諾基亞 (NOK) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nokia's fourth-quarter and full-year 2025 results call. I'm David Mulholland, Head of Nokia Investor Relations. And today with me is Justin Hotard, our President and CEO; along with Marco Wiren, our CFO.

女士們、先生們，早安。歡迎參加諾基亞2025年第四季及全年業績電話會議。我是諾基亞投資者關係主管大衛·穆爾霍蘭德。今天和我在一起的是我們的總裁兼執行長賈斯汀·霍塔德，以及我們的財務長馬可·維倫。

Before we get started, a quick disclaimer. During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements regarding our future business and financial performance, and these statements are predictions that involve risks and uncertainties.

在開始之前，先做一個簡短的免責聲明。在本次電話會議中，我們將對未來的業務和財務表現做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述是預測，涉及風險和不確定性。

Actual results may, therefore, differ materially from the results we currently expect. Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We've identified such risks in the Risk Factor section of our Annual Report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

因此，實際結果可能與我們目前預期的結果有重大差異。造成這種差異的因素既包括外部因素，也包括內部營運因素。我們在 20-F 表格年度報告的「風險因素」部分中列出了此類風險，該報告可在我們的投資者關係網站上查閱。

Within today's presentation, references to growth rates will mostly be on a constant currency and portfolio basis, and other financial items will be based on our comparable reporting. Please note that our Q4 report and a presentation that accompanies this call are published on our website.

在今天的報告中，成長率的提及將主要基於固定匯率和投資組合，其他財務項目將基於我們的可比較報告。請注意，我們的第四季報告和本次電話會議的簡報已發佈在我們的網站上。

The report includes both reported and comparable financial results and reconciliation between the two. In terms of the agenda for today, Justin will go through our key messages from the quarter, then Marco will go through the financial performance, and then we'll move on to Q&A.

該報告包括已公佈的財務結果和可比較財務結果，以及兩者之間的調節表。今天的議程安排如下：賈斯汀將介紹本季度的主要信息，然後馬爾科將介紹財務業績，之後我們將進入問答環節。

With that, let me hand over to Justin.

接下來，我會把麥克風交給賈斯汀。

Hello, everyone, and thank you, David. Overall, our fourth quarter performance was in line with our expectations, reflecting disciplined execution across the business.

大家好，謝謝你，大衛。整體而言，我們第四季的業績符合預期，反映了公司各部門嚴謹的執行力。

Net sales grew 3% in the quarter to EUR6.1 billion, with operating profit of EUR1 billion and free cash flow of EUR0.2 billion. For the full year, net sales were EUR19.9 billion and operating profit was EUR2 billion, slightly above the midpoint of our guidance. Free cash flow conversion of 72% was also consistent with our guidance.

本季淨銷售額成長 3% 至 61 億歐元，營業利潤為 10 億歐元，自由現金流為 2 億歐元。全年淨銷售額為 199 億歐元，營業利潤為 20 億歐元，略高於我們預期的中點。72%的自由現金流轉換率也符合我們的預期。

Stepping back, 2025 was a foundational year in repositioning Nokia for long-term value creation. We strengthened our portfolio with the acquisition of Infinera, simplified our operating model, and set a clear strategy at our Capital Markets Day to focus the company on the areas where we see opportunities for differentiation, scale, and sustainable market leadership.

回顧過去，2025 年是諾基亞重新定位以實現長期價值創造的關鍵一年。我們透過收購 Infinera 加強了我們的產品組合，簡化了我們的營運模式，並在資本市場日上製定了明確的策略，使公司專注於我們認為有機會實現差異化、規模化和永續市場領導地位的領域。

Now to give you a bit more detail, let me first turn to Network Infrastructure. In the fourth quarter, net sales grew 7%, driven by optical networks, which grew by 17%. Order intake was solid across both optical and IP networks with a book-to-bill above 1, supported by particularly strong demand from AI and cloud customers.

現在為了更詳細地說明情況，我先來談談網路基礎設施。第四季淨銷售額成長7%，主要得益於光網路業務成長17%。光纖網路和 IP 網路的訂單量都很穩定，訂單出貨比超過 1，這主要得益於人工智慧和雲端客戶的強勁需求。

For the full year 2025, we delivered EUR2.4 billion in orders from AI and cloud customers. This reinforces our view that optical networking will become an even more critical part of the infrastructure to support the AI super cycle, and we are investing to capture near-term demand, while maintaining a long-term perspective on the opportunity.

2025 年全年，我們向人工智慧和雲端客戶交付了 24 億歐元的訂單。這進一步印證了我們的觀點，即光網路將成為支援人工智慧超級週期的基礎設施中更關鍵的一部分，我們正在進行投資以滿足近期需求，同時保持對這一機會的長期展望。

In Optical, our 800-gig ZR and ZR+ pluggable products are shipping with initial units performing well in the field. We now have multiple design wins and are supplying into scale deployments. Our focus is on ramping production to meet the strong demand we see in the market.

在光纖領域，我們的 800G ZR 和 ZR+ 可插拔產品已開始出貨，首批產品在現場表現良好。我們目前已贏得多個設計項目，並正在大規模部署中。我們的重點是提高產量，以滿足市場上強勁的需求。

In IP Networks, we made progress on our expansion into data center switching. We launched two new products in the quarter, the 7220 IXR-H6 switching platform powered by Broadcom's TH6 and our Agentic AI solution for event-driven automation management, which reduces network downtime by 96%. We also secured a design win for our next-generation data center switching platform.

在 IP 網路領域，我們在資料中心交換的擴展方面取得了進展。本季我們推出了兩款新產品，分別是採用博通TH6晶片的7220 IXR-H6交換平台，以及用於事件驅動自動化管理的Agentic AI解決方案，該方案可將網路停機時間減少96%。我們也成功中標了下一代資料中心交換平台的設計專案。

These are encouraging steps, and we continue to believe revenue will ramp over time as we expand our presence in this rapidly growing market. In our mission-critical enterprise customer segment, book-to-bill was well above 1 in Q4, supported by a growing pipeline from both new and existing customers.

這些都是令人鼓舞的舉措，我們仍然相信，隨著我們在這個快速成長的市場中擴大業務，收入會隨著時間的推移而逐步成長。在我們面向關鍵任務型企業客戶群中，第四季訂單出貨比遠高於 1，這得益於新舊客戶不斷成長的業務管道。

Turning to Fixed Networks. Performance was stable year on year in Q4. As discussed at our Capital Markets Day, we are deprioritizing certain customer premises equipment products where we do not have meaningful differentiation, and which dilute margins. In Q4, our fiber OLT business grew 16% year over year, offset by declines in these areas, I just referenced, that we are deemphasizing. This resulted in overall flat performance for Fixed Networks.

轉向固定網路。第四季業績與去年同期相比保持穩定。正如我們在資本市場日上所討論的那樣，我們正在降低某些客戶駐地設備產品的優先級，因為我們沒有明顯的差異化優勢，而且這些產品會稀釋利潤率。第四季度，我們的光纖 OLT 業務年增 16%，但被我剛才提到的、我們正在減少投入的這些領域的下滑所抵消。這導致固定網路的整體效能持平。

As I announced at our Capital Markets Day on January 1, we brought together core software, radio networks, and technology standards to form our new Mobile Infrastructure segment. This structure is designed to sharpen accountability, improve profitability, and position the business for long-term technology leadership.

正如我在 1 月 1 日的資本市場日上宣布的那樣，我們將核心軟體、無線網路和技術標準整合在一起，形成了我們新的行動基礎設施部門。這種結構旨在加強問責制，提高獲利能力，並使企業在長期技術領導方面佔據優勢。

Core Software, formerly a part of Cloud and Network services, is leveraging our differentiated cloud-native core network stack to grow faster than the market and continue improving profitability. During the quarter, we won a 5G core deal with Telia and announced the collaboration with Bharti Airtel on Nokia's Network as Code API platform. We now have more than 75 partners using the platform, including 43 telcos.

核心軟體（原為雲端和網路服務的一部分）利用我們差異化的雲端原生核心網路堆疊，實現了比市場更快的成長，並持續提高獲利能力。本季度，我們贏得了與 Telia 的 5G 核心網合同，並宣布與 Bharti Airtel 在諾基亞的網路即代碼 API 平台上展開合作。目前已有超過 75 家合作夥伴使用該平台，其中包括 43 家電信公司。

Radio Networks, formerly a part of Mobile Networks, focused on disciplined execution in a largely stable market. We continue to invest to deliver 5G advanced and O-RAN solutions while innovating to establish a longer-term leadership position in 6G and AI-native networks.

無線網路（原為行動網路的一部分）專注於在相對穩定的市場中嚴格執行。我們將繼續投資，提供 5G 先進技術和 O-RAN 解決方案，同時不斷創新，以在 6G 和 AI 原生網路中建立長期的領導地位。

A key pillar of our strategy is co-innovation. And in Q4, we announced our partnership with NVIDIA. We continue to remain on track to begin trials and proofs-of-concept on AI-RAN later this year. We also announced a market share expansion deal with Telecom Italia, along with contract extensions with Telefonica Germany and SoftBank.

協同創新是我們策略的關鍵支柱。第四季度，我們宣布與英偉達建立合作關係。我們仍按計劃於今年稍後開始 AI-RAN 的試驗和概念驗證。我們也宣布與義大利電信達成市場份額擴張協議，並與德國電信和軟銀續約合約。

Technology standards remains focused on securing long-term monetization of Nokia's patent assets. We signed several deals in Q4 and continue to maintain a contracted net sales run rate of approximately EUR1.4 billion. At our Capital Markets Day, we also announced the creation of Nokia Defense, a new incubation unit that will serve as the central R&D hub and go-to-market for our defense portfolio.

技術標準仍著重於確保諾基亞專利資產的長期貨幣化。我們在第四季度簽署了幾項協議，並繼續保持約 14 億歐元的合約淨銷售額運行率。在我們的資本市場日上，我們也宣布成立諾基亞防務，這是一個新的孵化部門，將作為我們防務產品組合的中央研發中心和市場推廣機構。

Our priority is to deliver defense-grade solutions based on Nokia's Mobile and Network Infrastructure technologies for Finland and other NATO countries. Nokia Defense also includes Nokia Federal Solutions in the US and includes the technology we acquired from Phoenix Group in 2024.

我們的首要任務是為芬蘭和其他北約國家提供基於諾基亞行動和網路基礎設施技術的國防級解決方案。Nokia Defense 還包括美國的 Nokia Federal Solutions，以及我們在 2024 年從 Phoenix Group 收購的技術。

Based on feedback from customers, we see growing demand for our 4G and 5G technology in military environments, both for national security and tactical applications. This is an area where we are continuing to invest, and we will share updates as we make further progress.

根據客戶的回饋，我們看到，無論是在國家安全還是戰術應用方面，軍事環境對我們的 4G 和 5G 技術的需求都在不斷增長。我們將繼續在這個領域進行投資，並將隨著進展的進展與大家分享最新資訊。

Finally, in Q4, we closed the transaction to take full ownership of our joint venture in China, Nokia Shanghai Bell. This gives us greater operational flexibility, and we will bring it into full alignment with Nokia's global operating model.

最後，在第四季度，我們完成了對我們在中國的合資企業諾基亞上海貝爾的全面收購。這將賦予我們更大的營運靈活性，我們將使其與諾基亞的全球營運模式完全保持一致。

As a part of that integration, we expect to deliver approximately EUR200 million of run rate cost synergies with integration costs of approximately EUR350 million to EUR400 million over a period of 24 to 36 months.

作為整合的一部分，我們預計在 24 至 36 個月內，透過整合成本約 3.5 億至 4 億歐元，實現約 2 億歐元的年度成本協同效應。

Turning to '26. Looking ahead, our focus is on disciplined execution to capture growth in AI and cloud and increase efficiency while we're building a high-performance culture across Team Nokia. We now have fewer, clearer priorities, a simplified operating model and a strategy we are executing with speed and accountability.

轉至 26 年。展望未來，我們的重點是嚴謹執行，以抓住人工智慧和雲端運算領域的成長機遇，提高效率，同時在諾基亞團隊內部建立高績效文化。我們現在有了更少但更清晰的優先事項、更簡化的營運模式以及我們正在快速且負責地執行的策略。

Network Infrastructure remains our primary growth engine, particularly Optical and IP Networks, where we see strong structural demand. In Mobile Infrastructure, our focus is on gross margin and efficiency, while we continue to invest in our portfolio for competitiveness and market share in 5G and to transform the business for long-term success in areas such as AI native networks and 6G. From a financial perspective, in 2026, we are targeting an operating profit in the range of EUR2 billion to EUR2.5 billion.

網路基礎設施仍然是我們的主要成長引擎，特別是光纖網路和 IP 網絡，我們看到了強勁的結構性需求。在行動基礎設施領域，我們專注於毛利率和效率，同時我們繼續投資於我們的產品組合，以提高在 5G 領域的競爭力和市場份額，並推動業務轉型，以在人工智慧原生網路和 6G 等領域取得長期成功。從財務角度來看，我們預計到 2026 年，營業利潤將在 20 億歐元至 25 億歐元之間。

At our Capital Markets Day, we outlined a series of KPIs to illustrate how our strategic direction translates into financial outcomes. Let me revisit those and what we expect in 2026.

在我們的資本市場日上，我們概述了一系列關鍵績效指標，以說明我們的策略方向如何轉化為財務成果。讓我重新檢視一下這些問題以及我們對 2026 年的預期。

Our first KPI is to deliver 6% to 8% compound annual growth in network infrastructure between 2025 and 2028 on a constant currency and portfolio basis and 10% to 12% in the combined Optical and IP Networks businesses.

我們的首要關鍵績效指標是，在 2025 年至 2028 年期間，以固定匯率和投資組合計算，網路基礎設施實現 6% 至 8% 的複合年增長率，光纖和 IP 網路業務合併後實現 10% 至 12% 的複合年增長率。

In 2026, we expect growth rates in both cases to be in line with these long-term targets. As expected, the product prioritization decisions we have taken will limit growth in Fixed Networks, while we expect growth in our Fiber OLT portfolio to continue to occur due to strong underlying demand.

預計到 2026 年，這兩種情況的成長率都將與這些長期目標保持一致。正如預期的那樣，我們採取的產品優先決策將限制固定網路業務的成長，而由於強勁的潛在需求，我們預計光纖 OLT 產品組合將繼續成長。

Our second KPI is to expand Network Infrastructure operating margin to 13% to 17% by 2028. This is compared to the 9.5% achieved in 2025. In 2026, we expect measured margin expansion as we ramp new products and continuing investing in the long-term growth opportunity we see in the business.

我們的第二個關鍵績效指標是到 2028 年將網路基礎設施營運利潤率提高到 13% 至 17%。相比之下，2025 年的實現率為 9.5%。2026 年，隨著新產品的推出和對我們看到的業務長期成長機會的持續投資，我們預計利潤率將穩定成長。

The next two KPIs relate to Mobile Infrastructure gross margin and operating profit. In 2026, we continue to expect some top-line headwinds from prior contract losses, but otherwise, a stable market environment. Our focus is to continue to target at least EUR1.5 billion in operating profit, consistent with our performance in 2025.

接下來的兩個關鍵績效指標與行動基礎設施毛利率和營業利益有關。2026 年，我們預計先前合約損失仍會對營收造成一些不利影響，但除此之外，市場環境將保持穩定。我們的目標是繼續實現至少 15 億歐元的營業利潤，與我們 2025 年的業績保持一致。

As announced at our CMD on January 1, we have moved four businesses into a new unit called Portfolio Businesses. This includes our Fixed Wireless Access Customer Premises Equipment, and Site Operations businesses, both from Fixed Networks, our Microwave Radio business from Mobile Networks, and the Enterprise Campus Edge business from Cloud and Network Services.

正如我們在 1 月 1 日的 CMD 會議上所宣布的那樣，我們已將四項業務轉移到一個名為「投資組合業務」的新部門。這包括我們的固定無線接取客戶駐地設備和站點營運業務（均來自固定網路）、我們的微波無線電業務（來自行動網路）以及企業園區邊緣業務（來自雲端和網路服務）。

In 2025, these businesses generated net sales of EUR850 million and an operating loss of EUR97 million. In 2026, our target is to conclude a future direction for each of them. We currently assume a lower operating loss in 2026 versus 2025.

2025 年，這些企業實現了 8.5 億歐元的淨銷售額和 9,700 萬歐元的營業虧損。2026年，我們的目標是為它們每個人確定未來的發展方向。我們目前預計 2026 年的營業虧損將低於 2025 年。

For Group Common, we expect costs of approximately EUR150 million in 2026 compared with EUR190 million in 2025. Overall, we see 2026 as a year where we will make meaningful progress towards our long-term targets.

對於集團共同利益，我們預計 2026 年的成本約為 1.5 億歐元，而 2025 年的成本約為 1.9 億歐元。整體而言，我們認為 2026 年我們將朝著長期目標取得實質進展。

With that, let me turn over to Marco to walk you through the financials in more detail. Marco?

接下來，我會把麥克風交給馬可，讓他更詳細地為大家講解一下財務狀況。馬可？

Thank you, Justin, and hello from my side as well. As Justin mentioned, we delivered a fourth quarter, which was in line with our expectations and guidance.

謝謝你，賈斯汀，我也向你問好。正如賈斯汀所提到的那樣，我們第四季的業績符合我們的預期和指導。

Net sales were EUR6.1 billion, that's up 3% on the prior year. Gross margin was 48.1%, an improvement of 90 basis points, driven by improvements in Mobile Networks and Cloud and Network Services.

淨銷售額為61億歐元，較上年成長3%。毛利率為 48.1%，提高了 90 個基點，主要得益於行動網路、雲端服務和網路服務的改善。

Operating margin was 17.3%, and this is 90 basis points below the prior year, impacted primarily by increased investments in growth areas, including the Infinera acquisition. We generated EUR226 million of free cash flow and ended the quarter with EUR3.4 billion of net cash.

營業利益率為 17.3%，比前一年下降了 90 個基點，主要原因是成長領域的投資增加，包括收購 Infinera。我們產生了 2.26 億歐元的自由現金流，本季末淨現金為 34 億歐元。

Let's turn to the business groups now and starting with Network Infrastructure, where net sales grew 7%. In quarter four, AI & Cloud customers accounted for 16% of our net sales and 30% of Optical Networks. The book-to-bill for the overall segment was above 1 with strength in IP and Optical Networks.

現在讓我們來看看各個業務部門，首先是網路基礎設施部門，該部門的淨銷售額增長了 7%。第四季度，人工智慧和雲端客戶占我們淨銷售額的 16%，光網路客戶佔 30%。整個業務部門的訂單出貨比高於 1，其中 IP 和光網路業務表現強勁。

Gross margin declined by 80 basis points to 44.6%. Operating margin was impacted by lower gross margin, along with the increased growth-related investments in R&D and the costs associated with the acquisition of Infinera.

毛利率下降80個基點至44.6%。營業利益率受到毛利率下降、研發成長相關投資增加、收購 Infinera 相關成本的影響。

And then, let's go to Cloud and Network Services, where we saw a decline by 4% in the quarter, and this was mainly due to a different phasing of revenue recognition this year. The business delivered 6% of net sales growth for the full year 2025.

接下來，我們來看看雲端和網路服務，該業務在本季下降了 4%，這主要是由於今年的收入確認階段有所不同。該業務在 2025 年全年實現了 6% 的淨銷售額成長。

Gross margin increased 650 basis points, partly as a result of the reversal of a provision of EUR37 million in the quarter. So even without this benefit, we would have seen an improvement in gross margin. Operating margin also increased by 470 basis points with improvement in gross margin supported by reduced operating expenses.

毛利率成長了 650 個基點，部分原因是本季衝回了 3,700 萬歐元的撥備。因此，即使沒有這項收益，我們也會看到毛利率的增加。營業利潤率也提高了 470 個基點，毛利率的提高得益於營運費用的減少。

And then Mobile Networks, net sales increased by 6%, and this was driven by growth in Middle East and Africa, Japan, and Indonesia. Full year net sales were stable and consistent with our expectations.

其次，行動網路業務淨銷售額成長了 6%，這主要得益於中東和非洲、日本以及印尼市場的成長。全年淨銷售額穩定，符合我們的預期。

Gross margin was 40.1% due to more favorable mix and lower indirect costs. For the full year, gross margin was 37%. Operating margin was 11.3% in the quarter, reflecting the higher gross margin as well as the impact of lower operating expenses benefiting from the ongoing cost saving program.

由於產品組合更有利，間接成本降低，毛利率達 40.1%。全年毛利率為37%。本季營業利潤率為 11.3%，反映了較高的毛利率以及持續的成本節約計劃帶來的營運費用降低的影響。

In Nokia Technologies, net sales declined by 17% in the quarter. Catch-up sales in this quarter were lower than the previous year, and we signed several new deals in quarter four, and our annual net sales run rate remains at approximately EUR1.4 billion. Operating profit was impacted by a EUR20 million impairment charge, and this is related to a prior asset purchase, which we deem to have minimal future value in the context of our product portfolio.

諾基亞技術公司本季淨銷售額下降了 17%。本季追趕性銷售額低於去年同期，我們在第四季度簽署了幾項新協議，我們的年度淨銷售額運行率仍約為 14 億歐元。營業利潤受到 2000 萬歐元減損支出的影響，這與先前的資產購買有關，我們認為該資產在我們的產品組合中未來價值極低。

Now let's look at the net sales by region. And as you can see here, in North America, we saw strong growth in Networks Infrastructure, whilst Cloud and Network Services and Mobile Networks declined. In APAC, Japan and Indonesia grew, while we saw declines in India and Greater China. And excluding Nokia Technologies, Europe grew 4% with strength in Network Infrastructure. Middle East and Africa grew in both Mobile Networks and Network Infrastructure.

現在我們來看看各地區的淨銷售額。正如您在這裡看到的，在北美，網路基礎設施實現了強勁增長，而雲端運算、網路服務和行動網路則出現了下滑。在亞太地區，日本和印尼實現了成長，而印度和大中華區則出現了下滑。除諾基亞科技公司外，歐洲經濟成長4%，網路基礎建設產業表現強勁。中東和非洲的行動網路和網路基礎設施均實現了成長。

And then regarding cash, we ended the quarter with a net cash position of EUR3.4 billion and the free cash flow was positive EUR226 million and ending the year with a conversion rate of 72%, which is within our guided range of 50% to 80%. And in the quarter, cash increased as a result of the NVIDIA equity investment, which was EUR0.9 billion. And we also completed the acquisition of the NSB shares, which impacted cash by EUR0.5 billion.

至於現金方面，本季末我們的淨現金部位為 34 億歐元，自由現金流為正 2.26 億歐元，年末現金轉換率為 72%，介於我們 50% 至 80% 的預期範圍內。本季度，由於對英偉達的股權投資，現金增加，金額達 9 億歐元。我們也完成了對 NSB 股份的收購，這使現金減少了 5 億歐元。

And this equates to 50% of the net cash in the joint venture, which we paid to the other joint venture equity owner and was consistent with the liability we had already recorded on our balance sheet. We now fully own our operations in China, and that will give us a greater operational flexibility going forward to manage the business, just like Justin mentioned.

這相當於合資企業淨現金的 50%，我們已將其支付給合資企業的另一股權所有者，這與我們已在資產負債表上記錄的負債一致。我們現在完全擁有在中國的業務，這將使我們在未來擁有更大的營運彈性來管理業務，正如賈斯汀所提到的。

And today, we have also published recast financials based on the new operating structure, we have implemented at the start of the year. And there are a couple of things that I wanted to highlight to help you understand these figures.

今天，我們也根據年初實施的新營運結構發布了重述後的財務報表。為了幫助大家理解這些數據，我想重點強調幾點。

You will see some differences in the net sales compared to our prior reporting, reflecting those units being moved into the new Portfolio Businesses segment, as Justin explained earlier.

與我們先前的報告相比，淨銷售額會有一些差異，這反映出這些單位被轉移到了新的投資組合業務部門，正如賈斯汀之前解釋的那樣。

In Group Common, the recast cost base for '25 is EUR180 million as we have reallocated approximately EUR193 million of the cost to the primary operating segments to better reflect the nature of these costs.

集團共同體方面，2025 年的重述成本基數為 1.8 億歐元，因為我們已將約 1.93 億歐元的成本重新分配到主要經營部門，以更好地反映這些成本的性質。

And as discussed at our Capital Markets Day, the operating segments are expected to drive efficiencies in the organizations to mitigate those costs over time that we have transferred to them. However, this reallocation have a short-term impact on the segment profitability in NI and MI.

正如我們在資本市場日上所討論的那樣，我們期望各個營運部門能夠提高組織效率，從而隨著時間的推移減輕我們轉移給他們的成本。然而，這種重新分配會對北愛爾蘭和中愛爾蘭的業務獲利能力產生短期影響。

And finally, Justin already introduced our new 2026 financial outlook, but I just wanted to share some comments on additional modeling assumptions for this year.

最後，賈斯汀已經介紹了我們新的 2026 年財務展望，但我只想就今年的其他建模假設分享一些評論。

For quarter one, historic seasonality would imply a 24% sequential decline in our net sales, excluding Nokia Technologies. Considering the above normal seasonality we've seen in quarter four 2025, we currently expect quarter one 2026 net sales to decline somewhat more than normal seasonality would imply. We also assume the operating margin to be only slightly better than the prior year.

根據歷史季節性因素，第一季我們的淨銷售額（不包括諾基亞科技公司）將較上季下降 24%。考慮到我們在 2025 年第四季看到的上述正常季節性，我們目前預計 2026 年第一季的淨銷售額將比正常季節性所暗示的下降幅度略大。我們也假設營業利潤率僅比上年略有提高。

Then for the full year of '26, we expect comparable financial income and expenses of between positive EUR50 million to EUR150 million. And we assume a comparable income tax rate of around 26% and 27%, with a slight increase related to the regional mix of profit generation.

那麼，對於 2026 年全年，我們預計可比財務收入和支出將在 5,000 萬歐元至 1.5 億歐元之間。我們假設所得稅率在 26% 到 27% 之間，並根據區域利潤組成略有增加。

Cash tax outflows are expected to be approximately EUR500 million. And we are planning for CapEx of between EUR900 million and EUR1 billion as we invest in additional manufacturing capacity for Optical Networks, along with some real estate renewal projects.

預計現金稅收支出約5億歐元。我們計劃投入 9 億歐元至 10 億歐元的資本支出，用於投資增加光網路製造能力以及一些房地產更新項目。

And finally, we expect free cash flow conversion of between 55% to 75%.

最後，我們預期自由現金流轉換率在 55% 到 75% 之間。

With that, let me hand it back to David for Q&A.

那麼，現在把問題交還給大衛，讓他來回答大家的問題。

Thank you, Marco and Justin for the presentations. Alicia, could you please give the instructions for the Q&A session as a reminder? And as a courtesy to others in the queue, if you could please limit yourself to one question and a brief follow-up. Alicia, please go ahead with the instructions.

感謝Marco和Justin的精彩演講。艾莉西亞，請你提醒一下問答環節的規則好嗎？為了不影響排隊的其他顧客，請您盡量只提一個問題，並簡要地跟進一下。艾莉西亞，請按照指示操​​作。

(Operator Instructions) I will now hand the call back to Mr. Mulholland.

（操作員指示）我現在將把電話轉回給穆爾霍蘭先生。

Alex Duval, Goldman Sachs.

Alex Duval，高盛集團。

Yes. Good morning. everyone, and thank you for the question. Couple of quick questions. Firstly, on optical, it grew 20% in the quarter, but it seems you're saying it will only grow 10% to 12% in full year '26. You reference good order momentum as well as a solid percentage contribution from AI, so I wondered to what degree your guidance for the segment reflects conservatism?

是的。各位早安，感謝大家的提問。幾個簡單的問題。首先，就光學領域而言，該季度增長了 20%，但你似乎認為它在 2026 年全年只會增長 10% 到 12%。您提到了良好的訂單動能以及人工智慧帶來的可觀貢獻率，所以我想知道您對該板塊的指引在多大程度上體現了保守主義？

And secondly, as a brief follow-up, you're guiding to a somewhat sub-seasonal trend into the first quarter of the group. I wonder to what degree that's just normalization of a better than seasonal 4Q or whether there are other factors to take into account? Many thanks.

其次，作為簡要的後續，您引導我們進入該組第一季度，呈現出一種略微低於季節性的趨勢。我想知道這在多大程度上只是第四季業績好於往年同期水準的正常化結果，還是還有其他因素需要考慮？非常感謝。

Yeah. Sure. So, Alex, good to hear from you and let me answer your first question. Yeah. You're right, we obviously grew 17% in Q4 on optical networking. When you look at our optical networking business, we are being balanced on the 10% to 12% across IP and optical networking as you said. What I would also emphasize is we are still transitioning from a base that was -- it was still very telco-centric in '25, so 70/30.

是的。當然。亞歷克斯，很高興收到你的來信，讓我來回答你的第一個問題。是的。沒錯，我們在第四季光網路業務確實成長了 17%。正如你所說，從我們的光網路業務來看，IP網路和光網路業務的份額在10%到12%之間保持平衡。我還要強調的是，我們仍在從一個以電信為中心的基礎向另一個基礎過渡，在 2025 年，電信業佔比為 70/30。

And if you think about where we were before that, certainly before the Infinera acquisition, significantly telco-centric, so we're building off that base, we're excited about the order momentum, and then of course, in parallel, we're working to scale production. So I think as you and I have talked about, we want to be disciplined in our execution and our predictability. And so, therefore, that's why we've got it the way we have.

想想我們之前的情況，尤其是在收購 Infinera 之前，我們的業務主要集中在電信領域，所以我們現在正以此為基礎發展，我們對訂單勢頭感到興奮，當然，與此同時，我們也在努力擴大生產規模。所以，正如你我之前討論過的，我們希望在執行和可預測性方面保持嚴謹。所以，這就是我們現在所處境況的原因。

But I continue to be very optimistic about this business and the long-term opportunity for some of the factors like scale across networking, the demand we're seeing in overall fiber, some of the recent announcements in this area. So I think this is a place where absolutely it's a strategic priority for us. Absolutely, it's a focus of capital allocation, and I believe it's a market that will be a significant player for many years ahead.

但我仍然對這項業務和長期發展機會持非常樂觀的態度，這得益於網路規模的擴大、我們看到的整體光纖需求，以及該領域最近的一些公告等因素。所以我認為這絕對是我們公司的策略重點。當然，這是資本配置的重點，我相信它將在未來許多年成為重要的市場參與者。

But balance on where we are today, given the starting point that we had, which is really only three quarters deep in terms of aggressively pursuing the AI and cloud segment.

但就我們今天的處境而言，考慮到我們的起點，我們在積極進取人工智慧和雲端運算領域實際上只深入了四分之三。

For the second question, if you look, in the past as well when we have had a very strong and higher than normal seasonal in quarter four, we easily see a larger decline as well. And this is a little bit based on as well how our telco customers are buying and this is more, I would say, visible in Mobile Network area and also the telco customer base that when they have had a lot of purchases in quarter four, and usually the start of the year a little bit slower and that's why we guide that we see a somewhat slower -- somewhat lower than what we normally see.

對於第二個問題，如果你回顧過去，當第四季季節性需求非常強勁且高於正常水平時，我們也很容易看到更大的下降幅度。這在一定程度上也取決於我們的電信客戶的購買方式，而且我認為，這在行動網路領域以及電信客戶群中更為明顯，因為他們在第四季度購買了很多東西，而年初通常購買量會稍微減少一些，這就是為什麼我們預測，我們會看到比通常情況略微放緩——略微低於我們通常看到的情況。

Thank you, Alex. Richard Kramer, Arete.

謝謝你，亞歷克斯。理查德·克雷默，Arete。

Thanks very much. Justin, you're pledging to grow CapEx to really record levels of EUR900 million to EUR 1 billion. Do you have visibility in your order book of optical or IP orders or is leveraging this investment require additional unannounced wins with hyperscalers? And where are you in that sales cycle? And I have my follow-ups. Thanks.

非常感謝。賈斯汀，你承諾將資本支出成長到創紀錄的 9 億歐元至 10 億歐元水準。您能否在訂單簿中看到光纖電纜或IP訂單？或者，要充分利用這項投資，是否需要與超大規模資料中心達成更多未公開的合作？你目前處於銷售週期的哪個階段？我還有一些後續工作要做。謝謝。

Yeah. And obviously, Richard, when you think about CapEx investments and in manufacturing, in optical -- particularly, semiconductor manufacturing, as you're well aware, I'm sure this is not something you invest in in a year, and you start generating returns. So this is something where we're looking at the long-term trends and we've got a lot of confidence in the long-term market trend supported by the near-term demand that we see.

是的。顯然，理查德，當你考慮資本支出投資，以及在製造業、光學領域——特別是半導體製造業——進行投資時，正如你所知，我相信這不是你在一年內投資就能開始產生回報的事情。所以，我們著眼於長期趨勢，並且對長期市場趨勢充滿信心，我們看到的短期需求也支撐著這個趨勢。

Okay. And for Marco, we saw EUR300 million of restructuring in '25 and you're guiding to another EUR450 million in cash outflow. Can investors look forward into 2027 where you think these very heavy impacts on reported versus comparable earnings drop to immaterial revenue levels?

好的。對於 Marco 來說，我們在 2025 年看到了 3 億歐元的重組，而你預計還將有 4.5 億歐元的現金流出。投資人能否期待在 2027 年，屆時您認為這些對報告收益與可比較收益的巨大影響將降至微不足道的收入水平？

Yeah. I think as we announced already in '23 October that we have this cost-cutting program and efficiency program. And there, we laid out also the different years until '26 where we have this restructuring cost. And we guided by that time that we expect cost savings between EUR800 million to EUR1.2 billion, and we said that also the costs to generate these savings will be about the same and also the cash flow is following that. And usually, the cash flow considering that we have more footprint in the European area.

是的。我認為正如我們在 2023 年 10 月宣布的那樣，我們有這項成本削減計劃和效率提升計劃。在那裡，我們也列出了直到 2026 年的不同年份，以及我們產生的重組成本。當時我們預計可節省 8 億歐元至 12 億歐元的成本，並且我們也表示，實現這些節省的成本也將大致相同，現金流也將隨之變化。而且通常情況下，考慮到我們在歐洲地區的業務規模更大，現金流也會更好。

And that's usually -- there's delays on acting on those different cost actions that we are doing. And this is the reason why we see that '26 is more heavier on the cash outflow side as well. And -- but we are following the plan well according to what we have laid out earlier as well.

通常情況下，我們正在採取的各種成本控制措施都會出現延誤。這也是為什麼我們看到 2026 年的現金流出也更重的原因。而且——但是，我們也正在按照我們之前製定的計劃很好地執行。

Thanks, Richard. Simon Leopold, Raymond James.

謝謝你，理查。西蒙·利奧波德，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Thank you very much for taking the question. First thing, I wanted to ask about is particularly within the optical space scale across projects are new variant for data center interconnected. Your peers have discussed these projects. Can you elaborate on Nokia's position and how you envision this opportunity developing over the next few years? And then I've got a follow-up.

非常感謝您回答這個問題。首先，我想問的是，在光空間尺度上，各個項目中是否存在資料中心互連的新變體。你的同學已經討論過這些項目。您能否詳細闡述諾基亞的立場，以及您如何看待這項機會在未來幾年內的發展？然後我還有一個後續問題。

Yeah. Sure, Simon. Good to hear from you. Just a couple of things here. One, this is a space that we think is a part of the long-term trend on optics.

是的。當然可以，西蒙。很高興收到你的來信。這裡還有幾點要說明。第一，我們認為這是光學領域長期發展趨勢的一部分。

I mean, if you look at the long-term demand on optics, think of the drive around scale across right now as being one of the most significant near term. But obviously, then you have speeds, right? We've gone through the 400- and 800-gig transition very quickly. We're ramping on 800-gig multiple pluggable wins, as we've talked about, a lot of active customer conversations on that space, continued momentum in the market in terms of what we see.

我的意思是，如果你從長遠角度來看光學產品的需求，那麼目前圍繞著規模化發展的驅動力，可以說是近期最重要的驅動力之一。但很顯然，速度方面會有差異，對吧？我們很快就完成了 400G 和 800G 的過渡。正如我們之前討論過的，我們正在大力推進 800G 多插拔產品的成功，在這個領域有很多積極的客戶對話，就我們所看到的，市場勢頭依然強勁。

But then we expect that 1.6 and 3.2 will come. And when you look at that scale across is the tailwind for both the technology transitions and the demand. And then, of course, over time, we see scale out increasingly be an opportunity for coherent optics. So that's the tailwind we see.

但我們預計 1.6 和 3.2 版本將會到來。從這個規模來看，技術轉型和需求都將迎來順風。當然，隨著時間的推移，我們看到規模化發展越來越成為相干光學的機會。這就是我們看到的順風。

The other thing I would just reference as you think about this is routing for us, in particular, scale across is a tailwind for. So switching is much more about the data center racks, the spine-leaf architecture. But when you think about routing, that's another tailwind.

另外，在你考慮這個問題的時候，我想提一下路由方面的問題，特別是對我們來說，跨域擴展是一個有利因素。所以交換器更多的是關於資料中心機架和脊葉式架構。但從路線規劃的角度來看，這又是另一個有利因素。

But key thing for us right now is spending the time, doing the work, co-developing, co-innovating with our customers, making sure we're scaling production capacity to take advantage of this opportunity over the long term. And fundamentally, what I see is a much more mature and larger optical market, driven by the AI infrastructure build-out than we've seen in the past. And I think a much more mature in ecosystem as well.

但對我們來說，現在最重要的是花時間、努力工作，與客戶共同開發、共同創新，確保我們擴大生產能力，以便長期把握這個機會。從根本上講，我看到的是一個比以往更成熟、規模更大的光學市場，這主要得益於人工智慧基礎設施的建設。而且我認為生態系統也更成熟了。

So there's a lot of work to do for us as an ecosystem and as an industry, but I think a much bigger market, and that's absolutely why we're investing into it and why you see us leaning in on capital both in terms of CapEx, but also R&D capital in the space.

因此，作為一個生態系統和一個產業，我們還有很多工作要做，但我認為市場要大得多，這絕對是我們投資的原因，也是你會看到我們加大資本投入的原因，包括資本支出和研發資本。

Did you have a follow-up, Simon? Simon? No? I guess we'll move on.

西蒙，你還有後續問題嗎？西蒙？不？我想我們只能繼續前進了。

Sami Sarkomi, Danske Bank.

薩米·薩爾科米，丹麥銀行。

Thanks. You had 5% growth at IP Networks in '25. What needs to happen for this to step up? Are the bottlenecks related to product offering, customer logos, or design wins?

謝謝。2025年，IP Networks的成長率為5%。要讓這件事有進展，需要發生什麼事？瓶頸是與產品供應、顧客標誌還是設計方案的得標有關？

And then on timing, how much time do you think we need for improvements? Could it happen already this year as you have signed new customers during last year?

那麼，關於時間安排，您認為我們需要花多少時間來改進？鑑於你們去年已經簽下了新客戶，今年是否就能實現？

Hey, Sami. Thank you for that. Yeah, I would just say a couple of things here. First of all, we've talked about the fact that while we were well positioned post the integration of Infinera to go after the Optical Networking platform, this is a space where we've been even a little further behind. So it's been a big focus for me as we started -- as I started. And obviously, for David, as he took over.

嘿，薩米。謝謝。是的，我只想說幾點。首先，我們已經討論過，雖然在整合 Infinera 之後，我們有能力進軍光網路平台，但在這個領域，我們反而更加落後了。所以，從一開始──從我開始的時候──這都是我關注的重點。很顯然，對於接任的大衛來說也是如此。

And in fact, we just announced earlier this week that we have a new Head of IP Networking, Greg Dorai and Vach Kompella, who, for those of you that have been around this industry, know Vach, is an industry legend, he's retiring. But part of that in bringing in Vach's successor was looking for someone that had deep data center experience.

事實上，就在本週早些時候，我們宣布了新的 IP 網路主管 Greg Dorai 和即將退休的 Vach Kompella。對於在這個行業工作過的人來說，Vach 是一位行業傳奇人物。但引進 Vach 的繼任者，部分原因在於要找到一位擁有深厚資料中心經驗的人。

So the net of all of that is, as I said at CMD and even in some of our recent discussions with investors, this is a space where I think it's going to take us a little bit of time to see the growth. But I'm really, really pleased with the design win we had in Q4 that I referenced. I'm pleased with the order backlog.

所以綜上所述，正如我在 CMD 大會上以及最近與投資者的一些討論中所說，我認為這個領域需要一些時間才能看到成長。但我真的非常非常滿意我們在第四季度贏得的設計項目，我之前也提到過。我對目前的訂單積壓情況很滿意。

But I think this business needs a little bit of time to ramp. Absolutely a big tailwind as a part of the AI and data center build and encouraging progress on mission-critical where we play in select vertical markets that value scale, security, and availability, obviously, things we bring from our legacy in this space in telcos.

但我認為這家公司還需要一些時間才能步入正軌。這絕對是人工智慧和資料中心建設的一大助力，也促進了我們在特定垂直市場中開展的關鍵任務領域的進展，這些市場重視規模、安全性和可用性，顯然，這些都是我們從電信行業的傳統經驗中帶來的。

Did you have a quick follow-up, Sami?

薩米，你有什麼後續跟進嗎？

Okay. I'm wondering on the CapEx outlook, is this going to be like a multiyear undertaking, if you think about higher CapEx or just like one year thing?

好的。我想知道資本支出方面的情況，這會是一個持續多年的計畫（假設資本支出較高），還是只是一個為期一年的計畫？

Yeah. I think what we'll continue to do, Sami, on this, and I'll let Marco comment is, we're always going to show investment against the opportunity we see in the market. So I would look at this as in line with supporting the guidance we've given you for now and really in line on Optical Networking growth as we see it. So obviously, that's -- in the future, if we saw a different growth potential in Optical, we might give you a different view on CapEx.

是的。薩米，我認為我們將繼續這樣做，我讓馬可來評論，那就是我們將始終根據我們在市場中看到的機會進行投資。所以我認為這符合我們目前給你們的指導，也符合我們所看到的光網絡發展趨勢。所以很明顯，未來如果我們看到光學領域的成長潛力不同，我們可能會對資本支出提出不同的看法。

Marco, anything to add?

馬可，還有什麼要補充的嗎？

No, I -- just building over what you said that we definitely see opportunities, and that's why we believe that it's the right timing to invest more, to capture those opportunities and secure also that we have manufacturing facilities and capacities that are needed be able to deliver those demands that we see that especially in the optical side are increasing.

不，我——只是在你說的的基礎上補充一點，我們確實看到了機會，所以我們認為現在是加大投資、抓住這些機會並確保我們擁有必要的製造設施和產能來滿足我們看到的，尤其是在光學領域，不斷增長的需求的合適時機。

But still, it's not so that there's a huge CapEx investments compared to other data center investments. So these are still quite reasonable investments, and we believe that there's a very good return on those investments as well.

但即便如此，與其他資料中心投資相比，它的資本支出也不算龐大。所以這些仍然是相當合理的投資，而且我們相信這些投資也會有非常好的回報。

Thanks, Sami. Artem Beletski, SEB.

謝謝你，薩米。Artem Beletski，SEB。

Yes. Hi, and thank you for taking my questions. So I would like to pick your thoughts regarding recent news coming out from Brussels. So what comes to this Cybersecurity Act, the Digital Network Act. So how do you see those proposals impacting your business outlook, what comes to upcoming years?

是的。您好，感謝您回答我的問題。所以我想聽聽您對最近布魯塞爾傳出的消息有何看法。那麼，《網路安全法》和《數位網路法》又如何呢？那麼，您認為這些提案將如何影響您的業務前景，以及未來幾年的發展趨勢？

Look, I think on the Cybersecurity Act, the CSA, and the Digital Networks Act, DNA, look, first of all, we're pleased with this. I mean, this is -- these are some of the things we've been calling for. Certainly, since I started, I've been very vocal about.

你看，我認為關於網路安全法案（CSA）和數位網路法案（DNA），首先，我們對此感到滿意。我的意思是，這些正是我們一直以來所呼籲的。當然，自從我開始做這件事以來，我一直都非常積極地表達我的觀點。

I think the key thing on the Cybersecurity Act around trusted networks is seeing a few things. One is the clarity on replacement schedules. I also think it's important, as we've said, that there's support for network operators, this kind of replacement is a big lift.

我認為網路安全法案中關於可信任網路的關鍵在於要看到以下幾點。一是更換計劃的清晰度。正如我們所說，我認為為網路營運商提供支援也很重要，而這種更換工作是一項艱鉅的任務。

Now from a supplier perspective, this is well within our capacity. If you think about the pace at which we've deployed out -- deployed networks in India or even in North America in terms of upgrades, the network upgrades that are required in Europe are something well within our scope and capability and manufacturing capacity. But it's a complex technology project. So we think this is something that we recognize there's complexity and support.

從供應商的角度來看，這完全在我們的能力範圍之內。想想我們在印度甚至北美部署網路的速度，以及我們升級網路的速度，歐洲所需的網路升級完全在我們的能力範圍和製造能力之內。但這是一個複雜的技術項目。所以我們認為，我們認識到這件事的複雜性，也需要提供支援。

And our view is the urgency is now that we need to continue to move. And certainly, for our customers, they need to have clarity because where we're -- the platforms we're investing in today will be all the things that need to become 6G ready in the near future.

我們認為，當務之急是繼續前進。當然，對於我們的客戶來說，他們需要清楚了解情況，因為我們目前所投資的平台，在不久的將來都需要升級到 6G。

And if you think about what we talked -- we're talking about AI-RAN as an example of that, that is a great example of where if you buy an AirScale platform today, it's going to be upgradable to AI-RAN as we launch that platform.

如果你想想我們剛才討論的內容——我們以 AI-RAN 為例，這是一個很好的例子，說明如果你今天購買 AirScale 平台，隨著我們推出 AI-RAN 平台，它將可以升級到 AI-RAN。

And so that's the kind of opportunity we're making the investment decision now and having clarity now as an operator. As you run that project over a two- or three-year period, we think is particularly important, and that's why it requires support because, obviously, it's not in anybody's budgets to run an accelerated CapEx program amongst our customers.

所以，這就是我們現在做出投資決定並作為營運商獲得清晰認識的機會。鑑於該專案需要兩到三年的時間才能完成，我們認為這一點尤其重要，因此需要提供支持，因為很顯然，在我們的客戶中，沒有人會為加速資本支出計劃提供預算。

But it's also not just radio. We tend to focus on that. This is actually a really important opportunity for fiber networks and access networks and just as important, because fixed access networks are critical for consumer, they're critical for business.

但這不僅僅指廣播。我們往往更關注這一點。對於光纖網路和存取網路而言，這實際上是一個非常重要的機遇，而且同樣重要的是，由於固定接取網路對消費者至關重要，因此對企業也至關重要。

And then, of course, there's the transport networks and all the underlying infrastructure. So this is a pretty significant step. We're very pleased with it.

當然，還有交通網絡和所有相關的基礎設施。所以這是一個相當重要的步驟。我們對此非常滿意。

I also think when you link it to DNA and you look at some of the things around spectrum harmonization and you look at the opportunity in Europe, and this is something that I've been certainly vocal about, I was talking about last week in Davos is, this is an opportunity for Europe to reshape its long-term competitiveness, its long-term competitiveness in technology, its long-term competitiveness in infrastructure and innovation and ultimately, national security, sovereignty, and economic competitiveness. So I think this is really, really important.

我認為，當你將它與 DNA 聯繫起來，看看頻譜協調方面的一些事情，看看歐洲的機會時（這一點我一直都在公開談論，上週在達沃斯我也談到了），這對歐洲來說是一個重塑其長期競爭力的機會，包括技術方面的長期競爭力、基礎設施和創新方面的長期競爭力，並最終重塑國家安全、主權和經濟競爭力。所以我認為這真的非常非常重要。

And you can just look back at the Internet super cycle to see where the winners in the Internet Super Cycle came from as a result of significant infrastructure investment. When you think about Europe and AI, Europe is incredibly well positioned. It's well positioned because you've got a great industrial automation technologies, obviously, manufacturing industries like automotive and you've got great talent in Europe.

回顧網路超級週期，你會發現，由於大量的基礎設施投資，網路超級週期的贏家都來自哪裡。談到歐洲和人工智慧，歐洲的地位非常有利。歐洲的優勢在於擁有強大的工業自動化技術，以及汽車等製造業，歐洲人才濟濟。

And obviously, as being our largest talent base in our -- in the company, we want to see more investment here so we can continue to support the talent here, building technology for Europe to support Europe, and see a broader ecosystem develop.

顯然，作為我們公司最大的人才庫，我們希望在這裡看到更多的投資，以便我們能夠繼續支持這裡的人才，為歐洲建立技術以支持歐洲，並看到更廣泛的生態系統發展。

Did you have a quick follow-up, Artem?

阿爾捷姆，你還有後續跟進嗎？

Yes. I would like to ask a follow-up on Optical Networks. And could you maybe comment whether you see some supply-related constraints when it comes to growth? I recall from CMD, so you have been commenting about order growth year-to-date a bit more than 40%, and we do understand that the market fundamentals are really robust on that front.

是的。我想就光網路方面的問題進行後續探討。您能否談談您是否認為在成長方面存在一些與供應相關的限制因素？我記得在 CMD 會議上，您提到今年迄今的訂單成長率略高於 40%，我們也了解到，市場基本面在這方面確實非常強勁。

Yeah. Look, I think it's a great question, Artem. So first of all, obviously, if you think about this broader ecosystem, the one thing I would remind everybody is the consistent thing in the AI data center build, AI infrastructure build has been there have been constraints. There's been power constraints. There's been connectivity constraints. There's been computational silicon constraints. There's news of memory constraints right now.

是的。阿爾喬姆，我覺得你問的這個問題很好。首先，很顯然，如果你考慮這個更廣泛的生態系統，我想提醒大家的一點是，人工智慧資料中心建置、人工智慧基礎設施一直存在著一些限制。電力供應一直受到限制。網路連線有限制。計算能力一直受到矽的限制。目前有關於記憶體限制的消息。

One of the reasons I think when we look at this, we don't see the same dynamics of the telco and Internet bubble that you saw in the late '90s is because this infrastructure build has been consistently constrained. So what we see is, we do see supply constraints that's normal with this kind of scale and build. And obviously, part of our investments is not just in our own capacity but also in supporting the ecosystem and building its capability and capacity.

我認為，當我們審視這個問題時，沒有看到像 90 年代末電信和網路泡沫那樣的動態，其中一個原因是基礎設施建設一直受到限制。所以我們看到的是，供應限制是正常的，這在這種規模和建設中是正常的。顯然，我們的部分投資不僅用於提升我們自身的能力，還用於支持生態系統並建立其能力和規模。

And again, if you look at Optical, Optical is not nearly running at the kinds of volumes that you'd see that the microelectronics industry or the traditional computational electronics industry because it doesn't have the same consumer volume off the side of it that's driven a lot of the automation and capacity that's existed.

再看看光電子產業，你會發現它的產量遠不及微電子產業或傳統運算電子產業，因為它沒有像微電子產業或傳統運算電子產業那樣龐大的消費市場，而正是消費市場推動了這些產業的自動化和產能。

So all of these things need to be invested in. And again, this is why we think that the market has great long-term potential given the technology, but also a lot of ongoing investment that we and the entire ecosystem need to cultivate to make sure we can deliver on the long-term success. And it's part of why we think we're favorably positioned with our indium phosphide technology and manufacturing facility.

所以所有這些都需要投資。再次強調，正因如此，我們認為鑑於這項技術，市場具有巨大的長期潛力，但同時也需要我們和整個生態系統持續投入大量資金，以確保我們能夠實現長期的成功。這也是我們認為憑藉磷化銦技術和製造設施，我們擁有有利地位的部分原因。

Thanks, Artem. Daniel Djurberg, Handelsbanken.

謝謝你，阿爾捷姆。丹尼爾‧朱爾伯格，德國商業銀行。

Thank you, operator, and hi, guys. Yeah. On the Mobile Networks, it was clearly better than expected, and some decrease primarily due to North America. And can you comment a bit on North America? Are we comparing apples-with-apples now with regards to AT&T loss? And also, do you see any possible inroad again with AT&T with the 600 build, for example, with the FirstNet upgrades? Any comments would be grateful. Thanks.

謝謝接線員，大家好。是的。行動網路方面，情況明顯優於預期，部分網路效能下降主要是因為北美地區的情況。能否談談北美的情況？現在我們能否將AT&T的虧損情況與同類情況進行比較？另外，您認為透過 600 型號的機型，例如 FirstNet 升級，是否有可能再次與 AT&T 取得突破？歡迎提出任何意見。謝謝。

Yeah. Thank you, Daniel. Yeah. Just like you alluded to as well, in '26, we will see some headwinds from North America in the Radio Access Network side, considering the customer losses that we had, and that will have an impact.

是的。謝謝你，丹尼爾。是的。正如您所提到的，考慮到我們先前的客戶流失，2026 年我們在無線接取網路方面將會面臨來自北美的一些不利因素，這將會產生影響。

Otherwise, I would say that in market-wise, we see quite stable market in the Radio side. It's -- where we see growth is AI & Cloud in North America is extremely positive brands there right now when it comes to that segment.

否則，我認為從市場角度來看，廣播市場相當穩定。我們看到北美地區的人工智慧和雲端運算領域正在蓬勃發展，目前該領域的品牌前景非常樂觀。

Let me take AT&T. First of all, and just to remind everybody, AT&T is a very, very large, strategic, and important customer for us. They are a customer for us across core networks, fiber access. So if you think about NI and MI, they're a very important customer for us and a very strategic one, given the investments that they're making today and their networks. And we've talked about a little bit of that in the past as well.

讓我選AT&T吧。首先，提醒大家一下，AT&T 是我們非常非常重要、具有策略意義的大客戶。他們在核心網路和光纖接入方面都是我們的客戶。所以，如果你考慮一下 NI 和 MI，考慮到他們目前正在進行的投資以及他們的網絡，他們對我們來說是非常重要的客戶，也是非常具有戰略意義的客戶。我們過去也稍微討論過這個問題。

Look, from my standpoint, as I think about customer opportunities and market opportunities, we want to pursue every piece of profitable market share that we can. And if we're honored to be a part of their network in the future, we'll absolutely take that opportunity.

從我的角度來看，在考慮客戶機會和市場機會時，我們希望盡可能爭取每一個有利可圖的市場份額。如果未來我們有幸成為他們網路的一份子，我們一定會抓住這個機會。

Right now, our focus is on delivering on our commitments to them and to all of our customers. And as we said in the restructuring, as you heard from Raghav at CMD, becoming an easier company to deal with from a customer perspective, particularly for our telcos where we need to do more to be working with them around collaboration, co-innovation and making sure that we help them deliver the simplification and the operating leverage they need in their networks to deliver on their strategies.

目前，我們的重點是履行我們對他們以及所有客戶的承諾。正如我們在重組中所說，正如您從 CMD 的 Raghav 那裡聽到的那樣，我們要成為一家從客戶角度更容易合作的公司，特別是對於我們的電信公司而言，我們需要做更多的工作來與他們合作、共同創新，並確保我們幫助他們實現其網絡所需的簡化和運營槓桿，以實現其戰略目標。

Thanks, Daniel. Did you have a follow-up?

謝謝你，丹尼爾。您有後續跟進嗎？

Yeah. Perhaps just a short one on the book-to-bill on Optical and IP Networks being positive still. Can you give some more comments on those on a separate note, i.e. comparing them, the relative magnitude or something?

是的。或許可以簡單說說光纖和 IP 網路的訂單出貨率仍然保持積極態勢。您能否另附一份說明，對這些問題做一些補充說明，例如比較它們、它們的相對大小等等？

Each one is good. Each one is healthy on the book-to-bill. If you put them together, they're good. If you split them, they're good. We're not blending.

每個都很好。每筆帳面支出都很健康。把它們放在一起，效果很好。把它們分開，就很好。我們沒有融合。

Perfect. Thanks.

完美的。謝謝。

Thanks, Daniel. Terrence Tsui, Morgan Stanley.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。Terrence Tsui，摩根士丹利。

Thank you, David. Hi, Justin. Hi, Marco. I had a question around the operating guidance for the full year, please, of EUR2 billion to EUR2.5 billion. I would love if you can provide some color around the EUR500 million guidance range, please? You noted that 2025 was slightly ahead of the midpoint. So I'm just interested to learn about reasons to be a bit more optimistic, and reasons to a bit cautious in your thinking.

謝謝你，大衛。嗨，賈斯汀。你好，馬可。我有一個關於全年營運指引的問題，目標是 20 億歐元至 25 億歐元。如果您能對5億歐元的指導範圍提供一些細節信息，我將不勝感激？您指出 2025 年略微早於中點。所以我很想了解一下，有哪些理由讓我們更樂觀一些，又有哪些理由讓我們在思考時更謹慎。

And then the quick follow-up relates to Q1 guide. What FX are you assuming there? Are you using the spot of USD1.2? Thank you.

然後，快速跟進的內容與 Q1 指南有關。你假設的FX是什麼？你使用的是1.2美元的現貨價格嗎？謝謝。

Yeah. When it comes to the guidance, EUR2 billion to EUR2.5 billion, there's a couple of things that we mentioned also at the Capital Markets Day that we will have some new product launches during this year.

是的。關於20億歐元至25億歐元的業績指引，我們在資本市場日上也提到過，今年我們將推出一些新產品。

And always when you have new product introductions, there will be an impact on gross margin as well. And that's what we see. But of course, these product introductions are very important for our longer-term journey, and we see very good market opportunities going forward.

而且，每當推出新產品時，都會對毛利率產生影響。這就是我們所看到的。當然，這些產品的推出對我們的長期發展至關重要，我們看到了未來非常好的市場機會。

When it comes to the same opportunities, we also -- just like we have said earlier, we invest in more in our opportunities in AI & Cloud, which will have an impact on the OpEx as well. But we definitely see more opportunities going forward definitely in the AI & Cloud market side. And that's why it's important that we prepare ourselves for those opportunities.

對於同樣的機遇，我們也——正如我們之前所說——加大了對人工智慧和雲端運算領域機會的投資，這也會對營運支出產生影響。但我們認為，未來在人工智慧和雲端運算市場領域，肯定會有更多機會。所以，為這些機會做好準備至關重要。

But also, this is a transformational year. We are still doing a lot of changes and securing that we are very lean and mean and efficient machine and capture those opportunities in the market.

但同時，今年也是具有改變意義的一年。我們仍在進行大量變革，確保我們成為一台精簡且有效率、運作良好的機器，並抓住市場上的機會。

Yeah. Maybe I'll just add, Terence, I think when you think about the range, right, obviously, what we want to be is disciplined around our guidance and our execution and much more predictable. And I've talked about this quite a bit. Marco has talked about it quite a bit.

是的。特倫斯，我或許還要補充一點，我認為當你考慮範圍時，對吧，很明顯，我們希望在我們的指導和執行方面保持紀律性，並且更加可預測。我之前也多次談到這個問題。馬可已經多次談到這件事。

But that -- the recognition that we are also in two very different business cycles right now, tremendous growth in AI & Cloud, flat market in telco, emerging opportunity in defense and mission-critical enterprise.

但我們也意​​識到，目前我們正處於兩個截然不同的商業週期：人工智慧和雲端運算領域實現了巨大的成長，電信市場停滯不前，國防和關鍵任務型企業領域出現了新的機會。

So recognizing that the businesses are in a different cycle, the markets are in a different cycle, that's part of the balance of making sure that we're giving you visibility.

因此，要認識到企業處於不同的週期，市場處於不同的週期，這是確保我們為您提供透明度的平衡的一部分。

And obviously, should we see something that changes our visibility, we'll update it. But we want to give you as much visibility as possible and make sure that when we lay out targets, we're consistent, we're predictable, and much like we've done for two quarters, we get into a more consistent habit of that.

當然，如果我們發現任何可能改變我們可見性的內容，我們會進行更新。但我們希望盡可能讓您了解情況，並確保我們在設定目標時保持一致性、可預測性，就像我們過去兩個季度所做的那樣，養成更穩定的習慣。

And I'd just remind everybody that, that hasn't been our history, but it's a big part of where I would like to see us go as we go after these growth opportunities to make sure that we give you the visibility and we go do what we say we're going to do.

我只想提醒大家，雖然這並非我們的過往，但這是我們未來發展的重要方向之一，我們將抓住這些成長機遇，確保我們能夠讓大家看到我們的實力，並且說到做到。

The currency rate, we have USD1.18 in our estimate, and this is based on what we see right now. And if there's any changes in the currency, we will update as well. But remember that we have about at least half of the US revenues, for example, US flows are hedged for the full year.

我們估計目前的匯率為 1.18 美元，這是根據我們目前看到的匯率估算的。如果貨幣匯率有任何變動，我們也會及時更新。但請記住，我們至少擁有美國收入的一半，例如，美國資金流動已對全年進行了避險。

So if we just look a little bit the sensitivity, before hedging a [EUR0.02] move on the USD versus euro would imply an operating profit of EUR50 million change. But as I said, about half of that is hedged.

因此，如果我們稍微看一下敏感性，在對沖之前，美元兌歐元匯率每波動 0.02 歐元，就意味著營業利潤將變化 5000 萬歐元。但正如我所說，其中大約一半已經進行了避險。

Thanks, Terrence. Felix Henriksson, Nordea.

謝謝你，特倫斯。Felix Henriksson，北歐銀行。

Yeah. Thanks, David. Partly relating to the previous question on supply shortages. Are you expecting to encounter any headwinds from these rising memory prices on your gross margin? And can you just provide some color on your cost exposure to this trend? Thanks.

是的。謝謝你，大衛。部分內容與先前關於供應短缺的問題有關。您預計不斷上漲的記憶體價格會對您的毛利率造成任何不利影響嗎？您能否簡要說明一下，您在這一趨勢下的成本風險敞口是多少？謝謝。

Yeah. I would just say, overall, when you think about our bill of materials at a macro level across the company, this is not a huge part of our bill of materials. It's a portion, but it's not a material portion.

是的。我想說的是，總的來說，當你從宏觀層面考慮公司整體的物料清單時，這並不是我們物料清單中很大的一部分。這是一部分，但不是物質的一部分。

Second, in terms of supply and commitments, I think our focus right now is on making sure we continue to secure the supply based on the commitments we have, and we do have -- this is a place where we have long-term agreements.

其次，就供應和承諾而言，我認為我們目前的重點是確保我們繼續根據我們已有的承諾保障供應，而我們確實已經做出了承諾——在這個領域，我們達成了長期協議。

And then, of course, I think as you've heard in the industry, I think we expect this to be passed through to pricing. So from our perspective, this is a market effect. It's very consistent across the market. And so we'll address that.

當然，正如業內人士所聽到的，我們預計這些成本最終會反映在價格上。所以從我們的角度來看，這是市場效應。市場整體表現非常一致。所以我們會解決這個問題。

But overall, this isn't -- certainly, if you looked at our business overall, you'd say this is not a material part of our revenue, but an important one that we manage.

但總的來說，這並非——當然，如果你縱觀我們的整體業務，你會說這不是我們收入的重要組成部分，但卻是我們必須妥善管理的重要部分。

Did you have a quick follow-up, Felix?

菲利克斯，你還有後續跟進嗎？

Yeah. Just quickly on your balance sheet and net cash. I think the end of the year net cash implies around 17% of last 12-month net sales, which is slightly above the 10% to 15% range that you used to have historically. Are you happy with those levers? Or do you see anything that you would want to do with that setup?

是的。只需快速查看一下您的資產負債表和淨現金。我認為年底淨現金流約為過去 12 個月淨銷售額的 17%，略高於以往 10% 至 15% 的範圍。你對這些槓桿滿意嗎？或者，你覺得這套設備有什麼想做的事嗎？

Yeah. Thank you. When it comes to the capital allocation, framework is very clear for us. And whenever we see that we can invest more in R&D internally, so that's always our priority number one. And just like we alluded earlier as well, that we see opportunities in -- especially in AI & Cloud customer segment. So we are investing more there.

是的。謝謝。在資本配置方面，我們的框架非常清晰。每當我們發現可以增加內部研發投入時，研發始終是我們的首要任務。正如我們之前提到的那樣，我們看到了機會——尤其是在人工智慧和雲端運算客戶領域。因此，我們正在加大對該地區的投資。

The second priority we have is seeing that how can we strengthen our deliveries and our opportunities to capture those market trends through M&A.

我們第二個優先事項是思考如何加強我們的交付能力，以及如何透過併購來抓住這些市場趨勢的機會。

And the third one is the dividend. So we aim for recurring and stable and over time, growing in dividends.

第三項是股息。因此，我們的目標是實現持續、穩定且隨著時間而成長的股息。

And then the fourth is that if we deem to have excess cash, then we can consider share buybacks. So this framework is something we follow. And if there's any news, we will inform you as well.

第四點是，如果我們認為有多餘的現金，那麼我們可以考慮股票回購。所以，我們遵循的就是這個框架。如有任何消息，我們也會通知您。

Thanks, Felix. Emil Immonen, DNB Carnegie.

謝謝你，菲利克斯。埃米爾·伊莫寧，DNB 卡內基。

Hi, Marco, and hi, Justin. Thanks for taking my questions. I just had a question on the investment in the CapEx. It's quite a big step up. And I'm just wondering if it's all about increasing your capacity, how much would you say that your capacity is already utilized? So are you working at full capacity? Or how should we think about ramping up production and how you plan for that overall?

嗨，馬可，嗨，賈斯汀。謝謝您回答我的問題。我只是想問一下關於資本支出方面的投資問題。這是一個相當大的進步。我只是想知道，如果一切都是為了提高產能，那麼你認為你們的產能已經利用了多少？所以你們目前是滿載運轉嗎？或者我們應該如何考慮提高產量，以及你們如何制定整體計畫？

Sure. Hey, Emil. Thanks for the question. So if you think about what we've shared so far, we have an existing fab in California. We've been investing in bringing a new fab online. This is something that Infinera had started before we acquired them, and we're continuing to invest. And this was also the place where we got partial funding in the CHIPS Act from the US government. That indium phosphide fab is the one -- the next one is the one we expect to come online later this year.

當然。嘿，艾米爾。謝謝你的提問。所以，想想我們目前為止分享的內容，我們在加州已經有一家工廠了。我們一直在投資建造一條新的生產線。這是 Infinera 在我們收購他們之前就開始做的事情，我們將繼續投資。這也是我們從美國政府根據《兒童健康保險計劃法案》(CHIPS Act)獲得部分資金的地方。那座磷化銦工廠就是我們要建造的那座——下一座是我們預計今年稍後上線的。

What I would say is that we're certainly well on track to consume capacity in the existing one, and we absolutely need the new fab to come online to support the demand that we're seeing and to meet our forecast. So our longer-term forecast because, obviously, as it comes on later this year, it won't contribute as much to production this year.

我想說的是，我們目前肯定能夠很好地利用現有工廠的產能，而且我們絕對需要新的工廠上線，以滿足我們目前的需求並實現我們的預測。因此，我們的長期預測是，很顯然，由於它要到今年晚些時候才會投產，所以它對今年產量的貢獻不會那麼大。

This is a -- this is also critical for us because at the core of our capability and our differentiation is our photonic integrated circuit. It's one of the key elements of the components of these photonic systems, and it's a place where we believe we have differentiation in the product itself.

這對我們來說也至關重要，因為我們能力的核心和差異化優勢在於我們的光子積體電路。它是這些光子系統組件的關鍵要素之一，也是我們認為產品本身俱有差異化優勢的地方。

So what we can do and what's a little bit different than when you think about a traditional semiconductor fab or the higher volumes silicon fabs you might consider in computational silicon or memory or others is that our capital investment size tends to be much smaller to add additional capacity. And that's really just the nature of optical technology and also the nature of indium phosphide.

因此，我們與傳統半導體製造廠或計算矽、記憶體或其他領域中產量較高的矽製造廠略有不同的地方在於，我們增加產能所需的資本投資規模往往要小得多。這就是光學技術的本質，也是磷化銦的本質。

So hopefully, that gives you a couple of dimensions to think about, but I would think about the investments we're making really in that new fab supporting '27 demand. They're starting to ramp during '27. We'll have some reduction this year, but mostly in '27. And then think about the ability to add capacity in that fab or in others as being much smaller chunks.

希望這能給你一些思考的方向，但我認為我們應該認真考慮我們在新工廠的投資，以支持 2027 年的需求。他們在 2027 年開始加速發展。今年會有一些減產，但主要減產將在 2027 年進行。然後考慮一下，在該工廠或其他工廠增加產能的能力，每次增加的幅度都小得多。

So because I realized, well, first of all, while this CapEx is significant for us at an overall level, it's still pretty modest in terms of our CapEx, 5% overall for the company. Secondarily, what I would say is when you think about this CapEx in terms of the broader semi industry, it's really nominal in terms of the overall spend and the size of investments that some of the -- some of our partners in memory and computational silicon make.

因為我意識到，首先，雖然這筆資本支出對我們來說意義重大，但就我們的資本支出而言，它仍然相當適中，僅占公司整體資本支出的 5%。其次，我想說的是，如果你從更廣泛的半導體行業的角度來看待這筆資本支出，那麼就整體支出以及我們的一些內存和計算矽合作夥伴的投資規模而言，這筆支出實際上只是像徵性的。

Did you have a quick follow-up, Emil?

埃米爾，你有什麼後續跟進嗎？

Yeah. Maybe to follow up on how aggressive do you feel you are? So is this -- it's still -- yes, it's a nominal amount. But would you say that you're aggressive? Or is this kind of you're only investing for the 100% of demand you're seeing right now and you're not wanting to overinvest at this point?

是的。或許可以進一步問你覺得自己有多具攻擊性？所以，這——它仍然是——是的，這只是一個象徵性的金額。但你會說自己有攻擊性嗎？或者，你只是根據目前100%的需求進行投資，並且不想在這個時候過度投資？

I think we're -- I think this market is moving, Emil, so quickly that we're -- this is a conversation that is ongoing in terms of where we see the long-term market and where we're investing. And obviously, the other thing here is, right now, if you think about this market, we're vertically integrated.

我認為——我認為這個市場變化太快了，埃米爾，以至於——關於我們如何看待長期市場以及我們的投資方向，這是一個持續的討論。顯然，還有一點是，就目前而言，如果你考慮這個市場，我們會發現我們是垂直整合的。

Others are vertically integrated, some are not. You can look at two extremes. Computational silicon is obviously not a vertically integrated game. TSMC, Intel, GlobalFoundries are largely the leaders in that. So you've got a clear segmentation in the value chain. Memory is vertically integrated.

有些企業實行垂直整合，有些則沒有。你可以看看兩個極端。計算矽顯然不是一個垂直整合的領域。台積電、英特爾、格羅方德是該領域的領導者。所以價值鏈中存在著清晰的細分。記憶體產業實現了垂直整合。

So that's the other strategic question we'll continue to think about as we go forward. But right now, we see tremendous value in that vertical integration. And the choice that we're making is to make sure that we have sufficient capacity to meet the demand, recognizing that we're in a very fast-moving market.

所以，這是我們接下來需要繼續思考的另一個策略問題。但就目前而言，我們看到了這種垂直整合的巨大價值。我們所做的選擇是確保我們有足夠的產能來滿足需求，因為我們意識到我們身處在一個瞬息萬變的市場。

Scale across is an emerging opportunity, as I touched on earlier. And we also believe that over time, as speeds continue to ramp within the data center, there will be more opportunity for coherent optics within the data center.

正如我之前提到的，跨領域規模化是一個新興機會。我們也相信，隨著時間的推移，隨著資料中心速度的不斷提升，資料中心內將有更多機會應用相干光學技術。

Thanks, Emil. Jakob Bluestone, BNP Paribas.

謝謝你，艾米爾。Jakob Bluestone，法國巴黎銀行。

Thanks, David. Just a quick one. Can you maybe just give us an update on the H1 versus H2 margin phasing that you flagged at the CMD? I don't know if you can maybe quantify how big we should think about that? Or is it just the normal seasonality of the business given it always tends to be a bit Q4 weighted anyway?

謝謝你，大衛。就簡單問一下。您能否就 CMD 會議上提到的 H1 與 H2 利潤率階段劃分問題，提供一下最新進展？我不知道你是否可以量化我們應該把這個問題考慮到什麼程度？或者這只是正常的季節性因素，畢竟該產業的業績總是會受到第四季業績的限制？

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, especially, as we said that this is visible in Network Infrastructure side, considering that we launched new products in the first half, and that's why we see this margin impact. We haven't guided exactly per quarter, but of course, we see that the second half, we should see improvement in the margins in this field as well. But it's just that it takes some time before we come over this ramp-up phase and second half is that why giving a little bit better margin profile than first half.

是的。謝謝。是的，尤其是我們之前提到的網路基礎設施方面，考慮到我們在上半年推出了新產品，這就是我們看到利潤率受到影響的原因。我們沒有給出每季的具體業績指引，但當然，我們認為下半年該領域的利潤率應該也會有所改善。但我們需要一些時間才能度過這個啟動階段，所以下半年的利潤率才會比上半年略好。

Thanks, Jacob. Did you have a quick follow-up?

謝謝你，雅各。您有後續跟進嗎？

Yeah. Just a quick one, just on the memory pricing comments. You mentioned that you have long-term contracts. I mean, given it looks like you probably have elevated pricing for at least beyond this year. Can you maybe just give us a sense of those contracts multiyear?

是的。簡單說一下，關於記憶體定價方面的評論。您提到您簽訂的是長期合約。我的意思是，鑑於你們的價格似乎至少在今年以後都會保持高位。您能否簡單介紹一下這些多年期合約的情況？

Yeah. I mean, I would think of these as multiyear contracts. And obviously, the supply agreements are multiyear and then pricing varies depending on the contract term.

是的。我的意思是，我會把這些看作是多年期合約。顯然，供貨協議都是多年期的，價格會根據合約期限而有所不同。

Thanks, Jacob. Sébastien Sztabowicz, Kepler Cheuvreux.

謝謝你，雅各。史巴博維奇 (Sébastien Sztabowicz)，開普勒‧舍弗勒 (Kepler Cheuvreux)。

Yeah. Hello, everyone, and thank you for taking my question. On Mobile Infrastructure, you don't provide any guidance and notably for sales, maybe given more limited visibility. The LAN market is now stabilizing. Do you see any specific downside or upside to your market share in mobile in 2026 beyond the noncontract loss at AT&T?

是的。大家好，感謝各位回答我的問題。在行動基礎設施方面，你們沒有提供任何指導，尤其是在銷售方面，可能提供的可見度也更加有限。區域網路市場目前趨於穩定。除了 AT&T 非合約業務的損失之外，您認為 2026 年貴公司在行動領域的市佔率還有哪些具體的下行或上行風險？

And the second one is on the cost savings. Where have you finally ended 2025 in terms of cost savings? And what do you expect for '26? Do you plan to accelerate a little bit further the cost-cutting actions beyond 2026? Or you will be more on a normal OpEx run rate going forward? Thank you.

第二點是關於成本節約。你們最終在2025年達成了多少成本節約目標？你對2026年有什麼期待？您是否計劃在 2026 年後進一步加快成本削減措施？或者，你們未來的營運支出將維持正常的運行速度？謝謝。

I can start. When it comes to mobile markets, as we said earlier, we see that the market is quite stable in '26. And there's some regional variations here. We can see that we could expect some recovery in India. And then there's some other pressures in like LatAm and other areas.

我可以開始了。就行動市場而言，正如我們之前所說，我們看到 2026 年的市場相當穩定。這裡也存在一些地區差異。我們可以看到，印度經濟可能會出現一些復甦跡象。此外，拉丁美洲和其他地區也存在一些其他壓力。

Of course, our aim, as we had guided in -- already in the Capital Markets Day is that in the Mobile Infrastructure side, our aim is that we will improve the profitability. So we guide gross margin and operating profit levels.

當然，正如我們在資本市場日上所指出的那樣，我們的目標是在行動基礎設施方面提高獲利能力。因此，我們會對毛利率和營業利潤水準進行指導。

So gross margin, we have said that we aim to 48% to 50% gross margins. And we've said that we will grow from the EUR1.5 billion levels going forward towards 2028. And of course, our ambition is that whenever there's opportunities to gain market share, we will capture those opportunities in the mobile side as well.

因此，我們曾表示，我們的目標是毛利率達到 48% 至 50%。我們已經說過，到 2028 年，我們將從 15 億歐元的水準開始成長。當然，我們的目標是，只要有機會獲得市場份額，我們就要在行動領域抓住這些機會。

When it comes to cost savings, I don't know if --

至於節省成本方面，我不知道…--

I would just add two things. I think one, obviously, there's some mix, as you said. The other thing for us, as we talked about, is we're not chasing revenue for revenue's sake. So I think what you -- what I would think about is the reason we gave you a guidance on gross margin and profit is those are really the two things we're focused on, and maximizing gross margin and profit, recognizing there's some inherent scale we need to maintain in the business.

我只想補充兩點。我認為，顯然，正如你所說，其中存在一些混合因素。正如我們之前討論過的，對我們來說，我們追求的不是為了追求收入而追求收入。所以我認為，我們之所以向你們提供關於毛利率和利潤的指導，是因為這兩件事確實是我們關注的重點，即最大限度地提高毛利率和利潤，同時也要認識到我們需要在業務中保持一定的規模。

But working with those customers we value and delivering those services where they value our technology platforms and associated services. So those are the ways I would think about the dimension of the approach that Marco was talking about.

但是，我們重視與這些客戶的合作，並在他們重視我們的技術平台和相關服務的地方提供服務。所以，以上就是我對馬可談到的方法向度的思考方式。

Do you want to talk about cost reduction?

你想談談降低成本嗎？

Yeah. Thanks. When it comes to cost reductions, we have the program now, which is running until end of '26. And we believe that we're going to deliver according to those promises, what we have said earlier as well. So, and beyond that, we don't have any cost-cutting programs.

是的。謝謝。就降低成本而言，我們現在有一個計劃，該計劃將持續到 2026 年底。我們相信我們會兌現這些承諾，就像我們之前所說的。因此，除此之外，我們沒有任何削減成本的計劃。

What we've said also is that what we do continuously is to secure that we are focused on the efficiency, operational leverage, and secure that we are doing things in the most efficient way continuously. So this is something that we are getting into everyone's DNA that is the way of working in Nokia.

我們也說過，我們持續努力的目標是確保我們專注於效率、營運槓桿，並確保我們持續以最有效的方式做事。所以，我們正在將這種理念融入每個人的DNA中，這就是諾基亞的工作方式。

Thank you, all. And apologies to those still in the queue, but we've run out of time. So this concludes today's call.

謝謝大家。對於仍在排隊的各位，我們深表歉意，但時間已經不夠了。今天的電話會議到此結束。

I'd like to remind you that during the call, we have made a number of forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may, therefore, differ materially from the results we currently expect. Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We have identified such risks in the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

我想提醒各位，在電話會議期間，我們做了一些涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述。因此，實際結果可能與我們目前預期的結果有重大差異。造成這種差異的因素既包括外部因素，也包括內部營運因素。我們在年度報告（表格 20-F）的「風險因素」部分中列出了此類風險，該報告可在我們的投資者關係網站上查閱。

Thank you, all, for joining us.

謝謝各位的參與。