英特爾 (INTC) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to Intel Corporation's fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's program is being recorded. And now I'd like to introduce your host for today's program, Mr. John Pitzer, Corporate Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

感謝您的支持，歡迎參加英特爾公司 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。(操作員指示)提醒一下，今天的節目正在錄製。現在我想介紹今天節目的主持人，投資者關係公司副總裁約翰·皮澤先生。請繼續。

Thank you, Jonathan. By now, you should have received a copy of the Q4 earnings release and earnings presentation, both of which are available on our Investor Relations website, intc.com. For those joining us online today, the earnings presentation is also available in our webcast window.

謝謝你，喬納森。到目前為止，您應該已經收到了第四季度收益報告和收益介紹的副本，兩者均可在我們的投資者關係網站 intc.com 上查閱。對於今天在線加入我們的人來說，收益報告也可以在我們的網路廣播視窗中查看。

I'm joined today by our Interim co-CEOs, Michelle Johnston Holthaus and David Zinsner. As you know, Michelle is also CEO of Intel Products and Dave continues to serve as Intel CFO. In a few moments, Michelle will open up with some summary comments before providing more detail on Intel Products. Dave will then discuss Intel Foundry and the overall financials including our Q1 guidance.

今天與我一起出席的還有我們的臨時聯合執行長 Michelle Johnston Holthaus 和 David Zinsner。如您所知，米歇爾也是英特爾產品首席執行官，戴夫繼續擔任英特爾財務長。稍後，米歇爾將發表一些總結性評論，然後提供有關英特爾產品的更多細節。然後戴夫將討論英特爾代工廠和整體財務狀況，包括我們的第一季指引。

Before we begin, please note that today's discussion contains forward-looking statements based on the environment as we currently see it, and as such, are subject to various risks and uncertainties. It also contains reference to non-GAAP and segment financial measures that we believe provide useful information to our investors.

在我們開始之前，請注意，今天的討論包含基於我們目前所見環境的前瞻性陳述，因此受各種風險和不確定性的影響。它還包含非公認會計準則和分部財務指標的參考，我們認為這些指標為我們的投資者提供了有用的資訊。

Our earnings release, most recent annual report on Form 10-K, and other filings with the SEC provide more information on specific risk factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. They also provide additional information on our non-GAAP and segment financial measures, including reconciliations where appropriate to our corresponding GAAP financial measures.

我們的收益報告、最新的 10-K 表年度報告以及向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件提供了更多有關可能導致實際結果與我們的預期存在重大差異的特定風險因素的資訊。它們還提供了有關我們的非 GAAP 和分部財務指標的附加信息，包括與我們相應的 GAAP 財務指標適當的對帳。

With that, let me turn things over to Michelle.

說完這些，讓我把話題交給米歇爾。

Thank you, John, and let me add my welcome. It's been roughly two months since Dave and I stepped into our roles as interim co-CEOs. From day one, we have been working closely together alongside the board to drive better execution of our strategy. There are no quick fixes and we are committed to improving our performance and rebuilding our credibility through persistent hard work that delivers tangible results.

謝謝你，約翰，請容許我表達我的歡迎。自從戴夫和我擔任臨時聯席執行長以來，已經過了大約兩個月的時間。從第一天起，我們就一直與董事會密切合作，以推動更好地執行我們的策略。沒有什麼捷徑可走，我們致力於透過堅持不懈的努力和取得切實的成果來提高我們的業績，重建我們的信譽。

As part of this, we are driving more focused investments across the business. We cannot be all things to all people, and we are prioritizing areas where we can drive differentiated value. We are also continuing to simplify our business and become a leaner, more efficient company. And most of all, we are doing a better job of listening to our customers to ensure we meet their needs.

作為其中的一部分，我們正在推動整個業務範圍內更有針對性的投資。我們無法滿足所有人的需求，因此我們優先考慮能夠帶來差異化價值的領域。我們也將持續簡化業務，成為一家更精簡、更有效率的公司。最重要的是，我們更好地傾聽客戶的意見，以確保滿足他們的需求。

Q4 was a step in the right direction. We delivered revenue, gross margin, and EPS above our guide. Intel Products executed to drive revenue in the quarter even as PC inventory continued to normalize, and Intel Foundry drove incremental operating efficiencies while achieving key grant related milestones which supported solid upside to gross margins.

Q4 朝著正確的方向邁出了一步。我們的營收、毛利率和每股盈餘都高於我們的預期。即使個人電腦庫存繼續正常化，英特爾產品仍推動了本季的收入，而英特爾代工廠推動了營運效率的提高，同時實現了與補助相關的關鍵里程碑，從而支持毛利率穩步上升。

As co-CEOs, you can expect us to be very straightforward and direct. We only make commitments we are confident we can deliver. We firmly believe that what we say is not nearly as important as what we do and everything we do must be in service of our customers. Innovating to solve their most pressing challenges is the surest path to creating shareholder value.

作為聯合首席執行官，你可以期待我們會非常直率和直接。我們只做出有信心能兌現的承諾。我們堅信，我們說什麼遠不如我們做什麼重要，我們所做的一切都必須為客戶服務。透過創新解決最迫切的挑戰是創造股東價值的最可靠途徑。

This is the mindset I have brought to my position as the CEO of Intel Products. This is a great business with great people, partners, and IP to design world class products from edge to cloud. I take nothing for granted but I firmly believe that the core x86 architecture and the ecosystems we have built and invested in over the decades, create a solid foundation for success.

這是我擔任英特爾產品執行長一職時的心態。這是一家偉大的公司，擁有優秀的人才、合作夥伴和智慧財產權，能夠設計從邊緣到雲端的世界級產品。我不會認為任何事情都是理所當然的，但我堅信核心 x86 架構以及我們幾十年來構建和投資的生態系統為成功奠定了堅實的基礎。

Our customers share this view, but they need us to improve our execution and hit our commitments. I am setting clear priorities and directions in each business to drive better outcomes. I think about Intel products in three buckets.

我們的客戶也同意這一觀點，但他們需要我們提高執行力並兌現承諾。我正在為每個業務設定明確的優先事項和方向，以取得更好的結果。我從三個方面考慮英特爾產品。

First, client, edge; second, traditional data center; and third, the AI data center. Let me spend a few moments on each. In client, Intel CPUs power roughly 7 out of every 10 PCs. This is a strong position that gives us advantages in the market that said the market is becoming more competitive, especially as we see new entrants trying to participate in the AI PC category.

第一，客戶端，邊緣；二、傳統資料中心；第三是AI資料中心。請容許我花幾分鐘來分別討論一下。在客戶端，大約每 10 台 PC 就有 7 台採用英特爾 CPU。這是一個強大的地位，為我們提供了市場優勢，市場競爭日益激烈，特別是當我們看到新進入者試圖參與 AI PC 類別時。

Personally, I thrive on competition. It drives a healthy paranoia across everything we do and we're using it as motivation to up our game even more. The success of Core Ultra across Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, and Lunar Lake has established Intel as the market leader in AI PC CPUs. And we remain on track to ship more than 100 million cumulative systems by the end of 2025. We are innovating at scale unlike any of our competitors.

就我個人而言，我熱愛競爭。它使我們所做的每一件事都充滿健康的偏執，我們將其作為動力，進一步提高我們的水平。Core Ultra 在 Meteor Lake、Arrow Lake 和 Lunar Lake 上的成功確立了英特爾作為 AI PC CPU 市場領導者的地位。我們仍有望在 2025 年底前累積出貨超過 1 億套系統。我們正在進行大規模創新，這與我們的競爭對手不同。

This was on display earlier this month at CES where we launched the enterprise versions of our AI CPUs with compelling new features to Intel vPRO. This is a testament to the strong ecosystem we have built with IT departments around manageability, security, trust, and brand, and we expect these investments to possession us well as corporations begin their migration to Windows 11.

本月初，我們在 CES 上展示了這項技術，推出了企業版 AI CPU，它為英特爾 vPRO 帶來了引人注目的新功能。這證明了我們與 IT 部門在可管理性、安全性、信任和品牌方面建立的強大生態系統，我們預計，當企業開始遷移到 Windows 11 時，這些投資將為我們帶來好處。

Alongside our investments in enterprise, our ecosystem reach also positions us well in AI PC consumer markets. We are working with more than 200 ISBs across more than 400 features to optimize their software on our silicon. I'm excited about the new applications I'm seeing in the pipeline that will begin to proliferate over the coming months. Our goal is to innovate partner and fortify our position as the preferred CPU of choice.

除了對企業的投資之外，我們的生態系統覆蓋範圍也使我們在 AI PC 消費市場中佔據有利地位。我們正在與 200 多家 ISB 合作，涵蓋 400 多個功能，以在我們的矽片上優化他們的軟體。我對正在醞釀中的新應用感到很興奮，它們將在未來幾個月內開始激增。我們的目標是創新合作夥伴並鞏固我們作為首選 CPU 的地位。

Looking ahead to the rest of the year, we will strengthen our client roadmap with the launch of Panther Lake, our lead product on Intel 18A in the second half of 2025. As the first volume customer of Intel 18A, I see the progress that Intel Foundry is making on performance and yield. And I look forward to being in production in the second half as we demonstrate the benefits of our world class design and process technology capabilities.

展望今年剩餘時間，我們將在 2025 年下半年推出基於英特爾 18A 的主導產品 Panther Lake，從而加強我們的客戶路線圖。作為英特爾 18A 的首批客戶，我看到了英特爾代工廠在性能和產量方面的進步。我期待下半年投入生產，展示我們世界一流的設計和工藝技術能力的優勢。

2026 is even more exciting from a client perspective as Panther Lake achieves meaningful volumes and we introduced our next generation client family code named Nova Lake. Both will provide strong performance across the entire PC stack with significantly better costs and margins for us enhancing our competitive position and reinforcing our value proposition to our partners and customers.

從客戶的角度來看，2026 年更加令人興奮，因為 Panther Lake 實現了有意義的銷量，並且我們推出了代號為 Nova Lake 的下一代客戶系列。兩者都將為整個 PC 堆疊提供強大的效能，同時大幅降低成本和提高利潤率，從而增強我們的競爭地位並強化我們對合作夥伴和客戶的價值主張。

Let me now turn to our traditional data center business. The team has made good progress towards strengthening our offerings and driving better, more predictable execution. This year is all about improving Xeon's competitive position as we fight harder to close the gap to competition.

現在我來談談我們的傳統資料中心業務。該團隊在加強我們的產品和推動更好、更可預測的執行方面取得了良好的進展。今年，我們將更加努力地縮小與競爭對手的差距，從而提高 Xeon 的競爭地位。

The ramp of Granite Rapids has been a good first step. We are also making good progress on Clearwater Forest, our first Intel 18A server product, that we plan to launch in the first half of next year. All of this provides a strong foundation on which to build as we execute.

花崗岩急流城的斜坡已經邁出了良好的第一步。我們的第一款英特爾 18A 伺服器產品 Clearwater Forest 的研發也取得了良好的進展，計劃於明年上半年推出。這一切為我們實際行動奠定了堅實的基礎。

The world's data center workloads still primarily run on Intel silicon. And we have a strong ecosystem especially within enterprise. We are going to leverage these strengths as we work to stabilize our market share in 2025. One of the ways we'll do this is by reengaging the x86 ecosystem.

全球資料中心的工作負載仍主要運作在英特爾晶片上。我們擁有強大的生態系統，特別是在企業內部。我們將利用這些優勢，努力在 2025 年穩定我們的市場佔有率。我們實現這一目標的方法之一是重新啟動 x86 生態系統。

We have seen a positive response from the x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group we formed last fall, and we are encouraged by the enthusiasm for building both semi-custom and custom products. This is a big area of opportunity for the business, and we look forward to talking more about this as we have news to share.

我們從去年秋天成立的 x86 生態系統諮詢小組得到了積極的回應，人們對建立半客製化和客製化產品的熱情令我們感到鼓舞。這對企業來說是一個巨大的機遇，我們期待在有新聞可以分享時就此進行更多討論。

Turning to the AI data center, I will start by saying that this is an attractive market for us over time, but I am not happy with where we are today.

談到人工智慧資料中心，我首先要說的是，從長遠來看，這對我們來說是一個有吸引力的市場，但我對我們目前的狀況並不滿意。

On the one hand, we have a leading position as the host CPU for AI servers. And we continue to see a significant opportunity for CPU based inference on prem and at the edge as AI infused applications proliferate.

一方面，我們在AI伺服器的主機CPU方面處於領先地位。隨著人工智慧應用的激增，我們繼續看到基於 CPU 的本地和邊緣推理的巨大機會。

On the other hand, we're not yet participating in the cloud-based AI data center market in a meaningful way. We have learned a lot as we have ramped Gaudi, and we are applying those learnings going forward.

另一方面，我們尚未以有意義的方式參與基於雲端的 AI 資料中心市場。我們在推進 Gaudi 的過程中學到了很多東西，並將這些知識運用到未來的發展中。

One of the immediate actions I have taken is to simplify our roadmap and concentrate our resources. Many of you heard me temper expectations on Falcon Shores last month. Based on industry feedback, we plan to leverage Falcon Shores as an internal test chip only without bringing it to market. This will support our efforts to develop a system level solution at rack scale with Jaguar Shores to address the AI data center.

我立即採取的行動之一是簡化我們的路線圖並集中我們的資源。上個月，你們中的許多人都聽到了我關於 Falcon Shores 的緩和期望。根據行業反饋，我們計劃僅將 Falcon Shores 用作內部測試晶片，而不會將其推向市場。這將支援我們與 Jaguar Shores 合作開發機架規模的系統級解決方案以解決 AI 資料中心的問題。

More broadly, as I think about our AI opportunity, my focus is on the problems our customers are trying to solve. Most notably bid to lower the cost and increase the efficiency of compute. AI is not a market in the traditional sense. It's an enabling application that needs to span across the compute continuum from data center to the edge as such a one size fits all approach will not work.

更廣泛地說，當我思考我們的人工智慧機會時，我的重點是我們的客戶正在試圖解決的問題。最值得注意的是降低成本並提高計算效率。人工智慧並不是傳統意義上的市場。它是一種支援性應用程序，需要跨越從資料中心到邊緣的整個計算過程，因為一刀切的方法是行不通的。

And I can see clear opportunities to leverage our core assets in new ways to drive the most compelling total cost of ownership across the continuum. Before I turn the call over to Dave, let me close by speaking of Intel Foundry's largest way for customer.

我看到了以新方式利用我們的核心資產的明顯機會，從而推動整個過程中最具吸引力的總體擁有成本。在我將電話轉給戴夫之前，讓我先談談英特爾代工廠為客戶提供的最大服務方式。

I have a pretty simple approach. When we are able to combine world class products with world class process technology, we win. As CEO of Intel Products, I will always make process technology decisions based on what is best for my customers. And Intel Foundry will need to earn my business every day just as I need to earn the business of my customers.

我有一個非常簡單的方法。當我們能夠將世界一流的產品與世界一流的工藝技術結合時，我們就成功了。作為英特爾產品的首席執行官，我將始終根據對客戶最有利的原則來制定工藝技術決策。而英特爾代工廠需要每天贏得我的生意，就像我需要贏得客戶的生意一樣。

Having said that I'm confident in Intel Foundry team ability to support my current and future product roadmap. And I'm excited to do more business with them as their process technology continues to advance. A stronger Intel Products combined with a more competitive Intel Foundry is a recipe for success for Intel overall.

話雖如此，我相信英特爾代工團隊有能力支持我目前和未來的產品路線圖。隨著他們的工藝技術不斷進步，我很高興能與他們開展更多業務。更強大的英特爾產品與更具競爭力的英特爾代工廠相結合是英特爾整體成功的秘訣。

Dave over to you.

戴夫交給你了。

Thanks Michelle. Let me add my welcome. I'm going to address three topics today: update on Intel Foundry, second Q4 and full year financials, and third, our Q1 guidance.

謝謝米歇爾。請容許我表達我的歡迎。今天我要討論三個主題：英特爾代工廠的最新情況、第四季和全年財務狀況，以及我們的第一季指引。

Starting with Intel Foundry. I've had an opportunity to meet with a number of our partners and potential customers for Intel Foundry over the last couple of months. I come away from those meetings, encouraged by the opportunity we have in front of us, and I've received clear feedback on what our customers need from us to succeed.

從英特爾代工廠開始。過去幾個月我有機會與英特爾代工廠的許多合作夥伴和潛在客戶會面。參加完這些會議後，我被眼前的機會所鼓舞，我也收到了明確的回饋，了解客戶需要我們提供什麼才能取得成功。

This starts with our execution Intel 18A. This has been an area of good progress. Like any new process, there have been puts and takes along the way. But overall, we're confident that we are delivering a competitive process. We're excited by the launch of Panther Lake this year and the internal ramp of Intel 18A in the second half that will support increased volumes and improved profitability in 2026.

這從我們的執行 Intel 18A 開始。這是一個取得了良好進展的領域。與任何新進程一樣，推進過程中也會有各種困難和挫折。但整體而言，我們有信心實現一個有競爭力的流程。我們對今年 Panther Lake 的推出以及下半年英特爾 18A 的內部加速感到興奮，這將支持 2026 年產量的增加和盈利能力的提高。

From the perspective of external customers, Intel 18A is a very competitive offering that gives each of them a reason to engage with us. However, boundary wins are about more than just technology, trust is also a significant factor.

從外部客戶的角度來看，Intel 18A 是一款非常有競爭力的產品，讓每個客戶都有理由與我們合作。然而，邊界勝利不僅取決於技術，信任也是一個重要因素。

Customers must believe you can execute consistently and be willing to invest in IP to port a design to a new foundry. That's why past transitions in the industry have generally started with customers giving new foundry partners smaller volumes then gradually increasing as trust grows.

客戶必須相信您能夠始終如一地執行，並願意投資 IP 以將設計移植到新的代工廠。這就是為什麼過去產業轉型通常都是從客戶向新代工夥伴提供較少的產量開始，然後隨著信任的增強而逐漸增加。

We've made good progress. But to accelerate this, I'm asking the team to redouble their efforts on supporting IP availability and best known foundry methods. I'm particularly pleased by the willingness of our suppliers and partners to engage with us, augmenting our expertise and hard work with theirs.

我們已取得良好進展。但為了加速這一進程，我要求團隊加倍努力，支援 IP 可用性和最佳知名代工方法。我特別高興我們的供應商和合作夥伴願意與我們合作，透過他們的專業知識和辛勤工作來增強我們的專業知識和辛勤工作。

Job number one is earning the customers' trust. The Intel 18A design wins to date provide good validation of the strategy and we continue to have a healthy RFQ pipeline of potential customers, but we won't win every deal out of the gates. We'll be selective and focused on areas where we are confident that we can be a meaningful contributor to the success of our customer. And we look forward to updating you as RFQs become wins.

首要的任務是贏得顧客的信任。迄今為止，英特爾 18A 設計的勝利為該策略提供了良好的驗證，我們繼續擁有健康的潛在客戶 RFQ 管道，但我們不會在每筆交易中都獲勝。我們將精心挑選並專注於那些我們有信心為客戶的成功做出有意義貢獻的領域。我們期待在 RFQ 成功後向您更新最新情況。

In addition, we continue to have good momentum in advanced packaging and in our collaboration with Tower Semiconductor and UMC, all three are critical to utilize our assets longer for higher rates of return.

此外，我們在先進封裝領域繼續保持良好勢頭，並且在與Tower Semiconductor和UMC的合作中，這三者對於更長時間地利用我們的資產以獲得更高的回報率都至關重要。

This is a good segue into my other key area of focus for Intel Foundry, improving our financials and making sure that we're deploying your capital appropriately. At roughly, $18 billion in revenue, Intel Foundry today is larger than all but one external foundry. That's clearly not reflected on our P&L with negative gross margins and a greater than $13 billion operating loss in 2024.

這是一個很好的過渡，讓我可以進入我在英特爾代工廠關注的另一個關鍵領域，那就是改善我們的財務狀況，並確保我們能適當地部署您的資本。如今，英特爾代工廠的營收約為 180 億美元，規模比除一家外部代工廠之外的所有工廠都要大。這顯然沒有反映在我們的損益表中，2024 年的毛利率為負，且營業虧損超過 130 億美元。

We're going to systematically attack our costs and remain highly focused on our goal of delivering breakeven operating income for Intel Foundry by the end of 2027 and we expect to demonstrate improvements this year.

我們將有系統地解決成本問題，並高度專注於 2027 年底實現英特爾代工廠收支平衡的目標，我們預計今年將取得進展。

The financial benefits of shifting our wafer volume from Intel 7 to Intel 18A along with learning to run our fabs more efficiently and our process nodes longer will be important drivers of improving our financials.

將我們的晶圓產量從英特爾 7 轉移到英特爾 18A 所帶來的財務效益，以及學習更有效率地運行我們的晶圓廠和更長的製程節點，將成為改善我們財務狀況的重要驅動力。

Beyond 2027 we need to drive to cash flow from operations that supports our capital spending needs and ultimately generate a great return on your capital.

2027 年以後，我們需要推動營運現金流來支持我們的資本支出需求，並最終為您的資本帶來豐厚的回報。

I remain very optimistic on our opportunity at Intel Foundry. The pervasive growth of AI is driving accelerating and unprecedented demand for silicon and there continues to be an unmet need for greater choice and overall manufacturing capacity in the industry today.

我對我們在英特爾代工廠的機會仍然非常樂觀。人工智慧的廣泛發展正推動著對矽片的加速和前所未有的需求，而當今產業對更多選擇和整體製造能力的需求仍然未得到滿足。

TSMC is a valued supplier to Intel products and important partner to IMS and they've established a very high standard for what it takes to be a world-class foundry. But the market overall needs multiple players. And as we execute, Intel Foundry has a very important role to play globally and especially here in the US where we continue to invest in leading edge R&D and manufacturing capacity.

台積電是英特爾產品的重要供應商，也是 IMS 的重要合作夥伴，他們為成為世界級代工廠制定了非常高的標準。但總體來說，市場需要多個參與者。在我們的執行過程中，英特爾代工廠在全球範圍內發揮著非常重要的作用，特別是在美國，我們繼續投資於領先的研發和製造能力。

We're also pleased to sign with the US Department of Commerce, a definitive agreement awarding us up to $7.86 billion in grants. As you know, these grants are milestone based and we have already received $1.1 billion in Q4 and have received an additional $1.1 billion in January of Q1.

我們也很高興與美國商務部簽署最終協議，授予我們高達 78.6 億美元的補助金。如您所知，這些撥款是基於里程碑的，我們在第四季度已收到 11 億美元，並在第一季 1 月額外收到 11 億美元。

In addition, we continue to make good progress building out our secure enclave in partnership with the Department of Defense. We look forward to continued engagement with the Trump administration as we advance this work and support their efforts to strengthen US technology and manufacturing leadership.

此外，我們與國防部合作，在建造安全區域方面繼續取得良好進展。我們期待在推進這項工作的同時繼續與川普政府合作，並支持他們加強美國技術和製造業領導地位的努力。

Finally, as you will recall, we announced our intention to establish an independent subsidiary structure for Intel Foundry to provide clear governance and operational separation. This structure also enables us to seek additional funding options from both strategic and financial partners, which we are now actively beginning to explore.

最後，您可能還記得，我們​​宣布了為英特爾代工廠建立獨立子公司結構的意圖，以實現明確的治理和營運分離。這種結構也使我們能夠從策略和金融合作夥伴那裡尋求額外的融資選擇，我們現在正積極開始探索。

Let me now turn to our consolidated financial results and Q1 guidance. Fourth quarter revenue, $14.3 billion, up 7% sequentially and at the high end of the range we provided in October as a result of solid growth in CCG, equipment sales at IMS, and the edge business of NEX. Non-GAAP gross margin came in at 42.1%, 260 basis points ahead of guidance on higher revenue, better costs, and the receipt of our first chips grant offset partially by inventory reserves related to Gaudi.

現在我來談談我們的綜合財務表現和第一季指引。第四季營收為 143 億美元，環比成長 7%，處於我們 10 月提供的範圍的高位，這得益於 CCG、IMS 的設備銷售以及 NEX 的邊緣業務的穩健增長。非公認會計準則毛利率為 42.1%，比預期高出 260 個基點，原因是收入增加、成本降低以及收到首支晶片補助，但部分抵消了與 Gaudi 相關的庫存儲備。

We delivered fourth quarter earnings per share of $0.13 versus our guidance of $0.12. Higher revenue, stronger gross margin, and improved operating leverage was offset by lower interest and other income, which includes an accrual related to our second skip agreement of roughly $750 million reflecting an adjustment in our planned capacity ramp in Ireland.

我們第四季的每股收益為 0.13 美元，而我們的預期為 0.12 美元。收入增加、毛利率上升以及經營槓桿提高被利息和其他收入減少所抵消，其中包括與我們的第二份跳過協議相關的約7.5 億美元的應計費用，反映了我們在愛爾蘭計劃的產能提升的調整。

In Q2, we began the process of resizing our expense structure to support more modest long-term growth, including adjusting our capacity plans to more conservative levels, driving impairments in Q3, and this accrual in Q4. Q4 operating cash flow was positive $3.2 billion down approximately $900 million sequentially due to the cash outlays associated with our Q3 restructuring charges.

在第二季度，我們開始調整費用結構，以支持更溫和的長期成長，包括將產能計畫調整到更保守的水平，在第三季度彌補損失，並在第四季度計提應計費用。由於與第三季重組費用相關的現金支出，第四季營運現金流為正 32 億美元，比上一季下降約 9 億美元。

We had gross CapEx of $6.3 billion with offsets of $1.6 billion in the quarter resulting in an adjusted free cash flow of negative $1.5 billion. As I mentioned earlier, we also received a portion of the chips grants this quarter.

本季我們的總資本支出為 63 億美元，抵銷額為 16 億美元，導致調整後的自由現金流為負 15 億美元。正如我之前提到的，本季我們也收到了部分晶片補助。

For the full year, revenue was $53.1 billion, down 2.1% year over year. Modest year-over-year growth in Intel Products was more than offset by lower revenue at Mobileye and Altera as well as the forecasted decline in foundry services due to the end of life on traditional packaging revenue.

全年營收531億美元，年減2.1%。英特爾產品年比溫和成長被 Mobileye 和 Altera 收入的下降以及傳統封裝收入終止導致的代工服務預計下降所抵消。

Full year gross margin was 36% and down 760 basis points due to Q3 impairments, lower revenue, and inventory impacts. Full year EPS was minus $0.13 and down $1.18 on lower revenue, lower gross margin, and higher period charges. We generated $8.3 billion in cash from operations, made $24 billion of gross capital investments and generated capital offsets of approximately $13.4 billion from skip partner contributions and government grants and incentives.

全年毛利率為 36%，由於第三季減損、收入下降和庫存影響，下降 760 個基點。由於收入下降、毛利率下降和期間費用上升，全年每股收益為負 0.13 美元，年減 1.18 美元。我們從營運中產生了 83 億美元的現金，進行了 240 億美元的總資本投資，並從合作夥伴的捐助以及政府補助和獎勵中產生了約 134 億美元的資本抵消。

As a result, adjusted free cash flow was minus $2.2 billion. And we ended the year with $22.1 billion of cash and short-term investments.

因此，調整後的自由現金流為負 22 億美元。截至年底，我們的現金和短期投資為 221 億美元。

Moving to segment results for Q4. Intel Products revenue was $13 billion, up 7% sequentially. CCG revenue was up 9% quarter over quarter as the rate at which our customers digested inventory slowed meaningfully from Q3. While difficult to quantify, we suspect a portion of Q4 revenue upside was due to customers hedging against potential tariffs.

轉向第四季的分部業績。英特爾產品營收為 130 億美元，季增 7%。由於我們的客戶消化庫存的速度較第三季顯著放緩，CCG 營收季增 9%。雖然很難量化，但我們懷疑第四季營收成長的部分原因是客戶對沖潛在關稅。

DCAI revenue was up slightly sequentially off a better-than-expected Q3 as demand for traditional servers remains stable. Revenue for NEX was up 7.5% sequentially and is now up more than 20% from Q2 lows as customers are returning to more normal buying patterns, especially in our edge business.

由於傳統伺服器的需求保持穩定，DCAI 營收較第三季略有成長，優於預期。NEX 的營收環比成長 7.5%，目前較第二季低點成長了 20% 以上，因為客戶正在恢復更正常的購買模式，尤其是在我們的邊緣業務中。

Operating profit for Intel Products with $3.6 billion, 28 percent of revenue and up $300 million quarter over quarter on higher revenue and reduced operating expenses.

英特爾產品的營業利潤為 36 億美元，佔營收的 28%，由於收入增加和營運費用減少，季增 3 億美元。

Intel Foundry delivered revenue of $4.5 billion, up 3% sequentially on increased EUV wafer mix and higher equipment sales by IMS. EUV Wafer revenue grew from 1% of total revenue in 2023 to greater than 5% in 2024.

英特爾代工業務實現營收 45 億美元，季增 3%，得益於 EUV 晶圓組合增加和 IMS 設備銷售額增加。EUV 晶圓收入從 2023 年佔總營收的 1% 成長到 2024 年的 5% 以上。

Intel Foundry operating loss in Q4 of $2.3 billion improved meaningfully sequentially as Q3 was impacted by $3.1 billion of impairments, excluding impairments, operating loss would have been roughly flat quarter on quarter.

英特爾晶片代工第四季的營業虧損為23 億美元，較上一季有顯著改善，因為第三季受到了31 億美元減值的影響，如果排除減值，營業虧損將與上一季基本持平。

Turning to all other, Mobileye reported revenue of $490 million, up 1% sequentially with operating profit of $103 million and earlier today guided for full year 2025 increases to both revenue and operating income. Altera delivered revenue of $429 million, up 4% sequentially. Operating margin was 21% versus 2% in Q3 on better gross margins and operating leverage. For Q1, we expect Altera revenue to be down sequentially less than overall Intel consolidated.

談到其他方面，Mobileye 報告稱，其營收為 4.9 億美元，環比增長 1%，營業利潤為 1.03 億美元，今天早些時候該公司預計 2025 年全年收入和營業收入都將增加。Altera 營收為 4.29 億美元，季增 4%。由於毛利率和營業槓桿率提高，營業利潤率為 21%，而第三季為 2%。對於第一季度，我們預計 Altera 的營收環比下降幅度將小於英特爾整體營收。

We continue to make good progress on the stake sale of Altera and see a path for an IPO in the coming years.

我們在 Altera 的股權出售方面繼續取得良好進展，並預見了未來幾年 IPO 的道路。

Now turning to guidance. Q1 has historically been our seasonally weakest quarter of the year down high single to low double digits percentage sequentially on average. In addition, we see added pressure coming from macro uncertainty, especially around tariffs, balancing of PC inventory, and increasing competition.

現在轉向指導。從歷史上看，第一季是我們一年中季節性最弱的季度，平均環比下降個位數至兩位數的低百分比。此外，我們也看到宏觀不確定性帶來的額外壓力，尤其是關稅、個人電腦庫存平衡和競爭加劇等方面的壓力。

These mitigating factors support a more tempered revenue outlook as we come into the new year. As a result, we're forecasting a revenue range of $11.7 billion to $12.7 billion in the first quarter of 2025 down between 11% to 18% sequentially. Within Intel products, we expect revenue to decline across all three of our segments at roughly similar rates.

隨著新的一年的到來，這些緩解因素支持了更溫和的收入前景。因此，我們預測 2025 年第一季的營收將在 117 億美元至 127 億美元之間，季減 11% 至 18%。對於英特爾產品而言，我們預期三個部門的收入下降速度大致相同。

We expect Intel Foundry revenue roughly flat to down modestly quarter over quarter helped by continued mix shift to EUV Wafers, Intel 18A samples, and advanced packaging. At the midpoint of $12.2 billion, we expect gross margin of approximately 36% with a tax rate of 12% and breakeven EPS, all on a non-GAAP basis.

我們預計，由於產品組合持續轉向 EUV 晶圓、英特爾 18A 樣品和先進封裝，英特爾代工收入將與上一季大致持平或略有下降。以 122 億美元的中間值計算，我們預期毛利率約為 36%，稅率為 12%，每股盈餘達到損益兩平，以上皆基於非 GAAP 基礎。

Let me take a few moments to provide some commentary that may be helpful for your full year 2025 modeling. At the consolidated level, we expect gross margin to improve from Q1. Intel Products gross margin was 51% in 2024 and is expected to decline this year due to product mix in both CCG and DCAI.

請允許我花一點時間來提供一些評論，這些評論可能對您的 2025 年全年建模有所幫助。從綜合層面來看，我們預期毛利率將從第一季開始改善。2024 年英特爾產品的毛利率為 51%，預計今年將因 CCG 和 DCAI 的產品組合而下降。

Intel Foundry's growth margin will improve on EUV mix shift and growth in advanced packaging despite expected depreciation growth in 2025 of roughly 10%. We continue to target 2025 OpEx of $17.5 billion with further reductions in 2026. We expect non-controlled income or NCI to net to roughly $0 in Q1 and be in the range of $500 million to $700 million impact this year on a GAAP basis.

儘管預計 2025 年折舊成長率約為 10%，但英特爾代工廠的成長利潤率將隨著 EUV 組合轉變和先進封裝的成長而提高。我們繼續將 2025 年的營運支出目標定為 175 億美元，並在 2026 年進一步削減。我們預計第一季非控制性收入或 NCI 淨額約為 0 美元，以 GAAP 計算，今年的影響將在 5 億美元至 7 億美元之間。

NCI is expected to grow in fiscal year 2026 to a range of $1.2 billion to $1.4 billion on a GAAP basis and increase further in future years as we increase [way out there for our] fabs where we have agreements with skip partners. We anticipate that our 2025 gross capital investments will be approximately $20 billion at the low end of our previous guide of $20 billion to $23 billion reflecting further capacity adjustments to Ohio and Ireland as well as better utilization of what we call our construction and progress.

根據 GAAP 計算，NCI 預計在 2026 財年將增長至 12 億至 14 億美元，隨著我們與合作夥伴達成協議的晶圓廠數量的增加，未來幾年該數字還將進一步增長。我們預計，2025 年的總資本投資將達到約200 億美元，低於我們先前預測的200 億至230 億美元的低端，這反映了對俄亥俄州和愛爾蘭的進一步產能調整以及對我們所謂的建設和進度的更好利用。

Specifically, we invested ahead of demand over the past few years and these capital investments will enable us to meet expected demand at a lower level of spending as we drive to more efficiently deploy our capital.

具體而言，我們在過去幾年中提前進行了投資，這些資本投資將使我們能夠以較低的支出水平滿足預期的需求，同時我們努力更有效地配置我們的資本。

We expect 2025 net CapEx of $8 billion to $11 billion with roughly half of the offsets expected to come from government incentives and tax credits and half from partner contributions.

我們預計 2025 年淨資本支出為 80 億至 110 億美元，其中約一半的抵銷預計來自政府激勵和稅收抵免，另一半則來自合作夥伴的貢獻。

Delevering in 2025 remains a top priority for us on lower CapEx, increased cash from operations, and value unlock across our non-core assets. Finally, I will remind you that we will provide new segment reporting in conjunction with our Q1 earnings. We expect to make further changes to our segments including moving the edge portion of NEX into CCG and our auto business from all other into CCG.

2025 年去槓桿仍然是我們的首要任務，我們將降低資本支出、增加營運現金流量並釋放非核心資產的價值。最後，我要提醒您，我們將結合第一季財報提供新的分部報告。我們預計將對我們的部門進行進一步的調整，包括將 NEX 的邊緣部分移至 CCG，並將我們的汽車業務從其他所有業務移至 CCG。

In addition, we expect to move the networking portion of NEX which includes Xeon sales into DCAI and the IMS equipment business out of Intel Foundry into all other.

此外，我們預計將 NEX 的網路部分（包括 Xeon 銷售）轉移到 DCAI，並將 IMS 設備業務從英特爾代工廠轉移到其他所有部門。

I'll wrap up by saying that Q4 was a solid quarter to close out a challenging year. With that said, our profitability is below where it needs to be and we must enhance our competitive position in the market. Michelle and I will continue taking actions to improve the operational and financial trajectory of the business.

總而言之，我想說，第四季是一個穩健的季度，為充滿挑戰的一年畫上了圓滿的句點。話雖如此，我們的獲利能力仍低於應有的水平，我們必須提高我們在市場上的競爭地位。米歇爾和我將繼續採取行動，改善業務的營運和財務軌跡。

We remain focused on building a stronger Intel Products business and becoming a more efficient Intel Foundry, and by driving continued progress in these areas, we're confident in our ability to unlock value for our stakeholders.

我們將繼續致力於打造更強大的英特爾產品業務和更有效率的英特爾代工廠，透過推動這些領域的持續進步，我們有信心為利害關係人創造價值。

Before we open the line to questions, it's worth mentioning that the Board remains intensely focused on the search for a permanent CEO. The search is progressing, but we have nothing new to report and won't be able to add additional information this topic today.

在我們開始回答問題之前，值得一提的是，董事會仍然高度重視尋找永久執行長。搜尋正在進行，但我們沒有任何新內容可報告，並且今天無法添加有關此主題的其他資訊。

With that, I'll turn it over to John to start the Q&A.

現在，我將把話題交給約翰開始問答環節。

Thank you, Dave. We will now transition to the Q&A portion of our call. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你，戴夫。我們現在將進入電話會議的問答部分。（操作員指令）

Certainly. And our first question for today comes from the line of Ross Seymour from Deutsche Bank. Your question please?

當然。我們今天的第一個問題來自德意志銀行的羅斯·西摩。請問您的問題是什麼？

I guess the first I would be for MJ. You talked about no quick fixes, but a lot of things to improve the road map. Specifically on the DCAI side of things. Can you talk about how much you think Granite is closing the gap. It sounds like Clearwater Forest is not mentioned nearly as much as far as a 2025 event neither from a launch or from a revenue perspective. So if there's any updates on that? And then just overall, what it's going to take? And when do you think we will be able to externally see that gap close versus competitors?

我想，第一個想到的應該是 MJ。您談到了沒有快速解決辦法，但有很多事情可以改善路線圖。具體來說，就是 DCAI 方面的事情。你能談談你認為 Granite 在多大程度上縮小了差距嗎？聽起來，無論是從發布還是從收入的角度來看，Clearwater Forest 在 2025 年的活動中都沒有被提及。有沒有什麼最新消息？那麼整體來說，需要做什麼？您認為什麼時候我們才能從外部看到與競爭對手的差距縮小？

Sure. Thanks for the question, Ross. I look at it this way. So when I talk about no quick fixes, I think it's going to be 1 to 2 years of consistent execution and continuing to see better products each year, really to bring our customers back to the table and be excited about Intel's road map. Granite Rapids is a good first step in doing that. It does close the gap. Our customers are excited about it, and we are starting to see the competitiveness of that product materialize in volume. But I'm also very clear about where we stand. And so we've just got to see that continued throughout '26 when we get to Diamond Rapids, et cetera.

當然。謝謝你的提問，羅斯。我是這樣看待這個問題的。因此，當我談到沒有快速解決方案時，我認為這將需要1 到2 年的持續執行，並且每年繼續推出更好的產品，真正讓我們的客戶回到談判桌上，並對英特爾的路線圖感到興奮。花崗岩急流城 (Granite Rapids) 是實現這一目標的良好開端。它確實縮小了差距。我們的客戶對此感到非常興奮，我們也開始看到該產品的競爭力在數量上得到體現。但我也非常清楚我們的立場。因此，我們必須觀察這種情況在 26 年繼續發生，直到我們到達 Diamond Rapids 等等。

So you also asked me about Clearwater Forest. So I really look at the data center market in kind of 2 buckets. We have our P-core products, which you know is Granite Rapids and then we have our E-core products, which equates to Clearwater Forest. And what we've seen is that's more of a niche market, and we haven't seen volume materialize there as fast as we expected. But as we look at Clearwater Forest, we expect that to come to market in the first half of 2026. And 18A is doing just fine on a performance and yield for Granite Rapids, but it does have some complicated packaging expectations that move it to 2026. But we expect that to be a good product and continue to close the gap as well. But this is going to be a journey. It's not a destination.

所以你還問了我關於清水森林的事情。因此我實際上是從兩個角度來看資料中心市場。我們有 P 核心產品，也就是 Granite Rapids，然後我們有 E 核心產品，也就是 Clearwater Forest。而我們看到的更多的是利基市場，而且我們還沒有看到那裡的銷售量像我們預期的那樣快地成長。但當我們觀察 Clearwater Forest 時，我們預計它將在 2026 年上半年上市。18A 在 Granite Rapids 的性能和產量方面表現不錯，但其有一些複雜的封裝預期，需要推遲到 2026 年。但我們希望這是一款好的產品並且繼續縮小差距。但這將是一次旅程。這不是一個目的地。

Ross. Do you have a follow up question?

羅斯。您還有其他問題嗎？

Yes, switching over to Dave on the profitability side. Can you just walk us through some of the puts and takes on the gross margin sequentially in the first quarter? Obviously, revenues are down, but anything else? And then you mentioned that it would be the low point of the year gross margin in the first quarter. But what would be the headwinds and tailwinds as you think through 2025 as a whole on that metric?

是的，從獲利方面來說，轉向戴夫。您能否為我們介紹一下第一季毛利率的一些變化？顯然，收入下降了，但還有其他情況嗎？然後您提到第一季的毛利率將是今年的最低點。但是，如果您按照這個指標來展望整個 2025 年，那麼逆風和順風會是什麼呢？

Yes. Thanks, Ross. Okay. So for the first quarter, the biggest obvious contributor to gross margins sequentially is the revenue decline. At the midpoint, we're declining a little over $2 billion. And so that obviously on a mostly fixed cost business, that does affect it. We also did have a couple of [bluebirds] in Q4. One was the revenue beat, and so that actually elevated the revenue a bit.

是的。謝謝，羅斯。好的。因此，就第一季而言，對毛利率造成影響的最大明顯因素是收入的下降。中間值下降了 20 多億美元。因此，顯然對於主要以固定成本為主的業務來說，這確實會產生影響。我們在第四季也確實有幾隻[藍鳥]。一是收入超出預期，這實際上略微提高了收入。

But the other was when we signed the CHIPS agreement, we were able to take some of the grant and accrue it as kind of a benefit to cost of sales because it offset period expenses we had spent before. So we weren't sure we were going to sign it in the fourth quarter, which is why I didn't guide that in the guidance from last quarter, but obviously, materializing that pushed the gross margins up for the fourth quarter. In the first quarter, I think what -- and we've kind of telegraphed this now for several quarters. Intel Products gross margins are going to be under pressure this year.

但另一個是，當我們簽署 CHIPS 協議時，我們可以獲得部分補助並將其作為銷售成本的一種收益，因為它抵消了我們之前花費的期間費用。因此，我們不確定是否會在第四季度簽署該協議，這就是為什麼我沒有在上個季度的指引中對此進行指導，但顯然，實現該協議將推高第四季度的毛利率。在第一季度，我認為——而且我們已經在幾個季度傳達了這種訊息。英特爾產品的毛利率今年將面臨壓力。

Some of the parts have a higher cost, in particular, Lunar Lake has a higher cost, as you know, because it's got the memory and package. And so we're basically buying that memory and turning around and selling it at the same price. So that's really weighing the margins down on Lunar Lake. So margins for products are going to be under pressure pretty much throughout this year. Then as Panther Lake comes in volume next year. more materially and in addition, the products beyond that, we'll start to see some improvement in margins on Intel products.

有些零件的成本較高，特別是 Lunar Lake，因為它有記憶體和封裝，所以成本較高。因此，我們基本上是購買該內存，然後以相同的價格轉售它。這確實壓低了 Lunar Lake 的利潤率。因此，今年全年產品利潤率將面臨壓力。那麼明年 Panther Lake 的產量就會增加。更重要的是，除此之外，我們將開始看到英特爾產品利潤率提高。

Now that was always to be offset in a lot of ways by the margins of Intel Foundry. We see more of a mix of EUV wafers. They have better pricing with a better cost. And so we'll see a mix improvement throughout the year. We're also reducing our spending there in [ period ] expenses as part of our kind of overall $10 billion-plus cost spending reduction. But it doesn't really show up in the first quarter. It's not until we get into the second and third quarter that we start to see that improvement show up.

現在，英特爾代工廠的利潤在許多方面都抵消了這一差距。我們看到更多 EUV 晶圓的混合。他們有更優惠的價格和更優的成本。因此，我們將看到全年混合狀況的改善。我們還削減了該項（期間）費用，這是我們整體 100 多億美元成本支出削減計劃的一部分。但第一季並沒有明顯反映這一點。直到進入第二季和第三季度，我們才開始看到這種改善。

So those are really the bigger drivers of margins on the first quarter. It is a low point, as we talked about. The benefits are going to be really around margins improving on Intel Foundry. As the mix of EU wafers increases throughout the year, in particular, as we get Panther Lake in there in the back half of the year, and we're selling 18A wafers at a higher margin. And then next year, we have Panther Lake with more volume and all those wafers start to come back, and that becomes a really big benefit to Intel overall.

所以這些其實是第一季利潤率的最大驅動因素。正如我們所說，這是一個低谷。這些好處確實在於英特爾代工廠利潤率的提升。隨著歐盟晶圓的組合在全年不斷增加，特別是隨著我們在下半年推出 Panther Lake，並且我們以更高的利潤率銷售 18A 晶圓。明年，我們將推出產量更大的 Panther Lake，所有這些晶圓都會開始回歸，這對英特爾整體來說是一個非常大的優點。

Thank you, Ross Jonathan. Do we have the next question, please?

謝謝你，羅斯喬納森。請問我們還有下一個問題嗎？

Stacy Rasgon, Bernstein Research

伯恩斯坦研究公司（Bernstein Research）的史黛西·拉斯岡（Stacy Rasgon）

Hi guys. Thanks for taking my question. First question just on the segment guide for next quarter. Why are all three product segments down equally when it sounds like you've got more headwinds just on the surface of PC inventory digestion and maybe the roll off of some of that tariff pull forward. What's going on in the, in the data center and the NEX businesses that makes them as bad as a client in into Q1.

嗨，大家好。感謝您回答我的問題。第一個問題是關於下個季度的細分指南。為什麼三個產品部門的銷售量都出現了同樣的下滑，聽起來你們在個人電腦庫存消化和部分關稅上調的表面壓力下似乎遇到了更多阻力？資料中心和 NEX 業務中發生了什麼，使得它們在第一季的表現和客戶一樣糟糕。

Well, broadly across all markets. And weren't, we didn't necessarily telegraph every market in terms of where we think. But I think broadly, we're, we're a little bit cautious on the macro and that affects all markets. In addition, seasonality does play in most of the markets and that, that does impact the first quarter as well. So I would say, combination of just macro uncertainty combined with you know, kind of typical seasonality across all the businesses.

嗯，廣泛涉及所有市場。而且，我們並不一定能向每個市場傳達我們的想法。但我認為，從總體上看，我們對宏觀層面持謹慎態度，這會影響所有市場。此外，季節性確實在大多數市場中發揮作用，這也會對第一季產生影響。所以我想說，宏觀不確定性與所有企業的典型季節性相結合。

Stacy. Do you have a follow up question?

史黛西。您還有其他問題嗎？

Yeah, I do. Thank you. So you also talked about increased competitiveness, weighing on margins, at least in the Q1. So a again, I presume that's a question pricing, I guess. Is that right? Do you expect that to persist through the year? And how do you think about that competitiveness potentially weigh on pricing across client and especially in the, in the data center?

是的，我知道。謝謝。所以您也談到了競爭力的增強，至少在第一季度，這對利潤率有影響。所以我再次假設這是一個定價問題。是嗎？您預計這種狀況會持續到今年嗎？您如何看待競爭力對客戶定價（尤其是資料中心定價）的潛在影響？

Yeah. Okay. So the CO-CEO S are trying to figure out who should answer. Okay. Go ahead, Michel.

是的。好的。因此，聯合執行長 S 正在試圖確定誰應該回答。好的。繼續吧，米歇爾。

Whoever wants to take it.

誰想拿就拿。

Yeah. The way I look at that is we do have increased competition as we see new market entrants particularly come to CCG. We've got a very good product in Lunar Lake there. But as Dave talked about, the margins on that product are more pressured based on the cost of the product. But we are going to stem the market segment share decline and client and we're going to go after winning every socket that mirrors itself when you think about the data center market as well as I said, Granite Rapids is a very positive step in a competitive direction, but we have to stem the tide of share loss in data center. And so we will be fighting for every socket in that business. And the way I look at it is we need to be aggressive. We need to win share and we need to show our customers that they can win with us.

是的。我的看法是，隨著我們看到新的市場進入者特別是 CCG，我們的競爭確實加劇了。我們在 Lunar Lake 有一款非常好的產品。但正如戴夫所說，該產品的利潤率因產品成本而承受更大的壓力。但我們將阻止市場份額的下降和客戶，我們將努力贏得每一個反映資料中心市場的插座，就像我說的，Granite Rapids 是一個非常積極的一步競爭方向，但我們必須阻止資料中心份額流失的趨勢。因此，我們將為該業務中的每一個機會而奮鬥。我認為我們需要積極進取。我們需要贏得份額，我們需要向我們的客戶證明他們可以與我們一起贏得勝利。

Thank you, Stacey Jonathan. Can we have the next question.

謝謝你，史泰西喬納森。我們可以提出下一個問題嗎？

[Jay], Cantor Fitzgerald

[傑伊]，康托·菲茨傑拉德

Thank you for taking the question. I guess first question under your new co-leadership. I would be curious to hear how your strategy has potentially evolved specifically for IFS.

感謝您回答這個問題。我想這是您在新的共同領導下提出的第一個問題。我很好奇，想聽聽您的策略針對 IFS 是如何演變的。

I mean I think -- and we've talked about this over the last couple of quarters. For one, we are not looking to spend ahead of success. And so you saw our CapEx guide come down from the 20 to 23 range down to 20, that's in support of that strategy. We want to absolutely wow the customers. But to do that, we've got to be very careful around what we're promising them as well.

我的意思是，我認為——我們在過去幾個季度已經討論過這個問題。首先，我們不想在成功之前就投入巨額資金。因此，您會看到我們的資本支出指南從 20 到 23 的範圍下降到 20，這是為了支持該策略。我們想讓顧客絕對驚嘆。但要做到這一點，我們必須非常謹慎地對待他們的承諾。

So I think what you'll see a lot of is a little bit more conservatism around how we deploy capital, how we engage with customers. We want to be doing more than what we promised to every turn -- to every stakeholder, including investors, including customers, including suppliers, so what have you.

因此，我認為你會看到我們在如何部署資本、如何與客戶互動方面更加保守。我們希望做的比我們對每一個利害關係人，包括投資者、客戶、供應商等所做的承諾更多。

That's pretty much the strategy. The main goal of building a world-class foundry, that's still in place. We feel that there absolutely is a need for another player in the leading-edge semiconductor manufacturing space. In particular, in the US, it aligns with the government -- the US government's interest as well. So we're absolutely committed to that. It's now about being very cautious and careful around generating the best ROIC for the shareholders.

這就是大致的策略。建造世界一流代工廠的主要目標依然沒有改變。我們認為，尖端半導體製造領域絕對需要另一個參與者。特別是在美國，這與政府——也符合美國政府的利益。因此我們絕對致力於此。現在必須非常謹慎和小心地為股東創造最佳的投資報酬率。

Jay do you have a follow up question?

傑伊，你還有其他問題嗎？

I do. Thanks. I guess, Dave, another question for you. I believe that 3 months ago, the stated goal for 2025 was to be free cash flow positive, I guess, given kind of the weakness we're seeing in Q1 and uncertainty, can you kind of walk through how you're thinking about the path to turning free cash flow positive?

我願意。謝謝。戴夫，我想問你另一個問題。我記得三個月前，我們提出的2025 年目標是實現自由現金流為正，考慮到我們在第一季度看到的疲軟和不確定性，您能否介紹一下您是如何考慮這一目標的？

Yes. So we're not obviously guiding beyond the first quarter. But I would just say, we did a very good job in a challenging situation in '24 around cash flow from operations by driving strong working capital improvements, and we adjusted CapEx accordingly, and that helped stem the tide.

是的。因此，我們顯然不會對第一季之後的情況做出指引。但我只想說，在 24 年的經營現金流面臨挑戰的情況下，我們透過推動強勁的營運資本改善做得非常好，並且我們相應地調整了資本支出，這有助於扭轉局勢。

So while we were negative in '24, we were closer to 0 than we should have been based on the top line results. I'd say it's more about the same in '25. We're going to be acutely focused on cash flow from operations, really managing working capital effectively. We adjusted the CapEx down, as I talked about in relationship to a different outlook.

因此，雖然我們在 24 年的業績為負數，但根據頂線業績，我們比應該達到的水平更接近 0。我想說，'25 年的情況大致相同。我們將專注於經營活動產生的現金流，真正有效管理營運資金。正如我之前談到的與不同前景相關的內容，我們下調了資本支出。

We do expect some pretty significant offsets as well more than $10 billion of offsets, which will also help. I won't throw out a number yet for adjusted free cash flow for the year, but I would just say that it's a focus that -- where we want to improve. I would say in addition to that, we have these noncore businesses, and we see opportunity to monetize there. That will help us delever because that's a focus of us -- focus of ours in 2025. We are far along on the process of Altera. I suspect that by the time we get to earnings next quarter, we'll have something to say there that will help generate some cash that we can use to delever.

我們確實預計會有一些相當大的抵銷額度以及超過 100 億美元的抵銷額度，這也會有所幫助。我暫時不會公佈今年調整後的自由現金流的具體數字，但我只想說，這是我們想要改進的重點。我想說，除此之外，我們還有這些非核心業務，我們看到了從中獲利的機會。這將幫助我們去槓桿，因為這是我們 2025 年的重點。我們在 Altera 的進程上已經取得了很大進展。我認為，到下個季度公佈收益時，我們將會有一些話要說，這將有助於產生一些可以用來去槓桿的現金。

Thanks CJ Jonathan. Can we have the next question, please?

謝謝 CJ Jonathan。我們可以問下一個問題嗎？

Joe Moore from Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的喬摩爾。

Great. Thank you. In the prepared remarks, you made reference to the sort of tempering of expectations of Falcon Shores. Can you talk about what was behind that? And kind of what does it take for you to get competitive in that space? .

偉大的。謝謝。在準備好的演講中，您提到了 Falcon Shores 的期望調節。你能談談背後的原因嗎？那麼，您需要怎樣的條件才能在該領域具有競爭力呢？。

Yes, of course, I can, Joe. I think it really comes down to taking the time over the last 6 weeks to actively engage with the teams, look at our road maps, look at where we are from a competitive perspective and from an execution perspective, and that really resulted in that decision.

是的，當然可以，喬。我認為，這實際上歸結於過去 6 週的時間裡，我們花時間積極與團隊溝通，查看我們的路線圖，從競爭和執行的角度審視我們所處的位置，這才真正促成了這一決定。

A lot of conversations with my customers as well in regards to what they see is needed to be competitive and to deliver the right product. And so when I looked at that, obviously, we have our Gaudi product, we're learning a lot from that. But 1 of the things that we've learned from Gaudi is it's not enough to just deliver the silicon. We need to be able to deliver a complete rack scale solution, and that's what we're going to be able to do with falcon -- excuse me, with Jaguar Shores. Falcon Shores will help us in that process of working on the system, networking memory, all the component functions of that, but what customers really want is that full sale rack solution.

我也與客戶進行了很多對話，了解他們所看到的東西，以保持競爭力並交付正確的產品。所以當我看到這個時，顯然我們有高第產品，我們從中學到了很多東西。但我們從 Gaudi 學到的一點是，僅僅提供矽是不夠的。我們需要能夠提供完整的機架規模解決方案，而這正是我們透過 Falcon — — 對不起，是透過 Jaguar Shores — — 能夠做到的。Falcon Shores 將在系統、網路記憶體以及所有組件功能的工作過程中為我們提供協助，但客戶真正想要的是完整的銷售機架解決方案。

And so we're able to get to that with Jaguar Shores. I think we've also seen a lot this week with DeepSeek and a lot of the excitement around not one size fits all. And so I'm also trying to look at the road map to say there's a lot of IP and assets that we have at Intel Product co that we can leverage to address this market.

因此我們能夠透過 Jaguar Shores 實現這一目標。我想我們本周也看到了很多有關 DeepSeek 的事情，以及關於沒有一種尺寸適合所有情況的令人興奮的事情。因此，我也試著查看路線圖，以了解英特爾產品公司擁有大量的智慧財產權和資產，我們可以利用它們來滿足這個市場的需求。

We've got great CPUs, GPUs, ASICs, FPGAs, and we need to figure out how we harness those because if we've seen anything this week, when there are constraints put on customers, they figure out different ways to deploy technology. And so that's also a great opportunity and something that I'm looking at and looking at if there's ways that we can be disrupted there.

我們擁有出色的CPU、GPU、ASIC 和FPGA，我們需要弄清楚如何利用它們，因為如果我們本週看到任何事情的話，就會發現當客戶受到限制時，他們會想出不同的方式來部署技術。所以這也是一個很好的機會，我正在研究是否有辦法打破這種局面。

So, do you have a follow up question?

那麼，您還有後續問題嗎？

I do. And thank you for your candor about all of that. I think separately, you mentioned in his prepared remarks about potentially seeing tariffs driving some pull forward. Can you just talk about how pervasive that might be? Is that conservatism that, that might be happening? You're seeing evidence that's happening? Just some color on where that's coming from.

我願意。感謝您對此的坦誠。另外，我認為您在他的準備好的演講中提到了關稅可能會推動一些進展。您能談談這種現象的普遍性嗎？這就是可能發生的保守主義嗎？你看到正在發生的證據了嗎？只是對其來源進行一些說明。

Yes. I mean we obviously have a fairly good sense of what customers need from quarter-to-quarter. And in a couple of instances, customers ordered more than we think they were digesting. And so it was really just the analytics that gave us insight into -- they're doing that for a reason, and we know tariffs are big subject of a lot of our customers. It was in the region you might expect in the Asian region that we saw this. It's hard for me to extrapolate this beyond this quarter. A lot not known yet around what might be the plans on tariffs. I just thought it was a little bit of hedging going on by customers that pulled revenue into the fourth quarter and away from the first quarter.

是的。我的意思是，我們顯然非常清楚客戶每季的需求。在某些情況下，顧客點的菜量超出了我們的想像。因此，實際上只是分析讓我們了解到——他們這樣做是有原因的，我們知道關稅是許多客戶關注的大問題。您可能已經預料到，我們在亞洲地區看到了這種情況。我很難推斷本季之後的情況。關於關稅計劃，目前仍有許多未知數。我只是認為這是客戶進行的一點對沖，將收入從第一季拉到了第四季。

Thank you, Jonathan. Can we have the next question.

謝謝你，喬納森。我們可以提出下一個問題嗎？

Timothy Arcuri from UBS.

瑞銀的提摩西·阿庫裡。

Thanks a lot. Dave, I also wanted to ask about gross margin. I think the message you were saying is that it's kind of 60% incremental, and that was kind of off of the [39.5] that you guided for Q4, but obviously, you came in, you had these one-timers and now we're down to March. So can you just sort of level set us for kind of how to think of the incrementals from here?

多謝。戴夫，我也想問毛利率。我認為你所說的訊息是，這是一種60% 的增量，這有點偏離你在第四季度指導的[39.5]，但很明顯，你進來了，你有這些一次性的東西，現在我們'降至三月。那麼您能否為我們設定一個水平，讓我們知道從現在開始如何思考增量？

Incrementals from Q -- in other words, into Q2, Q3 and Q4. Is that what you're saying?

從 Q 開始的增量 — — 換句話說，進入 Q2、Q3 和 Q4。你是這個意思嗎？

Yes. Yes. Just kind of like is it off of [3.95%], is about [3.65].

是的。是的。就像是 [3.95%]，大約是[3.65]

Yes. The rule of thumb has generally been 60% in this period of what I call catch up. Obviously, we think we can do better fall-through as we get more stabilized. The one dynamic in '25 is this kind of margin pressure around product like Lunar Lake. That probably pulls the range down to probably something more like in the 40% to 60% fall-through is probably the right way to think about it just for that dynamic. Now we get into '26 and you start to see a lot more 18A volume through Panther Lake, I think we're in the 60%-plus range at that level.

是的。在我稱之為追趕的這個時期，經驗法則通常是 60%。顯然，我們認為，隨著情況更加穩定，我們可以做得更好。'25 年的一個動態是圍繞 Lunar Lake 等產品的利潤壓力。這可能會將範圍拉低到更像 40% 到 60% 的跌幅，這可能是針對這種動態的正確思考方式。現在我們進入 26 年，你會開始看到通過 Panther Lake 的 18A 流量大大增加，我認為我們在這個水平上處於 60% 以上的範圍。

Tim Do you have a follow on question?

提姆，你還有其他問題嗎？

I do. Yes, Dave, also, so you took the CapEx to the [land], but there's $1.2 billion outflow that's in the financing section of the cash flow statement. What is that? I guess I'm trying to figure out just on an apples-to-apples basis, is like CapEx really coming down this year? And is that a line item in the financing section, is that going to keep getting bigger this year?

我願意。是的，戴夫，你把資本支出帶到了[土地]上，但現金流量表的融資部分有 12 億美元的流出。那是什麼？我想我只是試著從同類比較的角度來弄清楚，今年的資本支出真的會下降嗎？這是融資部分中的一項嗎？

Yes. No -- let's see, let me go back on the CapEx. If you look at CapEx for '25, the $20 billion forecast, what's driving that lower is really a function of better utilizing assets under construction. So our philosophy has been to invest kind of ahead of what was required, and we built up a pretty significant balance in assets under construction, I mean, to the tune of greater than $50 billion.

是的。不，讓我們看看，讓我回到資本支出。如果你看一下25年的資本支出，即預計的200億美元，那麼推動這一數字下降的實際上是更好地利用在建資產的結果。因此，我們的理念是提前投資，我們在建設中的資產餘額相當可觀，金額超過 500 億美元。

So we actually have a lot of capital on the balance sheet that really hasn't been deployed. And so what we pushed the teams to do in an effort to drive better ROA and return on invested capital is to have them digest as much as that as possible and limit the amount of purchases that we make externally. And that's going to allow us to get down to the $20 billion range.

因此，我們的資產負債表上實際上有許多尚未部署的資本。因此，為了提高 ROA 和投資資本回報率，我們敦促團隊盡可能地消化這些，並限制我們的外部採購。這將使我們的預算降至 200 億美元左右。

I would be -- we're not doing any funky financing around this, but I would be in the spirit of transparency, say that CapEx is two things, right? It's what you place in terms of orders on equipment, and it's when you give them the cash. And so for sure, we are working the payment terms of suppliers to improve our -- to improve our CapEx, lower our CapEx, that is pushing spend out even as we're getting the assets in. But quite honestly, by the time we've actually deployed it and it's depreciating, we've actually, in all cases, I think, spent the money because it goes on to assets under construction and probably hangs in there for like nine months before it's ever deployed.

我會——我們不會圍繞這一點進行任何奇怪的融資，但我會本著透明的精神，說資本支出是兩件事，對嗎？這是您在設備訂單中所下達的款項，也是您向他們支付現金的時間。因此可以肯定的是，我們正在努力改善供應商的付款條件，以改善我們的資本支出，降低我們的資本支出，即使我們獲得了資產，也會增加支出。但坦白說，當我們真正部署它並且它開始貶值時，我認為在所有情況下，我們實際上都已經花掉了這筆錢，因為它會繼續用於在建資產，並且可能會在那裡停留九個月左右。

Thank you, Tim Jonathan. Do we have the next question.

謝謝你，提姆·喬納森。我們還有下一個問題嗎？

Vivek Arya BofA Securities

Vivek Arya 美銀證券

First kind of related questions are on the data center server CPU market. MJ. I'm curious, when you look at Intel versus your x86 competitor, do you think these share gains are because of better design or access to better manufacturing? And so what can be fixed and what will take time to fix or if you were to outsource more, right, to external foundry does that help you regain share, and I imagine that applies more to cloud. And then on the enterprise side, have you seen any share shifts at all over the last few years?

第一類相關問題是關於資料中心伺服器CPU市場的。喬丹。我很好奇，當您比較英特爾與 x86 競爭對手時，您認為這些份額的成長是因為更好的設計還是更好的製造能力？那麼哪些問題可以解決，哪些問題需要時間解決，或者如果你將更多的問題外包給外部代工廠，這是否有助於你重新獲得份額，我想這更適用於雲端運算。那麼在企業方面，過去幾年您是否看到任何份額變化？

Thanks, Vivek. Well, as you look at data center and the competitiveness, as I said and stated earlier, Granite Rapids did a good job of making a good first step in closing the gap versus competition, but we still have a gap. And so we've got to be laser focused next on delivering Diamond Rapids. And the feedback for both of those products early is very positive. When it comes to external manufacturing, I've been pretty transparent about this in the way I think about it in my philosophy.

謝謝，維韋克。好吧，當你看看資料中心和競爭力時，正如我之前所說，Granite Rapids 在縮小與競爭對手的差距方面邁出了良好的第一步，但我們仍然存在差距。因此，我們下一步必須全心全意地致力於 Diamond Rapids 計畫的實施。這兩款產品的早期回饋都非常正面。當談到外部製造時，我在我的哲學中對此的看法是相當透明的。

The way I look at it is you have to have the right product at the right process and you have to deliver that within the right market window. If you look at Intel's overall today, we do about 30% of our manufacturing externally across a variety of partners. That's probably the high for where we are today, but it will never be 0. What I can tell you is 18A is going well. They earn my business, obviously, both for Panther Lake and for Clearwater Forest. But as I think about being more competitive in data center moving forward and I look at future designs, I will ask myself that question every time as we look at the road map. So I think it would not be unfathomable that I would put a data center product outside. If that meant that I hit the right product, the right market window as well as the right performance for my customers.

我的看法是，你必須透過正確的流程生產正確的產品，並且必須在正確的市場窗口內交付該產品。如果你看看英特爾今天的整體情況，我們大約 30% 的製造業務是透過各種合作夥伴進行的。這可能是我們目前的最高水平，但永遠不會是 0。我可以告訴你的是18A進展順利。顯然，他們為我贏得了生意，無論是 Panther Lake 還是 Clearwater Forest。但當我考慮如何在未來的資料中心中提高競爭力並展望未來的設計時，每次我們在看路線圖時我都會問自己這個問題。所以我認為把資料中心產品放在外面並不是不可思議的事情。如果這意味著我為客戶提供了正確的產品、正確的市場窗口以及正確的性能。

So do you have a follow up question?

您還有後續問題嗎？

Yes. Thank you, John. So maybe one for Dave on this noncontrolling interest. I think David said $500 million to $700 million for this year, so a little bit lower than I think the $700 million you had before. But then it starts to grow to $1.2 billion or $1.4 billion. Is this always going to keep on increasing, right? Like what is the right way for us to model it because the less you outsource -- I guess the more you insource, the more you give to interfoundry, the more reversals, right, you have to do on this NCI part, I would imagine. So is it a reasonable way to model how much of a headwind this is to your reported EPS?

是的。謝謝你，約翰。因此，對戴夫來說，也許這是一個非控制性權益。我認為大衛說今年的收入是 5 億到 7 億美元，所以我認為比之前的 7 億美元低一點。但隨後它開始成長到 12 億美元或 14 億美元。這個數字會一直持續增加嗎？例如，我們建模的正確方法是什麼，因為外包的越少——我想你內部外包的越多，你給代工廠的越多，逆轉就越多，對吧，我想你必須在這個NCI部分上做。那麼，這是否是一個合理的方法來模擬這對​​您報告的每股盈餘造成多大的不利影響？

Yes, it's a good question. I mean, just to break it all out, it's more than just the skips -- skip one and two are obviously in there, but also Mobileye shows up in noncontrolling interest. And as we sell down stakes in companies like Mobileye and Altera, it actually exacerbates that NCI. So Altera doesn't have any NCI, but as soon as we sell a stake, it is going to have NCI. So there are a number of things that go into it, which makes it a little bit difficult to forecast because you have to kind of know -- you have to know 2 things with certainty, one, exactly what share of every asset you have? And two, what your production is going to look like in the fabs that you have these skips.

是的，這是個好問題。我的意思是，只是為了將其全部分解，它不僅僅是跳過——跳過一和跳過二顯然在其中，而且 Mobileye 也出現在非控制性權益中。當我們出售 Mobileye 和 Altera 等公司的股份時，這實際上加劇了 NCI 的情況。因此，Altera 沒有任何 NCI，但只要我們出售股份，它就會擁有 NCI。因此，這其中涉及到很多因素，這使得預測變得有點困難，因為你必須知道——你必須確切地知道兩件事，第一，你擁有的每項資產的確切份額是多少？第二，在擁有這些跳過的工廠裡，你的生產會是什麼樣的呢？

So what we felt comfortable was, was guiding guiding '25 and giving you an indication for '26, it's likely to go up in '27. But I think it's probably too soon to actually identify what the exact number will look like.

因此，我們感到放心的是，指導'25 並為'26 提供指示，它可能會在'27 年上漲。但我認為現在確定具體數字可能還為時過早。

Thanks for that Jonathan. Can we have the next question, please?

謝謝喬納森。我們可以問下一個問題嗎？

Ben Reitzes from Melius

Melius 的 Ben Reitzes

Dave and MJ, I wanted to -- I know in your prepared remarks, you said you look forward to working with the Trump administration. I was wondering if you could just give a little more detail about your initial talks with them. Have they reached out? And who's like leading the discussions from your side? And any color on what you're exactly talking about and what they're particularly interested in? I mean Howard Lutnick, obviously, it sounds like this is very near and dear to him during his confirmation hearings and would love to just kind of get a little bit more color on where you -- what you have done so far and where you think it's going? And then I'll have a follow-up.

戴夫和 MJ，我想——我知道在你們準備好的發言中，你們說過期待與川普政府合作。我想知道您是否可以詳細介紹一下您與他們的初步談判情況。他們伸出援手了嗎？那你們那邊誰來主持討論？您具體在談論什麼以及他們特別感興趣的是什麼？我的意思是，霍華德·盧特尼克，顯然，這聽起來對他來說非常重要，在他的確認聽證會上，我很想更詳細地了解你到目前為止做了什麼，以及你認為進行中嗎？然後我會跟進。

Yes. Okay. Thanks, Ben. Maybe I'll take that as the co-CEO. yes, we have good engagement with them. We've really been engaged since the election, with the team at various levels, obviously, at the CEO level, but also we have a strong government affairs team that engages with them every day. I feel really good about their outlook on bringing semiconductor manufacturing back to the US. I think this is a very positive sign, obviously, for us.

是的。好的。謝謝，本。或許我會以聯合執行長的身份接受這個職位。是的，我們與他們保持著良好的合作關係。自大選以來，我們一直與各個級別的團隊保持密切合作，顯然，包括首席執行官級別，但我們也有一個強大的政府事務團隊，每天與他們保持聯繫。我對他們將半導體製造帶回美國的前景感到非常樂觀。我認為這對我們來說顯然是一個非常積極的信號。

Quite honestly, we never left the US. So we're in a kind of the pull position in that regard. And I think they understand the value of doing R&D in the US. for advanced semiconductor manufacturing, which also is positive. They want to see more jobs coming back to the US.

說實話，我們從未離開過美國。因此從這個方面來說，我們處於一種拉動的地位。我認為他們了解在美國進行研發的價值。對於先進的半導體製造而言，這也是正面的。他們希望看到更多的工作機會回流到美國。

We pay high wage, high-tech jobs. So that's obviously positive for them. But more importantly, this is about security, both in terms of just the supply chain but also in kind of secure manufacturing for the Department of Defense, which we're obviously in a position to do for them. I imagine that as we progress, we'll be more engaged with them to make this a reality. And both Michelle and I will be meeting fairly regularly with the Trump administration officials to go make their goals or reality for the US.

我們提供高薪、高科技的工作。所以這對他們來說顯然是積極的。但更重要的是，這關係到安全，不僅涉及供應鏈，還涉及國防部的安全製造，顯然我們有能力為他們做到這一點。我想，隨著我們的進步，我們將與他們進行更多的合作，以使這一目標成為現實。米歇爾和我將會定期與川普政府官員會面，共同努力幫助美國實現他們的目標。

Ben. You said you had a follow up.

本。您說您有後續行動。

I wanted to double-click on a prior question on gross margins and ask it a little bit more in caveman terms rather than incremental. You talked about being the bottom. I'm trying to figure out how high it goes sequentially as we go throughout the year, given -- it sounds like you're going to be a lot more price aggressive in server CPUs and client CPUs from what I heard. So in addition to -- I'm trying to balance that with the thought of outsourcing more to TSMC for the year, et cetera. So if that's the low point. I guess what I'm trying to say, can you be more prescriptive in light of that pricing comment I made and if it's right, then just give us a little more color on where we go from the 1Q, that would be great.

我想雙擊先前關於毛利率的問題，並以原始人的術語而不是增量的方式來詢問。您談到處於最底層。我想弄清楚，隨著全年的推移，價格會連續上漲多少，因為從我聽到的消息來看，你們在伺服器 CPU 和客戶端 CPU 方面的價格策略會更加激進。因此，除此之外——我還試圖平衡這一點，考慮今年將更多業務外包給台積電，等等。如果那就是最低點。我想說的是，您能否根據我做出的定價評論提供更多指導性意見，如果正確的話，請再給我們提供一些關於從第一季度開始我們將走向何處的詳細信息，那就太好了。

Yes, I mean, we tend to be competitive in the product space. And also, as I mentioned, the cost structure is under some pressure, in particular because of Lunar Lake. So that absolutely will impact the gross margins on products. There won't be a lot of lift in that business unit through the year. And it's really not until Panther Lake comes that they, I think, start to see some better cost structure and have a part that's very competitive that I think allows us to perhaps even relax some of that pressure in a competitive market. That said, the Foundry business will see improvements.

是的，我的意思是，我們在產品領域傾向於具有競爭力。而且正如我所提到的，成本結構面臨一些壓力，特別是因為Lunar Lake。所以絕對會影響產品的毛利率。今年該業務部門的業績不會有太大成長。我認為，直到 Panther Lake 出現之後，他們才開始看到更好的成本結構，並且擁有非常有競爭力的部分，我認為這讓我們甚至可以在競爭激烈的市場中緩解一些壓力。也就是說，代工業務將會看到改善。

Over the course of the year, more wafers will be coming back. With Panther Lake, it becomes even better in the following year. We are improving the cost structure of the foundry business as part of our overall spending reduction plan. So that will also help. And then just keep in mind, these wafers that we're producing at Intel and 18A have much better cost structure and margin structure relative, I should say, relative to the price structure than their predecessors and that will be beneficial on the foundry side.

今年內，將有更多的晶圓回歸。有了Panther Lake，明年它會變得更好。作為整體削減開支計劃的一部分，我們正在改善代工業務的成本結構。這也會有幫助。請記住，我們在英特爾和 18A 生產的這些晶圓相對於其前代產品具有更好的成本結構和利潤結構，我應該說，相對於價格結構，這對代工方面是有利的。

So in the caveman macro sense, I think the best thing to do is probably take this like somewhere in the 40% to 60% fall-through and that's probably the right rough order math to get you to where the margins will go in any quarter based on what you're projecting the revenue to be in that quarter.

因此，從原始人的宏觀角度來看，我認為最好的做法可能是將跌幅控制在 40% 到 60% 之間，這可能是正確的粗略順序計算，可以讓你了解任何季度的利潤率根據您對該季度營收的預測。

Thanks, Ben Jonathan. Can we have the next question, please?

謝謝，本·喬納森。我們可以問下一個問題嗎？

Aaron Rakers from Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的 Aaron Rakers。

Yeah, thanks for taking the question. I want to build off of that last question a little bit. During the prepared remarks, you had mentioned 1% in 2023 with EUV wafer mix and that progressed to north of 5% this year. Can you give us a framework of how you would define success looking through 2025, maybe exiting the year as far as EUV wafer mix? And remind us again what the delta is in terms of cost structure, the margin dynamics of an EUV wafer.

是的，感謝您回答這個問題。我想稍微延續一下最後一個問題。在準備好的發言中，您提到 2023 年 EUV 晶圓組合佔 1%，而今年這一比例已上升至 5% 以上。您能否提供我們一個框架，說明您如何定義 2025 年的成功，或許在今年底實現 EUV 晶圓組合？再次提醒我們，就成本結構而言，EUV 晶圓的利潤動態是多少。

Yes. Well, I'll say on the second part, maybe I'll answer that one first. I would say the price on those wafers goes up at 3x the cost of those -- sorry, maybe said -- the blended ASP and cost goes up 3x as you go to 18A versus the cost. So it's a pretty dramatic improvement in gross margins as you move into 18A versus pre-EUV wafers. Probably, it'd be tough for me to hazard a guess on exactly how we'll exit the year in terms of our percentage of EUV. It's definitely going to go up. [Branded] is on Intel3, Panther Lake is on -- Meteor Lake is on Intel3 or 4 -- 4 and 3 node; panther Lake is on 18A this year. So we'll see a pretty meaningful jump in the percentage of wafers that will be EUV as we exit '25.

是的。好吧，我想說第二部分，也許我會先回答這個問題。我想說這些晶圓的價格會上漲 3 倍，而這些晶圓的成本 — — 抱歉，也許這麼說過 — — 當電流達到 18A 時，混合 ASP 和成本會上漲 3 倍。因此，與 EUV 之前的晶圓相比，當您轉向 18A 晶圓時，毛利率會有相當顯著的增加。可能，對我來說，很難猜測我們今年的 EUV 百分比將會如何。它肯定會漲。 [品牌] 在 Intel3 上，Panther Lake 在 -- Meteor Lake 在 Intel3 或 4 上 -- 4 和 3 節點；今年，豹湖處於18A 級別。因此，當我們退出25年時，我們將看到EUV晶圓的比例有相當顯著的成長。

Aaron, do we have a follow-up question?

Aaron，我們還有其他問題嗎？

I do, and it's probably a dumb question, but I'm just going to ask it because I'm just a little confused that the Skip impact, this $500 million to $700 million going to $1.2 billion. Just remind us again, though we're all clear that when you report EPS on a non-GAAP basis, that's in that EPS number, just so we -- I'm modeling it correctly. I'm sure my my peers are already, but I want to make sure I've got that all clear in my head.

是的，這可能是個愚蠢的問題，但我還是要問，因為我對 Skip 的影響有點困惑，這 5 億美元到 7 億美元會變成 12 億美元嗎？再次提醒我們，雖然我們都清楚，當您以非 GAAP 基礎報告每股收益時，那就是每股收益數字，所以我們 - 我正在正確地對其進行建模。我確信我的同事已經知道了，但我想確保我已經清楚這一點。

Yeah, I just want to be clear. It's not just Skip. I mean that includes the Mobileye income and will include the Altera income to some extent. But yes, all of that in the NCI, we do take it against our non-GAAP number to get our fully diluted non-GAAP EPS number.

是的，我只是想說清楚。這不僅僅是Skip。我的意思是這包括Mobileye的收入，並且在某種程度上也包括Altera的收入。但是的，我們確實將 NCI 中的所有這些與非 GAAP 數字進行比較，以獲得完全稀釋的非 GAAP EPS 數字。

Aaron. Thank you, Jonathan. We have time for one more question.

亞倫。謝謝你，喬納森。我們還有時間再回答一個問題。

Srini Pajjuri from Raymond James.

雷蒙詹姆斯 (Raymond James) 的 Srini Pajjuri。

Dave, on the foundry breakeven, I guess, target for 2027. Maybe can you talk about what are the assumptions behind that? I mean do you think you can get there with mostly internal wafers? Or do you need external customers as well? If so, what sort of revenue do we need from external customers to, I guess, achieve that breakeven?

戴夫，我猜代工廠的損益平衡目標是 2027 年。也許您可以談談這背後的假設是什麼？我的意思是，您認為主要使用內部晶圓就能達到這個目的嗎？還是您也需要外部客戶？如果是這樣，我們需要從外部客戶那裡獲得什麼樣的收入才能達到收支平衡？

Yes. So we're still aiming to get to breakeven in 2017, as you pointed out. It's really on the back of internal wafers or wafers from Intel products, I should say. And it's obviously, a lot based on EUV wafers, which carry a better margin. And as that mix improves, that significantly improves the margins. But more importantly, I think the original premise by creating this different P&L structure was to drive the foundry business really at that point was just a function of manufacturing to be more focused on efficiency, to squeeze out more from the existing footprint, to be more sensitive to capital and ultimately, just think about ROIC in everything they do, and I think that has worked actually.

是的。因此，正如您所指出的，我們仍致力於在 2017 年實現收支平衡。我應該說，它確實位於內部晶圓或英特爾產品晶圓的背面。顯然，很大一部分是基於 EUV 晶圓，其利潤更高。隨著這種組合的改善，利潤率將顯著提高。但更重要的是，我認為創造這種不同的損益結構的初衷是為了推動代工業務，而那時的代工業務只是製造業的一個功能，更注重效率，從現有的足跡中榨取更多的利潤，對資本很敏感，最終，在做每件事時都考慮投資回報率，我認為這確實有效。

I mean I hear it all the time, it's amazing the transformation we've seen in staff meetings and Michelle and I that attend that, they're completely pivoted to how to make money in that business. And so I think it's working. I think we'll see significantly more efficiency as we go into work through '25 and into '26. So I feel good about our ability to get to breakeven. Obviously, we want to have external customers. And so we have some very small amount that we've assumed for '27. But if 18A looks like it's something that hunts based on feedback from customers. And I feel like we will probably outperform in that regard in terms of the mix of external customers versus internal customers. So those are all the factors that I think will drive '27 to profitability. And ultimately, obviously, we want to get to push -- to breakeven and ultimately we want to get the business to a profitable level that's consistent with what the foundry industry gets.

我的意思是我一直都聽到這樣的說法，我們在員工會議上看到的轉變令人驚嘆，參加會議的米歇爾和我都完全專注於如何在那項業務中賺錢。所以我認為它是有效的。我認為，隨著我們進入25年和26年的工作階段，我們將看到效率的顯著提高。因此我對於我們實現收支平衡的能力感到很滿意。顯然，我們希望擁有外部客戶。因此，我們假設 27 年的金額非常小。但如果 18A 看起來像是根據客戶的回饋來進行狩獵的話。我覺得，就外部客戶與內部客戶的組合而言，我們在這方面的表現可能會更佳。所以我認為這些都是推動'27實現獲利的因素。最終，顯然，我們希望實現收支平衡，並最終使業務達到與代工行業一致的盈利水平。

Srina. Do you have a quick follow on?

斯里娜。您有快速跟進嗎？

Yes. A quick one. So on the 18A Panther Lake, I think in the past, I think, Dave, the comment was that you expect to bring roughly 70% of the die in-house. Is that still the plan? And then is it pretty set in stone that you're bringing it back for sure? Or do you have any flexibility whether to bring back more of the die or less of the die if you need to. So just trying to understand.

是的。很快。因此，關於 18A Panther Lake，我想在過去，我認為，戴夫，你的評論是你希望將大約 70% 的晶片帶入內部。這還是計劃嗎？那麼，您肯定會把它帶回來嗎？或者，如果需要的話，您是否可以靈活地選擇帶回更多或更少的骰子。只是想了解一下。

I'm going to let Michelle answer that because it really is her decision on how she builds her products.

我請米歇爾來回答這個問題，因為如何打造她的產品確實是她自己的決定。

Yes. So we did move Panther Lake inside of 18A design win. But as I stated before, we look at each generation of products based on what's the right product, what's the right process, what's the right market window and what allows our customers to win. So for Panther Lake, that was 18A. And as I said, we're very happy with where we are from a performance and yield perspective at this point in the process. So that will stay on 18A. Then as you look forward, to our next-generation product for client after that, Nova Lake will actually have die both inside and outside for that process. So you'll actually see compute tiles inside and outside. Again, it's about optimizing to what allows us to win in the market, what allows us to win with our customers and optimizing the overall product portfolio because at the end of the day, if our customers are successful, we win, that drives more wafers and Intel Foundry and that allows us to win, but I'll continue to have a balance. And as I said, we'll be doing the same look across our data center portfolio as well.

是的。因此我們確實將 Panther Lake 移到了 18A 設計勝利之內。但正如我之前所說，我們根據什麼是正確的產品、什麼是正確的流程、什麼是正確的市場窗口以及如何讓我們的客戶獲勝來審視每一代產品。所以對 Panther Lake 來說，那就是 18A。正如我所說，我們對目前流程的效能和效益感到非常滿意。因此將保留 18A。然後，正如您所期望的，對於我們之後為客戶提供的下一代產品，Nova Lake 實際上將在內部和外部實現該過程。因此您實際上會看到內部和外部的計算圖塊。再次強調，優化讓我們贏得市場、贏得客戶並優化整體產品組合，因為歸根結底，如果我們的客戶成功了，我們就贏了，這將推動更多晶圓的生產和英特爾代工廠合作，這讓我們獲得了勝利，但我會繼續保持平衡。正如我所說的，我們也將對我們的資料中心產品組合進行同樣的檢視。

Great. Thanks, Michelle. So with that, let me wrap up by saying thank you, as always, for joining the call. MJ and I appreciate the opportunity to discuss our progress and the actions we've taken. Q4 was a good step forward, obviously, but we have a lot of hard work ahead of us, and we're looking forward to updating you as we go along. We hope to see many of you in person at the investors conferences we'll be attending in Q1. And I'd also like to highlight that the Intel foundry team will be hosting their second annual Direct Connect User event on April 29 in San Jose, and we hope many of you will join that in person. So thank you, and good night.

偉大的。謝謝，米歇爾。最後，請允許我像往常一樣，感謝您參加此次電話會議。MJ 和我很感謝有機會討論我們的進展和所採取的行動。顯然，Q4 向前邁出了一大步，但我們還有很多艱苦的工作要做，我們期待在進展過程中向您匯報最新情況。我們希望在第一季的投資者會議上親自見到你們。我還要強調的是，英特爾代工團隊將於 4 月 29 日在聖荷西舉辦第二屆年度直接連結使用者活動，我們希望你們中的許多人都能親自參加。謝謝你，晚安。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Good day.

女士們、先生們，感謝大家參加今天的會議。該計劃確實結束了。您現在可以斷開連線。再會。