Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (ERIC) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's presentation of the first quarter in 2023. With me today here in the studio, I have Carl Mellander, our Chief Financial Officer; and with me on a link from North America, I have Börje Ekholm, our President and CEO. So as usual, we will start this session with a presentation, and then we will end the hour with a Q&A session.

大家好，歡迎來到今天關於 2023 年第一季度的演講。今天在演播室的還有我們的首席財務官 Carl Mellander；和我一起從北美連線的是我們的總裁兼首席執行官 Börje Ekholm。因此，與往常一樣，我們將以演示開始本次會議，然後以問答環節結束這一小時。

And in order to ask questions, you have to join this conference by phone. Details on that can be found in today's press release as well as on our website, ericsson.com/investors. Please also be advised that today's conference call is recorded.

為了提出問題，您必須通過電話加入此會議。有關詳細信息，請參閱今天的新聞稿以及我們的網站 ericsson.com/investors。另請注意，今天的電話會議有錄音。

Before handing over to Börje and Carl, I would like to say the following. During today's presentation, we will be making forward-looking statements. These statements are based on our current expectations and certain planning assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that actual results may differ materially due to factors mentioned in today's press release and discussed in this conference call. We encourage you all to read about these risks and uncertainties in the earnings report published today as well as in our annual report.

在交給 Börje 和 Carl 之前，我想說以下幾點。在今天的演講中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述。這些陳述基於我們當前的預期和某些規劃假設，這些假設存在風險和不確定性，實際結果可能因今天新聞稿中提到的和本次電話會議中討論的因素而存在重大差異。我們鼓勵大家在今天發布的收益報告和我們的年度報告中閱讀這些風險和不確定性。

With that, I would like to hand over to you, Börje. So please, Börje.

有了這個，我想交給你，Börje。所以請 Börje。

Okay. Thank you, peter, and good morning, everyone. And a big thank you for joining us today. So we're excited to present the quarter in which we're executing on our strategy and we're making progress on our strategic goals, while at the same time delivering on what we set out as expectations for this first quarter. But before I go into the quarterly results, let me take this opportunity to just comment a bit on the news that we sent out last night. After having been almost 7 years on Ericsson's executive team and 25 years with Ericsson, Carl will actually be leaving our company. And it's no exaggeration to say that Carl has been critical in the turnaround of Ericsson and in laying the foundation for the next chapter of our strategy. And he's also been a great colleague and, of course, a great friend.

好的。謝謝你，彼得，大家早上好。非常感謝您今天加入我們。因此，我們很高興介紹我們執行戰略的季度，我們在戰略目標方面取得進展，同時實現我們對第一季度的預期。但在我進入季度業績之前，讓我藉此機會對我們昨晚發出的消息發表一些評論。在愛立信的執行團隊工作了將近 7 年，並在愛立信工作了 25 年之後，卡爾實際上將離開我們公司。可以毫不誇張地說，卡爾在愛立信的扭虧為盈和為我們戰略的下一章奠定基礎方面發揮了關鍵作用。他也是一位很棒的同事，當然，也是一位好朋友。

Now we have come to a mutual agreement that it's a good time or as good as any for a change at Ericsson as we continue, I'll call it a next chapter in our strategic journey. But I'm, of course, very happy that he will stay on in his role until the end of Q1 next year. And of course, that will ensure that we can execute on our cost savings but also a smooth transition. So really a big thank you to Carl for all his achievements and contributions here at Ericsson. You will be truly missed not only by me but all my colleagues at Ericsson. So a big thank you. And anything, Carl, at this point, you would like to comment on?

現在我們已經達成共識，隨著我們的繼續，現在是愛立信變革的好時機，或者與任何變革一樣好，我將其稱為我們戰略旅程的下一章。但我當然很高興他將繼續擔任他的職務直到明年第一季度末。當然，這將確保我們能夠節省成本，同時實現平穩過渡。非常感謝卡爾在愛立信的所有成就和貢獻。不僅是我，愛立信的所有同事都會非常想念您。非常感謝。還有什麼，卡爾，在這一點上，你想評論什麼？

Thanks a lot, Börje, and thanks, very kind words also. As you said, I mean, there's not really a good time to leave a fantastic company like Ericsson or a position like the one I've had the privilege or having now for almost 7 years. But we find it's the right time now, and let's see what the future brings. It's been an incredible journey and a fantastic privilege to work with all the great people in Ericsson and of course outside our company with partners, customers and the investors and analysts as well on this call. So thanks all. But luckily, I will be here for almost another year. So we shall see each other again. Thank you, Börje.

非常感謝，Börje，也非常感謝。正如你所說，我的意思是，現在不是離開像愛立信這樣出色的公司的好時機，也不是離開我有幸擁有或擁有近 7 年的職位的好時機。但我們發現現在正是時候，讓我們看看未來會怎樣。與愛立信的所有優秀人才一起工作，當然還有我們公司外部的合作夥伴、客戶、投資者和分析師，以及這次電話會議，這是一段令人難以置信的旅程，也是一種莫大的榮幸。所以謝謝大家。但幸運的是，我將在這裡待上將近一年。所以我們會再見面的。謝謝你，伯傑。

Thank you, Carl. So back to Q1. So the quarter developed in line with what we communicated during our Q4 report. As we expected, Q1 has been a challenging quarter due to slower deployment pace in some early 5G markets. But this has, of course, been compounded with the fact that customers in those markets are lowering their inventories. And so that's the reason the impact on our sales is bigger than the slowdown in the underlying deployment phase. We will continue to see inventory adjustments during Q2, but we expect less impact after that, but there could be some smaller effect during Q3.

謝謝你，卡爾。回到第一季度。因此，本季度的發展與我們在第四季度報告中傳達的內容一致。正如我們預期的那樣，由於一些早期 5G 市場的部署速度放緩，第一季度是一個充滿挑戰的季度。但是，當然，這些市場的客戶正在降低庫存這一事實使情況更加複雜。因此，這就是對我們銷售的影響大於基礎部署階段放緩的原因。我們將在第二季度繼續看到庫存調整，但我們預計此後影響較小，但在第三季度可能會有一些較小的影響。

As the inventory adjustments will be completed, we also expect a recovery during the second half, but second half will also be supported by our cost savings initiatives, clearly. So this development impacts growth in Networks negatively as we saw the early 5G market slowdown, we now see a buildup of the next wave of markets. And here, margins are a bit lower due to large service content. We could see that growth in other segments offset the slower -- or the lower sales in networks, but all in all in line with our expectations and what we communicated during the Q4 report.

由於庫存調整將完成，我們也預計下半年會出現復甦，但顯然下半年也將得到我們成本節約舉措的支持。因此，隨著我們看到早期 5G 市場放緩，這種發展對網絡的增長產生了負面影響，我們現在看到下一波市場正在形成。在這裡，由於服務內容龐大，利潤率略低。我們可以看到其他細分市場的增長抵消了網絡銷售的放緩或下降，但總的來說符合我們的預期以及我們在第四季度報告中傳達的信息。

But let me start now by giving some highlights from the quarter. So we're making progress on our strategy to strengthen our leadership in Mobile Networks, grow our Enterprise business and drive a continued cultural transformation. As you saw and as you all know, in the quarter we reached a resolution with the DOJ regarding contractual noncriminal breaches of our 2019 deferred prosecution agreement. This was, of course, a critical step for us, allowing us to move forward, and we can now continue to make great progress on our compliance program.

但是，讓我現在開始介紹本季度的一些亮點。因此，我們正在加強我們在移動網絡領域的領導地位、發展我們的企業業務並推動持續的文化轉型的戰略方面取得進展。正如你們所看到的和你們都知道的那樣，在本季度，我們與司法部就合同非刑事違反我們 2019 年延期起訴協議的行為達成了一項決議。當然，這對我們來說是關鍵的一步，使我們能夠向前邁進，我們現在可以繼續在我們的合規計劃上取得重大進展。

Overall, financial performance was in line with what we expected and what we've communicated. So while overall sales were flat, we saw an organic growth of 5% in Cloud Software and Services and 19% in Enterprise. And notably now, the Enterprise segment now represents almost 10% of sales. So we completed also the divestiture of our IoT platform business. This will reduce quarterly losses by about SEK 250 million going forward.

總體而言，財務業績符合我們的預期和我們所傳達的內容。因此，雖然整體銷售額持平，但我們看到雲軟件和服務實現了 5% 的有機增長，企業實現了 19% 的有機增長。值得注意的是，企業部門現在幾乎佔銷售額的 10%。因此，我們還完成了物聯網平台業務的剝離。這將使未來的季度虧損減少約 2.5 億瑞典克朗。

As expected, in Networks, we saw strong growth in India, where we continue to roll out 5G at pace. This growth, however, did not fully offset the slower deployment pace, compounded by the inventory adjustments in the early 5G markets. We see that some customers are reducing the rollout pace somewhat, but the big effect really comes from the ongoing inventory adjustments, and that comes because they build up large inventories when supply chain was tight and those inventory levels are now normalizing. We expect these adjustments to be completed during Q2, but some could slip into Q3 clearly.

正如預期的那樣，在網絡方面，我們在印度看到了強勁的增長，我們繼續在印度快速推出 5G。然而，這種增長並沒有完全抵消較慢的部署速度，早期 5G 市場的庫存調整加劇了這種情況。我們看到一些客戶在一定程度上降低了推出速度，但最大的影響確實來自持續的庫存調整，這是因為他們在供應鏈緊張時積累了大量庫存，而這些庫存水平現在正在正常化。我們預計這些調整將在二季度完成，但有些調整可能會明顯滑入三季度。

In Cloud Software and Services, we continue to execute on our revised strategy and reduced our losses a bit ahead of our plan. So while results would vary between quarters, we are on track to reach our target of breakeven in 2023. We're also making good progress on our cost efficiency initiatives, and we have identified additional savings opportunities of about SEK 2 billion. And now we plan to reduce cost run rate by SEK 11 billion by year-end. The best indicator of cost savings is that we get external and internal headcount down. During the first quarter, overall workforce fell by about 800. But if we adjust for adjustment -- for investments in Enterprise as well as India, the reduction was about 1,700 internal and external headcount. But of course, this is something that we continue to work on and we expect to accelerate during the coming quarters.

在雲軟件和服務方面，我們繼續執行修改後的戰略，並比我們的計劃提前減少了損失。因此，雖然每個季度的結果會有所不同，但我們有望在 2023 年實現收支平衡的目標。我們在成本效率計劃方面也取得了良好進展，我們已經確定了約 20 億瑞典克朗的額外節省機會。現在我們計劃在年底前將成本運行率降低 110 億瑞典克朗。成本節約的最佳指標是我們減少了外部和內部員工人數。第一季度，整體勞動力減少了約 800 人。但如果我們調整調整——對於企業和印度的投資，減少的內部和外部員工人數約為 1,700 人。但當然，這是我們繼續努力的事情，我們希望在未來幾個季度加速。

In a situation with a choppy outlook, we need of course to focus on what we can impact and cost efficiency is crucial to manage the uncertainties during 2023. But I will also say cost efficiency is critical for our long-term competitiveness. And we will continue to track our development on the cost savings and we'll report on our progress as we move along. Carl will cover more of the financial performance shortly, but let me touch upon some of the critical steps we took in our strategic ambitions in Enterprise.

在前景不明朗的情況下，我們當然需要關注我們能產生的影響，而成本效率對於管理 2023 年的不確定性至關重要。但我還要說，成本效率對於我們的長期競爭力至關重要。我們將繼續跟踪我們在成本節約方面的進展，並在我們前進的過程中報告我們的進展。 Carl 將在短期內介紹更多財務業績，但讓我談談我們在 Enterprise 的戰略目標中採取的一些關鍵步驟。

We are in the midst of a journey where we're leveraging our capabilities in Mobile Networks to shape the future industry landscape by creating network API platform, which will redefine our addressable market and actually redefine our industry. In Q1, it was exciting to see a couple of tangible steps in this ambition. So last year, you all know we tested Ericsson Dynamic and User Boost with SmarTone in Hong Kong, which gave indications of it can be done and it gives -- or which showed that it can be done and gave indications of users' willingness to pay for network API.

我們正處於一段旅程中，我們正在利用我們在移動網絡方面的能力，通過創建網絡 API 平台來塑造未來的行業格局，這將重新定義我們的潛在市場，並實際上重新定義我們的行業。在第一季度，我們很高興看到為實現這一雄心而採取的一些切實步驟。所以去年，你們都知道我們在香港用數碼通測試了 Ericsson Dynamic 和 User Boost，這表明它可以做到並且它給出了 - 或者它表明它可以做到並且表明用戶願意支付用於網絡 API。

And at this year's Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, we showcased the world's first multi-operator, quality of service network API together with Telefonica, Orange and Vodafone on their commercial networks. And this allowed us to demonstrate how advanced mobile network functionality can be exposed to and easily consumed by the global developer community. This was truly a critical step showcasing our ability to drive the evolution of this market, and we actually see a great interest from enterprises as well as operators.

在今年的巴塞羅那移動世界大會上，我們與 Telefonica、Orange 和 Vodafone 在其商業網絡上展示了世界上第一個多運營商、服務質量網絡 API。這使我們能夠展示高級移動網絡功能如何向全球開發者社區公開並輕鬆使用。這確實是展示我們推動該市場發展能力的關鍵一步，我們實際上看到了企業和運營商的極大興趣。

So network APIs were really a big topic at the Mobile World Congress, and we are at the forefront of this new market, which we are defining together with our customers and especially front running customers. The winners in this evolution will be those that are able to first scale their platform. We anticipate the first revenues late this year, which will position us for a revenue ramp and growth during 2024 and '25 as our transformation into a platform company accelerates. Like all new markets, it will take some time to build this new market as well, but we believe it can actually develop faster and grow bigger than the market for traditional communication APIs and it will position Ericsson for a long-term growth and profitability.

因此，網絡 API 在世界移動通信大會上確實是一個大話題，我們處於這個新市場的最前沿，我們正在與我們的客戶，尤其是前端客戶一起定義這個市場。這種演變的贏家將是那些能夠首先擴展其平台的人。我們預計今年晚些時候將獲得第一筆收入，隨著我們加速向平台公司轉型，這將使我們在 2024 年和 25 年期間實現收入增長和增長。與所有新市場一樣，建立這個新市場也需要一些時間，但我們相信它實際上可以比傳統通信 API 市場發展得更快、規模更大，這將使愛立信獲得長期增長和盈利能力。

Let me now comment a bit on the Enterprise Wireless Solutions as well, which is the other pillar in our Enterprise strategy. Today, all of our losses in Enterprise segment really comes from Enterprise Wireless Solutions. And that's expected for a couple of reasons. First of all, Cradlepoint has a subscription business model with upfront payments for an average 3-year contracts. Revenues and gross profits are deferred and recognized monthly over the contract period. This leads to an initial negative impact on EBITDA as a large part of the gross profit is deferred while the absolute majority of OpEx investments are taken directly in the P&L, and OpEx being both offerings, cost for R&D as well as the go-to-market organization. As we grow, this will basically mean that we will generate a loss for accounting reasons, but long-term, business area -- this business area has a very attractive profitability profile.

現在讓我也談談企業無線解決方案，這是我們企業戰略的另一個支柱。今天，我們在企業部門的所有損失實際上都來自企業無線解決方案。這是出於幾個原因的預期。首先，Cradlepoint 有一個訂閱業務模式，平均 3 年期合同需要預付款。收入和毛利潤在合同期內按月遞延和確認。這導致了對 EBITDA 的初步負面影響，因為大部分毛利被遞延，而絕大部分 OpEx 投資直接用於損益表，OpEx 既是產品、研發成本，也是 go-to-市場組織。隨著我們的成長，這基本上意味著我們將出於會計原因產生虧損，但從長遠來看，業務領域——這個業務領域具有非常有吸引力的盈利能力。

But we're also incurring some investments, we're scaling our go-to-market organization globally. We believe it's critical to establish a dedicated go-to-market towards enterprises to be successful in this area but also to leverage the technology we developed in the Mobile Networks business. But we're also investing in new product solutions. And as an example, you saw in this quarter, we acquired Ericom, which we will use to accelerate our security offerings. So we now have the capabilities to build a full stack security solution optimized for 5G. We continue to see good traction with Cradlepoint, showing good organic growth as we work to fully scale this business. And we are starting to see some very interesting use cases for our dedicated networks in manufacturing. But I would still say that's a rather early market and not particularly big yet.

但我們也進行了一些投資，我們正在全球範圍內擴展我們的上市組織。我們認為，要在這一領域取得成功，必須建立專門的市場准入機制，同時還要利用我們在移動網絡業務中開發的技術。但我們也在投資新產品解決方案。例如，您在本季度看到，我們收購了 Ericom，我們將利用它來加速我們的安全產品。因此，我們現在有能力構建針對 5G 優化的全棧安全解決方案。我們繼續看到 Cradlepoint 的良好吸引力，在我們努力全面擴展這項業務時顯示出良好的有機增長。我們開始看到一些非常有趣的用例，這些用例適用於我們在製造業中的專用網絡。但我仍然會說這是一個相當早的市場，還不是特別大。

With that, let me hand over to you, Carl, for drilling down into the numbers.

有了這個，讓我交給你，卡爾，深入研究這些數字。

Thank you, Börje. And again, very good morning to everyone. Thanks for joining the call. So I thought just to reiterate a couple of the key points regarding the business and the result, we can stay perhaps on this title slide for a second while I do that. First of all, this sales mix shift in Networks that we have, so clearly guided for, continued than in the first quarter. And customer CapEx as well as inventory adjustments happened as we forecasted there in some of these early adopter, early 5G markets.

謝謝你，伯傑。再一次，大家早上好。感謝您加入電話會議。所以我只想重申關於業務和結果的幾個關鍵點，我們可以在這張標題幻燈片上停留一秒鐘，而我這樣做。首先，我們已經明確指導的這種網絡銷售組合轉變比第一季度繼續。正如我們預測的那樣，客戶資本支出和庫存調整髮生在一些早期採用者、早期 5G 市場中。

At the same time, we had strong growth in markets where the massive 5G rollouts have begun more recently. And of course, we have a big share of services also in this large rollout projects. And when it comes to this inventory adjustment, we saw a big impact in the first quarter. That's clear. We expect continued inventory adjustments in the second quarter. But now with the visibility we have with customers, not least North America, we expect this then to flatten out or normalize from Q3 and onwards.

與此同時，我們在最近開始大規模推出 5G 的市場中實現了強勁增長。當然，我們在這個大型推出項目中也有很大一部分服務。談到這次庫存調整，我們在第一季度看到了很大的影響。這很清楚。我們預計二季度庫存將繼續調整。但現在，隨著我們對客戶（尤其是北美）的了解，我們預計這將從第三季度及以後趨於平緩或正常化。

And then, of course, a negative impact of this on Networks gross margin was as we expected and as we guided for as well. But I think it's worth noticing the incredible speed of rollout in India. And for us, India now is the second largest market for Ericsson in terms of sales numbers. It has grown by 5x year-over-year, so now almost SEK 7 billion in revenue in India in the first quarter. At the same time, North America decreased by SEK 4 billion. So there you can clearly see the shift in the business mix.

然後，當然，這對網絡毛利率的負面影響正如我們預期的那樣，也正如我們所指導的那樣。但我認為值得注意的是在印度推出的驚人速度。對我們來說，就銷售額而言，印度現在是愛立信的第二大市場。它同比增長了 5 倍，因此目前第一季度在印度的收入接近 70 億瑞典克朗。與此同時，北美減少了 40 億瑞典克朗。所以你可以清楚地看到業務組合的轉變。

Cloud Software and Service is then better than expectation. That's good. It's really a stepping stone towards the breakeven target for the full year. And then within Enterprise, global communication platform, that's where Vonage belongs. That delivered sales of SEK 3.9 billion in the quarter and a breakeven result of 0 EBITDA from that part. And then the other section of Enterprise, Enterprise Wireless Solutions where Cradlepoint is a part, grew by 60% in the quarter. That's going well. With the loss, as Börje explained then, it's SEK 0.8 billion in the quarter for the reasons that Börje said, and thoughtful investment both in product and go-to-market.

雲軟件和服務好於預期。那挺好的。這確實是實現全年盈虧平衡目標的墊腳石。然後在企業內部，全球通信平台，這就是 Vonage 所屬的地方。這在該季度實現了 39 億瑞典克朗的銷售額，該部分的盈虧平衡結果為 0 EBITDA。然後是企業的另一個部分，即 Cradlepoint 所在的企業無線解決方案，該部分在本季度增長了 60%。一切順利。正如 Börje 當時解釋的那樣，由於 Börje 所說的原因，本季度虧損為 8 億瑞典克朗，並且在產品和上市方面進行了深思熟慮的投資。

If we go to the next slide and look a little bit at the geographies then. You can very clearly here see what we're talking about in the shift. You see 132% growth in our market area, Southeast Asia, Oceania and India, primarily, of course, driven by the market share gains in India but also other project milestone completions in other -- in Southeast Asian markets there. The decline, on the other hand, then in North America, you see was 26% as a consequence of what we just described. And of course, coming from elevated investment levels both in 2021 but notably in 2022.

如果我們轉到下一張幻燈片，然後稍微看一下地理位置。您可以在這裡非常清楚地看到我們在轉變中談論的內容。您會看到我們的市場區域、東南亞、大洋洲和印度增長了 132%，這當然主要是受到印度市場份額增長的推動，但也受到其他東南亞市場其他項目里程碑完成的推動。另一方面，由於我們剛才描述的情況，您看到在北美下降了 26%。當然，這要歸功於 2021 年但尤其是 2022 年的高投資水平。

Europe declined by 16% organically, also high -- following high investments in 2022. But encouraging to see the growth in Latin America, where we grew by 6% driven by 5G deployments across the continent. Northeast Asia declined organically then by 19%, also compared with elevated 5G investment levels happening this time last year. And then lastly, Middle East and Africa, a decrease of 8%, partly driven by timing of 5G investments but also by some economic challenges in some parts of the African countries.

歐洲在 2022 年的高投資之後有機地下降了 16%，也很高。但令人鼓舞的是看到拉丁美洲的增長，在整個大陸 5G 部署的推動下，我們增長了 6%。與去年同期 5G 投資水平上升相比，東北亞隨後有機下降 19%。最後是中東和非洲，下降了 8%，部分原因是 5G 投資的時機，但也受到非洲國家某些地區的一些經濟挑戰的影響。

If we look at how this then came out in the group P&L, you see the sales number here, SEK 62.6 billion. And that's a flat growth organically, and with organic now, I mean excluding investments, acquisitions and divestments but also adjusted for currency fluctuations. But underneath the growth of Enterprise of 19%, a growth in Cloud Software and Services by 5%, but then again 2% down in the Networks for the reasons discussed earlier. And the impact of this shift is visible also on the gross margin. You see down 250 basis points to 39.8% excluding restructuring charges for the same reason. Gross margin, however, was positively impacted, I should also say, in the quarter by higher IPR revenues, where we have good expectations for the future as well, we can come back to that, and also higher software share in the sales mix.

如果我們看看這在集團損益表中是如何產生的，你會看到這裡的銷售額，626 億瑞典克朗。這是一個持平的有機增長，現在有機增長，我的意思是不包括投資、收購和撤資，但也要根據貨幣波動進行調整。但在企業增長 19% 的情況下，雲軟件和服務增長了 5%，但由於前面討論的原因，網絡再次下降了 2%。這種轉變對毛利率的影響也很明顯。出於同樣的原因，不包括重組費用，您會看到下降 250 個基點至 39.8%。然而，我還應該說，本季度毛利率受到了更高的知識產權收入的積極影響，我們對未來也有良好的預期，我們可以回到這一點，以及銷售組合中更高的軟件份額。

In Cloud Software and Services here, we had a gross margin, excluding restructuring again, 36.1%. That's up from 35% a year ago. And this was supported by a higher share of software, which is obviously exactly in line with our strategy there. And then on Enterprise, gross margin was 47.6%, down from 55%. But that's really due to the consolidation of Vonage into the Ericsson books. But sequentially, and I think that's important, gross margin improved in this segment, not least by improving margins in the Global Communication Platform, which again includes Vonage.

在這裡的雲軟件和服務中，我們的毛利率為 36.1%，再次不包括重組。這比一年前的 35% 有所上升。這得到了更高份額的軟件的支持，這顯然完全符合我們在那裡的戰略。然後在 Enterprise 上，毛利率為 47.6%，低於 55%。但這實際上是由於將 Vonage 合併到愛立信的賬簿中。但隨後，我認為這很重要，這一細分市場的毛利率有所提高，尤其是通過提高全球通信平台的利潤率，該平台再次包括 Vonage。

Both R&D and SG&A increased year-over-year. But again, key to understand here is the consolidation of Vonage into the numbers. Obviously, Vonage was not here last Q1. So that needs to be understood. And about 70% of the increase you see here on these 2 OpEx lines comes from the Vonage consolidation. There's also an FX component, and the remainder is really, as discussed before then, the Enterprise Wireless Solution investment we do in future growth of that business.

研發和 SG&A 均同比增長。但同樣，這裡要理解的關鍵是將 Vonage 整合到數字中。顯然，上一季度 Vonage 不在這裡。所以這需要理解。您在這裡看到的這 2 條 OpEx 生產線上大約 70% 的增長來自 Vonage 整合。還有一個 FX 組件，其餘部分實際上是，正如之前所討論的那樣，我們為該業務的未來增長所做的企業無線解決方案投資。

In the first quarter, we recorded restructuring charges of material size for the first time in a long time, about SEK 1 billion, obviously related to the cost actions that we are taking. So all in all, this resulted in an EBITA excluding restructuring of SEK 4.8 billion, which is in line with the guidance and our expectations there.

在第一季度，我們長期以來首次記錄了重大規模的重組費用，約為 10 億瑞典克朗，這顯然與我們正在採取的成本行動有關。因此，總而言之，這導致不包括重組的 EBITA 為 48 億瑞典克朗，這符合那裡的指導和我們的預期。

On the next slide, we can have a look at how these earnings then convert into cash flow. And you all remember, in Q4, we had an exceptionally strong free cash flow before M&A. Now as expected, Q1 was weaker at minus SEK 8 billion of free cash flow before M&A. A couple of things there that explains this. First of all, as a seasonal effect during the first quarter every year, we do pay out incentives to staff from accrued employee expenses the quarter before. But more importantly and more related to business, the business mix shift that we talk about also comes through in working capital, hence, in cash flow as well. And there are a couple of effects there, of course, with large rollout, projects -- project inventory goes up. But we also have some extended payment terms, and that shows up on customer financing line in the balance sheet. But -- and we also have larger payments to suppliers related to these contracts than in other places of the world. So the mix shift also impacted working capital and therefore cash flow.

在下一張幻燈片中，我們可以看看這些收入是如何轉化為現金流的。你們都記得，在第四季度，我們在併購之前擁有異常強勁的自由現金流。正如預期的那樣，第一季度在併購前的自由現金流為負 80 億瑞典克朗。有幾件事可以解釋這一點。首先，作為每年第一季度的季節性影響，我們確實會從前一個季度的應計員工費用中向員工支付獎勵。但更重要且與業務更相關的是，我們談論的業務組合轉變也體現在營運資本中，因此也體現在現金流中。當然，隨著大型項目的推出，項目庫存會增加，這會產生一些影響。但我們也有一些延長的付款期限，這會出現在資產負債表的客戶融資額度上。但是——我們還向與這些合同相關的供應商支付了比世界其他地方更多的款項。因此，混合轉變也影響了營運資金，從而影響了現金流。

I can mention also just for planning purposes, the DOJ payment of USD 207 million was made in Q2. It was on April 6, so that's not included in Q1, but in Q2 numbers.

我還可以提到，僅出於計劃目的，美國司法部在第二季度支付了 2.07 億美元。那是在 4 月 6 日，所以這不包括在第一季度，但包括在第二季度的數字中。

On a rolling basis, though, free cash flow before M&A was SEK 15.8 billion. But still at 5.7% of net sales versus our target of 9% to 12% for the long term, is, of course, not where we want to be both from a profitability point of view leading into cash flow, but also the working capital situation. And we are working very hard to restore this back to improved levels in line with our target. And of course, our focus on managing working capital continues with full force going forward as well. But again, with large rollout projects and the shifts that we talk about, we do build working capital temporarily. We will, of course, keep the machinery as efficient as we ever can in Ericsson. And I think we have proven that before that we can do that.

不過，在滾動基礎上，併購前的自由現金流為 158 億瑞典克朗。但仍然占淨銷售額的 5.7%，而我們的長期目標是 9% 到 12%，當然，從盈利能力的角度來看，這不是我們想要的，這既會導致現金流，也會產生營運資金情況。我們正在非常努力地根據我們的目標將其恢復到更高的水平。當然，我們對管理營運資金的關注也將繼續全力推進。但同樣，隨著大型推出項目和我們談論的轉變，我們確實會暫時建立營運資金。當然，我們將盡可能保持愛立信的機器效率。而且我認為我們已經證明我們可以做到這一點。

If we move now to the outlook for the future, not least second quarter here. And as we have said, and Börje expressed this also, 2023 has some uncertainty. In the second quarter, we expect operators to remain cautious with CapEx similar to Q1 and continue with the inventory adjustment that we have described. On top line, we expect this to be offset to a large extent by these large new rollout projects in 5G, but with a dilutive impact on gross margins short term. Enterprise segment is, of course, a high-growth area with a very strong long-term trajectory. But also that sector is impacted by macroeconomic factors, and we see that continuing in Q2 like it did in the first quarter.

如果我們現在轉向未來展望，尤其是第二季度。正如我們所說，Börje 也表達了這一點，2023 年有一些不確定性。在第二季度，我們預計運營商將像第一季度一樣對資本支出保持謹慎，並繼續進行我們所描述的庫存調整。最重要的是，我們預計這將在很大程度上被 5G 中的這些大型新推出項目所抵消，但短期內會對毛利率產生稀釋影響。當然，企業部門是一個具有非常強勁的長期發展軌蹟的高增長領域。但該行業也受到宏觀經濟因素的影響，我們看到第二季度繼續像第一季度一樣。

But to mitigate all of this, of course, we are working on what we can control, as Börje said. And we have increased the cost-out effort and ambition from SEK 9 billion to SEK 11 billion as a run rate as we exit 2023. And given now this restructuring program or cost-out program, we have restructuring charges SEK 1 billion in the quarter, as I said. Going forward for the full year, early estimates are that it could amount to about SEK 7 billion, of which half or even more than half might be booked in the second quarter in the books. But we will come back to that, of course. Next year, though, restructuring charges will normalize around 0.5% of net sales according to the plan.

但是，正如 Börje 所說，為了減輕這一切，我們當然正在努力控制我們可以控制的事情。到 2023 年，我們已將成本削減工作和雄心從 90 億瑞典克朗增加到 110 億瑞典克朗作為運行率。鑑於現在這個重組計劃或成本削減計劃，我們在本季度有 10 億瑞典克朗的重組費用， 就像我說的。展望全年，初步估計可能達到 70 億瑞典克朗左右，其中一半甚至超過一半可能會在第二季度入帳。但是，我們當然會回到這一點。不過明年，重組費用將根據計劃正常化為淨銷售額的 0.5% 左右。

The P&L effect of cost-out will take time to see. We know that from experience, and that's how it works. So of course, we will report on the progress of this every quarter, but expect limited impact in the P&L in the beginning and then a gradual impact over time.

成本支出的損益影響需要時間才能看到。我們從經驗中知道這一點，這就是它的工作原理。所以當然，我們每個季度都會報告這方面的進展，但預計一開始對損益表的影響有限，然後隨著時間的推移逐漸產生影響。

Continuing on this slide, and I'll wrap up soon. Average net sales seasonality from Q1 to Q2 is a growth of 12% if you look at the last 3 years' average. This is applicable both for Networks and Cloud Software and Services. However, this time for Networks, we expect Q2 sales to be in line with Q1, and for Cloud Software and Services, we expect the seasonality to be somewhat lower this year than the normal 12%.

繼續這張幻燈片，我很快就會結束。如果您查看過去 3 年的平均值，從第一季度到第二季度的平均淨銷售額季節性增長 12%。這適用於網絡和雲軟件和服務。然而，這一次對於網絡，我們預計第二季度的銷售額將與第一季度持平，而對於雲軟件和服務，我們預計今年的季節性將略低於正常的 12%。

Next, on gross margin, we are specific in the guidance here for Networks, And we say we expect gross margin in Networks to be between 37% and 39% in the second quarter, mainly as a result of the business mix that we have talked about. But we expect a gradual recovery going forward in the second half regarding that gross margin. OpEx, the typical increase Q1 to Q2 is SEK 1.5 billion up, large variations between quarters but that's a reference. And then the result of all of this EBITA excluding restructuring or EBITA margin, I should say, for Q2, we are -- we expect now and we guide for mid-single-digit as a result of this declining margins in Networks due to the changing business mix.

接下來，關於毛利率，我們在此處針對網絡的具體指導，我們說我們預計第二季度網絡的毛利率將在 37% 至 39% 之間，這主要是由於我們談到的業務組合關於。但我們預計下半年毛利率將逐步復甦。 OpEx，Q1 到 Q2 的典型增長是 15 億瑞典克朗，季度之間差異很大，但這是一個參考。然後所有這些 EBITA 的結果不包括重組或 EBITA 利潤率，我應該說，對於第二季度，我們 - 我們現在預計並且由於網絡利潤率下降導致我們指導中個位數改變業務組合。

To close off, I want to end with this slide. This is taken from our Capital Markets Day we had in December, updated with actuals though. And this shows the components in the path towards the 2024 target, an EBITDA margin of 15% to 18%, you're well familiar with that already. So uncertainty on 2023, we've said that. But we do believe that the underlying traffic growth in Networks will stimulate and drive continued investments. That's one strong factor here. And therefore, we expect this gradual recovery in 2023 second half and into 2024. And this path, as you see here and know already, is also supported by higher IPR revenues. And then finally, in the other bucket that we have combined a lot of effects, both pluses and minuses there. But we have, of course, changing market mix from footprint gains but also countered by improved profitability across all segments with operational leverage from growth, et cetera.

最後，我想以這張幻燈片結束。這取自我們 12 月份的資本市場日，不過根據實際情況進行了更新。這顯示了實現 2024 年目標的組成部分，EBITDA 利潤率為 15% 至 18%，您已經很熟悉了。所以 2023 年的不確定性，我們已經說過了。但我們確實相信，網絡中潛在的流量增長將刺激並推動持續投資。這是這裡的一個重要因素。因此，我們預計這種逐步復甦將在 2023 年下半年和 2024 年實現。正如您在這裡看到並且已經知道的那樣，這條道路也得到更高的知識產權收入的支持。最後，在另一個桶中，我們結合了很多效果，既有優點也有缺點。但是，當然，我們已經從足跡收益中改變了市場組合，但也通過增長等方面的運營槓桿提高了所有部門的盈利能力。

So in total, we remain steadfast in this target to reach the lower end by 2024 of the target EBITDA margin, 15% to 18%.

因此，總的來說，我們仍然堅定地實現這一目標，到 2024 年達到目標 EBITDA 利潤率的下限，即 15% 至 18%。

With that, thank you so much. And I hand back to you, Börje.

有了這個，非常感謝你。我還給你，Börje。

Thank you, Carl. So our strategy we continue to implement, and we're starting to see the positive signs that it's working. So we're well positioned now to capture the full value of 5G and to create a stronger and more profitable Ericsson with a larger addressable market. And it's critical for our long-term success that we build out a profitable enterprise business. Executing on our strategy to build technology leadership in Mobile Networks, establish an Ericsson -- or an enterprise business for Ericsson and driving a cultural change are our 3 main priorities going forward.

謝謝你，卡爾。因此，我們繼續實施我們的戰略，我們開始看到它正在發揮作用的積極跡象。因此，我們現在處於有利地位，可以充分發揮 5G 的價值，並通過更大的潛在市場打造更強大、利潤更高的愛立信。建立有利可圖的企業業務對於我們的長期成功至關重要。執行我們在移動網絡領域建立技術領導地位的戰略，建立愛立信——或愛立信的企業業務，並推動文化變革是我們未來的 3 個主要優先事項。

So we are confident in our strategic position, but we also see that 2023 will be a choppy year, as we have earlier said. We expect a gradual recovery in the second half as we expect the inventory adjustments at our customers to be completed and that we start to see the benefit of our, call it, cost savings initiatives flow through the -- or gradually flow through the P&L. Longer term, based on historic experiences, we also expect to see investments or network investments recover as the underlying traffic growth continues at a very high rate and more capacity will be needed.

因此，我們對我們的戰略定位充滿信心，但我們也看到 2023 年將是波濤洶湧的一年，正如我們之前所說。我們預計下半年將逐步復甦，因為我們預計客戶的庫存調整將完成，並且我們開始看到我們稱之為成本節約計劃的好處流過 - 或逐漸流過損益表。從長遠來看，根據歷史經驗，我們還預計隨著潛在流量繼續以非常高的速度增長並且需要更多容量，投資或網絡投資將恢復。

So if we look beyond 2023, we see that the expected normalization or recovery of the Mobile Networks market, we see the turnaround of Cloud Software and Services that we can continue to grow our IPR revenues as well as reap the full benefit of the cost initiatives and the other actions we're driving puts us on track to reach the lower end of our long-term targets by 2024. So with that, I just want to end by thanking all the fantastic people at Ericsson, who made this position possible. A big thank you from me.

因此，如果我們展望 2023 年以後，我們會看到移動網絡市場的預期正常化或複蘇，我們會看到雲軟件和服務的好轉，我們可以繼續增加 IPR 收入並從成本計劃中獲得全部收益我們正在推動的其他行動使我們有望在 2024 年實現長期目標的下限。因此，我只想感謝愛立信所有出色的員工，是他們讓這一職位成為可能。非常感謝你。

With that, over to you, Peter.

有了這個，就交給你了，彼得。

Thanks, Börje, and thank you, Carl, for the presentation. So it's now time for the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions) And if you are streaming the webcast, please mute the webcast audio whilst asking questions to minimize any audio feedback.

謝謝 Börje，也謝謝 Carl 的介紹。現在是問答環節。 （操作員說明）如果您正在播放網絡廣播，請在提問時將網絡廣播音頻靜音，以盡量減少任何音頻反饋。

So I'm now ready for the first question. And with that, I would like to welcome Aleksander Peterc. So Aleksander?

所以我現在準備好回答第一個問題。就此，我要歡迎亞歷山大·彼得克。那麼亞歷山大？

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes, perfectly.

是的，完美。

Excellent. I'd just like to first touch upon the gross margin trend in Networks. To what extent is that due to any import duties you probably have to pay in India at the moment? And how advanced are you in the progress with the local assembly or part of manufacturing to minimize these import duty cost? Is that part of the reason why things are going south in the second quarter? That's my first question.

出色的。我只想先談談網絡的毛利率趨勢。由於您目前可能必須在印度支付的任何進口關稅，在多大程度上是這樣？您在本地組裝或部分製造方面的進展如何，以最大限度地減少這些進口關稅成本？這是第二季度事情向南發展的部分原因嗎？這是我的第一個問題。

Second one, just if you are more specific on restructuring, which areas you're targeting with the new restructuring charges, in which businesses and which geography?

第二，如果你對重組更具體，你的新重組費用針對哪些領域，哪些業務和哪些地區？

If you want to start, Carl?

如果你想開始，卡爾？

Yes. Börje, should I take this one?

是的。 Börje，我應該拿這個嗎？

I think you take it, Carl.

我想你接受了，卡爾。

Yes. Maybe start with the second one then. When it comes to restructuring, it touches on many, if not all parts of our company in many geographies. So it's a wide and we have savings targets on basic virtually all managers. It's about half-half between cost of sales, if you like, with service delivery and supply, et cetera, and OpEx. The increase now that we presented today, the SEK 2 billion, that's more tilted towards the OpEx side, and there's also some R&D components in there. Of course, technology leadership remains our strategy, but we still see that there are productivity improvements and things we can do on the R&D side as well.

是的。也許從第二個開始。談到重組，它涉及到我們公司在許多地區的許多（如果不是全部）部門。所以它很廣泛，我們對幾乎所有經理都有儲蓄目標。它大約是銷售成本（如果您願意）與服務交付和供應等以及運營支出之間的一半。我們今天提出的增加，即 20 億瑞典克朗，更傾向於 OpEx 方面，其中也有一些研發部分。當然，技術領先仍然是我們的戰略，但我們仍然看到生產力有所提高，我們在研發方面也可以做一些事情。

On your first question, yes, we are advancing when it comes to local production or assembly in India, and we're building out that together with the partner. So that's going well. The speed of rollout is incredible. So we are ramping up very fast as well in the local production there. And the import duty side, I would not say it's material when we look at the Networks gross margin. But of course, it's sizable enough for us to work really actively on trying to reduce that and localize production. Börje, if you want to add?

關於你的第一個問題，是的，我們正在印度本地生產或組裝方面取得進展，我們正在與合作夥伴一起建設。所以一切順利。推出的速度令人難以置信。因此，我們在那裡的本地生產也非常快速地增加。而進口關稅方面，當我們查看網絡毛利率時，我不會說它很重要。但當然，它的規模足以讓我們真正積極地努力減少這種情況並實現本地化生產。 Börje，如果你想補充？

Thank you, Carl, and thank you, Aleksander. So we will now take the next question. And I think we have the next question from Andrew Gardiner from Citi. Andrew?

謝謝 Carl，也謝謝 Aleksander。那麼我們現在開始下一個問題。我想我們有花旗的安德魯·加德納 (Andrew Gardiner) 提出的下一個問題。安德魯？

I had one on your visibility into business for the rest of the year. On one hand, Börje, you continue to use the word choppy as pertaining to 2023 and you're saying uncertainty remains. At one point there, Carl, you also said that conversations with customers are giving you some confidence that the inventory correction will be behind us in 2Q or at least early 3Q. Just on that latter point, sort of how broad are these conversations across key operators? How convinced are you that you've got the right level of visibility into what those customers will need in the second half? Where are inventory levels today? What are the indications in terms of deployment plans?

我有一個關於你在今年剩餘時間裡對業務的了解。一方面，Börje，你繼續使用與 2023 年有關的“波濤洶湧”這個詞，你是說不確定性仍然存在。卡爾，您曾說過，與客戶的對話讓您有信心庫存調整將在第二季度或至少第三季度初結束。就後一點而言，主要運營商之間的這些對話有多廣泛？對於下半年這些客戶的需求，您是否有足夠的洞察力？今天的庫存水平在哪裡？部署計劃有何指示？

Can you give us any further detail around what you're hearing from the customers that gives you that confidence in an improving second half?

您能否向我們提供有關您從客戶那裡聽到的讓您對下半年有所改善的信心的更多詳細信息？

Börje?

伯耶？

Yes, it's a good question. What gives us the comfort is, of course, it starts with the ongoing deployment pace. And that's the key driver, and that gives us comfort that we will have seen the inventory adjustments during Q2, a bit of slip into Q3, but most of it done during Q2. And again, the reason for keeping the rollout pace up, it's not maybe -- it's down somewhat compared to last year, and you have seen Dell'Oro indicating numbers that are varying here. I think it's minus 7% in North America, for example, But that effect is truly compounded by this inventory adjustment.

是的，這是個好問題。當然，讓我們感到安慰的是，它始於持續的部署步伐。這是關鍵驅動因素，這讓我們感到欣慰的是，我們將在第二季度看到庫存調整，進入第三季度有點下滑，但大部分在第二季度完成。再一次，保持推出速度的原因，可能不是——與去年相比有所下降，你已經看到 Dell'Oro 指出這裡的數字有所不同。例如，我認為北美是負 7%，但這次庫存調整確實加劇了這種影響。

And as long as we see the traffic growth we see today, that is ultimately going to require investments in the network to keep the capacity up and keep the user experience up. So based on the discussions we're having, we are -- I will preface it, there is a lot of macroeconomic uncertainty facing our customers, energy cost, it's inflation, it's a lot of different issues. But it gives us comfort to say that the rollout pace continues and ought to deplete the excess inventory by midyear or early Q3. So we're -- we feel good about it. But it's, of course, something that impacts us quite dramatically.

只要我們看到今天的流量增長，最終就需要對網絡進行投資以保持容量和用戶體驗。因此，根據我們正在進行的討論，我們 - 我將作為序言，我們的客戶面臨著很多宏觀經濟不確定性，能源成本，通貨膨脹，這是很多不同的問題。但令人欣慰的是，推出步伐仍在繼續，應該會在年中或第三季度初耗盡過剩庫存。所以我們 - 我們感覺很好。但是，當然，它對我們的影響非常顯著。

And you mentioned Dell'Oro there. Do you feel like those estimates still hold given how you've started the year and in particular, sort of much weaker than seasonal trends into the second half?

你在那裡提到了 Dell'Oro。考慮到今年年初的情況，尤其是下半年的季節性趨勢，您是否覺得這些估計仍然成立？

Yes. I think the reason why we're -- it's hard to say. They need to make their summary. I think it -- we will know in a few weeks' time. So let's see what they come out at. But we should remember the big adjustment on our side is actually the inventory adjustment. That's the big impact on our sales on one side. And the other side of that is the rapid growth in some of the new 5G markets. So we're in the middle of that business mix shift, which, of course, makes it always a bit difficult to have 100% visibility. But at least we feel quite good about our position.

是的。我認為我們的原因 - 很難說。他們需要做總結。我認為 - 我們將在幾週後知道。因此，讓我們看看他們的結果。但我們應該記住，我們這邊的大調整實際上是庫存調整。一方面，這對我們的銷售產生了重大影響。另一方面是一些新的 5G 市場的快速增長。所以我們正處於業務組合轉變的中間，當然，這使得擁有 100% 的可見性總是有點困難。但至少我們對自己的處境感覺良好。

Thanks, Börje. Thank you, Andrew, for that question. So we are now moving into the third question of this session. And I have that question coming from Sébastien Sztabowicz from Kepler Chevreux. Sebastian?

謝謝，Börje。安德魯，謝謝你提出這個問題。那麼我們現在進入本屆會議的第三個問題。 Kepler Chevreux 的 Sébastien Sztabowicz 提出了這個問題。塞巴斯蒂安？

One question on IPR. You are still forecasting substantially higher IPR revenue going forward. Have you made any kind of progress on your patent monetization strategy? And also a second one on Vonage. So it seems they have reported quite good growth, talking about 14% in dollar terms despite challenging macro conditions. Could you help understand how the demand is building up at Vonage. But more generally speaking, the Enterprise business has been quite strong in Q1, 19% growth, and you are talking about a weaker macro condition. Can you help us understand what are the dynamics there?

一個關於知識產權的問題。您仍然預測未來知識產權收入會大幅增加。您在專利貨幣化戰略方面取得了任何進展嗎？還有第二個在 Vonage 上。因此，他們似乎報告了相當不錯的增長，儘管宏觀環境充滿挑戰，但以美元計算的增長率約為 14%。您能否幫助了解 Vonage 的需求是如何增長的？但更一般地說，企業業務在第一季度相當強勁，增長了 19%，你說的是宏觀環境較弱。你能幫助我們了解那裡的動態嗎？

Thank you, Sebastian. Maybe, Carl, if you can start the IPR.

謝謝你，塞巴斯蒂安。也許吧，Carl，如果你能啟動 IPR。

Yes. On IPR, we have a strong position there, of course, with the patent portfolio we have, not least in 5G. And there is a funnel of a number of device players that will need to come on stream as well and sign up for licenses with us. So we are working on those deals, and that's a big part of what is behind our optimism when it comes to IPR revenue. And of course, we will report back once those agreements are eventually signed. As usual, the same as with the agreement with Samsung and then with Apple, we're not rushing into agreements. It's better to get it right, of course, with the right price level. And that keeps being our strategy. Then the next frontier, if that's your question, also maybe on the strategy for monetization. We see a big opportunity also in consumer electronics and IoT, et cetera, automotive. And that's going to be the next frontier for us to capture also license revenue from those sectors with the billions of connected devices who also -- that also use our patented technology. So we will report back on that once we have concrete progress.

是的。在知識產權方面，我們擁有強大的地位，當然，我們擁有專利組合，尤其是在 5G 領域。還有許多設備播放器也需要上線並向我們註冊許可證。所以我們正在處理這些交易，這是我們對知識產權收入持樂觀態度的重要原因。當然，一旦這些協議最終簽署，我們將進行報告。與往常一樣，與三星和蘋果達成協議一樣，我們並不急於達成協議。當然，最好以合適的價格水平把它做好。這一直是我們的戰略。那麼下一個前沿，如果這是你的問題，也可能是貨幣化戰略。我們在消費電子產品和物聯網等汽車領域也看到了巨大的機遇。這將是我們的下一個前沿領域，我們也可以從那些擁有數十億聯網設備的行業獲得許可收入，這些設備也使用我們的專利技術。因此，一旦我們取得具體進展，我們將對此進行報告。

Maybe, Börje, you want to comment on the Vonage growth development.

Börje，也許您想對 Vonage 的增長發展發表評論。

Yes, you can say -- just touch upon it shortly. Yes, we had 14% growth, about twice that growth rate or almost twice that growth rate in our current communication APIs for Vonage. So it's been a solid quarter. There is a bit of headwind from the general macroeconomic developments. And we should remember when we had the COVID days in '22 and before that, we had a bit higher growth in the use of communication APIs. So that put them on a bit of maybe you can call it an extra high level that we're now on the back end of that. But we're still seeing a very good growth and it's developing very strongly.

是的，你可以說 - 很快就會談到它。是的，我們有 14% 的增長，大約是我們當前用於 Vonage 的通信 API 的增長率的兩倍或幾乎兩倍。所以這是一個穩定的季度。總體宏觀經濟發展存在一些不利因素。我們應該記住，在 22 年的 COVID 日子裡，在那之前，我們在通信 API 的使用方面有更高的增長。因此，這使他們處於某種程度，也許您可以稱其為我們現在處於後端的更高水平。但我們仍然看到非常好的增長，而且發展非常強勁。

Of course, that's something we continue to invest in and drive innovation as well, so we can launch a number of new competitive offerings in the current communication APIs. You see the same thing in Cradlepoint. We've seen good growth during the quarter. But I would also say we are facing macroeconomic headwind and a bit tougher investment levels in enterprise networking, but it still gives a very good growth rate. So I would not, in that sense, be alarmed. But what it does give is confidence that the offering we have is very competitive and solving a real customer need.

當然，這也是我們繼續投資並推動創新的東西，因此我們可以在當前的通信 API 中推出許多具有競爭力的新產品。你在 Cradlepoint 中看到了同樣的事情。我們在本季度看到了良好的增長。但我還要說的是，我們正面臨宏觀經濟逆風和企業網絡投資水平有點嚴格，但它仍然提供了非常好的增長率。因此，從這個意義上說，我不會感到驚慌。但它確實給了我們信心，即我們所提供的產品非常有競爭力，可以解決真正的客戶需求。

Thank you, Börje, and thank you, Sebastian, for those questions. So we'll move into the next question, which will come from Peter Kurt Nielsen at ABG. Peter Kurt, can you hear me?

謝謝 Börje，也謝謝 Sebastian 提出的這些問題。那麼我們將進入下一個問題，該問題將來自 ABG 的 Peter Kurt Nielsen。彼得庫爾特，你能聽到我說話嗎？

I can, Peter. If I can just return a bit to the outlook for, I guess, Networks margins, et cetera. We're talking about a gradual recovery in the second half, which you also told us at Q4. But it does appear now to be from a somewhat lower, weaker level in Q2. Now you've discussed a bit the various components that will enter into this equation. But can you talk a bit about how far into the India ramp-up we need to go before we will see what you perhaps could call a normalization of margins? And I'm asking also because you are maintaining the longer-term target, 15% to 18% lower end of the range for '24, which, I guess, would thus imply a significant improvement also in the gross margin in Networks as we approach -- going into next year. Could you talk a bit about where the recovery is coming from, how far into India deployment we need to be in order to see these margins in Networks restoring themselves?

我可以，彼得。如果我能稍微回顧一下網絡利潤率等方面的前景。我們正在談論下半年的逐步復甦，您也在第四季度告訴我們。但現在看來確實來自第二季度較低、較弱的水平。現在您已經稍微討論了將進入此等式的各種組件。但是你能談談在我們看到你也許可以稱之為利潤率正常化之前，我們需要在印度的增長中走多遠嗎？而且我問也是因為你維持長期目標，即 24 年範圍的下限 15% 到 18%，我猜這意味著網絡的毛利率也有顯著改善，因為我們方法——進入明年。您能否談談復甦的來源，我們需要在印度部署多遠才能看到網絡中的這些利潤率自我恢復？

Do you want to start with that, Carl?

卡爾，你想從這裡開始嗎？

I can start and, Börje, you can fill in as well, if you like. But -- so what we are so focused on, as you know, is the 2024 financial target, of course. And there are some key components that will start to play in, in the second half of 2023 and then onwards into '24. And of course, your question is on Networks specifically. We do see that certain rebalancing would start to happen. The inventory adjustments we talked about will flatten out, as Börje described well earlier.

我可以開始，Börje，如果你願意，你也可以填寫。但是——正如你所知，我們如此關注的當然是 2024 年的財務目標。並且有一些關鍵組件將在 2023 年下半年開始發揮作用，然後進入 24 年。當然，您的問題專門針對網絡。我們確實看到某些重新平衡將開始發生。正如 Börje 之前所描述的那樣，我們談到的庫存調整將會趨於平緩。

The rollout in India will peak around the end of this year but, of course, continue at a high level later on also. But we still see this rebalancing between -- within the mix. Then, of course, we have a cost-out program that we talked about, which will generate also and improve profitability also in the Networks business side. And as you know, also IPR has a big part of the -- sorry, Networks has a big part of the IPR revenues also in the segment results. So as soon as we can land some of those deals, that would also carry Networks forward in terms of gross margin.

印度的推出將在今年年底左右達到頂峰，但當然，稍後也會繼續保持高水平。但我們仍然看到這種重新平衡 - 在組合中。然後，當然，我們有一個我們談到的成本支出計劃，它也會在網絡業務方面產生並提高盈利能力。正如你所知，IPR 也有很大一部分 - 抱歉，網絡在細分結果中也有很大一部分 IPR 收入。因此，一旦我們能夠達成其中一些交易，就毛利率而言，這也將帶動 Networks 向前發展。

Börje, anything to add?

Börje，有什麼要補充的嗎？

I think you captured it, Carl. It's the -- I think we see during Q1, Q2, the inventory adjustments at the maximum that we predict will be -- therefore, we expect that to be much less during the second half. And then we'll -- and that, of course, will carry into a better business mix in 2024, which will overall help us on margins. And then you have the cost, as Carl said, you have the IPR, and we have the turnaround of Cloud Software and Services. And then we're also starting to see a payoff. It's not going to be -- it's still going to have a loss-making next year in our Enterprise segment. but we should start to see improvements there. And that allows us to be within the lower end of our long-term targets next year.

我想你抓住了它，卡爾。這是——我認為我們在第一季度、第二季度看到了我們預測的最大庫存調整——因此，我們預計下半年的庫存調整會少得多。然後我們將 - 當然，這將在 2024 年實現更好的業務組合，這將總體上幫助我們提高利潤率。然後你有成本，正如卡爾所說，你有知識產權，我們有云軟件和服務的轉變。然後我們也開始看到回報。它不會 - 明年我們的企業部門仍將虧損。但我們應該開始看到那裡的改進。這使我們能夠實現明年長期目標的下限。

Thanks, Börje, and thank you, Peter Kurt, for that question. So we will move further in this Q&A session. And the next question will come from Andreas Joelsson at Danske. Andreas?

謝謝 Börje，也謝謝 Peter Kurt 提出的這個問題。因此，我們將在本次問答環節中走得更遠。下一個問題將來自 Danske 的 Andreas Joelsson。安德烈亞斯？

One question, if I may, and that's on Networks again but on the top line. Usually, you have a sequential growth between Q1 and Q2. And this year, you'll stay flat. Does that mean that the inventory burden will be more or even higher in Q2? Or is it something else that we should be aware of that is happening between the quarters?

有一個問題，如果可以的話，這個問題又出現在網絡上，但在最上面。通常，您在第一季度和第二季度之間有連續增長。而今年，您將保持平穩。這是否意味著二季度的庫存負擔會更多甚至更高？還是我們應該注意各季度之間發生的其他事情？

Andreas, it's exactly the same reasons that we talk about actually on top line. It is the inventory adjustment and the cautiousness on CapEx that we see. So it's the same factors as in Q1. And when we look into Q4 -- sorry, Q2 now, we see that sales in Network will most likely remain on a rather flat level sequentially. So it's exactly the same factors as we have described here.

安德烈亞斯，這與我們在頂線討論的原因完全相同。我們看到的是庫存調整和資本支出的謹慎。所以它與第一季度的因素相同。當我們查看第四季度時——抱歉，現在是第二季度，我們看到網絡的銷售額很可能會連續保持在相當平穩的水平。所以它與我們在這裡描述的因素完全相同。

Thanks, Andreas, for that question, and thank you, Carl. We'll move to the next question, and we have that one coming from Sandeep Deshpande at JPMorgan.

謝謝 Andreas 提出這個問題，也謝謝 Carl。我們將轉到下一個問題，這個問題來自摩根大通的 Sandeep Deshpande。

My question is regarding, Börje, regarding '24. I mean, you're saying that there will be a recovery in the market from '23 to '24. In the past cycles, we've seen that once the reduction in 1 -- in 4G happened, it didn't really recover until 5G came. Why do you think that '24 will see a recovery in the same 5G market that is softer this year?

Börje，我的問題是關於 24 年的。我的意思是，你是說市場將從 23 歲到 24 歲出現復甦。在過去的周期中，我們已經看到，一旦 1-4G 的減少發生，直到 5G 出現後它才真正恢復。為什麼您認為 24 年會在今年較為疲軟的同一個 5G 市場中看到復蘇？

The first reason is back to the inventory adjustments. So the underlying rollout pace continues. So it's inventory adjustments that's happening, that's going to be through, as we have said, during Q2 and possibly slightly into Q3. That gives us confidence about the underlying, call it, demand for network equipment. So that's the most important part.

第一個原因是回庫存調整。因此，基礎推出步伐仍在繼續。因此，正如我們所說，庫存調整正在發生，這將在第二季度完成，可能會略微進入第三季度。這讓我們對網絡設備的潛在需求充滿信心。所以這是最重要的部分。

The second one, and this is more of a longer term, but you have to recognize the growing demand for data, that's continuing at a very high rate. And in order to ensure that you can deliver that with a cost-efficient way as an operator as well as deliver it with the, call it, the user experience you need, there will be a need to keep on investing in capacity in the network. And there is no doubt in my mind that, that will have to happen. You can't really compare here with the previous generations because it's not data-driven.

第二個，這是更長期的，但你必須認識到對數據的需求不斷增長，而且這種需求還在以非常高的速度持續增長。為了確保您可以作為運營商以具有成本效益的方式提供它，並提供您需要的用戶體驗，需要繼續投資網絡容量.毫無疑問，在我看來，那必鬚髮生。你不能真正將這裡與前幾代進行比較，因為它不是數據驅動的。

Today, the generations are data-driven. That's why this is highly likely to look a bit different. So just to the experiment to think how would we cope with the current traffic level if we wouldn't have 5G. So we basically need 5G in order to manage the current demand for data and give the end user the experience they want. Of course, it varies a bit by geography, but just look at the build-out pace in India. It will make India a leading 5G nation and the leading nation for digitalization. And what we see is that the subscribers on 5G are using even more data than on 4G. And that's why we're quite comfortable to say that the inventory adjustments will be through, and therefore, we will see a much more of a normal business mix in '24 and beyond.

今天，幾代人都是數據驅動的。這就是為什麼這很可能看起來有點不同。所以只是為了思考如果我們沒有 5G 我們將如何應對當前的流量水平的實驗。所以我們基本上需要 5G 來管理當前的數據需求並為最終用戶提供他們想要的體驗。當然，它因地理位置而略有不同，但看看印度的建設速度就知道了。這將使印度成為領先的 5G 國家和領先的數字化國家。我們看到的是，5G 用戶使用的數據比 4G 還要多。這就是為什麼我們很高興地說庫存調整將會完成，因此，我們將在 24 世紀及以後看到更多正常的業務組合。

But still, even though data growth is 20% plus network CapEx that will be what supports kind of a flattish market. That's why it's important to keep in mind that we've guided for an overall flattish development within Mobile Networks for several years. So that's not anything new. But what it means is basically the inventory adjustment will normalize next year and then you're on that flattish curve. So we're not -- I think it's important to be clear. It's not that we assume you will enter a high growth rate in the Networks business or in Mobile Networks at all next year. It's just that the inventory cycle will have normalized.

但是，儘管數據增長是 20% 加上網絡資本支出，這將支持某種平坦的市場。這就是為什麼重要的是要記住，多年來我們一直在指導移動網絡的整體扁平化發展。所以這不是什麼新鮮事。但這基本上意味著庫存調整將在明年正常化，然後你就處於平坦的曲線上。所以我們不是——我認為明確這一點很重要。這並不是說我們假設您明年將在網絡業務或移動網絡領域實現高增長率。只是庫存週期將正常化。

Thank you for that question, Sandeep. And we will now move to the next question in this call, And that one is coming from Fredrik Lithell at Handelsbanken. So Fredrik, you're online.

謝謝你提出這個問題，桑迪普。我們現在將轉到本次電話會議的下一個問題，這個問題來自 Handelsbanken 的 Fredrik Lithell。 Fredrik，你在線。

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

We can hear you.

我們能聽到你的聲音。

And I have 2, if I may, maybe one for Börje and one for Carl. If we start with the first one for Börje. Cloud Software saw an improvement in Q1, a clear one. So that good. I'm thinking about the fact that you're tuning down the sort of seasonal effects into Q2. Was it so that you had a more positive ending to Q1 and thereby, you had also higher software share in that quarter? Or is it so that you feel you see structural effects from the ongoing changes with the new management are doing in CSS, and that's behind the improved earnings in Q1? So what is what there in CSS? That's the question really.

如果可以的話，我有 2 個，也許一個給 Börje，另一個給 Carl。如果我們從 Börje 的第一個開始。 Cloud Software 在第一季度取得了明顯的進步。那麼好。我在考慮這樣一個事實，即您正在將季節性影響調低到第二季度。是不是讓您在第一季度有一個更積極的結局，因此，您在該季度的軟件份額也更高？還是您覺得您看到了新管理層在 CSS 中所做的持續變化帶來的結構性影響，而這正是第一季度收益改善的背後原因？那麼 CSS 中有什麼？這真的是個問題。

And then Carl, on -- you talked about the rolling 12 months free cash flow at 5.7. You have a target of 9 to 12. And you say you're going to do everything you can to improve. And what are your levers to accomplish change that will improve? Or is it so that much will come from changed business mix or changed geographical mix and what have you that will improve this free cash flow yield?

然後卡爾，你談到了 5.7 的滾動 12 個月自由現金流。你的目標是 9 到 12。你說你會盡你所能去提高。你有什麼槓桿來實現將改進的變化？還是業務組合或地域組合的變化會帶來很多變化，您有什麼可以提高這種自由現金流收益率？

So we start with Börje.

所以我們從 Börje 開始。

Okay. So if we start with Cloud Software and Services, yes, they had -- we're putting in place a strategy to kind of limiting our subscale development. We're focusing on having the right product portfolio to make sure that we can win in the market. Those efforts continue and, of course, putting profitability ahead of growth, and we have said that. Then in Q1, we saw a bit of effect from higher software sales and we saw a bit more IPR revenues than last year. So part of the improvement comes from that.

好的。因此，如果我們從雲軟件和服務開始，是的，他們已經 - 我們正在製定一項戰略來限制我們的小規模發展。我們專注於擁有正確的產品組合，以確保我們能夠在市場上取勝。這些努力仍在繼續，當然，將盈利能力置於增長之前，我們已經說過了。然後在第一季度，我們看到了軟件銷售額增加的一些影響，我們看到了比去年多一點的知識產權收入。所以部分改進來自於此。

But I would also say there is a lot of changes that's underlying in the way we conduct the business in Cloud Software and Services that should allow us to reach the -- or be on the breakeven for the year that we are comfortable with. Then we know from experience, it kind of fluctuates a bit by quarter depending on when we have software deliveries and not. And that's why we say it's going to be less seasonality this coming quarter than we've seen in previous years. But we're very committed to working hard at improving the underlying business, in line with what we did in Q1 and continue into Q2.

但我還要說的是，我們在雲軟件和服務中開展業務的方式存在很多變化，這應該使我們能夠達到 - 或者在我們滿意的年份達到收支平衡。然後我們從經驗中知道，它會按季度略有波動，具體取決於我們何時交付軟件。這就是為什麼我們說下個季度的季節性會比往年少。但我們非常致力於努力改善基礎業務，與我們在第一季度和第二季度所做的一致。

Thanks. And Carl, on the cash flow development.

謝謝。還有卡爾，關於現金流的發展。

Yes. Thanks, Fredrik. Yes. And you know working capital, cash flow management, very close to my heart. And I think we've done a lot during this year also to reduce working capital to a completely different, much lower level. I think we have the levers to do that. What we're looking at now is really you could say 2 buckets to start with. It's partly the cash flow generation as such, it's about terms and conditions also, both with customers and suppliers and managed discipline in presales and in supplier management to make sure that we balance -- not least in this new rollout projects that we balance in and outflows in a good way. And that will take some hard work and, in some cases, renegotiations as well.

是的。謝謝，弗雷德里克。是的。你知道營運資金，現金流管理，非常接近我的心。而且我認為我們在今年也做了很多工作，將營運資金減少到一個完全不同的、低得多的水平。我認為我們有能力做到這一點。我們現在看到的是，您真的可以說是從 2 個桶開始。這在一定程度上是現金流的產生，它也與客戶和供應商的條款和條件有關，並在售前和供應商管理中管理紀律以確保我們平衡——尤其是在我們平衡的新推出項目中以良好的方式流出。這需要一些艱苦的工作，在某些情況下還需要重新談判。

But then, of course, also on the more business side, and you mentioned it yourself, Fredrik, that the same logic applies here as with the business mix. And when we have a rebalancing back to more of the front runner markets, that is good for our cash flow as well. And the final point to mention also related to business is, of course, that when we sign IPR deals, that's typically a good contribution to our cash flow as well. And you know that's normally a retroactive effect also on the cash flow side. So those are some of the levers. We have full focus on this. The entire company is very geared at improving working capital and generate good cash flow going forward.

但是，當然，在更多的業務方面，你自己也提到過，弗雷德里克，同樣的邏輯適用於業務組合。當我們重新平衡到更多領先市場時，這對我們的現金流也有好處。當然，最後要提到的一點也與業務有關，當我們簽署知識產權交易時，這通常也會對我們的現金流做出很好的貢獻。而且你知道這通常也是對現金流量方面的追溯效應。所以這些是一些槓桿。我們完全專注於此。整個公司都非常適合改善營運資金並在未來產生良好的現金流。

Thank you, Fredrik, for those 2 questions. So we're actually now open for the last question of this session. And that question will come from Janardan Menon from Jefferies. Janardan?

謝謝 Fredrik 提出的這兩個問題。所以我們實際上現在開始回答本次會議的最後一個問題。這個問題將來自 Jefferies 的 Janardan Menon。賈納爾丹？

My question is really just to narrow down a little bit more on the new communication APIs and as well as just the outlook for the Enterprise division into 2024 and beyond. So you've said that you -- both on the Hong Kong as well as at Mobile World Congress, you've made those announcements which are quite exciting, and you will start seeing revenue coming through into '24, '25. Can you give us some idea of what kind of revenue growth you would be -- we can expect on the new communication APIs into next year and the year after? And if you can't give us an idea of revenue, can you say like how many apps developers do you -- have you signed so far? I presume it's quite a small number. But how many would that grow to by '24 and '25? What is your sort of internal targets on that sort of thing?

我的問題實際上只是要進一步縮小新通信 API 的範圍，以及企業部門到 2024 年及以後的前景。所以你說過——無論是在香港還是在世界移動通信大會上，你都發布了那些非常令人興奮的公告，你將開始看到收入進入 24、25 年。您能否告訴我們您會帶來什麼樣的收入增長——我們可以期待明年和後年的新通信 API？如果你不能告訴我們收入的概念，你能說說你有多少應用程序開發者——到目前為止你簽了字嗎？我想這是一個相當小的數字。但是到 24 年和 25 年會增長到多少？你對這類事情的內部目標是什麼？

And similarly, on the Cradlepoint side, you alluded to the depressing effect on margins because you have upfront OpEx, which you take upfront, and the revenue is sort of staggered. When does that effect start reversing? At what point is there -- on your current modeling, is there a point to where the Cradlepoint stops becoming accretive because the upfront cost or the revenue is more than the cost -- upfront cost? Or is this sort of -- because it's a growing business, that will take quite a long time to happen because you're going on signing new customers and therefore, the upfront cost will continue to be quite high? I mean, how should we think about that over the longer term?

同樣，在 Cradlepoint 方面，你提到了對利潤率的抑製作用，因為你有前期的 OpEx，你提前支付了，而且收入有點交錯。這種影響何時開始逆轉？在什麼時候 - 在您當前的模型中，是否存在 Cradlepoint 停止增長的點，因為前期成本或收入超過成本 - 前期成本？還是這種 - 因為它是一個不斷增長的業務，這將需要很長時間才能發生，因為你要繼續簽下新客戶，因此前期成本將繼續很高？我的意思是，從長遠來看，我們應該如何考慮？

Börje, will you take those questions?

Börje，你會回答這些問題嗎？

I would suggest Carl takes those.

我會建議卡爾拿那些。

Okay. I can make an attempt. So on Cradlepoint, so the business model is clear. And actually, it's, of course, a very favorable business model because cash upfront and a subscription model which creates a sustainable and recurring revenue also. But we had this phenomenon with, of course, the investments related to capturing those contracts in OpEx coming upfront. Exactly when that will turn around, we have not gone into and disclosed and talked about. But of course, this is a balancing game. How much do we invest short term for the long-term gain and how -- or how prudent are we short term as well to manage the P&L? And this is, of course, a big topic for us in the leadership team and with George who manages this business as well. I'm not able to give you an exact date there. But of course, at a certain point, we will see that being accretive to Ericsson. And we have a very strong release. You saw the 60% growth delivered in the first quarter in this. And of course, that comes out of the investments we are making, and we see that, that will continue.

好的。我可以嘗試一下。所以在 Cradlepoint 上，所以商業模式很清晰。實際上，這當然是一種非常有利的商業模式，因為預付現金和訂閱模式也可以創造可持續和經常性的收入。但是，我們遇到了這種現象，當然，與在 OpEx 中獲取這些合同相關的投資會提前出現。究竟什麼時候會好轉，我們還沒有深入、披露和討論過。但當然，這是一個平衡遊戲。我們為長期收益投資了多少短期投資，以及我們如何——或者我們在短期內以及如何謹慎地管理損益？當然，這對我們領導團隊和管理這項業務的喬治來說都是一個大話題。我無法在那裡給你一個確切的日期。但當然，在某個時候，我們會看到這對愛立信來說是增值的。我們有一個非常強大的版本。您在第一季度看到了 60% 的增長。當然，這來自我們正在進行的投資，我們看到，這將繼續下去。

On the Vonage side, I think we will come back. What I can say now is that we see really great traction among the early adopters and the front runners. You saw the Mobile World Congress with all the Spanish operators. That's one example. But of course, much more is cooking here. And the operator community, I would say, is really eager to work together and collaborate with us on this and developing this as a new business for them. And of course, everyone now in the industry can see the potential of exposing these 5G capabilities for enterprises and developers. It's happening as we speak, but of course, very early stages. And we are not ready to give specific revenue numbers for the future yet. But we'd rather prove that to you when those numbers actually come in. It's going to be limited in the beginning but with a great potential for the longer term.

在 Vonage 方面，我認為我們會回來的。我現在可以說的是，我們在早期採用者和領跑者中看到了巨大的吸引力。您看到了所有西班牙運營商參加的世界移動通信大會。那是一個例子。但當然，更多的是在這裡做飯。我要說的是，運營商社區真的很渴望與我們一起工作並在這方面與我們合作，並將其發展為他們的新業務。當然，現在業內的每個人都可以看到為企業和開發人員公開這些 5G 功能的潛力。就在我們說話的時候，它正在發生，但當然，還處於非常早期的階段。我們還沒有準備好提供未來的具體收入數字。但我們寧願在這些數字實際出現時向您證明這一點。它在開始時會受到限制，但從長遠來看具有巨大的潛力。

Anything to add, Börje?

Börje 有什麼要補充的嗎？

I would only add on the network APIs. What we see is a very good reception from the operators, but also from enterprises -- front runner enterprises who can leverage these type of APIs in applications. We're starting to see it also from application developers, but it's not a formal market yet. I will be clear to say that the platform we could show at Mobile World Congress is not fully industrialized yet. But at least it allows us to get this first feedback from developers, from enterprises that this is a workable market and actually can make sense. That's why we're confident that we will start to see revenues during this year. But as Carl said, it's too early to put a number on that for this year and into next and the year after. But we'll see a very exciting development.

我只會添加網絡 API。我們所看到的是運營商和企業——可以在應用程序中利用這些類型的 API 的領跑者企業——的良好反響。我們也開始從應用程序開發人員那裡看到它，但它還不是一個正式的市場。我會明確地說，我們可以在世界移動通信大會上展示的平台還沒有完全工業化。但至少它讓我們能夠從開發人員和企業那裡得到第一手反饋，認為這是一個可行的市場，而且實際上是有意義的。這就是為什麼我們有信心在今年開始看到收入。但正如卡爾所說，現在就為今年、明年和後年給出一個數字還為時過早。但我們會看到一個非常令人興奮的發展。

Thank you, Janardan, for that question. And I would also like to thank Carl and Börje for good answers throughout the sessions. And with that question, we are closing the Q1 2023 conference call. Thank you, and have a great day.

謝謝 Janardan 提出這個問題。我還要感謝 Carl 和 Börje 在整個會議期間提供的出色回答。帶著這個問題，我們將結束 2023 年第一季度的電話會議。謝謝你，祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you all.

謝謝你們。

Thank you.

謝謝。