Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (ERIC) 2022 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's presentation covering the third quarter in 2022. With me here today, I have Ericsson's CEO, Börje Ekholm; and our CFO, Carl Mellander. As usual, we will end the presentation with a Q&A session. And in order to ask questions, you will need to join the conference by phone. Details can be found in today's press release as well as on the website, ericsson.com/investors. Please also be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

大家早上好，歡迎收聽今天關於 2022 年第三季度的演講。今天和我在一起的是愛立信首席執行官 Börje Ekholm；和我們的首席財務官 Carl Mellander。像往常一樣，我們將以問答環節結束演講。為了提出問題，您需要通過電話加入會議。詳情可在今天的新聞稿以及網站 ericsson.com/investors 上找到。另請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。

But before handing over to Börje Ekholm, I would like to say the following. During today's presentation, we will be making forward-looking statements. These statements are based on our current expectation and certain planning assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. The actual results may differ materially due to factors mentioned in today's press release and discussed in this conference call. We encourage you to read about these risks and uncertainties in our earnings release this morning as well as in our annual report.

但在移交給 Börje Ekholm 之前，我想說以下幾點。在今天的演講中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述。這些陳述基於我們當前的預期和某些計劃假設，這些假設受到風險和不確定性的影響。由於今天的新聞稿中提到並在本次電話會議中討論的因素，實際結果可能存在重大差異。我們鼓勵您在我們今天上午發布的收益報告以及我們的年度報告中了解這些風險和不確定性。

With that said, I would like to hand over the word to Börje. Please, Börje.

話雖如此，我想把這個詞交給Börje。拜託了，博耶。

Thank you, Peter. Good morning, everyone, and thank you all for joining us. I'm pleased to present another quarter with solid underlying performance, and we continue to see robust performance in our business as well as market momentum.

謝謝你，彼得。大家早上好，感謝大家加入我們。我很高興展示另一個具有穩健基本表現的季度，我們繼續看到我們的業務和市場勢頭強勁。

Since 2017, we've been able to increase our RAN market share from about 33% up to 39% if we exclude Mainland China. We've taken market share from all competitors, including our European. And we have continued to add to our global footprint during the past quarter. So we're really talking about here some massive gains in overall footprint for Ericsson.

自 2017 年以來，如果不包括中國大陸，我們的 RAN 市場份額已從約 33% 提高到 39%。我們已經從所有競爭對手那裡搶占了市場份額，包括我們的歐洲人。在過去的一個季度中，我們繼續增加我們的全球足跡。因此，我們在這裡真正談論的是愛立信在整體足跡方面的一些巨大收益。

These achievements are really based on our focus on technology leadership. And I would say technology leadership allows us to offer our customers leading technologies and highly competitive solutions. Equally important is that it allows us to do product substitutions to manage our margins.

這些成就真正基於我們對技術領先地位的關注。我想說技術領先使我們能夠為客戶提供領先的技術和極具競爭力的解決方案。同樣重要的是，它允許我們進行產品替換以管理我們的利潤。

In the quarter, we also took a key step in our enterprise ambition by closing the acquisition of Vonage. It's really an exciting step for Ericsson as Vonage will be a critical building block in our enterprise strategy, and it will underpin a full range of cloud communication solutions. We aim to transform the way advanced 5G capabilities, such as speed, latency and network slicing, are exposed, consumed and paid for. And we believe this will ultimately help our customers to monetize the network.

在本季度，我們還通過完成對 Vonage 的收購，向我們的企業雄心邁出了關鍵一步。對於愛立信來說，這確實是令人興奮的一步，因為 Vonage 將成為我們企業戰略的關鍵組成部分，它將支持全方位的云通信解決方案。我們的目標是改變 5G 高級功能（例如速度、延遲和網絡切片）的公開、消費和付費方式。我們相信這最終將幫助我們的客戶通過網絡獲利。

We expect the Vonage acquisition to be highly accretive, and it complements our Enterprise Wireless Solution offerings with Cradlepoint and Dedicated Networks. Overall, we expect our enterprise offering to have a growth potential north of 20% per year.

我們預計對 Vonage 的收購將具有很高的增值性，它通過 Cradlepoint 和專用網絡補充了我們的企業無線解決方案產品。總體而言，我們預計我們的企業產品將具有每年 20% 以上的增長潛力。

So let me go through some of the key takeaways from this quarter. In the quarter, we saw organic growth of 3% with EBITA of SEK 7.7 billion and margin of 11.3%. We saw gross income increased by SEK 3.4 billion and reached SEK 28.1 billion. This increase comes despite lower IPR revenues and was driven, of course, by the consolidation of Vonage, but also a strong performance in our Networks segment.

因此，讓我回顧一下本季度的一些關鍵要點。本季度，我們看到有機增長 3%，EBITA 為 77 億瑞典克朗，利潤率為 11.3%。我們看到總收入增加了 34 億瑞典克朗，達到 281 億瑞典克朗。儘管知識產權收入有所下降，但這一增長當然是由 Vonage 的整合推動的，但也是我們網絡部門的強勁表現。

Let me comment a bit on IPR. We believe we're in a very strong patent position with more than 60,000 patents. And when we sign license agreements, there will be a retroactive compensation paid for the unlicensed period. And thus, it's not really lost sales, but it has a delay. And here, we will continue to seek to optimize the value of our portfolio, so it can always lead to some delays in revenue recognition.

讓我評論一下知識產權。我們相信我們擁有超過 60,000 項專利，擁有非常強大的專利地位。並且當我們簽署許可協議時，將在未許可期間支付追溯補償。因此，它並沒有真正失去銷售，但它有延遲。在這裡，我們將繼續尋求優化我們投資組合的價值，因此它總是會導致收入確認出現一些延遲。

Networks saw organic growth of 7% if we exclude IPR, and this was primarily driven by North America where operators continue to be at the forefront of 5G development. Gross income increased by SEK 2 billion and reached SEK 21.4 billion. This result really shows the attractiveness of our leading portfolio built on technology leadership. And this is something we will continue to invest in to strengthen our position and competitive advantage.

如果排除知識產權，網絡的有機增長為 7%，這主要是由北美推動的，運營商繼續處於 5G 發展的前沿。總收入增加了 20 億瑞典克朗，達到 214 億瑞典克朗。這一結果確實顯示了我們基於技術領先地位的領先產品組合的吸引力。這是我們將繼續投資以加強我們的地位和競爭優勢的事情。

As I already referenced, we took an important step in the quarter by closing the acquisition of Vonage. And Vonage is really a key cornerstone in our expansion into enterprise. We expect the acquisition to help our customers accelerate their digital transformation while also shaping how 5G networks will be exposed, consumed and paid for.

正如我已經提到的，我們在本季度邁出了重要的一步，完成了對 Vonage 的收購。 Vonage 確實是我們向企業擴張的關鍵基石。我們預計此次收購將幫助我們的客戶加速數字化轉型，同時塑造 5G 網絡的公開、消費和支付方式。

In the 4G world, operators could largely only monetize the network through a subscription model. 5G features such as speed, latency, but also network slicing, offer new and important revenue opportunities, but we don't see that they can be monetized through subscriptions. They have to be paid for as they're consumed. We believe that these new features will be paid for separately for that reason, and the ability to do that will be through what we call network APIs.

在 4G 世界中，運營商在很大程度上只能通過訂閱模式將網絡貨幣化。 5G 功能（例如速度、延遲以及網絡切片）提供了新的重要收入機會，但我們認為它們無法通過訂閱獲利。他們必須在消費時付費。我們相信，出於這個原因，這些新功能將單獨付費，而實現這一點的能力將通過我們所謂的網絡 API 來實現。

And with Vonage, we have the ability to drive and develop this market. We're really creating a new market for us and for our customers. And here, it's interesting to see that we're already working very intensively with frontrunner customers basically to develop the APIs, but also to bring them to the market. And our customers recognize that this will be a very important monetization engine for them going forward, so they can start to monetize the network investments that they're making.

有了 Vonage，我們就有能力推動和發展這個市場。我們真的在為我們和我們的客戶創造一個新的市場。在這裡，有趣的是，我們已經與領先的客戶進行了非常密切的合作，主要是為了開發 API，同時也將它們推向市場。我們的客戶認識到這將是他們未來非常重要的貨幣化引擎，因此他們可以開始將他們正在進行的網絡投資貨幣化。

And creating those new revenue sources for our operator customers actually is, of course, critical because if they can't monetize their investments in the network, they will ultimately not invest in the network. So for us, we believe this will also increase the demand in our business for Mobile Infrastructure. So we're excited about welcoming Vonage to the Ericsson family, and we look forward to working together now with them to generate value for both Ericsson but also for our customers, of course.

當然，為我們的運營商客戶創造這些新的收入來源實際上是至關重要的，因為如果他們不能將他們對網絡的投資貨幣化，他們最終將不會投資於網絡。因此，對我們而言，我們相信這也將增加我們對移動基礎設施業務的需求。因此，我們很高興歡迎 Vonage 加入愛立信大家庭，我們期待現在與他們合作，為愛立信創造價值，當然也為我們的客戶創造價值。

Following the reorganization earlier this year, we today present the first quarter for Cloud Software and Services. And as you know, this is a core part of the business, but we also see it's very attractive, but we have not yet realized the full potential in this business. We have a very strong starting position. And by combining the 2 market areas that we -- or business areas that we have done when we formed Cloud Software and Services, we believe we can create a stronger unit with clear synergies.

繼今年早些時候的重組之後，我們今天介紹了雲軟件和服務的第一季度。如您所知，這是業務的核心部分，但我們也看到它非常有吸引力，但我們尚未意識到這項業務的全部潛力。我們有一個非常強大的起始位置。通過結合我們的兩個市場領域——或者我們在形成雲軟件和服務時所做的業務領域，我們相信我們可以創建一個具有明顯協同效應的更強大的部門。

And the new management team is further accelerating the transition to profitability, and that includes, of course, a strong focus on driving cost down, but also to leverage and solidify our technology leading position as well as market leadership position. We expect this business to have gradual improvements, and we look forward to discussing more of the strategy and more of the plan to reach profitability at our upcoming Capital Markets Day.

新的管理團隊正在進一步加速向盈利能力的轉變，當然，這包括強烈關注降低成本，還包括利用和鞏固我們的技術領先地位和市場領導地位。我們預計這項業務將逐步改善，我們期待在即將到來的資本市場日討論更多戰略和更多實現盈利的計劃。

We continue to engage with the DOJ and the SEC in relation to the 2019 investigation report and the breach notices, and we're fully committed to cooperating with the government authorities. We're also continuing to work to strengthen our culture as well as ethics and compliance program. This work remains one of our key strategic priorities and an area where we will continue to invest in to make sure that we are also a leader in that area.

我們繼續就 2019 年調查報告和違規通知與 DOJ 和 SEC 進行接觸，我們將全力與政府當局合作。我們還將繼續努力加強我們的文化以及道德和合規計劃。這項工作仍然是我們的主要戰略重點之一，也是我們將繼續投資的領域，以確保我們也是該領域的領導者。

With that, let me give the word over to Carl Mellander, our CFO.

有了這個，讓我轉告我們的首席財務官 Carl Mellander。

Yes. Thank you, Börje. Thank you, and good morning to everyone. So yes, this is the first quarter then that we report in the new structure with the 4 segments: Networks, Cloud Software and Services, Enterprise and Other; and also the first quarter where we consolidate in Vonage. The acquisition closed on the 21st of July, so we basically have 2 months and 10 days or so in our numbers this quarter.

是的。謝謝你，博爾杰。謝謝大家，大家早上好。所以是的，這是我們在新結構中報告的第一季度，分為 4 個部分：網絡、雲軟件和服務、企業和其他；也是我們在 Vonage 進行整合的第一季度。收購於 7 月 21 日結束，所以我們本季度的數據基本上有 2 個月零 10 天左右。

But before I start to dive into the numbers, I wanted just to say that I will refer to some gross numbers here, and they will all be adjusted for currency and comparable units. I call that organic for short. And when I talk about profitability numbers, those will be excluding restructuring. I just say it now so I don't have to repeat that 16 times through the speech here.

但在我開始深入研究這些數字之前，我只想說我會在這裡參考一些總數字，它們都會根據貨幣和可比單位進行調整。我簡稱為有機。當我談到盈利數據時，這些數據將不包括重組。我現在就說出來，這樣我就不必通過這裡的演講重複 16 次了。

But let's start then with the numbers. Net sales came out to SEK 68 billion. Organic growth in 3 out of 5 of the market areas, and the organic growth then was 3% for the growth -- for the group and that's despite then SEK 1.1 billion less IPR licensing revenues compared to last -- Q3 last year. But reported sales then grew 21%, of course, helped by large currency tailwind and also the fact that we added Vonage, which contributed now with SEK 2.9 billion in sales this quarter.

但是，讓我們從數字開始。淨銷售額達到 680 億瑞典克朗。 5 個市場領域中有 3 個實現有機增長，然後有機增長為 3%——對於集團而言，儘管與去年第三季度相比，知識產權許可收入減少了 11 億瑞典克朗。但隨後報告的銷售額增長了 21%，當然，這得益於巨大的貨幣順風以及我們添加了 Vonage 的事實，它現在貢獻了本季度 29 億瑞典克朗的銷售額。

So IPR came out at SEK 1.6 billion. This is in line with the guidance that we have provided in the Q2 report where we said between SEK 1 billion and SEK 1.5 billion. And we do provide the same guidance for IPR now for the fourth quarter as well, between SEK 1 billion and SEK 1.5 billion.

因此，IPR 達到 16 億瑞典克朗。這與我們在第二季度報告中提供的指導一致，我們所說的介於 10 億瑞典克朗和 15 億瑞典克朗之間。我們現在也為第四季度的知識產權提供了相同的指導，在 10 億瑞典克朗到 15 億瑞典克朗之間。

Gross income grew by some SEK 3.4 billion in spite of the lower IPR revenues that I mentioned. And growth of gross income really comes from sales increase in Networks given footprint wins we have, and Vonage contributed SEK 1.2 billion to the gross income number.

儘管我提到的知識產權收入較低，但總收入增長了約 34 億瑞典克朗。考慮到我們在足跡上取得的勝利，總收入的增長確實來自 Networks 的銷售額增長，而 Vonage 為總收入數字貢獻了 12 億瑞典克朗。

Gross margin, 41.4%, down from 44%. Key reasons there for that decline being then, first of all, again, for the third time, the lower IPR revenues, it's about 1 percentage point on gross margin; but we also see supply chain cost in Networks, as we have talked about before; and furthermore, a large share of services business, again, coming from the footprint gains that we have secured over time and that come out in the P&L now in the Networks segment especially.

毛利率為 41.4%，低於 44%。下降的主要原因是，首先，第三次，知識產權收入下降，毛利率約為 1 個百分點；但我們也看到了網絡中的供應鏈成本，正如我們之前談到的；此外，服務業務的很大一部分再次來自我們隨著時間的推移獲得的足跡收益，尤其是現在在網絡部門的損益表中。

Looking at R&D, the engine for value creation in our company, we grew that by SEK 1.7 billion in Q3. FX stands for about 1/3 of that increase. But what we actually invest in here is the, in the Networks side, is the Ericsson silicon or the next-generation ASICs, which enables industry-leading radio performance, of course, but also things like energy savings compared to previous generations.

看看研發，我們公司創造價值的引擎，我們在第三季度增長了 17 億瑞典克朗。 FX 約佔增長的 1/3。但在網絡方面，我們實際投資的是愛立信芯片或下一代 ASIC，它們當然可以實現行業領先的無線電性能，但與前幾代產品相比，還可以節省能源。

But we also invest in the cloud RAN portfolio, which gives our customers more flexible options for deployment in networks. And thirdly, we also focus R&D money on the, what we call, Enterprise Wireless Solutions, it's really Cradlepoint and Dedicated Networks, to further extend or enhance the portfolio there and the offering.

但我們也投資於雲 RAN 產品組合，這為我們的客戶在網絡中的部署提供了更靈活的選擇。第三，我們還將研發資金集中在我們所說的企業無線解決方案上，它實際上是 Cradlepoint 和專用網絡，以進一步擴展或增強那裡的產品組合和產品。

SG&A increased by SEK 3.2 billion; again, big FX impact, about SEK 0.7 billion in this case. And the increase here is mainly related to adding Vonage, consolidating Vonage into our numbers because Vonage impacted SG&A by SEK 1.8 billion, and that in itself includes intangible amortizations, which are then, of course, not included in our EBITA metric, we'll come to that, but also one-offs. And the combination of those intangible amortizations and one-offs is around SEK 0.6 billion of that SEK 1.8 billion I mentioned.

SG&A 增加了 32 億瑞典克朗；再次，巨大的外匯影響，在這種情況下約為 7 億瑞典克朗。這裡的增長主要與添加 Vonage 相關，將 Vonage 合併到我們的數據中，因為 Vonage 影響了 SG&A 18 億瑞典克朗，而且這本身包括無形攤銷，當然，這些攤銷不包括在我們的 EBITA 指標中，我們將說到這裡，也是一次性的。在我提到的 18 億瑞典克朗中，這些無形攤銷和一次性攤銷的總和約為 6 億瑞典克朗。

So coming to EBITA then, SEK 7.7 billion, a decline of SEK 1.6 billion year-over-year, and this is an 11.3% EBITA margin. And again, I want to point out, we did have some one-off costs here, including the M&A transaction cost that we talk about for the Vonage transaction.

因此，EBITA 為 77 億瑞典克朗，同比下降 16 億瑞典克朗，EBITA 利潤率為 11.3%。我想再次指出，我們確實有一些一次性成本，包括我們為 Vonage 交易討論的併購交易成本。

So in essence, the increase we saw in gross income, which is the fruit of winning market share footprint, increasing sales, was more than offset by the increase in OpEx, which I just described, and mainly for technology investments, adding Vonage into our Ericsson family and currency. So that leaves us with a net income of SEK 5.4 billion. And here, you can say this is supported by a lower income tax also. So the tax rate now for Q3 was at 25% compared with 30% a year ago.

因此，從本質上講，我們在總收入中看到的增長，這是贏得市場份額、增加銷售額的成果，被我剛才描述的 OpEx 的增長所抵消，主要用於技術投資，將 Vonage 添加到我們的愛立信家族和貨幣。因此，我們的淨收入為 54 億瑞典克朗。在這裡，您可以說這也得到了較低所得稅的支持。因此，現在第三季度的稅率為 25%，而一年前為 30%。

Finally, here, the free cash flow came out at SEK 2.5 billion. And we continue to build buffers in inventory in order to meet deadlines of customer deliveries, and I'll come back to that a little bit more when we talk working capital and cash flow. So on a rolling 4-quarter basis, our EBITA margin was 12.8%, and that we can compare with our long-term target of 15% to 18% EBITA margin.

最後，這裡的自由現金流為 25 億瑞典克朗。我們繼續在庫存中建立緩衝，以滿足客戶交付的最後期限，當我們談論營運資金和現金流時，我會再回到這一點。因此，在滾動 4 個季度的基礎上，我們的 EBITA 利潤率為 12.8%，我們可以將其與我們 15% 至 18% 的 EBITA 利潤率的長期目標進行比較。

So from that, we can move to the next slide and drill in a little bit more into the segment numbers. So starting with the Mobile Infrastructure piece, which consists of Networks and Cloud Software and Services. Networks then, Börje already mentioned, it's organic growth of 4%. But excluding IPR, which is a special case, as we all know given renewal negotiations, the growth was actually 7%.

因此，我們可以移至下一張幻燈片，並深入了解段編號。所以從移動基礎設施部分開始，它由網絡和雲軟件和服務組成。網絡然後，Börje 已經提到，它的有機增長為 4%。但不包括特殊情況的知識產權，眾所周知，在續約談判中，增長率實際上是 7%。

Gross income, SEK 2 billion added year-over-year following the added sales that we talk about. And gross margin, 44.4%. That's impacted again by the lower IPR revenues, of course, of which Networks record 82%, as you know, but also some increased cost of components and supply chain investments there.

在我們談論的增加銷售額之後，總收入同比增加了 20 億瑞典克朗。毛利率為44.4%。這再次受到知識產權收入下降的影響，當然，如您所知，其中網絡記錄了 82%，而且那裡的組件和供應鏈投資成本有所增加。

In Cloud Software and Services, we decreased the sales organically by 5%, primarily again due to the lower IPR contribution. And here, we have 18% of IPR recorded in this segment. But we also saw some de-scoping of some of the managed services business that we have. Some of those contracts decreased, and that's what we see in the minus 5%. Gross income in this segment, stable, with a margin of 32.1%. And EBIT, a negative SEK 0.7 billion in the quarter.

在雲軟件和服務方面，我們有機地減少了 5% 的銷售額，這主要是因為知識產權貢獻較低。在這裡，我們在這一部分記錄了 18% 的知識產權。但我們也看到我們擁有的一些託管服務業務的範圍有所縮小。其中一些合同減少了，這就是我們在負 5% 中看到的情況。該板塊的毛收入穩定，利潤率為 32.1%。而息稅前利潤，本季度為負 7 億瑞典克朗。

Finally then, on the Enterprise side. Now the share of total sales in Enterprise has grown now to 8% in the quarter, the Enterprise sales as a total of Ericsson sales. And we did see very strong growth here with 21% organically by successes in Cradlepoint. The reported sales, of course, up SEK 3.6 billion or so, and that has to do with adding Vonage, of course, contributing with SEK 2.9 billion, as I mentioned.

最後，在企業方面。現在，企業在總銷售額中的份額在本季度已經增長到 8%，企業銷售額佔愛立信銷售額的總和。我們確實看到了非常強勁的增長，由於在 Cradlepoint 的成功，有機增長了 21%。報告的銷售額當然增加了 36 億瑞典克朗左右，這與添加 Vonage 有關，當然，正如我所提到的，它貢獻了 29 億瑞典克朗。

So EBITA here in Enterprise, I want to comment also, was minus SEK 1.2 billion compared to minus SEK 0.5 billion previous year. And the decline here is mainly due to one-off acquisition costs and some of this accounting -- the acquisition accounting that we talked about with sales step-down, et cetera. But excluding these items, I want to say also that Vonage was EBITA positive in the quarter.

因此，我還想評論一下，企業的 EBITA 為負 12 億瑞典克朗，而去年為負 5 億瑞典克朗。這裡的下降主要是由於一次性購置成本和其中的一些會計——我們談到的銷售下降等的購置會計。但不包括這些項目，我還想說 Vonage 在本季度的 EBITA 為正。

Next slide, looking at the market areas a bit more. We do see strong traction, as mentioned, for the solutions and that is resulting in increased footprint. And we saw strong organic growth here in North America with 9%; but also Southeast Asia, Oceania and India, which is one of the 5 market areas as well with 13% up. In Northeast Asia, we saw a decline of 6%. And in Middle East and Africa, sales grew by 3% organically. And finally then, Europe and Latin America sales were rather flat year-over-year.

下一張幻燈片，更多地關注市場領域。如前所述，我們確實看到了解決方案的強大吸引力，這導致了足蹟的增加。我們在北美看到了強勁的有機增長，達到 9%；還包括東南亞、大洋洲和印度，這五個市場區域之一也增長了 13%。在東北亞，我們看到下降了 6%。在中東和非洲，銷售額有機增長了 3%。最後，歐洲和拉丁美洲的銷售額同比持平。

And finally, on this slide, I just wanted to highlight that when we talk about the market areas, this is about our Mobile Network Infrastructure business, of course. But in addition, we have the Enterprise piece, which we now book in market area Other, just to make that clear.

最後，在這張幻燈片上，我只想強調，當我們談論市場領域時，這當然是關於我們的移動網絡基礎設施業務。但除此之外，我們還有 Enterprise 部分，我們現在在市場區域 Other 中預訂它，只是為了說明這一點。

Okay. If we go to the next one and talk a little bit more about the cash flow side then, a key metric for us, of course, is free cash flow before M&A, SEK 2.5 billion, impacted by the inventory buildup that we talked about, component inventory. In comparison, Q3 2021 had higher-than-normal cash collection from customers, including rather large amount of prepayments, but also lower-than-usual payments to suppliers. But this quarter, we instead saw good collection, but also impacted then by inventory, which is back to the proactive decision to safeguard delivery times to customers.

好的。如果我們進入下一個，然後再多談談現金流方面，對我們來說，一個關鍵指標當然是併購前的自由現金流，25 億瑞典克朗，受我們談到的庫存增加的影響，組件庫存。相比之下，2021 年第三季度從客戶那裡收取的現金高於正常水平，包括相當多的預付款，但對供應商的付款也低於往常。但本季度，我們反而看到了良好的收貨，但也受到了庫存的影響，這又回到了保障向客戶交貨時間的主動決策。

Based on what we see now, current visibility, we expect this component inventory to come down towards the end of the year and into early next year. At the same time, I want to mention in terms of being forward-looking here that given the market share gains or footprint gains that we have, we believe that working capital will remain on a rather high level as we roll out large volumes globally.

根據我們現在看到的情況，當前的可見性，我們預計該組件庫存將在年底和明年初下降。同時，就前瞻性而言，我想在這裡提一下，鑑於我們擁有的市場份額增加或足跡增加，我們相信隨著我們在全球推出大量產品，營運資金將保持在相當高的水平。

So gross cash position after this quarter now is SEK 45.8 billion and net cash is SEK 13.4 billion. And I would say we have a well-balanced maturity profile here for resilience with a maturity profile of 4.1 years, which is a slight increase from a year ago.

因此，本季度之後的總現金頭寸現在為 458 億瑞典克朗，淨現金為 134 億瑞典克朗。我想說的是，我們這裡的彈性成熟度分佈均衡，成熟度為 4.1 年，比一年前略有增加。

Maybe just a final comment on this slide. When we look at, again, the rolling 4-quarter perspective, we have generated SEK 18.8 billion of free cash flow before M&A, and that's 7.3% of net sales. And you can compare that again to the long-term target of 9% to 12% of sales.

也許只是對這張幻燈片的最後評論。當我們再次查看滾動的 4 個季度的視角時，我們在併購之前產生了 188 億瑞典克朗的自由現金流，占淨銷售額的 7.3%。您可以再次將其與銷售額的 9% 至 12% 的長期目標進行比較。

Next slide, please. I wanted to spend a few minutes on the Vonage acquisition and how the purchase price actually translated into our accounts here, basically starting with the USD 6.3 billion that we announced when we closed the acquisition. And I would like to guide you from that to the numbers that you can see then in our cash flow statement.

請下一張幻燈片。我想花幾分鐘時間了解 Vonage 收購以及收購價格如何實際轉化為我們的賬戶，基本上從我們在完成收購時宣布的 63 億美元開始。我想指導你從那個到你可以在我們的現金流量表中看到的數字。

So first of all, we have a net debt, SEK 7.1 billion deducted. Then there are some deferred considerations here, SEK 2 billion, that's mainly related to employee benefits and stock-based compensation. And finally, we had a benefit here from hedging, SEK 3.7 billion, well done by the treasury team in terms of setting this hedge up for this particular acquisition. And that all results in the SEK 51.3 billion paid, as you can see here in the bottom of the table and in the report. I can also mention that during the quarter, during Q3, we repaid SEK 5.9 billion of Vonage's existing debt. And both the debt side and these shares were paid by cash on hand.

首先，我們有淨債務，扣除 71 億瑞典克朗。然後這裡有一些延期考慮，20 億瑞典克朗，主要與員工福利和股票薪酬有關。最後，我們從對沖中獲得了 37 億瑞典克朗的收益，財務團隊在為這次特定收購設置對沖方面做得很好。所有這些都導致支付了 513 億瑞典克朗，正如您在表格底部和報告中看到的那樣。我還可以提到，在第三季度，我們償還了 Vonage 現有債務的 59 億瑞典克朗。債務方和這些股份都是用手頭的現金支付的。

Before leaving this, I wanted to mention one item here, and I refer you to the other information in the report because there, we talk about discussion between Vonage and the Federal Trade Commission, FTC in the U.S., around historic consumer practices. And there is an estimated here already provided for in Vonage's book of $100 million. And depending on timing of this resolution, et cetera, and the specifics, we might see the cash outflow from that happening in the fourth quarter.

在離開之前，我想在這裡提到一個項目，我建議您參考報告中的其他信息，因為在那裡，我們討論了 Vonage 與美國聯邦貿易委員會 (FTC) 之間圍繞歷史消費者行為的討論。 Vonage 的書中已經提供了 1 億美元的估計。根據該決議的時間等以及具體情況，我們可能會在第四季度看到現金流出。

Yes, you also see we stated goodwill and intangible asset numbers here. It's in line with what we have said before. So goodwill, according to the preliminary PPA, now SEK 43.7 billion and intangible assets, SEK 21.9 billion. And therefore, we expect amortization to be about SEK 2 billion per year.

是的，您還看到我們在這裡陳述了商譽和無形資產數字。這與我們之前所說的一致。如此善意，根據初步購電協議，現在為 437 億瑞典克朗，無形資產為 219 億瑞典克朗。因此，我們預計每年的攤銷約為 20 億瑞典克朗。

Move to my last slide for today. This is about the outlook for Q4 and also for next year, to some extent. And this is repeating then what we are saying in terms of providing information forward. Starting with some specifics for the fourth quarter then, IPR again, we estimate that to be between SEK 1 billion and SEK 1.5 billion IPR revenues in Q4.

轉到我今天的最後一張幻燈片。這在某種程度上是關於第四季度和明年的展望。這就是在重複我們在提供信息方面所說的內容。從第四季度的一些細節開始，再次是知識產權，我們估計第四季度的知識產權收入在 10 億瑞典克朗到 15 億瑞典克朗之間。

OpEx a has a seasonality. It typically increases with some SEK 3.1 billion between Q3 and Q4. And for Q4, I think this could be a pretty good indication where we're heading. But of course, a bit of caution, there can always be some large variations between quarters.

OpEx a 具有季節性。它通常在第三季度和第四季度之間增加約 31 億瑞典克朗。對於第四季度，我認為這可能是我們前進的一個很好的跡象。但是，當然，要小心一點，季度之間總是會有一些很大的差異。

Then regarding Networks. After this record CapEx that we've seen and are seeing in North America in 2022, where we expect the RAN market to grow by 12%, we see that the investments are expected to hold up well during 2023, albeit at a slightly lower level or a lower level than 2022. And we expect that the initial adjustment of CapEx levels to materialize somewhat already in the fourth quarter.

然後關於網絡。在我們在 2022 年看到並看到北美的創紀錄資本支出之後，我們預計 RAN 市場將增長 12%，我們認為投資預計將在 2023 年保持良好，儘管水平略低或低於 2022 年的水平。我們預計資本支出水平的初步調整將在第四季度有所實現。

At the same time, and this is important, we see revenues from footprint wins in other geographies accelerating during the fourth quarter. And we expect that this will compensate for potentially lower sales in North America in the fourth quarter. And as mentioned then, some of these footprint gains, as we have stated before also, in early-stage and large-scale projects, we might have a dilutive impact on the gross margin.

與此同時，這一點很重要，我們看到其他地區的足跡收入在第四季度加速增長。我們預計這將彌補第四季度北美潛在的銷售額下降。如前所述，正如我們之前所說，在早期和大型項目中，我們可能會對毛利率產生稀釋影響。

But of course, as Börje mentioned earlier in his introductory remarks, we focus a lot on increasing the absolute SEK amount here in gross income. So -- and looking at 2023 then, the global footprint gains lead to an expectation we have that 2023 will imply additional growth.

但是，當然，正如 Börje 早些時候在他的介紹性發言中提到的，我們非常關注增加總收入中的絕對瑞典克朗金額。所以——然後展望 2023 年，全球足蹟的增長導致我們預期 2023 年將意味著額外的增長。

So one more thing on Networks then. We stated in the report that we now expect Networks to exceed for 2022 the financial target range that we had provided for Networks, which was 16% to 18%. We expect them to exceed that somewhat. And in Cloud Software and Services, we are now saying in the report that we expect full year 2022 result to equal 2021 full year results.

那麼網絡上的另一件事。我們在報告中表示，我們現在預計 Networks 將在 2022 年超過我們為 Networks 提供的財務目標範圍，即 16% 到 18%。我們預計它們會在某種程度上超過這一點。在雲軟件和服務方面，我們現在在報告中表示，我們預計 2022 年全年業績將與 2021 年全年業績持平。

Finally, just a couple of words before I hand back over to Börje, a couple of words on the inflationary environment that the world is experiencing now. And of course, we are taking action to respond to that situation, basically, 3 fronts. First of all, we are making pricing adjustments with customers, but we also leverage product substitution as a very important mean to rebase our pricing. And here, of course, technology leadership is key again through our R&D investments with the idea to bring new value-adding products to the market.

最後，在我交還給 Börje 之前，請說幾句話，談談世界現在正在經歷的通貨膨脹環境。當然，我們正在採取行動來應對這種情況，基本上是三個方面。首先，我們正在與客戶進行定價調整，但我們也將產品替代作為重新定價的重要手段。當然，在這裡，技術領先再次成為關鍵，通過我們的研發投資以及將新的增值產品推向市場的想法。

We are also, as Börje mentioned, but I'll repeat, simplifying operations in our company and reviewing our options to reduce cost. And we talked in the report about redundancy -- or restructuring costs, rather, which we have since earlier a guidance of 1% of net sales. And we will, of course, come back to that. And all of these actions are, of course, to ensure that we secure our ability to deliver on the long-term financial targets for the group, which is, as you know, 15% to 18% EBITA, excluding restructuring.

正如 Börje 所提到的，我們也在簡化我們公司的運營並審查我們降低成本的選擇，但我會重複一遍。我們在報告中談到了冗餘——或者說是重組成本，我們早些時候將其作為淨銷售額的 1% 的指導。當然，我們會回到這一點。當然，所有這些行動都是為了確保我們有能力實現集團的長期財務目標，如您所知，不包括重組，即 15% 至 18% 的 EBITA。

So with that, I hand back it to our CEO, Mr. Börje Ekholm.

因此，我將其交還給我們的首席執行官 Börje Ekholm 先生。

Thank you, Carl. So to sum up, we've delivered another solid quarter with good business momentum. As you know, our strategy is based on leadership in mobile infrastructure and the focused expansion into enterprise. Mobile infrastructure clearly remains our core, and we're fully dedicated to continue to invest in technology leadership to further strengthen our position. In line with our strategy, we're adding to our footprint, which strengthens our scale and competitiveness.

謝謝你，卡爾。總而言之，我們已經交付了另一個穩健的季度，業務勢頭良好。如您所知，我們的戰略基於在移動基礎設施方面的領先地位和重點向企業擴展。移動基礎設施顯然仍然是我們的核心，我們完全致力於繼續投資於技術領先地位，以進一步鞏固我們的地位。根據我們的戰略，我們正在擴大我們的足跡，以增強我們的規模和競爭力。

The second leg of our strategy is a focused expansion into Enterprise. Here, we added a significant building block by closing the acquisition of Vonage, and we are now starting to have a meaningful presence also in the enterprise space. In Enterprise Wireless Solutions, we almost doubled our sales compared to last year.

我們戰略的第二站是重點向企業擴展。在這裡，我們通過完成對 Vonage 的收購增加了一個重要的組成部分，我們現在也開始在企業領域擁有有意義的存在。在企業無線解決方案中，與去年相比，我們的銷售額幾乎翻了一番。

I will say our strategy puts Ericsson in a position to continue to lead the industry as 5G is rolled out and transform every sector of our society. As you know, network development in North America has been very strong. And after expected record CapEx in 2022, operators are guiding for lower CapEx in 2023. We expect levels to hold up well in 2023, but it will be at a lower level than in 2022.

我想說的是，隨著 5G 的推出並改變我們社會的各個領域，我們的戰略使愛立信能夠繼續引領行業。如您所知，北美的網絡發展非常強勁。在 2022 年預計創紀錄的資本支出之後，運營商正在指導 2023 年降低資本支出。我們預計 2023 年的水平將保持良好，但將低於 2022 年的水平。

Globally, we continue to further strengthen our position by increasing our footprint, and we expect to see lower sales in North America for Q4 to be compensated by growth in other regions. However, these contract wins will ramp up to full volume in 2023. We expect our added footprint to give full effect next year, and we expect to see overall growth in Networks globally in 2023.

在全球範圍內，我們通過增加我們的足跡繼續進一步鞏固我們的地位，我們預計第四季度北美銷售額的下降將被其他地區的增長所彌補。然而，這些合同的贏得將在 2023 年達到全量。我們預計我們增加的足跡將在明年全面發揮作用，我們預計 2023 年全球網絡的整體增長。

To add footprint, that's been a critical part of our strategy since 2017, and it will continue to be a priority. And we know from experience that early-stage, large-scale rollout projects tend to be dilutive to gross margins. However, the increased volume will increase total gross income and, thereby, allowing us to continue to invest in technology leadership, which has been the core of our success over the last few years.

為了增加足跡，這是自 2017 年以來我們戰略的關鍵部分，並將繼續成為優先事項。我們從經驗中知道，早期的大規模推廣項目往往會稀釋毛利率。然而，增加的數量將增加總收入，從而使我們能夠繼續投資於技術領先地位，這一直是我們過去幾年成功的核心。

And if you look at the global 5G market, it's important to remember here that the 5G cycle has really just started. The fact is that less than 1/4 of global LTE nodes have been upgraded to 5G mid-band so far. And as you all know, mid-band frequencies are critical to fully realize the potential for the performance of a true 5G network. So I would say this shows that there is still a lot of growth potential in the market.

如果你看看全球 5G 市場，重要的是要記住，5G 週期才剛剛開始。事實是，目前全球只有不到 1/4 的 LTE 節點升級到 5G 中頻。眾所周知，中頻對於充分發揮真正 5G 網絡的性能潛力至關重要。所以我想說這表明市場仍有很大的增長潛力。

I'd just pick one example, India, where we will see a rapid build-out of mid-band Massive MIMO. India will likely have the strongest digital infrastructure outside of China which will drive digitalization of India. Combine this with the new use cases for 5G both for enterprises, but also for consumers, and that includes, for example, fixed wireless access, we see that the demand for network performance and network infrastructure will continue to be at a high level. So we see the 5G cycle both to be longer and higher than previous cycles and previous mobile generations.

我只舉一個例子，印度，我們將看到中頻大規模 MIMO 的快速發展。印度可能擁有中國以外最強大的數字基礎設施，這將推動印度的數字化。結合企業和消費者的 5G 新用例，包括固定無線接入等，我們看到對網絡性能和網絡基礎設施的需求將繼續處於高水平。因此，我們看到 5G 週期比之前的周期和之前的移動世代更長、更高。

I'm convinced that with 5G, everything that can go wireless will go wireless. So as we continue to navigate a very complex macro environment, and that includes, as Carl mentioned, clear inflationary pressures, but also geopolitical uncertainty, we remain very excited about our future, and we're dedicated to the execution of our strategy based on technology leadership.

我相信，有了 5G，一切可以無線化的東西都會變成無線的。因此，當我們繼續在一個非常複雜的宏觀環境中航行時，其中包括，正如卡爾所說，明顯的通脹壓力，以及地緣政治的不確定性，我們仍然對我們的未來感到非常興奮，我們致力於執行我們的戰略，基於技術領先。

Regarding inflationary pressures, we're already taking actions, and this, of course, includes a focus on cost and really making sure that cost efficiency is the key way to allow us to continue to invest in R&D because, again, technology leadership is really what makes the difference and will allow Ericsson to continue to grow. So we're convinced that, that also is the right focus to remain successful in this competitive market. And we are super excited about our position in this exciting market.

關於通脹壓力，我們已經在採取行動，這當然包括關注成本，並真正確保成本效率是讓我們繼續投資於研發的關鍵方式，因為技術領先確實是是什麼讓愛立信與眾不同，並將讓愛立信繼續發展。因此，我們相信，這也是在這個競爭激烈的市場中保持成功的正確重點。我們對我們在這個令人興奮的市場中的地位感到非常興奮。

One more thing, and that is we're very committed to continue to strengthen our culture, and that, of course, includes the ethics and compliance program. This is one of our key strategic pillars and an area we will continue to invest in. Based on our strong position, we remain committed to reaching our long-term target of an EBITA margin of 15% to 18% no later than 2024.

還有一件事，那就是我們非常致力於繼續加強我們的文化，當然，這包括道德和合規計劃。這是我們的關鍵戰略支柱之一，也是我們將繼續投資的領域。基於我們的強勢地位，我們將繼續致力於不遲於 2024 年實現 EBITA 利潤率 15% 至 18% 的長期目標。

And in December, we'll host our first Capital Markets Day since the pandemic, and we really look forward to welcoming you all in New York, and then we can discuss more in detail our strategy, market developments and our plans to build the competitiveness and future value creation in many years to come.

12 月，我們將舉辦大流行以來的第一個資本市場日，我們非常期待在紐約歡迎大家，然後我們可以更詳細地討論我們的戰略、市場發展和我們建立競爭力的計劃以及未來許多年的未來價值創造。

Finally, I would like to say a big thank you to team Ericsson. It's a lot of hard work and dedication that's got in to make our current position, really the strength of our current position. So I'm proud to be part of this team, and thanks, everyone, for that.

最後，我要非常感謝愛立信團隊。這是我們目前的職位所付出的大量辛勤工作和奉獻精神，這確實是我們目前職位的實力。所以我很自豪能成為這個團隊的一員，並為此感謝大家。

With that, over to you, Peter, for questions.

有了這個，彼得，給你提問。

Thank you, Börje. And so we have now 30 minutes for a question-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你，博爾杰。所以我們現在有 30 分鐘的問答時間。 （操作員說明）

And I see here that we have our first question from Aleksander Peterc at Societe Generale.

我在這裡看到法國興業銀行的 Aleksander Peterc 提出了我們的第一個問題。

So the first question I would have really is on the development in Networks margins. So we see the footprint acquisition costs are back, so this may be good for your longer-term growth, but near term, there's some pressure. So could you just give us an idea of the gross margin decline in Networks sequentially in the third quarter? Is that more down to this footprint acquisition push? Or is it still higher inflationary cost pressures than those that you saw in the previous quarter?

所以我真正想問的第一個問題是關於網絡利潤的發展。因此，我們看到足跡獲取成本又回來了，所以這可能有利於您的長期增長，但短期內存在一些壓力。那麼，您能否告訴我們第三季度 Networks 的毛利率連續下降的情況？這是否更多地歸因於這種足跡收購推動？還是通脹成本壓力仍高於上一季度？

And then obviously, in Q4, you have the usual down seasonality in your gross margins in Networks. But from what I understand, this should be now compounded a little bit by these 2 effects. Could you a little bit develop on that? And then just secondly, very briefly, if you could give us an idea of where the restructuring costs will be directed. Is it at COGS, R&D or SG&A and in which division?

然後很明顯，在第四季度，網絡業務的毛利率通常會出現季節性下降。但據我了解，這兩個效果現在應該有點複雜。你能在這方面有所發展嗎？其次，非常簡單地說，如果你能告訴我們重組成本的方向。是在 COGS、R&D 還是 SG&A，在哪個部門？

Carl, do you want to start?

卡爾，你要開始嗎？

Okay. So thanks, Aleksander. Regarding the Networks gross margin then, and you asked specifically about sequentially, I understand that. But I just wanted to repeat here, the year-over-year comparison is then impacted by the IPR difference, so quite a large amount. On total group, it's SEK 1.1 billion and 82% of that is in Networks.

好的。所以謝謝，亞歷山大。關於網絡的毛利率，你具體詢問了順序，我理解這一點。但我只是想在這裡重複一下，同比比較會受到知識產權差異的影響，所以相當大。在整個集團中，它是 11 億瑞典克朗，其中 82% 來自網絡。

But otherwise, I would say there are a couple of factors impacting Networks here. One is the -- what we have talked about around the component and supply chain cost where we are investing, but it's also a higher cost which we absorb in there.

但除此之外，我想說有幾個因素會影響這裡的網絡。一個是 - 我們已經談到了我們正在投資的組件和供應鏈成本，但這也是我們在那裡吸收的更高成本。

And the other part actually comes from something very positive, and that's the growth that we see and the early-stage, large-scale contracts that we are executing on where the services share is higher. And that has an impact on gross margin. And we have seen before that we might have that initial impact, but then, of course, we recover over time as we roll out. So I would say those are the key impacts on Networks.

另一部分實際上來自非常積極的東西，那就是我們看到的增長以及我們在服務份額更高的地方執行的早期大規模合同。這對毛利率有影響。我們之前已經看到，我們可能會產生最初的影響，但是當然，隨著時間的推移，我們會隨著時間的推移而恢復。所以我想說這些是對網絡的關鍵影響。

I would only add that the -- for the -- you already saw these effects in the third quarter.

我只想補充一點，你已經在第三季度看到了這些影響。

Yes, we should say.

是的，我們應該說。

The increased service share is visible in the result.

結果中可以看到增加的服務份額。

Yes.

是的。

Then you asked about the restructuring. And I'd like to think that what we are going to do is to digitalize and actually simplify Ericsson. That's really our focus. So it's more of a gradual improvement, and we're going to work on taking costs out. I would say it touches both COGS, but also, of course, the G&A structure in the company. And exactly how the split is, let's discuss that at the Capital Markets Day. But we are going to tackle both of these sites because I think, ultimately, a leaner company will be a more agile company and will be better at responding.

然後你問了重組。我想我們要做的是數字化並真正簡化愛立信。這確實是我們的重點。所以這更像是一個漸進的改進，我們將努力降低成本。我想說它既涉及 COGS，當然也涉及公司的 G&A 結構。究竟是如何分裂，讓我們在資本市場日討論這個問題。但是我們將同時處理這兩個站點，因為我認為，最終，一家更精簡的公司將是一家更敏捷的公司，並且會更好地響應。

So I would also say we kind of recognized this earlier, and that's why we launched the group function global operations, and you know that from the spring this year. And the ambition with that function was actually to drive a, call it, a better customer experience by simplifying our processes and digitalizing them. And that's something that we will now more or less accelerate in light of the macro uncertainties.

所以我還要說我們很早就意識到了這一點，這就是我們推出集團職能全球運營的原因，你從今年春天就知道了。該功能的目標實際上是通過簡化我們的流程並將其數字化來推動更好的客戶體驗。鑑於宏觀的不確定性，這就是我們現在或多或少會加速的事情。

Maybe I can add on the cost side as well. If I can add one more thing, it's not only a defensive move because of inflation, it's also about competitiveness, of course. And we constantly work on improving our structural cost base to be really competitive not only on technology, but also on the cost side, of course, in the market.

也許我也可以增加成本。如果我可以再補充一點，這不僅是針對通脹的防禦性舉措，當然也與競爭力有關。我們不斷努力改善我們的結構成本基礎，使其不僅在技術上真正具有競爭力，而且在成本方面，當然，在市場上也是如此。

Thank you, Aleksander, for those 2 questions. So thank you. And now we are ready to move to the next question from the audience, and that one will come from Andreas Joelsson at Danske Bank.

感謝 Aleksander 提出這兩個問題。所以謝謝。現在我們準備好回答聽眾提出的下一個問題，這個問題將來自丹麥銀行的 Andreas Joelsson。

I know that you will come back to this at the CMD, but I need to still ask about Cloud Software and Services. We have seen these deployment costs for a while now, and can you just explain a little bit why there is a delay in the positive impact that we should expect? Has anything changed structurally in this that you see? And also, if we now have a weaker macro situation and the pickup of 5G is further delayed, how will that impact the unit going forward?

我知道您會在 CMD 上再次討論這個問題，但我仍然需要詢問有關雲軟件和服務的問題。我們已經看到這些部署成本有一段時間了，您能否解釋一下為什麼我們應該預期的積極影響會延遲？你看到有什麼結構上的改變嗎？此外，如果我們現在的宏觀形勢較弱，5G 的提速進一步延遲，這將如何影響該部門的未來發展？

And if I may also on IPR, it's SEK 1.1 billion lower. Is that -- there is FX in that, of course, but is the majority of that related to Apple and the litigation process that you're into right now?

如果我也可以考慮知識產權，它會低 11 億瑞典克朗。是嗎 - 當然，其中有 FX，但其中大部分與 Apple 以及您現在正在進行的訴訟程序有關嗎？

Should I take the first part, the IPR part?

我應該參加第一部分，即知識產權部分嗎？

Yes. Yes.

是的。是的。

The reality is we have higher costs for new product introductions, so it has a bigger service content short term. And that's what you see impacting, call it, the margins in Cloud Software and Services. So -- and we knew that from before, and you've seen that before. That continues to be at a high level. We're still only seeing the early stages of deployment of the 5G Core. So revenue-wise, they lag these costs. So they are impacting, that's no -- no doubt about that.

現實情況是我們新產品推出的成本更高，所以短期內服務內容更大。這就是你看到的影響，稱之為雲軟件和服務的利潤。所以——我們從以前就知道了，你以前也見過。這仍然處於高水平。我們仍然只看到 5G Core 部署的早期階段。所以在收入方面，他們落後於這些成本。所以他們正在產生影響，這是不 - 毫無疑問。

I think it's also fair to say that we don't really yet see a slowdown in the rollout of 5G. And I really don't expect to see that either for the simple reason that traffic at the end consumer continues to grow at a healthy rate. So there will be a need to migrate customers over to 5G. So we will see 5G networks increasingly carry traffic in the future. That's at least what we see as of now.

我認為公平地說，我們還沒有真正看到 5G 的推出放緩。而且我真的不希望看到這種情況，原因很簡單，最終消費者的流量繼續以健康的速度增長。因此，需要將客戶遷移到 5G。因此，我們將看到 5G 網絡在未來越來越多地承載流量。這至少是我們現在所看到的。

Then I would say in order to restore profitability or reach profitability, which is really the -- that's the first step, I think we have a much higher potential in this business than that where we can capitalize on our leading position in a good way. But in order to reach that, the first phase here, we need a tighter control on costs. And that's why we put together 2 earlier business areas into 1, so we get a stronger focus on having cost control, but also get synergies on product development because we had overlapping product portfolios between the 2.

然後我會說，為了恢復盈利能力或達到盈利能力，這真的是 - 這是第一步，我認為我們在這項業務中的潛力要高得多，而不是我們可以以良好的方式利用我們的領先地位。但為了達到這一點，這裡的第一階段，我們需要更嚴格地控製成本。這就是為什麼我們將 2 個早期業務領域合併為 1 個，因此我們更加關注成本控制，但也獲得了產品開發的協同效應，因為我們在 2 個之間有重疊的產品組合。

As you can recognize, this takes some time to take out, but that is what the team is working on to really, call it, become much leaner and much better cost structure in the combined entity, leveraging the synergies across the different offerings. So that's where we're working. That will, of course, take some time to get the full benefit, but we should start to see that coming into next year and be in a much better position. So then we'll get helped by the ramp-up of 5G, but also that we're addressing our own, call it, cost position.

正如您所認識到的，這需要一些時間來消除，但這就是團隊正在努力真正做到的，稱之為，在合併後的實體中變得更加精簡和更好的成本結構，利用不同產品之間的協同效應。這就是我們工作的地方。當然，這需要一些時間才能獲得全部收益，但我們應該開始看到明年的情況並處於更好的位置。因此，我們將通過 5G 的增長獲得幫助，而且我們正在解決我們自己的成本定位問題。

Good. And the last question was around IPR and the delta there. And yes, I can say it's -- the big thing here is, of course, contracts under renewal negotiations. So -- and as you know, just as a reminder, when such contracts are entered into, we also have the retroactive effect of that in our P&L from the date of expiry, just so you know that.

好的。最後一個問題是關於知識產權和那裡的增量。是的，我可以說這是 - 當然，這裡的重要事情是續約談判中的合同。所以——正如你所知，提醒一下，當簽訂此類合同時，我們在損益表中也具有從到期日起的追溯效力，所以你知道這一點。

Thank you, Andreas, for those 2 questions. So we are now ready to move into the next question from the audience today. And we have the next question from Francois Bouvignies from UBS.

謝謝你，安德烈亞斯，這兩個問題。所以我們現在準備好進入今天觀眾提出的下一個問題。我們有來自瑞銀的 Francois Bouvignies 的下一個問題。

My 2 questions were, first, on the Vonage acquisition, can you give us a bit some light on the underlying performance of Vonage? Because you just acquired, so I just wanted to reconcile the numbers in the early days of the integration. And how should we think about the Enterprise profitability trend going forward after a number of one-offs maybe this quarter? Just trying to understand the profitability trend that we should take into account in the next 2 quarters.

我的 2 個問題是，首先，關於 Vonage 的收購，您能給我們介紹一下 Vonage 的基本表現嗎？因為你剛剛收購，所以我只是想核對一下整合初期的數字。我們應該如何看待本季度可能經歷了多次一次性的企業盈利趨勢？只是想了解我們在接下來的兩個季度中應該考慮的盈利趨勢。

And my second question is, Börje, you talked about 5G use cases being a driver of the growth and adoption, specifically in India, for example, for next-generation contracts. And we asked you many times, I guess, in the past, the use cases for 5G that you see that could be a game-changer for the adoption. Can you list maybe some use cases that you see particularly interesting? And how is it evolving there? Because when we talk to operators, it doesn't seem that obvious or in terms of use cases, especially like, for example, in China when they struggle to see much application or use cases. Just to have -- wanted to have your perspective here and how is it evolving?

我的第二個問題是，Börje，您談到 5G 用例是增長和採用的驅動力，特別是在印度，例如，對於下一代合同。我們問過你很多次，我想，在過去，你看到的 5G 用例可能會改變遊戲規則的採用。您能否列出一些您認為特別有趣的用例？它在那裡如何發展？因為當我們與運營商交談時，它似乎並不那麼明顯，或者就用例而言，尤其是在中國，當他們很難看到很多應用程序或用例時。只是想擁有你的觀點，它是如何發展的？

Yes. Why don't you start with the other -- I can go first with the 5G use cases, you take the other 2. Yes, this is an interesting question. The reality is when 4G was introduced, everybody would say, if you ask operators, that you don't really need 4G because you had 3G. That proved to be incorrect. And the reality is with 5G, we're starting to see a number of emerging use cases.

是的。你為什麼不從另一個開始——我可以先從 5G 用例開始，你拿另外兩個。是的，這是一個有趣的問題。現實情況是，當 4G 推出時，如果你問運營商，每個人都會說，你真的不需要 4G，因為你有 3G。事實證明這是不正確的。現實是 5G，我們開始看到一些新興的用例。

Maybe the first one is, that's actually already today commercial, is fixed wireless access. And we see that gaining traction quite fast, for example, in North America. But we also see what other operators around the world are doing like in India. So we see that as a completely untapped revenue pool today, will be captured by building out, of course, the 5G network both in mid-band, but also in millimeter wave in order to capture that. We think that has a massive potential. So that's one thing.

也許第一個是，實際上已經在今天商業化，是固定無線接入。我們看到，例如在北美，這種趨勢獲得了相當快的發展。但我們也看到了世界各地的其他運營商在印度所做的事情。因此，我們認為，作為今天一個完全未開發的收入池，將通過構建中頻和毫米波的 5G 網絡來捕獲，以便捕獲它。我們認為這具有巨大的潛力。所以這是一回事。

But then I think the other where we're starting to see emerging use cases, for example, is the connectivity, simple connectivity to a enterprise. Where in the 4G world, it was typically fixed access; today, we are starting to see some SMEs de facto using wireless as the primary connectivity. And that's what we're seeing is benefiting the growth in Cradlepoint, for example.

但後來我認為我們開始看到新興用例的另一個地方是連接，即與企業的簡單連接。在 4G 世界中，通常是固定訪問；今天，我們開始看到一些中小企業事實上使用無線作為主要連接。例如，這就是我們所看到的有利於 Cradlepoint 的增長。

And just to give you another case is, of course, within factories or private networks or dedicated networks, there, we see a rather large amount of use cases, for example, for self-driving vehicles, self-guided vehicles, factory automation, et cetera, used in mines, enterprises, and you're already starting to see that market shaping up quite substantially.

再舉一個例子，當然，在工廠或私有網絡或專用網絡中，我們看到了相當多的用例，例如，自動駕駛汽車、自動導航汽車、工廠自動化、等等，用於礦山、企業，你已經開始看到這個市場相當大的形成。

Part of that market will be captured directly from the enterprises, of course, and that's why we're building up an enterprise presence. Part of that will be captured by the operators. And I would say we don't know how that market is going to shape up, but it will happen.

當然，該市場的一部分將直接從企業那裡獲得，這就是我們建立企業存在的原因。其中一部分將被運營商捕獲。我想說我們不知道這個市場將如何形成，但它會發生。

And the last element, I think it's equally important, is we're starting to see -- and here, we have worked together with a number of application developers on how they need to use speed, latency to drive new applications. And those are clearly where we believe our Vonage acquisition will fit perfectly in order to have a platform to present those.

最後一個元素，我認為同樣重要，是我們開始看到 - 在這裡，我們與許多應用程序開發人員合作，研究他們需要如何使用速度和延遲來驅動新應用程序。這些顯然是我們相信我們對 Vonage 的收購將完美契合的地方，以便擁有一個展示這些內容的平台。

And here, what are we talking about? We're talking about collaboration software, we're talking about XR, VR applications that will start to come. And we will very soon start to see devices that will need the speed, latency, ability for mobile edge compute, et cetera. And those will actually spur demands for completely new use cases.

在這裡，我們在說什麼？我們談論的是協作軟件，我們談論的是 XR，VR 應用程序將開始出現。我們很快就會開始看到需要速度、延遲、移動邊緣計算能力等的設備。這些實際上會刺激對全新用例的需求。

So I think we need -- when we talk about this, everyone looks for the silver bullet, the magic killer application, so to say. I think we will start to see those emerge in 1, 2, 3 years as Networks really get fully developed. That's when you start to see the benefit of 5G in society. So what we see is still a very strong development and a very exciting development. If you only offer mobile broadband, I think then it's going to be a different market. Then it's only a, call it, capacity add-on to 4G, then it's very different. But we see those new use cases starting to develop now.

所以我認為我們需要——當我們談論這個問題時，每個人都在尋找靈丹妙藥，可以說是魔法殺手應用程序。我認為隨著網絡真正得到充分發展，我們將在 1、2、3 年內開始看到這些技術出現。那時你開始看到 5G 在社會中的好處。所以我們看到的仍然是非常強勁的發展，也是非常激動人心的發展。如果你只提供移動寬帶，我認為那將是一個不同的市場。那麼它只是一個，稱之為 4G 的容量附加，然後它是非常不同的。但我們看到這些新用例現在開始發展。

I think, Börje, you basically addressed the other question very well as well on the Enterprise side. But maybe a few more words there on Enterprise. Of course, for Vonage, it's early days, honestly, we have 2 months and 10 days. And as we said, and I think this is quite important during this period, Vonage underlying if we include -- exclude some of these acquisition accounting and one-offs and so on, they are EBITA positive and also cash flow positive in the quarter. So that's a very good sign.

我認為，Börje，您基本上在企業方面也很好地解決了另一個問題。但也許還有關於 Enterprise 的幾句話。當然，對於 Vonage 來說，現在還處於早期階段，老實說，我們還有 2 個月零 10 天。正如我們所說，我認為這在此期間非常重要，如果我們包括 - 排除其中一些收購會計和一次性等，它們是 EBITA 正值，並且本季度現金流量也是正值。所以這是一個非常好的跡象。

I think very important and Börje described, this is about growth here in the Enterprise side. We see great growth in Cradlepoint, and we expect that in Vonage as well. And on Vonage, of course, we're looking at this through 3 horizons or 3 lenses, right, the existing Vonage business to boost that and continue growing that; and secondly, the synergies from Vonage offerings into Ericsson's global footprint of customers; and then thirdly, of course, what Börje really talked about, the network API side of the business where we can create an entirely new market.

我認為非常重要，Börje 描述了，這是關於企業方面的增長。我們在 Cradlepoint 看到了巨大的增長，我們預計在 Vonage 中也是如此。當然，在 Vonage 上，我們正在通過 3 個視野或 3 個鏡頭來看待這一點，對，現有的 Vonage 業務將推動這一點並繼續發展；其次，Vonage 產品與愛立信全球客戶足蹟的協同效應；第三，當然，Börje 真正談到的業務的網絡 API 方面，我們可以在其中創建一個全新的市場。

And of course, altogether, we see this as very value accretive for the group. At the CMD, I think we will come back for sure to the Enterprise side and describe, lay out a bit more the strategy and the expectations there.

當然，總的來說，我們認為這對團隊來說非常有價值。在 CMD 上，我認為我們肯定會回到企業方面，並在那裡描述、闡述更多的戰略和期望。

Thank you, Francois. I hope you're happy with those answers. So we'll move to the next question for today, and we will have that one coming up from Pierre Ferragu at New Street.

謝謝你，弗朗索瓦。我希望你對這些答案感到滿意。所以我們將轉到今天的下一個問題，我們將在新街的 Pierre Ferragu 處提出這個問題。

This is Ben Harwood standing in for Pierre. He's in a [mute] environment and can't speak.

這是本哈伍德代表皮埃爾。他處於[靜音]環境中，無法說話。

Okay. That's okay as well.

好的。那也沒關係。

We just had a couple of questions on your Enterprise business. So we just want to know how you view the competitive landscape in the wireless enterprise network, so -- and then what are your competitive advantages? And how do you see yourself competing with companies that are partnering with either hyperscalers or enterprise companies that already have a fairly broad sales reach?

我們剛剛對您的企業業務提出了幾個問題。所以我們只想知道您如何看待無線企業網絡中的競爭格局，那麼——那麼您的競爭優勢是什麼？您如何看待自己與與超大規模企業或已經擁有相當廣泛銷售範圍的企業合作的公司競爭？

Börje?

博耶？

That's a great question. I think this is something that we'll spend a lot more time on in the Capital Markets Day. But to give you a quick couple of comments, yes, you're absolutely right, this is a competitive space. We feel though that we're the market leader in the wireless WAN edge today through Cradlepoint so that we're well positioned here already. And we have a very strong and growing presence in Dedicated Networks built upon some clear product advantages. So we believe we are going to continue to develop this strongly.

這是一個很好的問題。我認為這是我們將在資本市場日花費更多時間的事情。但是給你一些快速的評論，是的，你是絕對正確的，這是一個競爭空間。我們認為，我們今天通過 Cradlepoint 成為無線廣域網邊緣的市場領導者，因此我們已經在這方面處於有利地位。基於一些明顯的產品優勢，我們在專用網絡中擁有非常強大且不斷增長的影響力。因此，我們相信我們將繼續大力發展這一點。

Of course, the space is going to be having a lot of competition coming in also from hyperscalers. And we see that our solutions will be really run on hyperscalers as well. So I think we should not only think of them as competitors, they're going to be partners for us as well in order to reach the market.

當然，這個領域也將面臨來自超大規模企業的大量競爭。我們看到我們的解決方案也將真正在超大規模計算機上運行。所以我認為我們不僅應該將他們視為競爭對手，他們也將成為我們的合作夥伴，以便進入市場。

Thanks, Börje. Thank you for that question. So we have still 10 minutes to go. So I'll move to the next question in the call, and that one is from Janardan Menon at Jefferies.

謝謝，博耶。謝謝你的問題。所以我們還有10分鐘的時間。因此，我將轉到電話會議中的下一個問題，該問題來自 Jefferies 的 Janardan Menon。

Just wanted to go a little bit more into the outlook for gross margin into 2023 and into Q4 arising from the sort of shifting landscape of regions for the Networks division. So you are saying that U.S. or North America will be down next year. Can you give us an idea of how much it will be down at this point? I know that visibility for the full year may be low, but what is your initial feel since you've already said that it will be down?

只是想更深入地了解到 2023 年和第四季度的毛利率前景，這是由於網絡部門的區域格局不斷變化而引起的。所以你是說美國或北美明年會下降。你能告訴我們此時它會下降多少嗎？我知道全年的能見度可能很低，但既然你已經說過它會下降，你最初的感覺是什麼？

And just from a product mix point of view -- I mean, sort of a regional mix point of view, what can we assume as a sort of impact on gross margin? And is it something that will be sort of a bigger hit in Q4 and maybe first 1 or 2 quarters of next year, and then as you go through the initial phase of deployment in places like India, the margin will rise into the second half of next year? So what I'm saying is, should the gross margin profile be one of a steady increase from a lower point, say, in the early part of next year all the way into Q4? Is that how we should look at it? And then I have a brief follow-up, if I may.

僅從產品組合的角度來看——我的意思是，從區域組合的角度來看，我們可以假設對毛利率有什麼影響？它是否會在第四季度以及明年的前 1 或 2 個季度受到更大的衝擊，然後當您在印度等地進行部署的初始階段時，利潤率將上升到下半年明年？所以我要說的是，毛利率是否應該是從較低點穩步增長的情況之一，例如，在明年年初一直到第四季度？我們應該這樣看待它嗎？如果可以的話，我會進行簡短的跟進。

Do you want to start?

你想開始？

Okay. Yes, exactly, so what we talked about in the report is that the U.S. will hold up, we think, so North America that is, but with -- on a lower level. Exactly how -- what the amounts, we're not providing detail on. But we think it's very key to realize that we also win business in other parts of the globe, across the globe and that, that will compensate.

好的。是的，確切地說，所以我們在報告中談到的是，我們認為，美國將堅持下去，所以北美就是這樣，但水平較低。確切的方式 - 金額是多少，我們沒有提供詳細信息。但我們認為，認識到我們也在全球其他地區、全球範圍內贏得業務是非常關鍵的，這將彌補這一點。

How the gross margin will develop? We comment that by talking about some of these footprint wins where it tends to have a dilutive impact in the beginning, but that over time then, that comes back. So of course, on your question, how it will develop during next year, it's a function of when these projects are ramping up and volumes in big rollout projects and so on come in. But again, we focus a lot on this, of course, and even more so on the gross margin -- or the gross income, sorry, delivery here because in absolute money, that is what drives our ability to invest in technology. I think that's what we can say now. Börje?

毛利率將如何發展？我們評論說，通過談論其中一些足跡，它在開始時往往會產生稀釋影響，但隨著時間的推移，這種情況又會回來。所以當然，關於你的問題，明年它將如何發展，這取決於這些項目何時增加以及大型推出項目的數量等。但同樣，我們當然會非常關注這一點，甚至更重要的是毛利率——或者說毛收入，抱歉，在這裡交付，因為以絕對金錢計算，這就是推動我們投資技術的能力。我想這就是我們現在可以說的。博耶？

Yes. And remember, you're asking a question on a quarterly basis. Our contracts are rather long and it has a long rollout cycle. So how it exactly hits each quarter will always be a bit subject to kind of what happens. So we're trying more to give the overall sense where these type of developments will be next year.

是的。請記住，您每季度都會問一個問題。我們的合同很長，而且推出週期很長。因此，它如何準確地影響每個季度總是會受到某種情況的影響。因此，我們正在嘗試更多地給出明年這類發展的總體感覺。

So I would encourage you more to think about what is it we're trying to do. Yes, it's actually to strengthen our market position. And based on that, we will manage gross margins following a bit this guidance that Carl went through. But it's all the way. And I understand your desire to have this on a quarterly basis, but it's a bit in these large contracts. That's why they are a bit -- swings between quarters are not inconsequential, let's call it that.

所以我會鼓勵你更多地思考我們正在嘗試做的事情。是的，實際上是為了鞏固我們的市場地位。在此基礎上，我們將按照卡爾經歷的一些指導來管理毛利率。但它是所有的方式。我理解你希望每季度擁有一次，但在這些大合同中有點。這就是為什麼它們有點 - 季度之間的波動並非無關緊要，讓我們稱之為。

It's very true. And I think on the big picture also, I think it's good to remember the 15% to 18% EBITA, that captures all of this actually. And as you know, we said in fourth quarter '21 that we will reach that point, that range, within 2 to 3 years. Now we specify that we're talking 2024. That's our ambition. That's what we're going for as a company. And of course, we will manage quarterly swings and so on to get to that longer-term position.

這是非常真實的。而且我認為從大局來看，我認為記住 15% 到 18% 的 EBITA 是很好的，它實際上涵蓋了所有這些。如您所知，我們在 21 年第四季度說過，我們將在 2 到 3 年內達到那個點，那個範圍。現在我們指定我們談論的是 2024 年。這是我們的雄心壯志。這就是我們作為一家公司的目標。當然，我們將管理季度波動等以達到長期立場。

Thank you, Carl. You had a follow-up as well, Janardan.

謝謝你，卡爾。你也有後續行動，賈納丹。

Yes, just very quickly. So on the 2024 target, so what would be the key factor in that jump? I mean can we have -- is there an increasing amount of confidence that the previous sort of Digital Services business, so the current Cloud and Software business, will reach that critical mass and be a bigger jump into 2024? Or is it more coming from the Enterprise business where those profit margins, including on Cradlepoint and Vonage, will become bigger? I agree that you'll probably give us more color on that at your Capital Markets Day, but just as an initial view, what would be the moving parts on that would be very useful.

是的，只是非常快。那麼在 2024 年的目標上，那麼跳躍的關鍵因素是什麼？我的意思是，我們是否有越來越多的信心，即以前的數字服務業務，因此當前的雲和軟件業務，將達到臨界質量，並在 2024 年實現更大的飛躍？還是更多來自企業業務，包括 Cradlepoint 和 Vonage 在內的利潤率會變得更大？我同意你可能會在你的資本市場日給我們更多的顏色，但作為一個初步的觀點，這將是非常有用的移動部分。

Clearly, we think we sit with a very good business in Cloud Software and Services. And that clearly will be a big part of the contribution to reaching these long-term targets, that's for sure, and especially swinging from a loss into a profitability. So that's one part. But of course, the rest is -- what we see is really on the Enterprise side, where we're going to continue to grow and strengthen our position. So it's all about the mix of those 2 contributing. But we'll go into this in greater detail when we meet in December.

顯然，我們認為我們在雲軟件和服務方面擁有非常好的業務。這顯然將成為實現這些長期目標的重要部分，這是肯定的，尤其是從虧損轉為盈利。所以這是一部分。但當然，剩下的就是——我們真正看到的是在企業方面，我們將繼續發展並鞏固我們的地位。所以這都是關於這兩個貢獻的混合。但我們會在 12 月開會時更詳細地討論這個問題。

Thanks, Janardan. We will now actually move into the last question for today's session, and we will have the last question coming up from Sandeep Deshpande at JPMorgan.

謝謝，賈納丹。我們現在將進入今天會議的最後一個問題，摩根大通的 Sandeep Deshpande 將提出最後一個問題。

Sorry, I might have missed the question, so if this was asked, please excuse me. My question is on the Cloud Software and Services. I mean this business, in its previous incarnations, always was underperforming as well. As part of this restructuring, what will be done in this business to make it better performing? And what has changed in the business this year that the guidance is now given to be flat with last year in EBIT? Something has deteriorated here, so we would like to understand that.

對不起，我可能錯過了這個問題，所以如果被問到這個問題，請原諒。我的問題是關於雲軟件和服務的。我的意思是，這家企業在其以前的化身中，也總是表現不佳。作為此次重組的一部分，該業務將採取哪些措施使其表現更好？今年的業務發生了什麼變化，現在給出的指導與去年的息稅前利潤持平？這裡有些東西惡化了，所以我們想了解這一點。

Sandeep, if we start with the business promise, if we -- or if we look at it from a -- you're absolutely right, we have underperformed in this area for a long time. But we have also seen a relatively strong improvement compared to 2017 when losses were running much bigger than today. So it's always a journey. So of course, we got to this level, and we're not happy at this level. We need to fix this. It should be a profitable business. With our market position and the technology we offer, this has all the potential to be profitable.

桑迪普，如果我們從商業承諾開始，如果我們——或者如果我們從一個角度來看——你是絕對正確的，我們在這個領域的表現已經很長一段時間了。但與 2017 年相比，我們也看到了相對強勁的改善，當時損失比今天大得多。所以它總是一個旅程。所以當然，我們達到了這個水平，我們在這個水平上並不開心。我們需要解決這個問題。它應該是一項有利可圖的業務。憑藉我們的市場地位和我們提供的技術，這具有盈利的潛力。

So if you look at the improvements over the past couple of years, a lot of it comes from basically turning around parts of the business like our BSS offering, for example. But where we now have or have challenges, I would say, is of course on our 5G Core. And that has taken a bit longer to get to market than we expected a year ago, and it has carried a lot more system integration cost and early, call it, service costs than we anticipated a year ago. But we have also a lot of geopolitical developments that you are well familiar with, and that also impacts the business volume in Cloud Software and Services very detrimentally so. And that has also hurt the business this year. So it's a multitude of factors.

因此，如果您查看過去幾年的改進，其中很大一部分來自於基本上扭轉了部分業務，例如我們的 BSS 產品。但我想說，我們現在面臨或面臨挑戰的地方當然是我們的 5G 核心。這比我們一年前的預期花費了更長的時間進入市場，並且它帶來了比我們一年前預期的更多的系統集成成本和早期服務成本。但是我們也有很多你非常熟悉的地緣政治發展，這也對雲軟件和服務的業務量產生了非常不利的影響。這也損害了今年的業務。所以這是多方面的因素。

So what we said here is that given that backdrop, that's why we also felt we need to get more synergies out in the investments we make for the future. And that's why we combined Managed Services and Digital Services so we can start to create those type of offerings that leverages the synergies between the 2. Of course, there is a G&A synergy by removing one business area, but there are other synergies on the R&D side as we invest in AI and machine learning and actually the distribution of those software to our customers. That's where we get the big benefit. That will take some time to get out, but that's where the team is really focused on getting the benefits out.

所以我們在這裡所說的是，鑑於這種背景，這就是為什麼我們還認為我們需要在我們為未來進行的投資中獲得更多的協同效應。這就是我們將託管服務和數字服務結合起來的原因，這樣我們就可以開始創建利用兩者之間協同作用的產品類型。當然，通過刪除一個業務領域可以產生 G&A 協同作用，但在研發方面還有其他協同作用在我們投資人工智能和機器學習以及將這些軟件分發給我們的客戶時。這就是我們獲得巨大利益的地方。這需要一些時間才能擺脫，但這正是團隊真正專注於獲得收益的地方。

Thanks, Sandeep. And thanks, Börje, and thanks, Carl, for good answers in this session. But before concluding, I just want to repeat what Börje said that we will have the Capital Markets Day in New York, December 15. And there will be possibilities to register at the upcoming week here for all of you that want to participate.

謝謝，桑迪普。感謝 Börje 和 Carl 在本次會議中提供的出色答案。但在結束之前，我只想重複一下 Börje 所說的，我們將於 12 月 15 日在紐約舉行資本市場日。所有想要參加的人都可以在接下來的一周在這裡註冊。

So by that, thank you all for participating in today's call.

因此，感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Thank you.

謝謝你。