Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (ERIC) 2022 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello and (foreign language) everyone, and welcome to today's presentation of Ericsson's Second Quarter Result 2022. Together here in the studio, I have our CFO, Carl Mellander; and our CEO, Börje Ekholm. As usual, we will start this session with a presentation of around 20 minutes, and then we will have the Q&A session. More details around that, you will be able to find on our web page, ericsson.com/investors.

大家好（外語），歡迎收看今天愛立信 2022 年第二季度業績報告。在工作室裡，我有我們的首席財務官 Carl Mellander；和我們的首席執行官 Börje Ekholm。像往常一樣，我們將以大約 20 分鐘的演示開始本次會議，然後我們將進行問答環節。有關這方面的更多詳細信息，您可以在我們的網頁 ericsson.com/investors 上找到。

I will start with this first. During today's presentation, we will be making forward-looking statements. These statements are based on our current expectation and certain planning assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. The actual result may differ materially due to factors mentioned in today's press release and discussed in this conference call. We encourage you to read about these risks and uncertainties in our earnings report as well as in our annual report.

我將首先從這個開始。在今天的演講中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述。這些陳述基於我們當前的預期和某些計劃假設，這些假設受到風險和不確定性的影響。由於今天的新聞稿中提到並在本次電話會議中討論的因素，實際結果可能存在重大差異。我們鼓勵您在我們的收益報告和年度報告中了解這些風險和不確定性。

With that said, I would like to start with giving the word to you, Börje. Please, Börje.

話雖如此，我想先告訴你，Börje。拜託了，博耶。

Thank you, Peter, and good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's presentation. And a big thank you for joining us, of course. I'm pleased to present another quarter where we continue to see a strong business performance. We are growing, driven by the global rollout of 5G networks as well as market share gains. Today, we have a 39% RAN market share, and that's, of course, excluding Mainland China, and that's up from 33% in 2017.

謝謝你，彼得，大家早上好，歡迎來到今天的演講。當然，非常感謝您加入我們。我很高興介紹另一個季度，我們繼續看到強勁的業務表現。在全球推出 5G 網絡以及市場份額增加的推動下，我們正在成長。今天，我們擁有 39% 的 RAN 市場份額，當然，不包括中國大陸，這比 2017 年的 33% 有所上升。

Today, 50% of the world's 5G traffic outside of China is carried over Ericsson Radio Networks, and 80% of the top 20 operators in the world are using our 5G Core. Fundamental to our strategy is technology leadership. And since 2017, we have increased our investments in R&D significantly, and we're committed to continuing this journey of innovation. This includes investments in our mobile infrastructure business, but also developing a leading offering in the Enterprise space.

如今，全球 50% 的中國境外 5G 流量通過愛立信無線網絡承載，全球前 20 家運營商中有 80% 正在使用我們的 5G 核心網。我們戰略的基礎是技術領先。自 2017 年以來，我們大幅增加了對研發的投資，並致力於繼續這一創新之旅。這包括對我們的移動基礎設施業務的投資，還包括在企業領域開發領先的產品。

In the quarter, we announced some changes to our structure, and that will allow us to speed up and accelerate the execution of our strategy. With 5G, anything that can go wireless will go wireless. This puts Ericsson in a very good position as 5G is rolled out and transform every sector of the society.

在本季度，我們宣布對我們的結構進行一些調整，這將使我們能夠加快和加快戰略的執行。有了 5G，任何可以無線化的東西都會變成無線的。隨著 5G 的推出並改變社會的各個領域，這使愛立信處於非常有利的地位。

So now let me go through some of the key takeaways from the quarter. We see good business momentum and our underlying business is developing well. We continue to drive improvements through the introduction of new innovative solutions and continues to improve our underlying operation. In the quarter, we saw organic sales growth of 5%, with gross income reaching SEK 26.3 billion. This is driven by strong 5G momentum in North America as well as in Europe.

所以現在讓我回顧一下本季度的一些關鍵要點。我們看到良好的業務發展勢頭，我們的基礎業務發展良好。我們繼續通過引入新的創新解決方案來推動改進，並繼續改進我們的基礎運營。本季度，我們看到有機銷售額增長 5%，總收入達到 263 億瑞典克朗。這是由北美和歐洲強勁的 5G 勢頭推動的。

Our EBITA margin for rolling 4 quarters were 14%. That's tracking close to our long-term target of a margin of 15% to 18%. And that's a target we are committed to reaching in the next 2 to 3 years, while we establish also Ericsson on a stronger long-term growth trajectory.

我們滾動 4 個季度的 EBITA 利潤率為 14%。這接近我們 15% 至 18% 的利潤率的長期目標。這是我們致力於在未來 2 到 3 年內實現的目標，同時我們還將愛立信建立在更強勁的長期增長軌道上。

This is a testament to the hard work and commitment from our colleagues across the company who has continued to deliver to our customers in spite of a very challenging supply situation, and a big thank you to our team out in the world.

這證明了我們全公司同事的辛勤工作和承諾，儘管供應形勢非常嚴峻，但他們仍繼續為我們的客戶提供服務，並非常感謝我們在世界各地的團隊。

You all know the global supply chain situation remains really challenging and inflationary pressures are significant. We're investing, and we have been investing, actually dating back several years, to derisk our supply chain to build resiliency. This has included creating a more flexible manufacturing footprint, but we have also invested in building buffer inventories. And this, of course, leads to a larger inventory situation in the company.

眾所周知，全球供應鏈形勢依然嚴峻，通脹壓力巨大。我們正在投資，而且實際上可以追溯到幾年前，我們一直在投資，以降低我們供應鏈的風險以建立彈性。這包括創造更靈活的製造足跡，但我們也投資建立緩衝庫存。當然，這會導致公司更大的庫存情況。

Ensuring supply in a difficult supply environment is associated with extra costs. However, we see this as a key driver of our ability to actually expand the footprint and strengthen our scale. And from a long-term perspective, we believe this is critical.

在困難的供應環境中確保供應會產生額外的成本。然而，我們認為這是我們實際擴大足跡和加強規模的能力的關鍵驅動力。從長遠來看，我們認為這是至關重要的。

I remain convinced that actually lost sales cost more from a long-term perspective than carrying a bit of extra inventory short term or for a few quarters. That's basically like an insurance premium for the future. So this ability to deliver despite a very challenging supply situation we believe is critical to establish a stronger footprint and thus a bigger scale, which will drive our long-term profitability.

我仍然堅信，從長期的角度來看，實際損失的銷售成本比短期或幾個季度增加一點庫存要多。這基本上就像未來的保險費。因此，儘管供應形勢非常嚴峻，但我們認為這種交付能力對於建立更強大的足跡和更大的規模至關重要，這將推動我們的長期盈利能力。

To handle these extra costs, of course, we're going to see compensation as contracts expire. But we believe that the key drivers to combat the cost increases will be to continuously launch new innovative products and solutions with new features as well as lower costs. And that's what we have used the last few years to turn around the company, and we continue to use that in order to actually combat the cost inflation, and we have continued to do that during the quarter.

當然，為了處理這些額外費用，我們將看到合同到期時的補償。但我們認為，應對成本上漲的關鍵驅動力將是不斷推出具有新功能和更低成本的創新產品和解決方案。這就是我們過去幾年用來扭轉公司局面的方法，我們繼續使用它來實際對抗成本膨脹，我們在本季度繼續這樣做。

The gross margin came in at 42.2%, excluding restructuring, and that's lower than what it was last year, 43.4%. The decline in gross margin is largely attributed to lower IPR revenues in the quarter. That means we've been able to mitigate a large part of the cost inflation with the continuous improvement of the business as well as product substitution.

不包括重組，毛利率為 42.2%，低於去年的 43.4%。毛利率的下降主要歸因於本季度知識產權收入的下降。這意味著我們已經能夠通過不斷改進業務以及產品替代來緩解大部分成本膨脹。

IPR revenues are affected by several expiring patent license agreements and that we are renegotiating, and also some other 5G license negotiations. And we're confident in our strong 5G patent portfolio, and we will seek to optimize the return from that portfolio. And here, we believe, we're in a strong position to negotiate, of course, good future license deals. So we will seek the right deal rather than -- or that will lead maybe to slippage in time because it's more important for us to have the right deal than do it fast.

知識產權收入受到一些即將到期的專利許可協議的影響，我們正在重新談判，以及其他一些 5G 許可談判。我們對我們強大的 5G 專利組合充滿信心，我們將尋求優化該組合的回報。在這裡，我們相信，我們在談判方面處於有利地位，當然，未來的許可交易也很好。因此，我們將尋求正確的交易，而不是 - 或者這可能會導致時間延誤，因為對我們來說，達成正確的交易比快速完成更重要。

Gross income improved by SEK 2.4 billion and EBIT by SEK 1.5 billion compared to Q2 last year. We also continue to engage with the U.S. authorities, the DOJ as well as SEC in relation to the 2019 Iraq investigation and the DPA breaches. At this point in time, we cannot assess how these matters will be resolved. We remain, however, fully committed to cooperating with the authorities as this process go on.

與去年第二季度相比，總收入增加了 24 億瑞典克朗，息稅前利潤增加了 15 億瑞典克朗。我們還繼續與美國當局、司法部和 SEC 就 2019 年伊拉克調查和 DPA 違規行為進行接觸。目前，我們無法評估這些問題將如何解決。然而，隨著這一進程的進行，我們仍然完全致力於與當局合作。

We also continue to increase our investments in ethics and compliance. Actually, a large part of the increase in our SG&A during the quarter is attributed to investments in ethics and compliance. We further need to make sure that we have integrity in all decision-making in the company, as well as that we have a prudent approach to risk taking and risk measurements in the company. And we believe that all of those investments that we do in changing the culture as well as our processes and procedures will make Ericsson a stronger and more resilient company in the future.

我們還繼續增加在道德和合規方面的投資。實際上，本季度我們的 SG&A 增長的很大一部分歸功於對道德和合規性的投資。我們還需要確保我們在公司的所有決策中保持誠信，以及我們對公司的風險承擔和風險衡量採取審慎的態度。我們相信，我們在改變文化以及我們的流程和程序方面所做的所有投資將使愛立信在未來成為一家更強大、更有彈性的公司。

Let me now turn to the customer and market side of our business, where we continue to see strong traction across the business with organic growth in 4 out of 5 market areas. Our strong momentum in North America continues, where sales were up 12% year-over-year; FX adjusted, of course, and that's driven by continued high demand for 5G solutions in Networks. And the U.S. customers continue to be at the forefront of 5G deployment and the introduction of new use cases.

現在讓我談談我們業務的客戶和市場方面，我們繼續看到整個業務的強大牽引力，5 個市場領域中有 4 個實現有機增長。我們在北美的強勁勢頭仍在繼續，銷售額同比增長 12%；當然，FX 進行了調整，這是由於網絡對 5G 解決方案的持續高需求推動的。美國客戶繼續處於 5G 部署和新用例引入的前沿。

Overall sales in Southeast Asia, Oceania and India increased by 6%. This was driven by Networks and Digital Services, where we saw market share gains. Sales in Northeast Asia had a small decline of 1% year-over-year. That was mainly due to the timing of 5G rollouts. In Middle East and Africa, sales increased by 8% year-over-year. That's predominantly driven by Africa, with 4G rollouts as well as software upgrades in Digital Services. Overall, we continue to see a very encouraging momentum in the market.

東南亞、大洋洲和印度的整體銷售額增長了 6%。這是由網絡和數字服務推動的，我們看到了市場份額的增長。東北亞地區銷售額同比小幅下降 1%。這主要是由於 5G 推出的時機。在中東和非洲，銷售額同比增長 8%。這主要是由非洲推動的，4G 的推出以及數字服務的軟件升級。總體而言，我們繼續看到市場的勢頭非常令人鼓舞。

And finally, in Europe and Latin America, sales increased by 4% year-over-year, and that is thanks to growth in Europe, while Latin America was stable. Overall, we continue to see very good momentum on market share gains in Europe with Networks showing double-digit growth despite sales being affected, of course, by the invasion of Ukraine, and Russia impacted sales by SEK 1.2 billion -- or lost sales by SEK 1.2 billion during the quarter.

最後，在歐洲和拉丁美洲，銷售額同比增長 4%，這要歸功於歐洲的增長，而拉丁美洲則保持穩定。總體而言，我們繼續看到歐洲市場份額增長的良好勢頭，儘管銷售額受到了影響，當然，受到烏克蘭入侵的影響，以及俄羅斯影響了 12 億瑞典克朗的銷售額——或者銷售額下降了本季度為 12 億瑞典克朗。

So let me now move over to our strategy, and that's based on leadership in Mobile Networks as well as a focused expansion into Enterprise. In the quarter, we took a key step to accelerate our strategy execution by introducing a new group structure. On the Mobile Networks side, we've introduced a new segment, Cloud Software and Services by merging Digital Services and Managed Services. This will allow us to capitalize on the convergence of Cloud Software and Services and grow our core mobile infrastructure business. And we, of course, remain very committed to turn around the business as quickly as possible in that segment in order to support us reaching the long-term group targets.

現在讓我談談我們的戰略，這是基於在移動網絡領域的領先地位以及對企業的集中擴張。在本季度，我們邁出了關鍵一步，通過引入新的集團結構來加速我們的戰略執行。在移動網絡方面，我們通過合併數字服務和託管服務推出了一個新的細分市場，即云軟件和服務。這將使我們能夠利用雲軟件和服務的融合，發展我們的核心移動基礎設施業務。當然，我們仍然非常致力於盡快扭轉該領域的業務，以支持我們實現長期的集團目標。

On the Enterprise side, we formed a new segment -- that's a new segment where we have one business area called Enterprise Wireless Solutions, which is the combination of Cradlepoint and Dedicated Networks. Cradlepoint continues to strengthen its position in the market and shows building growth in excess of 40% this past quarter. The Enterprise segment will also include the global network platform, which create -- which we believe will drive a paradigm shift in the industry. And that's because the network will be a horizontal platform whose capabilities will be exposed, consumed and paid for through global network APIs.

在企業方面，我們形成了一個新的部門——這是一個新的部門，我們有一個稱為企業無線解決方案的業務領域，它是 Cradlepoint 和專用網絡的組合。 Cradlepoint 繼續鞏固其在市場中的地位，並在上個季度顯示建築增長超過 40%。企業部門還將包括全球網絡平台，我們相信這將推動行業的範式轉變。這是因為網絡將是一個水平平台，其功能將通過全球網絡 API 公開、使用和付費。

The global developer community can therefore start to innovate on top of the network and really leverage all the capabilities of the network. This will be very important in establishing 5G as the strongest innovation platform the history has ever seen. We believe this will inspire innovation. But most importantly, it will actually give our customers, the service providers, another avenue to monetize the network investments. And here, we are working very closely with front-runner customers, and we see a very strong response from our customers supporting the introduction of the global network platform.

因此，全球開發者社區可以開始在網絡之上進行創新，並真正利用網絡的所有功能。這對於將 5G 打造為有史以來最強大的創新平台非常重要。我們相信這將激發創新。但最重要的是，它實際上將為我們的客戶、服務提供商提供另一種將網絡投資貨幣化的途徑。在這裡，我們正在與領先的客戶密切合作，我們看到客戶的強烈反應支持引入全球網絡平台。

The intended acquisition of Vonage is an important building block to execute on the global network platform, and we are working to secure approval and close the transaction before the end of July.

對 Vonage 的預期收購是在全球網絡平台上執行的重要組成部分，我們正在努力在 7 月底之前獲得批准並完成交易。

Our strategy builds on technology leadership, and we continue to invest in R&D, so we can launch new and innovative products in the future as well. Of course, this includes investments both in our Mobile Networks business as well as in Enterprise, and we will spare no resources in strengthening our position in those areas.

我們的戰略建立在技術領先地位的基礎上，我們將繼續投資於研發，因此我們也可以在未來推出新的創新產品。當然，這包括對我們的移動網絡業務和企業的投資，我們將不遺餘力地加強我們在這些領域的地位。

Now let me give the word over to our CFO, Carl Mellander.

現在讓我轉告我們的首席財務官 Carl Mellander。

Thank you, Börje. Excellent. And good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking the time.

謝謝你，博爾杰。出色的。大家早上好。感謝您抽出寶貴的時間。

And first of all, I wanted to say that this then will be the last quarter we report according to the existing current structure of segments. And from the quarter 3 report then, we will report in the new structure with the 4 segments: Networks, Cloud Software and Services, Enterprise and Other, and we will provide a restate also for -- from first quarter 2021 until second quarter '22 and also the full year 2020 in this new structure, and we will do that in September, well in time for the Q3 reports.

首先，我想說這將是我們根據現有的當前細分結構報告的最後一個季度。從第三季度報告開始，我們將在新結構中報告 4 個部分：網絡、雲軟件和服務、企業和其他，我們還將提供從 2021 年第一季度到 22 年第二季度的重述以及在這個新結構中的 2020 年全年，我們將在 9 月做到這一點，正好趕上第三季度的報告。

So if we look at the numbers then and starting with net sales. We -- the net sales amounted to SEK 62.5 billion, with organic growth in 4 out of the 5 market areas. So organic growth of 5% despite a couple of items that Börje touched on, the suspended business volume in Russia, that's SEK 1.2 billion in top line drop due to that; and also the IPR revenue, which is SEK 0.9 billion lower year-over-year.

因此，如果我們看一下當時的數字並從淨銷售額開始。我們——淨銷售額達 625 億瑞典克朗，在 5 個市場領域中有 4 個實現了有機增長。因此，儘管 Börje 涉及了一些項目，俄羅斯的業務量暫停，但有機增長 5%，因此收入下降了 12 億瑞典克朗；以及知識產權收入，同比減少 9 億瑞典克朗。

So this growth was really driven by the 5G deployment in 2 of the largest market areas we have, of course, North America growing 12%, as you saw, and Europe and Latin America growing 4% organically as well, especially driven by Europe. We continue to win market shares, not least in Europe, and now we see the fruit of that in the top line growth. So reported sales grew by 14%. And clearly, we have quite a strong FX tailwind here due to the weakened Swedish krona.

因此，這種增長實際上是由我們擁有的兩個最大市場區域的 5G 部署推動的，當然，如你所見，北美增長了 12%，歐洲和拉丁美洲也有機增長了 4%，尤其是在歐洲的推動下。我們繼續贏得市場份額，尤其是在歐洲，現在我們看到了收入增長的成果。因此，報告的銷售額增長了 14%。顯然，由於瑞典克朗疲軟，我們在這裡有相當強勁的外匯順風。

So IPR, we talked about it a bit, it was SEK 1.4 billion in the quarter, decreased by SEK 0.9 billion, as said. And it can be noted that this is in line with the guidance that we had provided in the Q1 report for Q2, when we said that we would end up between SEK 1 billion and SEK 1.5 billion in the quarter, we came out at SEK 1.4 billion. And the same guidance now, we maintain also for the third quarter. That's important to say. Of course, the actual outcome will depend on timing and terms and conditions of any new agreements.

所以知識產權，我們談了一點，本季度為 14 億瑞典克朗，減少了 9 億瑞典克朗，如前所述。值得注意的是，這與我們在第一季度報告中為第二季度提供的指導一致，當我們說我們將在本季度最終達到 10 億至 15 億瑞典克朗時，我們得出的結果是 1.4 瑞典克朗十億。現在同樣的指導，我們也維持第三季度。這很重要。當然，實際結果將取決於任何新協議的時間和條款和條件。

Gross margin then, excluding restructuring, came out at 42.2%. And I'll drill more into gross margin in a moment. So we can continue talking about the R&D expenses. Now we -- it amounted to SEK 11.5 billion, that's an increase with SEK 1 billion, of which around 40% relates to FX movements. But we have increased R&D in mainly Networks. Two areas to mention, the Ericsson Silicon, which is the next-generation ASICs, but also in Cloud RAN. And of course, the silicon piece is to enable really industry-leading radio performance energy savings, not least, and the Cloud RAN has to do with more flexible deployment options for our customers. We will continue with this increased R&D for value-creating purposes.

當時的毛利率（不包括重組）為 42.2%。稍後我將深入研究毛利率。所以我們可以繼續討論研發費用。現在我們 - 它達到 115 億瑞典克朗，增加了 10 億瑞典克朗，其中約 40% 與外匯變動有關。但我們主要在網絡方面增加了研發。有兩個領域值得一提，愛立信矽，它是下一代 ASIC，也是 Cloud RAN。當然，矽片能夠真正實現行業領先的無線電性能節能，尤其重要的是，Cloud RAN 必須為我們的客戶提供更靈活的部署選項。我們將繼續增加研發以創造價值。

SG&A also increased SEK 0.9 billion to SEK 7.9 billion. A portion of that has also to do with FX, of course. But other than that, it's related to legal and compliance costs and expenses that we have.

SG&A 也增加了 9 億瑞典克朗至 79 億瑞典克朗。當然，其中一部分也與 FX 有關。但除此之外，它還與我們擁有的法律和合規成本及開支有關。

So EBIT then, excluding restructuring charges, was SEK 7.4 billion in the quarter. That's a year-over-year improvement of SEK 1.5 billion, and that corresponds then to an EBIT margin of 11.8%. That in itself is a year-over-year improvement of 1.2 percentage points.

因此，扣除重組費用後，本季度息稅前利潤為 74 億瑞典克朗。同比增長 15 億瑞典克朗，對應的息稅前利潤率為 11.8%。這本身就是同比提高 1.2 個百分點。

And then further down the P&L, net income, I should mention also SEK 4.7 billion in the quarter versus SEK 3.9 million, as a result, of course, of the improved EBIT. And I would say despite a more negative finance net driven by FX hedge results. And then free cash flow, we drill a bit more into it in a minute, but it came out, as you see here, SEK 4.4 billion versus SEK 4.1 billion a year ago despite a significant buildup of inventory to secure deliveries to customers, as Börje outlined earlier.

然後進一步降低損益，淨收入，我還應該提到本季度的 47 億瑞典克朗，而不是 390 萬瑞典克朗，這當然是由於息稅前利潤的改善。我想說的是，儘管外匯對沖結果導致財務淨額更加負。然後是自由現金流，我們在一分鐘內對其進行了深入研究，但結果顯示為 44 億瑞典克朗，而一年前為 41 億瑞典克朗，儘管庫存大量增加以確保向客戶交付，因為Börje 前面概述了。

EBITA is the key metric now for profitability going forward, given the long-term target we have of 15% to 18%, and excluding restructuring that on a rolling 4-quarter basis, came out at 14.1%.

考慮到我們設定的 15% 至 18% 的長期目標，並且不包括在 4 個季度滾動基礎上進行的重組，EBITA 是現在衡量未來盈利能力的關鍵指標，為 14.1%。

But let's have a look at gross margin and drill into that a bit more here. And you can see, again, the more longer-term perspective on gross margin. We think this is more valuable and meaningful. And you can see now on a rolling 4-quarter basis gross margin excluding restructuring is at 43%. And basically, the improvement you see here since the beginning of 2020, this is the -- the rolling line is the blue line here, is really driven by the investments in innovation in R&D that we have done since we started in 2017. And that, of course, has enabled better product offering, better features, et cetera. This is what we continue to do as well now in the inflationary environment. So we see how this has had a positive effect on the gross margin over time, despite increasing at the same time the market share, which sometimes can have a slightly dilutive effect on margin.

但是，讓我們看一下毛利率，並在這裡深入研究一下。你可以再次看到對毛利率的更長期看法。我們認為這是更有價值和更有意義的。您現在可以看到，不包括重組的 4 個季度滾動毛利率為 43%。基本上，自 2020 年初以來，您在此處看到的改進，這裡的滾動線是藍線，實際上是由我們自 2017 年開始以來所做的研發創新投資推動的。當然，它帶來了更好的產品供應、更好的功能等等。這也是我們現在在通脹環境中繼續做的事情。因此，我們看到這如何隨著時間的推移對毛利率產生積極影響，儘管同時增加了市場份額，這有時會對利潤率產生輕微的稀釋作用。

So big reason here for the year-over-year comparison on gross margin is the IPR revenue, of course, where we had a catch-up effect in Q2 last year from IPR -- the IPR side. And this is really explaining the biggest part of the change in gross margin. Secondly, we did see increased cost for component and logistics, and that's also clear. And this proactive investments that we make in supply chain resilience in Networks, clearly, the right thing to do because we are able to deliver to customers, which you see in the top line development. And most of that impact, we are able to offset by other factors. We had a large software contract we talked about in Q1. But of course, also, and this is important, the underlying improvements in our business as well, which is a continuous aspects we work on.

毛利率同比比較的重要原因是知識產權收入，當然，我們在去年第二季度從知識產權方面獲得了追趕效應——知識產權方面。這確實解釋了毛利率變化的最大部分。其次，我們確實看到組件和物流成本增加，這也很清楚。我們在 Networks 中對供應鏈彈性進行的這種積極投資顯然是正確的做法，因為我們能夠向客戶交付產品，您可以在頂級開發中看到這一點。而大部分影響，我們能夠被其他因素抵消。我們在第一季度談到了一份大型軟件合同。但當然，這也很重要，我們業務的潛在改進也是我們不斷努力的一個方面。

So all in all, you could say we were able to absorb a lot of the cost pressure, with higher sales on the one hand, if you look at the absolute margin number. And of course, our whole strategy is to continue to improve margins every day, every month, every quarter and into the long term via product substitution and other means.

所以總而言之，如果你看一下絕對利潤率數字，你可以說我們能夠吸收很多成本壓力，一方面銷售額更高。當然，我們的整個戰略是通過產品替代和其他方式，每天、每月、每季度以及長期持續提高利潤率。

Okay. Digital Services then, gross margin came out at 39.9%, affected by initial deployment costs for some of the cloud-native 5G Core contracts that we have. We have talked about that before as well. And also here a lower share of IPR. We are encouraged, though, by -- in Digital Services by the win rate of 5G Core contracts. Managed Services then, gross margin increased by 4 percentage points to 23%. Mainly driven by 2 things: one is the network optimization business, which grew; and the other one is the variable -- so-called variable sales in Managed Services, both of which contributed to the good gross margin improvement here.

好的。數字服務當時的毛利率為 39.9%，受到我們擁有的一些雲原生 5G 核心合同的初始部署成本的影響。我們之前也討論過這個問題。而且這裡的知識產權份額較低。不過，我們受到鼓舞的是——在數字服務中，5G 核心合同的獲勝率。然後，託管服務的毛利率增長了 4 個百分點，達到 23%。主要受兩件事驅動：一是網絡優化業務，增長了；另一個是變量——託管服務中所謂的變量銷售，這兩者都有助於提高毛利率。

And on Managed Services, because this is now the last time Managed Services will be reported in this structure, at least it's a good thing to note that rolling 4-quarter EBIT margin was 9.5%. So that is within the range that we set up for 2022, 9% to 11%, basically 2 quarters ahead of plan. And as I -- as we mentioned earlier then, next quarter, we will report according to the new structure with Digital Services, Managed Services combined in segment Cloud Software and Services. And that we will follow up in a transparent way going forward as well.

在託管服務方面，因為這是最後一次以這種結構報告託管服務，至少值得注意的是，4 個季度的滾動息稅前利潤率為 9.5%。所以這在我們為 2022 年設定的範圍內，9% 到 11%，基本上比計劃提前了 2 個季度。正如我之前提到的，下個季度，我們將根據新結構進行報告，將數字服務、託管服務合併為雲軟件和服務部分。我們也將以透明的方式跟進。

Lastly then, Emerging Business and Other. Gross margin was 35.8%. Certain year-over-year decline, and that relates to Cradlepoint, but mainly accounting-wise, because last quarter 2 in 2021, we had positive one-off effect which had to do with the final PPA, purchase price allocation, from that acquisition. So in essence, in the actual business, Cradlepoint performs really well with the growth, that Börje mentioned, over 40% and a gross margin which is well above group average.

最後是新興業務和其他。毛利率為35.8%。一定的同比下降，這與 Cradlepoint 有關，但主要是會計方面的，因為在 2021 年第二季度，我們產生了積極的一次性效應，這與最終的 PPA（購買價格分配）有關，從那次收購.因此，從本質上講，在實際業務中，Cradlepoint 的增長表現非常好，Börje 提到，超過 40% 和遠高於集團平均水平的毛利率。

I will now move over to cash flow real quick before I hand back to Börje. So free cash flow before M&A, SEK 4.4 billion versus SEK 4.1 billion a year ago, mainly driven by the EBIT improvements, of course. But if we look at the working capital development, and I can tell you and repeat that we focus a lot on cash flow in Ericsson. And the fact that we were able to deliver the SEK 4.4 billion here, in spite of what we're talking about the proactive investment in supply chain, reflects, I think, very well on the team's effort here to generate cash flow.

在我交還給 Börje 之前，我現在將真正快速地轉向現金流。因此，併購前的自由現金流為 44 億瑞典克朗，而一年前為 41 億瑞典克朗，這當然主要是由於息稅前利潤的改善。但如果我們看看營運資金的發展，我可以告訴你並重複一遍，我們非常關注愛立信的現金流。儘管我們談論的是對供應鏈的積極投資，但我們能夠在這裡交付 44 億瑞典克朗的事實，我認為，這很好地反映了團隊在這裡創造現金流的努力。

And you can see that in the operating net assets here. It's a certain increase due to inventory. But to a large extent, offset but very strong customer collections as well. So as we say in the report, based on the current visibility, we expect the inventory levels to gradually reduce during the rest of the year towards the end.

您可以在這裡的運營淨資產中看到這一點。由於庫存增加了。但在很大程度上，抵消了但非常強大的客戶收藏。因此，正如我們在報告中所說，根據目前的能見度，我們預計庫存水平將在今年剩餘時間內逐漸減少。

So all in all, this leads to a solid cash position ahead of the Vonage acquisition. Gross cash now at a bit more than SEK 100 billion and net cash at SEK 70 billion. And final comment here is that when we look at free cash flow before M&A on a rolling 4-quarter basis, which I think is important, then we are hitting our long-term target. Because it comes out at a bit more than SEK 29 billion, which is 12% of net sales. And as you know, our long-term target when it comes to cash generation is 9% to 12%. We are at 12% now.

總而言之，這在 Vonage 收購之前導致了穩固的現金狀況。現在總現金略高於 1000 億瑞典克朗，淨現金為 700 億瑞典克朗。最後的評論是，當我們以滾動 4 個季度的基礎查看併購前的自由現金流時，我認為這很重要，那麼我們正在實現我們的長期目標。因為它的銷售額略高於 290 億瑞典克朗，占淨銷售額的 12%。如您所知，我們在現金生成方面的長期目標是 9% 到 12%。我們現在是 12%。

With that, I hand back to our CEO, Mr. Börje Ekholm.

有了這個，我交還給我們的首席執行官 Börje Ekholm 先生。

Thanks, Carl. Now to sum up. Then we had another quarter with solid business performance. We're able to largely offset, like Carl described, and I said in the beginning, the challenging supply situation we're facing as well as cost increases through our investments in the geo-resilient supply chain, and underlying margins improvements that actually come from product substitution as well as gradual improvements of our operations.

謝謝，卡爾。現在來總結一下。然後我們又迎來了一個業務表現穩健的季度。我們能夠在很大程度上抵消，就像卡爾描述的那樣，我在一開始就說過，我們面臨的具有挑戰性的供應形勢以及通過我們對具有地理彈性的供應鏈的投資而增加的成本，以及實際出現的潛在利潤率提高從產品替代以及我們業務的逐步改進。

And we continue to believe, as we have shown in the past, that innovation is going to be the most important way and the best way to offset inflationary pressures. But of course, we're also going to look at adjusting contract terms as they expire. We're well positioned to capture the opportunity of digitalization of the consumer, enterprises and society based on wireless connectivity as well as 5G.

而且我們仍然相信，正如我們過去所表明的那樣，創新將成為抵消通脹壓力的最重要方式和最佳方式。但是，當然，我們也會考慮在合同條款到期時對其進行調整。我們有能力抓住基於無線連接和 5G 的消費者、企業和社會數字化的機會。

5G is, by far, the fastest scaling mobile technology ever. However, global penetration is still in an early phase. Mid-band penetration remains low across the world. We foresee that global 5G build-out will be larger and actually continue for longer than previous mobile generations, with evolving new use cases for consumers, enterprises as well as governments and society at large.

到目前為止，5G 是迄今為止擴展速度最快的移動技術。然而，全球滲透仍處於早期階段。世界範圍內的中頻滲透率仍然很低。我們預計，全球 5G 建設規模將比前幾代移動設備更大，實際上持續時間更長，為消費者、企業以及政府和整個社會提供不斷發展的新用例。

We remain determined to reach our long-term target of an EBITA margin of 15% to 18% no later than 2 to 3 years, while we also establish Ericsson on a higher growth trajectory. I'm very proud to work with colleagues whose dedication and commitment actually have ensured that we can keep on delivering products to our customers in spite of the global supply challenges. So a big thank you to all of my colleagues.

我們仍然決心在不遲於 2 至 3 年內實現 15% 至 18% 的 EBITA 利潤率的長期目標，同時我們還將愛立信建立在更高的增長軌道上。我很自豪能與同事們一起工作，他們的奉獻精神和承諾實際上確保了我們能夠繼續向我們的客戶提供產品，儘管全球供應面臨挑戰。非常感謝我所有的同事。

Well, before starting with the Q&A, I would like to mention that we are planning for a Capital Markets Day on December 15. We'll come back with more details where and venue, et cetera, and lay out, but we will focus, of course, on describing our strategy as well as the opportunities for growth that we see going forward.

好吧，在開始問答之前，我想提一下，我們計劃在 12 月 15 日舉行資本市場日。我們將提供更多詳細信息，地點和地點等，並進行佈局，但我們將重點關注，當然，在描述我們的戰略以及我們看到的未來增長機會時。

But now over to you, Peter, for questions.

但現在交給你，彼得，提問。

Thanks, Börje. So I would like to call out Mark, can you inform the audience that we will start now the Q&A and how to proceed.

謝謝，博耶。所以我想叫馬克，你能告訴觀眾我們現在開始問答以及如何進行嗎？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Thank you, Mark. And we'll start with Francois Bouvignies from UBS.

謝謝你，馬克。我們將從瑞銀的 Francois Bouvignies 開始。

So I have 2 quick questions, if I may. So the first one is on inflation. I mean obviously, it's one of the main highlights for this quarter. And I just wanted to know if it's possible to quantify the impact you saw this quarter. And in the release, Börje, on your presentation, you said that you -- as contract expire, you're going to try to adjust pricing. So my understanding is that the prices are mostly fixed until the end of the year. So should we expect this drag of inflation to carry on until the end of the year? Or is there anything you can do before that? So that's my first question. And I have a quick follow-up.

如果可以的話，我有 2 個簡單的問題。所以第一個是關於通貨膨脹的。我的意思很明顯，這是本季度的主要亮點之一。我只是想知道是否可以量化您在本季度看到的影響。在發布中，Börje，在您的演示文稿中，您說您 - 隨著合同到期，您將嘗試調整定價。所以我的理解是，價格在年底之前大部分都是固定的。那麼，我們是否應該預期這種通脹拖累會持續到年底？或者在那之前有什麼可以做的嗎？所以這是我的第一個問題。我有一個快速跟進。

You can start, Börje.

你可以開始了，Börje。

Börje, should you?

Börje，你應該嗎？

I can take the latter part of that question. Well, the key for us to fight inflation, and you see -- you know the inflationary pressures, they've been very large on components as well as the whole supply chain, transportation, wages, et cetera, during the -- both first and second quarter. The key way for us to short-term combat inflationary pressures is actually by introducing or coming with product substitution. We spoke about that in the first quarter. That continues to be the key driver, because that allows us to both start to discuss the price of new features, but also to actually lower the cost of the product. And we remain very committed to that model that's been with us since 2017, and we continue to see the benefits of that.

我可以回答這個問題的後半部分。嗯，我們對抗通脹的關鍵，你知道 - 你知道通脹壓力，它們在組件以及整個供應鏈、運輸、工資等方面都非常大，在 - 兩者都首先和第二季度。我們短期應對通脹壓力的關鍵方法實際上是引入或帶來產品替代。我們在第一季度談到了這一點。這仍然是關鍵驅動因素，因為這讓我們既可以開始討論新功能的價格，也可以實際降低產品成本。我們仍然非常致力於自 2017 年以來一直存在的這種模式，我們將繼續看到這種模式的好處。

Then contracts, they typically could be 1 to 2, 3, 4 years in this industry. And so they are regularly renewed. And as they are renewed, we can adjust terms, but it's -- and I would say in between, we, of course, on service components, on certain components, we have ability to adjust. But I think our key way to adjust prices will be through product substitution and will continue to be that.

然後合同，他們通常在這個行業可能是 1 到 2、3、4 年。因此，它們會定期更新。隨著它們的更新，我們可以調整條款，但在兩者之間，我們當然可以在服務組件上，在某些組件上，我們有能力進行調整。但我認為我們調整價格的關鍵方式將是通過產品替代，並將繼續如此。

And maybe I can add when it comes to prediction of this, of course, that's going to be hard for this type of macro factors. But I think more important for us is to plan for this and to continue with the mitigation that we're doing. And I really want to emphasize again what we said initially that this is something -- not something new, we have been working at least since 2017 with exactly this strategy. We invest to innovate, to launch new products, please the customers, of course, and then price accordingly over time. So that's really our big focus here.

也許我可以補充一點，當然，對於這種宏觀因素來說，這將是困難的。但我認為對我們來說更重要的是為此做好計劃並繼續我們正在做的緩解措施。我真的想再次強調我們最初所說的，這是一些東西 - 不是什麼新東西，我們至少從 2017 年開始就一直在使用這個策略。我們投資於創新，推出新產品，當然，取悅客戶，然後隨著時間的推移相應定價。所以這真的是我們的重點。

And better to plan for a continuation of this situation, that's what we are doing in the supply chain than to assume that it will be improving very soon. But on the inventory side as such, we do say, as you see in the report that we believe that inventory will come down towards the end of the year. So that has, of course, also to do with our supply and delivery planning to customers as well.

更好地計劃這種情況的延續，這就是我們在供應鏈中所做的，而不是假設它很快就會好轉。但在庫存方面，我們確實說，正如您在報告中看到的那樣，我們相信庫存將在年底前下降。當然，這也與我們對客戶的供應和交付計劃有關。

And I would say, we should also remember the gross margin impact from IPR, that's -- we're going to make sure we get the right deal rather than optimize an individual quarter's performance. So that is a key reason why you see the gross margin drop year-over-year.

我想說，我們還應該記住知識產權對毛利率的影響，那就是——我們將確保我們得到正確的交易，而不是優化單個季度的業績。因此，這是您看到毛利率同比下降的一個關鍵原因。

Thank you. You had a follow-up as well, Francois?

謝謝你。你也有跟進，弗朗索瓦？

It's very clear. Yes, as a quick follow-up, if I may. So you mentioned, Börje, as well in the presentation that this impressive market share, 50% on the 5G traffic outside China, on the RAN side, and 80% of the top 20 operators are using your 5G Core, which obviously shows you -- that gives time to market and add more advanced products when the 5G ramped. But as we see a bit forward, do you -- and based on your deals win rate today, do you see this market share sustainable as the 5G market is growing? Or should we expect a normalization of this market share? Or do you still see the same similar market share as we move into next 1 year or so based on your other behavior?

很清楚。是的，如果可以的話，作為快速跟進。所以你提到，Börje，以及在演示文稿中這個令人印象深刻的市場份額，50% 的中國以外的 5G 流量，在 RAN 方面，前 20 名運營商中有 80% 正在使用你的 5G 核心，這顯然向你展示 - - 當 5G 普及時，這給了上市時間並添加了更先進的產品。但是，正如我們所看到的那樣，您是否 - 根據您今天的交易贏得率，您認為隨著 5G 市場的增長，這個市場份額是否可持續？還是我們應該期待這個市場份額的正常化？或者，根據您的其他行為，您是否仍會看到與我們進入未來 1 年左右相同的市場份額？

If you look on the 5G Core there, the key part that will help us improve performance is when traffic starts to pick up on the 5G networks. So that's still -- it's mostly, I would say, system integration revenues today. And there, as I believe Carl said, we have some extra costs on the initial deployment. So that is a bit living in that type of environment. So there, it depends on how traffic picks up, et cetera.

如果您查看那裡的 5G 核心，將幫助我們提高性能的關鍵部分是 5G 網絡上的流量開始回升。所以這仍然是 - 我想說的是，今天主要是系統集成收入。而且，正如我相信 Carl 所說的那樣，我們在初始部署中有一些額外的成本。所以這有點生活在那種環境中。因此，這取決於流量如何增加等等。

On the RAN side, yes, we have strengthened our market share from 33% to 39% over the past 5 years, where we believe we have a strong competitive position. So we -- our ambition is to continue to actually gain some footprint going forward because we believe long-term scale in this industry is critical. That's the way to make sure we can remain technology leader as well. So our ambition is to hold and gradually strengthen our market share as well.

在 RAN 方面，是的，在過去 5 年裡，我們的市場份額從 33% 提高到了 39%，我們相信我們在這方面擁有強大的競爭地位。所以我們——我們的目標是在未來繼續實際獲得一些足跡，因為我們相信這個行業的長期規模至關重要。這是確保我們也能保持技術領先地位的方法。因此，我們的目標是保持並逐步加強我們的市場份額。

And I can add one more to that, Börje, on market share. Of course, we talk a lot about the RAN market. And that's about USD 41.5 billion, USD 43 billion, maybe, market. But we are not only addressing that, obviously. And what we say about the 5G Core win rate is separate from that. And also now to create new growth in the company, we are focusing on the enterprise side. And for example, the Cradlepoint business comes on top of the RAN market and other things that we will do within the Enterprise space, such as the global network platform also partly is added to that market, as such. So when we talk growth, it's not only the RAN market, that's my point there.

Börje，我可以在市場份額上再增加一個。當然，我們經常談論 RAN 市場。這大約是 415 億美元，也許是 430 億美元的市場。但顯然，我們不僅要解決這個問題。而我們所說的 5G Core 勝率則與此不同。而且現在為了創造公司新的增長點，我們專注於企業方面。例如，Cradlepoint 業務位於 RAN 市場之上，而我們將在企業空間內做的其他事情，例如全球網絡平台，也部分地加入了該市場。因此，當我們談論增長時，不僅僅是 RAN 市場，這就是我的觀點。

Thanks, Carl. And thanks, Francois, for those questions. We'll move to the next question from Alex Duval, Goldman Sachs.

謝謝，卡爾。感謝弗朗索瓦提出這些問題。我們將轉到高盛的 Alex Duval 的下一個問題。

You talked about a solid 5G backdrop this year, and you've actually adopted a raised growth forecast for North America. I wondered if you could talk a little bit about how you're feeling about sustainability of RAN demand into next year. And obviously, you have a discussion about challenging macro backdrop and the consumers' disposable income, so how should we think about that?

你談到了今年的 5G 堅實背景，你實際上已經對北美採用了上調的增長預測。我想知道您是否可以談談您對明年 RAN 需求可持續性的看法。很明顯，你有一個關於挑戰宏觀背景和消費者可支配收入的討論，那麼我們應該如何考慮呢？

And then secondly, on Digital Services. It seems like you had solid organic growth, but then it also looks like there were some deployment costs involved in initial stages of 5G Core projects. So do you think those kind of costs are going to persist? Will more profitable software revenues be coming through? And overall, it would just be great to get a perspective on how you can get more margin leverage out of that business.

其次，關於數字服務。看起來你有穩健的有機增長，但看起來在 5G 核心項目的初始階段也涉及一些部署成本。那麼你認為這些成本會持續存在嗎？是否會帶來更多有利可圖的軟件收入？總體而言，了解如何從該業務中獲得更多利潤槓桿的觀點會很棒。

Yes, I can start with the first one. So if we look at the 5G market, we see, given that largely 4G has been focused on the consumer. And what we see with 5G is, structurally, we're adding both new segments, so think about the enterprises. But we're also going to add a lot of new segments like cloud gaming, XR, et cetera. All of that will drive further traffic growth in the Networks. That will mean, over time -- of course, there is an efficiency. It's not a one-to-one relationship. So let's not kid ourselves on that. But the growing traffic will need to be carried with an increasing portion of active components in the network, and that's where we are.

是的，我可以從第一個開始。因此，如果我們看看 5G 市場，我們會看到，因為 4G 主要集中在消費者身上。我們在 5G 中看到的是，在結構上，我們正在添加兩個新的細分市場，所以想想企業。但我們還將添加許多新的細分市場，如雲遊戲、XR 等。所有這些都將推動網絡流量的進一步增長。這將意味著，隨著時間的推移——當然，效率是有的。這不是一對一的關係。所以我們不要在這方面自欺欺人。但是，不斷增長的流量需要通過網絡中越來越多的活動組件來承載，這就是我們所處的位置。

So we see, from a longer-term perspective, that 5G will be both having a higher peak than any of the preceding wireless generations, but it will also last longer because it addresses so much more. Then there is, in your question, there's also a short-term element, what's going to happen rest of this year and into next year. That's in a way harder to predict because it will depend on specific investment environment that each country has, et cetera. So I think, yes, if we get into, of course, bigger recession, we know from history that telecom is much more insulated than other sectors in the industry. But predicting the exact demand on a quarter-by-quarter basis is hard.

因此，我們看到，從長期來看，5G 的峰值將比之前任何一代無線技術都更高，但它的持續時間也會更長，因為它解決的問題更多。然後，在你的問題中，還有一個短期因素，今年剩餘時間和明年會發生什麼。這在某種程度上更難預測，因為這將取決於每個國家擁有的特定投資環境等等。所以我認為，是的，當然，如果我們陷入更大的衰退，我們從歷史中知道，電信比該行業的其他部門更加絕緣。但是很難逐季度預測確切的需求。

But what I would say, though, is when we look at penetration of mid-band, for example, it's less. If we look at Europe and the U.S., it's less than 25% of sites. In Europe, it's typically less than even 15%. So it's a low penetration of 5G of, what I would say, the 5G that actually gives the user experience that matters. So penetration remains very low. And we see that the operators are now starting to build out a deeper coverage and deeper part of their 4G sites, converting them into 5G. This will -- and I know, if you look on a typical deployment, a large part of the CapEx for a wireless operator is in establishing new sites. So it's a lot of concrete, steel and fiber, et cetera.

但是，我想說的是，例如，當我們查看中頻的滲透率時，它就更少了。如果我們看看歐洲和美國，它不到 25% 的網站。在歐洲，它通常甚至低於 15%。因此，5G 的滲透率很低，我想說的是，實際上給用戶體驗帶來重要影響的 5G。所以滲透率仍然很低。我們看到運營商現在開始在其 4G 站點中建立更深的覆蓋範圍和更深的部分，將其轉換為 5G。這將 - 我知道，如果您查看典型部署，無線運營商的大部分資本支出用於建立新站點。所以它有很多混凝土、鋼和纖維等等。

We believe, over time, there is an opportunity for the wireless operators to actually lower CapEx, while the active part of the network will increase in importance. So there is a mix shift going on here where we see that our -- the market we address actually can continue to grow even though CapEx in the industry probably will start to taper off in the next few years. So we remain very -- in that sense, confident that we're going to see a long-term growing market for 5G. But then, of course, short-term fluctuations, but that should shrink through to good demand.

我們相信，隨著時間的推移，無線運營商有機會實際降低資本支出，而網絡的活躍部分將變得越來越重要。因此，這裡發生了混合轉變，我們看到我們的市場實際上可以繼續增長，儘管該行業的資本支出可能會在未來幾年開始逐漸減少。所以我們仍然非常 - 從這個意義上說，我們相信我們將看到 5G 市場的長期增長。但是，當然，短期波動，但這應該會縮小到良好的需求。

Should I take the second one there? Alex, you asked about DGS or Digital Services there. And I would maybe start on the big picture there. The customers now are moving into -- obviously, into 5G, and it's about cloud technologies, and what we call intelligent automation. And 5G Core, of course, plays such a critical part in that as well to enable, if you will, the full potential of 5G networks. That's exactly where we play. And that's where you see the 5G Core contracts coming in, and we have gained so many of them, even 80%, as we said. So that's really the big picture.

我應該在那裡拿第二個嗎？亞歷克斯，您在那裡詢問了 DGS 或數字服務。我可能會從那裡開始。現在的客戶正在進入——很明顯，進入 5G，這是關於雲技術，以及我們所說的智能自動化。當然，5G Core 在這方面也發揮著至關重要的作用，如果你願意的話，可以充分發揮 5G 網絡的潛力。這正是我們玩的地方。這就是你看到 5G 核心合同進來的地方，正如我們所說，我們已經獲得了很多，甚至 80%。所以這真的是大局。

And then now we are in implementation of those initial contracts. It takes a bit of initial cost. But of course, as soon as we -- as those networks go live and we start to -- customers start to migrate subscribers over there, we will see revenue take off. And actually, we saw strong growth of the 5G Core contracts in this quarter already. But still, there's much more to come, obviously, on that side. And that is one of the key pillars in the entire turnaround here of Digital Services going forward.

然後現在我們正在執行這些初始合同。這需要一些初始成本。但是，當然，一旦我們 - 隨著這些網絡上線並且我們開始 - 客戶開始將訂戶遷移到那裡，我們將看到收入起飛。實際上，我們已經看到本季度 5G 核心合同的強勁增長。但是，顯然，在這方面還有更多的事情要做。這是數字服務向前發展的整個轉變的關鍵支柱之一。

Thanks, Carl, and thanks, Alex. We will move to the next question, which comes from Peter Kurt Nielsen at ABG.

謝謝，卡爾，謝謝，亞歷克斯。我們將轉到下一個問題，該問題來自 ABG 的 Peter Kurt Nielsen。

Just a question, Carl, if I can stay with Digital Services. You spoke extensively at Q1 about the need to -- for improving sales execution. And as has just been highlighted, you are seeing organic growth in Q2. Is that simply, Carl, a function of a better market and the 5G Core market picking up, as you said? Or have you seen early signs of your own execution improving here? And are you sort of confident that you can improve that going forward? And to what degree do you expect the new structure and the merger with Managed Services will help you on that? Any color here would be appreciated. And perhaps if you could talk a bit about how you see -- how we should view seasonality for the second half of the year.

只是一個問題，卡爾，我是否可以留在數字服務部門。您在第一季度廣泛談論了改善銷售執行的必要性。正如剛剛強調的那樣，您會看到第二季度的有機增長。卡爾，正如你所說，這僅僅是一個更好的市場和 5G 核心市場回暖的功能嗎？或者你有沒有看到你自己的執行力在這裡得到改善的早期跡象？你有信心在未來改善這一點嗎？您認為新結構以及與託管服務的合併將在多大程度上幫助您？這裡的任何顏色都將不勝感激。也許如果你能談談你如何看待 - 我們應該如何看待下半年的季節性。

Thank you. And maybe on the first point, I mean, as we get further and further into this initial contracts, we also -- we learn and we improve and we get to the milestones in the projects, and that's then reflected in the growth we see in those contracts. And that will, of course, continue. 16 out of the 20, as you know, of the largest operators have chosen Ericsson for 5G Core, and we are in the midst of implementing those contracts now. Of course, that is going to drive revenue and profitability for the period -- for the coming periods. That's quite clear.

謝謝你。也許在第一點上，我的意思是，隨著我們越來越深入地簽訂初始合同，我們也 - 我們學習並改進，我們達到了項目的里程碑，然後反映在我們看到的增長中那些合同。當然，這將繼續下去。如您所知，在 20 家最大的運營商中，有 16 家選擇了愛立信作為 5G 核心，我們現在正在實施這些合同。當然，這將推動這一時期的收入和盈利能力——在未來的時期。這很清楚。

Then when it comes to the new structure, maybe would you like to take this one? Because of course, there we see a clear benefit in merging the Managed Services and the Digital Services part.

那麼當談到新的結構時，也許你想拿這個？因為當然，我們看到了合併託管服務和數字服務部分的明顯好處。

Yes. And the key here is, there are increasing convergence between Managed Services and Digital Services in sense of automation, orchestration of the network. And we believe we can get both -- or call it some -- there are going to be some cost synergies, clearly, and some synergies from consolidating our offerings and focusing really just having 1 solution, so to say. But we think also that's going to lead to better sales execution. It's easier to go to customers with a clear solution argument when we can offer an orchestration solution and automation solution combined with how we manage that. So we believe we are going to see both cost benefits, efficiency benefits, maybe better to call it, as well as sales execution benefits.

是的。這裡的關鍵是，在自動化和網絡編排方面，託管服務和數字服務之間的融合度越來越高。我們相信我們可以兩者兼得 - 或者稱之為 - 顯然會有一些成本協同效應，以及整合我們的產品和專注於真正只有一個解決方案的協同效應，可以這麼說。但我們也認為這將導致更好的銷售執行。當我們可以提供編排解決方案和自動化解決方案並結合我們的管理方式時，更容易以明確的解決方案參數吸引客戶。因此，我們相信我們將看到成本優勢、效率優勢（也許更好地稱呼它）以及銷售執行優勢。

Thank you, Peter Kurt. We'll move to Pontus Wachtmeister at SEB.

謝謝你，彼得·庫爾特。我們將搬到 SEB 的 Pontus Wachtmeister。

So I want the Enterprise segment, it's, of course, something you are focusing a lot on and putting a lot of kind of enthusiasm into that segment. And I never really know despite where you look, I think it's going to be a large market in just a few years' time. In your numbers, we mainly see it in the Cradlepoint, and those numbers look very good. But you are now shifting to reporting segment called down to Enterprise. Can you just tell us something about if you see any pickup outside of Cradlepoint, on Enterprise business or any leads kind of? When will that segment really start to take up? When will we see kind of fully a dedicated private networks kind of grow as a separate line item or drive absolute numbers? That's my first question.

所以我想要企業部分，當然，這是你非常關注的東西，並且對這個部分投入了很多熱情。而且我從來不知道，不管你在哪裡看，我認為這將在短短幾年內成為一個大市場。在您的數字中，我們主要在 Cradlepoint 中看到它，並且這些數字看起來非常好。但是您現在正在轉向稱為企業的報告部分。如果您在 Cradlepoint 之外看到任何關於企業業務或任何潛在客戶的提貨，您能告訴我們一些事情嗎？該細分市場何時真正開始佔據上風？我們什麼時候會看到完全專用的專用網絡作為單獨的項目或驅動絕對數量增長？這是我的第一個問題。

Yes, I can take that. It's a great question. So far, we see most of the growth, as you highlight, in Cradlepoint. We are starting to see growth in Dedicated Networks. It's from a low starting point. What we see is encouraging feedback from customers, where we're seeing a competitive solution. We still have more to do in order to really grow, call it, the presence in Dedicated Networks. It includes, for example, strengthening our go-to-market, and that's why this formation of an Enterprise Wireless Solutions business area is so important. Because what we do is we are going to leverage the go-to-market from Cradlepoint to help drive the growth of Dedicated Networks. And we believe that should start to contribute maybe not during the fall as much as we would really like to see, but into next year, we should start to see that we actually can leverage that go-to-market.

是的，我可以接受。這是一個很好的問題。到目前為止，正如您所強調的，我們在 Cradlepoint 中看到了大部分增長。我們開始看到專用網絡的增長。它的起點很低。我們看到的是來自客戶的令人鼓舞的反饋，我們看到了一個有競爭力的解決方案。為了真正發展，稱之為專用網絡的存在，我們還有更多工作要做。例如，它包括加強我們的市場推廣，這就是企業無線解決方案業務領域的形成如此重要的原因。因為我們要做的是利用 Cradlepoint 的市場推廣來幫助推動專用網絡的增長。我們認為，在秋季開始的貢獻可能不會像我們真正希望看到的那麼大，但到明年，我們應該開始看到我們實際上可以利用這種進入市場。

Because I think that's the most important part of enterprises, is that we need to build a not necessarily direct but rather an indirect multichannel go-to-market structure, and that's what we're focusing our attention on right now, while we maintain the growth rate of Cradlepoint and drive product development in Dedicated Networks. So bear with us a bit before you see the real growth take off here.

因為我認為這是企業最重要的部分，是我們需要建立一個不一定是直接的而是間接的多渠道進入市場的結構，這就是我們現在關注的重點，同時我們保持Cradlepoint 的增長率並推動專用網絡的產品開發。因此，在您看到真正的增長在這裡起飛之前，請耐心等待。

Thanks, Börje, and thanks, Pontus, for that question.

謝謝 Börje，也謝謝 Pontus 提出的這個問題。

Can I have another question or...

我可以再問一個問題或...

Yes, sure, please. I think Pontus would've cut off here. But then we'll move to...

是的，當然，請。我想 Pontus 會在這里中斷。但隨後我們將移至...

We'll come back to Pontus.

我們會回到本都。

Come back -- you can move up and see if we can take Pontus after. The next question from Stefan Slowinski, and then we'll come back to Pontus. So Stefan, please, at BNP Paribas.

回來吧——你可以上去看看我們能不能拿下本圖斯。 Stefan Slowinski 的下一個問題，然後我們將回到 Pontus。所以請斯特凡在法國巴黎銀行。

Two quick ones. Just on the supply chain side, it sounds like you have managed that well in terms of getting the actual supply even if you're seeing the inflation. But can you just confirm that you didn't have any negative impact on revenues in terms of being able to secure the supply that you needed?

兩個快的。僅在供應鏈方面，即使您看到通貨膨脹，您在獲得實際供應方面也做得很好。但是，您能否確認在確保所需供應方面對收入沒有任何負面影響？

And then the second follow-up question is just on the higher costs that you're seeing. I understand you want to push through some of those component inflation costs over time. It sounds like you also have some more costs associated with maybe moving away from just-in-time delivery, so more costs around warehousing and so on. How much of those are going to be permanent and is it material? Does it have an impact on your longer-term margin potential as you maybe change the model a little bit?

然後第二個後續問題是關於您所看到的更高成本。我了解您希望隨著時間的推移逐步降低其中一些組成部分的通貨膨脹成本。聽起來您可能還會有更多與準時交貨相關的成本，因此倉儲等方面的成本也會增加。其中有多少將是永久性的，是否重要？由於您可能會稍微更改模型，這是否會對您的長期利潤潛力產生影響？

Will you take that?

你會接受嗎？

Yes. No, we haven't seen any material or any revenue impact, actually. I think this is one of the strong points here. We're quite proud actually over how the -- our supply teams have, and the organization has handled the delivery situation in spite of these challenges. So I think customers have -- we have delivered to customers on time and on the quantities required. So that's good.

是的。不，實際上，我們沒有看到任何實質性或任何收入影響。我認為這是這裡的強項之一。實際上，我們為我們的供應團隊如何處理交付情況而感到自豪，儘管存在這些挑戰。所以我認為客戶已經 - 我們已按時按要求的數量交付給客戶。所以這很好。

When it comes to the longer-term perspective, I think we plan for what we can see right now and that is a supply chain which is more resilient, not as just in time, as you said, which were -- was more the case, say, pre-pandemic and pre this whole situation that we are in. If that would ease over time, fine, but there's nothing we plan for. I think it's better to be agile here and make sure that we put absolute priority on delivering to customers, and the rest will follow.

當談到長期的觀點時，我認為我們計劃我們現在可以看到的，這是一個更具彈性的供應鏈，而不是像你所說的那樣及時，情況更是如此比如說，在大流行之前和我們所處的整個情況之前。如果這會隨著時間的推移而緩解，那很好，但我們沒有任何計劃。我認為最好在這裡保持敏捷，並確保我們絕對優先考慮為客戶提供服務，其餘的將隨之而來。

And I would say that the higher -- I think this you're going to see in many industries, you will have higher cost of supply chain. Because we come from a supply chain that was optimized based on cost, and now it's going to have higher cost due to -- you basically have to reset global supply chains due to the geopolitical uncertainty. What we feel, though, is that we will be able to offset that with product substitution over time, i.e., continue to focus and drive and increase the cadence of introducing new solutions, leveraging the scale we have in Ericsson Silicon to drive new cost-efficient solutions that will help us basically to sustain and handle these higher costs.

而且我會說越高 - 我認為你會在許多行業中看到這一點，你的供應鏈成本就會更高。因為我們來自一個基於成本優化的供應鏈，現在由於地緣政治的不確定性，你基本上必須重新設置全球供應鏈。不過，我們認為，隨著時間的推移，我們將能夠通過產品替代來抵消這一點，即繼續專注並推動並加快推出新解決方案的節奏，利用我們在愛立信矽業的規模來推動新的成本-有效的解決方案將幫助我們基本上維持和處理這些更高的成本。

So as I see it, it's always going to be a bit fluctuations quarter-by-quarter. But over time, the trajectory we've been on, we will continue to execute on.

所以在我看來，每季度都會有一點波動。但隨著時間的推移，我們一直走的軌跡，我們將繼續執行。

Thanks. And thanks, Stefan. Next question is from Daniel Djurberg at Handelsbanken.

謝謝。謝謝，斯特凡。下一個問題來自 Handelsbanken 的 Daniel Djurberg。

And my first question would be a little bit on the cost side. And in fact, you have the Enterprise opportunity and the fixed wireless access versus broadband network, et cetera, that might prolong the 5G cycle, but all these are still quick with some uncertainty on the large volumes that will be. And given the inflationary times we see, my question is, if you will need to address your underlying OpEx base, i.e., inventories to secure your long-term margins before we see these segments really taking off?

我的第一個問題是關於成本方面的。事實上，你有企業機會和固定無線接入與寬帶網絡等，這可能會延長 5G 週期，但所有這些仍然很快，而且對大量數量存在一些不確定性。鑑於我們看到的通貨膨脹時期，我的問題是，在我們看到這些細分市場真正起飛之前，您是否需要解決潛在的運營支出基礎（即庫存）以確保您的長期利潤？

And also a question on the R&D hike you see on Silicon, for example, and Cloud RAN. Should we think of some of these investments being more of a temporary nature? Or will it more be a new base?

還有一個關於你在 Silicon 和 Cloud RAN 上看到的研發加息的問題。我們是否應該認為其中一些投資更多是暫時的？或者它會成為一個新的基地？

I mean I do believe that we see actually -- first of all, on the 5G market, I suspect many of the outside analyst firms are going to raise the size of the market. They -- I think we've seen a journey here where many of the outside analysts and industry analysts have been a bit behind the takeoff in 5G. I think that is likely to continue. And I think we actually underestimate the new type of applications we're going to see. They may not come 2022 or 2023, but they're going to come 2024, 2025, that will require densification of the 5G network to launch these new type of use cases.

我的意思是我確實相信我們確實看到了——首先，在 5G 市場上，我懷疑許多外部分析公司將擴大市場規模。他們——我認為我們在這裡看到了一段旅程，許多外部分析師和行業分析師在 5G 的起飛方面有點落後。我認為這種情況很可能會持續下去。而且我認為我們實際上低估了我們將要看到的新型應用程序。它們可能不會在 2022 年或 2023 年到來，但它們會在 2024、2025 年到來，這將需要 5G 網絡的緻密化以推出這些新型用例。

So I'm actually believing, yes, there can be always a bit fluctuations, but we see that 5G will be such a central piece of society going forward to drive digitalization that it will have to be built out longer and more dense than we've seen in the past. And that's why we're very -- we're believing in that future. We're also going to invest correspondingly. That means that as we look today, we're going to continue to invest in technology for technology leadership, and we're going to make sure that we are a technology leader. If we are -- can retain that position, we have a value proposition to our customers. So in reality, that's going to be front and center.

所以我實際上相信，是的，總會有一些波動，但我們看到 5G 將成為推動數字化的社會核心部分，它必須比我們建造得更長、更密集。過去見過。這就是為什麼我們非常 - 我們相信那個未來。我們也會進行相應的投資。這意味著，正如我們今天所看到的，我們將繼續投資於技術以實現技術領先，我們將確保我們成為技術領導者。如果我們——可以保持這一地位，我們就對我們的客戶提出了價值主張。所以在現實中，這將是前沿和中心。

Of course, if the world would come into a situation where the outlook changes, i.e., that we have to adjust, we would, of course, adjust. But what we believe is, for example, take Cloud RAN, we think that's going to be deployed going forward also in Enterprise segment. So we invest today fairly significant amount of money. And of course, we believe that the market here is going to come. It may take 2 years before it comes. But we think therefore by investing now, we'll be very well positioned when that market takes off. So we are continuing to invest for the long run.

當然，如果世界會出現前景發生變化的情況，即我們必須調整，我們當然會調整。但我們認為，例如，以 Cloud RAN 為例，我們認為這也將在企業領域部署。所以我們今天投入了相當可觀的資金。當然，我們相信這裡的市場將會到來。它可能需要2年才能到來。但我們認為，通過現在進行投資，當市場起飛時，我們將處於非常有利的位置。因此，我們將繼續進行長期投資。

At the same time, you've seen us in the past, we've been committed to achieving our targets overall. We remain committed to achieving the target. So we will adjust and run the company in that way. But rest assured that technology leadership that will feature as a prominent part. So maybe investments in Cloud RAN will taper off, but then we're going to see investments in some other area that's going to drive revenue growth. But the reason why we talk about Cloud RAN and, to some extent, Ericsson Silicon, as well is that it has cost today but we're not going to see revenues until 1 to 2 to possibly 3 years out. But that's what we invest for, and that's what we are going to continue to invest for.

同時，您過去也見過我們，我們一直致力於實現我們的總體目標。我們仍然致力於實現目標。所以我們會以這種方式調整和經營公司。但請放心，技術領先地位將成為突出的部分。因此，也許對 Cloud RAN 的投資會逐漸減少，但隨後我們將看到其他一些能夠推動收入增長的領域的投資。但我們談論 Cloud RAN 以及在某種程度上談論愛立信芯片的原因是，它今天有成本，但我們要等到 1 到 2 到可能 3 年後才能看到收入。但這就是我們投資的目的，也是我們將繼續投資的目的。

Thanks, Daniel. We'll move to the next question.

謝謝，丹尼爾。我們將轉到下一個問題。

Maybe we should add there. You made the point before, Carl, it's important to remember the growth potential in Enterprises. And sometimes we focus only on the infrastructure market. That's going to be the core of our company. It's the bulk of our company. We're going to make sure that we perform there. That's for sure. But we also see the applicability of our technology in Enterprises. And that's a segment that is going to be very large, can possibly be even larger than the infrastructure business in a few years' time.

也許我們應該在那裡添加。你之前說過，Carl，記住企業的增長潛力很重要。有時我們只關注基礎設施市場。這將是我們公司的核心。這是我們公司的大部分。我們將確保我們在那裡表演。這是肯定的。但我們也看到了我們的技術在企業中的適用性。這是一個非常大的細分市場，可能在幾年後甚至超過基礎設施業務。

So the investments we make now should be financed, of course, by our infrastructure business, and that's what you see we try to do. But the applicability will allow us also to capture the Enterprise segment going forward.

因此，我們現在所做的投資當然應該由我們的基礎設施業務提供資金，這就是你看到我們試圖做的事情。但適用性也將使我們能夠抓住未來的企業細分市場。

Thanks, Börje, and thanks, Daniel. The next question is from Andrew Gardiner from Citi.

謝謝，Börje，謝謝，丹尼爾。下一個問題來自花旗的 Andrew Gardiner。

Just another couple on sort of the inflation side, component cost inflation side. Firstly, in terms of what you're saying about the sort of investing in product and, therefore, getting a better price and gross margin, even with cost inflation, clearly, that's the strategy that has worked well for you guys over the last 5 years. I get the attention on what you're saying, it's almost like you think maybe if you can increase the cadence of product introductions to make it faster than you can -- that can help to offset some of this cost increase.

只是另一對通貨膨脹方面，組件成本通貨膨脹方面。首先，就您所說的那種投資產品而言，因此即使在成本膨脹的情況下也能獲得更好的價格和毛利率，顯然，這是過去 5 年對你們有效的策略年。我注意到你所說的，這幾乎就像你想的那樣，如果你可以增加產品介紹的節奏以使其比你更快 - 這可以幫助抵消一些成本增加。

So my first question is, do you think the operators are willing to accept that in terms of introduction of services -- sorry, solutions faster than we have done in the past? Are they willing to pay for that? Or perhaps because more and more is being driven by software, it's actually -- it is something that's quite feasible?

所以我的第一個問題是，您認為運營商是否願意在引入服務方面接受這一點——抱歉，解決方案比我們過去做得更快？他們願意為此付出代價嗎？或者也許是因為越來越多的軟件被驅動，它實際上是——這是非常可行的？

And then secondly, perhaps one for you, Carl, on the cash flow comment, where you're saying you'll work the inventory down later in the year. I suppose normally, we would expect that on sort of a 4Q budget flush in sort of deployment schedule. We've often seen that. But my question is why in a market where you're expecting further component cost inflation, if the components are available today and if they're standardized and therefore usable next year, why not buy as much as you can today at the current prices rather than wait until next year when prices are likely to rise yet again? Why not use that cash flow strength that you've got to build the inventory rather than run it down later this year?

其次，也許是給你的，卡爾，關於現金流的評論，你說你將在今年晚些時候減少庫存。我想通常情況下，我們會期望在某種部署計劃中出現 4Q 預算刷新。我們經常看到這種情況。但我的問題是，為什麼在您預計組件成本會進一步上漲的市場中，如果組件今天可用，並且它們是標準化的，因此明年可以使用，為什麼不以當前價格盡可能多地購買呢？而不是等到明年價格可能再次上漲？為什麼不使用您必須建立庫存而不是在今年晚些時候將其耗盡的現金流強度呢？

Should I take at least the second part to start with. No, but this is -- I mean this is how we think. We try to optimize for the deliveries we have, of course. And what you see in the inventory is partly what -- how you describe it, that we are investing today. And it's -- I think the most important priority here is to secure deliveries, secure the components we need to actually ship product to customers, and that is the recipe. And it means an elevated inventory level now. And we are securing as much as we can and as much as we need. We are entering into longer-term contracts with suppliers also to make sure that we get the allocation that we need from them in a scarce environment. So I think we are on to more or less what you're talking about here, and that's why you see the inventory go up.

我應該至少從第二部分開始。不，但這是 - 我的意思是這就是我們的想法。當然，我們會嘗試優化我們的交付。你在庫存中看到的部分是你如何描述它，我們今天正在投資。這是 - 我認為這裡最重要的優先事項是確保交付，確保我們實際向客戶運送產品所需的組件，這就是秘訣。這意味著現在庫存水平升高。我們正在盡可能多地保護我們的安全。我們正在與供應商簽訂長期合同，以確保我們在稀缺的環境中從他們那裡獲得我們需要的分配。所以我認為我們或多或少地談到了你在這裡所說的，這就是你看到庫存上升的原因。

Then when we look at how deliveries will go out to customers during the second half of the year, versus the inflow of components and how that will play out in inventory, we see that it's a net-net positive when it comes to the inventory level as such. But again, I mean, we're not optimizing on that really. We're optimizing on customer delivery. We think that's the real price here and that's what's going to create the growth and the resilience of our company as well.

然後，當我們查看下半年交付給客戶的方式，以及組件的流入以及庫存將如何發揮作用時，我們發現就庫存水平而言，這是一個淨正數像這樣。但是，我的意思是，我們並沒有真正對此進行優化。我們正在優化客戶交付。我們認為這是真正的價格，這也將創造我們公司的增長和彈性。

And I think on the -- what you've seen in this industry, and this is nothing new, it has a deflationary element in the price for equipment. And that's because traffic growth is exponential, right? So otherwise, there will be no money left for the operator. So that's what we have seen historically. We will continue to see that. But what's important with our product substitution is that we can actually substitute a high-cost product with lower-cost products for us to manufacture and supply. That's really where you see the product substitution.

而且我認為 - 你在這個行業看到的，這並不是什麼新鮮事，它在設備價格中具有通縮因素。那是因為流量增長是指數級的，對嗎？因此，否則，運營商將沒有錢。這就是我們在歷史上看到的。我們將繼續看到這一點。但我們的產品替代重要的是，我們實際上可以用低成本產品替代高成本產品，供我們製造和供應。這就是您真正看到產品替代的地方。

But the good thing is when you can introduce new features, then you have a new chance to discuss pricing as well. And if you introduce prices that lowers the cost for our customers, it can be energy, for example, or automation or new type of solutions of running the network, then we have a discussion about the value of the product. And that's why the whole increase in the cadence of the product can kind of help us on both the, call it, a discussion with the customer to be forward-looking and focus on the value of the features and help us lower the cost of the solution.

但好消息是，當您可以引入新功能時，您也有新的機會討論定價。如果您介紹降低客戶成本的價格，例如能源、自動化或運行網絡的新型解決方案，那麼我們將討論產品的價值。這就是為什麼產品節奏的整體增加可以幫助我們在與客戶的討論中保持前瞻性並專注於功能的價值並幫助我們降低成本解決方案。

Thanks, Börje.

謝謝，博耶。

Andrew, you mentioned also software, maybe we should add that also. That, of course, the software share of the business is increasing. And that's, of course, as Börje said, to create more value for the customer. But different margin profile. And obviously, software is not impacted by the -- those inflationary pressures. So that's another factor here to consider, a positive one. Positive factor, sorry.

Andrew，您還提到了軟件，也許我們也應該添加它。當然，該業務的軟件份額正在增加。當然，正如 Börje 所說，這就是為客戶創造更多價值。但不同的保證金配置文件。顯然，軟件不受這些通脹壓力的影響。所以這是另一個需要考慮的因素，一個積極的因素。積極因素，對不起。

And we should say this is not new, we've been doing this since 2017. So the whole, call it, improvement of gross margin really comes from this strategy. Now we have cost inflation, that's why we feel we need to increase the cadence of new products to be able to execute and continue to execute on that strategy.

我們應該說這並不新鮮，我們自 2017 年以來一直在這樣做。所以，整體而言，毛利率的提高確實來自這種策略。現在我們有成本膨脹，這就是為什麼我們覺得我們需要增加新產品的節奏才能執行並繼續執行該戰略。

Thanks, Börje. Thanks, Andrew. And it's the last question, we'll just move back to Pontus Wachtmeister at SEB to give an opportunity to ask the question that he was aiming for. So Pontus, expectations are high.

謝謝，博耶。謝謝，安德魯。這是最後一個問題，我們將回到 SEB 的 Pontus Wachtmeister，讓我們有機會提出他所針對的問題。所以Pontus，期望很高。

Sorry. Now is this -- I think it's important to talk a bit about because the IPR revenues, everybody knows about them, everybody know they are -- but they are accruing in the background. And you have a very kind of a taken multi-pronged process to arrive at an end point there. And I don't think it's very easy to follow for most participants exactly what you're doing there, because it's multiple jurisdictions and it's kind of two-pronged going for legal road forward and then also kind of negotiation road forward. But those -- I mean the gross margin is there somewhere even though we don't see it at the moment, I think, it's important. But if you can describe quickly your confidence in that process.

對不起。現在是這樣——我認為談一談很重要，因為知識產權收入，每個人都知道，每個人都知道它們是——但它們是在後台積累的。你有一個非常多管齊下的過程來到達那裡的終點。而且我認為對於大多數參與者來說，要確切地了解你在那裡所做的事情並不容易，因為它涉及多個司法管轄區，這是一種兩管齊下的法律前進道路，然後也是一種談判前進道路。但是那些 - 我的意思是毛利率在某個地方，即使我們目前看不到它，我認為這很重要。但是，如果您能快速描述您對該過程的信心。

Yes. I -- first of all, it starts with the value of the 5G patent portfolio. And if we look at third-party analysts, that have looked and tried to assess -- and this is a hard thing to do. So -- but there we come out with a very strong 5G portfolio. So that's really the basics. And we're talking about the standard essential patents here. So we come out with a very strong position there. We have also some strong implementation patents. So we feel that we have a very strong portfolio that we've invested in. And that's why we spent SEK 40 billion, SEK 45 billion per year on R&D. That is one area where it shows up, is actually the patent portfolio.

是的。我——首先，它從 5G 專利組合的價值開始。如果我們看看第三方分析師，他們已經看過並試圖評估——這是一件很難做到的事情。所以 - 但是我們推出了非常強大的 5G 產品組合。所以這才是真正的基礎。我們在這裡討論的是標準必要專利。所以我們在那裡有一個非常強大的位置。我們還擁有一些強大的實施專利。所以我們覺得我們已經投資了一個非常強大的產品組合。這就是我們每年花費 400 億瑞典克朗、450 億瑞典克朗用於研發的原因。這是它出現的一個領域，實際上是專利組合。

So we have a strong position. So now it's all about how do we create the right value here of that portfolio, how do we capture that value. That includes negotiations. It includes, as you note, some litigation as well. But we are -- we believe that we're well positioned to actually achieve some attractive outcomes in our contract renewals based on the portfolio as well as the way we execute on that. But we're going to work hard. We're not going to go into a deal fast to trade off the right value of our portfolio. So we'll work on that. We know we'll lose some gross margin in the meantime -- or lose, we delay it. It's going to come back when we close the deals. We're very certain, we will, like we have done in the past. And we continue to sign up other 5G licenses.

所以我們有很強的地位。因此，現在的重點是我們如何在該投資組合中創造正確的價值，我們如何捕捉該價值。這包括談判。正如您所指出的，它還包括一些訴訟。但是我們 - 我們相信我們已經準備好根據投資組合以及我們執行的方式在合同續簽中實際取得一些有吸引力的成果。但我們要努力工作。我們不會快速達成交易來權衡我們投資組合的正確價值。所以我們會努力的。我們知道在此期間我們會損失一些毛利率——或者損失，我們會推遲它。當我們完成交易時，它會回來。我們非常確定，我們會的，就像我們過去所做的那樣。我們繼續簽署其他 5G 許可證。

So I'm -- I have a great belief in our team's ability to execute on the strategy we're embarking on. I would say we have a great IPR team and they're working on this. I'm confident we will get there. I'm not going to predict the timing, but I'm comfortable we'll be there.

所以我 - 我非常相信我們的團隊有能力執行我們正在實施的戰略。我想說我們有一個很棒的知識產權團隊，他們正在為此努力。我有信心我們會到達那裡。我不打算預測時間，但我很高興我們會在那裡。

Thanks, Börje. Thanks, Pontus. That was the last question. But before closing the call, a last remark from your side, Börje.

謝謝，博耶。謝謝，本都。那是最後一個問題。但在結束通話之前，Börje，您的最後一句話。

Thanks, Peter, and thank you, everyone, for participating, and thank you for all the questions. It's another quarter where we have shown that we execute on our strategy to be a leader in the Mobile Infrastructure business and also start to build a focused presence in the Enterprise market. And we saw that we could, despite a very difficult environment with supply chain challenges as well as geopolitical issues, we could actually keep on growing the company. We could do that by delivering to customers, so we had growth of 5%. And we have also seen that the strategy of product substitution can help us fend off the cost increases.

謝謝彼得，謝謝大家的參與，謝謝你們提出的所有問題。這是另一個季度，我們表明我們正在執行我們的戰略，成為移動基礎設施業務的領導者，並開始在企業市場建立一個專注的存在。我們看到，儘管環境非常困難，面臨供應鏈挑戰和地緣政治問題，但我們實際上可以繼續發展公司。我們可以通過向客戶交付產品來做到這一點，因此我們實現了 5% 的增長。我們也看到，產品替代策略可以幫助我們抵禦成本上漲。

Today, we're at an EBITA margin of 14% on rolling 12 months or 4 quarters, and that's getting fairly close now to the long-term target of 15% to 18%. But we're committed to reaching the 15% to 18% within the next 2 to 3 years and, at the same time, putting Ericsson on a higher growth trajectory. So we're very excited about the future. Our technology has broad applicability, both for the mobile operator and also for enterprises as they move on to digitalize their business.

今天，我們在 12 個月或 4 個季度的滾動中的 EBITA 利潤率為 14%，現在已經非常接近 15% 至 18% 的長期目標。但我們致力於在未來 2 到 3 年內達到 15% 到 18%，同時讓愛立信走上更高的增長軌跡。所以我們對未來感到非常興奮。我們的技術具有廣泛的適用性，既適用於移動運營商，也適用於企業繼續數字化業務。

So with that, thank you very much for listening in, and I wish you a good summer.

因此，非常感謝您的收聽，祝您度過一個愉快的夏天。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Thank you.

謝謝你。