聯華電子 (UMC) 2022 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to UMCs 2022 First Quarter Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) And for your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet. Webcast replay will be available within 2 hours after the conference is finished. Please visit our website, www.umc.com, under the Investor Relations, Investors Events section.

歡迎大家參加聯華電子 2022 年第一季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）為了您的信息，這次電話會議現在正在互聯網上進行現場直播。網絡直播重播將在會議結束後 2 小時內提供。請訪問我們的網站 www.umc.com，位於投資者關係、投資者活動部分。

And now I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations at UMC. Mr. Lin, please begin.

現在我想介紹聯華電子投資者關係主管Michael Lin先生。林先生，請開始。

Thank you, and welcome to UMCs conference call for the first quarter of 2022. I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, the President of UMC and Mr. Qidong Liu, the CFO of UMC. In a moment, we will hear our CFO present the first quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMCs focus and second quarter 2022 guidance. Once our President and CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A session. UMCs quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investor Financial section.

謝謝大家，歡迎參加聯電2022年第一季度電話會議。聯電總裁王杰森先生和聯電首席財務官劉啟東先生加入了我的行列。稍後，我們將聽到我們的首席財務官介紹第一季度的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁關於解決聯電的重點和 2022 年第二季度指導的關鍵信息。一旦我們的總裁和首席財務官完成他們的發言，就會有一個問答環節。 UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的“投資者財務”部分下獲得。

During this conference, we may make forward-looking statements based on management's current expectations and beliefs. These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond the company's control. For a more detailed description of these risks and uncertainties, please refer to our recent and subsequent filings with the SEC and the ROC security authorities. During this conference, you may view our financial presentation material, which is being broadcast live through the Internet.

在本次會議期間，我們可能會根據管理層當前的預期和信念做出前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。有關這些風險和不確定性的更詳細描述，請參閱我們最近和隨後向 SEC 和 ROC 安全機構提交的文件。在本次會議期間，您可以查看我們正在通過互聯網直播的財務演示材料。

Now I would like to introduce UMCs CFO, Mr. Qidong Liu, to discuss UMCs first quarter 2022 financial results.

現在我想介紹聯電首席財務官劉啟東先生，討論聯電2022年第一季度的財務業績。

Thank you, Michael. I would like to go through the Q1 '22 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded or viewed in real time from our website.

謝謝你，邁克爾。我想瀏覽一下 Q1 '22 投資者會議演示材料，可以從我們的網站實時下載或查看。

Starting on Page 4. The first quarter of 2022, consolidated revenue was TWD 63.42 billion, with gross margin at 43.4%. The net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD 19.81 billion, and the earnings per ordinary share were TWD 1.61. And in terms of capacity utilization rate, it remains at 100% plus. And for the wafer shipment, it's 2.5 million 8-inch equivalent in Q1 of 2022.

從第 4 頁開始。2022 年第一季度，綜合收入為 634.2 億新台幣，毛利率為 43.4%。歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為198.1億新台幣，每股普通股收益為1.61新台幣。而在產能利用率方面，則保持在100%以上。對於晶圓出貨量，2022 年第一季度相當於 250 萬片 8 英寸。

For income statement on a quarterly sequential comparison basis, revenue went up by 7.3%, mainly driven by better ASP and gross margin rate is 43.4% compared to 39.1% in the previous quarter. And operating income, as a result, has reached 35.2% for operating income margin rate or a number of TWD 22.3 billion. The net income is about TWD 20 billion compared to TWD 16 billion in the previous quarter, which is about 25% quarter-over-quarter growth and the EPS is TWD 1.61 per share.

在季度環比基礎上的損益表中，收入增長了 7.3%，主要是由於更好的平均售價和毛利率為 43.4%，而上一季度為 39.1%。營業收入因此達到35.2%的營業收入利潤率或223億新台幣。淨利潤約為200億新台幣，上一季度為160億新台幣，環比增長約25%，每股收益為1.61新台幣。

In terms of year-over-year comparison, revenue grew by 35% year-over-year and operating margins grew by nearly 2x to TWD 22.3 billion, and EPS also almost doubled compared to the same period of last year. In terms of our balance sheet, revenue -- cash remained strong at TWD 172 billion, and the total equity is about TWD 300 billion. And as I mentioned, the Q1 catalysts -- one of that is the stronger or better ASP, which continue on the rise.

與去年同期相比，收入同比增長35%，營業利潤率增長近2倍至223億新台幣，每股收益也比去年同期幾乎翻了一番。在我們的資產負債表方面，收入——現金保持強勁，為 1720 億新台幣，總股本約為 3000 億新台幣。正如我所提到的，第一季度的催化劑——其中一個是更強或更好的平均售價，它繼續上升。

In terms of revenue breakdown, we see a little change on a sequential basis when U.S. represents 22% of our total revenue and Asia is 64%. And IDM and fabless ratio did not change much. Currently, IDM is about 13% of our revenue and fabless is still remaining 87%.

在收入細分方面，當美國占我們總收入的 22% 和亞洲為 64% 時，我們看到連續的一些變化。而IDM和fabless的比例變化不大。目前，IDM 約占我們收入的 13%，無晶圓廠仍佔 87%。

In terms of segment breakdown, communication still remains our largest segment of 45% revenue and the others, which including auto and industrial is about 12%, and computer and consumer are 17% and 26%, respectively.

從細分市場來看，通信仍然是我們收入最大的部分，佔收入的 45%，其他包括汽車和工業約為 12%，計算機和消費者分別為 17% 和 26%。

And revenue from different geometry, the 40-nanometer and below revenue remained steady around 38%, almost identical to the previous quarter. And we continue to see some capacity increase. For quarter 2 of 2022, we are seeing 10,000 wafer per month additional capacity, mainly in 28-nanometer coming from our Fab 12A. So that will lead to about 4% to 5% of capacity increase in the second quarter of 2022.

並且來自不同幾何的收入，40納米及以下的收入保持穩定在38%左右，與上一季度幾乎相同。我們繼續看到一些容量增加。到 2022 年第二季度，我們看到每月新增 10,000 片晶圓的產能，主要是來自我們的 Fab 12A 的 28 納米晶圓。因此，這將導致 2022 年第二季度的產能增加約 4% 至 5%。

After our announcement for the Singapore P3 expansion, our revenue -- our CapEx budget has now increased to USD3.6 billion for 2022, the majority of which is -- 90% of that is 12-inch-related.

在我們宣布新加坡 P3 擴建後，我們的收入——我們的資本支出預算現已增加到 2022 年的 36 億美元，其中大部分——其中 90% 與 12 英寸相關。

The above is the summary of UMCs results for Q1 2022. More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website.

以上是聯華電子 2022 年第一季度的業績摘要。更多詳情請參閱已發佈在我們網站上的報告。

I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Jason Wang.

我現在將把電話轉給聯電總裁 Jason Wang 先生。

Well, thank you, Qidong. Good evening, everyone. Here, I would like to share UMCs first quarter highlights. We started 2022 with a solid first quarter, as the strong wafer demand kept our fab operating at full capacity and higher average blended pricing with our overall revenue. While we have observed general end markets tapering a cyclical demand associated with COVID-19 pandemic, UMCs business continue to be well supported by structural trends that are increasing silicon content in devices and driving new applications.

好的，謝謝啟東。大家晚上好。在這裡，我想分享聯電第一季度的亮點。我們以強勁的第一季度開始了 2022 年，因為強勁的晶圓需求使我們的晶圓廠保持滿負荷運轉，並且平均混合定價與我們的整體收入相比更高。雖然我們觀察到一般終端市場逐漸減少與 COVID-19 大流行相關的周期性需求，但 UMC 的業務繼續受到結構趨勢的良好支持，這些趨勢正在增加設備中的矽含量並推動新的應用。

Specialty technologies, such as non-volatile memory, power management, RF-SOI and OLED display drivers are necessary for applications across 5G, AIoT and automotive megatrends. And our strategy to focus on leading specialty technology has been successful, which now contribute more than half of our wafer revenue. An increased number of customers are recognizing the value of our customized specialty process and forming long-term partnership with UMC.

非易失性存儲器、電源管理、RF-SOI 和 OLED 顯示驅動器等專業技術對於跨 5G、AIoT 和汽車大趨勢的應用是必不可少的。我們專注於領先專業技術的戰略取得了成功，現在占我們晶圓收入的一半以上。越來越多的客戶認識到我們定制的專業工藝的價值，並與聯華電子建立了長期合作夥伴關係。

Looking ahead, we expect the positive demand outlook will remain unchanged despite some market volatility caused by the pandemic and geopolitical issues. The expansion at our Fab 12A P5 has come online in this current quarter, which will help us meet excess 28-nanometer demand that we haven't been able to fulfill. We are also actively adding capacity at our overseas bases to support our customers' long-term growth. For our Singapore site, we recently announced a new fab to address growing 22/28-nanometer demand, has already secured multiyear supply agreements from 2024.

展望未來，儘管大流行和地緣政治問題導致市場出現一些波動，我們預計積極的需求前景將保持不變。我們 Fab 12A P5 的擴建已在本季度上線，這將幫助我們滿足我們無法滿足的過多 28 納米需求。我們還積極增加海外基地的產能，以支持客戶的長期增長。對於我們的新加坡工廠，我們最近宣布了一個新的晶圓廠，以滿足不斷增長的 22/28 納米需求，並已獲得從 2024 年開始的多年供應協議。

Meanwhile, our Japan subsidiary, USJC and DENSO have agreed to collaborate on the production of a power semiconductor at USJCs 300 millimeter fab in order to serve the growing demand in the automotive market. The collaboration demonstrates our strong commitment to supporting our customers amid constraints in the automotive value chain. As a part of the industry megatrends, the accelerating adoption of electric vehicles will serve as a growth catalyst for our automotive business. We are excited to be selected as a foundry partner for many global leading customers as we aim to expand our market share in the fast-growing automotive segment.

與此同時，我們的日本子公司 USJC 和 DENSO 已同意在 USJC 的 300 毫米晶圓廠合作生產功率半導體，以滿足汽車市場不斷增長的需求。此次合作表明了我們在汽車價值鏈受限的情況下支持客戶的堅定承諾。作為行業大趨勢的一部分，電動汽車的加速採用將成為我們汽車業務的增長催化劑。我們很高興被許多全球領先客戶選為代工合作夥伴，因為我們的目標是擴大我們在快速增長的汽車領域的市場份額。

Next, I will also like to take a few minutes to share our view on the industry's outlook and where we see UMCs position in the industry going forward. I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate that UMCs growth strategy is aligned with the industry's megatrend. As a leading specialty technology provider, our customized and highly-differentiated solutions across 8-inch and 12-inch will minimize UMCs exposure to market seasonal fluctuations. The specialty technology will enhance customer stickiness [on plowing] our long-term business visibility. In addition, the LTAs demonstrate our customers' long-term commitment and endorsement in collaborating with UMC, giving us the confidence to expand our capacity and grow cohesively with our customers and remain resilient during the industry downturn.

接下來，我還想花幾分鐘分享我們對行業前景的看法，以及我們對聯電在行業中的未來地位的看法。我想藉此機會重申，聯華電子的增長戰略與行業大趨勢是一致的。作為領先的專業技術供應商，我們針對 8 英寸和 12 英寸的定制化和高度差異化解決方案將最大限度地減少聯華電子受到市場季節性波動的影響。專業技術將提高客戶粘性[對耕作]我們的長期業務知名度。此外，長期協議體現了客戶對與聯華電子合作的長期承諾和認可，讓我們有信心擴大產能，與客戶共同成長，並在行業低迷時期保持彈性。

As for 28-nanometer, we always align with the customer on 22/28-nanometer new capacity expansion. With the P6 ramp in 2023, the demand/supply balance will depend on the lead time of the 2 and equipment delivery. In light of a recent equipment delay, supply chain disruption, the impact on plowing 28-nanometer capacity coming on stream still remain to be seen. We believe 22/28-nanometer will be a long-lasting node driven by applications such as WiFi 6E, networking and OLED driver IC. We are well positioned with a diversified product portfolio to capture these market opportunities.

對於28納米，我們始終與客戶保持一致，進行22/28納米的新產能擴張。隨著 2023 年 P6 的升溫，供需平衡將取決於 2 的交貨時間和設備交付。鑑於最近的設備延遲、供應鏈中斷，對即將投產的 28 納米產能的影響仍有待觀察。我們相信 22/28 納米將是一個由 WiFi 6E、網絡和 OLED 驅動 IC 等應用驅動的持久節點。我們擁有多元化的產品組合來把握這些市場機會。

Now let's move on to the second quarter 2022 guidance. Our wafer shipment will increase by 4% to 5%. ASP in U.S. dollar will increase by 3% to 4%. Gross profit margin will be approximately 45%. Capacity utilization rate will be at 100%. Our 2022 cash base CapEx will be budgeted at USD3.6 billion.

現在讓我們繼續討論 2022 年第二季度的指導。我們的晶圓出貨量將增加 4% 至 5%。以美元計算的 ASP 將增加 3% 至 4%。毛利率約為45%。產能利用率將達到100%。我們 2022 年現金基礎資本支出的預算為 36 億美元。

That concludes my comments. Thank you all for your attention. Now we are ready for questions.

我的評論到此結束。謝謝大家的關注。現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions) And our first question is coming from Randy Abrams, Credit Suisse.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams。

I wanted to ask the first question just about the environment. I wanted to see first, from the China COVID lockdowns, if you've seen any market impact on orders, either from the factory shutdowns or consumption impact. And I'm curious within your application mix, if you've seen cancellation or slowing in certain applications and then shift to other applications and if you're still in a position of unfulfilled demand or you see some applications still with demand, you need to get capacity to meet.

我想問關於環境的第一個問題。我想先看看，從中國 COVID 的封鎖中，你是否看到了對訂單的任何市場影響，無論是工廠關閉還是消費影響。我很好奇你的應用組合，如果你看到某些應用被取消或放緩，然後轉向其他應用，如果你仍然處於未滿足需求的位置，或者你看到一些應用仍然有需求，你需要獲得滿足的能力。

Okay. Well, I mean, the China lockdown certainly have some effect to the market demand. But over all the year, strong demand for auto, industrial, server and networking segments have offset the softness in the smartphone and notebook and the PC to some of the market risk in the -- under the China lockdown. For the overall 2022, it still remains a challenge for us to meet the aggregate demand from our customers. So near term, whether it's demand or inventory fluctuation among the selected customer has not impacted UMC demand/supply imbalance situation.

好的。嗯，我的意思是，中國的封鎖肯定會對市場需求產生一些影響。但全年來看，汽車、工業、服務器和網絡領域的強勁需求抵消了智能手機、筆記本電腦和個人電腦的疲軟對中國封鎖下的一些市場風險的影響。對於整個 2022 年，滿足客戶的總需求對我們來說仍然是一個挑戰。所以短期內，無論是選定客戶的需求或庫存波動，都沒有影響聯電供需失衡的情況。

Okay. And I wanted to ask on the CapEx increase. It sounds like tied to Singapore, but that sounds a few years out. If -- are you having to prepay to secure tools quite early? And given the bottlenecks, if you could give an update on timing of when you're bringing up some of the capacity, like the additional phase in Tainan next year, that's still ramping up and how much is ramping up middle of next year?

好的。我想問一下資本支出的增加。這聽起來像是與新加坡有關，但這聽起來要過幾年了。如果——您是否必須很早就為安全工具預付費用？考慮到瓶頸，如果你能提供一些時間的更新，比如明年台南的附加階段，那仍然在增加，明年年中增加多少？

Well, first, for this year, the P5 has come online this quarter, as we mentioned earlier. For the next phase is our Tainan P6 ramp. Given the challenge in the supply chain, including component and labor shortage, we have encountered the industry by equipment delivery delay. We're currently working diligently with the supplier to identify some of the critical tools and to shuffle the (inaudible) and minimize the delay. Furthermore, we actually will shuffle internally our 2 installation and qualification schedules. So the bottom line is the goal is through those efforts, we will ensure our LTA commitment to the P6 customer in 2023 remains unchanged.

嗯，首先，正如我們之前提到的，今年，P5 在本季度上線。下一階段是我們的台南 P6 坡道。鑑於供應鏈面臨的挑戰，包括零部件和勞動力短缺，我們遇到了設備交付延遲的行業。我們目前正在與供應商密切合作，以確定一些關鍵工具，並改組（聽不清）並儘量減少延遲。此外，我們實際上將在內部調整我們的 2 個安裝和資格認證時間表。所以底線是目標是通過這些努力，我們將確保我們在 2023 年對 P6 客戶的長期協議承諾保持不變。

Okay. And if I could just clarify again, so the CapEx raise, what was the factor already to have that increase for the new fab? And you mentioned securing LTA. Does that imply you still expect, even with the way that some of that capacity should ramp second half next year?

好的。如果我可以再次澄清一下，那麼資本支出增加，新工廠已經增加的因素是什麼？你提到了保護 LTA。這是否意味著您仍然期望，即使明年下半年部分產能應該會增加？

Well, I mean, we're managing the P6 ramp, but we will be experiencing some delays. We are aligning that with our base capacity to ensure the customer's commitment to be met. So there are sound dynamics, but we have to continue working that with both supplier and the customer.

好吧，我的意思是，我們正在管理 P6 坡道，但我們會遇到一些延誤。我們正在將其與我們的基本能力保持一致，以確保滿足客戶的承諾。所以有良好的動力，但我們必須繼續與供應商和客戶合作。

And the increase in CapEx guidance, cash-based CapEx for 2022 is mainly for the share of construction for 12i P3 in Singapore.

而資本支出指引的增加，2022 年以現金為基礎的資本支出主要用於新加坡 12i P3 的建設份額。

Okay. And, Qidong, for the overall CapEx framework, is there a rough way to think about next year and the depreciation where you've had a nice tailwind based on the new cash payment schedule? How do you see depreciation this year?

好的。而且，啟東，對於整個資本支出框架，是否有一種粗略的方式來考慮明年的折舊以及根據新的現金支付時間表您有很好的順風的折舊？您如何看待今年的貶值？

Similar to that of last year. However, the next year depreciation expense is likely to rise in a more meaningful way. But we will disclose the numbers later this year. But overall, both P3 and P6 are increasing our -- not only absolute profit, but also the EBITDA margin. So there will be some short-term accounting depreciation impact in 2023, but it will quickly go back to a normal range.

與去年類似。但是，明年的折舊費用可能會以更有意義的方式增加。但我們將在今年晚些時候公佈這些數字。但總體而言，P3 和 P6 都在增加我們的——不僅是絕對利潤，還有 EBITDA 利潤率。所以2023年會有一些短期的會計折舊影響，但會很快回到正常區間。

Okay. And one final question. The LTA, I think last quarter, you mentioned TWD 18 billion for the baseline capacity, I just wanted to inquire a little more the down -- you mentioned in the prepared remarks, downturn resilience. If there were a sharp correction, just how much flexibility -- like, if you're given on shipments for them to push out if they don't have the demand, and then how fixed is the pricing in the downturn? Like have you kind of secured for baseline fixed pricing? Or if you could clarify a little more on the way to think about the LTA in a downturn scenario.

好的。最後一個問題。 LTA，我想上個季度，你提到了 180 億新台幣的基準產能，我只是想多問一點——你在準備好的評論中提到，低迷的彈性。如果有大幅調整，那麼靈活性有多大——比如，如果他們沒有需求，你可以發貨，讓他們推出，然後在低迷時期定價有多固定？就像你有沒有為基線固定定價提供保障？或者，如果您可以進一步澄清一下在低迷情況下考慮長期協議的方式。

Sure. Well, I mean, in general, the [back] on the LTA is to serve the long-term compelling benefit for both customer and UMC. So while we both parties focus on the targeted market to pursue business growth, UMC, along with our customers, share the contractual obligations set forth in the agreement. Given those obligations, both parties have considered the scenarios and factored in all the financial risks outlined in the LTA along with the market fluctuation. So the [conditions] set forth on both parties in the LTA will not be deviated regardless of market dynamics.

當然。嗯，我的意思是，總的來說，LTA 的 [back] 是為了為客戶和 UMC 提供長期的、令人信服的利益。因此，雖然我們雙方都專注於目標市場以追求業務增長，但聯華電子與我們的客戶共同承擔協議中規定的合同義務。鑑於這些義務，雙方已經考慮了各種情景，並考慮了長期協議中列出的所有金融風險以及市場波動。因此，無論市場動態如何，LTA中對雙方規定的[條件]都不會偏離。

Okay. It won't be deviated. And it sounds like you do expect quantity and pricing then. There's some commitments on those -- in those obligations.

好的。不會偏離。聽起來你確實期望數量和價格。在這些義務中有一些承諾。

Absolutely. There is a commitment on both volume and pricing, yes.

絕對地。對數量和價格都有承諾，是的。

And next, we'll have Brett Simpson of Arete Research for questions.

接下來，我們將請 Arete Research 的 Brett Simpson 提問。

I wanted to just follow up on Randy's question about LTAs. I think you mentioned TWD 18 billion last quarter. Did UMC sign any new LTAs this quarter? And if so, where is the cumulative LTA amount today? And what's the prospect for signing new LTAs throughout this year? Or is the vast majority of these deals kind of in the rearview mirror now?

我只想跟進蘭迪關於長期協議的問題。我想你上個季度提到了 180 億新台幣。聯華電子本季度是否簽署了任何新的長期協議？如果是這樣，今天的累積 LTA 金額在哪裡？今年全年簽署新長期協議的前景如何？還是這些交易中的絕大多數現在都在後視鏡中？

Well, LTA is a mechanism to give us the longer-term visibility. And so, yes, the LTA is a mechanism we'll continue to deploy throughout this year. And in fact, we -- actually, there is multiple LTAs still under discussion currently. We do see this LTA serve us, as I mentioned, as a long term for compelling benefit for both customers and ourselves. So we'll continue to deploy that, yes. And there's still some ongoing ones, and we expect that number will continue going up. And in fact, the DENSO announcement we just did actually is part of the LTA as well.

好吧，LTA 是一種讓我們獲得長期可見性的機制。因此，是的，LTA 是我們今年將繼續部署的一種機制。事實上，我們 - 實際上，目前仍在討論多個長期協議。正如我所提到的，我們確實看到這個長期協議為我們服務，為客戶和我們自己帶來令人信服的長期利益。所以我們將繼續部署它，是的。還有一些正在進行中，我們預計這個數字將繼續上升。事實上，我們剛剛發布的 DENSO 公告實際上也是 LTA 的一部分。

Okay. That's helpful. And maybe just as a second question, I guess, we've seen a sharp increase in your gross margins over the last couple of years. And I understand LTAs give you protection around the cycle, around market changes and market conditions. But can you share with us your thinking about how gross margins trend through the cycle for UMC? If we look at the sort of puts and takes of the cycle, where would you expect gross margins to sort of settle in long-term for UMC, given all the dynamics we've seen of late?

好的。這很有幫助。我想，也許只是第二個問題，我們已經看到你的毛利率在過去幾年裡急劇增加。而且我了解長期協議為您提供圍繞週期、市場變化和市場條件的保護。但是您能否與我們分享您對聯華電子在整個週期中的毛利率趨勢的看法？如果我們看一下週期的看跌期權，考慮到我們最近看到的所有動態，您認為聯電的毛利率會長期穩定在哪裡？

Well, I really -- maybe Qidong can comment that. But if I can give you a bit of a background on this, the way we look at this gross margin in the long term, is the way that we -- throughout these past few years, we have transformed the company to resilient and it's well positioned to weather through the market fluctuation through a few things. One is the CapEx strategy via a stringent ROI-driven criteria, and backed with the customer's LTA commitment. The second is we have continued to closely collaborate with the global leading customers to help optimize our client portfolio.

嗯，我真的- 也許啟東可以評論一下。但如果我能給你一些背景知識，從長遠來看，我們看待這個毛利率的方式，就是我們——在過去的幾年裡，我們已經將公司轉變為有彈性的，而且很好定位通過幾件事來度過市場波動。一種是通過嚴格的 ROI 驅動標準的資本支出戰略，並以客戶的長期協議承諾為後盾。二是我們繼續與全球領先客戶密切合作，幫助優化我們的客戶組合。

And third is we continue to grow our specialty technology business, which contains higher differentiation and customize the process solution, which then will provide a longer visibility and stickiness. And fourth, the company will have more room to grow EBITDA margin via product mix refinement. And the last is the company is healthier financially now, the structure that includes a much improved breakeven point. All this, I think, will contribute to allow UMC to weather through the semiconductor cyclicality. So that means the margin will stay at a healthy level. And that's on a higher level, how we manage this margin going forward, yes.

第三是我們繼續發展我們的專業技術業務，其中包含更高的差異化和定制流程解決方案，這將提供更長的知名度和粘性。第四，公司將有更多空間通過產品組合細化來提高 EBITDA 利潤率。最後一點是公司現在的財務狀況更加健康，其結構包括一個大大改善的盈虧平衡點。我認為，所有這一切都將有助於聯電度過半導體的周期性。因此，這意味著利潤率將保持在健康水平。這是在更高的層次上，我們如何管理這個利潤，是的。

Next question is from Bruce Lu, of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的 Bruce Lu。

Congratulations for the great results. I want to ask like for the -- moving to the second quarter, I mean, the gross margin is guiding for 45%, which is up from like 40% last year comparing the guidance to guidance. And even if we exclude the ForEx impact, you still see a major -- massive margin improvement. But the only differences between [second] quarter and the first quarter is P5, which is mostly 28-nanometer. Can we assume that your 28-nanometer profitability is already higher than the corporate average?

祝賀偉大的結果。我想問一下 - 移到第二季度，我的意思是，毛利率指導為 45%，高於去年的指導與指導相比的 40%。即使我們排除了外匯影響，你仍然會看到一個重大的——巨大的利潤率提高。但是 [第二] 季度和第一季度之間的唯一區別是 P5，它主要是 28 納米。我們可以假設您的 28 納米盈利能力已經高於公司平均水平嗎？

No, I think 28-nanometer margin is in line with our 12-inch operation. And that's from an accounting statement point of view. Of course, EBITDA margin, [Tainan] may have the best EBITDA margin internally. And I have to emphasize that Q1 guidance of 40% is somewhat lifted by this unexpected weaker NT. And for quarter 2, we are already factoring this weaker NT scenario. And there are certain headwinds in quarter 2 as well, mainly coming from rising raw material costs and the increased labor costs, which are pretty much evened out by this better ASP factor in the second quarter. So 45%, roughly, gross margin is the best estimate we can see for now for second quarter.

不，我認為 28 納米的餘量與我們的 12 英寸操作一致。這是從會計報表的角度來看的。當然，EBITDA 利潤率，[台南] 可能是內部最好的 EBITDA 利潤率。而且我必須強調，這一出乎意料的疲軟 NT 在一定程度上提升了第一季度 40% 的指導。對於第 2 季度，我們已經考慮到這種較弱的 NT 情景。第二季度也存在一定的不利因素，主要來自原材料成本上漲和勞動力成本增加，第二季度這一更好的平均售價因素幾乎抵消了這些因素。因此，大約 45% 的毛利率是我們目前能看到的第二季度的最佳估計。

I think the next question is that the investor concern is mostly the end demand deterioration. Jason, can you provide us like how much of your business right now is pretty much like single source (inaudible) or like customized process? What is the revenue contribution from those business, which is more difficult to smooth away even when you see the downcycle?

我認為下一個問題是投資者關注的主要是終端需求惡化。 Jason，您能否向我們介紹一下您現在的業務有多少類似於單一來源（聽不清）或自定義流程？這些業務的收入貢獻是什麼，即使您看到下行週期也更難以消除？

All right. So well, let me put it this way. For the -- for our overall product mix, the specialty technology considers a single source and customized product that's probably representing more than 50% of our current revenue now. And that is continued increase, at the current quarter, with about over 50%. And the -- from the LTA arrangement for the 28-nanometer, particularly, the coverage is about 80%, okay? And the -- in addition to those, from the non-specialty technology, as a single source, that also has a good percentage of that in there. So net-net, I would say, we have about 65% we consider as a single source and specialty technology. So that will probably give you some ideas. And in addition to that, we also have -- over that, LTA coverage.

好的。好吧，讓我這樣說。對於我們的整體產品組合，專業技術考慮單一來源和定制產品，現在可能占我們當前收入的 50% 以上。在本季度，這是持續增長，大約超過 50%。並且——從 28 納米的 LTA 安排來看，特別是覆蓋率約為 80%，好嗎？而且 - 除了那些來自非專業技術的單一來源之外，其中也有很大比例。所以 net-net，我想說，我們有大約 65% 我們認為是單一來源和專業技術。所以這可能會給你一些想法。除此之外，我們還有 - 在此之上，LTA 覆蓋範圍。

Do you have a target for 2 years?

你有2年的目標嗎？

I think the number will continue to increase. Our specialty technology and the customer engagement momentum remains strong and robust. I think the number will continue to rise. And while we continue that progress, we can update that on an ongoing basis.

我認為這個數字會繼續增加。我們的專業技術和客戶參與勢頭保持強勁和強勁。我認為這個數字會繼續上升。在我們繼續取得進展的同時，我們可以不斷更新。

I see. I think I want to squeeze one question for the R&D expenses, which is below 5% -- 5% of the revenue in first quarter already. Is that a new norm for the UMC? I think we discussed this 2 or 3 years ago, but now it's getting to the level of 5%. Is that a new norm for UMC moving forward?

我懂了。我想我想對研發費用提出一個問題，它已經低於第一季度收入的 5% - 5%。這是聯華電子的新規範嗎？我想我們在 2 或 3 年前討論過這個問題，但現在已經達到 5% 的水平。這是聯電前進的新常態嗎？

Given the current near-term projection, we will stay in a similar level, while our revenue continue to grow. And meanwhile, we'll continue developing in a different -- various technology in the specialty area. But I think we'll still be within that ballpark, yes.

鑑於目前的近期預測，我們將保持在相似的水平，而我們的收入將繼續增長。同時，我們將繼續在專業領域開發不同的技術。但我認為我們仍然會在那個範圍內，是的。

Next one, Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

下一位，陳查理，摩根士丹利。

So my first question is about the -- your LTA or contract with customers. Because right now, you see that some consumer or PC, smartphone customer, their inventory keeps going higher. So would you allow customers to trim or cut some forecast even if they have some contract with you?

所以我的第一個問題是關於你的長期協議或與客戶的合同。因為現在，你看到一些消費者或個人電腦、智能手機客戶，他們的庫存不斷增加。那麼，即使客戶與您簽訂了一些合同，您是否會允許他們削減或削減一些預測？

Well, I mean, the customer forecast changes, but the contractual obligation stays. We sort of touched that earlier, the conditions set forth in the LTA will not deviate, regardless of the market dynamics.

好吧，我的意思是，客戶預測發生了變化，但合同義務仍然存在。我們早些時候曾觸及到，無論市場動態如何，LTA 中規定的條件都不會偏離。

Yes. So that is my concern, right, because you want the customer to keep that obligation and their inventory keeps going higher. But the problem is that those inventory cannot really step through to the end market, given the market situation.

是的。所以這是我的擔憂，對，因為您希望客戶履行這一義務，並且他們的庫存不斷增加。但問題是，鑑於市場情況，這些庫存無法真正進入終端市場。

That's not entirely correct. So if a customer is taking a position to reduce the loading, as long as they fulfill their contractual financial obligation, that is another alternative.

這並不完全正確。因此，如果客戶打算減少負載，只要他們履行合同財務義務，這是另一種選擇。

Yes. But if there is any kind of penalty, would that force customers to keep producing?

是的。但如果有任何懲罰，那會迫使客戶繼續生產嗎？

Well, there are certainly some contractual obligation financially. So -- and I -- it's our belief, both parties have considered those scenario while we enter into that agreement.

好吧，在財務上肯定有一些合同義務。所以 - 我 - 我們相信，雙方在我們簽訂該協議時都考慮了這些情況。

Okay. Okay. And also, I kind of agree that some subsegments are still pretty robust, like automotive, networking, cloud, as you mentioned. But I think that UMCs real revenue exposure to those so-called resilient segments is quite low, right? I don't think that the aggregate exceeds that 20% of revenue. Would you agree with that?

好的。好的。而且，我有點同意，正如你提到的，一些細分市場仍然非常強大，比如汽車、網絡、雲。但我認為聯電在那些所謂的彈性細分市場中的實際收入敞口相當低，對吧？我認為總數不會超過收入的 20%。你同意嗎？

I didn't catch the last statement, again. I'm sorry.

我又沒聽懂最後一句話。對不起。

Yes. So those exposure to automotive, networking, cloud together, your revenue exposure shouldn't be more than 20% in my understanding. Is that right?

是的。因此，在我的理解中，那些對汽車、網絡、雲計算的敞口，您的收入敞口不應超過 20%。是對的嗎？

No. It's actually higher than 20%. I will say we will -- probably 1/3 of that is already within the automotive, industrial, and there's -- the other area, even within the PC, networking, the way that we category that, the part of that is actually belong to networking, which has a much stronger demand. So -- because if you go into each subcategory, including a PC notebook and then you have to segregate by different applications again, and so they are some of the strongest segments on the sub category. This is some of the weaker one. So the exposure wasn't exactly on a very higher service level, yes.

不，它實際上高於 20%。我會說我們將 - 可能其中 1/3 已經在汽車、工業領域，而且還有 - 另一個領域，甚至在 PC、網絡、我們分類的方式，其中的一部分實際上屬於網絡，它有更強烈的需求。所以 - 因為如果你進入每個子類別，包括 PC 筆記本，然後你必須再次按不同的應用程序進行隔離，所以它們是子類別中最強的部分。這是一些較弱的。所以曝光並不完全是在一個非常高的服務水平上，是的。

Okay. So yes, so that's a data very, very helpful. I think all of those try to get a sense, first of all, your current fab utilization or next quarter fab utilization would really reflect the consumer tech inventory correction. And whether UMC has sufficient backlog from industrial, automotive and networking to offset that business. And I think those are really pretty helpful.

好的。所以是的，這是一個非常非常有用的數據。我認為所有這些都試圖了解，首先，您當前的晶圓廠利用率或下個季度的晶圓廠利用率將真正反映消費者技術庫存的修正。以及聯電是否有足夠的工業、汽車和網絡積壓來抵消該業務。我認為這些真的很有幫助。

So maybe I can give you another example, for instance, on the smartphone space. We're more exposed to the 5G phone in the OLED space on a high voltage. This is the TDDI because we don't do much of the TDDI in the smartphone area. But we do quite a bit of automotive in the TDDI display. [TDDI] with high voltage, there's a mix of applications within there. So the mix is quite different, yes.

所以也許我可以給你舉另一個例子，例如，在智能手機領域。我們更多地接觸到高壓 OLED 空間中的 5G 手機。這是 TDDI，因為我們在智能手機領域沒有做太多的 TDDI。但是我們在 TDDI 顯示器上做了很多汽車方面的工作。 [TDDI] 具有高電壓，其中有多種應用。所以混合是完全不同的，是的。

Yes, and lastly, is there any concern that, given you have the LTA is like 2 ways, right, you have to deliver customers who need to stick with the order for P6, right, if there is any kind of schedule delay, would you need to pay a penalty to your customer?

是的，最後，有沒有擔心，鑑於你有 LTA 就像 2 種方式，對，你必須交付需要堅持 P6 訂單的客戶，對，如果有任何形式的時間表延遲，會您需要向您的客戶支付罰款嗎？

Well, again, there is mutual contractual obligations. And so we both calculated that, and we have considered all the scenario and factored into that. So at this point, our -- from UMCs perspective, our goal is to ensure our commitment to be met.

好吧，再一次，有相互的合同義務。所以我們都計算過了，我們已經考慮了所有的情況並考慮到了這一點。所以在這一點上，我們 - 從 UMC 的角度來看，我們的目標是確保我們的承諾得到兌現。

I see. I see. So you want to put the customers' demand as the first priority, right? And -- okay. I get that. In which tool you're seeing the biggest shortage, I mean, the bottleneck for entire production line?

我懂了。我懂了。所以你要把客戶的需求放在第一位，對吧？而且——好吧。我明白了。我的意思是，整個生產線的瓶頸是哪個工具最大的短缺？

Well, that's quite a bit of detail there. (inaudible)

嗯，那裡有很多細節。 （聽不清）

Next question, Gokul Hariharan, J.P. Morgan.

下一個問題，摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

First of all, on LTA, Jason or Qidong, could you remind us how much of your 12-inch capacity and 8-inch capacity is now covered by LTA? I guess, Phase 5 and Phase 6 -- P5 and P6 will probably be 100% covered, but for the existing capacity, could we have a reminder on how much is covered by LTA?

首先，關於LTA，Jason 或啟東，您能否提醒我們，您的12 英寸容量和8 英寸容量現在有多少被LTA 覆蓋？我猜，第 5 階段和第 6 階段——P5 和 P6 可能會 100% 覆蓋，但對於現有容量，我們能否提醒一下 LTA 覆蓋了多少？

We don't break down by 12-inch and 8-inch. But obviously, all the newly built capacity or the new capacity coming on stream, as we mentioned, P6 in Tainan and P3 in Singapore, are all covered by multiyear LTAs. So all the new capacity, 100%. And the new DENSO project is covered by LTA. And I think the overall ratio, I think, as Jason mentioned, the overall business covered by LTA is close to 30%, 40%.

我們不會按 12 英寸和 8 英寸來劃分。但顯然，所有新建或投產的新產能，如我們所說，台南的 P6 和新加坡的 P3，都包含在多年 LTA 中。所以所有的新容量，100%。 LTA 涵蓋了新的 DENSO 項目。而且我認為總體比例，我認為，正如 Jason 所說，LTA 覆蓋的整體業務接近 30%、40%。

Understood. So let me ask -- I think you mentioned that you saw some demand weakness in some of the cyclical areas related to pandemic shutdown or lockdown, et cetera. Could you talk a little bit about what are the customer conversations you're having in these areas? Is your backlog reducing as a result? Is there still a lot of nonsupported demand for these segments that you still can't fulfill? Is that nonsupported demand coming down? Just wanted to understand what are the dynamics that are happening between you and the customers, given some of this end demand weakness?

明白了。所以讓我問一下——我想你提到你在一些與大流行關閉或鎖定等相關的周期性領域看到了一些需求疲軟。您能否談談您在這些領域進行的客戶對話？結果是您的積壓工作減少了嗎？這些細分市場是否還有很多不受支持的需求，您仍然無法滿足？不受支持的需求會下降嗎？只是想了解您和客戶之間發生的動態是什麼，考慮到一些最終需求的弱點？

Well, in general, we remain challenged for us to meet the aggregated demands from our customers. So we're still severely undersupplied to our customers. But mainly, if you break it down by different segments, the PC notebook and the smartphone area has shown some of the softness, while the automotive and industrial, server, networking are still escalating with the shortage. So I think the -- at this point, I feel the demand remains at fairly high level to us -- okay, for us.

好吧，總的來說，我們仍然面臨著滿足客戶綜合需求的挑戰。因此，我們對客戶的供應仍然嚴重不足。但主要是，如果按細分市場細分，PC筆記本和智能手機領域出現了一些疲軟，而汽車和工業、服務器、網絡仍然在升級，供不應求。所以我認為——在這一點上，我覺得對我們的需求仍然處於相當高的水平——好吧，對我們來說。

And the conversation with some of the customers is we are diligently mitigate or modulating some of the soft area, hopefully, that given the higher inventory or the softer demand, if we can modulate those capacity to support those on the severe shortage segment. So that is ongoing process and effort's on that.

與一些客戶的對話是，我們正在努力減輕或調整一些軟區域，希望考慮到更高的庫存或更軟的需求，如果我們可以調整這些能力以支持那些嚴重短缺的部分。所以這是正在進行的過程和努力。

Okay. Understood. The second -- the last question is on your 2Q wafer price increase. I think you talked about roughly 3% to 4% increase in wafer ASP on a U.S. dollar basis. Is that primarily coming from your increased 28-nanometer mix? Or are you still seeing wafer price increases to customers, given the unfulfilled demand?

好的。明白了。第二個——最後一個問題是關於你們的第二季度晶圓價格上漲。我想你談到了以美元計算的晶圓平均售價大約增加 3% 到 4%。這主要來自您增加的 28 納米組合嗎？或者，鑑於需求未得到滿足，您是否仍然看到客戶的晶圓價格上漲？

It has both the results of both pricing increase as well as the better product mix.

它既有價格上漲的結果，也有更好的產品組合。

Okay. Okay. One last question. This DENSO JV on IGBT, congratulations on that. Could you talk a little bit about what kind of capacity of UMC Japan would you be allocating for that? Is there any details in terms of the plans for this?

好的。好的。最後一個問題。這家 DENSO JV 在 IGBT 上，對此表示祝賀。你能談談你會為此分配什麼樣的UMC日本產能？有沒有這方面的計劃細節？

Sure. Under the program, UMC, we, through USJC will provide 12-inch IGBT manufacturing service to DENSO. The program is, while the DENSO will bear the CapEx for the tools and USJC will bear the CapEx for clean room and facilities. And the production ramp for DENSO will start in 2023, and the targeted capacity ramp will reach 10,000 per month by 2025.

當然。根據該計劃，聯電、我們將通過 USJC 為 DENSO 提供 12 英寸 IGBT 製造服務。該計劃是，DENSO 將承擔工具的資本支出，而 USJC 將承擔潔淨室和設施的資本支出。 DENSO 將於 2023 年開始投產，到 2025 年，目標產能將達到每月 10,000 台。

Next question, Sunny Lin of UBS.

下一個問題，瑞銀的 Sunny Lin。

Jason, Qidong, congrats on the steady performance. My first question is also to follow up on LTA. So I wonder, does your LTA engagement could sort of limit your possibility to push out the capacity expansion if customers continue to pursue the demand?

傑森，啟東，祝賀他的穩定表現。我的第一個問題也是跟進 LTA。所以我想知道，如果客戶繼續追求需求，你的 LTA 參與是否會限制你推出產能擴張的可能性？

It's a contractual obligation, including the timing. So we are managing the equipment delay. So we are doing our best effort to fulfill our contractual obligation not to impact our commitment to all the LTA customers. So the timing is fixed.

這是一項合同義務，包括時間安排。所以我們正在管理設備延遲。因此，我們正在盡最大努力履行我們的合同義務，不影響我們對所有 LTA 客戶的承諾。所以時間是固定的。

Got it. And so maybe a broader question or a high-level question. On the January earnings call, you shared your thoughts on the supply-demand outlook for overall [tooling] at foundry for the next couple of years. Now after a quarter, lots of changes on the demand and also on the supply side, so I wonder if you could share with us your latest thought on the supply/demand outlook?

知道了。所以也許是一個更廣泛的問題或一個高級別的問題。在 1 月份的財報電話會議上，您分享了您對未來幾年鑄造廠整體 [工具] 供需前景的看法。現在一個季度過去了，需求和供應方面都發生了很大變化，請問您能否與我們分享您對供需前景的最新想法？

Well, I mean, for 2022, I think we remain -- our view on 2022 remains solid. The -- in Q1, I think we gave -- we revised up. The foundry industry growth will be about 20% and plus. That view has remained unchanged. And UMCs target to grow in line or higher than that foundry industry, I think that is also firm. For 2023, if we look into the outlook, we remain cautiously optimistic on the market demand. The overall mix trend that UMC is focused on, I think that, that will continue to grow. But, given the current market situation, we -- now we are more cautiously optimistic on that. Over the past few years, through the proactive market positioning and closely working with our -- the overall global leading customers with our ROI-driven CapEx, and I think all these efforts will help us to enhance our position financially, and we'll continue to enhance the company profit even with this market dynamics. So we -- at this point, we -- for the 2023, we are cautiously optimistic about it.

好吧，我的意思是，對於 2022 年，我認為我們仍然——我們對 2022 年的看法仍然穩固。 - 在第一季度，我認為我們給出了 - 我們修改了。代工行業的增長率將在 20% 以上。這種觀點一直沒有改變。而聯華電子的目標是與該代工行業保持一致或更高的增長，我認為這也是堅定的。對於 2023 年的前景，我們對市場需求保持謹慎樂觀。我認為 UMC 所關注的整體混合趨勢將繼續增長。但是，鑑於當前的市場情況，我們現在對此更加謹慎樂觀。在過去的幾年裡，通過積極的市場定位和與我們的全球領先客戶的密切合作，我們以投資回報率驅動資本支出，我認為所有這些努力將幫助我們在財務上提升我們的地位，我們將繼續即使在這種市場動態下也能提高公司利潤。所以我們 - 在這一點上，我們 - 對於 2023 年，我們對此持謹慎樂觀的態度。

Understood. That's very helpful. So any expectation on the industry-wide supply/demand going to 2023 and [2024]?

明白了。這很有幫助。那麼，對到 2023 年和 [2024 年] 的全行業供需有何預期？

Well, I mean, we touched that earlier as well. Given the challenge in the supply chain, including all the shortage, whether on component or labors, there will be some equipment delays. And I think some of the announced capacity may not come online on time. But the -- so I think the -- right now, instead of commenting about the overall market in the 2023 in terms of supply and demand, we feel comfortable about our situation. And given what I just mentioned earlier, given what we have changed in these few years, along with our targeted market, the market megatrends, along with the customer alignment and we feel comfortable about our 2023, regardless of the supply dynamics.

好吧，我的意思是，我們之前也接觸過。鑑於供應鏈中的挑戰，包括所有短缺，無論是零部件還是勞動力，都會出現一些設備延遲。而且我認為一些宣布的容量可能不會按時上線。但是 - 所以我認為 - 現在，我們沒有在供需方面評論 2023 年的整體市場，而是對我們的情況感到滿意。鑑於我剛才提到的，鑑於我們在這幾年中發生的變化，以及我們的目標市場、市場大趨勢以及客戶的一致性，我們對 2023 年感到滿意，無論供應動態如何。

Got it. My another question is on pricing. I think on January -- in January, you guided that for 2022 pricing to go up by about 18 percentage on a blended basis. But if based on second quarter guidance, that may imply a limited upside into second half. Would that be a fair assumption?

知道了。我的另一個問題是關於定價。我認為在一月份 - 一月份，您指導 2022 年的價格在混合基礎上上漲約 18%。但如果基於第二季度的指引，這可能意味著下半年的上行空間有限。這是一個公平的假設嗎？

Well, we guided that. And based on the margin ASP expansion in both Q1 and Q2, we are promisingly approaching our annual target right now.

好吧，我們指導了這一點。基於第一季度和第二季度的利潤率 ASP 擴張，我們現在很有希望接近我們的年度目標。

Got it. So no further update on the full year pricing guidance? Should we anticipate a bit of upside in the second half?

知道了。那麼全年定價指南沒有進一步更新嗎？我們是否應該預期下半年會有一點上漲？

No, we'll probably do that on an ongoing basis -- on a quarterly basis, yes.

不，我們可能會持續這樣做——每季度一次，是的。

Next question, Szeho Ng of China Renaissance.

下一個問題，China Renaissance 的 Szeho Ng。

I have 2 questions. The first one, in DENSO, we agreed to have 3 fabs running the 22/28-nano. Just wonder how we are going to allocate the capacity. Would that be based on customer or based on technology platform or based on the region or countries, the products that's being shipped?

我有 2 個問題。第一個，在 DENSO，我們同意讓 3 個晶圓廠運行 22/28-nano。只是想知道我們將如何分配容量。那是基於客戶還是基於技術平台或基於地區或國家，正在運送的產品？

Well, there are multiple considerations and there's not a simple answer to that. The -- not only from a customer alignment standpoint, we also have to think about each site's economic scales. So we don't want to run the product too fragmented in each site. So we're carefully examining the -- our capacity profile as well as the customer demand and to align that. And so it's quite dynamic, complicated, but it's sophisticated. So I actually don't have a simple answer to that, but I can assure you, it's very, very sophisticated process.

好吧，有多種考慮因素，對此沒有簡單的答案。 - 不僅從客戶一致性的角度來看，我們還必須考慮每個站點的經濟規模。所以我們不想在每個站點上運行過於分散的產品。因此，我們正在仔細檢查我們的產能概況以及客戶需求並與之保持一致。所以它是非常動態的，複雜的，但它是複雜的。所以我實際上沒有一個簡單的答案，但我可以向你保證，這是一個非常非常複雜的過程。

I see, I see, good. So can we assume that basically the 3 sites can basically support one another, then the capacity can be fungible?

我明白了，我明白了，很好。那麼我們是否可以假設三個站點基本上可以相互支持，那麼容量可以互換？

Ideally, they are fungible. But again, the higher flexibility or fungibility, that will actually increase the cost of operating it. So you have to seek a good balance of that. And the -- while you mitigate the demand risk, and you have also achieving a better financial results. So it is about that.

理想情況下，它們是可替代的。但同樣，更高的靈活性或可替代性實際上會增加運營成本。所以你必須尋求一個良好的平衡。而且 - 在您減輕需求風險的同時，您還取得了更好的財務業績。所以就是這樣。

Okay. Fair enough. Second question, equipment delay, I think it's pretty much well known in the market. But would you consider, let's say, the mature photo mask and other area of concern that may limit the final wafer output?

好的。很公平。第二個問題，設備延遲，我認為這在市場上是眾所周知的。但是你會考慮，比如說，成熟的光掩模和其他可能限制最終晶圓產量的關注領域嗎？

Well, I mean, yes, I mean, the answer is yes. It's actually a lot more than that. So we're constantly working on productivity improvements from both base capacity as well as the new capacity and accelerating the ramp-up. So there are multiple efforts and activities. And meanwhile, we're working with the 2 suppliers to shuffle in the (inaudible) and some of the different critical tools to minimize that as well. So it is quite a bit of efforts there, yes.

嗯，我的意思是，是的，我的意思是，答案是肯定的。它實際上遠不止於此。因此，我們一直致力於從基礎產能和新產能提高生產力，並加速產能提升。因此，有多種努力和活動。同時，我們正在與 2 家供應商合作，改組（聽不清）和一些不同的關鍵工具，以盡量減少這種情況。所以這是相當多的努力，是的。

Next question, Nicolas Baratte, Macquarie.

下一個問題，Nicolas Baratte，麥格理。

Could you give us an idea or a range of capacity increase by end of 2020 to end of 2023? So what I mean is, I understand there is equipment delivery uncertainty. I understand there is matching with customer capacity schedule. But if we think about P6 and P3, let's say that in both those fabs, you're going to add 30,000 wafer in each, right? So 2 times 30,000 right? So when do you think reasonably the time frame when we see those 30,000 in production? You've mentioned previously for P6 beginning of revenue in 2Q '23. So is it still the case? And then for P3, what could [this be]?

您能否給我們一個想法或在 2020 年底至 2023 年底之前增加產能的範圍？所以我的意思是，我知道設備交付存在不確定性。我了解與客戶容量計劃相匹配。但是如果我們考慮 P6 和 P3，假設在這兩個晶圓廠中，每個晶圓廠都將添加 30,000 個晶圓，對嗎？所以 2 乘以 30,000 對嗎？那麼，當我們看到這 30,000 台投入生產時，您認為合理的時間框架是什麼時候？您之前提到過 23 年第二季度的 P6 開始收入。那麼情況仍然如此嗎？然後對於 P3，這可能是什麼？

Well, I mean, we kind of touched that for that last answer to address that ramp-up schedule for the 2023 P6. And the original plan is try to have an initial production in Q2 2023. And towards the end of the year, we can reach to a higher -- the full capacity. And so that profile is still under alignment with the supplier. And our goal, based on those assumptions and the support that we have aligned with our customers is also under evaluation. So we continue moving to that same direction. However, I think the priority at this point is to ensure our customers' commitment first, yes.

好吧，我的意思是，我們在最後一個答案中觸及了這一點，以解決 2023 P6 的加速計劃。最初的計劃是嘗試在 2023 年第二季度進行初步生產。到今年年底，我們可以達到更高的產能——滿負荷生產。因此，該配置文件仍與供應商保持一致。基於這些假設和我們與客戶一致的支持，我們的目標也在評估中。所以我們繼續朝著同一個方向前進。但是，我認為此時的首要任務是首先確保我們客戶的承諾，是的。

For 2022, capacity increase is rather firm. We are talking about (inaudible) year-over-year increase, which increased by 8% in 12-inch and [4%] in 8-inch. And our 28-nanometer capacity in 2022 will increase about 20% year-over-year. So because the P5 additional 10,000 wafer is coming online as we speak, so this is a more (inaudible) for this year.

2022年，產能增長相當穩健。我們談論的是（聽不清）同比增長，12 英寸和 8 英寸分別增長了 8% 和 [4%]。到 2022 年，我們的 28 納米產能將同比增長約 20%。因此，由於 P5 額外的 10,000 片晶圓在我們發言時即將上線，所以這是今年的更多（聽不清）。

Understood. Last -- second and last for me is, I understand that the product mix can be difficult to quantify. So what you said the last, PC notebooks, smartphone weakness, I guess, it's what everybody is saying. I also guess that it really depends on customer-specific, client-specific. But when you look at your 20% revenue growth, 20-plus percent revenue growth, I'm sure you have smartphone, PC model that could indicate some downside to that 20%? What do you think is the range?

明白了。最後——對我來說，第二個也是最後一個是，我知道產品組合很難量化。所以你最後說的，個人電腦筆記本，智能手機的弱點，我猜，這就是每個人都在說的。我也猜想這真的取決於特定於客戶，特定於客戶。但是當你看到你 20% 的收入增長，20% 以上的收入增長時，我敢肯定你有智能手機，PC 型號可能表明這 20% 的一些不利因素？你覺得範圍是多少？

So can you -- if I can recap your question, your question is, given our current forecast, what do we see about the decrease of the PC demand related to PC notebook?

那麼您能否——如果我可以重述您的問題，您的問題是，鑑於我們目前的預測，我們對與 PC 筆記本電腦相關的 PC 需求下降有何看法？

What I mean is you said you feel pretty confident to have 20-plus percent revenue growth this year. And then you said smartphone demand is weak but because you make more 5G, OLED and 4G TDDI, the impact for you, actually, I guess you mean it's not that big. But in as much as OLED and 5G, volumes are growing. So I understand that. Nevertheless, I suspect there is some disconnect between a lot of the semiconductor expectation and a very poor consumer spending data or macroeconomic data that most of us are seeing in terms of COVID lockdown in China, inflation in Europe and the U.S. and so forth, which are reaching especially the consumer inflation in some parts of the world is extremely high. So do you have a range around this 20% revenue growth?

我的意思是你說你對今年的收入增長 20% 以上感到非常有信心。然後你說智能手機需求疲軟，但因為你製造了更多的 5G、OLED 和 4G TDDI，對你的影響，實際上，我猜你的意思是沒有那麼大。但與 OLED 和 5G 一樣，數量也在增長。所以我明白這一點。儘管如此，我懷疑許多半導體預期與我們大多數人看到的非常糟糕的消費者支出數據或宏觀經濟數據之間存在一些脫節，包括中國的 COVID 封鎖、歐洲和美國的通貨膨脹等等，這尤其是世界某些地區的消費者通貨膨脹率非常高。那麼您是否有圍繞這 20% 的收入增長的範圍？

First of all, yes, we didn't really say 20%. We were talking about (inaudible) capacity increase and coupled with the mid-teen ASP growth. So yes, of course, that according to calculation should be about 20%. And our President just mentioned, we still cannot fulfill our aggregate demand. There are still some areas that are showing very strong demand for our capacity. But we've been able to fulfill any of the fluctuations for now.

首先，是的，我們並沒有真正說 20%。我們談論的是（聽不清）產能增加，以及青少年平均售價的增長。所以是的，當然，根據計算應該是 20% 左右。而我們的總統剛剛提到，我們仍然無法滿足我們的總需求。仍有一些領域對我們的產能有非常強烈的需求。但我們現在已經能夠滿足任何波動。

Next question, Frank Lee of HSBC.

下一個問題，匯豐銀行的 Frank Lee。

Sorry, I just wanted to follow up on, I guess, that 20% -- implied 20% growth. I think one of your foundry competitors have already talked about a similar type of growth for them this -- or they're going to exceed that. But they've kept the overall industry growth of foundry relatively unchanged. And given their market share and given you're also sort of maintaining your forecast for the full year to be relatively unchanged, does that imply there is more share gain that you're expecting this year, I mean, relatively speaking? Because unless the overall industry growth actually is going to be expected to increase -- I know you guys never gave an explicit industry growth, but just trying to understand, I guess, the numbers that we're seeing right now. And what is that -- is it more implied share gains that you expect this year?

對不起，我只是想跟進，我猜，20%——意味著 20% 的增長。我認為你的一個代工競爭對手已經為他們談論過類似的增長 - 或者他們將超過那個。但他們保持代工的整體行業增長相對不變。考慮到他們的市場份額，並且你也保持對全年的預測相對不變，這是否意味著你預計今年會有更多的份額增長，我的意思是，相對而言？因為除非整個行業的增長實際上預計會增加——我知道你們從未給出明確的行業增長，但我想只是想了解我們現在看到的數字。那是什麼 - 你今年預期的更多隱含的股票收益嗎？

Well, you're right. Here what we have implied, that our target is to grow in line or higher than the foundry industry. So that is, yes, it is a share again, yes, that is aligned to our target.

嗯，你是對的。在這裡，我們已經暗示，我們的目標是與鑄造行業保持一致或更高。也就是說，是的，這又是一個份額，是的，這與我們的目標一致。

Okay. All right. And then I guess the other thing I wanted to -- second question I have is, I think you had mentioned in the past that 28-nano node potentially can be a little softer into next year in the past -- previous analyst meetings. Is that still a view that is being shared right now by management? Or is there any change to that?

好的。好的。然後我想我想要的另一件事-我的第二個問題是，我認為您過去曾提到，28-nano 節點在過去可能會在明年稍微溫和一些-之前的分析師會議。這仍然是管理層現在共享的觀點嗎？或者有什麼改變嗎？

Well, I think our past message was that we believe the 28 will be a sweet spot for many applications as well as some of the new products, which will migrate to 28. So we do believe 28 demand will continue to grow. And our strong 28 product pipeline, we have aligned with our technology, with the industry's megatrend. And along with the endorsement from the global leading customer on the LTA, we have confidence that our 28-nanometer capacity expansion are well protected. And so we -- I think we actually feel pretty comfortable with that, yes.

嗯，我認為我們過去的信息是，我們相信 28 將成為許多應用程序以及一些新產品的最佳選擇，這些新產品將遷移到 28。所以我們相信 28 的需求將繼續增長。而我們強大的 28 種產品線，我們已經與我們的技術、行業的大趨勢保持一致。加上全球領先客戶對LTA的認可，我們有信心我們的28納米產能擴張得到了很好的保障。所以我們 - 我認為我們實際上對此感到很舒服，是的。

Okay. So it's more of a -- sorry, just a follow-up there, the protection is more company-specific on 28 because of your product mix and in terms of your agreements. And that's the relative comfort you have.

好的。因此，這更像是一個 - 抱歉，只是一個後續行動，由於您的產品組合和您的協議，保護在 28 上更加針對公司。這就是你所擁有的相對舒適。

Yes. As long -- as well as the focus on the market that we're addressing, that we believe are linked to the megatrend, yes.

是的。只要 - 以及對我們正在解決的市場的關注，我們認為與大趨勢相關，是的。

And ladies and gentlemen, we are running out of time, so we're taking the last question. And the last question would be Patrick Chen of CLSA.

女士們先生們，我們的時間不多了，所以我們要回答最後一個問題。最後一個問題是里昂證券的 Patrick Chen。

Can you talk a bit about this DENSO partnership? Aside from the fact that they are based in Japan and the 12-inch is what you have in Japan, what are the key differences of producing this IGBT 12-inch instead of 8-inch? What are the benefit and challenges? That's number one. And number 2, can you talk about the first quarter noncomponent? What is the main contributor to the 1Q non-op? These are my 2 questions.

您能談談這次 DENSO 的合作夥伴關係嗎？除了他們位於日本並且您在日本擁有 12 英寸這一事實之外，生產這種 12 英寸而不是 8 英寸的 IGBT 的主要區別是什麼？有什麼好處和挑戰？那是第一名。第二，你能談談第一季度的非組件嗎？ 1Q non-op 的主要貢獻者是什麼？這是我的2個問題。

Sure. For the first question, the -- yes, the program that we have with DENSO is under the 12-inch IGBT. And it's our belief, given our diligence shows, we are moving into a 12-inch serving multiple purpose and benefits. One is performance and cost as well as the supply. The 12-inch does give the alternative solution to current supply term spend in IGBT space. And as we expect, the outer market will continue to grow, and we think this will serve that, and will be beneficial to both DENSO and UMC. And on the other hand is the specialty technology is what UMC is focused, and we still believe there will be more specialty technology required to fulfill the automotive application. And this DENSO collaboration is more a highlight to our ongoing effort in providing the support to the automotive market with our specialty technology, yes. So maybe Qidong can help with your second question.

當然。對於第一個問題，——是的，我們與 DENSO 合作的程序是在 12 英寸 IGBT 下進行的。這是我們的信念，鑑於我們的勤奮表現，我們正在進入一個服務於多種用途和利益的 12 英寸。一是性能和成本以及供應。 12 英寸確實為 IGBT 領域的當前供應期支出提供了替代解決方案。正如我們預期的那樣，外部市場將繼續增長，我們認為這將服務於這一點，並且對 DENSO 和 UMC 都有利。另一方面是聯電所專注的專業技術，我們仍然相信需要更多的專業技術來實現汽車應用。是的，此次 DENSO 合作更是我們通過我們的專業技術為汽車市場提供支持的持續努力的一個亮點。所以也許啟東可以幫助你解決第二個問題。

Yes. In terms of non-op in Q1, about TWD 900 million is ForEx gain. And TWD 500 million is mark-to-market value gain from our investments. And there's also a TWD 300 million interest expenses. That's the bulk of non-op in Q1.

是的。在第一季度的非運營方面，大約 9 億新台幣是外匯收益。 5 億新台幣是我們投資的按市值計價收益。還有3億新台幣的利息支出。這是第一季度的大部分非運營。

And ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for all your questions. That concludes today's Q&A session. And now I'll turn things over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

女士們，先生們，我們感謝你們提出的所有問題。今天的問答環節到此結束。現在，我將把事情交給 UMC IR 負責人來結束髮言。

Thank you for attending this conference today. We appreciate your questions. As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at ir@umc.com. Have a good day.

感謝您參加今天的這次會議。我們感謝您的提問。與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時通過 ir@umc.com 聯繫 UMC。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for 1Q '22. We thank you for your participation in UMCs conference. There will be a webcast replay within 2 hours. Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors Events section. You may now disconnect. Goodbye.

謝謝你。女士們先生們，我們的 22 年第一季度會議到此結束。我們感謝您參加 UMCs 會議。 2小時內將進行網絡直播重播。請訪問 www.umc.com 的“投資者活動”部分。您現在可以斷開連接。再見。