聯華電子 (UMC) 2022 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome everyone to UMC's 2022 Second Quarter Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) This conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet. Webcast replay will be available within 2 hours after the conference has finished please visit our website www.umc.com under the Investor Relations, Investors Event section.

歡迎大家參加聯華電子 2022 年第二季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）本次電話會議正在互聯網上進行現場直播。網絡直播重播將在會議結束後 2 小時內提供，請訪問我們的網站 www.umc.com 的投資者關係，投資者活動部分。

Now I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin. Head of Investor Relations at UMC. And Mr. Lin please begin.

現在我要介紹Michael Lin先生。聯華電子投資者關係主管。請林先生開始。

Thank you and welcome to a UMC's conference call for the second quarter of 2022. I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, the President of UMC. And Mr. Chi-Tung Liu, the CFO of UMC. In a moment we will hear our CFO present the second quarter financial results, followed by our President's message to address UMC's focus and third quarter 2022 guidance. Once our President and CFO complete their remarks there will be a Q&A session.

謝謝大家，歡迎參加聯電 2022 年第二季度的電話會議。聯電總裁 Jason Wang 先生加入了我的行列。以及聯電首席財務官劉志東先生。稍後，我們將聽到我們的首席財務官介紹第二季度的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁關於聯華電子的重點和 2022 年第三季度指導的信息。一旦我們的總裁和首席財務官完成他們的發言，就會有一個問答環節。

UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website www.umc.com under the Investor Financials section. During this conference, we may make forward-looking statements based on management's current expectations and belief. These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond the company's control. For a more detailed discussion of these risks and uncertainties, please refer to our recent and subsequent filings with the SEC and the ROC security authorities.

UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的投資者財務部分下獲得。在本次會議期間，我們可能會根據管理層當前的預期和信念做出前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。有關這些風險和不確定性的更詳細討論，請參閱我們最近和隨後向 SEC 和 ROC 安全機構提交的文件。

During this conference you may view our financial presentation material, which is being broadcast live through the internet. Now, I would like to introduce UMC's CFO Mr. Chi-Tung Liu to discuss UMC's second quarter 2022 financial results.

在本次會議期間，您可以查看我們通過互聯網直播的財務演示材料。現在，我想介紹聯電首席財務官劉志東先生，討論聯電2022年第二季度的財務業績。

Thank you Michael. I would like to go through the 2Q '22 investor conference presentation materials, which can be downloaded or viewed in real times on our website.

謝謝邁克爾。我想瀏覽一下 2Q '22 投資者會議演示材料，這些材料可以在我們的網站上實時下載或查看。

Starting on Page 3, the snapshot of our operating results. Our utilization rate in quarter 2 was still over 100% plus and revenue reached TWD 72 billion I think -- I believe this is a record high. And EPS is TWD 1.74 for the second quarter compared to TWD 1.61 in the previous quarter and also TWD 0.98 in the second quarter of last year.

從第 3 頁開始，我們的經營業績快照。我們第二季度的使用率仍然超過 100% 以上，我認為收入達到了 720 億新台幣——我相信這是歷史新高。第二季度每股收益為 1.74 新台幣，而上一季度為 1.61 新台幣，去年第二季度為 0.98 新台幣。

Next page please. For our quarter-over-quarter comparison, revenue growth 13.6% to TWD 72 billion. Gross margin rate increased to 46.5% from 43.4% in the previous quarter. And operating income is TWD 28.1 billion or 39.1 percentage points. Net non-operating income is a loss of TWD 2.58 billion mainly due to the weakness in the capital market and UMC's investment portfolio was mark to market and that's a majority of the TWD [2.5] billion loss in the second quarter of 2022. And net income reached TWD 21.5 billion or the equivalent of EPS TWD 1.74 in quarter 2 of 2022.

請下一頁。對於我們的季度環比比較，收入增長 13.6% 至 720 億新台幣。毛利率從上一季度的 43.4% 增至 46.5%。營業收入為281億新台幣或39.1個百分點。淨營業外收入虧損 25.8 億新台幣，主要是由於資本市場疲軟，而聯電的投資組合按市值計價，這是 2022 年第二季度虧損 [2.5 億新台幣] 的大部分。 2022年第二季度收入達到215億新台幣或相當於每股收益1.74新台幣。

For the cumulative performance for the first 6 months of the year, revenue reached TWD 135.4 billion which is an increase of 38.2% year-over-year, and this is in the NT dollar currency. Gross profit is TWD 60.9 billion period or 45% gross margin rate and operating income reached over TWD 50.4 billion and operating margin of 37.3%. And for the EPS of the first half of the year it's TWD 3.35 compared to TWD 1.83 in the same period of 2021.

今年前6個月累計業績達1354億新台幣，按新台幣計算，同比增長38.2%。期間毛利609億新台幣，毛利率45%，營業收入達504億新台幣以上，營業利潤率37.3%。今年上半年的每股收益為 3.35 新台幣，而 2021 年同期為 1.83 新台幣。

Cash before our dividend payout was TWD 183.7 billion by the end of June this year and total equity for the company is around TWD 283.2 billion. For our 13.8% revenue growth in the third quarter -- or in the second quarter; 3 factors. Both the AP and wafer shipment include as well as the NT dollar depreciation all contribute to our revenue growth in the second quarter. And the factor is roughly 1/3 of the growth rate each. So that reflects in our ASP growth in second quarter of 2022.

截至今年6月底，派息前的現金為1837億新台幣，公司總股本約為2832億新台幣。對於我們第三季度或第二季度 13.8% 的收入增長； 3個因素。 AP和晶圓出貨量以及新台幣貶值都對我們第二季度的收入增長做出了貢獻。而這個因素大約是每個增長率的 1/3。這反映在我們 2022 年第二季度的 ASP 增長中。

In terms of revenue breakdown, the ratio remained similar between quarter 2 and quarter 1. IDM increased slightly in second quarter to 43%. And the segment breakdown, again, remains similar to Q1, where we see some minor decrease in computer in actual dollar terms all segments see a growth in the second quarter of 2022. We have new capacity available in [28] in the second quarter that helped our 28/22 revenue percentage to grow to 22% in the second quarter compared to 20% in Q1 of this year. And the rest of the geometry breakdown doesn't change too much.

在收入細分方面，第 2 季度和第 1 季度的比率保持相似。IDM 在第二季度略有增長，達到 43%。細分市場細分仍然與第一季度相似，我們看到以實際美元計算的計算機略有下降，所有細分市場在 2022 年第二季度都有增長。我們在第二季度 [28] 中有新的可用容量幫助我們的 28/22 收入百分比在第二季度增長到 22%，而今年第一季度為 20%。其餘的幾何分解並沒有太大變化。

As I mentioned, in quarter 2, our 12A has a more meaningful IC growth which is paying pay a new capacity came online in the beginning of quarter 2. For quarter 3 overall capacity compared to quarter 2 there's only a very minor increase in terms of quarterly capacity.

正如我所提到的，在第 2 季度，我們的 12A 有一個更有意義的 IC 增長，這是在支付新的容量在第 2 季度初上線。與第 2 季度相比，第 3 季度的總體容量只有很小的增長。季度產能。

And for CapEx, well, here on cash basis, it remained around $3.6 billion, with majority goes to capacity-related expansion for 12 inch. So the above is a summary of UMC's results for quarter 2, 2022. More details are available in the report which has been posted on our website. I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Jason Wang.

而對於資本支出而言，以現金為基礎，它仍然保持在 36 億美元左右，其中大部分用於與產能相關的 12 英寸擴張。以上是聯華電子 2022 年第 2 季度業績的摘要。更多詳情請參閱我們網站上發布的報告。我現在將把電話轉給聯電總裁 Jason Wang 先生。

Thank you Chi-Tung. Good evening everyone. Here I would like to share UMC's second quarter highlights. In Q2, we delivered a result in line with guidance, thanks to continued strong demand for UMC's differentiated processes across our end markets. Overall wafer shipments rose 4.3% from the previous quarter, while higher average selling price and a favorable foreign exchange rate lifted second quarter gross margin to 46.5%. Revenue from our 22/28 nanometer portfolio increased 29% sequentially driven by the additional capacity at FAB 12A P5 that came online during the second quarter. We are confident in the long-term growth prospects of our 22/28 nanometer system, which now represents 22% of UMC'S overall wafer revenue. And has demonstrated solid traction for OLED display drivers, image processors, Wi-Fi and automotive applications. As the structural strength drives semiconductor content increased in end devices from smartphones to automobiles it is our conviction that 28 nanometer it is a long lasting node that will be important for many existing and emergent applications for years to come.

謝謝智東。各位晚上好。在這裡，我想分享聯電第二季度的亮點。由於終端市場對聯華電子差異化流程的持續強勁需求，我們在第二季度交付了符合指引的結果。整體晶圓出貨量較上一季度增長 4.3%，而較高的平均售價和有利的匯率將第二季度的毛利率提升至 46.5%。由於第二季度上線的 FAB 12A P5 的額外產能，我們 22/28 納米產品組合的收入環比增長了 29%。我們對 22/28 納米系統的長期增長前景充滿信心，目前該系統佔聯華電子整體晶圓收入的 22%。並且已在 OLED 顯示驅動器、圖像處理器、Wi-Fi 和汽車應用中展示出強大的吸引力。由於結構強度推動了從智能手機到汽車等終端設備中半導體含量的增加，我們堅信 28 納米是一個持久的節點，對於未來幾年的許多現有和新興應用來說將是重要的。

Going into the third quarter we expect our business to remain firm while cooling demand for smartphone PC and consumer electronics may pose some short term fluctuations we are actually working with customers to adjust their product mix. Coming off a supercycle over the past 2 years, the semiconductor industry is now in a period of inventory correction. We believe UMC's comprehensive portfolio for differentiated leading specialty technologies and strong partnerships with leading customers will help us navigate the cyclical macro environment.

進入第三季度，我們預計我們的業務將保持堅挺，而對智能手機 PC 和消費電子產品的需求降溫可能會帶來一些短期波動，我們實際上正在與客戶合作調整他們的產品組合。半導體行業在過去 2 年走出了一個超級週期，現在正處於庫存調整期。我們相信，聯華電子在差異化領先專業技術方面的全面產品組合以及與領先客戶的強大合作夥伴關係將幫助我們駕馭週期性的宏觀環境。

Now I'd like to move on to third quarter 2022 guidance. Our wafer shipments will remain flat. ASP in US dollars will remain flat.

現在我想轉到 2022 年第三季度的指導。我們的晶圓出貨量將保持平穩。美元平均售價將保持平穩。

Gross profit margin will be in the mid-40% range. Capacity utilization rate will be at 100%. Our 2022 cash-based CapEx will be budgeted at USD 3.6 billion. That concludes my comments. Thank you all for your attention. Now we are ready for questions.

毛利率將在40%左右。產能利用率將達到100%。我們 2022 年基於現金的資本支出預算為 36 億美元。我的評論到此結束。謝謝大家的關注。現在我們準備好提問了。

Thank you, President Wang. (Operator Instructions) And our first question is coming from Randy Abrams, Credit Suisse.

謝謝王總。 （操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams。

I wanted to ask a question just on your outlook, where you mentioned the inventory correction starting in some of the applications. Could you give a view how you're looking now on just steepness or type of correction you're seeing if you expect a period of underutilization. And TSMC was giving a framework, they expected to surpass. But if there's a feel for inventory, how long it may take. So just wanted to get a perspective of how you're viewing the next few quarters.

我想問一個關於你的前景的問題，你提到了從一些應用程序開始的庫存修正。如果您預計一段未充分利用的時期，您能否就您所看到的陡峭度或修正類型給出您現在的看法。台積電給出了一個框架，他們希望超越。但如果對庫存有感覺，可能需要多長時間。所以只是想了解一下你如何看待接下來的幾個季度。

Well, okay. So already, we have observed the customer outcomes in general that we are aware that inventory level is in a relatively high in certain segments. However, it will be hard to predict how long it will take to digest the semi inventory under the macro economy uncertainty. So we will closely monitor the current situation and respond to the changes in customer forecast accordingly. The -- while we saw -- while we observed the softening demand in the smartphone, notebook and consumer section, the others in the segment, the networking, industrial, auto, it actually has a more stable demand. So again, there are some observations about inventory concerns. And -- but we have foreseen some -- our Q3 loading will be 4. And for the Q3, we will continue monitoring the market outlook and probably report that in the next conference call.

哦，那好吧。因此，我們已經觀察到總體上的客戶結果，我們知道某些細分市場的庫存水平相對較高。不過，在宏觀經濟不確定的情況下，消化半庫存需要多長時間將難以預測。因此，我們將密切關注當前情況，並相應地應對客戶預測的變化。 - 雖然我們看到了 - 雖然我們觀察到智能手機、筆記本電腦和消費類產品的需求疲軟，但該領域的其他產品，網絡、工業、汽車，它實際上有一個更穩定的需求。再次，有一些關於庫存問題的觀察。而且 - 但我們已經預見到了一些 - 我們的第三季度負載將是 4。對於第三季度，我們將繼續監測市場前景，並可能在下一次電話會議上報告。

A question on third quarter for the shipments flat. I know Chi-Tung mentioned not much capacity coming online. Is it that you're constrained shipping more or because of the inventory correction, it's already limiting ability to get some seasonal or some increase. And then I'm curious to your view on the pricing environment. There's been -- the market talk about start of some discounts, but how you're seeing outlook for pricing?

第三季度出貨量持平的問題。我知道 Chi-Tung 提到上線的容量不多。是因為您的運輸受到更多限制，還是因為庫存修正，它已經限制了獲得一些季節性或一些增加的能力。然後我很好奇你對定價環境的看法。有 - 市場談論一些折扣的開始，但您如何看待定價前景？

Well, our pricing will remain firm. And well, the -- and we believe we'll be able to maintain the healthy loading for the year, mainly because of steady demand from the auto industrial and server and the network segments. For Q3, the stable demand in those areas allow us to mostly compensate the softness of the computer and consumer segments. So we -- at this current point, our pricing remains firm.

好吧，我們的定價將保持堅挺。好吧，我們相信今年我們將能夠保持健康的負載，主要是因為汽車工業和服務器以及網絡領域的穩定需求。對於第三季度，這些領域的穩定需求使我們能夠在很大程度上彌補計算機和消費領域的疲軟。所以我們 - 在目前這一點上，我們的定價仍然堅定。

And it sounds like you mentioned through the end of the year, you expect healthy loading. And I'm curious on your view on 28. You -- 2 parts to it. You talked about existing and new applications. If you could give a flavor, the new applications or next wave. And if you could also give an update on the next phase, the Phase 6 timing to bring that up, if that's all 28 -- and given the environment, you still see that fully committed?

聽起來你在年底之前提到過，你期待健康的加載。我很好奇你對 28 的看法。你——它的 2 個部分。您談到了現有的和新的應用程序。如果你能給一個味道，新的應用程序或下一波。如果您還可以提供下一階段的更新，第 6 階段的時間安排，如果這就是全部 28 - 並且考慮到環境，您仍然看到完全承諾？

Well, first, we believe that 28 and 22 will be a long-lasting node and supported by a very diversified base of the product portfolio. In the next few years, we expect the 28 and 22 demand will remain robust driven by applications like Wi-Fi 6, 6E networking in the GPON area and OLED driver applications.

嗯，首先，我們相信 28 和 22 將是一個持久的節點，並得到非常多樣化的產品組合基礎的支持。在未來幾年，我們預計 28 和 22 的需求將在 GPON 領域的 Wi-Fi 6、6E 網絡和 OLED 驅動器應用等應用的推動下保持強勁。

And maybe an update on the next phase, timing that you would have the capacity available and how you're seeing that committed and whether the LTAs that you still have that locked up with LTAs?

可能是下一階段的更新，您將擁有可用容量的時間安排以及您如何看待已提交的容量以及您是否仍將 LTA 與 LTA 鎖定在一起？

Yes. I mean we do expect the P6 ramp-up started from June '23, mid next year. And right now, it's thanks to our fab effort. By the way, the lead time is actually stretching out. But thanks to our fab effort to minimize the 2 delivery impact. Our current ramp will remain at the June 23, next year, June -- mid next year. And all this P6 ramp is acted by the LTA arrangement. And we still believe the LTA is a good mechanism because it presents the mutual commitment for both customer and UMC to secure our future growth.

是的。我的意思是，我們確實預計 P6 的增加將從明年 23 年 6 月開始。現在，這要歸功於我們的晶圓廠努力。順便說一句，交貨時間實際上正在延長。但感謝我們的晶圓廠努力將 2 交付影響降至最低。我們目前的斜坡將保持在明年 6 月 23 日，即明年 6 月 - 明年年中。所有這些 P6 斜坡都由 LTA 安排執行。我們仍然相信長期協議是一個很好的機制，因為它代表了客戶和聯電雙方的共同承諾，以確保我們未來的增長。

And just one last, if you could give an early framework the spending for next year, we're -- it's probably partly that and then partly Singapore. And if you -- I guess just looking at the macro uncertainty and the downturn, like how firm do you see schedule? Like would you consider push out your delays if the macro looks sharper and the slowdown?

最後一個，如果你能給明年的支出提供一個早期框架，我們 - 可能部分是這樣，然後是部分新加坡。如果你——我想只看宏觀的不確定性和低迷，你對時間表的看法有多堅定？如果宏觀看起來更加尖銳並且經濟放緩，您會考慮推遲延遲嗎？

Well, I mean, for CapEx, we maintain confidence in the industry's megatrends for long-term growth. And our CapEx decision was based on market and customers' endorsement together with a disciplined ROI-driven CapEx strategy we have adopted a few years ago and with a billing affordability. And the capacity expansion in 12A P6 and the current 12I P3 conversation and our competitive -- the depletion specialty technology solution will actually help to deliver the growth for both UMC and our partners in the long run. So given the capacity expansion plan is more of a longer-term strategy, therefore, near-term cyclical headwinds now will not impact our long-term plan at this moment.

好吧，我的意思是，對於資本支出，我們對行業長期增長的大趨勢保持信心。我們的資本支出決定是基於市場和客戶的認可，以及我們幾年前採用的嚴格的投資回報率驅動的資本支出戰略以及計費承受能力。從長遠來看，12A P6 和當前 12I P3 對話的容量擴展以及我們的競爭——耗盡專業技術解決方案實際上將有助於為 UMC 和我們的合作夥伴帶來增長。因此，鑑於產能擴張計劃更多是一項長期戰略，因此，近期的周期性逆風目前不會影響我們的長期計劃。

And next, we'll have Brett Simpson of Arete Research.

接下來，我們將邀請 Arete Research 的 Brett Simpson。

Jason, I wanted to just talk a bit about CapEx. Looking at the first half of this year, you spent a little less than USD 700 million, and you've maintained your spending plan this year at 3.6%. So it implies quite a big uplift in spending in the second half. Is that still -- just given the environment we're in with WFE tools, you were having some challenges to deliver on time and also some of the macro concerns that you laid out, how do you feel about that CapEx budget actually being spent all in the second half? And then I wanted to just also follow up on consumer, your sales in the second quarter were up 14% sequentially in consumer. And I'd love to understand what's behind that increase and how you see the consumer outlook specifically for the second half of the year?

傑森，我想談談資本支出。看今年上半年，你花了不到7億美元，今年的支出計劃維持在3.6%。因此，這意味著下半年支出將大幅增加。仍然如此 - 只是考慮到我們使用 WFE 工具所處的環境，您在按時交付方面遇到了一些挑戰，還有您提出的一些宏觀問題，您對實際花費的資本支出預算有何看法下半場？然後我還想跟進消費者，您在第二季度的消費者銷售額環比增長了 14%。我很想了解這種增長的背後是什麼，以及您如何看待下半年的消費者前景？

Yes. For CapEx spending, according to the current schedule, it will be rather second half cases. So we still keep our $3.6 billion numbers. Of course, this is a rolling basis. But I believe the end result won't be too different from the $3.6 billion budget numbers.

是的。對於資本支出，根據目前的時間表，這將是下半年的情況。所以我們仍然保留我們 36 億美元的數字。當然，這是滾動的基礎。但我相信最終結果與 36 億美元的預算數字不會有太大不同。

So going to your question about the current segment outlook, we did maintain a healthy loading for both Q2 and we foresee that we will maintain healthy loading for this year. And because with the steady demand from auto, industrial, server and networking segment, I mentioned earlier. However, we do see some of the other segments as more of a weaker segment in the communication, consumer and computer area. While they can be offset by the stronger segment that maintained the full loading at the same time, we actually see the consumer actually still grow sequentially 12% quarter-over-quarter, mainly from the power devices, Wi-Fi, digital TV, set-top box and LCD controllers as well as the MCU. So there are many applications that remain strong in the subsegment of the consumer. So within each segment there are stronger and there are some weaker sub-segments. So at this point, in the Q2, the consumer remains very healthy. We do see this will change a little bit going into the second half. So for the Q3, we probably see more of a decline in percentage in the consumer as well as computing but be compensated by the auto and communication I touched earlier.

因此，關於您關於當前細分市場前景的問題，我們確實在第二季度保持了健康的負載，我們預計今年我們將保持健康的負載。因為汽車、工業、服務器和網絡領域的穩定需求，我前面提到過。然而，我們確實認為其他一些細分市場在通信、消費者和計算機領域中更為薄弱。雖然它們可以被同時保持滿負荷的更強勁的細分市場所抵消，但我們實際上看到消費者實際上仍然環比增長 12%，主要來自電源設備、Wi-Fi、數字電視、電視機- 機頂盒和 LCD 控制器以及 MCU。因此，在消費者細分市場中，有許多應用程序仍然很強大。因此，在每個細分市場中，都有較強的細分市場，也有一些較弱的細分市場。所以在這一點上，在第二季度，消費者仍然非常健康。我們確實看到這將在下半場發生一些變化。因此，對於第三季度，我們可能會看到消費者和計算領域的百分比下降更多，但我之前提到的汽車和通信領域有所彌補。

And maybe one last question. There's been a lot of talk in the industry about costs going up. We see inflation in wages. We see inflation in materials, even WFE tools are getting more expensive. And I'm just looking to understand like how do you see this impacting your business? And more specifically, can you pass on rising costs to your customers? Do you expect to increase wafer prices further from here? And how do you think about the pressures on costs relative to -- typically the industry cuts pricing when utilization comes down. How do you see that balance between cost inflation and the need to pass on that cost to customers versus falling utilization as we go through this inventory correction that you laid out?

也許還有最後一個問題。業內有很多關於成本上升的討論。我們看到工資通脹。我們看到材料膨脹，甚至 WFE 工具也變得越來越貴。我只是想了解一下，您認為這對您的業務有何影響？更具體地說，您能否將不斷上漲的成本轉嫁給您的客戶？您是否期望從這裡進一步提高晶圓價格？以及您如何看待相對於成本的壓力——通常，當利用率下降時，行業會降低定價。當我們進行您提出的庫存修正時，您如何看待成本膨脹和將成本轉嫁給客戶的需要與利用率下降之間的平衡？

Okay? So first is about the costs up, right? In light of the rising costs contribute to raw material, utility and labor rate, we do observe that. And the company's actually -- to offset those headwinds with continuous cost reduction efforts through mix optimization, productivity improvement. So we are doing our best to continue offsetting that. But from the ASP standpoint, we -- there's a couple of layers of consideration. One is on the ASP positioning, we -- the ASP usually, in our view, reflects our relevance in the supply chain. And while UMC continue to enhance our value proposition to our customer, not only based on the demand supply dynamics, and we usually position that's how we view the ASP position. In light of the higher inflationary costs throughout the supply chain, we -- like I said, we are not immune. So therefore, we will cooperate with our customers to navigate the headwinds in conjunction with our internal cost reduction effort. So yes, we will be very transparent with our customers about the cost increase, and at the same time, we will work with them closely to address that issue.

好的？所以首先是關於成本上升，對吧？鑑於成本上升對原材料、公用事業和勞動力率的貢獻，我們確實注意到了這一點。而公司實際上——通過優化組合、提高生產力來不斷降低成本，以抵消這些不利因素。因此，我們正在盡最大努力繼續抵消這一點。但從 ASP 的角度來看，我們有幾層考慮。一是關於 ASP 的定位，我們認為 ASP 通常反映了我們在供應鏈中的相關性。雖然聯華電子繼續提升我們對客戶的價值主張，不僅基於需求供應動態，而且我們通常以這種方式看待 ASP 的立場。鑑於整個供應鏈的通脹成本較高，我們——就像我說的那樣，我們也不能倖免。因此，我們將與我們的客戶合作，結合我們的內部成本降低工作來應對逆風。所以，是的，我們將對客戶的成本增加非常透明，同時，我們將與他們密切合作以解決這個問題。

Next question, Laura Chen, Citigroup.

下一個問題，花旗集團的 Laura Chen。

I'm just wondering that if there is any update on your FinFET process development. I recall management mentioned earlier that you get the plan to further leverage your expansion in 22 for maybe future migration for 14. So just curious, given the expansion we have continued in 20 and 22, but do we have any plan for any like a future potential migration to FinFET?

我只是想知道你們的 FinFET 工藝開發是否有任何更新。我記得管理層之前提到過，您計劃進一步利用您在 22 年的擴張，以應對未來 14 年的遷移。所以很好奇，鑑於我們在 20 年和 22 年繼續擴張，但我們是否有任何類似未來的計劃向 FinFET 的潛在遷移？

Well, our FinFET our 14 FinFET entered production a few years ago with some limited customer. And however, our future capacity plan will still depend on the market and consumer demand outlook. The plan remains unchanged at this point. And while we actually focus on addressing the strong demand of other nodes. So we will continue making progress on the FinFET but on the capacity deployment point of view, it does have a lower priority compared with the other node at this moment. Again, this has to realign back to our megatrends and also our ROI discipline, the CapEx strategy, and there are priority and selection considerations. So we're still putting the 14 on the road map, but the significant -- the capacity deployment plan is not in the near term yet.

好吧，我們的 FinFET 我們的 14 FinFET 幾年前與一些有限的客戶一起投入生產。然而，我們未來的產能計劃仍將取決於市場和消費者需求前景。計劃在這一點上保持不變。雖然我們實際上專注於解決其他節點的強烈需求。因此，我們將繼續在 FinFET 上取得進展，但從容量部署的角度來看，目前與其他節點相比，它的優先級確實較低。同樣，這必須重新調整到我們的大趨勢以及我們的 ROI 紀律、資本支出戰略，並且有優先級和選擇考慮因素。所以我們仍然將 14 放在路線圖上，但重要的是——容量部署計劃還沒有在短期內。

And another question I have is about the specialty process. Can you give us more color about what are you exactly offer in the specialty process? And how big is that account for your revenue? And can it also be kind of supported for the ASP, et cetera?

我的另一個問題是關於專業流程。你能給我們更多關於你在專業過程中究竟提供什麼的顏色嗎？該帳戶對您的收入有多大？ ASP 等也可以支持它嗎？

Well, I mean the -- our specialty technology is representing about 50% to 55% of our revenue today. And it is a direction that we continue marching, and we are making some significant progress. And while we continue delivering the advanced specialty technology, for instance, in the 28 nanometer, we have delivered a first high-voltage solution, and we also continue delivering the BCD technology in 55 and RF SOI in the 55-nanometer as well. Those all consider a very advanced specialty technology in those mature technology nodes. However, they are considered advanced technology offering. So we are making good progress there. And this is the current 50% to 55% revenue contribution to the -- from a specialty is right on track what we planned.

好吧，我的意思是——我們的專業技術目前約占我們收入的 50% 到 55%。這是我們繼續前進的方向，我們正在取得一些重大進展。在我們繼續提供先進的專業技術（例如 28 納米）的同時，我們已經提供了第一個高壓解決方案，我們還繼續提供 55 納米的 BCD 技術和 55 納米的 RF SOI。在那些成熟的技術節點上都認為是非常先進的專業技術。但是，它們被認為是先進的技術產品。所以我們在那裡取得了良好的進展。這是目前 50% 到 55% 的收入貢獻——來自一個專業的項目正按我們的計劃進行。

Next question Szeho Ng of China Renaissance.

下一個問題是China Renaissance的Szeho Ng。

I have a few questions. I had the first one regarding the long-term agreement. Given the fact that there are some soft patches in the consumer electronics smartphone market, I'm not quite sure about the enforceability of the LTA on the existing capacity right now.

我有幾個問題。我有第一個關於長期協議的。鑑於消費電子智能手機市場存在一些軟補丁，我不太確定 LTA 目前對現有產能的可執行性。

So your question is about how bad is the LTA right now?

所以你的問題是LTA現在有多糟糕？

Right. Right. Will we be considering to relax some of the terms?

正確的。正確的。我們會考慮放寬一些條款嗎？

Well, first of all, LTA is a major commitment from us and for both customer and UMC. So we have certain obligations as well. And the objective is to try to secure future growth for both. And both parties right now have treated this LTA agreement very seriously. And despite the recent market downtrend, we have observed that customers are bringing in pooling orders with us to honor their contractual commitment. So yes, we have started to recognize some of the customers' penalty due to some -- the fail to meet the original terms. However, that's still a very minimum compared to the current size of the LTAs.

嗯，首先，LTA 是我們對客戶和聯華電子的一項重大承諾。所以我們也有一定的義務。目標是努力確保兩者的未來增長。而雙方現在都非常認真地對待這份LTA協議。儘管最近市場出現下跌趨勢，但我們觀察到客戶正在與我們一起提交合併訂單以履行他們的合同承諾。所以是的，我們已經開始認識到一些客戶的懲罰是由於一些——未能滿足原始條款。然而，與目前的長期協議規模相比，這仍然是一個非常小的數字。

And then for the quarterly guidance, we are guiding for [top end] to become flat. I'm not sure if we can comment a little bit on the monthly linearity here.

然後對於季度指導，我們正在指導[高端]變得平坦。我不確定我們是否可以在這裡評論一下每月的線性度。

Yes. We cannot comment on the monthly trend. The uncertainty has increased. But we are confident about both the capacity side, as I mentioned, only grow very marginal, almost no change, but it will remain at 100% loading. So shipment-wise, it should be flat. ASP-wise the outlook is firm. So we are also confident about our ASP. The only uncontrollable part is the ForEx. And certainly, we are building some software for that. So that's about the fundamental assumption for our outlook.

是的。我們無法評論月度趨勢。不確定性增加了。但我們對容量方面充滿信心，正如我所提到的，只是增長非常微不足道，幾乎沒有變化，但仍將保持 100% 的負載。所以出貨方面，它應該是平的。 ASP 方面的前景是堅定的。所以我們對我們的ASP也很有信心。唯一不可控的部分是外匯。當然，我們正在為此構建一些軟件。這就是我們展望的基本假設。

Chi-Tung, maybe the last question from my side. Regarding the other operating income line, yes, I think that's referring to the technology license into UMC (inaudible) right? Just wondering how long it would last here? Actually, I asked this question quarters back, but I just want you to provide a --

Chi-Tung，也許是我這邊的最後一個問題。關於另一條營業收入線，是的，我認為這是指 UMC 的技術許可（聽不清），對嗎？只是想知道它會在這裡持續多久？實際上，我早在上個季度就問過這個問題，但我只是想讓你提供一個——

So that's mainly the subsidiaries from the -- no, subsidies from the local government and money already in the pocket. And the accounting book recognition wise, as OIE is through the -- that's along with the equipment depreciation schedule, which normally 6 years. So it won't go away until our depreciation expenses start to fall off. So it's really the whole point for getting a subsidy for the depreciation period.

所以這主要是來自當地政府的補貼和已經在口袋裡的錢的子公司。會計賬簿的認可是明智的，因為 OIE 是通過 - 這與設備折舊計劃一起，通常為 6 年。所以它不會消失，直到我們的折舊費用開始下降。因此，在折舊期間獲得補貼真的很重要。

Along with that --

與此同時——

Sorry?

對不起？

Along with that end -- I mean, the --

除了那個目的——我的意思是——

Maybe another 2 years.

也許再過2年。

Another 2 years from now?

再過2年？

Yes.

是的。

Next question Sunny Lin, UBS.

下一個問題 Sunny Lin，瑞銀。

So my first question is that I wanted to get your current view on the supply-demand outlook for tooling at foundries, obviously, now outlook is pretty different from the start of the year. And then which part of the trailing edge may see more oversupply risk into 2023 and 2024 based on your current analysis?

所以我的第一個問題是，我想了解您目前對鑄造廠工具供需前景的看法，顯然，現在的前景與今年年初有很大不同。那麼根據您目前的分析，後緣的哪一部分可能會在 2023 年和 2024 年出現更多供過於求的風險？

I mean the -- for 2020 -- let's start with the 2022. Despite the rising uncertainty of the macro outlook, our view of 2022 foundry industry growth of 20% plus remains unchanged. And our target is to grow in line or higher than the foundry industry. That has no change either. For Q2 -- for Q4 2022, we will remain a healthy loading. I reported our guidance in Q3 will be fully loaded, 100% loading. And in Q4, we still believe that we can maintain a healthy loading, while the pricing will remain firm. And as the detail, we will provide an update in our next quarterly conference. Going into 2023, even the rising macro uncertainty continues and higher inflationary cost pressure, we foresee the foundry industry growth in 2023 will be more moderate. And for UMC in 2023, without commenting other peers, we are excited about our P6 capacity, which impacted by LTA and will become available in mid-2023 and will be projected to increase our overall capacity by 5% year-over-year. Our ASP is also expected to remain firm. Based on fore mentioned fundamentals, we -- our goal is to position ourselves to hopefully deliver another good year. I think the overall -- the capacity increase, I think will probably be affected by some of the 2 lead times and also the macro environment. So those capacity expansion in 2023 will probably likely slow down. But I think if your question is about beyond 2022, it will be probably too far out at this point.

我的意思是——對於 2020 年——讓我們從 2022 年開始。儘管宏觀前景的不確定性不斷增加，但我們對 2022 年 20% 以上的代工行業增長的看法保持不變。我們的目標是與鑄造行業保持一致或更高。那也沒有變化。對於第二季度——對於 2022 年第四季度，我們將保持健康的負荷。我報告了我們在第三季度的指導將滿載，100% 加載。在第四季度，我們仍然相信我們可以保持健康的負載，而定價將保持堅挺。作為細節，我們將在下一個季度會議中提供更新。進入 2023 年，即使宏觀不確定性持續上升，通脹成本壓力加大，我們預計 2023 年代工行業增長將更加溫和。對於 2023 年的聯華電子，在不評論其他同行的情況下，我們對 P6 產能感到興奮，該產能受到 LTA 的影響，將於 2023 年年中投入使用，預計我們的整體產能將同比增長 5%。我們的平均售價也有望保持堅挺。基於上述基本面，我們——我們的目標是定位自己，希望能迎來又一個好年景。我認為整體 - 產能增加，我認為可能會受到兩個交貨時間和宏觀環境的影響。因此，2023 年的產能擴張可能會放緩。但我認為，如果您的問題是關於 2022 年以後的問題，那麼此時可能太遙遠了。

And so the 5% capacity increase in 2023. How does that imply for your capacity increase from P6 by end of next year?

所以到 2023 年產能增加 5%。這對您明年年底從 P6 的產能增加有何影響？

So the 5% is mainly driven by P6. So most of the 5% comes from P6.

所以這5%主要是由P6推動的。所以這5%的大部分來自P6。

And then I have a second question. For your 28-nanometer, I understand you may have quite a bit of order backlog from the last few quarters. But at this point, have you started to see the backlog coming down given the consumer electronics weakness? And if the end market continues to slow down, would you consider maybe slowing down the expansion to some extent?

然後我有第二個問題。對於您的 28 納米，我了解您可能在過去幾個季度中積壓了大量訂單。但是在這一點上，鑑於消費電子產品的疲軟，您是否開始看到積壓的訂單減少了？如果終端市場繼續放緩，您是否會考慮在一定程度上放緩擴張步伐？

Well, first of all, we have observed some inventory correction, while we maintain healthy utilization rates. For some segments, we have experiencing a decrease in the unfulfilled demand as well as the order adjustment, but not to the level that we need to reconsider the CapEx. For the CapEx adjustments, we still remain confident in this long-term megatrends. And like I stated earlier, given the capacity expansion plan is a more long-term strategy. Therefore, the near-term cyclical headwinds will not impact our long-term plan at this moment.

嗯，首先，我們觀察到一些庫存修正，同時我們保持健康的利用率。對於某些細分市場，我們的未滿足需求和訂單調整有所減少，但並未達到我們需要重新考慮資本支出的水平。對於資本支出調整，我們仍然對這一長期大趨勢充滿信心。就像我之前所說的，鑑於產能擴張計劃是一個更長期的戰略。因此，近期的周期性逆風目前不會影響我們的長期計劃。

Next question, Charlie Chan of Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題，摩根士丹利的 Charlie Chan。

Congratulations for great results. I have a couple of follow-up questions. So first of all, on the cycle debate, I understand that company has a great specialty technology and maybe 70% is covered by LT, et cetera. But still, right, there's still 20%, 30% of business are exposed to the commodity markets. So there's a use LCD driver [IC CAD] study. So Jason, do you see any of your customers they evaluate the LTA or try to push out? And are you seeing your competitors are giving rebates even cutting the price for some commodity products like LCD driver IC. And then I will have some follow-up questions.

祝賀你取得了很好的成績。我有幾個後續問題。因此，首先，在循環辯論中，我了解該公司擁有出色的專業技術，可能 70% 都被 LT 覆蓋，等等。但是，對，仍然有 20%、30% 的業務暴露於商品市場。於是就有了使用LCD驅動[IC CAD]的研究。那麼傑森，你有沒有看到他們評估長期協議或試圖推出的任何客戶？您是否看到您的競爭對手正在給予回扣，甚至降低 LCD 驅動器 IC 等一些商品的價格。然後我會有一些後續問題。

Sure. We touched the LTI earlier. Like I said, we -- both our customers and us treat this LTA very seriously. So I think we're working very closely to navigate through this contractual obligations. So at this moment, I think we've honored the commitments for now. And despite there are some market noise and turbulence, but LTA is still intact. If it does come to a time that we need to revisit and we definitely work closely with our customer. But as a background, our LTA discussion traction actually continue because there is compensation and discussion in our P3 conversation. So it's in our projection, our LTA number actually is going upward, not downward even with some -- the recent headwinds from some of the segments, like you mentioned. Going back to the ASP pressure, first of all, we usually don't comment about our peers' pricing strategy. Our ASP reflects our value proposition and our relevance in the supply chain, like I said, while our pricing remains firm in Q3, and we are able to navigate the market volatility via product mix adjustments and customer portfolio diversification without resorting to other measures. So we are guiding the Q3 with the first ASP projection as well as the full loading result projection. So we have to counter what the market is, but not at this current point, our ASP will remain firm.

當然。我們之前接觸了 LTI。就像我說的，我們——我們的客戶和我們都非常認真地對待這個 LTA。因此，我認為我們正在密切合作以完成這項合同義務。所以在這一刻，我認為我們現在已經兌現了承諾。而且儘管存在一些市場噪音和動盪，但LTA仍然完好無損。如果確實到了需要重新審視的時候，我們肯定會與客戶密切合作。但作為背景，我們的 LTA 討論牽引力實際上仍在繼續，因為我們的 P3 對話中有補償和討論。因此，在我們的預測中，我們的 LTA 數量實際上正在上升，而不是下降，即使有一些——最近來自某些細分市場的逆風，就像你提到的那樣。回到 ASP 壓力，首先，我們通常不對同行的定價策略發表評論。正如我所說，我們的 ASP 反映了我們的價值主張和我們在供應鏈中的相關性，而我們的定價在第三季度保持堅挺，我們能夠通過產品組合調整和客戶組合多樣化來應對市場波動，而無需採取其他措施。所以我們用第一個 ASP 投影和滿載結果投影來指導 Q3。所以我們必須應對市場是什麼，但不是在目前這一點上，我們的平均售價將保持堅挺。

But I guess my problem is that I understand you try to sell the value, right? But if you look at, again, the LCD driver IC, your customers' margin keep going down. And next year, probably their margin will fall to like a pre-COVID level, right, maybe 20%, 30%. So obviously, that is not a value, right? I mean, on your customers' margin, their margins are shrinking. So if that is the case, I really concerned that customers may need to choose lower cost foundry capacity. It's not just limited to LCD driver IC but also PMIC other commodity sector. So what would be your reaction? I know this year could be fine, but next year, if there's a commodity capacity, your industry peer's prices on average 10%, 20% below yours, what would be your strategy?

但我想我的問題是我理解你試圖出售價值，對吧？但是，如果您再看一下 LCD 驅動器 IC，您的客戶利潤會不斷下降。明年，他們的利潤率可能會下降到 COVID 之前的水平，對，可能是 20%、30%。很明顯，這不是一個值，對吧？我的意思是，就你客戶的利潤而言，他們的利潤正在縮小。所以如果是這樣的話，我真的很擔心客戶可能需要選擇成本更低的代工產能。它不僅限於LCD驅動IC，還包括PMIC其他商品領域。那麼你會有什麼反應呢？我知道今年可能還好，但是明年，如果有商品產能，你的同行價格平均比你低10%，比你低20%，你的策略是什麼？

Well, I mean, maybe we should take a look at this issue from a different perspective. Over the past few years, we have been continuously taking steps to significantly enhance our customer stickiness through highly differentiated and customer process solution, referring to your specialty technology for instance. And along with our manufacturing capability to enlarge our preferred source with a global leading customer, along with the LTA for our long-term mutual commitment across very diversified market segment. So during this downturn, the cyclical downturn, we will be able to minimize the business impact through one adjustment through various market segments. If there are some weaker segments and we hopefully will be able to compensate it through a stronger segment. Some of the single source or product, we actually work with customers through approving modulation. And in some of the multiple sourcing, we actually do -- we do gain foundry share as well. So while we're executing those, we can help our loading maybe through this cyclical period. And hopefully, we can continue maintaining a very healthy loading. So they are -- we have to address this fundamentally. The -- with the diversified customer portfolio and aligning to a megatrend usually can help us to mitigate that to a certain extent. And I understand they're going to be challenges for some segments, but hopefully, that if within our own capability will support us to our max. But at the same time, we -- our original plan is to align to the mega trend with a very diversified customer portfolio and to mitigate that approach. So it definitely is not our goal to continue on that path. So we are executing our plan set out a few years ago. And while the downturn comes, and we will exempt those results? And maybe if there's more development, we will update you in the next quarter.

好吧，我的意思是，也許我們應該從不同的角度來看待這個問題。在過去的幾年裡，我們一直在不斷採取措施，通過高度差異化的客戶流程解決方案來顯著提高我們的客戶粘性，例如您的專業技術。隨著我們的製造能力擴大我們與全球領先客戶的首選來源，以及 LTA，我們在非常多元化的細分市場中長期相互承諾。所以在這個低迷時期，週期性低迷時期，我們將能夠通過各個細分市場的一次調整，將業務影響降到最低。如果有一些較弱的部分，我們希望能夠通過更強大的部分來彌補它。一些單一的來源或產品，我們實際上是通過批准調製與客戶合作的。在一些多重採購中，我們實際上是這樣做的——我們也確實獲得了代工份額。因此，當我們執行這些操作時，我們可以幫助我們在這個週期性期間加載。希望我們可以繼續保持非常健康的負載。所以他們是——我們必須從根本上解決這個問題。 - 擁有多元化的客戶組合併與大趨勢保持一致通常可以幫助我們在一定程度上緩解這種情況。而且我知道它們將成為某些細分市場的挑戰，但希望，如果在我們自己的能力範圍內，我們將最大限度地支持我們。但與此同時，我們 - 我們最初的計劃是通過非常多元化的客戶組合來適應大趨勢，並緩解這種做法。因此，繼續走這條路絕對不是我們的目標。所以我們正在執行幾年前製定的計劃。當經濟低迷到來時，我們會免除這些結果嗎？也許如果有更多的發展，我們會在下個季度更新你。

So just some quick yes or no question. I appreciate your previous answers. So first of all CapEx next year, do you think you will be flat or coming down.

所以只是一些快速的是或否的問題。我很欣賞你以前的回答。所以首先明年的資本支出，你認為你會持平還是下降。

No, we don't have the exact number as you recall, there was a question about even this year's CapEx number. So it's very difficult to give you a clear pinpoint answer yet. But we do have this 6 projects coming along, which is total cost is about TWD 5 billion to TWD 6 billion. And for Singapore, the P3 is also another TWD 5 billion also. So these 2 projects alone is around TWD 10 billion and it's going to spread out in this year and the following 3 years, something like that.

不，我們沒有你記得的確切數字，甚至今年的資本支出數字也有問題。所以現在很難給你一個明確的、準確的答案。但我們確實有這6個項目，總成本約為50億至60億新台幣。而對於新加坡來說，P3也是另外50億新台幣。所以僅這兩個項目就在100億新台幣左右，並且將在今年和接下來的3年內展開，類似的。

And server chip, what kind of server chip are you making, may I know some prototype?

還有服務器芯片，你做什麼樣的服務器芯片，我可以知道一些原型嗎？

Again, I didn't quite get that question. Server Yes, because Jason, you mentioned that the server networking or kind of a strong segment that can offset the consumer weakness. So I'm just curious about server chip because I think they include DRAM, CPU, some higher networking. But I just don't want to realize you have exposure to server segment as well.

再說一次，我不太明白這個問題。服務器 是的，因為 Jason，您提到了服務器網絡或某種強大的細分市場，可以抵消消費者的弱點。所以我只是對服務器芯片很好奇，因為我認為它們包括 DRAM、CPU 和一些更高的網絡。但我只是不想意識到你也接觸過服務器領域。

It was the companion this within the server sector. So it's more a subset of that..

它是服務器領域的伙伴。所以它更像是其中的一個子集..

And as Laura asked about the 14-nanometer FinFET. That is also one of the key feedback I'm getting from the U.S. investors. They are concerned about your long-term developments. They are very happy with your execution, your strategy on the CapEx discipline. But talking about the future, do you think about your 14 nanometer FinFET structure is competitive from a technology perspective. Because 20-nanometer, UNC is very famous poly-SiON, right, very competitive. But FinFET, do you think that there is going to be competitive as well? We are not talking about just purely from a technology perspective.

正如 Laura 詢問 14 納米 FinFET 的情況一樣。這也是我從美國投資者那裡得到的主要反饋之一。他們關心你的長期發展。他們對您的執行以及您在資本支出領域的策略感到非常滿意。但談及未來，你認為你的 14 納米 FinFET 結構從技術角度來說是否具有競爭力。因為20納米，UNC是非常有名的poly-SiON，對，很有競爭力。但是 FinFET，您認為還會有競爭力嗎？我們不只是從技術角度談論。

Well, it's our belief that our solution will be very robust and competitive. And in 28, it's actually not just poly-SiON it's actually both poly-SiON and High-K as well as the 22 nanometer because they are in there. But for the 14 FinFET we also believe that we can deliver that. And we just have to align with the suitable market and the customer and for the CapEx deployment. Again, I stated earlier is within our focus but it's in sequence of the priorities.

好吧，我們相信我們的解決方案將非常強大且具有競爭力。在 28 中，它實際上不僅僅是 poly-SiON，它實際上是 poly-SiON 和 High-K 以及 22 納米，因為它們都在其中。但對於 14 FinFET，我們也相信我們可以實現這一目標。我們只需要與合適的市場和客戶以及資本支出部署保持一致。同樣，我之前說過是我們的重點，但它是按優先級順序排列的。

Next question, Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

下一個問題，摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

First of all, Jason, I think you were kind enough to talk a little bit about next year's outlook. Do you are working -- are you working with the assumption right now that the foundry industry will still be growing next year? Or you think that we move -- have a decline like we have had in the past down cycles when semiconductor industries go through a down cycle, foundry industry also declines. Do you think it could be different this time and foundry industry will still be growing next year? That's my first question. Could you give a bit more color on that?

首先，傑森，我認為你很友好地談了一點明年的展望。您是否正在工作——您現在是否假設明年鑄造行業仍將增長？或者你認為我們採取了行動——就像我們在過去的下行週期中一樣，當半導體行業經歷下行週期時，代工行業也會下滑。您認為這次會有所不同，明年鑄造行業仍會增長嗎？這是我的第一個問題。你能再給點顏色嗎？

Well, I mean, we do. And after 2 very strong years in the semi market, we call it super cycle. And we -- and given the recent turbulence and disruption from the market and after this rising macro uncertainties, higher inflationary cost issue, we still foresee the foundry industry growth in 2023 will be more moderate, but it is going to be another growth year, but it's going to be very minimum and it's going to be a more moderate.

好吧，我的意思是，我們做到了。在半成品市場經歷了非常強勁的 2 年之後，我們稱之為超級週期。而且我們——鑑於最近市場的動盪和混亂，以及在宏觀不確定性上升、通脹成本上升問題之後，我們仍然預計 2023 年的鑄造行業增長將更加溫和，但這將是另一個增長年，但它會非常小，而且會更加溫和。

How do you think about -- I think different people have asked about pricing, but do you think there is something that has fundamentally changed because we saw this when pricing goes down in a downturn, we have seen that several times. So what is giving you that confidence -- is it confidence in UMC specifically? Or do you think that something has changed in the industry itself that gives you the confidence? Because it seems like you're suggesting that pricing is slightly to largely be stable in a downturn and potentially upward biased in a normal to upturn kind of scenario. So just wanted to understand your process on pricing generally as we get into the down go?

您如何看待-我認為不同的人詢問了定價問題，但是您是否認為有一些事情發生了根本性的變化，因為我們在低迷時期價格下降時看到了這種情況，我們已經多次看到這種情況。那麼是什麼給了你這種信心——特別是對 UMC 的信心嗎？或者您是否認為行業本身發生了一些變化，讓您有信心？因為您似乎在暗示價格在經濟低迷時期略微穩定，而在正常到好轉的情況下可能會向上偏向。所以只是想在我們進入下行階段時了解您的定價流程？

Well, I mean, I can't comment about the industry. And for UMC, our ASP positions, we value long-term partnership over the near-term cyclical. So usually, it's not about the demand and supply situation we think the baseline of the ASP reflects what we can provide in terms of value proposition. We -- then how can we -- and how can we demonstrate that value proposition is through a differentiated technology offering and your manufacturing capability. And you're confident and you're building the confidence and trust with your partners that you are a reliable source. And so they leverage you more -- or they use you or engage you as the preferred foundry source. So we have learned our lesson in the past. When you have multiple sourcing nice to have a position and you (inaudible) your ASP position. So we want to be relevant and we are continuing to increase our relevance in the industry along with our customers. And along with our capacity value to provide a long-term growth to them, and we hope they do see that value in us seeing the change for our market and ASP position. So it's a bit of a contractual, but however, that is the direction that we're marching to.

好吧，我的意思是，我不能評論這個行業。對於聯華電子，我們的 ASP 職位，我們重視長期合作夥伴關係而不是短期週期性。所以通常情況下，我們認為 ASP 的基線反映了我們在價值主張方面可以提供的東西，這與供需情況無關。我們——那麼我們如何——以及我們如何通過差異化的技術產品和您的製造能力證明價值主張。你有信心，你正在與你的合作夥伴建立信心和信任，你是一個可靠的來源。所以他們更多地利用你——或者他們使用你或聘請你作為首選的代工廠源。所以我們已經吸取了過去的教訓。當您有多個採購時，很高興有一個職位，而您（聽不清）您的 ASP 職位。因此，我們希望具有相關性，並且我們將與客戶一起繼續提高我們在行業中的相關性。以及我們為他們提供長期增長的能力價值，我們希望他們確實看到我們看到我們的市場和 ASP 地位變化的價值。所以這有點像合同，但是，這就是我們前進的方向。

So maybe one more question on that front. I think you are definitely telling us that you're going to be a lot more disciplined this time around than the past. Obviously, we can't expect that from every company. So let's say, the downturn is a little bit more intense than what we expect today and pricing starts to come under pressure for certain nodes. Will UMC stay away from pricing reaction and you're willing to take some utilization flat -- is that how you think about planning for this down cycle? Or that's still up for debate?

所以也許在這方面還有一個問題。我想你肯定是在告訴我們，這次你會比過去更有紀律。顯然，我們不能指望每家公司都這樣做。因此，假設經濟低迷比我們今天預期的要激烈一些，並且某些節點的定價開始面臨壓力。 UMC 是否會遠離定價反應，並且您願意採取一些利用率持平——這就是您對規劃這個下行週期的看法嗎？還是還有待商榷？

Well, I mean the market is dynamic, and our operation will have a principle, but we will -- we're not going to be naive. And as a management, we will stay paranoid about the market uncertainty. So we will react to the market changes. And we will continue monitoring the market situation and respond to it. And giving the market dynamic. So we will definitely do that accordingly. If you -- we kind of touched about the resilience about how can we help to continue maintaining healthy loading? But at the same time, we do look at this CapEx adjustment issue, and if it's needed. At this point, we maintain our confidence in the megatrend long-term growth. Since this is a long-term strategy. And at this moment, there's no adjustment has not impacted our long-term plan, so there's no adjustment at this moment. If you're referring to other cost control efforts, I can assure you, we have been relentlessly pursuing a cost reduction activity and elevating our line productivity and in production efficiency. And again, all these measures will be in place we will continue monitoring the current market situation in response to that diligently and accordingly.

嗯，我的意思是市場是動態的，我們的運作會有一個原則，但我們會——我們不會天真。作為管理層，我們將對市場的不確定性保持偏執。因此，我們將對市場變化做出反應。我們將繼續關注市場情況並做出應對。並賦予市場活力。所以我們一定會相應地做到這一點。如果您 - 我們有點觸及關於我們如何幫助繼續保持健康負載的彈性？但與此同時，我們確實會考慮這個資本支出調整問題，以及是否需要。在這一點上，我們對大趨勢的長期增長保持信心。因為這是一個長期戰略。而目前，沒有調整沒有影響我們的長期計劃，所以目前沒有調整。如果您指的是其他成本控制工作，我可以向您保證，我們一直在不懈地追求降低成本的活動，並提高我們的生產線生產力和生產效率。同樣，所有這些措施都將到位，我們將繼續密切關注當前的市場情況，並相應地對此作出回應。

And next question, Frank Lee of HSBC.

下一個問題是匯豐銀行的 Frank Lee。

I just wanted to clarify my first question on your overall utilization because you just got, I think, for utilization to remain full through 3Q at 100%. But I guess when we look at some of your competitors who have a very high exposure to 8-inch foundry, the utilization rates are starting to come off mainly because of driver actually being weaker. But I think UMC still has about 40% of your capacity is tied to 8-inch. So are we still -- are we seeing 100% utilization even on 8 inch as well? And if so, can you give us a bit of color like what applications or products that you've been able to fill that with?

我只是想澄清我關於您的整體利用率的第一個問題，因為我認為您剛剛獲得了利用率，以在第三季度保持 100% 的利用率。但我想，當我們查看一些對 8 英寸代工有很高曝光率的競爭對手時，利用率開始下降，主要是因為驅動器實際上較弱。但我認為聯電仍然有大約 40% 的容量是綁在 8 英寸上的。那麼我們是否仍然 - 即使在 8 英寸上我們也看到 100% 的利用率？如果是這樣，您能否給我們一些顏色，例如您能夠填充哪些應用程序或產品？

Sure. Our 8-inch loading remains 100% in Q3. After we're swapping some of the allocation from notebook, TV, smartphone to auto and IoT space. Some of our 8-inch fab utilization in Q4 may be impacted by the change in customer product mix, given the available capacity capability that we have. Nonetheless, we do expect 8-inch loading will be maintained at a healthy level.

當然。我們的 8 英寸負載在第三季度保持 100%。在我們將部分分配從筆記本電腦、電視、智能手機轉移到汽車和物聯網空間之後。考慮到我們擁有的可用產能，我們在第四季度的一些 8 英寸晶圓廠利用率可能會受到客戶產品組合變化的影響。儘管如此，我們確實預計 8 英寸的負載將保持在健康水平。

And I guess my second question is autos, industrials, especially autos has been talked about as a major demand driver for foundry going forward, which was not so obvious in the past cycles. So as we look into the auto space, as you look at capacity expansion in the industry, is auto the main driver that we should be looking at, especially on the mature side. And if we see any slowdown or potential weakness in autos, is that a trigger that could lead to maybe a more cautious view on the CapEx spend going forward?

我想我的第二個問題是汽車、工業，尤其是汽車，被認為是未來鑄造廠的主要需求驅動力，這在過去的周期中並不那麼明顯。因此，當我們研究汽車領域時，當你看到行業的產能擴張時，汽車是我們應該關注的主要驅動力，尤其是在成熟方面。如果我們看到汽車出現任何放緩或潛在的疲軟，這是否可能導致對未來資本支出支出的看法更加謹慎？

Well, any dynamic from the marketplace, we will be alert and aware and act accordingly. So I mean, it's not limited with auto. But like you said, is auto is the segment that actually help compensating some of the weaker segment today, obviously, we'll pay more attention to it. But auto is not only the strong segment that we're seeing right now for us, we're also seeing some of the industrial and IoT space that help us mostly compensated for our Q3 loading. And we're working with customers closely monitoring their inventory level as well as the macro environment and for the outlook. And at this moment, the Q3 will remain healthy. I mean, fully loaded. For Q4, we project we will have a healthy loading. While we, like I mentioned, the pricing will remain firm for Q4, but we will provide an update for the Q4 in the next quarter conference because at this point, some of the turbulence and disruption is continued, right? So we just have to be cautious about it.

好吧，任何來自市場的動態，我們都會保持警惕和意識並採取相應的行動。所以我的意思是，它不僅限於自動。但是就像你說的那樣，汽車是實際上有助於補償今天一些較弱的部分的細分市場，顯然，我們會更加關注它。但汽車不僅是我們現在看到的強勁細分市場，我們還看到了一些工業和物聯網領域，這些領域主要幫助我們彌補了第三季度的負荷。我們正在與客戶密切合作，密切監控他們的庫存水平以及宏觀環境和前景。而此時，第三季度將保持健康。我的意思是，滿載而歸。對於第四季度，我們預計我們將有一個健康的負載。雖然我們，就像我提到的那樣，第四季度的定價將保持堅挺，但我們將在下一季度的會議上提供第四季度的更新，因為在這一點上，一些動盪和中斷仍在繼續，對吧？所以我們只需要對此保持謹慎。

And ladies and gentlemen, we thank you very much for all your questions. That concludes today's Q&A session. And I'll turn things over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

女士們，先生們，我們非常感謝你們提出的所有問題。今天的問答環節到此結束。我將把事情交給 UMC IR 負責人結束髮言。

Thank you for attending this conference today. We appreciate your questions. As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact umc@ -- ir@umc.com. Have a good day. Thank you.

感謝您參加今天的這次會議。我們感謝您的提問。與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時聯繫 umc@ -- ir@umc.com。祝你有美好的一天。謝謝你。

Thank you, Mr. Lin. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for second quarter 2022. Thank you for your participation in UMC's conference. There will be a webcast replay within 2 hours. Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors Event section. You may now disconnect. Goodbye.

謝謝你，林先生。女士們，先生們，我們 2022 年第二季度的會議到此結束。感謝您參加聯電的會議。 2小時內將進行網絡直播重播。請訪問“投資者活動”部分下的 www.umc.com。您現在可以斷開連接。再見。