聯華電子 (UMC) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to UMC's 2023 First Quarter Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) And for your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet. Webcast replay will be available within 2 hours after the conference is finished. And please visit our website, www.umc.com, under the Investor Relations, Investors Events section. And now I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations at UMC. Mr. Lin, please begin.

歡迎大家參加聯華電子 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，此電話會議正在通過互聯網進行現場直播。會議結束後 2 小時內將提供網絡直播重播。請訪問我們的網站 www.umc.com，在“投資者關係”、“投資者活動”部分下。現在我想介紹一下聯華電子投資者關係主管Michael Lin先生。林先生，請開始。

Thank you, and welcome to UMC's conference call for the first quarter of 2023. I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, the President of UMC; and Mr. Chi-Tung Liu, the CFO of UMC. In a moment, we will hear our CFO present the first quarter financial results followed by our President's key message to address UMC's focus and second quarter 2023 guidance. Once our President and CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A section. UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investors Financial section.

謝謝大家，歡迎來到聯電 2023 年第一季度的電話會議。聯電總裁 Jason Wang 先生也加入了我的行列；以及聯電首席財務官劉志東先生。稍後，我們將聽到我們的首席財務官介紹第一季度的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁針對 UMC 的重點和 2023 年第二季度指導的關鍵信息。一旦我們的總裁和首席財務官完成他們的發言，就會有一個問答部分。 UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的“投資者財務”部分找到。

During this conference, we may make forward-looking statements. based on management's current expectations and beliefs. These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risk that may be beyond the company's control. For a more detailed description of these risks and uncertainties, please refer to our recent and subsequent filings with the SEC and the ROC security authorities. During this conference, you may view our financial presentation material, which is being broadcast live through the Internet.

在本次會議期間，我們可能會做出前瞻性陳述。基於管理層當前的期望和信念。這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定因素的影響，這些風險和不確定因素可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。有關這些風險和不確定性的更詳細描述，請參閱我們最近和隨後向美國證券交易委員會和中華民國安全當局提交的文件。在這次會議期間，您可以觀看我們的財務演示材料，這些材料正在通過互聯網進行現場直播。

Now I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Chi-Tung Liu, to discuss UMC's first quarter 2023 financial results.

現在我想介紹聯華電子的首席財務官劉志東先生，討論聯華電子2023年第一季度的財務業績。

Thank you, Michael. I would like to go through the first quarter 2023 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded or viewed in real time from our website.

謝謝你，邁克爾。我想瀏覽一下 2023 年第一季度投資者會議的演示材料，這些材料可以從我們的網站上實時下載或查看。

Starting on Page 4. The first quarter of 2023, consolidated revenue was TWD 54.2 billion, with gross margin at 35.5%. The net income attributed to the stockholder of the parent was TWD 16.2 billion, and earnings per ordinary shares were TWD 1.31. Wafer shipments in this quarter come at 1,826,000 8-inch equivalent wafers which was a decline of 17.5% quarter-over-quarter, which also fall in the better end of our previous guidance of 17% to 19% decline for the first quarter. Utilization in first quarter is as we guided around 70%.

從第4頁開始。2023年第一季度，綜合收入為新台幣542億元，毛利率為35.5%。歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為新台幣162億元，普通股每股收益為新台幣1.31元。本季度的晶圓出貨量為 1,826,000 片 8 英寸等效晶圓，環比下降 17.5%，也低於我們此前預測的第一季度下降 17% 至 19% 的較好水平。第一季度的利用率是我們指導的 70% 左右。

For Page 5, the sequential comparison, revenue declined 20.1% and to TWD 54.2 billion. Other than the 17.5% wafer shipment decline, there's also a negative impact of 3% plus impact from the ForEx due to NT dollar appreciation. Gross margin rate was 35.5%, which is a 34% decline to TWD 19.2 billion. Operating expenses was lower than the level of Q4 last year at TWD 5.78 billion. This is a typical first quarter seasonal factor. So we do expect this number to increase in the second quarter of 2023. Nonoperating income total reached TWD 4.64 billion, which is quite a significant improvement from the fourth quarter of last year, mainly due to the recovery in the stock market, which is we mark-to-market for our holdings in those portfolios. And net income is TWD 15.38 billion and net income attributable to the shareholders of the parent is TWD 16.1 billion with a net income margin of 29.9%. EPS is TWD 1.31 for the first quarter of 2023.

對於第 5 頁，按順序比較，收入下降 20.1% 至新台幣 542 億元。除了 17.5% 的晶圓出貨量下降外，還有 3% 的負面影響加上新台幣升值帶來的外匯影響。毛利率為 35.5%，下跌 34% 至新台幣 192 億元。營業費用為新台幣 57.8 億元，低於去年第四季度的水平。這是典型的第一季度季節性因素。所以我們確實預計這個數字在 2023 年第二季度會增加。營業外收入總額達到新台幣 46.4 億元，這比去年第四季度有相當大的改善，主要是由於股市的複蘇，這是我們我們在這些投資組合中的持股按市值計價。淨利潤為153.8億元新台幣，歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為161億元新台幣，淨利潤率為29.9%。 2023 年第一季度每股收益為新台幣 1.31 元。

On a year-over-year comparison on Page 6, revenue declined 14.5% and net income declined by 18.3%. So the first quarter of 2022 was TWD 1.61 in EPS, and this quarter is as mentioned, TWD 1.31 for the first quarter of 2023. So on Page 7, cash remained nearly unchanged around TWD 171 billion. Due to the continuous CapEx, we can -- we have seen our total assets increased to TWD 549.6 billion.

在第 6 頁的同比比較中，收入下降了 14.5%，淨收入下降了 18.3%。因此，2022 年第一季度的每股收益為 1.61 新台幣，如前所述，本季度為 2023 年第一季度的 1.31 新台幣。因此在第 7 頁上，現金在 1710 億新台幣左右幾乎保持不變。由於持續的資本支出，我們可以——我們已經看到我們的總資產增加到 5496 億新台幣。

On Page 8, our blended ASP for 8-inch wafer equivalent has inched up in Q1 '23. For Page 9, our geographic breakdown. For revenue, Asia showed a bigger decline from 54% in the previous quarter to 50% in the first quarter and every other region has increased sequentially. And for Page 10, IDM has shown a stronger growth in the first quarter. Now the percentage of revenue reached 23% when tablets represent about 77% of our total revenue.

在第 8 頁，我們的 8 英寸晶圓當量的混合 ASP 在 23 年第一季度有所上升。對於第 9 頁，我們的地理細分。對於收入，亞洲從上一季度的 54% 下降到第一季度的 50%，其他所有地區都環比增長。對於第 10 頁，IDM 在第一季度表現出更強勁的增長。現在，當平板電腦占我們總收入的 77% 左右時，收入百分比達到 23%。

In terms of segment breakdown on Page 11, this is quite meaningful growth in the other segment, which was mainly driven by the auto segment when computer and consumer and also communication are all showing some decline in percentage of revenue. On Page 12, our revenue for 14-nanometer technology and below represent around 41% of our total revenue, although 28 and 22 nanometers still somewhat remain unchanged at around 26%, 40-nanometer show about 2% decline from 17% to 15%.

就第 11 頁的細分市場而言，這在另一個細分市場中是相當有意義的增長，這主要是由汽車細分市場推動的，當時計算機和消費者以及通信都顯示出收入百分比有所下降。在第 12 頁，我們 14 納米及以下技術的收入占我們總收入的 41% 左右，儘管 28 和 22 納米仍保持在 26% 左右不變，40 納米從 17% 下降約 2% 至 15% .

On Page 13, Q1 2023 was the lowest point in terms of available capacity, mainly due to the annual maintenance scheduled for selected sites. Quarter 2, you will go back to the normal. And also on top of that, will be P6, our Tainan Fab expansion will start to kick in, and we can see the capacity increase for Fab 12A. So overall, we will see a low single-digit increase in our available capacity from quarter 2 2023.

在第 13 頁上，2023 年第一季度是可用容量的最低點，這主要是由於選定站點的年度維護計劃。第 2 季度，您將恢復正常。最重要的是，將是 P6，我們的台南工廠擴建將開始啟動，我們可以看到 Fab 12A 的產能增加。因此，總體而言，從 2023 年第二季度開始，我們的可用產能將出現低個位數增長。

On Page 14, our annual budget for CapEx remain unchanged, around $3 billion. And it's going to be a little bit front-end loaded in the first half and 90% will be related to 12-inch expansion and 10% is more related to 8-inch capacity.

在第 14 頁，我們的年度資本支出預算保持不變，約為 30 億美元。而且上半年會有一點前端加載，90%與12英寸擴展有關，10%與8英寸容量有關。

So the above is a summary of UMC results for first quarter of 2023. More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website. I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Jason Wang.

以上是聯華電子 2023 年第一季度的業績摘要。更多詳情請參閱已發佈在我們網站上的報告。我現在將把電話轉給聯華電子總裁 Jason Wang 先生。

Thank you, Chi-Tung. Good evening, everyone. Here, I would like to share UMC's first quarter results.

謝謝你，志東。各位晚上好。在這裡，我想分享一下聯華電子第一季度的業績。

In the first quarter of 2023, our business was impacted by sluggish wafer demand as the customer continue to digest elevated inventory levels. In line with the guidance previously provided, wafer shipments fell 17.5% quarter-over-quarter and utilization rate dropped to 70%, while average selling prices stayed firm during the quarter. Better in a less favorable foreign exchange rate, revenue in the first quarter fell 20.1% quarter-over-quarter. Despite lower utilization, gross margin remained firm at 35.5%, reflecting improved structural profitability and optimized the product mix. Although demand weakened across major end markets, our automotive and industrial segment posted growth during the quarter. Automotive sales, in particular, accounted for 17% of overall first quarter revenue. While this partially reflects decline in other segments, we expect automotive to remain a significant revenue contributor and growth -- key growth driver for UMC going forward as the IC content in car continue to increase driven by electrification and alternatives driving.

2023 年第一季度，我們的業務受到晶圓需求低迷的影響，因為客戶繼續消化高庫存水平。與之前提供的指引一致，晶圓出貨量環比下降 17.5%，利用率下降至 70%，而本季度平均售價保持堅挺。在匯率不太有利的情況下，第一季度收入環比下降 20.1%。儘管利用率較低，但毛利率仍保持在 35.5%，反映了結構性盈利能力的改善和產品結構的優化。儘管主要終端市場的需求減弱，但我們的汽車和工業部門在本季度實現了增長。尤其是汽車銷售佔第一季度總收入的 17%。雖然這部分反映了其他領域的下滑，但我們預計汽車仍將是重要的收入貢獻者和增長——這是聯電未來的主要增長動力，因為汽車中的 IC 含量在電氣化和替代駕駛的推動下繼續增加。

Entering the second quarter of 2023, we expect customers' inventory correction to linger given the softness in overall end-market demand. As a result, our wafer shipment will be flat this quarter. Meanwhile, the company continues to implement strict cost control measures to ensure our profitability remains intact through near-term cyclicality. Going forward, we believe our strategy of focusing on the development of a differentiated solution across numerous larger and specialty technology platforms such as EIV, RF-SOI, BCD will help us secure future business and expand our presence in the IC industry. While positioning for the future business growth, UMC is also committed to maintain a high dividend payout ratio. In Q1, the Board of Directors proposed to distribute a cash dividend of approximately TWD 3.60 per share, subject to shareholders' approval.

進入 2023 年第二季度，鑑於整體終端市場需求疲軟，我們預計客戶的庫存調整將持續存在。因此，本季度我們的晶圓出貨量將持平。同時，公司繼續實施嚴格的成本控制措施，以確保我們的盈利能力在短期週期性期間保持不變。展望未來，我們相信我們專注於跨眾多大型和專業技術平台（如 EIV、RF-SOI、BCD）開發差異化解決方案的戰略將幫助我們確保未來業務並擴大我們在 IC 行業的影響力。聯電在定位未來業務增長的同時，也致力維持高派息率。第一季度，董事會提議派發現金股息每股約新台幣3.60元，但須經股東批准。

Now let's move on to the second quarter 2023 guidance. Our wafer shipment will remain flat. ASP in U.S. dollar will remain flat. Gross profit margin will be in the mid-30% range. Capacity utilization rate will be in the low 70% range. Our 2023 cash-based CapEx will be budgeted at USD 3 billion.

現在讓我們繼續討論 2023 年第二季度的指導方針。我們的晶圓出貨量將保持平穩。以美元計價的平均售價將保持平穩。毛利率將在30%左右。產能利用率將在70%左右。我們 2023 年基於現金的資本支出預算為 30 億美元。

That concludes my comments. Thank you all for your attention. Now we are ready for questions.

我的評論到此結束。謝謝大家的關注。現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions) And our first question is coming from Randy Abrams, Crédit Suisse.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自瑞士信貸銀行的 Randy Abrams。

Okay. Yes. I wanted to ask the first question. It looks like on your guidance, second quarter is stabilizing. Could you actually give a view -- an initial view into second half? How you see the where you cite the slow demand and it's keeping the inventory digestion a bit slower? Do you expect those factors to spill into second half? So if you could give an initial view on second half. And in that context, if you have an update to, I think last quarter, you had foundry down mid-single digits in your own TAM down low teens. But if you have an update on that full year view factoring how you're seeing the second half at this stage?

好的。是的。我想問第一個問題。看起來在你的指導下，第二季度正在穩定。你能給出一個觀點——對下半場的初步看法嗎？你如何看待你提到需求緩慢的地方，這讓庫存消化速度變慢了一點？你預計這些因素會蔓延到下半年嗎？所以，如果你能給出下半年的初步看法。在這種情況下，如果你有更新，我認為上個季度，你已經在你自己的 TAM 中降低了中個位數。但是，如果你有關於你在這個階段如何看待下半年的全年觀點的更新？

Sure, Randy. Looking into the second half, while we foresee the furnace in 22 and 28-nanometer demand, we have not seen -- we have not yet seen kind of a strong recovery in the end market yet, okay? And given the weaker than anticipated end-market environment, we have seen the pace of the inventory dejection moving slower than expected. So we have not seen any sign of a strong recovery for the second half yet.

當然，蘭迪。展望下半年，雖然我們預見到 22 和 28 納米需求的爐子，但我們還沒有看到——我們還沒有看到終端市場出現強勁復甦，好嗎？鑑於終端市場環境弱於預期，我們看到庫存下降的速度低於預期。因此，我們還沒有看到下半年有任何強勁復甦的跡象。

For the outlook, the 2023, we estimate a semi forecast will further decline from low single digit to a mid-single digit year-over-year for the foundry. And we anticipate it well worse than previous quarter estimate of a mid-single digit. Now we're changing to a decline of high single digit year-over-year.

對於 2023 年的前景，我們估計鑄造廠的半預測將從低個位數進一步下降到中個位數。我們預計它比上一季度的中等個位數估計要差得多。現在我們正在改變為同比下降高個位數。

Okay. And do you have your -- do you have an estimate for -- I think I have at your TAM last quarter was low teens. I don't know if you have an update on -- because I think that excludes the advanced products that you don't address.

好的。你有你的 - 你有沒有估計 - 我想我上個季度在你的 TAM 是低十幾歲。我不知道你是否有更新——因為我認為這不包括你沒有解決的高級產品。

Right. I mean given the UMC's end-market witness, we still hope to minimize the UMC exposure to be in line with our addressable note while preserving structural profitability. With the worse than -- the worst outlook than we predicted from last quarter, we do see that number will actually probably in a larger bid, yes.

正確的。我的意思是，鑑於 UMC 的終端市場見證，我們仍然希望將 UMC 的敞口降至最低，以符合我們的可尋址說明，同時保持結構性盈利能力。比我們上個季度預測的更糟糕的前景，我們確實看到這個數字實際上可能會出價更高，是的。

Okay. And for the applications, the relative strength was the auto and probably alongside the IDM, do you see that remaining strong area continuing into second half? Or is it also -- like how do you see the inventory buildup after that strength? And how do you see the sustainability of shipments to that channel?

好的。對於應用程序，相對強勢的是汽車，可能與 IDM 並駕齊驅，您認為剩餘的強勢領域會持續到下半年嗎？或者它也是 - 比如你如何看待這種力量之後的庫存增加？您如何看待向該渠道發貨的可持續性？

Well, first of all, like I said, we haven't seen any strong recovery and all segment will remain flat from Q2. For the automotive, the replenishment in automotive segment may have picked in Q1 2023 after the strong growth in the past 2 quarters. Longer term, we expect automotive business will continue to grow on an annual basis.

好吧，首先，就像我說的，我們沒有看到任何強勁的複蘇，所有細分市場從第二季度開始將保持平穩。對於汽車，在過去兩個季度的強勁增長之後，汽車領域的補貨可能會在 2023 年第一季度有所回升。從長遠來看，我們預計汽車業務將繼續逐年增長。

Okay. Implying has peaked. Is that implying the business has peaked because there is content growth, so the restocking replenishment peak? But do you think that's also kind of a comment on that segment, at least for the near term may have also peaked?

好的。暗示已經達到頂峰。這是否意味著業務已經達到頂峰，因為有內容增長，所以補貨高峰期？但你是否認為這也是對該細分市場的一種評論，至少在短期內也可能達到頂峰？

Yes. Yes. Yes, for the -- if we look at the auto outlook, the -- while we anticipate our automotive business will continue in a strong momentum and outpace the CAGR for the worldwide automotive semi industry projection. And as a goal, we'll probably reach mid-teens as a percentage of the revenue for this year, okay? So we still think this is a -- it's going to be a growth driver for us. But if you look at the near-term replenishment momentum, it probably peaked in the Q1, yes.

是的。是的。是的，對於 - 如果我們看一下汽車前景， - 雖然我們預計我們的汽車業務將繼續保持強勁勢頭，並超過全球汽車半工業預測的複合年增長率。作為一個目標，我們今年的收入百分比可能會達到十幾歲，好嗎？所以我們仍然認為這是 - 它將成為我們的增長動力。但如果你看一下近期的補貨勢頭，它可能在第一季度達到頂峰，是的。

Okay. Yes. It sounds like it was 17%. So 15%, I guess that implies a bit lower percent of sales. Okay. So the last thing I want to touch just the 28-nanometer, it looks like it declined a bit more than corporate average in the first quarter, so a little bit over the 20%. Could you discuss the view just on that note because I think in the remarks you mentioned it seems like it will be relatively tighter. So how do you see 28-nanometer relatively faring? And if I could ask you just competitive landscape for -- like you've done very well on the high voltage and the OLED drivers, how you see from like your Taiwan and China rivals competition there?

好的。是的。聽起來好像是 17%。所以 15%，我想這意味著銷售額的百分比要低一些。好的。所以我最後想說的就是 28 納米，它在第一季度的下降幅度似乎超過了公司平均水平，略高於 20%。你能不能就那個說明討論一下這個觀點，因為我認為在你提到的評論中它似乎會相對更嚴格。那麼您如何看待 28 納米的相對錶現？如果我可以問你競爭格局——比如你在高壓和 OLED 驅動器方面做得很好，你如何看待台灣和中國的競爭對手在那裡的競爭？

Let me see -- that is a 2 different parts.

讓我看看——這是兩個不同的部分。

Two parts -- yes, sorry, two parts.

兩部分——是的，抱歉，兩部分。

First of all, we don't think the 28 decline rate is higher than corporate average, it's probably in line. So maybe we can provide you with a detailed calculation later on. But our outlook for 28-nanometer actually is one of the better segments. Maybe Jason will comment further on that.

首先，我們不認為 28 家公司的跌幅高於企業平均水平，這可能是符合的。所以也許我們稍後可以為您提供詳細的計算。但我們對 28 納米的展望實際上是更好的細分市場之一。或許 Jason 會就此進一步發表評論。

Yes. For the 28-nanometer loading -- well, first of all, like Chi-Tung said, we probably can provide you more detail on that data. But in our view, the loading will gradually improve over the next few months and will soon exceed about 90% for the loadings. And the 28-nanometer application includes the OLED driver, DTV, WiFi 6 and 6E. And we actually foresee a furnace in 22 and 28 demands, which will be fulfilled with additional capacity come online as well. So we actually feel fairly confident about that. The -- you also mentioned about the competitive landscape as well, right?

是的。對於 28 納米負載——好吧，首先，就像 Chi-Tung 所說的，我們可能可以為您提供有關該數據的更多詳細信息。但我們認為，未來幾個月的裝載量將逐漸改善，並很快超過 90% 左右的裝載量。而28納米應用包括OLED驅動器、DTV、WiFi 6和6E。我們實際上預見了 22 台和 28 台爐子的需求，這些需求也將通過額外的產能來滿足。所以我們實際上對此感到相當有信心。 - 你也提到了競爭格局，對吧？

Yes. That was more on like the OLED driver part if like your Taiwan and China rivals are making inroads there.

是的。如果您的台灣和中國競爭對手正在那裡取得進展，那更像是 OLED 驅動器部分。

Well, I mean, for the 28, in general, we actually remain very confident with our 28 and 22 business. You're talking about the OLED particularly and for our OLED drivers, we believe we deliver much more superior power consumption performance area adventure compared to any industry peers. And so our leading position of 22 and 28 technology will be reflected in our market share in that driver space. And this will actually continue, yes.

好吧，我的意思是，對於 28 歲，總的來說，我們實際上對我們的 28 歲和 22 歲業務仍然非常有信心。您特別談到了 OLED，對於我們的 OLED 驅動器，我們相信與任何行業同行相比，我們在功耗性能方面的表現要出色得多。因此，我們在 22 和 28 技術方面的領先地位將反映在我們在該驅動程序領域的市場份額上。這實際上會繼續，是的。

Okay. Great. Good to see that area holding up well.

好的。偉大的。很高興看到該區域保持良好狀態。

And next question is from Brett Simpson, Arete Research.

下一個問題來自 Arete Research 的 Brett Simpson。

I wanted to ask about your recent extended LTA with Infineon. I think you announced this back in March, it was 40-nanometer. It looks quite a sizable agreement. Can you maybe talk more about this agreement and when it maybe starts to ramp up? And how should we think about the size of this deal?

我想問一下你們最近與英飛凌的 LTA 延長期。我想你在三月份宣布了這個，它是 40 納米。這看起來是一個相當大的協議。你能不能多談談這個協議以及它什麼時候開始增加？我們應該如何考慮這筆交易的規模？

Well, I mean, we typically don't comment specific on customers. But they are part of our auto market focus, and we will continue working with the key automotive semi supplier like Infineon and through the JDP and capacity expansion. This recently announced a long-term agreement with the customer on the 40-nanometer nonvolatile memory MCU is serving the auto market. And we actually have -- we are actually very excited for such engagement, and we're looking forward to the growth of that. The LTA specifically, LTA is actually a 2, it also becomes more of a common practice in the semi industry now because the industry starting to recognize this -- the semiconductor supply is essential. So to plan and future mutual growth, the strategic customers are waiting to do this long-term agreement with us to secure the capacity. So for -- this particular relationship is covered such arrangements.

好吧，我的意思是，我們通常不會針對客戶發表具體評論。但它們是我們汽車市場重點的一部分，我們將繼續與英飛凌等主要汽車半成品供應商合作，並通過 JDP 和產能擴張。這家最近宣布與客戶就40納米非易失性存儲器MCU服務於汽車市場達成長期協議。我們實際上已經 - 我們實際上對這種參與感到非常興奮，我們期待著這種參與的增長。 LTA 具體來說，LTA 實際上是 2，它現在也成為半導體行業的普遍做法，因為行業開始認識到這一點——半導體供應是必不可少的。因此，為了計劃和未來的共同增長，戰略客戶正在等待與我們達成長期協議以確保產能。因此，這種特殊關係包含此類安排。

Can you maybe just confirm how your LTA pipeline looks? I think you've talked about TWD 18 billion previously. Has that -- can you give us an update on what that number looks like today?

您能否確認一下您的 LTA 管道的外觀？我想你之前已經談過 180 億新台幣。有沒有——你能告訴我們這個數字今天的最新情況嗎？

Well, they're still in a similar range. They didn't have much changes. Most of our LTA agreement remain intact. We see slightly increase and -- but we also see some adjustments. So they still stay in the relatively same range.

好吧，它們仍然處於相似的範圍內。他們沒有太大的變化。我們的大部分 LTA 協議保持不變。我們看到略有增加——但我們也看到了一些調整。所以他們仍然保持在相對相同的範圍內。

Okay. And I just had a 2-part question on China, if you don't mind. One, can you give us an update on the China JV. I think you've signaled your intent to buy out the remaining ownership. Have you got approval from this from the Chinese government? Is that still on track? And then the second part of the question is, we saw the U.S. government introduced a new national defense outlay last year, which is likely to trigger U.S. and maybe also European Fabless companies moving away from using Chinese foundries. Can you maybe -- are you seeing any benefit from this? Have you -- or are you anticipating any boost from migrations perhaps to use UMC?

好的。如果你不介意的話，我剛剛有一個關於中國的兩部分問題。第一，你能給我們介紹一下中國合資企業的最新情況嗎？我想你已經表明你打算買斷剩餘的所有權。你得到中國政府的批准了嗎？這還在軌道上嗎？然後問題的第二部分是，我們看到美國政府去年推出了一項新的國防支出，這很可能會引髮美國乃至歐洲的 Fabless 公司不再使用中國代工廠。你能不能 - 你看到這有什麼好處嗎？您是否 - 或者您是否期待遷移可能會使用 UMC 帶來任何提升？

Yes. For the first question regarding UMC buybacks, we have retained all the necessary approval already. And we are going through the previously agreed contract. So I think it's moving along smoothly. So we do expect to close the deal in short range of time. So it should be happening this year.

是的。關於聯電回購的第一個問題，我們已經保留了所有必要的批准。我們正在履行之前商定的合同。所以我認為它進展順利。所以我們確實希望在短時間內完成交易。所以它應該在今年發生。

For your second question about the current geopolitical dynamics. The -- first of all, we think this -- all this dynamics affecting the customers' supply chain resilience planning. All customers need to looking into this and started evaluating their supply chain resilience. And UMC is definitely part of that consideration. And while we have a very diversified capacity between China, Taiwan, Singapore and Japan, that does give us a much better option to work with our customer. And in that context, we do see actually 2 ways. One is we're seeing some customer is moving product to other locations outside of China. But at the same time, and we also see some of the customers addressing the gift to take advantage of the China gap that creates.

關於當前地緣政治動態的第二個問題。 - 首先，我們認為 - 所有這些動態都會影響客戶的供應鏈彈性計劃。所有客戶都需要研究這一點並開始評估他們的供應鏈彈性。 UMC 絕對是該考慮因素的一部分。雖然我們在中國大陸、台灣、新加坡和日本之間擁有非常多元化的能力，但這確實為我們提供了更好的選擇來與我們的客戶合作。在這種情況下，我們確實看到了兩種方式。一是我們看到一些客戶正在將產品轉移到中國以外的其他地方。但與此同時，我們也看到一些客戶在處理禮品時利用了中國造成的差距。

So we -- given our diversified spaces now across Asia and with the comprehensive technology offering, net-net, our product mix will be balanced between all our Fabs.

所以我們 - 鑑於我們現在在亞洲的多元化空間以及全面的技術產品，net-net，我們的產品組合將在我們所有的晶圓廠之間保持平衡。

Next question, Bruce Lu of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題，高盛的Bruce Lu。

The first question is regarding to your ASP. Can you help me to understand that your first quarter the 28 and 40-nanometer revenue contributions lower, but your ASP is 1 notch up. And also, when you guided for second quarter, which is ASP flattish, but you did increase your 28-nanometer capacity in the second quarter, which is supposed to be the blended base ASP should go up. So can you help me to understand the ASP trend, especially when we have a lot of noise that someone is cutting the price or you try to offer a lot of like as discounts to your customers, but you didn't show up on your results.

第一個問題是關於您的 ASP。你能幫我理解一下你第一季度 28 和 40 納米的收入貢獻較低，但你的 ASP 提高了一個檔次。而且，當你指導第二季度時，ASP 持平，但你確實在第二季度增加了 28 納米的產能，這應該是混合基礎 ASP 應該上升。那麼，您能幫我了解 ASP 趨勢嗎，尤其是當我們聽到有人在降價或您嘗試向客戶提供很多類似折扣但您沒有出現在結果中時.

Well, I mean, like you said, the blended ASP is a result of the product mix and -- so any mix change will probably affecting the result of the blended ASP. And as of now, given our current projected product mix and no mix, we believe our blended ASP will be burnt quarter-over-quarter. It will probably be flat.

嗯，我的意思是，就像你說的，混合 ASP 是產品組合的結果——所以任何組合變化都可能影響混合 ASP 的結果。截至目前，鑑於我們目前預計的產品組合和無組合，我們相信我們的混合平均銷售價格將逐季下降。它可能會是平坦的。

Now as far as the pricing strategy, our pricing strategy is to closely working with our customers to uphold their competitiveness and relevance in their respective market space and secure their market share. And based on that strategy, our Q2 ASP outlook will remain firm. The -- in our consideration in pricing, it's not just based on the pricing only, you also have to base on the value proposition, supply chain relevance and so the EO technology offering and so on. So all that is part of the ASP consideration, the pricing consideration. And with all that included, our current ASP outlook will remain firm.

現在就定價策略而言，我們的定價策略是與客戶密切合作，以維護他們在各自市場空間的競爭力和相關性，並確保他們的市場份額。基於該策略，我們第二季度的平均售價前景將保持堅挺。 - 在我們考慮定價時，它不僅基於定價，還必須基於價值主張、供應鏈相關性等 EO 技術產品等。所以所有這些都是 ASP 考慮因素的一部分，定價考慮因素。綜上所述，我們目前的平均售價前景將保持堅挺。

I see. But that means that is a like-to-like basis or company average blended ASP for second quarter?

我懂了。但這意味著這是第二季度的同類基礎還是公司平均混合 ASP？

Well, I mean...

好吧，我的意思是...

First of all, for the second quarter, the newly added 12A P6 capacity is quite minimal. We actually cannot change the equation for Q2 ASP yet. It's still in a very small volume.

首先，對於第二季度來說，新增的12A P6容量非常小。我們實際上還不能改變 Q2 ASP 的等式。它的體積仍然很小。

I see. Understand. Okay. Then I want to switch gear a little bit for 8-inch. I'm actually pretty surprised to see around like 5% capacity expansion for your 8-inch. And I believe 8-inch capacity expansion is one of the -- is at the lower end or even lower than your corporate with capacity expansion. So what kind of like product or what kind of new products we are looking at to do that the 8-inch capacity expansion throughout the year? Or can we expect some like new product in 8-inch?

我懂了。理解。好的。然後我想稍微換一下 8 英寸的齒輪。看到您的 8 英寸大約有 5% 的容量擴展，我真的很驚訝。而且我相信 8 英寸的容量擴展是其中之一 - 處於低端甚至低於您的公司的容量擴展。那麼全年的8英寸產能擴容，我們正在尋找什麼樣的同類產品或者什麼樣的新產品呢？或者我們可以期待一些類似的 8 英寸新產品嗎？

Well, I mean, the capacity result now is actually came from some of the effort we have spent in the past. It's actually coming 2 portion of that. One is the we have done some of the maintenance on the previous -- I mean, in Q1. And so once the -- those will probably affect the Q1 output and so in Q2 without the maintenance, the number has actually gone up. Secondly is we continue with our streamlining process and the productivity improvement. So that will also reflect. And those efforts is accumulated from -- in the past and it just started kicking in Q2. It does not represent the overall demand.

嗯，我的意思是，現在的容量結果實際上來自我們過去付出的一些努力。它實際上是其中的 2 部分。一個是我們已經對之前的部分進行了一些維護——我的意思是，在第一季度。因此，一旦 - 這些可能會影響 Q1 的輸出，因此在沒有維護的情況下，Q2 的數量實際上已經上升。其次是我們繼續精簡流程和提高生產力。所以這也會反映。這些努力是從過去積累起來的，它剛剛開始在第二季度開始。不代表整體需求。

For the 8-inch outlook, the -- we have, first of all, in overall 2023 outlook, we have not seen any sign of 8-inch recovery in the foreseeable future. We definitely not immune from the market down cycle for the 8-inch. So we are impacted by that. We have observed the 8-inch business recovery will primarily depend on incentives, given that the competitive landscape in certain market segments, which are highly sensitive on pricing. So in short term, our pricing policy will remain firm, while UMC will continue to differentiate the solution and maintaining our customers' competitiveness to secure or protect their market share. And the longer term, we'll continue working straight to optimize our product mix and the customer portfolio. So there are some projects near term. But in the longer term, we still focus on the product mix improvement.

對於 8 英寸的前景，我們有，首先，在 2023 年的整體前景中，我們在可預見的未來沒有看到任何 8 英寸復甦的跡象。我們絕對不能免受 8 英寸市場下行週期的影響。所以我們受到了影響。我們觀察到 8 英寸業務的複蘇將主要取決於激勵措施，因為某些細分市場的競爭格局對價格高度敏感。因此，短期內，我們的定價政策將保持堅定，而聯華電子將繼續差異化解決方案並保持我們客戶的競爭力，以確保或保護他們的市場份額。從長遠來看，我們將繼續直接優化我們的產品組合和客戶組合。所以近期有一些項目。但從長遠來看，我們仍然專注於產品結構的改善。

Next question, Sunny Lin, UBS.

下一個問題，瑞銀集團的 Sunny Lin。

So my first question is on a 28-nanometer. I just wanted to quickly confirm, earlier, did you mention that the utilization rate will be able to improve toward 90% or higher by end of this year?

所以我的第一個問題是關於 28 納米的。我只是想快速確認一下，剛才你有沒有提到到今年年底利用率可以提高到90%或更高？

Yes, yes.

是的是的。

Got it. And so I wonder for your P6 expansions, could you remind us your later schedule for capacity expansion by end of this year? What's the current LTA coverage for this expansion?

知道了。所以我想知道你的 P6 擴展，你能提醒我們你在今年年底之前的產能擴展計劃嗎？此擴展的當前 LTA 覆蓋範圍是什麼？

Well, the P6 start ramping, the starting point is the Q3 this year and in a small volume, and we'll reach 12,000 by end of the year, the December time frame. And all our P6 covered by the customers' commitment and all those commitment and business momentum is on track.

好吧，P6 開始量產，起點是今年第三季度，產量很小，到年底，即 12 月的時間框架，我們將達到 12,000 輛。客戶承諾所涵蓋的所有 P6 以及所有這些承諾和業務勢頭都在步入正軌。

I see. And I think before you did tell us that for new expansions given the higher cost. And so the pricing will also be higher. And so should we assume for your broader ASP as P6 start to ramp into late this year? Would that be going up?

我懂了。我想在你告訴我們之前，考慮到成本更高的新擴展。所以定價也會更高。那麼，隨著 P6 在今年年底開始增加，我們是否應該假設您的更廣泛的 ASP？那會不會漲？

Well, I mean, we will provide our ASP guidance, the outlook 1 quarter at a time, given the current market dynamics. So I will prefer probably provide that information 1 quarter at a time, yes.

好吧，我的意思是，鑑於當前的市場動態，我們將提供我們的 ASP 指導，一次一個季度的展望。所以我更願意一次提供一個季度的信息，是的。

Sure. No problem. And so second question on -- also on China, but it's about the competition. And I think recently, a couple of equipment makers like ASML, Lam Research mentioned very meaningful pickup for China orders. And so I wonder if you would be concerned at all about the increasing China competition for mature foundry?

當然。沒問題。所以第二個問題——也是關於中國的，但它是關於競爭的。我認為最近，一些設備製造商，如 ASML，Lam Research 提到了對中國訂單非常有意義的回升。所以我想知道您是否會擔心中國對成熟代工廠的競爭日益激烈？

I mean we always face peers competition. The foundry business -- it is capital intensive. So some of the capital investment in terms of putting capacity in, it's not the only better for foundry to success. It is easier to enter the foundry space and putting it to end. However, it requires a lot more to become a successful foundry players. And we believe that UMC is well positioned as a foundry player with our comprehensive and competitive offering.

我的意思是我們總是面臨同齡人的競爭。代工業務——它是資本密集型的。因此，就投入產能而言，一些資本投資並不是鑄造廠成功的唯一條件。更容易進入鑄造空間並將其結束。然而，要成為一名成功的代工玩家，還需要做更多的事情。我們相信聯華電子憑藉其全面且具有競爭力的產品定位為代工企業。

Got it. Sorry, maybe one last question on pricing. As of now, despite the easing supply constraint. I think everyone was surprised that the mature foundry pricing has been holding up (inaudible). So I wonder what do you think you and your peers are doing differently in the current down cycle versus before? And do you think these changes will be sustainable going forward?

知道了。抱歉，最後一個關於定價的問題。截至目前，儘管供應限制有所緩解。我想每個人都對成熟的代工定價一直堅挺（聽不清）感到驚訝。所以我想知道您認為您和您的同行在當前的下行週期中與之前相比有何不同？您認為這些變化在未來是否可持續？

Well, I mean, I don't know how to comment on our peers. But in terms of our pricing strategy, I kind of mentioned earlier, is to closely working with our customers to uphold their competitiveness and in their respective markets to protect their market share. So we will be working with our customers to strengthen that. However, the -- in order to be competitive, it's not just pricing. You also have to look at your technology, your improvement, your capacity support. And net-net, to how to strengthen our customers competitiveness is a more of a holistic view. And we will strive to do that with our customer, and we definitely will be working with them and to make sure that we gave them the best support that we can. Meanwhile, also showing our view about our pricing consideration in terms of how to provide them with the value proposition, yes.

嗯，我的意思是，我不知道如何評論我們的同行。但就我們的定價策略而言，我之前提到過，是與我們的客戶密切合作，以維護他們的競爭力，並在各自的市場中保護他們的市場份額。因此，我們將與客戶合作以加強這一點。然而，為了具有競爭力，不僅僅是定價。你還必須看看你的技術，你的改進，你的能力支持。而net-net，對於如何加強我們客戶的競爭力更是一個整體的看法。我們將努力與我們的客戶一起做到這一點，我們肯定會與他們合作，並確保我們為他們提供最好的支持。同時，在如何為他們提供價值主張方面，也展示了我們對定價考慮的看法，是的。

Next question, Charlie Chan of Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題，摩根士丹利的陳查理。

Just want to clarify. Did you say that your addressable market forecast is now down high teens. Is that right?

只是想澄清一下。您是否說過您的可尋址市場預測現在下降了十幾歲。是對的嗎？

Well, I mean I think, Charlie, to be honest with you, we're actually tracking this market outlook. And just like we mentioned earlier, quarter-over-quarter, we actually see that is further declining. So the market is being very dynamic right now. The 2023 will be a challenging year. We continue collecting the market data, and we -- and try to tracking as close as we can. We just see the market actually is going to be much slower than we anticipated that recovery is going to be much slower than we anticipated. And so we more focus on now is to minimize our exposure and hopefully, we're going to be in line with our addressable market notes. And we do know it's going to get worse than last quarter, but I can't really give you a clear guidance on how much is that yet.

好吧，我的意思是我認為，查理，老實說，我們實際上正在追踪這個市場前景。就像我們之前提到的，季度環比，我們實際上看到它正在進一步下降。所以現在市場非常活躍。 2023年將是充滿挑戰的一年。我們繼續收集市場數據，我們 - 並嘗試盡可能接近地進行跟踪。我們只是看到市場實際上將比我們預期的要慢得多，復甦將比我們預期的要慢得多。因此，我們現在更關注的是盡量減少我們的風險敞口，希望我們能夠與我們可尋址的市場票據保持一致。我們確實知道它會比上個季度變得更糟，但我真的不能給你一個明確的指導，告訴你到底有多少。

Okay. But you said that you hope to grow in line with the addressable market, that's something you want to ensure?

好的。但你說你希望與目標市場保持一致，這是你想要確保的？

Probably not going to use the word of growth, but we will try to be in line with the addressable market.

可能不會使用增長這個詞，但我們會盡量與目標市場保持一致。

Okay. Declining as the addressable market, just kidding. Yes. So I guess a is still confident that the first half will be trough of your fab utilization? Or you think that the quarter could be the trough?

好的。作為可尋址市場下降，開玩笑。是的。所以我猜 a 仍然有信心上半年將是你們晶圓廠利用率的低谷？或者您認為該季度可能是低谷？

Well, I mean, for the Q1, we have observed that revenue is consolidating at the bottom now. So we do not expect the business environment to get worse for UMC. However, we have not seen a sign of a strong recovery in the next few months. I think that's sort of the visibility that we have today.

好吧，我的意思是，對於第一季度，我們觀察到收入現在正在底部鞏固。因此，我們預計聯電的商業環境不會變得更糟。然而，我們沒有看到未來幾個月強勁復甦的跡象。我認為這就是我們今天的知名度。

Yes, the time horizon is just the next few months. So anything beyond that, it's unclear for now.

是的，時間範圍只是接下來的幾個月。所以除此之外的任何事情，目前還不清楚。

Got it. Yes, in terms of the end markets, so first of all, any bright side or green shoes. We note you said there are some kind of recycling for PC, TV, SMEs that you're seeing any similar trends back that?

知道了。是的，就終端市場而言，首先，任何好的一面或綠色鞋子。我們注意到您說有某種針對 PC、電視和 SME 的回收，您看到任何類似的趨勢嗎？

Mean we see some short-term momentum. So for Q2, the computer segment will remain flat the consumer will remain flat, communication will remain flat and as well as automotive remained flat. So compared to the Q1, communication consumer computing is all declining, right? So we see some of the very light and momentum on those segments. But at the same time, we see the automotive since peak in the Q1. So it's -- we haven't really seen a strong recovery, but we see some bottoming. But again, this is given our current visibility. And our -- the visibility for second half is still baked, yes.

這意味著我們看到了一些短期勢頭。因此，對於第二季度，計算機領域將保持平穩，消費者將保持平穩，通信將保持平穩，汽車也將保持平穩。那麼與Q1相比，通信消費計算都在下降，對吧？因此，我們在這些細分市場上看到了一些非常光明和勢頭。但與此同時，我們看到汽車行業在第一季度達到頂峰。所以它——我們還沒有真正看到強勁的複蘇，但我們看到了一些觸底。但同樣，這是我們目前的知名度。我們的 - 下半年的能見度仍然存在，是的。

Okay. And I'm not sure if the company has any exposure to AI or generative AI type of products. If you do, can you share some of the trends there?

好的。而且我不確定該公司是否接觸過 AI 或生成 AI 類型的產品。如果你這樣做，你能分享一些那裡的趨勢嗎？

We have not. Even there is, it's not going to be any significance. So I'm probably not in the best position to comment that, yes.

我們還沒有。即使有，也不會有任何意義。所以我可能不適合發表評論，是的。

Okay. Okay. That's fair enough. And lastly, the pricing strategy, right? So let me try kind of a different way. So you said that you worked to get to help your customers to protect your market share. But unfortunately, if the lower price is the only way to prevent them to lose market share to their competitors. Would you support them in terms of wafer pricing? I know technology development, capacity support is kind of an ongoing process, right? Pricing support could be more immediate. So what would you say about that situation? Customers really need your pricing support.

好的。好的。這很公平。最後，定價策略，對嗎？所以讓我嘗試一種不同的方式。所以你說你努力去幫助你的客戶保護你的市場份額。但不幸的是，如果降低價格是防止他們將市場份額輸給競爭對手的唯一途徑。您會在晶圓定價方面支持他們嗎？我知道技術開發、能力支持是一個持續的過程，對嗎？定價支持可能會更直接。那麼對於這種情況你怎麼看？客戶確實需要您的定價支持。

Well, you asked it differently. So the simple way to put it is we always will hear what our customers voice. And we will work with them closely and to find a way to protect their market positions. And the -- another way to look at this is we actually -- it's more of a balance that and we look at the overall blended mix and we look at overall the portfolio and are also try to maintaining our profitable stability. So the -- hopefully, to gear up with the goal of a blended ASP with a flattish direction. So I think there is a lot of dynamics, a lot of discussion that we need to have with our customer, and we will work with them closely.

嗯，你問的不一樣。所以簡單地說就是我們總是會聽到客戶的聲音。我們將與他們密切合作，找到保護他們市場地位的方法。而且 - 另一種看待這個問題的方式實際上是 - 它更像是一種平衡，我們著眼於整體混合組合，我們著眼於整體投資組合，並試圖保持我們的盈利穩定性。因此，希望能夠實現具有平坦方向的混合 ASP 的目標。所以我認為有很多動態，我們需要與客戶進行大量討論，我們將與他們密切合作。

Yes. Yes. And just in general, right, not only specific to your company, which process nodes or type of process that you see commoditization, meaning pricing depreciation could be -- pricing could be the only differentiation?

是的。是的。總的來說，對，不僅特定於您的公司，您看到哪些流程節點或流程類型商品化，這意味著定價折舊可能是 - 定價可能是唯一的區別？

Which segments?

哪些細分市場？

Yes, for (inaudible), 0.13 micron capacity, yes.

是的，對於（聽不清）0.13 微米容量，是的。

I think the most obvious one is the 8-inch business. In the 8-inch business, there are certain segments that are more sensitive to the pricing. And there are certain market segments within the 8-inch are sensitive to the pricing.

我認為最明顯的是8英寸業務。在8英寸業務中，有一些細分市場對價格比較敏感。並且8英寸以內的部分細分市場對價格比較敏感。

Okay. Yes, I mean, we ask less of this. But leave it to me, I mean, gross margin sustainability is most important, if you compromise a little bit about your quantity, right, your stabilization can go up that could be okay for margin. So very, very last one to Chi-Tung. I think company has been holding margin very, very well, at mid-30% gross margin. Do you think that, that is a sustainable trend into second half?

好的。是的，我的意思是，我們要求更少。但是留給我，我的意思是，毛利率的可持續性是最重要的，如果你在數量上稍作妥協，對，你的穩定性可以提高，這對保證金來說是可以接受的。非常非常最後一個致 Chi-Tung。我認為公司一直保持著非常非常好的毛利率，毛利率在 30% 左右。您認為這是下半年的可持續趨勢嗎？

I cannot comment on that, but we do everything we can to bring down the breakeven point and also a very disciplined CapEx. All the effort is really to have Brazilian structure profitability. So I think we are seeing some of the results we work on with over the past few years. Of course, semiconductor is extremely cyclical. So we have our effort put in, but there's also the whole big cycle, cyclical impact. So all I can say is if this is a tough profitability, certainly, we have seen the improvement already, and we will continue to work on that. As for the number, the range, I cannot really give you a number, as I just mentioned, the cyclical impact is this hard weighting sometimes our effort. But overall, I mean, it's already an improvement from the previous down cycle.

我不能對此發表評論，但我們會盡一切努力降低盈虧平衡點，並實現非常有紀律的資本支出。所有的努力都是為了真正擁有巴西結構的盈利能力。所以我認為我們正在看到過去幾年我們努力取得的一些成果。當然，半導體是極具週期性的。所以我們付出了努力，但也有整個大周期，週期性影響。所以我只能說，如果這是一個艱難的盈利能力，當然，我們已經看到了改善，我們將繼續努力。至於數字，範圍，我真的不能給你一個數字，正如我剛才提到的，週期性影響有時是我們努力的硬權重。但總的來說，我的意思是，它已經比之前的下行週期有所改善。

If I may, I think that Chi-Tung has well said. But in addition, we do actually foresee challenge in the business condition, like you said. And not only that, in addition, they are rising costs and unfavorable ForEx consideration as well. So we -- like Chi-Tung said, we will strive to offset those headwinds as best we can with our effort on the product mix optimization, cost reduction activity and streamlining our process flow. So we will do everything we could to continue this yes.

如果可以的話，我認為志東說得很好。但除此之外，正如您所說，我們確實預見到商業環境中的挑戰。不僅如此，此外，他們還在不斷上漲的成本和不利的 ForEx 考慮。因此，我們——就像 Chi-Tung 所說的那樣，我們將努力通過我們在產品組合優化、成本降低活動和簡化流程方面的努力來盡可能地抵消這些不利因素。所以我們將竭盡所能繼續這個是的。

Next question, Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

下一個問題，摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

First of all, maybe I focus on 28-nanometer capacity expansion your larger peers kind of step back on some of their 28-nanometer capacity expansion recently, and the UMC currently has demand for the 12A P6 expansion. But any thoughts on how you think about 28-nanometer expansion over the medium term, especially as we think about the expansion in Singapore, any change in terms of plans, in terms of 28-nanometer demand supply that you see at this point in time?

首先，也許我專注於 28 納米產能擴張，而你們較大的同行最近在他們的一些 28 納米產能擴張上有所退步，而聯華電子目前有 12A P6 擴張的需求。但是關於您如何看待中期 28 納米擴展的任何想法，特別是當我們考慮新加坡的擴展時，計劃方面的任何變化，就您目前看到的 28 納米需求供應而言？

First of all, with our CapEx strategy, we try to be as disciplined as possible with the follow our ROI guidelines. And as far as for the 28 business, we remain confident of our 28 and 22 business, mainly from our differentiated and customized technologies. In addition, our 22 and 28 manufacturing capabilities such as EO, cycle time quality provides a compelling value for our customers. together, like I mentioned earlier, with the geographical diversified capacity offering now that we can offer them in Singapore or Taiwan and the customer -- and the customer's alignment. And this actually will support our long-term mutual commitments and for all -- across diversified market segments.

首先，在我們的資本支出戰略中，我們盡量遵守我們的投資回報率指南。就28業務而言，我們對28和22業務仍然充滿信心，主要來自我們差異化和定制化的技術。此外，我們的 22 和 28 製造能力（例如 EO、週期時間質量）為我們的客戶提供了極具吸引力的價值。就像我之前提到的那樣，現在我們可以在新加坡或台灣和客戶提供地理多元化的能力，以及客戶的一致性。這實際上將支持我們的長期共同承諾，並為所有人——跨越多元化的細分市場。

And last is not least the 28 and 22 is a sweet spot for many applications where the demand will continue to grow. With our strong product pipeline, the overall demand and supply dynamics will not change our long-term relevance in 22 and 28.

最後一點很重要，28 和 22 是許多需求將繼續增長的應用的最佳選擇。憑藉我們強大的產品線，整體需求和供應動態不會改變我們在 22 和 28 的長期相關性。

Okay. Got it. So in terms of the CapEx of TWD 3 billion, and it looks like you've already spent about 33% or 30% of that in Q1. Could we get a little bit more granularity in terms of the TWD 3 billion CapEx spend, especially for the 12-inch portion? Is it mostly going to be for P6? Or is there also some spend for Singapore coming in this year?

好的。知道了。因此，就 30 億新台幣的資本支出而言，您似乎已經在第一季度花費了其中的 33% 或 30%。我們能否在 30 億新台幣的資本支出方面獲得更多的粒度，尤其是 12 英寸部分？它主要用於P6嗎？或者今年新加坡也有一些支出？

It's all included in our calculation and assumption. Of course, we dynamically adjust our CapEx need and sometimes we re-prioritize the different projects. But for the time being, as I mentioned, it's going to be first half heavy in terms of our quarterly CapEx spending. So it will be lightening up in the second half of this year. So TWD 3 billion is our current projection.

這都包含在我們的計算和假設中。當然，我們會動態調整我們的資本支出需求，有時我們會重新確定不同項目的優先級。但就目前而言，正如我所提到的，就我們的季度資本支出而言，上半年將是沉重的。所以今年下半年會減倉。所以我們目前的預測是 30 億新台幣。

Okay. And what is the composition? Is it mostly for 12A P6? Or is there some Singapore-related spending also built into that TWD 3 billion budget?

好的。成分是什麼？主要用於12A P6嗎？還是在這 30 億新台幣的預算中也包含了一些與新加坡相關的支出？

Largely reflect the 12A P6 expansion in 2024 and some portion to 12I P3 investments.

主要反映了 2024 年 12A P6 的擴張和部分對 12I P3 的投資。

Got it. And maybe if I move to automotive, Jason, could you give us a little bit more detail in terms of your automotive exposure today? I think 17% of revenue is probably one of the highest among the foundry space. Is it mostly -- like by node, is it mostly 90 and 65 and by product, is it mainly MCU? Or is it a little bit more broad-based into some of the IGBT and power applications? Could you give us a little bit more detail in terms of what your automotive comprises of today?

知道了。也許如果我轉到汽車行業，Jason，您能否就您今天在汽車領域的曝光度向我們提供更多細節？我認為 17% 的收入可能是代工領域中最高的收入之一。它主要是 - 像節點一樣，它主要是 90 和 65 以及產品，它主要是 MCU 嗎？或者它是否更廣泛地應用於某些 IGBT 和電源應用？您能否更詳細地介紹一下您今天的汽車所包含的內容？

It's a combination of 8-inch and 12-inch and the -- there's not much of IGBT, mainly is on the BCD and the MCU space.

它是 8 英寸和 12 英寸的組合——IGBT 不多，主要是 BCD 和 MCU 空間。

Got it. And on the near term in automotive, so I think you did say that Q1 is likely to peak in terms of inventory replenishment. Are you seeing customers tuning down the auto expectations now? Or is it just that there will be change in plans, but the momentum is just kind of peaking out in Q1?

知道了。就近期汽車行業而言，我認為你確實說過第一季度可能會在庫存補充方面達到頂峰。您是否看到客戶現在降低了對汽車的期望？或者只是計劃會有變化，但勢頭只是在第一季度達到頂峰？

Well, I mean, we start seeing the momentum from automotive space in second half last year. And so they start picking up the peak the Q1. So it's been 3 quarters now, and we see some of the product they already get situated at a healthy inventory level. And so that's why we see some of the slowdown on that momentum. But from year-over-year, point of view, but we still see a significant growth on the automotive space. And the automotive space will remain to be one of the growth driver for us from a year-over-year standpoint.

好吧，我的意思是，我們從去年下半年開始看到汽車領域的發展勢頭。因此，他們開始在第一季度達到頂峰。所以現在已經三個季度了，我們看到他們的一些產品已經處於健康的庫存水平。這就是為什麼我們看到這種勢頭有所放緩的原因。但從同比來看，我們仍然看到汽車領域的顯著增長。從同比的角度來看，汽車領域仍將是我們的增長動力之一。

Got it. That's very clear. Maybe one last question on depreciation, Chi-Tung. How should we think about depreciation through this year? I think your guidance was for slightly down this year? But when do we start to see some of the new CapEx hitting the depreciation? Is it more in second half this year? Or we should expect more in 2024 rather?

知道了。這很清楚。最後一個關於折舊的問題，Chi-Tung。我們應該如何考慮今年的折舊？我認為你的指導今年略有下降？但是我們什麼時候開始看到一些新的資本支出達到折舊？今年下半年會更多嗎？或者我們應該在 2024 年期待更多？

In this year, we still expect to see a low single-digit decline compared to that of last year. And quarterly probably Q1 will -- or Q2 will be the lowest point. And -- but the difference is very minimal. So it's going to be quite flat for the quarterly distribution.

今年，我們仍然預計與去年相比會出現較低的個位數下降。每季度可能 Q1 將 - 或者 Q2 將是最低點。並且 - 但差異非常小。因此，季度分佈將非常平坦。

Next question, Szeho Ng of China Renaissance.

下一個問題，華興資本的Szeho Ng。

I have a quick question on your 22 and 28 nano portfolio. Roughly speaking, what's the split between the 2 now from the revenue contribution standpoint as from now and also 3, 5 years start open have the peak sales and also the Singapore Fab expansion completed?

我有一個關於您的 22 和 28 納米產品組合的快速問題。粗略地說，從收入貢獻的角度來看，現在 2 和 3、5 年開始銷售高峰銷售和新加坡工廠擴建完成之間的差距是多少？

Well, we start seeing the initial ramp of 22 this year. So they're still representing a smaller portion of the 22 and 28 business. But we do see the 22 will be -- right now, that grows very quickly starting from 2024 and so -- but in terms of the ratio of the 2, it was subject to a different product mix. So -- but I do think the 22 will also be a minimal run rate for us.

好吧，我們開始看到今年 22 的初始增長。所以他們仍然代表 22 和 28 業務的一小部分。但我們確實看到 22 將 - 現在，從 2024 年開始增長非常快 - 但就 2 的比例而言，它受到不同產品組合的影響。所以——但我確實認為 22 對我們來說也是最低運行率。

I see. Got you. To assume that you will be more than half, right, where we have order capacity ramp up?

我懂了。明白了假設您將超過一半，對吧，我們的訂單容量在哪裡增加？

Well, I mean, our capacity can support both. So in terms of the ratio of that was subject to the end markets. So from a capability standpoint, yes.

好吧，我的意思是，我們的能力可以支持兩者。因此，就該比率而言，它取決於終端市場。所以從能力的角度來看，是的。

I see. All right. And next question maybe for Chi-Tung. What should we expect for the dividend policy going forward? Should we assume it based on the payout ratio perspective or from an absolute dollar perspective?

我懂了。好的。下一個問題可能要問 Chi-Tung。我們對未來的股息政策有何期待？我們應該根據支付比率的角度還是從絕對美元的角度來假設它？

So I'm more likely to be a hybrid consideration. And we did mention that it has to be over 50% of our earnings will need to be paid out in cash. That's in our stated dividend policy. But in absolute dollar terms, we will also consider that as well. So it's more like a hybrid, and consistency and stable dividend payout will be our summary for dividend policy.

所以我更有可能是一個混合考慮因素。我們確實提到，必須有超過 50% 的收入需要以現金支付。這是我們規定的股息政策。但以絕對美元計算，我們也會考慮這一點。所以它更像是一個混合體，一致性和穩定的股息支付將是我們對股息政策的總結。

Okay. All right. Fair enough.

好的。好的。很公平。

Next question, Nicolas Baratte from Macquarie.

下一個問題，來自 Macquarie 的 Nicolas Baratte。

Yes, given the higher CapEx in 2022 and 2023, what kind of capacity increase do you think you have in 2023, 2024?

是的，鑑於 2022 年和 2023 年的資本支出較高，您認為您在 2023 年、2024 年會有什麼樣的產能增長？

Yes. Each year, we are budgeting around 5%, 6% also of capacity increase. But as we mentioned earlier, our CapEx number, we dynamically adjust that and re-prioritize certain projects. So -- according to the market conditions. So I think 5% also is the numbers for the next -- this year and next year.

是的。每年，我們的預算都在 5% 左右，還有 6% 的產能增長。但正如我們之前提到的，我們的資本支出數字會動態調整併重新確定某些項目的優先級。所以——根據市場情況。所以我認為 5% 也是下一個——今年和明年的數字。

Next question, Frank Lee of HSBC.

下一個問題，匯豐銀行的Frank Lee。

Just wanted to ask a question a little bit on in terms of the overall guidance that you guys have talked about and the overall tone. It seems like from what you're seeing units and shipments, 2Q should be basically flattish or bottoming. But overall, I guess, tone that we're seeing is that demand recovery hasn't been very clear and auto has potentially peaked. And also looking at your utilization rate is actually going to go up, but your capacity is increasing, but unit shipments are flat. So just trying to get a sense of maybe the overall turn versus the guidance. Are there any company-specific issues that maybe you guys need to continue to grow more share or anything that we're missing?

只是想就你們談到的總體指導和總體基調問一個問題。從您所看到的單位和出貨量來看，第二季度應該基本持平或觸底。但總的來說，我想，我們看到的基調是需求復蘇還不是很明顯，汽車業可能已經見頂。而且還要看你的利用率實際上是要上升的，但是你的產能在增加，但是單位出貨量卻持平。所以只是想了解一下整體轉向與指導的關係。是否有任何公司特定的問題，也許你們需要繼續增加更多的份額，或者我們遺漏了什麼？

Just base capacity was lower in Q1 because of the new maintenance. And quarter 2, of course, the base went back to normal. And on top of that, we have some additional capacity increase. And there's always a wafer ship, wafer out time delayed in a very minimum way. So overall, it's a flattish outlook for second quarter. And yet, we do see some bright spots like our 28 demand is firming up. And the 8-inch outlook seems getting a little bit deteriorated. So there's a mix factors out there on top of the rising raw material costs and the unfavorable following exchanges. So it all kind of mixed up and lead to our current flattish quarter 2 guidance.

由於新的維護，第一季度的基礎產能較低。當然，第 2 季度基地恢復正常。最重要的是，我們還有一些額外的容量增加。而且總是有晶圓船，晶圓輸出時間以最小的方式延遲。總的來說，第二季度的前景持平。然而，我們確實看到了一些亮點，比如我們的 28 需求正在走強。而 8 英寸的前景似乎有點惡化。因此，除了不斷上漲的原材料成本和不利的後續交易之外，還有多種因素。所以這一切都混合在一起，導致我們目前持平的第二季度指導。

We are confident for what we have done our company specifically, but for the recovery of the market consensus, we just want to point out that we haven't really seen a very clear signs for a strong recovery as previously, the market was hoping.

我們對我們公司具體所做的事情充滿信心，但對於市場共識的恢復，我們只想指出，我們還沒有真正看到市場所希望的強勁復甦的非常明顯跡象。

Okay. And can I just ask a follow-up on -- you've mentioned the auto business has peaked in Q1, but your IDM business has continued to ramp up quite nicely. Is there a mix of auto that's part of this IDM? And with auto slowing, is there a potential impact on IDMs be slowing down or not growing as fast as we've seen in the last couple of quarters?

好的。我能不能問一個後續問題——你提到汽車業務在第一季度達到頂峰，但你的 IDM 業務繼續很好地增長。這個 IDM 中是否混合了汽車？隨著汽車減速，對 IDM 的潛在影響是否會像我們在過去幾個季度看到的那樣放緩或增長不快？

I mean the IDM includes the auto and also the non-auto business. So in general, we do see our IDM portion of the business actually increased, not 100% coming from the auto market.

我的意思是 IDM 包括汽車業務和非汽車業務。所以總的來說，我們確實看到我們的 IDM 業務部分實際上有所增加，而不是 100% 來自汽車市場。

And next one, Laura Chen of Citi.

下一位是花旗銀行的 Laura Chen。

Just a very quick follow-up, also on the IDM business as we see quite solid momentum in Q1. So just wondering what kind of technology node and also application. You just kind of sort of talk about the automotive exposure in the IDM space. But just wondering that what's your order visibilities of the IDM outsourcing in the second half? Or also like what's the percentage of the IDM business in like consumer and communication application?

只是一個非常快速的跟進，也是關於 IDM 業務的，因為我們在第一季度看到了相當強勁的勢頭。所以只是想知道什麼樣的技術節點和應用程序。你只是有點談論 IDM 領域的汽車曝光。但只是想知道您下半年IDM外包的訂單能見度如何？或者也像 IDM 業務在消費者和通信應用程序中的百分比是多少？

Well, I mean, in addition to the outdoor segment in the IDM space, which is provide some growth for the quarter. And we also continue seeing the -- our momentum in the 22 -- I mean, sorry, the 28 and the high-voltage space, as well as the larger in ISP area so the -- which is associated with the mobile space, yes.

好吧，我的意思是，除了 IDM 空間中的戶外部分，這為本季度提供了一些增長。我們還繼續看到 - 我們在 22 年的勢頭 - 我的意思是，對不起，28 和高壓空間，以及更大的 ISP 區域 - 這與移動空間相關，是的.

Okay. But at the same time, you are also saying that the overall demand recovery seems to be quite remote into the second half. But on the IDM business specifically is the -- you see solid order visibility at the moment, am I correct?

好的。但與此同時，您也表示整體需求復蘇似乎到下半年還很遙遠。但在 IDM 業務上，具體是——你現在看到了可靠的訂單可見性，我說的對嗎？

We do see that space is actually fairly stable for us, yes.

我們確實看到空間對我們來說實際上相當穩定，是的。

Next one, Rick Hsu of Daiwa.

下一個，Daiwa 的 Rick Hsu。

Just one question from me regarding your 28-nanometer. Could you guys give us more color about your percentage of revenue contribution ramp up into the second half? Would that be possible exceeding 30% in the second half?

關於您的 28 納米，我只有一個問題。你們能否給我們更多關於下半年收入貢獻百分比的顏色？下半年有可能超過30%嗎？

The base is actually predictable either. So -- but we are saying the foundry utilization rate is going to exceed 90% in second half. But it's difficult to give you a pinpoint percentage of revenue given that we are not 100% sure about our revenue base yet for the second half. But certainly, it will improve gradually.

基地實際上也是可以預測的。所以——但我們說下半年鑄造廠的利用率將超過 90%。但鑑於我們還不能 100% 確定下半年的收入基礎，因此很難為您提供準確的收入百分比。但可以肯定的是，它會逐漸改善。

Yes, fair enough. That's pretty helpful about this over 90% utilization rate for second half. And just a quick follow-up regarding your pricing. Do you expect any price elasticity to kick in, in the second half? Because the reason why I'm asking is because I recently talked to some of your key customers. And they told me they believe that in the second half, if the demand recover and they are able to give you guys more volumes then you'll probably be happy to give some price discount to these guys with the volume increase, so what you think?

是的，很公平。這對下半年超過 90% 的利用率非常有幫助。只需快速跟進您的定價。您預計下半年會出現價格彈性嗎？因為我問的原因是因為我最近和你們的一些主要客戶談過。他們告訴我，他們相信在下半年，如果需求恢復並且他們能夠給你們更多的數量，那麼隨著數量的增加，你們可能會很樂意給這些人一些價格折扣，所以你怎麼想？

I mean, we'd be happy to discuss that when that happens. Right now, the elasticity of the demand is still not clear to us. And if we start seeing a strong sign of recovery, and then we definitely would be looking into that. Again, the -- we have many different consideration for the pricing, right? So I have said multiple times earlier already, and we will -- we definitely will work with them closely to make sure that we well communicated and all consideration being explored, and hopefully, we can reach the mutual benefits.

我的意思是，當這種情況發生時，我們很樂意討論這個問題。目前，我們還不清楚需求的彈性。如果我們開始看到強烈的複蘇跡象，那麼我們肯定會對此進行調查。同樣，我們對定價有很多不同的考慮，對吧？所以我之前已經多次說過，我們將 - 我們一定會與他們密切合作，以確保我們進行良好的溝通並探討所有考慮因素，並希望我們能夠實現互惠互利。

And ladies and gentlemen, we are running out of time, and we're going to take the last question. And the last one is Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

女士們先生們，我們的時間不多了，我們將回答最後一個問題。最後一位是高盛的Bruce Lu。

I want to ask about like the capacity expansion plan. I think you are one of the -- only one who doesn't really kind of CapEx for this year. I mean, do you consider to renegotiate the LTL with your customers for a further delay for your 28 because the capacity expansion or the oversupply situation, and you may definitely not as good as a couple of years under 2 years ago? And do you have any customers trying to push out the schedule by a quarter or 2 or anything like that?

我想問一下擴容計劃之類的。我認為你是今年唯一沒有真正投入資本支出的人之一。我的意思是，你是否考慮與你的客戶重新談判 LTL，以便進一步延遲你的 28，因為產能擴張或供過於求的情況，你可能肯定不如 2 年前的幾年？您是否有任何客戶試圖將時間表推遲 1 個或 2 個季度或類似時間？

Well, I mean when we observe the weakness of the market change from last year, end of last year, many discussions already took place. And we have realigned with the customer, we have reexamined the demand outlook. And the -- some of the conversations have already been discussed, and we have already realigned it. Currently to plan the mutual growth going forward, and we continue tracking those engagement, and we continue to review them on a regular basis. At this point, our P6 ramp still on track. If there is any changes, we will update you, but there's no change at this point.

好吧，我的意思是，當我們觀察到去年年底市場變化的疲軟時，已經進行了許多討論。我們已經與客戶重新結盟，重新審視了需求前景。而且 - 已經討論了一些對話，我們已經重新調整了它。目前計劃未來的共同增長，我們將繼續跟踪這些參與，並繼續定期審查它們。此時，我們的 P6 坡道仍在軌道上。如果有任何變化，我們會及時通知您，但目前沒有任何變化。

It needs no change, which means that your CapEx will remain at elevated levels even for 2024?

它不需要改變，這意味著即使到 2024 年，您的資本支出也將保持在較高水平？

Well, I mean, for now, like we said, our CapEx TWD 3 billion has not changed, but we always have a contingency plan in place to adjust the CapEx if needed. Changing our CapEx will depend on the macro conditions, industry will make a trend and customer long-term business alignment. And like I said, alignment started end of last year on a continued basis, if there is any changes, and then we have to kick in the contingency plan. But at this point, I mean, we -- at this quarter and our CapEx budgets to remain the same, yes.

好吧，我的意思是，就目前而言，就像我們說的那樣，我們的 30 億新台幣資本支出沒有改變，但我們始終有一個應急計劃，以便在需要時調整資本支出。改變我們的資本支出將取決於宏觀條件，行業將使趨勢和客戶長期業務保持一致。就像我說的那樣，調整從去年年底開始持續進行，如果有任何變化，那麼我們必須啟動應急計劃。但在這一點上，我的意思是，我們 - 在本季度和我們的資本支出預算保持不變，是的。

Yes. One last one is for Chi-Tung. The Xiamen is down well like 30% in first quarter. Is that a new level in coming quarters? And when is the subsidy going to end?

是的。最後一張是給志東的。廈門一季度跌了近30%。這是未來幾個季度的新水平嗎？補貼什麼時候結束？

A majority of the subsidy linked to the depreciation schedule of our 12X in Xiamen, and the depreciation for Xiamen has nearly come to an end. So that also reflects. So basically, we got money first in our pocket. And the recognition will go along with the depreciation schedule. And the depreciation now is coming to an end. So the number will gradually to come down.

大部分補貼是和我們廈門12X的折舊計劃掛鉤的，廈門的折舊也快結束了。所以這也反映了。所以基本上，我們先把錢放在口袋裡。並且認可將與折舊時間表一起進行。現在貶值即將結束。所以這個數字會逐漸下降。

So we have a model like gradually come down coming to orders?

所以我們有一個像逐漸接受訂單這樣的模型？

Yes. It's coming down along with declining depreciation expenses for our 12X. So on one hand, the depreciation expenses will come down. On the other hand, the subsidy we recognize on book will also decline.

是的。它隨著我們 12X 的折舊費用下降而下降。所以一方面，折舊費用會下降。另一方面，我們賬面上承認的補貼也會下降。

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for all your questions. That concludes today's Q&A session. And I'll turn it over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

謝謝。女士們，先生們，我們感謝你們提出的所有問題。今天的問答環節到此結束。我會把它交給 UMC 的 IR 負責人作結束語。

Thank you for attending this conference today. We appreciate your questions. As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at ir@umc.com. Have a good day.

感謝您參加今天的會議。感謝您提出問題。與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時通過 ir@umc.com 聯繫 UMC。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for first quarter 2023. Thank you for your participation in UMC's conference. There will be a webcast replay within 2 hours. Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors Events section. You may now disconnect. Goodbye.

謝謝。女士們，先生們，我們 2023 年第一季度的會議到此結束。感謝您參加 UMC 的會議。將在 2 小時內進行網絡廣播重播。請訪問投資者活動部分下的 www.umc.com。您現在可以斷開連接。再見。