聯華電子 (UMC) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome everyone to UMC's 2024 fourth-quarter earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) For your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the internet. Webcast replay will be available within an hour after the conference is finished. Please visit our website, www.umc.com, under the Investor Relations, Investors Events section.

歡迎大家參加聯華電子 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）僅供參考，本次電話會議現透過網路進行現場直播。會議結束後一小時內將提供網路直播重播。請造訪我們的網站 www.umc.com，位於「投資者關係」、「投資者活動」部分。

And now, I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations at UMC. Mr. Lin, please begin.

現在，我想介紹一下聯華電子投資者關係主管 Michael Lin 先生。林先生，請開始。

Thank you and welcome to UMC's conference call for the fourth quarter of 2024. I'm joined by Jason Wang, President of UMC; and Mr. Chi-Tung Liu, the CFO of UMC. In a moment, we will hear our CFO presents the fourth-quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMC's focus and first-quarter 2025 guidance.

感謝並歡迎參加聯華電子 2024 年第四季的電話會議。聯華電子總裁 Jason Wang 也出席了會議。以及聯電財務長劉志東先生。稍後，我們將聽到我們的財務長介紹第四季度的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁針對 UMC 的重點和 2025 年第一季指導的關鍵訊息。

Once our President and CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A session. UMC's quality financial reports are available at our website www.umc.com, under the Investors Financial section. During this conference, we may make forward-looking statements based on management's current expectations and beliefs.

一旦我們的總裁和財務長完成發言，就會有問答環節。UMC 的優質財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的投資者財務部分取得。在這次會議期間，我們可能會根據管理層目前的期望和信念做出前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ maturity including the risks that may be beyond the company's control. For a more detailed description of these risk and uncertainties, please refer to our recent and subsequent filings with the SEC and the IOC security authorities. During this conference, you may view our financial presentations material which is being broadcast live through the internet.

這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與成熟度不同，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。有關這些風險和不確定性的更詳細描述，請參閱我們最近和隨後向美國證券交易委員會和國際奧委會安全當局提交的文件。在本次會議期間，您可以觀看我們透過網路直播的財務簡報資料。

Now, I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Chi-Tung Liu to discuss UMC's fourth quarter 2024 financial results.

現在，我想介紹聯電財務長劉志東先生來討論聯華電子2024年第四季的財務表現。

Thank you, Michael. I'd like to go through the 4Q '24 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded of view in real time from our website. Starting on page 4, the fourth quarter of 2024. Consolidated revenue was TWD60.4 billion, with gross margin at 30.4%. Net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD8.5 billion, and earnings per ordinary share was TWD0.68. Utilization rate in the Q4 was 70%, slightly down from the previous quarter of 71%.

謝謝你，麥可。我想瀏覽一下 24 年第 4 季投資者會議簡報資料，該資料可以從我們的網站即時下載查看。從第 4 頁開始，2024 年第四季。合併營收為新台幣604億元，毛利率為30.4%。歸屬於母公司股東的淨利為新台幣85億元，每股普通股收益為新台幣0.68元。第四季的利用率為70%，略低於上一季的71%。

On the quarterly income statement. Operating revenue was basically flat, around TWD60.4 billion and gross margin rate maintained at 30.4% or TWD18.3 billion. Due to mark-to-market loss of the investment portfolio, for both UMC and UMC Capital, we registered a TWD1.4 billion loss of non-operating income in Q4 '24.

關於季度損益表。營業收入基本持平，約 604 億新台幣，毛利率維持在 30.4%，即 183 億新台幣。由於投資組合以市價計價的損失，聯華電子和聯電資本在 2024 年第 4 季的非營業收入損失達 14 億新台幣。

The result is the net income attributable to the shareholder of the parent reached TWD8.49 billion or TWD0.68 EPS per share. For the cumulative whole year 2024 performance on a year-over-year comparison, revenue increased 4.4% Y-o-Y to TWD232.3 billion. Gross margin rate was around 32.6% or TWD75.6 billion.

結果歸屬母公司股東淨利84.9億元新台幣，即每股EPS0.68新台幣。2024 年全年累計業績年增 4.4%，達到 2,323 億新台幣。毛利率約32.6%，即756億元新台幣。

Operating expenses is under control around 10.9%, similar to the 10.7% in 2023. The net income for 2024 was TWD47.2 billion or TWD3.8 share per share. EPS per ADS is TWD0.58. On the balance sheet, our cash on hand is over TWD100 billion and total equity for the company at the end of 2024 reached TWD378 billion.

營運費用控制在10.9%左右，與2023年的10.7%相近。2024年淨利為新台幣472億，即每股新台幣3.8元。每ADS每股收益為新台幣0.58。資產負債表上，我們庫存現金超過1,000億新台幣，2024年底公司總股本達到3,780億新台幣。

ASP last quarter at Q4 was flat around flat to quarter-over-quarter. And let's go down to Page 9 for revenue breakdown for Q4 2024, the Asia sales represent about 61%, which declined 4 percentage points from the previous quarter when Europe increased from 5% to 11% in Q4 2022.

上季第四季的平均售價與上一季持平。我們再看第9頁2024年第四季的營收細節，亞洲銷售額約佔61%，比上一季下降了4個百分點，而歐洲在2022年第四季從5%上升到11 %。

For the whole year, the Asia part of the revenue increased from 57% in 2023 to 63% in 2024. Europe declined about 3% to 8 percentage points from 11% in the previous year. When US North America didn't really change that much from 27% to 25%.

全年來看，亞洲部分營收佔比從2023年的57%增加到2024年的63%。歐洲從去年的 11% 下降了約 3% 至 8 個百分點。美國北美地區從 27% 到 25% 並沒有太大變化。

For quarterly IDM revenue remained flattish from 15% to 16%. For the full year, it declined from 22% in 2023 to 16% in 2024. In terms of application breakdown, we see Consumer segment declined about 2% to 29%, and communication also declined about 3% to 39% and others, including automotive and industrial in this single quarter due to customers order modulation and wafer ship difference increased from 14% to 19%.

季度 IDM 收入保持平穩，從 15% 到 16%。全年來看，從2023年的22%下降到2024年的16%。在應用細分方面，我們看到消費領域下降了約2%至29%，通訊領域也下降了約3%至39%，其他領域，包括汽車和工業，由於客戶訂單調整和晶圓出貨差異從14％至19％。

On page 14, our full-year application breakdown, communication is around 42%, and consumer is about 29%. On page 15, our technology breakdown, our 22 and 28-nanometer shipment continue to increase and right now represent about 34% of the total revenue and 40-nanometer also see some increase from 13% in the previous quarter to 16% in the quarter.

在第 14 頁，我們全年都應用細分，溝通約 42%，消費者約 29%。在第15 頁，我們的技術細分，我們的22 和28 奈米出貨量持續成長，目前約佔總營收的34%，40 奈米也有所成長，從上一季的13% 增至本季的16% 。

For the whole year, 28/22 nm represent about 34% of our total revenue when 14 nanometer remain constant around 14%. Capacity continued to increase, mainly from our 1P operation. And it will somehow decline a little bit because of the Chinese New Year holiday schedule and also in new maintenance schedule in the Q1 of 2025.

全年來看，28/22 nm 約占我們總收入的 34%，而 14 nm 則穩定在 14% 左右。產能持續增加，主要來自我們的1P營運。由於農曆新年假期安排以及 2025 年第一季新的維護計劃，它會以某種方式略有下降。

CapEx budget for 2025 currently stand around TWD1.8 billion. And the actual CapEx number for 2024 was a bit over USD2.8 billion. The above the summary of UMC results for Q4 2024. More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website.

目前 2025 年資本支出預算約 18 億新台幣。2024 年的實際資本支出略高於 28 億美元。以上是聯華電子 2024 年第四季業績摘要。更多詳細資訊請參閱我們網站上發布的報告。

I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Jason Wang.

我現在將電話轉給聯電總裁王傑森先生。

Well, thank you, Chi-Tung. Good evening, everyone. Here, I would like to share UMC's fourth-quarter results. Our fourth-quarter results and guidance. With wafer shipments and utilization slightly exceeding expectations.

嗯，謝謝你，志東。大家晚上好。在這裡，我想分享一下聯電第四季的業績。我們的第四季業績和指導。晶圓出貨量和使用率略超預期。

For full year 2024, revenue grew 4.4% year-on-year, reflecting improvement in demand across communication, consumer and computer segment. Our 22/28-nanometer portfolio remains the largest contributor with revenue increasing 15% in 2024.

2024 年全年營收年增 4.4%，反映出通訊、消費者和電腦領域需求的改善。我們的 22/28 奈米產品組合仍然是最大的貢獻者，2024 年營收將成長 15%。

Notably, customers are showing strong interest in migrating to our 22-nanometer specialty platform for next-generation networking and display driver applications, which offers significant power savings and performance advantage over the 28-nanometer solution. Tape-outs for 22-nanometer products are accelerating and we expect to see higher revenue contribution from 2025 onwards.

值得注意的是，客戶對遷移到我們的 22 奈米專業平台以實現下一代網路和顯示驅動器應用表現出濃厚的興趣，該平台比 28 奈米解決方案具有顯著的節能效果和性能優勢。22 奈米產品的流片正在加速，我們預計從 2025 年起將看到更高的收入貢獻。

Looking into 2025, the semiconductor market is posted for another year of growth, driven by strong demand for AI service as well as increasing semiconductor content in smartphones, PCs and other electronic devices to capture opportunities in the fast-moving market, UMC continue to invest in technology, innovation, developing industry-leading specialty solutions to ride the next wave of system upgrades and stay ahead of the competition.

展望2025年，半導體市場將迎來另一個成長年，在人工智慧服務的強勁需求以及智慧型手機、個人電腦和其他電子設備中半導體含量不斷增加的推動下，聯華電子繼續在快速發展的市場中抓住機會在技術、創新方面，開發行業領先的專業解決方案，以駕馭下一波系統升級並在競爭中保持領先地位。

Building on our technology foundation, UMC is also actively expanding our advanced packaging offering to help unleash the potential of AI in upcoming years. In conjunction with technology development, our key capacity expansion projects are progressing as planned.

在我們的技術基礎上，聯電也積極擴展我們的先進封裝產品，以幫助在未來幾年釋放人工智慧的潛力。結合技術開發，重點產能擴張項目正按計畫推進。

Our new Singapore Phase 3 fab will enhance customer supply chain resilience, while the 12-nanometer collaboration with our US partner will offer customers a migration path beyond 22 nanometers. Now let's move on to first quarter 2025 guidance.

我們新的新加坡三期工廠將增強客戶供應鏈的彈性，而與美國合作夥伴的 12 奈米合作將為客戶提供超越 22 奈米的遷移路徑。現在讓我們繼續討論 2025 年第一季的指導。

Our wafer shipment will remain flat. ASP in US dollars was decreased by mid-single-digit percentage. Gross margin will be higher than 25% with January grade impact. Capacity utilization rate will be approximately 70%. Our 2025 cash-based CapEx will be budgeted at USD1.8 billion.

我們的晶圓出貨量將保持穩定。以美元計算的平均售價下降了中個位數百分比。受 1 月成績影響，毛利率將高於 25%。產能利用率約70%。我們 2025 年以現金為基礎的資本支出預算為 18 億美元。

That concludes my comments. Thank you all for your attention. Now we are ready for questions.

我的評論到此結束。感謝大家的關注。現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Sunny Lin, UBS.

林陽光，瑞銀。

Good afternoon, Jason and Chi-Tung. Thank you for taking my questions. So my first question is on gross margin. And so these above 25% gross margin guidance for Q1. Could you help us understand what are some of the major factors because if we look at the Q1 2024, your blended ASP was also down by about mid-single digit, but you were able to keep up your gross margin. And so I wonder why the meaningful decline for Q1 this year?

下午好，傑森和志東。感謝您回答我的問題。所以我的第一個問題是毛利率。因此，第一季毛利率指引高於 25%。您能否幫助我們了解一些主要因素，因為如果我們查看 2024 年第一季度，您的混合 ASP 也下降了大約中個位數，但您能夠保持毛利率。所以我想知道為什麼今年第一季會大幅下降？

And then maybe the second part for gross margin is how should we think about the full year? Is it above 25%, should we consider that as a fair assumption for full year? Or would you expect some recovery in coming few quarters? Maybe let me stop here, and I have a few follow-ups.

那麼毛利率的第二部分可能是我們應該如何看待全年？是否高於 25%，我們是否應該將其視為全年的合理假設？或者您預計未來幾季會出現一些復甦？也許讓我就此打住，我還有一些後續行動。

Thank you. First of all, the earthquake earlier this morning does have the impact on our Q1 margins, maybe about low single digit. And however, the part of the -- or a large part of the loss will be compensated through insurance in the later stage.

謝謝。首先，今天早上早些時候的地震確實對我們第一季的利潤率產生了影響，可能約為低個位數。不過，部分——或者說很大一部分損失，後期會透過保險得到補償。

And secondly, the Q1 margin is impacted by both ASP decline, which is one-off and also the increased depreciation expenses. So we don't expect anything structural in terms of our profitability change. The one-off pricing adjustment and depreciation, but earthquake this morning led to this higher than 25% gross margin guidance.

其次，第一季利潤率受到一次性平均售價下降和折舊費用增加的影響。因此，我們預計獲利能力不會發生任何結構性變化。一次性的定價調整和折舊，但今早的地震導致了這高於25%的毛利率指引。

We will continue to deploy aggressive cost management to offset the headwind cost focusing on multi-sourcing strategy, streamlining process flow, supply chain, pricing management and power reduction measures on facility and tools. Of course, we will continue to invest for the future, including the automation transformation. So as for the rest of the year, we will give the guidance on a quarterly basis.

我們將繼續部署積極的成本管理，以抵消逆風成本，重點關注多採購策略、簡化流程、供應鏈、定價管理以及設施和工具的節能措施。當然，我們會繼續對未來進行投資，包括自動化改造。因此，對於今年剩餘時間，我們將按季度給予指導。

Got it. Thank you very much Chi-Tung. So if I can follow up on the depreciation increase. And so what's your current guidance for the growth for depreciation for 2025? And how much depreciation will increase going to Q1? Should we assume most of the depreciation increase to happen in first half because you have compared your 28-nanometer expansion in Taiwan, and therefore, the depreciation increase will start to moderate going to second half?

知道了。非常感謝志東。那麼我是否可以跟進折舊的增加情況。那麼您目前對 2025 年折舊成長的指導是多少？到第一季折舊會增加多少？我們是否應該假設大部分折舊增加發生在上半年，因為您比較了台灣的28納米擴張，因此，折舊增加將在下半年開始放緩？

The depreciation increase in 2024, as we guided, was low 20%. As a matter of fact, it's very close to 20%. As for 2025, the guidance will be high 20% for the whole year. And we don't really have a full quarterly breakdown yet for the depreciation expenses because it varies according to the tour installation, et cetera. But the peak of the depreciation, we will see way down until maybe 2027 to see pickup. So it's still another year or two to go in terms of depreciation increase.

正如我們所指導的，2024 年的折舊增幅為 20%。事實上，這個比例非常接近20%。至於2025年，全年指導值高20%。我們還沒有真正的折舊費用的完整季度細目，因為它根據旅遊設施等而變化。但在貶值達到頂峰時，我們預計到 2027 年才會出現回升。因此，就折舊增加而言，還需要一到兩年的時間。

Got it. Thank you very much. My second question is on your cash dividend. So how should we think about your policy? Obviously, I think last year, business was through the trough, but on the other hand, your cash flow should start to improve substantially given the lower CapEx. I understand the cash dividend, we still need to go through the approval from the Board, but any color from your strategy would be very helpful.

知道了。非常感謝。我的第二個問題是關於你們的現金股利。那我們該如何考慮你們的政策呢？顯然，我認為去年業務已經度過了低谷，但另一方面，鑑於資本支出較低，您的現金流應該會開始大幅改善。我了解現金股息，我們仍然需要經過董事會的批准，但是您策略中的任何顏色都會非常有幫助。

Yeah. We understand UMC need to maintain somewhat better than average dividend yield in order to attract our investors. And we will extract a dedicate balance between business growth and shareholder returns. Most importantly, we want to ensure shareholders receive a stable and consistent cash dividend.

是的。我們知道聯華電子需要維持高於平均的股息殖利率才能吸引我們的投資者。我們將在業務成長和股東回報之間取得專門的平衡。最重要的是，我們希望確保股東獲得穩定、持續的現金股利。

Also last two years, you pay $3 or above cash dividend. And so when you mentioned like sustainable, should we consider that as from an absolute amount point of view?

同樣在過去兩年，您支付 3 美元或以上的現金股息。因此，當您提到永續發展時，我們是否應該從絕對數量的角度考慮這一點？

It's both. It's blended. So you should blend the absolute dollar contract along with the dividend yield and also the payout ratio.

兩者都是。它是混合的。因此，您應該將絕對美元合約與股息收益率和支付率結合。

Got it. No problem. My last question is for Jason. And so I want to get your view on the overall semi outlook more specifically into 2025? And how do you think about UMC's adjustable foundry market growth for this year? Are you seeing any green shoots from consumer restocking or supply chain preview? Thank you.

知道了。沒問題。我的最後一個問題是問傑森的。所以我想了解您對 2025 年整體半前景的看法？您如何看待聯華電子今年可調整代工市場的成長？您是否看到消費者補貨或供應鏈預覽帶來任何復甦跡象？謝謝。

Sure, of course, for the semi outlook, I mean, it's our view that semiconductor industry were expecting to see a 10% growth in 2025, mainly driven by the high demand of AI servers as well some moderate growth in consumer electronics and increase the semiconductor content from the AI smartphone and AI PC notebook replacement.

當然，當然，對於半前景，我的意思是，我們認為半導體行業預計在 2025 年將增長 10%，這主要是由於人工智能服務器的高需求以及消費電子產品的溫和增長以及增加半導體內容來自AI智能手機和AI PC筆記本的替代。

So the dominance of growth still remains to be an AI server area. For the foundry, we expect the 2025 foundry market need to high teens percentage. Again, that includes the AI momentum. For the UMC addressable market, we have observed that inventory for consumer electronics have been digested to a healthy level, and the demand of this product is expected to grow moderately while we see the increase in content as well.

因此，成長的主導地位仍然是人工智慧伺服器領域。對於代工而言，我們預計 2025 年代工市場需要達到十幾位數的百分比。同樣，這也包括人工智慧的發展動能。對於聯華電子潛在市場，我們觀察到消費性電子產品的庫存已被消化至健康水平，預計該產品的需求將溫和增長，同時我們也看到內容的增加。

These factors will be the main driver for the about low single-digit growth in the mature market. So I think UMC addressable were projected at low single-digit growth for 2025. And for UMC, it's our goal that we will outgrow our addressable market while maintaining our structure profitability.

這些因素將成為成熟市場低個位數成長的主要動力。因此，我認為 2025 年聯電可尋址業務預計將實現低個位數成長。對聯華電子來說，我們的目標是在維持結構獲利能力的同時，超越我們的目標市場。

Thank you, Jason. [Last follow-up] Customers have started to see some upside from the supply chain preview ahead of the potential tariffs in first half position and provide this guidance of low single-digit growth for 2025. Have you considered some upside from that regard?

謝謝你，傑森。[最後跟進] 在上半年的潛在關稅之前，客戶已開始看到供應鏈預覽的一些好處，並提供了 2025 年低個位數增長的指導。您是否考慮過這方面的一些好處？

Can you repeat that again? I didn't -- I kind of break out on the beginning. Sorry.

你能再說一次嗎？我沒有──一開始我就爆發了。對不起。

No problem. Sorry about that. So just one quick follow-up. So when you mentioned this low single-digit growth for your addressable market for 2025, I wonder have you considered some upside from the potential supply chain preview ahead of tariffs? Because in recent few months, we have started to hear from fabless indicating that some rush orders are coming through from China ahead of the tariff.

沒問題。對此感到抱歉。因此，只需進行一次快速跟進。因此，當您提到 2025 年目標市場的低個位數成長時，我想知道您是否考慮過關稅之前潛在供應鏈預覽的一些好處？因為最近幾個月，我們開始聽到無晶圓廠表示，一些緊急訂單在關稅之前來自中國。

Yes, I got it. Okay. Well, for the Q1 -- for the Q1 guidance that we just provided, it is somewhat better than the traditional seasonality. We got shipment will be somewhat in flat. And the short-term visibility revamp still remains limited, partly because of nonfundamental factors are the US tariff.

是的，我明白了。好的。嗯，對於第一季——對於我們剛剛提供的第一季指導，它比傳統的季節性要好一些。我們收到的出貨量會有些持平。短期能見度的改善仍然有限，部分原因是美國關稅等非基本面因素。

We certainly hope that Q2 will grow sequentially. And the current projection, it's not 100% including those, but because of the lack of visibility, unless the Q2 can be sustainable, otherwise, we still project that will be a low single digit. In other words, that low single digit is not including the tariffs, but we did see better than the trade seasonality Q1 projection, yes.

我們當然希望第二季能夠連續成長。目前的預測，包括這些在內，並不是 100%，但由於缺乏可見性，除非第二季度能夠可持續，否則，我們仍然預測這將是一個較低的個位數。換句話說，這個低個位數不包括關稅，但我們確實看到了比第一季貿易季節性預測更好的情況，是的。

Got it. Very helpful. Thank you very much.

知道了。非常有幫助。非常感謝。

Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

戈庫爾·哈里哈蘭，摩根大通。

Yeah, hi. Gokul Hariharan here, thanks for taking my question. First question on pricing, Jason, what are we assuming -- are we basically taking a one-time price reduction across the spectrum, about 5% or something like that? Also, I wanted to understand, do you feel that you can hold off on any further price declines through the course of the year, given there seems to be both price pressure for larger competitors in Taiwan as well as price pressure from a lot of the new capacity on 28-nanometer in China as well?

是的，嗨。這裡是 Gokul Hariharan，感謝您提出我的問題。關於定價的第一個問題，傑森，我們假設什麼——我們基本上是在整個範圍內一次性降價，大約 5% 或類似的價格？另外，我想了解一下，鑑於台灣較大競爭對手似乎面臨價格壓力，以及來自許多製造商的價格壓力，您是否認為在這一年中可以推遲價格進一步下跌？

Of course. I mean we are experiencing that for the past years. And again, our pricing strategy remains unchanged. And we will -- but however, we do respect to follow the market price like we said in the past. At the beginning of the year, we always try there will be a one-off pricing adjustment. And the pricing outlook will resemble a similar pattern like 2024, which will be about a flattish year after the one-off adjustment.

當然。我的意思是，我們在過去幾年中一直在經歷這種情況。同樣，我們的定價策略保持不變。我們會——但是，我們確實尊重像我們過去所說的那樣遵循市場價格。在年初，我們總是嘗試進行一次性價格調整。定價前景將類似於 2024 年類似的模式，在一次性調整後，2024 年將是持平的一年。

And the -- to mitigate the market pressure, the pricing pressure, we'll continue to strengthen our product portfolio, and we do expect 22/28-nanometer revenue contribution will continue to increase and will represent a high 30% range for us and the growing tape-out momentum in 22 can mitigate the potential 28 competitions. It's our view that in 2025, we will continue working on differentiation from the industry peers in the mature foundry market.

為了減輕市場壓力和定價壓力，我們將繼續加強我們的產品組合，我們確實預計 22/28 奈米的收入貢獻將繼續增加，並將代表我們和 30% 的高範圍22 日漸增長的流片勢頭可以減輕28 日潛在的競爭。我們認為，到2025年，我們將在成熟的代工市場中繼續致力於與同行的差異化。

We know the competition is there. Geopolitically, the outlook taking place in the semiconductor industry is again unprecedented than we have experienced in the last year in 2024 as well. Some of the initiative is already happening and that -- against the supply chain resilience, the -- because of the oversupply situation in the industry.

我們知道競爭是存在的。從地緣政治角度來看，2024 年半導體產業的前景將再次前所未有。由於行業供應過剩的情況，一些措施已經在實施，而這與供應鏈的彈性相反。

Now for UMC, we are one of the few foundry suppliers who can support global fab operations. We have envisioned a need for diversified manufacturing strategy many years ago while at the same time, we believe the fundamental competitiveness is to strengthen our technology differentiation.

現在對於聯華電子來說，我們是少數能夠支援全球晶圓廠營運的代工供應商之一。我們多年前就預見了多元化製造策略的必要性，同時我們也認為最根本的競爭力是加強我們的技術差異化。

So in conclusion, our pricing strategy is unchanged compared to the previous year and we are gaining shares in our addressable market. And UMC's diversified manufacturing footprint and competitive technology offering will still set us apart from our peers. That's our view.

因此總而言之，我們的定價策略與前一年相比沒有變化，而且我們在目標市場中的份額正在增加。聯華電子的多元化製造足跡和具有競爭力的技術產品仍將使我們在同行中脫穎而出。這是我們的觀點。

Got it. Thanks, Jasn. So just one more question on pricing. I remember that a lot of LTA contracts were negotiated back in '21, came into force in 2022. Many of them were three-year -- three- to four-year kind of contract. So I presume a lot of them are coming up for renewal this year and probably next year.

知道了。謝謝，賈森。那麼還有一個關於定價的問題。我記得很多長期協議合約是在 21 年談判的，並於 2022 年生效。其中許多是三年——三到四年的合約。因此，我認為其中許多都會在今年甚至明年進行續訂。

How does that influence pricing? I'm sure clients are going to be asking for lower price given the current situation compared to back in 2021, 2022. So I just wanted to understand like not just for this year, but like going forward a couple of years, do we think that the price curve is generally going to be downward sloping given this pressure?

這對定價有何影響？考慮到目前的情況，與 2021 年、2022 年相比，我確信客戶會要求更低的價格。所以我只是想了解，不僅是今年，而且是未來幾年，考慮到這種壓力，我們是否認為價格曲線通常會向下傾斜？

I think pricing is one of it. The LTA, I mean the concept of LTA is really more of the mutual commitment from both customer and UMC that we have to commit and honor our agreement in improving capacity and while our partners and the customers remain committed, engaging with UMC on an ongoing basis and for the future growth. So fundamentally, this has never changed.

我認為定價是其中之一。LTA，我的意思是，LTA 的概念實際上更多的是客戶和UMC 雙方的共同承諾，即我們必須承諾並履行我們在提高產能方面的協議，同時我們的合作夥伴和客戶保持承諾，持續與UMC 合作以及未來的成長。所以從根本上來說，這一點從未改變。

Now the market dynamic doesn't put in some pressure on those LTAs. So we -- like I said, we are respected the market price dynamics. And we're closely working with our customers to navigate through this process and for -- in order for them to protect and continue to compete competitively in their marketplace. So there is ongoing discussion with our LTA owners and with the goal that we will continue working together going forward and help them to be competitive in the marketplace.

現在市場動態並沒有給這些長期協議帶來一些壓力。因此，正如我所說，我們尊重市場價格動態。我們正在與客戶密切合作，以完成此流程，以便他們能夠保護並繼續在市場上競爭。因此，我們正在與我們的長期協議所有者進行討論，目標是我們將繼續共同努力，幫助他們在市場上保持競爭力。

Gokul, do you mute yourself?

戈庫爾，你把自己靜音了嗎？

Yeah. Hi, sorry. Sorry about that. So maybe one last question. Could you talk a little bit about the capacity ramp for the Singapore fab? Are you taking a little bit of a slower cohorts of action? How much capacity do you expect to come online for the Singapore fab this year and potentially next year, and this CapEx kind of moderation now to $1.8 billion from $3 billion. Is that where we should expect it over the next couple of years? Or is it just a one-year thing?

是的。嗨，抱歉。對此感到抱歉。也許還有最後一個問題。能談談新加坡晶圓廠的產能提升嗎？您是否正在採取稍微慢一點的行動？您預計新加坡晶圓廠今年和明年可能會上線多少產能，資本支出現在從 30 億美元降至 18 億美元。這是我們未來幾年該期待的嗎？還是只是一年的事？

Sure. I mean the -- for the capacity expansion in 2025, our Singapore, the P3 production win is still on track. And for the January '26 -- in Stockholm January '26. So that milestone remains unchanged. However, the volume has somewhat adjusted. And so we following given the current market dynamics, we are and the customer alignment we are adjusting that rent profile, but the timing did not change.

當然。我的意思是，對於 2025 年的產能擴張，我們新加坡的 P3 生產勝利仍在軌道上。26 年 1 月－26 年 1 月在斯德哥爾摩。所以這個里程碑保持不變。不過，音量有所調整。因此，鑑於目前的市場動態，我們正在調整租金概況，但時間並沒有改變。

The 2024 CapEx mainly spending in the P3 building facility, and that is the major portion, which is already complete and deployed it. So for the CapEx projection going forward, we do not expect there will be any upticks on the current level.

2024 年的資本支出主要用於 P3 建設設施，這是主要部分，該設施已完成並部署。因此，對於未來的資本支出預測，我們預計當前水準不會有任何上升。

Okay. Understood. And lastly, gross margin, given Chi-Tung's guidance on depreciation, kind of high 20s kind of growth, revenue growth you're expecting, looks like mid-single digit. Are we -- is it fair to expect that gross margin stays in this mid-20s level through this year? Is that a fair kind of characterization of margins?

好的。明白了。最後，毛利率，考慮到 Chi-Tung 對折舊的指導，20 多歲的高成長，你預期的收入成長，看起來是中個位數。我們是否公平地期望今年毛利率維持在 20 多歲的水平？這是利潤的公平描述嗎？

It's difficult to guide the full year, especially on quarterly patterns for the gross margin right now. I think all we can say is we try very hard, at least from an EBITDA margin point of view to have intact structure, EBITDA margin. Of course, the depreciation numbers will go up continuously over the next two years. But our goal is really to have intact structure profitability. And hopefully, we will see more 22-nanometer shipment along with recovering capacity utilization rate to offset the increased cost side of the equation.

很難指導全年情況，尤其是目前毛利率的季度模式。我認為我們只能說我們非常努力，至少從 EBITDA 利潤率的角度來看，以保持完整的結構、EBITDA 利潤率。當然，未來兩年折舊數字還會不斷上升。但我們的目標實際上是擁有完整的獲利結構。希望我們能夠看到更多的 22 奈米出貨量以及產能利用率的恢復，以抵消成本增加的影響。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Brad Lin, Bank of America.

布拉德林，美國銀行。

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks, gentlemen for taking my questions. I have two questions. One is on the silicon interposer business outlook. Would you please share the latest updates and expansion plans for UMC's silicon interposer business? And also, beyond AI application, do you also foresee non-AI application adopting this kind of the well so-called technologies as well? Thank you.

嗨，下午好。謝謝先生們回答我的問題。我有兩個問題。一是關於矽中介層業務前景。請您分享一下聯華電子矽中介層業務的最新動態和擴張計劃？另外，除了人工智慧應用之外，您是否也預見到非人工智慧應用也會採用這種所謂的技術？謝謝。

Sure. For the silicon interposer business capacity, there's no plan to expand. And the -- some of the products already migrating to the next generation and we do have a product pipeline coming into this, but there is a cesium between that. So for the location in associated with the interposer as well as advanced packaging, we continue to see quite a bit of momentum in that.

當然。對於矽中介層業務產能，沒有計畫擴大。一些產品已經遷移到下一代，我們確實有一個產品管道進入這個領域，但這之間有一個銫。因此，對於與中介層以及先進封裝相關的位置，我們繼續看到相當大的動力。

And so I probably give you a bit of detail on that front is we -- our customers are seeing increased requirements for the communication bandwidth and energy efficiency point of view, particularly in the AI application. So we foresee there will be increased needs of integrated memory, logic and even sensors chiplet for the better AI performance.

因此，我可能會向您提供一些關於這方面的細節，我們的客戶看到對通訊頻寬和能源效率的要求不斷增加，特別是在人工智慧應用程式中。因此，我們預計，為了獲得更好的人工智慧性能，對整合記憶體、邏輯甚至感測器晶片的需求將會增加。

So we have broadened our packaging technology offering beyond this interposer, the 2.5 interposer and which will allow us to develop a new system architect with multiple partners enlarging our addressable market. So I mean, that's where we stand on the current interposers, which is -- and no expansion on that. But meanwhile, we're expanding our -- broadened our advanced packaging offering for the future engagement.

因此，我們擴大了我們的封裝技術產品範圍，超越了該中介層，即 2.5 中介層，這將使我們能夠與多個合作夥伴一起開發新的系統架構師，從而擴大我們的潛在市場。所以我的意思是，這就是我們對當前中介層的立場，並且沒有對此進行擴展。但同時，我們正在擴展我們的先進封裝產品，以適應未來的需求。

Thank you very much. That's pretty clear. It sounds like despite limited expansion, we should see more value addition and high utilization rate for this business line. Am I correct?

非常感謝。這很清楚。聽起來，儘管擴張有限，但我們應該會看到該業務線有更多的附加價值和高利用率。我說得對嗎？

Yeah, we do expect there will be a pipeline coming in and with numerous different products and applications.

是的，我們確實預計將會有一個管道進來，並包含許多不同的產品和應用程式。

Got it. Thank you very much. So my second question would be on the well geopolitical impacts on the customer orders. So have -- have you observed any significant share from the overseas clients due to the -- well, rising geopolitical dynamics? When does the management expect this to drive the revenue growth meaningfully? And also conversely, do you anticipate any downside risk from so-called China-for-China trend here? Thank you.

知道了。非常感謝。所以我的第二個問題是地緣政治對客戶訂單的影響。那麼，您是否觀察到由於地緣政治動態不斷上升，海外客戶的份額很大？管理階層預計什麼時候這會顯著推動營收成長？另一方面，您預計所謂的「中國換中國」趨勢會帶來任何下行風險嗎？謝謝。

I mean we don't see any downside. And in fact, we see multiple different directions. There is product moving into certain regions and some products is moving out to certain regions. So there are multiple dynamic and direction on those adjustments from our customer sourcing strategy.

我的意思是我們沒有看到任何缺點。事實上，我們看到了多個不同的方向。有產品轉移到某些地區，也有一些產品正在轉移到某些地區。因此，我們的客戶採購策略的調整有多種動態和方向。

And with UMC's diversified manufacturing side, that provide supply resilience to fulfill various customers from resourcing strategies or requirements. We actually do see -- we position ourselves well, and we welcome any opportunity from our customer. And currently, there are many ongoing projects that which will materialize after 2025.

憑藉聯華電子多元化的製造能力，可提供供應彈性，以滿足不同客戶的資源策略或需求。事實上，我們確實看到了——我們對自己的定位很好，我們歡迎客戶提供的任何機會。目前，有許多正在進行的項目將在 2025 年之後實現。

Thank you very much, Jason.

非常感謝你，傑森。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

陳查理，摩根士丹利。

Hello, Jason, Chi-Tung. First of all, Happy New Year. And the earthquake is a little bit unfortunate and hope your financial damage will be fully recovered later this year. So first of all, I was also very clear about your comments about second-quarter seasonality, Jason, if I -- can I double confirm that you said 2Q you're expecting fab utilization to go a little bit higher and above the seasonal. Can you clarify your comments about second-quarter growth? Thank you.

你好，傑森，志東。首先祝大家新年快樂。地震有點不幸，希望您的經濟損失能在今年稍後完全恢復。首先，我也非常清楚您對第二季度季節性的評論，傑森，如果我——我可以再次確認您所說的第二季度晶圓廠利用率將略高於季節性。您能否澄清一下您對第二季成長的看法？謝謝。

Well, first, thank you, and Happy New Year to you, too. In the -- we definitely will navigate through this earthquake situation very quickly, and we can recover and help our customers with their delivery -- urgent delivery and wafer shipments.

嗯，首先謝謝你，也祝你新年快樂。在——我們肯定會很快度過這次地震，我們可以恢復並幫助我們的客戶進行交付——緊急交付和晶圓運輸。

And now coming back to the Q2, it's too early to provide a Q2 guidance and we typically will provide quarterly guidance, out of the projection. What I said earlier it was -- our Q1 2025 is better than seasonality. It's better than we originally expected. The short-term visibility remains unlimited partly because the nonfundamental factors like this for the US tariffs in related to the US tariffs.

現在回到第二季度，現在提供第二季度指引還為時過早，我們通常會提供預測之外的季度指引。我之前說過，我們的 2025 年第一季比季節性好。這比我們最初預期的要好。短期能見度仍然無限，部分原因是美國關稅的非基本面因素與美國關稅有關。

We certainly hope -- why I said, we certainly hope that Q2 will grow sequentially. But at this point, the visibility remain low. So we just have to wait and see. Once we have occurred, we will provide more guidance. Meanwhile, we are confident with our current 22-nanometer product pipeline, which will enter production this year and to fill our 2025 second-half growth. So we expect to grow our revenue in 2025, mainly with the expectation that we will have the further launch of 22 starting in the second half of 2025.

我們當然希望——為什麼我說，我們當然希望第二季能夠連續成長。但此時，能見度仍然很低。所以我們只能拭目以待。一旦發生，我們將提供更多指導。同時，我們對目前的 22 奈米產品線充滿信心，該產品將於今年投入生產，並填補我們 2025 年下半年的成長。所以我們預計2025年我們的收入會成長，主要是預計我們會在2025年下半年開始進一步推出22。

Okay, got it. Thanks. Yeah. So by the way, you were very correct about last year's industry growth. So I think you said low single -- sorry, single-digit growth, right, and turns out to be like a 6% growth for overall foundry sector.

好的，明白了。謝謝。是的。順便說一句，您對去年行業成長的看法是非常正確的。所以我認為你說的是低個位數成長——抱歉，個位數成長，對吧，結果是整個代工產業成長了 6%。

So yeah, I also quite agree with you that inventory levels are quite healthy and semi content increase in PC smartphone probably will make this year a little bit better than last year. Yeah, switching gear to those are advanced packaging business, right? So I think last call you talked about interposer. But recently, there was a news talking about you probably will do wafer-on-wafer, right, which is kind of a 3D packaging for a US customer [due]

所以，是的，我也非常同意你的觀點，即庫存水平相當健康，而且 PC 智慧型手機的半內容增加可能會讓今年比去年好一點。是的，轉向那些先進的封裝業務，對嗎？所以我認為上次通話您談到了中介層。但最近有新聞說你們可能會做wafer-on-wafer，對吧，就是給美國客戶做的一種3D封裝[到期的]

So I want to talk more about these developments? And how do you compare your wafer-on-wafer or hybrid bonds take our to your industry peers like TSMC or SPIL. I think SPIL is more on the chip level 3D packaging, right? But just a kind of comparison between your 3D IC technology versus either TSMC, that would be great. Thank you.

所以我想多談談這些發展？您如何將晶圓對晶圓或混合債券與 TSMC 或 SPIL 等行業同行進行比較。我覺得SPIL更多的是晶片級3D封裝吧？但只要將您的 3D IC 技術與台積電的任一技術進行比較，那就太好了。謝謝。

Sure. Yeah. Well, first of all, you talk about projection. I do want to have some clarification on the inventory projection on our side. We see the DOI decrease as expected in the third quarter of 2024, what we have in the quarter in the past, that's indicating a stable demand in the end market.

當然。是的。嗯，首先，你談談投影。我確實想對我們這邊的庫存預測做一些澄清。我們看到 2024 年第三季的 DOI 出現預期下降，與過去該季度的情況相同，這表明終端市場需求穩定。

In terms of application, the DOI inventory for consumer are approaching a healthy level. However, the DOI remains relatively high in the automotive and industrial sectors, and we believe it will still take more time to that yet.

在應用方面，消費者的 DOI 庫存正在接近健康水準。然而，汽車和工業領域的 DOI 仍然相對較高，我們認為這仍需要更多時間。

So coming back to the advanced packaging. First of all, we typically do not comment on any market speculation and specific customers. Like I said, we are broadening our packaging technology offering beyond the 2.5 interposer, which we have shipped in the past. The wafer-on-wafer bonding is one of the capable technology that we provide. And in addition, that is also the interposer and so on. And so there are multiple technology offering and more like in the toolbox for us.

那麼回到高級封裝。首先，我們通常不會對任何市場猜測和特定客戶發表評論。正如我所說，我們正在擴大我們的封裝技術產品範圍，超越我們過去已經發貨的 2.5 中介層。晶圓對晶圓鍵結是我們提供的技術之一。除此之外，那就還有中介層等等。因此，我們的工具箱中提供了多種技術。

And so we do see the -- well the market direction is they are products on -- require a higher bandwidth and more efficient in many of the different applications. And then we can engage with our customers with those technology capability and tailored to their solution needs. So I think our current state is try to equip ourselves to be capable of doing so, then we'll be able to broaden our solutions and serve our customers to enlarge our addressable market.

因此，我們確實看到——市場方向是它們的產品——在許多不同的應用中需要更高的頻寬和更高的效率。然後，我們可以利用這些技術能力與客戶互動，並根據他們的解決方案需求量身定制。因此，我認為我們目前的狀態是努力使自己有能力做到這一點，然後我們將能夠擴大我們的解決方案並為我們的客戶提供服務，以擴大我們的目標市場。

I see. How about the optical-related application, I mean PIC, right, photonic IC. I remember to take and you also need hybrid bond, right? So I'm not sure you've -- UMC is also considering the kind of the CPO supply chain. I don't think there's kind of only, right? I think other customers like Broadcom, Mobile, they are also pushing these CPO. So does the UMC has any kind of plan to get into this market?

我懂了。光學相關的應用怎麼樣，我指的是PIC，對吧，光子IC。我記得拿，你也需要混合債券，對吧？所以我不確定你是否——UMC 也在考慮 CPO 供應鏈的類型。我不認為只有這樣，對吧？我認為博通、行動等其他客戶也在推動這些 CPO。那麼聯華電子有什麼計畫來進軍這個市場呢？

Well, certainly, I mean, we're not going to miss out any potential growth opportunity. When we talk about the increase the communication bandwidth in energy efficiency, it applies to many different applications, not limited to the current GPU and processors. And there are many others. And so the many others will probably require integrating memory logic like the GPU, but in the different bandwidth and also the different capability.

嗯，當然，我的意思是，我們不會錯過任何潛在的成長機會。當我們談論提高通訊頻寬的能源效率時，它適用於許多不同的應用，而不僅限於當前的GPU和處理器。還有很多其他的。因此，許多其他裝置可能需要像 GPU 一樣整合記憶體邏輯，但頻寬和功能不同。

So yes, we do see there will be a various applications that require such technologies. And so again, we believe by broadening our technology offering will help us to enlarge our addressable market without missing up.

所以，是的，我們確實看到會有各種應用程式需要此類技術。因此，我們再次相信，透過擴大我們的技術產品將有助於我們擴大我們的目標市場，而不會錯過。

Thank you. Yeah. And last one from me is really your key partner, Intel. So there was a organization change. So I'm not sure if you are comfortable to comment on share. What does that mean to your partnership with Intel? Any positive or negative given the recent senior management and CEO changes of Intel?

謝謝。是的。我的最後一位是你們的重要夥伴，英特爾。於是組織發生了變化。所以我不確定你是否願意對分享發表評論。這對您與英特爾的合作意味著什麼？鑑於英特爾最近的高階管理層和執行長的變動，有什麼正面或負面的影響？

What I can share with you is this strategic cooperation is definitely a rising for both companies. And our partner and us are both very committed to bring this most competitive 12-nanometer solution to the Western footprint. And we are seeing a very strong customer interest. We have been working closely and diligent to accelerate the delivery schedule since day one.

我可以跟大家分享的是，這次策略合作對雙方來說絕對是個上升。我們和我們的合作夥伴都非常致力於將這種最具競爭力的 12 奈米解決方案引入西方市場。我們看到客戶的興趣非常濃厚。從第一天起，我們就一直密切合作，努力加快交付進度。

And at the moment, we are verifying the silicon performance already for the pilot line, and we expect the early PDK will be ready for the first wave of customer by 2026 as planned. Therefore, we believe this collaboration will be beneficial for the industry, our customers and for both companies.

目前，我們正在驗證中試線的晶片效能，我們預計早期的 PDK 將按計劃在 2026 年為第一波客戶做好準備。因此，我們相信這種合作將對產業、我們的客戶以及兩家公司都有好處。

So I do not foresee any changes in this cooperation. And as of now, our key focus on WiFi connectivity, high-speed interface SoC product. In addition to cooperating on the 12-nanometer larger process, we are also exploring potential in specialty technology solution to further complement our portfolio with diverse product application. So we -- first of all, we are still very excited about the engagement, and we are very committed, and we see a very good progress at this point.

所以我預計這種合作不會有任何改變。截至目前，我們的重點關注WiFi連接、高速介面SoC產品。除了在12奈米更大製程方面進行合作外，我們還在探索專業技術解決方案的潛力，以透過多樣化的產品應用進一步補充我們的產品組合。因此，首先，我們仍然對這項合作感到非常興奮，我們非常堅定，目前我們看到了非常好的進展。

Got you. Thank you. Thanks, Jason. This is super helpful. Thank you.

明白你了。謝謝。謝謝，傑森。這非常有幫助。謝謝。

Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

盧小龍，高盛。

Hi, Jason. The first question is a quick one. The Europe business went quite a lot in the fourth quarter. But application wise, received in other application went on large in the fourth quarter. Can you tell us a little bit more detail? Do you have any market share gain there or any project win or what is the application which drive the Europe growth in fourth quarter?

嗨，傑森。第一個問題是一個很快的問題。第四季歐洲業務成長勢頭強勁。但就申請而言，第四季度收到的其他申請數量較多。能告訴我們更多細節嗎？您在那裡有任何市場份額增長或任何項目獲勝，或者推動第四季度歐洲增長的應用程式是什麼？

Chi-Tung, commented about this earlier, the pickup in the Q4 automotive business really reflecting is the customer's modulation for their inventory management. So we see this one-off uptrend and then we'll align that to the end market, which I also touched on the inventory situation, the automotive small automotive and industrial sectors events remains high, and it will still take more time to digest. There's more of inventory (inaudible)

智通早前對此評論道，第四季汽車業務的回升，真正反映的是客戶對庫存管理的調整。因此，我們看到了這一一次性的上升趨勢，然後我們將其與終端市場保持一致，我也談到了庫存情況，汽車和工業部門的小型事件仍然很高，仍然需要更多的時間來消化。庫存還多了（聽不清楚）

Okay. Next one is for your ASP, which down by mid-single digit in first quarter. Is there a product mix issue or mostly for the one-off? I mean -- or is it pretty much mid-single digit across different nodes or any specific has higher price erosion than other notes for example, like 28 or 8-inch versus 12-inch?

好的。下一個是關於您的平均售價，第一季下降了中個位數。是否有產品組合問題或主要是一次性問題？我的意思是——或者它在不同節點上的價格幾乎是中等個位數，或者任何特定的價格比其他紙幣（例如 28 或 8 英寸與 12 英寸）有更高的侵蝕？

Right. I mean, you're absolutely right. It's a blended base. The one-off mid-single digit is at a blended base. There are some -- the note that actual commodity like solutions, they have deeper erosion. And while we have a differentiated technology have lower erosion and then combining with the product mix for the quarter, and then we'll try to manage that at a one-off at a mid-level single-digit adjustment.

正確的。我的意思是，你是完全正確的。這是一個混合基地。一次性中個位數處於混合基數。有一些 - 請注意，像解決方案這樣的實際商品，它們具有更深的侵蝕。雖然我們擁有差異化技術，但侵蝕程度較低，然後與本季度的產品組合相結合，然後我們將嘗試一次性進行中等個位數的調整來管理這一點。

Can I assume your 28 is differentiated with lower than mid-single-digit erosion?

我可以假設您的 28 具有低於中個位數侵蝕的差異化嗎？

Yeah, I can't really comment on every single node, but I can tell you, not only at 28 and 22 and some other specialty technology as well has a better above the -- lower than the average blended basis and some are higher.

是的，我無法真正評論每個節點，但我可以告訴你，不僅在 28 和 22 以及其他一些專業技術上，還有更好的——低於平均混合基礎，有些甚至更高。

Lower end -- which means that ASPs lower than the corporate average of mid-single digit for 28 and 22?

低端——這意味著 ASP 低於 28 和 22 的公司平均個位數？

Yes. So that is the if the blended is 5%, I mean some are smaller than 5%, some are higher than 5%.

是的。所以這就是如果混合是 5%，我的意思是有些小於 5%，有些高於 5%。

Okay. One last one is that you consider -- as you mentioned, you are the only one who can manufactured wafer in different geographical location. And TSMC could make it clear that they charge premium in non-Taiwan capacity. Do you consider to charge premium for your Singapore Japan fab with higher pricing?

好的。最後一件事是您考慮的——正如您所提到的，您是唯一能夠在不同地理位置製造晶圓的人。台積電可以明確表示，他們對非台灣產能收取溢價。您是否考慮以更高的價格為您的新加坡日本晶圓廠收取溢價？

I mean the pricing is an important topic, right? I mean we continue aligning with our customers with the angle that we need to help them to compete in their marketplace. So we will respect and follow that market pricing. And from a strategy point, the view that we unchanged. But from a competitiveness point of view, we will continue aligning with our customers to maintaining that.

我的意思是定價是一個重要的話題，對嗎？我的意思是，我們將繼續與客戶保持一致，以幫助他們在市場上競爭所需的角度。因此，我們將尊重並遵循市場定價。而從策略角度來看，我們的觀點並沒有改變。但從競爭力的角度來看，我們將繼續與客戶保持一致，以維持這一點。

Now it's important to note that we look at this market in a way that we believe our market is growing in the low single digit and we want to position ourselves, still gaining share in our addressable market while striking a balance between the growth and profitability, which we have shown in the consistently in our financial performance and with a resilient track record in the past.

現在值得注意的是，我們看待這個市場的方式是，我們相信我們的市場正在以較低的個位數增長，我們希望定位自己，仍然在我們的目標市場中獲得份額，同時在增長和盈利能力之間取得平衡，我們在過去一貫的財務表現和富有彈性的業績記錄中證明了這一點。

And it's our belief that with a healthy financial structure, we have the flexibility to continue to invest in the technology development and broaden our offering and for our future growth. So we want to stay competitive. But meanwhile, we want to manage that balance.

我們相信，憑藉健康的財務結構，我們可以靈活地繼續投資於技術開發並擴大我們的產品範圍和未來的成長。所以我們想保持競爭力。但同時，我們希望管理這種平衡。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Jason Zhang, CLSA.

張傑，里昂證券。

Thank you for taking my question. My first question is in terms of your target utilization rates. As your competitor in China, now I think their utilization rate already reached to a very high level. So I just want to know which kind of levels of your utilization rate is more reasonable for UMC and for this year or in coming year? Thank you.

感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於你們的目標利用率。作為你們在中國的競爭對手，現在我認為他們的利用率已經達到了很高的水準。所以我只想知道聯華電子今年或來年的使用率處於哪種水平比較合理？謝謝。

Well, we always strive for -- to increase the utilization rate, but not an unreasonable expense to gain that. Right now, the current projection is about 70% level utilization, corporate average. The -- some of them have a higher utilization. Someone has lower, for instance, or 8-inch loading still under the recovery mode and which we will continue to strengthen our offering and hopefully, we can recover that in the longer term. But right now, they are below the corporate average.

嗯，我們一直在努力提高利用率，但不會為此付出不合理的費用。目前，預計利用率約為 70%，為企業平均。其中一些具有更高的利用率。例如，有些人的負載較低，或者 8 英寸仍在恢復模式下，我們將繼續加強我們的產品，希望我們能夠在長期內恢復這一點。但目前，它們低於公司平均。

Our 28 and 22 is actually above the corporate average. And we continue to see strong momentum in the tape-outs and so I think in general, okay answer Bruce, I try to strike a balance between that and 70% right now is not -- I will not say high, but I think it will be a right number for us to maintaining that balance at this point. But of course, we'll continue striking for better utilization rates. Yeah.

我們的28和22實際上高於公司平均。我們繼續看到流片的強勁勢頭，所以我認為總的來說，好的回答布魯斯，我試圖在這之間取得平衡，現在 70% 不是——我不會說高，但我認為它將是我們目前維持這種平衡的正確數字。但當然，我們將繼續爭取更高的利用率。是的。

Got it. So -- my second question is in terms of your competition. So I think your Chinese competitor already had a very high utilization rate. So have you seen lower competition from those Chinese players in this year?

知道了。所以——我的第二個問題是關於你們的競爭。所以我認為你們的中國競爭對手已經擁有非常高的利用率。那麼今年中國選手的競爭有沒有減少呢？

I mean the -- I can't really comment about the competitors behavior. But the bottom line is we need to stay competitive and competitively in many aspects, our ASP need to be competitive, the solution needs to be competitive, your manufacturing performance needs to be competitive.

我的意思是——我無法真正評論競爭對手的行為。但底線是我們需要在許多方面保持競爭力和競爭力，我們的 ASP 需要具有競爭力，解決方案需要具有競爭力，您的製造性能需要具有競爭力。

So I think, again, we look at all aspects and striking a balance on that. And we think this is not a onetime or short-term situation. We need to stay competitive in the long run. If we look at this, in 2025, we project we will outgrow our addressable market, okay? And whether they have -- that's -- whether they are less pricing pressure or continued pricing pressure, we believe we will outgrow our addressable market.

所以我認為，我們會考慮各個方面並在此方面取得平衡。我們認為這不是一次性或短期的情況。從長遠來看，我們需要保持競爭力。如果我們看看這個，到 2025 年，我們預計我們的成長將超過我們的目標市場，好嗎？無論他們是否有——也就是說——無論他們的定價壓力較小還是持續的定價壓力，我們相信我們的成長將超過我們的目標市場。

We are working on several new initiatives to drive even driving our future growth, enhance our current portfolio, expanding our addressable market. Like I said, the -- from our current portfolio, we're advancing our specialty technology road map, for example, high voltage. We launched the industry first 22-nanometer in May 2024 to sustain our leading position to the next-generation handset, beside that, beside handsets, the customer already adopted our Hile platform for OLED next-generation tablets, laptops.

我們正在製定多項新舉措，以推動我們未來的成長，增強我們目前的產品組合，擴大我們的目標市場。正如我所說，從我們目前的產品組合來看，我們正在推進我們的專業技術路線圖，例如高壓。我們於2024年5月推出了業界首款22奈米工藝，以維持我們在下一代手機領域的領先地位，此外，除了手機之外，客戶已經在OLED下一代平板電腦、筆記型電腦上採用了我們的Hile平台。

And so we'll continue to drive our road map into the 14 (inaudible) solution to further extend our leadership. So in that front, I think we can capture the growth and not continue fighting in in the same space. In terms of -- in large addressable market, we talked about our 12-nanometer cooperation that provides technology no advancement and addressing high-growth margin. Early engage customers already shown strong interest, and they will put in the production. We will put in our production schedule.

因此，我們將繼續推動我們的路線圖進入第 14 個（聽不清楚）解決方案，以進一步擴大我們的領導地位。因此，在這方面，我認為我們可以抓住成長機會，而不是繼續在同一領域內戰鬥。就大型潛在市場而言，我們討論了我們的 12 奈米合作，該合作不會提供技術進步並解決高成長率問題。早期接觸的客戶已經表現出濃厚的興趣，並會投入生產。我們將列入我們的生產計劃。

And the feedback is great, and our solution will be very competitive. And again, that's a differentiation from that. And I talked about that we want to provide advanced packaging solution to serve AI application with a high growth potential. And we continue to broaden that offering and develop that. I talked about that, we need to have financial strength to continue to invest in the area that we can fuel the future growth.

反饋非常好，我們的解決方案將非常有競爭力。再說一次，這是與此的區別。我談到我們希望提供先進的封裝解決方案來服務具有高成長潛力的人工智慧應用。我們將繼續擴大並發展該產品。我談到，我們需要有財務實力來繼續投資於能夠推動未來成長的領域。

So I think there is -- the growth opportunity still lies in this industry because the industry is growing in combination with our current portfolio enhancement, the enlarged addressable market with the right financial model that fuel our future investments to capture those growth, I think we will differentiate from that.

因此，我認為成長機會仍然存在於這個行業，因為該行業的成長與我們當前投資組合的增強、擴大的潛在市場以及正確的財務模式相結合，可以推動我們未來的投資以捕捉這些成長，我認為我們將與此區分開來。

And I certainly not try to -- just competing with the current utilization number. But in a way, we try to strive to very balanced, very healthy corporation that can continue to invest in the future and to be relevant in this industry. I maybe give you a little bit more, but I think that's sort of how we feel about this.

我當然不會嘗試——只是與當前的利用率競爭。但在某種程度上，我們努力成為一個非常平衡、非常健康的公司，能夠繼續投資未來並在這個行業中發揮重要作用。我可能會給你更多一點，但我想這就是我們對此的感受。

Okay. Got it. My last question is in terms of the demand side. So in terms of your application portfolio, I mean which segments did you see as a better demand? I mean, such as computers, consumer or smartphone? And have you seen the demand recovery after Chinese government subsidy in Q1 or in Q4?

好的。知道了。我的最後一個問題是關於需求方面的。那麼就您的應用程式組合而言，我的意思是您認為哪些細分市場有更好的需求？我的意思是，例如電腦、消費者或智慧型手機？您是否看到第一季或第四季中國政府補貼後需求的復甦？

So first, for Q1 outlook, we expect the revenue contribution in consumer segment will increase due to strength in WiFi, digital TV, set-top box and display drivers. And the rest of the seven is either flat or slightly decline. We talked about the Q1 outlook despite that the consumer is stronger, but we think it could trigger by either the tariffs or the subsidy.

首先，對於第一季的前景，我們預計由於 WiFi、數位電視、機上盒和顯示器驅動器的強勁成長，消費領域的營收貢獻將會增加。其餘七家要不是持平，就是略有下降。我們討論了第一季的前景，儘管消費者走強，但我們認為這可能是由關稅或補貼引發的。

And because we do see the has better than additional seasonality behavior. However, we're just hoping that Q2 can sustain that. At this point, due to the limited visibility, we couldn't give you the Q2 guidance, but Q1 is better than the Q1 is better than seasonality.

因為我們確實看到比額外的季節性行為更好。然而，我們只是希望第二季度能夠維持這一勢頭。目前，由於可見性有限，我們無法為您提供第二季的指導，但第一季比第一季比季節性更好。

Okay. Thank you. I have no more questions. Thank you very much.

好的。謝謝。我沒有更多問題了。非常感謝。

Brad Lin, Bank of America.

布拉德林，美國銀行。

Thank you for taking my question. So one follow-up. So as Jason highlights that advanced packaging is a key business growth driver for UMC in to outpace the industry and also for the future growth while being on the disciplined CapEx number itself, should we also expect higher portion of the CapEx spend by UMC in the future to increase for this advanced packaging kind of the service like our well industry leader?

感謝您回答我的問題。所以一個後續。因此，Jason 強調，先進封裝是 UMC 超越行業的關鍵業務成長動力，也是未來成長的關鍵，同時遵守嚴格的資本支出數字本身，我們是否也應該預期 UMC 未來的資本支出支出比例會更高像我們井行業領導者一樣增加這種先進包裝類型的服務？

Well, I mean, once -- in our business is actually two major investments. One is invested in the technology development, the second invest into the CapEx. Once the technology is developed and the customer aligns in place, we'll certainly deploy the capacity investment. So the CapEx will have that. Now given our past few years of CapEx investment, given the current market dynamics, I think those advanced packaging CapEx would not affect the major trend of our CapEx projection. I think It will be still within our current trend.

嗯，我的意思是，在我們的業務中，實際上有兩次重大投資。一是投資技術開發，二是投資資本支出。一旦技術開發出來並且客戶就位，我們肯定會部署產能投資。所以資本支出將會有這個。現在考慮到我們過去幾年的資本支出投資，考慮到當前的市場動態，我認為那些先進的封裝資本支出不會影響我們資本支出預測的主要趨勢。我認為這仍然在我們當前的趨勢範圍內。

Thank you. I got it. That's very clear. And then that's my only question to follow up. Thank you. Happy New year, by the way.

謝謝。我得到了它。這非常清楚。這是我唯一要跟進的問題。謝謝。順便說一句，新年快樂。

Thank you. And we thank you for all your questions. That concludes today's Q&A session. I'll turn things over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks. Thank you.

謝謝。我們感謝您提出的所有問題。今天的問答環節到此結束。我會將事情轉交給 UMC IR 主管進行總結發言。謝謝。

Thank you for attending this conference today. We appreciate your questions. As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at [IR at www.umc.com] Have a good day.

感謝您參加今天的這次會議。我們感謝您的提問。像往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時透過 [IR at www.umc.com] 聯繫 UMC，祝您有美好的一天。

And we will also take this moment to wish everyone a Happy New Year. Happy Chinese New Year. Happy New Year to everyone. Thank you.

我們也藉此機會祝大家新年快樂。農曆新年快樂。祝大家新年快樂。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for 4Q '24. Thank you for your participation in UMC's conference. There will be a webcast replay within 2 hours. Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors, Events section. You may now disconnect. Thank you, and goodbye.

女士們、先生們，我們 24 年第四季的會議到此結束。感謝您參加聯華電子的會議。2小時內將進行網路直播重播。請造訪 www.umc.com 的「投資者」、「活動」部分。您現在可以斷開連線。謝謝你，再見。