聯華電子 (UMC) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to UMC's 2025 third quarter earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) For your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet. Webcast replay will be available within two hours after the conference is finished. Please visit our website, www.umc.com, under the Investor Relations, Investors, Events section. Now I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations at UMC. Mr. Lin, please begin.

歡迎各位參加 UMC 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，本次電話會議正在透過網路進行現場直播。會議結束後兩小時內即可觀看網路直播回放。請造訪我們的網站 www.umc.com，在「投資者關係」、「投資者」、「活動」部分查看相關資訊。現在我謹向大家介紹聯電投資者關係主管林先生。林先生，請開始。

Thank you, and welcome to UMC's conference call for the third quarter of 2025. I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, President of UMC; and Mr. Chitung Liu, the CFO of UMC. In a moment, we will hear our CFO present the third quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMC's focus and fourth quarter 2025 guidance.

謝謝，歡迎參加 UMC 2025 年第三季電話會議。今天與我一同出席的有聯美醫療總裁王先生和聯美醫療財務長劉志東先生。稍後，我們將聽取財務長介紹第三季財務業績，隨後是總裁關於 UMC 重點工作和 2025 年第四季業績展望的重要演講。

Once our President and CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A session. UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investors, Financial section.

總裁和財務長致詞結束後，將進行問答環節。UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的「投資者」和「財務」部分查閱。

During this conference, we may make forward-looking statements based on management's current expectations and beliefs. These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond the company's control.

在本次會議期間，我們可能會根據管理階層目前的預期和信念發表前瞻性聲明。這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定因素的影響，可能導致實際結果與預期結果有重大差異，其中包括公司無法控制的風險。

For a more detailed description of these risks and uncertainties, please refer to our recent and subsequent filings with the SEC and the ROC security authorities. During this conference, you may view our financial presentations material, which is being broadcast live through the Internet.

有關這些風險和不確定性的更詳細描述，請參閱我們近期及後續向美國證券交易委員會和中華民國證券監管機構提交的文件。會議期間，您可以觀看我們的財務簡報資料，這些資料將透過網路進行現場直播。

Now I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Chitung Liu, to discuss UMC's third quarter 2025 financial results.

現在我謹介紹聯電財務長劉志東先生，請他談談聯電2025年第三季的財務表現。

Thank you, Michael. I'd like to go through the third quarter 2025 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded or viewed in real time from our website. Starting on Page 4, the third quarter of 2025. Consolidated revenue was 59.13 billion, with gross margin at 29.8%. Net income attributable to 14.98 billion and the earnings per ordinary share were TWD1.2.

謝謝你，麥可。我想瀏覽一下 2025 年第三季投資者會議的簡報資料，這些資料可以從我們的網站下載或即時查看。從第 4 頁開始，2025 年第三季。合併收入為 591.3 億，毛利率為 29.8%。歸屬於股東的淨利為149.8億新台幣，每股普通股收益為1.2新台幣。

Capacity utilization rate climbed to 78% in that quarter with wafer shipment just marked 1 million 12-inch equivalent wafers.

該季度產能利用率攀升至 78%，晶圓出貨量剛好達到 100 萬片 12 吋等效晶圓。

On Page 5, on the sequential comparison, third quarter revenue of 59.12 billion increased slightly compared to the previous quarter, mainly due to higher wafer shipment. Although the NT dollar exchange rate was an unfavorable factor of around 3%. Gross margin also climbed on back of the better capacity utilization rate to 29.8%. And net income reached nearly TWD15 billion or an EPS of TWD1.2 per share in NT dollar terms.

第 5 頁顯示，與上一季相比，第三季營收為 591.2 億美元，略有成長，主要原因是晶圓出貨量增加。儘管新台幣匯率存在約 3% 的不利因素。由於產能利用率提高，毛利率也攀升至 29.8%。淨利達到近150億新台幣，即每股收益1.2新台幣。

Year-over-year comparison, on Page 6, for the first three quarters, revenue grew 2.2% year over year to TWD175.7 billion. Gross margin was around 28.4% or nearly TWD50 billion for the first three quarters of 2025.

在第 6 頁，與去年同期相比，前三個季度的營收年增 2.2%，達到 1,757 億新台幣。2025 年前三個季度的毛利率約為 28.4%，或接近 500 億新台幣。

Overall, net income for the first three quarters is down to TWD2.54 per share compared to TWD3.12 in the previous three quarters of 2024. On Page 7, cash still above TWD100 billion and total equity of the company is now TWD361 billion at the end of third quarter of 2025.

總體而言，前三個季度的淨利潤為每股新台幣 2.54 元，而 2024 年前三個季度的淨利潤為每股新台幣 3.12 元。截至第 7 頁，截至 2025 年第三季末，公司現金仍超過 1,000 億新台幣，總權益為 3,610 億新台幣。

ASP on Page 8 shows we remain firm for the past two quarters. On Page 9, for revenue breakdown, we see that the North America represents about 25% of the total revenue in the third quarter which is 5% higher compared to 20% in the previous quarter. On the contrary, Asia declined by nearly 4 percentage points to 63% in the third quarter of 2025. IDM versus fibers remain unchanged on Page 10 for the third quarter of 2025.

第 8 頁的平均售價顯示，過去兩季我們的業績依然強勁。從第 9 頁的營收明細來看，北美地區在第三季佔總營收的約 25%，比上一季的 20% 高出 5%。相反，2025 年第三季亞洲的比例下降了近 4 個百分點，至 63%。2025 年第三季 IDM 與光纖的比較在第 10 頁保持不變。

On Page 11, we noticed the communication and computers catch up in terms of sales mix when consumers declined by nearly 4 percentage points to 29% in the third quarter.

在第 11 頁，我們注意到，在第三季消費者佔比下降近 4 個百分點至 29% 的情況下，通訊和電腦在銷售組合方面迎頭趕上。

On Page 12, the segment sales breakdown by technology, 22 and 28 still remain our main technology. Now when 22 continue to climb in terms of percentage total 22 and 28 revenue reached about 35%. For 40 nanometer and 65 nanometer revenue somewhat unchanged in about 17% and 18%, respectively.

在第 12 頁，按技術劃分的細分市場銷售額中，22 和 28 仍然是我們的主要技術。現在，22 的百分比繼續攀升，總收入達到約 35%。40 奈米和 65 奈米製程的收入分別略有變化，約 17% 和 18%。

For our quarterly capacity for the third quarter, we see a minor increase coming out of our 12x Xiamen fab with now the monthly capacity is nearly 32,000 wafers per month and total available capacity will remain flat for the coming quarters.

對於我們第三季的季度產能，我們看到廈門 12x 晶圓廠的產能略有成長，目前月產能接近 32,000 片晶圓，未來幾季的總可用產能將保持不變。

On the last page of my presentation, our annual CapEx is heading to our budget number of 1.8 billion with 90% in 12 inch and 10% in 8 inch. The above is a summary of UMC results for third quarter of 2025. More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website.

在我的簡報的最後一頁，我們的年度資本支出正朝著 18 億美元的預算目標邁進，其中 90% 用於 12 吋螢幕，10% 用於 8 吋螢幕。以上是 UMC 2025 年第三季業績概要。更多詳情請參閱已發佈在我們網站上的報告。

I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Jason Wang.

現在我將把電話交給 UMC 的總裁 Jason Wang 先生。

Thank you, Chitung. Good evening, everyone. Here, I would like to share UMC's third quarter results. In the third quarter, we offered demand growth across most market levels, which drove a 3.4% increase in wafer shipments and improved utilization rate to 78%. In particular, we benefited from a pickup in sales of smartphones and notebooks, driving replenishment orders from customers.

謝謝你，奇通。各位晚上好。在此，我想和大家分享一下UMC第三季的業績。第三季度，我們在大多數市場層面都實現了需求成長，這推動晶圓出貨量成長了 3.4%，利用率提高到 78%。尤其值得一提的是，智慧型手機和筆記型電腦的銷售回升，帶動了客戶的補貨訂單。

Our 22 nanometer technology platform continues to provide us with the differentiation in the market, with 22 nanometer revenue now accounting for more than 10% of the total sales in 2025 alone, we are projecting over 50 product payouts, and we expect 22 nanometer contribution will continue to increase in 2026.

我們的 22 奈米技術平台繼續為我們在市場上提供差異化優勢，22 奈米技術的收入在 2025 年就佔總銷售額的 10% 以上，我們預計將有超過 50 種產品獲得收益，並且我們預計 22 奈米技術的貢獻將在 2026 年繼續增長。

Aligned with our strategy of providing customers with highly differentiated specialty technologies, we recently announced the readiness of our 25 nanometer BCD platform. In addition to mobile and consumer applications, the new platform is also complement with the most rigorous automotive standards for automotive and industrial yields.

為了配合我們為客戶提供高度差異化的特殊技術的策略，我們最近宣布我們的 25 奈米 BCD 平台已準備就緒。除了行動和消費性應用外，此新平台還符合最嚴格的汽車產業標準，可提高汽車和工業產量。

Looking ahead to the fourth quarter, we are anticipating wafer shipment to be comparable with third quarter volumes writing up 2025 with shipment growth in the low teens. UMC continues to deliver competitive process technologies by enabled diverse applications, which position the company to benefit from a broad-based market recovery.

展望第四季度，我們預期晶圓出貨量將與第三季的出貨量相當，到 2025 年，出貨量將成長 10% 左右。UMC持續提供具有競爭力的製程技術，並支援各種應用，這使得公司能夠從廣泛的市場復甦中受益。

With the 22 nanometer logic and specialty platform, in particular, we expect to drive growth. Now let's move on to fourth quarter 2025 guidance. Our wafer shipment will remain flat. ASP in US dollar will remain firm. Gross margin will be approximately in the high 20% range. Capacity utilization rate will be in the mid-70% range. Our 2025 cash base CapEx budget will remain unchanged at USD1.8 billion.

特別是憑藉 22 奈米邏輯和特殊元件平台，我們期望能夠推動成長。現在我們來看看2025年第四季的業績展望。我們的晶圓出貨量將保持穩定。以美元計價的平均售價將維持堅挺。毛利率大約在20%以上。產能利用率將在70%左右。我們2025年的現金資本支出預算將維持不變，為18億美元。

That concludes my comments. Thank you all for your attention. Now we are ready for questions.

我的發言到此結束。謝謝大家的關注。現在我們準備回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

[Hash Lu, Bank of America].

[Hash Lu，美國銀行]

My first question is regarding the near-term outlook. Could you discuss more in detail on how you see the business by end market is trending into the current quarter in fourth quarter? Since the guidance is above seasonal. So just wondering if there's anything driving that? And also just your initial view into first half next year. Could you get feedback from your customers on the potential restocking? Or in general, they are still pretty conservative at this stage.

我的第一個問題是關於近期前景的。您能否更詳細地談談您對第四季終端市場業務發展趨勢的看法？由於指導意見高於季節性水平。所以我想知道背後有什麼原因嗎？以及您對明年上半年的初步看法。您能否向顧客徵求一下關於補貨的回饋意見？或者總的來說，他們現階段仍然相當保守。

Sure. I mean, while we're going into Q4, we can -- as I said, we wrap up the 2025 shipments to low teens. It's now that we project the 2025 shipment growth was supported by our differentiated 22 nanometer technology and other specialty offerings across both 12 and 8 inch amid a broad-based market demand recovery.

當然。我的意思是，雖然我們即將進入第四季度，但正如我所說，我們可以將 2025 年的出貨量控制在十幾個百分點以內。我們現在預計，2025 年出貨量的成長得益於我們差異化的 22 奈米技術以及在 12 吋和 8 吋範圍內提供的其他特殊產品，同時市場需求也在全面復甦。

On the 12-inch size, shipment growth was driven by a strong momentum from 22 nanometer logic for ISP, Wi-Fi connectivity as well as the high-end smartphone display driver I see. In addition to 22 and 28, overall 12 inch wafer shipment will outpace our addressable market due to our comprehensive value-added specialty portfolio of non-volatile memory, RFSOI and BCD.

就 12 吋尺寸而言，出貨量成長主要得益於 22 奈米邏輯晶片在 ISP、Wi-Fi 連接以及高階智慧型手機顯示器驅動方面的強勁發展勢頭。除了 22 吋和 28 吋晶圓外，由於我們全面的非揮發性記憶體、RFSOI 和 BCD 加值特種產品組合，12 吋晶圓的整體出貨量將超過我們的目標市場。

On the 8 inch side, we expect a high single-digit growth in 2025, mainly led by the PMIC and LDDI. So in summary, the strength of 22-nanometer and the specialty process across both 12 inch and 8 inch platform underpin our confidence in achieving a low teen percentage shipment growth in 2025.

在 8 吋方面，我們預計 2025 年將實現高個位數成長，主要由 PMIC 和 LDDI 引領。綜上所述，22 奈米技術的優勢以及 12 吋和 8 吋平台上的特種工藝，使我們有信心在 2025 年實現十幾個百分點的出貨量成長。

So for 2025 Q4, we remain -- the shipment outlook remained flat. If we're looking into the early look of 2026, I think we're still going to experience some seasonality. But if I look at the entire year despite the ongoing global economic, geopolitical uncertainty, we believe the our 2025 business growth momentum will continue into 2026, where we expect wafer shipment will increase year over year.

因此，對於 2025 年第四季度，我們仍然認為——出貨量前景保持穩定。如果我們展望2026年的早期情況，我認為我們仍然會感受到一些季節性因素。但縱觀全年，儘管全球經濟和地緣政治持續存在不確定性，我們相信 2025 年的業務成長勢頭將推遲到 2026 年，我們預計晶圓出貨量將逐年增長。

In addition to from a 10 expansion on 22 EV -- 22 nanometer EV platform, which is serving the high-end smartphone or lapse display drive application will be one of the key growth engines.

除了 22 奈米 EV 平台的 10 次擴展之外，服務於高階智慧型手機或延時顯示驅動應用的 22 奈米 EV 平台將成為關鍵的成長引擎之一。

We expect the overall 22 and 28 nanometer revenue to achieve double-digit year-over-year growth in 2026. However, there's still going to be some seasonality that we may have to go through. So Q1 may be one of the challenging quarter for the year. Supported by the strong customer adoption of our 22 nanometer technology, in addition, our technology readiness in RFSOI and smartphone strong end device will also fuel our growth in 2026.

我們預計 2026 年 22 奈米和 28 奈米技術的整體收入將實現兩位數的同比增長。然而，我們仍然需要經歷一些季節性因素。因此，第一季可能是今年最具挑戰性的季度之一。此外，由於客戶對我們 22 奈米技術的強勁接受度，以及我們在 RFSOI 和智慧型手機終端設備方面的技術準備，也將推動我們在 2026 年實現成長。

And beside the growth of the Communications segment, we also foresee our enhanced version of PMIC solution will also continue to drive recovery in our 8 inch segment. In 2025, we foresee PMIC business will grow in the high single-digit range, and this growth momentum will extend into 2026.

除了通訊領域的成長外，我們還預計我們增強版的 PMIC 解決方案也將繼續推動 8 吋領域的復甦。我們預計 2025 年 PMIC 業務將實現高個位數成長，並且這種成長動能將推遲到 2026 年。

Our effort on the enhancing our technology competitiveness, particularly for the PMIC application have started to yield some tangible results. And that will actually help us with the -- to strengthen our position in this market segment and for 2026 growth. If we look beyond 2026, we will continue to develop new derivative technology to enhance our differentiate and enhance our competitive position.

我們在提昇技術競爭力方面所做的努力，特別是針對電源管理積體電路（PMIC）應用的努力，已經開始取得一些實質成果。這實際上將有助於我們鞏固在該細分市場中的地位，並實現 2026 年的成長。展望 2026 年後，我們將繼續開發新的衍生技術，以增強我們的差異化優勢，並提升我們的競爭地位。

Furthermore, we're expanding our addressable market into 12 nano fintech, as you know, and as well as the sound of the advanced packaging space, the UMC portfolio -- the technology portfolio is well positioned to serve a growing demand of the power efficiency optimization and high-bandwidth data transfer as well as to improve the connectivity. So I think in general, we are relatively confident in 2026, but it's still kind of early to go into the quarterly guidance.

此外，如您所知，我們正在將目標市場擴展到 12 個奈米金融科技領域，以及先進封裝領域，UMC 的產品組合——該技術組合能夠很好地滿足日益增長的電源效率優化和高頻寬數據傳輸需求，並改善連接性。所以我認為整體而言，我們對 2026 年比較有信心，但現在給出季度業績指引還為時過早。

And I think just a quick follow-up to my first question is just when you mentioned the growth momentum would continue into 2026 compared with 2025, are you saying that the wafer shipment would actually still be growing by low teens next year at least because you mentioned a lot of growth drivers by applications just now, especially on 22 nanometer, 28 nanometer, and 8 inch. So just wondering whether you are implying that wafer shipment could grow by another low teens at least for 2026?

我想就我的第一個問題做一個快速的後續。您剛才提到，與 2025 年相比，2026 年的成長動能將持續維持，您的意思是說，至少明年晶圓出貨量仍將以 10% 左右的速度成長嗎？因為您剛才提到了許多應用領域的成長驅動因素，尤其是在 22 奈米、28 奈米和 8 英吋方面。所以我想知道，您的意思是說，至少到2026年，晶圓出貨量可能會再增加10%左右嗎？

I mean we're not giving the blended the wafer shipment at this time. We're ready to provide you more clarity into Q1, but 22 and 28 particularly, yes, I think when we go in to 2026, we're still expecting a double-digit year-over-year growth.

我的意思是，我們目前不會向混合晶圓廠發貨。我們準備向您提供更多關於第一季度的信息，但特別是 2022 年和 2028 年，是的，我認為當我們進入 2026 年時，我們仍然預計年增長率將達到兩位數。

And then my second question would be on your gross margin trend. I think for the fourth quarter, you guided at shipment and auto pricing, the FX seems to be -- voicing seems to be more favorable at this stage. So why does the gross margin does not go higher than the third quarter? I'm just curious why that is the case? Or should we think about high 70% utilization is going to translate into like high 20% gross margins going forward?

那麼我的第二個問題是關於你們的毛利率趨勢。我認為，就第四季度而言，您在出貨量和汽車定價方面都做出了指導，外匯市場似乎——目前看來，匯率波動似乎更有利。那麼，為什麼毛利率在第三季之後沒有進一步提高呢？我只是好奇為什麼會這樣？或者我們應該考慮，70% 的高利用率是否會轉化為未來 20% 左右的高毛利率？

So gross margin in third quarter is actually, in fact, slightly higher than that of the previous quarter. The gross margin also primarily depends on utilization rate ASP, product mix, depreciation and foreign exchange. As you know, even though the foreign exchange rate may be on a forecast basis better than forecast, I still appreciate against US dollars, our key receivable currency.

因此，第三季的毛利率實際上略高於上一季。毛利率也主要取決於利用率、平均售價、產品組合、折舊和外匯匯率。如您所知，即使外匯匯率按預測來看可能比預測更好，但我仍然看好其對美元的價值，美元是我們的主要收款貨幣。

So still in a unfavorable situation, as I mentioned earlier, that almost it is up about 3% of our total revenue. And we do expect the Q4 '25 gross margin still will remain in the bandwidth of high 20% range despite the variables, such as our depreciation, we will still see quarterly increase and this year, we are facing 20%-plus increase in annual depreciation expenses. So hope that answers your questions.

所以，正如我之前提到的，我們仍然處於不利的境地，這只占我們總收入的3%左右。我們預計，儘管存在折舊等變量，但 2025 年第四季度的毛利率仍將保持在 20% 以上的水平，我們仍將看到季度增長，並且今年，我們面臨著年度折舊費用 20% 以上的增長。希望這能解答你的疑問。

And then just a relevant follow-up is in your cost structure. You have been able to manage the other manufacturing cost item quite nicely down in the third quarter. despite the fact that the labor cost is higher, electricity cost is higher and also the material or even the wafer shipment is slightly higher compared with second quarter.

然後，相關的後續工作就包含在您的成本結構中了。第三季度，你們已經很好地控制了其他製造成本項目。儘管勞動成本、電力成本以及材料或晶圓出貨量都比第二季略高。

So could you just elaborate more detail on the -- how should we think about the other manufacturing costs, which I believe should be mostly variable cost? How should we think about that going to trend?

那麼，您能否詳細說明一下—我們應該如何看待其他製造成本？我認為這些成本大部分應該是變動成本。我們該如何看待這種趨勢？

So part of our employee compensation is one which is based upon profit sharing. So when we have a better quarter-over-quarter profit in the third quarter, we do have to factor in higher bonus, which increased in compensation expenses in the third quarter.

因此，我們員工薪酬的一部分是基於利潤分成的。因此，當我們在第三季度獲得比上一季更好的利潤時，我們必須考慮到更高的獎金，這增加了第三季的薪資支出。

But it was still down compared with second quarter. So I was just wondering if there's any reason driving that decline? And would that trend continue?

但與第二季度相比，仍有所下降。所以我想知道造成這種下降的原因是什麼？這種趨勢會持續下去嗎？

No, the trend will not continue. It will flutter along with our rolling profit recognition.

不，這種趨勢不會持續下去。它將隨著我們的滾動利潤確認而波動。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

查理陳，摩根士丹利。

Congratulation for very strong results especially on the gross margin inside. So maybe the type particular uncertainty. So Jason, can you elaborate a little bit what kind of microns will continue in 2026. And I was asked by one of your customers about -- there seems to be some speculation about semi tariff may come next January. So any kind of impact -- potential impact to your business or operation?

祝賀公司取得非常優異的業績，尤其是在毛利率方面。所以，這或許是一種特殊的不確定性。傑森，你能詳細說明一下2026年哪些微米級的微米會繼續存在嗎？您的一位客戶問我—似乎有人猜測半導體關稅可能會在明年一月推出。那麼，會對您的業務或營運造成任何潛在影響嗎？

And also another good uncertainty, it was a couple of weeks ago, right, the rare earth kind of supply. Does your team run through some analysis about the potential impact rare earth will be restricted again?

還有另一個有利的不確定因素，就在幾週前，稀土供應方面出現了問題。你們團隊是否對稀土資源再次受限可能造成的影響進行分析？

Sure. A couple of things, right? I mean you mentioned about geopolitical dynamics on the tariffs. So maybe I'll start upon the tariff first. We do understand there are uncertainties and risks on the potential impact of tariffs.

當然。有兩件事，對吧？我的意思是，你提到了關稅方面的地緣政治因素。所以，或許我應該先從關稅問題著手。我們理解關稅可能帶來的影響存在不確定性和風險。

And we will remain cautious of those potential business impact and we'll be mindful in our business planning going into 2026. At this current point, we haven't seen anything yet. But we are cautious. Amidst the uncertainties, we'll also continue to focus on the fundamental of our business. That is the technology differentiation, manufacturing excellence and customer trust to further strengthen our competitive position.

我們將繼續關注這些潛在的業務影響，並在製定 2026 年的業務計劃時予以考慮。目前為止，我們什麼都沒看到。但我們保持謹慎。在充滿不確定性的環境中，我們將繼續專注於業務的基本面。這是透過技術差異化、卓越製造和客戶信任來進一步加強我們的競爭地位。

So I think we still have to go back to the fundamentals. For to address the geopolitical concerns, I do believe that UMC has a geo-diversified manufacturing side across the globe. And the global summit conducted landscape is evolving. Customer and governments are increasing emphasize the geographic diversification in supply chain resilience along with the tariff.

所以我認為我們還是得回歸基本面。為了解決地緣政治問題，我相信聯電在全球範圍內擁有地域多元化的製造業務。全球高峰會的舉辦格局正在不斷變化。客戶和政府越來越重視供應鏈韌性的地理多元化以及關稅問題。

But to address the structural changes and align with the customer needs, our strategic initiative, including the capacity buildup in Singapore and the US and are designed to complement our Taiwan facility will enable us to better support customers across multiple regions.

但為了應對結構性變化並滿足客戶需求，我們的策略性舉措，包括在新加坡和美國建立產能，旨在補充我們在台灣的工廠，這將使我們能夠更好地支持多個地區的客戶。

Over the long term, we are targeting a balanced capacity split between Taiwan and overseas locations, but we welcome any opportunity from our customer whether this is an impact or opportunity to us. We probably that position ourself and ready for that dynamic changes.

從長遠來看，我們的目標是在台灣和海外地區之間實現產能的平衡分配，但我們歡迎客戶提出的任何機會，無論這對我們來說是影響還是機會。我們或許已經做好了這樣的準備，迎接這種動態變化。

So this is a strategic seminar. I think we also went through this discussion last quarter or two quarters ago, so do you also hear that next January could be a final implementation of these semi tariff? And secondly, would UMC can get circle exemption from the same car?

這是一場戰略研討會。我認為我們上個季度或前個季度也討論過這個問題，那麼您是否也聽說明年一月可能會最終實施這些半關稅措施？其次，UMC能否憑藉同一輛車獲得圈地豁免？

Well, I mean your guess is as good as my guess. So I'm not going to guess here.

嗯，我的意思是，你的猜測和我的猜測一樣好。所以我不打算妄加猜測。

I watch TV only.

我只看電視。

Yeah. So we're going to be cautious about this, and we're closely monitoring the progress and developments. And at the same time, given that we or invested into the US, so we're definitely going to present our case. But there's nothing else to update it here. But if there's anything, we will definitely -- will flowback.

是的。因此，我們將對此事保持謹慎，並密切關注事態發展。同時，鑑於我們在美國進行了投資，我們肯定會陳述我們的理由。但這裡沒有其他需要更新的內容了。但如果有什麼問題，我們肯定會——一定會回饋。

Okay. Got you. And second question is about the -- your gross margin sustainability. I know this quarter, next quarter, some put in tax, right? But just overall, right, next year, your peers, yes, maybe I just call it TSMC kind of hiked the wafer price and recently, we are seeing that the back-end foundry.

好的。抓到你了。第二個問題是關於──你們的毛利率永續性。我知道這季度、下季有些人要繳稅，對吧？但總的來說，明年，你的同行，是的，也許我應該稱之為台積電提高了晶圓價格，而且最近，我們看到後端代工也提高了晶圓價格。

Though sounds like you're into the peer, but it's kind of your downstream supply chain, right? Also attempt to bake-in foundry service side. So what was the MC kind of said about potential wafer price hike into next year?

聽起來你好像對同業很感興趣，但它其實是你的下游供應鏈，對吧？同時嘗試將代工廠服務方面也納入考量。那麼，主持人對明年晶圓價格可能會上漲的問題說了些什麼呢？

Well, like Chitung mentioned earlier, margin reflects the result of ASP loading certain various factors. So that take the ASP specifically. For the ASP outlook, our 2025 ASP performance has remained firm amid a dynamic business environment, and it has remained stable at a healthy level throughout the year.

正如 Chitung 前面提到的，利潤率反映了 ASP 考慮某些各種因素的結果。所以，具體來說，就是ASP。對於 ASP 展望，儘管商業環境瞬息萬變，但我們 2025 年的 ASP 表現依然穩健，並且全年都保持在健康的水平。

And so then we expect the ASP will remain in Q4 2025. And for the 2026 outlook on ASP, we will provide more details in the upcoming January 2026 conference call as we are going through some discussion with our customers, aligning that. So we'll probably have more detail to report the next conference call.

因此，我們預計 2025 年第四季平均售價將保持不變。至於 2026 年 ASP 的展望，我們將在即將於 2026 年 1 月舉行的電話會議上提供更多細節，因為我們正在與客戶進行一些討論，以達成一致。所以，我們可能會在下次電話會議上報告更多細節。

Okay. And on the cost side, you sinter want to drive some costs down. But I feel like most of the components whatsoever, most of what a hearing this commodity costs may go up, right? So on the cost side, do you have any preliminary outlook for 2026.

好的。在成本方面，你肯定希望降低一些成本。但我感覺大多數組件，或者說這種商品的大部分成本，都可能會上漲，對吧？那麼，在成本方面，您對 2026 年有什麼初步的展望嗎？

We don't get into specific cost projection or I think we can probably update you about the view in cost, our view about cost. Cost competitiveness is always a mutual goal for us and our suppliers together. So in order to be competitive. So we're closely working with our suppliers. We'll continue to drive towards cost savings in 2026, and that has been going on for many years, but we are continuing to doing that into 2026.

我們不打算進行具體的成本預測，或者我想我們可以向您介紹我們對成本的看法。成本競爭力始終是我們和供應商的共同目標。所以為了保持競爭力。因此，我們正與供應商密切合作。我們將在 2026 年繼續努力節省成本，這項工作已經持續了許多年，我們將把這項工作延續到 2026 年。

But that includes the combination of both internal and external efforts. It's not only working with the supplier, it's also internal efforts. For example, we have already started leveraging some smart manufacturing and AI technologies internally to enhance our fab efficiency and enabling our long-term operational competitiveness. So that's also a major piece of driving our cost goal.

但這包括內部和外部努力的結合。這不僅包括與供應商的合作，也包括內部努力。例如，我們已經開始在內部利用一些智慧製造和人工智慧技術來提高我們工廠的效率，並實現我們的長期營運競爭力。所以這也是我們達成成本目標的重要因素。

So I think there's many of the initiatives that we're deploying and the working with the supplier, supply chain is just one of them.

所以我認為，我們正在推行的許多措施中，與供應商和供應鏈合作只是其中之一。

Okay. And last one, I will be back to the queue. So I know your company and your team have been running through a lot of strategic or marketing research, right? So recently, we picked up one that point of view, I would like to share with you and also consult your view.

好的。最後，我要重新排隊了。我知道貴公司和貴團隊一直在進行大量的策略或市場調查，對嗎？最近，我們注意到一個觀點，我想跟大家分享一下，也想聽聽大家的看法。

Because of the glass shortage, right, we start to see tightens of BD supplies over time. From your UMC perspective, would that kind of constrain your -- some of your customers' demand, for example, the consumer or smartphone SoC demand into 2026.

因為玻璃短缺，對吧？隨著時間的推移，我們開始看到BD供應趨於緊張。從 UMC 的角度來看，這是否會限制你們的一些客戶的需求，例如，到 2026 年消費者或智慧型手機 SoC 的需求？

Well, we really haven't seen that. But we are closely monitoring the entire supply chain resilience. The current market is driven by this AI momentum. So they are various areas demonstrating potential supply concerns. But so far, we have not seen any impact to us.

嗯，我們還沒見過這種情況。但我們正在密切關注整個供應鏈的韌性。當前市場是由人工智慧的發展勢頭所驅動的。因此，這些領域都存在潛在的供應問題。但到目前為止，我們還沒有感受到任何影響。

But like you said, we all look out there and see if there's going to be any, but meanwhile, we are managing from our internal perspective, we are managing our supply resilience point of view. We want to ensure the supply assurance and as well as the -- both from a supply and demand the supply and demand as well as the quality standard and cost.

但正如你所說，我們都在關注外部情況，看看是否會有任何影響，但同時，我們也在從內部角度進行管理，從供應鏈彈性角度進行管理。我們希望確保供應保障，以及──從供需關係、品質標準和成本兩方面來看。

So I think that's always been our initiative internally. So I would just have to say, we haven't seen any impact on the recent market dynamic. But it's something always on our radar screen and we'll continue monitoring.

所以我認為這一直是我們內部的一項舉措。所以我想說的是，我們還沒有看到近期市場動態受到任何影響。但這始終是我們關注的重點，我們會繼續密切關注。

Yes. How about smartphone or PC demand recovery, if you have a crystal ball, do you think that two major segment of the demand will significantly recover next year?

是的。如果讓你預測未來，你認為智慧型手機或個人電腦這兩大主要需求領域明年會大幅復甦嗎？

Well, I mean, at least for the Q4 '25, we expect wafer shipment will remain flat, and the markets reflect a pretty healthy inventory level as well. We see slightly communication settling in our segment but the computing consumer automotive are slightly increased. So I'm not sure that's a fact that it reflects probably more end demand associated.

嗯，我的意思是，至少在 2025 年第四季度，我們預計晶圓出貨量將保持平穩，市場也反映出庫存水準相當健康。我們看到通訊在我們這個細分市場中略有穩定，但計算消費汽車領域略有成長。所以我不太確定這是否反映了更多的終端需求。

Laura Chen, Citi.

Laura Chen，花旗銀行。

My first question is also about the margin outlook. You mentioned that the depreciation cost for this year were up about 20%-plus year on year. But we know that actually in the first half, the depreciation cost increased almost like 30%. So the that depreciation caused year-on-year increase trend to slowing down into Q4. With overall your utilization rate and also ASP seems to be resilient and also higher exposure on 28 nanometer should we looking for some of the potential upside of the gross margin?

我的第一個問題也是關於利潤率前景的。您提到今年的折舊成本比去年增加了20%以上。但我們知道，實際上上半年折舊成本增加了近 30%。因此，折舊導致年增速在第四季放緩。鑑於您的整體利用率和平均售價似乎都很穩定，而且在 28 奈米製程上的投入也較高，我們是否應該期待毛利率的一些潛在增長？

Well, other than depreciation and other factors, like Jason mentioned, we will have a clear view on the ASP, which is an important component for the margin equation. But just on depreciation loan, yes, the increase magnitude were down to about low teens in the year of 2026 versus 20-something in the 2025. And in the previous quarter, we also mentioned either '26 or '27 should be the peak of the recent depreciation curve. So on that regard, it does provide a good floor for helping our EBITDA margin.

除了折舊和其他因素之外，正如傑森所提到的那樣，我們將清楚地了解平均售價，這是利潤率方程式的重要組成部分。但就折舊貸款而言，是的，2026 年的成長幅度約為十幾個百分點，而 2025 年則約為二十幾個百分點。上一季度，我們也提到過，2026 年或 2027 年應該是近期貶值曲線的高峰。因此，從這個角度來看，它確實為我們的 EBITDA 利潤率提供了良好的底線。

Okay. Great. And also, the second question is, I recall that we mentioned about the interposer business before, we know that the AI demand is surging. So just want to understand UMC, do you have any update view on the interposer strategy. And also, we know that UMC also have wafer-to-wafer technology. So just wondering what's the plan here? And also, do you want to further expand the capacity on interpose?

好的。偉大的。另外，第二個問題是，我記得我們之前提到過中介層業務，我們知道人工智慧的需求正在激增。所以我想了解聯電，您對中介層策略有什麼最新的看法嗎？而且，我們也知道聯電也擁有晶圓對晶圓技術。所以我想知道接下來的計劃是什麼？另外，您是否希望進一步擴展 interpose 的容量？

Well, the latest development on the event packaging space, we'll continue preparing our and packaging solution for this growing market associated with the energy consumption of all AI and the edge AI market. For UMC, we are developing the 2.5D interposer with DTC, the deep trench competitors, and discrete DTC to address the power efficiency requirement in HAI, HPC, PC, and smartphone space.

關於活動包裝領域的最新進展，我們將繼續為這個不斷增長的市場準備我們的包裝解決方案，該市場與所有人工智慧和邊緣人工智慧市場的能源消耗相關。對於 UMC 而言，我們正在開發採用 DTC 的 2.5D 中介層、深溝槽競爭對手以及分離式 DTC，以滿足 HAI、HPC、PC 和智慧型手機領域的能源效率要求。

And second, C leveraging the scalable 3D wafer packaging stacking and the TSV to enhance the -- enhance our specialty technology offering. We are in the mass production and extremely small form factor for the 5G and 6G RFIC right now by leveraging the water-to-wafer stacking technology.

其次，C 利用可擴展的 3D 晶圓封裝堆疊和 TSV 來增強——增強我們的專業技術產品。我們目前正利用水對晶圓堆疊技術，大規模生產尺寸極小的 5G 和 6G 射頻積體電路。

Based on the success of the 5G and 6G RIC through the wafer to wafer stacking, we are also developing memory to memory stacking and memory to larger stacking service for the high-bandwidth computing requirement.

基於 5G 和 6G RIC 透過晶圓對晶圓堆疊技術的成功，我們也在開發記憶體對記憶體堆疊和記憶體對更大堆疊的服務，以滿足高頻寬運算需求。

So our technology real associated with the center with the DTC capability and the wafer-to-wafer stacking capability. Right now, this is still within our current capacity size. There's no expansion planned but there are a lot of customer interest and engagement in development right now.

因此，我們的技術與具備 DTC 能力和晶圓堆疊能力的中心密切相關。目前，這仍在我們現有的產能範圍內。目前沒有擴張計劃，但客戶對開發方面表現出了濃厚的興趣和積極參與。

Okay. Great. Can you also give us some like idea how is that kind of business opportunity going into the next few years?

好的。偉大的。您能否也為我們介紹未來幾年這類商業機會的發展趨勢？

I mean as we anticipated, the cloud AI and the HAI market will probably be taking out in the next two years or so. And so we've seen preparing those technology capability today will position us well to serve that market when the market comes. I think many customers are engaging in that discussion, exploring the product road map at this stage. But in terms of the actual volume and the ramp-up schedule, I would expect it's going to probably be in late 2026 or sometime in 2027.

我的意思是，正如我們預期的那樣，雲端運算人工智慧和人機互動市場可能會在未來兩年左右佔據主導地位。因此，我們看到，今天做好技術能力的準備，將使我們能夠在市場到來時更好地服務該市場。我認為很多客戶都在參與這場討論，在這個階段探索產品路線圖。但就實際產量和產能提升計畫而言，我預計可能會在 2026 年底或 2027 年的某個時候實現。

Sunny Lin, UBS.

Sunny Lin，瑞銀集團。

Congrats on the very good outlook. Very glad to see this is stabilizing and improving. So my first question is on the pricing. I understand more specific guidance should be provided in January or in early 2026, but I want to give a bit more color on the latest progress on your engagement with the clients. So in 2024 and 2025, basically, you provided roughly mid-single-digit type of price reset for across the board.

恭喜你前景一片光明。很高興看到情況正在穩定和改善。所以我的第一個問題是關於價格的。我知道應該在 1 月或 2026 年初提供更具體的指導，但我希望更詳細地介紹您與客戶合作的最新進展。因此，在 2024 年和 2025 年，基本上，你們對所有產品都進行了大致中等個位數的價格重置。

And so how should we expect like going to early 2026? Would we be fair to assume that now given the improving supply demand, even if any, price decline should be lower than the magnitude in early 2024 and early 2025.

那麼，我們該如何預期 2026 年初呢？我們是否可以合理地假設，鑑於供需關係的改善，即使價格有所下降，其幅度也應小於 2024 年初和 2025 年初的幅度？

Well, I mean it's definitely -- I mean, that's our goal, right? I mean -- but while we are still in discussion and aligning with our customers, I can't really quote that. I have to really see the data before I can comment about it. But throughout the annual discussions and the patents in January, we'll probably continue to engage in similar discussion. But in terms of the magnitude of it, I think it's kind of too early to guide at this point.

嗯，我的意思是，這絕對是——我的意思是，這就是我們的目標，對吧？我的意思是——但由於我們仍在與客戶討論和協商，所以我現在還不能妄下斷言。我必須先看到數據才能發表評論。但在每年的討論和一月份的專利審查期間，我們可能會繼續進行類似的討論。但就其規模而言，我認為現在做出判斷還為時過早。

Got it. Maybe a follow-up on broadband ASP. There are still some concerns that there may be some overhang from LTA expiring in the coming if you could weigh on your blended ASP. And so Jason, could you maybe provide a bit more color on if any impact or that impact is already gone mostly?

知道了。或許可以跟進一下寬頻應用服務供應商（ASP）的情況。如果短期租賃協議 (LTA) 即將到期，可能會對您的混合平均售價 (ASP) 造成一些不利影響，這仍然令人擔憂。那麼傑森，你能否再詳細說明一下，這種影響是否已經基本消失，或者是否還有其他影響？

I mean LTA is one of the mechanisms that help us and our customers working other partners not only based on the ASP, it's also -- we -- based on that, providing a mutual commitment for us to put in capacity to support the customer. At the same time, the customer penetrate some commitment for the business engagement.

我的意思是，LTA 是幫助我們和我們的客戶與其他合作夥伴合作的機制之一，它不僅基於 ASP，而且——我們——也基於此，為我們提供了相互承諾，投入能力來支持客戶。同時，客戶對業務合作做出了一定的承諾。

So LTA will continue serving that purpose. While giving the market dynamics, we're always working closely with our customers. and to support them and gaining market shares without losing the market share and gaining the market shares and also with the market dynamics in terms of commercial needs. But at the same time, we have the balance in terms of CapEx returns.

因此，陸路交通管理局將繼續發揮這一作用。在考慮市場動態的同時，我們始終與客戶緊密合作，為他們提供支持，在不失去市場份額的情況下贏得市場份額，並在滿足商業需求的前提下，根據市場動態不斷擴大市場份額。但同時，我們在資本支出回報方面也取得了平衡。

So it is a complicated process and the discussion, and we've been doing that for the past two years, and we'll continue supporting our customers to march into that direction finding a win-win solution based on the LTA arrangement. But the mutual commitment of LTA remains intact, yeah.

所以這是一個複雜的過程和討論，我們過去兩年一直在進行討論，我們將繼續支持我們的客戶朝著這個方向前進，在 LTA 安排的基礎上找到雙贏的解決方案。但是，LTA的相互承諾依然不變，是的。

Got it. So maybe one question on 2026. Just to make sure that I got the right number. So for 2026, Jason earlier, did you mention the target will be to grow business by double digit?

知道了。所以，關於2026年，或許可以問一個問題。只是為了確認我拿到的號碼是否正確。傑森，你之前提到2026年的目標是實現兩位數的業務成長嗎？

I mentioned about 22 and 28 nanometer that we expect the momentum will go into 2026, and we expect a double-digit growth year over year. Yes.

我之前提到過 22 奈米和 28 奈米，我們預計這種成長勢頭將持續到 2026 年，我們預計每年將實現兩位數的成長。是的。

And maybe a question on Singapore expansion. So if any like latest update that you could share with us in terms of how quickly the capacities will be ramped in 2026.

或許還可以問一個關於新加坡擴張的問題。所以，如果您有任何關於2026年產能提升速度的最新消息，能否與我們分享一下？

I think the milestone has not changed. We project that the 12 inch will start in January 2026 and it will ramp up with a higher volume starting in second half of 2026. And that milestone schedule remains.

我認為里程碑的設定沒有改變。我們預計 12 吋版本將於 2026 年 1 月開始生產，並將於 2026 年下半年開始逐步提高產量。該里程碑計劃仍然有效。

Got it. Maybe last question. So in terms of dividend policy, given the improving cash flow outlook in the coming few years, the company consider maybe revisiting the dividend policy to change to like absolute cash dividend? Would that be possible?

知道了。或許是最後一個問題。因此，就股利政策而言，鑑於未來幾年現金流前景改善，公司是否考慮重新審視股利政策，改為絕對現金股利？那有可能嗎？

It's not impossible, but we always try to strike a good balance between the high percentage payout ratio and absolute dividends. So I think that strategy or that position will continue.

這並非不可能，但我們始終努力在高股息率和絕對股息之間取得良好的平衡。所以我認為這種策略或立場將會持續下去。

Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

Gokul Hariharan，摩根大通。

So just wanted to understand a little bit more on the pricing. I know that you're in pricing negotiations with customers. Could we talk a little bit about 22 and 28? How was the pricing trend there? Do you expect that there is any concession that you may need to make on 22 and 28 pricing? Or that is going to be reasonably from. And maybe also the same question on the each portion of the capacity is probably given some of your some of your competitors are also kind of down or kind of exiting some of the (inaudible) capacity.

所以想多了解定價方面的資訊。我知道你們正在和客戶進行價格談判。我們可以稍微談談第22和第28點嗎？那裡的價格走勢如何？您預計在 22 和 28 的價格方面需要做出任何讓步嗎？或者說，這很可能是合理的。或許，對於產能的每個部分，同樣的問題也可能是，你的一些競爭對手的產能也在下降，或者正在退出一些（聽不清楚）產能。

Well, our pricing strategy has been very consistent, and we work more closely with our customers for protecting and gaining market shares. So that remains. That will not change. So in the particular number, the ASP guidance, I think it's better that we have all the picture together and to share with you.

我們的定價策略一直非常一致，我們與客戶緊密合作，以保護和擴大市場份額。所以這個問題還剩下。這一點不會改變。所以，關於具體的數字，也就是平均售價（ASP）指導，我認為最好我們把所有資訊匯總起來，與大家分享。

But in terms of pricing strategy and positioning, that has not changed. We do believe that the pricing is a combination of our value proposition, found technology differentiation manufacturing capability, reliable capacity and the diversified manufacturing locations and so on.

但在定價策略和市場定位方面，情況並沒有改變。我們相信，定價是我們價值主張、技術差異化製造能力、可靠產能和多元化生產地點等因素綜合作用的結果。

So we think there's a lot to offer. And along with the mutual commitment with many customers, we believe that we will strive to right balance for the pricing discussion. However, again, from the specific guidance on ASP outlook, I will probably prefer to wait until we finish up.

所以我們認為有很多東西可以提供。憑藉與眾多客戶的共同承諾，我們相信我們將努力在定價討論中找到合適的平衡。但是，根據 ASP 前景的具體指導，我可能更傾向於等到我們完成之後再做決定。

I don't want to mislead you at this point. And that goal is whether it's 22 or 28 nanometer and as long as the 8 inch because each technology has a different market dynamics. And we will work within that dynamics. Meanwhile, you're talking about if we see anything in 8 inch opportunity or due to any other or peers, we don't typically comment about our competitors.

我不想在這個時候誤導你。而這個目標就是採用 22 奈米或 28 奈米工藝，並儘可能延長至 8 英寸，因為每種技術都有不同的市場動態。我們將在這種動態框架內開展工作。同時，您提到如果我們在 8 吋市場看到任何機會，或者因為任何其他因素或同行，我們通常不會對競爭對手發表評論。

We believe our market share increase. We believe our market share increase in 2025 in 8 inch, but not just an overall 8 inch and 12 inch legacy nodes. And we believe those now remain a sweet spot for a wide range of analog-rich product. So we'll continue to strengthen our product portfolio, focused on those. And hopefully, we can increase our market shares.

我們相信我們的市場份額會成長。我們相信，到 2025 年，我們在 8 吋市場的份額將會增加，但不僅僅是 8 吋和 12 吋傳統節點的整體份額。我們認為，這些仍然是各種富含類比訊號的產品的理想選擇。因此，我們將繼續加強我們的產品組合，並將重點放在這些方面。希望我們能夠提高市場佔有率。

We continue to optimize our existing platform and developing a new solution better address the market needs. This is the area that UMC has built some long-standing relations and trusted relationship with our customers.

我們將繼續優化現有平台，並開發新的解決方案，以更好地滿足市場需求。在這個領域，UMC 與客戶建立了長期穩定的合作關係和互信關係。

So we believe the structure trend will reinforce our position as the preferred foundry partner for customer in the needs. And that will actually help us to sustain our maybe growth in both 8 and 12 inch legacy nodes over the long run.

因此，我們相信結構性趨勢將鞏固我們作為客戶首選代工廠合作夥伴的地位，以滿足他們的需求。從長遠來看，這實際上將有助於我們在 8 英寸和 12 英寸傳統節點上保持增長。

Yeah, clear on the pricing that we can bet for January, but I think I just wanted to also ask on the semiconductor section to the tariffs. How are the discussions with your customers going, and let's say there is a 15% to 20% tariffs on exports, which needs to be offset with any kind of US investment or US capacity that you have.

是的，關於一月份的價格，我們已經很清楚了，但我還想問一下半導體部分的關稅狀況​​。與客戶的討論進度如何？假設出口關稅為 15% 至 20%，這需要透過您在美國的任何投資或產能來抵銷。

How does UMC manage that situation? And which of the investments or if any, that can qualify for that kind of an offset? I mean, for some of your peers, I think that is pretty clear. But I just wanted to understand how UMC tends to bring the situation.

UMC是如何處理這種情況的？那麼，哪些投資（如果有的話）符合這種抵銷條件呢？我的意思是，對於你們中的一些同齡人來說，我認為這已經很清楚了。但我只是想了解 UMC 通常會如何處理這種情況。

Well, I kind of touched that earlier. We have been a very diversified manufacturing. We have a very diversified manufacturing location in the past. And so we have a very -- I think we're pretty much very complement to the current market dynamics, the current geographical diversification, supply chain resilience, I think our past initiative serve that.

嗯，我之前稍微提到過這一點。我們一直是一家業務多元化的製造企業。我們過去曾擁有非常多元化的生產基地。因此，我認為我們與當前的市場動態、當前的地理多元化、供應鏈韌性非常契合，我認為我們過去的措施也服務於此。

And so we'll just continue -- we maybe alter that, making some adjustments about that strategy, but not significantly. For instance, we're including building capacity in Singapore and US and it's very much aligned to that direction. Of course, the tariff situation whether it is x percentage, we don't know yet for Taiwan, but we know some areas already came out of 15%, which that's where we have our reaction site.

所以我們會繼續——我們可能會改變一下，對這個策略做一些調整，但不會做大的改變。例如，我們正在新加坡和美國進行能力建設，這與該方向非常契合。當然，台灣的關稅情況究竟是 x 個百分點，我們還不清楚，但我們知道有些地區的關稅已經降至 15%，而我們的反應網站正是針對這些地區。

Customers are in discussion in interest of make sure that they have access to those facilities and to those locations. So we are definitely entertaining that conversation in a manner of growing our business engagement.

客戶們正在討論，以確保他們能夠使用這些設施和進入這些地點。因此，我們肯定會認真考慮這種對話方式，以此來拓展我們的業務合作。

So we hope that become more of an opportunity to not just a negative impact. Now for some area that is not clear yet, and we have to navigate through that. It's our belief that we have very smart people in this industry, and despite -- which direction it goes, we will navigate through those process and finding a win-win solution mutual benefits.

所以我們希望這能成為一種機會，而不僅僅是負面影響。現在有些領域的情況還不明朗，我們需要想辦法解決。我們相信，我們這個產業擁有非常聰明的人才，無論未來走向何方，我們都會努力克服困難，找到雙贏的解決方案，實現互利共贏。

Yeah, just following up on that, I think geographical diversification is one aspect, but also the second aspect is US capacity, right? So is your understanding that your 12 nanometer collaboration with Intel kind of count at US investment in US capacity given I think the total investment is actually quite small, even though you are actually shouldering a lot of the technology-related task.

是的，我接著剛才說的，我認為地域多元化是一個方面，但第二個方面是美國的能力，對吧？所以，您是否認為您與英特爾的 12 奈米合作算是美國對美國產能的投資？考慮到我認為總投資實際上相當小，儘管您實際上承擔了許多與技術相關的任務。

Well, I mean, I can't comment apolitical more, but the investment is investment, and we are putting capacity in the US and the starting point of the 12-nanometer only lets a solid foundation for us to explore maybe even other collaboration opportunity as well. So that also -- if there's anything to update, we will update you, but that could also represent even more investments, right? So -- but is just -- we're not ready to update you anything yet, but even I look at the 12 nanometer today that is quite significant in terms of investment.

嗯，我的意思是，我不能再不帶政治色彩地評論了，但投資就是投資，我們正在美國建立產能，而 12 奈米的起點只是為我們探索其他合作機會奠定了堅實的基礎。所以，如果有任何更新，我們會通知您，但這可能也意味著需要更多投資，對吧？所以——但是——我們還不方便向您透露任何信息，但即使是我，今天看來 12 奈米技術在投資方面也意義重大。

Got it. Maybe one last question on the advanced packaging bid. I think you last time updated, I think, around 60 or so of wafer capacity to find packaging. Is that still where we are in terms of the capacity and for your 2.5D packaging with deep bench faster, what is the application? Is it a slightly different application that you are targeting compared to the mainstream market, and that's why you're kind of meeting on the capacity expansion, while the industry is still like really asking for a lot of capacity.

知道了。關於高級包裝投標，或許還有最後一個問題。我認為你上次更新的時候，大概是說晶圓產能有 60 左右，需要找到合適的封裝方案。就產能而言，我們目前的水準是否仍然如此？對於你們的 2.5D 深槽快速包裝，其應用領域為何？你們的目標應用是否與主流市場略有不同，所以你們才在產能擴張方面進行磋商，而整個產業仍然對產能有著巨大的需求？

The 2.5D interposer exists today, it is staying there. There is no expansion plan beyond that. Given the technology road map migrating to the DTC, and we're developing the DTC capability. And for that, we're serving the AI, HPC, PC, notebook and smartphone space. And so our advanced packaging road map will center from the DTC going into 2026. Yeah.

2.5D 中介層目前已經存在，並將持續存在。除此之外，沒有其他擴張計畫。鑑於向DTC遷移的技術路線圖，我們正在開發DTC功能。為此，我們服務於人工智慧、高效能運算、個人電腦、筆記型電腦和智慧型手機領域。因此，我們的先進封裝路線圖將以DTC為中心，一直延續到2026年。是的。

And would you say that the [6K] is now fully utilized? Or you still have a lot of slack in that [6K] capacity right now?

您認為[6K]現在已經充分利用了嗎？或者說，你現在在[6K]容量方面還有很多餘裕？

I mean the product migrating to DTC, that's why we're not expanding the capacity on the two happening right now.

我的意思是產品正在直接面向消費者 (DTC) 模式轉型，這就是為什麼我們目前沒有擴大這兩個產品的產能。

Okay. Fair enough. And this DTC capacity, how significant do you think it is going to become in terms of revenues, let's say, I think you were expecting end of '26 ramp-up, so let's say, in 2025. And is that part of your total portfolio?

好的。很公平。那麼，您認為這種 DTC 能力在收入方面會變得多麼重要？比方說，我想您之前預計會在 2026 年底開始成長，那麼我們假設是在 2025 年。那是否包含在您的整體投資組合中？

Or is it still going to be quite small, similar to the interposer related revenue set space more like it low-segment kind of percentage of revenue.

或者它仍然會很小，類似於中介器相關的收入空間，更像是低端市場收入百分比。

I think it's kind of too early to predict that. Part of the market is associated with the edge AI market, which we have to that has more clarity. And so I think at this point, it's too early to project that. But in terms of technology wise, I think that's definitely in the core of the next generation. So we need to make sure that we are prepared for it.

我覺得現在預測還太早。部分市場與邊緣人工智慧市場相關，而我們對這部分市場有著更清晰的認識。所以我覺得現在做出預測還太早。但就技術而言，我認為這絕對是下一代技術的核心。所以我們需要確保做好充分的準備。

Janco Venter, Arete.

Janco Venter，Arete。

I just wanted to follow up on the investment into the US and just get an update on the state of the PDK. And then Also, we just want to understand the business model around this engagement on 12 nanometer. Is it revenue share? Is it profit share?

我只是想跟進一下對美國的投資情況，並了解PDK的最新進展。此外，我們也想了解圍繞 12 奈米技術開展的這項合作的商業模式。是收益分成嗎？這是利潤分成嗎？

And then just secondly on that, will it be cannibalistic to the 22, 28 nanometer customers as you start migrating to 12 nanometer. Any color that you can add to that to help us just understand this opportunity would be quite helpful.

其次，隨著你們開始向 12 奈米技術遷移，這是否會對 22 奈米、28 奈米的客戶造成蠶食效應？如果您能為這個機會添加一些細節，幫助我們更好地理解，那就太好了。

From a project standpoint, currently, the 12 nanometer cooperation with in our group is progressing well and remain on track according to the project milestone. And we expect the early PDK will be ready for the first wave of customers in January 2026. And both UMC and Intel are aligning with the customer device set to facilitate the ramp up. Overall, the collaboration is proceeding on schedule and customer product tape-out is expected at the beginning of 2027. So that is the update on the 12 nanometer.

從專案角度來看，目前我們團隊內部的 12 奈米合作進展順利，並按照專案里程碑保持在正軌上。我們預計早期 PDK 將於 2026 年 1 月準備好交付給第一批客戶。UMC 和 Intel 都在與客戶設備集保持一致，以促進產能提升。總體而言，合作進展順利，預計將於 2027 年初向客戶交付產品。以上就是關於12奈米技術的最新進展。

The business model itself, we are working collaborated together and engaging with the customer and the actual business model that we've probably not elaborated shares right now. But one is the -- I think that will be the business revenue recognition once it's ready, we'll update that. And the collaboration model is actually very restructured and -- but just we'll probably have to report that after we enter production. I think that's the two questions you have, right? Did I miss it?

商業模式本身，我們正在共同努力，與客戶互動，而我們目前可能還沒有詳細闡述的實際商業模式。但其中之一是——我認為一旦準備就緒，這將是業務收入確認，我們將更新它。協作模式實際上已經進行了很大的重組，但是我們可能要等到正式上線後才能公佈具體情況。我想這就是你的兩個問題，對嗎？我錯過了嗎？

Yeah. That makes sense. Yes, that's right. Maybe just one follow-up. And I think you touched on this earlier, we talked about potentially looking at further investments.

是的。這很有道理。是的，沒錯。或許只需要一次後續跟進。我想你之前也提到過這一點，我們討論過可能進行進一步投資。

Now if we look at actually, we are trying to understand if there's scope perhaps to extend this agreement to single-digit nodes because if you look at Intel's business, they fully depreciated 7 nanometer. And it seems like an obvious area to extend the agreement. Is this something that you would potentially be looking at? And does that make strategic sense for UMC?

現在，如果我們仔細觀察，我們試圖了解是否有可能將此協議擴展到個位數節點，因為如果你看看英特爾的業務，他們已經完全放棄了 7 奈米技術。這似乎是一個顯而易見的可以擴大協議範圍的領域。這是您可能會考慮的方向嗎？這對 UMC 來說有戰略意義嗎？

Well, I mean yeah, the simple answer is yes, right? And we have the starting fund. We have to start it from the 12 nanometer. So we had to make sure that execute well, so we can lay a solid foundation on that. For technology beyond 12 nanometer, we are open to explore the future opportunity through the partnership arrangements that are mutual.

嗯，我的意思是，答案很簡單，就是“是”，對吧？我們已經有了啟動資金。我們必須從12奈米開始。所以我們必須確保執行到位，這樣才能打下堅實的基礎。對於 12 奈米以上的技術，我們願意透過互惠互利的合作安排來探索未來的機會。

I would say the collaboration with Intel is strengthening UMC's strategic position in US significantly and for the US market and also broaden our addressable market. Well, hearing our disciplined CapEx approach. So we are very committed to this partnership. And so far, the project is the program that you provision well.

我認為與英特爾的合作顯著加強了聯電在美國的戰略地位，並擴大了我們面向美國市場的目標市場。嗯，聽到了我們嚴謹的資本支出策略。因此，我們非常重視此次合作。到目前為止，這個專案就是你們準備充分的專案。

Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

Bruce Lu，高盛集團。

Yeah, I just want to follow up for the US collaboration the onto nanometer. What are the showstopper for us to move beyond 12 nanometer at the current stage? Or do we consider to go backwards to do a relatively mature node capacity in US?

是的，我只是想跟進美國在奈米技術方面的合作。目前阻礙我們突破 12 奈米瓶頸的因素是什麼？或者我們考慮倒退到美國，建立一個相對成熟的節點容量？

I mean, that's an interesting question, right? I mean the -- I think when we talked about this cooperation with Intel strengthened our positioning in the US market. hopefully, we're not only limited 12 nanometers and that if we can have a full potential of this position. And so that's why we're actually very open to explore the future opportunities through this.

我的意思是，這確實是個有趣的問題，對吧？我的意思是——我認為我們與英特爾的合作鞏固了我們在美國市場的地位。希望我們不僅限於12奈米工藝，而是能夠充分發揮這一地位的潛力。所以，正因如此，我們非常樂意探索透過這種方式獲得的未來機會。

So I don't think there's -- I won't quote any showstopper, I think as long this is mutually beneficial, I mean, we will definitely hope them to explore that. Now it's the exploration limited to the more advanced I think we are also open to that, and we are not limiting ourselves with that.

所以我覺得沒什麼——我不會說有什麼致命的障礙，我認為只要這對雙方都有利，我的意思是，我們當然希望他們能探討一下。現在，探索的範圍僅限於更先進的領域，我認為我們也對此持開放態度，我們不會因此而限制自己。

So the question is that it's clearly mutually beneficial, right? So who has the bar? I mean who doesn't want to move up.

所以問題是，這顯然是互惠互利的，對吧？那麼酒吧的老闆是誰呢？誰不想升職加薪呢？

I think in any of the engagement, not just you require the market validation. You need to make sure you're doing your due diligence. So I will probably comment that the old compensation are open and the due diligence needs to be in place before we move forward. So it's not truly a showstopper. It's not boring, which sports is we have to make sure we conduct the appropriate process.

我認為在任何合作中，都需要市場驗證，而不僅僅是其他方面。你需要確保做好盡職調查。因此，我可能會評論說，先前的補償方案仍然有效，在繼續前進之前，需要進行盡職調查。所以這並不是什麼大問題。體育運動並不枯燥乏味，我們必須確保適當的程序。

So in other ways, the prerequisite conditions will be that you probably need to deliver 12 nanometers with a decent size of revenue, different from some of your customer profile customer, then both might consider to move it on. Is that the right consideration?

所以換句話說，前提條件可能是你需要交付 12 奈米的產品，並獲得可觀的收入，這與你的一些客戶群體有所不同，然後雙方都可能會考慮繼續推進。這種考慮是否正確？

No. I mean, I won't say that is a prerequisite, but that is one of the important considerations. But more importantly is if this collaboration is economically beneficial to both sides. And so I think the -- once we are more mature and ready, and we definitely will update you. But again, our position on this topic is we are open through that exploration.

不。我的意思是，我不會說這是必要條件，但這確實是重要的考慮因素之一。但更重要的是，這種合作是否對雙方都有經濟效益。所以我覺得——一旦我們更加成熟和準備就緒，我們一定會及時通知大家。但是，我們再次重申，我們對這個問題的立場是，我們願意進行探索。

Okay. So when can we expect to see the meaningful revenue contribution from 12 nanometers?

好的。那麼，我們什麼時候才能看到 12 奈米技術帶來實質的收入貢獻呢？

Well, I mean, right now for the early product bond is going to be in 2027. And so we're probably going to start seeing some contribution in 2027, but then ramping after that.

嗯，我的意思是，目前來看，早期產品債券的發行時間是 2027 年。因此，我們可能會在 2027 年開始看到一些貢獻，然後在此之後逐步增加。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

查理陳，摩根士丹利。

Thanks for taking my follow-up question. So it's actually wafer-on-wafer related. So Jason can you share with us who could be kind of memory partners? I mean, it seems that it requires a lot of so-called customized design in the phase, et cetera. So are those more Chinese partners? Or do you have some global top memory partners or away from wafer. And secondly, if you can, can you share some potential kind of in applications and the timing for wafer-on-wafer?

感謝您回答我的後續問題。所以這其實與晶圓疊層有關。傑森，可以跟我們分享哪些人可以成為你的記憶夥伴嗎？我的意思是，在這個階段似乎需要很多所謂的客製化設計等等。那麼，這些就是更多的中國合作夥伴嗎？或者你們是否有一些全球頂尖的記憶體合作夥伴，或不在晶圓領域？其次，如果可以的話，您能否分享一下晶圓疊層技術在應用和時間安排方面的潛在用途？

The wafer-to-wafer stacking capabilities, we are in mass production for some of the extremely small form factor devices in the IC space. The we're talking about that because we believe if you look at the markets going, and we believe this technology will serve more than just a small phone factor. It provides the option for the memory-to-memory, the logic-to-logic, logic-to-memory stacking options.

我們已將晶圓堆疊技術應用於積體電路領域中一些超小型裝置的大規模生產。我們之所以討論這個，是因為我們相信，如果你看看市場的發展趨勢，你會發現這項技術不僅適用於小型手機領域。它提供了記憶體到記憶體、邏輯到邏輯、邏輯到記憶體的堆疊選項。

So by providing the option to the customer, they say they can explore many different product actions. So at this point, the advanced packaging technology is developing into two cornerstone one is the DTC capability. Another is on the water-to-wafer stacking capability. And then once the technology is ready, then we get exposed to many different applications.

因此，他們表示，透過向客戶提供選擇，他們可以探索許多不同的產品操作。因此，目前先進的封裝技術正在發展成為兩大基石，一是DTC能力。另一個問題是水到晶圓的堆疊能力。一旦技術成熟，我們就會接觸到許多不同的應用。

On this wafer-on-wafer, do you see kind of advantage or differentiation to industry for simple TSMC or China FMC? I'm not sure maybe -- yeah, any sort of a differentiation you may have.

在這種晶圓疊層製造流程中，您認為它與普通的台積電或中國FMC相比，在業界有哪些優勢或差異化優勢？我不確定——是的，你可能有任何不同之處。

Well, I mean, the developing differentiation technologies is definitely on mandate. So we continue driving that technology differentiation. But at the same time, you have to make sure that you are part of the ecosystem where the market is going.

我的意思是，發展差異化技術絕對是當務之急。因此，我們將繼續推進技術差異化。但同時，你必須確保自己是市場發展生態系統的一部分。

So we see this from a market standpoint, on a technology product migration standpoint, we believe this is to a very important capability and technology. So we're preparing ourselves and to get that ready and then we can start exploring different business opportunities.

因此，從市場角度來看，從技術產品遷移的角度來看，我們認為這是一項非常重要的能力和技術。所以我們正在做準備，做好準備，然後我們就可以開始探索不同的商業機會了。

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you all for your questions. That concludes today's Q&A session. Now I'll turn it over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

女士們、先生們，感謝各位提出的問題。今天的問答環節到此結束。現在我將把發言權交給 UMC IR 主任，請他作總結發言。

Thank you for attending this conference today. We appreciate your questions. As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact ir@umc.com. Have a good day.

感謝各位今天蒞臨本次會議。感謝您的提問。如有任何後續問題，請隨時聯絡ir@umc.com。祝您一切順利。

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for third quarter 2025. We thank you for your participation in UMC's conference. There will be a webcast replay within two hours. Please visit at www.umc.com under the Investors, Events section. You may now disconnect. Thank you again. Goodbye.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，我們2025年第三季的會議到此結束。感謝您參加 UMC 的會議。兩小時內將提供網路直播回放。請造訪 www.umc.com，在「投資者」和「活動」欄位下查看。您現在可以斷開連線了。再次感謝。再見。