聯華電子 (UMC) 2004 Q1 法說會逐字稿

(OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS) I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Chitung Liu of UMC.

（操作員說明）我現在想將會議轉交給聯華電子的 Chitung Liu 先生。

Welcome and thank you very much for attending our first-quarter earnings conference call.

歡迎並非常感謝您參加我們的第一季財報電話會議。

We are hosting this conference call from Taipei, and here to help report our results are Mr. Jackson Hu, CEO, and Mr. Stan Hung, CFO.

我們在台北主持這次電話會議，執行長 Jackson Hu 先生和財務長 Stan Hung 先生將協助報告我們的表現。

Before beginning this presentation, I would like to remind everyone of our Safe Harbor policy.

在開始本演講之前，我想提醒大家我們的安全港政策。

That is, certain statements made during the course of our discussion today may constitute forward-looking statements which are based on management's current expectations and beliefs and are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including risks that may be beyond the Company's control.

也就是說，我們今天討論過程中所做的某些陳述可能構成前瞻性陳述，這些陳述基於管理層當前的預期和信念，並受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括以下風險：可能超出公司的控制範圍。

For these risks, please refer to UMC's filing with the SEC in the U.S. and SFC in ROC.

對於這些風險，請參閱聯華電子向美國 SEC 和中華民國 SFC 提交的文件。

I would like now to turn the call to today's speaker, Mr. Jackson Hu, CEO of UMC.

現在我想請今天的發言者，聯華電子執行長胡志明先生發言。

Thank you, Chitung.

謝謝你，吉東。

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today.

大家好，感謝您今天加入我們。

We appreciate your interest in UMC.

我們感謝您對聯華電子的興趣。

As usual, I'm going to start with a brief summary of our operating results for the first quarter of 2004.

像往常一樣，我將首先簡要總結 2004 年第一季的經營業績。

I assume that you all have seen our press release by now, so I will keep my remarks short.

我想你們現在已經看到了我們的新聞稿，所以我的發言將會簡短一些。

Following the summary, I will review the outlook and provide the guidance for the second quarter of 2004.

在總結之後，我將回顧 2004 年第二季的前景並提供指導。

Then we will leave the rest of the time open for your questions.

然後我們將在剩下的時間裡回答您的問題。

Overall speaking, Q1 was a very strong quarter for UMC.

總體而言，第一季對於聯華電子來說是一個非常強勁的季度。

The strong customer demand that we had seen in Q4 last year continued to increase every month across all market segments, particularly from communications and consumer products such as handsets, LCD, and digital-style camera.

我們在去年第四季看到，所有細分市場的強勁客戶需求每個月都在持續成長，特別是來自通訊和消費產品，如手機、液晶顯示器和數位相機。

Almost all the performance indicators are better than our forecasts, and the overall performance beats the seasonal pattern that we have traditionally experienced in the past.

幾乎所有的績效指標都優於我們的預測，整體表現優於我們過去傳統經驗的季節性模式。

Quarter-over-quarter revenue increased by 6.8 percent to 25.3 billion NT, or 767 million US$.

營收季增 6.8%，達到 253 億新台幣，即 7.67 億美元。

Quarter-over-quarter, operating income increased by 27 percent to 5.29 billion NT or 160 million US$.

營業收入較上季成長 27%，達到 52.9 億新台幣（1.6 億美元）。

Quarter-over-quarter, net income increased by 2.5 percent to 6.89 billion NT or 209 million US$.

淨利較上季成長2.5%，達到新台幣68.9億元，即2.09億美元。

The blended average selling price rose by 5 percent, as compared to the previous quarter.

與上一季相比，綜合平均售價上漲了 5%。

And the quarter-over-quarter shipments of 8-inch equipment wafers increased by 0.5 percent to 647,000 wafers.

8吋設備晶圓出貨量較上季成長0.5%至64.7萬片。

Please be reminded that this quarter, we have scheduled (indiscernible).

請注意，本季度我們已經安排了（音訊不清晰）。

The percentage of revenue from 0.18 microns and the smaller geometry technologies was 50 percent.

來自 0.18 微米和較小幾何形狀技術的收入百分比為 50%。

In response to continued strong demand, we are expanding our capacity.

為了滿足持續強勁的需求，我們正在擴大產能。

You all have heard that we are going to acquire the SiS (ph) Fab.

大家都聽說我們要收購SiS (ph) Fab。

So by the end of 2004, we are expecting our total capacity, including UNCi and the SiS Fab to increase by 20 percent year-over-year to 317 million 8-inch equivalent -- 3.17 million -- excuse me -- 3.17 million 8-inch equivalent wafers.

因此，到 2004 年底，我們預計包括 UNCi 和 SiS 晶圓廠在內的總產能將同比增長 20%，達到 3.17 億個 8 英寸當量 -- 317 萬個 -- 對不起 -- 317 萬個 8英寸等效晶圓。

Commercial productization at our 90-nanometer 8-inch fab started in the first quarter, and we have a (indiscernible) product that already passed a quality and reliability.

我們的 90 奈米 8 吋晶圓廠的商業產品化已於第一季開始，我們的（聽不清楚）產品已經通過了品質和可靠性測試。

And we will bring cutting edge capacity into commercial productization from our 12-inch 90-nanometer production source in the second quarter.

我們將在第二季將 12 吋 90 奈米生產源的尖端產能引入商業生產。

So that was a brief summary for the Q1 results.

這是第一季結果的簡要總結。

Now let me turn to the guidance for the second quarter of 2004.

現在讓我談談 2004 年第二季的指引。

We are expecting total wafer shipments to increase by approximately 10 percent.

我們預計晶圓總出貨量將成長約 10%。

The average selling price, or ASP, of our wafers is expected to increase by 5 percent in U.S. dollar terms.

以美元計算，我們晶圓的平均售價 (ASP) 預計將上漲 5%。

I would like to remind everyone that if NT dollars continue to appreciate against the US dollars, it might adversely impact our revenue by 1 to 2 percent.

我想提醒大家，如果新台幣兌美元繼續升值，可能會對我們的收入造成1%到2%的不利影響。

Capacity utilization is expected to remain at about 100 percent.

預計產能利用率將維持在100%左右。

Gross margin in the second quarter is expected to continue to improve due to higher ASP and increased wafer shipment.

由於平均售價上升和晶圓出貨量增加，預計第二季毛利率將繼續改善。

The percentage of revenues from 0.18 micron and smaller geometry technologies is expected to be in the mid-50 percent range.

0.18 微米及較小幾何形狀技術的收入百分比預計將在 50% 左右。

The percentage of revenue from 0.13 microns and smaller geometry technology are expected to reach the mid-teens.

0.13微米及更小幾何尺寸技術的收入百分比預計將達到十幾歲左右。

We are expecting that the communication market segment will remain the largest revenue pool, followed by the consumer and computer segments.

我們預期通訊細分市場仍將是最大的收入來源，其次是消費者和電腦細分市場。

I would also like to provide a quick recap of several key points or questions and answers that we went through during the local investor conference this afternoon in Taipei, Taiwan.

我還想快速回顧一下我們今天下午在台灣台北舉行的當地投資者會議上經歷的幾個關鍵點或問題和答案。

First one, there were frequent questions regarding our ASP increase in Q2 -- which factors contributed to the increase of ASP.

首先，關於第二季 ASP 成長的常見問題——哪些因素導致了 ASP 的成長。

Mainly there were two factors -- first through the price increase and secondly higher percentage of high-end technology.

主要有兩個因素，一是價格上漲，二是高端技術佔比提高。

The second question was regarding the long leadtime equipment delivery.

第二個問題是關於設備交付週期長的問題。

But in the industry, due to the high demand situation, some of the equipment vendors have stretched the delivery of some critical equipment.

但在產業內，由於需求旺盛的情況，一些設備供應商已經延長了一些關鍵設備的交付時間。

And it will have a slight impact to UMCi in Q2 and early Q3, and then it will be made up after that.

而且在Q2和Q3初期會對UMCi造成輕微影響，之後會得到彌補。

So the overall impact to UMC capacity is very little this year.

所以今年聯電產能整體受到的影響很小。

The third question was whether UMC is seeing a recession coming in year 2005.

第三個問題是聯華電子是否會在 2005 年看到經濟衰退。

And our answer is, no one knows for sure.

我們的答案是，沒有人確切知道。

However, if the equipment delivery is on the critical path and it does not allow the whole industry to expand quickly, and therefore customers cannot ramp up quickly; therefore, the chance for another inventory buildup situation in the near-term is slim.

但如果設備交付處於關鍵路徑，無法讓整個產業快速擴張，客戶無法快速成長；因此，短期內再次出現庫存增加情況的可能性很小。

And therefore, we hope that another recession in 2005 won't happen.

因此，我們希望 2005 年不會再次出現經濟衰退。

So those are the answers for three common questions asked this afternoon.

這些是今天下午提出的三個常見問題的答案。

So that pretty much concludes my presentation.

我的演講就到此結束了。

Operator, we can accept the questions now.

接線員，我們現在可以接受提問了。

Thank you, gentlemen. (OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS) Michael McConnell of Pacific Crest Securities.

謝謝你們，先生們。 （操作員說明）Pacific Crest Securities 的 Michael McConnell。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Great results.

很好的結果。

Looking at the comments regarding the equipment, can you be a little bit more specific as to which equipment right now is strained?

看看關於設備的評論，您能具體說明一下目前哪些設備緊張嗎？

My understanding is mostly lithography tools.

我的理解主要是光刻工具。

Can you expand on that a little bit please?

能詳細說明一下嗎？

You are right.

你是對的。

Okay.

好的。

(multiple speakers) scanners.

（多個發言者）掃描器。

Okay.

好的。

And looking at the customer base, thanks for the insight on the product strength.

看看客戶群，感謝您對產品實力的洞察。

Can you expand a little bit into the consumer side, where you are starting to see some strength in Q2?

您能否將業務擴展到消費者方面，您在第二季開始看到一些優勢？

It sounds like that is also going to be somewhat of a leadership segment for you.

聽起來這對你來說也將是一個領導部分。

Any particular products that look strong there as well?

有什麼特別的產品看起來也很強大嗎？

I mentioned briefly that digital still camera, (indiscernible) DVD players, LCD drivers, all of those will remain to be very strong.

我簡單地提到了數位相機、（聽不清楚）DVD 播放器、LCD 驅動器，所有這些都將保持非常強勁的勢頭。

Okay, and on the communications side, it sounds like it's mostly DSPs.

好的，在通訊方面，聽起來主要是 DSP。

Would PLDs also be looking pretty strong for Q2?

第二季 PLD 看起來也會相當強勁嗎？

Yes, those will be very strong.

是的，這些將非常強大。

The cell phone baseband.

手機基帶。

We have the PDA for communication applications.

我們有用於通訊應用的 PDA。

Those are very strong.

這些都非常強。

Finally, it looks like on the guidance that you had given for Q1 for the net nonoperating income, I think you guided to basically zero, and it looks like we actually did see about 1.6 billion NT.

最後，看起來你對第一季非營業淨收入的指導，我認為你指導基本上為零，看起來我們實際上確實看到了大約16億新台幣。

Can you give us a feel for Q2?

可以跟我們介紹一下 Q2 嗎？

I know it's tough to always quantify this, but Q2, what you are expecting in terms of any potential stock sales or where that should track sequentially -- that line item?

我知道總是很難量化這一點，但是第二季度，您對任何潛在的庫存銷售有何期望，或者應該按順序追蹤哪個訂單項目？

Okay, I think we expect to see higher nonoperating income through selling of the stocks.

好吧，我認為我們預計透過出售股票會看到更高的非營業收入。

And the current estimate is it will be probably double the amount that we originally forecast.

目前的估計是它可能是我們最初預測的兩倍。

And so therefore, it will be approaching 5 billion NT.

因此，將接近50億新台幣。

Michael, just to add a comment regarding the guidance for Q1 nonoperating, we did not sell any of the holdings in a big way in the first quarter.

邁克爾，只是補充一下有關第一季非經營性指導的評論，我們在第一季沒有大規模出售任何持股。

The total gain (ph) is really from the convergence of the exchangeable bonds held by both bondholders.

總收益（ph）實際上來自兩個債券持有人持有的可交換債券的聚合。

It is really beyond our control.

這確實超出了我們的控制範圍。

Great, okay.

太好了，好吧。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Ashis Kumar of CS First Boston.

CS First 波士頓的 Ashis Kumar。

Good evening and congratulations on the good results.

晚上好，恭喜取得的好成績。

My first question is that clearly on the back of volume and ASP increase, you are expecting gross margin expansion in 2Q.

我的第一個問題是，顯然在銷量和平均售價成長的背景下，您預計第二季的毛利率會成長。

What is your expectation for 3Q, as a lot of your capacity addition is back-ended?

由於許多新增產能都是後端的，您對第三季的預期是什麼？

Do you expect further margin expansion into 3Q and 4Q?

您預計第三季和第四季利潤率會進一步擴大嗎？

That's the first question.

這是第一個問題。

I think it is fair to make that assumption, that Q2 will be better than Q1 and the second half of this year will be better than first half of this year.

我認為做出這樣的假設是公平的：第二季度將好於第一季度，今年下半年將好於今年上半年。

As the volume continues to increase due to the availability of new capacity, we expect to see better margins as well.

隨著新產能的出現，銷售量持續增加，我們預期利潤率也會更高。

Okay.

好的。

And with the semi environment quite strong, a number of companies including UMC have reported an increase in inventory and an increase in (indiscernible) days.

由於半導體環境相當強勁，包括聯華電子在內的許多公司都報告庫存增加和（難以辨別的）天數增加。

Could you throw some light on this (multiple speakers) perspective?

您能否對這個（多個發言者）的觀點做一些闡述？

You mention about UMC?

你提到聯華電子嗎？

Yes.

是的。

That your DSOs and inventory there have already (indiscernible) or has it reduced?

您的 DSO 和庫存已經（難以辨認）還是減少了？

It's only a two-day difference.

這只是兩天的差別。

It is mostly coming along with our enlarging revenue base.

這主要是隨著我們收入基礎的擴大而出現的。

Also, the net for the revenue base is even larger, so I believe two days should be (indiscernible).

另外，收入基礎的淨額更大，所以我相信應該是兩天（難以辨認）。

And Chitung, one last question.

吉東，最後一個問題。

Your earlier expectation was the our R&D expense should run between 7 to 9 percent of revenue for 2004 -- we saw this (ph) on the back of the previous earnings call. 1Q was quite low.

你們之前的預期是我們的研發費用應佔 2004 年營收的 7% 到 9%——我們在上次財報電話會議上看到了這一點。一季相當低。

What shall we model for the remaining quarters?

我們應該為剩下的幾個季度建立什麼樣的模型？

The current budget plan -- I remember there was a second question last time.

目前的預算計畫——我記得上次還有第二個問題。

The current plan is about 6 percent.

目前的計劃約為6%。

And in Q1, it was a little bit lower and also partly contributed by a higher revenue, so it was slightly higher than 5 percent.

在第一季度，這一數字略低一些，部分原因是收入增加，因此略高於 5%。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Dan Heyler of Merrill Lynch.

美林證券的丹·海勒。

I have a follow-up today on the capacity expansion again.

今天我又跟進了產能擴張的情況。

What is interesting is if you were to take your year-end/year-end capacity number that you have highlighted here of 933,000 wafers quarter versus the 672 number, I looked -- it was a 37 percent increase.

有趣的是，如果你看一下你在這裡強調的年終產能數字，季度產能為 933,000 片晶圓，而我看到季度產能為 672 片，增長了 37%。

But if we were to take out the SiS (indiscernible), it looks like about a 26 percent year-end/year-end basis, right, which doesn't seem as though it's a lot of capacity.

但如果我們去掉 SiS（聽不清楚），年末/年末基礎上看起來大約是 26%，對吧，這看起來容量並不大。

How do you -- at this point are seeing see the shortages and how are you going to address that growth rate?

目前您如何看待短缺問題以及您將如何解決成長率問題？

That is, does 26 percent seem as though you can meet the broader market, or can you get demands, say, on advanced technology that you think can rationalize a higher number than that?

也就是說，26% 看起來您是否可以滿足更廣泛的市場，或者您可以滿足您認為可以合理化更高數字的先進技術的需求？

That is, if you ramp capacity faster, can we see that capacity number go up?

也就是說，如果你更快提高產能，我們能看到產能數量上升嗎？

Okay.

好的。

I think it is fair to say that we are investing in the advanced technology capacity, okay?

我認為可以公平地說，我們正在投資先進技術能力，好嗎？

And most of those are in 12-inch, for 0.13 (ph) Microns, 90 nanometers, and smaller geometries in the future.

其中大多數為 12 英寸、0.13 (ph) 微米、90 奈米以及未來更小的幾何尺寸。

And there will be some incremental expansion for 8-inch, but the majority will be 12-inch advanced process technology, which will be needed sooner or later.

而且8吋也會有一些增量擴產，但大部分還是12吋的先進製程技術，這是遲早需要的。

And normally when we do our expansion plan, we do receive the forecast from our customers, especially the high-volume market leaders, and then we also do our own assessment by citing (ph) the market and then come up with our final decision.

通常，當我們制定擴張計劃時，我們確實會收到客戶的預測，尤其是大批量市場領導者的預測，然後我們也會透過引用市場來進行自己的評估，然後得出我們的最​​終決定。

So hopefully that answers your question.

希望這能回答你的問題。

We do have reasonably high confidence level that the capacity that we have planned for will all be utilized.

我們確實有相當高的信心，相信我們計劃的產能將全部被利用。

Right.

正確的。

And if you see demand on the advanced technologies being in fact even stronger than you think, are there any opportunities to -- equipment is quite tight and you said that you didn't think you could up your ramp plans at all.

如果您發現對先進技術的需求實際上比您想像的還要強勁，那麼是否有機會——設備非常緊張，並且您說您根本不認為可以提高產能計劃。

Are you pretty much capped out at the current levels on advanced technology, from your numbers here at 922?

從您這裡的數字 922 來看，您目前的先進技術水準是否已經達到上限？

That's a good question.

這是個好問題。

We are evaluating the demand on a monthly basis.

我們每月評估需求。

However, honestly speaking, to further extend the capacity expansion this year, it would big difficult due to the long leadtime of the scanners.

但老實說，今年要進一步擴大產能，由於掃描器的交貨期較長，難度較高。

So any additional (indiscernible) investments will help in 2005.

因此，任何額外的（難以辨別的）投資都會對 2005 年有所幫助。

Great.

偉大的。

And on your design activity on 90 nanometer, could you give us an update there, outside of your key strategic partner there on 90 nanometer, where we could see additional products or application?

關於您在 90 奈米上的設計活動，您能否給我們一些最新信息，除了您在 90 奈米上的主要戰略合作夥伴之外，我們還可以在哪裡看到其他產品或應用？

A little color there and where you see 90 nanometer outside of your key client there.

那裡有一點顏色，你可以在你的關鍵客戶之外看到 90 奈米。

Yes, we have actually more than 10 customer products being designed in with 90 nanometer, and moving forward we will have more.

是的，我們實際上有 10 多個客戶產品採用 90 奈米設計，未來我們還會有更多。

Again, as I mentioned in this afternoon's meeting, there were customers that will adopt the 90 nanometers -- included FPGAs, the high-end, base-end customers, the graphics customers, and so on and so forth.

正如我在今天下午的會議上提到的，有些客戶將採用 90 奈米——包括 FPGA、高端、基礎端客戶、圖形客戶等等。

This year?

今年？

They will (indiscernible) the design, yes.

他們會（聽不清楚）設計，是的。

So more of the same and more design strength.

所以更多的相同和更多的設計力量。

Could you talk a little bit about consumer.

能談談消費者嗎？

Do you see 90 nanometer products in the consumer segment?

您在消費領域看到 90 奈米產品嗎？

Not yet.

還沒有。

Matt Gabel (ph) of Calypso Capital.

Calypso Capital 的 Matte·加貝爾（博士）。

I was wondering if you could talk about the segment performance in more detail on a sequential basis for Q2 -- what you think each segment will do sequentially.

我想知道您是否可以按順序更詳細地討論第二季的細分市場表現——您認為每個細分市場將按順序做什麼。

Okay.

好的。

The communications segment will remain to be the largest revenue contributor and followed by consumer.

通訊領域仍將是最大的收入貢獻者，其次是消費者。

And this quarter -- I mean Q1, we're seeing a 42 percent contribution from communications, 30 percent from consumers, and 24 percent from computers.

本季——我的意思是第一季度，我們看到通訊貢獻了 42%，消費者貢獻了 30%，電腦貢獻了 24%。

And that profile probably will remain to be the case, and the communications segment may even increase.

這種情況可能會持續下去，通訊領域甚至可能會增加。

Okay.

好的。

Also, could you speak about your plans for end-of-year monthly wafer capacity for fab 12A and for UMCi?

另外，您能否談談 fab 12A 和 UMCi 年末每月晶圓產能計劃？

What are you interested to know?

您有興趣了解什麼？

What the monthly --

每月什麼——

We have announced that the total capacity plan for 12A is 20K -- 20,000 wafers, and then 10,000 for UMCi.

我們已經宣布12A的總產能計劃是20K——20,000片晶圓，然後是UMCi 10,000片。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Shailesh Jaitly of Nomura.

野村證券的 Shailesh Jaitly。

Just wanted to touch base on the pricing issues.

只是想談談定價問題。

If you were to recall back last year, literally all the foundries are finding volume customers on a longer-term pricing basis.

如果您回想一下去年，實際上所有代工廠都在以長期定價為基礎尋找批量客戶。

So I was wondering when any such pricing contract expires, means when does your last contract with any customer which is based on the longer-term pricing agreements expire?

所以我想知道任何此類定價合約何時到期，這意味著您與任何客戶的基於長期定價協議的最後一份合約何時到期？

It will be difficult to answer that question, especially we have multiple customers.

這個問題很難回答，尤其是我們有多位客戶。

But it's fair to say that due to demand and supply, we were able to stop the price erosion.

但可以公平地說，由於需求和供應，我們能夠阻止價格下跌。

And basically in Q1, that has been done.

基本上在第一季度，這已經完成了。

And then we started to see the impact of a price increase and that (technical difficulty).

然後我們開始看到價格上漲的影響（技術難度）。

It's not proper for me to get into how many customers will have their contracts expired.

我不適合透露有多少客戶的合約將到期。

Do you still have some customers who are tied into the longer-term pricing agreement?

您還有一些受長期定價協議約束的客戶嗎？

We do.

我們的確是。

Would it be fair to assume that some of these customers, when their prices are renegotiated, that the market value could have been the key driver for these ASPs?

是否可以公平地假設，其中一些客戶在重新協商價格時，市場價值可能是這些平均售價的關鍵驅動因素？

It is hard to estimate.

很難估計。

Some of them, yes, but not everyone.

是的，其中一些人，但不是所有人。

If I were to look at the 0.13 Micron, are there customers still who are being charged on the die-based (ph) pricing at the 0.13 Micron node?

如果我查看 0.13 微米，是否還有客戶在 0.13 微米節點以基於晶片 (ph) 的定價收費？

We probably have a few.

我們可能有一些。

Okay.

好的。

And would it be possible for you to characterize roughly what proportion of your customers would be on the die-based pricing at 0.13 Microns?

您能否大致描述一下您的客戶中採用 0.13 微米晶片定價的客戶比例是多少？

Maybe around 5 to 10 percent.

也許大約是百分之五到百分之十。

5 to 10 percent.

5％至10％。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Mark FitzGerald of Banc of America.

美國銀行的馬克·菲茨杰拉德。

I was wondering if you could give us any idea if there is capacity increases available to better yields at some of the leading-edge technology?

我想知道您能否告訴我們是否可以透過增加產能來提高某些尖端技術的產量？

Where are you with yields with 300 millimeter and 130 nanometer technologies?

300 毫米和 130 奈米技術的良率如何？

Sorry, I don't understand your question.

抱歉，我不明白你的問題。

Could you repeat again?

你能再說一次嗎？

Is there opportunities to improve your capacity by improving the yields on the leading-edge technology, or do you have the yields up --?

是否有機會透過提高尖端技術的產量來提高您的產能，或者您的產量是否有所提高？

We are constantly doing that, and we are showing you the enhancement on the some of the advanced technology.

我們一直在這樣做，並向您展示一些先進技術的增強。

Yes.

是的。

And can you give us an idea where the yields are for 300 millimeter at this point?

您能否告訴我們此時 300 毫米的產量是多少？

That is a very difficult question to answer because it gets into the contracting of each customer's product.

這是一個非常難以回答的問題，因為它涉及每個客戶產品的合約。

It would be difficult to give an answer.

很難給答案。

But put it this way.

但這樣說吧。

On the 0.13 Micron technology, we have the best (indiscernible) in the industry or the (indiscernible), and this is according to our high volume customers.

在 0.13 微米技術上，我們擁有業界最好的（聽不清楚）或（聽不清楚），這是根據我們的大量客戶的說法。

So basically, there is probably not a lot of capacity to be gained by improving yields then?

那麼基本上，透過提高產量可能不會獲得很多產能？

There will some.

會有一些。

And you can always continue to improve the yield.

而且您始終可以繼續提高產量。

Okay.

好的。

And one other question.

還有一個問題。

Do you sense that any of your customers have responded to the potential price increases that are happening by building inventory at the lower ASPs?

您是否感覺到您的任何客戶已經透過以較低的平均售價建立庫存來應對潛在的價格上漲？

Right now, it is very difficult for any customer to build inventory.

目前，任何客戶都很難建立庫存。

We don't believe that is the case.

我們認為情況並非如此。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Deutsche Bank's Nicholas DeGoy (ph).

德意志銀行的尼古拉斯·德戈伊（博士）。

Since looking at your plans, you still are basically targeting the Fab 12 (indiscernible) by the end of the year, which is pretty much full capacity, UMCi at half capacity.

考慮到您的計劃，您基本上仍然以今年年底前的 Fab 12（聽不清楚）為目標，該工廠幾乎已滿負荷，UMCi 的產能則為一半。

Do you need to make plans for breaking ground for a new fab in Taiwan for 12-inch for equipping Lexia (ph), is my first question.

我的第一個問題是，您是否需要製定在台灣破土動工建造一座12英寸新晶圓廠以裝備Lexia（ph）的計劃。

I mentioned earlier that we are evaluating the demand on a monthly basis to see if we need to invest further.

我之前提到，我們正在每月評估需求，看看是否需要進一步投資。

And each site, 12A and UMCi has the capability of expanding to 40,000 wafers before we do the additional facility, so we have plenty of room.

在我們建造額外設施之前，12A 和 UMCi 的每個站點都有能力擴展到 40,000 片晶圓，因此我們有足夠的空間。

Okay, so it would be within existing floor space, basically?

好的，那麼基本上它會在現有的佔地面積內嗎？

Yes, within the existing facility.

是的，在現有設施內。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

And concerning your earlier comments on lead times for (indiscernible), if you were basically to continue ramping capacity into '05, does this imply you need to basically place orders for those as soon as Q2?

關於您之前對（難以辨認）交貨時間的評論，如果您基本上要在 05 年繼續提高產能，這是否意味著您基本上需要在第二季立即下訂單？

Yes, that is a fair assumption.

是的，這是一個合理的假設。

Great.

偉大的。

And very last question on this segment, you had great growth in communications in Q1 plus 18 percent sequentially in terms of revenues.

關於該細分市場的最後一個問題是，第一季通訊業務取得了巨大成長，營收比上一季成長了 18%。

You have just said that the percentage of revenues from comps could increase again in Q2, implying again a robust sequential growth.

您剛剛說過，第二季來自公司的收入百分比可能會再次增加，這再次意味著強勁的環比成長。

If we compare this with what some of your customers have reported, you seem to have done better on average.

如果我們將其與您的一些客戶的報告進行比較，您的平均表現似乎會更好。

Is this coming from you getting more (indiscernible) market share ODMs (ph), new customers coming in, or how do you explain why this segment has been growing so fast for you?

這是因為您獲得了更多（難以辨別的）市場份額 ODM (ph)、新客戶的進來，或者您如何解釋為什麼這個細分市場對您來說增長如此之快？

I think first of all, we have a good product for the volume (ph) on communication.

我認為首先，我們在通訊量（ph）方面有一個很好的產品。

We have pretty much all the leaders making products here.

我們幾乎所有的領先者都在這裡生產產品。

And as the market segment grows, we benefit from it.

隨著細分市場的成長，我們也從中受益。

That is probably the best way of putting it.

這可能是最好的表達方式。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Donald Lu of Goldman Sachs.

高盛的唐納德·盧。

I have a couple of questions.

我有一些問題。

First, can you give us the guidance on what percentage of Asia customers' revenues will (ph) you see in the second quarter?

首先，您能否告訴我們第二季亞洲客戶營收將佔多少百分比？

Say that again, please.

請再說一次。

In the first quarter, your revenue by geography -- the North American part of the revenue has increased significantly, to 43 percent from 39 percent in Q4 (ph).

在第一季度，您按地理位置劃分的收入——北美部分的收入顯著增加，從第四季度的 39% 增加到 43%（ph）。

And Asia customer is now at just 7 percent in Q1.

而亞洲客戶在第一季的佔比僅為 7%。

My question is how much will that percentage be in Q2?

我的問題是第二季這個百分比是多少？

Okay.

好的。

I would be surprised if North American continues to increase, because as you know, many market leaders reside in that area and they are also the movers and have the capability to drive the new applications.

如果北美市場繼續成長，我會感到驚訝，因為如您所知，許多市場領導者都位於該地區，他們也是推動者並有能力推動新應用程式。

So I think -- this a gut feeling, by the way -- I think if there is a change, it is possible that North America may increase further.

所以我認為——順便說一句，這是一種直覺——我認為如果有變化，北美可能會進一步增加。

Can you give a guidance on the percentage of Asia customers, since those customers probably have a lower --?

您能否就亞洲客戶的百分比提供指導，因為這些客戶的比例可能較低—？

I cannot.

我不能。

Sorry.

對不起。

I cannot.

我不能。

My second question is your process (ph) 0.13 revenue is going to increase according to the guidance by about 44 percent sequentially in the second quarter.

我的第二個問題是，根據指導，您的流程 (ph) 0.13 收入將在第二季連續成長約 44%。

Why the ASP improvement in the second quarter (indiscernible) similar to the first quarter (indiscernible) 5 percent (ph) improvement?

為什麼第二季的 ASP 改善（音訊不清晰）與第一季（音訊不清晰）5%（ph）的改善相似？

I think the 0.13 Micron increase is from maybe 12 percent to mid-teens.

我認為 0.13 微米的增幅可能是從 12% 到十幾歲左右。

And we have also a large technology product portfolio.

我們也擁有龐大的技術產品組合。

So the weighted average assumption is the increase is 5 percent.

因此，加權平均假設增幅為 5%。

I don't see where the problem is.

我不明白問題出在哪裡。

The answer is really you should (indiscernible) that our 0.25 or 0.35 might increase in absolute terms as well, which will dilute our weighted average selling price.

答案是，您確實應該（難以辨別）我們的 0.25 或 0.35 的絕對值也可能會增加，這將稀釋我們的加權平均售價。

So it's probably not really a good way to only look at the absolute growth for 0.13.

因此，僅查看 0.13 的絕對增長可能並不是一個好方法。

Yes, but if you compare the first quarter results versus the Q4 results, it seems like most of the increase in terms of percentage of revenues, most of the increases are from the 0.18 Micron technology build.

是的，但如果你將第一季的結果與第四季的結果進行比較，似乎大部分成長都來自於收入百分比，大部分成長來自 0.18 微米技術建構。

But it seems like according to the guidance that in the second quarter, there will be more increase in the 0.13 Micron node, so I would think that by that, we should get more ASP from the product mix part.

但根據指導，似乎在第二季度，0.13微米節點將會有更多的成長，所以我認為，到那時，我們應該從產品組合部分獲得更多的ASP。

I don't know how to verify your assumption.

我不知道如何驗證你的假設。

The pricing is a very complex function, because we have so many different products and different technologies.

定價是一個非常複雜的功能，因為我們有許多不同的產品和不同的技術。

So I really don't know how to answer that question.

所以我真的不知道該如何回答這個問題。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

(indiscernible) of Morgan Stanley.

（音頻不清）摩根士丹利。

I have two questions for you.

我有兩個問題想問你。

First, in terms of the manufacturing cost, despite your wafer shipments growing by just about a half-point (ph) in Q1, I noticed that your other manufacturing costs -- that's excluding depreciation -- increased by 5.3 percent, and just wanted to understand why the large discrepancy in Q1.

首先，就製造成本而言，儘管第一季你們的晶圓出貨量僅增加了半個百分點，但我注意到你們的其他製造成本（不包括折舊）增加了 5.3%，我只是想了解為什麼Q1 存在如此大的差異。

Just a second, please.

請稍等。

You are referring to which part again, please?

請問您又指的是哪一部分？

Other manufacturing costs in Q1 versus Q4 of last year.

第一季的其他製造成本與去年第四季的比較。

This is excluding depreciation.

這不包括折舊。

0.13 wafers will have higher costs as well, so the mix improvement also will bring some higher costs.

0.13晶圓的成本也會更高，因此結構的改良也會帶來一些更高的成本。

So if you compare to revenue we grow by 6.8 percent, you mentioned the cost is only growing by about 5 percent.

因此，如果與我們成長 6.8% 的收入進行比較，您提到成本僅成長了 5% 左右。

That is really due to the higher mix of the shipments.

這其實是由於出貨量的混合程度較高所致。

And should we expect a similar pattern next quarter or is there room for some cost management here, maybe partially due to (indiscernible) improvements?

我們是否應該預期下個季度會出現類似的模式，或者這裡是否有一些成本管理的空間，也許部分是由於（難以辨別的）改進？

It's a difficult one to answer because the mix of technology and products.

由於技術和產品的混合，這是一個很難回答的問題。

Usually on volume increases, you benefit from the volume.

通常，隨著交易量的增加，您會從交易量中受益。

Okay.

好的。

And my second question is on your long-term investments.

我的第二個問題是關於你們的長期投資。

In your (indiscernible) announcement you mentioned that the book value of the long-term investments is about 72.8 billion NT dollars and the estimated fair value is $129.7 billion NT.

在你的（聽不清楚）的公告中，你提到長期投資的帳面價值約為新台幣728億元，估計公允價值為新台幣1297億元。

And I presume this includes your other foundry business, such as UMCi and UMCJ and also some of the so-called noncore investments.

我認為這包括你們的其他代工業務，例如 UMCi 和 UMCJ 以及一些所謂的非核心投資。

Could you help me split this up in terms of how much is other foundry investments and what does nonfoundry do (ph) in the market value?

您能否幫我將其拆分為其他代工廠投資有多少以及非代工廠在市場價值中的作用是什麼（ph）？

This includes UMCi and UMCJ.

這包括 UMCi 和 UMCJ。

Okay.

好的。

And would you have a number on what is it excluding UMCi and UMCJ?

您能提供一下不包含 UMCi 和 UMCJ 的數字嗎？

The majority of the foundry industry related is UMCi and UMCJ.

與代工產業相關的大部分是UMCi 和UMCJ。

And some, like our holding Faraday, is also in the foundry industry.

還有一些，像是我們控股的法拉第，也是從事代工行業的。

Also the Hsin-Chu (ph) photomask joint venture is also under the foundry industry.

此外，新竹光掩模合資企業也屬於代工業。

But that's relatively small compared to our holdings to UMCi and UMCJ.

但與我們所持有的 UMCi 和 UMCJ 相比，這個數字相對較小。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Pranab Sarmah of Daiwa.

大和的普拉納布‧薩爾瑪 (Pranab Sarmah)。

I have a follow-up on the nonoperating profit guidance for the second quarter.

我對第二季度的營業外利潤指引有後續追蹤。

Did you say it was 5 billion that is in this net disposable investment gain on the second quarter of '04?

您是否說過 04 年第二季的可支配淨投資收益中有 50 億美元？

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

And on the capacity utilization side, probably you have reached 104 percent sometime in the second quarter.

在產能利用率方面，可能在第二季的某個時候達到了 104%。

You were (indiscernible) that was historical high capacity (indiscernible) rate.

你（聽不清楚）這是歷史高容量（聽不清楚）率。

What type of confidence do you have this time and how much probably can you really boast that capacity utilization?

這次您有什麼信心？您在多大程度上可以誇耀產能利用率？

Would you go above 140 if necessary?

如果有必要的話你會超過140嗎？

Right now, we are estimating it to reach 100 percent.

現在，我們估計它會達到 100%。

As you remember, our capacity is expanding, right?

您還記得，我們​​的產能正在擴大，對吧？

So 12A and UMCi in third quarter the SiS, they are all expanding, so we will have more capacity.

所以第三季的12A和UMCi SiS，他們都在擴張，所以我們會有更多的產能。

The way we calculate our capacity utilization rate is really based upon the maximum available capacity at the base, so it will be rather difficult to see UMC has way above 100 percent utilization rate.

我們計算產能利用率的方式實際上是基於基地的最大可用產能，因此很難看到聯華電子的利用率遠高於 100%。

Sometimes, the new equipment delivers earlier than scheduled, then we may be able to achieve slightly over 100 percent, but that chance under the current circumstance, given the long leadtime of the current (ph) delivery, is going to quite difficult.

有時，新設備比預定時間提前交付，那麼我們可能能夠實現略高於100%的目標，但在目前的情況下，考慮到目前交付的提前期較長，這個機會會相當困難。

All right.

好的。

And one question on the first quarter '04 revenue.

還有一個關於 04 年第一季營收的問題。

Could you give us how much of -- do you have any contribution from the non-wafer (indiscernible) revenue in the first quarter '04?

您能否告訴我們 04 年第一季的非晶圓（難以辨認）收入有多少貢獻？

If it is, how many percentages it is?

如果是的話，比例是多少？

About (ph) 5 percent.

約 (ph) 5%。

And that is mainly from what area?

那主要來自哪些地區？

Tech (ph) service and some also IP and also the photomask.

技術（ph）服務，有些還有IP和光掩模。

Mostly all the quarters are similar.

大多數情況下，所有宿舍都是相似的。

Any contribution from the fees, like when you are referring a customer to the fees and probably aren't getting any benefit out of that?

費用是否有任何貢獻，例如當您向客戶推薦費用但可能沒有從中獲得任何好處時？

No.

不。

No, okay.

不，好吧。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Ivan Goh of Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein.

Ivan Goh 的 Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein。

Good evening.

晚安.

A couple of questions.

有幾個問題。

First of all, it seems as if the delay in equipment installation at Fab 12 and UMCi, the notification itself was pretty short before the equipment was actually supposed to be installed.

首先，Fab 12 和 UMCi 的設備安裝似乎有延遲，在設備實際安裝之前通知本身就很短。

Can you just perhaps talk about what kind of assurance you have received that the equipment will be installed when you want it to be installed, according to your capacity projections?

您能否談談您收到了什麼樣的保證，根據您的產能預測，設備將在您希望安裝時安裝？

This is -- the common practice in the industry is to pay a large percentage of a deposit to secure the priority for equipment in the delivery, and we have done that.

這就是——行業內的普遍做法是支付很大比例的定金來確保設備的優先交付，而我們也做到了。

So the vendor -- (indiscernible) expected a problem; otherwise, we should have the equipment installed.

所以供應商－（聽不清楚）預計會出現問題；否則，我們應該安裝設備。

Okay.

好的。

Was it that you didn't put any deposit before, that's why the delivery was delayed, and was that the reason?

是不是之前沒有交定金，所以才延遲出貨，是這個原因嗎？

No, we have paid most of our -- we have placed our orders in Q3 last year and we have paid our deposit.

不，我們已經支付了大部分——我們在去年第三季下了訂單，並且已經支付了押金。

The vendor -- some of the vendors had components of issues early this year, and the situation was improved in the later half of the year.

供應商－今年年初，部分供應商出現了部分問題，下半年情況改善。

I see, so it was a component issue.

我明白了，所以這是一個組件問題。

That's correct.

這是正確的。

The other question is how will this delay actually impact the UMCi startup losses into the second and third quarter?

另一個問題是，這種延遲實際上將如何影響第二季和第三季的 UMCi 新創公司虧損？

As I mentioned earlier, the industry is seeing in the second quarter and early third quarter, but it will catch up in later third quarter and then first quarter.

正如我之前提到的，該行業在第二季和第三季初會看到這一情況，但會在第三季末和第一季迎頭趕上。

So at the end of the year, we will have the (indiscernible) wafer -- (indiscernible) capacity.

因此，到今年年底，我們將擁有（聽不清楚）晶圓－（聽不清楚）產能。

So product losses will continue to be very high until the fourth quarter?

那麼產品損失將持續到第四季很高嗎？

Actually in Q3, you will start to catch up.

實際上在第三季度，你就會開始迎頭趕上。

Okay.

好的。

And two other questions.

還有另外兩個問題。

First of all, can you perhaps give an idea of what is the (indiscernible) leadtimes today that you are seeing today at your leading-edge 0.13 versus, say, 0.25?

首先，您能否大致了解一下您今天看到的領先優勢 0.13 與 0.25 的（難以辨別的）提前期是多少？

Again, it depends on the complexity of a customer's product.

同樣，這取決於客戶產品的複雜性。

If it was on 0.25 micron product, they may have a high number of mask (indiscernible).

如果是 0.25 微米的產品，他們可能有大量的光罩（難以辨別）。

So we have not seen major changes in our delivery times.

因此，我們的交貨時間沒有發生重大變化。

Would you be able to give a general reference?

能給個一般性的參考嗎？

It is around 12 to 14 weeks.

大約是12到14週。

For 0.13 (ph)?

0.13（ph）？

Right.

正確的。

Okay.

好的。

And last question I have is in regards to 90 nanometer, you were saying that you're going to move 90 nanometer to 12 inch production soon.

我的最後一個問題是關於 90 奈米的，您說您很快就會將 90 奈米轉移到 12 英寸生產。

Can you perhaps talk a bit about what kind of contribution 90 nanometer you will see in the fourth quarter of this year.

您能否談談今年第四季 90 奈米將帶來什麼樣的貢獻？

It will be a few percentage.

這將是幾個百分比。

Can we assume that if your 12 inch capacity is delayed by equipment installation, it will have a direct impact on the amount of 90 nanometer you can do this year?

我們是否可以假設，如果你的12吋產能因設備安裝而推遲，會對你今年可以做的90奈米量產生直接影響？

No, that is not true.

不，那不是真的。

The demand for 90 nanometer production is still small this year.

今年90奈米生產的需求仍然很小。

Okay, thank you so much.

好的，非常感謝。

Mehdi Hosseini of FBR.

FBR 的 Mehdi Hosseini。

A couple of questions.

有幾個問題。

Starting with demand-side, you were talking about second half expected to be better than the first half.

從需求端開始，您談到下半年預計會比上半年好。

And considering the fact that the leadtimes are (indiscernible) a little bit above on quarter, could you elaborate on which end market you see strength, and to that extent, how do think different end markets are going to perform in the second half?

考慮到交貨時間（難以辨別）比季度稍長一點，您能否詳細說明您認為哪個終端市場表現強勁，以及在某種程度上，您認為不同的終端市場在下半年的表現如何？

And I have some follow-up questions.

我還有一些後續問題。

Yes.

是的。

Well, as far as we can see right now, the communication market is very strong, followed by consumer and then computer.

嗯，就我們目前所看到的而言，通訊市場非常強勁，其次是消費者市場，然後是電腦市場。

But other additional information that you would like to know?

但您還想了解其他附加資訊嗎？

I am more interested about the second half of the year.

我對下半年比較有興趣。

Second half of the year, we don't have the visibility that far out yet.

今年下半年，我們還沒看到那麼遠的前景。

Okay.

好的。

Because early on you said that you expected the second half to be better than the first half.

因為你一開始就說過預計下半場會比上半場好。

So just wondering what is driving that thinking?

那麼只是想知道是什麼推動了這個想法？

It is based on the capacity that will be available -- the new capacity that will be added to our overall supply.

它基於可用的產能——將添加到我們總體供應中的新產能。

Sure.

當然。

In terms of capacity, you were talking about it's going to the bottom in terms of a common leadtime.

就產能而言，您所說的共同交貨時間即將觸底。

Do you foresee a scenario where by midyear you would pull in CAPEX dollars from '05 into '04 so you can step up your orders so that you would have equipment in place by early '05 -- you would ensure that you would get deliveries on time?

您是否預見到一種情況，到年中，您將從 05 年開始將資本支出投入到 04 年，這樣您就可以增加訂單，以便您在 05 年初之前擁有設備 - 您將確保您能在時間？

For long lead time, I tend to (indiscernible) to scanners.

對於較長的交貨時間，我傾向於（音訊不清晰）掃描器。

You cannot do much for the rest of the year.

今年剩下的時間你不能做太多事情。

And as I mentioned earlier, pretty much all orders have been placed last year.

正如我之前提到的，幾乎所有訂單都是去年下的。

Okay.

好的。

But to ensure equipment delivery or on-time equipment delivery, would you foresee a scenario where you would step up your ordering by mid this year so you would have the equipment delivered on time early next year?

但為了確保設備交付或按時交付設備，您是否會預見到今年年中之前加大訂購力度，以便明年初設備按時交付？

That is possible.

這是可能的。

As I mentioned earlier, again, we are looking at the demand on a monthly basis and we can increase our CAPEX if it was needed.

正如我之前提到的，我們每個月都會關注需求，如果需要，我們可以增加資本支出。

One final question.

最後一個問題。

Generally speaking, (technical difficulty) political issue, what is your number one concern?

一般來說，（技術難度）政治問題，你最關心的是什麼？

What is the downside to the scenario or to the picture that you have painted here?

您在這裡描繪的場景或圖片有什麼缺點？

You seem to be cautiously optimistic.

看來你持謹慎樂觀的態度。

What could go wrong here?

這裡可能會出現什麼問題？

Well, equipment delivery I think is probably the only item.

好吧，我認為設備交付可能是唯一的項目。

And would it be fair to say that you're pretty confident with your incoming orders?

可以公平地說，您對收到的訂單非常有信心嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Nitin Bambani of J.P. Morgan.

摩根大通的尼廷班巴尼 (Nitin Bambani)。

Could you talk about what you obtained with limiting (ph) utilization was in the first quarter and what do you expect for the next two quarters?

您能否談談您在第一季限制（ph）利用率方面獲得的成果以及您對未來兩季的預期？

Utilization was 100 percent in Q1 and we expect it to be the same in Q2.

第一季的利用率為 100%，我們預期第二季的利用率也將相同。

For 300 (technical difficulty)

300分（技術難度）

Yes, it will be fully utilized.

是的，它將被充分利用。

Okay, how would you say revenues are coming from 300 millimeter right now?

好吧，你怎麼說現在的收入來自 300 毫米呢？

And if you could also provide some sort of mix in terms of how you are doing more 0.13 or more 0.15, that would be helpful.

如果您還可以提供某種關於如何做到更多 0.13 或更多 0.15 的組合，那將會很有幫助。

Right now I think is about maybe 8 percent from 12 inch.

現在我認為 12 英寸的價格大約是 8%。

And your second question is regarding 0.13 micron contribution, overall it's about 12 percent.

你的第二個問題是關於0.13微米的貢獻，整體來說大約是12%。

Within 300 millimeter are you doing more 0.15 or 0.13?

300毫米以內你做0.15多還是0.13多？

We're doing both actually.

實際上我們兩者都在做。

We have aluminum capacity in our 12-inch as well as copper, so we are providing both.

我們的 12 吋產品有鋁產能，也有銅產能，因此我們兩者都提供。

Great, and in the second quarter what do you expect to be revenue for 300 millimeter?

太好了，您預計 300 毫米第二季的收入是多少？

It will probably be 10 percent plus.

可能會增加百分之十以上。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Mark FitzGerald of Banc of America.

美國銀行的馬克·菲茨杰拉德。

Just a quick question on the tax rate.

只是一個關於稅率的簡單問題。

How should we think about your tax rate going forward and what is a normalized tax rate?

我們應該如何考慮您未來的稅率以及什麼是標準化稅率？

I think this year we do need to pay any income tax.

我認為今年我們確實需要繳所得稅。

Okay, but if you didn't have these tax loss carryforwards, what would be a more normalized tax rate if we were to model that in the outer years?

好的，但是如果您沒有這些稅務損失結轉，如果我們要在外部年份進行建模，那麼更正常化的稅率是多少？

This is one of the most complicated issues in Taiwan for the tax charges (ph) versus tax expenses.

這是台灣稅費（ph）與稅費支出之間最複雜的問題之一。

Corporate tax, for us we have to pay 25 percent.

公司稅，對我們來說我們必須繳25%。

In (technical difficulty) used to be 20 percent for a cap.

In（技術難度）過去的上限是 20%。

However we invest, a portion of that can be used as tax credit to again the future tax expenses.

無論我們如何投資，其中一部分都可以用作稅收抵免，以彌補未來的稅收支出。

A Company has the leeway to pull in the tax credit if you want, to a certain degree.

如果您願意，公司在一定程度上有獲得稅收抵免的空間。

So there is really no simple answer for that.

所以這個問題確實沒有簡單的答案。

But a maximum 25 percent, is that fair?

但最多 25%，公平嗎？

Yes, maximum is 25 percent.

是的，最多為 25%。

Theoretical maximum.

理論最大值。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Bhavin Shah of J.P. Morgan.

摩根大通 (J.P. Morgan) 的巴文‧沙阿 (Bhavin Shah)。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Could you tell us what the depreciation included in cost of goods sold will be in the second quarter and the fact (ph) it was down in third quarter once you're starting to (indiscernible) sales.

您能否告訴我們第二季銷售成本中包含的折舊是多少，以及一旦您開始（難以辨別）銷售，第三季折舊就會下降。

So maybe if you have some sense of what it could be in third quarter.

所以也許如果你對第三季的情況有所了解的話。

Overall, depreciation will be slightly lower compared to that in Q1, but the full year we can give you a rough guidance which is about 10 percent more than that of last year, including the depreciation from (indiscernible).

整體來說，折舊會比第一季稍微低一些，但是全年我們可以給你一個粗略的指導，比去年高出10%左右，包括（聽不清楚）的折舊。

Okay, and apart from depreciation, do you see anything abnormal happening in second quarter?

好的，除了貶值之外，您認為第二季有什麼異常情況發生嗎？

In other words, can we expect pretty strong operating leverage in second quarter, given 15 percent revenue increase, or more?

換句話說，考慮到營收成長 15% 或更多，我們能否預期第二季的營運槓桿相當強勁？

The typical semiconductor high-leverage nature of profitability should factor in to second quarter.

典型的半導體高槓桿獲利能力應該會影響到第二季。

However, we probably will have about 2 percent of the revenue coming from outsource to assist in UMCi, which has much lower profit margin compared to our own business.

然而，我們可能會有大約2%的收入來自外包來協助UMCi，與我們自己的業務相比，UMCi的利潤率要低得多。

So there will be some minor impact on there.

所以對那裡會有一些輕微的影響。

NT dollar appreciation will be another factor which is beyond our control.

新台幣升值將是另一個我們無法控制的因素。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Kevin Vassily of Susquehanna Financial Group.

薩斯奎哈納金融集團的凱文·瓦西里。

A couple questions.

有幾個問題。

First one would be just a clarification on how you are calculating quarterly capacity.

第一個只是澄清如何計算季度產能。

Is the number that you give what you have in place to start the quarter, or is that a weighted average of the wafer capacity through the quarter, or is it quarter-ending number?

您給出的數字是本季開始時所擁有的數字，還是整個季度晶圓產能的加權平均值，還是季末的數字？

How do you calculate that?

你是怎麼計算的？

That is the wafer output.

這就是晶圓產量。

Wafer output at the start of the quarter?

季初晶圓產量？

For the whole quarter.

整個季度。

For the whole quarter.

整個季度。

So finishing the quarter, that is what you would expect to be able to output?

那麼本季結束時，您期望能夠產出什麼？

That is correct, and since we have fabs (ph) extending.

這是正確的，因為我們有晶圓廠 (ph) 正在擴展。

Therefore, you can consider that it's kind of a ramp-up situation.

因此，您可以認為這是一種加速情況。

Okay, that's helpful.

好的，這很有幫助。

Second question, back to some earlier questions and comments about second half of the year.

第二個問題，回到之前關於下半年的一些問題和評論。

When I kind of look at your revenue numbers for Q1 and the forecast for Q2, it appears that business for you is better than what would be typical or normal on a seasonal basis, particularly if you look at it compared with the overall semiconductor industry.

當我查看你們第一季的收入數據和第二季度的預測時，你們的業務似乎比季節性的典型或正常情況要好，特別是如果你將其與整個半導體行業進行比較的話。

What gives you the confidence that the second half of the year at this point will be better than the first half of the year if you buy into the premise that the first half looks seasonally better?

如果您相信上半年看起來季節性更好，那麼是什麼讓您有信心今年下半年會比上半年更好？

Again, this is based on the capacity that is available.

同樣，這基於可用的容量。

If the market stays strong today, then we will be able to fully utilize the capacity that will be available.

如果今天市場保持強勁，那麼我們將能夠充分利用可用的產能。

So it is based on a continuation of what you are seeing in terms of demand trends now, and being able to respond to that demand capacity?

那麼它是基於您現在所看到的需求趨勢的延續，以及能夠對這種需求能力做出反應的嗎？

Yes, that is correct.

對，那是正確的。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Lehman Brothers, C.J. Muse.

雷曼兄弟、C.J.繆斯。

Good evening.

晚安.

Given the leadtimes extending for scanners and the limited 300 millimeter expansion for you in '04, what are your initial thoughts for CAPEX plans in '05, including what your thoughts are for incremental 300 millimeter adds in that timeframe?

鑑於掃描器的交貨時間延長以及 04 年您的 300 毫米擴展有限，您對 05 年資本支出計劃的初步想法是什麼，包括您對在該時間範圍內增量增加 300 毫米的想法是什麼？

As I mentioned earlier, we are guiding the demand situation on a monthly basis, and any CAPEX decision that we make now will not help this year and will help next year.

正如我之前提到的，我們正在每月指導需求情況，我們現在做出的任何資本支出決定今年不會有幫助，但明年會有幫助。

So it is somewhat difficult to give you a CAPEX forecast for 2005.

因此，給您 2005 年的資本支出預測有些困難。

Are you participating in some of these option programs so you could reduce the leadtimes for scanners?

您是否參加了其中一些選項計劃，以便縮短掃描器的交貨時間？

Yes, we would like to, yes.

是的，我們願意，是的。

We will evaluate those plans.

我們將評估這些計劃。

So if you're participating in that, when is this drop-dead deadline for you to place equipment orders for scanners for your '05 plans?

那麼，如果您參與其中，那麼您為 '05 計劃訂購掃描器設備的截止日期是什麼時候？

There is no drop-dead date, as far as I understand.

據我了解，沒有確切的截止日期。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

A follow-up from Dan Heyler of Merrill Lynch.

美林證券的丹海勒 (Dan Heyler) 的後續行動。

Thanks.

謝謝。

I remembered you guys previously had talked about allocating capacity and some of the criteria that you went through in deciding who you want to allocate capacity to, and pricing was one of the most important.

我記得你們之前討論過分配容量以及在決定向誰分配容量時所遵循的一些標準，而定價是最重要的標準之一。

Is that still the case, that highest pricing basically tends to be the preferred customer?

情況仍然如此嗎，最高定價基本上往往是首選客戶？

Actually, there is more than one criteria.

事實上，標準不只一個。

I would say that we look at the applications.

我想說我們會看應用程式。

We like to work with the market leaders, so volume and products competitiveness are important, and the strategic relationship obviously important, and how about price.

我們喜歡與市場領導者合作，因此數量和產品競爭力很重要，戰略關係顯然也很重要，那麼價格又如何呢？

The diversification of the (indiscernible) products and customers?

（聽不清楚）產品和客戶的多樣化？

That is correct.

那是對的。

What I was wondering is, do you had any formal programs in place to essentially motivate customers to migrate forward on their geometry nodes?

我想知道的是，你們是否有任何正式的計劃來從根本上激勵客戶在他們的幾何節點上向前遷移？

For instance, potentially higher prices at some of the more mainstream technologies that would make obviously migration more economically advisable?

例如，一些更主流的技術的價格可能會更高，這顯然會使遷移在經濟上更明智？

I think the migration to more advanced deposit technology in itself usually offers the incentive for customers.

我認為遷移到更先進的存款技術本身通常會為客戶帶來激勵。

And so when customers fail to (indiscernible) the complexity of their design has reached to a critical point for them to migrate to higher in the technology, then they would normally do that.

因此，當客戶未能（難以辨別）其設計的複雜性已達到他們遷移到更高技術的臨界點時，他們通常會這樣做。

There is one strong incentive on UMC side.

聯華電子方面有一個強而有力的激勵措施。

That is our investment in advanced deposit technology capacity, and there will be more available moving forward.

這是我們對先進存款技術能力的投資，未來將有更多可用的投資。

So it is fair to say that availability of capacity on the leading-edge, is that driving people to migrate a little bit faster then they would have otherwise?

因此，可以公平地說，領先的容量可用性是否會促使人們比其他情況更快地遷移？

If their product is suitable for migration.

他們的產品是否適合遷移。

Right.

正確的。

Okay, thanks.

好的謝謝。

Shailesh Jaitly of Nomura.

野村證券的 Shailesh Jaitly。

Can you repeat the (indiscernible) revenue from 300 mm for this quarter?

您能否重複本季 300 mm 的（聽不清楚）營收？

About 8 percent for Q1.

第一季約為 8%。

And for Q2, you are looking at 10 percent?

對於第二季度，您的目標是 10%？

More than 10 percent, yes.

超過百分之十，是的。

Given that your 300 mm capacity you're going to have a significant ramp in the second half, what kind of moderating factors are there for the customers to migrate to this?

鑑於您的 300 毫米產能將在下半年大幅成長，有哪些調節因素可以讓客戶遷移到此？

In other words, what kind of cost advantages customers derive?

換句話說，客戶可以獲得什麼樣的成本優勢？

I know theoretically that 30 percent, but based on what you are seeing currently, what is the cost differential for the similar product with similar nodes?

我知道理論上是 30%，但是根據您目前所看到的情況，具有相似節點的相似產品的成本差異是多少？

Yes, I think we talked about this in the past, that there is an increasing advantage of 12-inch over 8-inch, and that has also been clearly understood in the industry.

是的，我想我們過去也談過，12英寸相對8英寸的優勢越來越大，業界也清楚地認識到這一點。

There is -- the 12-inch over 8-inch area ratio is about 2.25, both consider the yield, and the die cost ratio could be between 2.3 to 2.7 in favor of a larger die.

12 吋與 8 吋的面積比約為 2.25，兩者都考慮良率，且晶片成本比可能在 2.3 至 2.7 之間，有利於更大的晶片。

So customers can do a calculation very quickly, consider the same technology node and design.

因此客戶可以非常快速地進行計算，考慮相同的技術節點和設計。

But that is a theoretical advantage once you hit the optimum yield.

但一旦達到最佳產量，這就是理論上的優勢。

Given that you're still in very early stages, what are the kind of cost advantages you're able to offer now (technical difficulty) migrate?

鑑於您仍處於非常早期的階段，您現在能夠提供哪些成本優勢（技術難度）遷移？

Actually for 0.13 micron that we are moving toward to the high end, to the optimum yield very quickly.

實際上，對於 0.13 微米，我們正在快速向高端邁進，以達到最佳良率。

Okay.

好的。

In your communications segment, the (indiscernible) version, what proportion is handset-related chips?

在你們的通訊領域，（聽不清楚）版本中，手機相關晶片所佔的比例是多少？

About two-thirds are from wireless.

大約三分之二來自無線。

Two-thirds.

三分之二。

And is any of your handset-related customers more than 10 percent of your business right now?

目前您的手機相關客戶是否佔您業務的 10% 以上？

No.

不。

Okay, and from within the handset space, what kind of order visibility are you seeing right now?

好的，從手機領域來看，您現在看到什麼樣的訂單可見度？

Order visibility, I think three months the typical (indiscernible).

訂單可見度，我認為是三個月的典型（難以辨別）。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Operator, we probably have time for one last question.

接線員，我們可能有時間回答最後一個問題。

Mehdi Hosseini FBR.

邁赫迪·侯賽尼 FBR。

Just a quick follow-up.

只是快速跟進。

Regarding your wafer supply, are you seeing any shortages, or if you could just elaborate on that front?

關於您的晶圓供應，您是否發現任何短缺，或者您能否詳細說明一下這方面的情況？

Wafer supply shortage?

晶圓供應短缺？

No, we haven't seen any.

不，我們還沒有看到。

You are referring to the raw wafers, right?

你指的是原始晶圓，對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

We have secured the supply.

我們已經保證了供應。

For both 200 and 300 millimeter?

200 毫米和 300 毫米都適用嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Gentlemen, we'll turn the conference back over to you for any additional or closing remarks.

先生們，我們將把會議轉回給你們，讓你們發表任何補充或結束語。

Thanks, everyone, for attending again.

謝謝大家再次參加。

It looks like we will have a good quarter in Q2 and a pretty good year overall, and we will meet with you next quarter.

看來我們第二季度將有一個不錯的季度，總體來說也將是一個不錯的一年，我們將在下個季度與您見面。

Thank you, gentlemen.

謝謝你們，先生們。

That does conclude today's conference.

今天的會議到此結束。

We do thank you for your participation.

我們非常感謝您的參與。