台積電 ADR (TSM) 2021 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(foreign language) Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to TSMC's Third Quarter 2021 Earnings Conference Call.

（外語）大家下午好，歡迎來到台積電2021年第三季度財報電話會議。

This is Jeff Su, TSMC's Director of Investor Relations and your host for today.

我是台積電投資者關係總監、今天的主持人 Jeff Su。

To prevent the spread of COVID-19, TSMC is hosting our earnings conference call via live audio webcast through the company's website at www.tsmc.com, where you can also download the earnings release materials.

為防止 COVID-19 的傳播，台積電將通過公司網站 www.tsmc.com 通過現場音頻網絡直播主持我們的收益電話會議，您還可以在該網站下載收益發布材料。

If you are joining us through the conference call, your dial-in lines are in listen-only mode.

如果您通過電話會議加入我們，您的撥入線路處於只聽模式。

The format for today's event will be as follows: first, TSMC's Vice President and CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, will summarize our operations in the third quarter 2021 followed by our guidance for the fourth quarter 2021.

今天活動的形式如下：首先，台積電副總裁兼首席財務官黃文德先生將總結我們在 2021 年第三季度的運營情況，然後是我們對 2021 年第四季度的指導。

Afterwards, Mr. Huang and TSMC's CEO, Dr. C.C. Wei, will jointly provide the company's key messages, then we will open the line for Q&A.

隨後，黃先生與台積電總裁C.C. Wei，將共同提供公司的關鍵信息，然後我們將開通問答線路。

As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements.

像往常一樣，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到重大風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中包含的結果存在重大差異。

Please refer to the safe harbor notice that appears on our press release.

請參閱我們新聞稿中的安全港通知。

And now I would like to turn the call over to TSMC's CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, for the summary of operations and the current quarter guidance.

現在我想把電話轉給台積電的首席財務官黃文德先生，以獲取運營摘要和當前季度的指導。

Thank you, Jeff.

謝謝你，傑夫。

Third quarter revenue increased 11.4% sequentially in NT terms or 12% in dollar terms.

第三季度收入按新台幣計算環比增長 11.4%，按美元計算增長 12%。

Our third quarter business was driven by strong demand across all 4 growth platforms, which are smartphone, HPC, IoT and automotive-related applications.

我們第三季度的業務受到所有 4 個增長平台（即智能手機、HPC、物聯網和汽車相關應用程序）的強勁需求的推動。

Gross margin increased 1.3 percentage points sequentially to 51.3%, mainly due to the improvement in back-end profitability and a more favorable technology mix.

毛利率環比增長 1.3 個百分點至 51.3%，主要是由於後端盈利能力的改善和更有利的技術組合。

Operating margin increased 2.1 percentage points sequentially to 41.2%, mainly due to better operating leverage.

營業利潤率環比增長 2.1 個百分點至 41.2%，主要是由於更好的經營槓桿。

Overall, our third quarter EPS was TWD 6.03 and ROE was 30.7%.

總體而言，我們第三季度每股收益為 6.03 新台幣，ROE 為 30.7%。

Now let's move on to the revenue by technology.

現在讓我們繼續討論技術收入。

5-nanometer process technology contributed 18% of wafer revenue in the third quarter, while 7-nanometer accounted for 34%.

5 納米製程技術在第三季度貢獻了 18% 的晶圓收入，而 7 納米則佔 34%。

Advanced technologies, which are defined as 7-nanometer and below, accounted for 52% of wafer revenue.

定義為 7 納米及以下的先進技術佔晶圓收入的 52%。

Now moving on to revenue contribution by platform.

現在轉向平台的收入貢獻。

Smartphone increased 15% quarter-over-quarter to account for 44% of our third quarter revenue.

智能手機環比增長 15%，占我們第三季度收入的 44%。

HPC increased 9% to account for 37%.

HPC 增長 9%，佔 37%。

IoT increased 23% to account for 9%.

物聯網增長了 23%，佔 9%。

Automotive increased 5% to account for 4%.

汽車增長5%，佔4%。

And DCE decreased 2% to account for 3%.

而大商所下跌2%至3%。

Moving on to the balance sheet.

轉到資產負債表。

We ended the third quarter with cash and marketable securities of TWD 976 billion or equivalent USD 35 billion.

我們在第三季度結束時的現金和有價證券為 9760 億新台幣或等值 350 億美元。

On the liability side, current liabilities increased TWD 8 billion mainly due to the increase of TWD 24 billion in accounts payables and the increase of TWD 6 billion in dividend payable, partially offset by the decrease of TWD 21 billion in short-term loans.

負債方面，流動負債增加80億新台幣，主要是由於應付賬款增加240億新台幣和應付股息增加60億新台幣，部分被短期貸款減少210億新台幣所抵消。

Long-term interest-bearing debt increased by TWD 50 billion mainly as we raised TWD 49 billion corporate bonds during the quarter.

長期有息債務增加了 500 億新台幣，主要是因為我們在本季度籌集了 490 億新台幣的公司債券。

On financial ratios, accounts receivable turnover days decreased 2 days to 40 days while days of inventory remained at 85 days.

財務比率方面，應收賬款周轉天數減少 2 天至 40 天，而存貨天數仍為 85 天。

Now let me make a few comments on cash flow and CapEx.

現在讓我對現金流和資本支出發表一些評論。

During the third quarter, we generated about TWD 319 billion in cash from operations, including some customer prepayments, spent TWD 189 billion in CapEx and distributed TWD 65 billion for fourth quarter '20 cash dividend.

在第三季度，我們從運營中產生了約 3190 億新台幣的現金，包括一些客戶預付款，在資本支出中花費了 1890 億新台幣，並為 20 年第四季度的現金股息分配了 650 億新台幣。

Short-term loans decreased TWD 18 billion, while bonds payable increased by TWD 49 billion.

短期貸款減少180億新台幣，應付債券增加490億新台幣。

Overall, our cash balance increased TWD 106 billion to TWD 854 billion at the end of the quarter.

總體而言，我們的現金餘額在本季度末增加了 1060 億新台幣至 8540 億新台幣。

In U.S. dollar terms, our third quarter capital expenditures totaled USD 6.77 billion.

以美元計算，我們第三季度的資本支出總額為 67.7 億美元。

I've finished my financial summary.

我已經完成了我的財務摘要。

Now let's turn on to our fourth quarter guidance.

現在讓我們開始第四季度的指導。

Based on the current business outlook, we expect our fourth quarter revenue to be between USD 15.4 billion and USD 15.7 billion, which represents a 4.5% sequential increase at the midpoint.

根據目前的業務前景，我們預計第四季度收入將在 154 億美元至 157 億美元之間，中點環比增長 4.5%。

Based on the exchange rate assumption of USD 1 to TWD 28, gross margin is expected to be between 51% and 53%, operating margin between 39% and 41%.

基於1美元兌28新台幣的匯率假設，毛利率預計在51%至53%之間，營業利潤率在39%至41%之間。

On July 12, we announced we have completed the purchase of 5 million doses of vaccine as part of our efforts to help fight against COVID-19 pandemic in Taiwan.

7 月 12 日，我們宣布已完成 500 萬劑疫苗的採購，以幫助台灣抗擊 COVID-19 大流行。

We recognized a small portion of the vaccine donation expense in the third quarter and the majority of it will be recognized in the fourth quarter, which will have around 1 percentage point impact on our operating margin.

我們在第三季度確認了一小部分疫苗捐贈費用，大部分將在第四季度確認，這將對我們的營業利潤率產生約 1 個百分點的影響。

This concludes my financial presentation.

我的財務報告到此結束。

Now let me turn to our key messages.

現在讓我談談我們的關鍵信息。

I will start by making some comments on our 2021 capital budget.

我將首先對我們的 2021 年資本預算發表一些評論。

Every year, our CapEx is spent in anticipation of the growth that will follow in future years.

每年，我們的資本支出都用於預期未來幾年的增長。

We are witnessing a structural increase in underlying semiconductor demand underpinned by the industry megatrends of 5G-related and HPC applications.

在 5G 相關和 HPC 應用的行業大趨勢的支持下，我們正在目睹基礎半導體需求的結構性增長。

In order to support our customers' growth and meet the increasing demand for our advanced and specialty technologies in the next several years, we have budgeted our full year 2021 CapEx to be around USD 30 billion.

為了支持客戶的增長並滿足未來幾年對我們先進和專業技術日益增長的需求，我們將 2021 年全年資本支出預算為約 300 億美元。

Next, let me talk about our profitability.

接下來，讓我談談我們的盈利能力。

Our third quarter gross margin increased 1.3 percentage points sequentially to 51.3% mainly due to better back-end profitability and technology mix.

我們第三季度的毛利率環比增長 1.3 個百分點至 51.3%，主要是由於更好的後端盈利能力和技術組合。

Based on the exchange rate assumption of USD 1 to TWD 28, we have just guided fourth quarter 2021 gross margin to be 52% at the midpoint.

基於 1 美元兌 28 新台幣的匯率假設，我們剛剛指導 2021 年第四季度的毛利率為 52% 的中點。

The midpoint of our fourth quarter gross margin guidance also implies that our full year 2021 gross margin is expected to be higher than 50%, despite the rapidly rising depreciation cost, the dilution from N5 ramp and the unfavorable foreign exchange rate in 2021 as compared to 2020.

我們第四季度毛利率指引的中點還意味著，儘管折舊成本迅速上升、N5 斜坡的稀釋以及 2021 年不利的匯率，但我們 2021 年全年的毛利率預計將高於 50%。 2020 年。

As we have discussed before, 6 factors determine TSMC's profitability: leadership technology development and ramp-up; pricing; cost; capacity utilization; technology mix; and foreign exchange rate, which is not controllable.

正如我們之前所討論的，6 個因素決定了台積電的盈利能力：領先的技術開發和產能提升；價錢;成本;產能利用率；技術組合；和匯率，這是不可控的。

Taking all these factors into consideration, we believe our long-term gross margin of 50% and higher is achievable.

考慮到所有這些因素，我們相信我們可以實現 50% 及更高的長期毛利率。

Now let me turn the microphone over to C.C.

現在讓我把麥克風交給 C.C.

Thank you, Wendell.

謝謝你，溫德爾。

We hope everybody is staying safe and healthy during this time.

我們希望每個人都在這段時間內保持安全和健康。

First, let me start with our near-term demand and inventory.

首先，讓我從我們的近期需求和庫存開始。

We concluded our third quarter with revenue of TWD 414.7 billion or USD 14.9 billion, driven by strong demand across all 4 growth platforms, which are smartphone, HPC, IoT and automotive-related applications.

在智能手機、高性能計算、物聯網和汽車相關應用等所有 4 個增長平台的強勁需求的推動下，我們第三季度的收入為 4147 億新台幣或 149 億美元。

Moving into fourth quarter 2021.

進入 2021 年第四季度。

We expect our sequential growth to be supported by strong demand for our industry-leading 5-nanometer technology.

我們預計，對我們行業領先的 5 納米技術的強勁需求將支持我們的連續增長。

Based on the midpoint of our fourth quarter revenue guidance, our full year 2021 revenue is expected to grow about 24% year-over-year in U.S. dollar terms.

根據我們第四季度收入指導的中點，我們 2021 年全年的收入預計將按美元計算同比增長約 24%。

On the inventory front, we continue to expect our customers and the supply chain to gradually prepare a higher level of inventory in the second half of this year as compared to the historical seasonal level.

在庫存方面，我們繼續預計我們的客戶和供應鏈將在今年下半年逐步準備比歷史季節性水平更高的庫存水平。

Given the industry continuing to ensure supply security, we expect the supply chain to maintain a higher level of inventory for a longer period of time.

鑑於行業繼續確保供應安全，我們預計供應鏈將在較長時間內保持較高的庫存水平。

In the near term, we continue to observe short-term imbalances due to disruptions in the supply chain brought about by COVID-19.

在短期內，我們繼續觀察到由於 COVID-19 導致供應鏈中斷而導致的短期失衡。

We also continue to observe the structural increase in long-term demand, underpinned by the industry megatrends of 5G and HPC-related applications and the higher silicon content in many end devices, including automotive, PCs, servers, networking and smartphones.

我們還繼續觀察到長期需求的結構性增長，這得益於 5G 和 HPC 相關應用的行業大趨勢以及許多終端設備（包括汽車、PC、服務器、網絡和智能手機）中更高的矽含量。

While the short-term imbalances may or may not persist, we believe our technology leadership will enable TSMC to capture the strong demand for our advanced and specialty technologies, and we expect our capacity to remain tight in 2021 and throughout 2022.

雖然短期的失衡可能會或可能不會持續，但我們相信我們的技術領先地位將使台積電能夠捕捉對我們先進和專業技術的強勁需求，我們預計我們的產能將在 2021 年和整個 2022 年保持緊張。

Next, let me talk about TSMC's long-term growth driver and return.

接下來說說台積電的長期增長動力和回報。

We are entering a period of higher structural growth.

我們正在進入一個更高的結構性增長時期。

The multiyear megatrend of 5G and HPC-related applications are expected to fuel a massive requirement for computation power and propel greater need for energy-efficient computing, which demands the use of leading-edge technologies.

5G 和 HPC 相關應用的多年大趨勢預計將推動對計算能力的巨大需求，並推動對節能計算的更大需求，這需要使用前沿技術。

These megatrends will not only spur unit growth but also drive increasing semiconductor content in HPC, smartphone, automotive and IoT applications.

這些大趨勢不僅會刺激單位增長，還會推動高性能計算、智能手機、汽車和物聯網應用中半導體含量的增加。

COVID-19 has also fundamentally accelerated the digital transformation, making semiconductors more pervasive and essential in people's lives.

COVID-19 還從根本上加速了數字化轉型，使半導體在人們的生活中更加普遍和重要。

With our technology leadership, manufacturing excellence and customer trust, TSMC is better positioned to capture the growth from the favorable industry megatrend with our differentiated technologies.

憑藉我們的技術領先地位、卓越的製造能力和客戶的信任，台積電能夠更好地利用我們的差異化技術從有利的行業大趨勢中獲得增長。

To address the structural increase in the long-term market demand profile, TSMC is working closely with our customers to plan our capacity and investing in leading-edge and specialty technologies to support their demand.

為了應對長期市場需求的結構性增長，台積電正與我們的客戶密切合作，規劃我們的產能並投資於領先和專業技術，以支持他們的需求。

Our capital investment decisions are based on 4 disciplines: technology leadership, flexible and responsive manufacturing, retaining customer's trust and earning the proper return.

我們的資本投資決策基於 4 個原則：技術領先、靈活且響應迅速的製造、保持客戶的信任並獲得適當的回報。

At the same time, we face manufacturing cost challenges due to increasing process complexity at leading node, new investment in mature nodes, expansion of our global manufacturing footprint and rising material and basic commodity cost.

同時，由於領先節點的工藝複雜性增加、成熟節點的新投資、全球製造足蹟的擴大以及材料和基本商品成本的上升，我們面臨製造成本挑戰。

As we continue to work closely with our customers to support their growth, our pricing strategy will remain strategic, not opportunistic, to reflect our value creation.

隨著我們繼續與客戶密切合作以支持他們的增長，我們的定價策略將保持戰略性而非機會主義，以反映我們的價值創造。

We will also continue to work diligently with our suppliers to deliver on cost improvement.

我們還將繼續與供應商密切合作，以實現成本改善。

Even as we shoulder a greater burden of the investment for the industry, by taking such actions, we believe we can achieve a proper return that enables us to invest to support our customers' growth and deliver long-term profitable growth with 50% and higher gross margin for our shareholders.

儘管我們為行業承擔了更大的投資負擔，但通過採取這樣的行動，我們相信我們可以獲得適當的回報，使我們能夠投資支持客戶的增長並實現 50% 或更高的長期盈利增長我們股東的毛利率。

Now let me talk about our Japan fab plan.

現在讓我談談我們的日本工廠計劃。

We are expanding our manufacturing footprint to sustain and enhance our competitive advantage in providing industry-leading technologies, the world's largest logic capacity, efficient and cost-effective manufacturing and to better serve our customers.

我們正在擴大我們的製造足跡，以維持和增強我們在提供行業領先技術、世界上最大的邏輯容量、高效和具有成本效益的製造以及更好地為客戶服務方面的競爭優勢。

Our global manufacturing expansion strategy is based on customers' needs, business opportunities, operating efficiency and cost economic considerations.

我們的全球製造擴張戰略基於客戶需求、商機、運營效率和成本經濟考慮。

After conducting due diligence, we announced our intention to build a specialty technology fab in Japan, subject to our Board of Directors' approval.

在進行盡職調查後，我們宣布打算在日本建立一家專業技術工廠，但須經董事會批准。

We have received a strong commitment to support this project from both our customers and the Japanese government.

我們已經從我們的客戶和日本政府那裡得到了支持這個項目的堅定承諾。

This fab will utilize 22-, 28-nanometer technology for semiconductor wafer fabrication.

該工廠將利用 22、28 納米技術進行半導體晶圓製造。

Fab construction is scheduled to begin in 2022 and production is targeted to begin in late 2024.

Fab 建設計劃於 2022 年開始，生產計劃於 2024 年底開始。

Further details will be provided subject to the Board approval.

進一步詳情將在董事會批准後提供。

We believe the expansion of our global manufacturing footprint will enable us to better serve our customers' need and reach global talent while earning the proper return from our investments and deliver long-term profitable growth for our shareholders.

我們相信，我們全球製造業務的擴張將使我們能夠更好地滿足客戶的需求並吸引全球人才，同時從我們的投資中獲得適當的回報，並為我們的股東帶來長期的盈利增長。

Finally, I'll talk about the N3 and N3E status.

最後說一下N3和N3E的狀態。

Our N3 technology will use FinFET transistor structure to deliver the best technology maturity, performance and cost for our customers.

我們的 N3 技術將使用 FinFET 晶體管結構，為我們的客戶提供最佳的技術成熟度、性能和成本。

Our N3 technology development is on track.

我們的 N3 技術開發正步入正軌。

We have developed complete platform support for both HPC and smartphone applications.

我們為 HPC 和智能手機應用程序開發了完整的平台支持。

N3 risk production is scheduled in 2021, and production will start in second half of 2022.

N3風險生產計劃於2021年進行，2022年下半年開始生產。

We continue to see a high level of customer engagement at N3 and expect more new tapeouts for N3 for the first year as compared with N5.

我們繼續看到 N3 的客戶參與度很高，並預計與 N5 相比，第一年 N3 的新流片會更多。

We also introduced N3E as an extension of our N3 family.

我們還引入了 N3E 作為 N3 系列的擴展。

N3E will feature improved manufacturing process window with better performance, power and yield.

N3E 將具有改進的製造工藝窗口，具有更好的性能、功率和良率。

Volume production of N3E is scheduled for 1 year after N3.

N3E 的量產計劃在 N3 之後 1 年進行。

Our 3-nanometer technology will be the most advanced foundry technology in both PPA and transistor technology when it is introduced.

我們的 3 納米技術在推出時將成為 PPA 和晶體管技術中最先進的代工技術。

With our technology leadership and strong customer demand, we are confident that N3 family will be another long and last -- will be a large and long-lasting node for TSMC.

憑藉我們的技術領先地位和強大的客戶需求，我們有信心 N3 系列將是另一個持久的 - 將成為台積電的一個大型和持久的節點。

This concludes our key message.

我們的關鍵信息到此結束。

Thank you for your attention.

感謝您的關注。

Thank you, C.C. This concludes our prepared statements.

謝謝你，C.C.我們準備好的陳述到此結束。

(Operator Instructions) Should you wish to raise your question in Chinese, I will translate it to English before our management answers your question.

（操作員說明）如果您想用中文提出您的問題，我會在我們的管理層回答您的問題之前將其翻譯成英文。

(Operator Instructions) Now let's begin the Q&A session.

（操作員說明）現在讓我們開始問答環節。

Operator, please proceed with the first caller on the line.

接線員，請繼續與線路上的第一個呼叫者聯繫。

The first one to ask questions, Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

第一個提問的人是摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

Congrats on the good results.

恭喜取得好成績。

My first question is on the long-term road map.

我的第一個問題是關於長期路線圖。

Intel has now unveiled their long-term road map until 2025 with 4 process nodes, looking to catch up with TSMC and potentially even overtake.

英特爾現在公佈了他們到 2025 年的長期路線圖，其中包含 4 個工藝節點，希望趕上台積電，甚至可能超越。

Could TSMC talk a little bit more about its own longer-term road map, timing of adoption of some of the new technologies, like gate-all-around, high-NA EUV, back power line, et cetera?

台積電能否多談談它自己的長期路線圖，採用一些新技術的時機，如環柵、高NA EUV、背電源線等？

And where does TSMC see itself from a process technology leadership perspective in the next 3 to 5 years?

未來 3 到 5 年，台積電從製程技術領先的角度看自己在哪裡？

The N3 message is definitely well received.

N3 消息肯定很受歡迎。

But maybe could we talk a little bit more longer term, given some of your competitors are kind of addressing that kind of time frame as well?

但也許我們可以談得更長遠一些，因為你的一些競爭對手也在處理這種時間框架？

That's my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, Gokul.

謝謝你，戈庫爾。

Please let me summarize your first question.

請讓我總結一下您的第一個問題。

So Gokul's first question is about -- regards to our long-term technology road map.

所以 Gokul 的第一個問題是關於我們的長期技術路線圖。

He notes that an IDM outlined their long-term road map for the next 3 to 5 years and talking about catching up and overtaking.

他指出，一位 IDM 概述了他們未來 3 到 5 年的長期路線圖，並談到了追趕和超車。

So Gokul wants to know what are our views or plans or our road map, I guess, around the timing of new technologies, such as new transistor structure like gate-all-around, high-NA, et cetera.

所以 Gokul 想知道我們的觀點或計劃或我們的路線圖，我猜，圍繞新技術的時間安排，例如新的晶體管結構，如環柵、高 NA 等。

And how do we see our technology leadership positioned in the next 3 to 5 years?

我們如何看待我們在未來 3 到 5 年內的技術領先地位？

Okay.

好的。

Gokul, I don't comment on my competitors' technology road map or their technology approaches.

Gokul，我不評論我的競爭對手的技術路線圖或他們的技術方法。

But for TSMC, we are confident that we'll be very competitive.

但對於台積電，我們有信心我們將非常有競爭力。

And we do have a very competitive schedule.

我們確實有一個非常有競爭力的時間表。

Actually, let me share that in our 3-nanometer technology and the 2-nanometer technology.

實際上，讓我分享一下我們的 3 納米技術和 2 納米技術。

And I can share with you that in our 2-nanometer technology, the density and performance will be the most competitive in 2025.

我可以和大家分享的是，在我們的 2 納米技術中，2025 年密度和性能將是最具競爭力的。

And of course, I can also share with you that the gate-all-around structure is being considered, although I'm not going to -- not ready to release more information about it.

當然，我也可以與您分享正在考慮的門環結構，儘管我不打算 - 不准備發布有關它的更多信息。

So that's, again, let me conclude in 1 sentence we'll become very competitive and we are confident that our technology leadership will be maintained.

因此，讓我再次用一句話總結我們將變得非常有競爭力，並且我們有信心保持我們的技術領先地位。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, C.C. Gokul, do you have a second question?

謝謝你，C.C. Gokul，你還有第二個問題嗎？

Yes.

是的。

So looking at CapEx, I think back in Q1 results, TSMC indicated spending $100 billion-plus in CapEx over the next 3 years.

所以看看資本支出，我認為在第一季度的業績中，台積電錶示未來 3 年在資本支出上的支出超過 1000 億美元。

Since then, you have talked about Japan capacity expansion.

從那時起，您就談到了日本的產能擴張。

It looks like there are some capacity expansion plans for leading-edge in Kaohsiung as well.

看起來高雄也有一些領先的產能擴張計劃。

Could we talk a little bit about is $100 billion going to be enough?

我們能否談談 1000 億美元是否足夠？

Or do you still need to see -- do you still see some upside to this $100 billion budget on the CapEx over the next 3 to 4 years since the growth seems to be stronger?

或者您是否還需要看到——由於增長似乎更強勁，您是否仍然看到未來 3 到 4 年資本支出的 1000 億美元預算有一些上升空間？

And if we see that upside in CapEx, are we still looking at the high end of 10% to 15% growth CAGR?

如果我們看到資本支出的上升空間，我們是否還在關注 10% 到 15% 的複合年增長率的高端？

Or do we believe that there could be faster growth than this 10% to 15% -- or high end of 10% to 15% that we had talked about previously?

或者我們是否相信會有比這 10% 到 15% 更快的增長——或者我們之前談到的 10% 到 15% 的高端？

Okay, Gokul.

好的，高庫爾。

Let me see if I can catch.

讓我看看我能不能抓到。

Your second question is around our CapEx and growth -- longer-term CapEx and growth outlook.

您的第二個問題是關於我們的資本支出和增長——長期資本支出和增長前景。

So Gokul is asking what sort of our plans in Japan and plans for expansion in Taiwan.

所以 Gokul 正在詢問我們在日本的計劃和在台灣的擴張計劃。

Will there be upside to this $100 billion CapEx number that we have talked about in the previous -- for the next few years?

我們之前討論過的這個 1000 億美元的資本支出數字會在未來幾年內上漲嗎？

And then also, will there be a higher long-term growth CAGR target as a result as well?

然後，是否也會因此有更高的長期增長複合年增長率目標？

Okay, Gokul.

好的，高庫爾。

This is Wendell.

這是溫德爾。

Let me answer your question.

讓我回答你的問題。

We are not able to comment specifically on next few years' CapEx.

我們無法具體評論未來幾年的資本支出。

Our capital investment decisions are based on 4 disciplines: technology leadership, flexible and responsive manufacturing, retaining customers' trust and earning the proper return, as C.C. just mentioned.

我們的資本投資決策基於 4 個原則：技術領先、靈活和響應迅速的製造、保持客戶的信任並獲得適當的回報，如 C.C.剛剛提到。

Every year, our CapEx is spent in anticipation of the growth that will follow in future years.

每年，我們的資本支出都用於預期未來幾年的增長。

As we said, we are witnessing a structural increase in underlying semiconductor demand, underpinned by the industry megatrends of 5G-related and HPC applications and increasing silicon content.

正如我們所說，我們目睹了基礎半導體需求的結構性增長，這得益於 5G 相關和 HPC 應用的行業大趨勢以及矽含量的增加。

So as long as our growth outlook looks good, there could be upside to our CapEx plans, and we will continue our disciplined investment approach to support our customers and capture the growth opportunities.

因此，只要我們的增長前景看起來不錯，我們的資本支出計劃就可能有上行空間，我們將繼續採用嚴謹的投資方式來支持我們的客戶並抓住增長機會。

Now in terms of our revenue CAGR, we're not planning to make any changes at this moment.

現在就我們的收入複合年增長率而言，我們目前不打算做出任何改變。

We will provide you with more information in our January conference.

我們將在 1 月份的會議上為您提供更多信息。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, Gokul.

謝謝你，戈庫爾。

Next one to ask questions, Bruce Lu from Goldman Sachs.

下一位提問的是高盛的 Bruce Lu。

I think my first question is that 80% of TSMC's CapEx is focused on advanced node capacity expansion.

我想我的第一個問題是，台積電 80% 的資本支出都集中在先進的節點容量擴展上。

And do you see that the mature node becomes the bottleneck for your customers?

您是否看到成熟節點成為您客戶的瓶頸？

How do you ensure your customer can have enough mature nodes or chips?

您如何確保您的客戶能夠擁有足夠的成熟節點或芯片？

Okay.

好的。

Sorry, Bruce.

對不起，布魯斯。

Let me repeat your question.

讓我重複你的問題。

Question is around the mature nodes and that with 80 -- typically, a majority of our CapEx is for the leading nodes.

問題是關於成熟節點的，有 80 個——通常，我們的大部分資本支出用於領先節點。

So how can we ensure that our customers will not be bottlenecked or have enough on the mature nodes as well?

那麼我們如何確保我們的客戶在成熟節點上不會出現瓶頸或有足夠的資源呢？

Okay.

好的。

Bruce, let me answer that question.

布魯斯，讓我來回答這個問題。

TSMC's strategy at mature nodes is to work closely with our customers, to develop and invest in specialty technology solutions, to meet customers' requirement and create differentiated and long-lasting value to customers.

台積電在成熟節點的策略是與客戶緊密合作，開發和投資專業技術解決方案，滿足客戶需求，為客戶創造差異化和持久的價值。

We take a holistic view and work with our customer to decide the optimal capacity to support their demand.

我們採取整體觀點並與客戶合作，確定支持其需求的最佳容量。

Okay.

好的。

Okay, okay.

好吧好吧。

Does that answer your first question, Bruce?

這能回答你的第一個問題嗎，布魯斯？

Yes.

是的。

Let me try to answer it -- ask a different question.

讓我試著回答一下——問一個不同的問題。

So I think recently, we have a lot of investors asking that there are a lot of noise on the end demand, such as on the TV or China's smartphone.

所以我認為最近，我們有很多投資者詢問終端需求有很多噪音，比如電視或中國的智能手機。

The inventory level is all at a higher level.

庫存水平均處於較高水平。

But the foundry outlook remains very, very positive and almost everyone is raising their capacity and CapEx.

但代工前景仍然非常非常樂觀，幾乎每個人都在提高產能和資本支出。

And can you try to tell the investor what's the discrepancy?

你能試著告訴投資者差異是什麼嗎？

And where is the -- why the foundry can continue to see such a strong demand while the end demand is deteriorating?

而在最終需求惡化的情況下，為什麼鑄造廠可以繼續看到如此強勁的需求？

Okay.

好的。

So Bruce, let me summarize your second question.

那麼布魯斯，讓我總結一下你的第二個問題。

Second question for Bruce is around looking at end demand in the foundry.

Bruce 的第二個問題是關注鑄造廠的最終需求。

Bruce notes that there's a lot of, I guess, noises about different types of end demand, however, the foundry outlook seems to be very positive.

Bruce 指出，我猜有很多關於不同類型最終需求的噪音，但是，代工廠的前景似乎非常樂觀。

So how do we explain this disconnect or discrepancy?

那麼我們如何解釋這種脫節或差異呢？

Okay, Bruce.

好的，布魯斯。

Let me say that while we do not rule out the possibility of an inventory correction, but we expect TSMC's capacity remain very tight in 2021 and throughout 2022.

讓我說，雖然我們不排除庫存調整的可能性，但我們預計台積電的產能在 2021 年和整個 2022 年仍然非常緊張。

This is because of our technology leadership position.

這是因為我們的技術領先地位。

And even there's a correction to occur, we believe it could be less volatile for TSMC than previous downturn as our underlying structural megatrend of 5G-related and HPC applications, and actually the increasing silicon content, in addition to the unit growth, in the end devices will continue.

即使出現修正，我們認為台積電的波動性可能比之前的低迷要小，因為我們的 5G 相關和 HPC 應用的潛在結構性大趨勢，實際上除了單位增長外，矽含量的增加最終設備將繼續。

And again, with our technology leadership, we are better positioned to capture the mid- to long-term growth opportunities.

同樣，憑藉我們的技術領先地位，我們能夠更好地把握中長期增長機會。

I hope that answers your question regarding discrepancy between the demand and why it's still very tight in capacity.

我希望這能回答你關於需求之間的差異以及為什麼它的容量仍然非常緊張的問題。

Thank you, Bruce.

謝謝你，布魯斯。

Next one, Randy Abrams, Credit Suisse.

下一位，Randy Abrams，瑞士信貸。

I wanted to ask, probably for Wendell, a few questions on the margins.

我想問一些邊緣問題，可能是為了溫德爾。

You mentioned 50% and above.

您提到了 50% 及以上。

Just a couple of follow-ups on that.

只是一些後續行動。

Should we think it's still within a couple of points of 50% or with efforts to firm up pricing, you could push it higher?

我們是否應該認為它仍然在 50% 的幾個點以內，或者通過努力提高定價，你可以把它推高嗎？

Just reflecting to maintain return on capital, you will have a higher asset base.

只是反映保持資本回報率，您將擁有更高的資產基礎。

And that's kind of first part of that question.

這是該問題的第一部分。

And then within margin, if you can update us on the inefficiencies you had operating at a high level, if you've worked that out.

然後在保證金範圍內，如果您可以向我們更新您在高水平上運營的低效率，如果您已經解決了這個問題。

And also if you have an initial view on depreciation for 2022.

另外，如果您對 2022 年的折舊有初步看法。

Okay.

好的。

Randy, let me summarize your question.

蘭迪，讓我總結一下你的問題。

So your question is about our margins.

所以你的問題是關於我們的利潤。

So Randy notes that we now say 50% and above.

所以蘭迪指出，我們現在說的是 50% 及以上。

He wants to know, is this a couple of points above?

他想知道，這是不是以上幾點？

How high above?

上面多高？

And will we be able to maintain our, I guess, ROIC or ROE as a result?

結果，我們能否維持我們的，我猜，ROIC 或 ROE？

And also that last time, we had talked about sort of running at a high level of utilization and certain inefficiencies.

上次，我們也談到了在高利用率和某些低效率下運行的問題。

So has that now become more improved?

那麼現在情況變得更好了嗎？

Or what is the outlook there?

或者那裡的前景如何？

And also the depreciation outlook for 2022.

還有2022年的貶值前景。

Okay.

好的。

Let me answer the last question first.

我先回答最後一個問題。

Depreciation in 2022 will increase.

2022年的折舊將增加。

But the magnitude, we are going to tell you next year in January.

但規模，我們將在明年 1 月告訴你。

For the margin, how many percentage points over 50%?

對於利潤率，超過 50% 多少個百分點？

We don't want to disclose it right now, but we hope we can tell you more in the January investor conference.

我們現在不想透露，但我們希望我們能在 1 月份的投資者大會上告訴您更多信息。

And that will, of course, bring a better ROE than before due to the higher margin targets.

當然，由於利潤率目標更高，這將帶來比以前更好的 ROE。

You also asked about utilization?

你還問了利用率？

Randy also asking about inefficiencies.

蘭迪還詢問了效率低下的問題。

When we had talked previously about when we run at a high level of utilization, less-efficient cost improvement and things like that, so Randy is wondering, is this -- is it continuing?

當我們之前談到我們何時以高利用率運行時，效率較低的成本改進以及類似的事情，所以蘭迪想知道，這是 - 繼續嗎？

Is it...

是嗎...

The utilization continues to be pretty high.

利用率仍然很高。

At the same time, the cost improvement activities is ongoing.

與此同時，成本改善活動正在進行中。

As a matter of fact, in the fourth quarter, we believe the margin will be better, partially because of the cost improvement activities.

事實上，在第四季度，我們相信利潤率會更好，部分原因是成本改善活動。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

Then second question I'll ask.

然後我會問第二個問題。

And just one quick follow-up.

只需快速跟進。

Actually, related to utilization 50% and above.

實際上，與利用率50％及以上有關。

If you have a utilization view, is that a 90% or is that full capacity?

如果您有利用率視圖，那是 90% 還是全部容量？

And then the second question I have is on the capital intensity.

然後我的第二個問題是關於資本密集度。

One of the equipment suppliers, Tokyo Electron, they put up a slide about a moderating increase in capital intensity.

設備供應商之一的東京電子（Tokyo Electron）發布了一張關於資本密集度適度增加的幻燈片。

So CapEx per K. They have it like 2-nanometer just rising gradually to 210 million per 1,000 wafers.

所以每 K 的資本支出。他們有它就像 2 納米一樣，逐漸上升到每 1,000 個晶圓 2.1 億個。

Could you discuss, if you can, a CapEx per K either absolute or how you see that trending?

如果可以的話，您能否討論一下每 K 的絕對資本支出或您如何看待這種趨勢？

And do you see that continuing to accelerate up or actions you're taking to keep it more stable after the increase we've seen in the past few years?

在過去幾年我們看到的增長之後，您是否看到繼續加速或您正在採取行動使其更加穩定？

Okay.

好的。

So Randy's second question is about capital intensity.

所以蘭迪的第二個問題是關於資本密集度的。

He notes that Tokyo Electron is showing that the capital intensity or the CapEx per K is moderating the pace of increase, particularly as you get into 2-nanometer.

他指出，Tokyo Electron 表明資本密集度或每 K 的資本支出正在減緩增長的步伐，尤其是當您進入 2 納米時。

So he was wondering if we can just comment on our CapEx per K.

所以他想知道我們是否可以對我們的每 K 資本支出發表評論。

Well, Randy, I -- what I can share with you is that CapEx per K for advanced -- more and more advanced technology is normally higher.

好吧，蘭迪，我——我可以和你分享的是，先進技術的每 K 資本支出——越來越先進的技術通常會更高。

That's for sure.

這是肯定的。

So -- but at the same time, through selling our values and working with the customers and the suppliers, we believe we are able to still earn a proper return, which is, at this moment, a 50% and higher gross margin is achievable.

所以——但與此同時，通過推銷我們的價值並與客戶和供應商合作，我們相信我們仍然能夠獲得適當的回報，即目前可以實現 50% 甚至更高的毛利率.

Okay, Randy?

好的，蘭迪？

Thank you, Randy.

謝謝你，蘭迪。

Next one to ask questions, Brett Simpson from Arete Research.

下一位要提問的是來自 Arete Research 的 Brett Simpson。

Yes.

是的。

My question was on the N3 introduction next year.

我的問題是關於明年 N3 的介紹。

Can you talk a bit about the ramp-up of N3?

你能談談 N3 的升級嗎？

Is it going to be a typical ramp very similar to the last couple of node ramps?

它會是一個與最後幾個節點斜坡非常相似的典型斜坡嗎？

Or do you see the timing of this being different?

或者你認為這有什麼不同？

And also, just in terms of the cost, there's a lot of talk about cost rising above expectations for N3 as you add more EUV layers.

而且，就成本而言，隨著您添加更多 EUV 層，有很多關於 N3 成本上升超過預期的討論。

Can you just clarify how you see costs at N3 and whether you can still achieve a 70% density gain at that node?

您能否澄清一下您如何看待 N3 的成本，以及您是否仍然可以在該節點上實現 70% 的密度增益？

Okay, Brett.

好的，布雷特。

So let me see.

所以讓我看看。

Your first question is around N3.

你的第一個問題是關於 N3 的。

Brett wants to know with N3 ramping in the second half of next year, what type of ramp do we expect versus the prior nodes?

Brett 想知道明年下半年 N3 的斜坡，與之前的節點相比，我們期望什麼樣的斜坡？

Will it be typical?

會不會很典型？

Or will the timing be different?

還是時間會不一樣？

And also on the N3 cost, what does the N3 cost structure look like?

還有關於 N3 成本，N3 成本結構是什麼樣的？

Is that your question, Brett?

這是你的問題嗎，布雷特？

That's right.

這是正確的。

Okay.

好的。

Brett, this is C.C. Wei.

布雷特，這是 C.C.魏。

Let me answer your second part of the question first.

讓我先回答你問題的第二部分。

N3 is of course -- definitely it is higher than N5.

N3 當然是——絕對高於 N5。

That is because of technology complexity and we have to use many new equipment, which is -- cost higher.

那是因為技術複雜，我們必須使用許多新設備，這就是——成本更高。

But then, the ramp-up is very similar to the previous node.

但是，加速與前一個節點非常相似。

With many customers' engagement, actually, it's higher than what we observed in the previous node.

實際上，隨著許多客戶的參與，它比我們在之前的節點中觀察到的要高。

So second half of 2022 will be our mass production, but you can expect that revenue will be seen in first quarter of 2023 because it takes long -- it takes cycle time to have all those wafer out.

因此，2022 年下半年將是我們的量產時間，但您可以預期收入將在 2023 年第一季度出現，因為這需要很長時間——所有這些晶圓都需要周期時間。

Okay.

好的。

So basically, on 3-nanometer, this won't be -- typically, you'd see your first revenue Q2 or Q3.

所以基本上，在 3 納米上，這不會——通常，你會看到你的第一個收入 Q2 或 Q3。

It's going to be later of next year, is that right?

明年晚些時候，對嗎？

That's right.

這是正確的。

Yes, Brett.

是的，布雷特。

I think we have been consistently saying that N3 will begin the production in second half 2022.

我想我們一直在說 N3 將在 2022 年下半年開始生產。

That has been a consistent message since we first introduced N3 in 2019.

自從我們在 2019 年首次推出 N3 以來，這一直是一個一致的信息。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

And maybe just a follow-up on 28-nanometer.

也許只是對 28 納米的跟進。

You just talked about a new fab that's coming on stream in 2024 in Japan.

您剛剛談到了將於 2024 年在日本投產的新晶圓廠。

And can you maybe just clarify the latest thinking in terms of Europe?

您能否澄清一下歐洲方面的最新想法？

Because I don't know that we could -- we may see new fab expansion for TSMC.

因為我不知道我們可以——我們可能會看到台積電的新晶圓廠擴建。

And then in terms of looking at the 28-nanometer node, there's a lot of capacity being expanded at the moment.

然後就 28 納米節點而言，目前有很多容量正在擴展。

Can you talk about what's driving this?

你能談談是什麼推動了這一切嗎？

And why you think this will not lead to an oversupply situation in time?

為什麼您認為這不會及時導致供過於求的局面？

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, Brett.

謝謝你，布雷特。

So Brett's second question is around 28-nanometer.

所以布雷特的第二個問題是28納米左右。

Two parts.

兩部分。

First, of course, that C.C. just announced our intention to build 28-nanometer in Japan.

首先，當然，那個 C.C.剛剛宣布我們打算在日本製造 28 納米。

So Brett wants to know, do we have plans in Europe?

所以布雷特想知道，我們在歐洲有計劃嗎？

And then the second part is that with 28-nanometer, what is driving the longer-term structural demand for 28?

然後第二部分是28納米，是什麼推動了28的長期結構性需求？

Is there a risk of oversupply of 28-nanometer?

28納米是否存在供過於求的風險？

Okay.

好的。

We don't rule out the possibility of building a fab in other areas, that including the Europe.

我們不排除在包括歐洲在內的其他地區建立晶圓廠的可能性。

However, we do emphasize when we build up a new capacity for 28-nanometer, it's almost all to serve the specialty technologies, for some of the specialty technology that is not offered by our competitor.

但是，我們確實強調，當我們建立 28 納米的新產能時，它幾乎都是為專業技術服務的，因為我們的競爭對手沒有提供一些專業技術。

And TSMC is working with our customers to meet their demand.

台積電正在與我們的客戶合作以滿足他們的需求。

So is there any possibility of oversupply?

那麼有沒有供過於求的可能呢？

Not for TSMC, okay?

不是台積電，好嗎？

That's all I can let you know.

這就是我能告訴你的全部。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, Brett.

謝謝你，布雷特。

Next one to ask questions, Roland Shu Citigroup.

下一位要提問的，是羅蘭舒花旗。

So my first question is, you have a global manufacturing expansion strategy to build more fab overseas going forward.

所以我的第一個問題是，你們有一個全球製造擴張戰略，可以在海外建立更多的晶圓廠。

Like you said, you also don't exclude the possibility to build a fab in Europe.

就像你說的，你也不排除在歐洲建廠的可能性。

So my question is, is a joint venture with a local government or key customers an option for you to build this new fab overseas?

所以我的問題是，您是否可以選擇與當地政府或主要客戶合資在海外建造這個新工廠？

Or you prefer to build a fab 100% owned, like what you build for those fabs in China or U.S. that you are building now?

或者你更喜歡建造一個 100% 擁有的晶圓廠，就像你為那些你現在正在建造的中國或美國的晶圓廠建造的那樣？

Okay.

好的。

Roland, your first question is about our overseas fabs.

Roland，你的第一個問題是關於我們的海外晶圓廠。

Roland wants to know, as we expand overseas, will we consider joint ventures with local governments or our key customers?

Roland 想知道，隨著我們向海外擴張，我們會考慮與當地政府或我們的主要客戶建立合資企業嗎？

Or will we continue to -- or will it be 100% owned, like what we have done in China and in the U.S.?

或者我們會繼續——還是100%擁有它，就像我們在中國和美國所做的那樣？

Okay, Roland, let me answer these questions first.

好的，羅蘭，我先回答這些問題。

Normally, as you mentioned, our overseas fabs, we normally own 100%.

通常，正如您提到的，我們的海外晶圓廠通常擁有 100% 的股權。

We do not consider a JV with government.

我們不考慮與政府建立合資企業。

However, JV with other companies or key customers can be considered on a case-by-case basis.

但是，可以根據具體情況考慮與其他公司或主要客戶建立合資企業。

Okay.

好的。

Yes.

是的。

My second question is on your -- now you've set a short term goal of a zero emission growth by 2025, but you have to continue to invest in 5-nanometer, 3-nanometer or even 2-nanometer before 2025.

我的第二個問題是關於你的——現在你已經設定了到 2025 年實現零排放增長的短期目標，但你必須在 2025 年之前繼續投資 5 納米、3 納米甚至 2 納米。

So how are you going to achieve this zero emission growth target and also, in the meantime, keep up with your expansion plan?

那麼，您將如何實現這一零排放增長目標，同時又如何跟上您的擴張計劃呢？

So these right now, these are aggressive zero emission growth plan to decelerate your investment plans to meet your target.

所以這些現在，這些是積極的零排放增長計劃，以減緩您的投資計劃以實現您的目標。

Okay, Roland.

好的，羅蘭。

Roland's second question is asking that our commitment recently announced to zero emissions growth by 2025.

Roland 的第二個問題是，我們最近宣布了到 2025 年實現零排放增長的承諾。

But as we continue to invest and expand on N5 and N3, how will we be able to achieve this target?

但隨著我們繼續在 N5 和 N3 上進行投資和擴展，我們將如何實現這一目標？

Okay.

好的。

Roland, it's actually a net zero in 2050, not zero emission in 2025.

羅蘭，它實際上是 2050 年的淨零排放，而不是 2025 年的零排放。

We are going to do this first by working ourselves to save -- to become more energy-efficient because a lot of the carbon emission comes from the electricity.

我們將首先通過努力節約來做到這一點——變得更加節能，因為很多碳排放來自電力。

Our production, we can try to minimize the carbon emission.

我們的生產，我們可以盡量減少碳排放。

And secondly, we are going to use more green energy, which is the -- which will emit the most part of the carbon.

其次，我們將使用更多的綠色能源，這將排放大部分碳。

And for whatever is left, it will depend on carbon trading, the carbon rights in the future.

至於剩下什麼，將取決於碳交易，未來的碳權。

So that's the basic framework of achieving this net zero in 2050.

這就是在 2050 年實現淨零的基本框架。

No.

不。

Actually, I'm talking about zero emission growth.

實際上，我說的是零排放增長。

So you have this near-term target, zero emission growth by 2025.

所以你有這個近期目標，到 2025 年實現零排放增長。

So I know there's a difference from this, like in Net Zero in 2050.

所以我知道這有所不同，就像 2050 年的淨零一樣。

Right.

正確的。

Yes.

是的。

The way to achieve those are pretty much the same.

實現這些的方法幾乎相同。

I think when -- sorry.

我想什麼時候——對不起。

Roland, your question is about net zero emissions growth by 2025.

羅蘭，你的問題是關於到 2025 年的淨零排放增長。

And Wendell said, we have net zero emissions by 2050, right?

溫德爾說，到 2050 年我們實現淨零排放，對嗎？

So I think what Wendell was saying is that our -- we will continue to invest in technology, but we have also, as Wendell just said, our own internal efforts, our use of renewable energies, carbon credits and also working with our suppliers and our supply chain on green manufacturing to achieve and deliver on these targets.

所以我認為溫德爾所說的是我們——我們將繼續投資於技術，但正如溫德爾剛才所說，我們也有自己的內部努力，我們對可再生能源的使用、碳信用以及與我們的供應商和我們的綠色製造供應鏈，以實現並實現這些目標。

Okay.

好的。

Understood.

明白了。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, Roland.

謝謝你，羅蘭。

Next one to ask question, Charlie Chan from Morgan Stanley.

下一位要提問的是來自摩根士丹利的 Charlie Chan。

So my question -- first question is about the chip shortage situation.

所以我的問題——第一個問題是關於芯片短缺的情況。

I think the Chairman took an interview by Time Magazine, and his view is that there should be more than sufficient finished chip in the supply chain.

我認為董事長接受了時代雜誌的採訪，他的觀點是供應鏈中應該有足夠的成品芯片。

So can you help us, our global investors, to understand when do you think that chip shortage, especially for the automotive can be fixed?

那麼，您能否幫助我們，我們的全球投資者，了解您認為何時可以解決芯片短缺問題，尤其是汽車芯片短缺問題？

And also, your advise to the major governments or car makers besides asking you to provide the customer data, what would be a better way to manage the shortage issue going forward?

此外，您對主要政府或汽車製造商的建議除了要求您提供客戶數據外，還有什麼更好的方法來管理未來的短缺問題？

Okay.

好的。

So thank you, Charlie.

所以謝謝你，查理。

Charlie's first question is around the chip shortage with several aspects to it.

查理的第一個問題是圍繞芯片短缺的幾個方面。

Charlie wants to know, with the chip shortage and also sort of observations of customers' stockpiling chips, he wants to know that how do we see the situation?

查理想知道，隨著芯片短缺以及對客戶庫存芯片的觀察，他想知道我們如何看待這種情況？

And when can this be fixed, particularly for the automotive segment?

什麼時候可以解決這個問題，特別是對於汽車領域？

And yes, let me stop there first.

是的，讓我先停在那裡。

Yes.

是的。

For the automotive, let me specifically point it out.

對於汽車，讓我特別指出。

The automotive supply chain actually is quite long and complex.

汽車供應鏈實際上相當長且複雜。

It's more complicated than we initially thought.

它比我們最初想像的要復雜。

But let me say that TSMC's participation in the global automotive IC market is only about 15%.

但我說台積電在全球汽車IC市場的參與度只有15%左右。

And we are doing our part to support our automotive customer with what they need.

我們正在儘自己的一份力量為我們的汽車客戶提供他們需要的東西。

However, we cannot solve the entire industry's supply challenge.

但是，我們無法解決整個行業的供應挑戰。

And recent factors, such as pandemic in Southeast Asia, are also affecting the auto IC supply.

而近期東南亞疫情等因素也在影響汽車IC供應。

Again, we are actively taking the steps throughout the first half of this year to address the chip supply challenges for our automotive customer.

同樣，我們在今年上半年積極採取措施，為我們的汽車客戶解決芯片供應挑戰。

And we also believe the wafer supply shortage is greatly reduced for our automotive customers, starting probably in third quarter.

我們還認為，我們的汽車客戶的晶圓供應短缺情況將大大減少，可能從第三季度開始。

The end of OEM, probably we'll wait for a couple of quarters to see it.

OEM 的結束，可能我們還要等幾個季度才能看到。

That's our estimate.

這是我們的估計。

It's super helpful.

這非常有幫助。

And another question is about, again, the price hike, right?

另一個問題是關於價格上漲，對嗎？

So I think news were reporting you decided to hike the price by 5% to 20%.

所以我認為新聞報導你決定將價格提高 5% 到 20%。

So may we know how do you determine the different range applying to different customers?

那麼我們是否知道您如何確定適用於不同客戶的不同範圍？

What's the kind of strategic reason behind for a different range of a price hike?

不同幅度的漲價背後的戰略原因是什麼？

And I know you don't want to give the next year guidance, right?

我知道你不想給明年的指導，對吧？

But based on the 5%, 20% price hike, in terms of percentage of gross margin improvement, can you or Wendell comment on the margin improvement?

但是基於 5%、20% 的價格上漲，就毛利率改善的百分比而言，您或 Wendell 能否評論毛利率的改善？

Okay.

好的。

Charlie's second question is asking about pricing and he is asking that recently, there's lots of news that we have increased our price by anywhere from 5% to 20%.

查理的第二個問題是關於定價的問題，他問的是最近，有很多消息說我們將價格提高了 5% 到 20%。

So he wants to know how do we decide, how much to increase for what types of nodes or customers.

所以他想知道我們如何決定，為什麼類型的節點或客戶增加多少。

And then also, what will be the impact to 2022 gross margin?

然後，對 2022 年的毛利率有何影響？

Is that correct, Charlie?

對嗎，查理？

Yes.

是的。

Charlie.

查理。

In fact, we do not comment on our pricing, this is a very private discussion between TSMC and our customers.

事實上，我們不對我們的定價發表評論，這是台積電和我們的客戶之間非常私密的討論。

But let me say that we continue to work closely with our customers to support their growth.

但讓我說，我們將繼續與客戶密切合作，以支持他們的發展。

That one needed TSMC to expand the capacity to support their growth.

那需要台積電擴大產能以支持其增長。

It's for both leading-edge technologies and specialty technologies.

它適用於前沿技術和專業技術。

And so our wafer's pricing strategy continue to be strategic, not opportunistic or short term and so that we can be better prepared to support the capacity expansion.

所以我們的晶圓定價策略繼續是戰略性的，而不是機會主義或短期的，這樣我們就可以更好地準備支持產能擴張。

As for the return, let me emphasize it again.

至於回報，我再強調一遍。

Our gross margin will be 50% and higher.

我們的毛利率將達到 50% 或更高。

TSMC needs to earn a proper return that can enable us to invest for the future expansion to support our customers' growth.

台積電需要獲得適當的回報，使我們能夠為未來的擴張進行投資，以支持客戶的增長。

Okay.

好的。

I guess my question is that whether your desired ROI or desired margin changed, right?

我想我的問題是，您想要的 ROI 或想要的利潤是否發生了變化，對吧？

Meaning you -- for example, you hiked the price by certain percentage points, but besides passing through this cost, you just mentioned, whether they would lead to further margin expansion?

意思是你——例如，你把價格提高了幾個百分點，但是除了通過這個成本，你剛才提到，它們是否會導致進一步的利潤率擴張？

I think that should be the core of my question.

我認為這應該是我問題的核心。

Right.

正確的。

Charlie, I think we just said that in the past, we always say about 50% gross margin.

查理，我想我們剛剛說過，過去我們總是說毛利率約為 50%。

But now we're saying that 50% and higher gross margins is achievable.

但現在我們說可以實現 50% 甚至更高的毛利率。

Thank you, Charlie.

謝謝你，查理。

Right now, we have Nick Gaudois from UBS.

現在，我們有來自瑞銀的 Nick Gaudois。

Yes.

是的。

Just going back to the confirmation you just did on investing in Japan.

回到你剛剛在日本投資時所做的確認。

Should we understand that the portion of CapEx in '22, '23 is incorporated in your overall guidance of $100 billion?

我們是否應該理解 22 年和 23 年的資本支出部分已包含在您 1000 億美元的總體指導中？

Or would that come on top?

還是會排在首位？

And would you -- could you specify it if you can at all?

如果可以的話，您是否會指定它？

And related question to that would be, what kind of capacity are we talking about for 22- and 28-nanometer?

與此相關的問題是，我們在談論 22 和 28 納米的容量是多少？

Okay.

好的。

So Nick's first question is about our fab plans in Japan.

所以尼克的第一個問題是關於我們在日本的工廠計劃。

He wants to know that with today's announcement, is the CapEx for the Japan fab already incorporated in the -- this $100 billion target that we have talked about previously?

他想知道，隨著今天的公告，日本工廠的資本支出是否已經納入我們之前討論過的 1000 億美元目標？

And also, can we disclose the capacity for Japan?

還有，我們能透露一下日本的產能嗎？

Okay, Nick.

好的，尼克。

The CapEx for this project, as we said last time in last quarterly release, was not included in the $100 billion budget that you mentioned.

正如我們上次在上個季度發布中所說，該項目的資本支出未包含在您提到的 1000 億美元預算中。

So it will be incremental.

所以它將是增量的。

Other than this, we really are not able to comment on the investment amount and other details until after our Board's review and approval.

除此之外，在董事會審查和批准之前，我們確實無法對投資金額和其他細節發表評論。

Right.

正確的。

Okay.

好的。

Fair enough.

很公平。

Understood.

明白了。

And going back to N3 and N3E.

回到 N3 和 N3E。

I mean you talked about an improved process window for N3E.

我的意思是您談到了 N3E 的改進流程窗口。

Is that the only main difference?

這是唯一的主要區別嗎？

Or is there a difference in performance as well between the 2?

或者兩者之間的性能也有差異？

Okay.

好的。

So Nick's second question is on N3E.

所以尼克的第二個問題是關於N3E。

He notes that we have talked about the improved manufacturing process window.

他指出，我們已經討論了改進的製造工藝窗口。

He wonders if there's any other improvements in things like performance and et cetera.

他想知道在性能等方面是否還有其他改進。

There's a difference.

有區別。

As we said, N3E is an improvement, improvement in the manufacturing window.

正如我們所說，N3E是一個改進，製造窗口的改進。

However, the majority and the general assumption is similar.

但是，大多數和一般假設是相似的。

We're using the N3E to enhance the manufacturing window with a better performance.

我們正在使用 N3E 以更好的性能來增強製造窗口。

Thank you, Nick.

謝謝你，尼克。

Next one, we have Laura Chen, KGI.

下一位，我們有凱基證券的 Laura Chen。

I think we are talking about seeing the solid demand across the board, thanks to TSMC's strong position and technology.

我認為，由於台積電的強大地位和技術，我們正在談論看到全面穩固的需求。

But on the other hand, on the demand side, we are also seeing that smartphone growth is slowing down, particularly in China.

但另一方面，在需求方面，我們也看到智能手機增長放緩，尤其是在中國。

So I think back in the early -- earlier this year, we mentioned about a 5G smartphone shipment.

所以我回想起年初——今年早些時候，我們提到了 5G 智能手機出貨量。

We estimate that will be 500 million to 550 million units.

我們估計這將是 5 億至 5.5 億台。

Just wondering, do you still keep that target?

只是想知道，你還保持這個目標嗎？

And also, do you have any idea or preliminary projection for the 5G smartphone into next year?

另外，您對明年的 5G 智能手機有什麼想法或初步預測嗎？

And also, where is like the smartphone if 5G move into a more like a lower-end or mainstream kind of segment?

此外，如果 5G 進入更像低端或主流的細分市場，智能手機在哪裡呢？

What's the implication to TSMC?

對台積電有何影響？

That's my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

Okay, Laura.

好的，勞拉。

So Laura's question is focusing on the smartphone.

所以勞拉的問題集中在智能手機上。

She notes that recently, it seems the smartphone momentum in markets like China are slower.

她指出，最近，中國等市場的智能手機發展勢頭似乎放緩了。

So she is wondering about what is our forecast for the smartphone market this year as well as how do we see the 5G penetration this year and then also the trend for the next few years.

所以她想知道我們對今年智能手機市場的預測是什麼，以及我們如何看待今年的 5G 滲透率以及未來幾年的趨勢。

Is that correct, Laura?

對嗎，勞拉？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Okay.

好的。

Laura, let me answer this question.

勞拉，讓我來回答這個問題。

We see the prolification of the 5G smartphone is still higher than the 4G at the same period of time before.

我們看到 5G 智能手機的普及率仍然高於之前同期的 4G。

And also, we're looking at about probably slightly over 500 million units of 5G smartphone for this year.

此外，我們預計今年 5G 智能手機的銷量可能會略高於 5 億部。

Right.

正確的。

So do you have any preliminary thoughts about the next year growth?

那麼你對明年的增長有什麼初步的想法嗎？

And was that mainly driven by the lower-end segment?

這主要是由低端市場驅動的嗎？

In that case, what's the implication to our outlook?

在那種情況下，對我們的前景有何影響？

Yes.

是的。

We'll update you about the information in January.

我們將在一月份向您更新有關信息。

And also, my second question is also regarding our CapEx intensity.

而且，我的第二個問題也是關於我們的資本支出強度。

We already talked about like the 3-year horizontal, but just wondering that do we still expect the CapEx intensity to maintain high beyond 2023 since we are launching gate-all-around or 2-nanometer in 2025?

我們已經討論過 3 年水平，但只是想知道，自從我們在 2025 年推出全柵極或 2 納米之後，我們是否仍預計資本支出強度在 2023 年之後保持高位？

So can we expect TSMC will start to bear fruit like our previous intensity -- CapEx intensity hike back in 2011, and thus, we will maintain the high CAGR growth going forward?

那麼我們是否可以期待台積電會像我們之前的強度一樣開始結出果實——2011 年資本支出強度上調，因此我們將保持未來的高 CAGR 增長？

Okay.

好的。

So Laura's second question is on capital -- CapEx intensity.

所以勞拉的第二個問題是關於資本——資本支出強度。

She is asking, what is the outlook for our capital intensity beyond 2023?

她在問，2023 年後我們的資本密集度前景如何？

Will we still have a very high level of capital intensity?

我們還會有非常高的資本密集度嗎？

Or she notes back in the 2010, 2011 period, of course, our capital intensity was higher, but then we were able to harvest the growth and grow -- capture the growth.

或者她指出，在 2010 年、2011 年期間，當然，我們的資本密集度更高，但隨後我們能夠收穫增長並增長——捕捉增長。

So how do we see the next few years playing out?

那麼我們如何看待未來幾年的發展？

Okay.

好的。

Laura, in 2020, the capital intensity was 38%.

勞拉，2020 年，資本密集度為 38%。

2021, this year, is going to be over 50%.

到 2021 年，今年將超過 50%。

As we said earlier, and C.C. mentioned this earlier, our CapEx spent every year is in anticipation of the growth in the future years.

正如我們之前所說，C.C.前面提到過，我們每年花費的資本支出是對未來幾年的增長的預期。

So if we think the future growth outlook is good, then there's a possibility of higher CapEx.

因此，如果我們認為未來的增長前景良好，那麼資本支出可能會更高。

And we're entering into a higher-growth period because of the industry megatrends of 5G and HPC applications plus the silicon content increase.

由於 5G 和 HPC 應用的行業大趨勢以及矽含量的增加，我們正在進入更高的增長期。

So the capital -- higher capital investment in the next few years is appropriate.

所以資本——未來幾年更高的資本投資是合適的。

As a result, we expect the capital intensity to be relatively higher than previous year, like in 2020, for the next 2 to 3 years before gradually coming down maybe to mid- to high 30s level from what I can see at this moment.

因此，我們預計未來 2 到 3 年資本密集度將相對高於去年，如 2020 年，然後逐漸下降到目前所見的 30 年代中高水平。

And your observation on the previous investment cycle in 2011 to 2014 will be a good one.

您對 2011 年至 2014 年的上一個投資週期的觀察將是一個很好的觀察。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, Laura.

謝謝你，勞拉。

Next one to ask questions, Sebastian Hou, Neuberger Berman.

下一位要提問的是 Sebastian Hou，Neuberger Berman。

I only have one.

我只有一個。

It's on pricing.

是關於定價的。

So I think last quarter, the company talked about firming up pricing to reflect the cost.

所以我認為上個季度，該公司談到了提高定價以反映成本。

And based on the higher long-term gross margin guidance that the CFO gives this time, a 50% plus, I'm curious if this round of pricing adjustment is enough to absorb the higher CapEx intensity only for this year or next multiple years.

根據首席財務官這次給出的更高的長期毛利率指導，超過 50%，我很好奇這一輪定價調整是否足以吸收今年或未來幾年更高的資本支出強度。

I have a follow-up to this question, so I will stop here.

我有這個問題的後續行動，所以我會在這裡停下來。

Okay, Sebastian.

好的，塞巴斯蒂安。

His first question is on pricing, and we have talked about firming our pricing, actually also talking about selling our value in the past.

他的第一個問題是關於定價的，我們已經談到了確定我們的定價，實際上也談到了過去出售我們的價值。

So he is wondering, now that we say 50% and higher gross margin, does that mean we -- it is enough to cover the cost?

所以他想知道，既然我們說 50% 和更高的毛利率，這是否意味著我們 - 足以支付成本？

Okay.

好的。

Sebastian, let me answer it this way.

塞巴斯蒂安，讓我這樣回答。

Well, first of all, we're not able to comment on detailed pricing discussion with the customers.

好吧，首先，我們無法就與客戶的詳細定價討論發表評論。

But we work closely with the customer to provide our value.

但我們與客戶密切合作以提供我們的價值。

And after providing our value, we're now expecting that long-term gross margin of 50% or higher -- and higher, I'm sorry.

在提供了我們的價值之後，我們現在預計長期毛利率將達到 50% 或更高——對不起，甚至更高。

50% and higher is achievable as compared to the 50 -- about 50% gross margin previously.

與 50 相比，50% 甚至更高是可以實現的——之前的毛利率約為 50%。

Got it.

知道了。

Got it.

知道了。

So my follow-up is that given that the next couple of years' CapEx plan, it is still fluid, and I think CFO also mentioned there could be upside to our CapEx plan because of the Japan or any other reasons.

所以我的後續行動是，鑑於未來幾年的資本支出計劃，它仍然不穩定，而且我認為首席財務官還提到，由於日本或任何其他原因，我們的資本支出計劃可能會有上行空間。

So does that imply this will be a continuous adjustment?

那麼這是否意味著這將是一個持續的調整？

Meaning that it won't be just 1 shot, but we will evaluate the future pricing and what kind of value we can offer to customers based on the CapEx and based on our -- and also to balance the structural profitability.

這意味著它不會只是一擊，但我們將評估未來的定價以及我們可以根據資本支出和我們的客戶提供什麼樣的價值 - 以及平衡結構盈利能力。

So that means that we may continue to see potential upside in the price in coming years?

那麼這意味著我們可能會在未來幾年繼續看到價格的潛在上漲空間嗎？

Okay.

好的。

Sebastian, so your follow-up is, again -- let me summarize it.

塞巴斯蒂安，所以你的後續行動是——讓我總結一下。

I think Sebastian is asking our pricing, is it sort of a onetime?

我想塞巴斯蒂安在問我們的定價，是一次性的嗎？

Or will it be sort of an ongoing thing?

或者它會是一個持續的事情嗎？

Sebastian, this is C.C. Wei.

塞巴斯蒂安，這是 C.C.魏。

Certainly, I will not be able to comment on the pricing discussion with our customers.

當然，我無法對與客戶的定價討論發表評論。

But we work with them and we continue to plan our capacity and share our value.

但我們與他們合作，我們將繼續規劃我們的能力並分享我們的價值。

The capacity is one of the very important values of TSMC to support customers' growth.

產能是台積電支持客戶成長的重要價值之一。

And so our pricing is accordingly with our value, and so we prepared for that.

所以我們的定價與我們的價值相一致，所以我們為此做好了準備。

This is a onetime or this is not?

這是一次性的還是不是？

It's not a question.

這不是一個問題。

We do it strategically and not opportunistic and continue to work with our customer.

我們戰略性地做到這一點，而不是投機取巧，並繼續與我們的客戶合作。

Got it.

知道了。

But at least I think we can make a fair conclusion that the higher-margin guidance outlook at this time is a strong reflection or evidence of that the customer is willing to pay higher to -- because of -- we offer value-added service.

但至少我認為我們可以得出一個公平的結論，即此時更高利潤率的指導前景強烈反映或證明客戶願意支付更高的費用——因為——我們提供增值服務。

Is that right -- fair to interpret as it?

對嗎——這樣解釋是公平的嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, Sebastian.

謝謝你，塞巴斯蒂安。

The next one to ask questions, Mehdi Hosseini, Susquehanna International.

下一位提問的是 Susquehanna International 的 Mehdi Hosseini。

I want to go back to your comments on N3 and N3 plus.

我想回到您對 N3 和 N3 plus 的評論。

Can you tell me how I should think about EUV double-patterning and how it will impact the cost structure?

你能告訴我應該如何看待 EUV 雙重圖案以及它將如何影響成本結構嗎？

And I have a follow-on.

我有一個後續。

Okay.

好的。

Mehdi's first question is about -- on N3.

Mehdi 的第一個問題是關於——關於 N3。

And actually, Mehdi, it's N3E, not N3 plus.

實際上，Mehdi，它是 N3E，而不是 N3 plus。

So his question on N3 and N3E.

所以他關於 N3 和 N3E 的問題。

He's wondering about the impact of things, like EUV and double-patterning.

他想知道諸如 EUV 和雙圖案等事物的影響。

What impact does this have on the cost structure, for N3 and N3E?

這對 N3 和 N3E 的成本結構有什麼影響？

Well, let me answer that question.

好吧，讓我來回答這個問題。

From N3 to N3E, we provide better value on the transistor performance and have a better manufacturing window.

從 N3 到 N3E，我們提供更好的晶體管性能價值，並擁有更好的製造窗口。

As for the cost, they are similar, but we think our customer will enjoy a better yield, better defect density and better transistor performance.

至於成本，它們是相似的，但我們認為我們的客戶將享受到更好的良率、更好的缺陷密度和更好的晶體管性能。

Okay.

好的。

And my final question would be to you.

我的最後一個問題是給你的。

Your earlier commentary on customer prepayment.

您之前對客戶預付款的評論。

In the past, you've had 1 or 2 largest customers that have promoted prepayment.

過去，您有 1 或 2 個最大的客戶推廣預付款。

Should I assume that there is a diversification and larger number of customers that are providing these prepayments?

我是否應該假設提供這些預付款的客戶多樣化且數量更多？

Okay.

好的。

So Mehdi's second question is on customer prepayments.

所以 Mehdi 的第二個問題是關於客戶預付款的。

He observes that in the past, we may have had 1 or 2 customers who do prepayments.

他觀察到，在過去，我們可能有 1 或 2 個客戶進行預付款。

He wants to know, are we seeing a diversification?

他想知道，我們是否看到了多樣化？

Are we seeing a larger number of customers doing prepayments today?

我們今天是否看到更多的客戶進行預付款？

Okay, Mehdi, let me answer these questions.

好的，Mehdi，讓我來回答這些問題。

Yes, in the past, there was only 1 or 2 customers providing the prepayments.

是的，過去只有 1 或 2 個客戶提供預付款。

But as we've been talking now, we expect to invest higher capacity, higher capital expenditures in the next few years to satisfy the strong demand.

但正如我們現在所說的那樣，我們預計未來幾年將投資更高的產能和更高的資本支出，以滿足強勁的需求。

And in order to secure our customers' commitment, we are able to secure the prepayments for some of those customers.

為了確保客戶的承諾，我們能夠為其中一些客戶確保預付款。

And the number of the customer, I cannot disclose, but it's more than before.

還有客戶的數量，我不能透露，但比以前多了。

Okay, thank you, Mehdi.

好的，謝謝你，邁赫迪。

The next one will be Rick Hsu from Daiwa Capital Market.

下一位將是來自大和資本市場的 Rick Hsu。

This is Rick.

這是瑞克。

So the first question is about -- I think a follow-up to Bruce's question earlier about the disconnect between sell-in and sell-through demands.

所以第一個問題是關於 - 我認為布魯斯早些時候關於銷售和銷售需求之間脫節的問題的後續行動。

And I think C.C. mentioned that he doesn't rule out the possibility of the inventory correction.

我認為 C.C.提到他不排除庫存調整的可能性。

May I know if that happens, do you -- when do you expect that to happen?

我可以知道如果發生這種情況，你 - 你預計什麼時候會發生這種情況？

And also, if that happens, which area would feel the more impact in terms of technology nodes and in terms of the end applications?

而且，如果發生這種情況，哪個領域在技術節點和最終應用方面會受到更大的影響？

Okay.

好的。

So Rick's question is, again, going back to the disconnect of sell-in versus sell-through and also that we have said we do not rule out the possibility of the inventory correction.

所以里克的問題是，再次回到賣出與賣出之間的脫節，而且我們已經說過我們不排除庫存調整的可能性。

Rick wants to know if one were to occur, when would it occur?

Rick 想知道是否會發生，什麼時候會發生？

What particular end segments or applications could be more impacted?

哪些特定的終端領域或應用程序可能會受到更大的影響？

Rick, I said we do not rule out the possibility.

瑞克，我說我們不排除這種可能性。

It's just a possibility.

這只是一種可能。

And all I say is TSMC's capacity will remain very tight in 2021 and throughout 2022.

我只想說，台積電的產能在 2021 年和整個 2022 年都將保持非常緊張。

Which market sector?

哪個市場部門？

So far we observed a little bit soft in smartphone and the PC market.

到目前為止，我們觀察到智能手機和個人電腦市場有點疲軟。

But if you ask me to predict, I cannot give you a very accurate prediction.

但如果你讓我預測，我無法給你一個非常準確的預測。

We are the only one -- I can give you a hint as we continue to say.

我們是唯一的——我可以給你一個提示，我們繼續說。

It's not for the semiconductor industry.

它不適用於半導體行業。

The demand does not only come from the unit growth, but also it's increasing silicon content in end devices.

需求不僅來自單位增長，還來自終端設備中矽含量的增加。

So even you saw some smartphone units become soft or even decrease, that doesn't mean that semiconductor or the business or the demand will drop.

因此，即使您看到一些智能手機銷量疲軟甚至下降，但這並不意味著半導體或業務或需求會下降。

Does that answer your question?

這是否回答你的問題？

Yes.

是的。

Perfect.

完美的。

Yes.

是的。

That's very good.

這是非常好的。

And the second question is on the technology migration.

第二個問題是關於技術遷移。

I remember that the 7-nanometer, you defined a 7-plus as a node for you guys to have a very good transition with EUV.

我記得 7 納米，您將 7+ 定義為一個節點，以便你們與 EUV 有一個非常好的過渡。

So I'm just wondering if -- are you going to do the same thing to define a particular technology node for the GAA transition?

所以我只是想知道您是否會做同樣的事情來為 GAA 過渡定義一個特定的技術節點？

Okay.

好的。

So Rick's second question is about technology migration and transition.

所以瑞克的第二個問題是關於技術遷移和轉型。

He notes that in N7, we had introduced also N7+ to transition and start to adopt EUV.

他指出，在 N7 中，我們還引入了 N7+ 以過渡並開始採用 EUV。

So he's asking if we will incorporate a similar transition as we move to a new transistor structure.

所以他問我們是否會在我們轉向新的晶體管結構時加入類似的過渡。

Well, I don't think that we can have any more information to share with you as we move from N3 to go to the next more advanced node.

好吧，當我們從 N3 轉移到下一個更高級的節點時，我認為沒有更多信息可以與您分享。

Today, I only announced the N3 to N3E, that we have a better transistor performance and better manufacturing window.

今天，我隻公布了 N3 到 N3E，我們有更好的晶體管性能和更好的製造窗口。

For N2 GAA, we will share with you when we are getting more ready.

對於 N2 GAA，我們將在準備就緒時與您分享。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, Rick.

謝謝你，瑞克。

Now the one who's going to ask question is Krish Sankar, Cowen and Company.

現在要提出問題的是 Krish Sankar，Cowen and Company。

I just wanted to follow up.

我只是想跟進。

One is on C.C.'s prepared comments.

一個是關於 C.C. 準備好的評論。

You said the industry is going to maintain a higher level of inventory.

您說行業將保持較高的庫存水平。

Can you tell us the specific end markets and which specific technology nodes you're seeing with higher level of inventories?

您能否告訴我們具體的終端市場以及您看到哪些具體技術節點的庫存水平較高？

And your comment that you're seeing softness in smartphone and PCs.

你的評論是你看到智能手機和個人電腦的軟弱。

Is there a function of end demand?

有終端需求函數嗎？

Or is it a function of not being able to get the components to make those products?

還是無法獲得製造這些產品的組件的功能？

And then I have a quick follow-up.

然後我有一個快速跟進。

Okay, Krish.

好的，克里希。

Krish's first question is on the higher level of inventory that we see preparing in the supply chain.

Krish 的第一個問題是關於我們看到在供應鏈中準備的更高水平的庫存。

He wants to know which end markets or applications specifically or which technology nodes do we see this higher level of inventory.

他想知道具體是哪些終端市場或應用程序，或者我們看到了更高水平的庫存，哪些技術節點。

And then also, the slower momentum in the sell-through of smartphone or PCs, is this related to component tightness or shortages?

此外，智能手機或個人電腦的銷售勢頭放緩，這是否與組件緊張或短缺有關？

Well, let me answer the question.

好吧，讓我來回答這個問題。

The high level of inventory is actually caused by some of the necessity, not to be disrupted in the supply chain.

高庫存實際上是一些必要性造成的，而不是在供應鏈中被打亂。

So it's across the board.

所以它是全面的。

Actually, it's not any node or any product.

實際上，它不是任何節點或任何產品。

It's across the board.

這是全面的。

And we say it will be continued for a period of time.

我們說它會持續一段時間。

That is because of today, all those elements to drive the people to prepare more inventory still continue to exist.

那是因為今天，所有那些驅使人們準備更多庫存的因素仍然存在。

Did that answer your question?

這回答了你的問題嗎？

Got it.

知道了。

Yes, it did.

是的，它確實。

And then just like the second part of this question, which is the softness in smartphone and PCs, is that end demand-related or component tightness-related?

然後就像這個問題的第二部分，即智能手機和個人電腦的疲軟，是與最終需求相關還是與組件鬆緊相關？

And then I'll ask one final question along with it.

然後我會問最後一個問題。

The gross margin upside you saw in Q3 from back end, was it a onetime thing?

您在第三季度從後端看到的毛利率上升，是一次性的嗎？

Or is there more upside to that in the future?

或者未來還有更多的好處嗎？

Okay?

好的？

So Krish's question, also sort of this weakness that we see in areas like smartphone, is it -- and PCs, is this related to end demand?

所以 Krish 的問題，也是我們在智能手機等領域看到的這種弱點，是不是和個人電腦，這與最終需求有關嗎？

Or is it related to component shortages?

還是與零部件短缺有關？

Both, actually.

實際上，兩者都是。

Let me answer the question quickly.

讓我快速回答這個問題。

Actually, end market is a little bit soft, it's slow, but we think it's partly due to the component shortage.

實際上，終端市場有點疲軟，緩慢，但我們認為部分原因是零部件短缺。

And then the second part -- or Krish's second question, I should say, is on the gross margin side and also the improved back-end profitability.

然後第二部分 - 或者 Krish 的第二個問題，我應該說，是毛利率方面以及後端盈利能力的提高。

Right.

正確的。

The back-end business is sort of seasonal.

後端業務有點季節性。

It has high season, low season during the years.

每年有旺季，淡季。

So normally, second half is high season, especially third quarter.

所以通常情況下，下半年是旺季，尤其是第三季度。

As a result, the profitability of back-end will be better in that quarter.

因此，該季度後端的盈利能力會更好。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Yes.

是的。

The last one to ask questions is Andrew Lu from Sinolink Securities.

最後一個提問的是國金證券的Andrew Lu。

C.C., I want to ask.

C.C.，我想問。

This year, you just guided 24% year-over-year growth.

今年，您剛剛指導了 24% 的同比增長。

I think this number is probably in line with the industry.

我認為這個數字可能與行業一致。

It is clear we have a strong growth in advanced technology but losing some share in the legacy.

很明顯，我們在先進技術方面取得了強勁增長，但在傳統技術中失去了一些份額。

Earlier, Wendell mentioned we will build more mature technology based on the customers' demand.

早些時候，Wendell 提到我們會根據客戶的需求打造更成熟的技術。

So if our CapEx is unchanged, will we adjust down our advanced CapEx but increase more CapEx on mature technology?

那麼，如果我們的資本支出不變，我們是否會下調我們先進的資本支出，但在成熟技術上增加更多的資本支出？

Okay.

好的。

So Andrew's first question, he's looking at our growth in 2021 to be around 24%.

所以安德魯的第一個問題是，他認為我們在 2021 年的增長率將在 24% 左右。

He sees the strong leadership in the advanced nodes, but his note is that we're losing share in the mature nodes.

他看到了先進節點的強大領導力，但他指出，我們正在失去成熟節點的份額。

So going forward, will there be any adjustment in our CapEx strategy, leading versus mature?

那麼展望未來，我們的資本支出戰略是否會發生任何調整，領先還是成熟？

Is that correct, Andrew?

對嗎，安德魯？

Yes, correct.

是，對的。

Andrew, let me answer that.

安德魯，讓我回答這個問題。

We did not change our strategy or philosophy in our CapEx plan.

我們沒有改變資本支出計劃中的戰略或理念。

But certainly, the most important thing is that we are working with our customers to support their demand.

但可以肯定的是，最重要的是我們正在與客戶合作以支持他們的需求。

This is very important.

這個非常重要。

That including the specialty technologies.

這包括專業技術。

We shared them -- actually, we shared them to increase the mature nodes capacity.

我們共享它們——實際上，我們共享它們是為了增加成熟節點的容量。

But as we announced the Japan fab, actually it is a mature technology.

但正如我們宣布的日本工廠，實際上它是一項成熟的技術。

It's a 22, 28 node.

這是一個 22、28 節點。

So can we say that in the future, we should have a higher percentage of CapEx in terms of total CapEx compared to the past?

那麼我們是否可以說，與過去相比，我們應該在總資本支出中擁有更高的資本支出百分比？

So Andrew really wants to know, well -- Andrew wants to know will the CapEx spending portion -- proportion of the mature nodes versus leading edge, will we have a higher proportion for the mature nodes in the future years?

所以安德魯真的很想知道，嗯——安德魯想知道資本支出部分——成熟節點與前沿的比例，未來幾年成熟節點的比例會更高嗎？

Andrew, not yet because we increased our CapEx, right?

安德魯，還不是因為我們增加了資本支出，對吧？

So even the same proportion, the mature nodes, actually, we spend a lot of money also.

所以即使是同樣的比例，成熟的節點，其實我們也花了很多錢。

Did that answer your question?

這回答了你的問題嗎？

Yes, yes.

是的是的。

My last question is, since we are adjusting our price based on the cost increase or whatever, how do we factor into our model for next year?

我的最後一個問題是，由於我們正在根據成本增加或其他因素調整價格，我們如何將明年的模型納入我們的模型中？

What kind of blended ASP increase should we factor into our model?

我們應該在模型中考慮什麼樣的混合 ASP 增長？

Because I have been -- observed average price on a blended basis for the last 3 years including this year.

因為我一直在觀察過去 3 年（包括今年）的混合平均價格。

Our price for last 3 years, including this year, about 7% to 9%.

我們過去3年的價格，包括今年，大約在7%到9%之間。

So if next year, we have additional adjustment on the apple-to-apple pricing level, should we say easy to have a 10% blended basis increase on ASPs?

因此，如果明年，我們對蘋果對蘋果的定價水平進行額外調整，我們是否應該說很容易在 ASP 上實現 10% 的混合基礎增長？

Okay.

好的。

So Andrew, second question is on the blended ASP outlook.

所以安德魯，第二個問題是關於混合 ASP 前景的。

He wants to know, in essence, can he model a 10% or greater blended ASP increase for 2022?

他想知道，從本質上講，他能否模擬 2022 年 10% 或更高的混合 ASP 增長？

Andrew, it's too early to comment on 2022.

安德魯，現在評論 2022 年還為時過早。

We will provide you more color in January.

我們將在一月份為您提供更多顏色。

Plus we don't really comment on ASP anyway.

另外，無論如何，我們並沒有真正評論 ASP。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

This concludes our Q&A session.

我們的問答環節到此結束。

Before we conclude today's conference, please be advised that the replay of the conference will be accessible within 4 hours from now, and the transcript will become available 24 hours from now, and both of which are available through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

在今天的會議結束前，請注意，會議回放將在 4 小時後提供，成績單將在 24 小時後提供，兩者均可通過台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 獲取.

So thank you for joining us today.

所以，感謝您今天加入我們。

We hope everyone continues to stay healthy and safe, and we hope you will join us again next quarter in January.

我們希望每個人都繼續保持健康和安全，我們希望您能在 1 月的下個季度再次加入我們。

Goodbye and have a good day.

再見，祝你有美好的一天。