台積電 ADR (TSM) 2019 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(foreign language) Welcome to TSMC's Third Quarter 2019 Earnings Conference and Conference Call.

（外文）歡迎參加台積電2019年第三季度財報電話會議。

This is Elizabeth Sun, TSMC's Senior Director of Corporate Communications and your host for today.

我是台積電企業傳播高級總監 Elizabeth Sun，也是今天的主持人。

Today's event is webcast live through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

今天的活動通過台積電的網站 www.tsmc.com 進行網絡直播。

If you are joining us through the conference call, your dial-in lines are in listen-only mode.

如果您通過電話會議加入我們，您的撥入線路處於只聽模式。

As this conference is being viewed by investors around the world, we will conduct this event in English only.

由於世界各地的投資者都在觀看本次會議，因此我們將僅以英語進行本次活動。

The format for today's event will be as follows: first, TSMC's Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Wendell Huang, will summarize our operations in the third quarter 2019 followed by the guidance for the fourth quarter.

今天活動的形式如下：首先，台積電副總裁兼首席財務官黃文德先生將總結我們在 2019 年第三季度的運營情況，然後是第四季度的指導。

Afterwards, Mr. Huang and TSMC CEO, Dr. C.C. Wei, will jointly provide company's key messages.

隨後，黃先生與台積電總裁C.C.魏，將共同提供公司的關鍵信息。

Then we will open both the floor and the line for the Q&A.

然後我們將打開地板和線路進行問答。

For those participants on the call, if you do not yet have a copy of the press release, you may download it from TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

對於電話會議的參與者，如果您還沒有新聞稿的副本，您可以從台積電的網站 www.tsmc.com 下載。

Please also download the summary slides in relation to today's earnings conference presentation.

另請下載與今天的財報會議演示相關的摘要幻燈片。

As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties, which could cause the actual results to differ from -- materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements.

像往常一樣，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含受重大風險和不確定性影響的前瞻性陳述，這可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中包含的結果存在重大差異。

So please refer to the safe harbor notice that appears on our press release.

因此，請參閱我們新聞稿中的安全港通知。

And now I would like to turn the microphone to TSMC's CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, for the summary of operations and current quarter guidance.

現在，我想將麥克風轉給台積電首席財務官黃文德先生，以獲得運營摘要和當前季度指導。

Thank you, Elizabeth.

謝謝你，伊麗莎白。

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today.

大家下午好，感謝您今天加入我們。

My presentation will start with the financial highlights for the third quarter followed by the guidance for the current quarter.

我的演講將從第三季度的財務亮點開始，然後是本季度的指導。

Third quarter revenue increased 21.6% quarter-over-quarter to TWD 293 billion, driven by new product launches, both in premium smartphone and high-performance computing applications using TSMC's industry-leading 7-nanometer technology.

第三季度收入環比增長 21.6% 至 2,930 億新台幣，這得益於新產品的推出，包括採用台積電行業領先的 7 納米技術的高端智能手機和高性能計算應用。

Gross margin increased by 4.6 percentage points sequentially to 47.6%, mainly due to a solid improvement in capacity utilization.

毛利率環比增長 4.6 個百分點至 47.6%，主要是由於產能利用率的穩健提高。

Total operating expenses accounted for 10.7% of net revenue compared to 11.2% in the second quarter due to better operating leverage.

由於更好的運營槓桿，總運營費用占淨收入的 10.7%，而第二季度為 11.2%。

Operating margin increased by 5.1 percentage points sequentially to 36.8%.

營業利潤率環比增長 5.1 個百分點至 36.8%。

Overall, our third quarter EPS was TWD 3.9 and ROE was 25.7%.

總體而言，我們第三季度每股收益為 3.9 新台幣，淨資產收益率為 25.7%。

Now let's take a look at revenue by technology.

現在讓我們來看看技術收入。

7-nanometer technology saw very strong demand and accounted for 27% of wafer revenue in the third quarter.

7 納米技術的需求非常強勁，佔第三季度晶圓收入的 27%。

10-nanometer was 2% and 16-nanometer was 22%.

10 納米為 2%，16 納米為 22%。

Advanced technologies, which are defined as 16-nanometer and below, accounted for 51% of wafer revenue, up from 47% in the second quarter.

定義為 16 納米及以下的先進技術佔晶圓收入的 51%，高於第二季度的 47%。

Now let's take a look at revenue contribution by platform.

現在讓我們來看看平台的收入貢獻。

All 4 of our growth platforms saw demand increases in the third quarter.

我們所有 4 個增長平台在第三季度的需求都出現了增長。

Smartphone increased 33% quarter-over-quarter to account for 49% of our third quarter revenue.

智能手機環比增長 33%，占我們第三季度收入的 49%。

HPC increased 10% to account for 29%.

HPC 增長 10%，佔 29%。

IoT increased 35% to account for 9%.

物聯網增長了 35%，佔 9%。

And automotive increased 20% to account for 4%.

而汽車則增長20%至4%。

Moving on to the balance sheet.

轉到資產負債表。

We ended the third quarter with cash and marketable securities of TWD 585 billion, a decrease of TWD 180 billion from the second quarter, mainly as we distributed TWD 207 billion of cash dividends for 2018.

第三季度結束時，我們的現金和有價證券為 5850 億新台幣，比第二季度減少 1800 億新台幣，主要是因為我們分配了 2070 億新台幣的 2018 年現金股息。

On the liabilities side.

在負債方面。

Current liabilities decreased by TWD 127 billion quarter-over-quarter as we distributed 2018 cash dividend and accrued another TWD 65 billion or TWD 2.5 per share for the second quarter 2019 cash dividend and that will be paid in January of next year.

流動負債環比減少 1270 億新台幣，因為我們分配了 2018 年現金股息，並為 2019 年第二季度的現金股息再計提 650 億新台幣或每股 2.5 新台幣，並將於明年 1 月支付。

On financial ratios.

關於財務比率。

Accounts receivables turnover days decreased 1 day to 41 days.

應收賬款周轉天數減少 1 天至 41 天。

Days of inventory decreased 11 days to 65 days, reflecting higher wafer shipments during the quarter.

庫存天數減少 11 天至 65 天，反映本季度晶圓出貨量增加。

Now let me make a few comments on cash flow and CapEx.

現在讓我對現金流和資本支出發表一些評論。

During the third quarter, we generated about TWD 142 billion of cash from operations, spent TWD 98 billion in capital expenditures and distributed TWD 207 billion of cash dividend.

第三季度，我們從運營中產生了約 1420 億新台幣的現金，花費了 980 億新台幣的資本支出，並分配了 2070 億新台幣的現金股息。

As a result, our overall cash balance decreased by TWD 197 billion to TWD 452 billion at the end of the quarter.

結果，我們的整體現金餘額在本季度末減少了 1,970 億新台幣至 4,520 億新台幣。

In U.S. dollar terms, our third quarter capital expenditures was $3.14 billion.

以美元計算，我們第三季度的資本支出為 31.4 億美元。

I have finished my financial summary.

我已經完成了我的財務摘要。

Now let's turn to fourth quarter guidance.

現在讓我們轉向第四季度的指導。

Based on the current business outlook, we expect our fourth quarter revenue to be between USD 10.2 billion and USD 10.3 billion, which is a 9% sequential increase at the midpoint.

根據目前的業務前景，我們預計第四季度收入將在 102 億美元至 103 億美元之間，中點環比增長 9%。

Based on the exchange rate assumption of USD 1 to TWD 30.6, gross margin is expected to be between 48% and 50%.

根據 1 美元兌 30.6 新台幣的匯率假設，毛利率預計在 48% 至 50% 之間。

Operating margin is expected to be between 37% and 39%.

營業利潤率預計在 37% 至 39% 之間。

This concludes my financial presentation.

我的財務報告到此結束。

Let me follow by making a few comments about 2019 capital expenditures and TSMC's long-term financial objectives.

接下來讓我對 2019 年的資本支出和台積電的長期財務目標發表一些評論。

I will first talk about our capital budget for this year.

我將首先談談我們今年的資本預算。

In TSMC, we build capacity according to our customer's demand.

在台積電，我們根據客戶的需求進行產能建設。

To forecast such demand, we take into consideration not only from each individual customer's indication, but also our own forecast based on macro as well as market segment outlook.

為了預測這種需求，我們不僅要考慮每個客戶的指示，還要考慮我們自己基於宏觀和細分市場前景的預測。

Given the stronger outlook for 5G deployment next year, the demand for our 7-nanometer and 5-nanometer has increased significantly in the last few months.

鑑於明年 5G 部署前景更加強勁，過去幾個月對我們 7 納米和 5 納米的需求顯著增加。

We have, therefore, decided to raise our full year 2019 CapEx by USD 4 billion to meet this increased demand.

因此，我們決定將 2019 年全年的資本支出提高 40 億美元，以滿足這一增長的需求。

We now expect our 2019 CapEx to be between USD 14 billion and USD 15 billion.

我們現在預計 2019 年的資本支出將在 140 億美元至 150 億美元之間。

About USD 1.5 billion of the USD 4 billion Capex increase is for 7-nanometer capacity and $2.5 billion is for 5-nanometer capacity.

在 40 億美元的資本支出增長中，約 15 億美元用於 7 納米產能，25 億美元用於 5 納米產能。

Although we're not able to give you a formal guidance for our next year's CapEx until next January, we currently plan next year's CapEx to be somewhat similar to our revised 2019 CapEx.

雖然我們無法在明年 1 月之前為您提供明年資本支出的正式指導，但我們目前計劃明年的資本支出與我們修訂後的 2019 年資本支出有些相似。

Now let me state our long-term financial objectives.

現在讓我說明我們的長期財務目標。

As the company's new CFO, I'm happy to tell you that TSMC's long-term financial objectives remain the same.

作為公司的新任首席財務官，我很高興地告訴您，台積電的長期財務目標保持不變。

Our goal is to achieve revenue and net income CAGR in the next few years to be between 5% and 10% in U.S. dollar terms, gross margin to be about 50%, operating margin to be about 39% and ROE to be above 20%.

我們的目標是在未來幾年實現收入和淨利潤的年均複合增長率以美元計算在 5% 到 10% 之間，毛利率在 50% 左右，營業利潤率在 39% 左右，ROE 在 20% 以上.

Regarding our cash dividend policy.

關於我們的現金分紅政策。

We reiterate that we will distribute about 70% of free cash flow as cash dividend.

我們重申，我們將分配約 70% 的自由現金流作為現金股息。

More importantly, TSMC is committed to a sustainable cash dividend on both an annual and quarterly basis.

更重要的是，台積電致力於在年度和季度的基礎上提供可持續的現金股息。

Now I will turn the microphone to C.C.

現在我將麥克風轉到 C.C.

Thank you, Wendell.

謝謝你，溫德爾。

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

下午好，女士們，先生們。

Let me start with our near-term demand and inventory.

讓我從我們的近期需求和庫存開始。

We conclude our third quarter just reported by CFO with revenue of TWD 293 billion or USD 9.4 billion.

我們以 2930 億新台幣或 94 億美元的收入結束了首席財務官剛剛報告的第三季度。

That is slightly above our guidance due to better demand from smartphone-related applications than our forecast 3 months ago.

這略高於我們的預期，因為智能手機相關應用的需求好於我們 3 個月前的預測。

Moving into fourth quarter this year, we expect demand from both smartphone- and high-performance computing-related applications will continue to increase, thanks to our industry-leading 7-nanometer technology that powers these applications.

進入今年第四季度，我們預計智能手機和高性能計算相關應用的需求將繼續增加，這要歸功於我們行業領先的 7 納米技術為這些應用提供支持。

On the inventory front, our fabless customers' overall inventory is being gradually digested throughout the third quarter.

在庫存方面，我們無晶圓廠客戶的整體庫存在整個第三季度都在逐步消化。

We now expect it reduce to a few days above seasonal level exiting third quarter then approach seasonal level by the end of this year.

我們現在預計它會在退出第三季度後降至比季節性水平高幾天，然後在今年年底接近季節性水平。

For the full year of 2019, we forecast both the overall semiconductor market excluding memory and the foundry segment to decline by a low single-digit from the year 2018 level.

對於 2019 年全年，我們預測不包括內存和代工部門的整個半導體市場都將比 2018 年的水平下降一個低個位數。

However, we continue to expect TSMC to do better and achieve a slight annual growth.

然而，我們繼續預計台積電會做得更好並實現輕微的年度增長。

Now let me talk about the progress and development of 5G.

現在讓我談談5G的進展和發展。

5G will drive AI applications and bring many benefits to the market.

5G 將推動人工智能應用，並為市場帶來諸多好處。

Performance will be greatly improved with data transmission speed up to 10x faster as compared to 4G network.

性能將大大提高，數據傳輸速度比 4G 網絡快 10 倍。

In addition, 5G latency will have about a 90% reduction as compared to 4G, allowing for real-time response and control.

此外，與 4G 相比，5G 延遲將減少約 90%，從而實現實時響應和控制。

The benefit from 5G will unlock new use cases such as AR, VR, real-time translation and high-quality gaming, to name a few.

5G 帶來的好處將開啟 AR、VR、實時翻譯和高質量遊戲等新用例。

We believe smartphone OEMs will come out with many more innovative applications to take advantage of the 5G infrastructure.

我們相信智能手機 OEM 將推出更多創新應用，以利用 5G 基礎設施。

Since the middle of this year, we have been seeing an acceleration in the worldwide 5G development.

今年年中以來，我們看到全球5G發展加速。

This will speed up the introduction and deployment of 5G network and smartphone in several major market around the world, which leads to the increase of our CapEx for this year.

這將加快 5G 網絡和智能手機在全球幾個主要市場的引入和部署，從而導致我們今年的資本支出增加。

We expect a faster ramp of 5G smartphones as compared to 4G with the penetration rate of 5G smartphones to reach mid-teens percentage of the total smartphone market in 2020.

與 4G 相比，我們預計 5G 智能手機的增長速度將更快，5G 智能手機的滲透率將在 2020 年達到整個智能手機市場的 10% 左右。

Meanwhile, we expect the silicon content of 5G smartphones will be substantially higher than that of 4G smartphones.

同時，我們預計 5G 智能手機的矽含量將大大高於 4G 智能手機。

That is due to increasing functionalities and additional ICs for more camera, RF circuit, modem, power management IC, et cetera.

這是由於功能的增加和用於更多相機、RF 電路、調製解調器、電源管理 IC 等的附加 IC 的緣故。

Power efficiency, speed and ability to incorporate additional functionality are critically important to 5G smartphones, which require TSMC's leading-edge technology and will continue to fuel our growth for the next several years.

電源效率、速度和整合附加功能的能力對於 5G 智能手機至關重要，這需要台積電的領先技術，並將在未來幾年繼續推動我們的增長。

Now I will talk about our N5 and N3 status.

現在我將談談我們的 N5 和 N3 狀態。

Our N5 technology has already entered risk production with good yield.

我們的N5技術已經進入風險生產，良品率高。

The N5 will adopt the EUV extensively and is well on track for volume production in the first half of next year.

N5將廣泛採用EUV，明年上半年有望量產。

With 80%, 8-0, logic density gain and about a 20% speed gain compared with the 7-nanometer, our N5 technology is true full node stride from our N7.

與 7 納米相比，我們的 N5 技術具有 80%、8-0 的邏輯密度增益和約 20% 的速度增益，是我們 N7 的真正全節點跨度。

We believe it will be the foundry industry's most advanced solution with the best density, performance and power until our 3-nanometer arrives.

我們相信，在我們的 3 納米問世之前，它將成為代工行業最先進的解決方案，具有最佳的密度、性能和功率。

With N5, we are further expanding our customer product portfolio and increasing our addressable market.

通過 N5，我們正在進一步擴展我們的客戶產品組合併擴大我們的潛在市場。

The initial ramp will be driven by both mobile and HPC applications.

最初的斜坡將由移動和 HPC 應用程序驅動。

We are confident that 5-nanometer will have a strong ramp and be a large and long-lasting node for TSMC.

我們有信心 5 納米將有一個強勁的增長，並成為台積電的一個大而持久的節點。

Now I will talk about the N3.

現在我將談論N3。

We are working with customers on N3 and the technology development progress is going well.

我們正在與客戶合作開發 N3，技術開發進展順利。

Our N3 will be another full node from our N5 with PPA gain similar to the gain from N7 to N5.

我們的 N3 將是 N5 的另一個完整節點，其 PPA 增益類似於從 N7 到 N5 的增益。

We expect our 3-nanometer technology will be the most advanced foundry technology in both PPA and transistor technology when it is introduced.

我們預計我們的 3 納米技術在推出時將成為 PPA 和晶體管技術中最先進的代工技術。

Now I will talk about the ramp-up of N7, N7+ and the status of N6.

現在我將談談 N7、N7+ 和 N6 的狀態。

Today, we are completing our second year ramp of N7.

今天，我們正在完成第二年的 N7 坡道。

We continue to see very strong demand across a wide spectrum of products for mobile, HPC and IoT applications.

我們繼續看到對移動、HPC 和物聯網應用的廣泛產品的非常強勁的需求。

Our N7+ is the industry's first commercially available EUV lithography technology.

我們的 N7+ 是業界首個商用 EUV 光刻技術。

N7+ provide 15% to 20% higher density with improved power consumption when compared to N7.

與 N7 相比，N7+ 提供了 15% 到 20% 的更高密度和更低的功耗。

That is already in high volume production with yield similar to N7.

這已經在大批量生產，產量與 N7 相似。

We expect the strong demand for N7+ continue into next year and are increasing Capex to meet this demand for multiple customers.

我們預計對 N7+ 的強勁需求將持續到明年，並且正在增加資本支出以滿足多個客戶的需求。

Now N6.

現在N6。

Our N6 provide a clear migration path for the second-wave N7 product as its design rules are 100% compatible with N7 while providing 18% logic density gain with performance-to-cost advantage.

我們的 N6 為第二波 N7 產品提供了清晰的遷移路徑，因為其設計規則與 N7 100% 兼容，同時提供 18% 的邏輯密度增益和性能成本優勢。

The N6 uses one more EUV layer than N7+.

N6 比 N7+ 多使用一層 EUV。

N6 risk production is scheduled to begin in first quarter next year with volume production starting before the end of 2020.

N6風險生產計劃於明年第一季度開始，2020年底前開始量產。

We reaffirm 7-nanometer will contribute more than 25% of our wafer revenue in 2019 and we expect even higher percentage in 2020 due to worldwide development of 5G, accelerated demand from HPC, mobile and other application continue to grow.

我們重申 2019 年 7 納米將占我們晶圓收入的 25% 以上，由於全球 5G 的發展、HPC、移動和其他應用程序的加速需求持續增長，我們預計 2020 年的比例會更高。

Finally, I will talk about TSMC's advanced packaging business.

最後說說台積電的先進封裝業務。

Our advanced packaging solutions enable system integration with wafer level process, allowing seamless integration of front-end wafer process and back-end chip packaging.

我們先進的封裝解決方案可實現與晶圓級工藝的系統集成，實現前端晶圓工藝和後端芯片封裝的無縫集成。

The solutions consist of CoWoS, InFO, System on Integrated Chips or SoIC and the Wafer on Wafer or WoW.

解決方案包括 CoWoS、InFO、集成芯片上的系統或 SoIC 以及 Wafer on Wafer 或 WoW。

We are seeing strong momentum for CoWoS and InFO for HPC applications as we continue to enlarge the integrated chip area to about -- to above 2 reticle size in 1 module.

我們看到 CoWoS 和 InFO 用於 HPC 應用的強勁勢頭，因為我們繼續將集成芯片面積擴大到大約 - 在 1 個模塊中超過 2 個標線尺寸。

We are also working with a few leading customers on SoIC, which is an industry-leading 3D-IC packaging solution.

我們還與一些領先的客戶合作開發 SoIC，這是一種行業領先的 3D-IC 封裝解決方案。

SoIC enables 3D integration of multiple chips in close proximity to deliver the best possible performance, power and form factor.

SoIC 可實現多個芯片的 3D 集成，以提供最佳的性能、功率和外形尺寸。

We target to start production in 2021 time frame with early adoption by HPC applications.

我們的目標是在 2021 年的時間框架內開始生產，並儘早被 HPC 應用程序採用。

As our industry continues to seek innovation to enhance system level performance, TSMC's differentiating advanced packaging solution will allow us to grow the business at a pace faster than corporate in the next few years.

隨著我們的行業不斷尋求創新以提高系統級性能，台積電的差異化先進封裝解決方案將使我們能夠在未來幾年以比公司更快的速度發展業務。

And thank you for your attention.

並感謝您的關注。

This concludes our prepared statements.

我們準備好的陳述到此結束。

Before we begin the Q&A session, I would like to remind everybody to limit your questions to 2 at a time to allow all participants an opportunity to ask their questions.

在我們開始問答環節之前，我想提醒大家一次將您的問題限制為 2 個，以便所有參與者都有機會提問。

Questions will be taken both from the floor and from the call.

將在現場和電話中提出問題。

Should you wish to raise your questions in Chinese, I will translate it to English before our management answers your question.

如果您想用中文提出問題，我會在管理層回答您的問題之前將其翻譯成英文。

(Operator Instructions) Now we begin.

（操作員說明）現在我們開始。

First, we will have questions coming from Crédit Suisse, Randy Abrams.

首先，我們將有來自瑞士信貸蘭迪艾布拉姆斯的問題。

Good results and outlook.

良好的結果和前景。

Wanted to ask the first question given the high CapEx for this year and next year, if you could talk about the capital requirements for 5-nanometer in EUV.

鑑於今年和明年的高資本支出，想問第一個問題，是否可以談談 EUV 中 5 納米的資本要求。

Maybe how the equation with EUV coming in, how does that affect the capital intensity, or say, the CapEx per thousand wafers?

也許與 EUV 的等式如何出現，這如何影響資本強度，或者說，每千片晶圓的資本支出？

And how do you see this node in terms of pricing and maintaining the same level of profitability than prior nodes?

您如何看待這個節點在定價和保持與之前節點相同水平的盈利能力方面？

Okay.

好的。

So Randy, you're asking about how much EUV accounts for the capital expenditures?

所以蘭迪，你問的是EUV佔資本支出的多少？

Or how EUV changes your capital intensity or CapEx per K. If you're getting some benefits that it's actually lowering that.

或者 EUV 如何改變你的資本密集度或每 K 的資本支出。如果你得到了一些好處，它實際上會降低它。

But given that CapEx is it still the same, you're seeing the higher CapEx per K?

但鑑於資本支出仍然相同，您是否看到每 K 的資本支出更高？

And then how does that translate into profitability?

那麼這如何轉化為盈利能力？

How you expect 5 to compare to, say, some of the prior nodes.

你期望 5 如何與之前的一些節點進行比較。

I cannot talk too much about details.

我不能談論太多細節。

But definitely, CapEx per K for 5 is certainly higher than previous nodes.

但可以肯定的是，5 的每 K 的資本支出肯定高於以前的節點。

However, if we combine everything together, as we said at the beginning, we're still seeing our profit -- structure profitability remains the same.

但是，如果我們將所有內容結合在一起，正如我們一開始所說，我們仍然會看到我們的利潤——結構盈利能力保持不變。

Okay.

好的。

I'll ask one follow-up to that and then a second question.

我會問一個後續問題，然後是第二個問題。

Is this year, like second half, strong demand leading-edge type the gross margin guidance for fourth quarter is still -- it's a good margin, but it's 48% to 50% and I think the target is staying at 50%.

今年，像下半年一樣，強勁的需求前沿型第四季度的毛利率指導仍然是——這是一個不錯的利潤率，但它是 48% 到 50%，我認為目標是保持在 50%。

So maybe if there's still a little bit of drag on the margin?

那麼，如果邊緣仍然有一點阻力？

And with next year bringing in a new node 5, if you think you can get to that 50% for next year.

隨著明年引入新的節點 5，如果您認為明年可以達到 50%。

That's just a follow-up.

那隻是一個後續。

Okay.

好的。

For the fourth quarter, it's just like we stated all along, if we're -- our structural profitability, when we reach 90% of utilization, we target to reach 50% of gross margins.

對於第四季度，就像我們一直所說的那樣，如果我們是結構性盈利能力，當我們達到 90% 的利用率時，我們的目標是達到 50% 的毛利率。

For next year, still early to say, but structural profitability -- or profitability or margins may be affected by the ramp in a 5-nanometer as at the beginning of ramping of every technology nodes, it will somehow be affected.

明年，現在說還為時尚早，但結構盈利能力——或盈利能力或利潤率可能會受到 5 納米斜坡的影響，因為在每個技術節點開始斜坡時，它都會受到影響。

However, if the utilization is good, then we're still expecting to see the structural profitability continues.

但是，如果利用率良好，那麼我們仍然期望看到結構性盈利能力繼續存在。

Okay.

好的。

The second question I wanted to ask because you had a strong third quarter recovery, guiding another good fourth quarter, as you look to maybe an early look at next year, how should we think about seasonality?

我想問的第二個問題是因為第三季度強勁復甦，引導了另一個良好的第四季度，當你展望明年的早期展望時，我們應該如何考慮季節性？

There are some concerns before 5G ramps we have a correction in 4G.

在 5G 升級之前存在一些擔憂，我們對 4G 進行了修正。

And then we have if the tariffs hit, we might have had some prebuild.

如果關稅來襲，我們可能會有一些預建。

So how do you see kind of early year risk of, say, a correction?

那麼你如何看待年初的風險，比如說，修正？

And can you pull in some demand, say, if capacity is tight to maybe mitigate the magnitude of correction early in the year?

你能否拉動一些需求，例如，如果產能緊張，可能會在年初緩解調整幅度？

You're talking about the seasonality of smartphone.

你說的是智能手機的季節性。

That we observe almost every year, and so I don't expect next year to be dramatically different.

我們幾乎每年都會觀察到這一點，所以我預計明年不會有太大的不同。

However, we did see some of the 5G smartphones, the growth momentum is higher than we expected.

但是，我們確實看到了一些 5G 智能手機，增長勢頭高於我們的預期。

So I would expect next year's seasonality is not so strong as we observed for this year.

所以我預計明年的季節性不會像我們今年觀察到的那麼強烈。

But it's too early to say because the market is very dynamic.

但現在說還為時過早，因為市場非常活躍。

Next question will be coming from JPMorgan's Gokul Hariharan.

下一個問題將來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

So first of all, if we look at the history, whenever TSMC has had a step-up in CapEx, that is typically accompanied by a step-up in growth as well.

因此，首先，如果我們回顧歷史，每當台積電資本支出增加時，通常也伴隨著增長的增加。

So just wanted to kind of narrow down a little bit on the 5% to 10% growth, which is still kind of -- the kind of growth that we were expecting when we were spending TWD 10 billion to TWD 11 billion.

所以只是想稍微縮小 5% 到 10% 的增長，這仍然是我們在花費 100 億新台幣到 110 億新台幣時所期望的那種增長。

So could you give a little bit more details or maybe narrow down the forecast a little bit more for us?

那麼，您能否提供更多細節，或者為我們進一步縮小預測範圍？

Because if we say a TWD 14 billion to TWD 15 billion range of CapEx, that's closer to the high 30s or 40% capital intensity, higher than our previous range.

因為如果我們說 140 億新台幣至 150 億新台幣的資本支出範圍，這更接近於 30 年代或 40% 的資本密集度，高於我們之前的範圍。

Gokul, let me answer the question carefully.

Gokul，讓我仔細回答這個問題。

Let's say that TSMC always build capacity, working closely with customer and to meet their demand.

假設台積電一直在建立產能，與客戶密切合作並滿足他們的需求。

That's our number one, okay?

那是我們的第一，好嗎？

We discuss with the customer on their demand, we make our judgment also.

我們與客戶討論他們的需求，我們也做出判斷。

Now we are increasing the CapEx quite a lot, no doubt about it.

現在我們正在大量增加資本支出，這一點毫無疑問。

But then, that's due to some of the reasons I can foresee for the future.

但是，那是由於我可以預見未來的一些原因。

First, the 5G's ramp-up is much faster than 4G as we expected.

首先，5G 的加速比我們預期的 4G 快得多。

Second, TSMC actually is expanding our customer portfolio, and in the same times, we're also expanding our product portfolio.

其次，台積電實際上正在擴大我們的客戶組合，同時我們也在擴大我們的產品組合。

And so put all the factors together, we have a good reason that we increase our CapEx this year and probably next year.

因此，將所有因素放在一起，我們有充分的理由增加今年和可能明年的資本支出。

Okay.

好的。

So that basically suggests that 5% to 10% is not the growth for the next couple of years.

所以這基本上表明 5% 到 10% 不是未來幾年的增長。

But maybe just given the higher growth in 5G and accelerated build-out, could you talk a little bit about going into next year, do you expect 5G and smartphone to be the main growth driver?

但也許只是考慮到 5G 的更高增長和加速建設，你能否談談進入明年，你認為 5G 和智能手機會成為主要的增長動力嗎？

Or do you feel that HPC momentum is going to be even faster than smartphone given that some of your customers are starting to take a lot of market share?

或者，鑑於您的一些客戶開始佔據大量市場份額，您是否認為 HPC 的發展勢頭會比智能手機更快？

To answer your question, actually it's both.

回答你的問題，其實兩者都有。

We expect the smartphone to grow faster than -- I mean that's not in terms of unit, but in terms of silicon content.

我們預計智能手機的增長速度將超過 - 我的意思不是在單位方面，而是在矽含量方面。

And HPC also grow.

並且 HPC 也在增長。

As I said, we are expanding our product portfolio and also our customer portfolio.

正如我所說，我們正在擴大我們的產品組合以及我們的客戶組合。

So the addressable market is increased.

因此，潛在市場增加了。

That's all.

就這樣。

Okay.

好的。

Just a follow-up question.

只是一個後續問題。

I think at the beginning of the year, we had a more conservative view on 5-nanometer build-out.

我認為在今年年初，我們對 5 納米的擴建持更為保守的看法。

Obviously, that view has changed.

顯然，這種觀點已經改變。

So just to calibrate, should we expect now that 5-nanometer revenues next year are likely to be higher than, let's say, 7-nanometer last year, first year of ramp of 7-nanometer?

所以只是為了校準，我們現在是否應該期望明年 5 納米的收入可能會高於去年的 7 納米，即 7 納米的第一年？

I don't want to say exactly what is the percentage.

我不想確切地說百分比是多少。

But let me say that now we have more optimistic than 6 months ago.

但是讓我說，現在我們比6個月前更加樂觀。

Six months ago, I believe what I said is we will be very careful and a little bit conservative in building the 5-nanometer capacity.

六個月前，我相信我所說的是，我們在建設 5 納米容量時會非常小心，也有點保守。

Now we changed to be more aggressive in the 5-nanometer capacity buildup because of we -- as I said, we work closely with customers in both -- all the applications like a smartphone, HPC, now even IoT and automotive.

現在，我們在 5 納米產能建設方面變得更加積極，因為我們——正如我所說，我們與這兩個領域的客戶密切合作——所有應用，如智能手機、HPC，現在甚至是物聯網和汽車。

Next question will be coming from UBS, Bill Lu.

下一個問題將來自瑞銀集團的比爾·盧。

First of all, Mr. Huang, congrats on the new post and looking forward to working with you.

首先，黃總，恭喜新任，期待與您的合作。

Going back to CapEx, given the big increase, can you give us some guidance for modeling depreciation?

回到資本支出，鑑於大幅增加，您能給我們一些關於折舊建模的指導嗎？

Depreciation for this year will be flattish compared with last year because a big chunk of the increase happens in the fourth quarter.

今年的折舊與去年相比將持平，因為大部分增長發生在第四季度。

As to depreciation next year, based on what I just indicated about our capital expenditures for next year, it will be higher.

至於明年的折舊，根據我剛才提到的我們明年的資本支出，它會更高。

However, the detail number or more specifics, we plan to discuss it in January next year.

不過，具體數字還是更具體的，我們計劃明年1月再討論。

So if I look at when the new capacity is going to come online, is it mostly, say, Q2, Q3?

因此，如果我看一下新產能何時上線，主要是 Q2、Q3 嗎？

Is that the right way to think about it?

這是正確的思考方式嗎？

Well, if you look at the tools' lead time, your estimate is very good.

好吧，如果您查看工具的交貨時間，您的估計非常好。

Q2, Q3 time.

Q2、Q3時間。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

Dr. Wei, for 7-nanometers, obviously demand looks quite good.

魏博士，對於7納米，顯然需求看起來相當不錯。

Can you give us some guidance for 7-nano as a percentage of revenues by end of next year?

你能給我們一些關於明年年底 7 納米佔收入百分比的指導嗎？

Higher than this year.

高於今年。

Next question will be coming from Citigroup's Roland Shu.

下一個問題將來自花旗集團的 Roland Shu。

First, congrats for the very good result in 3Q.

首先，恭喜第三季度取得了非常好的成績。

And I think our first question is you talked about next year for 5G smartphone will be the key growth driver.

我認為我們的第一個問題是您談到明年 5G 智能手機將成為關鍵的增長動力。

So also you talked about not only because of unit growth, but also for the semiconductor content increase.

所以你也談到不僅是因為單位增長，還因為半導體含量的增加。

So do you have the number for the dollar content per 5G smartphone compared to your 4G?

那麼，與您的 4G 相比，您有每部 5G 智能手機的美元內容數量嗎？

Let the CFO to answer this.

讓首席財務官來回答這個問題。

The answer is we don't have that number.

答案是我們沒有那個號碼。

But if you compare to the 4G, where does the increase come from?

但是如果和4G相比，增長從何而來？

Is it because from this bigger die size or because of more semiconductor silicon?

是因為這個更大的芯片尺寸還是因為更多的半導體矽？

Or I think you probably have an assessment more or less, right?

或者我認為你可能或多或少有一個評估，對吧？

We do have some assessment, to be frank with you, because we know the die size, we know the number of the chips inside.

坦率地說，我們確實有一些評估，因為我們知道裸片尺寸，我們知道裡面的芯片數量。

I give you some of that -- the feeling.

我給你一些——感覺。

We are using the more advanced technologies so the die size increase on the leading edge is not so much, but it did increase because of more functionality, you can expect that people put AI application inside or those kind of things.

我們正在使用更先進的技術，因此前沿芯片尺寸的增加並沒有那麼多，但由於更多的功能，它確實增加了，你可以期待人們將人工智能應用程序放入其中或類似的東西。

More important, as the last time I believe I already mentioned that camera, for one example, now you can see more and more camera in smartphone, especially the high-end smartphone.

更重要的是，我相信我上次已經提到過相機，例如，現在您可以在智能手機中看到越來越多的相機，尤其是高端智能手機。

And also the more resolution, the one will take silicon's real estate to -- from 12, what is that, 20 megapixel to 40 megapixel.

而且分辨率越高，矽的空間就越多——從 12 像素到 20 兆像素到 40 兆像素。

So more camera, higher resolution, more pixel.

所以更多的相機，更高的分辨率，更多的像素。

And then also you need a lot of power management IC to control the power consumption because of 5G, they consume a lot of power.

然後你還需要大量的電源管理IC來控制功耗，因為5G，它們消耗大量的電力。

So your power management IC has to be more advanced, so you put more power management IC inside.

所以你的電源管理IC必須更先進，所以你要在裡面放更多的電源管理IC。

And then you are talking about more channel in the communication, so the RF front-end, the transceiver, everything.

然後你在談論更多的通信通道，所以射頻前端、收發器，一切。

You have not only the die size will increase actually to adopt the more channel.

你不僅芯片尺寸會增加實際採用更多的通道。

So it's even -- move into the higher leading-edge technology also.

所以它甚至 - 也進入更高的前沿技術。

So I guess for the high end phone, probably the dollar content will increase more, right?

所以我猜對於高端手機，可能美元含量會增加更多，對吧？

So for your -- the total 5G smartphone unit forecast to be about mid-teens of the total shipment.

因此，對於您而言，5G 智能手機的總出貨量預計約為總出貨量的 10 倍左右。

So do you have this 5G smartphone breakdown by high end, mid and low end?

那麼你有這款 5G 智能手機的高端、中端和低端細分嗎？

We'll talk about it in January.

我們將在一月份討論它。

Okay.

好的。

My second question is now we are ramping up N7+ fastly.

我的第二個問題是現在我們正在快速升級 N7+。

So is N7+ gross margin going to be very different from N7 we are enjoying now?

那麼，N7+ 的毛利率會與我們現在享受的 N7 大不相同嗎？

It's very close.

它非常接近。

Okay.

好的。

And how about for N7+, is this going to take 7 to 8 quarters to bring up the gross margin to corporate average?

那麼對於 N7+ 來說，這需要 7 到 8 個季度才能將毛利率提高到企業平均水平嗎？

Let me take that.

讓我接受。

We look at 7, 7+ and 10 as a big node.

我們將 7、7+ 和 10 視為一個大節點。

So from that point of view, N7 nodes actually has reached corporate margins.

所以從這個角度來看，N7 節點實際上已經達到了企業利潤。

Okay.

好的。

I think just a follow-up for -- I know you don't comment on the ASP, but for the same amount of the wafer shipment on N7+, is this going to contribute more revenue upside to TSMC?

我認為只是後續行動——我知道你不對 ASP 發表評論，但對於 N7+ 上相同數量的晶圓出貨量，這是否會為台積電貢獻更多的收入增長？

You just mentioned we don't.

你剛才提到我們沒有。

No, I talk about revenue.

不，我說的是收入。

I don't talk about ASP.

我不談論 ASP。

That's the same thing.

那是一樣的。

Next question will be coming from CLSA's Sebastian Hou.

下一個問題將來自里昂證券的 Sebastian Hou。

My first question is to -- I want to ask about the CapEx intensity.

我的第一個問題是——我想問一下資本支出強度。

So with the hike in this year CapEx, so apparently we can do the math that if this capex-to-sales will go up to shoot over 40% this year.

因此，隨著今年資本支出的增加，顯然我們可以計算一下，如果今年資本支出對銷售額的增幅將超過 40%。

So how do you see this trend into 2020?

那麼您如何看待這種趨勢到 2020 年？

And then is there any updated guidance on the CapEx intensity going forward versus prior guidance?

然後是否有任何關於未來資本支出強度與先前指導的更新指導？

Okay.

好的。

Yes.

是的。

As you just mentioned, you can calculate the CapEx intensity this year will be over 40%.

正如您剛才提到的，您可以計算出今年的資本支出強度將超過 40%。

At the same time, as we indicated that next year's CapEx, although preliminary, is about the same level as this year and we also see strong demand for our business next year, our CapEx intensity will be lower next year.

同時，正如我們所指出的，明年的資本支出雖然是初步的，但與今年大致相同，而且我們也看到明年對我們業務的強勁需求，我們明年的資本支出強度將會降低。

And what -- from what we can see at this moment, it will then gradually come down to probably between 30% or 35% level going in -- after next year.

還有什麼——從我們目前看到的情況來看，明年之後它會逐漸下降到可能在 30% 或 35% 之間的水平。

So we are not seeing going to 30% to 35% range in 2020 yet?

所以我們還沒有看到 2020 年達到 30% 到 35% 的範圍嗎？

In a couple of years after 2020.

2020年後的幾年。

But could potentially next year?

但明年有可能嗎？

You just -- you don't want to talk about that right now?

你只是——你現在不想談論這個？

Right.

正確的。

The potential of capital intensity, you mean?

資本密集度的潛力，你是說？

In other words, you're mid-30s by 2020?

換句話說，到 2020 年你已經 30 多歲了？

It's lower than 40%.

它低於 40%。

Okay.

好的。

Second question is on the gross profit margin.

第二個問題是毛利率。

I recall that a couple of quarters or 2 quarters ago in the first half this year when TSMC pound the table saying that we are past the bottom, we are seeing the strong rebound in second half this year and also expect the gross margin will go back to 50% level second half.

記得今年上半年幾個季度或兩個季度，台積電敲桌子說我們已經過了谷底，我們看到今年下半年強勁反彈，也預計毛利率會回升下半年達到50%的水平。

And indeed, now we see the utilization rate coming at -- coming back, revenue coming back in second half as expected.

事實上，現在我們看到利用率正在回升，下半年的收入如預期的那樣回升。

But it looks like the gross margin is lagging a little bit compared to if you -- yes, compared to the revenue direction.

但看起來毛利率與你相比有點滯後 - 是的，與收入方向相比。

So can you explain what are these factors that driving gross margin recovery behind the revenue recovery?

那麼您能否解釋一下這些推動收入恢復背後毛利率恢復的因素是什麼？

Yes, I think you're talking about the third quarter gross margins.

是的，我認為您在談論第三季度的毛利率。

Whenever there's a big jump up in utilization quarter-over-quarter, there will be a negative hit on gross margins.

每當利用率環比大幅上升時，毛利率就會受到負面影響。

It's called the inventory revaluation.

這稱為庫存重估。

I think -- I believe we mentioned about this some time ago.

我想——我相信我們前段時間提到過這個。

So yes, as you can imagine, the utilization in the third quarter is much higher than that in the second quarter.

所以是的，你可以想像，第三季度的利用率遠高於第二季度。

And therefore, there is an element of negative inventory valuation happen in the third quarter.

因此，第三季度存在負庫存估值的因素。

The amount is slightly over 1 percentage point, okay?

金額略高於1個百分點，好嗎？

Now if utilization remains at similar level, that factor will not happen.

現在，如果利用率保持在相似水平，那麼該因素將不會發生。

Okay.

好的。

But when we're looking at the fourth quarter gross margin guidance, I know the high end will reach the 50%.

但當我們查看第四季度毛利率指導時，我知道高端將達到 50%。

But it still looks like the -- it's ranging between 48% to 50%.

但它看起來仍然像 - 它在 48% 到 50% 之間。

So I mean there is still a chance for coming to go back to 50%, but it looks like the midpoint doesn't reach that yet.

所以我的意思是仍有機會回到 50%，但看起來中點還沒有達到。

So I think not just about 3Q, but also the fourth quarter.

所以我認為不僅僅是第三季度，還有第四季度。

Yes.

是的。

As I mentioned earlier, I -- our structure profitability remains the same, i.e, if we reach 90% of utilization, we are targeting 50% of gross margins.

正如我之前提到的，我們的結構盈利能力保持不變，即如果我們達到 90% 的利用率，我們的目標是 50% 的毛利率。

Next question will be coming from Morgan Stanley's Charlie Chan.

下一個問題將來自摩根士丹利的查理陳。

Congratulations for very good, strong results.

祝賀你取得了非常好的、強有力的結果。

So sorry to keep coming back to this question.

很抱歉一直回到這個問題。

So it seems you are raising kind of long-term CapEx outlook including next year.

因此，您似乎正在提高包括明年在內的長期資本支出前景。

Why don't you just revise up your revenue CAGR assumption.

你為什麼不直接修改你的收入複合年增長率假設。

I think 5% to 10% revenue should be too conservative.

我認為 5% 到 10% 的收入應該太保守了。

Can you comment on that part?

你能評論那部分嗎？

It's not about time to change that target.

現在不是改變目標的時候。

I would say still 5% to 10%, but it's in the upper side.

我會說仍然是 5% 到 10%，但它在上邊。

Okay.

好的。

I can say.

我可以說。

All right.

好的。

Yes.

是的。

And another on this capital intensity question is about the payback period, right?

關於這個資本密集度問題的另一個問題是關於投資回收期，對吧？

Because for me I still cannot add up why your structural profitability can remain the same whereas your capital intensity increased so much, right?

因為對我來說，我仍然無法總結為什麼你的結構盈利能力可以保持不變而你的資本密集度增加了這麼多，對吧？

So in other way, can you just comment about the payback period for your 7-nanometer and 5-nanometer investment you said becoming longer going forward?

那麼，在其他方面，您能否就您所說的 7 納米和 5 納米投資的投資回收期發表評論？

I remember this topic was discussed last time and I think our answer was that we don't look at payback period.

我記得上次討論過這個話題，我認為我們的回答是我們不考慮投資回收期。

We do look at return on invested capital.

我們確實關注投資資本回報率。

And from that part, we don't see that big a difference with the advanced technologies.

從那部分來看，我們並沒有看到與先進技術有那麼大的區別。

Okay.

好的。

And my next question is about the advanced packaging.

我的下一個問題是關於先進封裝的。

I remember in the previous quarters, you commented advanced packaging should outgrow the front-end business.

我記得在前幾個季度，您評論說高級封裝應該超過前端業務。

So first of all, is this remains the same trend?

那麼首先，這是否仍然是相同的趨勢？

And also how about the potential margin dilution from the packaging business?

包裝業務潛在的利潤稀釋又如何？

The forecast on the advanced packaging business, the growth is -- the growth rate is still faster than silicon growth rate.

對先進封裝業務的預測，增長是——增長速度仍然快於矽的增長速度。

The wafer's revenues growth rate stays the same, okay?

晶圓的收入增長率保持不變，好嗎？

Still that statement is still valid.

儘管如此，該聲明仍然有效。

The gross margin, that's another consideration.

毛利率，這是另一個考慮因素。

The gross margin of the back-end business actually is lower today, still lower than the wafer margin.

後端業務的毛利率今天實際上更低，仍然低於晶圓毛利率。

But we look at it whether it's a good business to go or not on 2 factors.

但我們會根據兩個因素來看待它是否是一項好生意。

One, we really want to support our customer to improve their system performance.

一，我們真的想支持我們的客戶提高他們的系統性能。

So we have to do it because of TSMC is the only one company right now who can support customers' advanced packaging.

所以我們必須這樣做，因為台積電是目前唯一一家可以支持客戶先進封裝的公司。

Second actually is the CapEx intensity on the back end, and that's advanced packaging business, is smaller.

其次實際上是後端的資本支出強度，即先進封裝業務，較小。

And so the asset turnover is better.

所以資產周轉更好。

So put all in all together, we still think it's a very good business to pursue.

所以總而言之，我們仍然認為這是一項非常好的業務。

Yes.

是的。

And last one, this is a quick one maybe for CFO.

最後一個，這對於首席財務官來說可能很快。

Because you revised up your CapEx, right, so what is the free cash flow trend in the coming quarters?

因為您修改了資本支出，對，那麼未來幾個季度的自由現金流趨勢是什麼？

I guess we want to know potential -- the next potential quarterly dividend hike.

我想我們想知道潛力——下一次潛在的季度股息上漲。

What would be the timing?

時機是什麼？

Let me just answer it by saying that we will not lower our dividends quarter-on-quarter basis.

讓我回答說我們不會按季度降低股息。

So investor will get at least the same amount, if not more, compared to previous quarter or compared to previous year.

因此，與上一季度或與上一年相比，投資者將至少獲得相同的金額，如果不是更多的話。

Okay.

好的。

How about the base, I mean, the free cash flow projection?

我的意思是，自由現金流預測的基礎如何？

Do you have the number for coming quarters?

你有未來幾個季度的號碼嗎？

Yes.

是的。

We do.

我們的確是。

But I don't think that really matters to your question.

但我認為這對你的問題並不重要。

If I may, I would like to remind Charlie that today, all our shareholders are getting the $2 per share dividends today going into their bank account.

如果可以的話，我想提醒查理，今天，我們所有的股東今天都將每股 2 美元的股息存入他們的銀行賬戶。

And we have already announced that the next quarter -- quarterly dividend is going to be $2.50.

我們已經宣布下一季度 - 季度股息將為 2.50 美元。

So it has already gone up.

所以已經漲了。

Next question will be coming from Goldman Sachs, Bruce Lu.

下一個問題將來自高盛的布魯斯·盧。

Can I ask, what is your 5G penetration forecast about 6 months ago?

請問，您對 6 個月前的 5G 普及率預測是多少？

5G smartphone penetration forecast 6 months ago.

6 個月前的 5G 智能手機普及率預測。

Six months ago, we don't see the 5G smartphone will be any significant amount for this year.

六個月前，我們認為今年的 5G 智能手機數量不會很大。

And so...

所以...

No.

不。

I mean, 6 months ago, what's your forecast for 5G smartphone shipment in 2020?

我的意思是，6 個月前，您對 2020 年 5G 智能手機的出貨量有什麼預測？

Oh, single digit.

哦，單數。

So basically, you increase it from single digit to mid-teens?

所以基本上，你把它從個位數增加到十幾歲？

Mid-teens.

中年。

Yes.

是的。

For the past 6 months?

過去 6 個月？

Yes.

是的。

Can you tell us what is the rationale behind your changes?

你能告訴我們你改變背後的理由是什麼嗎？

Because for the past 6 months, we still have a lot of concern for the 5G smartphone such as NSA/SA that the specs not finalized, the cost structure is getting a lot higher, global telcos they are not as aggressive.

因為在過去的 6 個月裡，我們對 NSA/SA 等規格尚未最終確定的 5G 智能手機仍有很多擔憂，成本結構越來越高，全球電信公司也沒有那麼激進。

So can you -- because from single-digit to mid-teens, which is the big changes.

你也可以——因為從個位數到十幾歲，這是很大的變化。

Right.

正確的。

It's a big change.

這是一個很大的變化。

And all I can say is whether it's NSA, SA or those kind of 5G's base station installation, we work with our customer.

我只能說，無論是 NSA、SA 還是那種 5G 的基站安裝，我們都與客戶合作。

Actually, we listen to them.

事實上，我們聽他們的。

And they also have their own customer to consider.

他們也有自己的客戶需要考慮。

And so some of the areas in the world, they accelerated 5G's deployment and that's why its result as compared with 6 months ago, we did not see this momentum.

所以世界上的一些地區，他們加速了5G的部署，這就是為什麼它的結果與6個月前相比，我們沒有看到這種勢頭。

But then in these 6 months, the momentum has grown bigger and bigger and so that's why we -- I cannot give you the specific number of which country or which region, but we can see the momentum continue to grow.

但是在這 6 個月裡，勢頭越來越大，這就是為什麼我們——我不能告訴你具體是哪個國家或哪個地區，但我們可以看到勢頭繼續增長。

And now our own estimate had almost doubled.

現在我們自己的估計幾乎翻了一番。

But the concern is still there from a lot of investors, such as the NSA or SA because you still cannot see the clear indication from -- at the end of the day from the telcos, right?

但是很多投資者的擔憂仍然存在，比如 NSA 或 SA，因為你仍然看不到來自電信公司的明確指示，對吧？

So that's why we are a bit surprised to see these kind of meaningful changes, right?

所以這就是為什麼我們看到這些有意義的變化有點驚訝，對吧？

Yes.

是的。

I have no way to comment on the carrier how they think about this kind of 5G deployment.

我無法評論運營商如何看待這種 5G 部署。

But they are moving ahead and -- for the 5G application, especially some of the big countries.

但他們正在向前邁進——對於 5G 應用，尤其是一些大國。

That's what we see.

這就是我們所看到的。

Okay.

好的。

My next question is that we always rely on management to comment about the fabless inventories.

我的下一個問題是，我們總是依靠管理層來評論無晶圓廠庫存。

I mean you always talk about that.

我的意思是你總是談論這個。

But moving forward, your top 2 customer, it might account for 30%, 40% of your business pretty soon.

但展望未來，您的前 2 大客戶可能很快就會占到您業務的 30%、40%。

And they might account for 70%, 80% of your advanced geometry and they don't really report their inventory anyway.

他們可能佔您高級幾何的 70%、80%，而且他們並沒有真正報告他們的庫存。

So how -- can you give us something -- some other indicator for us to judge the industry growth or judge the inventory level for the industry?

那麼如何——你能給我們一些其他的指標來判斷行業增長或判斷行業的庫存水平？

Judge for the industry level, we -- the fabless company is still one of the big factor that we consider.

從行業層面來看，我們——無晶圓廠公司仍然是我們考慮的重要因素之一。

As for my customers, actually for TSMC more importantly, we really work with our customers closely, so I'm not going to give you the exact number of my big customers' inventory, but we work with them.

至於我的客戶，實際上對台積電來說更重要的是，我們真的與客戶密切合作，所以我不會給你我的大客戶庫存的確切數量，但我們會與他們合作。

Believe me, we very closely work together so we understand their strategy and their inventory.

相信我，我們密切合作，了解他們的戰略和庫存。

That's why I wanted you to give us some hint, right?

這就是為什麼我想讓你給我們一些暗示，對吧？

We cannot just tell my investors that we have to trust TSMC.

我們不能只告訴我的投資者我們必須信任台積電。

Even though I say that all the time but...

雖然我一直這麼說，但是...

You can trust TSMC.

你可以信任台積電。

No doubt about it.

毫無疑問。

All right.

好的。

I think this is probably about the right time that we go to the lines for questions.

我認為這可能是我們去排隊提問的正確時間。

I think there are quite a few analysts waiting on the line for questions.

我認為有不少分析師在排隊等待提問。

So operator, could you please go to the first person on the line?

接線員，請您去找第一個人好嗎？

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Yes.

是的。

We have questions from Brett Simpson from Arete Research.

我們有來自 Arete Research 的 Brett Simpson 的問題。

I had a question really on China.

我真的有一個關於中國的問題。

I guess in the last couple of years, we've seen the business double with Chinese customers.

我想在過去的幾年裡，我們看到中國客戶的業務翻了一番。

I guess at the moment, it's pretty clear you're going through a very healthy inflection point in the Chinese customers at the moment.

我想目前，很明顯你正在經歷中國客戶的一個非常健康的拐點。

So can you talk about how you see this part of the business evolving over the next 1 or 2 years?

那麼，您能否談談您如何看待這部分業務在未來 1 或 2 年的發展？

And then I guess from a planning perspective, are you concerned that the rise of your China business comes at the sacrifice of other customers, particularly U.S. companies?

然後我想從規劃的角度來看，你是否擔心你的中國業務的崛起是以犧牲其他客戶，尤其是美國公司為代價的？

Can you repeat the question?

你能重複一下這個問題嗎？

Brett, your question is with respect to the business we derive from China as you have observed that our business has doubled in the last couple of years from China.

Brett，您的問題是關於我們從中國獲得的業務，因為您觀察到我們的業務在過去幾年中從中國翻了一番。

And you would like to see the outlook for our business in China in the next 1 to 2 years.

您希望看到我們在未來 1 到 2 年在中國的業務前景。

And also the strong growth coming from China, whether it is coming at the expense of our other customers in other regions.

還有來自中國的強勁增長，無論它是以犧牲我們在其他地區的其他客戶為代價的。

Well, we did see the strong growth from China because that's a very big market, especially in the semiconductor area.

嗯，我們確實看到了中國的強勁增長，因為這是一個非常大的市場，尤其是在半導體領域。

And we are happy to see that growth, and TSMC is offering the most leading-edge technology to support our customer in China.

我們很高興看到這種增長，台積電正在提供最前沿的技術來支持我們在中國的客戶。

And so to be exact, we are going to grow with the China market.

準確地說，我們將與中國市場一起成長。

At the expense of other customer, the answer is no because we support all the customer with all our strength and our capacity.

以犧牲其他客戶為代價，答案是否定的，因為我們全力支持所有客戶。

Okay.

好的。

And maybe just a follow-up on 5-nanometer specifically.

也許只是對 5 納米的跟進。

I guess maybe you can talk about whether you think the ramp of the 5-nanometer will be similar to prior nodes in wafer terms or revenue.

我想也許你可以談談你是否認為 5 納米的斜坡在晶圓或收入方面會類似於之前的節點。

How should we think about the ramp-up, particularly as you get through into the second half of 2020?

我們應該如何看待增長，尤其是在您進入 2020 年下半年的時候？

And on your CapEx increase, I think you've said in the past you want to -- you plan to grow -- you've been quite consistent.

在你的資本支出增加方面，我認為你過去曾說過你想要 - 你計劃增長 - 你一直非常一致。

You want to grow your top line 5% to 10%, but your capital intensity to support that growth would be around about 30 or maybe even low 40s as a percent of sales.

您希望將您的收入增長 5% 到 10%，但您支持該增長的資本密集度將在銷售額的 30% 左右，甚至可能低於 40%。

Now you're stepping up your capital intensity significantly, but you're not changing your growth outlook.

現在你正在顯著提高你的資本密集度，但你並沒有改變你的增長前景。

Can you perhaps just explain the thinking there?

你能解釋一下那裡的想法嗎？

So first part of the question is with respect to 5-nanometer ramp, whether the ramp profile next year will be similar to our prior nodes' ramp profile.

所以問題的第一部分是關於 5 納米斜坡，明年的斜坡輪廓是否會類似於我們之前節點的斜坡輪廓。

The second question is related to the substantial increase in the CapEx.

第二個問題與資本支出的大幅增加有關。

Because in the past, TSMC has indeed said that we could have $10 billion to $12 billion CapEx to support a 5% to 10% CAGR.

因為在過去，台積電確實說過我們可以擁有 100 億到 120 億美元的資本支出來支持 5% 到 10% 的複合年增長率。

Now our CapEx is substantially higher than the $10 billion to $12 billion.

現在我們的資本支出大大高於 100 億至 120 億美元。

And therefore, does that mean that it's going to support a much higher CAGR on the revenue growth?

因此，這是否意味著它將支持更高的收入增長複合年增長率？

Well, let me answer the first question first, the 5-nanometer's ramp for next year.

好吧，讓我先回答第一個問題，明年的 5 納米坡道。

Certainly as compared with 6 months ago, we are right now more aggressive and more optimistic about it.

當然，與6個月前相比，我們現在更加積極和樂觀。

And hopefully, because we spend big money, hopefully, that it will ramp up much in terms of revenue, be much faster than 7-nanometer.

希望，因為我們花了很多錢，希望它能在收入方面大幅增加，比 7 納米快得多。

In next January, we are going to talk about it more.

在明年一月，我們將更多地談論它。

And so that also answers the second question, that we spend -- we increased the CapEx quite a lot, of course, from $10 billion to $11 billion to about $14 billion to $15 billion.

這也回答了第二個問題，即我們的支出——我們將資本支出增加了很多，當然，從 100 億美元到 110 億美元，再到大約 140 億美元到 150 億美元。

With that money, we spend to buy the tools to prepare everything.

有了這筆錢，我們花錢購買工具來準備一切。

We do expect that our growth will go beyond 5% to 10%.

我們確實預計我們的增長將超過 5% 到 10%。

But right now, we are not ready to change that long-term 5-year's target yet.

但現在，我們還沒有準備好改變那個長期的 5 年目標。

However, we are working on that.

但是，我們正在努力。

Operator, please go to the next caller on the line.

接線員，請轉到線路上的下一個呼叫者。

Your question comes from the line of Mehdi Hosseini from SIG.

您的問題來自 SIG 的 Mehdi Hosseini。

A couple of follow-ups.

幾個後續。

When you made the reference to 5G, how should we think about opportunities from the networking, specifically base station?

當您提到 5G 時，我們應該如何考慮網絡的機會，特別是基站？

Thanks for the detailed color on the smartphone units, you expect a mid-teen penetration.

感謝智能手機單元的詳細顏色，您預計會有中等青少年的滲透率。

But how would you quantify opportunities from the networking, specifically base station?

但是您將如何量化來自網絡的機會，特別是基站？

And I have a couple of follow-ups.

我有幾個後續行動。

So Mehdi, your question is that although we have talked about 5G smartphone units for next year, but you would like for our management to talk about the 5G base station business next year.

Mehdi，你的問題是，雖然我們已經討論了明年的 5G 智能手機，但你希望我們的管理層討論明年的 5G 基站業務。

Actually, the networking is fundamental for the 5G's infrastructure.

實際上，網絡是 5G 基礎設施的基礎。

And because of its shorter wavelength, so that you can expect that the base station will be much more than 4G's base station under SA or even the -- for the NSA's implement.

並且由於它的波長更短，所以你可以預計，該基站將遠遠超過 SA 下的 4G 基站，甚至是——為 NSA 實施的。

So we expect the networking processor will be much higher.

所以我們預計網絡處理器會更高。

The opportunity will dramatically increase.

機會將大大增加。

Whether it is exactly for the number, we don't have an exact number right now.

無論是確切的數字，我們現在都沒有確切的數字。

Is networking included in the HPC category?

網絡是否包含在 HPC 類別中？

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

So the reason I ask this question is if your customers are building specifically a 5G smartphone, could opportunities in networking actually help offset any downside risk to excess inventory built on the smartphone?

因此，我問這個問題的原因是，如果您的客戶正在專門製造 5G 智能手機，那麼聯網機會實際上是否有助於抵消智能手機上構建的過多庫存的任何下行風險？

I think, Mehdi, you are asking whether or not the increasing demand in the networking side will offset the higher inventory or the inventory correction on the smartphone side.

我認為，Mehdi，您是在問網絡方面不斷增長的需求是否會抵消智能手機方面的更高庫存或庫存修正。

Is that your question?

那是你的問題嗎？

Yes.

是的。

If there is an inventory, I'm trying to understand how networking could offset any risk of inventory built.

如果有庫存，我試圖了解網絡如何抵消任何建立庫存的風險。

I did not catch what you say.

我沒聽懂你說什麼。

The relation between the networking or the base stations are set up with the 5G smartphones inventory.

網絡或基站之間的關係是通過 5G 智能手機庫存建立的。

Sorry, let me clarify.

對不起，讓我澄清一下。

I think one of the concerns among the investment community is, yes, there is a very strong build plans for the 5G smartphone, but the risk is these phones are too expensive and perhaps there is a risk that your customers' build plans are too aggressive.

我認為投資界的一個擔憂是，是的，5G 智能手機有一個非常強大的構建計劃，但風險是這些手機太貴了，而且可能存在您客戶的構建計劃過於激進的風險.

In that context, could opportunities on the networking side be large enough for TSMC to help alleviate any downside risk on the phone -- or excess inventory on the phone side?

在這種情況下，網絡方面的機會是否足以讓台積電幫助緩解手機的任何下行風險——或者手機方面的過剩庫存？

Oh, I see.

哦，我明白了。

Okay.

好的。

Let me repeat your questions.

讓我重複你的問題。

You say that my customers are making the smartphone quite a large number.

你說我的客戶正在大量生產智能手機。

If the base station or networking did not catch up, is that smartphone going to be inventory?

如果基站或網絡沒有趕上，那智能手機會成為庫存嗎？

The answer is no because of the 5G's application will be implemented.

答案是否定的，因為 5G 的應用將會實施。

And you bought a 5G smartphone, you still can use 4G's functionality, by the way.

順便說一句，你買了一部 5G 智能手機，你仍然可以使用 4G 的功能。

So it won't be a kind of inventory as you mentioned about it provided you have just not enough 5G's base station.

因此，只要您沒有足夠的 5G 基站，它就不會是您提到的那種庫存。

So Mehdi, I think what C.C. is saying is that you don't have to worry too much about 5G smartphone inventory because there will be sufficient demand to take up those products.

所以 Mehdi，我認為 C.C.就是說，你不必太擔心 5G 智能手機的庫存，因為會有足夠的需求來佔用這些產品。

Yes.

是的。

And then just a real quick follow-up.

然後只是一個真正的快速跟進。

In the past, you have talked about advanced packaging accounting for high single digit of overall revenue in 2019 and that mix would grow into the teens in the next decade.

過去，您曾談到先進封裝在 2019 年佔總收入的高個位數，並且這種組合將在未來十年增長到十幾歲。

Are those targets remain intact?

這些目標是否完好無損？

Advanced packaging used to account for about high single-digit percent of TSMC's revenue.

先進封裝過去佔台積電收入的大約個位數百分比。

Mehdi's question is, will that continue to increase to maybe high teens of TSMC's revenue?

Mehdi 的問題是，這會繼續增加到台積電收入的十幾倍嗎？

It will continue to increase, but it's not a high teens.

它會繼續增加，但它不是一個高青少年。

It's still the high single digit, but the growth rate is higher than the silicon wafer's growth rate.

仍然是高個位數，但增長率高於矽片的增長率。

Okay.

好的。

And is cryptocurrency stable?

加密貨幣穩定嗎？

Should we be concerned that maybe some of this growth is driven by crypto?

我們是否應該擔心這種增長的一部分是由加密驅動的？

Or do you see crypto as pretty stable and minimal downside risk?

還是您認為加密貨幣非常穩定且下行風險最小？

All right.

好的。

You are talking about cryptocurrency mining.

您正在談論加密貨幣挖掘。

We did see the Bitcoin's prices increase starting from this year until now.

從今年到現在，我們確實看到了比特幣的價格上漲。

However, let me state TSMC's policy and strategy.

但是，讓我來說明台積電的政策和戰略。

We will support cryptocurrency mining as a business with available capacity.

我們將支持加密貨幣挖掘作為具有可用容量的業務。

That's what we will say.

這就是我們要說的。

We are not going to be adding more CapEx for that.

我們不會為此增加更多的資本支出。

Operator, could you please go to the next caller on the line?

接線員，請您轉接電話中的下一個呼叫者好嗎？

Your next question comes from the line of Sangam Iyer from Consilium.

您的下一個問題來自 Consilium 的 Sangam Iyer。

I just want to understand, given the different developments that are happening in Hong Kong and the elections that you're having in Taiwan next semester -- next calendar year, do you see that you might have to revisit the CapEx plan given the trade war and the intensity of the trade wars that are increasing?

我只是想了解，鑑於香港正在發生的不同事態發展以及下學期台灣即將舉行的選舉——下個日曆年，你是否認為鑑於貿易戰，你可能需要重新審視資本支出計劃以及正在增加的貿易戰的強度？

You think about the trade war between the 2 big countries, is that going to affect TSMC's CapEx plan?

你想想兩個大國之間的貿易戰，這會影響台積電的資本支出計劃嗎？

We...

我們...

Yes, in terms of...

是的，就...而言

In terms of Hong Kong situation or what do you think about it?

就香港的情況而言，你怎麼看？

Let me say again, TSMC builds capacity working closely with customer to meet customers' demand and our own judgment.

讓我再說一遍，台積電與客戶緊密合作建立產能，以滿足客戶的需求和我們自己的判斷。

We did not put that kind of trade tension in the world into consideration, although we think that any trade tension or trade war between any countries will have a negative impact to the semiconductor industry.

我們沒有考慮到世界上的那種貿易緊張局勢，儘管我們認為任何國家之間的任何貿易緊張或貿易戰都會對半導體行業產生負面影響。

Did I answer your question?

我回答你的問題了嗎？

Right.

正確的。

But I mean there's no -- so hypothetically, if you were to believe that in the election that comes in -- presidential election in January, if things were to go towards the party that's in more favor of a one-state kind of thing, would that have an incremental impact in terms of how the trade war is seen from TSMC's perspective?

但我的意思是，如果你相信在即將到來的選舉中 - 一月份的總統選舉，如果事情朝著更傾向於一州一州的政黨發展，從台積電的角度來看，這是否會對貿易戰產生增量影響？

No, we don't think so.

不，我們不這麼認為。

Even we have general election in the next January, that won't affect TSMC's strategy.

即使明年一月有大選，也不會影響台積電的策略。

That will -- because of -- we can -- we do the business according to the demand, according to the market situation and have very little impact from the politics in Taiwan.

那將 - 因為 - 我們可以 - 我們根據需求，根據市場情況來做生意，並且受到台灣政治的影響很小。

Did I answer the question?

我回答問題了嗎？

Good to hear that.

很高興聽到。

And sir, finally -- yes.

先生，最後——是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

To a large extent, yes.

在很大程度上，是的。

That was helpful.

那很有幫助。

And so one more thing, sir.

還有一件事，先生。

In terms of the 5G CapEx that we have been talking about, so there have been -- on the high-speed HPC segment, there have been delays in terms of the next node coming through from your last customer.

就我們一直在談論的 5G 資本支出而言，在高速 HPC 領域，從您的最後一個客戶通過的下一個節點方面出現了延遲。

When you see that your 5G rollout is moving pretty strong and also the HPC demand pick up strongly, is there any indication from the customers that the launch on the next node is going to be pretty soon?

當您看到您的 5G 部署非常強勁並且 HPC 需求強勁回升時，客戶是否有任何跡象表明下一個節點上的發布將很快到來？

What gives us visibility here?

是什麼讓我們在這裡可見？

Let me try to see if I understand your question.

讓我試試看我是否理解你的問題。

You are asking us about the visibility of our customers' demand for our next node technology, how much visibility we have with respect to seeing the demand from them for the next node.

您在詢問我們客戶對我們的下一個節點技術的需求的可見性，我們在看到他們對下一個節點的需求方面有多少可見性。

Right.

正確的。

Next node, you're mentioning about 5-nanometer and 3-nanometer?

下一個節點，您是在提到 5 納米和 3 納米嗎？

5-nanometer.

5納米。

5-nanometer for now.

目前是 5 納米。

Let's say 5-nanometer.

比方說5納米。

Judging from we increased the CapEx for the 5-nanometer, you know our position and you know our forecast on the 5-nanometer's business.

從我們增加 5 納米的資本支出來看，您知道我們的立場，也知道我們對 5 納米業務的預測。

So it will be good.

所以會很好。

And I cannot tell you how many percentage more, but I think the 5-nanometer, TSMC is going to do a very good job and going to have a high market share.

我不能告訴你還有多少百分比，但我認為 5 納米，台積電會做得很好，並會擁有很高的市場份額。

Operator, let's move to the next caller on the line.

接線員，讓我們轉到線路上的下一個呼叫者。

Your next question comes from the line of [Susie Chu] from S&P Global.

您的下一個問題來自 S&P Global 的 [Susie Chu]。

I just have a brief question for -- on the China issue.

我有一個關於中國問題的簡短問題。

I was wondering, is there any change in the numbers of your Chinese clients in recent years, especially in this year?

我想知道，近年來，尤其是今年，你們中國客戶的數量有什麼變化嗎？

And if it is possible that we can get a number of the Chinese customers or the percentage of the Chinese customers as of the total clients.

如果有可能我們可以獲得中國客戶的數量或中國客戶佔客戶總數的百分比。

The number of customers in China actually is more than 100.

中國的客戶數量實際上超過了100家。

So it changes -- some of them changes all the time.

所以它會改變——其中一些一直在改變。

Of course, there are some bigger ones and smaller ones.

當然，也有較大的和較小的。

I'm not sure if this is your question.

我不確定這是否是你的問題。

Yes.

是的。

Sure.

當然。

Just is there any change on this number in this year?

只是今年這個數字有什麼變化嗎？

The number of customers generally increases.

客戶數量普遍增加。

It increases.

它增加了。

And may we know the portion of the Chinese customers in terms of your overall customers or the percentage?

我們可以知道中國客戶在您的總體客戶中所佔的比例或百分比嗎？

Oh, you mean the revenue or number of customers?

哦，你是說收入還是客戶數量？

The number of customers.

客戶數量。

The number of customers.

客戶數量。

The number of customers.

客戶數量。

Oh, we have over 400 active customers globally.

哦，我們在全球擁有 400 多個活躍客戶。

And if you look at China, if it's somewhere over 100, that gives you an idea.

如果你看看中國，如果它超過 100 個，這會給你一個想法。

Does that answer your question?

這是否回答你的問題？

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Very helpful.

非常有幫助。

Yes, that's all my questions.

是的，這就是我所有的問題。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Do we have any questions on the floor?

我們在地板上有什麼問題嗎？

Okay, let me come back to the floor.

好的，讓我回到地板上。

First of all, we will have a follow-up question from Citigroup's Roland Shu.

首先，花旗集團的 Roland Shu 將有一個後續問題。

I would like to follow up on the inventory question.

我想跟進庫存問題。

However, this is for your own inventory.

但是，這是針對您自己的庫存。

I look at in 3Q, your inventory level actually have decreased to 97 billion even though we had a very strong revenue in 3Q and a very upbeat guidance in 4Q.

我在第三季度看，儘管我們在第三季度的收入非常強勁並且在第四季度的指引非常樂觀，但您的庫存水平實際上已經下降到 970 億美元。

So the wafer in process should increase.

所以在製晶圓應該會增加。

However, overall inventory decreased a lot.

但是，整體庫存減少了很多。

So does that mean that our finished goods and also even for our materials like the wafer, inventory had decreased a lot?

那麼這是否意味著我們的成品，甚至我們的晶圓等材料的庫存都減少了很多？

And you are right.

你是對的。

Actually, let me -- suppose that the process actually enlarged, the total inventory should increase, but it decreased.

實際上，讓我 - 假設過程實際上擴大了，總庫存應該增加，但它減少了。

It's because of some of the wafer, we worked with our customer at the beginning of this year.

就是因為一些晶圓，今年年初我們和我們的客戶合作。

We produced it in early stage to make sure that we don't have a wafer crowded at the end of this year and then we ship it out.

我們在早期生產它，以確保我們在今年年底沒有晶圓擁擠，然後我們將其發貨。

And so the inventory actually decreased quite a lot because of that.

因此，庫存實際上因此減少了很多。

Being the finished goods?

作為成品？

Yes, finished goods.

是的，成品。

Okay.

好的。

Yes.

是的。

How about for the wafers?

晶圓呢？

I mean for the raw wafer inventory.

我的意思是原始晶圓庫存。

The raw wafer almost stayed the same because we prepare -- TSMC's business is increasing.

原始晶圓幾乎保持不變，因為我們準備 - 台積電的業務正在增加。

So actually, the raw wafer, we require a lot of amount in preparation for the good business.

所以實際上，原始晶圓，我們需要大量的資金來為良好的業務做準備。

So it stays the same in terms of percentage -- in terms of days, I'm sorry.

所以它在百分比方面保持不變 - 就天數而言，我很抱歉。

Okay.

好的。

And for the very upbeat outlook next year for the 7-nanometer and 5-nanometer, are we securing all of these wafers for our production next year?

對於明年 7 納米和 5 納米的非常樂觀的前景，我們是否確保所有這些晶圓用於明年的生產？

You bet.

你打賭。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

And the second question is you announced that your EUV tools have been reached potentially maturity, but how about for the infrastructure?

第二個問題是你宣布你的 EUV 工具已經達到了潛在的成熟度，但是基礎設施呢？

It means that for other component like photoresist, pellicle, photomask or even for this inspection tools, chemical and materials.

這意味著對於其他組件，如光刻膠、薄膜、光掩模，甚至對於這種檢測工具、化學品和材料。

So yes, we have -- going to have a very fast ramp on 5-nanometer because of very strong demand from a customer, but are there any gating items for this EUV infrastructure will be potentially a risk?

所以，是的，我們有——由於客戶的需求非常強勁，我們將在 5 納米上實現非常快速的增長，但是這個 EUV 基礎設施是否有任何門控項目可能存在風險？

So far we do not see any gating item.

到目前為止，我們沒有看到任何門控項目。

All the infrastructure, actually TSMC, we are prepared.

所有的基礎設施，實際上是台積電，我們都準備好了。

We have a -- we produce our own pellicle.

我們有一個——我們生產我們自己的薄膜。

We have a large number of masking capacity and everything.

我們有大量的掩蔽能力和一切。

So even photoresist, those kind of thing, we have been taking into account.

所以即使是光刻膠之類的東西，我們也一直在考慮。

So we are ready for the -- actually, we are in a high-volume production for the EUV lithography technology.

所以我們已經準備好——實際上，我們正在大批量生產 EUV 光刻技術。

For next year, you have big -- even higher volume, and I can assure you that we are all prepared.

明年，你們的交易量會更大——甚至更高，我可以向你們保證，我們都準備好了。

Next coming -- next question will be coming from Crédit Suisse, Randy Abrams.

下一個問題——下一個問題將來自 Crédit Suisse、Randy Abrams。

Yes.

是的。

I want to ask because you kind of hinted the utilization still below 90%.

我想問一下，因為您暗示利用率仍低於 90%。

So to get to 50%, you need to get utilization up.

因此，要達到 50%，您需要提高利用率。

Could you talk about the 28 node prospects, how you see that?

您能否談談 28 個節點的前景，您對此有何看法？

And then also 16 and 12, some of the applications, like we move on, some of the mobile and graphics.

然後還有 16 和 12，一些應用程序，比如我們繼續前進，一些移動和圖形。

So your view on utilization and backfill to hold up that technology node.

因此，您對利用和回填的看法來支撐該技術節點。

Let me answer that question.

讓我來回答這個問題。

On 28-nanometers, this technology node right now, I believe, in the industry is overcapacity.

在 28 納米上，我相信現在這個技術節點在行業中是產能過剩。

And so the utilization is very low, not up to TSMC's expectation.

所以利用率很低，沒有達到台積電的預期。

So we prepare a lot of derivative technologies -- specialty technology, let me say that.

所以我們準備了很多衍生技術——專業技術，讓我這麼說。

And we expect 2 years later from now, it will be again in the high utilization, but not today.

我們預計從現在起 2 年後，它將再次處於高利用率，但不是今天。

It takes time to work with a customer and to utilize that capacity.

與客戶合作並利用這種能力需要時間。

For 16 and 12 node, today we are still in a very healthy utilization, but we are prepared.

對於 16 和 12 節點，今天我們仍然處於非常健康的使用狀態，但我們已經做好了準備。

And if our competitor is -- continue to increase the capacity just like 28-nanometer's node, we expect a couple of years later, something like that, it will be overcapacity again.

如果我們的競爭對手是——繼續增加容量，就像 28 納米的節點一樣，我們預計幾年後，類似的情況，它會再次出現產能過剩。

So right now, we are prepared all the specialty technology like RF, like even some of the ISP or something like that.

所以現在，我們準備好了所有的專業技術，比如射頻，甚至一些 ISP 或類似的東西。

So it won't happen to TSMC.

所以這不會發生在台積電身上。

Okay.

好的。

The second question, just to ask about the segment revenue.

第二個問題，只是問一下分部收入。

I think into third quarter, mobile and HPC were both going to be strong.

我認為到第三季度，移動和 HPC 都會變得很強勁。

The HPC was good, but it wasn't quite as strong.

HPC 很好，但沒有那麼強大。

So I'm curious just in that mix, maybe factor for HPC.

所以我對這種組合很好奇，也許是 HPC 的因素。

And then IoT was quite strong.

然後物聯網非常強大。

So maybe some of the things you're seeing in that.

所以也許你在其中看到了一些東西。

And then if you could extend to give an outlook for fourth quarter by segment.

然後，如果您可以擴展以逐段給出第四季度的展望。

In the fourth quarter, of course, every segment is increased.

當然，在第四季度，每個部分都有所增加。

The HPC itself consists a lot of different market segments that's including network processor, including GPU, including accelerator, including all the cryptocurrency mining.

HPC 本身包含許多不同的細分市場，包括網絡處理器、GPU、加速器，包括所有加密貨幣挖掘。

And we expect that HPC will grow significantly in the fourth quarter.

我們預計 HPC 將在第四季度顯著增長。

Could you give the other segments?

可以給其他部分嗎？

I guess do you -- so any lagging and any picking up strongly?

我猜你是 - 所以任何滯後和任何強烈回升？

Let me give you -- okay.

讓我給你——好吧。

Now IoT, this quarter -- the third quarter of the IoT increased quite a bit.

現在是物聯網，本季度——物聯網的第三季度增長了很多。

So in the fourth quarter probably it will level off or slightly decrease.

因此，在第四季度，它可能會趨於平穩或略有下降。

While our all other segments will continue to grow.

而我們所有其他細分市場將繼續增長。

Next question will be coming from UBS, Bill Lu.

下一個問題將來自瑞銀集團的比爾·盧。

Yes.

是的。

If you look at the foundry industry historically, what we typically see is a big node followed by a smaller node, right?

如果你從歷史上看代工行業，我們通常看到的是一個大節點，然後是一個小節點，對吧？

And now essentially what you're saying is a big 7 and a big 5. Can you maybe just discuss what you're seeing that is different now versus before?

現在基本上你所說的是一個大 7 和一個大 5。你能不能只討論一下你所看到的現在與以前不同的東西？

Clearly, TSMC is addressing new markets.

顯然，台積電正在開拓新市場。

I think the demand drivers are different now versus before.

我認為需求驅動因素現在與以前不同。

But I'm curious as to what you're seeing that is different now.

但我很好奇你現在看到的是什麼不同。

You mentioned, big and then followed by a small node.

你提到，大的，然後是一個小節點。

I don't really catch what you mean.

我真的不明白你的意思。

But let me say that TSMC introduced a 16-nanometer and then 12 and then 10 and then 7 and then 5.

但是讓我說台積電推出了 16 納米，然後是 12 納米，然後是 10 納米，然後是 7 納米，然後是 5。

Now let's talk about 7 and 5. We are looking at the new market in the 5G because the 5G's requirement on the speed and the power consumption reduction is quite a lot.

現在來說說7和5。我們看的是5G的新市場，因為5G對速度和功耗降低的要求是相當多的。

It's not the same experience that we have before.

這和我們以前的經歷不一樣。

And so that after the 7-nanometer, all the customers asked us to develop the technology to meet their requirement with higher speed, lower power consumption.

所以在 7 納米之後，所有的客戶都要求我們開發技術來滿足他們對更高速度、更低功耗的要求。

So it will be a full node kind of improvement.

所以這將是一種全節點的改進。

It's not, say, that a 10% improvement will be good enough.

比如說，提高 10% 就足夠了。

Now look at our 7-nanometer.

現在看看我們的 7 納米。

We have a 7-nanometer, we have 5 and then we have a 6-nanometer.

我們有 7 納米，我們有 5 納米，然後我們有 6 納米。

The 6-nanometer being introduced as kind of for second wave products.

6納米作為第二波產品的一種引入。

But the leading wave of products always at a full node and marching ahead with about a 2 years cadence than we expect.

但領先的產品浪潮始終處於全節點，並以比我們預期的大約 2 年的節奏前進。

Next question will be coming from JPMorgan's Gokul.

下一個問題將來自摩根大通的 Gokul。

So if we compare the change in expectations in the last 6 months, would you characterize almost all of it as market growth -- faster market growth of 5G HPC?

因此，如果我們比較過去 6 個月的預期變化，您是否會將幾乎所有的變化都描述為市場增長——5G HPC 市場增長更快？

Or is there any meaningful change that -- in your market share expectation for some of your future nodes as well?

或者是否有任何有意義的變化——在你對一些未來節點的市場份額預期中？

Well, compared with 6 months ago, we are a little bit kind of conservative at the time because of our 7-nanometer's utilization is quite low.

嗯，和6個月前相比，我們當時有點保守，因為我們7納米的利用率很低。

So we become conservative.

所以我們變得保守。

But then in these 6 months, a lot of things changed.

但是在這 6 個月裡，很多事情發生了變化。

Let me say that, first, the 5G's momentum is larger than we expected.

讓我說，首先，5G的勢頭比我們預期的要大。

The second one is we also at the same time, because of our technology offer to the customer, we expand our customers' portfolio.

第二個是我們也同時，因為我們向客戶提供的技術，我們擴大了客戶的產品組合。

And because of the performance, again, we also expand to new product portfolio.

並且由於性能，我們也再次擴展到新的產品組合。

And so now we look at the future, we are more optimistic than 6 months ago, much more.

所以現在我們展望未來，我們比 6 個月前更加樂觀，甚至更多。

Any increase in market share that you expect compared to 6 months back?

與 6 個月前相比，您預期的市場份額會增加嗎？

I cannot comment on that.

我無法對此發表評論。

But it will be increased, right?

但它會增加，對吧？

If you expect.

如果你期望。

Okay.

好的。

Quickly on the breadth of customers on N5.

迅速在 N5 上廣泛的客戶。

I think around this time 1 year or 9 months before N7 ramp-up, you were talking about roughly I think 50 to 100 tape-outs on N7.

我認為大約在 N7 啟動前 1 年或 9 個月的這個時間，您大概在談論我認為 N7 上的 50 到 100 個流片。

Could we talk about what is the breadth of number of customers or number of tape-outs on N5 and how do you expect that to progress?

我們能否談談 N5 的客戶數量或流片數量的廣度是多少，您希望這方面的進展如何？

And I know that number of tape-outs is not equal to the number of -- or revenue or wafer volume, but I just wanted to understand the breadth of the customer base.

而且我知道流片的數量不等於 - 或收入或晶圓量的數量，但我只是想了解客戶群的廣度。

Whenever you say that, tape-out is one thing that see that how popular it is, but the more important is high volume products at tape-out.

每當您這麼說時，流片是一件事，可以看出它有多受歡迎，但更重要的是流片時的大批量產品。

And right now, we have many high-volume products at tape-out.

現在，我們有許多大批量的產品正在流片。

And that is the main reason why we increase our CapEx, high volume.

這就是我們增加資本支出（大容量）的主要原因。

And also in addition to smartphone, there are more market segments that we entered at the end.

而且除了智能手機之外，我們最終進入了更多的細分市場。

Okay.

好的。

Just one quick follow-up.

只需快速跟進。

If you think about N7 family, N7, N7+, N6, is it your expectation that pretty much most of the N7 current customers will eventually end up using N6, N7+?

如果您考慮 N7 系列、N7、N7+、N6，您是否期望當前 N7 的大多數客戶最終最終會使用 N6、N7+？

Will most of your capacity eventually be EUV-enabled for N7 as well?

您的大部分容量最終是否也會為 N7 啟用 EUV？

Or it will still be some EUV, some still using the current N7?

或者它仍然是一些 EUV，一些仍在使用當前的 N7？

We still expect some using the EUV and some will still stay in the N7.

我們仍然預計有些人會使用 EUV，有些人仍會留在 N7。

Because for those customer in the N7, in the 2-year cadence, they moved to N5 already.

因為對於那些 N7 的客戶，在 2 年的節奏中，他們已經轉移到 N5。

So they have no reason to go back to use N6.

所以他們沒有理由回去使用N6。

However, as I said, for the second wave of the product, they're using N6 with the benefit of lower die cost and better performance.

然而，正如我所說，對於第二波產品，他們使用 N6 具有更低的芯片成本和更好的性能。

So we should expect eventually majority will be N6?

所以我們應該期待最終大多數將是N6？

Yes.

是的。

Next follow-up question will be coming from Morgan Stanley's Charlie Chan.

下一個後續問題將來自摩根士丹利的查理陳。

So first of all, I want to follow up Bill's question on the future technology.

所以首先，我想跟進比爾關於未來技術的問題。

C.C., you mentioned that there are lots of benefit from power consumption, from performance from 5-nanometer, et cetera.

C.C.，您提到功耗、5 納米等性能有很多好處。

So how about the per transistor cost, right?

那麼每個晶體管的成本如何，對吧？

I remember some of your customers talking about they don't see the benefit from the transistor cost-saving going forward.

我記得你的一些客戶說他們看不到晶體管成本節約的好處。

Do you think that is a true statement?

你認為這是一個真實的說法嗎？

I still believe the per transistor cost is decreasing because right now, geometry is smaller and smaller.

我仍然相信每個晶體管的成本正在下降，因為現在，幾何尺寸越來越小。

Although for TSMC, we more pay attention to what customer need, right?

雖然對於台積電來說，我們更關注客戶的需求，對吧？

Because if they need speed, we give them speed.

因為如果他們需要速度，我們就給他們速度。

If they need the power -- lower power consumption, we give them the lower power consumption.

如果他們需要電力——更低的功耗，我們給他們更低的功耗。

But higher density is always the one that we are moving into the next-generation technology.

但更高的密度始終是我們向下一代技術邁進的方向。

So per transistor wise, I did not do a very detailed calculation, but I still think the transistor as a cost is lower.

因此，就晶體管而言，我沒有進行非常詳細的計算，但我仍然認為晶體管作為成本較低。

Okay.

好的。

And you also mentioned that for those new tape-out, actually volume is quite big.

您還提到，對於那些新的流片，實際上體積很大。

Can I interpret it in another way?

我可以用另一種方式解釋它嗎？

Meaning those smaller customers, they cannot really afford those future technology unless they have a very big volume.

這意味著那些較小的客戶，除非他們擁有非常大的數量，否則他們無法真正負擔得起這些未來的技術。

You said the right thinking.

你說的想法是對的。

Not really.

並不真地。

I mean that depend on their product.

我的意思是這取決於他們的產品。

Your last question about transistor's cost, let me give you some kind of taste.

你最後一個關於晶體管成本的問題，讓我給你一些品味。

We improved the logic density by 80%, but I did not charge my customer 80% more.

我們將邏輯密度提高了 80%，但我沒有向客戶多收取 80% 的費用。

So you know that per transistor cost is lower.

所以你知道每個晶體管的成本更低。

And again, in the market, I will say that a product to be successful is more important than you really calculate this improvement, this cost, that cost.

再說一次，在市場上，我會說一個產品是否成功比你真正計算出這個改進、這個成本、那個成本更重要。

Product has to be competitive in the market and so that people will give them the price that they deserve, okay?

產品必須在市場上具有競爭力，這樣人們才會給他們應得的價格，好嗎？

So not the small customer cannot afford it.

所以不是小客戶買不起。

Actually some of the small customer, they are working on the CPU kind of performance.

實際上一些小客戶，他們正在研究CPU那種性能。

They need a very high performance technology that they are working with TSMC.

他們需要與台積電合作的高性能技術。

Okay.

好的。

And next is on EUV, all right?

接下來是EUV，好嗎？

So over the past 3 years, there were some kind of challenge in terms of power, throughput, pellicle, et cetera.

因此，在過去的 3 年中，在功率、吞吐量、薄膜等方面存在某種挑戰。

So now do you see any kind of new issues, new challenge for EUV?

那麼現在你看到 EUV 的任何新問題、新挑戰了嗎？

Or from now on it's like a blue sky?

還是從現在開始就像藍天？

Okay.

好的。

In TSMC, EUV lithography technology is now in the production stage.

在台積電，EUV光刻技術目前處於量產階段。

But are we happy with that?

但我們對此滿意嗎？

Not yet.

還沒有。

We are still improving availability.

我們仍在提高可用性。

We have output power of 250 watts, as we expected.

正如我們所料，我們的輸出功率為 250 瓦。

Now we can operate the tool with 250 watts consistently.

現在我們可以始終如一地以 250 瓦的功率運行該工具。

However, there's still something that we need to improve so that we can improve the throughput, we can improve the availability so you can reduce the cost, continue to improve.

但是，我們仍然需要改進一些東西，以便我們可以提高吞吐量，我們可以提高可用性，這樣您就可以降低成本，繼續改進。

So in the interest of time, we will just have the last question that will be coming from CLSA's Sebastian Hou.

因此，考慮到時間，我們將只回答里昂證券的 Sebastian Hou 提出的最後一個問題。

I want to follow up.

我想跟進。

The first one is I want to follow up on EUV.

第一個是我想跟進 EUV。

Because overnight, ASML seems to talk about some supply constraints on the EUV tool -- the new EUV tool.

因為一夜之間，ASML 似乎在談論 EUV 工具——新的 EUV 工具的一些供應限制。

So it looks like this guidance -- preliminary expectation for next year EUV unit growth and this seems to be like amazing either.

所以它看起來像這個指導 - 對明年 EUV 單位增長的初步預期，這似乎也很驚人。

So I wonder what would that impact TSMC?

所以我想知道這會對台積電產生什麼影響？

And has TSMC secured what you need for this $14 billion to $15 billion CapEx this year and next year?

台積電是否已經為今年和明年 140 億至 150 億美元的資本支出提供了所需的資金？

The answer is yes, we secure whatever we need.

答案是肯定的，我們確保我們需要的任何東西。

We work with ASML very closely and we are ordering all the tools that we need.

我們與 ASML 密切合作，我們正在訂購我們需要的所有工具。

Okay.

好的。

So which means that the supply constraints could affect someone else but not us more?

那麼這意味著供應限制可能會影響其他人，但不會影響我們更多？

I don't want to comment on that.

我不想對此發表評論。

Okay.

好的。

My second question is that on the -- it looks like there's CapEx step-up this year or next year.

我的第二個問題是，今年或明年似乎資本支出有所增加。

When you think about that, the 28-nanometer also saw very strong demand, we continue to build the capacity, but then a couple of years later it turns into the underutilization, overcapacity, although there's some factors that because of the competition and laggards catching up.

想想看，28納米的需求也非常旺盛，我們繼續建設產能，但幾年後它變成了產能不足，產能過剩，儘管有一些因素是因為競爭和落後者追趕向上。

But how do you see this risk going forward for 7 and 5?

但是您如何看待 7 和 5 的這種風險？

And have you considered that whether there will be strong enough second wave or third wave of a demand to backfill this capacity when your current customers migrate into 3 or 2 or whatever it is 3 years from now?

您是否考慮過，當您當前的客戶遷移到 3 或 2 或 3 年後的任何時間時，是否會有足夠強大的第二波或第三波需求來回填此容量？

To answer your second question first, we do have confidence that a lot of products will fill up TSMC's capacity.

首先回答你的第二個問題，我們有信心很多產品會填滿台積電的產能。

Now a few years later, if you compare with the 28-nanometer to 7 to 5, it's not a good comparison because 7 and 5 with EUV, that technology barrier is much, much, much higher than you can expect from the high-K metal gate.

幾年後，如果你將 28 納米與 7 到 5 進行比較，這並不是一個很好的比較，因為 7 和 5 與 EUV 相比，技術壁壘比你對高 K 的預期要高得多、多得多。金屬門。

And so they are -- anyway, I don't want to comment on my competitor.

所以他們是——無論如何，我不想評論我的競爭對手。

Right.

正確的。

Okay.

好的。

Just last one.

就最後一個。

It's the last one, I promise, last one.

這是最後一個，我保證，最後一個。

The -- when we look at the CapEx step-up this time, it looks like the company has been staying around like $10 billion on the CapEx, plus/minus $1 billion to $2 billion for a few years right now.

- 當我們這次看資本支出的增加時，看起來該公司的資本支出一直保持在 100 億美元左右，現在幾年加/減 10 億到 20 億美元。

If we go back to look at in 2010, when we walked out of the downturn in 2009 and also we -- there's a huge step-up of your CapEx from 2010 in -- or 2009 to 2010, and then we know what happened to TSMC, it's a golden era for TSMC for a couple of years.

如果我們回顧 2010 年，當我們走出 2009 年的低迷時期，而且我們 - 從 2010 年或 2009 年到 2010 年，您的資本支出大幅增加，然後我們知道發生了什麼台積電，這幾年是台積電的黃金時代。

So now we have another step-up out of the semi downturn in the past 12 months.

因此，現在我們在過去 12 個月的半衰退中又邁出了一步。

Do you think there's similarity now or there's been and when you make this bold CapEx decision at this time?

你認為現在有相似之處還是曾經有過，當你在這個時候做出這個大膽的資本支出決定時？

I know what you ask, but let me say that TSMC is getting smarter, definitely.

我知道你在問什麼，但讓我說台積電肯定會變得更聰明。

And by the way, that technology barrier is much higher than -- as I said, much higher than 28-nanometer.

順便說一句，這個技術壁壘遠高於——正如我所說的，遠高於 28 納米。

So we have confidence that the capacity we build is closely -- is a result we closely worked with our customer.

所以我們有信心，我們建立的能力是密切相關的——是我們與客戶密切合作的結果。

And so we decided to increase the capacity at this time with a lot of detailed analysis.

所以我們決定在這個時候通過大量的詳細分析來增加容量。

And I certainly -- I have confidence that we won't repeat the same kind of error that we did.

我當然——我有信心我們不會重蹈覆轍。

Actually, not means error.

實際上，不意味著錯誤。

I will say that, that was a very bright and bold decision, capital increase in 2010.

我會說，這是一個非常明智和大膽的決定，2010年增資。

Oh, thank you.

哦謝謝。

2010?

2010 年？

Yes.

是的。

I'm sorry.

對不起。

Yes.

是的。

Those are the 28-nanometer.

這些是28納米。

It's the golden years.

這是黃金歲月。

Very good, yes.

很好，是的。

Yes.

是的。

So I was asking whether we could see another view of golden years after this.

所以我在問，我們是否可以在此之後看到另一種黃金歲月。

Oh, you say that for -- of course.

哦，你這麼說是為了——當然。

What do you expect?

你能指望什麼？

Yes.

是的。

Well, before we conclude our conference, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to announce that important news that the beautiful lady sitting right beside me, Elizabeth, had decided to retire from the company at the end of this year.

好吧，在我們結束我們的會議之前，女士們，先生們，我想宣布一個重要的消息，坐在我旁邊的美麗女士伊麗莎白決定在今年年底從公司退休。

As you all know, Elizabeth has been with TSMC as Head of Investor Relations for 17 years.

眾所周知，伊麗莎白在台積電擔任投資者關係主管已有 17 年。

17, that's a long time, isn't it?

17，那是很長的時間，不是嗎？

She's also the head of our public relations for 10 years.

她也是我們公共關係負責人長達 10 年。

And well, the beautiful lady had been called in the public, say, the face of TSMC.

好吧，這位美麗的女士在公眾面前被稱為台積電的代言人。

TSMC is beautiful also.

台積電也很漂亮。

In her IR role, Elizabeth has won numerous awards and recognitions all over the world, as an IR -- the best IR Officer.

作為一名 IR——最佳 IR 官員，伊麗莎白在她的 IR 角色中贏得了世界各地的無數獎項和認可。

That's in Taiwan, in Asia and in the world.

這是在台灣，在亞洲和世界。

So many of you had been in frequent contact with her, I believe, so you know that she is a brilliant and enthusiastic and energetic lady.

我相信你們中的許多人都經常與她接觸，所以你們知道她是一位才華橫溢、熱情洋溢、精力充沛的女士。

And you can definitely sense how much she loves TSMC.

你絕對可以感受到她對台積電的熱愛。

In the last many years, she has built a world-class IR team and developed successfully a competent successor who is sitting right there.

多年來，她打造了一支世界級的IR團隊，並成功培養了一位稱職的接班人。

On behalf of TSMC, I would like to thank her for all her dedication and contribution to the company's success and wish her the best for her retirement.

我謹代表台積電感謝她為公司成功所做的一切奉獻和貢獻，並祝愿她退休後一切順利。

Now ladies and gentlemen, let's ask Elizabeth to give us a few words.

現在，女士們，先生們，讓我們請伊麗莎白給我們講幾句話。

Thank you, and thank you very much, C.C. I'm very privileged to have been able to work for TSMC in the last almost 17 years.

謝謝你，非常感謝你，C.C.在過去的近 17 年裡，我很榮幸能夠為台積電工作。

Under the leadership of our Founder, Dr. Morris Chang, and the current management team, I have witnessed how this company is able to move from strength to strength and still remains true to its mission and its value.

在我們的創始人Morris Chang 博士和現任管理團隊的領導下，我見證了這家公司如何不斷壯大，並且仍然忠於其使命和價值。

I have been blessed with the opportunity to represent this company that I deeply admire in front of the investment community and the press.

我很幸運有機會在投資界和媒體面前代表這家我非常欽佩的公司。

I have enjoyed every minute of it, and I hope I have served the company well.

我很享受其中的每一分鐘，我希望我能很好地為公司服務。

You did.

你做到了。

With all my heart to the investors, to the analysts and to the press, I want to thank you for your friendship and trust.

我衷心感謝投資者、分析師和媒體，感謝你們的友誼和信任。

I very much enjoyed our interactions, communications and discussions in the past.

我非常享受我們過去的互動、交流和討論。

And I do hope that you will extend your goodwill to my IR successor, Jeff Su, who has been working closely with me in the last 4 years, and many of you are already familiar with Jeff.

我確實希望你們能對我的 IR 繼任者 Jeff Su 表達好意，他在過去 4 年裡一直與我密切合作，你們中的許多人已經熟悉 Jeff。

I have had the most wonderful, exciting and rewarding time in my career at TSMC.

我在台積電的職業生涯中度過了最美妙、最激動人心和最有意義的時光。

I'm leaving the company at a time when its future is brighter than ever, and I'm confident that you will continue to derive handsome returns from owning our shares.

我將在公司的未來比以往任何時候都更加光明的時候離開公司，我相信您將繼續從擁有我們的股票中獲得可觀的回報。

So with that, let me wish you good fortune and good health, and we will conclude today's conference here.

至此，祝大家好運，身體健康，今天的會議到此結束。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Thank you.

謝謝你。