台積電 ADR (TSM) 2017 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(foreign language) Welcome to TSMC's Third Quarter 2017 Earnings Conference and Conference Call.

（外語）歡迎參加台積電2017年第三季度財報電話會議。

This is Jeff Su, TSMC's Deputy Director of Investor Relations and your host for today.

我是台積電投資者關係副總監，也是今天的主持人 Jeff Su。

Before we start, I like to inform everybody that TSMC will be celebrating its 30th anniversary with a forum that will start at 1:30 p.m.

在開始之前，我想通知大家，台積電將在下午 1:30 開始論壇，慶祝其成立 30 週年。

Taiwan time on next Monday, October 23, 2017.

台灣時間2017年10月23日下週一。

The topic of this forum will be Semiconductors: The Next 10 Years.

本次論壇的主題是半導體：未來 10 年。

The forum will feature distinguished panelists from leading semiconductor companies and will be moderated by our Chairman, Dr. Morris Chang.

論壇將邀請來自領先半導體公司的傑出小組成員參加，並由我們的主席張忠謀博士主持。

The event will be webcast live through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com and we like to invite each and every one of you to watch this webcast.

該活動將通過台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 進行網絡直播，我們希望邀請每一位觀眾觀看此網絡直播。

Now, coming back to today's event, TSMC's third quarter 2017 earnings conference and conference call are webcast live through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

現在，回到今天的活動，台積電 2017 年第三季度財報電話會議和電話會議通過台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 進行網絡直播。

If you're joining us via the conference call, your dial-in lines are in listen-only mode.

如果您通過電話會議加入我們，您的撥入線路處於只聽模式。

As this conference is being viewed by investors around the world, we will conduct this event in English only.

由於世界各地的投資者都在觀看本次會議，因此我們將僅以英語進行本次活動。

The format for today's event will be as follows: First, TSMC's Senior Vice President and CFO, Ms. Lora Ho, will summarize our operations in the third quarter of 2017, followed by our guidance for the fourth quarter of 2017 and her key messages.

今天活動的形式如下：首先，台積電高級副總裁兼首席財務官Lora Ho女士將總結我們在2017年第三季度的運營，然後是我們對2017年第四季度的指導和她的主要信息。

Afterwards, TSMC's two Presidents and Co-CEOs, Dr. Mark Liu and Dr. C. C. Wei, will jointly provide our key messages.

之後，台積電的兩位總裁兼聯席 CEO Mark Liu 博士和 C. C. Wei 博士將共同提供我們的關鍵信息。

And then we will open both the floor and the line for the question-and-answer session.

然後，我們將打開地板和線路以進行問答環節。

For those participants on the call, if you do not yet have a copy of the press release, you may download it from TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

對於電話會議的參與者，如果您還沒有新聞稿的副本，您可以從台積電的網站 www.tsmc.com 下載。

Please also download the summary slides in relation to today's earnings conference presentation.

另請下載與今天的財報會議演示相關的摘要幻燈片。

As usual, I like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risk and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements.

像往常一樣，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含具有重大風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述，這可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中包含的結果存在重大差異。

Please refer to the Safe Harbor notice that appears in our press release.

請參閱我們新聞稿中的安全港通知。

And now, I'd like to turn the podium to TSMC's CFO, Ms. Lora Ho, for the summary of operations and the current quarter guidance.

現在，我想將領獎台交給台積電首席財務官 Lora Ho 女士，以了解運營總結和當前季度指導。

Thank you, Jeff.

謝謝你，傑夫。

Good afternoon, everyone.

大家下午好。

Thank you for joining us this afternoon.

感謝您今天下午加入我們。

My presentation, as usual, will start with financial highlights for the third quarter and followed by the guidance for the fourth quarter.

像往常一樣，我的演講將從第三季度的財務亮點開始，然後是第四季度的指導。

Third quarter revenue increased 17.9% sequentially to TWD 252 billion.

第三季度收入環比增長 17.9% 至 2520 億新台幣。

The strength of our third quarter revenue was driven mainly by major mobile product launches and a healthy demand environment, including cryptocurrency mining.

我們第三季度收入的強勁主要得益於主要移動產品的推出和健康的需求環境，包括加密貨幣挖礦。

However, this strength was partially dampened by our customers' continued inventory management.

然而，我們客戶持續的庫存管理部分削弱了這種優勢。

Gross margin declined 0.9 percentage point sequentially to 49.9%, mainly reflecting the 10-nanometer margin dilution, as I reported 3 months ago, but was somewhat balanced by an improved capacity utilization.

毛利率環比下降 0.9 個百分點至 49.9%，主要反映了 10 納米利潤率的稀釋，正如我在 3 個月前報告的那樣，但在一定程度上被產能利用率的提高所平衡。

Total operating expenses increased by TWD 2.2 billion.

總營運開支增加新台幣 22 億元。

The increase was mainly for 5-nanometer development.

增長主要用於 5 納米的開發。

However, thanks to operating leverages, total operating expense only represented 10.9% of revenue, so we were able to keep our operating margin flat sequentially at 38.9%.

然而，由於運營槓桿，總運營費用僅佔收入的 10.9%，因此我們能夠將營業利潤率連續保持在 38.9%。

On tax expense, after a big jump in tax rate to 23% in the second quarter due to the accrual of retained earning tax, our effective tax rate fell back to 10.6% in the third quarter.

在稅費方面，由於留存所得稅的應計，第二季度稅率大幅上漲至 23%，我們的有效稅率在第三季度回落至 10.6%。

Full year tax rate will remain between 13% and 14%.

全年稅率將保持在 13% 至 14% 之間。

Overall, our third quarter EPS was $3.47 and ROE was 25.9%.

總體而言，我們第三季度的每股收益為 3.47 美元，ROE 為 25.9%。

Now, let's take a look at wafer revenue contribution by application.

現在，讓我們看一下應用對晶圓收入的貢獻。

During the third quarter, all four applications saw sequential growth.

在第三季度，所有四個應用程序都出現了環比增長。

Communication, Computer, Consumer and Industrial/Standard increased 10%, 46%, 15% and 13% respectively.

通信、計算機、消費和工業/標準分別增長 10%、46%、15% 和 13%。

Now, let's look at revenue by technology.

現在，讓我們看看技術收入。

10-nanometer process technology contributed 10% of total wafer revenue during the third quarter, up from only 1% in the second quarter.

10 納米工藝技術在第三季度貢獻了 10% 的晶圓總收入，高於第二季度的 1%。

The combined revenue from 16 and 20-nanometer accounted for 24% and 28-nanometer was 23%.

16 和 20 納米的總收入佔 24%，28 納米為 23%。

Advanced technologies, defined as 28-nanometer and more advanced, accounted for 57% of total wafer revenue, up from 54% in the second quarter.

定義為 28 納米及更先進的先進技術佔晶圓總收入的 57%，高於第二季度的 54%。

Moving on to the balance sheet, cash and marketable securities decreased 159 -- sorry, TWD 157 billion to TWD 502 billion, mainly as we distributed TWD 182 billion of cash dividend and repaid TWD 28 billion of corporate bonds.

繼續資產負債表，現金和有價證券減少了 159 - 抱歉，1570 億新台幣至 5020 億新台幣，主要是因為我們分配了 1820 億新台幣的現金股息，並償還了 280 億新台幣的公司債券。

Correspondingly, current liability decreased by TWD 225 billion.

相應地，流動負債減少了2250億新台幣。

On financial ratios, accounts receivable turnover days decreased 5 days to 42 days, while days of inventory slightly increased 1 day to 53 days.

財務比率方面，應收賬款周轉天數減少 5 天至 42 天，而存貨天數小幅增加 1 天至 53 天。

Now, let me make a few comments on cash flow and CapEx.

現在，讓我對現金流和資本支出發表一些評論。

During the third quarter, we generated about TWD 117 billion cash from operations and spent TWD 62 billion in capital expenditures.

在第三季度，我們從運營中產生了約 1170 億新台幣的現金，並花費了 620 億新台幣的資本支出。

As a result, free cash flow was an inflow of TWD 55 billion.

結果，自由現金流流入了 550 億新台幣。

After we paid out cash dividend and repaid corporate bonds, cash balance decreased by about TWD 162 billion to reach TWD 408 billion at the end of the quarter.

在我們派發現金股息及償還公司債券後，現金餘額減少約 1,620 億新台幣，至本季度末達到 4,080 億新台幣。

In U.S. dollar terms, our third quarter capital expenditure was about USD 2.1 billion.

以美元計算，我們第三季度的資本支出約為 21 億美元。

Now, let's turn to the fourth quarter guidance.

現在，讓我們轉向第四季度的指導。

Based on current business outlook, we expect fourth quarter revenue to be between USD 9.1 billion and USD 9.2 billion, representing 10% Q-over-Q growth.

根據目前的業務前景，我們預計第四季度收入將在 91 億美元至 92 億美元之間，環比增長 10%。

Based on exchange rate assumption of USD 1 to TWD 30.30, our fourth quarter gross margin is expected to be between 48% and 50%.

基於 1 美元兌 30.30 新台幣的匯率假設，我們第四季度的毛利率預計在 48% 至 50% 之間。

Our fourth quarter operating margin is expected to be between 37% and 39%.

我們第四季度的營業利潤率預計在 37% 到 39% 之間。

As we highlighted 3 months ago, we expect that 10-nanometer ramp will impact our second half 2017 gross margin by about 2 to 3 percentage point.

正如我們在 3 個月前強調的那樣，我們預計 10 納米的增長將影響我們 2017 年下半年的毛利率約 2 至 3 個百分點。

In the third quarter, the 10-nanometer dilution was about 2 percentage point.

第三季度，10納米稀釋度約為2個百分點。

We expect the dilution to be about 3 percentage point in the fourth quarter as the significant ramp-up of our 10-nanometer production will continue.

我們預計第四季度的稀釋度約為 3 個百分點，因為我們 10 納米生產的顯著增長將繼續。

Now, let me make some comments on our CapEx.

現在，讓我對我們的資本支出發表一些評論。

On CapEx, we have spent USD 8.8 billion so far through the first 3 quarters of 2017.

截至 2017 年前三個季度，我們在資本支出方面的支出為 88 億美元。

We now expect our 2017 budget to be USD 10.8 billion, up from previously guided USD 10 billion.

我們現在預計 2017 年的預算為 108 億美元，高於之前指導的 100 億美元。

The increase of about USD 800 million is mainly attributable to the accelerated buildup of 7-nanometer capacity.

增加約8億美元，主要是由於7納米產能加速建設。

In order to support our 5% to 10% revenue growth target in the next few years, we anticipate that our CapEx in the next few years may be a few percentage points more than USD 10 billion.

為了支持我們未來幾年 5% 到 10% 的收入增長目標，我們預計未來幾年我們的資本支出可能會超過 100 億美元幾個百分點。

Let me make some comment on profitability.

讓我對盈利能力發表一些評論。

Over the past few years, we have been able to improve our structural profitability.

在過去的幾年裡，我們已經能夠提高我們的結構性盈利能力。

We plan to maintain our structural profitability by continuing to create more value for our customers, increasing operating efficiencies and maintaining high utilization rate with careful planning of capacity.

我們計劃通過繼續為客戶創造更多價值、提高運營效率和通過仔細規劃產能保持高利用率來維持我們的結構性盈利能力。

This is a challenge as every year we face a different market environment.

這是一個挑戰，因為我們每年都面臨不同的市場環境。

However, with continuous innovations, our target is to maintain our gross margin at close to the 50% level.

然而，通過不斷的創新，我們的目標是將我們的毛利率保持在接近 50% 的水平。

This is my remark.

這是我的評論。

Now, I turn the microphone to Mark.

現在，我把麥克風轉向馬克。

Good afternoon.

下午好。

I want to deliver the following messages; the title is showing on the screen.

我想傳遞以下信息；標題顯示在屏幕上。

And the first is the near-term demand and inventory.

首先是近期的需求和庫存。

Again, I will talk about demand in U.S. dollars because almost all our shipment is paid by U.S. dollar.

再說一次，我會用美元來談論需求，因為我們幾乎所有的貨物都是用美元支付的。

We had a good third quarter.

我們有一個很好的第三季度。

We concluded our third quarter revenue with 18% quarter-to-quarter growth in U.S. dollar.

我們第三季度的收入以美元計算的季度環比增長 18% 結束。

This growth is strong, mainly driven by major mobile product launches using our 10-nanometer technology and InFO advanced packaging.

這一增長強勁，主要是由於使用我們的 10 納米技術和 InFO 先進封裝推出的主要移動產品。

Even though demand was slightly dampened by the supply chain inventory reduction, our customers' third quarter growth were largely healthy.

儘管供應鏈庫存減少略微抑制了需求，但我們客戶的第三季度增長基本健康。

We saw continued strength from automotive, IoT and high-performance computing, which includes a surge demand from cryptocurrency mining.

我們看到汽車、物聯網和高性能計算的持續增長，其中包括加密貨幣挖礦的需求激增。

As for fabless inventory, days of inventory stayed high exiting 2Q '17, largely due to the deferred annual product launch of Android smartphones, mainly from April -- from March-April to June-July.

至於無晶圓廠庫存，庫存天數在 17 年第二季度後仍居高不下，這主要是由於 Android 智能手機的年度產品發布推遲，主要是從 4 月 - 從 3 月至 4 月至 6 月至 7 月。

Moving into third quarter, we estimated fabless DOI continues to reduce, but still to be higher than seasonal.

進入第三季度，我們估計無晶圓廠 DOI 繼續下降，但仍高於季節性。

We expect it to decrease to close to seasonal level exiting 4Q '17.

我們預計它將下降到接近 17 年第四季度的季節性水平。

For the fourth quarter, we now forecast to have another strong revenue growth of 10% quarter-to-quarter.

對於第四季度，我們現在預計收入將再次強勁增長 10% 的季度環比。

It is driven by the ramp-up of our 10-nanometer technology.

它是由我們 10 納米技術的提升推動的。

We forecast world semiconductor growth of 16% year-to-year in 2017.

我們預測 2017 年全球半導體行業將同比增長 16%。

In it, memory segment will grow 51% we estimate.

其中，我們估計內存段將增長 51%。

The world semiconductor, excluding memory growth, is about 6% year-to-year.

世界半導體，不包括內存增長，同比增長約 6%。

It is mainly supported by the increased silicon content and a richer product mix, especially in the high-end smartphone, AI and automotive related market.

主要得益於矽含量的增加和更豐富的產品組合，尤其是在高端智能手機、人工智能和汽車相關市場。

For the foundry market, we forecast revenue growth to be 7% in 2017.

對於代工市場，我們預測 2017 年收入增長為 7%。

It is an increase from our previously 6% forecast last quarter.

這比我們上個季度之前 6% 的預測有所增加。

For TSMC, we forecast to have a revenue growth of 8.8% in U.S. dollar, near the high-end of 5% to 10% target of 2017.

對於台積電，我們預計以美元計算的收入增長為 8.8%，接近 2017 年 5% 至 10% 的高端目標。

Now, I will talk about some major projects that are still in R&D.

現在，我將談談一些仍在研發中的重大項目。

Later C. C. will talk about projects that are either in production or near to production.

稍後 C. C. 將討論正在生產或即將生產的項目。

For the project in R&D, first I will talk about N5 progress.

對於研發中的項目，我先說一下N5的進展。

TSMC N5 technology is scheduled for first half 2019 risk production and 2020 volume production.

台積電N5技術計劃2019年上半年風險量產，2020年量產。

Its development progress is well on track.

其發展進展順利。

Development of both device performance and yield improvement are on schedule.

器件性能和良率改進的開發均按計劃進行。

Our N5 technology will provide the best power efficiency for mobile application in 2020.

我們的 N5 技術將在 2020 年為移動應用提供最佳能效。

This N5 technology will also support high-speed standard cells featuring extreme low Vt transistor, low RC interconnect, high-density capacitor and high-performance computing interconnect design scheme.

該 N5 技術還將支持具有極低 Vt 晶體管、低 RC 互連、高密度電容器和高性能計算互連設計方案的高速標准單元。

Those features are designed for applications in server, CPU, GPU, network processor and FPGA.

這些功能專為服務器、CPU、GPU、網絡處理器和 FPGA 中的應用而設計。

TSMC N5 will use EUV extensively to get the full benefit of EUV.

台積電 N5 將廣泛使用 EUV，以充分發揮 EUV 的優勢。

I'll talk more about EUV readiness.

我將更多地談論 EUV 的準備情況。

Our EUV technology development are progressing well for N7+ and N5 technologies.

N7+ 和 N5 技術的 EUV 技術開發進展順利。

We have consistently produced equal or better yield on our N7 baseline using several EUV layers.

我們使用多個 EUV 層在 N7 基線上始終產生相同或更好的產量。

The world's first NXE:3400 EUV scanner has been released to production in our fab and has produced the best CD control, overlay and SRAM yield on our N5 technology.

世界上第一台 NXE:3400 EUV 掃描儀已在我們的工廠投入生產，並在我們的 N5 技術上產生了最佳的 CD 控制、覆蓋和 SRAM 良率。

We have run over 1,000 backend yield trial lots of N5 with EUV and its yield is better than N7 at the same stage of our development.

我們已經用 EUV 運行了超過 1,000 個 N5 後端良率試驗批次，在我們開發的同一階段，它的良率優於 N7。

At TSMC, our EUV infrastructure development on high sensitivity EUV photoresist, low defect mask blank, pellicle quality and method of mask defect inspection are all on track for 2019 N7+ volume production and 2020 N5 volume production.

在台積電，我們在高靈敏度 EUV 光刻膠、低缺陷掩模板、薄膜質量和掩模缺陷檢測方法方面的 EUV 基礎設施開發都在 2019 年 N7+ 量產和 2020 年 N5 量產的軌道上。

The following, I will provide our outlook of smartphone and high-performance computing.

下面，我將提供我們對智能手機和高性能計算的展望。

Firstly, on smartphone.

首先，在智能手機上。

We forecast world smartphone long-term unit growth to be 6% compound annual growth rate from 2016 to 2021.

我們預測 2016 年至 2021 年全球智能手機長期銷量增長率為 6%。

On top of this unit growth, the insatiable need for higher display quality and camera performance on new smartphones will continue.

除了這一單位增長之外，新智能手機對更高顯示質量和相機性能的永不滿足的需求將繼續存在。

New advanced technologies such as voice recognition, on-device AI, AR, VR, 4G to 5G, et cetera, are driving silicon content per smartphone to continue to increase.

語音識別、設備端 AI、AR、VR、4G 到 5G 等新的先進技術正在推動每部智能手機的矽含量繼續增加。

We also see those high-end features continuously proliferate to mid, low-end smartphones.

我們還看到這些高端功能不斷向中低端智能手機擴散。

On HPC, high-performance computing, we continue to believe AI and ubiquitous computing will be important drivers for long-term world semiconductor growth.

在高性能計算（HPC）方面，我們仍然相信人工智能和普適計算將成為世界半導體長期增長的重要驅動力。

The fast expansion of deep learning in data centers is driving performance requirement for our GPU, CPU, FPGA and ASIC customers.

數據中心深度學習的快速擴展正在推動我們的 GPU、CPU、FPGA 和 ASIC 客戶的性能需求。

Meanwhile, AI will continue to proliferate from the cloud to broad based client devices such as smartphones and ADAS in cars, DTVs, set-top box, gaming, surveillance, robot and drone.

與此同時，人工智能將繼續從雲端擴散到基礎廣泛的客戶端設備，例如汽車、數字電視、機頂盒、遊戲、監控、機器人和無人機中的智能手機和 ADAS。

Already started from voice AI, future AI will be much more sophisticated and intelligent, capable of real-time complex inferencing and local learning.

已經從語音 AI 開始，未來的 AI 將更加複雜和智能，能夠進行實時復雜推理和本地學習。

All this requires intensive localized parallel computation.

所有這些都需要密集的局部並行計算。

In addition to AI, the emerging blockchain applications seen in cryptocurrency mining recently may also fuel the future growth of high-performance computing.

除了人工智能，最近在加密貨幣挖礦中出現的新興區塊鏈應用也可能推動高性能計算的未來增長。

So we are more optimistic on the high-performance computing opportunity today versus last year.

因此，與去年相比，我們對今天的高性能計算機會更加樂觀。

With our advanced wafer processing technologies and advanced packaging technologies, we will enable our customers to capture this trend.

憑藉我們先進的晶圓加工技術和先進的封裝技術，我們將使我們的客戶能夠抓住這一趨勢。

High performance computing wafer TAM in 2017 is about $11.5 billion and we expect it to have a double-digit CAGR, compound annual growth rate, in the next 5 years.

2017 年高性能計算晶圓 TAM 約為 115 億美元，我們預計未來 5 年它的複合年增長率將達到兩位數。

We expect high-performance computing will become our major growth engine starting 2020.

我們預計從 2020 年開始，高性能計算將成為我們的主要增長引擎。

That is my message.

那是我的信息。

Thank for attention.

感謝關注。

So I turn the microphone to C. C.

所以我把麥克風轉到 C. C.

Thank you, Mark.

謝謝你，馬克。

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

下午好，女士們，先生們。

Let me start with our outlook for IoT and automotive.

讓我從我們對物聯網和汽車的展望開始。

IoT will be one of the high growth segment for TSMC in the next 5 years, with expected annual growth rate better than 20%.

物聯網將是台積電未來5年的高增長領域之一，預計年增長率將超過20%。

In 2017, we estimate the business contribution from IoT will be more than USD 1 billion.

2017年，我們估計物聯網的業務貢獻將超過10億美元。

We believe the growth of IoT market is mainly driven by the readiness of ubiquitous connectivity such as Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, narrow band and 5G.

我們認為物聯網市場的增長主要受到 Wi-Fi、藍牙、窄帶和 5G 等無處不在的連接的就緒推動。

TSMC has been working with customers to develop technologies required for IoT products such as sensors and various many low power devices.

台積電一直與客戶合作開發物聯網產品所需的技術，例如傳感器和各種低功耗設備。

In sensor technology, we have offered the foundry's first stacked CMOS image sensor process down to 40-nanometer.

在傳感器技術方面，我們提供了該代工廠首個低至 40 納米的堆疊 CMOS 圖像傳感器工藝。

We have also offered the first NIR product and the smallest footprint MEMS sensor, which has been widely used in smartphones and other applications.

我們還提供了第一款 NIR 產品和最小尺寸的 MEMS 傳感器，已廣泛用於智能手機和其他應用。

In low power, TSMC has developed a comprehensive and complete set of low power technologies to meet our IoT customers' requirements.

在低功耗方面，台積電開發了一套全面完整的低功耗技術，以滿足我們物聯網客戶的需求。

In this category, our technology currently include 55-nanometer ULP, 40ULP, 22ULP and 12FFC.

在這一類別中，我們的技術目前包括 55 納米 ULP、40ULP、22ULP 和 12FFC。

Now, let me move to automotive.

現在，讓我轉向汽車。

In the automotive industry, we believe there are 3 mega trends that will lead to higher semiconductor content in future vehicles.

在汽車行業，我們認為有 3 大趨勢將導致未來汽車中更高的半導體含量。

They are: the trend toward better safety such as ADAS; the trend towards smart vehicles, which is demonstrated in faster and wider connectivity and infotainment; and the trend toward greener vehicles such as electrical vehicle and the hybrid electrical vehicles.

它們是： 安全性更高的趨勢，例如 ADAS；智能汽車的趨勢，體現在更快、更廣泛的連接性和信息娛樂；以及電動汽車和混合動力電動汽車等綠色汽車的趨勢。

TSMC has developed advanced CMOS technologies with a complete automotive IC design ecosystem both in 16FFC and by next year N7.

台積電已經在 16FFC 和明年的 N7 中開發了具有完整汽車 IC 設計生態系統的先進 CMOS 技術。

We are also working with all top 5 auto MCU companies to develop multiple embedded flash technologies for applications in many areas such as engine control, breaking system, infotainment and et cetera.

我們還與所有排名前 5 位的汽車 MCU 公司合作，為發動機控制、制動系統、信息娛樂等許多領域的應用開發多種嵌入式閃存技術。

TSMC's superior auto grade manufacturing quality, sufficient capacity and long-term supply commitment are additional critical elements to fulfill the automotive supply chain requirement.

台積電卓越的汽車級製造質量、充足的產能和長期的供應承諾是滿足汽車供應鏈要求的額外關鍵要素。

We expect to double our automotive business in the next 5 years from about TWD 1.4 billion this year.

我們預計未來 5 年我們的汽車業務將從今年的約 14 億新台幣翻一番。

Now, let me move to N7 and N7+.

現在，讓我轉到 N7 和 N7+。

N7 been transferred from R&D to manufacturing in early third quarter this year.

N7在今年第三季度初從研發轉移到製造。

Right now, our efforts focus on defect reduction and fine-tuning device performance to prepare for mass production in the first half of 2018.

目前，我們的工作重點是減少缺陷和微調器件性能，為 2018 年上半年的量產做準備。

We expect the yield learning in N7 to benefit greatly from N10 and our progress so far has been on schedule.

我們預計 N7 中的產量學習將從 N10 中受益匪淺，到目前為止，我們的進展一直在按計劃進行。

The initial application for N7 are high-end application processors and high-performance computing.

N7最初的應用是高端應用處理器和高性能計算。

We are working with major customers for their products to be introduced in 2018.

我們正在與主要客戶合作，以便在 2018 年推出他們的產品。

We expect more than 50 tape-outs by the end of 2018.

我們預計到 2018 年底將有超過 50 個流片。

We will also introduce N7+ in risk production in 2018.

2018年我們還將在風險生產中引入N7+。

Compared to N7, N7+ will have 20% area reduction and logic density and about 10% speed improvement.

與 N7 相比，N7+ 將有 20% 的面積縮減和邏輯密度以及約 10% 的速度提升。

We will start to use EUV in production at N7+ node.

我們將在 N7+ 節點開始在生產中使用 EUV。

We have been working with ASML in developing EUV process for many years.

多年來，我們一直與 ASML 合作開發 EUV 工藝。

Right now, as Mark just mentioned, we are using our own N7 test vehicle to practice EUV and have achieved same yield in SRAM circuit as without EUV.

現在，正如 Mark 剛剛提到的，我們正在使用我們自己的 N7 測試車輛來練習 EUV，並且在 SRAM 電路中實現了與沒有 EUV 相同的良率。

Now N10, TSMC N10 offers 2x logic density and 15% speed improvement as compared to our 16FFC.

現在是 N10，與我們的 16FFC 相比，TSMC N10 提供 2 倍的邏輯密度和 15% 的速度提升。

We are already in mass production with the major application in the high-end smartphones.

我們已經在量產，主要應用在高端智能手機。

The N10 yield has been better than our original plan and N10 has also set a new record in TSMC history in terms of ramping rate.

N10 的良率已經好於我們最初的計劃，而且 N10 在爬坡率方面也創下了台積電歷史上的新紀錄。

We have achieved the planned peak output in a period less than 2 months as compared to 3 months for N20 and the N16.

與 N20 和 N16 的 3 個月相比，我們在不到 2 個月的時間內實現了計劃的峰值產量。

The cycle time is also better than planned and again sets another new record for ramping up a new technology.

週期時間也比計劃的要好，並再次為提升新技術創造了新的記錄。

We expect N10 to contribute about 10% of our full year 2017 wafer revenue.

我們預計 N10 將貢獻我們 2017 年全年晶圓收入的 10% 左右。

Now, N16 and N12.

現在，N16 和 N12。

This year we have introduced 12FFC technology to further improve upon our 16FFC with a faster speed by about 6% to 10% or reduction of power consumption by about 15% to 20%.

今年我們引入了 12FFC 技術，進一步改進了我們的 16FFC，速度提高了約 6% 至 10% 或功耗降低了約 15% 至 20%。

In addition, 12FFC also has about a 20% smaller logic area as compared to 16FFC.

此外，12FFC 的邏輯面積也比 16FFC 小 20% 左右。

As a result, we expect most of our customers will start to adopt 12FFC for their products in 2018 and after.

因此，我們預計我們的大多數客戶將在 2018 年及之後開始為其產品採用 12FFC。

The major application for this 16, 12FFC node are mobile applications processors, graphics chips, FPGA, RF and low power devices.

這個 16、12FFC 節點的主要應用是移動應用處理器、圖形芯片、FPGA、RF 和低功耗設備。

Due to strong demand from the high-performance segment, we have reached a very high utilization rate in 16-nanometer recently and we expect this momentum will continue into 2018.

由於高性能細分市場的強勁需求，我們最近在 16 納米方面達到了非常高的利用率，我們預計這種勢頭將持續到 2018 年。

Let me now comment on 28-nanometer.

現在讓我評論一下 28 納米。

As we reported in our last Investor Conference, our 22-nanometer will offer a 10% chip area direct shrink and 13.5% speed improvement or 25% power reduction as compared to 28HPC+.

正如我們在上次投資者會議上所報導的那樣，與 28HPC+ 相比，我們的 22 納米將提供 10% 的芯片面積直接縮小和 13.5% 的速度提升或 25% 的功耗降低。

This technology is suitable for applications such as image signal processor, 5G millimeter-wave transceiver, low cost application processor and others.

該技術適用於圖像信號處理器、5G毫米波收發器、低成本應用處理器等應用。

Through continuous technology improvement, we are confident that TSMC's 28, 22-nanometer node will remain very competitive in the market.

通過不斷的技術改進，我們有信心台積電的 28、22 納米節點在市場上將保持極具競爭力。

In 2017, we have observed the highest number of new tape-outs in 28-nanometer as compared to previous years.

與往年相比，2017 年我們觀察到 28 納米的新流片數量最多。

After 6 years of high volume production and millions of 12-inch wafer shipped, we have achieved the lowest defect density and very competitive cost structure for 28-nanometer.

經過 6 年的大批量生產和數百萬顆 12 英寸晶圓的出貨，我們實現了 28 納米的最低缺陷密度和極具競爭力的成本結構。

We believe we are very well positioned to continue to maintain our high market segment share at this node.

我們相信我們有能力繼續在該節點保持較高的市場份額。

Thank you for your attention.

感謝您的關注。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝你。

This concludes our prepared statements.

我們準備好的陳述到此結束。

Before we begin the Q&A session, I would like to remind everybody to limit your questions to 2 at a time to allow all participants an opportunity to ask questions.

在我們開始問答環節之前，我想提醒大家一次將您的問題限制為 2 個，以便所有參與者都有機會提問。

Questions will be taken from both the floor and from the call.

將在現場和電話中提出問題。

Should you wish to raise your questions in Chinese, I will translate it to English before our management answers your question.

如果您想用中文提出問題，我會在管理層回答您的問題之前將其翻譯成英文。

(Operator Instructions) Now, let's begin the Q&A session.

（操作員說明）現在，讓我們開始問答環節。

Our first question comes from the floor, Deutsche Bank's Michael Chou.

我們的第一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Michael Chou。

Hi, C. C., you mentioned 7-nanometer tape-out number more than 50 by year end.

嗨，C.C.，你提到到年底的 7 納米流片數量超過 50 個。

So are half of that for HPC?

那麼HPC的一半呢？

How many of 50 tape-outs are for HPC?

50 個流片中有多少個用於 HPC？

Yes.

是的。

Probably more than half.

可能超過一半。

More than half.

超過一半。

So does that mean that the progress for HPC is stronger than your observation 6 months ago?

那麼這是否意味著 HPC 的進展比您 6 個月前的觀察要強？

Because in the past you say it should be more than half tape-out for HPC for your 30 tape-out 3 months ago, right.

因為過去你說 3 個月前你的 30 個流片應該是 HPC 流片的一半以上，對吧。

So the pattern is the same or --

所以模式是一樣的或者——

Did we say that 6 months ago?

我們在 6 個月前說過嗎？

3 months ago you mentioned that.

3個月前你提到過。

Well, we talk about last time also about 50 -- more than 50% HPC tape-outs.

好吧，我們上次也談到了大約 50——超過 50% 的 HPC 流片。

But that doesn't mean the volume is more than 50%, because many of the high-performance computing in FPGA and in other ASICs there are smaller volumes.

但這並不意味著體積超過 50%，因為 FPGA 和其他 ASIC 中的許多高性能計算的體積較小。

It's just the activity -- it's showing the design activity is pretty strong.

這只是活動——它表明設計活動非常強大。

But I think the performance -- the volume isn't proportional to the tape-out numbers.

但我認為性能——數量與流片數量不成比例。

One follow-up question for 7 -- do you think AI will use 7-nanmoeter in 2018 or 2019, AI product?

7 的一個後續問題——你認為 AI 會在 2018 年還是 2019 年使用 7-nanmoeter，AI 產品？

Tape-outs?

流片？

I don't want to comment on customer products' schedule.

我不想評論客戶產品的時間表。

Second question is regarding your 28-nanometer market share next year.

第二個問題是關於你明年的 28 納米市場份額。

So what is your view for your 28-nanometer market share in 2018-'19?

那麼您對 2018-19 年 28 納米的市場份額有何看法？

28-nonmeter?

28非米？

Yes, comparing your 20-nanomter?

是的，比較你的 20 納米？

We will maintain our high market share.

我們將保持較高的市場份額。

Let's move on to the next question also from the floor, Credit Suisse's Randy Abrams please.

讓我們繼續討論下一個問題，請瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams。

I want to first congratulate you on the 30 years and also your appointments.

我想首先祝賀你 30 年，也祝賀你的任命。

The first question, back to the data center, as you look at pricing that node because you're targeting higher performance applications, is there a potential you could have different pricing or better pricing and better profitability rather than the -- or relative to the mobile tier?

第一個問題，回到數據中心，當您考慮為該節點定價時，因為您的目標是更高性能的應用程序，您是否有可能擁有不同的定價或更好的定價和更好的盈利能力，而不是 - 或相對於移動層？

And just a second small part, the cryptocurrency you mentioned as a long-term driver, but I'm curious in the short-term if you're seeing sustainability of that strength over the next couple of quarters?

只是第二個小部分，你提到的加密貨幣是一個長期驅動因素，但我很好奇短期內你是否看到未來幾個季度這種實力的可持續性？

It has -- first of all, the high-performance computing definitely have potential if we provide high values, but so far we look -- we work with our customer.

它有——首先，如果我們提供高價值，高性能計算肯定有潛力，但到目前為止，我們看起來——我們與客戶合作。

They are in the entry stage.

他們處於入門階段。

We don't see much differences.

我們沒有看到太大的差異。

As for the -- second question is --

至於——第二個問題是——

The crypto --

加密貨幣——

Cryptocurrency, okay.

加密貨幣，好吧。

As you know, the cryptocurrency price is very volatile and -- but in the recent year it has been quite tenacity, keeping at high level.

如你所知，加密貨幣的價格非常不穩定，而且——但在最近一年，它一直相當堅韌，一直保持在高位。

Even with some of the government, because of the monitor issues, they have some constraints.

即使有一些政府，由於監控問題，他們也有一些限制。

But it doesn't seems to be a roadblock at this point.

但在這一點上，這似乎不是一個障礙。

But we look at the cryptocurrency as an initial application for the blockchains.

但我們將加密貨幣視為區塊鏈的初始應用程序。

And as you know, the service company today they offer many blockchain application platforms.

如您所知，今天的服務公司提供許多區塊鏈應用平台。

So it's the technology that is very interesting and it will transform many of the contracts or payment methodology today.

因此，這項技術非常有趣，它將改變當今的許多合同或支付方式。

So that's the reason.

所以這就是原因。

I would not comment on the cryptocurrency sustainability, but we don't see it drop either.

我不會評論加密貨幣的可持續性，但我們也沒有看到它下降。

This second question, back to the profitability, where 10-nanometer ramping is about 300 basis point impact in fourth quarter.

第二個問題，回到盈利能力，10 納米的增長對第四季度的影響約為 300 個基點。

If you could talk next year -- I think 2 questions.

如果你明年可以談——我想有兩個問題。

In first half if mix shifts back, could it be like we saw this year first half where gross margins went to, say, 52%, but saw some improvement in the first half?

如果上半年混合轉向，是否會像我們今年上半年看到的那樣，毛利率達到 52%，但上半年有所改善？

And then if you could talk about the view next year, how much dilution from 10 and if you expect 7 to have a certain amount of dilution?

然後，如果你能談談明年的觀點，從 10 稀釋多少，如果你預計 7 會有一定程度的稀釋？

The 10-nanomter dilution, it's highest this year, so we are ramping very, very fast.

10 納米的稀釋度，是今年最高的，所以我們正在非常非常快地增長。

So the dilution will reduce to about 1 percentage point next year and there will be no dilution after 2018.

所以明年攤薄會減少到1個百分點左右，2018年以後不會攤薄。

So for 7-nanomter, we believe it will follow the similar trend.

因此，對於 7 納米，我們相信它將遵循類似的趨勢。

Actually, I have -- probably I said a couple of times it takes 8 quarters -- 7 to 8 quarters for any particular new node to dilute corporate margin, but after 8 quarters will be similar to corporate level.

實際上，我有 - 可能我說過幾次需要 8 個季度 - 任何特定的新節點需要 7 到 8 個季度來稀釋公司利潤率，但在 8 個季度之後將類似於公司水平。

So 7-nanometer will be at the same trend.

所以 7 納米將處於同樣的趨勢。

And I guess if you think the seasonality of margin, if, say, mix shift is back -- you also have seasonality in first half, but could we see the same scenario where margin, say, starts being higher in first half?

我想如果你認為利潤率的季節性，比如說，混合轉變回來了——你在上半年也有季節性，但我們是否可以看到同樣的情況，比如，利潤率在上半年開始變高？

I think margin has several factors.

我認為保證金有幾個因素。

Number one is structure profitability.

第一是結構盈利能力。

I just made my remark and we are working very hard to maintain close to 50% level.

我剛剛發表了我的評論，我們正在努力保持接近 50% 的水平。

Another factor of course, as you just mentioned, there is a seasonality and that affects utilization.

當然，正如您剛才提到的，另一個因素是季節性，它會影響利用率。

And we'll have to look at the demand on the next year to decide whether the profitability will be different from now.

我們將不得不看明年的需求，以決定盈利能力是否會與現在不同。

Let's move on to the next question, Citigroup's Roland Shu.

讓我們繼續下一個問題，花旗集團的 Roland Shu。

For your 10-nanometer to reach 10% of your total revenue this year, that means 4Q 10-nanometer probably will be about 25% of your total revenue.

如果你的 10 納米技術在今年達到總收入的 10%，這意味著 4 季度 10 納米技術可能會占到你總收入的 25% 左右。

So with this high contribution for 10-nanometer in 4Q, are you worrying for first quarter next year -- that will be -- revenue will be sub-seasonal once our major customer finishes their shipment in 4Q?

因此，鑑於 10 納米在第四季度的巨大貢獻，您是否擔心明年第一季度——那將是——一旦我們的主要客戶在第四季度完成出貨，收入將是次季節性的？

Your calculation is quite close to the number that we have.

您的計算與我們的數字非常接近。

As for next year, actually we did not comment, but there's a seasonality on the smartphone market.

至於明年，實際上我們沒有發表評論，但智能手機市場存在季節性。

So we are -- probably we will follow that seasonality as you just mentioned about.

所以我們 - 可能我們會遵循你剛才提到的那種季節性。

And the impact, don't know yet.

以及影響，還不知道。

But we -- our customer are working on migration to the next node that we're ramping up in the second half of next year.

但是我們——我們的客戶正在努力遷移到我們將在明年下半年增加的下一個節點。

Second question is now -- Mark, also talked about there are more and more smartphone application process integrating, these neural engine for machine learning or AI on the smartphone.

第二個問題是——馬克，也談到了智能手機上集成了越來越多的智能手機應用程序，這些用於機器學習或人工智能的神經引擎在智能手機上。

So going forward, will you improve this smartphone application processor, so with AI function into HPC set?

那麼接下來，您會改進這款智能手機應用處理器，從而將 AI 功能集成到 HPC 套件中嗎？

No, no.

不，不。

We still capitalize whatever happen inside smartphone, yes.

我們仍然利用智能手機內部發生的任何事情，是的。

So with this fast AI adoption for the smartphone, will it change your earning contribution forecast for smartphone and/or HPC?

那麼，隨著智能手機人工智能的快速採用，它會改變您對智能手機和/或 HPC 的收入貢獻預測嗎？

Previously you talked about from 2016 to 2020 TSMC revenue will grow about 5% to 10%.

之前你講過2016年到2020年台積電營收會增長5%到10%左右。

Out of this 5% to 10%, 50% will come from smartphone and 25% from HPC.

在這 5% 到 10% 中，50% 將來自智能手機，25% 來自 HPC。

Now, with this fast AI adoption on smartphone, will it change your view on that?

現在，隨著智能手機上人工智能的快速普及，它會改變你對此的看法嗎？

We forecast at the -- AI I think 2 years ago, yes.

我們在 - 我認為 2 年前預測的人工智能，是的。

So we have been observing this market very early on, and with time, we always incorporate into our forecast already.

所以我們很早就開始觀察這個市場，隨著時間的推移，我們總是已經將其納入我們的預測中。

Today I just raised that this year's outlook appears to be better than last year's.

今天我剛剛提出，今年的前景似乎比去年好。

One of you asked me this question, yes.

有人問我這個問題，是的。

For this HP -- or for this application processors for AI on smartphone, is InFO a must to package this kind of the chip?

對於這個惠普——或者這個智能手機上的人工智能應用處理器，InFO 是否必須封裝這種芯片？

I cannot comment whether InFO is a must, but InFO definitely improve the performance and enhance the competitiveness of that device in the market.

我無法評論 InFO 是否是必須的，但 InFO 肯定會提高性能並增強該設備在市場上的競爭力。

All right.

好的。

Let's take the next question from the floor, UBS' Bill Lu.

讓我們回答下一個問題，UBS 的 Bill Lu。

And also, Dr. Liu and Dr. Wei, congrats on the new appointment.

此外，劉博士和魏博士祝賀新任命。

First question is for Dr. Liu.

第一個問題是給劉博士的。

You talked about a wafer TAM opportunity for HPC of TWD 11.5 billion.

您談到了 115 億新台幣的 HPC 晶圓 TAM 機會。

Can you talk about how that is defined?

你能談談這是如何定義的嗎？

And also, I've spoken to a few of your customers recently.

而且，我最近與你們的一些客戶進行了交談。

It sounds like machine learning and parallel compute, high bandwidth memory and putting that all together in very close is going to be pretty key.

這聽起來像是機器學習和並行計算、高帶寬內存，並且將它們緊密結合在一起將是非常關鍵的。

Can you give us an update on your outlook on CoWoS?

您能否向我們介紹一下您對 CoWoS 的看法？

Our definition of high-performance computing, including the CPU, GPU, FPGA, gaming and some ASIC processors, we call XPU, they are different company produced processor units, and that's the definition.

我們對高性能計算的定義，包括CPU、GPU、FPGA、遊戲和一些ASIC處理器，我們稱之為XPU，它們是不同公司生產的處理器單元，就是這樣定義的。

Sorry, wafer TAM meaning --

對不起，wafer TAM 的意思——

Wafer TAM meaning, if those parts being produced by foundry what will be the foundry value for that market.

Wafer TAM 的意思是，如果這些零件由代工廠生產，那麼該市場的代工價值將是多少。

Okay, got it.

好，知道了。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

And the part two of the first question is on CoWoS.

第一個問題的第二部分是關於 CoWoS。

Yes, we are truly excited about our CoWoS and the growth seems higher than we earlier forecasted.

是的，我們對我們的 CoWoS 感到非常興奮，而且增長似乎比我們之前的預測要高。

It is essential for the chip-to-chip, bringing the chip closer, be it memory or other communication chips.

這對於芯片到芯片來說是必不可少的，使芯片更接近，無論是內存還是其他通信芯片。

And I think year-to-year growth if not double, it will be close.

而且我認為，如果不是翻倍，每年的增長就會接近。

Can you give us an outlook on what that might look like next year and also what kind of CapEx is required for CoWoS?

您能否給我們展望一下明年的情況以及 CoWoS 需要什麼樣的資本支出？

As just Mark said, CoWoS, although it's small now, but it's growth momentum is pretty high.

正如剛才Mark所說的，CoWoS雖然現在很小，但是它的成長勢頭還是蠻大的。

We expect very strong growth on CoWoS business next year.

我們預計明年 CoWoS 業務將有非常強勁的增長。

In terms of the CapEx expenditure, I think in the recent few years as InFO still accounts for a majority part of the backend investment, CoWoS is not that high.

在CapEx支出方面，我認為最近幾年InFO仍然佔後端投資的大部分，CoWoS並沒有那麼高。

The second question is for Dr. Wei.

第二個問題是給魏博士的。

If you look at the auto market, you talked about three megatrends: safety, smarter cars and greener cars.

如果你看看汽車市場，你談到了三大趨勢：安全、更智能的汽車和更環保的汽車。

If you look at specifically on the greener cars, right, the EVs, power management, it seems like a lot of these are more niche applications.

如果你特別關注更環保的汽車，對，電動汽車、電源管理，似乎很多都是更小眾的應用。

People are talking about silicon carbide.

人們在談論碳化矽。

I think a lot of it is going to be trailing edge.

我認為其中很多將是落後的。

What's your plan for addressing the EV market?

您針對電動汽車市場有什麼計劃？

Well, I think the EV market is -- there's a lot of electronics component inside.

嗯，我認為電動汽車市場是——裡面有很多電子元件。

The first -- top of my mind is power management, right?

第一個——我最關心的是電源管理，對吧？

You have a huge amount of battery.

你有大量的電池。

You need the power management to make sure that everything is coordinated and deliver the power out.

您需要電源管理來確保一切協調並提供電源。

And then you have a lot of control as compared with previous -- our concept inside a car, engine, control, infotainment to receive the Wi-Fi connectivity.

然後與以前相比，您擁有更多的控制權——我們在汽車、發動機、控制、信息娛樂系統中的概念，以接收 Wi-Fi 連接。

So in the EV's field, I would think that semiconductors' content will greatly increase, because you need a lot of connectivity.

所以在電動汽車領域，我認為半導體的含量會大大增加，因為你需要大量的連接性。

You need a lot of computation also because you collect your environmental information and you need a lot of high-speed computing to make a decision, go, no-go, turn right or something like that.

您還需要大量計算，因為您收集環境信息，並且需要大量高速計算來做出決定，去，不去，右轉或類似的事情。

So a lot of applications.

所以應用很多。

Probably, today we still underestimate this market.

也許，今天我們仍然低估了這個市場。

Maybe just specifically, would TSMC consider silicon carbide?

也許具體來說，台積電會考慮碳化矽嗎？

We do something better than that.

我們做的比這更好。

Okay.

好的。

We have a few callers on the line.

我們有幾個來電者在線。

So, Operator, can we proceed to take the next call from the line please?

那麼，接線員，我們可以繼續接下一個電話嗎？

Yes, we have a question from the line of Brett Simpson of Arete Research.

是的，我們有一個來自 Arete Research 的 Brett Simpson 的問題。

Can you perhaps talk a bit about the ASIC business at TSMC?

您能否談談台積電的 ASIC 業務？

I mean we're seeing significant ASIC activity, particularly system OEMs or hyperscalers, and I can see the Global Unit Chip business is growing a lot.

我的意思是我們看到了重要的 ASIC 活動，特別是系統 OEM 或超大規模製造商，我可以看到全球單元芯片業務正在大幅增長。

So maybe if you can just help by talking broader about ASIC business?

因此，也許您可以通過更廣泛地談論 ASIC 業務來提供幫助？

And I guess traditionally it has been Huawei or Cisco or Apple, but how big is this ASIC business for TSMC and how would you categorize the growth outlook for ASIC at TSM?

我猜傳統上是華為、思科或蘋果，但台積電的 ASIC 業務有多大？您如何對台積電 ASIC 的增長前景進行分類？

Brett, please allow me to repeat your question.

布雷特，請允許我重複你的問題。

Basically, you want to ask about the outlook for the ASIC business at TSMC.

基本上，您想詢問台積電 ASIC 業務的前景。

You pointed out that many system OEMs and hyperscalers are designing ASICs.

您指出，許多系統 OEM 和超大規模製造商都在設計 ASIC。

From your view, GUC is growing a lot.

在您看來，GUC 正在成長。

So you want to understand how does the ASIC business outlook for TSMC look?

因此，您想了解台積電的 ASIC 業務前景如何？

That's right.

這是正確的。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Okay.

好的。

Yes, a lot of processor unit earlier mentioned is in the form of ASICs, because the computation ecosystem is no longer fixed into a 1 platform such as personal computer before.

是的，前面提到的很多處理器單元都是 ASIC 的形式，因為之前的計算生態系統不再像個人電腦那樣固定在一個平台上。

Each company has their own platform.

每個公司都有自己的平台。

Therefore, they tailor their chip design accordingly to get the maximum computation power.

因此，他們相應地調整芯片設計以獲得最大的計算能力。

We -- currently ASIC, we support our customers for those projects.

我們 - 目前是 ASIC，我們支持我們的客戶進行這些項目。

Therefore, our direct customer will still be the design service company, some of the fabless ASICs and some of the regular fabless company that part of their business is designing -- using ASIC capability to expand their business.

因此，我們的直接客戶仍將是設計服務公司、一些無晶圓 ASIC 和一些常規無晶圓公司，他們的部分業務正在設計——使用 ASIC 能力來擴展他們的業務。

So all this funnel into our loading, which we do not categorize as ASIC, but it is all forms of ASIC coming to our foundry services.

因此，所有這些都進入了我們的負載，我們不將其歸類為 ASIC，但它是所有形式的 ASIC 進入我們的代工服務。

And it is growing.

而且它正在增長。

I don't -- therefore, I don't have the specific number for you.

我沒有——因此，我沒有給你的具體號碼。

Okay, Brett, do you want -- do you have a follow-up?

好的，布雷特，你想要 - 你有後續嗎？

Just a follow-up.

只是一個後續。

Sure.

當然。

On 16-nanometer, you've reported 16-nanometer sales down year-on-year for the first time, down over 20% year-on-year.

在 16 納米方面，您首次報告 16 納米銷售額同比下降，同比下降超過 20%。

And I know you referenced a lot of growth in cryptocurrency which is using 16-nanometer.

我知道你提到了使用 16 納米的加密貨幣的大量增長。

Can you maybe just talk a bit about what has happened at 16-nanometer at TSMC?

你能不能簡單談談台積電在 16 納米製程上發生了什麼？

And when you look ahead -- I think you talked about the tape-out activity for 28 and 7-nanometer being very strong, but how would you categorize the 16 and 12 nanometer tape-out activity for TSMC going forward?

當你展望未來時——我認為你談到了 28 和 7 納米的流片活動非常強大，但你如何對台積電未來的 16 和 12 納米流片活動進行分類？

Okay.

好的。

Brett, please also let me just make sure that we understood your question right.

布雷特，也請讓我確保我們正確理解了您的問題。

So, Brett, you're saying that our 16-nanometer sales were down about 20% year-on-year in the third quarter, but we had also higher growth in cryptocurrencies.

所以，布雷特，你是說我們的 16 納米銷售額在第三季度同比下降了約 20%，但我們在加密貨幣方面的增長也更高。

So you want us to talk about what has happened in 16-nanometer in the past.

所以你想讓我們談談過去在 16 納米上發生了什麼。

And then we've also talked about that we have very strong tape-outs at 28 and 7-nanomete, but then how does the outlook for 16/12 look going forward.

然後我們還談到了我們在 28 和 7 納米的流片非常強大，但是 16/12 的前景如何展望未來。

Is that correct?

那是對的嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

That's great.

那太棒了。

Let me comment on the 16 FinFET first.

讓我先評論一下 16 FinFET。

16 FinFET has been a very successful node for TSMC, but we continue to improve the performance with the introduction of 12FFC.

16 FinFET 對台積電來說是一個非常成功的節點，但隨著 12FFC 的引入，我們會繼續提高性能。

Now, recently I just reported that we have a very high utilization because of high-performance computing demand and we look at -- forward into 2018; 16 and 12-nanometer node will continue this high utilization momentum for next year and probably going to the other year also, all right?

現在，最近我剛剛報告說，由於高性能計算需求，我們的利用率非常高，我們展望——展望 2018 年； 16 和 12 納米節點將在明年繼續保持這種高利用率勢頭，並且可能還會延續到下一年，好嗎？

So what is the other questions?

那麼其他問題是什麼？

Brett, does that answer your question?

布雷特，這能回答你的問題嗎？

Yes, that's great.

是的，那太好了。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝你。

We will take the next question also from the line.

我們也將從該行中提出下一個問題。

Operator, please?

接線員，請說？

The next question comes from Mehdi Hosseini of SIG.

下一個問題來自 SIG 的 Mehdi Hosseini。

A couple of follow-ups.

幾個後續。

Regarding your CapEx statement, how much of the next year CapEx are you going to attribute to new facility because I'm on the impression that you're going to build a new fab for 3-nanometer application and it will be great if we could get a color on the mix of CapEx for next year?

關於您的資本支出聲明，您將在明年將多少資本支出歸因於新設施，因為我的印像是您將為 3 納米應用建立一個新的晶圓廠，如果我們可以的話，那就太好了了解明年的資本支出組合？

And I have a follow-up.

我有一個後續行動。

Okay, sorry, Mehdi.

好的，對不起，邁赫迪。

Let me repeat your question to make sure we got it right.

讓我重複你的問題，以確保我們做對了。

So your first question is, we talked about CapEx, how much of next year's CapEx is related to 3-nanometer.

所以你的第一個問題是，我們談到了資本支出，明年的資本支出有多少與 3 納米有關。

Is that correct?

那是對的嗎？

And also the associated new facility construction.

以及相關的新設施建設。

So facilities associated with 3-nanometer.

所以設施與 3 納米有關。

Okay.

好的。

No, no CapEx will be associate with 3-nanometer next year.

不，明年沒有資本支出與 3 納米相關聯。

It's still too far away from --

還差太遠——

Right.

正確的。

But will you keep building a new fab next year?

但是明年你會繼續建造新的晶圓廠嗎？

I'm sorry, can you repeat that?

對不起，你能再說一遍嗎？

Will next year CapEx include construction of the new fab?

明年的資本支出是否包括新工廠的建設？

Will next year's CapEx include construction of a new fab.

明年的資本支出將包括新工廠的建設。

Yes, next year CapEx will include the construction for 5-nanometer and a little bit for 7-nanometer as well.

是的，明年資本支出將包括 5 納米和一點 7 納米的結構。

And I have a follow-up regarding the transition from the 7 to 7-nanometer plus.

我對從 7 納米到 7 納米以上的過渡進行了跟進。

Assuming that the EUV insertion will happen at 7-nanometer plus, how will your customers will be planning for the mask set?

假設 EUV 插入將發生在 7 納米以上，您的客戶將如何規劃掩模組？

I'm under the impression that 7-nanometer plus will require a new mask and layout.

我的印像是 7 納米以上將需要新的掩模和佈局。

And would EUV essentially cannibalize demand for 7-nanometer?

EUV 會從本質上蠶食 7 納米的需求嗎？

Okay, Mehdi, let me repeat your question.

好的，Mehdi，讓我重複你的問題。

Again, you're asking about the N7 to N7+ transition and the use of EUV at N7+.

同樣，您詢問的是 N7 到 N7+ 的過渡以及在 N7+ 上使用 EUV。

How does this impact or how will your customers impact the mask sets and layout and will EUV cannibalize the demand for 7-nanometer.

這將如何影響或您的客戶將如何影響掩模組和佈局，並將 EUV 蠶食對 7 納米的需求。

So 2 parts to your question.

所以你的問題分為兩部分。

All right, let me answer.

好吧，我來回答。

Let me answer the N7 to N7+.

讓我回答 N7 到 N7+。

Yes, we're going to use a few layer of EUV in N7+.

是的，我們將在 N7+ 中使用幾層 EUV。

And as a result, the chip area will be shrunk and the customer has to retape-out if they are using -- talking about the 7 product, they have to retape-out to get the benefit.

結果，芯片面積將縮小，客戶在使用時必須重流片——談到7產品，他們必須重流片才能獲得收益。

That's for sure.

這是肯定的。

And is that going to penalize the N7?

那會懲罰N7嗎？

No.

不。

Because of a lot of design rule has been utilize in N7+ also.

由於許多設計規則也已在 N7+ 中使用。

So in fact from N7 to N7+, we expect customer don't have to spend 100% of their resources again to design a new node.

所以實際上從 N7 到 N7+，我們希望客戶不必再次花費 100% 的資源來設計新節點。

Actually, it's not.

事實上，它不是。

Okay?

好的？

Did I answer the question?

我回答問題了嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Let's come back to the floor for further questions.

讓我們回到地板上進一步提問。

Morgan Stanley's Charlie Chan please?

請問摩根士丹利的陳查理？

So my first question is to follow-up Bill's question on foundry TAM.

所以我的第一個問題是跟進比爾關於代工 TAM 的問題。

Do you include that x86 CPU in your foundry TAM?

您是否將 x86 CPU 包含在您的代工廠 TAM 中？

For example, Intel 100% in-house, right.

例如，英特爾 100% 在內部，對。

AMD outsources to foundries.

AMD 外包給代工廠。

So how do you count this x86 CPU in your foundry TAM?

那麼如何計算代工廠 TAM 中的 x86 CPU 呢？

Charlie, you're asking about the HPC wafer TAM?

查理，你問的是 HPC 晶圓 TAM 嗎？

Yes, yes.

是的是的。

Right.

正確的。

Well, this is a little bit sensitive and there are only two customers doing x86.

嗯，這有點敏感，只有兩個客戶在做 x86。

So I wouldn't want to comment on specific customers.

所以我不想評論特定的客戶。

And my next question is regarding the management transition -- again, congrats for your new role.

我的下一個問題是關於管理過渡的——再次祝賀你擔任新職務。

So my question is more general.

所以我的問題更籠統。

What's going to be the key change in operation or strategy that both Co-CEOs want to make in the coming 3 years and also what's the challenge you can foresee without Dr. Chang's guidance for the company?

未來 3 年，兩位聯席首席執行官希望在運營或戰略方面做出哪些關鍵變化？如果沒有常博士對公司的指導，您可以預見的挑戰是什麼？

Well, yes, there's a challenge because of Dr. Morris Chang's achievement.

嗯，是的，因為Morris Chang 博士的成就，這是一個挑戰。

You just cannot go better beyond that.

你不能做得更好。

For the philosophy, strategy, operation, I believe it will be continuous and I believe I will work with Mark for many years and we will cooperate with each other for sure, no problem.

對於理念、戰略、運營，我相信會一直持續下去，我相信我會和馬克一起工作很多年，我們一定會合作，沒有問題。

Mark?

標記？

Well, next June will be the time, not yet today.

好吧，明年六月將是時間，而不是今天。

And I think C. C. Wei has many strengths.

而且我認為C. C. Wei有很多優點。

He can be an excellent CEO.

他可以成為一名出色的CEO。

So the challenge will be not that big.

所以挑戰不會那麼大。

And I will of course tune myself to serve up to my best to the new role of the Chairmanship and I should be able to deal with it.

我當然會調整自己，盡我最大的努力擔任主席的新角色，我應該能夠處理好它。

And Chairman today is working closely with me and C. C. and we are constantly working together to go through this transition.

今天的主席正與我和 C. C. 密切合作，我們一直在共同努力以完成這一過渡。

So by June next year, I think the role will be already pretty much defined in place.

所以到明年 6 月，我認為這個角色已經基本確定了。

So it will still take 8 months for us to make this transition I think.

所以我認為我們仍然需要 8 個月的時間來完成這個過渡。

But I'm confident that we can make that transition, yes.

但我相信我們可以實現這一轉變，是的。

We wish the transition will be very smooth.

我們希望過渡會非常順利。

And my next question is to Lora on some financial numbers implication.

我的下一個問題是對 Lora 的一些財務數字的影響。

So I would assume next year CapEx to be flat, right, because this year it's TWD 10.8 billion.

所以我會假設明年資本支出持平，對，因為今年是 108 億新台幣。

Next year it's at a few percentage above TWD 10 billion, right?

明年是100億新台幣以上的幾個百分點，對吧？

So given the CapEx is flat and you're targeting for like 5%, 10% revenue CAGR, is it fair to assume you already think your capital intensity will decline in coming years?

因此，鑑於資本支出持平，並且您的目標是 5%、10% 的收入複合年增長率，假設您已經認為您的資本密集度將在未來幾年下降，是否公平？

I think I have said -- when I talk about this TWD 10 billion, I also said in the next few years I believe our capital intensity will be in the range of 30% to 35%.

我想我已經說過了——當我談到這個 100 億新台幣時，我也說過未來幾年我相信我們的資本密集度將在 30% 到 35% 的範圍內。

So right now the CapEx looks like it will be slightly higher than TWD 10 billion, but I still believe the capital intensity will still be in the range of 30% to 35%.

所以現在資本支出看起來會略高於100億新台幣，但我仍然相信資本密集度仍將在30%至35%之間。

And also, on that margin guidance, right?

而且，在那個保證金指導上，對吧？

So I guess people ask about gross margin for 7-nanometer versus 10, HPC versus other application.

所以我猜人們會問 7 納米與 10 納米、HPC 與其他應用程序的毛利率。

But how about the EBITDA margin you're making from 7-nanometer versus 10-nanometer?

但是，您從 7 納米與 10 納米獲得的 EBITDA 利潤率如何？

Because I think that for 10-nanometer I guess the yield rate ramp was a little bit slow early this year.

因為我認為對於 10 納米，我猜今年年初良率上升有點慢。

I would assume for 7-nanometer the yield rate ramp should be better and also you're converting some tools from 10-nanometer, right?

我會假設 7 納米的良率斜坡應該更好，而且您正在轉換 10 納米的一些工具，對嗎？

So I just want to get a sense about the EBITDA margin level for 7 versus 10?

所以我只想了解 7 對 10 的 EBITDA 利潤率水平？

I will talk about the corporate level EBITDA margin first.

我將首先談談企業層面的 EBITDA 利潤率。

I think in the past few years, our corporate level EBITDA margin has been ranging from 60% to 65%.

我認為在過去的幾年裡，我們企業層面的 EBITDA 利潤率一直在 60% 到 65% 之間。

You can calculate by yourself.

你可以自己計算。

This number is going to maintain, as far as I can see, in the next few years.

據我所知，這個數字將在未來幾年內保持不變。

In terms of who contribute that EBITDA margin, you're asking particularly about the 7-nanometer?

至於誰貢獻了 EBITDA 利潤率，您特別問的是 7 納米嗎？

Right.

正確的。

Okay.

好的。

I think you can understand the first few years for any new node the EBITDA margin should be [below corporate average] [corrected by company after the call].

我認為您可以理解任何新節點的前幾年 EBITDA 利潤率應該 [低於公司平均水平] [在電話會議後由公司更正]。

But after it reach to the mass production, it will ramp up very fast.

但在達到量產後，它會迅速上升。

So for a period of the time it will be higher than corporate average EBITDA margin and then fall back to corporate level.

因此在一段時間內，它將高於企業平均 EBITDA 利潤率，然後回落至企業水平。

So that's -- I think you can understand that.

那就是——我想你可以理解這一點。

7-nanometer will also follow that trend.

7納米也將遵循這一趨勢。

Yeah, I think that will be the case, right, because your margin guidance is 50% and this quarter your guidance is 48% to 50%.

是的，我認為會是這樣，對，因為你的利潤率指導是 50%，而本季度你的指導是 48% 到 50%。

So lastly, if I may very quick?

最後，如果我可以很快？

So one of your big smartphone customer their new chip is 30% smaller than previous die size, right?

因此，您的大型智能手機客戶之一，他們的新芯片比以前的芯片尺寸小 30%，對吧？

So I understand your comment about more smartphone semi content, but your customer is also shrinking the die size, right?

所以我理解你對更多智能手機半內容的評論，但你的客戶也在縮小芯片尺寸，對嗎？

What does it mean to your wafer revenue for next generation -- for example, 7-nanometer?

這對您的下一代晶圓收入意味著什麼——例如，7 納米？

You are asking that my customers' product die size --

你問我客戶的產品模具尺寸——

Yes, he is --

恩，他是 -

-- is 30% smaller?

-- 是小了 30% 嗎？

Yes, so two trends, right?

是的，有兩種趨勢，對吧？

Semi content per smartphone is growing, but your customers' die size are shrinking.

每部智能手機的半內容正在增長，但您客戶的芯片尺寸正在縮小。

So what does it mean to the wafer demand for your smartphone business?

那麼這對您的智能手機業務的晶圓需求意味著什麼？

First, I don't comment on my customers' die size, you know that.

首先，我不評論我的客戶的模具尺寸，你知道的。

We build the capacity according to what the customers demand is.

我們根據客戶的需求來構建產能。

That is all I can say.

這就是我能說的。

And then the 10-nanometer for this year will contribute 10% of the total wafer revenue.

然後今年的 10 納米將貢獻 10% 的晶圓總收入。

That's it.

而已。

I think we need to move on.

我認為我們需要繼續前進。

Next question from the floor, CLSA's Sebastian Hou.

下一個問題，里昂證券的 Sebastian Hou。

So my first question is regarding the growth outlook for CPU with your high-performance computing segment.

所以我的第一個問題是關於高性能計算領域 CPU 的增長前景。

Do you see -- or are you more confident in the ARM-based CPU or x86 CPU if we just look at next 2 years for your growth?

如果我們只看未來 2 年的增長，您是否看到 - 或者您對基於 ARM 的 CPU 或 x86 CPU 更有信心？

Mostly ARM-based CPU what we are working on with our customers.

我們與客戶合作的主要是基於 ARM 的 CPU。

So you don't see x86 CPU to be a part of the driver for next 2 years?

所以你認為 x86 CPU 不會成為未來 2 年驅動程序的一部分嗎？

Then that is too specific to comment because that's only 1 customer.

那太具體了，無法評論，因為那隻是 1 個客戶。

And my second question is on the 7 nanometers and your 7-nanometer plus.

我的第二個問題是關於 7 納米和你的 7 納米加。

If you look at next 2 years together, do you have a sense or estimate regarding how much market share you have on this node 7 and 7+ together?

如果您一起看未來 2 年，您是否對您在此節點 7 和 7+ 上的市場份額有多少感覺或估計？

Certainly, I myself hope that is as high as possible, but today I don't have a number to give to you.

當然，我自己希望盡可能高，但是今天我沒有數字可以給你。

But we work with many, many customers, and as I said, at the end of 2018 we expect to have 50 tape-outs and it's a very -- kind of vigorous activities.

但我們與很多很多客戶合作，正如我所說，到 2018 年底，我們預計會有 50 個流片，這是一項非常 - 一種充滿活力的活動。

But what if we just compare that with the 16 nanometers share you have in 2015, would that be higher?

但是，如果我們僅將其與 2015 年的 16 納米份額進行比較，會不會更高？

I mean 7 would be higher than the 16-nanometer at that time?

我的意思是 7 會比當時的 16 納米高嗎？

That will be too specific.

那太具體了。

I mean you're talking about a -- so I don't want to comment, but we are going to have very higher market share.

我的意思是你說的是——所以我不想發表評論，但我們將擁有更高的市場份額。

So just a follow-up on that.

所以只是跟進。

7, 7+, is that -- do you see a major -- most of your customers will migrate to 7+ after using 7?

7、7+，是不是——你看到一個專業——你的大多數客戶在使用 7 後會遷移到 7+？

I think after 7 we certainly will, with our customer, to migrate into 7+ if that is in their product roadmap, because of -- somehow the 7+ offer a 20% logic area, density improvement.

我認為在 7 之後，我們肯定會與我們的客戶一起遷移到 7+，如果這在他們的產品路線圖中，因為 - 7+ 以某種方式提供了 20% 的邏輯面積和密度改進。

But we're working with customers.

但我們正在與客戶合作。

But I cannot comment and say that everyone will go to the 7+.

但我不能評論說每個人都會去7+。

Let's move on.

讓我們繼續。

We have -- let's take, Operator, the next question from the line as well please.

接線員，我們還有下一個問題。

We have a question from Steven Pelayo of HSBC.

我們有一個來自匯豐銀行的 Steven Pelayo 的問題。

First question, just a clarification to your answer -- I think it was to Roland's question on 10-nanometer in the first quarter.

第一個問題，只是為了澄清你的答案——我認為這是第一季度羅蘭關於 10 納米的問題。

Your response was you expect normal seasonality.

您的回答是您期望正常的季節性。

The fourth quarter is actually quite a bit above historical seasonality.

第四季度實際上遠高於歷史季節性。

So could you speak a little bit more on what happens to 10-nanometer in the first quarter?

那麼，您能否多談談第一季度 10 納米會發生什麼？

Does it still sustain the same dollar level?

它仍然維持相同的美元水平嗎？

Help me understand the trend of 10-nanometer?

幫我了解10納米的趨勢？

So your first question, Steven, is about the 10-nanometer.

所以你的第一個問題，史蒂文，是關於 10 納米的。

You want to know in the first quarter of 2018 if the 10-nanometer revenue will sustain the same level.

你想知道 2018 年第一季度 10 納米的收入是否會保持在同一水平。

I'll give you the guidance next time.

下次我給你指導。

-- in the first quarter next year.

——明年第一季度。

Okay, fair enough on that.

好吧，在這點上很公平。

And then maybe a little longer term question.

然後可能是一個更長期的問題。

Both kind of leading edge as well as mainstream, it seems there's a lot of Chinese capacity that's going up -- capacity in China that's going in with four or five different fabs that are going on.

無論是領先優勢還是主流，中國的產能似乎都在上升——中國的產能正在與四五家不同的晶圓廠同步。

I'm curious, what do you think about the competitive landscape with the Chinese supply?

我很好奇，您如何看待中國供應的競爭格局？

Do you think that presents a risk out there of excess supply at some point?

你認為這會在某個時候帶來供應過剩的風險嗎？

That's I think more in the mainstream kind of.

這是我認為更多的主流類型。

And then it also seems like on the leading edge nodes, all 3 of your competitors, Intel, Samsung and Global Foundries, have made a lot of noise in the last 90 days or so trying to pitch their foundry offerings and claiming their execution has got better.

然後似乎在前沿節點上，你的所有 3 個競爭對手，英特爾、三星和 Global Foundries，在過去 90 天左右的時間裡都發出了很大的噪音，試圖推銷他們的代工產品並聲稱他們的執行已經更好的。

Any thoughts on leading edge competitive landscape?

對領先的競爭格局有何想法？

Okay, Steven, let me just repeat your question.

好的，史蒂文，讓我重複你的問題。

It seems to be a long-term question on the competitive landscape, two parts.

這似乎是一個關於競爭格局的長期問題，分為兩個部分。

The first is to address the China capacity.

一是解決中國產能問題。

You're saying that you're seeing many different -- much, sorry, capacity being added in China, four to five different fabs.

你是說你看到了許多不同的——很多，抱歉，中國正在增加產能，有四到五個不同的晶圓廠。

So what does this mean for the competitive landscape.

那麼這對競爭格局意味著什麼。

Will this result in excess supply risk in the mainstream.

這是否會導致主流供應過剩風險。

This is the first part of your question.

這是你問題的第一部分。

And then the second part is to address the competition at leading edge with Intel and Samsung and you're saying -- you're talking about better execution, et cetera.

然後第二部分是解決與英特爾和三星的領先競爭，你說 - 你在談論更好的執行等等。

How do we view the competition at leading edge.

我們如何看待處於領先地位的競爭。

So two parts to your question, correct?

所以你的問題有兩個部分，對嗎？

Fair enough.

很公平。

Yes.

是的。

Regarding to a lot of new fabs in Mainland, China -- and the question is whether that's --

關於中國大陸的許多新晶圓廠——問題是這是否——

Whether the additional capacity being built in China, what does this mean for the competitive landscape, will it result in excess supply risk at mainstream nodes.

中國正在建設的額外產能，這對競爭格局意味著什麼，是否會導致主流節點的供應過剩風險。

We believe that if you build a fab, you should come with technology, and most important, with a customer.

我們相信，如果你建造一座晶圓廠，你應該擁有技術，最重要的是，擁有客戶。

So a lot of fabs.

所以很多晶圓廠。

Previously, we talk about effective capacity.

之前，我們講的是有效容量。

That means you got to have a technology, you got to have a customer.

這意味著你必須擁有一項技術，你必須擁有一個客戶。

So in terms of a lot of fabs in Mainland, China, we don't like it, but we are very competitive.

所以就中國大陸的很多晶圓廠而言，我們不喜歡它，但我們很有競爭力。

So we will continue to compete of course and maintain our market share.

因此，我們當然會繼續競爭並保持我們的市場份額。

Okay.

好的。

And then the second part of Steven's question, competition at the leading edge with Intel and Samsung.

然後是史蒂文問題的第二部分，與英特爾和三星的領先優勢競爭。

Well, we always -- in the leading edge, we always live with fierce competition in the past.

好吧，我們總是——處於領先地位，我們總是生活在過去的激烈競爭中。

In today's -- I think -- but those are foundries competitions.

在今天 - 我認為 - 但那些是代工廠比賽。

Now, these 2 -- IDMs are getting into foundry business too, but one of our advantage is we do not compete with our customers and that plays a major role in us to earn the trust from our customers.

現在，這 2 個 IDM 也進入了代工業務，但我們的優勢之一是我們不與客戶競爭，這在我們贏得客戶信任方面起著重要作用。

But we don't take any competition lightly.

但我們不會掉以輕心。

We will just compete with them.

我們只會與他們競爭。

Let's come back to the floor, first Goldman Sachs' Donald Lu.

讓我們回到地板上，首先是高盛的唐納德·盧。

(foreign language).

（外語）。

Okay, please allow me to translate Donald's question.

好的，請允許我翻譯唐納德的問題。

First, he said congratulations to Dr. Liu and Dr. Wei on the smooth transition.

他首先對劉博士和魏博士順利交接表示祝賀。

And then your first question is that you said our computing segment revenue showed -- displayed strong growth in the third quarter and you want to know how much of this is coming from the cryptocurrency segment, correct?

然後你的第一個問題是，你說我們的計算部門收入在第三季度顯示出強勁增長，你想知道其中有多少來自加密貨幣部門，對嗎？

Okay.

好的。

Well, in the third quarter, the cryptocurrency revenue is about USD 350 million to USD 400 million.

那麼，在第三季度，加密貨幣收入約為 3.5 億美元至 4 億美元。

So it's pretty big and it's a pick up from the third quarter and stay on for the fourth quarter.

所以它非常大，從第三季度開始有所回升，並一直持續到第四季度。

Okay.

好的。

And the second part of your -- your second question, Donald Lu?

你的第二部分——你的第二個問題，Donald Lu？

(foreign language)

（外語）

Sorry.

對不起。

Please allow me to translate.

請允許我翻譯。

Donald's follow-up is that if cryptocurrency gets bigger, will this result in exponential growth and also looking to 2018.

唐納德的後續行動是，如果加密貨幣變得更大，這會導致指數級增長，並展望 2018 年。

We -- of course our customer is always very bullish on their demand for the next year, but we count it cautiously.

我們——當然，我們的客戶總是非常看好他們對明年的需求，但我們謹慎計算。

So we currently are trying to work out with the customer, anticipate possible volatility and -- but try to still support that.

因此，我們目前正在嘗試與客戶合作，預測可能的波動性，並且 - 但仍試圖支持這一點。

Hopefully, next year will be higher, but we do not count on that.

希望明年會更高，但我們不指望這一點。

So do you have a second question?

那麼你還有第二個問題嗎？

Yes, the second question is on the 28-nanometer.

是的，第二個問題是關於 28 納米的。

I think SMIC recently has hired a new CEO, which both of you probably are familiar with.

我想中芯國際最近聘請了一位新的 CEO，你們可能都很熟悉。

And also there's Huali and UMC also building capacity on 28.

還有華立和聯電也在28日進行產能建設。

But I checked the 28-nanometer demand at least in the first half this year among all the foundries increased about 10% only.

但我查了一下，今年上半年所有代工廠中28納米的需求至少增長了10%左右。

And you said -- C. C. said there's more tape-out activities.

你說——C. C. 說還有更多的流片活動。

But in terms of growth and demand and also in terms of supply, if those guys build-up capacity and build-up technology, do you think there will be a real price bloodbath next year?

但就增長和需求以及供應而言，如果這些傢伙建立產能和建立技術，你認為明年會有真正的價格大屠殺嗎？

First, the technology, TSMC continues to improve the technology.

一是技術，台積電不斷完善技術。

Now, we improve on 28HPC+ to 22-nanometer now.

現在，我們將 28HPC+ 改進為 22 納米。

So it's very competitive and our cost structure also very competitive.

所以它非常有競爭力，我們的成本結構也非常有競爭力。

So we have all the weapon to defend our high market segment share in this node -- and we will.

所以我們有所有的武器來捍衛我們在這個節點的高市場份額——我們會的。

Did that answer your question?

這回答了你的問題嗎？

Because -- do you want me to nail down that -- how many percentage?

因為 - 你想讓我確定 - 百分之多少？

More -- for next year do you think 28-nanometer overall demand for all the foundries will increase, let's say, more than the first half of this year, which is 10%?

更多——你認為明年所有代工廠的 28 納米整體需求會增加嗎，比方說，比今年上半年增加 10%？

And also for next year if they build capacity more than 10%, then could we have a real price problem?

如果他們明年的產能增加超過 10%，那麼我們會遇到真正的價格問題嗎？

Well, I don't comment on competitors' build-up of their capacity.

好吧，我不評論競爭對手的能力建設。

All we can do is -- we develop technology.

我們所能做的就是——我們開發技術。

We have the customer working with us.

我們有客戶與我們合作。

And we believe we maintain the market segment share.

我們相信我們保持市場份額。

And the demand will increase.

而且需求會增加。

Okay?

好的？

Are you satisfied?

你滿意嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Let's move on.

讓我們繼續。

I think we have 1 question from Gokul Hariharan from JP Morgan in the front.

我想我們前面有來自 JP Morgan 的 Gokul Hariharan 的 1 個問題。

So on 7-nanometer, Dr. Wei, first question is, it looks like there is a lot of -- a confluence of positive factors in terms of HPC coming in and I think there is a lot of AI-related demand also coming.

所以關於 7 納米，魏博士，第一個問題是，看起來有很多 - 在 HPC 方面的積極因素的匯合，我認為也有很多與人工智能相關的需求。

Could you take an initial stab at where you think 7-nanometer -- maybe 7 immersion and 7 -- N7 and N7+ combined could be in terms of revenue opportunity for the industry compared to, say, the last peak was 28-nanometer?

與上一個峰值是 28 納米相比，您能否初步了解一下您認為 7 納米（可能是 7 沉浸式和 7 納米）N7 和 N7+ 的組合可能為行業帶來的收入機會？

That was my first question.

那是我的第一個問題。

We believe N7, N7+ will be a long lasting node and that will be very useful for our customer to utilize that.

我們相信 N7、N7+ 將是一個持久的節點，這對我們的客戶使用它非常有用。

So could you comment a little bit more specifics in terms of is it going to be much bigger than 28?

那麼您能否就它是否會比 28 大得多發表評論更多細節？

Because it looks like 16 is a little bit short --

因為看起來16有點短——

We certainly hope they are much bigger than 28, 28 node, yes

我們當然希望它們比 28、28 節點大得多，是的

Second question.

第二個問題。

Dr. Liu, you mentioned about the AI demand starting to move from the datacenter to the edge in terms of devices, ADAS, et cetera.

劉博士，您提到在設備、ADAS 等方面，人工智能需求開始從數據中心轉移到邊緣。

Could you talk about how this evolution happens in terms of the foundry TAM itself, the wafer TAM for HPC?

您能否談談這種演變是如何在代工廠 TAM 本身、用於 HPC 的晶圓 TAM 方面發生的？

Do you feel in the next 3 to 4 years the wafer TAM from the edge could start surpassing -- the AI related wafer TAM could start surpassing the wafer TAM that you see in the datacenter?

您是否覺得在未來 3 到 4 年內，來自邊緣的晶圓 TAM 可能會開始超越——與 AI 相關的晶圓 TAM 可能會開始超越您在數據中心看到的晶圓 TAM？

Or some kind of quantitative idea in terms of how you think that evolves?

或者就你認為它是如何演變的而言，某種定量的想法？

I cannot, I cannot.

我不能，我不能。

I think -- I raised that trend to show that AI will be a fast growth, because in the datacenter it is a closed ecosystem.

我認為——我提出這一趨勢是為了表明人工智能將快速增長，因為在數據中心它是一個封閉的生態系統。

Once it goes to the client edge, it's an open system.

一旦它進入客戶端邊緣，它就是一個開放系統。

So innovators will come in easily, so has higher growth potential.

因此，創新者很容易進入，因此具有更高的增長潛力。

I haven't calculate the -- how it will cross over.

我還沒有計算——它將如何跨越。

Maybe I should take a look, yes.

也許我應該看看，是的。

Let's take the next question from the line please, Operator?

接線員，我們來回答下一個問題嗎？

We have a question from Patrick Liao of Macquarie Securities.

我們有一個來自麥格理證券的 Patrick Liao 的問題。

My question -- my first question is about the mobile phone silicon content per box in the next few years.

我的問題——我的第一個問題是關於未來幾年每盒手機的矽含量。

Can I have an idea about this?

我可以對此有所了解嗎？

Okay.

好的。

Let me repeat your question.

讓我重複你的問題。

Patrick, you want to know the mobile phone silicon content per box, what is the outlook for the silicon content per box in mobile phones for the next few years.

帕特里克，你想知道手機每盒矽含量，未來幾年手機每盒矽含量的前景如何。

Yes, correct.

是，對的。

We expect the silicon content for the higher smartphone will continue to grow and for the mid-end to low-end will maintain at a current level.

我們預計高端智能手機的矽含量將繼續增長，中低端的矽含量將保持在當前水平。

Do you have a follow-up second question, Patrick?

你有後續的第二個問題嗎，帕特里克？

Do you expect the seasonality for the next few years to be similar with this year, that is weaker second quarter and stronger second half?

您是否預計未來幾年的季節性與今年相似，即第二季度較弱，下半年較強？

So, Patrick, your question is you want to know that in the next few years do we expect the seasonality pattern to be similar to this year, which is a weaker second quarter and a stronger second half?

所以，帕特里克，你的問題是你想知道，在接下來的幾年裡，我們是否預計季節性模式會與今年相似，即第二季度疲軟和下半年走強？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

We don't know.

我們不知道。

Each year seems to have their own characteristics.

每一年似乎都有自己的特點。

It has to do with the year-end inventory, it has to do with the product launches and just many factors.

它與年終庫存有關，與產品發布和許多因素有關。

So I cannot forecast to be the same.

所以我不能預測是一樣的。

The next question, Operator, also from the line, a follow-up question I believe.

下一個問題，Operator，也是出自該行，我相信是一個後續問題。

Yes, from Mehdi Hosseini of SIG.

是的，來自 SIG 的 Mehdi Hosseini。

When you talk about cryptocurrency, what are some of the applications that are driving your loading?

當您談論加密貨幣時，哪些應用程序正在推動您的加載？

Is that specifically GPU or are there other applications?

那是專門的GPU還是有其他應用程序？

And if you could help me better understand, it will be great.

如果你能幫助我更好地理解，那就太好了。

Mehdi's question is that in regards to cryptocurrency he wants to know what are some of the applications specifically driving the strong demand, is it GPU, what is it specifically.

Mehdi 的問題是，關於加密貨幣，他想知道哪些應用程序專門推動了強勁的需求，是 GPU，具體是什麼。

The customer in the cryptocurrency mining really design their own chip, so we characterize that as a ASIC processor unit.

加密貨幣挖礦的客戶真正設計了自己的芯片，因此我們將其描述為 ASIC 處理器單元。

So those are very different.

所以這些是非常不同的。

It's a very high power, very, very high speed.

這是一個非常高的功率，非常非常高的速度。

So the design is totally customized.

所以設計是完全定制的。

Does that answer your question, Mehdi?

這能回答你的問題嗎，邁赫迪？

Would you actually break this out if it becomes significant in the future, like each category or other --

如果它在未來變得重要，你真的會打破它嗎，就像每個類別或其他 -

Mehdi's question is that will we break out like the ASIC segment specifically if it becomes significantly bigger.

Mehdi 的問題是，如果它變得明顯更大，我們是否會像 ASIC 細分市場那樣爆發。

You mean --

你的意思是 -

In our --

在我們的 -

-- in cryptocurrency?

——在加密貨幣中？

Crypto -- ASIC.

加密——ASIC。

Crypto, ASIC.

加密，ASIC。

We'll see.

走著瞧。

Currently, the volume is not big enough to put a separate characterization.

目前，體積還不夠大，無法單獨進行表徵。

But there are many innovators in this field.

但是這個領域有很多創新者。

People used to use GPUs.

人們過去常常使用 GPU。

Also people use standard CPU also and FPGA also.

人們也使用標準CPU和FPGA。

So it is the combination of all the products that we are producing today.

所以它是我們今天生產的所有產品的組合。

In the interest of time, we'll probably take 2 last questions, one from the line please, Operator, first and then we'll take one from the floor.

考慮到時間，我們可能會回答最後 2 個問題，請先回答一行，接線員，然後我們會回答地板上的一個問題。

So, Operator, please --

所以，接線員，請——

We have a follow-up question from Steven Pelayo.

我們有一個來自 Steven Pelayo 的後續問題。

Yes, we have from Steven Pelayo of HSBC.

是的，我們從匯豐銀行的 Steven Pelayo 那裡得到。

Just one question for Lora.

洛拉只有一個問題。

Congratulations on the good free cash flow in the third quarter.

祝賀第三季度良好的自由現金流。

I want to think about it a little bit going into the next year.

我想在明年考慮一下。

It looks like this year you guys are going to generate maybe $40 million, $50 million more in free cash flow relative to the dividends you pay.

看起來今年你們可能會產生 4,000 萬美元，相對於您支付的股息而言，自由現金流將增加 5,000 萬美元。

So you're still growing your cash balance.

所以你仍在增加你的現金餘額。

And if next year you have kind of flattish CapEx and revenues growing 5%, 10%, it looks like you're going to probably generate even more free cash flow.

如果明年你的資本支出持平，收入增長 5%、10%，看起來你可能會產生更多的自由現金流。

Can you talk a little bit about what's the optimal cash balance and what your thoughts are on maybe dividends going forward?

你能談談什麼是最佳現金餘額以及你對未來股息的看法嗎？

You're right.

你是對的。

And we have been able to grow our free cash flow faster than before, since 2014.

自 2014 年以來，我們的自由現金流增長速度比以前更快。

So therefore, we were able to increase our dividend payout starting from 2015 from $3 to $4.5 to $6 and to $7 this year.

因此，我們能夠從 2015 年開始將股息支付從 3 美元增加到 4.5 美元，再到 6 美元，今年又增加到 7 美元。

So with the CapEx intensity and the EBITDA margin we were talking about, we are very confident about our ability to continue to generate free cash flow in the next few years.

因此，憑藉我們所討論的資本支出強度和 EBITDA 利潤率，我們對未來幾年繼續產生自由現金流的能力非常有信心。

Therefore, we plan to gradually increase the cash dividend payout going forward.

因此，我們計劃未來逐步增加現金分紅。

All right, a final question, Citi Group, Roland Shu.

好的，最後一個問題，花旗集團，Roland Shu。

I think the first question is -- you're talking about the new fab construction.

我認為第一個問題是——你在談論新的晶圓廠建設。

I know in your -- in Taiwan your 12-inch fab is based on this Giga-fab design and now you are building the 12-inch fab in Nanjing.

我知道，在台灣，你們的 12 英寸晶圓廠是基於這種 Giga-fab 設計的，而現在你們正在南京建造 12 英寸晶圓廠。

So is Nanjing also based on this Giga-fab design?

那麼南京也是基於這個Giga-fab設計嗎？

We build the Nanjing fab to expand or to increase our opportunity in Mainland China so we can serve the customer more closely.

我們建立南京工廠是為了擴大或增加我們在中國大陸的機會，以便我們可以更緊密地為客戶服務。

Whether there will be a Giga-fab, it is in our plan, but right now the first phase is 20,000 wafers per month in 16-nanometer.

是否會有 Giga-fab，這是我們的計劃，但目前第一階段是每月 20,000 片 16 納米晶圓。

So do you have the plan for -- to kick off this second phase construction?

那麼您是否有計劃啟動第二階段的建設？

We are not ready to answer this question yet.

我們還沒有準備好回答這個問題。

Then, if I may, last question is on your -- for your 16-nanometer -- can we have a ballpark number of how much revenue is coming from 12-nanometer?

那麼，如果可以的話，最後一個問題是關於你的——對於你的 16 納米——我們能否大致了解 12 納米帶來了多少收入？

And I think the same question as the 22-nanometer -- how much revenue is coming from 22?

我認為與 22 納米相同的問題 - 22 的收入是多少？

Well, the 12-nanometer will be in next year, so I cannot give you an estimated number.

嗯，12納米將在明年，所以我不能給你一個估計的數字。

The same as the 22-nanometer.

與 22 納米相同。

But customer right now is -- design for their product and to be early introduced in the 2018.

但現在的客戶是——為他們的產品設計，並在 2018 年提前推出。

So probably at that time we can give you a more clear picture for that.

所以可能那時我們可以給你一個更清晰的畫面。

Okay, thank you, everyone.

好的，謝謝大家。

This concludes our Q&A session.

我們的問答環節到此結束。

Before we conclude today's conference, please be advised that the replay of the conference will be accessible within 3 hours from now and the transcript will become available 24 hours from now, both of which will be available through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

在我們結束今天的會議之前，請注意，從現在起 3 小時內將提供會議重播，從現在起 24 小時內提供會議記錄，兩者都將通過台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 提供。

So thank you for joining us today.

所以，感謝您今天加入我們。

We hope you will join us again next quarter.

我們希望您能在下個季度再次加入我們。

Goodbye and have a good day.

再見，祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝你。