台積電 ADR (TSM) 2016 Q2 法說會逐字稿

(Spoken in foreign language). Welcome to TSMC's second-quarter 2016 earnings conference and conference call. This is Elizabeth Sun, TSMC's Director of Corporate Communications and your host for today. Today's event is webcast live through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com. If you are joining us via conference call your dial-in lines are in listen-only mode. As this conference is being viewed by investors around the world, we will conduct this event in English only.

（用外語講）。歡迎參加台積電 2016 年第二季度財報電話會議。我是台積電企業傳播總監 Elizabeth Sun，也是今天的主持人。今天的活動通過台積電的網站 www.tsmc.com 進行網絡直播。如果您通過電話會議加入我們，您的撥入線路處於只聽模式。由於世界各地的投資者都在觀看本次會議，因此我們將僅以英語進行本次活動。

The format for today's event will be as follows. First, TSMC's Senior Vice President and CFO, Miss Lora Ho, will summarize our operations in the second quarter of 2016, followed by our guidance for the third quarter of 2016. Afterwards, Miss Ho and TSMC's two Presidents and Co-CEOs, Dr. Mark Liu and Dr. C.C. Wei, will jointly provide our management's key messages. Then we will open both the floor and the line for the Q&A.

今天的活動形式如下。首先，台積電高級副總裁兼首席財務官何珮小姐將總結我們在 2016 年第二季度的運營情況，然後是我們對 2016 年第三季度的指導。隨後，何小姐和台積電的兩位總裁兼聯席首席執行官，博士。 Mark Liu 和 C.C. 博士Wei，將共同提供我們管理層的關鍵信息。然後我們將打開地板和線路進行問答。

For those participants on the call, if you do not yet have a copy of the press release, you may download it from TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com. Please also download the summary slides in relation to today's earnings conference presentation.

對於電話會議的參與者，如果您還沒有新聞稿的副本，您可以從台積電的網站 www.tsmc.com 下載。另請下載與今天的財報會議演示相關的摘要幻燈片。

As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statement. Please refer to the Safe Harbor notice that appears on our press release.

像往常一樣，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含具有重大風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述，這可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中包含的結果存在重大差異。請參閱我們新聞稿中的安全港通知。

And now I would like to turn the podium to TSMC's CFO, Miss Lora Ho, for the summary of operations and current quarter guidance.

現在，我想把講台交給台積電首席財務官 Lora Ho 女士，以了解運營總結和當前季度指導。

Thank you, Elizabeth. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to joining us today. My presentation will start with financial highlights for the second quarter and followed by the guidance for the third quarter.

謝謝你，伊麗莎白。大家下午好。歡迎今天加入我們。我的演講將從第二季度的財務亮點開始，然後是第三季度的指導。

We had a good second quarter. Our second-quarter revenue increased 9% sequentially to TWD222b, exceeding the high end of our guidance given in April, due to business upside resulting from the demand increases in mid- and low-end smartphones and customer inventory restocking.

我們有一個很好的第二季度。我們第二季度的收入環比增長 9% 至 TWD222b，超過了我們 4 月份給出的指導的高端，原因是中低端智能手機的需求增加和客戶庫存補貨帶來了業務上行空間。

Gross margin was also ahead of expectation and increased by 6.6 percentage point Q over Q to a record high of 51.5%, mainly driven by improvement in utilization rate and cost reduction efforts, partially offset by an unfavorable foreign exchange rate. Operating margin also increased by a similar magnitude to reach 41.2%.

毛利率也超預期，環比增長 6.6 個百分點，達到 51.5% 的歷史新高，主要是由於利用率提高和降低成本的努力，部分被不利的匯率所抵消。營業利潤率也以類似幅度增長，達到 41.2%。

As we highlighted last quarter, we incurred a higher income tax in the second quarter. The corporate tax rate rose to 23% as we accrued the 10% on undistributed retained earnings. And we estimate the 2016 full-year tax rate to be about 14%.

正如我們在上個季度強調的那樣，我們在第二季度產生了更高的所得稅。由於我們對未分配的留存收益計提了 10%，因此公司稅率上升至 23%。我們估計 2016 年全年稅率約為 14%。

Overall, our second-quarter EPS reached TWD2.80, an 8.7% decline year over year, mainly due to a non-recurring share disposal gain from ASML and Vanguard in the second quarter last year. Excluding the one-off items, second-quarter EPS actually grew 17% year over year.

總體而言，我們第二季度每股收益達到 2.80 新台幣，同比下降 8.7%，主要是由於去年第二季度 ASML 和 Vanguard 的非經常性股票出售收益。不計一次性項目，第二季度每股收益實際上同比增長 17%。

Now let's take a look at revenue contribution by application. During the second quarter communication was flat from the prior quarter, while computer, consumer, industrial and standard increased by 19%, 80% and a 12% respectively.

現在讓我們看一下應用程序的收入貢獻。第二季度通信與上一季度持平，而計算機、消費類、工業和標準分別增長了 19%、80% 和 12%。

Now how about revenue by technology? Combined revenue from 16-nanometer and 20-nanometer continued to grow and they represented 23% of revenue in the second quarter, same as the first quarter. 28-nanometer contribution fell slightly to 28% versus 30% in the first quarter, due to a higher revenue base in the second quarter. But absolute dollar revenue from 28-nanometer continued to increase Q over Q.

現在技術收入如何？ 16 納米和 20 納米的總收入繼續增長，佔第二季度收入的 23%，與第一季度相同。由於第二季度的收入基數較高，28 納米的貢獻從第一季度的 30% 略微下降至 28%。但 28 納米的絕對美元收入繼續增加 Q 超過 Q。

Moving on to the balance sheet, we ended the second quarter with cash and marketable securities of TWD668b, an increase of TWD19b. On the liability side, current liability increased TWD163b as we accrued about TWD156b for cash dividend, which will be paid out this month.

轉到資產負債表，我們在第二季度結束時的現金和有價證券為 TWD668b，增加了 TWD19b。在負債方面，流動負債增加了TWD163b，因為我們應計了約TWD156b的現金股息，這將在本月支付。

On financial ratios, accounts receivable turnover days increased 2 days to 43 days, while days of inventory remain at 54 days, same as last quarter.

財務比率方面，應收賬款周轉天數增加 2 天至 43 天，而庫存天數保持在 54 天，與上一季度相同。

Now let me make a few comments on cash flow and CapEx. During the second quarter we generated about TWD107b cash from operations and spent TWD100b -- and spent TWD74b in capital expenditure. As a result, we generated free cash flow of TWD33b this quarter and repaid TWD11b of corporate bonds. Our overall cash balance increased TWD4b to TWD622b at the end of the quarter.

現在讓我對現金流和資本支出發表一些評論。在第二季度，我們從運營中產生了大約 TWD107b 的現金並花費了 TWD100b - 並花費了 TWD74b 的資本支出。結果，我們在本季度產生了 TWD33b 的自由現金流，並償還了 TWD11b 的公司債券。在本季度末，我們的整體現金餘額增加了 TWD4b 至 TWD622b。

In US dollar terms, the capital expenditure spent in the first half of 2016 totaled $3.4b. The second-half spending will be much more than the first half.

以美元計，2016 年上半年的資本支出總額為 $3.4b。下半年的支出將遠遠超過上半年。

I have finished my financial summary. Now let's turn to the third-quarter outlook. We expect our business in the third quarter will benefit from our customers' new product launch and continued inventory restocking.

我已經完成了我的財務摘要。現在讓我們轉向第三季度的展望。我們預計我們在第三季度的業務將受益於我們客戶的新產品推出和持續的庫存補貨。

Based on our current business outlook and exchange rate assumptions of $1 to TWD32.30, we expect third-quarter revenue to be between TWD254b and TWD257b, which represents 14.5% to 15.9% sequential growth; gross profit margin to be between 50% and 52%; and operating margin to be between 39.5% and 41.5%.

根據我們目前的業務前景和 1 美元至 32.30 新台幣的匯率假設，我們預計第三季度收入將在 254 新台幣至 257 新台幣之間，環比增長 14.5% 至 15.9%；毛利率介於 50% 至 52% 之間；營業利潤率在 39.5% 至 41.5% 之間。

This concludes my remarks.

我的發言到此結束。

Now we will begin the management comments and we will start with TSMC's CFO, Miss Lora Ho.

現在我們將開始管理層評論，我們將從台積電的首席財務官Lora Ho小姐開始。

I would like to make a few comments on near-term outlook, CapEx, profitability and the dividend. Let me start with near-term outlook.

我想對近期前景、資本支出、盈利能力和股息發表一些評論。讓我從近期展望開始。

Our second-quarter result was helped by an increase in demand from China 4G Plus smartphone ramping and continued 3G to 4G upgrade from emerging markets. Given a stronger-than-seasonal business for our fabless customers in the second quarter, we estimate our fabless customers' DOI exiting second quarter is about seasonal level.

我們的第二季度業績得益於中國 4G Plus 智能手機需求的增加以及新興市場持續的 3G 到 4G 升級。鑑於第二季度我們的無晶圓廠客戶的業務強於季節性，我們估計我們的無晶圓廠客戶第二季度退出的 DOI 約為季節性水平。

Looking ahead to third quarter 2016, we forecast continuing inventory build by the smartphone-centric OEMs and fabless companies, stimulated by subsidies provided to the telecommunication companies by the Chinese government. We estimate fabless DOI will remain flat with the second quarter, but will be above seasonal level by a few days exiting third quarter.

展望 2016 年第三季度，我們預計在中國政府向電信公司提供補貼的刺激下，以智能手機為中心的 OEM 和無晶圓廠公司將繼續增加庫存。我們估計無晶圓廠 DOI 將與第二季度持平，但在第三季度結束後的幾天內將高於季節性水平。

Fourth quarter is normally an inventory adjustment quarter, but the degree of adjustment will depend on market dynamics and sentiment. For now, we expect the supply chain inventory to go back to the seasonal level exiting fourth quarter. For the whole year of 2016, TSMC maintains our target of between 5% and 10% growth in both revenue and operating profit, both in US dollar and in NT dollar terms.

第四季度通常是庫存調整季度，但調整程度將取決於市場動態和情緒。目前，我們預計供應鏈庫存將回到第四季度後的季節性水平。對於 2016 年全年，台積電維持我們的目標，即以美元和新台幣計算的收入和營業利潤均增長 5% 至 10%。

Now let me make a few comments on CapEx. Our 2016 CapEx forecast has risen from $9b to $10b to $9.5b to $10.5b because expectation for 2017 mobile market mobile products revenue has risen as well.

現在讓我對資本支出發表一些評論。我們的 2016 年資本支出預測已從 $9b 上升到 $10b 到 $9.5b 到 $10.5b，因為對 2017 年移動市場移動產品收入的預期也有所上升。

TSMC's CapEx-to-sales ratio, known as capital intensity, has come down significantly in the last two years. Compared with the high 40s level seen in 2011 to 2013, our capital intensity has dropped to about 31% last year. Going forward, we estimate our capital intensity will remain at mid-30s level for the next few years.

台積電的資本支出與銷售額之比，即資本密集度，在過去兩年顯著下降。與 2011 年至 2013 年 40 年代的高水平相比，我們的資本密集度已降至去年的 31% 左右。展望未來，我們估計未來幾年我們的資本密集度將保持在 30 年代中期的水平。

One major factor contributing to this moderate level of capital intensity is our effort made to minimize the conversion loss between two adjacent technology nodes. For example, between 20-nanometer and 16-nanometer, we closely manage one peak capacity so we can minimize conversion loss. Now we also closely manage 10-nanometer and 7-nanometer as one peak capacity to minimize the conversion loss.

促成這種中等水平的資本密集度的一個主要因素是我們努力將兩個相鄰技術節點之間的轉換損失降至最低。例如，在 20 納米和 16 納米之間，我們密切管理一個峰值容量，因此我們可以最大限度地減少轉換損耗。現在我們也將 10 納米和 7 納米作為一個峰值容量進行密切管理，以最大限度地減少轉換損耗。

In terms of profitability, in the past few years, despite the higher CapEx which led to a substantial increase in depreciation expenses, we have been able to maintain and even improve our structural profitability. We expect to be able to maintain our gross margin at close to 50% level and operating margin at close to 39% level.

在盈利能力方面，過去幾年，儘管資本支出較高導致折舊費用大幅增加，但我們能夠保持甚至提高我們的結構盈利能力。我們預計能夠將我們的毛利率維持在接近 50% 的水平，並將營業利潤率維持在接近 39% 的水平。

My last comment is about dividend. We anticipate a steadily improving free cash flow in the next few years. Therefore we expect our dividend to steadily increase in the next few years as well.

我的最後一條評論是關於股息。我們預計未來幾年自由現金流將穩步改善。因此，我們預計未來幾年我們的股息也將穩步增加。

Thank you. Let me turn the microphone to Mark for his comments.

謝謝你。讓我把麥克風轉給馬克聽聽他的評論。

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us. I'd like to deliver you the message firstly on leading-edge technology status that includes 10-nanometer, 7-nanometer and 5-nanometer.

大家下午好。感謝您加入我們。我想首先向您傳達的信息包括10納米、7納米和5納米的前沿技術現狀。

First on 10-nanometer. Our 10-nanometer has been transferred from R&D to production. Our first 10-nanometer customer product has been produced with satisfactory functional yield. So far, three customer products have been taped out to us. More customer product tape-outs are expected later this year. Those product tape-outs will start a revenue stream starting first quarter 2017, which will ramp steeply throughout 2017.

首先是 10 納米。我們的 10 納米已從研發轉移到生產。我們生產的第一個 10 納米客戶產品具有令人滿意的功能良率。到目前為止，已經向我們錄製了三種客戶產品。預計今年晚些時候會有更多的客戶產品流片。這些產品流片將從 2017 年第一季度開始產生收入流，並將在整個 2017 年急劇增加。

On 7-nanometer. Our 7-nanometer technology development is well on track. Its 256-megabit SRAM yield improvement is ahead of our schedule. In addition, we believe our 7-nanometer PPA, that is power, performance and area density, with its schedule, is ahead of our competitors. This technology has been aggressively adopted, not only by mobile customers, but also by high-performance computing customers. They all have aggressive product tape-out plan in first half 2017, with volume production planned in early 2018.

7納米。我們的 7 納米技術開發進展順利。其 256 兆位 SRAM 良率的提升超出了我們的計劃。此外，我們相信我們的 7 納米 PPA（即功率、性能和麵積密度）及其時間表領先於我們的競爭對手。這項技術已被積極採用，不僅被移動客戶，而且被高性能計算客戶所採用。他們都在 2017 年上半年制定了積極的產品流片計劃，併計劃在 2018 年初進行量產。

On 5-nanometer. We have been executing our 5-nanometer development since the beginning of this year. TSMC's 5-nanometer will achieve 1.9 times of logic density over our 7-nanometer. We plan to extensively use EUV lithography in 5-nanometer through improved density, simplify process complexity and reduce cost. The 5-nanometer risk production qualification in first half 2019 remains unchanged.

5納米。自今年年初以來，我們一直在執行 5 納米開發。台積電的 5 納米將比我們的 7 納米實現 1.9 倍的邏輯密度。我們計劃通過提高密度、簡化工藝複雜性和降低成本來廣泛使用 5 納米的 EUV 光刻技術。 2019年上半年5納米風險生產資質不變。

Secondly, on EUV status. We plan to adopt EUV extensively in our 5-nanometer technology. Today EUV technology uses 7-nanometer as a development vehicle. We have good integration progress in EUV scanner, EUV mask and EUV photoresist. Same yield level has been repeatedly demonstrated using two EUV layers in 7-nanometer.

其次，關於 EUV 的地位。我們計劃在我們的 5 納米技術中廣泛採用 EUV。如今，EUV 技術使用 7 納米作為開發工具。我們在 EUV 掃描儀、EUV 掩模和 EUV 光刻膠方面取得了良好的集成進展。使用 7 納米的兩個 EUV 層反复證明了相同的良率水平。

Currently we are running four state-of-the-art EUV scanners for EUV infrastructure development and for N7 and N5 technology development. We will move in another two EUV high-volume production tools, that is NXE3400, in first quarter 2017, next year.

目前，我們正在運行四台最先進的 EUV 掃描儀，用於 EUV 基礎設施開發以及 N7 和 N5 技術開發。我們將在明年 2017 年第一季度引進另外兩款 EUV 大批量生產工具，即 NXE3400。

Recently we successfully implemented 125-watt EUV source in our EUV3350 to improve productivity. In our in-house mask shop we have developing unique EUV mask technologies on mask blank, material, inspection and repair, to seamlessly integrate our EUV lithography total solution.

最近，我們在 EUV3350 中成功實施了 125 瓦 EUV 光源，以提高生產力。在我們的內部掩模車間，我們在掩模坯料、材料、檢查和修復方面開發了獨特的 EUV 掩模技術，以無縫集成我們的 EUV 光刻整體解決方案。

With all the encouraging development and progresses made at EUV, we estimate that EUV will be cost-effective tool for high-volume manufacturing by 2020, in time for our 5-nanometer ramp. Should EUV become cost-effective earlier, say around 2019, we believe we can still benefit from the earlier available of EUV for our 7-nanometer high-volume manufacturing.

隨著 EUV 取得的所有令人鼓舞的發展和進步，我們估計，到 2020 年，EUV 將成為大批量製造的具有成本效益的工具，趕上我們的 5 納米斜坡。如果 EUV 更早變得具有成本效益，比如在 2019 年左右，我們相信我們仍然可以從更早的 EUV 中受益，用於我們的 7 納米大批量製造。

Thirdly, on growth drivers. First, smartphone as a growth driver. We expect smartphone-related demand will support half of our growth in the next five years. It will come from unit growth as well as increasing silicon content. Despite a weak semiconductor industry growth this year, we estimate the smartphone unit growth rate will be about 5% -- about 6%. And the silicon content growth rate per smartphone will increase by a double digit for high and mid end and about flattish for the low end.

第三，關於增長動力。首先，智能手機作為增長動力。我們預計未來五年與智能手機相關的需求將支持我們一半的增長。它將來自單位增長以及增加的矽含量。儘管今年半導體行業增長疲軟，但我們估計智能手機單位增長率約為 5% - 約 6%。每部智能手機的矽含量增長率將在高端和中端以兩位數增長，而在低端則基本持平。

We estimate total semiconductor revenue, excluding memory, in smartphone will increase about 7% this year. Longer term, we believe the smartphone unit will continue to grow at a mid single-digit rate. And the silicon content will continue to increase.

我們估計，智能手機中的半導體總收入（不包括內存）今年將增長約 7%。從長遠來看，我們認為智能手機部門將繼續以中個位數的速度增長。並且矽含量會不斷增加。

This silicon content increase is driven by the increasing adoption of innovative smartphone features, such as dual camera, security sensing, augment reality, virtual reality and migration of 4G, 4G Plus and to 5G. Most of the high-end smartphone features are also proliferating into lower-end smartphones because those innovative features usually require more advanced technologies. With our customers, we will gradually increase our market share in the smartphone market.

這種矽含量的增加是由越來越多地採用創新的智能手機功能推動的，例如雙攝像頭、安全傳感、增強現實、虛擬現實以及 4G、4G Plus 和向 5G 的遷移。大多數高端智能手機功能也在向低端智能手機擴散，因為這些創新功能通常需要更先進的技術。與我們的客戶一起，我們將逐步增加我們在智能手機市場的市場份額。

As to high-performance computing as a growth driver, as the digital trend develops in all industries worldwide today, silicon IC will needed to take up vast amount of computation load in the future. We estimate computing opportunities will support about one quarter of our growth in the next five years.

以高性能計算作為增長動力，隨著當今全球各行各業數字化趨勢的發展，未來矽IC將需要承擔大量的計算負載。我們估計計算機會將支持我們在未來五年內約四分之一的增長。

In TSMC, we work with IC innovators around the world. We see momentum building up in the computing space for our customers. In May this year, seven companies announced that they are forming an interconnect consortium called CCIX to enable heterogeneous computing in datacenters.

在台積電，我們與世界各地的 IC 創新者合作。我們看到我們的客戶在計算領域的勢頭正在增強。今年 5 月，七家公司宣布他們正在組建一個名為 CCIX 的互連聯盟，以在數據中心實現異構計算。

In China, cloud leaders and technology companies formed Green Computing Consortium, aiming to develop energy-efficient datacenters. We also see increasing activities around machine learning, where system companies differentiate down to the silicon level. TSMC, as a foundry player, focuses on enabling our customers' innovation through providing leading-edge technology.

在中國，雲計算領導者和技術公司成立了綠色計算聯盟，旨在開發節能數據中心。我們還看到圍繞機器學習的活動越來越多，系統公司將差異化到芯片級別。台積電作為代工企業，專注於通過提供領先技術來支持客戶的創新。

Other innovations in computing area are augment reality, virtual reality, gaming and ADAS, or advanced driver assistance systems. TSMC has been developing suitable process technologies and design enablement for all those innovations.

計算領域的其他創新包括增強現實、虛擬現實、遊戲和 ADAS，或高級駕駛輔助系統。台積電一直在為所有這些創新開發合適的工藝技術和設計支持。

Above is my message. Thank you. Now I turn the microphone to C.C.

以上是我的留言。謝謝你。現在我把麥克風轉到 C.C.

Thank you, Mark. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Let me start with our 16-nanometer status. We continue to ramp 16-nanometer with defect density and a cycle time better than our plan. Major applications this year include mobile processor, cellular baseband, graphic and video game.

謝謝你，馬克。下午好，女士們，先生們。讓我從我們的 16 納米狀態開始。我們繼續以比我們的計劃更好的缺陷密度和周期時間來提升 16 納米。今年的主要應用包括移動處理器、蜂窩基帶、圖形和視頻遊戲。

We are happy to report that we have been recognized by a major customer for our contribution to the success of a deep learning chip using TSMC's 16 FinFET Plus.

我們很高興地報告，我們為使用台積電 16 FinFET Plus 的深度學習芯片的成功做出的貢獻得到了主要客戶的認可。

We expect our 16-nanometer business will continue to increase in the second half of this year, with most of the products adopting our 16FFC, which is a low-power and low-cost version of the 16-nanometer process. We expect to generate more than 20% wafer revenue from 16-nanometer in this year.

我們預計今年下半年我們的 16 納米業務將繼續增長，大部分產品採用我們的 16FFC，這是 16 納米工藝的低功耗和低成本版本。我們預計今年 16 納米的晶圓收入將超過 20%。

Now 28-nanometer. Our 28-nanometer has entered its sixth year of volume production. TSMC's 28HPC and HPC Plus have been widely adopted by most of the mobile application processor suppliers for the faster-growing mid- to low-end smartphones and other applications, such as Wi-Fi, digital TV set-top box, flash controller, etc. With our differentiated technology, stable yield, short cycle time and large-capacity support, we expect stronger demand for our 28-nanometer will last through this year.

現在是 28 納米。我們的 28 納米已進入量產第六年。 TSMC 的 28HPC 和 HPC Plus 已被大多數移動應用處理器供應商廣泛採用，用於快速增長的中低端智能手機和其他應用，如 Wi-Fi、數字電視機頂盒、閃存控制器等. 憑藉我們差異化的技術、穩定的良率、短週期和大容量的支持，我們預計對我們 28 納米的強勁需求將持續到今年。

Now let me touch a little bit on our competiveness for those technologies which have been in volume production, namely 16-nanometer, 28-nanometer and so on. TSMC continues to improve our technologies and develop new variants, even after these technologies have entered mass-production stage.

現在讓我談談我們對那些已經量產的技術的競爭力，即16納米、28納米等。台積電繼續改進我們的技術並開發新的變體，即使這些技術已經進入量產階段。

For example, to meet the changing market requirements, we introduced a low-cost, low-power version 16FFC this year after 16-nanometer started volume production last year. We also lowered the operating voltage of our 16-nanometer process to 0.5 volt to meet the requirement for IoT applications.

例如，為了滿足不斷變化的市場需求，我們在去年開始量產 16 納米之後，今年推出了低成本、低功耗的 16FFC 版本。我們還將 16 納米工藝的工作電壓降低到 0.5 伏，以滿足物聯網應用的要求。

Similarly, at 28-nanometer node, we introduced 28HPC and 28HPC Plus for the low-power solutions while keeping the speed at almost the same level. For 40-nanometer, TSMC also introduced 40 low power for low-power applications. For 55-nanometer and older node, we apply similar approaches as well.

同樣，在 28 納米節點，我們引入了 28HPC 和 28HPC Plus 用於低功耗解決方案，同時將速度保持在幾乎相同的水平。對於 40 納米，台積電還推出了 40 低功耗低功耗應用。對於 55 納米和更早的節點，我們也採用類似的方法。

Since we are able to start volume production ahead of our competition, TSMC has enjoyed a substantial advantage in learning curve. We are able to accumulate enough experience faster than our foundry peers. And therefore we can better improve our cost and device performance for each technology node. Because of the learning curve advantage, we believe we are highly competitive in both performance and cost.

由於我們能夠領先於競爭對手開始量產，台積電在學習曲線上享有顯著優勢。我們能夠比我們的鑄造同行更快地積累足夠的經驗。因此，我們可以更好地提高每個技術節點的成本和設備性能。由於學習曲線的優勢，我們相信我們在性能和成本方面都具有很強的競爭力。

Now let me talk about our -- another growth driver, which is IoT, in addition to mobile and high-speed computation market, which Mark just explained. Driven by innovative business model, we expect the diversified and fragmented IoT applications will become one of the most important growth drivers for future semiconductor business.

現在讓我談談我們的另一個增長動力，即物聯網，除了移動和高速計算市場，馬克剛剛解釋過。在創新商業模式的推動下，我們預計多元化和碎片化的物聯網應用將成為未來半導體業務最重要的增長動力之一。

IoT applications require not only the collection of huge amount of data, but also the ability to analyze the data and utilize the data to improve our daily lives, such as security and health. In the near term we can see smart band and smart watch for healthcare and smart meter for efficient energy and cost saving. Longer term, we expect ADAS and autonomous driving be widely adopted; smart home, smart city. Robot, drones are also progressing along.

物聯網應用不僅需要收集大量數據，還需要能夠分析數據並利用數據來改善我們的日常生活，例如安全和健康。在短期內，我們可以看到用於醫療保健的智能手環和智能手錶以及用於高效節能和節省成本的智能電錶。從長遠來看，我們預計 ADAS 和自動駕駛將被廣泛採用；智能家居，智慧城市。機器人、無人機也在不斷進步。

We believe TSMC's specialty technology development in CMOS image sensor, MEMS, RF, power management IC and emerging memory are well positioned to capture the IoT opportunities.

我們相信台積電在 CMOS 圖像傳感器、MEMS、RF、電源管理 IC 和新興存儲器方面的專業技術開發能夠很好地抓住物聯網機遇。

Now let me talk about our advanced back-end technology, first on InFO. We are in volume production now. Our focus today is continuing yield improvement and cost reduction. We expect InFO will contribute more than $100m revenue in 4Q this year, with a moderate gross margin. At the same time we are also developing the next generation InFO technology for products planned for next year and beyond.

現在讓我談談我們先進的後端技術，首先是 InFO。我們現在正在批量生產。我們今天的重點是繼續提高產量和降低成本。我們預計 InFO 將在今年第四季度貢獻超過 1 億美元的收入，毛利率適中。同時，我們還在為計劃在明年及以後推出的產品開發下一代 InFO 技術。

Now, on CoWoS, we have seen strong momentum from high-memory bandwidth and high performance-driven applications, such as the networking, deep learning and artificial intelligence. While our CoWoS is still in small volume production for those very high-speed applications, we see the potential of demand increase as well. We expect to support our customer to grow their business in the high-speed computing space with our CoWoS as part of our advanced technology offer.

現在，在 CoWoS 上，我們看到了來自高內存帶寬和高性能驅動應用的強勁勢頭，例如網絡、深度學習和人工智能。雖然我們的 CoWoS 仍在為那些非常高速的應用進行小批量生產，但我們也看到了需求增長的潛力。作為我們先進技術產品的一部分，我們希望通過 CoWoS 支持我們的客戶在高速計算領域發展業務。

Thank you for your attention.

感謝您的關注。

All right. This concludes our prepared statements. Before we begin the Q&A session, I would like to remind everybody to limit your questions to two at a time to allow all participants an opportunity to ask questions. Questions will be taken both from the floor and from the call.

好的。我們準備好的陳述到此結束。在我們開始問答環節之前，我想提醒大家一次將您的問題限制為兩個，以便所有參與者都有機會提問。將在現場和電話中提出問題。

Should you wish to raise your questions in Chinese, I will translate it to English before our management answers your question. For those of you on the call, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star then one on your telephone keypad now. Questions will be taken in the order in which they were received. If at any time you would like to remove yourself from the queue, please press the pound or the hash key. So star and one if you want to ask questions and hash key if you want to remove yourself.

如果您想用中文提出問題，我會在管理層回答您的問題之前將其翻譯成英文。對於那些正在通話的人，如果您想提出問題，請立即按電話鍵盤上的星號。問題將按照收到的順序進行。如果您想在任何時候將自己從隊列中刪除，請按井號或井號鍵。因此，如果您想提出問題，請加註星號，如果您想刪除自己，請使用哈希鍵。

All right. Now let's begin the Q&A session. I think we will have the pessimistic analyst from JPMorgan to ask the first question, Gokul?

好的。現在讓我們開始問答環節。我認為我們將讓摩根大通的悲觀分析師提出第一個問題，Gokul？

Thank you very much. First of all on smartphones, and growth coming from smartphones being half of the growth and computer also contributing to a quarter of the growth, could you talk about what is the growth picture for the whole Company? Are we going to maintain the 5% to 10% growth that we are predicting for this year into the next five years? Or how should we think about the growth pattern?

非常感謝。首先是智能手機，來自智能手機的增長佔增長的一半，電腦也貢獻了四分之一的增長，您能談談整個公司的增長情況嗎？我們是否會保持我們預測的今年到未來五年的 5% 到 10% 的增長？或者我們應該如何看待增長模式？

And I have a follow up on the computer side as well.

我在計算機方面也有跟進。

Okay. Thank you. You talk about the growth model, right? Okay. We do have a growth forecast within the Company, but let me share you with the big picture. In our model, we -- semiconductor has been staying on 0% growth for the past two years, but next five years we estimate about between -- still about between 2% or 2% plus to 3%.

好的。謝謝你。你說的是增長模式，對吧？好的。我們確實有公司內部的增長預測，但讓我與您分享一下大局。在我們的模型中，我們——半導體在過去兩年中一直保持 0% 的增長，但我們估計接下來的五年——仍然在 2% 或 2% 到 3% 之間。

And the fabless company, because of the business model advantages and the leading-edge technology advantages, they will grow about 5% per year in the next five years. And semiconductor -- and TSMC with this, not only the fabless company but also the system company and the -- and IDM outsourcing -- we estimate will grow -- our current estimate will be about between 5% to 10% depending on the macroeconomics and the semiconductor events.

而無晶圓廠，由於商業模式優勢和領先的技術優勢，未來五年每年將增長5%左右。半導體——以及台積電，不僅是無晶圓廠公司，還有系統公司和——以及 IDM 外包——我們估計會增長——我們目前的估計將在 5% 到 10% 之間，具體取決於宏觀經濟和半導體事件。

This model is assuming that there is no killer application happen in the next five years. Okay? And as to the background of this growth model, we have -- we are focusing on four areas, as I presented to you earlier. First is the smartphone, mobile devices, mostly smartphones. And that will drive about the growth -- 50% of that growth in the next five years.

該模型假設未來五年內不會出現殺手級應用。好的？至於這種增長模式的背景，我們有 - 正如我之前向您介紹的那樣，我們專注於四個領域。首先是智能手機，移動設備，主要是智能手機。這將推動增長——未來五年增長的 50%。

And the high-performance computing, that will include the learning, artificial intelligence, the machine learning, AI, gaming, that will grow -- that will drive about 20% -- about a quarter of our driving growth in the next five years. And autonomous car and IoT and the rest will take up another quarter of the drive growth for the next five years. So this is the -- largely our growth model, yes.

高性能計算，包括學習、人工智能、機器學習、人工智能、遊戲，將會增長——這將推動約 20%——在未來五年內占我們推動增長的四分之一左右。自動駕駛汽車和物聯網等將佔未來五年驅動增長的另外四分之一。所以這就是——主要是我們的增長模式，是的。

Just on the smartphone bit, are we -- I think we have seen smartphone estimates getting -- coming down for the last six quarters. Are we expecting that smartphone units stay at this 5% to 6% growth rate? Or could -- in think in most tech markets, once the saturation hits we get down to probably GDP growth rate, which is like 2% or something like that. Are we anticipating that? And is the future growth in smartphones primarily coming from content growth, which is still pretty decent?

就智能手機而言，我們 - 我認為我們已經看到智能手機的估計值 - 在過去六個季度中有所下降。我們是否期望智能手機銷量保持在 5% 到 6% 的增長率？或者可以 - 在大多數科技市場中思考，一旦達到飽和，我們可能會降低到 GDP 增長率，比如 2% 或類似的水平。我們期待嗎？智能手機的未來增長是否主要來自內容增長，這仍然相當不錯？

The -- indeed, the smartphone has been slowing down in the past six quarters, particularly for the high end. And actually -- but at the same time, the mid end, silicon content, is increasing very fast. And the unit number at the low end also increasing very fast. As far as the high end, we don't believe the trend for the last year drop will continue. Okay? Innovation will surface to drive the momentum of the unit growth.

事實上，智能手機在過去六個季度一直在放緩，尤其是在高端市場。實際上 - 但與此同時，中端矽含量正在快速增長。而低端的單元數量也增長得非常快。至於高端，我們認為去年的下跌趨勢不會持續。好的？創新將浮出水面，推動單位增長的勢頭。

So in total, we still estimate the growth rate will be about 5% in unit growth. Silicon content I mentioned is also about equally important. So that's the general model we have.

所以總的來說，我們仍然估計單位增長率將在5%左右。我提到的矽含量也同樣重要。這就是我們的通用模型。

Just a question on the compute side. Could you talk a little bit about the take off of the revenues, given that you're expecting tape-outs in first half next year? Typically the end market that you serve in compute, especially the datacenter compute, takes a bit longer for qualification, if you look at server market, for example. Are we anticipating revenues coming in with 7-nanometer in 2018 itself for compute, or could you talk about your revenue model for the compute part? Thanks.

只是計算方面的一個問題。鑑於您預計明年上半年將進行流片，您能否談談收入的騰飛？例如，如果您查看服務器市場，通常您在計算中服務的終端市場，尤其是數據中心計算，需要更長的時間來獲得資格。我們是否預計 2018 年 7 納米技術本身的收入將用於計算，或者您能否談談您在計算部分的收入模式？謝謝。

The question is regarding the high-performance computing, how would that -- appears to be? At this point we think, first of all, many of the low-end servers has -- some of our smaller customer has penetrated already. But for the ballpark, the main portion of the server, I think it will wait for the 7-nanometer to get some share by our customers. But in the next -- at least in the next -- so 7-nanometer will happen in 2018 and afterwards, so it will start from 2019 and beyond. So it will -- for the datacenter I think it will be more a hockey stick beyond -- probably really bigger portion beyond 2020.

問題是關於高性能計算，那會是怎樣的？在這一點上我們認為，首先，許多低端服務器已經——我們的一些小客戶已經滲透。但是對於服務器的主要部分來說，我認為它會等待 7 納米來獲得我們的客戶的一些份額。但是在接下來——至少在下一個——所以 7 納米將在 2018 年及之後發生，所以它將從 2019 年及以後開始。所以它會——對於數據中心來說，我認為它更像是一個曲棍球棒——可能在 2020 年之後真正佔據更大的份額。

So in the next five years, mostly are the computing of the cloud edge devices, of course including the networking, storage and other cloud edge devices I just mentioned. Okay. Thank you.

所以未來五年，主要是雲邊緣設備的計算，當然也包括我剛才提到的網絡、存儲等雲邊緣設備。好的。謝謝你。

Next we will have Credit Suisse, Randy Abrams, to raise the question.

接下來我們將請瑞士信貸蘭迪艾布拉姆斯提出這個問題。

Yes. Thank you. I wanted to ask the first one actually, another one on the growth drivers, just to get a feel for the base. The computing -- should we think of computing now just that computer end market that's 8% of revenue? Is that when you're thinking about computing, driving a quarter of the growth it's only 8% of revenue now? Like are we thinking the same definition?

是的。謝謝你。實際上，我想問第一個問題，另一個關於增長驅動因素的問題，只是為了了解基礎。計算——我們現在是否應該只考慮佔收入 8% 的計算機終端市場？是不是當你考慮計算時，推動四分之一的增長現在只佔收入的 8%？就像我們在考慮相同的定義？

And within computing, how much are you banking on ARM and IBM-based servers, versus some of the other things, like the deep learning, or if it's like the AR/VR graphics that you're banking on for most of that growth?

在計算領域，您對基於 ARM 和 IBM 的服務器的依賴程度有多大，而不是其他一些東西，例如深度學習，或者您對大部分增長的依賴是 AR/VR 圖形？

Can you repeat the question?

你能重複一下這個問題嗎？

Yes. So the question, the starting point -- is computing -- when you're referring to computing driving a quarter of the growth, is it 8% of revenue now we should think of your computing end market category? And for the growth, are you factoring most of that growth from the ARM IBM-based servers, or is most of it more from the VR/AR, AI type stuff?

是的。所以問題，起點 - 是計算 - 當你提到計算推動四分之一的增長時，現在我們應該考慮你的計算終端市場類別，是收入的 8% 嗎？對於增長，您是從基於 ARM IBM 的服務器中考慮到大部分增長，還是大部分來自 VR/AR、AI 類型的東西？

Okay. When I talk about computing, it doesn't include a lot of PC or tablets or current computing. I am more category the high-performance computing part. Of course, datacenter, networking storage, but mostly it's in the next three years I think it will be mostly the machine learning, AI, augmented reality, gaming, those are -- those computing devices. Datacenter will not -- I don't think it will come out the big volume until 2018.

好的。當我談到計算時，它不包括很多個人電腦或平板電腦或當前的計算。我更多的是高性能計算部分。當然，數據中心、網絡存儲，但主要是在未來三年內，我認為主要是機器學習、人工智能、增強現實、遊戲，那些是 - 那些計算設備。數據中心不會——我認為它要到 2018 年才會大批量生產。

Okay. The second question, I had a two-part question on the gross margin. For third quarter, if you could go into the factors. Sales are up 15% but the gross margin's flattish. If you could talk about the factors, say from InFO or ramp of 16-nanometer, what's driving the factors? You're not single leverage from Q2 to Q3 in gross margin with the higher sales?

好的。第二個問題，我有一個關於毛利率的兩部分問題。對於第三季度，如果您可以考慮因素。銷售額增長了 15%，但毛利率持平。如果你能談談這些因素，比如 InFO 或 16 納米的斜坡，是什麼推動了這些因素？ Q2 到 Q3 的毛利率不是單槓槓槓的嗎？

And then the second part is as you ramp 10-nanometer next year -- this year you had the benefit of 16 being a more mature process, borrowing from 20, so would there be any margin impact on the first year of the 10-nanometer ramp in 2017?

然後第二部分是當你明年推出 10 納米時——今年你受益於 16 是一個更成熟的過程，從 20 中藉用，所以對 10 納米的第一年會有任何利潤影響2017 年的斜坡？

So, Randy, you referred to the margin for the third quarter. As we are continual ramping 16-nanometer, so 16-nanometer will account for a bigger part of our revenue in third quarter versus the second quarter. As this year is only the second year of the 16 ramp, so it still has some dilution to corporate average gross margin. So this is a negative for third quarter.

所以，蘭迪，你提到了第三季度的利潤率。由於我們正在不斷增加 16 納米，因此與第二季度相比，16 納米將占我們第三季度收入的更大部分。由於今年只是 16 年的第二年，因此對企業平均毛利率仍有一定的稀釋作用。因此，這對第三季度不利。

So most of it's just 16 and InFO?

所以大部分只有 16 和 InFO？

InFO is very small quantity, and the quantity comes on the line in fourth quarter.

InFO 數量非常少，數量在第四季度上線。

Okay.

好的。

C.C. was mentioning the fourth quarter will be bigger than $100m, with modest margin. So it will have some dilution as well, but it's very small.

C.C.提到第四季度將超過 1 億美元，利潤率適中。所以它也會有一些稀釋，但它非常小。

Okay. The second part was if any start-up impact on 10-nanometer next year, since this year 16 was second year and also helped by the 20 learning? So if 10 might have an impact?

好的。第二部分是對明年10納米的啟動有沒有影響，因為今年16是第二年，也有20個學習的幫助？那麼如果 10 可能會產生影響呢？

Yes. The answer is yes. And we will start to mass produce 10-nanometer from the first quarter next year, so the whole year, the 10-nanometer margin will be below corporate average, so it will be a dilution factor for the next year, whole year.

是的。答案是肯定的。而且我們將從明年第一季度開始量產 10 納米，所以全年，10 納米的利潤率將低於企業平均水平，因此它將成為明年全年的稀釋因素。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝你。

Next question will be coming from Citigroup's Roland Shu.

下一個問題將來自花旗集團的 Roland Shu。

Hi. Good afternoon, Mark, C.C. and Lora. The first question is on the high-performance computing. The onset for the ARM-based CPU for server won't be -- have a significant market share until 2020. At that time it's about 25% of the share. So that means on your -- for this ARM-based CPU in this high-performance computing probably won't be a very limited from now on to maybe 2018. And so that means on your -- for application processor point of view I think that you -- they actually will be using our 16-nanometer and even 10-nanometer, because our 7-nanometer I think will be in mass production from 2018.

你好。下午好，馬克，C.C.和勞拉。第一個問題是關於高性能計算的。用於服務器的基於 ARM 的 CPU 的出現要到 2020 年才會擁有顯著的市場份額。當時它大約是 25% 的份額。所以這意味著從現在到 2018 年，這種高性能計算中的基於 ARM 的 CPU 可能不會受到很大限制。所以這意味著從應用處理器的角度來看，我認為你——他們實際上將使用我們的 16 納米甚至 10 納米，因為我認為我們的 7 納米將從 2018 年開始量產。

So my question is there any performance gap on the 16-nanometer or 10-nanometer in terms of this ARM-based CPU performance? So that's why -- for people cannot use -- adopt ARM-based CPU on the server or even on this high-performance computing quickly. Thank you.

所以我的問題是，就這種基於 ARM 的 CPU 性能而言，16 納米或 10 納米是否存在性能差距？所以這就是為什麼——因為人們不能使用——在服務器上或者甚至在這種高性能計算上快速採用基於 ARM 的 CPU。謝謝你。

On the ARM-based server, or anyway, the CPU chip for server indeed. To the main bulk of the CPU it will take, we will have to work with our customer on 7-nanometer and it is ongoing actively. Before that, I think there are customers working on 16 and even 28 to enter low-end server already also.

在基於 ARM 的服務器上，或者無論如何，服務器的 CPU 芯片。對於它將佔用的大部分 CPU，我們將不得不與我們的客戶在 7 納米上進行合作，並且正在積極進行中。在此之前，我認為已經有客戶在 16 甚至 28 進入低端服務器。

But for the other high-performance computing application, really the entry technology is spread quite wide. Just take the ADAS, for example. 28-nanometer is prevailing entry for the ADAS technology in many of the high-end cars already. For machine learning, 16-nanometer, what you see already, high volume is on 16-nanometer in entry to developed market already. The gaming is already also entry in the 16-nanometer soon. It has just started in the 16-nanometer already.

但是對於其他高性能計算應用來說，真正的入門技術傳播得相當廣泛。以 ADAS 為例。 28 納米已經成為許多高端汽車中 ADAS 技術的主流入口。對於機器學習，16 納米，如您所見，16 納米已經大量進入發達市場。遊戲也很快進入了 16 納米。它剛剛開始使用 16 納米。

So for other high-performance computing, the application will happen much earlier, already on 28 and 16, and 10 also. So that is different than the datacenter.

因此，對於其他高性能計算，應用程序將發生得更早，已經在 28 和 16 以及 10 上。所以這與數據中心不同。

Okay. So for this high-performance computing will account for one-quarter of the -- on this five years' growth. So how big it will be from this high-performance CPU for server or for this data center?

好的。因此對於這種高性能計算將占到四分之一——就這五年的增長而言。那麼這個高性能 CPU 用於服務器或這個數據中心會有多大呢？

Well that depends on how much growth we have, right? Right now I think it's currently -- because the forecast has a big range, between 5% to 10%, so it is very difficult to pin down a specific number. But it's about one-quarter of the growth portion.

嗯，這取決於我們有多少增長，對吧？現在我認為是目前 - 因為預測範圍很大，在 5% 到 10% 之間，所以很難確定一個具體數字。但這大約是增長部分的四分之一。

On the ARM-based CPU in notebook or PC, I think the last quarter, Mark, you said you expect it will happen for maybe tablet first. So are you still seeing the same trend and how big it will contribute to our revenue for the next five years? I look at the transcript.

關於筆記本電腦或 PC 中基於 ARM 的 CPU，我想上個季度，馬克，你說你預計這可能會首先出現在平板電腦上。那麼您是否仍然看到相同的趨勢，以及它將為我們未來五年的收入貢獻多大？我看成績單。

Okay.

好的。

Yes, you (multiple speakers).

是的，你（多位發言者）。

Tablet, of course, the tablet has been -- application processor has been widely used in tablet already. It's only the tablet, the growth rate is not growing. The unit number is not growing. So you can calculate how much the revenue is already. So it's not a big number.

平板電腦，當然，平板電腦已經——應用處理器已經廣泛應用於平板電腦了。它只是平板電腦，增長率沒有增長。單位數量沒有增長。所以你可以計算出已經有多少收入。所以這不是一個很大的數字。

Okay. Thank you. My second question is I look at your second-quarter result. Your 65-nanometer revenue actually has been increased a lot. So I think there actually has been -- 65-nanometer revenue has been declined for continuous four quarters. And I think that will be a first quarter in maybe one or two years we see the growth. So can you elaborate me on why? What's the growth driver for this 65-nanometer increase in second quarter? Thank you.

好的。謝謝你。我的第二個問題是我看看你的第二季度業績。你的 65 納米收入實際上增加了很多。所以我認為實際上已經有 - 65 納米的收入已經連續四個季度下降。我認為這將是我們看到增長的一兩年後的第一季度。那你能詳細解釋一下為什麼嗎？第二季度 65 納米增長的增長動力是什麼？謝謝你。

You are asking about 65-nanometer, why it's increased?

你問的是65納米，為什麼要增加？

Yes.

是的。

It's because of some major customer, they have increased their demand in automotive area. I cannot say more than that.

正是因為一些大客戶，他們增加了對汽車領域的需求。我不能說更多。

Will this be continue into second half or into next year?

這種情況會持續到下半年還是明年？

I will believe so because the automotive business is a very steady business and it's increasing in the number of units and we enter into mass production since the beginning of this year. And that's why you see a sudden increase.

我會相信，因為汽車業務是一個非常穩定的業務，而且它的單位數量正在增加，我們從今年年初開始進入量產階段。這就是為什麼你會看到突然增加。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Okay. Next question will be coming from Morgan Stanley, Charles. Charlie Chan.

好的。下一個問題將來自摩根士丹利，查爾斯。陳查理。

Thanks for taking my question and congratulations for a great result. Very good execution. So first question is regarding your smartphone content per box. Last year you gave us some data points. I think this super helpful. So if you can quantify the absolute data of the contents in high end, mid and low end, I think that that would be very helpful. So last year a manager mentioned that the high-end content is around USD18 to USD19, mid end USD6 to USD6.4, low end is around USD3.4. So what do we see it today?

感謝您提出我的問題並祝賀您取得了很好的結果。執行力非常好。所以第一個問題是關於每個盒子的智能手機內容。去年你給了我們一些數據點。我認為這非常有幫助。所以如果你能把內容的高、中、低端的絕對數據量化出來，我覺得會很有幫助。所以去年一位經理提到高端內容在18美元到19美元左右，中端在6美元到6.4美元左右，低端在3.4美元左右。那麼我們今天看到了什麼？

I probably cannot provide specific dollar, but what I can say is the high-end content will continue to increase even to the next year. And the mid end and low end is flattish.

我可能無法提供具體的金額，但我可以說的是高端內容甚至會持續增加，甚至到明年。中端和低端是平的。

Okay. And my next question is on CapEx spending. So you mentioned that increased CapEx for this year is actually for next-year demand. So is that more for 28-nanometer, 16-nanometer or 10-nanometer spending?

好的。我的下一個問題是關於資本支出。所以你提到今年增加的資本支出實際上是為了明年的需求。那麼對於 28 納米、16 納米或 10 納米的支出來說，這更多嗎？

It's mainly for a 10-nanometer and 7-nanometer combined. We see a stronger demand than we earlier expect and we required to build more capacity next year.

它主要用於 10 納米和 7 納米的組合。我們看到需求比我們之前預期的要強，我們需要在明年建立更多的產能。

Okay. Thanks. Just a very quick clarification about the management's comments. So firstly is on the cash dividend increase. You mentioned that your increase steady in coming years. How about next year? Is it a done deal?

好的。謝謝。只需非常快速地澄清管理層的評論。首先是現金股息的增加。你提到你的增長在未來幾年穩定。明年怎麼樣？交易完成了嗎？

I will not tell you how much. It's steadily increasing. You will know by then. Okay?

我不會告訴你多少。它在穩步增加。到時候你就知道了。好的？

But will you start from next year? Will you start from next year?

但是你會從明年開始嗎？你會從明年開始嗎？

Yes. We mean -- we have the increase in dividend quite a bit and we mean it. When we say steady increase we mean every year we'll consider to increase dividend.

是的。我們的意思是——我們的股息增加了很多，我們是認真的。當我們說穩定增長時，我們的意思是每年我們都會考慮增加股息。

Okay. Thanks. And Mark mentioned that you will --

好的。謝謝。馬克提到你會——

Well, Charlie, this is already going beyond two questions, please.

好吧，查理，這已經超出了兩個問題，拜託。

Okay. Sorry about that.

好的。對於那個很抱歉。

Sorry. Okay. The next question will be coming from Goldman Sachs, Donald Lu.

對不起。好的。下一個問題將來自高盛的唐納德·盧。

(Spoken in foreign language). My first question is on EUV. I think TSMC and Mark has commented that TSMC plans to insert EUV at 7-nanometer if it is mature enough, before 2020, before 5-nanometer. My question is if another foundry, let's say, starts 7-nanometer with EUV versus TSMC insert EUV at 7-nanometer, what's the implications on performance and product? For example, will TSMC's customers have to redesign the 7-nanometer when you insert EUV in the second year of the technology ramp? So that's my first question.

（用外語講）。我的第一個問題是關於 EUV。我認為台積電和馬克已經評論說，如果足夠成熟，台積電計劃在 7 納米插入 EUV，在 2020 年之前，在 5 納米之前。我的問題是，如果另一家代工廠，比方說，用 EUV 開始 7 納米，而台積電在 7 納米插入 EUV，對性能和產品有什麼影響？例如，當您在技術斜坡的第二年插入 EUV 時，台積電的客戶是否必須重新設計 7 納米？所以這是我的第一個問題。

The second question is on demand. I think -- what is the smartphone as a percent of revenues in the third quarter? Will this be, let's say, 60% revenue or less? And also when you're saying in the next few years smartphone would be half of the growth, would you imply smartphone and non-smartphone will grow at about the same pace?

第二個問題是按需。我想——智能手機在第三季度佔收入的百分比是多少？比如說，這會是 60% 的收入還是更少？此外，當您說未來幾年智能手機將是增長的一半時，您是否暗示智能手機和非智能手機將以大致相同的速度增長？

Okay. On the first question, on EUV, our 7-nanometer will be qualified first quarter next year, so it's only three quarters from now. Definitely EUV will not be ready. And our customer product tape-out will happen in the first half next year. Definitely we cannot put our customer at risk using EUV. So this is because we are very aggressive in delivering 7-nanometer, and indeed, adoption is very wide range.

好的。第一個問題，在 EUV 上，我們的 7 納米將在明年第一季度合格，所以距離現在只有四分之三。肯定 EUV 還沒有準備好。我們的客戶產品流片將在明年上半年進行。我們絕對不能使用 EUV 將我們的客戶置於風險之中。所以這是因為我們非常積極地提供 7 納米，實際上，採用範圍非常廣泛。

Our plan to aggressively using EUV will be in 5-nanometer, where the 5-nanometer will start -- we'll finish qual (qualification) in the first half of 2019, and so we're already starting 5-nanometer development. And EUV at this time, we cannot use that as a volume for R&D, because doing R&D, a lot of activity, a lot of activity going on. So we choose that we aggressively get into 7-nanometer without EUV. And we extensively target EUV on 5-nanometer.

我們積極使用 EUV 的計劃將是 5 納米，5 納米將從那裡開始——我們將在 2019 年上半年完成 qual（資格），因此我們已經開始 5 納米的開發。而此時的 EUV，我們不能將其用作研發的量，因為進行研發，大量的活動，大量的活動正在進行。所以我們選擇在沒有 EUV 的情況下積極進入 7 納米。我們廣泛針對 5 納米的 EUV。

Yes, indeed, some of our customer -- one of our customer planned the EUV on their 7-nanometer. But that is only very -- schedule-wise it's very similar to our -- maybe a little bit ahead of our 5-nanometer, a few quarters. But our 5-nanometer is two steps down. The density is very aggressive, using EUV, and learning after 7-nanometer will be very safe on the 5-nanometer.

是的，確實，我們的一些客戶——我們的一位客戶計劃在他們的 7 納米上使用 EUV。但這只是非常 - 從時間表上講，它與我們的非常相似 - 可能比我們的 5 納米提前幾個季度。但我們的 5 納米技術下降了兩步。密度非常激進，使用 EUV，7 納米之後的學習在 5 納米上會非常安全。

Had the EUV available before 2020, we consider using our 7-nanometer technology as a base to adopt an EUV for probably the second-wave products. But as far as -- but we want to minimize the design changes so that all the customers coming to our 7-nanometer will be easily adopt what we can reap from the EUV on 7-nanometer.

如果 EUV 在 2020 年之前可用，我們考慮使用我們的 7 納米技術作為基礎，為可能的第二波產品採用 EUV。但就 - 但我們希望最大限度地減少設計更改，以便所有使用我們的 7 納米的客戶都可以輕鬆地採用我們可以從 7 納米的 EUV 中獲得的東西。

So that is our plan. I think we develop our technology at the best timing for our customers' products. So that is our current plan.

這就是我們的計劃。我認為我們在最佳時機為客戶的產品開發我們的技術。這就是我們目前的計劃。

Second question is on smartphone as a percent of revenue in third quarter after Apple ramp. And also would you imply smartphone/non-smartphone will grow at the same rate?

第二個問題是智能手機佔蘋果第三季度收入的百分比。你是否暗示智能手機/非智能手機會以同樣的速度增長？

I don't know about the third quarter, but generally we -- currently the smartphone is about 55% of the corporate revenue -- wafer revenue, okay? And yes, if -- the growth in the next five years, smartphone-related, will be half of that. Yes.

我不知道第三季度的情況，但總的來說，我們——目前智能手機約占公司收入的 55%——晶圓收入，好嗎？是的，如果——未來五年與智能手機相關的增長將是其中的一半。是的。

Related to this, what about earnings volatility, because, for 2016 or especially 10-nanometer, your largest customer will be essentially dominating this particular node? So if this customer has a seasonal or inventory issues, how can TSMC fill the leading-edge capacity with very limited number of customers?

與此相關的是，收益波動性如何，因為對於 2016 年或尤其是 10 納米，您的最大客戶將基本上主導這個特定節點？那麼，如果這個客戶有季節性或庫存問題，台積電如何在客戶數量非常有限的情況下填補領先產能呢？

I think, first of all, we are everyone's foundry. Our customer covers all areas of the application. We do have big customers. That is not new. I think your question is the volatility of the big customers (multiple speakers)?

我認為，首先，我們是每個人的代工廠。我們的客戶涵蓋應用的所有領域。我們確實有大客戶。這並不新鮮。我認為您的問題是大客戶（多位發言者）的波動性？

Yes. For 10-nanometer, let's say, your largest customer takes 80% of the capacity. And if he has two seasonal or inventory issues then you will then fillit.

是的。比如說，對於 10 納米，您最大的客戶佔據了 80% 的容量。如果他有兩個季節性或庫存問題，那麼你就會填補。

I see. Well that's why we design our 7-nanometer, equipment-wise, is 95% convertible. So ballpark is -- can consider, investment-wise, 10-nanometer and 7-nanometer can be converted easily. So that's how we minimize the volatility of the 10-nanometer.

我懂了。這就是為什麼我們設計我們的 7 納米，在設備方面，是 95% 可轉換的。因此，大致可以考慮，投資方面，10 納米和 7 納米可以輕鬆轉換。所以這就是我們如何最小化 10 納米的波動性。

Next question will come from Deutsche Bank's Michael Chou.

下一個問題將來自德意志銀行的 Michael Chou。

Hey, Lora. One question. Do you expect the ASP increase for this year? ASP increase for this year?

嘿，洛拉。一個問題。您預計今年的 ASP 會增加嗎？今年平均售價上漲？

You're asking ASP?

你問ASP？

Yes, ASP increase for this year, for whole year.

是的，今年全年的平均售價都在增加。

You're talking about a blended ASP?

你說的是混合ASP？

Blended ASP.

混合ASP。

Yes. We expect blended ASP will go up this year.

是的。我們預計今年混合平均售價將上升。

Would it be low single digit or --?

會是低個位數還是--？

I prefer not to quantify that.

我不想量化它。

Thanks. Second question. C.C., you mentioned the second generation of InFO for next-year product. Would that be for 7-nanometer product or 10-nanometer?

謝謝。第二個問題。 C.C.，你提到了明年產品的第二代 InFO。那是 7 納米產品還是 10 納米產品？

Starting with 10.

從 10 開始。

Starting with 10. Right. So it will start to have revenue contribution next year, second stage?

從 10 開始。對。那麼它明年第二階段會開始有收入貢獻嗎？

It should have.

它應該有。

The first half or second half?

上半場還是下半場？

Second half probably more probably.

下半年可能更有可能。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

All right, I think we will start questions that has been queuing in the line for quite some time. Operator, could you please have the first caller on the line?

好的，我想我們將開始已經排了很長一段時間的問題。接線員，你能叫第一個來電嗎？

Brett Simpson, Arete Research.

布雷特辛普森，Arete 研究。

Thanks very much. With regards to InFO and the CoWoS, as I see it, you're moving from selling wafers to selling turnkey chips on a good die, which is a big change in your business model. If you look out over the next few years when you ramp 7-nanometer, what portion of your leading-edge sales might be adopting this new turnkey model? And when it comes to DRAM memory in package, does TSMC take responsibility for sourcing and holding inventory for memory, or do you expect your customers to fix this? Thank you.

非常感謝。關於 InFO 和 CoWoS，在我看來，你正在從銷售晶圓轉向銷售優質芯片上的交鑰匙芯片，這對你的商業模式來說是一個巨大的變化。如果您在未來幾年推出 7 納米技術，您的領先銷售中的哪一部分可能會採用這種新的交鑰匙模型？當涉及到封裝的 DRAM 內存時，台積電是否負責採購和持有內存庫存，或者您是否希望您的客戶解決這個問題？謝謝你。

Okay. Let me repeat Brett's question. He's asking how much of our 7-nanometer business will also be using either InFO or CoWoS that TSMC's providing a turnkey solution? What's the proportion of our 7-nanometer business that will be of this type of business model?

好的。讓我重複布雷特的問題。他在問我們的 7 納米業務中有多少也將使用台積電提供的交鑰匙解決方案的 InFO 或 CoWoS？我們7納米業務中這種商業模式的比例是多少？

And then the second part is about memory in the packaging solution. If memory has any problem, whether it will be TSMC or the customer who is responsible for that problem.

然後第二部分是關於封裝解決方案中的內存。如果內存有問題，不管是台積電還是客戶負責。

Well let me answer the 7-nanometer, that how much of the percentage who use CoWoS and the InFO together, or it's just the CoWoS?

好吧，讓我回答 7 納米，同時使用 CoWoS 和 InFO 的百分比有多少，或者只是 CoWoS？

Just turnkey solution.

只是交鑰匙解決方案。

Just turnkey solution. Probably quite a big portion because of -- we offer InFO for very cost-effective packaging service and that we are here to improve the total packaging, the efficiency in terms of chip area or in terms of a thickness.

只是交鑰匙解決方案。可能很大一部分是因為 - 我們提供 InFO 以提供非常具有成本效益的封裝服務，並且我們來這裡是為了改善總封裝、芯片面積或厚度方面的效率。

For CoWoS, you are here up to 7-nanometer high computation space to compete in a very high-performance area. That would be a smaller percentage, but we see the potential. That's what I just mentioned in my presentation. So put altogether, I would expect quite a significant amount of 7-nanometer product will be using either CoWoS or InFO. That's one thing.

對於 CoWoS，您可以在高達 7 納米的計算空間中競爭非常高性能的領域。那將是一個較小的百分比，但我們看到了潛力。這就是我剛才在演講中提到的。總而言之，我預計相當多的 7 納米產品將使用 CoWoS 或 InFO。那是一回事。

Talking about the memory, stacking together with 7-nanometer chips, we -- certainly we offer the turnkey solution. But we are very flexible in working with the customer that all the possible combinations are all possible.

談到內存，與 7 納米芯片堆疊在一起，我們——當然我們提供交鑰匙解決方案。但我們在與客戶合作時非常靈活，所有可能的組合都是可能的。

Does that mean that you would purchase the memory and book the memory sale within the overall package, or would you leave your customers to purchase the memory and take inventory risk?

這是否意味著您會購買內存並在整體包裝內預訂內存銷售，或者您會讓客戶購買內存並承擔庫存風險？

Well let me see if I hear you correctly. You are asking whether or not we are paying for the memory and then charge the customer as part of the revenue that we obtain from InFO or it is separated?

好吧，讓我看看我是否聽對了。您是在問我們是否為內存付費，然後作為我們從 InFO 獲得的收入的一部分向客戶收取費用，還是將其分開？

Exactly. Yes.

確切地。是的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay. We don't buy the memory per se. We work with the memory supplier so that their spec, in terms of mechanical stress, in terms of a lot of things the flatness or those kind of things. We work with them but we don't buy memory and resell to the customer. However, we are responsible to stacking them together and as a whole packaging to our customer.

好的。我們不購買內存本身。我們與內存供應商合作，以便他們的規格，在機械應力方面，在很多東西方面，平坦度或那些東西。我們與他們合作，但我們不購買內存並轉售給客戶。但是，我們有責任將它們堆疊在一起，並作為一個整體包裝給我們的客戶。

Thank you. And maybe just one final question. When you look at TSMC 7-nanometer for high-performance compute, can you give us your perspective? How would you technically compare them to Intel's 10-nanometer, which will be in production relatively similar timescales? Yes. Thank you.

謝謝你。也許只是最後一個問題。當您將台積電 7 納米技術用於高性能計算時，您能告訴我們您的看法嗎？從技術上講，您如何將它們與英特爾的 10 納米技術進行比較，後者的生產時間尺度相對相似？是的。謝謝你。

Can you repeat the question?

你能重複一下這個問題嗎？

Yes. How do we compare our 7-nanometer performance and whatever the characteristics versus Intel's 10-nanometer, which Brett believes that timeframe-wise we are about to offer in these two technologies about the same time.

是的。我們如何將我們的 7 納米性能和任何特性與英特爾的 10 納米進行比較，布雷特認為，在時間框架上，我們將在這兩種技術中幾乎同時提供。

Well you have to ask our customers. I cannot speak for them. They have -- they definitely have their plan and we deliver our technology. And of course, as you know, they deliver their architecture differentiations. So really the end product performance depends on multiple factors. So I cannot speak for my customers at this point on this.

那麼你必須問我們的客戶。我不能為他們說話。他們有——他們肯定有他們的計劃，我們提供我們的技術。當然，如您所知，它們提供了架構差異化。因此，最終產品的性能實際上取決於多種因素。所以在這一點上我不能代表我的客戶說話。

Okay. Let's move to the next caller on the line. Operator, please.

好的。讓我們轉到線路上的下一個呼叫者。接線員，請說。

Steven Pelayo, HSBC.

匯豐銀行的史蒂文·佩拉約。

Yes, first question on 28-nanometer. It's still your largest segment, but it did decline last year, yet the total Company still managed to grow about 10% or more in 2015. What do you think for 28-nanometer this year? What type of growth -- I assume you think it's going to grow this year -- are you expecting?

是的，關於 28 納米的第一個問題。它仍然是您最大的細分市場，但去年確實有所下降，但整個公司在 2015 年仍然增長了約 10% 或更多。您如何看待今年的 28 納米？什麼樣的增長——我假設你認為今年會增長——你期待嗎？

Steven, we really cannot hear you that well. Can you move a little bit away from the microphone? You're asking about revenue contribution from different geometries.

史蒂文，我們真的聽不見你那麼好。你能離麥克風遠一點嗎？您在詢問來自不同幾何形狀的收入貢獻。

Maybe you can hear me a little better now.

也許你現在能聽得懂一點了。

Yes. Please.

是的。請。

No, I was asking specific to 28-nanometer node. It's still your largest node and yet it declined last year. And I was asking for this year, do you expect it to grow and by how much?

不，我問的是 28 納米節點。它仍然是您最大的節點，但去年有所下降。我問的是今年，你預計它會增長多少？

Okay. Whether or not we will grow 20-nanometer and by how much in this year?

好的。我們是否會在今年增長 20 納米以及增長多少？

Correct.

正確的。

Well, Steven, in fact, we deliberately combine 16-nanometer with 20-nanometer and we report that as one node, so we do not separate that. Sorry.

好吧，史蒂文，事實上，我們故意將 16 納米與 20 納米結合起來，並將其報告為一個節點，因此我們不會將其分開。對不起。

I was saying specifically 28-nanometer. That's your largest node. Do you expect that to grow?

我說的是 28 納米。那是你最大的節點。你期望它增長嗎？

28-nanometer? I see. Sorry. 28.

28納米？我懂了。對不起。 28.

Yes.

是的。

28-nanometer. Do we grow 28-nanometer and by how much this year?

28 納米。我們今年會增長 28 納米嗎？增長多少？

Correct.

正確的。

While Lora is checking with the number, all I can say is our revenue this year slightly lower than last year. Slightly. But percentage-wise, because our revenue increased, so the percentage of the 28-nanometer revenue --

雖然 Lora 正在核對這個數字，但我只能說我們今年的收入略低於去年。輕微地。但就百分比而言，因為我們的收入增加了，所以 28 納米收入的百分比——

C.C., actually, according to our forecast, 28-nanometer, dollar-wise, will be higher this year than last year.

實際上，根據我們的預測，C.C. 28 納米，按美元計算，今年將高於去年。

Will be higher?

會更高嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Good. Okay. As I said, stronger demand in the second half.

好的。好的。好的。正如我所說，下半年需求強勁。

So I confirm that. Okay.

所以我確認。好的。

I apologize.

我道歉。

Okay. Slight growth. That's fine. The reason why I'm asking the question is really to talk a little bit about above 28-nanometer. Competitors like SMIC are growing very fast this year and their capacity constraint, they don't really have any 28-nanometer really to speak of. So what's going on with the above 28-nanometer nodes? So above 28-nanometer, it seems like maybe TSMC's a big share. Is that right? Is that just China's influence? How would you respond to that question?

好的。小幅增長。沒關係。我問這個問題的原因，真的是要稍微談一下28納米以上。像中芯國際這樣的競爭對手今年增長非常快，而且他們的產能受限，他們真的沒有任何 28 納米可言。那麼上面的 28 納米節點是怎麼回事呢？因此，在 28 納米以上，台積電似乎佔有很大份額。那正確嗎？這僅僅是中國的影響嗎？你會如何回答這個問題？

All right. His question is for bigger nodes, bigger than 28-nanometer, how does TSMC -- what's our strategy compared to other foundries who are growing shares in those bigger nodes?

好的。他的問題是，對於大於 28 納米的更大節點，台積電如何——與其他在這些更大節點中增加份額的代工廠相比，我們的戰略是什麼？

Okay. For the older generations, our strategy is simple. We don't particularly to increase the capacity. We -- instead, we develop some derivative technology, such as in the CMOS image sensor, embedded Flash, power management IC. So to keep that whole capacity fully loaded, that's our strategy right now. We don't substantially increase the capacity as other foundry peers do it.

好的。對於老一輩，我們的策略很簡單。我們並沒有特別增加容量。我們——相反，我們開發了一些衍生技術，例如 CMOS 圖像傳感器、嵌入式閃存、電源管理 IC。因此，要保持整個容量滿載，這就是我們現在的策略。我們並沒有像其他鑄造同行那樣大幅增加產能。

And maintain good profitability.

並保持良好的盈利能力。

Okay. That's great.

好的。那太棒了。

Thank you. Okay.

謝謝你。好的。

My last question, if I can just sneak in here, is about the cap -- the dividend. You're raising your dividend yet you're generating more free cash flow every year so you're growing your cash balance. And seriously, when does this become too much? When does it start to impact your goal of sustaining greater than 20% ROE? Is there an optimal cash level and an optimal capital structure we could talk about instead of focusing on a dividend payout ratio?

我的最後一個問題，如果我能偷偷溜進來的話，是關於上限——股息。您正在提高股息，但每年都會產生更多的自由現金流，因此您的現金餘額也在增加。說真的，這什麼時候變得太多了？它什麼時候開始影響您維持 20% 以上 ROE 的目標？有沒有我們可以談論的最佳現金水平和最佳資本結構，而不是關注股息支付率？

So Steven's question is we have been growing free cash flow every year and our cash balance continues to go up. What would be a capital structure of TSMC or a payout ratio?

所以史蒂文的問題是我們每年都在增加自由現金流，我們的現金餘額繼續增加。台積電的資本結構或派息率是多少？

Steven, we don't use payout ratio. You know our dividend policy has alluded as sustainability and we have started to pay dividend since 2008 -- since 2004 actually. And there's a very long period of time we pay TWD3 every year for consecutive eight years, and then we significantly increased the dividend to TWD4.50 a year ago and then to TWD6 today. So if I look at from today's forecast, and we have confidence we can continue to grow our free cash flow every year, that is why I say the dividend policy will change from sustainable to sustainable and increasing. So that's the thinking that we have in mind.

史蒂文，我們不使用派息率。你知道我們的股息政策暗示了可持續性，我們從 2008 年開始支付股息——實際上是從 2004 年開始。而且有很長一段時間，我們連續八年每年支付TWD3，然後我們將股息大幅提高到一年前的TWD4.50，然後到今天的TWD6。因此，如果我從今天的預測來看，我們有信心每年繼續增加我們的自由現金流，這就是為什麼我說股息政策將從可持續轉變為可持續並增加。這就是我們的想法。

The current TWD660b in cash, is that an excess amount that you need or what is an optimal cash level to run your business? That's my last question.

當前的TWD660b現金，是您需要的超額金額還是經營業務的最佳現金水平？這是我的最後一個問題。

The optimal cash position depends on what you do with your cash. I think for now our cash is mainly to support our organic growth. We may have some M&A but we don't know at this moment. So we will try to be a little bit conservative in keeping enough cash to do the both. One way to support a sustainable increase in dividend, on the other hand to have some buffer if there's M&A case.

最佳現金狀況取決於您如何處理現金。我認為目前我們的現金主要用於支持我們的有機增長。我們可能有一些併購，但我們目前不知道。所以我們會盡量保守一點，保持足夠的現金來做這兩件事。一種支持股息可持續增長的方法，另一方面，如果有併購案例，可以有一些緩衝。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

All right. Operator, let's move on to the next caller on the line, please.

好的。接線員，讓我們轉到線路上的下一個呼叫者。

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

Mehdi Hosseini，SIG。

Yes. Thanks for taking my question. Can you hear me okay?

是的。感謝您提出我的問題。你能聽到我的聲音嗎？

Yes, we can.

我們可以。

Thank you. I have two questions, one on CapEx. A couple of years ago when you first started investing in 20-nanometer, there was a surge in CapEx as you were preparing 20-nanometer. Now it seems like 10-nanometer and 7-nanometer are pretty much comparable to 20-nanometer and 16-nanometer. And back then, a couple of years ago, after significant spending in 20-nanometer, then there was a period where your CapEx came in flat, or even last year it declined. Should we assume the same kind of CapEx spending looking forward, especially since 10-nanometer and 7-nanometer are comparable to 20-nanometer and 16-nanometer?

謝謝你。我有兩個問題，一個是關於資本支出的。幾年前，當您第一次開始投資 20 納米時，當您準備 20 納米時，資本支出激增。現在看來 10 納米和 7 納米幾乎可以與 20 納米和 16 納米相媲美。幾年前，在 20 納米的大量支出之後，有一段時間你的資本支出持平，甚至去年下降。我們是否應該假設相同類型的資本支出向前看，特別是因為 10 納米和 7 納米可與 20 納米和 16 納米相媲美？

Can you repeat the question, please?

請你再重複一遍這個問題好嗎？

Mehdi's question is when last time he saw TSMC having a surge in CapEx, that was the time when we built 20-nanometer, when we ramped 20-nanometer. He's asking whether same type of CapEx pattern will be repeated in the future when we ramp, say, for example, 10-nanometer.

Mehdi 的問題是，他上次看到台積電資本支出激增是什麼時候，那是我們製造 20 納米的時候，當時我們正在加速 20 納米。他在問，未來我們是否會重複使用相同類型的資本支出模式，例如 10 納米。

We don't believe so because, as Mark was mentioning, there's a very high percentage of conversion rate. So when we roll to the next generation of technology, a big part of it will be converted from the previous generation. So you will not see a step up type of things that we have experienced in the past; it will be gradually increase.

我們不這麼認為，因為正如 Mark 所說，轉化率的百分比非常高。所以當我們滾動到下一代技術時，其中很大一部分將從上一代轉換而來。所以你不會看到我們過去經歷過的升級類型的事情；會逐漸增加。

Right. The step up is happening in 2016. So in 2017 your CapEx may not increase, actually may be flat or down as the conversion starts to take place. Is that correct?

正確的。 2016 年會有所上升。因此，在 2017 年，您的資本支出可能不會增加，實際上可能會隨著轉換開始而持平或下降。那是對的嗎？

Whether 2017 CapEx will be flat or down compared to this year because of conversion.

由於轉換，2017 年資本支出與今年相比是持平還是下降。

It will not. It will not. As I just said earlier, I think you will not see a step up kind of things. But we will look at the business every year. And depending on how much leading-edge capacity we want to build in that year, also depending on the profile of the ramping, that's also another factor that will affect our CapEx. It's probably better to follow my earlier guidance that we believe in the next five years our CapEx intensity will be in the range of mid 30s.

它不會。它不會。正如我剛才所說，我認為你不會看到升級的東西。但我們每年都會看業務。並且取決於我們希望在那一年建立多少前沿產能，也取決於爬坡的情況，這也是影響我們資本支出的另一個因素。遵循我之前的指導可能會更好，我們相信未來五年我們的資本支出強度將在 30 年代中期的範圍內。

Okay, now --

好的，現在——

Okay. Great. I have a follow-up question regarding the near-term trend. You said that the customer days of inventory is going to increase in Q3 and you're not sure about the sell-through. Is it going to take a couple more months to better determine if customers are over-building, or do we have to wait till January/February timeframe? How do you assess this because your commentary is a little bit confusing, especially regarding days of inventory?

好的。偉大的。我有一個關於近期趨勢的後續問題。您說第三季度的客戶庫存天數將增加，您不確定銷售情況。是否需要幾個月的時間才能更好地確定客戶是否過度建設，還是我們必須等到一月/二月的時間框架？您如何評估這一點，因為您的評論有點令人困惑，尤其是關於庫存天數？

All right. Mehdi's question is how do we know whether or not the inventory that we are seeing today will be too much? Do we have to wait until next January or February to know, or do we have a method to assess?

好的。 Mehdi 的問題是，我們如何知道我們今天看到的庫存是否過多？我們是要等到明年一月或二月才能知道，還是我們有評估的方法？

Well, indeed, we cannot see crystal about sell-through. What we have told you about the unit growth is really the sell-in, sell-in to the phone service providers. So sell-through, indeed, there are uncertainties. But we see the growth of -- we assume the growth of 6% increase. And the model we -- the inventory level we cited is assuming the sell-through is also a 6% increase. If this differs then the inventory level will also differ accordingly.

好吧，事實上，我們看不到關於銷售的水晶。我們告訴你的單位增長實際上是對電話服務提供商的推銷和推銷。因此，銷售情況確實存在不確定性。但我們看到了增長——我們假設增長 6%。我們的模型——我們引用的庫存水平是假設銷售量也增加了 6%。如果這不同，那麼庫存水平也將相應地不同。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

All right. Thank you, Mehdi. Now let's come back to the floor. The next question will be from Credit Lyonnais, Sebastian Hou.

好的。謝謝你，邁赫迪。現在讓我們回到地板上。下一個問題將來自 Credit Lyonnais，Sebastian Hou。

Thanks for taking my questions. My first question is to follow on the advanced backend technology. So C.C. guided this year fourth-quarter revenue of InFO will be above at least $100m. Can you give us some guidance for fourth quarter next year, and also the fourth quarter 2018 when InFO and CoWoS combined?

感謝您提出我的問題。我的第一個問題是關注先進的後端技術。所以C.C.指導今年第四季度 InFO 的收入將至少超過 1 億美元。你能給我們一些關於明年第四季度以及 2018 年第四季度 InFO 和 CoWoS 合併的指導嗎？

The fourth quarter this year is high-volume ramping. Following next year it's supposed to continue this kind of production, I believe. So next year, the whole year will be much better than just this quarter times four. You are talking about in 2018 CoWoS and InFO together, or 2017?

今年第四季度是大批量生產。我相信明年之後它應該會繼續這種生產。所以明年，全年將比這個季度的四倍好得多。你是說 2018 年 CoWoS 和 InFO 一起，還是 2017 年？

2018.

2018 年。

2018. I believe CoWoS has a high potential but is still a small volume as compared with InFO. InFO is much more high-volume production, so most of the revenue will come from InFO.

2018. 我認為 CoWoS 有很大的潛力，但與 InFO 相比仍然很小。 InFO 是大批量生產，因此大部分收入將來自 InFO。

Okay. So based on your fourth-quarter 2016 guidance, it will probably account for 1% to 2% of your 4Q revenue for InFO. So is there any -- in terms of revenue contribution percentage for 2018 in terms of InFO and CoWoS combined, would it be higher than this 1% to 2% run rate?

好的。因此，根據您 2016 年第四季度的指導，它可能佔您第四季度 InFO 收入的 1% 到 2%。那麼，就 2018 年 InFO 和 CoWoS 的收入貢獻百分比而言，是否會高於 1% 到 2% 的運行率？

I would hope so, but I don't know the 2018 revenue yet.

我希望如此，但我還不知道 2018 年的收入。

Okay. Thank you. And my second question is on the 7-nanometer and 10-nanometer. Six months ago, I remember I asked the questions and Mark and C.C. answered me that the 10-nanometer revenue contribution in 4Q next year will be higher than the revenue contribution of 20-nanometer back in fourth quarter 2014. So I wonder, does that still hold?

好的。謝謝你。我的第二個問題是關於 7 納米和 10 納米的。六個月前，我記得我問了這些問題，馬克和 C.C.回答我說，明年第四季度 10 納米的收入貢獻將高於 2014 年第四季度的 20 納米的收入貢獻。所以我想知道，這仍然成立嗎？

Elizabeth, can you repeat the question? I don't quite get it.

伊麗莎白，你能重複一下這個問題嗎？我不太明白。

Yes. Okay. Sebastian's question is compared to 2014 fourth-quarter revenue from 20-nanometer with 2017 fourth-quarter revenue from 10-nanometer, which one will be bigger?

是的。好的。 Sebastian 的問題是將 2014 年第四季度的 20 納米收入與 2017 年第四季度的 10 納米收入進行比較，哪個更大？

Right now we -- the dollar-wise, we think it's bigger, but the percentage-wise is next year's business. So those numbers are too early to predict at this point. But 10-nanometer is very strong and we cannot give you a specific number for that. It would be around similar level, I think.

現在我們 - 以美元計，我們認為它更大，但百分比是明年的業務。因此，目前預測這些數字還為時過早。但是 10 納米非常強大，我們不能給你一個具體的數字。我想應該是差不多的水平。

I think 4Q 2014, our 20-nanometer was 21%.

我認為 2014 年第四季度，我們的 20 納米是 21%。

Yes.

是的。

But 2014 compared to 2017 will be a smaller year overall-wise.

但總體而言，2014 年與 2017 年相比將是一個較小的年份。

Okay. I understand. And given that you have more tape-outs on the end design -- tape-outs on the 7-nanometer compared to 10-nanometer, so we could assume that by fourth quarter 2018, the 7-nanometer revenue contribution, or in dollar amounts, should be a lot higher than 10-nanometer contribution fourth quarter 2017.

好的。我明白。鑑於您在最終設計上有更多的流片——與 10 納米相比，7 納米的流片，所以我們可以假設到 2018 年第四季度，7 納米的收入貢獻，或以美元計，應該比 2017 年第四季度的 10 納米貢獻高很多。

This is 2018 and we are middle of 2016, Sebastian.

這是 2018 年，我們是 2016 年年中，塞巴斯蒂安。

Yes, but --

對，但是 -

Whatever the guidance we can give you may not be reliable.

無論我們能給您什麼指導，都可能不可靠。

But you guys have a very long visibility, I thought so.

但是你們的能見度很長，我是這麼認為的。

Not that long. Not two and a half years.

沒那麼長。不是兩年半。

Okay.

好的。

But I think we will going through ramp, 10-nanometer going through ramp next year. And 7-nanometer will -- 7-nanometer and 10-nanometer will continue the ramp in 2018. Okay? Thank you.

但我認為我們將通過坡道，明年將通過坡道 10 納米。 7 納米將——7 納米和 10 納米將在 2018 年繼續增長。好嗎？謝謝你。

Okay. Thanks.

好的。謝謝。

Okay. Next question will be a follow-up from Morgan Stanley's Charlie Chan.

好的。下一個問題將是摩根士丹利的查理陳的後續問題。

Thanks for taking my question again. I just want to clarify Mark's comments on smartphone market share. So you mentioned that you believe you can continue to gain market share in smartphone semiconductors. But now you essentially have very high market share now, except for those in-house production from Samsung. So where is the upside for this market share in smartphone?

感謝您再次提出我的問題。我只想澄清馬克對智能手機市場份額的評論。所以你提到你相信你可以繼續在智能手機半導體領域獲得市場份額。但是現在你基本上擁有非常高的市場份額，除了那些來自三星的內部生產。那麼智能手機市場份額的上升空間在哪裡呢？

Where? Well, we and our customers work together to increase their shares. Yes, currently our smartphone with our customer market share is already very high. But we will gradually increase. We think we will gradually increase further. Many of our customers today in mid end were also attempting to get into the high end, particularly the silicon content of high end and mid end also increasing, which favors leading-edge technology that we provide. So those are the reasons -- those are the advantages that we have with our customer to be able together increase the market share we have.

在哪裡？好吧，我們和我們的客戶一起努力增加他們的份額。是的，目前我們的智能手機在我們的客戶市場份額已經非常高了。但我們會逐漸增加。我們認為我們將逐漸進一步增加。今天我們的許多中端客戶也試圖進入高端，特別是高端和中端的矽含量也在增加，這有利於我們提供的領先技術。所以這些就是原因——這些是我們與客戶共同擁有的優勢，能夠共同增加我們擁有的市場份額。

Okay. That's very clear. So gain market share along with your customers. Okay. So I just want to follow Donald's question on this short-term volatility because you risk CapEx for next year 10-nanometer demand. But I think the fact is that you disclosed in your 20-F, Apple and Qualcomm each accounts for 15% of your 2015 revenue. And we all know that Qualcomm may walk away to Samsung temporarily. And for Apple you also mentioned that you cannot predict that sales of, let's say, iPhone 7. So how can you be that confident to spend that CapEx for 2017 10-nanometer demand? Thanks.

好的。這很清楚。因此，與您的客戶一起獲得市場份額。好的。所以我只想關注唐納德關於這種短期波動的問題，因為你冒著明年 10 納米需求的資本支出風險。但我認為事實是你在你的 20-F 中披露，蘋果和高通各佔你 2015 年收入的 15%。而我們都知道，高通可能會暫時離開三星。對於 Apple，您還提到您無法預測 iPhone 7 的銷量。那麼您如何有信心將資本支出用於 2017 年的 10 納米需求？謝謝。

We cannot give you a specific number. It doesn't mean we are not confident. I think, of course, we want to support our customer for any growth opportunities they can possibly achieve. At the same time, we manage carefully about our capacity buildup. So this is a very complicated discussion with our customers. So at this point I think we will -- those capacities we built will be needed by our customers.

我們不能給你一個具體的數字。這並不意味著我們沒有信心。我認為，當然，我們希望支持我們的客戶獲得他們可能實現的任何增長機會。同時，我們謹慎管理我們的能力建設。因此，這是與我們的客戶進行的非常複雜的討論。所以在這一點上，我認為我們將——我們建立的那些能力將被我們的客戶所需要。

Is there any early indicator you will win -- keep very high market share as a 10-nanometer project for big customer?

是否有任何早期指標你會贏得——作為一個 10 納米項目為大客戶保持非常高的市場份額？

Yes. We have been working with customer for a long time for 10-nanometer and we believe our market share will be more than 70% next year.

是的。我們與客戶長期合作 10 納米，我們相信明年我們的市場份額將超過 70%。

Okay. Thanks.

好的。謝謝。

Okay. Follow-up questions from Citigroup's Roland Shu.

好的。花旗集團的 Roland Shu 的後續問題。

Thanks. I just want to take your assumption for 16-nanometer gross margin to be about 1 percentage point dilution of the corporate average in second quarter and 3Q. So I just did the calculation. It seems like in 3Q actually we don't have any benefit for the higher utilization on the gross margin point of view. So does that mean that in 3Q the average of 16% revenue growth in mainly from the product mix change?

謝謝。我只是想將您對 16 納米毛利率的假設視為第二季度和第三季度公司平均水平的稀釋約 1 個百分點。所以我只是做了計算。從毛利率的角度來看，似乎在第三季度實際上我們對更高的利用率沒有任何好處。那麼這是否意味著第三季度平均 16% 的收入增長主要來自產品組合的變化？

I think my question, just to repeat my question. I just take your assumption, 16-nanometer gross margin to be 1 percentage point dilution of the corporate average in second quarter and 3Q. My calculation showed in 3Q, even though we have about 16% revenue growth, however we don't -- it seems that we don't have any gross margin benefit on the higher utilization. Does that mean this 16% revenue increase is mainly from the product mix change, or in 3Q we have a higher depreciation to have a drag of the gross margin? Thank you.

我想我的問題，只是重複我的問題。我只是假設你的假設，16 納米的毛利率是第二季度和第三季度公司平均水平的 1 個百分點稀釋。我的計算顯示在第三季度，儘管我們有大約 16% 的收入增長，但我們沒有——似乎我們沒有任何毛利率受益於更高的利用率。這是否意味著這 16% 的收入增長主要來自產品組合的變化，或者在第三季度我們有更高的折舊來拖累毛利率？謝謝你。

So basically, Roland, your question is whether or not we will have a higher utilization rate or a lower utilization rate in the third quarter compared to the second quarter, and that's the reason for not giving you a 55% gross margin, right?

所以基本上，Roland，你的問題是，與第二季度相比，第三季度的利用率是更高還是更低，這就是不給你 55% 毛利率的原因，對吧？

Yes. And if the depreciation is much higher than second quarter.

是的。如果折舊率遠高於第二季度。

Higher depreciation, yes.

更高的折舊，是的。

It's a combination of many factors. We do have higher depreciation. Just imagine, we have back-end-loaded CapEx, so it's natural depreciation would go up from second half, that's one thing. And also we are ramping 16-nanometer, which we still have some dilutions. And we have a better utilization in third quarter as well. So if you took all those three factors together, that's the guidance that was provided, broadly based on those.

這是許多因素的組合。我們確實有更高的折舊。試想一下，我們有後端加載的資本支出，所以自然折舊會從下半年開始上升，這是一回事。而且我們正在加速 16 納米，我們仍然有一些稀釋。我們在第三季度也有更好的利用率。因此，如果您將所有這三個因素放在一起，那就是所提供的指導，廣泛基於這些因素。

Yes. So can we have a rough number for how high the depreciation in 3Q it will be?

是的。那麼我們能否粗略估算一下 3Q 的貶值幅度有多大？

I think it's TWD2.5b more.

我認為它是TWD2.5b更多。

Yes. It's about TWD2.5b quarterly depreciation.

是的。大約是TWD2.5b的季度折舊。

So it's about 1 percentage point lower in gross margin.

因此，毛利率下降了約 1 個百分點。

Roughly.

大致。

Yes. Okay. And the whole year depreciation is still increased about mid to high single digit, is that the same?

是的。好的。而且全年折舊還在中高個位數左右增加，是不是也一樣？

It's in the range of mid teens year over year. Mid teens.

每年都在十幾歲左右。中青年。

Mid teens?

中年？

Mid teens, yes.

十幾歲，是的。

That is very different from the number you talked.

這和你說的數字很不一樣。

No, I was talking about the same thing. Depreciation year over year will increase by mid teens. I didn't change that.

不，我說的是同一件事。同比折舊將增加十幾歲。我沒有改變那個。

Okay. No? I think it's not. Mid to high single digit.

好的。不？我認為不是。中到高個位數。

I'm sorry. I was looking at the wrong line. Yes, mid single digit. You're right.

對不起。我看錯線了。是的，中間個位數。你是對的。

Okay. Yes. Thank you for the clarification. And last question, for the DoI inventory, you said in 3Q we are still -- customers are still restocking in 3Q and in 4Q will be destocking and inventory days will be back to seasonal level. So does that mean that from first quarter next year, are we going to see a normal seasonality, normal quarter in first quarter or customers are going to restocking again from first quarter next year? Thank you.

好的。是的。謝謝你的澄清。最後一個問題，對於 DoI 庫存，您說在第三季度我們仍然——客戶在第三季度仍在補充庫存，第四季度將去庫存，庫存天數將恢復到季節性水平。那麼這是否意味著從明年第一季度開始，我們會看到正常的季節性，第一季度的正常季度，還是客戶將從明年第一季度開始再次補貨？謝謝你。

I think there are still uncertainties depending on how the inventory situation in the fourth quarter and over-sentiment in the fourth quarter, so it's a little bit too early to say that.

我認為取決於第四季度的庫存情況和第四季度的過度情緒，仍然存在不確定性，所以現在說還為時過早。

A follow-up question from Credit Suisse, Randy Abrams.

瑞士信貸蘭迪艾布拉姆斯的後續問題。

Thank you. Just to follow up on Roland's question, to pull it back to fourth quarter, where you talked about the inventory and the high base, is there a way to think about it relative to seasonal? What's the seasonal fourth quarter and then if you're thinking it's normal or below seasonal?

謝謝你。只是跟進羅蘭的問題，把它拉回到第四季度，你談到了庫存和高基數，有沒有辦法相對於季節性來考慮它？什麼是季節性的第四季度，然後如果您認為它是正常的或低於季節性的？

The question is fourth quarter, what you would expect normal seasonal, because you mentioned it's normally a correction quarter. So what's the normal magnitude and then how you see, at this stage, it could change, but at this stage how you see it relative to seasonal?

問題是第四季度，你期望正常的季節性，因為你提到它通常是一個修正季度。那麼正常的幅度是多少，然後你如何看待，在這個階段，它可能會改變，但在這個階段你如何看待它相對於季節性？

Fourth quarter is seasonally will correct. It will correct. What we say from third quarter, a little bit higher than seasonal going to fourth quarter seasonal, including both factors, correcting the deviation of seasonal. And also between third quarter and fourth quarter, seasonal will be corrected. The days will decrease.

第四季度是季節性將更正。它會更正。我們說從第三季度到第四季度的季節性略高於季節性，包括這兩個因素，糾正了季節性的偏差。並且在第三季度和第四季度之間，季節性將得到修正。天數會減少。

Okay. But do you think the decline -- because it was above seasonal in third quarter and inventory above, we could see below seasonal fourth quarter? Do you expect you could see a below-seasonal fourth quarter?

好的。但是你認為下降 - 因為它在第三季度高於季節性並且庫存高於，我們可以看到低於第四季度的季節性？您是否預計第四季度會低於季節性？

No, no. We see it's close to seasonal.

不，不。我們看到它接近季節性。

Okay. My follow-up question, IoT is one of your growth drivers. Your competitors, like Samsung and GlobalFoundries, have been pitching FD-SOI. Do you see any merits to that track or how do you see customer interest in that relative to the strategy that you're adopting, and any need to consider that in the future?

好的。我的後續問題，物聯網是您的增長動力之一。您的競爭對手，如三星和 GlobalFoundries，一直在推銷 FD-SOI。您是否認為該軌道有任何優點，或者您如何看待客戶相對於您採用的策略的興趣，以及將來是否需要考慮這一點？

Well let me answer that question. For the FD-SOI, the main merit is low power consumption, which I think TSMC has offered a complete set of technology roadmap for the low-power applications. We started from 40-nanometer low power and enter into 28-nanometer, now even 16 FinFET, we offer down to 0.5-volt operation voltage. Our experience, we're talking and working with our customers, the roadmap has been very satisfactory to their product needs. So we expect we are very well positioned to capture all the opportunities.

好吧，讓我來回答這個問題。 FD-SOI的主要優點是低功耗，我認為台積電已經為低功耗應用提供了一套完整的技術路線圖。我們從 40 納米低功耗開始，進入 28 納米，現在甚至是 16 FinFET，我們提供低至 0.5 伏的工作電壓。我們的經驗，我們正在與客戶交談和合作，路線圖對他們的產品需求非常滿意。因此，我們希望我們能夠很好地抓住所有機會。

Let me add to that. I think FD-SOI may be useful for specific products, but our bulk CMOS ultra low power has a much bigger design ecosystem. And IoT is a very fragmented design. And many, many customers are trying to enter that. So we think the ecosystem of bulk CMOS is much, much useful for our customers than niche FD-SOI application.

讓我補充一下。我認為 FD-SOI 可能對特定產品有用，但我們的體 CMOS 超低功耗具有更大的設計生態系統。物聯網是一個非常分散的設計。很多很多客戶都在嘗試進入。因此，我們認為體 CMOS 的生態系統對我們的客戶來說比利基 FD-SOI 應用更有用。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Okay. There's a question in the back. I think you are Merrill Lynch sales, right? No, you are not. UBS, sorry. The lady in the back is sales from UBS.

好的。後面有個問題。我想你是美林的銷售人員，對吧？不，你不是。瑞銀，對不起。後面的女士是瑞銀的銷售人員。

Thank you, Dr. Sun. This is

謝謝你，孫博士。這是

Julie from UBS. My question will be actually more simple than the analysts'. I'm actually quite interested regarding to the market share comment that Mark has made. I'm just wondering, regarding to the market share gain, would that be coming in from, let's say, your existing clients making into higher end of smartphone, tapping into areas they never have been before? That's one thing that's called market share gain, right?

來自瑞銀的朱莉。我的問題實際上會比分析師的問題更簡單。實際上，我對馬克所做的市場份額評論非常感興趣。我只是想知道，關於市場份額的增長，比方說，您的現有客戶是否會進入高端智能手機，進入他們以前從未涉足的領域？這就是所謂的市場份額增長，對吧？

Secondly, is it existing clients coming back to you that's also a market share gain? So which one would that be?

其次，是現有客戶回到你身邊，這也是市場份額的增加嗎？那會是哪一個呢？

Both.

兩個都。

Okay.

好的。

Yes.

是的。

So which one is happening faster?

那麼哪一個發生得更快？

They happen at the same time.

它們同時發生。

Okay. And would you be able to quantify the market share of TSMC in smartphone?

好的。您能否量化台積電在智能手機中的市場份額？

Currently we're about 55% and we expect to increase from that number further up gradually.

目前我們大約是 55%，我們預計會從這個數字逐漸增加。

Okay. My second question is actually what's TSMC's view on ASML buying Hermes? Does that help you going forward in terms of tools for procurement, or could you comment on that?

好的。我的第二個問題其實是台積電對ASML收購愛馬仕的看法？這是否有助於您在採購工具方面取得進展，或者您能對此發表評論嗎？

HMI Hermes has this defect inspection tool. It can detect very fine feature on wafers. And ASML and HMI merger intends to be able to develop the lithography more precisely controlled according to the wafer images. So I can only speak from industry or technical perspective. That definitely will help the capability of lithography tools and therefore help the technology capability and help the technology development for their customers. That's my comment.

HMI Hermes 有這個缺陷檢測工具。它可以檢測晶圓上非常精細的特徵。並且 ASML 和 HMI 的合併意在開發能夠根據晶圓圖像更精確地控制的光刻機。所以我只能從行業或技術角度講。這肯定會有助於提高光刻工具的能力，從而有助於提高技術能力並幫助客戶進行技術開發。這是我的評論。

All right. Last question, coming from Credit Lyonnais, Sebastian Hou.

好的。最後一個問題，來自信用里昂，塞巴斯蒂安侯。

Thank you, Dr. Sun. Just two quick follow-ups. The first one is that we noticed the consumer application in second quarter increased significantly, both from quarter-and-quarter and year-on-year perspective. Can you, C.C. or Mark, comment on that?

謝謝你，孫博士。只需兩個快速跟進。第一個是我們注意到第二季度的消費者應用顯著增加，無論是從季度和季度來看，還是從去年同期來看。可以嗎，C.C.或馬克，對此發表評論？

Video games.

視頻遊戲。

Okay. Thank you. And a very quick one. The last one is on the CapEx increase, about $500m, so I wonder whether that suggests some pull-in of the 10-nanometer expansion.

好的。謝謝你。一個非常快的。最後一個是資本支出增加，大約 5 億美元，所以我想知道這是否意味著 10 納米擴展的一些拉動。

Yes, it is. It's for 10-nanometer because we need a bigger capacity next year.

是的。它是針對 10 納米的，因為我們明年需要更大的容量。

But he's asking whether it's a pull-in, which is a schedule issue.

但他在問這是否是一個拉入，這是一個時間表問題。

For next year it's not; it's just higher demand so we need more capacity.

明年不是；這只是更高的需求，所以我們需要更多的容量。

So that doesn't have any correlation with the mass production schedule?

那麼這與量產計劃沒有任何關係嗎？

The schedule stays the same.

時間表保持不變。

Okay. So a follow-up on that one is that the -- does the CapEx mix still about 10% go to back end within the -- in terms of the new CapEx? Or they were skewed more towards the advanced packaging -- sorry, advanced technology, mostly on 10 nanometers and 7 nanometers for this year?

好的。因此，對此的後續行動是 - 就新的資本支出而言，資本支出組合是否仍有約 10% 進入後端？或者他們更傾向於先進的封裝——抱歉，先進的技術，今年主要是 10 納米和 7 納米？

The back-end CapEx for next year probably will be much smaller than this year, because we build up InFO capacity already. Next year we are going to be the second generation, probably just improve some features, that's all.

明年的後端資本支出可能會比今年小得多，因為我們已經建立了 InFO 能力。明年我們將是第二代，可能只是改進一些功能，僅此而已。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Okay. I think it's about time. And thank you very much for coming to our quarterly conference. I hope you will join us next quarter. Our transcript will be available very shortly, as well as the video replay. Thank you.

好的。我想是時候了。非常感謝您參加我們的季度會議。我希望你能在下個季度加入我們。我們的成績單以及視頻回放將很快提供。謝謝你。