SES AI Corp (SES) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the SES AI Corporation Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. My name is Bruno and I'll be operating your call today. (Operator Instructions) I will now hand over to your host, Eric Goldstein, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

大家好，歡迎參加 SES AI 公司第三季財報電話會議。我的名字是布魯諾，今天我將接聽您的電話。 （操作員指令）現在請主持人投資者關係副總裁 Eric Goldstein 發言。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone, and welcome to our conference call covering our third quarter 2023 results and financial guidance for 2023. Joining me today are Qichao Hu, Founder and Chief Executive Officer; and Jing Nealis, Chief Financial Officer. We issued our shareholder letter earlier this morning, which provides a business update as well as our financial results. You'll find a press release with a link to our shareholder letter in today's conference call webcast, the Investor Relations section of our website at ses.ai.

謝謝你，接線生。大家好，歡迎參加我們的電話會議，會議內容涉及我們的 2023 年第三季業績和 2023 年財務指引。今天和我一起參加的是創辦人兼執行長胡啟超；和財務長Jing Nealis。我們今天早上早些時候發布了股東信，其中提供了業務更新以及我們的財務表現。您可以在今天的電話會議網路廣播、我們網站 ses.ai 的投資者關係部分找到一份新聞稿，其中包含我們股東信函的連結。

Before we get started, this is a reminder that the discussion today may contain forward-looking information or forward-looking statements within the meaning of applicable securities legislation. These statements are based on our predictions and expectations as of today. Such statements involve certain risks, assumptions and uncertainties, which may cause our actual or future results and performance to be materially different from those expressed or implied in these statements. The risks and uncertainties that could cause our results to differ materially from our current expectations include but are not limited to, those detailed in our latest earnings release and in our SEC filings. This morning, we will review our business as well as results for the quarter.

在我們開始之前，謹提醒您，今天的討論可能包含適用證券立法含義內的前瞻性資訊或前瞻性陳述。這些陳述是基於我們今天的預測和期望。此類陳述涉及某些風險、假設和不確定性，可能導致我們的實際或未來結果和績效與這些陳述中明示或暗示的結果和績效有重大差異。可能導致我們的結果與我們目前預期有重大差異的風險和不確定性包括但不限於我們最新的收益發布和美國證券交易委員會文件中詳細說明的風險和不確定性。今天早上，我們將回顧本季的業務和業績。

With that, I will pass it over to Qichao.

這樣，我就將它轉交給啟超了。

Thanks, Eric. Earlier this year, we laid out the goal to transition to B-Samples, and I'm happy to report we're almost there. We expect to sign a sample joint development agreement, JDA, with 1 of our OEM customers in the next few weeks. This will be the world's first automotive B-Sample for lithium metal. This will be a historic milestone for SES for the battery industry and for the future of transportation.

謝謝，埃里克。今年早些時候，我們制定了過渡到 B-Samples 的目標，我很高興地向大家報告，我們已經快實現了。我們預計在接下來的幾週內與我們的 OEM 客戶之一簽署聯合開發協議樣本 JDA。這將是世界上第一個鋰金屬汽車 B 樣品。這對於 SES 對於電池產業和未來交通來說將是一個歷史性的里程碑。

We had to overcome monumental challenges to get to this point. One of the most important challenges was safety. And we're not talking about lab-scale safety. We are talking about practical real-world safety. In the battery industry, there's an inherent trade-off between energy density and safety. Many companies improve safety by using safer chemistries, such as lithium iron phosphate, LFP cathodes or solid-state electrolytes. LFP is indeed safer than high nickel cathodes. And in theory, solid state appears to be less volatile than liquid lithium metal.

我們必須克服巨大的挑戰才能達到這一點。最重要的挑戰之一是安全。我們不是在談論實驗室規模的安全。我們談論的是現實世界的實際安全。在電池產業，能量密度和安全性之間存在固有的權衡。許多公司透過使用更安全的化學物質來提高安全性，例如磷酸鐵鋰、LFP 陰極或固態電解質。 LFP確實比高鎳正極更安全。從理論上講，固態鋰金屬似乎比液態鋰金屬不易揮發。

So why don't we switch to these safer chemistries? While these safer chemistries appear to improve safety, we believe they make unacceptable compromises to energy density, manufacturability and other important parameters. For example, an LFP cathode has about half the energy density of a high nickel cathode. And solid state has yet to prove its manufacturability and performance in a cell that can actually be used in a real-world application.

那我們為什麼不改用這些更安全的化學物質呢？雖然這些更安全的化學物質似乎提高了安全性，但我們認為它們對能量密度、可製造性和其他重要參數做出了不可接受的妥協。例如，LFP 陰極的能量密度約為高鎳陰極的一半。固態電池尚未證明其可製造性和性能可實際用於實際應用。

So what's the point? We don't want our cells to be impractical but safe. We want our cells to be alive, powerful and safe. Our goal all along has been to improve safety without any compromises to other parameters. We start with a high energy density approach that has inherently higher safety risk than a lower energy density solution. And we make it safe.

那麼有什麼意義呢？我們不希望我們的細胞不實用但又安全。我們希望我們的細胞充滿活力、強大且安全。我們的目標一直是在不影響其他參數的情況下提高安全性。我們從高能量密度方法開始，這種方法本質上比低能量密度解決方案具有更高的安全風險。我們確保其安全。

It's extremely difficult, but we have always chosen to do things the hard way. That is what we will have achieved to qualify for automotive B-Sample for lithium metal. No one saw listened with a high nickel cathode would achieve the level of practical safety that we recently demonstrated in our internal testing. This was a combination of very exciting fundamental breakthroughs in materials and engineering.

這是極其困難的，但我們總是選擇以艱難的方式做事。這就是我們將取得的鋰金屬汽車 B 樣品資格。沒有人使用高鎳陰極來達到我們最近在內部測試中證明的實際安全水平。這是材料和工程領域非常令人興奮的根本性突破的結合。

Given advanced lithium ion with a high nickel cathode can have severe safety risks, and we believe our advancements address the safety issues in both lithium ion and lithium metal. For example, our new high nickel cathodes active materials have the same capacity as equivalent traditional high nickel cathodes, but are much more stable. Our new cathode electrode coating and treatment process allows the same cathode to pass rigorous safety tests, including nail penetration and heating. Has new pouch cell engineering with a self-venting mechanism that allows gradual safe release of energy during thermal runaway. A new electrolyte that is safer with no compromise on performance, a newly protected lithium metal anode and the new charging protocol that improves overall safety. These are fundamental breakthroughs in both engineering and materials, not just for lithium metal, but also for lithium ion, especially our developments in the cathode. We are now able to delay the thermal runaway on-site temperature and reduced peak temperature and pressure during thermal runaway, significantly.

鑑於具有高鎳陰極的先進鋰離子可能存在嚴重的安全風險，我們相信我們的進步可以解決鋰離子和鋰金屬的安全問題。例如，我們的新型高鎳正極活性材料具有與同等傳統高鎳正極相同的容量，但更穩定。我們新的陰極電極塗層和處理過程使同一陰極能夠通過嚴格的安全測試，包括釘刺和加熱。擁有新的軟包電池工程，具有自動通風機制，可在熱失控期間逐漸安全地釋放能量。更安全且不影響性能的新型電解質、新保護的鋰金屬陽極以及提高整體安全性的新充電協議。這些都是工程和材料的根本性突破，不僅對於鋰金屬，而且對於鋰離子，特別是我們在正極方面的發展。我們現在能夠顯著延遲熱失控現場溫度並降低熱失控期間的峰值溫度和壓力。

Some companies that are in earlier stage of lithium metal development talk about dreams of perfectly safe batteries. In most cases, the battery capacity or energy density is so low that it's useless. To be in automotive B-Sample, which we believe is the most advanced in lithium anode development anywhere in the world, we deal with practical safety concerns, not dreams on paper. It's exhilarating to see our batteries during safety tests going from big explosions to small explosions to big fires to small fires to just smoke. It feels like witnessing a successful rocket launch after many failures.

一些處於鋰金屬開發早期階段的公司正在談論完全安全的電池的夢想。在大多數情況下，電池容量或能量密度太低，以至於毫無用處。我們相信汽車 B-Sample 是世界上鋰陽極開發領域最先進的，我們致力於解決實際的安全問題，而不是紙上談兵的夢想。看到我們的電池在安全測試中從大爆炸到小爆炸，再到大火，再到小火，再到冒煙，真是令人興奮。感覺就像在經歷了多次失敗後見證了一次成功的火箭發射。

We recently completed our second testing bunker. Now we have even greater resource to test new things. For many people, risk means danger and should be avoided. For us, risk means innovation, and we embrace risk by creating a safe environment to test unsafe things. Without these bunkers without this safety environment to test unsafe things, we will not be able to understand the mechanism. We will not be able to make unsafe things safe and next-generation batteries and transportation will not be able to move forward.

我們最近完成了第二個測試掩體。現在我們有更多的資源來測試新事物。對許多人來說，風險意味著危險，應該避免。對我們來說，風險意味著創新，我們透過創造一個安全的環境來測試不安全的事物來擁抱風險。沒有這些掩體，沒有這個安全環境來測試不安全的東西，我們就無法理解其中的機制。我們將無法使不安全的事物變得安全，下一代電池和運輸將無法向前發展。

At our upcoming Better World 2023 in December, we will demonstrate some exciting videos of high-energy density lithium metal batteries passing very rigorous safety tests. We never thought we could achieve such safety while maintaining high energy density. This is a big milestone towards our goal of commercializing large capacity high-energy density lithium metal cells for automotive applications.

在 12 月即將舉行的 Better World 2023 大會上，我們將展示一些通過非常嚴格的安全測試的高能量密度鋰金屬電池的激動人心的影片。我們從未想過可以在保持高能量密度的同時實現如此安全。這是我們實現汽車應用大容量高能量密度鋰金屬電池商業化目標的重要里程碑。

In terms of manufacturability, last quarter, we indicated we will increase our A-Sample lines to 1,000 large capacity 100-mPOWER cells per line per month from approximately 500 per month. November will be the first month that we will attempt to build 1,000, A-Sample 100-mPOWER cells at our Chungju line in Korea. These cells will be used for both internal testing and OEM sample qualification and Avatar safety prediction algorithm training.

在可製造性方面，上個季度，我們表示將把 A-Sample 生產線從每月約 500 個增加到每條生產線每月 1,000 個大容量 100-mPOWER 電池。 11 月將是我們嘗試在韓國忠州生產線生產 1,000 個 A-Sample 100-mPOWER 電池的第一個月。這些單元將用於內部測試和 OEM 樣本鑑定以及 Avatar 安全預測演算法訓練。

We currently have 3 A-Sample lines in operation and 3 B-Sample line under preparation, 1 line for an EV application and 1 for a UAM application. For the B-Sample lines, we are in the final stages of completing our vendor qualification review. We expect to continue to use the A-Sample lines for B-Sample cell development until the new B-Sample lines become operational, which we expect to occur in 2024. By running our lines up to 1,000 large 100-mPOWER cells per month, we will also gain valuable experience in Avatar cell traceability and quality system development. We have even hired a dedicated field data collection team to help ensure that the data are correct and collected through the correct process. This team helps our Avatar algorithm safety prediction tremendously by providing verifiable and complete data.

目前，我們有 3 條 A-Sample 生產線正在運營，3 條 B-Sample 生產線正在準備中，其中 1 條用於 EV 應用，1 條用於 UAM 應用。對於 B 樣品線，我們正處於完成供應商資格審核的最後階段。我們預計將繼續使用A-Sample 生產線進行B-Sample 電池開發，直到新的B-Sample 生產線投入營運（我們預計將於2024 年實現）。透過每月運行我們的生產線多達1,000 個大型100-mPOWER電池，我們也將獲得阿凡達細胞追溯和品質系統開發的寶貴經驗。我們甚至聘請了專門的現場數據收集團隊來幫助確保數據正確並透過正確的流程收集。該團隊透過提供可驗證的完整數據，極大地幫助我們的 Avatar 演算法安全預測。

In summary, earlier this year, we established a milestone to transition to B-Sample and we are almost there. This is a major milestone for us and for the battery and transportation industry and is a result of solid fundamental hard core material chemistry and cell engineering breakthroughs in safety, for high energy density lithium metal batteries with a high nickel cathode. From A-Sample to B-Sample JDAs with EV OEMs, the most important value of these JDAs is helping us build a solid foundation in technology development, process development, engineering development, quality development and manufacturing development. With this solid foundation, we are now able to expand into other applications that are ideal for our unique high energy density and high power density lithium metal batteries such as drones and urban air mobility, UAM. These applications also represent early-stage commercialization opportunities for us.

總之，今年早些時候，我們建立了向 B-Sample 過渡的里程碑，而且我們已經快要實現了。對於我們以及電池和運輸行業來說，這是一個重要的里程碑，是具有高鎳陰極的高能量密度鋰金屬電池在安全性方面堅實的基礎硬核材料化學和電池工程突破的結果。從與電動車整車廠的A-Sample到B-Sample JDA，這些JDA最重要的價值是幫助我們在技術開發、製程開發、工程開發、品質開發和製造開發方面打下堅實的基礎。憑藉這一堅實的基礎，我們現在能夠擴展到適合我們獨特的高能量密度和高功率密度鋰金屬電池的其他應用，例如無人機和城市空中交通（UAM）。這些應用也代表了我們的早期商業化機會。

We are very excited about the UAM opportunity and believe that lithium metal will enable UAM in the 2020s, the same way that lithium-ion enabled portable consumer electronics 30 years ago in the 1990s. The world's first lithium B-sample will be a small step for SES, but has the potential to be a giant milestone for the future of sustainable transportation both on land and in air.

我們對 UAM 機會感到非常興奮，並相信鋰金屬將在 2020 年代實現 UAM，就像 1930 年前 1990 年代鋰離子使便攜式消費性電子產品成為可能一樣。世界上第一個鋰 B 樣品對於 SES 來說只是一小步，但有可能成為未來陸地和空中永續交通的一個巨大里程碑。

Now I'll hand the call over to Jing.

現在我把電話轉給Jing。

Thank you, Qichao. Good afternoon, everyone. Today, I will cover our third quarter financial results. and discuss our operating and capital budgets for full year 2023.

謝謝你，啟超。大家下午好。今天，我將介紹我們第三季的財務表現。並討論我們 2023 年全年的營運和資本預算。

In the third quarter, our operating expenses were $19.4 million, down slightly from the same period last year. Stock-based compensation expense was $2.4 million in the quarter. We reported research and development expenses of $8.5 million, up $0.1 million from the same period last year. Our gross R&D spending in the third quarter was $11.4 million, which includes $2.9 million that was billed to our OEM customers and is treated as contra R&D expense.

第三季度，我們的營運費用為1,940萬美元，比去年同期略有下降。本季股票補償費用為 240 萬美元。我們報告的研發費用為 850 萬美元，比去年同期增加 10 萬美元。第三季我們的研發總支出為 1,140 萬美元，其中包括向我們的 OEM 客戶收取的 290 萬美元，並被視為研發支出。

Our G&A expenses were $10.9 million, down $2.4 million from the same period last year. This decline was primarily driven by lower insurance premiums and lower marketing, accounting and audit-related expenses.

我們的一般管理費用為 1,090 萬美元，比去年同期減少 240 萬美元。這一下降主要是由於保險費下降以及行銷、會計和審計相關費用下降所致。

Through the first 9 months of 2023, cash used in operations was $43.9 million, and capital expenditures were $12.3 million. Importantly, our balance sheet remains very strong. We ended the third quarter with combined cash, cash equivalents and marketable securities of $342 million. We continue to believe our liquidity is sufficient to reach commercialization.

2023 年前 9 個月，營運中使用的現金為 4,390 萬美元，資本支出為 1,230 萬美元。重要的是，我們的資產負債表仍然非常強勁。截至第三季末，我們的現金、現金等價物及有價證券合計為 3.42 億美元。我們仍然相信我們的流動性足以實現商業化。

Our updated guidance for cash usage in 2023 is now $85 million to $105 million. This is comprised of cash usage from operations of $65 million to $75 million and for capital expenditures in the range of $20 million to $30 million. We continue to be very prudent with our cash. We have a very practical process to evaluate where we should spend our cash in order to execute on our business point and drive our commercialization road map forward, while we keep investing in core material innovation with the goal to always stay ahead of our competition.

我們更新後的 2023 年現金使用指引目前為 8,500 萬至 1.05 億美元。其中包括 6,500 萬至 7,500 萬美元的營運現金使用以及 2,000 萬至 3,000 萬美元的資本支出。我們對現金仍然非常謹慎。我們有一個非常實用的流程來評估我們應該把現金花在哪裡，以便執行我們的業務點並推動我們的商業化路線圖向前發展，同時我們繼續投資於核心材料創新，目標是始終在競爭中保持領先地位。

As Qichao mentioned, we're in the final stages of completing our vendor qualification review for Line 4 and Line 5 in preparation for B-Sample. We expect the bulk of our capital expenditures for Line 4 and Line 5 to fall in in the first half of calendar year 2024. We're making significant progress and remain on track for transition to B-Samples by the end of this year.

正如啟超所提到的，我們正處於完成 4 號線和 5 號線供應商資格審查的最後階段，為 B 樣本做準備。我們預計 4 號線和 5 號線的大部分資本支出將在 2024 年上半年投入。我們正在取得重大進展，並預計在今年年底前過渡到 B 樣本。

Our strong liquidity position allows us to continue investing in our next-generation manufacturing lines to support our OEM customers while continuing to innovate at the forefront of battery material science and to attract and retain top talent. We are very thankful for all the support we have received from our OEM customers and shareholders. With that, I will hand the call back to Eric.

我們強大的流動性狀況使我們能夠繼續投資下一代生產線，以支持我們的 OEM 客戶，同時繼續在電池材料科學的前沿進行創新，並吸引和留住頂尖人才。我們非常感謝 OEM 客戶和股東給予我們的所有支持。這樣，我會將電話轉回給艾瑞克。

Thanks, Jing. Bruno, let's open the line for questions.

謝謝，靜。布魯諾，讓我們開始提問吧。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Winnie Dong from DB.

（操作員說明） 我們的第一個問題來自 DB 的 Winnie Dong。

I was wondering if you can describe sort of how the next month of work will look like in the context of transitioning to B-sample. What are some of the key data points or transition to look forward within the next few months heading into 2024 as you're preparing Line 4 and 5.

我想知道您是否可以描述一下在過渡到 B 樣本的情況下下個月的工作會是什麼樣子。當您準備 4 號線和 5 號線時，在進入 2024 年的未來幾個月內，有哪些關鍵數據點或過渡值得期待。

Yes, that's a good question. So from a contractual perspective, basically, we're going through the standard legal and the financial process to getting the documents signed. And then from a practical work perspective, so 1 key thing that we have demonstrated is safety, hazard Level 5. And then we've already demonstrated hazard Level 5 at a small cell level. And then in the next few months, we need to further verify hazard Level 5 at larger cell level. So the safety is a key thing.

是的，這是一個好問題。因此，從合約的角度來看，基本上，我們正​​在透過標準的法律和財務流程來簽署文件。然後從實際工作的角度來看，我們已經證明的關鍵一件事是安全性，危險等級為 5。然後我們已經在小區級別證明了危險等級 5。然後在接下來的幾個月裡，我們需要在更大的細胞層面上進一步驗證危險等級5。所以安全是關鍵。

And then A-Sample was really about demonstrating the chemistry and the cell design and then now B-Sample, in B-Sample we are going to build about 5 to 10 cars worth of batteries. So now safety and then practical safety actually becomes really important. So they want to see a very detailed testing under very detailed testing parameters. And then both at the small cell level and also the large cell capacity level. And also, we are also in the process of completing vendor qualification so that we can start building the line for B-Sample. So B-Sample will likely take about 1 year to 1.5 years. So complete by end of 2024 to mid-2025.

然後 A-樣品實際上是為了展示化學成分和電池設計，然後現在是 B-樣品，在 B-樣品中我們將製造大約 5 到 10 輛汽車的電池。所以現在安全和實際安全實際上變得非常重要。所以他們希望看到非常詳細的測試參數下的非常詳細的測試。然後是小電池等級和大電池容量等級。此外，我們也正在完成供應商資格認證，以便我們可以開始建立 B-Sample 生產線。因此，B 樣本可能需要大約 1 年到 1.5 年的時間。預計 2024 年底至 2025 年中期完成。

Got it. And then earlier on this year, I think you guys have spoken about talent acquisition as 1 of the key initiatives this year. I was wondering with the year almost ending. Are you where you hope to be or need to be with your sort of like talent composition?

知道了。今年早些時候，我想你們已經談到人才招募是今年的關鍵舉措之一。我想知道這一年即將結束。您的天賦構成符合您希望或需求的目標嗎？

Yes, it's a talent -- I mean, we always want more and better. And we're never satisfied with talent acquisition and the market is very competitive, which is a good thing. I mean, it's a really exciting market. And then -- and you can probably tell the kind of people that we're trying to hire, battery engineers, material scientists, AI scientists, these are very much in demand, almost around the world.

是的，這是一種天賦——我的意思是，我們總是想要更多、更好。我們從不滿足於人才獲取，市場競爭非常激烈，這是一件好事。我的意思是，這是一個非常令人興奮的市場。然後，你可能會告訴我們，我們正在嘗試僱用什麼樣的人，電池工程師、材料科學家、人工智慧科學家，這些人幾乎在全世界都非常受歡迎。

So I'm sure we can always do better. But actually, recently, we actually made some pretty impressive hires. For example, on the material science side, we hired our Chief Scientist, Kang Xu. He is 1 of the world's most renowned experts in battery electrolyte and also with -- on the cell engineering side, we also hired -- we also made a few hires recently. And then -- and these guys have extensive experience from the big Korean battery companies. So actually recently, we made quite a bit of progress. And then that allows us to beef up our team for the B-sample and also to expand to eVTOL.

所以我確信我們總是能做得更好。但實際上，最近我們確實聘用了一些令人印象深刻的員工。例如，在材料科學方面，我們聘請了首席科學家徐康。他是世界上最著名的電池電解質專家之一，在電池工程方面，我們也聘請了 - 我們最近也僱用了一些人。然後——這些人擁有來自韓國大型電池公司的豐富經驗。實際上最近我們取得了很大的進展。這樣我們就可以增強 B 樣本團隊的實力，並擴展到 eVTOL。

So we actually have -- so in the past, we have 3 teams for the 3 A-samples. And now we're going to keep beefing up our team to go from A to B and also expand into eVTOL. So we're making good progress, but never enough.

所以我們實際上 - 所以在過去，我們有 3 個團隊來處理 3 個 A 樣本。現在，我們將繼續加強我們的團隊，從 A 到 B，並擴展到 eVTOL。所以我們取得了良好的進展，但還不夠。

And then maybe a more high-level question just in the context of like recent narratives around EV adoption curve that may be not coming as strong as expected, we sort of hear that from suppliers and we hear that from OEMs. Understanding that you guys are sort of in the product development phase, but do you hear any of this from your OEM JDA partners in terms of the adoption curve looking for not coming in that strong or you can color -- any color you can provide there?

然後，也許是一個更高層次的問題，就像最近關於電動車採用曲線的敘述一樣，可能不會像預期的那樣強勁，我們從供應商和原始設備製造商那裡聽到了這個問題。了解您們正處於產品開發階段，但是您是否從 OEM JDA 合作夥伴那裡聽到過這樣的信息，即採用曲線，尋找不那麼強烈的顏色，或者您可以著色 - 您可以在那裡提供的任何顏色？

Yes. I think I mean the adoption curve can always be impacted by, for example, the economy and then other factors. But the overall trend that's unstoppable. And then especially these OEMs like GM and Honda which, I would say, are behind the newcomers like the Tesla and NIO, they are very much committed to EV adoption. So there might be some impacts by the economy and other factors. But in terms of the battery road maps, no change there.

是的。我想我的意思是採用曲線總是會受到經濟和其他因素的影響。但整體趨勢是不可阻擋的。尤其是像通用汽車和本田這樣的原始設備製造商，我想說，它們是特斯拉和蔚來等新來者的背後，他們非常致力於電動車的採用。所以可能會受到經濟和其他因素的一些影響。但就電池路線圖而言，沒有任何變化。

Our next question comes from Shawn Severson from Watch Tower Research.

我們的下一個問題來自守望台研究中心的肖恩‧塞弗森。

Qichao, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the air mobility space. And I'm trying to understand, I guess, lack of a better word, the synergies between the automotive and transportation side and what you're doing in Air Mobility and then extending from that a little bit of the time line of what we'd be looking at in the urban air mobility space.

啟超，我想知道你能否談談空中機動空間。我想，我試圖理解，缺乏更好的詞，汽車和運輸方面之間的協同作用，以及您在空中交通方面所做的事情，然後從我們的時間線延伸一點我們將關注城市空中交通空間。

Yes, Shawn, that's a really interesting question. So all the work that we are doing with the EV OEMs in A-sample and B-Sample, building up the line, improving the quality, improving the cell design, the safety, the performance. Almost all of that get transferred to the eVTOL. Because eVTOL the urban air mobility meets all the parameters that the EV OEMs require. The safety actually even more rigorous safety requirements, the cell design, the quality, they need all of that. And then what's better is that for the OEMs you have -- I mean even though the EV OEMs are very committed to lithium-metal, you still have the incumbents like LG, CATL, Samsung, SK, the big companies that are very much invested in the EV space.

是的，肖恩，這是一個非常有趣的問題。因此，我們與電動車原始設備製造商在 A 樣品和 B 樣品中所做的所有工作，建立生產線，提高質量，改善電池設計、安全性和性能。幾乎所有這些都轉移到了 eVTOL。由於 eVTOL 城市空中交通符合電動車 OEM 要求的所有參數。安全性其實更嚴格的安全要求，電芯的設計、質量，他們都需要。然後更好的是，對於原始設備製造商來說，我的意思是，儘管電動車原始設備製造商非常致力於鋰金屬，但仍然有像LG、CATL、三星、SK 這樣的老牌企業，這些大公司投入了大量資金在電動車領域。

Whereas for eVTOL is blue ocean. And then some of the bigger companies are less interested in the eVTOL because the near term market -- they think the near-term market is smaller. But then for us, for next-gen batteries, it's really exciting. For example, say 1 eVTOL is about 2 cars in terms of batteries, right? So in the EV B-Sample, we built 10 cars water batteries. That's just the B-Sample for EV. But 10 cars worth of batteries, that's by eVTOL worth of batteries. If we supply 5 eVTOL worth of batteries to the likes of Joby, Archer, the eVTOL companies, then that actually consider commercial. And the volume is smaller, but then the margin, the economics are much more favorable. And also, it's a new market.

而 eVTOL 則是藍海。然後一些較大的公司對 eVTOL 不太感興趣，因為短期市場 - 他們認為短期市場較小。但對我們來說，對於下一代電池來說，這確實令人興奮。例如，假設 1 個 eVTOL 相當於 2 輛汽車的電池，對吧？因此，在 EV B 樣本中，我們建造了 10 個汽車水電池。這只是電動車的 B 樣本。但相當於 10 輛汽車的電池，相當於 eVTOL 的電池。如果我們向 Joby、Archer 等 eVTOL 公司提供相當於 5 個 eVTOL 的電池，那麼實際上就可以考慮商業化。而且數量較小，但利潤、經濟效益要有利得多。而且，這是一個新市場。

So the standards have not been set yet. And then we have the opportunity being the first mover in lithium metal for eVTOL. We have the opportunity to set the standards. And once you set the standards, then the FAA or in Europe the EASA, then they will adopt the standards. Then our lithium metal could be the first FAA certified lithium metal battery for UAM. And then once we set the standards, then we influence the next 5, 10 years of certification process in this field. So the impact is really big.

所以標準還沒制定。然後我們就有機會成為電動垂直起降鋰金屬的先驅。我們有機會制定標準。一旦你制定了標準，那麼美國聯邦航空管理局（FAA）或歐洲的歐洲航空安全局（EASA）就會採用這些標準。那麼我們的鋰金屬可能是第一個經過 FAA 認證的 UAM 鋰金屬電池。一旦我們制定了標準，我們就會影響該領域未來 5 年、10 年的認證流程。所以影響真的很大。

That's very interesting. And would you be able, I assume, through this process, get a lot of data, right, a lot of operating data that would apply back to [road] transportation. Is that correct?

這很有趣。我想，透過這個過程，您是否能夠獲得大量數據，對吧，大量可應用於[道路]交通的營運數據。那是對的嗎？

Absolutely, absolutely. And then I mean, we love working with the EV companies, but then those companies tend to be bigger, right? And then the eVTOL companies are more entrepreneurial and they are more like minded and similar size. And we work together and we share data, And we also tune our business model to fit what the market wants. So it's actually a really exciting market and eVTOL is actually happening much faster than we expect. I mean next year, at the Paris Summer Olympics, 1 eVTOL company will do a demonstration play. And then several cities around the world are beginning to have these eVTOL demonstrations. So it's actually happening much faster.

絕對，絕對。我的意思是，我們喜歡與電動車公司合作，但這些公司往往規模更大，對吧？然後，電動垂直起降公司更具創業精神，他們的想法更相似，規模也更相似。我們一起工作，分享數據，我們也調整我們的業務模式以適應市場的需求。因此，這實際上是一個非常令人興奮的市場，而且 eVTOL 的發展速度實際上比我們預期的要快得多。我的意思是明年，在巴黎夏季奧運會上，將有 1 個 eVTOL 公司進行演示。然後世界各地的幾個城市開始進行這些 eVTOL 演示。所以它實際上發生得更快。

And my last question is we've -- we've had the supply chain shift in place for several quarters now in terms of pushing towards domestic supply, right, and qualifying for IRA. What's the progress report there? Have you seen things materially changed. I know you have some special relationships in your supply chain. But are you seeing that this move is being made. And as far as your strategic outlook, you feel very comfortable that you've got everything that you need at this point going forward.

我的最後一個問題是，在推動國內供應和 IRA 資格方面，我們已經進行了幾個季度的供應鏈轉變。那裡的進展報告是什麼？你是否看到事情發生了實質的變化？我知道你們的供應鏈中有一些特殊的關係。但你是否看到這一舉動正在發生？就您的策略前景而言，您感到非常放心，因為您已經擁有了前進所需的一切。

Yes. Yes. So very good point. And then, for example, on the anode side, and then I was just at a conference with Applied Materials. So Applied Materials (inaudible) into these U.S.-based lithium anode companies are building up plants in the U.S. Some of them are in North Carolina, some are in other states as part of the IRA initiative. And then going forward, we definitely plan to purchase and qualify the anode from U.S.-based vendors. And then also in terms of lithium salt, we are working with a few partners to potentially set up facilities also in the U.S.

是的。是的。非常好的一點。然後，例如，在陽極方面，然後我只是參加應用材料公司的會議。因此，作為 IRA 計劃的一部分，應用材料公司（聽不清楚）正在美國的這些鋰陽極公司中建立工廠。其中一些在北卡羅來納州，一些在其他州。然後，展望未來，我們肯定計劃從美國供應商購買陽極並進行鑑定。然後，在鋰鹽方面，我們正在與一些合作夥伴合作，可能也在美國設立工廠。

So we can produce this salt for our high concentration solvent installed electrolyte. And so the anode and the salt are 2 really key parameters to us. And then also several of our cathode vendors are already setting up plants. For example, in Canada, North America to supply the cathode. And then once we are towards the later stage of B-Sample, then we will sit down with our EV OEMs and potential eVTOL OEMs to discuss where in North America to set up a plant for the battery cells.

因此我們可以為我們的高濃度溶劑安裝電解質生產這種鹽。因此，陽極和鹽對我們來說是兩個非常關鍵的參數。我們的幾家陰極供應商也已經在建廠。例如在加拿大、北美供應陰極。然後，一旦我們進入 B-Sample 的後期階段，我們將與我們的電動車原始設備製造商和潛在的電動垂直起降原始設備製造商坐下來討論在北美哪裡建立電池工廠。

Our next question comes from [Jeff Graham] from [Alliance Global Partners].

我們的下一個問題來自[Alliance Global Partners] 的[Jeff Graham]。

A question on the transition to B-Sample with the auto OEMs. Is there a way to assess how far behind. It sounds like you have kind of 1 kind of a front runner that you're very close with. Is there a way to assess kind of how far out the other 2 are relative to this first one? And is having one, assuming you get across the finish line, getting 1 to B-Sample, does that kind of give you guys an ability to nudge the others since there's some third-party validation? Or is that not really relevant as you guys have, as you guys see OEM seeing it.

關於汽車 OEM 向 B-Sample 過渡的問題。有沒有辦法評估落後了多少。聽起來你有一種與你非常接近的領先者。有沒有辦法評估其他兩個相對於第一個的距離有多遠？假設你衝過終點線，得到 1 個 B 樣本，這是否能讓你們有能力推動其他人，因為有一些第三方驗證？或者這並不像你們那樣真正相關，正如你們看到 OEM 所看到的那樣。

Yes. Good question. So actually, the spec, the transition from A to B for all the 3 OEMs and actually all OEMs around the world are actually quite similar, the performance and the safety. So we are going to transition to B with 1 of them because the testing and the type of studies and testing that we've done is the most extensive. And I would say the other 2 probably in terms of the gap, probably can be measured in months, just different OEMs.

是的。好問題。所以實際上，所有 3 個 OEM 以及全球所有 OEM 的規格、從 A 到 B 的過渡實際上都非常相似，無論是性能還是安全性。因此，我們將使用其中 1 個過渡到 B，因為我們所做的測試以及研究和測試的類型是最廣泛的。我想說，其他兩個可能就差距而言，可能可以用幾個月來衡量，只是不同的原始設備製造商。

In the past, a year to 2 years during the A-Sample development process, we had different time lines because we had different focus in then facilities, for line setup, but the progress is different. But then I would say the overall platform, the core technical progress that we make for safety and performance, that's very transferable. And different OEMs may have different internal processes for getting to the next phase. But also they're measured in months. But -- that's more on the contract level. But in terms of core technical progress, we made progress with 1 OEM, and then we get to B-sample. And that progress can be transferable to the other OEMs.

過去，在 A-Sample 開發過程中的一年到兩年，我們有不同的時間線，因為我們對當時的設施、生產線設置有不同的關注點，但進度不同。但我想說的是，整個平台，我們在安全和效能方面取得的核心技術進步，是非常可移植的。不同的原始設備製造商可能有不同的進入下一階段的內部流程。但它們也是以月為單位來衡量的。但是——這更多是在合約層面。但在核心技術進展方面，我們在1個OEM方面取得了進展，然後我們進入了B樣。這項進步可以轉移給其他原始設備製造商。

Great. That's very helpful. And for my follow-up, more of a macro question for you guys. But obviously, there's been some articles in the industry talk about some slowing EV sales and some building of inventories. I think a lot of that relates to cost as well as maybe some ranging side, which are obviously things you guys can address pretty impactfully. So I'm wondering if you guys are maybe seeing any different level of urgency from your JDA partners to move a solution like years forward? Or is it pretty similar from what you guys have seen historically?

偉大的。這非常有幫助。對於我的後續行動，更多的是向你們提出一個宏觀問題。但顯然，業內有一些文章談論了電動車銷售放緩和庫存增加的問題。我認為這很大程度上與成本有關，也可能與一些範圍方面有關，這顯然是你們可以非常有效地解決的問題。所以我想知道你們的 JDA 合作夥伴是否會看到不同程度的緊迫感，以推動未來幾年的解決方案？或者說這跟你們歷史上看到的非常相似？

Yes. So the OEMs have sort of modified their focus, for example, from range anxiety to maybe safety to maybe cost. But then in terms of technology platform, the OEMs have not really changed their commitment because, for example, lithium metal, it can mean longer range. But then it can also mean lower cost because a longer-range battery, if you keep the range the same, then the battery is actually smaller.

是的。因此，原始設備製造商在某種程度上改變了他們的關注點，例如，從里程焦慮到安全性，再到成本。但在技術平台方面，原始設備製造商並沒有真正改變他們的承諾，因為例如鋰金屬，它可能意味著更長的續航里程。但這也意味著更低的成本，因為續航里程更長的電池，如果保持續航里程相同，那麼電池實際上更小。

So you pack -- the packaging can be actually cheaper. So lithium metal can actually be designed so that it can mean longer range or lower cost to fit the OEMs target.

所以你打包——包裝實際上可以更便宜。因此，實際上可以對鋰金屬進行設計，使其可以實現更長的續航里程或更低的成本，以滿足 OEM 的目標。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Timothy Johnson.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自蒂莫西·約翰遜。

Yes. My question concerns the lithium metal anode. There are many processes for making such an anode. They're all problematic to 1 extent or another. Can you please elaborate a little bit more on the process that you use to lay down your lithium metal anode and whether or not you have any major problems with this going forward. I'm also interested in the composite coating that you're putting on the lithium metal anode. You mentioned today that you've got a new coating material -- and I'm wondering if you can elaborate on that.

是的。我的問題涉及鋰金屬陽極。製造這種陽極有多種工藝。它們都在某種程度上存在問題。您能否詳細說明您用於鋪設鋰金屬陽極的過程，以及您今後是否會遇到任何重大問題。我也對你們在鋰金屬陽極上塗上的複合塗層感興趣。您今天提到您已經有了一種新的塗層材料 - 我想知道您是否可以詳細說明這一點。

Yes. So also it covered he landscape. The first 1 in terms of how you put lithium foil down at the anode. There's about 3 main techniques for putting down lithium foil. And then 1 is extrusion, as you take the (inaudible) lithium foil and then extrude it like a pasta maker, extrude it to a thinner oil and then you laminate onto your turn collector. And then another physical deposition. This is inside a chamber, you evaporate lithium and then that falls on to your substrate. And then third is slurry coating. You can take the lithium powder, you make a slurry and then you coat it and then you dry off the solvent. And there's pros and cons to each of the technique.

是的。它也覆蓋了風景。第一個是關於如何將鋰箔放在陽極上。放置鋰箔的主要技術大約有 3 種。然後1是擠壓，當你拿起（聽不見的）鋰箔，然後像麵條機一樣擠壓它，將其擠壓成更稀的油，然後層壓到你的轉彎收集器上。然後是另一次物理沉積。這是在一個室內，你蒸發鋰，然後它落在你的基板上。第三是漿料塗覆。你可以將鋰粉製成漿料，然後塗上它，然後乾燥掉溶劑。每種技術都有優點和缺點。

I would say the most mature currently is the extrusion and then lamination. That's by far the most mature process for putting down in lithium foil. And there are disadvantages to that, for example, it's hard to make the foil wide, but we have an internal process for making the foil wide. And then that's why we're able to make the large format 100-mPOWER lithium metal cells. And then the other is in the extrusion and the lamination process for now. But we are actively testing the other 2 approaches because the 2 approaches may offer long-term advantages over the extrusion and lamination process. And for example, maybe in a year to 18 months, we might switch to the other processes and will keep the industry updated.

我想說目前最成熟的是擠壓然後層壓。這是迄今為止最成熟的鋰箔工藝。這樣做也有缺點，例如，很難使箔片變寬，但我們有一個內部工藝可以使箔片變寬。這就是我們能夠製造大型 100-mPOWER 鋰金屬電池的原因。另一個目前正在擠壓和層壓過程中。但我們正在積極測試其他兩種方法，因為這兩種方法可能比擠出和層壓製程具有長期優勢。例如，也許在一年到 18 個月內，我們可能會切換到其他流程，並保持行業更新。

So -- and for us, the different process basically comes down to which 1 gives the best metrics in terms of cost, manufacturing efficiency and performance. And then your second question about composite coating. So the composite coating serves 2 purposes. One is to improve safety, secondly, to improve the cycle life and we can't really get into the details of exactly what material we use. And the industry has different types of coatings and there's different ways and different places in the cell that you can put on the coatings. So I can't really get into the details, but it's basically used to improve safety and then prevent internal short and also to improve cycle life.

因此，對我們來說，不同的流程基本上可以歸結為哪一個流程能夠在成本、製造效率和效能方面提供最佳指標。然後是關於複合塗層的第二個問題。因此，複合塗層有兩種用途。一是提高安全性，二是提高循環壽命，而我們無法真正了解我們使用的材料的細節。該行業有不同類型的塗層，並且可以透過不同的方式在電池中的不同位置塗上塗層。所以我不能真正深入細節，但基本上它是用來提高安全性，然後防止內部短路，同時也提高循環壽命。

Our next question comes from [Amish Hu] a private investor.

我們的下一個問題來自私人投資者 [Amish Hu]。

My question is so previously, you have mentioned that A-Sample JD includes different cathode chemistry in addition to high nickel. Has any progress been made in other chemistry other than high nickel, such as LFP lithium metal.

我的問題是，您之前提到過，A-Sample JD 除了高鎳之外還包含不同的陰極化學物質。除了高鎳以外的其他化學方面有沒有任何進展，例如LFP鋰金屬。

Yes. So actually, in A-Sample, we tested both high nickel, LFP and also mixtures of those 2. And then in B-Sample we will continue to test these different capitals. And the reason that now that we are in B-sample, and that we need to finalize the cell design. But the final output of B sample is especially, we have to finalize the cell design. And 1 of which is what cathode we're going to use. And then these different cathodes will have different points on the [spider chart] in terms of safety, cycle life and cost. And this may vary for the different types of vehicles, even within the same OEM.

是的。所以實際上，在 A-Sample 中，我們測試了高鎳、LFP 以及這兩種資本的混合。然後在 B-Sample 中，我們將繼續測試這些不同的資本。原因是現在我們處於 B 樣本中，我們需要最終確定單元設計。但B樣品的最終輸出尤其如此，我們必須最終確定電池設計。其中 1 就是我們要使用的陰極。然後，這些不同的陰極在安全性、循環壽命和成本方面將在[蜘蛛圖]上有不同的點。即使在同一 OEM 內，不同類型的車輛的情況也可能有所不同。

Many OEMs will have, for example, the premium brand and the economy brand. And then, of course, they would wish to have 1 standard unified cell with a unified cathode, but that's not likely. So we are actively testing high nickel and those different types of high nickel, LFP, different versions of LFP and the mixtures of those 2. And of course, there are different ways of mixing those 2. And we evaluate at the end of the day, the performance, energy density and overall set of parameters.

例如，許多原始設備製造商都會有高端品牌和經濟型品牌。當然，他們希望擁有 1 個帶有統一陰極的標準統一電池，但這不太可能。因此，我們正在積極測試高鎳和那些不同類型的高鎳、LFP、不同版本的LFP以及這兩種材料的混合物。當然，混合這兩種材料有不同的方式。我們最終會進行評估、性能、能量密度和總體參數集。

So during the battery [roll] do you plan to share the data on other chemistries other than lithium metal?

那麼在電池[滾動]期間，您是否計劃分享除鋰金屬之外的其他化學物質的數據？

No. So all the data will be for lithium metal. The cathode may come from a combination of high nickel and LFP, but they're all lithium metal. We don't make any other cells. We only make lithium metal cells.

不會。所以所有數據都是針對鋰金屬的。陰極可能由高鎳和磷酸鋰鐵組合而成，但它們都是鋰金屬。我們不製造任何其他細胞。我們只生產鋰金屬電池。

Okay. So related to Line 4 and 5. Line 4 and 5 are designed for B-Samples since eVTOL has a lower volume, but can Line 5 be used for commercialization for eVTOL?

好的。所以與4號線和5號線相關。4號線和5號線是為B-Samples設計的，因為eVTOL的體積較小，但是5號線可以用於eVTOL的商業化嗎？

Exactly. Very good question. And I think Shawn, from Water Towers asked the same question. So Line 4 and 5 are very similar. Line 4 is for EV, but then it's 10 cars of batteries a year, and that's considered B-Sample for EV. Line 5, we can make 10 cars or 5 eVTOL worth of batteries per year. But that's considered commercial because in EV, no OEM will give you an order for 10 cars, right? But then in eVTOL, a lot of the eVTOL companies will happily give you an order for 3 aircraft or 5 aircraft, and these are very high margin. And this helped us set the standards in the industry. Clear Line 5 will be for much eVTOL...

確切地。非常好的問題。我認為水塔的肖恩也問了同樣的問題。所以4號線和5號線非常相似。 4 號線用於電動車，但每年有 10 輛電池，被認為是電動車的 B 樣本。 5 號線，我們每年可以生產 10 輛汽車或 5 個 eVTOL 電池。但這被認為是商業化的，因為在電動車中，沒有 OEM 會給你 10 輛汽車的訂單，對吧？但在 eVTOL 領域，許多 eVTOL 公司會很樂意為你訂購 3 架或 5 架飛機，這些都是非常高的利潤。這幫助我們制定了業界標準。 Clear Line 5 將用於許多 eVTOL...

So if that's the case, will there be a C-Sample line just for eVTOL or Line 5 is more like C-Sample and SOP for eVTOL.

因此，如果是這樣的話，是否會有專門用於 eVTOL 的 C-Sample 生產線，或者第 5 條生產線更像是 eVTOL 的 C-Sample 和 SOP。

Yes. Yes. So eVTOL OEMs don't really divide the phases as clearly as the EV OEMs. So B, C SOP are sort of mixed together.

是的。是的。因此，eVTOL OEM 廠商並沒有像 EV OEM 廠商那樣明確地劃分階段。所以 B、C SOP 有點混在一起。

We currently have no further questions. So I would like to hand the call back to the management team for closing remarks. Over to you.

目前我們沒有進一步的問題。因此，我想將電話轉交管理團隊進行總結發言。交給你了。

Yes. So thanks, everyone, for tuning in and also supporting us. And it's not been easy for us to get to this point, and we're very close to entering B-Sample for EV applications and then all the solid foundation that we've built with EV OEMs, we plan to definitely continue to work with our EV OEMs, and we continue to have a very good relationship and partnership with them.

是的。感謝大家的收聽並支持我們。我們達到這一點並不容易，我們非常接近進入電動車應用的 B-Sample，然後我們與電動車 OEM 建立了堅實的基礎，我們計劃肯定會繼續與我們的電動車原始設備製造商，我們繼續與他們保持著非常良好的關係和合作關係。

At the same time, we plan to take this solid foundation that we built modify it for eVTOL applications. It's a totally new field. It's a field that's happening much faster than we expect it and it's a field that like I mentioned earlier, lithium metal -- we really believe that in this decade, 2020, lithium metal is going to enable eVTOL the same way that lithium ion enabled consumer electronics 30 years ago in the 1990s. So it's a really exciting field for the future of transportation as well as lithium metal batteries. So I really appreciate everyone's support. Thank you.

同時，我們計劃利用我們建立的這一堅實基礎對其進行修改，以用於 eVTOL 應用。這是一個全新的領域。這個領域的發展速度比我們預期的要快得多，就像我之前提到的，鋰金屬領域——我們真的相信，在這十年裡，即2020 年，鋰金屬將使eVTOL 成為可能，就像鋰離子讓消費者成為可能一樣30 年前的 20 世紀 90 年代的電子產品。因此，對於未來的交通以及鋰金屬電池來說，這確實是一個令人興奮的領域。所以我真的很感謝大家的支持。謝謝。