SES AI Corp (SES) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. Thank you for attending today's SES AI fourth-quarter 2024 business and financial results. My name is Shayla and I'll be moderator for today. (Operator Instructions)

午安.感謝您參加今天的 SES AI 2024 年第四季業務和財務業績。我叫 Shayla，今天我將擔任主持人。（操作員指示）

I'd now like to turn the conference over to our host, Kyle Pilkington. You may proceed.

現在我想將會議交給我們的主持人凱爾·皮爾金頓 (Kyle Pilkington)。您可以繼續。

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our conference call covering our fourth quarter and full year 2024 results. Joining me today are Qichao Hu, Founder and Chief Executive Officer; and Jing Nealis, Chief Financial Officer. We issued our shareholder letter just after 4:00 PM today, which provides a business update as well as our financial results. You'll find a press release with a link to our shareholder letter in today's conference call webcast in the Investor Relations section of our website at ses.ai.

大家好，歡迎參加我們的電話會議，討論我們 2024 年第四季和全年業績。今天與我一起出席的還有創辦人兼執行長胡啟超；以及財務長 Jing Nealis。我們於今天下午 4:00 後發布了致股東的信函，其中提供了業務更新以及財務業績。您可以在我們網站 ses.ai 的投資者關係部分今天的電話會議網絡直播中找到一份新聞稿，其中包含我們致股東信函的連結。

Before we get started, this is a reminder that the discussion today may contain forward-looking information or forward-looking statements within the meaning of applicable securities legislation. These statements are based on our predictions and expectations as of today.

在我們開始之前，需要提醒的是，今天的討論可能包含適用證券立法含義內的前瞻性資訊或前瞻性陳述。這些聲明是基於我們今天的預測和預期。

Such statements involve certain risks, assumptions and uncertainties, which may cause our actual or future results and performance to be materially different from those expressed or implied in these statements. The risks and uncertainties that could cause our results to differ materially from our current expectations include and are not limited to those detailed in our latest earnings release and in our SEC filings.

該等聲明涉及某些風險、假設和不確定性，可能導致我們的實際或未來結果和表現與該等聲明中表達或暗示的結果和表現有重大差異。可能導致我們的結果與目前預期有重大差異的風險和不確定因素包括但不限於我們最新的收益報告和美國證券交易委員會文件中詳細說明的風險和不確定因素。

This afternoon, we will review our business as well as the results for the quarter. With that, I'll pass it over to Qichao.

今天下午，我們將回顧我們的業務以及本季的業績。這樣，我就把這個任務交給啟超了。

Thanks, Kyle. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us on our fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings call. Today, we are pleased to present an update on the new era for SES AI as we reap the benefits of our All-in on AI strategy, deepen existing EV relationships, move to the next stage of our evolution to a revenue-generating company and share our plans for additional revenue streams with new market expansion in drone robotics and battery energy storage systems, BESS.

謝謝，凱爾。下午好，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。今天，我們很高興地介紹 SES AI 新時代的最新進展，我們收穫了 All-in on AI 策略的成果，深化了現有的電動車關係，進入了向創收公司發展的下一階段，並分享了我們透過在無人機機器人和電池儲能係統 (BESS) 的新市場擴張來增加收入來源的計劃。

As you may have seen, we have made several announcements over the last several weeks, including the SES AI is reporting revenue for the first time in the fourth quarter. We are no longer a pre-revenue company and look forward to continuing on our commercialization pack by growing revenue in 2025 and beyond.

正如您可能已經看到的，我們在過去幾週發布了幾項公告，包括 SES AI 在第四季度首次報告收入。我們不再是一家尚未獲利的公司，並期待在 2025 年及以後繼續商業化，增加收入。

First, I would like to address the highlights in our EV space. Since the fourth quarter, we signed contracts totaling up to $10 million to develop AI-enhanced Li-Metal and Lithium-ion batteries for EVs with two automotive OEM partners. These contracts solidify our relationships with our OEM partners and continue to demonstrate the value these partners see in the use of AI for battery material development, especially the value that an enhanced electrode can provide for both Li-Metal lithium ion batteries.

首先，我想談談我們電動車領域的亮點。自第四季度以來，我們與兩家汽車 OEM 合作夥伴簽署了總額高達 1000 萬美元的合同，用於開發用於電動車的 AI 增強型鋰金屬和鋰離子電池。這些合約鞏固了我們與 OEM 合作夥伴的關係，並繼續證明了這些合作夥伴在使用 AI 進行電池材料開發方面所看到的價值，尤其是增強電極可以為鋰金屬鋰離子電池提供的價值。

Second, I want to address important work we have accomplished in urban air mobility or UAM drones and robotics. In January, at the CES 2025 Show, we unveiled an AI-enhanced 2170 cylindrical cell for humanoid robotics. Earlier in 2024, we signed a significant purchase order with data blended for drones for fire management and with SoftBank, perhaps communication satellites. This was a game changer as these AITENC2170 cells are the first batteries to use an electrolyte discovered by SES AI's more universe efforts, which maps the physical and chemical properties of the entire universe of small molecules suitable for battery electrodes, 10 to the 11th molecules.

其次，我想談談我們在城市空中交通或 UAM 無人機和機器人領域所完成的重要工作。今年 1 月，在 CES 2025 展會上，我們推出了人形機器人的 AI 增強型 2170 圓柱形單元。早在 2024 年，我們就與軟銀簽署了一項重要的採購訂單，其中包含用於火災管理的無人機數據，以及可能的通訊衛星數據。這是一個改變遊戲規則的事件，因為這些 AITENC2170 電池是第一批使用由 SES AI 的更多宇宙努力發現的電解質的電池，它映射了適用於電池電極的小分子的整個宇宙的物理和化學特性，即 10 的 11 次方個分子。

Our human scientists and AI agent learned that it's similarity between lithium metal and high silicon lithium ion cells in terms of electrolyte and old interfaces and/or development in lithium metal electrolyte could also address high silicon lithium ion challenges, especially slowing and cycles. We are now in both lithium metal and high-silicon lithium ion. 2170 is an industry standard format and is available on the large commercial scale. The discovery through our molecular universe effort is a dropping replacement. This allows us to add a CapEx-light model through contract manufacturing and to deliver a high energy density and high power density cell for customers in humanoid robots, drones, EVs, power tools and other applications.

我們的人類科學家和人工智慧代理人了解到，鋰金屬和高矽鋰離子電池在電解質和舊界面方面的相似性，和/或鋰金屬電解質的發展也可以解決高矽鋰離子的挑戰，特別是減慢和循環。我們現在既有鋰金屬，也有高矽鋰離子。 2170 是一種業界標準格式，可以大規模商業化使用。我們透過分子宇宙研究所取得的發現是一種下降的替代方案。這使我們能夠透過合約製造添加 CapEx-light 模型，並為人形機器人、無人機、電動車、電動工具和其他應用領域的客戶提供高能量密度和高功率密度電池。

Third, SES AI is planning to expand into a new and growing field, battery energy storage systems, BESS. Last month, we announced that SES AI signed an MOU with [indiscernible] targeting up to $45 million to provide up to 100-megawatt hours of advanced battery energy storage systems, BESS solution with AI for Safety and the first deployment of the crypto mining site in Texas. This relationship is the first of its kind for SES AI, and we believe that this is something that can be replicated with additional partners in the future. This project will involve our battery safety platform, Avatar, which includes our AI for Manufacturing and AI for Safety solutions.

第三，SES AI 計劃擴展到一個新興領域，即電池儲能係統 (BESS)。上個月，我們宣布 SES AI 與 [音訊不清晰] 簽署了一份諒解備忘錄，目標金額高達 4500 萬美元，用於提供高達 100 兆瓦時的先進電池儲能係統、帶有 AI for Safety 的 BESS 解決方案以及在德克薩斯州首次部署加密挖礦站點。對於 SES AI 來說，這種合作關係尚屬首次，我們相信未來可以與其他合作夥伴複製這種合作關係。該專案將涉及我們的電池安全平台 Avatar，其中包括我們的製造人工智慧和安全人工智慧解決方案。

Powering our commercial success are our two focus areas: upstream material discovery, molecular universe and downstream battery safety, Avatar. In molecular universe, our collaboration with NVIDIA on GPU enhanced computation chemistry software, help accelerate this effort to map the entire 10 to the 11th universe of small molecules from more than 8,000 years to just a few months. We have now mapped 10 to the 8th 0.1% of the molecular universe. We think this is the world's largest single molecule density function theory database, and we're also mapping solution and interface levels. These unique proprietary synthetic data help train our AI model that will accelerate novel electrolyte discovery.

推動我們商業成功的是我們的兩大重點領域：上游材料發現、分子宇宙與下游電池安全、阿凡達。在分子宇宙中，我們與 NVIDIA 在 GPU 增強計算化學軟體方面的合作，有助於加速這項工作，將繪製整個 10 的 11 次方小分子宇宙的時間從 8,000 多年縮短到短短幾個月。我們現在已經繪製了分子宇宙的 10 的 8 次方 0.1%。我們認為這是世界上最大的單分子密度函數理論資料庫，並且我們也正在映射解決方案和介面層級。這些獨特的專有合成資料有助於訓練我們的 AI 模型，從而加速新型電解質的發現。

As we have seen for lithium metal and high silicon lithium ion later, even LFP cells for BESS and other countries. With Avatar, we have developed a new foundation model to monitor battery health and predict incidents before they happen. This AI-based model works in conjunction with conventional footerspace battery management system, BMS, but it's agnostic to chemistry and factor and mission profile and currently has been pretrained on manufacturing data and cycling data across a variety of cell chemistries, including NCM, LSP and high silicon, graphite and lithium metal anodes, and form factors, including pouch, presented and cylindrical and mission profiles ranging from BSS to EV, drones and robots.

正如我們後來看到的鋰金屬和高矽鋰離子，甚至是BESS和其他國家使用的LFP電池。利用 Avatar，我們開發了一種新的基礎模型來監測電池健康狀況並預測事故發生。這種基於人工智慧的模型與傳統的腳部空間電池管理系統 (BMS) 協同工作，但它與化學、因素和任務概況無關，目前已針對各種電池化學成分的製造數據和循環數據進行了預訓練，包括 NCM、LSP 和高矽、石墨和鋰金屬陽極，以及外形尺寸，包括袋裝、展示和圓柱形，以及從 BSS 的任務和圓柱形配置、展示和圓柱形，以及從 BSS 的任務和圓柱形配置。

In closing, SES AI has seen some exciting advancements during the end of 2024 and at the start of 2025, especially with us recognizing revenue for the first time in our history. All-in on AI is not only critical but is the future. We see great things continuing going forward. Here are some of the things I see happening. The change in our business model.

最後，SES AI 在 2024 年底和 2025 年初取得了一些令人興奮的進步，尤其是我們歷史上第一次實現了收入。全力投入人工智慧不僅至關重要，而且代表著未來。我們預見偉大的事情將繼續向前發展。以下是我看到的一些正在發生的事情。我們的商業模式發生了變化。

Originally, we envisioned CapEx-heavy plans to manufacture cells for EVs and OEM at scale and then offsetting some of the required costs through JVs. Now our business model focuses heavily on selling our AI models and core battery materials, contract manufacturing of cells using our electrolyte and selling of contract imported cells.

最初，我們設想了資本支出密集型計劃，大規模生產電動車和 OEM 電池，然後透過合資企業抵消部分所需成本。現在我們的商業模式主要集中在銷售我們的人工智慧模型和核心電池材料、使用我們的電解質進行電池的合約製造以及合約進口電池的銷售。

A focus on hiring of AI scientists and sales and marketing teams to pursue greater expansion of revenue opportunities from 2025 to 2027, continued evolution from a pre-revenue EV-focused battery technology company levered to 1 battery chemistry to a company that can leverage its prior work, along with its AI technology and AI enabled electrolyze to generate revenue in a CapEx-light model, much earlier than anticipated and with an ability to tap two new adjacent verticals that we believe will be much larger than EV.

專注於聘請人工智慧科學家以及銷售和行銷團隊，以尋求在 2025 年至 2027 年期間進一步擴大收入機會，從一家專注於 1 種電池化學的未盈利電動汽車電池技術公司，繼續發展成為一家能夠利用其先前工作成果以及人工智能技術和人工智能電解以輕資本支出模式創造收入的公司，這比預期要早得多，並且有能力挖掘我們認為垂直汽車的新領域，我們認為要早得多，並且有能力挖掘比電動相鄰的新領域。

Thank you for your continued interest in SES AI. And now I'll turn it over to Jing for financial updates.

感謝您對 SES AI 的持續關注。現在我將把時間交給 Jing 來報告財務最新情況。

Good afternoon, everyone. I will discuss our financial performance for the fourth quarter and full year 2024. I am pleased to share our financial results and provide insights into our fiscal health strategic priorities, commercialization plans and 2025 outlook. For the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2024, revenue milestone. We reported Q4 2024 revenue of $2 million, marking the beginning of our evolution into a commercialized and revenue-generating business.

大家下午好。我將討論我們 2024 年第四季和全年的財務表現。我很高興分享我們的財務業績，並提供有關我們的財務健康策略重點、商業化計劃和 2025 年展望的見解。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度，營收里程碑。我們報告的 2024 年第四季營收為 200 萬美元，標誌著我們開始轉型為商業化和創收業務。

This revenue was primarily driven by contracts with our automotive OEM partners to develop AI-enhanced lithium metal and lithium-ion batteries for EV applications and initial delivery of our lithium metal cells to our customers like SoftBank perhaps and data blanket for drone applications. Importantly, this revenue comes with a 63% gross margin, demonstrating the strong value proposition of our technology and OEM and AI strategy.

這筆收入主要來自我們與汽車 OEM 合作夥伴簽訂的合同，以開發用於電動車應用的 AI 增強鋰金屬和鋰離子電池，以及向軟銀等客戶首次交付鋰金屬電池和用於無人機應用的數據毯。重要的是，這筆收入的毛利率高達 63%，證明了我們的技術、OEM 和 AI 策略的強大價值主張。

Operating expenses. Our GAAP operating expenses were $30.4 million for the quarter, primarily driven by research and development initiatives and general administrative costs. Cash flow. We utilized $12.3 million in cash from operations and invested $0.2 million in capital expenditures during the quarter. Liquidity.

營業費用。本季我們的 GAAP 營運費用為 3,040 萬美元，主要由研發計劃和一般管理費用所驅動。現金週轉。本季度，我們利用了 1,230 萬美元的營運現金，並投資了 20 萬美元的資本支出。流動性。

We concluded the quarter with a strong liquidity position of $262.5 million, ensuring our ability to fund ongoing and future projects.

本季結束時，我們的流動資金狀況強勁，達到 2.625 億美元，確保了我們有能力為正在進行的項目和未來的項目提供資金。

For the full year 2024, we achieved a total cash usage in operations and capital expenditures of $78.3 million, below the low end of our previous guidance of $80 million to $95 million. This includes our operational cash usage of $66.1 million and capital expenditures of $12.2 million. As we look ahead, SES AI is well positioned for continued growth and disciplined investment in 2025. The greater visibility we now have on revenue has allowed us to provide some guidance for 2025. As you know, this will be the first time that we are providing this outlook.

2024 年全年，我們的營運和資本支出現金總額為 7,830 萬美元，低於我們先前預測的 8,000 萬至 9,500 萬美元的低端。其中包括我們的營運現金使用量 6,610 萬美元和資本支出 1,220 萬美元。展望未來，SES AI 已做好準備，在 2025 年繼續成長並進行有紀律的投資。我們現在對收入有了更大的了解，這使我們能夠為 2025 年提供一些指導。如您所知，這是我們第一次提供這種展望。

Therefore, we are being conservative in our expectations and focusing on the full year outlook rather than any particular quarterly cadence of revenue or expenses. We intend to update this outlook during the year as needed.

因此，我們的預期比較保守，關注的是全年前景，而不是任何特定季度的收入或支出節奏。我們打算根據需要在今年更新這項展望。

Revenue outlook. We anticipate 2025 revenue to be between $15 million and $25 million, reflecting growth from our expanding partnerships and commercialization efforts. We expect to generate revenue from development of AI-enhanced lithium metal and lithium-ion batteries for EV applications, delivery of battery cells to UAM, drones and robotics customers and delivery of integrated battery energy storage systems with our AI solutions.

收入前景。我們預計 2025 年的收入將在 1500 萬美元至 2500 萬美元之間，這反映了我們不斷擴大的合作夥伴關係和商業化努力帶來的成長。我們期望透過開發用於電動車應用的人工智慧增強型鋰金屬和鋰離子電池、向城市空中交通、無人機和機器人客戶交付電池單元以及交付帶有我們的人工智慧解決方案的整合電池儲能係統來獲得收入。

Planned spending. We forecast total cash usage in operations and CapEx to be between $70 million and $80 million, prioritizing R&D advancements, commercialization and strategic market expansion with a capital-light business model. Cash management. Our strong liquidity position extends our runway and continues to support our long-term vision with a focus on financial discipline and strategic investments. With our CapEx-light business model, we expect to maintain adequate liquidity well into 2028.

計劃支出。我們預測營運和資本支出的總現金使用量將在 7,000 萬美元至 8,000 萬美元之間，優先考慮研發進步、商業化和策略市場擴張以及輕資本業務模式。現金管理。我們強大的流動性狀況延長了我們的發展空間，並繼續支持我們以財務紀律和策略投資為重點的長期願景。憑藉我們的輕資本支出業務模式，我們預計到 2028 年將保持充足的流動性。

We see tremendous organic and inorganic growth opportunities ahead of us. We are well capitalized to capture these opportunities in a disciplined fashion, particularly with additional funds from our projected revenue growth and/or potential capital markets activity, further enhancing our liquidity.

我們看到眼前有巨大的有機和無機成長機會。我們擁有充足的資本，能夠以嚴謹的方式抓住這些機會，特別是透過預期的收入成長和/或潛在的資本市場活動所獲得的額外資金，進一步增強我們的流動性。

2024 was a transformative year for SES AI. Achieving our first revenue milestone with a positive gross margin is a pivotal moment that signals our evolution from an R&D-focused company to a commercial and revenue-generating business. With high-margin revenue, growing partnerships and disciplined financial management, we are excited about the opportunities ahead.

2024 年是 SES AI 轉型的一年。實現我們的第一個收入里程碑並實現正毛利率是一個關鍵時刻，標誌著我們從以研發為中心的公司轉變為商業和創收型企業。憑藉高利潤的收入、不斷增長的合作夥伴關係和嚴格的財務管理，我們對未來的機會充滿期待。

We appreciate your continued support and confidence in SES AI. Thank you. Now I will turn the call back to the operator.

我們感謝您對 SES AI 的持續支持與信任。謝謝。現在我將把電話轉回給接線生。

(Operator Instructions) Winnie Dong, Deutsche Bank.

（操作員指示）德意志銀行的 Winnie Dong。

Qichao, wondering maybe you can talk about the shift in strategy here. In particular, what led to this shift? And then it was mentioned that there was signing up contracts totaling up to $10 million for two leading auto OEM partners. If you are able to reveal, are they the same OEM partners that SES has GDA partners with? And how is it different from those previous ones with Honda, Hyundai?

齊超，我想問您能否談談這裡的策略轉變。具體來說，是什麼導致了這種轉變？然後提到，已經與兩家領先的汽車 OEM 合作夥伴簽署了總額高達 1000 萬美元的合約。如果您可以透露的話，他們是否與 SES 的 GDA 合作夥伴是相同的 OEM 合作夥伴？它與之前本田、現代的產品有何不同？

Yes, Winnie. So previously, we just focus on just lithium metal for EVs, right? And I think our work in lithium metal, it wasn't just as a battery cell level, it was more fundamental. It was more as a material discovery level for the electrolyte and then also at the lithium metal battery safety side. And then these two core we noticed and also the OEMs that we're working with notice that we could actually apply this to lithium-ion.

是的，溫妮。所以以前我們只關注電動車的鋰金屬，對嗎？我認為我們在鋰金屬方面的工作不僅僅是電池層面的工作，而是更基礎的工作。它更多的是作為電解質的材料發現水平，然後也作為鋰金屬電池安全方面。然後我們注意到這兩個核心，與我們合作的 OEM 也注意到我們實際上可以將其應用於鋰離子。

And then once you expand to beyond just 1 technology, just 1 battery technology, and you can apply a platform to actually two platforms to multiple chemistries, then the addressable markets become much larger.

然後，一旦你擴展到不僅僅是 1 種技術，不僅僅是 1 種電池技術，而且你可以將一個平台應用於實際上兩個平台到多種化學反應，那麼可尋址市場就會變得更大。

So of course, we -- of course, I think anyone we just make us jump from a single technology in a single market to two platform across almost every battery technology out there. So that was a very obvious jump and I think quite exciting jump. And then in terms of the two OEMs, I think even guess the two OEMs that we have been working with for a long time and they solve this transferability from just a single chemistry in a single market to every battery chemistry across multiple markets that the target EVs, other is being 1 of the most important ones, but also drones, the new drones and robotics, both of them do robotics as well and then also urbain air mobility. So yes, that was the motivation for why we switch from just a single chemistry to multiple markets.

所以當然，我們——當然，我認為任何人都可以讓我們從一個市場中的單一技術跳到幾乎所有電池技術的兩個平台。所以這是一個非常明顯的跳躍，而且我認為相當令人興奮的跳躍。然後就兩家 OEM 而言，我想我們甚至猜測這兩家 OEM 已經與我們合作了很長時間，他們解決了這種可轉移性，從單一市場的單一化學成分到跨多個市場的每種電池化學成分，目標市場是電動汽車，另一個是最重要的市場之一，還有無人機、新型無人機和機器人技術，他們都在做機器人技術，然後還有空中機器人交通。是的，這就是我們從單一化學轉向多個市場的動機。

I just want to follow up on the contract manufacturing. Are you able to and any sort of economics behind that? If we should think that the gross margin was [ 63% ] in Q4, which was very impressive. Is this sort of like an initial type of metrics that we should look at? And how will this evolve I guess, heading into 2025?

我只是想跟進合約製造的情況。您能做到嗎？這背後有什麼經濟學根據嗎？如果我們認為第四季度的毛利率為 [ 63% ]，那將是非常令人印象深刻的。這是否有點像是我們應該關注的初始指標類型？我猜想，到 2025 年，這種情況會如何發展？

So I think it's too early to address that. And that margin was actually a mix of the AI models to service as well as the actual selling of the sales. But going forward, in terms of the consumer manufacturing, I mean our goal to country manufacturing is to have a high margin. And I think it's well known that these next-generation battery companies just cannot compete at scale with any of the large incumbent battery players. So this is why we do control manufacturing to achieve high margin.

所以我認為現在解決這個問題還為時過早。而這個利潤率其實是人工智慧模型服務以及實際銷售的結合。但展望未來，就消費製造業而言，我們的國家製造業目標是實現高利潤率。我認為眾所周知的是，這些新一代電池公司根本無法與任何現有的大型電池公司進行規模競爭。這就是我們控制製造以實現高利潤的原因。

But the actual numbers that's going to evolve based on volume, based on the particular application and customers.

但實際數字將根據數量、特定應用和客戶而變化。

Brian Gordon, Water Tower Research.

布萊恩·戈登（Brian Gordon），水塔研究公司。

First of all, congratulations on achieving revenue. It's a really significant event for the company. I did want to follow up on the gross margins, though. It seems like there are two different ways that you guys are sort of transitioning the business model. 1 is kind of, let's say, selling software versus selling hardware.

首先恭喜您實現收益。這對公司來說是一件非常重要的事件。不過，我確實想追蹤一下毛利率。看起來你們正在透過兩種不同的方式來轉變商業模式。 1 可以說是銷售軟體而不是銷售硬體。

Could you talk a little bit about how you see both the revenue opportunity for that and how that could potentially impact margins going forward?

您能否稍微談談您如何看待這個收入機會以及這可能會對未來的利潤率產生什麼影響？

Yes. Obviously, we want to sell just the software because that's a pure high-margin business. At the same time, for both the materials and the battery safety, it's hard to just sell the software without the hardware. So the hardware is like the hook to get a customer and then you sell the software on top of that. And the hardware -- on the material side, we counter manufacture these cells and the cells are like a carrier for our materials, and that demonstrates the benefit and the power of the software.

是的。顯然，我們只想銷售軟體，因為這是一個純粹的高利潤業務。同時，無論是材料還是電池安全，只賣軟體而不賣硬體是很難的。因此，硬體就像吸引客戶的誘餌，然後在此基礎上銷售軟體。而在硬體方面——在材料方面，我們反向製造這些電池，這些電池就像我們材料的載體，這展示了軟體的優勢和威力。

So initially, it's going to be the margin is going to be a mix between the cells and the software. But once we grow this demand and then we do point to shift to more pure software business.

因此，最初，利潤將是電池和軟體之間的混合。但一旦我們擴大了這種需求，我們就會轉向更純粹的軟體業務。

And same thing for Avatar, the pure Avatar itself is, of course, very high margin, but then it's hard to sell just a software to BSS, you want to attach it to a hardware. And that's why initially, we -- for example, in the partnership with ASX, it will be the entire solution is the BSS hardware with the software.

對於《阿凡達》來說也是一樣，純阿凡達本身當然利潤很高，但是很難只將軟體賣給 BSS，你需要將其附加到硬體上。這就是為什麼最初我們——例如，在與 ASX 的合作中，整個解決方案將是帶有軟體的 BSS 硬體。

So that definitely makes sense. Should we expect then going forward that the company will be able to layer on something like an ongoing subscription revenue as it's selling these batteries?

這絕對是有道理的。那麼，我們是否應該預期該公司未來在銷售這些電池時能夠獲得類似持續訂閱收入之類的收入？

Yes. That is the plan. And then we have a few discussions with a few battery companies where we actually offer subscription to the models. For example, that map that we show in the shareholder letter, that is a treasure map that actually tells any battery company or any company that needs to develop a battery way to look for in terms of new [indiscernible]. So that map, so we sell that map.

是的。這就是計劃。然後，我們與一些電池公司進行了一些討論，我們實際上為這些模型提供了訂閱服務。例如，我們在致股東信中展示的地圖，實際上是一張藏寶圖，它告訴任何電池公司或任何需要開發電池的公司如何尋找新的[音頻不清晰]。所以那張地圖，所以我們出售那張地圖。

We sell products discover from that map, and we'll also sell this AI model that was used to create a map. That's the annual subscription that you mentioned.

我們出售從該地圖中發現的產品，我們還將出售用於創建地圖的 AI 模型。這就是您提到的年度訂閱。

Jed Dorsheimer, William Blair.

傑德·多斯海默、威廉·布萊爾。

Mark Shooter on for Jed Dorsheimer. I'll echo those sentiments, congratulations again on the quarter and the revenue outlook. The business is fundamentally different with multiple different revenue streams. So in that guide to the revenue, can you give a rough breakdown of where do you think that's coming from?

馬克舒特 (Mark Shooter) 取代傑德多斯海默 (Jed Dorsheimer)。我會回應這些情緒，再次恭喜本季和收入前景。該業務具有根本的不同，有多種不同的收入來源。那麼，在收入指南中，您能否粗略地說明收入來自哪裡？

Yes. So this year, just roughly high level, and we mentioned in the letter, we expect bulk of this year to come from BSS and then the rest to come from a combination of EV and drones and robotics, just this year. Now next year and then going forward, that could change.

是的。因此，今年的水平大致較高，我們在信中提到，我們預計今年的大部分收入將來自 BSS，其餘收入將來自 EV、無人機和機器人技術的結合，就在今年。現在，明年以及以後，情況可能會改變。

Got it. Okay. And then that BESS, the application you're using -- you're doing -- you're providing the full stack. Did I hear that correctly, with contracted contract manufacturing to the cells plus the PAC integration and the BMS?

知道了。好的。然後，您正在使用的 BESS 應用程式 — — 您正在做的 — — 您正在提供完整的堆疊。我是否理解正確，透過合約製造電池以及 PAC 整合和 BMS？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. And is that a difficult market to break into?

好的。這個市場很難進入嗎？

Good question. It depends on the market. It's a very fragmented market. And I think you have behind the meter and also in front of the meter and then some parts of the market are obviously pretty dominated by the big players and some parts are more fragmented. But at the core in terms of the types of cells they use are actually quite common.

好問題。這取決於市場。這是一個非常分散的市場。我認為，在電錶後面和電錶前面都有，然後市場的某些部分顯然被大公司所主導，而有些部分則更加分散。但從本質上講，他們使用的細胞類型實際上相當常見。

And you see about 4 to 5 different types of cells being used across all these different parts of the market.

你會看到，在市場的各個不同領域，大約有 4 到 5 種不同類型的電池在使用。

And then so we break into the more fragmented ones and the medium-sized. But by doing that, we get access to all the data. And then these data -- so the manufacturing data, the formation data, these data we use to pretrain the Avatar, and then we use the live second data from this to also train the Avatar to monitor health. And the nice thing is these data come from the same cells that are used by the larger players. The ones we break into the medium size and then gather data train this Avatar.

然後我們將其分為較為分散的和中等規模的。但透過這樣做，我們就可以存取所有資料。然後這些數據——製造數據、形成數據，我們用這些數據來預先訓練 Avatar，然後我們使用這些數據的即時第二數據來訓練 Avatar 來監測健康狀況。令人高興的是，這些數據與大型企業使用的來自同一單元。我們將它們分成中等大小，然後收集資料來訓練這個化身。

This Avatar can be used as a demo that we used to show the larger players.

這個頭像可以作為我們向更多玩家展示的演示。

Got it. That's very helpful. And last 1 for me regarding the drone applications. Where are your contract manufacturers? And are any of your drone customers supply chain sensitive regarding the region?

知道了。這非常有幫助。對我來說最後一個是關於無人機應用的。你們的合約製造商在哪裡？您的無人機客戶的供應鏈中是否有人對該地區敏感？

Yes. So now they are mainly in Asia. And yes, the drone customers are sensitive and they would like us to move to a more US-based manufacturing. And then we have plans to do that. And then we have a phase where we go through this Asia-based country manufacturing first and then source to a U.S.

是的。所以現在他們主要在亞洲。是的，無人機客戶很敏感，他們希望我們轉向更美國化的製造。然後我們計劃這麼做。然後我們進入一個階段，先透過這個亞洲國家進行製造，然後再採購到美國。

list.

列表。

Kyle Pilkington.

凱爾·皮爾金頓。

As with past quarters, we solicited questions from investors prior to the call. We received a number of submissions, and we'll go through a selection of those submissions now. The first question is the performance limit today of cells with high silicon anodes is the stability of the electrolyte. With SES' new electrolytes and the new advanced silicon anodes, what is the expected specific energy density cycling durability and charge rates for 2170 cells made with these materials? What is the likelihood of these cells would be preferred for EV applications?

與過去幾個季度一樣，我們在電話會議之前徵求了投資者的問題。我們收到了許多投稿，現在我們將從中挑選一些進行審查。第一個問題是，目前高矽陽極電池的性能極限是電解質的穩定性。採用 SES 的新型電解質和新型先進矽陽極，用這些材料製成的 2170 電池的預期比能量密度循環耐久性和充電率是多少？這些電池成為電動車應用的首選的可能性有多大？

Yes, the high-silicon and lithium ion, you have actually quite similar to lithium metal. And then in fact, the higher the silicon, the more it behaves like lithium metal from the perspective of this electrolyte anode interface. And so high-silicon currently suffer from swelling and also gassing challenges, and that lead to short cycle life.

是的，高矽和鋰離子，實際上與鋰金屬非常相似。事實上，從電解質陽極界面的角度來看，矽含量越高，其行為就越像鋰金屬。因此，高矽目前面臨膨脹和氣化問題，導致循環壽命縮短。

And with this new electrolyte, we can significantly enhance the cycle life and then how much improvement in cycle really depends on the amount of silicon that's used. And if we go to 100% silicon, we actually -- it's actually improved the cycle life. We actually expect to more than double the cycle life. So the improvement is that are higher as we increase the amount of silicon.

有了這種新型電解質，我們可以顯著提高循環壽命，而循環壽命的提高程度實際上取決於矽的用量。如果我們採用 100% 矽，我們實際上——它實際上改善了循環壽命。實際上，我們預計循環壽命將增加一倍以上。因此，隨著矽含量的增加，改進效果會更高。

Great. The next question we have is, can competitors copy the new solvent to your AI discovered? Is it patentable or just trade secrets?

偉大的。我們的下一個問題是，競爭對手能否將新溶劑複製到您的 AI 中？它是否可以獲得專利或只是商業機密？

That's what they can. And in this industry, especially if you have something that works really well, people will copy. And so the only way to compete is the speed, and we try to focus more on the speed of innovation and not just the innovation itself. For example, that map that we showed in the shareholder letter, that's a very good example. And others, so we're not just finding a new electrolyte and then this new electrolyte or this new, yes, if it works well, it will get a copy and just how it works in the industry.

這就是他們能做到的。在這個行業中，特別是如果你有某種非常好的產品，人們就會模仿。因此，競爭的唯一方法就是速度，我們試圖更專注於創新的速度，而不僅僅是創新本身。例如，我們在股東信中所展示的那張地圖就是一個很好的例子。還有其他的，所以我們不只是找到一種新的電解質，然後這種新的電解質或這種新的，是的，如果它運作良好，它將得到一個複製，以及它在行業中是如何運作的。

And meantime, you have a new material. If it works well, it gets copied. And if it doesn't work well, then they won't copy it. But in no case, we're not just selling a new solvent. So each start on the map is a sovereign.

同時，你還有新的材料。如果效果好，就會被複製。如果效果不好，他們就不會複製它。但無論如何，我們銷售的不僅僅是一種新溶劑。因此，地圖上的每個起點都是主權國家。

We're selling the map and this map, no 1 will pass that and the tool to create this map to find this map. No 1 else has that. So we have the ability to know where these new solvents are for different applications. And this ability for now, no 1 can copy that.

我們正在出售地圖和這張地圖，沒有人會透過它和創建這張地圖的工具來找到這張地圖。沒有人有那樣。因此我們有能力了解這些新溶劑在不同應用中的作用。而這種能力目前為止還沒有人能夠複製。

Thank you. Going down the list, next question, as AI technology evolves, how is SES improving its AI models to enhance battery performance, safety and manufacturing efficiency?

謝謝。繼續往下看，下一個問題是，隨著人工智慧技術的發展，SES 如何改善其人工智慧模型以提高電池效能、安全性和製造效率？

So the cost of AI has come down a lot, and this has allowed us to train these models, both large language models and foundation models with more data and the visibility and we're asking more data and both actual data from actual battery recycling and also a lot of synthetic data. They see data that denied just before, especially for the molecule properties. And the more data we have and the more data we use to train these models, it gets more sophisticated. So -- and also the cost and efficiencies have improved a lot. So it's now possible to actually run training on these massive database in a much more cost-effective way than before.

因此，人工智慧的成本大幅下降，這使我們能夠用更多的數據和可見性來訓練這些模型，包括大型語言模型和基礎模型，我們需要更多的數據，包括來自實際電池回收的實際數據和大量的合成數據。他們看到了先前被否定的數據，尤其是分子特性的數據。我們擁有的資料越多，我們用來訓練這些模型的資料越多，它就會變得更加複雜。因此——成本和效率也得到了很大的改善。因此，現在可以以比以前更具成本效益的方式在這些海量資料庫上進行訓練。

We'll do 1 more from the pre-submitted questions. EVs are the #1 market for 2170 cells. If SES has a better one, what is the prognosis for selling these into automotive? It seems the high silicon version might be an earlier candidate than lithium metal cells.

我們將根據預先提交的問題再做 1 題。電動車是 2170 電池的最大市場。如果 SES 有更好的產品，那麼將其銷售到汽車領域的前景如何？看起來高矽版本可能比鋰金屬電池更早成為候選人。

So the high silicon and lithium metal are sort of parallel tracks. And previously, we focused just on lithium metal. And then now we are actually improving the cycle life of high silicon. So we're doing both. And then very have been working with 3 OEMs quite closely.

因此高矽和鋰金屬是平行的軌道。以前，我們只關注鋰金屬。現在我們實際上正在提高高矽的循環壽命。所以我們兩者都在做。並且一直與 3 家 OEM 保持密切合作。

And I think a few quarters earlier, you mentioned that there were OEMs that use 2170 cylindrical cells that we do not address because we only make pouch. So now our lithium metal, we use that to address OEMs that use pouch. And then our 2170 cylindrical silicon, we use to address OEMs that we do not address before because we didn't have the form factor. So -- and also same thing for robotics, a lot of OEMs that make EVs also make robotics. And this 2170 really allows us to address a really big market that we did not address before.

我記得幾個季度前，您提到過有些 OEM 使用 2170 圓柱形電池，但我們沒有涉及，因為我們只生產袋裝電池。因此，現在我們利用鋰金屬來解決使用小袋的 OEM 問題。然後，我們用 2170 圓柱形矽來解決以前無法解決的 OEM 問題，因為我們沒有這種外形尺寸。所以——對機器人來說也是一樣，許多生產電動車的原始設備製造商也生產機器人。2170 確實使我們能夠進入一個從未進入過的大市場。

Excellent. Thank you. With that, I'll turn it back over to the moderator for a conclusion of the call.

出色的。謝謝。說完這些，我將把電話會議交還給主持人，結束本次通話。

That will conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and enjoy the rest of your day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，祝您今天過得愉快。