SAP SE (SAP) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen.

女士們，先生們。

And thank you for joining the SAP Q4 2024 earnings conference call.

感謝您參加 SAP 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

Throughout today's recorded presentation, all participants will be in a listen-only mode.

在今天的錄製演示中，所有參與者都將處於僅聽模式。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Alexandra Steiger, Global Head of Investor Relations.

我現在想將會議交給投資者關係全球主管 Alexandra Steiger。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome.

大家早安，歡迎光臨。

Thank you for joining us.

感謝您加入我們。

With me today are CEO, Christian Klein; and CFO, Dominik Asam.

今天和我在一起的有執行長 Christian Klein；財務長多米尼克·阿薩姆。

On this call, we will discuss SAP's fourth quarter and full year results for 2024.

在本次電話會議上，我們將討論 SAP 2024 年第四季和全年業績。

You can find the deck supplementing this call as well as our quarterly statement on our Investor Relations website.

您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到補充本次電話會議的資料以及我們的季度聲明。

During this call, we will make forward-looking statements, which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events.

在本次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，即對未來事件的預測、預測或其他陳述。

These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to differ materially.

這些陳述是基於目前的預期和假設，這些預期和假設存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果和成果有重大差異。

Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our filings with the SEC, including, but not limited to, the risk factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F for 2023.

有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊可以在我們向 SEC 提交的文件中找到，包括但不限於我們 2023 年 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分。

Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS year on year at constant currencies.

除非另有說明，本次電話會議上的所有數據均為非國際財務報告準則，且成長率與百分點變動均為固定匯率計算的非國際財務報告準則較去年同期變動。

The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS.

我們提供的非國際財務報告準則財務指標不應被視為替代或優於根據國際財務報告準則編製的財務績效指標。

Christian, now over to you.

克里斯蒂安，現在交給你了。

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you, Alexandra.

謝謝你，亞歷珊卓。

And thanks to everyone for joining our earnings call.

感謝大家參加我們的財報電話會議。

EUR63 billion.

630億歐元。

That is SAP's total cloud backlog at the end of 2024, up 40% over the previous year, hitting a new record high.

那是SAP截至2024年底的雲積壓總量，比上年成長40%，創下歷史新高。

Total cloud backlog is just one figure, but it illustrates how far we have come as a company.

雲積壓總量只是一個數字，但它說明了我們作為一家公司已經走了多遠。

Four years ago, SAP shares took a hit when we announced our plan to transform the company.

四年前，當我們宣佈公司轉型計畫時，SAP 股價遭受重創。

The markets had some serious doubt if we could pull it off.

市場對我們能否實現這一目標有嚴重懷疑。

But we did it.

但我們做到了。

And we delivered on all of our strategic promises.

我們兌現了所有的戰略承諾。

We more than doubled cloud revenue since 2020 and raised it to half of SAP's total revenue today.

自 2020 年以來，我們的雲端收入增加了一倍多，並達到 SAP 目前總收入的一半。

No major competitor is growing as fast as SAP.

沒有哪個主要競爭對手的成長速度能與 SAP 一樣快。

And with a total cloud backlog of EUR63 billion and an 83 recurring revenue share, we are on a more resilient growth path than ever.

憑藉 630 億歐元的雲積壓總額和 83 的經常性收入份額，我們正走在比以往更具彈性的成長道路上。

SAP has enormous potential and a bright future.

SAP擁有巨大的潛力和光明的未來。

Over the last several years, we have developed a very compelling business suite offering in the cloud to run our customers' most mission-critical business processes end to end.

在過去的幾年裡，我們在雲端開發了非常引人注目的業務套件產品，以端到端地運行客戶最關鍵的任務業務流程。

We also have access to business data that no other tech company has.

我們還可以存取其他科技公司無法獲得的業務數據。

And with regard to AI, yesterday's tech news provided another strong validation of our strategy.

關於人工智慧，昨天的科技新聞再次有力地驗證了我們的策略。

Thanks to our ecosystem approach on the GenAI Hub, we are flexible when it comes to AI infrastructure and large language modules.

由於 GenAI Hub 上的生態系統方法，我們在人工智慧基礎設施和大型語言模組方面非常靈活。

We benefit from cost reductions and progress in the LLM space.

我們受益於成本的降低和法學碩士領域的進步。

Because we are truly differentiating an element in AI today.

因為我們今天正在真正區分人工智慧中的一個元素。

However, it is deep process and industry know-how, combined with access to unique context-rich business data.

然而，它是深厚的流程和行業專業知識，再加上對獨特的上下文豐富的業務數據的存取。

So value creation is more and more moving up the application layer and to building one semantical data layer.

因此，價值創造越來越向應用層上升，並建構一個語意資料層。

This is exactly what SAP has been focusing on.

這正是 SAP 一直在關注的重點。

We have been embedding SAP business AI deeply in the business process of our customers.

我們一直在將 SAP 業務 AI 深深嵌入到客戶的業務流程中。

The result is that C-suite executives see us as the leading AI company in Europe and among the top five globally.

結果是，高階主管將我們視為歐洲領先的人工智慧公司，並躋身全球前五名。

Accurate business data and an understanding of its semantics, those are key ingredients to generate major value and to expand our competitive edge.

準確的業務數據和對其語義的理解，這些是產生主要價值和擴大我們的競爭優勢的關鍵要素。

I will touch on that and an exciting innovation in the data space in just a minute.

我將在一分鐘內談到這一點以及數據領域令人興奮的創新。

The financial results for 2024 are another proof point of the successful journey we started.

2024 年的財務表現是我們開​​啟成功旅程的另一個證明。

We had the courage to change our business module and four years later, we are winning in the cloud and in AI, big time.

我們有勇氣改變我們的業務模組，四年後，我們在雲端和人工智慧領域取得了巨大的勝利。

Becoming the number one enterprise application and business AI company is a huge achievement by team SAP.

成為排名第一的企業應用和商業人工智慧公司是 SAP 團隊的巨大成就。

It took a lot of effort, dedication, and openness for change to get there.

為了實現這一目標，需要付出大量的努力、奉獻和開放的態度。

A big thank you to our over 100,000 colleagues worldwide.

非常感謝我們全球超過 10 萬名同事。

Before we take a closer look at SAP's future, let's review how we ended 2024.

在我們仔細審視 SAP 的未來之前，讓我們先回顧一下 2024 年是如何結束的。

Q4 was a very strong finish for the year.

第四季是今年非常強勁的收尾。

Without going into all the details, let me mention three points.

在不討論所有細節的情況下，讓我提三點。

Cloud revenue expanded 27% and drove double-digit total revenue growth for the third quarter in a row.

雲端營收成長 27%，連續第三季推動總營收達到兩位數成長。

Current cloud backlog once again increased 29% on top of an already larger base.

目前的雲積壓數量在已經較大的基礎上再次增加了 29%。

And the most exciting thing about half of our cloud order entry in Q4 were deals that included AI use cases.

第四季我們一半的雲端訂單輸入中最令人興奮的事情是包含人工智慧用例的交易。

This shows how successful we are in rolling out business AI innovations to our customers.

這顯示我們在向客戶推出商業人工智慧創新方面取得了多麼成功。

As for the full year 2024, we achieved all our cloud goals despite macro headwinds and the ongoing transformation inside SAP.

至於 2024 年全年，儘管面臨宏觀阻力和 SAP 內部正在進行的轉型，我們還是實現了所有雲端目標。

This wasn't easy, but we did it.

這並不容易，但我們做到了。

And we are very proud of that.

我們對此感到非常自豪。

The customer stories that capped off the year give you a good idea of where SAP is heading.

今年結束的客戶故事讓您很好地了解 SAP 的發展方向。

In Q4, more of the world's leading companies decided to embark on their Wise journeys.

第四季度，更多的全球領先企業決定踏上明智之旅。

The energy companies BP and Total Energies are two great examples.

能源公司 BP 和 Total Energies 就是兩個很好的例子。

BP chose Wise as the digital backbone for the transformation into an integrated energy company, helping to accelerate digitization, enhance performance, and reduce costs.

BP 選擇 Wise 作為轉型為綜合能源公司的數位骨幹，幫助加速數位化、提高績效並降低成本。

Easy access to technological innovation was another important factor in BP's decision.

輕鬆取得技術創新是 BP 做出決定的另一個重要因素。

And Total Energies has been partnering with SAP for over 30 years.

Total Energies 與 SAP 的合作已超過 30 年。

Wise will be a starting point for the company's transformation towards new business models, and it will help to drive efficiency.

Wise將成為公司轉型為新商業模式的起點，有助於提高效率。

And from there, we will take our partnership to the next areas.

從那時起，我們將把我們的合作關係拓展到下一個領域。

BASF, the world's largest chemical company is also banking on Wise.

全球最大的化學公司巴斯夫也信賴 Wise。

Together, we will drive both the simplification and standardization, and we will enable BASF to take advantage of AI-powered automation and innovation.

我們將共同推動簡化和標準化，並使巴斯夫能夠利用人工智慧驅動的自動化和創新。

I could go on and on.

我還可以繼續說下去。

So many more global leaders chose Wise in Q4; including Red Bull; EY; the European truck store chain, DM; and the automotive suppliers, Robert Bosch and Schaeffler.

第四季度，越來越多的全球領導者選擇了 Wise；包括紅牛；安永；歐洲卡車連鎖店 DM；以及汽車供應商羅伯特·博世和舍弗勒。

With regard to GROW.

關於成長。

We've once again celebrated major wins in the IT industry.

我們再次慶祝 IT 產業的重大勝利。

Databricks, a rapidly growing data and AI company with over 10,000 customers has selected GROW to modernize its financial systems and support its growth.

Databricks 是一家快速發展的數據和人工智慧公司，擁有超過 10,000 名客戶，它選擇 GROW 來實現其財務系統現代化並支援其發展。

Databricks will now have a solution that can scale fast in over 60 countries, support new revenue modules, and provides the company with instant access to business AI.

Databricks 現在將擁有一個可在 60 多個國家/地區快速擴展的解決方案，支援新的收入模組，並為公司提供對業務人工智慧的即時存取。

And Outreach, a SaaS company focusing on sales solutions, signed up for GROW in Q4 as well.

專注於銷售解決方案的 SaaS 公司 Outreach 也在第四季度簽約了 GROW。

Let me say this very clearly.

讓我說得非常清楚。

SAP adds hundreds of net new cloud SME customers every quarter, we go on to celebrate go-lives in months, not in years.

SAP 每季都會新增數百個雲端中小企業客戶，我們會在幾個月而不是幾年內慶祝上線。

End users are delighted about the product experience of the suite and the new innovations coming in every quarter.

最終用戶對該套件的產品體驗以及每季推出的新創新感到高興。

This is the new SAP.

這是新的 SAP。

Next to these customer wins, we also saw some major go lives.

除了這些客戶的勝利之外，我們還看到了一些重要的上線。

Let me name some big words.

讓我說出一些大字。

IBM went live with SuccessFactors for its over 275,000 employees in over 80 countries.

IBM 為其遍佈 80 多個國家的 275,000 多名員工啟用了 SuccessFactors。

It was one of the largest and most complex deployments of SuccessFactors in the history and delivered completely on time.

這是歷史上最大、最複雜的 SuccessFactors 部署之一，並且完全準時交付。

And IBM also went live with SAP Fieldglass and SAP Ariba in NS2 for its federal business as the first customer to use both solutions in the NS2 cloud.

IBM 也在 NS2 中為其聯邦業務啟用了 SAP Fieldglass 和 SAP Ariba，成為第一個在 NS2 雲端中使用這兩種解決方案的客戶。

We also had major wide Go-Lives in the automotive sector, those were General Motors and the Germany-based automotive supplier, MAHLE International.

我們還在汽車行業進行了廣泛的廣泛上線，其中包括通用汽車和德國汽車供應商馬勒國際。

All the examples I gave make it very clear.

我給的所有例子都非常清楚。

More and more customers appreciate the comprehensive and integrated character of SAP's cloud suite.

越來越多的客戶欣賞 SAP 雲端套件的全面和整合特性。

They start with finance, BDP, and our business transformation portfolio.

他們從金融、BDP 和我們的業務轉型組合開始。

And from there, they expand to our full suite to all our line of business solutions following our Wise or GROW journeys.

從那裡開始，他們在我們的“明智”或“成長”之旅之後擴展到我們所有業務解決方案的全套套件。

For our customers, it is so easy to adopt more and more of our solutions.

對於我們的客戶來說，採用越來越多的我們的解決方案是非常容易的。

The number of customers with over four SAP solutions more than doubled since 2021.

自 2021 年以來，擁有四種以上 SAP 解決方案的客戶數量增加了一倍以上。

Over 1/5 of our customers are now part of that group.

現在我們超過 1/5 的客戶屬於該群體。

Land and expand is clearly working.

土地和擴張顯然正在發揮作用。

So we had a really great one.

所以我們度過了一段非常棒的時光。

2024 was another very good year for the company.

2024 年對公司來說又是非常好的一年。

But we are not stopping here.

但我們不會就此止步。

We are raising the bar for the years to come.

我們正在提高未來幾年的標準。

We expect accelerated double-digit total revenue growth and an expansion of operating profit through 2027.

我們預計到 2027 年總收入將加速兩位數成長，營業利潤將擴大。

We can say this with confidence

我們可以充滿信心地說

(technical difficulty).

（技術難度）。

Overall, we bought over 130 Gen AI use cases to our customers in 2024, over delivering on our plans.

總體而言，我們在 2024 年向客戶購買了超過 130 個 Gen AI 用例，超出了我們的計劃。

And we integrated 1,300 skills in total making it capable of automating 80% of the most used activities of our end users.

我們總共整合了 1,300 項技能，使其能夠自動執行最終用戶 80% 最常用的活動。

More than 30,000 customers now use SAP Business AI.

現在有超過 30,000 名客戶使用 SAP Business AI。

Among them, many great brands such as Campari, Henkel, MercadoLibre, BT Group, and Standard Chartered Bank, and other big names.

其中不乏金巴利（Campari）、漢高（Henkel）、MercadoLibre、BT集團、渣打銀行等大品牌。

For example; ABB; Bayer; and the Swiss retailer, Migros, signed deals for SAP Business AI in Q4.

例如; ABB；拜耳；瑞士零售商 Migros 在第四季度簽署了 SAP Business AI 協議。

All this is a very good start, but we are once again doubling down on AI in 2025.

這一切都是一個非常好的開始，但我們將在 2025 年再次加倍投入人工智慧。

We will significantly increase our AI investments with all of our more than 30,000 developers working to enhance our AI foundation and building new use cases.

我們將大幅增加人工智慧投資，讓超過 30,000 名開發人員致力於增強我們的人工智慧基礎並建立新的用例。

One key ambition is to make every Joule user, 30% more efficient by the end of 2025.

我們的一個關鍵目標是到 2025 年底讓每個 Joule 用戶的效率提高 30%。

In addition, I can't wait to launch a game-changing innovation very soon that will give us a great boost in the data and AI space.

此外，我迫不及待地想很快推出一項改變遊戲規則的創新，這將為我們在數據和人工智慧領域帶來巨大的推動。

Today, companies spend up to 50% of their IT budget on data and analytics.

如今，該公司將高達 50% 的 IT 預算用於數據和分析。

And despite all of that investment, so many companies fall short of realizing the potential of their data.

儘管進行了所有這些投資，許多公司仍未能意識到其數據的潛力。

Too often data stays locked in silos or stuck in so-called data swarms without business context.

資料常常被鎖定在孤島或陷入所謂的資料群中，而沒有業務上下文。

Companies have no complete view of their business that way and without access to high-quality data, AI agents stay far below their potential as well.

公司無法以這種方式全面了解其業務，也無法獲得高品質數據，人工智慧代理也遠低於其潛力。

According to the principal, garbage in, garbage out.

根據校長的說法，垃圾進來，垃圾出去。

We will address these challenges in the data and AI space, with one of the biggest innovations SAP has ever delivered.

我們將透過 SAP 有史以來最大的創新之一來應對數據和人工智慧領域的這些挑戰。

We will harmonize structure and unstructured data, SAP and non-SAP data, always with the relevant semantics.

我們將始終使用相關語意來協調結構化和非結構化資料、SAP 和非 SAP 資料。

And by that, we will make AI agents much more powerful.

到那時，我們將使人工智慧代理變得更加強大。

Joule will become the super orchestrator of these agents, carrying out complete tasks autonomously and end-to-end, taking over significant workload from humans.

Joule 將成為這些代理人的超級協調者，自主地、端到端地執行完整的任務，接管人類的大量工作量。

At our Business Unleashed event on February 13, we will talk more about this innovation.

在 2 月 13 日舉辦的 Business Unleashed 活動中，我們將更深入討論這項創新。

It would be our pleasure if you joined the webcast.

如果您加入網路廣播，我們將非常高興。

Let's now move to the second piece, commercial innovation.

現在讓我們進入第二部分，商業創新。

First, we will make it even simpler for Wise and GROW customers to land and adopt our latest innovation.

首先，我們將使 Wise 和 GROW 客戶更輕鬆地登陸並採用我們的最新創新。

We will introduce licensing options that allow customers to upgrade and switch easily to our newest cloud solutions across the whole SAP business suite, all without additional negotiations.

我們將推出授權選項，使客戶能夠在整個 SAP 業務套件中輕鬆升級並切換到我們最新的雲端解決方案，而無需進行額外的談判。

Second, for customers that have landed with SAP, we will enhance strategic migration incentives to expand across our SAP business suite.

其次，對於已經使用 SAP 的客戶，我們將加強策略遷移激勵措施，以擴展我們的 SAP 業務套件。

The broader customers go, the more they benefit.

客戶覆蓋率越廣，受益就越多。

Third, we will evolve our Wise with SAP offering.

第三，我們將發展 Wise with SAP 產品。

Our whole business transformation toolkit will be part of the Wise offering going forward, including LeanIX, Signavio, and WalkMe.

我們的整個業務轉型工具包將成為未來 Wise 產品的一部分，包括 LeanIX、Signavio 和 WalkMe。

In addition, we will leverage Joule for Consultant and Joule for Developer for our customers' transitions to cut migration costs.

此外，我們將利用 Joule for Consultant 和 Joule for Developer 進行客戶的過渡，以降低遷移成本。

Supported by the enterprise architects, we will accelerate time to value and allow customers to benefit from our full business suite even faster.

在企業架構師的支持下，我們將加快實現價值的速度，讓客戶更快地從我們完整的業務套件中受益。

And now to the third piece, simplification.

現在到第三部分，簡化。

We are very diligent and committed to making SAP simpler, leaner, and more efficient.

我們非常勤奮，致力於讓 SAP 變得更簡單、更精簡、更有效率。

By rolling out AI internally, we enable our business to scale quickly while keeping costs in check to give some details.

透過在內部推出人工智慧，我們使我們的業務能夠快速擴展，同時控製成本以提供一些細節。

In development, over 20,000 SAP developers use AI-powered tools, including Joule for Developer already today.

在開發過程中，超過 20,000 名 SAP 開發人員使用人工智慧驅動的工具，包括目前已經推出的 Joule for Developer。

We are seeing average efficiency gains above 20%.

我們看到平均效率提高了 20% 以上。

On the go-to-market side, AI-assisted contract validation has reduced our average contract booking time by 75%.

在進入市場方面，人工智慧輔助的合約驗證將我們的平均合約預訂時間縮短了 75%。

And in the corporate functions, we have seen a 20-fold productivity gain through AI-assisted quote-to-cash process automation.

在公司職能部門，透過人工智慧輔助的報價到現金流程自動化，我們的生產力提高了 20 倍。

Overall, we expect the one-way efficiency effect of our existing AI implementations of roughly EUR300 million already this year.

總體而言，我們預計今年現有人工智慧實施的單向效率效應已達到約 3 億歐元。

And for the very near future, we expect

在不久的將來，我們預計

(technical difficulty).

（技術難度）。

In parallel, our transformation towards a better, more resilient, more simple SAP continues.

同時，我們持續向更好、更有彈性、更簡單的 SAP 轉型。

In 2024, we started to merge our seven go-to-market regions into four.

2024 年，我們開始將七個上市區域合併為四個。

We have also consolidated our operations teams, reduced shadow functions and streamline the delivery of solutions to customers.

我們也整合了營運團隊，減少了影子職能，並簡化了向客戶提供解決方案的流程。

And we are putting the right people in place.

我們正在安排合適的人選。

This morning, we were happy to announce two Chief Revenue Officers co-leading our go-to-market execution and transformation reporting directly to me.

今天早上，我們很高興地宣布兩位首席營收長共同領導我們的上市執行和轉型，直接向我報告。

Jan Gilg, as Chief Revenue Officer, Americas and Global Business Suite; and Manos Raptopoulos as Chief Revenue Officer, APAC, EMEA, and MEE.

Jan Gilg，擔任美洲和全球業務套件首席營收長； Manos Raptopoulos 擔任亞太地區、歐洲、中東和非洲地區首席營收長。

They will be supported by

他們將得到以下支持

[Stefan de Basler].

[斯特凡·德巴斯勒]。

Stephane joins us from '09, where he was Chief Revenue Officer.

Stephane 從 09 年加入我們，擔任首席營收長。

He will serve as business suite leader and ensure the success of our suite motion across regions.

他將擔任商務套房領導者，並確保我們跨地區的套房行動成功。

This combination from in-depth product knowledge to world-class sales experience will allow us to further improve our go-to-market while staying focused on our commercial success.

深入的產品知識與世界一流的銷售經驗的結合將使我們能夠進一步改善我們的市場進入，同時專注於我們的商業成功。

On the R&D side, we are extending the mandate of our Chief AI Officer, Philip Herzig, to also have our cross-company innovation efforts as new global CTO, continuing to drive AI innovation for SAP's customers and partners.

在研發方面，我們正在擴大首席人工智慧長 Philip Herzig 的職責範圍，讓其作為新的全球 CTO 開展跨公司創新工作，繼續為 SAP 的客戶和合作夥伴推動人工智慧創新。

Also this morning, we announced that the Supervisory Board has appointed Sebastian Steinhaeuser as an Executive Board member, effective February 1, 2025, in the role of Chief Operating Officer.

同樣在今天早上，我們宣布監事會已任命 Sebastian Steinhaeuser 為執行董事會成員，自 2025 年 2 月 1 日起生效，擔任營運長。

Sebastian oversees the execution of our strategy as well as the simplification of our internal operations.

塞巴斯蒂安負責監督我們策略的執行以及內部營運的簡化。

In addition, the Supervisory Board extended the Executive Board contract of Thomas Saueressig for three additional years until 2028.

此外，監事會將 Thomas Saueressig 的執行董事會合約再延長三年，直至 2028 年。

I'm very much looking forward to working with this strong and extended team.

我非常期待與這個強大而廣泛的團隊合作。

Let me now summarize.

現在讓我總結一下。

Our success over the last four years speak a clear language.

我們過去四年的成功說明了清晰的語言。

We are capable turning ambition into reality, and we intend to continue that way.

我們有能力將雄心壯志變為現實，並且我們打算繼續這樣做。

We are curious about the future and set the bar higher because being the best is never done.

我們對未來充滿好奇，並設定了更高的標準，因為成為最好的人永無止境。

With this drive and energy, we are continuing our profitable growth journey in 2025 and beyond.

憑藉這種動力和活力，我們將在 2025 年及以後繼續我們的獲利成長之旅。

That is our aspiration.

這是我們的願望。

This is our promise to you.

這是我們對您的承諾。

And with that, I'm handing over to Dominik.

接下來，我將把工作交給多明尼克。

Thank you very much, Christian, and thank you all for joining us this morning.

非常感謝您，克里斯蒂安，也感謝大家今天早上加入我們。

I would also like to wish everyone good health, peace, and success in 2025.

我也祝福大家2025年身體健康、平安、成功。

SAP's strong finish to 2024 once again demonstrates great resilience in a year that presented new challenges and opportunities.

SAP 在 2024 年的強勁表現再次證明了這一年充滿新挑戰和機會的強大韌性。

We not only delivered on our financial commitments for the year but also build strong momentum that positions us firmly on track to achieve our stated financial goals for 2025 and beyond.

我們不僅兌現了今年的財務承諾，而且還形成了強勁的勢頭，使我們堅定地走上實現 2025 年及以後既定財務目標的軌道。

2024 was a year of transformation, highlighted by both top and bottom line growth, as well as exceptional free cash flow strength.

2024 年是轉型的一年，營收和利潤均實現成長，自由現金流強勁。

Our success in cloud revenue and robust non-IFRS operating profit throughout the year reflect the effectiveness of our strategic growth initiatives and our relentless focus on operational efficiency.

我們全年在雲端收入和強勁的非國際財務報告準則營業利潤方面的成功反映了我們策略性成長計畫的有效性以及我們對營運效率的不懈關注。

Customers worldwide continue to choose RISE with SAP as their solution of choice for the end-to-end business transformations in large-scale enterprises, while small- and medium-sized companies rely on GROW with SAP to drive their growth and innovation.

全球客戶持續選擇 RISE with SAP 作為大型企業端到端業務轉型的首選解決方案，而中小型企業則依靠 GROW with SAP 來推動其成長和創新。

This is reflected in strong order intake and large cloud transactions with a volume greater than EUR5 million, contributing 63% to our cloud order entry for the full year and an impressive 68% in Q4.

這反映在訂單量強勁以及交易量超過 500 萬歐元的大型雲端交易上，佔全年雲端訂單輸入的 63%，第四季更是達到了令人印象深刻的 68%。

Now let me provide more detail around our financial highlights.

現在讓我提供有關我們財務亮點的更多詳細資訊。

Current backlog reached EUR18.1 billion, up 29%.

目前積壓訂單達 181 億歐元，成長 29%。

Total cloud backlog for the year grew at 40% to EUR63.3 billion.

今年的雲積壓總額成長了 40%，達到 633 億歐元。

Cloud revenue grew 26% year on year, supported by cloud revenue growth of 27% in Q4, and primarily driven again by the strong performance of cloud ERP suite.

雲端營收年增 26%，受到第四季度雲端收入成長 27% 的支撐，並主要受到雲端 ERP 套件強勁表現的再次推動。

It actually had an impressive year demonstrating its role as SAP's core driver of growth with an increase of 34% in 2024, up from 33% in the prior year.

實際上，這一年的表現令人印象深刻，證明了其作為 SAP 成長核心驅動力的作用，到 2024 年成長率為 34%，高於上一年的 33%。

Cloud ERP suite reached 84% of total cloud revenue in Q4, underscoring its growing contribution to our success.

第四季度，雲端 ERP 套件佔雲端總收入的 84%，突顯了它對我們的成功做出的日益增長的貢獻。

Software Licenses revenue decreased by 21%.

軟體授權收入下降 21%。

Finally, total revenue for the full year exceeded EUR34 billion, up 10%.

最終，全年總收入超過 340 億歐元，成長 10%。

This performance was mainly driven by strong growth in cloud revenue and resilience of our support business, reflecting the ongoing progress of our strategic pivot towards cloud-based solutions.

這項業績主要得益於雲端收入的強勁成長和我們支援業務的彈性，反映了我們向基於雲端的解決方案的策略支點的持續進展。

Now let's take a brief look at our regional performance for the full year, Germany, Spain, China, India, and Japan all had outstanding performances in cloud revenue, while Brazil, Canada, and Saudi Arabia were particularly strong.

現在我們簡單來看看我們全年的區域表現，德國、西班牙、中國、印度和日本在雲端收入方面都有出色的表現，而巴西、加拿大和沙烏地阿拉伯的表現尤其強勁。

Moving down the income statement.

將損益表向下移動。

Our non-IFRS cloud gross margin for the full year continued its upward trend from last year and expanded by 1.4 percentage points to 73.3%, driving cloud gross profit up by 28%.

全年非國際財務報告準則雲毛利率延續去年的上升趨勢，擴大1.4個百分點至73.3%，帶動雲毛利率延續28%。

In the first quarter, non-IFRS operating profit was up 24%.

第一季度，非 IFRS 營業利潤成長 24%。

Operating profit growth in Q4 was mainly driven by the strong performance in SAP's software licenses and support business as well as disciplined execution of the 2024 transformation program.

第四季營業利潤的成長主要得益於 SAP 軟體授權和支援業務的強勁表現以及 2024 年轉型計劃的嚴格執行。

For the fiscal year, we delivered outstanding operating profit growth of 26% year over year, reaching EUR8.2 billion.

本財年，我們的營業利潤年增 26%，達到 82 億歐元。

The IFRS -- sorry, IFRS effective tax rate for the full year was 34% and the non-IFRS tax rate was 32%, in line with what has been previously guided.

IFRS－抱歉，IFRS 全年有效稅率為 34%，非 IFRS 稅率為 32%，與先前的指引一致。

Free cash flow for the full year was down 19% to EUR4.1 billion, exceeding the revised outlook range of EUR3.5 billion to EUR4 billion, which both provided in the prior quarter.

全年自由現金流下降 19% 至 41 億歐元，超過上一季修正後的 35 億歐元至 40 億歐元的展望範圍。

Recall that on top of payouts for restructuring of EUR2.5 billion, we also absorbed EUR0.2 billion of cash out for compliance-related settlement matters and fully discontinued SAP triggered financing weighing with another couple of hundred million euros on free cash flow.

回想一下，除了支付25 億歐元的重組支出外，我們還吸收了2 億歐元的現金用於合規相關的和解事宜，並完全停止SAP 引發的融資，這給自由現金流帶來了另外幾億歐元的壓力。

On the other hand, we received a couple of hundred million euros from customers for receivables due in 2025 before the turn of the year, which, in combination with strong profitability enabled us to slightly exceed even the upper end of the previously guided range of EUR3.5 billion to EUR4 billion.

另一方面，我們在年初之前從客戶處收到了 2025 年到期的數億歐元應收帳款，再加上強勁的盈利能力，使我們能夠略微超過先前指導範圍 3 歐元的上限。 40億歐元。

Non-IFRS basic earnings per share in fiscal year '24 increased by 22% to EUR4.53.

'24 財年非 IFRS 基本每股收益成長 22% 至 4.53 歐元。

Now let's move on to our outlook.

現在讓我們繼續展望。

You've likely seen in the quarterly statement published earlier today, we have provided this year's outlook.

您可能已經在今天早些時候發布的季度聲明中看到，我們提供了今年的展望。

Four years ago, SAP outlined both long-term goals to guide our transition towards cloud-based solutions.

四年前，SAP 概述了這兩個長期目標，以引導我們向基於雲端的解決方案過渡。

Today, we are proud that this year's outlook solidly aligns with the ambitions we set in 2020, demonstrating the progress we've made in executing our strategy.

今天，我們感到自豪的是，今年的前景與我們在 2020 年設定的目標完全一致，顯示了我們在執行策略方面的進展。

Before I move on, I want to provide an update on our compensation metrics and foreign exchange hedging strategy that we will adopt going forward.

在繼續之前，我想介紹一下我們未來將採用的薪酬指標和外匯對沖策略的最新情況。

As of 2025, we will enhance our compensation framework by incorporating free cash flow as a metric alongside non-IFRS operating profit.

截至 2025 年，我們將透過將自由現金流與非 IFRS 營業利潤納入衡量標準來增強我們的薪酬框架。

This will ensure heightened attention towards working capital and other drivers of free cash flow.

這將確保人們更加關注營運資本和自由現金流的其他驅動因素。

Additionally, to reduce foreign exchange-related impact on free cash flow, we have further developed our hedging strategy, in particular for the US dollar.

此外，為了減少外匯相關對自由現金流的影響，我們進一步製定了對沖策略，特別是美元的對沖策略。

As a reminder, we currently provide all income statement KPIs that are relevant for compensation purposes on a constant currency basis, free cash flow, however, has been, and will continue to be provided on a nominal currency basis as unlike the compensation relevant income state KPIs, it does include the results from foreign exchange hedging.

提醒一下，我們目前以固定貨幣為基礎提供與薪酬目的相關的所有損益表 KPI，但是，自由現金流已經並將繼續以名義貨幣為基礎提供，這與薪酬相關的收入狀態不同KPI，它確實包括外匯對沖的結果。

We continue implementing a hedging strategy with a lead time of up to a year to mitigate the risk from US dollar euro exchange rate fluctuations, by aligning hedging instruments with forecasted cash flows and maintaining a one to one hedge ratio where possible, we aim to reduce the volatility and minimize the impact of exchange rate fluctuations on our free cash flow.

我們繼續實施長達一年的對沖策略，以降低美元歐元匯率波動的風險，透過將對沖工具與預測現金流量相結合，並在可能的情況下維持一對一的對沖比率，我們的目標是減少波動性並最大限度地減少匯率波動對我們自由現金流的影響。

This approach is largely completed by now and reflected in the free cash flow outlook we have provided today.

這種方法目前已基本完成，並反映在我們今天提供的自由現金流前景中。

So while the average exchange rate for 2024, and as a result, constant currency exchange rate for 2025, underlying our outlook for income statement KPIs is 108 (technical difficulty) was 104, the forward rate of our hedge portfolio for free cash flow for 2025 sits logically in between at around 106.

因此，雖然 2024 年的平均匯率以及 2025 年的恆定貨幣匯率（我們對損益表 KPI 的展望為 108（技術難度））為 104，但我們對沖投資組合 2025 年自由現金流的遠期匯率為 104上介於106 左右。

Now let's quickly discuss our nonfinancial KPIs.

現在讓我們快速討論一下我們的非財務 KPI。

In 2024, we continue to see strong uptake for SAP Sustainability Solutions portfolio with a robust growth of approximately 70% for our sustainability innovations.

到 2024 年，我們將繼續看到 SAP 永續發展解決方案組合的強勁採用，我們的永續發展創新將強勁成長約 70%。

Q4 was very successful, particularly in our MEE and EMEA regions, including a key win with KNAPP, an Austrian logistics automation company purchasing SAP's sustainable control tower, SAP sustainable footprint management, and SAP sustainability data exchange for sustainability disclosure and carbon accounting, including supply chain engagement.

第四季非常成功，特別是在我們的MEE 和EMEA 地區，其中包括與奧地利物流自動化公司KNAPP 的重大勝利，該公司購買了SAP 的可持續控制塔、SAP 可持續足跡管理以及用於可持續性揭露和碳核算（包括供應）的SAP 永續性資料交換鏈嚙合。

Companies like KNAPP are turning to SAP to be the foundation of their sustainability reporting.

KNAPP 等公司正轉向 SAP 作為其永續發展報告的基礎。

Regulations, customer need for supply chain transparency and the ongoing convergence of sustainability and financial standards continue to drive and play to our strength globally demonstrating sustainability as a core business

法規、客戶對供應鏈透明度的需求以及永續發展和財務標準的不斷融合繼續推動和發揮我們在全球的優勢，證明永續發展是一項核心業務

(technical difficulty).

（技術難度）。

SAP Green Ledger together with our sustainability portfolio capabilities, which provide data collection, calculation, and auditability, the SAP Green Ledger allows customers to sync emissions data with financial data, for strategic and contextualized business decisions that are both financially and environmentally sound.

SAP Green Ledger 與我們提供資料收集、運算和可審計性的永續發展產品組合功能相結合，使客戶能夠將排放資料與財務資料同步，以製定既經濟又環保的策略和情境化業務決策。

This also helps companies fulfill regulatory requirements.

這也有助於公司滿足監管要求。

Now in summary, we delivered on our key objectives for 2024, achieving strong top and bottom line results while demonstrating resilience in a dynamic environment.

總而言之，我們實現了 2024 年的主要目標，實現了強勁的營收和利潤，同時在動態環境中展現了韌性。

Customers continue to choose our solutions to help transform their businesses into more intelligent, sustainable enterprises as reflected in our cloud performance across all regions of the world.

客戶繼續選擇我們的解決方案來幫助他們的企業轉型為更智慧、永續的企業，這反映在我們在世界各地的雲端效能上。

With our foundation now firmly established in 2025, we must remain vigilant in our execution to sustain growth and set the stage for long-term success for years to come.

隨著我們在 2025 年奠定了堅實的基礎，我們必須在執行中保持警惕，以維持成長，並為未來幾年的長期成功奠定基礎。

This progress would not have been possible without the dedication and hard work of our people, both those who remain with us and those who have moved on.

如果沒有我們的人民（包括那些留在我們身邊的人和那些離開我們的人）的奉獻和辛勤工作，這項進步是不可能實現的。

We deeply appreciate their contributions to helping SAP navigate their transformational journey in this year.

我們非常感謝他們為幫助 SAP 在今年的轉型之旅中所做的貢獻。

We remain optimistic about the opportunities ahead, confident that our commitment to innovation and disciplined operating strategy will continue to drive positive results.

我們對未來的機會保持樂觀，相信我們對創新的承諾和嚴格的營運策略將繼續帶來正面的成果。

Thank you, and we will now be happy to take your questions.

謝謝您，我們現在很樂意回答您的問題。

Thank you, Dominik.

謝謝你，多米尼克。

And with that, we will now take your questions.

現在我們將回答你們的問題。

I would like to kindly remind you to only ask one question when prompted.

我想提醒您在出現提示時只問一個問題。

Operator, please open the line.

接線員，請開通線路。

(Operator Instructions) Adam Wood, Morgan Stanley.

（操作說明）Adam Wood，摩根士丹利。

Hi, good morning and congratulations on the excellent end to the year.

你好，早安，恭喜你今年取得了優異的成績。

Maybe if I could ask just a little bit around CCB and the kind of stage of the upgrade cycle to S4 in the base.

也許我可以問一下 CCB 以及基礎中 S4 升級週期的階段。

Just in that context, we've obviously got very strong CCB growth at the end of '24 with that acceleration, TCB accelerating, but you're talking about a little bit of a slight deceleration on CCB for '25.

正是在這種背景下，我們顯然在 24 年底獲得了非常強勁的 CCB 成長，TCB 也在加速，但你談論的是 25 年 CCB 略有減速。

Can you just help us understand how much of that is just the fact that you can't keep accelerating that number of ever bigger numbers in that context, give us a little bit of a feel for where you think the installed base is in terms of the upgrade to S4, how much of their is there still to do?

您能否幫助我們了解其中有多少是因為您無法在這種情況下繼續加速越來越大的數字，讓我們稍微了解一下您認為安裝基礎的情況升級到S4，他們還有多少工作要做？

Basically, are we hitting the peak of that upgrade in the near future, do you think there's actually a lot more to go for as you look out over the next few years?

基本上，我們是否會在不久的將來達到升級的頂峰，您認為在未來幾年中，實際上還有更多的事情要做嗎？

Adam, and I can start and look at CCB Indeed, we had a record Q4 exceeding all our expectations.

亞當，我可以開始看看建行確實，我們第四季度的創紀錄超出了我們的所有預期。

Now for next year to give you a few installed base, we are roughly 40% of our customers are on the move with Wise to our business suite in the cloud. 40%, that doesn't mean even that all of their landscapes are already in the cloud.

現在，明年給您一些安裝基礎，我們大約 40% 的客戶正在透過 Wise 遷移到我們的雲端業務套件。 40%，這並不意味著他們的所有景觀都已經在雲端。

So that contracts include a significant ramp towards the later year.

因此，合約包括到下半年的大幅成長。

So that gives us even the 40% who are underway will also give us further acceleration in the years to come.

因此，即使是正在進行中的 40% 也將使我們在未來幾年進一步加速。

And then also, when you look at quo, I mean, we are actually adding hundreds of net new names, as I mentioned, and also our win rates in the public cloud.

然後，當你看看現狀時，我的意思是，正如我所提到的，我們實際上增加了數百個網路新名稱，以及我們在公有雲中的勝率。

When you look at the different LOBs and the win rates against the best of data is going up, because clearly, now the customer is seeing, hey, it's really about land expand and running my core business processes integrated end-to-end and of course, then with AI out of the box.

當您查看不同的 LOB 時，針對最佳數據的勝率正在上升，因為顯然，現在客戶看到，嘿，這實際上是關於土地擴展和運行我的端到端集成的核心業務流程，當然，還有開箱即用的人工智慧。

So yes, the base is getting bigger indeed.

所以，是的，基礎確實在變大。

But when you look at the absolute growth, it's also further accelerating.

但當你觀察絕對成長時，你會發現它還在邁出一步加速。

I mean we are putting a ton of new business on top.

我的意思是我們正在把大量的新業務放在首位。

And also, let's not forget, Adam, at a certain point, it's also now important to drive adoption.

另外，亞當，我們不要忘記，在某種程度上，推動採用也很重要。

Our retention rates are getting better and better and so I feel the outlook is actually really ambitious.

我們的保留率越來越好，所以我覺得前景實際上非常雄心勃勃。

Also given, honestly, the macro environment and you see in the cloud revenue, there is no slowdown.

老實說，考慮到宏觀環境和您在雲端收入中看到的情況，並沒有放緩。

This is actually an acceleration.

這實際上是一種加速。

And so the two things coming together, higher retention, higher adoption, further acceleration of the customers who are already on the move to the cloud, higher win rates in the different line of businesses.

因此，這兩件事結合在一起，更高的保留率、更高的採用率、進一步加速已經遷移到雲端的客戶、不同業務線更高的獲勝率。

So Adam, absolutely, we are very confident for the year ahead.

所以亞當，絕對，我們對未來的一年非常有信心。

And honestly, also for the year, beyond the installed base, look at the maintenance revenue number still gives us a lot of potential to move customers to the cloud.

老實說，今年除了安裝基礎之外，維護收入數字仍然為我們帶來了很大的潛力，可以將客戶轉移到雲端。

And then, again, also not only upselling these customers, but also cross-selling, as I mentioned.

然後，正如我所提到的，不僅要向上銷售這些客戶，還要進行交叉銷售。

Let me add one point there.

讓我補充一點。

If you look in the sell-side estimates, we see that there is still a little bit of a kind of doubt in terms of our revenue acceleration thesis through '27.

如果你看一下賣方的估計，我們會發現我們對 27 年收入加速論點仍然存在一些疑問。

And what I encourage you to do is to kind of back solve how much CCP can actually decelerate before you would kind of not see that acceleration in consolidated revenue.

我鼓勵你做的是，在你看不到合併收入加速之前，先解決 CCP 實際上可以減速多少。

So the mix factor I'd say, at the sweet spot, of the revenue mix play, giving us a boost on total revenues.

因此，我想說的是，在收入組合的最佳點上，混合因素可以提高我們的總收入。

And so this kind of slight deceleration we have guided here is actually probably much better than what has embarked in some of the models we see on the sell side these days.

因此，我們在這裡引導的這種輕微減速實際上可能比我們現在在賣方看到的一些模型中開始的要好得多。

Yeah.

是的。

And maybe one piece to add I mentioned two large energy companies, but we also signed up for many, many automotives.

也許要補充一點的是，我提到了兩家大型能源公司，但我們也簽署了很多很多汽車公司的協議。

It's a given they are not in a good position right now, given all the concerns which are existing in this industry.

考慮到這個行業存在的所有問題，他們目前的處境並不好。

But still, they're shifting maybe now the first part or maybe one-third of the landscape to the cloud, but then really focusing and that is the value add, they are not only lifting and shifting to a cloud infrastructure. we are intensively working now on process simplification.

但儘管如此，他們現在可能正在將第一部分或三分之一的環境轉移到雲端中，但隨後真正集中精力，這就是增值，他們不僅僅是提升並轉移到雲端基礎設施。我們現在正在加緊努力簡化流程。

They need to run new business modules.

他們需要運行新的業務模組。

And then give them a year or two and then they will actually sign another contract.

然後給他們一兩年的時間，然後他們就會真正簽另一份合約。

So Adam, it's also a phasing.

所以亞當，這也是一個階段性的。

And we want to be reasonable in our outlook, how we also reflect this phasing of these Wise deals because customers need time.

我們希望合理地看待我們的前景，以及我們如何反映這些明智交易的階段性，因為客戶需要時間。

I mean changing business modules, it's not only a technological move, it's about change management.

我的意思是改變業務模組，這不僅僅是一個技術舉措，它是關於變革管理的。

It's sometimes I have seen this four years ago, also breaking the walls, there is some change resistance, but cloud software need simplification.

有時我四年前就看到過這種情況，也打破了牆壁，存在一些變革阻力，但雲端軟體需要簡化。

We move to a new technological architecture with BGP.

我們透過 BGP 轉向新的技術架構。

So let's also give the customer some time, but there is enough potential also in the installed base left.

因此，我們也給客戶一些時間，但剩餘的安裝基礎也有足夠的潛力。

Jackson Ader, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Jackson Ader，KeyBanc 資本市場。

Great.

偉大的。

Thanks for taking our questions, guys.

謝謝你們回答我們的問題，夥伴們。

Our question is around migrations in 2025.

我們的問題是關於 2025 年的移民問題。

So if we expect some of the CCB have slowed down a little bit and cloud revenue growth to accelerate overall revenue growth to accelerate.

因此，如果我們預期CCB的部分營收成長會放緩一點，而雲端收入成長會加速，那麼整體營收成長就會加速。

I'm curious what should be the expectation for support revenue in 2025 as you continue to drive more of those migrations in the coming year and how that flows into cloud revenue as well?

我很好奇，隨著您在來年繼續推動更多遷移，2025 年支援收入的預期應該是多少，以及這些收入如何轉化為雲端收入？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah, it's a very good question, and it gives me the opportunity also to comment on what looks to be a slightly odd Q4 with actually an increase in maintenance.

是的，這是一個非常好的問題，它讓我有機會評論看起來有點奇怪的第四季度，實際上維護工作有所增加。

This is certainly not a trend.

這當然不是一種趨勢。

It is simply related to the fact that actually we caught up on some revenues we carved out previously because to a financial distress of a larger customer that had a financial restructuring, and then we could reembark these revenues while in the Q4 of the prior year, there were actually some compliance-related costs on maintenance revenues, and that made the whole thing flip.

這只是與以下事實有關：實際上，我們趕上了之前由於進行財務重組的大客戶的財務困境而獲得的一些收入，然後我們可以在上一年的第四季度重新獲得這些收入，實際上，維護收入中有一些與合規相關的成本，這使得整個事情發生了逆轉。

If you depolluted for that, you see a very steady slight decline.

如果你為此去污染，你會看到非常穩定的小幅下降。

And as previously guided, no change to that, we will kind of see a gradual decline.

正如之前的指導，如果不改變這一點，我們將看到逐漸下降。

Obviously, the slightly higher-than-anticipated license revenues indicate that also maintenance revenues have a little bit of a longer life.

顯然，略高於預期的許可收入表明維護收入的壽命也更長一些。

So -- but overall, we would not deviate from that hypothesis of a slight acceleration over the coming years in maintenance revenues, but don't expect to complete collapse.

因此，但總體而言，我們不會偏離未來幾年維護收入略有加速的假設，但預計不會完全崩潰。

And again, the good news is we have a gradual rollover from that maintenance space into cloud revenues.

同樣，好消息是我們正在逐步從維護空間轉向雲端收入。

And maybe just to build on that.

也許只是為了以此為基礎。

Sometimes, the world when geopolitical tensions increase, customers already see again, even more value coming also back to SAP for SAP support.

有時，當地緣政治緊張局勢加劇時，客戶已經再次看到，更多的價值也回到了 SAP 以獲得 SAP 支援。

I mean, given legal and regulation support in over 130 countries is a real asset.

我的意思是，考慮到 130 多個國家的法律和法規支援是一項真正的資產。

I mean the same is also what we see now in the cloud is customers want to expand their business, they need localization.

我的意思是，我們現在在雲端中看到的情況也是如此，客戶想要擴展他們的業務，他們需要在地化。

So it's a real asset.

所以它是一項真正的資產。

So that while you also see this very high retention rate on support revenue.

因此，您還可以看到支持收入的保留率非常高。

And also with the move now that we allow our customers to move to the cloud, and while they have 100 ERPs from SAP and they need time to consolidate, we offer them now to replace some third-party assets in the stack and to really allow them to continue their transformation while not getting hit by the end of maintenance, which will stay in place, of course, That, of course, is even more come back to SAP and allow and see really to create value of SAP support.

而且現在我們允許我們的客戶遷移到雲端，雖然他們擁有 SAP 的 100 個 ERP，並且需要時間進行整合，但我們現在為他們提供替換堆疊中的一些第三方資產，並真正允許他們繼續轉型，同時不會受到維護結束的影響，這當然會留在原地，當然，更多的是回到SAP 並允許並看到SAP 支援真正創造價值。

Johannes Schaller, Deutsche Bank.

約翰內斯·夏勒，德意志銀行。

Yeah, thanks.

是的，謝謝。

Good morning.

早安.

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您提出我的問題。

Christian, I think you probably just touched on this topic in your last remark.

克里斯蒂安，我想你在上一次發言中可能剛剛談到了這個話題。

But there's obviously a bit of press coverage around potentially extended maintenance.

但顯然有一些媒體報道可能會延長維護時間。

I think some people suggesting 2033 is the new 2030, which is clearly not case.

我認為有些人認為 2033 年是新的 2030 年，這顯然不是事實。

But can you maybe help us a little bit more with some detailed understanding, what's the reasoning behind this SAP private edition option?

但是您能否幫助我們更詳細地了解這個 SAP 私人版本選項背後的原因是什麼？

And what is generally going on in the installed base?

安裝基礎上一般發生了什麼事？

I mean, is this really what some of your large legacy customers needed to get kind of over the line and then sign some of these deals?

我的意思是，這真的是您的一些大型傳統客戶所需要的，然後才能簽署其中一些交易嗎？

Or is it really that you're maybe not seeing the kind of momentum with some customers that you were hoping.

或者您確實沒有看到某些客戶所希望的那種勢頭。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

Happy to answer that question, Johannes.

很高興回答這個問題，約翰內斯。

And look, I mean, as I mentioned, some of our customers have over 100 ERPs.

我的意思是，正如我所提到的，我們的一些客戶擁有 100 多個 ERP。

I mean they are one in factories, manufacturing and logistics with that.

我的意思是他們是工廠、製造和物流領域的一員。

And now the end of maintenance by 2027 will not be changed.

現在2027年維護結束不會改變。

We will stick to that.

我們將堅持這一點。

But you also have to consider, in some parts of the stack, there are third-party components included.

但您還必須考慮，在堆疊的某些部分中，包含第三方元件。

And they are running out of maintenance as well.

而且他們的維護也即將結束。

So we don't want to leave the customers behind.

所以我們不想把客戶拋在後面。

And as we moved all of our cloud solutions already on HANA cloud, we do now the same with these on-premise customers.

當我們將所有雲端解決方案遷移到 HANA 雲端時，我們現在對這些本地客戶也採取同樣的做法。

We move them to the cloud.

我們將它們移至雲端。

We replace the third-party components.

我們更換第三方組件。

And with that, we can also one in the cloud.

這樣，我們也可以在雲端操作。

Now there are 100 ERPs in a complete sustainable and supportive way.

現在有 100 個 ERP 以完全可持續和支援的方式進行。

And that is about this offering.

這就是關於這個產品的。

It's actually for a very few large customers who will not make any -- the time because, again, to transform and consolidate ERP and business processes in over 100 countries is sometimes not that easy.

實際上，對於極少數不會做出任何貢獻的大客戶來說，這個時間是因為，在 100 多個國家/地區改造和整合 ERP 和業務流程有時並不那麼容易。

And that is what this offering is about.

這就是本次產品的意義。

So it's not about the extension of on-premise maintenance.

因此，這與延長本地維護無關。

And clearly, we see the acceleration in the cloud, but it's really reaching out with a helping hand to a very few large customers who need this offering to fully transform and migrate to the cloud.

顯然，我們看到了雲端運算的加速發展，但它實際上是向極少數需要此產品完全轉型並遷移到雲端的大客戶伸出了援助之手。

This is what this offering is about.

這就是本次產品的目的。

Mohammed Moawalla, Goldman Sachs.

穆罕默德·莫阿瓦拉，高盛。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Morning, Dominik.

早上好，多明尼克。

Morning, Christian.

早安，克里斯蒂安。

Dominik, I wonder if you could just clarify the thought process around some of the moving parts on the FY25 outlook.

多明尼克，我想知道您能否澄清一下 2025 財年展望中一些動態部分的思考過程。

You obviously raised your EBIT guidance, but I know there was a definition change on the free cash flow I know the tax rate has also gone up a little bit, and there's more restructuring.

顯然，您提高了息稅前利潤指引，但我知道自由現金流的定義發生了變化，我知道稅率也有所上升，並且有更多的重組。

Has anything else changed just to kind of bridge the gap in terms of assumptions around working capital and what are the plans in terms of the impact you expect on that over the next couple of years?

是否有其他改變只是為了彌合營運資本假設的差距，以及您預計未來幾年對此產生的影響有何計劃？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

I mean working capital is always extremely hard to predict around the turn of the year.

我的意思是，在歲末年初，營運資金總是很難預測。

You might receive some payments you didn't expect or take the massive performance we had in Q4 on new bookings.

您可能會收到一些意想不到的付款，或接受我們在第四季度新預訂方面的巨大表現。

You recall that we're also offering transformation credits to customers to incentivize them and to help them with the transformation period, which is actually creating some upfront cash out relatively to the phasing of the profits in these customers.

您還記得，我們​​還向客戶提供轉型積分，以激勵他們並幫助他們度過轉型期，這實際上是相對於這些客戶的利潤分階段創造了一些預付現金。

And all that taken together has resulted in the outlook we have given.

所有這些綜合起來就形成了我們所給予的前景。

You've seen that we have kind of pulled in some cash in 2024.

您已經看到，我們在 2024 年獲得了一些現金。

So we were ahead of plan in 2024, and that, obviously, like money you received early, you won't receive any more in '25.

因此，我們在 2024 年提前了計劃，顯然，就像您提前收到的錢一樣，您在 25 年不會再收到更多。

On the other hand, we also operationally made good progress.

另一方面，我們在營運上也取得了良好的進展。

I think it's interesting to look into our cash flow statement.

我認為研究我們的現金流量表很有趣。

It's page 14 of the quarterly statement.

這是季度報表的第 14 頁。

And you see some promising signs, for instance, trade receivables increased under proportionately, so the cash out is lower than in the prior year despite the fact that we had the normalization of these vendor financing things, so that should actually increase accounts receivable.

你會看到一些有希望的跡象，例如，貿易應收帳款按比例增加，因此現金支出低於上一年，儘管我們已經使這些供應商融資業務正常化，所以實際上應該增加應收帳款。

You see that we are quite disciplined.

你看我們還是很有紀律的。

And another extremely important topic for cash conversion is actually stock-based compensation.

現金轉換的另一個極其重要的主題實際上是基於股票的薪酬。

And it was a little bit strange in 2024 because we had this huge increase in the share price, and we still had quite some cash settled units, which are partially also paid out in 2025 still.

2024 年的情況有點奇怪，因為我們的股價大幅上漲，而且我們仍然有相當多的現金結算單位，其中部分資金仍會在 2025 年支付。

And what I can tell you on that front is, again, you look at the cash flow statement and you see share-based compensation in the P&L was EUR2.4 billion, which frankly is higher than what we thought because of the strong share price increase.

在這方面我可以告訴你的是，你再看一下現金流量表，你會發現損益表中的股票薪酬為 24 億歐元，坦白說，這比我們想像的要高，因為股價強勁增加。

You recall that for 2020, we actually said it should be more about EUR2 billion -- sorry, for 2025, it should be more about EUR2 billion when we adjusted for inclusion of stock-based compensation. [One] was at a couple of quarters ago -- a year ago, almost, and we had EUR2.2 billion in '23.

您還記得，對於 2020 年，我們實際上說過應該更多關於 20 億歐元 - 抱歉，對於 2025 年，當我們調整包含股票薪酬時，應該更多關於 20 億歐元。 [其中]是在幾個季度前——幾乎一年前，我們在 23 年擁有 22 億歐元。

We said it will transition to EUR2 billion, now it's EUR2.4 billion because of the huge increase in share price.

我們說會過渡到20億歐元，現在是24億歐元，因為股價大幅上漲。

But we continue to believe that the P&L impact of stock-based compensation will go down once we have this effect reduced from share price moves.

但我們仍相信，一旦股價波動的影響減弱，股票薪酬對損益的影響就會下降。

And then the cash out is much smaller, of course.

當然，現金支出要少得多。

So you see EUR1.3 billion in the statement.

所以你在報表中看到 13 億歐元。

Both in 2023 and 2024, there was a EUR1.1 billion positive from version of stock-based comp, which is simply the equity settled part.

2023 年和 2024 年，股票補償版本產生了 11 億歐元的正值，這只是股權結算部分。

And that is a number I can tell you will be quite similar next year.

我可以告訴你，這個數字明年將會非常相似。

So as you strongly reduce stock-based compensation, that reduction will then if the delta is the same hit very much the cash flow.

因此，當你大幅減少以股票為基礎的薪酬時，如果增量相同，這種減少將極大地影響現金流。

So all these things need to be taken into account are embarked here.

所以所有這些需要考慮的事情都在這裡開始。

And yeah, it's -- I agree it's not straightforward, but I encourage you to look at cash conversion and look at basically, the depolluted free cash flow, if we add that restructuring, we add back the compliance charges, we add back the factoring.

是的，我同意這並不簡單，但我鼓勵你看看現金轉換，看看基本上，去污染的自由現金流，如果我們加上重組，我們加回合規費用，我們加回保理。

These are the three factors I would always kind of depollute to come with an underlying cash conversion number.

我總是會排除這三個因素，以得出基本的現金轉換數字。

And then on stock-based compensation, I gave you the hints how this will evolve, and we can also go in more details offline about that.

然後，關於基於股票的薪酬，我給了你們這將如何演變的提示，我們也可以在線下詳細了解這一點。

And that number is a very high number, honestly.

老實說，這個數字是一個非常高的數字。

If you think about EBIT tax affected, you will see that we're actually currently running better.

如果您考慮息稅前利潤受影響的情況，您會發現我們目前實際上運作得更好。

And that is also because of the catch-up we have on some of the working capital items.

這也是因為我們在一些營運資金項目上的追趕。

And we will need to continue to grind on that to really keep that extremely good cash conversion that we had in both '24 and is actually also applied for '25.

我們需要繼續努力，以真正保持我們在 24 年以及實際上也適用於 25 年的極其良好的現金轉換。

Sven Merkt, Barclays.

斯文·默克特，巴克萊銀行。

Great.

偉大的。

Good morning.

早安.

Thank you for taking the question and congratulations on the strong quarter.

感謝您提出問題並祝賀本季的強勁表現。

If you look back to 2024 on (inaudible), you added about EUR3.5 billion.

如果您回顧 2024 年（聽不清楚），您會增加約 35 億歐元。

Can you go to just a rough indication how this breaks down into maintenance conversion up and cross-selling as well as net new sales and maybe how you see this evolve into 2025?

您能否粗略地說明一下這如何分解為維護轉換、交叉銷售以及淨新銷售額，以及您如何看待這種情況到 2025 年的發展？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

Let me share bit more insights about how, of course, we close cloud order entry and then how this translates into CCB.

當然，讓我分享更多關於我們如何關閉雲端訂單輸入以及如何將其轉換為 CCB 的見解。

And when you look at Q4, of course, by far, our biggest quarter, I have to say really a record quarter, 60% roughly from the cloud order entry comes from IBASE customers moving to the cloud, then you get another 30% from net new and roughly 10% about upselling into the existing installed base.

當你看第四季度時，當然，到目前為止，我們最大的季度，我不得不說確實是一個創紀錄的季度，大約60% 來自雲端訂單輸入來自遷移到雲端的IBASE 客戶，然後你還可以從雲端訂單輸入獲得另外30%淨新和大約 10% 的追加銷售到現有安裝基礎。

So you see the mix in my eyes is actually really healthy.

所以你看我眼中的混合其實非常健康。

And for me, next to the strong move of the installed base, which still, as I mentioned before, has a lot of potential for the years to come.

對我來說，除了安裝基礎的強勁成長之外，正如我之前提到的，未來幾年仍然有很大的潛力。

For me, even more important is, of course, the net new, because that is what is really then adding completely incremental business on top, which then also gives us to create performance on total revenue.

對我來說，當然，更重要的是淨新，因為這才是真正在上面添加完全增量業務的東西，這也使我們能夠在總收入上創造業績。

Now on maintenance conversions, I mean, we always have these multiples that developed in Q4 also extremely well.

現在，在維護轉換方面，我的意思是，我們總是擁有在第四季度發展得非常好的這些倍數。

Actually, we have a multiple of slightly around about 3x, which is very strong, given also, and you can see that in our cloud gross margins, I mean, we clearly did our homework there.

實際上，我們的倍數約為 3 倍，這是非常強勁的，而且您可以看到在我們的雲毛利率中，我的意思是，我們顯然在那裡做了功課。

I mean, both for the private cloud and the public cloud business, the expansion of the gross margin is very strong.

我的意思是，無論是私有雲還是公有雲業務，毛利率的擴張都非常強勁。

And I have to say, looking at our plan for the year to add and everything what you see -- what you saw yesterday, the cost reduction on large language modules and other things we are trying to get down the TCO in our cloud operations gives us actually also the potential to further reduce TCO and with that also expand our very healthy cloud gross margin in the years to come.

我不得不說，看看我們今年添加的計劃以及您所看到的一切- 您昨天所看到的，大型語言模組的成本降低以及我們試圖降低雲運營中的總體擁有成本的其他事情都給出實際上，我們還有進一步降低 TCO 的潛力，從而在未來幾年擴大我們非常健康的雲毛利率。

Toby Ogg, JPMorgan.

托比‧奧格，摩根大通。

Yeah, hi morning and thanks for the question.

是的，早安，謝謝你的提問。

Perhaps just on AI, could you give us an update just on how Joule is tracking in terms of adoption whether you're actually seeing any revenue generation yet from the monetization of Joule?

也許只是在人工智慧方面，您能為我們介紹一下 Joule 如何追蹤採用情況的最新情況嗎？

And then just how we should think about the timeline for potential contribution to revenue growth from the monetization of Joule and agents?

那麼我們應該如何考慮 Joule 和代理商的貨幣化對收入成長的潛在貢獻的時間表？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

I can actually share with you a story from yesterday where we had a CFO of a big, large German company here with us in our headquarter and we looked at [a Gen AI with tool], the so-called orchestrator.

事實上，我可以與大家分享昨天的一個故事，我們的總部有一家大型德國公司的首席財務官，我們研究了[帶有工具的Gen AI]，即所謂的協調器。

And we shared what is coming in 2025, and we shared an example to improve cash collection.

我們分享了 2025 年即將發生的事情，並分享了一個改善現金收款的範例。

And what we did is actually we looked into some delayed payments in the life system of the customer.

我們所做的實際上是我們調查了客戶生活系統中的一些延遲付款。

We actually showed him what are the reasons, Joule actually showed what are the reasons for the delay.

我們實際上向他展示了原因是什麼，焦耳實際上向他展示了延遲的原因是什麼。

Is it logistics?

是物流嗎？

Is it a supplier?

是供應商嗎？

Is it actually some issues that are to deliver?

實際上是要交付一些問題嗎？

We are -- or is it and a commercial issue.

我們是——或者說這是一個商業問題。

And then you saw how Joule was reaching out to the different agents on the logistical side, on the procurement side, supply chain on the sales side and was really able to handle to pull in a dispute and really helping to resolve the case fully automated.

然後你看到 Joule 如何聯繫物流方面、採購方面、銷售方面的供應鏈的不同代理，並真正能夠處理糾紛並真正幫助完全自動化地解決案件。

Still, of course, a human being sitting at top say, yes, I want to have to create this disputed that way.

當然，坐在頂層的一個人仍然會說，是的，我希望以這種方式創造這個有爭議的問題。

We should reach out to the customer in that way.

我們應該以這種方式接觸客戶。

We showed a copilot in equation, they're very deep.

我們在方程式中展示了副駕駛，他們非常有深度。

So you can put it in a mail, the mail gets pre-scripted.

所以你可以把它放在郵件中，郵件是預先寫好的。

And then actually, the human being sits there.

事實上，這個人就坐在那裡。

And you can look at it how Joule is orchestrating the whole process, of course, with different options and the wide outcomes, meaning an improved cash flow.

你可以看看 Joule 如何協調整個流程，當然，有不同的選擇和廣泛的結果，這意味著現金流的改善。

And this is -- when I look at that I can only say what we did with Philip with the team to really not focus so much on the large language models.

當我看到這一點時，我只能說我們與 Philip 以及團隊所做的事情實際上並沒有太多關注大型語言模型。

We are partnering, we are super agnostic and given yesterday.

我們正在合作，我們是超級不可知論者，而且是昨天的事。

I mean, this is super good news for us.

我的意思是，這對我們來說是一個超級好消息。

But really focusing on our R&D, our innovation on building the strongest AI foundation for businesses, meaning understanding of business data, contextualized business data, I mean this is -- when I have seen this yesterday for me, this is absolutely the right strategy.

但真正專注於我們的研發，我們的創新為企業建立最強大的人工智慧基礎，這意味著理解業務數據，情境化業務數據，我的意思是，當我昨天看到這一點時，這絕對是正確的策略。

Now talking numbers, I mean, you have seen 50% of the deals in Q4 were driven by AI.

現在談論數字，我的意思是，您已經看到第四季度 50% 的交易是由人工智慧驅動的。

And trust me on one thing, given also my other role in sales, I mean, it was not only one factor.

相信我在一件事上，考慮到我在銷售中的其他角色，我的意思是，這不僅僅是一個因素。

It was in my eyes defect that our value engineers could go in and show the automation, the productivity in various functions of the company, also showing what you can do with Joule as the new UX and so that was really, for us, a key driver of our Q4 order entry.

在我看來，這是一個缺陷，我們的價值工程師可以進去展示公司各個職能部門的自動化和生產力，同時展示你可以用Joule 作為新的用戶體驗來做什麼，所以這對我們來說確實是一個關鍵我們第四季訂單輸入的驅動力。

And yes, given that we actually always started with a consumption-based commercial module, I mean, of course, adoption is key from day one on, also a good decision.

是的，考慮到我們實際上總是從基於消費的商業模組開始，我的意思是，當然，採用從第一天起就是關鍵，也是一個很好的決定。

And now we are seeing how this significant order entry also driven by Joule and business AI is also turning into revenue.

現在我們看到，同樣由 Joule 和商業人工智慧驅動的重要訂單輸入也如何轉化為收入。

We see oftentimes -- let us give us a three months delay between signing and then the go-live of the first AI use cases.

我們經常看到——讓我們在第一個人工智慧用例的簽署和上線之間延遲三個月。

And then the revenue is triggering.

然後收入就會被觸發。

And again, it's already a very healthy in a fast-growing business.

再說一遍，它在快速成長的業務中已經非常健康。

Frederic Boulan, Bank of America.

弗雷德里克·博蘭，美國銀行。

Hey, good morning.

嘿，早安。

Can we spend a moment on the cost side?

我們能花點時間談談成本嗎？

Maybe if you can share a bit your -- how your kind of go-to-market strategy is evolving.

也許您可以分享一下您的上市策略是如何演變的。

And when you look at the main cost levers beyond 2025.

當你觀察 2025 年後的主要成本槓桿。

Any guidance for this year implies a still very disciplined cost growth versus revenue growth, so definitely less in the 80% to 90% you were alluded to before.

今年的任何指導都意味著成本增長相對於收入增長仍然非常嚴格，因此絕對低於您之前提到的 80% 到 90%。

So can you share a little bit the kind of moving parts beyond '25 in terms of go-to-market and overall efficiency of the business?

那麼，您能否分享一下 25 年後在進入市場和業務整體效率方面的變化？

Thank you.

謝謝。

I mean, coming out of the kickoffs beginning of this year, I have to say the transformation of our go-to-market function is in full swing, just to illustrate on where -- what we are working on.

我的意思是，從今年年初開始，我不得不說我們的上市職能轉型正在全面展開，只是為了說明我們正在做什麼。

First, the ecosystem is also now even more excited about growth potential with SAP.

首先，生態系統現在對 SAP 的成長潛力更加興奮。

As we are assigning them now partner-led territories, so they get dedicated territories to quote their business, to invest into SAP.

由於我們現在為他們分配了合作夥伴主導的區域，因此他們可以獲得專門的區域來報價其業務、投資 SAP。

They also very much like the fact that they can sell with SAP, a suite.

他們也非常喜歡可以與 SAP 套件一起銷售。

I mean also the same like we do land and expand.

我的意思是，就像我們土地和擴張一樣。

And so they see a big growth potential and, of course, further investing into SAP.

因此，他們看到了巨大的成長潛力，當然會進一步投資 SAP。

And for us, that gives us scale pure efficiency.

對我們來說，這給了我們規模純粹的效率。

I mean we actually have enormous growth plans for the channel in 2025, given all the changes we are doing.

我的意思是，考慮到我們正在做的所有改變，我們實際上對該頻道在 2025 年制定了巨大的成長計劃。

And then on the direct sales side, I mean, we want to be much more disciplined around the number of calls we are having around the commissions we pay.

然後在直銷方面，我的意思是，我們希望在我們支付的佣金方面更加嚴格地控制我們接到的電話數量。

And so we are rolling this out.

所以我們正在推出這個。

The change management is in full swing.

變革管理正在如火如荼地進行中。

It will also give us even, honestly, some efficiencies beyond 2025.

老實說，它也將在 2025 年後為我們帶來一些效率。

So that is in full swing.

所以一切都在如火如荼地進行中。

And maybe, Dominik, you can comment on the overall cost side.

多米尼克，也許您可以評論一下總體成本方面。

I think the good news is we are derisking the cost base and AI play is also a big role, as Christian has explained.

我認為好消息是我們正在降低成本基礎的風險，而人工智慧也發揮著重要作用，正如克里斯蒂安所解釋的那樣。

And yes, from the guidance you've gotten from us, you can see that we are doing better in the bridge from 2024 to '25, then the 80% to 90% benchmarking logic we have applied.

是的，從您從我們這裡獲得的指導中，您可以看到我們在 2024 年到 25 年的過渡期內做得更好，然後我們應用了 80% 到 90% 的基準測試邏輯。

I think for the years beyond '25, '26, '27, is still a good measurement to say in that ballpark, we should end up.

我認為對於 25 年、26 年、27 年後的幾年來說，在這個範圍內仍然是一個很好的衡量標準，我們應該結束。

And this gives us then by virtue of the acceleration in the top line, we've also indicated a good expansion opportunity for further improving the free cash flow and then also the combination of cash flow margin growth and then the revenue growth boost, of course, what we call the kind of Rule of 40 performance of the company.

憑藉營收的加速，這給我們帶來了良好的擴張機會，可以進一步改善自由現金流，當然，現金流利潤率成長和收入成長也相結合，我們稱之為公司績效的 40 條規則。

Mark Moerdler, Bernstein.

馬克‧莫德勒，伯恩斯坦。

Thank you very much and congratulations on the quarter.

非常感謝並祝賀本季。

Dominik, you've been hyper focused on driving efficiency, improving margins while driving growth in the business.

多明尼克，您一直非常注重提高效率、提高利潤，同時推動業務成長。

With the internal implementations of AI.

隨著人工智慧的內部實現。

Can you discuss exactly how you see that translating?

能具體討論一下您如何看待翻譯嗎？

Is it purely going to drive margins, you talked about -- what could be $0.5 billion of improvement.

您談到，這純粹是為了提高利潤嗎？

Do you see that dropping to the bottom line?

你看到它下降到底線了嗎？

Do you see that as investing?

您認為這是投資嗎？

Do you also see the efficiency you're doing within sales and other parts of it being able to accelerate the revenue growth and revenue growth per salesperson?

您是否也看到您在銷售和其他部分中所做的效率能夠加速收入成長和每位銷售人員的收入成長？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah, of course, these KPIs need to improve going forward.

是的，當然，這些 KPI 未來需要改進。

Otherwise, the ratio of selling expenses to revenues can't improve.

否則，銷售費用與收入的比率就無法提高。

And obviously, as we grow the base -- the incremental bookings we need are growing.

顯然，隨著我們的基礎不斷擴大，我們需要的增量預訂也在增長。

So it's a mathematical necessity that the answer to your question is yes.

所以你的問題的答案是肯定的，這在數學上是必然的。

I would say we are firmly on plan.

我想說我們堅定地按計劃進行。

Our confidence level on these initiatives is significant.

我們對這些舉措充滿信心。

I'd say the organizational changes that Christian has highlighted to consolidate all the operations functions in one cluster under Sebastian Steinhaeuser, was exactly the right move to do to really come to end-to-end process optimization.

我想說的是，Christian 強調的將所有營運職能整合到 Sebastian Steinhaeuser 領導下的一個叢集中的組織變革，正是真正實現端到端流程優化的正確舉措。

And that gives us the confidence because we have the visibility now where building blocks are, where they kind of also impediments like we need to eliminate.

這給了我們信心，因為我們現在可以了解建置模組在哪裡，以及我們需要消除的障礙在哪裡。

But again, I think from a financial modeling point of view, we still want to preserve the capability to also invest in our growth and keep both the growth investment and the efficiency in sync and that 80% to 90% leverage, I'd say, operating leverage in a certain way for '26, '27 is still a good yardstick.

但同樣，我認為從財務模型的角度來看，我們仍然希望保留投資於成長的能力，並保持成長投資和效率同步以及 80% 到 90% 的槓桿率，我想說，一定程度上的經營槓桿對於'26、'27來說仍然是一個很好的衡量標準。

Yeah.

是的。

And I have to say, of course, Dominik is laser focused on efficiency, cash flow conversion, but also the CEO is, of course, focus to make SAP more efficient.

我必須說，當然，多明尼克非常注重效率、現金流轉換，而且執行長當然也專注於讓 SAP 更有效率。

But I have to say, to kudos to Dominik, Gina, Mohammed, and all the others.

但我不得不說，對多明尼克、吉娜、穆罕默德和其他所有人表示敬意。

I mean when you look back one year ago, and we did our headcount planning for the year, I mean all of us now committed because of AI on a completely underproportional headcount growth.

我的意思是，當你回顧一年前，我們制定了今年的員工人數規劃時，我的意思是，由於人工智慧，我們所有人現在都致力於實現完全不成比例的員工成長。

I mean a year ago, the headcount ask in the commercial deal support was up to the roof because we are closing a lot of new business.

我的意思是一年前，商業交易支援的人員數量要求達到了頂峰，因為我們正在關閉許多新業務。

Now we have an AI capability to ask Joule and a lot of the contract checkings, the (inaudible) checks, the compliance check has been taken over by AI and you see this in cloud delivery, you see this in R&D with tool for developer.

現在我們有人工智慧能力來詢問Joule 和大量的合約檢查、（聽不清楚）檢查、合規性檢查已經由人工智慧接管，你可以在雲端交付中看到這一點，你可以在開發人員工具的研發中看到這一點。

And also the Board colleagues, it's not only like pulling out an AI use case and see here are the efficiencies.

還有董事會同事，這不僅僅是拿出一個人工智慧用例來看看效率。

It's about change management.

這是關於變革管理的。

It's also about explaining to people what these technologies can do because it's changing also jobs.

它也向人們解釋這些技術可以做什麼，因為它也在改變工作。

But I have to say, looking also at the plan for this year now, I mean we are growing so much under proportional in many functions of the company also because of AI.

但我不得不說，再看看今年的計劃，我的意思是，由於人工智慧，我們在公司的許多職能方面的成長遠低於比例。

Michael Briest, UBS.

麥可‧布里斯特，瑞銀集團。

Yeah, good morning.

是的，早安。

Just a clarification on the comment around maintenance.

只是對有關維護的評論進行澄清。

Are you not then making this extended maintenance to 2033 open to all customers.

你們不向所有客戶開放這個延長到 2033 年的維護嗎？

It's just a handful of sort of specially selected ones.

這只是少數經過特別挑選的。

And I'm just curious on licenses, not a good quarter, but what is the thinking about potentially taking that option off of the price list and maybe for public sector in a few sectors, it's still relevant, but for the general customer base.

我只是對許可證感到好奇，這不是一個好的季度，但對於可能將該選項從價目表中刪除的想法是什麼，也許對於某些部門的公共部門來說，它仍然相關，但對於一般客戶群來說。

And Dominik, can you quickly just clarify what you mean by deceleration?

多明尼克，你能快速澄清一下減速的意思嗎？

Is this 100 basis points, 200 basis points for CCB?

這是建行的100個基點、200個基點嗎？

Thank you.

謝謝。

I can take the maintenance question.

我可以回答維護問題。

And look, I mean, first, we are legally, of course, we will open up this offering to all of our customers, but who does really need it is really a few large customers who really ask, Christian and team, we have all of these ERPs.

看，我的意思是，首先，我們是合法的，當然，我們將向所有客戶開放此產品，但真正需要它的是一些真正要求的大客戶，克里斯蒂安和團隊，我們擁有所有這些 ERP。

They are already on the move, by the way.

順便說一句，他們已經在行動了。

I mean, many of them, they're just saying, hey, I can't do North America this year, I can do EMEA next year but give us some time also for APJ before you know maintenance is running out and say, okay, let's move to the cloud.

我的意思是，他們中的很多人只是說，嘿，我今年不能做北美，明年我可以做歐洲、中東和非洲，但在你知道維護即將結束之前給我們一些時間來安排亞太及日本地區，然後說，好吧，讓我們遷移到雲端。

We replaced the third-party component in your stack so that you can still run a compliant business and which we -- and that we can support the end-to-end stack.

我們取代了您的堆疊中的第三方元件，以便您仍然可以運行合規的業務，並且我們可以支援端對端堆疊。

This is what this offering is about.

這就是本次產品的目的。

And of course, it's available to all customers.

當然，它可供所有客戶使用。

But while the move is working so well, I mean, very few large customers, which I expect will make use of this offering, which is great because we are showing, we are signaling to them, hey, we're going to take you with us on this journey.

但是，雖然這一舉措運作得很好，但我的意思是，很少有大客戶，我預計他們會使用這個產品，這很好，因為我們正在向他們展示，我們正在向他們發出信號，嘿，我們將帶你與我們一起踏上這段旅程。

We are not leaving someone behind, and you are focused on your transformation, doing the right things for your business while we are making sure that you can still running a compliant and supported landscape also going forward in the cloud.

我們不會讓任何人落後，您專注於轉型，為您的業務做正確的事情，同時我們確保您仍然可以在雲端中運行合規且受支援的環境。

Then on a slight deceleration on CCB, I don't want to give you precise numbers, but what I can say is what I hinted to before.

然後建行略有減速，我不想給你們確切的數字，但我能說的是我之前暗示過的。

And there is this statement we make this kind of ambition we expressed that through 2027, we want to see total revenues accelerate now.

我們有這樣的聲明，我們表達了這樣的雄心壯志：到 2027 年，我們希望看到總收入現在加速成長。

You know how the game from CCB into cloud revenues works and you can make some educated assumptions about maintenance and license revenues going forward and services kind of that low growth rates, you've seen a very low growth rate this year.

您知道從 CCB 到雲端收入的遊戲是如何運作的，您可以對未來的維護和授權收入以及服務的低成長率做出一些有根據的假設，今年您已經看到了非常低的成長率。

And then can back solve how much deceleration can we actually afford to come to kind of a steady growth rate of round about what we guided, I think, is about 11% in the midpoint we guided for '25.

然後可以回過頭來解決我們實際上能夠承受多大的減速，以達到我們指導的穩定增長率，我認為，大約是我們 25 年指導的中點的 11% 左右。

And of course, the deceleration lies somewhere in between because on the one hand, it will be slower than what we have today.

當然，減速介於兩者之間，因為一方面，它會比我們今天的速度慢。

And also, don't forget there is still a little bit of a positive impact from the first-time inclusion of WalkMe in the '29 numbers.

而且，不要忘記，WalkMe 首次納入 29 年數字仍然帶來了一些正面影響。

So that's a more technical aspect of that.

這是一個更技術性的方面。

So that one you can intellectually take out because as soon as we have the kind of comparables of the prior year, including WalkMe, it's gone, and then there is a slight deceleration, which is kind of in between that kind of deceleration you would need to see to not see revenues on group revenues accelerate by more than 11%.

所以你可以理智地把它拿出來，因為一旦我們有了前一年的可比產品，包括 WalkMe，它就消失了，然後有一個輕微的減速，這介於你需要的那種減速之間預計集團收入增速不會超過11%。

And where we sit as of the end of the year.

以及截至今年年底我們的情況。

So that ballpark gives you a little bit of a feeling where that might end up.

所以這個大概會給你一點感覺，最終可能會發生什麼。

Thank you very much, Dominik, and this concludes our call for today.

非常感謝你，多明尼克，我們今天的電話會議到此結束。

Thank you all for joining us.

感謝大家加入我們。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thanks to you.

謝謝你。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone.

女士們、先生們，會議現已結束，你們可以掛斷電話了。

Thank you for joining and have a pleasant day.

感謝您的加入並祝您有個愉快的一天。

Goodbye.

再見。