SAP SE (SAP) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome, and thank you for joining the SAP Q3 2025 inancial results conference call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的耐心等待。歡迎各位參加 SAP 2025 年第三季財務業績電話會議，感謝您的參與。（操作說明）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Alexandra Steiger, Global Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我將把會議交給全球投資者關係主管亞歷山德拉·施泰格 (Alexandra Steiger) 主持。請繼續。

Good evening, everyone, and welcome. Thank you for joining us. With me today are CEO, Christian Klein; and CFO, Dominik Asam. On this call, we will discuss SAP's third-quarter '25 results. You can find the deck supplementing this call as well as our quarterly statement on our Investor Relations website.

各位晚上好，歡迎各位。感謝您的參與。今天陪同我的是執行長克里斯蒂安·克萊因和首席財務長多米尼克·阿薩姆。在本次電話會議上，我們將討論 SAP 2025 年第三季的業績。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到本次電話會議的補充資料以及我們的季度報告。

During this call, we will make forward-looking statements, which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to differ materially. Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our filings with the SEC, including, but not limited to, the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F for 2024.

在本次電話會議中，我們將發表前瞻性聲明，即對未來事件的預測、展望或其他聲明。這些聲明是基於目前的預期和假設，但存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與預期有重大差異。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多信息，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括但不限於我們 2024 年 20-F 表格年度報告中的“風險因素”部分。

Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS year on year at constant currencies. The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS.

除非另有說明，本次電話會議中的所有數字均為非國際財務報告準則 (IFRS) 數據，增長率和百分點變化均為固定匯率計算的非國際財務報告準則同比數據。我們提供的非 IFRS 財務指標不應被視為替代或優於依照 IFRS 編製的財務績效指標。

And with that, over to you, Christian.

那麼，接下來就交給你了，克里斯蒂安。

Yes. Thank you, Alexandra, and a warm welcome to everyone on the line. We are already entering the final strategy of 2025, and I'm very happy to report, SAP had a great Q3. and keep still going. Our cloud revenue growth and current cloud backlog performance have been strong.

是的。謝謝你，亞歷山德拉，也熱烈歡迎所有線上觀眾。我們即將進入2025年的最終策略階段，我很高興地報告，SAP第三季業績出色，並將繼續保持成長勢頭。我們的雲端業務營收成長和目前的雲端業務積壓訂單表現都很強勁。

Business in the US public sector has started to pick up again. Overall, we are gaining market share. So our customers are adopting solutions across the entire business suite, including Business Data Cloud and AI at an accelerated pace. A recent IDC study shows that we grew 10 percentage points faster than the rest of the market in 2024.

美國公共部門的業務已經開始復甦。總體而言，我們的市場份額正在成長。因此，我們的客戶正在加速採用涵蓋整個業務套件的解決方案，包括業務資料雲端和人工智慧。IDC 最近的一項研究表明，到 2024 年，我們的成長速度將比市場其他參與者快 10 個百分點。

Looking ahead, the pipeline for Q4 and 2026 looks great as we unlocked a few key industries where business had stalled in half-year one. As a result, we can confirm with high confidence, our ambition to accelerate total revenue growth through 2027. And I'm very excited about that AI is becoming the key enabler of our course.

展望未來，第四季和 2026 年的業務前景一片光明，因為我們已經打開了幾個關鍵產業的大門，而這些產業在第一年上半年的業務一直停滯不前。因此，我們可以非常有信心地確認，我們實現到 2027 年加速總收入成長的目標。我非常高興人工智慧正在成為我們課程的關鍵推動因素。

So first, let's have a closer look at the quarter's financial results and our customer wins. In Q3, cloud revenue rose 27%. Cloud revenue has consistently grown more than 25% for five quarters in a row. And it was coming with a very solid cloud gross margin of about 75% in Q3. Total revenue growth came in again double digits at 11%. Current cloud backlog increased 27%, a strong performance considering that the workmen acquisition is now in the base. And once again, our bottom line performance was excellent. Free cash flow increased by 5%, while operating profit came in 19% higher despite negative impact of around EUR200 million, which Dominik will explain heavily in a moment.

首先，讓我們仔細看看本季的財務表現和客戶成果。第三季度，雲端收入成長了27%。雲端業務收入已連續五個季度維持25%以上的成長。第三季度，其雲端業務毛利率非常穩健，約 75%。總收入再次實現兩位數成長，達到 11%。目前雲積壓訂單增加了 27%，考慮到工人收購目前已進入基礎階段，這是一個強勁的成績。我們的獲利表現再次非常出色。儘管受到約 2 億歐元的負面影響（多明尼克稍後會對此進行詳細解釋），但自由現金流仍增長了 5%，營業利潤也增長了 19%。

The customer stories from Q3 and color to the picture. Alphabet, Ericsson, Lufthansa, The Magnum Ice Cream Company, STIHL, Syngenta Crop Protection, Tapestry. These companies are known around the world. They are industry leaders with iconic plans. And they all opted for the wise journey in Q3.

第三季客戶故事及圖片色彩。Alphabet、愛立信、漢莎航空、夢龍冰淇淋公司、STIHL、先正達作物保護、Tapestry。這些公司享譽全球。他們是產業領導者，擁有標誌性的規劃。第三季度，他們都選擇了明智的道路。

But their business transformation journey doesn't stop at cloud ERP. Ericsson, Lufthansa, Magnum, Syngenta, STIHL, and Tapestry also adopted SAP Business Data Cloud and Business AI, and expanded the SAP footprint with our business with LOB solutions. Alphabet, for its part, selected BDC and we deepened our relationship with plans to further support our business AI road map with Google Gemini. The picture is the same wherever you look.

但他們的業務轉型之旅並不會止步於雲端ERP。愛立信、漢莎航空、Magnum、先正達、STIHL 和 Tapestry 也採用了 SAP Business Data Cloud 和 Business AI，並透過 LOB 解決方案擴大了 SAP 在我們業務中的應用範圍。Alphabet 選擇了 BDC，我們深化了與 Google Gemini 的合作關係，並計劃進一步支援我們的業務人工智慧路線圖。無論從哪個角度看，畫面都一樣。

In addition to their new wise journeys in Q3, we won JYSK for CX, Jack Wolfskin for supply chain, Takeda for Ariba and supply chain, and all three customers also signed up for Business Data Cloud. Panasonic, for their part, signed up for Wise in 2022, and now in Q3, selected our complete human capital management portfolio.

除了他們在第三季開啟的全新智慧之旅外，我們還贏得了 JYSK 的客戶體驗 (CX) 業務、Jack Wolfskin 的供應鏈業務、武田製藥的 Ariba 和供應鏈業務，這三家客戶也都註冊了 Business Data Cloud。松下公司於 2022 年簽約了 Wise，現在在第三季選擇了我們完整的人力資本管理產品組合。

As you already know from the analyst conference at Sapphire, we see the potential to convert EUR1 of on-premise revenue into EUR5 and more of cloud revenue by transforming the end-to-end value chain of our customers through wise with SAP. About half of that potential is upselling and cost selling. The conclusion from these stories is very clear. Our strategy works, land and expand works, and the AI infused integrated business suite is the way forward for customers as well as for SAP.

正如您從 Sapphire 分析師大會上了解到的那樣，我們看到了透過與 SAP 攜手，轉變客戶的端到端價值鏈，從而將 1 歐元的本地部署收入轉化為 5 歐元甚至更多的雲端收入的潛力。其中約一半的潛力在於追加銷售和成本銷售。這些故事的結論非常明確。我們的策略奏效了，落地並擴張的策略奏效了，而融入人工智慧的整合式業務套件是客戶和 SAP 的未來發展方向。

As for the journey, our strategy is playing out very nicely as well. Among those that embark on their growth journeys where the AI companies Perplexity, Konecta, and Kodiak AI. It is great to see that many fast-growing tech companies build their unique growth stories with SAP's business suite.

至於旅程方面，我們的策略也進展得非常順利。在那些踏上成長之路的公司中，包括人工智慧公司 Perplexity、Konecta 和 Kodiak AI。很高興看到許多快速發展的科技公司借助 SAP 的業務套件打造了各自獨特的成長故事。

Next to the Q3 wins also Bending Spoons, [Top and Solid] for example. They all in place our growth journey because of the following reasons. They will be able to go live in a matter of weeks. They can scale our platform from small to big without any effort in over 60 countries going towards the IPO and beyond. And they will never have to think about upgrades again and can instead invest their IT money in continuous innovation like AI.

除了 Q3 獲勝者之外，還有 Bending Spoons，[Top and Solid] 例如。它們都為我們的發展歷程奠定了基礎，原因如下。幾週之內他們就能上線了。他們可以毫不費力地將我們的平台從小規模擴展到大規模，涵蓋 60 多個國家，協助 IPO 及後續發展。這樣一來，他們將不再需要考慮升級問題，而是可以將IT資金投入人工智慧等持續創新。

Finally, let's have a look at our soft and cloud offering. I already mentioned that business in the US public sector is picking up again. SAP NS2 was awarded a major framework contract with the US government. And we are very happy that we have already won first orders under this framework in Q3. For example, the United States Army signed a contract enabling the migration from on-premise systems to the cloud.

最後，讓我們來看看我們的軟體和雲端產品。我之前已經提到過，美國公共部門的業務正在復甦。SAP NS2 獲得了美國政府的一項重要框架合約。我們非常高興地宣布，在第三季我們已經根據這個框架贏得了首批訂單。例如，美國陸軍簽署了一份合同，實現了從本地系統向雲端的遷移。

In the US and worldwide, more and more customers are watching us with their software niche. While some companies pursue high growth in the infrastructure business, we are sticking to our strategy. SAP will not build Giga factories. Instead, we provide soft and cloud solutions together with strong cloud infrastructure partners. This allow us to offer customers, the best of the best across the technology stack. And it allows us to reach great global coverage at a healthy margin without any long-term bets.

在美國乃至全世界，越來越多的客戶都在關注我們，因為我們專注於特定的軟體領域。雖然有些公司在基礎設施業務中追求高速成長，但我們堅持我們的策略。SAP不會興建超級工廠。相反，我們與強大的雲端基礎設施合作夥伴一起提供軟性雲端解決方案。這使我們能夠為客戶提供整個技術堆疊中最好的產品和服務。它使我們能夠在不進行任何長期投資的情況下，以健康的利潤率實現廣泛的全球覆蓋。

Together with AWS, we recently launched software offerings for India and Europe. And with OpenAI, we launched a partnership, providing German public sector customers softer in access to one of the world's leading LLM.

我們最近與 AWS 合作，面向印度和歐洲推出了軟體產品。我們與 OpenAI 建立了合作夥伴關係，為德國公共部門客戶提供更便捷的方式，讓他們能夠獲得世界領先的 LLM 服務之一。

On top of that, we just introduced a game-changing new soft and cloud offering for highly regulated customers and governments. We can now offer our entire cloud portfolio in a customer data center at a highly competitive cost. The offering delivers the highest levels of data, operational, technical, and legal software, while customers have access to all SAP cloud solutions, BTP, BDC, and AI. We see tremendous customer interest in this soft and cloud on-site offering and have built already strong pipeline for 2025 and 2026 within a few weeks.

除此之外，我們也為受嚴格監管的客戶和政府推出了一項顛覆性的全新軟體和雲端服務。現在，我們可以在客戶的資料中心以極具競爭力的價格提供我們全套雲端產品組合。該產品提供最高層級的資料、營運、技術和法律軟體，同時客戶還可以存取所有 SAP 雲端解決方案、BTP、BDC 和 AI。我們看到客戶對這種軟雲部署的現場解決方案表現出極大的興趣，並且在短短幾週內就為 2025 年和 2026 年建立了強大的銷售管道。

With regards to AI, our strategy is playing out as well. For high-value AI cases in B2B, a large language model alone is not sufficient. To make it simple, no apps, no data, no AI. Only the combination of LAMPS with business process and contextual data results in high-value AI use cases. That is our strategy. That is where SAP is better than anyone else. And that is where we innovate and invest.

在人工智慧方面，我們的策略也正在奏效。對於 B2B 領域的高價值人工智慧案例，僅靠大型語言模式是不夠的。簡單來說，沒有應用程序，沒有數據，沒有人工智慧。只有將 LAMPS 與業務流程和上下文資料結合，才能產生高價值的 AI 應用案例。這就是我們的策略。在這方面，SAP 比其他任何公司都更勝一籌。這就是我們進行創新和投資的地方。

We are proud of releasing more and more AI agents, but it is not the number that counts. It is about how we automate and infuse intelligence across end-to-end business processes. It is about orchestrating AI agents across the company's value chain, something only SAP can do. That's why we are introducing AI assistance in June. Orchestrating our agents to support specific personas and functions in the company.

我們為推出越來越多的AI代理商而感到自豪，但重要的不是數量。它關乎我們如何實現端到端業務流程的自動化和智慧化。它關乎如何協調公司價值鏈中的人工智慧代理，而這只有 SAP 才能做到。這就是我們決定在六月推出人工智慧輔助功能的原因。合理安排我們的代理商，以支援公司內的特定角色和職能。

Imagine, for example, an AI assistant for supply chain management, supporting a planner to rewire goods, optimize inventories or connect new suppliers seamlessly. Think of these assistance as team leads who bring just the wide technical agents into the conversation from a pool of hundreds. For example, bringing in a maintenance planner agent as part of the production planning process, and supporting the bladder to reduce downtimes of important assets significantly increasing the productivity of the planner by up to 40%.

例如，想像一下，一個用於供應鏈管理的 AI 助手，可以幫助規劃人員重新安排貨物運輸、優化庫存或無縫連接新的供應商。可以將這些協助人員視為團隊領導，他們從數百名技術人員中挑選出最合適的技術人員參與討論。例如，在生產計劃過程中引入維護計劃代理，並支援膀胱減少重要資產的停機時間，從而顯著提高計劃員的生產力，最高可達 40%。

We are currently working with customers across all industries and functions to co-develop and refine these assistance to maximize the business value. We are also releasing the tune everywhere and everything functionality to customers in Q4. Thanks to our partnership with Perplexity, our AI copilot can now work with both SAP and non-SAP data. and it can provide high-quality answers to very complex business questions.

我們目前正與各行各業、各職能部門的客戶合作，共同開發並改善這些援助措施，以最大限度地提高業務價值。我們將在第四季向客戶發布隨時隨地調整音樂的功能。由於我們與 Perplexity 的合作，我們的 AI 助理現在可以處理 SAP 數據和非 SAP 數據，並能為非常複雜的業務問題提供高品質的答案。

Finally, our latest research publication on SAP's foundation module for tabular data will be a spotlight paper at one of the world's top AI research conferences this year. We are at the cutting edge of research and turning now these insights into tangible benefits for our customers.

最後，我們關於 SAP 表格資料基礎模組的最新研究成果將成為今年世界頂級人工智慧研究會議之一的重點論文。我們處於研究的前沿，現在正將這些見解轉化為客戶的實際利益。

In Q4, we are going to sign Wise deals initially banned in 2026 and because customers want to start now using SAP Business AI. And even more important for us at SAP, AI adoption is going up significantly. Because end users are consuming SAP business AI at a higher frequency and across a broader scope, some examples.

在第四季度，我們將簽署一些原本計劃在 2026 年實施的明智交易，因為客戶現在就想開始使用 SAP Business AI。對 SAP 而言，更重要的是，人工智慧的應用正在顯著成長。因為最終使用者使用 SAP 商業人工智慧的頻率更高，範圍更廣，以下是一些範例。

Johnson control saved 3,000 hours annually by automating out IT system monitoring with our IT agent. Bosch saves 2,500 hours per customer service center per year with our services agent. JK Cement from India has cut the time for purchase-related processes by 50% with our sourcing agent. But we build use cases not just for the focus on sound layer. Super happy to report that we are going, in the meantime, deep into the industry verticals as well.

透過使用我們的 IT 代理實現 IT 系統監控自動化，江森自控每年節省了 3000 小時。博世透過我們的服務代理，每個客戶服務中心每年可節省 2500 小時。透過我們的採購代理，印度 JK 水泥公司將採購相關流程的時間縮短了 50%。但我們建立用例不僅僅是為了關注聲音層。非常高興地告訴大家，同時，我們也正在深入各產業垂直領域。

To give you two examples. Vaisala, a manufacturing company is infusing SAP business AI in their mission-critical spare part quotation process. This results in a significantly higher process accuracy and a much better customer and supplier experience. And with CHS, an agriculture company, we are enabling traders to create commodity contracts in natural language with SPC2 with estimated efficiency gains in the tens of thousands of dollars per trader, as well as improved data integrity and accuracy.

舉兩個例子。製造業企業維薩拉正在將 SAP 商業人工智慧融入其關鍵的備件報價流程中。這將顯著提高流程準確率，並帶來更好的客戶和供應商體驗。我們與農業公司 CHS 合作，使交易員能夠使用 SPC2 以自然語言創建商品合約，預計每位交易員可節省數萬美元的效率，並提高資料完整性和準確性。

Looking at the data layer and our business data cloud offering, we are also pushing ahead. For example, with the hundreds of data products released to date, and new capabilities for intelligent apps such as people intelligence and [Gemino] intelligence.

從資料層和我們的業務資料雲產品來看，我們也在不斷推進。例如，迄今已發布了數百種數據產品，以及智慧應用程式的新功能，例如人員智慧和[Gemino]智慧。

We are also strengthening our position in data with our new offering, SAP Business Data Cloud Connect, a serial copy service to connect BDC with partner data platforms such as Databricks and also Google BigQuery. Customers receive life and secure access to Google's AI ecosystem and Gemini modules among many other things. More exciting data partnerships will soon follow at our target event in November.

我們也透過新推出的 SAP Business Data Cloud Connect 加強了我們在資料領域的地位。 SAP Business Data Cloud Connect 是一項串列複製服務，可將 BDC 與 Databricks 和 Google BigQuery 等合作夥伴資料平台連接起來。客戶將獲得對Google人工智慧生態系統和 Gemini 模組的終身安全存取權限，以及其他諸多權益。更多令人興奮的數據合作項目將在我們11月的目標活動中陸續推出。

Internally, at SAP, we are also dialing down on AI adoption. Acting as customer's COO for our own solutions, we boost productivity. Some of the greatest internal levers are in development, go-to-market, customer support, pricing, and process simplification in the corporate functions, for example, in the deal approval process. SAP wants SAP. That is the guiding principle.

在 SAP 內部，我們也正在放緩人工智慧的應用。我們扮演客戶營運長的角色，運用自己的解決方案，提高生產力。一些最重要的內部槓桿作用體現在公司職能部門的開發、市場推廣、客戶支援、定價和流程簡化等方面，例如交易審批流程。SAP想要SAP。這是指導原則。

As for Joule, our AI copilot answers thousands of employee questions every day from simple tasks, such as travel to bookings, to complex quoting support at quarter end. We believe that simplification and internal AI adoption will enable our headcount to grow significantly below revenue.

至於 Joule，我們的人工智慧助理每天回答數千個員工問題，從簡單的任務（例如旅行預訂）到季度末的複雜報價支援。我們相信，簡化流程和內部採用人工智慧將使我們的員工人數成長遠低於收入成長。

Let me now summarize. SAP is in a very good shape. We closed a great Q3 and are ready for Q4, thanks to a very healthy pipeline. At the same time, we are building a strong position for SAP to be a leader in the AI was with apps, data and AI as the winning formula.

現在讓我總結一下。SAP目前狀況良好。第三季我們取得了不錯的成績，由於產品線非常充足，我們已經為第四季做好了準備。同時，我們正在為 SAP 打造強大的市場地位，使其成為人工智慧領域的領導者，而應用程式、數據和人工智慧正是致勝之道。

As 2025 is coming to a close, we are already looking ahead to the next chapter. Our product strategy and business model are spot on. This gives us resilience across regions and industries. AI will be the key enabler for accelerating double-digit total revenue growth through 2027. Given all that and more, I'm very much looking forward to the future.

2025年即將結束，我們已經在展望下一個篇章。我們的產品策略和商業模式非常精準。這使我們能夠在各個地區和行業中保持韌性。到 2027 年，人工智慧將成為實現兩位數總營收成長的關鍵推動因素。鑑於以上種種以及更多，我對未來充滿期待。

And with that, I'm now handing it over to Dominik. Dominik?

好了，現在我把它交給多明尼克了。多明尼克？

Thank you, Christian, and thank you all for joining us this evening. As Christian mentioned, SAP delivered yet another great quarter with performance that underscores the momentum we see across the business despite the persistent challenges and uncertainties in the broader macroeconomic backdrop.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安，也謝謝各位今晚蒞臨。正如克里斯蒂安所提到的，儘管宏觀經濟背景持續面臨挑戰和不確定性，SAP 依然取得了又一個出色的季度業績，這凸顯了我們在整個業務領域看到的良好發展勢頭。

In Q3, we saw strong execution on current cloud backlog and cloud revenue. This, coupled with the healthy growth in operating profit reflects the safeguards we put in place a disciplined with which we are managing the business. The cloud ERP suite delivered its 15th consecutive quarter with growth exceeding 30%, highlighting the progress we are making in helping customers migrate to the cloud and validating the strength of our strategy. These achievements show that SAP remains a bellwether for digital transformation, reflecting the trust customer place in our mission-critical solutions and positioning us for durable growth in the years ahead.

第三季度，我們在現有雲端訂單積壓和雲端收入方面都取得了強勁的執行力。這一點，再加上營業利潤的健康成長，反映了我們採取的保障措施以及我們以嚴謹的態度管理業務。雲端 ERP 套件連續第 15 個季度實現 30% 以上的成長，凸顯了我們在幫助客戶遷移到雲端方面取得的進展，並驗證了我們策略的有效性。這些成就表明 SAP 仍然是數位轉型的風向標，反映了客戶對我們關鍵任務解決方案的信任，並為我們未來幾年的持續成長奠定了基礎。

Now, more details around our financial highlights. Countless -- backlog exceeded EUR18.8 billion, up 27% and Cloud revenue also increased 27%, driven once again by the strong performance of Cloud ERP suite. It delivered 31% growth in Q3, demonstrating the unabated momentum of strong market share gains in what by now represents 87% of cloud revenues and actually more than 100% of the year-over-year increase in cloud revenues. The magnitude of these market share gains becomes even more evident if adjusted from 31% Cloud ERP growth at constant currencies with the reporting currency of our competitors, which is obviously the US dollar.

接下來，我們將詳細介紹我們的財務亮點。無數訂單——積壓訂單超過 188 億歐元，成長 27%；雲端收入也成長了 27%，再次得益於雲端 ERP 套件的強勁表現。第三季實現了 31% 的成長，這表明其市場份額持續強勁增長，目前已佔雲端收入的 87%，並且實際上佔雲端收入同比增長的 100% 以上。如果將以固定匯率計算的 31% 雲端 ERP 成長率調整為競爭對手的報告貨幣（顯然是美元），這些市場佔有率成長的幅度將更加明顯。

During the quarter, we also closed our acquisition of SmartRecruiters. This tuck-in strengthens our capabilities and talent acquisition and supports our long-term strategy. Despite our solid operating momentum in Q3, please keep in mind that as we progress through the remainder of 2025, we need to stay mindful of the broader environment.

本季度，我們也完成了對 SmartRecruiters 的收購。此次收購增強了我們的能力和人才引進能力，並支持了我們的長期策略。儘管我們在第三季取得了穩健的營運勢頭，但請記住，在 2025 年剩餘的時間裡，我們需要密切關注更廣泛的環境。

We were also awarded a major US public sector framework agreement in Q3 with the United States Army which we expect will expand our access to future opportunities in this market, giving us confidence that this industry is seeing early signs of improving engagement. Software licenses revenue decreased by 42% in Q3. Finally, total revenue came in at EUR9.1 billion, up 11% and the share of more predictable revenue rose by 2 percentage points to 87%.

第三季度，我們還與美國陸軍簽署了一項重要的美國公共部門框架協議，我們預計這將擴大我們未來在該市場獲得機會的管道，這讓我們相信該行業正在出現參與度提高的早期跡象。第三季軟體授權收入下降了 42%。最終，總收入達到 91 億歐元，成長 11%，其中可預測收入的份額上升了 2 個百分點，達到 87%。

Now a brief look at our regional performance. In Q3, SAP's cloud revenue performance was particularly strong in APJ and EMEA and solid in the Americas region. Brazil, France, Germany, India, Italy, and South Korea all had outstanding performance, while Japan, Spain, and the US were particularly strong.

現在簡要地看一下我們區域的表現。第三季度，SAP 的雲端收入在亞太及日本地區和歐洲、中東和非洲地區表現尤為強勁，在美洲地區也表現穩健。巴西、法國、德國、印度、義大利和韓國均表現出色，而日本、西班牙和美國表現特別強勁。

Now moving down the income statement. Our non-IFRS cloud gross margin for the quarter expanded by 1.1 percentage points to 75.1%, driving cloud gross profit up by 28%.

現在來看損益表。本季我們的非 IFRS 雲端業務毛利率成長了 1.1 個百分點，達到 75.1%，推動雲端業務毛利成長了 28%。

IFRS operating profit increased 12% to EUR2.5 billion in the quarter. In the third quarter, non-IFRS operating profit was up 19% to EUR2.6 billion. Both IFRS and non-IFRS operating profit growth were negatively impacted by approximately EUR100 million as a result of a change in case law that affected SAP's other tax litigation provisions, as well as more than EUR100 million related to the workforce transformation. In light of the timing for some of the measures related to this program, we anticipate another EUR100 million of expenses to be recognized in the fourth quarter of 2025.

本季度，以國際財務報告準則計算的營業利潤成長12%，達到25億歐元。第三季度，非國際財務報告準則下的營業利潤成長19%，達到26億歐元。由於判例法的變化影響了 SAP 的其他稅務訴訟準備金，導致 IFRS 和非 IFRS 下的營業利潤增長均受到約 1 億歐元的負面影響；此外，與勞動力轉型相關的損失也超過 1 億歐元。鑑於與該計劃相關的某些措施的實施時間，我們預計在 2025 年第四季將確認另外 1 億歐元的支出。

I'll now touch on our results below the operating line. The IFRS effective tax rate in Q3 was 25.3%, and the non-IFRS tax rate was 27.9%. The IFRS effective tax rate is lower than the non-IFRS effective tax rate due to the tax benefits from tax-exempt income.

接下來我將談談我們低於營運線的績效。第三季 IFRS 實際稅率為 25.3%，非 IFRS 稅率為 27.9%。由於免稅收入帶來的稅收優惠，IFRS 實際稅率低於非 IFRS 實際稅率。

Operating cash flow in the third quarter was up by 7% to EUR1.5 billion, and free cash flow increased by 5% to EUR1.3 billion. The increase was mainly attributable to the higher profitability and to lower restructuring payments, which were partially offset by higher tax payments.

第三季經營現金流成長7%至15億歐元，自由現金流成長5%至13億歐元。成長主要歸因於更高的獲利能力和更低的重組費用，但部分被更高的稅收支出所抵消。

Finally, basic IFRS earnings per share increased to EUR1.72 and non-IFRS earnings per share increased to EUR1.59.

最後，以國際財務報告準則計算的基本每股盈餘增加至 1.72 歐元，以非國際財務報告準則計算的每股盈餘增加至 1.59 歐元。

Now on to our outlook. As you've seen in today's release, we now expect to reach the range of our cloud revenue outlook for fiscal year 2025 towards its lower end due to delayed bookings in the first half of the year as already highlighted in July. We've seen this dynamic of back-end loaded bookings again in Q3, especially in sectors such as industrial manufacturing and public sector. Nonetheless, we're now expecting to land towards the upper end of our operating profit outlook range and forecast free cash flow to exceed the previous target of EUR8 billion.

接下來談談我們的展望。正如您在今天的公告中看到的，由於今年上半年的預訂延遲（正如我們在 7 月強調的那樣），我們現在預計 2025 財年的雲端收入預期將接近其下限。我們在第三季再次看到了這種後端訂單集中的趨勢，尤其是在工業製造和公共部門等行業。儘管如此，我們現在預計營業利潤將接近預期範圍的上限，並預測自由現金流將超過先前設定的 80 億歐元目標。

We continue to expect [CCB] growth to slightly decrease in 2025. Well, by now, we have a quite precise view as to where we will end up within our guided range for cloud revenue for fiscal year 2025. Given that Q4 is by far the biggest quarter in terms of bookings seasonality, we still have a larger range of potential outcomes for CCB growth. Nonetheless, our robust pipeline of opportunities and our strong competitive momentum give us confidence to reiterate our ambition to accelerate total revenue growth through 2027.

我們仍預期[CCB]的成長將在2025年略有下降。到目前為止，我們對 2025 財年雲端收入的預期範圍已經有了相當精確的了解。鑑於第四季度是預訂量季節性最大的季度，CCB 的成長仍有更大的潛在結果範圍。儘管如此，我們強大的發展機會儲備和強勁的競爭勢頭使我們有信心重申我們的目標，即在 2027 年加速總收入成長。

This performance underscores the strength of our portfolio, operational discipline as well as our ability to deliver results. For additional details, please refer to our quarterly statement published earlier today on our Investor Relations website.

這項績效凸顯了我們投資組合的實力、營運紀律以及我們交付成果的能力。更多詳情請參閱我們今天稍早在投資者關係網站上發布的季度報告。

And thank you, and now we will be happy to take your questions.

謝謝大家，現在我們很樂意回答你們的問題。

Thank you, Dominik. Again, we will take your questions now. Again, I would kindly remind you to only ask one question when prompted.

謝謝你，多米尼克。現在我們再次接受大家的提問。再次提醒您，被問到時請只提一個問題。

Operator, please open the line.

接線員，請接通線路。

(Operator Instructions) Toby Ogg, JPMorgan.

（操作說明）托比·奧格，摩根大通。

Yeah. Hi, good evening and thanks for the question. Just on the demand backdrop, Christian. I know you talked previously about elongated sales cycles across various sectors, US public sector, and manufacturing. Could you just give us an update on what you're seeing now with respect to these sectors? Obviously, there's the shutdown at the moment, but it sounds like you're seeing some positive early signs.

是的。您好，晚上好，感謝您的提問。僅憑需求背景，克里斯蒂安。我知道您之前談過各個行業、美國公共部門和製造業的銷售週期延長問題。能否請您介紹一下目前這些領域的最新情況？顯然，目前正處於停工狀態，但聽起來你似乎看到了一些積極的早期跡象。

And then just related on the backlog, Dominik, I think you'd said at a recent conference that four percentage points of decline would be a bit more than a slight decline, which is the guidance. So is it right for us to interpret that as a 25% exit rate being unlikely as that would be four points deceleration from the 29% that you did in 2024? Thank you.

關於積壓訂單的問題，Dominik，我想你在最近的一次會議上說過，4 個百分點的下降幅度將比輕微下降幅度略大一些，而輕微下降正是我們給出的指導意見。那麼，我們是否可以這樣理解為 25% 的退出率不太可能出現，因為這比 2024 年的 29% 下降了 4 個百分點？謝謝。

Yeah. So happy to take your question. And first, I mean, on macro and deal cycles and just to give you also a bit insights into our Q4 pipe. I mean, first, what is not only very positive is that we have to cover it. Q4 is, by far, as you know, our biggest bookings quarter and coverage looks really good.

是的。非常樂意回答您的問題。首先，我想談談宏觀經濟和交易週期，也想讓大家對我們第四季的業務發展有所了解。我的意思是，首先，非常積極的一點是，我們必須報道這件事。如您所知，第四季度是我們迄今為止預訂量最大的季度，而且覆蓋率看起來非常好。

We even see in the US public sector -- I mean, you saw the adjusted cloud revenue guidance. I mean, when you're going to miss in the US public sector and also in a few deals in the manufacturing space, somehow the bookings in half year one, and it's hard to catch up. Now the good piece is, looking at our Q4 pipeline, I find a lot of these deals now coming back. And that gives us a lot of confidence for Q4.

我們甚至在美國公共部門也看到了這種情況——我的意思是，你們已經看到了調整後的雲端收入預期。我的意思是，如果你在美國公共部門以及製造業的一些交易中失利，導致第一年上半年的訂單量下降，那麼就很難趕上。好消息是，看看我們第四季的業務拓展情況，我發現很多這類交易現在都重新出現了。這讓我們對第四季充滿信心。

The good piece is, also when you look at the pattern of the pipeline and not even Q4, we had also order look on rolling for quarter. The good piece is, I always ask the question, are we connected to the C level? Is it only about IT and of maintenance? Or is there a high value? And I can tell you in over 90% of the deals, we are talking to the seed level.

好消息是，從管道模式來看，即使不是第四季度，我們也有訂單展望，預計季度將持續成長。好的一點是，我總是會問自己：我們是否與高階主管有聯繫？只是關於IT和維護嗎？還是它的價值很高？我可以告訴你，在超過 90% 的交易中，我們都在與種子輪融資方洽談。

We are talking about cost optimization with AI, especially in the chemical industries. But this is not about, do we do it or do we not do it? It's actually a done deal that they want to do it. but it's also about AI being the leading factor for doing this deal, and not only to be more safe in the cloud.

我們正在探討如何利用人工智慧進行成本優化，尤其是在化學工業。但這並非關乎我們做還是不做這件事？實際上，他們想做這件事已經是板上釘釘的事了。但促成這筆交易的關鍵因素是人工智慧，而不僅僅是為了提高雲端安全性。

Second, when we also then look at the Q4 pipeline, what is also very promising is that when we have seen in the past, this kind of pipeline cover, which we could definitely see that when we're executing it in the right way, when we are connected to the C level, when there is a compelling business case, I mean then it's all about execution. It's in our hands, nothing else, no macro, no elongated sales cycles.

其次，當我們再看一下第四季度的研發管線時，同樣令人鼓舞的是，我們過去也看到過這種研發管線覆蓋範圍，我們肯定可以看到，當我們以正確的方式執行，當我們與高管層建立聯繫，當有一個令人信服的商業案例時，我的意思是，一切都取決於執行。一切都掌握在我們自己手中，別無其他，沒有宏觀因素，也沒有漫長的銷售週期。

And then last but not least, when it comes to the CCB, I mean, I definitely don't see a [25]. Q4 can have a big swing and so I would be rather a bit more optimistic when we are talking about the CCB and the exit rate for this year given the momentum in our business.

最後，說到CCB，我的意思是，我絕對看不到任何…[25] 第四季可能會有很大的波動，因此，鑑於我們業務的發展勢頭，我對今年的建交證和退出率持相當樂觀的態度。

Mohammed Moawalla, Goldman Sachs.

穆罕默德·莫瓦拉，高盛集團。

Great. Thank you. Hi, Christian. Hi, Dominik. Just for me, again, on the sort of the delay you're seeing in terms of the backlog and the back-end loaded nature of the deals falling into kind of cloud revenue, how should we think of that because the Q4 implies a kind of significant step down? But when we think of cloud revenue going into next year, do you still expect to be around that sort of mid-20s level, plus or minus?

偉大的。謝謝。你好，克里斯蒂安。你好，多明尼克。就我個人而言，關於您目前看到的積壓訂單延遲以及交易後端加載性質（這些交易都歸入雲端收入）的問題，我們應該如何看待這個問題？因為第四季意味著某種程度的大幅下滑？但展望明年的雲端運算收入，您是否仍預計會維持在 25% 左右的水平，上下浮動一些？

Yes. And I mean, Q4 is, of course, a very important quarter. As you know, for the cloud revenue guidance for next year, we have the pipeline, we have the coverage. We have the industry back, which we were waiting for. And we have AI in order to build these compelling business cases.

是的。當然，第四季是一個非常重要的季度。如您所知，對於明年的雲端收入預期，我們有相應的管道和覆蓋範圍。我們終於迎來了業界的復甦，這是我們一直期盼的。我們利用人工智慧來建構這些引人注目的商業案例。

And so, yes. Ae are definitely very confident that we can not only deliver a good Q4, but also pick up some of the store pipeline in half year one now that we were able to open up these markets for SAP again.

是的。我們非常有信心，不僅能夠實現良好的第四季度業績，而且既然我們已經能夠再次為 SAP 開放這些市場，我們還能在第一年上半年恢復一些門市業務。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

Michael Briest, UBS.

瑞銀集團的麥可·布里斯特。

Yes, good evening. Thanks. Christian, I know that you announced some of the details around the SAP ERP transition option for those customers who need longer to move over to S/4 in the cloud, can you say something about the uptake? And I think you've done quite a smart thing on pricing by flagging increases that people don't sign by the year-end. What sort of uptake do you expect? And does this give you sort of visibility on hopefully a small number of customers who will adopt this option?

是的，晚上好。謝謝。Christian，我知道你公佈了一些關於 SAP ERP 過渡方案的細節，該方案適用於那些需要更長時間才能遷移到雲端 S/4 的客戶，你能談談該方案的接受程度嗎？我認為你們在定價方面做得非常聰明，你們會提前告知那些在年底前沒有簽署漲價協議的人。你預計會有怎樣的市場接受度？這樣是否能讓你大致了解有多少客戶會選擇這個方案？

Yes, happy to do so, Michael. I mean, first, when you look at the pipe and analyzing the pipeline we also delivered now the increase in pipeline over the last, I would say, three to four months. There was positive momentum. I mean, first, yes, it's this transitioning option. But also, Michael, don't overestimate the potential. I mean, yes, we have a lot of large customers and they cannot transform all ERPs businesses at the same time.

是的，我很樂意這樣做，邁克爾。我的意思是，首先，當你觀察管道並分析管道時，你會發現，在過去的3到4個月裡，我們的管道輸送能力也有所提高。形勢一片大好。我的意思是，首先，是的，這是一個過渡方案。但是，邁克爾，也不要高估潛力。我的意思是，是的，我們有很多大客戶，他們不可能同時改造所有ERP業務。

Now, I mentioned in the past a few examples. And for these customers, it's great. And yes, then indeed, it's helping to move those customers also more faster to the cloud to secure their landscape to give them also the security on the support, on the cyber side, on the SLAs around the operations of the system. Even more important, I would say, is when I saw now in the last three months that really moved the pipeline was a one software cloud.

我之前提到過一些例子。對這些顧客來說，這真是太好了。沒錯，這樣做確實有助於更快地將這些客戶遷移到雲端，從而保護他們的環境，並為他們提供支援、網路安全以及系統運行相關的服務等級協定 (SLA) 方面的安全保障。更重要的是，我認為，在過去的三個月裡，真正推動整個流程發展的是一個軟體雲端平台。

And I know others playing a big bet on infrastructure SAP rather focusing on the value creation at the upper part of the stack, but that doesn't mean that we're not competitive in the software and cloud. I mean we are opening up in every country in the world almost now new options with our infrastructure partners on software and cloud and especially the public sector, be it in MENA, be it in Germany. So not only the US or Australia. It's not really, really coming along.

我知道其他人把大量賭注押在了基礎設施 SAP 上，而不是專注於技術棧上層的價值創造，但這並不意味著我們在軟體和雲端領域沒有競爭力。我的意思是，我們現在幾乎在世界各國都與我們的基礎設施合作夥伴一起，在軟體和雲端領域，尤其是在公共部門，開闢了新的選擇，無論是在中東和北非地區，還是在德國。所以不僅限於美國或澳洲。進展並不順利。

And what I also mentioned in my statement that we can put the whole stack into a customer data center and can operate in a SaaS-like environment, and that was for many customers in these industries really great news, and we see now high interest. And I would say, we can even sign the first deals in Q4, if everything works out well. So yes, the transition option helped soft and helped and then as I mentioned, AI.

我在聲明中也提到，我們可以將整個技術堆疊部署到客戶的資料中心，並在類似 SaaS 的環境中運行，這對這些行業的許多客戶來說都是個好消息，我們現在看到了很高的興趣。如果一切順利，我們甚至可以在第四季度簽署第一批合約。所以，是的，過渡方案對軟性因素有所幫助，然後正如我所提到的，人工智慧也起到了作用。

And look, I know you're always looking for numbers on AI. And I'm also not want to play into a hype on, oh, we deliver now 800 agents in the cloud. I mean, what do 800 agents do, which salesperson can actually sell 800 technical agents.

我知道你一直在尋找人工智慧方面的數據。我也不想助長這種炒作，例如「我們現在在雲端交付了 800 個代理商」。我的意思是，800 個代理商要做什麼？哪個銷售人員能真正把產品賣給 800 個技術代理商？

For me, it's more important when we talk to [Availa cloud], when we talk now to the Q4 opportunities that, (inaudible), a big carpet store market, one of the largest in the world, they want to build AI use cases, giving them a marketing agent to do more targeted marketing campaigns, to understand better the consumer trend. So we are delivering an agents on supply chain. All these agents having all the technical agents underneath to cover the complete supply chain, no.

對我來說，更重要的是，當我們與[Availa cloud]交談時，當我們談到第四季度的機會時，（聽不清楚），一個大型地毯商店市場，世界上最大的市場之一，他們希望建立人工智慧用例，為他們提供一個行銷代理商來開展更有針對性的行銷活動，以便更好地了解消費者趨勢。所以我們正在向供應鏈輸送代理商。所有這些代理商都擁有各自的技術代理商，以涵蓋整個供應鏈，編號為1。

But the customers are seeing, hey, this is what we want. We don't want to get sold on 800 technical agents. We need -- actually, here's a business process. He has a persona, SAP, tell me what does it do for this persona? How much productivity and how much more intelligence do I get, for example, in the supply chain planning process?

但顧客們看到了，嘿，這就是我們想要的。我們不想被800個技術代理所吸引。我們需要—實際上，這是一個業務流程。他有一個角色，SAP，請告訴我它為這個角色做了什麼？例如，在供應鏈規劃過程中，我能獲得多少生產力提升和多少智慧增強？

And that is working. And again -- and even if then there is 20%, 30% of the technical agents missing underneath to orchestrate an end-to-end process, then we say, hey, come on, I mean, this is also what SAP is stronger for how we come to you and we develop together standard agents to really make sure that you can cover this very important business capability. And that is, in the meantime, really the key reason for many of our deals, especially now in Q4.

而且這種方法奏效了。再說一次——即使這意味著底層缺少 20%、30% 的技術代理來協調端到端流程，我們也會說，嘿，拜託，我的意思是，這也是 SAP 的優勢所在，我們會與您一起開發標準代理，真正確保您能夠涵蓋這項非常重要的業務能力。同時，這正是我們達成許多交易的關鍵原因，尤其是在第四季。

And that last piece also reduces the slippage risk because you not only talk about cloud, you not only talk about end of maintenance, you have a compelling business reason. And that, again, gives me also a good confidence that we will also see a good pipeline conversion because a pipeline -- a strong pipeline alone doesn't help. You need to close it. But there, I see also the wide maturity in the pipeline in Q4.

最後這一點也能降低違約風險，因為你不僅談論雲端運算，不僅談論維護結束，你還有令人信服的商業理由。這也讓我更加確信，我們也將看到良好的銷售管道轉換率，因為僅僅依靠強大的銷售管道是不夠的。你需要把它關掉。但是，我也看到了第四季產品線的廣泛成熟度。

Mark Moerdler, Bernstein Research.

Mark Moerdler，伯恩斯坦研究公司。

Thank you so much for taking my questions. Great to hear in terms of the strength of what we should see at the back half of the year. I've got a higher-level question I'd like to ask. SAP is taking the approach through Business Cloud in terms of allowing the data to flow out to systems like Databricks and Google for Analytics and the rest. How should we think about the effect that could have on the future economics for SAP for AI, analytics, et cetera? Thank you.

非常感謝您回答我的問題。很高興聽到關於下半年情勢的樂觀消息。我有一個更高層次的問題想問。SAP 透過 Business Cloud 實現資料流向 Databricks 和 Google Analytics 等系統。我們該如何看待這可能對 SAP 在人工智慧、分析等領域的未來經濟產生的影響？謝謝。

Yeah. Mike, a very good question because I know there are also other people asking similar questions around PDC.

是的。麥克，你問得好，因為我知道在PDC周圍也有其他人問過類似的問題。

I mean first -- and Mark, I want to also make this very clear because some of the discussions around the role of SaaS, the wall of the apps in the future, I don't see one AI use case in the B2B world where you can only deliver high value with an LLM module. I mean, no matter if it's about predictive asset management, we are talking -- we are working on autonomous payrolls, faster quarter ends, strategic workforce in HR. It's always about the combination of the two.

首先——馬克，我也想把這一點說清楚，因為圍繞 SaaS 的作用、未來應用程式的壁壘等一些討論，我在 B2B 領域看不到任何一個 AI 用例，只能透過 LLM 模組來提供高價值。我的意思是，無論是關於預測性資產管理，還是關於自主薪資管理、更快的季度結算、人力資源策略性勞動力管理，我們都在努力。關鍵在於兩者的結合。

So if you always need the data, you always need high-quality data, by the way. I mean, you wouldn't imagine some of the adoption challenges customers sometimes have and they are coming to us that, Christian, I have here a lot of customer agents, but they are really constantly delivering the wrong prediction. I mean, okay, because again, the agent can do magic if the underlying data structure is not harmonized. And if the agent -- technical agent -- again, to my point, you can deliver 800 agents when they don't talk to each other when they don't understand the business context, they are lost.

所以，如果你總是需要數據，那麼你總是需要高品質的數據。我的意思是，你無法想像客戶有時會遇到的一些採用方面的挑戰，他們會來找我們說，克里斯蒂安，我這裡有很多客服人員，但他們總是給出錯誤的預測。我的意思是，好吧，因為如果底層資料結構不協調，代理就可以發揮神奇的作用。如果代理——技術代理——再說一遍，我的意思是，即使你交付了 800 個代理，但如果他們彼此不交流，不了解業務背景，他們就迷失了方向。

And now to BDC and the data side of the house. So BDCs, in the meantime, involved in every AI while still we are doing because customers are getting, okay, I get it. These data products give me the harmonization, the data quality I need to deliver the high value I use cases on top.

現在我們來看看 BDC 和數據方面的情況。所以，與此同時，BDC 參與了每項 AI 工作，而我們仍在這樣做，因為客戶正在接受，好吧，我明白了。這些數據產品為我提供了所需的協調性和數據質量，從而能夠交付我所需的高價值用例。

Now to your question, what does this mean when we are now closing partnerships with Google and Databricks? First, it's all about better data processing still data copy is value. The data products, the semantics, the business context, the orchestration of the agents in a business context is all with SAP. I mean, obviously, you can use some of the data products for data engineering on in the Databricks world. But everything, what happens on AI agents in the context of the SAP applications in the context of the business processes in the context of enterprise analytics, that is SAP.

現在回答你的問題，當我們與Google和Databricks達成合作關係時，這意味著什麼？首先，一切都關乎更好的資料處理，但資料複製仍然有價值。資料產品、語意、業務環境、業務環境中代理程式的編排，所有這些都由 SAP 提供。我的意思是，很顯然，你可以在 Databricks 的世界裡使用一些資料產品進行資料工程。但是，在 SAP 應用程式的脈絡中，在業務流程的脈絡中，在企業分析的脈絡中，人工智慧代理所發生的一切，都屬於 SAP。

And of course, we will never ever give up this crown tool because this is clearly what SAP is best at. And so we are getting the best of both worlds. And I mean, as I mentioned, it's not only Google, there are a few more now coming in Q4, which, again, is even also we already now in the Q4 pipeline for BDC because customers are loving what they see and that SAP is really having now this open data platform which is, again, also very essential for almost every AI use case we are building together with our customers

當然，我們永遠不會放棄這個強大的工具，因為這顯然是 SAP 最擅長的領域。因此，我們兩全其美。我的意思是，正如我之前提到的，不僅僅是谷歌，還有幾家公司將在第四季度加入。事實上，我們BDC的第四季專案也已經提上了日程，因為客戶對他們目前看到的成果非常滿意。 SAP現在擁有一個真正開放的資料平台，這對於我們與客戶共同建構的幾乎所有AI應用場景都至關重要。

Adam Wood, Morgan Stanley.

亞當伍德，摩根士丹利。

Hi, good evening. Thanks for taking the question. I just wondered if we could come back to the confidence on the revenue acceleration for next year. I think you're suggesting we probably end the year on CCB of 26, but obviously, there is a little bit more risk of the range on that one. And it sounds like the lower guide suggests that we exit maybe around 25% growth. I think on -- you need around 24% growth on ad revenues next year to get that revenue acceleration. You're exiting at 25%.

您好，晚上好。感謝您回答這個問題。我只是想問一下，我們能否再談談對明年營收成長的信心。我認為你的意思是說我們今年年底的CCB可能會達到26，但顯然，這個區間有更大的波動風險。聽起來，較低的預期表明我們可能會在 25% 左右的成長目標上退出。我認為——明年廣告收入需要成長約 24% 才能實現收入加速成長。你以 25% 的收益率退出。

It doesn't seem like there's a huge amount of room for error on that scale to get that revenue acceleration. Could you just maybe just give us a few more insights into why that confidence is there. Is it the other revenues within power that you're more optimistic on? Is it the CCB just starts to slow dramatically less because you're starting to close some of the deals that slipped earlier in this year?

要實現如此巨大的營收成長，似乎沒有太多容錯的空間。您能否再詳細解釋一下您為何如此自信？你更看好其他方面的收入來源嗎？是因為今年稍早一些交易的完成，導致建行成長大幅放緩嗎？

Adam, happy to do so. I mean, look, the adjusted cloud revenue guidance is just a result of some of the stall pipeline we had in half year one. And yes, I mean, mathematically, you know how it works. It's hard to pick up. Even if you close these deals in August, September, some of the deals we started to close in September, you cannot make up six months of revenue you couldn't realize.

亞當樂意效勞。我的意思是，你看，調整後的雲端收入預期只是因為我們在第一年上半年的一些專案進度停滯所致。是的，我的意思是，從數學角度來說，你知道它是如何運作的。很難拿起來。即使你在八月、九月完成了這些交易（我們九月開始完成的一些交易），你也無法彌補六個月來未能實現的收入。

Now for the revenue run rate next year, obviously, I mean, they're fully in the backlog. So there, actually now everything what we can pick up from half year 1, plus having a good pipeline, a strong pipeline for Q4 helps. And on the CCB side, as I said before, I mean, yes, I mean there's always a big swing. But I would be, again, also a bit more optimistic than the 25%. We have the pipeline to do more.

至於明年的收入運行率，很顯然，我的意思是，他們已經完全進入了積壓訂單階段。所以，實際上，我們現在可以從第一年上半年中吸取的所有經驗，再加上良好的產品線，第四季度強勁的產品線都會有所幫助。至於 CCB 這邊，正如我之前所說，我的意思是，是的，我的意思是，總是會有很大的波動。但我還是會比 25% 更樂觀。我們有能力做更多的事情。

And again, yes, there is a big swing. There are large deals, but they are very mature. So I'm more confident than the 25%. And with that, obviously, that also sets us up for the total cloud -- for the total revenue acceleration in 2026. And given the high -- the high recurring revenue share we are having in the meantime, I mean we can say this was confident with confidence that if we now deliver on our strong pipeline that it's very likely that you're also going to see this guidance for SAP next year.

是的，波動幅度很大。雖然有大額交易，但它們都非常成熟。所以我比那25%的人更有信心。顯然，這也為我們全面擁抱雲端運算——在 2026 年實現總收入加速成長——奠定了基礎。鑑於我們目前擁有很高的經常性收入份額，我們可以充滿信心地說，如果我們能夠兌現我們強大的銷售管道，那麼明年你們很可能也會看到 SAP 的這項業績指引。

Dominik?

多明尼克？

No, just adding that probably the delta between CCB growth exiting '25 and cloud revenues should be not more than a percentage point, because the famous transactional business is really currently still languishing, I would say. And the biggest reason for that, actually, the overwhelming reason for that being lower travel activity for conquer on bookings, and that's again very much related to the shutdown, which is actually resulting in lower travel activity on government officials.

不，我只是想補充一點，CCB 2025 年底的成長與雲端收入之間的差距可能不會超過一個百分點，因為目前著名的交易業務仍然非常低迷。而造成這種情況的最大原因，或者說壓倒性的原因是，旅行活動減少，導致預訂量下降，而這又與政府停擺密切相關，政府停擺實際上導致了政府官員的旅行活動減少。

Ben Castillo, BNP Paribas.

本‧卡斯蒂略，法國巴黎銀行。

Question maybe for you, Dominic, on free cash flow. Obviously, you've nudged up the guidance for this year up to EUR8.2 billion. You're at EUR7.2 million through nine months this year. I guess I can't recall the last time, Q4 was less than EUR1 billion in free cash flow, excluding one-offs. So is there anything that's different this year that we should be thinking about?

多明尼克，關於自由現金流，或許有個問題想問你。顯然，你們已經將今年的業績預期上調至 82 億歐元。今年前九個月，你的收入為 720 萬歐元。我好像記不清上一次第四季自由現金流（不包括一次性項目）低於 10 億歐元是什麼時候了。那麼，今年有哪些不同之處是我們該考慮的呢？

And I guess the cash conversion so far this year has been very strong. I know you've given us some indications for next year with various headwinds. But nevertheless, just welcome any comments on this year's free cash conversion and thoughts into next year.

我猜今年到目前為止，現金轉換率非常強勁。我知道你已經向我們透露了一些關於明年將面臨的各種不利因素的資訊。不過，歡迎大家對今年的自由現金流轉換率提出任何意見，並展望明年的發展。

Yes. I mean one source is really also the phasing of tax cash out because we had moderate cash takes out in H1, a little bit higher in Q3, but Q4 will be higher. Then obviously, we have to always be cautious about the consumption of transformation credits, and how much of that will be used at the end, which can trigger some cash headwind. So there's nothing magic in there. It's just a myriad of smaller things that happen in the working capital that can make that number a little bit noisy, but we sharpen the pencil as well as we could for Q4 and come up with this number.

是的。我的意思是，其中一個來源實際上也是稅收現金的逐步提取，因為我們在上半年提取的現金適中，第三季度略高一些，但第四季度會更高。那麼很顯然，我們必須始終謹慎對待轉型信貸的消耗，以及最終會使用多少轉型信貸，這可能會引發一些現金流方面的阻力。所以這裡面沒有什麼魔法。營運資金中發生的許多小事都會使這個數字略有波動，但我們盡最大努力對第四季度的數據進行仔細核算，最終得出了這個數字。

So I think this is a is the best we can estimate as of today. And yes, it's really -- phasing topic within the quarter, and it's always a question of receipts and payments of certain activities that happened at the year-end, which can be flipping either side of the term.

所以我認為這是我們目前能做出的最佳估計。是的，這確實是季度內的階段性話題，而且總是與年底發生的某些活動的收支有關，這可能會使該期限發生逆轉。

Frederick Boulan, Bank of America.

弗雷德里克·布蘭，美國銀行。

Christian, Dominik. If I can ask a question on your competitive position versus Oracle. Do you see an incremental risk from their people to -- structure in terms of offering. And also they mentioned you guys a number of times at their recent CMD. So can you get a bit of an update on where you see yourself in the...

克里斯蒂安，多明尼克。我可以問一個關於貴公司與Oracle競爭地位的問題嗎？您是否認為他們的人員結構在產品/服務方面有額外的風險？而且他們在最近的CMD會議上也多次提到了你們。所以，能否簡單介紹一下您目前在…方面的發展規劃？

Yes. Look, mean for me, when I see the recent developments out there in the market, I know that some of our competitors are playing the game on scaling the infrastructure, training LLMs. I mean, when I listen to our customers and that is super important. They are super positive around the value creation we are now providing to them for the end users tool -- HR, finance.

是的。對我來說，當我看到市場上的最新發展時，我知道我們的一些競爭對手正在透過擴大基礎設施規模、培訓LLM（法學碩士）來贏得市場。我的意思是，傾聽客戶的意見非常重要。他們對我們目前為最終使用者工具（人力資源、財務）創造的價值給予了高度評價。

And for us, the infrastructure is, of course, part of the stack. And when you look at software and cloud, I mean, we can actually always offer highly competitive offerings in all parts of the world. And so there is no need in my eyes at all to change our strategy and to suddenly start building data centers everywhere in the world.

對我們來說，基礎設施當然也是整個技術堆疊的一部分。而當你審視軟體和雲端運算領域時，我的意思是，我們實際上始終能夠在世界各地提供極具競爭力的產品。因此，在我看來，我們完全沒有必要改變策略，突然開始在世界各地建造資料中心。

So our strategy is on and it works. And I'm deeply, deeply convinced that when we are now looking at some of the large language modules, I mean our goal is not to train them, but our goal is to use that. And many of them like in old MI, you saw our announcement in Germany are now coming to SAP and say, hey, for this applied AI, I want to do business in the public sector. Can you work with us? Can you give us the BDP? Can you give us tool studio to build all of these agents because we need a development platform? We need to supply thing.

我們的策略奏效了，而且效果顯著。我深信，當我們現在研究一些大型語言模組時，我們的目標不是訓練它們，而是利用它們。很多像老MI一樣的公司，正如你們在德國看到的，現在都來到SAP，說，嘿，對於這種應用人工智慧，我想在公共部門開展業務。你能和我們一起工作嗎？可以提供一下BDP數據嗎？能否提供工具工作室給我們，以便我們可以建造所有這些代理？因為我們需要一個開發平台。我們需要供應某種東西。

Now over time, we need to move up and deliver that. And so we see a huge momentum there also working with these LLM providers in really not only fusing them in our technical stack, but really now going to customers together and actually deliver AI agents together. And so that is actually, for me, the absolute winning formula.

現在，隨著時間的推移，我們需要提升水平並實現這一目標。因此，我們看到與這些 LLM 提供者合作也取得了巨大的進展，不僅將它們整合到我們的技術堆疊中，而且現在真正地一起走向客戶，共同交付 AI 代理。所以對我來說，這才是真正的致勝之道。

And again, it's, for us, super, super important to make our AI foundation world class, and we will stick to the winning formula we have throughout the whole year, and it's about the apps. They give us high-quality data. BDC was a genius move for us. And now with the high-quality data together with the LLMs, we can provide more and more value to our customers, and we see it in the numbers. We see it in the pipeline.

再次強調，對我們來說，打造世界一流的人工智慧基礎架構至關重要，我們將全年堅持我們成功的模式，而這一切都與應用程式有關。他們為我們提供高品質的數據。BDC對我們來說是一個天才之舉。現在，有了高品質的數據和LLM，我們可以為客戶提供越來越多的價值，這一點從數據中就能看出來。我們已經看到它正在研發中。

It's working. And again, on software and cloud, we are having everything what we need also in the infrastructure level without building those data centers.

它奏效了。此外，在軟體和雲端方面，我們在基礎設施層面也擁有了所需的一切，而無需建造資料中心。

Maybe just from a finance numbers point of view. First of all, indeed, Infrastructure as a Service is now at around 1% of our cloud revenues. Now we're on that might stabilize or even go up, but we talk about a completely different path we are taking. And on the competitive benchmarking, I mean, when you look at the Gartner, IDC and so forth, they all put the numbers into US dollars and don't -- I mean, at the risk of stating the obvious, euro constant currency numbers with a strongly depreciating dollar is a different story than dollar.

或許只是從財務數據的角度來看。首先，基礎設施即服務目前約占我們雲端收入的 1%。現在我們正處於一個可能穩定甚至上升的階段，但我們談論的是我們正在採取的完全不同的道路。至於競爭基準測試，我的意思是，當你查看 Gartner、IDC 等機構時，他們都將數字換算成美元，而——我的意思是，冒著說顯而易見的話——以歐元為固定匯率，美元大幅貶值的情況下，情況與以美元為單位的情況截然不同。

If we convert our numbers in dollar, we see even higher numbers than the constant currency number.

如果我們把這些數字換算成美元，我們會發現數字比以固定匯率計算的數字還要高。

So what is the headwind for us than depreciating dollar is, of course, a tailwind for our US competitors. That's the comment I tried to make an interstatement. So I don't quite understand where there is any nervousness -- if you see Cloud we're growing at 31% constant currencies, which is even more in US dollars because of the depreciation of the dollar.

所以，對我們來說的不利因素是什麼？當然，美元貶值對我們的美國競爭對手來說是順風。這就是我試圖表達的觀點。所以我不太明白大家為什麼會感到緊張——如果你看看雲端業務，我們以固定匯率計算的成長率是 31%，而因為美元貶值，以美元計算的成長率甚至更高。

And if you then look at the market data, our competitor data, please name us one who is actually anywhere near that.

如果您再看一下市場數據、我們的競爭對手數據，請問有哪家公司能達到我們的水平？

Jackson Ader, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Jackson Ader，KeyBanc Capital Markets。

Great. Good evening, guys, thanks for taking the questions. I wanted to just go back to the back-end bookings that are happening either in the first half or through the quarter. I mean I think we've address the competitive dynamics. But I'm curious, Christian, you've said that you guys want to focus a little bit on price discipline. And so I'm curious how -- whether that price discipline is impacting the linear of the bookings through the quarter, and then how that price discipline is actually holding up as we get closer and closer to the end of these quarters? Thank you.

偉大的。晚上好，各位，謝謝你們回答問題。我只想回到上半年或整個季度發生的後端預訂情況。我的意思是，我認為我們已經解決了競爭格局的問題。但我很好奇，克里斯蒂安，你說過你們想稍微關註一下價格紀律。因此，我很好奇這種價格紀律是否會影響本季的預訂量線性成長，以及隨著季度末的臨近，這種價格紀律的實際效果如何？謝謝。

Great question. I mean, look, actually -- gives you actually a real life example how our AI works. I asked in the afternoon in valuation of this earnings call, Joule -- with my pipeline with the sentiment, with everything what we have compared to the years before, how we're going to end up the year.

問得好。我的意思是，你看，實際上——這實際上給了你一個我們人工智慧如何運作的真實例子。在下午的財報電話會議上，我問 Joule 公司——考慮到我的銷售管道、市場情緒以及我們與往年相比的所有情況，我們今年的業績會如何。

And Joule, happily enough, gave me pretty confident answer. And what I also got out is when you look at the pipeline and you look at also about what we see for next year, and the business cases we have in the system, it's actually good to see that, it's not only about, again, a lift and shift of a system.

令人欣慰的是，Joule 給了我一個相當肯定的答案。我從中得到的啟示是，當你審視整個專案流程，並展望明年的發展前景，以及我們系統中的商業案例時，你會發現，這不僅僅是系統升級和轉移的問題，這其實是件好事。

It's not about training an LLM module and scale commodity hardware. It's in many, many, I would say, in the predominant number of the deals really about, okay, talking to the C level, there is a cost optimization program. How can we have on the spend side? How can we help on the modern automation side? How can we help on the shop floor automation and moving more to in time, real-time manufacturing with a better prediction of the demand?

這不是關於訓練 LLM 模組和擴展通用硬體的問題。在很多很多交易中，可以說，絕大多數交易都是與高階主管溝通時，都會牽涉到成本優化方案。我們如何在支出方面有所作為？我們在現代自動化方面能提供哪些協助？我們如何幫助企業實現車間自動化，並向更及時、更即時的生產模式轉型，以便更好地預測需求？

And that is also, of course, giving us not so much pricing question. Because this is not only the CIO who is standing up and says, oh, SAP wants to get a deal done. This is the sea level saying, hey, you are part of a business case when it comes to the transformation of the company. No matter if this company has cost pressure, I was looking into new business models with AI, but we are playing in this game. And that is, of course, also then helping us on price protection. As I also mentioned before, on pricing, look at all of the software and cloud.

當然，這也引出了一個不太重要的定價問題。因為不僅僅是資訊長站出來說，SAP 想要達成這筆交易。這是海平面在說：嘿，在公司轉型過程中，你也是商業案例的一部分。無論這家公司是否有成本壓力，我都在探索利用人工智慧的新商業模式，但我們都在參與這場遊戲。當然，這也有助於我們進行價格保護。正如我之前提到的，關於定價，要考慮所有軟體和雲端服務。

I mean, this is mainly a lot of engineering work, what we have done to make this happen. And now it's paying off. But customers are willing to pay also a premium for that, because honestly, these are highly sophisticated capabilities. This is not only about putting an ERP system on a public cloud infrastructure in a data center in a country, these are sometimes much higher standards, which we can fulfill, but customers again, understand that they have to pay a premium for that.

我的意思是，這主要是大量的工程工作，是我們為了實現這一目標所做的一切。現在看來，這一切都得到了回報。但顧客也願意為此支付溢價，因為說實話，這些都是非常複雜的功能。這不僅僅是將 ERP 系統部署到某個國家的資料中心的公有雲基礎架構上，這些有時需要更高的標準，我們能夠滿足這些標準，但客戶也明白，他們必須為此支付額外的費用。

And last but not least, our sales team knows that they -- when they want to make the year and they want to make their quota. There is, of course, a volume included in the quarter, but we also have a pricing element in to it. So we are not just giving deals away in order to hit our numbers. So it always has to be at the right mix of both of volume and pricing.

最後但同樣重要的是，我們的銷售團隊知道，當他們想要完成年度目標並實現銷售配額時，他們必須這樣做。當然，季度中會包含銷量，但我們也把定價因素考慮在內。所以，我們並不是為了完成業績目標而隨意推出優惠活動。所以，銷售量和價格之間必須始終保持適當的平衡。

Yes. And then one piece because Alexandra always reminds me about the questions around the migration credits. We are not taking this lightly, and we are not pushing them out every time. But when a customer says, oh, I have now cost pressure. But I want to do this.

是的。然後還有一件事，因為亞歷珊卓總是提醒我有關移民抵免的問題。我們對此非常重視，也不會每次都把他們趕出去。但當客戶說：“哦，我現在面臨成本壓力。”但我想要這樣做。

I see AI, I see what is can do for me on the business side. But can you help me to make this the business case a bit more attractive then before we discount the exit price at the point of renewal, we then, in this case, where we targeted and then also work with this migration credits, and that's also how we protect our prices on the cloud on the subscription side.

我看到了人工智慧，我看到了它在商業方面能為我帶來什麼。但是，您能否幫我讓這個商業案例更具吸引力？在續訂時降低退出價格之前，我們，在這種情況下，我們針對的是遷移積分，這也是我們如何在訂閱方面保護我們在雲端的價格。

Charlie Brennan, Jefferies.

查理布倫南，傑富瑞集團。

Great. Thanks for taking questions. Can I just ask a high-level question around investment levels. I think we all want you to remain at the front of the curve with AI and leading the industry. And I think we will understand that investment comes before revenue streams. Are you confident that you can fund the required AI investment by reallocating R&D spend and maybe reinvesting the efficiencies that you're driving? Or do you think there's a business case for an acceleration in investment to guarantee that you remain a leader in the space?

偉大的。謝謝回答問題。我可以問一個關於投資水準的比較宏觀的問題嗎？我想我們都希望您在人工智慧領域繼續保持領先地位，並引領產業發展。我認為我們會明白，投資先於收入來源。您是否有信心透過重新分配研發支出，並將目前所取得的效率提升成果再投資，來為所需的 AI 投資提供資金？或者，您認為有必要加快投資，以確保您繼續保持在該領域的領先地位？

And then separately, can I just ask a quick question about the support revenues, it looks like we're fining into the stage where we're seeing an accelerating decline that's obviously an indication that you've got customers going live, which is very healthy. Is there anything you can say about the total cloud backlog moving into the CCB. Does that take some of the in-quarter pressure a way to sign new deals because of that transfer of TCB into CCB?

另外，我可以單獨問一個關於支持收入的問題嗎？看起來我們正進入加速下降的階段，這顯然表明你們的客戶正在上線，這是一個非常健康的現象。關於進入CCB的雲積壓總量，您有什麼要說的嗎？TCB併入CCB是否能減輕季度內簽署新合約的壓力？

Yes. So happy to take the first question on support revenue. Maybe Dominik, you can help me, but we're happy to --

是的。非常樂意回答關於支持收入的第一個問題。或許多明尼克，你能幫幫我，但我們很樂意…--

On the support revenue, yes, I mean it's just the acceleration we've always indicated that will come sooner later. And again, don't look too much at one single quarter. I think it's always a bit noisy for whatever reasons, and there are some impacts and forth from this. But the trend is clearly towards a slight acceleration for the reasons you have highlighted yourself.

關於支援收入，是的，我的意思是，我們一直表示，這種加速成長遲早會到來。再次強調，不要過度專注於某一季的表現。我覺得它總是有點吵鬧，不管是什麼原因，而且會由此產生一些影響。但正如您自己所指出的原因，目前的趨勢顯然是略微加速成長。

And it also speaks for the adoption of our customers in the cloud is the wise journey now continues and even accelerates for many customers we signed a few years back. Now on AI. So when you look at our R&D portfolio, and I will now talk first about Philip and our AI Foundation. When you would ask Philip for his budget request next year is, Christian, I don't need 2,000 more AI developers. I need the best.

這也說明我們的客戶採用雲端技術是明智的選擇，對於我們幾年前簽約的許多客戶來說，這一趨勢還在繼續，甚至正在加速。現在來說說人工智慧。所以，當我們審視我們的研發組合時，我首先要談談菲利普和我們的人工智慧基金會。當你問菲利普明年的預算申請時，他會說：“克里斯蒂安，我不需要再招2000名人工智慧開發人員。”我需要最好的。

I need the PhDs of the Berkley. We are working with MIT, our knowledge are -- it's really about the quality of the people. It's not necessarily about the quantity of the people.

我需要伯克利大學的博士學位。我們正在與麻省理工學院合作，我們的知識——這真的取決於人類的品質。這並不一定與人數多少有關。

And what we are doing, and you had me saying about our research on table data, mean that is for us very important that Joule can talk not only HR and finance. I mean, I'm asking this question this afternoon about our financial with -- prediction for the year. I mean then you need two needs to call it sales, contextual data, unstructured content with finance data. And this is what we are building on the AI Foundation.

我們正在做的事情，正如你剛才提到的，我們對表格數據的研究，意味著對我們來說非常重要的一點是，Joule 不僅可以談論人力資源和財務。我的意思是，我今天下午問這個問題是關於我們今年的財務預測。我的意思是，要稱之為銷售，你需要兩個需求：情境資料、包含財務資料的非結構化內容。這就是我們在人工智慧基礎架構之上所建構的。

Now in the lines of businesses with -- there we already did some work this year. I mean we -- you have seen us, we did another slightly surgical restructuring want with this year, which we ended and now we adjusted here and there with the workforce. That was predominantly in R&D.

現在，在業務領域——我們今年已經在這方面做了一些工作。我的意思是，你們也看到了，我們今年又進行了一次小規模的重組，現在已經結束了，我們對員工隊伍進行了一些調整。那主要是在研發領域。

And what we are doing there is when you see the lift and shift in our portfolio. We have now much less developers on sitting, coding features and functions, but a really solid shift, I would say, into AI developers, data scientists, building the predictive modules on BDC for the intelligent apps, et cetera. And that is actually already happening. And so we will see next year probably a further shift, but not a radical shift because a lot of that has already been done.

而我們正在做的，就是你會看到我們投資組合的提升與轉變。現在，我們不再像以前那樣，有那麼多開發人員坐在那裡編寫功能代碼，而是真正地轉向人工智慧開發人員、資料科學家，在 BDC 上建立智慧應用程式的預測模組等等。而這其實已經發生了。因此，明年我們可能會看到進一步的轉變，但不會發生根本性的轉變，因為許多轉變已經完成。

And overall, the investment into R&D, I mean, when there is one area where I would I'm always open to invest is R&D. But I also talked about applying AI internally. And obviously, more of that is great in the team applying cogeneration tools. So tool for developer, we have [Kita], we are now rolling out a few more -- we have also our own cogeneration tool now as part of Joule studio. So -- and we even see an increase of adoption of 300% for Joule for developer only in the last three months.

總的來說，我對研發的投資，我的意思是，如果要說我最願意投資的領域，那就是研發。但我同時也談到了人工智慧在企業內部的應用。顯然，團隊中越多人運用熱電聯產工具就越好。所以，對於開發者來說，我們有[Kita]，我們現在正在推出更多工具——我們自己的熱電聯產工具現在也作為 Joule studio 的一部分。所以——我們甚至看到，在過去的三個月裡，Joule 在開發者群體中的採用率增加了 300%。

And so also there, we are working on efficiency to -- while on the one hand side, we, of course, have a strong development backlog. We also, of course, see the efficiencies now kicking in with and the lift and the shift in the portfolio is good. The pipeline is good. And we also find the right resources in India, in Singapore parts of the US for -- also for our AI team.

因此，我們也在努力提高效率——一方面，我們當然也面臨大量的開發積壓問題。當然，我們也看到了效率的提升，投資組合的提升與轉變是好事。管道狀況良好。我們也在美國的一些國家（包括印度、新加坡和部分美國地區）找到了合適的資源，以滿足我們人工智慧團隊的需求。

So we are very happy with the quality of the people. And again, I want to underscore for us, it's more about the quality of the people we can onboard in Ohio.

所以我們對員工素質非常滿意。我再次強調，對我們來說，更重要的是我們在俄亥俄州能招募的人才的素質。

Michael Turrin, Wells Fargo.

邁克爾圖林，富國銀行。

Dominik, you mentioned the range of potential outcomes on 4Q CCB. It sounded like from some of Christian's comments, AI is actually pulling rides forward in some cases. So just be curious to hear more around potential swing factors in either direction there. on that metric and any higher level commentary you're willing to share to help size the range of potential outcomes as you're exiting the year on the stronger seasonal bookings quarter? Thanks very much.

Dominik，你提到了第四季度 CCB 可能出現的各種結果。從克里斯蒂安的一些評論來看，人工智慧似乎在某些情況下確實會加速列車運行。所以，我很想了解影響該指標走勢的潛在因素，以及您願意分享的任何更高層次的評論，以便我們更好地評估在旺季預訂量強勁的季度末可能出現的各種結果。非常感謝。

I mean, the obvious number that drives the CCB from now onwards is the net bookings, i.e., the gross bookings and then the churn and on both we want to do as well as we can. And the good thing about the CCB is that the lion's share is really -- if you close by the end of the quarter with a certain kind of deployment time to embark that in your CCB, which you can do that, which is not the case for cloud revenues, of course.

我的意思是，從現在開始，影響 CCB 業績的關鍵指標顯然是淨預訂量，也就是總預訂量，然後是客戶流失率，我們希望在這兩方面都做到最好。CCB 的好處在於，如果你能在季度末之前完成一定時間的部署，以便在 CCB 中啟動，那麼大部分收益實際上就屬於 CCB 的範疇——當然，雲端收入並非如此。

So now I don't -- I can't really not give any more hens than have already been shared on this call. I mean it's just useful to, I think, remind ourselves where we started the year. We started the year at exactly 28.7%. That was the 29% we jumped off, we said we're going to be slightly down, including an effect from M&A, which back then was 1.5 percentage points around the bold and, of course, walk me -- sorry, sorry, smart recruiters was kind of a slight offset. So M&A is around about 1 percentage point in that bridge.

所以現在我不能——我真的不能再不提供比這次通話中已經分享的更多的母雞了。我的意思是，我覺得提醒自己年初的起點很有用。年初時我們的得分剛好是 28.7%。這就是我們最初設定的 29% 的增長率，我們說我們會略微下降，其中包括併購的影響，當時併購的影響大約是 1.5 個百分點，當然，還有那些聰明的招聘人員——抱歉，抱歉，聰明的招聘人員在某種程度上抵消了部分影響。所以，併購活動在這個階段大約佔1個百分點。

And so if you now think where we are post Q3, it actually gives you a little bit of feeling between kind of what happened at beginning of the year, what's there now. I would not look at any individual quarter and read too much into this. But if you think about the kind of three quarters and that we now have under our belt and the gradient there and then depollute that for CCB growth, you see a little bit of a trend. And yes, let's not forget there's still a difficult situation on the transactional business, but that doesn't impact the CCB with more heavy on the cloud revenues.

所以，如果你現在想想第三季之後我們所處的位置，它實際上會讓你對年初發生的事情和現在的情況之間產生一些感覺。我不會單獨分析任何一個季度，然後過度解讀。但如果你想想我們現在已經取得的三個季度的成就，以及那裡的梯度，然後再將其用於 CCB 的成長，你會看到一些趨勢。是的，我們不能忘記交易業務仍然面臨困境，但這不會影響CCB，因為CCB更專注於雲端收入。

And yeah, if you put these numbers into the trajectory and then think about the type of importability Bookings net bookings, it gives you actually this kind of, I'd say, bandwidth, which the numbers need to be gravitating and it is not too wide actually.

是的，如果你把這些數字放到軌跡中，然後考慮可導入性預訂淨預訂量，它實際上會給你提供這種頻寬，我認為，這些數字需要趨向於此，而且實際上並不太寬。

Yeah. And maybe just to get it up, because I know, I mean, how important the CCB will be for the -- at the exit of the year also for the outlook next year. I mean, look, 25%, when I look into the first half year, how much pipeline was stalled, I would say 25% would be probably the most likely scenario.

是的。也許只是為了把它提上日程，因為我知道，我的意思是，CCB 對於今年年底以及明年的前景來說有多重要。我的意思是，你看，25%，當我查看上半年的情況，有多少專案停滯不前時，我認為25%可能是最有可能的情況。

In the meantime, as I mentioned, the sentiment in some of these industries, which are not unsignificant from a size perspective has changed. So now I would be rather disappointed on '25, '26 would be in my eyes, a great result, see me. Look at the base, look at the acquisition impact of -- but we definitely see now that there is a better pipe. And we worked hard on some of these things. So we have it in our hands.

同時，正如我之前提到的，這些行業（從規模上看，其中一些行業相當重要）的情緒已經發生了變化。所以現在我對 2025 年的成績相當失望，在我看來，2026 年的成績才算好，你看。看看基礎情況，看看收購的影響——但我們現在確實看到有一條更好的管道。我們在其中一些方面付出了很多努力。所以，機會就在我們手中。

But again, Q4 has a big swing. It can go in all directions. But right now, if you ask me, and if you look at the pipeline and I've seen it many times, I would rather see 25% as a disappointment. Again, there is a swing, but I'm now definitely more optimistic than I was three months ago when it comes to Q4, which is by far, of course, our biggest in quarter we have in the year.

但第四季波動幅度仍然很大。它可以朝各個方向發展。但就目前而言，如果你問我，如果你看看目前的進度（我已經看過很多次了），我寧願把 25% 的完成率視為令人失望的結果。雖然情況有所波動，但我現在對第四季的前景肯定比三個月前更樂觀，當然，第四季是我們一年中最重要的季度。

Johannes Schaller, Deutsche Bank.

約翰內斯·夏勒，德意志銀行。

Yeah. Good evening. Thanks for letting me on. Christian, I wanted to come back to this comment that you made that you're now hoping to sign maybe some rise deals in Q4 that were initially planned for '26. I guess that's wide rare comment in an industry that also sells quite large multiyear transformational deals that are maybe not that easy to accelerate. So could you assume in a little bit more on the customer discussions you had around that? And really kind of what role your AI offering played here?

是的。晚安.謝謝讓我加入。克里斯蒂安，我想回到你之前提到的評論，你說你現在希望在第四季度簽下一些原本計劃在 2026 年簽下的漲薪協議。我想這在業內算是非常罕見的評論，因為該行業也銷售規模相當大的多年轉型交易，而這些交易可能不容易加速完成。那麼，您能否再詳細談談您與客戶就此進行的討論？那麼，你們的人工智慧產品在這裡究竟扮演了什麼角色呢？

And then just as a quick follow-up, you used to give the AI attach rate on new deals. I may have missed that, but you share that maybe for the third quarter? Thank you.

然後，作為快速的後續步驟，你過去常常給 AI 提供新交易的附加率。我可能錯過了，但您認為第三季可能會有相關消息嗎？謝謝。

I mean, look, to give you a real-life example, I was last week in Japan, customer and the big transformation pressure, BCG pulled us in and actually also share with us a question, can you help not only on now cloud and making sure they get rid of this painful ERP upgrades? But really about -- we're really looking for cost optimization potential. They are looking for a new template on how to monetize their new businesses as they diversify their portfolio.

我的意思是，舉個現實生活中的例子，我上週在日本，客戶面臨著巨大的轉型壓力，波士頓諮詢公司（BCG）把我們拉了進去，實際上還和我們分享了一個問題：你們能否不僅幫助他們實現雲端轉型，還要確保他們擺脫痛苦的ERP升級？但實際上——我們真正想要的是成本優化的潛力。他們正在尋找一種新的模式，以實現新業務的盈利，同時實現投資組合多元化。

And of course, we see that you have the AI use case is here and there on process automation and then also on the CPQ side from more intelligent quoting and pricing. And that is a deal, for example, which I didn't see coming. And there, you see that in the meantime, it's also great that the ecosystem pulls us in and say, hey, this is where SAP is in the meantime, really, really good. And that, of course, helps that we -- to get such deals, again, not because of maintenance, not because of IT. It's really about the business transformation and AI.

當然，我們看到人工智慧的應用案例零星分佈在流程自動化方面，以及在 CPQ 方面，例如更聰明的報價和定價。例如，這筆交易是我始料未及的。而且，同時，生態系統也讓我們意識到，嘿，SAP 目前的發展狀況非常好。當然，這也有助於我們達成這樣的交易──再次強調，這並非因為維護，也並非因為 IT。這其實關乎業務轉型和人工智慧。

And we have some of these deals again, they need to materialize. I mean they came now in. We have it in the pipe, they are looking good, but we see some of them. And that is a good sign.

我們還有一些類似的交易需要落實。我的意思是，他們現在進來了。我們已經開始著手準備了，它們看起來不錯，但我們也看到了一些問題。這是一個好兆頭。

And then last but not least, as I also mentioned AI I mean, half year one, even here when we did the Q2 earnings. I mean back then, I would also say I would have underscored the 25%. And now in the meantime, given the sentiment, what we are seeing, and also, again, having the access to the C level, I'm definitely more optimistic than I was at the Q2 earnings.

最後，正如我之前提到的人工智慧一樣，我的意思是，上半年，甚至在我們發布第二季財報的時候也是如此。我的意思是，那時候，我也會強調25%這個數字。同時，鑑於目前的市場情緒、我們所看到的情況，以及再次有機會接觸到高階主管層，我對第二季財報的樂觀程度肯定比之前高得多。

Great. Thank you, Christian. And this concludes our call for today. Thank you all for joining.

偉大的。謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。今天的通話到此結束。感謝各位的參與。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day.

女士們、先生們，會議到此結束，您可以掛斷電話了。感謝您的參與，祝您有個愉快的一天。