SAP SE (SAP) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, everyone, and welcome. Thank you for joining us. With me today are CEO, Christian Klein; and CFO, Dominik Asam. On this call, we will discuss SAP's first quarter 2025 results. You can find the deck supplementing this call as well as our quarterly statement on our Investor Relations website.

大家晚上好，歡迎光臨。感謝您加入我們。今天和我一起的有執行長 Christian Klein；和財務長 Dominik Asam。在本次電話會議上，我們將討論 SAP 2025 年第一季的業績。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到補充本次電話會議的簡報以及我們的季度聲明。

During this call, we will make forward-looking statements. which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to differ materially. Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our filings with the SEC, including, but not limited to, the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F for 2024.

在本次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述。它們是有關未來事件的預測、推測或其他陳述。這些聲明是基於目前的預期和假設，但受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果和成果有重大差異。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊可以在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中找到，包括但不限於 2024 年 20-F 表年度報告中的「風險因素」部分。

Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS year on year at constant currencies. The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS.

除非另有說明，本次電話會議中的所有數字均為非國際財務報告準則，且成長率和百分點變動均為固定貨幣計算的非國際財務報告準則較去年同期變動。我們提供的非國際財務報告準則財務指標不應被視為替代或優於根據國際財務報告準則編製的財務績效指標。

Before we begin, I'd like to call your attention to our upcoming financial analyst conference, which will take place on May 21 as part of our Sapphire event in Orlando, Florida. If you're interested in joining us in person, please reach out to our Investor Relations team for more information. For those who can't attend on site, a live stream will be provided on our website.

在我們開始之前，我想提請您注意我們即將舉行的金融分析師會議，該會議將於 5 月 21 日作為我們在佛羅裡達州奧蘭多舉行的 Sapphire 活動的一部分舉行。如果您有興趣親自加入我們，請聯絡我們的投資者關係團隊以獲取更多資訊。對於那些無法到現場參加的人，我們將在網站上提供直播。

And with that, over to you, Christian.

現在，就交給你了，克里斯蒂安。

Yes. Thanks, Alexandra, and a warm welcome to everyone on the line. Q1 was a very fast pace start to the year, given the macroeconomic environment, I'm very happy to say that SAP did really well in the quarter. Thanks to our transformation, SAP and that the current phase of the world economy with greater resilient than ever.

是的。謝謝，亞歷珊卓，熱烈歡迎大家的到來。今年第一季的開局非常快，考慮到宏觀經濟環境，我很高興地說 SAP 在本季表現非常好。由於我們的轉型，SAP 和世界經濟的當前階段比以往任何時候都更具彈性。

Our current cloud backlog expanded 29% to EUR18.2 billion in Q1. Our quarterly cloud revenue is now close to the [DEM5 billion], showing a 26% increase. Overall, the share of more predictable revenue is now at 86%. Our very large cloud backlog and higher recurring revenue share will be the foundation for double-digit total revenue growth in 2025 and for many years to come.

我們目前的雲積壓訂單在第一季擴大了 29%，達到 182 億歐元。我們季度的雲端收入現在接近 [50 億德國馬克]，成長了 26%。總體而言，更可預測的收入份額目前為 86%。我們非常龐大的雲積壓訂單和更高的經常性收入份額將成為 2025 年及未來多年兩位數總收入成長的基礎。

Operating profit was up 58% in Q1 and our stellar cloud cost margin improved by 2.6 percentage points to 75%. Thanks to the diligent execution of SAP's transformation, also, our operating profit will grow double-digit in 2025 and the years to come.

第一季營業利潤成長 58%，我們的雲端成本利潤率提高了 2.6 個百分點，達到 75%。由於採用 S​​AP 轉型的認真執行，我們的營業利潤在 2025 年及未來幾年將實現兩位數成長。

Just last week, IDC and Gartner released new reports underlining our market momentum. IDC's update on software market share for the full year 2024 confirms SAP as the worldwide number 1 enterprise application software vendor. And in cloud, according to IDC, SAP experienced the strongest year-over-year growth among the top 10 enterprise application SaaS companies.

就在上週，IDC 和 Gartner 發布了新報告，強調了我們的市場動能。IDC 對 2024 年全年軟體市佔率的更新證實，SAP 是全球第一大企業應用軟體供應商。在雲端運算領域，根據 IDC 的調查，SAP 在十大企業應用 SaaS 公司中實現了最強勁的年成長。

As for Gartner, in their WW Enterprise Software report, SAP is the number 1 by revenue in 2024 for overall ERP. Of course, no one can really predict how the global economy will develop throughout 2025. Without any doubt, uncertainty in the market remains high. However, several factors make us confident that SAP remains on track towards our 2025 outlook ranges.

至於 Gartner，在其 WW 企業軟體報告中，SAP 在 2024 年整體 ERP 收入方面排名第一。當然，沒有人能真正預測2025年全球經濟會如何發展。毫無疑問，市場的不確定性仍然很高。然而，有幾個因素讓我們有信心 SAP 仍能朝著 2025 年的展望目標邁進。

First, I just mentioned S&P's highly resilient business and financial module and our excellent market position. Second, our pipeline for the year continues to look very solid. Third, no other tech company can offer a solution portfolio, which is more relevant in times of new regulations, tariffs and business uncertainty.

首先，我剛才提到了標普高度彈性的商業和金融模組以及我們卓越的市場地位。其次，我們今年的管道看起來仍然非常穩固。第三，沒有其他科技公司能夠提供在新的法規、關稅和商業不確定性時期更相關的解決方案組合。

Our globalization team localizes SAP's portfolio, including solutions like global trade services management. That enables our customers to manage every single global transaction in real time and fully compliant in over 130 countries.

我們的全球化團隊對 SAP 的產品組合進行在地化，包括全球貿易服務管理等解決方案。這使我們的客戶能夠即時管理每一筆全球交易，並完全符合 130 多個國家的規定。

To steer the companies through uncertain times, our customers can run real-time financial simulations based on internal and external data with SAP Business Data Cloud. To adapt the company's business plan to new market realities, SAP's Analytics Cloud and IPP integrate in real-time sales, supply chain, HR spend and financial planning with each other to make cost company decisions fast and in harmony.

為了幫助公司度過不確定的時期，我們的客戶可以使用 SAP Business Data Cloud 根據內部和外部資料執行即時財務模擬。為了使公司的業務計劃適應新的市場現實，SAP 的 Analytics Cloud 和 IPP 將即時銷售、供應鏈、人力資源支出和財務規劃相互整合，以便快速、協調地做出成本公司決策。

And finally, across our portfolio, embedded AI and Joule are boosting the productivity of a company to offset financial pressure. Net-net, this means SAP's portfolio is highly relevant. We can't change external uncertainty, but we can help our customers like no other company to manage those challenges compliant with high agility and empowered by AI.

最後，在我們的產品組合中，嵌入式人工智慧和焦耳正在提高公司的生產力以抵消財務壓力。總體而言，這意味著 SAP 的產品組合具有高度相關性。我們無法改變外部的不確定性，但我們可以像其他公司一樣幫助我們的客戶以高敏捷性和人工智慧賦能的方式應對這些挑戰。

Now let me share a quick summary of the quarter. The figures underline once more that SAP's growth formula is solid. We have done our homework, and we benefit from that. Current cloud backlog kept growing with a very high pace in Q1. Cloud revenue continued to grow strongly even as the base has expanded.

現在讓我簡單分享一下本季的總結。這些數據再次證明 SAP 的成長模式是穩健的。我們已經做好了功課，並且從中受益。目前雲積壓訂單在第一季繼續以非常快的速度成長。儘管基礎已經擴大，但雲端收入仍持續強勁成長。

Total revenue growth moved further into double-digit territory. Operating profit, operating margin and cloud cost margin performance half and will heavily benefit from our transformation program. And again, about half of our cloud order entry were deals that included AI use cases. The deals in Q1 offer a compelling insight into how customers are navigating the current business environment.

總收入成長進一步邁入兩位數。營業利潤、營業利潤率和雲端成本利潤率表現均有下降，並將大大受益於我們的轉型計畫。再次強調，我們大約一半的雲端訂單都是包含人工智慧用例的交易。第一季的交易讓我們對客戶如何應對當前的商業環境有了深刻的了解。

Let me start with an impressive series of major deals in the automotive sector. As you know, the car industry is undergoing an extensive transformation. New business models and competitors are emerging. Cost pressure is increasing. Sustainability continues to be a challenge. And there's the need to adapt to a changing global trade system, including tariffs.

首先，我想介紹一下汽車產業一系列令人印象深刻的重大交易。眾所周知，汽車產業正在經歷一場深刻的變革。新的商業模式和競爭對手正在湧現。成本壓力不斷增加。可持續性仍然是一個挑戰。並且需要適應不斷變化的全球貿易體系，包括關稅。

How does the industry deal with these challenges? As our customer wins indicate, auto companies rely on SAP's industry best practices, solutions and tools to transform their value chains by embracing the cloud and AI.

業界如何應對這些挑戰？正如我們的客戶所表明的那樣，汽車公司依靠 SAP 的行業最佳實踐、解決方案和工具，透過採用雲端和人工智慧來轉變其價值鏈。

In Q4, as you remember, Robert Bosch and Schaeffler signed up for their Wise Journeys, and MAHLE went live. Now in Q1, others from the who is who in the industry joined the ranks. Hyundai, Kia and Mustang as well as the automotive supplier Webasto.

大家還記得，在第四季度，羅伯特·博世和舍弗勒簽署了他們的“智慧之旅”計劃，而馬勒也開始上線。現在到了第一季，其他業內知名人士也加入了這一行列。現代、起亞和野馬以及汽車供應商 Webasto。

Customers in other sectors rely as well on SAP's business transformation offering Wise. in Q1, Hugo Boss, Tyson Foods and the Chemical Group, [science glow] and Japan Railway. And in the public sector, the German Federal Employment Agency Bundesagentur für Arbeit as well as the police force in the state of Brandenburg decided to put their trust in SAP solutions and sovereign cloud technology.

其他產業的客戶也依賴 SAP 的業務轉型產品 Wise。第一季度，Hugo Boss、泰森食品和化學集團、[science glow] 和日本鐵路。在公共部門，德國聯邦就業局 Bundesagentur für Arbeit 以及勃蘭登堡州的警察部隊決定信賴 SAP 解決方案和主權雲技術。

For all customers on their wise journeys, we have been accelerating time to value while reducing the implementation costs of SAP projects with excellent AI tools, such as Joule for developer, tool for consultants and business transformation tools like Signavio, LeanIX and WalkMe.

對於所有踏上智慧之旅的客戶，我們一直在透過優秀的 AI 工具（例如開發人員的 Joule、顧問導向的工具以及 Signavio、LeanIX 和 WalkMe 等業務轉型工具）加快價值實現時間並降低 SAP 專案的實施成本。

As for core with SAP, two such of our deals in Q1 were net new customers, which underlines the attractiveness of our offering for fast-growing companies in the mid-market. One example is Gymshark, a fitness brand, who selected us over a competitor. What convinced them to choose SAP was the scalability and Board functionality of our suite offering as well as our industry-specific solutions for retail. Other examples include the sustainable steel company, Staker, as well as VFS, a global provider of Visa Application Services selecting our end-to-end business suite applications.

至於與 SAP 的核心合作，我們在第一季的兩筆交易都是淨新增客戶，這凸顯了我們的產品對於中階市場快速成長公司的吸引力。其中一個例子是健身品牌 Gymshark，他們選擇了我們而不是競爭對手。他們之所以選擇 SAP，是因為我們套件產品的可擴充性和董事會功能，以及我們針對零售業的產業特定解決方案。其他範例包括永續鋼鐵公司 Staker 以及選擇我們端到端業務套件應用程式的 Visa 申請服務的全球提供者 VFS。

Finally, some Q1 customer examples from our lines of businesses. Supply chain management, we won KION Group, a global leader in supply chain and logistics solutions. Human capital management, we won the travel company booking and APCO Services, the largest electricity provider in Switzerland went live on SuccessFactors.

最後，我們來列舉一些來自我們業務線的第一季客戶案例。供應鏈管理方面，我們贏得了全球供應鏈和物流解決方案領導者凱傲集團的青睞。人力資本管理方面，我們贏得了旅遊公司預訂，瑞士最大的電力供應商 APCO Services 也採用了 SuccessFactors。

In Business Networks, we won the media company, Times Group India and the mining firm Aman Mineral. And a chocolate company, Alfred Ritter, home to the famous brand Ritter Sport celebrated a go-live in our network.

在商業網路領域，我們贏得了媒體公司時代集團印度公司和礦業公司阿曼礦業公司。巧克力公司 Alfred Ritter（著名品牌 Ritter Sport 的母公司）也在我們的網路中進行了上線慶祝。

Last but not least, BASF coatings went live in Q1 on our sustainability portfolio. All these customer stories show how we are winning with our modular business suite and our transformation offerings wise and core with SAP, capturing every customer size and industry.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，巴斯夫塗料於第一季在我們的永續發展產品組合中上線。所有這些客戶案例都表明，我們如何憑藉模組化業務套件和 SAP 核心轉型產品贏得勝利，從而滿足各種規模和行業的客戶需求。

Let me now summarize what happened in Q1 in terms of product innovation, commercials and simplification. First, let me start with product innovation. In February, we presented one of SAP's most exciting innovations ever and the greatest opportunities since Wise, SAP Business Data Cloud. Business Data Cloud is the new center of gravity for business data. It unifies and governs all data, SAP and non-SAP, structure and unstructured.

現在讓我總結一下第一季在產品創新、商業和簡化方面發生的事情。首先，我先從產品創新說起。二月份，我們推出了 SAP 迄今為止最令人興奮的創新之一以及自 Wise 以來最偉大的機會——SAP Business Data Cloud。商業資料雲是商業資料的新重心。它統一並管理所有數據，包括 SAP 和非 SAP、結構化和非結構化數據。

It builds a strong semantical layer with the context, connections and meaning of data. And thanks to our new partnership with Databricks, Business Data Cloud will become the number 1 offering in the data and analytics market.

它利用資料的上下文、聯繫和含義來建立強大的語義層。感謝我們與 Databricks 的新合作，Business Data Cloud 將成為資料和分析市場上的頭號產品。

Thanks to the Business Data Cloud's strong value proposition, the pipeline for the coming quarters is building up very nicely. In Q1 alone, we closed 20 deals, including Kion Group; (inaudible), the pharma company farming and the metals manufacturer Tibnor. Business Data Cloud is not only groundbreaking in how it brings together data. It is also a pillar for high-performing end-to-end AI agents. Why? Because it takes three things to build totally powerful AI agents.

得益於商業數據雲強大的價值主張，未來幾季的通路建設進展順利。光是第一季度，我們就完成了 20 筆交易，其中包括 Kion Group；（聽不清楚）、製藥公司農業和金屬製造商 Tibnor。商業資料雲不僅在資料整合方式上具有突破性。它也是高效能端到端 AI 代理的支柱。為什麼？因為建立完全強大的人工智慧代理需要三樣東西。

First, acts to a harmonized data layer with strong semantics, that's SAP's Business Data Cloud; second, a smart AI stack tying on the best in AI modules and technologies, that is SAP Business AI. Third, fully integrated applications, so agents can cover business processes end to end. That is our SAP business suite.

首先，作用於一個具有強語意的統一資料層，即SAP的業務資料雲；第二，結合最優秀的AI模組和技術的智慧AI堆疊，即SAP Business AI。第三，完全整合的應用程序，因此代理商可以端到端地覆蓋業務流程。那是我們的 SAP 業務套件。

SAP is the only company to have all three of these pillars in place. And that puts us in a unique and very strong position to win in the Agentic AI space. When we work with customers, AI adoption is more than a onetime event. It's a journey. Take, for example, Standard Chartered Bank. They went live with the first AI use cases in success factors. They then released Joule to over 80,000 employees and are leveraging the gen AI hub.

SAP 是唯一一家同時具備這三大支柱的公司。這使我們在 Agentic AI 領域佔據獨特且非常有利的地位。當我們與客戶合作時，人工智慧的採用不僅僅是一次性事件。這是一趟旅程。以渣打銀行為例。他們在成功因素中推出了第一個 AI 用例。隨後，他們向超過 80,000 名員工發布了 Joule，並利用了 gen AI 中心。

With all our AI customers, we systematically drive adoption from the first implementations of use cases, all the way through to Agentic AI. At Sapphire, we will make exciting announcements about our AI capabilities. Continuing now on the topic of innovation. We are also evolving our commercials. We are updating our rights offering with enhanced packages.

對於我們所有的 AI 客戶，我們都會系統地推動從用例的首次實施到 Agentic AI 的採用。在 Sapphire，我們將發布有關我們的 AI 能力的令人興奮的公告。現在繼續討論創新的話題。我們也在改進我們的商業廣告。我們正在更新我們的權利發行，並提供增強包。

They now include the solutions for business transformation management, solutions well integrated into our business suite portfolio to accelerate time to value and cut SAP project costs. And with the flexible cloud [addendum], we make it easier for customers to switch from private to public cloud within their existing contracts.

它們現在包括業務轉型管理解決方案，這些解決方案很好地整合到我們的業務套件產品組合中，以加快價值實現時間並降低 SAP 專案成本。透過靈活的雲端[附錄]，我們讓客戶更容易在現有合約內從私有雲切換到公有雲。

Besides innovation, we continue to focus on our own productivity in these turbulent times. And we are transforming the comply along the way. We are fully on track to deliver the internal AI efficiencies for this year. Let me share some examples with you. Our consultants save up to 90 minutes per day with Joule for consults.

除了創新之外，在動盪的時期，我們繼續關注自身的生產力。我們正在不斷改變這一進程。我們正全力以赴實現今年的內部人工智慧效率。讓我與你們分享一些例子。我們的顧問每天透過 Joule 可節省高達 90 分鐘的諮詢時間。

Joule helps them, for instance, to find and use best practices, analyze unfamiliar code and the end suboptimal design and implementation notes. And with AI tools such as Joule for developers, our coders are 30% more productive, accelerating our innovation pace.

例如，Joule 幫助他們找到並使用最佳實踐、分析不熟悉的程式碼以及最終不理想的設計和實作說明。借助 Joule 等面向開發人員的 AI 工具，我們的編碼人員的工作效率提高了 30%，從而加快了我們的創新步伐。

Finally, in addition to the internal use of AI, we are rolling out a standardized and automated cloud contract starting this quarter, reducing the time from the quote to provisioning a system to under 24 hours. All in all, our productivity gains help us to decouple top line growth and costs. They also give us flexibility to hire less than originally planned. And when we hire we can focus on growth areas with targeted [job] profiles, for example, in AI.

最後，除了內部使用人工智慧之外，我們還將從本季度開始推出標準化和自動化的雲端合同，將從報價到配置系統的時間縮短至 24 小時以內。總而言之，生產力的提高幫助我們將收入成長與成本脫鉤。他們也給我們靈活性，可以僱用比原計劃更少的人員。當我們招募時，我們可以專注於具有針對性[工作]概況的成長領域，例如人工智慧。

Now let me conclude. We delivered a strong Q1. Customers seek our advice and solutions in uncertain times. And we have laid a very strong foundation for a resilient company, and we will continue to do so through product innovation, simplification and an even better go-to-market setup. It is difficult to make projections for the entire year, but all the aspects I just mentioned make us confident for the longer term.

現在讓我來總結一下。我們第一季業績表現強勁。客戶在不確定的時期尋求我們的建議和解決方案。我們已經為一家有韌性的公司奠定了非常堅實的基礎，我們將繼續透過產品創新、簡化和更好的市場佈局來做到這一點。對全年做出預測很困難，但我剛才提到的所有方面都讓我們對長期前景充滿信心。

We are in the right place. We are doing the wide things, and this will pay off. At Sapphire May, we will go deeper into these areas and look at the next chapters of SAP's growth story. I would be delighted to see you all there.

我們來對地方了。我們正在做廣泛的事情，這將帶來回報。在 Sapphire May 上，我們將深入探討這些領域，並展望 SAP 成長故事的下一章。我很高興在那裡見到你們。

And with that, over to you, Dominik.

現在，就交給你了，多明尼克。

Thank you very much, Christian, and thank you all for joining us this evening. We kick off 2025 on a high note, driven by the continued acceleration of total revenue and a whooping increase in operating profit in the first quarter.

非常感謝你，克里斯蒂安，也感謝大家今晚加入我們。在總收入持續加速成長和第一季營業利潤大幅成長的推動下，我們以高昂的姿態開啟了 2025 年。

Our current cloud backlog remains healthy despite the volatile and challenging macro environment. This performance reflects the strength of our strategy, the momentum of the cloud ERP suite and the impact of our strict cost discipline, which renders our profitability and free cash flow more resilient.

儘管宏觀環境動盪且充滿挑戰，但我們目前的雲積壓訂單仍保持健康。這一業績反映了我們策略的實力、雲端 ERP 套件的發展動能以及嚴格的成本控制的影響，這使我們的獲利能力和自由現金流更具彈性。

With the 2024 transformation program now concluded, we are well positioned to execute on our priorities this year, including focused investments as we expand our suite first AI-first approach, throughout our portfolio.

隨著 2024 年轉型計畫的結束，我們已準備好執行今年的優先事項，包括在整個產品組合中擴展套件優先 AI 優先方法的重點投資。

Across industries and organizations of all sizes, from the world's largest enterprises to growing businesses looking to scale quickly, we continue to see high customer engagement as companies turn to us for end-to-end business transformation.

在各種行業和各種規模的組織中，從世界上最大的企業到尋求快速擴張的成長型企業，隨著公司轉向我們進行端到端業務轉型，我們繼續看到高客戶參與度。

Now let me provide more details around our financial highlights. Current cloud backlog reached EUR18.2 billion, up 29%. Cloud revenue grew by 26% year-on-year, supported by the strong performance of the cloud ERP suite, which maintained its high growth momentum with a 33% increase in Q1. It accounted for 85% of total cloud revenue in the first quarter, underlying its strengthening position as a key contributor to our growth.

現在讓我提供有關我們財務亮點的更多細節。目前雲端運算積壓訂單達182億歐元，成長29%。雲端營收年增26%，這得益於雲端ERP套件的強勁表現，該套件在第一季保持了高成長勢頭，成長了33%。它佔第一季雲端總收入的 85%，鞏固了其作為我們成長關鍵貢獻者的地位。

As Cloud bookings were again very back-end loaded in the fourth quarter of last year, some cloud contracts, which entered current cloud backlog as of year-end 2024 were provisioned only later during the first quarter, so they will only be visible in cloud revenues for a full quarter in Q2. And the deterioration in macroeconomic conditions continue to weigh on transactional cloud revenues. Software licenses turned out to be surprisingly resilient and decreased by only 10%. But given that Q1 tends to be a small quarter for software licenses, I would caution you not to extrapolate too much from that.

由於去年第四季雲端預訂量再次大幅下降，一些截至 2024 年底進入當前雲端積壓的雲端合約在第一季後期才被調配，因此它們只能在第二季的整個季度的雲端收入中顯示出來。宏觀經濟狀況的惡化繼續對交易雲收入造成壓力。軟體許可證顯示出驚人的彈性，僅下降了 10%。但考慮到第一季對於軟體授權來說往往是一個較小的季度，我提醒您不要據此進行過多推斷。

Finally, total revenue came in at EUR9 billion, up 11%. So now let's take a brief look at our regional performance. In the first quarter, SAP's cloud revenue performance was particularly strong in APJ and EMEA and robust in the Americas region. Brazil, Chile, Germany, India, Italy, South Korea and Spain had outstanding performances, while Canada, China, France, Japan, Singapore and the US were particularly strong.

最終，總收入達到 90 億歐元，成長 11%。現在讓我們簡單回顧一下我們的地區表現。第一季度，SAP 的雲端營收表現在 APJ 和 EMEA 地區尤為強勁，在美洲地區也表現強勁。巴西、智利、德國、印度、義大利、韓國和西班牙表現突出，而加拿大、中國、法國、日本、新加坡和美國表現尤為強勁。

Now moving down to the income statement. Our non-IFRS cloud gross margin for the quarter continued its upward trend and expand by 2.6 percentage points to 75%, and driving cloud gross profit up by 30%. IFRS operating profit increased to EUR2.3 billion in the quarter, positively impacted by a restructuring expense decline of EUR2.2 billion in the context of the 2024 transformation program.

現在轉到損益表。本季度，我們非國際財務報告準則下的雲毛利率延續上升趨勢，擴大2.6個百分點至75%，帶動雲毛利潤成長30%。本季度，國際財務報告準則下的營業利潤增至 23 億歐元，這受到 2024 年轉型計畫背景下重組費用下降 22 億歐元的正面影響。

In the first quarter, non-IFRS operating profit was up 58% to EUR2.5 billion, way above the 26% to 30% growth rate, we have guided for the full fiscal year 2025, a highly welcome head start to derisk our bottom line guidance and times of environment, which I trust you would all agree has become much more risky.

第一季度，非國際財務報告準則下的營業利潤成長 58%，達到 25 億歐元，遠高於我們對 2025 財年全年 26% 至 30% 的成長率預期，這是一個非常受歡迎的開端，可以降低我們的底線預期和環境風險，我相信你們都會同意，現在的風險已經大大增加。

Both IFRS and non-IFRS operating profit growth benefited from the operational efficiencies realized through successful execution of the 2024 transformation program. The IFRS effective tax rate in Q1 was 27.2% and the non-IFRS tax rate was 29.4%. Operating cash flow in the first quarter was up by 31% to EUR3.8 billion, and free cash flow increased by 36% to EUR3.6 billion. The increase was mainly attributable to the higher operating profit.

IFRS 和非 IFRS 營業利潤的成長均得益於透過成功執行 2024 年轉型計畫而實現的營運效率。第一季IFRS有效稅率為27.2%，非IFRS有效稅率為29.4%。第一季經營現金流成長31%至38億歐元，自由現金流成長36%至36億歐元。成長主要歸因於營業利潤增加。

Finally, basic IFRS earnings per share increased to EUR1.52 and non-IFRS earnings per share increased to EUR1.44. So moving on to the outlook. As you've likely seen in the quarterly statement published a little bit earlier today, we decided to leave our 2025 outlook across all metrics unchanged.

最後，基本 IFRS 每股收益增至 1.52 歐元，非 IFRS 每股收益增至 1.44 歐元。接下來我們來談談展望。正如您可能在今天早些時候發布的季度聲明中看到的那樣，我們決定維持所有指標的 2025 年展望不變。

While our pipeline remains healthy, conversion rates could be negatively affected by a further deceleration of current trade disputes. Needless to say that the rapid unwinding of decades of productivity gains driven by the benefits of globalization in the context of an escalating trade war would likely result in a severe global recession.

儘管我們的管道仍然健康，但當前貿易爭端的進一步減緩可能會對轉換率產生負面影響。毋庸置疑，在貿易戰不斷升級的背景下，數十年來全球化帶來的生產力成長將迅速消退，很可能會導致嚴重的全球經濟衰退。

I want to stress that our outlook is not based on such an adverse scenario, but rather assumes conversion rates consistent with prior quarters and years. In light of the risk of escalation, we remain fully focused on disciplined execution and safeguarding both our bottom line and free cash flow by prudent cost management and other elements within our control.

我想強調的是，我們的展望並非基於這種不利的情景，而是假設轉換率與前幾季和幾年一致。鑑於升級的風險，我們將繼續全力專注於嚴格執行，並透過審慎的成本管理和我們控制範圍內的其他因素來保障我們的底線和自由現金流。

In summary, Q1 reflects a strong start to the year, highlighted by continued total revenue acceleration and standout profitability. The momentum we continue to see in the cloud ERP suite provides a certain degree of visibility and reinforces our confidence in SAP's long-term success. As macro uncertainty persists, we are more focused than ever on disciplined execution, protecting our bottom line and free cash flow throughout the remainder of the year.

總而言之，第一季反映了今年強勁的開局，突出表現是總收入持續加速成長和獲利能力突出。我們在雲端 ERP 套件中繼續看到的勢頭提供了一定程度的可見性，並增強了我們對 SAP 長期成功的信心。由於宏觀不確定性持續存在，我們比以往任何時候都更加重視嚴格的執行，保護我們在今年剩餘時間內的底線和自由現金流。

Before we move on to the Q&A, I would like to say that we are very much looking forward to welcoming as many as you as possible to our financial analyst conference in May. As Alexandra mentioned already in Christian too, it will take place again in conjunction with Sapphire in Orlando. It is a unique opportunity to do some serious tire kicking of our solution portfolio and ecosystem and the team and I are very much looking forward to meeting you there in person.

在我們進入問答環節之前，我想說，我們非常期待在五月的金融分析師會議上歡迎盡可能多的您參加。正如亞歷山德拉在《克里斯蒂安》中提到的那樣，它將與奧蘭多的 Sapphire 一起再次舉行。這是對我們的解決方案組合和生態系統進行認真檢驗的獨特機會，我和團隊非常期待在那裡與您親自會面。

All right. Thank you, Dominic. And with that, we will now take your questions. I would like to kindly remind you to only ask one question when prompted. Operator, please open the line.

好的。謝謝你，多米尼克。現在，我們將回答大家的提問。我想善意地提醒您，當被提示時只問一個問題。接線員，請接通線路。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Michael Briest, UBS.

瑞銀集團的麥可·布里斯特。

Thank you. I guess I'll start with a question on sort of current trading. Some other companies have talked about some disruption at the end of the quarter, obviously we're nearly through April as well. You said your assumption is that historical close rates continue, is that valid given what you've seen in the last few weeks?

謝謝。我想我將從一個有關當前交易的問題開始。其他一些公司也談到了本季末的一些混亂情況，顯然四月也快結束了。您說您的假設是歷史收盤價會持續下去，根據您過去幾週看到的情況，這是否有效？

I know you called out the automotive examples of success. Is there anything else you can give us to underpin the confidence on the cloud revenue guidance, especially given the transactional business, as you mentioned, Dominik?

我知道您列舉了汽車產業的成功案例。多明尼克，您還能告訴我們什麼來增強我們對雲端收入指引的信心，特別是考慮到交易業務？

Yes, Michael, I can start, and then please, Dominik comment as well. I mean, look, just the travel to the United States, I was in Australia, I was in Korea, Seoul. And when you talk to our customers, also after all the new regulations hit the market, I mean, the conversation really send us around how can we help to gain resiliency in supply chain? How can we help to manage tariffs? All these, especially the multinationals, they have to on a compliant business everywhere in the world.

是的，邁克爾，我可以開始了，然後邀請多明尼克也發表評論。我的意思是，你看，我只是去過美國，也去過澳大利亞，也去過韓國首爾。當您與我們的客戶交談時，在所有新法規進入市場之後，我的意思是，談話確實讓我們思考如何幫助獲得供應鏈的彈性？我們如何幫助管理關稅？所有這些，特別是跨國公司，他們必須在世界各地開展合規的業務。

On the sourcing side, how can we pick the white suppliers given the tariffs which are in place. And then obviously, what can we do on -- with the business data cloud you just released, which landed extremely well in the market to simulate and to adjust our plans to the new market reality.

在採購方面，考慮到現行的關稅，我們如何選擇白色供應商。然後顯然，我們可以做什麼——利用您剛剛發布的業務數據雲，它在市場上表現得非常好，可以模擬並根據新的市場現實調整我們的計劃。

So that actually gives me the confidence. I mean, Michael, what of course also came up is the cost on SAP project. And there, we are targeting also with Joule for Developer, Joule for Consultants, which are also again we're getting really, really good feedback about how can we cut costs in implementing our business suite, how can we accelerate the faster time to value.

這其實給了我信心。我的意思是，邁克爾，當然也牽涉到 SAP 專案的成本。此外，我們也針對開發人員和顧問推出了 Joule，我們也收到了非常好的回饋，關於如何在實施業務套件時削減成本，如何加快價值實現速度。

These are not the days where you can come to a customer and lay down a several hundred million dollar project without having also some instant value in the business case. And that actually has resonated really well in the last weeks.

如今，你不可能找到客戶並簽訂價值數億美元的項目，而又無法在商業案例中產生即時價值。事實上，這一觀點在過去幾週內已經引起了強烈反響。

The pipeline also for the year, as I mentioned, remains intact. We really see that we have solid, really good pipeline for the year. And so far, also not in April, we have not yet seen that there is any deterioration of conversion rates in the pipeline. But of course, Michael, I mean who has a crystal ball these days. We are watching the geopolitics very closely. And of course, also observe what is coming.

正如我所提到的，今年的管道仍然完好無損。我們確實看到，我們今年擁有穩固、非常好的管道。到目前為止，包括四月在內，我們還沒有看到通路中的轉換率有任何下降。但是當然，邁克爾，我的意思是現在誰有水晶球。我們正在密切關注地緣政治。當然，也要觀察接下來會發生什麼事。

Ben Castillo, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的本‧卡斯蒂略 (Ben Castillo)。

Good evening. Thanks very much for taking my question. Just on the cloud revenue growth decelerate a little from what we saw at Q4. How much of that deceleration was caused by you mentioned the later timing some power deals that you signed in Q4? How much of that came from maybe some delayed ramp-ups from some deals or how much came from the transactional apps? If you could just help us break apart, that's slight deceleration.

晚安.非常感謝您回答我的問題。光是雲端運算營收成長就比第四季略有放緩。您提到的這種減速在多大程度上是由於您在第四季度簽署的一些電力交易的時間較晚造成的？其中有多少可能是因為一些交易的延遲增加，或者有多少是來自交易應用程式？如果你能幫助我們分開，那就是輕微的減速。

And I guess as a follow-up, you need a bit of an acceleration here to get back to that guidance growth range for cloud revenue, when can we expect that to come back? Is that something that you can come back in Q2 as those Q4 deals start to ramp up? Or is that something that needs to happen later in the year? Thank you.

我想作為後續問題，您需要稍微加速一下才能回到雲端收入的指導成長範圍，我們什麼時候可以預期它會回來？隨著第四季度交易開始增多，您是否能在第二季度再次推出這項功能？或者這是需要在今年稍後發生的事情？謝謝。

Yes. Maybe this is also a good opportunity to also answer the transactional revenue question, which has been also raised in the prior question. So indeed, the transactional revenues in Q1 were back to a slight decline. You recall in Q4, we were actually going up a little bit, slightly up. So indeed here, given that this is the most exposed business to macro, not surprisingly, it has also seen a relatively weak performance in the first quarter.

是的。也許這也是一個很好的機會來回答交易收入問題，這個問題在先前的問題中也已經提出過。因此，第一季的交易收入確實又略有下降。您記得在第四季度，我們的成長實際上有一點上升，略有上升。因此，考慮到這是受宏觀影響最大的業務，毫不奇怪，它在第一季的表現也相對較弱。

On the back-end loading of the transactions, there is a certain lead time for provisioning these cloud deals. So it's very clear that when you embark these deals in the backlog at the very end of the quarter in Q4 that maybe January, February, they are not fully effective in revenues, and you then have a step-up in Q2 when it's full year -- full quarter effective. So that's a meaningful delta, has been a little bit of that effect also seen in Q1 of prior years, but not to the same extent of this year.

在交易的後端加載中，需要一定的準備時間來提供這些雲端交易。因此很明顯，當你在第四季末（可能是一月、二月）開始處理這些積壓的交易時，它們對收入並沒有完全產生影響，而當你在第二季度，也就是全年，整個季度的收入就會增加。所以這是一個有意義的增量，在前幾年的第一季也出現了一點這種影響，但程度不如今年。

We do think that also in Q2, we'll see a certain acceleration again because the comps are frankly easier. Let's not forget that any single quarter in cloud revenue can always be a little bit distorted by what happened in the prior year's quarter in terms of maybe some debookings. So for instance, in Q2 last year, we had a hit with a customer that went into a financial distress situation that we stopped booking cloud revenues on. And that, of course, makes them the comps for Q2 easier.

我們確實認為，在第二季度，我們將再次看到一定的加速，因為坦白說，比較起來更容易。我們不要忘記，任何一個季度的雲端運算收入總是會受到去年同期情況的影響，例如可能出現一些取消預訂的情況。例如，去年第二季度，我們遭遇了一位客戶的打擊，該客戶陷入了財務困境，我們停止了對該客戶的雲端收入預訂。當然，這使得它們更容易成為第二季的競爭對手。

So still we believe that the CCB is a good indicator of how the next four quarters will look. It's the kind of contractually committed rolling four quarters ahead. Yes, we have to take the haircut from transaction revenues, which is maybe a little bit higher than what we had initially expected.

因此，我們仍然相信，CCB 是未來四個季度經濟狀況的良好指標。這是一種透過合約承諾提前四個季度完成的政策。是的，我們必須從交易收入中扣除一些，這可能比我們最初預期的要高一點。

And then it also leaves a question about the macro, which we discussed in the prior question. I mean needless to say that before the upper half of our guidance range to materialize our cloud revenues, we would need to see a pretty benign outcome of these trade disputes that actually, we would need to see some resolutions on these disputes quite quickly and to a large extent, in an adverse scenario, of course, it's anyone's guess, as Christian mentioned, what type of GDP impact that might be. And I think also that is premature now to try to forecast.

然後它也留下了一個關於巨集的問題，我們在上一個問題中討論過。我的意思是，不用說，在我們實現雲端收入的指導範圍的上半部分之前，我們需要看到這些貿易爭端有一個相當良性的結果，實際上，我們需要很快看到這些爭端得到一些解決，當然，在很大程度上，在不利的情況下，正如克里斯蒂安提到的，任何人都無法猜測這可能會對 GDP 產生什麼樣的影響。我還認為現在嘗試預測還為時過早。

So that is a little bit the color I want to give around that. So not an easy environment. But as Christian mentioned, we are solidly on track. The fundamental pillars of our growth are stable, and customers are grappling for productivity gains and trying to reduce costs with our Joules.

這就是我想要賦予它的一點色彩。所以這不是一個輕鬆的環境。但正如克里斯蒂安所說，我們正穩步前進。我們成長的基本支柱是穩定的，客戶正在努力提高生產力並試圖透過我們的焦耳來降低成本。

Toby Ogg, JP Morgan.

摩根大通的托比·奧格。

Yeah, hi, and thanks for the question. Perhaps just on the current cloud backlog. So 29% in the quarter stable versus the 29% exit rate and tracking -- I know it's just Q1, but tracking above the current full year guidance for a slight deceleration. Has it -- has the current cloud backlog tracked above your expectations in Q1? And If so, what was the driver of that?

是的，你好，謝謝你的提問。也許只是當前的雲積壓。因此，本季 29% 的穩定率與 29% 的退出率和追蹤率相比——我知道這只是第一季度，但追蹤率高於當前全年略有減速的預期。目前雲積壓訂單在第一季是否超出了您的預期？如果是的話，原因是什麼？

And then, could you also just give us a sense for what you're seeing under the surface in the backlog, particularly in March and April across various end markets and customer groups? Are you seeing any different dynamics because of all the tariff uncertainty, with some verticals potentially holding back a bit, but others perhaps moving a bit quicker? Or are you seeing very similar trends to what you've been seeing over the past few quarters despite all the incremental tariff uncertainty?

然後，您能否讓我們了解一下積壓訂單背後的情況，特別是 3 月和 4 月各個終端市場和客戶群的情況？由於所有關稅的不確定性，您是否看到了任何不同的動態，一些垂直行業可能會有所阻礙，但其他行業可能會發展得更快一些？或者，儘管存在增量關稅的不確定性，您是否看到了與過去幾季非常相似的趨勢？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay. Maybe on the CCB, it was actually expected because the same technical effect I described with the provisioning lead times is also affecting CCB. If you have these late quarter and closings, they are, of course, in the backlog. But for the CCB, they might not be for 12 months in the backlog, but maybe for 10 or 11. And then when you roll it forward to end of March, they are actually in the backlog for a full 12 months plus the ramps included in these deals.

好的。也許在 CCB 上，這實際上是可以預料到的，因為我描述的與配置前置時間相同的技術效果也影響 CCB。如果您有這些季度末和結帳事項，那麼它們當然屬於積壓事項。但對 CCB 來說，積壓的案件可能不是 12 個月，而是 10 或 11 個月。然後，當你將其提前到三月底時，他們實際上已經積壓了整整12個月，再加上這些交易中包含的坡道。

So that was clearly something we'd expected, so it's a little bit kind of an artifact, I'd say, from the back end loading of the seasonality of Q4, which will normalize. So I'm -- we're still fully in line with the guidance we've given to a slight deceleration. Also, recall that towards the end of the year, the CCB boost by the acquisition of WalkMe will also fade out. So we're very much on track, I'd say.

所以這顯然是我們所預料到的，所以我認為這有點像是第四季度季節性後端加載的產物，它會正常化。因此，我們仍然完全符合我們給出的略微減速的指導。另外，回想一下，到今年年底，收購 WalkMe 給 CCB 帶來的提振也將逐漸消退。所以我想說，我們的進展非常順利。

Maybe on the industry question, do we see differences now in the industry, how the pipeline and the conversion rates now unfold.

也許關於產業問題，我們現在是否看到產業的差異，通路和轉換率現在如何展開。

No, you see all that in Q1, we signed many auto companies. And to Dominic's point, in these conversations with the auto companies, I mean, oftentimes the business case is built around supply chain, it's built around productivity with AI. It's also about the change of the business module around order to cash. So it's not right to say, these industries which are maybe hit it hard now short term by tariffs, now buy less software. No, we are not seeing this correlation yet in the pipeline.

不，你在第一季看到了，我們簽了許多汽車公司。至於多明尼克所說的，在與汽車公司的對話中，我的意思是，商業案例往往是圍繞著供應鏈、圍繞人工智慧的生產力而建立的。這也是關於訂單到現金的業務模組的改變。因此，這些行業可能在短期內受到關稅的嚴重打擊，因此購買的軟體減少，這種說法是不對的。不，我們還沒有在管道中看到這種關聯。

Charlie Brennan, Jefferies.

查理布倫南，傑富瑞集團。

Hi, there. Thanks for taking my question. Understandably, a lot of questions there on the macro and visibility in the business, but can we just touch on product innovation for a moment? There's obviously a lot of focus on the business data cloud. Can you just give us a very simple explanation to how that differs from the original SAP Datasphere? And how do we think about that being incremental to what you're doing as opposed to just a rebranding of original data strategy? Thank you.

你好呀。感謝您回答我的問題。可以理解的是，人們對業務的宏觀和可見性有很多疑問，但我們能否暫時談談產品創新？顯然，商業數據雲受到了廣泛關注。您能否給我們簡單解釋一下它與原始 SAP Datasphere 有何不同？我們如何看待這對您正在做的事情來說是漸進式的，而不是僅僅對原始資料策略進行重塑？謝謝。

Happy to do so, Charles. I mean, look, Datasphere was really centered around -- that's, by the way, many other offerings in the market was centered around optimizing the technical integration between SAP, our business warehouse, HANA, and Non-SAP data lakes, to avoid replication of data, which is costly cost performance and also imposes a security risk. So Datasphere was definitely a good step in the right direction.

很高興這樣做，查爾斯。我的意思是，Datasphere 的真正中心是——順便說一下，市場上的許多其他產品都圍繞著優化 SAP、我們的業務倉庫、HANA 和非 SAP 資料湖之間的技術集成，以避免資料複製，這會帶來昂貴的成本和效能，也會帶來安全風險。因此，Datasphere 無疑是朝著正確方向邁出的良好一步。

Now business data cloud is much more, and it's also plaguing a little bit with the strategy what SAP had in the past around data in the. On premise world in BW, we never shared our data module. The data module is actually the holy grail of SAP, our treasure.

現在，業務資料雲已經變得非常多，而且它也對 SAP 過去圍繞資料製定的策略產生了一些困擾。在 BW 的前提下，我們從未共享過我們的資料模組。資料模組其實是 SAP 的聖杯，是我們的寶藏。

Now what we are doing with this data cloud, we are saying, if you are now a retailer and you have consumer data sitting in an SAP order, you have consumer data sitting in the supply chain in the logistics module, in many places in CX, commerce, etc. But you for sure also have consumer data in non-SAP systems, marketing data, other data, social media data, etc.

現在，我們利用這個資料雲來做的事情是，如果您現在是一家零售商，並且您的消費者資料位於 SAP 訂單中，那麼您的消費者資料就位於物流模組的供應鏈中，位於 CX、商務等許多地方。但您肯定也在非 SAP 系統中擁有消費者數據、行銷數據、其他數據、社群媒體數據等。

And it was for every single company around the world, a big challenge. How can we match those data? How does it really fit to -- really come to a one customer 360? The same is for material, the same for a supplier, the same for an employee.

對全球每一家公司來說，這都是一個巨大的挑戰。我們如何匹配這些數據？它如何真正適合做——真正實現一個客戶的 360 度？對於材料也是如此，對於供應商也是如此，對員工來說也是如此。

And now what we are saying is we are sharing our data module, for example, for a customer. And what we are doing with data breaks is we are allowing our customers to match all the customer data that they have semantically. And what does this do? Certainly, you understand more about your customer end to end. This is a real 360, and that doesn't require an army of IT people, data scientists to make meaning of your data.

現在我們要說的是，我們正在為客戶分享我們的資料模組。我們對資料中斷所做的就是允許我們的客戶在語義上匹配他們擁有的所有客戶資料。這有什麼作用呢？當然，您可以更全面地了解您的客戶。這是真正的 360，並且不需要大量 IT 人員和資料科學家來理解您的資料。

And then when you think about business data cloud, I mean, obviously it's a pure value if you can steer your business and if you can delight your customers with a true understanding of their data. But then what you can do on AI, I mean, we are seeing this in many AI use cases we are building. I mean, AI is great technology, but what you need -- what you also need is high data quality.

然後，當您考慮商業資料雲時，我的意思是，如果您可以掌控您的業務，並且如果您可以透過真正了解客戶的資料來取悅客戶，那麼它顯然具有純粹的價值。但是，你可以在人工智慧上做什麼呢？我的意思是，我們在構建的許多人工智慧用例中都看到了這一點。我的意思是，人工智慧是一項很棒的技術，但你需要的——你還需要的是高品質的數據。

And now suddenly, tool and our AI agents are not only building and can consume SAP high quality data, now they consume data products which are combining also semantically non-SAP data. So I guess you see the strong value. And I have to tell you when we launched Wise, I mean, of course, we saw some momentum at the beginning. When I compare this now to business data cloud, I mean, we see at least an equal if not stronger momentum with regard to pipeline build up.

現在，工具和我們的 AI 代理程式突然不僅可以建立和使用 SAP 高品質數據，現在它們還可以使用結合了語義上非 SAP 數據的數據產品。所以我想你看到了其強大的價值。我必須告訴你，當我們推出 Wise 時，當然，我們一開始就看到了一些動力。當我將其與商業數據雲進行比較時，我的意思是，我們看到管道建設方面至少具有同等甚至更強勁的勢頭。

Mohammed Moawalla, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的穆罕默德·穆瓦拉 (Mohammed Moawalla)。

Great, thank you. Hi, Christian. Hi, Dominic. I just had a question around the kind of the number of deals over kind of $5 million in the order entry continue to pick up despite the environment, I think it was 54% versus 52% a year ago.

太好了，謝謝。你好，克里斯蒂安。你好，多明尼克。我只是想問一個問題，儘管環境如此，訂單中超過 500 萬美元的交易數量仍在繼續回升，我認為今年是 54%，而一年前是 52%。

When you think of -- you talk about closed rates, but when you think of perhaps some of these larger deals, are you seeing anything from the conversations with customers that they kind of still want to kind of proceed as planned in terms of size and scope of projects? But when we tend to see some uncertainty, often there can be some shifting and elongation there. So I'd be keen to kind of get your perspective on whether this is kind of sustainable.

當您想到 - 您談論的是成交率，但是當您想到一些較大的交易時，您是否從與客戶的對話中看到他們仍然希望按照計劃在項目規模和範圍方面進行？但當我們傾向於看到一些不確定性時，那裡往往會出現一些轉變和延長。所以我很想聽聽您對這是否可持續的看法。

And if I could fit in a follow up just on the FX, Dominic, you've assumed the $1.08 current rates are 114, any specific reason why, so you're using the $1.08? Thank you.

如果我可以就外匯問題進行跟進的話，多米尼克，您假設 1.08 美元的當前匯率是 114，有什麼具體原因嗎，所以您使用 1.08 美元？謝謝。

I mean, I can start on the large deals and indeed, you see a tick up. And also further secure those large deals also in the quarters to come, I mean, we, of course, running an extremely diligent account planning process where we really want to understand the value of a deal. Art quantified value, not only blah blah, but really quantified value. What does it deliver? Not only TCO, but also LOI.

我的意思是，我可以開始進行大交易，事實上，你會看到交易量上升。並且在未來幾季進一步確保這些大額交易，我的意思是，我們當然會運行一個非常勤勉的帳戶規劃流程，我們真正想了解交易的價值。藝術量化的價值，不只是說說而已，而是真正量化的價值。它能提供什麼？不只TCO，還有LOI。

Second, to which C level we are connected. Is the CFO in the loop? Is the CEO in the loop? Is the Head of the Supply Chain in the loop? Who is in the loop? IT is great, but we also need the lines of businesses, especially in times like that. And then when you look into some of the larger deals, I mean, you see it actually every time when we report our total cloud backlog, you see there is a facing in there. Yeah, so these $5 million plus deals, they are not hitting, OpEx wise and right away the P&L that is facing and this facing is natural, given, the mission critical nature of SAP projects.

第二，我們與哪個 C 等級相連。財務長了解狀況嗎？執行長了解情況嗎？供應鏈主管是否了解狀況？誰知道情況？IT 很棒，但我們也需要業務線，尤其是在這樣的時期。然後，當你研究一些較大的交易時，我的意思是，你實際上每次看到我們報告總雲積壓時，你都會看到其中存在一個問題。是的，這些價值 500 多萬美元的交易，從營運支出角度來看並沒有達到預期，而且他們面臨的損益表也是很自然的，因為 SAP 項目具有關鍵任務性質。

So you need time for the architects to finalize the architecture, the way how to move to our business suite. You need time to work with the business on the business processes. It's more than only a commodity business where you move to a new hardware. I mean it's really about business transformation. And that ramp is of course then also then good in times like that where customers, of course, want to see with the ramp of the subscription fee, of course, in the same way, the value we are delivering especially to those large customers. Dominik?

因此，您需要時間讓架構師最終確定架構以及如何轉移到我們的業務套件的方式。您需要時間來處理業務流程。這不僅僅是轉向新硬體的商品業務。我的意思是這確實與業務轉型有關。當然，在這樣的時期，這種成長也是件好事，因為客戶當然希望看到訂閱費的成長，同樣，我們也希望看到我們為大客戶提供的價值。多明尼克？

On Forex, of course, a weaker dollar is a, is a headwind for us in the mid to long term. But we have, as you know, a methodology of forecasting at constant currencies. We had $1.08 last year as the average exchange rate, so that is what we've guided for 2025.

當然，就外匯而言，美元走弱對我們來說在中長期內是一個阻力。但正如您所知，我們有一種以固定匯率進行預測的方法。去年的平均匯率預測也是如此。

Now with the weaker exchange rate, of course, then the revenues and operating profit would decline. The hedges we are implementing are effective on free cash flow. They are basically below the line on non-IFRS operating profit. And this is why we need that kind of constant currency methodology.

現在匯率走弱，當然收入和營業利益就會下降。我們正在實施的對沖對自由現金流是有效的。他們的非國際財務報告準則營業利潤基本上低於標準線。這就是我們需要這種恆定貨幣方法的原因。

But for free cash flow, we've actually hedged a large part of the exposure already at much higher rates. So that's reasonably protected. The sensitivities are such that for cent of EUR-dollar exchange rate because of the revenue mix and assuming a certain correlation, you would see about $30 million decline in revenues for the full year. And that's the total revenues. And on cloud, it is a little bit more than half of that, 55% cloud revenues and the mix US dollar and cloud revenue versus total revenue is not so different. It's a little bit higher in cloud revenues than in total revenues.

但對於自由現金流，我們實際上已經以更高的利率對沖了很大一部分風險。因此這是合理的保護。敏感度在於，由於收入組合和假設一定的相關性，歐元兌美元匯率的百分比將導致全年收入下降約 3,000 萬美元。這就是總收入。而在雲端運算方面，這一比例略高於一半，為 55%，而美元和雲端收入與總收入的混合比例並沒有太大差異。雲收入比總收入略高。

And then OpEx, but OpEx would also kind of decline. But because of the dollar expenses, we have close to 40% of our expenses in the US dollar. So it's not a huge exposure, but, while we are protected on free cash flow for 2025. To a certain degree, 2026 is more difficult than because then we would suffer really from the decline in the exchange rate. But I mean, this is why we guided on constant currencies in the past on free cash flow because it's really embarking also the hedges. It doesn't make sense anymore. So that kind of currency impact will hit us in a lacked fashion once the hedges basically expire.

然後是營運支出，但營運支出也會下降。但由於美元支出，我們有近40%的支出是以美元計算的。因此，雖然風險敞口不大，但我們 2025 年的自由現金流受到了保護。從某種程度上來說，2026年會更加困難，因為那時我們會真正遭受匯率下跌的打擊。但我的意思是，這就是為什麼我們過去以恆定貨幣指導自由現金流，因為它實際上也開始了對沖。這已經沒有任何意義了。因此，一旦對沖基本上到期，這種貨幣影響就會對我們造成不利影響。

Adam Wood, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的亞當伍德。

Hi, good evening, Christine. Good evening, Dominic, and congratulations on the first quarter. Maybe just -- first of all, I think Dominic, you've been reasonably clear that there's a willingness to protect both the profitability and cash flow business. Could you maybe, I mean, just actually reiterate that, but also more importantly, maybe just give us a little bit of a feeling for how much flexibility there is there? You obviously come into this year in a great position with headcount down slightly year on year and kind of flat-ish towards the fourth quarter. And how far you'd be willing to go in. In terms of protecting that if the top line were to weaken further?

你好，晚上好，克莉絲汀。晚上好，多明尼克，恭喜第一季取得佳績。也許只是——首先，我認為多明尼克，你已經相當清楚，我們願意保護獲利能力和現金流業務。我的意思是，您能否再次重申這一點，但更重要的是，能否讓我們稍微感受一下那裡有多少彈性？顯然，今年你們的處境很好，員工人數較去年同期略有下降，而第四季則基本持平。以及你願意走多遠。如果營收進一步下滑，如何保護這一點？

And if I could sneak in a just a cheeky follow up on Charlie's question on the business data cloud. I mean, we've talked about maintenance payments. So [initial] 20 going up by 2x to 3x. I mean, in that context, could you give us a feel for how big those business data cloud sales could be if a customer was also to add that into the contract as well as the other things they're upgrading when they go to rise? Thank you.

而且我是否可以偷偷地跟進一下 Charlie 關於商業數據雲的問題。我的意思是，我們已經討論過贍養費的問題了。因此 [初始] 20 增加了 2 倍到 3 倍。我的意思是，在這種情況下，您能否讓我們了解一下，如果客戶將其添加到合約中以及升級時要升級的其他內容中，那麼這些商業數據雲銷售額會有多大？謝謝。

Maybe on the profitability, yes, indeed, we are pretty low on headcount. I mean, we've seen about 3,000 people leave. We've rehired some people. But currently, we probably are looking for a little bit of more back-end loading to see how the situation on the trade dispute will evolve.

也許就獲利能力而言，是的，我們的員工人數確實相當少。我的意思是，我們已經看到大約 3,000 人離開。我們重新僱用了一些員工。但目前，我們可能正在尋求更多的後端加載來觀察貿易爭端局勢將如何發展。

So yes, we're talking about, I'd say, a cushion of several thousand employees we can play with without having any major impact now. But at some point in time, we want to invest in important topics like AI, like a business data cloud, like the further integration of our portfolio. So we will make sure that we balance the kind of near-term pressure versus the mid to long term needs to be future proof.

所以是的，我想說，我們正在談論一個由數千名員工組成的緩衝，我們可以利用這些員工，而不會對現在產生任何重大影響。但在某個時間點，我們希望投資一些重要的主題，例如人工智慧、商業數據雲，以及我們投資組合的進一步整合。因此，我們將確保平衡短期壓力和中長期需求，以確保未來發展。

There's also some more discretionary spending on marketing and topics like that. But again, I mean, for the time being, I would not see that we throw all that in. We have to watch what's happening. It's very unpredictable. But we just want to make the comment, there are some levers that we're currently a little bit prudent on how we are going to face these expenses to make sure that we have some room for maneuver should the situation deteriorate.

在行銷和類似主題上還有一些可自由支配的開支。但再說一次，就目前而言，我不會看到我們把所有這些都投入進去。我們必須觀察正在發生的事情。這是非常難以預測的。但我們只是想評論一下，我們目前對如何面對這些開支持謹慎態度，以確保在情況惡化時我們有一定的迴旋餘地。

Yes, and just to close this out, I mean, Dominic is absolutely right. And then of course, we're also not running out of ideas business wise. I mean, when you look at the cloud cost margin, when you look at the TCO of our solutions, the harmonization of the technical stacks. Now we are working hard to also further harmonize our delivery, our life cycle management around those solutions. So we further optimize our HANA cloud database, which, by the way, is the developing really well, not only underneath our solutions, but always also in terms of extensions to our business suite.

是的，最後我想說的是，多明尼克說得完全正確。當然，我們在商業方面也並非江郎才盡。我的意思是，當您查看雲端成本利潤率時，當您查看我們解決方案的 TCO 時，技術堆疊的協調。現在我們正在努力進一步協調我們的交付和圍繞這些解決方案的生命週期管理。因此，我們進一步優化了我們的 HANA 雲端資料庫，順便說一句，它發展得非常好，不僅在我們的解決方案之下，而且在我們的業務套件的擴展方面也是如此。

So we've got to clean core and then obviously also for analytical scenario. So we are not running out of operational levers to further improve our cost ratios. And then on the business data cloud, look at them, I mean, that can really differ a lot. The first really important lever for big deal sizes is, does the customer have a BW system? These BW instances are very large, a lot of data and similar -- oftentimes to [DRP] systems.

因此我們必須清理核心，然後顯然也進行分析場景。因此，我們不會耗盡營運槓桿來進一步改善我們的成本比率。然後在業務數據雲上查看它們，我的意思是，它們確實可能有很大差異。對於大交易規模來說，第一個真正重要的槓桿是，顧客是否有 BW 系統？這些 BW 實例非常大，包含大量數據，並且與 [DRP] 系統類似。

Now, if a customer is convinced not only to lift and shift those BW systems now to the cloud, but really what differentiates business data cloud is the semantic layer. If they go that way, the sizes can be pretty significant. But we also have other customers, like the new customers, we have customers who didn't use the BW. And they start rather smaller, they start with our data warehouse, they integrating it with our apps, with our business suite. They are trying out two or three data products on the semantical side, and then we go from there.

現在，如果客戶確信不僅要將這些 BW 系統提升並轉移到雲端，而且業務資料雲的真正區別在於語義層。如果這樣做，規模可能會相當大。但我們也有其他客戶，例如新客戶，還有沒有使用 BW 的客戶。他們從較小的規模開始，從我們的資料倉儲開始，然後將其與我們的應用程式、我們的業務套件整合。他們正在語義方面嘗試兩三種數據產品，然後我們從那裡開始。

But in such accounts obviously what is great that we are now in position ourselves in the stack, where we probably without business data cloud would have never ever have a chance to land. And then, when you hopefully going to visit us at Sapphire, you're going to see how we are now building a real marketplace around this data products. I mean we are not only developing those semantics with our own workforce, we are inviting customers, partners to build those data products. And then we, of course, then can also then of course increase the footprint in already existing BDC customers over time with these kind of data products.

但從這樣的角度來看，很顯然我們現在處於堆疊中的位置是件好事，如果沒有業務資料雲，我們可能永遠都沒有機會實現這一點。然後，當您希望訪問 Sapphire 時，您將看到我們現在如何圍繞這些數據產品建立一個真正的市場。我的意思是，我們不僅透過自己的員工開發這些語義，我們還邀請客戶、合作夥伴來建立這些數據產品。當然，我們也可以隨著時間的推移利用這類數據產品來擴大現有 BDC 客戶的影響力。

Jackson Ader, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

傑克遜·阿德（Jackson Ader），KeyBanc 資本市場。

Great, thank you. Thanks for taking our questions guys. In the event that there would be some potential disruption from the macro environment in the pipeline conversion rates, do you guys think that it would be maybe cloud migrations, or would it be net new activity that would have maybe a bigger impact? I guess asked a different way, is there any part of your pipeline that you feel is better insulated from a potential macro disruption than another part of your pipeline? Thank you.

太好了，謝謝。謝謝你們回答我們的問題。如果宏觀環境對管道轉換率造成潛在幹擾，你們認為可能是雲端遷移，還是淨新活動會產生更大的影響？我想換一種問法，您覺得您的管道中是否有哪個部分比管道的其他部分更能抵禦潛在的宏觀幹擾？謝謝。

I mean, as Dominik already shared, one, you saw some factors in the cloud revenue which had a lot to do with the heavy boost in order entry we have seen in Q4 and the time it takes to provision. Now what Dominik also said is in Q2, you can assume already a slight acceleration of cloud revenue, given the strong Q4 which we had. On the CCB side, it's rather the other way around. I mean, obviously, this is now a large install base Q2. It's also not volume wise, our biggest quarter.

我的意思是，正如 Dominik 已經分享的那樣，首先，您看到了雲端收入中的一些因素，這些因素與我們在第四季度看到的訂單量大幅增長以及配置所需的時間有很大關係。多明尼克也表示，鑑於我們第四季的強勁表現，你可以預期第二季的雲端收入將略有成長。而建行方面的情況則恰恰相反。我的意思是，顯然，這現在是一個龐大的安裝基礎 Q2。從銷售來看，這也是我們最大的一個季度。

And now for the rest of the year, when you look at the kind of certainty we see obviously still Q2, partly Q3 will matter for our Q4 cloud revenue performance. Q4 itself will not have a big impact anymore on this year's guidance because the revenues will come the next year. So the good piece is when you read into this, I mean, there is not now a large swing on cloud revenue and total revenue. Still obviously, we assume conversion rates like, last year, like the last quarters. And still, we are seeing this also happening.

對於今年剩餘的時間，當你看到我們顯然仍然看到的確定性時，第二季、第三季將在一定程度上影響我們第四季的雲端收入表現。第四季本身不會對今年的業績指引產生太大影響，因為營收將在明年公佈。因此，當您讀到這篇文章時，好消息是，我的意思是，現在雲端收入和總收入並沒有太大的變化。顯然，我們假設轉換率與去年、上季一樣。然而，我們看到這種情況仍在發生。

Now, with regard to is it a more net new or install base, look, I mean, when I mentioned some net new customers, I mean, VFS, extremely Successful. They have outgrown their current ERP by a lot. In order to now reach the next step, they have to have a suite which allows them to scale their business. So in this case, customers will buy software. And also in the install base, I mean, it really depends on where does the customer sit.

現在，關於它是更多的淨新客戶還是安裝基礎，看，我的意思是，當我提到一些淨新客戶時，我的意思是，VFS，非常成功。他們的發展已經遠遠超出了現有 ERP 的承受範圍。為了進入下一步，他們必須擁有一套能夠擴展業務的套件。因此在這種情況下，客戶就會購買軟體。而且在安裝基礎方面，我的意思是，這實際上取決於客戶坐在哪裡。

If you're sitting on a very outdated ERP, I mean the time, the value of moving now, I mean, is in my eyes so big. That still the that the business cases should really actually make sense even if the macro now gets worse. Now, of course, how much does it get worse? I mean, are we are walking into a recession. I mean, then we are talking about all kinds of scenarios which will at some point of time impact every business in the world. But this is hard to predict what we said, and this is why given what we see right now, the pipeline, the relevance of our portfolio, we actually remain confident for the rest of the year.

如果你還在使用非常過時的 ERP，那麼在我看來，現在遷移的價值就非常大了。即使宏觀經濟情勢現在變得更糟，商業案例仍然應該是真正有意義的。當然，現在情況又惡化到什麼程度了？我的意思是，我們是否正在走向衰退。我的意思是，我們正在討論各種各樣的場景，這些場景在某個時間點會影響世界上的每項業務。但這很難預測我們所說的內容，這就是為什麼根據我們目前看到的情況、管道、我們的投資組合的相關性，我們實際上對今年剩餘時間仍然充滿信心。

Frederic Boulan, Bank of America.

美國銀行的弗雷德里克布蘭 (Frederic Boulan)。

Hey, Christian and Dominik, thanks for taking the question. If I can touch on EBIT and free cash flow, a very strong Q1. If you can discuss some of the moving parts to the rest of the year and phasing to bear in mind, it's a strong improvement in cloud margin. Any specific driver there in terms of mix or in private cloud, any particular improvement there? And maybe you as it leads to free cash flow, you significantly accelerated the buyback in April. You've reached -- it was more than 90% of the $5 billion plan now. So what's next in terms of, potentially further expanding your program concerning your very healthy balance sheet?

嘿，克里斯蒂安和多明尼克，感謝你們回答這個問題。如果我可以談談息稅前利潤和自由現金流，那麼第一季的表現將會非常強勁。如果您可以討論今年剩餘時間的一些活動部分並記住分階段進行，那麼雲邊距將有顯著改善。在混合或私有雲方面有任何特定的驅動程式嗎？有什麼特別的改進嗎？也許由於它會帶來自由現金流，所以您在 4 月大幅加快了回購速度。你已經達到了——現在已經完成了 50 億美元計劃的 90% 以上。那麼，就您非常健康的資產負債表而言，下一步可能會進一步擴大您的計劃嗎？

Thank you.

謝謝。

So maybe on the margin composition, it was quite broad if you look at the expansion we've achieved. You mentioned the gross profit expansion, which was quite favorable, but also the selling expenses to sales ratio improved massively. The R&D ratio improved, and even the G&A ratio, which is already quite low and further improved, because we could lever some new technology that really contain head count growth.

因此，從利潤率組成來看，如果你看一下我們所實現的擴張，就會發現利潤率的組成相當廣泛。您提到了毛利的成長，這是相當有利的，而且銷售費用與銷售額的比率也大幅改善。研發費用率有所提高，甚至原本就很低的一般及行政費用率也得到了進一步提高，因為我們可以利用一些真正能夠抑制員工人數成長的新技術。

Now, in terms of -- sorry, the second question was the -- okay, then when we went to the free cash flow, well, on the free cash flow, yes, we also did very well. But again, I mean, I think we can all agree that it would not be to touch the guidance, and upwards, so to speak, on any of these parameters given the uncertainty we currently see. Yes, we're going to complete our $5 billion shares repurchase program, no doubt about that.

現在，就 - 抱歉，第二個問題是 - 好的，那麼當我們談到自由現金流時，嗯，就自由現金流而言，是的，我們也做得很好。但我想說的是，我們都同意，考慮到我們目前看到的不確定性，我們不會觸及指導方針，也不會向上調整任何參數。是的，我們將完成 50 億美元的股票回購計劃，這一點毫無疑問。

And yes, we have to think post end of this year what we're going to do. You could also say maybe it's an opportunity when valuations come under pressure that we gobble up the one or the other asset, but then we have to see what sellers already adjust their price expectation to a reasonable level. If there is no M&A of any magnitude, then we still have some firepower to launch a new program. So we don't see that the cash generation capability of the company is fundamentally changing, and that makes us confident for further capital returns program, absent any major M&A moves.

是的，我們必須考慮今年年底之後我們要做什麼。你也可以說，當估值面臨壓力時，這可能是一個機會，我們可以買入一項或另一項資產，但隨後我們必須看看賣家是否已經將其價格預期調整到合理水平。如果沒有任何規模的併購，那麼我們仍然有足夠的實力來啟動一項新計劃。因此，我們認為該公司的現金創造能力並未發生根本性變化，這使得我們對進一步的資本回報計劃充滿信心，除非發生任何重大的併購舉措。

Mark Moerdler, Bernstein Research.

伯恩斯坦研究公司 (Bernstein Research) 的馬克‧莫德勒 (Mark Moerdler)。

Thank you very much and congratulations on the strong start to the year and the reiteration of the guidance. I'd like to look at the question of tariffs more generally, how you think about that impacting your business? And more specifically, given the tariffs that are right now on hardware and servers and data center components, do you see that impacting your cloud gross margins, that's something that you could pass along to the clients? Any color would be appreciated.

非常感謝，並祝賀您今年的強勁開局和重申指導。我想更全面地看一下關稅問題，您認為這會對您的業務產生什麼影響？更具體地說，考慮到目前對硬體、伺服器和資料中心組件徵收的關稅，您是否認為這會影響您的雲端運算毛利率，您是否可以將其轉嫁給客戶？任何顏色都會受到歡迎。

Yeah, good question, Mark. I mean, our strategy is mainly based on a four-plus-one strategy. So what do we have? We have four hyper scales plus our own converged cloud. And with these hyper scales, I mean, you see the success we are having in the cloud, obviously, we have closed multi-year contracts, which give us, some price security. And obviously, given that we are consuming really heavy volume, still also today, we feel we are really in a solid position when it comes to extending those contracts.

是的，問得好，馬克。我的意思是，我們的策略主要基於四加一戰略。那我們有什麼？我們有四個超大規模加上我們自己的融合雲。有了這些超大規模，我的意思是，您可以看到我們在雲端運算領域的成功，顯然，我們已經簽訂了多年期合同，這為我們提供了一定的價格保障。顯然，考慮到我們今天消費的量確實很大，我們覺得在延長這些合約方面我們確實處於穩固的地位。

And again, we are having four-plus-one. We also have our own converge cloud. And actually, when we are looking at AI and the chips, I mean, what we're actually seeing is now, of course, before tariffs that the cost for the hardware became of course materially cheaper. With many new open source modules, with the technology becoming more mature, I mean, that helped. And so that's why ney-net plus the TCO improvements, what I mentioned, I mean, all our product owners are incentivized to further bring down the TCO. We have more ideas to come.

再次，我們有四加一。我們也有自己的融合雲。實際上，當我們研究人工智慧和晶片時，我的意思是，我們實際上看到的是，當然，在關稅之前，硬體成本當然已經變得便宜了。隨著許多新的開源模組的出現，隨著技術變得越來越成熟，我的意思是，這有所幫助。這就是為什麼 ney-net 加上 TCO 改進，我提到的，我的意思是，我們所有的產品所有者都有動力進一步降低 TCO。我們還會有更多的想法。

So we first of all believe that especially on the hardware side, I mean, we are not purchasing hardware directly so much. We are consuming it oftentimes while the hyperscale is there, we have some kind of price security. We have our own converge cloud, smaller from a volume perspective. And then last but not least, we are not planning now short term. I mean, obviously, everything to be seen under the different macro environment. That we have to increase now prices for our customers because of tariffs. We are not seeing this right now.

因此，我們首先認為，特別是在硬體方面，我們不會直接購買太多硬體。當超大規模存在時，我們經常會消費它，我們有某種價格保障。我們有自己的融合雲，從體積的角度來看較小。最後但同樣重要的一點是，我們現在沒有短期計劃。我的意思是，顯然一切都要在不同的宏觀環境下才能看到。由於關稅，我們現在必須提高客戶價格。我們現在還沒有看到這種情況。

And let's not forget that the supply chain for data center equipment is largely outside the US. I mean, the components are manufactured outside the US, the assembly of the semiconductors, the assembly of the PCBs. But of course, if that escalates and basically there's trade barriers globally more and more. But let's not catastrophize at this point in time.

我們不要忘記，資料中心設備的供應鏈主要在美國以外。我的意思是，這些零件都是在美國境外製造的，包括半導體的組裝、PCB 的組裝。但當然，如果這種情況進一步升級，全球貿易壁壘就會越來越多。但我們現在不要把事情想得太災難化。

We would have a little bit of a small impact in the US, because we have also some equipment like smartphones and PCs for employees locally in the US, which would need to be imported from that non-US supply chain into US. But that is not a meaningful number that would kind of change our guidance. So for the time being, we can cope with this.

我們會在美國產生一點小影響，因為我們也為美國當地員工提供一些設備，例如智慧型手機和個人電腦，這些設備需要從美國以外的供應鏈進口到美國。但這不是一個可以改變我們指導意見的有意義的數字。所以就目前而言，我們能夠應對這個問題。

Sven Merkt, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的斯文·默克特（Sven Merkt）。

Great, good evening. I have a follow up question on your own infrastructure business. I know you have deemphasized this a few years ago. But given recent geopolitical events, have you received increased client risk in your own infrastructure offering? And are there perhaps any consideration to revitalize this somewhat or work with additional partners? Thank you.

太好了，晚上好。我有一個關於您自己的基礎設施業務的後續問題。我知道幾年前你就不再強調這一點了。但考慮到最近的地緣政治事件，您在提供基礎設施服務時是否面臨更大的客戶風險？是否考慮過稍微振興一下或與其他合作夥伴合作？謝謝。

Yeah, very good question. And look, I mean, now we have so far not seen existing SAP customers changing the infrastructure because of geopolitical tensions or tariffs. Of course, there are customers now reaching out in one or the other country and saying, hey, what would be the cost of moving to an SAP infrastructure or if to any kind of foreign cloud offerings what we have. And but again, we are not seeing right now that really customers are now taking action. And the outreaches we get are rather few, not many.

是的，非常好的問題。而且，我的意思是，到目前為止，我們還沒有看到現有的 SAP 客戶因為地緣政治緊張或關稅而改變基礎設施。當然，現在有些客戶正在與某個國家的客戶聯繫，詢問遷移到 SAP 基礎設施的成本是多少，或者遷移到我們現有的任何類型的外國雲端產品的成本是多少。但我們現在還沒有看到客戶真正採取行動。而我們得到的外展服務卻相當少，不是很多。

Now on sovereign cloud, building up world-class data protection and data security offerings. I mean, you have seen in our Q1 we have signed a few deals, large deals in the public sector in Germany. We have NS2 in the United States, a fully independent company of SAP, and with a dedicated sovereign cloud offering which we are heavily investing into for the United States.

現在在主權雲端上建構世界一流的資料保護和資料安全產品。我的意思是，您已經看到，我們在第一季簽署了一些與德國公共部門相關的大型交易。我們在美國擁有 NS2，這是 SAP 的一家完全獨立的公司，並提供專用的主權雲端服務，我們正在為美國進行大量投資。

We have in Australia, Japan, so we are building up these capabilities. But you also have to always educate our customers on, especially in the public sector, what sovereignty really means. I mean, sovereignty can mean a lot. You can have data, location sovereignty, you also can have sovereignty when it comes to is touching the data. You can have sovereignty with regard to access of networks to global networks. And so we are offering different levels. And so far what we also have seen even in the public sector that it doesn't always need to have the highest degree of sovereignty, and so that is also a very positive sign that we oftentimes can also use our own data centers or hyper scalar data centers to offer sovereign cloud capabilities.

我們在澳洲、日本都有這樣的能力，所以我們正在建立這些能力。但你也必須始終教育我們的客戶，特別是公共部門的客戶，主權的真正意義。我的意思是，主權可以意味著很多事情。你可以擁有資料、位置主權，你也可以擁有接觸資料的主權。您可以對網路存取全球網路擁有主權。因此我們提供不同等級的服務。到目前為止，我們也看到，即使在公共部門，也並不總是需要擁有最高程度的主權，這也是一個非常積極的信號，表明我們常常也可以使用我們自己的資料中心或超標量資料中心來提供主權雲端功能。

Keith Bachman, BMO.

基思·巴赫曼，BMO。

Good evening and thank you very much. I wanted to return to the business data cloud if I could. Is there a way if you think about a normalization of trends over the next three years of what an average uplift on a client relationship or payments would be? Is it 10%, 20%, something higher?

晚上好，非常感謝。如果可以的話，我想回到商業數據雲端。如果您考慮未來三年內客戶關係或付款的平均成長趨勢正常化，有沒有辦法？是 10%、20% 還是更高？

The second part of the question. Is there a risk that the business data cloud crowds out or replaces other areas of spend that might be otherwise dedicated to SAP or is this in your mind, a purely an additive activity of creating this additional data lake to support the broader ecosystem?

問題的第二部分。是否存在業務資料雲擠佔或取代原本專用於 SAP 的其他支出領域的風險？或者，在您看來，這純粹是創建這個額外資料湖以支援更廣泛的生態系統的附加活動？

And the final part of the question is there anything you can speak to on the business data cloud associated with margins, Obviously, data bricks is the underlying engine to the data cloud. Is it therefore -- is this business really ramps? Is it dilute the margins? And that's it for me. And congratulations on what I suspect will be a very solid software report relative to a lot of other competing and similar software companies over the next few weeks.

問題的最後一部分是，您能談談與利潤相關的業務數據雲嗎？顯然，資料磚是​​資料雲的底層引擎。那麼——這項業務真的在成長嗎？這樣會稀釋利潤嗎？對我來說就是這樣。恭喜您，我相信在接下來的幾週內，與許多其他競爭和類似的軟體公司相比，這將是一份非常可靠的軟體報告。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah, so this data cloud, let's start from the beginning. Will business data cloud replace other assets in our portfolio? No. We actually in the last years already removed in our legacy stacks, in our acquired stacks, a lot of the data warehouse capabilities, with our data warehouse cloud offering. And so we are in the process of doing so. But there is now not a replacement happening of SAP software because of BDC.

是的，那麼這個資料雲，讓我們從頭開始。商業數據雲會取代我們投資組合中的其他資產嗎？不。實際上，我們在過去幾年中已經透過資料倉儲雲端產品從我們的遺留堆疊和所收購的堆疊中刪除了許多資料倉儲功能。我們現在正在這樣做。但目前還沒有出現因BDC而取代SAP軟體的情況。

Now obviously, what will happen in the BW space when customers running these large systems, I mean, they are paying maintenance for that. So similar to the wise journey of the ERPs, I mean, it will -- a lot of it will depend on how the -- how high the multiples are from on-premise support to cloud revenue.

現在很明顯，當客戶運行這些大型系統時，BW 空間會發生什麼，我的意思是，他們為此支付維護費用。因此，與 ERP 的明智之旅類似，我的意思是，這在很大程度上取決於從內部支援到雲端收入的倍數有多高。

And there we are pretty confident, because we believe the value proposition is wrong and we can price this asset with a good margin. Now, on the cost margin and the margin overall of BDC. I mean, obviously, it's fair to say that data breaks gets a fair share of these deals. Now that is an okay margin, but not a great margin.

我們對此非常有信心，因為我們相信價值主張是錯誤的，我們可以為該資產定價一個良好的利潤率。現在，討論 BDC 的成本利潤和整體利潤。我的意思是，顯然，可以公平地說，資料外洩在這些交易中佔有相當大的份額。現在這是一個還不錯的利潤，但不是一個很大的利潤。

Now the margin of this offering will come via the data products. And so what we are doing underneath the semantic layer is what we did with datasphere, that is okay, that is delivering value. But what we want a price with the premium is definitely then the semantics, the data products. And there we actually expect to have a very healthy margin of this offering in the years to come, obviously correlating with the value of what our customers get out of it.

現在，該產品的利潤將透過數據產品實現。因此，我們在語意層之下所做的就是我們對資料圈所做的，這是可以的，這正在創造價值。但我們想要的溢價肯定是語義和數據產品。我們實際上預計未來幾年該產品的利潤率將非常可觀，這顯然與我們的客戶從中獲得的價值有關。

And then, last but not least, on your question of BDC, what is the percentage uplift? I mean, we are now just starting to deliver the data products. I mean, the technical integration is there, the integration with data breaks is there. Now what we are now building are the data products. And you can look at our road map, so definitely there will be an uplift. Is it now 10% to 20%? Look, I mean, it's hard to say. I will definitely say there is absolutely uplift.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，關於您關於 BDC 的問題，其提升百分比是多少？我的意思是，我們現在才剛開始提供數據產品。我的意思是，技術整合已經存在，資料中斷整合也已經存在。現在我們正在建構的是數據產品。你可以看看我們的路線圖，肯定會有一個提升。現在是10%到20%嗎？瞧，我的意思是，這很難說。我肯定會說這絕對是一種提升。

Uplifting on the data products will become richer per se over the time, and then we will have more. So there is absolutely an uplift in upselling and cross-selling. Now, will this be 10%, will this be 20%, really hard to say at the point right now. What we can definitely say, the pipeline is developing really well, and the multiples look, really healthy.

隨著時間的推移，數據產品本身的提升將變得更加豐富，然後我們將擁有更多。因此追加銷售和交叉銷售絕對會有所提升。現在，這個數字會是 10% 嗎？還是 20% 呢？現在真的很難說。我們可以肯定地說，管道發展得非常好，而且倍數看起來真的很健康。

Great. Thank you, Christian. And this concludes our call for the day. Thank you for joining us.

偉大的。謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。今天的通話到此結束。感謝您加入我們。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.

女士們、先生們，會議現已結束，您可以掛斷電話了。感謝您的加入並祝您有個愉快的一天。再見。