SAP SE (SAP) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome, and thank you for joining the SAP Q2 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們先生們，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎並感謝您參加 SAP 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Alexandra Steiger, Global Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

我現在想將會議交給投資者關係全球主管 Alexandra Steiger。請繼續。

Good evening, everyone, and welcome. Thank you for joining us. With me today are CEO, Christian Klein; and CFO, Dominik Asam. On this call, we will discuss SAP's second quarter '24 results. You can find the deck supplementing this call as well as our quarterly statement on our Investor Relations website.

大家晚上好，歡迎光臨。感謝您加入我們。今天和我在一起的有執行長 Christian Klein；財務長多米尼克·阿薩姆。在本次電話會議上，我們將討論 SAP '24 年第二季的業績。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到補充本次電話會議的資料以及我們的季度聲明。

During this call, we will make forward-looking statements which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks answd uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to differ materially. Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our filings with the SEC, including, but not limited to the risk factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F for 2023.

在本次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，即對未來事件的預測、預測或其他陳述。這些陳述是基於目前的預期和假設，這些預期和假設存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果和成果有重大差異。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊可以在我們向 SEC 提交的文件中找到，包括但不限於我們 2023 年 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分。

Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS, and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS, year-on-year at constant currencies. The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS.

除非另有說明，本次電話會議中的所有數據均非國際財務報告準則，且成長率和百分點變動均非國際財務報告準則，以固定匯率計算。我們提供的非國際財務報告準則財務指標不應被視為替代或優於根據國際財務報告準則編製的財務績效指標。

Christian, now over to you.

克里斯蒂安，現在交給你了。

Yes. Thank you, Alexandra, and welcome to the SAP family as our new Global Head of Investor Relations. It's great to have you onboard. A warm welcome also to everyone on the line. My main message to you in this call, we continue to deliver, despite the volatile environment in the software industry.

是的。謝謝 Alexandra，並歡迎加入 SAP 大家庭，擔任我們新任全球投資人關係主管。很高興您能加入。也熱烈歡迎在線上的每個人。我在這次電話會議中向您傳達的主要訊息是，儘管軟體產業的環境不穩定，但我們仍將繼續提供服務。

Our growth momentum remained strong in Q2. More and more customers are moving to the cloud, and our portfolio is becoming ever more attractive, thanks to SAP's business AI capabilities.

第二季我們的成長動能依然強勁。越來越多的客戶正在轉向雲端，由於 SAP 的業務 AI 功能，我們的產品組合變得越來越有吸引力。

In Q2, we also significantly increased our profitability. We continue to execute on our transformation program with great discipline, with free hiring only for the skill sets we need. As you have seen, we are increasing the volume of the program. That's why we are able to announce an upgrade of roughly EUR200 million on the bottom line of our ambition 2025.

第二季度，我們的獲利能力也顯著提高。我們繼續以嚴格的紀律執行我們的轉型計劃，僅免費招募我們需要的技能。正如您所看到的，我們正在增加程式的容量。這就是為什麼我們能夠宣布將 2025 年雄心目標的底線上調約 2 億歐元。

SAP's strong momentum was already evident a few weeks ago at Sapphire. Our customers and partners have never before had so much positive feedback about SAP's innovative, best-of-suite portfolio, and position in the market. Business AI was, of course, at the center, and there's no doubt that everyone perceives SAP as a major AI player, given how well we are positioned to embed AI into operating systems of our customers.

SAP 的強勁勢頭幾週前在 Sapphire 上就已經顯現出來。我們的客戶和合作夥伴從未對 SAP 的創新、最佳套件產品組合和市場地位獲得如此多的正面回饋。當然，商業人工智慧是核心，毫無疑問，每個人都將 SAP 視為主要的人工智慧參與者，因為我們在將人工智慧嵌入客戶的作業系統中的能力非常出色。

This perception manifested itself now also in our Q2 numbers. In our ERP and LOB deal we closed, our AI strategy played a key role. And AI had a direct impact on our bookings. In the second quarter, almost 20% of all deals included premium AI use cases. And this is just the beginning. Customers have clear plans to expand AI consumption on the rise and grow transformation journeys.

這種看法現在也體現在我們第二季的數據中。在我們完成的 ERP 和 LOB 交易中，我們的人工智慧策略發揮了關鍵作用。人工智慧對我們的預訂產生了直接影響。第二季度，近 20% 的交易包含優質人工智慧用例。而這只是個開始。客戶有明確的計劃來擴大不斷增長的人工智慧消費並推動轉型之旅。

Let me give you some quick updates on our key items in business AI. Joule is quickly becoming our new user experience, our one front end. We are making our AI co-pilot an incredible productivity engine for the 300 million people worldwide using our cloud software. Q2 examples include the engine automotive leader, Mahindra & Mahindra and the Belgian Manufacturing company, [Baker].

讓我為您提供一些有關商業人工智慧關鍵項目的快速更新。 Joule 正迅速成為我們新的使用者體驗，我們的一個前端。我們正在使我們的人工智慧副駕駛成為一個令人難以置信的生產力引擎，為全球 3 億使用我們雲端軟體的人服務。第二季的例子包括引擎車領導者 Mahindra & Mahindra 和比利時製造公司 [Baker]。

Besides the Joule innovations, we continue to release embedded AI use cases across our portfolio. In Q2, customers selected our CXAI toolkit to boost the productivity of sales teams by up to 10% and e-commerce teams by up to 50%. Our GenAI features in Concur were very popular too. 150,000 users every week now use these features processing nearly 1 million hotel bills per month. Over all, we have published over 60 GenAI use cases to date and are on track to deliver more than 100 scenarios by the end of this year.

除了 Joule 創新之外，我們還繼續在我們的產品組合中發布嵌入式人工智慧用例。第二季度，客戶選擇了我們的 CXAI 工具包，將銷售團隊的生產力提高了 10%，電子商務團隊的生產力提高了 50%。我們在 Concur 中的 GenAI 功能也非常受歡迎。現在每周有 15 萬用戶使用這些功能，每月處理近 100 萬筆飯店帳單。到目前為止，我們已經發布了 60 多個 GenAI 用例，並預計在今年年底前交付 100 多個場景。

Last but not least, our GenAI hub on BTP is buzzing with activity. Since Sapphire, we have seen a lot of additional interest from big customers. Over 90 partner use cases are now in co-innovation, including use cases with big systems integrators. One example is smart dispute management developed by Ernst & Young. The use case streamlines the returns management process, reducing bad manual effort and minimizing errors.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是，我們 BTP 上的 GenAI 中心正熱鬧非凡。自藍寶石以來，我們看到了大客戶的更多興趣。目前，超過 90 個合作夥伴用例正在共同創新，其中包括與大型系統整合商的用例。安永會計師事務所開發的智慧爭議管理就是一個例子。此用例簡化了退貨管理流程，減少了不良的人工工作並最大限度地減少了錯誤。

Sapphire also helped to significantly boost our Wise pipeline. Wise is not just a lift and shift to the cloud. It's a holistic offering to increase competitiveness through a deep business transformation to replace the legacy ERP with our modular cloud ERP and to increase agility and infuse innovation every quarter. The evolution of Wise will include one dedicated enterprise architect for each customer, and it will rely on an integrated business transformation suite.

藍寶石還幫助顯著增強了我們的 Wise 管道。 Wise 不只是向雲端的遷移。它是一個整體產品，旨在透過深度業務轉型來提高競爭力，以我們的模組化雲端 ERP 取代傳統 ERP，並每季提高敏捷性並注入創新。 Wise 的發展將包括為每位客戶配備專門的企業架構師，並將依賴整合的業務轉型套件。

With Signavio, we cover the process layer. With LeanIX, we recover enterprise architecture. And once the WalkMe acquisition is closed, we will also cover the end user and guide and enable them to get the best out of our solutions.

透過 Signavio，我們覆蓋了流程層。借助 LeanIX，我們恢復了企業架構。一旦 WalkMe 收購完成，我們還將涵蓋最終用戶並提供指導，使他們能夠充分利用我們的解決方案。

Together with NVIDIA, we also bring AI capabilities into our Wise journey via Joule for consultants and Joule for developers. With the latter, for example, users can generate, understand, and test modern ABAP Cloud code and boost productivity encoding by up to 30%. So our customers benefit from a significant increase in time to value.

我們也與 NVIDIA 合作，透過顧問的 Joule 和開發人員的 Joule，將 AI 功能引入我們的 Wise 之旅。例如，使用後者，使用者可以產生、理解和測試現代 ABAP Cloud 程式碼，並將編碼效率提高高達 30%。因此，我們的客戶受益於價值實現時間的顯著增加。

And SAP benefits too, as every successful Wise journey is an opportunity to cross-sell and generate revenue across the portfolio. Customers will spend less on implementation and custom code, and they will spend more on building innovative applications on BTP. The momentum so evident at Sapphire and Orlando and

SAP 也受益匪淺，因為每一次成功的 Wise 旅程都是跨產品組合交叉銷售和創造收入的機會。客戶將在實施和自訂程式碼上花費更少，而在 BTP 上建立創新應用程式上花費更多。藍寶石和奧蘭多的勢頭如此明顯

Barcelona carried us throughout the whole quarter. Let's see how far in concrete numbers. Current cloud backlog was 28% and came in at EUR14.8 billion. Cloud revenue expanded 25% to EUR4.2 billion. This expansion was driven by the cloud ERP suite, which came in 33% higher year over year and reached EUR3.4 billion. Thanks to the increasing share of cloud revenue, total revenue growth end up double-digit territory for the first time since Q1 2019.

巴塞隆納整個季度都帶領著我們。讓我們看看具體數字有多遠。目前的雲積壓率為 28%，價值 148 億歐元。雲端營收成長 25%，達到 42 億歐元。這項擴張是由雲端 ERP 套件推動的，該套件年增 33%，達到 34 億歐元。由於雲端收入份額不斷增加，總收入成長自 2019 年第一季以來首次達到兩位數。

We also performed extremely well on the bottom line. Our operating profit jumped 35% to EUR1.9 billion year over year, and the operating margin was 4 percentage points higher. The diligent and speedy implementation of our transformation program to date was a key factor here.

我們在獲利方面也表現得非常好。我們的營業利潤年增 35%，達到 19 億歐元，營業利益率提高了 4 個百分點。迄今為止，我們的轉型計劃的勤奮和快速實施是一個關鍵因素。

Let me now share some of the customer stories behind these great numbers. Exxonmobil, a leader in the energy sector has entered a long-term partnership with us to leverage Wise. The deal marks the next chapter in a multi-phase transformation journey, with tangible business value in each face. The overarching goal is to enhance ExxonMobil's operational efficiency and agility.

現在讓我分享這些偉大數字背後的一些客戶故事。能源領域的領導者埃克森美孚已與我們建立長期合作夥伴關係，以利用 Wise。這筆交易標誌著多階段轉型之旅的新篇章，每個方面都具有實際的商業價值。總體目標是提高埃克森美孚的營運效率和敏捷性。

As for growth, about 60% of customers in Q2 were net new, among to grow deals where the international beverage company, Campari Group; and Fortera, a Silicon Valley firm working on cement production with zero emissions.

至於成長方面，第二季約 60% 的客戶為淨新客戶，其中國際飲料公司 Campari Group 和 Campari Group 的交易不斷成長。 Fortera 是一家致力於零排放水泥生產的矽谷公司。

Grow with SAP is driven by our fantastic reseller partners. Today, we have won almost 1,500 customers. Many of them started a journey with S4 public cloud finance and are now expanding their SAP ERP footprint.

「與 SAP 共同成長」是由我們優秀的經銷商合作夥伴推動的。如今，我們已經贏得了近 1,500 名客戶。他們中的許多人開始了 S4 公有雲財務之旅，現在正在擴大他們的 SAP ERP 足跡。

Let's now look at an example for business AI and the BTP. Lenovo is using business AI to identify supply chain and finance risk, reduce repetitive tasks, and optimize supply chain management. And with the BTP, Lenovo will integrate SAP and non-SAP solutions.

現在讓我們來看一個商業 AI 和 BTP 的範例。聯想正在利用商業人工智慧來識別供應鏈和財務風險，減少重複性任務並優化供應鏈管理。透過 BTP，聯想將整合 SAP 和非 SAP 解決方案。

As for our SAP business transformation suite, BASF, the world's largest chemical company, is adopting SAP's Signavio. The strategic move underlines BASF's commitment to complete its massive ERP transformation quickly and confidently.

至於我們的SAP業務轉型套件，全球最大的化學公司巴斯夫正在採用SAP的Signavio。這項策略性舉措凸顯了巴斯夫快速、自信地完成大規模 ERP 轉型的承諾。

Beyond these customer wins, we put our partnership with the global HR services leader ADP on the new footing just yesterday. Together, we will shift ADP's entire SAP on-premise payroll offering to a cloud-based solution. As always, you can find a summary of major customer wins in the quarterly statement. They all speak one language, SAP is the operating system of the global economy.

除了贏得這些客戶之外，昨天我們也為與全球人力資源服務領導者 ADP 的合作關係奠定了新的基礎。我們將共同將 ADP 的整個 SAP 本地薪資服務轉變為基於雲端的解決方案。像往常一樣，您可以在季度報表中找到主要客戶贏得的摘要。他們都說一種語言，SAP是全球經濟的作業系統。

Looking at the larger picture, our growth formula is clearly working. We have the right ingredients in place in our cloud ERP suite. Just to reiterate, Wise brings best-of-suite ERP to our installed base, enabling large enterprises to transform deeply. Grow is the perfect choice for greenfield projects, for net new customers, and subsidiaries of large companies, always in the public cloud.

從更大的角度來看，我們的成長公式顯然正在發揮作用。我們的雲端 ERP 套件中配備了正確的要素。重申一下，Wise 為我們的安裝基礎帶來了最佳套件 ERP，使大型企業能夠進行深度轉型。 Grow 是綠地專案、淨新客戶和大公司子公司的完美選擇，始終位於公有雲中。

The BTP brings everything together as the leading platform for B2B transformation. Once we have landed with Wise, Grow, and the BTP, we go into the expansion mode with our line of business solutions.

BTP 將一切整合在一起，成為 B2B 轉型的領先平台。一旦我們獲得了 Wise、Grow 和 BTP，我們的業務線解決方案就進入了擴張模式。

Finally, business AI is infused everywhere and lifts the whole portfolio to a new level. All of these are SAP-sized opportunities. They will allow us to massively increase market share.

最後，商業人工智慧無所不在，並將整個產品組合提升到一個新的水平。所有這些都是 SAP 規模的機會。它們將使我們能夠大幅增加市場份額。

Side by side with our Grow story, the transformation we launched earlier this year is gaining traction. In the second half of 2024, we are strongly focusing on simplifying our go-to market even further. The goal is to strengthen our channel business and to promote our land-and-expand motions.

與我們的 Grow 故事一起，我們今年早些時候推出的轉型正在獲得關注。 2024 年下半年，我們將專注於進一步簡化我們的市場投放流程。目標是加強我們的通路業務並推動我們的土地擴張行動。

At the same time, we are making major progress with the automation of internal processes through AI using the GenAI hub on the BTP. The expected savings are in the triple-digit-million range. Given the increased scope of our transformation program, we are confidently raising the operating profit ambition for 2025.

同時，我們正在利用 BTP 上的 GenAI 中心透過 AI 實現內部流程自動化，取得重大進展。預計節省數百萬美元。鑑於我們轉型計畫範圍的擴大，我們有信心提高 2025 年的營業利潤目標。

In summary, our growth momentum in the cloud remained strong in Q2, and we continue to execute our transformation program with great discipline. Business AI is embedded in all our solutions and will boost success across the portfolio, with more powerful use cases on their way. Given our progress and our exciting product pipeline, we are confident that we will be able to achieve accelerating top-line growth through 2027.

總而言之，第二季我們在雲端領域的成長動能依然強勁，我們繼續嚴格執行我們的轉型計畫。商業人工智慧已嵌入我們所有的解決方案中，並將推動整個產品組合的成功，並帶來更強大的用例。鑑於我們取得的進展和令人興奮的產品線，我們有信心在 2027 年實現營收加速成長。

And with that, over to you, Dominik.

接下來，就交給你了，多明尼克。

Thank you, Christian. And thank you, all, for joining us this evening. As you can see from the financial results Christian just shared, our strong performance continued into the second quarter. In the first half of the year, we have delivered impressive results, further reinforcing our confidence in the trajectory of the business.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。感謝大家今晚加入我們。正如您從克里斯蒂安剛剛分享的財務業績中看到的那樣，我們的強勁表現持續到了第二季。上半年，我們取得了驕人的業績，進一步增強了我們對業務發展的信心。

We continue to enjoy robust demand for our solutions in Q2, driven by both new customers and our broad installed base. This demand was fueled by a healthy pipeline, cloud conversions of existing customers, and substantial upselling and cross-selling opportunities.

在新客戶和廣泛的安裝基礎的推動下，我們在第二季度繼續享受對我們的解決方案的強勁需求。這種需求是由健康的管道、現有客戶的雲端轉換以及大量的追加銷售和交叉銷售機會所推動的。

Our business AI strategy is making progress, playing a key role in these opportunities and customer interactions and is helping to drive pipeline growth. SAP solution is an integral part of our global customers' core operations, and we're seeing a strong unabated shift from on-prem to cloud. Our building blocks are firmly in place as evidenced by the growth of our current cloud backlog and cloud revenue, as well as the strong expansion of our non-IFRS operating profit.

我們的商業人工智慧策略正在取得進展，在這些機會和客戶互動中發揮關鍵作用，並有助於推動通路成長。 SAP 解決方案是我們全球客戶核心營運不可或缺的一部分，我們看到從本地到雲端的強勁轉變。我們目前的雲端積壓訂單和雲端收入的成長以及非 IFRS 營業利潤的強勁成長證明了我們的建置模組已牢固就位。

The company-wide transformation program we initiated in January continues to progress well, further enhancing our operational efficiencies and laying the groundwork for sustained long-term growth. All of this has paved the way for positive trend towards larger cloud transactions, with deals greater than EUR5 million in volume, yet again contributing more than half of our cloud order entry.

我們一月份啟動的全公司轉型計畫繼續進展順利，進一步提高了我們的營運效率，為持續的長期成長奠定了基礎。所有這些都為更大的雲端交易的積極趨勢鋪平了道路，交易量超過 500 萬歐元，再次貢獻了我們雲端訂單輸入的一半以上。

Now let me go into further details regarding our financial highlights. We are on track to achieve our fiscal year 2024 top-line outlook and fiscal year 2025 ambition as demonstrated by current cloud backlog, reaching EUR14.8 billion, growing by 28% year over year.

現在讓我進一步詳細介紹我們的財務亮點。我們預計將實現 2024 財年的營收展望和 2025 財年的目標，目前的雲積壓訂單已達到 148 億歐元，年成長 28%，證明了這一點。

Cloud revenue grew 25%, mainly driven by the continued strength of Cloud ERP suite. Specifically, Cloud ERP suite grew by 33% in Q2, its 10th consecutive quarter of growth in the 30s. This ongoing momentum reinforces our belief that Cloud ERP plays a pivotal role in our customers' digital transformation journey.

雲端營收成長 25%，主要受到雲端 ERP 套件持續強勁的推動。具體來說，雲端 ERP 套件在第二季度成長了 33%，這是自 1930 年代以來連續第 10 個季度成長。這種持續的勢頭增強了我們的信念，即雲端 ERP 在客戶的數位轉型之旅中發揮關鍵作用。

Software licenses revenue decreased by 27% compared to the same period last year, demonstrating the continued shift towards cloud solutions. Finally, total revenue worth EUR8.3 billion in Q2, up 10% year over year, demonstrating the resilience of our overall business in the face of evolving market dynamics.

軟體授權收入與去年同期相比下降了27%，顯示了向雲端解決方案的持續轉變。最後，第二季總營收達到 83 億歐元，年成長 10%，證明了我們整體業務在面對不斷變化的市場動態時的彈性。

Now let's take a brief look at our regional performance. In the second quarter, SAP's cloud revenue performance was particularly strong in APJ and EMEA and robust in the Americas region. Brazil, Canada, Germany, India, Japan, and South Korea all had outstanding performances in the cloud revenue growth, while China, the US, and Saudi Arabia were particularly strong.

現在讓我們簡要回顧一下我們的區域表現。第二季度，SAP 的雲端營收表現在亞太及日本地區和歐洲、中東和非洲地區尤其強勁，在美洲地區也表現強勁。巴西、加拿大、德國、印度、日本和韓國在雲端收入成長方面均表現出色，其中中國、美國和沙烏地阿拉伯表現特別強勁。

Now moving on to the bottom line. Our cloud gross profit grew by 29%, driven by cloud revenue growth and further efficiency gains. This resulted in cloud gross margin improving from the year-ago period, expanding by 2 percentage points to 73.3%. IFRS operating profit in the second quarter was down 11% to EUR1.22 -- sorry, to EUR1.22 billion. This increase was driven by approximately -- sorry, this decrease was driven by approximately EUR600 million in incremental restructuring expenses associated with the transformation program initiated at the beginning of this year.

現在轉向底線。在雲端收入成長和進一步效率提升的推動下，我們的雲毛利潤成長了 29%。這使得雲毛利率較去年同期有所改善，擴大2個百分點至73.3%。第二季 IFRS 營業利潤下降 11% 至 1.22 歐元——抱歉，降至 12.2 億歐元。這一增長是由大約 - 抱歉，這一下降是由於與今年年初啟動的轉型計劃相關的約 6 億歐元的增量重組費用推動的。

These additional expenses primarily resulted from the positive reception of the voluntary leave programs. While restructuring expenses recorded in the first half of 2024 totaled EUR2.9 billion, the overall expenses associated with the program are currently expected to be approximately EUR3 billion.

這些額外費用主要是由於自願休假計劃受到積極歡迎。雖然 2024 年上半年記錄的重組費用總計 29 億歐元，但目前與該計劃相關的總費用預計約為 30 億歐元。

Finally, non-IFRS operating profit grew by 35% to EUR1.94 billion, supported by strong revenue growth, continued operational efficiency, as well as disciplined execution of the 2024 transformation program. Non-IFRS earnings per share basic in the quarter increased 59% to EUR1.10. The IFRS effective tax rate for Q2 was 33.8%, and the non-IFRS tax rate was 33.6%.

最後，在強勁的收入成長、持續的營運效率以及嚴格執行 2024 年轉型計畫的支持下，非國際財務報告準則營業利潤成長了 35%，達到 19.4 億歐元。本季非國際財務報告準則每股收益基本成長 59%，達 1.10 歐元。第二季 IFRS 有效稅率為 33.8%，非 IFRS 稅率為 33.6%。

Now, on to our cash generation. Free cash flow in the second quarter increased by 114% to EUR1.3 billion. The improvement was primarily attributable to increased non-IFRS profitability and enhanced working capital management. Additionally, there was a timing benefit that contributed to the strong performance.

現在，談談我們的現金產生。第二季自由現金流成長 114%，達到 13 億歐元。這項改善主要歸因於非國際財務報告準則獲利能力的提高和營運資本管理的加強。此外，時機優勢也促成了強勁的業績。

While we paid out approximately EUR500 million for restructuring this quarter, we expect the majority of payouts associated with the restructuring to occur in the second half of the year due to the phasing of the underlying programs.

雖然我們本季為重組支付了約 5 億歐元，但由於基礎計畫的分階段，我們預計與重組相關的大部分支出將在今年下半年發生。

Now let's move on to the outlook. As you've seen in today's release, we keep our 2024 financial outlook unchanged. While we had a very good first half of 2024, Q4 is typically our largest quarter. Our Q4 performance will be crucial in achieving our full-year targets and our 2025 ambitions. So we continue to be prudent and vigilant in terms of observing the evolving market dynamics, executing our strategic initiatives, and driving operational efficiencies.

現在讓我們繼續展望。正如您在今天的新聞稿中所看到的，我們維持 2024 年財務前景不變。雖然 2024 年上半年我們的業績非常好，但第四季通常是我們業績最大的季度。我們第四季的業績對於實現我們的全年目標和 2025 年的雄心壯志至關重要。因此，我們在觀察不斷變化的市場動態、執行我們的策略性舉措和提高營運效率方面繼續保持審慎和警惕。

Where we intend to make some adjustments though is on our transformation program and its impact on our financial performance. We now estimate that between 9,000 and 10,000 positions will be affected. With the corresponding impact on restructuring provisions, cash out and run rate savings after completion of the program.

不過，我們打算對我們的轉型計劃及其對財務表現的影響進行一些調整。我們現在估計 9,000 至 10,000 個職位將受到影響。計劃完成後，會對重組準備金、現金支出和運行率節省產生相應的影響。

As compared to what we had indicated in the first quarter, we added about EUR800 million of restructuring expenses and cash out, now expecting a total of EUR3 billion. This is expected to yield additional run rate savings of approximately EUR200 million. A mid-triple-digit-million amount of incremental cash out is expected to spill over into the year 2025, more than offsetting the cash contribution from the additional savings.

與我們第一季表示的相比，我們增加了約 8 億歐元的重組費用和現金支出，目前預計總額為 30 億歐元。預計這將額外節省約 2 億歐元的營運費用。預計 2025 年將有三位數的增量現金支出，足以抵消額外節省的現金貢獻。

It's important to note that the increase in the number of affected positions does not imply complete elimination of these roles, but allows us to refine our setup in terms of skills and locations. By now, we've also made some progress on working capital measures and do see a path to nevertheless deliver the EUR8 billion of free cash flow we've previously announced in our 2025 ambition. For the detailed outlook and ambition 2025, please refer to our quarterly statement published earlier today on our Investor Relations website.

值得注意的是，受影響職位數量的增加並不意味著完全消除這些角色，而是允許我們在技能和位置方面完善我們的設定。到目前為止，我們在營運資本措施方面也取得了一些進展，並且確實看到了實現我們先前在 2025 年目標中宣布的 80 億歐元自由現金流的途徑。有關 2025 年的詳細展望和目標，請參閱今天早些時候在我們的投資者關係網站上發布的季度聲明。

So to sum it up, we have demonstrated strong momentum in the first half of the year, underpinned by unabated growth momentum for our solutions and great progress on strategic transformation initiatives. This puts us into a strong starting position for the second half of 2024, thereby solidifying the bridge into our ambition 2025.

綜上所述，我們上半年展現了強勁的勢頭，解決方案的成長勢頭不減，策略轉型取得了巨大進展。這使我們在 2024 年下半年處於有利的起點，從而為我們實現 2025 年的雄心壯志奠定了堅實的基礎。

Thank you. And we will now be happy to take your questions.

謝謝。我們現在很樂意回答您的問題。

Thank you very much, Dominik. And with that, we will now take your questions. I would like to kindly remind you to only ask one question when prompted. Operator, please open the line.

非常感謝你，多明尼克。現在我們將回答你們的問題。我想提醒您在出現提示時只問一個問題。接線員，請開通線路。

(Operator Instructions) Mark Moerdler, Sanford C. Bernstein & Company LLC.

（操作員說明）Mark Moerdler，Sanford C. Bernstein & Company LLC。

Thank you very much, Alexandra. Welcome on board. Dominik, why do you think that you are not showing any signs of macro impact that others are calling out? Could this be a timing issue in terms of the flow through through the pipeline? And could it be a worry for next year? Or is it just simply the way you're executing or the business model? Any color would be appreciated.

非常感謝你，亞歷珊卓。歡迎登機。多明尼克，你為什麼認為你沒有表現出任何其他人所說的宏觀影響的跡象？就通過管道的流量而言，這可能是時間問題嗎？這會成為明年的一個擔憂嗎？或者這只是你的執行方式或商業模式？任何顏色都會受到讚賞。

Yeah, I mean, I can go first. And then please, Dominik, also share your feedback. Mark, indeed, we have seen a fantastic performance in half-year one, and now entering half-year two, we see a very healthy pipeline. And pipeline means sales pipeline, but also I see a very strong innovation pipeline.

是的，我是說，我可以先走。然後，多明尼克，也請分享您的回饋。馬克，確實，我們在第一年半看到了出色的表現，現在進入第二年半，我們看到了一個非常健康的管道。管道意味著銷售管道，但我也看到了非常強大的創新管道。

When you sit together with our product owners and see what we are delivering on GenAI use cases and the customers who are sharing their feedback early on, it's pretty exciting. They see a ton of value and you have seen now in Q2 already the first impact of business AI on our numbers.

當您與我們的產品負責人坐在一起，看到我們在 GenAI 用例上提供的內容以及早期分享回饋的客戶時，這非常令人興奮。他們看到了巨大的價值，你現在已經在第二季度看到了商業人工智慧對我們數據的首次影響。

And then second, what I also see clearly working now is the best of suite. Four years back, we were rightfully criticized for having a bunch of best-of-breed solutions. But when you want to have a high-quality AI, when you want to steer your business end to end, when you want to connect your commerce and your omnichannel with supply chain, and when you want to connect your procurement with the warehousing, I mean, that all comes together on BTP.

其次，我現在也清楚看到，這是最好的套件。四年前，我們因擁有大量最佳解決方案而受到了理所當然的批評。但是，當你想要擁有高品質的人工智慧時，當你想要端到端引導你的業務時，當你想要將你的商務和全通路與供應鏈連接起來時，當你想要將當採購與倉儲連接時，我意思是，所有這些都在 BTP 上匯集在一起。

And I would say we are also just at the beginning. Please don't forget, when customers are using their ECC solutions or their on-premise monolithic ERP solution today, that doesn't mean that they use all the modules in the past. And now, with our land-and-expand strategy, we are clearly -- a motion the customers are really landing, and then they get that they have to connect the different parts of their company and the different parts of the supply chain. And that's why we also stay confident for the second half of the year.

我想說我們也才剛開始。請不要忘記，當客戶今天使用他們的 ECC 解決方案或本地整體 ERP 解決方案時，這並不意味著他們使用過去的所有模組。現在，透過我們的落地和擴張策略，我們清楚地表明，客戶正在真正落地這項動議，然後他們意識到必須將公司的不同部分和供應鏈的不同部分連接起來。這就是為什麼我們對下半年也要保持信心。

Dominik?

多明尼克？

Yeah. Maybe just to add some numbers. I mean, you have heard us talk and comment about this cloud ERP suite growth now at 33% in Q2, about 30% for 10 quarters in a row. What I want to call out is that the dilutive effect of both the extension suite and infrastructure-as-a-service is going down just from a mix point of view.

是的。也許只是添加一些數字。我的意思是，您已經聽到我們談論和評論雲端 ERP 套件在第二季度的成長率為 33%，連續 10 個季度約為 30%。我想指出的是，僅從混合的角度來看，擴展套件和基礎設施即服務的稀釋效應正在下降。

A year ago, these two items in the cloud revenue mix represented about 23%. Now that's only 18%. And if you then look at the kind of delta and growth between the two, you will see that the dilutive effect last year -- no, sorry, for this year, with the mix we had last year, if you do a year-on-year comparison, you have to start with the mix last year and then look at the different growth rates. So the dilutive effect on past year's mixes 8 percentage points.

一年前，這兩項在雲端收入組合中約佔 23%。現在只有 18%。然後，如果你看看兩者之間的增量和增長，你會發現去年的稀釋效應 - 不，對不起，今年，我們去年的混合效應，如果你做一年年度比較，你必須從去年的組合開始，然後看看不同的成長率。所以去年混合的稀釋效應是8個百分點。

Now, if you just apply to the same delta in growth between Cloud ERP suite and just assume that the rest would continue to be in a similar growth rate on the other now 18%, this dilutive effect would go down to 6%. So what you see here is that the mix is really playing all favor and then combined with all the factors Christian is mentioning and that very unique feature that we can convert all this installed base, which is really scrambling now for productivity and sees AI and the offering we have as a big driver for that.

現在，如果您僅應用雲端 ERP 套件之間相同的成長增量，並假設其餘套件將繼續保持與其他套件類似的成長率（18%），那麼這種稀釋效應將降至 6%。所以你在這裡看到的是，這種混合確實發揮了所有作用，然後結合克里斯蒂安提到的所有因素，以及我們可以轉換所有這些安裝基礎的非常獨特的功能，這現在確實在爭奪生產力，並看到人工智慧和我們為此提供了一個重要的驅動力。

Adam Wood, Morgan Stanley.

亞當伍德，摩根士丹利。

Hey, Christian. Hi, Dominik. Thanks for the question. My congratulations on another good quarter.

嘿，克里斯蒂安。嗨，多明尼克。謝謝你的提問。我祝賀又一個季度表現出色。

Maybe just on a global business AI side. Christian, you've clearly flagged this as a big driver. Is this a general desire of the customer base to be able to adopt the technologies that you deliver, given they're going to have to migrate every few years they want to start that now and that's accelerating the export move? Or are you seeing a couple of key use cases that are really resonating with the base? And if so, could you talk us through what they are, please? Thank you.

也許只是在全球商業人工智慧方面。克里斯蒂安，你已經明確地將其標記為一個重要的驅動因素。客戶群是否普遍希望能夠採用您提供的技術，因為他們每隔幾年就必須遷移一次，他們想現在就開始遷移，這會加速出口趨勢？或者您看到了一些真正與基礎產生共鳴的關鍵用例？如果是這樣，您能告訴我們它們是什麼嗎？謝謝。

Adam, what we clearly see resonating very well, I mean, we have now the first use cases live for Joule and HR and the finance and the supply chain space. Everything what we do in order management is already enabled via Joule. And the end users will benefit a lot on efficiency gains. They do a lot of content search. No matter if it's HR content or actually travel or supply chain-related content, that is also of course a massive efficiency boost.

Adam，我們清楚地看到了很好的共鳴，我的意思是，我們現在擁有 Joule 和人力資源以及財務和供應鏈領域的第一個用例。我們在訂單管理中所做的一切都已透過 Joule 啟用。最終用戶將從效率提升中受益匪淺。他們進行了大量的內容搜尋。無論是人力資源內容或是實際的旅行或供應鏈相關內容，這當然也會帶來巨大的效率提升。

And then last but not least, also what we see everything around document management. I mentioned the Concur example where 150,000 end users already benefit today from embedded AI, but really by itemizing the hotel bills and processing it real time automatically in the system.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是我們所看到的有關文件管理的一切。我提到了 Concur 範例，其中 150,000 名最終用戶如今已從嵌入式 AI 中受益，但實際上是透過逐項列出飯店帳單並在系統中自動即時處理來受益。

And then second, everything what you do around supplier, contract management, employee contract, customer contract, I mean, we by ourselves, I mentioned it, we see already now massive efficiency gains because all the customer contracts are coming in and there are many, which is positive. They are getting screened via our system. So we need way less people on all these compliance checks, the web work checks, the document checks.

其次，你圍繞著供應商、合約管理、員工合約、客戶合約所做的一切，我的意思是，我們自己，我提到過，我們現在已經看到了巨大的效率提升，因為所有的客戶合約都進來了，而且有很多，這是積極的。他們正在透過我們的系統進行篩選。因此，我們在所有這些合規性檢查、網路工作檢查、文件檢查方面需要的人員都少得多。

Closing the books will become more easier. And these are the typical use cases. So document, content, analytics, and of course, just by taking over certain tasks which are pretty manual today, these are the GenAI use cases which resonate really well, Adam.

合上書本將會變得更加容易。這些是典型的用例。因此，文件、內容、分析，當然，僅僅透過接管當今相當手動的某些任務，這些都是能引起很好共鳴的 GenAI 用例，Adam。

Michael Briest, UBS Limited.

麥可‧布里斯特，瑞銀集團。

Thanks. Good evening. Just in terms of the restructuring, I think that Sapphire's dominantly suggested it was higher take up in the US. But just looking at the increased expenses, it's EUR1 billion for 1,000 to 2,000 employees, that feels more like a European program.

謝謝。晚安.就重組而言，我認為藍寶石主要表明它在美國的佔有率更高。但光是看增加的費用，1,000 至 2,000 名員工需要 10 億歐元，感覺更像是歐洲計畫。

Can you give some sense of where the people will be leaving from? And looking at the second half, you've banked a very strong profit performance and you're just beginning to see people leave now. Is there upside risk, you'd say, to 2024 profits as well as '25, given the expanded program? Thanks.

您能透露一下人們將從哪裡離開嗎？看看下半年，你已經獲得了非常強勁的利潤表現，但現在才開始看到人們離開。您可能會說，考慮到擴大的計劃，2024 年和 25 年的利潤是否有上行風險？謝謝。

The phasing, as we mentioned, has been very positive in Q2. Q2 is a little bit of a kind of abnormal quarter because we've seen a lot of reduction. And to your right, especially in those countries where we had either fast voluntary measures like in the US, but also non-voluntary measures, frankly. So these people have been on average leaving early May. So we have been seeing big relief for May, June, two months out of three in the quarter while the hiring has been more gradual.

正如我們所提到的，第二季的階段性非常積極。第二季有點不正常，因為我們看到了很多下降。在你的右邊，特別是在那些我們要么像美國那樣採取快速自願措施的國家，但坦白說，也有非自願措施。所以這些人平均五月初就離開了。因此，我們看到五月、六月以及本季三個月中的兩個月出現了大幅緩解，而招募則更加漸進。

And now you'll see the hiring actually accelerate because this kind of initiatives to hire are a little bit more back-end loaded. They take some time. You might have noticed that while we increase the reductions by 1,000 to 2,000 positions being affected, we are still keeping the target for the full year constant. So that means there is a significant ramp up in head count.

現在你會看到招募實際上在加速，因為這種招募舉措的後端負載要多一些。他們需要一些時間。您可能已經注意到，雖然我們將受影響職位的削減幅度增加了 1,000 至 2,000 個，但我們仍保持全年目標不變。因此，這意味著員工人數大幅增加。

So from that perspective, what we do see is that we have been of course seeing more departures on the relatively expensive German voluntary early retirement programs, but these are also expensive resources and we also use the opportunity to think about skill mix, location mix to improve the profitability. And based on that, we have increased now the ambition for 2025 by this EUR200 million you've seen in the press release.

因此，從這個角度來看，我們確實看到，我們當然看到更多人離開相對昂貴的德國自願提前退休計劃，但這些也是昂貴的資源，我們也利用這個機會考慮技能組合、地點組合提高盈利能力。在此基礎上，我們現在將 2025 年的目標增加了 2 億歐元，您可以在新聞稿中看到。

So that's the story. We feel pretty confident about our profitability this year. Yes, the remaining to do doesn't look overwhelming, so maybe prudent.

這就是故事。我們對今年的獲利能力非常有信心。是的，剩下的事情看起來並不繁重，所以也許要謹慎。

I just want to call out one thing. We had reasonably still okay decline in software, 27% decline in Q2, which was 24% by the way last year. So the comps have been kind of similar. Now we had extremely favorable software mix last year with 10% decline, and we anticipate that to decelerate.

我只想喊出一件事。我們的軟體下降幅度還算可以，第二季下降了 27%，去年下降了 24%。所以這些比較有點類似。現在，我們去年的軟體組合非常有利，下降了 10%，我們預計這一趨勢將會放緩。

So now, of course, it's always hard to bring software revenue, as you know. But I think we don't want to bet our guidance on very frothy development there. So that gives us certainly some protection for this year. And it also puts us in a strong position to negotiate with customers and software to be commercially robust and to really push our strategic direction into the cloud.

當然，現在要帶來軟體收入總是很困難，正如你所知。但我認為我們不想把我們的指導押在非常泡沫化的發展上。因此，這無疑為我們今年提供了一些保護。它還使我們處於與客戶和軟體談判的有利地位，以實現商業穩健，並真正將我們的策略方向推向雲端。

And maybe, Michael, on the Trafford program overall, we are very diligently out on the future workforce planning of SAP. We really want to use this moment now to invest and have where we targeted in future growth areas. And we are bringing on board data scientists, we're bringing on board all of this architecture to further enrich the Wise journey for our customers, while of course, also like Dominik mentioned, we are optimizing our location mix.

邁克爾，也許就特拉福德整體計劃而言，我們正在非常努力地制定 SAP 未來的勞動力規劃。我們真的想利用現在的時機進行投資，並在未來的成長領域實現我們的目標。我們正在引入資料科學家，我們正在引入所有這些架構，以進一步豐富我們客戶的 Wise 旅程，當然，也像多明尼克提到的那樣，我們正在優化我們的位置組合。

I mean, for many years, we worked on that. And now we have a unique chance to really optimize also the location and the skill mix. And so far, the program is really a success, and we are very happy with the execution so far.

我的意思是，我們多年來一直致力於此。現在我們有一個獨特的機會來真正優化位置和技能組合。到目前為止，該計劃確實取得了成功，我們對迄今為止的執行情況感到非常滿意。

Mohammed Moawalla, Goldman Sachs .

穆罕默德·莫阿瓦拉，高盛。

Good evening. Thank you. Hi, Christian. Hey, Dominik. My question, Dominik, is you alluded to some working capital savings that you started to see as well. I'm curious on as you look at the free cash flow development, you're obviously being able to reiterate the EUR8 billion despite the additional restructuring charges, but also some of the improved EBIT improvements. So I'm just curious to understand where we are. Are we still early in that and the longevity around and more of the specific initiatives?

晚安.謝謝。嗨，克里斯蒂安。嘿，多明尼克。多明尼克，我的問題是，您提到您也開始看到一些營運資金節省。我很好奇，當你觀察自由現金流的發展時，你顯然能夠重申 80 億歐元，儘管有額外的重組費用，但也有一些息稅前利潤的改善。所以我只是好奇地想了解我們現在的處境。我們是否仍處於早期階段，以及更多具體措施的長期性？

And sort of link to that also, as you look to reinvest and you talked about kind of reskilling, how do you look at sort of savings dropping to the bottom line versus the quantum of reinvestment back into business over the next two years? Thank you.

與此也有某種聯繫，當您尋求再投資並談到某種再培訓時，您如何看待未來兩年內儲蓄下降到底線與再投資回企業的數量？謝謝。

I think with regards to free cashflow, yes, you have seen that the payouts for restructuring have increased, so to three billion approximately.

我認為關於自由現金流，是的，你已經看到重組支出增加了，大約達到三十億。

I think, Kim, with regards to free cash flow, yes, you have seen that the payouts for restructuring have increased, so to EUR3 billion approximately if everything is added up for this wave and we've done. And nevertheless, we keep both our outlook for 2024 and the ambition for '25.

我認為，Kim，關於自由現金流，是的，您已經看到重組支出有所增加，因此，如果將這一波的所有內容加起來並且我們已經完成，則約為 30 億歐元。儘管如此，我們仍保持對 2024 年的展望和 25 年的雄心壯志。

The restructuring has also some benefits. So that doesn't explain everything. You're right, there were also some working capital improvements. So we made good progress maybe a little faster than what we've thought. And now I would caution that beyond '25, the cash conversion is hard to improve rapidly because we are really benefiting a lot from '24, '25 in that -- from a change on stock-based compensation. That gives us a big boost on cash conversion.

重組也有一些好處。所以這並不能解釋一切。你是對的，營運資金也有所改善。所以我們取得了良好的進展，可能比我們想像的還要快一些。現在我要提醒的是，在 25 年後，現金轉換很難迅速改善，因為我們確實從 24、25 中受益匪淺——從基於股票的薪酬的變化中受益。這極大地促進了我們的現金轉換。

And then we are actually converting at a very, very good level. And from thereon, we actually need some gradual further improvement on working capital to compensate the fact that this kind of tailwind from stock-based compensation as percent of revenues will actually be diluted a little bit over time due to strong growth. And we don't think that stock-based compensation will grow at the same rate as the top line. So that's the story on the cash flow.

然後我們實際上正在以非常非常好的水平進行轉換。從那時起，我們實際上需要進一步逐步改善營運資本，以彌補這樣一個事實：由於強勁的增長，這種來自股票薪酬佔收入百分比的順風實際上會隨著時間的推移而被稀釋一點。我們認為以股票為基礎的薪酬不會以與營收相同的速度成長。這就是現金流的故事。

Now the second question was the skilling and how it's going with the cost. I mean, you recall that we said the big heavy lifting in terms of catchup is to get to '25. The run rate savings, we believe, will be there pretty much January 1, 2025. There are some later restructuring, but it's really moderate.

現在第二個問題是技能以及成本如何。我的意思是，你還記得我們說過追趕的重任是要達到 25 歲嗎？我們相信，運行率節省將在 2025 年 1 月 1 日左右實現。

We've accrued EUR2.9 billion, so this means these offers out people we've made commitments. There is a certain error range around it because we still don't have the firm commitment from all people. There are expectation values in there, but it's not a huge variance we expect. So line share will be done.

我們已經累積了 29 億歐元，這意味著這些為我們所承諾的人員提供了機會。存在著一定的誤差範圍，因為我們還沒有得到所有人的堅定承諾。那裡有期望值，但它並不是我們期望的巨大差異。這樣線路共享就完成了。

For instance, in the largest country, the way it will work is that a lot of people will still be on payroll through end of this year, so December 31. And on that basis, we will have a head count. But January 1, there will be a lot of people exiting. So that gives us that big lift in 2025.

例如，在最大的國家，它的運作方式是，到今年年底，即 12 月 31 日，許多人仍在領取工資。但1月1日，將會有很多人退出。因此，這為我們帶來了 2025 年的巨大提升。

So you see line share of run rate savings in '25 from the program, and then it will be a more gradual grinding, leveraging economies of scale coming to a ratio of cost increase, total expenses increase to revenue increase, which is more in line with our competitors at about 80% to 90%. That's the way we think about it.

因此，您可以從該計劃中看到 25 年運行率節省的線份額，然後這將是一個更加漸進的磨練，利用規模經濟來達到成本增加、總費用增加與收入增加的比率，這更符合我們的競爭對手約為80% 至90%。這就是我們的想法。

So don't expect that we can repeat that every year. It's really then a more gradual, slower increase. But come 2025, we think we've already made big strides in terms of closing the gap to where we see competition in terms of free cash flow margin and also growth, frankly.

所以不要指望我們每年都能重複這樣的事情。這實際上是一個更漸進、更緩慢的成長。但坦白說，到 2025 年，我們認為我們已經在縮小與自由現金流利潤率和成長方面的競爭差距方面取得了重大進展。

Jackson Ader, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Jackson Ader，KeyBanc 資本市場。

Hi. Thanks for taking our questions, guys. Mine is really about cloud migration. Christian, you mentioned I think earlier in the year that some customers were actually looking to pull forward their move to the cloud ERP suite. Maybe thinking about going in 2025, trying to go in 2024. And I'm just curious whether that type of pull forward demand is still holding up here as some other software companies have seen the macro environment cool.

你好。謝謝你們回答我們的問題，夥伴們。我的主題其實是關於雲端遷移的。 Christian，您提到過，我認為今年早些時候，一些客戶實際上希望推進向雲端 ERP 套件的遷移。也許考慮在 2025 年進行，嘗試在 2024 年進行。

Yeah. I mean, I already mentioned the very positive pipeline momentum we have and that actually includes both. We see the install base moving to the cloud. Sapphire helped after, say, in my 20th Sapphire, say, experience at SAP, SAP, there was never a better feedback from our customers about the product itself, the best of suite, how everything comes together, and then also how SAP has now more skin in the game when it comes to the transformation.

是的。我的意思是，我已經提到了我們擁有的非常積極的管道勢頭，這實際上包括兩者。我們看到安裝基礎正在轉移到雲端。比方說，在我在 SAP 工作的第 20 次 Sapphire 經歷之後，Sapphire 提供了幫助，我們的客戶從未對產品本身、最好的套件、一切如何組合在一起以及 SAP 現在如何提供更好的反饋。在轉型方面，更多的是參與其中。

I mean, we are not sitting anymore on the sideline. We are actively helping, and that resonates extremely well. And then when you see the channel, and I guess there is even much more room to grow going forward SAP has a very solid channel business. This is also a highly profitable sales channel, but we see now way more opportunities to further expand that channel.

我的意思是，我們不再袖手旁觀。我們正在積極提供幫助，這引起了非常好的共鳴。然後，當你看到頻道時，我想 SAP 擁有非常穩固的通路業務，未來還有更大的發展空間。這也是一個高利潤的銷售管道，但我們現在看到了更多進一步擴大該管道的機會。

There are a lot of resellers knocking on our door because they see this modular best of suite. This is also a highly profitable business for them. And so we are also expanding our partner territories. We will do that also throughout 2025. So both from an install base move and as further to also accelerate our net new customer growth, we remain very optimistic for the year and for 2025.

有很多經銷商來敲我們的門，因為他們看到了這款模組化的最佳套件。這對他們來說也是一門高利潤的生意。因此，我們也在擴大我們的合作夥伴領域。我們也將在 2025 年做到這一點。

Toby Ogg, JPMorgan.

托比‧奧格，摩根大通。

Yeah, hi. Thanks for the question. Just coming back on the backlog growth of 28% in the quarter, clearly as we've talked about, there's obviously a difficult macro environment in software, and I know there are other factors like migration credits in the mix for you as well. So did you see any incremental headwinds from the macro in the quarter? And did you see any tailwinds from the migration credits?

是的，嗨。謝謝你的提問。剛剛回到本季 28% 的積壓成長，顯然正如我們所討論的，軟體領域顯然存在困難的宏觀環境，而且我知道還有其他因素，例如遷移積分等。那麼，您是否看到本季宏觀經濟帶來的任何增量阻力？您是否看到了移民信貸帶來的任何推動作用？

And then just on the backlog for the second half, what are the drivers of your confidence around the backlog growth into the second half and particularly into Q4, where the comps start to get a little bit more difficult? Thank you.

然後，就下半年的積壓而言，您對下半年積壓成長的信心驅動因素是什麼，特別是進入第四季度，競爭開始變得更加困難？謝謝。

I mean, as every quarter, you win a few upside deals and you have a few slippages, but all of these slippages were not macro related. Actually, we had a good start in July. We saw that some of the deals slipped were already signed now, so we didn't see any kind of macroeconomic impacts.

我的意思是，就像每個季度一樣，你會贏得一些上行交易，也會有一些滑點，但所有這些滑點都與宏觀無關。事實上，我們在七月有一個好的開始。我們看到一些失敗的交易現在已經簽署了，所以我們沒有看到任何宏觀經濟影響。

Now you are mentioning a good point. And the cloud backlog is super strong, but this also then gives us another opportunity. In the cloud backlogs, it's a ramp of Wise deals. First year, 10%, 20% consumption, then we are going up to 40%, and then we do the rest in year three, year four.

現在你提到了一個很好的觀點。而且雲積壓非常強大，但這也給了我們另一個機會。在雲積壓中，明智的交易不斷增加。第一年，10%、20%的消費，然後我們會增加到40%，然後我們在第三年、第四年做剩下的事情。

And what we typically also do is to upsell. I mean, these customers ideally are growing their business. So we, of course, will onboard more users. But what we also do, what I mentioned, and that's now really coming together under Thomas Saueressig's leadership with the Wise methodology.

我們通常還會做的就是追加銷售。我的意思是，理想情況下這些客戶正在發展他們的業務。因此，我們當然會吸引更多用戶。但我們也做了什麼，我提到的，現在在 Thomas Saueressig 的領導下，用 Wise 方法論真正走到了一起。

So take Exxon. We start with success factors, hundreds of thousands of users. We modernize payroll; we modernize the commission system; we go finance. Then we go downstream. And then we are working our way through the supply chain.

以埃克森為例。我們從成功因素開始，即數十萬用戶。我們實現薪資現代化；我們使佣金制度現代化；我們去金融。然後我們就往下游走。然後我們正在整個供應鏈中努力。

And what you see in such a transformation journey, if we explain it right and if we lead them, if we guide them together with our SI partners, you can see that suddenly we are talking about transportation, we are talking about warehousing, we are talking about demand and supply, capabilities which not were all used in the on-premise days. And so we see this land and expand. And that's for the LE, for the large enterprise space.

你在這樣的轉型之旅中看到的，如果我們解釋得正確，如果我們領導他們，如果我們與我們的SI 合作夥伴一起指導他們，你會發現突然我們在談論運輸，我們在談論倉儲，我們在談論運輸。所以我們看到了這片土地並不斷擴張。這適用於 LE，適用於大型企業空間。

And now, when we talk about the SME, we are putting a lot of emphasis now in this transformation also on our channel. Because when you look at our sales ratio, the channel is key. We need more channel business in the mid-market. And there, we are now just enabling our customers to not only sell finance, sell HR. They say, let's do procurement.

現在，當我們談論中小企業時，我們現在非常重視我們的通路轉型。因為當你看我們的銷售比例時，通路是關鍵。我們需要更多中端市場的通路業務。在那裡，我們現在不僅讓我們的客戶能夠銷售財務，還能銷售人力資源。他們說，我們來做採購吧。

And then because of the great integration capabilities, we have a seeding, a commercial model where we seed in a few units for entering the procurement space, for entering the travel space. And then we can actually provision the system on the fly. So mid-market customers can be live after they landed with finance. They can be live from travel in two weeks from now in procurement.

然後，由於強大的整合能力，我們有一種播種，一種商業模式，我們播種一些單位來進入採購領域，進入旅行領域。然後我們實際上可以動態配置系統。因此，中端市場客戶在獲得金融服務後就可以活躍起來。從現在開始，兩週後他們就可以在採購中擺脫旅行的困擾。

And then we're going to move our way to expand our footprint. And that's the same module. And this is where we are massively also now expanding our partner channel. And that works. And this is also somehow not yet reflected in the cloud backlog because clearly, of course, there is way more business towards to gain during such a transformation journey.

然後我們將繼續擴大我們的足跡。這是同一個模組。這也是我們現在正在大規模擴展合作夥伴管道的地方。那行得通。這在某種程度上還沒有反映在雲端積壓中，因為當然，在這樣的轉型之旅中，顯然有更多的業務可以獲得。

And maybe one thing on the cloud backlog, we always talk about renewal rates and the health of the business. I mean, you can rely on the statement that once a customer made this move to the cloud and you're wanting the most mission-critical systems of your company in the cloud, of course, this business is sticky. It was sticky in the on-premise days and you see it in the support revenue. And it will be also sticky on the cloud side of the house, despite, of course, it's now a very modular stack.

也許關於雲積壓的一件事，我們總是談論續訂率和業務的健康狀況。我的意思是，您可以相信這樣的說法：一旦客戶遷移到雲，並且您希望將公司最關鍵的任務系統放在雲端中，當然，這項業務就會具有黏性。它在本地部署的日子裡很粘，你可以在支援收入中看到它。當然，儘管它現在是一個非常模組化的堆棧，但它也將粘在房子的雲端。

Charles Brennan, Jefferies.

查爾斯·布倫南，杰弗里斯。

Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. Can I ask two, if I can? Firstly, just a question on the enterprise architects that you're going to be reallocating to your customers. There are some concern in the channel that you don't have enough of them. Can you give us some numbers around how many you've got today and how many you think you're going to need and how are you going to close that gap?

是的，嗨。感謝您提出我的問題。如果可以的話，我可以問兩個嗎？首先，有一個關於您將重新分配給客戶的企業架構師的問題。頻道中有人擔心您沒有足夠的資源。您能否給我們一些數字，說明您今天擁有多少數量以及您認為將需要多少數量，以及您將如何縮小這一差距？

And then secondly, just as a financial follow-up. Dominik, you've given us some moving parts on the cash flow. If I think about your comments that it's going to be hard to improve cash conversion going into 2026, is there any reason that we don't take the EUR8 billion starting number from '25 add operating profit after tax, add some assumption for this mid-triple-digit millions restructuring spend in '25 to get us to our '26 number?

其次，作為財務後續行動。多米尼克，你給了我們一些有關現金流的動態部分。如果我考慮到您的評論，即進入2026 年將很難提高現金轉換率，那麼我們是否有任何理由不採用25 年的80 億歐元起始數字，加上稅後營業利潤，並為此中期添加一些假設- '25 年的三位數重組支出是為了讓我們達到 '26 年的數字？

I can start with the question on the enterprise architects. Important to mention is we don't start from zero. Now, when you look into our max attention offering, we had architects. Now we need to reskill them. Yes, but with BGP, our enterprise architect at the data layer with data sphere, the modular stack, we have to do reskilling and upskilling, but that works. And we already have also enterprise architects in our services team. So we are now moving them to our Wise customers.

我可以從關於企業架構師的問題開始。值得一提的是，我們並不是從零開始。現在，當你看看我們最大的關注度產品時，我們有建築師。現在我們需要重新訓練他們。是的，但是對於 BGP，我們在資料層和模組化堆疊的資料層的企業架構師，我們必須進行技能再培訓和技能提升，但這是有效的。我們的服務團隊中也已經有了企業架構師。因此，我們現在將它們轉移給我們的 Wise 客戶。

Second, we have very great academies for sales, for services, for product engineering. And there, especially on the product academy and the services academy, we are now doubling down, especially on this enterprise architect skills. So there will be further resources now coming out of our academies, plus we are doing external hiring. And there the Trafford program of course helps a lot and that we see higher tuition in places where we don't need the skills anymore in the future. And now we can lift and shift and further invest into the skills what we need, and one of those is of course the enterprise architect.

其次，我們擁有非常出色的銷售、服務和產品工程學院。在那裡，特別是在產品學院和服務學院，我們現在正在加倍努力，特別是在企業架構師技能方面。因此，我們的學院現在將會提供更多資源，而且我們正在進行外部招聘。特拉福德計畫當然有很大幫助，我們看到未來不再需要這些技能的地方學費更高。現在我們可以提升、轉變並進一步投資於我們需要的技能，其中之一當然是企業架構師。

And what is so important with the enterprise architect? Of course, Accenture, Deloitte, EY, PwC, they are delivering and they are doing the migration itself. But it's so, so important for us, with regard to land and expand that we are guiding the customer on how to build a semantic layer with SAP, on how to connect the dots on the business processes and how to infuse workflow automation with SAP on the BTP, how to use the integration suite.

對企業架構師來說，什麼如此重要？當然，埃森哲、德勤、安永、普華永道，他們正在提供服務，並且正在自行進行遷移。但這對我們來說非常非常重要，在落地和擴展方面，我們正在指導客戶如何使用 SAP 建立語義層、如何連接業務流程上的點以及如何將工作流程自動化與 SAP 結合起來。套件。

And the customers are so excited. I mean, the feedback was so, so good. And that also helps to make our Wise offer more attractive. Yeah, because others are hearing that and say, hey, SAP is really doing a business transformation. They are not only doing a technical migration. And so that was a great move. The high-wing machine is on. And we will further increase the coverage of our Wise customer base in the next months.

顧客們都很興奮。我的意思是，回饋非常非常好。這也有助於使我們的 Wise 報價更具吸引力。是的，因為其他人聽到這個消息後會說，嘿，SAP 確實在進行業務轉型。他們不僅僅是進行技術遷移。所以這是一個偉大的舉動。高翼機已開啟。我們將在接下來的幾個月內進一步擴大 Wise 客戶群的覆蓋範圍。

Dominik?

多明尼克？

On the bridge from '25 into '26, your logic is certainly quite straightforward, makes sense. But don't forget if you take EUR8.5 billion, so I add back basically the mid-triple-digit-million restructuring cash out, if you add kind of depolluted for that EUR8.5 billion cash flow in '25 and you divide that by 10.2, you come actually to 83% cash conversion.

在從'25到'26的橋樑上，你的邏輯當然非常簡單，有道理。但不要忘記，如果你拿 85 億歐元，所以我基本上加回了中三位數的重組現金，如果你加上 25 年 85 億歐元的去污染現金流，然後除以到10.2 時，現金轉化率實際上達到83%。

And of course, you may have to take the increment of operating profit has to be tax affected. And just the tax affecting gives you a lower cash conversion of that increment. And that's the challenge that you basically need to find other sources for that, not to see the cash conversion being actually diluted, so to speak. So that's the math. So your approach is actually a prudent approach, I would say.

當然，您可能必須考慮營業利潤的增量必須受到稅收影響。僅稅收影響就會使該增量的現金轉換率降低。這就是你基本上需要尋找其他來源的挑戰，而不是看到現金轉換實際上被稀釋，可以這麼說。這就是數學。所以我想說，你的做法其實是一種謹慎的做法。

Frederic Boulan, Bank of America.

弗雷德里克·博蘭，美國銀行。

Hi, good evening, Christian, Dominik, and Alexandra. If I can come back on the commentary in the release about Q4 being decisive for cloud revenue growth in 2025, can you clarify a little bit what you mean by that? There's specific caveats around that quarter. You will face a tougher comp in Q4, but the rest of the commentary is very bullish. It would be great to hear a bit more what you're trying to say here in that message around the side. Thank you.

嗨，晚上好，克里斯蒂安、多明尼克和亞歷山德拉。如果我能回顧新聞稿中關於第四季度對 2025 年雲端收入成長具有決定性作用的評論，您能澄清一下您的意思嗎？該季度有一些具體的警告。你將在第四季度面臨更艱難的比賽，但其餘的評論非常樂觀。如果能在旁邊的訊息中聽到更多您想表達的內容，那就太好了。謝謝。

Yeah, look, I mean, Q4 is always our biggest quarter with regard to order entries or also for cloud bookings. And and of course, pipeline looks good. When I compare the pipeline coverage this year compared to last year and last year, we had a very strong half-year two, it looks really good. But now we have to execute, and we want to see this execution now coming.

是的，我的意思是，第四季度始終是我們訂單輸入或雲端預訂方面最大的季度。當然，管道看起來不錯。當我將今年的管道覆蓋率與去年和去年相比時，我們有一個非常強勁的半年兩年，看起來非常好。但現在我們必須執行，我們希望看到執行現在即將到來。

And we executed really well in half-year two -- in half-year one, and now let's do it again in half-year two. But this is, of course, still up. And so we have to do it. That is comment related.

我們在第二年半、第一年半執行得非常好，現在讓我們在第二年半再做一次。但這當然還沒結束。所以我們必須這樣做。那是評論相關的。

More acknowledging from our perspective that all of you tell us how difficult the market is out there. And we just want to acknowledge that we will really watch the market. But for the time being, there's nothing that should come in our way, we think. But we don't want to skin the bear before we really killed it.

從我們的角度更承認你們所有人告訴我們市場有多困難。我們只想承認我們會真正關注市場。但我們認為，就目前而言，沒有任何事情會妨礙我們。但我們不想在真正殺死熊之前剝它的皮。

It's clear that mathematically, there is an impact of what we do in Q4 for '25, and the full year, actually, it's still the full year, not much, but also for '24. But it's just to recognize that you don't want to come across as being completely carried away and thinking nothing can happen to us. We just want to be very cautious and prudent about what the environment is doing. But so far, we don't see these bumps in the road that so many others are talking about.

很明顯，從數學上講，我們在第四季度所做的事情對 25 年和全年都有影響，實際上，它仍然是全年，影響不大，但對 24 年也是如此。但這只是要認識到，您不想給人留下完全忘乎所以、認為我們不會發生任何事情的印象。我們只是想對環境正在發生的事情保持非常謹慎和謹慎的態度。但到目前為止，我們還沒有看到許多其他人談論的道路上的坎坷。

Yes.

是的。

Sven Merkt, Barclays Capital.

斯文·默克特，巴克萊資本。

Great. Good evening. Thanks for taking my question. I was wondering if you can comment on the growth of transaction-related cloud revenues in the quarter and the outlook for H2. And particularly interested if there's anything in terms of comms we should consider for the second half. Thank you.

偉大的。晚安.感謝您提出我的問題。我想知道您是否可以評論一下本季與交易相關的雲端收入的成長以及下半年的前景。特別有趣的是我們下半年是否應該考慮通訊方面的任何事情。謝謝。

In terms of comms?

在通訊方面？

Yeah, the comps between half-year one and the half-year two. I mean, what we are seeing in the forecast is actually US, we have a minus 2% growth in Q2 on transactional cloud revenue. So far, we see actually a similar trend in half-year two, slightly better. What we see in the west of the Concur business is actually really good on the subscription side. I mentioned the GenAI use cases.

是的，第一半年和第二年半之間的比較。我的意思是，我們在預測中看到的實際上是美國，第二季交易雲端收入成長了負 2%。到目前為止，我們實際上看到了兩年半的類似趨勢，稍微好一點。我們在 Concur 業務西部看到的情況在訂閱方面實際上非常好。我提到了 GenAI 用例。

So Concur business subscription is doing well on the transaction. It also depends a little bit on the economy. I mean, what do our customers do? How much do they travel? How much will they rely on contingent workers for field class? So far, what you can expect is more or less a similar, slightly better performance in half-year two. That's what the current forecast says.

所以Concur商業訂閱在交易上表現不錯。這也有點取決於經濟。我的意思是，我們的客戶做什麼？他們旅行多少？他們在多大程度上依賴臨時工進行現場培訓？到目前為止，你可以期待第二年半的表現或多或少相似，但稍微好一點。這就是當前的預測所說的。

And the good news is, by the way, (multiple speakers)

順便說一句，好消息是（多個發言者）

Sorry, let me just add to that, please. The good news is that transactional revenues, as percent of revenues, given what Christian just described, are continuously diluted. So the impact in the bridge from current cloud backlog to cloud revenues is getting smaller and smaller. You see that already in the first half of this year compared to last year's impact.

抱歉，請讓我補充一下。好消息是，鑑於克里斯蒂安剛才所描述的，交易收入佔收入的百分比正在不斷稀釋。因此，目前雲積壓對雲端收入的影響越來越小。與去年的影響相比，今年上半年已經出現了這種情況。

And now moving to second half, it's getting smaller. And then of course in 25, it's getting even smaller because if you're not really kicking back into significant growth there, it becomes a smaller and smaller part. And I also want to highlight at the risk of stating the obvious, these kind of slightly down numbers in transaction revenues, they are within Cloud ERP suite growth. So the 33% we print there is already absorbing that.

現在進入下半場，它變得越來越小。當然，到了 25 年，它會變得更小，因為如果你沒有真正恢復顯著成長，它就會變得越來越小。我還想強調，儘管交易收入的數字略有下降，但它們是在雲端 ERP 套件的成長中出現的。所以我們印刷的 33% 已經吸收了這一點。

Balajee Tirupati, Citi Investment Research.

Balajee Tirupati，花旗投資研究部。

Hi, thank you. Two questions from my side. Firstly, on the ongoing transformation program. Given the program would conclude in first half of 2025, would all the benefit of program be already visible in the year, or would it be fair to assume that some of the benefits will also move to 2026 and '26 will be the year -- first year where full benefit of the program will be visible?

嗨，謝謝你。我這邊有兩個問題。首先，關於正在進行的轉型計劃。鑑於該計劃將於 2025 年上半年結束，該計劃的所有好處是否已經在今年顯現出來，或者可以公平地假設一些好處也將轉移到 2026 年，而 26 年將是——第一年該計劃的全部效益將顯現出來嗎？

And second question on the AI side. We have seen some of the other global software peers and [peers] indicate that there has been some delay in the plan decision-making as they have been being options with regards to AI development. Are you seeing any such signs from customer side as well? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於人工智慧方面的。我們看到其他一些全球軟體同行和[同行]表示計劃決策存在一些延遲，因為他們一直是人工智慧開發的選擇。您是否也從客戶方面看到過此類跡象？謝謝。

The connection was not very good, but let me try to answer your question. I mean, first, I guess your question was around is there any kind of restructuring left in 2025. And as Dominik said, the bulk of the program will be executed in 2024. Yes, there are -- some pieces are left, but this is a smaller share of the overall program.

連接不是很好，但讓我嘗試回答你的問題。我的意思是，首先，我猜你的問題是2025 年是否還剩下任何形式的重組。 正如多米尼克所說，該計劃的大部分內容將在2024 年執行。下一些部分，但是這個是整個程序中較小的一部分。

On the one weight savings, what you're going to see is of course, also the bulk of the one weight savings will be realized in 2025. But it's very important that this is not just a one-off program for one year. What we are doing with this program is also optimizing the cost base of SAP.

就單次減重而言，您當然會看到，單次減重的大部分也將在 2025 年實現。我們透過該計劃所做的也是優化 SAP 的成本基礎。

We are reducing a lot of skills. We are optimizing our location base and we are reallocating some, some, not all, some of the investments to our strategic growth areas. So that will also then lead in 2026 to come also in a better, more cost efficient structure in our P&L. And then second, of course, also, it will help us to further the growth on the top line.

我們正在減少很多技能。我們正在優化我們的位置基礎，我們正在將一些、一些（不是全部）投資重新分配到我們的策略成長領域。因此，這也將導致我們的損益表在 2026 年出現更好、更具成本效益的結構。其次，當然，這也將幫助我們進一步實現營收成長。

And the second question was really hard to understand. Can you repeat it?

而第二個問題確實很難理解。你能重複一下嗎？

Yes. The second question was more on clients decision-making process in peak of development around GenAI business -- business AI use cases. Some of your global peers have argued that there have been some delay in decision-making process on account of these developments while you are seeing some acceleration of tailwind because of embedded GenAI in your offering. So how should we see that? What is working for SAP versus some of the other global software companies? Thank you.

是的。第二個問題更涉及 GenAI 業務發展高峰期的客戶決策過程——商業人工智慧用例。您的一些全球同行認為，由於這些發展，決策過程出現了一些延遲，而由於您的產品中嵌入了 GenAI，您看到了順風車的一些加速。那我們該如何看待呢？與其他一些全球軟體公司相比，SAP 的優勢是什麼？謝謝。

Okay, okay. I guess I got a question now. I mean, first -- and we are deciding on our AI roadmap, especially also for GenAI. Now what we are looking at is first off on the telemetry data and the activities of our customers of our end users and the cloud.

好吧好吧。我想我現在有一個問題。我的意思是，首先，我們正在決定我們的 AI 路線圖，尤其是 GenAI 的路線圖。現在我們首先關注的是遙測資料以及最終用戶和雲端的客戶活動。

And we have a lot of insights. That's why a lot of the roadmap what we're having for our AI co-pilot Joule is really build on what to our end users do, how much efficiency gains can we do if we put Joule on top, what can we do on the analytics, where do we see a lot of analytical requests in the system.

我們有很多見解。這就是為什麼我們為 AI 副駕駛 Joule 制定的路線圖實際上是建立在最終用戶做什麼的基礎上的，如果我們將 Joule 放在首位，我們可以提高多少效率，我們可以在分析，我們在系統中哪裡可以看到大量的分析請求。

Second, on the embedded AI use cases. And before we start coding it, we always test it. We have industry consortiums, and we then test it for what kind of use cases work for energy, for oil and gas, what kind of use cases work for retail. I mentioned, for example, returns claims management. It's actually a big cost driver for many retailers. And there, we can help. There, we can actually embedded in the order management in the channel solutions of SAP. And so this is embedded.

其次，關於嵌入式人工智慧用例。在開始編碼之前，我們總是對其進行測試。我們有產業聯盟，然後測試哪些用例適用於能源、石油和天然氣，哪些用例適用於零售業。例如，我提到了退貨索賠管理。對於許多零售商來說，這實際上是一個巨大的成本驅動因素。在那裡，我們可以提供幫助。在那裡，我們實際上可以將訂單管理嵌入到SAP的通路解決方案中。所以這是嵌入的。

And then we actually do with Accenture, EY, Deloitte, and others, we have our GenAI hub, where especially large customers are coming to us and say, hey, in this part of the supply chain, we could see a high value for GenAI use case. And then we do prototyping, and then we build it via that GenAI hub.

然後我們實際上與埃森哲、安永、德勤和其他公司合作，我們有我們的 GenAI 中心，特別是大客戶來找我們說，嘿，在供應鏈的這一部分，我們可以看到 GenAI 的高價值用例。然後我們進行原型設計，然後透過 GenAI 中心建立它。

We give them native access to our data. We give them native access also to our data sources across our base. And then last but not least, of course, they can also benefit from the identity and the security layer. And there we build together very individual use cases. So that's in a nutshell how we decide and develop our GenAI use cases.

我們為他們提供對我們資料的本地存取權。我們還為他們提供對整個基地資料來源的本地存取權。最後但並非最不重要的一點是，他們當然也可以從身分和安全層中受益。在那裡，我們一起建立非常個人化的用例。簡而言之，這就是我們如何決定和開發 GenAI 用例。

Ben Castillo-Bernaus, Exane BNP Paribas.

本‧卡斯提略-貝爾瑙斯，法國巴黎銀行董事局局長。

Good evening. Thanks very much for taking my question. Just on the headcount, just coming back to your comments, obviously, an additional 1,000 to 2,000 impacted roles here, and you seem to be inferring the headcount will still end roughly flat. So more hiring, rehiring than initially planned. Curious what prompts that decision to hire more versus to drive further cost savings, given this is effectively a free pass within the existing restructuring plan.

晚安.非常感謝您提出我的問題。就員工數量而言，回到你的評論，顯然，這裡還有 1,000 到 2,000 個受影響的角色，你似乎推斷員工數量最終仍將大致持平。因此，招聘和重新招聘的人數比最初計劃的要多。令人好奇的是，是什麼促使我們決定僱用更多員工，而不是進一步節省成本，因為這實際上是現有重組計劃中的免費通行證。

And in terms of where you are hiring on those additional roles, could you talk about where those incremental hires are? Is this in the same areas you initially planned, or is this in different areas? Thank you.

就您在何處招募這些額外職位而言，您能否談談這些增量招募的情況？這是在您最初計劃的同一區域，還是在不同的區域？謝謝。

I mean, the way it works on the voluntary programs is in Germany, at least, that employees register their interest in participating, and then we can decide whether we accept it or not. And then again, the employee has the right to say, okay, I'll take it.

我的意思是，至少在德國，志願計劃的運作方式是，員工登記他們參與的興趣，然後我們可以決定是否接受。話又說回來，員工有權利說，好吧，我接受。

We have some quite good precedent information on how that should pan out. We've seen higher adoption so to speak than initially planned on voluntary program, also to some degree on voluntary early departure programs. And then on any of these cases, what we basically had to do is to judge whether there would be certain critical skills leaving and they would simply need to rehire one for one, in which case you would of course decline because there's no business case.

我們有一些關於如何實現這一目標的非常好的先例資訊。可以說，我們看到自願計畫的採用率比最初計畫的要高，在某種程度上自願提前離開計畫也是如此。然後，在任何這些情況下，我們基本上要做的就是判斷是否會有某些關鍵技能離開，他們只需要一對一地重新僱用，在這種情況下，你當然會拒絕，因為沒有商業案例。

If, however, we could combine it with a reskilling that we say, okay, maybe I can reduce that headcount now that I have the opportunity, but put it in a different skill set where you have even more scarcity or consolidate certain teams in regions which are frankly more cost effective, we can use these. Of course, the efficiency of that kind of rehiring is not as high as not replacing at all, but it's still there. And a couple of hundred million we added up basically the kind of partial derivative of saying more restructuring costs, but also more savings.

然而，如果我們可以將其與重新技能結合起來，我們會說，好吧，也許我現在有機會可以減少員工人數，但將其放在不同的技能組合中，在這些技能組合中，你會更稀缺或整合某些地區的團隊坦白說，這些更具成本效益，我們可以使用它們。當然，那種重新聘用的效率雖然不如根本不替換那麼高，但還是有的。我們加起來的幾億基本上是一種偏導數，即更多的重組成本，但也有更多的節省。

So the factor is a kind of ForEx factor, which is pretty similar to the overall package. It's not super quick because of the high cost of these restructuring programs and because we need to rehire in some areas, but we still have a business case on these incremental headcount reductions, even if we rehire because we do it in a more cost effective way than what was this status before, and sometimes we don't rehire at all.

所以該因子是一種外匯因子，與整體套件非常相似。由於這些重組計劃的成本很高，而且我們需要在某些領域重新招聘，所以這並不是很快，但我們仍然有關於這些增量裁員的商業案例，即使我們重新招聘是因為我們以更具成本以效益的方式進行招募與以前相比，有時我們根本不重新聘用。

Johannes Schaller, Deutsche Bank.

約翰內斯·夏勒，德意志銀行。

Yeah, thanks for taking my question. Another one on the efficiency program, I'm afraid. I wanted to understand a little bit better how you're thinking about this more medium term. And conceptually, I mean, I guess the increased number of people affected now is probably not that surprising. I think Christian already alluded maybe to that a little bit after Q1 that there may be some more areas of efficiency.

是的，謝謝你回答我的問題。恐怕還有一個關於效率計劃的。我想更了解您如何看待這個更中期的問題。從概念上講，我的意思是，我想現在受影響人數的增加可能並不令人驚訝。我認為克里斯蒂安可能在第一季之後就已經提到過，可能還有更多的效率領域。

But would you say we're really done now or how should we think about this going forward? I mean, we're in a scenario where your required skill set keeps on changing in the workforce. Probably you're introducing more AI tools within SAP becoming more effective. Is there scope to do more or how should we think about this on a maybe five-year view?

但你會說我們現在真的已經完成了嗎？我的意思是，我們面臨的情況是，您所需的技能在勞動力中不斷變化。也許您在 SAP 中引入了更多 AI 工具，變得更加有效。是否有做得更多的空間，或者我們應該如何從五年的角度來考慮這個問題？

I would say, I mean, yeah, -- thanks first of all for the question, Johannes. And the good piece is we are never running out of ideas. They're also not on efficiency.

我想說，我的意思是，是的，首先感謝約翰內斯提出這個問題。好的一點是我們永遠不會耗盡想法。他們也不注重效率。

When you look at what we did at the beginning of the year, we combined all these decentral COO teams in SAP. We centralized our cloud operations. And what we are going to see, and when you take, for example, the headcount out of the equation for a second, what we see of course we can gain huge synergies. When you see how we can streamline now operations, we can expand our digital marketing channel, connect it to our reseller channel in sales, or we can connect it to our back-office function, I mean, that will actually just unveil a lot of additional synergies just by really wanting SAP more end to end.

當你看看我們年初所做的事情時，我們將 SAP 中所有這些分散的 COO 團隊合併在一起。我們集中了雲端運營。我們將看到什麼，例如，當你暫時將員工人數排除在外時，我們所看到的當然可以獲得巨大的協同效應。當您看到我們如何簡化現在的營運時，我們可以擴展我們的數位行銷管道，將其連接到我們的銷售經銷商管道，或者我們可以將其連接到我們的後台功能，我的意思是，這實際上只會揭示許多僅透過真正希望 SAP 更加端到端來實現額外的協同效應。

And then we're going to infuse, of course, automation. When we talk about AI, coding, [up-up] development, we'll see a huge productivity gain. When you look into our support of the ticketing, of course, we're going to apply GenAI. We will automate a lot of the ticketing. Ticket-solving will be done, of course, also via our co-pilot.

當然，然後我們將注入自動化。當我們談論人工智慧、編碼、[up-up]開發時，我們將看到生產力的巨大提升。當您了解我們對票務的支援時，當然，我們將應用 GenAI。我們將使很多票務自動化。當然，票務解決也將透過我們的副駕駛完成。

And then, as I already mentioned, in contracting, we're going to apply it. We are now rolling it out. So overall, inside SAP, we are rolling out currently 30 AI use cases. And that's the way to go. And on the cloud cost margin, as we centralize our cloud operations under Thomas Saueressig, what we can do is we can harmonize the patching. We can harmonize the onboarding. We can harmonize all the different steps in the cloud lifecycle management.

然後，正如我已經提到的，在簽訂合約時，我們將應用它。我們現在正在推出它。總的來說，在 SAP 內部，我們目前正在推出 30 個人工智慧用例。這就是要走的路。在雲端成本利潤方面，當我們將雲端營運集中在 Thomas Saueressig 的領導下時，我們能做的就是協調修補程式。我們可以協調入職流程。我們可以協調雲端生命週期管理中的所有不同步驟。

And when you see that, when you see that we have 20 different core ERP products, that is of course also giving us more efficiency gains over time. And so these are the things which are already in the making, next to of course, the whole transformation on the headcount side with also the rehiring then in the strategic growth areas.

當你看到這一點時，當你看到我們擁有 20 種不同的核心 ERP 產品時，這當然也會隨著時間的推移為我們帶來更多的效率提升。因此，這些都是已經在進行中的事情，當然，還有人員方面的整個轉型以及策略成長領域的重新招募。

Great. Thank you very much, Christian, Dominik. And this concludes our call for today. Thank you very much for joining.

偉大的。非常感謝克里斯蒂安、多明尼克。我們今天的呼籲到此結束。非常感謝您的加入。

Thanks, everyone.

感謝大家。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.

女士們、先生們，會議現已結束，請掛斷電話。感謝您的加入，祝您有個愉快的一天。再見。