SAP SE (SAP) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, and thank you for joining the SAP Q1 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎並感謝您參加 SAP 2024 年第一季財務業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Anthony Coletta, Chief Investor Relations Officer. Please go ahead.

我現在想將會議交給首席投資者關係官安東尼·科萊塔 (Anthony Coletta)。請繼續。

Good evening, everyone, and welcome. Thank you for joining us. With me today are CEO, Christian Klein; CFO, Dominik Asam; and Scott Russell, Head of Customer Success. On this call, we will discuss SAP first quarter 2024 results. You can find the deck supplementing this call as well as our quarterly statement on our Investor Relations website.

大家晚上好，歡迎光臨。感謝您加入我們。今天和我在一起的有執行長 Christian Klein；財務長多米尼克·阿薩姆；和客戶成功主管 Scott Russell。在本次電話會議上，我們將討論 SAP 2024 年第一季的業績。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到補充本次電話會議的資料以及我們的季度聲明。

During this call, we'll make forward-looking statements, which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to materially differ. Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our filings with the Security and Exchange Commission, including but not limited to the Risk Factors section of SAP's annual report on Form 20-F for 2023.

在這次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，即對未來事件的預測、預測或其他陳述。這些陳述是基於目前的預期和假設，這些預期和假設存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果和成果有重大差異。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊可以在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中找到，包括但不限於 SAP 2023 年 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分。

Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS, and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS year-on-year at constant currencies. The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS.

除非另有說明，本次電話會議中的所有數據均為非國際財務報告準則，且成長率與百分點變動均為固定匯率計算的非國際財務報告準則較去年同期變動。我們提供的非國際財務報告準則財務指標不應被視為替代或優於根據國際財務報告準則編製的財務績效指標。

Before we start, I'd like to first remind everyone of the adjustment to our reporting practices announced on December 18 last year. This adjustment notably incorporating share-based compensation into our non-IFRS results are fully reflected in our Q1 results.

在開始之前，我想先提醒大家注意我們去年12月18日宣布的報告做法的調整。這項調整特別是將股權激勵納入我們的非國際財務報告準則績效中，並充分反映在我們第一季的業績中。

I would also like to call your attention to our upcoming financial analyst conference, which will take place on June 5 as part of our Sapphire event in Orlando, Florida. This will be broadcast on our website.

我還想提請您注意我們即將舉行的金融分析師會議，該會議將於 6 月 5 日舉行，作為我們在佛羅裡達州奧蘭多舉行的 Sapphire 活動的一部分。這將在我們的網站上播出。

And with that, I'd like to now turn the call over to Christian.

現在我想把電話轉給克里斯蒂安。

Yes. Thank you, Anthony, and thanks to everyone on the line for joining our first earnings call for 2024.

是的。謝謝你，安東尼，也感謝所有在線的人參加我們 2024 年第一次財報電話會議。

When we look at SAP's longer-term growth journey, 2024 is a key year. It's the year to scale up revenue and profitability. And I'm so proud to say, what we saw in Q1 makes us very confident about our goals. We are off to a strong start, and we have laid a solid foundation for 2025 and beyond.

當我們檢視 SAP 的長期成長歷程時，2024 年是關鍵的一年。今年是擴大收入和獲利能力的一年。我很自豪地說，我們在第一季所看到的情況使我們對我們的目標非常有信心。我們有了一個良好的開端，並為 2025 年及以後奠定了堅實的基礎。

Let's look at the key metrics for Q1. Current cloud backlog grew 28% to EUR 14.2 billion. This is the fastest growth on record and demonstrates the strong momentum across our portfolio, with business AI as an enabling factor with a strong impact already on our Q1 backlog.

讓我們看看第一季的關鍵指標。目前的雲積壓訂單成長了 28%，達到 142 億歐元。這是有史以​​來最快的成長，展示了我們整個產品組合的強勁勢頭，其中商業人工智慧作為一個促成因素，已經對我們第一季的積壓訂單產生了巨大影響。

Cloud revenue increased 25% and reached EUR 3.9 billion. Our operating profit came in at EUR 1.5 billion in Q1, 19% higher than a year ago.

雲端營收成長 25%，達到 39 億歐元。第一季我們的營業利潤為 15 億歐元，比去年同期成長 19%。

The new disclosure of Cloud ERP Suite creates transparency for you and us. It shows how we are executing on moving our installed base to the cloud and how we are driving SAP's ERP leadership position with our land-and-expand strategy. The Cloud ERP Suite contains all the modules for our company's core processes, from finance, brand management and HR to supply chain, commerce and our business technology platform, including data and analytics. Together, these modules have the same functional scope as our monolithic on-premise ERP.

Cloud ERP Suite 的新揭露為您和我們創造了透明度。它展示了我們如何將我們的安裝基礎遷移到雲端，以及我們如何透過我們的土地和擴張策略來推動 SAP 的 ERP 領導地位。雲端 ERP 套件包含我們公司核心流程的所有模組，從財務、品牌管理和人力資源到供應鏈、商務和我們的業務技術平台，包括資料和分析。這些模組共同具有與我們的整體式本地 ERP 相同的功能範圍。

Our modular and integrated Cloud ERP is unmatched in covering the core processes for over 25 industries and 130 countries in the world, and it represents a $700 billion market opportunity by 2027.

我們的模組化整合雲端 ERP 無與倫比，涵蓋全球超過 25 個產業和 130 個國家的核心流程，到 2027 年將帶來 7,000 億美元的市場機會。

In Q1, revenue for the Cloud ERP Suite was up 32% and reached EUR 3.2 billion. We have seen exponential growth in this metric for 2 consecutive years as we are successfully expanding our footprint in our installed base.

第一季度，雲端 ERP 套件的營收成長了 32%，達到 32 億歐元。隨著我們成功擴大我們的安裝基礎，我們的這項指標已連續兩年呈指數級增長。

The land-and-expand strategy works beautifully. Every customer right now has to redesign core processes end-to-end to master their business transformation in the industry. And this is only the beginning. The flywheel has just started to spin. I will go deeper into that in a minute.

土地擴張策略效果非常好。現在每個客戶都必須重新設計端到端的核心流程，以掌握他們在產業中的業務轉型。而這只是開始。飛輪剛開始轉動。我稍後會更深入地討論這一點。

There are many exciting customer stories behind our strong start to the year. In Q1, a range of exciting companies signed up for RISE with SAP. To name just a few examples, the premium chocolate maker, Lindt & Sprüngli; the global manufacturing company, SKF; and the U.S. aerospace company, Curtiss-Wright.

我們今年的強勁開局背後有許多令人興奮的客戶故事。第一季度，一系列令人興奮的公司與 SAP 簽署了 RISE 協議。舉幾個例子，優質巧克力製造商 Lindt & Sprürngli；全球製造公司 SKF；以及美國航空航太公司柯蒂斯萊特公司。

We also saw great customer take-up across the portfolio. Maersk, a world leader in container logistics, adopted the a BTP-SD integration and development platforms, spanning across the SAP and non-SAP IT landscape.

我們也看到整個產品組合的客戶接受度很高。馬士基是貨櫃物流領域的全球領導者，採用了跨越 SAP 和非 SAP IT 領域的 BTP-SD 整合和開發平台。

Our GROW with SAP offering was very successful with hundreds of new customers and a 64% share of net new customers in Q1. One of them is the carbon capture start-up, Climeworks.

我們的 GROW with SAP 產品非常成功，在第一季獲得了數百名新客戶，佔淨新客戶的 64% 份額。其中之一是碳捕獲新創公司 Climeworks。

As for our sustainability solutions, we won another 100 customers in Q1 on top of more than 1,000 we had before. New customers like Ericsson, the global leader in wireless technologies; and Vaillant, a leader in energy-saving technologies, chose SAP's sustainability control tower for their regulatory ESG reporting.

至於我們的永續發展解決方案，我們在第一季又贏得了 1000 多個客戶，而之前已有 1,000 多個客戶。新客戶，如全球無線技術領導者愛立信；節能技術領域的領導者 Vaillant 選擇 SAP 的永續發展控制塔來進行 ESG 監管報告。

So in summary, we had a strong start in Q1, and we are happy to confirm our 2024 outlook as well as our 2025 ambition.

總而言之，我們在第一季度取得了良好的開局，我們很高興確認 2024 年的展望以及 2025 年的雄心壯志。

We are also very confident about the resilience of our growth story beyond 2025 because we have all the right ingredients in place. Our 3 growth drivers are RISE with SAP as the leading transformation offering for our installed base; GROW with SAP for net new customers, smaller subsidiaries and acquisitions; and the innovations we delivered and we will release in the upcoming years, above all, business AI.

我們對 2025 年後的成長故事的彈性也非常有信心，因為我們已經擁有了所有正確的要素。我們的 3 個成長驅動力是 RISE 和 SAP 作為我們安裝基礎的領先轉型產品；與 SAP 一起實現淨新客戶、小型子公司和收購的成長；以及我們已經交付並將在未來幾年發布的創新，尤其是商業人工智慧。

Let's first look at RISE with SAP. Our installed base is large, with over EUR 11 billion remaining support revenue to be converted to the cloud, typically by a factor of around 2 to 3. On top, the EUR 700 billion cloud ERP market offers significant cross-selling opportunities. And I have no doubt that SAP's integrated best-of-suite capabilities will win in the core business of our customers.

我們先來看看 RISE 與 SAP。我們的安裝基數很大，有超過110 億歐元的剩餘支援收入需要轉換到雲端中，通常轉換為2 到3 倍左右。機會。我毫不懷疑 SAP 的整合最佳套件功能將在我們客戶的核心業務中獲勝。

As part of RISE, and via the Clean Core Journey, SAP and our ecosystem will help our customers to remove their ERP custom code and instead develop integrated ERP extensions on BTP. This gives us an immense additional revenue potential, considering that customers in the on-premise world spend up to EUR 7 on custom code for every euro they invest in ERP software. Customers like Hitachi High-Tech, for example, reduced the number of custom code add-ons by over 19%.

作為 RISE 的一部分，透過 Clean Core Journey，SAP 和我們的生態系統將幫助我們的客戶刪除他們的 ERP 自訂程式碼，轉而在 BTP 上開發整合的 ERP 擴充。考慮到本地客戶在 ERP 軟體上每投資一歐元，在客製化程式碼上的花費高達 7 歐元，這為我們帶來了巨大的額外收入潛力。例如，日立高科技等客戶將自訂程式碼附加元件的數量減少了 19% 以上。

RISE has just become the de facto standard for our installed base. It offers a holistic business process redesign combined with the migration to our modular cloud ERP, resulting in fast time to value and being always on the latest release, consuming new innovations without time-intensive ERP upgrades like in the past.

RISE 剛剛成為我們安裝基礎的事實上的標準。它提供了整體業務流程重新設計以及向模組化雲端 ERP 的遷移，從而縮短了價值實現時間並始終保持最新版本，無需像過去那樣進行耗時的 ERP 升級即可消耗新的創新。

Let's have a brief look at GROW with SAP, our second growth driver. As SAP's greenfield cloud ERP offering for net new customers or new business units of large enterprises, GROW delivers go-lives in weeks for every business model, in every industry, in every country. With our ERP solution, SME customers can grow and scale their business without migrating to a new ERP.

讓我們簡單了解一下 GROW with SAP，這是我們的第二個成長動力。作為 SAP 為大型企業的淨新客戶或新業務部門提供的全新雲端 ERP 產品，GROW 在幾週內為每個國家、每個產業的每個業務模式提供上線服務。透過我們的 ERP 解決方案，中小企業客戶可以發展和擴展其業務，而無需遷移到新的 ERP。

Ultimately, RISE and GROW offer customers similar advantages: innovation, modularity, scalability and integration.

最終，RISE 和 GROW 為客戶提供了類似的優勢：創新、模組化、可擴展性和整合。

Coming to the third driver of our growth, which is innovation, with business AI at the core. SAP business AI will once again transform how businesses run and how end users will work in the future. At SAP, we infused business AI across our portfolio. First of all, Joule will be our new user experience via natural language, our ONE front end. We have based our Joule road map on an analysis of the most frequent business and analytical transactions of our end users. This way, we make sure that the most heavily used transactions will be fully AI enabled by the end of this year.

談到我們成長的第三個驅動力，那就是創新，以商業人工智慧為核心。 SAP Business AI 將再次改變企業的運作方式以及最終用戶未來的工作方式。在 SAP，我們將商業人工智慧融入我們的產品組合中。首先，Joule 將成為我們透過自然語言提供的新使用者體驗，我們的 ONE 前端。我們的焦耳路線圖是基於對最終用戶最頻繁的業務和分析交易的分析。透過這種方式，我們確保到今年年底，最常用的交易將完全由人工智慧支援。

Second, we are embedding gen AI directly in our cloud products. Since Q4, we have released over 30 new AI scenarios across our cloud portfolio. Additional ones come out almost every week, with more than 100 in the pipeline for the remainder of the year.

其次，我們將人工智慧直接嵌入我們的雲端產品。自第四季以來，我們在雲端產品組合中發布了 30 多個新的人工智慧場景。幾乎每週都會有更多的作品問世，今年剩餘時間還有 100 多個作品正在醞釀中。

Third, our customers, partners and SAP can use the AI foundation on the BTP, including the gen AI hub to build custom AI scenarios. Over 60 ecosystem partners are taking advantage of these capabilities already and working on over 80 use cases right now. Among the over 27,000 customers already using our business AI is ZF Friedrichshafen, a leading automotive supplier. ZF is lifting significant financial value by optimizing demand and supply chain planning with embedded AI.

第三，我們的客戶、合作夥伴和 SAP 可以使用 BTP 上的 AI 基礎，包括 gen AI 中心來建立自訂 AI 場景。超過 60 個生態系統合作夥伴已經在利用這些功能，目前正在開發 80 多個用例。領先的汽車供應商採埃孚 (ZF Friedrichshafen) 是已經在使用我們的商業 AI 的 27,000 多家客戶之一。採埃孚透過嵌入式人工智慧優化需求與供應鏈規劃，大幅提升財務價值。

Together with our partner, NVIDIA, we are currently building new gen AI capabilities. One use case will revolutionize how software will be developed in the future. Jensen and I are looking forward to telling you more about this partnership at Sapphire.

我們目前正在與我們的合作夥伴 NVIDIA 一起建立新一代人工智慧功能。一個用例將徹底改變未來軟體的開發方式。 Jensen 和我期待向您介紹有關 Sapphire 合作關係的更多資訊。

Commercially, customers can buy SAP business AI as consumption-based AI units, which can be used across the entire portfolio or via our premium RISE and GROW offerings that include AI units, so customers can get started right away. Both commercial offers have already seen high demand, and many Q1 deals were influenced by SAP business AI.

在商業上，客戶可以購買 SAP 業務 AI 作為基於消費的 AI 單元，這些單元可以在整個產品組合中使用，也可以透過我們包含 AI 單元的高級 RISE 和 GROW 產品來使用，以便客戶可以立即開始使用。這兩種商業產品的需求都很高，第一季的許多交易都受到 SAP Business AI 的影響。

Overall, we offer a unique value proposition versus the competition with 3 elements. SAP business AI works out of the box. For their own gen AI-enabled extensions, customers and partners have full choice which leading model they want to use, including modules from OpenAI, Google, the best open source alternatives, or using their own modules. And SAP business AI comes with our leading enterprise standards and is deeply integrated with our data and security module.

整體而言，與競爭對手相比，我們提供了獨特的價值主張，具有 3 個要素。 SAP 業務 AI 開箱即用。對於他們自己的人工智慧擴展，客戶和合作夥伴可以完全選擇他們想要使用的領先模型，包括來自 OpenAI、Google 的模組、最好的開源替代品，或使用自己的模組。 SAP Business AI 配備了我們領先的企業標準，並與我們的資料和安全模組深度整合。

In summary, we had a strong start to 2024, and we are confident we will achieve our goal for the year. Looking ahead, we have powerful growth drivers in place and many innovations in our R&D pipeline. The strong development of our cloud backlog is a testament to that momentum.

總而言之，我們在 2024 年有了一個好的開局，我們有信心實現今年的目標。展望未來，我們擁有強大的成長動力，研發管道中有許多創新。我們的雲積壓的強勁發展證明了這一勢頭。

With regard to our transformation program, we are making even better progress than expected, especially with hiring new talent for future-oriented areas, such as AI. The program will help us to capture growth and increase efficiency at the same time, among other things by pushing the internal use of AI. We expect a triple-digit million amount in efficiencies from embedding AI across all our processes.

在我們的轉型計劃方面，我們取得了比預期更好的進展，特別是在面向未來的領域（例如人工智慧）招募新人才方面。該計劃將透過推動人工智慧的內部使用來幫助我們實現成長並同時提高效率。我們預計，透過將人工智慧嵌入我們的所有流程中，效率將達到三位數。

Equally important for us as an employer, wherever SAP colleagues are affected by restructuring, we are moving with care and empathy, always aware of our social responsibility.

對我們身為雇主來說同樣重要的是，無論 SAP 同事受到重組的影響，我們都會以謹慎和同理心的態度行事，並始終意識到我們的社會責任。

And with that, I'm handing over to you, Dominik.

至此，我就把任務交給你了，多明尼克。

Thank you, Christian, and thank you all for joining us this evening.

謝謝克里斯蒂安，也謝謝大家今晚加入我們。

Let me start by echoing Christian's sentiment that the fundamentals remain exceptionally strong. March marked my anniversary as SAP's CFO, and I consider myself very fortunate to have joined the company just in time with the business in pole position to capitalize on the tremendous AI opportunity lying ahead of us. The hard work over prior years starts to pay off handsomely, also for those investors who kept the pace in the company during these turbulent times.

首先，我要回應克里斯蒂安的觀點，即基本面仍然異常強勁。三月是我擔任 SAP 財務長的周年紀念日，我認為自己非常幸運能夠及時加入該公司，當時該公司的業務處於領先地位，可以充分利用擺在我們面前的巨大人工智慧機會。前幾年的辛勤工作開始獲得豐厚回報，對於那些在動盪時期保持公司發展步伐的投資者來說也是如此。

It is because of the dedication of our workforce that we continue to experience strength across the business. Our solutions are becoming increasingly differentiated demonstrated by continued revenue growth throughout the world, expanding cloud gross profit and improved cash conversion. We've kept the promise and walked the talk, setting the stage for sustained growth in the coming years.

正是由於我們員工的奉獻精神，我們才得以在整個企業中持續感受到力量。我們的解決方案變得越來越差異化，這體現在全球收入的持續成長、雲毛利的擴大和現金轉換的改善。我們信守承諾，言出必行，為未來幾年的持續成長奠定了基礎。

Fiscal year 2024 is already off to a strong start. We continue to build on our robust foundation as evidenced by the impressive growth of our current cloud backlog and continued momentum of our cloud revenue. In addition, non-IFRS operating profit showed significant double-digit growth even when including stock-based compensation. Our key priorities, including our investments in business AI, demonstrate our commitment to leading the charge in this new era of business transformation and exemplify our relentless drive for growth and operational excellence.

2024 財政年度已經有了一個好的開始。我們將繼續建立堅實的基礎，當前雲端積壓的令人印象深刻的成長和雲端收入的持續成長勢頭就證明了這一點。此外，即使包括以股票為基礎的薪酬，非國際財務報告準則營業利潤也顯示出顯著的兩位數成長。我們的關鍵優先事項，包括對商業人工智慧的投資，體現了我們在業務轉型新時代引領潮流的承諾，並體現了我們對成長和卓越營運的不懈追求。

The company-wide transformation program we initiated in January is progressing well, focusing on enhancing our operational efficiencies and setting the stage for improved financial performance. We're also deploying our own AI solutions internally as a powerful lever to drive productivity.

我們一月份啟動的全公司轉型計畫進展順利，重點是提高營運效率並為改善財務表現奠定基礎。我們也正在內部部署自己的人工智慧解決方案，作為提高生產力的強大槓桿。

Digital transformation is imperative in today's evolving landscape, and SAP remains the partner of choice. Building on our strategic commitment, the introduction of the Cloud ERP Suite is a pivotal step in aligning our product offering more closely with our core ERP and integrated business solutions. All of this has helped foster the trend towards larger cloud transactions, with deals greater than EUR 5 million in volume contributing more than half of our cloud order entry. This is remarkable for the first quarter of the year.

在當今不斷發展的環境中，數位轉型勢在必行，而 SAP 仍然是首選合作夥伴。基於我們的策略承諾，雲端 ERP 套件的推出是使我們的產品與我們的核心 ERP 和整合式業務解決方案更加緊密結合的關鍵一步。所有這些都有助於促進更大的雲端交易趨勢，交易量超過 500 萬歐元，占我們雲端訂單輸入的一半以上。這對於今年第一季來說是引人注目的。

I will now go into further details on our financial highlights.

我現在將進一步詳細介紹我們的財務亮點。

Current cloud backlog was EUR 14.2 billion, accelerating its impressive growth to 28%, solidly keeping us on the trajectory towards our fiscal year 2024 outlook and fiscal year 2025 top line ambition.

目前的雲積壓金額為 142 億歐元，成長率令人印象深刻，達到 28%，使我們堅定地朝著 2024 財年展望和 2025 財年營收目標的軌道前進。

Cloud revenue grew 25% year-on-year, mainly driven by the continued strength of our Cloud ERP Suite. It grew by 32% in Q1, its ninth consecutive quarter of growth in the 30s. This sustained momentum underscores our expectations that Cloud ERP Suite will continue to capture a growing share of our cloud business, thanks to its critical role in our customers' digital transformation journeys. It actually already represents 84% of our combined PaaS/SaaS revenue, up 3 percentage points as compared to the prior year's quarter.

雲端營收年增 25%，主要得益於雲端 ERP 套件的持續強勁。第一季成長了 32%，這是自 30 年代以來連續第九個季度成長。這種持續的勢頭強調了我們的期望，即雲端 ERP 套件將繼續在我們的雲端業務中佔據越來越大的份額，這要歸功於它在客戶數位轉型之旅中的關鍵作用。實際上，它已經占我們 PaaS/SaaS 總營收的 84%，比去年同期成長了 3 個百分點。

Software license revenue saw a decrease of 25%, so the dilution of its share of the total revenue from 9% to 5% in only 1 year impressively illustrates the continued secular shift in market preference towards cloud-based solutions in the enterprise.

軟體授權收入下降了25%，因此在短短一年內其佔總收入的份額就從9% 稀釋到了5%，這令人印象深刻地說明了市場對企業中基於雲端的解決方案的偏好持續發生長期轉變。

Finally, total revenue surpassed EUR 8 billion in Q1, up 9% year-over-year, showing unabated growth momentum.

最後，第一季總營收超過80億歐元，較去年同期成長9%，成長動能不減。

Now let's take a brief look at our regional performance. In the first quarter, SAP's cloud revenue performance was particularly strong in APJ and EMEA and robust in the Americas region. Brazil, Canada, Germany, Italy, the United Arab Emirates, India and South Korea had outstanding performances in cloud revenue growth, while the U.S., Japan and Spain were particularly strong.

現在讓我們簡要回顧一下我們的區域表現。第一季度，SAP 的雲端營收表現在亞太及日本地區和歐洲、中東和非洲地區尤其強勁，在美洲地區也表現強勁。巴西、加拿大、德國、義大利、阿聯酋、印度和韓國在雲端收入成長方面表現出色，而美國、日本和西班牙尤其強勁。

Now let's move further down the income statement. Our cloud gross profit grew by 28% driven by cloud revenue growth and further efficiency gains. This resulted in cloud gross margin improving from the year-ago period, expanding by 1.8 percentage points to 72.5%.

現在讓我們進一步檢視損益表。在雲端收入成長和效率進一步提升的推動下，我們的雲毛利潤成長了 28%。這使得雲毛利率較去年同期改善，擴大1.8個百分點至72.5%。

IFRS operating profit in the first quarter was impacted by EUR 2.2 billion of restructuring provisions associated with the transformation program initiated in January. This resulted in an IFRS operating loss of EUR 787 million. This accrual represents the vast majority of the total restructuring expenses we currently expect to incur in the context of the program. The amount is closer to the upper end of what we had anticipated initially, which is primarily driven by the strong share price performance in the first quarter and the higher-than-expected acceptance rate of the early retirement program in the U.S. We continue to be in the very early stages of executing the program, which we expect to be concluded by the beginning of 2025, and projected expenses are based on preliminary assumptions. We expect visibility to further improve over the course of the second quarter and plan to provide an update once the related measures are fully assessed.

第一季 IFRS 營業利潤受到 1 月啟動的轉型計畫相關的 22 億歐元重組撥備的影響。這導致 IFRS 營運虧損 7.87 億歐元。這項應計費用占我們目前預計在該計劃中產生的重組總費用的絕大多數。該金額接近我們最初預期的上限，這主要是由於第一季度強勁的股價表現以及美國提前退休計劃的接受率高於預期。完成，預計費用基於初步假設。我們預計第二季的可見度將進一步提高，並計劃在相關措施得到充分評估後提供最新資訊。

Finally, non-IFRS operating profit grew by 19%, evidencing our sustained push towards enhanced profitability. The underlying profit expansion was tempered by EUR 135 million increased in stock-based compensation expense, mainly as a result of a very strong appreciation of our share price in the first quarter. Q1 2024 was actually the quarter with the highest increase in SAP's market capitalization ever.

最後，非國際財務報告準則營業利潤成長了 19%，證明了我們對提高獲利能力的持續努力。基本利潤擴張受到股票薪資費用增加 1.35 億歐元的影響，這主要是由於第一季我們的股價大幅升值。 2024 年第一季實際上是 SAP 有史以來市值增幅最高的季度。

As we settled, for the last time, the entire tranche of our obligations under the 2021 Move SAP Program in Q1, fully in cash, we expect a significantly lower sensitivity in the coming quarter as we move to equity sale. Therefore, the non-IFRS operating profit outlook is reaffirmed for the full year 2024 despite this headwind. Non-IFRS earnings per share in the quarter increased 8% to $0.81. The IFRS effective tax rate for Q1 was 16% and the non-IFRS tax rate was 32.4%.

由於我們最後一次在第一季完全以現金結算了 2021 Move SAP 計劃下的全部義務，我們預計隨著我們轉向股權出售，下一季的敏感度將顯著降低。因此，儘管存在這種不利因素，但仍重申 2024 年全年非國際財務報告準則營業利潤前景。本季非 IFRS 每股收益成長 8% 至 0.81 美元。第一季的 IFRS 有效稅率為 16%，非 IFRS 稅率為 32.4%。

Now on to our cash generation. Free cash flow for Q1 came in at EUR 2.49 billion, up 28%, again, putting us on the right trajectory to maintain our full year outlook. There was only a minor cash flow impact from our transformation program in the first quarter.

現在談談我們的現金產生。第一季自由現金流達到 24.9 億歐元，再次成長 28%，使我們走上了維持全年前景的正確軌道。第一季我們的轉型計劃僅對現金流產生了輕微影響。

So we reiterate our 2024 outlook on all parameters. For the detailed outlook, please refer to our quarterly statement published earlier today on our Investor Relations website.

因此，我們重申對 2024 年所有參數的展望。有關詳細展望，請參閱我們今天早些時候在投資者關係網站上發布的季度聲明。

In summary, Q1 marks a strong start to the year highlighted by continued growth in both our current cloud backlog and Cloud ERP Suite. Business traction, combined with focus on execution, is positioning us well to the objectives for the remainder of the year.

總而言之，第一季標誌著今年的強勁開局，突出表現在我們當前的雲積壓和雲端 ERP 套件的持續成長。業務牽引力加上對執行的關注，使我們能夠很好地實現今年剩餘時間的目標。

Before we open it up to Q&A, I would like to say that we are very much looking forward to welcoming you to our financial analyst conference in June. As already mentioned by Anthony, it will take place in conjunction with Sapphire in Orlando, and the team and I are very much looking forward to meeting you there in person.

在我們開始問答之前，我想說，我們非常期待您參加我們六月的金融分析師會議。正如安東尼已經提到的，它將與奧蘭多的藍寶石一起舉行，我和團隊非常期待在那裡與您見面。

So thank you, and we'll now be happy to take your questions.

謝謝您，我們現在很樂意回答您的問題。

Operator, please open the line.

接線員，請開通線路。

(Operator Instructions) The first question is from the line of Toby Ogg with JPMorgan Cazenove Limited.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 JPMorgan Cazenove Limited 的 Toby Ogg。

Perhaps just sort of taking a step back on the margin side, clearly, there's a big step-up in the margins embedded in your EUR 10 billion EBIT guidance for 2025. And I know, Dominik, you talked at Q4 about the potential for continued margin expansion beyond 2025, and I know that the Rule of 40 is something that's been discussed in the market when looking at the software ecosystem. Could you perhaps just give us a sense of how you're thinking about the Rule of 40 and whether this is something you think SAP could achieve?

也許只是在利潤方面後退了一步，顯然，2025 年 100 億歐元息稅前利潤指導中的利潤率有很大提高。之後的利潤率擴張，我知道市場在審視軟體生態系統時已經討論過40 條規則。您能否向我們介紹一下您對 40 條規則的看法以及您認為 SAP 是否可以實現這一目標？

Well, I mean, the Rule of 40 is simply an observation if we do benchmarking with our core competitors and we look at the median or the average, it doesn't actually matter, you see that that's what they trade at. The stats show us that for 2023, we are at 25%, if you combine our free cash flow to sales margin plus the growth we achieved in that year. And if you look at the midpoint of the ambition 2025, basically, you will see that would kind of bring us a little bit more than half the way towards that.

嗯，我的意思是，40 規則只是一種觀察，如果我們與我們的核心競爭對手進行基準測試，我們查看中位數或平均值，這實際上並不重要，你會看到這就是他們的交易條件。統計數據顯示，如果將我們的自由現金流與銷售利潤率加上我們當年實現的成長相結合，到 2023 年，我們的成長率為 25%。如果你看看 2025 年雄心壯志的中點，基本上你會發現這將使我們實現這一目標的進度略多於一半。

Now the rest is very much dependent on how much can we accelerate revenue growth. This is why we highlight again and again the revenue mix improving. I highlighted 84% of the SaaS/PaaS revenue is already in Cloud ERP Suite, which is kind of running at 30%-plus growth rates on a year-on-year basis. We also highlight that the strongest headwind, the decline in the software business, is becoming smaller and smaller. It's now down to 5% of the revenues. So the fundamentals are actually there to support strong revenue growth. And then, of course, there's also some improvement in margins. We said that we want to clearly scale the cost base not at the same growth rate as revenues. But again, we look at benchmarking and see that our core competitors achieve between 80% to 90% growth of the cost base versus the revenue base. That's an indication of the kind of ballpark we aim at with our transformation program. And now then you can basically play the math rolling these numbers forward to see how long it will take us to come to that Rule of 40 which, by the way, we have no idea where it will be 5, 10 years down the road because, of course, our competitors will also not stand still. But that's the way I can describe it.

現在剩下的很大程度取決於我們能在多大程度上加速收入成長。這就是為什麼我們一次又一次強調收入結構的改善。我強調了 84% 的 SaaS/PaaS 收入已經來自雲端 ERP 套件，該套件的年成長率在 30% 以上。我們也強調，最強勁的阻力，即軟體業務的下滑，正在變得越來越小。現在已降至收入的 5%。因此，基本面實際上可以支持強勁的收入成長。當然，利潤率也有一些改善。我們說過，我們希望明確地擴大成本基礎，而不是以與收入相同的成長率。但我們再次審視基準測試，發現我們的核心競爭對手的成本基礎與收入基礎相比實現了 80% 至 90% 的成長。這顯示了我們轉型計劃的目標。現在你基本上可以對這些數字進行數學運算，看看我們需要多長時間才能達到 40 法則，順便說一句，我們不知道 5 年後、10 年後會發生什麼，因為當然，我們的競爭對手也不會坐以待斃。但這就是我可以描述的方式。

So don't take it as a guidance that we can get there at any specific given quarter. But obviously, we have to acknowledge that this is where the market is running, and this is a little bit of the north star we have on top of our head. And I think with the measures we are taking now to really, a, kind of cover more than half of the gap we currently have; and then b, to accelerate growth and also to grow costs more slowly than revenues, we have the ingredients to gradually move towards the target.

因此，不要將其視為我們可以在任何特定特定季度實現這一目標的指導。但顯然，我們必須承認這就是市場運作的方向，這有點像我們頭頂上的北極星。我認為，透過我們現在採取的措施，實際上可以彌補我們目前一半以上的差距；然後b，為了加速成長並且讓成本成長慢於收入成長，我們擁有逐步實現目標的要素。

The next question comes from the line of Adam Wood with Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自亞當伍德與摩根士丹利的對話。

I wanted to sort of start on the AI side, if you could help us a little bit around how that's been monetized today. Is this more that customers are accelerating the shift to S/4 because they want to take advantage of the tools that will be available there in the future? Or actually, are you starting to monetize already that business AI feature and charging directly for that?

我想從人工智慧方面開始，如果你能幫助我們了解今天如何將其貨幣化。這是否更多的是客戶正在加速向 S/4 的轉變，因為他們希望利用未來可用的工具？或者實際上，您是否已經開始將商業人工智慧功能貨幣化並直接收費？

And then maybe just secondly, you talked about EUR 7 of custom code versus EUR 1 of software, obviously, a massive opportunity if you could capture more of that. How realistic is it that you can cover enough of the custom areas to be able to capture that? Or is this more monetization of the platform as companies and partners develop on the BTP?

其次，您談到了 7 歐元的定製代碼與 1 歐元的軟體，顯然，如果您能抓住更多機會，這是一個巨大的機會。您可以覆蓋足夠的自訂區域以捕獲該信息，這有多現實？或者，隨著公司和合作夥伴在 BTP 上開發，平台的貨幣化程度會更高嗎？

Thanks a lot for the questions, Adam. On AI, first, when you look at the commercial model, we actually included some standard AI use cases for automation of repetitive tasks in our base packages. On top, of course, now we are delivering more and more gen AI models, which also require high computing power. And I talked about Joule. And Joule will cover the most used transactions of our end users by the end of the year. So no matter if you do work on travel, on finance, on supply chain, on procurement, it will all happen via human language. And that is included in our premium AI offering, which is consumption-based. We package it, some AI units already in our RISE and GROW packages, and that is actually running extremely well. And on top of course, you can also, of course, consume business AI by, of course, buying consumption packages of our offerings.

非常感謝你的提問，亞當。在人工智慧方面，首先，當你查看商業模型時，我們實際上在我們的基礎包中包含了一些用於自動化重複任務的標準人工智慧用例。當然，最重要的是，現在我們正在提供越來越多的新一代人工智慧模型，這也需要很高的運算能力。我談到了焦耳。 Joule 將在今年底覆蓋我們最終用戶最常用的交易。因此，無論你從事旅行、金融、供應鏈或採購工作，這一切都將透過人類語言進行。這包含在我們基於消費的優質人工智慧產品中。我們將其打包，一些 AI 單元已經在我們的 RISE 和 GROW 包中，並且實際上運行得非常好。當然，最重要的是，您當然還可以透過購買我們產品的消費包來消費商業人工智慧。

And with regard to the adoption, I mean, the way how it works, Adam, is, of course, Joule will become the de facto user experience front end for our end users. Second, when you are then talking to the customers, what we're already doing, they will use our gen AI scenarios for asset management, for manufacturing, for shop floor automation, for more personalization of their offerings, of their services, of their products via our configurator, or they also build custom AI use cases. Why do you do that with our gen AI hub on BTP? Because you get the native integration into the data. We can also pretrain some modules. You have integration into the security and authorization, which matters in the business world. And these are all the benefits, the value, why our partners and customers already start to develop new AI use cases custom for their individual business.

至於採用，我的意思是，亞當，它的工作方式當然是，Joule 將成為我們最終用戶事實上的用戶體驗前端。其次，當你與客戶交談時，我們已經在做的事情，他們將使用我們的人工智慧場景進行資產管理、製造、車間自動化，使他們的產品、服務、他們的產品更加個人化。配置器開發產品，或者他們也建立自訂人工智慧用例。為什麼要在 BTP 上使用我們的 gen AI 中心來做到這一點？因為您可以原生整合到資料中。我們還可以預先訓練一些模組。您已經融入了安全和授權，這在商業世界中很重要。這些都是所有的好處和價值，也是我們的合作夥伴和客戶已經開始為其個人業務量身打造新的人工智慧用例的原因。

With regard to your second question, I guess here, it's also very important to mention that, when you look at the momentum of our top line, I mean, it's evident that we are not only scaling our business with S/4HANA finance. I mean, I'm sitting in many of these RISE transformations, and what we are often doing is we start with finance, then we go higher to retire, we go into finance and payroll. We talk about total workforce within cloud and SuccessFactors. So we are closing mega deals, but we are doing it step by step, in a modular way, given our architecture, which ensures fast time to value.

關於你的第二個問題，我想在這裡，也非常重要的是要提到的是，當你看看我們營收的勢頭時，我的意思是，很明顯，我們不僅透過S/4HANA 金融來擴展我們的業務。我的意思是，我正在經歷許多這樣的 RISE 轉型，我們經常做的是從財務開始，然後我們進入更高的退休年齡，我們進入財務和薪資管理。我們討論雲端中的員工總數和 SuccessFactors。因此，我們正在完成大型交易，但考慮到我們的架構，我們正在以模組化的方式一步一步地進行，這確保了快速實現價值。

And then you scan the custom code. And the custom code is actually sometimes 7x more than standard code, ERP standard code on-prem. And then you are looking into what kind of extensions have been built. For example, in oil and gas, we brought now the 10 largest oil and gas companies of the world together. We talk about trade promotion. We talk about product revenue accounting. All the extensions, which make a ton of sense to not custom-code it anymore ERP, to sit always on the latest release but then developing it side by side, because you need a native integration into the data module of SAP. And of course, the security concept plays in there as well.

然後您掃描自訂程式碼。實際上，自訂程式碼有時比標準代碼（本地 ERP 標準代碼）多 7 倍。然後你正在研究已經建構了什麼樣的擴充。例如，在石油和天然氣領域，我們現在將世界上最大的 10 家石油和天然氣公司聚集在一起。我們談論貿易促進。我們談論產品收入會計。所有的擴充功能都非常有意義，不再對 ERP 進行自訂編碼，而是始終使用最新版本，然後並行開發，因為您需要本地整合到 SAP 的資料模組中。當然，安全概念也在那裡發揮作用。

And indeed, Adam, this is a massive uptick, what we have, and platform consumption. And customers, partners can actually then also develop their own IP, can offer it in our app store. And then again, as I just said, for oil and gas, same will happen for retail for manufacturing, can cross-sell it across the industry. And with that, I guess, you also feel that this is also a massive transformation for our ecosystem. No custom coding, but rather building, developing software on the platform and building a massive ecosystem around our cloud ERP.

事實上，亞當，我們所擁有的以及平台消費量都在大幅成長。客戶、合作夥伴實際上也可以開發自己的 IP，可以在我們的應用程式商店中提供。再說一次，正如我剛才所說，對於石油和天然氣來說，製造業零售也會發生同樣的情況，可以在整個行業中交叉銷售。我想，您也會覺得這對我們的生態系統來說也是一個巨大的轉變。無需自訂編碼，而是在平台上建立、開發軟體並圍繞我們的雲端 ERP 建立龐大的生態系統。

The next question is from the line of Johannes Schaller with Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的約翰內斯‧夏勒 (Johannes Schaller)。

Christian, you mentioned you've seen already a kind of noticeable impact on CCB from AI. And obviously, last year, I think the CCB's soft target was in the mid-20s. Now it looks like we're more at 27%, 28%. I mean, tough to quantify the impact, I guess. But is the delta, is that largely AI-driven? And also should we look at the kind of high 20s more sustainable growth run rate for CCB now going forward?

Christian，您提到您已經看到人工智慧對 CCB 產生了明顯的影響。顯然，去年，我認為 CCB 的軟目標是在 20 多歲。現在看來我們更多的是27%、28%。我的意思是，我想很難量化其影響。但三角洲主要是人工智慧驅動的嗎？我們是否也應該看看建行未來的 20 多歲的更永續的成長速度？

I mean on business, to answer your first question, I mean, Scott is also on the line, please comment, Scott. I mean, I have no C-level conversation anymore without talking about business AI and the impact on the business. Just last week, I had a conversation about production downs in manufacturing and how our gen AI hub can help to get the machines faster up and running again, which actually would result in hundreds of millions of efficiency gains for this large chemical company. In these conversations, are these AI use cases already live and fully adopted? No, they are now in the making. But with that comes more and more consumption, and we're going to monetize that in the upcoming quarters and in the upcoming years. And we have many more of that.

我的意思是出差，回答你的第一個問題，我的意思是，斯科特也在線，請發表評論，斯科特。我的意思是，如果不談論商業人工智慧及其對業務的影響，我就不再有 C 級對話了。就在上週，我討論了製造業的產量下降以及我們的人工智慧中心如何幫助機器更快地重新啟動和運行，這實際上將為這家大型化學公司帶來數億的效率提升。在這些對話中，這些人工智慧用例是否已經投入使用並且得到充分採用？不，他們現在正在製作中。但隨之而來的是越來越多的消費，我們將在未來幾季和未來幾年將其貨幣化。我們還有更多這樣的事。

And of course, when you are now using SuccessFactors, Concur, everyone is looking for more efficiencies, for a new way of working, so Joule will become the de facto standard. And with that, we're going to see an uptick of all of our premium packages now we are building for each line of business and, of course, also for RISE and GROW.

當然，當你現在使用 SuccessFactors、Concur 時，每個人都在尋求更高的效率、新的工作方式，因此 Joule 將成為事實上的標準。隨之而來的是，我們將看到我們現在為每個業務線構建的所有高級套餐的增加，當然也包括崛起和成長。

With regard to CCB, I mean we are very confident. When we look at the pipeline for the year, we see healthy renewals. We see a good pipeline to close business in the upcoming quarter. Sapphire is around the corner where we also make some exciting announcements around data and, of course, AI. So we are very confident also when it comes to CCB for the remainder of the year.

對於建行，我的意思是我們非常有信心。當我們審視今年的管道時，我們看到了健康的更新。我們看到在下個季度關閉業務的良好管道。藍寶石即將到來，我們還將圍繞數據，當然還有人工智慧，發布一些令人興奮的公告。因此，我們對建行今年剩餘時間也非常有信心。

But Scott, Dominik, please feel free to comment as well.

但史考特、多明尼克，也請隨意發表評論。

Yes. I'll probably give two additional data points, just to add on what you described, Christian. So first, as you saw in the update, the Cloud ERP Suite growth, and that covers the end-to-end capability for an enterprise is growing and it continues to grow strongly, ninth quarter in a row, 30%-plus. But the reasons why are evolving. There is no doubt companies want best-in-class processes, be able to automate their enterprise, building efficiency. But what they're clearly now seeing is not all data is equal.

是的。我可能會提供兩個額外的數據點，只是為了補充你所描述的內容，克里斯蒂安。首先，正如您在更新中看到的，雲端 ERP 套件的成長，涵蓋企業的端到端能力正在成長，並且繼續強勁成長，連續第九個季度成長超過 30%。但其原因正在不斷演變。毫無疑問，公司希望擁有一流的流程，能夠實現企業自動化，提高效率。但他們現在清楚地看到，並非所有數據都是平等的。

Not all data in the enterprise is equal. The data that sits in the SAP platforms is the most valuable data that they have. And when they think forward and they look at our innovation road map with business AI and they see the capabilities that we bring inside the core, not only will they get the benefit out of the generative AI capabilities that we do in generative AI hubs, but then the data that is the most valuable to them has got the integrity. It has got the context. It's got the metadata. It's got the semantics. And then you can get the innovation insights.

並非企業中的所有數據都是平等的。 SAP 平台中的數據是他們擁有的最有價值的數據。當他們向前思考並查看我們的商業人工智慧創新路線圖時，他們會看到我們在核心中引入的功能，他們不僅會從我們在生成人工智慧中心所做的生成人工智慧功能中受益，而且也會從我們的生成人工智慧功能中受益。它有上下文。它有元數據。它有語義。然後您可以獲得創新見解。

And a lot of the growth that we're now seeing, and to Christian's point, there is not a single conversation that SAP is having with customers that is not linking best-in-class innovation, underlying valuable data and the generative AI capabilities in that combination. And that's why they are excited about the road map, but it's already stimulating the growth.

我們現在看到的許多成長，就 Christian 的觀點而言，SAP 與客戶進行的每一次對話都將一流的創新、潛在的有價值的數據和生成人工智慧功能聯繫起來。這就是為什麼他們對路線圖感到興奮，但它已經刺激了成長。

And to give you one additional data point, our cloud pipeline growth, so the pipeline that we generated in first quarter was the best on record. We continue to see strong demand not only in what we booked and what we're generating in the cloud backlog but also the interest from the market, and a lot of that is stimulated by our business AI.

為了給您一個額外的數據點，我們的雲端管道成長，因此我們在第一季產生的管道是有史以來最好的。我們繼續看到強勁的需求，不僅是我們預訂的產品和我們在雲端積壓中產生的產品，還有市場的興趣，其中很大一部分是由我們的業務人工智慧所刺激的。

Maybe just to complement that view on the kind of dynamics in the business to the financial model, you'll note that the biggest single most important dilutive factor, so to speak, from CCB down to cloud revenue growth with a certain time lag is actually the transactional business. This is now kind of stagnating. It's actually very, very slightly even decreasing. The macro isn't great. There's also these changes in the kind of supply network happening. And we think that over time, that will become smaller in the mix.

也許只是為了補充對業務動態與財務模型的看法，您會注意到最大的單一最重要的稀釋因素，可以這麼說，從 CCB 到雲端收入成長（具有一定的時間滯後）實際上是交易業務。現在這種情況有點停滯了。實際上，它的下降幅度非常非常小。宏觀不太好。供應網路的類型也發生了這些變化。我們認為，隨著時間的推移，這個比例將會變得越來越小。

By the way, that dilutive effect is also embarked in our Cloud ERP Suite growth numbers. So we show that 30%, 32% growth despite that headwind. But that's the biggest bridge item between CCB and cloud revenues. Now if you look at what we've kind of indicated in our ambition '25, you see that with 28% CCB, you don't need to see much acceleration to basically get there because you take off the dilutive effect on 5% of the revenue is basically stagnating, and we do believe that in '25 there will be some acceleration there. So it's what we really take to get to our 2025 ambition. So anything beyond that would be upside in summary.

順便說一句，這種稀釋效應也反映在我們的雲端 ERP 套件成長數據中。因此，儘管存在逆風，我們還是實現了 30%、32% 的成長。但這是建行和雲端收入之間最大的橋樑計畫。現在，如果你看看我們在25 年的雄心中所表明的內容，你會發現，有了28% 的CCB，你不需要看到太多的加速就能基本上實現這一目標，因為你消除了5% 的稀釋效應。因此，這就是我們實現 2025 年目標的真正目標。因此，總的來說，除此之外的任何事情都會有好處。

And last, but not least, when you look at the current cloud backlog, we released ACV numbers at the year and we are going to talk about TCV. But customers are also trending more and more to also now sign longer-term commitments with [grams], which are also then going over 5 years. And of course, there's enough in the books also when it comes to CCB, TCV. And there, the growth is even higher than in the ACV.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是，當您查看當前的雲積壓工作時，我們發布了當年的 ACV 數據，我們將討論 TCV。但客戶現在也越來越傾向與 [grams] 簽署長期承諾，期限也將超過 5 年。當然，關於 CCB、TCV，書中也有足夠的內容。在那裡，成長速度甚至高於ACV。

The next question is from the line of Frederic Boulan with Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Frederic Boulan。

Two quick questions, please. So first of all, coming back to the CCB, so you mentioned the CCB being held by the demand for AI. Can you discuss a bit more specifically what's driving that sequential acceleration, any specific modules or areas where you see demand? Or is it just the momentum in S/4?

請簡單問兩個問題。首先，回到 CCB，您提到 CCB 是由人工智慧的需求所持有的。您能否更具體地討論一下推動連續加速的因素，您認為有需求的任何特定模組或領域？還是只是S/4的動力？

And then second question on the cloud migration, if you can give us an update on your current ERP landscape, potential customers that have migrated to cloud. And what are you seeing in terms of momentum? Are we seeing some of the largest customers continuing to migrate? So any update on that would be great.

然後是關於雲端遷移的第二個問題，您是否可以向我們介紹您目前的 ERP 環境以及已遷移到雲端的潛在客戶的最新情況。您認為勢頭如何？我們是否看到一些最大的客戶繼續遷移？所以任何關於這方面的更新都會很棒。

Yes. Happy to take that question. And Scott, please feel free to comment as well. I mean, first, your second question is also actually related to your question number one. What we are seeing now with business AI is actually that a lot of customers who probably plan their migration start date for S/4 end of this year or next year, that they actually now want to move faster because they see the capabilities with SAP business AI, as I mentioned, on asset management, on just automating many, many workflows in their company, but also when it comes to analytics, especially in the supply chain planning, which is an extremely important part of many companies right now.

是的。很高興回答這個問題。斯科特，也請隨意發表評論。我的意思是，首先，你的第二個問題其實也與你的第一個問題有關。我們現在在業務 AI 方面看到的情況實際上是，許多客戶可能計劃在今年年底或明年開始遷移 S/4，他們現在實際上希望更快地遷移，因為他們看到了 SAP 業務的功能正如我所所提到的，人工智慧不僅可以用於資產管理，還可以實現公司中許多工作流程的自動化，而且還可以用於分析，特別是在供應鏈規劃方面，這是目前許多公司極其重要的一部分。

And that actually also has driven the sequential increase. But this is not only business AI standalone. Business AI helps us to sell more supply chain, to sell more HR, to sell more finance, and then last, but not least, which makes me so confident also about the growth potential for 2025 plus, I mean when you start with finance and you talk about your business model. You talk immediately about the billing, about the commissions. Then you're actually moving into the supply chain. And when you're doing demand and supply, you're also then talking about design to operate. And now we are seeing a huge uptick in our manufacturing cloud business. And then you're going module-by-module because, when you talk to these customers, they see more and more that the best of fleet really doesn't work when you have to stitch together manually data modules or the identity or the authorization.

這實際上也推動了連續成長。但這不僅僅是商業人工智慧的獨立。商業人工智慧幫助我們銷售更多的供應鏈、銷售更多的人力資源、銷售更多的財務，最後但並非最不重要的一點是，這讓我對2025 年以後的成長潛力充滿信心，我的意思是，當你從財務開始，你談論你的商業模式。你們立即談論帳單和佣金。然後你實際上就進入了供應鏈。當你在做需求和供應時，你也在談論操作設計。現在我們看到我們的製造雲業務大幅成長。然後你要逐個模組，因為當你與這些客戶交談時，他們越來越發現，當你必須手動將資料模組或身分或授權拼接在一起時，最好的車隊實際上不起作用。

So what we are seeing in many RISE customers over time that there's a lot of cross-sell potential and that the first phase is only about landing and then start provisioning, start to redesign the process landscape, and then we go. And we already talked about the custom code and the ecosystem. We are more and more building on BTP to also remove the custom code and move to the Clean Core.

因此，隨著時間的推移，我們在許多 RISE 客戶中看到，存在著很大的交叉銷售潛力，第一階段只是著陸，然後開始配置，開始重新設計流程環境，然後我們就開始。我們已經討論過自訂程式碼和生態系統。我們越來越多地基於 BTP 進行構建，以刪除自訂程式碼並轉向 Clean Core。

And yes, I'll just add one additional comment to what Christian described, and that is, the growth on the CCB is consistent around the world. And so this is not a particular region, across all regions, we saw healthy growth. Obviously, APJ and parts of Europe and Greater China were strong, but across the world.

是的，我只想對克里斯蒂安所描述的內容添加一項補充評論，那就是，CCB 的成長在全球範圍內是一致的。所以這不是一個特定的地區，在所有地區，我們都看到了健康的成長。顯然，亞太及日本地區以及歐洲和大中華區的部分地區表現強勁，但在全球範圍內。

And secondly, it is across that portfolio. People aren't doing a move only. They're doing a move and transform, and that requires those extended capabilities. And if I just link it back, if you've already got the data architecture of SAP, and it's the most valuable thing. You can do so many more things not only AI related but also innovation related that you can do in your business. So it definitely means our short-, mid- and long-term growth, it's definitely got confidence based on the capabilities, the innovation road map, but also the buying signals that we see from the market here and now.

其次，它涉及整個投資組合。人們不只是採取行動。他們正在進行遷移和轉型，這需要這些擴展的功能。如果我把它連結回來，如果你已經掌握了 SAP 的資料架構，那就是最有價值的東西。您可以做更多的事情，不僅與人工智慧相關，而且與您在業務中可以做的創新相關。所以這絕對意味著我們的短期、中期和長期成長，它絕對是基於我們的能力、創新路線圖以及我們現在從市場上看到的購買訊號所獲得的信心。

The next question is from the line of Jackson Ader with KeyBanc Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自 KeyBanc Capital Markets 的 Jackson Ader。

Just one on the large deals strength. I think Christian, or maybe Dominik, you called it out in terms of the $5 million-plus deals driving a lot of strength in Cloud ERP. Just curious, I mean I assume the preponderance of that is migration or RISE with SAP, but are you seeing any large deals for net new customers or net new lands that are also driving some of the CCB growth?

只是大宗交易實力的一個。我認為 Christian，或者也許是 Dominik，您在推動雲端 ERP 領域強大實力的 500 萬美元以上交易方面指出了這一點。只是好奇，我的意思是，我假設其中的優勢是 SAP 的遷移或崛起，但是您是否看到任何針對淨新客戶或淨新土地的大型交易也推動了 CCB 的成長？

Scott, do you want to go first?

史考特，你想先走嗎？

Let me kick it off and then, Christian, please add in. So I think we've got to be clear, when customers decide to move to RISE, they're not just doing a move of their current environment and replicating the same capability; in fact, far from it. They're trying to transform, operationally process all of their data, all of their capability to serve now and into the future. They're setting their business up. And so when they look at these, which is why, to answer your question, the larger deals are because they look at a multiyear road map of capability, transitioning from an old state, including non-SAP. So what we see is many situations where our customers will say, "Okay, I might be using SAP for core finance, but I'll then extend, i.e., ERP suite, the other capabilities and then we're able to have a competitive displacement." That happens on a regular.

讓我開始，然後，克里斯蒂安，請補充一下。 所以我認為我們必須明確，當客戶決定遷移到 RISE 時，他們不僅僅是對當前環境進行遷移並複製相同的功能;事實上，遠非如此。他們正在嘗試轉變、操作性地處理他們的所有數據以及為現在和未來提供服務的所有能力。他們正在著手開展業務。因此，當他們看到這些時，這就是為什麼，回答你的問題，較大的交易是因為他們著眼於多年的能力路線圖，從舊狀態（包括非 SAP）過渡。因此，我們看到很多情況下，我們的客戶會說：「好吧，我可能會使用SAP 進行核心財務，但隨後我會擴展，即ERP 套件和其他功能，然後我們就能夠擁有具有競爭力的產品。這種情況經常發生。

So whether you look at the SKFs, the Curtiss-Wrights and the others that Christian mentioned in his opening, and then you see the chart of all the other RISE customers, they're nearly always bringing the BTP, which is displacing other technology platforms and using that as the innovation platform. They're using other extension, whether it be our Ariba, Concur, SuccessFactors, to be able to provide its people spend. So yes, we are seeing that, but then the compelling event is obviously an initial move and then a multiyear journey when they're on a large deal, which makes up a big portion of the Q1 results that you see.

因此，無論您查看 SKF、Curtiss-Wrights 以及 Christian 在開場白中提到的其他公司，然後查看所有其他 RISE 客戶的圖表，您都會發現他們幾乎總是帶來 BTP，這正在取代其他技術平台並以此作為創新平台。他們正在使用其他擴展，無論是我們的 Ariba、Concur、SuccessFactors，以便能夠為其人員提供支出。所以，是的，我們看到了這一點，但引人注目的事件顯然是一個初步舉措，然後是當他們進行一項大交易時的多年旅程，這構成了你看到的第一季度業績的很大一部分。

Maybe to shed some more light on the numbers. I mean, what you also see with RISE, it's not that we are landing, of course, and converting maintenance with a factor of 2 to 3x to the cloud, what we are then seeing after is that next on the land-and-expand, customers who want to replace their HCM module. And this is then oftentimes a double-digit success factor, employee central deal. Needless to say, payroll is a massive business, which we are also more and more now shifting to the cloud. So there are a lot of large cross-sell opportunity after we landed with RISE.

也許是為了對這些數字有更多的了解。我的意思是，您在 RISE 中也看到了，當然，這並不是說我們正在著陸，並將維護工作以 2 到 3 倍的速度轉換到雲端，我們接下來看到的是著陸和擴展，想要更換HCM 模組的客戶。這通常是兩位數的成功因素，即員工核心交易。不用說，薪資是一項龐大的業務，我們現在也越來越多地轉向雲端運算。所以我們登陸RISE之後有很多大的交叉銷售機會。

On BTP, I mentioned 1 customer. Actually, for BTP, we also oftentimes see now double-digit ACV deals with our large customers as they are not only using the platform for integration but also for the extension for the Clean Core Journey. And then last, but not least, when it comes to the volume business growth, that's rightfully driven by our ecosystem, but our resellers. But oftentimes, you'll start with a $500,000 deal with some users, it scales. And then you start finance, HR. And then you expand into manufacturing cloud or into billing, et cetera. And in the meantime, you see that customers are growing from $500,000 to $2 million to $3 million ACV. And of course, this is not the end, but you see that this massive volume business will also further contribute to the growth. After landing and signing deals, net new customers will also become way bigger over time.

在 BTP 上，我提到了 1 位客戶。實際上，對於 BTP 來說，我們現在也經常看到與我們的大客戶達成兩位數的 ACV 交易，因為他們不僅使用該平台進行集成，而且還使用該平台來擴展 Clean Core Journey。最後但並非最不重要的一點是，當涉及到業務量增長時，這理所當然地是由我們的生態系統以及我們的經銷商推動的。但通常情況下，您會從與一些用戶達成 50 萬美元的交易開始，這樣規模就會擴大。然後你開始財務、人力資源。然後您擴展到製造雲或計費等領域。同時，您會看到客戶的 ACV 從 50 萬美元成長到 200 萬美元，再到 300 萬美元。當然，這還不是結束，但你會看到，這龐大的業務量還將進一步促進成長。登陸並簽署交易後，淨新客戶也將隨著時間的推移而變得更大。

The next question is from the line of Michael J. Briest with UBS Limited.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS Limited) 的 Michael J. Briest。

Just on your comments, Christian, about applying AI internally. I think you mentioned a figure of sort of triple-digit million. Can you give us a sense of where that comes from? And is this EUR 100 million to EUR 150 million or high triple-digit million and over what time you might realize that?

克里斯蒂安，只是關於你關於內部應用人工智慧的評論。我想你提到了三位數的數字。你能讓我們了解一下它是從哪裡來的嗎？這是 1 億歐元到 1.5 億歐元還是高達三位數的百萬歐元？

And just a quick clarification, Dominik, on the free cash flow. It's obviously very good. Did that include the final repayment of the factoring of, think about, EUR 200 million that's spilled over from last year? And obviously, you're saying that the restructuring is not quite finalized yet potentially. Clearly, your EUR 3.5 billion number is safe for you, that number does creep up a bit.

多明尼克，請快速澄清一下自由現金流。顯然是非常好的。這是否包括去年溢出的 2 億歐元保理最終償還？顯然，你是說重組尚未完全敲定。顯然，您的 35 億歐元數字對您來說是安全的，這個數字確實有點上升。

I can start on the internal rollout of AI. Yes, indeed, it's a triple-digit million of efficiencies. And what we are already doing right now, we roll out Joule, especially for SAP SuccessFactors. So job description, learning CoPilot, interviews feedback, that's all automated now via Joule. In procurement, we have current recommendations rolled out in category tools. In IT, or in the cost functions, for example, take F&A, we have to screen hundreds of thousands of contracts every year. That's now completely automated with generating AI. In Scott's world, in the sales world, we actually also use now AI for content generation for demo, actually for the business case creation, which saves a lot of time.

我可以開始人工智慧的內部推廣。是的，確實，這是三位數的效率。我們現在已經在做的事情是推出 Joule，特別是針對 SAP SuccessFactors。因此，工作說明、學習 CoPilot、面試回饋，現在都透過 Joule 實現自動化。在採購方面，我們在類別工具中推出了目前的建議。在IT領域，或在成本函數中，例如，以F&A為例，我們每年必須篩選數十萬份合約。現在透過產生人工智慧完全自動化了。在斯科特的世界中，在銷售世界中，我們現在實際上也使用人工智慧來產生演示內容，實際上用於創建業務案例，這節省了大量時間。

Development, of course, we have GitHub but then also we are using our own SAP built automated cogeneration tool, for example, for ABAP. If you think about that, we can increase the productivity of each developer by up to 30% to 40% already this year, by our own SAP build solution and also by GitHub. You can imagine the scale and the efficiencies we are going to generate in the years to come also by applying AI internally.

當然，開發方面我們有 GitHub，但我們也使用我們自己的 SAP 建構的自動化熱電聯產工具，例如 ABAP。如果您考慮這一點，今年我們可以透過我們自己的 SAP 建置解決方案以及 GitHub 將每個開發人員的生產力提高多達 30% 到 40%。你可以想像我們在未來幾年透過內部應用人工智慧將產生的規模和效率。

Dominik?

多明尼克？

On the free cash flow side, you asked about the kind of discontinuation of the factoring, I would say, it was, yes, partially, not fully, because there are some deals which might spend longer term. But we basically, in 2024, discontinue this practice, so you already see a part of the roll-off. I want to highlight though that the bigger thing, so to speak, in Q1 still is that we paid the fines, the famous EUR 0.2 billion on DOJ and other authorities. So that was weighing in Q1 and is already digested. So we're also very pleased with the free cash flow performance in Q1.

在自由現金流方面，您詢問了保理業務的終止類型，我想說，是的，是部分終止，而不是全部終止，因為有些交易可能會花費更長的時間。但我們基本上會在 2024 年停止這種做法，因此您已經看到了部分下滑。但我想強調的是，可以說，第一季更重要的事情仍然是我們向司法部和其他當局支付了著名的 2 億歐元罰款。所以這是第一季的權重，而且已經被消化了。因此，我們對第一季的自由現金流表現也非常滿意。

The next question is from the line of James Goodman with Barclays Capital.

下一個問題來自巴克萊資本的詹姆斯·古德曼。

Maybe with investor focus, I think, increasingly shifting beyond '25, I want to just come back just to some commentary around the transition at a high level and specifically sort of framing that in a financial sense. The maintenance base that still remains in the business today, can you help us a little bit with just how much of that really needs to transition to cloud? I mean I'm conscious that there was sales, for example, of S/4 before the RISE program, for example, came in. And really then just when does that substantially need to be done by given the 2027 deadline but also the extended support period beyond that, so just how much of the base really and over what period?

我認為，也許隨著投資者的關注點在 25 世紀之後逐漸轉移，我只想回到一些關於高層次轉型的評論，並從財務意義上具體闡述這一點。如今，業務中仍然存在維護基礎，您能否幫助我們了解其中有多少真正需要過渡到雲端？我的意思是，我意識到，在 RISE 計劃實施之前，例如 S/4 就已銷售。 ，那麼到底有多少基數以及在什麼時期呢？

And just a related second question, just around the services business only growing 1% this quarter, I know it's a slightly tougher comp, but given the demand for implementation work and such, like here around S/4, I might have expected that to be a little higher. Are you expecting it to pick back up? Or is there a structural reason it remains lower?

還有一個相關的第二個問題，就服務業務本季僅成長1% 而言，我知道這是一個稍微艱難的競爭，但考慮到實施工作等的需求，就像S/4 周圍的情況一樣，我可能預計會高一點。你期待它回升嗎？還是有結構性原因導致其維持較低水準？

So maintenance, a little bit more than half of our EUR 11 billion maintenance base we have today is in products, which go out of regular maintenance by end of 2027. And then the question is how much of that will still not convert to cloud but will go to extended maintenance at a higher cost, so that's the parameter. And I think it's safe to assume that the lion's share of all that by 2030 will, at some fashion, disappear because we will not, as we say so many times, prolong maintenance on these products. Of course, the rest being on other products, also, of course, on S/4, which you know has a kind of lifetime through 2040, so there's ample room there. But indeed, there is an anticipation that there will be an acceleration in conversions from that angle as people need to transition from ECC to cloud given what I just described.

因此，維護方面，我們目前擁有的 110 億歐元維護基礎中，有一半以上是產品，到 2027 年底，這些產品將停止定期維護。以更高的成本進行延長的維護，所以這就是參數。我認為可以有把握地假設，到 2030 年，其中的大部分將以某種方式消失，因為我們不會像我們多次說過的那樣延長這些產品的維護時間。當然，其餘的都在其他產品上，當然還有 S/4，你知道它的生命週期到 2040 年，所以那裡有足夠的空間。但事實上，鑑於我剛才描述的情況，人們預計從這個角度來看，轉換將會加速，因為人們需要從 ECC 過渡到雲端。

On the services business, I mean, Scott, please also feel free to comment. I mean, look, on services, first of all, we are delivering 90% of our projects via ecosystem and the remainder, the 10% share, of course, what we are doing there, yes, there was some seasonality with the Easter holidays now in Q1, we had some onetime last year in Q1, but in a nutshell, of course, this business will, of course, continue also show growth going forward. And what is very important with regard to our services business, what we are focusing is more on the high-margin services like when you're going into a RISE deal, you need a great architecture that will connect the process, the system and the data layer to drive this holistic transformation.

關於服務業務，我的意思是，斯科特，也請隨意發表評論。我的意思是，看，在服務方面，首先，我們透過生態系統交付 90% 的項目，其餘的 10% 份額，當然，我們在那裡做什麼，是的，復活節假期有一些季節性現在在第一季度，我們去年在第一季曾經有過一些業務，但簡而言之，這項業務當然還將繼續顯示出未來的成長。對我們的服務業務來說非常重要的是，我們更專注的是高利潤服務，例如當你進行 RISE 交易時，你需要一個偉大的架構來連接流程、系統和資料層來推動這一整體轉型。

Then we have the best process experts here when you talk about business model, transformation, when you talk about design to operate. Obviously, of course, our consultants need to be leading and also sharing best practices of other customers. While, of course, main part of the technical migration or the technical consulting will be delivered by our ecosystem, rightfully delivered by our ecosystem.

當你談論商業模式、轉型，當你談論設計和營運時，我們這裡有最好的流程專家。當然，顯然我們的顧問需要發揮領導作用並分享其他客戶的最佳實踐。當然，技術遷移或技術諮詢的主要部分將由我們的生態系統提供，並由我們的生態系統正確提供。

I just want to add one thing back on the support revenue that Dominik described. Bear in mind that when we talk, on one hand, about large deals, when you've got these large programs of transformation, that includes a period of coexistence where customers will keep the maintenance of their on-premise capability until such time that they've transformed into the cloud. So that steady progress accelerated transformation, it's happening in tandem. So as you see the cloud revenue growth, you will also see the corresponding takedown of the support revenues, but it is in light of a customer's transformation. So all the RISE customers that were existing, customers that you saw in Q1, in quarters in the past, go through that journey. And so you can see a measured and managed downgrade of the support in light with the cloud lifting in correspondence.

我只想在多米尼克描述的支援收入上補充一件事。請記住，一方面，當我們談論大型交易時，當您擁有這些大型轉型計劃時，其中包括一段共存期，客戶將繼續維護其本地功能，直到他們已經轉變為雲端。因此，穩定的進展加速了轉型，它是同步發生的。因此，當您看到雲端收入成長時，您也會看到支援收入相應減少，但這是根據客戶的轉型而實現的。因此，所有現有的 RISE 客戶，您在第一季、過去幾季看到的客戶，都經歷了這個過程。因此，您可以看到與雲端提升相對應的支援的有計劃和有管理的降級。

And maybe one word regarding the maintenance because, I guess, yes, this is an important factor in all the modules. I mean, look, there are certain parts of an ERP. As I also mentioned at the beginning, it's a monolithic ERP architecture. And in there is, for example, also BW system. And for example, a BW system is not so easily replaced. There's also a lot of custom code build. It's a massive reporting engine. And with Datasphere and with our partners, we, of course, also now more and more shifting this to the cloud.

也許還有一個關於維護的詞，因為我想，是的，這是所有模組中的一個重要因素。我的意思是，看，ERP 有某些部分。正如我在開始時提到的，它是一個整體 ERP 架構。例如，其中還有 BW 系統。例如，BW 系統就不那麼容易被替換。還有很多自訂程式碼建置。這是一個龐大的報告引擎。當然，透過 Datasphere 和我們的合作夥伴，我們現在也越來越多地將其轉移到雲端。

Will it all be Ws, completely migrated to the cloud by 2027? No. But we will, of course, partially replace them over time. So it's fair to assume that, of course, some maintenance revenue will also be after 2027. That's all moduled in. And then what I see now with business AI, the upside in accelerating the move of our installed base because every customer now finally gets that in the cloud, there is so much innovation. There's also with AI differentiation. So I actually expect that we see a further acceleration of our installed base move to the cloud.

到2027年，一切都會Ws，完全遷移到雲端嗎？不會。因此，可以公平地假設，當然，一些維護收入也將在2027 年之後出現。現在最終都得到了在雲端中，有如此多的創新。還有人工智慧差異化。因此，我實際上預計我們的安裝基礎會進一步加速向雲端遷移。

The next question is from the line of Mohammed Moawalla with Goldman Sachs International.

下一個問題來自高盛國際公司的穆罕默德‧莫阿瓦拉 (Mohammed Moawalla)。

I had two quick ones, if I may. First one, for Dominik, you talked about kind of a minimal amount of the transformation charge taken in Q1. How should we think of the phasing of that over the course of the year? And I kind of understand that you're still in discussion with kind of affected employees. And how should that kind of phase through the course of the year?

如果可以的話，我有兩個快速的。第一個，對於多明尼克來說，您談到了第一季所採取的最低限度的轉型費用。我們該如何看待這一年中的分階段實施？我了解到您仍在與受影響的員工進行討論。這一年的階段該如何度過？

And then secondly, for Dominik as well, you alluded to earlier in the year that your kind of 2025 guidance still doesn't assume any significant working capital kind of improvements. But I know there's seasonality in the working capital, particularly in Q1. Are there any kind of plans or initiatives, whether it's around sort of shifting the kind of the invoicing to annual or other kind of collections levers that you can press on? And would you inclined to perhaps pass on some of those savings elsewhere in investments in the business? Or could that be as seen as a potential upside risk?

其次，對於多明尼克來說，您在今年稍早提到，您的 2025 年指引仍然沒有假設營運資本有任何重大改進。但我知道營運資金存在季節性，特別是在第一季。是否有任何類型的計劃或舉措，是否是將發票類型轉變為年度或其他類型的收款槓桿？您是否願意將部分節省的資金用於其他業務投資？或者這會被視為潛在的上行風險？

Well, thanks. A lot of questions in one go, so to speak, almost like a planning discussion. So in terms of phasing, what I mentioned is that of the EUR 2.2 billion accrued for restructuring, very little, if anything, has been kind of paid already in Q1. So I talked about cash out as opposed to the accrual. The accrual has been taken, and we said the vast majority of the accruals we currently expect have been taken in Q1. The program will run throughout the year and actually into Q1 2025. So it's not the final number yet. There are voluntary programs in there where we have to wait for the acceptance rate. There are still negotiations with social partners.

非常感謝。一口氣提出很多問題，可以說，幾乎就像一場計劃討論。因此，就分階段而言，我提到的是，在用於重組的 22 億歐元中，第一季已經支付的金額（如果有的話）也很少。所以我談論的是現金支出而不是應計費用。應計費用已計入，我們表示目前預期的絕大多數應計費用已在第一季計入。該計劃將全年運行，實際上會持續到 2025 年第一季。那裡有一些自願項目，我們必須等待錄取率。仍在與社會夥伴進行協商。

I did mention that in the U.S., we actually had a very high acceptance rate, which kind of drove that accrual up a little bit. Also, the share price increase has driven the accrual up a little bit because, obviously, we have to compensate more for the entitlements of the people that are leaving because they are good levers if we want them to leave, so to speak. But we also said that let's see what's coming beyond that, if anything. Of course, we will only go for more reductions than what we have planned in case there is a good business case. Otherwise, it wouldn't sense. So I think you can rest assured on that one.

我確實提到過，在美國，我們的錄取率實際上非常高，這在某種程度上推動了應計費用的上升。此外，股價上漲也推動了應計費用的增加，因為顯然，我們必須對即將離開的人的權利進行更多補償，因為如果我們希望他們離開，他們就是很好的槓桿，可以這麼說。但我們也說過，讓我們看看除此之外還會發生什麼事（如果有的話）。當然，只有在有良好的商業案例的情況下，我們才會進行比計劃更多的削減。不然就沒感覺了。所以我想你可以放心這一點。

With regards to the cash flow in 2025, you mentioned that we have been not super aggressive in terms of working capital improvements in 2025. We are making some progress as we speak. I want to caution that we have really a very comprehensive transformation program and really executing the head count reduction is of utmost important, so that's the key priority right now. There are certainly opportunities.

關於2025年的現金流，您提到我們在2025年的營運資本改善方面並不是非常積極。 就在我們發言的時候，我們正在取得一些進展。我想提醒大家的是，我們確實有一個非常全面的轉型計劃，真正執行裁員是最重要的，所以這是現在的首要任務。當然有機會。

We did mention that the EUR 8 billion free cash flow ambition for 2025 was assuming no spillover of restructuring cash out into 2025, so that is kind of the potential risk there that, if you spill over some cash out from 2024 or restructuring in 2025, that will weigh on that. But then the question is, I mean, to what degree can we offset? So I don't want to kind of go into more details at that point in time. But obviously, that is one of the questions. As we mature our restructuring program, we have more clarity on how many people are leaving, at what cost. With the phasing of the cash out, we can sharpen pencil and update either.

我們確實提到，2025 年 80 億歐元的自由現金流目標是假設重組現金不會溢出到 2025 年，因此存在潛在風險，如果您從 2024 年溢出一些現金或在 2025 年進行重組，這將會影響到這一點。但問題是，我的意思是，我們可以在多大程度上抵消？所以我不想在那個時間點透露更多細節。但顯然，這是問題之一。隨著重整計畫的成熟，我們更加清楚有多少人將離開，代價是多少。隨著現金的逐步支出，我們可以削尖鉛筆並進行更新。

And maybe one word from my side on the workforce transformation. As Dominik is saying, yes, we are a little bit ahead after we started the restructuring program on people leaving SAP, and we do this in a very controlled manner. We have identified the job profiles, which we either reskill or actually want to reduce, also why our restructuring. And then second, we bring all the data scientists and new capabilities also onboard for the platform, which we need to capture our future growth opportunity. And if there are more levers, of course, the business case needs to make sense. So you can actually expect that we also then, of course, manage this also tightly in the next quarters.

也許還有我自己關於勞動轉型的一句話。正如 Dominik 所說，是的，在我們啟動 SAP 人員離職重組計劃後，我們已經領先了一點，而且我們以一種非常可控的方式做到了這一點。我們已經確定了我們要重新培訓或實際上想要減少的工作內容，以及我們重組的原因。其次，我們為該平台引入了所有資料科學家和新功能，這是我們抓住未來成長機會所需的。當然，如果有更多的槓桿，那麼商業案例就需要有意義。因此，您實際上可以預期，我們當然也會在接下來的幾個季度中嚴格管理這一點。

The final question for today comes from the line of Charles Brennan with Jefferies.

今天的最後一個問題來自查爾斯布倫南 (Charles Brennan) 和傑弗里斯 (Jefferies)。

I was wondering if you could just say something very quickly about the cloud incentives that you rolled out in Q1. I know you started those in Q4 of last year. It sounds like they were a bit more extensive in the quarter. Do you think that made much of an impact to the accelerating CCB? And I know the incentives were only for the first year of this transformation. Does it actually act potentially a headwind to the CCB?

我想知道您是否可以快速介紹一下您在第一季推出的雲端激勵措施。我知道您在去年第四季就開始了這些工作。聽起來他們在本季的範圍更加廣泛。您認為這對加速發展的建行有很大影響嗎？我知道激勵措施僅適用於此轉型的第一年。它真的會對中國建設銀行產生潛在的阻力嗎？

And then secondly, can I just squeeze a financial clarification in just on the stock-based comp? I think you said it was EUR 100 million incremental charge in the quarter. But what are you assuming on a full year basis? And in your unchanged EBIT guidance, what's helping to offset that higher share-based comp?

其次，我可以只對基於股票的比較進行財務澄清嗎？我想您說過該季度的增量費用為 1 億歐元。但你對全年的假設是什麼呢？在您不變的息稅前利潤指導中，什麼有助於抵消較高的基於股票的比較？

Scott, I can go first, and please build on it. I mean, first of all, on the migration incentives. I guess the major change which we did, which is not impacting margins, is that we are not only incentivizing now anymore S/4HANA finance, but we're incentivizing Cloud ERP as we have to also move our monolithic ERP on-premise system to the cloud. And there, we are talking about HR, travel, procurement, all the modules I mentioned already at the beginning of the call. And they are now also incentivized to migrate, which just makes a ton of sense because you actually have a onetime migration fund but then you're actually building a recurring revenue stream.

史考特，我可以先走，請在此基礎上繼續努力。我的意思是，首先是移民激勵措施。我想我們所做的主要變化（不影響利潤率）是，我們現在不僅不再激勵 S/4HANA 財務，而且還激勵雲端 ERP，因為我們還必須將單一 ERP 本地系統遷移到雲端 ERP。在那裡，我們正在討論人力資源、差旅、採購，以及我在通話開始時提到的所有模組。他們現在也受到了遷移的激勵，這非常有意義，因為你實際上擁有一次性遷移基金，但實際上你正在建立經常性收入流。

And these deals, you also see it in the multiple, the multiple is not going down, are extremely healthy. And then while you have this onetime efforts on the migration fund, you see then the recurring revenue coming in, the cross-sell, the upsell we do over the course of the year. So I actually see this as a very positive incentive for our customers. And it will also, of course, also help us to further expand our footprint in the installed base.

這些交易，你也可以在倍數中看到，倍數沒有下降，非常健康。然後，當您在移民基金上進行一次性努力時，您會看到我們在這一年中進行的經常性收入、交叉銷售和追加銷售。所以我實際上認為這對我們的客戶來說是一個非常積極的激勵。當然，它也將幫助我們進一步擴大我們在安裝基礎上的足跡。

Scott?

史考特？

Yes. I think just two things to add to what you described, Christian. The first is these customers, many of these customers have invested heavily with SAP over a long period of time. And we acknowledge that with those investments made in the past, our role about helping them on the transformation becomes more important than ever. So the transformation incentive to be able to migrate is a part of a broader picture, helping them on an ongoing road map, driving to that Clean Core architecture and making sure they can leverage the business AI. So it not just provides a financial benefit but is also the role and the method and the tooling that SAP brings to help them on that journey. And the two in combination then becomes a more compelling factor for our customers to drive.

是的。我認為在你所描述的基礎上只需補充兩點，克里斯蒂安。首先是這些客戶，其中許多客戶在很長一段時間內對SAP進行了大量投資。我們承認，透過過去進行的這些投資，我們幫助他們實現轉型的角色變得比以往任何時候都更加重要。因此，能夠遷移的轉型誘因是更廣闊前景的一部分，幫助他們制定持續的路線圖，推動清潔核心架構並確保他們可以利用業務人工智慧。因此，它不僅提供了經濟利益，而且還提供了 SAP 為他們提供幫助的角色、方法和工具。兩者結合起來就成為我們客戶駕駛時更具吸引力的因素。

And then secondly, it can be applied in multiple ways. So the incentive can be used against not only on maybe their maintenance but also for services and for other capabilities, including our ecosystem partners, to help them drive that.

其次，它可以以多種方式應用。因此，激勵措施不僅可以用於維護，還可以用於服務和其他功能，包括我們的生態系統合作夥伴，以幫助他們推動這一目標。

One last word on the TCO and on cloud gross margin, I mean, you have seen, if you would now exclude the stock-based and the higher share price in Q1, actually, we have a very healthy expansion of our cloud gross margin. And what is coming from a TCO perspective in the next weeks, months, quarters, is we are now embedding Arm processors into our solutions. We are moving more and more of our solutions also now to HANA Cloud in a nondisruptive way. It's already all baked in, also cost-wise in our guidance, which will also give us enormously more scale to also balance peak workloads much better in the future.

關於TCO 和雲毛利率的最後一句話，我的意思是，您已經看到，如果您現在排除基於股票的和第一季較高的股價，實際上，我們的雲毛利率有非常健康的擴張。從 TCO 的角度來看，未來幾週、幾個月、幾季我們將把 Arm 處理器嵌入到我們的解決方案中。我們現在也以不間斷的方式將越來越多的解決方案遷移到 HANA 雲端。這一切都已經在我們的指導中得到了體現，在成本方面也是如此，這也將為我們帶來更大的規模，以便在未來更好地平衡尖峰工作負載。

And then when you look at the RISE journey, I mean the customers are now at 20% to 30% of the migration done. And of course, the more workloads you are putting on the architecture, on the infrastructure, the more economies of scale you are getting. So we are also very happy with the progress we are seeing on margin, especially profits in the private cloud. So now actually, I'm very confident also about a further gross margin expansion then also not only this year but also in the years to come.

然後，當您查看 RISE 旅程時，我的意思是客戶現在已完成遷移的 20% 到 30%。當然，您在架構、基礎架構上投入的工作負載越多，您獲得的規模經濟就越大。因此，我們對利潤率方面取得的進展也非常滿意，尤其是私有雲的利潤。所以現在實際上，我對毛利率的進一步擴大也非常有信心，不僅是今年，而且是未來幾年。

Maybe on the stock-based compensation, Charles, so the kind of EUR 135 million increase was kind of the order of magnitude, which was unexpected, because we actually said that we had EUR 2.2 billion in stock-based compensation last year in 2023. We said that in our ambition update, when we included stock-based compensation, we include about EUR 2 billion in 2025. We also said that 2024 will be somewhere in the middle. But we now see that because of that very, very strong share price increase in Q1, that kind of EUR 135 million increase will basically feed to the year.

也許在基於股票的薪酬方面，查爾斯，1.35 億歐元的增長是一個數量級，這是出乎意料的，因為我們實際上說去年 2023 年我們有 22 億歐元的基於股票的薪酬。在的雄心更新中，當我們納入以股票為基礎的薪酬時，我們在2025 年納入了約20 億歐元。但我們現在看到，由於第一季股價上漲非常非常強勁，1.35 億歐元的成長基本上將回饋到今年。

Why don't we think that will reoccur? Because simply, there are two parts to that, which drove it up. One is the exceptionally high increase in the share price. I mean if you think about the 29%, 30% we've seen in Q1 and you compare it to the normal standard deviation we have in any given quarter over the last 10, 20 years, it's actually a 2.3 to 2.4 standard deviation variance. So it happens once every 100 quarters actually from a statistical point of view.

為什麼我們不認為這種情況會再發生？因為簡單來說，有兩個部分推動了它的發展。一是股價漲幅異常高。我的意思是，如果你考慮我們在第一季看到的29%、30%，並將其與過去10 年、20 年任何給定季度的正常標準差進行比較，它實際上是2.3 到2.4 個標準差變異數。所以從統計的角度來看，這種情況實際上每 100 個季度就會發生一次。

Secondly, we are losing the sensitivity, so to speak, because this was the last kind of fully cash settled tranche under this Move 2021 Program, which is by far the largest. And as we move to more equity settle, which is not flowing through the P&L, we don't expect that sensitivity to stay so high. So now, yes, we did compensate, to a certain degree, in our guidance, and that's simply that we kind of grind on all corners to see how we can make up for that because we don't want to kind of be burdened by that, but compensate. It all demonstrates how important it is to embark stock-based compensation in the overall equation. It's a real factor, and actually it becomes more and more valuable, the better the company performs. So from that perspective, I think it was the right decision to make sure we manage it holistically, the cost base, including stock-based compensation.

其次，可以說，我們正在失去敏感性，因為這是迄今為止最大的 Move 2021 計劃下最後一個完全現金結算的部分。隨著我們轉向更多的股權結算（不流經損益表），我們預計這種敏感性不會保持如此高的水平。所以現在，是的，我們確實在一定程度上在我們的指導中進行了補償，這只是我們在各個方面都進行了磨礪，看看如何彌補這一點，因為我們不想受到負擔那個，但是補償。這一切都表明，在整體等式中採用以股票為基礎的薪酬是多麼重要。這是一個真實的因素，而且公司表現越好，它的價值就越大。因此，從這個角度來看，我認為確保我們全面管理成本基礎（包括以股票為基礎的薪酬）是正確的決定。

Thank you, Charlie, for your question. Thanks, Christian, Scott and Dominik, and we will conclude the call for today. Thanks for joining.

謝謝你，查理的提問。謝謝克里斯蒂安、斯科特和多明尼克，我們將結束今天的電話會議。感謝您的加入。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. Bye-bye.

謝謝。再見。