SAP SE (SAP) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, and thank you for joining the SAP Q1 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎您，感謝您參加 SAP 2024 年第一季財務業績電話會議。 （操作員指令）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Anthony Coletta, Chief Investor Relations Officer. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給首席投資者關係長安東尼·科萊塔 (Anthony Coletta)。請繼續。

Good evening, everyone, and welcome. Thank you for joining us. With me today are CEO, Christian Klein; CFO, Dominik Asam; and Scott Russell, Head of Customer Success. On this call, we will discuss SAP first quarter 2024 results. You can find the deck supplementing this call as well as our quarterly statement on our Investor Relations website.

大家晚上好，歡迎光臨。感謝您加入我們。今天與我在一起的有執行長 Christian Klein；財務長 Dominik Asam；以及客戶成功主管史考特·拉塞爾 (Scott Russell)。在本次電話會議中，我們將討論 SAP 2024 年第一季的業績。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到本次電話會議的補充資料以及我們的季度聲明。

During this call, we'll make forward-looking statements, which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to materially differ. Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our filings with the Security and Exchange Commission, including but not limited to the Risk Factors section of SAP's annual report on Form 20-F for 2023.

在本次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，即對未來事件的預測、預期或其他陳述。這些聲明是基於目前的預期和假設，這些預期和假設受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果和結果有重大差異。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊可以在我們提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中找到，包括但不限於 SAP 2023 年 20-F 表年度報告中的「風險因素」部分。

Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS, and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS year-on-year at constant currencies. The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS.

除非另有說明，本次電話會議中的所有數字均為非國際財務報告準則，且成長率和百分點變動均為固定匯率計算的非國際財務報告準則較去年同期變動。我們提供的非國際財務報告準則財務指標不應被視為替代或優於根據國際財務報告準則編製的財務績效指標。

Before we start, I'd like to first remind everyone of the adjustment to our reporting practices announced on December 18 last year. This adjustment notably incorporating share-based compensation into our non-IFRS results are fully reflected in our Q1 results.

在開始之前，我想先提醒大家注意我們去年12月18日宣布的報告實務調整。此次調整尤其將股權激勵納入了我們的非國際財務報告準則績效中，並充分反映在我們的第一季業績中。

I would also like to call your attention to our upcoming financial analyst conference, which will take place on June 5 as part of our Sapphire event in Orlando, Florida. This will be broadcast on our website.

我還想提請大家關注我們即將舉行的金融分析師會議，該會議將於 6 月 5 日作為我們在佛羅裡達州奧蘭多舉行的 Sapphire 活動的一部分舉行。這將在我們的網站上播出。

And with that, I'd like to now turn the call over to Christian.

說完這些，我現在想把電話轉給克里斯蒂安。

Yes. Thank you, Anthony, and thanks to everyone on the line for joining our first earnings call for 2024.

是的。謝謝安東尼，也謝謝大家參加我們 2024 年第一次財報電話會議。

When we look at SAP's longer-term growth journey, 2024 is a key year. It's the year to scale up revenue and profitability. And I'm so proud to say, what we saw in Q1 makes us very confident about our goals. We are off to a strong start, and we have laid a solid foundation for 2025 and beyond.

當我們回顧 SAP 的長期成長歷程時，2024 年是關鍵的一年。這是增加收入和盈利的一年。我很自豪地說，我們在第一季看到的表現讓我們對我們的目標充滿信心。我們已經有了一個良好的開端，為2025年及以後奠定了堅實的基礎。

Let's look at the key metrics for Q1. Current cloud backlog grew 28% to EUR 14.2 billion. This is the fastest growth on record and demonstrates the strong momentum across our portfolio, with business AI as an enabling factor with a strong impact already on our Q1 backlog.

讓我們來看看第一季的關鍵指標。目前雲端運算積壓訂單成長 28%，達到 142 億歐元。這是有史以​​來最快的成長，體現了我們整個產品組合的強勁勢頭，其中商業人工智慧作為一個推動因素已經對我們的第一季積壓產生了強大的影響。

Cloud revenue increased 25% and reached EUR 3.9 billion. Our operating profit came in at EUR 1.5 billion in Q1, 19% higher than a year ago.

雲端營收成長25%，達到39億歐元。我們第一季的營業利潤為 15 億歐元，比去年同期成長 19%。

The new disclosure of Cloud ERP Suite creates transparency for you and us. It shows how we are executing on moving our installed base to the cloud and how we are driving SAP's ERP leadership position with our land-and-expand strategy. The Cloud ERP Suite contains all the modules for our company's core processes, from finance, brand management and HR to supply chain, commerce and our business technology platform, including data and analytics. Together, these modules have the same functional scope as our monolithic on-premise ERP.

雲端 ERP Suite 的新揭露為您和我們創造了透明度。它展示了我們如何將已安裝的基礎遷移到雲端，以及我們如何透過擴張策略來推動 SAP 的 ERP 領導地位。雲端 ERP 套件包含我們公司核心流程的所有模組，從財務、品牌管理和人力資源到供應鏈、商業和我們的業務技術平台，包括資料和分析。總之，這些模組具有與我們的單一內部部署 ERP 相同的功能範圍。

Our modular and integrated Cloud ERP is unmatched in covering the core processes for over 25 industries and 130 countries in the world, and it represents a $700 billion market opportunity by 2027.

我們的模組化和整合式雲端 ERP 在覆蓋全球 25 多個產業和 130 個國家的核心流程方面無與倫比，到 2027 年它將帶來 7,000 億美元的市場機會。

In Q1, revenue for the Cloud ERP Suite was up 32% and reached EUR 3.2 billion. We have seen exponential growth in this metric for 2 consecutive years as we are successfully expanding our footprint in our installed base.

第一季度，雲端 ERP 套件營收成長 32%，達到 32 億歐元。隨著我們成功擴大安裝基礎，我們已經連續兩年看到該指標呈指數級增長。

The land-and-expand strategy works beautifully. Every customer right now has to redesign core processes end-to-end to master their business transformation in the industry. And this is only the beginning. The flywheel has just started to spin. I will go deeper into that in a minute.

登陸並擴張策略非常有效。現在每個客戶都必須徹底重新設計核心流程，以掌握其在產業中的業務轉型。這只是一個開始。飛輪剛開始旋轉。我稍後將更深入地探討這一點。

There are many exciting customer stories behind our strong start to the year. In Q1, a range of exciting companies signed up for RISE with SAP. To name just a few examples, the premium chocolate maker, Lindt & Sprüngli; the global manufacturing company, SKF; and the U.S. aerospace company, Curtiss-Wright.

在我們今年強勁開局的背後，有許多令人興奮的客戶故事。第一季度，一系列令人興奮的公司與 SAP 共同簽署了 RISE 協議。舉幾個例子，優質巧克力製造商 Lindt & Sprüngli；全球製造公司 SKF；以及美國航空航太公司柯蒂斯-萊特。

We also saw great customer take-up across the portfolio. Maersk, a world leader in container logistics, adopted the a BTP-SD integration and development platforms, spanning across the SAP and non-SAP IT landscape.

我們也看到整個產品組合的客戶接受度很高。貨櫃物流領域的全球領導者馬士基採用了 BTP-SD 整合和開發平台，涵蓋 SAP 和非 SAP IT 環境。

Our GROW with SAP offering was very successful with hundreds of new customers and a 64% share of net new customers in Q1. One of them is the carbon capture start-up, Climeworks.

我們的 GROW with SAP 服務非常成功，第一季吸引了數百名新客戶，淨新增客戶份額達到 64%。其中之一是碳捕獲新創公司Climeworks。

As for our sustainability solutions, we won another 100 customers in Q1 on top of more than 1,000 we had before. New customers like Ericsson, the global leader in wireless technologies; and Vaillant, a leader in energy-saving technologies, chose SAP's sustainability control tower for their regulatory ESG reporting.

至於我們的永續發展解決方案，我們在第一季又贏得了 100 位客戶，之前我們已經有 1,000 多個客戶。新客戶，如全球無線技術領導者愛立信；節能技術領導者 Vaillant 選擇了 SAP 的永續發展控制塔作為其監管 ESG 報告。

So in summary, we had a strong start in Q1, and we are happy to confirm our 2024 outlook as well as our 2025 ambition.

總而言之，我們在第一季有一個良好的開端，我們很高興確認我們的 2024 年展望以及 2025 年目標。

We are also very confident about the resilience of our growth story beyond 2025 because we have all the right ingredients in place. Our 3 growth drivers are RISE with SAP as the leading transformation offering for our installed base; GROW with SAP for net new customers, smaller subsidiaries and acquisitions; and the innovations we delivered and we will release in the upcoming years, above all, business AI.

我們對2025年後的成長前景充滿信心，因為我們已經具備了所有正確的因素。我們的三大成長動力是：RISE，以 SAP 作為我們安裝基礎的領先轉型產品；與 SAP 共同成長，獲得新客戶、小型子公司和收購；以及我們已經實現的和將在未來幾年發布的創新，其中最重要的是商業人工智慧。

Let's first look at RISE with SAP. Our installed base is large, with over EUR 11 billion remaining support revenue to be converted to the cloud, typically by a factor of around 2 to 3. On top, the EUR 700 billion cloud ERP market offers significant cross-selling opportunities. And I have no doubt that SAP's integrated best-of-suite capabilities will win in the core business of our customers.

我們先來看看 SAP 的 RISE。我們的安裝基礎龐大，有超過 110 億歐元的剩餘支援收入可以轉換為雲端，通常轉換倍數約為 2 到 3 倍。我堅信 SAP 的整合最佳功能必將在我們客戶的核心業務中獲勝。

As part of RISE, and via the Clean Core Journey, SAP and our ecosystem will help our customers to remove their ERP custom code and instead develop integrated ERP extensions on BTP. This gives us an immense additional revenue potential, considering that customers in the on-premise world spend up to EUR 7 on custom code for every euro they invest in ERP software. Customers like Hitachi High-Tech, for example, reduced the number of custom code add-ons by over 19%.

作為 RISE 的一部分，透過 Clean Core Journey，SAP 和我們的生態系統將幫助我們的客戶刪除他們的 ERP 自訂程式碼，而是在 BTP 上開發整合的 ERP 擴充。考慮到本地部署領域的客戶在 ERP 軟體上每投資一歐元，就會在自訂程式碼上花費高達 7 歐元，這為我們帶來了巨大的額外收入潛力。例如，日立高科技等客戶將自訂程式碼附加元件的數量減少了 19% 以上。

RISE has just become the de facto standard for our installed base. It offers a holistic business process redesign combined with the migration to our modular cloud ERP, resulting in fast time to value and being always on the latest release, consuming new innovations without time-intensive ERP upgrades like in the past.

RISE 剛剛成為我們安裝基礎的事實標準。它提供了整體的業務流程重新設計，並結合向我們的模組化雲端 ERP 的遷移，從而快速實現價值並始終保持最新版本，無需像過去那樣進行耗時的 ERP 升級即可採用新的創新。

Let's have a brief look at GROW with SAP, our second growth driver. As SAP's greenfield cloud ERP offering for net new customers or new business units of large enterprises, GROW delivers go-lives in weeks for every business model, in every industry, in every country. With our ERP solution, SME customers can grow and scale their business without migrating to a new ERP.

讓我們簡單了解一下我們的第二個成長動力「GROW with SAP」。作為 SAP 為大型企業的新客戶或新業務部門提供的綠地雲 ERP，GROW 可在數週內為所有行業、所有國家/地區的每種業務模式提供上線服務。透過我們的 ERP 解決方案，中小企業客戶無需遷移到新的 ERP 即可發展和擴展業務。

Ultimately, RISE and GROW offer customers similar advantages: innovation, modularity, scalability and integration.

最終，RISE 和 GROW 為客戶提供類似的優勢：創新、模組化、可擴展性和整合。

Coming to the third driver of our growth, which is innovation, with business AI at the core. SAP business AI will once again transform how businesses run and how end users will work in the future. At SAP, we infused business AI across our portfolio. First of all, Joule will be our new user experience via natural language, our ONE front end. We have based our Joule road map on an analysis of the most frequent business and analytical transactions of our end users. This way, we make sure that the most heavily used transactions will be fully AI enabled by the end of this year.

我們成長的第三個動力是創新，其核心是商業 AI。 SAP 業務 AI 將再次改變企業的營運方式和未來最終使用者的工作方式。在 SAP，我們在整個產品組合中註入了商業 AI。首先，Joule 將透過自然語言成為我們的新使用者體驗，也就是我們的 ONE 前端。我們根據對最終用戶最常見的業務和分析交易的分析制定了 Joule 路線圖。透過這種方式，我們可以確保到今年年底，最常用的交易將完全實現人工智慧支援。

Second, we are embedding gen AI directly in our cloud products. Since Q4, we have released over 30 new AI scenarios across our cloud portfolio. Additional ones come out almost every week, with more than 100 in the pipeline for the remainder of the year.

第二，我們將人工智慧直接嵌入我們的雲端產品。自第四季度以來，我們已經在我們的雲端產品組合中發布了 30 多個新的 AI 場景。幾乎每週都會有新片上映，今年剩餘時間還將有 100 多部新片上映。

Third, our customers, partners and SAP can use the AI foundation on the BTP, including the gen AI hub to build custom AI scenarios. Over 60 ecosystem partners are taking advantage of these capabilities already and working on over 80 use cases right now. Among the over 27,000 customers already using our business AI is ZF Friedrichshafen, a leading automotive supplier. ZF is lifting significant financial value by optimizing demand and supply chain planning with embedded AI.

第三，我們的客戶、合作夥伴和 SAP 可以使用 BTP 上的 AI 基礎，包括 gen AI hub 來建立客製化的 AI 場景。超過 60 個生態系統合作夥伴正在利用這些功能，目前正在研究 80 多個用例。目前已有超過 27,000 名客戶使用我們的商業 AI，其中包括領先的汽車供應商 ZF Friedrichshafen。 ZF 透過嵌入式 AI 優化需求與供應鏈規劃，提升了龐大的財務價值。

Together with our partner, NVIDIA, we are currently building new gen AI capabilities. One use case will revolutionize how software will be developed in the future. Jensen and I are looking forward to telling you more about this partnership at Sapphire.

我們目前正在與合作夥伴 NVIDIA 一起建立新一代 AI 功能。一個用例將徹底改變未來軟體的開發方式。 Jensen 和我期待向您介紹有關 Sapphire 此次合作的更多資訊。

Commercially, customers can buy SAP business AI as consumption-based AI units, which can be used across the entire portfolio or via our premium RISE and GROW offerings that include AI units, so customers can get started right away. Both commercial offers have already seen high demand, and many Q1 deals were influenced by SAP business AI.

從商業角度來看，客戶可以購買 SAP 商業 AI 作為基於消費的 AI 單元，這些單元可以在整個產品組合中使用，也可以透過包含 AI 單元的高級 RISE 和 GROW 產品使用，因此客戶可以立即開始使用。這兩個商業報價都已需求旺盛，許多第一季的交易都受到 SAP 業務 AI 的影響。

Overall, we offer a unique value proposition versus the competition with 3 elements. SAP business AI works out of the box. For their own gen AI-enabled extensions, customers and partners have full choice which leading model they want to use, including modules from OpenAI, Google, the best open source alternatives, or using their own modules. And SAP business AI comes with our leading enterprise standards and is deeply integrated with our data and security module.

整體而言，與競爭對手相比，我們透過三個要素提供了獨特的價值主張。 SAP 業務 AI 開箱即用。對於他們自己的新一代 AI 擴展，客戶和合作夥伴可以完全選擇他們想要使用的領先模型，包括來自 OpenAI、Google、最佳開源替代方案的模組，或使用自己的模組。 SAP Business AI 採用了我們領先的企業標準，並且與我們的資料和安全模組深度整合。

In summary, we had a strong start to 2024, and we are confident we will achieve our goal for the year. Looking ahead, we have powerful growth drivers in place and many innovations in our R&D pipeline. The strong development of our cloud backlog is a testament to that momentum.

總而言之，我們在 2024 年有一個好的開端，我們有信心實現今年的目標。展望未來，我們擁有強大的成長動力，研發管道中還有眾多創新。我們的雲端運算積壓業務的強勁發展證明了這一勢頭。

With regard to our transformation program, we are making even better progress than expected, especially with hiring new talent for future-oriented areas, such as AI. The program will help us to capture growth and increase efficiency at the same time, among other things by pushing the internal use of AI. We expect a triple-digit million amount in efficiencies from embedding AI across all our processes.

關於我們的轉型計劃，我們取得了比預期更好的進展，特別是在面向未來的領域（例如人工智慧）招募新的人才。該計劃將幫助我們實現成長，同時提高效率，其中包括推動人工智慧的內部使用。我們預計，透過將人工智慧嵌入我們的所有流程中，效率將提高數千萬。

Equally important for us as an employer, wherever SAP colleagues are affected by restructuring, we are moving with care and empathy, always aware of our social responsibility.

對我們身為雇主來說同樣重要的是，無論 SAP 同事在哪裡受到重組的影響，我們都會以關懷和同理心採取行動，始終意識到我們的社會責任。

And with that, I'm handing over to you, Dominik.

現在，我將把麥克風交給你，多明尼克。

Thank you, Christian, and thank you all for joining us this evening.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安，也謝謝大家今晚參加我們的活動。

Let me start by echoing Christian's sentiment that the fundamentals remain exceptionally strong. March marked my anniversary as SAP's CFO, and I consider myself very fortunate to have joined the company just in time with the business in pole position to capitalize on the tremendous AI opportunity lying ahead of us. The hard work over prior years starts to pay off handsomely, also for those investors who kept the pace in the company during these turbulent times.

首先，我要贊同克里斯蒂安的觀點：基本面依然強勁。三月是我擔任 SAP 財務長的周年紀念日，我很幸運能夠在公司業務處於有利地位時加入公司，利用我們面前巨大的人工智慧機會。過去幾年的辛勤工作開始獲得豐厚的回報，對於那些在動盪時期保持公司步伐的投資者來說也是如此。

It is because of the dedication of our workforce that we continue to experience strength across the business. Our solutions are becoming increasingly differentiated demonstrated by continued revenue growth throughout the world, expanding cloud gross profit and improved cash conversion. We've kept the promise and walked the talk, setting the stage for sustained growth in the coming years.

正是由於我們員工的奉獻精神，我們整個業務才不斷保持強勁。我們的解決方案正變得越來越差異化，這體現在全球收入的持續成長、雲毛利的不斷擴大和現金轉換的不斷改善。我們信守承諾，言出必行，為未來幾年的持續成長奠定了基礎。

Fiscal year 2024 is already off to a strong start. We continue to build on our robust foundation as evidenced by the impressive growth of our current cloud backlog and continued momentum of our cloud revenue. In addition, non-IFRS operating profit showed significant double-digit growth even when including stock-based compensation. Our key priorities, including our investments in business AI, demonstrate our commitment to leading the charge in this new era of business transformation and exemplify our relentless drive for growth and operational excellence.

2024 財年已經取得了良好的開端。我們將繼續鞏固我們的基礎，這從我們當前雲積壓訂單的令人印象深刻的成長和雲端收入的持續成長中可以看出。此外，即使包含股票薪酬，非國際財務報告準則下的營業利潤也顯示出顯著的兩位數成長。我們的重點工作，包括對商業人工智慧的投資，顯示了我們致力於引領新商業轉型時代的決心，也體現了我們對成長和卓越營運的不懈追求。

The company-wide transformation program we initiated in January is progressing well, focusing on enhancing our operational efficiencies and setting the stage for improved financial performance. We're also deploying our own AI solutions internally as a powerful lever to drive productivity.

我們於一月份啟動的全公司轉型計畫進展順利，重點是提高我們的營運效率並為改善財務表現奠定基礎。我們也正在內部部署自己的人工智慧解決方案，作為提高生產力的強大槓桿。

Digital transformation is imperative in today's evolving landscape, and SAP remains the partner of choice. Building on our strategic commitment, the introduction of the Cloud ERP Suite is a pivotal step in aligning our product offering more closely with our core ERP and integrated business solutions. All of this has helped foster the trend towards larger cloud transactions, with deals greater than EUR 5 million in volume contributing more than half of our cloud order entry. This is remarkable for the first quarter of the year.

在當今不斷發展的環境中，數位轉型勢在必行，而 SAP 仍然是您的首選合作夥伴。基於我們的策略承諾，雲端 ERP 套件的推出是使我們的產品與核心 ERP 和整合業務解決方案更加緊密地結合的關鍵一步。所有這些都有助於促進雲端交易規模擴大的趨勢，其中金額超過 500 萬歐元的交易占我們雲端訂單量的一半以上。這對於今年第一季來說，是非凡的成績。

I will now go into further details on our financial highlights.

現在我將進一步詳細介紹我們的財務亮點。

Current cloud backlog was EUR 14.2 billion, accelerating its impressive growth to 28%, solidly keeping us on the trajectory towards our fiscal year 2024 outlook and fiscal year 2025 top line ambition.

目前雲積壓訂單為 142 億歐元，其驚人的增幅加速至 28%，堅定地使我們朝著 2024 財年的展望和 2025 財年的營收目標前進。

Cloud revenue grew 25% year-on-year, mainly driven by the continued strength of our Cloud ERP Suite. It grew by 32% in Q1, its ninth consecutive quarter of growth in the 30s. This sustained momentum underscores our expectations that Cloud ERP Suite will continue to capture a growing share of our cloud business, thanks to its critical role in our customers' digital transformation journeys. It actually already represents 84% of our combined PaaS/SaaS revenue, up 3 percentage points as compared to the prior year's quarter.

雲端營收年增 25％，主要得益於我們雲端 ERP 套件的持續強勁成長。第一季成長 32%，這是連續第九個季度實現 30% 以上的成長。這種持續的勢頭強調了我們的預期，即由於雲端 ERP 套件在我們客戶的數位轉型歷程中發揮關鍵作用，它將繼續在我們的雲端業務中佔據越來越大的份額。實際上它已經占到我們綜合 PaaS/SaaS 收入的 84%，比去年同期成長了 3 個百分點。

Software license revenue saw a decrease of 25%, so the dilution of its share of the total revenue from 9% to 5% in only 1 year impressively illustrates the continued secular shift in market preference towards cloud-based solutions in the enterprise.

軟體授權收入下降了 25%，因此其在總收入中的份額在短短一年內從 9% 降至 5%，令人印象深刻地說明了市場偏好繼續向企業基於雲端的解決方案轉變。

Finally, total revenue surpassed EUR 8 billion in Q1, up 9% year-over-year, showing unabated growth momentum.

最終，第一季總收入超過80億歐元，較去年同期成長9%，顯示出不減的成長動能。

Now let's take a brief look at our regional performance. In the first quarter, SAP's cloud revenue performance was particularly strong in APJ and EMEA and robust in the Americas region. Brazil, Canada, Germany, Italy, the United Arab Emirates, India and South Korea had outstanding performances in cloud revenue growth, while the U.S., Japan and Spain were particularly strong.

現在讓我們簡單看一下我們的區域表現。第一季度，SAP 的雲端營收表現在 APJ 地區、EMEA 地區尤為強勁，在美洲地區也表現強勁。巴西、加拿大、德國、義大利、阿聯酋、印度和韓國在雲端收入成長方面表現突出，而美國、日本和西班牙的表現尤其強勁。

Now let's move further down the income statement. Our cloud gross profit grew by 28% driven by cloud revenue growth and further efficiency gains. This resulted in cloud gross margin improving from the year-ago period, expanding by 1.8 percentage points to 72.5%.

現在讓我們進一步來看看損益表。在雲端收入成長和效率進一步提升的推動下，我們的雲毛利潤成長了 28%。這使得雲毛利率較去年同期提高，擴大了1.8個百分點，達到72.5%。

IFRS operating profit in the first quarter was impacted by EUR 2.2 billion of restructuring provisions associated with the transformation program initiated in January. This resulted in an IFRS operating loss of EUR 787 million. This accrual represents the vast majority of the total restructuring expenses we currently expect to incur in the context of the program. The amount is closer to the upper end of what we had anticipated initially, which is primarily driven by the strong share price performance in the first quarter and the higher-than-expected acceptance rate of the early retirement program in the U.S. We continue to be in the very early stages of executing the program, which we expect to be concluded by the beginning of 2025, and projected expenses are based on preliminary assumptions. We expect visibility to further improve over the course of the second quarter and plan to provide an update once the related measures are fully assessed.

第一季的 IFRS 營業利潤受到 1 月啟動的轉型計畫相關的 22 億歐元重組準備金的影響。這導致 IFRS 營業虧損達 7.87 億歐元。該應計費用占我們目前預計將在該計劃下產生的重組費用總額的絕大部分。該金額更接近我們最初預期的上限，這主要得益於第一季強勁的股價表現以及美國提前退休計劃的接受率高於預期。我們預計第二季的可見度將進一步改善，並計劃在相關措施得到全面評估後提供最新資訊。

Finally, non-IFRS operating profit grew by 19%, evidencing our sustained push towards enhanced profitability. The underlying profit expansion was tempered by EUR 135 million increased in stock-based compensation expense, mainly as a result of a very strong appreciation of our share price in the first quarter. Q1 2024 was actually the quarter with the highest increase in SAP's market capitalization ever.

最後，非國際財務報告準則下的營業利潤成長了 19%，證明了我們持續努力提高獲利能力。股票薪資費用增加1.35億歐元，抵消了基礎利潤的成長，這主要由於第一季我們的股價大幅上漲。 2024 年第一季實際上是 SAP 市值有史以來增幅最高的季度。

As we settled, for the last time, the entire tranche of our obligations under the 2021 Move SAP Program in Q1, fully in cash, we expect a significantly lower sensitivity in the coming quarter as we move to equity sale. Therefore, the non-IFRS operating profit outlook is reaffirmed for the full year 2024 despite this headwind. Non-IFRS earnings per share in the quarter increased 8% to $0.81. The IFRS effective tax rate for Q1 was 16% and the non-IFRS tax rate was 32.4%.

由於我們在第一季最後一次以現金結算了 2021 年 Move SAP 計劃下的全部債務，我們預計，隨著我們轉向股權出售，下一季的敏感度將顯著降低。因此，儘管面臨這種不利因素，但我們仍重申 2024 年全年非國際財務報告準則下的營業利潤前景。本季非國際財務報告準則每股收益成長 8% 至 0.81 美元。第一季的IFRS有效稅率為16%，非IFRS稅率為32.4%。

Now on to our cash generation. Free cash flow for Q1 came in at EUR 2.49 billion, up 28%, again, putting us on the right trajectory to maintain our full year outlook. There was only a minor cash flow impact from our transformation program in the first quarter.

現在來談談我們的現金產生。第一季的自由現金流為 24.9 億歐元，成長 28%，這再次使我們走上了維持全年前景的正確軌道。我們的第一季的轉型計劃僅對現金流產生了很小的影響。

So we reiterate our 2024 outlook on all parameters. For the detailed outlook, please refer to our quarterly statement published earlier today on our Investor Relations website.

因此，我們重申對 2024 年所有參數的展望。有關詳細的展望，請參閱我們今天早些時候在投資者關係網站上發布的季度聲明。

In summary, Q1 marks a strong start to the year highlighted by continued growth in both our current cloud backlog and Cloud ERP Suite. Business traction, combined with focus on execution, is positioning us well to the objectives for the remainder of the year.

總而言之，第一季標誌著今年的一個強勁開局，突出表現在我們當前的雲積壓和雲端 ERP 套件的持續成長。業務的牽引力，加上對執行的關注，使我們有望實現今年剩餘時間的目標。

Before we open it up to Q&A, I would like to say that we are very much looking forward to welcoming you to our financial analyst conference in June. As already mentioned by Anthony, it will take place in conjunction with Sapphire in Orlando, and the team and I are very much looking forward to meeting you there in person.

在我們開始問答環節之前，我想說，我們非常期待您參加我們六月的財務分析師會議。正如安東尼已經提到的，它將與奧蘭多的 Sapphire 同時舉行，我和團隊非常期待在那裡與您親自見面。

So thank you, and we'll now be happy to take your questions.

謝謝您，我們現在很樂意回答您的問題。

Operator, please open the line.

接線員，請接通線路。

(Operator Instructions) The first question is from the line of Toby Ogg with JPMorgan Cazenove Limited.

（操作員指示）第一個問題來自摩根大通卡贊諾夫有限公司的托比奧格。

Perhaps just sort of taking a step back on the margin side, clearly, there's a big step-up in the margins embedded in your EUR 10 billion EBIT guidance for 2025. And I know, Dominik, you talked at Q4 about the potential for continued margin expansion beyond 2025, and I know that the Rule of 40 is something that's been discussed in the market when looking at the software ecosystem. Could you perhaps just give us a sense of how you're thinking about the Rule of 40 and whether this is something you think SAP could achieve?

或許只是在利潤方面退後一步，顯然，您在 2025 年 100 億歐元息稅前利潤指引中嵌入了利潤率的大幅提升。您能否告訴我們您對「40 規則」的看法，以及您認為 SAP 是否可以實現這一目標？

Well, I mean, the Rule of 40 is simply an observation if we do benchmarking with our core competitors and we look at the median or the average, it doesn't actually matter, you see that that's what they trade at. The stats show us that for 2023, we are at 25%, if you combine our free cash flow to sales margin plus the growth we achieved in that year. And if you look at the midpoint of the ambition 2025, basically, you will see that would kind of bring us a little bit more than half the way towards that.

嗯，我的意思是，40 規則只是一種觀察結果，如果我們與核心競爭對手進行對標，並且看中位數或平均數，這實際上並不重要，你會發現這就是他們的交易價格。統計數據顯示，到 2023 年，如果將我們的自由現金流與銷售利潤率加上我們當年實現的成長，我們的成長率將達到 25%。如果你看一下 2025 年目標的中點，基本上，你會發現這將使我們距離目標目標還有一半多一點的距離。

Now the rest is very much dependent on how much can we accelerate revenue growth. This is why we highlight again and again the revenue mix improving. I highlighted 84% of the SaaS/PaaS revenue is already in Cloud ERP Suite, which is kind of running at 30%-plus growth rates on a year-on-year basis. We also highlight that the strongest headwind, the decline in the software business, is becoming smaller and smaller. It's now down to 5% of the revenues. So the fundamentals are actually there to support strong revenue growth. And then, of course, there's also some improvement in margins. We said that we want to clearly scale the cost base not at the same growth rate as revenues. But again, we look at benchmarking and see that our core competitors achieve between 80% to 90% growth of the cost base versus the revenue base. That's an indication of the kind of ballpark we aim at with our transformation program. And now then you can basically play the math rolling these numbers forward to see how long it will take us to come to that Rule of 40 which, by the way, we have no idea where it will be 5, 10 years down the road because, of course, our competitors will also not stand still. But that's the way I can describe it.

現在剩下的很大程度取決於我們能夠將收入成長加快多少。這就是我們一再強調收入組合改善的原因。我強調過，84% 的 SaaS/PaaS 收入已經來自雲端 ERP Suite，其年增長率達到 30% 以上。我們也強調，最強勁的逆風——軟體業務的下滑，正在變得越來越小。現在已降至收入的5%。因此，基本面實際上可以支持強勁的收入成長。當然，利潤率也有所提高。我們說過，我們希望明確地擴大成本基礎，而不是按照與收入相同的成長率來擴大。但再次，我們透過基準測試發現，我們的核心競爭對手的成本基礎相對於營收基礎成長了 80% 到 90%。這顯示了我們的轉型計畫所瞄準的目標類型。現在，你基本上可以進行數學運算，將這些數字向前滾動，看看我們需要多長時間才能達到 40 規則，順便說一句，我們不知道 5 年、10 年後它會達到什麼程度，因為當然，我們的競爭對手也不會停滯不前。但這就是我所能描述的方式。

So don't take it as a guidance that we can get there at any specific given quarter. But obviously, we have to acknowledge that this is where the market is running, and this is a little bit of the north star we have on top of our head. And I think with the measures we are taking now to really, a, kind of cover more than half of the gap we currently have; and then b, to accelerate growth and also to grow costs more slowly than revenues, we have the ingredients to gradually move towards the target.

因此，不要將其視為我們可以在特定季度實現這一目標的指導。但顯然，我們必須承認這就是市場的運作方式，這就是我們頭頂上的北極星。我認為我們現在採取的措施確實可以彌補目前一半以上的缺口；然後 b，加速成長並且使成本成長速度低於收入成長速度，我們有逐步實現目標的因素。

The next question comes from the line of Adam Wood with Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的亞當伍德。

I wanted to sort of start on the AI side, if you could help us a little bit around how that's been monetized today. Is this more that customers are accelerating the shift to S/4 because they want to take advantage of the tools that will be available there in the future? Or actually, are you starting to monetize already that business AI feature and charging directly for that?

我想從人工智慧方面開始，如果你能幫助我們了解目前人工智慧是如何實現貨幣化的。這是否意味著客戶正在加速向 S/4 的轉變，因為他們想利用未來可用的工具？或者實際上，您是否已經開始將商業 AI 功能貨幣化並直接收費？

And then maybe just secondly, you talked about EUR 7 of custom code versus EUR 1 of software, obviously, a massive opportunity if you could capture more of that. How realistic is it that you can cover enough of the custom areas to be able to capture that? Or is this more monetization of the platform as companies and partners develop on the BTP?

其次，您談到了自訂程式碼的價格為 7 歐元，而軟體的價格僅為 1 歐元，顯然，如果您能夠抓住更多機會，這將是一個巨大的機會。您是否能夠覆蓋足夠多的自訂區域以實現這一點？或者說，隨著公司和合作夥伴在 BTP 上發展，平台是否會進一步貨幣化？

Thanks a lot for the questions, Adam. On AI, first, when you look at the commercial model, we actually included some standard AI use cases for automation of repetitive tasks in our base packages. On top, of course, now we are delivering more and more gen AI models, which also require high computing power. And I talked about Joule. And Joule will cover the most used transactions of our end users by the end of the year. So no matter if you do work on travel, on finance, on supply chain, on procurement, it will all happen via human language. And that is included in our premium AI offering, which is consumption-based. We package it, some AI units already in our RISE and GROW packages, and that is actually running extremely well. And on top of course, you can also, of course, consume business AI by, of course, buying consumption packages of our offerings.

非常感謝您提出這些問題，亞當。關於人工智慧，首先，當你看商業模式時，我們實際上在基礎包中包含了一些用於重複任務自動化的標準人工智慧用例。當然，最重要的是，我們現在正在提供越來越多的新一代人工智慧模型，這也需要很高的運算能力。我談到了焦耳。到今年年底，Joule 將覆蓋我們最終用戶最常用的交易。因此，無論您從事旅遊、金融、供應鏈或採購工作，一切都將透過人類語言進行。這包含在我們的基於消費的高級 AI 產品中。我們對其進行了打包，一些 AI 單元已經在我們的 RISE 和 GROW 包中，並且實際上運行得非常好。當然，您也可以透過購買我們產品的消費包來消費商業 AI。

And with regard to the adoption, I mean, the way how it works, Adam, is, of course, Joule will become the de facto user experience front end for our end users. Second, when you are then talking to the customers, what we're already doing, they will use our gen AI scenarios for asset management, for manufacturing, for shop floor automation, for more personalization of their offerings, of their services, of their products via our configurator, or they also build custom AI use cases. Why do you do that with our gen AI hub on BTP? Because you get the native integration into the data. We can also pretrain some modules. You have integration into the security and authorization, which matters in the business world. And these are all the benefits, the value, why our partners and customers already start to develop new AI use cases custom for their individual business.

關於採用，我的意思是，它的工作方式，Adam，當然，Joule 將成為我們最終用戶的事實上的用戶體驗前端。其次，當你與客戶交談時，我們已經在做這些事情，他們將使用我們的新一代人工智慧場景進行資產管理、製造、車間自動化，透過我們的配置器對他們的產品和服務進行更個人化的改造，或者他們也可以建立客製化的人工智慧用例。為什麼要對我們在 BTP 上的 gen AI 中心這樣做？因為您獲得了本機整合的資料。我們還可以預先訓練一些模組。您已經融入了安全性和授權，這對商業世界來說至關重要。這些都是好處和價值，也是為什麼我們的合作夥伴和客戶已經開始為他們各自的業務開發客製化的新型 AI 用例的原因。

With regard to your second question, I guess here, it's also very important to mention that, when you look at the momentum of our top line, I mean, it's evident that we are not only scaling our business with S/4HANA finance. I mean, I'm sitting in many of these RISE transformations, and what we are often doing is we start with finance, then we go higher to retire, we go into finance and payroll. We talk about total workforce within cloud and SuccessFactors. So we are closing mega deals, but we are doing it step by step, in a modular way, given our architecture, which ensures fast time to value.

關於你的第二個問題，我想在這裡，同樣值得一提的是，當你看到我們的營收成長勢頭時，很明顯我們不僅在利用 S/4HANA 金融擴展業務。我的意思是，我參與了許多 RISE 轉型，我們經常做的是從財務開始，然後逐步上升到退休階段，最後進入財務和薪資領域。我們討論雲端中的總勞動力和 SuccessFactors。因此，我們正在完成大型交易，但我們正在逐步、以模組化的方式進行，考慮到我們的架構，這可以確保快速實現價值。

And then you scan the custom code. And the custom code is actually sometimes 7x more than standard code, ERP standard code on-prem. And then you are looking into what kind of extensions have been built. For example, in oil and gas, we brought now the 10 largest oil and gas companies of the world together. We talk about trade promotion. We talk about product revenue accounting. All the extensions, which make a ton of sense to not custom-code it anymore ERP, to sit always on the latest release but then developing it side by side, because you need a native integration into the data module of SAP. And of course, the security concept plays in there as well.

然後掃描自訂代碼。而自訂程式碼實際上有時比標準代碼、ERP 標準代碼多 7 倍。然後您要研究已建置了哪些類型的擴充功能。例如，在石油和天然氣領域，我們現在將世界上最大的 10 家石油和天然氣公司聯合起來。我們談論貿易促進。我們討論產品收入會計。所有的擴充功能都非常有意義，不再對 ERP 進行自訂編碼，始終停留在最新版本上，然後並行開發，因為您需要與 SAP 的資料模組進行本機整合。當然，安全概念也在其中發揮作用。

And indeed, Adam, this is a massive uptick, what we have, and platform consumption. And customers, partners can actually then also develop their own IP, can offer it in our app store. And then again, as I just said, for oil and gas, same will happen for retail for manufacturing, can cross-sell it across the industry. And with that, I guess, you also feel that this is also a massive transformation for our ecosystem. No custom coding, but rather building, developing software on the platform and building a massive ecosystem around our cloud ERP.

確實，亞當，這是我們所擁有的以及平台消費的巨大增長。客戶、合作夥伴實際上也可以開發自己的 IP，並將其提供在我們的應用程式商店中。正如我剛才所說，對於石油和天然氣而言，同樣的情況也會發生在零售和製造業，可以在整個行業中進行交叉銷售。我想，您也會感覺到，這對我們的生態系統來說也是一個巨大的轉變。沒有自訂編碼，而是在平台上建立、開發軟體並圍繞我們的雲端 ERP 建立龐大的生態系統。

The next question is from the line of Johannes Schaller with Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的約翰內斯·沙勒 (Johannes Schaller)。

Christian, you mentioned you've seen already a kind of noticeable impact on CCB from AI. And obviously, last year, I think the CCB's soft target was in the mid-20s. Now it looks like we're more at 27%, 28%. I mean, tough to quantify the impact, I guess. But is the delta, is that largely AI-driven? And also should we look at the kind of high 20s more sustainable growth run rate for CCB now going forward?

克里斯蒂安，您提到您已經看到人工智慧對 CCB 產生了明顯的影響。顯然，我認為去年 CCB 的軟目標在 20% 左右。現在看來，這比例更像是 27%、28%。我的意思是，我想很難量化其影響。但這種差異主要是由人工智慧驅動的嗎？我們是否也應該關注中國建設銀行未來 20% 以上的永續成長率？

I mean on business, to answer your first question, I mean, Scott is also on the line, please comment, Scott. I mean, I have no C-level conversation anymore without talking about business AI and the impact on the business. Just last week, I had a conversation about production downs in manufacturing and how our gen AI hub can help to get the machines faster up and running again, which actually would result in hundreds of millions of efficiency gains for this large chemical company. In these conversations, are these AI use cases already live and fully adopted? No, they are now in the making. But with that comes more and more consumption, and we're going to monetize that in the upcoming quarters and in the upcoming years. And we have many more of that.

我指的是業務方面，回答你的第一個問題，我的意思是，斯科特也在線，請評論，斯科特。我的意思是，如果不談論商業 AI 及其對業務的影響，我就不會再進行 C 級對話。就在上週，我討論了製造業的生產下滑以及我們的人工智慧中心如何幫助機器更快地重新啟動和運行，這實際上將為這家大型化學公司帶來數億美元的效率提升。在這些對話中，這些 AI 用例是否已經上線並充分採用？不，它們現在正在製作中。但隨之而來的是越來越多的消費，我們將在未來幾季和未來幾年將其貨幣化。我們還有更多這樣的事。

And of course, when you are now using SuccessFactors, Concur, everyone is looking for more efficiencies, for a new way of working, so Joule will become the de facto standard. And with that, we're going to see an uptick of all of our premium packages now we are building for each line of business and, of course, also for RISE and GROW.

當然，當您現在使用 SuccessFactors、Concur 時，每個人都在尋求更高的效率和新的工作方式，因此 Joule 將成為事實上的標準。同時，我們將看到我們為每條業務線以及 RISE 和 GROW 構建的所有高級套餐均會有所提升。

With regard to CCB, I mean we are very confident. When we look at the pipeline for the year, we see healthy renewals. We see a good pipeline to close business in the upcoming quarter. Sapphire is around the corner where we also make some exciting announcements around data and, of course, AI. So we are very confident also when it comes to CCB for the remainder of the year.

對於建行，我們非常有信心。當我們回顧今年的管道時，我們看到了健康的更新。我們看到了下個季度完成業務的良好管道。 Sapphire 即將到來，我們也會就數據和人工智慧發布一些令人興奮的公告。因此，我們對今年剩餘時間內 CCB 的業績也非常有信心。

But Scott, Dominik, please feel free to comment as well.

但是史考特、多明尼克，也請隨意發表評論。

Yes. I'll probably give two additional data points, just to add on what you described, Christian. So first, as you saw in the update, the Cloud ERP Suite growth, and that covers the end-to-end capability for an enterprise is growing and it continues to grow strongly, ninth quarter in a row, 30%-plus. But the reasons why are evolving. There is no doubt companies want best-in-class processes, be able to automate their enterprise, building efficiency. But what they're clearly now seeing is not all data is equal.

是的。我可能會提供兩個額外的數據點，只是為了補充你所描述的內容，克里斯蒂安。首先，正如您在更新中看到的，雲端 ERP 套件的成長，涵蓋企業的端到端功能，並且它連續第九個季度繼續強勁增長，增長率超過 30％。但原因卻在不斷演變。毫無疑問，公司希望擁有一流的流程，能夠實現企業自動化，提高效率。但他們現在清楚地看到並非所有數據都是平等的。

Not all data in the enterprise is equal. The data that sits in the SAP platforms is the most valuable data that they have. And when they think forward and they look at our innovation road map with business AI and they see the capabilities that we bring inside the core, not only will they get the benefit out of the generative AI capabilities that we do in generative AI hubs, but then the data that is the most valuable to them has got the integrity. It has got the context. It's got the metadata. It's got the semantics. And then you can get the innovation insights.

企業中並非所有數據都是平等的。 SAP 平台上的數據是他們擁有的最有價值的數據。當他們展望未來，看到我們商業人工智慧的創新路線圖，看到我們在核心中帶來的能力時，他們不僅可以從我們在生成人工智慧中心所做的生成人工智慧功能中獲益，而且對他們來說最有價值的數據也獲得了完整性。它已獲得上下文。它有元數據。它具有語義。然後你就可以獲得創新見解。

And a lot of the growth that we're now seeing, and to Christian's point, there is not a single conversation that SAP is having with customers that is not linking best-in-class innovation, underlying valuable data and the generative AI capabilities in that combination. And that's why they are excited about the road map, but it's already stimulating the growth.

正如 Christian 所說，我們現在看到的許多成長是，SAP 與客戶進行的每一次對話都結合了一流的創新、底層有價值的數據和生成性 AI 能力。這就是他們對路線圖感到興奮的原因，但它已經刺激了成長。

And to give you one additional data point, our cloud pipeline growth, so the pipeline that we generated in first quarter was the best on record. We continue to see strong demand not only in what we booked and what we're generating in the cloud backlog but also the interest from the market, and a lot of that is stimulated by our business AI.

再給你一個額外的數據點，我們的雲端管道成長，所以我們在第一季產生的管道是有史以來最好的。我們繼續看到強勁的需求，這不僅體現在我們的訂單和雲端積壓訂單中，也體現在市場的興趣中，而其中許多都是受到我們商業人工智慧的刺激。

Maybe just to complement that view on the kind of dynamics in the business to the financial model, you'll note that the biggest single most important dilutive factor, so to speak, from CCB down to cloud revenue growth with a certain time lag is actually the transactional business. This is now kind of stagnating. It's actually very, very slightly even decreasing. The macro isn't great. There's also these changes in the kind of supply network happening. And we think that over time, that will become smaller in the mix.

也許只是為了補充關於業務動態對財務模型的看法，你會注意到，從 CCB 到雲端收入成長（存在一定的時間滯後）最大的、最重要的稀釋因素實際上是交易業務。現在情況有點停滯不前。事實上，它甚至還在輕微下降。宏不太好。供應網路類型也在改變。我們認為，隨著時間的推移，這一比例會變得越來越小。

By the way, that dilutive effect is also embarked in our Cloud ERP Suite growth numbers. So we show that 30%, 32% growth despite that headwind. But that's the biggest bridge item between CCB and cloud revenues. Now if you look at what we've kind of indicated in our ambition '25, you see that with 28% CCB, you don't need to see much acceleration to basically get there because you take off the dilutive effect on 5% of the revenue is basically stagnating, and we do believe that in '25 there will be some acceleration there. So it's what we really take to get to our 2025 ambition. So anything beyond that would be upside in summary.

順便說一句，這種稀釋效應也反映在我們的雲端 ERP Suite 成長數字中。因此，儘管面臨阻力，我們仍實現了 30% 至 32% 的成長率。但這是建行和雲端收入之間最大的橋樑計畫。現在，如果你看看我們在 2025 年的目標中所表明的內容，你會發現，有了 28% 的 CCB，你不需要看到太多的加速就可以達到目標，因為如果你去掉 5% 收入的稀釋效應，它基本上是停滯的，我們確實相信，在 2025 年會有一些加速。所以這才是我們實現 2025 年目標真正需要做的。因此，總而言之，除此之外的任何事情都是有利的。

And last, but not least, when you look at the current cloud backlog, we released ACV numbers at the year and we are going to talk about TCV. But customers are also trending more and more to also now sign longer-term commitments with [grams], which are also then going over 5 years. And of course, there's enough in the books also when it comes to CCB, TCV. And there, the growth is even higher than in the ACV.

最後，但並非最不重要的一點是，當您查看當前的雲積壓時，我們發布了今年的 ACV 數字，我們將討論 TCV。但現在越來越多的客戶傾向於與 [grams] 簽署長期承諾，這些承諾的期限也將超過 5 年。當然，書中也有足夠的關於 CCB、TCV 的內容。那裡的成長率甚至比 ACV 還要高。

The next question is from the line of Frederic Boulan with Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Frederic Boulan。

Two quick questions, please. So first of all, coming back to the CCB, so you mentioned the CCB being held by the demand for AI. Can you discuss a bit more specifically what's driving that sequential acceleration, any specific modules or areas where you see demand? Or is it just the momentum in S/4?

請問兩個快速問題。首先，回到 CCB 的問題，您提到 CCB 受到 AI 需求的影響。您能否更具體地討論一下推動這種連續加速的因素以及您看到需求的特定模組或領域？或者這只是 S/4 中的勢頭？

And then second question on the cloud migration, if you can give us an update on your current ERP landscape, potential customers that have migrated to cloud. And what are you seeing in terms of momentum? Are we seeing some of the largest customers continuing to migrate? So any update on that would be great.

第二個問題是關於雲端遷移的，您能否向我們介紹您目前的 ERP 狀況，以及已經遷移到雲端的潛在客戶。您從勢頭方面看到了什麼？我們是否看到一些最大的客戶正在繼續遷移？因此，任何有關此的更新都很好。

Yes. Happy to take that question. And Scott, please feel free to comment as well. I mean, first, your second question is also actually related to your question number one. What we are seeing now with business AI is actually that a lot of customers who probably plan their migration start date for S/4 end of this year or next year, that they actually now want to move faster because they see the capabilities with SAP business AI, as I mentioned, on asset management, on just automating many, many workflows in their company, but also when it comes to analytics, especially in the supply chain planning, which is an extremely important part of many companies right now.

是的。很高興回答這個問題。斯科特，也請隨意發表評論。我的意思是，首先，你的第二個問題其實也與你的第一個問題有關。我們現在在商業 AI 方面看到的是，許多客戶可能計劃在今年年底或明年的 S/4 版開始遷移，但他們現在實際上想要加快步伐，因為他們看到了 SAP 商業 AI 在資產管理方面的能力，正如我提到的，不僅可以自動化公司中的許多工作流程，還可以自動化鏈分析，特別是在供應方面許多公司極其重要的一部分。

And that actually also has driven the sequential increase. But this is not only business AI standalone. Business AI helps us to sell more supply chain, to sell more HR, to sell more finance, and then last, but not least, which makes me so confident also about the growth potential for 2025 plus, I mean when you start with finance and you talk about your business model. You talk immediately about the billing, about the commissions. Then you're actually moving into the supply chain. And when you're doing demand and supply, you're also then talking about design to operate. And now we are seeing a huge uptick in our manufacturing cloud business. And then you're going module-by-module because, when you talk to these customers, they see more and more that the best of fleet really doesn't work when you have to stitch together manually data modules or the identity or the authorization.

這實際上也推動了連續的成長。但這不僅僅是獨立的商業 AI。商業人工智慧幫助我們銷售更多的供應鏈、更多的人力資源、更多的財務，最後但並非最不重要的一點是，這也讓我對 2025 年以後的成長潛力充滿信心，我的意思是當你從財務開始談論你的商業模式時。您立即談論賬單和佣金。那你其實就進入了供應鏈。當你研究需求和供應時，你也在談論操作設計。現在我們看到製造雲業務大幅成長。然後，您要逐個模組地進行操作，因為當您與這些客戶交談時，他們會越來越發現，當您必須手動將資料模組或身分或授權拼接在一起時，最好的車隊實際上不起作用。

So what we are seeing in many RISE customers over time that there's a lot of cross-sell potential and that the first phase is only about landing and then start provisioning, start to redesign the process landscape, and then we go. And we already talked about the custom code and the ecosystem. We are more and more building on BTP to also remove the custom code and move to the Clean Core.

因此，隨著時間的推移，我們在許多 RISE 客戶身上看到，存在著很大的交叉銷售潛力，第一階段只是落地，然後開始配置，開始重新設計流程格局，然後我們就可以開始了。我們已經討論了自訂程式碼和生態系統。我們越來越多地在 BTP 的基礎上刪除自訂程式碼並轉向 Clean Core。

And yes, I'll just add one additional comment to what Christian described, and that is, the growth on the CCB is consistent around the world. And so this is not a particular region, across all regions, we saw healthy growth. Obviously, APJ and parts of Europe and Greater China were strong, but across the world.

是的，我只想對克里斯蒂安所描述的內容補充一點，那就是 CCB 的成長在世界各地是一致的。所以這不是一個特定的地區，在所有地區，我們都看到了健康的成長。顯然，亞太及日本地區、歐洲部分地區和大中華區表現強勁，但全球範圍亦是如此。

And secondly, it is across that portfolio. People aren't doing a move only. They're doing a move and transform, and that requires those extended capabilities. And if I just link it back, if you've already got the data architecture of SAP, and it's the most valuable thing. You can do so many more things not only AI related but also innovation related that you can do in your business. So it definitely means our short-, mid- and long-term growth, it's definitely got confidence based on the capabilities, the innovation road map, but also the buying signals that we see from the market here and now.

其次，它涉及整個投資組合。人們並不是只做一個動作。他們正在進行移動和轉變，這需要那些擴展的功能。如果我將其連結回來，如果您已經獲得了 SAP 的資料架構，那麼它是最有價值的東西。您可以做很多事情，不僅包括與 AI 相關的事情，還包括您可以在業務中做更多與創新相關的事情。因此，這肯定意味著我們的短期、中期和長期成長，我們對能力、創新路線圖以及我們現在從市場看到的購買訊號充滿信心。

The next question is from the line of Jackson Ader with KeyBanc Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自 KeyBanc Capital Markets 的 Jackson Ader。

Just one on the large deals strength. I think Christian, or maybe Dominik, you called it out in terms of the $5 million-plus deals driving a lot of strength in Cloud ERP. Just curious, I mean I assume the preponderance of that is migration or RISE with SAP, but are you seeing any large deals for net new customers or net new lands that are also driving some of the CCB growth?

僅就大型交易實力而言。我認為克里斯蒂安，或者可能是多明尼克，你提到了 500 多萬美元的交易極大地推動了雲端 ERP 的發展。只是好奇，我的意思是我假設其中的大部分是遷移或與 SAP 一起崛起，但您是否看到任何針對淨新客戶或淨新土地的大型交易也推動了 CCB 的成長？

Scott, do you want to go first?

史考特，你想先走嗎？

Let me kick it off and then, Christian, please add in. So I think we've got to be clear, when customers decide to move to RISE, they're not just doing a move of their current environment and replicating the same capability; in fact, far from it. They're trying to transform, operationally process all of their data, all of their capability to serve now and into the future. They're setting their business up. And so when they look at these, which is why, to answer your question, the larger deals are because they look at a multiyear road map of capability, transitioning from an old state, including non-SAP. So what we see is many situations where our customers will say, "Okay, I might be using SAP for core finance, but I'll then extend, i.e., ERP suite, the other capabilities and then we're able to have a competitive displacement." That happens on a regular.

讓我先開始，然後，克里斯蒂安，請補充。 所以我認為我們必須清楚，當客戶決定轉向 RISE 時，他們不僅僅是轉移他們當前的環境並複製相同的功能；事實上，遠非如此。他們正在嘗試轉變和操作處理所有數據以及所有服務能力，以便現在和將來提供服務。他們正在創業。因此，當他們考慮這些時，這就是為什麼，回答你的問題，更大的交易是因為他們考慮了多年的能力路線圖，從舊狀態過渡，包括非 SAP。因此，我們看到很多情況是客戶會說，“好吧，我可能會使用 SAP 進行核心財務，但我會擴展 ERP 套件等其他功能，這樣我們就能實現有競爭力的取代。”這種事情經常發生。

So whether you look at the SKFs, the Curtiss-Wrights and the others that Christian mentioned in his opening, and then you see the chart of all the other RISE customers, they're nearly always bringing the BTP, which is displacing other technology platforms and using that as the innovation platform. They're using other extension, whether it be our Ariba, Concur, SuccessFactors, to be able to provide its people spend. So yes, we are seeing that, but then the compelling event is obviously an initial move and then a multiyear journey when they're on a large deal, which makes up a big portion of the Q1 results that you see.

因此，無論您看 SKF、Curtiss-Wrights 還是 Christian 在開幕式上提到的其他公司，然後再看所有其他 RISE 客戶的圖表，他們幾乎總是帶來 BTP，它正在取代其他技術平台並將其用作創新平台。他們正在使用其他擴展，無論是我們的 Ariba、Concur 還是 SuccessFactors，以便能夠為其員工提供支出。是的，我們看到了這一點，但引人注目的事件顯然是一個初步舉措，然後是當他們進行一筆大交易時的一個多年的旅程，這佔了你所看到的第一季度業績的很大一部分。

Maybe to shed some more light on the numbers. I mean, what you also see with RISE, it's not that we are landing, of course, and converting maintenance with a factor of 2 to 3x to the cloud, what we are then seeing after is that next on the land-and-expand, customers who want to replace their HCM module. And this is then oftentimes a double-digit success factor, employee central deal. Needless to say, payroll is a massive business, which we are also more and more now shifting to the cloud. So there are a lot of large cross-sell opportunity after we landed with RISE.

也許可以讓這些數字更清晰一些。我的意思是，您在 RISE 中也看到的，當然並不是我們正在登陸，而是將維護以 2 到 3 倍的比例轉換為雲端，接下來我們看到的是登陸和擴展的下一步，客戶想要更換他們的 HCM 模組。這通常是一個兩位數的成功因素，員工中心交易。毋庸置疑，薪資單是一項龐大的業務，我們現在也越來越多地將其轉移到雲端。因此，我們與 RISE 合作後，有許多交叉銷售機會。

On BTP, I mentioned 1 customer. Actually, for BTP, we also oftentimes see now double-digit ACV deals with our large customers as they are not only using the platform for integration but also for the extension for the Clean Core Journey. And then last, but not least, when it comes to the volume business growth, that's rightfully driven by our ecosystem, but our resellers. But oftentimes, you'll start with a $500,000 deal with some users, it scales. And then you start finance, HR. And then you expand into manufacturing cloud or into billing, et cetera. And in the meantime, you see that customers are growing from $500,000 to $2 million to $3 million ACV. And of course, this is not the end, but you see that this massive volume business will also further contribute to the growth. After landing and signing deals, net new customers will also become way bigger over time.

在 BTP 上，我提到了 1 位客戶。實際上，對於 BTP，我們現在也經常看到與大客戶達成兩位數的 ACV 交易，因為他們不僅使用該平台進行集成，還將其用於 Clean Core Journey 的擴展。最後，但並非最不重要的一點是，當談到業務量成長時，這當然是由我們的生態系統以及我們的經銷商推動的。但很多時候，你會從與一些用戶達成的 50 萬美元的交易開始，這種交易是可以擴大的。然後你開始從事財務、人力資源工作。然後您擴展到製造雲或計費等等。同時，你會看到客戶價值從 50 萬美元成長到 200 萬美元再到 300 萬美元。當然，這並不是結束，但你會看到，如此大規模的業務也將進一步促進成長。達成並簽署交易後，隨著時間的推移，淨新增客戶數量也會大幅增加。

The next question is from the line of Michael J. Briest with UBS Limited.

下一個問題來自瑞銀有限公司的 Michael J. Briest。

Just on your comments, Christian, about applying AI internally. I think you mentioned a figure of sort of triple-digit million. Can you give us a sense of where that comes from? And is this EUR 100 million to EUR 150 million or high triple-digit million and over what time you might realize that?

克里斯蒂安，關於內部應用人工智慧的評論。我記得你提到的數字是幾百萬左右。您能告訴我們這是從何而來的嗎？這個數字是 1 億歐元到 1.5 億歐元還是數千萬歐元？

And just a quick clarification, Dominik, on the free cash flow. It's obviously very good. Did that include the final repayment of the factoring of, think about, EUR 200 million that's spilled over from last year? And obviously, you're saying that the restructuring is not quite finalized yet potentially. Clearly, your EUR 3.5 billion number is safe for you, that number does creep up a bit.

多明尼克，我只是想快速澄清一下自由現金流。顯然是非常好的。這是否包括去年遺留下來的 2 億歐元保理業務的最終償還？顯然，您說重組可能尚未完全完成。顯然，35 億歐元的數字對您來說是安全的，這個數字確實略有上升。

I can start on the internal rollout of AI. Yes, indeed, it's a triple-digit million of efficiencies. And what we are already doing right now, we roll out Joule, especially for SAP SuccessFactors. So job description, learning CoPilot, interviews feedback, that's all automated now via Joule. In procurement, we have current recommendations rolled out in category tools. In IT, or in the cost functions, for example, take F&A, we have to screen hundreds of thousands of contracts every year. That's now completely automated with generating AI. In Scott's world, in the sales world, we actually also use now AI for content generation for demo, actually for the business case creation, which saves a lot of time.

我可以開始內部推廣人工智慧。是的，確實有數千萬的效率。我們現在正在做的是推出 Joule，特別是針對 SAP SuccessFactors。因此，職位描述、學習 CoPilot、面試回饋，現在都可以透過 Joule 自動完成。在採購方面，我們在類別工具中推出了目前的建議。在 IT 領域或成本職能領域（例如財務與會計），我們每年必須篩選數十萬份合約。現在，透過產生 AI，這個過程已完全實現自動化。在史考特的世界裡，在銷售領域，我們實際上也使用人工智慧來產生演示的內容，實際上用於創建商業案例，這節省了大量時間。

Development, of course, we have GitHub but then also we are using our own SAP built automated cogeneration tool, for example, for ABAP. If you think about that, we can increase the productivity of each developer by up to 30% to 40% already this year, by our own SAP build solution and also by GitHub. You can imagine the scale and the efficiencies we are going to generate in the years to come also by applying AI internally.

當然，在開發方面，我們有 GitHub，但我們也使用我們自己 SAP 建構的自動化聯合生成工具，例如 ABAP。如果你想的話，今年我們可以透過自己的 SAP 建置解決方案以及 GitHub 將每位開發人員的生產力提高 30% 到 40%。你可以想像未來幾年透過在內部應用人工智慧我們將實現的規模和效率。

Dominik?

多明尼克？

On the free cash flow side, you asked about the kind of discontinuation of the factoring, I would say, it was, yes, partially, not fully, because there are some deals which might spend longer term. But we basically, in 2024, discontinue this practice, so you already see a part of the roll-off. I want to highlight though that the bigger thing, so to speak, in Q1 still is that we paid the fines, the famous EUR 0.2 billion on DOJ and other authorities. So that was weighing in Q1 and is already digested. So we're also very pleased with the free cash flow performance in Q1.

在自由現金流方面，您詢問保理業務的停止情況，我想說，是的，是部分的，但不是全部的，因為有些交易可能會持續更長時間。但我們基本上在 2024 年停止了這種做法，因此您已經看到了一部分的減少。我想強調的是，第一季最重要的事情仍然是我們支付了罰款，也就是司法部和其他部門支付的著名的 2 億歐元罰款。所以這對 Q1 產生了影響並且已經被消化了。因此，我們對第一季的自由現金流表現也非常滿意。

The next question is from the line of James Goodman with Barclays Capital.

下一個問題來自巴克萊資本的詹姆斯·古德曼。

Maybe with investor focus, I think, increasingly shifting beyond '25, I want to just come back just to some commentary around the transition at a high level and specifically sort of framing that in a financial sense. The maintenance base that still remains in the business today, can you help us a little bit with just how much of that really needs to transition to cloud? I mean I'm conscious that there was sales, for example, of S/4 before the RISE program, for example, came in. And really then just when does that substantially need to be done by given the 2027 deadline but also the extended support period beyond that, so just how much of the base really and over what period?

我認為，也許隨著投資者的關注點越來越多地轉向 25 年以後，我想回到對高層轉型的一些評論，特別是從財務角度對其進行闡述。目前業務中仍保留著維護基礎，您能否幫助我們了解其中有多少真正需要轉換到雲端？我的意思是，我意識到在 RISE 計劃實施之前，S/4 就有銷售。

And just a related second question, just around the services business only growing 1% this quarter, I know it's a slightly tougher comp, but given the demand for implementation work and such, like here around S/4, I might have expected that to be a little higher. Are you expecting it to pick back up? Or is there a structural reason it remains lower?

第二個相關問題，本季服務業務僅成長 1%，我知道這是一個稍微困難一點的比較，但考慮到實施工作的需求，例如 S/4 左右，我可能會預期這個數字會更高一些。您期望它會回升嗎？或者說，存在結構性原因導致其維持較低水準？

So maintenance, a little bit more than half of our EUR 11 billion maintenance base we have today is in products, which go out of regular maintenance by end of 2027. And then the question is how much of that will still not convert to cloud but will go to extended maintenance at a higher cost, so that's the parameter. And I think it's safe to assume that the lion's share of all that by 2030 will, at some fashion, disappear because we will not, as we say so many times, prolong maintenance on these products. Of course, the rest being on other products, also, of course, on S/4, which you know has a kind of lifetime through 2040, so there's ample room there. But indeed, there is an anticipation that there will be an acceleration in conversions from that angle as people need to transition from ECC to cloud given what I just described.

因此，維護，我們今天的 110 億歐元維護基礎中略多於一半用於產品，這些產品到 2027 年底將不再進行定期維護。我認為可以肯定地說，到 2030 年，其中的大部分將會以某種方式消失，因為正如我們多次所說的，我們不會延長這些產品的維護時間。當然，其餘的都在其他產品上，當然也包括在 S/4 上，它的生命週期可以到 2040 年，所以那裡有足夠的空間。但事實上，根據我剛才描述的情況，人們需要從 ECC 過渡到雲，因此從這個角度來看，人們預計轉換速度將會加速。

On the services business, I mean, Scott, please also feel free to comment. I mean, look, on services, first of all, we are delivering 90% of our projects via ecosystem and the remainder, the 10% share, of course, what we are doing there, yes, there was some seasonality with the Easter holidays now in Q1, we had some onetime last year in Q1, but in a nutshell, of course, this business will, of course, continue also show growth going forward. And what is very important with regard to our services business, what we are focusing is more on the high-margin services like when you're going into a RISE deal, you need a great architecture that will connect the process, the system and the data layer to drive this holistic transformation.

關於服務業務，我的意思是，斯科特，也請隨意發表評論。我的意思是，首先，在服務方面，我們 90％ 的項目是透過生態系統交付的，剩下的 10％ 的份額，當然，我們在那裡做的事情，是的，現在第一季度的複活節假期有一些季節性，去年第一季度我們也有過一次，但簡而言之，當然，這項業務當然會繼續呈現增長。對於我們的服務業務而言，非常重要的是，我們更專注於高利潤服務，例如當您進行 RISE 交易時，您需要一個能夠連接流程、系統和資料層的出色架構，以推動這一整體轉型。

Then we have the best process experts here when you talk about business model, transformation, when you talk about design to operate. Obviously, of course, our consultants need to be leading and also sharing best practices of other customers. While, of course, main part of the technical migration or the technical consulting will be delivered by our ecosystem, rightfully delivered by our ecosystem.

當您談論商業模式、轉型、營運設計時，我們會有最好的流程專家。顯然，我們的顧問需要發揮引領作用，同時也要分享其他客戶的最佳實踐。當然，技術遷移或技術諮詢的主要部分將由我們的生態系統提供，理所當然地由我們的生態系統提供。

I just want to add one thing back on the support revenue that Dominik described. Bear in mind that when we talk, on one hand, about large deals, when you've got these large programs of transformation, that includes a period of coexistence where customers will keep the maintenance of their on-premise capability until such time that they've transformed into the cloud. So that steady progress accelerated transformation, it's happening in tandem. So as you see the cloud revenue growth, you will also see the corresponding takedown of the support revenues, but it is in light of a customer's transformation. So all the RISE customers that were existing, customers that you saw in Q1, in quarters in the past, go through that journey. And so you can see a measured and managed downgrade of the support in light with the cloud lifting in correspondence.

我只想補充一點關於多米尼克所描述的支援收入。請記住，一方面，當我們談論大型交易時，當您擁有這些大型轉型計劃時，其中包括一段共存期，在此期間，客戶將繼續維護他們的內部部署能力，直到他們轉型到雲端為止。因此，穩步前進與加速轉型是同步進行的。因此，當您看到雲端收入成長時，您也會看到支援收入相應下降，但這是根據客戶的轉型而定的。因此，所有現有的 RISE 客戶、您在第一季和過去幾季看到的客戶都經歷了這一歷程。因此，您可以看到，隨著雲層的上升，光照支持度降低且有控制。

And maybe one word regarding the maintenance because, I guess, yes, this is an important factor in all the modules. I mean, look, there are certain parts of an ERP. As I also mentioned at the beginning, it's a monolithic ERP architecture. And in there is, for example, also BW system. And for example, a BW system is not so easily replaced. There's also a lot of custom code build. It's a massive reporting engine. And with Datasphere and with our partners, we, of course, also now more and more shifting this to the cloud.

也許還有關於維護的一句話，因為我想，是的，這是所有模組中的一個重要因素。我的意思是，你看，ERP 有特定的部分。正如我在一開始提到的，這是一個單體式 ERP 架構。例如，其中還有 BW 系統。例如，BW 系統並不是那麼容易被取代的。還有很多自訂程式碼建置。這是一個龐大的報告引擎。當然，透過與 Datasphere 和我們的合作夥伴的合作，我們現在也越來越多地將其轉移到雲端。

Will it all be Ws, completely migrated to the cloud by 2027? No. But we will, of course, partially replace them over time. So it's fair to assume that, of course, some maintenance revenue will also be after 2027. That's all moduled in. And then what I see now with business AI, the upside in accelerating the move of our installed base because every customer now finally gets that in the cloud, there is so much innovation. There's also with AI differentiation. So I actually expect that we see a further acceleration of our installed base move to the cloud.

到 2027 年，一切都會變得完全遷移到雲端嗎？不會。因此，可以合理地假設，當然，一些維護收入也將在 2027 年之後。還有人工智慧的差異化。因此我實際上預計我們會看到安裝基數向雲端的轉移進一步加速。

The next question is from the line of Mohammed Moawalla with Goldman Sachs International.

下一個問題來自高盛國際的 Mohammed Moawalla。

I had two quick ones, if I may. First one, for Dominik, you talked about kind of a minimal amount of the transformation charge taken in Q1. How should we think of the phasing of that over the course of the year? And I kind of understand that you're still in discussion with kind of affected employees. And how should that kind of phase through the course of the year?

如果可以的話，我有兩個快速的問題。首先，對於多明尼克，您談到了第一季發生的最低限度的轉換費用。我們應該如何考慮在一年內分階段實施這項目標？而且我大概知道您仍在與受影響的員工進行討論。那麼這一階段該如何貫穿全年呢？

And then secondly, for Dominik as well, you alluded to earlier in the year that your kind of 2025 guidance still doesn't assume any significant working capital kind of improvements. But I know there's seasonality in the working capital, particularly in Q1. Are there any kind of plans or initiatives, whether it's around sort of shifting the kind of the invoicing to annual or other kind of collections levers that you can press on? And would you inclined to perhaps pass on some of those savings elsewhere in investments in the business? Or could that be as seen as a potential upside risk?

其次，對於多明尼克來說，您在今年稍早也提到，您的 2025 年指引仍然沒有假設任何重大的營運資本改善。但我知道營運資金有季節性，特別是在第一季。是否有任何計劃或舉措，無論是將發票類型轉變為年度發票，還是其他可以採取的收款手段？您是否傾向於將部分儲蓄用於其他業務投資？或者這是否可以看作是潛在的上行風險？

Well, thanks. A lot of questions in one go, so to speak, almost like a planning discussion. So in terms of phasing, what I mentioned is that of the EUR 2.2 billion accrued for restructuring, very little, if anything, has been kind of paid already in Q1. So I talked about cash out as opposed to the accrual. The accrual has been taken, and we said the vast majority of the accruals we currently expect have been taken in Q1. The program will run throughout the year and actually into Q1 2025. So it's not the final number yet. There are voluntary programs in there where we have to wait for the acceptance rate. There are still negotiations with social partners.

好吧，謝謝。可以這麼說，一下子提出很多問題，幾乎就像一場計畫討論。因此，就分階段而言，我提到的是，在重組所花費的 22 億歐元中，很少有資金在第一季就已經支付。因此我談論的是現金支出而不是應計。應計費用已經計提，我們表示，目前預計的絕大部分應計費用已在第一季提列。該計劃將全年運行，實際上將持續到 2025 年第一季。其中有一些自願項目，我們必須等待錄取率。目前仍在與社會夥伴進行談判。

I did mention that in the U.S., we actually had a very high acceptance rate, which kind of drove that accrual up a little bit. Also, the share price increase has driven the accrual up a little bit because, obviously, we have to compensate more for the entitlements of the people that are leaving because they are good levers if we want them to leave, so to speak. But we also said that let's see what's coming beyond that, if anything. Of course, we will only go for more reductions than what we have planned in case there is a good business case. Otherwise, it wouldn't sense. So I think you can rest assured on that one.

我確實提到過，在美國，我們的錄取率實際上非常高，這在一定程度上推動了這一增長。此外，股價上漲也使應計費用略有增加，因為顯然，我們必須對離職人員的權益給予更多補償，因為如果我們想讓他們離開，這些權益就是很好的槓桿。但我們也說過，如果有的話，讓我們看看接下來會發生什麼。當然，只有在有良好商業案例的情況下，我們才會進行比計畫更多的減排。否則就沒有任何意義。因此我想你可以對此放心。

With regards to the cash flow in 2025, you mentioned that we have been not super aggressive in terms of working capital improvements in 2025. We are making some progress as we speak. I want to caution that we have really a very comprehensive transformation program and really executing the head count reduction is of utmost important, so that's the key priority right now. There are certainly opportunities.

關於 2025 年的現金流，您提到我們在 2025 年營運資本改善方面並不是非常積極。我想提醒的是，我們確實有一個非常全面的轉型計劃，真正執行裁員是至關重要的，所以這是目前的首要任務。機會肯定是有的。

We did mention that the EUR 8 billion free cash flow ambition for 2025 was assuming no spillover of restructuring cash out into 2025, so that is kind of the potential risk there that, if you spill over some cash out from 2024 or restructuring in 2025, that will weigh on that. But then the question is, I mean, to what degree can we offset? So I don't want to kind of go into more details at that point in time. But obviously, that is one of the questions. As we mature our restructuring program, we have more clarity on how many people are leaving, at what cost. With the phasing of the cash out, we can sharpen pencil and update either.

我們確實提到，2025 年 80 億歐元的自由現金流目標是假設重組現金不會溢出到 2025 年，因此這是一種潛在的風險，如果 2024 年的一些現金溢出或在 2025 年進行重組，就會對此造成壓力。但問題是，我們能在多大程度上抵消？所以我現在還不想談更多細節。但顯然，這是問題之一。隨著我們重組計畫的日趨完善，我們越來越清楚有多少人離開，以及離開的代價是什麼。隨著現金的逐步流出，我們可以削尖鉛筆並進行更新。

And maybe one word from my side on the workforce transformation. As Dominik is saying, yes, we are a little bit ahead after we started the restructuring program on people leaving SAP, and we do this in a very controlled manner. We have identified the job profiles, which we either reskill or actually want to reduce, also why our restructuring. And then second, we bring all the data scientists and new capabilities also onboard for the platform, which we need to capture our future growth opportunity. And if there are more levers, of course, the business case needs to make sense. So you can actually expect that we also then, of course, manage this also tightly in the next quarters.

我想就勞動力轉型談談我的看法。正如多明尼克所說，是的，在啟動針對離開 SAP 人員的重組計劃後，我們確實取得了一些進展，而且我們以非常可控的方式進行了這項工作。我們已經確定了哪些職位需要重新培訓或實際上想要減少，以及我們進行重組的原因。其次，我們將所有資料科學家和新功能引入該平台，這是我們抓住未來成長機會所需要的。當然，如果有更多槓桿，商業案就需要合理。因此你實際上可以預期，我們當然也會在接下來的幾季嚴格管理這一點。

The final question for today comes from the line of Charles Brennan with Jefferies.

今天的最後一個問題來自傑富瑞（Jefferies）的查爾斯·布倫南（Charles Brennan）。

I was wondering if you could just say something very quickly about the cloud incentives that you rolled out in Q1. I know you started those in Q4 of last year. It sounds like they were a bit more extensive in the quarter. Do you think that made much of an impact to the accelerating CCB? And I know the incentives were only for the first year of this transformation. Does it actually act potentially a headwind to the CCB?

我想知道您是否可以簡單介紹一下您在第一季推出的雲端激勵措施。我知道你是在去年第四季開始這些的。聽起來他們在本季做得更廣泛一些。您認為這對加速 CCB 有很大影響嗎？我知道這些激勵措施只針對轉型的第一年。這是否實際上可能對 CCB 造成阻礙？

And then secondly, can I just squeeze a financial clarification in just on the stock-based comp? I think you said it was EUR 100 million incremental charge in the quarter. But what are you assuming on a full year basis? And in your unchanged EBIT guidance, what's helping to offset that higher share-based comp?

其次，我能否僅就股票薪酬的財務狀況作出澄清？我記得您說過本季的增量費用為 1 億歐元。但是您對全年的情況有何假設？在您不變的息稅前利潤指引中，哪些因素有助於抵銷更高的股權收益？

Scott, I can go first, and please build on it. I mean, first of all, on the migration incentives. I guess the major change which we did, which is not impacting margins, is that we are not only incentivizing now anymore S/4HANA finance, but we're incentivizing Cloud ERP as we have to also move our monolithic ERP on-premise system to the cloud. And there, we are talking about HR, travel, procurement, all the modules I mentioned already at the beginning of the call. And they are now also incentivized to migrate, which just makes a ton of sense because you actually have a onetime migration fund but then you're actually building a recurring revenue stream.

斯科特，我可以先說，請在此基礎上繼續。我首先要說的是移民激勵措施。我想我們所做的重大改變（這不會影響利潤率）是我們現在不僅激勵 S/4HANA 財務，而且還激勵雲端 ERP，因為我們還必須將我們的整體 ERP 內部部署系統遷移到雲端。我們在那裡討論人力資源、旅行、採購以及我在通話開始時提到的所有模組。現在他們也有了移民的動力，這非常有意義，因為你實際上有一個一次性的移民基金，但你實際上是在建立一個經常性的收入來源。

And these deals, you also see it in the multiple, the multiple is not going down, are extremely healthy. And then while you have this onetime efforts on the migration fund, you see then the recurring revenue coming in, the cross-sell, the upsell we do over the course of the year. So I actually see this as a very positive incentive for our customers. And it will also, of course, also help us to further expand our footprint in the installed base.

而且這些交易的倍數也沒有下降，非常健康。然後，當您在遷移基金上進行一次性努力的同時，您會看到經常性收入的流入、交叉銷售和我們在一年內進行的追加銷售。因此我實際上認為這對我們的客戶來說是一個非常積極的激勵。當然，它也將幫助我們進一步擴大已安裝基礎的覆蓋範圍。

Scott?

史考特？

Yes. I think just two things to add to what you described, Christian. The first is these customers, many of these customers have invested heavily with SAP over a long period of time. And we acknowledge that with those investments made in the past, our role about helping them on the transformation becomes more important than ever. So the transformation incentive to be able to migrate is a part of a broader picture, helping them on an ongoing road map, driving to that Clean Core architecture and making sure they can leverage the business AI. So it not just provides a financial benefit but is also the role and the method and the tooling that SAP brings to help them on that journey. And the two in combination then becomes a more compelling factor for our customers to drive.

是的。我認為只需要補充兩件事就可以說明你所描述的內容，克里斯蒂安。首先是這些客戶，其中許多客戶長期以來對 SAP 進行了大量投資。我們承認，透過過去的投資，我們在幫助他們轉型方面所發揮的作用變得比以往任何時候都更加重要。因此，能夠遷移的轉型誘因是更廣闊前景的一部分，可以幫助他們制定持續的路線圖，推動 Clean Core 架構，並確保他們能夠利用業務 AI。因此，它不僅提供了財務利益，而且也是 SAP 為幫助他們實現這一目標所提供的角色、方法和工具。兩者結合起來將成為吸引我們客戶更具吸引力的因素。

And then secondly, it can be applied in multiple ways. So the incentive can be used against not only on maybe their maintenance but also for services and for other capabilities, including our ecosystem partners, to help them drive that.

其次，它可以以多種方式應用。因此，激勵措施不僅可用於維護，還可用於服務和其他能力，包括我們的生態系統合作夥伴，以幫助他們推動這一目標。

One last word on the TCO and on cloud gross margin, I mean, you have seen, if you would now exclude the stock-based and the higher share price in Q1, actually, we have a very healthy expansion of our cloud gross margin. And what is coming from a TCO perspective in the next weeks, months, quarters, is we are now embedding Arm processors into our solutions. We are moving more and more of our solutions also now to HANA Cloud in a nondisruptive way. It's already all baked in, also cost-wise in our guidance, which will also give us enormously more scale to also balance peak workloads much better in the future.

最後再說一下 TCO 和雲毛利率，我的意思是，你已經看到，如果你現在排除股票和第一季更高的股價，實際上，我們的雲毛利率有一個非常健康的擴張。從 TCO 角度來看，未來幾週、幾個月、幾個季度，我們將把 Arm 處理器嵌入到我們的解決方案中。我們現在以無中斷的方式將越來越多的解決方案遷移到 HANA Cloud。這一切都已經融入其中，而且在我們的指導中也考慮到了成本，這也將為我們提供更大的規模，以便在未來更好地平衡尖峰工作負載。

And then when you look at the RISE journey, I mean the customers are now at 20% to 30% of the migration done. And of course, the more workloads you are putting on the architecture, on the infrastructure, the more economies of scale you are getting. So we are also very happy with the progress we are seeing on margin, especially profits in the private cloud. So now actually, I'm very confident also about a further gross margin expansion then also not only this year but also in the years to come.

然後，當您查看 RISE 歷程時，我的意思是客戶現在已經完成了 20% 到 30% 的遷移。當然，你在架構和基礎架構上投入的工作量越大，你獲得的規模經濟就越大。因此，我們對利潤率的進步感到非常高興，尤其是私有雲的利潤。所以實際上，我對毛利率的進一步擴大也非常有信心，不僅今年，而且未來幾年。

Maybe on the stock-based compensation, Charles, so the kind of EUR 135 million increase was kind of the order of magnitude, which was unexpected, because we actually said that we had EUR 2.2 billion in stock-based compensation last year in 2023. We said that in our ambition update, when we included stock-based compensation, we include about EUR 2 billion in 2025. We also said that 2024 will be somewhere in the middle. But we now see that because of that very, very strong share price increase in Q1, that kind of EUR 135 million increase will basically feed to the year.

也許是關於股票薪酬，查爾斯，1.35 億歐元的增幅是一個數量級，這是出乎意料的，因為我們實際上說，去年 2023 年我們的股票薪酬為 22 億歐元。我們說，在我們的雄心更新中，當我們包括股票薪酬時，我們在 2025 年中間有了約 20 億歐元。但我們現在看到，由於第一季股價上漲非常強勁，這 1.35 億歐元的增幅基本上將延續到全年。

Why don't we think that will reoccur? Because simply, there are two parts to that, which drove it up. One is the exceptionally high increase in the share price. I mean if you think about the 29%, 30% we've seen in Q1 and you compare it to the normal standard deviation we have in any given quarter over the last 10, 20 years, it's actually a 2.3 to 2.4 standard deviation variance. So it happens once every 100 quarters actually from a statistical point of view.

我們為什麼認為這種情況不會再發生？因為簡單來說，有兩個部分推動了它的發展。一是股價漲幅異常高。我的意思是，如果您考慮我們在第一季看到的 29%、30%，並將其與過去 10 年、20 年任何一個季度的正常標準差進行比較，它實際上是 2.3 到 2.4 個標準差。因此從統計學角度來看，這種情況實際上每 100 個季度就會發生一次。

Secondly, we are losing the sensitivity, so to speak, because this was the last kind of fully cash settled tranche under this Move 2021 Program, which is by far the largest. And as we move to more equity settle, which is not flowing through the P&L, we don't expect that sensitivity to stay so high. So now, yes, we did compensate, to a certain degree, in our guidance, and that's simply that we kind of grind on all corners to see how we can make up for that because we don't want to kind of be burdened by that, but compensate. It all demonstrates how important it is to embark stock-based compensation in the overall equation. It's a real factor, and actually it becomes more and more valuable, the better the company performs. So from that perspective, I think it was the right decision to make sure we manage it holistically, the cost base, including stock-based compensation.

其次，我們正在失去敏感性，因為這是 Move 2021 計劃下最後一個完全以現金結算的部分，也是迄今為止規模最大的部分。隨著我們轉向更多的股權結算（不透過損益表流動），我們預計這種敏感度不會保持如此之高。所以現在，是的，我們確實在一定程度上在指導中進行了補償，而這只是我們在各個方面努力尋找彌補方法，因為我們不想因此而受到負擔，而是想進行補償。這一切都證明了在整體薪酬體系中加入股票薪酬是多麼重要。這是一個真實存在的因素，事實上，公司業績越好，它就越有價值。因此從這個角度來看，我認為確保我們全面管理成本基礎（包括股票薪酬）是正確的決定。

Thank you, Charlie, for your question. Thanks, Christian, Scott and Dominik, and we will conclude the call for today. Thanks for joining.

謝謝你，查理，提出這個問題。謝謝克里斯蒂安、史考特和多明尼克，今天的通話就到此結束。感謝您的加入。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. Bye-bye.

謝謝。再見。