SAP SE (SAP) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome, and thank you for joining the SAP Q3 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們先生們，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎並感謝您參加 SAP 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Anthony Coletta, Chief Investor Relations Officer. Please go ahead.

我現在想將會議交給首席投資者關係官安東尼·科萊塔 (Anthony Coletta)。請繼續。

Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss our third quarter results for 2023. With me on this call are CEO, Christian Klein; CFO, Dominik Asam; Scott Russell who leads customer success. You can find the deck supplementing this call as well as our quarterly statement on our Investor Relations website.

大家晚上好，感謝大家加入我們討論 2023 年第三季業績。與我一起參加本次電話會議的有執行長 Christian Klein；財務長多米尼克·阿薩姆；斯科特·拉塞爾 (Scott Russell) 領導客戶成功。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到補充本次電話會議的資料以及我們的季度聲明。

During this call, we'll make forward-looking statements, which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to materially differ. Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including, but not limited to the Risk Factors section of SAP's annual report on Form 20-F for 2022.

在這次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，即對未來事件的預測、預測或其他陳述。這些陳述是基於目前的預期和假設，這些預期和假設存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果和成果有重大差異。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊可以在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中找到，包括但不限於 SAP 2022 年 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分。

Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS year-over-year at constant currencies. The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS.

除非另有說明，本次電話會議中的所有數據均為非國際財務報告準則，增長率和百分點變化均為固定匯率計算的非國際財務報告準則的同比變化。我們提供的非國際財務報告準則財務指標不應被視為替代或優於根據國際財務報告準則編製的財務績效指標。

Before turning over the call over to Christian, I would like to take a moment to recognize a significant milestone for SAP. This quarter marked the 25-year anniversary of its listing on the New York Stock Exchange. Reflecting on this journey, SAP began with a primary listing in Frankfurt 35 years ago to now be standing as the #1 company on the DAX. This dual listing is a testament to an amazing growth story. It signifies our dedication to providing our investors with prime access across to major capital markets.

在將電話轉給 Christian 之前，我想花點時間來認識 SAP 的一個重要里程碑。本季標誌著該公司在紐約證券交易所上市 25 週年。回顧這一歷程，SAP 於 35 年前在法蘭克福首次上市，如今已成為德國 DAX 指數排名第一的公司。此次雙重上市證明了一個驚人的成長故事。它標誌著我們致力於為投資者提供進入主要資本市場的最佳管道。

As we celebrate this milestone, now that the focus on sustainable growth remains unwavering and that the company is poised to keep innovating and creating shareholder value.

在我們慶祝這一里程碑之際，我們對永續成長的關注仍然堅定不移，公司已做好持續創新和創造股東價值的準備。

And with that, I'd like to turn the call over to Christian.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給克里斯蒂安。

Yes. Thank you, Anthony, and thanks, everyone, for joining us for our Q3 earnings call today. First of all, I want to express my shock and sadness at the heart-breaking events that have unfolded over the last few weeks. SAP condemns in the strongest possible terms, all acts of terror, and we are deeply concerned by the escalating conflict. We offer our deepest sympathies to all those impacted and are committed to supporting our colleagues, customers and partners during this most difficult time. I'm sure, I speak for everyone here at SAP, and I say that we hope for a swift resolution to this tragic situation.

是的。謝謝安東尼，也謝謝大家今天參加我們的第三季財報電話會議。首先，我想對過去幾週發生的令人心碎的事件表示震驚和悲傷。 SAP 以最強烈的措辭譴責所有恐怖行為，我們對不斷升級的衝突深感關切。我們向所有受影響的人表示最深切的同情，並致力於在這個最困難的時刻為我們的同事、客戶和合作夥伴提供支持。我確信，我代表 SAP 的每個人，我說我們希望迅速解決這一悲慘情況。

Let me now turn to more positive news and SAP's earnings. Our results clearly reflect the strong foundation we built over the last 3 years for the next phase of SAP's transformation. In Q3, we once again, achieved strong cloud growth and double-digit operating profit growth, up 16% for Q3 and 19% for the first 9 months, confirming what we have said all along, 2023 is the year of double-digit profit growth. And underlining the fact that we have reached the second phase of our transformation, the phase of acceleration.

現在讓我談談更多正面的消息和 SAP 的收益。我們的結果清楚地反映了我們在過去 3 年為 SAP 下一階段轉型奠定的堅實基礎。在第三季度，我們再次實現了強勁的雲端成長和兩位數的營業利潤成長，第三季度成長了16%，前9 個月成長了19%，證實了我們一直以來所說的，2023 年是兩位數利潤的一年生長。並強調我們已經進入轉型的第二階段，即加速階段。

The numbers tell the story best. Current cloud backlog is up 25% again, driven by strong order entry across the portfolio and backed by significantly lower churn. Cloud revenue growth is 23%. Within that, SaaS and PaaS is up 26%. The foundation of SAP's success story is the business technology platform, which underpins both our RISE and GROW offerings.

數字最能說明問題。在整個投資組合中強勁的訂單輸入以及客戶流失率顯著降低的推動下，當前的雲積壓再次增加了 25%。雲端收入成長 23%。其中，SaaS 和 PaaS 成長了 26%。 SAP 成功故事的基礎是商業技術平台，它支撐著我們的 RISE 和 GROW 產品。

BTP is also the foundation for SAP's business AI to ensure high-quality data and data privacy standards. Over 22,000 BTP live customers contribute to almost 50% cloud revenue growth in our PaaS business. This business has a run rate of well over EUR 2 billion. We achieved the overall cloud growth despite pressure on transactional revenue which was flat year-over-year due to the macroeconomic situation.

BTP也是SAP業務AI的基礎，以確保高品質的資料和資料隱私標準。超過 22,000 個 BTP 即時客戶為我們的 PaaS 業務貢獻了近 50% 的雲端收入成長。該業務的營業額遠超過 20 億歐元。儘管由於宏觀經濟情勢而導致交易收入同比持平，但我們還是實現了整體雲端成長。

Our total order entry, combining on-premise and cloud, grew at the fastest weight in almost 2 years. Behind these strong numbers are many new and existing customers who turn to us to future-proof their businesses. In the third quarter, we saw key customer wins like Adobe and ALDI SUD across our solution portfolio. We also saw a number of important go-lives, including BMW Group, Ducati and SCOTT Sports.

我們的總訂單量（包括本地和雲端）以近兩年來最快的速度成長。這些強勁數字的背後是許多新客戶和現有客戶向我們求助，以確保他們的業務面向未來。在第三季度，我們在我們的解決方案組合中看到了 Adob​​e 和 ALDI SUD 等關鍵客戶的成功。我們也看到了一些重要的上線，包括寶馬集團、杜卡迪和斯科特體育。

This quarter, we have once again seen significant momentum in our RISE customer number, reaching well over 4,300 RISE customers. Key customer wins include Puma, Siemens Healthineers, and LG with its energy solution and electronics units. There are multiple factors that drive the value of RISE with SAP for our customers. With the migration to the cloud, responsibility for IT operation shifts over to SAP and the hyperscaler. The combination of cloud ERP and SAP's process expertise is key for business model transformation.

本季度，我們再次看到 RISE 客戶數量的顯著成長，達到 4,300 多個 RISE 客戶。贏得的主要客戶包括 Puma、Siemens Healthineers 和 LG 及其能源解決方案和電子產品。有多種因素可以為我們的客戶帶來 RISE with SAP 的價值。隨著遷移到雲端，IT 營運的責任轉移到 SAP 和超大規模企業。雲端 ERP 與 SAP 流程專業知識的結合是業務模式轉型的關鍵。

Let's take LG Energy Solution, for example. They chose SAP to help meet the growing demand for electric vehicle batteries. Process standardization and embedded AI increased the productivity of customers in manufacturing, supply chain, HR and finance. And by always being on the latest release, our customers also gain greater agility through continuous innovation.

我們以 LG 能源解決方案為例。他們選擇 SAP 來幫助滿足電動車電池不斷增長的需求。流程標準化和嵌入式人工智慧提高了客戶在製造、供應鏈、人力資源和財務方面的生產力。透過始終使用最新版本，我們的客戶還可以透過持續創新獲得更大的敏捷性。

Finally, we are removing the data silos with RISE with SAP and build one strong data layer to allow to steer the business 360 with real-time data. RISE and GROW are also very exciting opportunities for SAP. The 2 offerings result in net new customers and an installed base maintenance conversion of more than 2x. At the heart of RISE and GROW, we have the business technology platform. It is the B2B platform for customers, partners, hyperscalers and, of course, our own developers because it is the platform for the development of mission-critical business applications to extend our core. And this is why it represents such a massive business opportunity also in the years to come.

最後，我們將透過 SAP 的 RISE 消除資料孤島，並建立一個強大的資料層，以便利用即時資料來引導業務 360 度。 RISE 和 GROW 對 SAP 來說也是非常令人興奮的機會。這兩種產品帶來了淨新客戶和超過 2 倍的安裝基礎維護轉換。作為 RISE 和 GROW 的核心，我們擁有業務技術平台。它是面向客戶、合作夥伴、超大規模企業，當然還有我們自己的開發人員的 B2B 平台，因為它是開發關鍵任務業務應用程式以擴展我們核心的平台。這就是為什麼它在未來幾年也代表著如此巨大的商機。

More than 80% of our RISE and GROW customers use BTP to integrate and extend the cloud ERP portfolio with differentiating capabilities. And we are already seeing strong cross-sell potential with customers replacing legacy ERP with public cloud ERP components, such as SAP SuccessFactors, Ariba and Concur. That trend continues to grow. S/4HANA cloud customers are 4x more likely to have 4 or more of our cloud LoB products with the BTP as the integration and extension layer for cloud ERP.

我們超過 80% 的 RISE 和 GROW 客戶使用 BTP 來整合和擴展具有差異化功能的雲端 ERP 產品組合。我們已經看到客戶使用 SAP SuccessFactors、Ariba 和 Concur 等公有雲 ERP 元件來取代舊版 ERP 的強大交叉銷售潛力。這種趨勢還在持續增長。 S/4HANA 雲端客戶擁有 4 個或更多我們的雲端 LoB 產品並將 BTP 作為雲端 ERP 的整合和擴展層的可能性增加了 4 倍。

And finally, we are able to deliver innovation to customers much faster, meaning we can focus our R&D spend on innovation and not on maintenance and localization. It's a win-win for our customers and SAP even under difficult macroeconomic conditions.

最後，我們能夠更快地為客戶提供創新，這意味著我們可以將研發支出集中在創新上，而不是維護和在地化。即使在困難的宏觀經濟條件下，這對我們的客戶和 SAP 來說也是雙贏的。

Last week, we took RISE to the next level. We have launched a new Premium Plus package for RISE, including differentiating AI, sustainability and advanced finance capability, such as cash flow optimization. It also simplifies how our customers consume AI with a new consumption-oriented license model. Furthermore, we have introduced a new conversion program for RISE with SAP. This program offers further commercial incentives to support our customers on their transformation journeys and accelerate their move to SAP's cloud ERP.

上週，我們將 RISE 提升到了一個新的水平。我們為 RISE 推出了新的 Premium Plus 套餐，包括差異化的人工智慧、永續發展和先進的財務能力，例如現金流優化。它還透過新的消費導向的授權模式簡化了我們的客戶使用人工智慧的方式。此外，我們也為 RISE with SAP 引進了新的轉換程式。該計劃提供了進一步的商業激勵措施，以支援我們的客戶的轉型之旅並加速他們向 SAP 雲端 ERP 的遷移。

Likewise, GROW with SAP had also a great start with strong adoption among start-ups and companies new to SAP. GROW with SAP is our cloud-native ERP suite offering for rapidly growing mid-market companies. After only 3 quarters, more than 440 customers in over 80 countries have selected GROW with SAP's cloud ERP to accelerate their business, innovate and grow around the world.

同樣，GROW with SAP 也取得了良好的開端，在剛接觸 SAP 的新創公司和公司中得到了廣泛採用。 GROW with SAP 是我們為快速成長的中階市場公司提供的雲端原生 ERP 套件。僅 3 個季度後，80 多個國家的 440 多家客戶選擇了 GROW with SAP 雲端 ERP，以加速其在全球的業務、創新和發展。

Business transformation is much more than the pure technical migration of ERP legacy landscapes to the cloud. It's key to connect end-to-end processes and the entire data and system landscape to drive true transformation. In 2021, we acquired Signavio covering the process perspective. And in Q3, we announced our intent to acquire LeanIX to cover the overall enterprise architecture perspective, making sure processes, systems and data are yielding the right outcome for every SAP customer. Together, LeanIX, Signavio and SAP Cloud application life cycle management create a unique business transformation suite.

業務轉型不僅僅是將 ERP 遺留環境純粹技術遷移到雲端。連接端到端流程以及整個數據和系統環境以推動真正的轉型是關鍵。 2021 年，我們收購了涵蓋流程視角的 Signavio。在第三季度，我們宣布有意收購 LeanIX，以涵蓋整體企業架構視角，確保流程、系統和資料為每個 SAP 客戶帶來正確的結果。 LeanIX、Signavio 和 SAP Cloud 應用程式生命週期管理共同創建了獨特的業務轉型套件。

Earlier this year, we also introduced our business AI strategy to the market, bringing together our existing AI capabilities with the new potential of generative AI to transform how businesses run. We have already made a lot of focus over the last few months. We have consent from thousands of customers to use their anonymous data to develop and train our AI use cases and foundational data model. The launch of our digital copilot Joule was a huge success and we are starting to roll it out across our portfolio this fall. And just last week, we announced our new RISE Premium Plus commercial offering, as I mentioned already.

今年早些時候，我們也向市場推出了我們的商業人工智慧策略，將我們現有的人工智慧能力與生成式人工智慧的新潛力結合起來，以改變企業的運作方式。在過去的幾個月裡，我們已經做了很多關注。我們已獲得數千名客戶的同意，可以使用他們的匿名資料來開發和訓練我們的人工智慧用例和基礎資料模型。我們的數位副駕駛 Joule 的推出取得了巨大成功，我們將於今年秋天開始在我們的產品組合中推廣它。正如我已經提到的，就在上週，我們宣布了新的 RISE Premium Plus 商業產品。

SAP business AI is reliable. We are making promising progress on building foundational models to enable generative and predictive capabilities from structured business data. SAP Datasphere combines structured SAP data with data from other sources to produce highly accurate results, which is so essential in the B2B world. And our new copilot Joule will be able to work together with many LLM models to ensure we can offer this technology across the globe. And as a result, SAP Business AI is also more relevant.

SAP 業務 AI 是可靠的。我們在建立基礎模型以實現結構化業務資料的生成和預測能力方面取得了可喜的進展。 SAP Datasphere 將結構化 SAP 資料與其他來源的資料結合，產生高度準確的結果，這在 B2B 領域至關重要。我們的新副駕駛 Joule 將能夠與許多法學碩士模型合作，以確保我們能夠在全球範圍內提供這項技術。因此，SAP Business AI 也更具相關性。

Our copilot speaks more than CRM. It can manage finance, HR, procurement, sales, marketing, industries and ESG data, providing answers and recommendations to even the most complex questions and automating many activities currently performed manually by millions of SAP end users.

我們的副駕駛所說的不僅僅是 CRM。它可以管理財務、人力資源、採購、銷售、行銷、行業和 ESG 數據，為最複雜的問題提供答案和建議，並自動執行目前由數百萬 SAP 最終用戶手動執行的許多活動。

Recent announcements by key partners such as Accenture and Deloitte further underscore the central role played by SAP. Let's be clear, this is just the beginning. Over time, business AI will have a revolutionary impact on the entire business landscape and SAP will be at the center of that. So stay tuned for more exciting announcement at CX Life and TechED next month.

埃森哲和德勤等主要合作夥伴最近發布的公告進一步強調了 SAP 所發揮的核心作用。讓我們明確一點，這只是一個開始。隨著時間的推移，商業人工智慧將對整個商業格局產生革命性的影響，而 SAP 將成為其中的核心。請繼續關注下個月在 CX Life 和 TechED 上發布的更多令人興奮的公告。

In closing, let me quickly summarize. We have had a strong Q3, and I'm excited by the results. First, SAP continues to deliver on our commitments to the market, and we are now well into the second phase of our transformation. Second, SAP's unique position at the nexus between business and technology allows us to continue to translate innovations into business outcomes for our customers. Meaning, thirdly, despite ongoing macroeconomic headwinds, our cloud momentum remains strong and growth continues to accelerate, all in all, putting us well on track to achieve our 2025 ambition. This is just the beginning of the next phase. We will further accelerate innovation, drive focus in our portfolio and realize greater efficiencies with our increasing scale.

最後，讓我快速總結一下。我們的第三季表現強勁，我對結果感到興奮。首先，SAP 繼續履行我們對市場的承諾，我們現在已經進入轉型的第二階段。其次，SAP 在業務和技術之間的獨特地位使我們能夠繼續將創新轉化為客戶的業務成果。第三，儘管宏觀經濟面臨持續的阻力，但我們的雲端發展動能依然強勁，成長持續加速，總而言之，這使我們有望實現 2025 年的雄心壯志。這只是下一階段的開始。我們將進一步加速創新，推動產品組合的重點，並透過不斷擴大的規模實現更高的效率。

So with that, Dominik, over to you.

那麼，多明尼克，交給你了。

Thank you very much, Christian, and good evening, ladies and gentlemen. In light of the current macroeconomic environment, we are pleased with the results of the third quarter across the globe. And now, with the added capabilities of LeanIX and Joule, SAP is even better positioned to develop and deliver unparalleled value to our stakeholders. .

非常感謝你，克里斯蒂安，女士們先生們，晚上好。鑑於當前的宏觀經濟環境，我們對全球第三季的業績感到滿意。現在，憑藉 LeanIX 和 Joule 的附加功能，SAP 能夠更好地為我們的利害關係人開發和提供無與倫比的價值。 。

In Q3, we saw continued momentum of our cloud business with current cloud backlog growing by 25% for the third consecutive quarter. Cloud revenue in the third quarter grew by 23%, maintaining the growth rate we had achieved in Q3 of last year. The trend towards larger cloud transactions continued with deals greater than EUR 5 million in volume contributing approximately half of our cloud order entry.

在第三季度，我們看到雲端業務的持續成長勢頭，目前的雲積壓量連續第三個季度成長了 25%。第三季雲端營收成長了23%，維持了去年第三季的成長速度。更大的雲端交易趨勢仍在繼續，交易量超過 500 萬歐元，約占我們雲端訂單輸入的一半。

Let me walk you through our financial performance. Current cloud backlog was EUR 12.3 billion, growing by 25%, fueled by the success of RISE with SAP offerings. Our combined SaaS and PaaS portfolio continued to grow by 26%, with the SaaS cloud revenue up 23% and past cloud revenue even up 46%. This continued momentum was again fueled by the strong contribution of the business technology platform, which underpins every single SAP application.

讓我向您介紹我們的財務表現。目前的雲端積壓金額為 123 億歐元，成長了 25%，這得益於 RISE 與 SAP 產品的成功。我們的 SaaS 和 PaaS 組合持續成長 26%，其中 SaaS 雲端營收成長了 23%，過去的雲端收入甚至成長了 46%。業務技術平台的強大貢獻再次推動了這種持續的勢頭，該平台支撐著每個 SAP 應用程式。

Software licenses. Revenue saw a decrease of only 14%, demonstrating the resilience, thanks to a few major transactions. Finally, total revenue was up 9%, driven by broad-based strength across all predictable revenue streams.

軟體許可證。由於幾筆重大交易，收入僅下降了 14%，展現了韌性。最後，在所有可預測收入流的廣泛實力的推動下，總收入增加了 9%。

Now let's take a brief look at our regional performance. In the third quarter, SAP's cloud revenue performance was particularly strong in APJ and EMEA and solid in the Americas region. Brazil, India and the Netherlands had outstanding cloud revenue growth, while Canada, China, France, Germany, Japan and Switzerland performed particularly strong.

現在讓我們簡要回顧一下我們的區域表現。第三季度，SAP 的雲端營收表現在亞太及日本地區和歐洲、中東和非洲地區尤其強勁，在美洲地區也表現強勁。巴西、印度和荷蘭的雲端收入成長顯著，而加拿大、中國、法國、德國、日本和瑞士的表現尤其強勁。

Now let's move down the income statement. Our cloud gross profit grew by 28%, driven by the effective leveraging of economies of scale and operational efficiencies as evidenced by reduced cost ratios across the board. Growth in cloud gross margin in turn improved for the third consecutive quarter, expanding roughly 2.9 percentage points to 73.7% year-over-year.

現在讓我們把損益表往下移。在有效利用規模經濟和營運效率的推動下，我們的雲毛利成長了 28%，全面降低的成本比率就證明了這一點。雲毛利率的成長則連續第三個季度有所改善，較去年同期成長約 2.9 個百分點，達到 73.7%。

In the third quarter, non-IFRS operating profit increased by 16%, supported by the resilience of our on-premise business as well as operational discipline which overcompensated the negative impact of an accelerated amortization of capitalized sales commissions.

第三季度，非國際財務報告準則營業利潤成長了 16%，這得益於我們內部業務的彈性以及營運紀律，過度補償了資本化銷售佣金加速攤銷的負面影響。

Finally, the operating margin landed at 29.4%, which is a 1.9 percentage point improvement compared to prior year. IFRS earnings per share in the quarter increased by 45% to EUR 1.09. The IFRS effective tax rate for Q3 was 27.8% and the non-IFRS tax rate was 27.1%.

最終，營業利益率達 29.4%，比上年提高 1.9 個百分點。本季 IFRS 每股收益成長 45% 至 1.09 歐元。第三季的 IFRS 有效稅率為 27.8%，非 IFRS 稅率為 27.1%。

On to our cash generation. Free cash flow for Q3 increased to EUR 865 million, driven by SAP's profitability, improvements in working capital and lower payments for CapEx and leasing. For the first 9 months, free cash flow was EUR 3.4 billion, an increase by EUR 761 million.

接下來是我們的現金產生。受 SAP 獲利能力、營運資金改善以及資本支出和租賃付款減少的推動，第三季自由現金流增加至 8.65 億歐元。前 9 個月，自由現金流為 34 億歐元，增加 7.61 億歐元。

Now let's move on to our financial outlook. As you've likely seen by now, we are reiterating the outlook we had updated in July. For the detailed outlook, please refer to our quarterly statement published earlier today.

現在讓我們繼續討論我們的財務前景。正如您現在可能已經看到的，我們重申了 7 月更新的展望。有關詳細展望，請參閱我們今天早些時候發布的季度聲明。

Let's now discuss our nonfinancial targets. We can confirm our nonfinancial guidance for 2023 as we are well on track to meet our targets this year. In Q3, SAP once again had net carbon emissions of 0 kilotons. We continue to focus on achieving net-zero emissions across our value chain by 2030.

現在讓我們討論我們的非財務目標。我們可以確認 2023 年的非財務指引，因為我們今年有望實現目標。第三季度，SAP 的淨碳排放量再次達到 0 千噸。我們持續致力於在 2030 年實現整個價值鏈的淨零排放。

In summary, Q3 proved to be another solid quarter as evidenced by strong revenue and current cloud backlog growth. The structure move to the cloud and the interest of our customers in future proofing their businesses remain unabated. Despite the persisting macro headwinds, SAP continues to be mission critical in helping our customers transform their businesses, LeanIX and Joule are prime examples of our ongoing efforts to innovate around our solutions, giving customers access to a full suite of tools to fundamentally change the way they run their businesses.

總而言之，第三季度被證明是另一個穩健的季度，強勁的營收和目前的雲端積壓成長證明了這一點。該結構已轉移到雲端，我們的客戶對未來業務證明的興趣仍然有增無減。儘管宏觀阻力持續存在，SAP 仍然在幫助客戶實現業務轉型方面發揮著關鍵作用，LeanIX 和 Joule 是我們圍繞解決方案持續努力創新的典型例子，讓客戶能夠使用全套工具，從根本上改變業務方式他們經營自己的生意。

In addition to the top line, we continue to balance growth and profitability, allowing us to boost our bottom line. All of this gives us confidence in our ability to capitalize on a massive market opportunity presenting itself to SAP.

除了收入之外，我們還繼續平衡成長和獲利能力，從而提高我們的利潤。所有這些都讓我們對利用 SAP 面臨的龐大市場機會的能力充滿信心。

Thank you, and we will now be happy to take your questions.

謝謝您，我們現在很樂意回答您的問題。

All right. (Operator Instructions) So operator, please open the line.

好的。 （操作員指示）所以操作員，請打開線路。

(Operator Instructions) The first question comes from the line of Mark Moerdler with Sanford C. Bernstein.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 Mark Moerdler 和 Sanford C. Bernstein 的路線。

Congratulations on the strong quarter. In fact, I'd like to ask about that specifically. ERP has generally been thought of as core workloads that's not really impacted by macro. But we're seeing some of the vendors in the market, that there is persistent macro concerns of slowing, slowing to the pipeline, et cetera.

恭喜季度表現強勁。其實我想具體問一下這個問題。 ERP 通常被認為是不受宏觀影響的核心工作負載。但我們看到市場上的一些供應商對經濟放緩、管道建設放緩等方面存在持續的宏觀擔憂。

Can you give us some color on are you seeing anything in terms of slowing in the pipeline build, time to transition through the pipeline? Is there any difference between existing customers migrating versus new customers adoption? How should we think about that going forward?

您能否告訴我們一些信息，您是否看到管道構建速度減慢以及管道過渡時間方面的任何情況？現有客戶遷移與新客戶採用有區別嗎？未來我們該如何思考這個問題？

Thanks a lot, Mark, for the question. I mean, look, first of all, from a customer base perspective, I mean, we see strong momentum both in converting our installed base, as you heard, with a very healthy conversion factor to the cloud. But second, GROW with SAP had also an exceptionally strong start, and these are really representing new customers to the SAP family.

非常感謝馬克提出這個問題。我的意思是，首先，從客戶群的角度來看，我的意思是，正如您所聽到的，我們在將我們的安裝基礎轉換為雲端的過程中看到了強勁的勢頭，並且具有非常健康的轉換因子。但其次，GROW with SAP 也有一個異常強勁的開端，這些確實代表了 SAP 系列的新客戶。

And with regard to the pipeline. Look, I highlighted LG Electronics, for example, and this is a very good example on many of the ERP deals we are doing. This company is also going through a massive transformation and electric and batteries, they are producing this at mass scale. And this is a different business model to what they did in the past. And so they not only need a new ERP, they need a new way of how they won LG Electronics, and that's why they are deciding and approving this business case. And so this is essential to their business.

關於管道。例如，我強調了 LG Electronics，這是我們正在進行的許多 ERP 交易的一個很好的例子。該公司也正在經歷大規模的電力和電池轉型，他們正在大規模生產。這是與他們過去所做的不同的商業模式。因此，他們不僅需要新的 ERP，還需要一種贏得 LG 電子的新方式，這就是他們決定並批准此業務案例的原因。因此這對他們的業務至關重要。

And while, of course, the macroeconomic times are tough out there, we are extremely relevant to our customers' transformation. And on top, you heard the announcement around SAP Business AI and of course, we have to deliver that in the cloud. And that's, of course, another strong driver for our pipeline in the next quarters.

當然，儘管宏觀經濟情勢嚴峻，但我們與客戶的轉型息息相關。最重要的是，您聽到了有關 SAP Business AI 的公告，當然，我們必須在雲端中交付它。當然，這是我們未來幾季管道的另一個強大驅動力。

But Scott, over to you to give some more light on the quarter and the pipeline.

但是斯科特，請您提供有關本季和管道的更多資訊。

Yes, sure. Happy to, Christian. So I think you said it well with the example of LG, but if I broaden that out, what we're seeing in the market across all geographies is companies, small, medium and large, are focusing on their core. What's mission-critical? How do they get efficiency and then set themselves up to be able to take -- seize opportunities or protect against threats in their business. And so that's why the ERP in the cloud is so important.

是的，當然。很高興，克里斯蒂安。所以我認為你用 LG 的例子說得很好，但如果我擴大範圍，我們在所有地區的市場上看到的是，小型、中型和大型公司都專注於自己的核心。什麼是關鍵任務？他們如何提高效率，然後讓自己抓住業務機會或防範威脅。這就是雲端中 ERP 如此重要的原因。

It's not just the move in the cloud, it's the transformation of their business using our ERP cloud and extended capabilities. And that's why you see such resilience because when things are uncertain or you need prudence, you make sure your core operating model of your company is fit and match fit for the future that you're driving. So LG, but I think about customers like Adobe, 3M, there's so many others that are going through this journey with us to be able to make sure that they can seize and future proof of their business.

這不僅僅是遷移到雲端中，而是使用我們的 ERP 雲端和擴展功能進行業務轉型。這就是為什麼你會看到如此的彈性，因為當事情不確定或你需要謹慎時，你要確保公司的核心營運模式適合你正在推動的未來。 LG，但我想到像 Adob​​e、3M 這樣的客戶，還有很多其他客戶正在與我們一起經歷這一旅程，以確保他們能夠抓住並證明其業務的未來。

The one other thing that I would highlight, and Christian mentioned this in the opening comments, is that when we see our customers, which we've had a lot of large customers come in with RISE with SAP, they're not just looking at the core ERP. They're then looking at the extended capabilities to be able to resolve, whether it be in commerce or in HR or in procurement or in supply chain. So the extended capability through that integration that we've invested so heavily over the past few years, they're now able to seize upon that opportunity to be able to drive forward, which means the future is obviously notwithstanding the macroeconomic conditions. We feel like we're well placed.

我要強調的另一件事是，克里斯蒂安在開場評論中提到了這一點，那就是，當我們看到我們的客戶時，我們有很多大客戶透過 SAP 的 RISE 進來，他們不僅僅是在看核心ERP。然後，他們正在尋找能夠解決的擴展功能，無論是在商業、人力資源、採購還是供應鏈中。因此，透過過去幾年我們投入巨資的整合來擴展能力，他們現在能夠抓住這個機會，能夠向前發展，這意味著無論宏觀經濟條件如何，未來顯然都是如此。我們感覺自己處於有利位置。

The next question is from the line of Toby Ogg with JPMorgan, Casanova Limited.

下一個問題來自摩根大通 Casanova Limited 的 Toby Ogg。

Perhaps just on the cloud revenue growth side. So the guidance implies continued acceleration into Q4. I know there's the Litmos divestiture, which is going to annualize. But I think you exited that in December, so probably not the full benefit there.

也許只是在雲端收入成長方面。因此，該指引意味著第四季將繼續加速。我知道 Litmos 的剝離將按年計算。但我認為你在 12 月就退出了，所以可能沒有獲得全部好處。

So I guess just with that in mind, Dominik, what are the drivers of that implied cloud revenue growth acceleration into Q4? And how confident are you in achieving that, I guess, just given the more difficult macro and also, I guess, the potential for transactional to be a headwind there as well?

因此，我想考慮到這一點，多明尼克，第四季度隱含的雲端收入成長加速的驅動因素是什麼？我想，考慮到更加困難的宏觀形勢，以及交易也可能成為那裡的逆風，您對實現這一目標有多大信心？

Maybe a little bit of granularity on some things you already mentioned, like the Litmos impact. I mean, for the full year, we think that Litmos will add a good percentage point of basically headwinds. So when you look at the kind of cumulative year-to-date, it's already kind of pulled down by that. So the real underlying growth rate is already very close to the 24% or so we need to fulfill the lower end of the guidance.

也許對您已經提到的一些事情有一點粒度，例如 Litmos 影響。我的意思是，對於全年來說，我們認為 Litmos 基本上會帶來很大的阻力。因此，當你看看今年迄今為止的累積情況時，你會發現它已經被拉低了。因此，實際的基本成長率已經非常接近我們需要達到指導下限的 24% 左右。

Now on top of that, there is, of course, the discussion about the transactional business where Q2 has already been difficult. We have been very slightly up, but marginally, Q3 was actually flattish or even very slightly down. So we have not seen much relief on that front. And that's another thing that's, of course, something we will not see as such a strong headwind from our perspective for quarters to come, but might be more temporary in nature.

當然，最重要的是，還有關於第二季度已經很困難的交易業務的討論。我們的業績略有上升，但第三季實際上持平，甚至略有下降。因此，我們在這方面並沒有看到太多緩解。當然，這是另一件事，從我們未來幾季的角度來看，我們不會將其視為如此強大的逆風，但本質上可能只是暫時的。

But when exactly that will happen is, of course, a little bit dependent on the macroeconomic environment. Logically, when you are in a soft environment, the first thing you do is cutting travel expenses, cutting contingent workforce. So that business has been very difficult. There are other parts in it, which are growing fast but the kind of decline, for instance, in contingent workforce has resulted in a flattish environment. So that's the acceleration we need.

但當然，這種情況具體何時發生在某種程度上取決於宏觀經濟環境。從邏輯上講，當你處於軟環境時，你要做的第一件事就是削減差旅費、削減臨時工。所以這個生意一直很辛苦。其中還有其他部分，雖然成長很快，但臨時勞動力的下降導致了環境的平淡。這就是我們需要的加速度。

I also want to remind you that even if you jump off the kind of low end of the range for the guidance for this year, which is EUR 14 billion with our 2025 guidance, we need about 24%. So you see that we're really on the cloud revenue trajectory depolluted for Litmos, depolluted for that kind of temporary headwind where we think that this will be more cyclical around that trend line, very much on track for that trajectory.

我還想提醒大家，即使跳出今年指導範圍的低端（我們的 2025 年指導為 140 億歐元），我們也需要大約 24%。所以你會看到，我們確實處於 Litmos 的雲端收入軌跡上，不受這種暫時逆風的污染，我們認為這將圍繞該趨勢線更具週期性，非常符合該軌跡。

And you also have to consider with regard to 2025 -- you have to consider that, especially the large transactions, they foresee a ramp. So when we are looking at the current cloud backlog of EUR 12 billion -- or for now, over EUR 12 billion ACV, obviously, there is a ramp included in the contracts, which are also going to help us now in the year.

你還必須考慮 2025 年——你必須考慮到，特別是大型交易，他們預計會出現成長。因此，當我們查看目前 120 億歐元的雲積壓訂單時，或目前超過 120 億歐元的 ACV 時，顯然，合約中包含了一個增量，這也將在今年對我們有所幫助。

Now that RISE is out there for 3 years, the ramp will now going up. And with that, with the adoption, of course, we will also going to see further cloud revenue acceleration in the years to come.

現在 RISE 已經推出 3 年了，坡道現在將會上升。當然，隨著採用，我們也將在未來幾年看到雲端收入進一步加速。

Next question is from the line of Adam Wood with Morgan Stanley & Co.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利公司的 Adam Wood。

Congratulations from me as well on the quarter. I wanted to go back to the AI topic. You've obviously announced the products there, given us some details. I think some of your competitors have come out and said, they feel that the AI copilots and so on really are just kind of table stakes in the back and they don't feel there's room to extract a lot more value for customers.

我也對本季表示祝賀。我想回到人工智慧這個主題。您顯然已經在那裡宣布了產品，並向我們提供了一些詳細資訊。我認為你的一些競爭對手已經站出來表示，他們認為人工智慧副駕駛等實際上只是後面的籌碼，他們認為沒有空間為客戶提取更多價值。

Could you talk a little bit about what's different in the SAP portfolio? Is it the data that you access to, the complexity of the processes, the value of the roles that you can automate further that would make you different in terms of being able to extract value on this versus some of your peers?

能談談 SAP 產品組合的差異嗎？您所訪問的資料、流程的複雜性、您可以進一步自動化的角色的價值是否會讓您在能夠從中提取價值方面與某些同行有所不同？

I mean thanks a lot, Adam, for the question. And look, I can give you an example on why SAP is so relevant in the business AI space. With our traditional use cases, which we have over 100, we actually, of course, develop great individual use cases. So for example, in procurement, AI was helping to source out of thousands of suppliers, the best supplier based on cost, on quality, in the future also on ESG data.

我的意思是非常感謝亞當提出這個問題。我可以舉一個例子來說明為什麼 SAP 在商業人工智慧領域如此重要。當然，對於我們擁有 100 多個傳統用例，我們實際上開發了出色的個人用例。例如，在採購方面，人工智慧正在幫助從數千家供應商中尋找最佳供應商，這些供應商基於成本、質量，未來還基於 ESG 數據。

With generative AI, the opportunities and the elements will significantly increase. Joule will be able to answer questions like, please help me to reduce the carbon footprint in my supply chain by 10% while making sure that my profit is not getting under pressure. Give me the suppliers, give me the suppliers where I can still deliver on time, but on the same time, also reduce my carbon footprint and keep my third-party cost to contingent cost actually at the same level.

有了生成式人工智慧，機會和要素將顯著增加。 Joule 將能夠回答這樣的問題：請幫助我將供應鏈中的碳足跡減少 10%，同時確保我的利潤不會受到壓力。給我供應商，給我仍然可以按時交貨的供應商，但同時也減少我的碳足跡，並使我的第三方成本與或有成本實際上保持在同一水平。

Because we can cross-correlate the data, we build this foundational data model in the neural network. And then with DataSphere, we can also enhance that with actually also unstructured data. Yesterday, I just also met Satya in Berlin. And he also -- I mean, Microsoft is extremely interested on how can we join forces to also further combine our data. And what is also very important in the B2B world, I already mentioned it. I mean, in the B2C, you can ask ChatGPT for a question for speech and you get a proposal for a speech. In the B2B world, accuracy and data quality is of utmost important.

因為我們可以交叉關聯數據，所以我們在神經網路中建立了這個基礎數據模型。然後，透過 DataSphere，我們也可以使用實際上的非結構化資料來增強這一點。昨天，我剛在柏林也見到了薩蒂亞。我的意思是，微軟對我們如何聯手進一步整合我們的資料非常感興趣。在 B2B 世界中同樣非常重要的一點我已經提到過。我的意思是，在 B2C 中，你可以問 ChatGPT 演講問題，然後你會得到演講提案。在 B2B 世界中，準確性和數據品質至關重要。

So all the work we did on BTP over the last 3 years to integrate, but also to harmonize our data model is extremely now paying off in high-quality data and is the foundation for SAP Business AI. And last but not least, you can ask Joule a question, but not every employee and every company should see your group P&L. So you need an authorization concept. And so this is also very important that we have the authorization layer for almost every business data in the company. And all of that is a good example why SAP will be so relevant in that space.

因此，過去 3 年我們在 BTP 上所做的所有工作（整合和協調我們的資料模型）現在在高品質資料方面取得了巨大的回報，並且是 SAP Business AI 的基礎。最後但並非最不重要的一點是，您可以問 Joule 一個問題，但並非每個員工和每個公司都應該看到您的集團損益表。所以你需要一個授權的概念。所以這一點也非常重要，我們對公司幾乎所有的業務資料都有授權層。所有這些都是 SAP 在該領域如此重要的一個很好的例子。

The next question is from the line of Mohammed Moawalla with Goldman Sachs International.

下一個問題來自高盛國際公司的穆罕默德·莫阿瓦拉。

Well done on the quarter. I had one question for Dominik, please. Your implied operating profit growth guidance implies sort of at the low end significant sort of decline. I'm just trying to understand around some of the cost dynamics what we should think about in Q4, in particular. And I know you alluded to sort of some of the changes in the sales capitalization. But also, is there anything on the kind of OpEx base that we should be mindful of in Q4?

本季做得很好。我有一個問題要問多明尼克。您隱含的營業利潤成長指引意味著低端的顯著下降。我只是想了解我們在第四季尤其應該考慮的一些成本動態。我知道您提到了銷售資本的一些變化。而且，在第四季的營運支出基礎上，我們是否應該注意什麼？

Yes, excellent question. I mean, it's clear from the numbers that remain to do in Q4 is kind of relatively manageable, it appears. And now what are the kind of elements which drive that.

是的，很好的問題。我的意思是，從第四季剩餘工作的數字來看，顯然是相對可控的。那麼驅動這現象的因素有哪些呢？

First of all, it's on the software side. We had a really a very mild decline in software in -- specially Q1 and Q3. I think Q2 was a little bit closer to normal. And actually, on average, we have been declining more slowly than, for instance, in the prior year. If you think about the prior year, we were down 39% constant currency. And now Q2, which was a more tipping quarter, in mid-20s, I think, if I recall correctly.

首先，是在軟體方面。我們的軟體確實出現了非常輕微的下降——特別是第一季和第三季。我認為第二季度有點接近正常。事實上，平均而言，我們的下降速度比前一年慢。如果你想想前一年，以固定匯率計算，我們下降了 39%。現在是第二季度，如果我沒記錯的話，在 20 多歲左右，這是一個更傾斜的季度。

So we think that Q4 will be probably in that order of magnitude, somewhere between these 2 data points. It's not quite clear. I mean, it's notoriously difficult to predict that. And I think it's also clear that the Q4 is the biggest quarter on licenses so it has a big disproportionate impact.

因此，我們認為第四季可能會處於這個數量級，介於這兩個數據點之間。還不太清楚。我的意思是，眾所周知，預測這一點非常困難。我認為很明顯第四季度是許可數量最多的季度，因此它產生了巨大的不成比例的影響。

And I think it's also -- there's some good news in this, which means that we can be commercially quite rigorous on the software side, and we really can aggressively push on the cloud side.

我認為這也有一些好消息，這意味著我們在軟體方面可以在商業上相當嚴格，而且我們確實可以在雲端方面積極推動。

Second point, I want to highlight is that we have added a net of 1,200 FTEs. So of course, they will hit the P&L in Q4 and will be basically full quarter effective there. You mentioned that kind of accelerated amortization of commissions that was still based on the software business where we see now the kind of shift to the cloud happening. That was a EUR 65 million ticket. By the way, we will see a similar order of magnitude in Q4. So that's another item I want to mention.

我想強調的第二點是，我們淨增加了 1,200 名 FTE。因此，當然，他們將在第四季度達到損益表，並且基本上將在整個季度中有效。您提到了那種仍然基於軟體業務的佣金加速攤銷，我們現在看到正在發生向雲端的轉變。那是一張價值 6500 萬歐元的門票。順便說一句，我們將在第四季度看到類似的數量級。這是我想提的另一件事。

And then I think it's very important to really look at the gross margin. It has evolved very strongly in Q3. But I want to say it's always a little dangerous to look at any single quarter. If you want to have a more stable estimate about how the gross margin is evolving, take the first 9 months. And you see that we basically expanded gross margin year-on-year by about 2.5 -- or 2.4 percentage points.

然後我認為真正關注毛利率非常重要。它在第三季度發展得非常強勁。但我想說，看任何一個季度總是有點危險。如果您想對毛利率的變動有更穩定的估計，請以前 9 個月為例。你會看到，我們的毛利率基本上比去年同期成長了約 2.5 個百分點，即 2.4 個百分點。

Now in the 2.4 percentage points, there is, I'd say, almost 1 percentage point of tailwind from the famous cloud conversion program. So we had costs incurred still in the prior year, which is now gradually out of the equation. So that gives us a boost. So they kind of still underlying continuous improvement without that one strike project, so the cloud convergence project is more about 1.5%, which, by the way, again, is putting us exactly on the trajectory for the 2025 cloud gross profit guidance.

現在，在 2.4 個百分點中，我想說，著名的雲端轉換程式幾乎帶來了 1 個百分點的推動力。因此，我們在前一年仍然產生了成本，現在已經逐漸不考慮了。這給了我們動力。因此，他們仍然在沒有那種一擊即中的項目的情況下進行持續改進，因此雲融合項目更多約為1.5%，順便說一句，這再次使我們完全處於2025 年雲毛利潤指導的軌道上。

So if you think about that kind of boost being fully harvested, if you take these 4 elements I mentioned together, this is explaining why we have been more prudent on the Q4 and year-on-year growth. I think it's very much in line with what also Luka has guided already a year ago, also driven on the year-on-year comparison by the Litmos divestiture, which was not there -- will not be there in Q4.

因此，如果你考慮到這種提振已經完全收穫，如果你把我提到的這四個要素放在一起，這就解釋了為什麼我們對第四季和同比成長更加謹慎。我認為這與 Luka 一年前的指導非常一致，也是由 Litmos 剝離推動的同比比較推動的，而 Litmos 剝離並不存在，也不會在第四季度出現。

The next question is from the line of Frederic Boulan with Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Frederic Boulan。

If I can ask a question around the cloud margin, so a bit follow up on the previous one. So we saw some slight improvement in SaaS -- the PaaS, actually in Infrastructure Service improved quite strongly. If you can discuss what's been driving that and some further benefits to expect from the optimization program. I think, Dominik, you seem to say that we've kind of done the work now so it's going to be smoother going forward.

如果我可以問一個有關雲端邊際的問題，那麼請對上一個問題進行一些跟進。因此，我們看到 SaaS（PaaS）方面有一些細微的改進，實際上在基礎設施服務方面的改進相當強勁。您是否可以討論一下是什麼推動了這一點，以及優化計劃帶來的一些進一步的好處。我想，多米尼克，你似乎說我們現在已經完成了工作，所以接下來的工作會更加順利。

And if I may ask a follow-up around S/4. So could we get a bit of an update on where you are on the momentum in migration of those large complex customers? I mean, you mentioned some of those, but if you could share a bit of an update on where you are on S/4, S/4 Cloud adoption and in particular, for those large contracts and large migrations, that would be great.

我可以詢問 S/4 的後續狀況嗎？那麼，我們能否了解一下您在這些大型複雜客戶遷移動能的最新情況？我的意思是，您提到了其中一些，但如果您可以分享一些有關 S/4、S/4 雲採用情況的最新信息，特別是對於那些大型合約和大型遷移，那就太好了。

On PaaS and the cloud gross margin, let me take that first. And then, Scott, you can take the question around the ERP and the S/4 momentum on the conversion of our LE customers.

關於 PaaS 和雲毛利率，我先來談談這一點。然後，Scott，您可以提出有關 ERP 和 S/4 對我們 LE 客戶轉換的推動力的問題。

I mean, on PaaS, I mean, BTP is an extremely scalable platform. It's a native cloud platform. And of course, we are continuously working and this is not only since we did the cloud conversion program. We actually also continuously work on TCO. For example, HANA Cloud, so a new cloud database, which gives us enormous scale out capabilities, which is extremely important, not only for our TCO by the way, but also for our large customers who actually can enjoy this new database in the cloud.

我的意思是，在 PaaS 上，BTP 是一個極具可擴展性的平台。它是一個原生雲端平台。當然，我們正在不斷努力，這不僅僅是因為我們進行了雲端轉換計畫。事實上，我們也在持續致力於 TCO。例如，HANA Cloud，一個新的雲端資料庫，它為我們提供了巨大的橫向擴展能力，這非常重要，不僅對於我們的TCO 來說，而且對於我們真正可以在雲端中享受這個新資料庫的大客戶來說。

Second, we're also innovating with AWS on [ARM]. Yes, so we also embed further new technology. We are constantly also updating the capabilities within the database. And you know that we still have a few ideas also for the year to come, and the platform is now the underlying platform for all of our business application. So it's the foundation. So it's really important for us to also have a scalable platform there.

其次，我們也在 [ARM] 上利用 AWS 進行創新。是的，所以我們也嵌入了更多新技術。我們也不斷更新資料庫內的功能。您知道，我們對於來年仍然有一些想法，該平台現在是我們所有業務應用程式的基礎平台。所以這是基礎。因此，擁有一個可擴展的平台對我們來說非常重要。

Scott, over to you for the ERP question.

Scott，現在輪到你來回答 ERP 問題了。

Yes. So I guess, the -- I mentioned it before, but let me give you a bit more color. Customers aren't just moving to ERP cloud, and I mentioned this, but it's really important to understand in terms of the future for us, but also for our customers. They're not just going to S/4HANA Cloud. They're transforming their business. They're making it lean. They're getting a clean core. They're able to optimize the way they run their process. That allows them then -- to then build and expand and then use that capability, including generative AI optimize.

是的。所以我想，我之前提到過，但讓我給你更多的色彩。客戶不僅僅是遷移到 ERP 雲，我也提到過這一點，但了解我們以及我們的客戶的未來非常重要。他們不僅僅選擇 S/4HANA Cloud。他們正在改變他們的業務。他們正在讓它變得精益。他們得到了一個乾淨的核心。他們能夠優化運行流程的方式。這使得他們能夠建立、擴展並使用該功能，包括生成式人工智慧優化。

So these are on the large end customers, multiyear programs, multiyear initiatives, which we see from a financial point of view in our total cloud backlog and that and what you see in the ramp that Christian mentioned in his opening. But then even on our midsized customers, doing these big changes to their business is the foundation for them the innovation in the future.

因此，這些是關於大型最終客戶、多年計劃、多年計劃，我們從財務角度來看我們的雲積壓總量，以及克里斯蒂安在開場白中提到的斜坡。但即使對於我們的中型客戶，對他們的業務進行這些重大改變也是他們未來創新的基礎。

So I guess what you will see there with a large end, and Dominik also mentioned opening this call that we had a large proportion of customers of 5 million plus in booking value in ACV contributing to the overall performance. That gives us the platform for customers to do a multiyear transformation of their business, leveraging our innovation, and they will weave in generative AI into that as we go forward because it's embedded, including our recent announcement of the premium offering that we launched a couple of days ago.

所以我猜你會看到一個很大的結果，Dominik 也提到在這次電話會議中我們有很大一部分 ACV 預訂價值超過 500 萬的客戶對整體業績做出了貢獻。這為我們提供了一個平台，讓客戶能夠利用我們的創新對其業務進行多年的轉型，隨著我們的發展，他們將把生成式人工智慧融入其中，因為它是嵌入式的，包括我們最近宣布推出的高級產品幾天前的。

And maybe one further example. I mean, take for example, Exxon. Exxon also decided to go with RISE for SAP. I mean, for Exxon, it's actually not differentiating to, one, the ERP landscape further on prem and invest into really commodity IT activities. What is way more differentiating is to say, let's move our system landscape into the hands of SAP and a hyperscaler and then build with our IT budget, more differentiating capabilities for commodity and trade for the new renewables business to also build a more resilient supply chain.

也許還有一個例子。我的意思是，以埃克森美孚為例。 Exxon 也決定選擇 RISE for SAP。我的意思是，對於埃克森美孚來說，它實際上並沒有區別於，第一，進一步部署 ERP 環境並投資於真正的商品 IT 活動。更具差異化的方式是說，讓我們將系統環境移交給SAP 和超大規模提供商，然後利用我們的IT 預算，為新的可再生能源業務構建更具差異化的商品和貿易能力，同時構建更具彈性的供應鏈。

And so the IT budget creates way more value if you can focus more on build and less on run. And the BTP is now their platform of choice to also extend the core because all of these capabilities, what I just mentioned, they need to be, of course, seamlessly integrated into the core. And here we go again, this is the BTP. The BTP is the integration and the extension layer. The same is true for BMW and for many others LE customers in the meantime as they have selected to go with RISE with SAP.

因此，如果您能夠更專注於建置而不是運行，那麼 IT 預算會創造更多價值。 BTP 現在也是他們擴展核心的選擇平台，因為我剛才提到的所有這些功能當然需要無縫整合到核心中。我們又來了，這就是 BTP。 BTP是整合和擴充層。同時，BMW和許多其他 LE 客戶也是如此，因為他們選擇了 RISE 和 SAP。

The next question comes from the line of Kirk Materne with Evercore Partners.

下一個問題來自 Evercore Partners 的 Kirk Materne。

Congrats on the quarter. I was wondering -- maybe this one might be for Scott. But I was just kind of curious what you're seeing in the Americas market. Obviously, really strong quarters and acceleration in Europe and Asia Pac on a constant currency basis. America was down slightly Q-over-Q.

恭喜本季。我想知道——也許這個是給斯科特的。但我只是有點好奇你在美洲市場看到了什麼。顯然，以固定匯率計算，歐洲和亞太地區的季度表現確實強勁且加速。美國環比略有下降。

But I was just kind of curious, is that just market dynamics, macro? Is there anything sort of more competitive there going on? I was just kind of curious if you could add a little bit more color on what's going on in that particular region?

但我只是有點好奇，這只是宏觀市場動態嗎？那裡有什麼更具競爭力的事情發生嗎？我只是有點好奇你是否可以為那個特定地區正在發生的事情添加更多的色彩？

I'll answer this and, Christian, if you would want to add anything, please do so. So look, as you saw in the performance, we had a very balanced performance across the world. There is no doubt that the Americas and North America is our largest cloud market and also where a lot of the innovation that we're seeing around the world. And it is definitely a market that has the macroeconomic pressure.

我會回答這個問題，克里斯蒂安，如果您想添加任何內容，請添加。因此，正如您在表現中看到的那樣，我們在全球範圍內的表現非常平衡。毫無疑問，美洲和北美是我們最大的雲端市場，也是我們在世界各地看到的許多創新的地方。而這絕對是一個有宏觀經濟壓力的市場。

But I wouldn't reflect it as unique against other economies around the world. We see the same macroeconomic pressure points. I think what we are seeing in North America, though, is the combination of GROW and RISE. Those 2 become really important. The mid-market in North America looking where the smaller companies that are wanting to expand, but they need to do so really fast. They're not going to invest heavily into the technology migration. They need to be able to do so in a rapid way. And so the GROW offering has been really successful in markets like North America.

但我不會認為它與世界其他經濟體相比是獨一無二的。我們看到了相同的宏觀經濟壓力點。不過，我認為我們在北美看到的是成長和崛起的結合。這兩個變得非常重要。北美的中端市場正在尋找那些想要擴張的小公司，但他們需要非常快速地擴張。他們不會在技術遷移上投入大量資金。他們需要能夠快速做到這一點。因此，GROW 產品在北美等市場非常成功。

And at the upper end, we always recognize that even in the best of times, but right now, they're taking multiyear major investment journeys with us. So the way that the market is working there is -- the question is not if they move to RISE, it's how and when -- and that program. And that's where we see those large bookings.

在高端，我們始終認識到，即使在最好的時期，但現在，他們正在與我們一起進行多年的重大投資之旅。因此，市場的運作方式是——問題不在於他們是否轉向RISE，而在於如何以及何時——以及該計劃。這就是我們看到大量預訂的地方。

So look, it continues to be a market, we're highly competitive and high expectations, but we remain strong in the foundation of what we deliver to, around the world, is equally is true in North America.

所以看，這仍然是一個市場，我們競爭激烈，期望很高，但我們在向世界各地提供服務的基礎上仍然很強大，在北美同樣如此。

Christian, if you want to add.

克里斯蒂安，如果你想補充的話。

Well said, Scott. I mean, maybe just one point more. I mean the transactional business of Concur, Fieldglass and Ariba is, of course -- also the dominant share is in the United States as these companies also were founded there and have most of their customer base there.

說得好，斯科特。我的意思是，也許只多一分。我的意思是，Concur、Fieldglass 和 Ariba 的交易業務當然也在美國佔據主導地位，因為這些公司也是在那裡成立的，並在那裡擁有大部分客戶群。

So -- and as Dominik also outlined, to be seen, how business develops in Q4 but I was just last week in SAP Spend Connect. And when I remember it back in 3 years -- 3 years ago, these products were completely different products and different legacy stacks on different platforms.

因此，Dominik 也概述了第四季度的業務發展情況，但我上週剛在 SAP Spend Connect 中進行了概述。當我記得三年前——三年前，這些產品是完全不同的產品，在不同的平台上有不同的遺留堆疊。

And when you see now our intelligence spend portfolio and you just look at Source to Pay, you wouldn't even see which product is it. It's all about the end-to-end business process. It's a beautiful UX. The team did a wonderful job. And of course, there is now some macroeconomic headwind to be seen how this will develop in Q4 on -- for next year and for the years to come, I feel much better from a product experience perspective than where we have been 3 years ago.

當您現在看到我們的情報支出組合並且僅查看“支付來源”時，您甚至看不到它是哪個產品。這都是關於端到端的業務流程。這是一個美麗的用戶體驗。該團隊做得非常出色。當然，現在存在一些宏觀經濟逆風，我們可以看到第四季度的情況將如何發展——對於明年和未來幾年，從產品體驗的角度來看，我感覺比三年前要好得多。

The next question comes from the line of James Goodman with Barclays Capital.

下一個問題來自詹姆斯·古德曼與巴克萊資本的對話。

I wanted to ask you just on the implied guidance also a bit around the revenues ex cloud. I think like EBIT, it looks pretty conservative throughout the range. I mean, even taking into account, the comments that you've made around the anticipated Q4 license trajectory. So maintenance has been down, I think, 1% only 3 quarters in a row. Why should we see that certainly sort of decelerating in Q4?

我想問您關於隱含的指導，以及有關雲端運算收入的一些資訊。我認為與息稅前利潤一樣，它在整個範圍內看起來相當保守。我的意思是，即使考慮到您對預期第四季度許可證軌跡所做的評論。因此，我認為維護費用僅連續三個季度下降了 1%。為什麼我們會看到第四季成長率明顯放緩？

And maybe you can extend the answer to some commentary around maintenance for next year. I think we've now seen that you can raise prices up to 5% next year. So should that offer sufficient support to maintenance to keep a sort of similar trajectory?

也許您可以將答案擴展到有關明年維護的一些評論。我認為我們現在已經看到明年可以將價格提高最多 5%。那麼這應該為維護提供足夠的支援以保持類似的軌跡嗎？

Yes. I think the key point is not really the maintenance, but as you say, the licenses where there's more volatility. And yes, we have been prudent on that front. Q4 is, by far, the biggest quarter in that context. I think it's not wise to extrapolate Q1, Q3 into Q4. I think it also gives us an opportunity to send a clear signal that there is commercial discipline on these license deals because our strategic trajectory is towards the cloud. And this is why I think this assumption makes sense.

是的。我認為關鍵點並不是維護，而是正如你所說，許可證的波動性更大。是的，我們在這方面一直很謹慎。迄今為止，第四季是這方面最大的季度。我認為將 Q1、Q3 外推到 Q4 是不明智的。我認為這也讓我們有機會發出一個明確的訊號，即這些許可交易存在商業紀律，因為我們的策略軌跡是面向雲端運算。這就是為什麼我認為這個假設是有道理的。

Now again, it's notoriously difficult to predict. So there can be a wide range of outcomes around that kind of range I have alluded to. And this is why we kept the range quite open on that front.

現在，眾所周知，預測是非常困難的。因此，在我提到的範圍內可能會出現各種各樣的結果。這就是為什麼我們在這方面保持相當開放的範圍。

Yes. And on cloud revenue, I mean, I also remember, I mean, we have put out there a 2025 guidance 3 years ago, and we were unaware around what exactly will happen during COVID. We, of course, have not foreseen the exit of Russia. Now we are talking about a high inflation environment and some macroeconomic challenges and still we keep our 2025 guidance.

是的。關於雲端收入，我的意思是，我還記得，我的意思是，我們在 3 年前就已經發布了 2025 年指導，但我們不知道在新冠疫情期間到底會發生什麼。當然，我們沒有預見到俄羅斯的退出。現在我們正在談論高通膨環境和一些宏觀經濟挑戰，但我們仍然保留 2025 年的指導。

And so I'm actually very happy with the underlying strengths of our portfolio. But again, also to be seen how Q4 will now develop from a transactional revenue standpoint. But I find it remarkable the underlying strengths of the portfolio despite all of these headwinds, what we have seen over the last years, I have to say. I mean, Russia, there will not be a comeback and still we are maintaining our guidance for 2025.

因此，我實際上對我們產品組合的潛在優勢非常滿意。但同樣，從交易收入的角度來看，第四季將如何發展也有待觀察。但我不得不說，儘管存在所有這些不利因素，但我發現該投資組合的潛在優勢非常顯著，這是我們在過去幾年中所看到的。我的意思是，俄羅斯不會捲土重來，但我們仍維持 2025 年的指引。

The next question is from the line of Michael J. Briest with UBS Limited.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS Limited) 的 Michael J. Briest。

My congratulations as well for the momentum. Maybe a little teaser on next year. I mean, your revenue outlook is driven by the cloud, it's pretty predictable and hopefully and fairly linear. The maintenance, you've given clear sort of indication on 2025. Is there any reason we shouldn't think that profit and cash flow grow in a fairly linear progression between here and 2025? Is there any factors we should be thinking about that mean that that's unlikely to be the case?

我也對這種勢頭表示祝賀。也許明年會有一些預告片。我的意思是，你的收入前景是由雲端驅動的，它是相當可預測的，並且希望是相當線性的。維護方面，您對 2025 年給出了明確的指示。我們有什麼理由不認為利潤和現金流在此時到 2025 年之間呈相當線性的增長？我們應該考慮哪些因素顯示情況不太可能發生？

And then around stock-based compensation, I noticed that the charge increased a little bit at the low end. And I know you're thinking internally about how you treat that going forward. Is there any more light you can shed on whether that's still a charge that should be treated as an exceptional item in your view? Or maybe it's now a more predictable number and something you can bring into the adjusted margin?

然後圍繞著基於股票的薪酬，我注意到費用在低端有所增加。我知道您正在內部思考未來如何對待這一問題。您是否可以進一步說明，在您看來，這項指控是否仍應被視為特殊項目？或者也許現在是一個更可預測的數字，您可以將其納入調整後的利潤中？

So maybe I have a stab at 2024, first, as a reminder, we guide 2024 and January of 2024. So we have an ambition for '25. And if you think about what are the priorities in the current planning process, which will then, of course, drive the budget for 2024, I'd say it's, of course, derisking 2025 to make sure that it's really solid and deliver to that ambition.

所以也許我會嘗試在 2024 年，首先，作為提醒，我們指導 2024 年和 2024 年 1 月。所以我們對 25 年有一個野心。如果你考慮一下當前規劃過程中的優先事項是什麼，這當然會推動 2024 年的預算，我想說的是，當然，要消除 2025 年的風險，以確保它確實可靠並實現這一目標志向。

And secondly, I think we will also start to put more focus on the question, how can we kind of boost earnings growth beyond 2025. It's all nice to think about 2025, but the future is actually in the second half of the decade. And please bear with us til that kind of date in January when we have matured that planning process to really give you then a solid guidance for the year. I don't want to kind of preempt that at this point of the year.

其次，我認為我們也將開始更多地關注這個問題，即我們如何在 2025 年之後提高盈利增長。考慮 2025 年一切都很好，但未來實際上是在這個十年的後半段。請耐心等待，直到一月份的那個日期，屆時我們的規劃流程已經成熟，以便真正為您提供今年的可靠指導。我不想在今年的這個時候搶得先機。

Yes. And then to add to Dominik point, I mean, Q4 is also in the cloud our biggest quarter from an order entry perspective, and that really can also create really still some swing on the cloud revenue one way for next year. And so there are more news to come in January.

是的。然後補充多明尼克的觀點，我的意思是，從訂單輸入的角度來看，第四季度也是我們在雲端領域最大的季度，這確實也可能會給明年的雲端收入帶來一些波動。因此，一月還會有更多消息。

So now on the second point, I have noted charge. So sorry, can you just help me out on that -- it's stock-based -- sorry stock-based charge.

現在關於第二點，我已經注意到了電荷。很抱歉，您能幫我解決一下嗎？這是基於股票的費用，抱歉基於股票的費用。

The charge, I think, increased a little bit on the low end...

我認為，低端的費用增加了一點...

Yes, yes. So the stock-based compensation, I mean, yes, given that we have a higher share of equity settled stock-based compensation, the volatility induced by the share price movements in that expense will go down. That's the one thing I can say. The other thing we clearly said is that we really want to kind of keep that number steady to dilute it somewhat as a percent of revenues over the coming years. And there is no change to that guidance that we really try to make it more stable.

是的是的。因此，我的意思是，基於股票的薪酬，是的，鑑於我們擁有較高比例的股權結算股票薪酬，該費用中股價變動引起的波動將會下降。這是我能說的一件事。我們明確表示的另一件事是，我們確實希望保持這個數字穩定，以在未來幾年將其稀釋為收入的百分比。我們確實試圖使其更加穩定，但該指導方針並沒有改變。

And then as a consequence, indeed, it would be easier to absorb it kind of in the non-IFRS operating results. We are clearly seeing the stock-based compensation not as funny money, but a real expense. It's real value transferred from shareholders to employees, basically. And that's why anything to embark it in all our steering is really a priority of the company. But again, in terms of 2024, we will let you know how we deal with this in more detail in January.

因此，實際上，將其吸收到非 IFRS 營運結果中會更容易。我們清楚地看到以股票為基礎的薪酬不是可笑的錢，而是真正的支出。基本上，這是從股東轉移到員工的實際價值。這就是為什麼在我們所有的指導中開展任何事情都是公司的首要任務。但同樣，就 2024 年而言，我們將在 1 月讓您了解我們如何更詳細地處理此問題。

The next question is from the line of Chandramouli Sriraman with Stifel, Nicolaus Europe Limited.

下一個問題來自 Nicolaus Europe Limited 的 Chandramouli Sriraman 和 Stifel。

Congrats from my side as well. Just one on the amortization period change. I'm just wondering from a business sense, what it means for the end of support of R3 and how does this fit in with the license strength that you have seen in '23?

我這邊也表示祝賀。只有一項關於攤銷期限的變更。我只是從商業角度想知道，R3 支援的終止意味著什麼，這與您在 23 年看到的許可證強度有何關係？

I'll have to say that again. Okay. So it's an accounting policy, which is applied steadily, and it's driven actually by forward-looking assumptions as to the kind of lifetime of the support revenues. Now you should understand it's not a very linear calculation. So there are some factors that can make it somewhat volatile. And when we did the kind of, I'd say, first sneak preview of our planning here, we felt it's not prudent to keep the long 9-year period.

我不得不再說一次。好的。因此，這是一項穩定應用的會計政策，並且實際上是由有關支持收入生命週期的前瞻性假設所驅動的。現在您應該明白這不是一個非常線性的計算。因此，有一些因素可能會導致其波動。我想說，當我們在這裡第一次預覽我們的計劃時，我們覺得保留漫長的 9 年期限並不明智。

By the way, there are some assumptions about renewals and they are embarked. So I wouldn't read too much into it, except for that we felt that at this point in time on that commission, given that we want to clearly push from on-prem into the cloud, and that we see the bigger uptake in RISE, there is probably a shorter amortization period required, and this is what we've reflected.

順便說一句，有一些關於續約的假設，而且它們已經開始。因此，我不會對此進行太多解讀，除了我們認為在該委員會的這個時間點上，考慮到我們希望明確地從本地部署到雲端，並且我們看到 RISE 的採用率更大，可能需要更短的攤銷期，這就是我們所反映的。

I also want to highlight, if you may ask that this will not have a material impact on 2025 because by then, we will also benefit of having kind of taken less capitalization and it kind of then should be breakeven, so to speak. So worries on that front, I think, for 2025. It does weigh, as I mentioned already, on Q3 and will weigh also on Q4.

我還想強調，如果你可能會問，這不會對 2025 年產生實質影響，因為到那時，我們還將受益於資本減少，可以說應該實現損益平衡。因此，我認為，對於 2025 年，這方面的擔憂是存在的。正如我已經提到的，它確實會對第三季產生影響，也會對第四季產生影響。

And with regard to the software momentum. Look, the end of maintenance is coming for us, for our ECC customers. And also for the older releases of S/4HANA on-prem. Nevertheless, there is a maintenance commitment out there until 2040 for our mainstream S/4HANA customers and this will stay, but we will definitely not move further the end of maintenance for the other releases as we have to, of course, also focus on the innovation in the cloud and deliver this to our customers in a natural way.

關於軟體的勢頭。看，對我們、對我們的 ECC 客戶來說，維護即將結束。也適用於舊版的 S/4HANA On-Prem。儘管如此，我們的主流 S/4HANA 客戶仍然有到 2040 年的維護承諾，這一承諾將會保留，但我們絕對不會進一步結束其他版本的維護，因為我們當然還必須關注雲端創新並以自然的方式將其交付給我們的客戶。

And when you look at the softer number, of course, it can fluctuate quarter-by-quarter. It's onetime license revenue but you can also see the deals we are doing, probably majority comes out of the regulated industries where customers are also still growing and they need more licenses, and this is the type of business which we are still closing.

當然，當你觀察較疲軟的數字時，它可能會逐季度波動。這是一次性許可證收入，但您也可以看到我們正在做的交易，可能大部分來自受監管的行業，這些行業的客戶仍在增長，他們需要更多許可證，而這正是我們仍在關閉的業務類型。

Scott, did I say it right?

史考特，我說得對嗎？

Yes, you did, Christian. And it's actually a really important point. You're not seeing a decline on the cloud and our RISE performance despite the software, and that is a good sign. That's partly because of the segments that are -- and you mentioned that on the regulated industries. And also companies that are topping up their existing license, where they're growing or expanding.

是的，你做到了，克里斯蒂安。這其實是非常重要的一點。儘管有軟體，但您並沒有看到雲端和我們的 RISE 效能下降，這是一個好兆頭。這部分是因為您提到了受監管行業的細分市場。還有那些正在補充現有許可證、正在發展或擴張的公司。

So the outlook doesn't have a bearing or a weighting on the cloud side other than to Dominik's point that we continue to drive and build the future on a cloud as a part of our strategic priority and our customers will continue to do that at scale whilst managing their software estate in the short term.

因此，除了多明尼克的觀點之外，前景對雲端方面沒有影響或權重，即我們將繼續推動和建設雲上的未來，作為我們戰略重點的一部分，我們的客戶將繼續大規模地這樣做同時在短期內管理他們的軟體資產。

The next question is from the line of Johannes Schaller with Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的約翰內斯‧夏勒 (Johannes Schaller)。

Christian, thank you for providing a bit of detail on the AI side from a technical and functionality perspective. I wanted to ask a bit on pricing. I mean, you said on the last call, you talked about a 30% pricing uplift potentially with AI features or maybe, call it, a 30% higher revenue opportunity. Now 3 months later, can you talk a little bit about the feedback you're getting on this pricing strategy from your customers?

Christian，感謝您從技術和功能的角度提供了有關人工智慧的一些細節。我想問一下價格。我的意思是，您在上次電話會議上表示，您談到了人工智慧功能可能帶來 30% 的定價提升，或者也許可以稱之為收入提高 30% 的機會。現在 3 個月過去了，您能談談您從客戶那裡得到的關於此定價策略的回饋嗎？

And also, just in terms of how we should think about these AI revenues coming in. I take that the R&D is pretty much in the run rate. But what we see in the field with some other AI offerings maybe an initial phase of some customization, some training with proprietary data of your customers, some costs that are coming in initially. How should we envisage the initial AI revenues? Will it be fairly profitable right away? Or will there also be maybe some additional costs upfront?

而且，就我們應該如何看待這些人工智慧收入而言。我認為研發幾乎在運行率中。但我們在該領域看到的其他一些人工智慧產品可能是一些客製化的初始階段，有些使用客戶專有數據的培訓，以及最初產生的一些成本。我們該如何設想最初的人工智慧收入？馬上就能獲得相當可觀的利潤嗎？或者可能還會有一些額外的預付費用？

Yes. Let me take it step by step. I mean on the product engineering side, we are not doing only in our earnings late night. We're also doing some engineering sessions late night. And I just looked last week at the overall architecture, and the way how we actually -- why we are so confident also with regard to the consumption and the cost of running the architecture of business AI is we are building the foundational data model.

是的。讓我一步一步來。我的意思是，在產品工程方面，我們不僅在深夜的盈利中做事。我們還在深夜進行一些工程會議。我上週剛研究了整體架構，以及我們實際上如何——為什麼我們對運行業務人工智慧架構的消耗和成本如此有信心——我們正在建立基礎資料模型。

So for us, it's key that we really infuse now all of our data in this neural network and that we have a knowledge graph, which then can find the wide data depending on the kind of analytical question or task activity, what the end user has.

因此，對我們來說，關鍵是我們現在真正將所有數據注入到這個神經網路中，並且我們有一個知識圖，然後它可以根據分析問題或任務活動的類型、最終用戶擁有的內容找到廣泛的數據。

On the LLM side, so the large language model, we actually partner. We partner with a lot of players to also offer Joule around the globe. And then with regard to the cost, of course, these modules are extremely hardware intensive. But what we are going to do is we use our existing macro commitments with hyperscalers so we consume it out of that. And given now with RISE, we are the biggest operations partner for our customers, also the LE customers. So we are running billions of workloads.

在法學碩士方面，所以在大型語言模型方面，我們實際上是合作夥伴。我們與許多玩家合作，在全球範圍內提供 Joule。當然，就成本而言，這些模組是非常密集的硬體。但我們要做的是，利用我們現有的對超大規模企業的宏觀承諾，以便我們從中消費它。現在有了 RISE，我們就成為了我們的客戶以及 LE 客戶的最大營運合作夥伴。所以我們正在運行數十億的工作負載。

So of course, that also benefits us so that we now don't need to invest in a ton of hardware, but really also can use our existing commitments. On the commercial model, we launched now in the meantime, the RISE premium offering. And yes, the premium offering, premium price, but of course, customer first. So we really looked at the value, so you find sustainability capabilities in there. Advanced finance capabilities, cash flow optimization. We asked first customers who actually can improve the cash flow by 2% or 3% by better payment terms, et cetera, et cetera. And on top, we have AI. So it's a real premium package with real value, and we see actually positive customer feedback for those ones who actually are our first customers.

當然，這也使我們受益，因此我們現在不需要投資大量硬件，但實際上也可以利用我們現有的承諾。在商業模式上，我們現在同時推出了 RISE 高級產品。是的，優質的產品、優質的價格，但當然，客戶至上。所以我們真正關注了價值，所以你會發現其中的永續性能力。先進的財務能力，現金流優化。我們詢問了第一批客戶，他們實際上可以透過更好的付款條件等將現金流改善 2% 或 3%。最重要的是，我們有人工智慧。因此，這是一個真正具有真正價值的優質套餐，我們看到那些實際上是我們第一批客戶的客戶實際上給予了積極的回饋。

And then second, let's not forget, we're also offering AI embedded in our products with a consumption-based pricing. So you don't have to go for the premium package all at once, but you can also consume AI -- business AI as part of our solution in a pure consumption-based pricing model. So we give customers choice, which I feel is the right way to go.

其次，我們不要忘記，我們還在我們的產品中提供嵌入人工智慧的服務，並採用基於消費的定價。因此，您不必立即購買高級套餐，但您也可以使用人工智慧——商業人工智慧作為我們純粹基於消費的定價模型解決方案的一部分。所以我們給客戶選擇，我認為這是正確的做法。

The final question comes from the line of Castillo-Bernaus or Ben with BNP Paribas.

最後一個問題來自卡斯蒂略-貝爾瑙斯（Castillo-Bernaus）或本（Ben）與法國巴黎銀行（BNP Paribas）的血統。

Just one question on the free cash flow, I guess, in the full year guidance. It looks like you're running comfortably on track there. It's up close to 30% year-to-date. It would imply that Q4 free cash flow would be down year-over-year. I know we've talked about a couple of one-offs, but, Dominik, if there's anything specific you could call out there just to justify that.

我想，在全年指導中，只有一個關於自由現金流的問題。看起來你在那兒的跑道上跑得很舒服。今年迄今已上漲近 30%。這意味著第四季自由現金流將年減。我知道我們已經討論過一些一次性的事情，但是，多米尼克，如果有什麼具體的事情，你可以在那裡指出來證明這一點。

And I know related to that, the topic of perhaps unwinding some of the extra factoring that was done last year had come up in conversations previously. Is that still on the agenda currently?

我知道與此相關的是，也許取消去年完成的一些額外保理業務的主題已經在先前的對話中出現過。目前這還在議程上嗎？

Yes. I mean cash flow is, of course, because of the sometimes volatility in some payments from customers' -- KPI, which is really difficult to predict at the year-end. But you mentioned some of the components already. What certainly is on the agenda to make sure that come 2025, there is a clean underlying free cash flow. We always said the EUR 7.5 billion at that point in time should be clean.

是的。我的意思是現金流當然是因為客戶的某些付款有時會波動——KPI，這在年底確實很難預測。但您已經提到了一些組件。確保到 2025 年，有乾淨的基礎自由現金流肯定是議程上的事情。我們總是說當時的 75 億歐元應該是乾淨的。

We are tracking well. There are, however, some phasing topics, so we have not updated the guidance for good reasons. And now how exactly that will pan out after we have seen all the receipts of payments at the end, we will tell you, of course, in the end, but I'm not expecting any wild surprises on that front. So we are on a very good trajectory, as you have said yourself, on the free cash flow side.

我們追蹤得很好。然而，有一些分階段的主題，因此我們有充分的理由沒有更新指南。現在，在我們看到最後的所有付款收據後，我們最終會告訴你，但我不希望在這方面出現任何意外。因此，正如您自己所說，在自由現金流方面，我們正處於非常良好的軌道上。

Thank you, Ben. And with that, we will conclude the call. So thank you. This concludes our call for today. Thanks for joining.

謝謝你，本。至此，我們將結束通話。所以謝謝。我們今天的呼籲到此結束。感謝您的加入。

Thanks a lot.

多謝。

Have a nice evening. Bye-bye.

祝你今晚愉快。再見。