SAP SE (SAP) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome, and thank you for joining the SAP Q4 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to Anthony Coletta, Chief Investor Relations Officer. Please go ahead.

女士們，先生們，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎並感謝您加入 SAP Q4 收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）我現在想將會議轉交給首席投資者關係官 Anthony Coletta。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. With me on the call are CEO, Christian Klein; CFO, Luka Mucic; and Scott Russell, Head of Customer Success. On this call, we will discuss SAP's fourth quarter and full year results for 2022. You can find the deck supplementing today's call as well as our quarterly statement on our Investor Relations website.

大家早上好，感謝今天加入我們。和我一起打電話的是首席執行官克里斯蒂安克萊因;首席財務官 Luka Mucic；和客戶成功主管 Scott Russell。在這次電話會議上，我們將討論 SAP 2022 年第四季度和全年業績。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到補充今天電話會議的資料以及我們的季度聲明。

During this call, we'll make forward-looking statements which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to materially differ. Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including but not limited to the risk factors section of SAP's annual report on Form 20-F for 2021.

在此次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，即對未來事件的預測、預測或其他陳述。這些陳述基於當前的預期和假設，這些預期和假設存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果和結果出現重大差異。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多信息，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括但不限於 SAP 2021 年 20-F 表格年度報告中的風險因素部分。

Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS year-on-year at constant currencies. The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS.

除非另有說明，否則本次電話會議上的所有數字均為非 IFRS，增長率和百分點變化均為非 IFRS 同比固定貨幣。我們提供的非 IFRS 財務指標不應被視為替代或優於根據 IFRS 編制的財務業績指標。

As you know, this is Luka's final earnings call with SAP. So before we start, I would like to take a moment to express my personal gratitude to you, Luka, for the close collaboration over the years for the great partnership and for the strong engagement with our investors. Congratulations on [27] several years with SAP and a fantastic ride. So it has been a distinct honor to work with you with lots of great memories. So I wish you nothing but the best of success. On behalf of the SAP family and the broader community, many thanks, Luka.

如您所知，這是 Luka 與 SAP 的最後一次財報電話會議。因此，在我們開始之前，我想花點時間向你表達我個人的感謝，盧卡，感謝你多年來的密切合作，建立了良好的合作夥伴關係，並與我們的投資者進行了密切的接觸。祝賀您在 SAP 工作了 [27] 年，一路順風順水。因此，與您一起工作是我莫大的榮幸，並留下了許多美好的回憶。所以我只祝你成功。我代表 SAP 家族和更廣泛的社區，非常感謝 Luka。

And with that, I'd like to turn the call over to Christian.

有了這個，我想把電話轉給克里斯蒂安。

Yes. Thank you, Anthony, and really well said, and thanks to all of you for joining us today, and welcome to 2023.

是的。謝謝你，安東尼，說得非常好，感謝大家今天加入我們，歡迎來到 2023 年。

This has been a good Q4 and a very important year for SAP, bringing to a close a year of great momentum. Our results in Q4 show once again a strong demand for our products and services, reflecting the confidence and trust companies have in working with SAP. Let me call out some key highlights for Q4.

今年第四季度表現不錯，對 SAP 來說也是非常重要的一年，結束了勢頭強勁的一年。我們在第四季度的業績再次表明對我們的產品和服務的強勁需求，反映了公司對與 SAP 合作的信心和信任。讓我指出第四季度的一些主要亮點。

Current cloud backlog exceeded EUR 12 billion, up 24% this quarter against a strong compare last year. Cloud revenue grew 22%, and cloud revenue for S/4HANA further accelerated once again, growing at 90%. We reached a tipping point in our transformation, as we returned to positive operating profit growth of 2% with a recurring revenue share of 76%, which is up 6 percentage points compared to Q4 2021.

當前的雲積壓訂單超過 120 億歐元，本季度比去年同期增長 24%。雲收入增長 22%，S/4HANA 的雲收入再次加速增長，達到 90%。我們達到了轉型的轉折點，營業利潤恢復了 2% 的正增長，經常性收入份額達到 76%，與 2021 年第四季度相比上升了 6 個百分點。

For 2023, this is setting us up to deliver expected accelerated total revenue and our promise of double-digit operating profit growth. For full year 2022, we delivered upon all our top and bottom line guidance, with cloud revenue growing 24%, up 5 percentage points from 19% in 2021. S/4HANA cloud revenue grew 79% for the full year. This is compared with 47% full year growth in 2021 and putting our S/4HANA cloud revenue to over EUR 2 billion for the first time ever.

到 2023 年，這將使我們能夠實現預期的加速總收入和我們對兩位數營業利潤增長的承諾。對於 2022 年全年，我們實現了所有頂線和底線指導，雲收入增長 24%，比 2021 年的 19% 高出 5 個百分點。S/4HANA 雲收入全年增長 79%。相比之下，2021 年全年增長 47%，我們的 S/4HANA 雲收入有史以來首次超過 20 億歐元。

Our cloud transformation is in full swing, and we have also built a highly resilient business with recurring revenue up from 75% in 2021 to 79% in 2022. I believe we will look back at 2022 as one of the most important years in our history.

我們的雲轉型如火如荼，我們還建立了一個高度彈性的業務，經常性收入從 2021 年的 75% 上升到 2022 年的 79%。我相信我們會回顧 2022 年，這是我們歷史上最重要的一年.

It is now over 2 years since we launched our strategy for transformation. We kept our promise and delivered despite the combined impact of 3 factors: our exit from Russia; our divestiture of Litmos; and the macroeconomic volatility facing the world. Why is our position so much stronger and SAP more relevant than ever? Because our RISE with SAP offering is much more than only a shift of our technology to the cloud. It is a true business transformation offering and we are focused on helping our customers solve their biggest challenges.

自我們推出轉型戰略以來，現已過去 2 年多。儘管受到三個因素的綜合影響，我們還是信守諾言並交付了：我們退出俄羅斯；我們剝離 Litmos；以及世界面臨的宏觀經濟波動。為什麼我們的地位如此強大，SAP 比以往任何時候都更重要？因為我們的 RISE with SAP 產品不僅僅是將我們的技術轉移到雲端。這是一個真正的業務轉型產品，我們專注於幫助我們的客戶解決他們最大的挑戰。

First, we enable companies to transform their existing business models and drive simplification and automation of their core business processes to offset inflation pressure. Second, SAP enables supply chain resilience. Supply chains are disrupted and need to be diversified as a result of the pandemic, geopolitical tensions and shifting business dynamics. We are helping our customers to build more resilient supply chains by connecting the suppliers and providers from the raw material provider to the manufacturer.

首先，我們幫助企業轉變現有的商業模式，推動核心業務流程的簡化和自動化，以抵消通脹壓力。其次，SAP 支持供應鏈彈性。由於大流行病、地緣政治緊張局勢和不斷變化的商業動態，供應鏈受到干擾，需要實現多元化。我們通過連接從原材料供應商到製造商的供應商和供應商，幫助我們的客戶建立更具彈性的供應鏈。

SAP's business network facilitated over $4.9 trillion of global commerce and EUR 730 million of B2B transactions in Q4 alone. Third, we are delivering the (inaudible) for every industry and every customer to measure ESG based on actual instead of average data, data that is fully orderable and based on industry-specific standards. With Scope 3 emission tracking across value chains via our network, and we will give our customers the ability to act by embedding sustainability into every business process and every company decision.

僅在第四季度，SAP 的業務網絡就促進了超過 4.9 萬億美元的全球商業交易和 7.3 億歐元的 B2B 交易。第三，我們正在為每個行業和每個客戶提供（聽不清），以根據實際數據而不是平均數據衡量 ESG，這些數據完全可訂購併基於行業特定標準。通過我們的網絡，通過跨價值鏈的範圍 3 排放跟踪，我們將使我們的客戶能夠通過將可持續性嵌入每個業務流程和每個公司決策中來採取行動。

RISE with SAP is at the heart of our strategy and is one of our most successful offerings ever. As stated, it is much more than a technical lift and shift to the cloud for our installed base. It is a true business transformation offering and around 50% of our customers are net new customers to SAP. I'd like to walk you through some of our RISE with SAP Q4 wins. As part of Merck's long-term collaboration with SAP, they will be using SAP S/4HANA cloud to help further digitize their business processes and make them more efficient, agile and adaptable. This will enable them to act to disruptions and capitalize on business opportunities more quickly. Porsche, the German sports car manufacturer has selected RISE with SAP to support their move to the cloud and maximize value through innovation and speed.

RISE with SAP 是我們戰略的核心，也是我們有史以來最成功的產品之一。如前所述，對於我們的已安裝基礎而言，這不僅僅是技術提升和向雲的轉移。這是一個真正的業務轉型產品，我們大約 50% 的客戶是 SAP 的淨新客戶。我想向您介紹我們在 SAP Q4 中取得的一些 RISE 勝利。作為默克與 SAP 長期合作的一部分，他們將使用 SAP S/4HANA 雲來幫助進一步數字化他們的業務流程，並使其更加高效、敏捷和適應性強。這將使他們能夠應對乾擾並更快地利用商機。德國跑車製造商保時捷選擇 RISE with SAP 來支持他們遷移到雲端，並通過創新和速度實現價值最大化。

PwC, one of the largest professional services networks in the world, significantly increased their user base for SAP S/4HANA public cloud. To support Lenovo's Group Everything as a Service transformation strategy, a fundamental change of their business model will -- they will be moving their digital core to S/4HANA cloud. Earlier this month, I had the pleasure of meeting with the leadership team of Al-Futtaim Group from the United Arab Emirates. They operate across a number of sectors and will be embarking on a full digital transformation powered by RISE with SAP.

PwC 是全球最大的專業服務網絡之一，顯著增加了 SAP S/4HANA 公共雲的用戶群。為了支持聯想集團的“一切即服務”轉型戰略，他們的業務模式將發生根本性變化——他們將把數字核心轉移到 S/4HANA 雲。本月早些時候，我有幸會見了來自阿拉伯聯合酋長國的 Al-Futtaim 集團的領導團隊。他們在多個行業開展業務，並將著手進行由 RISE with SAP 提供支持的全面數字化轉型。

We also announced a joint collaboration with ExxonMobil to establish and adopt industry best practices and help them with their sustainability efforts. Finally, we are very proud to announce that we signed a long-term strategic deal with BMW this week based on RISE with SAP. We have been partners for more than 30 years and their cloud strategy is based on SAP across all dimensions on all key end-to-end business processes.

我們還宣布了與埃克森美孚的聯合合作，以建立和採用行業最佳實踐，幫助他們實現可持續發展。最後，我們非常自豪地宣布，本週我們與 BMW 簽署了基於 RISE with SAP 的長期戰略協議。我們成為合作夥伴已超過 30 年，他們的雲戰略基於 SAP 在所有關鍵端到端業務流程的所有維度上。

The SAP business technology platform is the foundation behind RISE and our portfolio momentum. Already today, more than 80% of RISE with SAP deals include the business technology platform as the foundation for integration and extensibility. This is powered by thousands of APIs, integration flows and low-code, no-code content packages. Lockheed Martin of the U.S. is an example of this. Lockheed's collaboration with SAP began in 1998. They will be now leveraging RISE with SAP to move their core business processes to a secure, managed fab ramp compliant cloud.

SAP 業務技術平台是 RISE 和我們的投資組合動力背後的基礎。如今，超過 80% 的 RISE with SAP 交易都將業務技術平台作為集成和可擴展性的基礎。這由數以千計的 API、集成流程和低代碼、無代碼內容包提供支持。美國洛克希德馬丁公司就是一個例子。 Lockheed 與 SAP 的合作始於 1998 年。他們現在將利用 RISE with SAP 將他們的核心業務流程轉移到一個安全的、託管的、符合工廠坡道要求的雲中。

They will be using the SAP business technology platform for emerging technology and the SAP Analytics Cloud to enhance their strategic data management. With S/4HANA and BTP at the core, our line of business applications also benefit from a flywheel effect as it is twice as likely that these ERP customers buy another SAP line of business application. More than 30% of SAP's current customers use 2 or more SAP solutions, and we see this increasing through this flywheel effect created by the business technology platform.

他們將使用面向新興技術的 SAP 業務技術平台和 SAP Analytics Cloud 來增強戰略數據管理。以 S/4HANA 和 BTP 為核心，我們的業務線應用程序也受益於飛輪效應，因為這些 ERP 客戶購買另一個 SAP 業務線應用程序的可能性是其兩倍。超過 30% 的 SAP 當前客戶使用 2 個或更多 SAP 解決方案，我們通過業務技術平台創造的飛輪效應看到了這種增長。

At the same time, coming out of a strong year, we will not rest as we continue to focus on our cost trends to increase both win rates and productivity. In previous quarters, we spoke with you about our continued focus to simplify and consolidate our portfolio with S/4HANA and BTP at the core. Our divestiture of Litmos in Q4 is an example of this. In 2023, we intend to sharpen this portfolio focus further. As we continue to build on our core strengths, we will be pivoting our CX and industry areas to be more focused on specific industries, complemented by a strong ecosystem. This focus on our core, together with our ongoing optimization of SAP's structure for cloud success are behind the announcement we made today.

與此同時，在經歷了強勁的一年後，我們不會休息，因為我們將繼續關注我們的成本趨勢，以提高贏單率和生產力。在前幾個季度，我們與您談到了我們繼續專注於簡化和整合我們以 S/4HANA 和 BTP 為核心的產品組合。我們在第四季度剝離 Litmos 就是一個例子。 2023 年，我們打算進一步加強這一投資組合重點。隨著我們繼續鞏固我們的核心優勢，我們將調整我們的 CX 和行業領域，以更加專注於特定行業，並輔之以強大的生態系統。這種對我們核心的關注，以及我們為云成功而不斷優化 SAP 的結構，是我們今天發布的消息的背後原因。

The intent to carry out a targeted restructuring in select areas of the company. This will impact up to 3,000 positions and will include a headcount reduction amounting to about 2.5% of our workforce. While we know these changes are necessary, it is never easy to make decisions that affect our colleagues in this way.

打算在公司的特定領域進行有針對性的重組。這將影響多達 3,000 個職位，包括裁員約 2.5% 的員工。雖然我們知道這些改變是必要的，但做出以這種方式影響我們同事的決定絕非易事。

In the same context, SAP has determined to explore a sale of its stake in Qualtrics. This would be a continuation of the strategy we set at the time of the Qualtrics IPO in 2021. SAP believes that this potential transaction could unlock significant value for both companies. For SAP, to focus more on its core business and profitability; and for Qualtrics, to extend its leadership in the XM category that it pioneered. Since the acquisition, Qualtrics has increased revenue by 3.5x to USD 1.5 billion, while delivering profitability, and has significantly expanded its offerings and enterprise customer adoption. In the event of a successful transaction, SAP intends to remain a close partner. A final decision is subject to market conditions, agreement on acceptable terms, regulatory approvals and the approval of the SAP SE Supervisory Board.

在同一背景下，SAP 已決定探索出售其在 Qualtrics 中的股份。這將是我們在 2021 年 Qualtrics IPO 時制定的戰略的延續。SAP 認為，這一潛在交易可以為兩家公司釋放巨大價值。對於SAP，更專注於其核心業務和盈利能力；對於 Qualtrics，擴大其在其開創的 XM 類別中的領導地位。自收購以來，Qualtrics 的收入增長了 3.5 倍，達到 15 億美元，同時實現了盈利，並顯著擴展了其產品和企業客戶的採用。如果交易成功，SAP 將繼續作為密切的合作夥伴。最終決定取決於市場條件、可接受條款的協議、監管批准和 SAP SE 監事會的批准。

SAP has retained Morgan Stanley as financial adviser to assist in the exploration of the sale of its stake in Qualtrics. I'd like to close by taking a look at our outlook and ambitions. As these results have shown, the power of SAP solutions in an increasingly uncertain world is clear. We are providing strong guidance for 2023 despite the continued macroeconomic pressures. The strategic transformation we announced over 2 years ago is in full swing and has reached a significant inflection point.

SAP 已聘請摩根士丹利擔任財務顧問，以協助探索出售其在 Qualtrics 的股份。最後，我想看看我們的前景和抱負。正如這些結果所示，SAP 解決方案在日益不確定的世界中的力量是顯而易見的。儘管宏觀經濟壓力持續存在，我們仍為 2023 年提供了強有力的指導。我們兩年多前宣布的戰略轉型如火如荼，已經到了一個重要的拐點。

The strength of our recurring revenue base is the foundation, which will power our next 50 years at the forefront of business and technology. We will already see a positive impact in 2023, including the promise we made to return to double-digit operating profit growth as well as accelerated cloud and total revenue growth. For our 2025 ambitions, we are ahead of plan and expect to provide an update to these ambitions later in the first half after the arrival of Dominik Asam, our new CFO.

我們經常性收入基礎的實力是基礎，它將為我們在未來 50 年的業務和技術前沿提供動力。我們將在 2023 年看到積極的影響，包括我們承諾恢復兩位數的營業利潤增長以及雲和總收入的加速增長。對於我們 2025 年的雄心壯志，我們提前完成了計劃，並希望在我們的新任首席財務官多米尼克·阿薩姆 (Dominik Asam) 上任後，在上半年晚些時候更新這些雄心壯志。

In closing, I can sense both the possibilities as well as the caution that will be required to navigate today's uncertain world. And lastly, on a more personal note, you all know that our CFO, Luka Mucic, is passing the torch to Dominik Asam on March 7. Luka, as Anthony said, you have enjoyed an impressive career at SAP. And of course, the whole SAP family will be always grateful for your commitment and your contributions to our success. I guess today also marks the 37th earnings in your CFO career. And personally, I would like to say you not only many, many thanks, especially over the last 2 years as the CFO and supporting this significant transformation, but as well for your partner and even more important, your personal mentorship. So many thanks to you, Luka, and all the best.

最後，我能感覺到在當今不確定的世界中航行所需的可能性和謹慎性。最後，就個人而言，大家都知道我們的首席財務官 Luka Mucic 將於 3 月 7 日將火炬傳遞給 Dominik Asam。Luka，正如 Anthony 所說，你在 SAP 的職業生涯令人印象深刻。當然，整個 SAP 家族將永遠感謝您的承諾以及您為我們的成功所做的貢獻。我想今天也是您 CFO 職業生涯中的第 37 份收入。就個人而言，我想說的不僅是非常非常感謝，尤其是在過去兩年擔任首席財務官並支持這一重大轉型，還要感謝您的合作夥伴，更重要的是，您的個人指導。非常感謝你，盧卡，祝你一切順利。

Yes. Thank you very much, Christian. It's a bit hard to follow with business as usual. Thank you so much for your kind words. But also from my side, a happy and healthy 2023 to everyone. Let me start by saying that I'm extremely proud of SAP's solid finish to 2022, demonstrating great resilience in the year that saw certainly many challenges.

是的。非常感謝你，克里斯蒂安。照常營業有點難。非常感謝你的客氣話。但從我的角度來說，祝大家 2023 年快樂健康。首先讓我說，我為 SAP 到 2022 年取得的堅實成績感到非常自豪，在這一年肯定面臨許多挑戰，展示了巨大的彈性。

But despite the extremely volatile business environment, we delivered on our financial commitments for 2022. And we are likewise on track to deliver our growth and profitability commitments for 2023. Our financial performance shows that we kept our promise and thoroughly executed on our plan by being laser-focused on building cloud momentum through agility and great cost discipline. This resulted in a successful finish to the year, and I am personally extremely confident that we will carry this strong momentum into the new year.

但是，儘管商業環境極其動盪，我們還是兌現了 2022 年的財務承諾。我們同樣有望兌現 2023 年的增長和盈利承諾。我們的財務業績表明，我們信守承諾並徹底執行了我們的計劃：激光專注於通過敏捷性和嚴格的成本紀律來建立雲勢頭。這使這一年圓滿結束，我個人非常有信心我們將把這種強勁勢頭帶入新的一年。

Customers around the globe continue to choose RISE with SAP to drive their end-to-end business transformations. Large cloud transactions with a volume greater than EUR 5 million contributed 48% to our cloud order entry for the full year and an impressive 50% in Q4, the highest number on record.

全球客戶繼續選擇 RISE with SAP 來推動他們的端到端業務轉型。交易量超過 500 萬歐元的大型雲交易占我們全年雲訂單錄入的 48%，第四季度達到令人印象深刻的 50%，創歷史新高。

Now let me dive into more details around our financial highlights. Current cloud backlog now exceeds EUR 12 billion, continuing its growth at scale to 24%, despite being negatively impacted by approximately 1.5 percentage points from the divestiture of our Litmos business and the wind down of our business operations in Russia and Belarus. S/4HANA our current cloud backlog growth accelerated to 82%, driven by the strong adoption of RISE with SAP. In Q4 alone, we added more than EUR 500 million to our S/4HANA current cloud backlog, leading to a total of EUR 3.17 billion.

現在讓我深入了解我們財務亮點的更多細節。目前的雲積壓訂單現已超過 120 億歐元，繼續以 24% 的規模增長，儘管我們的 Litmos 業務的剝離以及我們在俄羅斯和白俄羅斯的業務運營的結束帶來了大約 1.5 個百分點的負面影響。 S/4HANA 我們當前的雲積壓增長加速到 82%，這主要得益於 RISE with SAP 的大力採用。僅在第四季度，我們的 S/4HANA 當前云積壓訂單就增加了 5 億多歐元，總計 31.7 億歐元。

Cloud revenue this year surpassed support revenue and became the largest single revenue stream for SAP. Our combined SaaS and PaaS portfolio for 2022 continued to grow an impressive 27%, with SaaS cloud revenue up 25% and PaaS cloud revenue up 45%. This strong cloud growth was primarily the result of an outstanding contribution of S/4HANA cloud and the business technology platform. Driven by this strong double-digit cloud growth and an outstanding performance in services, total revenue was up 5% year-over-year, showing great traction compared to the year ago period.

今年雲收入超過支持收入，成為 SAP 最大的單一收入來源。我們在 2022 年合併的 SaaS 和 PaaS 產品組合繼續以驚人的 27% 的速度增長，其中 SaaS 雲收入增長 25%，PaaS 雲收入增長 45%。這種強勁的雲增長主要得益於 S/4HANA 雲和業務技術平台的傑出貢獻。在這種強勁的兩位數雲增長和出色的服務表現的推動下，總收入同比增長 5%，與去年同期相比顯示出巨大的吸引力。

Now let's take a brief look at our regional performance, where in the fourth quarter, all regions delivered a strong double-digit cloud performance with Brazil, Germany and Japan being standouts. For the full year, the Americas increased by 22%, EMEA by 26% and APJ, likewise by 26%. Germany, the United States and Japan had outstanding performances, while Brazil, Chile, China, Italy, Saudi Arabia, South Korea and Switzerland were all particularly strong.

現在讓我們簡要了解一下我們的地區表現，在第四季度，所有地區都實現了兩位數的強勁雲表現，其中巴西、德國和日本表現突出。全年來看，美洲增長 22%，EMEA 增長 26%，APJ 增長 26%。德國、美國和日本表現突出，巴西、智利、中國、意大利、沙特阿拉伯、韓國和瑞士表現尤為突出。

Now moving on to the bottom line, where our cloud gross margin for the full year continued its upward trend from last year and expanded 2.1 percentage points to 71.3%. This increase was driven by expanding gross margins across all cloud business models, with efficiency gains overcompensating increased investments into the next-generation cloud delivery program. The improvement of the cloud gross margin contributed nicely to our cloud gross profit growth of 28%. In the fourth quarter, non-IFRS operating profit grew by 2%, reaching an inflection point in our cloud transformation towards double-digit growth in 2023.

現在轉向底線，我們全年的雲毛利率從去年開始延續上升趨勢，擴大 2.1 個百分點至 71.3%。這一增長是由所有云業務模型的毛利率擴大推動的，效率提高過度補償了對下一代云交付計劃的投資增加。雲毛利率的提高對我們 28% 的雲毛利增長做出了很好的貢獻。第四季度，非 IFRS 營業利潤增長 2%，達到了我們在 2023 年實現兩位數增長的雲轉型的拐點。

Full year 2022 non-IFRS operating profit came in at EUR 8.03 billion, a 7% decline, mainly impacted by the decision to wind down business operations in Russia and Belarus, a reduced contribution from software licenses revenue as well as accelerated investments into R&D and sales and marketing to capture current and future growth opportunities.

2022 年全年非 IFRS 營業利潤為 80.3 億歐元，下降 7%，主要受俄羅斯和白俄羅斯業務運營結束的決定、軟件許可收入的貢獻減少以及研發投資加速和銷售和市場營銷，以抓住當前和未來的增長機會。

Earnings per share decreased 39% to EUR 4.08. The year-over-year decline reflects the contribution to financial income by Sapphire Ventures, that due to market conditions faced throughout the year was significantly lower than in the same period last year. The IFRS effective tax rate for the full year was 44.6% and the non-IFRS tax rate was 29.5%. This year-over-year increase mainly also resulted from changes in tax exempt income related to Sapphire Ventures.

每股收益下降 39% 至 4.08 歐元。同比下降反映了 Sapphire Ventures 對財務收入的貢獻，由於全年面臨的市場狀況，該貢獻顯著低於去年同期。全年 IFRS 實際稅率為 44.6%，non-IFRS 稅率為 29.5%。這一同比增長也主要是由於與 Sapphire Ventures 相關的免稅收入的變化。

Free cash flow for the full year came in at EUR 4.35 billion, in line with the revised outlook of approximately EUR 4.5 billion. This is predominantly due to lower profitability and adverse working capital impacts in other assets. While tax payments developed positively, smaller negative impacts came from share-based payments as well as capital expenditures and leasing. In addition, the increased volume of trade receivables sold in 2022 amounting to EUR 800 million versus EUR 500 million in 2021 had a positive impact on free cash flow.

全年自由現金流為 43.5 億歐元，與修訂後的約 45 億歐元的展望相符。這主要是由於較低的盈利能力和對其他資產的營運資金的不利影響。雖然稅收增長積極，但較小的負面影響來自股份支付以及資本支出和租賃。此外，與 2021 年的 5 億歐元相比，2022 年出售的貿易應收賬款增加了 8 億歐元，這對自由現金流產生了積極影響。

As you already heard from Christian, we will be initiating a targeted restructuring program this year with 2 main objectives: First, to focus our portfolio on our key strategic growth areas; and second, to improve overall process efficiency as we continue to accelerate our cloud transformation. We are highly confident in our short and midterm prospects. We see 2023 as another pivotal year that will help deliver on the accelerating top line and double-digit operating profit growth that is reflected in our outlook.

正如您已經從 Christian 那裡聽說的那樣，我們今年將啟動一項有針對性的重組計劃，主要目標有兩個：首先，將我們的投資組合集中在我們的關鍵戰略增長領域；其次，隨著我們繼續加速雲轉型，提高整體流程效率。我們對我們的短期和中期前景充滿信心。我們將 2023 年視為又一個關鍵的年份，這將有助於實現我們的展望中反映的加速營收和兩位數的營業利潤增長。

Finally, let's discuss our nonfinancial targets. Our greenhouse gas emissions were 95 kilotons within our adjusted target range. We remain on track to be net neutral in our own operations this year and we are continuing on the path to achieve net zero across the entire value chain by 2030. Employee Engagement Index was down 3 percentage points. This decrease is in line with global industry trends and related to external factors such as the lasting impact of the pandemic and macroeconomic conditions.

最後，讓我們討論一下我們的非財務目標。在調整後的目標範圍內，我們的溫室氣體排放量為 95 千噸。我們今年仍有望在我們自己的運營中保持淨中性，並且我們將繼續朝著到 2030 年在整個價值鏈中實現淨零的目標前進。員工敬業度指數下降了 3 個百分點。這一下降符合全球行業趨勢，並與大流行和宏觀經濟狀況的持續影響等外部因素有關。

We achieved 35% of women in the overall workforce and 29.4% women in management. In November, we brought the latest release of SAP Sustainability Control Tower to market, which effectively shares and organizes ESG data so companies can more accurately and readily report their performance to various reporting requirements and frameworks. This enables companies to set targets in actionable insights into core processes and create role specific actions to improve sustainability performance. As many of you may know, I not only have a passion for the financials, but also for sustainability and nonfinancial metrics. It has been an honor to drive this topic together with my colleagues during my tenure. We have been a pioneer in integrated reporting, and it has been a privilege to have a role in shaping this area.

我們實現了 35% 的女性員工隊伍和 29.4% 的女性管理層。 11 月，我們將最新版本的 SAP Sustainability Control Tower 推向市場，它有效地共享和組織 ESG 數據，使公司能夠更準確、更輕鬆地報告其績效，以滿足各種報告要求和框架。這使公司能夠在對核心流程的可操作洞察力中設定目標，並製定角色特定的行動以提高可持續性績效。正如你們中的許多人所知，我不僅對財務充滿熱情，而且對可持續性和非財務指標也充滿熱情。很榮幸在我任職期間與我的同事們一起推動這個話題。我們一直是綜合報告的先驅，很榮幸能夠在塑造這一領域發揮作用。

So to summarize, 2022 was another strong year for SAP, highlighted by our cloud performance across all regions despite the macroeconomic environment. This demonstrates our continued progress with customers who want to transform their businesses into more intelligent enterprises. Even with the challenges that we are seeing in the world today, we are confident in the opportunity ahead. Our 2023 outlook best illustrates that we are now entering the next phase with a pivotal year characterized by business momentum acceleration.

總而言之，2022 年對 SAP 來說又是強勁的一年，儘管宏觀經濟環境不佳，但我們在所有地區的雲性能都凸顯了這一點。這表明我們與希望將其業務轉變為更智能企業的客戶不斷取得進展。即使面對當今世界面臨的挑戰，我們對未來的機遇充滿信心。我們的 2023 年展望最好地說明了我們現在正進入下一階段，這是一個以業務勢頭加速為特徵的關鍵一年。

And finally, on a personal note, again, as you all know, this is my 37th and final earnings call with SAP. And I'm proud to have been part of such a great company. As I'm about to pass the torch, it is exciting to see that SAP is in such a position of strength and moving along on its growth trajectory.

最後，就個人而言，眾所周知，這是我與 SAP 的第 37 次也是最後一次財報電話會議。我很自豪能成為這樣一家偉大公司的一員。在我即將傳遞火炬之際，很高興看到 SAP 處於如此強大的位置並沿著其增長軌跡前進。

Let me also take the opportunity to share my own personal appreciation to all of you and to the broader financial market community. Providing transparency in an open and constructive dialogue has always been my goal. I hope that I was able to live up to this goal despite the often volatile times and the unprecedented transformation of our company in the last 9 years. It has always been a privilege.

讓我也藉此機會向大家和更廣泛的金融市場社區分享我個人的感激之情。在公開和建設性的對話中提供透明度一直是我的目標。我希望我能夠實現這個目標，儘管過去 9 年時常動盪不安，我們公司經歷了前所未有的轉型。這一直是一種特權。

Thank you very much, and we will now be happy to take your questions.

非常感謝您，我們現在很樂意回答您的問題。

All right. Thank you, Luka. And I would like to remind you to limit yourself to one question only, please. So Natalie, please open the line.

好的。謝謝你，盧卡。我想提醒大家，請將自己限制在一個問題上。娜塔莉，請打開電話。

(Operator Instructions) And our first question is from the line of Adam Wood from Morgan Stanley.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自摩根士丹利的亞當伍德。

Luka, best wishes from my side for the future. So the question was just around the fourth quarter cloud growth. We went into the quarter with the 26% cloud backlog growth and ended Q4 with 24%. And yet the cloud growth was 22%.

盧卡，我對未來的美好祝愿。所以問題就在於第四季度的雲增長。我們以 26% 的雲積壓增長進入本季度，並以 24% 結束了第四季度。然而，雲增長為 22%。

Could you just help us understand why that anomaly is there? And also help us understand how that accelerates into a higher level 22% to 25% in '23? Specifically, is there any issue with rational revenue growth in that side of the business that you're seeing in the fourth quarter that would have explained that, please.

你能幫我們理解為什麼會出現這種異常嗎？並且還幫助我們了解它如何在 23 年加速到 22% 到 25% 的更高水平？具體來說，您在第四季度看到的業務的合理收入增長是否存在任何問題，請解釋一下。

Yes. Thanks for the question, Adam. And let me get started and then in the overarching momentum. Perhaps Christian, you might want to add some comments or also, Scott, on what you see in the market.

是的。謝謝你的問題，亞當。讓我開始，然後是總體勢頭。也許克里斯蒂安，你可能想添加一些評論，或者斯科特，你在市場上看到的東西。

So essentially, in the fourth quarter, I think you have to remember a couple of effects. One, and that is something that I flagged on the CCB growth to be expected, we had the divestiture of Litmos, which obviously affected CCB negatively, and together with the continued effect from the Russia exit that resulted in the 24% CCB growth versus the 26% that we had.

所以基本上，在第四季度，我認為你必須記住幾個影響。第一，這是我對 CCB 增長的預期，我們剝離了 Litmos，這顯然對 CCB 產生了負面影響，再加上俄羅斯退出的持續影響導致 CCB 增長 24%，而我們擁有的 26%。

Actually, it is also sometimes a matter of rounding where you exactly end up on that. But we are actually very happy with the 24% that we reached. And I can also spend a few words on how we expect this to unfold in 2023. But just to round this up on the revenue front, you need to take into account that next to all of those impacts, of course, the divestiture of Litmos also meant that we lost some revenue due to the closure up to early December. We had also the anniversary of the Clarabridge acquisition that Qualtrics had done in the fourth quarter a year prior. And that obviously then brought the year-over-year growth rates down a bit, together with all of the other effects.

實際上，有時四捨五入也是一個問題。但實際上我們對達到的 24% 非常滿意。我還可以就我們預計這將如何在 2023 年展開幾句話說幾句。但只是為了在收入方面總結一下，你需要考慮到除了所有這些影響之外，當然還有 Litmos 的剝離這也意味著我們由於關閉至 12 月初而損失了一些收入。我們還慶祝了 Qualtrics 在一年前第四季度收購 Clarabridge 的周年紀念日。顯然，這與所有其他影響一起使同比增長率略有下降。

Transactional revenues were actually quite resilient in particular in Concur. I have to say that business is back. And I was surprised actually a bit that in Q4, they were already back in volumes to the pre-pandemic levels. So they grew actually in the 20s, which is a very decent performance. So it's really mainly down to those divestiture impacts and the anniversary of Clarabridge.

交易收入實際上非常有彈性，尤其是在 Concur 中。不得不說生意又回來了。實際上，令我感到驚訝的是，在第四季度，它們的數量已經恢復到大流行前的水平。所以他們實際上是在 20 多歲時增長的，這是一個非常不錯的表現。所以這真的主要取決於那些資產剝離的影響和 Clarabridge 的周年紀念日。

When we think about 2023, I would expect general re-acceleration throughout the year already starting in Q1 because of the strong backlog that we have been building that always comes into the revenue lines with 1 to 2 quarters of delay. And so you should see already a reacceleration in Q1 that would then further build up during the year. I'm sure there will be more questions around seasonality, but I'll leave it on that comment for cloud revenues.

當我們考慮 2023 年時，我預計全年的總體重新加速已經從第一季度開始，因為我們一直在建立的大量積壓訂單總是以 1 到 2 個季度的延遲進入收入線。因此，您應該會在第一季度看到重新加速，然後在這一年中進一步增強。我敢肯定會有更多關於季節性的問題，但我會把它留在關於雲收入的評論中。

And then in terms of the forward-looking momentum, I think Christian has already talked about the great success that we had with BMW, the signing yesterday. But perhaps you want to add some more comments around what you see in the market.

然後就前瞻性勢頭而言，我認為克里斯蒂安已經談到了我們與寶馬取得的巨大成功，昨天的簽約。但也許您想針對您在市場上看到的內容添加更多評論。

Yes. Luka, and also adding from my side, I guess we also provided for the first time today also the total cloud backlog, including not only the annual contract value, but the total value over the lifetime of the contracts. And there you're also going to see that we are also, in the meantime, have that EUR 34 billion in the books. And this has increased by 35% versus the 27%, we saw a normal growth in Q4.

是的。 Luka，我也補充說，我想我們今天也首次提供了雲積壓的總金額，不僅包括年度合同價值，還包括合同生命週期內的總價值。在那裡你還會看到，與此同時，我們的賬簿上也有 340 億歐元。與 27% 相比增長了 35%，我們在第四季度看到了正常增長。

And so this is also a signal that deals like BMW, I mentioned Porsche, I mentioned Merck, there are a lot of large enterprises now following our move. And of course, they have a certain ramp in their contract. So we're actually super confident that we already have the backlog to deliver on our ambition for 2023.

所以這也是一個信號，像寶馬，我提到保時捷，我提到默克，現在有很多大企業跟進我們的動作。當然，他們的合同有一定的提升。因此，我們實際上非常有信心，我們已經有積壓的訂單來實現我們 2023 年的雄心壯志。

And even beyond, together with the recurring revenue share, I mean, the business is super resilient. And I mean, for the year to come, I mean, Scott, we look into Q1 already. Luka already mentioned, there will be a reacceleration in the cloud, no matter if it's now on customers like BMW, where we are driving automation in manufacturing, in finance where we are working on analytics. Or if we're working on the supply chains of this world to make them more resilient. Or last but not least, if we are helping customers like Exxon and others to measure ESG in a standardized way and act on circular and other sustainability capabilities.

甚至超越，連同經常性收入份額，我的意思是，該業務具有超強的彈性。我的意思是，在接下來的一年裡，我的意思是，斯科特，我們已經在研究第一季度了。 Luka 已經提到，雲將會重新加速，無論它現在是否在像寶馬這樣的客戶身上，我們正在推動製造業的自動化，我們正在從事分析的金融領域。或者，如果我們正在研究這個世界的供應鏈，使它們更具彈性。或者最後但同樣重要的是，如果我們正在幫助像埃克森美孚和其他公司這樣的客戶以標準化方式衡量 ESG 並根據循環和其他可持續性能力採取行動。

The pipeline is actually very strong, and we are as confident as we have been last quarter. And Luka mentioned the onetimers we had in Q4, especially in the cloud revenue. Scott?

管道實際上非常強大，我們和上個季度一樣充滿信心。 Luka 提到了我們在第四季度的業績，尤其是在雲收入方面。斯科特？

Yes. [Luka], I'll probably only add 2 comments to add to what you and Luka mentioned, Christian. So Adam, the first is, you would see in Q4 that we not only continued to grow and RISE is the enabler in the flywheel that Christian mentioned at the beginning in the total cloud backlog.

是的。 [Luka]，Christian，我可能只會添加 2 條評論來補充你和 Luka 提到的內容。所以亞當，首先是，你會在第四季度看到我們不僅繼續增長，而且 RISE 是飛輪中的推動者，克里斯蒂安在開頭提到的總雲積壓中。

The proportion of large customers continues to expand. That gives health to our broader portfolio. So we mentioned many of them today, but you think about Fujitsu, Natuzzi, Tech Mahindra, Sumitomo, Renault, the list goes on. So large organizations, which will have that ramp that Christian mentioned.

大客戶佔比不斷擴大。這為我們更廣泛的投資組合帶來了健康。所以我們今天提到了很多，但你想想 Fujitsu、Natuzzi、Tech Mahindra、Sumitomo、Renault，這樣的例子不勝枚舉。如此龐大的組織，將擁有克里斯蒂安提到的那個斜坡。

And the reason why they're choosing SAP and RISE with SAP is because the market today needs companies they trust. More than ever, trust in the technology, trust in the partnership, trust in the capability that delivers scale, resilience, outstanding capabilities that helps them navigate whether it be supply chain or sustainability or other aspects.

他們之所以選擇 SAP 和 RISE with SAP，是因為當今市場需要他們信任的公司。比以往任何時候都更加信任技術，信任合作夥伴關係，信任提供規模、彈性和出色能力的能力，這些能力可以幫助他們在供應鏈、可持續性或其他方面駕馭。

And the other thing that we saw in Q4 was consistent performance across the world. We're a business that we see momentum in all of the regions. We -- obviously Luka mentioned some of the countries but that gives a level of confidence but also strengthen as we move forward. We have a consistent portfolio. We have a consistent business. And no matter where a customer is based and they're headquartered, they're trusting SAP to move forward. So I guess we look ahead with relative confidence not despite the factors that are outside of our control.

我們在第四季度看到的另一件事是全球的一致表現。我們是一家在所有地區都看到發展勢頭的企業。我們 - 顯然 Luka 提到了一些國家，但這提供了一定程度的信心，但也隨著我們的前進而加強。我們有一個一致的投資組合。我們有一個穩定的業務。無論客戶身在何處，無論他們的總部位於何處，他們都相信 SAP 會繼續前進。因此，我想儘管存在我們無法控制的因素，但我們還是充滿信心地展望未來。

The next question is from the line of Amit Harchandani from Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Amit Harchandani。

Amit Harchandani from Citi. And before I ask my questions, thank you, Luka, for the partnership over the years. It's been a pleasure over the last decade.

來自花旗的 Amit Harchandani。在我提出問題之前，感謝 Luka 多年來的合作。在過去的十年裡，這是一種樂趣。

Moving on to my question. My question is really with respect to the free cash flow trajectory in 2023 and if you look at it relative to what played out in 2022, quite a few moving parts, right? You had the sale of receivables, there's the dynamic around prepayments to hyperscalers, potentially deferred revenue. There's obviously restructuring next year.

繼續我的問題。我的問題實際上是關於 2023 年的自由現金流軌跡，如果你相對於 2022 年的情況來看它，就會發現有很多變化的部分，對吧？你有應收賬款的銷售，有圍繞超大規模預付款的動態，可能是遞延收入。明年顯然會進行重組。

So if you could kindly help us build a bridge towards how we arrive at the free cash flow for 2023? And more importantly, how should we get confident that you're on track to get to EUR 8 billion or potentially higher by 2025?

那麼，您是否可以幫助我們為我們如何實現 2023 年的自由現金流搭建一座橋樑？更重要的是，我們應該如何確信您有望在 2025 年達到 80 億歐元或可能更高？

Yes. Thanks for the question. That's a detailed one that I guess goes to me. So first of all, when you take a look at where we ended with the EUR 4.35 billion and then you build up, there are a couple of elements here.

是的。謝謝你的問題。我想這是一個詳細的問題。所以首先，當你看看我們以 43.5 億歐元結束時，然後你建立起來，這裡有幾個要素。

First, on the negative front, yes you're right. We have a restructuring that will result also in cash outflows of roughly EUR 300 million. So you need to subtract that, so to say, back. On the sale of receivables, actually, SAP has a long history of engaging in customer financing. In 2022, the EUR 800 million was actually a step-up over the roughly EUR 500 million that we had in the year before.

首先，在消極方面，是的，你是對的。我們的重組也將導致大約 3 億歐元的現金流出。所以你需要減去它，也就是說，返回。在應收賬款的出售上，其實SAP在客戶融資方面的歷史由來已久。到 2022 年，8 億歐元實際上比我們前一年的大約 5 億歐元有所增加。

But you need to understand, the prior year was in the long-term average, actually quite a low figure. So the long-term average is more around EUR 700 million. So we, yes, would expect that also in the future in 2023 and in the years beyond, we will have customer financing-related cash inflows at the same levels as what we have seen in 2022. So that is actually more or less a wash in terms of how you build the bridge for 2023 and beyond.

但是你要明白，前一年是長期平均，其實是一個很低的數字。因此，長期平均水平約為 7 億歐元。因此，是的，我們預計在 2023 年和以後的幾年裡，我們的客戶融資相關現金流入也將與我們在 2022 年看到的水平相同。所以這實際上或多或少是一種洗禮就如何為 2023 年及以後搭建橋樑而言。

When you then think about the progression, well, first of all, of course we expect that we will have a significantly higher profitability in 2023 compared to 2022 that will result also in a higher cash flow performance. You pointed to the fact that we had, in 2022, significant prepaid expenses from some strategic transactions that we did with hyperscalers, that were kind of a working capital headwind for us but made sense for us in the long run, because we were able to capitalize on better conditions as a part of that.

然後，當您考慮進展時，首先，當然，我們預計與 2022 年相比，我們在 2023 年的盈利能力將顯著提高，這也會帶來更高的現金流表現。您指出，在 2022 年，我們與超大規模企業進行的一些戰略交易產生了大量預付費用，這對我們來說是一種營運資本逆風，但從長遠來看對我們來說是有意義的，因為我們能夠利用更好的條件作為其中的一部分。

So that is something that we don't expect to the same extent to see in 2023 or the further years. Then you need to keep in mind that we have started in 2022 to move our share-based compensation plans to equity-settled plans. And under the old plans, we had actually a 1-year vesting period and then essentially payouts on a rolling basis. That is now changing. And the majority of our awards that now start to vest actually already after 6 months will then be paid out in equity.

因此，我們不希望在 2023 年或以後幾年看到同樣程度的事情。然後你需要記住，我們已經從 2022 年開始將我們的基於股份的薪酬計劃轉變為以股權結算的計劃。根據舊計劃，我們實際上有 1 年的歸屬期，然後基本上是滾動支付。現在情況正在改變。我們現在已經在 6 個月後實際開始授予的大部分獎勵將以股權形式支付。

So we will see starting this year and then with further increases of tailwinds in the following years as the old programs, the large cash settled anniversary and therefore, don't affect the cash flow anymore a reduction, to the point that we would expect in 2025 to end up only with roughly a bit more than EUR 500 million of cash-settled -- cash flow headwind, so to say, in the results.

因此，我們將看到從今年開始，隨著舊計劃在接下來幾年的順風進一步增加，大量現金結算週年紀念日，因此不會再影響現金流量減少，達到我們預期的程度到 2025 年，結果中只有大約 5 億多歐元的現金結算——現金流逆風。

And so it's basically mainly the combination of the increase in profitability, as well as the positive impacts from the move to equity-settled programs that will define the trajectory. The receivables financing should be neutral for the performance in the future years as we would expect to finance similar volumes as we have done in the past. On the working capital impacts that were particularly pronounced in 2022, I would expect a slight moderation of those.

因此，基本上主要是盈利能力的增加，以及轉向股權結算計劃的積極影響，這將決定發展軌跡。應收賬款融資對未來幾年的業績應該是中性的，因為我們預計會像過去那樣融資類似的數量。關於 2022 年特別明顯的營運資本影響，我預計這些影響會略有緩和。

And then it's at the end of the day, the growing profitability in the business. Obviously, we don't intend to rest with the growth that we have guided for in 2023, but actually see a strong prospect to further increase the growth rates on the profitability side in 2024 and beyond. I hope that's helpful, at least at the level that we can cover in such a call.

然後在一天結束時，業務的盈利能力不斷增長。顯然，我們不打算停留在我們所指導的 2023 年增長，但實際上看到了在 2024 年及以後進一步提高盈利能力方面的增長率的強勁前景。我希望這會有所幫助，至少在我們可以在這樣的電話會議中涵蓋的層面上。

The next question is from the line of James Goodman from Barclays.

下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 James Goodman。

Luka, all the best for the next chapter. My question is on the Qualtrics announcement, if I could ask you to elaborate perhaps a bit further there on the rationale. Why now when if you say the business has matured so much since the original acquisition and yes, it has worked very hard around the integration with certain other assets in the portfolio on the cross-selling opportunities as well?

盧卡，下一章一切順利。我的問題是關於 Qualtrics 的公告，我是否可以請你進一步詳細說明其中的理由。為什麼現在如果你說業務自最初的收購以來已經成熟很多，是的，它在交叉銷售機會方面也非常努力地圍繞與投資組合中某些其他資產的整合？

I mean you talked about a strong ongoing relationship with Qualtrics, clearly. But any detail there would be helpful, including those circumstances under which you would or wouldn't sell it, given what's happened to valuations in the space and whether they're specific use of the proceeds.

我的意思是你清楚地談到了與 Qualtrics 的牢固持續關係。但那裡的任何細節都會有所幫助，包括你會或不會出售它的情況，考慮到該領域的估值發生了什麼，以及它們是否是收益的特定用途。

Yes, I'm happy to answer that question. And look, when we did the first step with the IPO in 2021, we already, of course, have thought and planned what could be actually the end goal and what could be our journey together. So you are right. We invested heavily in the last years into the integration and embedding XM into our solutions. And we have seen great sales success and go-to-market success, tripled sales.

是的，我很高興回答這個問題。看，當我們在 2021 年邁出 IPO 的第一步時，我們當然已經考慮併計劃了最終目標和我們共同的旅程。所以你是對的。在過去的幾年裡，我們投入了大量資金將 XM 集成和嵌入到我們的解決方案中。我們已經看到了巨大的銷售成功和上市成功，銷售額翻了三倍。

But then also, I would say, around Q3, Q4, we were sitting together with the Qualtrics management team, we've (inaudible) and said, "Hey, actually, what we are doing, we can continue to do also in the future by embedding Qualtrics and our products go-to-market together, while we can also consider a sale which allows SAP on the one hand side, to free up investments and efforts to double down on our growth in the core, which is super strong".

但我想說的是，在第三季度、第四季度左右，我們與 Qualtrics 管理團隊坐在一起，我們（聽不清）說，“嘿，實際上，我們正在做的事情，我們也可以繼續做未來通過將 Qualtrics 和我們的產品一起推向市場，同時我們也可以考慮出售，一方面允許 SAP 釋放投資和努力，以加倍我們在核心領域的增長，這是非常強大的”。

You have seen the S/4HANA cloud numbers. The platform is booming. While Qualtrics can also, of course, go even more out and close another great partnerships with other partners in the market. And last but not least, we were jointly also of the opinion that we can significantly enhance also the value for the Qualtrics and the SAP shareholders. And that actually what made us came out of why we came to this decision to consider the potential sale.

您已經看到了 S/4HANA 雲數據。該平台正在蓬勃發展。當然，Qualtrics 也可以走得更遠，與市場上的其他合作夥伴建立良好的合作夥伴關係。最後但並非最不重要的一點是，我們還共同認為，我們也可以顯著提高 Qualtrics 和 SAP 股東的價值。這實際上讓我們明白了為什麼我們決定考慮潛在的銷售。

And it's a great asset. It's by far the best product in the XM category. So we're actually also seeing a lot of interest and we are very positive about the ongoing process.

這是一筆巨大的財富。它是迄今為止 XM 類別中最好的產品。所以我們實際上也看到了很多興趣，我們對正在進行的過程非常積極。

The process should also be straightforward because Qualtrics is really set up independently already since some time. They have a dedicated leadership team. They have a strong culture across the organization. So it's really straightforward, does not require any carve-out efforts or anything like that.

這個過程也應該很簡單，因為 Qualtrics 實際上已經獨立建立了一段時間。他們有一個敬業的領導團隊。他們在整個組織中擁有強大的文化。所以它真的很簡單，不需要任何分拆努力或類似的事情。

But perhaps to just add to the rationale, I think one financial reason that we are also taking seriously because we want to make sure we maximize value, as Christian has said. And to the shareholders of both Qualtrics as well as SAP, is that we have seen in the -- in particular, in the last year, that while I think both Qualtrics and SAP make progress in the partnership and we drive good results.

但也許只是為了增加理由，我認為我們也在認真對待一個財務原因，因為我們想確保我們的價值最大化，正如克里斯蒂安所說的那樣。對於 Qualtrics 和 SAP 的股東來說，我們已經看到 - 特別是在去年，雖然我認為 Qualtrics 和 SAP 在合作夥伴關係方面取得了進展並且我們取得了良好的成果。

Also Qualtrics, I think, had not only a decent performance in 2022, but is also now guiding to stronger profitability while continuing on its march to gain share in the experience management space. There is a certain level of overhang of the SAP majority share. I believe that Qualtrics and SAP are not at the moment set up to optimally crystallize the value that is behind the company. And therefore, exploring that sale could be a way to unlock more of this value to the benefit of the Qualtrics shareholders and SAP at the same time.

此外，我認為 Qualtrics 不僅在 2022 年表現不錯，而且現在正在引導實現更強勁的盈利能力，同時繼續在體驗管理領域取得份額。 SAP 的多數股份存在一定程度的懸垂。我相信 Qualtrics 和 SAP 目前還沒有建立以最佳方式具體化公司背後的價值。因此，探索此次出售可能是釋放更多價值的一種方式，同時有利於 Qualtrics 股東和 SAP。

But it means at the same time, that we absolutely expect this value to crystallize in order to ultimately then consider to consummate a transaction. So we will absolutely prioritize getting optimal value for a premier pristine cloud company that Qualtrics is. And we will prioritize this over timing and will certainly also be prepared to ultimately not consummate a transaction in the unlikely event that we would not generate the value that is fair for all stakeholders of Qualtrics, including also the SAP shareholders.

但這同時意味著，我們絕對希望這個價值能夠具體化，以便最終考慮完成交易。因此，我們絕對會優先考慮為 Qualtrics 這樣一家一流的原始雲公司獲得最佳價值。我們將優先考慮這一點而不是時間安排，並且當然也會準備在不太可能發生的情況下最終不完成交易，因為我們不會產生對 Qualtrics 所有利益相關者（包括 SAP 股東）公平的價值。

And that's why we cannot, at this point in time, tell you with precision when this process would be over. We wanted to give you early insights and transparency around it. But that, of course, remains to be seen. And that means, at the same time, that also the use of proceeds is a question that is understandable, but perhaps a little bit premature. But to say generally, of course, assuming that we are able to strike a deal at a strong valuation, we would have a range of options with any proceeds, which could range all the way from reinvestment in some interesting assets around our core that are closely associated with our strengths, all the way to enhance capital returns to shareholders.

這就是為什麼我們現在不能準確地告訴你這個過程何時結束。我們希望為您提供有關它的早期見解和透明度。但這當然還有待觀察。同時，這意味著收益的使用也是一個可以理解的問題，但或許有點為時過早。但總的來說，當然，假設我們能夠以高估值達成交易，我們將有一系列的選擇和任何收益，可能包括對我們核心周圍一些有趣資產的再投資，這些資產是緊密結合我們的優勢，一路提升股東的資本回報。

We will determine this when we have greater visibility in the process, but it gives us great optionality, of course, to crystallize more value also for the SAP shareholders.

當我們在流程中有更大的可見性時，我們將確定這一點，但它給了我們很大的選擇權，當然，也可以為 SAP 股東創造更多價值。

The next question is from the line of Michael Briest from UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Michael Briest。

Yes. Luka, I can't let you get away without a question on cloud margins. Could you say a little bit about the convergence costs for 2022 and 2023? And how much of those went into the cost of sales rather than R&D?

是的。盧卡，我不能讓你不問云邊緣就跑了。您能談談 2022 年和 2023 年的融合成本嗎？其中有多少用於銷售成本而不是研發成本？

And then obviously, you've now got several thousand customers on RISE, do you have a better view on where cloud margins are going to mature to in the next few years or certainly the end of this year as well, given that those investments will fade in the second half?

然後很明顯，你現在有數千名客戶在 RISE 上，你是否對未來幾年或今年年底雲利潤率將走向成熟有更好的看法，因為這些投資將下半場淡出？

Yes. And you're always very welcome to post your cloud margin questions. That allows me to be the only one in the room who can answer them and that always makes me proud, seriously speaking.

是的。並且隨時歡迎您發布您的雲邊緣問題。這讓我成為房間裡唯一可以回答他們的人，這總是讓我感到自豪，說真的。

In terms of the convergence costs, it was significant in 2022 as we accelerated in order to be ready in time to finalize the program. So we had around about EUR 450 million in total costs associated with the harmonized cloud delivery program. That's significantly more double, more than double, actually more than what we had in 2021. And approximately EUR 200 million of those with roughly EUR 50 million per quarter were actually spent on the cost of cloud line.

就收斂成本而言，2022 年的收斂成本非常高，因為我們加快了速度，以便及時準備好完成該計劃。因此，與統一的雲交付計劃相關的總成本約為 4.5 億歐元。這比我們在 2021 年的收入翻了一番多，甚至多一倍多。而且每季度約 5000 萬歐元的支出中，大約有 2 億歐元實際用於雲線路的成本。

This cost will, as I said, for a couple of quarters, fade away in 2023. There will still be a portion around in the first half of 2023, but substantially smaller already than the run rate that we have seen in 2022, can think roughly half of that run rate. And then as we have now a full visibility into the completion of the program, there's essentially only one line of business left with some data center migrations and then the final asset retirement. But that is absolutely certain now to happen on time.

正如我所說，這筆費用將持續幾個季度，並在 2023 年逐漸消失。到 2023 年上半年仍有一部分，但已經大大低於我們在 2022 年看到的運行率，可以想像大約是該運行率的一半。然後，由於我們現在可以完全了解該計劃的完成情況，因此基本上只剩下一條業務線，其中包含一些數據中心遷移，然後是最終資產報廢。但現在絕對可以準時發生。

The second half year will be completely free of these cloud delivery harmonization-related expenses. And therefore, in terms of the progression on the cloud margin front, you have seen that we had a decent progress already in 2022, more than 2 percentage points against this headwind is actually already a very good progress. I would not have entirely expected this to be quite honest, to be the case already this year, for the first half year.

下半年將完全免除這些與雲交付協調相關的費用。因此，就雲利潤率方面的進展而言，你已經看到我們在 2022 年已經取得了不錯的進展，超過 2 個百分點的逆風實際上已經是一個非常好的進展。老實說，今年上半年就已經是這種情況了，我完全沒想到會是這樣。

I'm also confident that despite the remaining headwinds from the program, you will already see some further acceleration in the cloud margin in the first half year. And then obviously, a more pronounced one in the second half year. I would not be surprised if we had an exit rate ultimately at the end of the year in the neighborhood of what we always soft guided for, for 2023, even a few years ago without the S/4HANA private cloud search of around about 75% plus and minus. And again, the plus and minus is really the success in sales of S/4 in the private cloud deployment option in the first half year.

我也相信，儘管該計劃仍然存在不利因素，但您將在上半年看到雲利潤率進一步加速。然後很明顯，下半年更為明顯。如果我們最終在年底的退出率接近我們一直軟性指導的 2023 年，即使是幾年前沒有大約 75% 的 S/4HANA 私有云搜索，我也不會感到驚訝正負。再說一次，上半年在私有云部署選項中銷售 S/4 確實取得了成功。

Because especially as you start the build of those landscapes, of course, you have a small ramp. Yet you have already a relatively high level of cost and set of cost for those landscapes. So that's the remaining uncertainty here. But certainly, the exit rate will be significantly ahead of where we are currently.

因為特別是當你開始建造這些景觀時，當然，你有一個小坡道。然而，對於這些景觀，您已經擁有相對較高的成本和成本組合。這就是這裡剩下的不確定性。但可以肯定的是，退出率將大大高於我們目前的水平。

And then for 2025, it's basically unchanged from what I said at our Capital Markets Day, assuming that RISE with SAP and S/4 private cloud remain as successful as they are today, and we have more and more customers of the likes of BMW moving their entire landscapes in massive contracts to the cloud with us.

然後到 2025 年，這與我在資本市場日所說的基本沒有變化，假設 RISE with SAP 和 S/4 私有云仍然像今天一樣成功，並且我們有越來越多的寶馬等客戶在移動他們的整個景觀與我們簽訂了與雲的大規模合同。

There is going to be an increasing headwind against the continued progress in the public cloud that we expect now where, I would say, that all of our main assets will end up come 2025 above the 80% mark. But then again, with the dampening impact of the private cloud, we could end up a couple of percentage points below the 80% mark. But if that was the case, then we would actually have, at the same time, a massive search in cloud gross profit, which would be actually more than an offsetting help to guide us towards our profit ambition for 2025.

我們現在預計，公共雲的持續進步將面臨越來越大的阻力，我想說，到 2025 年，我們所有的主要資產都將超過 80%。但話又說回來，由於私有云的抑製作用，我們最終可能會比 80% 大關低幾個百分點。但如果真是這樣，那麼我們實際上會同時對雲毛利進行大規模搜索，這實際上不僅僅是一種抵消幫助，可以引導我們實現 2025 年的利潤目標。

So that's a nice problem to have. And rest assured that we will stay focused as we have been in the last 2 years of pulling all of the available levers in order to further improve our performance. To a certain extent, the development of prepaid expenses that you saw in the free cash flow side and that we discussed are also a means to set us up for more efficient consumption of cloud infrastructure entitlements that will further help with the margin.

所以這是一個很好的問題。請放心，我們將保持專注，因為我們在過去 2 年中一直在拉動所有可用的槓桿，以進一步提高我們的績效。在某種程度上，您在自由現金流方面看到的以及我們討論的預付費用的發展也是一種讓我們更有效地消費云基礎設施權利的手段，這將進一步幫助提高利潤率。

And maybe just to prove, Luka, that also the CEO has some expertise in that subject. Michael, I mean, you should not expect -- I mean, now the infrastructure is clean. It's a clear set of -- on the one hand side, we have our own infrastructure, which is now completely harmonized.

盧卡，也許只是為了證明首席執行官在該主題上也有一些專業知識。邁克爾，我的意思是，你不應該期望——我的意思是，現在基礎設施很乾淨。這是一套明確的——一方面，我們有自己的基礎設施，現在已經完全協調。

Yes, we have to do some work on the decommissioning. We have our hyperscaler strategy clear set and done with a lot of fail over and backup scenario. So that's super modern and super resilient. But what we still do as part of our continuous efforts is we are working on further scale-out capabilities of our database, which has significant impact on the TCO.

是的，我們必須在退役方面做一些工作。我們有明確的超大規模戰略，並完成了大量的故障轉移和備份方案。所以這是超級現代和超級有彈性的。但作為我們持續努力的一部分，我們仍在做的是我們正在努力進一步擴展我們數據庫的能力，這對 TCO 有重大影響。

Scott did some great work on putting higher incentives on price versus volume, and that led to also a very, very good trend on keeping also our prices up and running. We are infusing the CPI clauses. We announced in a very successful way, so both from an engineering perspective as well as from a pricing perspective, I'm actually very confident that we're also going to see some good levels also in the years ahead. And now where we are also after. Luka is not here anymore. There will be someone looking at this KPI very closely.

斯科特在對價格與數量進行更高的激勵方面做了一些出色的工作，這也導致了一個非常非常好的趨勢，即保持我們的價格上漲和運行。我們正在註入 CPI 條款。我們以非常成功的方式宣布，所以無論是從工程角度還是從定價角度來看，我實際上都非常有信心我們在未來幾年也會看到一些好的水平。現在我們也在追求的地方。盧卡已經不在了。會有人非常仔細地關注這個 KPI。

So Christian, you have just proven that I have indeed been mentoring you very well.

所以克里斯蒂安，你剛剛證明我確實一直很好地指導你。

The next question is from the line of Johannes Schaller from Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Johannes Schaller。

Luka, thank you very much for the great collaboration over the last years. I may have missed that, but did you provide the cloud extension multiplier for the quarter. So that's just a housekeeping item.

Luka，非常感謝你在過去幾年的出色合作。我可能錯過了，但是你提供了本季度的雲擴展乘數嗎？所以這只是一個家政用品。

And then I think it's very useful that you give the total cloud backlog number now. How should we think about the kind of average duration or average contract lifetime of that number maybe?

然後我認為現在提供雲積壓總數非常有用。我們應該如何考慮該數字的平均持續時間或平均合同壽命？

And then just on S/4HANA cloud. I mean that continues to grow really impressively despite -- from a mathematical perspective, comps getting much tougher. So how should we think about that over the course of 2023 from a revenue and CCP perspective? Will that at one point normalize, or should we really be thinking about these great growth rates continuing?

然後就在 S/4HANA 雲上。我的意思是，儘管從數學的角度來看，comps 變得更加艱難，但它仍在繼續令人印象深刻地增長。那麼，從收入和 CCP 的角度來看，我們應該如何在 2023 年期間考慮這一點？這會在某一時刻正常化，還是我們真的應該考慮繼續保持這些高增長率？

Yes. Let me start with the more technical aspects here, in particular, around the cloud extension policy. So when you look at the full year, actually, the multipliers continue to hover rather around the 3x than the 2x factor.

是的。讓我從這裡的更多技術方面開始，特別是圍繞雲擴展策略。因此，當您查看全年時，實際上，乘數繼續徘徊在 3 倍左右而不是 2 倍左右。

However, you always have a seasonality in Q4 because you sign up the largest transactions that you have a slightly higher exposure. So for Q4, we had an extension factor of roughly 2.6x now, which still made it in total for the full year, a 2.9x factor. So you see that this is substantially ahead. And I would also expect as we go into the next year, that in the first half, we will rather have higher multipliers. And then as we sign up the very large deals, then it might moderate a bit.

但是，您在第四季度總是有季節性，因為您簽署了最大的交易，您的風險敞口略高。因此，對於第 4 季度，我們現在的擴展係數約為 2.6 倍，全年總計仍為 2.9 倍。所以你看到這已經大大領先了。而且我還預計，隨著我們進入明年，在上半年，我們寧願擁有更高的乘數。然後當我們簽署非常大的交易時，它可能會有所緩和。

But this continues to show the same the same behavior as we have seen actually since we launched RISE. And you can see it also in the resilience of our support revenues. I mean, with those heavy software license declines having actually only a flat support revenue development for the year is actually very resilient.

但這繼續顯示出與我們自推出 RISE 以來實際看到的相同的行為。您也可以在我們支持收入的彈性中看到這一點。我的意思是，隨著那些嚴重的軟件許可下降實際上只有持平的支持，今年的收入發展實際上非常有彈性。

In absolute numbers, we had roughly EUR 200 million of support revenues that changed sites to the cloud line, so to say, over the entire business year. So this is very resilient. In terms of the total cloud backlog, I'm happy that you find it useful. And indeed, I think it follows the kind of verbal comments that we had already in the past earnings calls, that we have seen the total order entry actually moving with even greater speed and pace in terms of growth than the annualized performance or the current cloud backlog, for that matter.

就絕對數字而言，可以說，在整個業務年度內，我們將站點更改為雲線路的支持收入約為 2 億歐元。所以這是非常有彈性的。就總的雲積壓而言，我很高興您發現它有用。事實上，我認為這遵循了我們在過去的財報電話會議上已經發表的那種口頭評論，我們已經看到總訂單輸入實際上以比年化業績或當前云計算更快的增長速度和步伐移動積壓，就此而言。

It's a figure that we are currently prepared to produce on an annual basis. So we'll provide an update at the end of next business year as well. And in the meantime, we'll also provide color commentary on what we are seeing. But I would expect this trend to continue for a while, in particular as long as our upgrade cycle of customers to S/4 and in the cloud is in full swing, which certainly will be the case for the next 3, 4 years. Because there, you have then those large contracts with more significant ramps.

這是我們目前準備每年生成的一個數字。因此，我們也將在下一財年末提供更新。與此同時，我們還將對我們所看到的進行顏色評論。但我預計這種趨勢會持續一段時間，特別是只要我們的客戶升級到 S/4 和雲的周期如火如荼，未來 3、4 年肯定會如此。因為在那裡，您將擁有那些具有更重要坡道的大合同。

Perhaps as a last case in point that we did not discuss yet also, the average contract duration at SAP in the cloud is up. It's by now almost reaching 4 years, and that is another function of those large multiyear deals that we are signing up. And so therefore, the [TCB] is actually a helpful measure even though, of course, as it's not broken down to individual business, yes, we'd rather give you a measure of the underlying orders that we have already under the belt for our midterm ambition than a really good predictor of (inaudible) revenues for the years beyond 2023. Perhaps on the S/4 cloud revenue, number you might have a view, Christian, but I think it will certainly remain a high growth.

也許作為我們還沒有討論的最後一個例子，SAP 在雲端的平均合同期限已經結束。現在已經接近 4 年了，這是我們正在簽署的那些大型多年期交易的另一個功能。因此，[TCB] 實際上是一個有用的衡量標準，當然，因為它沒有細分到個別業務，是的，我們寧願給你一個我們已經準備好的基礎訂單的衡量標準我們的中期目標比 2023 年以後幾年（聽不清）收入的一個很好的預測指標要好。也許關於 S/4 雲收入，你可能有一個觀點，克里斯蒂安，但我認為它肯定會保持高增長。

Luka, this morning, I got also the question in the press conference, what about the end of maintenance for our ECC and older ERP version? And do we go to expand and extend this time line again? No, we are not going to extend that, because we're actually giving customers already a lot of choice to move with us to S/4HANA.

Luka，今天早上，我在新聞發布會上也被問到，我們的ECC和舊ERP版本的維護結束了怎麼辦？我們是否要再次擴展和延長這條時間線？不，我們不會擴展它，因為我們實際上已經為客戶提供了很多選擇，可以與我們一起遷移到 S/4HANA。

We still have on-prem and guaranteed until 2040. But we, of course, see now in the meantime, big success with our move to the cloud with RISE. And we're seeing that a lot of customers are now left who are now starting with us in this journey. You have seen all the large logos. But also important to mention, while there is a lot of business left in our installed base and we give customers choice, but the predominant share will move with us to the cloud, especially that the timeline is coming closer with 2027.

在 2040 年之前，我們仍然有本地部署和保證。但是，當然，我們現在看到，與此同時，我們通過 RISE 遷移到雲中取得了巨大成功。我們看到現在有很多客戶離開了，他們現在開始與我們一起踏上這段旅程。你已經看到了所有的大標誌。但同樣重要的是要提到，雖然我們的安裝基礎中還有很多業務，我們為客戶提供選擇，但主要份額將與我們一起轉移到雲端，特別是隨著時間線接近 2027 年。

But of course, we also have seen 50% net new customer share, and we are putting a lot of work currently into our volume business. So let's not forget with Julia, Scott and Thomas, we are working now on we have customers like [Doctolib] unicorns who actually celebrate go-lives in weeks. And we want to activate this channel even more because the product is really designed also for the small and the midsized customers.

但當然，我們也看到了 50% 的淨新客戶份額，我們目前正在為我們的批量業務投入大量工作。因此，我們不要忘記 Julia、Scott 和 Thomas，我們現在正在努力，我們有像 [Doctolib] 獨角獸這樣的客戶，他們實際上會在幾週內慶祝上線。我們更想激活這個渠道，因為該產品實際上也是為中小型客戶設計的。

So while we are moving the large ones and the installed base, we're definitely also not going to rest on the small and midsized segment, and we see good business coming in there. We want to activate the channels here much stronger across the world.

因此，在我們轉移大型企業和已安裝基礎的同時，我們絕對不會停留在中小型市場上，我們看到那裡有很好的業務。我們希望激活這裡的渠道，使其在世界範圍內更加強大。

And last but not least, I mean what we are doing also with the restructuring. Look, this is -- has a moderate impact on 2023, but we're already doing this now and also for the years to come, to also have their strong results, especially also both top and bottom line. But also even more important we also, with this strategy activate our cross-sell potentially, because the BTP is now de facto standard. S/4HANA is booming. And then we can also increase the win rates of our applications who are circumventing the core, as we have shown on this one slide. That is working, and this is what we are doubling down on.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是，我的意思是我們在重組方面也正在做的事情。看，這對 2023 年產生了適度的影響，但我們現在和未來幾年都在這樣做，以取得強勁的業績，尤其是在頂線和底線方面。但更重要的是，我們還可以通過這種策略激活我們的交叉銷售潛力，因為 BTP 現在是事實上的標準。 S/4HANA 正在蓬勃發展。然後我們還可以提高繞過核心的應用程序的成功率，正如我們在這張幻燈片上所顯示的那樣。這是有效的，這就是我們正在加倍努力的事情。

So you can definitely expect a further acceleration. But at a certain point, we should really look at the absolute terms because, of course, mathematically, the percentage growth rates, this is just mathematically then at a certain point of time, a question mark.

所以你絕對可以期待進一步的加速。但在某個時候，我們真的應該看看絕對值，因為當然，從數學上講，百分比增長率，這只是數學上的某個時間點，一個問號。

The next question is from the line of Stefan Slowinski from BNP Paribas Exane.

下一個問題來自 BNP Paribas Exane 的 Stefan Slowinski。

Luka, all the best as well in your next endeavor. I enjoyed working with you over these past few years. So I just wanted to follow up, I guess, 2 quick points. Just on the hyperscaler relationships. Obviously, they're seeing a bit of pressure in terms of consumption. Does that give you an opportunity to negotiate some better bulk transactions? And is that maybe what we saw there in Q4? And can that also be a tailwind to margin?

盧卡，在你接下來的努力中也祝你一切順利。在過去的幾年裡，我很高興和你一起工作。所以我只是想跟進，我想，2 個快速要點。就超大規模關係而言。顯然，他們在消費方面看到了一些壓力。這是否讓您有機會協商一些更好的大宗交易？這可能是我們在第四季度看到的嗎？這也可以成為保證金的順風嗎？

And then just a second one on the backlog. You just talked about the multipliers, the visibility there. How confident are you about getting to double-digit revenue growth? Could that happen as early as 2024? Or would that require sort of a much better macro environment in 2024?

然後只是積壓的第二個。你剛剛談到了乘數，那裡的可見性。您對實現兩位數的收入增長有多大信心？這最早會在 2024 年發生嗎？或者這是否需要在 2024 年有一個更好的宏觀環境？

On the hyperscaler engagements, I would definitely say, yes, the environment is good. We, of course, in constant talks around our partnership, both technical as well as commercially. And second, about double-digit total revenue growth, 2024, it's -- yes, absolutely. It's possible.

關於超大規模的參與，我肯定會說，是的，環境很好。當然，我們一直在就技術和商業方面的合作夥伴關係進行討論。其次，關於 2024 年兩位數的總收入增長，是的，絕對是。這是可能的。

And as you're going to see the recurring revenue shares growing and growing, we are talking about 83% already in 2023. It's absolutely feasible to come to double-digit total revenue in 2024.

隨著您將看到經常性收入份額不斷增長，我們正在談論到 2023 年已經達到 83%。在 2024 年達到兩位數的總收入是絕對可行的。

This is clearly our ambition. Yes, Stefan.

這顯然是我們的野心。是的，斯特凡。

And we'll take one last question.

我們將回答最後一個問題。

The last question is from the line of Toby Ogg from JPMorgan.

最後一個問題來自摩根大通的 Toby Ogg。

Luka, all the best for the future. Just thinking about the EBIT growth trajectory that we're on, clearly, minus 8% in Q3, plus 2% in Q4. How should we think about this phasing as we move through '23?

盧卡，未來一切順利。想想我們所處的息稅前利潤增長軌跡，很明顯，第三季度為負 8%，第四季度為 2%。在我們走過 23 年時，我們應該如何考慮這個階段？

If I look back through '22, it looks as though the easiest comps are in Q1 and Q2, but also mindful there are now cost savings in the mix here as well. And there's a phasing element to that. So could you just help us understand the exact phasing or the trajectory of the EBIT growth through '23?

如果我回顧 22 年，看起來最簡單的組合似乎是在第一季度和第二季度，但也要注意現在這裡的組合也節省了成本。這有一個階段性因素。那麼，您能否幫助我們了解 23 年 EBIT 增長的確切階段或軌跡？

Yes, absolutely. Thanks for the question. I have actually expected it and waited for it as it's a very good one. So we actually believe that our easiest compares and therefore, the best performance will be in Q2 and Q3.

是的，一點沒錯。謝謝你的問題。我實際上已經期待並等待它，因為它非常好。所以我們實際上相信我們最簡單的比較，因此，最好的表現將在第二季度和第三季度。

In Q2 for the obvious reason that last year, we had the significant impact of the exit of Russia. Most of it was realized in Q2. And why Q3? Well because it will be the first quarter where we will be entirely free of the cloud delivery harmonization expenses, and that will be a significant help to the P&L then. The difficult, the toughest compares are actually Q1 and Q4 for different reasons. In Q4 it's because last year, we had the Litmos divestiture, which broad onetime gain of EUR 109 million in non-IFRS results. And that is not something that at the moment we have in our planning for Q4 of this year.

在第二季度，由於去年的明顯原因，我們受到了俄羅斯退出的重大影響。其中大部分是在第二季度實現的。為什麼是 Q3？好吧，因為這將是我們將完全免除雲交付協調費用的第一季度，這將對損益表產生重大幫助。由於不同的原因，最困難、最艱難的比較實際上是 Q1 和 Q4。在第四季度，這是因為去年我們剝離了 Litmos，這在非 IFRS 業績中獲得了 1.09 億歐元的一次性收益。這不是我們今年第四季度計劃中的內容。

And Q1, because it was still relatively unaffected by the Russia exit. And you cannot -- you must not forget that we had still in the first quarter some revenues in Russia, mainly in support revenues and also in cloud revenues. And for 2023, we essentially, we plan with zero revenues in Russia.

而第一季度，因為它仍然相對不受俄羅斯退出的影響。而且你不能 - 你不能忘記我們在第一季度在俄羅斯仍有一些收入，主要是支持收入和雲收入。對於 2023 年，我們基本上計劃在俄羅斯實現零收入。

Nevertheless, I would say already in Q1, we should be pretty close to, if not already achieving a double-digit growth than we would have in Q2, the highest growth of the year followed by another a very decent performance in Q3. And then in Q4, the growth should moderate again. And for the future years, again, we are expecting an accelerating trajectory because then in '24, the entirety of the cloud delivery harmonization program will be behind us. And that will, of course, provide next to additional efficiency gains that we expect across our business and further progress on the cloud margin, will provide some significant further relief. I hope that's helpful from a planning perspective.

儘管如此，我要說的是，在第一季度，我們應該已經非常接近，如果還沒有實現比第二季度更高的兩位數增長，那麼今年的最高增長隨後是第三季度的另一個非常不錯的表現。然後在第四季度，增長應該會再次放緩。對於未來幾年，我們再次期待一個加速的軌跡，因為到 24 世紀，整個雲交付協調計劃將在我們身後。當然，這將提供我們期望在整個業務中獲得的額外效率提升以及雲利潤率的進一步進步，這將提供一些顯著的進一步緩解。從規劃的角度來看，我希望這會有所幫助。

All right. Thank you, and this concludes our call for today. Thanks for joining.

好的。謝謝大家，我們今天的呼籲到此結束。感謝您的加入。

Thanks a lot.

非常感謝。

Yes. Thank you very much.

是的。非常感謝你。

Thanks, everybody.

謝謝大家。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded, and you may disconnect. Thank you.

女士們先生們，會議現已結束，你們可以斷開聯繫了。謝謝你。