SAP SE (SAP) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome and thank you for joining the SAP Q2 and half year 2025 financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to Alexandra Steiger, Global Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的支持。歡迎並感謝您參加 SAP 2025 年第二季和上半年財務業績電話會議。（操作員指示）現在，我想將會議交給全球投資者關係主管 Alexandra Steiger。請繼續。

Good evening everyone, and welcome. Thank you for joining us. With me today are CEO, Christian Klein; and CFO, Dominik Asam. On this call, we will discuss SAP's second quarter 2025 results. You can find the deck supplementing this call, as well as our quarterly statement on our investor relations website.

大家晚上好，歡迎光臨。感謝您加入我們。今天和我一起的有執行長 Christian Klein 和財務長 Dominik Asam。在本次電話會議上，我們將討論 SAP 2025 年第二季的業績。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到補充本次電話會議的簡報以及我們的季度聲明。

During this call, we will make forward-looking statements which are predictions, projections, or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risk and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to differ materially.

在本次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，即對未來事件的預測、預期或其他陳述。這些聲明是基於目前的預期和假設，但受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果和結果有重大差異。

Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our findings with the SEC, including but not limited to the risk factor section of our annual report on Form 20-F for 2024. Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS, and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS, year on year at constant currencies.

有關這些風險和不確定性的更多信息，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的調查結果，包括但不限於我們 2024 年 20-F 表年度報告中的風險因素部分。除非另有說明，本次電話會議中的所有數字均為非國際財務報告準則 (IFRS)，增長率和百分點變化均為非國際財務報告準則 (IFRS)，按固定貨幣計算的同比變化。

The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS. And with that, over to you Christian.

我們提供的非國際財務報告準則財務指標不應被視為替代或優於根據國際財務報告準則編製的財務績效指標。好了，就交給你了，克里斯蒂安。

Yeah. Thank you, Alexandra, and a warm welcome to everyone on the line. Q2 was another very good quarter with our Sapphire Conference as the main highlight.

是的。謝謝你，亞歷珊卓，熱烈歡迎大家的到來。第二季度又是一個非常好的季度，我們的藍寶石會議是主要亮點。

Let me start with two key messages. First, we are looking at a very solid set of Q2 numbers today. SAP was performing very well across all key financial indicators. Second, uncertainty in global markets from earlier this year remains, but SAP has an excellent pipeline for half year too in almost all markets and regions.

首先我想講兩個關鍵訊息。首先，我們今天看到了一組非常可靠的第二季數據。SAP 在所有關鍵財務指標上都表現非常出色。其次，今年稍早全球市場的不確定性仍然存在，但 SAP 在幾乎所有市場和地區都擁有半年的出色銷售管道。

In a few individual industries impacted by uncertainty, we are seeing extended approval workflows on the customer side, for example, in the US public sector and among manufacturers affected by tariffs. Whatever the market environment may bring, SAP is really well-prepared. We are taking big steps in product innovation and rapidly increasing our productivity with Business AI.

在一些受到不確定性影響的個別行業中，我們看到客戶端的審批工作流程延長，例如美國公共部門和受關稅影響的製造商。無論市場環境如何，SAP 都已做好充分準備。我們正在產品創新方面邁出重要一步，並利用商業人工智慧迅速提高生產力。

Before I go deeper into these topics, let's have a look at the Q2 numbers and customer highlights. In Q2, cloud revenue rose 28%, marking an increase of 2 percentage points compared with Q1. The cloud ERP suite once again drove this momentum for 14 quarters in a row, it has been consistently expanding at a rate of over 30%.

在我深入探討這些主題之前，讓我們先來看看第二季的數據和客戶亮點。第二季度，雲端營收成長28%，較第一季成長2個百分點。雲端 ERP 套件再次連續 14 個季度推動了這一勢頭，一直以超過 30% 的速度擴張。

Total revenue growth also continued to accelerate and reached 12%. Our current cloud backlog grew by 28% in Q2, despite the currency headwind, it came in at EUR18 billion.

總收入成長也持續加速，達到12%。儘管面臨貨幣逆風，我們目前的雲積壓訂單在第二季仍成長了 28%，達到了 180 億歐元。

Finally, our Q2 bottom line is a real highlight. Operating profit surged 35%. This is a testament to the strengths of SAP's business module and the lasting improvements we achieved in our cost space with our transformation program, which includes the internal adoption of Business AI.

最後，我們的第二季底線是一個真正的亮點。營業利潤飆升35%。這證明了 SAP 業務模組的優勢以及我們透過轉型計劃（包括內部採用業務 AI）在成本空間方面取得的持久改進。

The customer stories from Q2 add some nice color to the picture. They reflect the whole spectrum of what SAP has to offer, from cloud ERP for our installed base and net new customs to leading data and LoB solutions to our sovereignty, cloud offering, and much more.

第二季的客戶故事為這幅圖景增添了一些美麗的色彩。它們反映了 SAP 提供的全部服務，從針對我們已安裝基礎和新客戶的雲端 ERP，到領先的資料和 LoB 解決方案，再到我們的主權、雲端產品等等。

Let's start with our install based on the RISE journey. In Q2, Alibaba entered into a strategic partnership with SAP with a focus on two key areas. First, we will roll out the SAP business suite at Alibaba end to end, including BTP, Business AI, Ariba, Integrated Business Planning, SuccessFactors, and Emarsys.

讓我們從基於 RISE 旅程的安裝開始。第二季度，阿里巴巴與SAP達成策略夥伴關係，並聚焦在兩個關鍵領域。首先，我們將在阿里巴巴端到端推出 SAP 業務套件，包括 BTP、Business AI、Ariba、Integrated Business Planning、SuccessFactors 和 Emarsys。

Second, Alibaba, even more important, will become a partner for our RISE and GROW journeys. Together, we will be addressing the huge market potential in China, both among install based and net new customers.

第二，更重要的是，阿里巴巴將成為我們RISE和GROW旅程的合作夥伴。我們將共同努力，開拓中國龐大的市場潛力，包括現有客戶和新增客戶。

Other key wins in Q2 were the pharma company GSK and the fashion brands Balmain and Replay. A number of new customers also joined us via the GROW journey. Our wide range of net new customers included the American furniture company, Gardner-White and the fitness device maker, EGYM.

第二季的其他重要勝利包括製藥公司葛蘭素史克 (GSK) 以及時尚品牌 Balmain 和 Replay。許多新客戶也透過 GROW 之旅加入了我們。我們的新增客戶範圍廣泛，包括美國家具公司 Gardner-White 和健身器材製造商 EGYM。

Beyond cloud ERP, many net new customers are also embracing solutions from the business suite. The US construction company NIBCO and the live marketing company MCH, for example, signed up for HR and finance.

除了雲端 ERP 之外，許多新客戶也正在採用商業套件的解決方案。例如，美國建築公司 NIBCO 和現場行銷公司 MCH 簽約了人力資源和財務部門。

In our solution areas and LoBs, business was harming too. For example, nearly 300 cloud customers selected our digital supply chain solutions only in Q2, for example, the Air Line Delta. Nearly 100 customers selected our customer engagement platform, for example, BMW, who also went live on digital supply chain this quarter, and over 300 customers signed up for our human capital management solutions.

在我們的解決方案領域和業務線中，業務也受到了損害。例如僅在第二季度，就有近300家雲端客戶選擇了我們的數位供應鏈解決方案，例如達美航空。近100家客戶選擇了我們的客戶參與平台，例如BMW，本季也上線了數位供應鏈，超過300家客戶註冊了我們的人力資本管理解決方案。

The German Federal Pension Insurance opted for SuccessFactors in Q2. And the global cosmetics leader L'Oréal expanded their SuccessFactors footprint as well. Finally, the German armed forces signed up for SAP Project and Resource Management, Business AI, Analytics Cloud, LeanIX, and Signavio.

德國聯邦退休保險在第二季選擇了 SuccessFactors。全球化妝品領導者歐萊雅也擴大了其 SuccessFactors 的足跡。最後，德國武裝部隊簽署了 SAP 專案和資源管理、Business AI、Analytics Cloud、LeanIX 和 Signavio。

Let's now have a quick look at our top end cloud offering. In Q2, the German defense company HENSOLDT and the British defense and security leader BAE Systems were among the customers that embraced SAP's excellent software and cloud offering.

現在讓我們快速瀏覽一下我們的高階雲端產品。在第二季度，德國國防公司 HENSOLDT 和英國國防和安全領導者 BAE Systems 等客戶都採用了 SAP 出色的軟體和雲端產品。

The debate on digital sovereignty and the best way to achieve it has picked up speed in recent weeks. SAP stands out as the only vendor that can offer sovereignty over the entire stack from the infrastructure to the application. We also offer customers additional features on top, for example, EU access, bring your own key, and air gap.

近幾週來，有關數位主權及其最佳實現方式的爭論愈演愈烈。SAP 是唯一能夠提供從基礎架構到應用程式的整個堆疊主權的供應商。我們還為客戶提供額外的功能，例如歐盟存取、自備金鑰和氣隙。

Our platform runs on any hyperscaler and many local providers, but we also operate data centers of our own across the world. Our unique capabilities ensure that customers stay in control of their data at all times. They can be sure, regardless of how their local sovereignty requirements evolve, we will be able to meet them.

我們的平台可以在任何超大規模和許多本地供應商上運行，但我們也在世界各地運營自己的資料中心。我們獨特的功能確保客戶始終能夠控制自己的資料。他們可以確信，無論他們的當地主權要求如何發展，我們都能夠滿足他們。

Let me now conclude the customer stories with a very exciting topic, the SAP business data cloud. Many of the Q2 deals I have mentioned so far included BDC as a key component, including GSK, Replay, BAE Systems, and NIBCO. The software company Adobe selected our new data offering tool, and we are deepening our partnership with Palantir in the context of BDC.

現在，讓我用一個非常令人興奮的話題——SAP 業務資料雲——來結束客戶故事。到目前為止，我提到的許多 Q2 交易都將 BDC 作為關鍵組成部分，包括 GSK、Replay、BAE Systems 和 NIBCO。軟體公司 Adob​​e 選擇了我們的新數據提供工具，我們正在 BDC 背景下深化與 Palantir 的合作。

All taken together, this makes for a great start. Only a few months after we launched, the pipeline for business data cloud is skyrocketing. For all our customers in all geographies, we have one goal, we want to help them to take full advantage of the SAP business suite for their company. And with each innovation we add, the business suite becomes even more attractive.

總而言之，這是一個好的開始。我們推出後僅幾個月，業務資料雲的管道就急劇成長。對於所有地區的所有客戶，我們都有一個目標，那就是幫助他們充分利用 SAP 業務套件為其公司服務。隨著我們不斷增加的每一個創新，商務套件變得更具吸引力。

In Q2, well over half of our cloud order and volume came from deals that included AI use cases. And every hour, every day, more customers go live. ABB, for example, is using SAP business AI to bring down the time to create price quotes for larger products from 15 days and more to only one day. Siemens is using tool for consultants to speed up the transition to S/4HANA cloud.

在第二季度，我們超過一半的雲端訂單和交易量來自包含 AI 用例的交易。每小時、每天，都有更多的客戶上線。例如，ABB 正在使用 SAP 業務 AI 將大型產品的報價建立時間從 15 天以上縮短至僅需一天。西門子正在使用顧問工具來加速向 S/4HANA 雲端的過渡。

And the Australian utility company SA Power Network leverages SAP business AI to maintain its vast network of electricity poles in a targeted efficient manner, for example, with predictive maintenance techniques. With the next generation of innovation now arriving with customers, we expect business AI adoption to further speed up.

澳洲公用事業公司 SA Power Network 利用 SAP 業務 AI 以有針對性的高效方式維護其龐大的電線桿網絡，例如採用預測性維護技術。隨著下一代創新技術逐漸出現在客戶面前，我們預期商業人工智慧的採用將進一步加速。

In half year one, we released our first 14 AI agents. For example, an agent for the Commerce Cloud instructed by a natural language, the agent helps online shop customers to find exactly the items they look for, no more clicking through pages of product pictures. The result is higher customers with satisfaction and better sales conversion.

第一年半年，我們發布了首批 14 個 AI 代理程式。例如，Commerce Cloud 的代理商透過自然語言進行指導，幫助網路商店的顧客準確找到他們想要的商品，而無需再點擊多頁產品圖片。結果是客戶滿意度更高，銷售轉換率更好。

Other agents released so far help customers to create quotes, streamline customer service, resolve dispute cases, analyze open receivables, and validate expense reports. By the end of the year, we expect the total number of available AI agents to reach 40.

迄今為止發布的其他代理商可協助客戶建立報價、簡化客戶服務、解決糾紛案件、分析未清應收帳款並驗證費用報告。到今年年底，我們預計可用的 AI 代理總數將達到 40 個。

The agents will work across business functions, addressing all buying centers. In finance, for instance, our agents will streamline financial planning, ensure that accruals are automatically calculated and proactively identify cash shortages. And in supply chain management, upcoming agents will keep production moving, for example, by recommending and onboarding suppliers and proactively responding to shop floor disruptions.

代理商將跨業務職能開展工作，負責所有採購中心。例如在財務方面，我們的代理商將簡化財務規劃，確保自動計算應計項目並主動識別現金短缺。在供應鏈管理中，即將到來的代理商將保持生產的順利進行，例如，透過推薦和引入供應商以及主動應對車間中斷。

As for Joule, our Sapphire announcements are starting to become available to customers. Joule will be available everywhere across SAP and non-SAP systems, starting in Q3, thanks to the integration with WalkMe. And it will also be giving answers to everything starting in Q4, powered by our partnership with Perplexity.

至於 Joule，我們的 Sapphire 公告已開始向客戶發布。由於與 WalkMe 的集成，從第三季度開始，Joule 將在 SAP 和非 SAP 系統中隨處可用。在我們與 Perplexity 合作的支持下，它也將從第四季度開始解答所有問題。

With regard to data products for the business data cloud, we are making very good progress as well. As of today, we have released more than 100 rebuilt SAP managed data products covering finance, sales, manufacturing, and logistics. And by the end of the year, we will more than double that, covering our entire business suite.

在業務資料雲的資料產品方面，我們也取得了非常好的進展。截至今天，我們已經發布了100多個重建的SAP管理數據產品，涵蓋財務、銷售、製造和物流。到今年年底，我們的業務範圍將擴大一倍以上，涵蓋整個業務套件。

These data products underpin our intelligent applications for core ERP, spend, finance, people, customer, and supply chain that bring together data, business simulations, and AI capabilities. Every day, we are expanding our innovation footprint in the data and business AI space.

這些數據產品支撐了我們的核心 ERP、支出、財務、人員、客戶和供應鏈的智慧應用程序，將數據、業務模擬和 AI 功能結合在一起。我們每天都在擴大我們在數據和商業人工智慧領域的創新足跡。

Now, coming to our own transformation, of course, SAP also uses business AI internally to boost productivity. This is reflected in the solid expansion of our operating profit.

現在談到我們自己的轉型，當然，SAP 也在內部使用商業 AI 來提高生產力。這體現在我們營業利潤的穩定成長。

We are decoupling expense growth from revenue growth, thanks to our transformation program. Three examples for internal AI use cases. Our digital sales engagement platform, powered by Joule increases productivity by up to 50% for selected sales roles. Thanks to Joule for SuccessFactors, HR tickets are now resolved in up to 20% less time. And with Joule for developers, coders at SAP are becoming up to 30% more efficient. This is the beginning.

由於我們的轉型計劃，我們正在將費用成長與收入成長脫鉤。內部 AI 用例的三個範例。我們的數位銷售參與平台由 Joule 提供支持，可將選定銷售職位的生產力提高高達 50%。由於 Joule 的 SuccessFactors，人力資源票證的解決時間現在減少了 20%。借助 Joule 為開發人員提供的支持，SAP 的編碼人員的效率提高了 30%。這才是開始。

It is already clear that AI will further increase productivity at SAP and in many other companies. And it will start to change shops and shop profiles. This is why it is so important to keep evolving and transforming our workforce in a continuous process.

顯然，人工智慧將進一步提高 SAP 和許多其他公司的生產力。它將開始改變商店和商店概況。這就是為什麼持續發展和改造我們的勞動力如此重要。

As before, this transformation includes reskilling component, reductions in areas with lower resource demand and hiring in shop profiles that define the future of our company, such as data and Business AI. To summarize, we achieved an outstanding Q2 despite market uncertainty.

與以前一樣，這種轉型包括重新培訓部分、減少資源需求較低的領域以及招募決定公司未來的員工，例如數據和商業人工智慧。總而言之，儘管市場存在不確定性，我們仍取得了出色的第二季業績。

Since it is difficult to predict how this market environment will exactly evolve, we continue to focus on what makes us successful in the mid and the long term. With our data and AI innovations, we are strengthening our portfolio and there's more to come.

由於很難預測這種市場環境究竟會如何發展，我們將持續關注那些能讓我們中期和長期成功的因素。憑藉數據和人工智慧創新，我們正在加強我們的產品組合，並且未來將有更多產品。

Our AI-enabled go-to-market transformation is moving ahead with speed, and we remain very diligent about simplification. The AI-powered transformation of our workforce continues. Thanks to ongoing operating efficiencies, we are able to do more with a leaner headcount. All this means that SAP is very well-prepared for the second half of 2025 and for the coming year. And with that, I'm handing over to you, Dominik.

我們由人工智慧支援的市場轉型正在快速推進，我們仍然非常努力地進行簡化。我們的勞動力正持續受到人工智慧的驅動轉型。由於持續的營運效率，我們能夠以更精簡的員工團隊完成更多工作。這一切意味著 SAP 已經為 2025 年下半年及未來一年做好了充分的準備。現在，我將把麥克風交給你，多明尼克。

Thank you very much, Christian, and thank you all for joining us this evening. As you can see from some of the financial results Christian just shared, SAP delivered another great quarter, highlighted by accelerating total revenue growth and continued strength in both operating profit and free cash flow. This further reinforces the strength and consistency of the execution of our strategy.

非常感謝你，克里斯蒂安，也感謝大家今晚加入我們。從 Christian 剛剛分享的一些財務結果可以看出，SAP 又一個季度表現出色，突出表現是總收入成長加速以及營業利潤和自由現金流持續強勁。這進一步增強了我們策略執行的力度和一致性。

The ongoing momentum of Cloud ERP Suite and the impact of our strict cost discipline were again key contributors to this performance. Together, they reflect the resilience of our business model and our ability to deliver consistent results in a dynamic and uncertain environment.

雲端 ERP 套件的持續發展勢頭以及我們嚴格的成本控制的影響再次成為這一業績的關鍵因素。它們共同反映了我們商業模式的彈性以及我們在動態和不確定的環境中提供一致結果的能力。

Our strategy is working, and our offerings remain mission-critical to customers as they pursue their transformation towards cloud-based business models. Now let me provide more details around our financial highlights. Current cloud backlog reached EUR18.1 billion, up 28%. Cloud revenue increased also by 28% year on year. This was again driven by the strong performance of the Cloud ERP Suite, which continued to deliver 34% growth in Q2.

我們的策略正在發揮作用，在客戶轉型為基於雲端的業務模式的過程中，我們的產品對客戶仍然至關重要。現在讓我提供有關我們財務亮點的更多細節。目前雲端運算積壓訂單達181億歐元，成長28%。雲端收入也較去年同期成長了28%。這再次得益於雲端 ERP 套件的強勁表現，其在第二季度繼續實現了 34% 的成長。

This represents 86% of total cloud revenue, underscoring its role as a foundational part of our cloud business. As we look towards half year two, we are mindful of the broader environment, including in geopolitical developments, notably the ongoing uncertainty about trade policy that has contributed to elongated sales cycles in certain sectors, such as US public sector and industrial manufacturing.

這佔雲端業務總收入的 86%，凸顯了其作為我們雲端業務基礎部分的作用。展望第二年上半年，我們關注更廣泛的環境，包括地緣政治發展，特別是貿易政策的持續不確定性，這導致某些產業（如美國公共部門和工業製造業）的銷售週期延長。

The sequential 1 percentage point deceleration in current cloud backlog growth is underscoring the dampening effect on bookings in Q2. It is obviously hard, if not impossible, to predict when exactly we'll catch up on the pushouts.

目前雲端運算積壓訂單成長連續 1 個百分點減速，凸顯了第二季訂單的抑制效應。顯然，即使不是不可能，我們仍然很難預測我們什麼時候才能趕上進度。

Closing these open opportunities will be a focus in half year two, where we, as you will recall, usually close roughly two-thirds of our annual new cloud business. Unfortunately, we have no crystal ball to reliably predict global trade policy decision-making. And it goes without saying that the longer this uncertainty persists, the more pressure it is likely to put on global trade and our customers' ability to make well-informed decisions.

完成這些開放的機會將成為第二半年的重點，正如你們所記得的，我們通常會完成大約三分之二的年度新雲端業務。不幸的是，我們沒有水晶球來可靠地預測全球貿易政策決策。毋庸置疑，這種不確定性持續的時間越長，它對全球貿易和我們的客戶做出明智決策的能力所造成的壓力就越大。

So while capital markets appear to be optimistic and continue to perform at or near all-time highs, we do prepare SAP for less favorable outcomes by focusing on elements within our control to protect our bottom line and safeguarding free cash flow in 2025. These priorities will ensure SAP remains resilient and well positioned regardless of how external conditions evolve.

因此，儘管資本市場看似樂觀，並繼續保持或接近歷史最高水平，但我們確實為 SAP 做好了應對不太有利結果的準備，重點關注我們可控制的因素，以保護我們的底線並保障 2025 年的自由現金流。這些優先事項將確保 SAP 無論外部條件如何變化，都能保持彈性並處於有利地位。

Software licenses revenue decreased by 13% in Q2, in line with the strategy we pursue. The pace of contraction remained relatively stable as customers increasingly advance their transformation journeys with RISE and GROW with SAP towards the cloud.

軟體授權收入在第二季下降了 13%，這符合我們所推行的策略。隨著客戶越來越多地透過 RISE 和 GROW 向 SAP 雲端推進轉型之旅，收縮速度保持相對穩定。

Finally, total revenue came in at EUR9 billion, up 12%, driven by broad-based strength, particularly within our share of more predictable revenue, which increased to 86%. Now let's take a brief look at our regional performance. In Q2, SAP's cloud revenue performance was particularly strong in the APJ and EMEA region and solid in the Americas.

最後，總收入達到 90 億歐元，成長 12%，這得益於廣泛的力量，特別是我們更可預測的收入份額，增至 86%。現在讓我們簡單回顧一下我們的區域表現。第二季度，SAP 的雲端營收表現在 APJ 和 EMEA 地區尤為強勁，在美洲地區也表現穩健。

Brazil, Chile, France, India, Italy, South Korea, and Spain had outstanding performance. Now moving down to the income statement. Our non-IFRS cloud gross margin for the quarter continued its upward trend, expanding by 1.8 percentage points to 75.2%, driving cloud gross profit up by 31%.

巴西、智利、法國、印度、義大利、韓國、西班牙等表現突出。現在轉到損益表。本季度，我們非國際財務報告準則下的雲毛利率延續上升趨勢，擴大1.8個百分點至75.2%，帶動雲毛利成長31%。

IFRS operating profit increased to EUR2.5 billion in the quarter, positively impacted by restructuring expense decline of EUR0.6 billion as compared to the prior year in connection with the 2024 transformation program. In the second quarter, non-IFRS operating profit was up 35% to EUR2.6 billion.

本季度，國際財務報告準則下的營業利潤增至 25 億歐元，這得益於與 2024 年轉型計畫相關的重組費用較上年同期下降 6 億歐元。第二季度，非國際財務報告準則營業利益成長35%，達到26億歐元。

Both IFRS and non-IFRS operating profit growth strongly benefited from cloud revenue growth and expanding cloud revenue growth march and a significant reduction in share-based compensation expenses. In fact, we have been able to reduce share-based compensation expenses by EUR331 million or 26% in the first six months of 2025 as compared to the same period last year by allocating grounds in a more targeted fashion and largely hedging the residual cash settle part of it through April of this year.

IFRS 和非 IFRS 營業利潤成長均強勁受益於雲端收入成長、雲端收入成長步伐的擴大以及股權激勵費用的大幅減少。事實上，透過更有針對性地分配理由，並在很大程度上對沖截至今年 4 月的剩餘現金結算部分，我們已能夠在 2025 年上半年將股權激勵費用減少 3.31 億歐元（26%），與去年同期相比。

Recall that in the last year, we had a significant headwind from share-based compensation expenses as the last major cash settle tranches were mark-to-market while our share price increased by roughly 50% in half year one of 2024. The IFRS effective tax rate in Q2 was 30.1% and the non-IFRS tax rate was 30.8%. Operating cash flow in the second quarter was up by 71% to EUR2.6 billion, and free cash flow increased by 83% to EUR2.4 billion.

回想一下，去年，我們面臨著來自股權激勵費用的巨大阻力，因為最後幾筆主要現金結算款項是按市價計價的，而我們的股價在 2024 年第一年上半年上漲了約 50%。第二季IFRS有效稅率為30.1%，非IFRS稅率為30.8%。第二季經營現金流量成長71%至26億歐元，自由現金流成長83%至24億歐元。

The increase was mainly attributable to the higher profitability and the positive development of working capital, lower payouts for share-based compensation, restructuring payments, and income tax payments. Finally, basic IFRS earnings per share increased to EUR1.45, and non-IFRS earnings per share increased to EUR1.50.

成長主要歸因於獲利能力的提高和營運資本的積極發展，以及股權激勵支出、重組支出和所得稅支出的減少。最後，基本 IFRS 每股盈餘增加至 1.45 歐元，非 IFRS 每股盈餘增加至 1.50 歐元。

Now let's move on to the outlook. As you've likely seen in the quarterly statement published earlier today, we've decided to keep our 2025 outlook unchanged across all metrics. In summary, Q2 reflects another leap forward for SAP, marked by continued strong momentum in our Cloud ERP Suite, resulting in accelerated total revenue growth and strong margin expansion.

現在讓我們來談談展望。正如您可能在今天早些時候發布的季度聲明中看到的那樣，我們決定維持 2025 年所有指標的展望不變。總而言之，第二季度反映了 SAP 的另一個飛躍，其特點是我們的雲端 ERP 套件繼續保持強勁發展勢頭，從而加速了總收入的成長並實現了強勁的利潤率擴張。

These results are a clear indication that our priorities are translating into consistent execution and measurable progress. We remain focused on disciplined execution, cost control and protecting our bottom line and free cash flow for the remainder of the year.

這些結果清楚地表明，我們的優先事項正在轉化為持續的執行和可衡量的進展。在今年剩餘時間內，我們將繼續專注於嚴格執行、控製成本以及保護我們的底線和自由現金流。

With the first half complete, we are focused on sustaining momentum and closing the year with strength amidst the volatile and uncertain macro environment. Thank you, and we'll now be happy to take your questions.

上半年已經過去，在動盪和不確定的宏觀環境中，我們專注於保持發展勢頭，以強勁的勢頭結束這一年。謝謝，我們現在很樂意回答您的問題。

All right. We will now take your questions. As always, I would like to kindly remind you to only ask one question when prompted. Operator, please open the line.

好的。我們現在將回答大家的提問。像往常一樣，我想善意地提醒您，在被提示時只問一個問題。接線員，請接通線路。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Adam Wood, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的亞當伍德。

Congratulations on another good quarter. If I could just maybe dig in on the operating margin and the EBIT growth for the second half of the year. Obviously, you've had a phenomenal first half with margins at around 8% and then 5% in Q1 and Q2. If my back-of-the-envelope is right, it looks as if we're looking for more likes of 2%, 2.5% increases in margins in the second half.

恭喜您又一個季度取得好成績。我是否可以深入了解今年下半年的營業利潤率和息稅前利潤成長？顯然，你們上半年的業績表現非常出色，利潤率達到 8% 左右，第一季和第二季的利潤率也達到 5%。如果我的推測沒錯的話，看起來我們預計下半年利潤率將增加 2% 至 2.5%。

Obviously, Christian, you've talked about decoupling revenues and expenses and the benefits of consuming your own technology internally, but I imagine there's some nervousness in terms of how the macro turns out and also some desire to invest for growth.

顯然，克里斯蒂安，您談到了收入和支出脫鉤以及內部使用自己的技術的好處，但我想對於宏觀結果會有一些緊張情緒，同時也有一些為增長而投資的願望。

Could you maybe just talk us through how those things play off against each other? How much caution is in there in terms of that big step-down in margin improvement in the second half of the year, please?

您能否向我們講講這些事情是如何相互影響的？請問，對於下半年利潤率大幅下降的情況，需要多大的謹慎？

Yeah, sure. I'm happy to have a stab at that. So first of all, let's not forget that one important factor of the strong performance in operating profit in the first half of the year was that kind of EUR331 million improvement in stock-based compensation.

是的，當然。我很高興能嘗試一下。首先，我們不要忘記，上半年營業利潤表現強勁的一個重要因素是股票薪資增加了 3.31 億歐元。

You recall that we said we want to end up the year at about EUR2 billion. We had EUR2.4 billion last year, so we basically said at about EUR0.4 billion improvement that will come from stock-based compensation and the lion's share of that is kind of hitting H1.

您還記得我們說過，我們希望今年的營收達到約 20 億歐元。去年我們的收入為 24 億歐元，因此我們基本上說，約 4 億歐元的成長將來自股票薪酬，其中大部分將在上半年實現。

The reason being that, as I mentioned in my introductory remarks that the headwind we had last year was very kind of first half year-centric. So we have kind of much easier comps in the first half than in the second half on that factor. Secondly, we will continue to fine-tune and adjust our workforce. You mentioned the AI transformation being in full swing. So that means that on one hand, there will be hiring, so there are resources we need to get on board to future-proof the company.

原因在於，正如我在開場白中提到的那樣，我們去年遇到的逆風主要集中在上半年。因此，從這個因素來看，我們上半年的比較比下半年容易得多。第二，繼續做好隊伍建立與調整。您提到人工智慧轉型正在如火如荼地進行中。這意味著，一方面，我們需要招聘，因此我們需要獲得資源來確保公司的未來發展。

On the other hand, after having now completed this massive restructuring program in the first quarter, we will probably see, going forward, continuous adjustment, I would call it optimization of a much smaller magnitude.

另一方面，在第一季完成這項大規模重組計劃之後，我們可能會看到未來持續的調整，我稱之為規模小得多的優化。

So you can think of the kind of 1% to 2% of workforce annual adjustments. And we cannot rule out that there might be some severance payment for the one or the other position in certain geographies here. So that will also be kind of happening. And that will not be an adjustment to our non-IFRS operating profit because that will be, I always say like brushing teeth going forward, this will not be something that is very special.

因此，你可以考慮每年 1% 到 2% 的勞動力調整。我們不能排除在某些地區對某個職位可能需要支付遣散費的情況。所以這也會發生。這不會對我們的非國際財務報告準則營業利潤進行調整，因為我總是說，這就像刷牙一樣，不會是一件非常特別的事。

By doing that, we want to avoid actually having to kind of, every now and then, make a huge restructuring, but rather continuously adjust as we move along. So these are the factors that I want to call out. So I would say the full year guidance is solidly on track, so no reason to get overly excited about that.

透過這樣做，我們希望避免時不時地進行大規模重組，而是在前進的過程中不斷進行調整。這些就是我想指出的因素。所以我想說，全年的預期是穩步實現的，所以沒有理由對此過於興奮。

And obviously, the other question is always where exactly will we end up on the cloud revenue side. And yes, I think that protects us also for kind of lower outcomes in case the trade disputes we alluded to would continue to weigh on sentiment here.

顯然，另一個問題始終是我們在雲端收入方面最終會達到什麼水平。是的，我認為如果我們提到的貿易爭端繼續影響這裡的情緒，這也可以保護我們免受較低的結果的影響。

Yeah. And maybe, Adam, just to build on that, we are just in the, of course, in the planning process for the upcoming years for the next two years. And obviously, Dominik and I have given the team also now the task to say how can we further decouple the expense growth from the accelerated total revenue growth we are going to achieve in the next years. And I mean, think about the cloud gross margin. I mean, we just achieved that by economies of scale.

是的。亞當，也許只是為了在此基礎上再接再厲，我們當然正在為未來幾年和未來兩年做規劃。顯然，多明尼克和我現在也為團隊佈置了一項任務，即如何進一步將費用成長與未來幾年要實現的加速總收入成長脫鉤。我的意思是，考慮一下雲端的毛利率。我的意思是，我們只是透過規模經濟實現了這個目標。

An EUR18 billion backlog signals there is more to come. But when you think about onboarding customers, patching customers, when you think about servicing customers, I mean there is almost like a digital twin to our operations people who helps to further automate this task by a significant percentage point. And then second, I mean, when you are in support solving tickets, ticket routing, ticket solving,

180 億歐元的積壓訂單預示著未來還會有更多訂單。但是，當您考慮接納客戶、修補客戶、為客戶提供服務時，我的意思是，對於我們的營運人員來說，這幾乎就像一個數位孿生，可以幫助進一步將這項任務的自動化程度提高一個顯著的百分比。其次，我的意思是，當你在支援解決工單、工單路由、工單解決時，

I mean, there's more to come and what we are seeing with Joule and when we are now building these agents, I mean, what we expect is actually that AI will be a further productivity driver also in the years to come, for sure. And that is also, I guess, very important for our credibility. When we go to customers to showcase, hey, this is how SAP wants and this is our transformation.

我的意思是，未來還會有更多，而且我們在 Joule 上看到的情況以及我們現在構建這些代理的情況，我的意思是，我們實際上預計人工智慧肯定會在未來幾年成為進一步的生產力驅動力。我想，這對我們的信譽也非常重要。當我們向客戶展示時，嘿，這就是 SAP 想要的，這就是我們的轉型。

And that is, of course, also our major goal when it comes to margin optimization for the years to come. And obviously then, it's our obligation to always look at our workforce and do our job and do some cynical, very distinct measures on reducing profiles where we don't need the people anymore.

當然，這也是我們未來幾年利潤優化的主要目標。顯然，我們有義務時刻關注我們的員工隊伍，做好我們的工作，並採取一些明確的措施來減少我們不再需要的人員。

But on the other hand, of course, when it comes to agentic AI, you wouldn't believe how many customers are now coming and say, hey SAP, I need Joule. I don't need customer AI use cases. I don't even know how to train all of that and how to improve the outcome. And this is why we need also, on the consulting side, very dedicated people who can help us to drive the change management with the customers and to implement all of these agents at the business of our customers.

但另一方面，當然，當談到代理 AI 時，你不會相信現在有多少客戶會說，嘿 SAP，我需要 Joule。我不需要客戶 AI 用例。我什至不知道如何訓練所有這些以及如何改善結果。這就是為什麼我們在諮詢方面也需要非常敬業的人才，他們可以幫助我們推動與客戶的變革管理，並在客戶的業務中實施所有這些代理。

Mark Moerdler, Bernstein Research.

伯恩斯坦研究公司 (Bernstein Research) 的馬克‧莫德勒 (Mark Moerdler)。

Congratulations on the quarter. I'd like to drill a little more on the substantial margin improvement that we saw this quarter. We saw it in cloud gross margin. We saw it in the sales and marketing and R&D as a percentage of revenue. Can you give us a color, Dominik, how you think long term about the sustainability of those improvements, especially as you invest in AI? And how much more room you think there is for continuing to drive that margin improvement?

恭喜本季。我想進一步深入探討本季我們看到的利潤率大幅提高的情況。我們在雲毛利率中看到了這一點。我們看到銷售、行銷和研發佔收入的百分比。多明尼克，您能否告訴我們，您如何看待這些改進的長期可持續性，特別是在您投資人工智慧的情況下？您認為利潤率還有多少持續提升的空間？

Yeah, sure. I mean, I can say that now with more confidence because as Christian mentioned, we are now kind of starting to sharp the pencil for the planning exercise for the coming years. And I just always come back and I'm glad to say that won't change. Our operating leverage, i.e., the increase in total expenses versus the increase in revenues will be contained in the range of 80% to 90%. And that is the kind of yardstick for coming years.

是的，當然。我的意思是，我現在可以更有信心地說這一點，因為正如克里斯蒂安所提到的，我們現在開始為未來幾年的規劃做準備。我總是回來，我很高興地說這不會改變。我們的營運槓桿，即總支出增幅與收入增幅的比率，將控制在80%至90%的範圍內。這就是未來幾年的標準。

Now we have been doing much more than that now with the big restructuring. We have executed through Q1 of this year. That was 10,000 jobs being eliminated. As I just stated, while there might be some continuous fine-tuning at a much smaller degree, which will then also not be kind of fully be embarked on non-IFRS operating profit, that will enable us to get there. So our confidence level on being able to reach these operating leverage ratios is quite high.

現在，透過大規模重組，我們所做的已經遠遠超出了上述範圍。我們已經執行到了今年第一季。這意味著有 10,000 個工作崗位被裁減。正如我剛才所說，雖然可能會在較小程度上進行一些持續的微調，但這也不會完全實現非國際財務報告準則下的營業利潤，但這將使我們能夠實現這一目標。因此，我們對達到這些經營槓桿率的信心相當高。

And now where exactly when we'll end up in that range also for '26, that is something we want to really hone in when we communicate the guidance for 2026. But it's the best kind of rough yardstick I can give you at present for these coming years. And how it's distributed, I mean, we never go into details because we want to keep the flexibility. Sometimes you want to kind of push harder on incentives. Sometimes, we want to give more marketing incentives.

現在，我們究竟什麼時候才能達到這個範圍，對於 26 年來說，這是我們在傳達 2026 年指導方針時真正想要解決的問題。但這是我目前能給的關於未來幾年的最佳粗略標準。至於它是如何分佈的，我的意思是，我們從不深入討論細節，因為我們想保持靈活性。有時你會想加大激勵力度。有時，我們希望給予更多的行銷誘因。

But the pecking order is still that the biggest percent improvement in operating leverage is in selling expenses. And then there is also still some improvement potential, we believe, on the R&D side and then also some on G&A.

但優先順序仍是，經營槓桿率提高幅度最大的是銷售費用。我們認為，在研發方面以及一般和行政管理方面仍有一些改進的潛力。

On the gross margin, you've seen a pretty favorable development. We were really pleased with the massive expansion we've seen in Q2, 1.8%. That's really good news because we talk about pushing cloud and then also giving transformation incentives.

就毛利率而言，您已經看到了相當有利的發展。我們對第二季 1.8% 的大幅擴張感到非常高興。這確實是個好消息，因為我們談論推動雲端運算，然後還提供轉型誘因。

I mean, that's all embarked in that number. So all of that is absorbed and still we kind of come to the 1.8% gross margin improvement. Now that will become a slower, much slower gradient going forward because the one-off extra effects that we were benefiting from in the past might not reoccur. But still that's also part of the kind of grinding up the margin.

我的意思是，這一切都已包含在這個數字中。因此，所有這些都被吸收了，但我們仍然實現了 1.8% 的毛利率成長。現在，這一進程將變得更加緩慢，因為我們過去受益的一次性額外效應可能不會再次出現。但這也是利潤削減的一部分。

Jackson Ader, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

傑克遜·阿德（Jackson Ader），KeyBanc 資本市場。

Christian, I'd like to spend a couple of minutes on the Alibaba partnership that you mentioned in your prepared remarks. Just curious, how large is your Chinese footprint today? And I guess, are there any more details or maybe mechanics on the go-to-market motion how this partnership is actually going to work with Alibaba? And maybe how large is that Chinese total addressable market for SAP?

克里斯蒂安，我想花幾分鐘談談您在準備好的演講中提到的阿里巴巴合作夥伴關係。只是好奇，你今天的中國足跡有多大？我想問一下，關於這次與阿里巴巴的合作如何實際運作，有沒有更多細節或機制？那麼 SAP 在中國的潛在市場總量到底有多大？

Yeah. I mean, the China market, we have to look at it from two angles. First, you have to see that 90% of the multinationals, we are running also outside of China doing business in China. Because of the trade conflicts, I mean, obviously, they are looking for solutions to further drive productivity in China for China in their factories, to improve their logistics, to get more supply chain resiliency. But they need to decouple it, to a certain extent, to mitigate risk.

是的。我的意思是，我們必須從兩個角度來看中國市場。首先，你必須看到，90%的跨國公司也在中國境外開展業務。由於貿易衝突，我的意思是，顯然，他們正在尋找解決方案，以進一步提高其在中國的工廠的生產力，改善其物流，提高供應鏈的彈性。但他們需要在一定程度上將其分離，以降低風險。

And there, of course, Alibaba is now key because we have now also a Chinese partner with us where we can really deliver our cloud in China for China. Then the Chinese customers itself, I mean, there are many, many tech companies where we open for moving with us to the cloud.

當然，阿里巴巴現在是關鍵，因為我們現在也有中國合作夥伴，我們可以真正為中國提供我們的雲端服務。然後是中國客戶本身，我的意思是，有很多科技公司願意與我們一起遷移到雲端。

They need SAP also to globalize their business. I mean, also a car manufacturer like BYD, they started rather small and now they became very big on our platform. And so while, of course, the market is still smaller compared to US or Germany, actually, the growth what we are seeing is quite considerable.

他們還需要 SAP 來實現業務全球化。我的意思是，像比亞迪這樣的汽車製造商，他們一開始規模很小，但現在在我們的平台上變得非常大。當然，雖然與美國或德國相比，市場規模仍然較小，但實際上，我們看到的成長相當可觀。

And of course, with such a partnership, we definitely want to now see how we can join forces on go-to-market. And it's not only about the large enterprises, it's also about the upper mid-market, which we want to capture and hopefully then also can win together with Alibaba. So I have huge hopes. And then, of course, over the time, let's see with Ali.

當然，有了這樣的合作關係，我們現在肯定想看看我們如何能夠聯手進入市場。這不僅涉及大型企業，還涉及中高端市場，我們希望佔領這些市場，並希望能夠與阿里巴巴共同獲勝。所以我抱持著很大的希望。然後，當然，隨著時間的推移，讓我們看看阿里的情況。

I mean, we see also now customers in Asia, even in EMEA also asking for our partnership with Ali. So let's see what we are going to do, but the first focus is now to make it work in China for China.

我的意思是，我們現在也看到亞洲的客戶，甚至歐洲、中東和非洲的客戶也在要求我們與阿里建立合作關係。所以讓我們看看我們將要做什麼，但現在的首要重點是讓它在中國發揮作用，為中國服務。

I mean, in terms of revenues, we don't disclose China-specific revenues, but it's included, of course, in what we call rest of APJ, which I just checked is about 10% of our revenues. And of course, not all of that is China. So if you want to pick the middle as a wild guess, you come to mid-single-digit kind of contribution very roughly. And you also see the growth rates for these regions, which are reasonable. But we don't have, by far, the same business size as we have in the United States, where we generated 31% of revenues in Q2.

我的意思是，就收入而言，我們不會透露中國的具體收入，但它當然包括在我們所謂的 APJ 其他地區，我剛剛查過，這約占我們收入的 10%。當然，這並不全是中國。因此，如果您想選擇中間值進行大膽猜測，那麼您會非常粗略地得出中等個位數的貢獻。您還可以看到這些地區的成長率是合理的。但到目前為止，我們的業務規模還不及美國，我們在美國第二季創造了 31% 的收入。

Toby Ogg, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的托比·奧格。

Michael Briest, UBS.

瑞銀集團的麥可·布里斯特。

Congratulations as well. Dominik, another really good quarter on cash flow. Contract liabilities, I think the cash inflow is up about 400 million year on year. And I know at Sapphire, you were talking about the impact of transformation credits. Can you maybe say whether those are related? And in terms of the unwinding of that transformation credit balance, what size is it today and what impact might it have on cash flow next year?

也恭喜你。多明尼克，這又是一個現金流表現非常好的季度。合約負債，我覺得現金流入年增了4億左右。我知道在 Sapphire，您正在談論轉型信貸的影響。您能否說一下它們是否相關？就轉型信貸餘額的解除而言，目前其規模為何？對明年的現金流可能產生什麼影響？

Yeah. I mean, on the transformation credit, again, just to make sure we're all on the same page what this is all about, when we are signing deals, in certain situations, we are granting a credit to the customer, which is basically a cash voucher to offset some of the non-recurring project costs they have in transforming or adding some of our lines of business or moving to the public cloud as examples.

是的。我的意思是，關於轉型信貸，再次強調，只是為了確保我們都對這一切達成共識，當我們簽署協議時，在某些情況下，我們會向客戶提供信貸，這基本上是一張現金券，以抵消他們在轉型或增加我們的一些業務線或遷移到公共雲時產生的一些非經常性項目成本。

And then what we do is we take that kind of value of the voucher and we amortize or we spread it over the term of the deal. And then if it's used in early innings, there is, of course, a certain hedge conversion negative in that early phase, which is then recovered. So over the life of the full transaction, basically, it's awash, it's a kind of mutual cash conversion.

然後我們所做的就是獲取代金券的這種價值，並將其攤銷或分攤到交易期限內。然後，如果它在早期階段使用，那麼當然，在早期階段會產生一定的對沖轉換負面影響，然後會恢復。因此，在整個交易過程中，基本上，它是一種相互的現金轉換。

And we don't disclose details on how big that is, that would be also competitively quite sensitive. It's just one part of our working capital management. So the way I really want to think about it also in terms of what we should look at for 2026 is to really start from non-IFRS operating profit.

我們不會透露具體規模，因為這在競爭中也相當敏感。這只是我們營運資金管理的一部分。因此，我真正想思考的是，就我們應該如何看待 2026 年而言，應該從非國際財務報告準則的營業利潤開始。

And then, of course, for that next year, we need to embark a reasonable currency assumption. You know that on the cash flow, we are hedging that and why we have been able to hedge at very good rates for free cash flow in 2025.

當然，對於明年，我們需要製定合理的貨幣假設。您知道，在現金流方面，我們正在對其進行對沖，以及為什麼我們能夠以非常好的利率對沖 2025 年的自由現金流。

And now we need to still hedge for 2026, in the remainder of the year and maybe even in the early innings of '26 when the planning is finalized, so we have a very solid base for that. So these are all the elements we need to take into account. So we start from non-IFRS operating profit.

現在我們仍然需要為 2026 年、今年剩餘時間甚至 26 年初規劃最終確定時做好對沖，因此我們為此打下了非常堅實的基礎。這些都是我們需要考慮的因素。因此，我們從非國際財務報告準則的營業利潤開始。

We deduct taxes and the current tax rates, you see a pretty reasonable proxy of what they might be also in '26. And then there is always that offset between the cash and the P&L on stock-based comp, which is adding around about 1 billion.

我們扣除稅金和目前稅率，您會看到 26 年的稅率可能相當合理。然後，現金和股票薪酬的損益之間總是存在抵消，這增加了約 10 億美元。

You can also see that we did a little bit more than 0.5 billion in the first half of the year in terms of positive contribution to cash conversion from stock-based comp. And then I would not really overemphasize the attribution of the puts and takes every quarter because they can be quite -- they are volatile sometimes, seasonal sometimes.

您也可以看到，就股票型公司現金轉換的正面貢獻而言，我們上半年的貢獻略高於 5 億。然後，我不會過度強調每個季度看跌期權和獲利期權的歸因，因為它們可能相當不穩定，有時具有季節性。

There is a lot of information actually in the balance sheet, as you point out, to contract liabilities and so forth. But it would really now bust the scope of this call if we go jointly through all the accounts payables, contract liabilities and all of that. I'm actually preparing a little bit of a talk sheet for that, so we can all take that offline and go through this if you're interested in playing that game.

正如您所指出的，資產負債表中實際上包含大量有關合約負債等的資訊。但如果我們一起檢查所有應付帳款、合約負債和所有這些，那麼現在就真的超出了這次通話的範圍。我實際上正在為此準備一點討論表，所以如果你有興趣玩這個遊戲，我們都可以離線並瀏覽它。

But you will see when you do that, any given quarter can be kind of misleading. And what really matters is more like a rolling 12-month window. So this is why I tend to focus on the full year. And I can only reemphasize again, now having looked at the first view on the planning for the midterm, that this kind of stupid rule of thumb take the kind of non-IFRS profit, tax-affected and then take into account the positive impact from stock-based being equity settled to a certain degree is a very good proxy over that type of time frame with certain fluctuations year over year.

但當你這樣做時你會發現，任何一個季度的數據都可能具有誤導性。真正重要的是滾動的 12 個月窗口。這就是我傾向於關注全年的原因。現在，在看了關於中期計劃的第一個觀點之後，我只能再次強調，這種愚蠢的經驗法則採用非國際財務報告準則下的利潤、稅收影響，然後考慮到股票以股權結算的積極影響，在一定程度上是這種時間框架的一個很好的替代方法，並且每年都會有一定的波動。

And Michael, just to build on that, looking at the health of business we are closing these days, I mean, obviously, when do we use these migration credits? I mean, we are using that when especially large customers go into a massive transformation, greenfield, they're really completely redesigning the way how they predict demand, optimize supply chain on the shop floor or logistics.

邁克爾，在此基礎上，看看我們最近關閉的業務的健康狀況，我的意思是，顯然，我們什麼時候使用這些移民積分？我的意思是，當特別大的客戶進行大規模轉型、新建專案時，他們會徹底重新設計預測需求、優化車間或物流供應鏈的方式。

And that, of course, comes with some initial costs also, not only on system migration, but also really working on the business processes. Now obviously, what we are doing is then, okay, we say, okay, to make the business case even more compelling, we give these migration credits at the limited threshold. And then -- but what we're also then achieving is actually that our prices after discount go also constantly up.

當然，這也會帶來一些初始成本，不僅是系統遷移，還包括實際的業務流程。現在顯然，我們正在做的是，好吧，我們說，好吧，為了讓商業案例更具吸引力，我們在有限的門檻上給予這些移民積分。然後——但我們實際上也實現了折扣後的價格也不斷上漲。

I mean, our goal is, of course, which is super important for the margin and the profit long term is, of course, that our prices are actually increasing quarter over quarter, and that's what we are achieving. And despite some desperate moves, I have to say, from some of our competitors out there, we are achieving really a healthy increase of prices quarter over quarter.

我的意思是，我們的目標當然是，這對利潤率和長期利潤來說非常重要，當然，我們的價格實際上是逐季度上漲的，而這正是我們正在實現的目標。我必須說，儘管我們的一些競爭對手採取了一些孤注一擲的舉措，但我們的價格確實實現了逐季度的健康成長。

And when you then offset that and compare that, I would say we are using these migration credits in a very good and a very wise way to also protect our prices on subscription and growing cloud revenue.

然後當你抵消並比較它時，我想說我們正在以一種非常好且非常明智的方式使用這些遷移信用來保護我們的訂閱價格和不斷增長的雲端收入。

Frederic Boulan, Bank of America.

美國銀行的弗雷德里克布蘭 (Frederic Boulan)。

You both started to comment with a fairly prudent message on the macro environment. It would be great if you could discuss how you see the demand impacting CCB in the rest of the year. You highlighted the US public sector and some manufacturing segments impacted by tariffs, but also an overall fairly positive message.

你們倆都開始對宏觀環境發表相當謹慎的評論。如果您能討論一下您認為今年剩餘時間需求將如何影響 CCB，那就太好了。您強調了美國公共部門和一些製造業部門受到關稅的影響，但總體而言也傳達了相當積極的訊息。

So it would be great to understand a bit your assumptions and how we should think about CCB and also cloud with a nice pickup to 28% versus Q2, but any specific factors we should bear in mind for the second half?

因此，如果您能了解您的假設以及我們應該如何看待 CCB 和雲端運算，使其與第二季相比成長 28%，那就太好了，但是對於下半年，我們應該牢記哪些具體因素呢？

Yeah, thanks a lot. And look, I mean, first, we clearly said already at the beginning of the year that we always expected a slight deceleration of CCB. So what we said beginning of the year is now actually also becoming a reality and was planned in, as we honestly, after this massive Q4, we, of course, also came in at a very high base. And Q1 was, of course, definitely a record high. Now when you're looking at half year two, I mean, first, which gives me the confidence on the guidance is that pipeline coverage.

是的，非常感謝。首先，我們早在年初就明確表示，我們一直預期 CCB 的成長會略有減速。因此，我們在年初所說的現在實際上也正在成為現實，並且是我們計劃的，老實說，在這個巨大的第四季度之後，我們當然也達到了一個非常高的基礎。當然，第一季絕對創下了歷史新高。現在，當你回顧第二年半年時，我的意思是，首先，這讓我對指導充滿信心，那就是管道覆蓋範圍。

We actually have the same coverage like last year where we had a stellar half year two. And that, of course, assuming now we're going to hit the same conversion rates like last year, I mean, that is, of course, a very great to position to be in. I mean, that is good, strong pipeline on, of course, on a set of very ambitious bookings numbers for half year two.

事實上，我們的報道與去年一樣，去年上半年我們的報道非常出色。當然，假設我們現在能夠達到與去年相同的轉換率，那當然是一個非常好的位置。我的意思是，這是一個很好的、強大的管道，當然，基於第二半年非常雄心勃勃的預訂數字。

Now of course, what now comes in is the uncertainty. And the same lag in Q1, I would love to have a crystal ball. I mean, there are some megadeals in where, of course, this creates a swing in CCB on both sides. And obviously, what we need to see, especially in a few sectors like US public sector, manufacturing industries where customers are impacted by tariffs, I mean, that is, of course, now really an important factor in half year two.

當然，現在出現的是不確定性。而第一季也出現了同樣的滯後，我很想有一個水晶球。我的意思是，有一些大型交易，這當然會導致雙方 CCB 的波動。顯然，我們需要看到的是，特別是在美國公共部門、製造業等一些客戶受到關稅影響的行業，這當然是第二半年的重要因素。

So we have the pipeline, we have really good coverage. And look, the fascinating thing about SAP is also when you're sitting in these forecast calls, I mean, you see the sheer resiliency of this company, and I'm not sure if all of our peers have that.

所以我們有管道，我們有非常好的覆蓋範圍。而且，SAP 的迷人之處在於，當您參加這些預測電話會議時，您會看到這家公司的強大韌性，我不確定我們所有的同行是否都具備這種韌性。

I mean, no matter if one geo is performing a little bit soft, we have other geos who are actually performing really well. And then you also see a good swing in the products. I mean, we have a broad portfolio. Last quarter, it was definitely a very good quarter in cash flow optimization. We had a good quarter in spend, et cetera.

我的意思是，無論一個地理位置表現得有點弱，我們都有其他地理位置實際上表現得非常好。然後你也會看到產品的良好走勢。我的意思是，我們擁有廣泛的產品組合。上個季度在現金流優化方面絕對是一個非常好的季度。本季我們的支出表現良好，等等。

And now it's really hard to say for half year two. It's really about do we get all of the deals in with a similar conversion rate like last year? And of course, what we need for that is really predictability on trade and customers who really then sign up for those deals.

而現在第二年半年的情況真的很難說。這實際上是關於我們是否能以與去年類似的轉換率達成所有交易？當然，我們真正需要的是貿易的可預測性以及真正簽署這些交易的顧客。

Maybe one addition, don't forget the WalkMe impact for the remainder, too. This is the last quarter, Q2, where we still benefit from the year-on-year improvement, and this will kind of phase out over the next couple of quarters.

也許還有一點，不要忘記 WalkMe 對其餘部分的影響。這是最後一個季度，即第二季度，我們仍然受益於同比增長，但這種趨勢將在接下來的幾個季度內逐步消失。

Actually, Q3 already on CCB, it will be done because we closed the deal in the Q3 of the prior year. And so it's kind of apples-to-apples at that point in time, and that roughly -- very roughly 1.5 percentage points. So once that happens, now what happens, otherwise Christian has already commented.

實際上，第三季已經在 CCB 上完成了，因為我們在去年第三季就完成了交易。因此，在那個時間點，這有點像是同類比較，大約是 1.5 個百分點。所以一旦發生這種情況，現在會發生什麼，否則克里斯蒂安已經發表評論了。

But I also want to make the point, you should also not forget that we have some room in terms of protecting the accelerated revenue growth for '26, '27 because of a very strong mix effect we are currently benefiting. So even if we had beyond that kind of 1.5 a very slight continued deceleration, it would still not derail that objective.

但我也想指出一點，你也不應該忘記，由於我們目前受益於非常強勁的組合效應，我們在保護 26、27 年加速收入成長方面還有一定的空間。因此，即使我們的增速超過 1.5%，並且持續輕微減速，也不會破壞這一目標。

Charlie Brennan, Jefferies.

查理布倫南，傑富瑞集團。

Just a couple of quick ones if I can. Firstly, on the cloud revenues, we don't often see growth matching the CCB, were there any one-off catch-up payments in the cloud revenues that we should be aware of or was it a fairly clean quarter?

如果可以的話我只想簡單說幾個。首先，就雲端收入而言，我們通常不會看到與 CCB 相符的成長，雲端收入中是否存在我們應該注意的一次性補繳款項，還是這是一個相當乾淨的季度？

And then secondly, obviously, in the prepared remarks, you were calling out the Business Data Cloud. You gave a couple of examples of contracts where you've got BDC embedded into the contracts. Is there anything you can say in terms of the commercials that you've been able to extract that shed some light on how material it could be for you over time?

其次，顯然，在準備好的發言中，您提到了商業資料雲。您給出了幾個合約範例，其中將 BDC 嵌入到合約中。就您所摘錄的廣告而言，您能否說些什麼來說明它對您來說從長遠來看會有多重要？

Maybe I will stab at that kind of 28%, both on CCB and cloud revenue. You're right. I mean, if you look at the cloud CCB growth normally, there is then some attrition downwards because of transaction revenues. And we actually didn't mention that, but I can mention now that the transactional part of the business was again disappointing, frankly. And it's not surprising.

我可能會嘗試將 CCB 和雲端收入都控制在 28% 左右。你說得對。我的意思是，如果你正常地看待雲端 CCB 成長，你會發現因為交易收入而出現一些下滑。我們實際上並沒有提到這一點，但我現在可以說，坦白說，業務的交易部分再次令人失望。這並不奇怪。

I mean if you look at share prices of temporary workforce companies imploding over the last half year or so, and the airlines are also reporting on travel restrictions also sometimes because of policy, that's not a super good environment again, so that was dilutive.

我的意思是，如果你看看過去半年左右臨時勞動力公司股價的暴跌，而且航空公司有時也報告旅行限制，因為政策原因，這又不是一個非常好的環境，所以這具有稀釋性。

But the good news is that kind of we always said kind of 800 million-ish ticket is now further and further diluted in the mix, so the dilutive effect on cloud revenue growth is coming down. But indeed, normally, CCB growth is followed by cloud revenue growth, which is a touch lighter because of that transactional business.

但好消息是，我們總是說的 8 億左右的票房現在在組合中被進一步稀釋，因此對雲端收入成長的稀釋效應正在下降。但實際上，通常情況下，CCB 的成長會伴隨雲端收入的成長，而由於交易業務的影響，雲端收入的成長會稍微輕鬆一些。

BDC, I can take that question. Look, BDC. I mean, first, it's good to see that we can leverage BDC and sell it in many ways. I mean, first, we, indeed, BDC is part of many wise deals, especially customers, and there are many who still have their BW system on prem. They are now seeing with BDC a real business case because they're saying, hey, I'm not only now shifting the BW to the cloud.

BDC，我可以回答這個問題。看，BDC。我的意思是，首先，很高興看到我們可以利用 BDC 並以多種方式銷售它。我的意思是，首先，我們確實，BDC 是許多明智交易的一部分，特別是客戶，並且有很多人仍然在本地擁有他們的 BW 系統。他們現在將 BDC 視為一個真正的商業案例，因為他們說，嘿，我現在不僅要將 BW 轉移到雲端。

I'm actually now working with Databricks to harmonize data, to really build the semantic layer and then, of course, consume the intelligent apps on top. And that kind of uplift on a wise deal can be up to 20% to 30% of ACV. It really depends on the size of the BW system and how many data products the customer is consuming.

實際上，我現在正在與 Databricks 合作協調數據，真正建立語義層，然後當然在其上使用智慧應用程式。而明智交易的這種提升可以高達 ACV 的 20% 到 30%。這實際上取決於 BW 系統的規模以及客戶消費的數據產品數量。

Now BDC is not only a wise add-on. BDC is, of course, now embedded in all of our solutions. I mean, when you consume in the future, SuccessFactors, you can have actually our intelligent app for HI in it and you get prepackaged content, prepackaged data product semantically for the skills of your workforce, for hiring profile, to really manage your workforce end-to-end.

現在 BDC 不僅僅是一個明智的附加元件。當然，BDC 現在已經嵌入到我們所有的解決方案中。我的意思是，當您在未來使用 SuccessFactors 時，您實際上可以在其中擁有我們用於 HI 的智能應用程序，並且您可以獲得預先打包的內容、預先打包的數據產品，這些產品在語義上適合您的員工技能、招聘資料，從而真正實現端到端的員工管理。

And so that BDC will be also added to all of our LoB deals. And when you sum that up, obviously, BDC, I expect that this will be, in a few years, of course, also a business which can be a few billions big. And absolutely, when you just consider the installed base what we are having also on the BW side.

因此，BDC 也將被添加到我們所有的 LoB 交易中。總結一下，顯然，BDC，我預計幾年後這當然也會成為一項規模達數十億美元的業務。絕對的，當你只考慮安裝基礎時，我們在 BW 方面也擁有同樣的基礎。

Mohammed Moawalla, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的穆罕默德·穆瓦拉 (Mohammed Moawalla)。

Well done on the quarter. My question was just again around coming back to some of the macro impacts that you're seeing. You've obviously been able to withstand that pretty impressively. And when we look at your CCB growth versus corresponding metrics to some of your peers, it's still quite impressive. In your view, what has perhaps changed really in the last couple of months that has kind of driven this change?

本季表現良好。我的問題再次回到您所看到的一些宏觀影響。顯然你已經能夠相當出色地承受這一點。當我們將您的 CCB 成長與一些同行的相應指標進行比較時，它仍然令人印象深刻。您認為過去幾個月到底發生了什麼變化，從而推動了這種變化？

You alluded to some of the sort of the megadeals being a gating factor. I noticed that the percentage of kind of 5 million-plus order entry has been diminishing a little bit. Is it down to that? Or is it perhaps the complexity of some of the deals that customers are looking to kind of break up into smaller pieces? It would be helpful to get some color on that. And are there any particular verticals that you're seeing this weakness in?

您提到某些大型交易是限制因素。我注意到，500萬以上的訂單量百分比一直在減少。是那樣嗎？還是因為某些交易過於複雜，客戶希望將其分解成更小的部分？了解這一點將會很有幫助。您是否發現在哪些特定垂直領域中存在這種弱點？

Really good question. Look, I mean, first, very important, there are no deal with elongated deal cycles is lost. Yeah, I mean, obviously, we have seen in the last few weeks that suddenly, customers needed additional approval at the very top, so deal cycles just become longer because there is much more strict cost controls, especially in a few industries there which we mentioned.

真是個好問題。瞧，我的意思是，首先，非常重要的是，沒有達成協議會導致交易週期延長，造成損失。是的，我的意思是，顯然，我們在過去幾週看到，客戶突然需要最高層的額外批准，因此交易週期變得更長，因為成本控制更加嚴格，特別是在我們提到的幾個行業。

Now I mean, when you're now looking into half year two, I mean, for all of these big deals, what we are having and obviously, half year two, we have some of them, I mean, we have clear closing plans.

現在我的意思是，當你現在考慮第二年半年時，我的意思是，對於所有這些大交易，我們正在進行的，顯然，第二年半年，我們有一些，我的意思是，我們有明確的結束計劃。

We have, of course, also customers leaning in. They like what they see with the business case. They also oftentimes see SAP as a solution to overcome their own financial challenges. They are coming from macro uncertainty. But obviously, can we certainly say in Q3, we're going to hit all deals, which are now lined up, especially the megadeals?

當然，我們也有客戶傾訴。他們喜歡這個商業案例。他們也常將 SAP 視為克服自身財務挑戰的解決方案。它們源自於宏觀不確定性。但顯然，我們能否肯定地說，在第三季度，我們將完成所有已經達成的交易，尤其是大型交易？

I mean, obviously, that is really hard to predict. And that's why the CCB, I mean, we always said we're going to see a slight deceleration. But even assuming there will be a further percentage point of deceleration in Q3, even that would mean that we can further accelerate our total revenue growth.

我的意思是，顯然這真的很難預測。這就是為什麼 CCB，我的意思是，我們總是說我們會看到略微減速。但即使假設第三季的營收將進一步下降，這也意味著我們可以進一步加快總收入的成長。

And look, the good piece is the pipeline is there and we are not losing these deals. We just now need to be more diligent in managing the closing plans and be even closer to the customer that we are getting these deals in because, obviously, the CCB has a swing in half year two.

看看吧，好消息是管道就在那裡，我們不會失去這些交易。我們現在需要更勤勉地管理結束計劃，並且更加貼近我們達成這些交易的客戶，因為很明顯，CCB 在第二半年出現了波動。

And that's hard to predict how big the swing will be. But again, the good piece is we have the pipeline and we have the material and the customers responding very positively to the business cases, what we are showing to them.

而且很難預測波動幅度會有多大。但再次強調，好的一面是我們有管道、有材料，而且客戶對我們向他們展示的商業案例反應非常正面。

Ben Castillo, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的本‧卡斯蒂略 (Ben Castillo)。

Just coming back to the OpEx trajectory. Obviously, you've just grown EBIT some 40%-something in H1. I know you talked about the stock comp impact there. But nevertheless, that still implies the operating profit growth slows quite materially in H2. How much of that is just kind of conservatism on your part versus concrete plans to accelerate the investments in the back half?

剛剛回到 OpEx 軌跡。顯然，你們的息稅前利潤在上半年增加了 40% 左右。我知道您談到了股票補償的影響。但儘管如此，這仍意味著下半年營業利潤成長將大幅放緩。其中有多少只是您的保守主義，而不是下半年加速投資的具體計畫？

I guess tying that into your comments around headcount, which was only up very modestly, Dominik, you mentioned possible continued optimizations going forward. What's the level of hiring that you feel is appropriate to deliver on the growth acceleration there?

我想，這與你關於員工人數的評論有關，而員工人數只是小幅增加，多米尼克，你提到了未來可能繼續進行優化。您認為什麼樣的招募水準才適合實現那裡的成長加速？

Yeah, I mean, I tried to really mention the things that will make the kind of second half remain to do versus first half a little bit more challenging. You mentioned yourself from a stock-based compensation that we have already taken the lion's share of the improvement because that improvement was against, I'd say, very easy comps in the first half of the year where we had this big impact on the large cash settled, the last tranches weighing on our results in '24, and that's kind of going away in '25, and that will not reoccur in the second half of the year.

是的，我的意思是，我試著真正提到那些會讓下半場比上半場更具有挑戰性的事情。您提到，從股票薪酬來看，我們已經獲得了大部分的改善，因為我認為，這種改善是與上半年非常容易的比較相悖的，我們對上半年結算的大額現金產生了很大的影響，最後幾部分影響了我們 24 年的業績，而這種情況在 25 年會消失，下半年不會再出現。

Now very specifically on some investments we need to make, it's about hiring, yes, and I don't want to be precise now on how many headcount exactly, but we are talking about several thousands of headcount we would still embark. But I also mentioned that this kind of continuous improvement to avoid like massive restructuring one-offs like we had last year, recall was 10,000 people, would probably require some fine-tuning every now and then.

現在，就我們需要進行的一些投資而言，非常具體，就是關於招聘，是的，我現在不想精確地說出到底有多少員工，但我們談論的是仍將著手招聘數千名員工。但我也提到，這種持續改進是為了避免像去年那樣一次進行大規模重組，召回了 10,000 人，可能需要不時進行一些微調。

And we think that Q3 is probably a good point in time to do that. And that will also, in some geographies like Germany, of course, imply severance payments that we need to pay. So if you say 1% to 2% of the population, you can make the math on 100,000-plus that we talk about up to 2,000.

我們認為第三季可能是實施這項措施的最佳時機。當然，在德國等一些地區，這也意味著我們需要支付遣散費。因此，如果您說的是人口的 1% 到 2%，那麼根據我們討論的 100,000 多計算，最多可達 2,000。

And then you can make a certain assumption about what would happen in Germany, but that -- or in France or in some other jurisdictions where you have severance and that will also cost some money. And we deliberately decided to not kind of start disclosing it like we did with the big programs because we feel that this will be a recurring topic in the coming years.

然後，您可以對德國會發生什麼做出一定的假設，但在法國或其他一些有遣散費的司法管轄區，這也會花費一些錢。我們特意決定不像對大型專案那樣開始披露它，因為我們認為這將是未來幾年反覆出現的話題。

And so in a certain way, it's an upgrade, you could say, because we are really embarking that, digesting that in our numbers without affecting our operating profit by that. So that's what I wanted to allude to. And that's the reason why the second half looks a little bit more manageable.

因此從某種程度上來說，你可以說這是一種升級，因為我們確實開始這樣做，並在我們的數字中消化它，而不會影響我們的營業利潤。這就是我想要提到的。這就是為什麼下半場看起來更容易掌控一些的原因。

And then I also made the comment that, yeah, we have to be cautious, prudent about H2 in terms of remain to do all the top line, and we don't want to speculate on the kind of most part of our guidance on that for operating profit, but also be able to absorb in case we are lending a little bit more towards the lower half. In case that would materialize, that we also have protection in the operating profit and be solid on that one.

然後我還評論說，是的，我們必須謹慎，審慎對待下半年的所有營收，我們不想對大部分的營業利潤指導進行猜測，但也能夠吸收我們為下半年多一點的貸款。如果這種情況成為現實，我們的營業利潤也會受到保護，並且會保持穩定。

Same true for cash flow, by the way. I mean, the cash flow, we also look quite robust, as you've commented or some of you have commented yourself for the remainder, too. It's a manageable task, I'd say.

順便說一句，現金流也是如此。我的意思是，我們的現金流看起來也相當強勁，正如您所評論的，或者您中的一些人對其餘部分的評論一樣。我想說，這是一項可以完成的任務。

Johannes Schaller, Deutsche Bank.

約翰內斯·夏勒，德意志銀行。

One for Christian maybe. I mean, yesterday, we launched the Made For Germany initiatives. SAP is unsurprisingly part of that and I think you also attended the launch event. Can you maybe talk a little bit about that? Just firstly, maybe in terms of SAP's contribution to this initiative?

或許是給基督徒的一個。我的意思是，昨天我們啟動了「為德國製造」計畫。SAP 毫無疑問是其中的一部分，我想您也參加了發表會。能稍微談一下這個嗎？首先，也許就 SAP 對此計劃的貢獻而言？

Are there any also maybe investments that you're planning as a part of that, that's material enough for us to think about? And then secondly, just what you're hoping to get out of this as SAP. It's obviously with 600 billion-plus massive investments planned over the next few years. So talk a bit about potentially the financial impact for you but also what you hope to get out of it on financially.

您是否仍計劃進行一些值得我們考慮的重要投資？其次，您希望從 SAP 中獲得什麼。顯然，未來幾年計劃投入超過 6,000 億美元的巨額投資。因此，請談談它可能對您的財務產生的影響，以及您希望從中獲得什麼財務收益。

I'm happy to answer your question. I mean, look, first of all, in Germany, definitely some optimism is needed. And I guess this initiative yesterday is also a good starting point that also the private sector sees now some really early positive actions by our new government, which we definitely also want to support by also further highlighting the importance of Germany as one of our investment areas in the future. With regard to SAP, I mean, we have actually very important labs in Munich and Berlin. We are actually collaborating a lot with the technical university on supply chain AI.

我很高興回答你的問題。我的意思是，首先，在德國，肯定需要一些樂觀。我認為昨天的這項舉措也是一個很好的起點，私部門現在也看到了我們新政府採取的一些非常早期的積極行動，我們也當然希望透過進一步強調德國作為我們未來投資地區之一的重要性來支持這些行動。關於 SAP，我的意思是，我們實際上在慕尼黑和柏林有非常重要的實驗室。我們實際上正在與技術大學在供應鏈人工智慧方面進行大量合作。

We are doing a lot with obviously the HPI, which is world-class when it comes to AI on the data side, and we are doing a lot also there in some research in industrial-related AI modules. And so -- and that is, of course, a few investment areas we are going to see also going forward.

顯然，我們在 HPI 方面做了很多工作，它在數據方面的人工智慧方面是世界一流的，而且我們在一些與工業相關的人工智慧模組方面也做了很多研究。所以 — — 當然，這也是我們未來將要看到的一些投資領域。

For us as SAP, obviously, in this initiative, it's also very important to further push down the over-regulation we have in Europe because that is clearly a factor which reduces the competitiveness of not only the industry but also especially the many start-ups we are having.

對我們 SAP 來說，顯然，在這項措施中，進一步降低歐洲的過度監管也非常重要，因為這顯然是降低產業競爭力的因素，尤其是會降低我們眾多新創企業的競爭力。

I mean, we do a lot of development of AI in Palo Alto, in India, et cetera. But think about all the tech start-ups we are having in Europe and with the kind of over-regulation we are having, I mean, they are starting already with a big, big disadvantage compared to some other start-ups around the world.

我的意思是，我們在帕洛阿爾托、印度等地進行了大量人工智慧開發。但想想我們在歐洲擁有的所有科技新創公司，以及我們所面臨的過度監管，我的意思是，與世界其他一些新創公司相比，它們在起步階段就已經處於很大的劣勢。

And then last but not least, obviously, what we are pushing is with sovereignty. I mean I mentioned we have a lot of defense customers in Europe. And obviously, with this initiative and a big focus on digital, I mean, obviously, we see another strong momentum coming to us when it comes to transforming defense, where there is anyway a lot of spend these days.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，顯然我們正在推動的是主權。我的意思是我提到我們在歐洲有很多國防客戶。顯然，透過這項舉措以及對數位化的高度關注，我們顯然看到了國防轉型方面另一個強勁的勢頭，而國防轉型目前在國防領域投入了大量資金。

But of course, all of these defense customers are also now reaching out and say, hey, we cannot only spend in assets, in more production capabilities. We also definitely need to drive digitization. And that is, of course, the sovereignty aspect is, of course, also a huge aspect what SAP can contribute to the competitiveness of Europe, especially in areas like public sector and of course, also defense.

但當然，所有這些國防客戶現在也都在伸出援手，說，嘿，我們不能只在資產上投資，還要在更多的生產能力上投資。我們也絕對需要推動數位化。當然，主權方面也是 SAP 能夠為歐洲競爭力做出貢獻的重要方面，特別是在公共部門和國防等領域。

Michael Turrin, Wells Fargo Securities.

圖林 (Michael Turrin)，富國證券。

Christian, you mentioned Sapphire as the main highlight in Q2. Can you speak more around any business impacts you're seeing on the back of that event? Any commentary around pipeline, new product impacts, or adoption trends and how that sets you up for the rest of the year?

克里斯蒂安，您提到 Sapphire 是第二季度的主要亮點。您能否進一步談談該事件對業務的影響？對於通路、新產品影響或採用趨勢有何評論？這對您今年剩餘時間的計劃有何影響？

And just a small follow-on on the US public sector commentary. Are you confident any elongation impacts you're seeing there currently are appropriately factored into how you're looking at the rest of the year from a guidance perspective?

這只是對美國公共部門評論的一個小後續。您是否確信，從指導角度來看，目前看到的任何伸長影響都已適當地計入您對今年剩餘時間的展望中？

Yeah, I mean, Sapphire, I mean, it's always the event of the year where we actually generate the pipeline to have enough coverage to close out the year according to our guidance. And this was definitely the case this year. I mean, it was a few billion of pipeline which we added on top after Sapphire, which -- but again, yes, which is every year needed. But this year, I would say it was definitely a very, very positive outcome.

是的，我的意思是，Sapphire 始終是一年一度的盛事，我們實際上會產生管道，以便根據我們的指導在年底前獲得足夠的覆蓋。今年的情況確實如此。我的意思是，在 Sapphire 之後我們又增加了幾十億美元的管道，這是每年都需要的。但今年，我想說這絕對是一個非常非常正面的結果。

And when you just look at the pipeline we generated out of Orlando and of course one week late out of Madrid. Now on the public sector, I mean, this is, of course, when you think about the US public sector, I mean, obviously, things have become a bit more difficult with DOGE, with certain agencies.

只要看一下我們在奧蘭多和馬德里生成的管道就知道了，馬德里的管道比我們晚了一周。現在談到公共部門，我的意思是，當然，當你想到美國公共部門時，我的意思是，顯然，對於 DOGE 和某些機構來說，事情變得有點困難。

And of course, there are decision cycles and who is now deciding to move forward on a certain project. I mean, of course there, we are also, of course, working extremely close together with DOGE, with a few agencies.

當然，還有決策週期以及誰現在決定要推進某個專案。我的意思是，當然，我們也與 DOGE 和一些機構密切合作。

And we just hope that in half year two, that pays off. But still I have to say, of course, this is one of the areas where we definitely have to see that we can hopefully accelerate sales cycles in the half year two, and we are on it. And that is the situation in the US public sector.

我們只是希望在第二年半年就能獲得回報。但我還是要說，當然，這是我們必須看到的領域之一，我們希望能夠在第二半年加快銷售週期，而且我們正在努力。這就是美國公共部門的現況。

Awesome. Well, thank you, Christian, Dominik, and this concludes our call for today. Thank you, everyone, for joining.

驚人的。好吧，謝謝你，克里斯蒂安、多明尼克，我們今天的通話到此結束。謝謝大家的參與。

Thanks a lot.

多謝。

Have a great day. Bye-bye.

祝你有美好的一天。再見。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day.

女士們、先生們，會議現已結束，您可以掛斷電話了。感謝您的加入，祝您有個愉快的一天。