諾基亞 (NOK) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

內容摘要

諾基亞是一家芬蘭跨國電信、信息技術和消費電子公司。他們計劃在 2 月底繼續他們的增長和移動大會活動。他們還計劃在第二季度(最有可能在 5 月)恢復與業務部門的進度更新系列。該公司未提供毛利率指引,但預計移動網絡將成為 2021 年增長最快的業務。該公司現階段也未評論其 2024 年和 2025 年的目標。公司的光學業務過去一直虧損,但近年已扭虧為盈。文本詢問了推動這種轉變的因素,具體是新客戶、新技術還是地緣政治趨勢。諾基亞宣布了一項新的環境、社會和治理 (ESG) 戰略,該戰略不同於之前對三種“轉型技術”的關注:人工智能 (AI)、軟件和消費品。新戰略有五個重點領域:環境、工業數字化、安全和隱私、彌合數字鴻溝和負責任的企業。

環境重點包括成為能源效率和循環實踐領導者的目標,到 2025 年在所有設施中使用 100% 可再生電力,到 2050 年實現淨零排放。工業數字化重點是提供連接性和數字解決方案,以可持續地改變實體行業。安全和隱私的重點是確保產品和服務的共同安全基線,並加速諾基亞的安全產品。彌合數字鴻溝的重點是為世界上許多發展中國家提供連通性和數字技能建設解決方案。負責任的業務重點是在內部和諾基亞價值鏈中積極推動負責任的業務實踐,以價值為導向。

諾基亞新的 ESG 戰略與其之前專注於技術的做法相得益彰,這些技術雖然重要,但並未直接解決我們這個時代的一些最緊迫的問題。新戰略關注的環境、工業數字化、安全和隱私以及彌合數字鴻溝都是將對世界產生直接和積極影響的領域。看到像諾基亞這樣的公司採取以價值為導向的業務方式,並為自身及其供應鏈設定雄心勃勃的目標,真是令人鼓舞。諾基亞首席執行官 Pekka Lundmark 為公司採用新商業模式的速度感到自豪。他將這一成功歸因於公司對技術領先地位的關注。諾基亞增加了研發 (R&D) 支出,以保持其技術領先地位。 Lundmark 認為,這種對技術領先地位的關注將帶來更高的市場份額和利潤率。

2021 年第四季度,諾基亞按固定匯率計算實現了 11% 的增長,大多數地區都實現了正增長。由於對負載前端 CSP 客戶的大量投資,北美是個例外。諾基亞科技也有一個不錯的季度,與三星續簽了長期的專利許可協議。

Lundmark 和 Marco 將向股東介紹 2022 年的財務業績和進展更新。演講預計持續約 90 分鐘,之後有時間進行提問和回答。

完整原文

使用警語:中文譯文來源為 Google 翻譯,僅供參考,實際內容請以英文原文為主

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Nokia's Fourth Quarter 2022 Results Call and Group Progress Update. I'm David Mulholland, Head of Nokia Investor Relations. And today, with me in Espoo is Pekka Lundmark, our President and CEO; along with Marco Wiren, our CFO.

    女士們先生們,早上好,歡迎來到諾基亞 2022 年第四季度業績電話會議和集團進展更新。我是諾基亞投資者關係主管 David Mulholland。今天,和我一起在埃斯波的是我們的總裁兼首席執行官 Pekka Lundmark;以及我們的首席財務官 Marco Wiren。

  • Before we get started, a quick disclaimer. During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements regarding our future business and financial performance, and these statements are predictions that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may, therefore, differ materially from the results we currently expect.

    在我們開始之前,快速免責聲明。在此次電話會議中,我們將就我們未來的業務和財務業績做出前瞻性陳述,這些陳述是涉及風險和不確定性的預測。因此,實際結果可能與我們目前預期的結果存在重大差異。

  • Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors, and we've identified such risks in the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

    可能導致此類差異的因素既可以是外部操作因素,也可以是內部操作因素,我們已經在 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分確定了此類風險,該表格可在我們的投資者關係網站上獲取。

  • Within today's presentation, references to growth rates will mostly be on a constant currency basis, and margins will be related to our comparable reporting. And our Q4 report and results presentation are both published on our website, and they include both reported and comparable results and a reconciliation between the two.

    在今天的演講中,對增長率的提及將主要以固定貨幣為基礎,而利潤率將與我們的可比報告相關。我們的第四季度報告和結果演示都發佈在我們的網站上,它們包括報告的和可比較的結果以及兩者之間的調節。

  • The progress update portion of today should be considered as part of the regular series of progress update events we've been doing. The presentation for that will be available online after the presentation is finished.

    今天的進度更新部分應該被視為我們一直在進行的一系列常規進度更新活動的一部分。該演示文稿將在演示文稿結束後在線提供。

  • In terms of the agenda for today, Pekka and Marco will give a quick overview of our financial results for 2022 before moving into the progress update. We will be aiming for the call to last for around 90 minutes, but if the presentation runs slightly longer than planned, we will make sure to allow some time for Q&A.

    就今天的議程而言,Pekka 和 Marco 將在進入進度更新之前快速概述我們 2022 年的財務業績。我們的目標是讓通話持續約 90 分鐘,但如果演示時間比計劃的時間稍長,我們將確保留出一些時間進行問答。

  • With that, let me hand over to Pekka.

    有了這個,讓我交給佩卡。

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Thank you, David, and hello, everyone, and thank you very much for joining us today.

    謝謝你,大衛,大家好,非常感謝你今天加入我們。

  • So as you have seen in the results, fourth quarter was a solid end to a year of acceleration. We pretty much delivered what we promised at the beginning of the year. We had -- for the full year, we had EUR 24.9 billion sales, which was 6% growth year-over-year, and great fourth quarter, which ended the year EUR 7.4 billion, 11% growth year-over-year.

    因此,正如您在結果中看到的那樣,第四季度是一年加速的堅實結束。我們幾乎兌現了年初的承諾。我們全年的銷售額為 249 億歐元,同比增長 6%,第四季度銷售額為 74 億歐元,同比增長 11%。

  • And this is really important because we said in the beginning of the year that this would be a year of acceleration. We had declining revenue in 2020, 3% growth in '21, and now we had 6% growth in 2022.

    這真的很重要,因為我們在年初說過這將是加速的一年。 2020 年我們的收入下降,21 年增長 3%,現在 2022 年增長 6%。

  • In terms of profitability, first of all, full year comparable gross margin, which is not here on the screen, increased by 100 basis points to 41.4%. The full year operating margin was stable at 12.5%, which was a very strong result, considering the 150 basis points of one-offs that we benefited from in 2021, as we reported a year ago.

    在盈利能力方面,首先,屏幕上沒有顯示的全年可比毛利率增加了 100 個基點,達到 41.4%。全年營業利潤率穩定在 12.5%,這是一個非常強勁的結果,考慮到我們在 2021 年從中受益的 150 個基點,正如我們一年前報告的那樣。

  • Q4 was strong. Comparable operating margin was 15.5%, up from 14.2% year-on-year. This was partly due to Nokia Technologies, which I will turn to in a moment.

    第四季度表現強勁。可比營業利潤率為 15.5%,高於去年同期的 14.2%。這在一定程度上要歸功於諾基亞技術,我稍後會談到這一點。

  • So in summary, this chart here show the progress we made through the year. When we talk about the acceleration, here, you see for each quarter, our top line growth compared to the same quarter the year before, and you can certainly see acceleration here.

    因此,總而言之,這張圖表顯示了我們在這一年中取得的進展。當我們談論加速時,在這裡,你可以看到每個季度我們的收入與去年同期相比的增長,你當然可以在這裡看到加速。

  • Then down here, I hope this is readable, you have -- first of all, you have here 4 quarter rolling comparable gross margin for the whole group. And then this curve here is basically the same trend line without Nokia Technologies. And then here, you have the same graph for comparable operating margin.

    然後在這裡,我希望這是可讀的,你有 - 首先,你有整個集團的 4 個季度滾動可比毛利率。然後這裡的這條曲線基本上是沒有諾基亞技術的相同趨勢線。然後在這裡,你有相同的圖表來比較營業利潤率。

  • What I do want to note is that if you zoom into -- I mean, technologies is, of course, one case that we will talk about, then there is group common where we have Nokia Ventures. If you take the product businesses, which are Mobile Networks, Network Infrastructure and CNS on a full year basis, these 3 businesses expanded their comparable operating margin by 120 basis points, which is, of course, part of this very good development that you see here.

    我想指出的是,如果你放大——我的意思是,技術當然是我們將要討論的一個案例,那麼我們有諾基亞風險投資公司的共同點。如果你將移動網絡、網絡基礎設施和 CNS 等產品業務按全年計算,這 3 家公司的可比營業利潤率提高了 120 個基點,這當然是你看到的這一非常好的發展的一部分這裡。

  • In terms of cash, we had a net cash balance of EUR 4.8 billion, which was slightly up year-on-year. Free cash flow for the full year was EUR 840 million. Conversion was negatively impacted by net working capital growth, which is due to the accelerating growth. This will be -- this will continue to be an issue also this year. Marco will cover this part in more detail. Cash generation is, of course, of critical important -- importance for us also going forward.

    在現金方面,我們的現金淨餘額為 48 億歐元,同比略有增加。全年自由現金流為 8.4 億歐元。由於增長加速,淨營運資本增長對轉換產生了負面影響。這將是— 這也將在今年繼續成為一個問題。 Marco 將更詳細地介紹這部分內容。當然,現金產生至關重要——對我們未來的發展也很重要。

  • So then let's quickly look into HBG, and I start from mobile -- no, sorry, from Network Infrastructure. And what you see here is the 4 divisions of Network Infrastructure: IP Networks; Optical Networks; Fixed Networks; and Submarine Networks. And these colors here represent the growth in each quarter.

    那麼讓我們快速研究 HBG,我從移動開始——不,對不起,從網絡基礎設施開始。您在這裡看到的是網絡基礎設施的 4 個部分:IP 網絡;光網絡;固定網絡;和海底網絡。這裡的這些顏色代表了每個季度的增長。

  • So IP Networks at 11% and Optical Networks is 21% growth in Q4. Fixed Networks is 8% and Submarine Networks is 32%. Why is this important? Because so far, as you remember, the NI growth, which has been very good growth has been very much driven by Fixed Networks and Submarine Networks. But now, what was extremely pleasing to see, and this was partially behind the very good margin development in the business was that also IP Networks and Optical Networks who had that slightly lower growth in the earlier -- in the year accelerated their growth.

    因此,IP 網絡在第四季度增長了 11%,光網絡增長了 21%。固定網絡為 8%,海底網絡為 32%。為什麼這很重要?因為到目前為止,正如您所記得的那樣,NI 的增長非常好,這在很大程度上是由固定網絡和海底網絡推動的。但是現在,非常令人高興的是,這在業務利潤率發展非常好的部分背後是 IP 網絡和光網絡,它們在早些時候的增長略有下降 - 在今年加速了增長。

  • Overall, we had for NI significant margin expansion. Gross margin in Q4, this is cumulative gross margin for the last 4 quarters. But if you isolate Q4, we had 560 basis points expansion in NI gross margin and for the full year 160 basis point expansion.

    總體而言,我們為 NI 帶來了顯著的利潤率擴張。第四季度的毛利率,這是過去 4 個季度的累計毛利率。但如果你孤立第四季度,我們的 NI 毛利率增長了 560 個基點,全年增長了 160 個基點。

  • Also on the operating margin side, which you see here, this is also 4 quarters rolling, there is a significant expansion. First of all, Q4 isolated margin was almost 16%, 15.9% to be precise, and the full year was 12.2%, which is 200 basis points year-on-year. And remember, when the year started, we gave a margin target range of 9.5% to 12.5% Network Infrastructure. So we almost hit the upper end of that range at 12.2%. So great year for Network Infrastructure.

    同樣在營業利潤率方面,你在這裡看到,這也是 4 個季度的滾動,有一個顯著的擴張。首先,Q4隔離保證金幾乎是16%,準確的說是15.9%,全年是12.2%,同比增長了200個基點。請記住,年初時,我們給出的網絡基礎設施利潤率目標範圍為 9.5% 至 12.5%。所以我們幾乎達到了該範圍的上限 12.2%。對於網絡基礎設施來說,這是偉大的一年。

  • Then moving on to Nokia -- on, sorry, Mobile Networks, what you have here is quarterly growth compared to the same quarter last year. Q4 last year, we had actually declining top line. Now we had -- both in Q4 and also for the full year, we had 3% growth, which means that the declining top line that Mobile Networks had been suffering from for some time has now been turning into growth, albeit still, at this stage, a fairly slow growth.

    然後轉向諾基亞 - 對不起,移動網絡,你在這裡看到的是與去年同期相比的季度增長。去年第四季度,我們的收入實際上在下降。現在我們 - 無論是在第四季度還是全年,我們都有 3% 的增長,這意味著移動網絡一段時間以來一直遭受的收入下降現在已經轉變為增長,儘管仍然如此階段,增長相當緩慢。

  • Four quarter rolling gross margin, you can see here, an operating margin here, slight dip in Q4, but on full year basis, we had 90% expansion in Mobile Networks operating margin to 8.8%. And also here, if you remember what we had guided in the beginning of the year, we said 6.5% to 9.5%. So we landed at 8.8%. So Q4 came in pretty much as we expected, lower margin year-over-year because of regional mix shift. Basically, North America was front-end loaded in 2022. India growth accelerated in Q4, and this mix shift impacted margins pretty much as we expected.

    四個季度滾動毛利率,你可以在這裡看到營業利潤率,第四季度略有下降,但從全年來看,我們的移動網絡營業利潤率增長了 90%,達到 8.8%。同樣在這裡,如果你還記得我們在年初的指導意見,我們說的是 6.5% 到 9.5%。所以我們降落在 8.8%。因此,第四季度的表現與我們預期的差不多,由於區域組合轉變,利潤率同比下降。基本上,北美在 2022 年是前端負載。印度第四季度增長加速,這種組合轉變對利潤率的影響與我們預期的差不多。

  • And now when we look into 2023 in Mobile Networks, we expect greater seasonality in our operating margin in '23, with a slightly softer start to the year. But for full year 2023 Mobile Networks, we target operating margin to be largely stable year-over-year. The range we are now giving is 7% to 10%.

    現在,當我們展望移動網絡的 2023 年時,我們預計 23 年的營業利潤率將出現更大的季節性,而今年的開局會略微疲軟。但對於 2023 年全年移動網絡,我們的目標是營業利潤率同比基本穩定。我們現在給出的範圍是 7% 到 10%。

  • CNS work is gradually paying off. We had a decent growth in Q4, 5%, 2% only over the full year. But what is very important in this business is that since we've been working on the product portfolio and the product mix, the positive gross margin trend has continued. It continued in Q4. The reason why it's not yet turning to more than 5% to 6% operating profit is simply that we invest.

    中樞神經系統的工作正在逐漸取得成效。我們在第四季度取得了不錯的增長,增長了 5%,全年僅增長了 2%。但在這項業務中非常重要的是,自從我們一直致力於產品組合和產品組合以來,毛利率的積極趨勢一直在持續。它在第四季度繼續。營業利潤率尚未超過 5% 至 6% 的原因很簡單,就是我們進行了投資。

  • We have added significant investments in areas like private wireless campus networks, both product side, R&D and go-to-market. And these are investments into the future. They are paying off in terms of fast -- faster top line growth, especially in campus wireless at the moment. And also when, as you can see, in good gross margin development.

    我們在私有無線園區網絡等領域增加了大量投資,包括產品方面、研發和上市。這些都是對未來的投資。他們在快速——更快的收入增長方面得到了回報,尤其是目前在校園無線領域。正如您所看到的,還有良好的毛利率發展。

  • So the work to refocus investments and rebalance the portfolio is paying off. Full year margin was 5.3%. And also here, you remember, we said in the beginning of the year that the year would be between 4% and 7%, and we landed at 5.3%.

    因此,重新調整投資重點和重新平衡投資組合的工作正在取得成效。全年利潤率為 5.3%。而且在這裡,你還記得,我們在年初說今年的增長率將在 4% 到 7% 之間,我們降落在 5.3%。

  • And then last, but definitely not least, Nokia Technologies, which had an interesting quarter in many ways, net sales was up 82% in Q4. The reason is that late in Q4, we received notice from a long-term licensee that wanted to exercise an option to extend their license indefinitely. This meant that all outstanding revenue for this license had to be recognized in the quarter, which amounted to EUR 305 million, which we are highlighting here separately.

    最後但同樣重要的是,諾基亞技術公司在很多方面都有一個有趣的季度,第四季度的淨銷售額增長了 82%。原因是在第四季度末,我們收到了一位長期被許可人的通知,他們希望行使無限期延長許可的選擇權。這意味著該許可的所有未償收入必須在本季度確認,總計 3.05 億歐元,我們在此單獨強調這一點。

  • Even excluding that, there was actually revenue growth between Q4 '21 and '22. This recognition did not have cash impact on the business, but it meant as -- again that operating profit was largely stable in 2022.

    即使不包括在內,21 年第四季度和 22 年第四季度之間實際上也有收入增長。這種認可對業務沒有現金影響,但它再次意味著——2022 年營業利潤基本穩定。

  • Still maybe one final comment on technologies before I hand over to Marco. We remain in 2 litigation/renewal discussions. Several court rulings have validated our position in these litigations in Nokia Technologies, giving us confidence in our approach to prioritize the value of our portfolio over achieving specific time lines.

    在我移交給 Marco 之前,也許還有關於技術的最後評論。我們仍在進行 2 次訴訟/續約討論。幾項法院裁決證實了我們在諾基亞技術公司的這些訴訟中的立場,使我們對我們將投資組合的價值優先於實現特定時間表的方法充滿信心。

  • And then finally, on a positive note, we renewed our patent license agreement with Samsung on a longer-term basis earlier this week announced. This underscores Nokia Technologies' strong patent portfolio and supports our ability to deliver stable operating profit in Nokia Technologies over the long term.

    最後,從積極的方面來看,我們在本週早些時候宣布與三星續簽長期專利許可協議。這凸顯了諾基亞技術強大的專利組合,並支持我們在諾基亞技術中長期實現穩定運營利潤的能力。

  • Now I will hand over to Marco.

    現在我將交給 Marco。

  • Marco Wiren - CFO

    Marco Wiren - CFO

  • Thank you, Pekka. Good morning from my side as well and I will briefly go through some financial performance bridges and cash flow and then also touch upon our targeted addressable market and outlook.

    謝謝你,佩卡。我也早上好,我將簡要介紹一些財務績效橋樑和現金流,然後再談談我們的目標市場和前景。

  • So starting with growth, just like Pekka mentioned, we had a very good growth in quarter 4, 11% in constant currencies. And if you look, you can see that most of the geographies actually had a very good positive growth. And North America, just like we expected because of the very front-end heavy load investments in our CSP customers, we expect that the quarter 4 will be a little bit muted and exactly what happened.

    因此,從增長開始,就像 Pekka 提到的那樣,我們在第 4 季度實現了非常好的增長,按固定匯率計算為 11%。如果你仔細觀察,你會發現大多數地區實際上都實現了非常好的正增長。和北美一樣,正如我們預期的那樣,因為我們的 CSP 客戶進行了非常前端的重負載投資,我們預計第 4 季度會有點低調,而這正是發生的事情。

  • Just a couple of words about a few regions. Starting with Europe, you can see a very good growth, but as we report the whole technologies here. So even excluding that, you can see that we had a 13% growth in Europe, and this is actually coming both from NI and MN had double-digit growth in Europe.

    關於幾個地區的幾句話。從歐洲開始,你可以看到非常好的增長,但正如我們在這里報告的所有技術一樣。所以即使不包括在內,你也可以看到我們在歐洲有 13% 的增長,這實際上來自 NI 和 MN 在歐洲有兩位數的增長。

  • When it comes to India, this is, of course, propelled by the heavy deployments of 5G. And here, we see a very heavy growth in Mobile Networks. But I must say that also Network Infrastructure had a very high double-digit growth rates in India. And in Asia Pacific, actually, all businesses had a good growth.

    說到印度,這當然是由 5G 的大量部署推動的。在這裡,我們看到移動網絡的快速增長。但我必須說,網絡基礎設施在印度也有非常高的兩位數增長率。實際上,在亞太地區,所有業務都有良好的增長。

  • Then going -- looking to our comparable operating profit bridge from quarter 4 last year and seeing what has happened. And of course, you can see that Nokia Technologies had a very big impact in quarter 4. But also I want to highlight the 560 basis points improvement that network infrastructure had in quarter 4 compared to same quarter in '21.

    然後繼續——看看我們去年第四季度的可比營業利潤橋,看看發生了什麼。當然,您可以看到諾基亞技術在第 4 季度產生了非常大的影響。但我也想強調網絡基礎設施在第 4 季度與 21 年同期相比提高了 560 個基點。

  • And Mobile Networks, of course, this regional shift, but also the fact that their OpEx increased slightly because of R&D mainly, you can see that it was slightly below a year before.

    而移動網絡,當然,這種區域轉移,還有他們的 OpEx 略有增加的事實,主要是因為研發,你可以看到它略低於一年前。

  • And then in Group Common, I just want to mention that the venture fund is reported here, and they actually had a minus EUR 90 million negative impact in operating profit in quarter 4. And last year, we had a plus EUR 60 million. And this EUR 90 million, I would say that a big part of that is actually currency fluctuations because of the funds are reported in USD.

    然後在 Group Common 中,我只想提一下風險基金在這里報告,他們實際上對第四季度的營業利潤產生了負 9000 萬歐元的負面影響。去年,我們有 6000 萬歐元。而這 9000 萬歐元,我想說其中很大一部分實際上是貨幣波動,因為資金是以美元報告的。

  • And if looking at the full year now, so Pekka mentioned the 150 basis points one-off that we had in '21. So the starting point for '22 was actually 11%. And here, you can see that both Mobile Networks and NI had a huge contribution in the development towards '22 operating profit and margins.

    如果現在看全年,那麼 Pekka 提到了我們在 21 年的一次性 150 個基點。所以 22 年的起點實際上是 11%。在這裡,您可以看到 Mobile Networks 和 NI 都對 22 年營業利潤和利潤率的發展做出了巨大貢獻。

  • And we had some headwinds in FX and the reason is that we hedge our operating profit. So while in 2022, we saw increase in USD, and that boost our top line but keeps the operating profit intact. So that's why there's a negative impact on our margin.

    我們在外匯方面遇到了一些不利因素,原因是我們對沖了我們的營業利潤。因此,在 2022 年,我們看到美元上漲,這提振了我們的收入,但保持營業利潤不變。這就是為什麼對我們的利潤率產生負面影響的原因。

  • And then turning into cash flow. And you can see here that we had some negatives in our cash flow development during the year. We will build up net working capital, and this has been the reason that, first of all, growth is tyding up more net working capital, but also inventories because the lead times in supply chains has been very long and we want to secure that we have the products that we need to deliver to our customers. So this is the reason I'm driving it is.

    然後轉化為現金流。你可以在這裡看到,我們在這一年的現金流發展中有一些負面影響。我們將建立淨營運資金,這就是原因,首先,增長佔用了更多的淨營運資金,還有庫存,因為供應鏈的交貨時間很長,我們希望確保我們擁有我們需要交付給客戶的產品。所以這就是我開車的原因。

  • In Nokia Technologies, just like Pekka mentioned, the EUR 305 million was non-cash. So that's why actually the difference between operating profit and cash flow was EUR 800 million in technologies.

    在 Nokia Technologies,就像 Pekka 提到的那樣,3.05 億歐元是非現金的。因此,這就是為什麼實際營業利潤和現金流量之間的差異在技術方面為 8 億歐元。

  • And the cash conversion ratio ended up at 27%, and this is in the low end of the guidance that we had between 25% to 55%.

    現金轉換率最終為 27%,這處於我們 25% 至 55% 之間的指引的低端。

  • In total, the full year cash flow was EUR 841 million. And just like Pekka mentioned as well, the net cash ended up at EUR 4.8 billion.

    全年現金流總額為 8.41 億歐元。就像 Pekka 提到的那樣,淨現金最終達到 48 億歐元。

  • And looking forward now in 2023, you can see the different parameters here and how they are impacting our cash flow, what do we expect that conversion ratio will be between 20% and 50%. And again, net working capital due to the big growth that we have and also the regions we were growing, is actually tyding up capital -- in net working capital.

    展望 2023 年,您可以在這裡看到不同的參數以及它們如何影響我們的現金流,我們預計轉換率將在 20% 到 50% 之間。再一次,由於我們的大幅增長以及我們正在增長的地區,淨營運資金實際上正在佔用資本——淨營運資金。

  • The another issue is that we see that taxes are actually higher -- cash taxes. And this is based on the legislative change in U.S. where you have to capitalize R&D costs. And this means that cash out in those early years are increasing.

    另一個問題是我們看到稅收實際上更高——現金稅。這是基於美國的立法變化,你必須將研發成本資本化。這意味著早年的現金支出正在增加。

  • But looking beyond '23, we believe that '24 cash flow will be significantly stronger than '23. And while we are working towards our longer-term targets between 55% to 85% conversion.

    但展望 23 年之後,我們認為 24 年的現金流將明顯強於 23 年。在我們努力實現 55% 到 85% 轉化率的長期目標的同時。

  • And then a couple of words about the market estimates from our side. And we believe that in Network Infrastructure markets, and this is now excluding Submarine, that our growth will be about 4%. When it comes to Mobile Networks, and this is now excluding China. So we believe that growth will be about 5%. And of course, this is also heavily impacted by the rapid growth in India. And then Cloud and Network Services, you can see a 4% growth expectations on that market.

    然後就我們這邊的市場估計說幾句話。我們相信在網絡基礎設施市場,現在不包括潛艇,我們的增長將約為 4%。談到移動網絡,現在不包括中國。因此,我們認為增長將在 5% 左右。當然,這也受到印度快速增長的嚴重影響。然後是雲和網絡服務,您可以看到該市場的增長預期為 4%。

  • And before turning back to Pekka, about the progress update, I just want to give you some color on our guidance. Net sales between EUR 24.9 billion to EUR 26.5 billion. And this means that we expect the growth to be between 2% to 8% in constant currencies. And of course, the range is a little bit wider than normally and there's some macroeconomic uncertainties as well, and this is the reason for the wider range here.

    在回到 Pekka 之前,關於進度更新,我只想給你一些關於我們指導的顏色。淨銷售額在 249 億歐元至 265 億歐元之間。這意味著我們預計按固定匯率計算,增長率將在 2% 到 8% 之間。當然,這個範圍比正常情況下要寬一點,而且還有一些宏觀經濟的不確定性,這就是這裡範圍更寬的原因。

  • When it comes to operating margin, we guide between 11.5% to 14%. And free cash flow, I already mentioned, between 20% to 50% conversion ratio. And here, as I mentioned, we believe that the accelerated growth that we have and the regions where we grow, are tidying up more net working capital. So this is the reason.

    就營業利潤率而言,我們將其指導在 11.5% 至 14% 之間。我已經提到,自由現金流的轉換率在 20% 到 50% 之間。在這裡,正如我提到的,我們相信我們的加速增長和我們發展的地區正在整理更多的淨營運資金。所以這就是原因。

  • So I hand back over to Pekka for progress update.

    所以我將進度更新交還給 Pekka。

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • All right. Thanks, Marco. As you saw, we went through the Q4 result pretty quickly this time because we want to leave time for the main part of this call, which is really to give you an update on where we are in our different businesses, what are the key strategic drivers that are going to be guiding and informing their growth and development over the coming years.

    好的。謝謝,馬可。如您所見,這次我們很快就通過了第四季度的結果,因為我們想為這次電話會議的主要部分留出時間,這實際上是為了讓您了解我們在不同業務中的最新情況,關鍵戰略是什麼將在未來幾年指導和告知他們的增長和發展的驅動因素。

  • I will briefly summarize the progress we have made since our 2021 CMD, talk about our purpose a little bit, how it combines with our technology and the ESG strategy. And then, of course, I will, after that, zoom into the technology strategies and business strategies of each of our business.

    我將簡要總結自 2021 CMD 以來我們取得的進展,稍微談談我們的目的,它如何與我們的技術和 ESG 戰略相結合。然後,當然,在那之後,我將放大我們每個業務的技術戰略和業務戰略。

  • And finally, I will then go through some of the aspirations, including financial aspirations we have across each of the businesses. And then after that, Marco will update you on the progress we have made with implementing our operational model, our capital allocation policy and give you some pointers and things to consider in modeling Nokia for the long term.

    最後,我將介紹一些願望,包括我們對每項業務的財務願望。之後,Marco 將向您介紹我們在實施運營模式、資本分配政策方面取得的進展,並為您提供一些建議和長期建模諾基亞時需要考慮的事項。

  • So let's first take a look at our longer-term financials history. As this slide shows, the key trends have all improved. So first of all, 3 years ago, back here, this is our annual sales growth between 2017 and '22. Here, we have several years of either negative or extremely low growth, then '21 3% growth and '22 6% growth. So that's really a great achievement. And it again just shows that our goal to accelerate sales growth has been successful.

    因此,讓我們首先看一下我們的長期財務歷史。正如這張幻燈片所示,主要趨勢都得到了改善。所以首先,3 年前,回到這裡,這是我們 2017 年至 22 年間的年度銷售增長。在這裡,我們有幾年的負增長或極低增長,然後是 '21 3% 的增長和 '22 6% 的增長。所以這真的是一個偉大的成就。這再次表明我們加速銷售增長的目標已經成功。

  • So when we move to the margin side, you can also see that we have been able to turn the gross margin development to the positive actually from the bottom here in 2019, we now have 500 basis points improvement in our gross margin. And then, of course, the same thing can be see here -- can be seen here on the operating -- both operating profit and operating margin.

    因此,當我們轉向利潤率方面時,您還可以看到我們已經能夠將毛利率發展從 2019 年的底部轉變為積極的,我們現在的毛利率提高了 500 個基點。然後,當然,同樣的事情可以在這裡看到 - 可以在這裡看到運營 - 營業利潤和營業利潤率。

  • Back here in 2019, 2020, we were a company of around EUR 2 billion comparable operating profit. Now last year, '22, we actually already exceeded EUR 3 billion, around EUR 3.1 billion. And the margin development also good.

    回到 2019 年和 2020 年,我們是一家可比營業利潤約為 20 億歐元的公司。去年,22 年,我們實際上已經超過 30 億歐元,大約 31 億歐元。利潤率發展也不錯。

  • If you exclude the 150 basis points of one-offs, which we reported in 2021, the margin would have been 11%, which would have meant that this development would have been extremely steady.

    如果你排除我們在 2021 年報告的一次性 150 個基點,利潤率將是 11%,這意味著這種發展將非常穩定。

  • So overall, when you look at the main kind of group numbers. I don't have EPS here, but it has also developed very positively. We can be pleased with the development. This gives us a good foundation also now in the future to grow faster than the market and achieve an operating margin of at least 14% as our long-term target is.

    總的來說,當您查看主要的組數時。我這裡沒有 EPS,但它的發展也非常積極。我們可以對發展感到滿意。這也為我們現在和未來奠定了良好的基礎,可以比市場更快地增長,並實現至少 14% 的營業利潤率,這是我們的長期目標。

  • As you remember, at our Capital Market Day in March 2021, we introduced a 3-phase plan to transform Nokia, reset, accelerate and scale. We did declare a year ago that the reset phase, and I will not go through all these details, you will have all this information on the deck that we published on our website.

    如您所知,在 2021 年 3 月的資本市場日,我們推出了一個三階段計劃來改造諾基亞、重置、加速和擴展。我們確實在一年前宣布了重置階段,我不會詳細介紹所有這些細節,您將在我們網站上發布的平台上獲得所有這些信息。

  • The point is that we declared that in -- after 2021, we had completed the reset phase. Now we are very much focusing on acceleration. And as you have seen, we have been pretty successful. We have grown our market share. We have accelerated our enterprise sales. We have improved our -- both not only top line but operating margin as well. We have continued to work on many fronts and technology in digitalizing our own operations and overall creating new growth opportunities.

    關鍵是我們宣佈在 2021 年之後,我們已經完成了重置階段。現在我們非常關注加速。正如您所見,我們非常成功。我們擴大了市場份額。我們加快了企業銷售。我們改善了我們的——不僅是收入,還有營業利潤率。我們繼續在許多方面和技術上努力,使我們自己的運營數字化,並從整體上創造新的增長機會。

  • So the accelerate phase has been going pretty well. It's not over yet. Acceleration will continue towards then the final goal, final phase, which we call scale. And there, the goal is that once we reach there, we want to be an undisputed technology leader in all those segments where we operate. We will have higher market share with the service providers. We want to become market leader in targeted, not all, but in targeted enterprise opportunities.

    所以加速階段進展順利。還沒結束。加速將繼續朝著最終目標,最後階段,我們稱之為規模。那裡的目標是,一旦我們到達那裡,我們希望成為我們運營的所有領域中無可爭議的技術領導者。我們將在服務提供商中獲得更高的市場份額。我們希望成為有針對性的市場領導者,不是所有的,而是有針對性的企業機會。

  • Obviously, we want to have higher operating margins. This is the foundational phase where we will get to that at least 14% operating margin. We will have meaningful partner-driven revenue streams, not only direct sales through operators or enterprises, meaningful, strong partner network, helping us to grow. And very importantly, we will have implemented new business models such as a service, annual revenue -- annual recurring revenue base for software that we deliver as a service.

    顯然,我們希望獲得更高的營業利潤率。這是基礎階段,我們將達到至少 14% 的營業利潤率。我們將擁有有意義的合作夥伴驅動的收入流,不僅是通過運營商或企業的直接銷售,有意義的、強大的合作夥伴網絡,幫助我們成長。非常重要的是,我們將實施新的商業模式,例如服務、年收入——我們作為服務提供的軟件的年度經常性收入基礎。

  • So some of these would be, in a way, definitions of what we will have wanted to achieve once we get to the scale phase. I mentioned already Enterprise, and this is really important because again, one of our key strategic objectives is to diversify our customer base so that we would not only be relying on service providers. And these efforts are paying off.

    因此,在某種程度上,其中一些將是我們進入規模階段後想要實現的目標的定義。我已經提到過企業,這非常重要,因為我們的關鍵戰略目標之一是使我們的客戶群多樣化,這樣我們就不會只依賴服務提供商。這些努力正在取得成效。

  • Here, you can see the development of our Enterprise sales between 2017 and 2022, excellent growth, we were around EUR 2 billion last year, 21% growth from '21 to 2022 and a really, really good 49% growth in Q4.

    在這裡,您可以看到我們企業銷售額在 2017 年至 2022 年之間的發展,增長非常出色,去年我們的銷售額約為 20 億歐元,從 21 年到 2022 年增長了 21%,第四季度增長了 49%。

  • So now after this growth, Enterprise represents about 8% of our sales. And our goal is very clear. We want this trend to continue. We want Enterprise to grow double-digit going forward, and we wanted to reach 10% of our sales as quickly as possible.

    所以現在在這種增長之後,Enterprise 約占我們銷售額的 8%。而且我們的目標非常明確。我們希望這種趨勢繼續下去。我們希望 Enterprise 未來實現兩位數的增長,我們希望盡快達到銷售額的 10%。

  • Those numbers are important, but perhaps strategically even more important is this slide here -- is this graph here where you can see the development of our active partner network. The green color here represents partners for campus networks. And then the blue graph represents the number of partners that we have for wide area Enterprise networks. For example, a wide area utility network, so wide area authority networks.

    這些數字很重要,但也許在戰略上更重要的是這張幻燈片——這張圖在這裡你可以看到我們活躍的合作夥伴網絡的發展。這裡的綠色代表校園網絡的合作夥伴。然後藍色圖表代表我們在廣域企業網絡中擁有的合作夥伴數量。例如,廣域公用事業網絡、廣域權威網絡。

  • So this is looking pretty good at the moment. If I park that Enterprise question, I move then to the next theme, and that is our purpose. We launched in 2021 our new purpose. At Nokia, we create technology that helps the world act together. We achieved our purpose by ensuring close alignment and collaboration between our ESG strategy, our technology strategy and vision -- technology vision, along with our core product development within the business groups. This way, we believe that we can make ESG a competitive advantage for Nokia. This is one of our key strategic objectives to make ESG a competitive advantage for Nokia.

    所以目前看起來還不錯。如果我擱置那個 Enterprise 問題,那麼我會轉到下一個主題,這就是我們的目的。我們在 2021 年啟動了我們的新目標。在諾基亞,我們創造的技術可以幫助世界共同行動。我們通過確保我們的 ESG 戰略、我們的技術戰略和願景——技術願景,以及我們在業務集團內的核心產品開發之間的緊密結合和協作來實現我們的目標。通過這種方式,我們相信我們可以使 ESG 成為諾基亞的競爭優勢。這是我們使 ESG 成為諾基亞競爭優勢的關鍵戰略目標之一。

  • Then I move to the next theme, which is our technology strategy. And this is not business group specific. This is across the board. This is -- these are the -- this is the foundation of Nokia Group Technology Strategy. And you can see a very high-level summary on this slide here.

    然後我進入下一個主題,即我們的技術戰略。這不是特定於業務組的。這是全面的。這是——這些是——這是諾基亞集團技術戰略的基礎。您可以在此處的這張幻燈片上看到非常高級的摘要。

  • First of all, if we look at the foundational technologies that you have here, I start from sustainability, which I already mentioned. I will talk about that shortly. It is an absolute cornerstone in the strategy.

    首先,如果我們看看你們這裡的基礎技術,我會從可持續性開始,我已經提到過。我很快就會談到這一點。它是戰略中的絕對基石。

  • Then there is semiconductors -- semiconductor technology, where we continue to invest in -- to develop SoC, System-on-Chip across our portfolio and cross leverage our Expertise, a fundamental part of the competitiveness of the system, performance of the system, energy efficiency of the system comes actually from silicon. And we want to maintain a significant own development position there. We do not only want to rely on Merck and Silicon. We want to have own IP in the silicon development as well, because it is driving a significant part of the competitiveness.

    然後是半導體——我們繼續投資的半導體技術——在我們的產品組合中開發 SoC、片上系統,並交叉利用我們的專業知識,這是系統競爭力、系統性能的基本組成部分,系統的能源效率實際上來自矽。我們希望在那裡保持重要的發展地位。我們不想只依賴默克和矽。我們也希望在矽開發中擁有自己的 IP,因為它是競爭力的重要組成部分。

  • Then security is really foundational to critical networks. Our target is to deliver highly secure systems with multiple levels of defense, which, in some cases, even go all the way to the chipset level. Our routing -- new routing platform is one example of this, where actually defenses against distributed denial of service attacks has been implemented all the way to the chipset level. So these down here are in a way the foundational technologies.

    那麼安全性確實是關鍵網絡的基礎。我們的目標是提供具有多層防禦的高度安全的系統,在某些情況下,甚至可以一直到芯片組級別。我們的路由——新的路由平台就是一個例子,實際上防禦分佈式拒絕服務攻擊已經一直實施到芯片組級別。所以這裡的這些在某種程度上是基礎技術。

  • So then if we move up here and look at transformational technologies for the future, first of all, no surprise, artificial intelligence and specifically then machine learning, it's really going everywhere. And it is going to transform in a fundamental way, many, many parts of the network and including our deliveries.

    因此,如果我們向上移動並著眼於未來的轉型技術,首先,毫無疑問,人工智能,特別是機器學習,它真的無處不在。它將以根本方式改變網絡的許多部分,包括我們的交付。

  • We are already applying it in many places. We have launched AI-based product and services like Nokia AVA, which is a service for energy efficiency in the network. It goes into the radio interface. It goes into various customer service platforms, network performance management. It's going to be persuasive, and it's going to be everywhere.

    我們已經在很多地方應用了它。我們推出了基於人工智能的產品和服務,例如諾基亞 AVA,這是一項網絡能源效率服務。它進入無線電接口。它進入各種客戶服務平台,網絡性能管理。它會很有說服力,而且會無處不在。

  • Software. Again, absolutely no surprise. Cloud is a wonderful technology. And what cloud really does is that it simplifies applications. It -- the whole application architecture and the way how applications can be deployed on top of the network platform gets a significant simplification through cloud. At the same time, it introduces more complexity into networks. So we are handling that complexity with sophisticated software.

    軟件。同樣,絕對不足為奇。雲是一項很棒的技術。雲真正做的是它簡化了應用程序。它——整個應用程序架構以及如何在網絡平台上部署應用程序的方式通過雲得到了顯著的簡化。同時,它給網絡帶來了更多的複雜性。因此,我們正在使用複雜的軟件來處理這種複雜性。

  • And then the ultimate target of all this is consumability. Traditionally, Nokia has made networks by experts for experts. But to target a larger market, including the enterprise and industry vertical developer ecosystem, we need to make networks by experts, but networks that can be easily consumed through APIs for everyone. So these are our transformational technologies in a very, very quick summary.

    然後所有這一切的最終目標是可消費性。傳統上,諾基亞由專家為專家打造網絡。但要瞄準更大的市場,包括企業和行業垂直開發者生態系統,我們需要由專家創建網絡,但網絡可以通過 API 為每個人輕鬆使用。因此,這些是我們非常非常快速總結的轉型技術。

  • Then I already promised that I would zoom a little bit deeper into ESG. We launched a new ESG strategy recently, which is aligned with the topics that are important to Nokia and our stakeholders. And this strategy is built around 5 focus areas.

    然後我已經承諾我會更深入地研究 ESG。我們最近推出了一項新的 ESG 戰略,該戰略與對諾基亞和我們的利益相關者很重要的主題保持一致。該策略圍繞 5 個重點領域構建。

  • Number one, environment, where we aim to be the leader in energy efficiency and circular practices. We target 100% renewable electricity in all our facilities by 2025 and look to have net zero emissions in our entire value chain by 2050, which is not a piece of cake, by the way, because most of our emissions are in Scope 3, i.e., when customers are using our products.

    第一,環境,我們的目標是成為能源效率和循環實踐的領導者。我們的目標是到 2025 年在我們的所有設施中使用 100% 的可再生電力,並希望到 2050 年在我們的整個價值鏈中實現淨零排放,順便說一下,這不是小菜一碟,因為我們的大部分排放都在範圍 3 中,即, 當客戶使用我們的產品時。

  • Number two, here is industrial digitalization, where we provide connectivity and digital solutions that sustainably transform physical industries.

    第二,這裡是工業數字化,我們提供連接和數字解決方案,以可持續地改變實體行業。

  • Number three, security and privacy, where we are working to ensure a common security baseline for products and services and accelerating our security offering. These are the cornerstones of our reputation and product proposition.

    第三,安全和隱私,我們正在努力確保產品和服務的共同安全基線,並加速我們的安全產品。這些是我們聲譽和產品主張的基石。

  • Then number four, bridging digital divide. As you can see here, we are a bridge for digital inclusion through our connectivity and digital skill building solutions for many, many developing countries in the world.

    然後是第四,彌合數字鴻溝。正如您在這裡看到的,我們通過為世界上許多許多發展中國家提供連接和數字技能建設解決方案,成為數字包容的橋樑。

  • And number five, very important, responsible business, take proactive and values-driven role in driving responsible business practices internally and in our value chain.

    第五,非常重要的負責任的企業,在內部和我們的價值鏈中積極推動負責任的商業實踐。

  • With this, we believe that ESG is a driver of value creation. We believe ESG can be a competitive advantage and drive new revenue streams for us. There truly is no green without digital.

    因此,我們相信 ESG 是價值創造的驅動力。我們相信 ESG 可以成為一種競爭優勢,並為我們帶來新的收入來源。沒有數字就沒有真正的綠色。

  • Then if I move to R&D. When we bring our technology and ESG strategies together in our product road maps and R&D, you may recall that when I gave some of my first presentations in the fall of 2020, after I had joined Nokia, I said that we would invest whatever it takes to regain leadership in 5G.

    然後,如果我轉向研發。當我們將我們的技術和 ESG 戰略結合到我們的產品路線圖和研發中時,您可能還記得,當我在加入諾基亞後於 2020 年秋季首次發表演講時,我說我們將不惜一切代價進行投資重奪5G領導地位。

  • Over the last 2 years, we have increased investment across various areas of the portfolio, not only in 5G, by the way, but also in some other parts of the road maps. And as a result, I believe that we have put ourselves on a much better footing.

    在過去的 2 年裡,我們增加了投資組合各個領域的投資,順便說一句,不僅在 5G 方面,而且在路線圖的其他一些部分。因此,我相信我們已經讓自己處於一個更好的基礎上。

  • Here, you can see our R&D investment. It was EUR 4.4 billion last year. The interesting thing is that even though we have significantly increased R&D from 2020 into 2022, the R&D intensity, when you look at the kind of long-term development here, it has not grown. It is around 18%. And of course, here, it's very important to get the top line growth like we had 6% last year, because that makes it possible for you to continue to invest R&D and perhaps even increase it without increasing the R&D intensity.

    在這裡,您可以看到我們的研發投入。去年是 44 億歐元。有趣的是,儘管我們從 2020 年到 2022 年顯著增加了研發強度,但當你看這裡的長期發展時,它並沒有增長。約為 18%。當然,在這裡,獲得像去年 6% 那樣的收入增長非常重要,因為這使您有可能繼續投資研發,甚至可能在不增加研發強度的情況下增加研發。

  • We have a lot of achievements which I will not go through this, material is in your deck. You can see that we have pulled out just a small number of innovation first on this slide product launches, technology advances that we have accomplished across each of the different businesses. But again, I will not go into more details on this one now, please study the material on the deck that we have provided.

    我們有很多成就,我不會一一列舉,素材在你的套牌中。你可以看到,我們在這張幻燈片產品發布中首先推出了少量創新,我們在每個不同的業務中都取得了技術進步。但同樣,我現在不會詳細介紹這一點,請研究我們提供的甲板上的材料。

  • So now we have covered how we operate. So let's turn to our long-term targets. Today, we reiterated the targets we introduced last year. We target to grow faster than our addressable market, deliver a comparable operating margin of at least 14% and deliver free cash flow conversion of 55% to 85% of our comparable operating profit. Those were, however, only group level targets.

    所以現在我們已經介紹了我們的運作方式。因此,讓我們轉向我們的長期目標。今天,我們重申了去年制定的目標。我們的目標是比目標市場增長更快,實現至少 14% 的可比營業利潤率,並實現可比營業利潤的 55% 至 85% 的自由現金流轉換。然而,這些只是集團層面的目標。

  • So next, I want to give you some visibility on the bottom-up opportunities that we see across the business. And I start from Network Infrastructure. And I do want to show you this first before I go into the different segments of Network Infrastructure.

    所以接下來,我想給你一些關於我們在整個業務中看到的自下而上的機會的可見性。我從網絡基礎設施開始。在我進入網絡基礎設施的不同部分之前,我確實想先向您展示這一點。

  • First of all, here, you see top line development of NI, how strong it has been. We have become a EUR 9 billion business from 2020 where we were still below EUR 7 billion. And equally, if not even more importantly, there is a significant expansion in gross margin and consequently, then obviously, gross profit. And perhaps the most impressive one is this one here. Comparable operating profit in Network Infrastructure was EUR 457 million in 2020, EUR 457 million here. And here in 2022, it was EUR 1.1 billion.

    首先,在這裡,您可以看到 NI 的頂線發展,它有多強大。從 2020 年開始,我們已成為一家 90 億歐元的企業,而我們仍低於 70 億歐元。同樣,即使不是更重要的是,毛利率也有顯著增長,因此,很明顯,毛利潤也出現了增長。也許最令人印象深刻的是這裡的這個。 2020 年網絡基礎設施的可比營業利潤為 4.57 億歐元,此處為 4.57 億歐元。而在 2022 年,這一數字為 11 億歐元。

  • If you remember what we said, it's up there on the slide, what we said in the Capital Market Day in 2021, we said then that our target for 2023 would be 9% to 12% margin. Now we achieved already last year 12.2%. And now we have a new target for 2023, which is 11% to 14%. So excellent development here.

    如果你還記得我們說過的話,就在幻燈片上面,我們在 2021 年資本市場日所說的話,我們當時說我們 2023 年的目標是 9% 到 12% 的利潤率。現在我們去年已經達到了 12.2%。現在我們有了 2023 年的新目標,即 11% 到 14%。如此優秀的發展在這裡。

  • The Network Infrastructure business consists of 4 segments or business divisions, as we call them. First is IP Networks, which accounts for 34% of the business with high teens operating margin, high teens operating margin.

    網絡基礎設施業務由我們所說的 4 個部門或業務部門組成。首先是 IP Networks,它佔業務的 34%,營業利潤率很高,青少年營業利潤率很高。

  • Second is Fixed Networks, which is 32% of sales and which has been a really exciting year in recent years and now generates after a very good development, it generates mid-teens operating margins.

    其次是固定網絡,佔銷售額的 32%,近年來是非常令人興奮的一年,現在經過非常好的發展後,它產生了十幾歲的營業利潤率。

  • Third is Optical Networks, which is 21% of sales with a low single-digit operating margin.

    第三是光網絡,佔銷售額的 21%,營業利潤率較低,個位數。

  • And finally, Submarine Networks, which is 13% of sales in NI, which has also grown substantially in recent years and is now low single-digit operating margin. It used to be loss making by the way. Now we've been able to turn it to profitability. And I'll talk about the future targets in a moment. So this is the structure of Network Infrastructure.

    最後是 Submarine Networks,它佔 NI 銷售額的 13%,近年來也大幅增長,現在的營業利潤率低至個位數。順便說一下,它曾經是虧損的。現在我們已經能夠將其轉化為盈利能力。我稍後會談到未來的目標。這就是網絡基礎設施的結構。

  • In terms of the trends worth calling out. You see some of them on this slide. Trends that are influencing the business, there's a number of new applications and changes in work patterns that will require higher capacity and higher speed networks, meaning simply that operators need to continue to invest, and we need to continue to innovate. Things like changes in working patterns, the importance of home connectivity is driving the need for fiber deployment, growth in 5G infrastructure base station backhauling how industries are digitizing and how companies are increasingly reliant on public cloud. All this is driving the need for the basic connectivity that NI is providing.

    就值得一提的趨勢而言。您會在這張幻燈片上看到其中的一些。影響業務的趨勢,有許多新的應用和工作模式的變化,將需要更高容量和更高速度的網絡,這意味著運營商需要繼續投資,我們需要繼續創新。工作模式的變化、家庭連接的重要性正在推動對光纖部署的需求、5G 基礎設施基站回程的增長影響著行業數字化的方式以及公司如何越來越依賴公共雲。所有這些都推動了對 NI 提供的基本連接的需求。

  • So having given you a little flavor of the broader trends. I now want to touch on our right-to-win in each area of NI and opportunities we see. And I start from IP Network. Technology leadership is key to the competitiveness of IP, and we have always focused on quality.

    因此,讓您對更廣泛的趨勢有所了解。我現在想談談我們在 NI 的每個領域的獲勝權和我們看到的機會。我從 IP 網絡開始。技術領先是知識產權競爭力的關鍵,我們一直專注於質量。

  • We rely on 3 foundational elements to sustain our position. And the first one is silicon and systems. With both in-house developed industry-leading FP4 and FP5 routing silicon along with the off-the-shelf solutions, we have a broad portfolio to meet our customers' requirements.

    我們依靠 3 個基本要素來維持我們的地位。第一個是矽和系統。憑藉內部開發的行業領先的 FP4 和 FP5 路由芯片以及現成的解決方案,我們擁有廣泛的產品組合來滿足客戶的需求。

  • Second is through software excellence where our quality focus and proven predictability gives us -- our customers' confidence. And third, through automation, where we simplify network operations using insights from network analytics.

    其次是通過卓越的軟件,我們的質量重點和經過驗證的可預測性使我們——我們的客戶充滿信心。第三,通過自動化,我們利用網絡分析的洞察力簡化網絡運營。

  • The IP Networks business is a space we entered as a start-up around 20 years ago, but that focus on product quality and delivering what we promised, mean this business has grown to become a market leader, a market leader in service provider edge routing, which has been our main segment.

    IP 網絡業務是我們大約 20 年前作為初創企業進入的領域,但專注於產品質量和兌現我們的承諾意味著該業務已發展成為市場領導者,服務提供商邊緣路由的市場領導者,這一直是我們的主要部分。

  • When you look at this market share graph, you may notice the slight dip. This is market share development until Q3 last year. But when you keep in mind what we just published about Q4, we expect that this actually is going to be trending upwards than once we see the Q4 numbers. So promising development here, both in terms of market share and also profitability.

    當您查看此市場份額圖表時,您可能會注意到略有下降。這是去年第三季度之前的市場份額發展情況。但是當你記住我們剛剛發布的關於第四季度的內容時,我們預計這實際上會比我們看到第四季度的數字時呈上升趨勢。無論是在市場份額還是盈利能力方面,這裡的發展都非常有前途。

  • When we look to the future for our IP Networks business, the focus is really on growth. We see our addressable market growing 3% CAGR through to 2025. And -- with our recently launched FP5 IP routing products, which are now ramping, we believe we have scope to continue expanding our share in service provider edge routing and very importantly, gradually also expanding into core routing.

    當我們展望 IP 網絡業務的未來時,重點實際上是增長。我們預計,到 2025 年,我們的潛在市場將以 3% 的複合年增長率增長。而且——隨著我們最近推出的 FP5 IP 路由產品(現在正在加速增長),我們相信我們有空間繼續擴大我們在服務提供商邊緣路由中的份額,而且非常重要的是,逐漸也擴展到核心路由。

  • We also expect to maintain the good momentum we have in our target enterprise verticals, which we see growing double digit. And finally, we want to take a meaningful market share in the web scale and data center market, which we are just starting to penetrate with our wins at the likes of Microsoft this year or in 2022.

    我們還希望保持我們在目標企業垂直領域的良好勢頭,我們看到它以兩位數的速度增長。最後,我們希望在網絡規模和數據中心市場佔據有意義的市場份額,今年或 2022 年我們在微軟等公司的勝利才剛剛開始滲透這些市場。

  • We see meaningful opportunities for our IP Networks business to grow faster than the market and still maintain the high teens operating margin we have been generating.

    我們看到了我們的 IP 網絡業務增長速度超過市場的有意義的機會,並且仍然保持我們一直產生的高青少年營業利潤率。

  • Then over to the next part of NI, which is Fixed Networks, which is primarily being driven by ongoing fiber deployments. And when you look at fiber deployment, there's a couple of things to note.

    然後轉到 NI 的下一部分,即固定網絡,這主要由正在進行的光纖部署驅動。當您查看光纖部署時,有幾件事需要注意。

  • First of all, is the current penetration. Here you can see in the different regions, Middle East and Africa, North America, Latin America, Europe and Asia Pacific, the green color representing the percentage or the share of homes connected as a proportion of the number of total homes. And then the light blue color represents homes passed. There is only one conclusion to make, there is still a lot, a lot market to cover, which is still untouched. But this is not the only one that is driving this business.

    首先,是目前的滲透率。在這裡,您可以看到在中東和非洲、北美、拉丁美洲、歐洲和亞太地區的不同地區,綠色代表連接的家庭佔家庭總數的百分比或份額。然後淺藍色代表經過的房屋。只有一個結論要得出,還有很多很多市場需要覆蓋,而且還沒有觸及。但這並不是推動這項業務的唯一因素。

  • The other aspect is that in addition to the growing penetration, even within the existing penetration, there is a lot of need to drive for faster speeds. And technology development is really an element here. And this is really our sweet spot in this whole thing.

    另一個方面是,除了不斷增長的滲透率之外,即使在現有滲透率範圍內,也有很多需要推動更快的速度。技術發展確實是這裡的一個要素。這真的是我們在整個事情中的最佳點。

  • Today, most deployments are still GPON or XGS-PON, which is now the fastest-growing segment, which is 10 gigabits symmetrical, but we offer a very strong upgrade road map for customers all the way through our recently launched Lightspan MF-14 platform, which you can see there on the slide being the first platform that supports 10G, 25G and 50G and even 100G. We have demonstrated 100 gigabits per second already for some customers. And we believe that we have an 18-month lead over the competition here.

    今天,大多數部署仍然是 GPON 或 XGS-PON,這是現在增長最快的部分,它是 10 Gb 對稱的,但我們通過我們最近推出的 Lightspan MF-14 平台為客戶提供了非常強大的升級路線圖,您可以在幻燈片上看到它是第一個支持 10G、25G 和 50G 甚至 100G 的平台。我們已經為一些客戶展示了每秒 100 Gb 的速度。我們相信我們在這裡的競爭中領先 18 個月。

  • So in Fixed Networks, it's two things going forward. It's the penetration, which is still low. It will continue to grow. But within any penetration, there will be the continuous need to upgrade capacity. A significant part of those existing customers that are running broadband at home are still running on fairly low speeds, and they will get to be upgraded in the coming years.

    所以在固定網絡中,有兩件事要向前發展。這是滲透率,仍然很低。它將繼續增長。但在任何滲透中,都會有不斷升級能力的需求。在家中使用寬帶的現有客戶中,有很大一部分仍然以相當低的速度運行,他們將在未來幾年內進行升級。

  • This is a segment where we have probably the highest market share of all our segments in the whole of Nokia. 42% market share in optical line terminals, which is the central office side of the fiber connection, 42%. Just not -- asked not to forget, now I've been talking about fiber and passive Optical Networks.

    這是我們在整個諾基亞所有細分市場中可能擁有最高市場份額的細分市場。光線路終端市場份額42%,其中光纖連接的局端端,42%。只是不要——要求不要忘記,現在我一直在談論光纖和無源光網絡。

  • Our Fixed Network business also covers copper solutions, which still are on the market. There is demand in some parts of the world for copper as well and very importantly, fixed wireless access, which I will not discuss more at this call.

    我們的固定網絡業務還包括仍在市場上銷售的銅纜解決方案。世界某些地區也需要銅纜,而且非常重要的是固定無線接入,我不會在本次電話會議上詳細討論。

  • If we look to the future, again, our Fixed Networks business is really focused on growth as it already generates good profitability with a mid-teens operating margin.

    如果我們再次展望未來,我們的固定網絡業務真正專注於增長,因為它已經產生了良好的盈利能力,營業利潤率在十幾歲左右。

  • When we look into the future, we see addressable market growing 4%. And -- with this strong technology leadership, we believe that we have scope for further market share gains. So without repeating what I just said about the development trends, I will now move to the next segment of NI, once again, as you can see on this slide, our goal in Fixed Networks is to sustain mid-teens operating margin. And of course, we expect the growth to continue.

    當我們展望未來時,我們看到潛在市場增長了 4%。並且 - 憑藉這種強大的技術領先地位,我們相信我們有進一步擴大市場份額的空間。因此,在不重複我剛才所說的發展趨勢的情況下,我現在將轉到 NI 的下一個部分,正如您在這張幻燈片上看到的那樣,我們在固定網絡中的目標是維持十幾歲中期的營業利潤率。當然,我們預計增長將繼續。

  • And then to the next segment, which is, of course, Optical Networks. In this business, our aim is to help our customers scale but do so easily. So we have focused on developing our portfolio of products to ensure we have a range of solutions that really hit the performance and capacity levels needed in different applications.

    然後是下一個部分,當然是光網絡。在這項業務中,我們的目標是幫助我們的客戶輕鬆擴展規模。因此,我們專注於開發我們的產品組合,以確保我們擁有一系列真正達到不同應用程序所需的性能和容量水平的解決方案。

  • We have a broad family of solutions from large long-haul and subsea networks through to more compact metro or access solutions, even pluggable solutions as we see some level of IP optical conversions in some shorter distance connections. This is something we are very well placed to manage with our strength in both IP and Optical.

    我們擁有廣泛的解決方案系列,從大型長途和海底網絡到更緊湊的城域網或接入解決方案,甚至是可插拔解決方案,因為我們在一些較短距離的連接中看到了一定程度的 IP 光轉換。這是我們非常有能力利用我們在 IP 和光方面的優勢來管理的事情。

  • If we look at our market share in Optical, we currently hold around 15% market share, excluding China, but this is a highly fragmented market. We are actually the #3 player excluding China in the world and #2 in Europe.

    如果我們看一下我們在光學領域的市場份額,我們目前擁有約 15% 的市場份額,不包括中國,但這是一個高度分散的市場。我們實際上是世界上除中國之外的第三大玩家,在歐洲排名第二。

  • And then if you look to the future and the opportunity ahead, we currently forecast the addressable market growing at 2% CAGR. And with the investments we have made into our technology in recent years with PSC-5 and the momentum we are seeing with customers, we believe we are putting ourselves on a strong path to now improve our scale and also gain market share going forward.

    然後,如果您展望未來和未來的機會,我們目前預測潛在市場將以 2% 的複合年增長率增長。憑藉我們近年來對 PSC-5 技術的投資以及我們在客戶中看到的勢頭,我們相信我們正在走上一條強有力的道路,現在可以擴大我們的規模並獲得未來的市場份額。

  • As we gain share and improve our scale, that would really help to improve our operating margins going forward. This is -- in a way, I would say that the Optical is a story similar to the one we achieved in our Mobile Networks business. We have already been making the R&D investment in recent years, so we believe those benefits will come soon.

    隨著我們獲得份額並擴大規模,這將真正有助於提高我們未來的營業利潤率。這是 - 在某種程度上,我會說光是一個類似於我們在移動網絡業務中實現的故事。我們近年來一直在進行研發投資,因此我們相信這些好處很快就會到來。

  • Our operating margin in this business was low single digit in 2022, but we aspire to expand that to double digit over time.

    我們在該業務中的營業利潤率在 2022 年為低個位數,但我們希望隨著時間的推移將其擴大到兩位數。

  • And then the final segment of NI, I will touch on our Submarine Networks business, where we deploy subsea communication cables. These cables are critical to the functioning of the Internet and about 99% of the Internet traffic touches a subsea cable at some point in its journey.

    然後是 NI 的最後一部分,我將介紹我們的海底網絡業務,我們在那裡部署海底通信電纜。這些電纜對互聯網的運行至關重要,大約 99% 的互聯網流量在其傳輸過程中的某個時刻接觸海底電纜。

  • The dynamics of the market have changed in recent years with a significant increase in involvement from hyperscalers who are now building their own subsea networks. This has led to a meaningful increase in the backlog we are executing against in the business. And it's also an area where we have strong leadership. We are the market leader with significant experience and delivery and project implementation capacity.

    近年來,隨著正在建設自己的海底網絡的超大規模企業的參與顯著增加,市場動態發生了變化。這導致我們在業務中執行的積壓工作顯著增加。這也是我們擁有強大領導力的領域。我們是市場領導者,擁有豐富的經驗以及交付和項目實施能力。

  • Going forward, we see the market growing with a single-digit CAGR through 2025, and we aim to grow in line with the market. We also aim to improve the operating margins in the business from low single digit to high single digit as we have improved our execution in the business, but there are obviously some fairly long-term contracts, which always need to be kept in mind.

    展望未來,我們預計到 2025 年市場將以個位數的複合年增長率增長,我們的目標是與市場同步增長。我們還致力於將業務的營業利潤率從低個位數提高到高個位數,因為我們已經提高了業務執行力,但顯然有一些相當長期的合同,始終需要牢記這一點。

  • Then I will move -- now I have covered the Network Infrastructure in the 4 businesses. So now I move over to Mobile Networks where we can say that we are now back on track from a technology perspective.

    然後我將移動——現在我已經涵蓋了 4 個業務中的網絡基礎設施。所以現在我轉向移動網絡,我們可以說我們現在從技術角度回到正軌。

  • Again, the same structure on the slide, as you saw for Network Infrastructure, we have restarted growth, which is very Important, we had 3% growth both in Q4 and full year, encouraging development on the gross margin side, and the same can be also said about comparable operating margin, which was, as I said earlier, 8.8% in -- not in Q4, but in full year 2022, it was up 90 basis points.

    再次,幻燈片上的相同結構,正如您在網絡基礎設施中看到的那樣,我們已經重新開始增長,這非常重要,我們在第四季度和全年都有 3% 的增長,鼓勵毛利率方面的發展,同樣可以還要說一下可比營業利潤率,正如我之前所說,它是 8.8%——不是在第四季度,而是在 2022 年全年,它上升了 90 個基點。

  • The aspirations that we have for Mobile Networks should not come as a surprise, as we've been talking quite openly about them for some time. We look to grow faster than the market and to expand Mobile Networks operating margin into double digits from the current 8.8% level. We are well on our way, but there is plenty more work to be done.

    我們對移動網絡的期望不足為奇,因為我們已經相當公開地談論它們一段時間了。我們希望實現比市場更快的增長,並將移動網絡運營利潤率從目前的 8.8% 提高到兩位數。我們進展順利,但還有很多工作要做。

  • Also here, if we compare to what we said at the Capital Market Day in 2021, similar to Network Infrastructure. At CMD '21, we set a target -- '23 target to be at 5% to 8% comparable operating margin. Now the assumption we have for this year is 7% to 10%, so 200 basis points higher.

    同樣在這裡,如果我們比較我們在 2021 年資本市場日所說的,類似於 Network Infrastructure。在 CMD '21,我們設定了一個目標 - '23 目標是 5% 到 8% 的可比營業利潤率。現在我們對今年的假設是 7% 到 10%,因此高出 200 個基點。

  • Looking briefly at how we see the Mobile Networks addressable market over the coming years, we see the market growing at a 1% CAGR through 2025. Actually, quite strong growth in '23, but then a slight, slight decline in '24 and '25. We continue to believe that we will see an extended peak in 5G. This is our estimation on the 5G market size all the way to -- until 2030.

    簡要回顧一下我們如何看待未來幾年移動網絡的潛在市場,我們看到該市場到 2025 年將以 1% 的複合年增長率增長。實際上,23 世紀增長相當強勁,但 24 世紀和 24 世紀略有下降25.我們仍然相信我們將看到 5G 的高峰期延長。這是我們對 5G 市場規模的估計,一直到 2030 年。

  • We continue to believe that, as I said, an extended peak in 5G market because, number one, there is still plenty of coverage and gradually more and more capacity to be built out around the world. And then on top of that, if that's for operators, then we have the private wireless growth, which is starting to be meaningful and that is helping to keep the whole market elevated.

    正如我所說,我們仍然相信 5G 市場的高峰期會延長,因為第一,仍然有大量的覆蓋範圍,並逐漸在全球範圍內建設越來越多的容量。然後最重要的是,如果那是針對運營商的,那麼我們就有了私人無線增長,這開始變得有意義,這有助於保持整個市場的發展。

  • So putting all these together, and you can see that 6G is expected to start to grow in around '28, '29 when the 5G starts to decline. Summing up all this together, you can see what we have been talking about earlier that we expect more or less a plateau on the market for the coming years, not a significant dip in any way. And then when 6G starts around '28, then there is actually the potential that the market would start growing from the levels where it is today.

    因此,將所有這些放在一起,您可以看到 6G 有望在 28 年左右開始增長,29 年 5G 開始下降時。將所有這些總結在一起,您可以看到我們之前一直在談論的內容,即我們預計未來幾年市場或多或少會處於平穩狀態,而不是以任何方式顯著下降。然後當 6G 在 28 世紀左右開始時,實際上市場有可能從今天的水平開始增長。

  • So that's our market estimate. And just one additional point on this one. When we look at our 4G to 5G conversion rate, this is a KPI that we have been reported early -- we have reported earlier. I just now want to highlight that now with the recent wins and market share gains that we have in regions like India, right now, actually, the latest conversion rate, 4G, 5G conversion rate is 110%. So this is an evidence of our success in when we have said that our goal is to start taking back some of the market shares that we did lose in early stages of 5G. That is clearly happening now.

    這就是我們的市場估計。關於這一點,還有一點。當我們查看我們的 4G 到 5G 轉換率時,這是我們早先報告的 KPI——我們之前已經報告過。我現在想強調的是,隨著我們最近在印度等地區取得的勝利和市場份額的增加,實際上,最新的轉換率,4G、5G 轉換率為 110%。因此,當我們說我們的目標是開始奪回我們在 5G 早期階段失去的一些市場份額時,這就是我們成功的證據。這顯然正在發生。

  • So I would say that Mobile Networks has clearly turned the corner in the last year, and market share data is starting to confirm this as well. You can see here that as of Q3 2022, which is this one here, both the quarterly and the rolling 4 quarter trends are moving in the right direction for 4G, 5G share, excluding China.

    所以我要說的是,移動網絡在去年明顯轉危為安,市場份額數據也開始證實這一點。你可以在這裡看到,截至 2022 年第三季度,也就是這裡的這一季度,4G、5G 份額(不包括中國)的季度和滾動 4 季度趨勢都朝著正確的方向發展。

  • The trend line here is rolling 4 quarters, we were at 24% at the end of Q3, but as you can see, the isolated Q3 was actually much higher, somewhere around 28%, 27% or something like that. So it is trending to the right direction at the moment.

    這裡的趨勢線在 4 個季度滾動,我們在第三季度末為 24%,但正如您所看到的,孤立的第三季度實際上要高得多,大約在 28%、27% 左右。因此,它目前正朝著正確的方向發展。

  • The advances Mobile Networks has made from a technology perspective gives us confidence in our ability to expand margins over the long term to the double-digit range, which is our target. This will be done through increased scale. For example, through market share wins in India and continued growth in private wireless.

    Mobile Networks 從技術角度取得的進步使我們對將長期利潤率擴大到兩位數範圍的能力充滿信心,這是我們的目標。這將通過擴大規模來實現。例如,通過贏得印度市場份額和私人無線業務的持續增長。

  • Through product competitiveness, we will again have new products coming out in 2023. And as the cycle matures, there are opportunities for margins to improve as more capacity is added to the network, all while we continue to maintain an efficient cost base and improving R&D productivity.

    通過產品競爭力,我們將在 2023 年再次推出新產品。隨著周期的成熟,隨著網絡容量的增加,利潤率有機會提高,同時我們將繼續保持有效的成本基礎並改進研發生產率。

  • Moving then on to the next business, which is Cloud and Network Services, where we have been working to rebalance the portfolio to best position for the future. And you can see some proof of their efforts in the first 2 parts of this slide. We did have net sales growth in 2022. And very importantly, this gross margin trend that we've been talking about when we've been working on the portfolio and restructuring the portfolio, the gross margin trend has been promising.

    然後轉到下一個業務,即云和網絡服務,我們一直在努力重新平衡投資組合,使其處於未來的最佳位置。您可以在這張幻燈片的前兩部分中看到他們所做努力的一些證據。我們在 2022 年確實實現了淨銷售額增長。而且非常重要的是,我們在研究投資組合和重組投資組合時一直在談論的這種毛利率趨勢,毛利率趨勢一直很有希望。

  • The reason why the gross margin is not yet turning to higher than 5% to 6% or something like this, operating margin is really the investments that we are making. Investments in private wireless, investments in many of the targeted growth segments in Campus Networks and in other parts of the portfolio. So this is why CNS is still a bit below where -- compared to where it originally intended to be in '23.

    毛利率尚未高於 5% 至 6% 或類似水平的原因,營業利潤率實際上是我們正在進行的投資。對專用無線的投資,對校園網絡和投資組合其他部分的許多目標增長部分的投資。所以這就是為什麼 CNS 仍然低於它最初打算在 23 年的位置。

  • At the Capital Markets Day, we set the target for CNS to be between 8% and 11%. Now we forecast 5.5% to 8.5%. So while NI and MN are clearly ahead of our thinking back at the Capital Market Day, CNS is slightly behind that. But again, Part of that is because of our own decision to accelerate spending and investment in Edge Networks and Campus Wireless. You can see that we have clear aspirations going forward to grow faster than the market and to expand to double-digit margins in the future.

    在資本市場日,我們將 CNS 的目標設定在 8% 到 11% 之間。現在我們預測 5.5% 到 8.5%。因此,儘管 NI 和 MN 明顯領先於我們在資本市場日的思考,但 CNS 略微落後於此。但同樣,部分原因是我們自己決定加快對邊緣網絡和校園無線的支出和投資。你可以看到,我們有明確的願望,即要比市場增長更快,並在未來擴大到兩位數的利潤率。

  • CNS continues to focus on the 6 areas of growth that I have talked about in the past, building technology leadership in each area. Underpinning the growth areas is the SaaS, software-as-a-service business model, which improves the consumability and consistent delivery of use cases, such as security-as-a-service or very importantly, our recently launched core network-as-a-service offering. CNS will focus on key SaaS use cases to support the growth areas in 2023 and beyond.

    CNS 繼續專注於我過去談到的 6 個增長領域,在每個領域建立技術領先地位。支撐增長領域的是 SaaS、軟件即服務業務模型,它提高了用例的可消費性和一致性交付,例如安全即服務,或者非常重要的是,我們最近推出的核心網絡即a-服務產品。 CNS 將專注於關鍵的 SaaS 用例,以支持 2023 年及以後的增長領域。

  • We are creating a new value with the network monetization platform, which you can see up here. We previously called this network as code, and by expanding our Campus Private Wireless leadership into the broader Enterprise Campus Edge, which is a new business unit that we have started inside CNS opportunity, especially in mission-critical industries.

    我們正在通過網絡貨幣化平台創造新的價值,您可以在此處查看。我們之前將此網絡稱為代碼,並通過將我們的校園專用無線領導地位擴展到更廣泛的企業校園邊緣,這是我們在 CNS 機會中啟動的一個新業務部門,尤其是在關鍵任務行業。

  • CNS has also codified its autonomous operations strategy and will strengthen our position in operations, analytics and security, both for CSPs and Enterprise. And finally, the CNS strategy and portfolio allows it to engage the broader digital ecosystem with new services capabilities and tools. This includes expanded engagement with CSPs, hyperscalers and enterprises and new engagement with developers, especially in the area of network monetization.

    CNS 還制定了其自主運營戰略,並將加強我們在 CSP 和企業運營、分析和安全方面的地位。最後,CNS 戰略和產品組合使其能夠通過新的服務功能和工具參與更廣泛的數字生態系統。這包括擴大與 CSP、超大規模運營商和企業的合作,以及與開發人員的新合作,尤其是在網絡貨幣化領域。

  • As we look into a bit longer term at the potential for CNS, we see a few key areas to disrupt and create new value. The Campus Edge Networks has code monetization and the transition to Software-as-a-Service business model. SaaS, for example, which is measured by annual recurring revenue, or ARR, we believe could represent, as you can see here, more than half of CNS net sales by the end of the decade. We have already introduced 10 services through this model and are starting to build up our ARR, annual recurring revenue base, and we will continue to scale this up in the coming years.

    當我們從更長遠的角度審視 CNS 的潛力時,我們看到了一些可以顛覆和創造新價值的關鍵領域。校園邊緣網絡具有代碼貨幣化和向軟件即服務業務模型的過渡。例如,SaaS 是按年度經常性收入或 ARR 衡量的,我們相信,正如您在這裡看到的那樣,到本十年末,它可能代表 CNS 淨銷售額的一半以上。我們已經通過這種模式推出了 10 項服務,並開始建立我們的 ARR,年度經常性收入基礎,我們將在未來幾年繼續擴大規模。

  • And then the fourth business, Nokia Technologies which has a proven track record when it comes to patent creation and licensing. We were, first of all, delighted to announce the renewal of our Samsung license earlier this week as well as Huawei back in December. We are also focusing on expanding our licensing coverage and have had success recently in the consumer electronics and automotive spaces.

    然後是第四個業務,諾基亞技術公司在專利創建和許可方面有著良好的記錄。首先,我們很高興在本週早些時候宣布續簽我們的三星許可,並在 12 月宣布續簽華為。我們還專注於擴大我們的許可範圍,並且最近在消費電子和汽車領域取得了成功。

  • We will continue to invest in our patent portfolio and standards delivering tech innovation to existing and emerging customers. In terms of our aspiration, we target largely stable operating profit in the business, and it should be noted that now despite having no contribution from a long-term license we discussed in Q4 that will no longer contribute revenue going forward.

    我們將繼續投資於我們的專利組合和標準,為現有和新興客戶提供技術創新。就我們的願望而言,我們的目標是業務中基本穩定的營業利潤,並且應該注意的是,儘管我們在第四季度討論的長期許可沒有貢獻,但未來將不再貢獻收入。

  • So of course, there can be some volatility year-to-year depending on progress on deals. But as Jenni stated back in September in her update, we are in the midst of a smartphone renewal cycle. And we will focus on continuing to renew those and also signing new agreements in our growth areas of automotive, consumer electronics, IoT and multimedia.

    因此,當然,根據交易的進展情況,每年可能會有一些波動。但正如珍妮在 9 月份的更新中所說,我們正處於智能手機更新周期之中。我們將專注於繼續更新這些協議,並在我們的汽車、消費電子、物聯網和多媒體等增長領域簽署新協議。

  • It's also good to note that some of the recent deals we've been signing are of a longer-term nature, which should give confidence in the longevity of our Nokia Technologies business. On this chart here, just as a summary, you see some of the deals that we have made. And this line here, which starts from here in 2005 and ends here at where we are today, this represents the net sales growth of Nokia Technologies up to the level of around EUR 1.6 billion, where we were last year.

    同樣值得一提的是,我們最近簽署的一些交易具有長期性質,這應該會讓我們對諾基亞技術業務的長期發展充滿信心。在此圖表上,作為摘要,您可以看到我們已經達成的一些交易。這條線從 2005 年的這裡開始,到我們今天的位置結束,這代表諾基亞技術公司的淨銷售額增長到去年的 16 億歐元左右。

  • Finally from me, I don't even try to read this slide. You have this in your package. This is, in a way, a summary of the key messages per business, including the financial aspiration. I hope this gives you confidence in our ability to grow and particularly to grow faster than the market along with expanding our margins to at least 14%.

    最後,我什至沒有嘗試閱讀這張幻燈片。你的包裹裡有這個。在某種程度上,這是對每個企業的關鍵信息的總結,包括財務願望。我希望這能讓您對我們的增長能力充滿信心,尤其是增長速度超過市場,同時將我們的利潤率擴大到至少 14%。

  • So with that, I will now hand over to Marco to cover some financial topics.

    因此,我現在將交給 Marco 來討論一些金融主題。

  • Marco Wiren - CFO

    Marco Wiren - CFO

  • Thank you. Hi, again. I will give a short update on the operational model and then also capital allocation policy and then finally give you insight into long-term modeling assumptions that we have.

    謝謝你。你好,我們又見面了。我將簡要介紹一下運營模型,然後是資本配置政策,最後讓您深入了解我們擁有的長期建模假設。

  • So starting with some key enablers that I believe were extremely important when we started the transformation of the company and securing how we can perform financially going forward. And the main thing that I want to highlight there is the new operational model. And this was quite a big difference in Nokia actually, we had a quite complex matrix organization, and we wanted to change that and make it more simple, so it's easy to work with us from our customer side.

    因此,從一些我認為在我們開始公司轉型並確保我們如何在財務上向前發展時非常重要的關鍵推動因素開始。我想強調的主要是新的運營模式。實際上,這在諾基亞是一個很大的不同,我們有一個非常複雜的矩陣組織,我們想改變它並讓它變得更簡單,所以從我們的客戶方面很容易與我們合作。

  • And that's why we created these 4 individual fully accountable businesses, as you can see here as well, and each of them have very clear responsibility for their own success. And this means accountability for strategy, growth, profitability and portfolio. And portfolio, of course, they have to continuously assess, what is the best offerings, where do we have the leadership position, where we aim to be the leader and take actions based on that.

    這就是為什麼我們創建了這 4 個獨立的完全負責的業務,正如您在這裡看到的那樣,每個業務都對自己的成功負有非常明確的責任。這意味著對戰略、增長、盈利能力和投資組合負責。當然,還有投資組合,他們必須不斷評估,什麼是最好的產品,我們在哪裡擁有領導地位,我們的目標是成為領導者,並在此基礎上採取行動。

  • Then also, I must say that I'm extremely proud of my colleagues how fast Nokia adopted this new model. We did it basically in 6 months. And many companies, it takes actually a couple of years to do this.

    此外,我必須說,我為我的同事們感到非常自豪,諾基亞採用這種新模式的速度如此之快。我們基本上在 6 個月內完成了。許多公司實際上需要幾年時間才能做到這一點。

  • Another area that I want to highlight is as well that we were very clear on that we want to be a technology leader. And I remember when Pekka said this, it wasn't only towards our customers. It was all important internally that we do whatever it takes to secure technology leadership, and this was in Mobile Networks side, but this is valid for the whole company. And that's why we started to move our spending from SG&A to R&D to be able to fund this technology leadership aspiration, and at the same time, we secured also that we have very lean corporate center. So the responsibilities should be in the businesses.

    我想強調的另一個領域是我們非常清楚我們想成為技術領導者。我記得 Pekka 說這話的時候,不只是針對我們的客戶。在內部,我們盡一切努力確保技術領先地位非常重要,這是在移動網絡方面,但這對整個公司都有效。這就是為什麼我們開始將支出從 SG&A 轉移到研發,以便能夠為這種技術領先的願望提供資金,同時,我們還確保我們擁有非常精簡的企業中心。所以責任應該在企業。

  • Then also when it comes to value creation. I talked about this already in the Capital Markets Day that we had and the approach remains the same. So we are extremely focused on driving a strong fundamental business performance and this is done by empowering our businesses and securing the technology leadership. As you can hear, technology leadership is extremely vital for Nokia.

    然後在價值創造方面也是如此。我已經在我們舉行的資本市場日談到了這一點,而且方法保持不變。因此,我們非常專注於推動強大的基本業務績效,這是通過增強我們的業務能力和確保技術領先地位來實現的。正如您所聽到的,技術領先地位對諾基亞來說極為重要。

  • And also when it comes to our internal capital allocation principles, these are based on where can we create the best value for our shareholders. And we believe that with technology leadership, you can get a better market share, market position but also higher margins. And that's why it's so important that when we do internal resource and capital allocation decisions, these are always based on where we believe that we create value.

    並且當涉及到我們的內部資本分配原則時,這些原則是基於我們可以在哪些方面為股東創造最大價值。而且我們相信,憑藉技術領先地位,您可以獲得更好的市場份額、市場地位以及更高的利潤。這就是為什麼當我們進行內部資源和資本分配決策時,這些始終基於我們認為我們創造價值的地方如此重要。

  • And that's why it's so important that we do the continuous portfolio assessment, ensuring that we invest in the right areas continuously. So this is no one-off exercise, this is something we have to do continuously and always prepared to take the right actions to secure that we will get to the value creation.

    這就是為什麼我們進行持續的投資組合評估如此重要,以確保我們持續投資於正確的領域。所以這不是一次性的工作,這是我們必須持續不斷地做的事情,並始終準備採取正確的行動來確保我們能夠創造價值。

  • And then all of this, we are monitoring and following up with the rigorous performance management system with very clear actions as well. And I'm very pleased that we have started to deliver also improving returns. And another key point we have had always that we have to have a higher return on capital -- on invested capital than our weighted average cost of capital. And which we also you can see here on the chart that we have been delivering the past couple of years.

    然後所有這一切,我們都在監控和跟進嚴格的績效管理系統,並採取非常明確的行動。我很高興我們已經開始提供更高的回報。我們一直擁有的另一個關鍵點是,我們必須獲得比加權平均資本成本更高的資本回報率——投資資本回報率。我們也可以在圖表上看到過去幾年我們一直在交付的內容。

  • Another area which is important, especially for our customers to secure that when they make deals with us, it's not now, it is a longer term. They want to see us to be their -- as a partner in a very long term, and they want to secure that we can really invest in technology, to be the leader, to pushing the edges going forward as well. And that's why we have ambition to have a good net cash position. And you can see here as well, the green bars in the diagram that we have had very good net cash position the past years and continue to have that.

    另一個重要的領域,特別是對於我們的客戶來說,要確保他們與我們進行交易時,不是現在,而是長期。他們希望看到我們成為他們的 - 作為長期合作夥伴,他們希望確保我們能夠真正投資於技術,成為領導者,並推動優勢向前發展。這就是為什麼我們有雄心擁有良好的淨現金狀況。你也可以在這裡看到,圖表中的綠色條表示我們過去幾年的淨現金狀況非常好,並且會繼續保持這種狀況。

  • And this is very important that they understand that we can continue to invest in R&D to be the technology leader in the future. Then a couple of words about our capital allocation policy. And of course, the first priority that we have is that we will invest in R&D, again, to be the technology leader. And this could be done both inorganically and organically. So we're looking to always whatever is suitable for us.

    這一點非常重要,因為他們明白我們可以繼續投資研發,成為未來的技術領導者。然後是關於我們的資本配置政策的幾句話。當然,我們的首要任務是再次投資研發,成為技術領導者。這可以通過無機和有機方式完成。所以我們一直在尋找適合我們的東西。

  • And the second priority in capital allocation policy is securing and providing capital returns to our shareholders. And if you look at our dividend policy, it's the same as we introduced in the beginning of '21. So our ambition is deliver recurring and stable and over time growing dividends, of course, always considering what is the financial position of the company.

    資本配置政策的第二要務是確保並為我們的股東提供資本回報。如果你看一下我們的股息政策,它與我們在 21 年初推出的政策相同。因此,我們的目標是提供經常性、穩定且隨著時間的推移不斷增長的股息,當然,始終要考慮公司的財務狀況。

  • And I'm pleased also to see that Board of Directors proposed now an increase of our dividend to EUR 0.12 per share from the EUR 0.08 that we had a year before. And of course, this is reflecting the progress that we have made. But going forward, increases would likely to be more measured and considering the progress and also the dividend policy. And -- then we continue also with the second tranche of our EUR 600 million share buyback that we started in early 2021.

    我也很高興看到董事會現在提議將我們的股息從一年前的每股 0.08 歐元增加到每股 0.12 歐元。當然,這反映了我們取得的進展。但展望未來,考慮到進展和股息政策,增長可能會更加謹慎。而且——然後我們還繼續進行我們於 2021 年初開始的 6 億歐元股票回購的第二批。

  • And then a couple of words about our long-term assumptions. First of all, in Technologies, we have said that we expect largely stable operating profit development. And when it comes to Group Common and others, and here also, we have, in addition to venture of funds, we also have the RFS business studies in our company. So we expect to have about a minus EUR 300 million, minus EUR 350 million. Of course, this could vary based on, as you've seen, especially the venture funds can go up and down. So there might be some variation year-by-year.

    然後是關於我們的長期假設的幾句話。首先,在技術方面,我們已經說過,我們預計營業利潤的發展基本穩定。當談到 Group Common 和其他公司時,在這裡,除了基金風險投資外,我們公司還有 RFS 業務研究。所以我們預計會有大約負 3 億歐元,負 3.5 億歐元。當然,正如您所見,這可能會有所不同,尤其是風險基金可能會上下波動。所以每年可能會有一些變化。

  • Then when it comes to financial income and expenses, we expect them to be between 0 to minus 100. And here as well, it is important to understand that interest rate fluctuations and FX has impact here on that figure. Tax rate, we expect to be around 25%. And when it comes to cash taxes, we assume now that there would be around EUR 700 million outflow. And of course, this is influenced by the regional mix, but also the uncertainty in the international tax legislations that will come.

    然後,當涉及到財務收入和支出時,我們預計它們在 0 到負 100 之間。在這裡,重要的是要了解利率波動和外匯對這個數字的影響。稅率,我們預計在25%左右。在現金稅方面,我們現在假設將有大約 7 億歐元的資金流出。當然,這受到區域組合的影響,也受到即將到來的國際稅收立法的不確定性的影響。

  • And finally, when it comes to CapEx, we believe that EUR 600 million is about the approximation that we have here. And there might be some small volatility year-by-year. So now with that, I would like to go back to Pekka for a brief summary.

    最後,談到資本支出,我們認為 6 億歐元是我們這裡的近似值。而且每年可能會有一些小的波動。所以現在,我想回到 Pekka 做一個簡短的總結。

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Yes. Thank you, Marco. Now I will be very brief because I want to leave time for your questions. Only one message, this is a quick summary slide on the cornerstone. So 6 pillars of our strategy to deliver our targets. Number one, grow CSP business faster than the market. There's a lot of opportunities to take market share with the help of technology leadership that we now have. In many cases, the geopolitical development in the world is actually helping to us achieve that.

    是的。謝謝你,馬可。現在我將非常簡短,因為我想留出時間給你們提問。只有一條消息,這是基石上的快速摘要幻燈片。因此,我們實現目標的戰略的 6 個支柱。第一,CSP 業務的增長速度快於市場。在我們現在擁有的技術領先地位的幫助下,有很多機會可以佔據市場份額。在很多情況下,世界地緣政治的發展實際上正在幫助我們實現這一目標。

  • Number two, expand the share of Enterprise to double-digit. Number three, take leadership position in every area where we compete, technology-driven target. Number four, secure business longevity in Nokia Technologies. Number five, build new business models such as software-as-a-service, network monetization platforms; and number six, develop ESG into a competitive advantage. So with that, I think we are ready for Q&A.

    第二,將企業的份額擴大到兩位數。第三,在我們競爭的每個領域都處於領先地位,技術驅動的目標。第四,確保諾基亞技術的業務長壽。第五,建立新的商業模式,如軟件即服務、網絡貨幣化平台;第六,將 ESG 發展為競爭優勢。因此,我認為我們已準備好進行問答。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • Thank you, Pekka thank you, Marco, as well for the presentations. Before we move into the Q&A session, I just wanted to give you a quick overview of some of our plans through 2023. We do hope to see as many of you as possible at Mobile Congress at the end of February. We will have an event on the Sunday. We hope you can join us. And then we will resume our progress update series with our business groups in the second quarter most likely in May with Network Infrastructure. So stay tuned, and you'll get the invite too about that as soon as possible.

    謝謝 Pekka,也謝謝 Marco 的介紹。在我們進入問答環節之前,我只想簡要介紹一下我們到 2023 年的一些計劃。我們希望在 2 月底的移動大會上與盡可能多的人見面。我們將在周日舉行活動。我們希望你可以加入我們。然後我們將在第二季度與我們的業務部門一起恢復我們的進度更新系列,最有可能在 5 月份與網絡基礎設施合作。所以請繼續關注,您也會盡快收到相關邀請。

  • With that, let's start the Q&A. As a courtesy to others in the queue, if you could please limit yourself to one question, and with that, [Alex], could you please give the instructions.

    有了這個,讓我們開始問答。出於對隊列中其他人的禮貌,請將自己限制在一個問題上,[Alex],能否請您給出說明。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • (Operator Instructions). I will now hand the call back to Mr. David Mulholland.

    (操作員說明)。我現在將把電話轉回給大衛·穆赫蘭德先生。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • Thank you, [Alex]. We'll take our first question from Alex Duval from Goldman Sachs.

    謝謝你,[亞歷克斯]。我們將從高盛的 Alex Duval 那裡回答我們的第一個問題。

  • Alexander Duval - Equity Analyst

    Alexander Duval - Equity Analyst

  • Yes. Thank you very much for the very illuminating presentation and congrats on the results. Quick question on the sustainability of your Infrastructure business. Can you help us understand how sustainable the impressive growth is that you've been showing? You gave some great color in your presentation on investments and focus areas for improving products and you also talked about some penetration opportunities in areas like fiber. But historically, this has been a relatively cyclical part of the business. So what do you think are the most important factors giving you confidence that the recent strong performance is not just about leapfrogging competition temporarily, especially given the challenging macro backdrop?.

    是的。非常感謝您非常有啟發性的介紹,並對結果表示祝賀。關於基礎設施業務可持續性的快速問題。您能否幫助我們了解您所展示的令人印象深刻的增長的可持續性?您在關於改進產品的投資和重點領域的演講中大放異彩,您還談到了光纖等領域的一些滲透機會。但從歷史上看,這一直是業務中一個相對周期性的部分。那麼您認為最重要的因素是什麼讓您相信近期的強勁表現不僅僅是暫時的跨越式競爭,尤其是在充滿挑戰的宏觀背景下?

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Yes, thanks. Well, first of all, I do not believe that the market share gains that we have had are in any way, temporary. On the contrary, as I explained in the deep dive, I do believe that there is potential to take more market share going forward. So that's one.

    是啊謝謝。好吧,首先,我不認為我們所獲得的市場份額增長是暫時的。相反,正如我在深入探討中所解釋的那樣,我確實相信未來有可能佔據更多的市場份額。這就是一個。

  • I think then the question is that how will the overall market develop. You're absolutely right that fixed taxes, especially in the history has been to some extent, cyclical. It is prudent to expect that, that growth rates would normalize in that business. But again, when you look at the facts and the development that was started by the pandemic, which is clearly increasing and continuing to increase the need for connectivity, permanent shift in working habits where people will not commute every day to their work. There is a lot of kind of underlying demand. This is one comment on the fixed access.

    我想那麼問題是整個市場將如何發展。你是絕對正確的,固定稅,特別是在歷史上,在某種程度上是周期性的。謹慎的預期是,該業務的增長率將正常化。但是,當你再次審視由大流行病引發的事實和發展時,它顯然正在增加並繼續增加對連通性的需求,工作習慣的永久性轉變使人們不會每天通勤上班。有很多潛在的需求。這是對固定訪問的評論。

  • And then if I talk about the other 2 segments, Optical and IP. What we have seen in the past is that actually first come an access wave investment. And now we have seen both fixed access and mobile 5G access investment. Then when there is more penetration, more users who start to add data traffic to the network, then the next wave is then going to happen in the IP and optical layer, which is more in the core part of the network to be able to deal with all the traffic that these new access networks generate.

    然後,如果我談論其他 2 個部分,光學和 IP。我們過去看到的是,實際上先來的是接入浪潮投資。現在我們看到了固定接入和移動 5G 接入投資。然後當有更多的滲透,更多的用戶開始向網絡添加數據流量時,那麼下一波浪潮將發生在 IP 和光層,這更多是在網絡的核心部分能夠處理這些新接入網絡產生的所有流量。

  • So this is something that could very well be driving the IP and Optical markets going forward. So I mean, it's impossible to give you a scientifically correct 100% answer, but we have reasons to be optimistic about the market development despite the fact that, of course, we recognize the overall macroeconomic uncertainties in the world.

    因此,這很可能會推動 IP 和光學市場向前發展。所以我的意思是,不可能給你一個科學上 100% 正確的答案,但我們有理由對市場發展持樂觀態度,儘管我們當然認識到全球宏觀經濟的整體不確定性。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take our next question from Aleks Peterc from Societe General.

    我們將從法國興業銀行的 Aleks Peterc 那裡回答下一個問題。

  • Aleksander Peterc - Equity Analyst

    Aleksander Peterc - Equity Analyst

  • Congratulations to strong results across the board. I just like to understand in Mobile Networks, how the year will shape out. There's obviously some margin pressure from the geographical mix changes here. So presumably, you will see a better second half than the first half. If you could comment on that a little bit.

    祝賀全面取得優異成績。我只是想在移動網絡中了解這一年將如何發展。這裡的地理組合變化顯然給利潤帶來了一些壓力。所以大概,你會看到比上半年更好的下半年。如果你能對此發表一點評論。

  • And then just today briefly, if you could also tell us if in '24, '25, you think you can still marginally grow revenue in mobile networks despite what you see being a market contraction in those 2 years?

    然後就在今天,如果你也能告訴我們,如果在 24 年、25 年,你認為你仍然可以在移動網絡中略微增加收入,儘管你認為這兩年市場收縮?

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Well, first of all, the market contraction that we had on that slide if you take into account the overall 2022, '25 market expectation, which is 5%, it is actually quite small. So then it comes all the way back to the market share question. We do believe that Mobile Networks can grow this year, we believe that it will actually be our fastest-growing business group this year. But it's too early to give any guidance on top line for '24, '25 other than we have a general ambition to continue to grow.

    好吧,首先,如果考慮到 2022 年 25 年的整體市場預期,即 5%,我們在這張幻燈片上看到的市場收縮實際上很小。因此,它一直回到市場份額問題。我們確實相信移動網絡今年會增長,我們相信它實際上將成為我們今年增長最快的業務部門。但是,除了我們有繼續增長的總體雄心之外,現在就 24、25 年的收入給出任何指導還為時過早。

  • Then the margin pressure, it is likely that when we look into 2023, that we will, in Mobile Networks, go back to earlier type of seasonality where the first half of the year is weaker and then the second half of the year is stronger. So we are, of course, expecting the full year to be largely stable, weaker first half, stronger second half.

    然後是利潤壓力,當我們展望 2023 年時,我們可能會在移動網絡中回到早期的季節性類型,即上半年較弱,然後下半年較強。因此,我們當然預計全年基本穩定,上半年較弱,下半年較強。

  • Remember that we did say after Q3 last year, that we are still keeping the 6.5% and 9.5% guidance for the full year despite the fact that we were ahead of it after 3 quarters. So we saw this coming. It was not a surprise and we have built all this into our assumption for 2023 as well when we are giving this 7% to 10% assumption for the full year.

    請記住,我們在去年第三季度後確實說過,我們仍然保持全年 6.5% 和 9.5% 的指導,儘管事實上我們在 3 個季度後領先於它。所以我們看到了這一點。這並不奇怪,我們將所有這些都納入了 2023 年的假設中,同時我們對全年給出了 7% 到 10% 的假設。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take our next question from Frank Maao from DNB.

    我們將接受來自 DNB 的 Frank Maao 的下一個問題。

  • Frank Maaø - Analyst

    Frank Maaø - Analyst

  • On the thorough business update earlier, so a couple of my questions have been answered. Let me see here. Yes, I think a key question for me is really on the margin side. I mean, do you see any -- do you expect to be able to offset the inflation pressures that we're seeing, especially on the salary side short term now and going into the medium term? Or do you need to -- with just ordinary measures? Or do you need to potentially take new measures to sustain the kind of cost efficiency and productivity momentum that you had?

    關於早些時候的全面業務更新,我的幾個問題得到了回答。讓我看看這裡。是的,我認為對我來說一個關鍵問題確實是邊際問題。我的意思是,你有沒有看到 - 你是否希望能夠抵消我們所看到的通貨膨脹壓力,特別是在短期和進入中期的工資方面?或者你是否需要——只是採取普通措施?或者您是否需要潛在地採取新措施來維持您擁有的那種成本效率和生產力動力?

  • Marco Wiren - CFO

    Marco Wiren - CFO

  • Yes. Thank you. We -- first of all, we believe that to be able to mitigate inflation, and there's several different parts of that, cost productivity and cost -- and on products improvements there. We are working continuously on those. And in this new operational model that we have, so it is very important that, as we said, that responsibility lies in different businesses as different businesses and their end markets are developing quite differently in different times that each business have to look into their end market development and what actions and measures they are taking to secure that they can continuously create value and perform in a better way.

    是的。謝謝你。我們 - 首先,我們相信能夠減輕通貨膨脹,並且有幾個不同的部分,成本生產力和成本 - 以及那裡的產品改進。我們正在不斷努力。在我們擁有的這種新的運營模式中,正如我們所說,責任在於不同的企業,因為不同的企業及其終端市場在不同時期的發展截然不同,因此每個企業都必須審視自己的終端市場,這一點非常重要市場發展以及他們正在採取哪些行動和措施來確保他們能夠持續創造價值並以更好的方式表現。

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Precisely, Marco, and then maybe to add one additional point is that, of course, when we talk about things like inflation -- inflation, we have taken that into account in our guidance, when we estimated that this year's margin would be between 11.5% and 14%. Of course, it includes all our inflation assumptions as we see them.

    準確地說,Marco,然後也許再補充一點,當然,當我們談論通貨膨脹之類的事情時——通貨膨脹,我們已經在我們的指導中考慮到了這一點,當時我們估計今年的利潤率將在 11.5 之間% 和 14%。當然,它包括我們所看到的所有通貨膨脹假設。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take the next question from Simon Leopold from Raymond James.

    我們將從 Raymond James 的 Simon Leopold 那裡接聽下一個問題。

  • Simon Matthew Leopold - Research Analyst

    Simon Matthew Leopold - Research Analyst

  • Just first, I wanted to get a quick clarification on your outlook for technology, given the one-off elements in the fourth quarter. I think when you talk about stable, should we be assuming that full year technology revenue in '23 is similar to full year revenue in '22?

    首先,考慮到第四季度的一次性因素,我想快速澄清一下您對技術的展望。我想當你談論穩定時,我們是否應該假設 23 年的全年技術收入與 22 年的全年收入相似?

  • And let me just pivot to the question because that's easing it up. There have been some indications that the U.S. operators have been absorbing some inventory of network equipment, and I think that was pretty evident in the fourth quarter. I want to get a sense of what's your view of this situation, particularly the duration of any kind of potential pause in their purchases as they burn down inventory and what products might be affected by that in your business?

    讓我轉向這個問題,因為這樣可以緩解問題。有跡象表明,美國運營商一直在吸收一些網絡設備庫存,我認為這在第四季度非常明顯。我想了解一下您對這種情況的看法,特別是他們在消耗庫存時可能暫停採購的持續時間,以及您的業務中哪些產品可能會受到影響?

  • Marco Wiren - CFO

    Marco Wiren - CFO

  • Yes, I can start with the technology part. And in our guidance, as we said, that's largely stable, of course, there might be small variations, as I said, also in the longer term as we guide larger stabling technologies. But this is our guidance what we see today. And in our guidance as well for the full year for the whole company, we have assumed that we will also settle those 2 outstanding litigations that we have right now.

    是的,我可以從技術部分開始。正如我們所說,在我們的指導中,這在很大程度上是穩定的,當然,正如我所說,從長遠來看,隨著我們指導更大的穩定技術,可能會有小的變化。但這是我們今天所看到的指導。在我們對整個公司全年的指導中,我們假設我們也將解決我們目前擁有的那兩起未決訴訟。

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Then when it comes to the U.S. market and the inventory question, we, of course, saw a couple of years of heavy investment in North America. So after this, it is natural to expect some level of digestion in 2023. And it could also include some inventory digestion. But -- this is actually also built in our assumptions for 2023 when we said that the first half of the year would potentially be weaker in Mobile Networks than the second half.

    然後談到美國市場和庫存問題,我們當然看到了幾年在北美的大量投資。因此,在此之後,預計 2023 年會有一定程度的消化是很自然的。而且還可能包括一些庫存消化。但是——這實際上也建立在我們對 2023 年的假設中,當時我們說今年上半年的移動網絡可能會比下半年弱。

  • It's also important to consider that our relative position in the region in North America with the major service providers is not only with major service providers, we have larger base there. We are working with Tier 2 and Tier 3 operators. We are working with enterprise customers, and we have the large network infrastructure business, which in this situation may be a bit less vulnerable.

    同樣重要的是要考慮到我們在北美地區與主要服務提供商的相對地位不僅與主要服務提供商有關,我們在那裡擁有更大的基礎。我們正在與 Tier 2 和 Tier 3 運營商合作。我們正在與企業客戶合作,我們擁有大型網絡基礎設施業務,在這種情況下可能不那麼脆弱。

  • We also need to remember that when you look at the 3 large carriers in the U.S., their CapEx announcements that they have made, it's not that different from what they said 2, 3 years ago. They increased investments in 2022. There may be a slight change in the plans for '23 as they have now announced, but the big picture is still very much the same as it was. And we have to remember that the need for new capacity will continue also in North America.

    我們還需要記住,當您查看美國的 3 家大型運營商時,他們發布的資本支出公告與他們 2、3 年前所說的並沒有什麼不同。他們在 2022 年增加了投資。他們現在宣布的 23 年計劃可能會略有變化,但總體情況仍然與過去非常相似。我們必須記住,北美也將繼續需要新產能。

  • So after the dip, there will be a need for new investments again. So that's why we are not expecting anything dramatic to happen in that market. But as we have said, in Mobile Networks, there will be a regional mix shift where, in relative terms, North America will be slightly lower and India will be the fast growth market. And that is then also going to be reflected in margins though so that we expect to be able to compensate that mix change with scale benefits, with normalizing supply chain and very importantly, technology development that is driving down the cost of the product.

    因此,在下跌之後,將再次需要新的投資。所以這就是為什麼我們不期望在那個市場上發生任何戲劇性的事情。但正如我們所說,在移動網絡領域,區域組合將發生轉變,相對而言,北美將略有下降,而印度將成為快速增長的市場。然後這也將反映在利潤率上,因此我們希望能夠通過規模效益、標準化供應鏈以及非常重要的技術開發來補償這種組合變化,從而降低產品成本。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • (Operator Instructions). We'll take our next question from Sami Sarkamies from Danske Bank.

    (操作員說明)。我們將從丹斯克銀行的 Sami Sarkamies 那裡回答下一個問題。

  • Sami Sarkamies - Analyst

    Sami Sarkamies - Analyst

  • I want to dig deeper into your Enterprise aspirations. You mentioned a double-digit share as an interim target, but what could be the level in the long run? Are you planning to make acquisitions in order to strengthen your offering in this area, and can you please provide guidance on how long growth investments will go to margins? And what could be the level in the long run relative to CSP margins?

    我想更深入地了解您的企業抱負。你提到了兩位數的份額作為中期目標,但從長遠來看可能是什麼水平?您是否計劃進行收購以加強您在該領域的產品,能否就增長投資將在多長時間內實現利潤提供指導?從長遠來看,相對於 CSP 利潤率的水平可能是多少?

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Well, the margin question, Enterprise versus CSPs, we are not opening up at this stage. We are reporting the numbers in our businesses because Enterprise is not a full P&L as such. It is a customer segment, which has its own sales teams, but it's not a full P&L.

    那麼,利潤率問題,企業與 CSP,我們現階段不開放。我們正在報告我們業務中的數字,因為 Enterprise 本身並不是完整的損益表。這是一個客戶群,有自己的銷售團隊,但不是完整的損益表。

  • In terms of the ambition level, it is very clear, we want to continue double-digit growth. The market looks promising in terms of being able to support that. We have now increased to 8%, then we want to go to double digit. And once we are there, then it's the time to discuss the next steps. But of course, we want that to continue. We do not want it to stop at 10%. So after 10% comes 15% and then comes 20%, but how long that will take, I'm not going to speculate on right now.

    就雄心水平而言,很明確,我們希望繼續保持兩位數的增長。就能夠支持這一點而言,市場看起來很有希望。我們現在已經增加到 8%,然後我們想達到兩位數。一旦我們到了那裡,就該討論下一步了。但當然,我們希望這種情況繼續下去。我們不希望它停留在 10%。所以在 10% 之後是 15%,然後是 20%,但這需要多長時間,我現在不打算推測。

  • In terms of priorities, the #1 priority is organic development. Then if that is not enough, then bolt-on type of acquisitions would be the second priority. That's really what we are focusing on in terms of this business.

    就優先事項而言,第一要務是有機發展。然後,如果這還不夠,那麼補強式收購將是第二優先事項。就這項業務而言,這確實是我們關注的重點。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take our next question from Daniel Djurberg from Handelsbanken.

    我們將從 Handelsbanken 的 Daniel Djurberg 那裡回答下一個問題。

  • Daniel Djurberg - Research Analyst

    Daniel Djurberg - Research Analyst

  • Thank you very much, Pekka and Marco, and thanks for the business deep dive. A question on gross profit. It was down 1% in Mobile Networks in Q4, still up [13%] year-over-year for the full year. And Obviously, we see large changes in the mix in '23. And you do expect some 5% growth at constant currency for the Mobile Networks side. But my question is really with regards to -- what do you see as triggers for gross profit for Mobile Networks in '23?

    非常感謝 Pekka 和 Marco,也感謝您對業務的深入研究。關於毛利的問題。移動網絡在第四季度下降了 1%,但全年仍同比增長 [13%]。顯然,我們看到 23 年的組合發生了巨大變化。你確實預計移動網絡方面的固定匯率增長約 5%。但我的問題實際上是關於 - 你認為 23 年移動網絡毛利的觸發因素是什麼?

  • And also if you can comment on '24, '25 time frame, when we see even lower growth for the Radio Access Network market, should we pencil in a decline in gross profit? Or can you work with other issues, so you can get the gross margin and gross profit growing again?

    而且,如果您可以評論 24 和 25 年的時間框架,當我們看到無線電接入網絡市場的增長甚至更低時,我們是否應該考慮毛利的下降?或者你能不能解決其他問題,這樣你就能讓毛利率和毛利潤再次增長?

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Well, we are, of course, not giving specific guidance on gross profit, but it is clear that the regional mix development will put a pressure on Mobile Networks gross margin in 2023. But as I said, we do expect that we will be able to mitigate that drop with scale benefits, technology development and normalizing supply chain.

    嗯,當然,我們沒有給出毛利的具體指導,但很明顯,區域組合發展將在 2023 年對移動網絡的毛利率造成壓力。但正如我所說,我們確實希望我們能夠通過規模效益、技術開發和規範供應鏈來緩解這種下降。

  • So the drop will not be that dramatic as if we only took the different -- the price differences between different regions. So there are mitigations that we can use. And we have taken all this into account when we have then put together this 7% to 10% operating margins.

    因此,下降不會那麼劇烈,就好像我們只考慮了不同地區之間的價格差異一樣。所以我們可以使用一些緩解措施。當我們將這 7% 到 10% 的營業利潤率放在一起時,我們已經考慮了所有這些因素。

  • So once again, gross margin, we are not guiding. We do expect that Mobile Networks will be the fastest-growing one of our 4 businesses this year. So that obviously is a supporting element to the gross profit that you asked, lower gross margin is then taking some of that away. But the overall result is that we expect 7% to 10% comparable operating margin.

    所以再一次,毛利率,我們沒有指導。我們確實預計移動網絡將成為我們今年 4 大業務中增長最快的業務之一。因此,這顯然是您所要求的毛利的一個支撐因素,較低的毛利率會帶走其中的一部分。但總體結果是,我們預計可比營業利潤率為 7% 至 10%。

  • Then when it comes to '24 and '25, we are not commenting at this stage other than confirming that our aspiration in the Mobile Networks business is to get to double-digit profitability.

    然後,當談到 24 和 25 年時,我們現階段不會發表評論,只是確認我們在移動網絡業務中的願望是實現兩位數的盈利能力。

  • Marco Wiren - CFO

    Marco Wiren - CFO

  • And then just building over what Pekka said that also in the aspiration slide that we showed earlier, we have an aspiration to gain market share in the longer run. So even if markets are going up and down, so the market share gain is definitely in our aspirations.

    然後只是建立在 Pekka 所說的基礎上,同樣在我們之前展示的願望幻燈片中,我們有一個長期獲得市場份額的願望。因此,即使市場起伏不定,市場份額的增加也絕對是我們的願望。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take our next question from Richard Kramer from Arete Research.

    我們將從 Arete Research 的 Richard Kramer 那裡回答下一個問題。

  • Richard Alan Kramer - Founder, MD & Senior Analyst

    Richard Alan Kramer - Founder, MD & Senior Analyst

  • If limited to one question, I wanted to ask Pekka. One of the challenges in the last few years has been visibility both on component supply and also in customer demand. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how -- whether your raised margin targets in NI and MN are a function of having a clear picture or visibility of customer demand?

    如果僅限於一個問題,我想問佩卡。過去幾年的挑戰之一是組件供應和客戶需求的可見性。我想知道你是否可以談談如何 - 你在 NI 和 MN 提高的利潤率目標是否是對客戶需求的清晰了解或可見性的功能?

  • And can you comment a little bit on your book-to-bill ratio ending 2022 and what you expect in terms of development? I think you mentioned a bit about seasonality, but do you now have a good view of what you expect for the full year of '23 with operator spend?

    您能否對 2022 年底的訂單出貨比以及您對發展的期望發表一些評論?我想你提到了一些關於季節性的問題,但你現在對你對 23 年全年運營商支出的期望有一個很好的了解嗎?

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Okay. Thanks. That's a great question. We actually start this year in relative terms with a stronger order book than what we started last year when you compare the order book to the stated target. So that gives us confidence on this year's outlook. We had a good book-to-bill in our businesses in 2022, which then helped to build this order backlog for '23. Now what will help, of course, is then the fact that the supply chain has more or less normalized from availability point of view.

    好的。謝謝。這是一個很好的問題。實際上,我們今年開始時的訂單量比去年開始時的訂單量要多,當您將訂單量與既定目標進行比較時。因此,這讓我們對今年的前景充滿信心。我們在 2022 年的業務中有很好的訂單出貨比,這有助於建立 23 年的訂單積壓。現在,當然,從可用性的角度來看,供應鍊或多或少已經標準化這一事實將有所幫助。

  • Then of course, I do not want to get into details on pricing on semiconductors. There's a lot of negotiations going on. People try to understand where the prices will go. But availability has normalized. What has not normalized is lead times. And that is one of the reasons why we have a lot of inventory. We need to maintain a higher buffer inventory than normally because of the lead times.

    當然,我不想詳細介紹半導體的定價。有很多談判正在進行。人們試圖了解價格將走向何方。但可用性已經正常化。沒有標準化的是交貨時間。這就是我們有大量庫存的原因之一。由於交貨時間的原因,我們需要保持比正常情況下更高的緩衝庫存。

  • Will that change during the year? Hopefully, it would gradually start changing. That would then start helping on the networking capital side. When it comes to prices and cost of the supply chain, we have seen some good development on memory prices. But then when it comes to logic and analog, we have not really seen that yet. So that all remains to be seen where the markets will take us.

    年內會有變化嗎?希望它會逐漸開始改變。這將開始在網絡資本方面有所幫助。在供應鏈的價格和成本方面,我們看到內存價格出現了一些良好的發展。但是當談到邏輯和模擬時,我們還沒有真正看到這一點。因此,市場將把我們帶到哪裡還有待觀察。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take our next question from Peter Nielsen from ABG.

    我們將從 ABG 的 Peter Nielsen 那裡回答下一個問題。

  • Peter Kurt Nielsen - Lead Analyst

    Peter Kurt Nielsen - Lead Analyst

  • Sorry to return to Mobile Networks margins. But as you said, near-term dilution from the changing mix, but still expect a stable margin for the full year for this year, which would suggest quite a strong finish to the year. Can I just ask, when you talk about the offsetting factors and you highlight scale benefits, is that margins in India that will ramp up significantly towards the second half of the year.

    很抱歉回到移動網絡利潤率。但正如你所說,近期因組合變化而稀釋,但仍預計今年全年的利潤率將保持穩定,這表明今年的收尾相當強勁。我能問一下,當你談到抵消因素並強調規模效益時,印度的利潤率將在今年下半年大幅上升。

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Yes. I had a little bit difficulties to hear the question. But if I understood it correctly, you asked about -- especially about the scale and benefits as a mitigating factor. And you mentioned India. Absolutely, India is the key driver there, but it's not the only driver. We have also other places where we have growing volumes. So overall, we are -- as I said, MN, we expect it to be the fastest growing business in Nokia with a lot of additional scale benefits due to the fast growth, especially in India.

    是的。我聽到這個問題有點困難。但是,如果我理解正確的話,你會問——尤其是關於規模和收益作為緩解因素的問題。你提到了印度。毫無疑問,印度是那裡的關鍵驅動力,但它不是唯一的驅動力。我們還有其他地方的產量在增長。所以總的來說,我們 - 正如我所說,MN,我們希望它成為諾基亞增長最快的業務,由於快速增長,特別是在印度,它會帶來很多額外的規模效益。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take our next question from Sandeep Deshpande from JPMorgan.

    我們將從摩根大通的 Sandeep Deshpande 那裡回答下一個問題。

  • Sandeep Sudhir Deshpande - Research Analyst

    Sandeep Sudhir Deshpande - Research Analyst

  • Quick question on network infrastructure. Clearly, you've seen a very good trend in the fourth quarter, and you laid out a good plan in the long term. I'm trying to understand, but historically, the optical business was loss-making and the new chips, et cetera, has turned the growth trajectory around. What, I mean, is it new customers that you're getting on board? Is it the technology that is driving it? Or is it a geopolitical trends that are driving it? I try to understand the longevity of the turnaround in the optical business, given that this has been such a difficult business to turn around over the last decade?

    關於網絡基礎設施的快速問題。顯然,您在第四季度看到了非常好的趨勢,並且制定了長期的良好計劃。我試圖理解,但從歷史上看,光學業務一直處於虧損狀態,而新芯片等已經扭轉了增長軌跡。什麼,我的意思是,你要加入的是新客戶嗎?是技術在推動它嗎?還是地緣政治趨勢在推動它?考慮到在過去十年中這是一項如此難以扭轉的業務,我試圖了解光學行業扭轉局面的長壽?

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Thank you, Sandeep. That's an excellent question, and you actually highlighted the 3 key levers there quite correctly. It used to be a loss-making business. And when we look into the history, there was one silicon generation that we missed, which we have been recovering from. Now we are in a significantly stronger position. We have excellent feedback from customers in terms of PSC 5.

    謝謝你,桑迪普。這是一個很好的問題,您實際上非常正確地突出了 3 個關鍵槓桿。這曾經是一項虧損的業務。當我們回顧歷史時,我們錯過了一代矽,我們一直在從中恢復。現在我們處於明顯更強大的位置。在 PSC 5 方面,我們從客戶那裡得到了很好的反饋。

  • I believe that, as I said, that this is a story that has similarities to mobile networks in many ways. We increased our investment substantially in '21, '22. Now we start to be there in terms of technology. And of course, the development does not stop. I mean there is -- of course, there is more to come. But now the basic technology competitors now starts to be there. We have excellent feedback from customers. We are accelerating now in terms of the pipeline for new deals, and yes, we are also getting, in some cases, help from the geopolitical situation. It has not been as pronounced as we have seen in Mobile Networks, but gradually, these factors seem to be creeping in into the Optical Business as well.

    我相信,正如我所說,這是一個在許多方面與移動網絡有相似之處的故事。我們在 21 年和 22 年大幅增加了投資。現在我們開始在技術方面做到這一點。當然,發展不會停止。我的意思是有——當然,還有更多。但現在基礎技術的競爭對手開始出現了。我們從客戶那裡得到了很好的反饋。就新交易的管道而言,我們現在正在加速,是的,在某些情況下,我們也從地緣政治局勢中獲得幫助。它不像我們在移動網絡中看到的那樣明顯,但逐漸地,這些因素似乎也正在滲透到光業務中。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take our next question from Sébastien Sztabowicz from Kepler Cheuvreux.

    我們將從 Kepler Cheuvreux 的 Sébastien Sztabowicz 那裡回答下一個問題。

  • Sébastien Sztabowicz - Head of Tech - Equipment Research

    Sébastien Sztabowicz - Head of Tech - Equipment Research

  • How do you see the 5G core projects ramping up right now? Do you see any kind of acceleration in the deployment going forward? Or do you still expect some soft environment there?

    您如何看待目前正在加速發展的 5G 核心網項目?您是否看到未來的部署有任何加速?或者你還期待那裡有一些軟環境嗎?

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Sorry, can you clarify 5G project?

    抱歉,你能澄清一下 5G 項目嗎?

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • 5G core.

    5G核心。

  • Sébastien Sztabowicz - Head of Tech - Equipment Research

    Sébastien Sztabowicz - Head of Tech - Equipment Research

  • 5G core project, yes.

    5G核心項目,是的。

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Okay. I mean different trends in the core network business. Obviously, the 5G stand-alone is now the name of the game because you need 5G stand-alone in terms of getting the full benefits of 5G. So there is going to be a lot of investment in 5G core and operators will be implementing some critically important services like slicing which require investments in the 5G core.

    好的。我指的是核心網絡業務的不同趨勢。顯然,5G 獨立機現在是遊戲的名稱,因為就獲得 5G 的全部優勢而言,您需要 5G 獨立機。因此,將對 5G 核心進行大量投資,運營商將實施一些至關重要的服務,如切片,這需要對 5G 核心進行投資。

  • That is also a market that has been through a lot of changes, and there are different parts of the core, and they are a little bit different stages of development. But overall, when we talk about the core network, it is the key part of CNS. In our case, it's highly profitable, and it is something that we are investing significant amounts of money and the highlight of probably of what I talked about in the deep dive, also is really that we are not only making that core network software that we have cloud native, but we have started to offer it as a service as well, which I believe will be really interesting for Enterprise customers and for smaller operators and then gradually expanding to larger operators.

    那也是一個經歷了很多變化的市場,核心有不同的部分,它們的發展階段有點不同。但總的來說,當我們談論核心網絡時,它是 CNS 的關鍵部分。在我們的案例中,它是高利潤的,這是我們投入大量資金的事情,而且我在深入研究中談到的重點可能是,我們不僅在製作我們的核心網絡軟件有云原生,但我們也開始將其作為服務提供,我相信這對企業客戶和小型運營商來說非常有趣,然後逐漸擴展到大型運營商。

  • So it is an interesting market. Obviously, that business is much smaller compared to the radio network part. But strategically, it is an important part of the portfolio.

    所以這是一個有趣的市場。顯然,與無線電網絡部分相比,該業務要小得多。但從戰略上講,它是投資組合的重要組成部分。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take our next question from Rob Sanders from Deutsche Bank.

    我們將從德意志銀行的 Rob Sanders 那裡回答下一個問題。

  • Robert Duncan Cobban Sanders - Director

    Robert Duncan Cobban Sanders - Director

  • I just had a question on India. It looks like it's about perhaps more than 10% of your Mobile Networks business now. I just wanted to ask about the peak because Ericsson is saying that the peak for 5G in India will be in the second half of this year. I just wanted to check if you share that view or do you think it will continue to grow from the second half into 2024?

    我剛剛有一個關於印度的問題。看起來它現在可能佔您移動網絡業務的 10% 以上。我只是想問一下峰值,因為愛立信說印度 5G 的峰值將在今年下半年。我只是想看看你是否同意這個觀點,或者你認為它會從下半年繼續增長到 2024 年嗎?

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • I mean the investments obviously will continue well into '24. And then, of course, like in 4G, I mean, there will be a certain peak when operators are really, really scrambling to get coverage as fast as possible. Most likely then after that, there will be some kind of a leveling off and then it becomes a steady business where you have gradually an opportunity to improve margins, which is exactly how 4G also went.

    我的意思是,這些投資顯然會持續到 24 年。然後,當然,就像在 4G 中一樣,我的意思是,當運營商真的、真的爭先恐後地盡快獲得覆蓋時,會有一個高峰。在那之後,很可能會出現某種平穩,然後它會成為一個穩定的業務,你逐漸有機會提高利潤率,這正是 4G 的發展方向。

  • Look, without revealing what our customers have told us specifically, and it's a highly competitive situation in India right now, I'm not going to speculate when exactly the peak will be. But it is absolutely true that there is going to be a very quick ramp-up. And of course, on that level, the investments cannot continue for many years.

    聽著,在不透露我們的客戶具體告訴我們什麼的情況下,現在印度的競爭非常激烈,我不打算推測高峰期的具體時間。但毫無疑問,將會有一個非常快速的增長。當然,在這個層面上,投資無法持續多年。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • We'll take our last question from Artem Beletski from SEB.

    我們將接受來自 SEB 的 Artem Beletski 的最後一個問題。

  • Artem Beletski - Analyst

    Artem Beletski - Analyst

  • So I would like to ask about network infrastructure and basically growth outlook for this year within different subsegments. So where do you see the best momentum currently? And whether do you expect also basically 4 businesses to grow this year in constant currencies?

    所以我想問一下今年不同細分市場的網絡基礎設施和基本增長前景。那麼,您認為目前最好的勢頭在哪裡?您是否預計今年基本上還有 4 家企業以固定匯率增長?

  • Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

    Pekka Ilmari Lundmark - President & CEO

  • Yes, Artem, we do see growth opportunities in all 4 businesses this year. We expect the overall market to grow this year, and we see opportunities for taking market share through the levers that I discussed in the deep dive. So we continue to have a positive look on the prospects of that business.

    是的,Artem,今年我們確實看到了所有 4 項業務的增長機會。我們預計今年整體市場將增長,並且我們看到了通過我在深入探討中討論的槓桿來奪取市場份額的機會。因此,我們繼續看好該業務的前景。

  • David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

    David Terence Mulholland - Head of IR

  • Thank you, Pekka. Thank you, Artem, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today. Apologies to those in the queue that we didn't manage to get to, but that does conclude today's call. You'll find the presentations that we used in today's event published on our website, and they should be available now.

    謝謝你,佩卡。謝謝你,Artem,也謝謝大家今天加入我們。向隊列中的那些我們未能到達的人道歉,但這確實結束了今天的電話會議。您會在我們的網站上找到我們在今天的活動中使用的演示文稿,現在應該可以使用了。

  • I would like to remind you that during the call today, we have made a number of forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may, therefore, differ materially from the results currently expected. Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We have identified such risks in the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

    我想提醒您,在今天的電話會議中,我們做出了一些涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述。因此,實際結果可能與當前預期的結果存在重大差異。可能導致此類差異的因素既可以是外部操作因素,也可以是內部操作因素。我們已在 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分確定了此類風險,該表格可在我們的投資者關係網站上獲取。

  • Thank you all for joining us.

    謝謝大家加入我們。