諾基亞 (NOK) 2022 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nokia's Third Quarter 2022 Results Call. I'm David Mulholland, Head of Nokia Investor Relations. And today with me is Pekka Lundmark, our President and CEO; along with Marco Wiren, our CFO.

早上好，女士們，先生們。歡迎參加諾基亞 2022 年第三季度業績電話會議。我是諾基亞投資者關係主管 David Mulholland。今天和我在一起的是我們的總裁兼首席執行官 Pekka Lundmark；與我們的首席財務官 Marco Wiren 一起。

Before we get started, a quick disclaimer. During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements regarding our future business and financial performance, and these statements are predictions that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may, therefore, differ materially from the results we currently expect. Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We have identified such risks in the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

在我們開始之前，快速免責聲明。在本次電話會議中，我們將對我們未來的業務和財務業績做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述是涉及風險和不確定性的預測。因此，實際結果可能與我們目前預期的結果大相徑庭。可能導致這種差異的因素既可以是外部因素，也可以是內部操作因素。我們已在我們的 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分確定了此類風險，該表格可在我們的投資者關係網站上找到。

Within today's presentation, references to growth rates will mostly be on a constant currency growth rate, and margins will be on our comparable reporting. Please note that our Q3 report and a presentation that accompanies this call are published on our website. The report includes both reported and comparable financial results and reconciliation between the 2.

在今天的介紹中，對增長率的參考將主要以恆定的貨幣增長率為基礎，而利潤率將在我們的可比報告中。請注意，我們的第三季度報告和本次電話會議隨附的演示文稿已發佈在我們的網站上。該報告包括報告的和可比的財務結果以及兩者之間的對賬。

In terms of the agenda for today, Pekka will give a quick overview of our financial and strategic progress in the quarter. Marco will then go into a bit more detail of some of the key factors impacting our financial performance following with our outlook for 2022.

就今天的議程而言，Pekka 將簡要概述我們在本季度的財務和戰略進展。然後，Marco 將更詳細地介紹影響我們財務業績的一些關鍵因素，以及我們對 2022 年的展望。

With that, let me hand over to Pekka.

有了這個，讓我交給Pekka。

Thank you, David, and good morning, everybody. The third quarter marked a very important step for our company in the execution of our 3-phase strategy. If you recall, in the beginning of this year, we said we had completed our reset in 2021 and that we were moving it to accelerate in 2022, where we would focus on accelerating our sales growth and expanding our margins. For the first half of this year, the supply chain has really constrained us from delivering on that growth. But as we start to see some improvements in the supply chain, we are also seeing good progress on growth.

謝謝你，大衛，大家早上好。第三季度標誌著我們公司在執行我們的三階段戰略中邁出了非常重要的一步。如果你還記得，在今年年初，我們說我們已經在 2021 年完成了重置，並且我們將在 2022 年加速重置，屆時我們將專注於加速銷售增長和擴大利潤率。今年上半年，供應鏈確實限制了我們實現這一增長。但隨著我們開始看到供應鏈有所改善，我們也看到了增長方面的良好進展。

In the third quarter, our growth accelerated to 6% year-on-year, up from the 3% that we delivered in Q2. Importantly, this was driven by a strong improvement in Mobile Networks as we start to see benefits of our renewed competitiveness. From a profitability perspective, our margins continue to be impacted by the timing effects of outstanding deals in Nokia Technologies, which meant that our gross margin declined 40 basis points year-on-year and our operating margin declined 120 basis points.

在第三季度，我們的增長率從第二季度的 3% 加快至 6%。重要的是，這是由移動網絡的強勁改進推動的，因為我們開始看到我們重新獲得競爭力的好處。從盈利能力的角度來看，我們的利潤率繼續受到諾基亞技術未完成交易的時間效應的影響，這意味著我們的毛利率同比下降了 40 個基點，我們的營業利潤率下降了 120 個基點。

To better understand the margin progress in our business without the volatility of the timing of Nokia Technologies deals, you can see on the slide the progress of our gross margin and operating margin, both including and excluding Nokia Technologies. The charts clearly illustrate the progress we are making in our underlying product business with our operating margin up 70 basis points year-over-year in Q3. Clearly, we remain focused on resolving the outstanding deals in Nokia Technologies, but we are also focused on protecting the value of our patent portfolio over achieving any specific time frame.

為了更好地了解我們業務的利潤率進展，而不考慮諾基亞技術交易時間的波動，您可以在幻燈片上看到我們的毛利率和營業利潤率的進展，包括和不包括諾基亞技術。這些圖表清楚地說明了我們在基礎產品業務方面取得的進展，我們的營業利潤率在第三季度同比增長 70 個基點。顯然，我們仍然專注於解決諾基亞技術公司的未決交易，但我們也專注於保護我們的專利組合的價值，而不是實現任何特定的時間框架。

I will now turn to each of the business group's performances in more detail, starting with Mobile Networks. You will know the challenges that impacted our financial performance and particularly our top line performance in 2021, but we are now really starting to see the benefits of our new products and renewed competitiveness. We delivered 12% net sales growth in Q3, representing a strong acceleration. We are starting to see some improvements in the supply chain with it becoming less of a constraint on the business. We did benefit from an element of catch-up sales in the quarter which we could have shipped early in the year, but the overriding point here is that we are now clearly on a path to grow on a full year basis in Mobile Networks.

我現在將更詳細地介紹每個業務組的表現，從移動網絡開始。您將了解影響我們財務業績，尤其是 2021 年收入業績的挑戰，但我們現在真正開始看到我們的新產品帶來的好處和新的競爭力。我們在第三季度實現了 12% 的淨銷售額增長，代表著強勁的加速增長。我們開始看到供應鏈有所改善，對業務的限制越來越少。我們確實從本季度的追趕銷售中受益，我們本可以在年初發貨，但這裡最重要的一點是，我們現在顯然正走在移動網絡全年增長的道路上。

On top of the sales growth we have already -- we are already seeing, we also signed some significant contracts in India in Q3 with Bharti Airtel we've been awarded a 45% share of their planned 5G network continuing our long-standing good partnership. On top of that, just this week, we announced a deal with the Reliance Jio, where we will be a major supplier for their planned 5G network deployments.

除了我們已經看到的銷售增長之外，我們還在第三季度與 Bharti Airtel 在印度簽署了一些重要合同，我們已經獲得了他們計劃中的 5G 網絡的 45% 份額，繼續我們長期的良好合作夥伴關係.最重要的是，就在本週，我們宣布與 Reliance Jio 達成協議，我們將成為他們計劃中的 5G 網絡部署的主要供應商。

As you know, we have not been a radio access supplier to Reliance Jio previously, so this is a very meaningful new customer engagement for us and an important market share gain. We have stated previously that our ambition is to grow faster than the market in Mobile Networks and to gain share, and it is deals like this which we believe will firmly put us on a path to deliver that.

如您所知，我們以前不是 Reliance Jio 的無線電接入供應商，所以這對我們來說是一個非常有意義的新客戶參與，也是一個重要的市場份額增長。我們之前曾表示，我們的目標是比移動網絡市場增長得更快並獲得份額，我們相信這樣的交易將使我們堅定地走上實現這一目標的道路。

Our margins also continued to improve in Q3 with operating margin up 250 basis points year-over-year, although we did continue to benefit from a favorable regional mix in the quarter, which we expect will somewhat reverse in Q4.

我們的利潤率在第三季度也繼續提高，營業利潤率同比增長 250 個基點，儘管我們確實繼續受益於該季度有利的區域組合，我們預計第四季度將有所逆轉。

Turning to Network Infrastructure, where we continue to see robust growth despite increasingly challenging comparisons. This was particularly the case in our Fixed Networks business, which still delivered 7% growth. We also continue to extend our technology leadership with the announcement of our Lightspan MF-14 platform earlier this week, which gives us a clear road map all the way towards 50G and 100G solutions. It will obviously be many years before these are in wider commercial use, but it gives customers the confidence in our future road map for them to invest in today.

轉向網絡基礎設施，儘管比較具有挑戰性，但我們繼續看到強勁的增長。我們的固定網絡業務尤其如此，仍然實現了 7% 的增長。我們還通過本週早些時候宣布的 Lightspan MF-14 平台繼續擴大我們的技術領先地位，這為我們提供了通向 50G 和 100G 解決方案的清晰路線圖。顯然，這些產品在更廣泛的商業用途之前還需要很多年，但它讓客戶對我們未來的路線圖充滿信心，讓他們今天投資。

Our Optical Networks business still faces some specific supply chain constraints, but it's doing a good job managing the situation, and demand remains strong. We believe the supply situation should continue to improve through Q4 and into the first half of 2023.

我們的光網絡業務仍面臨一些特定的供應鏈限制，但它在管理情況方面做得很好，需求依然強勁。我們認為供應狀況應該會在第四季度和 2023 年上半年繼續改善。

In IP Networks, we continue to progress well on our FP5 ramp-up and are also making encouraging progress in webscale. And finally, in Submarine Networks, we continue to execute against its substantial backlog of subsea fiber deployments. While gross margin was stable, operating margin for Network Infrastructure was up 50 basis points due to operating leverage on fixed costs.

在 IP 網絡方面，我們繼續在 FP5 加速方面取得良好進展，並且在網絡規模方面也取得了令人鼓舞的進展。最後，在 Submarine Networks 中，我們繼續執行其大量積壓的海底光纖部署。雖然毛利率保持穩定，但由於固定成本的運營槓桿作用，網絡基礎設施的運營利潤率上升了 50 個基點。

In Cloud and Network Services, there was a slight decline in net sales, but we continued to make progress with our portfolio rebalancing. Gross margin continued to show improvements, expanding by 140 basis points, while our increased investments in private wireless meant that operating margin showed a decline of 210 basis points, yet we saw continued momentum in our Enterprise Solutions business, which grew at a double-digit rate in the quarter.

在雲和網絡服務方面，淨銷售額略有下降，但我們在投資組合再平衡方面繼續取得進展。毛利率繼續改善，增長了 140 個基點，而我們對私人無線的投資增加意味著營業利潤率下降了 210 個基點，但我們看到企業解決方案業務繼續保持增長勢頭，實現兩位數增長本季度的利率。

In Nokia Technologies, there was good progress in their new growth areas including in consumer electronics and automotive, which have achieved more than EUR 100 million in net sales over the last 12 months from being negligible in 2018. The ongoing timing of contract renewals we have referred to previously continued to adversely impact the quarter. These renewals continue to progress, and we remain confident in our ability to return to a run rate of EUR 1.4 billion to EUR 1.5 billion once these renewal discussions have closed.

在諾基亞技術公司，包括消費電子和汽車在內的新增長領域取得了良好進展，在過去 12 個月中實現了超過 1 億歐元的淨銷售額，而 2018 年這一數字微不足道。之前提到的繼續對本季度產生不利影響。這些續約繼續進行，一旦這些續約討論結束，我們仍然有能力恢復 14 億至 15 億歐元的運行率。

One of the biggest opportunities we have in the midterm is to grow our business beyond CSPs into the Enterprise segment. We believe this will be the fastest-growing portion of our addressable market and our products are increasingly compelling. In recent quarters, we have highlighted how strong our order growth has been. In Q3, I was pleased to see Enterprise accelerate strongly, delivering 22% growth in constant currency year-over-year supported by the improving supply chain situation.

我們在中期擁有的最大機會之一是將我們的業務從 CSP 擴展到企業領域。我們相信這將是我們目標市場中增長最快的部分，我們的產品將越來越引人注目。最近幾個季度，我們強調了我們的訂單增長有多強勁。在第三季度，我很高興看到 Enterprise 強勁增長，在供應鏈形勢改善的支持下，按固定匯率計算同比增長 22%。

We continue to have great momentum in the private wireless space, where we added another 30 customers in Q3. We are building the engagements we need with our partner network to really scale this business for the future. I should also mention that we signed a new webscale customer for our IP routing products in the quarter.

我們在私人無線領域繼續保持強勁勢頭，我們在第三季度又增加了 30 個客戶。我們正在與我們的合作夥伴網絡建立我們需要的合作，以真正為未來擴展這項業務。我還應該提到，我們在本季度為我們的 IP 路由產品簽署了一個新的網絡規模客戶。

All of these points are very important for our longer-term strategy as it's critical that we build momentum in Enterprise to deliver on our longer-term growth ambitions. From what I have seen so far, I'm confident this will remain our fastest-growing customer segment over time.

所有這些點對於我們的長期戰略都非常重要，因為我們在企業中建立動力以實現我們的長期增長目標至關重要。從我目前看到的情況來看，我相信隨著時間的推移，這將是我們增長最快的客戶群。

Two other topics I want to touch on before handing over to Marco, supply chain and how we plan to navigate the ongoing macro uncertainty. On supply chain, the situation is improving but remains tight. In many areas of the business, it's now becoming less of a constraint. In some areas, we were even able to catch up on some of our backlog from prior quarters. However, in other areas, such as in Optical Networks, it remains an issue. So overall, the picture is improving, but we still believe it will not be before the first half of 2023 before there are no longer material constraints on any part of the business.

在移交給 Marco 之前，我想談談另外兩個主題，供應鏈以及我們計劃如何應對持續的宏觀不確定性。在供應鏈方面，情況正在好轉，但仍然吃緊。在業務的許多領域，它現在變得不再是一種限制。在某些領域，我們甚至能夠趕上前幾個季度的一些積壓工作。然而，在其他領域，例如在光網絡中，它仍然是一個問題。因此，總體而言，情況正在改善，但我們仍然認為，在 2023 年上半年之前，業務的任何部分都不再受到實質性限制。

Finally, we fully recognize the ongoing macro and geopolitical uncertainty. If anything, those uncertainties have increased in recent months. There is clearly a risk that this could start to impact the CapEx spending of some of our customers. However, as we look ahead to 2023, considering the significant ramp-ups that are expected in regions like India, which are just beginning their 5G journeys, the ongoing fiber rollout, which is also now supported by a number of government funding programs, and the opportunities we see in Enterprise, we currently expect our addressable market will grow on a constant currency basis.

最後，我們充分認識到當前宏觀和地緣政治的不確定性。如果有的話，這些不確定性在最近幾個月有所增加。顯然，這可能會開始影響我們一些客戶的資本支出。然而，當我們展望 2023 年時，考慮到印度等剛剛開始 5G 旅程的地區預計將出現顯著增長，正在進行的光纖部署，現在也得到了一些政府資助計劃的支持，以及我們在企業中看到的機會，我們目前預計我們的目標市場將在不變的貨幣基礎上增長。

Against this backdrop, we believe we are putting ourselves firmly on a path to outperform the market and gain market share. We will not become complacent and we will continue to evolve our plans as the outlook for our end markets become clearer, but I'm talking today about what we are currently seeing from a bottom-up perspective.

在此背景下，我們相信我們正在堅定地走上跑贏市場並獲得市場份額的道路。我們不會自滿，隨著終端市場的前景變得更加清晰，我們將繼續發展我們的計劃，但我今天談論的是我們目前從自下而上的角度看到的情況。

With that, I'll hand over to Marco and look forward to your questions.

有了這個，我將交給 Marco 並期待您的問題。

Thanks, Pekka, and hello from my side as well.

謝謝，Pekka，我這邊也你好。

If we now look a bit deeper into our financial results, group net sales growth accelerated in Q3 to 16% on a reported basis and 6% at constant currency. While FX had a clear positive impact on our net sales, we also saw constant currency growth across many of our regions. Once again, we had a strong growth in North America, increasing 10% year-over-year as ongoing 5G deployments in the region drove double-digit growth in Mobile Networks. This was somewhat muted by Network Infrastructure, which declined mostly due to the Fixed Networks as continued strength in fiber was not enough to offset declines in fixed wireless access while -- which is quite sensitive to a small number of customers.

如果我們現在更深入地研究一下我們的財務業績，第三季度集團淨銷售額增長在報告的基礎上加速至 16%，按固定匯率計算為 6%。雖然外匯對我們的淨銷售額產生了明顯的積極影響，但我們也看到我們許多地區的貨幣持續增長。由於該地區持續的 5G 部署推動了移動網絡的兩位數增長，我們再次在北美實現了強勁增長，同比增長 10%。網絡基礎設施有所減弱，主要是由於固定網絡的下降，因為光纖的持續強度不足以抵消固定無線接入的下降，而這對少數客戶非常敏感。

In Europe, net sales grew slightly in the quarter. And excluding the impact from Nokia Technologies, which is entirely reported in this region, Europe would have grown at a double-digit rate. This largely reflected strength in both Mobile Networks and Network Infrastructure.

在歐洲，本季度的淨銷售額略有增長。不包括諾基亞技術的影響（完全在該地區報導），歐洲將以兩位數的速度增長。這在很大程度上反映了移動網絡和網絡基礎設施的實力。

Elsewhere, we saw growth in Latin America, Greater China and Middle East and Africa, while Asia Pacific and India declined. India was impacted by 5G license timing with expected deployments to ramp up in the coming quarters.

在其他地方，我們看到拉丁美洲、大中華區、中東和非洲的增長，而亞太地區和印度則有所下降。印度受到 5G 許可時間的影響，預計未來幾個季度的部署將增加。

If we then turn to profitability, you can see the changes on the slide by business group. In Mobile Networks, our operating margin expanded by 250 basis points year-over-year as the strong net sales growth also translated into good margin expansion. We continued to see a shift towards product sales and away from services. And the business also had a strong regional mix in the quarter, which we do assume will become less favorable in the fourth quarter. Network Infrastructure continued the strong execution we've seen over the past couple of years with operating margin up 50 basis points year-over-year, and this is largely thanks to the growth we saw in the business. Cloud and Network Services had a slight decline in profitability year-over-year, but this was due to the investments we are making into private wireless to ensure we capitalize on our early market leadership.

如果我們然後轉向盈利能力，您可以在幻燈片上按業務組看到變化。在移動網絡方面，我們的營業利潤率同比增長 250 個基點，因為強勁的淨銷售額增長也轉化為良好的利潤率擴張。我們繼續看到從服務轉向產品銷售。而且該業務在本季度也有很強的區域組合，我們確實認為這在第四季度會變得不那麼有利。網絡基礎設施延續了我們在過去幾年看到的強勁執行力，營業利潤率同比增長 50 個基點，這在很大程度上要歸功於我們在業務中看到的增長。雲和網絡服務的盈利能力同比略有下降，但這是由於我們正在對私有無線進行投資，以確保我們利用我們早期的市場領導地位。

And we continue to see strong double-digit growth in net sales in this area. And we are confident these investments into both our competitiveness and go to market channels will pay off. And on Nokia Technologies, the effects of closing some outstanding deals continue to impact us in the quarter. As we have stated before, we will prioritize making sure that we achieve the right deal instead of achieving specific timing such as by the end of the year.

我們繼續看到該領域的淨銷售額實現兩位數的強勁增長。我們相信，這些對我們的競爭力和進入市場渠道的投資將會得到回報。對於諾基亞技術，完成一些未完成交易的影響在本季度繼續影響著我們。正如我們之前所說，我們將優先確保我們達成正確的交易，而不是在年底之前實現特定的時間。

In Group Common, we saw a net positive impact from venture funds of about EUR 20 million as some underlying downward revaluations were offset by the continued strengthening of the U.S. dollar. So overall, considering the progress of both Mobile Networks and Network Infrastructure, we delivered a good performance in terms of operating margins in quarter 3.

在 Group Common，我們看到風險基金帶來了約 2000 萬歐元的淨正面影響，因為美元持續走強抵消了一些潛在的向下重估。因此，總體而言，考慮到移動網絡和網絡基礎設施的進展，我們在第三季度的營業利潤率方面表現良好。

And now turning to our cash performance. We generated EUR 266 million of free cash flow in quarter 3 as outflows related to net working capital, taxes and restructurings were more than offset by adjusted profits. Within net working capital, we saw large movements across the individual components. Inventories increased EUR 480 million in the quarter as we continue to build inventory given the challenging supply chain environment and as we anticipate the ramp-up of India 5G deployments. Receivables increased in the quarter, part of which was driven by a decrease of the sale of receivables. Liabilities also increased, which reflect the higher accounts payable and accruals for employee variable pay. Once again, we saw outflows of around EUR 200 million related to payment of our dividend and continuation of our share repurchase program. In turn, this led to a net cash position of EUR 4.7 billion at the end of the quarter.

現在轉向我們的現金表現。我們在第三季度產生了 2.66 億歐元的自由現金流，因為與淨營運資本、稅收和重組相關的流出被調整後的利潤所抵消。在淨營運資本中，我們看到各個組成部分的大幅變動。鑑於充滿挑戰的供應鏈環境以及我們預計印度 5G 部署的增加，我們繼續建立庫存，本季度庫存增加了 4.8 億歐元。本季度應收賬款增加，部分是由於應收賬款銷售減少所致。負債也有所增加，這反映了更高的應付賬款和員工可變薪酬的應計項目。我們再次看到與支付股息和繼續我們的股票回購計劃有關的約 2 億歐元資金外流。反過來，這導致本季度末的淨現金頭寸為 47 億歐元。

And now looking at our total addressable market. We have updated this to show our latest view across business groups. While they have not been any major changes to any specific business group, we have seen some slight uplift across each, which led to higher rounding of the overall addressable market to now be 5%, which is up from previous 4%. Pleasingly, we see a robust demand across markets.

現在看看我們的總目標市場。我們對此進行了更新，以展示我們對各個業務組的最新看法。雖然它們對任何特定業務組沒有任何重大變化，但我們看到每個業務組都有輕微的提升，這導致整個潛在市場的四捨五入更高，現在為 5%，高於之前的 4%。令人高興的是，我們看到整個市場的需求強勁。

Before turning to Q&A, I want to touch briefly on our outlook for 2022. Our full year net sales guidance remains unchanged in constant currency, reflecting the euro-USD rate of USD 0.97, as of end of September, our net sales outlook is now EUR 23.9 billion to EUR 25.1 billion. We have also reiterated our comparable operating margin guidance which is expected to be between 11% to 13.5%. While risks remain around the timing of outstanding licensing deals, assuming these close, we continue to track towards the higher end of our net sales range and towards the midpoint of the comparable operating margin range.

在轉向問答之前，我想簡要介紹一下我們對 2022 年的展望。我們的全年淨銷售額指引以不變貨幣計算保持不變，反映歐元兌美元匯率為 0.97 美元，截至 9 月底，我們的淨銷售額展望現在是239 億歐元至 251 億歐元。我們還重申了我們的可比營業利潤率指引，預計在 11% 至 13.5% 之間。儘管未完成許可交易的時間仍然存在風險，但假設這些交易結束，我們將繼續追踪我們的淨銷售額範圍的高端和可比營業利潤率範圍的中點。

We also updated 2 of our outlook assumptions today. The first one is financial income and expenses, which we now expect to be between EUR 50 million and EUR 150 million this year and over the longer term given the recent foreign exchange volatility and its related impact. And the second is around our CapEx assumptions, we have lowered our expectation for this year to EUR 600 million and continue to expect around EUR 600 million over the longer term, of course, with some year-to-year variation.

我們今天還更新了兩項展望假設。第一個是財務收入和支出，鑑於最近的外匯波動及其相關影響，我們現在預計今年和長期而言將在 5000 萬歐元至 1.5 億歐元之間。第二個是圍繞我們的資本支出假設，我們已將今年的預期下調至 6 億歐元，並繼續預計長期約為 6 億歐元，當然，每年會有一些變化。

So with that, I will hand it back to David for Q&A.

因此，我將把它交給大衛進行問答。

Thank you, Marco and Pekka for your remarks. Before we move to the Q&A session, I just wanted to highlight that we will be hosting our next progress update presentation on the 1st of December focused on our Mobile Networks business with Tommi Uitto, our President of Mobile Networks. The event will be a hybrid event with the in-person element hosted in London.

謝謝 Marco 和 Pekka 的發言。在進入問答環節之前，我只想強調一下，我們將在 12 月 1 日與我們的移動網絡總裁 Tommi Uitto 主持我們的下一次進展更新演示，重點是我們的移動網絡業務。該活動將是一場混合活動，在倫敦舉辦現場活動。

With that, let's start the Q&A. (Operator Instructions). Rachel, could you please give the instructions?

有了這個，讓我們開始問答吧。 （操作員說明）。瑞秋，你能指點一下嗎？

(Operator Instructions) I'll now hand the call back to David.

（操作員說明）我現在將電話轉回給大衛。

Thanks, Rachel. Our first question comes from Andrew Gardiner from Citi.

謝謝，雷切爾。我們的第一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Andrew Gardiner。

I had a question for you on Mobile Networks. So you've done another good job in the quarter. As you highlighted in terms of the margins, that takes you to about 9.6% operating margins for Mobile Networks on a year-to-date basis. Yet for the full year, your assumption is still between 6.5% and 9.5%. I mean even to get to the top end of that range would require a deterioration in 4Q, which is something we normally don't see seasonally. You have just told us that your mix is changing, so I can anticipate perhaps some of that. But it feels like that guidance range looks particularly conservative given what you've already done on a year-to-date basis. Is there anything we're missing there? I mean what are you trying to tell us with that margin range and what's implied for 4Q?

我有一個關於移動網絡的問題。因此，您在本季度又完成了一項出色的工作。正如您在利潤率方面所強調的那樣，移動網絡今年迄今的營業利潤率約為 9.6%。然而對於全年，您的假設仍然在 6.5% 和 9.5% 之間。我的意思是，即使要達到該範圍的頂端，也需要在第四季度出現惡化，這是我們通常看不到的季節性情況。你剛剛告訴我們你的組合正在改變，所以我可以預見到其中的一些。但感覺指導範圍看起來特別保守，因為您已經完成了年初至今的工作。那裡有我們遺漏的東西嗎？我的意思是，您想通過該保證金範圍告訴我們什麼以及第 4 季度的含義是什麼？

Yes. Thank you, Andrew. First of all, I just want to be very clear that our midpoint guidance is on the group level and not on the individual BGs. And just like you rightly pointed out as well that we've been performing quite well on our margins so far within Mobile Networks. But as we also stated clearly that we have had very good regional mix in Mobile Networks so far. And in the fourth quarter, we actually believe that the mix will be less favorable compared to as we've seen now, where the North American region has been very strong so far in this year. So this is the main reason that we are keeping our guidance or assumption on the Mobile Networks and not changing that.

是的。謝謝你，安德魯。首先，我只想非常清楚，我們的中點指導是在小組層面上，而不是在個別 BG 上。就像您正確指出的那樣，到目前為止，我們在移動網絡中的利潤率一直表現良好。但正如我們也明確指出，到目前為止，我們在移動網絡方面的區域組合非常好。實際上，在第四季度，我們認為與我們現在看到的情況相比，這種組合將不太有利，北美地區今年迄今為止一直非常強勁。所以這是我們保持對移動網絡的指導或假設而不改變它的主要原因。

Thank you, Andy. Do you have a follow-up?

謝謝你，安迪。你有後續嗎？

Yes. I mean I suppose just as you're saying, the midpoint of the range is for the group level, but it feels like your answer there in terms of Mobile is clearly pointing it to the high end of the Mobile range.

是的。我的意思是，正如您所說，範圍的中點是針對小組級別的，但感覺您在移動方面的回答顯然指向移動範圍的高端。

Yes. As we see, we only guide at the group level and give some assumptions per BG. So we haven't given any detailed -- but as you see, you pointed out as well, that year-to-date, the margin on Mobile Networks is 9.7 -- 9.6%. And of course, the less favorable regional mix will impact that in quarter 4. And that's why we guide as we do.

是的。如我們所見，我們僅在組級別進行指導，並為每個 BG 提供一些假設。所以我們沒有給出任何細節——但正如你所看到的，你也指出，今年迄今為止，移動網絡的利潤率為 9.7 - 9.6%。當然，不太有利的區域組合將影響第 4 季度的情況。這就是我們這樣做的原因。

Thank you, Andrew. We'll take our next question from Aleksander Peterc from Societe Generale.

謝謝你，安德魯。我們將向法國興業銀行的 Aleksander Peterc 提出下一個問題。

I just have one and then a quick follow-up. So the first one would be, just to be very clear, and I know I could work this out myself, but your current '22 margin guidance is clearly contingent on a timely resolution of the ongoing licensing negotiations and litigations. What does this margin range look like if these do not resolve as you currently expect and they're said to settle in Q4 and fall into '23. so just to give us what you think the margin will be in that case.

我只有一個，然後快速跟進。所以第一個是，非常清楚，我知道我可以自己解決這個問題，但你目前的 '22 保證金指導顯然取決於及時解決正在進行的許可談判和訴訟。如果這些問題沒有像您目前預期的那樣解決，並且據說它們將在第四季度結算並落入 23 年，那麼這個保證金範圍會是什麼樣子。所以只是給我們你認為在這種情況下的利潤。

And then a quick follow-up would be really just a broad outlook on '23, you seem to be fairly confident on growth there, which is positive. Can you also tell us if excluding Technologies, which can be erratic, obviously, and there could be further licensing renegotiations and so on. But excluding Technologies, would it be safe to assume that's continuing growth in your end markets and your market share gains will also warrant an EBIT margin improvement for Mobile Networks, Network Infrastructures and CNS as a whole? Or are there any headwinds that you should bear in mind going into '23?

然後快速跟進實際上只是對 23 年的廣泛展望，你似乎對那裡的增長相當有信心，這是積極的。你能否告訴我們是否排除技術，這顯然是不穩定的，並且可能會有進一步的許可重新談判等等。但不包括技術，是否可以安全地假設終端市場的持續增長和市場份額的增長也將保證移動網絡、網絡基礎設施和 CNS 整體的 EBIT 利潤率提高？或者，進入 23 年，您是否應該記住任何不利因素？

Yes, thank you. Starting with the first part of your question, what comes to license litigations and their resolution for 2022 guidance, now we have assumed that some of these outstanding renewals will be solved and in our guidance. If that would not be the case, we believe that we will still be in the range of 11% to 13.5%.

是的，謝謝。從您問題的第一部分開始，關於 2022 年指南的許可訴訟及其解決方案，現在我們假設其中一些未解決的續訂將在我們的指南中得到解決。如果情況並非如此，我們相信我們仍將在 11% 至 13.5% 的範圍內。

And your second question, what comes to MN, NI and CNS and when it comes to 2023,outlook, I would say that it is a little bit too early to give any specific guidance on 2023, and we will revisit this and get back to you when we report quarter 4 results as well and then we have a better understanding of visibility how the different regions and our customers' CapEx plans will be evolving as well. And -- but I can just mention that, just like we've said earlier, our longer-term guidance is to deliver at least 14%, and we aim to step by step continuously improve our performance towards that goal as well. What comes to different regions and the regional mix that could be changed year-by-year, that could always impact our performance on the gross margin side. But the scale effect could also offset this and give us improvement in our operational margin side.

你的第二個問題，關於 MN、NI 和 CNS 以及 2023 年展望，我想說現在就 2023 年給出任何具體指導還為時過早，我們將重新審視這一點並回到當我們也報告第 4 季度業績時，我們會更好地了解不同地區和我們客戶的資本支出計劃將如何發展的可見性。而且 - 但我可以提一下，就像我們之前所說的那樣，我們的長期指導是至少實現 14%，我們的目標是逐步提高我們的績效以實現這一目標。不同地區的情況和可能逐年改變的地區組合，總是會影響我們在毛利率方面的表現。但規模效應也可以抵消這一點，讓我們提高運營利潤率。

Thank you, Alex. We'll take our next question from Sebastien Sztabowicz from Kepler Cheuvreux.

謝謝你，亞歷克斯。我們將向 Kepler Cheuvreux 的 Sebastien Sztabowicz 提出下一個問題。

You expect some growth in your addressable market in 2023. Where do you see specific upside or downward pressure in your main markets, including Mobile, NI or Cloud and Network Services? And on a follow-up, on IPR renewal, do you have any substantial IPR contracts that are coming to renewal moving into 2023? Or it is more for 2024 onward?

您預計 2023 年您的目標市場會有所增長。您認為主要市場的具體上行或下行壓力在哪裡，包括移動、NI 或云和網絡服務？關於知識產權續約的後續行動，你們是否有任何實質性的知識產權合同要在 2023 年續約？還是 2024 年以後更多？

Yes, I can take the IPR question. And I would say that we have -- every year, we have some renewals. And sometimes we have bigger ones. Sometimes we have smaller ones. Usually, the average contract period, it varies a lot between 3 to 7, up to 10 years. So this is quite normal business for us that we have renewals. So unfortunately, we cannot go into details on different deals and the terms and conditions of those because of the restrictions that we have written in those agreements.

是的，我可以回答知識產權問題。我想說的是，我們每年都有一些續約。有時我們有更大的。有時我們有較小的。通常，平均合同期限在 3 到 7 年之間變化很大，最長可達 10 年。所以這對我們來說是很正常的事情，我們有續約。因此，不幸的是，由於我們在這些協議中所寫的限制，我們無法詳細介紹不同的交易以及這些交易的條款和條件。

Then when it comes to the expected mix in 2023, especially on Mobile Networks, because in the other businesses, the mix changes will most likely not be that meaningful. But in Mobile Networks, we are ramping up strongly in India. And at the same time, it is quite likely that the CapEx of the North American customers will at least somewhat normalize after a very strong year. So that does mean that there will be a mix change in Mobile Networks towards emerging markets, which, as Marco already said, will put some pressure on gross margin. But at the same time, the scale effects will be meaningful, meaning that we will get through the scale better leverage on our fixed cost, which should then support the operating margin?

然後談到 2023 年的預期組合，尤其是在移動網絡方面，因為在其他業務中，組合變化很可能沒有那麼有意義。但在移動網絡方面，我們正在印度大力發展。同時，北美客戶的資本支出很可能在經歷了非常強勁的一年後至少會有所恢復。因此，這確實意味著移動網絡將出現向新興市場的混合變化，正如 Marco 已經說過的那樣，這將對毛利率造成一些壓力。但與此同時，規模效應將是有意義的，這意味著我們將通過規模更好地利用我們的固定成本，這應該支持營業利潤率嗎？

Thank you, Sebastien. We will take our next question from Frank Maao from DNB.

謝謝你，塞巴斯蒂安。我們將接受來自 DNB 的 Frank Maao 的下一個問題。

Yes, most of my questions have actually been answered on the gross margin and IPR side, so I'll pass that on. Thank you.

是的，我的大部分問題實際上已經在毛利率和知識產權方面得到了回答，所以我會繼續下去。謝謝你。

Thanks, Frank. We'll take our next question from Francois Bouvignies from UBS.

謝謝，弗蘭克。我們將向瑞銀的弗朗索瓦·布維尼 (Francois Bouvignies) 提出下一個問題。

My first question is on the mix that you just talked about into next year. I mean it seems that it's going to change dramatically with maybe lower U.S. and maybe more emerging, like you just described. Should we see the Q4 performance as a good indication of the mix impact into 2023 because it looks like the U.S. will come down significantly? And I was wondering, the India, how does it compare this region margin versus the group. Would be helpful to know, but just to know if the Q4 margin should be seen as kind of the level of the mix impact into 2023.

我的第一個問題是關於你剛剛談到的明年的組合。我的意思是，就像你剛才描述的那樣，它似乎會隨著美國的下降甚至更多的新興而發生巨大變化。我們是否應該將第四季度的表現視為對 2023 年混合影響的良好指標，因為看起來美國將顯著下降？我想知道，印度如何將這個地區的利潤率與該集團進行比較。知道會有所幫助，但只是想知道第四季度的利潤率是否應該被視為到 2023 年的混合影響水平。

And the second question is you slightly increased your addressable market for this year, but you didn't increase your revenue at constant currency. So, I understand it's a small increase, but nevertheless, I mean, any reason why you didn't increase your forecast as well? Or anything you could track there would be helpful.

第二個問題是您今年略微增加了目標市場，但您沒有增加以固定貨幣計算的收入。所以，我知道這是一個小幅增長，但是，我的意思是，你有什麼理由不增加你的預測呢？或者您可以在那裡跟踪的任何內容都會有所幫助。

I think what we said about next year is that we expect our addressable market to grow next year, number one. And then number two, we would expect to take market share. But in general, whether it comes to top line or margins, as Marco said, it is too early today to give guidance for next year. We will come back to that question when we publish our Q4 results. And in the same way, I would say that it would be premature today to speculate on whether or not Q4 would be indicative of next year's margin. You have to remember that it's not only the regional mix that we are talking about. It is also improving product competitiveness. It is volumes. And then it is also the quarterly seasonality that we have. So that's why it is not that straightforward that this year's Q4 would be an indication of next year.

我認為我們對明年所說的是，我們預計明年我們的潛在市場將增長，排名第一。然後第二，我們希望佔據市場份額。但總的來說，正如 Marco 所說，無論是收入還是利潤率，今天給出明年的指導還為時過早。當我們發布第四季度結果時，我們將回到這個問題。同樣，我想說，現在推測第四季度是否會預示明年的利潤率還為時過早。您必須記住，我們談論的不僅僅是區域組合。它也在提高產品競爭力。它是卷。然後它也是我們擁有的季度季節性。所以這就是為什麼今年第四季度不是明年的跡象並不那麼簡單的原因。

Thank you, Francois. And we'll take our next question from Sami Sarkamies from Danske Bank.

謝謝你，弗朗索瓦。我們將向丹麥銀行的 Sami Sarkamies 提出下一個問題。

I have a question regarding your operating expenses in the third quarter, which were quite a bit above expectations and actually grew faster than revenues. I think hedging explains part of this, but were there any other temporary factors that impacted third quarter negatively? And then maybe sort of a comment on the sort of cost base going into Q4, will that sort of still come up on an underlying basis? Or is it just about seasonality?

我對您第三季度的運營費用有疑問，這遠高於預期，實際上增長速度快於收入。我認為對沖可以部分解釋這一點，但是否還有其他臨時因素對第三季度產生負面影響？然後可能是對進入第四季度的成本基礎的評論，這種情況還會在基礎上出現嗎？還是只是季節性問題？

Yes. Thank you, Sami. And just like rightly you pointed out as well, of course, FX had a quite big impact on our OpEx negatively impacting year-on-year comparison. Another item that affected our OpEx is also the fact that we have annual salary rounds that started in 1st of July, so impacting quarter 3 as well. And last year, actually, we started that in 1st of October, so that's where you have -- if you compare quarter 3 this year and last year, you have that difference there as well. Otherwise, investments in -- continuation investments in R&D,to secure our technology leadership going forward as well was a big part of the increase as well.

是的。謝謝你，薩米。就像您正確指出的那樣，當然，外匯對我們的運營支出產生了相當大的影響，對同比比較產生了負面影響。影響我們運營支出的另一個因素是，我們從 7 月 1 日開始進行年薪輪次，因此也影響了第三季度。實際上，去年，我們從 10 月 1 日開始，所以這就是你所擁有的 - 如果你比較今年和去年的第三季度，你也會有這種差異。否則，對研發的持續投資，以確保我們在未來的技術領先地位也是增長的重要組成部分。

Just Sami, to be very clear on what Marco was saying, since you were referring to the OpEx growth percentage compared to last year and you were comparing understandably that to top line, so the reason why it is higher is, as Marco said, that we -- in a way, we have double salary increases now compared to last year because the timing of the previous salary reviews was different this year. So that is, in a way, an exceptional item in the year-over-year comparison in Q3.

只是薩米，要非常清楚 Marco 所說的，因為您指的是與去年相比的 OpEx 增長百分比，並且您將其與頂線進行比較是可以理解的，所以正如 Marco 所說，它更高的原因是我們 - 在某種程度上，我們現在的工資比去年增加了一倍，因為今年之前的工資審查時間不同。因此，在某種程度上，這是第三季度同比比較中的一個特殊項目。

Did you have a follow-up, Sami? .

你有後續行動嗎，薩米？ .

Down in Q4. .

第四季度下跌。 .

I didn't catch that, Sami. .

我沒聽懂，薩米。 .

Yes, I was just sort of stating that the growth rate should then come down in Q4.

是的，我只是說增長率應該在第四季度下降。

For this part, yes, in Q4, there is not any more double effect compared to last year. It's only normal annual salary inflation.

對於這部分，是的，在第四季度，與去年相比，沒有更多的雙重影響。這只是正常的年薪膨脹。

Thanks, Sami. We'll take our next question from Simon Leopold from Raymond James.

謝謝，薩米。我們將向雷蒙德詹姆斯的西蒙利奧波德提出下一個問題。

First, I just want to see if you could give us some sense or quantification of how to think about the contributions you expect from your wins in India and to any extent that you could see pull-through beyond the mobility portion, which would be obvious around a 5G win for your Network Infrastructure business as well. And then I've got a quick follow-up, if I might.

首先，我只是想看看您是否可以給我們一些感覺或量化如何思考您期望從您在印度的勝利中獲得的貢獻，以及在任何程度上您可以看到超越流動性部分的拉動，這將是顯而易見的也為您的網絡基礎設施業務贏得 5G 勝利。然後我有一個快速跟進，如果可以的話。

Yes, the -- I mean, we are not at this time giving more detailed guidance on as to how big the India volumes will be. Of course, they will be meaningful. We have won 45% of the 5G radio network for Bharti Airtel and then, of course, the fact that we now have a deal with Reliance Jio as well is really significant because that is a customer where we were not in radio network business in 4G at all, our market share there was 0%. Now we have not published what our market share will be in their 5G network. We will see when that could be disclosed, but it is a meaningful market share. It's not a small piece. It is a meaningful market share. So this represents a significant volume potential for us.

是的，我的意思是，我們目前沒有就印度的交易量提供更詳細的指導。當然，它們將是有意義的。我們已經為 Bharti Airtel 贏得了 45% 的 5G 無線電網絡，當然，我們現在也與 Reliance Jio 達成交易這一事實非常重要，因為那是我們沒有從事 4G 無線電網絡業務的客戶根本上，我們的市場份額是 0%。現在我們還沒有公佈我們在他們的 5G 網絡中的市場份額。我們將看到何時可以披露，但這是一個有意義的市場份額。這不是一小塊。這是一個有意義的市場份額。因此，這對我們來說代表著巨大的銷量潛力。

And you are absolutely right that getting in this big way into 2 significant radio networks has potential then pull-through, so whatever you want to call them, into Network Infrastructure. There is very interesting Optical Network opportunities, for example, as a consequence of this these deals. This applies to Network Infrastructure in general in India.

而且您絕對正確，以這種方式進入兩個重要的無線電網絡有潛力然後通過，所以無論您想如何稱呼它們，進入網絡基礎設施。例如，這些交易帶來了非常有趣的光網絡機會。這適用於印度的一般網絡基礎設施。

Thanks, Simon. Did you have a follow-up? .

謝謝，西蒙。你有跟進嗎？ .

Yes, please. So you've been clear in quantifying the constant currency or the impact of foreign exchange rate changes on revenue. Could you help us understand year-to-date how foreign exchange rate changes have affected gross margin and OpEx? Are those things you could quantify?

是的，請。所以你在量化固定貨幣或外匯匯率變化對收入的影響方面已經很清楚了。您能否幫助我們了解年初至今的外匯匯率變化如何影響毛利率和運營支出？你可以量化這些東西嗎？

Yes. Thank you for the question. What we show in our report is only with the extra currencies and not the comparison with constant currencies. What we do is that we have a net hedging methodology, which means that we basically look at the net inflow and outflow currency, and we hedge that net inflow. And this is the reason why we also report the hedging impact in only one row in other operating income and expenses.

是的。感謝你的提問。我們在報告中顯示的只是額外貨幣，而不是與固定貨幣的比較。我們所做的是我們有一個淨對沖方法，這意味著我們基本上看的是淨流入和流出貨幣，我們對沖淨流入。這也是我們在其他營業收入和支出中僅在一行中報告對沖影響的原因。

Thanks, Simon. We'll take our next question from Rob Sanders from Deutsche Bank.

謝謝，西蒙。我們將向德意志銀行的 Rob Sanders 提出下一個問題。

I just had a question about 5G stand-alone deployment. There doesn't seem to be any momentum at all in the West behind 5G stand-alone. Most operators seem to be sticking on NSA. And Ericsson flagged that as a headwind, the 5G core momentum just being slow. I was just wondering how exposed you are to this trend. And then given that you've signed a lot of contracts but there's not so many live networks, do you tend to sign a lot of the value upfront in a contract? Or is a lot of the value kind of contingent on the degree to which these networks to deploy?

我剛剛有一個關於 5G 單機部署的問題。在 5G 單機之後，西方似乎根本沒有任何動力。大多數運營商似乎都堅持使用 NSA。愛立信將其標記為逆風，5G 核心發展勢頭緩慢。我只是想知道你對這種趨勢的暴露程度。然後考慮到你已經簽署了很多合同，但沒有那麼多實時網絡，你是否傾向於在合同中預先簽署很多價值？還是很多價值取決於這些網絡的部署程度？

Thank you. This is a very good question, and you are on the right track on this one because, clearly, I mean, this is one of the reasons why the Cloud and Network Services, which, of course, includes the Core Network, top line development is a bit weak. Actually, we had and have a strong position in 3G Core Networks in different parts of the world. And what is happening right now is that, that market is actually going down faster than the 5G stand-alone core market is growing.

謝謝你。這是一個很好的問題，你在這個問題上是正確的，因為，很明顯，我的意思是，這就是為什麼雲和網絡服務，當然，包括核心網絡，頂線開發的原因之一有點弱。實際上，我們在世界不同地區的 3G 核心網絡中擁有並擁有強大的地位。而現在正在發生的是，這個市場實際上下降的速度比 5G 獨立核心市場的增長速度要快。

That market will come, I mean, there's no doubt about that, but that is, in a way, a bit late cyclical compared to the radio development because that we have -- I mean, we are good in terms of making deals, but the revenue coming through requires that there is traffic, there is load on the networks, and that will come later. So in general, of course, I mean, your observation as to the speed with which 5G stand-alone is spreading, it is quite slow at the moment. But it will speed up.

那個市場將會到來，我的意思是，毫無疑問，但這在某種程度上，與無線電發展相比，週期性有點晚，因為我們有——我的意思是，我們在交易方面做得很好，但是收入需要有流量，網絡有負載，這將在以後出現。所以總的來說，當然，我的意思是，你對 5G 單機的傳播速度的觀察，目前是相當緩慢的。但它會加速。

And I mean we have so many discussions with operators who realize that in order to then get the full benefits out of 5G, including all the new monetization cases and to do really compelling slicing for enterprise customers and so on and so on, you will need stand-alone. 5G operators understand this. But it is just in many cases an enormous amount of complexity that they need to go through in order to be able to truly rely on stand-alone 5G. It's not a simple thing for them, but I'm confident that they will get there, and that's definitely their plan.

我的意思是，我們與運營商進行了很多討論，他們意識到，為了從 5G 中獲得全部好處，包括所有新的貨幣化案例，並為企業客戶進行真正引人注目的切片等等，你需要獨立的。 5G 運營商明白這一點。但在許多情況下，他們需要經歷巨大的複雜性才能真正依賴獨立的 5G。這對他們來說不是一件簡單的事情，但我相信他們會到達那裡，這絕對是他們的計劃。

Thanks, Rob. We'll take our next question from Artem Beletski from SEB. .

謝謝，羅伯。我們將向 SEB 的 Artem Beletski 提出下一個問題。 .

Actually, I have one related to supply chain situation and especially Mobile Networks that delivered quite healthy growth in the quarter. Do we see that there is still some catch-up to be done relating to supply chain situation? Or has basically situation normalized what comes to this particular business area?

實際上，我有一個與供應鏈情況有關的問題，尤其是移動網絡，它在本季度實現了相當健康的增長。我們是否看到在供應鏈情況方面還有一些工作要做？或者這個特定業務領域的情況已經基本正常化了？

Yes, Artem, there is still more catch-up to be done. It is normalizing, but it is not yet fully back to normal. And we should assume that it will not be before the first half of 2023 before we should assume that we are more or less back to a normal situation.

是的，Artem，還有更多的工作要做。它正在正常化，但尚未完全恢復正常。我們應該假設不會在 2023 年上半年之前，我們應該假設我們或多或少地恢復了正常情況。

Thanks, Artem. Did you have a follow-up?

謝謝，阿爾特姆。你有跟進嗎？

Yes, indeed, a quick one relating to IPR. So basically, ongoing dispute resolved, so will you basically reach target run rate range of EUR 1.4 billion to EUR 1.5 billion? Or does it require some agreement as well?

是的，確實是與知識產權相關的快速解決方案。所以基本上，正在進行的爭議解決了，那麼你會基本達到 14 億歐元到 15 億歐元的目標運行率範圍嗎？或者它也需要一些協議？

Yes, thank you. We assume that when we have signed these deals that are open now, we will return to that EUR 1.4 billion to EUR 1.5 billion top line levels. .

是的，謝謝。我們假設當我們簽署這些現在開放的交易時，我們將回到 14 億歐元至 15 億歐元的最高水平。 .

Thanks, Artem. We'll take our next question from Janardan Menon from Jefferies.

謝謝，阿爾特姆。我們將向 Jefferies 的 Janardan Menon 提出下一個問題。

I just wanted to focus a little bit on the Network Infrastructure business particularly as it goes into 2023. My point is, I mean, given that there is some uncertainty on regional mix, et cetera, on the Mobile Networks side of things, if your overall margin has to go up, then presumably, it will also require some kind of positive momentum in the other divisions, especially on Network Infrastructure. So when we look at it, there is a slowing-down effect that seems to be coming through on the Fixed Network side, where your growth has slowed to 7% from higher levels previously.

我只是想稍微關註一下網絡基礎設施業務，尤其是進入 2023 年。我的意思是，鑑於移動網絡方面的區域組合等存在一些不確定性，如果你整體利潤率必須上升，那麼大概也需要其他部門的某種積極勢頭，尤其是在網絡基礎設施方面。因此，當我們看到它時，固定網絡方面似乎正在出現放緩效應，您的增長已從之前的較高水平放緩至 7%。

How do you see that continuing? Is that something which could further decelerate because of the high base and the reduction in fixed wireless access that you pulled out in your release? And when you look at IP Networks, which I would assume is the highest-margin part of that division, does the new webscale win there give you significant upside there? And will that be a positive margin driver into 2023? If you could just give us a bit of overall flavor on how you see the various parts of that business progressing into next year, that would be great.

您如何看待這種情況？由於高基數和您在發布中退出的固定無線訪問減少，這是否會進一步減速？當您查看 IP 網絡時，我認為這是該部門中利潤率最高的部分，新的 webscale 獲勝是否會給您帶來顯著的上升空間？到 2023 年，這會是一個積極的利潤率驅動因素嗎？如果你能給我們一些關於你如何看待明年該業務的各個部分進展的整體情況，那就太好了。

Okay. Thanks. I will try to answer your question without giving detailed guidance for next year because, again, we will come back to that one when we publish Q4. You are absolutely right that some of the comparisons are getting tougher especially in Fixed Networks, which obviously will limit some of the growth opportunities. But we still do believe that there will be growth opportunities actually in all of the businesses that we have in Network Infrastructure. We have to remember that in relative terms, in Fixed, in IP Networks, in Optical Networks, in all of this, we are improving our relative competitiveness and technology position.

好的。謝謝。我將嘗試在不提供明年詳細指導的情況下回答您的問題，因為當我們發布第四季度時，我們將再次回到那個問題。你說得對，一些比較變得越來越嚴格，尤其是在固定網絡中，這顯然會限制一些增長機會。但我們仍然相信，我們在網絡基礎設施方面的所有業務實際上都會有增長機會。我們必須記住，相對而言，在固定網絡、IP 網絡、光網絡中，在所有這些方面，我們都在提高我們的相對競爭力和技術地位。

In IP Networks, we are now ramping up in the second half of the year the FP5 platform. FP4 solutions already provide a compelling solution, and they actually still very well. And now we are adding FP5 that further increases our competitiveness. So our target -- regardless of how the market develops, our target is to take market share in that business going forward.

在 IP 網絡中，我們現在在下半年推出 FP5 平台。 FP4 解決方案已經提供了令人信服的解決方案，而且它們實際上仍然非常好。現在我們正在添加 FP5，以進一步提高我們的競爭力。所以我們的目標——無論市場如何發展，我們的目標是在該業務中佔據市場份額。

In Optical Networks, as I mentioned earlier, we have had some component supply chain challenges which we believe that will also be sorted out. We have diversified the component-based excellent feedback from customers on the new PSC 5 generation of products. And there is more to come in the pipeline. So also in this business, there are good possibilities to take market share next year.

正如我之前提到的，在光網絡中，我們遇到了一些組件供應鏈挑戰，我們相信這些挑戰也將得到解決。我們將客戶對新 PSC 5 代產品的基於組件的優秀反饋進行了多樣化。還有更多即將到來的。因此，在這項業務中，明年也很有可能佔據市場份額。

And then on Fixed, you may have seen that we just launched a new platform for fixed broadband access passive optical networks that is actually future-proof. If customers now start making investments, that platform will be upgradable in the future even to 50 gigabit or even 100 gigabit on in the future. So that is a future proof -- highly future-proof platform.

然後在 Fixed 上，您可能已經看到我們剛剛推出了一個新的固定寬帶接入無源光網絡平台，它實際上是面向未來的。如果客戶現在開始投資，該平台將來可以升級到 50 吉比特甚至 100 吉比特。所以這是一個面向未來的平台——高度面向未來的平台。

And at the same time, we are seeing that not only in Mobile Networks but increasingly in Fixed also the trustworthiness of the supplier and all aspects related to it is going higher and higher in customers decision-making criteria. So overall, I'm optimistic both when it comes to market development and our relative competitiveness in Network Infrastructure actually in all segments. You have seen -- you will have seen the progress we have made this year, and actually, it started already last year. We are not going to be immune to the macroeconomic cycles or anything like that. But whatever the market will be, we believe that we will be able to continue to improve our relative position in the market next year.

同時，我們看到，不僅在移動網絡中，而且在固定網絡中，供應商的可信度以及與之相關的所有方面在客戶決策標準中都越來越高。總的來說，我對市場發展和我們在網絡基礎設施方面的相對競爭力實際上在所有領域都持樂觀態度。你已經看到了——你會看到我們今年取得的進展，實際上，它從去年就開始了。我們不會對宏觀經濟周期或類似情況免疫。但無論市場如何，我們相信明年我們將能夠繼續提高我們在市場中的相對地位。

And then finally, you asked about webscalers. These are slow processes. We signed a deal with Microsoft for Tier 2 switching earlier in the year. Now we, in this quarter, signed a deal with another webscaler, name cannot be disclosed at this stage. There is more potential. The nature of these customers is that it takes a long time to get in. But once you are in, you are in, and then there is actually a lot of revenue upside. But we have to be realistic that this is not something that is a question of 1 or 2 quarters here. You need to be -- you need a little bit patience.

最後，您詢問了網絡縮放器。這些都是緩慢的過程。今年早些時候，我們與 Microsoft 簽署了第 2 層轉換協議。現在，我們在本季度與另一家 webscaler 簽訂了協議，現階段無法透露名稱。還有更多的潛力。這些客戶的本質是需要很長時間才能進入。但是一旦你進入，你就進入了，然後實際上有很大的收入上升空間。但我們必須現實一點，這不是 1 或 2 個季度的問題。你需要——你需要一點耐心。

Thanks, Janardan. We'll take our next question from Sandeep Deshpande from JPMorgan. .

謝謝，賈納丹。我們將向摩根大通的 Sandeep Deshpande 提出下一個問題。 .

My question is a more longer-term question. When we looked at Nokia's margin in Mobile Networks, you see today 9.6%, 9.7% margin in the first 3 quarters of the year. You're saying that in the fourth quarter, there will be some mix impact. Your margin is still substantially below your peer margin in Mobile Networks. Are you now saying that your margin will not go towards your peer network margin? Or is this just a small short-term impact that you're talking about? Because this mix in the Mobile Network business will change over the next few years as it has always changed in the Mobile Network business as the shift in the end market sector.

我的問題是一個更長期的問題。當我們查看諾基亞在移動網絡的利潤率時，您會看到今天的 9.6%，今年前 3 個季度的利潤率為 9.7%。你是說第四季度會有一些混合影響。您的保證金仍然大大低於您在移動網絡中的同行保證金。您現在是說您的保證金不會用於您的對等網絡保證金嗎？或者這只是你所說的一個小的短期影響？因為移動網絡業務的這種組合將在未來幾年內發生變化，因為它在移動網絡業務中總是隨著終端市場部門的轉變而發生變化。

Well, first of all, as you have seen, we have in a pretty fundamental way strengthened our competitiveness in this business in the past couple of years. And as we have said many times, the main reason why we have lower margins in this business than our key competitor is clearly the top line and the regional mix in our respective portfolios and the fact that we have had, because of some earlier customer decisions, a lower market share especially in the North American market. With similar volume and similar geographical mix, I do not see any reason why we would not be able to have similar margins.

嗯，首先，正如你所看到的，在過去的幾年裡，我們從根本上增強了我們在這項業務中的競爭力。正如我們多次說過的那樣，我們在這項業務中的利潤率低於我們的主要競爭對手的主要原因顯然是我們各自投資組合中的收入和區域組合，以及我們已經擁有的事實，因為一些早期的客戶決定，市場份額較低，尤其是在北美市場。以相似的數量和相似的地域組合，我看不出我們不能有相似利潤的任何理由。

Now of course, I mean you are absolutely right that there will be in the world 5G market, there will be a certain shift towards more emerging markets that will affect us and our competitors in a similar way. So from that point of view, it should be a more level playing field going forward. We have said that our ambition in this business is double-digit margin -- double-digit margins going forward. And that supports then Nokia's overall 14% operating or comparable operating margin goal. So let's now see first that when we get to double digits and then, then is the time to talk about potential next steps after that.

當然，我的意思是你絕對正確，世界 5G 市場將會有一定程度的轉向更多新興市場，這將以類似的方式影響我們和我們的競爭對手。所以從這個角度來看，它應該是一個更公平的競爭環境。我們已經說過，我們在這項業務中的雄心是兩位數的利潤率——未來兩位數的利潤率。這支持了諾基亞 14% 的總體運營利潤率或可比運營利潤率目標。因此，現在讓我們首先看看當我們達到兩位數時，然後是時候討論之後的潛在下一步了。

Did you have a follow-up, Sandeep? .

你有後續嗎，桑迪普？ .

Yes, just a quick follow-up. Are you seeing a significant shift in the mix? Is the U.S. substantially weakening next year versus the growth in the rest of the market?

是的，只是快速跟進。您是否看到組合發生了重大變化？與其他市場的增長相比，明年美國是否會大幅走弱？

No, we need to still see that where the U.S. customers' CapEx plans. And I mean as you have seen, they have made some indications, there are still a lot of things that they need to confirm. This has been a very strong year in North America, so it is prudent to expect some normalization. And at the same time, as mentioned, India 5G basically goes from 0 to very high levels in a short period of time. Operators 5G ramp-up plans are really, really aggressive, and that will affect a lot volumes in India in '23 and, consequently, also the mix.

不，我們仍然需要看到美國客戶的資本支出計劃。我的意思是，正如你所看到的，他們已經做出了一些跡象，還有很多事情需要他們確認。今年對北美來說是非常強勁的一年，因此謹慎地期待一些正常化。同時，如前所述，印度 5G 基本上在短時間內從 0 到非常高的水平。運營商的 5G 升級計劃非常非常激進，這將影響 23 年印度的大量交易量，因此也會影響組合。

Thanks, Sandeep. We'll take our next question from Adithya Metuku from Credit Suisse. .

謝謝，桑迪普。我們將向瑞士信貸的 Adithya Metuku 提出下一個問題。 .

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes, go ahead.

好，去吧。

Two, please. Firstly, there's been some talk from European operators about pushing out investments to protect our free cash flow in light of higher energy costs. The Head of Vodafone recently mentioned this. So I just wondered, are you seeing any reductions in CapEx budgets or any discussions that corroborates this view with wireless operators in Europe? And are you seeing anything similar outside Europe? And then my second question is on any measures you have in place to pass on any inflationary cost increases as you go into 2023.

兩個，請。首先，鑑於能源成本較高，歐洲運營商已經討論了推出投資以保護我們的自由現金流。沃達丰的負責人最近提到了這一點。所以我只是想知道，您是否看到任何資本支出預算的減少或任何與歐洲無線運營商證實這一觀點的討論？你在歐洲以外看到過類似的事情嗎？然後我的第二個問題是，隨著您進入 2023 年，您是否採取了任何措施來轉嫁任何通脹成本增加。

Well, inflationary cost increases, of course, we are passing on continuously, and you have seen in when you look at the Mobile Networks and NI margins that we have been fairly successful in that. Of course, as we have said, it's always easier -- much easier to do that in new contracts than in all the existing contracts. And depending on the business, typical contract length is sometimes 2 years in Mobile Networks, typically it's 3 years, so the effect comes gradually. But what we are seeing in our margins is obviously a combination of our pricing power and ability to pass on the inflation to customer prices. But then also the fundamental product cost, I mean, like in Mobile Networks, we have been pretty successful in pushing down the technology -- basic technology cost. And now you see the results in the expanding margin in Mobile Networks.

好吧，通貨膨脹成本增加，當然，我們在不斷地傳遞，當您查看移動網絡和 NI 利潤率時，您已經看到我們在這方面相當成功。當然，正如我們所說，在新合同中做到這一點總是比在所有現有合同中容易得多。並且根據業務的不同，移動網絡的典型合同期限有時為 2 年，通常為 3 年，因此效果逐漸顯現。但我們在利潤率中看到的顯然是我們的定價能力和將通貨膨脹轉嫁給客戶價格的能力的結合。但還有基本產品成本，我的意思是，就像在移動網絡中一樣，我們在降低技術方面非常成功——基本技術成本。現在您可以看到移動網絡利潤率不斷擴大的結果。

Then when it comes to energy, of course, we all know that the energy situation especially in Europe is very challenging. Electricity prices are up. Gas prices are up. You can take that in 2 ways. I mean in some cases, operators may speed up their investments because, through a new generation of products, they can lower their electricity consumption. That is one way to look at it. Then the other way is, of course, that you want to cut your CapEx because you need to be able to spend more on electricity, and I believe that we will see both types of cases. There has been some announcements, not that many, but there has been some announcements by operators that they would be looking into their CapEx next year because of this. But again, we have taken this into account when we estimate that our total market still continues to increase globally next year. And again, this is something that operators, each operator needs to speak for themselves. It is not for us to comment on their behalf what their actual plans then will be.

然後談到能源，當然，我們都知道，尤其是歐洲的能源形勢非常具有挑戰性。電價上漲。天然氣價格上漲。你可以採取兩種方式。我的意思是，在某些情況下，運營商可能會加快投資，因為通過新一代產品，他們可以降低電力消耗。這是看待它的一種方式。然後另一種方式當然是你想削減你的資本支出，因為你需要能夠在電力上花費更多，我相信我們會看到這兩種情況。已經發布了一些公告，但不是很多，但運營商已經發布了一些公告，稱他們將因此研究他們明年的資本支出。但是，當我們估計明年全球市場總量仍將繼續增長時，我們再次考慮到了這一點。再說一次，這是運營商的事情，每個運營商都需要為自己說話。我們不能代表他們評論他們的實際計劃。

Thanks, Adi. We'll take our next question from Richard Kramer from Arete.

謝謝，阿迪。我們將向 Arete 的 Richard Kramer 提出下一個問題。

It's interesting to see some growth resume in China, but can you describe what your approach will be next year to the market? Is there scope at all to materially improve your market share position especially in Mobile? And are you going to face any restrictions based on the U.S. chip restrictions that are currently coming into place? .

看到中國的一些增長恢復很有趣，但您能描述一下您明年將如何進入市場嗎？是否有空間顯著提高您的市場份額地位，尤其是在移動領域？您是否會面臨基於當前實施的美國芯片限制的任何限制？ .

Yes. We don't believe that the U.S. restrictions would have any direct effects on us. But this is, of course, something that needs to be followed on a continuous basis because the situation restrictions and especially then their enforcement and implementation is a matter that is work in progress, and they are still going to discuss with many other countries in detail that what it will mean. But it's very clear that the trade restrictions are getting tougher and tougher, and they are adding new things into it. It's not only anymore about semiconductors. It's also about design tools, and it's about software, et cetera. So that could then, of course, have potentially quite a big indirect effect on the market dynamics because it may change the competitive -- relative competitive positions of different players in the market depending on who has and who has not access to the latest tools and the latest chipset generations.

是的。我們認為美國的限制不會對我們產生任何直接影響。但這當然是需要持續跟進的事情，因為情況限制，特別是其執行和實施是一項正在進行的工作，他們仍將與許多其他國家進行詳細討論這將意味著什麼。但很明顯，貿易限制越來越嚴格，而且他們正在增加新的東西。它不再只是關於半導體。它還與設計工具有關，與軟件有關，等等。因此，當然，這可能會對市場動態產生相當大的間接影響，因為它可能會改變市場中不同參與者的競爭——相對競爭地位，具體取決於誰擁有和誰不能使用最新的工具和最新一代的芯片組。

Then when it comes to our market position in China, I am a bit skeptical as to a possibility that there would be any big positive news coming. I mean we continue to fight on the market. It is, of course, a very large market. It will continue to be so. But the reality is that market shares that are available for non-Chinese players in China, they have been coming down for some years already. And it's a little bit hard to see in today's geopolitical environment that -- how that could change in a big way. China -- Greater China region, which, of course, includes Taiwan, in our case, I think it's around 6% or something like that of our total. So it is much lower than it was still some years ago, and again, it's hard to see how that could change.

然後談到我們在中國的市場地位，我有點懷疑是否會出現任何重大的利好消息。我的意思是我們繼續在市場上競爭。當然，這是一個非常大的市場。它將繼續如此。但現實情況是，非中國企業在中國的市場份額已經下降了幾年。在今天的地緣政治環境中，有點難以看出——這會如何發生重大變化。中國——大中華地區，當然，包括台灣，在我們的案例中，我認為它大約占我們總數的 6% 左右。所以它比幾年前要低得多，而且很難看出這會如何改變。

Thanks, Richard. We'll take our next question from Fredrik Lithell from Handelsbanken. .

謝謝，理查德。我們將向 Handelsbanken 的 Fredrik Lithell 提出下一個問題。 .

Many questions have been answered, so I just want to have a little bit on a detailed level within Technologies. You write in the text you have 2 license agreements that ended in '21 that now are in litigation/renewals. So does that mean that one is in litigation, the one we know with Oppo? And the other one is still negotiated around even though you don't have a contract since '21, just to maybe clarify that.

很多問題都已經得到解答，所以我只想在技術方面進行一些詳細介紹。您在文本中寫道，您有 2 份於 21 年結束的許可協議，現在處於訴訟/續訂中。那麼這是否意味著一個人正在訴訟中，我們知道的與 Oppo 的人？即使您自 21 年以來就沒有合同，另一個仍在談判中，只是為了澄清這一點。

Yes, thank you. And we are in both litigation with both but also renegotiations with both. So litigation doesn't mean that we end the negotiations. That will continue anyway. So that's the situation. And both of these ended during 2021, and that's why when we didn't see that there was a good enough traction on the negotiation phase, that's why we had to enter into a litigation in different countries. And litigation is always the final step in when we see that negotiations do not bear fruit. So we try to avoid those as much as possible. But in these 2 cases, we came to conclusion that we believe that's the best way to continue.

是的，謝謝。我們正在與兩者進行訴訟，但也與兩者進行重新談判。所以訴訟並不意味著我們結束談判。無論如何，這將繼續。所以情況就是這樣。這兩件事都在 2021 年結束，這就是為什麼當我們沒有看到談判階段有足夠好的牽引力時，這就是為什麼我們不得不在不同國家進行訴訟的原因。當我們看到談判沒有結果時，訴訟總是最後一步。所以我們盡量避免這些。但在這兩種情況下，我們得出的結論是，我們認為這是繼續下去的最佳方式。

Thanks, Fredrik. And we'll take our last question this morning from Joseph Zhou from Redburn.

謝謝，弗雷德里克。今天上午，我們將從 Redburn 的 Joseph Zhou 那裡回答我們的最後一個問題。

I have 2, and I will go one at a time. So firstly, just returning to the Reliance Jio contract win in India, I understand you do not want to disclose the market share. But as you alluded to earlier, you are a major provider, so can we assume that the contract is more or less evenly split between the players at least? And also, where are we with margin in India versus group? And also given that Reliance is going for a stand-alone deployment, so can you maybe tell us a bit about the margin difference potentially between a stand-alone deployment compared to an SA deployment for 5G, please? That's my first question.

我有2個，我會一次去一個。所以首先，回到 Reliance Jio 在印度贏得合同，我知道你不想透露市場份額。但正如你之前提到的，你是主要供應商，所以我們可以假設合同至少在球員之間或多或少是平均分配的嗎？而且，我們在印度與集團的差距在哪裡？並且還考慮到 Reliance 將進行獨立部署，那麼您能否告訴我們一些關於 5G 獨立部署與 SA 部署之間的潛在利潤差異，好嗎？這是我的第一個問題。

Yes. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to give you more details on the market share and especially not comment anything on our competitors' behalf. The only thing I am able to say that it is a meaningful market share. And for us, it is a significant new entry since we did not have radio network with this customer in 4G at all. Then it is, of course, a well-known fact that the India market is highly competitive, and that will put pressure on gross margin. But as I said earlier, then on the other hand, the scale effects will be so big that we believe that entering this business will actually support our path towards our group operating margin targets.

是的。不幸的是，我無法向您提供有關市場份額的更多詳細信息，尤其不能代表我們的競爭對手發表任何評論。我唯一能說的是，這是一個有意義的市場份額。對我們來說，這是一個重要的新條目，因為我們在 4G 中根本沒有與該客戶建立無線電網絡。當然，眾所周知的事實是印度市場競爭激烈，這將對毛利率造成壓力。但正如我之前所說，另一方面，規模效應將如此之大，以至於我們相信進入該業務實際上將支持我們實現集團經營利潤率目標的道路。

And your follow-up, Joseph?

你的後續行動，約瑟夫？

And on standalone in general, anything on that?

一般來說，在獨立上，有什麼嗎？

No. Well, I mean this is now a radio network deal, and that is not a relevant consideration in a deal like that. So that is -- that question is not driving any margin development as such.

不。好吧，我的意思是這現在是一項無線電網絡交易，在這樣的交易中，這不是相關的考慮因素。這就是——這個問題本身並沒有推動任何利潤率的發展。

Did you have a quick follow-up, Joseph?

約瑟夫，你有快速跟進嗎？

Yes, David, just a quick follow-up on FX. So I calculated for the quarter the FX had a dilution impact of 120 bps on your operating margin and which is a bit higher than I was expecting given your guidance for the USD movements versus the euro, (inaudible) even with hedging, it should be slightly dilutive. About 120 bps sounds a lot. Can you maybe indicate does the comparative become better in that quarter? And -- or should we expect a similar kind of a dilution impact from FX?

是的，大衛，只是對 FX 的快速跟進。因此，我計算了本季度外匯對您的營業利潤率的稀釋影響為 120 個基點，這比我預期的要高一些，因為您對美元兌歐元走勢的指導（聽不清）即使有對沖，也應該是略微稀釋。大約 120 bps 聽起來很多。您能否指出該季度的比較情況是否變得更好？而且——或者我們應該期待外匯產生類似的稀釋影響嗎？

Just I'll maybe take that one offline with you. We can run through the numbers. But obviously, there's nothing's changed in our underlying currency exposures, as we outlined back in our Q2 presentation when we went into it in detail. But I'll -- we'll follow up with you separately on the numbers on that.

只是我可能會和你一起離線。我們可以遍歷數字。但顯然，我們的基礎貨幣敞口沒有任何變化，正如我們在第二季度的介紹中詳細介紹的那樣。但我會 - 我們會單獨跟進你的數字。

But with that, ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. I would like to remind you that during the call today, we have made a number of forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may therefore differ materially from the results currently expected. Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We have identified such risks in the risk factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

但是，女士們，先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。我想提醒您，在今天的電話會議中，我們做出了一些涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述。因此，實際結果可能與目前預期的結果大相徑庭。可能導致這種差異的因素既可以是外部因素，也可以是內部操作因素。我們已在我們的 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分確定了此類風險，該表格可在我們的投資者關係網站上找到。

Thank you all for joining us today.

感謝大家今天加入我們。

Thank you. That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating.

謝謝你。這確實結束了我們今天的會議。感謝您的參與。