Hesai Group (HSAI) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by for Hesai Group's First Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's conference call is being recorded.

女士們、先生們，大家好。感謝您出席禾賽集團2024年第一季業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the call over to our first speaker today, Yuanting Shi, the company's Investor Relations Director. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話轉給我們今天的第一位發言人，公司投資者關係總監施元廷。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining Hesai Group's First Quarter 2021 Earnings Conference Call. Our earnings release is now available on our IR website at investor.hesaitech.com, as well as via Newswire Services.

謝謝你，接線生。大家好，感謝您參加禾賽集團2021年第一季業績電話會議。我們的收益報告現已發佈在我們的投資者關係網站 Investor.hesaitech.com 以及 Newswire Services 上。

Today, you will hear from our CEO, Dr. David Li, who will provide an overview of our recent updates and address our financial results before we open the call for questions.

今天，您將聽到我們的執行長 David Li 博士的發言，他將概述我們最近的更新，並在我們開始提問之前討論我們的財務表現。

Before we continue, I refer you to our safe harbor statement in our earnings press release, which applies to this call, as we will make forward-looking statements. Please also note that the company will discuss non-GAAP measures today, which are more thoroughly explained and reconciled to the most comparable measures reported on the GAAP in our earnings release and SEC filings.

在我們繼續之前，我請您參閱我們的收益新聞稿中的安全港聲明，該聲明適用於本次電話會議，因為我們將做出前瞻性聲明。另請注意，該公司今天將討論非 GAAP 衡量標準，這些衡量標準將與我們的收益發布和 SEC 文件中報告的 GAAP 衡量標準進行更徹底的解釋和協調。

With that, I'm pleased to turn over the call to our CEO, Dr. David Li. David, please go ahead.

至此，我很高興將電話轉給我們的執行長李大衛博士。大衛，請繼續。

Thank you, Yuanting, and thank you, everyone, for joining our call today. We demonstrated great financial resilience in the first quarter, navigating typical seasonal factors, as well as slower demand in our robotaxi business compared with the previous year, as guided. Despite the challenges, our dedicated effort yielded first quarter net revenue and total LiDAR shipments exceeding our earlier forecast. Moreover, our effective cost management endeavors and the flywheel strategy, we have implemented brought us closer to achieving profitability in the fourth quarter of this fiscal year.

謝謝遠婷，也謝謝大家今天加入我們的電話會議。我們在第一季展現了巨大的財務彈性，克服了典型的季節性因素，以及我們的機器人計程車業務的需求與前一年相比有所放緩。儘管面臨挑戰，我們的不懈努力使第一季淨收入和光達總出貨量超出了我們先前的預測。此外，我們有效的成本管理努力和我們實施的飛輪策略使我們更接近本財年第四季實現盈利。

As automotive industry landscape continues to evolve, it's essential to understand the development trajectories and strategies that will shape our future progress. Let's start with a brief review of the LiDAR industry in recent years. The past decade has been a pivotal period for the LiDAR industry marked by significant growth. LiDAR applications has expanded from robotaxis to ADAS transitioning from prototype to product and presently to merchandise, where customers now seek a balanced blend of price and performance. Looking closely at 2024, we believe it's likely to be a decisive year for the LiDAR industry's leap to mass market popularity.

隨著汽車產業格局的不斷發展，了解將塑造我們未來進步的發展軌跡和策略至關重要。我們先簡單回顧一下近年來雷射雷達產業的情況。過去十年是光達產業快速發展的關鍵時期。 LiDAR 應用已從機器人計程車擴展到 ADAS，從原型過渡到產品，目前又過渡到商品，客戶現在尋求價格和性能的平衡組合。仔細觀察 2024 年，我們認為這可能是 LiDAR 產業飛躍大眾市場的決定性一年。

According to GGII, a renowned automotive research and consulting firm, the LiDAR adoption rate among EVs priced above RMB 150,000 is projected to surpass 16% this year, [baring] towards 50% in alignment with the famous crossing the (inaudible) innovation adoption model. Given this industry's inflection point, we need a flexible and a competitive product road map to support Hesai's future development.

據知名汽車研究顧問公司高工產研稱，今年 15 萬元以上電動車的雷射雷達採用率預計將超過 16%，接近 50%，與著名的跨越（聽不清楚）創新採用模式保持一致。面對這個產業的轉折點，我們需要一個靈活的、有競爭力的產品路線圖來支撐禾賽未來的發展。

To better explain our dual strategy approaches for ADAS LiDAR development, I'll refer to Moore's Law, which delineates 2 pathways for technological advancements, ultimate performance and ultimate value to cost.

為了更好地解釋我們用於 ADAS LiDAR 開發的雙重策略方法，我將參考摩爾定律，該定律描繪了技術進步、最終性能和最終成本價值的兩條途徑。

First, a quick comment about ultimate performance. The trend towards more advanced ADAS function is clearly gaining traction among OEMs, particularly global players, driving demand for high-performance LiDAR with significantly enhanced specifications to power advanced features for Level 3 autonomous driving. In response, Hesai has leveraged its technical know-how to define the next generation of groundbreaking LiDARs with products such as AT512.

首先，快速評論一下終極性能。更先進的 ADAS 功能的趨勢明顯受到 OEM 廠商（尤其是全球廠商）的關注，推動了對高性能 LiDAR 的需求，其規格顯著增強，可為 3 級自動駕駛的高級功能提供支援。為此，禾賽利用其技術知識，透過 AT512 等產品定義了下一代突破性光達。

This 512 channel ultra high-performance LiDAR sets new industry standards by pushing the boundaries of every core performance metrics for long-range LiDARs boasting a detection range of over 300 meters at 10% reflectivity and image quality with a point rate of 12.3 million points per second. We designed AT512 to provide our OEM partners with the necessary components to craft autonomous driving solutions with the highest level of safety.

這款512 通道超高性能LiDAR 突破了長距離LiDAR 各項核心性能指標的界限，樹立了新的行業標準，在10% 反射率下的檢測範圍超過300 米，圖像質量高，點率高達1230 萬點/點第二。我們設計 AT512 的目的是為 OEM 合作夥伴提供必要的組件，以打造最高安全等級的自動駕駛解決方案。

In terms of ultimate value to cost, LiDAR technologies expansion to mass market is an inevitable trend poised to reshape the landscape. As mainstream consumers increasingly appreciate LiDARs intrinsic value through its integration into autonomous driving systems and its pivotal role in enhancing safety, LiDAR is playing a great role in decision-making for car buyers. On the OEM side, LiDAR has become a necessity, as it enables OEMs to quickly and affordably elevate their autonomous driving features. Current market dynamics support this view.

就最終的成本價值而言，雷射雷達技術擴展到大眾市場是重塑格局的必然趨勢。隨著主流消費者越來越認識到雷射雷達透過整合到自動駕駛系統中的內在價值及其在提高安全性方面的關鍵作用，雷射雷達在購車者的決策中發揮著重要作用。在 OEM 方面，LiDAR 已成為必需品，因為它使 OEM 能夠快速且經濟地提升其自動駕駛功能。當前的市場動態支持了這一觀點。

LiDAR technology was exclusive to premium car models is now being integrated into more affordable vehicles. The growing demand for mass market LiDAR presents a golden opportunities for us reviewing an enormous market with a potential [tens of million] level shipment volume. We've implemented a flywheel strategy to capitalize on these prospects.

光達技術曾是高階車型獨有的技術，現在正被整合到更實惠的車輛中。大眾市場對光達的需求不斷增長，為我們審視一個潛在[千萬]級出貨量的龐大市場提供了千載難逢的機會。我們實施了飛輪策略來利用這些前景。

By leveraging our strong capabilities and vertical integration, our higher value-to-cost product will empower us to crack larger LiDAR market and elevate shipment volume. Economies of scale will further dilute cost per unit, creating a sell-through the [inverse] 1cycle. This flywheel strategy derived from our deep understanding of the industry's competitive landscape has been steadily gathering momentum since the inception of our ADAS business and will be the driving force behind our future triumphs.

透過利用我們強大的能力和垂直整合，我們更高性價比的產品將使我們能夠開拓更大的雷射雷達市場並提高出貨量。規模經濟將進一步稀釋單位成本，從而形成[逆]1週期的銷售。這種源自於我們對產業競爭格局的深刻理解的飛輪策略，自ADAS業務創立以來一直在穩步發展，並將成為我們未來成功的驅動力。

By the end of the first quarter, Hesai has [cumulatively] shipped over 380,000 LiDAR since our establishment. Our leading-edge technology and proven track record create tailwinds that propel our success and amplify the long-term benefit of scale.

截至第一季末，禾賽自成立以來已累計出貨超過38萬台光達。我們領先的技術和良好的業績記錄創造了推動我們成功並放大規模長期效益的順風車。

We are beyond thrilled to unveil recent collaborations with esteemed new customers, including 2 additional top 10 global automotive OEMs by revenue to provide ADAS LiDARs for their upcoming series production programs. We have now secured the design wins with 4 prominent global OEMs, including 3 global OEMs' joint ventures, and most importantly, one global automotive OEM with worldwide shipping program. These partnerships are landmark commercial wins for us, showcasing the trust we have diligently established with esteemed global OEMs renowned for its highest standard in vehicle safety and the performance.

我們非常高興地宣布與尊敬的新客戶最近的合作，其中包括另外 2 家全球收入排名前 10 名的汽車原始設備製造商，為其即將推出的系列生產項目提供 ADAS LiDAR。我們現在已經贏得了 4 家全球知名 OEM 的設計勝利，其中包括 3 家全球 OEM 的合資企業，最重要的是，一家擁有全球運輸計劃的全球汽車 OEM。這些合作關係對我們來說是具有里程碑意義的商業勝利，展示了我們與以其車輛安全和性能最高標準而聞名的全球知名原始設備製造商努力建立的信任。

Notably, some of those customers had prior engagement with our peers, but have now chosen to partner with us for the first time. We are genuinely excited to receive, [they are both] confident in our LiDAR technology, and we couldn't be more thrilled to play an integral role in the next phase of these global OEMs autonomous drive journey.

值得注意的是，其中一些客戶之前曾與我們的同行接觸過，但現在首次選擇與我們合作。我們真的很高興收到，[他們都]對我們的光達技術充滿信心，我們非常高興能夠在這些全球原始設備製造商自動駕駛之旅的下一階段中發揮不可或缺的作用。

Domestically, we forged a partnership with another new customer, GAC, one of China's leading OEM to jointly develop and integrate our next-generation LiDAR product into their forthcoming line of passenger vehicles. These global and domestic partnerships reflect a substantial and steady stream of opportunities ahead. As our market share and delivery volumes continue to climb, our production cost per LiDAR will decrease boasting our competitive edge in terms of value-to-cost and making our value proposition to partners even more attractive.

在國內，我們與另一家新客戶廣汽集團（中國領先的整車廠之一）建立了合作夥伴關係，共同開發我們的下一代光達產品並將其整合到他們即將推出的乘用車系列中。這些全球和國內合作關係反映了未來大量且穩定的機會。隨著我們的市場份額和交付量不斷攀升，我們每台雷射雷達的生產成本將會下降，這將增強我們在性價比方面的競爭優勢，並使我們對合作夥伴的價值主張更具吸引力。

While our flywheel strategy has already produced tangible positive outcomes, they are just the beginning of our journey. Our latest innovation, ATX, a cutting-edge, ultra-compact high-performance long-range ADAS LiDAR [embodied] the next phase. This groundbreaking innovation, where the X symbolizes endless possibilities, where every vehicle is priced competitively among similar products, while offering better performance across key metrics representing a significant leap forward in our commitment to excellence and scalable safety.

雖然我們的飛輪策略已經產生了實際的正面成果，但這只是我們旅程的開始。我們的最新創新產品 ATX，是一種尖端、超緊湊、高性能遠程 ADAS LiDAR，[體現了]下一階段的發展。這項突破性的創新，其中的X 象徵著無限的可能性，每輛車的價格在同類產品中都具有競爭力，同時在關鍵指標上提供更好的性能，代表著我們對卓越和可擴展安全性的承諾的重大飛躍。

The ATX inherits the main capabilities of our best-selling AT128 LiDAR, retaining its market-validated one-dimensional scanning architecture, while featuring a broad array of technological advancement. First, leveraging our state-of-the-art fourth generation technology platform, the ATX demonstrated our [mastery] in seamlessly integrating internally developed core components, boasting a maximum detection range of 300 meters and the world's first 140-degree horizontal FOV in a long-range ADAS LiDAR.

ATX 繼承了我們最暢銷的 AT128 LiDAR 的主要功能，保留了其經過市場驗證的一維掃描架構，同時具有廣泛的技術進步。首先，ATX憑藉我們最先進的第四代技術平台，展示了我們對內部開發的核心部件的無縫集成，擁有300米的最大探測範圍和全球首個140度水平FOV。

The ATX sets a new standard for mass market LiDAR. With its 7x optical zoom capability, the ATX maximum detection range can be extended even further reaching 500 meters with a more concentrated FOV. This versatile feature enables the ATX to flexibly provide either a wide view of complex road conditions such as nearby vehicles and pedestrians or ultra long-range of visibilities depending on the situations need.

ATX 為大眾市場 LiDAR 設立了新標準。憑藉其 7 倍光學變焦功能，ATX 最大偵測範圍可進一步擴展至 500 米，視場更集中。這種多功能功能使 ATX 能夠根據情況需求靈活地提供複雜路況（例如附近車輛和行人）的寬視野或超遠距離視野。

Additionally, the ATX optimized optical and mechanical design makes it 60% smaller and 50% lighter than AT128. It's architecture not only optimizes BOM cost, but also simplifies several manufacturing processes. This makes scale manufacturing significantly more efficient boasting our flywheel strategy.

此外，ATX優化的光學和機械設計​​使其比AT128小60%、輕50%。其架構不僅優化了 BOM 成本，還簡化了多個製造流程。憑藉我們的飛輪策略，這使得規模製造的效率顯著提高。

In addition, the ATX's delegated and compact design coupled with its ultra-low-power consumption of only 8 watts, enables ATX's versatile installation in various locations within the vehicle, whether mounted on a car through behind the windshield or integrated into headlamp, the ATX offers unparalleled flexibility.

此外，ATX 的委派和緊湊設計加上僅8 瓦的超低功耗，使ATX 能夠在車輛內的各個位置進行多功能安裝，無論是透過擋風玻璃後面安裝在汽車上還是整合到頭燈中， ATX提供無與倫比的靈活性。

On a related note, we're proud to announce the strategic collaboration with Marelli, a global leader in automotive lighting to integrate the ATX into Marelli's innovative [headlamp] designs. This ingenious placement provides vehicle with extraordinary environmental protection capabilities significantly improving safety. On top of that, it saves cost without altering vehicle's appearance and aerodynamic performance.

與此相關的是，我們很自豪地宣布與汽車照明領域的全球領導者馬瑞利 (Marelli) 進行策略合作，將 ATX 整合到馬瑞利 (Marelli) 的創新[頭燈] 設計中。這種巧妙的佈置為車輛提供了非凡的環保能力，顯著提高了安全性。最重要的是，它可以在不改變車輛外觀和空氣動力學性能的情況下節省成本。

Last but not least, the ATX is equipped with Hesai's proprietary first of its kind Intelligent Point Cloud Engine, IPE, which integrated 256 waveform processing cores and features a high sampling frequency of 24.6 billion per second. This innovation enables the ATX to intelligently mitigate the impact of rain, emitted gas, dust, et cetera, effectively filtering out 99.9% of the environmental noise. It also ensures reliable recognition and minimizes the false triggers, providing all-weather safety perception for intelligent vehicles. Moreover, the IPE alleviates pressure on the OEMs to develop algorithms with similar functions showcasing our deep understanding of customers' needs and pain points.

最後，ATX配備了禾賽自主研發的首款智慧點雲引擎IPE，該引擎整合了256個波形處理核心，具有每秒246億次的高採樣頻率。這項創新使ATX能夠智慧地減輕雨水、廢氣、灰塵等的影響，有效濾除99.9%的環境噪音。保證識別可靠，最大限度減少誤觸發，為智慧車輛提供全天候安全感知。此外，IPE減輕了OEM廠商開發具有類似功能的演算法的壓力，展現了我們對客戶需求和痛點的深刻理解。

With this cutting-edge features and robust designs, ATX has already received the design wins and collaborative programs from 4 leading global domestic OEMs, including a leading domestic traditional OEM, a top-tier EV manufacturer in China, a leading new EV maker in China and a major global OEMs joint venture. These partnerships reflect industry-wide recognition of the ATX potential to revolutionize intelligent vehicle technology and capitalize widespread adoption of LiDAR across various vehicle types. The ATX is expected to enter production in the first quarter of 2025, further propelling our flywheel strategy.

憑藉先進的功能和穩健的設計，ATX已經獲得了4家全球領先的國內整車廠的設計勝利和合作項目，其中包括國內領先的傳統整車廠、中國頂級電動汽車製造商、中國領先的新電動車製造商和一家主要的全球原始設備製造商合資企業。這些合作夥伴關係反映了業界對 ATX 徹底改變智慧汽車技術並利用 LiDAR 在各種車輛類型中廣泛採用的潛力的認可。 ATX預計於2025年第一季投入生產，進一步推動我們的飛輪策略。

Now let's briefly go through our operating and financial results for the first quarter of 2024. To be mindful of the (inaudible) of our earnings call today, I encourage listeners to refer to our first quarter earnings press release for the details.

現在，讓我們簡要回顧一下 2024 年第一季的營運和財務業績。

We delivered a resilient financial performance for the first quarter with a net revenue of RMB 359.1 million, USD 49.7 million, at the higher end of our forecast in line with our expectations, factoring in typical seasonal effects. Strong growth in domestic ADAS adoption drove quarterly total LiDAR shipments over 59,000 units, a 70% year-over-year increase, offsetting slower demand in our robotaxi business compared to the previous year. Particularly noteworthy is our progress towards achieving profitability by the fourth quarter of this fiscal year, driven by effective cost management and our flywheel approach to cost and scale optimization.

考慮到典型的季節性影響，我們第一季的財務業績表現強勁，淨收入為 3.591 億元人民幣（4,970 萬美元），符合我們預期的上限。國內 ADAS 採用率的強勁增長推動季度 LiDAR 總出貨量超過 59,000 台，同比增長 70%，抵消了我們的機器人出租車業務較上年放緩的需求。特別值得注意的是，在有效的成本管理以及成本和規模優化的飛輪方法的推動下，我們在本財年第四季度實現盈利方面取得了進展。

Now moving to our financial outlook. For the second quarter of 2024, we expect net revenue to be between RMB 440 million, USD 60.9 million and RMB 460 million, USD 63.7 million, representing a year-over-year increase of approximately flat to 4.5%. For the full year of 2024, we anticipate annual revenue to be within the range of RMB 2.5 billion to RMB 2.8 billion, roughly USD 350 million to USD 400 million, as compared to our previous guidance of USD 400 million to USD 450 million, an adjustment around 10%.

現在轉向我們的財務前景。 2024年第二季度，我們預期淨收入將在4.4億元人民幣（6,090萬美元）至4.6億元人民幣（6,370萬美元）之間，年增約持平至4.5%。 2024 年全年，我們預計年收入將在 25 億元至 28 億元之間，約合 3.5 億美元至 4 億美元，而我們之前的指導為 4 億美元至 4.5 億美元，調整10%左右。

In terms of shipments, we expect total LiDAR shipments to reach approximately 90,000 units in the second quarter of 2024 and over 500,000 units for the entire year of 2024. This updated forecast reflects our prudence in light of fluctuation in downstream EV sales during this year. With this adjustment, the contribution from high margin robotaxi business is expected to increase to roughly half of our total revenue in 2024, pushing our blended gross margin guidance towards the higher end of 30% to 35% range.

在出貨量方面，我們預計2024年第二季雷射雷達總出貨量將達到約9萬台，2024年全年將超過50萬台。波動的審慎態度。透過此次調整，預計 2024 年高利潤機器人計程車業務的貢獻將增至我們總收入的一半左右，推動我們的綜合毛利率指引向 30% 至 35% 的高端區間推進。

Meanwhile, we anticipate that the proportion of the revenue derived from the U.S. will be less than 20% of the total revenue in 2024, driven by increasing demand outside the U.S. This outlook is based on the current market condition and reflect the company's preliminary estimate of market and operating conditions and customer demand, which are all subject to change.

同時，我們預計，在美國以外需求增加的推動下，2024年來自美國的收入佔總收入的比例將低於20%。需求都可能改變。

The automotive industry worldwide is undergoing a significant revolution driven by the rapid advancement of autonomous driving solutions. We're thrilled to be recognized, as a [pioneer] and leader in this transformative wave. To date, we secured ADAS design wins with a total of 18 OEMs and Tier 1 suppliers globally across approximately 70 vehicle models with a robust pipeline of [SOP], we eagerly anticipate an accelerating second half of the year and beyond.

在自動駕駛解決方案的快速進步的推動下，全球汽車產業正在經歷一場重大革命。我們很高興被認可為這股變革浪潮的[先驅]和領導者。迄今為止，我們已透過強大的 [SOP] 管道贏得了全球 18 家 OEM 廠商和一級供應商的約 70 款車型的 ADAS 設計勝利，我們熱切地預計下半年及以後的發展將加速。

As we look to the future, we remain committed to leading through innovation, using our technological capabilities to enhance safety, save lives and create a more intelligent global transportation system. We continue to bolstering our financial strength and global competitiveness, as we progress towards profitability by the fourth quarter of this year.

展望未來，我們仍然致力於透過創新引領，利用我們的技術能力來增強安全、拯救生命並創建更智慧的全球交通系統。隨著我們在今年第四季實現盈利，我們將繼續增強我們的財務實力和全球競爭力。

Thank you for your steadfast support and trust in our vision. We're excited about what lies ahead and remain confident in our ability to maintain our leading position and achieve sustained growth in our dynamic automotive industry. This concludes our prepared remarks today. And operator, we're now ready to take questions.

感謝您對我們願景的堅定支持和信任。我們對未來感到興奮，並對我們保持領先地位並在充滿活力的汽車行業實現持續增長的能力充滿信心。我們今天準備好的演講到此結束。接線員，我們現在準備好回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) The first question today comes from Stanley Wang from Morgan Stanley.

（操作員說明）今天的第一個問題來自摩根士丹利的Stanley Wang。

So my first question is on Li Auto. Would Hesai be the sole supplier to Li Auto's upcoming BEV model launches? And if so, what would be the latest impact following the delay of some of those launches to first half 2025?

我的第一個問題是關於理想汽車的。禾賽會成為理想汽車即將推出的純電動車型的唯一供應商嗎？如果是這樣，其中一些發布推遲到 2025 年上半年之後會產生什麼最新影響？

Thank you. This is David Li, the Co-Founder and the CEO. First, as far as we are concerned, we are the only supplier moving forward. Of course, this in the end is Li Auto's decision. And so, the answer is yes.

謝謝。我是聯合創始人兼執行長李大衛。首先，就我們而言，我們是唯一向前邁進的供應商。當然，這最終是理想汽車的決定。所以，答案是肯定的。

And the second question is how does fluctuation on Li Auto's volume change our shipments. Of course, it does impact us. But I just wanted to point out the fact that we have quite a few major EV makers we're shipping with, and Li Auto is only one of them. And I tend to think that the aggregated amount tend to be stable, especially given the fact that the China EV is growing very fast and the adaptation rate of the LiDARs are increasing very rapidly. So overall, we are -- we remain long-term optimistic about the volume.

第二個問題是理想汽車銷售的波動對我們的出貨量有何影響？當然，它確實對我們有影響。但我只是想指出這樣一個事實，我們有很多主要的電動車製造商與我們合作，而理想汽車只是其中之一。我傾向於認為總量趨於穩定，特別是考慮到中國電動車成長非常快，雷射雷達的適配率成長非常快。總的來說，我們對銷量保持長期樂觀。

Great. Very clear. Second question is on the recent global OEM project wins, could you elaborate a bit more on the scope and timing of these design wins? And when will mass production begin for them and whether they will start from China or take place overseas initially?

偉大的。非常清楚。第二個問題是關於最近贏得的全球 OEM 項目，您能否詳細說明這些設計獲勝的範圍和時間安排？何時開始量產？

Thank you. I'd like to be a little more careful, as we have a very strict agreement of what we can or cannot disclose on this program. What we could tell is that it is a program that ships globally. And it's not a China-only program.

謝謝。我想更加小心一點，因為我們對於在該計劃中可以或不可以披露的內容有非常嚴格的協議。我們可以確定的是，這是一個面向全球發行的程式。而且這並不是一個僅限中國的項目。

And so -- and the second thing is, I wanted to point out the development we have recently -- we explained that we have 2 additional top 10 global OEMs and when we say top 10 is ranked by revenue, and we have 2 additional programs. So now if you look at the total top 10 global OEMs by revenue, we have 6 of the 4 -- [then there is] 2 global OEM in total. And out of the 4, 3 [are with] the joint ventures, the other one is a program platform that ships globally. And of course, this -- and it's either directly or through their entity in their group, and those are design wins selected by the customer.

因此，第二件事是，我想指出我們最近的發展，我們解釋說，我們還有另外2 個全球排名前10 的原始設備製造商，當我們說排名前10 的公司是按收入排名時，我們還有2 個附加項目。所以現在如果你看看按收入計算的全球前 10 名 OEM 廠商的總數，我們有 4 家中的 6 家——[那麼總共有 2 家全球 OEM 廠商。在這 4 個中，有 3 個是合資企業，另一個是在全球範圍內發貨的程式平台。當然，這要么是直接的，要么是透過他們團隊中的實體，這些都是客戶選擇的設計勝利。

Actually, some of these customers have engaged with our peers previously. So we're not the first LiDAR company they work with, but they have concluded that we are the better fit for the programs, and they recognize our outstanding track record of delivering on time with the highest quality, as well as high performance and robust pipeline of the future advanced technologies. I'd like to think that securing this first worldwide shipping program is a landmark achievement for Hesai, as a LiDAR company given that these global OEMs [are] renowned for their stringent standard sourcing and verification, and we remain very hopeful that we will continue to work with more and more global OEMs.

事實上，其中一些客戶之前已經與我們的同行進行過接觸。因此，我們並不是他們合作的第一家 LiDAR 公司，但他們得出的結論是，我們更適合這些項目，並且他們認可我們在按時交付最高品質、高性能和穩健方面的傑出記錄。的管道。我認為，確保這個第一個全球運輸計劃對於禾賽來說是一個里程碑式的成就，因為這些全球原始設備製造商以其嚴格的標準採購和驗證而聞名，我們仍然非常希望我們能夠繼續下去與越來越多的全球原始設備製造商合作。

The next question comes from Jeff Chung from Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Jeff Chung。

Hi, David. This is Jeff. I have 2 questions. First is the excellent GP margins that we achieved in the first quarter. So could you give us a little bit more breakdown on the GP margins by products? And compared with the peers, I think our ASP seems to be much higher. So is it going to be sustainable going forward? This is my first question.

嗨，大衛。這是傑夫。我有 2 個問題。首先是我們在第一季取得的出色的毛利率。那麼您能否提供我們更多有關按產品劃分的 GP 利潤率的詳細資訊？而且與同行相比，我認為我們的ASP似乎要高得多。那麼，未來它會持續下去嗎？這是我的第一個問題。

And the second question is about the second quarter volume and the margin trend guidance. And last but not least, can you give us some more update on the overseas achievements?

第二個問題是關於第二季度的銷售和利潤率趨勢指引。最後，您能為我們介紹一下海外的成就嗎？

Thank you, Jeff. Two questions. One is the breakdown. Unfortunately, we don't provide additional information on the breakdown between ADAS and the robotaxi. I do want to point out the fact that robotaxi is a smaller volume, much higher ASP, a relatively higher margin business that we have always had as a very important part of our business. And the ASPs even for the robotaxi has gone down, but it still remains at a much higher level than the ADAS, again, also as a gross margin. That's one of the key reasons that we are -- we have the opportunity to have a reasonable blended gross margin.

謝謝你，傑夫。兩個問題。一是崩潰。不幸的是，我們不提供有關 ADAS 和機器人計程車之間故障的更多資訊。我確實想指出一個事實，即機器人計程車是一個銷量較小、平均售價高得多、利潤率相對較高的業務，我們一直將其視為我們業務中非常重要的一部分。即使是機器人計程車的平均售價也有所下降，但其毛利率仍然比 ADAS 高得多。這是我們有機會獲得合理的混合毛利率的關鍵原因之一。

I think the second question is on the global OEM. I think I have just mentioned that we have 6 out of the 10 global by Fortune 500 revenue. And was there additional question you want to ask on this topic? About the 2Q guidance.

我認為第二個問題是關於全球OEM的。我想我剛才提到過，以《財星》收入計算，全球 10 家 500 大企業中有 6 家是我們。關於這個話題您還有其他問題嗎？關於第二季指引。

The 2Q...

第二季...

So for the 2Q, we are guiding total shipments to reach approximately 90,000 units in the second quarter. So -- and also, we adjusted our annual target to over 500,000 for the entire year. And the updated forecast reflects our prudence in light of the fluctuations in the downstream EV sales. However, on the other side, I think we are adjusting our gross margin guidance as well because the robo -- the high-margin robotaxi business will reach around half of the total revenue in 2024, which will bring our blended gross margin of 2024 to the higher end of our guidance therefore, which is 30% to 35%, and we will reach the higher end of the guidance, which is 35%.

因此，對於第二季度，我們預計第二季度總出貨量將達到約 9 萬台。因此，我們也將全年目標調整為超過 50 萬。更新後的預測反映了我們對下游電動車銷售波動的審慎態度。然而，另一方面，我認為我們也在調整我們的毛利率指引，因為機器人——高利潤的機器人計程車業務將在2024 年達到總收入的一半左右，這將使我們2024 年的綜合毛利率達到因此，我們指導的較高端，即 30% 至 35%，我們將達到指導的較高端，即 35%。

So in light of this, I would say like the flywheel strategy we are having now will help drive the benefits of economies of scale. And on the other side, our high margin robotaxi business, they would still contribute a lot to our total gross profit as well. And we are very confident that we will reach our GAAP level profitability by the fourth quarter of this year.

因此，有鑑於此，我想說，我們現在採用的飛輪策略將有助於推動規模經濟的好處。另一方面，我們的高利潤機器人計程車業務仍然會對我們的總毛利做出很大貢獻。我們非常有信心在今年第四季達到 GAAP 水準的獲利能力。

And then on the global side, I think one piece of information we didn't specifically mention for this call is that we now have 12 RFI/RFQs with 9 leading global OEMs. And of course, with the recent design win, one has been converted, but most of them are expected to conclude in the less than -- following less than 12 months. And we definitely believe having a top-tier OEM taking us is very helpful for the rest to understand our capabilities in developing, delivering products to the core platforms are shipping globally, as a Chinese company. So we're super excited to continue to ride the momentum to hopefully add a few more to the list by this year.

然後在全球方面，我認為我們在這次電話會議中沒有特別提到的一條信息是，我們現在向 9 家全球領先的 OEM 發出了 12 個 RFI/RFQ。當然，隨著最近的設計勝利，其中一個已經進行了轉換，但大多數預計將在不到 12 個月的時間內完成。我們絕對相信，作為一家中國公司，擁有一家頂級 OEM 來帶領我們，對於其他人了解我們開發、向全球銷售的核心平台交付產品的能力非常有幫助。因此，我們非常興奮能夠繼續乘勢而上，希望今年能在名單中添加更多內容。

The next question comes from Tina Hou from Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的蒂娜·侯。

Thanks for your time. And I have 2 questions. So the first one is in terms of ATX, it's a very exciting new product. So just wondering in like a steady state, what kind of volume contribution would ATX need considering it's much more economical and then more like mass market models is able to adapt that? So that's the first question.

謝謝你的時間。我有兩個問題。所以第一個是就ATX而言，這是一個非常令人興奮的新產品。因此，想知道在穩定狀態下，ATX 需要什麼樣的銷售貢獻，考慮到它更經濟，然後更像大眾市場模型能夠適應這一點？這是第一個問題。

The second question is in terms of like volume from the customers. So if there is any like fluctuation or the customers churn out, their volume is lower than expected, do we have any like pricing protection in place for us because we need to prepare the inventory and production lines for the customers. So just wondering, would we get like higher price if there is less volume than expected from some of the customers?

第二個問題是來自客戶的類似數量。因此，如果出現任何類似的波動或客戶流失，其數量低於預期，我們是否有任何類似的價格保護，因為我們需要為客戶準備庫存和生產線。所以我想知道，如果某些客戶的銷售量低於預期，我們會得到更高的價格嗎？

Thank you, Tina. I will probably do the second question first because that's kind of an easier question. So it's always a step pricing. So normally, when we have a design win and a production contract with an OEM, it usually has tied to 2 conditions. One is, of course, timing by year. The other is volume because normally, when we offer a competitive price, it's under the condition of -- they will take this many units [by] this year. And then if they don't, they always have to renegotiate with us on a higher price or just fit back into the original stepping price, which is a slightly higher price if it's a lower volume. So that's the standard for the industry.

謝謝你，蒂娜。我可能會先回答第二個問題，因為這是一個更簡單的問題。因此，定價始終是階梯式的。因此，通常情況下，當我們贏得設計並與 OEM 簽訂生產合約時，通常與兩個條件相關。當然，其中之一是按年份計時。另一個是數量，因為通常情況下，當我們提供有競爭力的價格時，條件是——他們今年將採取這麼多單位。如果他們不這樣做，他們總是必須與我們重新談判更高的價格，或者只是回到原來的階梯價格，如果銷量較低，價格會略高。這就是業界標準。

And the other question is, you wanted to explain more about the volume and some of the transitions of the 128P and ATX. So the ATX start production in 2025, but AT128P accounts for the majority in the volume. The 128P annual decline is in the tens of [the things -- is things] and (inaudible) price, ATX is a very competitive, price competitive for the price among the similar product in the category, and we expect more than 1 million units in the year 2025. And in the year 2026, we expect the ASP for the rest of the product also remain stable.

另一個問題是，您想詳細解釋128P和ATX的體積和一些過渡。因此ATX將於2025年開始生產，但AT128P佔產量的大部分。 128P每年的下降幅度是幾十[東西--是東西]和（聽不清楚）價格，ATX在同類產品中是非常有競爭力的，價格有競爭力，我們預計超過100萬台到2025年。到2026年，我們預計其餘產品的平均售價也保持穩定。

I want to point out that the difference between the 2 products. It's very clear that the ATX is designed for a mass market adoption. Actually, a lot of those customers are expecting ATX to be a standard configuration, standard, meaning that they're going to ship ATX with every car they ship, and -- which is a bold move, but I think it's the right choice.

我想指出這兩種產品之間的差異。很明顯，ATX 是為大眾市場採用而設計的。事實上，許多客戶都希望ATX 成為一種標準配置、標準，這意味著他們將在他們發貨的每輛車上都配備ATX，而且——這是一個大膽的舉動，但我認為這是正確的選擇。

Here's how we look at it. Historically, the AT128 series was mostly on the relatively higher-end trim of the car with more advanced ADAS functions. We call them the functional parts meaning that if you pay for the price, you get even more functions. But now with the penetration rate and the public awareness of the AEB function, automatic emergency brake, what's happening is that people see that more as like a airbag seatbelt type of a product, as opposed to something that with additional function, now it's something with additional safety.

我們是這樣看待它的。從歷史上看，AT128系列主要是相對高階的車型，具有更先進的ADAS功能。我們將它們稱為功能部件，這意味著如果您支付相應的價格，您將獲得更多功能。但現在隨著AEB功能、自動緊急煞車的普及率和公眾意識的提高，人們看到的更像是安全氣囊安全帶類型的產品，而不是附加功能的東西，現在它是附加功能的東西。

This is a very pivotal moment for the industry because, look, if you're buying LiDAR because you believe and it's true that you're getting additional safety, it's a pretty difficult decision, [when] you decide not to take a LiDAR. It's like when you have an airbag that you decide not to take because of the price reason. So that's the biggest reason. A lot of the people are expecting the ATX to be a much more affordable product than AT128P, which is, of course, the case. And also, a lot of people are expecting the penetration rate dramatically increase, as we ship.

對於該行業來說，這是一個非常關鍵的時刻，因為，看，如果您購買光達是因為您相信而且確實您獲得了額外的安全性，那麼當您決定不購買光達時，這是一個非常困難的決定。這就像你有一個安全氣囊，但由於價格原因而決定不使用一樣。所以這是最大的原因。很多人都期望 ATX 是比 AT128P 更實惠的產品，當然事實確實如此。而且，隨著我們的出貨，許多人預計滲透率會大幅提高。

And in response to your question, Tina, I understand like many analysts would be interested to explore more information about the ASP and volume of our ADAS products. So let me share some more insights on this. So in 2023, our ADAS LiDAR, ASP around $500. And in 2024, as we guided before, the AT series LiDAR, which is the ADAS LiDAR there, ASP will be below [3,000], as we guided, and that shares the same view, as we want to make the LiDAR business as a long-term and sustainable business. So our ASP is in a very healthy range.

蒂娜，為了回答你的問題，我知道許多分析師都有興趣探索有關我們 ADAS 產品的 ASP 和數量的更多資訊。因此，讓我分享一些對此的更多見解。所以到2023年，我們的ADAS LiDAR，ASP大約在500美元。到 2024 年，正如我們之前指導的那樣，AT 系列 LiDAR，即 ADAS LiDAR，ASP 將低於 [3,000]，正如我們所指導的那樣，並且我們有相同的觀點，因為我們希望將 LiDAR 業務打造成長期且可持續的業務。所以我們的平均售價處於一個非常健康的範圍內。

And in 2025, because we have -- we are going to start production of our ATX product, which is more value-to-cost product. But we still expect that in 2024, it would be just the beginning of production of the ATX products, which means that the original AT128P product will still account for the majority of the shipments in 2025. And the total LiDAR shipments we expect in 2025 will be over 1 million units. And in 2026, I think the ATX product, which is the higher value-to-cost product will account for the majority of ADAS LiDAR shipments. And in 2026, we expect the total LiDAR shipments will be over 2 million units. So hopefully, that will answer your question.

到 2025 年，因為我們將開始生產 ATX 產品，這是一種性價比更高的產品。但我們仍然預計，2024年，ATX產品才剛開始量產，這意味著原有的AT128P產品仍將佔據2025年出貨量的大部分。 100萬台。到2026年，我認為ATX產品，也就是性價比較高的產品，將佔據ADAS LiDAR出貨量的大部分。到2026年，我們預計雷射雷達總出貨量將超過200萬台。希望這能回答你的問題。

Also, we are seeing a very -- I would like to say something about the industry trend, right? So we are witnessing a very rapid increase in the adoption of LiDAR. So the business is driven by the swift development of the intelligent driving functions and a growing awareness of safety among the consumers. So both factors actually significantly contributed to widespread acceptance of the LiDAR.

另外，我們看到了一個非常——我想談談行業趨勢，對嗎？因此，我們目睹了雷射雷達的採用速度非常快。因此，智慧駕駛功能的快速發展和消費者安全意識的增強推動了該業務的發展。因此，這兩個因素實際上極大地促進了雷射雷達的廣泛接受。

And while cost remains a very crucial consideration for these OEMs, I would like to say that it is not the sole determinant. I think the paramount, or the priority of the OEM is still to get the optimal value-to-cost ratios, where the value encompasses not only the product gap, but also the performance, the reliability and the mass production capability we have. And these are the areas, where we or the Hesai excel. And a good example is our customers' latest car model. So the car model was even priced below [150,000], but it now features a LiDAR configuration. I think that is a good trend. And we are very confident that in the next year or 2, more of -- more and more of our OEMs will go into SOP phase, and that will bring our shipment of the LiDARs to go to the next stage of development.

雖然成本對於這些原始設備製造商來說仍然是一個非常重要的考慮因素，但我想說這並不是唯一的決定因素。我認為最重要的，或者說OEM的首要任務仍然是獲得最佳的性價比，其中的價值不僅包括產品差距，還包括我們擁有的性能、可靠性和量產能力。這些都是我們或禾賽人擅長的領域。一個很好的例子就是我們客戶的最新車款。所以這款車的售價甚至低於[15萬]，但現在卻配備了LiDAR配置。我認為這是一個好的趨勢。我們非常有信心，在未來一兩年內，越來越多的 OEM 廠商將進入 SOP 階段，這將使我們的 LiDAR 出貨量進入下一開發階段。

The next question comes from Bin Wang from Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的王斌。

My question is about the assumption for your breakeven in the [number 4] quarter. Can you provide, for example, the volume assumption in the number 4 quarter and the gross margin? Is that the breakeven been driven by the huge amount of the robotaxi LiDAR. So that's number one question.

我的問題是關於您在第 4 個季度實現盈虧平衡的假設。例如，您能否提供第四季的銷售假設和毛利率？損益平衡是由大量機器人出租車雷射雷達推動的嗎？這是第一個問題。

And number 2 is about the products, you mentioned is 18 OEM under Tier 1. So can those 17 OEM on one Tier 1 or 18 OEM with another additional Tier 1. And especially for the Marelli priced vehicle (inaudible), we found that Marelli lights actually [based] on a BMW vehicle. Can you assume you actually indirectly supply to BMW [via] Marelli.

第2 點是關於產品，您提到的是第1 級下的18 個OEM。 Marelli 定價的車輛（聽不清楚），我們發現Marelli燈實際上[基於]寶馬汽車。您能否假設您實際上透過馬瑞利間接向寶馬供貨？

So I will answer the second -- again, the second question first. So we do work with Marelli and Hesai publicly announced a collaboration in which we put in a lot of innovation to try to integrate the LiDAR into a headlamp. And it's actually very smart in the sense that you can do multiple configurations at the headlamp 1 or 2 looking at forward or to the sideways and that it has the benefit of ease of cleaning and installation. It just makes a lot of things easier, especially for Western like European, American OEMs, not having a LiDAR sticking at the top of your vehicle is actually helpful.

所以我會先回答第二個問題——同樣，第二個問題。因此，我們與馬瑞利和禾賽公開宣布了合作，我們投入了大量創新，嘗試將光達整合到頭燈中。它實際上非常智能，您可以在前照燈 1 或 2 上進行多種配置，向前或向側面看，並且它具有易於清潔和安裝的優點。它只是讓很多事情變得更容易，特別是對於歐洲、美國等西方原始設備製造商來說，不在車輛頂部安裝光達實際上是有幫助的。

I would argue the China market probably thinks a little differently. But for the European and American traditional carmakers, they do [it by] not having to deal with the roof-mounted LiDAR for the ease of installation reasons. But it was just a demo kit the Marelli built. And I would not overread that because the headlamp has to be installed on any car and it does not necessarily mean that this will be the decision -- and the OEMs that we already have contract with. So I would not overread that.

我認為中國市場的想法可能略有不同。但對於歐美傳統汽車製造商來說，出於安裝方便的原因，他們不需要處理車頂安裝的雷射雷達。但這只是馬瑞利製造的一個示範套件。我不會過度解讀這一點，因為頭燈必須安裝在任何汽車上，但這並不一定意味著這將是我們已經與之簽訂合約的原始設備製造商的決定。所以我不會過度解讀這一點。

And let me clarify that Marelli is not currently counted in the number of 18 OEMs and Tier 1s. So when we talk about 18 OEM, Tier 1s, they are largely customers of us, who we have to deal with.

讓我澄清一下，Marelli 目前並未計入 18 家 OEM 和 Tier 1 的數量。因此，當我們談論 18 個 OEM、一級供應商時，他們很大程度上是我們的客戶，我們必須與他們打交道。

And also, in response to your question about the fourth quarter. So for the fourth quarter, we are expecting more than 200,000 units of LiDARs to be shipped with a very healthy gross margin level. So we guided for the full year, the gross margin will reach the high end of 30% to 35% range, and that will be applying to -- that will be applied to Q4 as well. And by Q4, we are expecting to reach the GAAP level profitability.

另外，回答你關於第四季的問題。因此，我們預計第四季度 LiDAR 的出貨量將超過 20 萬台，毛利率水準非常健康。因此，我們預計全年毛利率將達到 30% 至 35% 範圍的高端，這將適用於第四季。到第四季度，我們預計將達到 GAAP 水準的獲利能力。

And for the full year, I think the operating expense overall for the entire year will be very healthy, and we are adopting very effective expense management on this. So we are expecting conservatively guiding -- we will be having 10% to 15% of operating expense increase, and that will be coming from around 15% -- around 10% to 15% increase from the R&D. I think G&A will be relatively stable, as sales and marketing account for another 10% or 15% of increase. So by the fourth quarter, because the fourth quarter will be our largest quarter during the year because of the seasonality, so we are expecting the profitability will be achieved in the fourth quarter.

對於全年而言，我認為全年的整體營運費用將非常健康，我們對此採取了非常有效的費用管理。因此，我們預計保守的指導——我們的營運費用將增加 10% 到 15%，這將來自於研發費用的 15% 左右——大約 10% 到 15% 的成長。我認為 G&A 將相對穩定，因為銷售和行銷將佔另外 10% 或 15% 的成長。所以到第四季度，由於季節性原因，第四季度將是我們全年最大的季度，所以我們預計第四季度將實現盈利。

The next question comes from Jessie Lo from BofA.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Jessie Lo。

Thank you, David and team for taking my question. So first question, I would like to ask about our other clients are supposed to SOP this year because I understand that we are lowering the number because of our large clients, but then how about the other clients such as BYD, SIC, Xiaomi, Changan, Leapmotor, Great Wall, et cetera. That's my first question.

謝謝大衛和團隊回答我的問題。所以第一個問題，我想問一下我們的其他客戶今年應該進行SOP，因為我知道我們因為我們的大客戶而減少了數量，但是其他客戶如比亞迪、SIC、小米、長安呢？長城等等。這是我的第一個問題。

Yes. Thank you. So again, I want to quickly remind people that we're really shipping with a large number of OEMs this year and especially next, right? And a few of them, we didn't have the permission to mention their names, but you have Li Auto, you have Xiaomi, Changan, Great Wall, Leapmotor, Lotus (inaudible) GAC, FAW. So and quite a few other JVs that we haven't announced yet.

是的。謝謝。再次強調，我想快速提醒人們，我們今年確實與大量 OEM 廠商合作，尤其是明年，對嗎？其中一些，我們沒有被允許提及他們的名字，但是你有理想汽車，你有小米，長安，長城，零跑，蓮花（聽不清楚）廣汽，一汽。還有很多我們尚未宣布的其他合資企業。

So this is -- the aggregate amount for this year is pretty [special] especially the -- I think it's public info that quite a few OEMs, especially like Xiaomi is getting a lot of traction, and we definitely expect significant volume from Xiaomi as well this year. And we're also very hopeful for like Changan and Great Wall, and they're all shipping this year. And so again, when you add them up, we are pretty confident that we will deliver the number we expected.

所以，今年的總金額非常[特別]，尤其是——我認為這是公開信息，相當多的原始設備製造商，尤其是小米，正在獲得很大的關注，我們肯定預計小米的銷量會很大，因為今年很好。我們對長安和長城也非常有希望，今年它們都會出貨。所以，當你把它們加起來時，我們非常有信心交付我們預期的數字。

Yes. And on top of that, for the full year 2024, I think for the volume guidance, Li Auto will still take the majority of our ADAS shipments in 2024. And for the Tier 2, there are several companies include Xiaomi, Changan, Great Wall, Leapmotor and also the...

是的。最重要的是，對於2024年全年，我認為就銷量指導而言，理想汽車仍將佔據我們2024年ADAS出貨量的大部分。長城、零跑還有...

Yes. And Li Auto -- yes, there is also another large EV maker that we didn't specify the name for, right,so.

是的。還有理想汽車——是的，還有另一家大型電動車製造商，我們沒有指定名稱，對吧。

Yes. And each of the companies in the Tier 2, as we just mentioned, will account for around [20,000] to 100,000 units each and the Tier 3 companies, as just David mentioned as well. So add it up together, I think these ADAS clients will deliver around 450,000 unit ADAS LiDAR, in 2024 and adding another around 30,000 to 40,000 or some number around that. We will have total shipments in 2024 to reach over [500,000] units of LiDAR to be shipped.

是的。正如我們剛才提到的，二級公司中的每家公司將分別擁有大約[20,000] 到100,000 台的單位，而正如大衛也提到的那樣，三級公司也將擁有大約[20,000] 到100,000台單位。因此，加在一起，我認為這些 ADAS 客戶將在 2024 年交付約 450,000 台 ADAS LiDAR，並再增加約 30,000 至 40,000 台或附近的某個數字。到 2024 年，我們的 LiDAR 總出貨量將超過 [500,000] 台。

And then also my second question is about, is there any update on the DOD (inaudible) lawsuit? And then how much of the loss you expense are we expecting right now?

我的第二個問題是，國防部（聽不清楚）訴訟有任何更新嗎？那麼我們現在預計您會損失多少？

Sure. So you're talking about the 1260H, right? So I have an answer for you. Following the company's inclusion on the CMC list, Hesai has faced significant challenges. Additionally, Hesai has been the focus of intense media scrutiny, which has, at times, inaccurately portrayed our business activities. These development highlights urgency and the importance of addressing and rectifying the situation to mitigate the impact on our operation and the stakeholder confidence.

當然。所以你說的是1260H，對吧？所以我有一個答案給你。進入CMC名單後，禾賽面臨巨大的挑戰。此外，禾賽一直是媒體密切關注的焦點，而媒體有時不準確地描述了我們的業務活動。這些事態發展凸顯了解決和糾正這種情況的緊迫性和重要性，以減輕對我們營運和利害關係人信心的影響。

It's clear the misinformation spread by some of the competitors before found their way to the government agencies. With our continuous effort to clear the fact we have successfully convinced the U.S. government and its agencies to revise their evidence and containing certain information about Hesai and it has also been those revisions has been updated publicly.

很明顯，一些競爭對手在進入政府機構之前就散佈了錯誤訊息。透過我們不斷努力澄清事實，我們已成功說服美國政府及其機構修改其證據並包含有關和賽的某些信息，並且這些修改已公開更新。

I would like to clarify and emphasize again that Hesai has strictly operates within the civilian sector and has no connections or affiliation with any military. Our products are designed exclusively for a civilian application, are not designed or validated for military use. We remain undoubted in our commitment to developing market-leading LiDAR technologies that reduce accident, save lives and make global transportation safer for everyone, and protecting the interest of our shareholders remains our top priority.

我想再次澄清並強調，禾賽嚴格在民事領域運作，與任何軍方沒有任何聯繫和隸屬關係。我們的產品專為民用應用而設計，並非為軍事用途而設計或驗證。我們毫無疑問地致力於開發市場領先的雷射雷達技術，以減少事故、拯救生命並使全球交通對每個人來說都更加安全，保護股東的利益仍然是我們的首要任務。

We filed a lawsuit to defend ourselves. We seek to open dialogue with DOD to better understand why it added us to the list. Ultimately, we want to understand their concerns are very willing to find a mitigation solution together. The lawsuit is ongoing because we are -- because of that we are limited in what we're able to discuss at this time. We'll continue to keep our shareholders and investors updated on any significant development. I hope this answers your question.

我們提起訴訟為自己辯護。我們尋求與國防部展開對話，以便更了解為何將我們列入名單。最終，我們希望了解他們的擔憂，並非常願意共同尋找緩解解決方案。訴訟正在進行中，因為我們目前能夠討論的內容有限。我們將繼續向股東和投資者通報任何重大進展。我希望這回答了你的問題。

(Operator Instructions) The next question comes from [Zhang Yu] from Huatai Securities.

（操作員指令）下一個問題來自華泰證券[張宇]。

My first question is about the robotaxi era. We noticed that Tesla is about to release the robotaxi on August. What do we feel about the robotaxi industry. Is it warming up in the third quarter or the fourth quarter?

我的第一個問題是關於機器人計程車時代的。我們注意到特斯拉即將在八月發布機器人計程車。我們對機器人計程車產業有何看法？是第三季回暖還是第四季回升？

Sorry, you asked about Tesla, right. And can you repeat the second part of your question?

抱歉，您問的是特斯拉，對吧。您能重複問題的第二部分嗎？

My first question is what we feel about the robotaxi industry, is it warm up -- is it warm up in the third quarter or the fourth quarter?

我的第一個問題是我們對機器人計程車行業的看法，它是否正在升溫——是在第三季還是第四季升溫？

Excuse me, [Zhang], would you mind if you repeat your question in Chinese, and we can answer in English.

打擾一下，[張]，您介意用中文重複一下您的問題嗎？

(foreign language)

（外語）

I think as of now, we didn't guide specifically for the robotaxi business in the second half of the year. But overall, for the entire year of 2024, we believe that the robotaxi business overall account around roughly half of our total revenues in 2024. And in the robotaxi business, we are seeing a very fast ramp up of the non-U.S. business, that includes some of our leading Level 4 players, such as Baidu and Pony.ai. I think for one of the largest U.S. clients we had, I think for them, we are seeing a good positive update seeing that they are reopening their testing rights. I think that's a good sign. But as of now, we didn't account the potential upside in our current guidance.

我認為目前來看，下半年我們還沒有專門針對Robotaxi業務進行指導。但總體而言，對於 2024 年全年，我們認為機器人計程車業務總體約占我們 2024 年總收入的一半左右。領先的4 級參與者，例如百度和小馬智行。我認為對於我們最大的美國客戶之一來說，我認為對他們來說，我們看到了一個很好的積極更新，因為他們正在重新開放他們的測試權。我認為這是一個好兆頭。但截至目前，我們尚未考慮到目前指導中的潛在上行空間。

So I would answer in a slightly different angle. First is that the fact that Tesla is spending effort in trying to bring robotaxi to more general public and even possibly in China is a good sign, and it's been consistent with what Elon has said and their strategy of believing that in the end, the biggest product, biggest productivity boost is coming from robotaxi, right, so and recognizing that. It does not necessarily mean that they will use LiDAR, but it's pretty clear that they believe there is enormous amount of value being created in this industry. And we are seeing steady development, not the exponential growth for the robotaxi industry globally as people were expecting a few years ago, but it's a steady development.

所以我會從稍微不同的角度來回答。首先，特斯拉正在努力將機器人出租車推向更多公眾，甚至可能在中國，這是一個好兆頭，這與埃隆所說的以及他們相信最終最大的戰略是一致的。的生產力提升來自於機器人計程車，對吧，所以並認識到這一點。這並不一定意味著他們會使用光達，但很明顯他們相信這個行業正在創造巨大的價值。我們看到全球機器人計程車產業正在穩步發展，雖然不像人們幾年前預期的那樣呈指數級增長，但這是一個穩定的發展。

What I do want to point out is that when we talk about robotaxi, it's a fluid concept in the sense that if you're only talking about steering wheel that's people mover, that type of robotaxi, that's really just one kind of the application. What we see today across the globe on the industry is that you can really just do quite a few Level 4 applications without using the strict concept.

我確實想指出的是，當我們談論機器人出租車時，這是一個流動的概念，因為如果您只談論方向盤，即乘客捷運系統，那麼這種類型的機器人出租車實際上只是一種應用程序。今天我們在全球產業中看到的是，您實際上可以在不使用嚴格概念的情況下完成相當多的 4 級應用程式。

For example, there is robotruck. There's robo sweeper, there's robo grocery delivery box. And if you use that more stretch the definition of robotaxi, those are all growing steadily. We're actually seeing a lot of volumes increase this year on those type of applications in which you need a slightly lower performance LiDAR, more affordable, but they have bigger volume, and the practicality of those technological products are much more tangible than the most challenging application, which is a people mover. So if you look at robotaxi, as a whole, we're actually pretty optimistic that this market will steadily grow. But I don't -- I wouldn't necessarily say we're counting on Q3 or Q4 because we're the biggest player in this industry already, we expect the industry to steadily grow.

例如，有機器人卡車。有機器人掃地機，有機器人雜貨配送箱。如果你使用更廣泛的機器人出租車的定義，這些都在穩步增長。實際上，今年我們看到這類應用的銷量大幅增加，這些應用需要性能稍低、價格更便宜的光達，但它們的銷量更大，而且這些技術產品的實用性比大多數產品更加切實。具有挑戰性的應用程序，這是一個人員移動工具。因此，如果你把機器人計程車作為一個整體來看，我們實際上非常樂觀地認為這個市場將會穩定成長。但我不——我不一定會說我們指望第三季度或第四季度，因為我們已經是這個行業最大的參與者，我們預計該行業將穩步成長。

(foreign language) My second question is about AT512. We see the performance of the AT512 is really strong. Is it possible to replace the (inaudible) in the robotaxi?

（外語）我的第二個問題是關於AT512的。我們看到AT512的效能確實很強。是否可以更換機器人計程車中的（聽不清楚）？

Yes. I think the answer is clearly yes, right? So if you're saying that, do I always expect robotaxi to only use (inaudible) LiDAR. I don't think we ever said that. The truth is that if you look at the latest product launch of the Baidu robotaxi by the way, it's also a long-term partner and have been the investor, they actually use our AT128 series, right? So -- and then I think they publicly said that they are expecting to deliver over 1,000 robotaxi vehicles. So first, I think -- I hope this helps in your assessment of the situation.

是的。我想答案顯然是肯定的，對嗎？所以，如果你這麼說，我是否總是期望機器人出租車只使用（聽不清楚）光達。我想我們從來沒有這麼說過。事實上，如果你順便看看百度Robotaxi最新推出的產品，它也是長期合作夥伴，一直是投資者，他們實際上使用的是我們的AT128系列，對嗎？所以——然後我認為他們公開表示他們預計將交付超過 1,000 輛機器人計程車。首先，我認為——我希望這有助於您評估情況。

Then AT512 is a much more powerful product than 128 in 2 regards. One is it has 8 more times of resolution going from (technical difficulty) right? And the second one is -- and it is expecting to exceed 300 meter range. And I think what's more interesting as we see is that if you look at the name, it's [AT] because it's the similar architecture of one-d scanning. So the beauty of our architecture is that we could go with a more affordable model, which is ATX from the AT128 platform, and we go the other direction of AT512, which is a much more powerful product also with the same platform.

那麼AT512在2個方面是比128強大許多的產品。一是它的解析度比（技術難度）多了8倍，對嗎？第二個是－預計射程將超過 300 公尺。我認為我們看到的更有趣的是，如果你看名字，它是[AT]，因為它與一維掃描的架構類似。因此，我們架構的優點在於，我們可以選擇更實惠的型號，即來自 AT128 平台的 ATX，而我們則選擇 AT512 的另一個方向，這是一款功能更強大的產品，也具有相同的平台。

So I think the takeaway is that I publicly said this, everybody wants to ride on the wave of the Moore's law. But if you carefully read what's in the Moore's law, there are really 2 ways to do that. One is you keep similar performance. And over every 18 months or even shorter amount of time, you can half the price or you can keep the similar price level and then you can greatly enhance your performance, as I said 8x resolution with a similar price range, which is, of course, AT512.

所以我認為我公開說過的要點是，每個人都想乘上摩爾定律的浪潮。但如果你仔細閱讀摩爾定律的內容，你會發現其實有兩種方法可以做到這一點。一是你保持相似的表現。每18 個月甚至更短的時間，你可以將價格減半，或者保持相似的價格水平，然後你可以大大提高你的性能，正如我所說的8 倍分辨率和相似的價格範圍，當然，這是，AT512。

And then, we expect the higher-end AT512 platform to be widely adopted for the Western -- the European, American OEMs for their Level 3 application, and we expect the ATX to be the affordable model. It's a little brother to be widely used by the C OEMs, [Level 2+] application. And we're very glad that for both assumptions, we already have enough data points, as design wins, both globally and especially in China, and there are many customers have already decided to pick up for the ATX. So I think the Moore's law implementation in both paths are already being fully validated.

然後，我們預計高階 AT512 平台將被西方（歐洲、美國 OEM 廠商）廣泛採用，用於其 3 級應用，我們預計 ATX 將成為價格實惠的型號。它是 C OEM 廣泛使用的小兄弟，[Level 2+] 應用程式。我們非常高興的是，對於這兩個假設，我們已經擁有足夠的數據點，因為設計在全球範圍內，尤其是在中國都取得了勝利，並且有許多客戶已經決定購買 ATX。所以我認為摩爾定律在這兩條路徑上的實作已經得到充分驗證。

The next question comes from Michelle Jing from HTI.

下一個問題來自 HTI 的 Michelle Jing。

Hi, everyone. This is Michelle, I'm so excited, of course, to hear our wonderful performance and also our innovation. And my question is kind of based on the questions from the previous analyst. As you talked about penetration rate increased tremendously, and we expect more LiDAR product that's going to be used in [100,000 to 150,000] priced product vehicle models, I mean. So as you previously talked about the price expectations, can you please share how does the company view and respond to the future competition? And on top of the competition, can you please talk more about your future cost and scale optimization strategy and just strategy in general?

大家好。這是米歇爾，我當然很興奮聽到我們精彩的表演和我們的創新。我的問題是基於前一位分析師的問題。正如您所說，滲透率大幅增加，我的意思是，我們預計更多的 LiDAR 產品將用於 [100,000 至 150,000] 價位的產品車型。那麼，正如您之前談到的價格預期，您能否分享一下公司如何看待和應對未來的競爭？除了競爭之外，您能否多談談您未來的成本和規模優化策略以及整體公正策略？

So your question is on the price competition becoming more intense, as we dive into the category of below RMB 150,000, how do we fight this competition, as a company strategy wise, right? So I think the biggest strategy we have on this is the internalization and in-house ASICs, as we always explained, right? So China market is very interesting in the sense that it's almost relentless in wanting something that is even slightly cheaper. There is no secret on that. And we have to address that, and we have, right?

那麼你的問題是價格競爭越來越激烈，當我們進入15萬元以下的品類時，作為公司戰略明智的我們如何應對這種競爭，對吧？所以我認為我們在這方面最大的策略是內部化和內部 ASIC，正如我們一直解釋的那樣，對嗎？因此，中國市場非常有趣，因為它幾乎無情地想要更便宜的東西。這並沒有什麼秘密。我們必須解決這個問題，我們已經解決了，對吧？

So -- and instead of just losing money to win business, we work on innovation to [own out our] supply chain and [assembly] and to continue to have better integration and internal development to reduce the cost to return to the reasonable margin that we expect to be at. I think it's -- I'm pretty confident to say that we are on the right path, and we were the earliest one in trying to do that in the industry, and we've gone furthest in the internalization rate of our product, as well as just a sheer amount of development on the number of semiconductors we have as a company.

因此，我們不是僅僅靠賠錢來贏得業務，而是致力於創新，[擁有我們的]供應鏈和[組裝]，並繼續進行更好的整合和內部開發，以降低成本，恢復到合理的利潤水平。我認為——我非常有信心地說，我們走在正確的道路上，我們是業內最早嘗試這樣做的人，而且我們在產品的國際化率方面走得最遠，因為以及我們作為一家公司所擁有的半導體數量的巨大發展。

And on the other side, I do want to point out that price isn't the only factor in any competition, anywhere else, even in China because if you only want something that's extremely chip -- cheap, you really just don't have to use LiDAR. Why do people use LiDAR at all? So I think the reason for most OEMs is that they want to build a car that is either really smarter or at least perceived to be smarter, so -- and as intelligent driving.

另一方面，我確實想指出，價格並不是任何競爭中的唯一因素，無論在其他地方，甚至在中國，因為如果你只想要一些非常晶片的東西——便宜的，你真的就沒有使用光達。人們為什麼使用光達？所以我認為大多數原始設備製造商的原因是他們想要製造一輛真正更聰明的汽車，或至少被認為是更聰明的汽車，因此——智慧駕駛。

For that reason, being able to tell your customer, the OEMs being able to tell your customers that we are equipped with best Hesai LiDAR with the highest performance in the industry, with the biggest brand, and this is also the similar platform that most of the world's renowned car makers are using. As we said, 6 -- we have collaborations with 6 out of the 10 players in different forms. That is actually very helpful to Chinese customers.

所以，能夠告訴你的客戶，主機工廠能夠告訴你的客戶，我們配備了業界最好的、性能最高、品牌最大的禾賽光達，這也是大多數廠商的同類平台。使用。正如我們所說，6——我們與 10 名參與者中的 6 名進行了不同形式的合作。這對中國客戶來說其實是非常有幫助的。

So instead of asking the OEM to pay for it without the justification, we try to see as a way to help promoting the OEMs product. The money they pay on LiDAR is supposed to give [them a] ROI of multiple [apps] because they can recruit the investment by having a much better vehicle volume sales. So I think that's the goal. And for that reason, we need to control our costs first, and in the same time, continue to build our brand and continue to expand globally to make this product, the go to LiDAR for every vehicle. And then in the end, we will be able to penetrate hopefully to all of the passenger vehicles.

因此，我們不會在沒有正當理由的情況下要求原始設備製造商支付費用，而是嘗試尋找一種幫助推廣原始設備製造商產品的方法。他們在光達上支付的錢應該會給他們帶來多個[應用程式]的投資回報率，因為他們可以透過更好的車輛銷售來吸引投資。所以我認為這就是目標。因此，我們需要先控製成本，同時繼續打造我們的品牌並繼續在全球擴張，使這款產品成為每輛車的光達產品。最終，我們將有望滲透到所有乘用車。

Thank you. That does conclude the question-and-answer session. I will turn the call back over to the company for any closing remarks.

謝謝。問答環節到此結束。我會將電話轉回公司聽取結束語。

Thank you, once again for joining us today. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our IR team. This concludes today's call, and we look forward to speaking to you again, next quarter. Thank you, and goodbye.

再次感謝您今天加入我們。如果您還有任何疑問，請隨時聯絡我們的 IR 團隊。今天的電話會議到此結束，我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。謝謝，再見。