Hesai Group (HSAI) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to Hesai Group's first-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's conference call is being recorded.

女士們、先生們，大家好，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加禾賽集團2025年第一季業績電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the call over to our first speaker today, Yuanting Shi, the company's Head of Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

現在，我將把電話轉給今天的第一位發言者，公司資本市場主管史元婷。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining Hesai Group's first-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Our earnings release is now available on our IR website at investors.hesaitech.com as well as our newswire services.

謝謝您，接線生。大家好。感謝您參加禾賽集團2025年第一季業績電話會議。我們的收益報告現已在我們的投資者關係網站 investors.hesaitech.com 以及我們的新聞專線服務上發布。

Today, you'll hear from our CEO, Dr. David Li, who will provide an overview of our recent updates. Next, our CFO, Mr. Andrew Fan, will address our financial results before we open the call for questions.

今天，您將聽到我們的執行長 David Li 博士的講話，他將概述我們最近的更新。接下來，我們的財務長 Andrew Fan 先生將在我們開始提問之前介紹我們的財務表現。

Before we continue, I refer you to the safe harbor statement in our earnings press release, which applies today's call as we will make forward-looking statements.

在我們繼續之前，請參閱我們收益新聞稿中的安全港聲明，該聲明適用於今天的電話會議，因為我們將做出前瞻性陳述。

Please also note that the company will discuss non-GAAP measures today, which are more thoroughly explained and reconciled to the most comparable measures reported on a GAAP in our earnings release and SEC filings.

另請注意，公司今天將討論非 GAAP 指標，這些指標將在我們的收益報告和 SEC 文件中得到更徹底的解釋和協調，並與 GAAP 中報告的最具可比性的指標相一致。

With that, I'm pleased to turn over the call to our CEO, Dr. David Li. David, please go ahead.

說到這裡，我很高興將電話轉給我們的執行長 David Li 博士。大衛，請繼續。

Thank you, Yuanting, and thank you, everyone, for joining our call today. Let's start with an overview of this quarter's progress.

謝謝袁婷，也謝謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。我們先來概述一下本季的進展。

We began with a strong start in 2025, fueled by outstanding momentum in our ADAS and Robotics segment and backed by solid financial results. Our shipments more than tripled year over year to nearly 200,000 LiDAR units in the first quarter despite the impact of typical seasonal patterns. This explosive growth fielded an almost 50% year-over-year jump in our net revenue. Thanks to sharp execution, operational discipline and cost control we're also able to reduce our net loss by impressive 84% year over year.

2025 年，我們迎來了一個強勁的開局，這得益於我們 ADAS 和機器人領域的出色發展勢頭以及穩健的財務業績。儘管受到典型季節性模式的影響，但我們第一季的 LiDAR 出貨量年增了兩倍多，達到近 20 萬台。這種爆炸性增長使我們的淨收入同比增長了近50％。由於出色的執行力、嚴謹的營運紀律和成本控制，我們的淨虧損也比去年同期減少了 84%。

Meanwhile, Hesai's leadership is being recognized across the industry. For the fourth consecutive year, Euro Intelligence, a highly respected independent recent form in Europe ranked Hesai the number one global leader in automotive liner market share. According to use 2024 analysis, we rank number one in three major categories that revenue with a 33% share of the global automotive lighter market, a 26% share of the global passenger car LiDAR market and a dominant 61% share of the global robotaxi market. These achievements speak volumes at a pace at which we innovate, scale, deliver and reinforce our position at the forefront of the industry.

同時，禾賽的領導力也正在得到整個產業的認可。歐洲權威獨立研究機構 Euro Intelligence 連續四年將禾賽評為全球汽車內襯市場份額第一。根據Use 2024的分析，我們在三大收入類別中均排名第一，佔全球汽車打火機市場33%的份額，全球乘用車雷射雷達市場26%的份額，以及全球自動駕駛計程車市場61%的主導份額。這些成就充分說明了我們創新、擴展、交付和鞏固行業領先地位的速度。

Next, let's dive into our latest business highlights starting with an accelerating momentum in ADAS market. In the 2025 Shanghai Auto Show, one of the world's largest and the most influential events, featured over 100 vehicle models with cutting-edge LiDAR technology. Hesai stood out with 12 OEMs at the show using our LiDAR technology. And among the 2025 production models making their debut, Hesai had the highest number of model integrations.

接下來，讓我們從 ADAS 市場的加速發展動能開始，深入了解我們最新的業務亮點。2025年上海車展是全球規模最大、影響力最強的車展之一，展出了超過100款搭載尖端雷射雷達技術的車型。禾賽在展會上脫穎而出，共有 12 家原始設備製造商採用我們的 LiDAR 技術。在首發亮相的2025年量產車型中，禾賽的車型整合數量最多。

The event shows that automakers are rapidly implementing intelligent driving across their lineups and that LiDAR is fast becoming a must-have for elevating safety in everyday passenger cars. Our ATX LiDAR is the embodiment of our core belief. Safety is not optional, (spoken in foreign language), never second-best, (spoken in foreign language) , and without limit, (spoken in foreign language). Designed to be affordable outdoor compact and offer best-in-class performance in its pricing category, ATX has been a true champion, driving the democratization of intelligent driving.

這項活動表明，汽車製造商正在其產品線中迅速實施智慧駕駛，並且 LiDAR 正迅速成為提升日常乘用車安全性的必備設備。我們的ATX LiDAR是我們核心信念的體現。安全不是可有可無的，（用外語說），永遠不是次好的，（用外語說），而且沒有限制，（用外語說）。ATX 的設計目標是成為價格實惠的戶外緊湊型車，並提供同類價格中最佳的性能，它是真正的冠軍，推動著智慧駕駛的民主化。

The sensor has already secured design with 12 major OEMs in May. Li Auto announced its entire L Series EV lineup will be integrated with our ATL LiDAR, a specialized variant of ATX, as standard configuration, delivering even sharper 3D perception. In addition, we recently secured a major design win with Zeekr to integrate ATX across several of its top-selling models, including a standard integration in the newly launched luxury shooting brake sedan, the Zeekr 007 GT.

該感測器已於 5 月與 12 家主要 OEM 達成設計協議。理想汽車宣布其整個 L 系列電動車陣容將整合我們的 ATL LiDAR（ATX 的專業版本）作為標準配置，提供更清晰的 3D 感知。此外，我們最近與 Zeekr 達成了一項重大設計協議，將 ATX 整合到其幾款暢銷車型中，包括新推出的豪華獵裝轎車 Zeekr 007 GT 的標準整合。

At the same time, ATX is extending its reach with extended partnerships, lending new design wins with Great Wall Motors' EV brand Aura, Chery's iCAR New Energy at lineup and the upcoming model from Geely, aiming at the mass market.

同時，ATX 正透過擴大合作夥伴關係拓展其業務範圍，與長城汽車的電動車品牌 Aura、奇瑞的 iCAR 新能源系列以及吉利即將推出的車型合作，以瞄準大眾市場。

With a rapidly growing roster of leading OEMs and flagship vehicles, ATX entered mass production in Q1 and made an immediate impact with close to 40,000 units shipped in its very first quarter on the market, (inaudible) models such as Leapmotor's D10, the industry's first vehicle offering advanced ADAS at RMB 120,000 price point with LiDAR hardware. According to public data, Leapmotor's D10 saw over 15,000 orders within just the first hour of its launch in March, with more than 70% opting for the LiDAR-equipped version, reflecting its strong appeal in the mass market. As part of our expanded strategic relationship with Leapmotor, we've secured a landmark order for 200,000 units of ZEPATX/LiDAR, which sets to power a wide range of Leapmotor's production model starting in 2025.

隨著領先 OEM 和旗艦車型陣容的迅速壯大，ATX 於第一季度投入量產，並立即產生了影響，在上市第一季度就售出了近 40,000 輛，（聽不清）例如零跑汽車的 D10 等車型，這是業內第一款以 120,000 元人民幣的價位提供先進的貨幣。公開數據顯示，零跑D10在3月上市僅一小時內就斬獲超過1.5萬份訂單，其中超過70%選擇了光達版本，展現出其強大的大眾市場號召力。作為我們與零跑車擴大策略合作關係的一部分，我們已獲得具有里程碑意義的 20 萬台 ZEPATX/LiDAR 訂單，該訂單將從 2025 年開始為零跑車的多款量產車型提供動力。

Internationally, we're also achieving breakthrough in addition to our exclusive design win with a top European OEM, a multiyear program across both ICE and EV platforms that extend into the next decade, we're excited to share that our business in Japan is rapidly gaining momentum. We recently secured a new proof-of-concept POC development project with a top global Tier 1 supplier headquartered in Japan. This achievement marks the first time they've joined our client portfolio and is a significant milestone in our global expansion serving as a powerful endorsement to our LiDAR technology in Japan.

在國際上，除了與歐洲頂級 OEM 達成獨家設計協議外，我們還取得了突破，這是一個涵蓋 ICE 和 EV 平台的多年期計劃，將延續到下一個十年，我們很高興地告訴大家，我們在日本的業務正在迅速發展。我們最近與總部位於日本的全球頂級一級供應商簽訂了一項新的概念驗證 POC 開發專案。這項成就標誌著他們首次加入我們的客戶組合，也是我們全球擴張的一個重要里程碑，有力地證明了我們在日本的 LiDAR 技術。

Hesai has been actively driving five POC programs with four top global OEMs and Tier 1 suppliers across Europe and Japan, three of these programs were successfully completed in the first quarter of 2025. The evaluation results from these programs will be shared with Hesai, fostering a deeper collaboration between both parties and further refine and enhance the market appeal of a product. While these POCs do not yet constitute pure design wins, they mark significant progress and we're encouraged by the positive momentum as we look ahead to the next phase of development.

禾賽科技正與全球四大頂級汽車製造商以及歐洲和日本的一級供應商積極推進五個POC項目，其中三個項目已於2025年第一季成功完成。這些項目的評估結果將與禾賽共享，促進雙方更深入的合作，進一步完善和提升產品的市場吸引力。雖然這些 POC 尚未構成純粹的設計勝利，但它們標誌著重大進展，展望下一階段的發展，我們對這種積極的勢頭感到鼓舞。

As domestic and international OEM demand continues to evolve across Level 2 of 3 and Level 4 platform, we took a major step forward this April with the launch of our game-changing Infinity Eye (spoken in foreign language) LiDAR solution, alongside three next-generation automotive grid LiDAR sensors. This new platform, in conjunction with these sensors, is available in three configurations: Infinity Eye A is dealed for high-level Level 4 autonomous systems. We achieved this by combining 4 AT1440 ultra-high definition main LiDARs with four solid state STX LiDARs acting as the blind-spot detector offering 360-degree coverage without blind spots.

隨著國內外 OEM 需求在 2 級、3 級和 4 級平台上不斷發展，我們於今年 4 月邁出了重要一步，推出了改變遊戲規則的 Infinity Eye（外語）LiDAR 解決方案以及三款下一代汽車網格 LiDAR 感測器。這個新平台與這些感測器結合，有三種配置可供選擇：Infinity Eye A 適用於高級 4 級自主系統。我們透過將 4 個 AT1440 超高清主光達與 4 個固態 STX 光達相結合作為盲點探測器來實現這一目標，從而提供 360 度覆蓋，無盲點。

Infinity Eye B is designed for Level 3 conditional autonomy. It features one new ETX main LiDAR, the world's longest range automotive LiDAR, which can detect up to 400 meters at 10% reflectivity. That, paired with two STX LiDARs for enhanced blind spot perception.

Infinity Eye B 專為 3 級條件自主而設計。它配備了一個新的 ETX 主光達，這是世界上距離最長的汽車光達，在 10% 的反射率下可以探測到 400 公尺遠。並與兩個 STX LiDAR 配對，以增強盲點感知。

And for Level 2 ADAS applications, Infinity Eye C brings the perfect balance of performance and cost efficiency using 1 compact yet powerful ATX main LiDAR. A core feature of this new platform is a shared architecture across our AT, ET and the FT series that features more than 85% component commonality. This means faster development, lower cost and seamless scalability. These industry-leading solutions are a direct testament to our products' technical strength and our holistic approach to satisfying customer needs.

對於 2 級 ADAS 應用，Infinity Eye C 使用 1 個緊湊但功能強大的 ATX 主 LiDAR 實現了性能和成本效率的完美平衡。這個新平台的核心特點是我們的 AT、ET 和 FT 系列採用共享架構，其元件通用性超過 85%。這意味著更快的開發、更低的成本和無縫的可擴展性。這些領先業界的解決方案直接證明了我們產品的技術實力以及我們滿足客戶需求的整體方法。

Beyond delivering superior performance, we created comprehensive solutions that integrate our cutting-edge technological capabilities with cost effectiveness. As a result of the strength, we have won design wins for over 120 vehicle models across 23 OEMs worldwide. Meanwhile, the broader robotics market represents tremendous opportunities, and our LiDAR solution sits at the core of this growth.

除了提供卓越的性能之外，我們還創建了將尖端技術能力與成本效益相結合的綜合解決方案。憑藉強大的實力，我們贏得了全球 23 家原始設備製造商的 120 多種車型的設計訂單。同時，更廣泛的機器人市場代表著巨大的機遇，而我們的 LiDAR 解決方案是這一成長的核心。

According to Goldman Sachs estimates, China's autonomous mobility market is set for explosive growth and is expected to expand over the next decade from just USD54 million in 2025 to USD47 billion by 2035. China is clearly on track to become the world's largest autonomous mobility market.

根據高盛估計，中國自動駕駛汽車市場將迎來爆炸式成長，預計未來十年將從 2025 年的 5,400 萬美元擴大到 2035 年的 470 億美元。中國顯然有望成為全球最大的自動駕駛汽車市場。

In recent months, we've been at the forefront of a new wave of robotaxi breakthroughs across China and beyond. As the main LiDAR supplier, we're hiring mass-produced next-generation fleet for Baidu Apollo Go, DiDi, Pony.ai, WeRide, some of which have already expanded onto the global stage. Today, we're proud to be the world's largest LiDAR supplier for robotaxis.

近幾個月來，我們一直處於中國乃至全球新一輪自動駕駛計程車突破浪潮的前沿。作為主要的光達供應商，我們正在為百度Apollo Go、滴滴出行、小馬智行、文遠知行等公司租用量產的下一代車隊，其中一些公司已經走向全球舞台。今天，我們很自豪能夠成為全球最大的自動駕駛計程車光達供應商。

We're also thrilled to be accelerating L4 autonomy across both long haul and last mile logistics recently. We signed new agreements to bring our ultra-high definition AT1440 sensor to CarboBox Level 4 robot. At the same time, we partnered with (inaudible) to scale its last-mile delivery operations and the (inaudible) to deploy its Level 4 vehicles. As Level 4 autonomy moves into commercial deployment, we're proud to be the LiDAR partner, helping customers scale smaller, safer and faster.

我們也很高興最近能夠加速長途和最後一哩物流領域的 L4 自主性。我們簽署了新的協議，將我們的超高清 AT1440 感測器應用於 CarboBox 4 級機器人。同時，我們與（聽不清楚）合作擴大其最後一英里的交付業務，並與（聽不清楚）合作部署其 4 級車輛。隨著 4 級自動駕駛進入商業部署，我們很榮幸成為 LiDAR 合作夥伴，幫助客戶實現更小、更安全、更快速的擴展。

Beyond transportation, LiDAR is unlocking a world of new possibilities, each bringing fresh opportunities to reimagine the everyday and drive incremental revenue and profit. We believe that every robot needs LiDAR as a core 3D sensor for precise positioning, mapping navigation and protection. Take our JT LiDAR, for example. It's been chosen for the next-generation robotic lawnmowers, delivering superior accuracy, stability and efficiency over traditional (inaudible) and the camera-based systems, especially in signal challenge or visually complex environments.

除了交通運輸之外，LiDAR 還開啟了一個充滿新可能性的世界，每個可能性都帶來了重新構想日常生活並推動增量收入和利潤的新機會。我們相信每個機器人都需要 LiDAR 作為核心 3D 感測器，以實現精確定位、測繪導航和保護。以我們的 JT LiDAR 為例。它已被選為下一代機器人割草機，與傳統（聽不見）和基於攝影機的系統相比，它具有更高的精度、穩定性和效率，特別是在信號挑戰或視覺複雜的環境中。

We also recently expanded our partnership with a leading smart home robotics company in China. Over the next 12 months, we expect to provide 300,000 JT units to this customer, generating meaningful revenue while helping transform everyday consumer products in intelligent LiDAR driven capabilities.

我們最近也擴大了與中國一家領先的智慧家庭機器人公司的合作關係。在接下來的 12 個月內，我們預計將為該客戶提供 30 萬台 JT 設備，創造可觀的收入，同時幫助將日常消費產品轉變為具有智慧 LiDAR 驅動功能的產品。

In summary, Q1 has laid a powerful foundation for our promises to be another transformative year for Hesai. We stand at a pivotal moment where breakthrough technology needs a real market readiness. With our unmatched technology leadership and scalable production, we're leading in the industry to shape the future of mobility and we're doing it alongside customers who share our mission to make an advanced perception and safety accessible for all.

總而言之，第一季為我們實現禾賽又一個變革之年的承諾奠定了堅實的基礎。我們正處於一個關鍵時刻，突破性技術需要真正的市場準備。憑藉我們無與倫比的技術領先地位和可擴展的生產，我們在行業中處於領先地位，塑造移動的未來，並與擁有共同使命的客戶一起努力，讓所有人都能獲得先進的感知和安全。

Before I hand over to Andrew, I want to share some exciting news. In early May, the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware has officially dismissed (inaudible) patent infringement case against us with no conditions, no financial settlement and no injunctive release. This brings an end to all existing IP actions against us and reaffirm the integrity of our technology. It's a powerful validation of the strength of our IP portfolio and the years of R&D that power it.

在將時間交給安德魯之前，我想分享一些令人興奮的消息。5月初，美國德拉瓦州地方法院正式駁回了（聽不清楚）針對我們的專利侵權訴訟，無條件、無財務和解、無禁令釋放。這將終止所有現有的針對我們的智慧財產權訴訟，並重申我們技術的完整性。這是對我們知識產權組合實力以及多年研發成果的有力驗證。

We are proud that our innovations have not only (inaudible) legal scrutiny but have also prevailed our deep passion for technology and our wavering commitment to R&D continue to give us a real edge, and no vehicle tactics can change that.

我們感到自豪的是，我們的創新不僅通過了（聽不清楚）法律審查，而且還戰勝了我們對技術的深厚熱情，我們對研發的堅定承諾繼續為我們帶來真正的優勢，沒有任何車輛策略可以改變這一點。

With that, I will now turn the call over to Andrew to share more details on our financial performance and outlook. Andrew, please go ahead.

現在，我將把電話交給安德魯，讓他分享有關我們的財務表現和前景的更多細節。安德魯，請繼續。

Thank you, David, and hello, everyone. I will now go through our operating and financial figures for the first quarter of 2025. For further details beyond what I covered on this call today, I encourage listeners to refer to our earnings release.

謝謝你，大衛，大家好。現在我將介紹我們 2025 年第一季的營運和財務數據。除了我今天在電話會議上所討論的內容之外，如果想了解更多詳細信息，我鼓勵聽眾參閱我們的收益報告。

Our Q1 results highlight strong sustained momentum. Total revenues saw 46% year over year, reaching CNY525.3 million or USD72.4 million. This impressive growth was fueled by exceptional shipment performance. Nearly 200,000 units were delivered during the quarter, more than triple the volume from the same period last year. Notably, this marks our third consecutive quarter of over 150% year-over-year shipment growth, a clear reflection of both surging market demand and the strength of our operational execution.

我們的第一季業績凸顯了強勁的持續發展動能。總營收年增 46%，達到 5.253 億元或 7,240 萬美元。這一令人印象深刻的成長得益於出色的出貨量表現。本季交付量接近 20 萬台，是去年同期的三倍多。值得注意的是，這標誌著我們連續第三個季度實現同比出貨量超過 150% 的成長，這清楚地反映了市場需求的激增和我們營運執行的強勁。

The surge in shipments was driven primarily by the rapid adoption of our ATX LiDAR among OEMs, with large-scale mass production commencing in Q1. At the same time, our JT LiDAR gained strong momentum with 45,000 units shipped in the first quarter alone, driving our robotics LiDAR shipments to nearly 50,000 units in the first quarter of 2025 with over 600% year-over-year growth.

出貨量激增的主要原因是我們的 ATX LiDAR 在原始設備製造商 (OEM) 中的快速採用，並於第一季開始大規模量產。同時，我們的JT LiDAR發展勢頭強勁，光是第一季就出貨了4.5萬台，推動我們的機器人LiDAR出貨量在2025年第一季達到近5萬台，年成長超過600%。

Meanwhile, our gross margin stood healthy at 42% in Q1 and we cut operating expenses by 9% year over year, reflecting the strength of our disciplined cost management. As a result, we narrowed our first quarter net loss by 84% year over year to CNY70.5 million or USD2.4 million while remaining non-GAAP profitable for the quarter, a performance that was significantly stronger than our earlier guidance and especially notable given that Q1 is typically a seasonally slower period.

同時，我們第一季的毛利率保持健康，達到 42%，且營運費用比去年同期削減了 9%，這體現了我們嚴格的成本管理的力度。因此，我們將第一季淨虧損年減了 84% 至 7,050 萬元人民幣或 240 萬美元，同時本季度仍保持非公認會計準則盈利，這一表現明顯強於我們先前的預期，尤其值得注意，因為第一季通常是季節性較淡的時期。

Looking ahead, we are encouraged by the strong momentum we built in Q1 and remain confident in our outlook for the rest of the year. For Q2, we are expecting net revenues of between CNY680 million or USD93.7 million and CNY720 million or USD99.2 million, which would be a 48% to 57% increase year over year. This forecast conservatively takes into account the current tariff environment as well as some expected short-term shifts in customer demand to Q3, mainly from U.S.-bound robotics LiDAR shipments. Despite these considerations, we are projecting total shipments of over 300,000 units in the second quarter, a substantial increase of almost 250% year over year. Even more encouraging we expect to reach GAAP breakeven in Q2 and remain firmly on track to hit our full year profitability targets despite navigating a dynamic tariff environment.

展望未來，我們對第一季建立的強勁勢頭感到鼓舞，並對今年剩餘時間的前景充滿信心。對於第二季度，我們預計淨收入將在 6.8 億元人民幣（或 9,370 萬美元）至 7.2 億元人民幣（或 9,920 萬美元）之間，年增 48% 至 57%。該預測保守地考慮了當前的關稅環境以及預期的第三季度客戶需求的一些短期轉變，主要來自對美國的機器人雷射雷達出貨量。儘管有這些因素，我們預計第二季總出貨量將超過 30 萬台，比去年同期大幅成長近 250%。更令人鼓舞的是，儘管面臨動態的關稅環境，我們預計第二季將達到 GAAP 損益平衡，並仍有望實現全年獲利目標。

As the global environment continues to evolve, we will remain proactive, refining our strategies to ensure minimal disruption to our long-term growth path. We are confident that our products remain highly competitive, even in a tariff-impacted landscape. And if cost adjustments are needed, we will take a measured approach to pricing always focused on delivering strong value to our customers. At the same time, we are prioritizing long-term resilience with strong momentum behind our overseas manufacturing plans to swiftly mitigate geopolitical risks and better serve our global customers. In May, we signed a lease for our new factory in Southeast Asia, a decisive first step forward.

隨著全球環境的不斷變化，我們將繼續積極主動，完善我們的策略，以確保對我們的長期成長道路的干擾最小。我們相信，即使在受到關稅影響的環境下，我們的產品仍將保持高度競爭力。如果需要調整成本，我們將採取審慎的定價方式，並始終專注於為客戶提供強大的價值。同時，我們優先考慮長期韌性，並為我們的海外製造計劃提供強勁動力，以迅速緩解地緣政治風險並更好地服務我們的全球客戶。五月，我們簽署了東南亞新工廠的租約，這是向前邁出的決定性的第一步。

To conclude, Q1 represents an exceptional start to 2025 with outstanding performance across revenue, shipments, margins and cost management. We have laid a solid foundation and are confident in our ability to sustain this positive momentum in the coming quarters.

總而言之，第一季代表著 2025 年的一個卓越開端，在收入、出貨量、利潤率和成本管理方面均表現出色。我們已經奠定了堅實的基礎，並有信心在未來幾季保持這種積極勢頭。

This concludes our prepared remarks today. Operator, we are now ready to take questions.

我們今天的準備演講到此結束。接線員，我們現在可以回答問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Tina Hou, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）高盛的 Tina Hou。

Congrats on the strong results and strong guidance. So my question is mainly regarding our full year guidance. Since we have seen -- I think, starting from the beginning of the year, we have seen a very strong take rate for LiDAR from both premium OEMs as well as mass market ones. So wondering if we're still maintaining our annual shipment guidance for 1.2 million to 1.5 million? Or do we see more like upside from there?

恭喜您取得的優異成績和強而有力的指導。所以我的問題主要涉及我們的全年指導。我認為，從今年年初開始，我們就看到高端 OEM 和大眾市場對 LiDAR 的接受率都非常高。那麼想知道我們是否仍維持 120 萬至 150 萬的年度出貨量指引嗎？或者我們能從中看到更多好處？

And also related to that, as the ADAS LiDAR portion becomes larger for our entire portfolio, how do we see the trajectory for our gross margin? And where could 2025 total company gross margin end up? Yes, that's my main question.

與此相關的是，隨著 ADAS LiDAR 在我們整個產品組合中的佔比越來越大，我們如何看待毛利率的走勢？那麼 2025 年公司總毛利率最終會達到多少呢？是的，這是我的主要問題。

Tina, thanks for the question. Let me take this first. Regarding our 2025 full year guidance, despite the evolving tariff environment, I think we are still maintaining our 2025 revenue guidance at CNY3 billion to CNY3.5 billion, the total shipment remained at 1.2 million to 1.5 million and 40% in gross margin with [CNY200 million to CNY350 million] GAAP net profit for 2025. So we maintain our 2025 full year guidance unchanged.

蒂娜，謝謝你的提問。我先來看一下這個。關於我們 2025 年全年指引，儘管關稅環境不斷變化，我認為我們仍將 2025 年收入指引維持在 30 億元人民幣至 35 億元人民幣，總出貨量保持在 120 萬至 150 萬輛，毛利率保持在 40%，2025 年 GAAP 淨幣為 GAAP 億元。因此，我們維持 2025 年全年指引不變。

I would also like to share some information about our Q2 guidance. In the upcoming quarter -- in the current quarter, our revenue is expected to reach about CNY680 billion to RMB 720 million, strong year-over-year growth of about 48% to 57%, driven by the rapid adoption of LiDAR in passenger vehicles in China. This forecast conservatively taking into account the current tariff environment as well as some expected short-term shifts in customer demand to Q3, mainly from the U.S.-bound robotics LiDAR shipments. In Q1, we shipped about nearly 200,000 units in total, up over 200% year-on-year. We expect the shipments to continue accelerating through the year, with 2Q shipments reaching over 300,000 units.

我還想分享一些有關我們第二季指導的資訊。在即將到來的季度——即本季度，我們的收入預計將達到約 6800 億元人民幣至 7.2 億元人民幣，同比強勁增長約 48% 至 57%，這得益於中國乘用車快速採用雷射雷達。這項預測較為保守，考慮到了當前的關稅環境以及預計的第三季客戶需求的短期轉變，主要來自對美國的機器人雷射雷達出貨量。第一季度，我們總共出貨了近20萬台，較去年同期成長200%以上。我們預計全年出貨量將持續加速成長，第二季出貨量將達到 30 萬台以上。

The ATX LiDAR, which has a market price at around $200, entered the mass production in Q1 and is ramping up shipments in Q2, expected to account for about 50% to 60% of total deliveries in Q2. With all these ATX LiDAR shipments in consideration, our GP margin is expected to remain healthy at around 40%. As you can tell from our Q1 gross profit margin, with the ATX ramping up, our quarter-over-quarter margin still enjoyed a moderate improvement. Therefore, we are still very positive about reaching the full year gross profit margin target.

ATX雷射雷達市場售價約200美元，已於第一季量產，第二季出貨量正在加速，預計佔第二季總出貨量的50%至60%左右。考慮到所有這些 ATX LiDAR 的出貨量，我們的毛利率預計將保持在 40% 左右的健康水準。從我們第一季的毛利率可以看出，隨著ATX的提升，我們的季度環比利潤率仍然有適度的提升。因此，我們對實現全年毛利率目標仍然非常有信心。

On the bottom line, despite the typical seasonality in Q1, we achieved a non-GAAP profitability and significantly narrowed our GAAP net loss by 84% for Q1, well above our previous guidance. We anticipate a further quarter-over-quarter improvement in Q2, reaching breakeven point on a GAAP level.

總體而言，儘管第一季出現了典型的季節性因素，但我們仍實現了非 GAAP 盈利，並將第一季度的 GAAP 淨虧損大幅縮小了 84%，遠高於我們先前的預期。我們預計第二季業績將進一步環比改善，達到 GAAP 水準的損益平衡點。

That's my responses to the questions of Tina. Hopefully, that can address the question you just mentioned.

以上就是我對Tina問題的回答。希望這可以解答您剛才提到的問題。

Yes, that's very clear.

是的，非常清楚。

Jessie Lo, Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Jessie Lo。

My question is regarding to the ADAS LiDAR ASP trend. As we currently supply ATX or ATL and also existing ATP product to our clients, and then after we migrate to AT1440 and also ET, and even potentially like next year for the overseas clients, how do you foresee this ADAS LiDAR ASP trend?

我的問題是關於 ADAS LiDAR ASP 趨勢。由於我們目前向客戶提供 ATX 或 ATL 以及現有的 ATP 產品，然後在我們遷移到 AT1440 和 ET 之後，甚至可能在明年為海外客戶提供產品，您如何預見這種 ADAS LiDAR ASP 趨勢？

Thank you, Jessie. Regarding we -- starting from Q1, since our product mix has started to shift meaningfully with the ramp-up of ATX mass production our blended average ASP will be naturally brought down. But it doesn't tell the full story, it's more helpful to look at the ASP volume trends by products. For 2025, we have 3 variations of the AT series in production. First, our ATP LiDAR will see a moderate ASP decline in the low teens year over year, reaching around $350 in year 2025.

謝謝你，傑西。關於我們——從第一季開始，由於我們的產品組合隨著 ATX 大規模生產的增加而開始發生重大變化，我們的混合平均 ASP 自然會下降。但它並不能說明全部情況，以產品查看 ASP 銷售趨勢更有幫助。到 2025 年，我們將生產 3 種 AT 系列車型。首先，我們的 ATP LiDAR 的平均售價將比去年同期溫和下降，在 2025 年達到 350 美元左右。

The ATP is expected to account for a low 6-figure shipment volume in 2025 with production scheduled to conclude by end of this year. Then we will have the Ultra House performance AT LiDAR built for A3 application -- L3 applications, which carries a higher ASP of about $500 but is being shipped in relatively smaller volume this year. We expect large-scale shipments of eight of these high-performance LiDAR to ramp up starting 2026.

預計 ATP 2025 年的出貨量將達到六位數，生產計畫於今年底完成。然後，我們將推出專為 A3 應用（L3 應用）打造的 Ultra House 性能 AT LiDAR，其平均售價較高，約為 500 美元，但今年的出貨量相對較少。我們預計從 2026 年開始，八台高性能光達的大規模出貨量將會增加。

Lastly, our ATX LiDAR, most cost-efficient compact version with a market price at $200, it started mass production in Q1 and has already adopted -- has been adopted as a standard feature for many popular car models. For large volume orders, customers typically receive a modest discount of the market price, a common practice across the supply chain industry. While the ATX brings down the blended ASP, it opens up much larger volume potential. We project ATX to shift in the high 6-digit range, possibly up to 1 million units in year 2025. At present, we do not anticipate new market products pricing another half of the ATX.

最後，我們的 ATX LiDAR 是最具成本效益的緊湊型版本，市場價格為 200 美元，它於第一季開始量產，並且已被採用——已成為許多流行車型的標準功能。對於大量訂單，客戶通常會獲得市場價格的適度折扣，這是整個供應鏈行業的常見做法。雖然 ATX 降低了混合 ASP，但它釋放了更大的容量潛力。我們預測 ATX 的銷售量將達到 6 位數的高位，到 2025 年可能達到 100 萬台。目前，我們預期新市場產品的價格不會達到 ATX 的另一半。

For the foreseeable future, the ATX will remain our flagship long range from LiDAR, offering high cost performances.

在可預見的未來，ATX 仍將是我們的旗艦長距離 LiDAR 產品，具有高性價比。

Overall, while the mix is shifting, we believe LiDAR content per vehicle will remain stable in the long run given its irreplaceable safety and functional value. With the adoption of L3 driving the need for multiple LiDAR units per vehicle to enable 360-degree coverage, we expect LiDAR content per vehicle to stay in the range of $500 to $1,000. Jessie, that's my response to your question.

總體而言，雖然結構正在發生變化，但我們相信，鑑於其不可替代的安全性和功能價值，從長遠來看，每輛車的 LiDAR 含量將保持穩定。隨著 L3 的採用推動每輛車對多個 LiDAR 單元的需求，以實現 360 度覆蓋，我們預計每輛車的 LiDAR 內容將保持在 500 至 1,000 美元的範圍內。傑西，這就是我對你的問題的回答。

And then I have a second question regarding our capacity and CapEx. So earlier in the last conference call, we mentioned that towards end of this year, we will be expanding our capacity in domestically to 2 million units. So could you share some of the progress on that capacity expansion? And then on top of that, you also mentioned that we just signed a lease in DBAsia. And then what's currently like CapEx will look like for the Southeast Asia capacity and also the total production units and potential like profitability from this overseas plants.

然後我還有第二個問題，關於我們的產能和資本支出。因此，在上次電話會議中，我們提到到今年年底，我們將把國內產能擴大到 200 萬台。那麼您能分享一下產能擴張方面的一些進展嗎？除此之外，您還提到我們剛剛在 DBAsia 簽署了租約。那麼，目前的資本支出將是東南亞產能以及總生產單位和海外工廠的潛在獲利能力。

Okay. So as of now, as you just mentioned, we have about 2 million production capacity guided by end of this year. To give you an update on that, we are building up new production lines starting from Q1, which will begin mass production in Q3. Therefore, this 2 million production capacity is being installed on track. Also, on top of that, we have more production lines in the planning stage, which might start building up in this year, and it typically takes us 4 to 5 months to set up a new production line in China.

好的。因此，正如您剛才提到的，截至目前，我們預計到今年年底的生產能力約為 200 萬。為了向您提供最新信息，我們從第一季開始建立新的生產線，並將於第三季開始大規模生產。因此，這200萬的產能安裝正在按計畫進行。此外，我們還有更多的生產線處於規劃階段，可能會在今年開始建設，通常我們在中國建立一條新生產線需要 4 到 5 個月的時間。

Our operations are very lean and efficient.

我們的營運非常精簡和有效率。

Meanwhile, I would also want to comment on our overseas expansion plans. We are making good progress on our overseas manufacturing plants, which are a key part of strengthening our long-term resilience under the current geopolitical environment. To better manage the risk and support our global customers more effectively, we have signed a lease contract for our new overseas factories in May, making a key step forward. We plan to break ground later this year and expect the facility to be up and running by late 2026 or early 2027 to support the demand of our overseas customers. Our highly automated production technology enables us to set up an overseas production line with controlled and efficient CapEx.

同時，我也想評論一下我們的海外擴張計畫。我們的海外製造工廠正在取得良好進展，這是在當前地緣政治環境下增強我們長期韌性的關鍵部分。為了更好地管理風險，更有效地支持我們的全球客戶，我們於5月份簽署了新的海外工廠的租賃合同，邁出了關鍵的一步。我們計劃於今年稍後破土動工，預計該設施將於 2026 年底或 2027 年初投入運營，以滿足我們海外客戶的需求。我們高度自動化的生產技術使我們能夠建立具有可控且高效的資本支出的海外生產線。

To summarize, we expect that our 2025 CapEx should be around USD30 million to USD50 million in total.

總而言之，我們預計 2025 年的資本支出總額應在 3,000 萬至 5,000 萬美元左右。

Go ahead, David.

繼續吧，大衛。

Yes, this is David. I want to give you some insight on the ASP. So there are really 2 ways to reduce or improve the cost structure of our products. The first one, I think it's by design. It's really the integrated circuits, ASIC, and it's really the innovation.

是的，這是大衛。我想讓您對 ASP 有一些了解。因此，實際上有兩種方法可以降低或改善我們產品的成本結構。第一個，我認為這是設計好的。它實際上是集成電路、ASIC，它實際上是創新。

So for each generation, obviously, we designed that roughly 2 years ahead of the shipment and then -- for domestic market. And the way we look at it is that, okay, we think about the volume, we think about where we should reach at the price, and we sort of reverse that back into the cost structure. And by that time, we already factor in how many were expected to ship for the lifetime of the product, at least for the first 2, 3 years. So that's why if you look at the results of the ASP, it's very predictable, right? It starts with above $500 and slowly decline, but it's within the expectation because we already designed the cost structure based around that.

因此，對於每一代產品，顯然我們都會在發貨前大約兩年進行設計，然後面向國內市場。我們看待這個問題的方式是，好吧，我們考慮數量，我們考慮我們應該達到的價格，然後我們將其反轉回成本結構。那時，我們已經考慮到產品生命週期內預計要出貨的數量，至少是前 2、3 年。所以如果你看一下 ASP 的結果，你會發現它是非常可預測的，對嗎？它從 500 美元以上開始慢慢下降，但這在預期之內，因為我們已經圍繞此設計了成本結構。

The second reason is that it's still the economies of scale. As you can see, the ATX and ATL product, where we're shipping this year, the volume is much higher than ATP, and then it will grow to another level next year with very high certainty. That's where we see slow decline of the ASP similarly with products like ETX. But you will not be able to expect a decline. That's all linked to the range of halving that simply because, if you look at the original design architecture of such a product, it will have a slow decline on ASP, but it doesn't have the room to continue to the 50% level that isn't designed.

第二個原因還是規模經濟。正如您所看到的，我們今年出貨的 ATX 和 ATL 產品的銷售量遠高於 ATP，明年將非常確定地成長到另一個水平。我們也看到 ETX 等產品的平均售價正在緩慢下降。但你無法預料到會出現下降。這一切都與減半的範圍有關，因為如果你看一下這種產品的原始設計架構，它的平均售價會緩慢下降，但沒有空間繼續下降到未設計的 50% 的水平。

So that's how we see the price will change down the road.

這就是我們所看到的未來​​價格的變化。

Your next question comes from Tim Hsiao from Morgan Stanley.

您的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Tim Hsiao。

I've got 2 questions. The first 1 is about the competition because we noticed that (inaudible) like peers, is reportedly winning the project from the brands like Xiaomi and Leapmotor, which I think both are Hesai's key clients. So is the management team concerned about the potential reshuffles as I think your company used to be the sole supplier to the top-notch car EV makers like Xiaomi? And what's the implication to our orders and the potential price competition? That's my first question.

我有兩個問題。第一個是關於競爭，因為我們注意到（聽不清楚）像同行一樣，據報道贏得了小米和零跑等品牌的項目，我認為這兩個都是禾賽的主要客戶。那麼，管理團隊是否擔心潛在的改組，因為我認為貴公司曾經是小米等頂級電動車製造商的唯一供應商？這對我們的訂單和潛在的價格競爭有何影響？這是我的第一個問題。

Okay. Thank you, Tim. We do not want to comment on our market speculations because ultimately, orders and official announcements speak for themselves. The LiDAR industry has been a very competitive arena since its inception. And currently, only few players possess massive production capabilities.

好的。謝謝你，提姆。我們不想對我們的市場猜測發表評論，因為最終訂單和官方公告不言自明。自誕生以來，LiDAR 產業一直是競爭非常激烈的領域。而目前擁有大規模生產能力的企業屈指可數。

Hesai's products have earned a strong reputation for the performance, quality and reliability over time. Notably, we have observed a consistent trend of our ADAS customers switch from our competitors, which underscores Hesai's robust competitive edge. I would say winning contract doesn't mean mass production and doesn't mean they can generate a meaningful revenue from these contracts.

禾賽的產品以其卓越的性能、優良的品質和可靠的可靠性贏得了良好的聲譽。值得注意的是，我們觀察到我們的 ADAS 客戶從競爭對手那裡轉移的趨勢持續存在，這凸顯了禾賽強大的競爭優勢。我想說贏得合約並不意味著大規模生產，也不意味著他們可以從這些合約中獲得可觀的收入。

Strategically, we chose to collaborate with high-quality promising clients to ensure a reasonable pricing and maintain healthy financials. Our customer bases comprise top-tier OEMs, reflecting our commitment to quality partners. Unlike the Internet industry, the LiDAR vector requires long-term perspective. Our goal is to build a sustainable industry, avoiding short-term gains at the expense of long-term viability. Achieving a win-win scenario with our clients is our ultimate objective.

從策略上講，我們選擇與優質有前景的客戶合作，以確保合理的定價並保持健康的財務狀況。我們的客戶群包括頂級 OEM，這反映了我們對優質合作夥伴的承諾。與網路產業不同，LiDAR向量需要長遠的視角。我們的目標是建立一個可持續發展的產業，避免以犧牲長期生存能力為代價來獲取短期利益。與客戶實現雙贏是我們的最終目標。

This is David. I think it's kind of unfair for Andrew to ask Andrew to comment on competitors, especially (inaudible). So maybe I'll offer some of my market information. I imagine you are aware of that, which you mentioned. I think it's -- the speculation is always maybe difficult for an existing vendor like us to prove the negative.

這是大衛。我認為讓安德魯評論競爭對手有點不公平，尤其是（聽不清楚）。所以也許我會提供一些我的市場資訊。我想您已經意識到了您提到的這一點。我認為——對於像我們這樣的現有供應商來說，猜測可能總是很難證明其否定。

I think it's in every customer's best interest to continue to understand what's available on the market. And they do. Everyone does that. It's just a common practice. But in the end, you have to provide your unique value proposition for your quality, your performance in enterprising as a combo, especially when you already are an incumbent player for OEMs.

我認為繼續了解市場上有哪些產品符合每個客戶的最佳利益。他們確實這麼做了。每個人都這麼做。這只是一種常見的做法。但最終，您必須為您的品質、您作為一個組合的進取表現提供獨特的價值主張，特別是當您已經是 OEM 的現任參與者時。

There's a lot of inertia in this in terms of the data compatibility. And also their vehicles are designed around your sensor, so there is a pretty high bar for a second vendor to be able to step in, especially during a phase where everybody is rushing to upgrade their products to the smaller, better sensor to take it to the next level.

就資料相容性而言，這其中存在著許多慣性。而且他們的車輛是圍繞感測器設計的，因此第二家供應商的介入門檻相當高，特別是在每個人都急於將他們的產品升級到更小、更好的感測器以將其提升到新水平的階段。

So the answer is we're actually aware of it. In the end, you should refer to the announcement of the OEM to know what's really going on. And I would not just make decisions or circulation based on rumors.

所以答案是我們確實意識到了這一點。最後，您應該參考 OEM 的公告來了解實際情況。我不會僅根據謠言就做出決定或傳播。

My second question is about the new products because during the presentation, I think David also mentioned about new solutions, the Infinity Eye. So just want to get a little bit more color about when do you think the shipments or mass reduction will start and the potential coin rings. And of course, the value content would be much higher, but do you have the rough idea about the rough range of content and the margin for this new solution. Yes, that's my second question.

我的第二個問題是關於新產品的，因為在演示過程中，我認為 David 也提到了新的解決方案 Infinity Eye。因此，我只是想更詳細地了解您認為何時開始發貨或大規模減產以及潛在的硬幣價格。當然，價值內容會高得多，但您是否大致了解這個新解決方案的內容範圍和利潤率。是的，這是我的第二個問題。

Okay. I'll first provide like a response to the question about our launch of Infinity Eye. We are very proud to be the first provider of full stack L2 to L4 LiDAR solutions. We have seen very encouraging feedback from our OEM customers since the launch of our new Infinity Eye. One of its key strengths is its flexibility.

好的。我首先會回答有關我們推出 Infinity Eye 的問題。我們非常自豪能夠成為第一家提供全端 L2 至 L4 LiDAR 解決方案的供應商。自從我們推出新款 Infinity Eye 以來，我們從 OEM 客戶那裡得到了非常令人鼓舞的回饋。其主要優勢之一是其靈活性。

Infinity Eye A, B and C are built on a shared architecture but are tailored to different customer needs and system setups. Depending on the OEM's vehicle platform and software stack, each configuration can support anything from L2 all the way to L4 autonomous driving.

Infinity Eye A、B 和 C 建立在共享架構上，但根據不同的客戶需求和系統設定進行客製化。根據 OEM 的車輛平台和軟體堆疊，每個配置都可以支援從 L2 一直到 L4 自動駕駛的任何功能。

All of our primary LiDAR sensors deliver outstanding performance, but each is optimized for specific technical priorities. The AT1440, both the world's highest angular resolution, delivering ultrahigh definition, image-level point cloud. The ETX, which is a core part of our Infinity IP solutions is engineered for superior ranging capabilities, offering best-in-class detection distances. Both AT1440 and ETX are high-performance LiDARs, each priced above $500. The ATX, which is a core component for Infinity Eye C, priced around $200, represents our cost-effective solutions, combining compact design with robust performances.

我們所有的主要 LiDAR 感測器都具有出色的性能，但每個感測器都針對特定的技術優先順序進行了最佳化。AT1440 具有世界上最高的角分辨率，可提供超高清、影像級點雲。ETX 是我們 Infinity IP 解決方案的核心部分，具有卓越的測距能力，可提供一流的偵測距離。AT1440 和 ETX 都是高性能光達，每款售價都在 500 美元以上。ATX 是 Infinity Eye C 的核心組件，售價約為 200 美元，代表了我們經濟高效的解決方案，將緊湊的設計與強大的性能相結合。

The choice among them depends on the specific autonomous driving capabilities of our customers. All 3 models, i.e., AT1440, ETX and ATX are suitable for L2 to L4 applications and have all secured series production design wins. These design wins are a strong validation of the Infinity Eye solutions adaptability and technical differentiation across our LiDAR portfolio. And as we repetitively conveyed our message to the market, though we have different price ranges for our different products, but when we design the pricing, the architecture of the product and also the cost components of the product, we always aim a healthy and relatively stable gross margin targets.

其中的選擇取決於我們客戶的特定自動駕駛能力。所有 3 種型號，即 AT1440、ETX 和 ATX 均適用於 L2 至 L4 應用，並且均已獲得系列生產設計勝利。這些設計的勝利有力地證明了 Infinity Eye 解決方案在我們的 LiDAR 產品組合中的適應性和技術差異化。正如我們反覆向市場傳達的訊息，雖然我們不同產品的價格範圍不同，但在設計定價、產品架構以及產品成本組成部分時，我們始終瞄準健康且相對穩定的毛利率目標。

Therefore, as you can tell from our historical gross profit margin performances, I would like assure you that the gross profit margin will not fluctuate significantly in the future due to the change of product mix with this new products launching.

因此，正如您從我們的歷史毛利率表現中所看到的，我想向您保證，由於新產品的推出導致產品結構發生變化，未來的毛利率不會大幅波動。

Great. Congratulations on the solid results again.

偉大的。再次恭喜您取得堅實的成績。

Your next question comes from Bing Qui from (inaudible).

你的下一個問題來自 Bing Qui（聽不清楚）。

This is (inaudible). Congratulations on the strong results and guidance. So my question is about the tariffs. Could you please share some details about the impact of tariff on pricing, supply chain, et cetera, and how to deal with this problem?

這是（聽不清楚）。恭喜您取得的優異成績和指導。我的問題是關於關稅的。您能否詳細介紹關稅對定價、供應鏈等的影響以及如何應對這個問題？

Okay. We are closely monitoring the situations of tariff, which is changing on a daily basis, and have conducted a thorough analysis of the potential impact. While the tariffs do introduce certain cost considerations, we believe that the impact on our overall business will be limited for 3 primary reasons. First, our direct exposure is very limited. The U.S.

好的。我們密切關注著每天都在變化的關稅情況，並對其潛在影響進行了徹底的分析。雖然關稅確實會帶來一定的成本考慮，但我們認為，由於三個主要原因，其對我們整體業務的影響將是有限的。首先，我們的直接接觸非常有限。美國

market is projected to account for only 10% of our total revenue in year 2025. Secondly, only 5% of our total revenue or 50% of the revenue from U.S. is under the so-called DDP terms or delivered duty paid models, where we, as the seller, bear the cost of tariffs. And thirdly, our continued focus on operational efficiency and cost control and also our market position give us the flexibility to effectively manage external challenges like those.

預計到 2025 年該市場僅占我們總收入的 10%。其次，我們總收入中只有 5% 或來自美國的收入中只有 50% 是按照所謂的 DDP 條款或完稅後交貨模式獲得的，在這種模式下，我們作為賣方承擔關稅成本。第三，我們持續專注於營運效率和成本控制以及我們的市場地位，這使我們能夠靈活有效地應對此類外部挑戰。

And we have a relatively strong market position against our customers. Moreover, we have several levers, including adjusting the pricing strategies and efficiency gains, which will help absorb or offset these tariff-related costs. When we provide -- also, when we provided our profitability outlook in our last earnings call, which is March this year, we had already assumed a 45% tariff as our base case scenario. We have seen some customers front-loaded or rescheduled their orders due to the uncertainty around future policy changes, especially after April. But depending on the current shipments and the delivery schedules, this may shift some of our revenue from Q2 to Q3.

而我們相對於客戶而言擁有相對強大的市場地位。此外，我們還有幾種手段，包括調整定價策略和提高效率，這將有助於吸收或抵消這些與關稅相關的成本。當我們提供——此外，當我們在上次收益電話會議（即今年 3 月）上提供盈利前景時，我們已經假設 45% 的關稅作為基本情況。我們看到一些客戶由於未來政策變化的不確定性而提前或重新安排了訂單，尤其是在四月之後。但根據目前的出貨量和交貨時間表，這可能會將我們的部分收入從第二季轉移到第三季。

That's also part of the reason why our Q2 guidance is presented as a range.

這也是我們將第二季指引以範圍呈現的原因之一。

For the full year, we are keeping our revenue guidance unchanged at CNY3 billion to CNY3.5 billion. We haven't seen our major customers canceling their orders due to these tariff changes. For the full year targets, our gross margin target remains healthy, around 40%, and we expect the current impact from tariffs on our full year gross margin and profitability to be immaterial.

對於全年，我們維持營收預期不變，為人民幣 30 億元至 35 億元。我們還沒有看到主要客戶因為這些關稅變化而取消訂單。對於全年目標，我們的毛利率目標仍然保持健康，約為 40%，我們預計關稅對我們全年毛利率和盈利能力的當前影響並不大。

Yes, I want to also add to the tariff topic. So first is, obviously, a small percentage of our revenue today already from the U.S. And there are really 2 types of customers when they face the tariff. A small part will treat this as a -- when it was really high and they treat this as unacceptable. So they just pause.

是的，我也想補充一下關稅話題。首先，顯然，我們今天的一小部分收入已經來自美國。當面臨關稅時，實際上有兩種類型的客戶。一小部分人會將此視為——當它真的很高時，他們會認為這是不可接受的。所以他們就暫停了。

They're not canceling because they couldn't find an alternative, but they were pausing for some time until they came back down to where it is now. The other part is actually front loading more because they realize that there is risk down the road that it could go back up again or facing other challenges and they definitely don't see an easier solution just to switch over at all. So they actually try to buy more. And surprise, they're okay, and they feel like it's a reasonable number, especially now they just wanted to make sure the continuity of their supply chain is guaranteed. So that's why we also see some of the customers placing, let's call that, for lack of better word, revenge orders as we see both type of customers.

他們取消並不是因為找不到替代方案，而是暫停了一段時間，直到回到現在的狀態。另一部分人實際上是在前期投入更多資金，因為他們意識到未來存在風險，價格可能會再次上漲或面臨其他挑戰，而且他們絕對看不到簡單的解決方案，只需轉換即可。因此他們實際上會嘗試購買更多。令人驚訝的是，他們覺得沒問題，而且他們覺得這是一個合理的數字，尤其是現在他們只是想確保其供應鏈的連續性得到保證。因此，我們也看到一些客戶下了訂單，我們稱之為報復性訂單，因為我們看到這兩種類型的客戶。

Jia Lou, BOCI.

樓佳，中銀國際。

My first question is regarding our new ADAS product ATL and ATX. We noticed that our key client Li Auto newly launched models, all integrated Hesai's ATL LiDAR, which is a customized version based on ATX. But most other OEM customers all choose the standardized ATX version. So for Hesai, is there any difference between ATL and ATX in terms of ASP costs and gross margin? And in future, is this standardized ATX will remain as mainstream solutions for OEM customers or more OEMs will follow Li Auto to adopt a specialized one?

我的第一個問題是關於我們的新 ADAS 產品 ATL 和 ATX。我們注意到，我們專注於客戶理想汽車新推出的車型，全部搭載了禾賽的ATL光達，是基於ATX的定製版本。但其他大部分OEM客戶都選擇標準化的ATX版本。那麼對禾賽來說，ATL 和 ATX 在 ASP 成本和毛利率方面有什麼區別嗎？而未來這種標準化的ATX是否會繼續作為OEM客戶的主流解決方案，還是會有更多OEM廠商效仿理想汽車採用專門的解決方案？

Yes. I'll just give some after background of this product. It's a variant, but it's an enhanced and advanced version with enhanced resolution and a few other things. The main idea behind that is that, well, we wanted to keep the standardized platform. For a specific customer like Li Auto, they are very particular about the specific advanced functions of the LiDAR because that's what they see as needed as they develop their AD MAX platform.

是的。我僅介紹一下該產品的一些背景。它是一種變體，但它是一種增強和高級版本，具有增強的分辨率和一些其他功能。背後的主要想法是，我們想保留標準化的平台。對於像理想汽車這樣的特定客戶，他們對 LiDAR 的特定高級功能非常講究，因為這是他們在開發 AD MAX 平台時認為需要的。

So in a way, it's a customized version for them to best match the requirements of their software.

因此從某種程度上來說，這是一個為他們量身定制的版本，以最好地滿足他們的軟體要求。

In an ideal world, maybe every customer have something look differently than others want. But in Li Auto's specific case, we have a very particular requirements that's above the standard ATX and we were able to meet that. And so that's the nature of such a product. And we don't have additional information on the price or the gross margin, but it remains largely in line with the typical platform.

在理想世界中，也許每個顧客想要的東西都與其他人想要的東西不同。但在理想汽車的具體情況下，我們有一個非常特殊的要求，高於標準 ATX，我們能夠滿足這項要求。這就是這種產品的本質。我們沒有關於價格或毛利率的更多信息，但它與典型平台基本一致。

Okay. Got it. And my second question is related to the robotaxi LiDAR. Recently, we see that Baidu, DiDi, Pony, all adopt our ADAS product AT series to replace the traditional mechanic LiDAR for cost reduction. Just wondering the usage of ADAS LiDAR by these L4 players, the transitional temporary solution for robotaxi industry.

好的。知道了。我的第二個問題與自動駕駛計程車雷射雷達有關。最近我們看到百度、滴滴、小馬等都採用了我們的ADAS產品AT系列來取代傳統的機械式雷射雷達，以降低成本。只是想知道這些 L4 玩家如何使用 ADAS LiDAR，這是機器人出租車行業的過渡臨時解決方案。

Looking ahead, will Hesai will develop a specialized product series for robotaxi or will continue to sell ADAS LiDAR later to these players?

展望未來，禾賽是否會針對Robotaxi開發專門的產品系列，或者稍後會繼續向這些玩家出售ADAS雷射雷達？

Okay. I'm glad that you asked this question as Hesai is the largest robotaxi LiDAR supplier globally with 60% to 70% market share. Our main LiDAR products are widely used by all the top robotaxi players in China and outside China. Historically, robotaxi operators have used the mechanical spinning LiDARs for small fleet testing and operations. However, recent trends in China indicates an urgent need for scalability in the robotaxi fleets.

好的。我很高興你問了這個問題，因為禾賽是全球最大的自動駕駛計程車雷射雷達供應商，擁有 60% 到 70% 的市場份額。我們主要的光達產品被國內外所有頂級自動駕駛計程車公司廣泛使用。從歷史上看，自動駕駛計程車業者一直使用機械旋轉光達進行小型車隊的測試和營運。然而，中國最近的趨勢表明，自動駕駛計程車車隊迫切需要可擴展性。

By adopting our flagship ADAS LiDAR on robotaxi, our customers achieve a better balance between price and the performance of the sensors, enabling faster fleet growth and helping them become closer to profitability. As a result, we are expecting to receive significantly larger LiDAR orders for use in robotaxi for the years to come.

透過在自動駕駛計程車上採用我們的旗艦 ADAS LiDAR，我們的客戶在價格和感測器性能之間實現了更好的平衡，從而實現了更快的車隊成長並幫助他們更接近獲利。因此，我們預計未來幾年將收到大量用於自動駕駛計程車的 LiDAR 訂單。

Historically, on the robotaxi side in China, we expect that moving from smaller scale, high-priced mechanical LiDARs to larger-scale ADAS LiDARs will boost our revenue and gross profit in the long run as the robotaxi business grows in China. Meanwhile, global robotaxi companies continue to rely on mechanical spinning LiDARs to ensure the highest sophistication of their AD solutions. Take this, for example, from the earnings, we are the exclusive supplier to a top global robotaxi player, and their fleet has already racked up nearly 1 million autonomous miles in 2024. Now they are gearing up for a bigger expansion in 2025, scaling their self-driving fleets in a big way, all powered by our Panda series LiDARs.

從歷史上看，在中國的自動駕駛計程車方面，隨著中國自動駕駛計程車業務的增長，我們預計從小規模、高價格的機械光達轉向更大規模的 ADAS 雷射雷達將在長期內提高我們的收入和毛利。同時，全球自動駕駛計程車公司繼續依賴機械旋轉雷射雷達來確保其自動駕駛解決方案的最高水準。以收益為例，我們是全球頂級自動駕駛計程車公司的獨家供應商，到 2024 年，他們的車隊已經累積了近 100 萬英里。現在，他們正準備在 2025 年實現更大規模的擴張，大規模擴大其自動駕駛車隊，所有這些都由我們的 Panda 系列 LiDAR 提供支援。

With the robotaxi market rapidly advancing towards large-scale commercialization, our technology plays a crucial role in enabling safe and reliable autonomous driving -- autonomous transportation. Also, when our ATX128 or ATX type of LiDAR to be deployed in the robotaxi, these ASIC-based semisolid-state design provides a more cost-efficient solution. However, due to its 120-degree horizontal field of view, a robotaxi typically requires three to four units of our AT series LiDAR to achieve 360-degree perception, also advanced algorithm approach. So that's my response to your question. Hopefully, that can cover that.

隨著自動駕駛計程車市場快速邁向大規模商業化，我們的技術在實現安全可靠的自動駕駛——自主交通方面發揮著至關重要的作用。此外，當我們的 ATX128 或 ATX 類型的 LiDAR 部署在自動駕駛計程車時，這些基於 ASIC 的半固態設計提供了更具成本效益的解決方案。然而，由於其120度的水平視野，自動駕駛計程車通常需要三到四個我們的AT系列雷射雷達來實現360度的感知，同時也需要先進的演算法方法。這就是我對你的問題的回答。希望這可以涵蓋這一點。

Chun Xie, Huatai Securities.

謝春，華泰證券。

My first question is about the global market. When will we deliver LiDARs to the global OEMs? And what's the impact of volume for the next 1 or 2 years? And how to estimate the NRE income from the global OEMs this year?

我的第一個問題是關於全球市場的。我們什麼時候能向全球OEM廠商交付雷射雷達？那麼，未來 1 到 2 年銷售會產生什麼影響呢？今年全球主機廠NRE營收如何預估？

Okay. Hesai has been in active discussion and cooperation with our global customers. Recently, we have been actively driving 5 POC programs with 4 top global OEMs and Tier 1 suppliers across Europe and Japan, including the most recent POC awarded in Q1 by a top 5 global Tier 1 supplier headquartered in Japan. While these POC contracts are not yet full design wins, they play a critical role in the decision-making process. OEMs typically define final product specifications based on POC outcomes and use this phase to validate and codevelop surrounding components.

好的。禾賽一直與全球客戶積極探討與合作。最近，我們一直在積極推動與歐洲和日本的 4 家全球頂級 OEM 和一級供應商合作的 5 個 POC 項目，其中包括第一季由總部位於日本的全球五大一級供應商授予的最新 POC。雖然這些 POC 合約還不是完全的設計勝利，但它們在決策過程中發揮著至關重要的作用。OEM 通常根據 POC 結果定義最終產品規格，並利用此階段驗證和共同開發週邊組件。

As a result, suppliers engaged earlier in the POC stage are strategically positioned and may have a higher chance of securing the design win once the OEM issues a formal RFQ.

因此，在 POC 階段早期參與的供應商具有戰略地位，一旦 OEM 發布正式的 RFQ，他們就有更高的機會獲得設計勝利。

We have secured design win partnerships with 5 global OEMs: 4 through their JVs; and most importantly, an exclusive design win with a top European OEM, as we announced in last quarter. This long-term deal extends into the next decade across both their ICE and EV vehicle platforms, representing the largest global program in the automotive LiDAR industry. When we refer to the largest global program, it signifies not only our collaboration with this leading global OEM but also the extensive worldwide reach of our shipments, spanning China and numerous other international markets.

我們與 5 家全球 OEM 廠商達成設計合作協議：其中 4 家透過其合資企業達成；最重要的是，我們與一家歐洲頂級 OEM 廠商達成了獨家設計合作協議，正如我們在上個季度宣布的那樣。這項長期協議將延伸至未來十年，涵蓋其 ICE 和 EV 汽車平台，是汽車雷射雷達行業最大的全球項目。當我們提到最大的全球專案時，它不僅意味著我們與這家全球領先的 OEM 廠商的合作，還意味著我們的出貨範圍遍布全球，涵蓋中國和許多其他國際市場。

Our quality and performance have become our name card and our ability to deliver a comprehensive solution, bundling both long- and short-range LiDARs, makes us the go-to partner for global OEMs. The market potential is just massive. Our global LiDAR penetration is nearly 0 today. But as both ICE and EV started to adopt ADAS and LiDAR, we are unlocking an additional $30 billion to $60 billion market in the overseas market in the long run driven by 60 million overseas vehicles at a 500 to 1,000 LiDAR content per car as we estimated. That's my question to your -- that's my response to your question.

我們的品質和性能已成為我們的名片，我們提供綜合解決方案（捆綁長距離和短距離雷射雷達）的能力使我們成為全球 OEM 的首選合作夥伴。市場潛力大。目前，我們的全球 LiDAR 普及率接近 0。但隨著 ICE 和 EV 都開始採用 ADAS 和 LiDAR，從長遠來看，我們將在海外市場釋放一個額外的 300 億至 600 億美元的市場，由 6000 萬輛海外汽車推動，我們估計每輛車將配備 500 至 1,000 個 LiDAR。這就是我的疑問——這就是我對你的問題的回答。

Your next question comes from Jiaqu Huang from SPDBI.

您的下一個問題來自浦發銀行的黃家渠。

This is (inaudible) from SPDBI. And I've got just one question about our delisting plan. As market rumor saying that Hesai confidentially filed for Hong Kong listing, how do we respond to this?

這是（聽不清楚）來自 SPDBI 的。我對我們的退市計劃只有一個問題。市場傳言禾賽已秘密申請香港上市，我們該如何回應？

Okay. Thank you for asking this question. Regarding the market speculation about our delisting plan in Hong Kong, I have no comment on that. That said, we periodically evaluate all our possible and available options, including listing on other stock exchanges to protect our investors' interest and sustain our growth trajectory. Rest assured, our commitment to the company's long-term success in the capital markets remains steadfast.

好的。感謝您提出這個問題。對於市場對我們在香港退市計劃的猜測，我不予置評。也就是說，我們會定期評估所有可能和可用的選擇，包括在其他證券交易所上市，以保護投資者的利益並維持我們的成長軌跡。請放心，我們對公司在資本市場上長期成功的承諾始終堅定不移。

I guess the reason why you asked this question or the market is so focused on this is related to the market rumors about potential delisting of China ADRs from U.S. market. But based on the advice of our SEC compliance counsels, there is no legal or factual basis on the current NASDAQ listing rules or past precedents that support the delisting of Hesai from any government bodies. To date, we have received no inquiries, no investigations nor communications from NASDAQ concerning the potential delisting or similar actions. Based on the currently available information, we do not find any concrete legal risk of being delisted from NASDAQ.

我猜你問這個問題或市場如此關注這個問題的原因與市場上有關中國ADR可能從美國市場退市的傳言有關。但根據我們美國證券交易委員會合規顧問的建議，現行納斯達克上市規則或過去的先例均沒有法律或事實依據支持將禾賽從任何政府機構退市。到目前為止，我們尚未收到納斯達克關於潛在退市或類似行動的詢問、調查或通訊。根據目前掌握的信息，我們沒有發現任何從納斯達克退市的具體法律風險。

At this time, we are fully compliant with all the regulatory requirements from NASDAQ market.

目前，我們完全遵守納斯達克市場的所有監管要求。

Yes. We all know people will respond to a confidential filing, the entire point it's confidential.

是的。我們都知道人們會對機密文件做出回應，因為整個內容都是機密的。

Your next question comes from Joanna Ma from CMBI.

您的下一個問題來自 CMBI 的 Joanna Ma。

Congrats on the solid results. So I have a question regarding -- could you please share with us your review on impact on LiDAR industry development from latest AEBS draft for soliciting opinion?

祝賀您取得如此豐碩的成果。所以我有一個問題——您能否與我們分享一下您對最新 AEBS 徵求意見稿對 LiDAR 行業發展的影響的評論？

I'll take it on the EV question. Yes, I think it's very important. Can you hear me?

我將回答有關 EV 的問題。是的，我認為這非常重要。你聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes. I think it's taking such a technology to the next level. Historically, the idea is, if you buy a car with a LiDAR, you have a few more functions, some type of NOA, blah, blah, blah, and people can always say, "No, I feel very comfortable driving my own car," or "I feel like I'm safer than the car driving itself." So that's where LiDAR was about. And then starting from last year, EV take us to a new domain in which it will trigger, no matter if you turn it on or not, if it sees a risk, essentially, it becomes a future of invisible airbag, it's even better than airbag because obviously, it can stop a crash before it crashes. So the entire penetration of EV with LiDAR became much faster than the previous round for that reason.

是的。我認為它將這種技術提升到了一個新的水平。從歷史上看，人們的想法是，如果你購買了一輛帶有 LiDAR 的汽車，你就會擁有更多的功能，某種類型的 NOA 等等，人們總是可以說，“不，我駕駛自己的汽車感覺很舒服”，或者“我覺得我比汽車自己駕駛更安全”。這就是 LiDAR 的意義所在。從去年開始，電動車將我們帶入一個新的領域，無論你是否打開它，如果它發現風險，它就會觸發，本質上，它成為隱形安全氣囊的未來，它甚至比安全氣囊更好，因為顯然，它可以在碰撞之前阻止碰撞。因此，電動車與 LiDAR 的整體滲透速度比上一輪快得多。

And this is what we see. The entire LiDAR industry or the ADAS industry is now rushing to have most of the vehicles have a 100% take rate for LiDARs. Almost everybody is doing that because now you buy a car, you don't want people to see to worry about not having a LiDAR. And now we're also seeing a lot of the discussion at the regulatory level because clearly having advanced ADAS function with the ability to detect in complex environment is a must and most people agree LiDAR is a critical part of such an effort. So that's why you see the penetration rate is quickly going up.

這就是我們所看到的。整個 LiDAR 產業或 ADAS 產業現在都在爭相讓大多數車輛的 LiDAR 採用率達到 100%。幾乎每個人都這樣做，因為現在你買了一輛車，你不想讓別人看到而擔心沒有光達。現在，我們也看到監管層面的大量討論，因為顯然擁有先進的 ADAS 功能和在複雜環境中檢測的能力是必須的，而且大多數人都認為 LiDAR 是這種努力的關鍵部分。這就是為什麼你會看到滲透率快速上升。

And now the marketing for different OEMs are focusing on not only in the computation, but also the LiDAR. Many, many car launches today will explicitly have a page about LiDAR adoption in their car because no one wants to be not future-proof.

現在不同 OEM 的行銷不僅關注計算，還關注 LiDAR。如今，許多新車發佈時都會明確標明一頁有關在其汽車中採用 LiDAR 的信息，因為沒有人希望自己無法適應未來發展。

Okay. Got it. That's really helpful. And my second question, also can management with us your outlook on the room for operating efficiency improvements in the coming years? And also, are there any updates regarding the outlook for your CapEx?

好的。知道了。這真的很有幫助。我的第二個問題是，管理階層能否與我們分享您對未來幾年營運效率提升空間的展望？另外，關於您的資本支出前景有什麼最新消息嗎？

Okay. Let me answer this question. The second question first, the CapEx, I have guided that we expect our full year CapEx will be around USD30 million to USD50 million in the current year. For the OpEx, on a non-GAAP basis, our OpEx in year 2024 is about [$1 billion]. And about 65% of the OpEx is R&D, and 15% goes to sales and marketing and the rest of G&A.

好的。讓我來回答這個問題。首先是第二個問題，資本支出，我預計今年全年資本支出將在 3,000 萬美元至 5,000 萬美元左右。對於營運支出，以非 GAAP 計算，我們 2024 年的營運支出約為[10億美元]。約 65% 的營運支出用於研發，15% 用於銷售和行銷，其餘用於一般及行政費用。

In 2025, we actually guided that we are going to -- we expect that we are going to achieve a CNY100 million savings in the GAAP basis OpEx. We are committed to taking expense management to the next level, ensuring even better efficiency and financial discipline. As you can tell from our Q1 results, our OpEx declined by about 9% on a quarter-over-quarter basis, which is in line or even slightly better than the full year cost saving target. Our head count for year 2025 currently is about 50% for R&D staff, 15% for production, and the remaining is the sales and marketing and G&A-related employees.

到 2025 年，我們實際上預計我們將在 GAAP 基礎營運支出中節省 1 億元。我們致力於將費用管理提升到新的水平，確保更高的效率和財務紀律。從我們第一季的業績可以看出，我們的營運支出較上季下降了約 9%，與全年成本節約目標一致甚至略有改善。我們2025年的員工總數目前約為50％為研發人員，15％為生產人員，其餘為銷售和行銷以及與G＆A相關的員工。

Also, I would like to highlight the importance of the operating leverage. We have spent over a decade building a strong and stable organization structure, which is what we call a large mid platform with a lean front end. This allows us to scale our business without significantly increasing R&D expenses, while our revenue and gross profit grows. Therefore, we expect our R&D investments to remain relatively stable on the absolute amount, even as our revenue and gross profit continue to grow at a solid pace.

另外，我想強調經營槓桿的重要性。我們花了十多年的時間建立了一個強大而穩定的組織結構，這就是我們所說的大型中台和精益的前端。這使我們能夠在不大幅增加研發費用的情況下擴大業務規模，同時實現收入和毛利的成長。因此，即使我們的營收和毛利持續穩定成長，我們也預期我們的研發投資在絕對金額上仍將保持相對穩定。

Internationally, our ADAS business is still in the early stage and contributes a relatively modest share of total revenue as of today. At the end of the -- at the same time, we are allocating some of the R&D resources to support our global programs. In our robotics segment, most of the costs are tied up to our global sales network. On the product side, we are benefiting from our platform-based development, so we are not starting from scratch in each application of robotics, which help us scale more efficiently. Yes, that's my answer to the question you just raised.

在國際上，我們的 ADAS 業務仍處於早期階段，截至目前佔總收入的份額相對較小。最後——與此同時，我們正在分配一些研發資源來支持我們的全球計畫。在我們的機器人領域，大部分成本都與我們的全球銷售網絡有關。在產品方面，我們受益於基於平台的開發，因此我們不需要在每個機器人應用上從頭開始，這有助於我們更有效地擴展規模。是的，這就是我對你剛才提出的問題的回答。

Okay. Got it. That's really helpful. Congrats again.

好的。知道了。這真的很有幫助。再次恭喜。

As there are no further questions, I'd like to now turn the conference back over to the company for closing remarks.

由於沒有其他問題，我現在想將會議交還給公司進行總結發言。

Thank you once again for joining us today. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our IR team. This concludes today's call, and we look forward to speaking to you again next quarter. Thank you, and goodbye.

再次感謝您今天加入我們。如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時聯絡我們的 IR 團隊。今天的電話會議到此結束，我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。謝謝，再見。

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect your line. Thank you.

今天的電話會議到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路了。謝謝。