Hesai Group (HSAI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, ladies and gentlemen.

女士們、先生們，大家好。

Thank you for standing by.

感謝您的支持。

And welcome to the Hesai Group fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings conference call.

歡迎參加禾賽集團2024年第四季及全年財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Please note that today's conference call is being recorded.

請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the call over to our first speaker today, Yuanting Shi, the company's Head of Capital Markets.

現在，我將電話轉給今天的第一位發言者，公司資本市場主管史元婷。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you, operator.

謝謝您，接線生。

Hello, everyone.

大家好。

Thank you for joining Hesai Group's fourth quarter and full-year 2024 earnings conference call.

感謝您參加禾賽集團2024年第四季及全年獲利電話會議。

Our earnings release is now available on our IR website at investor.hesaitech.com, as well as via newswire services.

我們的收益報告目前可在我們的 IR 網站 investor.hesaitech.com 上查閱，也可透過新聞通訊服務查閱。

Today, you will hear from our CEO, Dr. David Li, who will provide an overview of our recent updates.

今天，我們將邀請我們的執行長 David Li 博士為您概述我們最近的更新。

Next, our CFO, Mr. Andrew Fan, will address our financial results before we open the call for questions.

接下來，我們的財務長 Andrew Fan 先生將在我們開始提問之前介紹我們的財務表現。

Before we continue, I refer you to the Safe Harbor statement in our earnings press release which applies to this call as we'll make forward-looking statements.

在我們繼續之前，請參閱我們收益新聞稿中的安全港聲明，該聲明適用於本次電話會議，因為我們將做出前瞻性陳述。

Please also note that the company will discuss non-GAAP measures today, which are more thoroughly explained and reconciled to the most comparable GAAP measures in our earnings release and SEC filings.

另外請注意，公司今天將討論非 GAAP 指標，這些指標將在我們的收益報告和 SEC 文件中得到更徹底的解釋和協調，並與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標相協調。

With that, I am pleased to turn over the call to our CEO, Dr. David Li.

現在，我很高興將電話轉給我們的執行長 David Li 博士。

David, please go ahead.

大衛，請繼續。

Thank you, Yuanting.

謝謝你，元婷。

And thank you, everyone, for joining our call today.

感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。

Let's start with a look back at the exciting journey we've had throughout 2024. 2024 was a transformational and breakout year for Hesai with Lidar shipment and net revenue hitting record highs.

讓我們先回顧一下 2024 年我們經歷的激動人心的旅程。

Driven by accelerating Lidar adoption in the ADAS and the robotic sectors, will solidify our industry leadership and shipped over 500,000 Lidar units in 2024, achieving an impressive growth rate of more than doubling each year for four consecutive years.

在 ADAS 和機器人領域加速雷射雷達應用的推動下，我們將鞏固我們的行業領導地位，並在 2024 年出貨超過 500,000 個雷射雷達裝置，連續四年實現每年翻一番以上的驚人增長率。

Sailing the rising tides of Lidar soaring demand and leveraging our unmatched vertical integration capabilities and economics of scale, we delivered the strongest financial performance in the global Lidar industry with the highest in net revenues and blended gross margins.

乘著雷射雷達需求飆升的東風，利用我們無與倫比的垂直整合能力和規模經濟，我們在全球雷射雷達行業實現了最強勁的財務業績，淨收入和混合毛利率均位居第一。

Most notably, we made history as the world's first Lidar company to achieve full-year, non-GAAP net profit, all while further strengthening our unmatched financial leadership with solid positive operating and net cash flows, making us the only company of our kind in the industry.

最值得注意的是，我們創造了歷史，成為全球第一家實現全年非公認會計準則淨利潤的雷射雷達公司，同時憑藉穩健的正營運和淨現金流進一步鞏固了我們無與倫比的財務領導地位，使我們成為業內唯一一家此類公司。

Building on this momentum, we would love to share our three expected goals for 2025.

在此勢頭的基礎上，我們很樂意分享我們對 2025 年的三個預期目標。

First, we are projecting [1.2 million to 1.5 million] Lidar shipments with nearly 200,000 of those being high-margin Robotic Lidar units.

首先，我們預計光達的出貨量為 120 萬至 150 萬台，其中近 20 萬台是高利潤的機器人光達。

Second, we aim to achieve net revenues of RMB3 million to RMB3.5 billion.

第二，我們力爭實現淨收入300萬到35億元。

And third, we expect to achieve GAAP profitability of RMB200 million to RMB350 million.

第三，我們預計將實現2億至3.5億元的GAAP獲利。

This marks a significant leap from non-GAAP breakeven in 2024, solidifying our trajectory towards long-term success.

這標誌著我們相對於 2024 年非 GAAP 損益平衡實現了重大飛躍，鞏固了我們邁向長期成功的軌跡。

Now, let's zoom out and look at the bigger picture.

現在，讓我們縮小視野，看看更大的圖像。

China is leading the charge in electrification with EV making up nearly 50% of the passenger vehicle market in 2024.

中國在電氣化領域處於領先地位，到 2024 年電動車將佔乘用車市場的近 50%。

As EVs become the new norm, the battlefield is shifting to ADAS and vehicle intelligence, critical areas where OEMs are fiercely racing to set themselves apart.

隨著電動車成為新常態，戰場正在轉向 ADAS 和車輛智能，這是原始設備製造商激烈競爭以脫穎而出的關鍵領域。

According to Goldman Sachs, ADAS is poised for explosive growth, with market penetration expected to skyrocket from just 8% in 2023 to a staggering 70% by 2030 in China.

高盛表示，ADAS 預計將爆炸性成長，預計中國市場滲透率將從 2023 年的 8% 飆升至 2030 年的驚人的 70%。

This trajectory mirrors adoption curves of smartphones from 2008 to 2015, and EVs from 2019 to 2026, signaling a transformative decade ahead.

這一軌跡反映了 2008 年至 2015 年智慧型手機的採用曲線以及 2019 年至 2026 年電動車的採用曲線，預示著未來十年的變革。

The long-term macro trends are directly reflected in the bold actions of OEMs in China.

長期宏觀趨勢直接體現在中國主機廠的大膽行動。

In 2025, our key customers such as BYD, Changan, and Leapmotor are ramping up their strategic upgrades, driving the push to make the intelligent driving mainstream.

2025年，比亞迪、長安、零跑汽車等重點客戶加速策略升級，推動智慧駕駛成為主流。

ADAS is more affordable and accessible than ever.

ADAS 比以往更經濟實惠且易於取得。

Even more revolutionary is their universal intelligent driving strategy, which integrates cutting-edge ADAS across the new vehicle lineups, also shattering price barriers.

更具革命性的是其通用智慧駕駛策略，將尖端的 ADAS 整合到新車型系列中，同時打破了價格障礙。

With Lidar-equipped models now entering the RMB100,000 range, advanced driving technologies is within reach for a wider audience.

隨著配備光達的車型進入10萬元人民幣的範圍內，先進的駕駛技術將為更廣泛的受眾所接受。

We're thrilled to witness the democratization of intelligent driving technology and excited for what's ahead.

我們很高興見證智慧駕駛技術的民主化，並對未來充滿期待。

And ADAS becomes ubiquitous, so does the demand for enhanced protection and safety, driving the rapid rise of Lidar adoption, fueled by the growing acceleration of ADAS and autonomous driving, along with mass market adoption.

隨著 ADAS 變得無處不在，對增強保護和安全性的需求也隨之增加，推動了雷射雷達應用的快速增長，而這得益於 ADAS 和自動駕駛的日益加速以及大眾市場的採用。

Lidar integration in EVs in China is set to surge from just 8% in 2023 to 20% in 2025, and then to an impressive 56% by 2030, according to Goldman Sachs estimates.

根據高盛估計，中國電動車中雷射雷達的整合度將從 2023 年的 8% 飆升至 2025 年的 20%，到 2030 年將達到驚人的 56%。

The future of driving is here.

駕駛的未來就在這裡。

And Lidar is at the forefront of this revolution.

而光達正處於這場革命的前沿。

The surge in Lidar adoption is a testament to our long-held belief in Lidar's three core values, making cars safer, smarter, and more desirable than ever.

光達應用的激增證明了我們長期以來對光達三大核心價值的信念，那就是讓汽車比以往更安全、更聰明、更受歡迎。

First and foremost, Lidars are becoming as essential as seatbelts, propelling Lidar into the mainstream.

首先，光達正變得像安全帶一樣重要，推動光達成為主流。

Camera rolling systems have been linked to crashes with stationary, emergency vehicles, and unexpected road hazards as reported by The Wall Street Journal in 2024.

根據《華爾街日報》 2024 年報道，攝影機滾動系統與與靜止車輛、緊急車輛以及意外道路危險的碰撞有關。

In contrast, Lidar outperformed cameras by cutting through glare and darkness while accuracy to detecting irregular small objects.

相較之下，光達在穿透眩光和黑暗方面表現優於攝影機，同時能夠準確偵測不規則小物體。

And other porter cases with outmatched 3D clarity and perception.

以及其他具有無可比擬的 3D 清晰度和感知力的搬運工案例。

Research shows that integrating Lidar into a vehicle can reduce severe accidents by up to 20% and improve overall crash avoidance by up to 9%.

研究表明，將雷射雷達整合到車輛中可以將嚴重事故減少多達 20%，並將整體防撞率提高多達 9%。

As reported by Li Auto last quarter, their active safety features have prevented over 3 billion potential accidents, including 516 severe accidents.

根據理想汽車上季報告顯示，其主動安全功能已預防超過 30 億起潛在事故，其中包括 516 起嚴重事故。

In the race toward higher levels of autonomous driving, while safety is paramount, ladders are just nice to have.

在邁向更高水準自動駕駛的競賽中，雖然安全至關重要，但有梯子也是錦上添花。

They are a game changer, actively protecting you and your loved ones on the road.

它們改變了遊戲規則，在路上積極保護您和您所愛的人。

Second, Lidars do more than just keeping you safe.

其次，光達的作用不僅僅是保護您的安全。

They supercharge the advanced driving features like urban NOA, chassis turning, and automated parking.

它們增強了城市 NOA、底盤轉彎和自動停車等先進的駕駛功能。

In urban NOA, nearly 100% of the models use Lidar for precise perception, enabling smooth lane changes and obstacle avoidance in complex environments.

在城市NOA中，幾乎100%的模型都利用光達進行精準感知，實現複雜環境下的平滑變換車道、避障。

For [chafing] tuning, Lidar scans the road in real time, detecting conditions up to 150 meters ahead, including speed bumps and potholes.

對於[摩擦]調整，雷射雷達即時掃描道路，偵測前方 150 公尺內的情況，包括減速帶和坑洞。

It then adjusts the suspension for better battery efficiency and right comfort.

然後，它會調整懸吊，以提高電池效率並提供合適的舒適度。

The automated parking, light up accurately maps the space and detects obstacles, offering robust performance in low light conditions and ensuring precise safe parking, even in the tightest spots, and our client report recently said, true, high-level intelligent driving starts with Lidar.

自動停車功能可以精確繪製空間地圖並偵測障礙物，在低光源條件下提供強大的性能，即使在最狹窄的地方也能確保精確的安全停車，我們的客戶報告最近表示，真正的高級智慧駕駛始於雷射雷達。

Finally, Lidars are more than just a technical advancement.

最後，光達不僅僅是一項技術進步。

They are a statement of style and sophistication.

它們是風格和精緻的體現。

Cars with Lidar are seen as premium, cutting edge, and safer.

配備光達的汽車被視為高端、先進且更安全的汽車。

That's why Chinese carmakers are positioning Lidars in front and center, showcasing as a batch of innovation.

這就是為什麼中國汽車製造商將光達定位在最前沿，展示一批創新。

A perfect example is Great Motors, Wei Lanshan, one of China's largest shippers, which launched in August 2024 with our AT128 Lidar as a standard.

一個很好的例子就是中國最大的貨運公司之一偉蘭山貨運，該公司於 2024 年 8 月推出，並以我們的 AT128 雷射雷達為標準。

The result, a sales explosion.

結果，銷量激增。

By December 2024, monthly sales surpassed 8,000 units, three times the sales of the previous model that didn't feature Lidar.

到 2024 年 12 月，月銷量超過 8,000 台，是上一代未配備光達車型銷量的三倍。

The core benefits are driving Lidar into the spotlight, earning recognition from both OEMs and consumers alike.

核心優勢使光達成為人們關注的焦點，贏得了原始設備製造商和消費者的認可。

We are committed to lowering the barrier to Lidar adoption and driving technological equality.

我們致力於降低光達應用的門檻並推動技術平等。

ATX Lidar, our category defining product, delivers unbeatable cost of performance price at just $200.

ATX Lidar 是我們定義類別的產品，只需 200 美元即可提供無與倫比的效能成本。

Equipping vehicle models starting as low as RMB1,000, it offers OEMs a budget-friendly Lidar solution, designed to drive widespread adoption.

它可配備售價低至 1,000 元人民幣的車型，為 OEM 提供經濟實惠的雷射雷達解決方案，旨在推動其廣泛應用。

With mass production kicking off in Q1 2025, the ATX Lidar has already secured design wings with 11 OEM during the democratization of vehicle intelligence.

ATX 雷射雷達將於 2025 年第一季開始量產，在汽車智慧化民主化過程中已經獲得 11 家 OEM 的設計許可。

This is opening doors, bringing new clients, and converting others from rival suppliers.

這將打開大門，帶來新客戶，並轉換其他競爭對手的客戶。

We are particularly proud of our client partnerships with Chery, which is one of China's TOP3 automakers and a major automotive group that includes VOYAH Premium EV brand.

我們特別為與奇瑞的客戶合作感到自豪，奇瑞是中國三大汽車製造商之一，也是包括嵐圖高端電動車品牌在內的大型汽車集團。

VOYAH flagship Electric MTV is a market powerhouse shipping over 10,000 units per month.

VOYAH 旗艦電動 MTV 是市場強者，每月出貨量超過 10,000 台。

Production for these fighting wins kick off in the second half of 2025 and expected to accelerate in 2026.

這些戰鬥勝利品的生產將於 2025 年下半年啟動，預計將在 2026 年加速。

In addition, our order book continues to diversify and expand as we forge new relationships and strengthening existing ones.

此外，隨著我們建立新的關係和加強現有的關係，我們的訂單繼續多樣化和擴大。

In February, BYD, the world's largest EV maker, announced that its all its models will feature next generation ADAS Hesai, making it accessible to everyone.

今年2月，全球最大的電動車製造商比亞迪宣布，其全系車型將搭載下一代ADAS禾賽，讓所有人都能享受該系統的便利性。

Lidar will power two variants of the system, which is key from urban to highway NOA.

光達將為該系統的兩種版本提供動力，這對從城市到高速公路 NOA 都至關重要。

We deepen our collaboration with BYD, and we supply Lidars for more than 10 of its models, set for mass production in 2025.

我們深化與比亞迪的合作，為其10多款車型供應光達，計畫於2025年實現量產。

But this is just the beginning.

但這只是一個開始。

Our momentum is unstoppable.

我們的勢頭不可阻擋。

We've also secured exclusive ATX Lidar design wings with great warm motors.

我們還獲得了獨家的 ATX 光達設計機翼，並配備了出色的暖機馬達。

And China has two of the top 10 Chinese automakers, covering multiple top performing brands, including bestsellers like [Qiyuan and Wei], late for mass production in 2025.

中國擁有十大汽車製造商中的兩家，涵蓋多個表現優異的品牌，包括像啟源和威這樣的暢銷品牌，這些品牌預計在 2025 年實現量產。

This marks a major leap for us, accelerating by our adoption in mass market vehicles and vastly expanding our total addressable market.

這對我們來說標誌著一次重大的飛躍，透過我們在大眾市場汽車中的應用加速了我們的進程，並大大擴展了我們的整體目標市場。

Building our stellar domestic ADAS performance, we are thrilled to announce yet another major milestone as we expand further onto the global stage.

在鞏固我們在國內 ADAS 領域出色表現的基礎上，我們非常高興地宣布另一個重要里程碑，標誌著我們在全球舞台上進一步拓展。

We are beyond excited to be awarded a new groundbreaking exclusive design win with a top European AOEM, further deepening our collaboration.

我們非常高興能夠與歐洲頂級 AOEM 簽訂開創性的獨家設計合同，這將進一步深化我們的合作。

This multi-year program will last into the next decade across both ICE and EV platforms, marking it the largest global program for the automotive Lidar industry.

該多年期計畫將持續到未來十年，涵蓋 ICE 和 EV 平台，是汽車雷射雷達行業最大的全球項目。

This long-term partnership is a resounding endorsement of our unmatched performance and quality.

這一長期合作關係是對我們無與倫比的性能和品質的有力認可。

Meeting the rigorous standards of a global market leader, our quality has become our name card, a powerful symbol of excellence and vote of confidence in our visionary future.

我們的品質滿足全球市場領導者的嚴格標準，已成為我們的名片、卓越的有力像徵和對我們遠見卓識的信心投票。

As we continue to push the boundaries of innovation, our unwavering commitment to delivering on paralleled quality and exceptional products propels us towards an even more exciting future.

隨著我們不斷突破創新界限，我們堅定不移地致力於提供平行品質和卓越產品，這將推動我們走向更令人興奮的未來。

Our momentum is real.

我們的勢頭是真實的。

As of today, we have already secured design wings for 120 vehicle models across 22 OEMs worldwide, including the remarkable nine out of the top 10 largest automakers by market cap in China.

截至目前，我們已經為全球 22 家原始設備製造商的 120 款車型提供了設計服務，其中包括中國市值排名前 10 位的汽車製造商中的 9 家。

It's just a win, that's a statement.

這只是一場勝利，這只是一個聲明。

A statement of industry leadership, trust, and the sheer power of our cutting-edge technology.

這是我們產業領先地位、信任度以及尖端科技強大威力的體現。

In 2025, we demand surging.

2025年，我們的需求將會激增。

We're launching new production lines in Q1, which will begin production in Q3.

我們將在第一季啟動新的生產線，並將於第三季開始生產。

By the end of the year, our annualized production capacity is expected to reach 2 million units.

預計到今年年底，我們的年產能將達到200萬台。

We are not just building Lidar; we're reshaping the future of mobility.

我們不僅僅是建造光達；我們正在重塑移動出行的未來。

We are bringing intelligence and safety to everyone and everywhere.

我們正在為每個地方的每個人帶來智慧和安全。

This isn't just innovation.

這不僅僅是創新。

It's a movement and we're leading it.

這是一場運動，我們正在引領它。

Meanwhile, enormous opportunities await us beyond the data sector.

同時，數據領域之外還存在著巨大的機會。

We're taking our mechanical Lidar solutions to the next level, expanding into the broader Robotics market.

我們正在將機械光達解決方案提升到新的水平，擴展到更廣泛的機器人市場。

Our newly launched JT Mini Lidar is already redefining Robotics navigation with this innovative, hyper-hemispherical field of view, ultra-light, compact design.

我們新推出的 JT Mini Lidar 已經透過這種創新的超半球視野、超輕、緊湊的設計重新定義了機器人導航。

It's ideal for a diverse range of Robotics applications, human robots, delivery robots, cleaning robots, ATVs, port-and-yard automation, stationary applications, and many more possibilities worth exploring.

它非常適合各種機器人應用、人類機器人、送貨機器人、清潔機器人、全地形車、港口和院子自動化、固定應用以及更多值得探索的可能性。

We've also capitalized on the booming Robotics market with the JT Lidar.

我們也利用 JT Lidar 在蓬勃發展的機器人市場中佔有了一席之地。

And we are thrilled to announce a partnership with a leading smart home Robotics company for MOVA's Robotics lawnmowers, forecasting to deliver a six-digit order in 2025.

我們很高興地宣布與一家領先的智慧家庭機器人公司合作，共同研發 MOVA 機器人割草機，預計在 2025 年交付六位數的訂單。

This order book is expected to grow at client sense into new models launched in 2026 and beyond.

從客戶角度來看，預計該訂單量將成長至 2026 年及以後推出的新車型。

Additionally, JT has also secured orders from autonomy, the autonomous agricultural vehicle solution partner to the world's largest manufacturer of compact construction equipment.

此外，JT還獲得了全球最大小型建築設備製造商自動駕駛農業車輛解決方案合作夥伴autonomy的訂單。

This further [signals] JT as the go-to choice for the booming Robotics market.

這進一步表明 JT 是蓬勃發展的機器人市場的首選。

We're only beginning to unlock its full potential.

我們才剛開始釋放其全部潛力。

Building on the strong momentum of our JT series, we have also made significant strides in broader Robotics application.

憑藉JT系列的強勁發展勢頭，我們在更廣泛的機器人應用方面也取得了重大進展。

In Q4 2024 alone, beyond JT, we shipped approximately 7,000 robotic Lidar units to L4 customers, powering thousands of autonomous vehicles.

僅在 2024 年第四季度，除了 JT 之外，我們還向 L4 客戶運送了約 7,000 台機器人雷射雷達裝置，為數千輛自動駕駛汽車提供支援。

A robotic Lidar is fueling the robotaxi boom, transforming industrial automation, and pushing the boundaries of autonomy.

機器人光達正在推動機器人計程車的蓬勃發展，改變工業自動化，並突破自主性的界限。

We are the exclusive long-range Lidar supplier for all of China's top 5 robotaxi companies, including Baidu's Apollo Gold.

我們是中國五大自動駕駛計程車公司的獨家遠程光達供應商，包括百度的 Apollo Gold。

We're also the sole supplier for a leading global robotaxi player, which clocked nearly a million autonomous miles in 2024 and is set for significant speed expansion in 2025, all powered by our Panda and the QT series.

我們也是一家全球領先的自動駕駛計程車公司的唯一供應商，該公司的自動駕駛里程在 2024 年達到了近一百萬英里，並將在 2025 年大幅提高速度，所有動力都由我們的 Panda 和 QT 系列提供動力。

Beyond mobility, our XT series Lidar is driving an advance of 3D vision for Unitrees, robots, and automating implant driving systems at the BMW factories.

除了移動性之外，我們的 XT 系列雷射雷達還推動了寶馬工廠的 Unitrees、機器人和自動化植入驅動系統的 3D 視覺進步。

These partnerships unite industry leaders in autonomous driving and sensing technology, paving the way for the future of Robotics.

這些合作關係聯合了自動駕駛和感測技術領域的行業領導者，為機器人技術的未來鋪平了道路。

Finally, I would like to extend my gratitude to our incredible team for an outstanding year.

最後，我要向我們優秀的團隊表示感謝，感謝他們一年來的出色表現。

While we've made huge strides, we know this is just the beginning of an exhilarating journey.

雖然我們已經取得了巨大的進步，但我們知道這只是一段令人振奮的旅程的開始。

We are on a mission to redefine the future of mobility and the revolutionize Robotics with our cutting-edge technology.

我們的使命是重新定義移動的未來，並用我們的尖端技術徹底改變機器人技術。

As we continue to push boundaries, I'm confident that our innovations will not only reshape how people and goods move, but also unlock opportunities of growth, efficiency, and sustainability.

隨著我們不斷突破界限，我相信我們的創新不僅將重塑人員和貨物的流動方式，還將釋放成長、效率和永續發展的機會。

I will now turn the call over to Andrew to share more details on our financial performance and outlook.

現在我將把電話轉給安德魯，讓他分享更多有關我們的財務表現和前景的細節。

Andrew, please go ahead.

安德魯，請繼續。

Thank you, David.

謝謝你，大衛。

And hello, everyone.

大家好。

Let's go through our operating and financial figures for the fourth quarter and the full-year 2024.

讓我們來看看 2024 年第四季和全年的營運和財務數據。

To be mindful of the length of our earnings call today, I encourage the listeners to refer to our 4th quarter earnings release for further details.

考慮到我們今天的收益電話會議的長度，我鼓勵聽眾參考我們的第四季度收益報告以了解更多詳細資訊。

Beginning with the numbers for the full year 2024, our net revenues increased to a record high of RMB $2 billion or USD285 million, the highest in the global industry.

從2024年全年數字開始，我們的淨收入增加至創紀錄的20億元或2.85億美元，為全球產業最高。

Shipments in 2024 exceeded 500,000 units, more than doubling 2023's total, highlighting our robust growth trajectories.

2024 年的出貨量超過 50 萬台，是 2023 年總量的兩倍多，突顯了我們強勁的成長軌跡。

December was a particularly strong month as we set an industry first with 100,000 monthly shipments, a stellar achievement, especially when compared to global peers who are still shipping in the lower thousands per quarter or even per year.

12 月的業績尤其強勁，我們創下了業界第一，月出貨量達到 10 萬份，這是一項了不起的成就，尤其是與每季甚至每年出貨量仍不到千份的全球同業相比。

Of the 100,000 units shipped in December, over 20,000 were delivered to our rapidly expanding Robotics business, marking a significant leap forward for this booming market.

12 月出貨的 10 萬台中，超過 2 萬台交付給了我們快速擴張的機器人業務，這標誌著這個蓬勃發展的市場取得了重大飛躍。

In the fourth quarter of 2024, our blended gross margin remained healthy at 39%, down from the third quarter, primarily due to a decrease in higher margin NRE revenues and a shift in product mix toward ADAS shipments.

2024 年第四季度，我們的混合毛利率保持在 39% 的健康水平，低於第三季度，這主要是由於利潤率較高的 NRE 收入減少以及產品結構向 ADAS 出貨量的轉變。

More importantly, we hit a pivotal milestone with our business turning profitable.

更重要的是，我們的業務開始獲利，達到了一個關鍵的里程碑。

We are extremely proud to be the world's first Lidar company to achieve full-year, non-GAAP net profits of RMB $14 million or USD1.9 million, marking a significant leap from our non-GAAP net loss of RMB $241 million or USD34 million in 2023.

我們非常自豪地成為全球第一家實現全年非公認會計準則淨利潤 1400 萬元人民幣或 190 萬美元的激光雷達公司，這較 2023 年非公認會計準則淨虧損 2.41 億元人民幣或 3400 萬美元實現了重大飛躍。

At the same time, we further cemented our industry-leading financial strengths with full-year positive operating cash flow of RMB $63 million or USD8.6 million.

同時，我們全年實現正經營現金流人民幣 6,300 萬元或 860 萬美元，進一步鞏固了我們行業領先的財務實力。

4Q 2024

2024 年第四季

was a standout quarter, driving a strong inflow of operating cash flow at RMB641 million or USD88 million.

這是一個出色的季度，推動了強勁的經營現金流流入，達到人民幣 6.41 億元或 8800 萬美元。

These accomplishments, not only validated our business model, but also solidified our leadership in the Lidar market, demonstrating how innovation and a strong financial performance can go hand in hand as we continue to drive the future of autonomous technology.

這些成就不僅驗證了我們的商業模式，而且鞏固了我們在雷射雷達市場的領導地位，展示了在我們繼續推動自動駕駛技術的未來發展時，創新和強勁的財務業績如何能夠齊頭並進。

Looking ahead to 2025, we are preparing for another strong year that will reinforce our market leadership and drive further market share gains.

展望 2025 年，我們正在為另一個強勁的一年做準備，這將鞏固我們的市場領導地位並進一步推動市場份額的成長。

We expect that revenues for the full year to be between RMB3.0 billion or USD411 million to RMB3.5 billion or USD480 million.

我們預計全年營收在30億元或4.11億美元至35億元人民幣或4.8億美元之間。

Representing a year-over-year increase of approximately 44% to 69%, this growth will be driven by total shipments projected to reach 1.2 to 1.5 million units, with over 80% of units, coming from the ADAS sector.

該成長預估將比去年同期增加約 44% 至 69%，主要由於總出貨量預計達到 120 萬至 150 萬台，其中 80% 以上來自 ADAS 領域。

A key driver of our rapid shipment growth is the increasing adoption of our newly released ATX Lidar, a category defining Lidar, priced at approximately $200.

我們出貨量快速成長的一個關鍵驅動因素是我們新發布的 ATX 光達的採用率越來越高，這是一款定義光達類別的光達，售價約為 200 美元。

It has quickly gained traction with OEMs, increasingly adopting it as a standard feature or integrated into mass market vehicles.

它很快就獲得了原始設備製造商的青睞，越來越多地將其作為標準功能或整合到大眾市場車輛中。

We anticipate it will contribute between the high six digits and nearly 1 million units to total shipments in 2025.

我們預計，到 2025 年，它將為總出貨量貢獻六位數高點至近 100 萬台。

While positioned as a lower price offering to accelerate mass market penetration, the ATX cost structure has been carefully optimized with 100% of the key components designed in-house, ensuring that we maintain a healthy margin for this product.

雖然 ATX 的定位是低價產品以加速大眾市場的滲透，但其成本結構已經過精心優化，100% 的關鍵部件均由公司內部設計，從而確保我們為該產品保持健康的利潤率。

Our Lidar are also gaining tremendous momentum in the Robotics market, driven by the newly launched JT series, our mini 3D mechanical Lidar, now seeing strong adoption across AGVs, service robots, stationary solutions, and more.

我們的光達在機器人市場也獲得了巨大的發展勢頭，這得益於新推出的 JT 系列和我們的迷你 3D 機械雷射雷達，目前已在 AGV、服務機器人、固定解決方案等領域中廣泛應用。

We are excited to have secured a major multi-year order for mobile robotic lawn mowers from a leading smart home robotic company with six-digit shipments of JT expected in 2025.

我們很高興獲得一家領先的智慧家庭機器人公司的移動機器人割草機多年期大訂單，預計 2025 年 JT 的出貨量將達到六位數。

Mass production of the JT series began in December 2024, with over 20,000 units shipped in the first month alone.

JT系列於2024年12月開始量產，光是第一個月就出貨了20,000多台。

We anticipate its average gross margin to align with our existing mechanical Lidar, reinforcing its strong financial contributions.

我們預計其平均毛利率將與我們現有的機械光達保持一致，從而增強其強勁的財務貢獻。

Meanwhile, our Pandar and XP series Lidars continue to power a wide range of Robotics applications, such as Robotaxi and industrial automation.

同時，我們的 Pandar 和 XP 系列雷射雷達繼續為廣泛的機器人應用提供支持，例如 Robotaxi 和工業自動化。

With pricing for our robotic Lidars, including the JT, XT, and the Pandar series, ranging from the low RMB1,000 to over RMB100,000.

我們的機器人雷射雷達，包括JT、XT和Pandar系列，價格從1000元人民幣到10萬元以上不等。

We provide a versatile portfolio to meet diverse robotic needs.

我們提供多功能的產品組合來滿足不同的機器人需求。

Robotics Lidar shipments are expected to reach nearly 200,000 units in 2025, marking a major milestone in our Robotics expansion.

預計2025年機器人光達出貨量將達到近20萬台，這標誌著我們機器人業務擴張的重要里程碑。

Lastly, for the first quarter of 2025, we expect the net revenues to be between RMB520 million or $71 million and the RMB540 million or $74 million, representing a year-over-year growth of 45% to 50% with a total shipment volume of approximately 200,000 units.

最後，對於 2025 年第一季度，我們預計淨收入在人民幣 5.2 億元或 7,100 萬美元至人民幣 5.4 億元或 7,400 萬美元之間，年增 45% 至 50%，總出貨量約為 200,000 台。

We expect the revenue and the shipment momentum to strengthen progressively each quarter throughout the year.

我們預計全年每季的營收和出貨量動能將逐步增強。

In terms of our blended gross margins, we expect a full-year target of around 40%.

就我們的混合毛利率而言，我們預計全年目標約為40％。

At the same time, we will continue to strategically invest in R&D to enhance the competitiveness of our technologies and strengthen product road maps while maintaining disciplined cost controls.

同時，我們將繼續在研發方面進行策略性投資，以增強我們的技術競爭力並加強產品路線圖，同時保持嚴格的成本控制。

This balanced strategy drives us towards incredible success.

這種平衡的策略推動我們走向令人難以置信的成功。

We are forecasting GAAP profitability to reach RMB200 million to RMB350 million, with non-GAAP profitability soaring to RMB350 million to RMB500 million, an astounding 25 to 35 times our 2024 non-GAAP profits.

我們預測 GAAP 獲利將達到人民幣 2 億至 3.5 億元，非 GAAP 獲利將飆升至人民幣 3.5 億至 5 億元，這將是我們 2024 年非 GAAP 利潤的 25 至 35 倍。

This explosive growth not only sets the stage for unstoppable growth but also cements our path to long-term industry leadership.

這種爆炸性的成長不僅為不可阻擋的成長奠定了基礎，而且鞏固了我們長期保持行業領導地位的道路。

This concludes our prepared remarks today.

今天的準備好的發言到此結束。

Operator, we are now ready to take questions.

接線員，我們現在可以回答問題了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Tim Hsiao, MS.

Tim Hsiao，碩士

Hi.

你好。

This is Tim from Morgan Stanley.

我是摩根士丹利的提姆。

Congratulations on the great results and thanks for taking the questions.

恭喜您取得的優異成績，並感謝您的提問。

So actually I just have one question about the guidance because during the presentation, just now, I think David and Drew share the robust revenue and volume guidance for the full-year 2025.

所以實際上我只有一個關於指引的問題，因為在剛才的演示中，我認為 David 和 Drew 分享了 2025 年全年強勁的收入和銷售指引。

Given several moving factors, could you please share more detailed guidance about how like a quarterly volume trajectory would look like, product mix of the ATX or the AT512, potentially impact on the ASD erosion, as well as the gross margin trend throughout the whole year 2025?

考慮到幾個變動因素，您能否分享更詳細的指導，關於季度銷售趨勢、ATX 或 AT512 的產品組合、對 ASD 侵蝕的潛在影響，以及 2025 年全年的毛利率趨勢？

And I think Andrew mentioned gross profit margin will say that's a healthy level.

我認為安德魯提到的毛利率表明這是一個健康的水平。

So what's the healthy levels, that you refer to?

那麼您所指的健康程度是多少？

Is that 40%?

那是 40% 嗎？

And in the meantime, we noticed that 2025 would be another profitable year.

同時，我們注意到2025年將是另一個獲利的一年。

Yeah.

是的。

I just want to double confirm that if we should expect every quarter, including first quarter in the low season, the profit making.

我只是想再確認一下，我們是否應該預期每個季度，包括淡季的第一季度，都能獲利。

Yeah, that's my question.

是的，這就是我的問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you, Jim.

謝謝你，吉姆。

Let me take this question.

請讓我來回答這個問題。

Regarding our guidance for first quarter of 2025, revenue-wise, we expect to have a revenue between RMB520 million to RMB540 million, a strong year-over-year increase of 45% to 50%, and mainly driven by the rapid adoption of Lidar in passenger cars in China.

關於我們對 2025 年第一季的預期，就收入而言，我們預計收入在人民幣 5.2 億元至人民幣 5.4 億元之間，同比強勁增長 45% 至 50%，主要得益於中國乘用車對雷射雷達的快速應用。

However, quarter-over-quarter growth was lower due to seasonal factors.

但由於季節性因素，季度環比成長較低。

Regarding volume and the ASPs, we expect the first quarter '25 shipments to reach approximately 200,000 units with quarterly volumes, increasing sequentially throughout the year.

至於銷量和平均售價，我們預計25年第一季的出貨量將達到約20萬台，季度銷售將全年季增。

And this number is also similar to our Q4 volume.

這個數字也與我們第四季的銷售相似。

In Q1, the [80 128] is expected to have an annual price decline to the [10s] from $400 in 2024 to around $350 this year while remaining the majority of the ADAS shipments in Q1.

在第一季度，[80 128] 的價格預計將從 2024 年的 400 美元下降到今年的 350 美元左右，但仍佔第一季 ADAS 出貨量的大部分。

Meanwhile, the ATX priced at approximately $200 has begun shipping in Q1.

同時，售價約 200 美元的 ATX 已於第一季開始出貨。

Additionally, a higher priced, ultra-high performance AT product series will be priced around $500 and is set to enter SOP in Q2 this year.

此外，價格更高、超高性能的AT產品系列售價將在500美元左右，並將於今年第二季進入SOP。

Gross profit margins wise, we expected it to be close to 40%, considering the large contribution from ADAS shipments in Q1.

就毛利率而言，考慮到第一季 ADAS 出貨量的較大貢獻，我們預計將接近 40%。

Profitability wise, despite the seasonality in Q1, we anticipate a year-over-year improvement in that loss of approximately 50% with a rebound to profitability expected in Q2.

在獲利能力方面，儘管第一季存在季節性因素，但我們預計虧損將年增約 50%，預計第二季獲利能力將反彈。

The breakeven point will be between Q1 and Q2.

損益平衡點將位於 Q1 和 Q2 之間。

For the full year guidance, revenue wise, reflecting the strong demand from both ADAS and Robotics, we are forecasting RMB3 billion to RMB3.5 billion in revenues for 2025 with ADAS accounts for roughly 60% to 65% in total revenues.

就全年營收指引而言，考慮到 ADAS 和機器人技術的強勁需求，我們預測 2025 年的營收將達到 30 億至 35 億元人民幣，其中 ADAS 約佔總收入的 60% 至 65%。

Volume, we are expecting 1.2 million to 1.5 million total shipments in 2025 based on our customer forecast, i.e. 1.0 million to 1.3 million units from ADAS and nearly 200,000 from Robotics.

數量方面，根據客戶的預測，我們預計 2025 年總出貨量將達到 120 萬至 150 萬台，其中 ADAS 出貨量為 100 萬至 130 萬台，機器人出貨量為近 20 萬台。

For ADAS segments, we have discussed the multiple industry trends during our earnings call, where Lidar adoption is skyrocketing as more customers recognize the three core values of Lidar, making cars safer, smarter, and more desirable than ever.

對於 ADAS 領域，我們在收益電話會議上討論了多種行業趨勢，隨著越來越多的客戶認識到光達的三大核心價值，光達的採用正在飆升，使汽車比以往任何時候都更安全、更聰明、更受歡迎。

In recent quarters, we have secured a significant design wins for new car models, SOP in 2025 and beyond.

最近幾個季度，我們已獲得新車型的重大設計勝利，標準運行時間為 2025 年及以後。

Some of our major customers' top selling modules, including those from the Auto, Xiaomi, BYD, and the Leapmotor, are driving Lidar into the mainstream.

我們一些主要客戶的暢銷模組，包括來自大眾汽車、小米、比亞迪和零跑車的模組，正在推動雷射雷達成為主流。

Additionally, some of our clients are adopting Lidar as a standard configuration starting 2025.

此外，我們的一些客戶從 2025 年開始採用光達作為標準配置。

For 2025, we will have three variations from AT in production.

到 2025 年，我們將生產三種 AT 變體。

The first is the current ATP series, which will experience a moderate annual decline in ASP in teams to reach around $350.

首先是目前的 ATP 系列賽，其隊伍平均售價將出現年度適度下降，降至 350 美元左右。

The second is the ultra-high performance AT, designed to meet L3 standards, which will enjoy a higher price tag around $500.

第二款是超高性能AT，符合L3標準，價格會高一些，約500美元。

Lastly, the cost-effective compact ATX priced at $200 has begun its production in Q1, with the best-selling car modules, adopting it as a standard configuration in 2025.

最後，價格為 200 美元的高性價比緊湊型 ATX 已於第一季開始生產，並將成為最暢銷的汽車模組，將在 2025 年採用它作為標準配置。

Tapping into the mass market vehicles, the ATX is projected to shift between high six digits to 1 million units in 2025.

進入大眾市場車輛後，預計到 2025 年 ATX 的銷售量將達到六位數至 100 萬輛。

Expected long-term content per vehicle remains $500 to $1000 with the introduction of L3 as more Lidar units will be adopted per car for all-around safety.

隨著 L3 的推出，預計每輛車的長期成本仍將在 500 至 1000 美元之間，因為每輛車將採用更多的雷射雷達裝置以確保全方位的安全。

Regarding our robotic segments, the Robotics market is surging.

就我們的機器人領域而言，機器人市場正在蓬勃發展。

Our JT, XP, QT, and the Pandar series Lidars, ranging from low RMB1,000 to over RMB100,000 are in high demand across consumer Robotics, industrial automation, robotaxi, and various other Robotics applications.

我們的 JT、XP、QT 和 Pandar 系列雷射雷達價格從 1,000 元人民幣低至 100,000 元人民幣以上，在消費機器人、工業自動化、機器人出租車和其他各種機器人應用領域都很受歡迎。

For example, JT has already secured a multi-year order from MOVA for robotic mowers with projected the 60-digit deliveries in 2025.

例如，JT 已經與 MOVA 簽訂了為期多年的機器人割草機訂單，預計 2025 年的交付量將達到 60 位數。

As such, we anticipate delivering nearly 200,000 units of Robotics sliders in 2025.

因此，我們預計 2025 年將交付近 20 萬台機器人滑桿。

Production capacity, as of now, we have two production facilities in operation, one in Shanghai and one in Hangzhou.

生產能力，截至目前，我們有兩個生產設施投入運營，一個在上海，一個在杭州。

Driven by the strong demand, we are launching new production lines in Q1, which will begin production in Q3.

在強勁需求的推動下，我們將在第一季啟動新的生產線，並將於第三季開始生產。

By the end of 2025, our annualized production capacity is expected to reach 2 million units.

到2025年底，我們的年產能預計將達到200萬台。

Four-year gross profit margins, we are confident that our blended growth margin will stay healthy, thanks to effective cost management and our flywheel approach of cost and the scale optimization.

四年的毛利率，我們相信，由於有效的成本管理和成本與規模優化的飛輪方法，我們的混合增長利潤率將保持健康。

Also, we expected the robotic segment to contribute significantly to our margin profile.

此外，我們預計機器人部門將對我們的利潤率做出重大貢獻。

The 2025 blended gross profit margin is expected to be around 40%.

預計2025年綜合毛利率為40%左右。

Net profit.

純利。

We are setting the pace, projecting GAAP profitability to hit RMB200 million to RMB350 million, while non-GAAP profits are set to skyrocket to RMB350 million to RMB500 million, an incredible 25 to 35 times our 2024 non-GAAP earnings.

我們正在設定步伐，預計 GAAP 獲利將達到人民幣 2 億至 3.5 億元，而非 GAAP 利潤將飆升至人民幣 3.5 億至 5 億元，這將是我們 2024 年非 GAAP 收益的 25 至 35 倍。

Hopefully, that will address Tim's question.

希望這可以解答蒂姆的問題。

Thank you so much for your detailed answers.

非常感謝您的詳細回答。

That's super helpful.

這非常有幫助。

That's all from me.

我要說的就這些。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tina Hoang, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的蒂娜·黃（Tina Hoang）。

Hi, management.

你好，管理層。

Congratulations on the strong result and strong guidance for '25.

恭喜您 25 年取得的強勁業績和強有力的指導。

I have two questions.

我有兩個問題。

The first one is in terms of the Robotic slide, our market, understand it's growing very fast.

第一個是關於機器人滑梯，我們的市場，了解它成長非常快。

And it's just an emerging market.

這只是一個新興市場。

So longer term, how should we think about the potential 10 and size of this market?

那麼從長遠來看，我們該如何看待這個市場的潛力和規模？

Also, longer term, do we expect the margin to remain at such high levels?

此外，從長遠來看，我們是否預計利潤率將保持在如此高的水平？

Or do we see the margin more normalized to a similar level as our ADAS Lidar, when there is a very mass adoption for Robotics?

或者，當機器人技術得到大規模採用時，我們是否會看到利潤率更加標準化，達到與我們的 ADAS 雷射雷達類似的水平？

That's my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

And then the second question is regarding our cost reduction, understand with the ATX we've successfully reduced cost by quite a lot, around 50% versus the AT128.

第二個問題是關於我們的成本降低，據我們了解，透過 ATX 我們成功地將成本降低了不少，與 AT128 相比降低了約 50％。

So just wondering going forward, how much more room for price -- for cost reduction there is?

所以我想知道未來價格和成本降低的空間還有多少？

And then through, what kind of technology advancement are we achieving this cost reduction?

那麼我們透過什麼樣的技術進步來實現這種成本降低呢？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Let me first answer your question regarding the Robotics market.

讓我先回答您有關機器人市場的問題。

Beyond ADAS, the robotic markets present enormous opportunities.

除了 ADAS 之外，機器人市場還存在著巨大的機會。

The time in these areas is expected to be a major growth driver for us in the future, potentially even several times larger than the time of our passenger vehicle business.

預計這些領域的時間將成為我們未來的主要成長動力，甚至可能比我們乘用車業務的時間大幾倍。

Take the robotic market as an example.

以機器人市場為例。

The adoption of Lidar in this space is accelerating rapidly.

該領域對光達的應用正在迅速加速。

By the end of 2024, we saw a surge in demand for robotic lawn mowers, one of the emerging verticals.

到 2024 年底，我們將看到對新興垂直產業之一的機器人割草機的需求激增。

And our Lidar are also driving advanced the 3D vision for Unitrees robots.

我們的光達也為 Unitrees 機器人的 3D 視覺提供了先進的支援。

In December alone, we shipped over 20,000 Lidar units for Robotics applications.

僅在 12 月份，我們就為機器人應用運送了超過 20,000 台雷射雷達。

Apple's recently unveiled a robot demo featuring 40 POF light sensors, signaling that humanoid robots and similar technologies will see widespread Lidar adoption in the future.

蘋果最近發布了一款配備 40 個 POF 光感測器的機器人演示，這表明未來人形機器人和類似技術將廣泛採用光達。

Beyond Robotics, Lidar is also gaining traction in stationary applications like airports, ports, and factories.

除了機器人技術之外，光達在機場、港口和工廠等固定應用領域也越來越受歡迎。

A great example is our recent work where our XT series Lidar powers implants driving systems at the BMW's factory.

一個很好的例子是我們最近的工作，我們的 XT 系列雷射雷達為寶馬工廠的植入式駕駛系統提供動力。

As Lidar technology continues to mature, we expect more robotic vertigos, potentially dozens or even hundreds, each will bring new growth opportunities to us.

隨著光達技術的不斷成熟，我們預計會出現更多的機器人眩暈系統，可能達到數十個甚至數百個，每一個都會為我們帶來新的成長機會。

These non-automotive sectors not only offer vast market potential but also come with higher margins.

這些非汽車產業不僅擁有巨大的市場潛力，而且利潤率也更高。

With over a decade of Lidar R&D and a deep expertise built from complex L4 applications, we have established strong advantages in both product performance and batch control and cost control.

我們擁有十餘年雷射雷達研發經驗，以及在複雜的L4應用領域積累的深厚技術積累，在產品性能、批次控制、成本控制等方面都建立了強大的優勢。

Additionally, we are integrating ethic technologies into mechanical Lidars, further enhancing our technology and the cost of leadership in these robotic segments.

此外，我們正在將道德技術融入機械雷射雷達，進一步增強我們在這些機器人領域的技術和成本領先地位。

Take our newly launched JT product, for example, we are excited to spot like the JT mini light up which debuted at CES 2025.

以我們新推出的 JT 產品為例，我們很高興發現在 CES 2025 上首次亮相的 JT mini 發光產品。

And it's quickly becoming a top choice for Robotics.

它很快就成為機器人技術的首選。

It's 70% smaller than similar products, making it incredibly easy to integrate, plus it boasts the world's widest hyper hemispherical 360 field of view, giving robots unmatched, spatial awareness to navigate complex environments and making it ideal for everything from humanoids, robots to delivery robots, cleaning robots, AGVs, and industrial automation.

它比同類產品小 70%，因此非常容易集成，而且它擁有世界上最寬的超半球形 360 視野，為機器人提供了無與倫比的空間感知能力，可以在復雜環境中導航，使其成為從人形機器人、機器人到送貨機器人、清潔機器人、AGV 和工業自動化等一切事物的理想選擇。

Adoption is taking off in just the first month of mass production in December 2024, we shipped over 20,000 units, and our partnership with MOVA for robotic lawnmowers expected to generate a six-digit order next year.

2024 年 12 月量產的第一個月，應用就已開始起飛，我們的出貨量超過 20,000 台，我們與 MOVA 在機器人割草機方面的合作預計明年將產生六位數的訂單。

Regarding on pricing, the JT is priced as a low to mid RMB1,000.

價格方面，JT的售價約在1000元人民幣左右。

As you can imagine, the cost structure is much more efficient than the other mechanical Lidar.

你可以想像，成本結構比其他機械光達高效得多。

Therefore, we expect the gross margins for these Robotic spaces will be similar, if not better, than our other mechanical light up products.

因此，我們預計這些機器人空間的毛利率將與我們的其他機械發光產品相似，甚至更好。

That's the question -- that's the answer to your first question.

這就是問題所在——這就是你第一個問題的答案。

Regards

問候

--

--

I -- David, Andrew, I also, hello, can you hear me?

我──大衛，安德魯，我也是，你好，你聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Oh, hi.

哦，你好。

Hi, Tina.

你好，蒂娜。

I also want to add to your question on the discussion of the gross margin between Lidar for Robotics versus Lidar for ADAS.

我還想補充一下你關於機器人光達與 ADAS 光達之間的毛利率的討論。

I think it's a very interesting question.

我認為這是一個非常有趣的問題。

I want to answer that by giving you a few angles.

我想從幾個角度來回答這個問題。

The first one is that the nature for ADAS Lidar, especially when we're talking about ATX for level 2 plus, this type of applications.

第一個是 ADAS 雷射雷達的性質，尤其是當我們談論 2 級以上的 ATX 時，這種類型的應用。

The nature is that it's a safety part.

本質是安全部分。

It's like an airbag or invisible seatbelt, meaning that it's there, but the chance of you needing that is very, very rare.

它就像安全氣囊或隱形安全帶，也就是說它存在，但你需要它的機會非常非常罕見。

It's only in the one of the millions of the chance you need it.

您需要它的機會只有百萬分之一。

So for that, you want things to be more affordable and you want it to be standard.

因此，您希望產品更實惠，並且希望它成為標準化產品。

And that's why it's close to a very competitive price.

這就是為什麼它的價格非常有競爭力。

But then the nature for Robotics Lidar is a different nature.

但是機器人光達的性質卻不同。

It's not there to be the invisible airbag.

它不是一種隱形的安全氣囊。

Instead, it's the functional parts, meaning that it's taking on a much bigger responsibility for that application which means that such a technology is creating a lot of values.

相反，它是功能部分，這意味著它對該應用程式承擔了更大的責任，這意味著這種技術正在創造很多價值。

For example, if you think about it, the robotic, lawnmowers, it's for navigation purposes.

例如，如果你想一想，機器人、割草機，它們都是為了導航目的。

If you don't have the best Lidar, there's a chance that your lawn mower will get lost, which means that every integrator of such a technology has the incentive to use the best ones, which can be translated directly to growth margin.

如果您沒有最好的雷射雷達，您的割草機就有可能迷路，這意味著每個此類技術的整合商都有動力使用最好的技術，這可以直接轉化為成長利潤。

And the other reason is for commercial reason, and truth be told that in the ADAS market, it's still a reasonably concentrated market to the top 3 to 5 players.

另一個原因是出於商業原因，說實話，在 ADAS 市場，它仍然是一個相當集中的市場，主要集中在前 3 到 5 名參與者手中。

Well, if you look at the Robotics market, the nature is that we have a platform technology.

嗯，如果你看看機器人市場，本質就是我們擁有平台技術。

We have a standardized product like JT.

我們有像JT這樣的標準化產品。

But we never said JT was for lawn mowers.

但我們從未說過 JT 適用於割草機。

It was for really benefits for humanoid, for traffic monitoring, for forklift, for AGVs, and for port and all in all, which means that each of the customer is really a tiny fraction of the entire customer base of such a product, which again, in commercial logic, it translates to higher margin because we're also a tiny part of their bond.

它確實有利於人形機器人、交通監控、堆高機、自動導引車 (AGV)、港口等所有領域，這意味著每個客戶實際上只是該產品整個客戶群的一小部分，同樣，從商業邏輯上講，這意味著更高的利潤，因為我們也是他們債券中的一小部分。

So with those two reasons combined, we actually, firmly believe, not only the robotic techno -- robotic Lidars are going to be a more diversified, bigger market, as well as we focus on the core technology of ASIC and advanced manufacturing to drive the platform.

因此，結合這兩個原因，我們實際上堅信，不僅是機器人技術——機器人光達將成為一個更加多樣化、更大的市場，而且我們專注於 ASIC 和先進製造的核心技術來推動平台的發展。

We also, of course, you already see, we also strongly believe in the longer term that this is going to be a high-margin product.

當然，正如您已經看到的，我們也堅信，從長遠來看，這將是一個高利潤的產品。

And it will continue that way as we see in many other technologies that has very diversified customer base.

而且這種情況還將繼續下去，正如我們在許多其他擁有多樣化客戶群的技術中所看到的那樣。

I hope this helps the question of the first part.

我希望這對第一部分的問題有幫助。

Thanks, Andrew, David.

謝謝，安德魯，大衛。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

Okay.

好的。

Was that another question or

這是另一個問題嗎？

-- ?

-- ？

Yes, the second one is regarding further cost reduction, technology innovation cost production.

是的，第二個是關於進一步降低成本，技術創新成本生產。

Sure.

當然。

So, I think you're probably referring to the discussion between ATX and the level 3 AT platform, right?

所以，我想您可能指的是 ATX 和 3 級 AT 平台之間的討論，對嗎？

So I think, in the longer term, those are actually very different trends.

因此我認為，從長遠來看，這些實際上是非常不同的趨勢。

First, I guess we should talk about ATX which is your main question.

首先，我想我們應該討論一下 ATX，這是您的主要問題。

The short answer is that we don't see a lot of room for this ATX platform to continue to even half of the current price because it's just not the nature of such a technology.

簡而言之，我們認為 ATX 平台的價格不可能再下降到目前價格的一半，因為這不是這種技術的本質。

First of all, we obviously factor in all the economics of scale, what we design such a product because we know it has to reach the $200 level for this to be practical.

首先，我們顯然考慮到了所有的規模經濟，我們設計這樣的產品是因為我們知道它必須達到 200 美元的水平才具有實用性。

And the ATX isn't really as it's like a price reduction version of

ATX 並不是真正的 ATX，因為它就像是

[8128].

[8128]。

It's actually an entirely new product.

它實際上是一個全新的產品。

And it's a new design process with our fourth generation A6 and with the most advanced in-house processes we have.

這是我們第四代 A6 的全新設計流程，採用了我們最先進的內部流程。

And with a strong focus to reduce the size and the cost while still enhancing the core capability of such a product and maintaining a reasonable growth margin for such a product.

並專注於減小尺寸和成本，同時增強此類產品的核心能力並保持此類產品的合理增長幅度。

And when we look at the longer term of such an invisible airbag, invisible seatbelt product, we feel like it's serving a very sweet spot and for the function it delivers.

當我們展望這種隱形安全氣囊、隱形安全帶產品的長期前景時，我們覺得它目前正處於非常有利的地位，並且能夠發揮其應有的作用。

In other words, if we try to further reduce the cost, it's really cutting into a safety part that we don't want to.

換句話說，如果我們試圖進一步降低成本，這實際上就會損害我們不想損害的安全部分。

And for safety purposes, the highest priority is always the function and the reliability, delivers which today we feel like it at the right balance.

而出於安全目的，最高優先順序始終是功能和可靠性，今天我們感覺它們已經達到了正確的平衡。

And of course, we -- when we plan ATX and it's already at the volume, we believe it's right as the airbag.

當然，當我們規劃 ATX 並且它已經達到一定數量時，我們相信它就像安全氣囊一樣正確。

So that's why, we will continue to evolve the technology to make it better and better, but we don't see this price point being further erosion.

因此，我們將繼續改進技術，使其變得越來越好，但我們並不認為這個價格點會進一步下降。

Having said that, I also wanted to point out that the level 3 Lidars are actually going to be in a different category, which is around $500 and up depending on the performance.

話雖如此，我還想指出，3 級雷射雷達實際上屬於不同的類別，根據性能不同，價格在 500 美元左右及以上。

The reason that the level 3 is paying for a much higher price is not only because, of the design of the system, it's also because of the value proposition of such a product.

3 級價格較高的原因不僅是因為系統的設計，也是因為這種產品的價值主張。

So level 3 product, we're really looking at the value created by the vehicle that is much bigger than the level 2 plus plus, which is some urban NOA and the safety belt.

因此，對於 3 級產品，我們真正關注的是車輛所創造的價值，它比 2 級以上產品大得多，即一些城市 NOA 和安全帶。

So level 3, you're looking at a completely new function that most OEMs believe the customers are willing to pay a significant additional money for.

因此，在第 3 級中，您看到的是一個全新的功能，大多數 OEM 認為客戶願意為此支付一大筆額外的費用。

And for that reason, they actually need the best level 3 Lidar to go with that function.

因此，他們實際上需要最好的 3 級光達來實現該功能。

That's why it's a much more expensive, much higher performance Lidar.

這就是為什麼它是一種價格更昂貴、性能更高的光達。

But still, with the 4th generation semi-conductor platform, we also see great value proposition for such a product, but it will never go to the $200 level.

但是，有了第四代半導體平台，我們也看到了這種產品的巨大價值，但它永遠不會達到 200 美元的水平。

It will stay at the $500 above depending on the function.

根據功能不同，價格將保持在 500 美元以上。

Thanks, David.

謝謝，大衛。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

That's all my questions.

這就是我全部的問題。

All right.

好的。

Thank you, Tina, for the great question.

謝謝蒂娜提出的這個好問題。

Jessie Lo, Bank of America Securities.

美國銀行證券公司的 Jessie Lo。

Hi David, Andrew.

嗨，大衛，安德魯。

Thank you for taking my question and congrats on the very brilliant result.

感謝您回答我的問題，並祝賀您所取得的輝煌成果。

Our number one question is, I want to ask one of the very frequent asked questions is also something David just has commented.

我們的首要問題是，我想問的一個非常常見的問題也是大衛剛才評論過的問題。

People think that the ASP decline would potentially offset the volume growth in the next few years, potentially on the ADAS market.

人們認為，ASP 下降可能會抵消未來幾年 ADAS 市場的銷售成長。

But as you mentioned, level 3 is completely different and there might be charging for a $500 kind of price for the OEM and consumers.

但正如您所說，3 級完全不同，可能會向 OEM 和消費者收取 500 美元的費用。

So I guess that is that a question back to like regulatory change because currently the responsibility is still back to the driver themselves that say if they further open up such responsibility, are we seeing like a bigger potential in this market in the longer term?

所以我想這是一個回到監管變化的問題，因為目前責任仍然在司機自己身上，如果他們進一步放開這種責任，我們是否會看到這個市場在長期內有更大的潛力？

That's my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Let me try to make sure I understand your question.

讓我試著確認一下我理解了你的問題。

So your question, you want us to multiply the projected ASP times the volume and your worry is that the ASP will continue to decline, right?

所以您的問題是，您希望我們將預期的 ASP 乘以銷量，而您擔心的是 ASP 會繼續下降，對嗎？

So first, the -- I think the -- my previous answer, hopefully will clear that it was declining in the past because we didn't reach the volume to justify the economics of scale.

所以首先，我想，我之前的回答希望能澄清一點，過去的產量一直在下降，因為我們的產量還沒有達到證明規模經濟的水平。

Today, we believe both the $200 and the $500 are already at the steady state price, which means that I don't believe this is further going down to a $100 level or below $500 for the other Lidar.

今天，我們認為 200 美元和 500 美元都已經處於穩定狀態的價格，這意味著我認為其他雷射雷達的價格不會進一步降至 100 美元或低於 500 美元。

So this is what we clearly see.

這就是我們清楚看到的。

That's the number one, right?

那是第一，對吧？

Number 2 is the penetration rate.

第二是滲透率。

If you look at it, the history of the penetration rate for the past 2-3 years, it's clearly more than doubling every year for the entire market and it's also for us.

如果你看一下過去2-3年的滲透率歷史，你會發現整個市場的滲透率每年顯然都在翻倍以上，我們的滲透率也是如此。

If you look at our volume, we've been doubling, more than doubling our volume for the past four or five years.

如果你看看我們的銷量，你會發現過去四、五年來我們的銷量一直在翻倍，甚至翻了一倍多。

And then for the entire market, it's also a similar trend, which means that one factor is at its bottom.

然後對於整個市場來說，也是類似的趨勢，也就是說一個因素已經到了底部。

And it will stay there.

它會留在那裡。

And the other factor is growing and the penetration that we expect to continue to a much higher level, especially for the level 2 plus plus, which is a really a safety belt.

另一個因素是成長，我們預期滲透率將繼續達到更高的水平，特別是 2 級以上，這確實是一種安全帶。

So, if you think about safety belt in the end, our belief is that every car needs to have such a device, no matter which level you're talking about.

所以，如果你最終考慮安全帶，我們相信每輛車都需要有這樣的裝置，不管你談論的是哪個等級。

Yeah, sir.

是的，先生。

Thank you so much and then I want

非常感謝，然後我想要

--

--

Sorry, just to add a little bit on top of David's answers so to summarize regarding the historical decline of ASP, but our gross profit margin has remained stable and even improving.

抱歉，我只是想在 David 的回答基礎上再補充一點，總結一下 ASP 的歷史下降情況，但我們的毛利率一直保持穩定，甚至有所提高。

Therefore, when we provided the guidance for 2025, both the revenue line and also the gross profit line, we have already factored in this decline of ASP.

因此，當我們提供 2025 年的指導時，無論是收入線還是毛利線，我們都已經考慮到了 ASP 的下降。

And under the current projection of the ASP trends, we're still confident that we can achieve a healthy gross profit margin of around 40%, just this one minor point to add.

而且根據目前的平均售價趨勢預測，我們仍然有信心實現 40% 左右的健康毛利率，這只是一個小的補充。

Andrew, I think Andrew made a great point that even though we repeated it over time, I still want to emphasize the fact that most of the fear in the past is that when we go down in ASP, are we able to continue to innovate on the ASIC and optimize the manufacturing and the supply chain to keep our growth margin steady.

安德魯，我認為安德魯提出了一個很好的觀點，儘管我們隨著時間的推移不斷重複這一點，但我仍然想強調這樣一個事實，過去大多數人的擔心是，當我們的 ASP 下降時，我們是否能夠繼續在 ASIC 上進行創新並優化製造和供應鏈以保持我們的增長利潤率穩定。

I think the answer is yes.

我認為答案是肯定的。

And we have done it, especially considering that we don't believe the ASP will continue to go down.

我們已經這麼做了，特別是考慮到我們不相信 ASP 會繼續下降。

So, the certainty on the gross margin is very high.

因此，毛利率的確定性非常高。

Okay?

好的？

Got, got it.

明白了，明白了。

Thank you so much and my other question would be on the robotic side.

非常感謝，我的另一個問題是關於機器人方面的問題。

So we have already quite successful with the MOVA and autonomy.

我們在 MOVA 和自主性方面已經取得了相當大的成功。

And then I think currently, humanoid robots still yield the biggest excitement.

然後我認為目前，人形機器人仍然是最令人興奮的。

So what other like kind of outlook we can be looking forward to on this robotic segment, especially the humanoid robots?

那麼，在機器人領域，特別是人形機器人領域，我們還能期待什麼樣的前景呢？

Sure.

當然。

I'll quickly answer this question.

我會很快回答這個問題。

So when we're talking about humanoid, we're really talking about different type of Lidars.

因此，當我們談論人形機器人時，我們實際上是在談論不同類型的雷射雷達。

The first one is for humanoid to do localization, meaning you need to know where the humanoid, the robot is.

第一個是人形機器人進行定位，也就是說你需要知道人形機器人在哪裡。

And the GT is actually perfect, and we work with quite a few players in this domain already.

GT 實際上非常完美，而且我們已經與該領域的許多參與者進行了合作。

And there are other sensors that we don't have today, but we don't believe it's the type of light that we do.

而且還有一些我們今天所沒有的其他感測器，但我們不相信這是我們所擁有的光類型。

For example, if you think about the hand, it needs to know what it's grasping.

舉個例子，如果你想想手，它需要知道它正在抓住什麼。

And it's a different type of a 3D sensor.

這是一種不同類型的 3D 感測器。

It's technically still Lidar, but it's a different type of Lidar than what we did producing.

從技術上講，它仍然是雷射雷達，但與我們生產的雷射雷達不同。

And we definitely see a lot of opportunities for humanoid to leverage the mechanical Lidar solution we've developed.

我們確實看到了很多機會，讓人形機器人能夠利用我們開發的機械光達解決方案。

But the truth is that I think it's humanoid.

但事實上我認為它是人類的。

Robots are still also in its early phase for the revolution on the design.

機器人設計革命還處於早期階段。

So our strategy is to continue to leverage our platform semiconductor technology to build what's the best fit for the humanoid technology.

因此，我們的策略是繼續利用我們的平台半導體技術來建構最適合人形技術的產品。

And because our biggest strength isn't light itself.

因為我們最大的優勢不是光本身。

It's the core platform semiconductor we have.

這是我們的核心平台半導體。

And this leadership will always be our biggest strength.

這種領導力永遠是我們最大的力量。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you so much, David and Andrew.

非常感謝，大衛和安德魯。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Any other questions?

還有其他問題嗎？

Oh, that's all from me.

噢，我要說的就這些。

Thank you.

謝謝。

[Ji Liu, BOICI.]

[劉吉，BOICI。

Hello, management.

您好，管理層。

Thank you for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

My first question is regarding the ADAD Lidar adoption phase in overseas market.

我的第一個問題是關於 ADAD 光達在海外市場的採用階段。

Actually, glad to see that we got an exclusive design wing with the top European OEM, recently.

事實上，我們很高興看到我們最近與歐洲頂級 OEM 合作獲得了獨家設計機翼。

But since electrification in European markets seems slower than expected.

但歐洲市場的電氣化進程似乎比預期慢。

And we know that Lidar adoption is closely related to smart EV popularity.

我們知道，光達的採用與智慧電動車的普及密切相關。

So how do we expect our Lidar add up light growth products in overseas markets in coming years?

那麼，我們預期未來幾年我們的光達產品在海外市場將如何成長？

Great.

偉大的。

I will take this question.

我來回答這個問題。

This is David again.

我又是大衛。

So, if you read our announcement carefully, I think the first thing that's interesting to everyone is that it's not only the EV, it's the ICV and EV, which means really all the vehicles.

因此，如果你仔細閱讀我們的公告，我想大家最感興趣的第一件事就是它不僅是電動車，而是智慧網聯汽車和電動車，這實際上意味著所有車輛。

We want to make it clear because look, Lidar is for ADAS, but it's really decoupled from the electrification technology.

我們想要明確一點，因為雖然雷射雷達用於 ADAS，但它實際上與電氣化技術脫鉤。

So that's why the top European carmakers we work with and its major program lasting to the next decade, a global program, meaning it shifts not only to China and also outside China, to many countries around the world.

這就是為什麼我們與歐洲頂級汽車製造商合作，並將其主要項目持續到未來十年，這是一個全球性項目，這意味著它不僅轉移到中國，還轉移到中國以外的許多國家。

And it's across their offerings from EV to ICE.

它涵蓋了從電動車到內燃機汽車的所有產品。

And this is really the trend we see.

這確實是我們看到的趨勢。

We shouldn't be limited by the concept of EV when we think about Lidar.

當我們思考光達時，我們不應該受 EV 概念的限制。

Lidar is really for all the new vehicles who want to have the future of the invisible airbags and the seatbelts.

光達確實適合所有想要擁有隱形安全氣囊和安全帶的新車輛。

So that's why we're limited by that.

這就是我們受到限制的原因。

And we -- the other great thing is that the other global program we already have, they will start to shipping by the end of this year.

另一件很棒的事情是，我們已經擁有的另一個全球計劃將於今年年底開始發貨。

And it will start to be, again, a global program inside and outside China.

它將再次成為中國國內外的一項全球性計劃。

Oh, got it.

哦，明白了。

And any quantitative guidance for our overseas slider shipment?

對我們的海外滑塊出貨量有什麼量化的指導嗎？

Sorry.

對不起。

We don't have this number to offer yet.

我們尚未提供該號碼。

And but, we will work with the OEM on an announcement on the specific numbers and the schedules and the car models.

但是，我們將與 OEM 合作，公佈具體數字、時間表和車型。

Oh, got it.

哦，明白了。

So this OEM's shipment will start next year.

所以這家OEM的出貨量將於明年開始。

We'll start by the end of this year and go into larger volume next year.

我們將在今年年底開始，明年將擴大產量。

And of course, it will last all the way to the next decades.

當然，這種趨勢也將持續到未來幾十年。

Okay.

好的。

Got it.

知道了。

And my second question is regarding the long-term, competitive landscape of ADAS Lidar market.

我的第二個問題是關於 ADAS 光達市場的長期競爭格局。

Yeah, since now we are exclusive Lidar supplier for our key clients such as Li Auto, Xiaomi, and is there any possibility that along with their lighter shipment surge, this key OEMs will find another supplier for Lidar?

是的，既然現在我們是理想汽車、小米等主要客戶的獨家光達供應商，那麼隨著這些主要 OEM 的出貨量增長放緩，是否有可能找到另一家光達供應商？

Or they will remain rely on us as the only Lidar supplier?

或者他們將繼續依賴我們作為唯一的光達供應商？

So in other words, how should we expect our market share in at a Lidar market upside?

換句話說，我們應該如何預期我們的市場份額在雷射雷達市場中上升？

So, first of all, obviously, no OEMs will commit forever using only one supplier, right?

因此，首先，顯然沒有 OEM 會永遠只使用一個供應商，對嗎？

And no one would ever say something like that.

沒有人會說出這樣的話。

So there's always a chance that even though it's exclusive for now, they will continue to evaluate everyone.

因此，儘管目前是獨家的，但他們仍有可能繼續評估每個人。

And we encourage them to do so.

我們鼓勵他們這樣做。

I think the biggest competitive edge is not only that we have ongoing relationship and we're designing in the switch costs high.

我認為最大的競爭優勢不僅在於我們擁有持續的合作關係，而且我們在設計時考慮了高轉換成本。

More importantly, is the competitiveness, right?

更重要的是競爭力，對吧？

In different countries, that competitive is defined differently.

在不同的國家，競爭力的定義有所不同。

For our global customers, it's the performance leadership.

對我們的全球客戶來說，這就是性能領導力。

They always want the best quality, best performance, and that's why they take us exclusively.

他們總是想要最好的品質、最好的性能，這就是為什麼他們只選擇我們。

In China, honestly, it's price.

在中國，說實話，是價格問題。

You need to be very price competitive.

你必須具有很強的價格競爭力。

And we have been very competitive.

我們的競爭力一直都非常強。

But make no mistake, price competitive doesn't mean that we lose margin.

但請不要誤會，價格競爭並不代表我們會失去利潤。

If you look at the margin we compare to our peers, I think it's fair to say that we have a pretty good leadership, which means that as long as we keep our cost down, as long as we keep innovating on the set conductor, we will always have a sizeable GAAP than our peers.

如果你看一下我們與同行相比的利潤率，我認為可以公平地說，我們擁有相當好的領導力，這意味著，只要我們保持低成本，只要我們不斷創新，我們的 GAAP 將始終高於同行。

And it's really difficult for customers to pick somebody who is more expensive and inferior, and somebody they never worked with.

對於客戶來說，選擇一個價格更高、品質更差、甚至從未合作過的人真的非常困難。

You probably shouldn't do that.

你或許不該這麼做。

So that's what -- that's how we try to maintain our leadership.

這就是我們努力保持領導地位的方法。

Okay, got it.

好的，明白了。

That's all for me.

對我來說這就是全部了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yu Zhang, Huatai Securities.

華泰證券張宇。

Hello.

你好。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

My first question is about the guidance.

我的第一個問題是關於指導。

We see a very strong guidance from the company with the shipment increase the over [1.2 million] and the profits reaching RMB200 million to RMB350 million in the GAAP.

我們看到公司給出了非常強勁的預期，出貨量將增加超過[120萬]，利潤將達到2億至3.5億元人民幣（按公認會計準則計算）。

How to achieve the above guidance?

如何實現上述指導？

(spoken in foreign language)

（用外語說）

(spoken in foreign language) As we provided our guidance in the earnings release, the top line grows, we are rather -- we are quite confident of the guidance between RMB3.0 billion to RMB3.5 billion.

（用外語說）正如我們在獲利報告中提供的指引那樣，營收將成長，我們對 30 億元至 35 億元之間的指引非常有信心。

That is based on the orders from our various clients that has already provided.

這是基於我們已經提供的各客戶的訂單。

And the reason why this volume growth is quite strong is because our top customers including the Auto, Xiaomi, BYD, and Li Motor, all increased their sales target and also the Lidar adoption rates in year 2025.

銷售成長強勁的原因是，我們的頂級客戶包括大眾汽車、小米、比亞迪和李汽車，都提高了 2025 年的銷售目標以及雷射雷達的採用率。

Some car modules have been selling Lidar as standard configuration.

一些汽車模組已經將光達作為標準配置出售。

That's how we got our revenue guidance and with the 40% gross margin assumed, we are going to have about additional, we are going to have generated an additional of RMB400 million to RMB600 million in gross profit.

這就是我們的收入預期，假設毛利率為40%，我們將額外創造4億至6億元人民幣的毛利。

That's the improvements to net profit at GP level.

這就是 GP 層面淨利的提高。

Regarding the expenses management in year 2025, we are committed to elevating expenses management to new heights, ensuring enhanced efficiency and financial discipline.

對於2025年的費用管理，我們致力於將費用管理提升到新的高度，確保提高效率和財務紀律。

We expect that our total OPEC to be slightly lower than year 2025.

我們預計，2025 年 OPEC 產量總量將略低於這一水平。

If you look at our financial statements in 2024, our total OPEC is close to RMB1.4 billion in year 2024.

如果你看我們2024年的財務報表，我們2024年的總OPEC接近14億元人民幣。

We expected that this number in year 2025 will be lower.

我們預計 2025 年這個數字將會更低。

So if you take these two factors together, it is not so difficult to get to the bottom-line level number, which is a GAAP net profit of about RMB200 million to RMB350 million and a non-GAAP net profit of about RMB350 million to RMB500 million.

所以如果把這兩個因素結合起來，要得出最終的淨利並不難，也就是GAAP淨利約2億到3.5億元人民幣，非GAAP淨利約3.5億到5億元。

That's my answer to your questions regarding that profit guidance.

這就是我對您有關利潤指引的問題的回答。

Oh. Thanks very much.

哦。非常感謝。

And my second question is about the Robotics applications.

我的第二個問題是關於機器人應用。

Why the Lidar will be used in the Robotics for a long time?

為什麼光達會在機器人領域長期被應用？

And what's the primary function in the robotic system?

機器人系統的主要功能是什麼？

(spoken in foreign language)

（用外語說）

Yeah.

是的。

I'll take this question.

我來回答這個問題。

So, I understand your logic but let me give you a counterexample.

因此，我理解你的邏輯，但讓我給你一個反例。

The easiest example to counter your argument is the robotic, vacuum cleaner, right?

反駁你的論點的最簡單的例子就是機器人吸塵器，對嗎？

You would think that it's so slow and so cheap.

你可能會認為它很慢而且很便宜。

And it really doesn't kill people when they bump into things.

而且它確實不會撞到東西而殺死人。

And yet, every new robotic vacuum cleaner has a Lidar.

然而，每個新型機器人吸塵器都配備了雷射雷達。

Of course, it's not a Lidar from us.

當然，這不是我們的光達。

It's a much cheaper one.

這是一個便宜得多的。

But you know, you think about why would they do that?

但你知道，你想想他們為什麼要這麼做嗎？

It's very simple.

這非常簡單。

It has certain functions.

它有一定的功能。

You need to do slam, meaning that you need to create a map, you need to know where that is.

你需要做大滿貫，這意味著你需要創建一個地圖，你需要知道它在哪裡。

And yet, if you use a camera to do that, it's not a great product.

然而，如果你使用相機來做這件事，它就不是一個很好的產品。

So they need a very good Lidar to do that.

所以他們需要非常好的光達來實現這一點。

Of course, that function needs to match the price needs to match that function.

當然，功能需要與價格相匹配，價格也需要與功能相匹配。

Similarly, with humanoid, the robot, it still needs to map what's around you.

同樣地，對於人形機器人來說，它仍然需要繪製周圍的環境圖。

And even though you think it's slow, it's still very costly when you trip on something, or you bump into something or miss grabbing an egg or a bottle or something.

即使你認為它很慢，但當你被什麼東西絆倒、撞到東西或沒能拿到雞蛋、瓶子或其他東西時，代價仍然很大。

So, in the end, it's not about 2D versus 3D.

所以，歸根究底，這並不是 2D 與 3D 之爭的問題。

It's about how much it costs on 3D versus whether I need this 3D to create a valuable function for me.

關鍵在於 3D 的成本是多少以及我是否需要這個 3D 來為我創建有價值的功能。

Again, whenever you think about it, think about the robotic vacuum cleaner, okay?

再說一次，無論什麼時候思考這個問題，就想想機器人吸塵器，好嗎？

Oh, okay.

哦好的。

Thanks.

謝謝。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

And that's all my questions.

這就是我的全部問題。

Thanks.

謝謝。

[Xi Huang, SPTBI]

[黃曦，SPTBI]

Hi, management team.

嗨，管理團隊。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

This is Xi from SPTBI.

我是 SPTBI 的 Xi。

I've just got one question on our capacity and CapEx plan.

我對我們的產能和資本支出計畫只有一個問題。

Since demand seems strong in both Auto and Robotic sectors and as you mentioned, we are now launching new product lines.

由於汽車和機器人領域的需求似乎都很強勁，正如您所說，我們現在正在推出新的產品線。

So my question is, we have an updated CapEx plan in 2025 and 2026?

所以我的問題是，我們在 2025 年和 2026 年有更新的資本支出計畫嗎？

Sure, I'll take this question.

當然，我會回答這個問題。

So with this strong demand, our CapEx in year 2025 will mainly be used to launch our new production lines, both domestically and globally.

因此，在這種強勁需求的情況下，我們 2025 年的資本支出將主要用於在國內和全球啟動新的生產線。

We are launching two new production lines in Q1 in China, which will begin production in Q3 this year.

我們將於今年第一季在中國啟動兩條新生產線，並將於今年第三季開始生產。

By the end of 2025, our annualized production capacity is expected to reach about 2 million units.

到2025年底，我們的年產能預計將達到約200萬台。

We believe that this production capacity can satisfy our demand in this year.

我們相信這個產能可以滿足我們今年的需求。

Meanwhile, as our collaboration with global carmakers deepen, for example, our exclusive contract with the top European OEM as David just mentioned.

同時，隨著我們與全球汽車製造商的合作不斷加深，例如剛才David提到的與歐洲頂級OEM廠商的獨家合約。

We may consider the possibility of establishing overseas manufacturing facilities in Southeast Asia in the future.

未來我們可能會考慮在東南亞建立海外生產工廠的可能性。

We have already developed a preliminary plan and are taking steps towards the target.

我們已經制定了初步計劃並正在朝著目標邁進。

Furthermore, our highly automated production technology enables us to set up an overseas production line with well managed CapEx numbers and in a relatively short time period.

此外，我們高度自動化的生產技術使我們能夠在相對較短的時間內建立一條擁有良好資本支出管理的海外生產線。

Hence, we expect 2025 full-year CapEx, should be around $30 million to $50 million in total.

因此，我們預計 2025 年全年資本支出總額應在 3,000 萬至 5,000 萬美元左右。

And we have sufficient financial resources to support this CapEx.

而且我們有足夠的財務資源來支持這筆資本支出。

Oh, that's very clear.

噢，那很清楚。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Unfortunately, that does conclude our time for questions.

不幸的是，我們的提問時間到此結束。

I'll now hand back to the company for any closing remarks.

現在我將把發言權交還給公司，以便大家做最後發言。

Thank you once again for joining us today.

再次感謝您今天的參與。

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our IR team.

如果您還有任何其他問題，請隨時聯絡我們的 IR 團隊。

This concludes today's call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

And we look forward to speaking to you again next quarter.

我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。

Thank you and goodbye.

謝謝你，再見。

That does conclude our conference for today.

今天的會議就到此結束了。

Thank you for participating.

感謝您的參與。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。