Hesai Group (HSAI) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, ladies and gentlemen.

女士們、先生們，大家好。

Thank you for standing by.

謝謝你的支持。

Welcome to Hesai Group's third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call.

歡迎參加禾賽集團2024年第三季財報電話會議。

At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode.

此時，所有參與者都處於只聽模式。

Please note that today's conference call is being recorded.

請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the call over to our first speaker today, Yuanting Shi, the company's Investor Relations Director.

現在我將把電話轉給我們今天的第一位發言人，公司投資者關係總監施元廷。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you (inaudible) Hello, everyone and thank you for joining Hesai Group third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call.

謝謝（聽不清楚）大家好，謝謝大家參加禾賽集團2024年第三季財報電話會議。

Our earnings release is now available on our IR website at investor.hesaitech.com as well as via news services.

我們的收益報告現已在我們的投資者關係網站 Investor.hesaitech.com 以及新聞服務上發布。

Today, you will hear from our CEO, Dr. David Li, who will provide an overview of our recent updates.

今天，您將聽到我們的執行長 David Li 博士的講話，他將概述我們最近的更新。

Next, we would like to welcome our new CFO, Mr. Andrew Fan, who address our financial results before we open the call for questions.

接下來，我們要歡迎我們的新任財務長 Andrew Fan 先生，他在我們開始提問之前介紹了我們的財務表現。

Before we continue.

在我們繼續之前。

I refer you to the safe public statement in our earnings press release which applies to this call as we will make forward-looking statements.

我建議您參閱我們的收益新聞稿中適用於本次電話會議的安全公開聲明，因為我們將做出前瞻性聲明。

Please also note that the company will discuss non-GAAP measures today which are more thoroughly explained and reconciled to the most comparable measures reported on the GAAP in our earnings release and SEC filings.

另請注意，該公司今天將討論非 GAAP 衡量標準，這些衡量標準將與我們的收益發布和 SEC 文件中報告的 GAAP 最具可比性的衡量標準進行更徹底的解釋和協調。

With that, I'm pleased to turn over the call to our CEO, Dr. David Li.

至此，我很高興將電話轉給我們的執行長李大衛博士。

David, please go ahead.

大衛，請繼續。

Thank you, Yuating and thank you everyone for joining our call today.

謝謝你，宇廷，也謝謝大家今天加入我們的電話會議。

Let's start with an overview of this quarter's progress.

讓我們先概述本季的進展。

First, we surpassed the high end of our revenue guidance for the third quarter, delivering net revenue of RMB539.4 million and maintaining a strong growth trajectory.

首先，我們超越了第三季營收指引的上限，實現淨收入人民幣 5.394 億元，並維持強勁的成長軌跡。

We also continue to accelerate lighter adoption among our customers.

我們也持續加速客戶對輕量級的採用。

We delivered a total of over 134,000 units during the third quarter, marking our second consecutive quarter of nearly 50% sequential growth.

第三季我們總共交付了超過 134,000 台，標誌著我們連續第二個季度實現近 50% 的環比增長。

This trend underscores a growing recognition of the value that lidar brings to autonomous driving systems and we're confident that this momentum will carry into the remainder of 2024 and next year.

這一趨勢凸顯了人們越來越認識到光達為自動駕駛系統帶來的價值，我們相信這種勢頭將持續到 2024 年剩餘時間和明年。

Second, our strong commitment to operational efficiency and financial discipline has enabled us to consistently reduce our GAAP net loss for four consecutive quarters.

其次，我們對營運效率和財務紀律的堅定承諾使我們能夠連續四個季度持續減少 GAAP 淨虧損。

Fueled by powerful trends and exceptional finance performance were moving full speed ahead towards a monumental goal.

在強大的趨勢和卓越的財務表現的推動下，我們正全速朝著宏偉的目標前進。

A projected revenue of USD100 million with an estimated net profit of USD20 million for the fourth quarter alone.

僅第四季度預計收入為 1 億美元，淨利潤為 2,000 萬美元。

We couldn't be more excited as we are now projecting full year profitability on a non-GAAP basis for 2024 making us the first automotive lighter company worldwide to reach this remarkable milestone.

我們非常興奮，因為我們現在預計 2024 年按非公認會計準則計算的全年盈利能力將使我們成為全球第一家實現這一非凡里程碑的汽車打火機公司。

This put us on a path to close the physical year with an unprecedented overall financial performance.

這使我們能夠以前所未有的整體財務業績結束本年度。

Looking at the broader industry landscape, lighter technology is increasingly recognized as a key driver in the advancement of autonomous driving.

放眼更廣闊的產業格局，更輕的技術越來越被認為是自動駕駛進步的關鍵驅動力。

According to recent data from Gaso, a leading automotive industry information service platform, approximately two-thirds of the models with highway NOA are now equipped with lidar.

根據領先的汽車行業資訊服務平台加索最新數據顯示，目前擁有高速公路NOA的車型中約有三分之二配備了雷射雷達。

And the city NOA models have achieved 100% lidar adoption.

城市NOA模型已實現100%雷射雷達採用。

Moreover, a recent research report projected a strong increase in level two and level two plus (inaudible) adoption in China estimating a 40% penetration rate for 2024 and 50% by 2025.

此外，最近的一份研究報告預計，中國二級和二級以上（聽不清楚）的普及率將強勁增長，預計 2024 年滲透率將達到 40%，到 2025 年將達到 50%。

A key turning point is anticipated in 2026 with the introduction of level three autonomous driving solutions which will demand even higher standards for perception and safety capabilities.

隨著三級自動駕駛解決方案的推出，預計 2026 年將出現一個關鍵轉折點，這將對感知和安全能力提出更高的標準。

This evolution marks an exciting phase of market extension and the technological progress in the autonomous driving sector as the analysis indicates that not only will more advanced vehicles adopt lighter technologies, but they will also likely employ multiple lighter units to create a 200 to 300 meter safety buffer, significantly enhancing overall safety standards.

這一演變標誌著自動駕駛領域市場拓展和技術進步的一個令人興奮的階段，因為分析表明，更先進的車輛不僅會採用更輕的技術，而且它們還可能採用多個更輕的單元來創造200至300 公尺的安全距離緩衝，顯著提高整體安全標準。

A recent US safety investigation highlights the critical role of lidar technology in vehicle safety systems.

美國最近的一項安全調查凸顯了雷射雷達技術在車輛安全系統中的關鍵作用。

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA has launched a probe into around 2.4 million vehicles equipped with vision only ADAS system after collisions occur in low visibility conditions like fog and glare.

美國國家公路交通安全管理局 (NHTSA) 已對約 240 萬輛配備僅視覺 ADAS 系統的車輛在霧和強光等低能見度條件下發生碰撞後展開調查。

These incidents have exposed the limitations of relying solely on a camera based system for vehicle safety.

這些事件暴露了僅依靠基於攝影機的系統來確保車輛安全的限制。

Raising a critical question is a vision only approach truly sufficient for autonomous driving.

提出一個關鍵問題是只有視覺的方法才真正足以實現自動駕駛。

While future AI and vision language models will undoubtedly enhance vision only systems, they will still require extensive training and remain vulnerable in low visibility scenarios.

雖然未來的人工智慧和視覺語言模型無疑將增強純視覺系統，但它們仍然需要大量的培訓，並且在低能見度場景中仍然容易受到攻擊。

In contrast lidar generates its own light and offers a real depth measurement without depending on vision algorithms which may struggle in poor visibility conditions or with irregular objects.

相較之下，光達會產生自己的光，並提供真實的深度測量，而不依賴視覺演算法，而視覺演算法在能見度較差的條件或不規則的物體上可能會很困難。

With lidar becoming more affordable and scalable, it directly addresses the limitations of vision only system.

隨著光達變得更加經濟實惠和可擴展，它直接解決了純視覺系統的限制。

We believe that adopting lidar which functions like an active seat belt or airbag alongside with cameras is essential for improving safety in autonomous driving, making it as safe if not safer than human drivers.

我們相信，採用與攝影機類似的功能類似於主動安全帶或安全氣囊的雷射雷達對於提高自動駕駛的安全性至關重要，使其與人類駕駛員一樣安全，甚至更安全。

Now let's shift our discussion to our roster of ADAS clients, who are strong advocates for integrating lidar into their system.

現在，讓我們將討論轉向 ADAS 客戶名冊，他們是將光達整合到其係統中的強烈倡導者。

The auto our largest data clients achieved a remarkable milestone by producing its 1 million vehicle in October, which also marked a proud moment for us showcasing our success in supporting the (inaudible) rapid growth as well as maintaining a leading share of the lidar market in China.

我們最大的數據客戶汽車公司在10 月生產了100 萬輛汽車，實現了一個非凡的里程碑，這也標誌著我們的一個值得驕傲的時刻，展示了我們在支持（聽不清）快速增長以及保持光達市場領先份額方面所取得的成功。

We're confident that this momentum will continue as our OEM partners pursue new goals, further cementing our role as a key supplier in a sector.

我們相信，隨著我們的 OEM 合作夥伴追求新目標，這種勢頭將持續下去，進一步鞏固我們作為該行業主要供應商的角色。

We also recently secured a new platform win with Leapmotor, a leading EV maker in China and facelift of two flash models with a premium EV brand backed by a leading Chinese automotive group production of these models is expected to commence in 2025.

我們最近也贏得了中國領先的電動車製造商零跑車的新平台，並在中國領先的汽車集團的支持下，對兩款高端電動車品牌的閃存車型進行了改款，預計將於2025 年開始生產。

I will be serving as the exclusive main lighter supplier for these new wins.

我將作為這些新勝利的獨家主要打火機供應商。

This exclusivity reflects the trust and confidence that these manufacturers place in our technology while broadening our presence in the rapidly growing EV market.

這種排他性反映了這些製造商對我們技術的信任和信心，同時擴大了我們在快速成長的電動車市場的影響力。

What's more?

還有什麼？

We're thrilled to announce a new collaboration with a leading EV manufacturer in China as one of our top customers by shipment volume and a leader in the EV industry.

我們很高興宣布與中國一家領先的電動車製造商建立新的合作關係，該製造商是我們出貨量最大的客戶之一，也是電動車產業的領導者。

This pioneering OEM has also exclusively selected our next generation level three ultra-high performance lidar alongside with the cost effective adx lidar to power their upcoming models slated for release in 2025.

這家開創性的 OEM 還專門選擇了我們的下一代三級超高性能雷射雷達以及具有成本效益的 adx 雷射雷達，為其計劃於 2025 年發布的即將推出的型號提供動力。

Building on this momentum, our ATX lidar is rapidly approaching its SOB phase.

在此勢頭的基礎上，我們的 ATX 光達正迅速接近 SOB 階段。

Its innovative integrated design and exceptional cost efficiency have already sparked significant interest with multiple customers planning to adopt it as a standard feature in their 2025 lineup.

其創新的整合設計和卓越的成本效率已經引起了許多客戶的極大興趣，並計劃將其作為 2025 年產品線的標準功能。

The future of scalable intelligent driving is here and we're proud to lead the way.

可擴展智慧駕駛的未來已經到來，我們很自豪能夠引領潮流。

This quarter's success extends beyond the domestic ADAS market.

本季的成功不僅限於國內 ADAS 市場。

With the new progress in expanding our global reach.

隨著我們在擴大全球影響力方面取得新進展。

First, our worldwide shipping programs with a leading global automotive OEM have advanced through several critical phases to the successful delivery of the sample units.

首先，我們與全球領先的汽車原始設備製造商的全球運輸計劃已通過幾個關鍵階段，成功交付了樣品。

A key step in validating our technology's performance and ensuring that it's aligned with our partners standard.

這是驗證我們的技術性能並確保其符合我們的合作夥伴標準的關鍵一步。

These samples are essential for assessing how our lidar solutions perform under real world conditions and verifying their integration into the OEM vehicle platforms.

這些樣本對於評估我們的雷射雷達解決方案在現實條件下的表現以及驗證其與 OEM 車輛平台的整合至關重要。

Our progress also enhances our position as a vital contributor to the global automotive ecosystem, helping shape the next generation of vehicles that will define the future of mobility.

我們的進步也增強了我們作為全球汽車生態系統重要貢獻者的地位，幫助塑造定義移動出行未來的下一代車輛。

Furthermore, we recently signed a cooperative framework with SAIC Volkswagen for an automotive lidar program, marking a new chapter in our partnership and elevating our position to a strategic supplier for the top selling automotive joint venture in China by sales volume.

此外，我們最近與上汽大眾簽署了汽車光達專案合作框架，標誌著我們的合作夥伴關係翻開了新的篇章，並將我們的地位提升為中國銷量最高的汽車合資企業的戰略供應商。

Together, we aim to innovatively integrate advanced lidar technology into vehicles, enhancing safety and automation features while propelling the OEM's vision for smart vehicle innovation.

我們共同致力於以創新方式將先進的光達技術整合到車輛中，增強安全性和自動化功能，同時推動 OEM 實現智慧車輛創新的願景。

To date, we have secured the design wins with five prominent global OEM including four joint ventures in China with two Americans and two European automotive companies.

迄今為止，我們已經贏得了五家全球知名 OEM 的設計勝利，其中包括四家與兩家美國和兩家歐洲汽車公司在中國成立的合資企業。

These joint venture collaborations enable us to leverage our partners established network, resources and expertise.

這些合資企業合作使我們能夠利用合作夥伴建立的網路、資源和專業知識。

The guidance has been instrumental in enhancing our collaborative capabilities, helping us streamline operations and meet global standards more effectively.

該指南有助於增強我們的協作能力，幫助我們簡化營運並更有效地滿足全球標準。

We believe our strategic alignment will position us to capitalize on emerging opportunities and to pave the way for our participation in the global supply chain.

我們相信，我們的策略聯盟將使我們能夠利用新興機遇，並為我們參與全球供應鏈鋪平道路。

Our effort to expand our global footprint across broader Asia market have also yielded positive results.

我們在更廣闊的亞洲市場擴大全球足跡的努力也取得了積極成果。

We're delighted to announce two newly secured development projects, both proof of concept POC programs with a top three OEM in Japan, these programs cover both level two plus passenger vehicles and level four robotaxi applications highlighting our growing influence and the capabilities in diverse segment of the ADAS and AM market.

我們很高興地宣布兩個新獲得的開發項目，都是與日本三大OEM 進行的概念驗證POC 項目，這些項目涵蓋二級以上乘用車和四級機器人出租車應用，凸顯了我們在不同領域不斷增長的影響力和能力ADAS 和 AM 市場。

Securing these POC projects with a leading OEM in Japan underscores the trust placed in our technology and expertise while providing a valuable opportunity to showcase our lidar systems functionality across various scenarios.

與日本領先的 OEM 合作確保這些 POC 專案突顯了對我們技術和專業知識的信任，同時提供了一個寶貴的機會來展示我們在各種場景中的雷射雷達系統功能。

Currently, we have four POT programs underway with three global OEMs and we're excited about the potential of these partnerships as they move into the next phase.

目前，我們正在與三個全球原始設備製造商開展四個 POT 項目，我們對這些合作夥伴關係進入下一階段時的潛力感到興奮。

Over the past two years, both Hesai and border lidar industry have largely concentrated on ADAS sector which has seen substantial growth driven by rapid advancements in intelligent driving particularly in China.

過去兩年，禾賽和邊境雷射雷達產業主要集中在ADAS領域，在智慧駕駛的快速發展（尤其是中國）的推動下，ADAS領域出現了大幅成長。

While the ADAS sector will remain a key focus.

ADAS 領域仍將是重點領域。

We're also committed to exploring the opportunities in the broader autonomous mobility market where we have traditionally held a significant global share as a market that prioritizes, performance over price sensitivity, autonomous mobility offers exciting growth opportunity as a new valuable use cases to continue to emerge.

我們也致力於探索更廣泛的自動駕駛行動市場的機會，在這個市場中，我們傳統上佔據著重要的全球份額，作為一個優先考慮性能而非價格敏感性的市場，自動駕駛移動作為新的有價值的用例，提供了令人興奮的成長機會，以繼續出現。

In September, we unveiled our latest flagship 360 degree mechanical automotive grid, long range lidar OT128 at the 2024 IAA transportation fair in Germany.

9 月，我們在 2024 年德國 IAA 交通博覽會上推出了最新的旗艦 360 度機械汽車網格、遠程雷射雷達 OT128。

Inheriting 95% of the key components from her best-selling AT120 P ADAS lidar OT128 boasts a point rate of 3.45 million per second and a 200 m detection range at 10% reflectivity.

OT128繼承了她最暢銷的AT120 P ADAS雷射雷達95%的關鍵零件，擁有每秒345萬點的點速率和10%反射率下200 m的偵測範圍。

This high performance 360 degree mechanical automotive perception light with a market proven vertically integrated architecture makes OT128 an ideal solution for scalable applications including robotaxis, industrial robotics, smart factories and logistics.

這款高性能 360 度機械汽車感知燈具有經過市場驗證的垂直整合架構，使 OT128 成為機器人軸、工業機器人、智慧工廠和物流等可擴展應用的理想解決方案。

OT128 also integrated proprietary or weather perception system.

OT128也整合了專有或天氣感知系統。

The Intelligence Point Cloud engine to enable effective detection of rain, fog, exhaust fuel and water slashes.

智慧點雲引擎能夠有效偵測雨、霧、廢氣燃料和水斜線。

Distinguishing it as a unique and innovative mechanical lidar offering in the market.

使其成為市場上獨特且創新的機械光達產品。

Since its debut, OT128 has made a strong impression in the market emphasizing our technology's potential across diverse application scenarios and autonomous systems.

自首次亮相以來，OT128 在市場上留下了深刻的印象，並強調了我們的技術在不同應用場景和自主系統中的潛力。

We have already secured contracts for OT128 with 90 plus global and domestic clients such as we read Westwell Embot (inaudible) and Myle and the production and delivery have already begun.

我們已經與 Westwell Embot（聽不清楚）和 Myle 等 90 多家全球和國內客戶簽訂了 OT128 合同，生產和交付已經開始。

Notably, our OT128 lidar played an instrumental role in the success of the champion autonomous race car at Formula student Germany 2024, the world's largest competition for electric and driverless vehicles.

值得注意的是，我們的 OT128 雷射雷達在 2024 年德國學生方程式大賽（世界上最大的電動和無人駕駛汽車競賽）的冠軍自動駕駛賽車的成功中發揮了重要作用。

These early successes highlight the growing recognition of our advanced lidar solutions across a wide range of industries.

這些早期的成功凸顯了我們的先進光達解決方案在各個行業中日益得到認可。

We remain committed to exploring new use cases and engaging new customers in both the ADAS and AM sectors leveraging our lineup of versatile lidars.

我們仍然致力於利用我們的多功能雷射雷達系列探索新的用例並吸引 ADAS 和 AM 領域的新客戶。

Last but not least, I would like to introduce Mr. Andrew Fan who has recently joined Hazai as our new CFO.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是，我想介紹一下最近加入 Hazai 擔任我們新任財務長的 Andrew Fan 先生。

With over 18 years of experts in accounting and corporate finance.

擁有超過 18 年的會計和企業財務專家。

We're confident that he will further strengthen our financial management, enhance our engagement with the investor community and help us create sustainable value for her side and our shareholders.

我們相信，他將進一步加強我們的財務管理，加強我們與投資者社群的互動，並幫助我們為她方和我們的股東創造可持續的價值。

Welcome Andrew.

歡迎安德魯。

At this point, I will now turn the call over to Andrew to share more details on our financial performance and outlook.

現在，我將把電話轉給安德魯，分享更多有關我們財務業績和前景的細節。

Andrew, please go ahead.

安德魯，請繼續。

Thank you, David and hello everyone.

謝謝你，大衛，大家好。

Let's go through our operating and financial figures for the third quarter of 2024.

讓我們來看看 2024 年第三季的營運和財務數據。

To be mindful for the length of our earnings call today, I encourage listeners to refer to our third quarter earnings release for further details.

為了注意我們今天財報電話會議的長度，我鼓勵聽眾參考我們的第三季財報發布以了解更多詳細資訊。

Starting with numbers in the third quarter, we achieved the quarterly revenues of RMB539.4 million or USD76.9 million, surpassing the high end of our revenue guidance.

從第三季的數據開始，我們實現了季度收入 5.394 億元人民幣（7,690 萬美元），超過了收入指導的上限。

The robust momentum across our revenue streams was supported by strong lidar shipments of over 134,000 units this quarter marking our second consecutive quarter of nearly 50% sequential shipment growth.

本季度雷射雷達出貨量超過 134,000 台，為我們收入流的強勁勢頭提供了支撐，這標誌著我們連續第二個季度實現近 50% 的連續出貨量增長。

Shipments this year are distributed more broadly across a diverse range of customers, reflecting a significant increase in customer diversification compared to the previous year.

今年的出貨量分佈在更廣泛的客戶群中，反映出與前一年相比客戶多元化顯著增加。

Meanwhile, our blended growth margin remains robust at approximately 47.7%.

同時，我們的混合成長率仍然強勁，約為 47.7%。

Thanks to effective cost management and our flywheel approach to cost and scale optimization.

由於有效的成本管理以及我​​們的成本和規模優化飛輪方法。

The margin was further bolstered by NRE revenues from our L4 lidar, which is being prepared for potential large scale deployment by a leading global robotaxi player in the coming years.

我們的 L4 雷射雷達的 NRE 收入進一步提振了利潤率，該收入正在為全球領先的機器人計程車公司在未來幾年的潛在大規模部署做好準備。

As a result, our quarterly GAAP net loss has narrowed for four consecutive quarters.

因此，我們的季度 GAAP 淨虧損已連續四個季度收窄。

This consistent improvement reflects our commitment to operational efficiency and financial discipline, enabling us to better manage our resources while focusing on sustainable growth.

這種持續的改進反映了我們對營運效率和財務紀律的承諾，使我們能夠更好地管理我們的資源，同時專注於永續成長。

Looking ahead, we are expecting a record breaking fourth quarter with light shipments projected to reach 200,000 units and astoning volume nearly matching our total shipments in 2023.

展望未來，我們預計第四季將打破紀錄，輕型出貨量預計將達到 20 萬台，驚人的出貨量幾乎與我們 2023 年的總出貨量相當。

Based on our current estimates, fourth quarter, net revenues are expected to fall to nearly USD100 million, delivering an estimated net profit of USD20 million and a positive operating cash flow.

根據我們目前的預測，第四季淨收入預計將降至近 1 億美元，淨利潤預計為 2,000 萬美元，營運現金流為正。

Additionally, we anticipate achieving full year profitability on a non-GAAP basis for 2024, positioning us to become the first automotive lidar company worldwide to reach this notable milestone.

此外，我們預計在非 GAAP 基礎上於 2024 年實現全年盈利，使我們成為全球第一家實現這一重要里程碑的汽車雷射雷達公司。

This anticipated explosive growth underscores our unstoppable momentum as we drive towards a landmark fiscal year finish.

這種預期的爆炸性成長凸顯了我們在邁向具有里程碑意義的財政年度結束時不可阻擋的勢頭。

We would like to remind you that this outlook is based on the current market conditions and reflects the company's preliminary estimate of market and operating conditions and customer demands which are all subject to change.

我們謹提醒您，該展望基於當前市場狀況，反映了公司對市場和經營狀況以及客戶需求的初步估計，這些估計可能會發生變化。

In conclusion, our strong market acquisition capabilities, robust financial performance and commitment to operational excellence have positioned us for a successful close to 2024.

總之，我們強大的市場獲取能力、穩健的財務表現和對卓越營運的承諾使我們能夠在 2024 年取得成功。

We are proud of the progress, we have achieved and are enthusiastic about the opportunities ahead.

我們為所取得的進步、所取得的成就感到自豪，並對未來的機會充滿熱情。

Thank you for your continued trust and support as we work to build a stronger future for Hesai and the global industry.

感謝您一直以來的信任與支持，我們致力於為禾賽和全球產業打造更美好的未來。

This concludes our prepared remarks today.

我們今天準備好的演講到此結束。

Operator, we are now ready to take questions.

接線員，我們現在準備好回答問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Cindy Huang, Morgan Stanley.

辛迪·黃，摩根士丹利。

Hi, thanks for taking my question.

您好，感謝您提出我的問題。

This is Cindy from Morgan Stanley.

我是摩根士丹利的辛蒂。

So my first question is what's the latest development of the contention between COFI and USB OD?

那麼我的第一個問題是COFI和USB OD之爭的最新進展如何？

And while that this build involves no band.

雖然這個構建不涉及樂隊。

And when do you expect the overhand could be fully removed?

您預期什麼時候可以完全消除過度的行為？

And our old projects are scheduled for 2025 (inaudible) in the United States are still on track?

我們原定於 2025 年（聽不清楚）在美國的舊項目是否仍在按計劃進行？

Hi.

你好。

Thank you for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

This is David Li and I want to give you some updates on the 1,268 lawsuit progress.

我是李大衛，我想向大家介紹 1,268 起訴訟的最新進展。

Well, first, we're glad to see that the DOD actually removed Hesai from the 1268 list in October.

嗯，首先，我們很高興看到國防部實際上在 10 月將賀賽從 1268 名單中刪除了。

And this delisting was undoubtedly a win for us as the DOD has acknowledged and correct their earnest and the baseless decisions from January by removing us from the list.

這次除名對我們來說無疑是一次勝利，因為國防部承認並糾正了他們一月份做出的認真而毫無根據的決定，將我們從名單中刪除。

We believe it's also validated the truthfulness of our position, which has remained consistent throughout this entire process.

我們相信，這也驗證了我們立場的真實性，我們的立場在整個過程中始終保持一致。

However, we are disappointed that the DOD relied us on a different basis after acknowledging that its original evidence was insufficient, we had hoped that the DOD would correct its mistakes and move on.

然而，令我們失望的是，國防部在承認其原始證據不足後，卻以不同的基礎依賴我們，我們原本希望國防部能夠糾正錯誤並繼續前進。

But instead it has continued to falsely accuse us of associating with the Chinese military.

但它卻繼續誣衊我們與中國軍方有聯繫。

This is especially frustrating because the government never really asked us a single question or try to confirm any facts with us before they made the decision to relist us.

這尤其令人沮喪，因為政府在決定將我們重新列入名單之前從未真正問過我們任何問題或試圖向我們確認任何事實。

And the government did share with us the new basis of our realisting, though due to the ongoing nature of the lawsuit, we're currently limited in what we can discuss from our first reading media realize that the quote unquote new evidence and it's a quote unquote rationale are just as faulty and flawed as the original listing was.

政府確實與我們分享了我們現實化的新基礎，儘管由於訴訟的持續性質，我們目前可以從我們的第一個閱讀媒體中討論的內容有限，意識到引用未引用新證據，它只是引用未引用的理由與原始清單一樣有缺陷和缺陷。

We can state definitely that DOD has not accused Hesai of being owned or controlled by any military bodies, selling products to any military bodies or otherwise directly supporting any military bodies.

我們可以肯定地說，國防部沒有指控禾賽被任何軍事機構擁有或控制、向任何軍事機構出售產品或以其他方式直接支持任何軍事機構。

The DOD that puts forward vague claims that Hesai has somehow supports Chinese military civil fusion and protecting the interest of our shareholders remains our top priority.

國防部含糊地聲稱禾賽在某種程度上支持中國軍民融合併保護我們股東的利益，這仍然是我們的首要任務。

We've been very transparent and consistent in sharing these facts.

我們在分享這些事實時一直非常透明和一致。

But the moment when the DOD us, it challenged our integrity, it also caused confusion for our customers and investors and they were concerned that we might be hiding something.

但當國防部發現我們的時候，它挑戰了我們的誠信，也給我們的客戶和投資者帶來了困惑，他們擔心我們可能隱瞞了什麼。

We will continuously seek open dialogue with the DOD so that we could correct those errors.

我們將不斷尋求與國防部的公開對話，以便糾正這些錯誤。

Well, we look forward to providing that the government's new analysis is unlawful in court in the coming months and these are the current status of the 1268 situation, Cindy.

好吧，我們期待在未來幾個月內在法庭上證明政府的新分析是非法的，這就是 1268 情況的現狀，Cindy。

Do you believe this is helpful?

您相信這有幫助嗎？

Yeah, that's very helpful.

是的，這非常有幫助。

Thanks for the colors.

謝謝你的顏色。

And I think in the pre remarks.

我認為在前言中。

Yeah, you also mentioned Hesai will achieve GAAP in net profit in 4Q.

是的，您也提到禾賽第四季淨利將實現GAAP。

Should we expect 2025 to be the first full-year GAAP profitable as well?

我們是否應該預期 2025 年將是第一個以 GAAP 準則實現盈利的全年？

Thank you, Cindy.

謝謝你，辛蒂。

This is Andrew and let me take this question.

我是安德魯，讓我回答這個問題。

Before I address this question.

在我回答這個問題之前。

Let me express my gratitude for your continuous support to Hesai and I look forward to all of you in the future together with Hesai IRT.

感謝大家一直以來對禾賽的支持，期待你們與禾賽IRT的未來共同發展。

For this question, we are happy to share that we are on a steady path towards profitability in the fourth quarter of this year.

對於這個問題，我們很高興地告訴大家，今年第四季我們正在穩步實現盈利。

A major milestone for us Q4 is set to be our peak season every year which projected revenues approaching $100 million and the deliveries reaching 200,000 units and unprecedented achievements since our inception.

第四季是我們的一個重要里程碑，每年的旺季預計營收將接近 1 億美元，交付量達到 20 萬台，取得自成立以來前所未有的成就。

Besides our cost management remain robust, ensuring financial strengths as we scale up mass production to our knowledge, no other player in the global light industry matches our financial resilience while operating at such an impressive delivery schedule.

除了我們保持穩健的成本管理，確保我們在擴大大規模生產時的財務實力之外，全球輕工業中沒有其他企業能夠與我們的財務彈性相媲美，同時還能以如此令人印象深刻的交貨時間表運營。

As highlighted in our financial statements, our Q3 gross profit nearly doubled year over year while operating expenses grew by only 10% year on year.

正如我們的財務報表所強調的，我們第三季的毛利比去年同期幾乎翻了一番，而營運費用比去年同期僅成長了 10%。

Showcasing our exceptional operating leverage.

展現我們卓越的營運槓桿。

We also anticipate the blended growth margin for Q4 to exceed 40% with operating expenses remaining stable quarter over quarter.

我們也預期第四季的綜合成長率將超過 40%，營運費用將較上季維持穩定。

Additionally, our average quarterly other income and interest income typically around RMB30 million positions us well to reach break-even in Q4, taking it to the next level, we have received additional payments from a leading customer preparing us to an estimated USD20 million net profit in Q4.

此外，我們的平均季度其他收入和利息收入通常約為3000 萬元人民幣，這使我們能夠在第四季度實現盈虧平衡，從而將其提升到一個新的水平，我們已從一家領先客戶那裡收到了額外付款，為我們準備了估計2000 萬美元的淨利潤在第四季度。

This is an incredible achievement and a testament to the solid financial foundation we are building as we continue to drive growth and scale our success.

這是一項令人難以置信的成就，也證明了我們在繼續推動成長和擴大成功的過程中正在建立的堅實財務基礎。

Hopefully, that covers your question.

希望這能涵蓋您的問題。

And for 2025 I think was relevant to your question.

我認為 2025 年與你的問題有關。

Sandy.

沙。

So our top line growth will be very solid because more and more customers somatically and internationally adopting the ladder.

因此，我們的收入成長將非常穩健，因為越來越多的客戶在身體和國際上採用階梯。

We see the penetration rate has been, ramping fast -- ramping up very fast.

我們看到滲透率一直在快速成長——成長得非常快。

And on the other side cost -- cost is well controlled expense will be well controlled.

另一方面，成本－成本得到很好的控制，費用也會得到很好的控制。

So for four-year 2025 we'll be targeting for profitability as well.

因此，在 2025 年的四年裡，我們的目標也將是獲利。

Thank you.

謝謝。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

Tina Hou, Goldman Sachs.

蒂娜·侯，高盛。

Thanks, management for taking my question.

謝謝管理層回答我的問題。

So the first question is regarding our 2025 volume revenue as well as margin guidance since we're onboarding more OEMs and then, but at the same time, there might be more mix of the ATX product.

因此，第一個問題是關於我們 2025 年的銷售收入以及利潤指導，因為我們正在引入更多的 OEM，但與此同時，可能會有更多的 ATX 產品組合。

So just wondering what we should think about in terms of 2025 overall and also for third-quarter '24 wondering excluding the NRE project impact, what is our more like normalized light or growth margin?

因此，我只是想知道，就 2025 年整體情況以及 24 年第三季而言，我們應該考慮什麼，不考慮 NRE 專案的影響，我們更像是標準化的光還是成長利潤率？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

Let me take this question.

讓我來回答這個問題。

Looking forward in year 2025.

展望 2025 年。

We believe that we have already secured a significant design wins for new car models which are achieving SOP in year 2025 and beyond.

我們相信，我們已經為新車車型贏得了重大設計勝利，這些車型將在 2025 年及以後實現 SOP。

Some of our major customers, best-selling modules, including those from the world's largest EV manufacturer are expected to begin production with our lidar solutions very soon.

我們的一些主要客戶、最暢銷的模組，包括來自世界上最大的電動車製造商的模組，預計很快就會開始使用我們的光達解決方案進行生產。

Additionally, some of our clients are adopting lidar as a standard configuration starting next year.

此外，從明年開始，我們的一些客戶將採用光達作為標準配置。

This positions us to ship millions of units throughout 2025 and 2026.

這使我們能夠在 2025 年和 2026 年出貨數百萬台。

Based on our customers' forecast.

基於我們客戶的預測。

As of now, we have two manufacturing facilities in operation one in Shanghai and one in Hangzhou and are expanding with new production lines to meet our clients' needs for the coming year.

截至目前，我們有兩家正在營運的製造工廠，一家位於上海，一家位於杭州，並且正在擴大新的生產線，以滿足客戶來年的需求。

Revenue wise, by our year-end earnings next March, we'll have a clear view about that.

就收入而言，到明年三月我們的年終收益時，我們就會對此有一個清晰的認識。

As of now for year 2025, we will have three different modules of AT in production.

截至 2025 年，我們將生產三種不同的 AT 模組。

The first one is the current ATP, which will experience a moderate annual decline in ASP in teams.

第一個是目前的ATP，球隊的ASP每年都會適度下降。

The second module is the ultra-high performance AT designed to meet L3 standards which will enjoy a much higher price tag.

第二個模組是專為滿足L3標準而設計的超高性能AT，其價格將更高。

Lastly, the cost effective compact ATX will begin production in year 2025 with some flagship series cars modules adopting it as a standard configuration.

最後，具有成本效益的緊湊型ATX將於2025年開始生產，一些旗艦系列汽車模組將採用它作為標準配置。

I expect that the revenue contribution from ATX will start to increase relatively quickly in year 2025.

我預計ATX的營收貢獻將在2025年開始相對快速成長。

Second question about Q3 margins.

關於第三季利潤率的第二個問題。

If we exclude that NRE revenue, I would expect that this will be largely the same as our normalized quotas, which is about 40%-plus gross margins.

如果我們排除 NRE 收入，我預計這將與我們的標準化配額大致相同，毛利率約為 40% 以上。

That's very clear.

這非常清楚。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Zhang Hui, Huatai Securities.

張輝，華泰證券。

Hi, David, Andrew.

嗨，大衛，安德魯。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您提出我的問題。

My first question is about robotics.

我的第一個問題是關於機器人技術的。

I want to know currently what's the main lidar production for the customer in robotics and in the long term, what are the diff are the technology difference between the robotics and the ADAS error and the difference in ASP.

我想知道目前機器人領域客戶的主要光達生產是什麼，從長遠來看，機器人和 ADAS 誤差之間的技術差異以及 ASP 的差異是什麼。

(spoken in foreign language)

（用外語說）

Let me address this question in English first.

讓我先用英文回答這個問題。

For the industrial robotics applications [AEG] in logistics and hub operations.

適用於物流和樞紐運作中的工業機器人應用 [AEG]。

They are rapidly growing and we have successfully secured some new orders from both domestic and international clients.

他們正在快速成長，我們已經成功地從國內和國際客戶那裡獲得了一些新訂單。

Regarding the product series that we are selling to these segment market.

關於我們向這些細分市場銷售的產品系列。

I think Panda OT, XT, these are all have their own clients.

我覺得熊貓OT、XT這些都是有自己的客戶的。

Whether through autonomous vehicles or robotic platforms, our goal is always to deliver superior services and experiences to our users in alignment with our mission to empower robotics and elevate lives.

無論是透過自動駕駛汽車還是機器人平台，我們的目標始終是為使用者提供卓越的服務和體驗，以實現我們賦予機器人技術和提升生活的使命。

Regarding the ASPs I think we have to monitor the development of the revenue contributions from different clients from different segments.

關於平均售價，我認為我們必須監控來自不同細分市場的不同客戶的收入貢獻的發展。

We'll have to give you a clearer forecast where we see more visibilities from the revenue contributions.

我們必須為您提供更清晰的預測，我們可以從收入貢獻中看到更多的可見度。

Hi, this is David Li and I wanted to give a few more remarks regarding the robotics industry.

大家好，我是 David Li，我想就機器人產業發表更多評論。

First, let's define robotics.

首先，我們來定義機器人。

I think it's pretty much everything we cover.

我認為這幾乎是我們涵蓋的所有內容。

That's not ADAS and not strictly robotaxi.

這不是 ADAS，也不是嚴格意義上的機器人計程車。

Okay.

好的。

So a few direct comparisons first the robotics lidar, the ASP is much higher than ADAS because of the volume, right?

首先進行一些直接比較，機器人雷射雷達，由於體積的原因，ASP 比 ADAS 高得多，對嗎？

When we talk about ADAS, we're talking about close to a million units a year volume and even bigger very soon for robotics, it's still in the tens of thousands at the most optimistic side.

當我們談論 ADAS 時，我們談論的是每年接近 100 萬台的銷量，對於機器人來說很快就會更大，最樂觀的情況下仍然是數萬台。

And secondly, it's about application on the technical side.

其次是技術方面的應用。

And for ADAS as we clearly see, it needs extremely miniaturized packaging as well as a forward-looking like a box looking forward right through most of the robotics applications that is not the highest priority.

而對於 ADAS 來說，我們清楚地看到，它需要極其小型化的封裝，以及像盒子一樣向前看的前瞻性，而在大多數機器人應用中，這並不是最優先考慮的。

The priority is to cover wider FOV hopefully with better resolution, it does not need to see longer range.

優先考慮的是覆蓋更寬的FOV，希望有更好的分辨率，不需要看到更遠的距離。

So as a result for longer range, we have a OT and for shorter range, we have XT and QT.

因此，對於較長距離，我們有 OT，對於較短距離，我們有 XT 和 QT。

And it's a different type of product having said that they share a great level of similarity in terms of size, fundamental capabilities of semiconductors on manufacturing capability and on the very strong capability of our quality system, especially on the integrated design of the

這是一種不同類型的產品，據說它們在尺寸、半導體的基本能力、製造能力和我們的品質系統的強大能力方面有很大的相似性，特別是在整合設計方面。

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

And you might think that the ADAS lidar and the robotics lidar are very a great deal in terms of functions and the performance, et cetera, the truth is that if you boil down to the different parts of robotics, robotics lidar, it's really in the end, the laser, the receiver, the driver and the signal processing unit, the computational units, the backboard and power et cetera.

你可能會認為 ADAS 光達和機器人光達在功能和性能等方面非常出色，事實是，如果你歸結為機器人技術的不同部分，機器人光達，它實際上是在最後，雷射、接收器、驅動器和訊號處理單元、計算單元、背板和電源等等。

If you break down them into each of them, a lot of them, we already have a proprietary chip that can support both ADAS and robotics.

如果你將它們分解為每一個，很多，我們已經擁有可以支援 ADAS 和機器人技術的專有晶片。

So in other words, the great strength and the capability we develop from ADAS, especially China, ADAS, we leverage them to go after extreme cost and quality and the performance and use those technologies on robotics.

換句話說，我們從 ADAS，特別是中國的 ADAS 發展而來的強大實力和能力，我們利用它們來追求極端的成本、品質和性能，並將這些技術用於機器人技術。

It's like

就像

(inaudible) .

（聽不清楚）。

That's why we are extremely competitive and remain high profitable, especially on extremely high growth margin on robotic lidars compared to ADAS for that reason.

這就是為什麼我們極具競爭力並保持高利潤，特別是與 ADAS 相比，機器人雷射雷達的成長率極高。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank -- thanks very much.

謝謝——非常感謝。

It's very clear.

非常清楚。

And my second question is about the ADAS (inaudible) Just now you mentioned that the ATX will grow rapidly next year.

我的第二個問題是關於ADAS的（聽不清楚）剛才您提到ATX明年將會快速成長。

And I want to know what's the estimate statement -- shipment proportion of the new production and the AT1 to 8 in next year.

我想知道明年新產品和AT1到8的出貨比例是多少。

And also in the long term which

而且從長遠來看

(spoken in foreign language)

（用外語說）

Okay.

好的。

Let me take this question.

讓我來回答這個問題。

Again, If we look at the year 2025, I believe that the total shipment in year 2025 were exceed millions of units in that year.

再說一遍，如果我們看看2025年，我相信2025年的總出貨量將超過數百萬台。

However, regarding the detailed breakdown between ATX and AT128 we have to share -- we can only share more details as we go along probably till say March next year.

然而，關於 ATX 和 AT128 之間的詳細細分，我們必須分享——我們只能在明年 3 月之前分享更多細節。

But no matter how the mix turns, we are still confident with our long term blended growth margins which will stay healthy.

但無論這種組合如何變化，我們仍然對我們的長期混合成長利潤保持健康充滿信心。

Thanks to the effective cost management and our flywheel approach of cost and scale optimization.

由於有效的成本管理以及我​​們的成本和規模優化飛輪方法。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

Olivia Zhang, HTI.

張奧利維亞，HTI。

Hi, thanks for taking my question.

您好，感謝您提出我的問題。

This is Olivia from Haitong.

我是來自海通的奧莉維亞。

My question is, Huawei has become an important role in intelligent driving market.

我的問題是，華為已經成為智慧駕駛市場的重要角色。

I want to know -- I know we have established cooperation with some OEM brands in the Huawei ecosystem.

我想知道——我知道我們已經與華為生態系統中的一些OEM品牌建立了合作。

So how do we see the cooperation going forward?

那我們該如何看待未來的合作呢？

(spoken in foreign language)

（用外語說）

Thank you, Olivia.

謝謝你，奧莉維亞。

This is David Li.

這是李大衛。

Yeah, sure.

是的，當然。

Let me try to clarify our view on the collaboration slash competition with Huawei.

讓我試著澄清我們對與華為的合作削減競爭的看法。

Right?

正確的？

First, the Huawei is a very competitive player, right?

首先，華為是一家非常有競爭力的公司，對吧？

And as of now, I use a Huawei tripod phone and a Huawei watch which are very good products.

目前我使用的華為三腳架手機和華為手錶都是非常好的產品。

So they build very good products.

所以他們製造了非常好的產品。

And having said that I feel like our competition against Huawei is a clear situation in the sense that as far as what we see today and the people who use Huawei lidars are within the Huawei ecosystem, namely the (spoken in foreign language) of the world.

話雖如此，我覺得我們與華為的競爭是一個明顯的情況，就我們今天所看到的以及使用華為激光雷達的人來說，都在華為的生態系統內，即世界的（用外語來說） 。

And they not only use Huawei's components, they use Huawei's solution at a system level.

而且他們不僅使用華為的組件，在系統層面也使用華為的解決方案。

So they essentially use everything from Huawei.

所以他們基本上是使用華為的一切。

And we believe for that reason, it's unlikely that we will become an individual component supplier within the Huawei ecosystem today because we only sell components, right?

我們認為，出於這個原因，我們今天不太可能成為華為生態系統中的單一組件供應商，因為我們只銷售組件，對嗎？

We don't sell solutions.

我們不出售解決方案。

And so that's why today the market has been sort of divided between the Huawei's brand and their own supply chain and the rest of the world.

這就是為什麼今天市場在華為的品牌及其自己的供應鏈和世界其他地區之間劃分的原因。

And so far, it seems to be very clear for both sides.

而到目前為止，雙方的情況似乎都非常清楚。

Our goal of course, is to hopefully maximize our market share in our own world.

當然，我們的目標是希望最大限度地提高我們在自己世界中的市場份額。

So that has been our strategy.

這就是我們的策略。

Of course, having said that there are overlaps, there are brands who have their Huawei cars and have their own branded cars and we have a few of OEM customers are like that.

當然，話雖如此，還是有重疊的，有的品牌有華為汽車，有自己的品牌汽車，我們有一些OEM客戶就是這樣。

But in my mind, and it works the same way the car models, they work with Huawei system.

但在我看來，它的工作方式與汽車模型相同，它們使用華為系統。

It's very likely it will have only Huawei lidar.

它很可能只有華為光達。

No, no one else lidar that has been their strategy.

不，沒有其他光達是他們的戰略。

The cars that OEMs built with their own effort will have very little or zero Huawei components.

整車廠自己生產的汽車將很少或為零華為零零件。

That's the market we're going after.

這就是我們要追求的市場。

And we have been fairly successful in working with those customers when they don't use Huawei Solutions.

當這些客戶不使用華為解決方案時，我們與他們的合作相當成功。

And our belief is that in the end, Huawei would continue to have a significant share as a OEM.

我們相信，最終華為將繼續作為 OEM 佔據重要份額。

And but the rest of the world is still much bigger and we'll also continue to work with our global customers who are now working with Huawei today.

但世界其他地區仍然要大得多，我們也將繼續與目前正在與華為合作的全球客戶合作。

Thank you, David.

謝謝你，大衛。

That's super clear.

說的超清楚啊

That's all my questions.

這就是我的所有問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Cindy Huang.

黃辛迪.

Hi and thank you for taking my question.

您好，感謝您提出我的問題。

I have a follow up question on OT128, who will be the first batch of customers adopting this new product.

我有一個關於OT128的後續問題，誰將是第一批採用該新產品的客戶。

And also can we also get some data regarding our partnership with Cruise?

我們還可以獲得一些有關我們與 Cruise 合作夥伴關係的數據嗎？

Okay.

好的。

Let me take this question regarding OT, yes, this new flagship mechanical lidar is built for scalable applications like robotaxi, industrial, robotics, smart factories and the logistics.

讓我回答這個關於 OT 的問題，是的，這款新的旗艦機械雷射雷達是為機器人出租車、工業、機器人、智慧工廠和物流等可擴展應用而建造的。

It has already got deals locked in with over 90 clients worldwide.

它已經與全球 90 多個客戶鎖定了交易。

Financials, around 90% -- 95% of its key components come from our bestselling ADAS lidar which keeps the cost down.

財務方面，大約 90% - 95% 的關鍵組件來自我們最暢銷的 ADAS 雷射雷達，從而降低了成本。

Also thanks to vertical integration like our ADAS products, we can scale production and take advantage of economies of scale.

此外，由於我們的 ADAS 產品等垂直整合，我們可以擴大生產規模並利用規模經濟。

For custom for clients, this means it can be priced more competitively, especially for large volume orders.

對於客戶客製化來說，這意味著它的定價更具競爭力，特別是對於大批量訂單。

Its gross margin is comparable to our typical L4 products or even slightly higher with large orders, the gross margin can improve even further.

它的毛利率與我們典型的L4產品相當，甚至略高，如果訂單量大，毛利率還可以進一步提高。

We have already started production and the deliveries and it has already brought in over USD10 million in revenues so far.

我們已經開始生產和交付，迄今為止已經帶來了超過 1000 萬美元的收入。

The AM sector is more about performance, less on price and it's full of exciting growth opportunities with new use cases popping up.

積層製造業更注重效能，而不是價格，隨著新用例的不斷湧現，它充滿了令人興奮的成長機會。

We are thrilled about what's ahead.

我們對未來感到興奮。

Your other question regarding GM Cruise updates based on public information, Cruise has made significant progress this year.

你提到的另一個關於通用汽車郵輪更新的問題，根據公開消息，郵輪今年取得了重大進展。

Its group has invested additional funds into Cruise to support its own going operations and strategic initiatives.

其集團已向 Cruise 投資了額外資金，以支持其自身的營運和策略舉措。

Following a temporary halt in operations since late 2023, the NHTSA closed its investigation into Cruise vehicles in August of 2024.

自 2023 年底以來暫時停止營運後，NHTSA 於 2024 年 8 月結束了對 Cruise 車輛的調查。

Recently Cruise has resumed supervised autonomous driving tests in cities like Phoenix, Dallas and Houston.

最近，Cruise 已在鳳凰城、達拉斯和休士頓等城市恢復了有監督的自動駕駛測試。

Cruise is clearly making efforts to overcome challenges and solidify its position as a leader in autonomous vehicle technology.

Cruise 顯然正在努力克服挑戰並鞏固其作為自動駕駛汽車技術領導者的地位。

As you see, we recorded the NRE revenues in Q3 from our L4 lidar which is being prepared for potential large scale deployment by a leading global robotaxi player in the coming year.

如您所見，我們在第三季度記錄了 L4 雷射雷達的 NRE 收入，該收入正在為全球領先的機器人計程車公司在來年的潛在大規模部署做好準備。

International robotaxi players are expanding (inaudible) and Nuro were also recently reported to be actively scaling their testing operations, making strides towards the commercial deployment of their autonomous vehicle technologies.

國際機器人計程車廠商正在擴張（聽不清楚），據報道，Nuro 最近也正在積極擴大其測試業務，朝著自動駕駛汽車技術的商業部署邁進。

We remain optimistic about the business opportunities in L4 autonomy and beyond as the industry continues to evolve and grow.

隨著產業的不斷發展和發展，我們對 L4 級自動駕駛及其他領域的商機保持樂觀。

That's my answers to this question.

這就是我對這個問題的回答。

Yeah, that's very clear.

是的，這很清楚。

Thank you.

謝謝。

[Jeff Trial], Citi.

[傑夫審判]，花旗。

Hi, this is Jeff from Citi, excellent result and the guidance and thank you sir for the good work.

大家好，我是來自花旗銀行的傑夫，出色的成績和指導，感謝先生的出色工作。

And my question is number one.

我的問題是第一名。

We recognize the OpEx for each quarter for the third quarter is around [RMB350 million] And in order to approach a 20% margin level into the fourth quarter, the OpEx into the fourth quarter will be around

我們承認第三季每季的營運支出約為[人民幣3.5億元]，為了接近第四季20%的利潤率水平，第四季的營運支出將約為[3.5億元人民幣]。

[RMB250 million]

【2.5億元人民幣】

So could you let us know what should be the normalized OpEx going forward into two to five.

那麼您能否讓我們知道標準化營運支出應該是多少，未來將變成 2 到 5。

Number one, number two is about a low season impact into first quarter, two to five.

第一，第二是關於第一季的淡季影響，二到五。

As we all know that there should be a potential prebuying happening in the fourth quarter this year, result in a sloppy demand growing into the first quarter potentially.

眾所周知，今年第四季應該會出現潛在的預購，導致第一季的需求可能成長緩慢。

So, could you give us the margin guidance in the first quarter and also the normalized GP margin guidance throughout the two to five?

那麼，您能否向我們提供第一季的利潤指引以及整個第二季至第五季的正常化毛利率指引？

Those are my first two questions.

這是我的前兩個問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Your first question regarding OpEx.

您的第一個問題是關於營運支出的。

Yes, on a full-year basis. 2023 our OpEx on a non-GAAP basis is about RMB1 billion, out of which 65% is R&D, 15% is sales and marketing and the rest goes to G&A.

是的，以全年為基礎。 2023年，我們以非公認會計準則計算的營運支出約為10億元人民幣，其中65%用於研發，15%用於銷售和行銷，其餘用於G&A。

On a full year basis, we believe that 2024 the OpEx will grow by less than 5% on GAAP basis and 10% to 15% growth on non-GAAP basis.

就全年而言，我們認為 2024 年營運支出按 GAAP 基準成長將低於 5%，以非 GAAP 基準成長 10% 至 15%。

For year 2025, that we have committed to take more active expense management to ensure a better efficiency and financial discipline.

到 2025 年，我們致力於採取更積極的費用管理，以確保更好的效率和財務紀律。

That actually is my response to your question for OpEx.

這實際上是我對您關於營運支出問題的回答。

Regarding the guidance on Q1 typically due to the seasonality reasons, Q1 tends to be weaker than Q4 on a quarter-over-quarter basis.

關於第一季的指引，通常是因為季節性原因，第一季環比往往弱於第四季。

But in order to give you a clearer guidance for Q1, probably we have to wait till end of this year.

但為了給大家一個更清晰的第一季指導，也許我們必須等到今年年底。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

I have no more questions.

我沒有更多問題了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

[Cherry Lou], JP Morgan.

[Cherry Lou]，摩根大通。

Yeah, thanks for taking my questions.

是的，謝謝你回答我的問題。

I can actually just have one question about the ATX.

我實際上有一個關於 ATX 的問題。

I'm wondering among your 75 design win.

我想知道您贏得的 75 項設計獎中有哪些。

How many of them are kind of pending SOP and how many of that will be for ATX and also for the secured design wins?

其中有多少是待定的 SOP，其中有多少將用於 ATX 以及已獲得的設計勝利？

I'm wondering, do you see any clients willing to kind of switch from the AT128 to ATX for better cost structure?

我想知道，您是否看到任何客戶願意從 AT128 切換到 ATX 以獲得更好的成本結構？

And how do you think of that potential trend?

您如何看待這種潛在趨勢？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

So maybe I'll first give you a more fair comparison of the product ATX versus AT, right?

所以也許我會先給您一個 ATX 與 AT 產品的更公平的比較，對嗎？

So the AT started its journey of SOP in July of 2022, right.

所以 AT 在 2022 年 7 月就開始了 SOP 之旅，對吧。

So which means that ATX is two to three years behind AT and it has an equally competitive performance and some parts are optimized sometimes are slightly worse than AT.

所以這意味著ATX比AT落後兩到三年，但它具有同樣有競爭力的性能，並且某些部分進行了優化，有時比AT略差。

But overall it's a highly competitive product and, but it's a much more affordable one and it's in the $200 range.

但總的來說，它是一款極​​具競爭力的產品，而且價格更實惠，價格在 200 美元左右。

So which means that for people who are looking to do similar level, which is the level two plus driving with AT, it's a natural and rational choice, by the way, it's also smaller, right?

所以這意味著對於那些想要做類似級別的人來說，也就是二級加AT駕駛，這是一個自然而合理的選擇，順便說一句，它也更小，對吧？

So it's a natural and rational decision to switch from AT to ATX as long as they can accommodate the change design.

所以從AT切換到ATX是一個自然而合理的決定，只要它們能夠適應變化的設計。

And it's really because the ATX is our fourth generation semiconductor, it has a lot of new innovations in making sure that we process a large amount of point cloud with very, very low power and low cost.

這確實是因為 ATX 是我們的第四代半導體，它有許多新的創新，可以確保我們以非常非常低的功耗和低成本處理大量的點雲。

And on top of it has additional features like the IPE the intelligent point cloud engine to analyze different weather conditions, et cetera, that has a lot of great features.

除此之外，還有其他功能，例如 IPE 智慧點雲引擎，用於分析不同的天氣條件等，它具有許多出色的功能。

So, that's why the takeaway is that for anybody who is looking at the similar level of performance of AT, it's kind of a no brainer to switch over as long as you can accommodate the engineering changes and you can enjoy the saving.

因此，這就是為什麼對於任何關注 AT 類似性能水平的人來說，只要您能夠適應工程變更並且可以享受節省的費用，那麼切換是理所當然的。

However, if you look at the direction the industry is moving towards, especially the fact that for the past year, we see great trend of adoption of lidar.

然而，如果你看看行業的發展方向，特別是在過去的一年裡，我們看到了雷射雷達採用的巨大趨勢。

To me, not only a signal of the increased demand of lidar and intelligent driving, it's also a statement on the value of such a system creates.

對我來說，這不僅是雷射雷達和智慧駕駛需求成長的訊號，也是對此類系統所創造價值的陳述。

So naturally, when it creates more value, people want more and a better version of it, which what we call is level three, right?

所以很自然地，當它創造更多價值時，人們想要更多、更好的版本，我們稱之為第三級，對嗎？

So if you look at the global level three market.

因此，如果你看看全球三級市場。

As we already announced, we have a global design wing as one of the most famous automotive brand in the world.

正如我們已經宣布的那樣，作為世界上最著名的汽車品牌之一，我們擁有一個全球設計部門。

And that level three system that is a much higher price, much more powerful in terms of everything, in terms of distance and resolution capability.

而三級系統的價格要高得多，在所有方面、距離和分辨率能力方面都更強大。

And so that will be a much higher ASP product and that is in the 8512 family.

因此，8512 系列將是一款 ASP 更高的產品。

So that's why it is true that a lot of the customers will be using ATX while they already use AT, there will, they will also have a premium trend line with strictly level three functions with a much more powerful lidar to handle the different conditions with close to 10 times of the resolution and roughly 50% of the distance increase.

因此，這就是為什麼許多客戶在已經使用 AT 的同時仍將使用 ATX，他們還將擁有具有嚴格三級功能的高級趨勢線，以及更強大的光達來處理不同的條件分辨率提高了近10 倍，距離增加了大約50%。

So that's the situation we're facing and are there more to it?

這就是我們面臨的情況，還有更多的情況嗎？

Hopefully, this answers your question.

希望這能回答您的問題。

Yeah, that's very helpful.

是的，這非常有幫助。

May I just follow up that could you share the color in terms of the price GAAP between your ATX and also this advanced AT product?

我可以跟進一下，您能分享一下您的 ATX 和這款先進 AT 產品之間的 GAAP 價格嗎？

Thank you.

謝謝。

So, without disclosing the actual numbers, because there's always case by case depending on the volume and SOP time and ATX is a $200 -- $200 range depending on the configuration, higher or lower the AT512 family, which will remain at the AT range which is more than double of that.

因此，在不透露實際數字的情況下，因為總是根據具體情況而定，具體取決於數量和SOP 時間，而ATX 的範圍是200 - 200 美元，具體取決於配置，更高或更低的AT512系列，它將保持在AT 範圍，是這個數字的兩倍多。

It's a much, much more expensive lidar.

這是一個昂貴得多的光達。

But again, it handles level three functions.

但同樣，它處理第三級功能。

So the value proposition is a completely different equation.

因此，價值主張是一個完全不同的等式。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

(multiple speakers)

（多個發言者）

And we are hoping to ship the ultra-high performance lidar, which is in the family of 8512 starting from like 2025 or 2026.

我們希望從 2025 年或 2026 年開始推出 8512 系列的超高性能雷射雷達。

And shipping overseas will enjoy a better margin as well.

海外運輸也將享受更好的利潤。

Okay.

好的。

Understood.

明白了。

Thank you

謝謝

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

Thank you.

謝謝。

As there are no further questions, I'd like now to turn the conference back over to the company for closing remarks.

由於沒有其他問題，我現在想將會議轉回公司進行閉幕致詞。

Thank you once again for joining us today.

再次感謝您今天加入我們。

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our IR team.

如果您還有任何疑問，請隨時聯絡我們的 IR 團隊。

This concludes today's call and we look forward to speaking to you again next quarter.

今天的電話會議到此結束，我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。

Thank you and goodbye.

謝謝你，再見。

This concludes today's conference call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

You may now disconnect your line.

現在您可以斷開線路。

Thank you.

謝謝。