Hesai Group (HSAI) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by for Hesai Group's First Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference call. At this time all participants are in a listen-only mode. Please note that today's conference call is being recorded.

各位女士、先生，感謝您參加和賽集團2023年第一季業績電話會議。目前所有與會者均處於僅收聽模式。請注意，本次電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to our first speaker today, [Yan-Ting Hsi], the Company's investor relations director.

現在，我謹將電話轉交給今天的第一位發言人，公司投資人關係總監希彥廷先生。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you operator. Hello everyone and thank you for joining Hesai Group's first quarter 2023 earnings conference call. Our earnings release is now available on our IR website at investor.hesaitech.com, as well as our news wire services. Today you will hear from our CEO, Dr. David Li, who will start the call with an overview of our recent updates.

謝謝接線生。大家好，感謝各位參加和賽集團2023年第一季財報電話會議。我們的財報現已發佈在投資者關係網站investor.hesaitech.com以及我們的新聞通訊社。今天，我們的執行長李大衛博士將首先概述我們近期的最新進展。

Next, our global CFO, Mr. Louis Hsieh will address our financial results before we open the call for questions.

接下來，我們的全球財務長謝路易先生將介紹我們的財務業績，之後我們將開放提問環節。

Before we continue, I refer you to our Safe Harbor Statement in our earnings press release, which applies to this call, as we will make forward-looking statements. Please also note that the company will discuss non-GAAP measures today, which are more thoroughly explained and reconciled to the most comparable measures reported on the GAAP in our earnings release and SEC filings.

在繼續之前，請各位參閱我們盈利新聞稿中的“安全港聲明”，該聲明適用於本次電話會議，因為我們將做出一些前瞻性陳述。另請注意，該公司今天還將討論非GAAP財務指標，這些指標在我們的獲利新聞稿和提交給美國證券交易委員會（SEC）的文件中已有更詳細的解釋，並與GAAP下報告的最可比指標進行了核對。

With that, I'm pleased to turn over the call to our CEO, Dr. David Li. David, please go ahead.

接下來，我很高興將電話交給我們的執行長李大衛博士。李大衛，請開始。

Thank you, Yan-Ting. And thank you everyone for joining our call today. Let's start with the big picture. We're pleased to deliver the strongest quarterly financial performance in our history. In the first quarter, our net revenue was up 73% year-over-year to a new record high and our industry-leading growth margins increased quarter-over-quarter to 38%, up from 30% last quarter. Expense wise, excluding share-based compensation, R&D remains steady and our product lines and organizational structure are approaching maturity. As a result, and most excitingly, we achieved non-GAAP profitability and a positive operating cash flow in the first quarter, demonstrating our tremendous future profitability prospects.

謝謝顏婷。也感謝各位今天參加我們的電話會議。首先，讓我們從宏觀角度來看。我們很高興地宣布，公司第一季財務業績創歷史新高。第一季度，我們的淨收入年增73%，創歷史新高；產業領先的成長利潤率較上季成長至38%，高於上一季的30%。在費用方面，不計股權激勵支出，研發投入維持穩定，產品線和組織架構也日益成熟。因此，最令人振奮的是，我們在第一季實現了非GAAP獲利和正的經營現金流，這充分展現了我們未來巨大的獲利潛力。

No validation is more encouraging than the recognition from our customers. Having delivered more than 135,000 LiDAR units to date, Hesai has become the most commercially successful LiDAR manufacturer in terms of shipments in both robotaxi and the ADAS market. We stand out from others for two reasons. First, our proven automotive-grade product quality viewed upon our methodology of having in-house manufacturing as a crucial part of the R&D to enable rapid iteration of our product.

沒有什麼比客戶的認同更令人鼓舞。迄今為止，Hesai 已交付超過 135,000 台雷射雷達，在自動駕駛計程車和高級駕駛輔助系統 (ADAS) 市場，其出貨量均位居雷射雷達製造商之首。我們之所以脫穎而出，主要有兩點原因。首先，我們擁有久經考驗的車規級產品質量，這得益於我們自主研發的模式，即把自主生產作為研發的關鍵環節，從而實現產品的快速迭代。

And second, in addition to taking advantage of economies of scale, we have committed to continued innovation on our proprietary ASIC platform, allowing more affordable solutions via highly integrated components. Since 2017, we've gone through four generations of our preparatory ASIC development with contributions from more than 150 dedicated semiconductor staff.

其次，除了利用規模經濟優勢外，我們也致力於持續創新自主研發的ASIC平台，透過高度整合的組件提供更經濟實惠的解決方案。自2017年以來，在150多位半導體產業專業人士的共同努力下，我們已完成了四代ASIC晶片的研發。

We're proud to be uniquely positioned to offer LiDAR solutions with the best combinations of high performance, high quality, and affordability. Now I'd like to share some exciting first quarter business updates.

我們很自豪能夠憑藉獨特的優勢，提供兼具高性能、高品質和高性價比的雷射雷達解決方案。現在，我想和大家分享一些令人振奮的第一季業務進展。

First, we're thrilled to have the privilege of collaborating with 11 pioneering OEMs in the industry on multi-year ADAS contracts, including Li Auto, a leading Chinese EV maker, as well as another top selling EV maker in China. We're also working with a leading consumer electronics maker in China on their planned EV debut, and two of the largest automakers in China, including Changan and many other leading auto OEMs.

首先，我們非常榮幸能與業界11家領先的汽車製造商（OEM）簽署多年ADAS合作協議，其中包括中國領先的電動車製造商理想汽車，以及另一家中國暢銷電動車製造商。此外，我們也正在與一家中國領先的消費性電子製造商合作，協助其電動車首秀；同時，我們也在與中國兩家最大的汽車製造商——長安汽車以及許多其他領先的汽車OEM廠商合作。

In the first quarter, we continue to gain momentum in setting more contracts in the domestic market. We were selected by Li Auto for its new fully battery electric vehicle platform and by Jidu, a joint venture between Baidu and Geely Group for its new EV model.

第一季度，我們在國內市場持續保持強勁的簽約動能。我們被理想汽車選中，為其全新的純電動車平台提供技術支援；此外，百度與吉利集團合資企業極度汽車也選擇我們為其新款電動車提供技術支援。

We also initiated a partnership with a new customer, SERES, a leading EV maker in China, whose new car models will be shipped with your AT128 LiDAR.

我們還與中國領先的電動車製造商 SERES 建立了新的合作關係，其新車型將配備您的 AT128 雷射雷達。

As the China EV market is growing exponentially, we'll be shifting to 6 OEMs by end of 2023 and 11 by end of 2024. But that has a global vision since its inception. With our proven ability to shift large volumes of high-quality laser sensors, we already advanced in 8 RFI and RFQs with 5 leading global OEMs who are expecting a new round of sourcing decisions to materialize in the next coming 12 months.

隨著中國電動車市場呈指數級增長，我們計劃在2023年底將合作的OEM廠商數量增至6家，到2024年底增至11家。但公司自成立之初就秉持全球視野。憑藉我們成熟的高品質雷射感測器批量供應能力，我們已與5家全球領先的OEM廠商就8份RFI和RFQ進行了深入洽談，這些廠商預計將在未來12個月內做出新一輪採購決策。

In the autonomous mobility market, we continue to lead as the best in class player. We recently signed the largest robotaxi contract in our company's history. According to an independent third party report, we are the primary LiDAR provider for 12 out of the world's top 15 autonomous driving companies with nearly 60% global market share.

在自動駕駛市場，我們始終保持行業領先地位。近期，我們簽署了公司史上金額最大的無人駕駛計程車合約。根據獨立第三方報告顯示，全球排名前15的自動駕駛公司中，有12家選擇我們作為其主要雷射雷達供應商，佔據近60%的全球市場份額。

Next, we are dedicated to in-house manufacturing as we see this as the only way to meet automotive grade standards at this early stage of development in the ADAS market.

其次，我們致力於自主生產，因為我們認為這是在ADAS市場發展的早期階段達到汽車級標準的唯一途徑。

During the first quarter, we completed the first successful production sample from our Hertz Center, a dedicated manufacturing center in Hangzhou, which takes automation to the next level. Featuring over 90% automation, Hertz produces one LiDAR every 45 seconds. With an optimized design, the AT series produced at Hertz would improve our ADAS growth margin as it reaches economy of scale in manufacturing and utilization. Additionally, our Advanced R&D and Intelligent Manufacturing Center in Shanghai Maxwell is a true innovation center for new products to be designed, tested, calibrated under one roof before they are handed over to mass production. Its construction is scheduled to be completed in Q3 of this year.

第一季度，我們位於杭州的赫茲中心成功完成了第一個量產樣品的生產。該中心是我們的專屬製造中心，將自動化等級提升到了新的高度。赫茲中心自動化程度超過90%，每45秒即可生產一台雷射雷達。憑藉優化的設計，赫茲中心生產的AT系列產品將實現規模化生產和應用，進而提升我們的ADAS成長利潤率。此外，我們在上海麥克斯韋的先進研發與智慧製造中心是一個真正的創新中心，新產品的設計、測試和校準都可以在這裡完成，之後即可投入量產。該中心預計將於今年第三季竣工。

Leveraging the development of our latest ASIC Gen 4.0, we are able to continue releasing state-of-the-art products that meet the ever-increasing needs of both performance and design aesthetics while keeping them affordable. ET25, a groundbreaking in-cabin LiDAR featuring an extremely thin profile of only 25 mm in height with extended range and enhanced resolution, was recently released at Shanghai Auto Show. ET25's revolutionary concept is attracting interest from OEMs globally who are demanding extremely miniaturized LiDARs behind windshields to achieve both an aesthetically pleasing exterior vehicle design and optimal aerodynamics. To conquer the great challenges of putting LiDARs behind the windshield, we teamed up with the global automotive glass leader, Fuyao Group, to create a specialized windshield to enhance the laser transmittance efficiency by up to 3X.

憑藉我們最新研發的第四代ASIC晶片，我們得以持續推出尖端產品，滿足日益增長的性能和美學設計需求，同時保持價格優勢。 ET25是一款突破性的車載雷射雷達，其超薄設計僅25毫米高，卻擁有更遠的探測距離和更高的分辨率，近期在上海車展上正式發布。 ET25的革命性概念吸引了全球眾多汽車製造商的關注，他們希望在擋風玻璃後方安裝超小型化的雷射雷達，以實現美觀的外觀設計和最佳的空氣動力學性能。為了克服將光達安裝在擋風玻璃後方的巨大挑戰，我們與全球汽車玻璃領導者福耀集團合作，共同打造了一款專用擋風玻璃，將雷射穿透效率提升至3倍。

Finally, before I hand it over to Louis for a deeper look at the financial numbers, I wanted to congratulate the whole team from operations to product innovation on an exceptional quarter. With non-GAAP profitability and a positive operating cash flow in the first quarter, we showcase our potential for continued growth momentum. We remain confident in our ability to see development opportunities in both ADAS and AM markets, bringing a higher level of safety to the future of intelligence driving systems.

最後，在將財務數據交給路易斯進行更深入的分析之前，我想先祝賀從營運到產品創新的整個團隊，感謝他們在本季度取得的卓越成績。憑藉第一季的非GAAP獲利和正的經營現金流，我們展現了持續成長的潛力。我們仍然對在ADAS和AM市場發現發展機會的能力充滿信心，致力於為未來的智慧駕駛系統帶來更高水準的安全保障。

Now, I'll turn over the call to Louis to share more details on our financial performance and outlook. Louis, please go ahead.

現在，我將把電話交給路易斯，讓他詳細介紹我們的財務表現和前景。路易斯，請開始。

Thank you, David, and hello, everyone.

謝謝你，大衛，大家好。

We further demonstrated our commercial success with a stellar set of financial and operational numbers in the first quarter. Be mindful of the length of our earnings call today. I encourage listeners to refer to the first quarter earnings press release for further details. We achieved record net revenues of RMB429.9 million, $62.6 million, up 73% year over year, and 5.1% quarter over quarter.

我們第一季的財務和營運數據表現優異，進一步證明了我們的商業成功。請注意今天財報電話會議的時長。我建議各位聽眾參閱第一季財報新聞稿以了解更多詳情。我們實現了創紀錄的淨收入，人民幣4.299億元，即6260萬美元，年增73%，環比增長5.1%。

Product revenues grew even faster, increasing 77.7% year over year to RMB424.1 million, $61.8 million during the quarter. Gross margins were 37.8% for the first quarter, compared with 50.9% for the same period of 2022 and 30.0% for the fourth quarter of 2022 as our revenue continues to shift from higher margin autonomous mobility products to higher volume ADAS sales.

產品收入成長更為迅猛，較去年成長77.7%至人民幣4.241億元（約6,180萬美元）。第一季毛利率為37.8%，而2022年同期為50.9%，2022年第四季為30.0%，主要得益於我們收入來源持續從高利潤率的自動駕駛產品轉向銷量更高的ADAS（高級駕駛輔助系統）銷售。

Although we were pleased with this quarter's gross margin, we do however anticipate a lower gross margin for Q2 and Q3 due to a large volume but low margin order from a leading robotaxi OEM.

儘管我們對本季的毛利率感到滿意，但由於來自領先的機器人出租車 OEM 廠商的大量低利潤訂單，我們預計第二季和第三季的毛利率將會下降。

We anticipate gross margins will rebound in Q4 as the Hertz Center production line kicks in with anticipated higher gross margins with updated ADAS products shipping in volume.

我們預計，隨著赫茲中心生產線的投產，毛利率將在第四季反彈，預計隨著更新的ADAS產品批量出貨，毛利率將更高。

At this early stage, we are willing to sacrifice some gross margin in the short term in exchange for market share gains in the long term, in ADAS and to some degree in the autonomous mobility as well. The ADAS and AM LiDAR markets are at a nascent stage of development. And at this critical point, we are prioritizing market share expansion, but we are still targeting blended gross margins to stabilize in between 30% and 35% in the long term.

在現階段，我們願意在短期內犧牲部分毛利率，以換取長期市佔率的成長，尤其是在ADAS領域以及部分自動駕駛領域。 ADAS和AM LiDAR市場尚處於發展初期。在這個關鍵時刻，我們優先考慮市場份額的擴張，​​但我們仍然致力於將長期綜合毛利率穩定在30%至35%之間。

First quarter deliveries totaled close to 35,000 units, an increase of over 400% year over year, but a slight decline from Q4 due to seasonal factors. We strategically pulled forward some volume in December to mitigate production constraints and manufacturing slowdown in Q1 due to the Chinese New Year holidays. AT deliveries accelerated in March and April, and we anticipate a record second quarter of ADAS and AM deliveries to reach almost 50,000 units, an increase of 40% quarter over quarter, and a tenfold volume increase year over year, which would represent a record high quarterly LiDAR volume for Hesai.

第一季交貨量接近3.5萬台，年增超過400%，但受季節性因素影響，較第四季略有下降。為緩解春節假期對第一季產能和生產放緩的影響，我們提前在12月交付了部分訂單。 AT交付量在3月和4月加速成長，我們預計第二季ADAS和AM交付量將創下歷史新高，接近5萬台，環比增長40%，同比增長十倍，這將使和賽激光雷達的季度交付量達到歷史最高水平。

In the first quarter, we achieved non-GAAP net income of RMB$1.6 million, $$0.2 million, excluding share-based compensation expense of RMB120.5 million, $17.5 million. This increase in share-based compensation expense was mostly attributable to the recognition of one-off expense of RMB90.9 million, $13.2 million, upon the completion of our successful IPO in the quarter in relation to the stock option granted with an IPO trigger condition.

第一季度，我們實現非GAAP淨利潤人民幣160萬元（按現行會計準則計算為20萬美元），不計入股權激勵費用人民幣1.205億元（按現行會計準則計算為1750萬美元）。股權激勵費用的增加主要歸因於本季成功完成IPO後確認的一次性費用人民幣9090萬元（按現行會計準則計算為1320萬美元），該費用與附帶IPO觸發條件的股票期權有關。

Before discussing Hesai's 2023 outlook, we would like to reiterate the statements in our April 17, 2023 press release, responding to Ouster's IP infringement lawsuits against Hesai. We believe Ouster's claims are deeply flawed and lack merit. Hesai's independently developed LiDAR technology is the result of years of investment in research, development, and engineering. Hesai disputes Ouster's allegations of patent infringement and will vigorously defend ourselves against such allegations. Since the lawsuits are pending, upon the advice of counsel, we will not comment further or take any questions on this matter.

在討論和賽科技2023年的展望之前，我們想重申我們在2023年4月17日發布的新聞稿中的聲明，該新聞稿回應了歐斯特公司針對和賽科技提起的知識產權侵權訴訟。我們認為歐斯特公司的指控有嚴重缺陷，缺乏依據。和賽科技自主研發的光達技術是多年來在研發和工程上的成果。和賽科技否認歐斯特公司提出的專利侵權指控，並將積極應訴。由於訴訟仍在進行中，根據律師的建議，我們將不再對此事發表任何評論或接受任何提問。

Now, moving to the financial outlook. For the second quarter of 2023, the company expects our net revenue to be between RMB410 million, $59.7 million, and RMB430 million, $62.6 million, a year over year increase of approximately 94.3% to 103.8%. This represents an expected doubling in Q2 2023 revenues year over year, and an expected ten-fold increase year over year in LiDAR shipments to almost 50,000 units, demonstrating our continued optimization in operational execution and strong market demand for our products.

接下來，我們來看看財務展望。公司預計2023年第二季淨收入將在人民幣4.1億元（5,970萬美元）至人民幣4.3億元（6,260萬美元）之間，年增約94.3%至103.8%。這意味著2023年第二季度營收預計將同比增長一倍，雷射雷達出貨量預計將同比增長十倍，達到近5萬台，這體現了我們在運營執行方面的持續優化以及市場對我們產品的強勁需求。

It should be noted, however, that last year's Q2 was negatively impacted by the COVID lockdown in Shanghai. The above outlook is based on the current market conditions and reflects the company's preliminary estimate of market and operational conditions and customer demand, which are also subject to change.

但需要指出的是，去年第二季的業績受到上海新冠疫情封鎖的負面影響。以上展望是基於當前市場狀況，反映了公司對市場和營運狀況以及客戶需求的初步估計，這些估計也可能發生變化。

In closing, it should be clear to you investors by now that Hesai is the undisputed global leader in the ADAS and autonomous mobility LiDAR markets. In fact, we continue to easily outpace the competition, easily delivering higher annual and quarterly revenues and LiDAR shipments than our six other US-listed LiDAR peers combined.

最後，各位投資者應該已經清楚地認識到，合賽是ADAS和自動駕駛光達市場當之無愧的全球領導者。事實上，我們持續輕鬆超越競爭對手，年度和季度營收以及光達出貨量均遠超其他六家在美國上市的光達同行公司的總和。

This concludes our prepared remarks for today.

我們今天的演講到此結束。

Operator, you are now ready to take questions.

操作員，現在可以開始接聽問題了。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。 （操作說明）

Your first question today comes from Tim from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

今天第一個問題來自摩根士丹利的提姆。請提問。

Hi, David and Louis and Ting. Thanks for taking my questions and congratulations on a strong first quarter result.

嗨，David、Louis 和 Ting。感謝你們回答我的問題，並恭喜你們第一季業績出色。

So I have two questions. The first question is about our gross margin guidance because during the presentation I think Louis mentioned second quarter, third quarter margin would be lower despite the record volume sales due to the product mix. So can we have the rough breakdown between the autonomous and the mechanical LiDAR and the ADAS solid-state ones in first quarter and the second quarter.

我有兩個問題。第一個問題是關於我們的毛利率預期，因為我記得路易斯在演示中提到，儘管銷量創下紀錄，但由於產品組合的原因，第二季和第三季的毛利率將會下降。所以，能否提供一下第一季和第二季自動駕駛光達、機械光達以及ADAS固態光達的大致細分數據？

And separately, when are we going to see the inflection point of more meaningful gross margin improvement, as Louis mentioned, back to like 35% or above? So that's my first question. Thank you.

另外，正如路易斯所提到的，我們什麼時候才能看到毛利率出現更顯著的改善，回到35%或以上？這是我的第一個問題。謝謝。

Thank you, Tim. I'll take this one.

謝謝你，提姆。我要這個了。

For the gross margin for Q1 on AM versus ADAS, we are no longer disclosing the individual breakdowns for competitive reasons. You can imagine that our customers see the same information and use it against us in negotiations. So we are now disclosing a blended gross margin for our company. And as we noted earlier, that's 37.8% up 780 basis points from the prior quarter. So we will no longer be breaking down each individual product line, the gross margins. For the trend, Q2, as you know, we have disclosed, and Q3 will be slightly lower because of a large, the largest order in our history for a robotaxi LiDAR. And so that one, we conceded a lower price to get the volume. The total contract is approximately $200. So it's a huge contract. So it's worth it to us to do that.

基於競爭原因，我們不再揭露第一季AM與ADAS的毛利率細分數據。您可以想像，我們的客戶會看到這些訊息，並在談判中利用這些訊息對我們不利。因此，我們現在揭露的是公司的綜合毛利率。正如我們之前提到的，這一數字為37.8%，比上一季成長了780個基點。所以我們將不再細分每個產品線的毛利率。至於趨勢方面，正如您所知，我們已經披露了第二季度的毛利率，而第三季度的毛利率將略有下降，因為我們收到了一份有史以來最大的機器人出租車雷射雷達訂單。為了獲得這筆訂單，我們降低了價格。該合約的總金額約為2億美元。這是一份巨額合約。因此，對我們來說，這樣做是值得的。

We do believe the inflection point on your last question relates to probably Q4 when the Hertz facility is up and running and producing AT units in volume. At that point, we expect the gross margin to rebound. Our total gross margin guidance for the year remains at 25% to 30%, and our long-term gross margin target it still remains at 30% to 35%. Thank you, Tim.

我們認為您最後一個問題中的拐點可能在第四季度，屆時赫茲工廠將投入運作並開始批量生產AT設備。我們預計屆時毛利率將出現反彈。我們全年毛利率預期仍為25%至30%，長期毛利率目標也維持在30%至35%。謝謝，蒂姆。

Got it. Thank you very much for a detailed answer.

明白了。非常感謝您的詳細解答。

My second question is about the new product. So could the management team elaborate a bit more about Hesai's new product ET25, the In-Cabin LiDAR, regarding the project wins, potential shipment, revenue contribution this year, and how does the margin of this product look like? And separately, without the change to the car body design or the roof line, would ET25 be actually be easier for OEM to install this product in their cars or by any chance to accelerate the process of LiDAR adoption?

我的第二個問題是關於新產品的。管理團隊能否詳細介紹一下合賽的新產品ET25－車載光達？包括項目中標情況、潛在出貨量、今年的營收貢獻以及利潤率情況。另外，在不改變車身設計或車頂線條的情況下，ET25是否真的更容易被OEM廠商安裝到他們的車上，或者說，它是否有可能加速雷射雷達的普及應用？

So that's my second question. Thank you.

這是我的第二個問題。謝謝。

Thank you, Tim. There are two questions, right? One you wanted to know - by the way, this is CEO David Li. So you wanted to know the expected gross margin compared to AT, right? So we don't have this number yet because we don't have signed contract to disclose on the selling price yet. But I could comment is that I think any LiDAR or any in general hardware product, If you are unique, you are traceable for some of the technical features that competitors don't have, usually a product like this enjoys a better margin.

謝謝，蒂姆。有兩個問題，對吧？第一個問題是你想了解的──順便說一下，我是CEO大衛李。你想知道與AT相比，預期毛利率是多少，對嗎？我們目前還沒有這個數字，因為我們還沒有簽署關於售價的合約。但我可以透露的是，我認為任何光達產品，或者任何硬體產品，如果你的產品具有獨特性，擁有一些競爭對手所不具備的技術特性，那麼這類產品通常都能獲得更高的利潤率。

We tend to think ET is a unique product in a sense that it solves quite a few extremely technically challenging aspects of LiDAR. One is that ET stands for Extremely Thin. It's of 25 millimeter height, which makes it possible to install behind the windshield in the cabin. If you didn't have that, if you're very thick, then the problem is that it will be too bulky and it will take up a good part of your windshield as the entire system. That's impossible.

我們認為ET是一款獨特的產品，因為它解決了雷射雷達技術中一些極具挑戰性的難題。其中之一是ET代表“超薄”。它的厚度僅為25毫米，因此可以安裝在車廂內的擋風玻璃後面。如果您的車身較厚，那麼問題在於它會過於笨重，整個系統會佔據擋風玻璃的大部分空間。這顯然是不可接受的。

Second is that if you install something behind the windshield, you can imagine the windshield doesn't really help with long distance detection. It actually hurts it because it absorbs the light on the way out and on the way back in. So it does that twice. So you need to have a very special process, especially highly integrated process with both the OEM and especially the blast maker to do that. We disclosed that, one of our partners is Fuyao Group, one of the biggest auto glass makers in the world. And so it takes a long time to develop processes like this to make sure the seamless integration.

其次，如果在擋風玻璃後面安裝某種裝置，擋風玻璃本身並不能有效輔助遠距離偵測。實際上，它會吸收光線，導致探測效果下降，因為光線在進出時都會被吸收，造成雙重影響。因此，需要一套非常特殊的製程，特別是與原廠配套的製程，尤其是與噴砂設備製造商的製程。我們之前透露過，我們的合作夥伴之一是福耀集團，它是全球最大的汽車玻璃製造商之一。因此，開發此類製程以確保無縫整合需要很長時間。

For those reasons, and also of course on top of it, you need to be very quiet, the NVH needs to be very good. For all those reasons, ET is a very unique product that make it more unique and we expect them to have higher margins if we do this right with the right partner.

基於以上原因，當然，除此之外，還需要非常安靜，NVH性能也必須非常出色。正因如此，ET才是一款非常獨特的產品，我們期望如果能與合適的合作夥伴攜手，以正確的方式推進項目，就能獲得更高的利潤率。

And then your second question is how hard it is to integrate it with the OEM, was that right?

那麼你的第二個問題是，要將它與 OEM 整合有多難，對嗎？

Yes, correct.

是的，沒錯。

Okay, so yeah, it's going to be a little more challenging than AT itself. AT is extremely standardized, right? Everyone pretty much gets the same hardware. For ET, the platform is the same, but there is integration work. And that's why we are starting to engage with quite a few domestic and the global OEMs in starting to try to integrate that into their vehicles before they give us official nomination because it's well understood that it is a interactive process with a customer.

好的，沒錯，這比自排變速箱（AT）本身更具挑戰性。自動變速箱非常標準化，對吧？幾乎所有廠商都使用相同的硬體。而對於增強型變速箱（ET），平台雖然相同，但需要進行整合工作。因此，我們正在與許多國內外的汽車製造商接洽，嘗試在他們正式提名我們之前將ET整合到他們的車輛中，因為我們都明白，這是一個與客戶互動的過程。

I actually consider this is a good thing because this makes it further unique as a product. Especially if you use our ET, it'd be more challenging for somebody else to come in and try to replace us just because they have the performance. Integration is also very challenging.

我其實認為這是件好事，因為這讓我們的產品更具獨特性。特別是如果您使用我們的ET系統，其他廠商想要憑藉其性能優勢取而代之將會更加困難。整合也極具挑戰性。

Okay, that's my --

好的，這就是我的——

Got it. Thank you very much for all your detailed sharing, David and Louis, thank you.

明白了。非常感謝David和Louis的詳細分享，謝謝你們。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. Your next question comes from Bin from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.

謝謝。下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的Bin，請問問題。

Thank you everyone. I also got a question about a gross margin because the full year would be 25 to 30%. If I want to decouple by quarter, I have an easy calculation to show that. Your second and third quarter may be, if it is 15% gross margin, and the last quarter may be 30% gross margin, can achieve this full year 25 to 30% guidance. So can you correct me if my calculation's wrong about the margin, especially in the number four quarter, because otherwise on the margin to cover in the number four quarter. Thank you.

謝謝大家。我還有一個關於毛利率的問題，因為全年毛利率預計在25%到30%之間。如果我想按季度進行分析，我可以輕鬆地計算出來。假設第二季和第三季的毛利率是15%，而最後一季的毛利率是30%，那麼就可以達到全年25%到30%的預期目標。所以，如果我的計算有誤，請指正，特別是關於第四季的毛利率，因為否則第四季的毛利率無法涵蓋虧損。謝謝。

Next question, can you give me the number four quarter margin guidance? Thank you.

下一個問題，能否提供一下第四季利潤率的預期？謝謝。

Yeah, thank you, thank you, Wang Bing, it's Louis. As I said earlier, we won't give you quarter by quarter analysis on the gross margin, but based on your calculation, it makes sense what you said. So 37.8% for Q1, Q2 will be slightly lower, as you already indicated. Q3 will be lower as well, and Q4 will rebound. And our target is 25 to 30% for the year. It's still intact.

是的，謝謝，謝謝，王兵，我是路易斯。正如我之前所說，我們不會提供季度毛利率分析，但根據你的計算，你說的很有道理。所以第一季是37.8%，第二季會略低一些，如你之前提到的。第三季也會更低，第四季會反彈。我們全年的目標是25%到30%，這個目標不變。

So, Wang Bin, I wanted to give you a little more insight on what's happening as we transition. So, we talk about that it's going to be a V-shape on growth margin this year and Q2, Q3 are relatively lower compared to Q1. And Q4 will be better on all the products and also on the blended.

王斌，我想就我們轉型期間的情況再深入分析一下。我們之前討論過，今年的成長利潤率將呈現V型走勢，第二季和第三季的業績會比第一季略低。第四季所有產品以及混合產品的業績都會有所改善。

So let's look at them in two sectors separately. So robotaxi, we had the biggest order in our history, but that order is a big order that's spanning over a couple years. So you can imagine for a big order like that, it's a negotiated price of over the lifetime. But the truth is that for this year, as we're starting to shift in small volume, the margin is low. That's why Q2, Q3 had some impact, some impact, limited impact, but some impact on the margins.

所以讓我們分別從兩個領域來看。就自動駕駛計程車而言，我們拿到了史上最大的訂單，但這份訂單金額龐大，而且跨越了好幾年。你可以想像，像這樣的大訂單，價格是在整個生命週期中協商確定的。但事實上，今年我們開始轉向小批量生產，利潤率很低。這就是為什麼第二季和第三季的利潤率受到了一定程度的影響，雖然影響有限，但確實受到了一些影響。

But starting next year, we will have upgraded product on the Pandar series that will bring the robotaxi margin to a reasonable level for robotaxi, which is historically higher than ADAS.

但從明年開始，我們將對 Pandar 系列進行產品升級，這將使自動駕駛計程車的利潤率達到自動駕駛計程車的合理水平，而自動駕駛計程車的利潤率歷來高於 ADAS。

Similar phenomenon happens for our ADAS growth margin. The fact that we were starting in small volume last year and start to ramp up this year. And then as part of the negotiation with the customer, we have slightly lower ASP compared to last year. And we also try to address this by upgrading our technology on the semiconductor side on the product. And also as we ramp up in volume, we will be further able to take the advantage of the economy of scale.

我們的ADAS成長利潤率也存在類似情況。去年我們起步規模較小，今年開始逐步擴大規模。作為與客戶談判的一部分，我們的平均售價（ASP）略低於去年。同時，我們也在努力透過升級產品半導體方面的技術來解決這個問題。此外，隨著產量的提升，我們將能夠進一步發揮規模經濟的優勢。

That's why we expect by Q4, the ADAS margins will be back to a healthy number. And that's why we're taking this V shape, but we already see on the technical side and on the economic side that this will happen.

因此，我們預計到第四季度，ADAS利潤率將恢復到健康水準。這也是我們採用V型走勢圖的原因，但無論從技術層面或經濟層面來看，我們都已經預見到這種情況將會發生。

The final point there, Wang Bin, is that the Hertz center will be open in Q4 and that has lower manufacturing costs.

王斌，最後一點是，赫茲中心將於第四季開業，其製造成本較低。

Thank you. And my second question about the volume. Can you provide a full year volume guidance again? Especially in the second quarter, because you think that the ASP will decline because you ran the guidance similar as the first quarter, but volume has been 40% increase. Can I assume the second quarter, the ADAS have a much higher growth than the 40% Q-on-Q, but AM, Pandar will be stable?

謝謝。我的第二個問題是關於銷量的。您能否再次提供全年的銷售預期？特別是第二季的銷售預期，因為您認為平均售價（ASP）會下降，這是因為您之前的預期與第一季類似，但銷量卻成長了40%。我是否可以假設第二季ADAS的環比成長遠高於40%，而AM和Pandar的銷量將保持穩定？

Is that the right assumption for the mix, for the second quarter in volume? Thank you.

這樣的假設對於第二季的銷售量組成是否正確？謝謝。

Yes certainly ADAS is growing in Q2, because in Q1, as we mentioned, Chinese New Year holiday, the deliveries were pulled forward into December of last year. I think the year-over-year guidance, it stays in about 240 to 260,000 total units, of which 220 to 230,000 are still expected to be ADAS.

是的，ADAS在第二季確實有所成長，因為正如我們之前提到的，第一季受春節假期影響，交貨量提前到了去年12月。我認為年比預期總銷量仍維持在24萬至26萬輛左右，其中ADAS預計仍將佔22萬至23萬輛。

So there's no change in the annual guidance, which means that Q3 and Q4 obviously will be a higher ramp in ADAS. And remember, by Q3, late Q3, six OEMs will be shipping. And by Q4, we have 11 OEMs for next year. Many of them will be taking some significant delivery numbers in Q4 as they wrap up for their model release in 2024.

因此，年度預期保持不變，這意味著ADAS業務在第三季和第四季的成長率顯然會更快。請記住，到第三季末，將有六家OEM廠商開始出貨。到第四季度，明年將有11家OEM廠商開始出貨。其中許多廠商將在第四季度迎來顯著的交付量，因為他們正在為2024年的車型發布做準備。

So Q4 we expect the largest volume for ADAS in Q4, which has traditionally been the case for us. I know it's only been two years, but we expect a larger volume of ADAS in Q4. And then with the Hertz Center up, the margin should go up.

因此，我們預期第四季ADAS的銷售量將達到最大，這與我們以往的預期一致。我知道這只是兩年前的情況，但我們預計第四季ADAS的銷量會更高。此外，隨著赫茲中心的啟用，利潤率應該也會提高。

How about a second quarter mix? Thank you.

第二季的曲目搭配如何？謝謝。

Second quarter mix, well I think we're targeting over 40,000 ADAS units, and then the remainder will be the autonomous mobility, Pandar, QT, and XT. So it should be slightly over 40,000 units for ADAS is what we're targeting. It's not done yet, there's still a lot of work to do. So we said almost 50,000 is our target.

第二季的產品組合方面，我們的目標是ADAS車型超過4萬輛，其餘部分將用於自動駕駛出行，包括Pandar、QT和XT。所以我們ADAS車型的目標銷售量應該略高於4萬輛。當然，這還沒最終確定，還有很多工作要做。因此，我們之前的目標是接近5萬輛。

Thanks so much. That's all my questions, thank you.

非常感謝。我的問題就這些了，謝謝。

Thank you, the next question comes from Olivia from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

謝謝，下一個問題來自高盛的奧莉維亞。請提問。

Thank you, David and Louis.

謝謝大衛和路易斯。

There are two questions from my side. The first question is about the pricing cut in the EV industry. Has the general pricing cut in the first quarter been passed to the upstream LiDAR yet? And also, what's the expectation of the EV pricing trend in the next few quarters? If there is another round of pricing cut, how would that impact the price and the margin for the ADAS LiDAR products?

我有兩個問題。第一個問題是關於電動車產業的降價。第一季的整體降價是否已經傳導至上游光達產品？另外，未來幾季電動車的價格走勢如何？如果再次降價，會對ADAS雷射雷達產品的價格和利潤率產生怎樣的影響？

Thank you, Olivia. This is David. We anticipated limited impact for a few reasons.

謝謝你，奧莉維亞。我是大衛。我們預計影響有限，原因有幾個。

Well, the first reason is that the type of price first, so the nature of those multi-year contracts is that we negotiated price at the earliest stage of this contract, essentially they're locked in. And they have a projection on the volume, but yes, of course, it's depending on their actual volume shipment.

首先，價格類型是關鍵。這些多年合約的特點是，我們在合約初期就協商了價格，基本上價格就鎖定了。他們對銷售有預期，但當然，最終價格取決於他們的實際出貨量。

But when there is a price cut on the customer side, the contract we have with them on the nomination still holds. And then of course, more importantly, it's the volume. We're very fortunate that our biggest SOP customer, Li Auto, is going very strong. And that's one of the bigger reasons that we still are very optimistic on the guidance we gave. Especially given the fact that earlier this year when we had the original guidance, we already knew there was going to be a price war. And usually OEMs knew that way before the rest of the market and that was also part of the negotiation we had prior to this.

但即便客戶降價，我們與他們簽訂的提名合約仍然有效。當然，更重要的是銷量。我們非常幸運，我們最大的SOP客戶理想汽車目前發展勢頭強勁。這也是我們仍然對先前給出的業績指引保持樂觀的主要原因之一。尤其考慮到，今年稍早我們發布最初的業績指引時，就已經預料到會有一場價格戰。通常情況下，OEM廠商會比其他市場參與者更早意識到這一點，這也是我們先前談判的一部分。

So we're actually now seeing that our customers, especially the top ones, are going very strong. And then if we put money aside, if we purely talk about technology, if you think about it, LiDAR is not your leather seat because it provides a very strong access function on the safety side. Most of the OEMs are using LiDAR as one of their top selling points to help them sell vehicles as opposed to just purely a cost. So that's why a lot of people, even for the cheaper models, they're still considering using LiDAR to help them differentiate from the rest of the peers who offer a slightly inferior product just because they didn't have LiDAR-equipped driving systems.

所以我們現在看到，我們的客戶，尤其是那些頂級客戶，發展勢頭非常強勁。拋開資金因素，單就技術而言，仔細想想，光達（LiDAR）並非只是真皮座椅，它在安全方面提供了非常強大的功能。大多數汽車製造商（OEM）都將光達作為其主要賣點之一，以幫助他們銷售車輛，而不僅僅是將其視為一項成本。因此，即使是價格較低的車型，許多廠商仍然考慮使用光達，以幫助其與那些僅僅因為沒有配備光達駕駛系統而提供略遜一籌的產品的競爭對手區分開來。

So that's why we're also seeing a lot of interest, even though some of the prices have gone down. LiDAR hasn't been the configurations that they turn off.

所以這就是為什麼即使一些產品的價格下降，我們仍然看到許多人對此感興趣的原因。光達功能並沒有被關閉。

And then the last point I want to make, again, is that I feel like if you treat LiDAR as a pure hardware, it's kind of unfair because traditionally when you buy a car, the value of the car depreciates over time as a pure hardware. But an intelligent driving ADAS system with LiDAR, the moment you buy it, the value actually goes up over time as they keep developing more software on it and they push to the customer. So essentially, after buying a car in six months or 12 months, your car could be more valuable to you because it provides more functions via the software.

最後我想再次強調一點，如果把光達僅僅看作一種硬件，那就有點不公平了。因為傳統上，買車之後，車輛本身的價值會隨著時間而貶值，這完全是硬體層面的問題。但是，如果是配備雷射雷達的智慧駕駛輔助系統（ADAS），那麼從你購買的那一刻起，它的價值實際上就會隨著軟體的不斷開發和應用而提升。所以，實際上，買車六個月或一年後，你的車可能就更有價值了，因為它透過軟體提供了更多功能。

One of the interesting example we started to see on the market is for example for Li Auto L9 with our LiDARs, right? And their [LED] function with LiDARs became much strong and there was verifiable evidence that this became a much safer feature. And then L9 also scored five starts in the industry NCAP crash safety test. I think to be fair to say that LiDAR was a critical part of this. And that is all the value that LiDAR is providing to the customer, and that's also the reason we believe the market will start to adopt that actually in an increasing manner.

市場上一個有趣的例子是理想汽車L9，它搭載了我們的光達。 L9的LED功能與雷射雷達的結合顯著增強，並且有確鑿的證據表明，這大大提高了安全性。此外，L9還在業界領先的NCAP撞擊測試中獲得了五星評級。我認為，光達在其中發揮了至關重要的作用。這就是光達為客戶帶來的價值所在，也是我們相信市場將會越來越多地採用這項技術的原因。

Thank you, that's very clear.

謝謝，這很清楚。

My second question is about the 4D middle wave radar. What's your view on that? Would that be a supplement or the substitute to LiDAR?

我的第二個問題是關於4D中波雷達的。您對此有何看法？它會是光達的補充還是替代品？

Yeah, great question. Yes, we do believe they're complementary at this stage. So, well, it's kind of a bigger question because we probably won't be able to comment without mentioning one of the companies who hasn't used the LiDAR, Tesla, right? So, at least from my opinion, it's great that Tesla is considering using 4D radars because for me, from a technical standpoint, this is a strong message that Tesla agrees that vision only system isn't sufficient. At least they used to say that all I needed is a camera because human don't need other than our eyes to drive. But now they're voting to incorporate more sensors because it really makes perfect sense for technology to complement each other, for sensor fusion to function in a much safer way than one sensor alone as they see different part of the world, right?

嗯，問得好。是的，我們認為它們目前是互補的。不過，這其實是個更大的問題，因為我們如果不提及特斯拉——一家尚未採用光達的公司——就很難發表評論，對吧？至少在我看來，特斯拉考慮使用4D雷達是件好事，因為從技術角度來看，這有力地顯示特斯拉也認同僅靠視覺系統是不夠的。他們以前還說只需要一個攝影機就夠了，因為人類開車只需要眼睛就夠了。但現在他們決定採用更多感測器，因為技術之間相互補充才是明智之舉，感測器融合比單一感測器更安全，因為它們可以感知到不同的區域，對吧？

So if we agree with that, I think the natural question is that we do agree you need a multi-sensor modality, multi-sensor fusion. There's radar, there's LiDAR, and there's a camera. How do people make the decision in the end? I feel like in the end now it's not a technical decision. More sensors are always better. It's a commercial decision, how affordable we can make it.

所以如果我們都同意這一點，那麼很自然的問題是，我們是否都認同需要多感測器模式、多感測器融合。有雷達、光達和攝影機。最終人們如何做出決定？我覺得現在這不再是技術問題。感測器越多越好，而是一個商業問題，即我們如何讓價格更親民。

Today, 4D radar isn't cheap. 4D radar is still a fraction of LiDAR, but not by a huge factor, probably two, three roughly. And we're seeing the LiDAR being more affordable. If you see the history of LiDAR will be much more affordable and the trend is going, right?

如今，4D雷達並不便宜。雖然4D雷達的價格仍然遠低於光達，但差距並不大，大概只有兩到三倍。而且我們看到光達的價格正在逐漸降低。縱觀雷射雷達的發展歷程，它的價格最終會更加親民，而且這種趨勢還在繼續，對吧？

And then the last thing is you want to compare the performance. 4D radar due to nature of the wavelength that's roughly a thousand times longer than the LiDAR, it sees limited sets of objects. For example, it would be much more challenging for 4D radar to see stuff like lost cargo. It would be hard to see a tire because the conductivity of those objects are difficult. Even for humans, it's much more difficult for radar to see compared to LiDARs. So it doesn't cover the full set. And lastly, but very importantly, the resolution. Resolution for 4D radar is very limited. Used to be even worse for 3D radar. Today, 4D radar is about roughly 1% of the resolution of LiDAR, like 100 times of difference.

最後一點是效能比較。由於波長比光達長約一千倍，4D雷達的偵測範圍有限。例如，4D雷達很難偵測到遺失的貨物。輪胎也很難被探測到，因為輪胎的導電性很差。即使對人類來說，雷達探測輪胎也比光達困難得多。因此，4D雷達的偵測範圍並不全面。最後，也是非常重要的一點，就是解析度。 4D雷達的分辨率非常有限。以前的3D雷達解析度更差。如今，4D雷達的分辨率大約只有光達的1%，相差約100倍。

A good analogy would be when the resolution's so low, it's like you have short-sighted eyes without glass, and you're driving like that because you only have 1% of the resolution. Is it better than not having your eyes? Yes, I would agree, but that might not be a very good argument if you want to replace LiDAR.

打個比方，解析度低到就像你近視眼沒戴眼鏡，只能靠1%的解析度開車一樣。這比瞎眼好嗎？是的，我同意，但如果你想用光達取代光達，這可能就不是一個有力的論點了。

So then in the end, if you look at it, really, LiDAR is much better in performance, becoming cheaper and cheaper over time, and this is a verified sensor to be the critical part of the driving system, and everyone agrees that sensor fusion is critical. That's why we're still very optimistic, actually more excited that more companies are looking into the fact that vision only isn't going to be sufficient.

所以最終，仔細分析就會發現，光達的性能遠勝於其他感測器，而且隨著時間的推移，它的成本會越來越低。光達已被證實是駕駛系統的關鍵部件，大家都認同感測器融合至關重要。也因為如此，我們依然非常樂觀，事實上，我們更興奮的是，越來越多的公司開始意識到，光靠視覺是不夠的。

Thank you very much, that's all my questions.

非常感謝，我的問題就這些了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Your next question comes from Paul from UBS. Please go ahead.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的保羅，請問問題。

Yeah, thanks guys for taking my questions.

謝謝各位回答我的問題。

I have only one question regarding the innovation in terms of the direction and the pace. So when you are thinking today and imagine the LiDAR products next two years later, what would be the key areas to improve? Is it going to be resolution? Is it going to be range? Is it going to be durability? Is it going to be cost structure? Or just the size and shape of the LiDAR?

關於光達產品在方向和速度方面的創新，我只有一個問題。想像一下，如果現在展望未來兩年，光達產品的發展方向，您認為需要重點改進的領域是什麼？是解析度？是探測距離？是耐用性？是成本結構？還是只是光達的尺寸和形狀？

So, the reason I'm asking this question is if the innovation pace is too slow, of course that would limit the adoption of LiDAR, but if it's too quick for anyone who might be (inaudible) driving for the next 10 years, for the first two years he is happy, the state of art LiDAR, but for the remaining eight years his high-end, expensive large SUV would be on backwards LiDAR compared to the latest products by then in the market. So how should we think about this balance in terms of the innovation, in terms of both the pace as well as the direction? The products, let's say two years later, if it's better than today, where it would be better? Thank you.

我之所以問這個問題，是因為如果創新速度太慢，當然會限制激光雷達的普及；但如果創新速度太快，對於那些可能在未來十年內（聽不清）開車的人來說，前兩年他或許會很滿意，因為使用的是最先進的激光雷達；但在接下來的八年裡，他那輛高端、昂貴的大型SUV所使用的最新的光達；但在接下來的八年裡，他那輛高端、昂貴的大型SUV所使用的最新產品，屆時市場上就會落後的新光雷達，與屆時市場上所使用的最新產品相比，了最新的光達產品。那麼，我們該如何看待創新的這種平衡，包括速度和方向？比如說，兩年後的產品，如果比現在更好，那它有哪些優勢？謝謝。

Thank you. Thank you, Paul. This is David. I totally agree that you don't want to be too fast and you definitely don't want to be too slow in pushing forward the pace of the innovation. So let's divide that into a few technical aspects. I will talk about what we think we've done and what we think remains as a potential and a path moving forward.

謝謝。謝謝你，保羅。我是大衛。我完全同意，在推進創新方面，既不能操之過急，也不能過於緩慢。那麼，讓我們從幾個技術層面來探討這個問題。我會談談我們認為已經完成的工作，以及我們認為仍然存在的潛力和未來的發展方向。

First is distance. So today it's roughly 200 meters and some of the competing technology has 250 meters and we're also moving in that direction. I think it's roughly meeting the expectation.

首先是距離。目前大約是200米，有些競爭對手的技術可以達到250米，我們也朝著這個方向努力。我認為它基本上符合預期。

Second is form factor. Form factor is interesting because it's not about how big it is, it's about how you install that. So I think we made a major progress in being able to install that, make it so small and install that behind the windshield. I feel like that part the market is extremely excited about and we definitely see a lot of potential for doing so. So that part is done.

其次是外形尺寸。外形尺寸很有意思，因為它不在於尺寸大小，而是安裝方式。我認為我們在安裝方面取得了重大進展，使其體積小巧，並能安裝在擋風玻璃後面。我覺得市場對這方面非常感興趣，我們也看到了它巨大的潛力。所以這部分已經完成了。

And then I want to talk about what hasn't been fully done and remains as the opportunity and the challenges. One is resolution. Let me give an apple to apple example. So if you think about it, the typical good camera for cars today is eight megapixels per frame. 8 million pixels, right?

然後我想談談尚未完全完成、仍有機會和挑戰的事情。其中之一是分辨率。我舉個例子來說明。想想看，如今典型的優質車載攝影機每幀的像素是800萬。 800萬像素，對吧？

So LiDAR, what we have today is only 1.5 per second, which means that it's a tenth of it per frame, which is 150K per frame. 150K versus 8 million, that's like 60 sometimes room of improvement for LiDAR resolution to meet camera, which is a natural thing people would want. So we have 60 more times to innovate.

所以，我們目前的光達每秒只能捕捉到1.5幀，這意味著每幀只有十分之一的分辨率，也就是每幀15萬像素。 15萬像素對比800萬像素，光達的解析度還有大約60倍的提升空間，才能達到相機的水平，而這正是人們所期望的。因此，我們還有60倍的創新空間。

Of course, our next generation will significantly shorten -- close this gap, but that's one of the opportunities we're looking at. And the other one is price. I won't be able to give you specific numbers, but we definitely see for some of the lower end cars, they probably don't want to pay the close to $1,000 level price, and they want some cheaper versions that will have limited function, but still LiDAR is like your invisible airbag. You definitely want it for added safety. So we're also seeing that.

當然，我們的下一代產品將會顯著縮小差距，這正是我們正在關注的機會之一。另一個機會是價格。我無法提供具體數字，但我們確實看到，對於一些低端車型，消費者可能不願意支付接近1000美元的價格，他們想要一些功能有限的廉價版本，但光達就像隱形安全氣囊一樣，能顯著提升安全性。所以我們也看到了這一點。

And then, Hesai, as a company is very determined to be able to take advantage of our in-house manufacturing and our strong semiconductor platform to be able to drive down the cost. If anybody, I feel like we have the best chance to do that.

此外，Hesai公司決心充分利用我們內部的製造能力和強大的半導體平台來降低成本。我認為，如果有哪家公司最有機會做到這一點，那就是我們。

So that remains a challenge and the biggest opportunity moving forward. Those are the things that are on my mind to move forward.

所以這既是挑戰，也是未來發展的最大機會。這些都是我目前思考並著手解決的問題。

Okay, thank you so much. Very helpful.

好的，非常感謝。這很有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. Your next question comes from [Tony Chen] from HuaTai Securities.

謝謝。下一個問題來自華泰證券的[Tony Chen]。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Hi, David and Louis in management. Thank you for taking my questions. As we saw the intense EV competition in China and some ease back trend from the product, many functions will be trapped in their low-end model and become optional in their high-end product. This is one trend. And as Tesla, you just mentioned, they choose to use pure vision and they use only camera to be their platform for autonomous driving. Did you see China EV brand will follow this trend from our perspective? Will these two do trends slow down the adoption rate of the LiDAR final perspective? That's my first question.

您好，David 和 Louis，管理階層。感謝您回答我的問題。正如我們所見，中國電動車市場競爭激烈，一些產品也出現了功能縮減的趨勢，許多功能將被限制在低端車型中，而在高端車型中則成為選配。這是其中一個趨勢。正如您剛才提到的特斯拉，他們選擇使用純視覺技術，僅使用攝影機作為其自動駕駛平台。從我們的角度來看，您認為中國電動車品牌會效仿這一趨勢嗎？這兩種趨勢是否會減緩雷射雷達最終視覺技術的普及速度？這是我的第一個問題。

Sure. Thank you. Let me make it very clear. I think the reason I mentioned Tesla is a friend, not an enemy, in the sense that they're actually acknowledging that camera alone isn't sufficient because they're introducing grade 4D radars. So again, my argument is that Tesla used to claim very confidently that vision only is sufficient and now by introducing 4D radars, at least we know they now agree that multimodality sensor fusion is going to be very, very helpful for increased safety.

當然。謝謝。讓我把話說清楚。我認為我提到特斯拉是因為他們是我的朋友，而不是敵人，因為他們實際上已經承認單靠攝影機是不夠的，因為他們正在引入4D雷達。所以，我的觀點是，特斯拉過去曾非常自信地聲稱僅憑視覺就足夠了，而現在透過引入4D雷達，至少我們知道他們現在也認同多模態感測器融合對於提高安全性非常有幫助。

So that's what I see. That's the reason I'm more excited for this because I feel like if LiDARs we keep going in the direction make it better and cheaper, there's a very good chance that people would agree that this is this should be part of their systems.

這就是我的看法。這也是我對此更加興奮的原因，因為我覺得如果光達技術繼續朝著更好、更便宜的方向發展，人們很有可能會認同它應該成為他們系統的一部分。

So and then back to your question on the China EV. So I think I also talked about it already. We are seeing even for the cheaper models they want this to be a differentiator and then for smart EVs, LiDAR is one of the iconic [things]. Yes, today for very low end models, it's relatively expensive. We're also making the effort to hopefully drive down the cost. So, we're already seeing a wide range of adoptions. This year and next, by next year, we'll be shipping with 11 OEMs. Some of them are on the more affordable models, but they still use it. And some of them even use that as a standard configuration for all the cars they ship because they see that as a strong safety feature that they cannot live without.

回到您關於中國電動車的問題。我想我之前也有提到過。我們看到，即使是價格較低的車型，廠商也希望將光達作為差異化賣點。而對於智慧電動車來說，光達更是標誌性技術之一。沒錯，目前對於低階車型來說，光達的成本相對較高。我們也在努力降低成本。目前，我們已經看到雷射雷達的應用範圍很廣。今年和明年，我們將與11家汽車製造商合作，為其提供配套的光達。其中一些廠商將其應用於價格較低的車型，但他們仍然在使用光達。還有一些廠商甚至將其作為所有車型的標準配置，因為他們認為這是一項重要的安全功能，不可或缺。

Okay, that's great.

好的，太好了。

And my second question is, could you give us more about the R&D progress in ASIC solutions in your LiDAR you just mentioned in opening remarks? And what's your strategy and how important will this technology will be to win competitive advantages? Thanks.

我的第二個問題是，您能否詳細介紹一下您在開場白中提到的光達專用積體電路（ASIC）解決方案的研發進展？您的戰略是什麼？這項技術對於贏得競爭優勢有多重要？謝謝。

Sorry, can you say it again, the question?

抱歉，您能再說一次您的問題嗎？

Yes, can you give us more color about the R&D progress in ASIC solutions? Just like chips or something --

是的，可以詳細介紹一下ASIC解決方案的研發進度嗎？比如晶片之類的——

ASIC.

ASIC。

Yes.

是的。

So we're at the development of the fourth generation. So each generation is a major step forward in more highly integrated components to further reduce the cost while having exponentially higher performance. When we talk about performance, we're talking about a few things. One is the range. Today, we're about 180 to 200 meter range. And then our next generation is going to go way beyond that. And the reason we're able to do that is we made a lot of progress on the component, the laser and the receiver side, to be able to drive that part of the efficiency up.

我們現在正處於第四代產品的研發階段。每一代產品都是在組件整合度方面取得重大進步，從而進一步降低成本，同時實現指數級提升的效能。說到性能，我們指的是幾個方面​​。首先是探測距離。目前，我們的探測距離約為180至200公尺。而下一代產品的探測距離將遠遠超過這個數字。我們之所以能夠做到這一點，是因為我們在組件方面取得了長足的進步，包括雷射和接收器，從而顯著提高了這部分的效率。

In a way, for lack of analogies, like your cell phone camera 20 years ago, If you take a photo at night, you barely see anything. Now it's super clear and sees more things than your eyes. And now we're driving our components in that direction to be able to detect further.

某種程度上來說，雖然找不到合適的比喻，但就像20年前的手機相機一樣，如果你晚上拍照，幾乎什麼都看不清楚。現在它超級清晰，能看到的東西比你的眼睛還多。而現在，我們正朝著這個方向發展我們的組件，以便能夠探測到更遠的地方。

ASIC also allows us to handle way more data as we send out the light pulses and receive them because we used to, our current AT is 1.5 million points. Our next generation will be many times more than that. The reason for that is our ASIC handles way more laser pulses and we can just multiply a big factor on what we do many points per second wise.

ASIC晶片也能讓我們處理更多的數據，因為我們發送和接收光脈衝的速度更快。目前，我們的AT晶片每秒只能處理150萬個資料點。下一代晶片的處理能力將是現在的數倍。原因在於ASIC晶片可以處理更多的雷射脈衝，從而大幅提升我們每秒處理的資料點數量。

So resolution wise, there's a huge (inaudible) there. And also if you are familiar with Moore's Law, we're also seeing that trend in the sense that for every unit the ASP isn't declining as very fast, but the performance per point is declining a lot because we're having many x of increase on the resolution. So this is what ASIC is allowing us to do. And on top of it, it gave us a better security chain management ability because we used to source a lot from different vendors for some of the semiconductors, now, we just own the design and just ask a foundry to do that for us. And we're using very mature process node. So it's very much safer for us to work with foundries not having to manage a global supply chain system.

所以，在解析度方面，提升非常顯著。如果您熟悉摩爾定律，我們也看到了類似的趨勢：雖然每個單元的平均售價下降速度並不快，但每點效能卻大幅下降，因為解析度實現了數倍的提升。這就是ASIC技術讓我們能夠做到的。此外，它還提升了我們的供應鏈管理能力，因為過去我們需要從不同的供應商購買一些半導體元件，而現在，我們只需擁有設計，然後委託代工廠進行生產即可。而且，我們採用的是非常成熟的製程節點。因此，與代工廠合作，無需管理全球供應鏈系統，對我們來說更安全可靠。

Okay, very clear, thanks. That's all my questions.

好的，非常清楚，謝謝。我的問題就這些了。

Thank you. Yes, thank you.

謝謝。是的，謝謝。

Thank you, your next question comes from Joel from Nomura, please go ahead.

謝謝，下一個問題來自野村證券的Joel，請問問題。

Thank you, Management, for taking my questions. So I'm asking for, when management mentioned about the annual cost cut from OEM side, I want to, can we share generally the situation here in terms of the annual cost cut level? If we cannot talk about the detailed numbers, can we say that's low single digit or maybe high single digit, can we talk about that?

感謝管理層抽空回答我的問題。我想問的是，管理階層之前提到OEM廠商的年度成本削減計劃，我們能否大致了解一下年度成本削減的幅度？如果不能透露具體數字，能否說削減幅度在個位數低點或個位數高點？

And also in terms of the OEM attitude to what LiDAR was talking about, low-end car makers also, low-end car brands also thinking about the LiDAR adoption, but in terms of the current situation, I would say because of the price competition in OEM market, do we see any further pressures or OEMs be more cautious in cost efficiency in this year, and maybe impact the LiDAR market in the short term? Do we see any impact or any concern from OEM side? Thank you.

此外，就OEM廠商對光達的態度而言，低端汽車製造商和品牌也考慮採用光達。但就目前情況而言，考慮到OEM市場的價格競爭，我們是否會看到進一步的壓力，或者OEM廠商今年是否會更加謹慎地考慮成本效益，這是否會在短期內影響雷射雷達市場？我們是否看到OEM廠商方面有任何影響或擔憂？謝謝。

On your first question, Joel, this is Louis, regarding the price decline, we would estimate about five to 10% a year, year over year decline in the ASP side. But as David mentioned earlier, our contract is signed for the whole year. So they're kind of locked in, and sometimes it's multiple years where the price is locked in. As far as the OEM adoption of lower price LiDAR in the competition, like I said, it's a long uphill process, because they've already integrated with our LiDAR into their new models. It takes time to change. There is severe price competition, and we've faced that the last two or three years, and that's why the price has come down.

關於你的第一個問題，喬爾，我是路易斯。關於價格下降，我們估計平均售價（ASP）每年會下降5%到10%。但正如大衛之前提到的，我們的合約是全年簽訂的。所以他們基本上被鎖定了，有時價格甚至會鎖定好幾年。至於OEM廠商是否會採用競爭對手價格更低的光達，就像我說的，這是一個漫長的過程，因為他們已經把我們的光達整合到他們的新車型中了。改變需要時間。價格競爭非常激烈，過去兩三年我們一直面臨這種競爭，這也是價格下降的原因。

A lot of companies used to pick just based on price, and then they've regretted it since because the performance is quite poor, or the quality. So I think that we're hoping that, and expecting that price competition evades compared to the performance, has the best LiDAR providers come out and able to show that they can produce auto-grade LiDAR at affordable prices. So I think the price competition is beginning to wane a little bit. There's more about your product and a price that's affordable.

許多公司過去只看價格，後來卻後悔不已，因為產品的性能或品質往往很差。所以我認為，我們希望並期待性能不再是價格競爭的焦點，而是能夠吸引最優秀的光達供應商，讓他們證明自己能夠以合理的價格生產出車用級光達。因此，我認為價格競爭正在逐漸減弱。現在，產品本身和價格是否合理才是最重要的。

You had a second question? Sorry, I didn't catch that correctly.

您還有第二個問題嗎？抱歉，我沒聽清楚。

Okay, thank you. I actually wanted to follow up. So in terms of the, because of the current market situation, so in terms of the short-term target, I mean, or the task for the companies, so what's the key? It's about the cost down. It's about the new technology innovation. In terms of short term, maybe within 2023. I guess that would be the cost down would be the first half, short term, yes.

好的，謝謝。我其實想再追問一下。鑑於目前的市場情勢，就短期目標而言，或說企業面臨的任務，關鍵是什麼？是降低成本，是新技術創新。就短期而言，或許在2023年之前，我猜降低成本應該是上半年的重點，是的。

Short term is not as big a factor for us because the prices were locked in last year or at this point and those models are coming out. So and most of them are actually going to be delivered in 2024. So other than Li Auto, Lotus, Jidu, four or five players in our universe, the ones that we sell to, there aren't a lot of new companies releasing cars this year for the short term. So, and then they're gearing up for 2024. And because LiDAR is a competitive advantage differentiator in the market, as competition increases, you want to have it.

短期因素對我們來說並不重要，因為價格去年或現在就已經鎖定，而且這些車型即將上市。實際上，大部分車型將在2024年交付。除了理想汽車、路特斯、極度汽車這四、五家我們合作的廠商之外，今年短期內並沒有太多新車發表。所以，他們都在為2024年做準備。由於光達是市場上的競爭優勢，隨著競爭加劇，擁有這項技術至關重要。

So in the short term, to answer your question, is probably very, very little impact since not that many models are shipping yet. Longer term, we'll have to see.

所以短期來看，回答你的問題，影響可能非常非常小，因為目前出貨的型號還不多。至於長期影響，我們還需要觀察。

Okay, got you, thanks.

好的，明白了，謝謝。

Thank you. Your next question comes from [Olivia] from Haitong International Securities. Please go ahead.

謝謝。下一個問題來自海通國際證券的[Olivia]，請提問。

Hi, David.

你好，大衛。

Okay, hi, David and Louis. Thanks for taking my question. Could you provide an update on your new factories in Shanghai and Hangzhou? If I'm not wrong, I remember you said both will be put in operation by Q3. And I also wonder if those factories are compatible for ET25 or other new products beyond. Thanks.

好的，David 和 Louis，你們好。感謝你們回答我的問題。能否提供一下你們在上海和杭州的新工廠的最新進展？如果我沒記錯的話，你們說過這兩家工廠都將在第三季投入營運。另外，我還想知道這兩家工廠是否能夠生產 ET25 或其他新產品。謝謝。

Thank you. So let me try to clarify a few things, right? So moving forward, we have two major factories. One is called Maxwell, we talk a lot about. It's a R&D and the manufacturing center in a sense that the main goal for Maxwell is to be able to fast iterate product development and manufacturing under one roof. So that's why the name is Maxwell. It's the name of the scientist who came up with the important equation.

謝謝。那我試著解釋一下幾個問題，好嗎？接下來，我們有兩個主要的工廠。一個叫麥克斯韋，我們常常提到它。從某種意義上說，它是一個研發和製造中心，麥克斯韋的主要目標是在同一屋簷下快速迭代產品開發和製造。這就是它被命名為麥克斯韋的原因。麥克斯韋是提出那個重要方程式的科學家的名字。

And then the other factory's name is Hertz. Hertz is like a cycle time, how many units you produce per second, that type of nature. You can see it's for mass productions only. So the Hertz factory, it's extremely highly automated, with 90% plus automation, and the cycle time used to be more than one minute, now Hertz is 45 seconds per LiDAR. And also because Hertz is built for high automation and in Hangzhou is a relatively cheaper place, and it's actually the labor cost and manufacturing cost is also lower.

另一家工廠的名字叫赫茲（Hertz）。赫茲（Hertz）這個名字類似於生產週期，指的是每秒生產多少個單位，諸如此類。可以看出，它只用於大規模生產。赫茲工廠的自動化程度極高，自動化率超過90%，生產週期以前超過一分鐘，現在赫茲生產每個雷射雷達只需45秒。此外，由於赫茲工廠是為高度自動化而建，而且杭州的物價相對較低，勞動成本和製造成本也更低。

So having said that, with the two functions, there's another important concept I want to make it clear. So building a factory or retrofitting a factory is one thing, populating a factory with all its full production capabilities is another. And those are completely different things. And sometimes people are confused by those. Building a factory like Maxwell, it's like buying a big land. So when you do that and you want to have a lot of space, you can buy a couple of acres of land, that technique can host hundreds of people to live if you build a hotel. But we're not stupid. What we do is actually we populate the production line based on the actual need projected down the road. We can build it very quickly. Within less than six months, we can populate those production lines. And then we definitely don't want to build more than we will be able to shift.

綜上所述，關於這兩個功能，我想澄清另一個重要的概念。新建工廠或改造工廠是一回事，讓工廠具備全部生產能力則是另一回事。這兩者截然不同，有時人們會混淆它們。建造像麥克斯韋這樣的工廠，就像購買一大片土地。如果你需要大量的空間，你可以購買幾英畝土地，如果建造飯店，這塊地可以容納數百人居住。但我們並不傻。我們實際上是根據未來預測的實際需求來配置生產線。我們可以非常迅速地完成建造。不到六個月，我們就能讓這些生產線投入使用。而且，我們絕對不會建造超過我們產能的工廠。

So that's why even for Hertz factory, each line today we have is about 300 to 500,000 units per line. And currently we only have one line because we already see if this will be, and together with Maxwell we will be able to meet our needs. It's like you have a big land, you buy it because the land itself is cheap, but then you start to build those houses as you grow on the people. But you don't want to build all those houses on the land yet because it only takes six months to do that. There is really no point of doing that.

所以這就是為什麼即使是赫茲工廠，我們目前的每條生產線年產量也只有30萬到50萬台。而我們目前只有一條生產線，因為我們已經預見到這種情況，並且與麥克斯韋公司合作，我們就能滿足需求。這就好比你買了一大塊地，你買下它是因為地價便宜，但隨著人口增長，你才開始蓋房子。你不會想現在就把所有房子都蓋完，因為那隻需要六個月。那樣做真的沒意義。

So that's why moving forward, we will only slowly expand Hertz and some part of the Maxwell to keep it very, very lean because we know with the visibility we have, it takes less than six months to do so.

所以，接下來，我們只會緩慢地擴張赫茲和麥克斯韋的部分業務，以保持其非常精簡，因為我們知道，以我們目前掌握的情況來看，這樣做只需要不到六個月的時間。

And even for each line, it isn't extremely expensive.

即使以每條線路計算，價格也不算特別昂貴。

Louis, do you want to comment on the cost down the line?

路易斯，你對後續成本有什麼看法嗎？

Yes, I think the, yes, I mean, David makes a very good point. The thing that is confusing the investors is, we're not building $200 million, $300 million plant where the CapEx will eat up our cash. We've already guided CapEx this year, and probably next year will be about $50 million. And that's all for mostly plant equipment. So it's about $10 million to $15 million per line for the AT fully 90% automated line, and much less for the anticipated lines for the autonomous mobility because that requires more manual labor. So even much less for that.

是的，我認為，我的意思是，David 的觀點非常中肯。讓投資者感到困惑的是，我們並沒有建造一座耗資 2 億或 3 億美元的工廠，資本支出不會耗盡我們的現金。我們已經預測了今年的資本支出，明年可能約為 5000 萬美元。而且這主要用於工廠設備。所以，對於一條自動化程度高達 90% 的 AT 生產線來說，每條生產線的成本大約在 1000 萬到 1500 萬美元之間，而對於預計的自動駕駛生產線，由於需要更多的人工，成本會更低。

So don't get confused that we're building these plants that cost hundreds of million dollars that are eating up our cash. That's not the case. So that's why even today, we have $457 million of cash at the end of the quarter. That's much higher than any of our competitors. So we're not spending a lot of money on CapEx other than for equipment and for the assembly line.

所以，別誤會，我們不是要花幾億美元蓋廠，把現金都消耗光了。事實並非如此。正因如此，即使在今天，我們季度末仍然擁有4.57億美元的現金。這遠高於任何競爭對手。所以，除了設備和組裝線之外，我們並沒有在資本支出上投入太多資金。

Okay?

好的？

I hope I answered. Oh, the other quick question is, do you think those lines can be used from one product to another? Well, that's a no. Every time you need to come to, for a different product, you need to redesign the full automation line to do that. So that's also another reason we have the new AT product build in the Hertz factory.

希望我的回答沒問題。哦，還有一個小問題，您認為這些生產線可以用於不同產品之間的轉換嗎？嗯，答案是否定的。每次需要生產不同產品時，都需要重新設計整條自動化生產線。這也是我們選擇在赫茲工廠生產新的AT產品的原因之一。

Okay, got you, thanks.

好的，明白了，謝謝。

Right, and then, sure, even though the production lines are redesigned, some of the equipment can be reused as we are ramping down on some of the legacy products. And then because of the automation process are shared in great similarity, the majority of those equipment can be used, but the line needs to be redesigned.

沒錯，即使生產線重新設計，隨著我們逐步減少一些老舊產品的生產，部分設備也可以繼續使用。而且由於自動化流程高度相似，大部分設備都可以繼續使用，但生產線本身需要重新設計。

Thank you. Your next question comes from [Jessie] from Bank of America Securities.

謝謝。下一個問題來自美國銀行證券的[Jessie]。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Hi David, hi Louis. Thank you for taking my question.

嗨，大衛，嗨，路易斯。謝謝你們回答我的問題。

First of all, I know that you mentioned ET25 hasn't received a firm order yet, so we cannot disclose on ESP and margin, but just wanted to understand from an OEM standpoint, so when they need to purchase an upgraded windshield to go with this ET25, how does this cost going in the future for them?

首先，我知道您提到ET25還沒有收到正式訂單，所以我們無法透露ESP和利潤率，但我只是想從OEM的角度了解一下，當他們需要購買升級版擋風玻璃來搭配這款ET25時，未來他們的成本會是多少？

So it's more expensive compared to the traditional solution or could be cheaper for them?

所以，與傳統解決方案相比，它更貴，還是對他們來說更便宜？

Thank you. So first of all, we are in different processes for a lot of the sourcing decisions. I think in the script we explained we were in an eight RFI and RFQ processes for five major global OEMs. So I wouldn't say that we don't have progress, it's that we don't have the final nomination we could announce. That's the status.

謝謝。首先，我們許多採購決策都處於不同的流程。我想我們在之前的稿子裡解釋過，我們針對五家主要的全球OEM廠商進行了八輪RFI和RFQ流程。所以，我並不是說我們沒有進展，而是說我們還沒有最終確定人選，所以暫時無法宣布。這就是目前的狀況。

And then your next question is about when they make decisions, like do you expect them to be cheaper or more expensive? So the biggest reason that this will be cheaper is that it's a product that's later, a few years later than AT series, right? AT series is we started to ship in 2022. ET is a few years later and then it will be able to leverage our new development on the semiconductor side.

接下來你的問題是關於他們何時做出決策，例如你預期價格會更低還是更高？這款產品價格更低的最大原因是它比AT系列晚幾年上市，對吧？ AT系列我們從2022年開始出貨，ET系列則晚幾年，屆時它將能夠利用我們在半導體方面的最新研發成果。

And as we move forward, even though the performance is going up, and we always try to have better integration on the semiconductor side to control the total bond cost.

隨著我們不斷前進，儘管性能不斷提高，但我們始終努力在半導體方面實現更好的集成，以控制總鍵合成本。

She's asking for the total cost for the solution under the windshield.

她想知道擋風玻璃下方解決方案的總費用。

Oh, sorry. So you mean like how much more money will be added on the glass side?

哦，不好意思。你是問玻璃部分要加多少錢嗎？

Something like that.

差不多是這樣。

Okay. Well, that part is specific to OEMs. I don't expect that to be a major part of it because for the special processes, the sample phase is expensive, but a large production phase is just one of the relatively simple process people do. It's no major, no significant price increase.

好的。嗯，這部分的內容是針對原始設備製造商（OEM）。我預期這不會是主要原因，因為對於特殊製程來說，樣品階段成本很高，但大規模生產階段只是人們通常會做的相對簡單的流程之一。這不會導致價格大幅上漲。

Jessie, it just looks so much better. So, aesthetically, it is going to be a big factor, right? As OEMs make decisions.

傑西，它看起來好多了。所以，從美學角度來看，這將是一個重要因素，對吧？因為這是汽車製造商在做決策時需要考慮的因素。

And of course, OEMs always want things that are better, more beautiful, and cheaper, and that's reasonable.

當然，OEM廠商總是想要更好、更漂亮、更便宜的產品，這很合理。

Yes, totally makes sense. So another question would be, another peer also states that the software that goes with the LiDAR would be the key to win the long-term process. So what's our view on this? Thank you.

是的，完全有道理。那麼我的另一個問題是，另一位同行也指出，與光達配對的軟體將是贏得長期競爭的關鍵。我們對此有何看法？謝謝。

I agree. I think today a lot of the customers are already seeing that they may or may not be the most experienced user for the LiDAR. That's why we provide the reference software system to the customer. Essentially, we know how to use them. We already have a package that will help them jumpstart. We don't fully take over their development because most of the customers, they prefer still to own a process, but we provide the reference software to help them from anything from perception to tracing the target to calibration and to some of the algorithms in calibrating and essentially helping them to get things up and running.

我同意。我認為現在很多客戶都意識到，他們可能並非光達方面最有經驗的使用者。因此，我們會為客戶提供參考軟體系統。本質上，我們知道如何使用這些軟體。我們已經有一個軟體包可以幫助他們快速上手。我們不會完全接手他們的開發工作，因為大多數客戶仍然希望擁有自己的開發流程，但我們提供的參考軟體可以幫助他們完成從感知、目標追蹤到校準以及校準演算法等各個環節，幫助他們快速啟動並運行系統。

And that part is very important because without that, it's a piece of dumb hardware that no one can take advantage of.

而這部分非常重要，因為如果沒有它，它就只是一塊毫無用處的硬件，任何人都無法利用它。

Does that answer your question?

這樣回答了你的問題嗎？

Thank you. Unfortunately, that does conclude our time for questions today. I'd now like to turn the call back over to the Company for any closing remarks.

謝謝。很遺憾，今天的提問環節到此結束。現在我想把電話轉回給公司，請他們作總結發言。

Thank you once again for joining us today. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our IR team. This concludes today's call and we look forward to speaking to you again next quarter.

再次感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議。如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時聯絡我們的投資者關係團隊。今天的電話會議到此結束，我們期待下個季度再次與您交流。

Thank you and goodbye.

謝謝，再見。