Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (ERIC) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of Ericsson's first quarter 2025 results. With me here in the studio today are Börje Ekholm, our President and CEO; and Lars Sandstrom, our Chief Financial Officer.

大家好，歡迎參加愛立信2025年第一季業績發表會。今天和我一起來到攝影棚的還有我們的總裁兼執行長 Börje Ekholm；以及我們的財務長 Lars Sandstrom。

As usual, we'll have a short presentation followed by Q&A. And in order to ask a question, you'll need to join the conference by phone. Details can be found in today's earnings release and on the Investor Relations website.

像往常一樣，我們將進行簡短的演講，然後進行問答。為了提出問題，您需要透過電話加入會議。詳細資訊請參閱今天的收益報告和投資者關係網站。

Please be advised that today's call is being recorded and that today's presentation may include forward-looking statements. These statements are based on our current expectations and certain planning assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties.

請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音，今天的演示可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些聲明是基於我們目前的預期和某些規劃假設，存在風險和不確定性。

The actual results may differ materially due to factors mentioned in today's press release and discussed in this conference call. We encourage you to read about these risks and uncertainties in our earnings report as well as in our annual report. I'll hand the call now over to Börje and to Lars for their introductory comments.

由於今天的新聞稿中提到以及本次電話會議中討論的因素，實際結果可能存在重大差異。我們鼓勵您閱讀我們的收益報告和年度報告中有關這些風險和不確定性的信息。我現在將電話交給 Börje 和 Lars，請他們發表介紹評論。

Great. Thanks, Daniel, and good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. So we executed well in Q1 despite a challenging and fast-changing macro backdrop. Organic sales were stable with strong growth in market area Americas. Gross margin came in at 48.5%, and we delivered an EBITA margin of 12.6%. The improvement that we saw was broad-based across all segments and market areas, and it's really thanks to strong execution of our plans.

偉大的。謝謝，丹尼爾，大家早安，謝謝您今天加入我們。因此，儘管宏觀背景充滿挑戰且瞬息萬變，我們在第一季仍然表現良好。有機銷售額穩定，美洲市場區域成長強勁。毛利率達 48.5%，EBITA 利潤率為 12.6%。我們看到的改善是所有細分市場和市場領域廣泛的，這確實要歸功於我們計劃的強大執行。

Cloud Software and Services can call out a bit because it also had the first positive first quarter ever. We also continued to make good progress against our strategic priorities in the quarter by strengthening our leadership in mobile networks and announcing new partnerships that will accelerate the development of programmable networks with differentiated connectivity and open API architectures.

雲端軟體和服務值得關注，因為它也迎來了有史以來第一個積極的第一季。本季度，我們也繼續在策略重點方面取得良好進展，加強了我們在行動網路領域的領導地位，並宣布了新的合作夥伴關係，這將加速具有差異化連接和開放 API 架構的可編程網路的發展。

In Mobile Networks, we expanded our leading portfolio, and we're on track to offer a portfolio of 130 radios this year that all support programmable networks. We also announced the first programmable network in Asia Pacific with Telstra in Australia. In Enterprise, we're seeing improved commercial traction as customers are moving from proof of concept into commercial deployment. One example here is Jaguar Land Rover that's implementing a private 5G network to fully digitalize their manufacturing, again, benefiting from the flexibility of a 5G network.

在行動網路領域，我們擴大了領先的產品組合，今年我們將推出 130 種支援可編程網路的無線電產品組合。我們也與澳洲 Telstra 合作宣布推出亞太地區首個可程式網路。在企業領域，隨著客戶從概念驗證轉向商業部署，我們看到商業吸引力正在增強。其中一個例子是捷豹路虎，它正在實施私人 5G 網絡，以實現其製造的完全數位化，同樣受益於 5G 網路的靈活性。

Another is in Network APIs, where the top three US operators have announced they'll launch a fraud detection API this year in partnership with Aduna. As you may recall, Aduna is the joint venture we announced last year to aggregate and sell network APIs.

另一個是網路 API，美國三大營運商已宣布今年將與 Aduna 合作推出詐欺偵測 API。您可能還記得，Aduna 是我們去年宣布成立的合資企業，旨在聚合和銷售網路 API。

So we now continue to see the network API ecosystem scaling up with additional partners joining Aduna and the first early revenues coming in. So we're seeing good momentum on our strategy built on programmable networks offering differentiated services, which will allow new ways for our operator customers to generate new revenue sources on their network investments.

因此，我們現在繼續看到網路 API 生態系統不斷擴大，越來越多的合作夥伴加入 Aduna，並帶來第一批早期收入。因此，我們看到基於提供差異化服務的可編程網路的策略發展勢頭良好，這將為我們的營運商客戶提供新的方式，透過網路投資創造新的收入來源。

Of course, the current macroeconomic turmoil and tariffs are impacting our industry, and we will not be immune. We've taken actions over the many years to actually build resilience into our supply chain, including how and where we develop and manufacture our products. So our focus remains on controlling what we actually can control, including, of course, pricing and spending. And the actions we've taken position Ericsson well to succeed across varying market conditions.

當然，當前的宏觀經濟動盪和關稅正在影響我們的產業，我們也無法倖免。多年來，我們一直採取行動，實際增強我們供應鏈的彈性，包括我們如何以及在何處開發和製造我們的產品。因此，我們的重點仍然是控制我們實際上可以控制的事情，當然包括定價和支出。我們採取的行動使愛立信能夠在不同的市場條件下取得成功。

Let me now comment further on the market development we saw in Q1. As you know, in February, we announced the consolidation of our regional structure. So this is the first quarter with two new market areas, market area Americas and market area Europe, Middle East, and Africa.

現在讓我進一步評論一下我們在第一季看到的市場發展。如您所知，我們在二月宣布了區域結構的整合。這是第一季有兩個新的市場區域，分別是美洲市場區域和歐洲、中東和非洲市場區域。

In market area Americas, sales increased by 20% year-over-year with good growth in North America, partly offset by lower sales in Latin America, where we, of course, face intense competition from the Chinese vendors. Networks grew strongly in North America, benefiting from our previous contract wins, but I would like to single out it's also from the accelerated network investments by the other customers.

在美洲市場，銷售額年增 20%，其中北美成長良好，但拉丁美洲銷售額下降部分抵消了這一成長，當然，我們面臨來自中國供應商的激烈競爭。由於我們之前贏得的合同，北美網路成長強勁，但我想特別指出的是，這也是其他客戶加速網路投資的結果。

And it's worthwhile to remember that historically, North America is a frontrunner in the adoption of new technology and, thereby, often a leading indicator for other markets. Sales in Europe, Middle East and Africa declined by 7% year-over-year. And there, you have, of course, that Europe was stable, and that was supported by market share gains and network modernization.

值得記住的是，從歷史上看，北美在採用新技術方面處於領先地位，因此往往是其他市場的領先指標。歐洲、中東和非洲的銷售額較去年同期下降了7%。當然，歐洲是穩定的，這得益於市場份額的成長和網路現代化。

In Southeast Asia, Oceania and India, sales decreased by 17% year-over-year as a result of more normalized operator investment levels in India. And here, you remember, we had a relatively high level in Q1 of last year. Lastly, sales in Northeast Asia slowed. This was due to reduced customer investments in some 5G front-runner markets.

在東南亞、大洋洲和印度，由於印度營運商投資水準更加正常化，銷售額較去年同期下降了17%。您記得，去年第一季我們的水準相對較高。最後，東北亞地區的銷售放緩。這是由於一些 5G 領先市場的客戶投資減少。

With that, let me hand over to Lars to go through the financials in detail.

說完這些，讓我把時間交給拉爾斯來詳細解說財務狀況。

All right. Let me start by giving you some additional points on the group before discussing the segments more in detail. Net sales in Q1 amounted to SEK55 billion, and organic sales were stable year-on-year. Reported sales increased 3%, including a currency benefit of SEK1.8 billion. North America growth was strong for the fourth quarter in a row and sales in Europe were stable.

好的。在更詳細地討論各個部分之前，讓我先向您介紹一些有關該組的其他要點。第一季淨銷售額達550億瑞典克朗，有機銷售額較去年同期穩定。報告銷售額成長了 3%，其中包括 18 億瑞典克朗的貨幣收益。北美連續第四個季度成長強勁，歐洲銷售保持穩定。

Sales in the other markets declined, particularly in India, which had a relatively strong Q1 2024 and in the Middle East and Africa. IPR revenues slightly increased. The run rate exiting Q1 is approximately SEK13 billion. Adjusted gross margin was 48.5% in Q1, an increase from 42.7% last year. Margin improved, benefiting from product and market mix as well as cost reduction actions.

其他市場的銷售額有所下降，尤其是印度（2024 年第一季銷售額相對強勁），以及中東和非洲。知識產權收入略有增長。第一季的運作率約為 130 億瑞典克朗。第一季調整後毛利率為48.5%，高於去年的42.7%。利潤率提高，受益於產品和市場組合以及成本削減措施。

Operating expenses were SEK20.5 billion, flat compared to the prior year. A negative currency impact of SEK0.5 billion was offset by lower amortization of intangible assets. Adjusted EBITA increased by SEK1.8 billion to SEK6.9 billion. In Q1 2024, we had a onetime gain of SEK1.9 billion. This quarter, EBITA was supported by increased gross income and the EBITA margin was 12.6%.

營業費用為205億瑞典克朗，與前一年持平。5億瑞典克朗的負面貨幣影響被無形資產攤銷額的降低所抵銷。調整後的 EBITA 增加了 18 億瑞典克朗，達到 69 億瑞典克朗。2024 年第一季度，我們獲得了 19 億瑞典克朗的一次性收益。本季度，EBITA 受到總營收成長的支持，EBITA 利潤率為 12.6%。

We also had a currency benefit of SEK0.4 billion. Cash flow was SEK2.7 billion, a slight decline compared to last year on the back of an exceptionally strong Q4 with early payments.

我們也獲得了4億瑞典克朗的貨幣收益。現金流為 27 億瑞典克朗，由於第四季度業績異常強勁且提前付款，與去年相比略有下降。

Let's move on to the financial trends. While the market conditions have clearly been challenging, we have seen a stabilization of sales, rolling 12-month sales bottomed in Q3 2024. The gross margin trend was driven by product and market mix, supply chain efficiency and cost actions. IPR growth also have contributed. And we again saw a favorable EBITA development, although partly offset by lower sales and somewhat higher operating expenses.

讓我們繼續討論金融趨勢。儘管市場環境顯然充滿挑戰，但我們看到銷售趨於穩定，連續 12 個月的銷售額在 2024 年第三季觸底。毛利率趨勢受產品和市場組合、供應鏈效率和成本行動所驅動。知識產權的成長也做出了貢獻。我們再次看到了良好的 EBITA 發展，儘管部分被較低的銷售額和略高的營運費用所抵消。

Let's move to the segments then. In Networks, sales increased by 6% year-on-year to SEK35.6 billion, including a currency benefit of SEK1.1 billion. So organic sales increased by 3-percentage-points. In sales in the market area, Americas, sales grew from -- grew 38%. And here, we benefit from contract wins and accelerated network investments in North America, which reflected in part some tariff uncertainty.

那麼就讓我們進入片段吧。網路業務的銷售額年增 6%，達到 356 億瑞典克朗，其中包括 11 億瑞典克朗的貨幣收益。因此有機銷售額增加了 3 個百分點。在美洲市場區域的銷售額成長了 38%。在這裡，我們受益於北美的合約勝利和加速的網路投資，這在一定程度上反映了一些關稅的不確定性。

Other market areas declined, with the largest decline in India, where investments have now normalized. Networks adjusted gross margin was 51%, benefiting from product and market mix as well as the cost reduction actions in the past years coming through.

其他市場區域均出現下滑，其中印度的跌幅最大，但該國的投資目前已恢復正常。網路調整後的毛利率為51%，受益於產品和市場組合以及過去幾年實施的成本削減措施。

Networks adjusted EBITA was SEK7.5 billion, and the EBITA margin increased significantly year-on-year to 21%. The EBITA improvement was driven by improved gross income, partly offset by increased R&D expenses. In segment Cloud Software & Services, sales were stable, with growth in core networks and software sales, offset by lower sales in Managed Services.

網路調整後EBITA為75億瑞典克朗，EBITA利潤率較去年同期大幅提升至21%。EBITA 的成長得益於總收入的增加，但研發費用的增加部分抵消了這一增長。在雲端軟體和服務領域，銷售額保持穩定，核心網路和軟體銷售額有所成長，但託管服務銷售額下降。

Organic sales decreased 3%. Sales growth in market area, Southeast Asia, Oceania, and India was offset by decline in sales elsewhere. Adjusted gross margin increased year-on-year to 39.9%, benefiting from a higher software share, commercial discipline, and delivery performance. Improvement in gross margin and lower operating expenses resulted in a positive Q1 EBITA.

有機銷售額下降3%。東南亞、大洋洲和印度市場地區的銷售額成長被其他地區銷售額的下降所抵消。調整後毛利率年增至39.9%，受益於軟體份額的提高、商業紀律的加強以及交付績效的提高。毛利率的提高和營運費用的降低使得第一季的息稅折舊攤銷前利潤 (EBITA) 為正。

In Enterprise, sales decreased 1% and organic sales were down 7%. Here, Global Communications platform declined by 9%, impacted by the decision to focus on more profitable market segments and to reduce activities in some countries. And here, we expect a stabilization during 2025.

Enterprise 的銷售額下降了 1%，有機銷售額下降了 7%。其中，全球通訊平台下降了 9%，原因是決定專注於利潤更高的細分市場並減少在某些國家的活動。我們預計 2025 年將會趨於穩定。

Enterprise Wireless Solutions grew by 20%, driven by higher subscriber and product sales in Enterprise Networking. Gross income increased by SEK0.5 billion and was up year-on-year across all the business in the segment. Global Communications platform increased despite the sales decline. Adjusted EBITA was minus SEK0.5 billion.

企業無線解決方案成長了 20%，這得益於企業網路領域用戶和產品銷售額的成長。總收入增加了 5 億瑞典克朗，該部門所有業務的總收入同比增長。儘管銷售額下降，但全球通訊平台仍實現成長。調整後 EBITA 為負 5 億瑞典克朗。

Then turning to free cash flow, which was SEK2.7 billion before M&A in the quarter. The step down from Q4 reflected an unusual seasonality of lower Q1 share of profit and annual cash bonus payments as well as the unusually high level of early payments in Q4.

然後轉向自由現金流，本季併購前為 27 億瑞典克朗。與第四季度相比的下降反映了第一季利潤份額和年度現金獎金支付減少這一異常季節性，以及第四季度提前支付的水平異常高。

The cash flow was the result of the improved results and was partly offset by somewhat increased operating working capital, as well as the seasonal payments of incentives and the inflow from IPR payments received from our licensees. Net cash remained at similar levels to last quarter, impacted by the revaluation exchange or exchange rates.

現金流是業績改善的結果，但部分被略微增加的營運資本、季節性獎勵支付和從我們的許可證持有者收到的知識產權付款流入所抵消。受重估匯率或匯率的影響，淨現金與上一季維持相似水準。

Next, I will cover the outlook. The global turmoil we have seen in Q1, and that has continued in recent weeks is already having significant impacts, including currency rates and global trade flows. This can, of course, affect customer behaviors and investment decisions over time. But so far, we have seen limited impacts. So there is increased uncertainty of our forecast in a number of different areas, and the future is quite difficult to predict.

接下來，我將介紹前景。我們在第一季看到的以及最近幾週持續的全球動盪已經產生了重大影響，包括貨幣匯率和全球貿易流量。當然，隨著時間的推移，這會影響客戶行為和投資決策。但到目前為止，我們看到的影響有限。因此，我們對許多不同領域的預測的不確定性增加了，未來很難預測。

With that in mind, turning first to sales. We expect both networks and cloud software and services to be broadly similar to average three-year seasonality in Q2. This includes the partial resolution of the Lenovo patent litigation and assumes current exchange rates. The current volatility of currencies makes predictions more difficult. As an example, if the rates at the end of March had been used for Q1, reported net sales would have been approximately 4% lower.

考慮到這一點，首先談談銷售。我們預計第二季度網路和雲端軟體及服務的季節性與三年平均值大致相似。這包括聯想專利訴訟的部分解決，並假設當前匯率。當前貨幣的波動使得預測更加困難。例如，如果第一季採用 3 月底的利率，報告的淨銷售額將下降約 4%。

Next, Networks gross margin. Here, prediction is also more difficult, tariffs could, of course, change at any time and the broader macroeconomic environment and investment climate remains very uncertain. So difficult to judge. But from what we see today, we expect network gross margin to be in the range of 48% to 50% for Q2. This includes the positive benefit from retroactive IPR as well as a negative 1-percentage-point estimated impact from margins from tariffs.

接下來是網路毛利率。在這裡，預測也更加困難，關稅當然可能隨時改變，更廣泛的宏觀經濟環境和投資環境仍然非常不確定。很難判斷。但從我們今天看到的情況來看，我們預計第二季網路毛利率將在 48% 至 50% 之間。這包括追溯智慧財產權帶來的正面效益，以及關稅利潤率預計帶來的 1 個百分點的負面衝擊。

We still benefit from some earlier tariff’s mitigation actions in Q2 and if current tariff proposals stay the same, the Q2 impact could be a little bit higher. With that, I hand back to you, Börje.

我們仍然受益於第二季早些時候採取的一些關稅減免措施，如果目前的關稅提案保持不變，第二季的影響可能會更高一些。說完這些，我就把麥克風交還給你了，Börje。

Thanks, Lars. So looking ahead, we remain confident of our strong competitive position in Mobile Networks and expect Enterprise to stabilize during the remainder of 2025. There is a growing customer interest in our programmable networks and many service providers need to invest in their networks to keep them competitive at current data traffic levels.

謝謝，拉爾斯。因此展望未來，我們仍然對自己在行動網路領域的強大競爭地位充滿信心，並預期企業業務將在 2025 年剩餘時間內保持穩定。客戶對我們的可程式網路的興趣日益濃厚，許多服務供應商需要對其網路進行投資，以在當前資料流量水準下保持競爭力。

North America, as I said before, is often a front-runner market. So the recovery in investments gives cause for optimism for our markets. This is, of course, encouraging. But ultimately, the exact timing of investments is in the hands of our customers. Of course, the external environment is also adding uncertainty, but we're prepared with the actions we've taken over the past few years. We continue to be laser focused on controlling what we can control and respond with actions that position Ericsson to succeed across varying market conditions.

正如我之前所說，北美通常是一個領先的市場。因此，投資的復甦為我們的市場帶來了樂觀的理由。這當然是令人鼓舞的。但最終，投資的具體時機掌握在我們的客戶手中。當然，外在環境也增加了不確定性，但我們已經做好了準備，過去幾年我們已經採取了行動。我們將繼續集中精力控制我們能夠控制的事情，並採取行動，使愛立信能夠在不同的市場條件下取得成功。

This includes pricing reflecting our leadership position, working on our cost base, as you have seen, we've done over the past 1.5 years, and how we have managed working capital, which we also have done quite successfully over the past few years, while at the same time, maintain focus on the long-term strategy execution. And this way, we ensure Ericsson can manage short-term market swings, but also that we're well positioned for the long term.

這包括反映我們領導地位的定價、基於成本的基礎工作（正如您所見，我們在過去一年半中已經這樣做了）以及我們如何管理營運資金（我們在過去幾年中也做得相當成功），同時，我們繼續關注長期戰略的執行。這樣，我們不僅確保愛立信能夠應對短期市場波動，而且能夠為長期發展做好準備。

So in closing, our strategy is working. Our momentum is gaining traction, high-performing programmable networks that enable differentiated connectivity or the future. This will allow our customers to increase monetization of network investments and actually create new growth areas for us.

總而言之，我們的策略正在發揮作用。我們的勢頭正在增強，高性能可編程網路可實現差異化連接或未來。這將使我們的客戶能夠提高網路投資的貨幣化，並為我們創造新的成長領域。

So before going into Q&A, I would like to thank all my colleagues for their really hard work in making these results possible. It's truly an outstanding team we have here at Ericsson. With that, let's open up for Q&A, Daniel.

因此，在進入問答環節之前，我想感謝所有同事為這些成果所做的辛勤工作。愛立信確實是一支出色的團隊。那麼，讓我們開始問答環節，丹尼爾。

Thanks, Börje. So we'll now move to the Q&A part of the call. (Event Instructions) Okay. Operator, we're ready to take the first question, please.

謝謝，Börje。因此我們現在進入電話會議的問答部分。（活動說明）好的。接線員，我們準備好回答第一個問題了。

Francois Bouvignies, UBS.

瑞銀集團的 Francois Bouvignies。

So my question would be on the topic of tariff. So you mentioned this uncertainty and this 1-percentage-point impact on tariff. Could you elaborate how the tariffs are impacting your business? This 100 basis points, a bit more details as to the building blocks of this impact. And importantly, with the tariff in mind, do you see any inventory build happening as we speak ahead of this tariff, i.e., could we expect a more negative impact in the second half of the year? That would be my question.

我的問題是關於關稅的。所以你提到了這種不確定性以及對關稅的 1 個百分點的影響。您能詳細說明一下關稅對您的業務有何影響嗎？這 100 個基點，對於此影響的構成要素有更詳細的說明。重要的是，考慮到關稅，在我們談論這一關稅之前，您是否認為會出現庫存增加的情況，即我們是否可以預期下半年會出現更負面影響？這就是我的問題。

If you look at the building blocks, I think it's very much connected to the material flow that we have, both direct components, but also site material, et cetera, that we have in the complete delivery to our customers. And as you know, we have production today well diversified in different parts with production in North America, South America, Europe, Asia, et cetera. So that is the resilience we have built up over the time here. So that is why some parts of this impact is coming on these flows that we see based on the current decisions then that we had last Friday.

如果你看一下建造模組，我認為它與我們擁有的材料流密切相關，包括直接組件，還有現場材料等等，這些都是我們在向客戶完整交付過程中所擁有的。如您所知，如今我們的生產已多元化，遍及北美、南美、歐洲、亞洲等不同地區。這就是我們在這裡多年來建立起來的韌性。因此，根據我們上週五做出的當前決定，我們看到部分影響會對這些流量產生影響。

And I think when it comes to your question there on inventory buildup, we had some inventory buildup already here in Q1 in our own sites to make sure that we have material in place and could handle a bit of the situation. But going forward, we don't see big impact from that also from a customer perspective. We don't expect too big impacts from this part.

我認為，當涉及到您關於庫存積累的問題時，我們在第一季已經在我們自己的站點積累了一些庫存，以確保我們有足夠的材料並可以處理一些情況。但展望未來，從客戶的角度來看，我們也不會看到太大的影響。我們預計這部分不會產生太大的影響。

I would only say one thing that that's part of Lars' answer is the ecosystem of component suppliers, right? That's where we actually invested quite a lot over the years to broaden that, but that's probably where we need to be a bit more active also to build, call it, the Western ecosystem in that -- in those components.

我只想說，這是 Lars 答案的一部分，即零件供應商的生態系統，對嗎？多年來，我們實際上在這方面投入了大量資金來拓展這一領域，但也許我們需要更加積極地建立所謂的西方生態系統——在這些組成部分中。

Andreas Joelsson, Carnegie.

安德烈亞斯·喬爾森，卡內基。

And maybe a little bit broader question. You mentioned that there is a need for investing in both programmable networks and in the sort of capacity. But when you discuss this with customers, how do they balance that with all the uncertainty that we have all around the world. And that's not only -- not just looking for base stations, but also for 5G stand-alone, for instance, and the APIs, how do you see that progressing throughout the year, not just for the next quarter?

也許這是一個更廣泛的問題。您提到需要對可程式網路和容量進行投資。但是當你與客戶討論這個問題時，他們如何平衡這個問題與我們在世界各地面臨的所有不確定性。這不僅僅是——不僅僅是尋找基地台，還包括 5G 獨立設備以及 API，您認為它在今年（而不僅僅是下個季度）會如何發展？

That's a good question, Andreas. The uncertainty, I think, this is more of a general question where investment climates tend to benefit from certainty, and we're almost in the opposite end of that spectrum. So you have kind of concerns around that. What I would say, though, is historically, when you look at uncertain periods, the data traffic actually continues to grow. So I think the need for the service providers to make sure that they have cost-effective high-performance networks are going to continue to increase.

這是個好問題，安德烈亞斯。我認為，不確定性是一個普遍性問題，投資環境往往受益於確定性，而我們幾乎處於這個範圍的另一端。所以你對此有點擔心。不過，我想說的是，從歷史上看，當你觀察不確定的時期時，數據流量實際上會持續成長。因此我認為服務提供者對確保擁有具有成本效益的高效能網路的需求將會持續增加。

I have no doubt about that because that's what we've seen in these periods before. What we're seeing is actually great progress on the network APIs. Of course, it's driven by the early markets like we said, the launch of fraud APIs that we're doing jointly with three operators in the US is actually critical in shaping this ecosystem. So I do believe we're -- here it's so early in the development that actually the general uncertainty doesn't impact so much, call it that because that we shouldn't really say it's driven by the general economy.

我對此毫不懷疑，因為這是我們以前在那些時期所見過的。我們實際上看到的是網路 API 的巨大進步。當然，就像我們說的，這是由早期市場推動的，我們與美國三家運營商聯合推出的詐欺 API 實際上對於塑造這個生態系統至關重要。所以我確實相信我們——現在還處於發展的早期階段，實際上普遍的不確定性並沒有帶來太大的影響，之所以這樣稱呼它，是因為我們不應該說它是由整體經濟驅動的。

So I think there, it concerns me less. Where we see on stand-alone, that's the major shift the industry have to do. I think we're only at one in four networks or so, maybe one in three, maybe it's one in five, but it's that range converted into 5G stand-alone. And ultimately, to get the capabilities of 5G, we need to convert solid mid-band build-out combined with going to 5G stand-alone.

所以我認為，這對我來說沒那麼重要。我們看到，這是獨立產業必須做出的重大轉變。我認為我們只占到四分之一左右的網絡，也許是三分之一，也許是五分之一，但這個範圍已經轉換成了 5G 獨立網絡。最終，為了獲得 5G 的功能，我們需要將穩固的中頻段建設與 5G 獨立結合。

And if you look, for example, in Europe, we're only at less than half of sites prepared for mid-band and very few operators having launched really stand-alone services. We're starting to see some big operators having launched standalone. For example, T-Mobile in the US have, but we see other operators as well, Jio, Singtel, et cetera. So I do think that is a next step because your ability as an operator to offer new services increases with the stand-alone.

例如，如果你看看歐洲，你會發現只有不到一半的站點為中頻段做好了準備，而且很少有業者推出真正獨立的服務。我們開始看到一些大型業者已經推出了獨立產品。例如，美國的 T-Mobile 有，但我們也看到其他營運商，如 Jio、Singtel 等等。所以我確實認為這是下一步，因為作為營運商，提供新服務的能力會隨著獨立性的提高而增強。

But I would also say the performance of the network increases again, so benefiting your customer experience at the end of the day. So I think we can speculate. I can't tell you that this is the way it's going to pan out. But I think there are a bit puts -- or gives and takes in this. So I'm rather comfortable that the world is going to migrate towards more build-out, more capacity and more SA as we move along in the year.

但我還要說的是，網路效能再次提高，最終將有利於您的客戶體驗。所以我認為我們可以推測。我無法告訴你事情將會以這樣的方式發展。但我認為這裡存在一些讓步或妥協。因此，我相當確信，隨著時間的推移，世界將走向更多的建設、更多的容量和更多的 SA。

Andrew Gardiner, Citi.

花旗銀行的安德魯‧加德納 (Andrew Gardiner)。

So I had another one on the tariff side of things if I could. And in particular, the reference you make to the slight pull forward in demand for 1Q. I'm just wondering about -- or if you can help me with some of the moving pieces as we look to second quarter. You've had pull forward to an extent in North America in the first quarter.

因此，如果可以的話，我還想就關稅方面再提一個問題。特別是您提到的第一季需求略有提早。我只是想知道——或者您是否能幫助我了解一些我們展望第二季度時的一些動態。第一季度，北美市場已經取得了一定程度的領先。

Lars, you also highlighted the FX headwind that would be present in the second quarter. On my math, based on your rule of (technical difficulty) thumb, that's already sort (technical difficulty) of 4%-ish headwind quarter-on-quarter.

拉爾斯，您也強調了第二季將出現的外匯逆風。根據我的計算，基於你的經驗法則（技術難度），這已經是季度環比 4% 左右的逆風（技術難度）。

Yet despite those headwinds of pull forward and FX, you're guiding to normal seasonality. So that's implying much stronger organic growth quarter-on-quarter than we would normally see. Where is that coming from? From a regional perspective, is it still strength in North America? Are you starting to see things bottoming elsewhere and you're expecting other regions to grow above seasonally? Just some of those moving parts would be very helpful.

然而，儘管面臨前瞻和外匯的不利因素，您仍將引導正常的季節性。這意味著季度間的有機成長將比我們通常看到的要強勁得多。這是從哪裡來的？從區域角度來看，它在北美仍然實力雄厚嗎？您是否開始看到其他地方的情況正在觸底，並且您預計其他地區的成長將高於季節性？其中一些活動部件將會非常有用。

I think when it comes to pool-ins, I think it's more -- the correct term is rather the product mix impact it had. So it's not so much a question about pool-in. It's more a question that the product mix was a bit different where we had a bit more of, call it, more high-margin product mix supporting in Q1. So that's on that question. And when it comes to -- as you said, on the Q2, yes, on the FX side there, and that implies a slight growth and we also have a bit of IPR, of course, in the retroactive part.

我認為，當談到池化時，我認為更多的是——正確的術語是它對產品組合的影響。因此，這並不是一個有關池化的問題。問題更多的是產品組合有點不同，我們在第一季有更多所謂的高利潤產品組合支持。這就是那個問題。正如您所說，在第二季度，是的，在外匯方面，這意味著略有增長，當然，在追溯部分，我們也有一些智慧財產權。

And when it comes to the markets there, we have still -- as you might remember, during last year, we saw the impact from ramping up. India, North Americas really is starting to come into the numbers in Q2 and then we're more fully into the numbers for the second half of last year.

至於那裡的市場，我們仍然——您可能還記得，去年，我們看到了擴張帶來的影響。印度、北美確實在第二季開始進入數據成長階段，然後我們更全面地了解了去年下半年的數據。

So that is still an impact that we can see coming into Q2 and also India coming down to more normalized levels in Q2. So that is a little bit the details I can give to you on that. And it's based on what we see today coming into Q2 with the product and market mix. That is what our estimate is based on.

因此，我們仍然可以看到這種影響將在第二季度出現，而且印度在第二季度的水平也將恢復到更正常的水平。這就是我可以向您提供的有關該問題的一些細節。這是基於我們今天看到的第二季產品和市場組合的情況。這就是我們的估計依據。

Okay. And just a quick follow-up. I mean how should we then think of that into the second half of the year? I mean you flagged now a stable market as opposed to prior expectations of growth based on the industry analyst forecast and with above seasonal organic trends in the first part of the year, does that not leave you at risk in the second half? What's your visibility into the customer demand at that point?

好的。這只是一次快速的跟進。我的意思是我們應該如何考慮下半年的情況？我的意思是，您現在標記了一個穩定的市場，而不是根據行業分析師的預測而做出的成長預期，並且今年上半年的季節性有機趨勢高於預期，這是否會讓您在下半年面臨風險？您對當時的客戶需求有何了解？

When it comes to outlook, as you know, we guide on the next quarter. And when it comes to full year, we don't guide on that. What I can say is that if you look at the full year and the flat RAN market, we maintain that view that we had also coming out of Q4. So that is a slight growth if you exclude China then in the RAN market and coming down from the high growth rates that we had during the second half last year coming down to more, call it, normalized levels.

談到展望，如您所知，我們會對下一季做出指導。對於全年而言，我們不會對此做出指導。我可以說的是，如果你看一下全年和平板 RAN 市場，我們會維持我們在第四季時所持有的觀點。因此，如果不考慮中國，那麼 RAN 市場的成長速度會略有下降，並且會從去年下半年的高成長率回落到更正常的水平。

And then there is potential for growth. We see investment needs in markets like India and other parts of Asia. But then at the end of the day, it's the customer who decide when to invest, of course, but that could be some of the moving parts for the second half.

而且還有成長潛力。我們看到印度和亞洲其他地區等市場有投資需求。但最終，當然是客戶決定何時投資，但這可能是下半年的一些變動因素。

Joachim Gunell, DNB.

Joachim Gunell，DNB。

So very impressive gross margins here anyway we look at it. And on the strength in North America, coming just back to what we just discussed, but can you help us dissect how much of the Q1 strength is a factor of prebuy effects with, say, strong hardware sales and there could be actually some potentially delayed services rollout here since the services percentage of Networks revenue actually declined quarter-over-quarter.

無論如何，這裡的毛利率都非常可觀。關於北美市場的強勁表現，回到我們剛才討論的內容，您能否幫助我們分析一下，第一季度的強勁表現有多少是預購效應的影響因素，比如強勁的硬體銷售，並且實際上可能會有一些服務推出延遲，因為服務佔網絡收入的百分比實際上環比下降。

So will we see a change in the product mix at, for instance, AT&T, where you will become more service heavy in H2 2025 and that could actually be a drag on gross margins?

那麼，我們是否會看到產品組合發生變化，例如 AT&T 將在 2025 年下半年更加重視服務，而這實際上可能會拖累毛利率？

We don't comment on specific customers, as you know. But as we have talked about before is that we will see a gradual shift when it comes to the product mix for the second half with the rollout programs that we see today in the margin. But I think it's also worth mentioning that in Q1, yes, North America is a high proportion of the total sales that helps the margin. But what is really driving the underlying margin improvement is, it is broad-based. We see margin improvements in all market areas and all segments here in the quarter.

如您所知，我們不對特定客戶發表評論。但正如我們之前談到的，隨著我們今天在利潤中看到的推出計劃，我們將看到下半年產品組合的逐步轉變。但我認為還值得一提的是，在第一季度，北美佔總銷售額的很大比例，有助於提高利潤率。但真正推動基礎利潤率提高的是其廣泛的基礎。我們看到本季所有市場領域和所有細分市場的利潤率都有所提高。

So that is supporting and that is coming from the cost activities and productivity activities we have done for quite some years now and supporting the margin. So that is kind of the building blocks. I don't know if you want to add more.

所以這是支持性的，這是來自於我們多​​年來所做的成本活動和生產力活動，並支持利潤率。這就是基礎構件。我不知道您是否想添加更多內容。

No, I think that you said it, it's the broad-based recovery or improvement that is actually what matters. And I would say the -- when you look at the globe over the past few years, we've actually taken a lot of effort to try to make us less sensitive to call it, the geographic mix. So from a margin perspective, it's much more important that we have been able to deliver the improvement in the underlying business than anything.

不，我認為您說過，廣泛的復甦或改善才是真正重要的。我想說的是——當你放眼全球過去幾年，我們實際上已經付出了很多努力，試圖讓我們對地理分佈不那麼敏感。因此，從利潤率的角度來看，我們能夠實現基礎業務的改善比任何事情都更重要。

So then we flag a bit about the, call it, prebuying, but more in the product mix. But I would say the key driver is all the work, my colleagues have put into improving the operations, and that's really what matters.

因此，我們對此進行了一些標記，稱之為預購，但更多的是在產品組合中。但我想說，關鍵的驅動力是我的同事們為改善營運所做的所有努力，這才是真正重要的。

Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Sandeep Deshpande。

I have a question on margin. The two short questions I have on margin are, firstly, you're seeing this very strong margin. How much of that margin that you see, the gross margin that you're seeing is coming from the mix? And how much -- particularly in terms of the guided margin into the next quarter where you're guiding, I think, 49% at the midpoint gross margin in the Networks business, is coming from this new deal that you've signed and how much of that is one-off because there will be back payments on that deal?

我對保證金有疑問。關於利潤率，我有兩個簡短的問題是：首先，您看到的利潤率非常高。您所看到的利潤率、毛利率有多少是來自於混合？就下一季的指導利潤率而言，我認為您指導的網路業務毛利率中位數為 49%，其中有多少是來自於您簽署的這項新協議？其中有多少是一次性的，因為該協議需要補付款？

When it comes -- we don't split up the different margin impacts. But the three areas that we highlight is product mix, underlying improvements and, to some extent, the market mix. So those are the three components that we try to bring forward. And when it comes to Q2, we don't disclose how much is retroactive payments, et cetera. But of course, it has an impact, and that's part of the outlook that we give.

當談到－我們不會分割不同的利潤影響。但我們強調的三個領域是產品組合、底層改進以及某種程度的市場組合。這就是我們試圖提出的三個要素。當談到第二季時，我們不會透露追溯支付的金額等等。但當然，它會產生影響，這是我們給出的展望的一部分。

And on the other hand, you have somewhat negative impact on the IPRs also coming in with around 1- percentage-point. So those are the building blocks. And then there is somewhat of an underlying organic growth then in the quarter as well. So that is the building blocks that we see going into Q2.

另一方面，這對智慧財產權也產生了一定的負面影響，約 1 個百分點。這些就是基本構件。本季也出現了一定程度的潛在有機成長。這就是我們看到的進入第二季的基礎。

And on the IPR. I think it's also.

以及知識產權。我覺得也是。

Also negative IPR you talked about. What was the negative IPR you talked about?

您還談到了負面智慧財產權。您談到的負面智慧財產權是什麼？

No.

不。

To clarify the negative.

澄清負面內容。

So negative is the tariff part.

關稅部分太負面了。

Tariff. Okay.

關稅。好的。

So it's worthwhile also to remember that the IPR is actually a partial agreement as well.

因此，還值得記住的是，IPR 實際上也是一項部分協定。

Yes. It's not a full agreement. It's a partial agreement that will come.

是的。這不是一個完整的協議。這只是一項即將達成的部分協議。

Sébastien Sztabowicz, Kepler Cheuvreux.

史巴博維奇 (Sébastien Sztabowicz)，開普勒‧舍弗勒 (Kepler Cheuvreux)。

On the cost-cutting actions, where are you standing right now? Where are you putting, I would say, the focus those days? And how should we model the OpEx for the full year? Are you still targeting a broadly flattish OpEx for 2025?

關於削減成本的措施，您目前處於什麼階段？我想說，這些天你把重點放在哪裡？我們應該如何模擬全年的營運支出？您是否仍將 2025 年的營運支出定為基本持平？

When it comes to OpEx, if you look at what we are doing, we have continuously made decisions and we'll continue to make decisions. We live in a flat RAN market. And together with an inflationary market, that, of course, will require cost reductions to offset this part. So that is what we are working against. How it will exactly pan out is, of course, I cannot give you that full guidance, but that is what we are working towards.

談到營運支出，如果你看看我們正在做的事情，你會發現我們一直在做決策，而且我們會繼續做出決策。我們生活在一個扁平的 RAN 市場。當然，在通貨膨脹的市場條件下，需要降低成本來抵銷這部分損失。這就是我們所要努力反對的。當然，我無法給你完整的指導，但這正是我們正在努力的方向。

Then there can be some investments within R&D, specific areas within Networks that we address. But on the other hand, we have made decisions in cloud software and services with reductions. So those are kind of the big moving parts that we have.

然後，我們可以在研發領域以及我們關注的網路特定領域進行一些投資。但另一方面，我們在雲端軟體和服務方面做出了削減的決定。這些就是我們擁有的大型活動部件。

Fredrik Lithell, Handelsbanken.

弗雷德里克‧利塞爾 (Fredrik Lithell)，德國商業銀行。

Congrats to strong results. Can I please come back to the margin guidance for the second quarter? If you printed 51% for Networks in Q1 and you guide excluding the tariffs of 49% to 51% in Q2, which sort of is based on that you expect normal seasonal growth of around 8%.

祝賀取得優異成績。我可以再談談第二季的利潤率指引嗎？如果您在第一季為網路部門列印了 51% 的成長率，並且您指導在第二季排除 49% 至 51% 的關稅，那麼基於此，您預計正常的季節性成長率將在 8% 左右。

So I mean, if we take out the Lenovo part, are you expecting the margins to come down for the sort of the product side excluding the IPRs? Or how should we view that? I'm a little bit confused on this.

所以我的意思是，如果我們去掉聯想部分，你是否預期不包括智慧財產權的產品部分的利潤率會下降？或者說我們應該如何看待這個問題？我對此有點困惑。

When it comes to the organic growth, I think, as I mentioned there, the currency impact in Q1, if we recalculate that to the rates coming out, it was around 4-percentage-points. So I think that can be worth keeping in mind going forward as well. And when it comes to margin, we said 48% to 50%. And then if you exclude the tariff impact, this is based on what we see in the product and market mix going into the quarter. So I think -- and then, of course, there is a bit of support from the IPR in that as well.

談到有機成長，我認為，正如我所提到的，第一季的貨幣影響，如果我們根據即將公佈的利率重新計算，則約為 4 個百分點。所以我認為這一點在未來也值得記住。說到利潤率，我們說是48%到50%。然後，如果排除關稅的影響，這是基於我們在本季看到的產品和市場組合的情況。所以我認為——當然，IPR 對此也給予了一些支持。

But -- so those are the moving parts that are there. And I will not go in and give exact details on everything. But those are our market estimations that we see when it comes to the product deliveries and service deliveries for the quarter.

但是——這些是存在的活動部件。我不會深入描述一切細節。但這些是我們對本季產品交付和服務交付的市場估計。

Yes. I think you said at some point that you're also in Q1, you saw maybe not so much prebuying in sort of before tariffs, but rather than that you had a positive product mix with sort of higher-margin products supporting the Q1 gross margin in Networks. Is that correct that you had that type of effect in the gross margin in Q1?

是的。我想您曾經說過，在第一季度，您可能沒有看到太多的關稅前的預購，而是看到了積極的產品組合，其中高利潤率的產品支撐了網絡部門第一季的毛利率。您對第一季的毛利率有這樣的影響嗎？

Yes. I think we can say that we had a somewhat favorable product mix, both on the hardware and software side here in Q1. But as you know, we are also in a project business, so there can be big deliveries late in the quarter with quite an impact on the margin. So therefore, we try to -- this is what we see now, and that is what we are trying to communicate.

是的。我認為我們可以說，第一季我們的硬體和軟體產品組合都比較有利。但正如您所知，我們也從事專案業務，因此本季末可能會有大量交付，這對利潤率產生很大影響。因此，我們嘗試——這就是我們現在所看到的，這就是我們試圖傳達的。

And I think it's also fair to say that the product mix is driven by the traffic development in network. So how much of it is driven by what, is very hard to dissect. So we're only saying that we saw a bit of shift of product mix in the end of the quarter, as Lars said. How much of that is -- I wouldn't label it necessarily prebuying more as a matter of fact, the needs shifting in the network. We'll see. But the best visibility is what Lars said.

我認為也可以公平地說，產品組合是由網路流量發展所驅動的。因此，其中有多少是由什麼驅動的，很難剖析。因此，正如拉爾斯所說，我們只是說我們在本季末看到了產品組合的一點變化。其中有多少是——事實上，我不會將其標記為必須預購更多，因為網路需求正在改變。我們將拭目以待。但最好的可見性就是拉爾斯所說的。

Richard Kramer, Arete.

理查德·克萊默，Arete。

Just a question that hasn't been asked yet. Services within Networks has now declined for eight straight quarters and four over the last five quarters in Cloud Software. Is this supply-led or demand-led? My question is really, are you making a deliberate change to try to push Ericsson towards structurally higher-margin products business? Or is this a function of customers having less demand for services or you wanting to do less services for them?

這只是尚未被問到的一個問題。網路服務已連續八個季度下滑，雲端軟體服務在過去五個季度中也下滑了四個季度。這是供給主導還是需求主導？我的問題是，您是否有意做出改變，試圖推動愛立信邁向結構性利潤率更高的產品業務？還是這是因為客戶對服務的需求減少，或是您想為他們提供更少的服務？

It's a good question, Richard. I will say it actually varies a bit. So if you look at the network rollout have historically been a very difficult business for Ericsson. So we have tried to very proactively reduce that. So that's what you see coming through in the numbers. It's still an important part of the offering. So that's why it's not going to go away, but I think it's important to get into higher-margin business longer term.

這是個好問題，理查。我想說的是，它實際上有一點不同。所以如果你看一下，你會發現，從歷史上看，網路部署對於愛立信來說是一項非常困難的業務。因此，我們一直積極嘗試減少這種情況。這就是您在數字中看到的結果。它仍然是祭品的重要組成部分。所以這就是為什麼它不會消失，但我認為長期進入利潤更高的業務很重要。

On the Managed Services, there, as you know, we have had, dating back to 2017, rescoping of contracts where we have tried to get out of not attractive contracts. So that's an element of proactively pruning the portfolio.

關於託管服務，如您所知，自 2017 年以來，我們就一直在重新調整合約範圍，試圖擺脫那些不太有吸引力的合約。所以這是主動精簡投資組合的要素。

But you've also seen the last, I would say, the last two, three years, a little bit more push on customers for in-sourcing. So we have had a couple of contracts being in-sourced. I will say what we see now in customer discussions is actually a bit more positive.

但我想說，你也看到了，在過去的兩三年裡，客戶對內部採購的動力有所增加。因此，我們已經簽訂了幾份內部合約。我想說的是，我們現在在客戶討論中看到的情況實際上更加積極一些。

The complexity in networks are increasing quite substantially when you roll out 5G. So we're starting to see now customers coming back and actually, we see an increasing sales of managed service, and we had one fairly big win this quarter. And I'm getting a bit more excited about the opportunity here, driven by the demand for resilience and reliability in the networks and combined with the complexity.

當推出 5G 時，網路的複雜性會大幅增加。因此，我們現在開始看到客戶回歸，實際上，我們看到託管服務的銷售額正在成長，並且我們在本季度取得了相當大的勝利。我對這裡的機會感到更加興奮，這是由網路對彈性和可靠性的需求以及複雜性所驅動的。

So I think the picture is a bit mixed here where part is a proactive decision, but part of it is actually a market that's now starting to come back. So I'm -- I think we may have reason to revisit your question if we're successful on the Managed Services in the next few years actually.

所以我認為這裡的情況有點複雜，一部分是主動的決定，但部分實際上是市場現在開始復甦。所以我——我認為如果我們在未來幾年內在託管服務方面取得成功，我們可能有理由重新審視你的問題。

Sami Sarkamies, Danske Bank.

丹麥銀行的薩米·薩卡米斯（Sami Sarkamies）。

I wanted to ask about market outlook on a regional basis. If you look at Q1 sales to other regions than North America still did not grow even though you continue to talk about pent-up demand. Do you have visibility on improvement during '25 with potentially black figures before the year-end in other regions than North America?

我想詢問一下各區域市場的前景。如果你看一下第一季除北美以外的其他地區的銷售額，儘管你繼續談論被壓抑的需求，但仍然沒有成長。您是否預見到 25 年期間北美以外其他地區的業績會有所改善，年底前可能出現黑色數據？

I think -- I mean, what is the case is North America is growing. That's normally a very good indicator of what happens in the rest. So keep that in mind. The other is Europe has started to grow during second part of last year. Now we're not breaking out Europe, so it's combined with other parts of the world.

我認為——我的意思是，北美正在成長。這通常可以很好地預示其餘情況的發生。所以請記住這一點。另一個是歐洲在去年下半年開始成長。現在我們不會脫離歐洲，所以它與世界其他地區結合在一起。

But that indicates that there is a -- actually that's happening that they need to invest in the networks starting to come through. And then we have, which I would say, Southeast Asia, Oceania, and India, where India has normalized, and we had a fairly strong Q1 last year. So when you make comparable, of course, that impacts year-over-year.

但這表明——事實上，他們需要對開始出現的網路進行投資。然後我想說的是東南亞、大洋洲和印度，其中印度已經恢復正常，去年第一季我們的表現相當強勁。因此，當你進行比較時，這當然會產生逐年影響。

So I think the overall, as we have said, the external analyst talks about a flattish market for the year. That's, of course, a recovery from the shrinking of the former years, where we've seen a fairly big contraction over the last two, three years, to be honest.

因此我認為總體而言，正如我們所說，外部分析師認為今年的市場將持平。當然，這是從前幾年的萎縮中恢復過來的，老實說，在過去兩三年裡，我們看到了相當大的收縮。

So I think we're starting to see that stabilization and possible improvement going forward, again, typically led by front-runner markets. So I'm -- it's always -- I mean, it's easy to have an opinion about the future. It's only hard to be right. So let's think about what we can do here, but we're trying to give you the best visibility we have.

因此，我認為我們開始看到這種穩定和未來可能的改善，這通常是由領先市場引領的。所以我——總是——我的意思是，對未來有自己的看法是很容易的。只是很難做到正確。因此，讓我們思考一下我們能做些什麼，但我們正在盡力為您提供最好的可見性。

Ulrich Rathe, Bernstein.

烏爾里希·拉特，伯恩斯坦。

I wanted to come back to the tariffs in particular, there are two aspects of that. The first one is this 1-percentage-point impact for the second quarter. I think during your prepared remarks, you said that was reflecting what the status of that was on Friday.

我想特別談談關稅問題，它涉及兩個方面。第一個是第二季的1個百分點的影響。我想您在準備好的發言中說過，這反映了周五的情況。

Obviously, over the weekend, there were already additional news. I just wanted to make sure I fully understand what the 1-percentage-point actually reflects in terms of the status of these tariffs. Does it essentially reflect the -- only the removal of the excess tariffs or also this risk of reinstatement that came out over the weekend.

顯然，週末已經有了更多消息。我只是想確保我完全理解 1 個百分點實際上反映了這些關稅的狀況。它是否本質上反映了——僅僅取消過高的關稅，還是反映了週末出現的恢復關稅的風險。

And then the second thing is if you could just give a bit more color. I mean, I'm not entirely sure where you would be willing to give more color, but obvious questions in this context are what percentage of the US sales is actually US production in terms of the value depth? How much capacity do you see in the US amongst third-party contract manufacturers that you can tap or have you already locked in significant capacities?

第二件事是，如果你可以提供更多一點顏色。我的意思是，我不完全確定您願意提供更多細節，但在這種情況下明顯的問題是，就價值深度而言，美國銷售額中有多少百分比實際上是美國生產的？您認為美國第三方合約製造商有多少產能可供您利用，或者您已經鎖定了多少產能？

And I mean, there's any number of questions here. I don't want to list them all, but if you could just give a bit more color what that resilience that you're talking about actually comes from.

我的意思是，這裡有很多問題。我不想一一列舉，但如果你能夠更詳細地說明你所說的韌性實際上來自哪裡。

If I start, you can continue. Looking at the 1% that we gave, it's based on where we came out Friday and what we see there. We -- that is our current view when we're coming out today as well. And then as you know, there will be new information coming and how that will impact, we will have to follow. But we just wanted to make sure that at least to give our best estimate where we stand now given the last changes that has been coming.

如果我開始，你就可以繼續。看看我們給出的 1%，這是基於我們週五得出的結果和我們在那裡看到的情況。我們——這也是我們今天出來時的觀點。然後，正如你所知，將會有新的訊息出現，以及它將產生什麼影響，我們將不得不關注。但我們只是想確保至少能夠根據即將發生的最新變化對我們目前的狀況做出最好的估計。

That is what we're trying to say with this number. And then when it comes to production, we don't give -- we have a US production site where we can produce. We don't give exact numbers on how much is coming from where.

這就是我們想透過這個數字表達的意思。當談到生產時，我們不會給予——我們有一個可以生產的國家生產基地。我們沒有給出確切的數字來說明數量和來源。

And it is, as I said, we have production in US, South America and Europe and part of Asia, and we can shift volumes between sites, but it's not a quick change, of course. But we don't do any big changes now because we don't know actually where we're going to land. So we will see here in the coming months if we choose to ramp up or ramp down between different sites. But it's very depending on where the tariffs actually land at the end of the day here.

正如我所說，我們在美國、南美洲、歐洲和亞洲部分地區都有生產，我們可以在各個地點之間轉移產量，但這當然不是快速的變化。但我們現在不會做任何重大的改變，因為我們實際上不知道我們會落在哪裡。因此，我們將在未來幾個月內看到我們是否選擇在不同站點之間增加或減少產量。但這很大程度上取決於關稅最終的實際落地情況。

And I think it's also important to tie back to actually the first question. What is it that gives rise to the tariffs actually, components, and really site material, right? So those are the flows that we need to work on. And we need to create, I call it, a Western ecosystem in this, and that's going to take some time. But that is what really gives rise to the tariffs.

我認為回到第一個問題也很重要。實際上是什麼導致了關稅，是零件，還是網站材料，對嗎？這些就是我們需要努力的流程。我們需要創建一個我稱之為西方的生態系統，這需要一些時間。但這才是真正導致關稅的原因。

Felix Henriksson, Nordea.

菲利克斯·亨利克森（Felix Henriksson），北歐聯合銀行（Nordea）。

Could you talk a bit about the competitive trends that you're seeing outside of the US? And related to that, the negative organic growth figures that you delivered outside of the Americas, are these sort of related to broader demand weakness? Or has the competitive environment also gotten tougher?

您能否談談您在美國以外看到的競爭趨勢？與此相關的是，您公佈的美洲以外地區的負有機成長數據是否與更廣泛的需求疲軟有關？或者競爭環境也變得更激烈了？

So if you look outside, I think we already last year said that the competition from Chinese vendors have increased. So that's really not the change. It's been the same for several quarters now. So I would say that we have some footprint losses, and we have some footprint gains that's coming in the numbers. So I wouldn't say it's a change, but the market has been slower outside of North America.

所以如果你看一下外面的情況，我想我們去年就已經說過來自中國供應商的競爭已經加劇。所以這其實並不是改變。這種情況已經持續了好幾個季度了。所以我想說，從數字上看，我們的足跡有一些損失，但也有一些增加。所以我不會說這是一個變化，但北美以外的市場發展一直比較緩慢。

But really, when you focus on the wins or losses, it's -- we'll have to see where market shares come. But I don't see -- I see some footprint gains and some footprint losses. So I think they are more or less evening out. But let's see when the final numbers come from the market.

但實際上，當你專注於勝利或失敗時，我們必須看看市場份額來自哪裡。但我沒有看到——我看到一些足跡增加，也看到一些足跡減少。所以我認為他們或多或少已經平衡了。但讓我們看看市場何時會公佈最終數據。

So that concludes the call today. Thanks everyone for joining.

今天的通話到此結束。感謝大家的加入。