Deutsche Bank AG (DB) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Deutsche Bank Q1 2023 Fixed Income Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to Philip Teuchner. Please go ahead.

女士們，先生們，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎並感謝您加入德意志銀行 2023 年第一季度固定收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）我現在想將會議轉交給 Philip Teuchner。請繼續。

Good afternoon or good morning, and thank you all for joining us today. On the call, our Group Treasurer, Richard Stewart will take us through some fixed income-specific topics. For the subsequent Q&A session, we also have our CFO, James von Moltke with us to answer your questions.

下午好或早上好，感謝大家今天加入我們。在電話會議上，我們的集團財務主管理查德·斯圖爾特 (Richard Stewart) 將帶我們了解一些特定於固定收益的主題。對於隨後的問答環節，我們的首席財務官 James von Moltke 也將與我們一起回答您的問題。

The slides that accompany the topics are available for download from our website at db.com. After the presentation, we will be happy to take your questions.

主題附帶的幻燈片可從我們的網站 db.com 下載。演示結束後，我們將很樂意回答您的問題。

Before we get started, I just want to remind you that the presentation may contain forward-looking statements, which may not develop as we currently expect. Therefore, please take note of the precautionary warning at the end of our materials. With that, let me hand over to Richard.

在我們開始之前，我只想提醒您，該演示文稿可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述可能不會像我們目前預期的那樣發展。因此，請注意我們材料末尾的預防警告。有了這個，讓我交給理查德。

Thank you, Philip, and welcome from me. We are pleased with the progress we continue to make towards our 2025 goals. The first quarter was marked by turbulent conditions in the banking sector, particularly in March, in addition to the macroeconomic challenges.

謝謝你，菲利普，歡迎我。我們對我們在實現 2025 年目標方面繼續取得的進展感到高興。第一季度的特點是銀行業動盪不安，尤其是在 3 月份，此外還有宏觀經濟挑戰。

However, our transformation has provided us with strong foundations, which enabled us to navigate these challenges successfully.

然而，我們的轉型為我們提供了堅實的基礎，使我們能夠成功應對這些挑戰。

We delivered on 4 critical dimensions: First, profitability. Pretax profits increased by 12% to EUR 1.9 billion and post-tax profit by 8% to EUR 1.3 billion, which on both counts represents our strongest first quarter since 2013. Our cost/income ratio was 71% this quarter, 2 percentage points better than the prior year, driven by positive operating leverage.

我們交付了 4 個關鍵維度：第一，盈利能力。稅前利潤增長 12% 至 19 億歐元，稅後利潤增長 8% 至 13 億歐元，這兩項都是我們自 2013 年以來最強勁的第一季度。本季度我們的成本/收入比率為 71%，提高了 2 個百分點比上一年，在積極的經營槓桿的推動下。

As you know, annual bank levers are recognized in the first quarter. Spreading these bank levers equally across the 4 quarters of the year, our first quarter cost/income ratio would be 67%, with a post-tax return on tangible equity of 10%, putting us well on track to our 2025 targets.

如您所知，年度銀行槓桿在第一季度得到確認。在今年的 4 個季度平均分配這些銀行槓桿，我們第一季度的成本/收入比率將為 67%，有形資產的稅後回報率為 10%，使我們順利實現 2025 年的目標。

Second, we improved the strength of our franchise. Our business model is focused on 4 client-centric businesses, which complement each other and provide a well-diversified earnings mix as this quarter shows. We delivered revenues of EUR 7.7 billion, up 5% over the prior year quarter.

其次，我們提高了特許經營的實力。正如本季度所示，我們的業務模式專注於 4 項以客戶為中心的業務，它們相互補充並提供多元化的收益組合。我們實現了 77 億歐元的收入，比去年同期增長 5%。

Third, we again proved our resilience. Our Common Equity Tier 1 capital ratio was 13.6%, and our liquidity coverage ratio rose to 143%. I'll go into more detail on both later.

第三，我們再次證明了我們的韌性。我們的普通股一級資本比率為 13.6%，我們的流動性覆蓋率上升至 143%。稍後我將詳細介紹兩者。

Finally, sustainability is an important part of our strategy. As you heard at our Sustainability Deep Dive in March, we have updated our business strategies and policies and expanded on our commitments in several ways to fight climate change.

最後，可持續性是我們戰略的重要組成部分。正如您在 3 月份的可持續發展深入探討中所聽到的那樣，我們已經更新了我們的業務戰略和政策，並以多種方式擴大了我們應對氣候變化的承諾。

Let me put a few key performance indicators in the first quarter in the context of our 2025 targets on Slide 2. We have strong revenue momentum. A well-balanced business mix enables us to benefit from higher interest rates, despite challenging financial markets, delivering revenue growth above our 2025 targeted compound annual growth rate on a last 12-month basis.

讓我在幻燈片 2 的 2025 年目標背景下列出第一季度的一些關鍵績效指標。我們有強勁的收入勢頭。均衡的業務組合使我們能夠從更高的利率中受益，儘管金融市場充滿挑戰，但在過去 12 個月的基礎上實現了高於我們 2025 年目標複合年增長率的收入增長。

Our post-tax return on tangible equity was 8.3% in the first quarter or 10% pro [rostering] through the year, already in line with our 2025 target.

我們第一季度的有形股本稅後回報率為 8.3%，全年為 10% [名冊]，已經符合我們 2025 年的目標。

We have made steady progress on our cost/income ratio. The first quarter performance shows clear progress towards our 2025 target of less than 62.5%. We demonstrated the strength of our capital and balance sheet and quality of our loan book in challenging conditions.

我們在成本/收入比率方面取得了穩步進展。第一季度的業績顯示，我們在 2025 年低於 62.5% 的目標方面取得了明顯進展。在充滿挑戰的條件下，我們展示了資本和資產負債表的實力以及貸款賬簿的質量。

Let me now turn to our loan book on Slide 3, which is well diversified across businesses and regions. Around 70% of the book is secured or hedged, and almost 8% of our loan portfolio is in our stable and mostly lower-risk businesses in the Private Bank and Corporate Bank. Nearly half of our book is based in Germany, and 40% is equally distributed across EMEA and North America, with the remainder in APAC.

現在讓我轉到幻燈片 3 上的貸款簿，它在不同的企業和地區都非常多樣化。大約 70% 的賬簿是有擔保或對沖的，我們的貸款組合中近 8% 是在我們穩定且風險較低的私人銀行和企業銀行業務中。我們這本書的近一半位於德國，40% 平均分佈在 EMEA 和北美，其餘分佈在亞太地區。

Provision for credit losses for the first quarter was 30 basis points of average loans or EUR 372 million. Stage 3 provisions increased to EUR 397 million compared to EUR 140 million in the prior-year quarter. The majority of this was driven by a small number of idiosyncratic events in the International Private Bank.

第一季度的信貸損失準備金為平均貸款的 30 個基點或 3.72 億歐元。第三階段準備金從去年同期的 1.4 億歐元增加到 3.97 億歐元。其中大部分是由國際私人銀行中的少數特殊事件驅動的。

This was offset by a release of EUR 26 million in Stage 1 and 2 provisions, partially driven by a slight improvement in the macroeconomic outlook since the fourth quarter of 2022 compared to a charge of EUR 178 million in the prior-year quarter.

這被第一階段和第二階段準備金的 2600 萬歐元抵消，部分原因是自 2022 年第四季度以來宏觀經濟前景略有改善，而去年同期為 1.78 億歐元。

We did not see a wider deterioration in the portfolio outside of this small number of specific events, and overall credit quality remains high.

除了這少數特定事件之外，我們沒有看到投資組合出現更廣泛的惡化，整體信用質量仍然很高。

For the full year 2023, we reaffirm our previous guidance of 25 to 30 basis points of average loans.

對於 2023 年全年，我們重申之前對平均貸款 25 至 30 個基點的指導。

On Slide 4, you can see some key indicators of our balance sheet strength. I'll get into further details on the subsequent slides. Our capital and leverage ratio both increased on a like-for-like basis compared to the prior-year period. Our liquidity position is strong with a liquidity coverage ratio of 143% or EUR 63 billion above the 100% requirement.

在幻燈片 4 上，您可以看到我們資產負債表實力的一些關鍵指標。我將在後續幻燈片中詳細介紹。與去年同期相比，我們的資本和槓桿率均同比增長。我們的流動性狀況良好，流動性覆蓋率為 143%，即比 100% 的要求高出 630 億歐元。

On the back of the market volatility in March, we decided to maintain an LCR level above our target for the first quarter and steered towards a 140% ratio. A well-diversified funding mix enabled us to offset the reduction in deposits through other sources and to slightly increase the LCR quarter-on-quarter.

鑑於 3 月份的市場波動，我們決定將 LCR 水平維持在我們第一季度的目標之上，並轉向 140% 的比率。多元化的資金組合使我們能夠通過其他來源抵消存款的減少，並略微增加 LCR 的季度環比。

We have already completed more than half of our issuance plan for the year and are therefore flexible regarding the timing of future issuances. Looking at deposits, we have a very well-diversified portfolio across client segments, products and geographies, which is core to our strong overall funding mix. In addition, we have seen about EUR 12 billion inflows in our assets under management in the Private Bank and Asset Management.

我們已經完成了今年發行計劃的一半以上，因此對未來的發行時間持靈活態度。看看存款，我們在客戶群、產品和地域方面擁有非常多元化的投資組合，這是我們強大的整體資金組合的核心。此外，我們在私人銀行和資產管理部門管理的資產中看到約 120 億歐元的資金流入。

Slide 5 provides further details on the developments in our loan and deposit book over the quarter. All figures in the commentary are adjusted for FX effects. Loans have been essentially flat in the quarter. Deposits declined by 2% or EUR 15 billion compared to the first quarter last year and by 4% or EUR 27 billion compared to the previous quarter.

幻燈片 5 提供了有關本季度貸款和存款簿發展的更多詳細信息。評論中的所有數字都針對 FX 效果進行了調整。本季度貸款基本持平。與去年第一季度相比，存款下降了 2% 或 150 億歐元，與上一季度相比下降了 4% 或 270 億歐元。

Deposits in the Corporate Bank have declined by 6% over the quarter, mostly due to normalizations from elevated levels in the last 2 quarters, as previously communicated, as well as increased pricing competition.

公司銀行的存款在本季度下降了 6%，這主要是由於如前所述，過去兩個季度的高水平已經正常化，以及定價競爭加劇。

Deposits in the Private Bank have declined by 2%, mainly driven by continued inflationary pressures and clients' migration to higher-yielding products, which accounts for about 30% of the deposit reduction. Our Private Bank deposit campaign, which was launched early in the quarter, remains on track.

私人銀行的存款下降了 2%，主要受持續的通脹壓力和客戶轉向更高收益產品的推動，約佔存款減少的 30%。我們在本季度初啟動的私人銀行存款活動仍在進行中。

Slide 6 shows that we have generally seen a trend of deposit normalization from elevated levels in the third and fourth quarter of last year. We have taken decisive pricing measures post the COVID pandemic with our focus to implement deposit charging agreements.

幻燈片 6 顯示，我們普遍看到存款從去年第三和第四季度的高水平正常化的趨勢。在 COVID 大流行之後，我們採取了果斷的定價措施，重點是實施存款收費協議。

These have not only materially improved deposit margins but also preserved the high portfolio quality, which is a key driver for the only 2% portfolio decline versus prior year.

這不僅顯著提高了存款利潤率，還保持了高投資組合質量，這是投資組合較上一年僅下降 2% 的關鍵驅動因素。

For the first time in this rate hiking cycle, we have seen customers structurally adapting to higher levels of interest rates as well as increased price competition amongst banks. As such, deposit normalization occurred primarily in noninterest-bearing products and about 2/3 of the reductions during the quarter occurred before the period of market volatility in late March.

在這個加息週期中，我們第一次看到客戶在結構上適應更高水平的利率以及銀行之間日益激烈的價格競爭。因此，存款正常化主要發生在無息產品中，本季度約 2/3 的減少發生在 3 月下旬市場波動之前。

Our realized [BEATs] in our deposit books remain better than our modeling, including these effects. We attribute about 1/3 of deposit reductions in the quarter to clients reacting to events in late March. This constitutes only 1% of our overall deposit portfolio and speaks to the underlying quality of our book.

我們在存款簿中實現的 [BEAT] 仍然優於我們的建模，包括這些影響。我們將本季度約 1/3 的存款減少歸因於客戶對 3 月下旬事件的反應。這僅占我們整體存款組合的 1%，說明了我們賬簿的基本質量。

We maintain a well-diversified portfolio across businesses, client segments and regions, with 73% of deposits in our German home market. More than 40% of our total deposit base, excluding banks, is covered under a statutory deposit insurance scheme. And in Germany, 77% of our retail deposits are insured.

我們在業務、客戶群和地區保持多元化的投資組合，其中 73% 的存款在我們的德國本土市場。法定存款保險計劃覆蓋了我們總存款基礎（不包括銀行）的 40% 以上。在德國，我們 77% 的零售存款都有保險。

Over 80% of our deposits are from most stable client segments such as retail, corporates, SMEs and sovereigns. In the more professional client segments, we benefit from long-standing and deeply rooted client relationships.

我們超過 80% 的存款來自最穩定的客戶群，例如零售、企業、中小企業和主權國家。在更專業的客戶群中，我們受益於長期和根深蒂固的客戶關係。

We serve a highly diverse set of clients across the globe with a vast range of services, such as cash and securities clearing or trust and agency services. As a result, 74% of our Corporate Bank deposits are either term deposits, operational current accounts or deposits from SMEs.

我們為全球範圍內高度多樣化的客戶提供範圍廣泛的服務，例如現金和證券清算或信託和代理服務。因此，我們公司銀行存款的 74% 是定期存款、業務往來賬戶或來自中小企業的存款。

Moving to Slide 7, highlighting the development of our key liquidity metrics. The liquidity coverage ratio, at quarter end, slightly increased to 143%, maintaining a very strong liquidity position despite the recent market volatility and deposit headwinds during the quarter.

轉到幻燈片 7，突出顯示我們關鍵流動性指標的發展。流動性覆蓋率在季度末略微上升至 143%，儘管本季度近期市場波動和存款逆風，但仍保持非常強勁的流動性狀況。

The surplus above the regulatory minimum slightly decreased by about EUR 1 billion to EUR 63 billion quarter-on-quarter, driven by EUR 11 billion lower stock of high-quality liquid assets and a EUR 9 billion decrease of net cash outflows.

高於監管最低限度的盈餘環比略微減少約 10 億歐元至 630 億歐元，這是由於優質流動資產存量減少 110 億歐元和淨現金流出減少 90 億歐元。

For the second quarter, we remain committed to support growth in the business and target to managing our LCR conservatively towards 130% over time. The net stable funding ratio remained unchanged at 120%, which is at the upper bound of our target range. This represents a surplus of about EUR 100 billion above the regulatory requirement.

對於第二季度，我們仍然致力於支持業務增長，並目標是隨著時間的推移將我們的 LCR 保守地管理到 130%。淨穩定資金比例保持在 120%不變，處於我們目標區間的上限。這表示超出監管要求約 1000 億歐元的盈餘。

The available longer-term stable funding sources for the bank remain well diversified and are supported by robust deposit franchise, which continues contributing about 2/3 of the group's stable funding sources.

該銀行可用的長期穩定資金來源仍然很多元化，並得到穩健的存款特許經營權的支持，繼續貢獻該集團約 2/3 的穩定資金來源。

Targeted deposit campaigns in the Private Bank, as mentioned before, will also support our NSFR. We aim to maintain this funding mix over the course of 2023, with the remaining TLTRO being gradually replaced.

如前所述，私人銀行中有針對性的存款活動也將支持我們的 NSFR。我們的目標是在 2023 年期間保持這種資金組合，並逐步取代剩餘的 TLTRO。

We voluntarily prepaid an additional EUR 8 billion of TLTRO during the quarter. The cumulative repayment of TLTRO amounts to about EUR 19 billion. For the rest of the year, we are focused on further reducing the remaining TLTRO funding with expected quarterly repayments of EUR 3 billion to EUR 4 billion.

我們在本季度自願額外預付了 80 億歐元的 TLTRO。 TLTRO累計還款額約為190億歐元。在今年剩餘時間裡，我們將專注於進一步減少剩餘的 TLTRO 資金，預計每季度還款額為 30 億至 40 億歐元。

We have continued to benefit from the interest rate environment in the first quarter, as demonstrated by the rising net interest margin in the Corporate Bank and Private Bank on Slide 8. Group net interest margin, however, declined due to the accounting treatment of some of our central hedges and balance sheet management activities.

我們繼續受益於第一季度的利率環境，幻燈片 8 中公司銀行和私人銀行的淨息差上升就證明了這一點。然而，由於部分銀行的會計處理，集團淨息差有所下降我們的中央對沖和資產負債表管理活動。

This quarter, the accounting effect resulted in a sequential impact on group NIM of around negative 20 basis points. This effect is held in C&O, where it is fully offset by an increase in noninterest revenue, and there is no economic loss to the firm or overall impact on group P&L.

本季度，會計效應對集團 NIM 產生了大約負 20 個基點的連續影響。這種影響保留在 C&O 中，它被非利息收入的增加完全抵消，並且公司沒有經濟損失或對集團 P&L 的整體影響。

Realized deposit betas remain favorable when compared to our models, but we expect this to partially normalize in the coming quarters as the pace of interest rate rises slows. Average interest-earning assets declined modestly, driven mainly by our TLTRO prepayments.

與我們的模型相比，已實現存款貝塔係數仍然有利，但我們預計隨著利率上升步伐放緩，這將在未來幾個季度部分正常化。平均生息資產溫和下降，主要受我們的 TLTRO 預付款項的推動。

Turning to capital on Slide 9. Our Common Equity Tier 1 ratio came in at 13.6%, a 25 basis point increase compared to the previous quarter. FX translation effects contributed 1 basis point. Changes in capital supply added 30 basis points, reflecting organic capital generation from net income, partially offset by equity compensation.

轉向幻燈片 9 的資本。我們的普通股一級資本比率為 13.6%，比上一季度增加 25 個基點。 FX 轉換效果貢獻了 1 個基點。資本供應變化增加了 30 個基點，反映了淨收入產生的有機資本，部分被股權補償所抵消。

Higher risk-weighted assets reduced the ratio by 6 basis points. Credit risk-weighted assets increased primarily from the business growth in the Investment Bank and Corporate Bank. We also saw a decrease in market risk RWA from an ECB-approved reduction in our qualitative multiplier add-on.

較高的風險加權資產使該比率降低了 6 個基點。信用風險加權資產的增加主要來自於投資銀行和公司銀行的業務增長。我們還看到，歐洲央行批准減少我們的定性乘數附加組件，從而降低了市場風險風險加權資產。

Our capital ratios remain well above regulatory requirements, as shown on Slide 10. We saw a 62 basis point increase in our Common Equity Tier 1 capital requirement in the quarter, in line with our prior guidance.

如幻燈片 10 所示，我們的資本比率仍遠高於監管要求。本季度我們的普通股一級資本要求增加了 62 個基點，這與我們之前的指導一致。

The increase reflects 11 basis points from a higher setting of Pillar 2 requirements by the ECB, 20 basis points from the German systemic risk buffer for residential mortgages and 30 basis points from the introduction of the German countercyclical buffer.

這一增長反映了歐洲央行提高第二支柱要求的 11 個基點、德國住宅抵押貸款系統性風險緩衝的 20 個基點以及德國反週期緩衝的引入 30 個基點。

Together with a 25 basis points increase in our Common Equity Tier 1 capital ratio, this resulted in a 37 basis point decrease in addition to our Common Equity Tier 1 capital requirement quarter-on-quarter. The Common Equity Tier 1 MDA buffer stands at 251 basis points or EUR 9 billion. Our buffer to the total capital required decreased by 58 basis points to 272 basis points.

加上我們的普通股一級資本比率增加 25 個基點，這導致我們的普通股一級資本要求環比下降了 37 個基點。普通股一級 MDA 緩衝為 251 個基點或 90 億歐元。我們對所需總資本的緩沖減少了 58 個基點至 272 個基點。

Moving to Slide 11. At the end of the first quarter, our leverage ratio was 4.6%, an increase of 6 basis points versus the prior quarter. FX translation effects resulted in a 1 basis point leverage ratio increase. 7 basis points came from higher Tier 1 capital, principally retained earnings.

轉到幻燈片 11。第一季度末，我們的槓桿率為 4.6%，比上一季度增加 6 個基點。外匯換算效應導致槓桿率上升 1 個基點。 7 個基點來自較高的一級資本，主要是留存收益。

Higher leverage usage, mostly from a seasonal increase in market making activities in FIC led to a 2 basis point decrease in our leverage ratio.

更高的槓桿使用率，主要是由於 FIC 做市活動的季節性增加導致我們的槓桿率下降了 2 個基點。

We continue to operate with significant loss-absorbing capacity well above all our requirements, as shown on Slide 12. The MREL surplus, as our most binding constraint, slightly increased to EUR 19 billion over the quarter.

如幻燈片 12 所示，我們繼續以遠高於我們所有要求的顯著損失吸收能力運營。作為我們最具約束力的約束，MREL 盈餘在本季度略微增加至 190 億歐元。

This includes the approximately EUR 2 billion impact from the higher-tier buffer requirements, which became effective on the 1st of February 2023, which are more than offset by higher available MREL capacity.

這包括自 2023 年 2 月 1 日起生效的較高級別緩衝要求帶來的約 20 億歐元的影響，這些影響被更高的可用 MREL 容量所抵消。

For the second quarter, we expect, all other things being equal, our MREL headroom to reduce by approximately EUR 3 billion. This is driven by a higher MREL requirement and general prior permissions becoming subject to deduction, following the publication of a new regulatory technical standard in the EU Journal on the 19th of April 2023.

對於第二季度，我們預計，在所有其他條件相同的情況下，我們的 MREL 餘量將減少約 30 億歐元。這是由於 2023 年 4 月 19 日在歐盟期刊上發布了一項新的監管技術標准後，更高的 MREL 要求和一般的事先許可將被扣除。

Our loss-absorbing capacity buffer remains at a comfortable level and continues to provide us with a [flexibility] to pause issuing new eligibles liability instruments for at least 1 year.

我們的損失吸收能力緩衝保持在一個舒適的水平，並繼續為我們提供 [靈活性] 暫停發行新的合格責任工具至少 1 年。

Moving now to our issuance plan on Slide 13. We are refining our guidance regarding our 2023 issuance plan down to the lower end of previously communicated EUR 13 million to EUR 18 billion range.

現在轉到我們在幻燈片 13 上的發行計劃。我們正在將我們關於 2023 年發行計劃的指導細化到之前公佈的 1300 萬歐元至 180 億歐元範圍的下限。

We now expect to issue EUR 12 million to EUR 15 billion, of which we have completed EUR 8 billion year-to-date, more than half of our plan for the year. This issuance was executed before the market volatility and hence at relatively attractive funding costs for the bank.

我們現在預計發行 1200 萬至 150 億歐元，其中我們今年迄今已完成 80 億歐元，超過我們今年計劃的一半。此次發行是在市場波動之前執行的，因此對銀行來說融資成本相對具有吸引力。

In terms of composition, we have completed our capital insurance issuance plan for 2023 when we issued a USD 1.5 billion Tier 2 note in February to refinance the recently called U.S. dollar Tier 2 note with the same [notion]. This triggered immediate derecognition from regulatory capital. Note that USD 1.5 billion rounds down to 1 on the slide.

在構成方面，我們已經完成了 2023 年的資本保險發行計劃，我們在 2 月份發行了 15 億美元的二級票據，以對最近召回的具有相同 [概念] 的美元二級票據進行再融資。這引發了監管資本的立即終止確認。請注意，幻燈片中的 15 億美元四捨五入為 1。

Our next [call] for AT1 securities are in 2025. In terms of senior non-preferred debt, we have issued EUR 4 billion year-to-date, and expect further issuances to be in the EUR 0 billion to EUR 1 billion range, depending on balance sheet developments.

我們對 AT1 證券的下一次 [呼籲] 是在 2025 年。就高級非優先債務而言，我們今年迄今已發行 40 億歐元，並預計進一步發行將在 0 億歐元至 10 億歐元之間，取決於資產負債表的發展。

We are seeing ongoing strong demand for senior preferred debt and now expect to issue EUR 2 billion to EUR 4 billion up from EUR 1 billion to EUR 2 billion communicated on our last call. This paper is mainly coming as retail-targeted issuance.

我們看到對高級優先債務的持續強勁需求，現在預計將發行 20 億至 40 億歐元，高於我們上次電話會議上溝通的 10 億至 20 億歐元。本文主要作為面向零售的發行。

This pivot to senior preferred also lowers the overall cost of funding for the bank. Our main focus for the rest of 2023 will be the issuance of covered bonds as part of our TLTRO repayment strategy.

這種轉向高級優先的方式也降低了銀行的總體融資成本。我們 2023 年剩餘時間的主要重點將是發行擔保債券，作為我們 TLTRO 還款策略的一部分。

You may have seen our announcement this morning of a EUR 1 billion tender offer, targeting our euro-denominated short-dated senior non-preferred debt.

您可能已經看到我們今天上午宣布了一項 10 億歐元的收購要約，目標是我們以歐元計價的短期優先非優先債務。

This transaction aims to correct the distortions we see in our curve since March and restore a normal upward sloping curve with a small differentiation between bullet and callable securities. The tender offer will run until 9th of May and expect it to be P&L accretive for the bank.

該交易旨在糾正自 3 月以來我們在曲線中看到的扭曲，並恢復正常的向上傾斜曲線，子彈和可贖回證券之間的差異很小。要約收購將持續到 5 月 9 日，預計這將增加銀行的損益。

Before going to your questions, let me conclude with a summary on Slide 14. We remain focused on delivering positive operating leverage. We expect 2023 revenues around the midpoint of the range between EUR 28 million and EUR 29 billion. In line with our previous guidance, provision for credit losses is expected in the range of 25 to 30 basis points of average loans.

在回答您的問題之前，讓我總結一下幻燈片 14。我們仍然專注於提供積極的運營槓桿。我們預計 2023 年的收入將在 2800 萬歐元至 290 億歐元之間的中點左右。根據我們之前的指引，信貸損失準備金預計在平均貸款的 25 至 30 個基點範圍內。

We remain committed to our capital distribution plan. Consistent with our path we laid out at the Investor Deep Dive last year, we proposed a cash dividend of EUR 0.30 per share for approval at the AGM in May, and the dialogue with supervisors about share buybacks in the second half of the year has been initiated.

我們仍然致力於我們的資本分配計劃。與我們去年在 Investor Deep Dive 上製定的路徑一致，我們在 5 月份的年度股東大會上提出了每股 0.30 歐元的現金股息以供批准，並與監管層就下半年的股票回購進行了對話。發起。

We're also committed to maintaining a strong capital position and a strong liquidity and funding base. All of which we demonstrated during turbulent conditions in the first quarter. Our funding plan is well advanced and positions us comfortably regarding the requirements for the rest of the year.

我們還致力於保持強大的資本狀況以及強大的流動性和資金基礎。我們在第一季度的動盪環境中展示了所有這些。我們的籌資計劃進展順利，使我們能夠輕鬆應對今年剩餘時間的需求。

With that, I will finish, and we look forward to your questions.

至此，我將結束，我們期待您的提問。

Before we do Q&A, it's James here, I just wanted to make a brief statement. You will have seen that we have today announced the acquisition of Numis, a leading U.K. corporate broker and advisory house.

在我們進行問答之前，我是 James，我只想做一個簡短的陳述。您會看到，我們今天宣布收購英國領先的企業經紀人和諮詢公司 Numis。

We're excited by this transaction, which supports the comments that Christian made yesterday on our equity results call, namely that the current market conditions create opportunities for us to attract talent and strengthen advisory capabilities in various businesses and regions.

我們對這筆交易感到興奮，它支持克里斯蒂安昨天在我們的股票業績電話會議上發表的評論，即當前的市場狀況為我們創造了吸引人才和加強各業務和地區諮詢能力的機會。

We're pleased that the reaction from our clients to the announcement of the transaction so far as they recognize the strategic logic of the transaction and appreciate the enhanced services that the combined business will provide.

我們很高興客戶對交易公告的反應，只要他們認識到交易的戰略邏輯並欣賞合併後的業務將提供的增強服務。

The acquisition of Numis gives us a unique ability to accelerate our global house bank strategy by unlocking a much deeper engagement with the corporate client segment in the U.K.

收購 Numis 使我們能夠與英國的企業客戶群進行更深入的合作，從而加速我們的全球開戶銀行戰略。

This will be achieved by combining Deutsche Bank's existing U.K. and Ireland Corporate Finance business with Numis to establish a leading force in U.K. investment banking with a prominent position across corporate broking, strategic advisory, equity and debt capital markets and equity research as well as sales and execution to leverage Deutsche Bank's comprehensive and global product offering across the Corporate Bank and the International Private Bank.

這將通過將德意志銀行現有的英國和愛爾蘭企業融資業務與 Numis 合併，建立英國投資銀行業的領先力量，在企業經紀、戰略諮詢、股票和債務資本市場、股票研究以及銷售和執行以利用德意志銀行在企業銀行和國際私人銀行的全面和全球產品供應。

And with that, I'll hand the call to Natalie to moderate Q&A.

有了這個，我會把電話轉給娜塔莉來主持問答。

(Operator Instructions) And our first question is from the line of Jakub Lichwa from Goldman Sachs.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自高盛的 Jakub Lichwa。

Few questions from me. It won't be very original, but that's where the market focus is. So first, on the deposits, as you noted, they were (inaudible) quarter-on-quarter. You did provide a little bit of color. But again, maybe just to reiterate, what were the key drivers there?

我的問題很少。它不會很原始，但這就是市場關注的地方。因此，首先，正如您所指出的，在存款方面，它們是（聽不清）季度環比的。你確實提供了一點顏色。但是，也許只是重申一下，那裡的關鍵驅動因素是什麼？

And more importantly, how do you expect the balance to develop from here? That will be one. And still [monthly], again on the deposits, can you provide an update on your observed deposit beta, please?

更重要的是，您期望從這裡開始平衡如何發展？那將是一個。仍然[每月]，再次關於存款，你能提供你觀察到的存款 beta 的更新嗎？

Thanks, Jakub and thanks, everyone, for joining this call on a Friday afternoon. Ahead for many of us, a long weekend. And also, I guess, we kind of throw a few things at people this week. So whether it's earnings, some strategy tweaks, management board changes and then Numis acquisition, I guess, our [bond] tender this morning as well. So I'm sure there's of questions that you have.

謝謝 Jakub，也謝謝大家參加週五下午的電話會議。對我們許多人來說，將迎來一個漫長的周末。而且，我想，這週我們會向人們扔一些東西。因此，無論是收益、一些戰略調整、管理委員會變動，還是 Numis 的收購，我想，我們今天早上的[債券]招標也是如此。所以我確定你有很多問題。

But going straight to your -- topics around deposits, you're right, it's obviously the front and center of concern, I guess, for the market over the last couple of months. So for us, as I mentioned earlier, we saw a drop in deposits ex FX, around 4% on the quarter, 2% year-on-year.

但是直奔你的 - 關於存款的話題，你是對的，我想這顯然是過去幾個月市場關注的前沿和中心。因此，對於我們來說，正如我之前提到的，我們看到除外匯之外的存款有所下降，本季度下降約 4%，同比下降 2%。

In absolute terms, that's around EUR 27 billion in the quarter. And I'd say, 2/3 of that can be explained as a normalization from elevated levels that we saw in Q3 and Q4, particularly in our Corporate Bank, and -- which we have mentioned on our Q4 earnings call, it was likely to reduce in the first quarter.

按絕對值計算，本季度約為 270 億歐元。我想說，其中 2/3 可以解釋為我們在第三季度和第四季度看到的高水平的正常化，特別是在我們的公司銀行，而且——我們在第四季度的財報電話會議上提到過，很可能一季度減少。

This drop of 2/3 was driven by, I guess, two main factors. One was clients shifting deposits into high-yielding investment alternatives as well as active deposit reductions from those elevated levels that I mentioned.

我猜這 2/3 的下降是由兩個主要因素驅動的。一個是客戶將存款轉移到高收益的投資選擇，以及從我提到的高水平上積極減少存款。

In addition, obviously, when we came into March, we had the market turbulence, and about 1/3 of the reduction then or 1% of our overall deposit base came in the last sort of week, 10 days of the quarter as certain clients just repositioned some of their exposures following events at Credit Suisse. And unfortunately, the volatility in our own name also influenced that.

此外，很明顯，當我們進入 3 月時，我們遇到了市場動盪，當時大約 1/3 的減少或我們總存款基數的 1% 來自最後一周，即本季度的 10 天，因為某些客戶剛剛在瑞士信貸發生事件後重新定位了他們的一些風險敞口。不幸的是，我們自己名字的波動也影響了這一點。

We saw increased price competition from our peers for deposits as well as that moving into high-yielding assets during that period. And as mentioned in my previous comments, we saw our share of that flow into both our Wealth Management and Asset Management businesses of EUR 12 billion in total.

在此期間，我們看到同行對存款以及轉向高收益資產的價格競爭加劇。正如我之前的評論所述，我們看到我們在財富管理和資產管理業務中的份額總計 120 億歐元。

And then when we kind of came through quarter end and into April, our deposit base has stabilized and is improving as we head into month end.

然後，當我們從季度末進入 4 月時，我們的存款基礎已經穩定下來，並且隨著我們進入月底而有所改善。

And in terms of outlook, we see modest deposit growth from here, sort of in order of magnitude say, call it, EUR 10 billion or so. And that's primarily going to come from deposit campaigns in our Private Bank in Germany as well as targeted term deposit sourcing in the Corporate Bank. So that's how I see this things shaping up for the rest of the year.

就前景而言，我們看到存款從這裡開始適度增長，數量級可以說是 100 億歐元左右。這主要來自我們德國私人銀行的存款活動以及公司銀行的有針對性的定期存款採購。這就是我對今年餘下時間的看法。

And I think your other question was on deposit betas. So realized deposit betas continue to outperform our model assumptions, although we do see this normalizing in coming quarters as the pace of interest rate rises slows.

我認為你的另一個問題是關於存款貝塔。因此，已實現的存款貝塔值繼續優於我們的模型假設，儘管隨著加息步伐放緩，我們確實看到這種情況在未來幾個季度正常化。

I'd say, in dollars, we are closer to our model assumptions, but there's still a bit of a lag effect there. And in euro, there remains a large lag, given the rate cycle developed later in Euroland than in dollars. So you still see positive tailwinds for both our deposit-taking businesses in Corporate Banking and Private Bank for the rest of the year.

我想說，以美元計算，我們更接近我們的模型假設，但那裡仍然存在一些滯後效應。而歐元仍然存在很大滯後，因為歐元區的利率週期比美元晚。因此，在今年餘下的時間裡，您仍然看到我們在企業銀行和私人銀行的存款業務都有積極的順風。

The next question is from the line of Corinne Cunningham from Autonomous.

下一個問題來自 Autonomous 的 Corinne Cunningham。

A couple from me, please. First one is just about your issuance plans. And I suppose maybe a bit more color on what went on behind the change in your thinking there. And if spreads were to tighten or normalized, should we see this change as kind of a temporary effect? Or is it something that's a bit longer term that your funding strategy overall might be altering a bit?

請給我一對。第一個是關於你的發行計劃。而且我想你的想法改變背後發生的事情可能會有更多的色彩。如果利差收緊或正常化，我們是否應該將這種變化視為一種暫時的影響？或者從長遠來看，您的整體融資策略可能會有所改變？

And then second question was on the LCR. I struggle to see a 130% ratio being the right level for Investment Bank, but I'd be really happy to have a conversation on that.

然後第二個問題是關於 LCR。我很難看到 130% 的比率是投資銀行的合適水平，但我真的很樂意就此進行對話。

And just to, I suppose, to see how -- how do you think about the LCR, going forward? How relevant it is? And I suppose, how you justify that 130% target, given what we've seen going on?

我想，只是為了看看 - 你如何看待 LCR，向前發展？它有多重要？我想，鑑於我們所看到的情況，您如何證明 130% 的目標是合理的？

And then also if you're expecting any regulatory changes that you're getting wind of anything going on behind the scenes in terms of how that might be struck, going forward?

然後，如果您期待任何監管變化，您會了解到幕後發生的任何事情，可能會受到影響，繼續前進嗎？

Thanks, Corinne. Good questions. So when we set our issuance plan, we -- generally that plan kind of gets set in sort of latter half of Q4. And we set that to allow for material growth in the balance sheet, based on kind of how we were thinking about the world over time, so robust loan growth. So now we kind of see more modest loan growth, and the reduction in our issuance is appropriate to reflect that.

謝謝，科琳娜。好問題。因此，當我們制定發行計劃時，我們通常會在第四季度後半段製定該計劃。我們將其設置為允許資產負債表的物質增長，基於我們對世界的看法隨著時間的推移，如此強勁的貸款增長。所以現在我們看到貸款增長更為溫和，而我們發行量的減少恰如其分地反映了這一點。

We are lowering our full-year issuance forecast, as mentioned, based on reduced needs, particularly in the senior nonpreferred space. And this reduced requirement means that we've essentially completed our issuance plan for the more credit-sensitive categories of issuance and therefore, have considerable flexibility regarding the timing of future issuance.

如前所述，我們正在根據減少的需求降低全年發行量預測，尤其是在高級非優先領域。而這種降低的要求意味著我們已經基本完成了我們對信用敏感類別發行的發行計劃，因此在未來發行時間方面具有相當大的靈活性。

As we were able to complete a large part of our issuance during the benign conditions we saw in early Q1, and the recent rise in our spread will not have impacted our planned funding costs, overall, this year. And in fact, we see a small aggregate benefit compared to our planned expectations.

由於我們能夠在第一季度初看到的良性條件下完成大部分發行，而且最近利差的上升不會影響我們今年總體上計劃的融資成本。事實上，與我們的計劃預期相比，我們看到的總收益很小。

We have no further capital instruments in our plan for this year, in particular, no AT1 call dates until 2025.

我們今年的計劃中沒有其他資本工具，特別是 2025 年之前沒有 AT1 贖回日期。

And so overall, we're in a comfortable position when it comes to our issuance plan and have time to wait until our [preselect] the strength or where I can feel is kind of the right sort of levels for us to be issuing again, which is part of the rationale behind the tender this morning, which is kind of -- have observed our spreads have been wider than -- have widened since March.

因此，總的來說，在我們的發行計劃方面，我們處於一個舒適的位置，並且有時間等到我們的 [preselect] 強度或我認為是我們再次發行的正確水平，這是今早投標背後的部分原因，這是一種——觀察到我們的利差已經擴大到——自 3 月以來已經擴大。

We have a bigger beta to the market now. And sort of we kind of feel we have the balance sheet flexibility to support seeing on preferred on the back of that as well.

我們現在有一個更大的市場測試版。我們有點覺得我們有資產負債表的靈活性來支持在其背後看到首選。

And then sort of LCR, it's kind of an interesting question. So our view is that the LCR clearly has value and in many respects, has been proven as a tool to ensure banks hold strong liquidity buffers and build better term structure into their liability basis.

然後是 LCR，這是一個有趣的問題。因此，我們的觀點是 LCR 顯然具有價值，並且在許多方面已被證明是確保銀行擁有強大的流動性緩衝並在其負債基礎中建立更好的期限結構的工具。

Of course, it's just one kind of stress test. And it would allow us -- I guess, from a market peer comparison perspective, it allows a little bit of apples-to-apples comparison. But I guess it's just one form of stress test.

當然，這只是壓力測試的一種。它會讓我們——我想，從市場同行比較的角度來看，它允許進行一些蘋果對蘋果的比較。但我想這只是壓力測試的一種形式。

And certainly, what -- we have many tools in our toolkit to think about our portfolio, so whether that's a variety of internal stress tests, it's around our own risk appetite framework, how we think about concentrations in various segments, in currencies, in products and tenors and also the whole funding mix as well.

當然，我們的工具包中有很多工具來考慮我們的投資組合，所以無論是各種內部壓力測試，還是圍繞我們自己的風險偏好框架，我們如何考慮不同部門、貨幣、產品和期限以及整個資金組合。

So all of these are the tools that we have, which kind of give us comfort about the level of buffer that we need to rely on as well as the ability to mobilize [cash] as and when needed.

因此，所有這些都是我們擁有的工具，這讓我們對我們需要依賴的緩沖水平以及在需要時調動 [現金] 的能力感到欣慰。

I do think that -- sure people in this call understand it, but I think -- recall -- we announced this year if our bank loses liquidity and drops to 100% ratio, it hasn't run out of liquidity. It's not insolvent or anything.

我確實認為 - 當然這次電話會議中的人都明白這一點，但我認為 - 回想一下 - 我們今年宣布，如果我們的銀行失去流動性並降至 100% 的比率，它還沒有用完流動性。這不是資不抵債或任何東西。

It's still able to withstand the full shock of the LCR stress. So the LCRs that banks are running represent considerability to withstand liquidity pressures.

它仍然能夠承受 LCR 應力的全面衝擊。因此，銀行運行的 LCR 代表了承受流動性壓力的相當大的能力。

So I guess you mentioned the IB, I guess. [Tuning] on your business model, you will run different LCR ratios, based on your own view of your -- of stresses of your deposit book.

所以我猜你提到了 IB，我猜。 [調整] 在您的業務模型上，您將根據自己對存款簿壓力的看法運行不同的 LCR 比率。

But we are a pretty well-balanced organization now, not dependent on IB for revenues as our deposit base and our liquidity is coming from Corporate Bank and Private Bank. And so sort of the investment part of it is less significant as we continue to diversify our business streams.

但我們現在是一個相當平衡的組織，不依賴 IB 作為我們的存款基礎和我們的流動性來自公司銀行和私人銀行的收入。因此，隨著我們繼續使業務流多樣化，其中的投資部分就不那麼重要了。

In terms of regulators, the -- we're aware the regulators are analyzing recent events, as they should, specifically around U.S. regional banks. And we -- as a matter, of course, I'm sure our peers will be doing the same as we're back testing kind of the shocks that we saw, they saw sort of thinking about any change to our internal stress test about how we want to think about things if that's appropriate.

就監管機構而言，我們知道監管機構正在分析最近發生的事件，他們應該這樣做，特別是圍繞美國地區性銀行。我們——當然，作為一個問題，我相信我們的同行也會做同樣的事情，因為我們正在回測我們所看到的那種衝擊，他們看到了對我們內部壓力測試的任何改變的思考如果合適的話，我們想如何考慮事情。

So yes, we're constantly analyzing whether we're adequately -- we have adequate buffers, we're comfortable kind of running them.

所以是的，我們一直在分析我們是否足夠——我們有足夠的緩衝，我們很樂意運行它們。

And so we do believe that there's fundamental differences, I guess, between the events in -- we saw in the regional U.S. bank space and in -- I guess, and in Switzerland compared to our balance sheet structure.

因此，我們確實相信，我猜，我們在美國區域銀行空間和瑞士看到的事件與我們的資產負債表結構相比存在根本差異。

And so when we think about potential regulatory changes, then it's not clear to us that tweaks to outflow assumptions will be that useful response, given the market tends to respond more to changes in the liquidity position than its absolute level.

因此，當我們考慮潛在的監管變化時，我們不清楚調整流出假設是否會是有用的反應，因為市場往往對流動性頭寸的變化做出反應，而不是其絕對水平。

And so to my mind, I think it's more important to sort of think about the overall toolkit that a bank has. And fundamentally, it comes down to that risk management capability. Do you have all the tools in your armory to be able to navigate these kind of stresses? I think we're pretty comfortable that, that is the case.

所以在我看來，我認為更重要的是考慮銀行擁有的整體工具包。從根本上說，它歸結為風險管理能力。您是否擁有能夠應對這些壓力的所有工具？我認為我們對此很滿意，就是這樣。

And I think that and our business model and risk management are fundamentally sort of what leads to confidence in the system, in us as a bank. And therefore, that's the best defense against any potential outflows. So yes, so I think that would be kind of my answer. I hopefully that answers your question, Corinne.

我認為，我們的商業模式和風險管理從根本上說是導致人們對系統、對我們銀行充滿信心的原因。因此，這是防止任何潛在資金外流的最佳方法。所以是的，所以我認為這就是我的答案。我希望這能回答你的問題，Corinne。

The next question is from the line of Lee Street from Citigroup.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的Lee Street。

I have three, please. Just the first one on the acquisition announced this morning of Numis. I suppose I was a bit surprised. Is it not a bit of a strategic U-turn?

我有三個，請。這只是今天早上宣布的收購 Numis 的第一個。我想我有點驚訝。這不是有點戰略大轉彎嗎？

It feels a bit like some of the businesses you're acquiring and things, which I suppose in the past, have been perhaps not to be sufficiently profitable or have sufficient scale. So I mean, my question is, what's changed to sort of make that now a good place to deploy capital?

感覺有點像你收購的一些企業和東西，我認為在過去，可能沒有足夠的利潤或足夠的規模。所以我的意思是，我的問題是，是什麼改變使它現在成為部署資本的好地方？

Secondly, two follow-ups really, just on deposits. So I think in response to your prior question, so am I supposed to be thinking you're basically looking to try and run the bank with about EUR [600] billion of deposits, that's sort of going to be the level you're operating around on the presumption that deposit beta is just going to remain pretty low, and therefore, that will be our sort of lowest cost source of funding you can get?

其次，真的有兩次跟進，只是關於存款。所以我想在回答你之前的問題時，我是否應該認為你基本上是想嘗試用大約 [600] 億歐元的存款來經營銀行，這將是你經營的水平假設存款 beta 將保持在很低的水平，因此，這將是我們可以獲得的最低成本的資金來源？

And then just finally on the LCR, coming back to Corinne's question. Is your argument that what you're kind of saying we should be looking more LCR, Deutsche Bank's LCR through time and its level of volatility rather than necessarily comparing Deutsche Bank's worth is another bank because behaviorally, there will be different assumptions, different business models. Is that kind of what you're suggesting? That would be my three questions.

最後在 LCR 上，回到 Corinne 的問題。你的論點是你所說的我們應該更多地關注 LCR，德意志銀行的 LCR 隨著時間的推移及其波動水平，而不是必須比較德意志銀行的價值是另一家銀行，因為在行為上，會有不同的假設，不同的商業模式.這就是你的建議嗎？那將是我的三個問題。

Thanks, Lee. It's James. I'll jump in just in the order of your questions. To talk about the Numis, I would say it's anything but a U-turn. And to think it is a U-turn is to misunderstand Numis' business as well as our global house bank strategy.

謝謝，李。是詹姆斯。我會按照你的問題的順序跳進去。要談論 Numis，我會說這絕非掉頭。認為這是一個掉頭就是誤解了 Numis 的業務以及我們的全球銀行戰略。

So what I think it is really a fabulous fit. And I'll say as a proviso, I need to restrict my comments to the information that's in the Rule 2.7 announcement today. But looking at their business, it is a corporate equity and advisory business that we think fits perfectly with our platform today that we describe as the global house bank strategy.

所以我認為它真的非常適合。我要說的是，作為附帶條件，我需要將我的評論限制在今天規則 2.7 公告中的信息。但看看他們的業務，我們認為這是一項公司股權和諮詢業務，非常適合我們今天稱之為全球銀行戰略的平台。

So it is an opportunity to significantly grow our client base in the U.K. with, frankly, very limited overlap. It's a client base that we think will benefit from access to the product capabilities that Deutsche Bank brings to the table in the combination.

因此，這是一個顯著擴大我們在英國客戶群的機會，坦率地說，重疊非常有限。我們認為，這是一個客戶群，將受益於德意志銀行在合併中帶來的產品功能。

But capitalizing, as you know, in the corporate broking structure in the U.K. on the very close relationships that are created between corporates and their brokers, which in the narrow business model, typically drives equity capital markets and also advisory transactions and fees, which, as you know, are businesses that we remain in and did after the 2019 strategy, focusing our business on a what I'll call a corporate equities platform, even as we exited the secondary institutionally focused platform at the time with that strategic decision.

但是，正如你所知，在英國的公司經紀結構中，利用公司與其經紀人之間建立的非常密切的關係，在狹義的商業模式中，這通常會推動股權資本市場以及諮詢交易和費用，其中，如您所知，我們在 2019 年戰略之後仍然保留並從事的業務是，將我們的業務重點放在我稱之為公司股票平台上，即使我們當時通過該戰略決策退出了以機構為中心的二級平台。

But given we remained focused on corporate equities, it's not at all a U-turn. And we -- and then as I say, there's the broadening of the product capabilities beyond that inside Deutsche Bank, including fixed rate products and financing capabilities and then extending beyond that to our Corporate Bank and also International Private Bank capabilities.

但鑑於我們仍然專注於企業股票，這根本不是一個大轉彎。我們——然後正如我所說，產品能力的擴展超出了德意志銀行內部的能力，包括固定利率產品和融資能力，然後擴展到我們的企業銀行和國際私人銀行能力。

So we think there's a sort of a unique marriage of the relationships on the one hand and capabilities on the other. And I'll sort of leave it at that. I think that's a good summary.

因此，我們認為一方面是關係與另一方面是能力的一種獨特結合。我就此打住。我認為這是一個很好的總結。

Just one other note, the agency brokerage that is conducted is actually also very much paired with what remains for us an agency brokerage and also research. So there really isn't an expansion of our footprint in that area either.

還有一點，進行的代理經紀實際上也與我們剩下的代理經紀和研究非常匹配。因此，我們在該地區的足跡也確實沒有擴大。

So Lee, thank you for the question, but I hope it won't be interpreted as a U-turn, it shouldn't. But we understand that at first glance, it might look like look that way.

所以李，謝謝你提出這個問題，但我希望它不會被解釋為掉頭，它不應該。但我們明白，乍一看，它可能看起來像那樣。

No, that makes sense. That's very clear.

不，這是有道理的。這很清楚。

And then, Lee, I guess, on your two other questions, I think one was around deposits. So yes, I think the 600 -- slightly north of 600 is a fair assumption, from a target perspective, for the year.

然後，李，我想，關於你的另外兩個問題，我認為一個是關於存款的。所以是的，我認為 600——略高於 600 是今年的一個合理假設，從目標的角度來看。

And then, I guess, on the LCR point, the point I was trying to make was how we think about the sort of -- the LCR is a regulatory view of the world, and it's useful, I guess, for people looking outside in to sort of go, "Okay, what are people's LCR ratios because they are broadly calculated in the same way?"

然後，我想，關於 LCR 點，我想表達的意思是我們如何思考 - LCR 是一種監管世界的觀點，我想它對人們從外面看是有用的有點像，“好吧，人們的 LCR 比率是多少，因為它們的計算方式大致相同？”

I guess what I was saying was more -- we obviously know our businesses, our clients, our products. And therefore, we know what is our own vulnerability, which we capture through our own stress test. And then we want to manage to those -- we want to make sure we have enough buffer to cover those particular businesses, and that infers an LCR number, if you like.

我想我說的更多——我們顯然了解我們的業務、我們的客戶和我們的產品。因此，我們知道我們自己的弱點是什麼，我們通過自己的壓力測試捕獲了這些弱點。然後我們想管理那些——我們想確保我們有足夠的緩衝來覆蓋這些特定的業務，並且如果你願意的話，這會推斷出一個 LCR 數字。

So that's how we kind of think about it. Obviously, we kind of managed to both. But primarily, it's around our own view of our own portfolio about where we think the vulnerabilities are and making sure that we're always in a position that we have more than sufficient buffers to manage any potential outflows.

這就是我們的想法。顯然，我們設法做到了。但主要是，它圍繞著我們對我們自己的投資組合的看法，即我們認為漏洞在哪裡，並確保我們始終處於一個位置，即我們有足夠的緩衝來管理任何潛在的資金外流。

The next question is from the line of Robert Smalley from UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的 Robert Smalley。

Another three-parter. First, just domestically in Germany, we're seeing the GDP reports slightly negative. Maybe we have a technical recession, maybe not. But certainly, the economy is flat, probably better than we thought, going into the winter. But still pretty flat.

另一個三人組。首先，就德國國內而言，我們看到 GDP 報告略顯負面。也許我們有技術性衰退，也許沒有。但可以肯定的是，經濟在進入冬季時表現平平，可能比我們想像的要好。但還是挺平的。

Could you talk a little bit about where that's going to impact asset quality domestically, certainly around the edges, both on the consumer side and on the corporate side? That's my first question.

您能否談談這將在哪些方面影響國內資產質量，當然是在邊緣，無論是在消費者方面還是在企業方面？這是我的第一個問題。

Secondly, again, to harp on deposits. You're one of the few banks, certainly one of the few large banks that charged for deposits during negative -- during the negative rate period. I would assume that in order to do that, you have a pretty close relationship with your large depositors.

其次，再次強調存款。你是為數不多的幾家銀行之一，當然也是少數幾家在負利率期間對存款收費的大型銀行之一。我假設，為了做到這一點，你與大存款人有著非常密切的關係。

Could you talk a little bit about how that informed you about what was going on with your own balance sheet during the periods of deposit uncertainty over the past month or 2? And what kind of relationships and what kind of outreach you had, and what kind of channels you had in place in order to do that?

您能否談談這如何讓您了解過去一兩個月存款不確定期間您自己的資產負債表的情況？你有什麼樣的關係和什麼樣的外展，你有什麼樣的渠道來做到這一點？

And then the third question, just on the tender. You've been known to tender before and successfully. Could you talk a little bit about some of the arithmetic that goes into that? Taking out bonds, what are you looking for in terms of savings? What are you looking for in terms of potential market reaction? And what it should do to your curve with respect to spreads? And how would you consider it a success?

然後是第三個問題，就在招標上。眾所周知，您以前曾成功投標。你能談談其中的一些算法嗎？拿出債券，你在儲蓄方面尋找什麼？就潛在的市場反應而言，您在尋找什麼？它應該對你的點差曲線做什麼？您如何看待它的成功？

Robert, it's James. Thank you for being with us, as always, and appreciate the questions. I'll take the first two and then ask Richard to talk about the liability management side.

羅伯特，是詹姆斯。感謝您一如既往地與我們在一起，並感謝您提出問題。我將接受前兩個，然後請理查德談談責任管理方面的問題。

On the German economic situation, you're right that we do see essentially a technical -- well, I can't call a recession. It's really flat now for 2 quarters, more or less. And our view is that we will have essentially zero growth in 2023 in Germany now, our sort of house economic -- economist view.

關於德國的經濟形勢，你是對的，我們確實看到了本質上的技術性——好吧，我不能稱之為衰退。現在有 2 個季度或多或少都持平。我們的觀點是，我們現在將在 2023 年實現德國的基本零增長，這是我們的內部經濟——經濟學家觀點。

If you turn the clock back now even less than a year to say August, September, I think even that performance is actually very encouraging, given the energy crisis and some of the challenges the economy was facing.

如果你現在把時鐘撥回甚至不到一年，比如八月、九月，考慮到能源危機和經濟面臨的一些挑戰，我認為即使是這樣的表現實際上也非常令人鼓舞。

So we view that to be, relatively speaking, an upside surprise. And our -- again, our house view is that Europe -- Germany, Europe will avoid a recession in late '24 going into -- the '23, going in '24, even as conditions perhaps worsen in other regions. So we're -- we have a more constructive view on the economy than perhaps 6 months ago.

因此，我們認為，相對而言，這是一個上行驚喜。我們——再一次，我們的內部觀點是，歐洲——德國，歐洲將在 24 世紀末進入——23 世紀，進入 24 世紀，即使其他地區的情況可能惡化，歐洲也將避免衰退。所以我們 - 我們對經濟的看法可能比 6 個月前更具建設性。

You're right, though, that there are some, I wouldn't call them stresses, but there are challenges worth watching around things like corporate debt service, especially in refinancing, household situations as -- the COVID runoff. And, as it was last year, higher energy prices sort of did impact households.

不過，你是對的，有一些，我不會稱它們為壓力，但圍繞企業債務償還等問題，尤其是在再融資、家庭情況等方面，存在一些值得關注的挑戰—— COVID 徑流。而且，與去年一樣，能源價格上漲確實對家庭產生了影響。

At the moment, we're not seeing, still, indicators in the forward-looking credit metrics that would suggest that is turning into a stress that would significantly impact credit. But it bears watching, for sure. And so we are watching carefully.

目前，我們仍然沒有看到前瞻性信用指標中的指標表明這種情況正在轉變為對信用產生重大影響的壓力。但它確實值得關注。所以我們正在仔細觀察。

But there's at least a path at the moment to sort of navigate through '23 and into, hopefully, more stable or growing waters in '24 without seeing a significant sort of fallout, from a credit perspective, in the German market. That's our perspective today.

但目前至少有一條路徑可以通過 23 年，並希望在 24 年進入更穩定或增長的水域，而不會從信用的角度來看對德國市場產生重大影響。這就是我們今天的觀點。

On the deposit side and the relationship with the clients, it's actually an extremely sort of penetrating question. I think that the effort over the last couple of years of negative rates and our pricing sort of policies absolutely helped us establish a sort of very close link with our clients on pricing decisions and that, that has benefited us in this environment in two ways.

在存款方面和與客戶的關係上，其實是一個非常尖銳的問題。我認為過去幾年的負利率和我們的定價政策絕對幫助我們在定價決策上與客戶建立了一種非常密切的聯繫，並且在這種環境下以兩種方式使我們受益。

One is the way you suggest, which is we're able to make sort of micro pricing adjustments from a client relationship, liquidity preservation perspective, and have been very attuned between the businesses, the business coverage and also treasury on how to calibrate that, which has been very helpful.

一種是你建議的方式，我們能夠從客戶關係、流動性保護的角度進行微觀定價調整，並且在業務、業務範圍和財務部門之間就如何校準這一點進行了非常協調，這非常有幫助。

And then in a second respect, what you didn't see was a lot of deposits flowing into the bank in the period, where liquidity was perhaps excessive in the marketplace.

然後在第二個方面，你沒有看到那個時期大量的存款流入銀行，市場上的流動性可能是過剩的。

So we're not dealing -- if you look at our deposit growth over the last several years, it's below the industry as we -- as our pricing sort of wasn't attracting new money as much. And that's meant that if you're with Deutsche Bank, it's because you have a good relationship, you value the services not because we're the leading price opportunity as a source or as a destination for your deposits.

所以我們沒有交易——如果你看看我們過去幾年的存款增長，它低於我們的行業——因為我們的定價有點沒有吸引新的資金。這意味著，如果您在德意志銀行工作，那是因為您擁有良好的關係，您重視服務，而不是因為我們作為您存款的來源或目的地是領先的價格機會。

And I think that serves us well in an environment where we're adjusting now to a different liquidity regime, frankly, based on central bank policy actions.

我認為，在我們現在正在根據中央銀行的政策行動調整到不同的流動性制度的環境中，這對我們很有幫助。

So it's a very good question, and we feel really good about the way we've been able to develop that connectivity with our clients and the -- as well as the internal connectivity on deposit pricing.

所以這是一個很好的問題，我們對我們能夠與客戶建立這種聯繫的方式以及 - 以及存款定價的內部聯繫感到非常滿意。

So I guess, on the tender, so in this instance, it was -- the -- how we think about it is we've obviously, we've been in a blackout period, but the curve -- so the bond curve has been inverted, I guess, ever since mid-March, which we kind of feel is -- really reflects the sort of the real default probability of Deutsche Bank over the next couple of years.

所以我想，在招標中，所以在這種情況下，它是 - 我們的想法是我們顯然，我們一直處於停電期，但曲線 - 所以債券曲線有我想，自 3 月中旬以來，我們的感覺是——真正反映了德意志銀行在未來幾年的真實違約概率。

So we kind of felt that, that plus how we see some our callable instruments and bullet instruments are kind of being priced that it doesn't seem right to us.

所以我們有點覺得，加上我們如何看待我們的一些可調用工具和子彈工具的定價，這對我們來說似乎不合適。

And because we have the balance sheet flexibility and liquidity, then we can hope that we should test the waters to see how -- see if we can -- if you can sort of buy those bonds at the levels of the market we're offering and see if people think that the curve should be inverted or actually should be more positively sloping.

而且因為我們擁有資產負債表的靈活性和流動性，所以我們可以希望我們應該試水看看如何——看看我們是否可以——你是否可以在我們提供的市場水平上購買這些債券看看人們是否認為曲線應該倒轉，或者實際上應該傾斜得更正。

So I think in terms of how I think about success, it will be -- if we see the curve shape kind of normalize.

所以我認為，就我對成功的看法而言，這將是——如果我們看到曲線形狀正常化。

And then in terms of -- when we think about sort of the risk and reward of these things in terms of savings, then there'll be some safe funding costs on the tendered bonds and then also sort of the spread value, which we hope to see on the back of this, which allows future issuance to be cheaper, as already commented upon.

然後就-當我們從儲蓄的角度考慮這些事情的風險和回報時，投標債券會有一些安全的融資成本，然後還有我們希望的利差價值看看這背後的情況，正如已經評論過的那樣，這使得未來的發行成本更低。

Then our issuance is going to be in the more senior part of the capital structure for this year. It Is our intention and the amount we issue is also going to reduce this year. Hopefully that answered your question.

然後我們的發行將在今年的資本結構中處於更高級的部分。這是我們的意圖，我們今年發行的數量也將減少。希望這回答了你的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question is from the line of Anke Reingen from RBC.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 RBC 的 Anke Reingen。

I hope it fits for -- on the fixed income call. Just firstly, on -- I mean there's obviously a lot of debate -- focus on the bank lending survey as well next week and the fact that banks might tighten their lending conditions. And in light of this, obviously, you reduced your funding need for this year, and you mentioned less demand.

我希望它適合 - 在固定收益電話會議上。首先，關於——我的意思是顯然有很多爭論——關注下週的銀行貸款調查以及銀行可能收緊貸款條件的事實。鑑於此，很明顯，您減少了今年的資金需求，並且您提到需求減少。

But would you think that's also like less supply from loans on your side, given the somewhat more challenging economic outlook or higher funding costs?

但是，鑑於更具挑戰性的經濟前景或更高的融資成本，您是否認為這也像是您這邊的貸款供應減少？

And then secondly, you used the word targeted deposit sourcing in Corporate Banking. Can you maybe a bit more precise because I guess from your comments, it didn't imply you would price up for deposits?

其次，您在企業銀行業務中使用了目標存款來源這個詞。你能不能更準確一點，因為我從你的評論中猜測，這並不意味著你會為存款定價？

I'll let Richard answer the questions, but I just want to say, absolutely, welcome to the call. And we had a fixed income call on yesterday's equity call, which means we're delighted to have in both fora.

我會讓理查德回答問題，但我只想說，當然，歡迎來電。我們在昨天的股票電話會議上進行了固定收益電話會議，這意味著我們很高興能參加這兩個論壇。

So I think in terms of our growth, so we're still planning on loan growth for the remainder of the year, just not as large as it was, but I think that's just more not driven necessarily by anything in particular. I think it's just when you do a planning process, then you obviously sort of are optimistic about that to make sure you have the capacity if clients come in.

所以我認為就我們的增長而言，我們仍在計劃今年剩餘時間的貸款增長，只是沒有以前那麼大，但我認為這不一定是由任何特別的事情驅動的。我認為只是當你進行規劃過程時，你顯然對此持樂觀態度，以確保在客戶進來時你有能力。

But as we sort of go through the year, then you get better visibility on that. And so that was kind of what drove this sort of the issuance plans in the first place. And now, as discussed earlier, we now are just adjusting those.

但隨著我們經歷這一年，你會更好地了解這一點。因此，這首先是推動此類發行計劃的原因。現在，如前所述，我們現在只是在調整這些。

So I think that's kind of part one. But I think you're right. I think we were thinking in sort of this, for example, the mortgage origination space, perhaps that might slow later on this year.

所以我認為這是第一部分。但我認為你是對的。我認為我們正在考慮這個問題，例如抵押貸款發放空間，也許今年晚些時候可能會放緩。

And then I think on the Corporate Bank, in terms of deposits, so we're talking about -- primarily I guess what you're asking was in terms of being the best price and price competition, we didn't feel a need to be overly competitive during March, along with, I guess, some of the pricing competition pressures that we saw.

然後我認為在企業銀行方面，就存款而言，所以我們正在談論 - 我想你主要問的是最好的價格和價格競爭，我們覺得沒有必要3 月份競爭過於激烈，我想，還有我們看到的一些定價競爭壓力。

But I think the Corporate Bank, I think, for certain types of deposits, for certain types of clients, if that's -- then we are looking at campaigns where we can source deposits as they come due.

但我認為公司銀行，我認為，對於某些類型的存款，對於某些類型的客戶，如果是 - 那麼我們正在研究可以在到期時獲取存款的活動。

So I think, in general, we don't want to be the best bid in the market. But at the same time, obviously, we do want to make sure that we keep the client deposits that we need in the Corporate Bank.

所以我認為，總的來說，我們不想成為市場上最好的出價。但與此同時，顯然，我們確實希望確保我們將所需的客戶存款保留在公司銀行中。

Our next question is from the line of [Stephan Sushi] from Point72.

我們的下一個問題來自 Point72 的 [Stephan Sushi]。

The first one is to follow up on this question on Numis. Why not contemplating an increased share buyback instead of buying Numis? Why is this option versus an increased share buyback because you try discount versus book value? I mean, could it have been a compelling proposition so far for shareholders?

第一個是在 Numis 上跟進這個問題。為什麼不考慮增加股票回購而不是購買 Numis？為什麼這個選項與增加的股票回購相比，因為你嘗試折扣與賬面價值？我的意思是，到目前為止，這對股東來說可能是一個令人信服的提議嗎？

Secondly, to follow up on yesterday's question, what's the LCR ratio without the TLTRO, if I may ask? And lastly, in terms of capital build, what should be the steady-state capital build for the bank? Can we annualize the [30] bps we had in Q1, going forward? How should we think about it in a steady state, if I may?

其次，跟進昨天的問題，如果我可以問，沒有 TLTRO 的 LCR 比率是多少？最後，在資本建設方面，銀行的穩態資本建設應該是什麼？我們可以將第一季度的 [30] 個基點年化嗎？如果可以的話，我們應該如何在穩定狀態下考慮它？

So Stephan, it's James. I'll probably take the first and third. Richard may want to add on that, and I'll leave the LCR to him.

斯蒂芬，是詹姆斯。我可能會拿第一和第三。 Richard 可能想補充一點，我將把 LCR 留給他。

So we don't think a buyback and this acquisition are mutually exclusive. So as we said yesterday, we are intending to pursue a buyback. I don't think capital necessarily is zero sum. And at the impact in terms of our ratios at 9 basis points, we think this represents a good investment for the group, also compared to a buyback, frankly. But again, it's not either, or. In a sense, it's both.

所以我們不認為回購和這次收購是相互排斥的。因此，正如我們昨天所說，我們打算進行回購。我認為資本不一定是零和。坦率地說，就我們的比率 9 個基點的影響而言，我們認為這對集團來說是一項很好的投資，與回購相比也是如此。但同樣，它不是，或者。從某種意義上說，兩者兼而有之。

And we look forward to the incremental earnings power that the capital we're deploying into the Numis transaction will produce. So I think that on the item.

我們期待著我們部署到 Numis 交易中的資本將產生的增量盈利能力。所以我認為在這個項目上。

If I mention, what I meant was -- I did not express myself correctly. What I meant is instead of doing, let's say, for the sake of argument, the EUR 400 million buyback for the year, you could have made, without this acquisition, an EUR 800 million buyback. So that's the data I'm referring to. Why not increasing potentially the buyback you're planning for the year is what I meant.

如果我提到，我的意思是——我沒有正確表達自己。我的意思是，比方說，為了爭論起見，今年 4 億歐元的回購，如果沒有這次收購，你本可以進行 8 億歐元的回購。這就是我所指的數據。我的意思是為什麼不增加你今年計劃的回購。

Yes. No, I understand. But it presumes that an EUR 800 million buyback would have been appropriate in terms of our -- the capital path and plan that we've set out. And therefore, we think the balance that we're achieving here in terms of deployment is a good balance, bearing in mind the here and now.

是的。不，我明白。但它假定 8 億歐元的回購就我們制定的資本路徑和計劃而言是合適的。因此，我們認為我們在部署方面取得的平衡是一個很好的平衡，同時牢記此時此地。

And we understand our investors' desire to see us repurchase shares, especially at today's valuations, but balanced also with the need to invest to deliver returns in the future. And hence, we think, at this balance, it makes good sense for the firm and for our shareholders.

我們理解投資者希望看到我們回購股票的願望，尤其是在今天的估值下，但也要與投資以在未來實現回報的需要相平衡。因此，我們認為，在這種平衡下，這對公司和我們的股東來說都是有意義的。

In terms of capital generation, I don't -- it's a little bit too forward-looking to necessarily provide a view on basis points of capital generation per quarter. But obviously, with the earnings growth that we have laid out, and it's the product of the transformation that we've gone through over the past several years.

在資本產生方面，我不——它有點太前瞻性了，不一定提供每季度資本產生基點的觀點。但顯然，隨著我們已經佈局的盈利增長，這是我們過去幾年經歷的轉型的產物。

We've gone from being a firm that generated relatively little organic capital and, frankly, needed to deploy most of that capital into the impact of regulatory changes that were flowing through the system and also the transformation charges to now generating capital that we can deploy in a series of ways, one of which is returning to the shareholders, which we obviously prioritize.

我們已經從一家產生相對較少有機資本的公司，坦率地說，需要將大部分資本部署到流經系統的監管變化的影響以及轉型費用到現在產生我們可以部署的資本通過一系列方式，其中之一是回報股東，我們顯然將其放在首位。

Obviously, we also need to support organic business growth. And there is a sort of one more cycle, if you like, of significant regulatory build that we need to be able to fund from our organic capabilities or organic capital generation through to January '25.

顯然，我們還需要支持有機業務增長。如果你願意，還有一個循環，我們需要能夠從我們的有機能力或有機資本生成中資助到 25 年 1 月的重要監管建設。

And so all of those things are built into our capital plan. All of those features are -- can be supported with the EUR 5 billion and then EUR 8 billion return that we've talked about. We're very comfortable we have the space to deliver on those promises and deploy that internal capital generation in a way that creates substantial value for our shareholders.

因此，所有這些都納入了我們的資本計劃。所有這些功能都是——可以得到我們談到的 50 億歐元和 80 億歐元回報的支持。我們很高興我們有空間來兌現這些承諾，並以一種為我們的股東創造可觀價值的方式部署內部資本生成。

I guess, Stephan, I guess on the TLTRO, so in Q1, we repaid EUR 8 billion. So that brings a total to EUR 19 billion that we've repaid now. So we have about EUR [11] billion to repay by the end of the year. So EUR 3 billion to EUR 4 billion a quarter, so all very manageable.

我猜，斯蒂芬，我猜是在 TLTRO 上，所以在第一季度，我們償還了 80 億歐元。因此，我們現在已經償還的總額達到 190 億歐元。因此，到年底我們有大約 [11] 億歐元需要償還。所以每季度 30 億至 40 億歐元，所以都非常易於管理。

So year-end, all things being equal, we have a 143% LCR right now. If you just look at the TLTRO repayments this year, then down to 136 kind of number on the LCR, if that was your question.

所以到年底，在所有條件相同的情況下，我們現在的 LCR 為 143%。如果你只看今年的 TLTRO 還款，那麼 LCR 上的數字會下降到 136 種，如果這是你的問題。

Next question is from the line of James Hyde from PGIM.

下一個問題來自 PGIM 的 James Hyde。

Just more a technical question on the request. So most banks, I think you and Barclays are the only two that don't separate these things, report separate interbank and separate customer deposits. But you have this one line, which obviously fell by EUR 30 billion.

關於請求的更多技術問題。所以大多數銀行，我認為你和巴克萊是僅有的兩家不將這些東西分開的銀行，報告單獨的銀行間存款和單獨的客戶存款。但是你有這一條線，它顯然下降了 300 億歐元。

And I mean, never been able to work out how much is into bank. I mean the only proxy that I have is to add up the segmental numbers of the 3 segments other than Asset Management. And if I do that, it's quite a less drastic picture, it's actually just down 1.5%.

我的意思是，從來無法計算出有多少存入銀行。我的意思是，我擁有的唯一代理是將資產管理以外的 3 個部門的部門編號相加。如果我這樣做，情況就不那麼劇烈了，實際上只下降了 1.5%。

So I don't know if that is a customer number rather than the inter bank that's EUR 534 billion versus the total reported deposits of 592. So I mean, it'd just be useful to be in alignment with other banks, or am I looking at this wrong way? I know that repos go into different places on different balance sheets.

所以我不知道這是否是一個客戶數量，而不是 5340 億歐元的銀行間存款，而不是 592 歐元的報告存款總額。所以我的意思是，與其他銀行保持一致會很有用，或者我是看著這個錯誤的方式？我知道回購在不同的資產負債表上進入不同的地方。

But is taking the 3 sort of non-asset management divisions deposits the way to look at your customer deposits? And why don't you report like other banks?

但是拿3種非資管部門存款的方式來看你的客戶存款呢？你為什麼不像其他銀行那樣報告？

It's interesting question. I don't think there's anything particularly that we're looking to hide. But repos, for example, are not part of our deposit numbers. And we have about 82 billion deposits from banks, but there's no repo in there, if that your question.

這是個有趣的問題。我認為沒有什麼特別需要我們隱藏的。但是，例如，回購不屬於我們存款數量的一部分。我們有大約 820 億來自銀行的存款，但如果這是你的問題，那裡沒有回購。

Yes, I guess that's -- yes. So I mean that's just not a number you see on the face of balance sheet, that's why I just wondered. And is that -- how did that move, that 82?

是的，我想那是——是的。所以我的意思是這不是你在資產負債表上看到的數字，這就是我想知道的原因。那是——那個 82 是怎麼移動的？

Let me just have a check on that.

讓我檢查一下。

Especially from mid-March to end March as well?

尤其是從三月中旬到三月底？

I think it's not a number -- I actually have two hands, so I'm going to have to come back to you through the Investor Relations after the call, if that's okay.

我認為這不是一個數字——我實際上有兩隻手，所以我將不得不在電話會議後通過投資者關係部回复你，如果可以的話。

Yes. I just want to make a point just to understand why you don't report customer and -- like other banks do, that's also... thanks anyway.

是的。我只是想說明一點，只是為了理解為什麼您不報告客戶，而且 - 就像其他銀行一樣，這也是......無論如何謝謝。

So there are no further questions at this time, and I hand back to Philip Teuchner for closing comments.

所以現在沒有其他問題了，我把結束意見交還給 Philip Teuchner。

Thank you, Natalie. And just to finish up, thank you all for joining us today. You know where the IR team is if you have any further questions, and we look forward to talking to you soon again. Goodbye.

謝謝你，娜塔莉。最後，感謝大家今天加入我們。如果您有任何其他問題，您知道 IR 團隊在哪裡，我們期待很快再次與您交談。再見。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded, and you may disconnect. Thank you very much for joining, and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.

女士們先生們，會議現已結束，你們可以斷開聯繫了。非常感謝您的加入，祝您度過愉快的一天。再見。