塞拉尼斯 (CE) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Celanese Q4 2024 earnings call and webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加塞拉尼斯 2024 年第四季財報電話會議和網路廣播。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to introduce Bill Cunningham, Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you. You may begin.

現在我很高興介紹投資者關係副總裁比爾‧坎寧安 (Bill Cunningham)。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Thanks, Daryl. Welcome to the Celanese Corporation fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. My name is Bill Cunningham, Vice President of Investor Relations. With me today on the call are Scott Richardson, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Chuck Kyrish, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝，達裡爾。歡迎參加塞拉尼斯公司 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。我叫比爾‧坎寧安 (Bill Cunningham)，是投資人關係副總裁。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有總裁兼執行長 Scott Richardson 和財務長 Chuck Kyrish。

Celanese distributed its fourth quarter earnings release via Business Wire and posted prepared comments and a summary presentation of key 2025 actions on our Investor Relations website yesterday afternoon.

塞拉尼斯透過商業電訊發布了第四季度收益報告，並於昨天下午在我們的投資者關係網站上發布了準備好的評論和 2025 年關鍵行動的摘要介紹。

As a reminder, we'll discuss non-GAAP financial measures today. You can find definitions of these measures as well as reconciliations to the comparable GAAP measures on our website. Today's presentation will also include forward-looking statements. Please review the cautionary language regarding forward-looking statements, which can be found at the end of both the press release and the prepared comments. Form 8-K reports containing all of these materials, have also been submitted to the SEC.

提醒一下，我們今天將討論非公認會計準則財務指標。您可以在我們的網站上找到這些指標的定義以及與可比較 GAAP 指標的對帳。今天的演講還將包括前瞻性陳述。請查看有關前瞻性陳述的警告性語言，可以在新聞稿和準備好的評論的末尾找到。包含所有這些資料的 8-K 表格報告也已提交給美國證券交易委員會。

Before we open it up for questions, I'd like to turn the call over to Scott Richardson for some opening remarks.

在我們開始提問之前，我想先請 Scott Richardson 發表一些開場白。

Thanks, Bill, and good morning, everyone. I strongly believe Celanese is a company that has cash generation, productivity and cost reduction in its DNA. These core competencies have driven shareholder value over our 20 years as a public company.

謝謝，比爾，大家早安。我堅信塞拉尼斯是一家以創造現金、提高生產效率、降低成本為核心的公司。在我們擔任上市公司的20年裡，這些核心競爭力推動了股東價值的提升。

We are keenly focused on invigorating and capitalizing on these foundational capabilities in how we lead and drive business every day to improve performance and drive value creation. My first two months as CEO have been about prioritizing and driving action.

我們非常注重激發和利用這些基礎能力，以引領和推動日常業務，從而提高績效並推動價值創造。我擔任執行長的頭兩個月一直致力於確定優先事項和推動行動。

Decisive steps we have taken to date include the following. We have executed on over $75 million worth of cost actions that we outlined in our Q3 earnings call. We have reduced our 2025 capital plan to $300 million to $350 million, which is about a $100 million reduction versus our spend last year. We have added a new leader to the Engineered Materials business, Todd Elliott to bring a fresh perspective and new energy to reducing complexity and driving improved results.

我們迄今採取的決定性措施包括以下內容。我們已經執行了在第三季財報電話會議上概述的價值超過 7500 萬美元的成本行動。我們已將 2025 年資本計畫削減至 3 億美元至 3.5 億美元，與去年的支出相比減少了約 1 億美元。我們為工程材料業務增添了一位新領導者，托德·埃利奧特 (Todd Elliott)，他將為降低複雜性和推動改善結果帶來新的視角和新的活力。

We have added Chris Kuehn and Scott Sutton to our Board of Directors to bring additional finance and operational expertise to our boardrooms, given the prioritization of cash generation, margin expansion, productivity and deleveraging. And we have added a finance and business review committee to the Board of Directors, which Scott Sutton and I will jointly chair. This committee will help evaluate all options to improve the company's operating model performance, drive cash generation and review our portfolio.

我們已將 Chris Kuehn 和 Scott Sutton 添加到我們的董事會，為我們的董事會帶來額外的財務和營運專業知識，因為我們優先考慮現金創造、利潤率擴大、生產力和去槓桿。我們在董事會中增加了一個財務和業務審查委員會，由史考特·薩頓和我共同擔任主席。該委員會將協助評估所有改善公司營運模式績效、推動現金產生和審查我們投資組合的方案。

We are taking the right steps to accelerate shareholder value creation and restore our performance at top decile levels in the industry. We are moving forward with intensity and aggressiveness and are not hesitating to make bold changes to generate cash and deleverage the balance sheet. We know the journey in front of us is not an easy one, but we are energized by the opportunity ahead.

我們正在採取正確的措施，加速為股東創造價值，並恢復我們在行業中的前十分之一的表現。我們正在全力以赴、積極進取地向前邁進，毫不猶豫地做出大膽的改變，以產生現金並降低資產負債表的槓桿率。我們知道，前面的路途並不輕鬆，但前方的機會讓我們充滿活力。

We will share wins, no matter the size, as we progress in the coming months. And I look forward to reporting on our progress as we advance our plans to improve performance and drive value creation. Thank you. And now, Daryl, let's open the line for questions.

在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將分享勝利，無論其大小。我期待著報告我們在推動提高績效和推動價值創造計劃過程中取得的進展。謝謝。現在，達裡爾，讓我們開始提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

David Begleiter, Deutsche Bank.

大衛‧貝格萊特，德意志銀行。

Scott, you mentioned some divestitures in the prepared comments. Could you get some sense of potentially the size of these divestitures and when they might occur?

斯科特，你在準備好的評論中提到了一些資產剝離。您能否了解這些資產剝離的潛在規模以及可能發生的時間？

Yes. Thanks, David. We've been working aggressively on divestitures for some time now. And we did a transaction a few years ago with the Food Ingredients business. And I would look at -- most of what we're looking at is kind of around that size, some smaller, some maybe slightly a little bit bigger than that. But that's kind of the right range to look at kind of the opportunities that we have.

是的。謝謝，大衛。一段時間以來，我們一直在積極地進行資產剝離。幾年前，我們與食品配料公司進行了交易。我會觀察——我們所觀察的大部分物體都差不多這個尺寸，有些更小，有些可能比這個尺寸稍微大一點。但這是我們審視所擁有的機會的正確範圍。

And one more thing, I know equity raise is not your first choice. But given this what the balance sheet is today, what are your thoughts on potentially raising equity at some point to help delever the balance sheet?

還有一件事，我知道股權融資不是你的首選。但考慮到目前的資產負債表狀況，您認為在某個時候增加股權以幫助降低資產負債表的槓桿率有何想法？

Our capital structure is to fund our acquisitions with debt. In addition, we're unlocking cash from actions we've taken on the dividend, reduction in CapEx, reducing working capital, and we're aggressively working divestitures, as I just talked about. Look, equity is extremely dilutive and we don't believe that's a step that's necessary given the strength of the debt market.

我們的資本結構是透過債務來為我們的收購提供資金。此外，正如我剛才提到的，我們正在透過派發股息、減少資本支出、減少營運資本等行動釋放現金，我們正在積極進行資產剝離。你看，股權具有極強的稀釋性，考慮到債務市場的強勁，我們認為這不是必要的一步。

Yes, David, I can add to that. Look, as Scott mentioned, we're taking numerous actions to reduce leverage. But what you're also going to see us continue to do in the meantime is be proactive in reducing the risk in our debt maturities.

是的，大衛，我可以補充這一點。正如史考特所提到的，我們正在採取多種措施來降低槓桿。但同時，您也會看到我們繼續積極主動地降低債務到期風險。

We have a plan, and we've prepared to access the debt markets quickly and opportunistically, and the credit markets are very strong right now. The principles around that are going to be to extend a portion of our more near-term maturities, aligning what remains with our cash generation. And we'll make sure we do that at a prudent and reasonable cost.

我們有一個計劃，我們已經準備好迅速、適時地進入債務市場，目前信貸市場非常強勁。圍繞這一目標的原則是延長部分近期到期債務，使剩餘債務與我們的現金產生保持一致。我們將確保以審慎、合理的成本做到這一點。

Frank Mitsch, Fermium Research.

弗蘭克米奇，費米研究中心。

I want to dive into your outlook for the first half of the year. As you talked about the second quarter, you indicated that it wouldn't have the $100 million of non-repeating items that are impacting the first quarter. And yet, if I look at the dollar increase expected versus the first quarter, that only implies like $20 million or so of improvement from volumes and SG&A, et cetera, which, frankly, looking at 2Q versus 1Q, that really doesn't seem like that much. Can you help explain some of the thinking there?

我想深入了解您對今年上半年的展望。正如您談到第二季時所說，第二季不會出現影響第一季的 1 億美元非重複項目。然而，如果我看一下與第一季相比預期的美元增長，那隻意味著交易量和銷售、一般及行政費用等將增加 2000 萬美元左右，坦白說，將第二季度與第一季度進行比較，這似乎並沒有那麼多。您能幫忙解釋一下其中的一些想法嗎？

Yes. Thanks, Frank. Look, we're getting some of that here at the end of the first quarter in that number, not a lot, but a little bit. And so that incremental in the second quarter is about that rate -- range you talked about. There's -- most will be on the run rate in the second quarter, certainly to get to the full kind of $80 million that we called out, and we're continuing to work additional actions.

是的。謝謝，弗蘭克。你看，我們在第一季末就得到了一些這樣的數字，不是很多，但有一點。因此，第二季的增量大約就是您談到的那個範圍。大部分資金將在第二季度按計劃完成，肯定會達到我們所說的 8000 萬美元，而且我們正在繼續採取更多行動。

So look, it's really important that we look at what we see right in front of us and be transparent with that. We're working a number of other actions to lift not just the back half of the year but also work. We can get more in Q1, we're going to do it, and we're going to do everything we can to make that Q2 number bigger than that dollar you called out.

所以，看一看，我們真正需要做的就是看清眼前的事物，並保持透明。我們正在採取一系列其他措施，不僅是為了提升下半年的業績，也是為了提升工作效率。我們可以在第一季獲得更多，我們會這樣做，並且我們會盡一切努力使第二季度的數字大於您所說的美元。

Got you. And then the other thing in the prepared remarks was a comment that free cash flow for 2025 is expected to be higher than 2024. I'm curious if you can kind of go through kind of order of magnitude that the Street should be thinking about and how do you get there?

明白了。然後，準備好的評論中的另一件事是，預計 2025 年的自由現金流將高於 2024 年。我很好奇，您是否可以大致了解華爾街應該考慮的數量級，以及如何實現這一目標？

Well, Frank, we haven't given the guide for earnings at this point in time for the year. But what I wanted to lay out are components and free cash flow below the EBITDA line that we do expect to improve significantly year-over-year, right? So working capital was a use of cash last year, expected to be a source of cash.

嗯，弗蘭克，我們還沒有給出今年目前的獲利指南。但我想指出的是，我們確實預計 EBITDA 線以下的組件和自由現金流將比去年同期大幅改善，對嗎？因此，營運資金是去年現金的使用，預計將成為現金來源。

Cash tax will be significantly lower. We've lowered CapEx, roughly $100 million, right? So those -- before giving a guide for earnings as we're kind of working through several things, I just wanted to lay out areas in free cash that will improve year-over-year below EBITDA.

現金稅將大幅降低。我們已經降低了資本支出，大約 1 億美元，對嗎？因此，在給出盈利指南之前，由於我們正在研究幾個問題，我只是想列出自由現金中將逐年改善的領域，低於 EBITDA。

Jeff Zekauskas, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Jeff Zekauskas。

Scott Sutton has been brought into the Board of Celanese. I was wondering, Scott, if you played a role in bringing him in or what role you played in Scott coming to the Board?

斯科特·薩頓 (Scott Sutton) 已加入塞拉尼斯董事會。斯科特，我想知道您是否在引進他的過程中發揮了作用，或者您在斯科特加入董事會的過程中發揮了什麼作用？

Scott and I have known each other for a long time, and I'm thrilled that Scott has agreed to join the Board. I think we have been on a path as a Board that's been very deliberate in how we refresh the Board with capabilities that are going to help us navigate the landscape that we're in. And Scott's the latest add in that.

我和史考特認識很久了，我很高興史考特同意加入董事會。我認為，作為董事會，我們一直在慎重考慮如何更新董事會的能力，以幫助我們應對當前的情況。斯科特 (Scott) 是最新加入的。

And he brings unique capabilities and has a track record of accelerating cash generation, deleveraging, value creation, and I'm really excited that he's going to help us in this journey.

他擁有獨特的能力，並且在加速現金生成、去槓桿、價值創造方面有著良好的記錄，我很高興他能在這過程中為我們提供幫助。

Second question is, in your prepared remarks, what you said was that over time, you reduced costs associated with the M&M acquisition by about $250 million. And then later in the script, what you say is that there's been competitive dynamics in your largest product lines like nylon, which offset year-over-year improvements made to the cost position as well as lower raw materials and manufacturing footprint, cost reduction.

第二個問題是，在您準備好的發言中，您說的是，隨著時間的推移，您將與 M&M 收購相關的成本減少了約 2.5 億美元。然後在腳本的後面，您說的是，您最大的產品線（例如尼龍）中存在競爭動態，這抵消了成本狀況的逐年改善以及原材料和製造足蹟的降低，從而降低了成本。

So when you look at the M&M business from the time that you acquired it, like where do we stand now? Is the EBITDA really no different because price degradation has offset all of the cost improvement? Or can you give us like -- where did we start and where are we now with the M&M acquisition?

那麼，當您從收購 M&M 業務的那一刻起回顧它時，我們現在處於什麼位置？EBITDA 真的沒有什麼不同嗎？因為價格下降已經抵銷了所有的成本改善？或者您能否告訴我們—我們從哪裡開始，以及 M&M 收購現在進展到什麼程度？

Yes. We're -- we have increased the EBITDA from M&M when you look at the synergies versus where it was when we closed the transaction, Jeff. And we have seen margin degradation in some product lines within the M&M portfolio. We've also seen some margin degradation in some of the product lines in the historical Celanese portfolio.

是的。傑夫，當你看到協同效應時，我們發現 M&M 的 EBITDA 比我們完成交易時有所增加。我們發現 M&M 產品組合中某些產品線的利潤率有所下降。我們也發現塞拉尼斯歷史產品組合中的一些產品線的利潤率有所下降。

We've also seen several product lines that have expanded margin. This is a critical area of focus for us this year. Reversing this margin compression that we've seen broadly across the standard part of the EM portfolio is a critical action for us that we need to deliver on to kind of lift the second half of the year.

我們也看到幾條產品線的利潤率有所擴大。這是我們今年重點關注的領域。扭轉我們在新興市場投資組合的標準部分普遍看到的利潤率壓縮趨勢對我們來說是一項關鍵行動，我們需要繼續努力來提升下半年的表現。

Michael Sison, Wells Fargo.

麥可西森，富國銀行。

Maybe a follow-up on M&M. Could you maybe just give us your thoughts on -- is this a good business for Celanese, longer term? I mean, what do you think the potential is here? And how do you sort of get it there? And I suspect there's some macro help that you'll need there. But just what is the potential for M&M now going forward?

也許是 M&M 的後續。您能否談談您的看法—從長遠來看，這對塞拉尼斯來說是一門好生意嗎？我的意思是，您認為這裡的潛力是什麼？那你怎麼才能把它送到那裡呢？我懷疑您會需要一些巨集幫助。但 M&M 未來的潛力究竟有多大？

Yes. Thanks, Mike. I mean, we've seen some challenges, but we've also seen some strength in several of the businesses. I mean, our high-temp nylon portfolio that we acquired with the business has been a nice source of growth for us in electric vehicle applications with things like superior thermal shock characteristics in certain application areas.

是的。謝謝，麥克。我的意思是，我們看到了一些挑戰，但我們也看到了一些業務的優勢。我的意思是，我們透過這項業務獲得的高溫尼龍產品組合已經成為我們在電動車應用領域的一個很好的成長來源，因為它在某些應用領域具有出色的抗熱衝擊特性。

We have also seen kind of the elastomeric products that we acquired have been -- have given us kind of a new growth platform in athletic apparel and footwear that we didn't have before. So there are really nice pockets of opportunity for us, and we've got to go really aggressively work that from a project pipeline standpoint.

我們也看到，我們收購的彈性體產品為我們在運動服裝和鞋類領域提供了一個以前從未有過的新成長平台。因此，對我們來說確實存在著很好的機會，我們必須從專案管道的角度積極地進行工作。

And then there are good parts of the nylon portfolio as well. And so we've got to keep kind of keeping this machine moving from a pipeline standpoint, and we've also got to make sure that we aggressively work the cost side of the equation, just given where the fundamental macro is at.

尼龍產品組合中也有不錯的部分。因此，從管道的角度來看，我們必須讓這台機器保持運轉，而且我們還必須確保積極地處理成本問題，因為基本宏觀經濟處於什麼位置。

Got it. And then most folks haven't given an outlook for the full year '25, I understand that. But should EBITDA be better in the second half versus the first half? And maybe if you don't have specifics, what should be better or could be better in the second half in terms of the walk for a better EBITDA?

知道了。我知道大多數人還沒有對 25 年全年做出展望。但下半年的 EBITDA 應該比上半年更好嗎？也許如果您沒有具體細節，那麼在實現更好的 EBITDA 方面，下半年應該做些什麼或可以做些什麼呢？

And then can you just give us your general thoughts on what the economic backdrop we should think about in '25 for Celanese?

那麼，您能否給我們談談塞拉尼斯 25 年的經濟背景應該如何考慮的總體看法？

Our focus is on moving with urgency, Mike, to take decisive actions to be able to drive wins. The actions that we're taking, we believe will be unique for us to drive value in the out quarters here. We talked about the complexity reduction, $50 million to $100 million of opportunity in EM. We need to make sure that we're fully leveraging the acetyls optionality model, which was challenging in the second half of last year.

麥克，我們的重點是緊急行動，採取果斷行動，以取得勝利。我們相信，我們正在採取的行動對於我們在外部季度推動價值具有獨特意義。我們討論了複雜性的降低，EM 中存在 5000 萬到 1 億美元的機會。我們需要確保充分利用乙醯基可選模型，這在去年下半年是一個挑戰。

Historically, we've been able to drive good value by flexing up and down the value chain there. And the third is getting back to this point I just talked about on reversing margin compression in both the standard parts of the Engineered Materials portfolio but also in the Acetyls business.

從歷史上看，我們能夠透過在價值鏈中上下移動來實現良好的價值。第三點，回到我剛才談到的扭轉工程材料產品組合標準部分和乙醯基業務利潤率壓縮的這一點。

Ghansham Panjabi, Baird.

甘沙姆·潘賈比，貝爾德。

Scott, first off, congrats on your new role and best wishes with everything. I guess going back to the EM segment and the new leadership there, just curious as to how we should expect strategy to sort of evolve versus what you have been doing?

斯科特，首先，祝賀你擔任新職務並祝你一切順利。我想回到新興市場領域和那裡的新領導層，我只是好奇我們應該如何期待策略相對於你們一直在做的事情有所發展？

And then relatedly, can you just comment on your view in terms of channel inventory levels downstream to that segment, the customer level, et cetera?

然後，相關地，您能否就該細分市場的下游通路庫存水準、客戶水準等發表一下看法？

Yes. Look, Todd Elliott already is bringing intensity and focus around everything that we do, looking at costs and opportunities, whether it be footprint, warehousing, distribution costs, SG&A, et cetera, but also on the customer side, as you talked about. And it really is about looking at the pockets of opportunity that are out there and accelerating in some of those higher growth segments like medical, like electric vehicles in China, future connectivity.

是的。你看，托德·埃利奧特已經把精力和注意力集中在我們所做的每一件事上，關注成本和機會，無論是佔地面積、倉儲、分銷成本、銷售、一般及行政費用等等，同時也關注客戶方面，正如你所說的那樣。這其實就是尋找存在的機遇，並在一些高成長領域加速發展，例如醫療、中國的電動車、未來的連結性。

And so really getting to that customer segment level, defending the base is going to be important, but then also accelerating growth and driving project wins, no matter the size.

因此，真正達到客戶細分水平，保衛客戶基礎非常重要，但同時也要加速成長並推動專案勝利，無論規模大小。

Got it. And then obviously, Scott, we've been in a two-year global manufacturing slump. You've been pulling levers on the cost side and working capital the best you can. But what are some of the other contingencies you have at your disposable in the scenario that the current paradigm continues for another year longer in context of your debt load?

知道了。顯然，史考特，我們已經經歷了兩年的全球製造業低迷。您已經盡最大努力控製成本和營運資金。但是，如果目前的模式再持續一年，考慮到您的債務負擔，您還可以採取哪些其他應急措施？

I believe there's always more that can be done, Ghansham. And I think we've shown that with cost, given where the demand landscape is at. We are looking at really, all elements of the business. And I just kind of highlighted on the Engineered Materials side of things with these action steps that we're taking to reduce complexity. We have some of the similar things on the Acetyl side of the house as well.

我相信還有很多事情可以做，甘沙姆。我認為我們已經透過成本證明了這一點，考慮到需求狀況。我們確實在關注業務的所有要素。我只是強調了工程材料方面我們正在採取的降低複雜性的行動步驟。我們家乙醯基那邊也有一些類似的東西。

And so it's really about kind of taking a no-stone-unturned approach to everything that we're doing and also then looking at really, almost every single customer interaction on how we can drive incremental opportunities and then also make sure we're really extracting full value on the margin side.

因此，這實際上是一種不遺餘力地對待我們所做的每一件事的方法，同時還要關注幾乎每個客戶互動，以了解如何推動增量機會，然後確保我們真正在利潤方面提取全部價值。

Josh Spector, UBS.

瑞銀的喬希·斯佩克特。

This is James Cannon on for Josh. I just wanted to ask on the earnings power of the Acetyl business. I think previously, you said 2024 was a typical run rate for the near term. I think -- if I think about the contract resets, that would be an incremental, call it, $40 million, $50 million headwind this year. Is that the right ballpark? Or is there something to offset that gets us back to the $1.1 billion?

詹姆斯·坎農 (James Cannon) 代替喬什 (Josh) 發言。我只是想問一下乙醯基業務的獲利能力。我認為之前您說過 2024 年是近期的典型運行率。我認為——如果我考慮合約重置，那麼今年的逆風將會逐漸增加，可以這麼說，4000 萬美元、5000 萬美元。這是正確的估計嗎？或者有什麼可以抵消的東西讓我們回到 11 億美元？

Look, I'll echo what I just said, James, there's always opportunity for us to drive margins. And we had some contract resets. The team is working really hard to offset those. That's been hard in Asia, where the supply/demand landscape is at. But we're looking for ways that which kind of leverage our optionality model there and flex up and down the value chain to be able to offset that and get back to those levels that we were at in the first half of last year.

聽著，我重複我剛才說的話，詹姆斯，我們總是有機會提高利潤率。我們也重新設定了一些合約。團隊正在努力彌補這些缺陷。在亞洲，供需格局如此，這很困難。但我們正在尋找方法，利用我們的可選模型，並在價值鏈中上下移動，以抵消這一影響，並回到去年上半年的水平。

Vincent Andrews, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的文森安德魯斯。

Has anything changed, Scott, about the scope of assets that you might consider divesting? And I just asked that because you mentioned in the prior (technical difficulty) that in the past, more recently, we've been talking about maybe multiple smaller divestitures rather than the opportunity to sell a few things or one thing at a larger cost. So are you looking wider or deeper or anything changed in terms of what you're willing to divest?

斯科特，您考慮剝離的資產範圍有什麼變化嗎？我之所以問這個問題，是因為您在之前（技術難題）提到過，過去，也就是最近，我們一直在談論可能是多次較小規模的資產剝離，而不是以更高的價格出售幾件東西或一件東西的機會。那麼，就您願意剝離的資產而言，您的眼光是否更廣、更深，或有什麼改變嗎？

We're looking at everything that has -- that's not critical to kind of our core operating model, Vincent. And that's really this engineered thermoplastics, thermoplastic elastomers portfolio in the Engineered Materials business and our optionality model that starts with methanol and acetic acid and goes all the way through redispersible powders. And if it's not in those operating models, we're taking a look at it.

我們正在研究一切對我們的核心營運模式並不重要的事物，文森特。這實際上是工程材料業務中的工程熱塑性塑料、熱塑性彈性體產品組合，以及我們的可選模型，從甲醇和乙酸開始一直到可再分散粉末。如果它不在這些營運模式中，我們就會對其進行研究。

But it needs to facilitate deleveraging. And so that size I talked about was kind of in that range, but I also said plus/minus. So there is a series of smaller ones that would get you -- that when added up are in that range, and then there's some opportunities that are a little larger.

但它需要促進去槓桿。因此，我所說的尺寸就處於這個範圍內，但我也說了正負。因此，有一系列較小的機會可以讓你獲得——當它們加起來時就在這個範圍內，然後還有一些稍大一點的機會。

Okay. And then in the prepared remarks, you talked about the dissolution of the JV with Tianjin on the Mylar. Is there anything else about your asset footprint that you're looking at, maybe areas where you're not as advantaged or places where it might make sense to take capacity out of the market?

好的。然後在準備好的演講中，您談到了與天津的 Mylar 合資企業的解散。對於您的資產足跡，您是否還關注其他方面，也許是您不太有優勢的領域，或者是可以從市場中撤出產能的領域？

We believe in having an efficient footprint, Vincent, in ensuring that we fully leverage the strong technical capabilities that we have in house here at Celanese. And I think we have a long-term history of reducing our footprint, but yet adding capacity at our advantage sites. And that core principle of manufacturing is what we're leveraging to these M&M assets as well.

文森特，我們相信，擁有高效率的足跡可以確保我們充分利用塞拉尼斯內部強大的技術能力。我認為我們長期以來一直在減少我們的足跡，同時在我們的優勢網站增加容量。我們也利用了製造業的這項核心原則來利用這些 M&M 資產。

By doing that, you get much greater leverage on fixed costs. And so we're consistently looking at opportunities to do that. We've taken action. We've reduced our footprint by 8 sites since we did the acquisition, and we're continuing to look for opportunities to be as efficient as possible.

透過這樣做，您可以獲得更大的固定成本槓桿。因此，我們一直在尋找機會來實現這一點。我們已經採取行動了。自收購以來，我們已將業務範圍減少了 8 個站點，並且我們將繼續尋找機會盡可能提高效率。

Arun Viswanathan, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Arun Viswanathan。

Hope you guys are well. And congrats on the new roles there. So I guess two questions. So first off, I know that you've taken actions on 8 sites there and evaluating some more options as well and divesting of other assets. But is it also the case that there has been some structural weakness in the auto market and you guys are potentially overexposed to underperforming regions such as Europe?

希望你們一切都好。並祝賀你獲得新的職位。所以我猜有兩個問題。首先，我知道您已經在那裡的 8 個站點採取了行動，並且還評估了更多選擇並剝離了其他資產。但汽車市場是否也存在一些結構性弱點，而你們可能過度關注歐洲等表現不佳的地區？

Do you think -- because we've seen this inventory overhang now for two or three quarters and then I think you guys have taken a decisive action in Q3 and Q4 as well, but it doesn't seem like that's been enough to really clear out the inventory. So do you think the actions in Q1 will result in that inventory reduction or will they linger beyond into Q2 and Q3?

您認為——因為我們已經看到庫存過剩持續了兩三個季度，而且我認為你們在第三季度和第四季度也採取了果斷行動，但這似乎還不足以真正清理庫存。那麼您認為第一季的行動會導致庫存減少嗎？還是會持續到第二季和第三季？

The value chain had too much inventory. We talked about that on our last earnings call, and we're working to match our inventory levels with where the fundamental demand is at. Demand has held pretty stable here in the first quarter, but the value chain is rebalancing the inventory footprint.

價值鏈庫存過多。我們在上次收益電話會議上討論了這個問題，我們正在努力使我們的庫存水準與基本需求相符。第一季的需求保持相當穩定，但價值鏈正在重新平衡庫存足跡。

And that's our channel partners, it's the tiers, the molders and the end customers. And so the line of sight that we have today based upon our outlook is that we would see that come to a close here in the first quarter.

這就是我們的通路合作夥伴、各層級、模具製造商和最終客戶。因此，根據我們的展望，我們今天的預測是，這一局面將在第一季結束。

Okay. Great. And then if I can follow up just on the guidance, it looks like the Q1 guidance, again, is in the $400 million or so EBITDA range, maybe slightly below that. Do you expect that to kind of lift up through the year, maybe into the $1.5 billion to $2 billion range on an annualized basis? And again, that will be more of a second half weighted.

好的。偉大的。然後，如果我可以跟進指導，看起來第一季的指導再次在 4 億美元左右的 EBITDA 範圍內，可能略低於這個數字。您是否預計這一數字會在全年有所上升，可能達到年化 15 億美元至 20 億美元的水平？再次強調，這將更取決於下半年。

Is it mostly those cost and productivity actions that would get you there? Or does it require some recovery and volume growth as well?

是不是主要是那些成本和生產力行動能讓你達到這個目標？或者它是否也需要一些恢復和數量增長？

Look, our focus is on the decisive actions that we're taking right now. We can't control what happens in the macro, but we can focus on where we spend money, how we drive a level of efficiency, how we interact and access our customers to drive opportunities.

看，我們的重點是我們現在正在採取的果斷行動。我們無法控制宏觀上發生的事情，但我們可以專注於在哪裡花錢、如何提高效率、如何與客戶互動和接觸以推動機會。

And one of the things we called out is a focus on smaller projects in Engineered Materials. One of the great things about smaller projects is they tend to be able to be commercialized in 6- to 12 months. And so it's very important that we continue to work that with a level of aggressiveness to be able to improve kind of that outlook in the second half.

我們呼籲的一件事是關注工程材料領域的小型專案。小型專案的優點之一是它們往往能夠在 6 到 12 個月內商業化。因此，我們必須繼續積極努力，以改善下半年的前景，這一點非常重要。

Patrick Cunningham, Citi.

花旗銀行的派崔克‧坎寧安 (Patrick Cunningham)。

So some estimates we see on a acetyl capacity, upwards of 3 million tons in 2025, maybe a little less on the VAM side, but still meaningful capacity in the next few years. What gives you confidence that there will not be significant incremental impact from near-term capacity? And what does this capacity mean for the utilization rates of your own network?

因此，我們看到一些關於乙醯基產能的估計，到 2025 年將超過 300 萬噸，VAM 方面可能略少一些，但在未來幾年內仍然具有有意義的產能。您如何確信短期產能不會產生顯著的增量影響？那麼這個容量對於您自己網路的使用率又意味著什麼？

We don't see a big change coming in the supply-demand landscape, Patrick. And where things are today is in the acetyl industry is operating below the cost curve. And that's not sustainable. It's not been historically sustainable. And we haven't seen things degrade further even though we've seen new capacity come into the marketplace from a margin perspective.

派崔克，我們認為供需格局不會有重大變化。目前乙醯基產業的現狀是，其營運成本低於成本曲線。這是不可持續的。從歷史上看，這種狀況是不可持續的。儘管從利潤率角度來看，我們看到新的產能進入市場，但我們並沒有看到情況進一步惡化。

And so we continue to look at where are those pockets of opportunity, up and down the value chain in acetyl is where we can hit it. And the team was successful last year, growing, for example, our redispersible powders business largely outside of China, in other parts of Asia, like India and Southeast Asia, where there was a strong pull in growth for some unique applications such as composite insulation systems, large-style adhesives.

因此，我們將繼續尋找那些機會，在乙醯基的價值鏈上下游尋找機會。去年，該團隊取得了成功，例如，我們的可再分散乳膠粉業務主要在中國以外的亞洲其他地區（如印度和東南亞）實現了增長，這些地區對複合絕緣系統、大型粘合劑等一些獨特應用的增長具有強勁的拉動動作用。

And so it seems like that, that are going to be critical, where we're partnering with our customers to get the full pull-through of that value chain where we have unique technology.

因此，這似乎至關重要，我們將與客戶合作，充分利用我們擁有獨特技術的價值鏈。

Got it. Understood. And how should we think about incremental benefits from Clear Lake into 2025? I mean, are volumes any sort of offset to contract resets here? Is there any reason why run rate utilization should get worse than where you exited the year, whether it's raw material availability or depressed demand levels? Just trying to understand the US operating footprint here.

知道了。明白了。我們該如何看待 Clear Lake 在 2025 年帶來的增量效益？我的意思是，這裡的交易量是否會對合約重置產生任何抵消？是否有任何原因導致運行率利用率比年底時更差，無論是原材料供應還是需求水準低迷？只是想了解美國在這裡的營運足跡。

Look, we're seeing the full run rate of the expansion as we exit 2024. And we've seen some -- obviously, some slight offset from some of those contract resets, which is why we're working other opportunities to offset that. We've got some natural gas headwind in the US to start the year. That has -- we've seen higher costs, but we do expect that will wane and come off as the weather improves and we move into the second quarter.

瞧，到 2024 年，我們將看到擴張的全部運行率。我們已經看到了一些——顯然，一些合約重置產生了一些輕微的抵消，這就是為什麼我們正在努力尋找其他機會來抵消這種抵消。今年年初，美國天然氣市場面臨一些阻力。我們已經看到成本上升，但我們預計，隨著天氣好轉和進入第二季度，成本將會下降。

Aleksey Yefremov, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Aleksey Yefremov，KeyBanc 資本市場。

It sounds like you're deliberately reducing inventory in EM in Q1. Is it possible to size it in terms of EBITDA so that we can understand how much could potentially come back in the second quarter from this deliberate action?

聽起來您在第一季故意減少新興市場的庫存。是否可以根據 EBITDA 來衡量，以便我們了解第二季度透過這項刻意行動可能獲得多少回報？

It's really not that substantial, Aleksey. I wouldn't say it's kind of material like we saw in the fourth quarter.

這確實不是那麼重要，阿列克謝。我不會說它像我們在第四季度看到的那樣。

Okay. And a follow-up on EM as well. It looks like pricing came down maybe low single digit for the segment in Q4. What do you expect from price in Q1 and potentially Q2, another step down or stabilization?

好的。以及對 EM 的後續跟進。看起來第四季該細分市場的定價可能下降了個位數。您對第一季和第二季的價格有何預期？是再次下跌還是保持穩定？

What we are seeing right now is stabilization for the most part. We're having to be competitive in certain standard-grade applications. But the team is also working tenaciously on offsets. I mean, this has been a headwind. But again, in the standard-grade applications, where margins are at for the industry are really at unsustainable levels.

我們現在看到的是，情勢基本上趨於穩定。我們必須在某些標準級應用領域保持競爭力。但團隊也在堅持不懈地努力尋找補償方法。我的意思是，這是一個逆風。但同樣，在標準級應用中，該行業的利潤率確實處於不可持續的水平。

And so we are working on opportunities to be able to turn that tide. The best way to do that is improving mix. And that's with the criticality of working the pipeline and continuing to be successful in some of these more unique higher growth, higher-margin segments.

因此，我們正在努力尋找機會來扭轉這種局面。實現這一目標的最佳方法是改善組合。這對於完善管道和在一些更獨特、成長更快、利潤更高的領域繼續取得成功至關重要。

Kevin McCarthy, Vertical Research Partners.

凱文·麥卡錫（Kevin McCarthy），Vertical Research Partners。

Scott, are you essentially running Celanese today to maximize cash flow as opposed to maximizing earnings? Or is that not the case and you're really trying to strike a balance between the two?

史考特，你現在經營塞拉尼斯的本質是不是為了實現現金流最大化，而不是獲利最大化？或者事實並非如此，您確實想在兩者之間取得平衡？

Well, cash is the priority, Kevin. Given where our debt is at, we are looking to do everything that we can to unlock cash. And I think some of the actions that we have taken or whether it be the dividend, the reduction of capital, the reduction in working capital and a tenacious focus there as well as aggressively working on the divestiture side, it is a focus on cash first.

嗯，現金是首要的，凱文。考慮到我們的債務狀況，我們正在盡一切努力釋放現金。我認為，我們採取的一些行動，無論是股利、減少資本、減少營運資本，或是堅持不懈地關注這些方面，以及積極進行資產剝離工作，都是先關注現金。

Okay. And then if I may, I wanted to follow up on asset yields. I think you idled some capacity temporarily in Singapore and Frankfurt, as you discussed in the prepared remarks last night. Do you do that because they go temporarily cash negative or perhaps for a different reason?

好的。如果可以的話，我想跟進資產收益率。我認為你們暫時閒置了新加坡和法蘭克福的一些產能，正如你們昨晚在準備好的發言中所討論的那樣。您這樣做是因為他們暫時出現現金負值還是有其他原因？

And wondering if you could talk about your specific operating rate at Clear Lake in the fourth quarter and how you expect that to trend in the first quarter?

我想知道您是否可以談談 Clear Lake 在第四季度的具體營運率以及您預計第一季的趨勢如何？

The Acetyl team wakes up every day, Kevin, and looks at the landscape that it's in, and it pivots. And it pivots up and down the chain, it pivots geographically where itself. And then we match operating rates to the needs to maximize margin and EBITDA across the landscape and to meet our customers' needs. And that is a model that team will continue to operate on, and we'll continue to focus on striking that right balance between volume and margin.

凱文，乙醯基團隊每天醒來都會觀察周圍環境，然後做出調整。它沿著鏈條上下旋轉，在地理位置上也旋轉自身。然後，我們將營運率與需求相匹配，以最大化整個行業的利潤率和 EBITDA，並滿足客戶的需求。我們的團隊將繼續採用此模式，並將繼續致力於在銷售和利潤之間取得適當的平衡。

Hassan Ahmed, Alembic Global.

哈桑·艾哈邁德（Hassan Ahmed），Alembic Global。

Good morning, Scott. First of all, congratulations on the new role. And also, congratulations on bringing Scott Sutton on Board. Big fan.

早安，史考特。首先，恭喜你獲得新的職位。另外，恭喜 Scott Sutton 加入董事會。超級粉絲。

First question on the guidance. You guys talked about $0.25 to $0.50 in Q1 EPS and $1.25 to $1.50 as demand recovers in Q2. Now I mean if there is no change in the macro in the back half of the year, should we consider $1.25 to $1.50 as the run rate?

關於指導的第一個問題。你們談到第一季每股收益為 0.25 美元至 0.50 美元，而隨著第二季需求復甦，每股收益將達到 1.25 美元至 1.50 美元。現在我的意思是，如果下半年宏觀經濟沒有變化，我們是否應該考慮將 1.25 美元到 1.50 美元作為運行率？

We're doing everything that we can to drive our run rate much higher than that, Hassan. And it's the actions that we talked about. And our focus on not giving a guide in the second half is because we have multiple actions that are underway. I mean, I talked about the complexity reduction in Engineered Materials, driving our acetyl optionality model to a level that performed better than we saw at the end of last year.

我們正在盡一切努力使我們的運行率更高，哈桑。這就是我們談論的行動。我們之所以沒有在下半年給予指南，是因為我們還有多項行動正在進行中。我的意思是，我談到了工程材料的複雜性降低，推動我們的乙醯基可選性模型達到比去年年底更好的水平。

And then this margin compression component, in addition to everything else that we're doing broadly across the cost side in SG&A and the manufacturing footprint. So we believe that there are decisive opportunities and actions that we can take here at Celanese to lift the run rate performance even if we don't see a change in the macro.

然後是利潤壓縮部分，以及我們在銷售、一般及行政費用和製造足跡等成本方面廣泛開展的其他工作。因此，我們相信，即使宏觀經濟沒有變化，塞拉尼斯也可以抓住機會，採取決定性的行動來提升運作率。

Understood. And in the presentation, one of the things that you guys talked about was -- well, I guess, you gave six reasons to own Celanese shares today. And one of them was the strong earnings leverage as obviously, demand recovers.

明白了。在演示中，你們談到的事情之一是——嗯，我想，你們今天給出了持有塞拉尼斯股票的六個理由。其中之一就是強勁的獲利槓桿，顯然，需求正在復甦。

So my question to you is, as you take a look at the geographic footprint you guys have as well as the end markets you guys are exposed to, is the leverage the same today as it was in prior years, particularly as you look at the sort of changing sort of dynamics globally with tariffs out there, with your exposure to EVs? And you guys yourself flagged the higher exposure to EVs that China today has and how that today is a lower-margin business than it was historically.

所以我的問題是，當你看看你們的地理足跡以及你們所接觸的終端市場時，今天的槓桿率是否與前幾年相同，特別是當你看到全球範圍內關稅的變化動態，以及你們對電動車的接觸？你們自己也指出了當今中國對電動車的關注度較高，以及如今電動車的利潤率低於歷史上的水平。

We have a core principle that we believe in having a very efficient manufacturing footprint. When we acquired the M&M business, their footprint was not as efficient as what we had historically here at Celanese. As a combined organization, we are looking at what is the right efficiency profile that we need, and we're overlaying what we believe and where things are at from a demand perspective geographically. And it's that matching that's really critically important.

我們有一個核心原則，那就是我們相信擁有非常有效率的製造足跡。當我們收購 M&M 業務時，他們的足跡並不像我們塞拉尼斯那樣有效率。作為一個合併後的組織，我們正在研究我們需要的正確效率概況，並從地理需求的角度來整合我們的信念和現狀。這種配對確實至關重要。

And as a corporation, we are pretty evenly split between Americas, Europe and Asia in terms of where our revenue comes from. But Asia is growing, and Europe is declining. And so it's going to be very critical that we continue to drive that intersection point to a level that allows us to enjoy kind of that operating leverage that we historically had.

作為一家公司，我們的收入來源相當平均地分佈在美洲、歐洲和亞洲。但亞洲正在成長，而歐洲正在衰落。因此，繼續推動這一交叉點達到一定水平，讓我們能夠享受我們歷史上所擁有的那種經營槓桿，這一點至關重要。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

John McNulty, BMO Capital Markets.

蒙特利爾銀行資本市場 (BMO Capital Markets) 的 John McNulty。

So Scott, when you think about the acetyl capacity that's coming on in Asia, have you seen any offsets where you're seeing closures, assets coming down permanently? It looks like there's a significant amount of more capacity still to come. So just wondering how that gets placed and if it's just going to have to be where we wait for demand to absorb it all?

那麼史考特，當您想到亞洲乙醯基產能的增加時，您是否看到任何抵銷措施，即關閉產能、資產永久下降？看起來還有大量的產能尚未釋放。所以我只是想知道它是如何放置的，以及它是否必須放在我們等待需求吸收它的地方？

We haven't seen, I'd say, permanent capacity reductions. We definitely have seen the industry operating at lower rates. And I think what's a little bit different about this cycle on capacity adds versus what we saw 15 years ago, 15 years ago, it was all almost all new players to the marketplace.

我想說，我們還沒有看到永久性的產能削減。我們確實看到該行業的營運率下降了。我認為，這個產能增加週期與 15 年前的週期略有不同，15 年前，幾乎所有市場都有新參與者。

This is about 50-50, existing players adding capacity and some new players. And so obviously, for those with existing capacity, they're kind of flexing their networks up and down based upon what they need. So we have definitely seen probably a little bit more kind of down to match where demand is at.

比例大約是 50-50，現有玩家增加了容量，還有一些新玩家。因此顯然，對於那些擁有現有容量的人來說，他們會根據需要來調整他們的網路。因此，我們確實看到了可能略有下降的趨勢，以滿足需求。

Okay. Fair enough. And then, I guess, do you see there being any risk that capacity makes its way more meaningfully into other markets? Or does it really kind of stay in the markets that it's been over the last, whatever, the last few years?

好的。很公平。那麼，我想，您是否認為產能更有意義地進入其他市場有風險？或者它真的會停留在過去幾年的市場嗎？

That arbitrage window is not open, and it's kind of stayed right at or below kind of what it costs to move product. And look, shipping is expensive and complex. And storage is complex as well right now in other markets. And so just given transit times, et cetera, we have not seen a lot of that material move out of the region.

套利窗口並未打開，且價格基本上保持在產品運輸成本的水平或以下。而且，運輸既昂貴又複雜。目前其他市場的儲存也同樣複雜。因此，僅考慮到運輸時間等因素，我們還沒有看到大量此類材料運出該地區。

Laurence Alexander, Jefferies.

勞倫斯‧亞歷山大，傑富瑞集團。

So first, on the divestitures, are these assets that you've decided you just don't fit in the portfolio, and you will exit even if things get better? Or as things get better, would you keep them and focus on deleveraging through other means?

那麼首先，關於資產剝離，您是否認為這些資產不適合納入投資組合，並且即使情況好轉您也會退出？或者隨著情況好轉，你會保留它們並專注於透過其他方式去槓桿嗎？

And secondly, with acetyls, can you elaborate a little bit on kind of the execution issues in the back half of last year? And to the extent that they've been changed or fixed, should we see the improvement this summer regardless of the environment? Or do you need a better level of aggregate demand in order to also fix the execution issues that you've identified?

其次，關於乙醯基，您能否詳細說明一下去年下半年的執行問題？並且，就這些改變或修復而言，無論環境如何，我們是否應該在今年夏天看到改善？或者您需要更高程度的總需求來解決您已發現的執行問題？

Yes. Let me hit your second question first. I wouldn't call it necessarily execution issues. I think it was just a length in supply/demand really driven by kind of where demand declined at the end of the year. And look, the team is doing everything we can to really flex that model up and down the value chain and look for pockets of opportunity.

是的。我先來回答你的第二個問題。我不認為這一定是執行問題。我認為這只是供需關係的一個方面，實際上是由年底需求下降所驅動的。瞧，團隊正在竭盡全力在價值鏈上上下下地調整該模型，尋找機會。

On your first question around divestitures, look, I think we have identified pieces that are not critical to kind of those core operating models and we're looking at and having a lot of conversations. I mean, it has been a tough M&A market for the last several years.

關於您關於資產剝離的第一個問題，我認為我們已經確定了對那些核心營運模式並不重要的部分，我們正在研究並進行大量對話。我的意思是，過去幾年併購市場一直很艱難。

And we are very principal, and I've heard from a lot of investors that are concerned about us fire selling assets. We're not in the business of fire selling assets. Our focus is on divestitures to drive deleveraging. And it's going to be important that we continue to stick with that principle and be aggressive about doing deals as they present themselves to us.

我們非常重視原則，我聽到很多投資人擔心我們低價出售資產。我們並沒有從事廉價出售資產的業務。我們的重點是透過資產剝離來推動去槓桿。重要的是，我們要繼續堅持這項原則，積極地完成出現在我們面前的交易。

John Roberts, Mizuho.

瑞穗的約翰羅伯茲。

John, could you check if you're muted, please?

約翰，請問您能檢查一下自己是否已靜音嗎？

Okay. Well, Daryl, it seems like John might be muted. Let's go ahead and make the next analyst.

好的。好吧，達裡爾，看起來約翰可能被靜音了。讓我們繼續進行下一位分析師。

Can you hear me now?

現在你能聽到我說話嗎？

We can hear you now, John.

我們現在能聽到你的聲音了，約翰。

Congrats, Scott, and welcome back to Scott Sutton. Could you talk about the new JV rules in China? We have other companies with China JVs, and I don't recall hearing anything about that. Is it all JVs in China or something specific to the Celanese-Chinese JVs?

恭喜，斯科特，歡迎斯科特·薩頓回來。能談談中國新的合資企業規則嗎？我們還有其他公司與中國有合資企業，但我不記得聽說過這方面的事。這是中國所有的合資企業嗎？還是特定於塞拉尼斯與中國的合資企業？

Yes. Look, I think some JVs have gone through some of this and some haven't. It's really related to the rules that govern certain JVs. And really, what changed here is that there's a rule that requires an audit to be completed before dividends can be paid. And so that audit gets completed here in the first part of the year. And so we should see dividends starting in Q2. So that's a rule change that at least our JVs are now subject to.

是的。瞧，我認為一些合資企業已經經歷過其中的一些，而一些還沒有。這實際上與管理某些合資企業的規則有關。實際上，這裡發生的變化是，有一條規則要求在支付股息之前必須完成審計。因此審計工作在今年上半年就完成了。因此我們應該會看到股利從第二季開始發放。所以這是一項規則變化，至少我們的合資企業現在必須遵守。

Okay. Daryl, thanks. Let's make the next question the last one.

好的。達裡爾，謝謝。讓我們把下一個問題當作最後一個問題。

Salvator Tiano, Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Salvator Tiano。

Yes. So firstly, I want to ask a little bit about as you're thinking here about -- if you talk a little bit about the package of cost savings. I know you mentioned also the $50 million -- sorry, the $50 million to $100 million from complexity and $80 million, SG&A.

是的。因此，首先，我想問一下您在這裡想到的問題—您可以談談成本節約方案嗎？我知道您還提到了 5000 萬美元 - 抱歉，是 5000 萬到 1 億美元，這是由於複雜性造成的，還有 8000 萬美元，銷售、一般和行政費用。

But I think last quarter, we're talking about some of them and then cost synergies not being realized in 2024 and thus being pushed in 2025. And clearly, obviously, the $100 million also not fully realized last year, in part due to the force majeure.

但我認為上個季度我們正在討論其中的一些，然後成本協同效應在 2024 年無法實現，因此被推遲到 2025 年。顯然，這 1 億美元去年也沒有完全實現，部分原因是不可抗力。

So are these part of these buckets you already gave? Or is there upside from this, especially on the Clear Lake side?

那麼這些是您已經給出的桶的一部分嗎？或者這樣做有好處嗎，特別是在 Clear Lake 一側？

Look, we achieved $250 million of synergies as we exited last year, Sal. And we still have more that are in our plan to be realized here this year. Clear Lake, we're on the run rate. As we talked about, there's been some offsets from margin compression. And that's why I really talked about that as a critical element of focus for us on really reversing that trend as we go forward so we get the full value of these actions that have already been executed on.

你看，我們去年退出時實現了 2.5 億美元的協同效應，薩爾。我們今年也計劃實現更多目標。清水湖，我們正按計畫前進。正如我們所討論的，利潤率壓縮已經帶來了一些抵消。這就是為什麼我真正談論它是我們關注的關鍵因素，以便我們真正扭轉這一趨勢，從而讓我們獲得已經執行的這些行動的全部價值。

We are looking at driving productivity every single day, looking at every dollar that goes outside of the company and where we can save and where we can prioritize. And this is a focus on cash. And so that tenacity will continue. Everything is on the table.

我們每天都在關注如何提高生產力，專注於公司外部的每一分錢，專注於我們可以節省的地方以及我們可以優先考慮的地方。這是對現金的關注。這樣，這種堅韌精神就會持續下去。一切都擺在桌面上。

Perfect. And I want to go back to your auto exposure to China. I have got a number of questions. I'm just wondering how are things different in China versus Europe and the US when it comes to the OEMs?

完美的。我想回到您對中國的汽車曝光問題。我有幾個問題。我只是想知道，就原始設備製造商而言，中國與歐洲和美國有何不同？

And a big tailwind for Celanese and others have been obviously lightweighting and replacing metal, wood and other components with plastic. Is there a bigger or a smaller opportunity right now in Chinese autos versus what you had in the Western Hemisphere over the past couple of decades?

對於塞拉尼斯和其他公司來說，一個巨大的順風顯然是輕量化以及用塑膠取代金屬、木材和其他零件。與過去幾十年西半球的汽車市場相比，中國汽車市場目前的機會是更大還是更小？

Look, there's still a huge opportunity for us in China, and it's why we're continuing to put a heavy focus there. I think one of the things that's really important is that the technical requirements of electric vehicles, particularly from a powertrain standpoint, are becoming a lot more demanding.

你看，中國對我們來說仍然有巨大的機遇，這就是我們繼續把重點放在中國的原因。我認為真正重要的一點是，電動車的技術要求，特別是從動力系統的角度來看，變得越來越高。

And there's also a lot of other applications where China is moving up this technical requirement curve. This requires materials with higher performance requirements. And we have -- really, we believe, the best portfolio to match that.

此外，中國也在許多其他應用中提升這項技術要求曲線。這對材料的性能要求更高。而且我們確實相信，我們擁有與之相匹配的最佳投資組合。

And where our KPD sit in China, we're about half of where we are in the Western Hemisphere, and that's moved up substantially in the last several years. But it is critical that we maintain that focus. Just -- really since the beginning of the year, we've had two sizable technical exchanges with two of the top 5 Chinese OEMs as a way to accelerate and drive business.

我們的共產黨在中國的駐紮地大約是西半球駐紮地的一半，而且這個數字在過去幾年大幅上升。但我們必須保持這種關注。實際上，自今年年初以來，我們已經與中國五大原始設備製造商中的兩家進行了兩次大規模的技術交流，以加速和推動業務。

Great thing about China auto is that commercialization time tends to be much shorter, kind of more like 6- to 12 months as opposed to 24 months in the Western Hemisphere.

中國汽車的優點在於其商業化時間往往要短得多，大約為 6 到 12 個月，而西半球則為 24 個月。

And thank you, everyone. We'd like to thank everyone for listening today. As always, we're available after the call for any follow-up questions. Daryl, please go ahead and close up the call.

謝謝大家。我們感謝大家今天的聆聽。與往常一樣，通話結束後我們仍可解答任何後續問題。達裡爾，請繼續，然後結束通話。

Thank you. This does conclude today's teleconference. We appreciate your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Enjoy the rest of your day.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。現在您可以斷開線路。享受剩餘的一天。