塞拉尼斯 (CE) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to Celanese's Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Call and Webcast.

歡迎收看塞拉尼斯 2024 年第三季財報電話會議和網路廣播。

(Operator Instructions) It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Bill Cunningham, Vice President of Investor Relations.

（操作員說明） 現在我很高興向您介紹主持人，投資者關係副總裁 Bill Cunningham。

Thank you.

謝謝。

You may begin.

你可以開始了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Welcome to the Celanese Corporation third quarter 2024 earnings conference call.

歡迎參加塞拉尼斯公司 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。

My name is Bill Cunningham, Vice President of Investor Relations.

我叫比爾‧坎寧安 (Bill Cunningham)，投資人關係副總裁。

With me on the call today are Lori Ryerkerk, Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer; Scott Richardson, Chief Operating Officer; and Chuck Kyrish, Chief Financial Officer.

今天與我一起參加電話會議的是董事會主席兼執行長 Lori Ryerkerk；史考特·理查森，首席營運長；和財務長查克·凱裡什。

Celanese distributed its third quarter earnings release via Business Wire and posted prepared comments on our Investor Relations Web site yesterday afternoon.

塞拉尼斯透過美國商業資訊發布了第三季財報報告，並在昨天下午在我們的投資者關係網站上發布了準備好的評論。

As a reminder, we'll discuss non-GAAP financial measures today.

提醒一下，我們今天將討論非公認會計準則財務指標。

You can find definitions of these measures as well as reconciliations to the comparable GAAP measures on our Web site.

您可以在我們的網站上找到這些衡量標準的定義以及可比較 GAAP 衡量標準的調整表。

Today's presentation will also include forward-looking statements.

今天的演講還將包括前瞻性陳述。

Please review the cautionary language regarding forward-looking statements, which can be found at the end of both the press release and the prepared comments.

請查看有關前瞻性陳述的警告性語言，這些語言可以在新聞稿和準備好的評論的末尾找到。

Form 8-K reports containing all these materials have also been submitted to the SEC.

包含所有這些資料的 8-K 表格報告也已提交給 SEC。

Before we open it for questions, I'd like to turn the call over to Lori Ryerkerk for some opening remarks.

在我們開始提問之前，我想將電話轉給 Lori Ryerkerk，讓其發表一些開場白。

Thank you, Bill.

謝謝你，比爾。

And good morning, everyone.

大家早安。

As Bill said, before we get started with questions today, I wanted to take a moment to emphasize a few key points.

正如比爾所說，在我們今天開始提問之前，我想花點時間強調幾個關鍵點。

First, it is clear from our prepared comments that our results for Q3 were disappointing and the outlook for Q4 and into 2025 is below both our expectations and our goals.

首先，從我們準備好的評論中可以清楚地看出，我們第三季的業績令人失望，第四季和 2025 年的前景低於我們的預期和目標。

Despite the many actions that we've taken to continue to deliver value, the benefit from these measures has been increasingly offset by the broad and persistent macroeconomic headwinds.

儘管我們採取了許多行動來繼續創造價值，但這些措施的好處越來越多地被廣泛而持續的宏觀經濟逆風所抵消。

Given this dynamic, we intend to temporarily reduce our quarterly dividend beginning in the first quarter of 2025.

鑑於這種動態，我們打算從 2025 年第一季開始暫時減少季度股息。

While we recognize the importance of the dividend to our shareholders, we've carefully considered a variety of options and we have determined that this is the most prudent and cost effective measure to support our deleveraging efforts at this time.

雖然我們認識到股息對股東的重要性，但我們仔細考慮了各種選擇，並確定這是目前支持我們去槓桿化努力的最審慎和最具成本效益的措施。

We will look forward to accelerating the return of capital to shareholders once we have progressed our deleveraging efforts.

去槓桿工作取得進展後，我們將期待加快向股東返還資本。

To further help us navigate this challenging environment, we have identified and will take additional bold actions to strengthen earnings and cash generation.

為了進一步幫助我們應對這個充滿挑戰的環境，我們已經確定並將採取額外的大膽行動來增強獲利和現金產生。

We have a strong track record of delivery and operational excellence and are confident that we are taking the right actions.

我們在交付和卓越營運方面擁有良好的記錄，並相信我們正在採取正確的行動。

For example, we are significantly slowing production to match demand in Q4 and implementing further cost reductions, particularly in SG&A.

例如，我們大幅放緩生產以滿足第四季度的需求，並進一步降低成本，特別是在銷售、管理和行政費用方面。

We hold ourselves to a high standard and the steps that we are taking are driving durable improvements for the company as we build an increasingly disciplined cross structure and better position the business to drive long term growth.

我們堅持高標準，我們正在採取的步驟正在推動公司的持久改進，因為我們建立了越來越嚴格的交叉結構，並更好地定位業務以推動長期成長。

In closing, I want to thank our teams for their dedication and resilience in the face of persistent demand challenges in our end markets.

最後，我要感謝我們的團隊在面對終端市場持續的需求挑戰時所展現的奉獻精神和韌性。

I am confident that our actions have and will continue to position Celanese to create substantial value for our shareholders.

我相信，我們的行動已經並將繼續幫助塞拉尼斯為我們的股東創造巨大的價值。

We believe in Celanese's long term potential and we are leaving no stone unturned to capture opportunities that will benefit us both now and once demand begins to recover.

我們相信塞拉尼斯的長期潛力，我們將不遺餘力地抓住機會，使我們現在和需求開始復甦後都受益。

With that, we'll open the line for questions.

這樣，我們將開通提問熱線。

Thank you.

謝謝。

We'll now be conducting a question and answer session.

我們現在將進行問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Vincent Andrews, Morgan Stanley.

文森安德魯斯，摩根士丹利。

Hi, thank you and good morning, everyone.

嗨，謝謝大家，大家早安。

Wondering if you could just give us a little bit of a bridge in terms of the cash flow divestitures and how you're going to sort of delever over the next year or so?

想知道您是否可以在現金流剝離方面為我們提供一點幫助，以及您將如何在未來一年左右的時間內進行去槓桿化？

I'm assuming you're anticipating some improvement in the operating environment at some point, as well as divestitures and cost savings.

我假設您預計在某個時候營運環境會有所改善，以及資產剝離和成本節約。

But if you can just sort of bridge us from today maybe through '25 and into '26 in terms of what your expectations are?

但如果你能從今天開始為我們架起一座橋樑，也許從25年一直到26年，你的期望是什麼？

So Vincent, obviously our first objective is to focus on EBIT.

所以文森特，顯然我們的首要目標是專注於息稅前利潤。

We don't know what the environment is going to be next year.

我們不知道明年的環境會是怎樣。

So in that way, our focus is really on the cost reduction initiatives I talked about as well as doing things to really fill the project pipeline and make sure that we're generating additional business.

因此，透過這種方式，我們的重點實際上是我談到的降低成本舉措，以及採取措施真正填補專案管道並確保我們產生額外的業務。

I think as we called out in the prepared comments, we would see, even at today's environment, being near a more typical level because we did have a lot of one offs in cash flow this year.

我認為，正如我們在準備好的評論中所指出的那樣，即使在今天的環境下，我們也會看到接近更典型的水平，因為今年我們的現金流確實有很多一次性的情況。

A more typical level that would yield about $800 million to $900 million.

更典型的水平約為 8 億至 9 億美元。

Obviously, with the steps we're taking, we would hope for some additional cash flow generated from that.

顯然，透過我們正在採取的步驟，我們希望從中產生一些額外的現金流。

We continue to focus on divestitures.

我們繼續關注資產剝離。

And timing is uncertain, which is why we never really figure them into our free cash flow statement.

而且時間是不確定的，這就是為什麼我們從未真正將它們計入我們的自由現金流量表中。

But we do remain very focused on opportunistic divestitures where we can find someone who values our assets more than we do.

但我們仍然非常關注機會主義剝離，這樣我們可以找到比我們更重視我們資產的人。

So maybe I can turn it over to Chuck and he can add any additional color.

所以也許我可以把它交給查克，他可以添加任何額外的顏色。

Yes, and I think that's right, Lori.

是的，我認為這是對的，洛瑞。

And Vincent, we have this prepayable term loan that we can deleverage throughout the course of next year as we generate cash and any other cash sources.

文森特，我們有這筆預付定期貸款，隨著我們產生現金和任何其他現金來源，我們可以在明年全年去槓桿化。

So we've got the facilities in place to use that cash to continue to deleverage.

因此，我們已經準備好使用這些現金繼續去槓桿化的設施。

And we remain committed -- we remain strong committed to deleveraging the balance sheet to 3 times net debt to EBITDA as fast as we can get there.

我們仍然堅定地致力於盡快將資產負債表去槓桿化至 EBITDA 淨債務的 3 倍。

We've talked a lot about significant actions underway to underscore that, right?

我們已經談論了很多正在採取的重大行動來強調這一點，對嗎？

Additional cost actions that we've announced, continued CapEx reduction and focusing on maintenance, reliability, safety, we're working divestitures as Lori said, divestitures that make sense.

我們已經宣布了額外的成本行動，持續減少資本支出並專注於維護、可靠性、安全性，正如洛里所說，我們正在進行資產剝離，這是有意義的資產剝離。

And obviously, the significant announcement of our intention to reduce our dividend starting in Q1.

顯然，我們有意從第一季開始減少股利。

So that's what we're focused on is deleveraging the balance sheet down to 3 times net debt to EBITDA and we put things in place to be able to do that.

因此，我們關注的重點是將資產負債表去槓桿化至 EBITDA 淨債務的 3 倍，我們已採取措施來做到這一點。

And if I could just follow-up on the Clear Lake.

如果我能跟進克利爾湖就好了。

There's supposed to be $100 million of benefit that's going to come from starting up that asset.

啟動該資產預計將帶來 1 億美元的收益。

If I read the prepared comments correctly, I believe there was $20 million in the third quarter.

如果我正確地閱讀了準備好的評論，我相信第三季有 2000 萬美元。

So first, is that correct?

那麼首先，這是正確的嗎？

And then second, what is sort of the bridge to getting between the $20 million, if I'm correct, and the $100 million?

其次，如果我沒猜錯的話，在 2,000 萬美元和 1 億美元之間有什麼橋樑？

On Clear Lake, you may recall we called out about $10 million in the first quarter and then $20 million now in the third quarter, we would expect some additional amount in the fourth quarter as well.

在 Clear Lake 上，您可能還記得我們在第一季籌集了約 1000 萬美元，然後在第三季度籌集了 2000 萬美元，我們預計第四季度還會有一些額外的資金。

We still think the benefit of Clear Lake is on a 100 range on a full year basis.

我們仍然認為 Clear Lake 的全年效益在 100 範圍內。

And so we would expect to see the majority of that then occur next year as well.

因此，我們預計其中大部分也會在明年發生。

Mike Leithead, Barclays.

麥克萊特黑德，巴克萊銀行。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Good morning, team.

早上好，團隊。

I wanted to start, Lori, at a high level, I think the magnitude and abruptness of the decline in the second half of the year was a bit surprising.

洛里，我想從高水準開始，我認為下半年下降的幅度和突然性有點令人驚訝。

So can you help contextualize or just help us better understand sort of how the past three months progressed relative to your expectation and sort of when order books really started to deviate versus your expectations, and you realize you need to pivot here on your production and your cash management?

那麼，您能否幫助我們了解具體情況，或者只是幫助我們更好地了解過去三個月相對於您的預期的進展情況，以及訂單何時真正開始偏離您的預期，並且您意識到您需要在此處以您的生產和您的業務為中心進行調整現金管理？

Let me give you just a little bit of color.

讓我給你一點點顏色。

So when we made the guidance last quarter, we were coming off a stronger June, things we're looking a little bit stronger into the second half and in discussions with our customers, particularly auto, industrial, we were expecting some lift in those segments and across, and of course, we were seeing the impact of synergies and other things.

因此，當我們在上個季度製定指導意見時，我們六月的表現更加強勁，我們希望下半年的情況會更加強勁，並且在與客戶（特別是汽車、工業客戶）的討論中，我們預計這些領域會出現一些提振當然，我們看到了綜效和其他因素的影響。

I would say as we went through the quarter, we continue to see further pressure specifically on auto and on industrial.

我想說，在整個季度中，我們繼續看到特別是汽車和工業的進一步壓力。

I think as an example and if we look at European registration of autos, they fell from June to August.

我想舉個例子，如果我們看看歐洲的汽車註冊情況，我們會發現從六月到八月，汽車註冊量有所下降。

So I would say really starting to see the big impact of that in August.

所以我想說的是，八月才真正開始看到它的巨大影響。

I think we've seen the OEM announcements from Mercedes and Volkswagen, and everyone, which suggests maybe that situation isn't getting quicker anytime soon.

我認為我們已經看到了梅賽德斯和大眾以及所有人的原始設備製造商公告，這表明這種情況可能不會很快變得更快。

Even if you look at full second quarter to third quarter, European auto builds were down 14%.

即使從整個第二季到第三季來看，歐洲汽車製造量也下降了 14%。

So that's really where we started to see the big impact is as we worked our way through the quarter and frankly, conditions just continue to worsen, as we went through the quarter, including then in the US where we started to see announcements from Stellantis and GM.

因此，這確實是我們開始看到重大影響的地方，坦白說，隨著我們整個季度的努力，情況繼續惡化，包括當時在美國，我們開始看到 Stellantis 和總經理。

Okay.

好的。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And on the dividend, I appreciate we're at day one here, but you emphasized in the prepared remarks the temporary nature of this reduction.

關於股息，我很高興我們來到這裡的第一天，但​​你在準備好的評論中強調了這種減少的暫時性。

Is there a specific leverage target or earnings level that you're initially aiming at or how long you want to keep the dividend at this level or will we need to see how cash flow evolves over the next year or so here?

您最初的目標是否有特定的槓桿目標或收益水平，或者您希望將股息保持在該水平多長時間，或者我們是否需要在這裡了解未來一年左右的現金流如何變化？

Mike, our focus is really laser focused right now on getting to that 3 times leverage.

麥克，我們現在的重點是實現 3 倍槓桿。

And given the current market conditions that we're seeing and the fact that it looks like these are continuing into the early parts of 2025, at least, we felt the need to take further actions.

考慮到我們目前看到的市場狀況，以及這種情況至少持續到 2025 年初的事實，我們認為有必要採取進一步行動。

And after a lot of consideration along with the board determined that reducing the dividend at this point was the most prudent and most cost effective options.

經過與董事會的大量考慮後，確定此時減少股利是最審慎且最具成本效益的選擇。

So that's really where our focus will remain.

所以這確實是我們的重點。

It's driving activities to really rapidly deleverage to 3 time as quickly as we can.

它正在推動活動真正迅速地將去槓桿化速度提高到原來的三倍。

Great.

偉大的。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Michael Sison, Wells Fargo.

麥可西森，富國銀行。

Hey, good morning.

嘿，早安。

So when I take a look at the fourth quarter and the EBITDA outlook for EM, are you getting close to a write down for the M&M business, if not, why?

因此，當我查看第四季度和新興市場的 EBITDA 前景時，您是否已接近 M&M 業務的減記，如果不是，為什麼？

And you have a lot of one-offs there.

那裡有很多一次性的事情。

Do those sort of come back or do we sort of add that back as we head into the first quarter?

這些會回來還是我們會在進入第一季時將其添加回來？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Let me address the second half of your question first.

讓我先回答你問題的後半部。

I mean -- so there are a number of one-offs in the fourth quarter and we would expect the destocking that we expect to see, the mix effects, the effects from affiliates inventory, we expect the vast majority of that to come back in the first quarter.

我的意思是，第四季會出現一些一次性的情況，我們預計會出現預期的去庫存、混合效應、附屬公司庫存的影響，我們預計其中絕大多數會在 2019 年恢復。

And let me turn it over to Chuck to talk about our -- how we go through valuation and looking at write down.

讓我把它交給查克來談談我們如何進行估值和考慮減記。

So third quarter each year is when we do test our goodwill and indefinite live intangibles.

因此，每年第三季我們都會測試我們的商譽和無限期的無形資產。

I'll remind you, goodwill is tested at the reporting unit level, that's an engineering materials level.

我要提醒您的是，商譽是在報告單位層級（即工程材料層級）進行測試的。

So we tested that quantitatively with the help of big four valuation specialists and we did not record an impairment.

因此，我們在四大估值專家的幫助下進行了定量測試，我們沒有記錄減值。

We did also test all the trade names of Engineered Materials individually with the same process and we did record a $34 million impairment on trade names, most of that was Zytel.

我們還使用相同的流程單獨測試了工程材料的所有商品名稱，並且我們確實記錄了商品名稱 3400 萬美元的減值，其中大部分是 Zytel。

So that kind of concluded our third quarter cycle of those testings.

我們的第三季測試週期就這樣結束了。

Got it.

知道了。

And as a quick follow-up, if you think about 2025.

作為快速跟進，如果你想想 2025 年。

Clearly, the end markets have impacted you all and everybody else in chemical is pretty negatively.

顯然，終端市場已經對你們所有人產生了影響，而化學品領域的其他所有人都受到了相當負面的影響。

If the environment doesn't improve in 2025, how do you think EBITDA or earnings should shape up next year, given you do have some stuff within your control to get some upside?

如果 2025 年環境沒有改善，考慮到您確實可以控制一些東西來獲得一些上漲空間，您認為明年的 EBITDA 或收益應該如何變化？

Mike, I would start with -- if you look at the performance over the first three quarters of this year, we have seen quarter-on-quarter improvement in performance being driven by synergies being driven by our product pipeline, et cetera.

麥克，我首先要說的是，如果你看看今年前三個季度的業績，我們會發現業績的季度環比改善是由我們的產品管道等推動的協同效應推動的。

Those things will be true next year as well.

這些事情明年也將如此。

We'll have additional synergies next year.

明年我們將產生更多的綜效。

We are putting a lot of effort into really trying to accelerate the project pipeline.

我們正在投入大量精力來真正加快專案進程。

It has grown significantly versus a year ago.

與一年前相比，它已顯著增長。

But clearly, in this current macroeconomic that's not sufficient to support the business growth that we expect.

但顯然，在當前的宏觀經濟情勢下，這不足以支持我們預期的業務成長。

That, combined with our cost reduction programs, I would just say for 2025, there is so much uncertainty while we are going to take a lot of steps to help ourselves to really control what we can control whether that market environment gets better or deteriorate, what we see in terms of interest, there is a lot of open questions out there around 2025.

結合我們的成本削減計劃，我只想說，到 2025 年，存在很大的不確定性，而我們將採取很多措施來幫助自己真正控制我們可以控制的事情，無論市場環境是好還是壞，從我們的興趣來看，2025 年左右還有很多懸而未決的問題。

And I think it's just simply too early to speak with any authority about 2025 expectations.

我認為現在與任何權威人士談論 2025 年的期望還為時過早。

So as we close 2024 and go into 2025, we have four priorities that we are focused on as an organization.

因此，當我們結束 2024 年並進入 2025 年時，我們作為一個組織專注於四個優先事項。

Number one, reducing cost, making sure that we're scrutinizing every dollar that we spend and that we're being very deliberate and targeted with where we invest.

第一，降低成本，確保我們仔細審查我們花費的每一美元，並且我們對投資的方向非常謹慎和有針對性。

Two, is deliver the synergies and make sure that, that number one is in addition to the synergies that we've already committed to.

第二，是提供協同效應，並確保第一是我們已經承諾的協同效應之外的。

Number three, on the Engineered Materials side of things, is supercharge the pipeline.

第三，在工程材料方面，是對管道進行增壓。

While we have had some good metrics, it's not been enough to offset the downside we've seen from some of the demand challenges.

雖然我們有一些很好的指標，但這還不足以抵消我們從一些需求挑戰中看到的負面影響。

But we've got to continue to aggressively work with customers, continue to penetrate in nonautomotive sectors to where we increase our share of wallet there.

但我們必須繼續積極與客戶合作，繼續滲透到非汽車產業，以增加我們在該領域的錢包份額。

And then the fourth area on the Acetyl Chain side of things, is really fully leverage this integrated model that we have to be able to ensure that we're driving profit every single day.

然後，乙醯鏈的第四個領域是真正充分利用這種整合模型，我們必須能夠確保我們每天都在推動利潤。

And we know that's going to be different from one week to the next but we have to keep the focus on those four priorities.

我們知道每週情況都會有所不同，但我們必須將重點放在這四個優先事項上。

And if we see a change upward in the demand landscape, that's just going to lead to more upside.

如果我們看到需求模式發生向上的變化，那隻會帶來更多的上漲空間。

So our focus really is on those things that are within our own control right now.

因此，我們現在的重點確實是在我們自己控制範圍內的事情上。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jeff Zekauskas, JPMorgan.

傑夫‧澤考斯卡斯，摩根大通。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

What would have been the consequences of you not cutting your dividend?

如果您不削減股息，會有什麼後果？

And is the dividend cut based in a diminished expectation for longer term operating cash flows in '25 and '26, and what caused that?

股息削減是否是由於對 25 年和 26 年長期經營現金流的預期下降，導致這種情況的原因是什麼？

Let me try to answer the second part first, Jeff.

讓我先試著回答第二部分，傑夫。

Look, our long term expectation for this business is no different than it's been.

看，我們對這項業務的長期期望與以往沒有什麼不同。

I mean, we still believe in the long term performance of our Acetyl and our EM businesses, including the acquisition.

我的意思是，我們仍然相信 Acetyl 和 EM 業務的長期業績，包括這項收購。

The challenge we've had is the current macroeconomic conditions and recent demand deterioration have really challenged both businesses.

我們面臨的挑戰是當前的宏觀經濟狀況和最近的需求惡化確實為這兩家企業帶來了挑戰。

And because of that, we are taking all of these actions but we are not getting the cash flow we expected to be on the deleveraging plan that we had planned for.

正因為如此，我們正在採取所有這些行動，但我們沒有獲得我們計劃的去槓桿化計劃中預期的現金流。

So looking at the dividend, we really did determine this was the most cost effective and prudent way to get back on that cadence of deleveraging that we wanted to do for our business and that's really what drove the decision around dividends.

因此，看看股息，我們確實確定這是恢復我們想要為我們的業務進行的去槓桿化節奏的最具成本效益和審慎的方式，這確實是推動股息決策的原因。

Okay.

好的。

And secondly, I think you spent roughly $125 million in cash costs for restructuring this year, you expect to spend that.

其次，我認為您今年為重組花費了大約 1.25 億美元的現金成本，而您預計會花費這筆錢。

What's your number for 2025?

2025 年你的電話號碼是多少？

And then secondly, in your expectations about the auto markets, I mean wasn't IHS already expecting down auto production in Europe for the third quarter in July?

其次，在您對汽車市場的預期中，我的意思是，IHS 不是已經預期 7 月歐洲第三季的汽車產量會下降嗎？

I mean was the downturn in Europe really that unexpected?

我的意思是歐洲的經濟衰退真的那麼出乎意料嗎？

Let me answer the second question first, Jeff, and then I'll turn it over to Chuck.

讓我先回答第二個問題，傑夫，然後我會把它交給查克。

I mean, look, there are a variety of publications that we look at.

我的意思是，我們看的出版物有很多種。

And when we made our forecast for the quarter, there was still an expectation of a slight uptick that did come down relatively quickly to the end of July and early part of August, and there was that flip.

當我們對本季進行預測時，仍然有一個小幅上升的預期，但到 7 月底和 8 月初，這種預期確實相對較快地下降了，而且出現了這種翻轉。

And as Lori talked about then, we started to really see the acute change in car registrations and other data in the month of August.

正如洛里當時所說，我們開始真正看到八月汽車登記和其他數據的急劇變化。

So that is really where we saw the bigger flip in expectations.

所以這確實是我們看到預期發生較大轉變的地方。

And I think there was what has kind of materialized, I think, if there was an expectation in the second half of the year that there would be a list, and we saw a buildup in Q2 of inventories.

我認為，如果預計今年下半年會有一份清單，我們會看到第二季庫存的增加，那麼這種情況已經成為現實。

And so what we've seen now in the end of the part of the third quarter and into the fourth quarter is customers destocking that inventory in preparation for lower builds and lower sales here in the second half of the year.

因此，我們現在在第三季末和第四季看到的是，客戶正在減少庫存，為下半年的產量減少和銷售下降做好準備。

Jeff, on the cash cost synergies, next year with (inaudible) to M&M, those are going to drop off probably about $50 million.

Jeff，關於現金成本綜效，明年與（聽不清楚）M&M 的綜效可能會減少約 5,000 萬美元。

Now we will have some cash costs from the new cost reduction actions that we announced.

現在，我們將透過我們宣布的新成本削減行動獲得一些現金成本。

And so that's -- if we talked about greater than $75 million, the cash cost of that will be less than a one year payback.

因此，如果我們談論的金額超過 7500 萬美元，那麼其現金成本將低於一年的投資回收期。

So I think when you roll it all up, total cash spend on cash cost synergies plus there's no cost actions somewhere pretty close to this year.

因此，我認為，當你將其全部匯總時，現金成本協同效應的總現金支出加上今年附近沒有任何成本行動。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ghansham Panjabi, Baird.

甘沙姆‧潘嘉比 (Ghansham Panjabi)，貝爾德 (Baird)。

Guys.

夥計們。

Good morning.

早安.

Lori, going back to your prepared comments and also the comments from this morning, weakness in China and autos, et cetera.

洛里，回到你準備好的評論以及今天早上的評論，中國和汽車的疲軟等等。

And none of that is truly all that surprising relative to what your peers have been saying as well, but the dividend cut is.

相對於你的同業所說的，這些都不是真正令人驚訝的，但股息削減卻令人驚訝。

So going back to that component, is the dividend cut more a function of you not seeing or anticipating a recovery in 2025 relative to your initial plan or are you anticipating a much more worsening of the trend line, if you will, near term just given the uncertainty that's out there?

因此，回到這個部分，股息削減更多是因為您沒有看到或預期 2025 年相對於您最初的計劃會出現復甦，還是您預計趨勢線會更加惡化（如果您願意的話），近期剛剛給出那裡的不確定性？

How should we sort of think about those two dynamics?

我們該如何思考這兩種動態？

Yes, I would think about it in two parts.

是的，我會分成兩個部分來考慮。

One is the performance we've experienced in '24 and the reduction in free cash flow we've had in '24, although, we have sufficient cash for the debt that is due next year.

一是我們在 24 年經歷的業績以及我們在 24 年自由現金流的減少，儘管我們有足夠的現金來償還明年到期的債務。

We just aren't deleveraging as quickly as we like, right?

我們只是沒有像我們希望的那樣快地去槓桿化，對吧？

Our EBITDA is lower.

我們的 EBITDA 較低。

We haven't been able to pay down additional cash towards the debt.

我們無法償還債務的額外現金。

And then if you look at '25 and beyond there is so much uncertainty.

如果你看看 25 年及以後，你會發現很多不確定性。

We feel it's prudent to be prepared for that and to stay on track with our deleveraging plan.

我們認為為此做好準備並堅持我們的去槓桿計劃是謹慎的做法。

And again, the most cost effective and prudent way to do that is by reducing the dividend at this time.

再說一遍，最經濟有效和最謹慎的方法是減少此時的股息。

Okay.

好的。

And then going back to the delayed draw term loan.

然後回到延遲提取定期貸款。

Was the dividend cut part of that sort of process in terms of securing that loan?

就確保貸款而言，削減股息是此類過程的一部分嗎？

Just trying to get some context behind that.

只是想了解背後的背景。

And then separately, on the $75 million program targeting SG&A.

然後分別針對 SG&A 的 7500 萬美元計劃。

Is that to adjust to the new baseline of volumes or are you still assuming some sort of recovery as it relates to the operating dynamics, '25, '26 onwards?

這是為了適應新的銷售基準，還是您仍然假設某種與營運動態相關的復甦，'25、'26 以後？

So let me answer the second part and then Chuck can answer the first part.

所以讓我回答第二部分，然後查克可以回答第一部分。

So the $75 million is additional identified cost cutting to better adjust our SG&A organization towards the current level of demand.

因此，7500 萬美元是額外確定的成本削減，以便更好地調整我們的 SG&A 組織以滿足當前的需求水準。

It's also -- we also believe as we get more efficient as our systems get more mature, now that we've gotten through our new system implementations.

我們也相信，隨著我們的系統變得更加成熟，我們的效率也會變得更高，現在我們已經完成了新的系統實施。

We also believe though it will be an area that will -- or a level we will be able to sustain even if we start to see some demand recovery.

我們也相信，即使我們開始看到需求有所復甦，這也將是我們能夠維持的領域。

Ghansham, on your other question.

甘沙姆，關於你的另一個問題。

Those two are not tied together.

這兩者並沒有綁在一起。

The delayed draw term loan is something was put in place to help us bridge those maturities.

延遲提款定期貸款是為了幫助我們彌補這些到期問題而製定的。

And the dividend cash is because we made a commitment to deleverage this balance sheet to 3 times, and we're not doing that as fast as we want to.

股利現金是因為我們承諾將資產負債表去槓桿化至三倍，但我們並沒有像我們希望的那樣快地做到這一點。

Very clear.

非常清楚。

Thank you both.

謝謝你們倆。

Josh Spector, UBS.

喬許‧斯佩克特，瑞銀集團。

Hi, good morning.

嗨，早安。

I was wondering if you could just talk about your view on the earnings power of Engineered Materials at this point.

我想知道您是否可以談談您對工程材料盈利能力的看法。

I guess if I look at 3Q, you were up year-on-year, your EBIT level volumes were up but that's supposed to be a bigger chunk of the synergy savings and maybe a bit before you're seeing some of the negatives of the actions you're taking in fourth quarter.

我想，如果我看看第三季度，你會發現同比增長，你的息稅前利潤水平也有所上升，但這應該是協同節省的很大一部分，也許在你看到一些負面影響之前。在第四季採取的行動。

So if you can maybe look at second half and talk about some of the puts and takes that we should be thinking about and some thoughts on the back of our heads are more around if there's something impaired around the nylon side of things, either pricing or share loss that means earnings are structurally lower than what we should have thought a year or two ago?

因此，如果你可以看看下半年，談談我們應該考慮的一些看跌期權和看跌期權，以及我們頭腦中的一些想法，如果尼龍方面存在一些受損的情況，無論是定價還是股票虧損意味著盈利在結構上低於我們一兩年前的預期？

So that's a lot of thoughts in one question.

所以一個問題有很多想法。

So let me just talk about how I see, my view of the EM business.

那麼讓我來談談我對新興市場業務的看法。

So the EM business, our long term view of the EM business has not changed.

所以對於新興市場業務，我們對新興市場業務的長期看法並沒有改變。

I mean we still feel we have the most unparalleled portfolio of engineered materials.

我的意思是，我們仍然認為我們擁有最無與倫比的工程材料組合。

We have a structure that really drives in a very disciplined way, new projects, growth into new customers, growth into new applications.

我們擁有一個真正以非常嚴格的方式推動新專案、新客戶成長、新應用程式成長的結構。

And while we continue to improve all those as well as improve our cost structure, this is fundamentally a very good business, still in demand by our customers who demand innovation and who want to buy products from us.

雖然我們不斷改進所有這些並改善我們的成本結構，但這從根本上來說是一項非常好的業務，仍然受到需要創新並希望從我們這裡購買產品的客戶的需求。

So what we're seeing is a short term turn down.

所以我們看到的是短期的下降。

I also wouldn't just focus on nylon.

我也不會只關注尼龍。

I mean PA66 is certainly challenged at this point with an oversupply of non-differentiated polymer.

我的意思是，PA66 目前肯定面臨非差異化聚合物供應過剩的挑戰。

But I would say our focus on PA66 is really on the differentiated polymer, the compounding and that's why you've seen us take all of the steps that we've done.

但我想說的是，我們對 PA66 的關注點實際上是差異化聚合物和複合，這就是為什麼您看到我們採取了我們完成的所有步驟。

I would say for M&M, in particular, even if PA66 is less than we originally thought, many of the other parts of the acquisition, such as Mylar, or Vamac, or Hytrel or high temperature nylon are outperforming where we thought they'd be at this time.

我想說，特別是對於 M&M，即使 PA66 低於我們最初的預期，收購的許多其他部分，例如 Mylar、Vamac、Hytrel 或高溫尼龍，其表現也優於我們預期的水平。

So in aggregate, we still see the value of the MM acquisition and the value of the total EM portfolio as being as strong as it ever will be once we get back to a more normalized demand condition.

因此，總的來說，一旦我們回到更正常化的需求狀況，我們仍然認為MM收購的價值和整個新興市場投資組合的價值將一如既往地強勁。

Okay, thanks.

好的，謝謝。

Maybe one quick follow-up, just I guess, thinking about the synergy side then within 3Q.

也許是一個快速的後續行動，只是我猜想，然後在第三季度內考慮協同方面。

So I guess some context here is that volumes were up.

所以我想這裡的一些背景是成交量增加了。

Obviously, things deteriorated later in the quarter, but we didn't see the flow through in 2Q -- or in 3Q.

顯然，情況在本季晚些時候惡化，但我們沒有看到第二季或第三季的流量。

So what offset that?

那麼什麼抵消了這一點呢？

If you think about the synergy, what were the minuses that led us to only up 10 in the quarter?

如果您考慮一下協同效應，是什麼導致我們在本季僅成長了 10 倍？

Yes, I think there is some timing around inventory, Josh, that has rolled through both in the quarter as well on a year-over-year basis.

是的，喬希，我認為庫存存在一些時間安排，該庫存在本季度和同比上都已經完成。

So that played a role there.

所以這在那裡發揮了作用。

Also pricing.

還有定價。

As we called out, we've seen degradation in standard grade pricing, which has been the other bigger offset.

正如我們所指出的，我們已經看到標準等級定價的下降，這是另一個更大的抵消。

So I think those are the two biggest chunks.

所以我認為這是兩個最大的部分。

I think when you look at things on a year-over-year basis for the year end total, volume up, price/cost mix up positive, spending down.

我認為，當你逐年觀察年末總量時，銷量增加，價格/成本混合積極，支出下降。

So another positive there.

這是另一個積極因素。

Offset currency, we've had some headwinds on currency year-over-year, both in the quarter and for the full year and then turnarounds in inventory.

抵銷貨幣影響，我們在本季和全年以及庫存週轉方面都遇到了同比貨幣方面的一些阻力。

So I think that's where it's been offset.

所以我認為這就是它被抵消的地方。

And so we do believe in the earnings power, as Laurie Lori talked about, but that doesn't mean we're just going to live with where we are today.

因此，正如勞瑞·洛里（Laurie Lori）所說，我們確實相信獲利能力，但這並不意味著我們會安於現狀。

And that's why we talked heavily about the actions we're going to take both in the business as well as the corporate level on cost and then continuing to aggressively work pipeline and drive close wins.

這就是為什麼我們大量討論了我們將在業務和公司層面採取的成本行動，然後繼續積極工作管道並推動最終勝利。

So one of the big synergy areas we talked about for '25 and beyond is revenue synergies.

因此，我們討論的 25 年及以後的重大協同領域之一是收入綜效。

And so we need to deliver on that going into next year to continue to uplift the possible earnings power of the business.

因此，我們需要在明年實現這一目標，以繼續提高業務的可能獲利能力。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Arun Viswanathan, RBC Capital Markets.

阿倫‧維斯瓦納坦 (Arun Viswanathan)，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場部。

Great.

偉大的。

Thanks for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Maybe I could ask the Q4 guidance question again.

也許我可以再問一下第四季的指導問題。

So if we think about going from around 2.50 for Q3 or 2.44 down to $1.25 for Q4.

因此，如果我們考慮從第三季的 2.50 美元左右或第四季的 2.44 美元降至 1.25 美元。

Maybe could you break that out maybe into some buckets of seasonality and how much is associated with the inventory draw downs and maybe some incremental weakness in auto and industrial or any other end markets that would be helpful?

也許您可以將其分解為一些季節性因素，以及與庫存下降相關的程度，以及汽車和工業或任何其他終端市場的一些增量疲軟，這會有所幫助嗎？

Thanks.

謝謝。

So I think on the acetyl side of things, it's seasonality.

所以我認為在乙醯基方面，這是季節性的。

So call it roughly in that $20 million range.

因此，大致將其稱為 2000 萬美元的範圍。

So I'd put that to seasonality, Arun.

所以我會把它歸咎於季節性，阿倫。

On the corporate cost side of things, that's really timing of cost flow through there more than anything.

在企業成本方面，最重要的是成本流經的時機。

And then it's really engineered materials and kind of looking at where we are there, and those are the big buckets we called out in the prepared comments.

然後是真正的工程材料，看看我們所處的位置，這些是我們在準備好的評論中提出的大目標。

So destock of about $45 million, which is probably a little seasonality in that number.

因此，庫存減少了約 4500 萬美元，這個數字可能有點季節性。

We have mix which is really all seasonality of about $15 million.

我們的組合實際上是季節性的，價值約 1500 萬美元。

Affiliates are down $15 million.

附屬公司減少了 1500 萬美元。

Again, that one is more seasonality driven.

同樣，這一點更受季節性驅動。

And then you've got the inventory and absorption costs, which is really the balance there.

然後你就得到了庫存和吸收成本，這實際上是那裡的平衡。

So when you kind of put that in there in the Engineered Materials buckets, it's $30 million, maybe a little bit more than that, but seasonality from the affiliates in that mix bucket we talked about in addition to the acetyls number.

因此，當你把它放在工程材料桶中時，它是 3000 萬美元，可能比這個多一點，但除了乙醯基數量之外，我們還討論了我們討論的混合桶中附屬公司的季節性。

Great.

偉大的。

Thanks, Scott.

謝謝，斯科特。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

So just taking that a step further into Q1 then.

那麼，就將這一點進一步納入第一季。

Do you anticipate these actions that you are taking on the inventory side to allow you to -- is that the complete inventory actions that you have to take?

您是否預計在庫存方面採取的這些行動允許您—這是您必須採取的完整庫存行動？

And so when you look into Q1, you won't necessarily have those drags and you also may have less seasonality so that could get you back closer to maybe $2 or so in Q1?

因此，當您查看第一季時，您不一定會受到這些拖累，而且季節性也可能會減少，因此這可能會讓您在第一季回到接近 2 美元左右的水平？

Or how are you thinking about how that evolves and maybe some of the bad guys that won't repeat in Q1?

或者你如何看待這種情況如何演變，也許有些壞人不會在第一季重演？

Thanks, guys.

謝謝，夥計們。

Let me start kind of high-level Now I'll turn it to Chuck to provide details on the inventory flow through.

讓我從高層開始。

And look, we are constantly looking at really matching our production levels with where on demand is that and given where things are in a need here with what we've seen from a destock perspective to take plant rates down, bring inventory down, this is a level of inventory that we've been pretty clear we wanted to reduce for the year.

看，我們一直在尋找真正將我們的生產水平與需求相匹配，並考慮到這裡需要的東西，以及我們從去庫存的角度看到的，以降低工廠率，降低庫存，這就是我們已經非常明確地希望今年減少庫存水準。

We expected it to be split a little bit more balanced between Q3 and Q4, a little bit more Q4, heavy, given where we're and then we'll look at what point rates need to look like in the fourth quarter dependent on what the order book looks like it when we get to that point.

我們預計第三季和第四季之間的分配會更加平衡，第四季會更加平衡，考慮到我們所處的位置，然後我們將看看第四季度的點率需要是什麼樣子，具體取決當我們到達這一點時，訂單簿看起來就像這樣。

Let me start kind of high level and I'll turn it to Chuck to provide details on inventory flow through.

讓我從高層次開始，然後我將把它交給查克，以提供有關庫存流向的詳細資訊。

Look, we are constantly looking at really matching our production levels with where demand is at.

看，我們一直在尋找真正使我們的生產水平與需求相匹配的方法。

And given where things are and a need here with what we've seen from a destock perspective to take plant rates down, bring inventory down.

考慮到目前的情況以及我們從去庫存的角度看到的需要，降低工廠利用率，降低庫存。

This is a level of inventory that we've been pretty clear we wanted to reduce for the year.

我們已經非常明確地希望今年減少這個庫存水準。

We expected it to be split a little bit more balanced between Q3 and Q4, a little bit more Q4 heavy, given where we're at.

考慮到我們目前的情況，我們預計第三季和第四季的分配會更加平衡，第四季會更加重一些。

And then we'll look at what plant rates need to look like in the fourth quarter depending on what the order book looks like and when we get to that point.

然後我們將根據訂單情況以及何時達到這一點，看看第四季度的工廠費率需要是什麼樣子。

Yes, I think it's going to be really important for us to manage to generate free cash flow that will make these decisions.

是的，我認為對我們來說，設法產生自由現金流來做出這些決定非常重要。

And if we're [preferencing] cash flow, you could see some see some P&L from some of those cost flow throughs, but it's important for us to generate free cash flow here and deleverage this balance sheet.

如果我們[偏好]現金流，您可能會看到一些人從其中一些成本流中看到一些損益，但對我們來說，在這裡產生自由現金流並去槓桿化資產負債表很重要。

Excellent.

出色的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Frank Mitsch, Fermium Research.

弗蘭克米奇，費米研究中心。

Hi, everyone.

大家好。

It's [Aziza] on for Frank.

弗蘭克的[阿齊札]上場了。

Just want to start off with Chinese VAM margins sitting at a decade low here with the lackluster demand and new capacity.

只是想從中國的 VAM 利潤率處於十年來的低點開始，因為需求和新增產能低迷。

How long are you guys thinking it might take to absorb?

你們認為吸收可能需要多久？

Look, I think the reabsorption for acetyls is really going to depend on when we start to see demand recovery.

看，我認為乙醯基的重吸收實際上取決於我們何時開始看到需求復甦。

I mean we've called out now for many quarters the reduction we've seen in the construction, paint and coatings market.

我的意思是，我們已經在多個季度中呼籲建築、油漆和塗料市場出現下滑。

We've also seen demand destruction for derivatives, particularly in China for things like EVA into the solar markets and some other.

我們也看到衍生性商品的需求受到破壞，特別是在中國，太陽能市場和其他市場的 EVA 等產品的需求受到破壞。

So it's pretty impossible now to predict like how quickly that can be reabsorbed.

所以現在幾乎不可能預測它能以多快的速度被重新吸收。

It really will -- it's more dependent at this point on the shape of demand going forward.

它確實會——目前它更依賴未來需求的形狀。

Because of that unpredictability, it is absolutely imperative that the team continues to maximize daily where we're selling product and look at where those opportunities are.

由於這種不可預測性，團隊絕對有必要繼續在每天銷售產品的地方最大化並尋找這些機會。

And so the team is being very surgical on looking at how we want to monetize the molecules of acetic acid, downstream into VAM and then into the derivatives and looking for, is it better to sell an emulsion, a powder, VAM.

因此，團隊非常認真地研究如何將醋酸分子貨幣化，下游進入 VAM，然後進入衍生性商品，並尋找銷售乳液、粉末、VAM 是否更好。

And given the challenges we've seen in VAM, we've moved further downstream and we'll continue to pivot up or down depending on where those opportunities are at.

鑑於我們在 VAM 中看到的挑戰，我們已經進一步向下游移動，我們將繼續根據這些機會的位置向上或向下調整。

Understood.

明白了。

And I was just curious, what are your expectations for the fourth quarter and early read on to 2025?

我只是很好奇，您對第四季和 2025 年的早期預期有何期望？

Just to clarify, fourth quarter in general or fourth quarter for acetyls?

只是為了澄清一下，第四季是一般還是第四季是乙醯基？

In general, just raw material expectations for the company for the fourth quarter and 2025.

整體而言，僅是公司對第四季和2025年的原物料預期。

Raw material right now for the fourth quarter is largely stable as we look at things today, but obviously, that can change.

從我們今天的情況來看，目前第四季的原材料基本上穩定，但顯然，這種情況可能會改變。

And I think a lot will depend upon where fundamental energy dynamics are at as we go into 2025.

我認為，很大程度上將取決於進入 2025 年時基本能源動態的狀況。

So we'll continue to remain flexible.

因此，我們將繼續保持靈活性。

One of the elements that we're focused on here at year end is reducing raw material inventory as well as finished goods inventory, which will give us the ability to be flexible depending on what happens with raws next year.

我們在年底關注的因素之一是減少原材料庫存和成品庫存，這將使我們能夠根據明年原材料的情況靈活應對。

Thank you.

謝謝。

David Begleiter, Deutsche Bank.

大衛‧貝格萊特，德意志銀行。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Good morning.

早安.

Laurie and Scott, going back to the comment on supercharging the portfolio or the project pipeline EM.

Laurie 和 Scott，回到關於增強投資組合或專案管道 EM 的評論。

This used to be a strength of this business from my perception, it's now being called out as an area of weakness.

從我的角度來看，這曾經是該業務的優勢，但現在被稱為劣勢領域。

So obviously, the business has changed with DuPont.

顯然，杜邦的業務已經改變了。

But what's really underlying the change and that it's gone from a position of strength to perhaps a position that needs to be improved?

但這種變化背後的真正原因是什麼？

The pipeline model is still a position of strength, dated, and there's no question about that for us.

管道模型仍然是一種優勢，但已經過時了，這對我們來說是毫無疑問的。

And the stats that we have proved that.

我們的統計數據也證明了這一點。

The size of projects being up over 30% year-over-year is a really good example.

專案規模年增超過30%就是一個很好的例子。

Our project win rates are also up since the acquisition.

自收購以來，我們的專案中標率也有所上升。

And so the issue we're seeing now, though, is the amount of volume that's coming with each of those projects is smaller.

但我們現在看到的問題是，每個項目的數量都較小。

In addition, the amount of challenges we've seen in the base has come both from a volume perspective and a pricing standpoint.

此外，我們在基地看到的挑戰數量既來自數量角度，也來自定價角度。

So the pipeline needs to be enhanced and needs to be bigger in order to offset some of those headwinds that we're seeing.

因此，管道需要加強並且需要更大，以抵消我們所看到的一些不利因素。

So when we talk about supercharging, it's not a confirmation on where things that it's just the opposite.

因此，當我們談論超級充電時，這並不是對事情的確認，而是恰恰相反。

It is a strength of this business.

這是該業務的優勢。

We feel like it can do more and we're going to continue to invest resources and partner with customers in a way that allows us to be successful, because we need the pipeline to be generating more in this environment.

我們覺得它可以做更多事情，我們將繼續投資資源並與客戶合作，讓我們成功，因為我們需要管道在這種環境中產生更多收益。

That's helpful, Scott, thank you.

這很有幫助，斯科特，謝謝你。

And just on Singapore, given new supply in China, can Singapore be brought back online unless -- or do you need trying to recover strongly for Singapore to be brought back into production?

就新加坡而言，考慮到中國的新供應，新加坡能否恢復生產，除非——或者您是否需要努力強勁復甦以使新加坡恢復生產？

So we do expect that Singapore will come back online.

因此，我們確實預計新加坡將恢復正常運作。

I mean, Singapore is still economic to run, especially into the non-China Asia market.

我的意思是，新加坡仍然具有經濟運作能力，尤其是進入中國以外的亞洲市場。

And remains an important part of our portfolio and very much in line with how we'd like to have the optionality about what we produce and where we produce and into what market.

它仍然是我們產品組合的重要組成部分，並且非常符合我們對生產什麼、在哪裡生產以及進入哪個市場的選擇權。

And so our expectation is that, and because it is so profitable, we do expect that portfolio, we'll continue to come online and run as needed.

因此，我們的期望是，由於它是如此有利可圖，我們確實期望該投資組合將繼續上線並根據需要運行。

Fortunately, we have the flexibility there now because of the structure of our contracts that we can make that choice more than we did in the past.

幸運的是，由於我們的合約結構，我們現在擁有靈活性，我們可以比過去做出更多的選擇。

But much like we're using Frankfurt as kind of our swing VAM capacity, more and more we'll see Singapore becoming more of our swing acetic acid capacity.

但就像我們使用法蘭克福作為我們的搖擺 VAM 產能一樣，我們將越來越多地看到新加坡成為我們搖擺醋酸產能的一部分。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Aleksey Yefremov, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Aleksey Yefremov，KeyBanc 資本市場。

Thanks and good morning.

謝謝，早安。

In EM, is the bigger issue that you're selling less volumes or is it that you're selling at lower prices?

在新興市場，更大的問題是銷售減少還是價格更低？

And are prices stable at this point or they're continuing to fall in Q4?

目前價格穩定還是第四季持續下跌？

So Aleksey, it's both.

所以阿列克謝，兩者都是。

I would say for differentiated products to keep -- the main impact has been around volume, because the pricing tends to be sticky.

我想說的是，對於差異化產品來說，主要影響是銷量，因為定價往往具有黏性。

But for standard grade products, it's more of an issue around -- we're able to sell the volumes but the issue is around price and margin.

但對於標準級產品來說，這更像是一個問題——我們能夠銷售大量產品，但問題在於價格和利潤。

And also in EM, are you pulling inventory below normalized level in Q4 such that you may need to rebuild it in 2025 or you need to get back to your normal inventory seasonality at the year end?

同樣在新興市場，您是否會在第四季度將庫存拉至正常水平以下，以便您可能需要在 2025 年重建庫存，或者需要在年底恢復到正常的庫存季節性？

I would not expect we'll be below normalized levels, Aleksey, unless we see a change in demand levels.

阿列克謝，我預計我們不會低於正常水平，除非我們看到需求水平發生變化。

Okay.

好的。

Thanks a lot.

多謝。

Patrick Cunningham, Citibank.

派崔克‧坎寧安，花旗銀行。

Hi, good morning.

嗨，早安。

I wanted to follow up on the project pipeline.

我想跟進專案進度。

It's encouraging to see the value per project has increased 30% since 2022.

自 2022 年以來，每個項目的價值增加了 30%，令人鼓舞。

Are there any secular growth markets or applications where you're getting the most traction?

是否存在最受您關注的長期成長市場或應用？

And any strategic shift or change in thinking as how you approach auto OEM customer base given the recent weakness?

鑑於最近的疲軟，您在如何接近汽車原始設備製造商客戶群方面有任何策略轉變或思維變化嗎？

Well, look, I think where we're seeing change in the mix of where -- who's winning from an OEM perspective.

嗯，看，我認為我們在混合方面看到了變化——從 OEM 的角度來看，誰在獲勝。

And as we think about this with China still growing and Chinese OEMs being more successful, a continued focus there in winning in China is very important.

當我們考慮到中國仍在成長且中國原始設備製造商更加成功時，持續關注在中國取得勝利非常重要。

And so we have seen some wins just recently.

所以我們最近看到了一些勝利。

We're very focused on the EV market.

我們非常關注電動車市場。

We've had really good traction in things like thermal management models, cooling houses, light weighting on the auto side of things.

我們在熱管理模型、冷卻室、汽車輕量化等方面取得了非常好的進展。

But then on the non-auto side of things, if you recall, this was one of our most important areas of synergies, really getting the M&M products into nonautomotive applications in a much bigger way.

但在非汽車方面，如果你還記得的話，這是我們最重要的協同效應領域之一，真正將 M&M 產品以更大的方式進入非汽車應用。

We did that historically in the Celanese Engineered Materials portfolio and we're heavy focused on it.

我們在塞拉尼斯工程材料產品組合中曾經這樣做過，我們非常關注它。

We've had some wins in things like oil well pipes with flexible covers around those.

我們在油井管等帶有柔性蓋的產品方面取得了一些成果。

Just recently, we've been heavily focused around high performance athletic shoes with some big wins there with products that are creating, particularly in running shoe applications, increased performance.

就在最近，我們一直專注於高性能運動鞋，並在產品方面取得了一些重大勝利，特別是在跑鞋應用中，提高了性能。

And so really good uptick and those are global opportunities.

確實有很好的成長，這些都是全球機會。

And so the team is working on not just having these singular wins and focused heavily around once we get a win, sharing that translation opportunity across the globe so that we can be penetrating with each of these as much as possible in a much shorter time frame.

因此，團隊不僅致力於獲得這些單一的勝利，而且在我們獲得勝利後重點關注，在全球範圍內分享翻譯機會，以便我們能夠在更短的時間內盡可能多地滲透到每一個勝利中。

The nice thing about nonautomotive is the projects tend to move through the pipeline quicker.

非汽車行業的好處是專案往往會更快地通過管道。

And so that's why that heavy focus around non-auto is really important as we go into '25 and '26.

這就是為什麼當我們進入 25 和 26 世紀時，專注於非汽車產業非常重要。

I would add, one of the sectors that Scott didn't talk about that we're very excited about is electrical and electronics.

我想補充一點，斯科特沒有談論但我們非常興奮的行業之一是電氣和​​電子產品。

And if you think about the demand for electricity current outlook is that that's going to double over the next five years, and that requires a lot of build-out of electrical infrastructure.

如果你考慮一下目前的電力需求，未來五年電力需求將會翻一番，這需要大量建造電力基礎設施。

And we are seeing the pull through of polymer demand as part of that build out.

我們看到聚合物需求的成長是這項建設的一部分。

Very helpful.

非常有幫助。

How committed is Celanese [investment] grade rating?

塞拉尼斯[投資]等級評級的承諾程度如何？

Would you consider issuing additional equity to preserve this rating or do you believe the current steps you've taken are enough?

您是否會考慮發行額外股權以維持此評級，或者您認為您目前採取的措施是否足夠？

We're committed to deleveraging this balance sheet to 3 times net debt to EBITDA as fast as we can to get it there.

我們致力於盡快將資產負債表去槓桿化至 EBITDA 淨債務的 3 倍，以實現這一目標。

As Lori mentioned, we've assessed a variety of options to support that and determine what the support of the Board that -- but given the challenging environment and our goals that the announcement of our intention to reduce the dividend was the prudent action to take.

正如洛里所提到的，我們已經評估了多種支持這項方案的選項，並確定了董事會的支持——但考慮到充滿挑戰的環境和我們的目標，宣布我們打算減少股息是採取的審慎行動。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Kevin McCarthy, Vertical Research Partners.

凱文·麥卡錫，垂直研究夥伴。

Thank you and good morning.

謝謝你，早安。

Just to follow up on the prior question.

只是為了跟進之前的問題。

If I look at your term structure, you've got the billion senior unsecured notes in March that presumably the delay draw term loan will take care of.

如果我看看你們的期限結構，你們在三月就有了十億美元的優先無擔保票據，大概延遲提取定期貸款就能解決這些問題。

But beyond that 1.5 billion in '26 and 3.4 billion in '27 in.

但除此之外，26 年有 15 億，27 年有 34 億。

So to get to that three turns of leverage goal based on the current glide path of EBITDA, it seems like you've got some heavy lifting ahead.

因此，要根據目前 EBITDA 的下滑路徑實現三輪槓桿目標，看來您還有一些艱鉅的任務要做。

And so would you consider a mandatory convert and, or acceleration of the divestiture options to try to take some of the pressure off your ongoing efforts to deleverage?

那麼，您是否會考慮強制轉換或加速剝離方案，以減輕您正在進行的去槓桿化努力的壓力？

Well, we're working divestitures as aggressive as we can, the ones that make sense, Kevin, and the timing of this could be uncertain.

好吧，我們正在盡可能積極地進行剝離，那些有意義的剝離，凱文，但剝離的時間可能是不確定的。

I think the other thing you mentioned kind of falls in the category of other things that we have considered, right?

我認為你提到的另一件事屬於我們考慮過的其他事情的範疇，對嗎？

So -- and again, kind of -- for the Board took the path of -- intention to reduce the dividend.

因此，董事會採取了減少股利的意圖。

I mean, I think looking forward to those maturities, we've got access to various outlets in the capital markets and we're going to deleverage with the cash that we generate and the cash that we achieved through any things like divestitures, and we'll look and see what the prudent approach is on our capital structure with these access to various capital markets, outlets and balance cost and risk on that and our capital structure at all times.

我的意思是，我認為期待這些到期日，我們可以進入資本市場的各個管道，我們將利用我們產生的現金以及透過資產剝離等方式獲得的現金進行去槓桿化，我們我們將審視我們的資本結構採取的審慎方法，包括進入各種資本市場、管道，並始終平衡資本結構和資本結構的成本和風險。

As a second question, if I may, a lot of chemical companies are reviewing their asset footprints, particularly so in Europe, as you know.

作為第二個問題，如果可以的話，許多化學公司正在審查他們的資產足跡，特別是在歐洲，正如你所知。

I think in years past, Celanese took a hard look at Asia.

我認為在過去的幾年裡，塞拉尼斯認真審視了亞洲。

Lori, and listening to your comments, it sounds to me like you're thinking of Singapore as a keeper, so to speak.

洛里，聽你的評論，我覺得你認為新加坡是個守門員，可以這麼說。

I would like to ask you more broadly though, do you have plans to reexamine the asset footprint anywhere in the world or are we going to play the cards we're dealt, so to speak, for the near term?

不過，我想更廣泛地問您，您是否計劃重新檢查世界各地的資產足跡，或者我們是否會在短期內按我們手中的牌行事？

I'd say Celanese has always been known for being very aggressive about footprint optimization and we look at it continuously.

我想說，塞拉尼斯一直以在佔地面積優化方面非常積極而聞名，我們不斷關注這一點。

I mean if you go back over even just the five years I've been here, we have we have made decisions around shutting down, reoptimizing our footprint, something almost every year.

我的意思是，如果你回顧我在這裡的五年，我們幾乎每年都會做出關於關閉、重新優化我們的足跡的決定。

Now that we have added the assets from the M&M acquisition, we have been going through that process again.

現在我們已經增加了 M&M 收購的資產，我們再次經歷了這個過程。

And you've already seen us make announcement around intro and facility in Argentina and some other facilities around the world.

您已經看到我們發布了關於阿根廷和世界各地其他一些設施的介紹和設施的公告。

And we are really looking now on a combined basis what does that footprint optimization look like.

我們現在確實在綜合考慮足跡優化是什麼樣的。

Again, you've seen some of the announcements we've already made.

同樣，您已經看到了我們已經發布的一些公告。

Mechelen, which will be shut down now in 2025, that activity will continue because it's what we normally do.

梅赫倫將於 2025 年關閉，但活動將繼續進行，因為這是我們通常所做的事情。

We constantly reassess and reevaluate what is the right footprint for us given where our customers are and what our demand profiles look like?

鑑於我們的客戶在哪裡以及我們的需求概況如何，我們不斷地重新評估什麼是適合我們的足跡？

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Hassan Ahmed, Alembic Global.

哈桑·艾哈邁德 (Hassan Ahmed)，Alembic Global。

Morning, Laurie and Scott.

早上好，勞瑞和史考特。

A question around -- I mean, you guys have always done a very good job at matching production with demand.

一個問題是——我的意思是，你們在匹配生產與需求方面一直做得很好。

And obviously, it seems Q3 and Q4 of this year -- from the commentary, it seems auto production kind of surprised you guys and the like.

顯然，今年第三季和第四季——從評論來看，汽車產量似乎讓你們等人感到驚訝。

So just a broader question around just forecasting how you guys are looking at the order books, forecasting based off of that, particularly in light of what appears to be significant changes in customer buying patterns, how customers are thinking, it seems buying patterns are more just in time.

因此，這是一個更廣泛的問題，圍繞著預測你們如何看待訂單簿，基於此進行預測，特別是考慮到客戶購買模式的重大變化，客戶的想法，似乎購買模式更重要。

It seems customers through lessons learned through COVID or keeping leaner and leaner inventory levels.

客戶似乎透過新冠疫情吸取了教訓，或者保持了越來越精簡的庫存水準。

So are you -- do you think those customer habits are sustainable on a go forward basis or just a function of this erratic sort of macro we're in?

那麼您是否認為這些客戶習慣是可持續的，還是只是我們所處的這種不穩定的宏觀環境的一個功能？

And how are you guys adapting in terms of forecasting and matching sort of your production with that demand in this environment?

你們如何適應這種環境下的預測與配合你們的生產與需求？

Let me ask Scott to address the broader question.

讓我請斯科特回答更廣泛的問題。

But I would just say, really, if you look at the inventory situation we have in the third quarter, we had really been building inventory across the first half for two reasons.

但我只想說，實際上，如果你看看我們第三季的庫存情況，你會發現我們在上半年確實一直在建立庫存，原因有兩個。

One, an expectation, particularly in auto of an upturn in the second half, which is being called out by the majority of our customers and the indices, as well as we had built some inventory because we were doing footprint optimization.

一是預計下半年會好轉，尤其是汽車行業，我們的大多數客戶和指數都在呼籲這一點，而且我們已經建立了一些庫存，因為我們正在進行足跡優化。

So we were building inventory so that we could shut facilities down and switch customers to new facilities.

因此，我們正在建立庫存，以便我們可以關閉設施並將客戶轉移到新設施。

When we got into third quarter, we acquired raw materials, anticipating a normal level of builds, if you will.

當我們進入第三季時，我們購買了原材料，預計建造水平將達到正常水平（如果你願意的話）。

And then when we saw demand really dropped down midway through the quarter, we slowed production now but we still sit there.

然後，當我們看到需求在本季中期確實下降時，我們現在放慢了生產速度，但我們仍然坐在那裡。

So a lot of the inventory we built in the third quarter was actually around raw.

因此，我們在第三季建立的許多庫存實際上都是原材料。

So there's some very specific dynamics around third quarter.

因此，第三季有一些非常具體的動態。

But I mean, your question is a fair one, which is how are we looking at customer demand and forecasting because it is changing slightly.

但我的意思是，你的問題是一個公平的問題，我們如何看待客戶需求和預測，因為它正在發生輕微的變化。

So let me hand that to Scott.

讓我把它交給斯科特。

Hassan, we have to remain very flexible.

哈桑，我們必須保持非常靈活。

And now that we're all on one system with the M&M business coming into the Celanese system in the first quarter, we are going through a process of really looking at where we make and how we make and run our network from an optimized basis right now.

現在我們都在一個系統上，M&M 業務在第一季度進入塞拉尼斯系統，我們正在經歷一個真正審視我們在哪裡製造以及如何從優化的基礎上製造和運行我們的網絡的過程。

And we're overlaying that with the changes that you kind of alluded to that are happening more or less in the Western Hemisphere.

我們將其與您提到的西半球或多或少發生的變化疊加起來。

The one thing you didn't mention that we also have to be very cognizant of is the rapid pace of change on who's winning, particularly in automotive in China.

你沒有提到的一件事我們也必須非常認識到，誰是贏家的變化速度很快，特別是在中國的汽車產業。

We've seen over the last year a rapid change of the Chinese OEMs taking a bigger share there.

去年我們看到中國整車廠的快速變化，在那裡佔據了更大的份額。

That has also driven an inventory rebalancing at the end user, customer base, that then we're feeling now.

這也推動了最終用戶、客戶群的庫存重新平衡，我們現在感受到了這一點。

And so we've got to make sure that we have adapted and our manufacturing footprint and how we operate our assets to where we need that product.

因此，我們必須確保我們的製造足跡以及我們如何將我們的資產運作到我們需要該產品的地方。

And as we go forward, at least in the short term, it's probably going to be a little heavier towards Asia.

隨著我們的前進，至少在短期內，亞洲的影響可能會更大一些。

And so optimizing those assets and making sure that we can respond to customer needs very quickly is something that the team is very much focused on.

因此，優化這些資產並確保我們能夠快速回應客戶需求是團隊非常關注的事情。

Very helpful.

非常有幫助。

And as a follow-up, obviously, a lot of questions around EM.

作為後續行動，顯然有很多關於 EM 的問題。

So I want to change gears a little bit and move to acetyls chain.

所以我想稍微改變一下方向，轉向乙醯基鏈。

The prepared remarks in reading those, it seemed you guys -- obviously, you guys reported continued sort of strong margins in that segment despite the headwinds the macro brings.

在閱讀這些內容時，你們似乎準備好了評論——顯然，你們報告稱，儘管宏觀經濟帶來了阻力，但該領域的利潤率仍然強勁。

And you guys talked about the sustainability of those margins within the Acetyl Chain segment.

你們討論了乙醯鏈領域這些利潤的可持續性。

What gives you guys the sort of comfort level in sort of believing that those margins are actually sustainable on a go-forward basis?

是什麼讓你們感到放心，相信這些利潤實際上是可持續的？

Hassan, I think a lot of it is global trade flows and what we've seen and how things have transpired and where the global cost curves sit, particularly on the upstream part of the value chain.

哈桑，我認為其中很大一部分是全球貿易流動、我們所看到的、事情是如何發生的以及全球成本曲線所在的位置，特別是在價值鏈的上游部分。

And so I do believe we've been able to exhibit resilience in that part of the value chain.

因此，我確實相信我們已經能夠在價值鏈的這一部分展現出彈​​性。

And then as you get further downstream, the amount of flexibility that we have in that part of the chain is a lot more than it ever has been before.

然後，當你進一步向下游發展時，我們在鏈條的這一部分所擁有的靈活性比以往任何時候都多得多。

And so the team has a lot more choices on where they can pivot, which does enhance our ability to drive earnings power, and some of that may just be offsetting headwinds.

因此，團隊在轉型方向上有更多選擇，這確實增強了我們推動獲利能力的能力，其中一些可能只是抵消了不利因素。

But because of that flexibility, we do believe that the sustainability margins in these ranges is kind of where we think they'll be.

但由於這種靈活性，我們確實相信這些範圍內的永續性利潤率正是我們所認為的。

And I would call out two additional factors.

我還想指出另外兩個因素。

One is we do have an advantaged technology for acetic acids, which gives us some cost advantage as well.

一是我們確實擁有先進的乙酸技術，也為我們帶來了一些成本優勢。

And then we have a very advantaged cost footprint in the US Gulf Coast with our largest acetic plant there, which we believe is the lowest cost and lowest carbon -- acetic acid plant in the world today.

然後，我們在美國墨西哥灣沿岸擁有非常有利的成本足跡，在那裡擁有我們最大的醋酸工廠，我們認為這是當今世界上成本最低、碳含量最低的醋酸工廠。

Thanks so much, Lori and Scott.

非常感謝洛瑞和斯科特。

Matthew Blair, Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Company.

馬修·布萊爾，都鐸·皮克林·霍爾特公司。

Thank you and good morning.

謝謝你，早安。

Can we circle back to the potential asset sales and could you say, would they be more targeted to the EM segment or the Acetyl Chain segment?

我們能否回到潛在的資產銷售，您能否說，它們是否更針對新興市場細分市場或乙醯鏈細分市場？

And then also on a regional basis, are you looking to sell assets in Europe or would this be kind of all over include US and Asia as well?

然後，從區域角度來看，您是否希望出售歐洲的資產，或者是否也包括美國和亞洲？

Yes.

是的。

Matthew, thanks for that question.

馬修，謝謝你提出這個問題。

Well, on divestitures, we have had a very robust look and a list of possible divestitures that we've been looking at, multiple opportunities for various sizes as we talked about on the call last quarter.

嗯，在資產剝離方面，我們已經有了非常穩健的外觀，並列出了我們一直在考慮的可能資產剝離清單，正如我們在上個季度的電話會議上談到的，各種規模的多種機會。

I would say we tend to look at these more in line with not as much even just specific assets as necessarily as you've seen us do in the past, maybe joint ventures or a very specific product line that we no longer fit with our portfolio or where someone values it more.

我想說的是，我們傾向於更多地關注這些，而不是像你過去看到的那樣，甚至只是特定資產，也許是合資企業或我們不再適合我們的投資組合的非常特定的產品線或者有人更看重它的地方。

So it's a combination of all of those things.

所以它是所有這些事情的組合。

So because of that, I wouldn't say it's really focused on any one region, although like our footprint optimization has been very focused on Europe, but even there, you've seen us do things throughout various regions.

因此，我不會說它真正專注於任何一個地區，儘管我們的足跡優化非常關注歐洲，但即使在那裡，你也看到我們在各個地區做事情。

So this is just really looking at what's the best fit for us going forward and where do we have assets that may be of more value to others.

因此，這只是真正考慮什麼最適合我們未來的發展，以及我們在哪裡擁有可能對其他人更有價值的資產。

Sounds good.

聽起來不錯。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And then could you also talk about what you're seeing in the European auto market so far in the fourth quarter?

那麼您能否談談第四季迄今歐洲汽車市場的情況？

It looks like Germany new car registrations picked up a little bit in October but some of the other markets might be a little sluggish.

十月德國新車註冊量似乎有所回升，但其他一些市場可能有點低迷。

Does that match with what you're seeing as well?

這也與您所看到的相符嗎？

Yes, we've taken the most recent data, Matthew, into our forecast that we're guiding to.

是的，馬修，我們已將最新數據納入我們的預測中。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

John Roberts, Mizuho Securities.

約翰·羅伯茨，瑞穗證券。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Back in 2018, Celanese and Blackstone drop plans to merge

早在 2018 年，塞拉尼斯和黑石就放棄了合併計劃

[Acetow].

[阿塞托]。

Do you think the environment has changed enough or maybe a different structure like a manufacturing JV might allow that opportunity to come back?

您認為環境是否已經發生了足夠的變化，或者像製造合資企業這樣的不同結構可能會讓這個機會回來？

Yes.

是的。

We've talked about this a lot, John.

我們已經討論過很多次了，約翰。

I would say we don't see any opportunities there for tow.

我想說我們看不到任何拖車的機會。

I mean, since we've been able to integrate it into the full Acetyl Chain, we do think that's the best place for it, that allows us to operate it as part of the chain and maximize the value of the chain.

我的意思是，由於我們已經能夠將其整合到完整的乙醯鏈中，我們確實認為這是它的最佳位置，這使我們能夠將其作為鏈的一部分進行操作並最大化鏈的價值。

And I think the things that prevented that from happening back in '18 in terms of regulatory concerns still exist today.

我認為 18 年因監管問題而阻止這種情況發生的事情今天仍然存在。

So I don't see that that's changed.

所以我認為這沒有改變。

Thank you.

謝謝。

There will make the next question or last one, please.

請提出下一個問題或最後一個問題。

Salvator Tiano, Bank of America.

薩爾瓦托·蒂亞諾，美國銀行。

Yes.

是的。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

So firstly, I want to trickle a bit.

首先，我想滴一點。

What are the lessons learned or what are the actions you intend to take going forward when it comes to things such as financial planning, forecasting guidance?

在財務規劃、預測指導等方面，您吸取了哪些經驗教訓或打算採取哪些行動？

Because coming back to one of the questions ask being earlier about auto builds and recognizing that at the day of the guidance of your Q2 results, S&P IHS was showing different numbers, of course.

因為回到先前提出的關於汽車製造的問題之一，並認識到在第二季業績指引發布之日，S&P IHS 當然顯示了不同的數字。

There were several other, I guess data points, including old suppliers that have very much outright said that auto builds are moving lower.

我猜還有其他幾個數據點，包括直接表示汽車產量正在下降的老供應商。

So it was something that essentially, I guess, should have been expected.

所以我想，這本質上就是應該預料到的事情。

And the same goes to the whole Acetyl Chain margin, where I think we've had a lot of discussions about new acetic acid and VAM supply this year and next, which haven't -- which didn't appear like it was taken in account as much at the beginning of the year.

整個乙醯鏈利潤率也是如此，我認為我們已經就今年和明年的新乙酸和 VAM 供應進行了很多討論，但還沒有——這看起來不像是被考慮在內的。

So given that and in hindsight, what are the -- what can be done to improve the forecasting here?

因此，考慮到這一點，事後看來，可以採取哪些措施來改善這裡的預測？

Look, Sal, we're going to continue to use the data that -- a variety of data sources to drive inputs into our forecast.

看，薩爾，我們將繼續使用各種資料來源的資料來推動我們的預測。

We also use customer forecast as well.

我們也使用客戶預測。

I think one of the things that we always adjust and we'll continue to adjust in this environment is how much we use historical statistics to be able to drive forecasting, just because in periods where demand is more volatile, that changes.

我認為，在這種環境下，我們始終要調整並將繼續調整的事情之一是，我們在多大程度上使用歷史統計數據來推動預測，因為在需求波動較大的時期，這種情況會發生變化。

And so we will continue to take that into account as we make our forecast.

因此，我們在做出預測時將繼續考慮這一點。

Okay, perfect.

好的，完美。

And I just wanted to clarify a little bit for next year.

我只是想為明年澄清一點。

It seems to us that there is both on acetyl and on VAM more capacity underlying in Asia.

在我們看來，亞洲的乙醯基和 VAM 產能都較高。

So is it fair to say that absent the Clear Lake contribution, the other whatever $50 million or so you get or other cost cutting measures, we should expect Acetyl earnings to be down in 2025 versus '24?

因此，公平地說，如果沒有 Clear Lake 的捐款，無論您獲得其他 5000 萬美元左右的資金或其他成本削減措施，我們應該預計 Acetyl 的收入在 2025 年將比 24 年有所下降？

Look, Sal, I wouldn't make any assumptions as of yet.

聽著，薩爾，我目前還不會做出任何假設。

As we've talked about, it's still early and looking ahead.

正如我們所討論的，現在還為時過早，展望未來。

Lori mentioned earlier what we would expect to get from Clear Lake.

洛里之前提到我們期望從克利爾湖得到什麼。

We're just going to have to see where demand is at and particularly in Asia, to see kind of where the margin levels will be as we get into next year.

我們只需要看看需求在哪裡，特別是在亞洲，看看明年的利潤水平會是多少。

And we'll provide more color on that when we get to the call in Q1.

當我們在第一季進行電話會議時，我們將提供更多資訊。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Well, thank you, everyone.

嗯，謝謝大家。

We would like to thank everyone for listening today.

我們要感謝大家今天的聆聽。

As always, we're available after the call for any follow-up questions.

像往常一樣，我們可以在通話後解答任何後續問題。

Darrel, please go ahead and close out the call.

達雷爾，請繼續結束通話。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This does conclude today's teleconference.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

We appreciate your participation.

我們感謝您的參與。

You may disconnect your lines at this time.

此時您可以斷開線路。

Enjoy the rest of your day.

享受你一天剩下的時間。