塞拉尼斯 (CE) 2020 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to Celanese Corporation Third Quarter 2020 Call and Webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加塞拉尼斯公司2020年第三季電話會議和網路直播。 （操作員指示）溫馨提示：本次會議正在錄製中。

It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Brandon Ayache, Senior Director, Investor Relations. Thank you. You may begin.

現在，我很高興介紹主持人，投資者關係高級總監布蘭登·阿亞什 (Brandon Ayache)。謝謝。您可以開始了。

Thank you, Doug. Welcome to the Celanese Corporation Third Quarter 2020 Earnings Conference Call. My name is Brandon Ayache, Senior Director of Investor Relations. With me today on the call are Lori Ryerkerk, Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer; and Scott Richardson, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝，道格。歡迎參加塞拉尼斯公司2020年第三季業績電話會議。我是投資者關係高級總監布蘭登·阿亞什 (Brandon Ayache)。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有董事會主席兼首席執行官洛里·賴爾克 (Lori Ryerkerk) 和首席財務官斯科特·理查森 (Scott Richardson)。

Celanese Corporation distributed its third quarter earnings release via Business Wire and posted prepared comments about the quarter on our Investor Relations website yesterday afternoon.

塞拉尼斯公司昨天下午透過商業電訊發布了其第三季度收益報告，並在投資者關係網站上發布了有關該季度的準備好的評論。

As a reminder, we will discuss non-GAAP financial measures today. You can find definitions of these measures as well as reconciliations to the comparable GAAP measures on our website.

提醒一下，我們今天將討論非公認會計準則 (Non-GAAP) 財務指標。您可以在我們的網站上找到這些指標的定義以及與可比較公認會計準則 (GAAP) 指標的對帳表。

Today's presentation will also include forward-looking statements. Please review the cautionary language regarding forward-looking statements, which can be found at the end of the press release as well as prepared comments. Form 8-K reports containing all these materials have also been submitted to the SEC.

今天的簡報還將包含前瞻性陳述。請閱讀新聞稿末尾關於前瞻性陳述的警示性措辭以及準備好的評論。包含所有這些資料的8-K表格報告也已提交給美國證券交易委員會 (SEC)。

Because we have published our prepared comments yesterday, we'll now open the line directly for your questions. Doug, please go ahead and open the line for questions.

由於我們昨天已經發布了準備好的評論，現在我們將直接開放提問熱線。道格，請開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of John Roberts with UBS.

（操作員指示）我們的第一個問題來自瑞銀的約翰羅伯茲。

I would have thought that a lot of plastics inventory would have been left in the supply chain when the auto plants and other manufacturers shut down earlier in the year. So I would have thought that Celanese would have lagged the recovery of the customers, but it seems like you've been pretty coincident. Maybe you could comment a little bit on timing issue.

我原本以為，今年稍早汽車廠和其他製造商停工時，供應鏈中會殘留大量塑膠庫存。所以我原本以為塞拉尼斯的復甦速度會落後客戶，但看來你的預測相當吻合。或許你可以就時間問題發表一下看法。

Yes. Thanks for the question, John. I think what is clear to us, as we were saying throughout 2019, we were seeing a lot of destocking in the auto chain. And so we went into 2020 with much lower inventories in our estimation than is typical in the entirety of that chain. And as we went through the first quarter, auto was still running well, certainly in the Western Hemisphere. And so we really have not seen any buildup during the time we were down, and we've seen really steady demand consistent with, or even actually a bit better, than you've seen auto builds recover. So I think what's different this time than maybe in past recessions or past downturn is just the fact that we had gone through a pretty significant period of destocking already in 2019.

是的。謝謝你的提問，約翰。我認為我們很清楚，正如我們在2019年全年所說的那樣，我們看到汽車供應鏈中出現了大量的去庫存現象。因此，我們估計2020年進入時的庫存水準遠低於整個供應鏈的正常水準。而在第一季度，汽車產業仍然運作良好，尤其是在西半球。因此，在低迷時期，我們並沒有看到任何庫存積壓，而且我們看到的需求非常穩定，與汽車製造業復甦時期保持一致，甚至略有好轉。所以我認為，這次與以往的經濟衰退或低迷時期的不同之處在於，我們在2019年已經經歷了一段相當顯著的去庫存期。

And then could you provide a little more granularity in your comment about rising raw materials? And is that causing you to activate your network any differently?

那麼，您能否更詳細地談談原物料價格上漲的問題？這是否會導致您的網路活動有所不同？

Yes. So the real impact in third quarter from rising raw material was ethylene pricing. So we really saw ethylene pricing up throughout the entirety of the third quarter, really in all regions of the world. I wouldn't say it's had a real difference in terms of our acetyl chain, in terms of our activation. We really haven't seen that pass through to our Engineered Materials. It's not been an impact there, really being a long supply chain in EM. But we did see the impact, as you noted from our comments, in the third quarter, especially in acetyls.

是的。所以原物料上漲在第三季的真正影響是乙烯價格。我們確實看到乙烯價格在整個第三季都在上漲，實際上在世界各地都是如此。我不認為這對我們的乙醯基鍊和活化作用有什麼真正的影響。我們確實沒有看到這種影響傳導到我們的工程材料業務。由於新興市場的供應鏈很長，這並沒有對工程材料業務造成影響。但正如您從我們的評論中提到的，我們確實在第三季度看到了影響，尤其是在乙醯基領域。

It really -- we also saw some increases in methanol and CO at the end of the quarter. And some of those increases, we weren't able to pass through in pricing in third quarter but would expect to be able to mitigate in fourth quarter.

確實如此——我們在本季末也看到了甲醇和二氧化碳的上漲。其中一些上漲，我們未能在第三季透過定價轉嫁，但預計在第四季能夠緩解。

Our next question comes from the line of Bob Koort with Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的鮑伯‧庫爾特 (Bob Koort)。

Lori, I think, not too long ago, you stopped talking about discrete project wins in EM. I'm just wondering if you could give us some sense of what you might expect as we look into '21 versus '20. Will it be sort of a bit parity? Could it be better? Is there a chance it could be actually lower? How do you see those new project applications developing?

Lori，我想不久前，您就不再談論新興市場中獨立專案的勝利了。我只是想知道，當我們展望2021年和2020年時，您能否為我們介紹一下您的預期。會不會差不多？會不會更好？有沒有可能實際上更低？您如何看待這些新計畫申請的發展？

Yes. So we really stopped talking a lot about project wins, just recognizing that not all projects are created equal. And just because we had a lot of wins doesn't mean we were necessarily creating more value. But it is something we still try. I would tell you, in the third quarter, we were well on target with the number of wins that we expected to have as well as with the margin expectations from those projects.

是的。所以我們真的不再多談項目訂單，而是意識到並非所有項目都生來平等。我們贏得很多訂單並不代表我們一定創造了更多價值。但我們仍在努力。我想說的是，在第三季度，我們的訂單數量以及這些項目的利潤率都達到了預期目標。

So as we go into 2021, I actually continue to expect to see the number of project wins going up. We've managed to build a lot in the pipeline, do some really good work by our commercial teams working virtually and using new formats for us, like webinars and that sort of thing. And so we're seeing the number of projects actually continue to go up as well as the value of projects continuing to build pretty significantly.

因此，隨著我們進入2021年，我實際上預計專案數量將繼續上升。我們已經成功建立了許多項目，我們的商業團隊透過線上辦公室和使用網路研討會等新形式，取得了一些非常出色的成果。因此，我們看到項目數量實際上持續成長，項目價值也持續大幅提升。

I mean maybe just a few examples of wins we've had during COVID and more recently. So as a result of one of our webinars, we recently did one on electric vehicle batteries. We had over 200 customers, a lot have attended that series of webinars across the region. And as a result of all the work being done during COVID, we've also had some really good placements, so not just EVs, which are booming, but also we've had a big contract for LCT into one of the leading electronics manufacturers, which goes into smartphones and tablets and headphones.

我的意思是，這只是我們在新冠疫情期間以及最近取得的一些成果。例如，在一次網路研討會的成果下，我們最近舉辦了一場關於電動車電池的研討會。我們有超過200位客戶，其中許多人參加了該地區的一系列網路研討會。由於新冠疫情期間所做的所有工作，我們也取得了一些非常好的成果，不僅僅是蓬勃發展的電動汽車，我們還與一家領先的電子產品製造商簽訂了一份大合同，幫助LCT生產智慧型手機、平板電腦和耳機。

So our commercial folks are doing a great job continuing to find those areas of growth, continuing to find those areas where our unique technologies can really be applied at meaningful margins. And we -- it feels very good for us going into 2021 with some of the wins we've had this year and have teed up for next year.

因此，我們的商業團隊在持續尋找成長領域、持續尋找能夠真正應用我們獨特技術並帶來可觀利潤的領域方面做得非常出色。我們今年取得了一些成果，並為明年做好了準備，因此，我們非常高興能夠邁入2021年。

And can I ask you -- you started doing your share repurchase before the proceeds came in. Was that just a function of expecting the world to heal and so it was a good time to start buying? And then do you have a pretty short list of ways Scott can spend that money on M&A next year? Or is it still somewhat of a murky environment?

我可以問一下嗎？你們在收益到帳之前就開始回購股票了。這是否只是因為預期世界會好轉，所以現在是開始買進的好時機？然後，你有沒有列出一份簡短的清單，列出史考特明年可以用這筆錢併購的方案？還是說，現在的環境還是有些不明朗？

Yes. So I think in terms of share repurchases, yes, we did start prior to the actual close because, obviously, we could see the close was in sight. So we wanted to go ahead and get in the market and start those share repurchases and spread them out over a longer period of time. As a result of that, clearly, we're in really good financial shape. We've been quite active looking at M&A.

是的。所以我認為就股票回購而言，我們確實在實際交易結束前就開始了，因為顯然，我們預見了交易結束在即。所以我們想提前進入市場，開始股票回購，並將它們分散到更長的時間內。因此，我們的財務狀況顯然非常好。我們一直在積極地考慮併購。

On the positive side, we've had most of our management team together now since June. So we've been able to use that to really reset our sights on M&A, do a broader look at M&A targets. I would say we have not a short list but a pretty well defined list of those things that we're interested in, both from a bolt-on standpoint as well from a larger, more transformational M&A standpoint.

積極的一面是，自六月以來，我們的大部分管理團隊已經齊聚一堂。因此，我們得以藉此重新審視併購的前景，更廣泛地審視併購目標。我想說，我們感興趣的併購對象並非簡短的清單，而是一份相當清晰的清單，既涵蓋了附加性併購，也涵蓋了更宏大、更具變革性的併購。

We do see the market starting to get better as people, stock prices are improving. The discussions can get more serious. People are, I guess, feeling better about getting value for their assets. So the discussions are ongoing, but as we all know, this takes some time. So I think, yes, it's probably well into 2021 before we'd be able to action anything.

我們確實看到市場開始好轉，因為人們和股票價格都在上漲。討論可能會變得更加嚴肅。我想，人們對資產增值的感覺越來越好。所以討論仍在進行中，但眾所周知，這需要一些時間。所以我認為，是的，可能要等到2021年我們才能採取任何行動。

Our next question comes from the line of Duffy Fischer with Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的達菲‧菲舍爾 (Duffy Fischer)。

First question is just kind of around the level of business today and when we think about that going into 2021. So if the world doesn't get better from here, your Q1 EBITDA was down about 15% year-over-year; this quarter was down about 17%. Does the world feel about the same as it did in Q1 and that would be flat at this level of economic activity in Q1 next year to start out? Or how would you gauge that economic level today and what we should use that to model into 2021 for you guys?

第一個問題是關於目前的業務水平，以及我們如何展望2021年。如果世界情況沒有好轉，你們第一季的EBITDA年減了約15%，本季下降了約17%。現在全球經濟的狀況是否與第一季大致相同，在明年第一季的經濟活動水準下，EBITDA會持平嗎？或者，您如何衡量目前的經濟水平，以及我們應該如何以此為模型預測2021年的情況？

Yes. So let me just start. If we look at fourth quarter, we actually see our volumes and pricing being up in fourth quarter on kind of the base materials. But we still do expect that December seasonality. So in acetyls, maybe seasonality is happening today. If we look at snow happening in some of the western and northern states, in acetyls, we typically see some drop-off in demand for emulsions and VAM and powders as we see a slowdown in the construction industry due to weather.

是的。我先說說。如果我們看一下第四季度，我們實際上可以看到基礎材料的銷量和價格在第四季度有所上漲。但我們仍預期12月會出現季節性因素。所以對乙醯基產品來說，也許現在就是季節性因素。如果我們觀察一下西部和北部一些州的降雪情況，我們通常會看到乙醯基產品對乳液、VAM和粉末的需求有所下降，因為我們看到建築業受天氣影響而放緩。

And in Engineered Materials, we typically see not so much of a volume drop but more of a margin mix effect as we see Western Hemisphere companies take time off over the holidays. That volume is usually replaced by a pickup in China and Asia but usually a slightly lower margin. So we still expect some seasonality in Q4 but on a growing base, if you will, of increased volume and pricing.

在工程材料領域，我們通常不會看到銷量大幅下降，而會更受到利潤組合的影響，因為西半球的公司會在假日期間休假。這部分銷售通常會被中國和亞洲的回升所取代，但利潤率通常會略微下降。因此，我們預期第四季仍會受到一些季節性因素的影響，但銷售量和價格的成長基數會持續擴大。

As we look to 2021, look, we have a lot of uncertainty right now with COVID. Our expectation is that 2021, we will continue to see growth and recovery back to 2019 level, sometime in 2021. So continued recovery out of 2020. The reason we provided the guidance we did is we don't know exactly what that looks like. And given all the uncertainties around COVID in the world today, it's kind of hard to call that. So that's why we called out our controllable actions, the things that we know will add $1.25 EPS over today's earnings. So if you took your expected earnings for 2020 at $1.25, I'd say that's pretty much the floor of what we'd expect next year.

展望2021年，由於新冠疫情，我們目前面臨許多不確定性。我們預計，2021年，我們將繼續看到成長和復甦，回到2019年的水平，也就是在2021年的某個時候。也就是說，復甦將在2020年後持續。我們之所以提供上述指引，是因為我們並不清楚具體情況。考慮到目前全球圍繞新冠疫情的種種不確定性，很難預測未來會如何。因此，我們提出了可控措施，我們確定的措施將使每股收益在當前基礎上增加1.25美元。所以，如果將2020年的預期收益定為1.25美元，我認為這幾乎就是我們對明年預期收益的底線。

Maybe to put it in perspective, if you assume Q3 demand levels would persist for all of 2021, that adds kind of another $1 on top of that for volume growth and price growth. So we are expecting a more positive 2021. But again, just uncertainties around COVID right now what that might happen as we see it going on in Europe, in the U.S., we just haven't really put out a definitive outlook for 2021.

客觀來看，如果假設第三季的需求水準將持續到2021年全年，那麼銷售量和價格的成長將額外增加1美元。因此，我們預期2021年的情況會更加樂觀。但同樣，由於目前新冠疫情的不確定性，以及我們在歐洲和美國看到的情況，我們還沒有對2021年做出明確的展望。

No. That's very helpful on that dollar comment. And then could you also line out what losing Polyplastic does as we anniversary that over the next 3 quarters? And is there anything else discrete like Polyplastic that we should think about taking out of 2021 when we go forward?

不。關於美元的評論非常有幫助。然後，您能否解釋一下，隨著寶理塑膠的虧損在未來三個季度會帶來什麼影響？還有什麼像寶理塑膠這樣獨立的公司，我們應該考慮在2021年將其剔除？

Yes. I think the discrete things, Polyplastics, call it, roughly $10 million a quarter, comes out starting now in the fourth quarter. So that needs to be taken into place. And then I think the really discrete things are what we called out in the earnings. So kind of $0.25 for productivity, net productivity into next year; $0.50 for lower turnaround expense into next year, that is for certain; and then another $0.50 for share repurchases, half of that being for the repurchases we did in 2020, offset by Polyplastics, and the other half being for share repurchases we plan to do in 2021.

是的。我認為寶理塑膠所說的那些單項支出，大約每季1000萬美元，從現在開始第四季就會到帳。所以這需要落實到位。然後，我認為真正單項支出是我們在收益報告中提到的。例如，0.25美元用於生產力，也就是明年的淨生產力；0.50美元用於降低明年的周轉費用，這是肯定的；然後還有0.50美元用於股票回購，其中一半用於我們在2020年進行的回購，由寶理塑料抵消；另一半用於我們計劃在2021年進行的股票回購。

Our next question comes from the line of Jeff Zekauskas with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Jeff Zekauskas。

I think year-to-date, other activities in terms of EBITDA is maybe a benefit of about $46 million. And at least on an operating EBITDA basis, I think it was about $30 million in the quarter. Can you talk about what's behind those trends, whether they will continue and whether your pension revaluation in the fourth quarter will be larger than it was last year?

我認為年初至今，其他業務的EBITDA（息稅折舊攤提前利潤）可能帶來約4,600萬美元的收益。至少以營運EBITDA計算，我認為本季約為3000萬美元。您能否談談這些趨勢背後的原因？這些趨勢是否會持續？以及第四季退休金重估的金額是否會高於去年？

Yes, Jeff, the biggest chunk of the year-over-year other activities is that pension income component, which is in the neighborhood of between $25 million and $30 million of benefit year-over-year. So that's the largest benefit. You have seen a little bit of movement up and down in other from quarter-to-quarter this year, particularly kind of hitting the low point here in the third quarter, largely driven by timing of some compensation and benefits payments. We'll see a little bit of an uptick, think about Q4 being slightly higher than Q2 was, as we finish out the year. And part of it is just timing of when some of the stuff has come through.

是的，傑夫，其他業務中同比增幅最大的部分是退休金收入部分，這部分收益同比增幅在2500萬到3000萬美元之間。所以這是最大的收益。今年其他業務季度間略有波動，尤其是在第三季觸底，主要是受部分薪資和福利支付時間的影響。隨著年底的臨近，我們會看到略有回升，例如第四季的收益會略高於第二季。部分原因在於部分款項到帳的時間。

So in the end, as we look forward into next year, we expect a slight uptick in underlying expenses, and that will more than likely be offset by the Q4 pension adjustment. I mean a lot is going to depend upon what happens with markets. We expect interest rates right now to hold relatively low. And if things stay where they are, then we'll have a slight benefit in pension income next year, which, as I said, will probably be offset by some income -- or some expense increases.

所以最終，展望明年，我們預計基本支出會略有上升，但這很可能會被第四季度的退休金調整所抵消。我的意思是，這很大程度取決於市場走勢。我們預計目前的利率將保持在相對較低的水平。如果情況維持現狀，那麼明年我們的退休金收入將略有增加，正如我所說，這可能會被部分收入或支出增加所抵消。

Okay. And then in terms of your share repurchase, it sounds like you're going to execute it regardless of the Celanese price. Is that true? That is, it doesn't matter whether it's at 100 or 120, you're going to spend the $500 million you've allocated this year and I guess, a similar amount for next year. Is that fair?

好的。那麼，就你們的股票回購計畫而言，聽起來無論塞拉尼斯的股價如何，你們都會執行。是這樣嗎？也就是說，無論塞拉尼斯的股價是1億還是1.2億，你們都會花今年撥出的5億美元，我想明年也會花掉差不多的金額。這樣公平嗎？

Well, yes, I think it's fair. I think the $500 million this year that we have -- or what we have remaining this year is really to remain accretive on our Polyplastics sale. So that will continue. And I would say, for next year, the $400 million to $500 million we've allocated for next year is really the balance of cash flow following CapEx, following dividend payments. And Scott may want to comment further, but we generally like to remain in the market on a fairly steady basis regardless of the price, and we don't really see that changing as we go into next year.

是的，我覺得很公平。我認為我們今年擁有的5億美元——或者說我們今年剩下的5億美元，實際上是為了透過出售寶理塑膠公司來保持增值。所以這種情況會持續下去。至於明年，我想說的是，我們為明年分配的4億到5億美元，實際上是扣除資本支出和股息後的現金流餘額。斯科特可能想進一步評論，但無論價格如何，我們通常都希望在市場上保持相對穩定，我們認為這種情況在進入明年後不會有太大變化。

Yes, Jeff, consistency has been exactly how we've operated when it comes to repurchases over the year. We have been opportunistic from time to time, but we like to have kind of a set level that we remain in the market. And that's what we plan to do here in Q4 as well as into next year based on -- with those levels that we outlined.

是的，傑夫，一年來，我們在回購方面一直保持一致性。我們有時會抓住機會，但我們希望在市場中保持一個固定的水平。這就是我們計劃在第四季度以及明年基於我們設定的水平所做的。

Our next question comes from the line of Vincent Andrews with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Vincent Andrews。

On the elective surgery comments in Engineered Materials, I mean, it sounds like this is a deferral, not a destruction of demand, and it's just a question of when folks are going to get back and do those procedures. But I just wanted to kind of understand the cadence of the destocking. I might have guessed it would happen more in 2Q versus 3Q, and it obviously caused a big mix disruption. And so maybe you can just bridge that with is this just something that once there's a vaccine, those people are going to get back and have their hips or their knees or what have you done? And how far in advance do your customers then need to rebuild the inventory that they're taking out now?

關於《工程材料》雜誌中關於擇期手術的評論，我的意思是，這聽起來像是在推遲，而不是需求的破壞，問題只是人們何時會回來做這些手術。但我只是想了解一下去庫存的節奏。我可能會猜測這種情況會更多地發生在第二季度而不是第三季度，這顯然造成了產品組合的嚴重混亂。所以，或許您可以換個角度思考一下，一旦有了疫苗，這些人是不是就可以回來做髖關節或膝蓋手術了？或者您做了什麼？您的客戶需要提前多久補充他們現在正在清倉的庫存？

Yes. Great question, Vincent. What we really saw in 2Q were no elective procedures happening. And I think if you read Johnson & Johnson or anybody's release, that would back that up. I mean just no elective surgery was happening in 2Q. So basically, in second quarter, everybody was sitting there with the inventories they had at the sudden shutdown in March of all elective surgeries across the U.S., which is the primary market this goes into.

是的。文森特，這個問題問得好。我們在第二季度真正看到的是沒有進行任何擇期手術。我想如果你讀過強生或其他公司的新聞稿，就會明白這一點。我的意思是，第二季根本沒有進行任何擇期手術。所以基本上，在第二季度，每個人都在囤積庫存，因為3月全美所有擇期手術都突然停止了，而美國是該公司的主要市場。

And so we have seen in third quarter that elective surgeries are starting to rehappen. But what we're also hearing from our customers is people are using that inventory they've had sitting on the shelf, waiting to see how fast this all comes back before starting to reorder. Look, it's not a long we carry inventory, so it's not a long supply chain. They know we have it available. We are starting to see some slight uptick again in fourth quarter. So we fully expect this volume to come back across '21 and '22. I think it's not just the hospital being open. But again, these are generally older patients getting this. So it's also people being comfortable either because there's a vaccine or because they feel the virus is under control, that people feel comfortable to go back to the hospital again to have these procedures.

因此，我們在第三季看到擇期手術開始恢復。但我們也從客戶那裡聽到，人們正在使用他們擱置的庫存，等著看情況恢復的速度，然後再開始補貨。你看，我們的庫存時間不長，所以供應鏈也不長。他們知道我們有貨。我們在第四季開始再次看到一些小幅回升。因此，我們完全預期這個數量將在2021年和2022年恢復。我認為這不僅僅是醫院開放的原因。但同樣，這些通常是老年患者接受這種手術。所以，人們感到安心，可能是因為有了疫苗，也可能是因為他們覺得病毒已經控制了，所以他們願意再回到醫院接受這些手術。

And then if I could just follow up on the comments about manufacturing facilities fully staffed and operating to meet improved demand. Maybe more specifically in acetyl, what rates are you operating at in each region? As I recall, there was some an asset down in Europe and maybe some lower utilizations in Asia. So just maybe a check-in on where those are would be helpful.

然後，我想問一下關於生產設施人員配備齊全、運作良好以滿足不斷增長的需求的問題。更具體地說，在乙醯基方面，你們在每個地區的營運率是多少？我記得歐洲的一些資產出現了下滑，亞洲的利用率也較低。所以，也許了解這些資產的狀況會有所幫助。

Yes. So I would say for acetyls, I mean, all of our facilities are back up and running. We do have a short turnaround in Clear Lake. Actually, that we're in at the moment. We had a short downtime in Singapore. So a number of small maintenance downtimes that were planned into the numbers. But really, everything is up and running. All of our staff is back at full force.

是的。所以，我想說，就乙醯基產品而言，我們所有的設施都已恢復正常運作。我們在清湖工廠確實有一個短暫的停工期。實際上，我們現在就在那裡。我們在新加坡工廠也經歷了短暫的停工。所以，一些小型維護停工期是計畫內的。但實際上，一切都已恢復正常運作。我們所有的員工都已全面復工。

I would say, certainly, for derivatives, things are pretty much running at 100% to meet the demand. And in acid, we're running to meet demand as well. So we are fully staffed, fully ready to go and actually have seen, for the last several months, the demand there pretty much runs full.

我想說，當然，對於衍生性商品而言，我們幾乎開足馬力滿足需求。對於酸類產品，我們也全力以赴滿足需求。因此，我們人員配備齊全，準備就緒，而且實際上，在過去幾個月裡，我們確實看到那裡的需求幾乎處於飽和狀態。

As we pointed out, I mean, for acetyls, we are just slightly under 2019 volumes already at this point in time.

正如我們所指出的，我的意思是，對於乙醯基而言，我們目前的產量略低於 2019 年的產量。

Our next question comes from the line of Mike Sison with Wells Fargo.

我們的下一個問題來自富國銀行的麥克·西森。

Nice quarter. Lori, when you think about that dollar upside for 2021, does that assume that the Acetyl Chain, sort of the trends you're seeing now, pricing at $300 and sort of the optionality focus downstream to emulsion and powders would stay in that range for that dollar?

不錯的季度。 Lori，當你考慮2021年的美元上漲空間時，是否假設乙醯基鏈（也就是你現在看到的趨勢）的價格在300美元左右，而下游乳劑和粉末產品的選擇性關注度會保持在這個範圍內？

Yes. So I was really just sorting that out as an example, Mark -- Mike, sorry, as the range that we would expect to see. So third quarter kind of being our best quarter this year. If we saw that continued next year, that would get you the dollar. There are many multiples of the ways to get there.

是的。馬克，抱歉，麥克，我只是舉個例子，算一下我們預期的區間。第三季可以說是我們今年表現最好的一個季度。如果明年我們能繼續保持這種勢頭，就能賺到錢。有很多方法可以達到這個目標。

I would say, though, as we look to 2021, I mean, we are seeing an uptick in asset prices in China. Today, up closer to kind of the mid-$300 mark, up from the $300 per ton we were at in third quarter. So clearly, that's an upside in acetyls. As I said, we're already getting close to 2019 volumes in acetyls. The story there is really when do we see utilization get tight enough, we start to see some price recovery, which we think we're starting to see now. Again, some seasonality expected in derivatives in December, but we would expect that that's come back in January.

不過，我想說，展望2021年，我們看到中國資產價格正在上漲。如今，價格已接近300美元左右，高於第三季的每噸300美元。顯然，乙醯基市場存在上漲空間。正如我所說，乙醯基的產量已經接近2019年的水平。關鍵在於，什麼時候才能看到利用率夠緊張，價格才會開始回升，而我們認為現在就開始了。同樣，預計12月衍生性商品市場會出現一些季節性波動，但我們預期這種波動會在1月恢復。

Yes, Mike, I think just to add. I think what's really important as we think about that is really contribution margin. And so we may see pricing move up as raw materials move up. So we've seen a lot of our fundamental raws increase here over the last 2 or 3 months. And if that were to hold, these prices hold, so we really look at contribution margin. So you kind of -- the current conditions were to continue, as Lori mentioned, in the third quarter and what we're seeing here in the fourth quarter, that dollar is the level you'd see.

是的，麥克，我想補充一下。我認為，在我們考慮這個問題時，真正重要的是貢獻利潤率。因此，隨著原物料價格上漲，我們可能會看到價格上漲。過去兩三個月，我們看到許多基本原料的價格上漲。如果這種情況持續下去，這些價格也會維持不變，所以我們真正關注的是貢獻利潤率。所以，就像洛里提到的，如果目前的狀況持續到第三季度，以及我們在第四季看到的情況，美元匯率就會維持在目前的水準。

Understood. And then I think in your prepared remarks, you talked about $400 million or so to be used for organic growth. Can you maybe talk about some of the areas that you're going to invest in to do -- to drive some growth for the next couple of years?

明白了。然後我記得您在準備好的發言中提到了大約4億美元將用於有機增長。您能否談談您計劃投資哪些領域來推動未來幾年的成長？

Yes. So we're predicting $400 million to $415 million of CapEx for next year. We're still finalizing that number, but I feel comfortable we should be well north of $400 million. It is to support organic growth as well as our run and maintain level of maintenance, which we typically have in there at around $150 million to $175 million.

是的。我們預計明年的資本支出將在4億到4.15億美元之間。我們仍在最終確定這個數字，但我相信應該會遠遠超過4億美元。這筆資金將用於支持有機成長以及營運和維護，我們的營運和維護成本通常在1.5億到1.75億美元左右。

So included in that number is the restart of the acetic acid expansion at Clear Lake. That happens at the end of 2021. It seems like the Bishop GUR. We've previously announced some expansion in our VAE and VAM facilities around the globe. So that number is built in there as well. So a lot of things that you've already heard about but just really seeing them start hitting heavier capital next year.

因此，這個數字包括重啟Clear Lake醋酸擴建計畫。該計畫將於2021年底啟動。這似乎是Bishop GUR的計劃。我們之前已經宣布了在全球範圍內對VAE和VAM設施進行擴建。所以這個數字也已經包含在內了。所以，很多你已經聽說過的項目，但實際上它們明年將開始對資本產生更大的影響。

Yes. And our teams are pushing hard on cost reduction capital as well, Mike. And so we're working to accelerate projects, as we talked about earlier this year. And so embedded in that number is capital needed for some of the productivity gains that we called out in the prepared remarks.

是的。麥克，我們的團隊也在努力降低成本，所以正如我們今年早些時候談到的，我們正在努力加快專案進度。這個數字中包含了我們在準備好的發言中提到的一些生產力提升所需的資本。

Our next question comes from the line from Hassan Ahmed with Alembic Global.

我們的下一個問題來自 Alembic Global 的 Hassan Ahmed。

Sorry to bore you, guys, but another question about the 2021 guide. I know you guys had said that, obviously, as the EPS stands right now, Q3 was the strongest quarter. But as I take a look at Q4 guidance, the midpoint, call it, slightly north of $1.50. And then I sort of think about the one-offs, seasonality as well some of the turnarounds, you come up with a number recurring, which is north of $2, right?

抱歉打擾了各位，還有一個關於2021年業績指引的問題。我知道你們說過，就目前的每股盈餘來看，第三季顯然是業績最強勁的一個季度。但我看了第四季的業績指引，中間值略高於1.50美元。然後我又考慮了一次性事件、季節性因素以及一些扭轉局面的因素，你們得出的經常性數字是2美元以上，對嗎？

So I'm just trying to understand or get a better sense of run rate sort of EPS as one thinks about 2021. So I mean, it seems barring those one-offs, one is already north of $2 and then you have $0.25 worth of productivity, another $0.50 worth of buybacks. So it seems, without much improvement from Q4 levels, one could hit maybe $9 in 2021. Is -- am I thinking about this the right way?

所以我只是想更能理解或理解2021年每股盈餘（EPS）的運作率。我的意思是，除去那些一次性支出，每股盈餘似乎已經超過2美元了，而且還有0.25美元的生產成本和0.50美元的回購成本。所以，如果與第四季相比沒有太大改善，2021年的每股盈餘可能會達到9美元。我這樣想對嗎？

Yes, I think that's right. If you look at where we are, we guided to in the year somewhere $7 or slightly above $7. If you add on the $1.25, that is based on controllable actions that we outlined in the comments, that gets you to $8.25 plus maybe a little bit more. And then if you consider some level of recovery against as if it were Q3 for the year, you can quickly then get yourself to $9 or a bit north of $9 next year.

是的，我認為是對的。看看我們現在的水平，我們預計今年的油價在7美元左右或略高於7美元。如果加上1.25美元（這是基於我們在評論中概述的可控措施），油價就會達到8.25美元，甚至可能更高一點。然後，如果考慮到油價相對於今年第三季的油價出現一定程度的復甦，那麼明年油價很快就會達到9美元或略高於9美元。

Again, our big caveat on that is just seeing the resurgence of COVID and not knowing what that's going to do to market in Q4 and into next year. That's why we haven't called out a specific level of recovery.

再次強調，我們最大的擔憂是，目前疫情的復甦只是暫時的，我們並不清楚這將對第四季乃至明年的市場產生何種影響。因此，我們目前尚未給出具體的復甦水準。

Of course, of course. Makes complete sense. And as a follow-up, you pointed out a $5 million sequential hit from Ibn Sina. Now if I recall correctly, there tends to be a quarter's lag between what oil prices do and the impact of that being felt in your results in Ibn Sina. So is it fair to assume that Ibn Sina could be somewhat of a tailwind come Q4?

當然，當然。完全有道理。另外，您剛才提到了伊本·西納（Ibn Sina）的環比損失，達500萬美元。如果我沒記錯的話，油價波動和伊本·西納業績受其影響之間通常會有一個季度的滯後。那麼，是否可以合理地假設伊本·西納可能會在第四季度帶來一些利多？

Yes. So Ibn Sina is a quarter lag. So if you look at methanol prices, they were very low levels in Q2. That's the additional $5 million sequential hit we saw this quarter from Ibn Sina. Now with methanol prices recovering, we would expect to recover that $5 million from Ibn Sina in fourth quarter.

是的。所以伊本西納工廠的運作落後了一個季度。所以，如果你看一下甲醇價格，你會發現第二季的甲醇價格非常低。這就是伊本西納工廠本季帶來的500萬美元的環比損失。現在，隨著甲醇價格的回升，我們預計第四季度伊本西納工廠的這500萬美元收入將得以收回。

But you won't see it flow through, Hassan, on the equity earnings line because it will be offset by the roughly $10 million or so that comes out from Polyplastics. So we just look at those 2 together, down $5 million, Q3 to Q4.

但哈桑，你不會看到這筆錢流入股權收益線，因為它會被寶理塑膠公司約1000萬美元的支出抵消。所以我們把這兩筆錢放在一起看，第三季比第四季下降了500萬美元。

Our next question comes from the line of P.J. Juvekar with Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 P.J. Juvekar。

A question about your BlueRidge Cellulosic plastic. I think that's biodegradable plastic for food takeout, et cetera. How big is that market? And how much polyethylene or PET can you replace with cellulosics? And how do you price it? Do you charge a premium over, let's say, PE?

關於你們的BlueRidge纖維素塑料，我想問一下。我覺得它是用於外帶等用途的可生物降解塑膠。這個市場有多大？纖維素塑膠能取代多少聚乙烯或PET？你們如何定價？價格會比PE（如PE）更高嗎？

Yes. So let me describe it this way. The accessible market for this material could be huge. The reason we went ahead and made the marketing announcement is we're at that point now we need to get material out to customers. We need to give them the chance to try it out. It is a more costly product than PE. That's why this hasn't really been a factor in the market today. But we also know that there are customers out there who are looking for a sustainable biodegradable solution who are less sensitive to the price point. But that's what we really -- that's why we made the announcement. We really are in the process of getting material out to customers. We've had a few small purchase agreements made for people who are going through trials. But we need more time, frankly, to find out what the price point is on this and what the demand is really for replacement of more traditional PE products.

是的。讓我這樣描述一下。這種材料的市場潛力巨大。我們之所以提前發佈市場公告，是因為我們現在需要把材料送到客戶手中。我們需要讓他們有機會試用。它比聚乙烯 (PE) 更貴，所以目前在市場上還沒有形成真正的市場。但我們也知道，有些客戶正在尋找可持續的生物降解解決方案，他們對價格不太敏感。但這正是我們發佈公告的原因。我們確實正在把材料送到客戶手中。我們已經與一些正在試用的客戶達成了一些小額購買協議。但坦白說，我們需要更多時間來了解這種材料的價格點，以及市場對替代更傳統聚乙烯產品的需求。

Okay. And then secondly, as you bring more of your acetyls production in the U.S., you are more exposed to natural gas prices here. And maybe, Scott, you can comment about, are you concerned about rising natural gas prices because of lower associated gas production? And are you hedging any part of your natural gas purchases?

好的。其次，隨著你們在美國生產更多乙醯基產品，你們受美國天然氣價格的影響會更大。史考特，你能不能問一下，你們是否擔心伴生氣產量下降會導致天然氣價格上漲？你們是否對部分天然氣採購進行了對沖？

Yes. So look, we don't expect rising natural gas prices to have a really material impact on our business. It does have the potential to slightly compress margins. But this is the value of our global network. The fact that we can choose where to make the acetic acid, where to sell it, we can flex our production levels, we can flex further down into derivatives, which are less raw material sensitive. So we really are not expecting any material impact from this in the fourth quarter.

是的。所以，我們預期天然氣價格上漲不會對我們的業務造成真正實質的影響。它確實有可能略微壓縮利潤率。但這正是我們全球網路的價值。我們可以選擇在哪裡生產醋酸，在哪裡銷售，我們可以靈活調整生產水平，我們可以進一步靈活地生產對原材料敏感度較低的衍生品。因此，我們預計第四季度不會受到任何實質影響。

Yes, P.J., we do take some short-term positions from time to time, but nothing that I would say is long term in nature, if you will.

是的，P.J.，我們確實會不時採取一些短期立場，但如果你願意的話，我認為這些立場都不是長期的。

Our next question comes from the line of Matthew DeYoe with Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

我們的下一個問題來自美銀美林的 Matthew DeYoe。

So perhaps this isn't the case in EVs, but has COVID slowed the pace of innovation at CE or at the customers at all? I would think just given restrictions around staffing and R&D labs, you may just have a slowdown in the pace and implementation of new business.

所以電動車領域可能並非如此，但新冠疫情是否真的減緩了消費性電子領域或消費者領域的創新步伐？我認為，考慮到人員配備和研發實驗室的限制，新業務的節奏和實施速度可能會放緩。

So great question, Matt. I would say, look, when we first went into COVID, I mean, certainly, it had an impact as, one, I think people thought this was not a long-term thing, and so things were just put on hold for a short period of time. I would say all of our customers and ourselves included have now adjusted to the new world of COVID. And if anything, we see the pace of innovation, pick up. Again, most of our folks are back in office and facility, so we've been able to do a lot of things for our customers. We also see our customers coming back, and we also see them getting more comfortable with doing more remotely.

馬特，這個問題問得真好。我想說，我們剛開始接觸新冠疫情的時候，它確實帶來了一些影響，首先，我認為人們認為這不是一個長期問題，所以有些事情只是暫時擱置了一段時間。我想說，我們所有的客戶，包括我們自己，現在都已經適應了新冠疫情的新局面。而且，我們看到創新的步伐加快了。我們大多數員工都已經回到辦公室和工廠，所以我們能夠為客戶做很多事情。我們也看到客戶回來了，他們也越來越習慣遠距辦公。

So again, going back to my previous answer on wins, we are still seeing projects win. We are seeing high-value project wins, and we feel very excited about the pipeline of wins in Engineered Materials for next year and the innovation that's gone into that. It really was helpful for us that at the end of '19, we really focused our strategy on what we considered a few emerging trends around 5G and electric vehicles and medical and pharma and sustainable solution. And that focus on that innovation and keeping that pipeline strong through COVID is really helping us now as we move into recovery and we see those areas continuing to emerge as winning sectors.

所以，回到我之前關於專案成功的回答，我們仍然看到專案不斷出現。我們看到高價值的項目正在贏得勝利，我們對明年工程材料領域的項目以及其中蘊含的創新感到非常興奮。在2019年末，我們將策略重點真正集中在我們認為的5G、電動車、醫療製藥和永續解決方案等幾個新興趨勢上，這對我們來說非常有幫助。專注於創新並在新冠疫情期間保持專案強勁成長，這對我們現在進入復甦階段確實很有幫助，我們看到這些領域正在繼續成為贏家。

Okay. And maybe on the same light, how long is it going to take you to fill out the new GUR capacity? And what EBITDA contribution of an expansion, what would that look like? Because most of this is going to EV batteries, too. Maybe if you can provide a little bit more color there.

好的。從同樣的角度來看，您需要多長時間才能滿足新的GUR產能？擴張對EBITDA的貢獻是多少？因為其中大部分也用於電動車電池。能否請您提供更多細節？

Yes. So the expansion that we announced in Bishop, the 15 kt expansion, should be online early 2022. It is really supplying our global network for electric vehicles. And at the current rate of growth in electric vehicles, about 25% a year, quite frankly, that will be sold out the day it starts.

是的。我們在畢曉普宣布的1.5萬噸產能擴建工程應該會在2022年初投入使用。這筆資金將真正用於我們全球電動車網路的運作。按照目前電動車的年增長率（約25%），坦白說，這些產能在計畫啟動的第一天就會被搶購一空。

Our next question comes from the line of David Begleiter with Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 David Begleiter。

Lori, just on '21, you highlighted a number of tailwinds for next year. Are there any headwinds we should be thinking about for next year from a bridge standpoint?

洛里，就在21世紀初，您強調了明年的一些利多因素。從橋樑的角度來看，明年有哪些不利因素值得我們考慮？

No, not really, David. I mean for us, the headwind is -- does something happen to the economy because of a reemergence of COVID. And that's why we haven't called out any specific projections for us in terms of volume and price growth. But no, we intentionally pulled a lot forward into 2020 this year in terms of facility changes, inventory draws, all of those things to take advantage of the low-demand environment. So we really don't see any major headwinds going into next year.

不，大衛，其實不然。我的意思是，對我們來說，逆風在於──新冠疫情的再次爆發是否會對經濟造成影響。這就是為什麼我們沒有對銷量和價格成長做出任何具體的預測。但是，我們今年有意將許多事情提前到2020年，包括設施變更、庫存提取等等，以利用低需求的環境。所以我們確實不認為明年會面臨任何重大逆風。

And just on EV, Lori, where are your sales today for EV-related content? And where can they be, do you think, in 3 to 5 years?

洛里，就電動車而言，您目前電動車相關內容的銷售量如何？您認為3到5年後銷售會如何？

David, I don't think I have an exact number. I mean I would say, GUR has other applications besides EV. EV is certainly the fastest growing of those applications. And we expect electric vehicles, the market for electric vehicles, of which we are a pretty significant player in the lithium-ion battery separators, to grow at about 25% per year for the next 5 years.

David，我沒有確切的數字。我的意思是，GUR 除了電動車之外還有其他應用。電動車無疑是這些應用中成長最快的。我們預計，電動車市場（我們在鋰離子電池隔膜領域佔有相當重要的地位）未來 5 年的年增長率將達到 25% 左右。

Yes, it's a tough question, David, because there's a lot of applications where we have content on a vehicle that it doesn't matter if it's an ICE vehicle or if it's an EV vehicle. So sometimes, it's hard for us to partial that out. If we look at EV-specific applications, it's very low single digits of the percentage of EM's revenue today.

是的，大衛，這是一個很難回答的問題，因為我們有許多應用的內容與車輛相關，無論它是內燃機汽車還是電動車。所以有時候，我們很難把這些內容分開。如果我們看一下電動車專用的應用，它在EM目前的收入中所佔比例非常低。

Our next question comes from the line of Ghansham Panjabi with Robert W. Baird.

我們的下一個問題來自 Robert W. Baird 的 Ghansham Panjabi。

Lori, would you be able to give us a sense as to what the volume exit run rates for the Engineered Materials segment was as you cycled into the fourth quarter? What are you sort of baking in for the fourth quarter specifically? And also, I realize this is real time, but what are you hearing from customers given the incremental lockdowns in Europe at this point?

Lori，您能否告訴我們，進入第四季後，工程材料部門的產量退出率是多少？您為第四季制定了哪些具體計畫？另外，我知道這是即時數據，但鑑於目前歐洲逐步實施封鎖措施，您從客戶那裡得到了什麼回饋？

Overall, for -- we expect probably 10% growth. That's though for the company. I'm not sure I really have it specified between EM and AC. But we expect about 10% growth before the impacts of seasonality for volume and price going from third quarter to fourth quarter.

整體而言，我們預期成長大概在10%。不過，這只是針對公司而言的。我不確定我是否真的明確指出了新興市場和消費性電子市場之間的差異。但我們預計，在第三季到第四季期間，銷售量和價格受到季節性影響之前，成長率約為10%。

And I would say what we're hearing from our customers, I mean, just if you look at our order book, that's probably the easiest way to talk about this. If you look at EM, October is showing some modest improvement over Q3, the average of Q3. November is pretty consistent with that. December is -- we don't have as much view on that yet, but it's still showing that same kind of level of modest volume growth. But again, we get some margin impact in December. And so far, I would say we have not really seen any indications of demand destruction associated with this second wave of COVID, either in Europe or in the U.S.

我想說的是，就我們從客戶那裡聽到的情況來看，如果你看一下我們的訂單簿，這可能是談論這個問題最簡單的方式。如果你看一下新興市場，你會發現10月份的銷售量比第三季略有改善，與第三季的平均水平相比有所改善。 11月份的銷量與此基本一致。 12月份——我們目前對此還沒有太多的看法，但它仍然顯示出同樣水平的溫和銷量成長。但是，12月份的利潤率再次受到了一些影響。到目前為止，我想說，無論是在歐洲還是在美國，我們還沒有真正看到與第二波新冠疫情相關的任何需求破壞的跡象。

Okay. Great. And then in terms of productivity, I mean, you're calling out, call it, $0.25 in EPS '21 versus '20, net of the $35 million at the midpoint of temporary cost savings reversal. This year, I think your productivity number is 200 plus. Is the $21 million drop on a year-over-year basis a function of just lower CapEx this year, and then as you ramp that up, the trend line improves materially in 2022? Or is there something else we're not considering?

好的。太好了。然後說到生產力，我的意思是，您說2021年的每股收益比2020年少了0.25美元，扣除了臨時成本節約逆轉中期產生的3500萬美元。我認為今年您的生產力數字應該在200以上。年比下降2,100萬美元是否僅僅是因為今年資本支出減少，然後隨著資本支出的增加，2022年的趨勢線會大幅改善？還是還有其他我們沒有考慮到的因素？

Well, I think you have to look -- I mean, look, 2020 was an exceptional year. We had exceptional headwinds. So we went into this year planning to get about $150 million of gross productivity. We bumped that up to challenge the organization to $200 million, which we will get that this year. We also had another $30 million to $40 million of onetime costs.

嗯，我想你得看看——我的意思是，2020年是非同尋常的一年。我們遇到了非同尋常的逆風。所以我們今年計劃實現約1.5億美元的毛生產率。我們把這個數字提高了，挑戰公司要達到2億美元，今年就能達成這個目標。此外，我們還有3000萬到4000萬美元的一次性成本。

So if you look at next year in comparison, we're currently targeting for at least $100 million of productivity on a gross basis. That's actually pretty typical to the level we've achieved over the last few years. If you just -- if you don't look at 2020. So we put that target out there of $100 million. I'm quite sure we'll achieve that. It's a little -- it looks a little lower when you look on the EPS because you have to offset that with the onetime cost savings we had this year, things like not running our facilities that's full and not having travel and those sorts of expenses. So we fully expect those costs will come back in 2021 as we see ourselves running closer to full. And so that discounts that EPS number a little bit. But actually, the $100 million growth we have is pretty consistent with what we achieved most years. And of course, we'll push for more, but $100 million is what we've baked in right now.

所以，如果比較一下明年，我們目前的目標是至少要達成1億美元的總生產力。這實際上與我們過去幾年取得的水平相當接近。如果不考慮2020年，我們設定的目標就是1億美元。我非常肯定我們能實現這個目標。但從每股盈餘來看，這個數字略低，因為你必須用今年一次性節省的成本來抵消，例如避免設施滿載運作、減少差旅費等等。因此，我們完全預期這些成本會在2021年回落，因為我們預期產能接近滿載運轉。所以，這會讓每股收益略有下降。但實際上，我們實現的1億美元成長與我們大多數年份的水平基本一致。當然，我們會努力爭取更多，但1億美元是我們目前的目標。

Yes, Ghansham, we did have the tow plant shutdown that occurred at the end of 2019, which was kind of a big item as we started 2020 that's in this year's number. And we don't have an item that large as we go into 2021.

是的，甘沙姆，我們確實在2019年底關閉了拖車廠，這在2020年伊始算是一個大項目，也算在今年的數據裡。但進入2021年，我們並沒有出現這麼大的計畫。

Our next question comes from the line of Kevin McCarthy with Vertical Research Partners.

我們的下一個問題來自 Vertical Research Partners 的 Kevin McCarthy。

Now that you've closed the Polyplastics transaction, what is your estimate of the after-tax proceeds, would be the first part? And then secondly, of the proceeds, I think you mentioned you intend to use $400 million to repurchase shares just in the fourth quarter. And I was wondering, as a practical matter, if you determined whether to do that via an ASR or open market repurchases.

既然你們已經完成了寶理塑膠的交易，你們預計稅後收益是多少？第一部分會是多少？其次，關於收益，我記得您提到過，僅在第四季就計劃用4億美元回購股票。我想知道，從實際角度來看，您是否已經確定是透過ASR還是公開市場回購來實現這一目標。

Yes. So for Polyplastics, we expect the after-tax proceeds to be something greater than $1.3 billion. We are repurchasing, associated with that, $500 million to assure there's -- the deal is accretive. We did do a portion of that in third quarter, and we'll do the remainder in fourth quarter.

是的。對於寶理塑料，我們預計稅後收益將超過13億美元。我們正在回購5億美元，以確保這筆交易能帶來增值。我們在第三季完成了部分回購，剩餘部分將在第四季完成。

Scott, you may want to answer the rest of the questions.

斯科特，你可能想回答其餘的問題。

Yes. We -- our strategy, Kevin, on repurchases has been to do open market, and that's our plan here in the fourth quarter as well as for the $400 million to $500 million that we outlined for next year as well.

是的。凱文，我們的回購策略一直是在公開市場進行，這也是我們第四季的計劃，也是我們明年計劃的4億至5億美元回購計劃。

Okay. Great. And then, Scott, as a brief follow-up for you, I just had a housekeeping question on free cash flow in the third quarter. Like you mentioned in the materials yesterday that it was $351 million. So apparently, a strong number there. Of that amount, you said you used $184 million to return to shareholders. Can you speak to what the balance of the free cash flow was used for? It looked like net debt just declined a little bit.

好的。太好了。然後，史考特，簡單跟進一下，我剛剛問了一個關於第三季自由現金流的問題。就像你昨天在材料中提到的那樣，自由現金流是3.51億美元。顯然，這是一個強勁的數字。你說其中1.84億美元是用來回報股東。你能不能說一下剩餘的自由現金流用途是什麼？看起來淨債務略有下降。

Yes. We did end up -- we built a little bit of cash, Kevin, just mainly for uses, geographic mix of where we needed cash. So cash on hand increased by roughly about $100 million from Q2 to Q3.

是的。凱文，我們確實累積了一些現金，主要用於我們需要現金的地區分佈。所以從第二季到第三季度，庫存現金增加了約1億美元。

Our next question comes from the line of Arun Viswanathan with RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 RBC Capital Markets 的 Arun Viswanathan。

I guess I was just kind of curious if I could ask this a different way. Maybe if you could help us understand your own volume levels from an exit run rate standpoint in Q3. In both EM and AC, on a percentage basis, are you running maybe about 80% or 85% of normal in certain markets? Or how would you kind of characterize your exit run rates on volume in each segment?

我只是有點好奇，能不能換個方式問。或許您能幫我們了解一下你們第三季從退出率（exit run rate）的角度來看的銷售量。在新興市場和新興市場，以百分比計算，你們在某些市場的退出率大概是正常水準的80%或85%？或者，您如何描述您在每個細分市場中退出率與銷售量的關係？

So I would characterize it, acetyls, we are just 1% below our 2019 levels. So I would characterize it as we are running pretty full everywhere again. Maybe we don't run every acetic acid plant full every day. That's not how we run it. It's not our strategy. But we -- our downstream derivatives, everything is running full.

所以我認為，乙醯基產品目前僅比2019年的水平低1%。所以我認為，我們所有醋酸工廠的產能又都滿載運作了。也許我們不會每天都讓每家醋酸工廠都滿載運轉。這不是我們的營運方式，也不是我們的策略。但我們的下游衍生物工廠，所有工廠都在滿載運作。

I mean in Engineered Materials, we are within 10% of where we were in this quarter in 2019, which is a pretty full quarter. So with the exception of things that are down for turnaround, are starting to go down for turnaround like the IPH POM, I would say, all of our facilities are running full.

我的意思是，在工程材料業務方面，我們的產量與2019年本季相比，只成長了10%以內，這是一個相當充裕的季度。所以，除了像IPH POM這樣週轉率正在下降的項目外，我想說，我們所有的設施都滿載運轉。

Okay. And then do you have any updates on your footprint optimization plan in AC and then also potentially adding some capacity in EM in China?

好的。那麼您對AC的佈局優化計畫有什麼更新嗎？以及是否可能在中國EM增加一些產能？

Yes. So as we said last quarter, for -- we've talked about the acetic acid expansion in Clear Lake and optimization of our network to do that. We have delayed that expansion 18 months, just in light of what lower oil prices and other things that make it attractive to continue to produce in other parts of the world. So that continues. So no announced plans of what we're going to do with the rest of our capacity.

是的。正如我們上個季度所說，我們討論了Clear Lake醋酸工廠的擴建以及為此優化我們的網路。考慮到油價下跌和其他因素，繼續在世界其他地區生產更具吸引力，我們將擴建計畫推遲了18個月。這種情況仍在繼續。因此，我們目前還沒有宣佈如何處理剩餘產能的計畫。

And then in EM, we are continuing with a localization project in China. Again, a little bit of a change from where we were, say, half a year ago, and that originally, we were looking at developing another site in China in order to continue to expand both our polymerization as well as our compounding and technology capabilities there. Due to some changes in Nanjing, which is where we have our other facilities, we actually had some more land and facilities available to us. And so we've actually redesigned that project, if you will, to take advantage of the efficiency of being able to expand on our existing locations. So those plans are continuing. You'll see more about that coming up. But those plans are continuing on a pace consistent with how we see the demand continuing to grow in China and the Asia region.

在電子製造領域，我們正在繼續在中國推進在地化專案。這與半年前的情況略有不同。最初，我們計劃在中國建造另一個工廠，以繼續擴大我們在中國聚合、複合和技術能力。由於南京（我們其他工廠所在地）的一些變化，我們實際上擁有了更多可用的土地和設施。因此，我們實際上重新設計了該項目，以充分利用現有工廠的擴張效率。這些計劃仍在繼續。您稍後會看到更多相關資訊。但這些計劃的推進速度將與我們對中國和亞洲地區持續成長的需求保持一致。

Our next question comes from the line of Alex Yefremov with KeyBanc Capital.

我們的下一個問題來自 KeyBanc Capital 的 Alex Yefremov。

You've recently announced a price increase in Engineered Materials of up to 10%. Could you tell us what's your expected realizations maybe over the next couple of quarters? And also, could you discuss what led to this announcement?

你們最近宣布工程材料價格將上漲高達10%。能否透露一下未來幾季的預期漲幅？另外，能否談談促使你們宣布這項消息的原因？

I'm sorry, Aleksey, I didn't hear the last part of your question.

抱歉，阿列克謝，我沒有聽到你問題的最後一部分。

Just could you discuss what led to this announcement? Do you see tightness in any product lines or something like that?

您能談談是什麼促使您宣布這項消息嗎？您是否認為某些產品線會比較緊張，或類似情況？

Thanks. So yes, we just did announce the price increase. I mean as with all these things, they take a little while to work through. So if you think about it with increasing raw materials, with -- so especially ethylene but also increasing raws, like [acetic] acid and all those building block chemicals that go into polymers, we announced a price increase to try to get out in front of that to make sure we didn't have margin compression. So that's what goes behind the announcement.

謝謝。是的，我們剛剛宣布了漲價。我的意思是，就像所有這些事情一樣，漲價需要一段時間才能見效。所以，考慮到原材料價格上漲——尤其是乙烯，以及像[乙酸]和所有用於製造聚合物的基本化學品之類的原材料價格也在上漲，我們宣布漲價是為了搶佔先機，確保我們的利潤率不會受到擠壓。這就是我們宣布漲價的原因。

It takes us -- it does take some weeks or months to work through the price increase depending on contracts, depending on everything else, but we do expect to see those price increases flow through as we move into the fourth quarter.

根據合約和其他所有因素，我們確實需要幾週或幾個月的時間來解決價格上漲的問題，但我們確實預計，隨著進入第四季度，這些價格上漲將會得到解決。

And also Engineered Materials, your volumes were down 10% year-over-year. And you said in prepared remarks that automotive volumes were down 3% to 4% year-over-year. It also seems like appliances, electronics are doing well. So is the minus 10% primarily due to medical devices? This seems a bit tied relative to the weight of medical in your total volumes.

還有工程材料業務，你們的銷量較去年同期下降了10%。您在準備好的發言中提到，汽車銷量較去年同期下降了3%到4%。家電和電子產品似乎也表現良好。那麼，下降10%主要是因為醫療設備嗎？這似乎與醫療器材在你們總銷售量中所佔的比重有點相關。

Yes. So I would characterize that our volumes were down a little less than 10% year-on-year. If you look at all of our end markets, from an industry basis, that was -- that is still down 10% to 15%. So we're doing a little bit better, I would say, than the end market. Auto, we're down just 3%. Again, auto itself was down closer to 3%, a little bit higher than that, closer to 4%. We were helped there by the fact that we think were aligned on good platforms like trucks and SUV in the U.S. and Germany, which has proven to be more robust as well as EV.

是的。所以我認為我們的銷量比去年同期下降略低於10%。如果從產業角度來看，我們所有的終端市場仍然下降了10%到15%。所以，我想說，我們的表現比終端市場好一些。汽車市場，我們只下降了3%。汽車市場本身的降幅接近3%，略高於3%，接近4%。我們認為，這有助於我們在美國和德國建立良好的平台，例如卡車和SUV，這些平台已被證明比電動車更強勁。

Industrial is actually up a little bit year-on-year, which has been a help for us. Electronics is pretty flat. But we are seeing appliances down year-on-year, closer to that 10%. And medical, as we said, is down about 15% currently year-on-year. So just really 2 sectors, I would say, that have the biggest impact, appliance and medical. But remember, auto is the third, so even 3% down on auto is a fairly big impact for us.

工業部門的銷售額實際上比去年同期成長了一點，這對我們很有幫助。電子產品部門的銷售額基本上持平。但我們看到家電部門的銷售額較去年同期下降，接近10%。正如我們之前所說，醫療部門目前的銷售額比去年同期下降了約15%。所以我認為受影響最大的只有兩個行業：家電和醫療。但請記住，汽車產業是第三大產業，所以即使汽車產業下降3%，對我們而言也是相當大的影響。

Our next question comes from the line of Laurence Alexander with Jefferies.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Laurence Alexander。

Two quick ones. First, on EM, what is the culture around the growth platforms of the growth priorities, i.e., should we expect to reshuffle every 3 to 5 years, so that 5G might be replaced by a new growth theme? Or is it an organic evolution sort of bottoms-up driven by just the project mix? And secondly, on acetyls, should we expect a zero-carbon acetic acid production project in the next 5 years to be announced within the next 5 years? And if so, would it have to be a greenfield? Or could you retrofit an existing facility?

簡單問兩個問題。首先，關於新興市場，圍繞著成長重點的成長平台的文化是怎麼樣的？也就是說，我們是否應該預期每3到5年進行一次重組，以便5G可能被新的成長主題所取代？或者，這是一種由專案組合驅動的自下而上的有機演進？其次，關於乙醯基，我們是否應該預期在未來5年內宣布一個零碳乙酸生產計畫？如果是這樣，它必須是新建項目嗎？或是可以改造現有設施嗎？

Yes. Great question. I would say on -- sorry, let me answer the last question first because I've already forgotten your first question because I've got to think about the last one.

是的。好問題。我想說的是──抱歉，我先回答最後一個問題，因為我得想想最後一個問題，所以我已經忘了你的第一個問題了。

So for acetyl, what I think in the next 5 years, I would not expect a zero-carbon technology. I think it's difficult to do. I mean there are always ways gets to zero carbon through purchase of credits, et cetera. I'm not sure yet. That's what our customers demand. That said, we constantly are looking at ways to reduce the carbon footprint of our existing facilities, whether it be through energy efficiency projects, the purchase of solar energy for our project, like we've just done a big contract in Clear Lake; the use of bio-based methanols, which have a greener footprint. So we're constantly looking at ways to reduce our carbon footprint. I would just say, at this point in time, we're not on track for a zero-carbon plant, again, unless we see a big change in demand from our customers.

所以，對於乙醯基而言，我認為未來5年內不會出現零碳技術。我認為這很難實現。我的意思是，總有辦法透過購買信用額度等方式實現零碳排放。我還不確定。這正是我們的客戶所要求的。話雖如此，我們一直在尋找減少現有設施碳足跡的方法，無論是透過節能項目，為我們的項目購買太陽能（就像我們剛剛在Clear Lake簽訂的一份大合約），還是使用更環保的生物基甲醇。所以我們一直在尋找減少碳足跡的方法。我只能說，目前，除非我們看到客戶需求發生重大變化，否則我們還沒有走上零碳工廠的軌道。

Yes. And on your first question, Laurence, about the Engineered Materials growth programs, I mean, this is our model. We work this. We're constantly working with our customers and evolving those focus areas and where we have our resources on innovation to be able to adapt to the changing landscape. So yes, today, it's things like 5G, electric vehicles, sustainable and recyclable polymers. As we go over the next -- and really, it's something we're evaluating really every year is where should our focus be and continuing to adapt. So yes, 3, 4, 5 years from now, we will be talking probably about some different things.

是的。勞倫斯，關於你的第一個問題，關於工程材料成長計劃，我的意思是，這是我們的模式。我們正在努力做到這一點。我們不斷與客戶合作，不斷發展這些重點領域，並利用我們的創新資源來適應不斷變化的情況。所以，是的，今天，我們的重點是5G、電動車、永續和可回收聚合物。隨著我們展望未來——實際上，我們每年都在評估這個問題——我們的重點應該放在哪裡，並不斷調整。所以，是的，3、4、5年後，我們可能會討論一些不同的事情。

I would just add to that, though. I think this is a little different than we did, say, several years ago, which was all bottoms-up. We've added this overlay of themes, because what we found is by waiting for the customers to come to us, we weren't necessarily getting to the right customer early enough in the development process to be their supplier of choice. So it has to be both going forward. It has to be bottoms-up as well as us looking at the landscape in the future and say, what are the emerging themes and how do we make sure we're there from the beginning, not waiting for someone to come to us.

不過，我只想補充一點。我認為這與我們幾年前的做法略有不同，那時我們完全是自下而上。我們添加了這些主題疊加，因為我們發現，如果等待客戶主動上門，我們不一定能在開發過程中儘早找到合適的客戶，從而成為他們的首選供應商。所以，我們必須兩者兼顧。既要自下而上，也要展望未來，思考新興主題是什麼，以及如何確保我們從一開始就參與其中，而不是被動等待客戶主動上門。

Our next question comes from the line of Bhavesh Lodaya with BMO Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 BMO 資本市場的 Bhavesh Lodaya。

This is Bhavesh for John. So in terms of acetyls, we were a bit surprised to see acetic acid and VAM pricing being as soft as it was in China. And yet, the industry itself seems to be running at pretty low downtime. So are you surprised at the high operating rates we are seeing right now? And then how should we think about the supply side of the equation as we think about next year?

我是 Bhavesh，John。就乙醯基而言，我們對醋酸和 VAM 的價格在中國如此疲軟感到有些意外。然而，該行業本身的停工時間似乎相當低。那麼您對我們目前的高開工率感到驚訝嗎？那麼，展望明年，我們該如何看待供應方面的問題呢？

Yes. Bhavesh, you may remember, we called this out in our earnings call in second quarter, which was that we did expect modest volume recovery, which we saw a bit better than expected. But we actually expected fairly flat pricing. And the reason was we said we didn't see the fundamentals in the industry to support more pricing. And I think, in fact, that's what we saw. So we did see an increase in demand in China, almost a 10% Q-on-Q increase in demand, but we also saw outages fall by 1/3. So then more supply came on to basically meet that demand. And as a result, utilization in China was pretty flat right at that 70% level. And that's why we didn't think we'd see pricing increase and in fact, why we didn't see the pricing increase.

是的。 Bhavesh，你可能還記得，我們​​在第二季度的財報電話會議上提到了這一點，當時我們確實預計銷量會溫和回升，而實際結果比預期要好一些。但我們實際上預計價格會基本持平。原因是我們之前說過，我們認為產業基本面不足以支撐價格上漲。我認為，事實上我們也看到了這種情況。我們確實看到中國的需求有所成長，較上季成長了近10%，但停駛次數也下降了三分之一。因此，供應量增加，基本上滿足了需求。結果，中國的產能利用率基本上持平在70%的水平。這就是為什麼我們之前認為價格不會上漲，事實上，我們也沒有看到價格上漲。

Now as we move towards the end of the third quarter and into the fourth quarter, we are seeing raw material prices come up. That's starting to push prices up. Generally, that results in slightly better margins. But I would say, to really see a good, strong price recovery, we're going -- and margin recovery, we're just going to need to see that utilization, especially in China, continue to improve.

現在，隨著第三季末和第四季的臨近，我們看到原物料價格上漲。這開始推高價格。通常情況下，這會帶來利潤率的略微提升。但我想說，要真正看到良好、強勁的價格復甦，利潤率的復甦，我們只需要看到產能利用率，尤其是在中國的產能利用率，繼續提高。

Got it. And then a quick question on -- in terms of how the sales are. So what percentage of the acetyl business is being sold through the derivatives, like emulsions and powders? And how should we think about maintaining that dynamic going forward? Because it certainly seems that that's smoothening out some of the volatility in the business.

明白了。接下來我想問一個關於銷售情況的簡短問題。乙醯業務中有多少比例是透過衍生產品（如乳液和粉末）銷售的？我們應該如何考慮在未來保持這種成長勢頭？因為這確實可以平滑業務中的一些波動。

Yes, absolutely. And that's definitely part of our strategy, which is to control as much of the chain as we can, so that we always have the choice not just geographically, where to produce and where to sell but also where in the chain to produce and sell. So if you look at our flexibility, we move anywhere from 40% to 60% of our acetic acid into downstream derivatives. And we flex that depending on what's more attractive.

是的，絕對是如此。這絕對是我們策略的一部分，即盡可能掌控整個供應鏈，這樣我們才能始終擁有選擇權，不僅是在地理位置上，在生產和銷售地點，而且在供應鏈的哪個環節進行生產和銷售。所以，如果你看看我們的彈性，我們會將40%到60%的醋酸轉移到下游衍生品上。我們會根據更具吸引力的因素來靈活調整。

And constantly, we try to -- we're continuing to build more VAM, more VAE, we bought Elotex. We continue to do things to give us more flexibility in that chain and more ability to move things around. I mean -- and a good example, I think, of that is if you look this year -- this quarter, sorry, third quarter, the amount of acid we sold into China was actually 20% less than what we sold in 2019 at the same time because of these kind of $300 per ton that wasn't attractive. We moved that volume into derivatives in China, which had better margins and also into other regions of the world.

我們一直在努力——我們仍在繼續生產更多VAM和VAE，我們收購了Elotex。我們不斷採取措施，提升整個供應鏈的彈性和產品調配能力。我的意思是——我認為一個很好的例子是，如果你看看今年——這個季度，抱歉，是第三季度，我們銷往中國的酸量實際上比2019年同期減少了20%，因為當時每噸300美元的價格並不吸引人。我們將這部分產量轉移到利潤率較高的中國衍生性商品市場，同時也轉移到了世界其他地區。

And you can see that really as well in the total, if you look at kind of the share of acetyl earnings that came from the very end of the chain, emulsions and redispersibles, last year, that was around 15%. This year, that's around 25%. So I think that just shows the -- just an example, the flexibility that we have in the model to really move to where the better margins are, whether it be geographically or acid versus derivatives.

從整體來看，你也能看出這一點。如果你看一下乙醯基產品收益中來自供應鏈末端（乳液和再分散性產品）的份額，去年約為15%。今年約為25%。所以，我認為這只是一個例子，顯示了我們在模型中擁有的靈活性，可以真正轉向利潤率更高的領域，無論是從地理位置還是從酸類產品還是衍生物。

Our next question comes from the line of Frank Mitsch with Fermium Research.

我們的下一個問題來自 Fermium Research 的 Frank Mitsch。

Congrats, Brandon, on your new role. If I could just follow up on that acetic acid question in China. I just saw something in [ICEs] that showed operating rates reaching levels not seen in a year, over 90% seems rather high. So I guess, are we ready to declare that China is fully back and we're restocking? Or how do we think about operating rates over 90% in China?

恭喜布蘭登，就任新職位。請問您關於中國醋酸的問題。我剛剛在ICE（國際原油期貨交易所）看到一些數據，顯示開工率達到了一年來的最高水平，超過90%似乎相當高。那麼，我們準備好宣布中國已經完全恢復生產，我們正在補充庫存了嗎？或者，我們如何看待中國超過90%的開工率？

Yes. I'd have to see the data, Frank, to be fair. There's a lot of different numbers reported. We are not seeing that kind of return in terms of utilization based on the numbers that we look at.

是的。弗蘭克，為了公平起見，我得看看數據。報告的數字有很多差異。根據我們所看到的數據，我們在利用率方面並沒有看到那種回報。

Dividend is strong, Frank, I mean there's no doubt it has improved in China. I don't know if we're ready to call it that it's back, if you will. But certainly, demand was strong at the end of the third quarter. And so far, the order books, as we see things into November, do suggest that the end of the year in China in acetyls should be pretty good.

弗蘭克，股息很強勁，我的意思是，毫無疑問，中國市場的股息有所改善。我不知道我們是否準備好稱之為“回歸”，如果你願意的話。但可以肯定的是，第三季末的需求強勁。到目前為止，從11月的訂單情況來看，確實顯示中國乙醯基市場年底的業績應該會相當不錯。

Got you. And Scott, I think Celanese had been talking about a 2020 free cash flow target, most recently of $800 million plus. Following this very strong third quarter, you're about $30 million to $40 million short. How do we think about 2020 free cash flow for the company? And I guess, a lot of the discussion has been on '21, and you're going to see higher earnings from productivity, turnarounds, recovery, but you're also going to see higher CapEx. Can you talk about what your expectations are on the free cash flow side?

明白了。史考特，我記得塞拉尼斯一直在談論2020年的自由現金流目標，最近的目標是8億美元以上。在經歷了強勁的第三季之後，你們的現金流缺口大約在3000萬到4000萬美元之間。我們怎麼看待公司2020年的自由現金流？我想，現在很多討論都是關於2021年的，你們將會看到更高的盈利，這得益於生產力的提高、扭虧為盈和復蘇，但同時也會看到更高的資本支出。可以談談你們對自由現金流的預期嗎？

Yes. The $800 million to $900 million for this year is still a good number. We think we'll be in that range even with some tax payments that will be made relative to the transaction that we completed. So that's still a good range for this year. And then as we look forward into next year, a lot will depend, honestly, Frank, as to where demand is. But we think that working capital inventory levels will be kind of at the run rate where we need them as we end this year. So we shouldn't have a big working capital pickup that occurs next year. And so it should be pretty robust, and we feel comfortable with where cash flow is going to be to call out that -- those repurchases of $400 million to $500 million for next year, and we expect those to come from free cash flow.

是的。今年8億到9億美元的預算仍然不錯。即使考慮到我們完成的交易會產生一些稅費，我們認為我們的預算也會在這個範圍內。所以，對於今年來說，這仍然是一個不錯的預算範圍。展望明年，坦白說，弗蘭克，很多事情都取決於需求。但我們認為，到今年年底，營運資本庫存水準將達到我們所需的運作率。所以，明年我們的營運資本應該不會大幅增加。所以，我們的營運資本應該會相當強勁，我們對現金流的預期也比較樂觀──明年回購4億到5億美元，我們預期這些資金將來自自由現金流。

Our last question comes from the line of Matthew Blair with Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co.

我們的最後一個問題來自 Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. 的 Matthew Blair。

Lori, I was just hoping I could circle back to the electric vehicle space. I mean it really sounds like your opportunity is in the battery side. Do you have any other opportunities we should be thinking about? And also, does the growth of EVs -- does that help your existing plastics business into the auto sector?

洛里，我只是想回到電動車領域。我的意思是，聽起來你們的機會確實在電池方面。你們還有其他值得我們思考的機會嗎？另外，電動車的成長是否有助於你們現有的塑膠業務進入汽車領域？

Yes. No, there's -- we talk about lithium-ion battery separators because we are such a major player in that component, and clearly, that's the easy one to see. But frankly, EVs in themselves are a great opportunity for the polymer space. I mean so you think about the literally miles of electrical cabling, all of which needs connectors. That's a great opportunity for us. You think about how quiet EVs are and the fact that now people don't want to hear all the squeaks and things that used to be covered up by the sound of the motor. So great application for things like POM that have really good tribology and can minimize the amount of wearing between components that lead to those squeaks.

是的。不，有——我們談論鋰離子電池隔膜，因為我們是該部件領域的主要參與者，這顯然很容易理解。但坦白說，電動車本身對聚合物領域來說是一個很好的機會。我的意思是，想想那些綿延數英里的電纜，所有這些都需要連接器。這對我們來說是一個很好的機會。想想電動車有多安靜，現在人們不想聽到所有吱吱聲以及過去被引擎噪音掩蓋的聲音。所以像POM這樣具有良好摩擦學性能的材料，可以最大限度地減少導致吱吱聲的部件之間的磨損，這是一個非常好的應用。

The electric vehicle has significantly more accessible polymer space, if you will, for us than a conventional vehicle, just in terms of because it needs to be light in order to have range and all those things I just spoke about. So we actually have a lot of placements in electric vehicles for any range of components from interiors to, as I said, everything about the electrical system and more and more under the hood there as well. So it is a big space for us. We see -- continue to see it as a big opportunity and one, as I said, we've really been focused on since the end of 2019.

對我們來說，電動車比傳統汽車擁有更多可用的聚合物空間，因為它需要更輕才能達到續航里程，以及我剛才提到的所有那些方面。因此，我們實際上在電動車領域擁有大量零件，涵蓋從內裝到電氣系統的各個方面，以及越來越多的引擎蓋下零件。所以這對我們來說是一個很大的發展空間。我們一直將其視為一個巨大的機遇，正如我所說，我們自2019年底以來就一直專注於此。

There's no further questions. I'd like to hand the call back to management for closing remarks.

沒有其他問題了。我想把電話交還給管理階層，請他們做最後發言。

Thank you. We'd like to thank everybody for listening in today. As usual, we're available after the call for any further questions you might have. Doug, please go ahead and close out the call at this time.

謝謝！感謝各位今天的收聽。像往常一樣，電話會議結束後，如果您還有任何問題，我們隨時歡迎您。道格，請您現在就結束本次電話會議。

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's teleconference. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day.

女士們，先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與。現在您可以掛斷電話了，祝您擁有美好的一天。