W R Berkley Corp (WRB) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to W R Berkley Corporation's first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Today's conference call is being recorded. The speaker's remarks may contain forward-looking statements. Some of the forward-looking statements can be identified by the use of forward-looking words, including, without limitation, believes, expects or estimates.

大家好，歡迎參加 W R Berkley Corporation 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天的電話會議正在錄音。發言人的言論可能包含前瞻性陳述。一些前瞻性陳述可以透過前瞻性詞語的使用來識別，包括但不限於相信、預期或估計。

We caution you that such forward-looking statements should not be regarded as a representation by us that the future plans, estimates or expectations contemplated by us will be, in fact, be achieved. Please refer to our annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024, and our other filings made with the SEC for a description of the business environment in which we operate and the important factors that may materially affect our results.

我們提醒您，此類前瞻性陳述不應被視為我們對未來計劃、估計或期望實際上將會實現的陳述。請參閱我們截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 10-K 表年度報告以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件，以了解我們經營的商業環境以及可能對我們的業績產生重大影響的重要因素。

WR Berkley Corporation is not under any obligation and expressly disclaims any such obligation to update or alter its forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

WR Berkley Corporation 不承擔任何義務並明確否認有任何此類義務來更新或修改其前瞻性陳述，無論其是否由於新資訊、未來事件或其他原因。

I would now like to call -- I'd like to turn the call over to Mr. Rob Berkley. Please go ahead.

我現在想把電話轉給羅伯·伯克利先生。請繼續。

Krista, thank you very much, and good afternoon, good evening, all. Thanks for dialing in. And let me echo Krista's warm welcome to our Q1 call. So in addition to me on this end of the phone, you also have Chairman, Bill Berkley; as well as Principal Financial Officer, Rich Baio.

克里斯塔，非常感謝，大家下午好，晚上好。感謝您撥入電話。請允許我附和克里斯塔對我們第一季電話會議的熱烈歡迎。除了我之外，電話這頭的還有董事長比爾柏克萊 (Bill Berkley)；以及財務長 Rich Baio。

We're going to follow our typical agenda where momentarily, I'll be handing it over to Rich. He's going to run you all through some of the highlights from the quarter. I will follow behind him with a couple of additional observations and then we'll be very pleased to open it up for Q&A.

我們將按照我們的典型議程進行，我暫時將其交給里奇。他將向大家介紹本季的一些亮點。我將跟隨他提出幾點補充觀察，然後我們將非常高興地開始問答環節。

Before I hand it over to Rich, maybe just a sound bite or two for me, perhaps stating the obvious or not perhaps actually stating the obvious, I think the world is chock-a-block full of volatility these days, these weeks, these months and perhaps this year and maybe beyond. It seems to be presenting itself in a variety of different ways, political, social, economic and certainly natural catastrophes as well.

在我將其交給 Rich 之前，也許我只想說一兩句，也許是陳述顯而易見的事實，也許不是，也許實際上陳述顯而易見的事實，我認為這些天、這些週、這些月，甚至今年，甚至以後，世界都充滿了動盪。它似乎以多種不同的方式表現出來，包括政治、社會、經濟，當然還有自然災害。

But it is without a doubt a moment where the realities of risk-adjusted return come into very sharp focus. And from our perspective, it applies to both of the business activities that we participate in that being underwriting and investing. The resilience of our business model was once again demonstrated over the first quarter, and we feel as though it is another example of how this organization is not just built to perform well during moments where there is a tailwind or smooth seas. But in fact, it is built to continue to excel or succeed during more challenging environment circumstances.

但毫無疑問，這是一個風險調整報酬的現實成為人們關注焦點的時刻。從我們的角度來看，它適用於我們參與的承保和投資兩項業務活動。我們商業模式的韌性在第一季再次得到證明，我們覺得這再次證明了這個組織不僅僅是在順風或平靜的時刻表現良好。但事實上，它的建立是為了在更具挑戰性的環境中繼續保持卓越或取得成功。

From our perspective, it's very important to not lose sight of the goal of the exercise. The goal is to create value. And in our opinion, it's not just about the steps forward you take, it's also about the steps backwards that you avoid. So as we talk about the quarter, there is going to be no but-fors.

從我們的角度來看，不要忘記演習的目標，這一點非常重要。目標是創造價值。我們認為，這不僅關乎你向前邁出的步伐，也關乎你避免後退的步伐。因此，當我們談論本季時，不會有任何疑問。

There is going to be no lipstick on the pig or any other analogy. We're going to talk about what the results were with cat activity and with a variety of other events and how we managed to navigate through it. It is the reality, again, that when it comes to value creation and the power of compounding and what that means for value creation, avoiding steps backwards is very consequential.

豬身上不會塗口紅，或做任何其他比喻。我們將討論貓活動和各種其他事件的結果以及我們如何設法解決它。現實情況是，當涉及價值創造和複合的力量以及這對價值創造意味著什麼時，避免倒退是非常重要的。

So with that, I will hand it over to Rich. Rich, if you want to run us through the highlights, please. And I apologize every now and then if you hear a cough or a sneeze here in the Northeast, it is very much peak allergy season.

因此，我將把權力交給 Rich。 Rich，請你給我們簡單介紹一下其中的亮點。如果您在東北地區時不時聽到咳嗽或打噴嚏的聲音，我深感抱歉，因為現在正是過敏的高發季節。

Richie, over to you.

里奇，交給你了。

Great. Thanks, Rob. Appreciate it, and good evening, everyone. As you saw, the company started 2025 with a strong first quarter, reporting net income of $418 million or $1.04 per share and an annualized return on beginning of year equity of 19.9%. Despite significant industry-wide catastrophic activity led by the California wildfires, we continue to demonstrate stability in underwriting earnings and continued growth in net investment income.

偉大的。謝謝，羅布。非常感謝，大家晚上好。如您所見，該公司在 2025 年第一季表現強勁，報告淨收入為 4.18 億美元或每股 1.04 美元，年初股本年化回報率為 19.9%。儘管加州野火引發了全行業重大災難，但我們的承保收益仍保持穩定，淨投資收益持續成長。

Operating earnings were $405 million or $1.01 per share yielding an annualized return on beginning of year equity of 19.3%. The calendar year combined ratio was 90.9%, and the current accident year combined ratio, excluding cat losses, was 87.2%. The driver for this difference was cat losses of 3.7 loss ratio points or $111 million, representing an above-average cat quarter, primarily attributable to the California wildfires.

營業收益為 4.05 億美元，即每股 1.01 美元，年初股本年化報酬率為 19.3%。歷年綜合比率為 90.9%，本事故年度綜合比率（不包括巨災損失）為 87.2%。造成這一差異的原因是巨災損失，損失率為 3.7 個點，即 1.11 億美元，高於平均水平，主要原因是加州野火。

Prior year development was favorable in the current quarter by approximately $1 million, with small offsets between segments. Accordingly, the current accident year loss ratio, excluding cats, was 59.4%, representing a 30 basis points increase over the prior year, largely due to business mix.

本季度，去年同期的發展情況良好，成長了約 100 萬美元，各部門之間的差距很小。因此，本事故年度損失率（不包括巨災損失）為 59.4%，比前一年增加 30 個基點，主要是由於業務組合所致。

The expense ratio of 27.8% continues to benefit from the growth in net premiums earned, which grew to a record $3 billion. In addition, the 80 basis points improvement over the prior year quarter includes a nonrecurring compensation-related benefit of approximately half of this amount. We believe the expense ratio should be comfortably below 30% for the full year as we continue to invest in our newer operating units and make investments in our infrastructure.

27.8% 的費用率繼續受益於淨保費收入的成長，淨保費收入成長至創紀錄的 30 億美元。此外，與去年同期相比 80 個基點的改善包括約佔該金額一半的非經常性薪資相關福利。我們相信，隨著我們繼續投資新的營運部門並投資於我們的基礎設施，全年的費用率應該會輕鬆低於 30%。

As it relates to premium production, the company grew net premiums written to a record of more than $3.1 billion. The insurance segment grew 10.2% to our second best quarter of $2.7 billion with growth in all lines of business. The Reinsurance & Monoline Excess segment grew 8.2% to a record quarter of $439 million with growth in property and excess workers' compensation partially offset by a small decrease in casualty.

在保費生產方面，該公司的淨保費收入創歷史新高，超過 31 億美元。保險業務成長 10.2%，達到 27 億美元，是我們第二好的季度，所有業務線均成長。再保險和單一險種超額險部門成長 8.2%，達到創紀錄的 4.39 億美元，其中財產險和超額工人賠償金的增長被意外險的小幅下降部分抵消。

Turning to investments. Net investment income increased 12.6% to $360 million. The improvement is primarily attributable to two items: First, our record net invested assets of $30.7 billion and higher new money rates on our growing sixth maturity portfolio, along with strong operating cash flows in the quarter of $744 million. And second, higher investment fund income arising from transportation and financial services related sectors.

談到投資。淨投資收入成長 12.6% 至 3.6 億美元。這項改善主要歸功於兩個因素：首先，我們的淨投資資產達到創紀錄的 307 億美元，不斷增長的第六個到期投資組合的新資金利率更高，同時本季度的經營現金流強勁，達到 7.44 億美元。二是交通運輸、金融服務相關領域的投資基金收入增加。

As a reminder, we report investment funds on a one quarter lag. And with the recent volatility seen in the equity markets, you may expect some correlation between public and private equity markets. Accordingly, we anticipate investment fund income may be at the lower end of our quarterly range of $10 million to $20 million in the next quarter.

提醒一下，我們報告的投資基金數據落後了一個季度。鑑於近期股票市場的波動，您可能會預期公共股票市場和私募股票市場之間有一定的關聯。因此，我們預計下個季度投資基金收入可能處於我們季度範圍 1,000 萬至 2,000 萬美元的低端。

The credit quality of our portfolio remains very strong at a AA minus with the duration on our fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash equivalents increasing from the fourth quarter of 2.6 years to the current quarter of 2.7 years.

我們的投資組合的信用品質仍然非常強勁，為 AA 減，我們的固定期限投資組合（包括現金和現金等價物）的期限從第四季度的 2.6 年增加到本季度的 2.7 年。

Foreign currency losses in the quarter of $19 million related to the weakening US dollar relative to most other currencies. Offsetting this income statement loss is an improvement in the currency translation loss and stockholders' equity of $24 million. The effective tax rate was 22.5% in the quarter, and we continue to expect 2025 will be 23%, plus or minus.

本季外匯損失為 1,900 萬美元，與美元兌大多數其他貨幣走弱有關。抵銷這筆損益表損失的是貨幣折算損失和股東權益的改善，金額為 2,400 萬美元。本季有效稅率為 22.5%，我們繼續預期 2025 年有效稅率將為 23%（上下浮動）。

Stockholders' equity increased by more than $500 million or 6.2% over the beginning of the year to a record $8.9 billion. Book value per share before dividends and share repurchases grew 7.1% in the quarter. Our balance sheet remains strong with cash and cash equivalents of more than $1.9 billion and financial leverage of 24.2%, the lowest level in decades with no debt maturities until 2037.

股東權益比年初增加了 5 億多美元，增幅為 6.2%，達到創紀錄的 89 億美元。本季股息和股票回購前的每股帳面價值成長了 7.1%。我們的資產負債表依然強勁，現金和現金等價物超過 19 億美元，財務槓桿為 24.2%，為幾十年來的最低水平，並且直到 2037 年都沒有債務到期。

And Rob, with that, I'll turn it back to you.

羅布，說完這些，我就把話題轉回給你了。

Great. Rick, thank you very much. That was great. Let me offer a couple of additional comments just to piggyback on what Rich just shared. As far as the top line goes, came in where we were up about 10% or to be more specific, if I were a CPA, I would call it, 9.9%.

偉大的。里克，非常感謝你。那很棒。讓我再補充幾點評論，以補充 Rich 剛才分享的內容。就營業收入而言，我們的成長幅度約為 10%，或者更具體地說，如果我是註冊會計師，我會稱之為 9.9%。

But we are pretty pleased with that. Obviously, rate contributed to that ex comp coming in at 8.3%. In addition to that, the renewal retention ratio continues to hang around 80%. I mean it's like ballast to the ship. It just doesn't move around very much. But I think it's a relevant data point because it tells you, as we continue to push for rate and making sure that we're getting paid what we need to get paid, we are not churning the book.

但我們對此非常滿意。顯然，利率對扣除成本後的利潤貢獻為 8.3%。除此之外，續約保留率持續徘徊在80%左右。我的意思是它就像船的壓艙物。它只是不太會移動。但我認為這是一個相關的數據點，因為它告訴你，當我們繼續推動利率並確保我們獲得所需的報酬時，我們就不會翻動帳簿。

Drilling down a little bit more on the insurance front, particularly as it relates to market conditions. And I would tell you that professional liability has become particularly competitive. We've been talking to you all about the D&O market for some period of time. I would add cyber as well as far as competitive at the risk of being a little bit rude, which I apologize for in advance, I think transactional liability as far as the marketplace probably gets the stupid award.

進一步深入研究保險方面，特別是與市場狀況相關的部分。我想告訴你們，專業責任的競爭已經變得特別激烈。一段時間以來，我們一直在與大家討論 D&O 市場。我想補充一點，就網路和競爭而言，儘管這可能有點粗魯，但我提前為此道歉，我認為就市場而言的交易責任可能會獲得愚蠢的獎勵。

As far as maybe one other data point, we've chatted with you all about some of our reservations around workers' compensation and medical trend. And you might look at our numbers in the release and some of the exhibits and say, well, how does that reconcile with the growth that they're seeing.

至於另一個數據點，我們已經與大家討論了我們對工人賠償和醫療趨勢的一些保留。您可能會看到我們發布的數字和一些展覽，然後問，這與他們所看到的增長如何相符。

And let me, again, similar to last quarter, flag for you that the growth that we are seeing is really driven by specialty comp. And what do I mean by that? Typically, it's a little higher hazard in nature. There is less competition, and you're not seeing both regional and in particular, national carriers trying to play the game and leverage the multiline offering to get the comp. So that continues to be a good opportunity from our perspective.

與上一季類似，我再次向大家指出，我們所看到的成長實際上是由專業公司推動的。我這樣說是什麼意思呢？通常，自然界的危險性會更高一些。競爭較少，你看不到地區性航空公司，尤其是全國性航空公司試圖參與競爭並利用多線路服務來獲得利潤。因此從我們的角度來看這仍然是一個很好的機會。

Switching over to the other segment that being reinsurance and excess. I would call out here. I don't think we break out all this detail, but it will be in the que. And that is professional liability as a component of casualty. So our professional liability book as it relates to reinsurance was down a little over 25%. That is really just a reflection of market conditions. And quite frankly, our colleagues have the discipline and the courage to do the right thing.

轉到另一個部分，即再保險和超額部分。我會在這裡呼喊。我認為我們不會透露所有這些細節，但它會在隊列中。這就是作為傷亡事故組成部分的專業責任。因此，與再保險相關的專業責任帳簿下降了 25% 多一點。這其實只是市場狀況的反映。坦白說，我們的同事有紀律、有勇氣做正確的事。

So we'll have to see, I've commented in the past, it seems like the reinsurance market, just as it was some number of years ago, sluggish to respond to property, particularly cat, it seems as though yet again, we're seeing something similar just in the casualty lines and in particular, professionals. So we will stay tuned and see how that unfolds.

因此，我們必須看看，我過去曾評論過，再保險市場似乎與幾年前一樣，對財產，特別是巨災保險的反應遲緩，似乎我們再次在傷亡險種，特別是專業人士險種中看到了類似的情況。因此，我們將繼續關注並觀察事態如何發展。

Rich covered the loss ratio earlier. As far as the ex cat accident year and how it ticked up about 30 basis points. As you mentioned, that's really due to mix. The only other comment I would make is we are paying close attention, as you would expect, to the tariffs, and it is a very fluid situation as everyone has an appreciation. So trying to unpack that and figure out what it means for loss costs. That's something that we are working on actively. And again, as that comes into sharper focus, that may be instructive to us as to how we think about both loss ratio as well as rate need.

里奇早些時候談到了損失率。就除貓事故年份外，它如何上漲了約 30 個基點。正如您所說，這確實是由於混合造成的。我唯一想說的是，正如你所期望的那樣，我們正在密切關注關稅，這是一個非常不穩定的情況，因為每個人都有自己的理解。因此，嘗試解開它並弄清楚它對損失成本意味著什麼。這是我們正在積極努力的事情。再次，隨著這一點變得更加清晰，這可能會對我們如何考慮損失率以及費率需求有所啟發。

Just on for the expense piece goes, I would echo Rich's comment about comfortably under 30. The only other comment I would make, yes, he did flag that we had a bit of a benefit from an over accrual from last year. So maybe that's skewed it a little bit in the quarter, but arguably, it also meant that we overstated our expense ratio a little bit as it turns out last year. So it was actually a little bit better last year than we had reported.

就費用部分而言，我同意 Rich 的評論，即輕鬆低於 30。我唯一要說的另一點是，是的，他確實指出，我們從去年的超額應計中獲得了一點好處。因此，這也許在本季造成了一些偏差，但可以說，這也意味著我們去年的費用率有點高估了。因此，去年的情況實際上比我們報告的要好一些。

Flipping over to the investment components. So really, things are firing on all cylinders, not that there aren't challenges, but we're really pleased with the portfolio, how it's managed, how it's been positioned. Rich commented on the duration ticked out to 2.7 years and continue to maintain that very strong quality at a strong AA minus.

翻到投資部分。所以實際上，一切都在順利進行，並不是說沒有挑戰，而是我們對投資組合、管理方式和定位感到非常滿意。 Rich 評論說，持續時間已延長至 2.7 年，並將繼續保持強勁的 AA 減損品質。

I think one of the important punch lines here is the opportunity or the upside that we see, both on the underwriting side and now specifically on the investment side. So we have a book yield on the domestic portfolio approximately 4.7%. We got -- what's rolling off the portfolio is something below that. So we're going to see some lift from that.

我認為這裡的一個重要亮點是我們看到的機會或好處，無論是在承保方面，還是現在特別是在投資方面。因此，我們國內投資組合的帳面收益率約為 4.7%。我們得到的是——投資組合中正在滾動的東西低於這個數字。因此我們將會看到一些提升。

And in addition to that, we have a new money rate that's probably give or take around 5.2%. You got a $30 billion investment portfolio, call it, $27 billion or so, interest-sensitive/fixed income, cash, et cetera. So if you take, call it, 50-plus basis points and you apply that to $27 billion. That gives you a sense of where the earnings power is going.

除此之外，我們的新貨幣利率大概在 5.2% 左右。你有一個 300 億美元的投資組合，或者說 270 億美元左右，包括利率敏感型/固定收益、現金等等。因此，如果你取 50 多個基點並將其應用於 270 億美元。這能讓你了解獲利能力的走向。

It's certainly possible that at some point, you could see the interest rates at the shorter end of the curve come down. But from our perspective, the intermediate and longer term end, we don't see that backing off. If anything, it could tick up from here.

當然，在某個時候，你會看到曲線較短端的利率下降。但從我們的角度來看，從中期和長期來看，我們並不認為這種趨勢會減弱。如果有的話，它可能會從現在開始上升。

So long story short, the business had a very good quarter to say the least. Flirting with a 20% return in an environment such as this, where we saw exceptional cat activity, I think, is a very strong outcome. What is -- in my opinion, even more encouraging is, the rate accuracy that we continue to maintain while growing the business and in addition to that, what we've been able to do with the investment portfolio.

長話短說，至少可以說，本季的業務表現非常好。在這樣的環境下，我們看到了異常的貓類活動，我認為獲得 20% 的回報率是一個非常強勁的結果。在我看來，更令人鼓舞的是，我們在發展業務的同時繼續保持利率準確性，此外，我們還能夠利用投資組合做些什麼。

So as rosy as the picture is here, and it's not that there aren't headwinds and challenges. I think it's pretty evident that not only did we have a good quarter, but the balance of '25 is looking very encouraging and the foundation that we're beginning to pour for '26 appears to be quite solid as well.

因此，儘管這裡的前景很樂觀，但這並不意味著沒有阻力和挑戰。我認為很明顯，我們不僅有一個良好的季度，而且 25 年的平衡看起來非常令人鼓舞，我們為 26 年奠定的基礎似乎也相當堅實。

So don't -- did you guys have anything else you want to add. Okay. Then Krisa, why don't we take a pause there and we're very pleased to open it up to any Q&A that folks would like to have.

所以不要──你們還有什麼要補充的嗎？好的。那麼 Krisa，我們先暫停一下，我們非常高興地接受大家想要進行的任何問答。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Kligerman, TD Securities.

（操作員指示）安德魯·克里格曼 (Andrew Kligerman)，道明證券。

Hey, good evening. I was particularly interested in the short-tail lines up 13%, Rob, what areas did you get excited about? Because as I'm thinking about the property subset. And you called out rates being up ex property, meaning like?

嘿，晚上好。我對上漲 13% 的短尾線特別感興趣，羅布，你對哪些領域感到興奮？因為我正在考慮屬性子集。您說房地產利率上漲了，這是什麼意思？

Andrew, I beg your pardon, it's 8.3 ex comp, I'm sorry, if I misspoke it -- so it's 8.3 ex comp. And as far as the growth goes, we're seeing -- we continue to see opportunity on the property lines. And in addition to that, we are seeing opportunity in the A&H space as well. And those are probably the big drivers as far as the short tail.

安德魯，對不起，應該是 8.3 ex comp，如果我說錯了，我很抱歉——應該是 8.3 ex comp。就成長而言，我們看到——我們繼續看到房地產領域的機會。除此之外，我們也看到了 A&H 領域的機會。就短尾效應而言，這些可能是主要驅動因素。

I see A&H and property. And within the property component, I mean, I guess, property pricing is there's so many sublines, but I'm hearing kind of down mid-single digit. Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on that? Like what property lines do you like? And what are you seeing in rate in property?

我看到了 A&H 和財產。在房地產部分，我的意思是，我猜，房地產定價有很多子線，但我聽說價格下降了中等個位數。能否詳細說明一下這一點？您喜歡什麼樣的房產線？您看到的房地產利率是多少？

So as far as the insurance market space with regards to property and obviously, it's a pretty broad space. We continue to see opportunity to push rate at a pretty healthy pace on the risk front. On the cat front, certainly, there's a bit more competition, particularly coming out of the likes of Lloyds, both directly as well as through binding authorities that they seem to for some reason, be empowering.

就財產保險市場而言，顯然這是一個相當廣泛的領域。我們繼續看到在風險方面以相當健康的速度推動利率上升的機會。在巨災保險方面，競爭確實更加激烈一些，尤其是來自勞合社之類的機構的競爭，既有直接競爭，也有透過具有約束力的機構競爭，出於某種原因，這些機構似乎在賦予權力。

In addition to that, Berkley One, our private client, high net worth personal lines business continues to be able to demonstrate their considerable value proposition to the marketplace and grow their footprint while simultaneously taking very healthy rate. And then lastly, our A&H business, which has a rich history of performing at a very high level, continues to be able to capitalize on market conditions.

除此之外，我們的私人客戶、高淨值個人險業務 Berkley One 能夠繼續向市場展示其可觀的價值主張，擴大其影響力，同時獲得非常健康的利率。最後，我們的 A&H 業務有著悠久的歷史，一直保持著很高的業績，並且能夠繼續利用市場條件。

Got it. And in the reinsurance segment, I mean, again, you put up another fabulous combined ratio. I guess you did an 85.4 and that's even with 10.9 points of cats. Should we be thinking about that as a stable kind of run rate for reinsurance? I mean.

知道了。在再保險領域，我的意思是，你又提出了另一個極好的綜合比率。我猜你的成績是 85.4，甚至還有 10.9 分的貓。我們是否應該將其視為再保險的穩定運行率？我是說。

Well, I don't -- I think that we are very pleased with the performance of the business and how our colleagues very effectively positioned it. I don't think any of us know what tomorrow will bring with certainty. That having been said, I think the portfolio and how it has been created and put together has put us on a very firm ground both where we are today and how we're positioned to capitalize tomorrow. So I think that we, again, remain very encouraged with that business and how it's positioned.

嗯，我不這麼認為——我認為我們對業務的表現以及我們的同事如何非常有效地定位它感到非常滿意。我想我們誰都無法確切地知道明天會發生什麼事。話雖如此，我認為投資組合以及它的創建和組合方式為我們今天的處境和如何利用明天奠定了非常堅實的基礎。因此我認為，我們對該業務及其定位仍然感到非常鼓舞。

Elyse Greenspan, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的伊莉絲‧格林斯潘。

Hi, thanks. My first question, I know I think in the prepared remarks, you guys said -- you pointed out the $1 million of development in the quarter. And I think said it seems like nothing to call out in the segments. Would you be willing to give us just if it's immaterial numbers, just how much reserves in the quarter moved in both insurance and reinsurance.

你好，謝謝。我的第一個問題，我知道我認為在準備好的發言中，你們說 - 你們指出了本季度 100 萬美元的發展。我認為這些片段中似乎沒有什麼好說的。如果是無關緊要的數字，您是否願意告訴我們本季保險和再保險的準備金變動了多少。

Yes. Richard, I don't have them. Rich, do you have each segment because it was -- again, I think people look at the combined and they kind of grasp their head, but we got a lot of moving pieces that come out this and the loss. So what were the pieces?

是的。理查德，我沒有。里奇，你有每個部分嗎？因為——再說一次，我認為人們看著綜合起來的部分，他們就能理解，但我們得到了很多移動的部分，包括這個和損失。那麼這些碎片是什麼呢？

So for the Insurance segment, it was $11 million unfavorable prior year development. And in the reinsurance and monoline access, it was favorable by $12 million.

因此，對於保險部門而言，上一年的不利發展是 1,100 萬美元。在再保險和單一險種的准入方面，其利潤高出 1,200 萬美元。

Thanks. And then my second question was on the underlying loss ratio. I think you guys said mix, right? And the prior question, right, on reinsurance, which which had a strong improvement in the quarter. We did see some year-over-year deterioration in insurance in the Q1. Can you just -- I'm assuming maybe mix was also attributed to that segment. Can you just walk us through what was going on within the underlying loss ratio and insurance in the Q1?

謝謝。我的第二個問題是關於潛在損失率。我想你們說的是混合，對嗎？之前的問題是關於再保險的，本季再保險業務有了很大的改善。我們確實看到第一季保險業較去年同期惡化。你能不能——我假設混合也歸因於該部分。您能否向我們介紹一下第一季的基礎損失率和保險情況？

Go ahead, Richard.

繼續吧，理查德。

So as you pointed out, Elyse, yes, it is business mix. Obviously, one of the elements that plays into that is also our outward reinsurance purchasing that we do. And you might recall we purchased reinsurance both at the group level, but we also purchased it at the operating unit level, and we've got 58-plus operating units across the group.

正如你所指出的，Elyse，是的，這是一個業務組合。顯然，其中一個因素也是我們進行的對外再保險購買。您可能還記得，我們​​在集團層級購買了再保險，但我們也在營運單位層級購買了再保險，我們在整個集團擁有 58 多個營運單位。

So theoretically, if some businesses are growing, others are shrinking perhaps the level of reinsurance plays into that because of the impact on the ceding commissions on the quota share arrangements, et cetera. So that's really, in large part, what drives that 30 basis points swing from the prior quarter.

因此，從理論上講，如果一些企業在成長，而其他企業正在萎縮，那麼再保險水準可能會受到影響，因為這會影響配額分成安排的轉讓佣金等。因此，這在很大程度上是導致與上一季相比出現 30 個基點波動的原因。

And then my last one. Obviously, you guys recently announced that Misumi Sumitomo is going to take right the 15% stake in the company. I know in the presentation that was put out, it pointed to them starting in May. I'm not sure if this is a question for you or them, but is there an update on the regulatory process? And is that May time frame still intact?

接下來是我的最後一個。顯然，你們最近宣布三住友將獲得該公司 15% 的股份。我知道，在發布的簡報中，它指出它們將於五月開始。我不確定這是您還是他們的問題，但監管流程有最新消息嗎？五月的時間框架還完整嗎？

So they are going through the process that they need to go through, and we try to be helpful as we would with any shareholder. But I think as you pointed out, Elyse, it's more of a question for them than for us. We are not in the -- all of the details and won't be in the details because we are not going to be precluded from being able to repurchase stock in the ordinary course as we have in the past.

因此，他們正在經歷他們需要經歷的過程，而我們會盡力為他們提供幫助，就像我們對待任何股東一樣。但我認為，正如你所指出的，伊莉絲，這對他們來說比對我們來說更是一個問題。我們目前還不清楚所有細節，也不會透露，因為我們不會像過去那樣被禁止以正常方式回購股票。

Rob Cox, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的羅布·考克斯（Rob Cox）。

Hey, I wanted to zone back in on the tariff impact. I know you guys are still assessing. But maybe specifically on the property lines of business and the high net worth homeowners, how are you thinking about what the impact of tariffs might be?

嘿，我想重新討論一下關稅的影響。我知道你們仍在評估。但也許具體到房地產業務和高淨值房主，您如何看待關稅可能產生的影響？

Well, as you'd expect, Rob, we're particularly focused on the shorter tail lines, both auto, particularly around the physical damage as well as property. But I think it would be a mistake for one to discount other lines as well. So for example, workers' compensation and what the impact could be around pharma. A lot of drugs are manufactured outside of the United States.

好吧，正如你所期望的，羅布，我們特別關注較短的尾線，包括汽車，特別是圍繞物理損壞和財產。但我認為，如果一個人也低估其他線路，那也是個錯誤。例如，工人賠償以及其對製藥業可能產生的影響。許多藥物都是在美國境外生產的。

So it's something that we're very focused on. The whole tariff situation, again, as mentioned earlier, and I know you and others appreciate is very fluid. We are doing our best to try and read the tea leaves, and we are actively doing a variety of different analyses to try and figure out what this means for loss picks and how that would instruct rate need.

所以這是我們非常關注的事情。正如之前提到的，我知道您和其他人都意識到整個關稅情況非常不穩定。我們正在盡最大努力去解讀茶葉，並且我們正在積極進行各種不同的分析，試圖弄清楚這對損失選擇意味著什麼，以及這將如何指導利率需求。

So yes, does it have an impact on property? Yes, potentially, it would. Would that include personal lines and homeowners? Without a doubt. And certainly, another obvious one is auto physical damage. But while those may be the two more significant spots, I would encourage folks not to underestimate or completely ignore other product lines as well.

那麼，它對財產有影響嗎？是的，有可能。這包括個人線路和房主嗎？無疑。當然，另一個明顯的例子是自動物理傷害。雖然這兩個可能是比較重要的點，但我還是鼓勵大家不要低估或完全忽略其他產品線。

Got it. That's very helpful. And then maybe just as a follow-up on the pricing. It sounds like it accelerated 60 basis points or so in the quarter. What are you seeing in terms of outliers by line of business? Is that any different from recent quarters? And what kind of the acceleration?

知道了。這非常有幫助。然後也許只是作為定價的後續行動。聽起來它在本季度加速了 60 個基點左右。您看到各業務線的異常值有哪些？這與最近幾季有什麼不同嗎？加速度是什麼樣的？

Yes. I think it's pretty consistent with what we've seen in the past and there are some product lines that we talked about in the past, like auto liability, as an example, where we are very focused on loss cost trends, social inflation and doing what we need to do to keep up with that and other liability lines as well. But as we've called out in the past, auto liability and particularly umbrella and how the auto liability feeds the umbrella exposure are areas that we continue to push pretty hard on.

是的。我認為這與我們過去看到的情況非常一致，我們過去談論過的一些產品線，例如汽車責任險，我們非常關注損失成本趨勢、社會通膨以及我們需要做的事情以跟上這些趨勢以及其他責任險產品線。但正如我們過去所呼籲的那樣，汽車責任險，特別是綜合責任險，以及汽車責任險如何為綜合責任險提供保障，是我們將繼續大力推動的領域。

But I also would suggest that I wouldn't get overly preoccupied with 60 basis points one way or the other. I would suggest in my mind the takeaway is that the company remains very focused on rate adequacy and keeping up with trend. And I think that is evidence both in what we've delivered this quarter as well as what we've delivered for the past many quarters.

但我也建議，無論如何，我不會過度關注 60 個基點。我認為重點是公司仍然非常注重費率充足性和跟上趨勢。我認為這既證明了我們本季的業績，也證明了我們過去多個季度的業績。

Mike Zaremski, BMO.

麥克·扎雷姆斯基，BMO。

Hey, good afternoon. I guess going back to the macro and appreciating that with the tariffs, there's lots of uncertainty. But maybe curious if you can kind of talk high level about your view on work comp profitability under a recession scenario? I know you just kind of basically said keeping an eye on tariffs impact on pharma costs.

嘿，下午好。我想回到宏觀層面，並認識到關稅存在許多不確定性。但也許我很好奇，您是否可以從高層次談談您對經濟衰退情況下工傷賠償盈利能力的看法？我知道您剛才基本上說過要關注關稅對製藥成本的影響。

But I'm -- I guess curious more specifically has higher than historical wage inflation levels, has that been a material tailwind in recent years that we should be thinking about to under a recession scenario? Or just any kind of high-level thoughts given that this line of business continues to be just highly profitable and we're getting a lot of recession questions.

但我——我更好奇的是，薪資通膨水平高於歷史水平，這是否是近年來我們在經濟衰退情況下應該考慮的重大順風？或者只是任何一種高層次的想法，因為這個行業仍然利潤豐厚，而且我們收到了很多關於經濟衰退的問題。

So I think the answer is, yes. I think coming out of COVID, when we saw significant wage inflation that comfortably outpaced much of the medical inflation equation that created a bit more tailwind or wiggle room for the industry. Obviously, that can cut both ways. And medical costs are a little bit more than 50% of every claims dollar. So one should not, in our opinion, underestimate the significance around that.

所以我認為答案是肯定的。我認為，在新冠疫情結束後，我們看到工資大幅上漲，遠遠超過醫療通膨的大部分水平，這為該行業創造了更多的順風或迴旋空間。顯然，這是有利有弊的。醫療費用佔索賠金額的 50% 多一點。因此，我們認為，不應低估這一點的重要性。

So long story short, to your point, Mike, I think it does cut both ways and one will need to see how it unfolds. But again, as far as the growth that we're seeing in comp, it partly has been to -- due to wage inflation, but even more so, as we flagged earlier today as well as, I think in the prior call, we see opportunity in some of the comp market that is less commoditized and it's more specialty in nature.

長話短說，麥克，就你的觀點而言，我認為這確實是雙向的，我們需要看看它是如何展開的。但是，就我們在公司中看到的成長而言，部分原因是薪資上漲，但更重要的是，正如我們今天早些時候提到的，我認為在之前的電話會議中，我們在一些商品化程度較低、專業性更強的公司市場中看到了機會。

So yes, I think to get to your specific question, I think wage inflation was a plus, but that can cut both ways. And to your point, I think people need to be very conscious of that.

是的，我想回答你的具體問題，我認為薪資通膨是一個好處，但也可能帶來兩面性。關於你的觀點，我認為人們需要非常清楚這一點。

Okay. That's very helpful. maybe switching gears a bit to lawsuits social inflation. If thinking kind of looking at Berkeley's past disclosure and just the industry as well. Other liability occurrence continues to be. I know you said no analogies, but kind of pig through the python.

好的。這非常有幫助。或許可以稍微改變話題，以因應社會通貨膨脹。如果我們回顧一下伯克利過去的披露情況以及整個行業的情況。其他責任發生仍在繼續。我知道您說不要類比，但有點像用蟒蛇打比方。

Do you feel pricing levels for other liability occurrence, I know that it works its way through different lines. But do you feel that pricing is that kind of a level where directionally roughly can start playing offense? Or do we really need to see -- continue to see a material increase in pricing there to really feel like the coast is clear?

您是否認為其他責任發生的定價水平是不同的，我知道它是透過不同的方式發揮作用的。但是您是否認為定價已經達到了可以開始進攻的水平？或者我們真的需要看到——繼續看到那裡的價格大幅上漲，才能真正感覺到一切順利？

I think that we've done a pretty good job keeping up with it. And the question really is how the balance of the market will behave, and we are encouraged by what we saw, quite frankly, more recently with additional discipline coming into the market in certain product lines.

我認為我們在保持這一步伐方面做得相當不錯。真正的問題是市場平衡將如何表現，坦白說，最近我們看到某些產品線進入市場的額外紀律，這讓我們感到鼓舞。

That having been said, we don't know necessarily what tomorrow will bring. So will there be an opportunity for us to accelerate the growth, we'll have to see with time, Mike. But again, one of the things, and I think you're in some ways, flagging it right now is how different the market is and our product lines have decoupled.

話雖如此，我們不一定知道明天會發生什麼事。那麼，我們是否還有機會加速成長，我們還得隨著時間的推移才能看到結果，麥克。但同樣，我認為您現在在某種程度上已經注意到的一個問題是，市場有多麼不同，我們的產品線已經脫鉤。

And one of the benefits that we, as an organization, are enjoying is the breadth of our offering. So there are parts of the marketplace that we participate in, where we are maintaining very much of a defensive posture and there are other parts of the marketplace where we're finding opportunity to lean in.

作為一個組織，我們享受到的好處之一就是我們提供的服務範圍廣泛。因此，在我們參與的市場部分中，我們保持著非常防禦的姿態，而在市場的其他部分，我們正在尋找機會參與其中。

Other liability occurrence, we'll have to see how it unfolds. Clearly, there are many folks that have taken some bumps and bruises, particularly on the excess and umbrella. And historically, that would suggest that will lead to opportunity. And if that is the case, we look forward to participating.

其他責任事件，我們將拭​​目以待。顯然，很多人都受過一些傷，特別是在多餘物和雨傘方面。從歷史角度來看，這意味著這將帶來機會。如果是這樣的話，我們期待參與。

Okay. Got it. We'll sneak in just a follow-up question to Rob Cox's question and your answer about tariffs impacting more than just the auto line. I probably just need to do more homework myself. But is there -- have you been willing to quantify just directionally commercial property, would tariffs under their current form potentially impact loss ratio by like just I don't know if you have a corridor like very low-single digits?

好的。知道了。我們將偷偷地對 Rob Cox 的問題和您的回答提出一個後續問題，即關稅的影響不僅限於汽車行業。我可能只是需要自己做更多的作業。但是，您是否願意量化商業房地產的方向性，目前形式的關稅是否可能會影響損失率，我不知道您是否有一個像非常低的個位數的區間？

So Mike, the answer is that the tariff discussion coming out of Washington, particularly led by the administration, I think, is still a bit of a moving target. So for us to put a number down right now, that -- I'm hoping that that's something we can do, give or take, 90 days from now for you and others. But right now, I think it would be premature.

所以麥克，答案是，我認為華盛頓的關稅討論，特別是由政府主導的關稅討論，仍然是一個不斷變化的目標。所以對於我們現在來說，確定一個數字——我希望這是我們可以在 90 天後為您和其他人做的事情。但現在，我認為還為時過早。

My message to you is that we are very focused on it and making sure that we will take the appropriate actions from a loss ratio as well as what that -- what those implications are from a pricing perspective as well. The short answer is if it comes to be as it's been advertised, yes, it's going to drive up loss cost. Do I have a number for you? No, not that would be particularly valuable to you or valuable to us sharing with anyone at this moment.

我想告訴大家的是，我們非常關注這個問題，並確保我們將從損失率以及從定價角度來看這些影響採取適當的行動。簡短的回答是，如果事情真的像廣告宣傳的那樣，那麼損失成本就會增加。我有你的電話號碼嗎？不，這對您來說並不特別有價值，對我們此刻與任何人分享來說也不特別有價值。

Understood. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

Josh Shanker, Bank of America.

美國銀行的喬希·尚克（Josh Shanker）。

We're doing great. I wanted to dig in just some of the comments. You mentioned in your prepared remarks that you have to concentrate on specialty workers' comp to understand why Berkley grew in the quarter in otherwise tepid comp environment.

我們做得很好。我只是想深入了解一些評論。您在準備好的發言中提到，您必須專注於專業工人的補償，才能理解為什麼伯克利在本季在原本不溫不火的補償環境中實現了成長。

But you always have a specialty as what you're writing. Is it -- were there a few unique opportunities that you saw in 1Q '25? And should we expect that workers' comp is going to be a unique area that Berkeley is able to grow for the next few quarters while the industry struggles?

但您所寫的東西總是有其特色。您在 2025 年第一季是否看到了一些獨特的機會？我們是否應該預期，在產業陷入困境的同時，工傷賠償將成為柏克萊未來幾季能夠成長的獨特領域？

So I think the -- maybe -- thanks for flagging that, Josh, and let me try and do a better job articulating the thought than I did. You're absolutely right that by and large, all we do is specialty in nature. But some of what we do that is specialty in nature, oftentimes by the standard market is mistakenly not recognized as specialty, and that tends to be smaller and midsized accounts.

所以我認為——也許——謝謝你指出這一點，喬希，讓我試著比以前更好地表達你的想法。您說得完全正確，總的來說，我們所做的一切都是自然界中的特色。但我們所做的一些本質上是專業的事情，標準市場常常錯誤地不認為是專業，而這些事情往往是小型和中型帳戶。

So as they are mistakenly coming into that marketplace that creates more competition and we have no qualms letting that part of the portfolio shrink. That having been said, what I was attempting to flag was there is a part of the comp market, which is perhaps even more specialized.

因此，當他們錯誤地進入該市場時，會產生更多的競爭，我們不會介意讓該部分投資組合縮減。話雖如此，我試圖指出的是，在電腦市場中，有一部分可能更加專業化。

And what I mean by that, it's even higher hazard in nature, where the standard market has a greater recognition for the complexity and is less inclined to try and come into that marketplace and cut rates and try and leverage their multiline offering. So apologies if I muddied the waters, but hopefully, that adds a bit of clarity.

我的意思是，它的本質風險更高，標準市場對複雜性的認識程度更高，不太願意嘗試進入該市場並降低利率，並嘗試利用其多線產品。所以如果我把問題搞混了，我很抱歉，但希望這能讓你更清楚地理解。

And is there anything we can use by looking at this number to think about the remainder of the year?

我們可以透過這個數字來思考今年剩餘的時間嗎？

Well, Josh, both you and I, along with others, though, that nobody knows exactly what tomorrow will bring. If market conditions in that part of the comp market continue as they have been more recently, then we will look forward to continuing to lean into that opportunity. If that opportunity or window of opportunity were to close, then you will see us do what you would expect us to do and we will have no qualms letting the business move in a different direction or away from us?

好吧，喬希，你和我，以及其他人，沒有人確切知道明天會發生什麼。如果該部分同類市場的市場狀況繼續像最近一樣，那麼我們將期待繼續抓住這個機會。如果這個機會或機會之窗關閉了，那麼您會看到我們按照您的期望去做，並且我們不會猶豫讓業務轉向其他方向或遠離我們？

So if I could ask the same question, but about a different market about commercial auto liability. It's been a tough market for a while. But this is the first time that I've really seen Berkeley's premium volume are really fade compared to the prior quarters. Has something changed in the last three months?

因此，如果我可以問同樣的問題，但針對的是商業汽車責任的不同市場。一段時間以來，市場一直很艱難。但這是我第一次真正看到柏克萊的保費收入與前幾季相比大幅下降。過去三個月有什麼改變嗎？

I think what it is, is just our commitment to rate adequacy and the rest of the marketplace has been a bit sluggish, particularly earlier in Q1. I would tell you more recently, perhaps, there's early signs of a green shoot coming through. Hard to know whether that is green grass or a weed but we remain hopeful.

我認為，這只是我們對利率充足性的承諾，而其餘市場一直有些低迷，特別是在第一季初期。我想告訴你們，最近或許已經出現了復甦的早期跡象。很難知道那是綠草還是雜草，但我們仍然充滿希望。

Okay. And if I can sneak one other in. Andrew mentioned about the cats. Notably, Berkeley has no exposure to California homeowners, which avoided the -- didn't completely obviously, being avoided the line of business that was most exposed to the biggest cat in the quarter, yet this was quite a big quarter for catastrophe losses for Berkley.

好的。我是否可以偷偷地把另一隻貓帶進來。安德魯提到了貓。值得注意的是，柏克萊沒有接觸過加州房主，這顯然避開了本季受巨災影響最大的業務線，但對柏克萊來說，這是一個巨災損失相當大的季度。

Has the premium footprint change as you've moved into short tail line and expose yourself more to property such that we should revise our priors and how we think Berkeleys cat loss exposure evolves relative to the market more broadly?

隨著您進入短尾線並更多地接觸房地產，保費足跡是否發生了變化，以至於我們應該修改我們的先驗，以及我們認為伯克利的巨災損失風險相對於市場更廣泛的演變？

Josh, so the way I would answer that is no, not really. First off, as far as the homeowners piece, I want to make sure there's no misunderstanding. It wasn't that Berkley One didn't get to expanding to California, a conscious and deliberate decision was made not to enter California.

喬希，所以我的回答是，不，真的不是。首先，就房主而言，我想確保沒有誤解。並不是說 Berkley One 沒有擴展到加州，而是他們有意識地、經過深思熟慮地決定不進入加州。

As far as the balance of the loss as it relates to that, it has to do with our commercial lines book. And we have felt as though the property market, as we've talked about in the past, is reasonably well priced, and that's why we were prepared to take on a bit more exposure. I think that view was validated because if you look at the result we delivered, even with having opportunistically modestly expanded our footprint or participation in the property space, we still delivered a 19%-plus return.

就與此相關的損失餘額而言，它與我們的商業險帳簿有關。正如我們過去談到的，我們感覺房地產市場的價格合理，這就是我們準備承擔更多風險的原因。我認為這種觀點是有道理的，因為如果你看看我們所取得的成果，即使我們適度擴大了在房地產領域的業務範圍或參與度，我們仍然獲得了 19% 以上的回報。

So long story short, do I think you should come away from this feeling like there's been a sea change in our approach to property and cat exposed property, no, I think that would be a mistake. Do I -- I hope that you'll continue to recognize that we are an organization that is opportunistic. And when we see things that are well priced, we're willing to take on a bit more exposure, yes, I would hope that, that would be the takeaway.

長話短說，我是否認為你應該擺脫這種感覺，就像我們對待財產和貓暴露財產的態度發生了翻天覆地的變化，不，我認為那將是一個錯誤。我希望你們能夠繼續認識到我們是一個機會主義的組織。當我們看到價格合理的東西時，我們願意承擔更多的曝光，是的，我希望，這將是收穫。

But no, there is not a sea change in our appetite for cat, if you will, and that's why arguably a $40 billion to $50 billion event relative to our size, I think by any measure, we are underweighted as far as our cat loss.

但是，如果你願意的話，我們對貓險的興趣並沒有發生根本性的變化，這就是為什麼相對於我們的規模而言，可以說發生了 400 億到 500 億美元的事件，我認為，無論以何種標準衡量，就我們的貓險損失而言，我們的權重都偏低。

Well, thank you for all the answers. Appreciate it.

好吧，謝謝你所有的回答。非常感謝。

David Motemadam, Evercore ISI.

大衛·莫特瑪丹，Evercore ISI。

Hey, good afternoon, Rob. I had just a follow-up question on the reserve development within the Insurance segment, the $11 million. I was hoping to get a little bit more detail in terms of some of the moving pieces there?

嘿，下午好，羅布。我只是想問保險部門儲備金的發展情況，即 1,100 萬美元。我希望能獲得有關那裡的一些活動部件的更多細節？

I don't have that in front of me. If you'd like -- maybe you could give Karen or Richard call tomorrow, we can unpack it. I think we have about $17 billion of reserves. So I didn't view $11 million is to be all and end all, but we're happy to do our best to unpack that for you.

我面前沒有這個。如果你願意的話——也許你明天可以給凱倫或理查德打電話，我們可以把它打開。我認為我們有大約170億美元的儲備。所以我並不認為 1100 萬美元就是一切，但我們很樂意盡力為您解決這個問題。

Great. And then I was -- I know not a big line for you guys either, but the property reinsurance growth was a pretty nice tailwind this quarter. ticked up quite a bit, I guess, how should we think about how sustainable growth is in that market within the property cat market?

偉大的。然後我——我知道這對你們來說也不算什麼大事，但本季財產再保險的成長是一個非常好的順風。我想，上漲了不少，我們該如何看待房地產市場中該市場的永續成長？

I think it depends on what tomorrow holds, how -- look, when the day is all done, the property market, particularly as it relates to reinsurance, was not as rosy at this [1.1] as it was a year earlier, but we still think that it's well priced.

我認為這取決於明天會發生什麼事——你看，當這一天結束時，房地產市場，特別是與再保險相關的市場，並不像一年前那麼樂觀，但我們仍然認為它的價格合理。

But as we've demonstrated in the past, whether it's property or any product line, if that opportunity shifts and is less attractive, we're very happy to let it go. So what we'll tomorrow bring, I don't know. But right now, we think that there's still a reasonable risk-adjusted return to be had. That having been said, we all saw a fair amount of erosion at 1.1. So I don't know if there's another year or not in the tank.

但正如我們過去所表明的那樣，無論是房地產還是任何產品線，如果機會發生變化並且吸引力降低，我們很樂意放棄它。所以明天我們會帶來什麼，我不知道。但目前，我們認為仍可以獲得合理的風險調整回報。話雖如此，我們都看到 1.1 有相當程度的侵蝕。所以我不知道是否還能再撐一年。

Got it. And then maybe just lastly. So there's been some efforts at tort reform in Georgia. I know you guys are a decent-sized player in Georgia within GL and commercial auto. I guess just curious on your thoughts in terms of what that does to sort of address some of the social inflation issues that have been problematic there?

知道了。然後也許只是最後。喬治亞州在侵權法改革方面做出了一些努力。我知道你們在喬治亞州的 GL 和商用汽車領域是一家規模相當大的公司。我只是好奇您認為這能解決那裡存在的一些社會通膨問題嗎？

I guess the short answer is we're pleased that it's getting the attention, not sure if it's enough, but it's a step in the right direction.

我想簡短的回答是我們很高興它得到了關注，不確定這是否足夠，但這是朝著正確方向邁出的一步。

Great. Thank you

偉大的。謝謝

Mark Hughes, Truist Securities.

馬克·休斯，Truist Securities。

Anything to say on admitted versus E&S and the mix shift, it seems like it's continued in E&S. How did you see that play out this quarter? And any commentary on submission growth would be great.

關於承認與 E&S 以及混合轉變的任何說法，似乎都在 E&S 中繼續。您如何看待本季的進展？任何有關提交增長的評論都是很好的。

So using a pretty broad brush, we are pretty pleased with the continued flow in the E&S market, ever increasing, particularly around some of the liability lines, casualty in particular and for that matter, excess and umbrella. As far as the property piece goes, there's still opportunity there, but probably a bit less than there was yesterday. January was a little bit more challenging, but we were very pleased to see how the balance of the quarter unfolded and found it to be quite encouraging.

因此，從廣義上講，我們對 E&S 市場持續成長的流量感到非常高興，特別是在一些責任險、特別是意外險、超額險和傘險方面。就房地產而言，仍然存在機會，但可能比昨天少一些。一月份的挑戰性更大一些，但我們非常高興地看到本季的平衡進展，並發現這非常令人鼓舞。

And then, Rich, on the reinsurance purchasing that you talked about influencing the mix which influenced the current accident year. Is that an ongoing phenomenon, do you think? Or is that -- is there some timing about the purchasing of the reinsurance that might have influenced Q1 more than others?

然後，里奇，您談到了再保險購買對當前事故年度組合的影響。您認為這是一個正在發生的現象嗎？或者是－購買再保險的時機可能會對第一季產生比其他季度更大的影響？

I don't think it has to do with the timing of the purchasing. It really is just driven by each of those operations, whether they're growing or shrinking or moving in or out of particular businesses and what the contribution is to the overall.

我認為這與購買時間無關。它實際上只是由每個營運部門推動的，無論它們是成長還是萎縮，是進入還是退出特定業務，以及對整體的貢獻是什麼。

So if you have a business as an example that we quota share some of that out to third-party reinsurers, and you don't have as much net premiums written contributing to the overall total net premiums written, it will obviously have an impact one way or the other.

因此，以您為例，如果我們將某項業務的部分份額分配給第三方再保險公司，而您的淨保費收入在總淨保費收入中所佔比例並不大，那麼這顯然會以某種方式產生影響。

So no, I think if you look at our session rate, we kind of hover in that high 14% to low 15% rate. So I think that our session rate is pretty consistent from period to period. It's really just the composition across the 58-plus operating units.

所以不，我認為如果你看看我們的會話率，我們的會話率徘徊在 14% 的高點到 15% 的低位之間。所以我認為我們的會話率在不同時期是相當一致的。它實際上只是 58 多個營運單位的組成。

Very good. Thank you.

非常好。謝謝。

Andrew Anderson, Jefferies.

安德魯安德森，傑富瑞集團。

Hey, good afternoon. Just on casualty reinsurance, you had mentioned the professional liability component. I was just hoping you could touch on kind of the rate and discipline that you're seeing in the market. And expectations or thoughts of that may be improving as we go through the year?

嘿，下午好。就意外傷害再保險而言，您提到了專業責任部分。我只是希望您能談談您在市場上看到的速度和紀律。隨著時間的流逝，我們對此的期望或想法可能會有所改善嗎？

So the punch line is -- a lot of it has to do with -- a fair amount of it has to do with D&O, a fair amount of it has to do with cyber and transactional as well and make a long story short it's not that we're running the same number of treaties and the rates just getting cut or the underlying is collecting less premium. It's our colleagues drawing a line in the sand and saying, this treaty does not make any sense to us any longer. We are not going to do it given the economics, which we very much applaud.

因此，關鍵在於 — — 其中很大一部分與 — — 其中相當一部分與 D&O 有關，其中相當一部分也與網絡和交易有關，長話短說，並不是說我們執行的條約數量相同，而利率只是被削減，或者標的資產收取的保費減少。我們的同事劃了一條線，說，這項條約對我們來說不再有任何意義。考慮到經濟因素，我們不會這樣做，我們對此非常讚賞。

Got it. So maybe still some non-renewals as we go throughout the year on that line perhaps?

知道了。那麼，也許我們在這一年中仍然會有一些不續約的情況發生？

Obviously, [1.1] is a big date, but we'll have to see how it unfolds. But again, of course, the stuff it comes through throughout the year.

顯然，[1.1] 是一個重要的日期，但我們必須看看它如何展開。但當然，這些事情全年都會發生。

Okay. And then just on specialty workers' comp. Is the rate there kind of similar to traditional workers' comp? Or what are you seeing in that market?

好的。然後只是關於專業工人的補償。那裡的費率是否與傳統工人補償類似？或者您在那個市場上看到了什麼？

It's a healthier market where we find the rates are higher, and we think the rate adequacy is more appropriate.

這是一個更健康的市場，我們發現利率更高，我們認為利率充足性更合適。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Brian Meredith, UBS.

瑞銀的布萊恩·梅雷迪斯。

Yeah, thanks. Hey, how are you? Two quick ones here for you. First one, just on the property reinsurance, again, were there any reinstatement premiums or anything in there that may have kind of elevated the growth on a year-over-year basis, just given the cat losses.

是的，謝謝。嘿，你怎麼樣？這裡有兩個簡短的問題供您參考。首先，僅就財產再保險而言，考慮到巨災損失，是否存在任何恢復保費或任何可能在同比增長的基礎上提高的因素？

Not material.

非物質。

Okay. Excellent. And actually, the next one is for Bill. Just curious, Bill, during the 1970s, we had stagflation. Maybe give us -- tell us what that kind of means for the commercial insurance industry and kind of what it was like back then with stagflationary environment.

好的。出色的。實際上，下一個是給比爾的。只是好奇，比爾，在 20 世紀 70 年代，我們經歷了滯脹。也許可以告訴我們——這對商業保險業意味著什麼，以及當時在滯脹環境下的情況如何。

Well, first of all, that's age discrimination. I think that the stagflation was a problem. But the inflation was somewhat different. It was much more focused and you saw it, it wasn't quite across the board in the stagnant economy. There are a lot of different moving parts. But I think that the industry when that happened went through a tough period of pricing pressures. But it wasn't a disaster by any means.

嗯，首先，這是年齡歧視。我認為滯脹是一個問題。但通貨膨脹情況有所不同。它的重點更加明確，正如你所見，在經濟停滯的背景下，它並不是全面的。有很多不同的活動部件。但我認為，當這種情況發生時，該行業經歷了一段艱難的價格壓力時期。但無論如何，這不是一場災難。

I think the industry was able to move along raising prices and keep up with that. But there was less growth because the economy really wasn't growing. So less growth, pricing was okay. And the industry lifeblood of new companies and change was diminished.

我認為該行業能夠繼續提高價格並跟上這一步伐。但成長放緩是因為經濟實際上沒有成長。因此成長較少，定價還可以。新企業和變革的產業命脈被削弱了。

So flexible modest size and larger-sized companies did well. Not a lot of new companies getting started. I was reading when we were just getting into the business. And you have lots of issues, including things we faced, we were just getting into the business.

因此，靈活、適度規模和較大規模的公司表現良好。尚未成立太多新公司。當我們剛進入這個行業時，我就在讀書。你有很多問題，包括我們剛進入這個行業時面臨的問題。

So in fact, just looking back at what that was, it opened the doors to really a much improving period of time. But margins were not what they were, although interest rates moved up. So we had improving interest rates. That was with -- interest rates started to move up where they had been settled at 3% to where they became settled at 6%. So it was an okay time for the industry.

所以事實上，回顧那段時期，它確實為一段進步的時期打開了大門。儘管利率上升，但利潤率卻沒有達到原來的水準。因此我們的利率有所提高。當時，利率開始上升，從穩定的 3% 上升到穩定的 6%。所以對於這個行業來說這是一個好時機。

If you paid attention to risk. But overall, bigger companies did better than smaller companies and opportunities exist itself. So like everything, there's no broad brush that gives you an answer, very, very differentiated.

如果你注意風險。但整體而言，大公司的表現優於小公司，而且機會本身也存在。因此，就像所有事情一樣，沒有一個概括性答案可以給你，這是非常非常不同的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Wes Carmichael, Autonomous Research.

韋斯·卡邁克爾，自主研究。

Hey, good evening. I wanted to come back quickly to the increase in the underlying loss ratio that was driven by mix. And Rich, I heard your commentary on reinsurance. And I don't think it sounds like it, but I just want to confirm, is there any mix standpoint on the expense ratio that you're seeing?

嘿，晚上好。我想快速回顧一下由混合因素導致的潛在損失率上升的問題。里奇，我聽到了你對再保險的評論。我認為這聽起來不像，但我只是想確認一下，您所看到的費用率是否有混合觀點？

There could be as well because, as I was alluding to earlier, depending on the contribution from quota shares with ceding commissions that could also have an impact on the expense ratio. So yes.

也可能存在這種情況，因為正如我之前提到的，取決於配額份額的貢獻和轉讓佣金，這也可能對費用率產生影響。是的。

In this case, that was less than a quarter.

在這種情況下，這個數字還不到四分之一。

Correct. That's right.

正確的。這是正確的。

Okay. Understood. And then just in the insurance segment, I wonder if you could just unpack growth a bit more. And Rob, you talked about workers' comp for a while. So any more color on the other lines, including other liability that you might call out in the quarter going forward?

好的。明白了。那麼，僅在保險領域，我想知道您是否可以進一步闡述增長情況。羅布，你剛才談到了工人補償。那麼，對於其他方面，您還有什麼其他細節嗎，包括您可能在未來季度中提到的其他責任？

I think it's a combination of just making sure we're staying on top of it with the rate and market conditions where we are seeing opportunity to grow, and we are making the most of that where the opportunities are.

我認為，這只是確保我們能夠掌握利率和市場條件的結合，在利率和市場條件下，我們看到了成長的機會，並且我們正在充分利用這些機會。

So a long story short, some of the product lines, it's rate rate all day like auto as an example. There are other product lines where rate adequacy remains very important and market conditions are such that it's allowing us not just to grow through rate, but to grow through exposure.

長話短說，一些產品線整天都在進行利率評估，例如汽車。在其他產品線中，利率充足性仍然非常重要，市場條件使得我們不僅可以透過利率來成長，還可以透過風險敞口來實現成長。

Meyer Shields, KBW.

邁耶希爾茲，KBW。

Thanks. If I go back to the specialty workers' compensation driving the growth, are the underwriting and claims handling tools different from the prior book of workers' compensation at Berkley.

謝謝。如果我回顧推動成長的專業工人賠償業務，承保和索賠處理工具是否與柏克萊之前的工人賠償業務不同。

Sorry, what was the last piece, Meyer, I beg your pardon? Are they different from what?

抱歉，請問最後一件是什麼，邁耶，您說什麼？它們和什麼不同？

So the legacy, in other words, the workers compensation business that you've written over the last few years.

換句話說，遺產就是您在過去幾年中所從事的工人賠償業務。

Well, I think the answer is that each one of the businesses are specialized in nature and some of the opportunities, as we alluded to earlier, with some of the higher hazard is creating a meaningful opportunity for us, and we are leaning into that. And is it -- yes, it has teams of people, as you know, were set up the decentralized structure with different businesses with their own focus and expertise to support that area of focus or to go hand-in-hand with that area of focus. So the answer is yes.

嗯，我認為答案是，每項業務本質上都是專業的，正如我們之前提到的，一些機會具有一些較高的風險，這為我們創造了有意義的機會，我們傾向於這樣做。是的，正如你所知，它擁有多個團隊，他們建立了分散的結構，負責不同的業務，並擁有各自的重點和專業知識來支持該重點領域或與該重點領域齊頭並進。所以答案是肯定的。

Okay. And then completely changing topics. So in the press release confirming Mitsui Sumitomo, their President and CEO talked about deploying their network to grow the value of their investment, which I think means Berkley. I was hoping you could flesh out what that means in terms of growth potential for Berkeley.

好的。然後完全改變話題。因此，在確認三井住友的新聞稿中，他們的總裁兼執行長談到了部署他們的網路以增加他們的投資價值，我認為這意味著伯克利。我希望您能夠詳細說明這對伯克利的成長潛力意味著什麼。

We'll have to see over time. Obviously, they are a large organization with a meaningful footprint in different parts of the world. And if there is opportunity for us to partner with them and bring some of our expertise and skills, then if that's something that makes sense for the business. That's something that we're very open to.

我們將需要一段時間才能看到結果。顯然，他們是一個大型組織，在世界各地都有深遠的影響。如果我們有機會與他們合作並帶來我們的一些專業知識和技能，那麼這對業務來說是有意義的。我們對此持非常開放的態度。

Okay. But that's nothing in 2025?

好的。但在 2025 年這不算什麼吧？

We'll have to see.

我們得拭目以待。

Okay. Fair enough. Thank you very much.

好的。很公平。非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And that concludes our question-and-answer session. And I will now turn the call over to Mr. Rob Berkley for closing comments.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我將把電話交給 Rob Berkley 先生，請他發表最後評論。

Krista, thank you very much, and thank you all for dialing in. As suggested earlier, I think by any measure, a very solid quarter, let alone when we had a cat of this size. Additionally, I think it was very encouraging, the top line that we are able to enjoy. And of course, that was nicely complemented by the continued benefit on the investment portfolio as well.

克里斯塔，非常感謝，也感謝大家的來電。正如之前所說，我認為無論以何種標準衡量，這都是一個十分穩健的季度，更不用說我們還有這麼大的貓。此外，我認為這是我們能夠享受的最高水平，非常令人鼓舞。當然，投資組合的持續收益也很好地補充了這一點。

Thank you all, and we look forward to connecting with you in 90 days or so. Have a good night.

謝謝大家，我們期待在大約 90 天後與您聯繫。祝你晚安。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。