W R Berkley Corp (WRB) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us, and welcome to the W.R. Berkley Corporation third-quarter 2025 earnings call. This conference call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，感謝各位的到來，歡迎參加 W.R. Berkley 公司 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。本次電話會議正在錄音。（操作說明）

The speakers' remarks may contain forward-looking statements. Some of the forward-looking statements can be identified by the use of forward-looking words, including, without limitation, believes, expects or estimates. We caution you that such forward-looking statements should not be regarded as a representation by us that the future plans, estimates or expectations contemplated by us will, in fact, be achieved.

發言者的言論可能包含前瞻性陳述。有些前瞻性陳述可以透過使用前瞻性字詞來識別，包括但不限於「相信」、「預期」或「估計」。我們提醒您，此類前瞻性聲明不應被視為我們對未來計劃、估計或預期將會實現的保證。

Please refer to our annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024, and our other filings made with the SEC for a description of the business environment in which we operate and the important factors that may materially affect our results. W.R. Berkley Corporation is not under any obligation and expressly disclaims any such obligation to update or alter its forward-looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

有關我們經營的業務環境以及可能對我們的業績產生重大影響的重要因素的描述，請參閱我們截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日止年度的 10-K 表格年度報告以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件。W.R. Berkley 公司沒有義務，並且明確聲明不承擔任何更新或修改其前瞻性聲明的義務，無論是因為新資訊、未來事件或其他原因。

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Rob Berkley. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我將把電話交給羅伯·伯克利先生。請繼續，先生。

Nicole, thank you very much. And let me echo your warm welcome to our Q3 call. So in addition to myself on this end of the phone, we also have Executive Chairman, William Berkley, as well as Chief Financial Officer, Rich Baio.

妮可，非常感謝你。我也要表達您對我們第三季電話會議的熱烈歡迎。除了我自己在電話這邊之外，我們還有執行董事長威廉·伯克利以及首席財務官里奇·拜奧。

We're going to follow our typical agenda where momentarily, I'll be handing it over to Rich. He's going to run through some highlights of the quarter. I may follow with a couple of sound bites of my own, and then you will have the three of us to -- at your disposal to try and answer any questions or engage in any discussion that participants would like to engage in.

我們將按照慣例進行，稍後我會把發言權交給 Rich。他將回顧本季的一些精彩時刻。我可能會接著發表幾句自己的評論，然後我們三個人將隨時為您服務，回答任何問題或參與任何參與者想要參與的討論。

But before I hand it over to Rich, let me just as oftentimes I do state the obvious. And that is -- I think the past 90 days is just a continuation of clear evidence that the insurance industry is still a cyclical industry. And for whatever the reason may be, some would say, fear and greed. The industry continues to seemingly make an art out of self-sabotage when it comes to its own success.

但在我把麥克風交給 Rich 之前，請容許我像往常一樣，說一些顯而易見的事。我認為，過去 90 天只是進一步印證了保險業仍然是一個週期性行業這一事實。而不管是什麼原因，有些人會說是恐懼和貪婪。這個行業似乎總是能把自我破壞變成一種藝術，尤其是在影響自身成功方面。

That having been said, we, as an organization, are not completely insulated from that, but we are able to mitigate that quite effectively because of how we -- what parts of the market, I should say, we focus on, particularly specialty and further more small accounts, which a lot of the challenge that continues to percolate and seems to be building momentum, again, we are somewhat protected from.

話雖如此，我們作為一個組織，並不能完全免受其害，但我們能夠相當有效地減輕這種影響，因為我們——應該說是我們關注的市場領域，特別是專業領域和更小的客戶群體，而許多持續存在且似乎正在積聚勢頭的挑戰，我們又在某種程度上受到了保護。

So let me leave it there. I'm going to hand it over to Rich, who'll run through some thoughts, and then we'll -- I will come back and offer a few more mines. Rich, please?

我就說到這兒吧。我要把它交給 Rich，他會闡述一些想法，然後我們──我會回來提出更多想法。里奇，好嗎？

Great. Thanks, Rob. Appreciate it. Good evening, everyone. Third quarter results were excellent with a return on beginning of year equity of 24.3%, reflecting an increase over the prior year's quarter of almost 40% and net income, $511 million or $1.28 per share. Operating income increased 12% over the same period to $440 million or $1.10 per share, with a return on beginning of year equity of 21%.

偉大的。謝謝你，羅伯。謝謝。各位晚上好。第三季業績非常出色，年初權益報酬率為 24.3%，比上年同期成長近 40%，淨利為 5.11 億美元，即每股 1.28 美元。同期營業收入成長 12% 至 4.4 億美元，即每股 1.10 美元，年初權益報酬率為 21%。

Further growth in underwriting and investment income drove the strong performance, combined with net investment gains. Pretax quarterly underwriting income increased 8.2% to $287 million. Calendar year combined ratio was 90.9%, and the current accident year combined ratio ex cat was 88.4%.

承保和投資收入的進一步成長，加上淨投資收益，推動了強勁的業績。稅前季度承保收入成長 8.2%，達到 2.87 億美元。日曆年度綜合比率為 90.9%，目前事故年度綜合比率（不包括災難事故）為 88.4%。

Cat losses represented 2.5 loss ratio points or $79 million compared with the prior year of 3.3 loss ratio points or $98 million. Current accident year loss ratio ex cat for the current quarter was 59.9%, reflecting an increase over the prior year attributable to business mix, however, comparable to the second quarter of 2025.

巨災損失佔賠付率的 2.5 個百分點，即 7,900 萬美元，而前一年的賠付率為 3.3 個百分點，即 9,800 萬美元。本季不計類別事故的本年度損失率為 59.9%，較上年有所增加，這歸因於業務組合的變化，但與 2025 年第二季的情況相當。

Drilling down further, the Insurance segment's quarterly accident year loss ratio ex cat was relatively consistent with the first half of 2025 at 60.9% bringing the accident year combined ratio before cat to 89.3%. Reinsurance and monoline access segments, accident year loss ratio ex cat was 52.6% with a strong accident year combined ratio before cats of 82.4%.

進一步分析，保險業務的季度事故年度損失率（不包括巨災損失）與 2025 年上半年基本持平，為 60.9%，使得事故年度綜合損失率（不包括巨災損失）達到 89.3%。再保險和單一險種業務板塊，不計巨災的事故年度損失率為 52.6%，不計巨災的事故年度綜合損失率為 82.4%。

Moving to our top line. Quarterly net premiums earned continue to benefit from written growth, reaching another record of more than $3.2 billion. Gross and net premiums written were $3.8 billion and $3.2 billion, respectively. Net premiums written grew in all lines of business in both segments.

接下來是我們的首要任務。季度淨保費收入持續受惠於保費成長，再創新高，超過 32 億美元。毛保費收入和淨保費收入分別為 38 億美元和 32 億美元。兩個業務板塊所有險種的淨保費收入均有所成長。

The comparable third quarter expense ratios were 28.5%, in addition to benefits from the growing net premiums earned on our expense ratio several of our recent start-up operating units are gaining scale and contributing favorably to the expense ratio. Technology enhancements are also contributing to operational efficiencies.

可比較的第三季費用率為 28.5%，此外，由於淨保費收入的成長，我們的費用率有所提高，我們最近成立的幾個新創營運部門正在擴大規模，對費用率做出了有利貢獻。技術進步也有助於提高營運效率。

Our pretax quarterly net investment income grew to $351 million, driven by an increase in our core portfolio of 9.4%. As a reminder, 2024 did benefit from heightened Argentine inflation-linked income and excluding such income from both periods, would increase the core portfolio growth to 14.6% quarter-over-quarter.

我們的稅前季度淨投資收益成長至 3.51 億美元，這主要得益於我們核心投資組合成長了 9.4%。需要提醒的是，2024 年受益於阿根廷與通膨掛鉤的收入增加，如果將此類收入從這兩個時期中排除，核心投資組合的季度環比增長率將提高到 14.6%。

Fixed maturity portfolio had a book yield of 4.8%. We do expect investment income from our fixed maturity portfolio to grow in the foreseeable future due to strong operating cash flow of almost $2.6 billion on a year-to-date basis and new money rates comfortably above the roll-off of existing securities.

固定期限投資組合的帳面收益率為 4.8%。由於年初至今強勁的營運現金流已接近 26 億美元，且新發行的債券利率遠高於現有證券的到期收益率，我們預計固定期限投資組合的投資收益將在可預見的未來增長。

The duration of our fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash equivalents increased to 2.9 years in the third quarter while strengthening our AA- credit quality of our portfolio. Stockholders' equity reached a record of $9.8 billion, increasing 16.7% from the beginning of the year, driven by strong earnings an improvement of $428 million in our after-tax unrealized investment losses and currency translation losses as well as capital return of $362 million through ordinary and special dividends and share repurchases.

第三季度，包括現金及現金等價物在內的固定期限投資組合的久期增加至 2.9 年，同時增強了我們投資組合的 AA- 信用品質。股東權益達到創紀錄的 98 億美元，較年初增長 16.7%，這主要得益於強勁的盈利、稅後未實現投資損失和匯兌損失改善 4.28 億美元，以及通過普通股和特別股息及股票回購獲得的 3.62 億美元資本回報。

As of September 30, our after-tax unrealized investment losses included in stockholder equity decreased to $177 million, and our financial leverage has improved to historic low levels of 22.5%. We've continued to generate significant capital. Company proactively refinanced its debt when interest rates were historically low, resulting in a low cost of capital and adding permanence to our capital structure with our nearest scheduled maturity in 2037.

截至 9 月 30 日，計入股東權益的稅後未實現投資損失減少至 1.77 億美元，財務槓桿率已改善至 22.5% 的歷史低點。我們持續創造了大量資金。公司在利率處於歷史低點時積極進行債務再融資，從而降低了資本成本，並增強了資本結構的穩定性，最近的到期日是 2037 年。

Our liquidity remains strong with almost $2.4 billion of cash and cash equivalents to invest. Book value per share before dividends and share repurchases grew 20.7% year-to-date. And 5.8% on a quarter-to-date basis. Rob, with that, I'll turn it back to you.

我們流動性依然強勁，擁有近24億美元的現金及現金等價物可供投資。截至目前，未計入股息和股票回購的每股帳面價值增長了 20.7%。截至目前，季度成長率為 5.8%。羅布，那麼，我就把麥克風交還給你了。

Okay. Rich, thank you very much. So maybe just a couple of quick soundbites for me that perhaps will invite a bit of conversation later on. Starting out with some observations regarding the market. The reinsurance marketplace, clearly, the property market, particularly property cat, that bloom is off the rose.

好的。Rich，非常感謝。所以，我可能只想簡單說幾句，或許能引發一些後續的討論。首先，我想對市場做一些觀察。很明顯，再保險市場、財產保險市場，特別是財產巨災保險市場，已經風光不再了。

From our perspective, there's still margin in the business. We'll see how long that lasts. It's without a doubt eroding. And to that end, you can feel the growing groundswell, but frankly, it's palpable around 1/1 and the appetite that's going to be coming from the reinsurance market. So we'll have to see what 1/1 holds.

從我們的角度來看，這個行業仍然有獲利空間。我們拭目以待，看看這種情況能持續多久。它無疑地正在逐漸消失。為此，你可以感受到日益高漲的勢頭，但坦白說，這種勢頭在 1 月 1 日左右尤為明顯，而且再保險市場的需求也將隨之而來。所以，我們得看看1/1會發生什麼。

As far as the liability side, again, from our perspective, and we've expressed this in the past, we've been a bit frustrated in the reinsurance marketplace, drawing a line in the sand and demonstrating some discipline, it would seem as though that reinsurers are dissatisfied with the underlying rate increases that their [cedents] are achieving from our perspective we think that there should be opportunity to push a little harder. That having been said, obviously, it endures to our benefit as a buyer of reinsurance.

至於責任方面，從我們的角度來看，我們過去也表達過這種觀點，我們對再保險市場感到有些沮喪，劃清界限並展現出一定的紀律性，似乎再保險公司對他們的（原保險人）所實現的根本費率增長並不滿意，從我們的角度來看，我們認為應該有機會再努力一些。也就是說，顯然，作為再保險的購買者，這對我們有利。

Flipping over to the Insurance side, for the comment earlier, from our perspective, and again, using a very broad brush year, larger equals more competition, smaller equals less competition, which certainly bodes well for us. On the property front, highlighting that, clearly, the world of shared and layered, as we talked about, give or take, 90 days ago is where the competition is heating up the greatest.

再回到保險業方面，就先前的評論而言，從我們的角度來看，而且再次以非常寬泛的年份來看，規模越大，競爭就越激烈；規模越小，競爭就越少，這對我們來說當然是個好兆頭。在房地產方面，很明顯，正如我們大約 90 天前討論的那樣，共享和分層式的世界是競爭最激烈的領域。

It is also pronounced just in E&S in general. That having been said, from our perspective, clearly, the small, admitted space as well as select parts of the homeowners' market continue to offer attractive opportunity. Not different from what we've expressed in the past as well. The world of professional liability is very much a mixed bag.

它也通常在東南部地區發音。也就是說，從我們的角度來看，顯然，小規模的、已確認的空間以及部分房主市場仍然提供了有吸引力的機會。與我們過去表達的觀點並無二致。職業責任領域的情況非常複雜。

On one hand, you have D&O that continues to erode, although at a slower rate from where it had been and the E&O market, generally speaking, is choppy. One of the brighter places, and by the way, it needs every drop of it and then some would be the world of HPL as an example, or hospital professional.

一方面，董事及高階主管責任險 (D&O) 仍在持續下滑，儘管下滑速度比以前慢了些；另一方面，職業責任險 (E&O) 市場總體上波動較大。例如，HPL（醫療專業人員）的世界就是一個充滿光明的地方，而且它非常需要光明，甚至需要更多光明。

As far as workers' compensation goes, Main Street comp from our perspective, consistent with what we shared with you in the past, tends to be particularly competitive. We have talked and talked and talked about California and certainly some of the challenges that market faces and happy to see the rate action coming through.

就工傷賠償而言，從我們的角度來看，正如我們過去與您分享的那樣，普通民眾的工傷賠償往往具有很強的競爭力。我們已經就加州問題進行了反覆討論，當然也談到了市場面臨的一些挑戰，很高興看到利率政策的出台。

A lot of that indigestion is being -- is coming about as a result of cumulative trauma and litigation stemming from that. GL, it would seem, at least from our perspective, for the moment, one is able to keep up with trend. Auto has been on again and off again. I think it was the first quarter where we expressed a view that there were some green shoots. In the second quarter, it was a little less encouraging and quite frankly, it remains pretty choppy.

許多消化不良的情況都是因為累積的創傷以及由此引發的訴訟造成的。GL，至少從我們的角度來看，目前看來，人們似乎能夠跟上潮流。自動功能時而開啟，時而關閉。我認為是在第一季度，我們表達了認為出現了一些復甦跡象的觀點。第二季的情況就沒那麼樂觀了，坦白說，現在的情況仍然相當不穩定。

A bit of a puzzle to me, and I believe, colleagues because there is no product line that has been more exposed to social inflation in our opinion than auto, but we'll have to see what happens with that. as far as our portfolio goes, and we can get into it later, we are reducing exposure. We're taking a lot of rate. And quite frankly, our top line is growing considerably less than our rate.

這讓我有點困惑，我相信同事們也一樣，因為在我們看來，沒有哪個產品線比汽車產業更容易受到社會通膨的影響，但我們還得看看情況如何發展。至於我們的投資組合，我們稍後再詳細討論，我們正在減少這方面的投資。我們收取了很高的利率。坦白說，我們的營收成長速度遠低於我們的成長率。

Over to umbrella, again, not without its challenges for the marketplace. Clearly, the smaller end of town has been the better place to be. And in addition to that, the indigestion that the umbrella line has experienced disproportionately has been impacted by auto.

再來看看雨傘產業，它給市場帶來了不少挑戰。顯然，城鎮的較小區域是更好的選擇。除此之外，繖形產品線所遭受的消化不良問題也受到了汽車產業的影響。

Rich covered our quarter in some detail. So maybe just a couple of quick observations on that front from me. Top line up 5.5 rate ex comp coming in at 7.6 different folks can interpret that in whatever the way they wish to. But from my perspective, it highlights the concept or the idea that this is an organization that is focused on rate adequacy. And to that end, we are very attuned to the fact that we are in business to make good risk-adjusted returns, not solely to issue insurance policies.

Rich詳細報告了我們本季的情況。所以，關於這方面，我可能只有幾點簡單的看法。頂級陣容 5.5 倍的競爭率達到 7.6，不同的人可以用他們想要的方式解讀。但從我的角度來看，這突顯了這樣一個概念或想法，即這是一個專注於費率充足性的組織。因此，我們非常清楚，我們從事這項業務是為了獲得良好的風險調整後收益，而不僅僅是為了發行保險單。

You would have seen some on the insurance front, growth in the short-tail lines, just to call a couple of pieces out, what's really driving that because you may be scratching your head saying, well, how do I reconcile this? What he was just babbling about? As far as the property line and competition.

您可能已經注意到保險業的一些增長，以及短尾險種的增長，這裡僅舉幾例，究竟是什麼因素真正推動了這種增長，因為您可能會撓頭說，好吧，我該如何調和這一切呢？他剛才到底在胡言亂語些什麼？至於產權界線和競爭問題。

There's really two pieces that are driving that. One is our personal lines effort in Berkley One, that being the private client personal lines. Where there is great opportunity, and we continue to lean into that. And in addition to that, our accident and health business continues to prosper as well.

真正驅動這種情況的因素有二。其中之一是我們在 Berkley One 的個人保險業務，即私人客戶個人保險業務。哪裡有巨大的機遇，我們就繼續抓住這些機會。除此之外，我們的意外和健康保險業務也持續蓬勃發展。

You would have also perhaps taken note of the growth in the workers' comp line. That not dissimilar to what we've talked about in the past is really driven by specialty comp. Some of it tends to be higher hazard and so on and so forth. It is not Main Street comp. The growth under the reinsurance banner, really, as far as the property piece goes, that's just us getting our last bite at the apple before the apple starts to rot.

您或許也注意到了工傷賠償業務的成長。這與我們過去討論的內容並無太大區別，這實際上是由專業薪酬所驅動的。有些專案風險較高，等等。它不是主街公司。就財產保險業務而言，再保險業務的成長，實際上只是我們在蘋果開始腐爛之前，抓緊時間吃最後一口而已。

We have a view as to rate adequacy and we have no problem drawing a line in the sand as we have demonstrated in the past. And as far as the excess line with the growth is coming from is primarily excess comp. Risk covers the loss ratio, the expense ratio. As far as the cat goes, that was really just SCS that gave us a little bit of noise there.

我們對評級是否充足有自己的看法，而且正如我們過去所證明的那樣，我們毫不猶豫地劃清界限。至於成長帶來的超額收益，主要來自過剩的薪酬。風險涵蓋損失率和費用率。至於那隻貓，那其實只是SCS給我們帶來了一點噪音而已。

The expenses, again, continue to be benefiting from our focus around automation, as Rich highlighted, but please understand we continue to make investments. So on occasion with the expense ratio, you will see us having to take half a step back in order to take multiple steps forward. Flipping over to the investment portfolio.

正如 Rich 所強調的，費用方面繼續受益於我們對自動化的重視，但請理解我們仍在繼續進行投資。所以，有時在費用比率方面，你會看到我們必須後退半步，才能向前邁出多步。切換到投資組合部分。

And again, I'm not going to completely pile on what Rich has already covered, but I would just flag that the duration did nudge out to 2.9 years. And we feel as though that we have a fair amount of runway before us. A, as Rich highlighted, the strength of the cash flow continues to build the size of the portfolio.

再次聲明，我不會贅述 Rich 已經提到的內容，但我只想指出，持續時間確實略微延長到了 2.9 年。我們感覺我們還有相當長的緩衝時間。正如 Rich 所強調的，強勁的現金流持續擴大投資組合的規模。

And in addition to that, we see the book yield continuing to go up from here. So just as a point of reference, the domestic book yield at the -- for the quarter was 4.6%, and our new money rate is, give or take, right about 5%. So growth in the portfolio, higher new money equals runway ahead. By and large, it was a pretty solid quarter.

除此之外，我們預期圖書收益率還會繼續上升。因此，作為參考，本季國內帳面收益率為 4.6%，而我們的新貨幣利率約為 5%。因此，投資組合的成長，更多的新資金，就意味著未來的發展空間。總體而言，這是一個相當穩健的季度。

And it wasn't just because the wind didn't blow and the earth didn't shake in a consequential way. It's because this is the trajectory that we're on, and it would take a lot to take us off that path. So when the day is all done, the underwriting opportunity continues to unfold. The discipline remains in place to ensure that, that margin is there. And our other economic engine being the investment portfolio, again, has much opportunity ahead of itself.

這不僅是因為沒有風，也沒有發生顯著的震動。這是因為我們正朝著這個方向發展，要讓我們偏離這條路需要很大的力量。所以，當一天結束時，承保機會仍在繼續。紀律依然存在，以確保留有足夠的餘地。而我們的另一個經濟引擎——投資組合，同樣擁有巨大的發展機會。

So let me pause there. Nicole, we are going to turn back to you, please, if we could open it up for questions. Thank you very much.

我就先停一下。妮可，我們現在要把麥克風交給你了，請問可以開放提問環節嗎？非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Alex Scott, Barclays.

亞歷克斯·斯科特，巴克萊銀行。

Hey Alex, good afternoon.

嗨，Alex，下午好。

Hey, think I got this unmuted correctly. So let me know if you can hear me, but --

嘿，我想我已經正確解除靜音了。所以請告訴我你是否能聽到我的聲音，但是--

Yes, we can hear you. We get stuff on mute at all the time. You're coming through a couple of times a day.

是的，我們能聽到你們的聲音。我們常常會聽到一些被靜音的聲音。你一天要來好幾次。

All right. I'll jump into it then. So I first wanted to ask you about how you're thinking about capital position of the company and just hearing a little bit more restraint in terms of what you're willing to grow into? But you're still getting some decent growth. What would your plans be for the additional capital flexibility that, that would give you? And what would the pecking order look like?

好的。那我就加入吧。所以，我首先想問您對公司資本狀況的看法，以及您在發展規模方面是否願意更加謹慎？但你仍然獲得了不錯的成長。您打算如何利用這筆額外的資金彈性？那麼，等級秩序會是什麼樣的呢？

So a couple of comments. If you were to take the rating agents -- some of the rating agency models, I don't know if it's all of them, but certainly, several of them. And you ran us through their sausage maker, it would tell you that we have significant headroom to the tune of 10 digits as far as excess capital. So loads of flexibility there.

有幾點要補充說明。如果你以評級機構為例——一些評級機構的模式，我不知道是不是全部，但肯定有好幾家。如果你把我們交給他們的香腸製造商來處理，它會告訴你，我們在超額資本方面有很大的空間，高達十位數。所以這方面有很大的彈性。

In addition to that, as you pointed out in your own words, we are generating capital more quickly than we are able to consume it. Obviously, as we've discussed in the past, we want to make sure we've got plenty of wiggle room that having been said, we're also equally conscious of the fact that the capital does not belong to us. It belongs to the shareholders.

除此之外，正如您自己所指出的，我們創造資本的速度比我們消耗資本的速度快得多。顯然，正如我們過去討論過的那樣，我們希望確保我們有足夠的迴旋餘地；話雖如此，我們也同樣意識到，資本並不屬於我們。它屬於股東。

And to the extent that we are not able to utilize it effectively, we should be thinking about returning it to the shareholders. We have multiple tools to do that. And so we have not been shy about utilizing them. Rich flagged the balance sheet, in particular, the capital structure. So not in a rush to do anything as far as the debt or related securities and that would really leave us with two options that being dividends and repurchase.

如果我們不能有效利用這些資金，就應該考慮將其返還給股東。我們有多種工具可以做到這一點。因此，我們毫不猶豫地充分利用了它們。Rich 特別指出了資產負債表，尤其是資本結構。因此，我們並不急於對債務或相關證券採取任何行動，這樣一來，我們實際上只剩下兩種選擇：分紅和回購。

And again, we are open and regularly thinking about that question. So let me pause there. That was probably a lot of babble without specific answer that you're looking for, but I'm probably not going to be able to give you a specific answer. But this so happens that my boss is here, and he spends a lot of time thinking about capital and excess capital, particularly as our by a wide margin, largest shareholder.

我們再次重申，我們對此問題持開放態度，並會定期思考這個問題。我就先停一下。我說的可能只是一堆沒有具體答案的廢話，但我恐怕也無法給你一個具體的答案。但碰巧我的老闆在這裡，他花了很多時間思考資本和剩餘資本，尤其因為他是我們公司最大的股東，而且股東人數遙遙領先。

So we spent a lot of in thinking about it. There'll be opportune times buy back stock. We've been a very effective utilizer of that tool, and we've bought back a lot of stock over the years. But it's because we're not impatient, we wait the opportunity comes. We continue to do that.

所以我們花了很多時間思考這個問題。總會有回購股票的好時機。我們一直非常有效地利用這項工具，多年來我們回購了大量股票。但正因為我們不急躁，我們才會等待機會的到來。我們會繼續這樣做。

In the meantime, we feel that special dividend is a way to let the shareholders know, we work for them. That opportunity to buy back shares can come at any time. We'll keep plenty of powder available so we can seize those opportunities. We don't think it's there right at the moment.

同時，我們認為派發特別股利是讓股東們知道我們為他們服務的一種方式。回購股票的機會隨時可能出現。我們會儲備充足的彈藥，以便把握這些機會。我們認為目前還沒有實現。

Got it.

知道了。

Thanks for the question, Alex. Nicole, was there another question out there?

謝謝你的提問，Alex。妮可，還有其他問題嗎？

Tracy Benguigui, Wolfe Research.

Tracy Benguigui，Wolfe Research。

Hi Tracy, good afternoon.

嗨，Tracy，下午好。

Tracy, a reminder to kindly unmute yourself.

崔西，提醒你一下，請你解除靜音。

Tracy, are you there?

崔西，你在嗎？

Hello. Can you hear me now?

你好。現在能聽到我說話嗎？

We can hear you now, Tracy. Sorry for the confusion with the new platform.

我們現在可以聽到你說話了，特蕾西。對於新平台帶給您的困擾，我們深感抱歉。

Okay.

好的。

I'm sure it was a brilliant question. I ask all my best ones when I'm stuck on mute, too.

我相信這一定是個絕妙的問題。當我被靜音時，我也會問所有我最要好的朋友。

That's okay. I want to go back to your comments about your excess capital position. It's my observation that this is an industry-wide phenomenon. Are you worried that the industry is sitting on too much capital and your competitors are so used to growth coming off a hard market, it's going to be hard for them to take their foot off the pedal. I'm just curious to your thoughts like what catalyst can you envision that could turn pricing around given the supply-demand equation?

沒關係。我想回到您之前關於您超額資本狀況的評論。據我觀察，這是一種產業普遍現象。你是否擔心產業內資本過剩，而你的競爭對手已經習慣了在市場低迷時期實現成長，因此他們很難放慢腳步？我只是好奇你的想法，在供需關係的基礎上，你認為什麼樣的催化劑可以扭轉價格局面？

Well, maybe a couple of comments there. So we took ex comp, and we back out comp because presumably, that's sort of keeping up through weight inflation. But we took 7.6 points of rate in the quarter. So as far as our ability to keep getting rate and keeping up with trend, we feel pretty good about that.

嗯，或許可以補充幾點。所以我們扣除了補償金，然後又扣除了補償金，因為據推測，這在某種程度上是為了應對體重膨脹。但我們本季利率上升了7.6個百分點。所以，就我們能否保持利率並跟上趨勢而言，我們感覺相當不錯。

That having been said, as far as excess capital, some of our peers have a lot of excess capital, some of them don't. We're really just focused on what we're doing, and we're focused on our value proposition to the marketplace every day. And if at some point, it means that we have irrational competitors that drive parts of the market to unattractive places as we've demonstrated in the past, so be it will shrink the business.

也就是說，就超額資本而言，我們的一些同行擁有大量超額資本，而其他同行則沒有。我們真正專注於我們正在做的事情，我們每天都專注於為市場提供的價值主張。如果到了某個時候，這意味著我們遇到了不理智的競爭對手，他們像我們過去所證明的那樣，把部分市場推向了不具吸引力的方向，那就這樣吧，這將導致業務萎縮。

As I, in a clumsy way, was trying to allude to in my comments earlier, given the breadth of our offering or how many different parts of the market we participate in and how the marketplace has decoupled as far as where product lines are in the cycle, that positions us as an organization to be more resilient when it comes to growth.

正如我之前笨拙地試圖在評論中暗示的那樣，鑑於我們產品的廣泛性，或者說我們參與的市場領域之廣，以及市場在產品週期中所處位置的脫鉤，這使得我們作為一個組織在增長方面更具韌性。

But look, when the day is all done, people may become more aggressive. Seeing some version of the movie in the past, and you and others have seen how we respond. As I suggested earlier, we're focused on making good risk-adjusted returns. If we can't do it, so be it, we'll let the business shrink.

但是你看，一天結束的時候，人們可能會變得更具攻擊性。過去看過這部電影的某些版本，你和其他人也看到了我們的反應。正如我之前提到的，我們專注於獲得良好的風險調整後效益。如果做不到，那就這樣吧，我們會讓生意萎縮。

Got it. And I want to go back to your auto comments. Since your growth was flattish, can you just unpack how much exposure you're reducing balanced by the pricing you're seeing there?

知道了。我想回到自動評論功能。鑑於您的成長較為平緩，您能否詳細說明一下，您透過減少多少風險敞口來平衡您所看到的定價？

I don't think we break out that detail. I will double check with Karen. And if we do provide that to the world, then I can assure you she will follow up with you tomorrow. But what I can say is I wouldn't have made the comment I made earlier, if it was just rounding. It's meaningful.

我認為我們不必透露這個細節。我會再跟凱倫確認一下。如果我們真的把這個訊息傳遞給全世界，我可以向你保證，她明天會聯絡你。但我可以肯定的是，如果只是四捨五入，我就不會發表我之前的評論了。這很有意義。

And we're just seemingly, there are some market participants, particularly those with delegated authority that don't seem to get where loss costs are. But that end in tears eventually, and we will have an opportunity.

而且我們似乎發現，有些市場參與者，特別是那些擁有授權的參與者，似乎不了解損失成本在哪裡。但那最終會以淚水告終，而我們將有機會。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Thanks for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

Elyse Greenspan, Wells Fargo.

伊莉絲‧格林斯潘，富國銀行。

Hi Elyse, good afternoon.

嗨，伊莉絲，下午好。

Hi, thanks. Can you hear me?

您好，謝謝。你聽得到我嗎？

Yes, we can hear you. Thank you.

是的，我們能聽到你們的聲音。謝謝。

Okay. Perfect. My first question, I guess, is just on Mitsui Sumitomo. I know we have not seen a regulatory filing hit indicating that they've hit a 5% --

好的。完美的。我的第一個問題，我想問的是關於三井住友的。我知道我們還沒有看到監管文件顯示他們已經達到了5%的目標——

Yes. I noticed that too --

是的。我也注意到了。--

In the company. Do they have to file when they hit 5%? Is there any update? I know you guys are --

公司內部。當持股比例達到 5% 時，他們是否需要提交申報？請問有任何更新嗎？我知道你們是--

My understanding is yes. I am not an SEC attorney, so full disclosure. That having been said, my understanding is they get to 5%, they need to file and every X amount of shares that they buy beyond that, they will have to do follow-on filings. I do not believe there is any reason for them not to have to comply with what everyone else does.

我的理解是肯定的。我不是美國證券交易委員會的律師，所以在此先聲明一下。也就是說，我的理解是，當他們的持股比例達到 5% 時，他們需要提交申報文件；之後每增加 X 股，他們都需要提交後續申報文件。我認為他們沒有任何理由不遵守其他人都在做的事情。

But as we also mentioned in the past, in an effort to ensure that we are not handicapped in our ability to participate in the market, we have no information beyond what you have as far as where they stand in their process.

但正如我們過去也曾提到的，為了確保我們參與市場的能力不受阻礙，除了你們掌握的資訊之外，我們對他們在流程中的進展一無所知。

And then my second question, you guys saw kind of stable rate price in the quarter. Growth slowed, right, mostly due to commercial auto, a little bit of their liability. It feels like that's a trade-off, right, Rob, you guys are willing to make.

我的第二個問題是，你們這季看到的是比較穩定的利率價格嗎？成長放緩，沒錯，主要是由於商業汽車行業，以及他們承擔的部分責任。感覺這就像是一種權衡，對吧，羅布，你們願意做出這樣的取捨。

I know last quarter, you said we're kind of in this 8% to 10% growth world. This was a little bit lighter. So does it feel like we're in a little bit lighter growth world as you guys look to keep as much price in the portfolio as you can?

我知道上個季度你說過，我們正處於 8% 到 10% 的成長期。這個稍微輕一些。所以，你們是否感覺到目前的成長速度有所放緩，因為你們希望盡可能地將價格優勢保留在投資組合中？

So from my perspective, the answers, Elyse, that we have major parts of the marketplace that are in some period of transition. Some are eroding and will likely erode further. Some are healthy and others are somewhere between the bookends, perhaps going through some stage of fits and starts in our opinion is you will likely see it needing to firm from here commercial auto being an example of that.

所以從我的角度來看，伊莉絲，答案是，我們市場的大部分領域正處於某種轉型期。有些地方正在遭受侵蝕，而且很可能會進一步侵蝕。有些汽車產業發展良好，有些則介於兩者之間，或許正經歷斷斷續續的發展階段。我們認為，汽車產業可能需要從現在開始走上正軌，商業汽車產業就是一個例子。

It's these periods of time of transition, which makes it really, really hard to predict what the opportunity will be over the next 90 days. So once upon a time, we tried to give guidance because we were trying to be helpful. I'm not sure if that proved to be the case or not, but that was the intent around what the growth opportunity is. I do believe that there's still opportunity for us to grow and grow at a healthy rate from here.

正是這些過渡時期，使得預測未來 90 天內的機會究竟如何變得非常非常困難。所以從前，我們試著提供指導，因為我們想幫助別人。我不確定結果是否如此，但這確實是我們最初設想的成長機會。我相信我們仍然有機會繼續發展壯大，並以健康的速度成長。

But as you pointed out, thank you for flagging. We are not going to compromise our underwriting and particularly rate integrity in order to juice the top line. And that sort of highlights what we've talked about on occasion in the past. That's because we have a sense of ownership, obligation and responsibility to the capital we manage.

但正如你所指出的，謝謝你的提醒。我們不會為了提高營業額而損害我們的承保標準，尤其是費率的完整性。這也恰恰印證了我們過去偶爾談到的一些內容。這是因為我們對我們管理的資本有所有權意識、義務意識和責任意識。

We get rewarded our colleagues throughout the organization get rewarded not this monetarily, but emotionally based on delivering good risk-adjusted returns coming out of the underwriting in part. As opposed to an MGU where you know what, it's just about how many widgets you can roll off the assembly line today.

我們和我們整個組織的同事都會得到獎勵，這種獎勵不是金錢上的，而是情感上的，基於他們為公司帶來良好的風險調整後收益，而這部分收益來自承保業務。與 MGU 不同，MGU 的重點在於今天你能從裝配線上生產多少小部件。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Rob Cox, Goldman Sachs.

羅布·考克斯，高盛。

Hey Rob, good afternoon.

嗨，羅布，下午好。

Good afternoon. For my first question, I just wanted to ask about the catastrophe losses in the insurance segment. It just looks like it was more in line with the average ratio -- cat loss ratio we've seen for the last couple of years, whereas some peers are reporting lower cats. I know you called out SCS. But is there any particular geography or large loss to call out there? Or is this just a result of growth in short tail lines recently?

午安.我的第一個問題，我想問保險領域的災害損失狀況。看起來這更符合過去幾年我們看到的平均貓咪損失率，而一些同業報告的貓咪損失率則較低。我知道你公開批評了SCS。但是否有需要特別指出的地理位置或重大損失？還是這只是近期短尾線成長的結果？

I would tell you that it's two things. One is a bit of frequency with very modest severity. And number two, as you pointed out -- look, we -- the property market, in particular, it's been a pretty good run. So we leaned into it because we like the risk-adjusted returns that were available. As a result of that, we got a little bit more exposure. But I would caution you not to read too deeply into it.

我會告訴你，這是兩件事。其中之一是發生頻率較高，但嚴重程度很輕微。第二點，正如你所指出的——你看，我們——特別是房地產市場，一直表現相當不錯。所以我們積極參與其中，因為我們喜歡當時可獲得的風險調整後效益。因此，我們獲得了更多曝光。但我建議你不要過度解讀。

Okay. Great. That makes sense. And just a follow-up on homeowners. It sounds like there's still some opportunity there. Can you talk about how Berkley One has performed compared to your expectations and where you're growing? Is it in states with more cat exposure, less cat exposure? Any context would help.

好的。偉大的。這很有道理。還有一點關於房主的後續問題。聽起來那裡還有一些機會。您能否談談 Berkley One 的表現是否符合您的預期，以及您在哪些方面取得了成長？是在貓接觸較多的州，還是在貓接觸較少的州？提供一些背景資訊會有幫助。

I think, Brian -- well, first off, I think Berkley One has proven to be a great success. It basically started -- not basically, it was started from catch with a small team of people that made it happen. And today, it is comfortably more than a $0.5 billion business and growing at a healthy pace.

布萊恩，我認為——首先，我認為伯克利一號計畫已經取得了巨大的成功。它基本上是從零開始的——不，應該說是從一小群人白手起家，最終成就了它。如今，該公司的市值已輕鬆超過 5 億美元，並且正以健康的步伐成長。

No, we are not leaning into California or anything akin to that. I would tell you, we have a certain group of states that we're in, and we are just going deeper this is not just an idea to try and go into every last nook and cranny. We're going where our colleagues believe the opportunity is and where we feel as though we have a value proposition that we can deliver consistently day in and day out. But no, the growth there isn't because California became the flavor of the day for us. We do not participate in the California market.

不，我們並沒有向加州靠攏，或任何類似的地方靠攏。我想告訴你，我們身處某些特定的州，我們正在深入研究，這不僅僅是一個想法，而是要深入每個角落。我們會前往同事們認為有機遇的地方，以及我們認為自己能夠日復一日持續提供價值主張的地方。但事實並非如此，加州的發展並不是因為我們一時興起就對它青睞有加。我們不參與加州市場。

Thanks, Rob.

謝謝你，羅伯。

Ryan Tunis, Cantor.

Ryan Tunis，坎托爾。

Hey, can you hear me?

嘿，你聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes, I can hear you. Yeah, good afternoon.

是的，我聽得到你說話。午安.

Hey, good afternoon. I guess just a question on the casualty side, just low single-digit growth in other liability. Less than I expect. I'm just curious, are you starting to see more competition in some of those lines? Or is there something else that's kind of causing that decel?

嘿，下午好。我只是想問意外傷害方面的問題，其他責任險的成長只有個位數。比我預期的少。我只是好奇，你是否開始注意到某些產品線的競爭加劇了？或者有其他原因導致了減速？

I think there's a couple of things. One, we have a view on rate. Is there a bit of competition? Yes, there's a bit of competition, but it's also how we're pivoting the portfolio at this moment in time.

我覺得有兩件事。第一，我們對利率有自己的看法。競爭有點激烈嗎？是的，確實存在一些競爭，但這也是我們目前調整投資組合的方式。

Got it. And then I guess I was a little bit surprised that Berkley One and A&H, could move the needle that much in short tail lines. Could you just give us some idea? But then again, I don't know how big those lines are. So could you give us some idea of how much of that short tail lines line item is non-commercial property, if that makes sense?

知道了。然後，我有點驚訝於 Berkley One 和 A&H 竟然能在短尾線中產生如此大的影響。您能給我們一些建議嗎？但是，我也不知道那些線有多粗。那麼，您能否大致說明一下，在這些短尾廣告項目中，非商業性資產佔比為何？

I don't have a specific number here. So if it's okay with you, Ryan, let me ask Rich or Karen to follow up with you. But I don't have it at my fingertips, and I don't want to -- but it's consequential, obviously, hence, the comment earlier.

我這裡沒有具體的數字。瑞恩，如果你不介意的話，我可以讓里奇或凱倫跟你聯絡一下。但我現在無法輕易獲得它，我也不想獲得它——但這顯然是有意義的，因此才有了先前的評論。

Understood, thanks.

明白了，謝謝。

Thanks for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

Brian Meredith, UBS.

Brian Meredith，瑞銀集團。

Hey Brian, good afternoon. Brian, you there?

嗨，布萊恩，下午好。布萊恩，你在嗎？

Brian, a reminder to kindly unmute yourself.

布萊恩，提醒一下，請你解除靜音。

Got, press the button. Alright, now you can hear me?

明白了，按下按鈕。好了，現在你聽得到我說話了嗎？

Yes, you are coming through. Thanks Brian.

是的，你做到了。謝謝你，布萊恩。

Awesome. So two questions. First one, big picture. So -- and maybe this is kind of for you as well as the Chairman. I recall Bill saying that one of his biggest regrets from the last hard market was starting to pull back too early. When there was still a healthy margin in the business. Is that a debate that's going on right now? Kind of how are you thinking about that?

驚人的。所以，我有兩個問題。首先，從宏觀角度來看。所以——或許這對您和主席來說也有點意義。我記得比爾說過，上次市場低迷時他最大的遺憾之一就是過早開始撤退。當時公司還有相當可觀的利潤空間。這是目前正在進行的爭論嗎？你是怎麼考慮這個問題的？

So Brian, it's funny. I recall that comment from the Chairman usually about 7:45 every morning, at least five days a week. So I'm going to yield the floor to him.

布萊恩，這真有趣。我記得主席通常每天早上 7:45 左右都會說這句話，至少每週五天都是如此。所以，我接下來要把發言權交給他。

So I think it's always -- if you look at your business and you say, our price is going to go down more there at the bottom, how much margin do you have? And where is the current accident you're going to come out because you've had a lot of years of substantial price increases. And as all of us know, -- this is a business where you don't know the ultimate margin for several years after you've written the business.

所以我覺得關鍵在於——如果你審視一下你的業務，然後說，我們的價格將會進一步下降，那麼你的利潤空間還有多少？那麼，你目前遇到的事故會是什麼情況呢？畢竟，多年來價格一直在大幅上漲。我們都知道，在這個行業裡，即使商業計畫制定好幾年後，你也無法預知最終的利潤率。

And in that case, it was [86%], give or take, we have much more margin than we were reporting. And we didn't realize it and we cut back too soon. So there are two pieces to this puzzle. Are you being pessimistic as to the margin you're presenting because you haven't appropriately reflected the price increases.

在這種情況下，利潤率大約是 86%，比我們之前公佈的要高得多。我們當時沒有意識到這一點，而且過早地削減了開支。所以，這個謎題包含兩個部分。你是因為沒有適當地反映價格上漲，所以才對你所呈現的利潤率過於悲觀？

And then the second question is where prices change and what's happening with the loss ratio. And that is the issues you faced, and it was different in 1986 than it is today. There's more litigation. There are more lawyers who are incentivized, bringing about litigation, that's a tougher decision.

第二個問題是價格在哪裡變化，以及損失率發生了什麼變化。這就是你們當時面臨的問題，而且與 1986 年的情況不同。訴訟案件更多了。有更多律師受到利益驅使而提起訴訟，這是一個更艱難的決定。

But I would say that you can still grow. There are still opportunities. You don't have to run away at this moment. But it will come at some point in time. We guess it's not here quite yet, but it is going to evolve to that point. It may be shorter duration because of all kinds of other things than last time because when those losses happen, it could happen all of a sudden.

但我認為你仍然有進步的空間。機會依然存在。你現在不必逃跑。但這終究會到來。我們認為它還沒有完全實現，但它終將發展到那個階段。由於各種其他原因，這次的持續時間可能會比上次短，因為損失發生時，可能會突然發生。

Interesting. Thank you.

有趣的。謝謝。

Brian, thanks for the question and highlighting the genetic flaw that runs through the family. Did you have a second question?

布萊恩，謝謝你的提問，也謝謝你指出了家族中存在的遺傳缺陷。您還有其他問題嗎？

Yes. My second question, Rob, I know you chat a little bit about the first quarter, and you didn't see much on --

是的。羅布，我的第二個問題是，我知道你稍微談到了第一季度，而且你似乎沒看到太多關於…--

Brian, are you there?

布萊恩，你在嗎？

Yes, I'm still here. Can you hear me?

是的，我還在。你聽得到我嗎？

Yes. Please go ahead.

是的。請繼續。

Okay, good. Question on tariffs. Are you seeing anything yet in your loss picks?

好的。關於關稅的問題。你從虧損預測中看出什麼端倪了嗎？

We are preparing for it, but we're not seeing anything particularly consequential yet. But we are certainly preparing for it in all the product lines, as you'd expect, that are more exposed, highlighting, obviously, property and APD.

我們正在為此做準備，但目前還沒有看到任何特別嚴重的後果。但正如你所預料的那樣，我們肯定會在所有產品線中為此做好準備，這些產品線更容易受到關注，顯然重點是房地產和APD。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Andrew Kligerman, TD Cowen.

Andrew Kligerman，TD Cowen。

Okay. Good evening. First question is around loss development. It looks like really net nothing. But wondering if you could talk about if you had some releases in one area, some adverse in another area? Any color on that you could share would be appreciated.

好的。晚安.第一個問題是關於損失發展的。看起來真的沒什麼淨收益。但我想問一下，如果您在一個地區取得了一些成果，而在另一個地區又出現了一些負面結果，您能否談談這種情況？如果您能分享一些相關信息，我們將不勝感激。

It was basically incremental between the two segments. To your point, it was almost at push. And as you can appreciate, there's a lot of moving pieces that's where it ultimately ended up coming out to. But as far as additional detail, I don't know if we publish it, it will be in our Q, I guess, Andrew. So we don't have it all in front of us right now.

這兩個階段之間基本上是逐步增加的。正如你所說，當時幾乎是迫不得已。正如你所看到的，這裡面有很多變數，最後才有了現在的結果。至於更多細節，我不知道我們是否會公佈，我想應該會在我們的問答環節中提到，安德魯。所以我們現在還沒有掌握全部資訊。

Anything off top of mind in casualty that stuck out? Was there adverse there or --

急診科里有什麼特別讓你印象深刻的事嗎？那裡有不利情況嗎？--

I don't have the numbers in front of me. I think we're but as I suggested earlier, we're paying close attention to the auto liability line and we're mindful of what that could mean for the umbrella line.

我手邊沒有具體數字。我認為我們正在密切關注汽車責任險，我們很清楚這可能對傘式責任險的影響。

Got it. And then just, Rob, just your commentary throughout this call. I'm just trying to put numbers around it a little bit. First quarter market seemed very different, and you rightly thought you could grow double digit this year. Last quarter, you were thinking maybe eight to 12. Should I be thinking we've kind of migrated more into the kind of mid-single-digit zone just given what you said about rates, et cetera?

知道了。然後，羅布，就請你在整個通話過程中進行點評。我只是想稍微量化一下。第一季的市場情況截然不同，你當時的想法是對的，認為今年可以達到兩位數的成長。上個季度，你估計可能是 8 到 12。鑑於你剛才提到的利率等等情況，我是否應該認為我們已經逐漸進入了個位數的中間水平區間？

It could very well be the case, Andrew. I think really what I was trying to articulate earlier is you got a lot of pieces of the broader marketplace that are in some kind of flux, and we are going to respond to that. So is it possible that next quarter, we could grow 4%? Yes. Is it possible next quarter, we could grow 10%? Yes, absolutely.

很有可能就是這樣，安德魯。我覺得我之前真正想表達的是，更廣泛的市場中有很多部分都處於某種變化之中，我們將對此做出反應。那麼，下個季度我們有可能實現 4% 的成長嗎？是的。下個季度我們有可能成長10%嗎？是的，絕對的。

So I can't speak with the level of confidence I'd like to and perhaps you would like me to just because of my comment earlier about big chunks of the marketplace. Being in notable flux -- improving some eroding.

所以，我無法像我希望的那樣充滿信心地發言，也許你希望我能做到，只是因為我之前提到了市場的大部分份額。處於顯著變化之中——有所改善，但也有部分惡化。

That's very fair. If I could just sneak a quick one in. When you talk about Berkeley's business being at the small end of the spectrum type accounts. Any way to size that? I know you even brought a team in from -- I think they were at Hamilton or Kinsale in the small end. Like any way to size the small end of the spectrum at W.R. Berkley in the --

這很公平。如果我能偷偷抽出一點時間就好了。當你談到柏克萊的業務屬於規模較小的客戶類型。有什麼辦法可以測量尺寸嗎？我知道你甚至從——我想他們來自漢密爾頓或金塞爾的小球場——引進了一支隊伍。就像在柏克萊大學用任何方法來衡量光譜中較小的一端一樣--

So obviously, some of the business we write -- one way to quantify it would be limits. As far as giving one, a sense of scale of accounts that you write, not the only one, but certainly one would be -- and if you look at the policies that we write, some of them like workers' comp, you have a statutory exposure, so you can't have a limit on it.

顯然，我們撰寫的一些商業文章——量化它的一種方法是限制。至於如何體現你所寫的保單的規模，雖然這並非唯一的例子，但肯定算一個——如果你看看我們撰寫的保單，其中一些，比如工傷賠償，你承擔著法定責任，所以你不能對此設限。

So if you take the stuff out of the pie, that has statutory limits like comp, and you look at what does that leave you with as far as the limits profile. I was told by a colleague earlier today, that between 85% and 90% approximately of our policies have a limit of $2.5 million or less. So I don't know, hopefully, that gives you some sense or direction.

所以，如果你把那些有法定限制的項目（例如補償金）從總額中剔除，看看剩下的限制情況會是什麼樣的。今天早些時候，一位同事告訴我，我們大約 85% 到 90% 的保單限額為 250 萬美元或更少。所以，我也不知道，但願這能給你一些啟發或方向。

Very helpful.

很有幫助。

So I don't know, hopefully, that gives you some sense or direction.

所以，我也不知道，但願這能給你一些啟發或方向。

Definitely. Thanks a lot.

確實。多謝。

Thank you. Andrew, just one other comment. Even though it's smaller account size, it tends to be very specialized in nature. So I would encourage you not to confuse size with commodity.

謝謝。安德魯，還有一點要補充。雖然帳戶規模較小，但其性質往往非常專業化。所以我建議你不要把尺寸和商品混淆。

Got it.

知道了。

Thanks for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

Mark Hughes, Truist.

馬克·休斯，Truist。

Hello Mark, good afternoon.

你好，馬克，下午好。

Hey Rob, how are you?

嘿，羅布，你好嗎？

Well, thanks. I hope you're well.

謝謝。希望你一切都好。

I am, thank you. A quick follow-up on the other liability. You said the -- you were pivoting the portfolio. I wonder if you could expand on that point? Is there something you're seeing in the loss development trends perhaps that makes you want to pivot around other liability?

是的，謝謝。關於另一項責任的快速後續說明。你說過－你正在調整投資組合。請問您能否就這一點詳細闡述？您在損失發展趨勢中是否觀察到某些跡象，讓您想要調整應對其他責任風險的策略？

There are countless different variables, and it could include just appetite based on the general exposure. It can be based on state and it certainly can be based on attachment point. So those would be a couple of examples or variables that can lead to the pivot.

影響因素數不勝數，其中可能包括基於整體接觸情況的食慾。它可以基於狀態，當然也可以基於附著點。以上列舉了一些可能導致轉折點的例子或變數。

And I think you talked about how commercial auto was -- had been volatile lately. When you see this pivot, that's something that probably persists depending on which variables are driving it. Is it something that --

我想你之前也提到過，最近汽車商用車市場波動很大。當你看到這種轉變時，它可能會持續下去，這取決於哪些變數在驅動它。這是什麼？--

Yes. I would not read too deeply into one quarter, would be my comment.

是的。我的建議是，不要對某一季的數據進行過度解讀。

Very good. Thank you.

非常好。謝謝。

Thanks for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

David Motemaden, Evercore ISI.

大衛·莫特馬登，Evercore ISI。

David, good afternoon.

大衛，下午好。

Good afternoon. Can you guys hear me?

午安.你們聽得到我說話嗎？

Yeah, we can. Thank you.

是的，我們可以。謝謝。

Okay. Great. Just had another follow-up just on the other liability line. You had mentioned there are some pockets of competition picking up there. I was wondering if you could elaborate. Is that more primary casualty? Is it more excess or umbrella E&S more large account admitted? Any order of color on that would be helpful.

好的。偉大的。剛剛又跟進了一次關於另一項責任險的後續事宜。你之前提到過，那邊的一些地區競爭正在加劇。我想請您詳細說明一下。那算是主要傷亡嗎？是超額費用還是傘式環境及社會責任保險（E&S）承保了更多大額客戶？如果能提供顏色排列順序就更好了。

There are certain exposures that we've examined and given how we see the legal environment, we've adjusted our appetite. And that comes through both in the exposure itself as well as, in some cases, how we think about attachment point and certainly how we think about jurisdiction of exposure.

我們已經研究了一些風險敞口，並根據我們對法律環境的看法，調整了我們的投資風險偏好。這一點既體現在暴露本身，也體現在某些情況下，體現在我們如何看待附著點，當然也體現在我們如何看待暴露的管轄權。

Got it. Okay. So that sounds like across both primary GL and umbrella sounds like sort of a book wide comment. Is that correct?

知道了。好的。所以這聽起來像是針對主GL和繖形GL的某種全書範圍的評論。是這樣嗎？

Correct. And those changes are well underway. And I don't think that you should assume that this is necessarily a perfect indicator for what to expect going forward because a lot of that change has been affected.

正確的。這些變革正在穩步推進。而且我認為你不應該認為這一定能完美地預示未來會發生什麼，因為很多變化都受到了影響。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe just on workers' comp, and you sort of mentioned it a little bit in your prepared remarks. But pretty good growth this quarter also this year to date as well.

知道了。好的。那很有幫助。然後，也許可以談談工傷賠償，你在事先準備好的發言稿中也稍微提到了這一點。但本季以及今年迄今的成長都相當不錯。

Could you remind me how much of the book is that you guys would say specialty or high hazard versus how much of it is Main Street just so I can sort of think about the moving pieces underneath that 9% growth this quarter.

能否提醒我一下，這本書中有多少是你們所說的特殊或高風險產品，又有多少是一般大眾產品？這樣我才能更能理解本季 9% 成長背後的各種因素。

So what I'd like to do, if you don't mind, David, is, a, I got to make sure that, that's detail that we provide. And to the extent it is, if you don't mind, Karen, I will follow up with your first thing tomorrow. I just -- I don't want to inadvertently color outside the lines.

所以，大衛，如果你不介意的話，我想做的是，a，我必須確保，這是我們提供的細節。如果情況屬實，凱倫，如果你不介意的話，我明天一早就跟你聯絡。我只是——我不想不小心塗出界。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Michael Zaremski, BMO.

Michael Zaremski，BMO。

Good afternoon, Mike.

下午好，麥克。

My first question is broad, focusing on the E&S market specifically. At least the data points we see is the deceleration of the increased competitiveness and the growth in the E&S market, you mentioned it to in your prepared remarks, is coming more so from the pricing side of the growth equation, whereas policies in force are continuing to grow at a double-digit pace.

我的第一個問題比較廣泛，主要針對環境和社會市場。至少我們看到的數據點是，競爭加劇的速度正在放緩，而您在準備好的發言稿中也提到，E&S 市場的成長更多來自價格因素，而現行政策仍在以兩位數的速度持續增長。

I'm just curious from your perspective, is that if to the extent pricing continues to moderate, should we would it be normal for the policy growth to also kind of start moving back into the primary market? Or are you seeing any trends there? Because it feels like the policy growth is really what's supporting ultimately a lot of the still healthy growth in D&S?

我只是好奇，從你的角度來看，如果價格繼續趨於溫和，那麼保單成長是否也應該開始回落到一級市場呢？或是你觀察到什麼趨勢了嗎？因為感覺政策成長才是真正支撐D&S目前依然健康成長的根本原因？

So a couple of things there. One, I think when we talk about E&S, one needs to draw the distinction between the property line and other, other being professional and certainly casualty. Long story short, a lot of the growth that we have seen over the past couple of years within E&S has been disproportionately driven by property.

所以，有兩件事需要說明。我認為，當我們談論 E&S 時，需要區分財產線和其他，其他指的是專業責任和意外事故。簡而言之，過去幾年我們在E&S領域看到的許多成長都是由房地產業務不成比例地推動的。

We've shared the observation in the past that when the property market gets hard, oftentimes, it tends to spike and then it comes back down at somewhat of a precipitous rate. As opposed to the liability market when it starts to harden, it tends to oftentimes be a bit more of a gradual sense, and it has more staying power.

我們過去曾觀察到，當房地產市場行情低迷時，往往會出現價格飆升，然後以相當快的速度回落。與負債市場開始收緊的情況相比，保險市場往往是一個漸進的過程，而且具有更強的持久性。

We, as an organization within the commercial lines, particularly specialty and more specifically, E&S. We are much more of a liability player than we are a property player. So did we cash a bit on the property wave? Yes. But that having been said, the lion's share of our E&S participation on a net basis happens to be the liability lines.

我們是一家在商業領域，特別是特種險領域，更具體地說是E&S領域的公司。我們更多的是一家負債型企業，而不是一家房地產企業。我們是否從房地產熱潮中賺了點錢？是的。但即便如此，我們 E&S 業務淨參與的大部分恰好是責任險。

So when I think about this market unfolding, and I think we've expressed this view in the past, I think property has barring the unforeseen event, and it would have to be very unforeseen. I think the bloom is off the roads. I think you're seeing the retro market starting to erode that will waterfall down into the property cat market. And certainly, you're going to see that had continued pressure on E&S property.

所以，當我思考這個市場的發展走向時（我認為我們過去也表達過這種觀點），我認為房地產市場會保持穩定，除非發生無法預料的事件，而這種事件必須是非常無法預料的。我認為花朵已經從道路上消失了。我認為你現在看到的是復古市場開始萎縮，而這種萎縮將會波及到二手房市場。當然，你會看到E&S房地產持續面臨壓力。

We, as an organization, will be impacted by that, but it will be far less than our peers because of our weighting towards the liability line. I think social inflation continues to be an issue. And you are going to see the opportunity within the E&S space become more and more weighted towards the liability lines, particularly casualty, I think professional is a bit of a mixed bag.

作為一家企業，我們也會受到影響，但由於我們在責任險方面的投入較少，因此受到的影響將遠小於我們的同行。我認為社會通膨仍然是一個問題。你會發現，環境與社會領域的機會將越來越傾向於責任險，尤其是意外險，而專業責任險的情況則比較複雜。

Okay. That's helpful. And my follow-up, Rob, is back to the earlier comments on the rating agency capital models and their sausage maker throwing out perhaps a 10-digit excess capital number. So in my words, maybe we'll make it $1 billion to buy that by our shareholders' equity. That's, whatever, 10%. Is that 10% a much higher level than historically? And do we care about the agency capital model to manage to different models.

好的。那很有幫助。羅布，我的後續問題是，回到先前關於評級機構資本模型的評論，以及他們可能會拋出一個十位數的超額資本數字。所以用我的話來說，或許我們可以拿出10億美元，透過股東權益來收購它。算了，大概10%吧。10% 這個數字遠高於歷史平均嗎？我們是否關心代理資本模型以管理不同的模型？

The answer is we care about everything, but we don't run the business for the rating agencies. We are conscious of those data points. The math you did, I'm not going to comment on whether that's right or wrong. I just was trying to articulate the point that we have a lot of cushion, and we will figure out how to deal with the surplus and what we believe is the most sensible and economic way to return excess to the owners that it belongs to.

答案是，我們關心所有事情，但我們經營業務不是為了迎合評級機構。我們注意到了這些數據點。你做的計算，我不會評論它是對是錯。我只是想表達我們有很多緩衝空間，我們會想辦法處理盈餘，以及我們認為最明智、最經濟的方式將多餘的資金返還給其所有者。

So I think if you look at our capital ratios over an extended period of time there is no moment in time that I recall that we, from a ratio perspective have had the amount of headroom that we have today.

所以我認為，如果你從較長一段時間來看我們的資本比率，我印像中，從比率的角度來看，我們從來沒有像今天這樣擁有如此大的空間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Andrew Andersen, Jefferies.

Andrew Andersen，傑富瑞集團。

Good afternoon. Just looking at the investment portfolio. I think I heard you say 4.6% on the domestic yield book, so maybe some pressure on the Argentina side. Maybe if you could just comment on the --

午安.只是看一下投資組合。我好像聽到你說國內殖利率是 4.6%，所以阿根廷方面可能會面臨一些壓力。或許您可以就此發表一下評論。--

Argentina has come off a little bit from the peak. If you throw Argentina and there it brings up to 4.8%. What we were really trying to articulate is the lion's share of the portfolio is no surprise domestic, highly rated bonds, call it strong AA-. And again, the duration sitting at the 2.9. And really, again, the highlight that we were trying to flag was if you compare 4.6% to 5%, there's opportunity for improvement from here.

阿根廷的競技狀態已經從巔峰時期下滑。如果把阿根廷也算進去，那就能達到 4.8%。我們真正想表達的是，投資組合的大部分是國內高評級債券，這並不令人意外，我們稱之為強勁的 AA- 級債券。再次強調，持續時間為 2.9。而且，我們真正想指出的是，如果將 4.6% 與 5% 進行比較，就會發現還有改進的空間。

Okay. Great. And then just looking at the expense ratio and then the corporate expense at the consolidated level, it seems like that numbers lower than what the year-to-date or the first half was. So I guess -- are we still pushing --

好的。偉大的。然後，僅從費用率和合併層面的公司費用來看，這些數字似乎低於年初至今或上半年的水平。所以我想──我們還要繼續推進嗎？--

The expense ratio is what?

費用比率是多少？

I just look at the expense ratio and then looking at the corporate expense, and it looks like that's a little bit lower relative to where first half. So I guess are you pushing some expenses into the segment? And where are we with that?

我看了看費用率，又看了看公司費用，看起來比上半年略低。所以我想你們是要把一些開支轉移到這個領域嗎？那麼，我們在這方面進展如何？

Rich is just not paying on the holding company anymore.

Rich 已經不再向控股公司支付款項了。

It's a couple of things. It's one, as you pointed out, we have had some of our start-up operating units move out of our corporate expenses, they've got scale and move into the underwriting expenses.

有兩件事。正如你所指出的，我們的一些新創營運部門已經從公司支出中轉移出來，它們發展到了一定規模，並轉移到了承保支出中。

And the second item is with regards to in the first half of the year. You might remember, we had also paid a special dividend and for accounting purposes, the vested but mandatorily deferred RSUs, the dividends on that wind up getting characterized as compensation expense. That's the driver.

第二項是關於今年上半年的情況。您可能還記得，我們​​也支付了一筆特別股息，出於會計目的，已歸屬但強制遞延的限制性股票單位（RSU）的股息最終被歸類為薪酬費用。那就是司機。

As far as the first piece goes, those businesses that Rich referred to that once they get to a certain maturity, we move them out they are moved out, but they are dilutive to the expense ratio. So hopefully, they will continue to scale, and that will get some relief there.

至於第一點，Rich 提到的那些業務，一旦發展到一定成熟階段，我們就把它們剝離出來，但它們會稀釋費用率。所以希望他們能夠繼續擴大規模，這樣就能緩解這方面的問題。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Josh Shanker, Bank of America.

喬許‧尚克爾，美國銀行。

Hi, Josh. Good evening

嗨，喬希。晚安

Good evening to you all. So as I'm listening to the 2Q conference call, commentaries from some brokers, from your peers, there was a commentary that the E&S property markets were very, very weak, and that contributed to the weakness.

各位晚上好。在聽第二季電話會議時，我聽到一些經紀人和同行評論說，東部和南部房地產市場非常非常疲軟，這加劇了疲軟的局面。

But that stay tuned for 3Q, which is a low property quarter, everything is rosy in the other lines of business, and so we won't see that same headwind. And then when you began your prepared remarks with the word self-sabotage, I got very, very concerned --

但請繼續關注第三季度，因為第三季度是房地產業務的淡季，其他業務領域的情況都很好，所以我們不會看到同樣的阻力。當你用「自我破壞」這個詞開始你的發言時，我感到非常非常擔憂。--

Okay. Why did it upset you?

好的。為什麼它會讓你感到難過？

I mean the self-sabotage sounds like an extreme thing. I mean we're all guilty of it from time to time, but hopefully in modest amounts. What is the takeaway, I guess, on pricing right now compared to three months ago? Is it along the same track? Or did you see a real step down, I guess, compared to three months ago.

我的意思是，自我破壞聽起來像是一種極端行為。我的意思是，我們偶爾都會犯這種錯誤，但希望只是輕微的。我想，與三個月前相比，目前的價格走勢有什麼變化？是同一條路嗎？或者說，你覺得和三個月前相比，情況確實有惡化？

Are we talking -- what part of the market are we talking about? I just want to make sure I'm following.

我們是在討論──我們指的是市場的哪個部分？我只是想確認一下我理解對了。

Book relative to the marketplace. When you read your book --

相對於市場而言的書籍。當你閱讀你的書時--

Our overall book, I think, was essentially flat. Obviously, there are a lot of moving pieces. But as far as the rate increase goes, I think we were at [7.6%] and we were, give or take, at a similar level last time. Did we get there exactly the same way? Absolutely not. But ultimately, I think that by and large, it's in a similar place. the parts of the market that at this moment in time are under the greatest pressure.

我認為，我們整本書的銷售量基本上是平平的。顯然，這裡面涉及很多環節。但就利率成長而言，我認為我們當時的利率是 7.6%，而且上次的利率水準也差不多。我們到達目的地的方式完全一樣嗎？絕對不是。但總的來說，我認為情況大致上是相似的。目前市場中承受最大壓力的部分也是如此。

Again, in our mind, you're going to see it with property cat and that likely will not become particularly visible until 1/1. But in the meantime, you certainly are seeing it in E&S property. And that -- while we are not a big player in that space, we're certainly an observer and a modest participant. And that's how it looks to us.

再說，我們認為，你會在 Property Cat 上看到它，這可能要到 1 月 1 日才會變得特別明顯。但同時，你肯定會在E&S房地產領域看到這種情況。而且——雖然我們在這個領域不是主要參與者，但我們當然是一個觀察者和一個謙遜的參與者。在我們看來就是這樣。

But again, why is our rate where it is? Because we are a modest participant in the part of the market that's under the greatest pressure right now. It doesn't mean we're insulated completely, as suggested earlier, but we have, again, a pretty broad offering. And we only have a toe in that pool.

但是，為什麼我們的利率會是現在這個水準呢？因為我們只是目前面臨最大壓力的市場領域中一個規模較小的參與者。這並不意味著我們完全與世隔絕，正如之前所暗示的那樣，但我們再次提供了相當廣泛的產品和服務。我們只是淺嚐輒止而已。

And there's different ways to compete for business. And in this environment, are you seeing carriers offer to increase commissions to distributors in order to get a larger share of their business.

競爭的方式有很多種。在這種環境下，您是否看到營運商為了獲得更大的業務份額而向分銷商提高佣金？

I think that Chapter 2. We're still in Chapter 1.

我認為是第二章。我們目前還在第一章。

Okay. That's it for me. Thank you.

好的。就這些了。謝謝。

That's the long book. Thanks, Josh.

那是一本很長的書。謝謝你，喬希。

Meyer Shields, Keefe Bruyette.

邁耶·希爾茲，基夫·布魯耶特。

All right, Meyer, how are you?

好的，邁耶，你好嗎？

I am well. How are you doing? I'm hoping I'm coming through.

我很好。你好嗎？我希望我能成功。

Thanks. I can hear you. Thank you.

謝謝。我能聽到你說話。謝謝。

Great. So a couple of quick questions. One, going back to the pivoting comment. You mentioned the legal environment. Has your overall view of casualty loss trends changed over the past three to six months?

偉大的。那麼，我先問幾個問題。第一，回到剛才那個關鍵的評論。你提到了法律環境。在過去三到六個月裡，您對意外損失趨勢的整體看法是否有所改變？

No.

不。

Okay. Perfect. And then I know the numbers are small, but I'm looking at most interest rates sort of declining in the quarter and an extending duration. And I'm wondering what is it that you're seeing that makes now the right time for that duration extension?

好的。完美的。我知道這些數字很小，但我看到大多數利率在本季度都會下降，而且期限會延長。我想知道您認為現在是時候延長合約期限了，原因是什麼？

Well, I think just to frame it, we went from 2.8 to 2.9 and there's a little bit of rounding in there. So I would encourage you not to read too deeply into it. Obviously, we try to be opportunistic at any moment in time as far as putting the money out that luxury of opportunism is not as comfortable as it was in the past.

嗯，我覺得為了方便理解，我們從 2.8 變成了 2.9，這裡面有一些四捨五入的餘地。所以我建議你不要過度解讀。顯然，我們總是試圖抓住一切機會投資，但這種投機取巧的奢侈感已經不如過去那麼舒適了。

As short-term rates are coming down. So that will put more pressure on the organization to put might to work. But again, going from 2.8 to 2.9, I would cost you not to read too deeply into it. Now I'd like to go back to the first question for a moment, if I may.

短期利率正在下降。這樣一來，就會給該組織帶來更大的壓力，迫使其動用武力。但是，從 2.8 到 2.9 的變化，我建議你不要過度解讀。現在，如果可以的話，我想稍微回到第一個問題上來。

So our general view around loss cost trend in the environment is consistent. But our view about particular niches within the marketplace, we are constantly examining and re-examining, and that can instruct our appetite at a more granular level. It's not all on or all off.

因此，我們對環境中的損失成本趨勢的整體看法是一致的。但是，對於市場中特定細分領域的看法，我們一直在不斷審視和重新審視，這可以從更細緻的層面上引導我們的需求。不是完全開啟，也不是完全關閉。

Right, understood. Thank you very much.

好的，明白了。非常感謝。

Sure, thanks for the questions.

當然，謝謝你的提問。

Bob Jian Huang, Morgan Stanley.

鮑伯·建·黃，摩根士丹利。

Hello, good evening. How are you guys?

您好，晚上好。你們好嗎？

Very well. Hope you're doing well too?

很好。希望你一切都好？

This is just more of a follow-up. Previously, you talked about that because the varying lines of business are decoupling from a pricing perspective, you can essentially turn on and turn off growth. Can you maybe help us to understand how quickly you can turn that growth, say, the 4% or the 10% you're referring to earlier.

這只是後續跟進。之前您提到過，由於不同的業務線在定價方面脫鉤，因此您基本上可以開啟和關閉成長。您能否幫助我們了解一下，您能以多快的速度實現這種成長，例如您之前提到的 4% 或 10%？

Just maybe help us understand the mechanics that you visit just simply just saying, okay, we're going to stop doing business here. I'm trying to understand how you're thinking about growth and managing the ability to go in and out of the market?

或許您可以幫我們理解您光顧的這家店的運作機制，就簡單地說，好吧，我們要停止在這裡做生意了。我想了解您是如何看待成長以及如何管理進出市場的能力的？

I think ultimately, it's really just about market conditions, and we are consistently in the marketplace at a rate level with terms and conditions that we find to be appropriate. The market may move away from us or when we were talking about how we were pivoting some of the other liability.

我認為歸根結底，這真的只是市場狀況的問題，我們始終以我們認為合適的價格水平和條款在市場上開展業務。市場可能會對我們不利，或者就像我們之前討論的那樣，我們正在調整其他一些負債。

It's not necessarily that we just washed our hands of it, but we have a view on rate. We have a view on attachment and we have a view on terms and conditions and perhaps the market doesn't find it palatable and perhaps the market can find someone else is willing to do it.

這並不是說我們對此事置之不理，而是我們對利率有自己的看法。我們對附件有自己的看法，對條款和條件也有自己的看法，但也許市場覺得這種看法不可接受，也許市場可以找到其他願意這樣做的人。

So again, it's not that we abandon a market is that our appetite and how we're willing to approach it can adjust based on the data and the information that we see and how we process that. So that's -- and our ability to do that, we can do it very quickly. You rely on our colleagues with the expertise and various niches to decide how and when to pivot.

所以，這並不是說我們會放棄某個市場，而是說我們對該市場的需求以及我們願意採取的態度會根據我們看到的數據和資訊以及我們如何處理這些數據和資訊而進行調整。所以，我們有能力做到這一點，而且我們可以非常迅速地做到。您需要依靠我們擁有專業知識和各個細分領域的同事來決定如何以及何時進行轉型。

Okay. That's very helpful. Very last one. In terms of the market competition, you kind of talked about a decent amount of businesses in the smaller market side of it. Now if we do go into a more challenging macroeconomic environment, are you perhaps concerned about small and medium enterprise tend to be more exposed to macroeconomic conditions. So consequently, that could potentially play into your core market? Like just curious how you think about that?

好的。那很有幫助。最後一個。就市場競爭而言，你剛才提到了規模較小的市場中有很多企業。如果宏觀經濟環境變得更加嚴峻，您是否擔心中小企業更容易受到宏觀經濟狀況的影響？所以，這可能會對你的核心市場產生潛在影響？我只是好奇你對此有何看法？

So the answer is no, while we're conscious of it and certainly the health and well-being of our clients is a priority for us. If you use COVID as a data point, actually, we were able to navigate through that, and we're pleased with how our clients fared and our ability to continue to support them.

所以答案是否定的，雖然我們意識到了這一點，而客戶的健康和福祉當然是我們的首要任務。如果以新冠疫情為例，我們實際上已經成功渡過了難關，我們對客戶的狀況以及我們繼續為他們提供支援的能力感到滿意。

Okay. Thank you. That's very helpful. Thank you very much.

好的。謝謝。那很有幫助。非常感謝。

Thank you for the question. Have a good evening.

謝謝你的提問。祝你晚上愉快。

Wes Carmichael, Autonomous Research.

Wes Carmichael，自主研究。

Good evening, Wes. Wes, you there?

晚上好，韋斯。韋斯，你在嗎？

Wes, reminder to kindly unmute yourself.

韋斯，提醒你一下，請你解除靜音。

Yeah, we can hear you. Thank you.

是的，我們能聽到你說話。謝謝。

Great. So just one question, but just coming back, Rob, to your comments around property and property cat reinsurance. You mentioned the routing of the apple or at least impending routing of the apple. I just wanted to get your view -- curious your view because it seems like there's a lot of rhetoric that property is still rate adequate, but do you think we're really there where things could start to turn at 1/1? Or is that going to take more time?

偉大的。羅布，我還有一個問題，回到你之前關於財產和財產巨災再保險的評論。你提到了蘋果的運輸路線，或至少即將進行的運輸路線規劃。我只是想聽聽你的看法——我很好奇你的看法，因為似乎有很多言論認為房產仍然能夠提供足夠的利率，但你認為我們真的到了情況可能在 1 月 1 日開始轉變的地步嗎？還是這需要更多時間？

I think it depends on what the feeding frenzy is like at 1/1. Everyone needs to assess how much margin they think is in the business. Obviously, rates went up dramatically. Attachment points shifted significantly, so on and so forth. And while whatever nine months ago, we saw a softening, and I think the expectation is given the performance, it's likely there will be further softening at 1/1 for this coming year.

我認為這取決於1/1時的餵食狂潮情況。每個人都需要評估一下自己認為這項業務有多少利潤空間。顯然，利率大幅上漲。附著點發生了顯著變化，等等。儘管九個月前我們看到了疲軟，我認為鑑於目前的表現，預計明年 1 月 1 日的市場將進一步疲軟。

We'll have to see how aggressive the market is. I we have a view as to how much margin is in the business and where -- and at what point we shift our posture from an offensive one to a defensive one. But that's just the reality of a cyclical business.

我們得看看市場反應有多激烈。我們對業務中有多少利潤空間以及利潤空間在哪裡有自己的看法——以及在什麼情況下我們將策略從進攻型策略轉變為防守型策略。但這就是周期性商業的現實。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Thank you for the question. Nicole, was there anyone else? Or have we covered it?

謝謝你的提問。妮可，還有其他人嗎？我們已經涵蓋了？

We've covered it. There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back to Mr. Rob Berkley for closing remarks.

我們已經報道了。目前沒有其他問題了。現在我將把電話轉回給羅伯·伯克利先生，請他作總結發言。

Okay. Nicole, thank you very much for your assistance and hosting. Thank you all to the participants for your interest in the organization. And hopefully, it's quite evident we had a very strong quarter. But equally, if not more importantly, the table is set for a good balance of the year, and in all likelihood a very strong 2026. So again, thank you for dialing in, and we look forward to speaking with you in about 90 days. Bye-bye.

好的。妮可，非常感謝你的幫助和熱情款待。感謝各位參與者對本組織的關注。希望這一點已經很明顯了，我們本季的業績非常強勁。但同樣重要，甚至更重要的是，今年已經為良好的平衡做好了準備，而且很有可能在 2026 年取得非常強勁的成績。再次感謝您的來電，我們期待在90天左右與您通話。再見。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。謝謝各位的出席。您現在可以斷開連線了。