淡水河谷 (VALE) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Vale's fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. This conference is being recorded, and the replay will be available on our website at vale.com. The presentation is also available for download in English and Portuguese from our website. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，早安。歡迎參加淡水河谷 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。本次會議正在錄製中，重播將在我們的網站 vale.com 上提供。您也可以從我們的網站下載英文和葡萄牙語版本的簡報。（操作員指令）

I would like to advise that forward-looking statements may be (technical difficulty) events or results encompassing those matters listed in the respective presentation. We caution you that forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties.

我想建議前瞻性陳述可能是涵蓋相應陳述中所列事項的（技術難度）事件或結果。我們提醒您，前瞻性陳述並不能保證未來的表現，並且涉及風險和不確定性。

To obtain information and factors that may lead to results different from those forecast by Vale, please consult the report Vale files with the US Securities and Exchange Commission, SEC, the Brazilian Comissão de Valores Mobiliários, CVM. And in particular, the factors discussed under forward-looking statements and risk factors in Vale's annual report on Form 20-F.

為取得可能導致與 Vale 預測結果不同的資訊和因素，請參閱 Vale 向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 和巴西證券交易委員會 (CVM) 提交的報告。特別是淡水河谷 20-F 表年度報告中前瞻性陳述和風險因素中討論的因素。

With us today are Mr. Gustavo Pimenta, CEO; Mr. Marcelo Bacci, Executive Vice President of Finance and Investor Relations; Mr. Rogério Nogueira, Executive Vice President, Commercial and Development; Mr. Carlos Medeiros, Executive Vice President of Operations; and Mr. Shaun Usmar, CEO of Vale Base Metals.

今天與我們在一起的有首席執行官 Gustavo Pimenta 先生；財務與投資者關係執行副總裁 Marcelo Bacci 先生；商務與發展執行副總裁 Rogério Nogueira 先生；營運執行副總裁 Carlos Medeiros 先生；以及淡水河谷基本金屬公司執行長肖恩·烏斯馬爾（Shaun Usmar）先生。

Now I will turn the conference over to Mr. Gustavo Pimenta. Sir, you may now begin.

現在我將會議交給古斯塔沃·皮門塔先生。先生，現在可以開始了。

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Vale's fourth quarter 2021 conference call. At Vale Day, we laid out our 2030 vision with a clear focus on evolving our portfolio of assets to supply our clients' needs with a highly competitive cost profile. We also presented our initiatives to advance on our cultural transformation while positioning Vale as a trusted partner.

大家好，歡迎參加淡水河谷2021年第四季電話會議。在淡水河谷日，我們闡述了我們的2030願景，明確專注於發展我們的資產組合，以極具競爭力的成本狀況滿足客戶的需求。我們也提出了推動文化轉型的舉措，同時將淡水河谷定位為值得信賴的合作夥伴。

I'm happy with the results we were able to achieve thus far and very optimistic about the future of Vale. We finished 2024 on a strong note. On safety, we lowered our injury frequency rate to [1.1] as a result of our continued focus to create an accident-free work environment. We have also achieved 57% of the upstream bans the characterization program and expect to have no dams at Level 3 by the end of 2025.

我對我們目前所取得的成果感到滿意，並對淡水河谷的未來感到非常樂觀。我們以強勁的成績結束了 2024 年。在安全性方面，由於我們持續致力於打造無事故工作環境，我們將受傷頻率降低至 [1.1]。我們還完成了 57% 的上游禁令特徵化計劃，預計到 2025 年底將不再有 3 級水壩。

We signed definitive agreements for the Mariana operation as well as for the rail concessions renewal. In our iron ore business, we delivered two of our three key projects. Vargem Grande started up in September ahead of schedule and on budget. And in December, we announced Capanema start-up, also ahead of schedule. Both projects add 30 million tons of low-cost production capacity.

我們簽署了馬裡亞納營運以及鐵路特許權續簽的最終協議。在鐵礦石業務中，我們完成了三個重點項目中的兩個。Vargem Grande 核電廠於 9 月提前開機，且符合預算。12 月，我們宣布卡帕內瑪號啟動，這也提前了計劃。兩個項目均新增3000萬噸低成本產能。

In base metals, we produce the first ore from the second deposit of the VBME project, an important milestone towards continued efficiency gains and fixed cost dilution in the nickel business. We have also made progress on strategic partnerships with the closing of our 15% acquisition of Minas-Rio as well as the initiation of construction of our concentration plant in Sohar, Oman, which is expected to come online in 2027.

在基本金屬方面，我們從 VBME 專案的第二個礦床中生產出第一批礦石，這是鎳業務持續提高效率和稀釋固定成本的重要里程碑。我們在戰略合作夥伴關係方面也取得了進展，完成了對 Minas-Rio 15% 的收購，並開始在阿曼蘇哈爾建設選礦廠，預計該廠將於 2027 年投產。

Last but not least, we delivered on all of our production and cost guidance for the year reflecting our continued focus on operational excellence. All these achievements demonstrate that we are on the right path to deliver on our 2030 vision.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，我們實現了全年的所有生產和成本預期，反映了我們對卓越營運的持續關注。所有這些成就表明，我們正在實現2030年願景的正確道路上。

Now looking into our production performance. Iron ore production reached 328 million tonnes, the highest level since 2018 and above our original guidance. In the fourth quarter of 2024, we proactively shifted our portfolio mix, reducing direct sales of high silica material while increasing the share of high-quality products from Carajás. This resulted in higher realized iron ore premiums, but more importantly, higher margins and returns on invested capital.

現在來看看我們的生產表現。鐵礦石產量達到 3.28 億噸，為 2018 年以來的最高水平，高於我們最初的預期。2024 年第四季度，我們主動調整了產品組合，減少高矽材料的直接銷售，同時增加Carajá s優質產品的份額。這導致鐵礦石實際溢價更高，但更重要的是，利潤率和投資資本回報率更高。

In base metals, we continue to make solid progress having achieved the highest copper production since 2020, driven by Salobo, which produced roughly 200 kilotons of copper in 2024. In nickel, a significant milestone was achieved with the VBME project completion. We have also announced the Thompson review as part of a process to optimize Vale-based metals asset base. We expect to conclude the review process in the second half of this year.

在基本金屬方面，我們繼續取得穩步進展，實現了自 2020 年以來最高的銅產量，這得益於 Salobo 的推動，該公司在 2024 年生產了約 20 萬噸銅。在鎳領域，VBME 專案的完成標誌著一個重要的里程碑。我們還宣布了湯普森審查，這是優化淡水河谷金屬資產基礎的一部分。我們預計在今年下半年完成審查程序。

We continue to be highly disciplined in our productivity efforts, having delivered all of our cost guidance across the different commodities in 2024. In iron ore, particularly, our C1 cash costs came in at the low end of the guidance range. at around $22 per ton. In the fourth quarter, our C1 reached $18.8 per ton, the lowest level since 2022. In copper, we had the best year in terms of all-in costs since 2020 on the back of Salobo's record production as well as higher byproduct prices, particularly gold.

我們將繼續嚴格遵守生產力工作，並在 2024 年實現所有不同商品的成本指引。特別是在鐵礦石方面，我們的 C1 現金成本處於指導範圍的低端。約為每噸22美元。第四季度，我們的C1達到了每噸18.8美元，這是2022年以來的最低水準。在銅方面，由於 Salobo 創紀錄的產量以及副產品價格（尤其是黃金）上漲，我們經歷了 2020 年以來總成本最好的一年。

Nickel costs are also trending downward, with further support expected as a result of the VBME ramp-up. We remain highly committed to continue improving our cost competitiveness across the business, and we are very confident on delivering our guidance again in 2025, positioning Vale at the very low end of the industry global cost curve.

鎳成本也呈下降趨勢，預計隨著 VBME 產量增加，鎳成本將獲得進一步支撐。我們依然高度致力於繼續提高整個業務的成本競爭力，並且我們非常有信心在 2025 年再次實現我們的目標，使淡水河谷處於行業全球成本曲線的最低端。

We are also laser-focused on optimizing our capital expenditures. As a result of that, we have reduced our CapEx guidance for 2025 to $5.9 billion, leveraging optimization initiatives in certain capital investments. In this context and given our strong confidence in a robust cash flow generation for 2025, our Board of Directors approved $2 billion in dividends and interest on capital resulting in an annualized 10% yield. The Board also approved the extension of our buyback program for up to 3% of our outstanding shares. Looking ahead, we will remain highly focused on our disciplined capital allocation approach, balancing CapEx optimization, accretive growth, and strong shareholder returns.

我們也高度重視優化我們的資本支出。因此，我們將 2025 年的資本支出預期下調至 59 億美元，並利用某些資本投資中的最佳化措施。在這種背景下，鑑於我們對 2025 年強勁現金流的強烈信心，我們的董事會批准了 20 億美元的股息和資本利息，年化收益率為 10%。董事會也批准將我們的回購計畫延長至最多 3% 的流通股。展望未來，我們將繼續高度關注我們的嚴謹的資本配置方法，以平衡資本支出優化、增值成長和強勁的股東回報。

Before passing on to Marcelo, I would like to talk about our announcement last week regarding the new Carajás. As you know, Carajás is one of the best provinces of critical minerals in the world, including for the highest grade iron ore. Under this new program, we are creating a dedicated multifunctional team with increased investments in exploration in order to accelerate the development of the regional endowment.

在轉交給馬塞洛之前，我想談談我們上週關於新款卡拉加 (Carajás) 的公告。眾所周知，卡拉加斯是世界上關鍵礦產資源最豐富的省份之一，其中蘊藏著最高品位的鐵礦石。根據這項新計劃，我們正在組建一支多功能專門團隊，加大勘探投資，以加速區域資源的開發。

We are confident this new approach will enhance substantially our ability to develop accretive projects to our shareholders, in line with our long-term strategy. We will be providing more color about the new Carajás initiative in the following quarters as the program evolves.

我們相信，這種新方法將大大增強我們為股東開發增值項目的能力，符合我們的長期策略。隨著計劃的進展，我們將在接下來的幾個季度中提供有關新卡拉加計劃的更多細節。

Now I would like to welcome Marcelo Bacci for his first conference call with Vale. I'll be back for closing remarks before the Q&A session. Please, Marcelo.

現在，我歡迎馬塞洛·巴奇 (Marcelo Bacci) 與淡水河谷進行首次電話會議。我將在問答環節之前回來作結束語。請吧，馬塞洛。

Thanks, Gustavo, and good morning, everyone. It's great to be here for my first quarterly conference call with Vale. Let's take a look at our Q4 financial performance. Our pro forma EBITDA was just over $4.1 billion in 4Q '24, 9% higher quarter-on-quarter.

謝謝，古斯塔沃，大家早安。很高興能夠參加淡水河谷的第一次季度電話會議。讓我們來看看我們第四季度的財務表現。2024 年第四季度，我們的預期 EBITDA 略高於 41 億美元，較上季成長 9%。

As you can see on the slide, there were two main factors that contributed to this performance. First, our portfolio optimization strategy allowed for an improvement in our realized all-in premiums of $2.9 per ton sequentially, with a positive impact of $190 million in our EBITDA. And second, our cost efficiency program continues to yield positive results with our unit cost declining across all of our commodities year-on-year. In the particular case of our C1, the positive impact on our EBITDA was $180 million quarter-on-quarter.

正如您在幻燈片上看到的，有兩個主要因素促成了這一表現。首先，我們的投資組合優化策略使我們實現的全溢價比上一季提高了 2.9 美元/噸，對我們的 EBITDA 產生了 1.9 億美元的正面影響。其次，我們的成本效率計劃持續取得正面成果，我們所有商品的單位成本逐年下降。就我們的 C1 具體而言，其對我們的 EBITDA 的正面影響是季增 1.8 億美元。

We think that cost competitiveness is a key element towards protecting our company from market cyclicality, and I'm very pleased with the results that we are achieving. This quarter, our iron ore C1 cash costs excluding third-party purchases came in at $18.8 per ton, almost 10% lower year-on-year. This is the lowest C1 cash cost since the first quarter of 2022. The improvement was primarily driven by our efficiency initiatives and a better production mix with higher volumes coming from the Northern system.

我們認為成本競爭力是保護公司免受市場週期影響的關鍵因素，我對我們所取得的成果感到非常滿意。本季度，我們的鐵礦石C1現金成本（不包括第三方採購）為每噸18.8美元，年減近10％。這是2022年第一季以來的最低C1現金成本。這項改善主要得益於我們的效率措施和更好的生產組合以及來自北方系統的更高產量。

Our all-in cost performance was solid with a reduction of over 5% year-on-year, reaching $49.5 per ton in the quarter. The improvement was driven by lower C1 costs as well as by our portfolio optimization strategy, which led to higher realized premiums, as I explained earlier. Our strong performance in Q4 gives us confidence that we are on the right track to continue to improve while delivering all of our guidances in 2025.

我們的整體成本表現穩健，年減超過 5%，本季達到每噸 49.5 美元。正如我之前所解釋的，這項改善是由較低的 C1 成本以及我們的投資組合優化策略推動的，這導致了更高的實際保費。我們第四季的強勁表現讓我們有信心，我們正走在繼續改進的正確軌道上，同時實現 2025 年的所有預期目標。

Looking at our energy transition metals business. We also saw an overall decrease in all-in costs. In copper, all-in costs were the lowest since Q4 2020, reaching about $1,100 per metric ton driven by higher byproduct revenues from Salobo, primarily composed of gold as well as by improved operational performance. In nickel, all-in costs totaled about $13,900 per metric ton, the lowest since 1Q '22, driven by higher byproduct revenues, especially from copper and PGMs.

看看我們的能源過渡金屬業務。我們也看到總成本總體下降。就銅而言，總成本為 2020 年第四季以來的最低水平，達到每公噸約 1,100 美元，這得益於 Salobo 副產品收入增加（主要由黃金組成）以及營運績效改善。在鎳方面，總成本總計約為每公噸 13,900 美元，為 22 年第一季以來的最低水平，這得益於副產品收入的增加，尤其是銅和鉑族金屬。

The Vale-based metals asset review led by Shaun is progressing remarkably well. We are optimizing operations and achieving cost improvements across all business lines. Our focus is on unlocking VBM's full asset potential.

由肖恩領導的淡水河谷金屬資產審查工作進展非常順利。我們正在優化所有業務線的營運並實現成本改進。我們的重點是釋放 VBM 的全部資產潛力。

Now moving on to cash generation. I will spend a bit more time on this slide to explain some movements in our free cash flow particularly in light of our expanded commitments related to Samarco and Brumadinho. First, our recurring free cash flow generation reached roughly $800 million in Q4, $300 million higher than in Q3. This increase was primarily driven by higher EBITDA and a positive impact from working capital, thanks to strong cash collections in Q4 from Q3 iron ore sales.

現在開始討論現金產生。我將花更多時間在這張投影片上解釋我們的自由現金流的一些變動，特別是考慮到我們對 Samarco 和 Brumadinho 擴大的承諾。首先，我們第四季的經常性自由現金流產生量達到約 8 億美元，比第三季高出 3 億美元。這一成長主要得益於 EBITDA 提高以及營運資本的正面影響，這要歸功於第四季第三季鐵礦石銷售帶來的強勁現金回籠。

Our recurring free cash flow was used to address one-off items, such as the advanced payment of $656 million for railway concession contracts. Renegotiating a concession contract allowed us to reduce contract risks and optimize our obligations with a small impact in our provision while securing concession extension until 2057.

我們的經常性自由現金流用於解決一次性項目，例如 6.56 億美元的鐵路特許合約預付款。重新談判特許權合約使我們能夠降低合約風險、優化我們的義務，對我們的規定影響很小，同時確保特許權延長至 2057 年。

I would like to highlight that the cash outflows related to the Samarco and Brumadinho commitments are already provisioned in our balance sheet and are part of our expanded net debt concept, which is our reference for capital allocation purposes, including dividends and buybacks. Having said that, those outflows should not be considered in the free cash flow to equity calculations. They should rather be treated as a type of debt amortization.

我想強調的是，與 Samarco 和 Brumadinho 承諾相關的現金流出已在我們的資產負債表中計入，並且是我們擴大的淨債務概念的一部分，這是我們進行資本配置目的的參考，包括股息和回購。話雖如此，這些流出不應被計入股權自由現金流計算中。它們應該被視為一種債務攤銷。

As you can see on the next slide, our expanded net debt remained stable at $16.5 billion in the quarter. Here, we present the main cash and noncash factors that impacted our expanded net debt sequentially. We are maintaining our $10 billion to $20 billion expanded net debt range, aiming to be at around the middle. This will be the reference for additional shareholder remuneration.

正如您在下一張投影片中看到的，本季我們的擴大淨債務保持穩定在 165 億美元。這裡我們列出了影響我們淨債務持續擴大的主要現金和非現金因素。我們將擴大後的淨債務範圍維持在 100 億至 200 億美元之間，目標是達到中間水準。這將作為額外股東報酬的參考。

As Gustavo mentioned earlier, Vale will pay $2 billion in shareholder remuneration in March, while our Board also approved a new buyback program of up to 120 million shares. This shows our continued focus on returning value to shareholders.

正如古斯塔沃先前所提到的，淡水河谷將在3月支付20億美元的股東報酬，同時我們的董事會也批准了一項新的最多1.2億股的回購計畫。這顯示我們持續注重向股東回報價值。

With that, I now pass the floor back to Gustavo.

說完這些，我現在將發言權交還給古斯塔沃。

Thanks, Marcelo. Before opening up for the Q&A session, I would like to reinforce the key takeaways from today's call. We have made substantial progress in addressing the key overhangs Vale was facing in recent years, well positioning us for the years to come. We continue to advance on our operational excellence agenda, consistently delivering on the production guidance while capturing sustainable efficiency gains.

謝謝，馬塞洛。在開始問答環節之前，我想重申一下今天電話會議的要點。我們在解決淡水河谷近年來面臨的關鍵問題上取得了實質進展，為我們未來幾年的發展做好了準備。我們持續推動卓越營運議程，始終如一地履行生產指導，同時實現可持續的效率提升。

Our unique endowment provide us with the flexibility and optionality to adapt our portfolio mix to any market scenario. Also, we are strategically building the right portfolio by accelerating accretive growth opportunities, such as with the new Carajás program, where we have a highly competitive value proposition. And finally, our disciplined approach towards capital allocation will continue to ensure health shareholder remuneration and value creation to all of our stakeholders.

我們獨特的捐贈為我們提供了靈活性和選擇性，可以使我們的投資組合適應任何市場情況。此外，我們正在透過加速增值成長機會來策略性地建構正確的投資組合，例如新的Carajá s計劃，我們擁有極具競爭力的價值主張。最後，我們對資本配置的嚴謹方法將繼續確保健康的股東報酬和為所有利害關係人創造價值。

Now let's start the Q&A session.

現在我們開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Daniel Sasson, Itaú BBA.

Daniel Sasson，義大利 BBA。

Thank you so much. Good morning, everyone. My first question is related to your mix, your sales mix. It's becoming clear and clear that the quality is increasing or increasing concentration. But it did increase your inventories by almost 6 million tonnes in the second half of last year, right, the difference between production and sales.

太感謝了。大家早安。我的第一個問題與您的產品組合、銷售組合有關。品質在提高或說濃度在增加，這一點正變得越來越清晰。但去年下半年確實增加了近600萬噸的庫存，對吧，這就是產銷量之間的差額。

If you could comment a little bit on how are your inventory levels if you're comfortable with them? And how that is associated with the company's commercial strategy, right? I mean, if maybe we could see Vale more and more focusing on value over volumes over the next years, if that's the north you're going to, that would be great.

如果您對您的庫存水準感到滿意的話，您可以稍微評論一下嗎？這與公司的商業策略有什麼關係？我的意思是，如果我們能看到淡水河谷在未來幾年越來越注重價值而不是產量，如果那是你要去的北方，那就太好了。

And my second question related to Gustavo's final remarks. You mentioned the ramp-ups of Vargem Grande and Capanema that you commissioned between September and December last year. But when we look at your production guidance for this year, relatively flat versus 2024, can we -- is it implicit that you are thinking about lower purchases from third parties, which could actually help your cost performance and you are delivered in China cost.

我的第二個問題與古斯塔沃的最後演講有關。您提到了去年 9 月至 12 月期間委託的 Vargem Grande 和 Capanema 的增壓工程。但是，當我們查看您今年的生產指導時，與 2024 年相比相對持平，這是否暗示您正在考慮減少從第三方的採購量，這實際上可以幫助您提高成本效益並降低在中國的交付成本。

I know that seasonality helped in the fourth quarter, but your delivery in China was even lower than your mid- to long-term guidance for the delivery in China costs, right? So how can we think about this cost evolution for 2025 onwards? Thank you so much guys.

我知道季節性因素在第四季度起到了一定作用，但您在中國的交付成本甚至低於您對中國交付成本的中長期指導，對嗎？那我們該如何看待2025年及以後的成本演變呢？非常感謝你們。

Hey Daniel, Gustavo here. So let me start with the second one, and then I'll pass to Rogério to talk about the sales mix. So the first thing is there is a ramp-up of those projects, right? Both Vargem Grande and Capanema will take some time to reach full capacity. I think that's the first one.

嘿丹尼爾，我是古斯塔沃。那麼讓我從第二個問題開始，然後我會讓羅傑裡奧來談談銷售組合。因此，首先要考慮的是這些項目的推進，對嗎？瓦格姆·格蘭德和卡帕內瑪都需要一段時間才能達到全部能力。我認為這是第一個。

And I think the way we are looking into that is that this will give us more flexibility to play along the value over volume strategy. As we mentioned last year, we could have done more volumes in Q4 than we actually did. So we are taking a similar approach in our projections for this year. So if anything, despite projecting something similar to last year, I think this year will probably have greater flexibility to play on the value over volume. So that's the way we are thinking about.

我認為，我們正在研究這種方式，這將使我們更靈活地實施「價值重於數量」的策略。正如我們去年提到的那樣，我們第四季的銷量本來可以比實際更多。因此，我們在今年的預測中也採取了類似的方法。因此，儘管預計今年的情況與去年類似，但我認為今年在價值而非數量方面可能會有更大的靈活性。這就是我們思考的方式。

So I'll have Rogerio talking about the sales mix.

因此，我會讓 Rogerio 來談談銷售組合。

Thank you, Daniel. I think you put it exactly right. When we discuss our product portfolio, our focus is on value. So we're not looking only at price realization, not only at volumes or costs, not only at inventories. It is about the optimization of cash flows.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。我認為你說得非常正確。當我們討論我們的產品組合時，我們的重點是價值。因此，我們不只關注價格實現，不只關注數量或成本，不只關注庫存。這是關於現金流的優化。

Long term, I think you know our direction is not going to change. We're focused on the decarbonization, the mega hubs and that's a difference story. Short term, we're looking into what the market is actually doing right now, what are the margins of our clients? What is the trend in terms of premiums? We're looking together with our operations colleagues on the supply chain, what are the mines possibilities, constraints and opportunities.

從長遠來看，我想你知道我們的方向不會改變。我們專注於脫碳和大型樞紐，這是一個與眾不同的故事。短期內，我們正在研究市場目前的實際情況，我們的客戶的利潤是多少？保費方面的趨勢如何？我們正在與供應鏈上的營運同事一起研究礦場的可能性、限制和機會。

And looking into the whole supply chain, we're trying to figure out what is the portfolio design that maximizes value. And that's exactly what's going on right now. The decision at this point in time was to beneficiate iron ore. We thought that moving our product portfolio more towards a mid-grade product would yield better results, and that's what we've done.

透過縱觀整個供應鏈，我們試圖找出能夠實現價值最大化的投資組合設計。這正是現在正在發生的情況。此時的決定是選礦石鐵礦石。我們認為將我們的產品組合更多地轉向中檔產品將會產生更好的結果，而我們也確實這樣做了。

Our expectation for the coming quarters is that this will be the direction that we will take. And that you should see some increase in inventories as a result of that. But again, keep in mind that our focus is to work on a flexible portfolio with the view of maximizing value.

我們對未來幾季的預期是，這將是我們採取的方向。因此，您應該會看到庫存增加。但請再次記住，我們的重點是打造靈活的投資組合，以實現價值最大化。

Carlos de Alba, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的卡洛斯·德阿爾巴。

Yeah, thank you very much. First question is, maybe if you could provide Shaun, this is for Shaun on Base Metals. Maybe a little bit more details of the progress to date that you have achieved? And what sort of results do you expect that we can see I guess on the cost side, but those have been like you mentioned already, more in terms of production, perhaps shipments throughout the year and the sequence of getting to the cost target for the year?

是的，非常感謝。第一個問題是，也許你可以提供 Shaun，這是給 Shaun 的基本金屬的資訊。您能否更詳細地介紹一下迄今為止所取得的進展？您預計在成本方面我們能看到什麼樣的結果，但就像您之前提到的那樣，更多的是在生產方面，也許是全年的出貨量以及達到年度成本目標的順序？

And the second question maybe for Gustavo is more on this still, I guess, situation with the municipalities in Brazil that were impacted by the Mariana accident. We understand that May 6 is the deadline for them to decide whether they joined that agreement that the company -- the comprehensive agreement that the company reached with the federal and state governments in the country or continue to pursue a plenty of lawsuit in the UK. So what -- even if it is a small chance or however you want to frame it, what is the company's strategy? Or what would the company do if the majority of the municipalities decided not to join the Brazilian agreement? Thank you.

而對古斯塔沃來說，第二個問題可能更多的是關於受馬裡亞納號事故影響的巴西各市鎮的情況。我們了解到，5 月 6 日是他們決定是否加入該公司與該國聯邦政府和州政府達成的全面協議或繼續在英國提起大量訴訟的最後期限。那又怎樣——即使這是一個很小的機會，或者無論你想如何建立它，公司的策略是什麼？或者，如果大多數城市決定不加入巴西協議，該公司會怎麼做？謝謝。

Carlos, thank you for the questions. It's Shaun Usmar from Vale Base Metals. So your question is on cost and competitiveness and progress to date. Firstly, I'd say, look, it's been 4.5 months. And I've been really impressed with the progress that the team has made over this period of time.

卡洛斯，感謝您的提問。他是淡水河谷基本金屬公司的肖恩·烏斯馬爾 (Shaun Usmar)。所以您的問題是關於成本、競爭力和迄今為止的進展。首先，我想說，看看，已經過了 4.5 個月。我對團隊在這段時間內所取得的進步印象深刻。

So to give you a sense of that, think about it, you've got a vertically integrated global footprint and in nickel and certainly in copper. Our priorities remain, as we've said on Vale Day to unlock the endowment, but the endowment needs to be enabled through lower cost, higher productivity and agility.

為了讓您了解這一點，請想一想，您已經擁有垂直整合的全球足跡，涉及鎳和銅領域。正如我們在淡水河谷日所說的那樣，我們的首要任務仍然是解鎖捐贈，但捐贈需要透過降低成本、提高生產力和靈活性來實現。

So in that period, you would have seen initiated very early on the restructuring. The team has done incredibly well focused on overhead. We're on track for about a third of our overhead reduction, which is a run rate of nearly USD200 million a year, which is in excess of what I would have anticipated. And it's not really just the cost component. It's what it does to enable this decentralized sort of owner-operator model across the business to help that greater productivity and focus on cost. And I'm really seeing that happening.

所以在那個時期，你會看到重組已經開始了。團隊在集中管理費用方面做得非常好。我們預計將實現約三分之一的管理費用削減，也就是每年近 2 億美元的營運率，這超出了我的預期。這實際上並不僅僅是成本因素。它的作用是實現整個企業內這種分散的業主-經營者模式，從而幫助提高生產力並專注於成本。我確實看到這樣的事情正在發生。

I think if you look in the last period, and this goes to your point on what to expect. If you remember, we just had a record year in Salobo, for example, even on things like shovel productivities improved about 5% last year. It's actually the best performance on a [shovel] in Brazil, for example. The team has done a great job on that. On truck availability is about a 10% increase on that. We've seen significantly more meters drilled as they look to unlock the endowment that's been spoken about repeatedly.

我認為，如果你回顧上一時期，你就明白了該期待什麼。如果你還記得的話，我們剛剛在薩洛博創下了紀錄，例如，甚至鏟車生產力在去年也提高了約 5％。例如，這實際上是在巴西用鏟子做出的最佳表現。團隊在這方面做得很好。卡車的可用性增加了約10%。我們看到，他們正在鑽探更多儀表，因為他們希望釋放人們反覆談論的儲量。

Now even Sossego as a more mature mine. You've seen a 28% improvement in utilization. And you're seeing that that's a focus on both hot seat changeovers at the at the end of shifts and they've been able to park four trucks at about 16% of their fleet. So this is sort of focus on cost and productivity, not just an overhead but at the operational level is key.

如今，索塞戈礦場已經是一個更成熟的礦場。您已經看到利用率提高了 28%。您會發現，他們的重點是輪班結束時的熱門座位轉換，並且他們能夠將四輛卡車停放在其車隊的約 16％ 處。因此，這有點關注成本和生產力，而不僅僅是管理費用，而且在營運層面也是關鍵。

And then as you think about deliveries and costs, let's say copper is very much on track already for what we've sort of put out there for guidance through the year. You should expect volumes and also the cost improvement to improve as we ramp up things like on Onça Puma with the second furnace in the second half of the year, we've announced, I think, on Vale Day as well, the trials where the nickel content and furnace alloy was increased from 25% to 35%. And they've done a really, really good job to be able to set ourselves up for the second furnace, also improve our products and improve costs, and we're very much on track with that.

然後當您考慮交付和成本時，假設銅的產量已經完全按照我們全年指導價格水平生產。隨著我們擴大 Onça Puma 等項目，以及今年下半年第二座熔爐的投入使用，您應該可以預期產量和成本的改善。他們做得非常非常好，為我們準備了第二座熔爐，同時也改進了我們的產品並降低了成本，我們正在順利地完成這些工作。

In Ontario, the operation there, you've -- we've seen a big focus on development rates to play catch-up with underinvestment and productivity needs of the past. And just to give you an example, we saw earlier last year, they were doing it about -- in 2023, in fact, about 64 meters a day on development. They're running now at 84 and cracking mine, for example, year-on-year has seen a 100% improvement in their development capability. So a very strong focus on that.

在安大略省，我們看到那裡的營運非常注重發展率，以彌補過去的投資不足和生產力需求。舉個例子，我們去年早些時候看到，他們正在做這件事——實際上在 2023 年，每天的開發速度約為 64 公尺。他們現在的運行速度為 84，以破解礦井為例，他們的開發能力比去年同期提高了 100％。因此，我們非常重視這一點。

And yeah, so it's across the board. I think particularly on nickel, you've seen as Bacci said, this significant reduction in cost, that has to continue. And the focus for the team, particularly in this market, is get the cost structure down, the overheads as well as the operating costs. We need to make sure that we're sustainable in this sort of price environment, and then can benefit when we see a recovery in the future. And the key focus for us is enabling that copper growth that we've spoken about. And I think the team has done a remarkable job so far.

是的，這是全面的。我認為特別是在鎳方面，正如巴奇所說，成本大幅降低，而且這種情況還必須持續下去。而團隊的重點，特別是在這個市場，是降低成本結構、管理費用、營運成本。我們需要確保在這種價格環境下能夠永續發展，然後在未來出現復甦時受益。我們的重點是實現我們所說的銅的成長。我認為該團隊迄今為止已經做出了卓越的工作。

So Carlos, let me just complement on your second question on Mariana. Look, our view is that the settlement in Brazil that we're able to successfully achieve. Last year is fair, comprehensive, and it is the best alternative and the best path for the reparation to evolve and to move forward. We continue to believe this is the best alternative for all constituents. It provides a fair expedited payment mechanism for all related parties.

那麼卡洛斯，讓我補充你關於瑪麗安娜的第二個問題。我們認為，我們能夠成功達成巴西的和解。去年的判決是公正的、全面的，是賠償問題得以演進和推進的最佳選擇和最佳道路。我們始終堅信，對所有選民來說，這都是最好的選擇。它為所有相關方提供了公平的快速支付機制。

We have seen very good traction in terms of delivering on the commitments that we've signed. So we continue to believe that this is going to be the ideal and the preferred path for everybody to fulfill all of the operations that were agreed among the parties.

我們在履行所簽署的承諾方面取得了非常好的進展。因此，我們仍然相信，這將是各方履行各方商定的所有行動的理想和首選途徑。

Caio Ribeiro, Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Caio Ribeiro。

Good morning. Okay. Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is on your recent decision to launch a strategic review for Thompson, which you mentioned could include a potential sale of the asset. So my question is, could you also contemplate other assets in Canada such as Voisey's Bay or Sudbury as candidates for divestment as well? And what specifically about Thompson leads you to consider a potential sale there.

早安.好的。早安.感謝您給我這個機會。所以我的第一個問題是關於您最近決定對湯普森進行戰略評估，您提到這可能包括出售該資產。所以我的問題是，您是否也考慮將加拿大的其他資產（例如 Voisey's Bay 或 Sudbury）作為撤資候選？湯普森的具體特點會讓您考慮在那裡進行銷售。

And then my second question is on the recent discussions in China to once again implement supply-side reforms for the steel industry. back in 2016, '17, that was a big theme for the industry, which led to a significant curtailment of excess steel capacity. It enhanced the profitability for steelmakers. This time around, how do you see the supply side reform playing out? And is that something that you see having a material impact for the iron ore business? Thank you.

我的第二個問題是關於最近中國討論再次實施鋼鐵業供給面改革。早在2016年、2017年，這便是鋼鐵業的一大主題，導致過剩鋼鐵產能大幅削減。這提高了鋼鐵製造商的獲利能力。這次供給面改革，您認為進展如何？您認為這會對鐵礦石業務產生重大影響嗎？謝謝。

Gustavo, you okay if I cover the first.

古斯塔沃，我來掩護第一個，你還好嗎？

Go ahead Shaun.

繼續吧，肖恩。

Yeah. Caio, thanks for the question. Look, I just answered in the last thing. The focus that we have is you'd appreciate, particular environment is making sure, firstly, that the way that the -- unlike the potential of the portfolio and endowment that we know is there is to firstly get the cost structures and productivities right. So that's happening as table stakes across the board.

是的。Caio，謝謝你的提問。你看，我剛剛在最後一件事回答了。我們的重點是，您會欣賞的，特定的環境是確保，首先，與我們所知的投資組合和捐贈的潛力不同，首先要確保成本結構和生產力正確。因此，這已成為全盤的賭注。

But the concurrent effort needs to be, what's the right portfolio for us to be able to optimize value for Vale shareholders. And as part of that, we are competing with capital across this portfolio and of course, we're competing with some very lucrative opportunities and iron ore and our priority remains in copper.

但我們需要同時努力的是，什麼樣的投資組合適合我們，才能為淡水河谷股東達到價值最大化。作為其中的一部分，我們正在與整個投資組合的資本競爭，當然，我們也在與一些非常有利可圖的機會和鐵礦石競爭，而我們的重點仍然是銅。

So specifically to Thompson, it's an operation that we've been in -- we've worked with for over 60 years, it's generated a lot of wealth, as we've sort of pointed out previously. But the question really is, it's a nonpolymetallic opportunity. It's something that is, at the moment, not generating the highest returns when we look at the opportunity set for nickel.

具體到湯普森，這是我們一直在做的一項業務——我們已經與它合作了 60 多年，它創造了大量財富，正如我們之前指出的那樣。但真正的問題是，這是一個非多金屬的機會。當我們考慮鎳的機會時，它目前並未產生最高的回報。

So we need to make sure that we don't make the mistake of trying to be all things to all people and spread our resources and our limited capital too widely, which is the reason that we've initiated this process on Thompson.

因此，我們需要確保我們不會犯這樣的錯誤：試圖滿足所有人的需求，並將我們的資源和有限的資本分散得太廣，這就是我們在湯普森啟動這一進程的原因。

I can say so far, we've had significant interest, the data room opened just yesterday. And as we've indicated, we expect to form a view in the second half. And we have a completely open mind as to what their path may entail in the future, including a potential sale. So this is very much a dispassionate view on how to optimize value.

我可以說，到目前為止，我們已經引起了極大的興趣，數據室昨天才剛開放。正如我們已經指出的那樣，我們預計下半年會形成觀點。我們對他們未來可能的發展方向（包括可能的出售）持完全開放的態度。因此，這只是關於如何優化價值的一個非常冷靜的觀點。

The other one worth noting is who is -- I think we're getting an award in two weeks' time at PDAC is that best discovery of its kind copper-gold discovery in, say, the last 20 years, and it's incredible. And the FEL 2 study has just been concluded. It's dealt with a number of the sort of prior technical risks, and that will be unveiled shortly. But it's a logical time as well for that to think about things like partnerships particularly if we've got partners who are able to do -- have great experience in [block caving], for example. So that's something that I think you can think about, again, with a view to how do we manage risk, focus on value and optimize the portfolio.

另一個值得注意的是誰——我想我們將在兩週後的 PDAC 上獲得一個獎項，這是過去 20 年中同類銅金發現中最好的發現，這真是令人難以置信。FEL 2 的研究剛結束。它處理了許多類型的先前技術風險，並將很快公佈。但現在也是考慮合作關係等事宜的合理時機，特別是如果我們擁有能夠做到的合作夥伴——例如在[區塊崩落法]方面擁有豐富的經驗。所以我認為您可以再次考慮這個問題，即我們如何管理風險、專注於價值和優化投資組合。

To your question of things like Voisey's Bay and others, our short-term focus, we're going to look at everything across the portfolio and particularly at different pricing scenarios. But the best thing we can do for our investors is really, firstly, to get the cost structures and productivities correct, to be able to then unveil their value potential. So that's the focus. We're doing these things concurrently.

對於您提出的有關 Voisey's Bay 等公司的問題，我們的短期重點是，我們將研究整個投資組合中的所有項目，特別是不同的定價情境。但我們能為投資者做的最好的事情實際上是，首先，正確了解成本結構和生產力，然後才能發揮其價值潛力。這就是重點。我們正在同時做這些事情。

Okay. Caio, on the supply side reform, I think as you know, today, the industry is operating at overcapacity with less furnace utilization at about 85% and margins are very low, for rebar producers for HRC producers. Yes, there are two events going on simultaneously for capacity rationalization. The first one that people don't pay much attention to is a consolidation. There is an ongoing consolidation in the Chinese industry.

好的。Caio，關於供給面改革，我想如你所知，目前行業產能過剩，鋼筋生產商和熱軋捲生產商的爐子利用率較低，僅為 85％ 左右，利潤率非常低。是的，為了實現產能合理化，有兩場活動同時進行。第一個人們不太關心的是合併。中國產業正在不斷整合。

And the second one, as you just talked about, is this potential supply side reform 2.0, which I think we don't know exactly whether this will come or not. As you may recall, the first supply side reform was about 150 million tonnes of induction capacity that was an easier one to do because there was very old capacity, very polluting capacity, and back then, it had a significant impact. And this impact is actually referred -- is actually seen in premiums more than in iron ore prices.

第二個，正如您剛才談到的，是潛在的供給面改革2.0，我認為我們不知道它是否會出現。大家可能還記得，第一次供給面改革是去產能1.5億噸，這個改革比較容易做，因為當時有些產能非常老舊，污染非常嚴重，影響很大。這種影響實際上更多地體現在溢價上，而不是鐵礦石價格上。

Look, I think this event will happen. The Rush capacity rationalization will happen being it through consolidation or the supply side reform 2.0. Question is timing.

看，我認為這個事件會發生。Rush 產能合理化將透過整合或供給側改革 2.0 來實現。問題在於時機。

Leonardo Correa, BTG Pactual.

萊昂納多·科雷亞，BTG Pactual。

Hello, sorry. Can you hear me now?

你好，抱歉。現在你能聽到我的聲音嗎？

Yes, we can.

是的，我們可以。

Yes. So a couple of questions on my side. Yes. So the first one, I think myself, we talked a lot about the free cash flows and how we do the free cash flow breakdown. You talked about the net debt and expanded net debt target, which remains between $10 billion and $20 billion, with a goal of keeping it at the middle, which means something around $15 billion. So you're slightly above that level at $16 billion now and expanded net debt, right?

是的。我有幾個問題。是的。因此，第一個問題，我認為我們討論了很多有關自由現金流以及如何進行自由現金流細分的問題。您談到了淨債務和擴大的淨債務目標，該目標仍保持在 100 億美元至 200 億美元之間，目標是將其保持在中間水平，也就是 150 億美元左右。那麼現在您的債務規模略高於該水平，為 160 億美元，淨債務還在擴大，對嗎？

I think one of the key positives of the quarter was clearly the cash returns, right? I think you -- the company managed to positively surprise which was quite welcomed, announcing $2 billion in cash returns with, let's say, with the $500 million extraordinary dividend.

我認為本季的一個主要積極因素顯然是現金回報，對嗎？我認為公司成功地帶來了驚喜，受到了熱烈歡迎，宣布了 20 億美元的現金回報，其中包括 5 億美元的特別股息。

So my first question is, I mean, is this something that you view more as a, let's say, a one-off which has been, let's say, more a function of the reduction in CapEx and, let's say, the stronger annual price level that we've been seeing in the first semester. So how should we think of extraordinary dividends going forward is my first question?

所以我的第一個問題是，我的意思是，您是否認為這更像是一次性的事情，它更多的是資本支出減少的結果，以及我們在第一學期看到的更強勁的年度價格水平。那麼，我的第一個問題是，我們該如何看待未來的特別股利？

My second question is, and I understand that this is obviously sensitive and there's nothing confirmed but the press has been talking a lot about M&A at Vale and specifically a transaction of an asset called [Bameen Sawich], which we've been following for many years, right? It seems Vale has been doing a homework. And of course, this is all public information.

我的第二個問題是，我知道這顯然很敏感，而且沒有任何消息得到證實，但媒體一直在談論淡水河谷的併購事件，特別是一項名為 [Bameen Sawich] 的資產交易，我們已經關注很多年了，對嗎？看來 Vale 一直在做功課。當然，這些都是公開資訊。

So Gustavo, I just wanted to hear from you, I mean, exactly what the angle is where are the opportunities what's the strategic rationale? I mean, is this something that Vale is considering. So if you have any additional color on this transaction, which I've been widely publicly talked about in the press, I think it will be very helpful. Thank you very much, guys. Those are the questions.

所以古斯塔沃，我只是想聽聽你的意見，我的意思是，角度到底是什麼，機會在哪裡，戰略原理是什麼？我的意思是，這是淡水河谷正在考慮的事情嗎？因此，如果您對這筆交易有任何進一步的詳細資訊（我已經在媒體上廣泛公開談論過這筆交易），我認為這將會非常有幫助。非常感謝大家。這些就是問題。

All right. This is Marcelo speaking. Thank you for your question. We continue to have the same policy when it comes to cash returns to shareholders and looking at the expanded net debt concept. We have this target between $10 billion and $20 billion aiming at the center of it, which is $15 billion We are now at $16.5 billion. But when we project this to the future, we see that even with the additional dividend, we are going to be inside that level given the fact that we have, first, a reduction in CapEx, which is very safe for this year. We are very -- we can make sure that for this year, $5.9 billion is a very reasonable number.

好的。我是馬塞洛。感謝您的提問。在向股東提供現金回報和擴大淨債務概念方面，我們繼續推行相同的政策。我們的目標是在 100 億到 200 億美元之間，中間值是 150 億美元，現在我們的目標金額是 165 億美元。但當我們將其投射到未來時，我們發現即使有額外的股息，我們仍將處於這一水平，因為首先，我們的資本支出減少了，這對於今年來說是非常安全的。我們非常——我們可以確保今年的 59 億美元是一個非常合理的數字。

And we are still looking at how this is going to play in the coming years. But for this year, we have a very high level of certainty related to that. And also, we started the year with a higher cash flow generation than we expected. So we are confident that even with the payment of dividend that we just announced, we will be around the $15 billion and we are not changing the target for the time being.

我們仍在觀察未來幾年將會如何發展。但就今年而言，我們對此有非常高的確定性。而且，我們今年年初的現金流創造量高於我們的預期。因此我們有信心，即使加上我們剛剛宣布的股息，我們的股息仍將保持在 150 億美元左右，而且我們暫時不會改變這一目標。

Leo, So on your second question, look, given our relevance in the country, it's almost our obligation to look at every single opportunity that emerges, right? And always assess those opportunities vis-a-vis our strategic direction that we've laid out at Vale Day, for example, recently in terms of growing the share of high-quality products and so on.

利奧，關於你的第二個問題，鑑於我們與國家的相關性，我們幾乎有義務去關注出現的每一個機會，對嗎？並且始終根據我們在淡水河谷日制定的策略方向來評估這些機會，例如最近在增加高品質產品份額方面。

So we look at those opportunities along those lines. But rest assured that any investment will only be done if they make strategic but also financial sense. And if they deliver on all of the thresholds that we have internally in terms of returns, in terms of risks that we foresee. So we are always evaluating my answer to you there isn't any commitment on any particular project that we haven't yet announced. And we'll be looking at those -- under those lens. If they make sense, you'll bring it up. If they don't, we will not bring it up.

因此，我們從這些角度來看這些機會。但請放心，任何投資都只有具備戰略意義和財務意義才會進行。如果他們能夠達到我們內部設定的所有門檻，包括回報和我們預見的風險。因此，我們始終在評估我對您的回答，我們還沒有宣布任何特定項目的承諾。我們將透過這些鏡頭來觀察這些。如果它們有道理，你就會提出來。如果他們不這樣做，我們就不會提起這件事。

Rafael Barcellos, Bradesco BBI.

拉斐爾·巴塞洛斯（Rafael Barcellos），Bradesco BBI。

Good morning and thanks for taking my questions and congratulations for the results. My first question is to Gustavo. Gustavo is great to see you and the overall senior management so confident in the company's operational performance, which, of course, is reinforced by the extraordinary dividend announcement, right?

早安，感謝您回答我的問題，我對所取得的成果表示祝賀。我的第一個問題是問古斯塔沃的。古斯塔沃很高興看到您和整個高階管理層對公司的營運表現如此有信心，當然，特別股息公告也強化了這種信心，對嗎？

So I just wanted to better understand how you are seeing the overall company evolution. I mean, if you could split between cost performance or commercial strategy and institutional relationship, it would be very interesting to understand how you're seeing the overall company's evolution in these main areas.

所以我只是想更了解您如何看待整個公司的發展。我的意思是，如果你能夠區分成本績效或商業策略與機構關係，那麼了解你如何看待整個公司在這些主要領域的發展將會非常有趣。

And then my second question is to Rogério. Rogério, you mentioned that your iron ore inventories should increase, right? So I'd like to better understand what is behind this statement? I mean -- and maybe if you could give us more color on your overall iron ore inventory strategy. It would be very helpful. Thank you.

我的第二個問題是問羅傑裡奧的。羅傑裡奧，你提到你們的鐵礦石庫存應該會增加，對嗎？所以我想更能理解這句話背後的含義？我的意思是——也許您可以向我們詳細介紹您的整體鐵礦石庫存策略。這將會非常有幫助。謝謝。

Let me take the first one. So I said in my prep remarks, I'm highly optimistic about the future of the company. I mean we were laser-focused in the initial four months to clear what we thought were key overhangs, so we were able to address all of them.

讓我選第一個。因此我在準備發言中說過，我對公司的未來非常樂觀。我的意思是，我們在最初的四個月裡全神貫注於清除我們認為的關鍵懸而未決的問題，因此我們能夠解決所有問題。

I think operationally, we've never been in the position that we are currently and kudos to Carlos Medeiros and his teams. They've been doing a great work over the years to bring our operational excellence back when you look at all -- and we've said that before, when you look at all the leading indicators that we track, the company's performing substantially better. It is probably the best time in the last five years in terms of operational performance.

我認為從營運角度來看，我們從未處於目前的境地，卡洛斯·梅德羅斯和他的團隊值得稱讚。多年來，他們一直在努力讓我們的營運恢復卓越，我們之前就說過，當你看到我們追蹤的所有領先指標時，就會發現公司的表現明顯更好。從營運績效來看，這可能是近五年來最好的時期。

And I think we are able to give a greater priority to cost and capital allocation management within the company recently, which I think combining with the operation of excellence should allow us to deliver very strong operation and financial performance, which then resulted in some of the recent decisions that we announced like yesterday, right?

而且我認為我們最近能夠更加重視公司內部的成本和資本配置管理，我認為結合卓越運營，我們應該能夠實現非常強勁的運營和財務業績，這才導致了我們昨天宣布的一些決定，對吧？

So this is I think this is making me and my team extremely confident on the future that we've laid out at Vale Day and our ability to deliver on that future in terms of the superior portfolio of assets, continue to grow both iron ore, the high-quality share of iron ore, but also copper as well as continue to advance on the other elements of our strategy. So that's the way we see now. A lot of work to do, but I think we are in a great position today.

所以，我認為這讓我和我的團隊對我們在淡水河谷日規劃的未來非常有信心，我們有能力透過優質的資產組合實現這一未來，繼續增加鐵礦石、優質鐵礦石的份額，還有銅，並繼續推進我們策略的其他要素。這就是我們現在看到的情況。還有很多工作要做，但我認為我們今天處於良好的狀態。

Okay, Rafael. Thank you. On the second question, just again, just to reiterate that our strategy is about cash flow maximization and flexibility. Also, before I answer your question directly, I think important to say that we have a sophisticated supply chain. We have many mines. We have iron ores, which are amenable to beneficiation.

好的，拉斐爾。謝謝。關於第二個問題，我再次重申，我們的策略是關於現金流最大化和靈活性。此外，在我直接回答你的問題之前，我認為有必要先說我們擁有完善的供應鏈。我們有很多礦山。我們有鐵礦石，可供選礦。

We have a concentration in Brazil. Concentration outside Brazil, we have a blending center, and that provides us with the opportunity to optimize value, to optimize or maximize cash flows. I think what I was referring to is that if and as we increase concentration outside Brazil, primarily, so concentration in China, we have a longer cycle time between production and sales. It is different from selling lower grade ore or outside, just as soon as it departs Brazil, okay? We don't [sell it at sea], but we need to have maturing -- material in China.

我們的重點在巴西。我們在巴西以外的地區設有一個混合中心，這為我們提供了優化價值、優化或最大化現金流的機會。我想我指的是，如果我們增加巴西以外的集中度，主要是中國集中度，那麼我們的生產和銷售之間的周期就會更長。這與離開巴西後就向外銷售低品位礦石不同，好嗎？我們不會（在海上銷售），但我們需要在中國擁有成熟的材料。

Look, however, this inventory increase, it is associated with the growth of volumes beneficiated. Once we've reached a steady state, that stops. So it is not as if we're continuing to grow inventory indefinitely. I think you also should think about the flexibility that we're talking about. At some point in time, we might reverse as a strategy if it is not value maximizing and then inventories might even decrease, so it is flexibility. That's what we're talking about.

然而，庫存的增加是與選礦量的成長相關的。一旦我們達到穩定狀態，這種情況就會停止。因此，我們並不會無限期地增加庫存。我認為您還應該考慮我們正在談論的靈活性。在某個時間點，如果它不是價值最大化，我們可能會逆轉策略，那麼庫存甚至可能會減少，所以它具有靈活性。這就是我們正在談論的。

And it is not about inventory or price realization of volumes alone. It is about cash flow maximization. And you might see inventories increase at times, you might see inventories decrease at times. But particularly this quarter is about the increased volumes in concentration outside Brazil to have a longer cycle time.

這不僅與庫存或數量的價格實現有關。這是關於現金流最大化。有時您可能會看到庫存增加，有時您可能會看到庫存減少。但本季的重點是巴西以外地區的產量增加，以延長週期。

Rafael, maybe just to complement on Rogerio's note, you should then see a stronger sales in Q1. I think that's one of the things you should expect us to post as a result of this change in strategy in Q4 last year.

拉斐爾，也許只是為了補充羅傑裡奧的說法，你應該會看到第一季的銷售更加強勁。我認為這是您應該期待我們發布的內容之一，因為去年第四季度我們改變了策略。

Marcio Farid, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的馬西奧法里德 (Marcio Farid)。

A couple of follow-ups on my side here. Gustavo, first one for you, please. I think since you took over as CEO, we've been talking about the importance of improving the institutional relationship between Vale, the Brazilian government and other stakeholders as well.

這是我這邊的一些後續事宜。古斯塔沃，第一個請你發言。我想，自從您接任執行長以來，我們一直在談論改善淡水河谷、巴西政府和其他利害關係人之間的機構關係的重要性。

Six months into the job, if you can update us on how you see the current relationship how much improvement has shown so far and what you expect going forward as well, especially in the context of the headlines of around [Baneen] for instance, around potential change in the Board members in the next few weeks or next couple of months, sorry. That will be great, please.

任職六個月後，如果您可以向我們介紹一下您如何看待當前的關係，到目前為止取得了多大的改善，以及您對未來的期望，尤其是在圍繞[Baneen]的頭條新聞的背景下，例如圍繞未來幾週或接下來幾個月董事會成員可能發生的變化，抱歉。那太好了，拜託。

And secondly, maybe to Bacci. Bacci, I mean, I think there's a lot of confidence and a lot of optimism on this call, and I think for the right reasons as well. I think your question is new buyback program announced, I think the company has mentioned before that it could be a year where cash return could be a little bit more conservative just because of how relevant the cash disbursements related to Mariana and Brumadinho are going to be potentially this year. I understand we would not include that on the free cash flow to equity.

其次，也許是對 Bacci 來說。巴奇，我的意思是，我認為大家對這通通話充滿信心，充滿樂觀，而且我認為理由充分。我認為您的問題是宣布新的回購計劃，我認為該公司之前曾提到過，今年的現金回報可能會更加保守一些，因為今年與 Mariana 和 Brumadinho 相關的現金支出可能會非常重要。我知道我們不會將其納入股權自由現金流。

But I mean, how should we think about buyback going into 2025, stronger free cash flow generation potentially with higher iron ore prices, but also you see elevated macro certainties, a lot of disbursement. And how do you balance that cash disbursement and shareholder returns would be great, please. Thank you.

但我的意思是，我們應該如何看待2025年的回購，隨著鐵礦石價格的上漲，可能產生更強勁的自由現金流，但同時你也會看到宏觀確定性的提高，大量的支出。請問如何平衡現金支出和股東回報呢？謝謝。

So Marcio, on your first question, look, this is something we've been spending a good amount of time on. I've said that before, I think there is a lot of opportunities and convergence in terms of what is good for Brazil and for the state and what is good for Vale. Vale can be an important investor for critical minerals. As we announced last week, for example, the new Carajás. It's good for Brazil. It generates employment, income, but also allows the company to continue to grow, and deliver on the long-term strategy for us.

那麼馬西奧，關於你的第一個問題，看，這是我們花了大量時間的事情。我之前就說過，我認為，就對巴西、對國家以及對淡水河谷有利而言，存在著許多機會和趨同點。淡水河谷可以成為關鍵礦產的重要投資者。例如，正如我們上週宣布的新款Carajá這對巴西來說是好事。它不僅創造就業機會和收入，還能使公司繼續發展並實現我們的長期策略。

So I'm finding a lot of support for those conversations and which I think it's showing up in a more our ability to move some of those agendas that are important for us, and you've seen that recently. So I'm optimistic about that, and I'm seeing, again, an opportunity for us to continue to converge and do investments that makes sense for the company, but also makes sense for the environment that we are invested in.

因此，我發現這些對話得到了很多支持，我認為這更多地體現在我們推動一些對我們來說很重要的議程的能力上，你們最近已經看到了這一點。所以我對此感到樂觀，而且我再次看到了我們繼續融合併進行投資的機會，這些投資不僅對公司有意義，而且對我們所投資的環境也有意義。

So you should expect us to continue to be highly focused on what makes sense for the company. but also understanding that many of those investments also makes sense for the country.

所以你應該期待我們繼續高度關注對公司有意義的事情。但同時也要明白其中許多投資對國家來說也是有意義的。

Marcio, on your second question, I think it's important to emphasize that our target of expanded net debt around $15 billion will be the most important reference when it comes to deciding whether or not we're going to be operating on the buyback program.

馬西奧，關於你的第二個問題，我認為有必要強調的是，我們將淨債務擴大至 150 億美元左右的目標將是決定我們是否要執行回購計畫的最重要參考。

We are -- the idea and the announcement we made was to make sure that we have a program open that we will operate on that program, depending on what happens with our cash flow generation. And we will be very closely monitoring that. And we -- for sure, if the opportunities are there, we will start operating on the buyback program, but we are not going to be, for obvious reasons, very clear about the strategy of the buybacks.

我們的想法和聲明是確保我們有一個開放的計劃，我們將根據現金流的產生來運作該計劃。我們將密切關注此事。當然，如果有機會，我們將開始實施回購計劃，但出於顯而易見的原因，我們不會非常清楚回購策略。

Myles Allsop, UBS.

瑞銀的邁爾斯·阿爾索普（Myles Allsop）

Great, thank you. Just a couple of questions. Maybe just on that buyback. Why not go for the buyback rather than special dividend? The share price doesn't get much lower through the cycle than where we are today. Why not just execute $500 million buyback and push cash back to shareholders that way.

太好了，謝謝。僅有幾個問題。也許只是那次回購。為什麼不選擇回購而不是特別股利呢？在整個週期中，股價不會比現在低很多。為什麼不直接進行 5 億美元的回購並以這種方式將現金返還給股東？

And then maybe for Shaun, on the Base Metal side, when -- obviously, we've had the copper growth options in courage as for many, many, many years. But when are we actually going to get visibility on the permitting and get FIDs so we can start having more confidence in that growth coming through in Brazil? Thank you.

然後也許對肖恩來說，在基本金屬方面，顯然，我們已經勇敢地選擇了銅的增長方式很多年了。但是，我們什麼時候才能真正了解許可證發放情況並獲得最終投資決定，以便我們能夠對巴西的成長更有信心呢？謝謝。

Myles, regarding dividends and buybacks, we try to come with a balanced approach between the two things, depending on the moment. If you look in the past -- in the recent past, the company has done more buybacks than dividend payments. And now we come with additional dividend payment. But you can expect in the future that if we have the opportunity coming from the cash flow to return more cash to the shareholders, we will probably have a balanced approach between dividends and buybacks depending on where the share price is, for sure.

邁爾斯，關於股息和回購，我們會嘗試根據實際情況在兩者之間採取平衡的方法。如果你回顧過去——近期，該公司的回購金額比股利支付金額還多。現在我們還有額外的股息支付。但你可以期待，如果我們有機會從現金流中向股東返還更多現金，我們肯定會根據股價的水平在股息和回購之間採取平衡的方法。

Hey Myles, it's Shaun. On your question, I think similar to what we talked about at Vale Day. Focus in the short term, as we're seeing with Salobo and Sossego productivities and get these up to their entitlements and actually continue to expand and drill to the extent we can. The next one that we're focusing on where we are expecting permits in Q2 of this year is on Bacaba and there's a lot of focus on that. And you would have seen low capital intensity about $10,000 a ton, and that's the sort of core focus.

嘿，邁爾斯，我是肖恩。關於您的問題，我認為與我們在淡水河谷日談論的內容類似。專注於短期，正如我們所看到的 Salobo 和 Sossego 的生產力，讓它們達到應有的水平，並盡可能地繼續擴大和鑽探。我們下一個關注的是巴卡巴 (Bacaba)，我們預計將在今年第二季度獲得許可，並且我們會將大量注意力放在這個項目上。你會看到資本密集度較低，約為每噸 10,000 美元，這就是核心重點。

Beyond that, we're talking a slightly longer timeline with projects that we'd indicated, things like Alemão, Cristalino, and elsewhere. You would have seen the announcements and material last week on Novo Carajás. And so I think the work that Gustavo and the team are doing, particularly on the government relations and institutional side is really a core focus to help unlock that and to ensure that we can demonstrate with our stakeholders. And I'm sure Gustavo, I don't know if there's anything you wanted to add to that.

除此之外，我們還在討論我們已經指出的稍長一點的專案時間表，例如 Alemão、Cristalino 等。您可能已經看到上週在 Novo Carajá s 上發布的公告和資料。因此，我認為古斯塔沃和團隊所做的工作，特別是在政府關係和機構方面，實際上是幫助解決這個問題並確保我們能夠與利益相關者一起展示的核心重點。我確信古斯塔沃，我不知道您是否還有什麼要補充。

I think you covered. Maybe the only point I'd like to add is what is different, right? We've got this question in -- and I think what we are changing is the approach for development in the region. So we put together with the support of Shaun and the team, a dedicated leadership team to focus only on the new Carajás development.

我認為你已經覆蓋了。也許我唯一想補充的一點就是有什麼不同，對嗎？我們已經提出了這個問題——我認為我們正在改變的是該地區的發展方式。因此，我們在肖恩和團隊的支持下組建了一支專門的領導團隊，專注於新卡拉加的發展。

More investments in drilling, exploration, understanding of the ore body, so we think this is going to allow us to be more expedited, have better understanding about each one of the projects. You know we have several projects in the region that we are not able to develop over the years. And I'm confident that now with this different approach, we'll be able to show progress.

在鑽探、勘探和對礦體的了解方面投入更多，因此我們認為這將使我們更加快捷，更好地了解每一個項目。您知道我們在該地區有好幾個項目多年來都未能開發。我相信，現在透過這種不同的方法，我們將能夠取得進展。

And the idea is that in the following quarters, we start to bring those milestones and the evolution of the program to show you that we've been able to achieve those developments and targets that we had laid out. So I'm optimistic. I think the different approach will certainly result in a greater focus and therefore, the ability for us to grow faster in that region.

我們的想法是，在接下來的幾個季度裡，我們將開始實現這些里程碑和計劃的演變，向你們展示我們已經能夠實現我們所製定的那些發展和目標。所以我很樂觀。我認為不同的方法肯定會使我們更加集中精力，從而使我們能夠在該地區更快地發展。

Timna Tanners, Wolf Research.

蒂姆娜·坦納斯（Timna Tanners），Wolf Research。

Great, thank you and good morning. I wanted to ask now that we're more than halfway through Q1, what you can tell us about volumes so far this quarter, any trends in costs? So that's my first question on Q1.

太好了，謝謝你，早安。我想問一下，現在已經過了第一季的一半以上，您能告訴我們本季迄今的銷售狀況嗎？這是我對第一個問題的第一個疑問。

And then looking at cash costs, they've certainly been benefiting, of course, from the weaker currency by-product credits, of course, in base metals. But what can you do to elaborate on these measures that you're working on to lower costs? And any progress there would be great. Thank you.

然後看看現金成本，他們當然受益於較弱的貨幣副產品信貸，當然，是在基本金屬方面。但是，您可以做些什麼來詳細說明您為降低成本所採取的措施？任何進展都將是巨大的。謝謝。

I would ask Carlos to talk about the operational performance and expectation for Q1? And then Bacci, maybe you can talk about the cost optimization.

我想請卡洛斯談談第一季的營運表現和預期？然後 Bacci，也許您可以談論成本優化。

Timna, on Q1, our performance were similar to last year's performance, although we are having a more intense rainfall this year, but all the asset preparations that we have been doing over the last two years is paying dividends to us. So in spite of that, we foresee a similar performance year-on-year.

提姆納，第一季度，我們的業績與去年相似，儘管今年的降雨更加強烈，但過去兩年我們所做的所有資產準備都為我們帶來了回報。儘管如此，我們預計同比表現仍將類似。

And on the cash cost performance, I think we have -- you're right, there is an effect coming from BRL, which is not a major one. But it is there and the currency is volatile, so we cannot count on that for the future. I think the main measures that we're taking and are paying off in terms of cost management.

關於現金成本表現，我認為——您說得對，巴西雷亞爾確實產生了影響，但影響並不大。但它確實存在，而且貨幣不穩定，所以我們不能指望未來會這樣。我認為我們在成本管理方面採取的主要措施正在取得成效。

First is production stability and operational stability that always brings good news when it comes to cost. The second one is the new projects that came online with a lower cost or especially for iron ore. And third, we continue to move on our program of these specks on the suppliers' relationship. That gradually, all those measures together are starting to pay off, and you can see the result of that in the C1.

首先是生產穩定性和營運穩定性，這在成本方面總是帶來好消息。第二是一些成本較低或專門針對鐵礦石的新項目。第三，我們將繼續推進有關供應商關係的計畫。漸漸地，所有這些措施開始取得成效，你可以在 C1 中看到結果。

Now it's important to mention that C1 is not linear through the year. We have some volatility in the different quarters. But if you look at the moving average, we will continue to see the C1 declining throughout the year.

現在值得一提的是，C1 全年都不是線性的。不同季度都出現了一些波動。但如果看移動平均線，我們將繼續看到 C1 全年下降。

Liam Fitzpatrick, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的利亞姆·菲茨帕特里克。

Good morning, everyone. First question is just another one on the buyback, unfortunately. I just wanted to clarify or trying to understand how you want us and the market to think about it. Is this just to give you flexibility later in the year? And we shouldn't expect to pick up over the next one to two quarters? Or is this buyback effectively in place from today? That's the first question.

大家早安。不幸的是，第一個問題只是另一個關於回購的問題。我只是想澄清或試圖了解您希望我們和市場如何看待這一點。這只是為了讓您在今年稍後獲得靈活性嗎？我們不應該期望未來一到兩個季度內會出現回升嗎？或者說從今天起，這次回購就有效實施了？這是第一個問題。

The buyback is in place already. And how we are going to operate in the market is something that we cannot be very clear about that for obvious reasons. But yes, we have the ability to operate whenever we want from now up to 18 months.

回購已經到位。而由於顯而易見的原因，我們還不能很清楚地知道我們將如何在市場上運作。但是的，從現在起直至 18 個月內，我們有能力隨時開展營運。

Marina Calero, RBC.

瑪麗娜·卡萊羅（Marina Calero），加拿大皇家銀行。

Hello, can you hear me?

你好，你聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes, we can, Marina.

是的，我們可以，瑪麗娜。

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for the call. I have a question on your CapEx guidance. It looks like most of the savings were on growth CapEx. Can you provide more details about the different drivers behind that? And as an extension of that, do you see potential for more efficiencies after 2025?

嗨，下午好。感謝您的來電。我對您的資本支出指導有疑問。看起來大部分節省都花在了成長資本支出上。您能否提供更多有關其背後不同驅動因素的細節？作為對此的延伸，您是否認為 2025 年後效率會有更高的潛力？

You're right, most of the reductions are on the growth part. We are not changing the scope of the CapEx program, but rather working partially on timing and partially on efficiency. And this is something that, for the time being, is only related to 2025. So we are very confident that in '25, we're going to deliver this $5.9 billion. We are still working on what's going to be the guidance for the future for the coming years. We're not prepared for that discussion yet, but we are working on that.

你說得對，大部分的減少都是在成長部分。我們不會改變資本支出計畫的範圍，而是部分致力於時間安排，部分致力於效率。而這暫時只與2025年有關。所以我們非常有信心在25年實現這59億美元。我們仍在努力製定未來幾年的未來指導方針。我們尚未為該討論做好準備，但我們正在努力。

Yuri Pereira, Santander.

尤里·佩雷拉，桑坦德銀行。

Hi guys, good morning. First question is about the CapEx revision for 2025. Is there anything other than the new FX assumption if you could please explore a bit more about it?

大家好，早安。第一個問題是關於 2025 年資本支出修訂。除了新的 FX 假設之外，還有其他嗎？

And the second question is considering current iron ore prices, do you see room for financial debt increase in order to achieve the expanded net debt target? Thank you.

第二個問題是，考慮到目前的鐵礦石價格，您是否認為還有增加金融債務的空間，以實現擴大淨債務的目標？謝謝。

Yuri, on the CapEx side, we are assuming the currency at the current level, around BRL5.7. So there's not a significant effect coming from FX on that.

尤里，在資本支出方面，我們假設貨幣處於當前水平，約為 5.7 巴西雷亞爾。因此，外匯不會對此產生顯著的影響。

When it comes to financial debt, we're going to be monitoring the opportunities in the market. We may come with new transactions. But again, the target is to have the net debt -- expanded net debt around $15 billion at the end of the year.

當談到金融債務時，我們將監控市場上的機會。我們可能會有新的交易。但同樣，目標是到年底淨債務擴大到 150 億美元左右。

Thank you. This concludes today's Q&A session. Vale's conference is now concluded. We thank you for your participation, and wish you a very good day.

謝謝。今天的問答環節到此結束。淡水河谷的會議現已結束。我們感謝您的參與，並祝福您有個愉快的一天。