淡水河谷 (VALE) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Vale's second quarter 2025 earnings call. The presentation is also available for download in English and Portuguese from our website. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，早安。歡迎參加淡水河谷 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。您也可以從我們的網站下載英文和葡萄牙語版本的簡報。（操作員指示）

We would like to advise that forward-looking statements may be provided in this presentation, including Vale's expectations about future events or results, encompassing those matters listed in their respective presentation. We caution you that forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties.

我們謹此提醒，本簡報中可能提供前瞻性陳述，包括淡水河谷對未來事件或結果的預期，涵蓋其各自簡報中列出的事項。我們提醒您，前瞻性陳述並不能保證未來的表現，並且涉及風險和不確定性。

To obtain formation and factors that may lead to results different from those forecast by Vale. Please consult the reports Vale files with the US. Securities and Exchange Commission, the Brazilian Comissao de Valores Mobiliarios. And in particular, the factors discussed under forward-looking statements and Risk Factors in Vale's annual report on Form 20-F.

取得可能導致與Vale預測結果不同的結果和因素。請查閱淡水河谷向美國提交的報告。證券交易委員會、巴西證券交易委員會 (Comissao de Valores Mobiliarios)。特別是淡水河谷 20-F 表年度報告中前瞻性陳述和風險因素中討論的因素。

With us today are Mr. Gustavo Pimenta, CEO; Mr. Marcelo Bacci, Executive Vice President of Finance and Investor Relations; Mr. Rogerio Nogueira, Executive Vice President, Commercial and Development; Mr. Carlos Medeiros, Executive Vice President of Operations; and Mr. Shaun Usmar, CEO of Vale Base Metals.

今天與我們一起出席的有首席執行官 Gustavo Pimenta 先生、財務和投資者關係執行副總裁 Marcelo Bacci 先生、商業和發展執行副總裁 Rogerio Nogueira 先生、營運執行副總裁 Carlos Medeiros 先生以及 Vale Base Metals 首席執行官 Shaun Usmar 先生。

Now I will turn the conference over to Mr. Gustavo Pimenta. Sir, you may now begin.

現在我將會議交給古斯塔沃·皮門塔先生。先生，現在可以開始了。

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Vale's second quarter 2025 conference call. First, I would like to take a moment to remind you of our strategic direction as defined by our Vale 2030 vision. We are building a leading mining platform with the right portfolio of assets. As we leverage our unique endowment to deliver accretive growth opportunities in both copper and iron ore.

大家好，歡迎參加淡水河谷2025年第二季電話會議。首先，我想花點時間提醒大家淡水河谷 2030 願景所定義的策略方向。我們正在建立一個擁有正確資產組合的領先採礦平台。我們利用我們獨特的資源為銅和鐵礦石提供增值成長機會。

We are also highly focused on continuing to gain competitiveness across all commodities. And this quarter's performance only reinforces that we are on the right track to achieve our stated goals. Another key element of our strategy is the increased focus on talent development and leadership. To that end, I'm very happy to have a world-class Executive Committee team fully in place now with the recent arrivals of Sami Arapas our General Counsel and Grazielle Parenti as our VP of Sustainability.

我們也高度重視持續增強所有商品的競爭力。本季的表現再次證明，我們正朝著實現既定目標的正確方向前進。我們策略的另一個關鍵要素是更重視人才發展和領導力。為此，我很高興現在已經擁有一支世界一流的執行委員會團隊，最近我們的總法律顧問薩米·阿拉帕斯 (Sami Arapas) 和可持續發展副總裁格拉齊埃爾·帕倫蒂 (Grazielle Parenti) 也加入其中。

Both professionals bring enormous experience and expertise and will certainly help us to deliver on our long-term strategy. Now let's move on to the highlights of this quarter. On safety, we are pleased to see clear progress towards creating an accident-free work environment across all of our operations. Our safety indicators for the first half of 2025 have clearly improved compared to last year, as represented by a 55% reduction in the high potential recordable injuries indicator.

兩位專業人士都擁有豐富的經驗和專業知識，必將協助我們實現長期策略。現在讓我們來看看本季的亮點。在安全方面，我們很高興看到我們所有業務在創建無事故工作環境方面取得了明顯進展。我們的 2025 年上半年安全指標與去年相比有明顯改善，高潛在可記錄傷害指標減少了 55%。

And we continue to lead our peers in TRIFR. These results are reassuring and confirm that we are on the right path to becoming the safest mining company in the world. This quarter was also marked by another solid operational performance across all business segments. This shows that our focus on operational excellence and on building a superior portfolio are paying off, putting us on track to meet all of our guidance's for the year.

我們在 TRIFR 領域繼續領先同行。這些結果令人欣慰，並證實我們正朝著成為世界上最安全的礦業公司的正確方向前進。本季所有業務部門的營運表現均表現穩健。這表明，我們對卓越營運和建立卓越投資組合的關注正在獲得回報，使我們有望實現今年的所有預期目標。

Iron hour production reached 84 million tons this quarter, 4% higher year-on-year and our highest second quarter output since 2018. Growth was mainly driven by the ramp-up of new assets, such as Capanema, along with a strong and consistent performance from other sites. As S11D, for example, hit another production record this quarter.

本季鐵礦石產量達到 8,400 萬噸，年增 4%，創下 2018 年以來第二季的最高產量。成長主要得益於卡帕內瑪 (Capanema) 等新資產的增加，以及其他站點強勁而穩定的表現。例如，S11D 本季創下了另一項生產記錄。

We remain committed to increasing the flexibility of our product portfolio, which allows us to respond more effectively to market conditions and capture greater value through our commercial strategy. In our energy transition metals business, we continue to make solid progress. Nickel production rose 44% year-on-year, driven by productivity initiatives and the successful ramp-up of the Voisey's Bay underground mine.

我們始終致力於提高產品組合的靈活性，這使我們能夠更有效地應對市場狀況並透過商業策略獲取更大的價值。在我們的能源過渡金屬業務中，我們繼續取得紮實的進展。受生產力措施和 Voisey's Bay 地下礦場成功擴產的推動，鎳產量年增 44%。

I'm also happy to announce that we have started Onca Puma's second furnace commissioning. The furnace when fully ramped up, will contribute with 12 to 15 kilotons of nickel production and will be very cost-competitive. Copper production also performed strongly, increasing 18% compared to the same period last year, our best second quarter since 2019.

我也很高興地宣布，我們已經開始 Onca Puma 的第二座熔爐調試。熔爐全面投入生產後，將生產 12 至 15 千噸鎳，且成本極具競爭力。銅產量也表現強勁，與去年同期相比成長了 18%，這是自 2019 年以來最好的第二季。

The strong performance at VBM highlights the great work Shaun and the team are doing to unlock value from our existing assets and position the company to deliver on our long-term goals, including the highly promising copper growth. Early in the year, we launched the new Carajas program with the vision to accelerate the development of essential projects in one of the most attractive mineral deposits globally.

VBM 的強勁表​​現凸顯了 Shaun 和團隊為釋放現有資產的價值所做的出色工作，並使公司能夠實現我們的長期目標，包括前景廣闊的銅成長。今年年初，我們啟動了新的卡拉哈斯計劃，旨在加速全球最具吸引力的礦藏之一的重要項目的開發。

Since then, the team has been working on several fronts to advance those projects, including increasing the exploration spend to better understand the endowment in the region with very promising results to date. The first important milestone for the new Carajas program was the preliminary license for Bacaba granted in June. Bacaba will extend the life of our Sossego plant with 50 kilotons a year and a very competitive capital intensity of $5,400 per ton, a clear demonstration of the potential value creation we have in the region.

自那時起，該團隊一直在多個方面努力推進這些項目，包括增加勘探支出以更好地了解該地區的資源禀賦，迄今為止已取得非常有希望的成果。新 Carajas 計畫的第一個重要里程碑是 6 月授予 Bacaba 的初步許可。Bacaba 將延長我們索塞戈工廠的使用壽命，每年可生產 5 萬噸，資本密集度極具競爭力，為每噸 5,400 美元，這清楚地證明了我們在該地區創造的潛在價值。

As we advanced on our growth story, one thing remains clear, being a performance-driven company is at the core of our strategy. Our efficiency program driven by innovation and technology is enabling us to consistently reduce costs at a time when much of the industry is struggling to contain inflation. This was the fourth consecutive quarter of year-on-year reduction in our C1 cash cost, putting us on track to meet our 2025 guidance of $20.5 to $22 per ton.

隨著我們不斷發展壯大，有一點始終清晰：成為一家以績效為導向的公司是我們策略的核心。在許多行業都在努力控制通貨膨脹的時候，我們以創新和技術為驅動的效率計劃使我們能夠持續降低成本。這是我們的 C1 現金成本連續第四個季度同比下降，使我們有望實現 2025 年每噸 20.5 至 22 美元的指導目標。

Becoming more competitive and efficient is a top priority for our team, and we will continue to pursue this objective as a key element of our strategy and culture evolution. Finally, talking about the third pillar of our vision, which is on becoming a trusted partner for society. Vale recently published its first sustainability related financial information report, being the first company in Brazil and the first major mining company globally to do so.

提高競爭力和效率是我們團隊的首要任務，我們將繼續追求這一目標，並將其作為我們策略和文化發展的關鍵要素。最後，談談我們願景的第三支柱，即成為社會值得信賴的合作夥伴。淡水河谷近期發布了首份永續發展相關財務資訊報告，這是巴西第一家、也是全球第一家發布該報告的大型礦業公司。

The report outlines climate-related risks, making clear how Vale is managing those while identifying key opportunities for the company, such as the steel industry decarbonization and the increasing need for critical metals like copper and nickel. I encourage you all to explore this report, which reflects our commitment to leading the industry in transparency and sustainable mining initiatives.

報告概述了與氣候相關的風險，明確了淡水河谷如何管理這些風險，同時確定了公司的關鍵機遇，例如鋼鐵業脫碳以及對銅和鎳等關鍵金屬日益增長的需求。我鼓勵大家仔細研究這份報告，它反映了我們致力於引領產業透明度和永續採礦措施的承諾。

I will now pass the floor to Marcelo Bacci to discuss our financial performance. I will be back for closing remarks before the Q&A. Marcelo, please go ahead.

現在我將請馬塞洛·巴奇 (Marcelo Bacci) 討論我們的財務表現。我將在問答環節之前回來做結束語。馬塞洛，請繼續。

Thanks, Gustavo, and good morning, everyone. Our pro forma EBITDA reached $3.4 billion in the second quarter of '25, improving 7% quarter-on-quarter but down 14% year-on-year, driven by the 13% decline in iron ore reference prices. We once again delivered a solid operating performance with production volumes rising and cost declining year-over-year across all commodities.

謝謝，古斯塔沃，大家早安。我們的準備 EBITDA 在 2025 年第二季達到 34 億美元，較上季成長 7%，但年減 14%，原因是鐵礦石參考價格下降 13%。我們再次取得了穩健的經營業績，所有商品的產量均較去年同期上升，成本則較去年同期下降。

This efficiency-driven mindset is increasingly shaping the way we operate and our results reflect the commitment and discipline of our teams. Let's take a closer look at the details of this quarter. Starting in iron ore. Our cost performance continues to show strong momentum, marking the fourth consecutive quarter of year-on-year decline.

這種效率驅動的思維方式正日益塑造我們的營運方式，我們的成果反映了我們團隊的承諾和紀律。讓我們仔細看看本季的細節。從鐵礦石開始。我們的成本表現持續呈現強勁勢頭，連續第四個季度出現年減。

In Q2, our C1 cash cost reached $22.2 per ton, down 11% year-on-year, driven by our efficiency initiatives and a favorable exchange rate. The all-in cost declined 10% year-on-year, reaching $55.3 per ton. This improvement was not only driven by a lower C1 but also by lower expenses and improved premium realization on iron ore fines.

在第二季度，我們的 C1 現金成本達到每噸 22.2 美元，年減 11%，這得益於我們的效率措施和有利的匯率。全成本較去年同期下降10%，達到每噸55.3美元。這種改善不僅是由較低的 C1 推動的，也是由較低的費用和提高的鐵礦石粉溢價實現所推動的。

We are starting to see the benefits of our portfolio optimization strategy with more to come in the coming quarters. We remain highly confident in achieving our full year guidance for both our C1 and all-in costs, implying year-over-year cost reductions despite inflationary pressures. Our energy transition metals business delivered another strong quarterly result with substantial improvements across all assets, reflecting the impact of the asset review initiative led by Shaun.

我們開始看到投資組合優化策略的好處，未來幾季還會有更多好處。我們仍然非常有信心實現全年 C1 和總成本的指導，這意味著儘管存在通膨壓力，但成本仍將同比下降。我們的能源轉型金屬業務再次取得了強勁的季度業績，所有資產均有大幅改善，反映了肖恩領導的資產審查舉措的影響。

In copper, the all-in costs decreased by 60%, reaching $1,400 per ton. This reduction was driven by strong performance at both Salobo and Sossego, along with higher byproduct revenues benefiting from higher gold prices. The lower-than-expected costs in the first half of the year combined with a more favorable outlook for byproduct revenues allow us to revise down our 2025 all-in cost guidance for copper.

銅的總成本下降了 60%，達到每噸 1,400 美元。此次減產是由於薩洛博和索塞戈的強勁表現，以及金價上漲帶來的副產品收入增加。上半年成本低於預期，加上副產品收入前景更為樂觀，使我們能夠下調 2025 年銅的總成本預期。

We now expect a range of $1,500 to $2,000 per ton, which considering everything else constant, would imply a $300 million EBITDA improvement for the year. In nickel, the all-in cost decreased by 30% year-on-year as a result of robust operating improvements in Sudbury and Voisey's Bay with the ramp-up of the underground mines as well as higher revenues from byproducts.

我們現在預計價格範圍為每噸 1,500 美元至 2,000 美元，考慮到其他所有因素不變，這意味著今年的 EBITDA 將增加 3 億美元。就鎳而言，由於薩德伯里和沃伊斯灣的地下礦產量增加以及副產品收入增加，營運狀況強勁改善，總成本較去年同期下降了 30%。

Now moving on to cash generation. Recurring free cash flow reached $1 billion in Q2, $500 million higher than in Q1, driven by a higher pro forma EBITDA and a lower working capital variation. Our CapEx continues to trend downward, reflecting gains from our efficiency program and the completion of key projects like VBME and Capanema. We remain confident in delivering the $5.9 billion CapEx guidance for the year.

現在開始討論現金產生。第二季經常性自由現金流達到 10 億美元，比第一季高出 5 億美元，這得益於備考 EBITDA 的提高和營運資本變化的降低。我們的資本支出持續呈下降趨勢，反映了我們的效率計劃以及 VBME 和 Capanema 等關鍵項目的完成所帶來的收益。我們仍有信心實現今年 59 億美元的資本支出目標。

Additionally, yesterday, our Board of Directors approved a distribution of $1.4 billion in interest on capital to be paid in September, in line with our dividend policy, reinforcing our continued commitment to return value to shareholders. As you can see on this slide, our recurring free cash flow enabled a reduction in our expanded net debt, which ended the quarter at $17.4 billion.

此外，昨天，我們的董事會批准分配 14 億美元的資本利息，將於 9 月支付，這符合我們的股息政策，強化了我們持續致力於為股東帶來回報的承諾。正如您在這張投影片上看到的，我們的經常性自由現金流使我們擴大的淨債務減少了，本季末我們的淨債務為 174 億美元。

Our target range for expanded net debt remains between $10 billion and $20 billion. We expect to gradually move back towards the midpoint of that range in the coming quarters, supported by strong cash flow generation in the second half of the year and the positive impact of the Alianca Energia deal, which we expect to close in Q3.

我們擴大淨債務的目標範圍仍在 100 億美元至 200 億美元之間。我們預計，在下半年強勁的現金流和 Alianca Energia 交易（我們預計將在第三季度完成）的積極影響的支持下，未來幾個季度將逐步回到該範圍的中點。

To conclude, I would like to reinforce our continued disciplined capital allocation approach, keeping our expanded net debt within our target range, controlling CapEx, investing in accretive projects and delivering strong shareholder returns through dividends and buybacks. As Gustavo mentioned earlier, we also remain firmly committed to our efficiency program, ensuring we become an even more competitive company.

最後，我想加強我們持續嚴謹的資本配置方法，將擴大的淨債務保持在目標範圍內，控制資本支出，投資增值項目，並透過股息和回購為股東帶來豐厚的回報。正如古斯塔沃之前提到的，我們也堅定地致力於我們的效率計劃，確保我們成為一家更具競爭力的公司。

With that, I would like to pass the floor back to Gustavo for the key takeaways.

接下來，我想將發言權交還給 Gustavo，請他分享主要要點。

Thanks, Marcelo. Before we open up for the Q&A session, I would like to highlight the key takeaways from today's call. Safety and sustainability are core values, and we are committed to continuously improve our performance while also increasing transparency and keeping an open dialogue with all of our stakeholders. We continue to consistently advance on our operational excellence efforts, which are enabling us to reach record production levels across all of our businesses.

謝謝，馬塞洛。在我們開始問答環節之前，我想先強調一下今天電話會議的要點。安全和永續性是我們的核心價值，我們致力於不斷提高我們的績效，同時提高透明度並與所有利害關係人保持公開對話。我們繼續不斷推進卓越營運工作，這使我們能夠在所有業務中達到創紀錄的生產水平。

Competitiveness and efficiency remain a top priority as the resulting all-in cost reductions will make us more resilient to generate value through the cycle. Carajas is one of the best copper provinces globally. Through our new Carajas program, we are accelerating copper growth by developing accretive projects in the region, such as Bacaba creating long-term value for our shareholders.

競爭力和效率仍然是重中之重，因為由此產生的整體成本降低將使我們更有彈性地在整個週期中創造價值。卡拉哈斯省是全球最好的銅礦省之一。透過我們新的 Carajas 計劃，我們正在該地區開發增值項目（例如 Bacaba），從而加速銅的成長，為我們的股東創造長期價值。

And finally, our disciplined capital allocation approach will continue to ensure health, shareholder remuneration and value creation for all of our stakeholders. Now let's move on to the Q&A session. Thank you.

最後，我們嚴謹的資本配置方法將繼續確保所有利害關係人的健康、股東報酬和價值創造。現在我們進入問答環節。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Marcio Farid Filho, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指令）Marcio Farid Filho，高盛。

Maybe my first question to Rogerio, please. Rogerio, when you look at the production report, it was very clear that Vale's commercial and product strategy was very adapted to the environment. So we saw big swings in terms of product delivery, right? IOCJ was basically cutting half, low grade basically doubled, pellets was quite downbeat in line with the guidance.

這可能是我第一個問題，請問 Rogerio。羅傑裡奧，當你查看生產報告時，很明顯淡水河谷的商業和產品策略非常適應環境。所以我們看到產品交付方面出現了巨大的波動，對嗎？IOCJ 基本上削減了一半，低品位基本上增加了一倍，顆粒的產量與指導值一致，相當悲觀。

So trying to understand how you're thinking about product mix going forward when you consider where premiums are that Simandou is probably ramping up high-grade ore into next year. And obviously, considering Vale's asset base in Brazil and also the blending facilities as well, please? And secondly, my second question to Shaun, on the base metal side.

因此，當您考慮溢價時，請嘗試了解您如何考慮未來的產品組合，西芒杜可能會在明年增加高品位礦石。顯然，請考慮淡水河谷在巴西的資產基礎以及混合設施，好嗎？其次，我要問肖恩的第二個問題是關於賤金屬方面的。

Nickel was quite robust, obviously, from low levels, but even adjusting for non-recurring items was very strong and EBITDA basically increased four times, right? So just wondering if it's a new recurring level, can we expect more cost savings and more profitability improvement, both on nickel and copper as well, generally speaking?

顯然，鎳的價格從低點開始就相當強勁，但即使調整非經常性項目後價格仍然非常強勁，EBITDA 基本上增加了四倍，對嗎？所以我只是想知道，如果這是一個新的經常性水平，我們是否可以預期鎳和銅方面會有更多的成本節約和盈利能力的提高？

Marcio, thank you for the question. On the product portfolio, I think what I would like to reinforce is that we are focusing on value, as we said last time and more broadly optimizing total contribution considering premiums, costs, volumes. So it's not only -- it's a complete understanding of where we can generate value. We keep working on building flexibility in our supply chain.

馬西奧，謝謝你的提問。關於產品組合，我想強調的是，正如我們上次所說的那樣，我們關注的是價值，並且更廣泛地考慮保費、成本和數量來優化整體貢獻。所以這不僅僅是——這是對我們可以在哪裡創造價值的全面了解。我們一直致力於增強供應鏈的靈活性。

We are looking to adjust product offering dynamically. As just mentioned, as market changes, as premium changes, as steel margin changes, we need to adjust our portfolio. And in order to enhance this flexibility, we are seeking to increase our concentration capacity and blending capacity, not only in China but also outside China.

我們正在尋求動態調整產品供應。正如剛才所提到的，隨著市場變化、溢價變化、鋼材利潤變化，我們需要調整我們的投資組合。為了增強這種靈活性，我們正在尋求提高我們的濃縮能力和混合能力，不僅在中國，而且在中國以外。

But just to give you some examples of supply chain flexibility, as you just asked. As the steel margins declined in the past couple of months. We -- and quality premiums narrowed. We revised completely our portfolio. As an example, we revised our IOCJ, our iron ore from Carajas specification. We introduced, as I just mentioned last time, a mid-grade Carajas ore.

但正如您剛才問到的，我只是想給您一些供應鏈彈性的例子。由於過去幾個月鋼鐵利潤率下降。我們——品質溢價縮小了。我們徹底修改了我們的投資組合。例如，我們修改了 IOCJ，即 Carajas 鐵礦石規格。正如我上次提到的，我們介紹了一種中品位的卡拉加斯礦石。

We increased our concentration of high silica ores. So all this, with the goal of not only simply not only adjusting the products to the market, but also of simplifying our mining operations, improving this way the conversion of resources. This also helps us to decrease costs, increase production, decrease the number of products. So it is a total optimization of the system.

我們提高了高矽礦石的濃度。所以，這一切的目的不僅是簡單地調整產品以適應市場，也是為了簡化我們的採礦作業，從而改善資源的轉換。這也有助於我們降低成本、提高產量、減少產品數量。所以這是對系統的全面優化。

And so that you know today, we just tendered new projects of Carajas and new products of mid-grade very successfully. I think you may be able to see this impact, which has been quite positive. For example, if you look into BRBF premiums versus the premiums on (technical difficulty), we have had a tremendous change and a tremendous increase in the premiums on BRBF.

正如您今天所知，我們剛剛成功投標了 Carajas 的新項目和中檔新產品。我想你們可能會看到這種影響，它是相當正面的影響。例如，如果您研究 BRBF 溢價與（技術難度）溢價，您會發現 BRBF 的溢價發生了巨大的變化，而且溢價大幅增加。

The premiums on concentrates also increased, especially on the spot market in China. And more remarkably, silica penalties narrowed by about $2 per ton on a percentage point relative to alumina ores from April to July. This all are very significant improvements in price realization. So this actually, when you look into Vale's overall portfolio has a very significant impact primarily because all our orders are relatively higher in silicon.

精礦的溢價也有所上漲，尤其是在中國的現貨市場。更值得注意的是，4 月至 7 月期間，二氧化矽的罰款相對於氧化鋁礦石每噸減少了約 2 美元。這些都是價格實現方面非常顯著的改善。因此，當你查看淡水河谷的整體產品組合時，這實際上會產生非常顯著的影響，主要是因為我們所有訂單中的矽含量相對較高。

But obviously, I think you also asked about Simandou. Simandou would change the dynamic into the market. But what I can tell you is that we are prepared to make the necessary adjustments, change our product mix, changing channel allocation as Simandou comes into the market.

但顯然，我認為您也詢問了西芒杜的情況。西芒杜將改變市場動態。但我可以告訴你們的是，隨著西芒杜進入市場，我們準備好做出必要的調整，改變我們的產品組合，改變通路分配。

And Marcio, it's Shaun speaking. So to your question, I think you may recall late last year, Vale Day and then in Q1, we set about with the base metals business doing a few things. The first was looking to lower our global overhead through efficiency programs to make the organization as effective as possible and reengage the operations so that they can effectively be as productive as possible and successfully compete for capital.

我是馬西奧，我是肖恩。對於您的問題，我想您可能還記得去年年底的淡水河谷日以及第一季度，我們開始針對基本金屬業務做一些事情。首先，我們希望透過效率計劃來降低我們的全球管理費用，使組織盡可能高效，並重新開展運營，以便他們能夠有效地提高生產力並成功地競爭資本。

We call it internally project catalyst. And what we've seen to date on that initiative has been quite remarkable with the team's responding. So you'll recall in Q1, we said that we'd removed about 1/3 of our global overhead and G&A. We've actually gone beyond that. I think at the time in Q1, it was about a $285 million cash flow improvements on our internal budgets from last year.

我們內部稱之為專案催化劑。到目前為止，我們看到團隊對這項舉措的回應非常出色。因此，您會記得，在第一季度，我們說過我們已經削減了約 1/3 的全球管理費用和一般及行政費用。事實上我們已經超越了這一點。我認為在第一季度，我們的內部預算比去年同期的現金流改善了約 2.85 億美元。

We're looking out at about $340 million, and I see more opportunity. And I think what you see in this quarter is the first with the lag between what appears in our actual accounts and then the timing on cost of goods sold, you're seeing the flow-through. So our latest numbers now are in our forecast. We're banking about $340 million of cash improvements where more than half of that is in OpEx, the rest in CapEx.

我們的投資金額約為 3.4 億美元，而且我看到了更多機會。我認為您在本季度看到的是，首先是我們實際帳戶中出現的內容與銷售成本的時間之間存在滯後，您看到的是流通。因此，我們現在的最新數字就在我們的預測之中。我們擁有約 3.4 億美元的現金改善，其中超過一半用於營運支出，其餘用於資本支出。

To your point, nickel, out of necessity just given the point in the cycle, I think we're seeing is a disproportionate amount of those savings. And we're also seeing a large impact from fixed cost dilution and also the benefit of polymetalics. So just a few things to consider. I think we're on track for certainly the -- on the copper side, the best performance we've seen in -- certainly at Salobo.

對於你的觀點，鎳，出於必要性，考慮到週期點，我認為我們看到的節省量是不成比例的。我們也看到固定成本稀釋和多金屬效益的巨大影響。因此只需考慮幾件事。我認為我們肯定會取得——在銅方面，我們肯定會取得迄今為止在薩洛博所見過的最佳表現。

And at Sossego with the productivity improvements, the unit cost improvements alone, we're seeing nearly a 40% improvement with the work that new citizens and his team is doing. So despite the copper price environment and gold price environment being very supportive, those efficiency and programs are driving. So you're seeing fixed cost (technical difficulty) that's occurring with increased volumes, but also low overhead. So there's that double whammy plus the benefit of the byproducts.

在索塞戈，隨著生產力的提高，僅單位成本的改善，我們看到新公民和他的團隊所做的工作提高了近 40%。因此，儘管銅價環境和金價環境非常有利，但這些效率和計劃仍在推動。因此，您會看到固定成本（技術難度）隨著數量的增加而增加，但開銷也很低。因此，這不僅有雙重打擊，還有副產品的好處。

And to put that in context for you, I think we had mentioned this on the last call, but it's worth just reiterating it. For every $100 an ounce move in gold price, it's about $135 a ton improvement in all-in cost for copper, for example. Importantly, when you go to nickel, we're seeing a big volume effect in addition to a very large fixed cost reduction that we're just starting to reveal Voisey's Bay, as Gustavo has mentioned, we're seeing a very successful ramp-up of the underground there.

為了讓您了解情況，我想我們在上次通話中提到過這一點，但值得重申。例如，金價每上漲 100 美元/盎司，銅的總成本就會上漲約 135 美元/噸。重要的是，當你談到鎳時，我們除了看到非常大的固定成本降低之外，還看到了巨大的產量效應，我們剛剛開始揭示沃伊西灣，正如古斯塔沃所提到的那樣，我們看到那裡的地下開採非常成功。

Peter and his team are about 30% ahead of our internal plans and are well set to continue with the successful ramp-up. And very pleasingly, because of the owned fee feature that is going into Long Harbor, we've actually seen the team for the first time in the history of their operation actually achieved them plate of that operation in May.

Peter 和他的團隊比我們的內部計劃提前了約 30%，並且已經做好了繼續成功提升的準備。非常令人高興的是，由於長港的自有費用功能，我們實際上看到該團隊在其營運歷史上第一次在五月實現了該運營的目標。

And we look forward to seeing those teams continue to deliver the throughputs, particularly driven through our own feed, which has cash flow benefits for our business. Sudbury, we've seen significant improvements, not just in overhead reductions, but throughput. You'll see that (Totten) for example, it's the highest ore waste that we've seen in the first half of the year there in over six years.

我們期待看到這些團隊繼續提供產出，特別是透過我們自己的供稿推動，這將為我們的業務帶來現金流效益。薩德伯里，我們看到了顯著的改善，不僅是開銷的減少，還有吞吐量的提高。以托頓為例，你會發現，這是我們六年來上半年在那裡看到的最高礦石廢料量。

And in Creighton, it's the highest metal produced month in June since nearly a decade. And Ontario itself, when you look at copper and just to remind you, I think in these pricing environments, only about 40% of our revenue coming from that complex is actually nickel, the rest is copper, cobalt, PGMs, and that diversification is really helpful. But we're seeing about 6% more copper in the first half versus the same period in the last year.

在克雷頓，這是近十年來六月金屬產量最高的一個月。就安大略省本身而言，當你看到銅時，需要提醒你的是，我認為在這樣的定價環境下，來自該綜合體的收入中只有約 40% 實際上是鎳，其餘的是銅、鈷、鉑族金屬，這種多樣化確實很有幫助。但我們發現今年上半年銅的產量比去年同期增加了約 6%。

And just going back to the polymetallic piece, as you consider the sustainability and a potential going forward. For every $1,000 a ton move in copper, our all-in costs move were about $460 a ton. Platinum for every $100, it's about $55. Palladium, for every $100 an ounce, that's about $60 a ton. And gold for every $100 an ounce is about $25 a ton.

回到多金屬部分，考慮其永續性和未來的潛力。銅價每上漲 1,000 美元/噸，我們的總成本就會上漲約 460 美元/噸。每 100 美元購買白金，大約需要 55 美元。鈀金每盎司價格為 100 美元，相當於每噸 60 美元。而每100美元一盎司的黃金價格大約相當於每噸25美元。

So I'm seeing across-the-board performance. Onca Puma, as Gustavo mentioned, that just started the second furnace, even before then, (technical difficulty) team are heading second quartile improvements and we should be on track for metal by the end of Q3 in that operation and a very competitive position.

所以我看到的是全面的表現。正如 Gustavo 所提到的，Onca Puma 剛剛啟動了第二座熔爐，甚至在那之前，（技術難度）團隊就正在進行第二四分位數的改進，我們應該在第三季末在該操作中實現金屬的正常生產，並處於非常有競爭力的地位。

So I'm very proud of the team. I think we're on track, and I think you should expect to see continuation of us focusing on delivery of increased volumes, fixed cost dilution, a reduction of fixed costs and improvements in productivities.

所以我為這個團隊感到非常自豪。我認為我們正走在正軌上，而且我認為您應該會看到我們繼續專注於增加產量、稀釋固定成本、降低固定成本和提高生產力。

Rodolfo De Angele, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Rodolfo De Angele。

So I have a couple of questions. I think more towards back, but feel free to jump in whoever wants to help. But I think I want to explore a little bit more the side of cost. It's clearly the highlight of the quarter. As Gustavo mentioned, 10% lower iron ore, 60% on copper, 30% on nickel, that's quite impressive. And I wanted to explore a little bit of the future on the cost, right?

我有幾個問題。我比較傾向支持，但如果有人想幫忙，歡迎隨時加入。但我想進一步探討成本方面的問題。這顯然是本季的亮點。正如古斯塔沃所提到的，鐵礦石價格下降 10%，銅價格下降 60%，鎳價格下降 30%，這相當令人印象深刻。我想探索一下未來的成本，對嗎？

So what is structural here? And probably more important, is the baseline of opportunities on the cost side, is it still pretty healthy? Can you give us a little bit more color? You do seem very comfortable on the guidance, but I just wanted to hear a little bit more detail on the cost opportunity on VBM and on iron ore as well. That's my first question.

那這裡的結構是什麼呢？也許更重要的是，成本方面的機會基線是否仍然相當健康？您能給我們多講一點嗎？您似乎對該指導非常滿意，但我只是想聽到有關 VBM 和鐵礦石成本機會的更多細節。這是我的第一個問題。

And the second is on shareholder return. This is a recurring question that I get from investors. The company is doing well. Clearly, we're seeing the performance stable, the company is generating cash. And the stock is set at least, that's our assessment. So the question is on shareholder returns. So looking forward, what do we have to see? Do we see a buyback program being something that the company will be pursuing more aggressively? Those are my two questions.

第二是股東回報。這是投資人常問我的一個問題。公司經營狀況良好。顯然，我們看到公司業績穩定，正在產生現金。至少庫存已經確定，這是我們的評估。所以問題在於股東回報。那麼展望未來，我們會看到什麼呢？我們是否認為回購計畫是公司將更積極推行的計畫？這是我的兩個問題。

On the cost side, we feel very confident about delivering the guidance for this year in iron ore. The operational performance has been very stable, and the new operations are coming in at a very good pace, and we feel very good about continuing to deliver according to the guidance. Of course, in the second half of this year, we have tougher comps since the performance at the end of last year was very good.

在成本方面，我們對實現今年鐵礦石的預期非常有信心。營運表現一直非常穩定，新業務正在以非常好的速度開展，我們對繼續按照指導方針交付感到非常高興。當然，由於去年年底的業績非常好，今年下半年我們的業績會更加艱難。

But we are feeling very, very confident about the guidance that we have for iron ore. On the base metal side, as Shaun mentioned, we also have a very consistent and robust operation today that enables us to believe that we are going to continue to deliver the same level of cost in nickel around the same level that we have today in the second half of the year.

但我們對鐵礦石的預期非常有信心。在賤金屬方面，正如肖恩所提到的，我們今天的營運也非常穩定和強勁，這使我們相信，我們將繼續在下半年提供與今天相同的鎳成本水平。

And we have this new guidance that we published for copper that we also feel very confident about that. So the performance and the stability of our operations are making us believe that the cost performance will continue to be within the ranges of the guidance's that we provided to the market. When it comes to shareholder return, we just announced the dividend in the form of interest on capital for this first half. which is related to the minimum policy that we have, 30% of operating cash flow.

我們針對銅發布了新的指導意見，我們對此非常有信心。因此，我們營運的績效和穩定性使我們相信，成本績效將繼續保持在我們向市場提供的指導範圍內。說到股東回報，我們剛剛宣布了上半年以資本利息形式派發的股息，這與我們的最低政策有關，即 30% 的經營現金流。

We will -- during the second half of this year, depending on how we perform on cash flow, we will decide about potential additional dividends and or buybacks. We just announced today the approval by our Board for also the usage potentially for the buybacks of derivative instruments that could enable us to manage the cash flow on a better way. So I would say that we continue to see a mismatch between the operating performance and the valuation that we see in the market.

我們將在今年下半年根據我們的現金流表現來決定是否發放額外股利或回購股票。我們今天剛宣布董事會批准回購衍生工具，這使我們能夠更好地管理現金流。因此我想說，我們仍然看到經營業績和市場估值之間存在不匹配。

So we are getting prepared to move forward with some of these actions during the second half of this year.

因此，我們準備在今年下半年推進其中一些行動。

Amos Fletcher, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的阿莫斯·弗萊徹。

I had two questions. The first one actually just following up on that last answer, just around the use of financial instruments and derivatives to do the buyback. Can you just go into a bit more detail to explain exactly how that would work and the potential quantum of it? And does it enable you to start a buyback earlier than you might otherwise have done potentially in the second half of the year?

我有兩個問題。第一個問題其實只是對最後一個答案的延續，即使用金融工具和衍生性商品進行回購。您能否更詳細地解釋一下它的工作原理以及它的潛在量子？這是否能讓您比下半年可能更早開始回購？

And then my second question was just on Vale Base Metals. I just wanted to ask about the recent departure of Mark Cutifani and whether that indicates any potential change in strategy to VBM over the long term?

我的第二個問題是關於淡水河谷基本金屬的。我只是想問一下馬克·庫蒂法尼 (Mark Cutifani) 最近離職的情況，這是否預示著 VBM 的長期戰略將發生任何潛在變化？

Thank you, Amos. In relation to the derivatives usage, it's important to mention that according to the regulations of the Brazilian authorities, we have to be very precise about what kind of derivatives that we use for the buyback program. So the approval that we got yesterday from our Board was just an explanation of what would be the different kind of derivatives that we are authorized to use.

謝謝你，阿莫斯。關於衍生性商品的使用，值得一提的是，根據巴西當局的規定，我們必須非常精確地確定用於回購計畫的衍生性商品類型。因此，我們昨天從董事會獲得的批准只是對我們被授權使用的不同衍生品類型的解釋。

Basically, the decision between buying straight in the market or using derivatives is related to the cost of capital and also related to the cash flow management of the company. So we wanted to have the options open to go one way or the other, depending on how the market performs in the second half of this year. But in relation to the decision of actually going to the market and performing the buybacks, this will depend, of course, on how comfortable we feel in terms of cash flow generation and the room that we have on our net debt policy.

基本上，直接從市場購買或使用衍生性商品的決定與資本成本有關，也與公司的現金流量管理有關。因此，我們希望根據今年下半年市場的表現，做出不同的選擇。但至於真正進入市場並進行回購的決定，這當然取決於我們對現金流產生的感覺以及我們的淨債務政策的空間。

Amos, Gustavo here. On the VBM Board and the departure of Mark, no change in its strategy. That was always the design when we invited Mark to join us. The idea there was to set up the asset review, help us build the team, and that has been achieved. So he was extremely helpful, and we are very grateful for the work that he did. And it was the design once we had the team in place that they would then take over and move their strategy along. So no change in strategy. If anything, what you want to do is to accelerate the future that we laid out for VBM.

阿莫斯，我是古斯塔沃。關於 VBM 董事會和馬克的離職，其策略沒有改變。當我們邀請馬克加入我們時，我們一直都是這麼想的。當時的想法是進行資產審查，幫助我們建立團隊，現在這個目標已經實現了。所以他非常有幫助，我們非常感謝他所做的工作。一旦我們的團隊到位，他們就會接手並推進他們的策略。因此策略沒有改變。如果有的話，你想要做的就是加速我們為 VBM 規劃的未來。

Leonardo Correa, BTG.

萊昂納多·科雷亞，BTG。

Yes. So a couple of questions on my side. Number one, just moving back to perhaps to Rodolfo's question on the cash returns, right, which I think is the, let's say, the central element to Vale's investment thesis, right? I mean there's a bit of a glass half full or half empty, right? Vale, I mean when you look at the dividend that was announced, it's a 7% yield.

是的。我有幾個問題。第一，回到羅道夫關於現金回報的問題，對吧，我認為這是淡水河谷投資理論的核心要素，對吧？我的意思是，杯子裡的東西要么是半滿，要么是半空，對吧？淡水河谷，我的意思是，當你查看已宣布的股息時，它的收益率為 7%。

So we sensed, this is higher than the Australian peers, right? However, lower than some Brazilian peers and much lower than the CDI rates, which are the reference interest rates in the country, right? So the question always ends up being, I mean, what Vale needs to see, what needs to happen for extraordinary dividends for Vale to return to those, let's say, to those brighter days, very strong cash returns, double digits with Vale paying quite a lot of extraordinary dividends, right?

所以我們感覺，這比澳洲同行要高，對嗎？但是，比巴西的一些同行要低，而且比 CDI 利率（該國的參考利率）低得多，對嗎？所以問題總是，我的意思是，淡水河谷需要看到什麼，淡水河谷需要發生什麼才能使特別股息回到那些更光明的日子，非常強勁的現金回報，兩位數，淡水河谷支付相當多的特別股息，對嗎？

So maybe a bit redundant again, but we've been seeing iron ore prices surprise on the upside. I think many observers have been waiting and waiting for a correction, which hasn't come and maybe will not come, who knows, right? It's very difficult to forecast. But would it be fair to say that in the current environment, with some of the proceeds coming in, in the third quarter from Alianca and with, let's say, with the resilient iron ore price, would you see Vale back to extraordinary dividends towards the end of the year?

所以也許又有點多餘，但我們已經看到鐵礦石價格意外上漲。我認為許多觀察家一直在等待修正，但修正還沒有到來，也許不會到來，誰知道呢，對吧？這很難預測。但是，在目前的環境下，隨著 Alianca 在第三季度獲得部分收益，並且鐵礦石價格保持堅挺，您是否認為淡水河谷將在年底恢復派發特別股息？

So that's my first question. Again, trying to address the marginal buyer at Vale, right? With that in the mindset, right? I mean it depends on who you talk to, people see the dividend as high or low, right, or relatively low. The second question to Marcelo specifically, right, on the CapEx guidance. I mean, the free cash flow number in the quarter was solid, right? 10% yield.

這是我的第一個問題。再次嘗試解決淡水河谷的邊際買家問題，對嗎？抱著這種心態，對嗎？我的意思是，這取決於你與誰交談，人們認為股息是高或低，對，或相對較低。第二個問題具體是問馬塞洛的，關於資本支出指引。我的意思是，本季的自由現金流數字很穩定，對嗎？10%收益率。

It was based off a relatively low CapEx figure in the quarter, right? I mean $1 billion of outflows in CapEx. I know it's wrong to annualize this, but it's natural to do, right? I mean $4 billion, your guidance is almost $6 billion, slightly under $6 billion for the year. I know there's an erratic pace to CapEx, but I think the natural question would be, why not reduce the guidance or what are the risks that you end up with lower outlays versus your guidance? Those are the two questions.

這是基於本季相對較低的資本支出數字，對嗎？我的意思是資本支出流出 10 億美元。我知道將其年度化是錯誤的，但這樣做是很自然的，對吧？我的意思是 40 億美元，而您的指導金額是接近 60 億美元，略低於全年 60 億美元。我知道資本支出的速度不穩定，但我認為自然而然的問題是，為什麼不降低指導值，或最終支出低於指導值的風險是什麼？這是兩個問題。

Thank you, Leo. On the cash returns, I think, first, I don't think it's fair to compare with CDI, right? This is not our cost of capital. But I understand where you come from. The scenario is one that if we continue to see iron ore prices around $100, I think there's a good chance that we have room for additional payouts in the form of buybacks or additional dividends in the second half of this year as we did last year.

謝謝你，Leo。關於現金回報，我認為，首先，與 CDI 進行比較是不公平的，對嗎？這不是我們的資本成本。但我了解你的出發點。假設鐵礦石價格繼續保持在 100 美元左右，我認為我們很有可能在今年下半年有空間以回購或額外股息的形式進行額外支出，就像去年一樣。

But we're going to have to see how the market performs. We are very confident on the tools that are under our control on the cost side. But of course, we depend on market prices to determine the cash flow that we're going to have available in our hands to determine the allocation of capital that will most likely include more returns to shareholders if we are more towards a situation where our net debt, expanded net debt moves towards the midpoint of our range, which is $15 billion.

但我們必須觀察市場表現如何。我們對成本方面可控的工具非常有信心。但當然，我們依靠市場價格來確定我們手中可用的現金流，以確定資本配置，如果我們更傾向於淨債務、擴大後的淨債務朝著我們範圍的中點（即 150 億美元）移動，那麼最有可能的是向股東提供更多的回報。

So if we feel that we are going in the direction of going below $15 billion increase, the chances of additional payouts will probably increase. And we're going to have to decide if we're going to go in the direction of buybacks or additional dividends depending on how the market is performing. On the CapEx side, we do recognize that the number for this quarter was relatively low.

因此，如果我們覺得我們的支出成長將低於 150 億美元，那麼額外支出的可能性可能會增加。我們將根據市場表現來決定是否進行回購或額外股利。在資本支出方面，我們確實認識到本季的數字相對較低。

That was a seasonal effect. We feel very confident about the $5.9 billion guidance that we have for the year. At this point, there is no indication of a change in the guidance for the year, but rather only a seasonal effect for this quarter.

這是季節性的影響。我們對今年 59 億美元的目標非常有信心。目前，沒有跡象表明今年的指導方針會發生變化，而只是本季的季節性影響。

Daniel Sasson, Itau BBA.

Daniel Sasson，伊塔烏 BBA。

My first question is related to pellets and maybe Rogerio, you can talk about the strategy of maximizing value and not necessarily quality in your portfolio. How do you see -- or to what you attribute, Rogerio, the recent decline in pellet premiums? Do you think that maybe the (anti-pollution) or the supply side reforms in China could help on that front if steel producers' margins increase?

我的第一個問題與顆粒有關，也許 Rogerio，您可以談談最大化價值的策略，而不一定是投資組合的品質。羅傑裡奧，您如何看待——或者您如何歸因於——近期顆粒溢價的下降？如果鋼鐵生產商的利潤率提高，您是否認為中國的（反污染）或供給面改革可能會在這方面有所幫助？

And do you see that happening at some point given that you're falling guidance for premiums this year is -- would likely imply a significant improvement in the second half? And maybe my second question to Shaun, you talked a little bit about the reduction in your guidance for copper production costs. And you mentioned that a chunk of that came on the back of higher gold prices, right, or higher byproduct sales.

鑑於您今年的保費指導價正在下降，您是否認為這種情況在某個時候會發生——這可能意味著下半年會顯著改善？我的第二個問題是問肖恩，您談到了降低銅生產成本指導價的問題。您提到，其中很大一部分是由於金價上漲或副產品銷售額增加所致。

But specifically for gold, a big chunk of that or almost all of it is you don't get to keep it, right, because of the streaming transactions you've made in the past. Do you think or are you interested at all in maybe renegotiating some of the terms of those acquisition -- of those deals? Or do you see in any way the possibility of increasing your exposure to gold? Or is it something that you'd like to do?

但具體到黃金，其中很大一部分或幾乎全部都是你無法保留的，因為你過去進行過流式交易。您是否認為或您是否有興趣重新談判這些收購或交易的一些條款？或者您看到了增加黃金投資的可能性？還是這是你想做的事情？

Daniel, thank you very much for the question on pellets. I think, first, the market that we serve is the market of the Atlantic. We also serve the MENA region, the US., in Japan and Korea and Taiwan, not so much China. So the dynamic is a little bit different. I think what we're facing and when we look into the short term is a decrease in demand because China has been exporting a significant amount of steel.

丹尼爾，非常感謝您提出有關顆粒的問題。我認為，首先，我們服務的市場是大西洋市場。我們也為中東和北非地區、美國、日本、韓國和台灣提供服務，但對中國服務較少。因此動態有點不同。我認為，從短期來看，我們面臨的是需求下降，因為中國一直在出口大量鋼鐵。

And those products are actually coming into the regions that I just mentioned, and they are reducing the necessity for higher production in these regions. Thus, with less productivity requirements, most of our clients are reducing the amount of pellets they use in their burden. So this is a lot related to the steel exports going to those regions.

這些產品實際上正在進入我剛才提到的地區，並且正在減少這些地區提高產量的必要性。因此，由於生產力要求較低，我們的大多數客戶都在減少其負擔中使用的顆粒數量。所以這很大程度與向這些地區出口鋼鐵有關。

In addition to that, I think there is also the increase in supply from Samarco and some from LKAB. We are monitoring this situation very closely. I mean, obviously, we expect this to change and gradually more demand will come from pellets. When you look into the medium to long term, we see a significant increase in demand. There are several electric arc furnaces being planned around the world in different geographies, just to name a few.

除此之外，我認為 Samarco 和 LKAB 的供應量也有所增加。我們正在密切監視這一情況。我的意思是，顯然，我們預計這種情況會改變，並且來自顆粒的需求將逐漸增加。從中長期來看，我們會看到需求顯著增加。舉幾個例子，世界各地不同地區正在規劃建造多座電弧爐。

If you think about Europe, you may see (technical difficulty), (Salzgitter). (technical difficulty), SSAB. If you go for the MENA region. So you go North Africa, (Tosyali), (technical difficulty) some mills in Oman as well. In the US, you might -- we're just following the decision from Hyundai to install a new electric arc furnace in Louisiana. Turning into Mexico is expanding. There's also a Big River 2. In Japan and Korea, Nippon, JFE, POSCO, they're all looking into electric arc furnaces.

如果你考慮一下歐洲，你可能會看到（技術難度），（薩爾茲吉特）。（技術難度），SSAB。如果您前往中東和北非地區。所以你去北非（托斯亞利），（技術難題）阿曼的一些工廠也是如此。在美國，您可能會—我們只是專注於現代汽車在路易斯安那州安裝新電弧爐的決定。轉向墨西哥正在擴大。還有《大河2》。在日本和韓國，日本鋼鐵公司、JFE、浦項鋼鐵公司等都在研究電弧爐。

So I think the view is that gradually. And these projects that I'm talking about, they are all planned to come into place by 2030. So what we see is that despite the exports from China, which is impacting primarily the blast furnace market, we see that there's going to be a lot of demand coming on board gradually and pellet prices should actually recover.

所以我認為觀點是逐漸的。我所說的這些項目都計劃在2030年之前實現。因此，我們看到，儘管中國的出口主要影響了高爐市場，但我們看到大量需求將逐漸湧現，球團價格實際上應該會回升。

I mean how fast this recovery will be is still a bit difficult to define, but we're monitoring that closely and taking the necessary solutions in terms of capacity, in terms of production of our pellets.

我的意思是，這種復甦的速度有多快仍然有點難以定義，但我們正在密切監測，並在產能和顆粒生產方面採取必要的解決方案。

Yes. And Daniel, a good question on the streaming transaction. You may recall my role before this was having founded streaming and royalty business. So I've been on the other side of this sort of question. I think it's useful. So firstly, we have a contractual arrangement primarily with Wheaton, on Salobo, and these are financing transactions that go back a long way, right?

是的。丹尼爾，關於串流媒體交易，這是一個好問題。您可能還記得，在此之前，我的職責是創立串流媒體和版稅業務。所以我一直站在這個問題的另一端。我覺得很有用。首先，我們主要與 Wheaton 就 Salobo 簽訂了合約協議，這些融資交易可以追溯到很久以前，對嗎？

The management team in Vale at the time, whatever the choice between issuing equity or debt. And just the same there where you're not going to, let's say, (railway concession) contracts that you got with your equity or debt holders. We have a contract that we're delivering into. But to put it in context, proceeds received so far on those streaming transactions going back to 2013, excluding the ongoing payments are about $4.1 billion that the business has received.

當時淡水河谷的管理團隊，不論選擇發行股票或債券。同樣，你也不會與你的股權或債權人簽訂（鐵路特許經營）合約。我們有一份正在履行的合約。但具體來說，自 2013 年以來，串流媒體交易迄今所獲得的收益（不包括持續付款）約為 41 億美元。

And to your point, our focus here is on really where we can control. We've actually outperformed on gold in the first half just with the ebbs and flows of both the performance of Salobo as well as the sort of mine segments. So we expect that to be a bit less in the second half. But really, the focus for us is on optimizing the production as a whole.

正如您所說，我們的重點是我們真正能夠控制的地方。事實上，儘管 Salobo 和礦場部門的業績有起有落，但我們上半年的黃金表現仍然優於黃金。因此我們預計下半年這一數字會略有下降。但實際上，我們的重點是優化整個生產。

We are the beneficiary of the residual gold regardless, and if we were ever to look at financing alternatives in the future for future growth, we consider all options as we have, albeit using a lot of the experience, obviously, that I've got from having done these before. So yes, hopefully, that answers your question. But our main focus is on optimizing free cash and allocating our capital well and honoring our contracts.

無論如何，我們都是剩餘黃金的受益者，如果我們將來要尋找融資替代方案以實現未來成長，我們會考慮所有的選擇，儘管顯然我會利用以前做過這些事情所積累的大量經驗。是的，希望這能回答你的問題。但我們的主要重點是優化自由現金、合理配置資本並履行合約。

Carlos De Alba, Morgan Stanley.

卡洛斯·德阿爾巴，摩根士丹利。

Yes, I'm here. Sorry. Yes. Maybe a follow-up on what we just discussed for Carlos Medeiros, maybe for Rogério, on the ( briquettes ) project you finished given that it's no longer there as part of the (technical difficulty) you're working on. How does the -- given the current market situation that Rogerio just elaborated, how are your customers accepting and buying the briquettes that you are now producing?

是的，我在這裡。對不起。是的。也許是我們剛剛為卡洛斯·梅德羅斯 (Carlos Medeiros) 和羅傑裡奧 (Rogério) 討論的後續事宜，關於你們完成的（煤球）項目，因為它不再是你們正在處理的（技術難題）的一部分。鑑於羅傑裡奧剛才闡述的當前市場形勢，您的客戶如何接受和購買您現在生產的煤球？

And how is the ramp-up of the project? When do you think you can achieve a stable performance and maybe optimum cost? And any comments that you can give us in terms of the margins that you could potentially achieve in these products? And then maybe for Shaun, just a continuation of the last response. Shaun, look, fantastic performance, very good to see the 2025 all-in cost guidance declining as dramatic as it did.

專案進度如何？您認為何時可以達到穩定的效能和最佳成本？您能就這些產品可能實現的利潤率給我們什麼意見嗎？對肖恩來說，這可能只是上次回應的延續。肖恩，你看，表現非常出色，很高興看到 2025 年總成本指引值大幅下降。

I just would like to see if you can share some color on how you see the sequential performance in the third quarter and the fourth quarter. The all-in cash cost in the second quarter $1,450 is slightly lower than the new the low end of the range that you provided. When we looked at the six months, you are at $1,336 per ton.

我只是想看看您是否可以分享您對第三季和第四季連續表現的看法。第二季的全部現金成本 1,450 美元略低於您提供的新範圍的低端。當我們回顧六個月時，價格是每噸 1,336 美元。

So again, is the new guidance a little bit conservative or because the lower gold production that I understood, you mentioned you might see in the second half of the year, it is prudent to have a new range that, again, fantastic decline, but would suggest maybe an increase from where you were in the second quarter.

那麼，新的指導方針是否有點保守，或者是因為據我了解，黃金產量較低，您提到您可能會在下半年看到這一情況，因此，謹慎的做法是設定一個新的範圍，再次出現大幅下降，但可能比第二季度的水平有所增加。

Thanks for your question, Carlos. I will start answering, and then I will hand over to Rogério to talk about the market aspects and the tests with our customers. So the briquettes line so far is stabilizing. So in July, we produced 40,000 tons, so which was our best mark in a month. We had the line down during the month of June to correct a few things that we believe were necessary.

謝謝你的提問，卡洛斯。我將開始回答，然後我將交給 Rogério 討論市場方面以及與我們的客戶進行的測試。因此，到目前為止，煤球生產線是穩定的。因此，7月份，我們的產量為40,000噸，這是我們一個月以來的最佳成績。我們在六月暫停了生產線，以糾正一些我們認為必要的問題。

And what we see is that the line will ramp up and also quality is improving on a daily basis. So we are confident that we'll come up -- that we are coming up with a product that will be helpful to our customers. So Rogerio, if you complement that.

我們看到的是生產線的產量不斷增加，而且品質也日益提高。因此，我們有信心，我們會推出一款對我們的客戶有幫助的產品。那麼 Rogerio，如果你補充一下的話。

Thank you, Carlos. On the briquettes side, Carlos, we have a lot of interest from our clients. We have a huge backlog of clients looking to test it. But let me give you the current status. We need to separate this between blast furnace briquettes and direct production briquettes. On the blast furnace briquettes, we have done more than 10 in the pre-industrial trials very successfully.

謝謝你，卡洛斯。卡洛斯，在煤球方面，我們的客戶非常感興趣。我們有大量積壓的客戶希望對其進行測試。但讓我告訴你目前的情況。我們需要將高爐煤球和直接生產煤球區分開來。關於高爐煤球，我們已經做了十多次預工業試驗，非常成功。

We have completed two full industrial trials, one of which actually getting to 100% of briquettes in the burden mix in a smaller blast furnace and another one achieving 50% of the burden mix with a larger blast furnace. I think what I can tell you is that the results were excellent in terms of productivity and in terms of coke rate better than running with pellets, right?

我們已經完成了兩次完整的工業試驗，其中一次在較小的高爐中實際上實現了爐料混合物中 100% 的煤球，另一次在較大的高爐中實現了爐料混合物中 50% 的煤球。我想我可以告訴你的是，就生產率而言，結果非常出色，而且焦炭率比使用球團運行更好，對嗎？

And we're now planning for -- still for this year, another two very large industrial price, which is the final product validation. Direct reduction, we have run -- I think we didn't have a chance to talk about this before, but we have run more than 10,000 basket tests with different clients around the globe, all basket tests have been extremely success -- most of it actually extremely successful with a very high metallization of the product, much better than actually in pellets.

我們現在仍在計劃今年的另外兩個非常大的工業價格，這是最終的產品驗證。直接還原，我們已經進行了——我想我們之前沒有機會談論這個問題，但我們已經與全球不同的客戶進行了超過 10,000 次籃式測試，所有籃式測試都非常成功——其中大多數實際上都非常成功，產品的金屬化程度非常高，比實際的顆粒要好得多。

And we also have had very good indication of productivity. This is one of the things that we've noticed, especially in direct reduction that the briquettes, because of its configuration, it's morphology, they actually yield a much higher productivity of the shot furnaces. We're now completing and going to larger industrial trials as well with selected clients. But upon confirmation of the results, we believe that this is going to be a real breakthrough for the industry.

而且我們的生產力指標也非常好。這是我們注意到的一件事，特別是在直接還原團塊時，由於其結構和形態，它們實際上可以提高噴丸爐的生產率。我們目前正在與選定的客戶一起完成並進行更大規模的工業試驗。但一旦結果得到確認，我們相信這將是該行業的一個真正的突破。

Yes. Carlos, it's Shaun. On your question on the second half, I know my Chief Operating Officer is online listening to this call and feeling the heat in the second half as we go into this. And I think I say that because clearly, each of our operations have stepped up and the performance you've seen to date is not isolated to just copper or nickel or just Salobo or, say, Ontario. We're seeing these opportunities across the board.

是的。卡洛斯，我是肖恩。關於你關於下半年的問題，我知道我的營運長正在網路上聽這個電話，並且在我們進入下半年時感受到了壓力。我之所以這麼說，是因為顯然我們的每項業務都取得了進步，而且迄今為止您所看到的表現並不局限於銅或鎳或薩洛博或安大略。我們全面地看到了這些機會。

I would caution that as you think about the second half, we are looking at more planned maintenance, which will impact volumes and obviously some cost in Q3. So you should think about H2 as being somewhat similar, but more back-end loaded. And I think the only other thing to frame is, bear in mind, we're ramping several operations right now.

我要提醒的是，當您考慮下半年時，我們正在考慮更多的計劃維護，這將影響銷量，顯然還會影響第三季的一些成本。因此，您應該認為 H2 有點類似，但後端負載更大。我認為唯一需要注意的是，請記住，我們現在正在增加幾項業務的力度。

And so we are factoring that into our risk assessments in the numbers we're putting out publicly. We've -- as we've just communicated, we just started the second furnace at Onca Puma. We are still in the midst through for the next many, many months for expansion at the underground in Voisey's Bay. And effectively, we're expanding production in our own mines in Sudbury in several of them.

因此，我們在公開發布的數字中將此因素納入了風險評估之中。正如我們剛才所說，我們剛剛啟動了 Onca Puma 的第二座熔爐。我們仍將在接下來的許多個月裡對沃伊斯灣的地下進行擴建。實際上，我們正​​在擴大位於薩德伯里的幾座礦場的產量。

We're aiming at 5.5 million tons this year through the mill. We'll be looking to take that to seven. There's a significant amount of development and work that's going through that. So we have really factored that in. I think the last bit of context, I mentioned before that the actions we've taken late last year and this year that we're identifying and delivering cost improvements, there is a lag between what we produce and what we sell.

我們今年的目標是產量達到 550 萬噸。我們希望將這個數字提高到七個。目前正在進行大量的開發和工作。所以我們確實已經考慮到了這一點。我認為最後一點背景，我之前提到過，我們去年年底和今年採取的行動是確定並實現成本改進，但我們生產的產品和銷售的產品之間存在滯後。

And so you're seeing that starting to manifest in this quarter with cost of goods sold. Our internal targets on what I mentioned earlier as project catalyst where we've identified and delivered in our forecast so far, about 340 million of improvement this year. We are internally continuing to push beyond those numbers, but we will only bake those into forecasts and actually communicate those later as indeed, we deliver as opposed to things that we have identified but yet have to succeed.

因此，您會看到這一現像在本季開始透過銷售成本體現出來。我們的內部目標是我之前提到的專案催化劑，到目前為止，我們已經在預測中確定並實現了今年約 3.4 億的改進。我們內部正在繼續努力超越這些數字，但我們只會將這些數字納入預測中，並在稍後進行實際溝通，因為事實上，我們實現了這些目標，而不是我們已經確定但必須成功的事情。

So to summarize, you should see more of this. It should be more back-end loaded. And as you'd appreciate in this industry with this volatility, it's essential that we are as productive as we can be and is cost competitive, and that's our focus.

總而言之，您應該會看到更多這樣的內容。它應該加載更多的後端。正如您所理解的，在這個波動性很大的行業中，我們必須盡可能地提高生產力並保持成本競爭力，這就是我們的重點。

Rafael Barcellos, Bradesco BBI.

拉斐爾·巴塞洛斯，布拉德斯科 BBI。

My first question is for Rogerio. Rogerio, it would be interesting to understand how the new volumes from Capanema and even from the sales new project will change your overall commercial strategy? And then -- and my second question is really about your views on the iron ore markets. I mean, despite the fact that we are dealing with several macro uncertainties, key data points remain very solid for iron ore and steel, with steel prices and margins increasing in recent months.

我的第一個問題是針對羅傑裡奧的。羅傑裡奧，了解卡帕內瑪的新銷售以及新項目的銷售將如何改變您的整體商業策略將會很有趣嗎？然後——我的第二個問題實際上是關於您對鐵礦石市場的看法。我的意思是，儘管我們正在應對一些宏觀不確定性，但鐵礦石和鋼鐵的關鍵數據點仍然非常穩固，近幾個月鋼鐵價格和利潤率都在上升。

So I just wanted to hear your thoughts on the second half for iron ore markets. particularly what are you seeing in terms of demand trends for the second half?

所以我只是想聽聽您對下半年鐵礦石市場的看法。特別是您對下半年的需求趨勢有何看法？

Thank you, Rafael. Let me start with the second one, which is the global outlook. And then I'll talk specifically about the new volumes from Capanema and (technical difficulty). When you look into the world global steel market, it's still volatile as some of you just pointed out. But we feel it's more stable after the intense rounds of tariff negotiations.

謝謝你，拉斐爾。我先從第二個方面談，即全球展望。然後我會具體談談卡帕內瑪的新書和（技術難度）。當你觀察全球鋼鐵市場時，你會發現它仍然很不穩定，正如一些人剛才指出的那樣。但我們感覺，經過幾輪激烈的關稅談判後，情況會更加穩定。

If we divide this in China and ex China, just in China, I think you all might have seen the recent reports from the Politburo meeting suggesting mild economic incentives. And this is because in the first half of 2025, the Chinese government has achieved a GDP growth over 5%. So this is -- we don't expect a lot of change but mild incentives.

如果我們將其劃分為中國境內和中國境外，僅在中國，我想大家可能已經看到了最近政治局會議的報告，其中提出了溫和的經濟激勵措施。這是因為2025年上半年中國政府已經實現了5%以上的GDP成長。所以這是——我們並不期望有太大的變化，但會有一些溫和的激勵。

Secondly, I think they also emphasized industry capacity rationalization under the anti-evolution policy, which affects still. I think some might think this is negative for us, but quite on the contrary, what happens is the mills which are left outstanding, they were probably going to have higher margins. With higher margins, they will need more productivity. And with more productivity, they will need higher quality ores.

其次，我認為他們在反進化政策下也強調了產業產能合理化，這仍然有影響。我想有些人可能認為這對我們不利，但恰恰相反，那些未完成的工廠可能會有更高的利潤率。利潤率越高，他們就越需要提高生產力。隨著生產力的提高，他們需要更高品質的礦石。

And that actually is very positive for us in Vale specifically. More specifically looking to the Chinese steel mill and starting with crude steel production, one may see that according to the National Bureau of Statistics in China, crude steel production has declined by 3% year-on-year. But here is the caveat. When we look into pig iron production, which is the steel which is produced with iron ore, the decline has been only of 0.8%.

這對我們淡水河谷來說確實是一個非常正面的影響。更具體地說明中國鋼廠，從粗鋼產量開始，我們可以看到，根據中國國家統計局的數據，粗鋼產量年減了 3%。但這裡有一個警告。當我們研究生鐵產量（即用鐵礦石生產的鋼材）時，降幅僅為 0.8%。

That indicates that the bulk of the crude steel decline has come from scrap-based electric arc furnaces. I think important to think that blast furnaces, the integrated processes are more competitive these days than the electric arc furnaces when one factors in the demand for seaborne iron ore. I think other than that, the more traditional indicator did not offer much of a surprise when you look into fixed asset investments, steel mills profitability or even steel inventory.

這顯示粗鋼產量下降大部分來自於廢鋼電弧爐。我認為，當考慮到海運鐵礦石的需求時，高爐和綜合製程如今比電弧爐更具競爭力。我認為除此之外，當你查看固定資產投資、鋼廠盈利能力甚至鋼鐵庫存時，更傳統的指標並沒有帶來太多驚喜。

I think there was no surprise there. I think there has been not much change into the Chinese market. Regarding iron ore still in China, I think still very stable from what we've seen in the past, imports of iron ore. I don't know, inventory imports hanging around 140 million tons. So no real surprise. I think the point to highlight here is the ex-China, and that connects a bit with the previous question on pellets.

我認為這並不令人意外。我認為中國市場沒有太大的變化。至於中國境內的鐵礦石，從我們過去看到的情況來看，我認為鐵礦石進口量仍然非常穩定。我不知道，庫存進口量約1.4億噸。所以並不奇怪。我認為這裡要強調的一點是中國以外，這與之前關於顆粒的問題有點關聯。

The exports coming out of China, which we forecast will exceed 100 million tons for this year are impacting negatively crude steel production and productivity requirements to that extent outside of China. But what I would like to highlight on the positive side is India. India crude steel production has increased by about -- by over 9% this year, which is very significant.

我們預測今年中國的出口量將超過 1 億噸，這將對中國以外的粗鋼生產和生產力需求產生負面影響。但我想強調的正面積極的一面是印度。印度粗鋼產量今年成長了約9%以上，這一增幅非常顯著。

And that's a lot of iron ore from India, which was going to the seaboard market is actually coming out. And more importantly, India is opening up for imports, especially for our kind of ores which are very complementary to their ore in terms of chemistry, in terms of size distribution. So this year, we anticipate that we will be selling to India more than 10 million tons. And we expect to grow this over the next years as we partner with some of the Chinese players.

大量來自印度的鐵礦石原本要進入沿海市場，但現在卻流出。更重要的是，印度正在開放進口，特別是我們的礦石，這些礦石在化學性質和尺寸分佈方面與印度的礦石非常互補。因此，我們預計今年向印度的銷售量將超過 1,000 萬噸。隨著我們與一些中國企業合作，我們預計未來幾年這一數字將會成長。

All in all, I think the way we look at it is despite the volatility that I mentioned in the beginning is that the global iron ore market is balanced. To your second question, I think it's a very good one. Capanema and (technical difficulty) will be part of a broader portfolio design. When we look into how we define products, market regions to sell, marketing channels, Capanema and (technical difficulty) will be integrated into the broader supply chain, and we'll define how to better allocate it.

總而言之，我認為儘管我在開始時提到了波動，但我們認為全球鐵礦石市場是平衡的。對於你的第二個問題，我認為這是一個非常好的問題。卡帕內瑪和（技術難度）將成為更廣泛的投資組合設計的一部分。當我們研究如何定義產品、銷售市場區域、行銷管道時，卡帕內瑪和（技術難度）將被整合到更廣泛的供應鏈中，我們將定義如何更好地分配它。

So depending obviously on steel margins, depending on premiums. So this is part of the broader portfolio optimization.

因此，顯然取決於鋼鐵利潤和保費。所以這是更廣泛的投資組合優化的一部分。

Caio Greiner, UBS.

瑞銀的 Caio Greiner。

So two questions on iron ore. The first one on the production outlook, it's actually great to see the higher production coming in, Capanema and Brucutu and the Northern Range are also performing quite well. But I mean, production growth year-to-date has been quite low, right? So I just wanted to get an update from you on the ramp-up expectations of your multiple assets looking into the second half of the year and into 2026. You're arguably tracking in line with your 2025 guidance.

關於鐵礦石有兩個問題。第一個關於產量前景的問題是，很高興看到產量不斷增加，卡帕內瑪、布魯庫圖和北部山脈的表現也相當不錯。但我的意思是，今年迄今為止的產量增長相當低，對嗎？因此，我只是想從您那裡了解對今年下半年和 2026 年多項資產的成長預期。可以說，您正在按照 2025 年的指導方針進行追蹤。

But for 2026, the question is, I mean, it implies a 20 million-ton growth when you think about the midrange. So I just wanted to hear from you if you remain confident on your 340 million to 360 million tons guidance, which again implies a relevant growth from where we are. And is that Vale's plan under pretty much any iron ore price scenario?

但對於 2026 年來說，問題是，當你考慮中間值時，它意味著 2000 萬噸的成長。因此，我只是想聽聽您的意見，您是否仍然對 3.4 億至 3.6 億噸的目標充滿信心，這再次意味著我們將實現相對增長。這是否是淡水河谷在任何鐵礦石價格情境下的計畫？

Or could we see lower depending on market conditions. If we see iron ore prices moving to $90 per ton next year, for example, is this still going to be with the level of production that we should be looking at? And the second one, which is also related, but on the caves decree, just wanted to get an update from you in terms of how the conversations and engagement with the government has been evolving in recent months. It's arguably taking longer than expected.

或者我們可能會看到更低的水平，這取決於市場狀況。例如，如果我們看到明年鐵礦石價格升至每噸 90 美元，這是否仍將達到我們應該關注的生產水準？第二個問題也與此相關，但與洞穴法令有關，我只是想從您那裡了解一下最近幾個月與政府的對話和接觸的進展。可以說，它花費的時間比預期的要長。

So I wanted to get this update and also hear from you if Vale is already working with the possibility of not getting this decree and what could be the eventual implications for the company if that's the case?

所以我想了解一下最新情況，也想聽聽您是否已經在考慮不執行這項法令的可能性，如果真是這樣，最終會對公司產生什麼影響？

So regarding the new projects, Capanema and Vargem Grande, they continue to ramp up as planned. So to give you numbers at Capanema, we have already produced a little bit more than 1 million tons. And as a matter of fact, we are ahead of schedule in our ramp-up curve in Capanema. At Vargem Grande, we are slightly below our ramp-up curve.

因此，就新項目 Capanema 和 Vargem Grande 而言，它們將繼續按計劃推進。給你看一下卡帕內瑪的數據，我們已經生產了略多於 100 萬噸的牛奶。事實上，我們在卡帕內瑪的提升曲線已經提前完成了計畫。在 Vargem Grande，我們的成長曲線略低於預期。

But all in all, we remain confident that we will achieve the 325, 335 guidance for 2025. As far as 2026 is concerned, we remain also confident that the 340 to 360 guidance is achievable and will provide a more accurate number during the Vale day later in the year. On the CapEx decrease, I will hand over now to Gustavo that will talk about it.

但總而言之，我們仍有信心實現 2025 年 325、335 的目標。就 2026 年而言，我們仍然相信 340 至 360 的指導目標是可以實現的，並將在今年稍後的淡水河谷日期間提供更準確的數字。關於資本支出減少的問題，我現在將交給 Gustavo 討論。

Caio, Gustavo here. Just to complement on the prior one, and then I'll talk about the caves. But we'll continue to play value over volume as we always did, right? Remember last year, Q4, we removed 8 million tons from the market because it didn't make sense for us to place those volumes. So we'll continue to be highly disciplined.

Caio，我是 Gustavo。為了補充前一個，然後我將談論洞穴。但我們會像往常一樣繼續重視價值而不是數量，對嗎？記得去年第四季度，我們從市場上撤出了 800 萬噸，因為投放這些數量對我們來說沒有意義。因此我們將繼續嚴格自律。

I think one of the beauties of Vale vis-a-vis competitors is that we can bring projects online with substantially lower capital intensity. If you look at Capanema, Vargem Grande, the ones we brought, it is probably a 1/4 of a typical capital intensity that you're going to see in a similar iron ore projects globally. So that allows us, for example, to operate with a CapEx level that is substantially lower than our competitors, freeing up free cash flow to our shareholders.

我認為淡水河谷相對於競爭對手的優勢之一是，我們可以以顯著較低的資本強度上線專案。如果你看一下我們引進的 Capanema、Vargem Grande 等項目，你會發現它們的資本密集度可能只有全球類似鐵礦石項目的典型資本密集度的 1/4。例如，這使我們能夠以遠低於競爭對手的資本支出水準運營，從而為股東釋放自由現金流。

I think that's something that is always very important to remind and. But bringing those projects makes sense because it does bring us more flexibility to play value over volume as we go along, and Rogerio highlighted some of those benefits today. On the caves decree, look, we are hopeful we'll continue to monitor. It's certainly an initiative that is led by the government.

我認為這一點始終是需要提醒的非常重要的。但引入這些項目是有意義的，因為它確實為我們帶來了更大的靈活性，讓我們在推進過程中發揮價值而不是數量的作用，Rogerio 今天強調了其中的一些好處。關於洞穴法令，看，我們希望能夠繼續監測。這無疑是一項由政府主導的舉措。

What we would like to say is that -- if you look in the last couple of years, we've taken a lot of actions internally to improve the way we process the license, the way we prepare ourselves for the licensing process in terms of anticipating some of those issues. We also work very closely with the environmental bodies at the state and federal levels.

我們想說的是——如果你回顧過去幾年，你會發現我們在內部採取了很多措施來改進我們處理許可證的方式，以及我們在預測許可證流程中的一些問題方面所做的準備。我們也與州和聯邦層級的環境機構密切合作。

And if we look at the status today is that the licensing process for Vale projects have improved vis-a-vis where we were two years ago. And you're seeing this as part of the operational stability of the company. We think we can improve even further by modernizing the caves decree, and that's what we are working and hopeful that we can have as an outcome.

如果我們看看今天的狀況，我們會發現淡水河谷計畫的許可流程與兩年前相比有所改善。您會將此視為公司營運穩定性的一部分。我們認為，透過對洞穴法令進行現代化改造，我們可以取得更大的進步，這就是我們正在努力的方向，我們希望能夠取得成果。

To your question on, are we prepared for a new caves decree scenario? Yes, the team and ourselves, we continue to work under any scenario, even under a new caves decree scenario, we will make sure that we deliver on our long-term targets and we're developing alternative plans as we go along to make sure we have a very resilient master plan and production plan.

對於您的問題，我們是否已為新的洞穴法令做好準備？是的，團隊和我們自己，在任何情況下都會繼續工作，即使在新的洞穴法令情況下，我們也將確保實現我們的長期目標，並且我們正在製定替代計劃，以確保我們有一個非常有彈性的總體規劃和生產計劃。

Caio Ribeiro, Bank of America.

卡約·裡貝羅，美國銀行。

So my first question is on copper. It's pretty clear that the company is focused on extracting growth from projects in Brazil like Bacaba, (technical difficulty) and Cristalino, among others. And these, they tend to be smaller deposits especially in comparison to Hu'u in Indonesia, right? So I just wanted to see if you could provide some color as to what drives that preference to develop several relatively smaller deposits as opposed to focusing on one larger project like Hu'u in Indonesia.

我的第一個問題是關於銅的。很明顯，該公司專注於從巴西的專案中獲得成長，例如 Bacaba（技術難度）和 Cristalino 等。而這些礦床往往規模較小，尤其是與印尼的 Hu'u 礦床相比，對嗎？因此，我只是想看看您是否可以提供一些信息，說明是什麼促使人們傾向於開發幾個相對較小的礦床，而不是專注於像印度尼西亞的 Hu'u 這樣的大型項目。

And possibly even under a JV structure, right, to mitigate the execution risk of developing a larger project, similar to what other miners have been doing. And then secondly, on Thompson, if you could discuss how the strategic review of that asset is going what would be the preferred avenue to explore with this asset? And if whatever option is chosen with Thompson, if that could be an indication of future plans with other assets in Canada?

甚至可能在合資結構下，以減輕開發更大專案的執行風險，類似於其他礦業公司一直在做的事情。其次，關於湯普森，如果您可以討論該資產的策略審查進展如何，那麼探索該資產的首選途徑是什麼？如果湯普森選擇的任何方案，是否可能預示著未來在加拿大其他資產的計劃？

Some good questions. So firstly, on the copper side, I wouldn't think of these things as a bipolar choice. Like it's -- I'm only going to do big or I'm only going to do small. I think you have to be focused on value. And if you -- and execution. So if you think of the sector, I do believe the data will show that the sector's ability to deliver new projects has been pretty bad. And I think the capital overruns, particularly on large projects has been in the order on average of about 40%.

一些很好的問題。因此，首先，就銅而言，我不會認為這些東西是雙極選擇。就像──我只要做大事或只要做小事。我認為你必須關注價值。如果你——和執行。因此，如果你考慮這個行業，我確實相信數據會顯示該行業交付新項目的能力相當差。我認為資本超支，特別是大型專案的資本超支平均約為 40%。

And so when we look at our best way to unlock copper growth and create value, we heard from Gustavo earlier on the capital intensity of Bacaba, it's quite clear that we've got regional presence we've had for decades there. We have infrastructure. We've got to know how we've got capability. So I think about risk as much as anything on our ability to deliver into that and what can we do by ways of returns.

因此，當我們尋找釋放銅礦成長和創造價值的最佳方式時，我們之前聽古斯塔沃談到了巴卡巴的資本強度，很明顯，我們已經在那裡擁有了幾十年的區域影響力。我們有基礎設施。我們必須知道我們如何擁有能力。因此，我考慮的風險與我們實現這一目標的能力以及我們可以透過回報做些什麼一樣多。

And so those projects that we're looking at, and I'll use Bacaba as an example because when I first arrived here in October, it would have been my second week, I looked at what was presented on that project. And it was a very different construct at that time with nearly double the capital intensity to what we've been able to do through working through that.

所以，對於我們正在研究的項目，我將以巴卡巴為例，因為當我十月份第一次來到這裡時，那應該是我的第二週，我查看了該項目所展示的內容。當時，這是一個非常不同的結構，其資本強度幾乎是我們透過這種方式所能做到的兩倍。

And we're seeing lots of opportunities as we look at (technical difficulty) and we look at Para as a whole. To look at these things in a way which is, are we best placed than some of these to build them ourselves. Are we like we've done elsewhere with Ero copper, better placed to partner? Or are we better placed to perhaps contract mine?

當我們審視（技術難度）並將 Para 視為一個整體時，我們看到了很多機會。從這個角度來看這些事情，我們是否最好自己建造它們。我們是否像在其他地方與 Ero 銅礦合作一樣，更適合成為合作夥伴？或者我們更適合感染這種疾病？

And I guess my point is we have to look at this as both miners and investors to find the best path forward. We've just finished our life of business planning. We're going to evolve that. We're seeing opportunities to significantly improve, I think, the risk profile and the economics, and that's something we'll talk about more at Vale day. So stay tuned.

我的觀點是，我們必須以礦工和投資者的身份來看待這個問題，以找到最佳的前進道路。我們剛剛結束了我們的商業規劃生涯。我們將進一步改進這一點。我認為，我們看到了顯著改善風險狀況和經濟狀況的機會，我們將在淡水河谷日進一步討論這個問題。敬請關注。

But I do think you shouldn't underestimate both the capital intensity, the risk and the value potential of that district in there, and that's the reason we're focusing on that. The Hu'u, I mentioned earlier in the year, we initiated that strategic review. And one of the possibilities exactly what you said. It could be a some sort of joint venture from a risk and reward basis.

但我確實認為你不應該低估該地區的資本強度、風險和價值潛力，這就是我們關注這一點的原因。我在今年稍早提到過，我們啟動了那項策略審查。其中一種可能性正是您所說的。從風險和回報角度來看，這可能是某種合資企業。

It would be inappropriate or premature to sort of foreshadow where we're going to get to. And we will certainly communicate where we've got to with that review, which is in advanced stage now in the back half of this year. But just to remind us of what we're talking about, 300,000 to 400,000 tons of copper over 400,000 ounces of gold first half of the cost curve, give or take $5 billion or so and nearly half a century of life. You don't get off assets like that every day.

預測我們將會達到什麼程度是不合適或為時過早的。我們一定會溝通審查的進度，審查目前已在今年下半年進入後期階段。但只是為了提醒我們，我們正在談論什麼，30 萬到 40 萬噸銅加上 40 萬盎司黃金，成本曲線的前半部分，大約需要 50 億美元左右，使用壽命將近半個世紀。你不會每天都擺脫這樣的資產。

Obviously, there's a lot of work to do, and we'll communicate that at the right time. We have not built that into the guidance or in the projections that we shared at Vale day, but it's clearly an intrinsically valuable asset. So just to summarize, we can walk and chew gum. We are looking at these things as investors and portfolio managers as much as we are as miners.

顯然，還有很多工作要做，我們會在適當的時候傳達這一點。我們還沒有將其納入淡水河谷日分享的指導或預測中，但它顯然是一種具有內在價值的資產。總而言之，我們可以邊走邊嚼口香糖。我們作為投資者和投資組合經理，以及礦工，都在關注這些事情。

And I think the themes that you've drawn out are very consistent with how we're trying to grow copper not just in Para, but in general. On Thompson, we, at around a similar time, initiated that review. It's at an advanced stage. We are still looking at multiple futures in there, and we'll look to communicate where we get to on that because it will be inappropriate commercially to update you at this stage, but we should be able to update you in the next quarter.

我認為您提出的主題與我們不僅在帕拉，而且在整個地區努力發展銅礦的方針非常一致。關於湯普森，我們在大約同一時間啟動了審查。目前已進入後期階段。我們仍在考慮其中的多種未來，我們將就此進行溝通，因為從商業角度來看，現階段向您更新資訊是不合適的，但我們應該能夠在下個季度向您更新資訊。

That's progressing well. I just want to attribute to my GM and the teams there who have had to deal with devastating wildfires in the province and have done a remarkable job of safety leadership and keeping both employees and communities safe. But that's well advanced and is on track. And I think you shouldn't read across necessarily any one action from a portfolio optimization point of view, whether it's Thompson or others. (technical difficulty) Thompson has a huge endowment. It's one of the assets that is not polymetallic.

一切進展順利。我只想感謝我的總經理和那裡的團隊，他們不得不應對該省毀滅性的野火，並且在安全領導和保護員工和社區安全方面做得非常出色。但這項工作進展順利，並且正在按計劃進行。我認為你不應該從投資組合優化的角度來解讀任何一個行動，無論是湯普森還是其他人的行動。（技術難題）湯普森擁有龐大的捐款。它屬於非多金屬資產之一。

We're looking to optimize our portfolio and our capital allocation, and we're continuing to look beyond these to see what are the right things to do with our project portfolio, our exploration portfolio and our assets before. Our focus now is on optimizing each asset in the portfolio.

我們正在尋求優化我們的投資組合和資本配置，我們將繼續著眼於這些之外，看看如何正確地處理我們的專案組合、勘探組合和資產。我們現在的重點是優化投資組合中的每項資產。

This concludes today's question-and-answer session. Vale's conference is now concluded. We thank you for your participation and wish you a nice day.

今天的問答環節到此結束。淡水河谷的會議現已結束。我們感謝您的參與並祝您有個愉快的一天。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中的英文陳述是由現場翻譯人員宣讀的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。