Sea Ltd (SE) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and good evening to all, and welcome to the Sea Limited second-quarter-2024 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) And finally, I would like to advise all participants that the call is being recorded. Thank you.

大家早安，晚上好，歡迎參加 Sea Limited 2024 年第二季業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）最後，我想通知所有參與者，通話正在錄音。謝謝。

I'd now like to welcome Mr. M.C. Koh to begin the conference. Please go ahead.

現在我要歡迎 M.C. 先生。 Koh 宣布會議開始。請繼續。

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Sea's 2024-second-quarter earnings conference call. I am M.C., Sea's Investor Relations Director. On this call, we may make forward-looking statements, which are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties and may not be realized in the future for various reasons as stated in our press release.

大家好，歡迎參加 Sea 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。我是 M.C.，Sea 的投資者關係總監。在這次電話會議中，我們可能會做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述本身就存在風險和不確定性，並且可能由於我們新聞稿中所述的各種原因而在未來無法實現。

Also, this call includes a discussion of certain non-GAAP financial measures, such as the EBITDA. We believe these measures can enhance our investors' understanding of the actual cash flows of our major businesses when used as a complement to our GAAP disclosures. For a discussion of the use of non-GAAP financial measures and reconciliations to the closest GAAP measures, please refer to the section on non-GAAP financial measures in our press release.

此外，本次電話會議也討論了某些非公認會計準則財務指標，例如 EBITDA。我們相信，這些措施可以增強投資者對我們主要業務實際現金流量的理解，作為我們公認會計準則揭露的補充。有關非 GAAP 財務指標的使用以及與最接近的 GAAP 指標的調整的討論，請參閱我們新聞稿中有關非 GAAP 財務指標的部分。

I have with me Sea's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Forrest Li; President, Chris Feng; and Chief Financial Officer, Tony Hou. Our management will share strategy and business updates, operating highlights and financial performance for the second quarter of 2024. This will be followed by a Q&A session in which we welcome any questions you have.

與我同行的有 Sea 董事長兼執行長 Forrest Li；總裁，克里斯·馮；和首席財務官托尼·侯。我們的管理層將分享 2024 年第二季的策略和業務更新、營運亮點和財務業績。

With that, let me turn it over to Forrest.

那麼，讓我把它交給福雷斯特。

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining today's call. I'm happy to report that it has been a solid quarter for us with our strong momentum from Q1 continuing into Q2. All three of our businesses have shown both strong growth and higher profitability.

大家好，感謝您參加今天的電話會議。我很高興地向大家報告，對我們來說，這是一個堅實的季度，我們從第一季一直延續到第二季​​度的強勁勢頭。我們的所有三項業務都表現出強勁的成長和更高的獲利能力。

Before I dive into each business results, I wanted to share some observations of our Southeast Asia market. Generally, retail and consumer spending trends in the region have remained healthy with domestic consumption continuing to be a main driver of economic performance in many markets. This sets a very strong micro foundation for our e-commerce business.

在深入探討每一項業務成果之前，我想先分享一些對我們東南亞市場的觀察。總體而言，該地區的零售和消費者支出趨勢保持健康，國內消費仍然是許多市場經濟表現的主要驅動力。這為我們的電子商務業務奠定了非常強大的微觀基礎。

We are happy with Shopee's market share in Southeast Asia and our sizable lead over our peers in the region. We are seeing more market share consolidation and the industry-wide take rate increase. We believe this will move the industry towards profitability and sustainability, and we welcome this trend.

我們對 Shopee 在東南亞的市場份額以及相對於該地區同行的巨大領先地位感到滿意。我們看到更多的市佔率整合和全行業的佔有率上升。我們相信這將推動行業實現盈利和可持續發展，我們歡迎這一趨勢。

With the strong results delivered in the first half and our outlook for the rest of the year, we expect that Shopee will become adjusted EBITDA positive from the third quarter. We are also revising up our guidance for Shopee's 2024 full year GMV growth rate to the mid-20s. With that, let me take you through each business performance in more detail. Starting with e-commerce.

憑藉著上半年的強勁業績以及我們對今年剩餘時間的展望，我們預計 Shopee 從第三季開始調整後 EBITDA 將為正值。我們也將 Shopee 2024 年全年 GMV 成長率的指引上調至 20 左右。接下來，讓我帶您更詳細地了解每項業務績效。從電子商務開始。

As we have shared before, shopping operational priorities are to deepen our competitive moats on three fronts, enhancing our price competitiveness, improving service quality to customers and strengthening our content ecosystem. This strategy is paying off. Over the past two quarters, Shopee has been able to post healthy sustainable growth while also improving its profit profile. One area we are placing greater focus on is improving our ad take rate.

正如我們先前所分享的，購物營運的首要任務是在三個方面深化我們的競爭護城河：增強我們的價格競爭力、提高對客戶的服務品質以及加強我們的內容生態系統。這項策略正在取得成效。在過去的兩個季度中，Shopee 實現了健康的可持續成長，同時也改善了其利潤狀況。我們更加關注的一個領域是提高廣告投放率。

Currently, our ad take rate is lower than the industry average we observed in more mature e-commerce markets. To us, this represents a good opportunity to improve our monetization. Over the quarter, we have made it easier and more attractive for sellers to join our ad platform. We also have a dedicated tech team working on improving our ad bidding algorithms to help sellers achieve higher returns from their advertising spend. So far, the results have been encouraging.

目前，我們的廣告投放率低於我們在更成熟的電子商務市場中觀察到的行業平均值。對我們來說，這是提高獲利能力的好機會。在本季度，我們讓賣家更容易、更有魅力地加入我們的廣告平台。我們還有一個專門的技術團隊致力於改進我們的廣告競價演算法，以幫助賣家從廣告支出中獲得更高的回報。到目前為止，結果令人鼓舞。

The number of sellers who pay for ads has increased by more than 20% year on year this quarter. We believe there is still plenty of upside, and we'll continue to push on this front. We have also launched live ads across our Asian markets, allowing streamers, including both merchants and creators, to insert ads into Shopee lives. This feature has been very well received.

本季付費廣告的賣家數量較去年同期成長超過20%。我們相信仍有很大的上升空間，我們將繼續推動這方面的發展。我們也在亞洲市場推出了直播廣告，讓包括商家和創作者在內的主播將廣告插入 Shopee 生活中。這個功能很受歡迎。

In Indonesia in June, one in four active streamers paid for live ads. This feature helps streamers boost their sales efficiency while increasing our ad take rate, enhancing our content ecosystem and improving our live streaming unique economics.

六月在印度尼西亞，四分之一的活躍主播為直播廣告付費。此功能可協助主播提高銷售效率，同時提高我們的廣告投放率、增強我們的內容生態系統並改善我們的直播獨特經濟效益。

On improving our service quality to customers, our logistics capabilities continue to differentiate us. In this way, 50% of buyers in Java Indonesia cited faster delivery as the reason for choosing Shopee. We have continued to integrate more closely with our many logistics partners to widen our coverage and deliver packages faster. XPS Express, in particular, has managed to improve delivery speed while also reducing its costs.

在提高對客戶的服務品質方面，我們的物流能力繼續使我們脫穎而出。這樣一來，50%的印尼爪哇買家將更快的配送作為選擇Shopee的原因。我們繼續與眾多物流合作夥伴進行更緊密的整合，以擴大我們的覆蓋範圍並更快地交付包裹。尤其是 XPS Express，它成功地提高了遞送速度，同時也降低了成本。

In the second quarter, more than 70% of XPS express orders in Asia were delivered within three days of order placement with cost per order declining 8% year on year. Another initiative to enhance customer service quality has been improving the buyer return response process.

第二季度，亞洲超過70%的XPS快遞訂單在下單三天內送達，單單成本較去年同期下降8%。提高客戶服務品質的另一項措施是改善買家退貨回應流程。

Account pain point in e-commerce. Earlier this year, we launched a change of mind returns feature in our Asian market. Light buyers initiate no questions asked return within 15 days. We paired this with data-driven tax improvements to make the overall return refund process highly predictive and efficient. As a result, in the second quarter, more than half of our return and refund cases in Asia were resolved within one day.

電商帳戶痛點。今年早些時候，我們在亞洲市場推出了改變主意退貨功能。輕買家發起15天內無理由退貨。我們將其與數據驅動的稅收改進相結合，使整個退貨退款流程具有高度的預測性和效率。結果，第二季度，我們在亞洲的退貨和退款案例中有一半以上在一天內得到解決。

Meeting this process fast free makes buyers more willing to complete purchase, driving up user stickiness and repurchase frequency. In Malaysia, we saw a more than 10% increase in average basket size among buyers who raised change of mind return requests compared to before the feature was launched. I share these examples to demonstrate how we consistently execute on our operational priorities every quarter. We believe this approach will strengthen our market leadership in the long term. Next, turning to digital financial services.

快速免費滿足這個流程讓買家更願意完成購買，從而提高用戶粘性和復購頻率。在馬來西亞，與該功能推出之前相比，提出改變主意退貨請求的買家的平均購物籃尺寸增加了 10% 以上。我分享這些例子是為了展示我們如何在每個季度中一致地執行我們的營運優先事項。我們相信，從長遠來看，這種方法將加強我們的市場領導地位。接下來，轉向數位金融服務。

SeaMoney has continued its strong momentum in growing its loan book and profit while remaining prudent on risk management. Both revenue and adjusted EBITDA have grown very well year on year. Consumer and SME credit business continues to be the primary driver of SeaMoney's revenue and profit growth. We are making good progress on deepening our credit product penetration, both on shopping and off shopping. Our large shopping user base is a unique advantage. It enables us to acquire new customers very cost efficiently by promoting the right products at the right time to the right users.

SeaMoney 繼續保持貸款規模和利潤成長的強勁勢頭，同時在風險管理方面保持審慎。收入和調整後的 EBITDA 年成長都非常好。消費者和中小企業信貸業務仍然是SeaMoney收入和利潤成長的主要驅動力。我們在深化購物和網外信貸產品滲透方面取得了良好進展。我們龐大的購物用戶群是得天獨厚的優勢。它使我們能夠透過在正確的時間向正確的用戶推廣正確的產品，以非常經濟高效的方式獲得新客戶。

In the second quarter, we registered over 4 million first-time borrowers of our credit products, a figure that has more than doubled compared to one year ago. We have also expanded our off Shopee credit use cases. In Indonesia, we partnered with over 1,000 electronic stores to introduce customer mind SPayLater loans for mobile phone sales. We were the first player in the market to provide instant credit approval for this category at scale. We will continue to explore more credit use cases in our markets.

第二季度，我們的信貸產品首次借款人超過 400 萬，這一數字比一年前增加了一倍多。我們也擴大了 Shopee 以外的信用用例。在印度尼西亞，我們與 1,000 多家電子商店合作，推出客戶向 SPayLater 手機銷售貸款。我們是市場上第一個大規模提供此類類別即時信貸審批的參與者。我們將繼續在市場中探索更多信貸用例。

With all these efforts, we have grown our loan book size to $3.5 billion at the end of June, up almost 40% year on year. Notably, our nonperforming loans metric held steady at the end of the quarter. In fact, it improved slightly from the previous quarter. We now have 21 million consumers and SME loans active users, up almost 50% year on year.

經過所有這些努力，截至 6 月底，我們的貸款規模已增至 35 億美元，年增近 40%。值得注意的是，我們的不良貸款指標在本季末保持穩定。事實上，它比上一季略有改善。我們現在擁有2,100萬消費者和中小企業貸款活躍用戶，較去年同期成長近50%。

Looking forward, we will continue to invest in growing our user base efficiently and effectively as our markets are still underpenetrated and presents sizable opportunities. A large user base will be a cornerstone of future growth for SeaMoney, especially as we introduce more product offering. Finally, turning to our digital entertainment business.

展望未來，我們將繼續投資，以高效、有效地擴大我們的用戶群，因為我們的市場仍然滲透不足，並存在大量機會。龐大的用戶群將成為 SeaMoney 未來成長的基石，特別是當我們推出更多產品時。最後，轉向我們的數位娛樂業務。

Garena's two years of hard work undertaking a user-centric approach are paying off. We have delivered a strong quarter with more than 20% year-on-year growth in bookings, mainly contributed by Free Fire. At the end of June, Free Fire released a seventh anniversary version update, our largest in-game event of the year. We brought back classic weapons, made a commentary on Free Fire history and hosted a story war, where users could share their past experiences with the game. The campaign was very successful.

Garena 兩年來堅持以用戶為中心的努力正在得到回報。我們的季度業績表現強勁，預訂量年增超過 20%，這主要歸功於 Free Fire。六月底，Free Fire 發布了七週年版本更新，這是我們今年最大的遊戲內活動。我們帶回了經典武器，對《Free Fire》歷史進行了評論，並舉辦了故事大戰，讓用戶可以分享過去的遊戲經驗。這次活動非常成功。

Our players really enjoyed revisiting their fond memories of the game's early years. Free Fire's unique strength is its large, highly engaged loyal gamer base. I'm very proud to share that every single day throughout Q2, Free Fire has more than 100 million daily active players. This reinforces our conviction that Free Fire is an evergreen franchise.

我們的玩家非常喜歡重溫他們早年對遊戲的美好回憶。 Free Fire 的獨特優勢在於其龐大且高度參與的忠實玩家基礎。我非常自豪地告訴大家，第二季的每一天，Free Fire 都有超過 1 億的每日活躍玩家。這更加堅定了我們的信念：《Free Fire》是常青的特許經營權。

Free Fire also managed to keep growing, thanks to the strong word-of-mouth effect we see from our large user base. According to Sensor Tower, Free Fire was the most downloaded mobile game globally in the second quarter. Free Fire's organic social pool is highly valuable, especially in today's world, where are getting users to download and try new content can be hard and costly.

由於我們龐大的用戶群產生了強大的口碑效應，《Free Fire》也成功地實現了持續成長。據 Sensor Tower 稱，《Free Fire》是第二季全球下載次數最多的手機遊戲。 Free Fire 的有機社交池非常有價值，尤其是在當今世界，讓用戶下載和嘗試新內容可能很困難且成本高昂。

We are also excited about launching Need for Speed Mobile in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau later this year in partnership with Tencent and Electronic Arts. We are pleased to be able to bring this high-quality game with a classic IP to our gamer community. To conclude, we are happy with strong results the three businesses have achieved in the first half. Thank you, as always, for your support.

我們也很高興今年稍晚與騰訊和藝電合作在台灣、香港和澳門推出《極速快感》行動版。我們很高興能夠將這款具有經典IP的高品質遊戲帶到我們的遊戲玩家社群。總而言之，我們對上半年三項業務取得的強勁成果感到高興。一如既往地感謝您的支持。

Before I hand over the call, I'm pleased to announce that two new independent Directors have joined our Board. Dr. Silvio Savarese is a leading expert in AI, and Ms. Jessica Tan is a highly accomplished leader in financial services. I'm glad that Silvio and Jessica are waiting to lend us their deep expertise and guidance on these two areas, which will be critical in shaping Sea's future.

在我轉交電話之前，我很高興地宣布兩位新的獨立董事已加入我們的董事會。 Silvio Savarese 博士是人工智慧領域的領先專家，Jessica Tan 女士是金融服務領域卓有成就的領導者。我很高興 Silvio 和 Jessica 正在等待向我們提供他們在這兩個領域的深厚專業知識和指導，這對於塑造 Sea 的未來至關重要。

In addition, Tony will be stepping down from our Board and will continue to serve as our CFO. With these changes, our seven-member Board has the majority of independent directors. Thank you very much.

此外，托尼將辭去董事會職務，並繼續擔任我們的財務長。透過這些變化，我們的七名董事會成員中獨立董事佔了大多數。非常感謝。

With that, I invite Tony to discuss our financials.

接下來，我邀請托尼討論我們的財務狀況。

Thank you, Forrest, and thanks to everyone for joining the call. For Sea overall, total GAAP revenue increased 23% year on year to $3.8 billion in the second quarter of 2024. This was primarily driven by GMV growth of our e-commerce business and the growth of our digital financial services business. Our total adjusted EBITDA was $448 million in the second quarter of 2024, compared to an adjusted EBITDA of $510 million in the second quarter of 2023.

謝謝你，福雷斯特，也謝謝大家加入電話會議。對於 Sea 整體而言，2024 年第二季 GAAP 總營收年增 23%，達到 38 億美元。 2024 年第二季調整後 EBITDA 總額為 4.48 億美元，而 2023 年第二季調整後 EBITDA 為 5.1 億美元。

On e-commerce, Shopee's gross orders grew 40% and GMV increased by 29% year on year. Our second-quarter GAAP revenue of $2.8 billion included GAAP marketplace revenue of $2.5 billion, up 33% year on year and a product revenue of $0.3 billion. Within GAAP marketplace revenue, core marketplace revenue, mainly consisting of transaction-based fees and advertising revenues was $1.8 billion, up 41% year on year.

電商方面，Shopee總訂單量較去年同期成長40%，GMV較去年同期成長29%。我們第二季的 GAAP 營收為 28 億美元，其中 GAAP 市場營收為 25 億美元，年增 33%，產品營收為 3 億美元。在 GAAP 市場收入中，核心市場收入（主要包括以交易為基礎的費用和廣告收入）為 18 億美元，較去年同期成長 41%。

Value-added services revenue, mainly consisting of revenues related to logistic services, was $0.7 billion, up 16% year on year. E-commerce adjusted EBITDA improved quarter on quarter with losses narrowing to $9 million in the second quarter of 2024 compared to an adjusted EBITDA loss of $22 million in the first quarter of 2024, and an adjusted EBITDA of $150 million in the second quarter of 2023.

加值服務收入（主要包括物流服務相關收入）為7億美元，較去年同期成長16%。電子商務調整後EBITDA 環比有所改善，2024 年第二季調整後EBITDA 虧損收窄至900 萬美元，而2024 年第一季調整後EBITDA 虧損為2,200 萬美元，2023 年第二季調整後EBITDA 為1.5 億美元。

For our Asia markets, we continued to achieve positive adjusted EBITDA following our first quarter of 2024 results, recording $4 million during the quarter compared to an adjusted EBITDA of $204 million in the second quarter of 2023. In our other markets, the adjusted EBITDA loss was $30 million, narrowing meaningfully from last year when losses were $54 million.

對於亞洲市場，繼2024 年第一季業績之後，我們繼續實現正調整EBITDA，該季度錄得400 萬美元，而2023 年第二季調整後EBITDA 為2.04 億美元。 EBITDA 虧損虧損金額為 3,000 萬美元，較去年虧損 5,400 萬美元大幅收窄。

In Brazil, unit economics continue to improve as we achieved a positive contribution margin per order of $0.09 for the quarter as compared to a loss of $0.24 in the second quarter of 2023. Digital financial services GAAP revenue was up by 21% year on year to $519 million. Adjusted EBITDA was up by 20% year on year to $165 million.

在巴西，單位經濟效益持續改善，本季每訂單貢獻利潤率為 0.09 美元，而 2023 年第二季為虧損 0.24 美元。調整後 EBITDA 年成長 20%，達到 1.65 億美元。

As of the end of June, our consumer and SME loans principal outstanding reached $3.5 billion, almost 40% year on year and 8% quarter on quarter. Non-performing loans past due by more than 90 days as a percentage of total consumer and SME loans was 1.3% at the end of the quarter. Digital entertainment bookings were $537 million, up 21% year on year and 5% quarter on quarter. GAAP revenue was $436 million. Adjusted EBITDA was $303 million.

截至6月底，我們的消費和中小企業貸款本金餘額達到35億美元，年增近40%，季增8%。截至本季末，逾期超過 90 天的不良貸款佔消費和中小企業貸款總額的百分比為 1.3%。數位娛樂預訂額為 5.37 億美元，年增 21%，季增 5%。 GAAP 收入為 4.36 億美元。調整後 EBITDA 為 3.03 億美元。

Returning to our consolidated numbers. We recognized a net non-operating income of $56 million in the second quarter of 2024, compared to a net non-operating income of $108 million in the second quarter of 2023. We had a net income tax expense of $61 million in the second quarter of 2024 compared to net income tax expense of $62 million in the second quarter of 2023. As a result, net income was $80 million in the second quarter of 2024 as compared to net income of $331 million in the second quarter of 2023.

回到我們的綜合數字。我們在 2024 年第二季確認的非營業收入淨額為 5,600 萬美元，而 2023 年第二季的非營業收入淨額為 1.08 億美元。第二季的淨利為6,200 萬美元，而2023 年第二季的淨利為6,200 萬美元。億美元。

With that, let me turn the call to M.C.

現在，讓我把電話轉給 M.C.

Thank you, Forrest and Tony. We're now ready to open the call to questions. Operator?

謝謝你們，福雷斯特和托尼。我們現在準備開始提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Pang Vittayaamnuaykoon, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指令）Pang Vittayaamnuaykoon，高盛。

Two questions from my side, both on e-commerce. Number one, could you please comment on the latest competitive landscape you have observed. We are seeing all players, including yourself, push for further rationalization into third quarter, especially on the merchant front. How should this translate into your results and your updated guidance? In another word, what factors do you include in your revised guidance? That's question number one.

我這邊有兩個問題，都是關於電子商務的。第一，請您評論一下您觀察到的最新競爭格局。我們看到所有參與者，包括您自己，都在第三季度推動進一步的合理化，特別是在商家方面。這應該如何轉化為您的結果和更新的指導？換句話說，您修訂後的指導意見包含了哪些因素？這是第一個問題。

Question number two, specifically on margins. What type of near- and medium-term margins can we expect Shopee to deliver? And how do you plan to achieve that? Any update on long-term margin expectation as well?

第二個問題，特別是關於邊緣的問題。我們可以期望 Shopee 提供什麼類型的近期和中期利潤？您打算如何實現這個目標？長期利潤率預期有什麼更新嗎？

Yeah. On the competitive landscape, I think as Forrest mentioned in the opening, we do see a more stable competitive environment in the past few months. As you mentioned, we are positive movement in terms of the take rate from various players in our market. And I think we welcome that as signal of more stable environment for competition perspective. And our longer-term view on the profitability target stay unchanged as 2% to 3% of the EBITDA as we shared before.

是的。關於競爭格局，我認為正如福雷斯特在開場白中所提到的，我們確實在過去幾個月看到了更穩定的競爭環境。正如您所提到的，我們市場上各個參與者的採用率都在積極變化。我認為我們對此表示歡迎，認為這是競爭環境中更加穩定的訊號。我們對獲利目標的長期看法保持不變，即我們先前分享的 EBITDA 的 2% 至 3%。

However, we believe the market is still quite dynamic. And in the short term, we will likely, number one, focusing on the profitability of the businesses. We were, as we shared in our guidance in Q3, will be profitable as the Shopee businesses. But at the same time, we also like to grow as there's still a good potential in the market we operate in. We would like to make sure that as the businesses we can outgrow the market as well in the short term rather than maximizing the profit in the near term.

然而，我們相信市場仍然充滿活力。在短期內，我們可能會先關注企業的獲利能力。正如我們在第三季的指導中所分享的那樣，我們的 Shopee 業務將實現盈利。但同時，我們也希望成長，因為我們經營的市場仍有很大的潛力。

If we look a little bit to the medium term, we do expect the overall content landscape in our market to continue to evolve and continue to come into a more rational stage compared to where we are right now, which will drive the overall industry profitability to improve.

如果我們著眼於中期，我們確實預期市場的整體內容格局將繼續發展，並繼續進入比現在更理性的階段，這將推動整個產業的獲利能力提升。

The -- if you look at the overall market, as we mentioned, it's still rather dynamic with the more stable competitive environment. But there are things we can control -- there are things we cannot control. We were rather focusing on the things we can control for the things that we shared in the opening. We want to have better pricing. We would like to have better user experience.

如果你看看整個市場，正如我們所提到的，在更穩定的競爭環境下，它仍然相當活躍。但有些事情我們可以控制──有些事情我們無法控制。對於我們在開頭分享的事情，我們更關注我們可以控制的事情。我們希望有更好的定價。我們希望有更好的使用者體驗。

We would like to have a better content supply to our industries. Together with the larger scale of where we are right now compared to competitors, we will -- all those things will help us to always be better positioned to deliver better value to our consumers and ultimately have better unit economics, which will translate to the market share gain over time as well. I think that's how we probably see the market in the near term, midterm and the long terms.

我們希望為我們的行業提供更好的內容供應。與競爭對手相比，我們目前的規模更大，所有這些都將幫助我們始終處於更好的位置，為消費者提供更好的價值，並最終擁有更好的單位經濟效益，這將轉化為市場隨著時間的推移也分享收益。我認為這就是我們對近期、中期和長期市場的看法。

Piyush Choudhary, HSBC.

Piyush Choudhary，匯豐銀行。

Congrats to the management team on good results. Two questions again, both on e-commerce. As you mentioned earlier, you have been increasing take rates and the industry has also increased take rates during 1H. Is it possible to further increase the take rates? And are you able to reduce shipping subsidies? That's the first question.

恭喜管理團隊取得良好成績。又是兩個問題，都是關於電子商務的。正如您之前提到的，您一直在提高採用率，並且該行業在 1H 期間也提高了採用率。是否有可能進一步提高採納率？能減少運費補貼嗎？這是第一個問題。

Secondly, can you talk about the unit economics of live streaming business? Has it turned profitable now in some countries? How is the contribution margin for live stream segment?

其次，您能談談直播業務的單位經濟效益嗎？它現在在一些國家已經獲利了嗎？直播細分市場的貢獻率如何？

For the take rate, we do believe there are opportunity to further increase the take rate. I think part of that comes from commissions and fees. As probably observed, we do increase meaningfully in the past few quarters. I think there are still opportunity to further increase that, although probably not in the magnitude that we see in the early part of the year.

對於採用率，我們確實相信有機會進一步提高採用率。我認為其中一部分來自佣金和費用。正如可能觀察到的那樣，我們在過去幾個季度確實實現了有意義的成長。我認為仍有機會進一步增加，儘管可能不會達到我們在今年年初看到的幅度。

There's another part of take rate, which we think that is also having a sizable opportunity, is on the ads side. that as we shared in the opening, we do focus a lot on the ad side. We spent efforts on building infrastructure to the ad side in the past few quarters.

轉換率的另一部分是在廣告方面，我們認為這也有相當大的機會。正如我們在開場時分享的那樣，我們確實非常關注廣告方面。過去幾季我們在廣告方面的基礎建設上下了功夫。

For example, we built a standard platform for our recommendation and search. We also built a standard algorithm and platform for our ad system and organic traffic allocations, all those will help us to be able to allocate traffic more agile and more flexible and enable us to offer better ad product to the seller as well, which we are getting out in the next few quarters. We believe all those efforts will help us on the ad take rate improvement in the coming quarters.

例如，我們為推薦和搜尋建立了一個標準平台。我們還為我們的廣告系統和自然流量分配建立了標準的演算法和平台，所有這些都將幫助我們能夠更敏捷、更靈活地分配流量，並使我們能夠為賣家提供更好的廣告產品，我們正在在接下來的幾個季度內退出。我們相信所有這些努力將有助於我們在未來幾季提高廣告投放率。

On the UE pool for live stream, we do see UE improvement quarter on quarter. And actually, if you look at all markets, some markets are possible, some markets are still improving. But I think, generally, we believe the trend will continue in terms of the improvement for our live stream businesses.

在直播的 UE 池中，我們確實看到 UE 逐季度有所改善。事實上，如果你看看所有市場，有些市場是可能的，有些市場仍在改善。但我認為，總的來說，我們相信這種趨勢將繼續改善我們的直播業務。

Marissa Putri, UBS.

瑪麗莎·普特里，瑞銀。

I have two questions. Firstly, on e-commerce. So you just reported your first CM positive from Brazil, and I think still with ambitions to be number two in the market. How do you plan in achieving this? Should we think of the improved profitability as sustainable?

我有兩個問題。首先，關於電子商務。所以你剛剛報告了來自巴西的第一個 CM 陽性，我認為仍然有雄心壯志成為市場上的第二名。您打算如何實現這個目標？我們是否應該認為獲利能力的提升是可持續的？

And number two is just to make sure that I'm getting your guidance correctly. So the adjusted EBITDA positive will be just for standalone Q3 EBITDA, but not overall nine-months EBITDA positive in Q3?

第二就是確保我正確地得到你的指導。那麼調整後的 EBITDA 正值僅適用於獨立的第三季 EBITDA，而不是第三季整體 9 個月的 EBITDA 正值？

For the Brazil businesses, we are very happy about the improvement on the margins in the market. As we shared in the earnings, the contribution margin for the Brazil market is positive already. And we also see there is a good potential in Brazil market. The core for us in Brazil is, I think, number one, we are able to consistently reduce our shipping cost in the market through our own logic network.

對於巴西企業來說，我們對市場利潤的改善感到非常高興。正如我們分享的收益一樣，巴西市場的邊際貢獻已經是正值。我們也看到巴西市場有很大的潛力。我認為，我們在巴西的核心是第一，我們能夠透過自己的邏輯網路持續降低市場上的運輸成本。

Number two is we're also improving the user experience in the market finally over the past quarters. I think in combination, it drives better user retention and also better economics to our market. The other thing that's important for our Brazil market besides the user experience and the economic improvement is the ability for us to increase penetration of the higher basket category over time. We do believe that we have a sizable potential then to further increase our market share penetration to those categories.

第二，在過去的幾個季度中，我們最終也改善了市場上的使用者體驗。我認為綜合起來，它可以提高用戶保留率，並為我們的市場帶來更好的經濟效益。除了使用者體驗和經濟改善之外，對我們的巴西市場來說另一件重要的事情是我們有能力隨著時間的推移提高較高購物籃類別的滲透率。我們確實相信，我們有巨大的潛力進一步提高我們在這些類別中的市佔率滲透率。

Traditionally, we are not as strong as compared to some other players in the market. So with all that, we do feel that there's a meaningful potential for us to grow further in Brazil market, and we can see the levers that we have, and we are working on those levers.

傳統上，與市場上的其他一些參與者相比，我們的實力並不強。綜上所述，我們確實認為我們在巴西市場有進一步成長的巨大潛力，我們可以看到我們擁有的槓桿，並且我們正在努力利用這些槓桿。

In terms of the EBITDA guidance, I think we referred to the third quarter EBITDA part there. I think the understanding is correct on that.

就 EBITDA 指導而言，我認為我們指的是第三季 EBITDA 部分。我認為這一點的理解是正確的。

Alicia Yap, Citigroup.

艾莉西亞葉 (Alicia Yap)，花旗集團。

Two questions. First, can management share the update under progress of acquiring on the non-shopping platform user for the DFS and the GTV growth for the non-shopping platform. Will this move from offline transactions like those offline retailers, the restaurant partners? Or is Sea actually will be open to work with any online partners, including, for example, the online travel agents? So this is for the DFS question.

兩個問題。首先，管理階層能否分享一下DFS非購物平台用戶獲取進度以及非購物平台GTV成長。這是否會從線下交易轉移到線下零售商、餐廳合作夥伴等？還是 Sea 實際上願意與任何線上合作夥伴（包括線上旅行社）合作？這是 DFS 問題。

Second question is related to Shopee Express. So how are we going to further optimize the operation efficiency and also further improve the cost structure for the logistics business in the coming quarters?

第二個問題與Shopee Express有關。那麼未來幾季物流業務如何進一步優化營運效率、進一步改善成本結構呢？

On the first question, if you look at our credit loan portfolio, there are a few components of that. We have Shopee pay later, which is very much quite connected to Shopee, the SPayLater, as we call it. It's used as Shopee transactions. Besides that, we have buy cash flow, which is a cash flow that's not related to Shopee. Anyone can take a loan from it.

關於第一個問題，如果你看看我們的信用貸款組合，你會發現其中有幾個組成部分。我們有 Shopee Pay Later，它與 Shopee（我們稱之為 SPayLater）密切相關。它用作 Shopee 交易。除此之外，我們還有購買現金流，這是與 Shopee 無關的現金流。任何人都可以從中獲得貸款。

And on top of that, we also have the offline payment through SPayLater. And the same SPaylater that can be used offline can also be used online through a Shopee Pay acquiring network. Besides that, we are also developing different use cases for offline usage. For example, the handphone purchase, as we shared in the opening. And similar type of specialized services can be deployed in SKUs as well that we're working on. For example, the potential home appliance purchase offline. It can be online as well.

除此之外，我們也透過 SPayLater 進行線下支付。可以離線使用的 SPaylater 也可以透過 Shopee Pay 收單網路線上使用。除此之外，我們也正在開發不同的離線使用用例。例如，我們在開場分享的手機購買。我們正在開發的 SKU 中也可以部署類似類型的專業服務。例如線下潛在的家電購買。它也可以在線。

For example, the other type of (inaudible). So the -- I think to the question of whether it's mainly offline or it's online as well, I think the answer is probably a combination of both. In fact, if you are in some of market, for example, Indonesia, the user can use our Shopee Pay Later, SPaylater solutions to pay in an online travel website already. So we do work with various, both online and offline partners to enable SpayLater for the transactions. And we expect the partner will grow over time for both online and offline. So it wouldn't be only offline.

例如，其他類型（聽不清楚）。因此，我認為對於主要是線下還是線上的問題，我認為答案可能是兩者的結合。事實上，如果您在某些市場，例如印度尼西亞，用戶已經可以使用我們的 Shopee Pay Later、SPaylater 解決方案在線上旅遊網站中支付。因此，我們確實與各種線上和線下合作夥伴合作，以啟用 SpayLater 進行交易。我們預計合作夥伴將隨著時間的推移在線上和線下不斷壯大。所以它不僅僅是離線的。

For the second question regarding SPX, we actually have probably to further improve the efficiency of SPX. For example, number one is the scale. There is still sizable room for us to grow our scale further, which in our space still can reduce the cost and the efficiencies.

對於第二個問題，關於SPX，我們實際上可能還需要進一步提高SPX的效率。例如，第一名是規模。我們還有很大的空間進一步擴大規模，在我們的空間內仍然可以降低成本和效率。

Number 2 is more coverage and more density of the coverage. For example, more hubs. Some of the subs can be traditional hubs (inaudible) mobile hubs through our innovative way of deploying the hubs with low cost. And if you look at Q2, we actually add about 900 hubs in Q2 and site mobile hubs with low-cost operations. Number 3 is we're also doing more automation through our network.

第二點是更大的覆蓋範圍和更高的覆蓋密度。例如，更多的樞紐。透過我們以低成本部署集線器的創新方式，一些重低音可以是傳統的集線器（聽不清楚）移動集線器。如果你看看第二季度，我們實際上在第二季度增加了大約 900 個中心和低成本營運的站點移動中心。第三，我們也透過網路實現更多自動化。

For example, in our SoCs, we are adding more automation solutions, either it's for ASM, automatic sorting machines, or it's a hybrid solution when there is a smaller SoCs, which will further improve our productivity.

例如，在我們的SoC中，我們正在添加更多的自動化解決方案，要么是針對ASM、自動分揀機，要么是當SoC較小時的混合解決方案，這將進一步提高我們的生產力。

We're adding similar solution not only to SoCs, but also to some of our first mile and last mile hubs when the scale enable it. And number 4 is better technology supporting our businesses. For example, a better sorting for our last mile drivers. We are deploying a solution that we can also suggest the rallying and sequencing we have done in some markets, for example, in Brazil. But in some of the Asian markets, that's not easy to do because of the complexity of the maps.

我們不僅為 SoC 添加類似的解決方案，而且當規模啟用時，還為我們的一些第一英里和最後一英里樞紐添加類似的解決方案。第四是更好的技術來支持我們的業務。例如，對最後一英里的司機進行更好的分類。我們正在部署一個解決方案，我們還可以建議我們在某些​​市場（例如巴西）所做的集會和排序。但在一些亞洲市場，由於地圖的複雜性，這並不容易做到。

We are rolling out more and more of our solution in different countries because we need to customize our solution for different markets.

我們正在不同的國家推出越來越多的解決方案，因為我們需要針對不同的市場客製化我們的解決方案。

And the last thing just to share is the off clock, which is very important for us. the off clock starting from the -- picking up from the seller side to the first mile half to the sorting centers to the line haul to the last mile to delivery. And it's simple, but it's actually quite complex because there are so many over along the way. And there are so many choices we have to make. Like for example, when do you sell (inaudible), when do you pick up, and whether you send to the hub directly or you send through a secondary sorting center.

最後要分享的是下班時間，這對我們來說非常重要。下班時間開始－從賣方提貨到前半英里到分揀中心到長途運輸到最後一英里到交貨。這很簡單，但實際上相當複雜，因為一路上有很多事情。我們必須做出很多選擇。例如，您何時出售（聽不清楚）、何時提貨、是直接發送到集線器還是透過二級分揀中心發送。

So optimizing the off clock will enable us to further improve our efficiencies in general. And of course, I mean, the other thing we're working on, but just sharing some of examples for the improvement opportunity we have on the logistic side.

因此，優化下班時間將使我們能夠進一步提高整體效率。當然，我的意思是，我們正在做的另一件事，但只是分享一些我們在物流方面的改進機會的例子。

Ellie Jiang, Macquarie.

艾莉江，麥格理。

I have 2. Number 1 is a follow-up on (inaudible). I just wanted to ask about the take rate the management commented. We talked about the possible opportunities ahead. But if we look in the next several years, what timeline do we really anticipate to ramp up this ad revenue and potentially get to a level that's similar to the natural market players.

我有 2 個。我只是想問一下管理層評論的採納率。我們討論了未來可能的機會。但如果我們展望未來幾年，我們真正預計什麼時間才能增加廣告收入並可能達到與自然市場參與者相似的水平。

So for example, how does it take to -- for us to stimulate more ad spending from the merchants? Would it be more efficient marketing tools or coming from more higher ticket size item sales? And the second question is on the gaming segment. So it seems like Free Fire is really generating momentum and according to some third-party trackers the momentum remained quite strong quarter-to-date. So can you comment on the visibility or the sustainability of the second half outlook?

例如，我們如何刺激商家增加廣告支出？它會是更有效的行銷工具還是來自更高門票金額的商品銷售？第二個問題是關於遊戲領域的。因此，《Free Fire》似乎確實正在產生勢頭，根據一些第三方追蹤器的數據，本季迄今為止，這一勢頭仍然相當強勁。那麼您能否評論一下下半年前景的可見性或可持續性？

And for the potential Need for Speed distribution that we partnered with Tencent, what financial contribution would that be coming from the second half as well.

對於我們與騰訊合作的潛在《極速快感》發行，下半年的財務貢獻也將是多少。

On the ad take rate, I think given the foundation we have built, as I shared earlier, we do believe that we will start to gain a benefit in the next few quarters, probably wouldn't take few years, I think public quarters. I think the basic product is there. I think it will take time for the sellers to adopt to it and also why there's different seller adopters, we have to optimize it for different markets.

關於廣告投放率，我認為鑑於我們已經建立的基礎，正如我之前分享的那樣，我們確實相信我們將在接下來的幾個季度開始獲得收益，我認為公共季度可能不需要幾年的時間。我認為基本的產品已經有了。我認為賣家需要時間來適應它，而且為什麼有不同的賣家採用者，我們必須針對不同的市場進行最佳化。

I think it comes in both in terms of the improve the efficiency on how the seller use ads product and also from our side as a platform, how we can allocate the traffic in a more efficient way, giving a seller more upside without sacrificing the overall platform conversion rate. I think that's essentially the technology built in the past few quarters, and we're trying to roll out and optimize in the next few quarters.

我認為，一方面是提高賣家使用廣告產品的效率，另一方面是我們作為平台，如何更有效地分配流量，在不犧牲整體收益的情況下，給賣家更多的優勢。我認為這本質上是過去幾季建立的技術，我們正努力在接下來的幾季推出和優化。

For -- on the game side, as you mentioned, we are very happy and we are very motivated by the trend we have observed on Free Fire. This is across pretty much all the metrics in terms of the new users, in terms of the -- like the user, the existing user retention and also such as some like monetization metrics as well, like paying ratios, right, and overall the growth rate. This demonstrate what we have done in the past. It's the right decision we made, and it's the right focus we have. And we will continue to do that.

因為——在遊戲方面，正如您所提到的，我們非常高興，並且我們對《Free Fire》中觀察到的趨勢感到非常鼓舞。這幾乎涵蓋了新用戶方面的所有指標，例如用戶、現有用戶保留率以及一些類似的貨幣化指標，例如付費比率，以及整體成長速度。這證明了我們過去所做的事情。這是我們所做的正確決定，也是我們的正確關注點。我們將繼續這樣做。

And so we'll be very, very focused on the content update, right, on the -- in the past 2 quarters, and we have some very, very successful new content release and around some (inaudible) campaigns and some like a unique gameplay, new user -- new gameplay experience. So we'll continue to do that. There will be several big update already in the pipeline, and we have a pretty strong confidence on the result of those -- on those new updates.

因此，我們將非常非常專注於內容更新，對吧，在過去的兩個季度中，我們發布了一些非常非常成功的新內容，圍繞著一些（聽不清楚）活動以及一些獨特的活動玩法，新用戶——新的遊戲體驗。所以我們將繼續這樣做。幾項重大更新已經在醞釀中，我們對這些更新的結果充滿信心。

And on top of that, and we are continually seeing Free Fire as a platform. And it's not just every like evergreen franchise, it's more like a platform. So the way we think about it, this is -- as we share like on every single days, like Free Fire can reach more than 100 million users globally. So that is very, very sizable. That is a very, very large scale.

最重要的是，我們不斷將 Free Fire 視為一個平台。它不僅僅是一個常青特許經營權，它更像是一個平台。所以我們的想法是——正如我們每天分享的那樣，Free Fire 可以覆蓋全球超過 1 億的用戶。所以這是非常非常大的。這是一個非常非常大的規模。

I think like although you may consider the game, it's a (inaudible) always the name is always called Free Fire. But in Free Fire, so if you log into the game and you will start to experience different type of game experience and like a different game mode. So it's a combination of the different gameplay experience within 1 platform under 1 Free Fire umbrella. So we'll continually explore that as well.

我認為雖然你可能會考慮這款遊戲，但它的名字（聽不清楚）始終是「Free Fire」。但在Free Fire中，所以如果你登入遊戲，你就會開始體驗不同類型的遊戲體驗並喜歡不同的遊戲模式。因此，它是 1 個 Free Fire 保護傘下 1 個平台內不同遊戲體驗的組合。所以我們也將不斷探索這一點。

And some other like longer-term initiatives we have been very, very focused on and I personally feel very excited is about how to use the AI tools, right, and both on the -- like on the production side, the game development side, right, how to make the production more cost efficient, like how to like improve the speed and the quality of the production. At the same time, we continue to explore what is the type of new game experience for gamers enabled by AI. So this has been a focus of the team.

還有其他一些像我們一直非常非常關注的長期計劃，我個人對如何使用人工智慧工具感到非常興奮，對吧，無論是在製作方面，還是在遊戲開發方面，對了，如何使生產更具成本效益，例如如何提高生產的速度和品質。同時，我們也不斷探索AI為遊戲玩家帶來什麼樣的新遊戲體驗。所以這一直是團隊關注的焦點。

And on the other hand, it's related to the platform perspective we have. Like we are not building -- only building the game content, and we are continually focused on building on the game creation tools within the Free Fire ecosystem, within the Free Fire universe. And gradually, we are going to like work with the third-party content creator, game developers to create a different like various experience within the Free Fire platform to to reach to like about 100 million daily active user base.

另一方面，這與我們的平台視角有關。就像我們不是在建構——只是在建立遊戲內容一樣，我們不斷專注於在 Free Fire 生態系統和 Free Fire 宇宙中建立遊戲創建工具。逐步地，我們將與第三方內容創作者、遊戲開發人員合作，在 Free Fire 平台內創造不同的體驗，以達到約 1 億的每日活躍用戶群。

So this is the -- I think that will not only make the Free Fire offer a more complete gamer experience. At the same time, like this will continually help us, too, on the user engagement and the monetization. So we remain very, very confident for the rest of the year, the momentum. But like as we all know, like a game business, game has -- sometimes have the impact of the seasonality, right? This is related to the school holidays, related to the certain like (inaudible) in certain markets, but look like a little bit like a longer term right from the full year perspective, as you asked.

所以這就是——我認為這不僅會讓《Free Fire》提供更完整的遊戲玩家體驗。同時，這也將持續幫助我們提高用戶參與度和貨幣化。因此，我們對今年剩餘時間的勢頭仍然非常非常有信心。但眾所周知，就像遊戲業務一樣，遊戲有時會受到季節性的影響，對嗎？這與學校假期有關，與某些市場的某些類似（聽不清楚）有關，但正如您所問，從全年的角度來看，這看起來有點像一個較長的期限。

And we remain confident to deliver the double-digit growth for Free Fire for both the monetization side and also on the user growth side.

我們仍然有信心為《Free Fire》在獲利方面和用戶成長方面實現兩位數的成長。

And we are very excited. We work very, very closely with our partners like EA and the Tencent to work on the new games in our pipeline. But I would say like it's still early to comment, right, on what in terms of the revenue contribution. And internally, like we have been tremendously still focused on Free Fire. And we will let the market know and give them more detailed update when we get the new game launched, I think when we get the user feedback, and we see the data better sense how big potential those new games could be.

我們非常興奮。我們與 EA 和騰訊等合作夥伴密切合作，共同開發新遊戲。但我想說，現在就收入貢獻發表評論還為時過早。在內部，我們仍然非常專注於《Free Fire》。當我們推出新遊戲時，我們會讓市場知道並向他們提供更詳細的更新，我認為當我們得到用戶回饋時，我們看到數據可以更好地感受到這些新遊戲的潛力有多大。

Divya Kothiyal, Morgan Stanley.

迪維亞·科蒂亞爾，摩根士丹利。

My first question is just on your views on the higher risk from competition from cross-border e-commerce. I mean, given the traction the team was seeing in recent months in Philippines and Malaysia and their recent entry in Thailand, do you think that this could also become a credible competitor the way TikTok came to this geography? And how are we planning to respond to this, especially in relation to our positive adjusted EBITDA guidance for the third quarter?

我的第一個問題是關於您對跨境電商競爭帶來的更高風險的看法。我的意思是，考慮到球隊近幾個月在菲律賓和馬來西亞的吸引力以及最近進入泰國的勢頭，你認為這也可能成為一個可靠的競爭對手，就像 TikTok 進入這個地區一樣嗎？我們計劃如何應對這一問題，特別是與我們第三季度積極調整後的 EBITDA 指導相關的問題？

And my second question is on e-commerce GMV. Is the higher guidance coming more from the surprises in Brazil? Or is it from ASEAN? And if you can comment on the trends that you're seeing in July and August, given that second half is slightly tougher based than the first half, and are we seeing any tapering there?

我的第二個問題是關於電商GMV的。更高的指引是否更多來自巴西的意外？還是來自東協？如果您能評論一下您在 7 月和 8 月看到的趨勢，考慮到下半年比上半年稍微困難一些，我們是否看到那裡有任何縮減？

For the CP players, I think you will probably refer to Tmall's businesses coming to Asia. I mean, generally, we have a lot of respect for with indoor and Tmall achieved in the past either. However, I think if our market will probably monitor, but from (inaudible) farm, I think the impact to our business is probably rather limited from what we see.

對於CP玩家，我想你們可能會提到天貓的業務來到亞洲。我的意思是，總的來說，我們對室內和天貓過去的成就也非常尊重。然而，我認為如果我們的市場可能會監控，但從（聽不清楚）農場進行監控，我認為從我們所看到的來看，對我們業務的影響可能相當有限。

I think for 2 reasons. One is CP by nature is a smaller part of our businesses in our market. If you look at the market like Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia mentioned, majority of the e-commerce transaction happen to be a domestic selling rather than cross-border selling, right? There are many reasons to contribute to that, of course. But as a fact, that's how the market landscape involved for the better efficiency and cost structure that the domestic e-commerce offers.

我認為有兩個原因。一是 CP 本質上只占我們市場中業務的一小部分。如果你看看像菲律賓、泰國、馬來西亞這樣的市場，大多數電子商務交易恰好是國內銷售而不是跨國銷售，對嗎？當然，有很多原因可以為此做出貢獻。但事實上，這就是國內電子商務提供更好的效率和成本結構所涉及的市場格局。

And this one. Second one is a great strength for TMO other cross-border players entering to the U.S. or European market is that pricing. They typically carries in price advantage compared to the existing players. However, if you compare our pricing to their pricing in the market that you mentioned, Philippine, Thailand or Malaysia, we actually have a much better pricing advantage compared to them.

還有這個。對於TMO其他進入美國或歐洲市場的跨國企業來說，第二個優勢就是定價。與現有參與者相比，它們通常具有價格優勢。然而，如果你將我們的定價與你提到的菲律賓、泰國或馬來西亞市場的定價進行比較，我們實際上比他們有更好的定價優勢。

It was mainly because we actually operate in a very competitive environment for quite a long time. And we are being essentially having a very competitive seller landscape domestically for quite a while. And also compared to a more developed market, where the operating cost is much higher compared to the freight cost in China, the operating cost for our sellers in our market domestically is probably cheaper than operating costs in China, if you take a person in Philippines to open a warehouse or operate a shop, they are probably cheaper than a Chinese person.

主要是因為我們實際上在很長一段時間裡都是在一個競爭非常激烈的環境中運作的。在相當長一段時間內，我們在國內基本上擁有一個非常有競爭力的賣家格局。而且與更發達的市場相比，營運成本比中國的運費高得多，我們國內市場的賣家的營運成本可能比中國的營運成本便宜，如果你帶一個人在菲律賓開一個倉庫或經營商店，他們可能比一個中國人便宜。

So many different reasons contribute to the fact that our pricing in our marketplace, we should mark externally actually, is very competitive compared to even the cross-border players you mentioned.

有許多不同的原因導致我們在市場上的定價（實際上我們應該在外部進行標記）甚至與您提到的跨境參與者相比也非常有競爭力。

To your second question around the GMV guidance, I think generally, you see good growth which are better than we thought before when we give out the previous guidance in both Asia market and Brazil market. Just in the pure scale, Brazil market is compared to Asia, it's still relatively smaller as the total size as where we are. So the 1 market would not influence the number dramatically. So when we look at a better growth guidance, I think it will imply that both markets in Asia and Brazil will have a meaningful improvement from what we thought before.

關於你關於 GMV 指導的第二個問題，我認為總的來說，你會看到良好的成長，這比我們之前在亞洲市場和巴西市場給出之前的指導時想像的要好。就純粹規模而言，巴西市場與亞洲相比，其總規模仍相對較小。因此，1 市場不會對數字產生太大影響。因此，當我們看到更好的成長指引時，我認為這將意味著亞洲和巴西的市場將比我們先前的想法有意義的改善。

And as you mentioned that last year, our Q2 and Q4 does have a higher base compared to Q1, Q2, but still I think the core thing is that there are many initiatives we have done from last year from Q3 and Q2 -- sorry, Q3 and Q4 on the content side improvement and also the improvement on the service quality improvement on the cost structures, the improvements from the pricing, all those contribute to better retention and the new user coming to our platform, which drives better growth that we're seeing so far, which leads to our risk on the guidance.

正如您去年提到的，與第一季、第二季相比，我們的第二季和第四季確實有更高的基數，但我仍然認為核心是我們從去年第三季和第二季度開始採取了許多舉措- 抱歉，第三季和第四季度內容方面的改進以及服務品質的改進、成本結構的改進、定價的改進，所有這些都有助於更好的保留和新用戶來到我們的平台，這推動了我們更好的成長到目前為止，我們看到了這一點，這導致了我們對指導的風險。

Sachin Salgaonkar, Bank of America.

薩欽‧薩爾岡卡 (Sachin Salgaonkar)，美國銀行。

Congrats on a good set of numbers. I have 2 questions. First 1 on gaming and second 1 on e-commerce. On gaming, again, when we look at your numbers, one gets a sense that your bookings are up, your users are up, but revenue is down. We are seeing that trend for the last couple of quarters where ARPU continues to go down.

恭喜您獲得了一組不錯的數字。我有 2 個問題。第一個關於遊戲，第二個關於電子商務。同樣，在遊戲方面，當我們查看您的數字時，我們會感覺到您的預訂量增加了，您的用戶增加了，但收入卻下降了。我們看到過去幾季的 ARPU 持續下降的趨勢。

What happened this quarter is clearly, we could see margins almost being at an all-time high. So I want to understand, is this a specific trend we should look at going ahead where ARPU continues to decline and margins continue to improve or at least stay at these levels? . Second question, I understand your earlier comments on competition being rational, but I just want to double-click on a couple of markets. One, Taiwan, where we have a new competitor, coupon, which is aggressive.

本季發生的情況很明顯，我們可以看到利潤率幾乎達到歷史最高水準。所以我想了解，這是我們應該關注的特定趨勢嗎？ 。第二個問題，我理解您之前關於競爭是理性的評論，但我只想雙擊幾個市場。第一，台灣，我們有一個新的競爭對手，優惠券，它很激進。

So I would love to know your thoughts on overall competitive intensity in that market. And second, in Indonesia, where 1 of the players had increased subsidies in the market. So any specific response from you guys to that? And how are you guys looking at the increased subsidies?

所以我很想知道您對該市場整體競爭強度的看法。其次，在印度尼西亞，其中一個參與者增加了市場補貼。那麼你們對此有何具體回應？你們如何看待增加的補貼？

Thanks for the question. I think for the first question, you were talking about the GAAP revenue. So basically, the bookings actually improved, both Q-on-Q and year-over-year. Well, because of the GAAP treatment, we have to defer more revenues into the future quarters. So that's why we typically see the variations in the GAAP revenue side that is on the reverse side, we're still with the bookings side.

謝謝你的提問。我認為對於第一個問題，您談論的是公認會計準則收入。所以基本上，預訂量實際上有所改善，無論是環比還是同比。嗯，由於 GAAP 處理方式，我們必須將更多收入推遲到未來幾季。因此，這就是為什麼我們通常會看到 GAAP 收入方面的變化，而相反，我們仍然在預訂方面。

So well, for ARPU, what we see is the average revenue per user is relatively stable, while it might be factoring a little bit, but it's more coming from the market mix. We don't see very big fluctuation Q-o-Q for this quarter. I think for your question on the competitive landscape in Taiwan and Indonesia. If you like Taiwan, I think Taiwan, we still enjoy a rather dominant market position in the market so we do see some new entrants, and we do look at it seriously. But I think the impact to our business at this stage is relatively small.

那麼，對於 ARPU 來說，我們看到的是每個用戶的平均收入相對穩定，雖然可能會受到一點影響，但更多來自市場組合。我們認為本季環比波動不會很大。我想回答你關於台灣和印尼競爭格局的問題。如果你喜歡台灣，我認為台灣，我們在市場上仍然享有相當主導的市場地位，所以我們確實看到一些新進入者，我們確實認真對待它。但我認為現階段對我們業務的影響還是比較小的。

And the core thing for us, I mean, without commenting too much on your specific competitors, of course. The core thing that we are doing Taiwan is, number one, to shorten our delivery time through our own SPL network. We are coming a lot more next-day deliveries through our own aspect network, which is typically done through a 3PL with much more expensive delivery systems, we are able to do a (inaudible) with much cheaper, in many cases, probably cheaper than the alternative solution in the market. That's one.

我的意思是，對我們來說最核心的事情當然是不對您的特定競爭對手發表太多評論。我們在台灣所做的核心事情是，第一，透過我們自己的 SPL 網路縮短我們的交貨時間。我們將透過我們自己的方面網絡進行更多的次日交付，這通常是透過 3PL 完成的，交付系統要昂貴得多，我們能夠以更便宜的價格（在許多情況下，可能比市場上的替代解決方案。這是一個。

Second 1 is to further increase the efficiency of the supply side to work with our sellers to fulfill their orders, not only not only the delivery side, but also the warehousing side, the (inaudible) side, to do it in a more cost-effective way.

第二個1是進一步提高供應方的效率，與我們的賣家一起完成他們的訂單，不僅是交貨方，還有倉儲方，（聽不清楚）方，以更高的成本來做——有效的方法。

Number 3 is to work with more sellers to increase their assortment for those areas that we think can be further enhanced. I think all these things will help us to maintain our competitiveness in the market while maintaining the profitability in the market.

第三是與更多賣家合作，增加我們認為可以進一步增強的領域的產品種類。我認為所有這些都將有助於我們保持市場競爭力，同時保持市場獲利能力。

For Indonesia, I think there are different players doing different thing in the market. And there will be seasonal fluctuations. We wouldn't pay that attention to short-term up and down on the subsidies you mentioned. I think we look at slightly longer term, let's say, medium-term trends at least month-to-month or quarter-to-quarter trends. We didn't see any different changes on that if you look at longer term rather than pushing on specific things or specific ways or days.

對於印度尼西亞，我認為市場上有不同的參與者在做不同的事情。而且還會有季節性的波動。你提到的補貼的短期漲跌我們不會那麼關注。我認為我們著眼於稍微長期的趨勢，比如說中期趨勢，至少是逐月或逐季度的趨勢。如果你著眼於長遠而不是推動特定的事情或特定的方式或日子，我們沒有看到任何不同的變化。

Thomas Chong with Jefferies.

湯瑪斯‧莊與傑弗里斯。

My first question is about our DFS business. Just now, I think our management commented a lot about BNPL, cash loan and offshore prepay later. I just want to get some color with regard to the margin trend for different categories. Any color about demand profile would be great.

我的第一個問題是關於我們的DFS業務。剛才，我想我們的管理層後來對BNPL、現金貸款和離岸預付款發表了很多評論。我只是想了解不同類別的利潤趨勢。任何關於需求概況的顏色都會很棒。

And on the other hand, I think given the macro uncertainties we are seeing globally, how should we think about the risk management in particular, the ticket size and the tenure, et cetera.

另一方面，我認為鑑於我們在全球範圍內看到的宏觀不確定性，我們應該如何考慮風險管理，特別是票據規模和期限等。

And my second question is more about the overall business. Given our different business segments are seeing a very good growth momentum, how should we think about the longer-term revenue mix profile? Should we expect DFS to become more meaningful in the long term?

我的第二個問題更多的是關於整體業務。鑑於我們不同的業務部門都呈現出非常好的成長勢頭，我們應該如何考慮長期收入組合狀況？從長遠來看，我們是否應該期望 DFS 變得更有意義？

First one, on the margin trends. If you look at a particular market or particular products in our portfolio, our margin has been relatively stable. In fact, in some markets, we see a better risk profiles there for our product, which will, in turn, put our EBITDA ultimately.

第一個是關於邊際趨勢。如果你看看我們投資組合中的特定市場或特定產品，我們的利潤率相對穩定。事實上，在某些市場，我們看到我們產品的風險狀況更好，這反過來又將最終提高我們的 EBITDA。

But 1 thing I want to share on this topic is that given that we have many different markets and we do see that the newer market has probably a faster speed of growth. If you track our historical products in Indonesia first, and we expand to other markets like Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and Brazil. So typically, you will see that given the smaller base, so the latest market has a slightly faster growth than the market. I think it's the natural trend.

但我想就這個主題分享的一件事是，鑑於我們有許多不同的市場，而且我們確實看到新市場的成長速度可能更快。如果您先追蹤我們在印尼的歷史產品，我們會擴展到菲律賓、馬來西亞、泰國、越南和巴西等其他市場。因此，通常情況下，您會發現鑑於基數較小，因此最新市場的成長速度略快於市場。我認為這是自然趨勢。

And in fact, we are very happy with the growth we see in some of the new markets, for example, in Thailand, we see very good growth. In Brazil, we also saw quite good growth in the past quarters. On the market uncertainty, generally, I think there are many macro factors impacting our market. I think that was a big macro impact from the COVID time, then after COVID time.

事實上，我們對一些新市場的成長感到非常滿意，例如在泰國，我們看到了非常好的成長。在巴西，過去幾季我們也看到了相當不錯的成長。關於市場的不確定性，總的來說，我認為影響我們市場的宏觀因素有很多。我認為這是新冠疫情期間以及之後的巨大宏觀影響。

I think the since late last year, we are seeing a more stable market environment, in fact, for most of the market. There are 2 things that's important for us in terms of managing the market environment. One is the duration of our lending products. Second 1 is the ticket size you mentioned. So in general, our duration is rather a short duration rather than a very long duration.

我認為自去年年底以來，我們看到了一個更穩定的市場環境，事實上，對於大多數市場而言。在管理市場環境方面，有兩件事對我們來說很重要。一是我們貸款產品的期限。第二個 1 是您提到的門票尺寸。所以總的來說，我們的持續時間是相當短的持續時間而不是很長的持續時間。

By short duration, we were talking about just a few months in average, right?

就短期而言，我們談論的平均只有幾個月，對吧？

And our ticket size also compared to many other lending products, our ticket size is more on the smaller side. So in the combination of both will help us to be a lot more agile in terms of how we manage our portfolio, managed portfolio in terms of how much lending we give out, how can we do risk-based pricing for the user bases and also how we do collections and how do we fine tune our portfolio based on the market environment. So in that sense, I think we are quite comfortable with where we are. And even there is unexpected market environment change, I think we are probably much better positioned than anyone else that we can see in the market with our size. For the long-term revenue mix of 3 businesses, if you look at each of the 3 businesses, I think each of them some like at this moment, have some tailwinds, right?

而且我們的票據規模也與許多其他貸款產品相比，我們的票據規模較小。因此，兩者的結合將幫助我們在如何管理我們的投資組合、根據我們發放的貸款數量來管理投資組合、我們如何為用戶群進行基於風險的定價以及如何管理投資組合方面變得更加敏捷。如何進行收藏以及如何根據市場環境調整我們的產品組合。所以從這個意義上來說，我認為我們對目前的處境感到非常滿意。即使市場環境發生意外變化，我認為我們的定位可能比市場上以我們的規模看到的任何其他公司都要好得多。對於 3 項業務的長期收入組合，如果你看看這 3 項業務中的每一項，我認為它們中的每一項都像此時此刻一樣，都有一些順風車，對嗎？

And for our like estimated e-commerce like GMV growth, right, and that will be the driver of the potential revenue growth as well.

對於我們估計的電子商務（如 GMV 成長）來說，這也將是潛在收入成長的驅動力。

And if we continue to work on the trade and only on the mission side, but also on the ad take rate side, right, and that could be a driver as well. And if you look at the Financial Services business, as we shared and if we continually deepen depend the penetration on Shopee ecosystem.

如果我們繼續致力於貿易，不僅在任務方面，而且在廣告投放率方面，對吧，這也可能是個驅動因素。如果你看看金融服務業務，正如我們所分享的那樣，我們是否不斷深化取決於 Shopee 生態系統的滲透率。

At the same time, the total loan book size will be, I think, grow nicely with the overall Shopee GMV growth as well. For game business that we shared earlier, right, and we found the right formula for growth prefire again, and we see a very, very strong momentum. So at this point, I think it's hard to come out. We don't see like certain businesses going up and certain business go down, and then it changed how the revenue mix look like.

同時，我認為貸款總額也將隨著整體 Shopee GMV 的成長而良好成長。對於我們之前分享的遊戲業務，我們再次找到了正確的成長公式，我們看到了非常非常強勁的勢頭。所以這時候我覺得很難走出來。我們不認為某些業務會上升，某些業務會下降，然後它改變了收入組合的樣子。

I would say like we'll be continually focused on growing each of businesses as much as we can. But like as Tony just mentioned, but purely from a GAAP revenue perspective growth of the game business because of how the GAAP revenue works, may there a certain delay how to react to reflect into the GAAP revenue, right? And so that's why, in general, we use the booking as the like a closer proxy to benchmark in terms of the growth.

我想說的是，我們將繼續專注於盡可能發展每項業務。但就像托尼剛才提到的那樣，純粹從 GAAP 收入的角度來看，遊戲業務的增長由於 GAAP 收入的運作方式，可能會存在一定的延遲，如何反應到 GAAP 收入中，對嗎？因此，一般來說，我們使用預訂作為成長基準的更接近的代理商。

From that perspective, maybe we like see the higher percentage of the revenue contribution from financial services. But again, this is purely, in our view, because of the GAAP revenue treatment for the game business, doesn't reflect. We our -- we don't have the confidence on the future growth of the game business, yes.

從這個角度來看，也許我們希望看到金融服務的收入貢獻比例更高。但同樣，在我們看來，這純粹是因為遊戲業務的 GAAP 收入處理方式並沒有反映出來。是的，我們對遊戲業務的未來成長沒有信心。

Jiong Shao, Barclays.

邵炯，巴克萊銀行。

I should have a couple of follow-ups. One is back on the take rate. You talked about increasing the advertising take rate to the global comps, global benchmark in a matter of quarters, not years. In your opening remarks, you also talked about your commission take rate is below the global comps even it's good you guys and your peers are raising our take rate, but your commission take rate is still quite a bit below the Amazons and (inaudible), the eBays. I was just wondering, are there structural reasons why you're seeing that longer term, your commission take rate won't be close to the global peers?

我應該有一些後續行動。一是恢復了接受率。您談到在幾個季度而不是幾年內將廣告投放率提高到全球比較、全球基準。在您的開場白中，您還談到您的佣金率低於全球同行，即使您和您的同行提高了我們的佣金率是件好事，但您的佣金率仍然遠低於亞馬遜，並且（聽不見清），易趣網。我只是想知道，從長遠來看，你們的佣金率不會接近全球同行，是否有結構性原因？

And is there any timing to reach that go?

達到這個目標有什麼時機嗎？

The second follow-up is back to the gaming booking, I know you talked quite a bit about the strong booking growth, which was amazing, second quarter, in particular previously, you have talked about double-digit booking growth for this year for Free Fire. I think the assumption was low teens. But given the particular strengths you have seen in the last couple of quarters, the reason to expect the implied the booking growth of 3 5 for 2024 should be going higher. If not, why not?

第二個後續行動回到遊戲預訂，我知道您談到了強勁的預訂增長，這是令人驚奇的，第二季度，特別是之前，您談到了今年免費的兩位數預訂增長火。我認為這個假設是低十幾歲的。但考慮到您在過去幾季看到的特殊優勢，我們有理由預期 2024 年 3 至 5 的預訂量成長應該會更高。如果沒有，為什麼不呢？

For the take rate question, I think for the ad take rate, as I mentioned, I think we will see the potential growth in the next few quarters rather than years. And of course, the base is different in different markets.

對於採用率問題，我認為對於廣告採用率，正如我所提到的，我認為我們將在未來幾季而不是幾年內看到潛在的成長。當然，不同市場的基礎是不同的。

So auto, it's -- it might be different numbers in different markets. On the commissions, I think I would rather look at totality if you look at commission and ads, et cetera. I don't think that is the reason we will be any below the global peers in the market that you mentioned. Yes, I think this reflects to our long-term guidance on how the EBITDA will be at the 2% to 3% of the market.

所以汽車，在不同的市場可能有不同的數字。關於佣金，我想如果你看佣金和廣告等，我寧願看整體。我不認為這就是我們在市場上低於您提到的全球同行的原因。是的，我認為這反映了我們對 EBITDA 將如何佔據市場 2% 至 3% 的長期指導。

In terms of the game booking, Free Fire booking guidance, right, for the rest of the year. Yes, I think you are right. It's -- we do see strong momentum continuing. And -- but at this moment, we want to be cautious, right? And the things we just have with this very, very strong momentum for the past 2 quarters.

就遊戲預訂而言，《Free Fire》今年剩餘時間的預訂指南對吧。是的，我認為你是對的。我們確實看到強勁的勢頭仍在繼續。而且——但此時此刻，我們要保持謹慎，對吧？過去兩個季度我們的勢頭非常非常強勁。

And we want to continually just focus on the effort that we have done, which proved to be productive.

我們希望繼續專注於我們所做的努力，事實證明這些努力是富有成效的。

And if we continually seeing this trend, and we will update the market, we'll update our investors timely and accordingly.

如果我們不斷看到這種趨勢，我們將更新市場，我們將及時相應地更新我們的投資者。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. M.C. Koh for any closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。我想將會議重新交給 M.C. 先生。 Koh 的結束語。

Thank you all for joining today's call. We look forward to speaking to all of you again next quarter.

感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。我們期待下季再次與大家交談。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。