力拓 (RIO) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Rio Tinto's 2023 Results Meeting. As usual, a couple of housekeeping items before we start proceedings. Can I please ask you to put your mobile phones to silent or turn them off. And secondly, for those here in the room today, there's no fire drill planned. If you hear a fire alarm, please leave via the fire doors at the back or the front and follow the instructions of the fire marshals.

大家好，歡迎參加力拓2023年業績發表會。像往常一樣，在我們開始訴訟之前，有一些家務事項。我可以請您將手機調至靜音或關機嗎？其次，對於今天在座的各位來說，沒有計劃進行消防演習。如果聽到火警，請透過後面或前面的防火門離開，並聽從消防人員的指示。

Jakob and Peter will present the key items of the results and the forward-looking items for about 30 minutes, and then we'll have 45 minutes for Q&A. (Operator Instructions) Jakob, over to you.

Jakob 和 Peter 將介紹結果的關鍵項目和前瞻性項目，時間約為 30 分鐘，然後我們將有 45 分鐘的問答時間。 （操作員指示）雅各布，交給你了。

Thank you, Menno. Good morning, good evening to everyone. Thank you for joining us. The 23rd of January was the saddest day of my 5 years -- 5.5 years of Rio Tinto. On that day, a chartered plane crashed near Fort Smith in Canada. We lost 4 colleagues from our Diavik mine and 2 airline crew members. We are completely devastated. When I went to Diavik and Fort Smith, I saw how heartbreaking this tragedy is for the loved ones, our team and the whole community. Our focus is on supporting everyone who has been affected as the authorities continue to investigate what has happened.

謝謝你，門諾。大家早安，晚上好。感謝您加入我們。 1月23日是我加入力拓5.5年以來最悲傷的一天。當天，一架包機在加拿大史密斯堡附近墜毀。我們失去了 Diavik 礦場的 4 名同事和 2 名航空公司機組人員。我們徹底崩潰了。當我前往戴維克和史密斯堡時，我看到這場悲劇對親人、我們的團隊和整個社區來說是多麼令人心碎。隨著當局繼續調查所發生的事情，我們的重點是支持所有受影響的人。

A tragedy like this puts everything into perspective. It's a horrific reminder that nothing, absolutely nothing is more important than safety. Safety continues to be our top priority. Our work to evolve our culture and processes to ensure everyone, everywhere goes home safely everyday is never done. So allow me a moment of reflection.

這樣的悲劇讓一切變得清晰起來。這是一個可怕的提醒，沒有什麼、絕對沒有什麼比安全更重要。安全仍然是我們的首要任務。我們不斷發展我們的文化和流程，以確保世界各地的每個人每天都能安全回家。所以請容許我思考一下。

Thank you. I also wanted to acknowledge and pay my respect to all Traditional Owners and First Nations that host our operations around the world.

謝謝。我還想向在世界各地開展業務的所有傳統所有者和原住民表示感謝和敬意。

Turning to our financials. Our business is very robust. These attractive results shows fundamental strength and stability. We have a very profitable business, a 20% return on capital employed despite $1.5 billion negative impact from lower commodity prices. Our overall production has grown. We have achieved underlying earnings of $11.8 billion, and we will return $7.1 billion to our shareholders, equating to a 60% payout on the ordinary dividend.

轉向我們的財務狀況。我們的業務非常強勁。這些有吸引力的結果顯示了基本實力和穩定性。儘管大宗商品價格下跌造成了 15 億美元的負面影響，但我們的業務利潤非常豐厚，所用資本回報率為 20%。我們的整體產量有所成長。我們已經實現了 118 億美元的基本盈利，我們將向股東返還 71 億美元，相當於普通股息的 60%。

And we have been investing with discipline to improve the health of our business for the long term while consistently delivering throughout the year. Even as we have stepped up our capital expenditures, made acquisitions and paid out a large dividend, our net debt is virtually unchanged from 2022 at $4.2 billion. We are resilient, and we are improving our operations even better. There's so much more to come.

我們一直在嚴格投資，以改善我們業務的長期健康狀況，同時全年持續交付。儘管我們增加了資本支出、進行收購並支付了大量股息，但我們的淨債務與 2022 年相比幾乎沒有變化，為 42 億美元。我們具有韌性，並且正在更好地改善我們的營運。還有很多事情要做。

Our success starts with our clear understanding that we are a long-term business. To deliver for the long term, we are relentlessly following our purpose and our 4 objectives of becoming best operator, achieving impeccable ESG credentials, excel in development and deepening our social license.

我們的成功始於我們清楚地認識到我們是一家長期企業。為了實現長期目標，我們堅持不懈地遵循我們的宗旨和 4 個目標，即成為最佳運營商、獲得無可挑剔的 ESG 資格、在發展中脫穎而出並深化我們的社會許可。

We are also investing in the health of our people, our assets and our ore bodies. Our culture drives performance, which is why we are developing a culture of trust based upon values of care, courage and curiosity. We're making progress, enabling our people to improve performance by deepening the rollout of the safe production system. At the same time, we are developing our portfolio to position our business for the future.

我們也投資於我們的人民、我們的資產和我們的礦體的健康。我們的文化推動績效，這就是為什麼我們正在發展一種基於關懷、勇氣和好奇心價值觀的信任文化。我們正在取得進展，透過深化安全生產系統的推廣，使我們的員工能夠提高績效。同時，我們正在開發我們的產品組合，以定位我們的未來業務。

We have really stabilized and improved our iron ore business, both in terms of short-term delivery and strengthening the long-term pipeline. We are progressing projects in the Pilbara, including Western Range and Rhodes Ridge. We're also achieving a balance across our portfolio, kicking copper into action with the ramp-up of the underground production at Oyu Tolgoi in Mongolia. And we're evolving our aluminum business, providing our customers with recycling options through our Matalco joint venture.

無論是在短期交付還是在加強長期管道方面，我們確實穩定並改善了我們的鐵礦石業務。我們正在皮爾巴拉推進項目，包括西部山脈和羅德山脊。我們也實現了產品組合的平衡，隨著蒙古奧尤陶勒蓋地下產量的增加，銅礦開始投入使用。我們正在發展我們的鋁業務，透過我們的 Matalco 合資企業為我們的客戶提供回收選擇。

We have a major challenge to repower our aluminum operations in Australia. Today, we announced the second agreement to provide some of the renewable power our Gladstone assets needs. And we are embedding co-design and co-management into our approach, working in partnerships with communities and indigenous people for mutual benefit.

我們面臨著重振澳洲鋁業務的重大挑戰。今天，我們宣布了第二項協議，以提供我們的格拉斯頓資產所需的一些可再生能源。我們正在將共同設計和共同管理納入我們的方法中，與社區和原住民合作以實現互惠互利。

For example, collaborating with the Yindjibarndi Energy Corporation to explore opportunities for renewable energy projects in the Pilbara. Safe and empowered people, healthy assets and a balanced portfolio, all underpinned by social license. This is essential to achieve healthy operational and financial performance and deliver attractive returns over the long term. I'll now hand over to Peter to take you through the financials. Thank you.

例如，與 Yindjibarndi 能源公司合作，探索皮爾巴拉再生能源專案的機會。安全和賦權的人員、健康的資產和平衡的投資組合，所有這些都以社會許可為基礎。這對於實現健康的營運和財務表現以及提供有吸引力的長期回報至關重要。現在我將請彼得向您介紹財務狀況。謝謝。

Thanks, Jakob. Good morning, good evening, everyone. I'm really pleased to have the opportunity to present this set of results because we've had good operational momentum with a steady improvement in our performance in the Pilbara, where we delivered iron ore shipments at the upper end of our guidance. We also had a strong start to underground operations at Oyu Tolgoi and Kitimat has returned to full production.

謝謝，雅各。大家早安，晚上好。我真的很高興有機會展示這組結果，因為我們擁有良好的營運勢頭，皮爾巴拉的業績穩步改善，我們在那裡交付的鐵礦石出貨量達到了指導值的上限。我們在奧尤陶勒蓋 (Oyu Tolgoi) 的地下作業也取得了良好的開端，基蒂馬特 (Kitimat) 也已恢復全面生產。

But we do still have a lot of work ahead of us. Firstly, we have some assets where we need to stabilize production. In 2023, IOC and Kennecott in particular, face some challenges. And secondly, we need to push on with the implementation of the safe production system to deliver continuous productivity improvement in our operations. In summary, there is significant value remaining to be unlocked from our existing assets.

但我們還有很多工作要做。首先，我們有一些資產需要穩定生產。 2023年，國際奧委會和肯尼科特尤其面臨一些挑戰。二是紮實推動安全生產體系建設，持續提升生產效率。總之，我們現有資產仍有大量價值有待釋放。

On a net-net basis, our underlying EBITDA declined 9% to $23.9 billion. Cash flow from operations remained strong at $15.2 billion, but we do need to bring down inventory. Free cash flow was $7.7 billion after capital expenditure of $7.1 billion. Following dividends paid and funding of the Matalco transaction for just over $700 million, we ended the year with net debt of $4.2 billion, virtually unchanged from 2022.

以淨額計算，我們的基本 EBITDA 下降 9%，至 239 億美元。營運現金流依然強勁，達到 152 億美元，但我們確實需要降低庫存。扣除 71 億美元的資本支出後，自由現金流為 77 億美元。在支付股息和為 Matalco 交易提供略多於 7 億美元的資金後，我們年底的淨債務為 42 億美元，與 2022 年相比幾乎沒有變化。

Overall, we delivered a healthy return on capital employed of 20% on underlying earnings of $11.8 billion. This underpinned our decision to continue our 8-year record of declaring a 60% payout on the ordinary dividend, equating to $7.1 billion.

整體而言，我們的基本收益為 118 億美元，資本回報率為 20%。這支持了我們決定繼續維持 8 年記錄，即派發 60% 的普通股息，相當於 71 億美元。

We did have some one-off items. As I presented at the half year, we made an adjustment to the carrying value of our Gladstone refineries. In the second half, we increased the closure estimates for a number of closed assets, in particular, ERA. As ever, markets are the biggest determinant of annual volatility in our financials and 2023 was no different.

我們確實有一些一次性物品。正如我在半年中介紹的那樣，我們對格拉斯頓煉油廠的帳面價值進行了調整。下半年，我們提高了一些已關閉資產的關閉預估，尤其是 ERA。一如既往，市場是我們財務年度波動的最大決定因素，2023 年也不例外。

Overall, the price impact was negative. Although it is important to call out the stability of iron ore markets during the period. Despite the Platts Index being broadly flat, our realized iron ore price was actually 2% higher due to higher relativity of lower-grade products. The copper market was largely stable year-on-year with prices declining 3%.

整體而言，價格影響是負面的。儘管重要的是要指出在此期間鐵礦石市場的穩定。儘管普氏指數基本上持平，但由於低品位產品的相關性較高，我們的鐵礦石實際價格實際上上漲了 2%。銅市場較去年同期穩定，價格下跌3%。

We've recently seen some disruptions in mine supply, about 1 million tonnes, resulting in much stronger concentrate markets. We're also seeing the effects of the energy transition on demand coming through, particularly from the EV market. Aluminum demand continues to increase, although at a lower rate. We saw our realized price come down by 18%, with lower LME price as well as market and product premia.

我們最近發現礦場供應出現一些中斷，約 100 萬噸，導致精礦市場更強勁。我們也看到能源轉型對需求的影響，特別是來自電動車市場的影響。鋁需求持續增加，但增幅較低。隨著 LME 價格以及市場和產品溢價的降低，我們的實現價格下降了 18%。

The behavior of the aluminum price reflects its increased exposure to consumer markets. Let me now provide some context to the iron ore price stability. Critically, 2023 was the fourth year with Chinese steel production above 1 billion tonnes. The big driver was a significant increase in net steel exports to 84 million tonnes, mainly to Southeast Asia.

鋁價的走勢反映了其對消費市場的曝險增加。現在讓我提供一些有關鐵礦石價格穩定的背景資訊。至關重要的是，2023年是中國鋼鐵產量連續第四年超過10億噸。最大的推動因素是鋼材淨出口量大幅增加至 8,400 萬噸，主要出口到東南亞。

China is also experiencing a fundamental change in demand. As shown by the chart on the left, since 2019, we've seen a steady rise in its share of finished steel demand going into infrastructure, the energy sector and manufacturing with properties share declining.

中國的需求也正在經歷根本性的變化。如左圖所示，自2019年以來，我們看到基礎設施、能源部門和製造業的成品鋼材需求份額穩步上升，而房地產份額下降。

Turning now to the EBITDA movement. In aggregate, commodity prices lowered EBITDA by $1.5 billion, primarily driven by aluminum. Weaker currencies in Australia and Canada offset this by about $600 million. The real positive in the period, though was the 3% rise in copper equivalent production.

現在轉向 EBITDA 變動。總的來說，大宗商品價格使 EBITDA 降低了 15 億美元，這主要是由鋁造成的。澳洲和加拿大貨幣疲軟抵消了約 6 億美元的影響。不過，這段時期真正的正面因素是銅當量產量增加了 3%。

The increase in Pilbara output was a big factor behind this growth and added $600 million. In copper, we benefited from the Oyu Tolgoi underground ramp-up, but there was some offset at Kennecott due to a conveyor failure in the first half and the planned rebuild of the smelter in the second and third quarters.

皮爾巴拉 (Pilbara) 產量的增加是這一增長背後的重要因素，增加了 6 億美元。在銅方面，我們受益於奧尤陶勒蓋地下產能的增加，但由於上半年輸送機故障以及計劃在第二和第三季度重建冶煉廠，肯尼科特的產量有所抵消。

aluminum production was 9% higher as Kitimat returned to full production. However, we're not yet seeing the extra metal volume flow into higher earnings due to the additional costs of the ramp-up. Reducing these is going to be a key focus area for 2024. Somewhat counterintuitively, we're showing a negative volume variance for aluminum, which reflects lower value-added product sales of around $100 million.

隨著 Kitimat 恢復全面生產，鋁產量增加了 9%。然而，由於產能增加的額外成本，我們尚未看到額外的金屬產量帶來更高的效益。減少這些將成為 2024 年的重點關注領域。有點違反直覺的是，我們顯示鋁的銷售差異為負，這反映出附加價值產品銷售額較低，約為 1 億美元。

Our ongoing exploration and evaluation expenditure in 2023 was $900 million, which compares with guidance of around $1 billion. We saw a significant step-up in activities at Simandou, which we continue to expense until the end of the third quarter.

我們在 2023 年正在進行的勘探和評估支出為 9 億美元，而指導值為約 10 億美元。我們看到西芒杜的活動顯著增加，我們將繼續支出這些費用直到第三季末。

Net-net, E&E was around $300 million higher than last year. More broadly, however, other options are progressing. And at the front-end of the pipeline, we now have the best exploration portfolio we've had for some time, having consistently invested in this area over the years.

E&E 淨額比去年增加了約 3 億美元。然而，更廣泛地說，其他選擇正在取得進展。在管道的前端，我們現在擁有一段時間以來最好的勘探投資組合，多年來一直在這一領域進行投資。

The cost picture is covered by several bars in this chart, but let me try and summarize what we're seeing in broad terms. Firstly, as foreseen at the half year, we did see the reversal of some market-based costs, particularly aluminum raw materials. You can see this in the first section of the chart.

這張圖表中的幾個長條圖涵蓋了成本情況，但讓我嘗試概括一下我們所看到的情況。首先，正如半年所預見的那樣，我們確實看到了一些市場成本的逆轉，特別是鋁原料。您可以在圖表的第一部分中看到這一點。

Secondly, many of our costs are under contracts, which renew periodically. As a consequence, the spike in inflation was only reflected in 2023 on renewal of these contracts. This process now looks to be largely complete. Thirdly, we continue to see some cost pressures from tight labor markets, particularly the Pilbara, Quebec and Utah. Again, these are in the unit cost variance.

其次，我們的許多成本都是根據合約進行的，並且會定期更新。因此，通貨膨脹的飆升僅在 2023 年續簽這些合約時反映出來。現在看來這個過程基本上已經完成。第三，我們繼續看到勞動市場緊張帶來的一些成本壓力，特別是皮爾巴拉、魁北克和猶他州。同樣，這些都在單位成本差異中。

We have separated out the effects of the operational disruptions at Kennecott and IFC. You can see on the chart that they drove up our unit costs to the tune of $600 million. Overall, we do believe a lot of the forces driving up costs are now starting to moderate, and we expect to see more stability in the cost base going forward.

我們已經區分了肯尼科特和國際金融公司營運中斷的影響。您可以在圖表中看到，它們使我們的單位成本增加了 6 億美元。總體而言，我們確實相信許多推高成本的因素現在開始減弱，我們預計未來成本基礎將更加穩定。

Our business continues to be highly cash generative. This chart reconciles EBITDA and cash flow. Our cash conversion ratio was 63% compared to 61% in 2022 when tax payments were substantially higher. At the half year, I did say I expected working capital to reduce in the second half, but instead, it stayed roughly flat. We saw reductions in some areas such as raw materials, but the extended Kennecott smelter shut and softness in the TiO2 market meant that the aggregate balance of inventory did not come down as expected.

我們的業務仍具有高度的現金產出能力。此圖表協調了 EBITDA 和現金流量。我們的現金轉換率為 63%，而 2022 年的現金轉換率為 61%，當時的納稅額大幅增加。在半年中，我確實說過預計下半年營運資金會減少，但實際上卻大致持平。我們看到原材料等一些領域的產量減少，但肯尼科特冶煉廠的長期關閉和二氧化鈦市場的疲軟意味著庫存總量餘額並未如預期下降。

This was compounded by the rise in the iron ore price late in the year, increasing balance sheet receivables. These were turned into cash in early 2024. We also had lower dividends from equity accounted units, mostly related to Escondida. Finally, the major driver of provisions is closure. We have a number of active projects underway with just under $800 million spent in 2023.

今年稍後鐵礦石價格上漲，導致資產負債表應收帳款增加，雪上加霜。這些資金於 2024 年初轉為現金。我們來自權益會計單位的股息也較低，主要與 Escondida 有關。最後，供應的主要驅動力是關閉。我們有許多正在進行的項目，到 2023 年花費將接近 8 億美元。

Looking forward, we expect to spend around $1 million per year as we advance activities at the various sites. Spend will vary year-to-year as we execute individual programs of work and we continue to look at structural opportunities to reduce our closure exposure.

展望未來，我們預計每年將花費約 100 萬美元來推進各個地點的活動。隨著我們執行個別工作計劃，支出每年都會有所不同，我們將繼續尋找結構性機會來減少關閉風險。

Onto product group performance. Iron ore had a strong year, its second highest on record for shipments. Gudai-Darri is at nameplate capacity, and we're extracting more volumes from the Safe Production System with a 5 million tonne uplift in 2023. We're targeting another 5 million tonnes this year with the combined 10 million tonne benefit delivering significant incremental value to the business.

關於產品組的表現。鐵礦石今年表現強勁，出貨量創史上第二高。 Gudai-Darri 已達到銘牌產能，我們將從安全生產系統中提取更多產量，到2023 年產量將增加500 萬噸。我們今年的目標是再增加500 萬噸，總計1000 萬噸的效益將帶來顯著的增量價值到企業。

We expect a small increase in unit costs in 2024, reflecting ongoing tight labor markets in Western Australia and costs associated with material movement and maintenance in our system. We're building a much stronger aluminum business. It was a tough year as the price dropped and margins compressed. However, as I said, Kitimat is now back to full capacity and we're making investments in North America that really strengthen this business for the future. These include investing in the AP60 technology and in Matalco, with the latter giving us exposure to recycled products.

我們預計 2024 年單位成本將小幅增加，反映出西澳大利亞勞動力市場持續緊張以及與我們系統中的物料運輸和維護相關的成本。我們正在打造更強大的鋁業業務。這是艱難的一年，價格下跌，利潤壓縮。然而，正如我所說，基蒂馬特現在已恢復滿載生產，我們正在北美進行投資，這將真正加強這項業務的未來。其中包括投資 AP60 技術和 Matalco，讓我們接觸到回收產品。

As Jakob mentioned, it is really positive to see the Oyu Tolgoi mine investment starting to pay off with the ramp-up of production from the underground. And at Kennecott, our focus is to stabilize the operation following the completion of the smelter rebuild.

正如雅各所提到的，隨著地下產量的增加，奧尤陶勒蓋礦場的投資開始獲得回報，這確實是一件正面的事情。在肯尼科特，我們的重點是在冶煉廠重建完成後穩定運作。

Lastly, it was a challenging year for minerals from both an operational and market perspective. IOC lost 1 month of production in June due to wildfires and we had some operational impacts in the third quarter. Whilst at our iron and titanium Quebec operations, 3 furnaces remain off-line in response to weak market conditions.

最後，從營運和市場角度來看，對於礦產來說，這是充滿挑戰的一年。由於野火，IOC 在 6 月損失了 1 個月的生產，我們在第三季的營運受到了一些影響。在我們魁北克的鋼鐵和鈦業務中，由於市場狀況疲軟，3 個熔爐仍處於離線狀態。

Moving on to capital allocation. You've seen this slide showing our approach many times. My key message today is that nothing has changed. Sustaining capital, higher returning replacement projects and decarbonization remain our first priority where we're forecasting around $7 billion of spend per year, unchanged from previous guidance.

繼續進行資本配置。您已經多次看到這張投影片展示了我們的方法。我今天的關鍵訊息是，一切都沒有改變。維持資本、更高回報的替代項目和脫碳仍然是我們的首要任務，我們預計每年支出約 70 億美元，與先前的指導保持不變。

That is followed by the ordinary dividend and then compelling growth. We believe that $3 billion remains the right level for us to invest in growth, and our largest project is expected to be our equity share of Simandou. While CapEx at Oyu Tolgoi underground will wind down as we complete key infrastructure investments.

接下來是普通股息，然後是引人注目的成長。我們相信，30億美元仍然是我們投資成長的合適水平，我們最大的項目預計將是我們在西芒杜的股權。隨著我們完成關鍵基礎建設投資，奧尤陶勒蓋地下的資本支出將逐漸減少。

We expect the remainder to be mainly invested in copper and lithium projects, some of which are yet to be sanctioned. But as I've said many times before, we will remain very disciplined. Our investments in growth are highly dependent on the timing of commitments, but most importantly, by our ability to generate value.

我們預計其餘部分將主要投資於銅和鋰項目，其中一些項目尚未獲得批准。但正如我之前多次說過的，我們將保持非常自律。我們對成長的投資很大程度上取決於承諾的時間，但最重要的是，取決於我們創造價值的能力。

Just turning now to the key financials for Simandou. As previously guided, we saw $900 million of spend incurred on the project in 2023, $500 million of which is our share and $400 million will be refunded by our Simfer JV partner, Chalco Iron Ore holdings. This includes $300 million of qualifying costs, which we started to capitalize from 1 October.

現在我們來看看西芒杜的主要財務數據。按照先前的指導，我們預計 2023 年該項目將花費 9 億美元，其中 5 億美元是我們的份額，4 億美元將由我們的 Simfer 合資夥伴中鋁鐵礦石控股公司退還。其中包括 3 億美元的合格成本，我們從 10 月 1 日起開始資本化。

In 2024, we expect our share of spend to be around $2 billion. Now I was very pleased actually to have the opportunity to visit the project last month. And I must say, I was pretty impressed to see the progress being made on the ground.

到 2024 年，我們預計支出份額將達到 20 億美元左右。現在我真的很高興上個月有機會參觀這個項目。我必須說，看到實地取得的進展給我留下了深刻的印象。

Finally, the dividend. We have declared a 60% payout for the full year, which equates to $7.1 billion and attractive dividend yield of more than 6%. We remain very consistent with our shareholder returns policy with a 60% payout on ordinary dividends and 71% total payout across the last 8 years. This highlights our continued discipline. Our net debt is unchanged year-on-year, and this financial strength, means we can accelerate our decarbonization investment, reinvest for growth and continue to pay attractive dividends through the cycle. And with that, let me hand back to Jakob.

最後是股息。我們宣布全年派息 60%，相當於 71 億美元，股息殖利率超過 6%，頗具吸引力。我們與股東回報政策保持非常一致，在過去 8 年中，普通股利支付率為 60%，總股利支付率為 71%。這凸顯了我們持續的紀律。我們的淨債務同比沒有變化，這種財務實力意味著我們可以加速脫碳投資，再投資以促進成長，並在整個週期中繼續支付有吸引力的股息。接下來，讓我把問題交還給雅各。

Thank you, Peter. Rio Tinto is opportunity-rich and well-positioned. Our core markets are growing. We are at the heart of the energy transition and new opportunities are emerging. We're stretching our capabilities, but we are not doing more than we can execute. This discipline allows us to pursue a stable and profitable growth pathway.

謝謝你，彼得。力拓擁有豐富的機會且處於有利位置。我們的核心市場正在成長。我們處於能源轉型的核心，新的機會正在出現。我們正在擴展我們的能力，但我們並沒有做超出我們能力範圍的事情。這種紀律使我們能夠追求穩定且有利可圖的成長道路。

Our overall copper equivalent gross or production was up by over 3% in 2023. Based on our midpoint production guidance for 2024, we expect a further 2% year-on-year growth. It was only 3 years ago that we defined our 4 objectives. We had some repair work to do then. Now we are going from strengths to strengths, and we are just getting started.

2023 年，我們的整體銅當量總產量或產量增加了 3% 以上。根據 2024 年的中點產量指引，我們預計將年比將進一步成長 2%。光是在三年前，我們就確定了 4 個目標。那時我們有一些修復工作要做。現在我們正在從一個優勢走向另一個優勢，而我們才剛開始。

Productivity at our Pilbara iron ore operation is really improving. We had the second highest shipments on record and a 5 million tonnes production uplift from the Safe Production System. Meanwhile, we are on track to deliver 1 million tonnes of copper per annum by the end of the decade with the ramp-up of the Oyu Tolgoi on track.

我們皮爾巴拉鐵礦石業務的生產力確實在提高。我們的出貨量創史上第二高，安全生產系統的產量提高了 500 萬噸。同時，隨著奧尤陶勒蓋礦的產能增加，我們預計在本世紀末每年交付 100 萬噸銅。

And decarbonization remains at the heart of our strategy. We're committed to reducing our Scope 1 and 2 emissions by 50% by 2030 and reaching net zero by 2050. We're also working closely with our customers to help them beat their own targets addressing our Scope 3.

脫碳仍然是我們策略的核心。我們致力於在 2030 年將範圍 1 和範圍 2 的排放量減少 50%，並在 2050 年實現淨零排放。我們還與客戶密切合作，幫助他們實現範圍 3 的目標。

We have said from the start, this is both a huge challenge and a huge opportunity, and there's still uncertainty in the delivery. But we have created more definition around how we will achieve our targets, and I believe we are finding an economical pathway in partnerships with governments, customers and communities.

我們從一開始就說過，這既是一個巨大的挑戰，也是一個巨大的機遇，而且交付還存在不確定性。但我們已經圍繞著如何實現目標制定了更多定義，我相信我們正在與政府、客戶和社區合作找到一條經濟途徑。

On decarbonization, we are moving from strategy and target setting to real actions and we are making these strides in a way that makes good business sense. We're making progress with renewables most significantly repowering our aluminum Pacific operation, a hugely challenging but vital part of our decarbonization journey.

在脫碳方面，我們正在從策略和目標設定轉向實際行動，並且我們正在以具有良好商業意義的方式取得這些進展。我們在再生能源方面取得的進展最顯著的是為我們的太平洋鋁業業務提供動力，這是我們脫碳之旅中極具挑戰性但至關重要的一部分。

At the same time, we're using research and development to reimagine our manufacturing processes, including a breakthrough piloting of our BlueSmelting technology, which reduces emissions from processing ilmenite into titanium dioxide.

同時，我們正在利用研發來重新構想我們的製造工藝，包括 BlueSmelting 技術的突破性試點，該技術可減少將鈦鐵礦加工成二氧化鈦時的排放量。

Our amazing R&D teams are also making progress in many areas, including Nuton for copper and ELYSIS for aluminum. Finally, we're developing our aluminum business to offer a full suite of options. The Matalco joint venture in North America provides our customers will recycle aluminum at scale, complementing our portfolio of low-carbon primary aluminum.

我們出色的研發團隊也在許多領域取得了進展，包括銅的 Nuton 和鋁的 ELYSIS。最後，我們正在發展鋁業務以提供全套選擇。位於北美的 Matalco 合資企業將為我們的客戶提供大規模回收鋁的服務，補充我們的低碳原鋁產品組合。

We are also making focus important progress to decarbonize our iron ore business. We are working on over 50 projects to unlock the most sustainable and economic pathways for our iron ores, future-proofing our business in a way that makes good business sense.

我們在鐵礦石業務脫碳方面也取得重要進展。我們正在進行 50 多個項目，為我們的鐵礦石開闢最可持續、最經濟的途徑，以具有良好商業意義的方式為我們的業務提供面向未來的保障。

We recently announced a partnership with BHP and BlueScope to develop Australia's first iron-making electric smelting furnace pilot plant. By sharing our capabilities and knowledge, we can accelerate our progress. We are again leveraging our extensive R&D capabilities. We are excited about BioIron to support low-carbon steelmaking.

我們最近宣布與必和必拓和博思格合作開發澳洲第一個煉鐵電熔爐試驗工廠。透過分享我們的能力和知識，我們可以加速我們的進步。我們再次利用我們廣泛的研發能力。我們對 BioIron 支持低碳煉鋼感到興奮。

And finally, we are using high-grade iron ore from Canada to help feed and accelerate low-carbon steelmaking. Simandou's high-grade, low impurity formation is a rare opportunity to diversify and grow our portfolio, particularly as demand increases for grade suitable for greener steel.

最後，我們使用來自加拿大的高品位鐵礦石來幫助供應和加速低碳煉鋼。 Simandou 的高品位、低雜質形成是我們產品組合多樣化和發展的難得機會，特別是隨著對適合綠色鋼材的品位的需求增加。

At our Investor Day in December, we gave our estimate for our share of the capital expenditure needed to unlock this exceptional project. And the Rio Tinto Board has this week approved the project, subject to the remaining conditions being met. This includes joint venture partner approvals and regulatory approvals from China and Guinea.

在 12 月的投資者日，我們對解鎖這個特殊項目所需的資本支出份額進行了估算。力拓董事會本週已批准該項目，但需滿足其餘條件。這包括合資夥伴的批准以及中國和幾內亞監管機構的批准。

We are engaging with authorities in Guinea following the dissolution of the government. But we have been in Guinea for 50 years, and we have safely continued our operations throughout. We expect that will continue to be the case. We are working with our partners towards full sanction of Simandou and we're really excited about this project.

在政府解散後，我們正在與幾內亞當局接觸。但我們已經在幾內亞經營了 50 年，並且始終安全地繼續經營。我們預計這種情況將持續下去。我們正在與我們的合作夥伴合作，爭取全面批准西芒杜，我們對這個計畫感到非常興奮。

We have much more work to do but we are already well positioned to continue delivering value to our shareholders. At Rio Tinto, we are gradually changing the culture of our company. It's a long journey. But in the last 3 weeks, I've been to 6 assets, and I'm pleased to see that the culture change is actually really happening. We are focusing towards a work place where people feel included, respected, empowered and step up and take accountability.

我們還有很多工作要做，但我們已經做好了繼續為股東創造價值的準備。在力拓，我們正在逐步改變公司文化。這是一段漫長的旅程。但在過去的 3 周里，我去過 6 個資產，我很高興看到文化變革確實正在發生。我們致力於打造一個讓員工感到被包容、被尊重、被賦予權力、能夠挺身而出、承擔責任的工作場所。

We're improving the asset health, learning from still too many operational challenges and improving access to ore bodies in close partnerships with Traditional Owners. And I hope those of you who joined us at our Investor Day got a taste of our exploration pipeline, one of the best we ever had.

我們正在改善資產健康狀況，從太多的營運挑戰中吸取教訓，並與傳統所有者密切合作，改善獲取礦體的機會。我希望那些參加我們投資者日的人能夠體驗我們的勘探管道，這是我們有史以來最好的管道之一。

These are the foundations of our success, operational improvements with a learning mindset and in parallel, developing a portfolio for the future with a focus on decarbonization. We're also delivering for today with disciplined growth and attractive financials that allow us to reward our shareholders and invest in the health of our business. Our business is robust, we are opportunity-rich, and the best, I believe, is yet to come. Thank you.

這些是我們成功的基礎，以學習心態改善運營，同時開發以脫碳為重點的未來產品組合。今天，我們也以嚴格的成長和有吸引力的財務狀況來實現目標，這使我們能夠回報股東並投資於我們業務的健康發展。我們的業務強勁，機會豐富，我相信最好的尚未到來。謝謝。

Great. Thank you, Jakob and Peter. It's now time for Q&A. Also thank you for those in Sydney and Melbourne for staying late today. It's much appreciated. So we'll start Q&A. (Operator Instructions) We'll start with one in the room, and then we'll take 2 on the phone, and then we'll get 2 back here. We have enough time for the next 49 minutes, so we'll get through it. I think someone has to (inaudible) -- Rich, do you want to start?

偉大的。謝謝雅各和彼得。現在是問答時間。也要感謝雪梨和墨爾本的人們今天熬夜。非常感謝。那我們將開始問答。 （操作員說明）我們將從房間內的 1 個開始，然後透過電話獲取 2 個，然後我們將在此處獲取 2 個。接下來的 49 分鐘我們有足夠的時間，所以我們會度過難關。我認為一定有人（聽不清楚）－ Rich，你想開始嗎？

Richard Hatch from Berenberg. First question, on iron ore costs. Can you just talk to us a bit about how you're going to get to that medium-term target of $20? I think the guidance is about sort of for this year is a good sort of 10%, 15% above that. So I guess there's going to be some productivity, some levers. Your peers seem to be cutting costs, perhaps that's going to impact their medium-term flexibility. So can you just talk about what you're going to do to get there?

來自貝倫貝格的理查德·哈奇。第一個問題，關於鐵礦石成本。您能和我們談談您將如何實現 20 美元的中期目標嗎？我認為今年的指導值大約是 10%、15%。所以我想將會有一些生產力，一些槓桿。您的同行似乎正在削減成本，這也許會影響他們的中期靈活性。那麼您能談談您將採取什麼措施來實現這一目標嗎？

So look, I'll ask Peter to explain the exact pathway to get there. But what is absolutely clear, and you might say that this year's unit cost target is not super stretchy. I want people in the Pilbara to get the maintenance done. To get every time we have an issue, to take the full learning and make sure that we address it systemically because it's so wonderful assets, and it deserves to be in the best possible shape. So the first point is -- the first game is not the unit cost. It's a long game where you have to get there. And what I -- I was just at Tom Price 2 weeks ago. And when I saw what they are doing there -- Tom Price is like 65 years' old. What they're doing now is fundamentally making the plant much better and can get it back to close to nameplate capacity. Things have changed a lot since it was built, et cetera. But I see that we are structurally doing the right things. So the SPS system is kicking in much, much more focus on asset management. I'm old school, calling it maintenance. Spending the money in the right way, having more internal resources to get the job done in the right way. That is just improving us and that will get us to our medium-term target. Peter, do you want to comment on how we get the numbers right?

所以看，我會請彼得解釋到達那裡的確切路徑。但絕對清楚的是，你可能會說今年的單位成本目標並不是超級有彈性。我希望皮爾巴拉的人們能夠完成維護工作。每次我們遇到問題時，都要充分學習並確保我們有系統地解決它，因為它是如此美妙的資產，並且它應該處於最佳狀態。所以第一點是──第一個遊戲不是單位成本。這是一場漫長的比賽，你必須到達那裡。兩週前我還在 Tom Price。當我看到他們在那裡做什麼時——湯姆·普萊斯 (Tom Price) 已經 65 歲了。他們現在所做的就是從根本上使工廠變得更好，並使其恢復到接近銘牌產能。自建成以來，情況發生了很大變化，等等。但我發現我們在結構上正在做正確的事。因此，SPS 系統越來越注重資產管理。我是老派，稱之為維護。以正確的方式花錢，擁有更多的內部資源以正確的方式完成工作。這只是在改善我們，這將使我們實現中期目標。彼得，你想評論一下我們如何得到正確的數字嗎？

Absolutely. So I mean if we look at 2024, I mean we've taken the bottom of that range based on really what we achieved in the second half of 2023. And then we are still seeing tight labor markets on top of that, and we still have a system where we need to do more material movement and some more maintenance as sort of Jakob says. So I think that then sets the top. And really the -- where we land is going to be how well we drive productivity through the system. And I think there is real momentum, but that's going to be the factor which drives it down. I mean we said $20, 2023 terms. I mean we'll sort of then have a set of more investments in the middle of the decade, which helps sort of strengthen the system as well towards that midterm. But it's a combination of sort of renewing the asset base or the mine base, if you like, and driving that productivity and maintenance. That's going to get us to the $20, real 2023.

絕對地。因此，我的意思是，如果我們展望2024 年，我的意思是，我們已經根據2023 年下半年取得的實際成果，確定了該範圍的底部。除此之外，我們仍然看到勞動力市場緊張，而且我們仍然正如雅各所說，我們需要在一個系統中進行更多的物料運輸和更多的維護。所以我認為這就是頂部。事實上，我們的目標將是我們如何透過系統提高生產力。我認為確實有動力，但這將是推動其下滑的因素。我的意思是我們說的是 2023 年條件下的 20 美元。我的意思是，我們將在這個十年的中期進行一系列更多的投資，這也有助於在中期加強該系統。但這是更新資產基礎或礦山基礎（如果你願意的話）以及提高生產力和維護的結合。這將使我們在 2023 年達到真正的 20 美元。

Okay. Helpful. Second one is just on your TiO2 sort of business. Salty South has been on hold for a long time. If you look at the small cap arena, you've put your foot on sovereign some of the other small cap names, there's no value attributed to the market. You've got this BlueSmelting for ilmenite. Does -- would you consider inorganic opportunities for mispriced ilmenite assets, such can their base, something like that? Or are you happy with what you've got in the portfolio?

好的。有幫助。第二個是關於 TiO2 之類的業務。咸南已經擱置很久了。如果你看看小型股領域，你會發現其他一些小型股的主權，市場沒有任何價值。您已經獲得了適用於鈦鐵礦的 BlueSmelting。您是否會考慮定價錯誤的鈦鐵礦資產的無機機會，例如它們的基礎，類似的東西？或者您對投資組合中的內容感到滿意嗎？

I love our titanium slag business, but it is not without challenges. It's actually the product where we have the highest global market share. It's quite a unique body, but we need to make sure that our manufacturing sites has got sufficiently feed from the mining. And therefore, we are actually relooking again at the Salty South that will be really, really good to unlock that part. I do think that BlueSmelting is very important because Sorel is the world's largest producer of titanium slag. It has got 1.1 million tonnes of CO2 emission. And we think that there's a pathway to fundamentally decarbonize that. So that 70-year-old site could get a complete new life. But around the manufacturing, we have a Sorel and we have at Richards Bay. It's really world scale. And we just need to be sure we can feed the system. On top of that, there are some challenges in terms of the customer landscape is changing, and we need to be sure that our business fit the needs of the customer for the future. So we are looking at things and how to address it. I don't necessarily think that it will require inorganic things. We are doing a bit of exploration as well, and we might actually find some -- we are looking at some very interesting prospects there. So I see a great business that does not necessarily require a big M&A.

我喜歡我們的鈦渣業務，但它並非沒有挑戰。這實際上是我們在全球市場份額最高的產品。這是一個非常獨特的機構，但我們需要確保我們的生產基礎從採礦中獲得足夠的飼料。因此，我們實際上正在重新審視鹹水南部，這對於解鎖這部分來說真的非常非常好。我確實認為 BlueSmelting 非常重要，因為 Sorel 是世界上最大的鈦渣生產商。二氧化碳排放量為110萬噸。我們認為有一條途徑可以從根本上實現脫碳。讓這座擁有70年歷史的遺址獲得全新的生命。但在製造方面，我們有 Sorel，我們在理查茲灣也有。這確實是世界規模的。我們只需要確保我們能夠滿足系統的需求。最重要的是，客戶格局正在發生變化，我們面臨一些挑戰，我們需要確保我們的業務能夠滿足客戶未來的需求。所以我們正在研究問題以及如何解決它。我不一定認為它需要無機的東西。我們也在做一些探索，我們可能真的會發現一些——我們正在那裡尋找一些非常有趣的前景。所以我認為偉大的企業不一定需要大規模的併購。

Operator, can we take 2 questions from the line, please?

接線員，我們可以回答 2 個問題嗎？

Yes, of course. Now we're going to take the first question, and the question comes from the line of Paul Young from Goldman Sachs.

是的當然。現在我們要回答第一個問題，這個問題來自高盛的Paul Young。

Jakob, first question is on capital allocation. The balance sheet is strong. The growth pipeline is best in years. The dividend payout at 60%, but what's missing from here is the buyback. What we know the limitations with the major shareholders. So now that you're committing to Simandou with Chinalco, perhaps you've spoken to Chinalco about them potentially selling into buyback?

雅各布，第一個問題是關於資本配置。資產負債表強勁。成長通路是多年來最好的。股息支付率為 60%，但這裡缺少的是回購。據我們所知，大股東的限制。那麼，既然您與中鋁公司一起致力於西芒杜，也許您已經與中鋁公司討論過他們可能會出售併回購？

Yes. It's a highly relevant question, and it reminds me as CEO, I always have things that I haven't done. And it's probably a dialogue that we need to do. It's been very intense and we have very much deepened our ties to both Chinalco and Baowu in going through the Simandou process. But I do think, Paul, it's a little bit less urgent than it was in the past. If you look back in time, we had a decade where we didn't grow. And if you don't grow as a company, then of course, it's hyper important on how well you're sending cash back to the shareholders. Now, we are growing 2% to 3% a year, profitable growing. And we are paying at the top of our policy, we are consistently paying 60%. But actually, at the end of the day, 60% of our net income growth -- net income stream. So if you can grow the income stream, that's probably a quite good way. And of course, it goes without saying, it requires a little bit more CapEx to create that growth than in the past.

是的。這是一個高度相關的問題，它提醒我作為首席執行官，我總是有一些未完成的事情。這可能是我們需要進行的對話。這是非常激烈的，透過西曼杜流程，我們大大加深了與中鋁和寶武的連結。但我確實認為，保羅，現在的迫切性比過去低。如果你回顧過去，我們有十年沒有成長。如果你的公司沒有成長，那麼當然，你向股東返還現金的情況就非常重要。現在，我們每年成長 2% 到 3%，獲利不斷成長。我們支付保單的最高費用，我們一直支付 60%。但實際上，歸根究底，我們淨收入成長的 60% 是淨收入流。因此，如果你能增加收入來源，這可能是個很好的方法。當然，不言而喻，與過去相比，需要更多的資本支出來創造這種成長。

If you look at the past, our CapEx composition was mainly sustainable CapEx, replacement mines, et cetera. Now we have a bigger growth component plus we cannot take away from the fact there, Paul, that we do need to put some capital towards decarbonizing our business. And that is kind of, in my view, future-proofing it. But it kind of takes a little bit the pressure off. I don't want to rule it out. And I think you're right, when you look at the numbers, we are plus $100 billion company with only a couple of billion dollars of debt. So we could pay more back. Yes, I'll take up the challenge and I'll probably talk a bit more about that.

如果你回顧過去，我們的資本支出組成主要是永續資本支出、替代礦場等。現在我們有了更大的成長成分，而且我們不能否認這樣一個事實，保羅，我們確實需要投入一些資金來實現我們業務的脫碳。在我看來，這可以說是面向未來的。但這可以減輕一點壓力。我不想排除這種可能性。我認為你是對的，當你看一下這些數字時，你會發現我們是一家價值 1000 億美元的公司，但債務卻只有幾十億美元。這樣我們就可以付出更多。是的，我會接受這個挑戰，我可能會更多地談論這一點。

Okay. That's great. Look forward to that. And then second question, Jakob is on the copper growth and CapEx inflation. Peter called out labor inflation in the Pilbara, U.S. and Canada, but he didn't mention Chile. We saw (inaudible) announced that they're deferring the new concentrate Escondida by 1 to 2 years due to CapEx inflation. It looks like they're preferring to expand the heap-leach. Just curious what's your view on this decision?

好的。那太棒了。期待這一點。第二個問題，雅各是關於銅的成長和資本支出通膨。彼得指出了皮爾巴拉、美國和加拿大的勞動力通貨膨脹，但他沒有提到智利。我們看到（聽不清楚）宣布，由於資本支出通膨，他們將把新的濃縮物 Escondida 推遲 1 到 2 年。看起來他們更喜歡擴大堆浸。只是好奇您對這個決定有何看法？

Yes. Look, I think BHP and Rio has only improved its cooperation in the last few years, both on resolution and on Escondida. And I think BHP are taking very sound decisions here. We shouldn't forget we have been extracting from Escondida for 20, 30 years and is still the world's largest copper ore body. It is an amazing ore body. But obviously, what we need to do is get the value out. And therefore, if we can find a solution that has lower capital intensity, that's great. We're also testing at Escondida, our Nuton technology. And if we can really get leaching to work at scale, it goes without saying that that's much cheaper than the very capital-intensive concentrator route.

是的。看，我認為必和必拓和力拓在過去幾年中只是在解決方案和埃斯康迪達方面的合作有所改善。我認為必和必拓在這裡做出了非常明智的決定。我們不應該忘記，我們已經在埃斯孔迪達開採 20、30 年了，而且仍然是世界上最大的銅礦體。這是一個令人驚奇的礦體。但顯然，我們需要做的就是把價值拿出來。因此，如果我們能找到資本密集度較低的解決方案，那就太好了。我們也在 Escondida 測試我們的 Nuton 技術。如果我們真的能夠大規模地進行浸出工作，那麼不言而喻，這比資本密集型選礦廠路線便宜得多。

And the next question comes from the line of Kaan Peker from RBC.

下一個問題來自 RBC 的 Kaan Peker。

First question is on Rio sales. Just wondering if you've been able to achieve preferential terms with customers for low-carbon products, particularly this year, as we see decarbonization efforts pick up and I suppose more talking towards the aluminum low-carbon assets?

第一個問題是關於裡約熱內盧的銷售。只是想知道您是否能夠與客戶就低碳產品達成優惠條件，特別是今年，因為我們看到脫碳工作有所加強，而且我想更多地談論鋁低碳資產？

Yes. Thank you. We do get a premium. But if you ask me, but actually, it doesn't matter what the premium will be. I would always give you the answer that is not high enough. But it is -- we do get a premium, but it's in the teens of dollars per ton, and it should be in the hundreds of dollars of tonnes. But -- so there's work to be done. It's too early. We only closed the deal with Matalco on 1st of December. But let's just face it. It is an amazing opportunity to now being at scale, a producer of both primary and secondary aluminum and our customer loves it, and we need to turn it in. So it doesn't just become a win for the customer, but it becomes a win both for the customer and for Rio Tinto.

是的。謝謝。我們確實得到了溢價。但如果你問我，實際上，保費是多少並不重要。我總是會給你不夠高的答案。但事實是——我們確實得到了溢價，但每噸只有幾十美元，而應該是數百美元噸。但是——所以還有工作要做。太早了。我們直到 12 月 1 日才與 Matalco 完成了交易。但讓我們面對現實吧。對於現在規模化的原鋁和再生鋁生產商來說，這是一個絕佳的機會，我們的客戶喜歡它，我們需要將其上交。因此，它不僅成為客戶的勝利，而且成為為客戶和力拓贏得雙贏。

Sure. And my second question is on OT. I think over the last 6 months, underground volumes have been relatively flattish, but development has been progressing, including drawbells. When should we see the next step up in volumes out of the underground? Is it when the conveyor is complete in 2H?

當然。我的第二個問題是關於加班的。我認為在過去 6 個月中，地下容量相對持平，但開發一直在進步，包括放礦鈴。我們什麼時候才能看到地下開採量的下一步成長？是2H內傳送帶完成的時候嗎？

It goes -- I honestly believe it goes extremely well according to schedule. How would you describe it, Peter, the progress, ahead of us?

一切順利——老實說，我相信一切都按照計劃進行得非常順利。彼得，你會如何描述我們面前的進展？

Yes, completely right. I mean I think we'll just continue to ramp up into 2024 from the first panel. That's key, and we're still on track for that ramp up to 500,000 tonnes in 2028. And all the infrastructure development is still on track for all the guidance we've given with the secondary crusher -- second crusher finished at the back end of 2025.

是的，完全正確。我的意思是，我認為我們將從第一個小組繼續推進到 2024 年。這是關鍵，我們仍然預計在 2028 年將產量提高到 50 萬噸。按照我們為二級破碎機提供的所有指導，所有基礎設施開發仍然按計劃進行——第二台破碎機在後端完成2025年。

I think my short answer is that there's plenty of challenges around in Rio Tinto, but I'm struggling to see the things that goes wrong in Oyu Tolgoi. I'm very impressed with that development.

我想我的簡短回答是，力拓面臨許多挑戰，但我很難看到奧尤陶勒蓋出現的問題。我對這種發展印象非常深刻。

Jason? And then Bob Brackett.

傑森？然後是鮑勃·布拉克特。

So Jason Fairclough, Bank of America. Just a question, I guess, about a commodity, which I think is absent from your presentation, which is lithium, right? So we was not long ago, everybody was quite excited about it. Price is down 85%. Some people would look at this and say, "Isn't this a great opportunity to do some inorganic growth." So how are you thinking about lithium? How are you thinking about using that balance sheet? How are you thinking about Alcan?

美國銀行的 Jason Fairclough 就是這樣。我想，這只是關於一種商品的問題，我認為您的演示中沒有這種商品，那就是鋰，對吧？所以我們不久前，每個人都對此感到非常興奮。價格下降了85%。有些人可能會說：“這不是一個進行無機增長的好機會嗎？”那麼您如何看待鋰呢？您如何考慮使用該資產負債表？您對阿爾坎有何看法？

I think, Jason, and Peter is often reminding me that it takes us back to a very good old mentor of Rio Tinto, namely, it's not just about we are excited about a product -- a certain product. No, we are interested in getting into the best ore bodies, and we need to develop things at the left side of the cost curve. And we actually believe that the development in Argentina can be a very good development. And we believe that one of the best ore bodies that exist in the industry is in Serbia. But we do need to get the government's approval. We do need to get social license for being able to develop that. So that's really where our focus is. And yes, it's down 85%, but it's actually just back to where it was before the bubble. We have always said lithium prices are bound to be extremely volatile. But I will say to you when it comes to battery materials, and I think that's very important. And I owe a great thanks to our Chief Economist that many years ago, said to us, it's very difficult to predict how batteries will develop, but it looks like almost any composition will have lithium. And that's exactly what is happening. You've seen in China now 2/3 of batteries are LFP, i.e., without cobalt and nickel, but with lithium in. So I do believe in lithium, but don't expect us just to go out and also grow. Lithium, we'll be thinking about what are the strong ore bodies where we can use technology and develop something really, really good. And yes, prices have gone down on lithium companies, but not as much as a price of lithium in itself. So you could argue that they're still very expensive.

我認為，傑森和彼得經常提醒我，這讓我們想起了力拓一位非常好的老導師，即，這不僅僅是我們對某種產品——某種產品感到興奮。不，我們有興趣進入最好的礦體，我們需要開發成本曲線左側的東西。我們實際上相信阿根廷的發展可以是一個非常好的發展。我們相信，該行業中存在的最好的礦體之一位於塞爾維亞。但我們確實需要得到政府的批准。我們確實需要獲得社會許可才能發展這一點。這確實是我們的重點。是的，它下降了 85%，但實際上只是回到了泡沫之前的水平。我們一直說鋰價必然會極度波動。但我要對你說的是，當談到電池材料時，我認為這非常重要。我非常感謝我們的首席經濟學家，多年前他對我們說，很難預測電池將如何發展，但看起來幾乎所有成分都含有鋰。這正是正在發生的事情。你已經看到，現在中國 2/3 的電池是磷酸鐵鋰，即不含鈷和鎳，但含有鋰。所以我確實相信鋰，但不要指望我們會走出去並實現增長。鋰，我們將思考什麼是堅固的礦體，我們可以在其中使用技術並開發出真正非常好的東西。是的，鋰公司的價格有下降，但幅度還沒有鋰本身的價格下降。所以你可能會說它們仍然非常昂貴。

Can I just push you on this a little bit?

我可以稍微推你一下嗎？

You should.

你應該。

So the projects that you're talking about, I mean, for a little while, it seemed like the one in Serbia was approved and then it wasn't approved. But when we put it in the model, it wasn't really that material. And so I suppose to push you, inorganic growth could give you scale that's maybe more appropriate for a $100 billion company than a little organic growth project in Argentina or Serbia?

所以你所說的項目，我的意思是，有一段時間，塞爾維亞的項目似乎獲得了批准，然後又沒有獲得批准。但當我們把它放入模型中時，它並不是真正的材料。因此，我想向您提出，無機成長可以為您帶來規模，這可能比阿根廷或塞爾維亞的小型有機成長項目更適合價值 1000 億美元的公司？

I love to be pushed and sometimes I push back. May I remind you that the world markets for aluminum is 98 million tonnes. The world market for copper is 32 million tonnes, and the world market last year for lithium was 0.8 million tonnes. It's just different scales.

我喜歡被推，有時也會反擊。我想提醒您，世界鋁市場容量為 9800 萬噸。去年世界銅市場量為3,200萬噸，去年世界鋰市場量為80萬噸。只是尺度不同而已。

We'll go right to left. Sorry.

我們將從右向左走。對不起。

Bob Brackett at Bernstein. You've guided to less than but approaching $3 billion of growth CapEx this year, next year following year. For the first 2 years, the moving pieces are quite clear. In year 3, they're less clear. You've got competing opportunities perhaps. So the 2 questions would be: one, what's competing sort of explicitly copper and lithium, but a little more specifically? And two, why do they have to compete? Why are you capping growth CapEx at $3 billion if the projects hit hurdle rates and clearly, you can fund them?

伯恩斯坦的鮑勃·布拉克特。您已指導今年和明年的資本支出成長低於但接近 30 億美元。在最初的兩年裡，變化非常明顯。在第三年，他們就不太清楚了。也許你有競爭的機會。因此，兩個問題是：第一，銅和鋰之間的競爭是什麼，更具體一點？第二，為什麼他們必須競爭？如果這些項目達到了最低標準，並且顯然您可以為它們提供資金，為什麼您要將成長資本支出限制在 30 億美元？

I completely agree with that. Now Peter has a role to do to make sure that there is money. But I actually look completely different at it. I look at our pool of technical resources. And I ask ourselves, how much can we do? And I hate if they only have a halftime job. So I like to stretch them. But I have tried before in my career when I was in energy to see what happens to a company if a company undertakes one project too many, then all the project starts falling apart. And I just don't want to get real there. So it's really an assessment of what are we able to do. I am, for example, very happy that we're doing Simandou with 3 partners because that means that our scope is less than half, and that is executable. I'm also very happy that we took in First Quantum to help us. They are actually driving the development of La Granja because when we decided to do Rincon, I realized we could not do La Granja. La Granja is a much more complex project than Rincon. So it's much more that kind of what our technical capability stretch them, but not overstretch them.

我完全同意這一點。現在，彼得有責任確保有錢。但其實我的看法完全不同。我查看了我們的技術資源庫。我問自己，我們能做多少？我討厭他們只有半職工作。所以我喜歡拉伸它們。但在我的職業生涯中，當我精力充沛時，我曾嘗試過看看如果一家公司承擔一個專案太多，那麼所有專案都會開始崩潰，那麼公司會發生什麼事。我只是不想變得真實。所以這實際上是對我們能夠做什麼的評估。例如，我很高興我們與 3 個合作夥伴一起進行 Simandou，因為這意味著我們的範圍不到一半，而且是可執行的。我也很高興我們聘請了 First Quantum 來幫助我們。他們實際上正在推動 La Granja 的發展，因為當我們決定做 Rincon 時，我意識到我們無法做 La Granja。 La Granja 是一個比 Rincon 複雜得多的項目。因此，更多的是我們的技術能力對它們的延伸，但不是過度延伸。

So that was sort of the second half of the question. By absence, it's interesting the word resolution, I couldn't find it in the materials, and we've mentioned some other projects. What are the projects that are competing for that technical capability?

這就是問題的後半部。由於缺席，決議這個詞很有趣，我在材料中找不到它，我們提到了一些其他項目。有哪些項目正在爭奪該技術能力？

No, no. But -- resolution, I really believe in resolution, and I was in Washington, D.C. last week, and I'm talking to it. But okay, it's not a big presentation here today because the reality is it's not in my hand, for the next step. We need to see the land swap happening. We're doing -- I'm so pleased with the local team. We are engaging with all the First Nations' people, and we are making really good progress there. But as you know, there is also a dispute in the Ninth Circuit and we'll have to await the outcome of that.

不，不。但是——決心，我真的相信決心，上週我在華盛頓特區，我正在與它交談。但好吧，今天在這裡的演講並不重要，因為現實是下一步不在我手中。我們需要看到土地交換的發生。我們正在做——我對當地團隊非常滿意。我們正在與所有原住民進行接觸，我們正在那裡取得非常好的進展。但如您所知，第九巡迴法院也存在爭議，我們必須等待結果。

Before we go back online, Bob, Page 15 of the press release resolution in the future options table -- you nearly got me in trouble here young man. We'll talk about it afterwards.

在我們回到網上之前，鮑勃，未來選項表中新聞稿決議的第 15 頁——你差點給我帶來麻煩了，年輕人。我們稍後再談。

Nadia, can we have 2 more questions from the line, please, before we go back in the room?

納迪亞，在我們回到房間之前，我們還能再問兩個問題嗎？

Yes, of course. Now we're going to take the question from the line of Rahul Anand from Morgan Stanley.

是的當然。現在我們將回答摩根士丹利拉胡爾·阿南德 (Rahul Anand) 提出的問題。

Look, 2 for me. Firstly, in terms of Simandou, this has been well flagged for some time. But looking at the sustaining CapEx numbers of $1 a tonne at the mine and $2 a tonne at the infrastructure side, I just wanted to test you on those estimates a bit and try to figure out if we compare these numbers to what's being achieved in the Pilbara, admittedly for older assets and even if we look at Fortescue's assets, which are more recent, the numbers are significantly higher, and these are life of mine estimates. So is this asset or project being built differently that you can keep those sustaining costs as low?

看，給我2個。首先，就西芒杜而言，這個問題已經被明確標記了一段時間。但是，看看礦山每噸 1 美元和基礎設施方面每噸 2 美元的持續資本支出數字，我只是想對這些估計進行一些測試，並嘗試弄清楚我們是否將這些數字與在皮爾巴拉，誠然，對於較舊的資產，即使我們看看Fortescue 的較新的資產，數字也明顯更高，而且這些是礦山壽命的估計。那麼，該資產或項目是否以不同的方式構建，以便您可以將這些維持成本保持在較低水平？

And then for my follow-up, Slide 10 talks about more flat steel use. Just wanted to get your views on how you see that feeding into additional iron ore demand this year and perhaps into next year, if you've done any sort of internal modeling around scrap use? That's my 2.

接下來，投影片 10 討論了更多扁鋼的使用。只是想聽聽您對今年或明年鐵礦石需求增加的看法，如果您對廢鋼使用進行了任何內部建模？那是我的2。

Peter?

彼得？

So I think you actually said it yourself in terms of those sustaining capital numbers. I mean, these are new assets. We are talking life of mine sort of overall averages that will be inflated up because these are real terms numbers that we've given. So I don't think there's anything I'd particularly point to. I think we're -- those are the numbers that we're using and I think pretty comfortable with them that were embedded in Simandou modeling.

所以我認為您實際上自己就這些維持資本數字說了算。我的意思是，這些都是新資產。我們談論的是我的生活，總體平均值會被誇大，因為這些是我們給出的實際數字。所以我認為沒有什麼特別要指出的。我認為我們——這些是我們正在使用的數字，我認為對嵌入西芒杜建模中的這些數字非常滿意。

And steel too -- the China steel...

還有鋼鐵——中國鋼鐵...

Yes. I mean well, I think we've seen 4 years, as I said, of kind of steel production, crude steel production over 1 billion tonnes. And that's clearly been good for iron ore. This year, clearly, well, '23, clearly, the 84 million tonnes of exports were an important component part of that. But absolutely, we've always said that we would see sort of China steel demand peaking, and it's exactly what we've said. And then you just see demand sort of from elsewhere in ASEAN and in India growing as well. So I think all of this is playing out exactly pretty much as we thought it would play out over time.

是的。我的意思是，正如我所說，我認為我們已經看到了 4 年的鋼鐵產量，粗鋼產量超過 10 億噸。這顯然對鐵礦石有利。今年，顯然，23 年，8,400 萬噸的出口量是其中的重要組成部分。但絕對的是，我們總是說我們會看到中國鋼鐵需求達到頂峰，而這正是我們所說的。然後你會看到東協其他地區和印度的需求也在成長。所以我認為這一切都與我們想像的一樣隨著時間的推移而發生。

Peter, just to quickly follow up on that. Just you flagged how manufacturing is increasing as a proportion. And I guess my question is more around the use of scrap in the mix of steel production. And obviously, when you move away from scrap, iron ore units continue to rise. Is that a trend that you think continues perhaps to support the iron ore market? Is that part of your internal modeling as well because you presented solar cell production up a lot and a lot of other manufacturing uses of steel rising, which then obviously leads to better demand for iron ore units as scrap use becomes reduced.

彼得，我只是想快速跟進。剛才您指出了製造業的成長比例。我想我的問題更多是圍繞著鋼鐵生產中廢料的使用。顯然，當你遠離廢鋼時，鐵礦石單位繼續上升。您認為這種趨勢可能會繼續支撐鐵礦石市場嗎？這也是您內部模型的一部分，因為您提出了太陽能電池產量的大幅增長以及鋼鐵的許多其他製造用途的增加，隨著廢鋼使用量的減少，這顯然會導致對鐵礦石單位的需求增加。

Yes. So certainly, in all our modeling, we would see scrap increasing, on an increasing trend as part of those overall iron units. So absolutely, absolutely right. So differentiating between the sort of change in the demand profile and the iron units that feed it. We absolutely see -- we see sort of that scrap of piece as being an important part of the mix.

是的。因此，當然，在我們所有的模型中，我們都會看到廢鋼不斷增加，並且作為整體鋼鐵裝置的一部分，呈現不斷增加的趨勢。所以絕對，絕對正確。因此，需要區分需求狀況的變化和滿足需求的鋼鐵單位。我們絕對看到——我們認為那部分片段是混音的重要組成部分。

And the question comes from the line of Lyndon Fagan from JPMorgan.

這個問題來自摩根大通的林登費根。

The first one I had was just on the $1 billion a year spend on closure provisions or cash out the door on closure costs. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on the scope of work there? And I mean, are we just dragging that right indefinitely. I'm just trying to get a feel for how we schedule that and whether it inflates over time. And then the second question I had was just on the aluminum assets. So I guess still losing money in alumina -- at breakeven. I'm wondering whether the new power announcement today will help alleviate some costs and whether there's any benefits from that repowering agreement?

我的第一個想法是每年花 10 億美元用於關閉條款或現金支付關閉費用。我想知道您能否詳細說明那裡的工作範圍？我的意思是，我們是否只是無限期地拖延這個權利？我只是想了解我們如何安排它以及它是否會隨著時間的推移而膨脹。我的第二個問題是關於鋁資產的。所以我猜氧化鋁仍然在虧損——處於損益平衡狀態。我想知道今天宣布的新電力是否有助於減輕一些成本以及該重新供電協議是否有任何好處？

Thank you, Peter and the Audit Committee has very appropriately provided for closure, and it is a very big amount you can find in our annual report. But that is what goes with mining. And right now, of course, we are doing some of the world's largest closure project on EIA, Argyle and Gove in Australia and that's a big cash outflow in the years to come. I think the key thing is, at the end of the day, it just has to be done very, very well and we executed well. And we're looking at that I think they're really doing a great job in Gove. I think we have had troubles in EIA, but we are finding a pathway forward where we can do things in the most efficient way. And there has also been a bit noise on exactly what the scope should be in Argyle, but we're also finding the way there. Ultimately, you should think about it like projects. It just has to be really well scoped and setting a high bar, but really well scoped and then executed very, very well. Second part, your question on aluminum. It's a tough business in that sense, but it also represents a massive opportunity. We are the Western world's largest producer of aluminum. The Western world is structurally short in aluminum. And we are now also at scale into recyclable. So we are building a stronger and stronger aluminum business. And sometimes it's not a bad thing to do that while the profitability in the industry is low. It's too early to answer your question on what would it mean to the cost structure with the new renewable deal. So because we have done 2 things. The biggest solar farm in Australia, we are building the biggest wind farm in Australia, we are building. That was the announcement this morning. But ultimately, the next step has to come from the Queensland government and the Commonwealth, namely to offer Rio Tinto a competitively priced firming power. And if we can't get that to work, then we don't have a long-term solutions for our Pacific aluminum business. So you will have to wait a bit on getting your answers, but let me be very clear, we are super focused on that. We want to protect the Australian business, but we have to bear in mind that it is not an Australian business, it's an export business that competes with our aluminum in Canada that competes with aluminum from the Middle East, everywhere. So we need to make sure that it becomes competitive. But it is also probably the biggest manufacturing assets remaining in Australia. So it is -- I would argue we are in the same boat we should be interested in finding a viable pathway forward for those assets.

謝謝你，彼得和審計委員會非常適當地規定了關閉，這是一個非常大的數額，你可以在我們的年度報告中找到。但這就是採礦業的情況。當然，目前我們正在澳洲的 EIA、Argyle 和 Gove 進行一些世界上最大的關閉項目，這將是未來幾年的大量現金流出。我認為關鍵是，歸根結底，我們必須做得非常非常好，而且我們執行得很好。我們正在研究這一點，我認為他們在戈夫方面確實做得很好。我認為我們在環境影響評估方面遇到了麻煩，但我們正在尋找一條前進的道路，以最有效的方式做事。關於阿蓋爾的範圍到底應該是什麼也有一些噪音，但我們也在找到那裡的方法。最終，您應該像專案一樣思考它。它只需要非常好地確定範圍並設定一個高標準，但必須非常好地確定範圍，然後執行得非常非常好。第二部分，你關於鋁的問題。從這個意義上說，這是一項艱鉅的業務，但它也代表著巨大的機會。我們是西方世界最大的鋁生產商。西方世界存在結構性鋁短缺。我們現在也正在大規模地進行可回收。因此，我們正在打造越來越強大的鋁業業務。有時，在行業獲利能力較低的情況下這樣做並不是一件壞事。現在回答你關於新的再生能源協議對成本結構意味著什麼的問題還為時過早。因為我們做了兩件事。澳洲最大的太陽能發電場，我們正在建造澳洲最大的風電場，我們正在建造。這是今天早上的公告。但最終，下一步必須來自昆士蘭州政府和聯邦政府，即為力拓提供具有價格競爭力的穩固力量。如果我們不能做到這一點，那麼我們的太平洋鋁業業務就沒有長期解決方案。因此，您將需要等待一段時間才能得到答案，但讓我非常明確的是，我們非常關注這一點。我們希望保護澳洲企業，但我們必須記住，這不是澳洲企業，而是出口企業，與我們在加拿大的鋁競爭，與來自中東各地的鋁競爭。因此，我們需要確保它具有競爭力。但它也可能是澳洲剩餘的最大的製造業資產。因此，我認為我們處於同一條船上，我們應該有興趣為這些資產找到可行的前進道路。

Perfect. Let's go back in the room. Alain first, then Chris, behind you...

完美的。我們回房間吧。首先是阿蘭，然後是克里斯，在你後面......

This is Alain Gabriel at Morgan Stanley. So the first question is on Simandou. There was a timing disparity between when you pay for Simandou CapEx and when you get reimbursed by your partners, should we expect this disparity to continue going forward? Or will that close? That's the first question.

我是摩根士丹利的阿蘭·加布里埃爾。第一個問題是關於西芒杜的。您支付 Simandou 資本支出的時間與您獲得合作夥伴報銷的時間之間存在時間差異，我們是否應該期望這種差異繼續下去？或者說會關閉嗎？這是第一個問題。

So allowed at closure, the finance closure when all those approvals are in place, we will get repaid.

因此，在關閉時允許，當所有這些批准都到位時，財務關閉，我們將得到償還。

And the second question is probably for Jakob. The spread between your Limited and the PLC lines is back into focus given how elevated it is at the moment, should we see this as a catalyst to revisit the whole DLC debate?

第二個問題可能是問雅各的。考慮到目前有限線和 PLC 線之間的價差已經很高，我們是否應該將其視為重新審視整個 DLC 論點的催化劑？

The whole, which?

整個，哪個？

Collapse of the DLC basically.

DLC基本上崩潰了。

Oh, DLC. That question is for you. But look, it's terrible because I'm going to answer the same question I said before, on my list of CEO agenda items, there's always a number of things I can't hit. And the DLC is the smallest issue to my mind. It serves us well to be a global business. It's not bad to have a headquarter here in London. The DLC works very well. Yes, we have 2 company secretaries, and we could probably save 1 company secretary. But it makes no sense. So for us to focus on -- the DLC works very well for Rio Tinto.

哦，DLC。這個問題是問你的。但是你看，這很糟糕，因為我要回答我之前說過的同樣的問題，在我的執行長議程項目清單上，總是有很多事情我無法解決。在我看來，DLC 是最小的問題。成為全球性企業對我們很有幫助。在倫敦設立總部也不錯。 DLC 效果非常好。是的，我們有 2 位公司秘書，我們可能可以省下 1 位公司秘書。但這沒有意義。因此，我們要關注的是—DLC 對力拓來說非常有效。

It's Chris LaFemina from Jefferies. So you mentioned First Quantum earlier. They announced last night a long list of measures to kind of aggressively repair their balance sheet. And one of them was bringing in a strategic partner for the Zambian copper assets as a possibility. My first question is, is that something that you could potentially do something with? Would you be interested in being a minority nonoperating owner of a relatively high-quality asset base in copper? That's first.

我是 Jefferies 的 Chris LaFemina。所以你之前提到了第一量子。他們昨晚宣布了一長串措施，以積極修復資產負債表。其中之一是為贊比亞銅資產引入戰略合作夥伴。我的第一個問題是，你可以用它做些什麼嗎？您是否有興趣成為相對優質的銅資產基礎的少數非經營所有者？這是第一名。

Yes. So thank you. We do a lot in Africa, not just in Guinea and in South Africa and Madagascar, where we're operating, but we do a lot of exploration. So we are very close to the governments in the mineral-rich countries in Africa. And we are open to look into business in those places. But I always ask myself, what are we bringing to the table? And just a non-operated minority share, what are we really bringing to the table? I don't want to rule it out, but it's just -- my question is, if I can -- when my -- a lot of people, particularly bold, comes to me and says, we should do this, we should do that, et cetera. So the first question I ask is just, what are we bringing to the table here. And if I can't get an answer to that, you will probably not see us investing in that. But yes, we would love to go deeper into a couple of African countries.

是的。所以謝謝。我們在非洲做了很多工作，不僅僅是在幾內亞、南非和馬達加斯加，我們在那裡開展業務，但我們做了很多探索。因此，我們與非洲礦產豐富國家的政府關係非常密切。我們願意在這些地方開展業務。但我總是問自己，我們要帶什麼？只是非經營性少數股權，我們真正能帶來什麼？我不想排除這種可能性，但這只是——我的問題是，如果我可以的話——當我的——很多人，特別是大膽的人來找我說，我們應該這樣做，我們應該這樣做那個，等等。所以我問的第一個問題就是，我們要帶來什麼。如果我不能得到這個問題的答案，你可能不會看到我們對此進行投資。但是，是的，我們很想更深入地了解幾個非洲國家。

And secondly, just on SP10. You had a -- I mean the portion of iron ore production that has been SP10 has been rising over the last 4 or 5 years. I think last year it was quite a bit higher than initially expected. I think when we were in the Pilbara back in the fall, you explained why that was the case. But just wondering how that production mix will shift over the next couple of years? I mean, obviously, by the end of the decade, with Rhodes Ridge, the problem kind of goes away. But first question is how that production mix shifts? And then secondly, maybe more importantly, how do you expect those price discounts to trend over the next 2, 3 years?

其次，僅在 SP10 上。我的意思是，SP10 鐵礦石產量的比例在過去 4 到 5 年裡一直在上升。我認為去年的數字比最初預期的要高很多。我想當我們秋天在皮爾巴拉時，你解釋了為什麼會發生這種情況。但只是想知道未來幾年生產結構將如何變化？我的意思是，顯然，到本世紀末，有了羅德嶺，這個問題就消失了。但第一個問題是生產結構如何改變？其次，也許更重要的是，您預期未來 2、3 年這些價格折扣的趨勢如何？

Well, look, this is the $100 question that we are also working in our strategy. And I don't have a full answer to you. One of the things that we have done, in my view, very well over the last couple of years is we have really reinstated a good understanding of our ore bodies. And on top of that, the way we are working with Traditional Owners of the land is just at a different scale than it was in the past, post Juukan. And those 2 things have, unfortunately, you can't fool the rocks, it's a given thing. And on top of that, you cannot freely access land, you need to -- it's a partnership. So those 2 things have led to elevated levels of SP10. And then you have a bit of a choice of how much absolute volume are you producing versus the share of SP10. And that's what we -- that best served to the market more volume and with elevated level of SP10 or other products, et cetera. So it's an open question.

好吧，看，這就是我們策略中也在研究的 100 美元問題。我沒有給你完整的答案。在我看來，過去幾年我們做得很好的一件事是我們真正恢復了對礦體的良好了解。最重要的是，我們與土地的傳統所有者合作的方式與過去（後 Juukan）的規模有所不同。不幸的是，這兩件事你無法欺騙岩石，這是既定的事。最重要的是，你不能自由地獲得土地，你需要──這是一種夥伴關係。所以這兩件事導致 SP10 水準升高。然後您可以選擇生產多少絕對量與 SP10 的份額。這就是我們的目標——以更高的 SP10 或其他產品等水平為市場提供最好的服務。所以這是一個懸而未決的問題。

But what I will say to you is we have more information now, we work in harmony with the Traditional Owners of the land, and we know what we can producing. But you're right, we have learned lessons that it was difficult to just meet the Pilbara Blend grade at that scale that we had hoped so. So I'll say we will keep on informing you more about that level. You should expect the next few years elevated levels of SP10.

但我要對你們說的是，我們現在擁有更多訊息，我們與土地的傳統所有者和諧合作，我們知道我們可以生產什麼。但你是對的，我們已經吸取了教訓，即很難達到我們希望的那樣規模的皮爾巴拉混合等級。所以我想說，我們將繼續向您提供有關該級別的更多資訊。您應該預計未來幾年 SP10 的水平會升高。

And price discounts?

還有價格折扣？

Well, Chris, what's the steel market going to be like? I mean it's -- all I can say is last year, it was very good. We were getting relative, it is about 90%.

那麼，克里斯，鋼鐵市場會是什麼樣子呢？我的意思是——我只能說去年，非常好。我們得到相對的，大約是90%。

Let's go back to the line. Nadia, can we have 2 more questions from the line, please?

讓我們回到線路上來。納迪亞，我們還能再問兩個問題嗎？

Yes, of course. The next question comes from the line of Lachlan Shaw from UBS.

是的當然。下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的拉克蘭·肖 (Lachlan Shaw)。

Two questions for me. So just on Pacific aluminum, the carbon firming. Just interested what technologies are shaping up there? And then in the way that you're thinking about that commercial negotiation, do you see yourself coming to impute a carbon price to get the economics to fly in terms of that decarbonization process? I'll come back with my second question.

有兩個問題問我。因此，就太平洋鋁業而言，碳纖維堅挺。只是對正在發展的技術感興趣嗎？然後，在您考慮商業談判的方式中，您是否認為自己會估算碳價格，以使脫碳過程中的經濟效益快速發展？我會帶著我的第二個問題回來。

It's a super good question. You should probably ask it to the Australian government because the way I look at it is -- and I would say, I learn a lot, and I think we, as an organization, learn a lot. We need to be to learn much more about new energy systems because renewable energy systems are inherently less stable and therefore, more complex to firm up. But it is probably a combination of batteries gas peakers and maybe some existing infrastructure. Ultimately, the firming as anticipated, is how is access the grid. So it's not our firming, but it is the Queensland government's firming. So I can't -- I mean, from my perspective, it doesn't matter. What I'm focusing at is how can I get competitively priced firm power with the lowest possible carbon footprint.

這是一個超級好的問題。你或許應該向澳洲政府詢問，因為我的看法是──我會說，我學到了很多東西，我認為我們作為一個組織也學到了很多。我們需要更多地了解新能源系統，因為再生能源系統本質上不太穩定，因此固定起來更加複雜。但它可能是電池氣體峰值器和一些現有基礎設施的組合。最終，正如預期的那樣，確定的是如何存取電網。所以這不是我們的強硬，而是昆士蘭州政府的強硬。所以我不能——我的意思是，從我的角度來看，這並不重要。我關注的是如何以盡可能低的碳足跡獲得價格有競爭力的固定電力。

Got it. And the second question is just on iron ore and just around the China Mineral Resource Group. I'm just wondering, are you seeing or experiencing any sort of differentiated pricing terms with CMRG yet? Is there any sort of difference in the terms that you're realizing between CMRG and your existing portfolio of CMR customers?

知道了。第二個問題是關於鐵礦石和中礦資源集團的。我只是想知道，您是否看到或經歷過 CMRG 的任何差異化定價條款？您所意識到的 CMRG 與您現有的 CMR 客戶組合之間的術語是否有任何差異？

Well, it's 2 sides of the same coin. Isn't it? Because our major customers are in China, and we work through CMR. We have had entirely constructive engagements. We are trying to find things that can work for both parties. And we're focused on many things. We made an agreement last year, and we are progressing on another agreement, et cetera. And they are, by any standard, the biggest buyer of iron ore. So obviously, we have to listen very carefully to them and find mutually acceptable solutions. But I can't really comment on ongoing negotiations.

嗯，這是同一枚硬幣的兩面。不是嗎？因為我們的主要客戶在中國，而且我們透過CMR開展工作。我們進行了完全建設性的接觸。我們正在努力尋找對雙方都有好處的事情。我們專注於很多事情。我們去年達成了一項協議，目前正在就另一項協議取得進展，等等。無論以何種標準衡量，他們都是鐵礦石的最大買家。顯然，我們必須非常仔細地傾聽他們的意見，找到雙方都能接受的解決方案。但我無法對正在進行的談判發表評論。

And now we're going to take our next question and it comes to an of Robert Stein from Macquarie.

現在我們要回答下一個問題，它涉及麥格理的羅伯特·斯坦因。

So just a quick question on Guinea. So the obvious dissolution of the government there. The other day, the project is still awaiting some approvals, but as (inaudible) accounts progressing well. What do you think the major risk is to Simandou off the back of that dissolution of government? Is it that the approvals get delayed? The project gets delayed? Is it that the project continues on, but there is a renegotiation as the financial terms with the government? What are the major risks that you see there?

我想問一個關於幾內亞的簡單問題。所以那裡的政府明顯解散了。前幾天，專案仍在等待一些批准，但（聽不清楚）帳目進展順利。您認為政府解散後西芒杜面臨的主要風險是什麼？是不是審核有延遲？項目延期？是否該項目仍在繼續，但與政府重新談判了財務條款？您認為那裡有哪些主要風險？

I don't think so. The President is the President and he wants and the government wants now the government is dissolved. They all want to focus Simandou. What we have been awaiting has been some approvals in China, and that is progressing according to schedule. So I don't think that it should lead to delay. I cannot give you 100% guarantee, but that was what I was saying in my presentation, we have actually operated 50 years in Guinea with continuous production despite many changes in government.

我不這麼認為。總統就是總統，他想要，政府也想要，現在政府就解散了。他們都想集中西芒杜。我們一直在等待中國的一些批准，並且正在按計劃進行。所以我認為這不應該導致延誤。我不能給你 100% 的保證，但這就是我在演講中所說的，儘管政府發生了許多變化，我們實際上已經在幾內亞運營了 50 年，並且持續生產。

And just a follow-up, the closed border. Will that change how technical staff can come to the project and work on the project? Or is that largely absent, say, your workforce there?

後續行動是關閉邊境。這會改變技術人員參與專案並從事專案工作的方式嗎？或者說，你們那裡的勞動力基本上不存在嗎？

Border restrictions, et cetera. Is there any impact on our operations? That's question.

邊境限制等等。對我們的營運有影響嗎？這就是問題。

You might know more than I do, but I'm not aware of that. No.

你可能知道的比我多，但我不知道。不。

Right. Let's go back in the room, Grant and Liam, and then we'll come back that way.

正確的。格蘭特和利亞姆，我們回到房間吧，然後從那個方向回來。

It's Grant Sporre from Bloomberg Intelligence. It's just a follow-up really on a question that's been asked. In terms of your sort of closure costs going forward, are you planning to exclude them from underlying earnings going forward? And the reason I'm asking is, it just strikes me as it's now become sort of business as usual for at least for the next few years. So should it actually be excluded?

我是彭博資訊 (Bloomberg Intelligence) 的格蘭特‧斯波爾 (Grant Sporre)。這只是對所提出問題的後續行動。就您未來的關閉成本而言，您是否計劃將其排除在未來的基本收益之外？我問這個問題的原因是，這讓我震驚，因為至少在接下來的幾年裡，它現在已經成為一種常態。那麼它實際上應該被排除嗎？

So the answer is we don't. For ongoing -- for our ongoing assets, we do exclude them. For closed assets that have been closed and most of them are legacy assets, we exclude them if they're material. So we -- for most of our assets, the closure cost in the year, the accumulation of the provision goes through the income statement.

所以答案是我們不這樣做。對於持續資產——對於我們的持續資產，我們確實將其排除在外。對於已經關閉的資產，其中大部分是遺留資產，如果它們是重要的，我們將其排除在外。因此，對於我們的大部分資產，當年的關閉成本、準備金的累積都會通過損益表。

Okay. So just so I understand, I know it's a technical point. You basically provisioned for it, and that's why you can exclude. Okay, got it.

好的。所以我明白，我知道這是一個技術點。您基本上已對其進行了配置，這就是您可以排除的原因。好，知道了。

So when you think about the $1 billion of cash flow, there's 2 components, these projects we're working on now, but there is also continuous rehabilitation work we're doing around all our assets that is part of that $1 billion. So all of that cash flow is part of our operating cash flow. So the $15.2 billion of operating cash flows after that cash flow that we spend.

因此，當你考慮 10 億美元的現金流時，有兩個組成部分，即我們現在正在進行的這些項目，但我們也正在圍繞這 10 億美元的所有資產進行持續的修復工作。因此，所有這些現金流都是我們經營現金流的一部分。因此，在扣除我們支出的現金流之後，還有 152 億美元的營運現金流。

So every time we sell a tonne of iron ore, we take a few cents and provide it for a rainy day when we have, so we rehabilitate.

所以我們每賣一噸鐵礦石，就拿幾分錢，有的時候就提供以備不時之需，這樣我們就可以平復了。

Liam Fitzpatrick, Deutsche Bank. First question, just on the downstream aluminum strategy. Is this Matalco deal? Is this like a won and done? Or could we see more on that front? Because particularly on the green premiums theme. It seems like you probably have to go further downstream or back downstream. So would that be something that you'd look at?

利亞姆·菲茨帕特里克，德意志銀行。第一個問題，關於鋁的下游策略。這是Matalco 的交易嗎？這就像勝利了一樣嗎？或者我們可以在這方面看到更多嗎？因為特別是在綠色溢價主題上。看來您可能必須進一步下游或返回下游。那麼這會是你會看的東西嗎？

Well, first of all, I may say that Matalco is not a standstill. I expect Matalco to grow a lot. It is already North America's biggest. I do think that it's not that we could, of course, go in and do recyclable in Australia, but it's just a tiny market compared to North America. So we need to be in markets where we have primary aluminum and where they scale. So it's not that there's a lot of other options. But I do think that we have really good growth opportunities, Matalco. I'm going there in 10 days' time, and I can't wait to see how we want to grow the market. I like us to deepen that because it's a given that there will be more growth in secondary than in primary in the future.

好吧，首先，我可以說Matalco 並不是停滯不前的。我預計 Matalco 會成長很多。它已經是北美最大的了。我確實認為，當然，我們不能進入澳洲進行可回收利用，但與北美相比，這只是一個很小的市場。因此，我們需要進入擁有原鋁並規模化的市場。所以並不是說有很多其他選擇。但我確實認為我們有很好的成長機會，Matalco。十天後我要去那裡，我迫不及待想看看我們想如何發展市場。我希望我們加深這一點，因為未來中學的成長將比小學的成長更多，這是理所當然的。

I know there's the history with the Alcan acquisition and the disposals, but would you consider moving back downstream into extrusions and areas like that?

我知道加鋁公司收購和處置的歷史，但您會考慮回到下游進入擠壓和類似領域嗎？

Look, let us digest the Matalco first.

聽著，讓我們先消化一下Matalco。

And the quick follow-up is on Jadar. There seem to be some positive moments recently. What's the state of play there?

Jadar 是快速跟進的對象。最近似乎有一些積極的時刻。那裡的比賽狀況如何？

Yes. So in Davos, I met with President Vucic, and we had a very constructive meeting. And he went out to the press afterwards and said that he wants to see the project progress. So I'm very happy with that. I need to work with the government of Serbia, but he's still to appoint the government because there was an election in December. So as soon as a new government is being appointed, we expect to engage with them on seeing how we can progress the project.

是的。因此，在達沃斯，我會見了武契奇總統，我們進行了一次非常有建設性的會議。隨後他向媒體表示，他希望看到該項目的進展。所以我對此感到非常高興。我需要與塞爾維亞政府合作，但他仍然要任命政府，因為 12 月有選舉。因此，一旦任命新政府，我們希望與他們接觸，看看如何推進該計畫。

Let's go back to the line for 2 more questions. So we've got about 10 minutes. So let's speed it up a little bit so we can get through everybody please.

讓我們回到前面回答兩個問題。所以我們還有大約 10 分鐘的時間。所以讓我們加快一點速度，這樣我們就可以通過每個人了。

The next question comes from the line of Glyn Lawcock from Barrenjoey.

下一個問題來自 Barrenjoey 的 Glyn Lawcock。

Maybe just drill down a little bit more into lithium, if I could. You said earlier, you want to be -- you want strong ore bodies where Rio can use its technology. I mean, when you say we've been through a bubble, which I guess we all agree with. But just when you look at the lithium industry, like you've got upstream, you've got downstream. Where do you think the value lies in the industry now? Just your thoughts on how the industry is evolving and where you see the best value.

如果可以的話，也許可以更深入地研究鋰。你之前說過，你想要──你想要堅固的礦體，力拓可以在其中使用其技術。我的意思是，當你說我們經歷了泡沫時，我想我們都同意這一點。但當你觀察鋰產業時，就像你有上游一樣，你也有下游。您認為現在這個產業的價值在哪裡？只是您對行業如何發展以及您在哪裡看到最大價值的想法。

It's a very good question, Glyn. Thank you. I think it's fair to say that the Western world hasn't yet entirely solved its supply chain, which is not lithium, it's batteries. And how are you going to build the future supply chains. And we can see that we kind of could be part of that puzzle, and it is emerging. But I think it's also pretty clear that most countries that has lithium in the ground would like to have or will only accept that to be extracted if there's also the processing happening there. And therefore, our presence in lithium is likely to be both mining and processing. But I have to say, after you have produced battery-grade lithium, whether it's -- what is called carbonate or hydroxide, it doesn't matter, but then it stops for us. We're not going to go into cathode and anode production, et cetera. So we're quite clear about what our role can play. But I think the supply chains are still to be defined. And we are just slowly but surely progressing. Well, I have already answered that question.

這是一個非常好的問題，格林。謝謝。我認為可以公平地說，西方世界尚未完全解決其供應鏈問題，這不是鋰，而是電池。以及您將如何建立未來的供應鏈。我們可以看到，我們可能是這個難題的一部分，而且它正在出現。但我認為，很明顯，大多數地下有鋰的國家都希望或只會接受在當地也進行加工的情況下提取鋰。因此，我們在鋰領域的業務很可能是採礦和加工。但我必須說，在生產出電池級鋰之後，無論是所謂的碳酸鹽還是氫氧化物，都沒關係，但對我們來說就停止了。我們不會進入陰極和陽極生產等領域。所以我們非常清楚我們能扮演什麼角色。但我認為供應鏈仍有待定義。我們正在緩慢但堅定地進步。嗯，我已經回答過這個問題了。

Yes. And Jakob, just maybe a follow-up to that. Price formation is obviously key when trying to work out what the value is of a lithium asset. The 2 -- or the recent bubble how do you make you think about the price formation now? Are you reconsidering what you think prices should be?

是的。雅各布，也許只是這件事的後續。在試圖計算鋰資產的價值時，價格形成顯然是關鍵。 2——或者最近的泡沫，你如何看待現在的價格形成？您是否正在重新考慮您認為的價格應該是多少？

Not really because when we took the investment decisions on, for example, Rincon, that was before the big bubble. That was probably the same price as you have today. And in any case, we work with some long-term prices. In a way, the way I would think about it is we are a big company compared to many of the other lithium players and we can probably better take the volatility. And I think lithium prices are bound to be volatile in the future. What really matters to us is what's going to be the average price over the next decade. If you know that, I'd like to know it, but we feel that there could be a decent business case here.

並非如此，因為當我們做出投資決定時，例如，Rincon，那是在大泡沫之前。那可能跟你今天的價格一樣。無論如何，我們都會採用一些長期價格。在某種程度上，我的想法是，與許多其他鋰廠商相比，我們是一家大公司，我們可能可以更好地承受波動。而且我認為未來鋰價一定會波動。對我們來說真正重要的是未來十年的平均價格是多少。如果您知道這一點，我很想知道，但我們認為這裡可能有一個不錯的商業案例。

Okay. And then if I could, just with my second question, asked about just China. There seems to be some concerns on growth on the ground. I mean I realize we just come out of Chinese New Year. But is there anything you're hearing any observations from your large team on the ground on the state of the Chinese economy that gives you concern for this year?

好的。然後如果可以的話，我的第二個問題只問了中國。人們似乎對實際成長存在一些擔憂。我的意思是我意識到我們剛剛度過農曆新年。但是，您從您的大型團隊那裡聽到的有關中國經濟狀況的觀察結果是否讓您對今年感到擔憂？

Yes, Glyn, it's really sad you can't see me wearing a very red tie today. Happy New Year. It's a year of the dragon. That should be a good indicator for the year to come. Look -- I am not an expert in everything in Chinese economy. But the Chinese economy that we are seeing, and that's obviously the very physical part of the Chinese economy is growing. And we feel quite comfortable about that. I thought the slide that Peter is showing is super good. I was actually trying to nick that slide because I think it just shows that, yes, there are issues in property, but the infrastructure and some of the industries like automotive is outpacing that. And net-net, the Chinese economy is growing.

是的，格林，你今天看不到我繫紅色領帶真是太遺憾了。新年快樂。今年是龍年。這應該是來年的一個很好的指標。聽著—我並不是中國經濟所有方面的專家。但我們看到的中國經濟，顯然是中國經濟的實體部分正在成長。我們對此感到很舒服。我認為彼得展示的幻燈片非常好。我實際上是想刪除這張投影片，因為我認為它只是表明，是的，房地產存在問題，但基礎設施和汽車等一些行業的發展速度超過了這個問題。而且，中國經濟正在不斷成長。

Nadia, one more question from the line, and then we'll take another 2 here.

納迪亞，還有一個問題，然後我們將在這裡再回答兩個問題。

Yes, of course. And now we're going to take our next question, and it comes from line of Myles Allsop from UBS.

是的當然。現在我們要回答下一個問題，它來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的 Myles Allsop。

So it's Myles. So just on lithium, could you give us a bit of an update on Rincon, how much you spend? When you're hoping to get to FID? What is needed to get to FID? How credible is that as a project in the pipeline? It's the first question.

所以是邁爾斯。那麼就鋰而言，您能為我們介紹一下 Rincon 的最新情況嗎？您花了多少錢？您希望什麼時候進行 FID？獲得 FID 需要什麼？作為一個正在醞釀中的項目，其可信度如何？這是第一個問題。

I'm leaving that question to Peter because I'm going to Rincon in 10 days' time, so I reserve my judgment.

我把這個問題留給 Peter，因為 10 天後我要去 Rincon，所以我保留我的判斷。

And I I've been there. So Myles, I think we're spending on the lithium, the 3,000 project and the capital costs are as disclosed first production at the end of this year. So that's all on track. Otherwise, it studies for the bigger, more expanded case, which we're working through in parallel with that development of the 3,000. So still to be determined exactly scale and capital costs of what that looks like. But we have said, we think this is competitive industry benchmarks.

我也去過那裡。邁爾斯，我認為我們正在鋰、3,000 項目上投入資金，資本成本與今年年底首次生產時披露的一樣。所以一切都步入正軌了。除此之外，它還會研究更大、更擴展的案例，我們正在與 3,000 的開發同時進行。因此，其具體規模和資本成本仍有待確定。但我們說過，我們認為這是有競爭力的產業基準。

And Page 15, Myles, of the project table for the Rincon 3,000 numbers.

還有第 15 頁，Myles，Rincon 3,000 號碼的項目表。

Okay. Maybe as a kind of a follow-up just on kind of iron ore and medium term. So production, you're still talking about capacity [345 to 360]. I mean we haven't talked about value over volume in iron ore. I mean obviously, there is a concern out there that the market will be surplus. I mean how are you thinking today around sort of managing the Pilbara production, medium-, long-term in a potentially softer (inaudible) price environment with your kind of more marginal SP10 volumes and so on. And should we kind of plan for Rio to be more disciplined in the future or to just push out as Simandou ramps up?

好的。也許是對鐵礦石和中期的一種後續行動。所以生產，你還是在談論容量[345到360]。我的意思是我們還沒有討論鐵礦石的價值與數量。我的意思是，顯然，人們擔心市場會過剩。我的意思是，您今天如何考慮在可能較軟（聽不清楚）的價格環境中以更邊際的 SP10 產量等方式管理皮爾巴拉生產，中長期。我們是否應該計劃讓裡約熱內盧在未來更加自律，還是隨著西芒杜的崛起而退出？

Yes. So look, you never hear me talking about value over volumes. We are here to serve customers but we should be disciplined and we should be very disciplined. And everything we develop is at the very low end of the cost curve. And we have now had a number of years with high iron ore prices. And the beauty of that is that there's actually quite a lot of production that has come in at a very high cost. And that means that there is much more support from the cost curve at higher prices than there were some years back. So I actually feel we are in a very good position with the iron ore market.

是的。所以聽著，你從來沒有聽到我談論價值而不是數量。我們來這裡是為了服務客戶，但我們應該遵守紀律，我們應該非常遵守紀律。我們開發的所有產品都處於成本曲線的最低端。鐵礦石價格已經連續多年處於高位。這樣做的美妙之處在於，實際上有相當多的生產成本非常高。這意味著，與幾年前相比，更高價格下的成本曲線提供了更多的支援。所以我實際上覺得我們在鐵礦石市場處於非常有利的位置。

Matt, please, and then Alex and then we'll wrap it up.

請馬特，然後是亞歷克斯，然後我們就結束了。

Matt Greene from Goldman Sachs. Jakob, on resolution, you mentioned you were in the White House recently. Given we're in an election year, do you believe that if we see a change in government, you can see an acceleration of the porting and development time line? And if I could just follow up, Peter, just on 2026 CapEx guidance on the yet-to-be sanctioned copper, have you budgeted for Escondida at all? And with that deferral, does that free up some of the budget to perhaps accelerate other copper options with the new portfolio?

高盛的馬特·格林。雅各布，關於決議，你提到你最近在白宮。鑑於我們正處於選舉年，您是否相信如果我們看到政府更迭，您會看到移植和開發時間線的加速？ Peter，如果我能跟進有關尚未批准的銅的 2026 年資本支出指南，您是否為 Escondida 制定了預算？透過推遲，是否可以釋放一些預算，以加速新投資組合的其他銅選擇？

Yes. So let me start. I just think that resolution will happen. We are making progress, good progress with the First Nation's people. There are 11 tribes that claims connection to the land. We're making really, really good progress there, including with the San Carlos tribe. So that's kind of a first thing because even if you get approval from the government, we also need to have FPIC with the First Nation people. Then there is an approval process, which in the U.S. also goes through the courts and it's in the Ninth Circuits right now, and we'll just have to respect that process. But leave no doubt that we are arguing our case. But I think we are arguing to an open door because it's so much in the U.S. interest, critical minerals have never been more important. The U.S. right now is consuming 2 million tonnes of copper. It only produces 1 million. It has only got 2 smelters left. One of them is ours and Kennecott, and we can load that up copper in resolution. And the U.S. demand of copper because of the energy transition is likely to go from 2 million to 4 million, and there's not a lot of copper production growing in the U.S. So I do think that it's actually have national importance to develop it. So I'm very optimistic. The only thing I can't give you is a time line around it.

是的。那麼就讓我開始吧。我只是認為解決方案將會發生。我們正在與原住民一起取得進步，取得良好進展。有 11 個部落聲稱與這片土地有聯繫。我們在那裡取得了非常非常好的進展，包括與聖卡洛斯部落的合作。所以這是第一件事，因為即使你得到了政府的批准，我們也需要與原住民建立 FPIC。然後是一個批准程序，在美國，該程序也經過法院，目前正在第九巡迴法院審理，我們只需要尊重該程序。但毫無疑問，我們正在爭論我們的案子。但我認為我們主張敞開大門，因為這非常符合美國的利益，關鍵礦產從未如此重要。美國目前消耗200萬噸銅。它只生產100萬個。只剩下2座冶煉廠了。其中之一是我們和肯尼科特的，我們可以在分辨率中加載銅。由於能源轉型，美國對銅的需求可能會從 200 萬增加到 400 萬，而美國的銅產量成長並不多，所以我確實認為開發銅實際上具有國家重要性。所以我非常樂觀。我唯一不能給你的就是它的時間表。

And on Escondida. I mean, remembering the $3 billion when we talk about it is for incremental copper equivalent units, so right across the portfolio. And so the Escondida numbers are embedded in our forward numbers, but not part of that $3 billion.

還有埃斯孔迪達。我的意思是，請記住，當我們談論 30 億美元時，它是增量銅當量單位，因此就在整個投資組合中。因此，Escondida 的數據已包含在我們的遠期數據中，但不屬於 30 億美元的一部分。

And finally, Alex, ahead of your big conference on Monday. So be kind.

最後，亞歷克斯，在周一的大型會議之前。所以要友善。

So Alex Pearce, BMO Capital Markets.

BMO 資本市場部的 Alex Pearce 就是這樣。

But in fact, let me just have the tough questions now, so it's -- easy one on Monday.

但事實上，現在讓我提出一些棘手的問題，所以週一的問題就很簡單了。

This is an easy one. So on IOC, you mentioned actually, you've got better volumes at the end of the year after a pretty challenging Q2, but it still seems to be running at least from a guidance perspective, below the long-term target there. And it does seem like it's infrastructure constrained. I just wonder, maybe you can comment on some of the initiatives you've got in place to try and meet that guidance that you've got this year? And also, can you just provide an update on some of the projects in terms of value add, I think HBI is being looked at, et cetera?

這是個簡單的。因此，在國際奧委會上，您實際上提到，在經歷了相當具有挑戰性的第二季度之後，您在今年年底的銷量有所增加，但至少從指導角度來看，它似乎仍在運行，低於那裡的長期目標。而且基礎設施似乎確實受到限制。我只是想知道，也許您可以評論一下您為嘗試實現今年的指導而採取的一些舉措？另外，您能否提供一些項目在增值方面的最新情況，我認為 HBI 正在被考慮，等等？

So Alex, I mean it was a tough year for IOC, but I mean they did lose almost a month's full production due to those wildfires. And that when you sort of take that into account, you can see that gives us more of a platform going into 2024 on production terms. So that's the big piece. I mean, haulage, we had some constraints. So we had a bit of extra inventory in IOC as well just on the haulage because we had production actually very good or suddenly going right down. And so that made that whole system a bit unbalanced and we're working through that. I mean I think they are really sort of focused on the Safe Production System and working this through. I mean there's a big piece around asset integrity at IOC and a big piece around driving productivity through the integrated system to really get the most out of that. I mean I think on product, I mean, it's just the product -- the IOC product is [lone] purity pellets, high-grade pellets. I mean it will be and that world of sort of steel -- green steel production that Jakob talked to. I mean it's right in the sort of middle section there of HBI production. I mean it's going to be a product in demand, and that's where we want to position it.

亞歷克斯，我的意思是，對於國際奧委會來說，這是艱難的一年，但我的意思是，由於這些野火，他們確實損失了近一個月的全部產量。當你考慮到這一點時，你會發現這為我們在 2024 年的生產方面提供了更多的平台。這就是最大的部分。我的意思是，運輸方面，我們有一些限制。因此，我們在國際石油公司（IOC）以及運輸方面都有一些額外的庫存，因為我們的產量實際上非常好，或者突然下降。這使得整個系統有點不平衡，我們正在解決這個問題。我的意思是，我認為他們確實專注於安全生產系統並解決這個問題。我的意思是，IOC 的一個重要部分是圍繞資產完整性，還有一個重要部分是透過整合系統來提高生產力，以真正充分利用這一點。我的意思是，我認為在產品方面，我的意思是，這只是產品——IOC 產品是[單獨的]純度顆粒、高級顆粒。我的意思是，這將是雅各談到的鋼鐵世界——綠色鋼鐵生產。我的意思是它就在 HBI 生產的中間部分。我的意思是，它將成為一種需求旺盛的產品，這就是我們想要定位它的地方。

Look, it is, by any standard, a disappointing production year last year from IOC. Maybe I'm too patient, but I am very patient because we are learning from these things. We have -- you know that the asset have been on the block. We have not maintained it well for a long period of time. That takes time. And the team is getting on. They're getting more competencies, and we just need to get better maintenance in place to make this stable. I would have loved to have seen it happening faster. But in a way, every time you have a setback with an issue, it has a negative short-term impact, but it also has the opportunity for real learning and saying, how can we avoid that this ever happens again.

看，無論以任何標準衡量，去年國際奧委會的表現都是令人失望的。也許我太有耐心了，但我很有耐心，因為我們正在從這些事情中學習。我們——你知道，該資產已經被出售。我們很長一段時間沒有維護好它。這需要時間。團隊正在進步。他們的能力越來越強，我們只需要更好的維護就可以保持穩定。我希望看到它發生得更快。但在某種程度上，每次你在某個問題上遇到挫折時，都會產生負面的短期影響，但它也有機會真正學習並思考，我們如何避免這種情況再次發生。

Great. Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody, for coming very early this morning. Thank you for staying up late in Sydney and Melbourne. Jakob and Peter are looking forward to seeing many of you face-to-face in the next 2 weeks. For those we don't see, see you in 5 months here again. Thank you.

偉大的。非常感謝。謝謝大家今天一大早來。感謝您在雪梨和墨爾本熬夜。雅各和彼得期待在接下來的兩週內與你們中的許多人面對面交流。對於那些我們沒有見到的人，請在 5 個月後再次在這裡見到你。謝謝。