Power Integrations Inc (POWI) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Power Integrations' Q2 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，午安。歡迎參加 Power Integrations 的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）

Also, today's call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

此外，今天的通話正在錄音。（操作員說明）

And now, at this time, I would like to turn things over to Mr. Joe Shiffler, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

現在，我想把事情交給投資者關係總監 Joe Shiffler 先生。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, Bo. Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining us. With me on the call today are Balu Balakrishnan, Chairman and CEO of Power Integrations; and Sandeep Nayyar, our Chief Financial Officer. During this call, we will refer to financial measures not calculated according to GAAP.

謝謝你，博。大家下午好。感謝您加入我們。今天與我一起參加電話會議的是 Power Integrations 董事長兼執行長 Balu Balakrishnan；以及我們的財務長桑迪普‧內亞爾 (Sandeep Nayyar)。在本次電話會議中，我們將參考未根據 GAAP 計算的財務指標。

Non-GAAP measures exclude stock-based compensation expenses, amortization of acquisition-related intangible assets, and the tax effects of these items. A reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to our GAAP results is included in today's press release. Our discussion today, including the Q&A session, will include forward-looking statements denoted by words like will, would, believe, should, expect, outlook, forecast, estimate, anticipate and similar expressions that look toward future events or performance. Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those projected or implied. Such risks are discussed in today's press release and in our most recent Form 10-K filed with the SEC on February 12, 2024.

非公認會計準則指標不包括股票補償費用、收購相關無形資產攤銷、這些項目的稅務影響。今天的新聞稿中包含了非公認會計原則措施與我們的公認會計原則結果的調節。我們今天的討論，包括問答環節，將包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述用諸如意願、將、相信、應該、期望、展望、預測、估計、預計以及展望未來事件或表現的類似表達方式表示。此類陳述存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與預測或暗示的結果有重大差異。今天的新聞稿以及我們於 2024 年 2 月 12 日向 SEC 提交的最新 10-K 表格中討論了此類風險。

This call is the property of Power Integrations, and any recording or rebroadcast is expressly prohibited without the written consent of Power Integrations. Now, I'll turn it over to Balu.

此通話屬於 Power Integrations 的財產，未經 Power Integrations 書面同意，明確禁止任何錄音或轉播。現在，我將把它交給Balu。

Thank you, Joe, and good afternoon. As expected, Q2 marked the beginning of our recovery, with revenues up 16% sequentially and another increase expected in the third quarter. Like many of our peers, our near-term outlook reflects limited visibility and challenging macro conditions. Customers are behaving cautiously and our short lead times enable customers to order products only when needed. All these factors make the slope of recovery highly uncertain.

謝謝你，喬，下午好。正如預期的那樣，第二季標誌著我們復甦的開始，營收季增 16%，預計第三季將再次成長。與我們的許多同行一樣，我們的近期前景反映了有限的可見性和充滿挑戰的宏觀條件。客戶行為謹慎，我們的交貨時間短，使客戶能夠僅在需要時訂購產品。所有這些因素使得復甦的斜率高度不確定。

Nevertheless, inventory-related headwinds have lessened considerably, clearing the way for a rebound off the bottom. We consider seven to eight weeks a desirable range for channel inventory, and while pockets of excess remain at few distributors, we ended June at 7.8 weeks overall. That's down a week from the prior quarter and well below the peak of 13.6 weeks in Q3 of 2022. The recovery is being led by our consumer category, where revenues are up 70% over the past two quarters, after falling all the way back to 2009 levels in Q4 of last year.

儘管如此，與庫存相關的不利因素已大大減輕，為觸底反彈掃清了道路。我們認為 7 到 8 週是通路庫存的理想範圍，雖然少數經銷商仍存在過剩庫存，但 6 月的庫存總量為 7.8 週。這比上一季減少了一周，遠低於 2022 年第三季 13.6 週的高峰。復甦是由我們的消費類別所帶動的，在去年第四季度一路回落至 2009 年水平之後，過去兩個季度該類別的收入增長了 70%。

Just as the supply chain had bulked up on inventory after the shortages of the prior year, demand for appliances fell sharply due to a confluence of factors, including the collapse of China real estate, and more broadly, higher interest rates, slower home sales, and the hangover from the accelerated purchases during the COVID times.

正如供應鏈在去年的短缺之後庫存增加一樣，由於多種因素的綜合作用，包括中國房地產的崩潰，以及更廣泛的利率上升、房屋銷售放緩、以及新冠疫情期間加速購買帶來的後遺症。

The resulting correction had an outsized impact on Power Integrations, with about a third of our revenue coming from the appliance market in 2022. As often happens, the supply chain overcorrected, drawing inventories down to unsustainable levels and then replenishing throughout the first half of the year. Looking ahead, appliance demand remains soft, and we expect seasonally lower air conditioning sales in the September quarter.

由此產生的調整對 Power Integrations 產生了巨大影響，到 2022 年，我們約有三分之一的收入來自家電市場。正如經常發生的那樣，供應鏈過度修正，將庫存降低到不可持續的水平，然後在整個上半年進行補充。展望未來，家電需求依然疲軟，我們預期九月季度空調銷售將出現季節性下降。

However, we have continued to win market share and grow our dollar content in appliances through the downturn, and we look forward to the fundamental strength of our consumer business coming back to the forefront, now that cyclical factors are no longer dominant.

然而，在經濟低迷時期，我們繼續贏得市場份額並增加家電產品的美元含量，鑑於週期性因素不再占主導地位，我們期待消費業務的基本實力重新回到最前沿。

Power Integrations is number one in the world in appliance power supplies, thanks to our reliability and energy efficiency benefits of our products. As the market leader, we have the inside track on incremental content from the additional features such as connectivity, displays and LED lighting, even as designers work to meet tighter efficiency standards, such as new EU limits on standby power supply.

憑藉我們產品的可靠性和能源效率優勢，Power Integrations 在家電電源領域位居世界第一。作為市場領導者，即使設計人員努力滿足更嚴格的效率標準（例如歐盟對備用電源的新限制），我們也能從連接、顯示器和 LED 照明等附加功能中獲得增量內容。

These constricting design challenges are driving greater adoption of higher performance, higher value products, such as our GaN-based InnoSwitch and InnoMux-2 products and our BridgeSwitch motor-driver ICs.

這些嚴峻的設計挑戰正在推動更高性能、更高價值的產品得到更多採用，例如我們基於 GaN 的 InnoSwitch 和 InnoMux-2 產品以及我們的 BridgeSwitch 馬達驅動器 IC。

In June, we introduced BridgeSwitch-2, raising our addressable power range for BLDC motors to 1 horsepower. The expanded power range encompasses applications such as washing machine drums, heat pumps for cloth dryers and kitchen mixers and blenders, and double our addressable market for motor drive to $1 billion. BridgeSwitch-2 is the most efficient BLDC driver solution available with standby consumption of less than 10 milliwatts and inverter efficiency up to 99%, which eliminates the need for heat sinks.

6 月，我們推出了 BridgeSwitch-2，將 BLDC 馬達的可尋址功率範圍提高到 1 匹馬力。擴展的功率範圍涵蓋洗衣機滾筒、乾衣機熱泵以及廚房攪拌機和攪拌機等應用，使我們的馬達驅動潛在市場翻一番，達到 10 億美元。橋接開關-2是目前最高效的 BLDC 驅動器解決方案，待機功耗低於 10 毫瓦，逆變器效率高達 99%，無需散熱器。

We have received our first purchase orders for our BridgeSwitch-2 in recent weeks, including two from air conditioning customers in China and another for a dishwasher pump at a major European appliance OEM. We also continue to win new programs with the first generation BridgeSwitch with the recent wins, including a range hood fan for the India market.

最近幾週，我們收到了第一批 BridgeSwitch-2 採購訂單，其中兩份來自中國空調客戶，另一份來自歐洲主要家電 OEM 的洗碗機幫浦。我們也繼續透過第一代 BridgeSwitch 贏得新項目以及最近的勝利，包括印度市場的抽油煙風扇。

We are equally excited about the market reception for InnoMux-2, which we introduced in March. InnoMux-2 is a new architecture for products with multiple DC outputs, eliminating the need for separate DC-to-DC conversion stages by providing up to three independently-regulated DC outputs. This not only simplifies the designs, but also increases the efficiency by eliminating the compounded losses over multiple conversion stages.

我們對 3 月推出的 InnoMux-2 的市場接受度同樣感到興奮。InnoMux-2 是適用於具有多個直流輸出的產品的新架構，透過提供多達三個獨立調節的直流輸出，無需單獨的直流到直流轉換級。這不僅簡化了設計，而且還透過消除多個轉換級的複合損耗來提高效率。

InnoMux-2 also incorporates our proprietary PowiGaN switches, further boosting efficiency. Our first high-volume design began production earlier this quarter in a 24-inch monitor for a top tier PC OEM. And we have a range of designs in progress across the computing, TV and appliance markets.

InnoMux-2 也採用了我們專有的 PowiGaN 開關，進一步提高了效率。我們的第一個大批量設計於本季早些時候開始為一家頂級 PC OEM 生產 24 吋顯示器。我們在計算、電視和家電市場上正在進行一系列設計。

We also won a wide range of designs in Q2 with our GaN, InnoSwitch and HiperPFS products, including multi-port USB PD chargers ranging from 65 to 140 watts at brands like Anker, UGREEN, and G-Power. OEM notebook design wins and India's 5G fixed wireless rollout should also contribute meaningful revenues next year.

我們也憑藉 GaN、InnoSwitch 和 HiperPFS 產品在第二季度贏得了廣泛的設計，包括 Anker、UGREEN 和 G-Power 等品牌的 65 至 140 瓦多連接埠 USB PD 充電器。OEM 筆記型電腦設計的勝利以及印度 5G 固定無線網路的推出也將在明年帶來可觀的收入。

Overall, we expect 2025 to be an inflection point in the growth of GaN, reflecting the continued migration of our product portfolio from silicon to GaN as well as broader customer awareness and adoption across all end markets. This includes a notable uptick in opportunities for GaN products at industrial customers, reflecting greater awareness of GaN in general and our highly integrated products in particular.

總體而言，我們預計 2025 年將成為 GaN 成長的拐點，反映出我們的產品組合從矽到 GaN 的持續遷移，以及所有終端市場更廣泛的客戶意識和採用。這包括工業客戶對 GaN 產品的機會顯著增加，反映出人們對 GaN、特別是我們的高度整合產品的認識有所提高。

Because of the relatively low volumes over which their engineering costs are spread, industrial customers value ease of design and are less inclined to devote resources to solving the challenges of discrete GaN solutions. We strip away the complexity from the customers' perspective by incorporating PowiGaN switches into our system-level products, so the customer doesn't have to invest the time learning about GaN to take advantage of its superior performance.

由於工程成本分攤的規模相對較小，工業客戶重視設計的簡易性，不太願意投入資源解決分立式 GaN 解決方案的挑戰。透過將 PowiGaN 開關整合到我們的系統級產品中，我們從客戶的角度消除了複雜性，因此客戶無需投入時間了解 GaN 即可利用其卓越的性能。

Our 900 and 1,250 volt GaN InnoSwitch products are especially well-suited for industrial applications such as utility meters, which are directly connected to the grid and highly exposed to surges and spikes, especially in markets like India, where the grid voltages fluctuate widely. We have a leading position in India metering market, and we are encouraged by the level of interest in higher voltage GaN products as India proceeds with its plan to deploy 250 million new meters over the next several years.

我們的 900 伏特和 1,250 伏特 GaN InnoSwitch 產品特別適合工業應用，例如電錶，這些應用直接連接到電網並高度暴露於浪湧和尖峰，特別是在印度等電網電壓波動較大的市場。我們在印度電錶市場處於領先地位，隨著印度計劃在未來幾年部署 2.5 億個新電錶，人們對更高電壓 GaN 產品的興趣讓我們感到鼓舞。

Automotive customers also value the ease of use, reliability, efficiency, and space savings of our products, including our higher voltage GaN ICs. We expect to be in production with about 20 electric vehicle OEMs by the end of this year and at least 10 more slated to begin production next year. We are adding dozens of design opportunities to our funnel every quarter with the range of applications, including emergency power supplies, 12-volt battery replacement, micro DC-to-DC converters and compressors for battery and cabin cooling. We believe automotive will be a $1 billion addressable market in the years ahead, with the potential to go much higher as we develop high current GaN technology to address higher power levels.

汽車客戶也看重我們產品（包括更高電壓的 GaN IC）的易用性、可靠性、效率和空間節省。我們預計到今年年底將有約 20 家電動車原始設備製造商投入生產，並且至少還有 10 家預計明年開始生產。我們每季都會在漏斗中增加數十個設計機會，其應用範圍包括緊急電源、12 伏特電池更換、微型 DC-DC 轉換器以及用於電池和機艙冷卻的壓縮機。我們相信，未來幾年汽車市場將是一個價值 10 億美元的潛在市場，隨著我們開發大電流 GaN 技術來滿足更高功率水平，這個市場的潛力還會更高。

On July 1, we closed our acquisition of the assets of Odyssey Semiconductor, adding expertise in vertical GaN technology, which supports much higher current than today's lateral devices. The acquisition also includes a clean room to enable quick turnaround of wafers and significantly shorten overall development time. While success is not guaranteed, we believe we can achieve the necessary breakthroughs to make high-power GaN a reality in the next three to five years and ultimately to introduce GaN products that compete with silicon carbide in high-power applications such as EV drivetrain inverters. We are excited to have the Odyssey team on board to support those efforts.

7 月 1 日，我們完成了對 Odyssey Semiconductor 資產的收購，增加了垂直 GaN 技術方面的專業知識，該技術支援比當今橫向裝置高得多的電流。此次收購還包括一個無塵室，以實現晶圓的快速週轉並顯著縮短整體開發時間。雖然不能保證成功，但我們相信我們可以實現必要的突破，在未來三到五年內使高功率GaN 成為現實，並最終推出在電動汽車傳動系統逆變器等高功率應用中與碳化矽競爭的GaN產品。我們很高興奧德賽團隊能夠加入來支持這些努力。

With that, I'll turn it over to Sandeep for a review of the financials.

這樣，我會將其交給桑迪普進行財務審查。

Thanks, Balu, and good afternoon. Our Q2 results are straightforward, so I will just quickly recap the numbers and the outlook, and then we will open it up for questions. As usual, I will focus my remarks on the non-GAAP results, which are reconciled to GAAP in our press release.

謝謝巴魯，下午好。我們第二季的結果很簡單，所以我將快速回顧數字和前景，然後我們將開放提問。像往常一樣，我將重點討論非公認會計原則的結果，這些結果在我們的新聞稿中與公認會計原則進行了調整。

Second-quarter revenues were $106 million, just above the midpoint of our guidance, while non-GAAP earnings were $0.28 per diluted share, above the level implied in our guidance as we came in slightly better on both gross margin and operating expenses. Revenues were up 16% compared to the prior quarter with increases in all four end market categories.

第二季營收為1.06 億美元，略高於我們指引的中點，而非GAAP 攤薄後每股收益為0.28 美元，高於我們指引中暗示的水平，因為我們的毛利率和營運費用都略有好轉。與上一季相比，所有四個終端市場類別的收入均成長 16%。

Consumer, our largest category, was up high-teens sequentially. We saw strength across the board in major and small appliances as well as air conditioning, which typically reaches a seasonal peak in the June quarter.

消費者是我們最大的類別，季增了十幾個百分點。我們看到主要和小型家電以及空調全面走強，通常在六月季度達到季節性峰值。

In the industrial category, channel inventory remains slightly elevated but continued its gradual improvement in Q2. Revenue was up mid-single digits sequentially, driven by improved inventories as well as design wins across a range of applications, including metering, where we are seeing growth in India, as Balu noted. The computer category was up more than 40% sequentially, driven largely by tablets as a key end customer has worked through excess inventory. We also saw strength in aftermarket notebook chargers and in monitors.

工業類方面，通路庫存仍小幅上升，但第二季持續逐步改善。正如Balu指出的那樣，由於庫存改善以及一系列應用（包括計量）的設計勝利，收入連續增長了中個位數，我們在印度看到了增長。電腦類別較上季成長超過 40%，主要受到平板電腦的推動，因為主要終端客戶已經解決了庫存過剩問題。我們還看到了售後筆記本充電器和顯示器的優勢。

The communication category was up 10% sequentially, driven by the clearance of inventory at a key handset customer. Revenue mix for the quarter was 42% consumer, 33% industrial, 14% computer, and 11% communication. As Balu noted, distribution inventory ended the quarter at 7.8 weeks, down a full week from the prior quarter as sell-through once again exceeded sell-in. In terms of dollar value, channel inventory reached its lowest level in three years.

受一家主要手機客戶庫存清理的推動，通訊類別較上季成長 10%。本季的收入結構為 42% 消費性、33% 工業類、14% 電腦類和 11% 通訊類。正如 Balu 指出的那樣，本季末的分銷庫存為 7.8 週，比上一季下降了整整一周，因為售出率再次超過了售入量。以美元價值計算，通路庫存達到三年來的最低水準。

Non-GAAP gross margin for the second quarter was 54.1%, up more than a percentage point from the prior quarter, driven by the favorable dollar-yen exchange rate and higher back-end manufacturing volumes.

在有利的美元兌日圓匯率和後端製造量增加的推動下，第二季非美國通用會計準則毛利率為 54.1%，較上一季成長超過一個百分點。

We are projecting another sequential improvement in Q3 as both these factors will continue to provide tailwinds. Non-GAAP operating expenses for the quarter were $44.2 million, up sequentially as expected, due mainly to annual salary increases, which took effect early in the quarter and also due to headcount growth.

我們預計第三季將再次出現連續改善，因為這兩個因素將繼續提供推動力。本季度非 GAAP 營運費用為 4,420 萬美元，環比成長符合預期，這主要是由於本季度初生效的年薪上漲以及員工人數增長。

Non-GAAP earnings for the first quarter were $0.28 per diluted share. Diluted share count for the quarter was 57 million, down slightly from the prior quarter, driven by repurchases.

第一季非 GAAP 攤薄收益為每股 0.28 美元。受回購推動，本季稀釋後股票數量為 5,700 萬股，較上一季略有下降。

We used $11 million for repurchases during the quarter, buying back 164,000 shares. The other primary use of cash in the quarter was $11 million for dividends with an additional $4 million for CapEx. Cash flow from operations for the quarter was $18 million.

本季我們使用了 1,100 萬美元進行回購，回購了 164,000 股股票。本季現金的其他主要用途是 1,100 萬美元用於股息，另外 400 萬美元用於資本支出。該季度營運現金流為 1800 萬美元。

Inventory days were 312 at quarter-end, down 37 days from the prior quarter. Going forward, I expect inventory days to glide downward in conjunction with the recovery in revenues.

季末庫存天數為 312 天，較上季減少 37 天。展望未來，我預期庫存天數將隨著收入的復甦而下降。

Turning to the Q3 outlook, we expect revenues to be $115 million, plus or minus $5 million, a sequential increase of 8% at the midpoint. Non-GAAP gross margin should be between 54.5% and 55% with a sequential increase driven once again by higher manufacturing utilization and the yen. This puts us on course for a full-year gross margin north of 54%.

談到第三季的前景，我們預計營收為 1.15 億美元，上下浮動 500 萬美元，環比中位數成長 8%。非 GAAP 毛利率應在 54.5% 至 55% 之間，製造業利用率上升和日圓匯率再次推動環比成長。這使我們的全年毛利率預計將超過 54%。

Non-GAAP operating expenses should be between $44.5 million and $45 million, up modestly from the second quarter, driven mainly by the additions of Odyssey. For the full year, non-GAAP OpEx is tracking towards an increase of about 5% versus the prior year. That's well below our original plan even with Odyssey adding about $1.5 million of OpEx in the second half of the year. Finally, I expect our Q3 effective tax rate to be approximately 4%.

非 GAAP 營運費用應在 4,450 萬美元至 4,500 萬美元之間，較第二季小幅增長，主要是由於奧德賽的增加。全年來看，非 GAAP 營運支出較上年增加約 5%。即使 Odyssey 在今年下半年增加了約 150 萬美元的營運支出，這也遠低於我們最初的計劃。最後，我預計第三季的有效稅率約為 4%。

And now, operator, let's begin the Q&A.

現在，接線員，我們開始問答。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

David Williams, Benchmark.

大衛威廉斯，基準。

Thanks for letting me ask a question here. I guess, maybe just the first question is maybe around how you're seeing things geographically. And China seems to be getting better in certain segments. Just curious how you're seeing that. And just from some of your comments, didn't sound like maybe you're seeing that same thing, but just kind of curious how you're seeing that geography today.

謝謝你讓我在這裡問問題。我想，也許第一個問題是關於你如何從地理角度看待事物。中國在某些領域似乎正在變得更好。只是好奇你怎麼看。僅從您的一些評論來看，聽起來您可能並沒有看到同樣的事情，但只是有點好奇您今天如何看待這一地理情況。

In China, our biggest exposure is appliances. And as we mentioned, we are not seeing a pickup in demand. The inventory situation has pretty much cleared out. So we are now seeing the current demand, which is actually much lower than what we would have expected. However, thanks to design wins and also our increase in ASP due to higher power levels, we are seeing a growth that is above demand.

在中國，我們最大的曝曬是家電。正如我們所提到的，我們沒有看到需求的回升。庫存狀況已基本清空。所以我們現在看到當前的需求實際上遠低於我們的預期。然而，由於設計的成功以及由於更高的功率水平而導致的平均售價的增加，我們看到了超越需求的成長。

And I think that will continue through the second half and next year. But I think the actual raw demand is essentially flat at this point because of all the challenges China has in terms of the real estate market.

我認為這種情況將持續到下半年和明年。但我認為，由於中國房地產市場面臨的所有挑戰，目前實際的原物料需求基本上持平。

Now the cell phone is a little bit different because there they've moved more to low-end phones. Huawei is doing better on the high end. Obviously, we can't supply to Huawei and they're taking share away from our customers on the higher end of the market. So that situation has not improved in China.

現在手機有點不同，因為他們已經更多地轉向低階手機。華為在高端領域做得更好。顯然，我們無法向華為供貨，他們正在從我們的客戶手中奪走高端市場的份額。所以這種情況在中國並沒有改善。

But if you look at our overall performance, our cell phone has been down more than 50% this year. But the rest of the market, based on our projections, our internal modeling for this year, will be up more than 15%. So we are doing really well everywhere else. The cell phone market, for reasons I mentioned, has shifted in China. We are doing very well outside of China.

但如果你看我們的整體表現，我們的手機今年下降了50%以上。但根據我們的預測和今年的內部模型，市場的其餘部分將上漲 15% 以上。所以我們在其他地方都做得很好。由於我提到的原因，中國的手機市場已經改變了。我們在中國以外的地區做得很好。

And David, one more thing. Even in the high power business in China, the infrastructure grid, projects have been delayed a bit. So that has also impacted, which is a reflection of what Balu is saying what is happening in China.

大衛，還有一件事。即使在中國的高功率業務、基礎設施電網方面，工程也有所推遲。所以這也產生了影響，這反映了巴魯所說的中國正在發生的事情。

And I would add that, having said that, next year should be a very good growth for us because all of this will be out of the picture. The cell phone situation in China, I think, has stabilized at this point. And we should see a nice growth next year in all of the areas.

我想補充一點，話雖如此，明年對我們來說應該是一個非常好的成長，因為所有這些都將不再是問題。我認為中國的手機市場目前已經穩定下來。明年我們應該會看到所有領域都有良好的成長。

Great. Great color there. So I guess, secondly, just if you're thinking about how you're viewing the second half, obviously, it seems like things are a bit more tempered now than maybe last quarter when we were thinking about a stronger second half recovery.

偉大的。那裡的顏色很棒。所以我想，其次，如果你考慮如何看待下半年，顯然，現在的情況似乎比上個季度要溫和一些，當時我們正在考慮下半年的強勁復甦。

What do you think is different today than 90 days ago? Is it simply the macro deteriorating? Or are there other maybe push and pulls that are kind of coming in here? Is it really just about the macro? Thank you.

您認為今天與 90 天前有什麼不同？僅僅是宏觀經濟惡化嗎？或者還有其他可能的推力和拉力在這裡出現嗎？真的只是宏觀的問題嗎？謝謝。

Actually, if you go back to our last call, what we said was that the inventory situation will come back to normal by the middle of this year. And that has pretty much happened. And we also said that we will grow in the second half, but we didn't know the slope of the growth because we don't -- we couldn't see the demand picture. The visibility is very poor.

實際上，如果你回到我們上次的電話會議，我們所說的是庫存狀況將在今年年中恢復正常。這幾乎已經發生了。我們也說過，我們將在下半年實現成長，但我們不知道成長的斜率，因為我們不知道——我們看不到需求狀況。能見度很差。

So you're correct. I think the growth in the second half is less than I would have anticipated, but that was not visible to us in the last quarter. Even now, the visibility for Q4 is very, very low. People are ordering at the last minute because they can. We have lot of inventory. They are skittish about holding inventory after what has happened in the last couple of years.

所以你是對的。我認為下半年的成長低於我的預期，但在上個季度我們並沒有看到這一點。即使現在，第四季的能見度也非常非常低。人們在最後一刻才下訂單，因為他們可以。我們有大量庫存。在過去幾年發生的事情之後，他們對持有庫存感到不安。

So they order when they need the parts. So that makes it very difficult to look into the rest of Q3 and Q4. So I would say your observation is correct.

因此，他們在需要零件時訂購。因此，這使得研究第三季和第四季的其餘部分變得非常困難。所以我想說你的觀察是正確的。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Matt Ramsay, TD Cowen.

馬特·拉姆齊，TD·考恩。

Thank you very much. Good afternoon, everybody. A couple of things I wanted to hit on. I guess my first question, Balu, you guys mentioned in your prepared script lots of things about the movement of the end markets in the short term. But I think what caught my attention a little bit was your commentary about an inflection potentially for GaN across your end markets in 2025 and beyond.

非常感謝。大家下午好。有幾件事我想談一下。我想我的第一個問題是，Balu，你們在準備好的劇本中提到了很多關於短期內終端市場走勢的事情。但我認為引起我注意的是您對 2025 年及以後 GaN 在終端市場可能發生變化的評論。

So maybe you could unpack that a little bit, like what you're seeing with design wins that gives you that confidence? And then the second part, I guess, is what percentage of the business today is GaN? And if you look out two, three years, like where do you think that can get based on what you're seeing?

所以也許你可以稍微解釋一下，就像你所看到的設計勝利給了你信心？我想第二部分是 GaN 在當今業務中所佔的比例是多少？如果你展望兩三年，你認為根據你所看到的情況會得到什麼結果？

So we have mentioned multiple times that most of our new products will be using GaN and they have been using GaN. And we got the best -- first traction on cell phones because that has much shorter design cycles. What we are seeing now is the proliferation of GaN into all of the other markets. And it's driven by our new products like InnoMux-2, InnoGaN, higher voltage InnoSwitch with GaN.

所以我們多次提到我們的大部分新產品將使用GaN，而且他們一直在使用GaN。我們得到了最好的——首先是手機的吸引力，因為它的設計週期要短得多。我們現在看到的是 GaN 擴散到所有其他市場。它是由我們的新產品驅動的，例如 InnoMux-2、InnoGaN、具有 GaN 的更高電壓 InnoSwitch。

All of these are -- will be going into production over time. And we see an inflection point starting in 2025. So just to give you a rough idea, next year, our GaN revenue could grow as much as 50%. And we see the growth rate -- the slope of the growth rate shifting, starting in 2025. And it's pretty much expected and it's nice to see that it is happening right now.

所有這些都將隨著時間的推移投入生產。我們預計 2025 年將出現轉折點。所以給你一個粗略的想法，明年我們的 GaN 收入可能會成長 50%。我們看到成長率－成長率的斜率從 2025 年開始改變。這幾乎是預料之中的事情，很高興看到它現在正在發生。

As far as exact revenues, I would rather focus on what we have going for the future. And we think by 2028, GaN could be -- GaN revenue could be $100 million in that range.

就確切的收入而言，我寧願關注我們未來的發展。我們認為，到 2028 年，GaN 的收入可能會達到 1 億美元。

Got it. Really appreciate the color there. I guess my follow-up question, Sandeep, with a little bit of a historic last 72 hours with the yen, maybe you could just give us a few comments about sort of variability there and how it affects the model. Remind us of the sort of rule of thumb. And if there is currency fluctuations, is that something that hits sort of the manufacturing part of the business in the current quarter?

知道了。真的很欣賞那裡的顏色。我想我的後續問題，Sandeep，有一點歷史性的過去 72 小時日元走勢，也許你可以給我們一些關於那裡的變化以及它如何影響模型的評論。提醒我們這種經驗法則。如果存在貨幣波動，這是否會影響本季業務的製造部分？

And how long would that take to show up in the P&L if there were sustained moves? Is that a quarter out? Is that two quarters out? Just trying to get a sense given when things manufacture versus when they sell.

如果持續變動，需要多久才能反映在損益表中？這已經是四分之一了嗎？已經兩季了？只是想了解產品何時製造和何時銷售。

Yes. So, Matt, as we have said before, typically, in the past, the yen impact, a 10% change in yen would affect us about 120 basis points, give and take. And it would flow off within six months into our P&L. But things have changed with the level of inventory we are carrying.

是的。所以，馬特，正如我們之前所說，通常情況下，在過去，日元的影響，日元 10% 的變化會影響我們大約 120 個基點，給予和接受。它將在六個月內流入我們的損益表。但隨著我們庫存水準的提高，情況發生了變化。

And so if you look at what we are carrying today is significantly larger. As a result, it takes about three to four quarters for it before it flows into the P&L. So I think the big change that you saw recently, if it holds for a while, because as you know, it's not on a daily basis that we adjust. It's over a period of time; we have the yen -- what we call a yen-sharing arrangement with our manufacturing partners.

所以如果你看看我們今天攜帶的東西要大得多。因此，大約需要三到四個季度才能流入損益表。所以我認為你最近看到的巨大變化，如果它持續一段時間，因為如你所知，我們不是每天都在調整。已經過了一段時間了；我們有日圓——我們稱之為與我們的製造合作夥伴的日元共享安排。

So my take is, with the level of inventory we are saying, if this change that happened recently holds, it'll probably impact us a little bit in the fourth quarter or maybe in Q1 of '26. So pretty much for next year, because of the level of inventory we have, the benefit of the yen will flow.

所以我的看法是，根據我們所說的庫存水平，如果最近發生的這種變化持續下去，它可能會在第四季度或 26 年第一季對我們產生一些影響。因此，明年，由於我們的庫存水平，日元的好處將會流動。

In fact, we still see, because the yen had depreciated all this while, from this year to next year, we will still have a little more benefit from yen in the P&L, but we'll have headwinds from input costs that we saw increasing this way. But we'll also get favorability into next year from mix if the cell phone -- the growth comes from non-cell phone areas.

事實上，我們仍然看到，由於日圓一直在貶值，從今年到明年，我們在損益表中仍然會從日圓中獲得更多的好處，但我們將面臨來自投入成本增加的阻力這邊走。但如果手機領域的成長來自非手機領域，我們也將在明年從混合領域獲得青睞。

So if you remember what we said on the Analyst Day, we had kept our model. What we had said is -- even when yen normalizes, which for us means it goes back to 120, we had said that the mix will go favorable, the yen will -- could become a headwind going ahead. But yet -- and the mix would go favorable, but we would still stay in the higher end of the model. And it's kind of playing out pretty much to what we said earlier.

因此，如果您還記得我們在分析師日所說的話，我們保留了我們的模型。我們所說的是——即使日元正常化，這對我們來說意味著回到120，我們說過，這種組合將變得有利，日元將——可能成為未來的逆風。但是，儘管這種組合會變得有利，但我們仍會停留在模型的高端。這與我們之前所說的差不多。

Now the input costs continue to be a challenge, and at least from what we have got this year is, higher costs will impact the P&L next year. But having said all that, we still feel good even for next year that our margin will be at the high end of the model.

現在投入成本仍然是一個挑戰，至少從我們今年的情況來看，更高的成本將影響明年的損益。但話雖如此，我們仍然對明年感到滿意，因為我們的利潤率將處於該車型的高端。

Fine. I think there is lot of moving pieces there, but I think we got most of them. So thanks, Sandeep. I appreciate that. Thanks, guys.

美好的。我認為那裡有很多令人感動的部分，但我認為我們已經得到了其中的大部分。所以謝謝，桑迪普。我很感激。多謝你們。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

All right. Well, it looks like we have no further questions. Shy group today, I guess. So we'll leave it there. Thanks, everybody, for dialing in today. And there will be a replay of this call available on our investor website, which is investors.power.com. Thanks again, and good afternoon.

好的。好吧，看來我們沒有其他問題了。我猜今天是害羞的一群人。所以我們就把它留在那裡。謝謝大家今天撥電話。我們的投資者網站 Investors.power.com 上將重播本次電話會議。再次感謝，下午好。

Thank you, Mr. Shiffler. Ladies and gentlemen, again, that will conclude today's Power Integrations' second-quarter earnings conference. Again, thanks so much for joining us, everyone, and we wish you all a great remainder of your day. Goodbye.

謝謝你，希夫勒先生。女士們、先生們，今天的 Power Integrations 第二季度收益會議將再次結束。再次非常感謝大家加入我們，祝大家有個愉快的一天。再見。