Power Integrations Inc (POWI) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone and welcome to today's Power Integrations, third quarter earnings call. At this time all participants are in a listen-only mode later. You will have an opportunity to ask questions during the question-and-answer session.

大家好，歡迎參加今天的 Power Integrations 第三季財報電話會議。此時所有參與者稍後都處於只聽模式。您將有機會在問答環節提問。

(Operator Instructions) Please note this call is being recorded and I will be standing by. Should you have any, should you need any assistance? It is now my pleasure to turn today's program over to Joe Shiffler, Director of Investor Relations.

（操作員說明）請注意，本次通話正在錄音，我將隨時待命。如果您有的話，您需要任何幫助嗎？現在我很高興將今天的節目交給投資者關係總監 Joe Shiffler。

Thank you, Brittany. Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining us with me on the call. Today are Balu Balakrishnan, Chairman and CEO of Power Integrations and Sandeep Nayyar, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，布列塔尼。大家下午好。感謝您與我一起參加電話會議。今天是 Power Integrations 董事長兼執行長 Balu Balakrishnan 和我們的財務長 Sandeep Nayyar。

During this call, we will refer to financial measures not calculated according to GAAP, Non-GAAP measures exclude stock-based compensation expenses, amortization of acquisition-related intangible assets and the tax effects of these items.

在本次電話會議中，我們將參考未根據 GAAP 計算的財務指標，非 GAAP 指標不包括股票補償費用、收購相關無形資產的攤銷以及這些項目的稅務影響。

A reconciliation of Non-GAAP measures to our GAAP results is included in today's press release. Our discussion today including the Q&A session will include forward-looking statements denoted by words like will, would, believe, should, expect, outlook, forecast, estimate, anticipate and similar expressions that look toward future events or performance

今天的新聞稿中包含了非公認會計原則措施與我們的公認會計原則結果的調節。我們今天的討論（包括問答環節）將包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述用諸如意願、將、相信、應該、期望、展望、預測、估計、預計以及展望未來事件或業績的類似表達方式表示

Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those projected or implied. Such risks are discussed in today's press release and in our most recent form, 10-K filed with the SEC on February 12th, 2024.

此類陳述存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與預測或暗示的結果有重大差異。此類風險在今天的新聞稿以及我們於 2024 年 2 月 12 日向 SEC 提交的最新表格 10-K 中進行了討論。

Now I'll turn the call over to Balu.

現在我將把電話轉給Balu。

Thanks Joe and Good afternoon.

謝謝喬，下午好。

Our third quarter results were on target with revenues up 9% Sequentially $216 million Non-GAAP gross margin of 55.1% and Non-GAAP earnings of $0.40 per share.

我們的第三季業績達到了目標，營收季增 9%，達到 2.16 億美元，非 GAAP 毛利率為 55.1%，非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.40 美元。

Our revenue outlook for the fourth quarter is $105 million plus or minus $5 million. The decrease from Q3 reflects a soft demand environment called out this quarter by many of our analogy peers and by some of our key customers in the appliance market.

我們第四季的營收預期為 1.05 億美元上下 500 萬美元。與第三季相比的下降反映了我們的許多同類同業和家電市場的一些主要客戶在本季提出的疲軟需求環境。

Appliances account for the bulk of our consumer category which comprises nearly 40% of our sales. Further tempering the outlook in consumer is a build-up of appliance inventory at Chinese OEM ahead of the China government's long waited consumer stimulus program, which thus far appears to be having a limited impact.

家電占我們消費類別的大部分，占我們銷售額的近 40%。在中國政府期待已久的消費者刺激計劃出台之前，中國原始設備製造商的家電庫存不斷增加，這進一步削弱了消費者的前景，但迄今為止，該計劃的影響似乎有限。

Overall while the recovery is proceeding in fits and starts. We are pleased to be returning to year over year growth with the midpoint of our Q4 forecast up 17% compared to last year we also expect to remain at the high end of our gross margin model through at least next year. Thanks to the dollar years exchange rate and a favorable end market mix.

總體而言，復甦正在斷斷續續地進行。我們很高興能夠恢復同比增長，第四季度的中點預測比去年增長 17%，我們也預計至少到明年仍將保持毛利率模型的高端。得益於美元年匯率和有利的終端市場組合。

While all four of our end markets should grow in 2025, we expect the strongest growth from industrial which has the highest margins of our four categories. We expect growth in multiple sub segments of industrial led by high power with particular strength in high voltage DC transmission projects, Long distance DC transmission lines deliver renewable energy efficiently to the grid and are also a key part of efforts to modernize power infrastructure to enhance energy security and meet the increasing power needs of AI data centres.

雖然我們的所有四個終端市場都應在 2025 年實現成長，但我們預計工業市場的成長最為強勁，該市場在我們的四個類別中利潤率最高。我們預計以高功率為主導的工業多個細分領域將出現成長，特別是高壓直流輸電項目，長距離直流輸電線路將再生能源有效地輸送到電網，也是電力基礎設施現代化以增強能源效率的關鍵部分安全性並滿足人工智慧資料中心日益增長的電力需求。

In Q3, we won high voltage DC designs with expected annual revenue value of more than $5 million including our second multi-million-dollar design win for tenet, a major North European grid operator. We also expect to begin delivery of our scale to get drivers in early 2025 for two other major projects. Phase one of Saudi Arabia's planned nine-gigawatt link between Yanbu and Neom and an undersea link connecting Japanese islands of Honshu and Hokkaido.

第三季度，我們贏得了高壓直流設計，預計年收入超過 500 萬美元，其中包括為北歐主要電網營運商 Tenet 贏得的第二個價值數百萬美元的設計。我們也預計在 2025 年初開始交付秤，為另外兩個主要項目提供司機。沙烏地阿拉伯計劃建造延布和尼歐姆之間的 9 吉瓦線路的第一階段，以及連接日本本州島和北海道的海底線路。

Metering is another growth driver in the industrial category most notably in India where our meeting business is on track to double this year as the government continues with this planned installation of 250 million smart meters over the next few years. We have earned a sizable share of that market and expect dollar content to increase over time as customers migrate to our 900 and 1250 volt can products to achieve higher efficiency and reliability.

計量是工業領域的另一個成長動力，尤其是在印度，隨著政府繼續計劃在未來幾年安裝 2.5 億個智慧電錶，我們的會議業務今年有望翻一番。我們已經贏得了相當大的市場份額，隨著客戶遷移到我們的 900 和 1250 伏特罐產品以實現更高的效率和可靠性，預計美元含量將隨著時間的推移而增加。

While still early in its revenue ramp, automotive will contribute to our industrial revenues in 2025 leading up to an inflection in 2026. Building on our early success in China with drive train emergency power supplies. We're expanding both geographically and in the range of sockets we are winning as EV's evolve to a distributed architecture requiring multiple converters to power subsystems from the main battery instead of a 12 volt battery.

雖然汽車產業仍處於收入成長的早期階段，但它將在 2025 年為我們的工業收入做出貢獻，並在 2026 年出現轉折點。以我們在中國傳動系統應急電源的早期成功為基礎。隨著電動車發展到分散式架構，需要多個轉換器從主電池而不是 12 伏特電池為子系統供電，我們正在擴大地理範圍和插座範圍。

We achieved an important milestone in September becoming an approved vendor at the world's largest tier one automotive supplier. On the heels of our recent qualification at a major Japanese tier one, they've also had key developments at two American EV customers. in recent weeks.

9 月份，我們實現了一個重要的里程碑，成為全球最大的一級汽車供應商的認可供應商。繼我們最近獲得日本主要一級汽車公司的認證後，他們還在兩家美國電動車客戶中取得了重要進展。最近幾週。

Pre-production began last week on a micro-DC-DC converter socket using our silicon carbide inner switch. While another customer awarded us an emergency power supply socket using the 900 volt can in a switch with production scheduled to begin in 2026.

上週開始使用我們的碳化矽內部開關進行微型 DC-DC 轉換器插座的預生產。另一位客戶向我們提供了一個使用 900 伏特開關的緊急電源插座，計劃於 2026 年開始生產。

In our consumer category, notwithstanding the soft demand environment, our position in appliances remain strong and we are leveraging our market leadership to capture incremental dollar content driven by connectivity LED lighting, restless DC Motors and other features being added to appliances.

在我們的消費類別中，儘管需求環境疲軟，我們在家電領域的地位仍然強勁，我們正在利用我們的市場領導地位來獲取由連接性LED 照明、不間斷直流電機和家電中添加的其他功能驅動的增量美元含量。

We're also seeing strong design activity related to new EU stand by rules set to take effect next year, we are capitalizing on these opportunities with bridge switch motor devices and GaN products including Inner Max two which enables much higher efficiency in appliances, displays and industrial applications through the use of zero voltage switching and the elimination of multiple DC to DC converters at the output.

我們還看到與明年生效的新歐盟備用規則相關的強勁設計活動，我們正在利用這些機會推出橋式開關電機器件和 GaN 產品，包括 Inner Max 2，它可以提高電器、顯示器和設備的效率。使用零電壓開關和消除輸出端的多個直流到直流轉換器，在工業應用中實現了這一點。

Earlier this week, we introduced a new version of INOmax 2 featuring the industry's 1st 1,700 volt GaN switch marking another milestone on the technology road map we presented at our Investors Day in 2022 we developed our proprietary GaN process and device designs with five key attributes in mind, cost reliability, ease of use voltage and power and we are executing to plan on each of them. We concluded early on that even with the superior performance.

本週早些時候，我們推出了新版本的INOmax 2，採用業界第一個1,700 伏GaN 開關，這標誌著我們在2022 年投資者日上展示的技術路線圖上的另一個里程碑，我們開發了專有的GaN 製程和裝置設計，具有以下五個關鍵屬性：思想、成本可靠性、電壓和功率的易用性，我們正在對每一項進行規劃。我們很早就得出結論，即使性能優越。

our GaN had to be cost competitive with silicon to achieve mass adoption. Over the past six years, we have executed on an aggressive cost reduction road map that has our GaN on the verge of parity with the most advanced silicon mass. But with far superior performance, reservations about reliability and ease of use are the top concerns. We hear from automotive and AI data centre customers that have struggled to use discrete can devices redesigned Pagan to be inherently more reliable than other GaN technologies and we now have over a trillion hours of field operation to prove it.

我們的 GaN 必須具有與矽相比的成本競爭力才能實現大規模採用。在過去的六年裡，我們執行了一項積極降低成本的路線圖，使我們的 GaN 接近與最先進的矽品質相當。但由於性能遠超優越，對可靠性和易用性的保留是最受關注的問題。我們從汽車和人工智慧資料中心客戶那裡得知，他們一直在努力使用重新設計的Pagan 分立罐裝置，使其本質上比其他GaN 技術更可靠，我們現在有超過一萬億小時的現場操作來證明這一點。

Our GaN is also easy to use because of the system level approach that has defined our product strategy for the past 30 years, not only are discrete power devices eventually commoditized, they are also harder to use. and this is especially true of GaN because of its extreme high switching speed, all began switches are incorporated in system level products with our innovative controllers and drivers that provide comprehensive protection and optimize the performance of the switch, Eliminating the trickiest aspects of designing with GaN.

我們的 GaN 也易於使用，因為系統級方法定義了我們過去 30 年的產品策略，不僅分立功率裝置最終商品化，而且也更難使用。對於GaN 來說尤其如此，因為它具有極高的開關速度，所有開始的開關都透過我們創新的控制器和驅動器整合到系統級產品中，這些控制器和驅動器提供全面的保護並優化開關的性能，消除了GaN 設計中最棘手的方面。

Engineers familiar with our silicon based products can use Gan versions of the same products seamlessly taking advantage of GaN superior performance with no added design effort.

熟悉我們矽基產品的工程師可以無縫地使用相同產品的 GaN 版本，充分利用 GaN 的卓越性能，而無需額外的設計工作。

In fact, this strategy has worked so well with our end switch products that we are now refreshing some high volume legacy products with GAN to enhance performance and extend the power ranges of products that our customers love to use.

事實上，這項策略對我們的終端交換器產品非常有效，因此我們現在正在使用 GAN 更新一些大批量的傳統產品，以提高效能並擴展客戶喜歡使用的產品的功率範圍。

We also have a pipeline of new system level GaN products targeting higher power applications we don't address today including AI data center EV on board chargers telecom infrastructure and more, these products will help us reach our goal of expanding our SAM to an estimated $8 million over the next few years. In terms of voltage while the leading foundry technology is limited to 750 volts, our unique process and device technologies offer a clear path to higher voltages.

我們還有一系列新的系統級GaN 產品，針對我們目前尚未解決的更高功率應用，包括人工智慧資料中心、電動車車載充電器、電信基礎設施等，這些產品將幫助我們實現將SAM 擴展到估計8 美元的目標未來幾年達百萬。就電壓而言，雖然領先的代工技術僅限於 750 伏特，但我們獨特的製程和裝置技術提供了通往更高電壓的清晰途徑。

Following our announcement earlier this week, we now have GAN devices at 750 volts, 900 volts, 1,250 1,700 volts with more to come. Many industrial customers prefer higher voltage ratings for three phase applications and as an insurance against surges and spikes, especially in areas with unstable AC grid voltages in the EV market is 1,700 volt rating is essential for flyback power supplies in 800 and 1000 volt battery systems which today can only be addressed by silicon carbide.

繼本週稍早發佈公告後，我們現在擁有 750 伏特、900 伏特、1,250 伏特、1,700 伏特的 GAN 設備，未來還會推出更多電壓。許多工業客戶喜歡三相應用更高的額定電壓，作為防止浪湧和尖峰的保險，特別是在電動車市場中交流電網電壓不穩定的地區，1,700 伏特額定值對於800 和1000 伏特電池系統中的反激式電源至關重要。

The final track of our GaN road map is power and we are approaching that from multiple directions. The output capability of our current technology continues to increase and is now in tens of kilowatts.

我們的 GaN 路線圖的最後一個軌道是功率，我們正在從多個方向實現這一目標。我們現在的技術輸出能力不斷提高，現在已經達到了幾十千瓦。

We are also developing an all new GaN technology capable of delivering hundreds of kilowatts which we believe would make can an alternative to silicon carbide in drive train up inverters at much lower cost and with superior performance.

我們也正在開發一種全新的 GaN 技術，能夠提供數百千瓦的功率，我們相信該技術將成為驅動系統逆變器中碳化矽的替代品，且成本低得多，性能優越。

While the necessary breakthroughs are still a few years away, we are excited about our progress and our acquisition of Odyssey last quarter will help accelerate our development while the full deceptive potential of GaN will unfold over many years to come. We expect wider GaN adoption to be a significant growth driver in 2025 when GaN products should account for more than 10% of sales.

雖然距離必要的突破還需要幾年的時間，但我們對我們的進展感到興奮，上季度我們對Odyssey 的收購將有助於加速我們的發展，而GaN 的全部欺騙潛力將在未來許多年中展現出來。我們預計 2025 年 GaN 的廣泛應用將成為重要的成長動力，屆時 GaN 產品將佔銷售額的 10% 以上。

Recent wins include major next generation game console now ramping with GaN in a switch, I see a 65 watt notebook adapter for wire and 140 watt multiport adapter for a suit containing GaN inner switch and hyper PFS power factor I, we're also seeing existing designs migrate to GaN such as our five G fixed wireless design in India.

最近的勝利包括主要的下一代遊戲機現在在開關中配備了GaN，我看到了用於電線的65 瓦筆記本適配器和用於包含GaN 內部開關和超PFS 功率因數I 的套裝的140 瓦多端口適配器，我們也看到了現有的設計遷移到 GaN，例如我們在印度的 5G 固定無線設計。

That program ran this year with silicon based products but should generate incremental growth next year as customers add GAN to the mix mainly to reduce the size of the power supply. To conclude though our outlook reflects industry wide demand, softness. We expect strong year over year growth in Q4 while 2024 revenues will be down from the prior year due to the losses we suffered in the China cell phone market. Early this year, combined sales into industrial consumer and computer categories will be up mid to high (inaudible) for 2024.

該計劃今年使用基於矽的產品運行，但明年應該會產生增量增長，因為客戶將 GAN 添加到組合中主要是為了減小電源的尺寸。總而言之，我們的前景反映了整個行業的需求疲軟。我們預計第四季度將年增強勁，而由於我們在中國手機市場遭受損失，2024 年營收將較上年下降。今年年初，2024 年工業消費和電腦類別的合併銷售額將達到中高水準（聽不清楚）。

We expect that momentum to carry into 2025 sustained by strong growth in GaN products and high power, a broad range of new designments and a return to growth in communications driven by non-cell phone applications.

我們預計，由於 GaN 產品和高功率的強勁成長、廣泛的新設計以及非手機應用推動的通訊領域的恢復成長，這一勢頭將持續到 2025 年。

And now I'll turn it over to Sandeep for a review of the financials.

現在我將把它交給桑迪普來審查財務狀況。

Thanks Balu and good afternoon. As usual, I will focus my remarks on the non-GAAP results which are reconciled to GAAP in our press release, third quarter, revenues were $116 million just over the midpoint of our guidance. While our non-GAAP earnings were $0.40 per deleted share above the level implied in our guidance as we came in slightly better on gross margin and operating expenses.

謝謝巴魯，下午好。像往常一樣，我將重點討論非 GAAP 業績，這些業績在我們的新聞稿中與 GAAP 進行了調整，第三季度收入為 1.16 億美元，略高於我們指導的中點。雖然我們的非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.40 美元，但高於我們指引中暗示的水平，因為我們的毛利率和營運費用略好一些。

While we expect sequential lower revenues in Q4, we are returning to year over year growth as balu noted and believe we are poised for strong growth in 2025. Reflecting confidence in our outlook as well as our healthy balance sheet, our board has declared a 5% dividend increase and authorized $50 million for share repurchases commencing in the coming days subject to price volume thresholds prescribed by the board.

雖然我們預計第四季度營收將環比下降，但正如 balu 指出的那樣，我們將恢復同比增長，並相信我們將在 2025 年實現強勁增長。為了反映對我們的前景以及健康的資產負債表的信心，我們的董事會宣布將股息增加5%，並授權在未來幾天開始進行5000 萬美元的股票回購，但須遵守董事會規定的價格量門檻。

Returning to the quarterly results revenues were up 9% compared to the prior quarter. Industrial revenues grew midteen sequentially driven by high power home and building automation and metering applications.

回到季度業績，營收較上一季成長 9%。在高功率家庭和建築自動化及計量應用的推動下，工業收入連續成長了15%。

Broad based industrial also showed sequential improvement as distribution inventories declined further in Q3 and are now at historically normal levels.

隨著第三季分銷庫存進一步下降，目前處於歷史正常水平，基礎廣泛的工業也出現了環比改善。

The communication category was up 20% sequentially driven mainly by the ramp of our 5G fixed wireless business in India as well as seasonal growth in smartphone charges.

通訊類別較上季成長 20%，主要是由於我們在印度 5G 固定無線業務的成長以及智慧型手機費用的季節性成長。

Revenue from the computer category was up 10% sequentially on strength in OEM and aftermarket notebook charges, consumer was flat sequentially as seasonal softness and air conditioning was offset by strength in major appliance and gaming distribution sell through for consumer was less than sell in reflecting the trend Balu mentioned and resulting in higher channel inventory for consumer. Compared to the prior quarter.

由於OEM 和售後筆記型電腦費用強勁，電腦類別的收入環比增長10%；消費者環比持平，原因是季節性疲軟和空調被主要家電的強勢所抵消，而消費者的遊戲分銷銷量低於銷量，反映出Balu提到的趨勢導致消費者的通路庫存增加。與上一季相比。

Overall channel inventory increased to 8.6 weeks up from 7.8 weeks at the end of June. With the increase driven entirely by consumer, channel inventory for each of the other categories decrease from the prior quarter.

整體通路庫存從 6 月底的 7.8 週增加至 8.6 週。由於成長完全由消費者推動，其他每個類別的通路庫存均較上一季下降。

Revenue mix for the quarter was 38% consumer, 36% industrial, 14% computer and 12% communications. non-GAAP gross margin for the third quarter was 55.1%. Up 1% point from the prior quarter driven mainly by higher back-end manufacturing volumes.

本季的收入結構為 38% 消費性、36% 工業類、14% 電腦類和 12% 通訊類。第三季非公認會計原則毛利率為55.1%。較上一季成長 1%，主要是由於後端製造量增加。

non-GAAP operating expenses were $43.7 million down 500,000 sequentially despite the addition of about a half a million dollars from Odyssey.

儘管奧德賽增加了約 50 萬美元，但非 GAAP 營運費用為 4,370 萬美元，比上一季減少了 50 萬美元。

non-GAAP earnings for the third quarter were $0.40 per diluted share. Diluted share count for the quarter was 57 million unchanged from the prior quarter.

第三季非 GAAP 攤薄收益為每股 0.40 美元。本季稀釋後股票數量為 5,700 萬股，與上一季持平。

Cash flow from operations was $33 million while CapEx was $6 million. Other key users of cash were $10 million for the Odyssey acquisition and $11 million for dividends.

營運現金流為 3,300 萬美元，資本支出為 600 萬美元。其他主要現金用途包括 1000 萬美元用於收購 Odyssey 和 1100 萬美元用於股息。

Inventory days fell to 291 at quarter end down 21 days from the prior quarter.

季末庫存天數下降至 291 天，較上季減少 21 天。

Turning to the Q4 for outlook, we expect revenues to be $105 million plus or minus 5 million.

展望第四季度，我們預計營收為 1.05 億美元上下 500 萬美元。

Non-GAAP gross margin should be between 55% and 55.5% as compared to 55.1% in Q3.

非 GAAP 毛利率應在 55% 至 55.5% 之間，而第三季為 55.1%。

The slight sequential increase at the midpoint reflects an increased percentage of revenue from the industrial category which is our highest margin in market Non-GAAP operating expenses should be between 44.5 and $45 million up modestly from the third quarter, driven mainly by head count increases for the full year. Non-GAAP OpEx will be up just 4% from the prior year with 1% point of the increase driven by the Odyssey purchase.

中點的環比小幅增長反映了工業類別收入的百分比增加，這是我們市場上利潤率最高的非公認會計原則運營支出應比第三季度小幅增加 44.5 至 4500 萬美元，這主要是由於全年。非 GAAP 營運支出將僅比去年增加 4%，其中 1% 的增幅是由 Odyssey 收購推動的。

Finally, I expect our effective tax rate to remain in the low single digits in Q4 and then to increase into the mid-single digits for 2025.

最後，我預計我們的有效稅率將在第四季度保持在較低的個位數，然後在 2025 年增加到中個位數。

And now operator, let's begin the Q&A.

現在接線員，讓我們開始問答。

Thank you at this time. If you would like to ask a question, (Operator Instructions). we'll take our first question from David Williams with Benchmark. Your line is now open.

這次謝謝你了。如果您想提出問題，（操作員說明）。我們將回答 David Williams 與 Benchmark 提出的第一個問題。您的線路現已開通。

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question.

嘿，大家下午好。感謝您提出我的問題。

Hi David.

嗨大衛。

And forgive me, I missed a little bit of the call here had some issues but you know, lots of things, lots of moving pieces here. But the one thing I did want to ask was just around the 1,700 volt GaN announcement that you had recently. Can you talk maybe just a little bit about that, how you see demand developing and maybe just where that fits in? Is it industrial automotive and given the what would seem like large markets, how you think that ramps.

請原諒我，我錯過了一些電話，這裡有一些問題，但你知道，這裡有很多事情，很多令人感動的事情。但我確實想問的一件事是您最近發布的 1,700 伏特 GaN 公告。您能否簡單談談這一點，您如何看待需求的發展以及需求的發展？是工業車嗎？

Yeah, the 1,700 volt is required to operate from 800 volt and 1,000 volt battery systems in automotive applications. The cars are moving from 400 to 800 the larger vehicles like trucks and the heavy vehicles are moving to 1,000 volts and so this is a perfect fit for that market.

是的，汽車應用中的 800 伏特和 1,000 伏特電池系統需要 1,700 伏特電壓才能運作。汽車的電壓從 400 伏特提高到 800 伏特，卡車等大型車輛和重型車輛的電壓則提高到 1,000 伏特，因此非常適合該市場。

And also in three phase industrial applications, they prefer to have a pretty high voltage rating because these meters sit directly on very low impedance lines next to the transformer, for example, as a result, they can get a significant transient from lightning and so on. So they prefer the 1,700 volts. Currently, this market is served by Silicon Carbide. We believe GaN is a much better solution both in terms of efficiency and cost.

而且在三相工業應用中，他們更喜歡具有相當高的額定電壓，因為這些儀表直接位於變壓器旁邊的非常低阻抗線上，例如，因此，他們可能會因閃電等而產生顯著的瞬變。所以他們更喜歡 1,700 伏特。目前，該市場由碳化矽服務。我們相信 GaN 在效率和成本方面都是更好的解決方案。

Great. Thanks so much. I really appreciate the color. They're very helpful. And then just lastly, I wanted to ask maybe broader but just thinking of the last election, are there areas of your business you think will be will benefit or maybe be impacted by the new administration and specifically thinking about renewables and solar applications, but also just some of the energy efficiency regulations and any other color on that would be helpful. Thank you.

偉大的。非常感謝。我真的很欣賞這種顏色。他們非常有幫助。最後，我想問一個可能更廣泛的問題，但只是想想上次選舉，您認為您的業務領域是否會受益或可能受到新政府的影響，特別是考慮可再生能源和太陽能應用，但也只是一些能源效率法規和任何其他顏色都會有幫助。謝謝。

You know, that's, that's a good question. You know, we, I haven't thought through all of that, but I would say that the train has left the station when it comes to electric cars and renewables and so on. The renewables are now less expensive than coal plants. So most countries are installing additional capacity in renewals renewables for that exact reason. Of course, there is also the environmental benefit which I think you know that the entire world now recognizes is critical given all the climate disasters we have had over the last few years. So I am not at all concerned that it will in any way slow down. Either electric car, cars or renewables or high voltage DC transmission systems. And let me talk a little bit more about high voltage DC transmissions.

你知道，這是一個好問題。你知道，我們，我還沒有考慮到所有這些，但我想說，當涉及電動車和可再生能源等時，火車已經離開車站。再生能源現在比燃煤電廠便宜。因此，正是出於這個原因，大多數國家都在再生能源方面安裝了額外的容量。當然，還有環境效益，我想你知道，鑑於過去幾年我們遭受的所有氣候災難，全世界現在都認識到這一點至關重要。所以我一點也不擔心它會以任何方式減慢。無論是電動車、汽車或再生能源或高壓直流輸電系統。讓我多談談高壓直流輸電。

The high voltage DC transmitter is much more efficient than AC transmission and it is really quite integral to any new power station, whether it's renewable or nuclear. If you have a power station and you have to transmit that to a load, let's say AI data centre, for example, you have to have a very efficient way to do that and than DC transmission does exactly that.

高壓直流發射機比交流傳輸效率高得多，而且它對於任何新發電廠來說都是不可或缺的，無論是再生能源發電站還是核電廠。如果你有一個發電站，並且必須將其傳輸到負載（例如人工智慧資料中心），那麼你必須有一種非常有效的方法來做到這一點，而直流傳輸恰恰可以做到這一點。

And then if you have offshore wind forms the only way to get the power on shore on the ground is through DC transmission AC would be way too lossy in terms of the cables. So I don't think the trend has any impact on our you know, our business in fact, I would say in terms of you know, generating more oil, it'll have a positive impact on our high power business because we sell into applications like fracking. They need large motors to pump liquids into the ground and that's a huge market for us in terms of our high power board level business.

然後，如果您有離岸風電形式，那麼在地面上獲得岸上電力的唯一方法是透過直流輸電，而交流電對於電纜而言損耗太大。因此，我認為這種趨勢不會對我們的業務產生任何影響，事實上，我想說的是，生產更多的石油，這將對我們的高功率業務產生積極影響，因為我們銷售水力壓裂等應用。他們需要大型馬達將液體泵入地下，這對我們的高功率板級業務來說是一個巨大的市場。

Thank you. And we'll take our next question from Tour Sanford with Cecil Nicholas. Your line is now open.

謝謝。我們將與塞西爾·尼古拉斯一起回答桑福德之旅的下一個問題。您的線路現已開通。

Thank you. This is Jeremy calling for Tory. Yeah, let me add my congrats on that 1,700 volts product that's that we've been waiting for that and it's very nice to see just to follow up on, on that point. I guess can you talk about maybe, you know how much of a lead you have in in high power GaN? And you talked about the price, almost price purity with silicon. Can you talk about maybe how it compares to silicon carbide? How much of a, I guess a advantage you have in that space? Thank you.

謝謝。這是傑里米打電話給托里。是的，讓我對我們一直在等待的 1,700 伏特產品表示祝賀，很高興看到在這一點上繼續跟進。我想你可以談談，你知道你在高功率 GaN 領域有多少領先優勢嗎？你談到了價格，幾乎是矽純度的價格。您能談談它與碳化矽相比如何嗎？我猜你在這個領域有多少優勢？謝謝。

Thanks Jeremy, Excellent question. Let me start with the 750 volt again, which primarily competes with the (inaudible) and there we think we're getting very close to being parity with the you know, even the high end (inaudible) within the next year or so, And at 750 volts, we are also very cost competitive with the silicon or silicon carbide of course, if you are cost competitive with silicon, you are dramatically cost competitive with silicon carbide. And these applications include AI data centres, it includes on board charges for electric vehicles it also includes telecom infrastructure. All of these are in the I would say 1 to 20 kilowatt range and we already have products in development. These products will be ready sometime in 2026 and that opens up a huge market for us. So with our existing 750 volt technology, we can be very competitive with silicon and of course much more competitive than silicon carbide all the way up to tons of kilowatts.

謝謝傑里米，很好的問題。讓我再次從 750 伏特開始，它主要與（聽不清楚）競爭，我們認為我們已經非常接近與你知道的平價，甚至在明年左右的高端（聽不清楚），並且在750 伏特電壓下，我們與矽或碳化矽相比也極具成本競爭力，當然，如果您與矽相比具有成本競爭力，那麼與碳化矽相比也具有顯著的成本競爭力。這些應用包括人工智慧資料中心，包括電動車的車載收費，還包括電信基礎設施。所有這些都在 1 至 20 千瓦範圍內，我們已經有正在開發的產品。這些產品將於 2026 年某個時候準備就緒，這為我們打開了巨大的市場。因此，利用我們現有的 750 伏特技術，我們可以與矽競爭，當然比碳化矽競爭更激烈，直到數噸千瓦為止。

Now, when you go to higher voltages like 1,250 volts and 1,700 volts, the real competition is silicon carbide and we are very competitive with silicon carbide up to about 100 plus watts. Our products currently we've introduced are in the just under 100 watts and we are very competitive there. Now, if you want to go to much higher power levels like hundreds of kilowatts, that's where we need new technology. We are working on that for some time now.

現在，當您使用 1,250 伏特和 1,700 伏特等更高電壓時，真正的競爭是碳化矽，我們與高達 100 多瓦的碳化矽競爭非常激烈。我們目前推出的產品功率不到 100 瓦，我們在這方面非常有競爭力。現在，如果你想達到更高的功率水平，例如數百千瓦，這就是我們需要新技術的地方。我們已經為此努力了一段時間。

And with the acquisition of Odyssey Semiconductor, we will be able to speed up the technology because it comes with the fab it also comes with people with the knowledge of the device and we have made a lot of progress on that. We have a few more breakthroughs to get there. And we are now beginning to feel that we can get there in the next 3 to 5 years. And when we get there, we'll have a very competitive offering compared to silicon carbide will not only be lower cost than silicon carbide at those power levels, but it'll also be much higher performance than silicon carbide.

透過收購奧德賽半導體，我們將能夠加快該技術的發展，因為它配備了晶圓廠，也配備了具有該設備知識的人員，我們在這方面取得了很大進展。我們還有一些突破要實現這個目標。我們現在開始覺得我們可以在未來 3 到 5 年內實現這一目標。當我們到達那裡時，與碳化矽相比，我們將擁有非常有競爭力的產品，不僅在這些功率水平上比碳化矽成本更低，而且性能也比碳化矽高得多。

So, and as you all know, silicon carbide requires a lot of capital investment whereas the GaN does not and GaN inherently is going to be cost effective long term because of you know, the temperatures at which they're manufactured, which is similar to silicon. And therefore, it doesn't require anywhere near the amount of energy consumption that silicon carbide requires silicon carbide as many of, you know, it requires manufacturing at 2000 degrees which is about half the temperature of the sun by the way and it takes a lot of money, a lot of energy and a lot of capital investment to do that. And that that is not the case with silicon for our GaN.

因此，眾所周知，碳化矽需要大量資本投資，而氮化鎵則不需要，而且從長遠來看，氮化鎵本質上具有成本效益，因為它們的製造溫度類似於矽。因此，它所需的能源消耗量遠不及碳化矽所需的能源消耗量，您知道，它需要在 2000 度的溫度下製造，順便說一句，這大約是太陽溫度的一半，並且需要為此需要大量的資金、精力和資本投資。但我們的 GaN 矽材質卻並非如此。

So we really think GaN would be the most attractive alternative to silicon carbide all the way up to several 100 kilowatts once we have this new technology up and running.

因此，我們確實認為，一旦我們啟動並運行這項新技術，GaN 將成為碳化矽最具吸引力的替代品，功率可達數百千瓦。

Thank you for that. That's very, very helpful. And then maybe as a follow up, you mentioned, you know, migrating some of your legacy products to GaN, can you give us a sense of how much of your portfolio is consisting of Gan now and, and how much maybe you intend to convert. I know you also targeted 10% of revenue for GaN. I think it was next year. You know, as you look, it might be kind of further out but 3 to 5 years out, how much revenue do you expect to drive from GaN? Thank you.

謝謝你。這非常非常有幫助。然後，也許作為後續行動，您提到，您知道，將一些遺留產品遷移到 GaN，您能否讓我們了解您的產品組合現在有多少由 GaN 組成，以及您可能打算轉換多少。我知道您還計劃將 10% 的收入用於 GaN。我想那是明年。你知道，正如你所看到的，這可能有點遙遠，但 3 到 5 年後，你預計從 GaN 獲得多少收入？謝謝。

You know, GaN is going to replace silicon as a high voltage switch in pretty much all of our products. Everything we are designing now is using GaN. You know, except at very low power levels, which is really not our focus at this point. We are focusing on higher and higher power levels, for example, the AI data center product or on board charger product, those are all GaN products and that's the only way to get the performance you need is the only way to get the power levels you need. You know, the silicon just won't cut it at, at those power levels, you know, 10,15 kilowatts, even though silicon is predominantly used today, that's only because GaN technology is not high enough reliability.

您知道，GaN 將取代矽作為我們幾乎所有產品中的高壓開關。我們現在設計的一切都使用 GaN。您知道，除了非常低的功率水平之外，這實際上不是我們目前的重點。我們專注於越來越高的功率水平，例如AI資料中心產品或車載充電器產品，這些都是GaN產品，這是獲得您需要的性能的唯一方法，也是獲得您需要的功率水平的唯一方法。需要。您知道，在 10.15 千瓦的功率等級下，矽無法滿足要求，儘管如今主要使用矽，但這只是因為 GaN 技術的可靠性不夠高。

At least from a customer's point of view are not easy to use. That's where our technology will sign, we have much higher reliability than anybody else's game technology and we also have easier to use product because we don't sell them as discrete, we sell them as system level products. So the customers don't have to deal with all the (inaudible) increases of GaN not only in terms of protecting the GaN but also getting the most performance out of the game.

至少從客戶的角度來看並不好用。這就是我們的技術的標誌，我們的可靠性比其他任何人的遊戲技術都要高得多，而且我們也有更易於使用的產品，因為我們不將它們作為離散產品出售，我們將它們作為系統級產品出售。因此，客戶不必應對 GaN 的所有（聽不清楚）增加，不僅可以保護 GaN，還可以從遊戲中獲得最大效能。

So I think that, you know, the future of our company is, is going to be GaN and we, I mean, if you were to ask me where we would be in terms of revenue, I wouldn't be surprised if you, if we cross 100 million by 2028 and GaN products. But that's only because in some areas, it takes longer for the GaN to be the new products to be adopted but we are seeing GaN growth in all four of our markets. You know, the we actually grew gain revenue in all markets except cell phones where as you know, the people are going out of the box and therefore there was a little bit of a drag in that market. But if you take out cell phones, we grew very nicely this year. And of course, we're going to grow very nicely next year and onward.

所以我認為，我們公司的未來將是 GaN，我的意思是，如果你問我我們的收入情況如何，我不會感到驚訝，如果我們到 2028 年銷量突破 1 億，GaN 產品。但這只是因為在某些領域，GaN 新產品的採用需要更長的時間，但我們在所有四個市場都看到了 GaN 的成長。你知道，我們實際上在手機以外的所有市場都獲得了收入成長，正如你所知，人們正在打破常規，因此該市場受到了一些拖累。但如果你把手機拿出來，我們今年的成長非常好。當然，明年及以後我們將取得非常好的成長。

Jeremy in the next few years, GaN is going to be really growing quite a bit and I can see it being about 20% of our revenue in the next 2 to 3 years.

Jeremy 在接下來的幾年裡，GaN 將真正實現相當大的成長，我可以看到它在未來 2 到 3 年內將占我們收入的 20% 左右。

Great. Thank you very much, appreciate that.

偉大的。非常感謝，非常感謝。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions). we'll take our next question from Christopher Rolland with Susquehanna. Your line is open.

謝謝。 （操作員說明）。我們將接受來自薩斯奎哈納的克里斯多福羅蘭的下一個問題。您的線路已開通。

Hey, guys, thanks for the question. I guess first of all, if you guys could help us kind of force rank the segments for your outlook next quarter, I guess maybe versus the, I think it was down nine sequential. What would be better, what would be worse? And I know it's probably a bit early for March, but we track that seasonally is flat. I wonder if you had a early expectation there for, for growth. Thank you.

嘿，夥計們，謝謝你的提問。我想首先，如果你們能幫助我們對下個季度的前景進行強制排名，我想也許與我認為相比，我認為它連續九個季度下降。什麼會更好，什麼會更糟？我知道三月可能有點早，但我們追蹤到季節性持平。我想知道您是否對成長有早期的期望。謝謝。

So I think for the next quarter as we indicated, the industrial segment from a dollar standpoint will be kind of flattish. So as because the revenue is lower will be higher as a percentage of revenue and the other three segments will be down. So that's the directional answer we can give you at this point of time for the Q4

因此，我認為，正如我們所指出的，下個季度，從美元的角度來看，工業領域將表現平淡。因為收入較低，佔收入的百分比將會較高，而其他三個部分將會下降。這就是我們目前可以為您提供的第四季度的方向性答案

In Q1 it's a little early. But I think in historical terms in Q1, typically you see the high power business which is in the industrial segment is, tends to be a little lower and cell phones are a little lower and AC which is an air conditioning starts ramping up So that's the directional idea that I can give you for Q1, but it's a little too early.

第一季還為時過早。但我認為，從第一季的歷史來看，通常你會看到工業領域的高功率業務往往會低一些，手機也會低一些，而空調（空調）開始增加，這就是我可以為您提供第一季的方向性想法，但現在還為時過早。

Yup, Thank you, Sandy. And then, I just understand, I would like to understand the inventory across these end markets. You know, where it's still worse, overall, you know, selling versus sell through. How do you think that kind of finished across distribution for the quarter? And then lastly, you know, tying all into this, the appliance market, I think what you were saying is finished white goods inventory was built ahead of this China stimulus if I understand that correctly and yeah, just, just putting all this together from inventory and then sell and sell through would be great. Thank you.

是的，謝謝你，桑迪。然後，我只是想了解這些終端市場的庫存。你知道，整體而言，銷售與售完的情況更糟。您認為本季的分銷情況如何？最後，你知道，將所有這些與家電市場聯繫起來，我認為你所說的是成品白色家電庫存是在中國刺激計劃之前建立的，如果我理解正確的話，是的，只是將所有這些放在一起庫存，然後銷售和銷售會很棒。謝謝。

Yes. As we said on our call that the major sell through, you know that the selling was higher and then sell through and the reason was mainly in the area of consumer. If you look at the prior quarter, our consumer inventory was way below our eight weeks but this quarter because of the Chinese inventory build, our sell in was greater than sales. It was entirely in the consumer segment. So as a result, our consumer end inventory in the channel is slightly above the eight weeks, which is normal while as all the other area, it has come back to the normal level.

是的。正如我們在電話中所說的那樣，主要是拋售，你知道拋售較高，然後拋售，原因主要是在消費者領域。如果你看看上一季度，我們的消費者庫存遠低於八週的水平，但本季由於中國庫存的增加，我們的銷售量大於銷售量。它完全屬於消費領域。因此，我們在通路中的消費端庫存略高於八週，這是正常的，而與所有其他區域一樣，它已經恢復到正常水平。

Okay, understood and sorry, did that would that include, did I get the dynamic correct on the build ahead of a white box and appliance inventory was that correct? Yeah.

好的，理解了，抱歉，這是否包括，我在白盒之前獲得了構建的動態正確信息，並且設備庫存是否正確？是的。

That, that's correct. In the first half, we had very strong consumer business, which was kind of a false positive our consumer customers, which is appliance customers, they thought second half will be very strong, especially in China because of the incentives, they were expecting the government to provide for purchase of appliances. Now, first of all the, you know, it came very late, the incentives and also the incentive is not a uniform, they are different in different parts of China and it's not clear to us so far that there's any significant benefit or impact of those incentives on the demand.

那個，說得對。上半年，我們的消費者業務非常強勁，這有點誤報我們的消費者客戶，即家電客戶，他們認為下半年會非常強勁，特別是在中國，因為有激勵措施，他們期待政府提供購買電器的費用。現在，首先，你知道，它來得很晚，激勵措施和激勵措施不是統一的，它們在中國不同地區是不同的，到目前為止我們還不清楚這有什麼重大的好處或影響。激勵。

So the appliance customers who are expecting a strong demand in the second half, they don't see that the demand is continues to be weak. So they ended up with a bunch of inventory and you have to remember they always build the power supply first before they build the end product because they don't want the end product to wait for the power supply.

因此，預計下半年需求強勁的家電客戶並沒有看到需求持續疲軟。因此，他們最終擁有了一堆庫存，你必須記住，他們總是在製造最終產品之前先製造電源，因為他們不希望最終產品等待電源。

And so we had a very strong consumer business in the first half and unfortunately, in the second half, it has slowed down significantly because of the finished goods inventory of the end product at our customers. Our distribution inventory is slightly above, it's not so bad, but it was significantly below as Sandeep pointed out the last quarter so it was a surprise to us that, you know, the sell through in consumer was slow. We expected a strong consumer in the second half based on what we saw in the first half.

因此，我們在上半年擁有非常強勁的消費業務，但不幸的是，在下半年，由於我們客戶的最終產品的成品庫存，它已顯著放緩。我們的分銷庫存略高於，這還不錯，但正如桑迪普上個季度指出的那樣，它明顯低於，所以令我們驚訝的是，你知道，消費者的銷售速度很慢。根據上半年的情況，我們預計下半年消費者將會強勁。

Excellent. Thank you very much guys.

出色的。非常感謝你們。

Thank you. We have no further questions in the queue. I will turn the program back over to Joe Shiffler.

謝謝。我們隊列中沒有其他問題了。我會將這個程式轉回給喬希夫勒。

All right, thanks everyone for listening. There will be a replay of this call available on our investor website, which is investors.power.com, Thanks again and good afternoon.

好的，謝謝大家的收聽。我們的投資人網站 Investors.power.com 上將提供本次電話會議的重播，再次感謝，下午好。

This does conclude today's program. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect at any time and have a wonderful day.

今天的節目到此結束。感謝您的參與。您可以隨時斷開連接並度過美好的一天。