Power Integrations Inc (POWI) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Meg, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Power Integrations Q1 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你的支持。我叫梅格，今天我將擔任你們的會議操作員。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Power Integrations 第一季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the call over to Joe Shiffler, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係總監 Joe Shiffler。請繼續。

Thank you, Meg. Good afternoon. Thanks, everyone, for joining us. With me on the call today are Balu Balakrishnan, Chairman and CEO of Power Integrations; and Sandeep Nayyar, our Chief Financial Officer. During this call, we will refer to financial measures not calculated according to GAAP. Non-GAAP measures exclude stock-based compensation expenses, amortization of acquisition-related intangible assets, and the tax effects of these items. A reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to our GAAP results is included in today's press release.

謝謝你，梅格。午安.謝謝大家加入我們。今天與我一起參加電話會議的是 Power Integrations 董事長兼執行長 Balu Balakrishnan；以及我們的財務長桑迪普‧內亞爾 (Sandeep Nayyar)。在本次電話會議中，我們將參考未根據 GAAP 計算的財務指標。非公認會計準則指標不包括股票補償費用、收購相關無形資產的攤銷、這些項目的稅務影響。今天的新聞稿中包含了非公認會計原則措施與我們的公認會計原則結果的調節。

Our discussion today, including the Q&A session, will include forward-looking statements denoted by words like will, would, believe, should, expect, outlook, forecast, anticipate, and similar expressions that look toward future events or performance. Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those projected or implied. Such risks are discussed in today's press release and in our most recent Form 10-K filed with the SEC on February 12, 2024. This call is the property of Power Integrations and any recording or rebroadcast is expressly prohibited without the written consent of Power Integrations.

我們今天的討論，包括問答環節，將包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述用諸如意願、將、相信、應該、期望、展望、預測、預計以及展望未來事件或表現的類似表達方式表示。此類陳述存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與預測或暗示的結果有重大差異。今天的新聞稿以及我們於 2024 年 2 月 12 日向 SEC 提交的最新 10-K 表格中討論了此類風險。此通話屬於 Power Integrations 的財產，未經 Power Integrations 書面同意，明確禁止任何錄音或轉播。

Now, I'll turn it over to Balu.

現在，我將把它交給Balu。

Thanks, Joe, and good afternoon. Our first-quarter results were on target, with revenues of $92 million, non-GAAP gross margin of 53%, and non-GAAP earnings of $0.18 per share. Channel inventories fell by more than 1.5 weeks during the quarter, and the improvement in bookings that began in December has continued through the first quarter and the month of April.

謝謝，喬，下午好。我們第一季的業績達到了目標，收入為 9,200 萬美元，非 GAAP 毛利率為 53%，非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.18 美元。本季通路庫存下降了超過 1.5 週，自 12 月開始的預訂量改善持續到第一季和 4 月。

We expect revenues in the second quarter to be in the range of $105 million, plus or minus $5 million. That would be a seasonal increase of 15% at the midpoint. We also expect a further increase in gross margin, driven by the favorable dollar-yen exchange rate and higher back-end manufacturing volumes.

我們預計第二季的營收將在 1.05 億美元上下浮動約 500 萬美元。這將是中點 15% 的季節性成長。我們也預計，在有利的美元兌日圓匯率和較高的後端製造量的推動下，毛利率將進一步上升。

Most importantly, design momentum has remained strong, especially in key strategic markets like high-power, motor drive, and automotive where big picture trends like energy efficiency, clean energy, and electrification are expanding the opportunity for our products.

最重要的是，設計動能依然強勁，尤其是在大功率、馬達驅動和汽車等關鍵策略市場，能源效率、清潔能源和電氣化等大趨勢正在擴大我們產品的機會。

We also continue to advance along our product and technology roadmaps with two key developments in recent weeks, starting with the introduction of InnoMux-2. InnoMux-2 is emblematic of our system-level approach to high-voltage power conversion, combining leading-edge switch technology, novel control scheme, and proprietary packaging that is not only cost effective and thermally efficient but also implements isolation and feedback through our FluxLink technology.

我們也繼續沿著我們的產品和技術路線圖前進，最近幾週取得了兩項關鍵進展，首先是推出了 InnoMux-2。InnoMux-2 是我們高壓電源轉換系統級方法的象徵，它結合了領先的開關技術、新穎的控制方案和專有封裝，不僅具有成本效益和熱效率，而且還透過我們的 FluxLink 實現隔離和反饋技術。

Most products with embedded AC-to-DC power supplies require multiple DC output voltages for different parts of the system. For example, a refrigerator might require 15 volts for the electronics controlling the compressor motor, 24 volts for the interior lighting, and 5 volts for the user-facing control panel. In a typical architecture, the power supply provides a single DC output, which is then converted into each of the different downstream voltages by low-voltage DC-to-DC converters. The energy losses at each conversion stage are compounded, significantly reducing the overall system efficiency.

大多數具有嵌入式交流轉直流電源的產品都需要為系統的不同部分提供多個直流輸出電壓。例如，冰箱可能需要 15 伏特用於控制壓縮機馬達的電子設備，24 伏特用於內部照明，5 伏特用於面向使用者的控制面板。在典型架構中，電源供應器提供單一直流輸出，然後透過低壓直流-直流轉換器將其轉換為每個不同的下游電壓。每個轉換階段的能量損失都會加劇，進而顯著降低整體系統效率。

InnoMux-2 offers a new architecture, eliminating the need for downstream DC-to-DC stages by providing up to three independently regulated DC outputs. This dramatically reduces component count and complexity and also enhances efficiency by eliminating the compounding of losses across multiple stages. The cherry on the top is that InnoMux-2 features our highly efficient, PowiGaN switch, enabling overall system efficiency of better than 90%.

InnoMux-2 提供了一種新的架構，透過提供多達三個獨立調節的直流輸出，消除了對下游直流到直流級的需求。這大大減少了組件數量和複雜性，並透過消除多個階段的複合損耗來提高效率。最重要的是，InnoMux-2 採用我們的高效 PowiGaN 開關，使整體系統效率超過 90%。

Contrast this with a traditional architecture, which is an AC-to-DC stage followed by a separate DC-to-DC stage. Even if both stages are 90% efficient, the compounded losses result in a total system efficiency of only 81%. In other words, with InnoMux-2, losses would be reduced by nearly half. Because most products with embedded power supplies require multiple DC voltages, the addressable market opportunity for InnoMux-2 is large and diverse.

將此與傳統架構進行對比，傳統架構是一個交流到直流級，後面跟著一個單獨的直流到直流級。即使兩級的效率均為 90%，複合損耗也會導致系統總效率僅 81%。換句話說，使用InnoMux-2，損失將減少近一半。由於大多數具有嵌入式電源的產品需要多個直流電壓，因此 InnoMux-2 的潛在市場機會龐大且多樣化。

We already have a pipeline of design activity across a wide range of applications, including displays, appliances, networking equipment, and more. Our first production design, a desktop monitor at a top-tier PC OEM, is expected to begin ramping in Q3.

我們已經擁有一系列涵蓋廣泛應用的設計活動，包括顯示器、電器、網路設備等。我們的第一個生產設計是頂級 PC OEM 的桌面顯示器，預計將於第三季開始量產。

The other notable development on our roadmap is our agreement to acquire the assets of Odyssey Semiconductor, as announced earlier today. Odyssey is a developer of optical GaN technology, which has higher current capability than lateral GaN devices, and therefore has the potential to address much higher power levels. High current GaN has been on our development roadmap for some time, and we are bringing the Odyssey team on board to augment those efforts. Power Integrations has led the way in development of GaN technology for power conversion, starting with our 750-volt GaN in 2018, and we are advancing our technology along multiple fronts.

正如今天早些時候宣布的那樣，我們路線圖上的另一個值得注意的進展是我們同意收購奧德賽半導體的資產。Odyssey 是光學 GaN 技術的開發商，該技術具有比橫向 GaN 裝置更高的電流能力，因此有潛力解決更高的功率等級。高電流 GaN 已經出現在我們的開發路線圖上一段時間了，我們正在邀請 Odyssey 團隊加入以加強這些努力。Power Integrations 在功率轉換 GaN 技術的開發方面處於領先地位，從 2018 年的 750 伏特 GaN 開始，我們正在多個領域推進我們的技術。

One is cost, as we continue to drive our GaN towards a cost parity with silicon MOSFETs. Another is voltage, with introductions of 900-volt and 1,250-volt GAN technology last year, and an even higher voltage technology coming soon. These higher voltages expand the opportunity for GaN in power supplies, and we are designing system-level products for applications such as data centers, [comm] equipment, and 800-volt EVs.

一是成本，我們將繼續推動 GaN 的成本與矽 MOSFET 持平。另一個是電壓，去年推出了 900 伏特和 1,250 伏特 GAN 技術，更高電壓的技術即將推出。這些更高的電壓擴大了 GaN 在電源領域的機會，我們正在為資料中心、[通訊]設備和 800 伏特電動車等應用設計系統級產品。

The third vector of GaN development is current. Today's lateral GaN is the optimal switch technology for up to about 10 kilowatts, but does not support high enough current to deliver more power. High current technology is the next frontier in GaN development and will enable GaN to deliver hundreds of kilowatts of power. This would dramatically expand the competitive overlap between GaN and silicon carbide, and make GaN a compelling alternative for applications like EV drivetrain inverters.

GaN 發展的第三個方向是目前。如今的橫向 GaN 是功率高達約 10 千瓦的最佳開關技術，但不支援足夠高的電流來提供更多功率。高電流技術是 GaN 開發的下一個前沿領域，將使 GaN 能夠提供數百千瓦的功率。這將極大地擴大 GaN 和碳化矽之間的競爭重疊，並使 GaN 成為電動車傳動系統逆變器等應用的引人注目的替代品。

While there are a number of significant technical challenges to solve before high current GaN becomes a market-ready technology, we are pleased with the progress we have made to date and we are doubling down with the addition of Odyssey Team.

雖然在高電流 GaN 成為市場就緒技術之前還需要解決許多重大技術挑戰，但我們對迄今為止所取得的進展感到滿意，並且隨著 Odyssey 團隊的加入，我們將加倍努力。

With that, I will turn it over to Sandeep for a review of the financials.

這樣，我會將其交給桑迪普（Sandeep）進行財務審查。

Thanks, Balu, and good afternoon. As usual, I will focus my remarks on the non-GAAP results, which are reconciled to GAAP in our press release. First-quarter revenues were $92 million, slightly higher than the midpoint of our guidance, while non-GAAP earnings were $0.18 per diluted share, above the level implied in our guidance, as we came in better on both gross margin and operating expenses.

謝謝巴魯，下午好。像往常一樣，我將重點討論非公認會計原則的結果，這些結果在我們的新聞稿中與公認會計原則進行了調整。第一季營收為9,200 萬美元，略高於我們指引的中點，而非GAAP 攤薄後每股收益為0.18 美元，高於我們指引中暗示的水平，因為我們的毛利率和營運費用都更好。

On a sequential basis, revenue was up 2%, with three of the four end market categories up versus the prior quarter. Consumer revenues increased more than 40%, partly reflecting seasonality in air conditioning, but, more importantly, a much-improved inventory picture at distributors and end customers in the appliance market. Channel inventory associated with the consumer market was slightly below normal entering the quarter and fell even further as the quarter progressed.

環比成長 2%，四個終端市場類別中的三個比上一季有所成長。消費者收入成長超過 40%，部分反映了空調的季節性，但更重要的是，家電市場分銷商和最終客戶的庫存狀況大大改善。進入本季度，與消費市場相關的通路庫存略低於正常水平，並且隨著本季的進展進一步下降。

The computer category was up more than 30% sequentially on new design ramps in notebooks and an uptick in tablets, as a key end customer has largely worked through its excess inventory. The industrial category was up mid-single digits sequentially, as seasonal softness and high power was offset by strengthened metering application and improvement in broad-based industrial.

由於筆記型電腦的新設計和平板電腦的增加，電腦類別連續增長了 30% 以上，因為一個主要終端客戶基本上已經消化了其過剩的庫存。工業類別連續成長中個位數，季節性疲軟和高功率被加強的計量應用和廣泛工業的改善所抵消。

The communication category was down more than 50% sequentially. The decline was partially driven by market dynamics, including share gains by Huawei at the expense of our customers and some of the incremental share gains at Chinese OEMs during the pandemic shortages now reverting back to domestic suppliers. However, the decrease also reflects seasonality and continued inventory work downs and we do expect a healthy recovery over the balance of the year as these transitory factors should be largely behind us.

通訊類別較上季下降超過 50%。這一下降的部分原因是市場動態，包括華為以犧牲客戶利益為代價而獲得的份額增長，以及中國原始設備製造商在大流行短缺期間增加的部分份額增長，現在又回到了國內供應商手中。然而，下降也反映了季節性和持續的庫存工作下降，我們確實預計今年剩餘時間將出現健康復甦，因為這些暫時性因素應該基本上已經過去了。

Revenue mix for the quarter was 41% consumer, 37% industrial, 11% communication, and 11% computer. Distribution inventory ended the quarter at 8.8 weeks, down more than 1.5 weeks from the prior quarter, as sell-through exceeded sell-in by about $10 million.

本季的收入結構為 41% 消費性、37% 工業類、11% 通訊類和 11% 電腦類。本季末的分銷庫存為 8.8 週，比上一季減少了 1.5 週多，銷售量超出了銷售量約 1000 萬美元。

Non-GAAP gross margin for the first quarter was 53%, up 30 basis points from the prior quarter, as a more favorable end market mix was largely offset by the effects of low manufacturing volumes. I expect a further sequential improvement in Q2 as we convert more wafers to finished goods and we recognize a further benefit from the favorable dollar-yen exchange rate which affects the cost of wafers from our Japanese foundry partners. Non-GAAP operating expenses for the quarter were $41.2 million, up sequentially as expected due mainly to seasonal factors such as resumption of FICA taxes.

非公認會計原則第一季的毛利率為 53%，比上一季上升 30 個基點，因為更有利的終端市場組合在很大程度上被低製造量的影響所抵消。我預計第二季將出現進一步的連續改善，因為我們將更多的晶圓轉化為成品，並且我們認識到有利的美元兌日圓匯率將進一步受益，這會影響我們日本代工合作夥伴的晶圓成本。本季非 GAAP 營運費用為 4,120 萬美元，季增符合預期，主要是因為恢復 FICA 稅等季節性因素。

Other income of $3.5 million was up slightly from the prior quarter, reflecting higher returns on our investment portfolio. Non-GAAP earnings for the first quarter was $0.18 per diluted share. Diluted share count for the quarter was 57.1 million, down about 100,000 from the prior quarter, driven by share repurchases. We used $15 million for repurchases during the quarter, buying back 207,000 shares. $11 million remained on our repurchase authorization as of March 31.

其他收入為 350 萬美元，較上一季略有成長，反映出我們的投資組合回報率較高。第一季非 GAAP 攤薄收益為每股 0.18 美元。受股票回購影響，本季稀釋後股票數量為 5,710 萬股，較上一季減少約 10 萬股。本季我們使用了 1500 萬美元進行回購，回購了 207,000 股股票。截至 3 月 31 日，我們的回購授權中仍有 1,100 萬美元。

The other primary uses of cash in the quarter was $11 million for dividends, with an additional $4 million for CapEx. Cash flow from operations for the quarter was $16 million. Inventory days were at 349 at quarter end, up five days from the prior quarter. We expect inventory days to begin declining in Q2, driven by the anticipated upturn in revenues.

本季現金的其他主要用途是 1,100 萬美元用於股息，另外 400 萬美元用於資本支出。本季營運現金流為 1,600 萬美元。季末庫存天數為 349 天，比上季增加 5 天。我們預計，在營收預期上升的推動下，庫存天數將在第二季開始下降。

Turning to Q2 outlook, we expect revenues to be $105 million, plus or minus $5 million, a sequential increase of 15% at the midpoint. Non-GAAP gross margin should be between 53.5% and 54%, up 50 to 100 basis points sequentially. The puts and takes here will be the positive impacts from the favorable yen exchange rate and higher manufacturing utilization, offset by less favorable mix as we anticipate a sequential rebound in the communication category. I expect full-year non-GAAP gross margin to be approximately 54%.

談到第二季的前景，我們預計營收為 1.05 億美元，上下浮動 500 萬美元，環比中位數成長 15%。非 GAAP 毛利率應在 53.5% 至 54% 之間，較上一季成長 50 至 100 個基點。這裡的看跌期權和看跌期權將是有利的日元匯率和較高的製造業利用率的積極影響，但由於我們預計通信類別將連續反彈，因此被不太有利的組合所抵消。我預計全年非 GAAP 毛利率約為 54%。

Non-GAAP operating expenses should be between $44.5 million and $45 million, driven by headcount growth as well as annual merit increases, which took effect early in the quarter. For the full year, I expect non-GAAP OpEx to be up roughly 7% versus the prior year, including the impact of Odyssey, which adds about $1.5 million of expenses in the second half of the year.

受員工數量增長以及本季初生效的年度績效增長的推動，非公認會計準則運營費用應在 4450 萬美元至 4500 萬美元之間。對於全年，我預計非 GAAP 營運支出將比上一年增長約 7%，其中包括奧德賽的影響，該項目在今年下半年增加了約 150 萬美元的費用。

Now, operator, let's begin the Q&A.

現在，接線員，我們開始問答。

(Operator Instructions) Christopher Rolland, Susquehanna International Group.

（操作員說明）克里斯多福羅蘭（Christopher Rolland），薩斯奎哈納國際集團。

Hey, guys, congrats on the results. And just a quick clarification, Sandeep. Did you say 54% for next quarter? And then, Balu or Sandeep, either if you could talk about order trends in Q1, month of March, month of April. What end markets were affected or rebounded the most? And then how that should play into the outlook for next quarter by end market. Thanks.

嘿，夥計們，恭喜你的結果。桑迪普，請快速澄清一下。你說下個季度是54%嗎？然後，Balu 或 Sandeep，您可以談談第一季、三月、四月的訂單趨勢嗎？哪些終端市場受影響或反彈最大？然後這將如何影響終端市場下一季的前景。謝謝。

What I've said is, for the gross margin, it was 53.5% to 54% for Q2. And I also said for the whole year, I expect it to be around 54% (multiple speakers)

我所說的是，第二季的毛利率為53.5%至54%。我還說過全年的話，我預計會在 54% 左右（多個發言者）

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

In terms of bookings, as I mentioned, December was a strong month and that strength continued throughout Q1, except, of course, for a dip in February because of the Lunar New Year, which is expected. And then the strength continued through April so that's very good news. And in Q1, our book-to-bill was more than 1 for the first time in one year. So that's, again, a very good sign.

就預訂量而言，正如我所提到的，12 月是一個強勁的月份，並且這種強勁勢頭在整個第一季度都持續存在，當然，除了預期中的農曆新年導致的2 月份預訂量下降之外。然後這種強勢持續到四月份，所以這是一個非常好的消息。在第一季度，我們的訂單出貨比一年來首次超過 1。所以這又是一個非常好的跡象。

In terms of where we saw the strength, I would say the biggest is consumer, and then also a portion of the industrial also came back. The cellphones was weak, the communications was weak, primarily because there is still inventory correction going on and also Q1 is a seasonally low quarter for us. We do expect the communications to come back strongly in Q2, now that the inventory issues are gone away, and Q2 is also a seasonally stronger quarter for cell phones.

就我們看到的優勢而言，我想說最大的是消費者，然後一部分工業也回來了。手機很弱，通訊很弱，主要是因為庫存調整仍在進行，而且第一季對我們來說是季節性低季。鑑於庫存問題已經消失，我們確實預計通訊業務將在第二季強勁復甦，第二季也是手機季節性強勁的季度。

That is great color. Thank you very much for that. And then I guess I need to know more about this Odyssey. How big do you think this market could be, how much are you investing here, or are there synergies, how are you looking at it? And then just a quick one for Sandeep. Do you still think you lead the market by one quarter in terms of the cyclical recovery? Just curious. Thanks.

那是很棒的顏色。非常感謝你。然後我想我需要更多地了解這個奧德賽。您認為這個市場有多大，您在這裡投資了多少，或者是否存在協同效應，您如何看待它？然後是桑迪普的快速介紹。您仍然認為在周期性復甦方面您領先市場四分之一嗎？只是好奇。謝謝。

Again, let me answer the Odyssey question. As we have mentioned before, we have been working on higher current GaN technology because the current technology goes up to about 10 kilowatts or so. Beyond that, you really need to change the technology significantly to be able to handle much higher current levels. In terms of voltage, we have already been able to achieve up to 1,250 volts and we expect to go even higher with the current technology.

再次回答奧德賽的問題。正如我們之前提到的，我們一直在研究更高電流的 GaN 技術，因為目前的技術可達 10 千瓦左右。除此之外，您確實需要顯著改變技術才能處理更高的電流水平。就電壓而言，我們已經能夠達到 1,250 伏，並且我們預計利用當前技術可以達到更高的電壓。

The reason we acquired the assets of Odyssey is that the Odyssey people have been working at a vertical GaN technology to achieve very high current levels and very high power levels as a result of that. And we believe, with this acquisition of assets, we have multiple benefits. One is it comes with a cleanroom facility for working on the new technology. You can call it a small fab -- or we want to call it flab, a [fab/lab]. Number two, we are taking on all of the key employees who have lot of knowledge in the high current GaN technology.

我們收購 Odyssey 資產的原因是 Odyssey 人員一直致力於垂直 GaN 技術，以實現非常高的電流水平和非常高的功率水平。我們相信，透過這次資產收購，我們可以獲得多重好處。一是它配備了用於研究新技術的無塵室設施。你可以稱它為小型工廠——或者我們想稱其為“flab”[工廠/實驗室]。第二，我們正在招募所有在高電流 GaN 技術方面擁有豐富知識的關鍵員工。

Just to be clear, the technology we are working on is our own technology. It is different from what Odyssey and many others have been working on in terms of vertical GaN. Our technology, we believe, will be very cost effective. That's the most important thing, is [that we're] cost effective, number one. And we still have a lot of work to do, but our goal is to get GaN to much higher power levels like hundreds of kilowatts so that we can be a very compelling alternative to silicon carbide.

需要明確的是，我們正在研究的技術是我們自己的技術。這與 Odyssey 和許多其他公司在垂直 GaN 的研究不同。我們相信，我們的技術將非常具有成本效益。最重要的是，我們的成本效益是第一位的。我們還有很多工作要做，但我們的目標是讓 GaN 達到更高的功率水平，例如數百千瓦，這樣我們就可以成為碳化矽的非常引人注目的替代品。

Silicon carbide is fundamentally more expensive, whereas, GaN, there is no fundamental reason why it can't be less expensive than silicon carbide. So that's the reason we are pushing the power levels, and this acquisition of Odyssey assets will speed up that process.

碳化矽本質上比較昂貴，而氮化鎵則沒有根本原因不能比碳化矽便宜。這就是我們提高功率水準的原因，而奧德賽資產的收購將加快這一進程。

Other question, yes, we typically do see earlier than others because our product goes into power supply. But having said that, I think the way to look at it is we've been talking about we would keep seeing growth in our revenues sequentially, even though visibility is lower for the second half. But we still believe that we will grow sequentially each quarter through the year.

其他問題，是的，我們通常比其他人更早看到，因為我們的產品進入電源。但話雖如此，我認為看待這個問題的方式是我們一直在談論我們的收入將繼續增長，儘管下半年的可見度較低。但我們仍然相信，我們將在全年每季實現連續成長。

You're seeing a real comeback in appliances, which you saw a nice big growth. Our industrial segment, we are expecting for that to come back more in the third and fourth quarter. And even communication which had a pretty low quarter should start coming back in the following quarter. And we're doing very well in the computer segment with the design wins.

你會看到家電真正捲土重來，並看到了巨大的成長。我們的工業部門預計第三季和第四季會出現更多回升。即使是季度表現較低的通訊也應該會在下個季度開始恢復。我們在電腦領域做得非常好，並取得了設計勝利。

Excellent. Thank you so much.

出色的。太感謝了。

David Williams, [Benchmark] Company.

大衛威廉斯，[基準] 公司。

First, just congrats on the improving backdrop here and the Odyssey [semi] acquisition. And I guess if you think about what Odyssey brings, clearly that's a different process than what you all are working on.

首先，恭喜這裡的背景有所改善以及 Odyssey [semi] 收購。我想如果你想想奧德賽帶來了什麼，顯然這與你們正在做的事情是不同的過程。

Can you talk maybe a little bit about how you think this will integrate, just kind of given the differences between the vertical GaN that they're working on relative to your process? Just trying to understand how you're going to incorporate that. And is there two different roadmaps and progress points or do those come together over time?

考慮到他們正在研究的垂直 GaN 與您的工藝之間的差異，您能否稍微談談您認為這將如何整合？只是想了解您將如何整合它。是否有兩個不同的路線圖和進度點，或者隨著時間的推移，這些路線圖和進度點會合併在一起嗎？

Thanks, David. So the best way I can explain it is that there are a number of companies working on vertical GaN technology. They've been working on it for some time now. There's another company called NexGen, which just closed down. There a lot of challenges with the type of technology they were working on.

謝謝，大衛。因此，我能解釋的最好方法是，有許多公司正在研究垂直 GaN 技術。他們已經為此努力了一段時間。還有另一家名為 NexGen 的公司，剛剛倒閉。他們正在研究的技術類型面臨許多挑戰。

We think we have a very different way to achieve the same result. And where we can get the help from Odyssey is their knowledge of GaN in the vertical GaN devices. They have number of patents that is part of the assets we are purchasing. They have a cleanroom, which is also very useful for us to try our new technologies.

我們認為我們有一個非常不同的方法來達到相同的結果。我們可以從 Odyssey 獲得幫助的是他們對垂直 GaN 裝置中 GaN 的了解。他們擁有大量專利，這些專利是我們正在購買的資產的一部分。他們有一個無塵室，這對於我們嘗試我們的新技術也非常有用。

So those are the reasons. If we didn't do that -- we could have done it on our own but it'll have taken more time. And this really helps us reduce the time to market of this technology by somewhere in the one- to two-year range. And so it speeds up our process because of the knowledge they bring, because of the patents, because of the cleanroom.

這就是原因。如果我們不這樣做——我們本來可以自己完成，但會花費更多時間。這確實有助於我們將該技術的上市時間縮短一到兩年。因此，由於他們帶來的知識、專利、無塵室，它加快了我們的流程。

Very good. Thanks. I appreciate the color. That was very helpful. And then we didn't talk much about automotive this quarter whilst you have in the past. Just wondering if you could give us an update there how those design wins are tracking? And maybe if there's been any positive or developments during the quarter. Thank you.

非常好。謝謝。我很欣賞它的顏色。這非常有幫助。本季我們並沒有過多談論汽車產業，而你們過去卻談論過。只是想知道您能否向我們提供有關這些設計勝利的最新進展？也許本季度有任何積極的進展或進展。謝謝。

Good question. And the only reason we didn't talk about it is we have talked about it in the past and we have a lot of other things to talk about today. But really, automotive is doing exceedingly well. We already have a dozen cars in production today, we will have another dozen introduced this year, and another dozen next year. And we really expect this to grow nicely. The inflection point is probably a couple of years away before we see a strong growth in terms of dollar revenue.

好問題。我們沒有談論它的唯一原因是我們過去已經談論過它，而且今天我們還有很多其他事情要談論。但實際上，汽車產業的表現非常好。今天我們已經生產了十幾輛汽車，今年我們將推出另外十幾輛汽車，明年還將推出另外十幾輛汽車。我們真的希望它能夠很好地成長。在我們看到美元收入強勁成長之前，拐點可能還需要幾年的時間。

And our expectation is by 2028, this could be something in the order of $100 million in revenue. So it's doing really well overall. The product is incredibly compelling to customers. The one example I can give you is a Japanese Tier 1 customer, who just recently qualified us. They did the audit of our system's quality management systems, and they are qualified -- we passed their audit with flying colors. So that shows that we can address the Japanese market, which is one of the hardest markets to address in terms of automotive So that's also a great sign for us.

我們預計到 2028 年，收入可能達到 1 億美元左右。所以整體來說它的表現非常好。該產品對客戶來說非常有吸引力。我可以給您舉的一個例子是一位日本一級客戶，他最近剛剛對我們進行了資格認證。他們對我們系統的品質管理系統進行了審核，他們是合格的——我們出色地通過了他們的審核。這表明我們可以進軍日本市場，這是汽車領域最難進軍的市場之一，這對我們來說也是一個很好的跡象。

Matt Ramsay, TD Cowen.

馬特·拉姆齊，TD·考恩。

Thank you very much. Good afternoon, guys. I love the dramatic pauses ahead of questions. That really sets it up. One of the questions I had, Balu, if you don't mind going into a little bit more detail on the InnoMux product and specifically what end markets you think are the most attractive there. It seems like an architecture that might be suited for the data center market. And I wonder if you've gotten a toehold there or how those conversations are going if in fact they're happening in the data center power space. Thanks.

非常感謝。下午好，夥計們。我喜歡提問前戲劇性的停頓。這確實設置了它。我的問題之一是，Balu，您是否介意更詳細地了解 InnoMux 產品，特別是您認為那裡最有吸引力的終端市場。這似乎是一種適合資料中心市場的架構。我想知道您是否已經在那裡站穩了腳跟，或者這些對話實際上是在資料中心電力領域發生的，進展如何。謝謝。

Thanks, Matt. The first product we introduced, which is the InnoMux-1, I guess, was really directed towards displays. Displays is really the only market it was designed to address. InnoMux-2 is much broader. It can address any embedded power supply that has more than one output requirement at the system level. So that includes appliances, that includes industrial applications, that includes servers, as you said, data center servers, server power supplies. Typically, inside a server, you need multiple output voltages. You need 12 volts for the fans and you need 5 volts and 3.3 volts. So it's a perfect match for that as an auxiliary power supply.

謝謝，馬特。我想，我們推出的第一個產品是 InnoMux-1，它確實是針對顯示器的。顯示器實際上是它旨在解決的唯一市場。InnoMux-2 的範圍要廣泛得多。它可以滿足在系統級具有多個輸出要求的任何嵌入式電源的需求。因此，這包括設備，包括工業應用，包括伺服器，正如您所說的，資料中心伺服器、伺服器電源。通常，在伺服器內部，您需要多個輸出電壓。風扇需要 12 伏，還需要 5 伏特和 3.3 伏特。因此，它非常適合用作輔助電源。

So in terms of design wins, what we are seeing is a lot of activity across all of those markets. The first design win that we received is a major OEM that has a display efficiency requirement that we can very easily meet with InnoMux-2, and that will go into production next quarter. That particular customer is already using InnoMux-1, but InnoMux-2 will be a much broader application across a broader number of models. So we are looking forward to that.

因此，就設計獲勝而言，我們看到所有這些市場都進行了大量活動。我們獲得的第一個設計勝利是一家主要 OEM 的顯示效率要求，我們可以使用 InnoMux-2 輕鬆滿足該要求，並將於下季度投入生產。該特定客戶已經在使用 InnoMux-1，但 InnoMux-2 將成為涵蓋更多型號的更廣泛應用。所以我們對此充滿期待。

But we are also working with the TVs. It's a good match for TVs. And then appliances, we have a number of designs going on in appliances, and several industrial applications will also use that. As far as data centers go, we are just beginning to sample customers and we'll keep you updated on that. This is for what they call the standby and auxiliary power supply, is in the 50 to 70 watt range, and that will require multiple outputs.

但我們也在與電視合作。它非常適合電視。然後是電器，我們在電器方面正在進行許多設計，一些工業應用也將使用它。就資料中心而言，我們剛開始對客戶進行抽樣，我們將隨時向您通報最新情況。這用於他們所謂的備用和輔助電源，功率範圍為 50 至 70 瓦，並且需要多個輸出。

Now I think the question you had is on the main power supply. Now that is evolving as we speak. For artificial intelligence, they need to dramatically improve the power level. Right now, most of the solar power supplies are in that 2.5 to 3 kilowatt range. But now for AI racks, they need a 5-kilowatt power supply in the same form factor, which makes it really challenging especially with our Wide Bandgap solutions.

現在我認為您的問題是關於主電源的。現在，正如我們所說，這種情況正在演變。對於人工智慧來說，他們需要大幅提高功率等級。目前，大多數太陽能電源都在 2.5 至 3 千瓦範圍內。但現在對於 AI 機架來說，它們需要相同外形尺寸的 5 千瓦電源，這使得它確實具有挑戰性，尤其是對於我們的寬頻隙解決方案。

So there, I think our GaN will play an important role, but that's still being defined as we speak. We will work with multiple customer OEMs and ODMs to understand the requirements. And we are working, as you know, on products for that, and those products are not quite ready yet; that'll take a couple of years. But in the meanwhile, we can get into the auxiliary power supply, which also has to be extremely efficient. So our GaN technology with our zero voltage switching capability will be very attractive for that application with the InnoMux-2 device.

因此，我認為我們的 GaN 將發揮重要作用，但就我們而言，這一點仍在定義中。我們將與多個客戶 OEM 和 ODM 合作以了解需求。如您所知，我們正在為此開發產品，但這些產品還沒有完全準備好；這需要幾年的時間。但同時，我們可以使用輔助電源，它也必須非常有效率。因此，我們具有零電壓開關能力的 GaN 技術對於 InnoMux-2 裝置的應用非常有吸引力。

Thank you, Balu. I appreciate all the color. That was really helpful. I guess as my next question, Sandeep, a couple of things. One, you talked a little bit about, in your script, how you are seeing channel inventory levels and order patterns. Wonder if you might comment a bit about customer level inventories to the extent that you have visibility. Has that visibility improved any as you work through some of the challenges in the channel with the customer base?

謝謝你，巴魯。我欣賞所有的顏色。這真的很有幫助。桑迪普，我想我的下一個問題有幾件事。第一，您在腳本中談到如何看待通路庫存水準和訂單模式。想知道您是否可以對客戶級庫存進行一些評論，以達到您的可見性。當您與客戶群一起解決渠道中的一些挑戰時，這種可見度是否有所提高？

And I guess the second question, totally unrelated, on gross margin. You said 54% for the year. I guess if you could help with the puts and takes there and what kind of assumptions you have on the yen and that 54% number, that would be helpful. Thank you.

我想第二個問題與毛利率完全無關。你說今年是54%。我想如果你能幫助了解看跌期權和看跌期權以及你對日元和 54% 的數字有什麼樣的假設，那將會很有幫助。謝謝。

Yeah, I think definitely, especially in the consumer segment, you've seen not only the channel but even customer inventory. As you remember in the past, we talked about our major customers in Korea we hadn't taken for a long time and we are starting to see orders there. So clearly, you're seeing a movement. And the channel inventory in consumer is well below our, what I call, normal average, but industrial is still a bit higher. So that we know will work out. But I think, definitely, if you really look at it, it's playing out as we expected.

是的，我認為當然，特別是在消費領域，你不僅看到了管道，甚至看到了客戶庫存。正如您過去所記得的那樣，我們談到了我們在韓國的主要客戶，我們已經很久沒有接洽了，我們開始在那裡看到訂單。很明顯，你看到了一個運動。消費通路庫存遠低於我們所謂的正常平均水平，但工業庫存仍然略高。這樣我們就知道會成功。但我認為，如果你認真觀察的話，肯定會發現它正在按照我們的預期進行。

As far as the gross margin, it's basically, as you will see, you're going to see the yen is going to be favorable, the volume increase for the back-end utilization is better as we go. Obviously, the mix will go a bit unfavorable as the quarter progress, as year progresses, as communication starts coming back. But if you want to look at the whole year, it is really everything mixed, yen and basically the utilization. But the input costs as the headwind and even for next year, I think that's going to be the case where yen continues.

就毛利率而言，基本上，正如您將看到的，您將看到日圓將變得有利，後端利用率的銷售成長會隨著我們的進展而更好。顯然，隨著季度的進展，隨著年度的進展，隨著溝通開始恢復，這種組合會變得有點不利。但如果你想看看全年，一切都好壞參半，日元和基本上是利用率。但投入成本是不利因素，即使明年，我認為日圓也會繼續走強。

Now in Q1, the yen was actually a little bit down. The reason being, if you remember last year, the yen had moved down to about 130 level for a period of time, and it takes a while for it to flow in the P&L. But as you can see, the yen has strengthened and -- I mean, the dollar has strengthened, and, as a result, with the inventory accounting, I think that benefit will even flow quite a bit into next year. So I feel that, even for next year, we will stay at a higher level even though input costs maybe are a headwind, but we'll remain, if you look in our model, on the higher end of our model.

現在在第一季度，日圓實際上有點下跌。原因是，如果你還記得去年的話，日圓曾經一度跌至130左右的水平，需要一段時間才能流入損益表。但正如你所看到的，日元已經走強，而且——我的意思是，美元已經走強，因此，通過庫存核算，我認為這種好處甚至會在明年大量流入。因此，我認為，即使是明年，我們也將保持在更高的水平，儘管投入成本可能是阻力，但如果你看看我們的模型，我們將保持在模型的高端。

Tore Svanberg, Stifel.

托雷‧思文凱 (Tore Svanberg)、史蒂菲爾 (Stifel)。

Yes, good afternoon. This is Jeremy calling for Tore. Just two things here. Maybe if we could just circle back on the InnoMux-2. It looks like a really fantastic product here. I was wondering, in terms of the DC-to-DC power conversion, it seems like you've had to develop some expertise there. Are there other areas where you want to take this where it's maybe more standalone DC-to-DC conversion products? Or is the AC-to-DC plus DC-to-DC market big enough near term to take up all your resources at this point?

是的，下午好。這是傑里米打電話給托雷。這裡只有兩件事。也許我們可以回到 InnoMux-2。它看起來真是一個非常棒的產品。我想知道，在直流到直流電源轉換方面，您似乎必須在那裡發展一些專業知識。您是否還想在其他領域使用更獨立的直流電到直流轉換產品？或者交流到直流加直流到直流市場近期是否足夠大，足以佔用您目前的所有資源？

Thanks, Jeremy. Just to clarify, we don't actually implement DC-to-DC converters. What we have done with InnoMux-2 is that with a single power supply and single magnetics for a single transformer, we are able to deliver multiple output voltages, or current for that matter, that are individually regulated, meaning that they can be independently controlled and regulated.

謝謝，傑里米。澄清一下，我們實際上並沒有實作直流到直流轉換器。我們對 InnoMux-2 所做的事情是，透過單個變壓器的單一電源和單個磁性元件，我們能夠提供多個輸出電壓或電流，這些電壓或電流是單獨調節的，這意味著它們可以被獨立控制並受到監管。

For example, one output could be an LED driver, where the voltage can vary with the intensity of LED and so on, but the rest of the outputs will not be impacted by that. And that's a unique topology we have developed. We have a number of patents on that. So it actually eliminates the DC-to-DC converter. So we don't build [DC-to-DC converter]; we just eliminate them because you don't need them anymore. So we are still focused on high voltage. It's still a single-stage high-voltage power supply.

例如，一個輸出可能是 LED 驅動器，其中電壓可能隨 LED 的強度等變化，但其餘輸出不會受其影響。這是我們開發的獨特拓樸。我們在這方面擁有多項專利。因此它實際上消除了 DC-DC 轉換器。所以我們不建構[DC-to-DC轉換器]；我們只是消除它們，因為您不再需要它們。所以我們還是把重點放在高壓上。它仍然是單級高壓電源。

So this uses a flyback topology, which is useful up to several hundred watts. So anything that falls within that power range, that requires more than one output voltage is a good market for that. So basically, that's everything other than adapters. Adapters typically only have one output voltage, but literally everything else that's inside the product, whether it's a TV, monitor, appliance, or any industrial application, requires more than one output voltage. And that's where InnoMux-2 becomes very attractive.

因此，這使用了反激式拓撲，其有用功率高達數百瓦。因此，任何落在該功率範圍內、需要多個輸出電壓的產品都是一個很好的市場。基本上，這就是除了適配器之外的所有東西。適配器通常只有一種輸出電壓，但實際上產品內部的所有其他產品，無論是電視、顯示器、電器或任何工業應用，都需要多個輸出電壓。這就是 InnoMux-2 非常有吸引力的地方。

It is actually quite an amazing invention, I think. When we tell people this, they are quite surprised. And is made possible by two things. One is a very unique control scheme. Number two, our FluxLink technology. Without FluxLink, you cannot implement this because it requires very precise control of how much energy is delivered to each output through the same transformer. There's just one transformer.

我認為這實際上是一項非常了不起的發明。當我們告訴人們這一點時，他們感到非常驚訝。有兩件事使之成為可能。一是非常獨特的控制方案。第二，我們的 FluxLink 技術。如果沒有 FluxLink，您就無法實現這一點，因為它需要非常精確地控制透過同一變壓器向每個輸出傳送多少能量。只有一台變壓器。

Got it. Thank you. That's very helpful for the clarification there. And I guess maybe switching gears again back to Odyssey, was there -- I guess a couple of questions within here. First is in terms of the technology. Is this something where you're -- it sounds like you're integrating their vertical GaN into what you're already developing internally. Or do you see like a slight bifurcation within the supply of GaN where there's one focus on low cost, there's a different technology focus on this very high power, and you need both technologies in order to address the full range of GaN applications?

知道了。謝謝。這對於澄清那裡非常有幫助。我想也許會再次切換回奧德賽，在那裡——我想這裡有幾個問題。首先是在技術方面。這就是您所在的地方嗎？或者您認為 GaN 的供應存在輕微的分歧，其中一種側重於低成本，另一種技術側重於這種非常高的功率，並且您需要這兩種技術來解決全方位的 GaN 應用？

Okay, good question. I have to be careful how far I want to go with this. We normally don't discuss our R&D efforts. Let me see how I can answer this question. First, let me make one thing very clear. What Odyssey was doing, what NexGen was doing, and others are doing are very different from what we are doing. The reason to acquire Odyssey is to get the expertise, not their technology, but the expertise.

好吧，好問題。我必須小心我想走多遠。我們通常不會討論我們的研發工作。讓我看看如何回答這個問題。首先，讓我明確一件事。Odyssey 所做的事情、NexGen 所做的事情以及其他人所做的事情與我們正在做的事情非常不同。收購奧德賽的原因是為了獲得專業知識，不是他們的技術，而是專業知識。

Now, there are many aspects to our development. There are two or three challenges to overcome, and we believe that the team at Odyssey can help us with that because they just have fundamental background in GaN, especially vertical GaN. So we think they can help us accelerate our efforts. And beyond that, I'm not comfortable giving a lot of information because it's very competitive information. And I think for competitive reasons, we would like not to discuss that too much in detail.

現在，我們的發展有很多面向。有兩三個挑戰需要克服，我們相信 Odyssey 團隊可以幫助我們解決這個問題，因為他們在 GaN，尤其是垂直 GaN 方面擁有基礎背景。因此，我們認為它們可以幫助我們加快努力。除此之外，我不願意提供大量信息，因為這是非常有競爭力的信息。我認為出於競爭原因，我們不想過多討論這一點。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

All right. Well, it seems that we have no further questions. So thanks, everyone, for listening. There will be a replay of this call available on our website which is investors.power.com. Thanks again and good afternoon.

好的。好吧，看來我們沒有其他問題了。謝謝大家的聆聽。我們的網站 Investors.power.com 上將提供本次電話會議的重播。再次感謝，下午好。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。