Power Integrations Inc (POWI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Power Integrations Q4 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) This call is being recorded on Thursday, February 6, 2025.

女士們、先生們，下午好，歡迎參加 Power Integrations 第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）此通話於 2025 年 2 月 6 日星期四錄音。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Joe Shiffler, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給投資者關係總監喬·希夫勒 (Joe Shiffler)。請繼續。

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, thanks for joining us. With me on the call today are Balu Balakrishnan, Chairman and CEO of Power Integrations and Sandeep Nayyar, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝。大家下午好，感謝大家的參與。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有 Power Integrations 董事長兼執行長 Balu Balakrishnan 和我們的財務長 Sandeep Nayyar。

During this call, we will refer to financial measures not calculated according to GAAP. Non-GAAP measures exclude stock-based compensation expenses, amortization of acquisition-related intangible assets, and the tax effects of these items. A reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to our GAAP results is included in today's press release.

在本次電話會議中，我們將參考未依照 GAAP 計算的財務指標。非公認會計準則指標不包括股票薪酬費用、收購相關無形資產攤銷、這些項目的稅務影響。今天的新聞稿中包含了非 GAAP 指標與我們的 GAAP 結果的對帳表。

Our discussion today including the Q&A session will include forward-looking statements denoted by words like will, would, believe, should, expect, outlook, forecast, estimate, anticipate, and similar expressions that look toward future events or performance.

我們今天的討論（包括問答環節）將包括前瞻性陳述，以諸如將、會、相信、應該、預期、展望、預測、估計、預期等詞語和類似的表達方式來表示，這些詞語和表達方式著眼於未來事件或表現。

Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those projected or implied. Such risks are discussed in today's press release and in our most recent Form 10-K filed with the SEC on February 12, 2024.

此類聲明受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與預測或暗示的結果有重大差異。今天的新聞稿和我們於 2024 年 2 月 12 日向美國證券交易委員會提交的最新 10-K 表中討論了此類風險。

This call is the property of Power Integrations and any recording or rebroadcast is expressly prohibited without the written consent of Power Integrations. Now, I'll turn it over to Balu.

本次通話屬於 Power Integrations 所有，未經 Power Integrations 書面同意，嚴禁進行任何錄音或轉播。現在我將把發言權交給巴魯。

Thank you, Joe. And good afternoon. We will discuss our fourth quarter results in a moment but I'll begin with two other pieces of news that we are announcing today. The first is that I have informed our Board of Directors that I intend to retire from my role as CEO.

謝謝你，喬。午安.我們稍後將討論第四季度的業績，但我將首先討論我們今天宣布的另外兩則新聞。首先，我已經告知董事會，我打算辭去執行長一職。

The Board has engaged an executive search firm to help identify our next CEO and will consider both internal and external candidates. I will remain a CEO until the search is concluded and the successor is in place.

董事會已聘請了一家高管搜尋公司來幫助我們尋找下一任首席執行官，並將考慮內部和外部候選人。我將繼續擔任首席執行官，直到搜尋工作結束並找到繼任者為止。

I've been CEO for 23 years and I will turn 71 later this year. And while I have not lost an ounce of my passion for this company or my excitement for the opportunities ahead of us, I believe now is the time for me to step back from the day-to-day responsibilities of a CEO and take on a reduced role, supporting a new leader.

我擔任執行長已經 23 年了，今年稍後我將年滿 71 歲。儘管我對這家公司的熱情和對未來機會的興奮絲毫未減，但我相信現在是時候從執行長的日常職責中抽身，承擔一些較少的職責，支持新的領導者了。

That role will include serving as Executive Chairman of the Board for as long as needed to help my successor settle into the job. Once the transition period is passed, I expect to remain on the Board with the consent of the Board and our stockholders, of course.

這個職責包括擔任董事會執行主席，只要需要，就可以幫助我的繼任者適應這份工作。過渡期結束後，我當然希望在董事會和股東的同意下繼續留在董事會。

The second piece of news we are announcing today is that Gregg Lowe will join our Board on February 15. Until last year, Gregg was CEO of Wolfspeed and previously served as CEO of Freescale Semiconductor through the time of its merger with NXP in 2015. He also spent 27 years at TI culminating in the role of Senior VP running that company's analog business.

我們今天宣布的第二條消息是 Gregg Lowe 將於 2 月 15 日加入我們的董事會。直到去年，格雷格還擔任 Wolfspeed 的首席執行官，此前還曾擔任飛思卡爾半導體公司的首席執行官，直至 2015 年該公司與 NXP 合併。他還在德州儀器 (TI) 工作了 27 年，最終擔任該公司模擬業務的高級副總裁。

Greg's experience in analog and power semiconductors makes him an ideal fit, especially extensive knowledge of the sales and distribution landscape and deep customer relationships in key end markets including automotive and industrial. His long history in the industry also means he can make a significant contribution to our CEO search. We are delighted to welcome him to the Board.

Greg 在類比和功率半導體領域的經驗成為理想人選，尤其是他對銷售和分銷領域的廣泛了解以及在汽車和工業等主要終端市場的深厚客戶關係。他在該行業的長期從業經歷也意味著他可以為我們的 CEO 搜尋做出重大貢獻。我們非常高興歡迎他加入董事會。

Now turning to the results, revenues were in line with our guidance up 18% year over year to $105 million. Revenues for the full year were $419 million, while that was down 6% from the prior year, the underlying details demonstrate why we are excited about the year ahead.

現在來看看業績，營收符合我們的預期，年增 18%，達到 1.05 億美元。全年收入為 4.19 億美元，雖然比前一年下降了 6%，但這些細節表明了我們為什麼對來年感到興奮。

The decline was driven primarily by the Communications category, I should say entirely by the Communications category, which fell more than 60% following our exit of the China OEM Cell Phone business at the start of the last year. The rest of the business grew 17% with Consumer up more than 35%, Computer more than 10%, and Industrial up about 3%.

下滑的主要原因是通訊類別，我應該說完全是通訊類別，自從去年年初我們退出中國 OEM 手機業務以來，該類別的營收下滑了 60% 以上。其餘業務成長了 17%，其中消費品成長了 35% 以上，電腦業務成長了 10% 以上，工業業務成長了約 3%。

Looking ahead to 2025, the cell phone headwind is behind us and in fact, we expect our Communications category to grow driven by the 5G Fixed Wireless rollout in India and increasing dollar content in our remaining cell phone business.

展望 2025 年，手機產業的逆風已經過去，事實上，我們預計，在印度 5G 固定無線部署和剩餘手機業務美元價值增加的推動下，我們的通訊類別將實現成長。

We also began the year with channel inventories down more than two weeks from the prior year end. Most importantly, we expect incremental revenue this year from an array of markets and products and I will touch on several of those in a moment.

今年年初，我們的通路庫存比去年年底減少了兩週多。最重要的是，我們預計今年將從一系列市場和產品中獲得增量收入，稍後我將談到其中的幾個。

Our Q1 revenue guidance is for flat sequential revenues at the midpoint of the range which equates to a year-over-year increase of 15%. While forecasting beyond the current quarter is difficult in light of uncertainty around the trade policy and end market demand, we expect to sustain a healthy rate of revenue growth over the course of the year.

我們對第一季營收的預期是，營收與上一季持平，處於區間中點，相當於年增 15%。儘管由於貿易政策和終端市場需求的不確定性，很難對本季以後的情況進行預測，但我們預計全年收入將保持健康的成長速度。

Growth should accelerate this year in the Industrial category driven partly by lower channel inventories compared to a year ago but also by design ramps in high-voltage DC transmission, renewables, and traction in our high-power business as well as metering, home and building automation, and automotive.

今年工業類別的成長應該會加速，部分原因是通路庫存與一年前相比有所下降，但也受到高壓直流輸電、可再生能源和大功率業務牽引以及計量、家庭和樓宇自動化以及汽車等設計增長的推動。

In the Consumer category, the rate of growth will moderate after last year's strong recovery, especially with soft housing markets still holding back demand for major appliances. However, we expect growth in air conditioning this year based on share gains and a solid demand outlook from our customers. We also expect new revenues from the TV market after recent GaN designments which I will discuss in a moment.

在消費品類別中，在去年強勁復甦之後，成長率將會放緩，尤其是疲軟的房地產市場仍然抑制著對主要家電的需求。然而，基於市場份額的成長和客戶強勁的需求前景，我們預計今年空調將實現成長。我們也預計，在最近的 GaN 設計推出後，電視市場將會帶來新的收入，稍後我將對此進行討論。

Potential growth drivers in the computer category this year include notebooks and tablets, auxiliary power supplies for AI servers, and also monitors where our [innermost till isis] are in production with a major PC OEM.

今年電腦類別的潛在成長動力包括筆記型電腦和平板電腦、AI 伺服器的輔助電源，以及我們的 [innermost till isis] 與主要 PC OEM 合作生產的顯示器。

Underpinning our growth across four end market categories are two common themes: one is our success in India where we have expanded our presence in recent years. A priority of India -- India's government is to design and build domestically more of the products purchased by its growing middle class.

我們在四個終端市場類別的成長背後有兩個共同的主題：一是我們在印度的成功，近年來我們不斷擴大在印度的業務。印度的首要任務—印度政府將在國內設計和生產更多滿足其日益壯大的中產階級需求的產品。

The country is also modernizing its infrastructure with electric transportation, residential, broadband, renewable energy, and a more robust power grid including the planned installation of 250 million smart utility meters. We are winning in each of these areas, supplying gate drivers to one of India's largest suppliers of traction systems for electric locomotives and winning a substantial share of the metering and fixed wireless rollouts.

該國還在透過電力交通、住宅、寬頻、再生能源和更強大的電網對其基礎設施進行現代化改造，包括計劃安裝 2.5 億個智慧電錶。我們在每個領域都取得了成功，為印度最大的電力機車牽引系統供應商之一提供門驅動器，並贏得了計量和固定無線推廣的很大份額。

The second key theme for this year is GaN. Last year, we talked a lot about progress in our technology roadmap including the launch of 700-volt technology. We believe 2025 will bring an inflection point in terms of adoption and growth.

今年的第二個關鍵主題是GaN。去年，我們討論了許多有關技術路線圖的進展，包括推出 700 伏特技術。我們相信 2025 年將會在採用和成長方面帶來一個轉折點。

We expect revenues from GaN-based products to grow at a high rate this year and to comfortably exceed 10% of our sales. In Q4, we won a follow-on design at our Indian 5G Fixed Wireless customer which is upgrading to, again, after ramping last year with the silicon-base InnoSwitch.

我們預計今年基於 GaN 產品的收入將高速成長，並輕鬆超過我們銷售額的 10%。在第四季度，我們贏得了印度 5G 固定無線客戶的後續設計，該客戶繼去年採用矽基 InnoSwitch 後再次進行升級。

Metering customers in India are also now moving up to 900 volts and 1,250 volt GaN products to gain extra safety margin against India's fluctuating grid voltages. We also recently received our first purchase orders for GaN-based InnoMux-2 ICs at one of the world's largest TV manufacturers. We have one power supply sockets in three models, largest being 65-inch screen which will not only use InnoMux-2 but also our GaN-based HiperPFS Power Factor correction chip.

印度的計量客戶現在也正在轉向使用 900 伏特和 1,250 伏特 GaN 產品，以獲得針對印度波動的電網電壓的額外安全裕度。我們最近也從全球最大的電視製造商之一收到了首批基於 GaN 的 InnoMux-2 IC 的採購訂單。我們有三種型號的一個電源插座，最大的是 65 吋的螢幕，它不僅將使用 InnoMux-2，還將使用我們基於 GaN 的 HiperPFS 功率因數校正晶片。

Along with accelerating customer adoption, our leadership in GaN technology and products is also being recognized by industry experts. Our 1,700 volt InnoMux-2 ICs received a 2024 product of the year award from a leading UK technical journal and a Power Best Award from Electronic Design magazine.

隨著客戶採用的加速，我們在 GaN 技術和產品方面的領導地位也得到了行業專家的認可。我們的 1,700 伏特 InnoMux-2 IC 獲得了英國領先技術期刊頒發的 2024 年度產品獎和《電子設計》雜誌頒發的最佳電源獎。

InnoSwitch3 with 250-volt GaN won an engineering achievement award from Design World, Best Power Management Product from AspenCore in China, and two Industry Excellence Awards from 21 Daya Yoon also in China.

採用250伏GaN的InnoSwitch3獲得了Design World頒發的工程成就獎、中國AspenCore頒發的最佳電源管理產品獎，以及中國21 Daya Yoon頒發的兩項行業卓越獎。

While 2025 is shaping up as an exciting year for GaN, we are still in the early -- we are still very early in the GaN Revolution with huge opportunities still ahead in the short, medium, and long term. Short term, GaN has just begun to penetrate the power supply market and adoption is accelerating across a wide range of low power AC-DC the applications including the ones we talked about today and many more.

雖然 2025 年對 GaN 來說將是令人興奮的一年，但我們仍處於早期階段——GaN 革命仍處於非常早期的階段，短期、中期和長期仍有巨大的機會。短期內，GaN 才剛開始進入電源市場，並且在包括我們今天討論的應用在內的各種低功耗 AC-DC 應用中正在加速應用。

In the medium term, the opportunity for GaN at high power levels is massive, nowhere more so than in AI data centers. While data center operators are eager for innovative power solutions for AI, adoption of GaN has been inhibited by the challenges of using discrete GaN in high reliability systems.

從中期來看，GaN在高功率水準上的應用機會龐大，尤其是在人工智慧資料中心。雖然資料中心營運商渴望為人工智慧提供創新的電源解決方案，但在高可靠性系統中使用分立 GaN 的挑戰阻礙了 GaN 的採用。

We are tackling that problem with our system-level approach to product design and expect to have our first product for a server power supplies next year. We estimate the sum for this product alone to be more than $0.5 billion dollars in 2027 with additional products to follow that will take our data centers to well over $1 billion.

我們正在採用系統級產品設計方法解決這個問題，預計明年將推出第一款伺服器電源產品。我們估計，到 2027 年，光是該產品的銷售額就將超過 5 億美元，再加上隨後推出的其他產品，我們的資料中心的銷售額將遠遠超過 10 億美元。

Longer term, we believe GaN can achieve power levels sufficient for EV [drive trains] at much lower cost than silicon carbide. We are pleased with the progress we are making on high-power GaN aided by our acquisition of Odyssey Semiconductor last summer. And we continue to believe that a market-ready high power GaN technology is attainable within the next three to five years.

從長遠來看，我們相信 GaN 可以以比碳化矽低得多的成本實現足以滿足電動車（傳動系統）需求的功率等級。我們很高興看到，由於去年夏天收購 Odyssey Semiconductor，我們在高功率 GaN 方面取得了進展。我們始終相信，未來三到五年內，就能實現適合市場的高功率 GaN 技術。

I'll conclude with an update on our automotive efforts which are progressing nicely. EV power architectures are not only evolving in ways that benefit power integrations but in some cases are being shaped by our expertise in high voltage systems and the unique capabilities of our products.

最後，我將介紹我們汽車業務的最新進展。電動車電源架構不僅在有利於電源整合的方式上不斷發展，而且在某些情況下還受到我們在高壓系統方面的專業知識和我們產品的獨特功能的影響。

Automotive revenues will grow rapidly in 2025 from a modest base of a few million dollars in 2024. More importantly, we are building an impressive roster of customers in the EV industry including pure -battery EVs and plug-in hybrids which should result in a more substantial revenue contribution starting in 2026.

汽車收入將從 2024 年幾百萬美元的適度基礎到 2025 年迅速增長。更重要的是，我們正在電動車產業建立一個令人印象深刻的客戶名單，包括純電池電動車和插電式混合動力車，這將從 2026 年開始帶來更大的收入貢獻。

Building on our early success in China, we are now expanding quickly into other markets. We have several customers scheduled to begin production this year in Europe and the US. In Japan, we were initially expected -- we initially expected resistance as a non-Japanese supplier. We were instead being invited into the market because of the capabilities of our products.

基於我們在中國早期的成功，我們現在正在迅速向其他市場擴張。我們有幾個客戶計劃今年在歐洲和美國開始生產。在日本，作為非日本供應商，我們最初預期會遇到阻力。相反，我們之所以被邀請進入市場，是因為我們產品的表現。

Following our recent qualification at one of Jap -- Japan's largest tier one suppliers, we have now been invited to begin qualification at Japan's largest tier one and we hope to complete that process by the end of 2025. With that, I'll turn it over to Sandeep for review of the financials.

繼我們最近獲得日本最大的一級供應商之一的資格認證後，現在我們又受邀開始獲得日本最大的一級供應商的資格認證，我們希望在 2025 年底前完成這一過程。說完這些，我將把財務狀況交給 Sandeep 進行審查。

Thanks, Balu. And good afternoon. Our Q4 is also straightforward so I will just briefly recap the numbers and the outlook. And then we will take questions.

謝謝，巴魯。午安.我們的第四季也很簡單，所以我將簡單回顧一下數據和前景。然後我們將回答問題。

As usual, I will focus on non-GAAP results which are reconciled to GAAP in our press release. Fourth quarter revenues were $105 million -- in the middle of our guidance range. Revenues were up 18% year over year and down 9% sequentially. I will briefly speak to the sequential changes in each category.

像往常一樣，我將在我們的新聞稿中重點關注與 GAAP 相協調的非 GAAP 結果。第四季營收為 1.05 億美元——處於我們預期範圍的中間。營收年增 18%，季減 9%。我將簡單講一下每個類別的連續變化。

Consumer revenues were down mid-teens sequentially reflecting continued softness in major appliances in the US, Europe, and China. Finished goods inventory at Chinese OEMs remain elevated as the impact of consumer stimulus program thus far appears to have been fairly modest.

消費者營收季減百分之十幾，反映出美國、歐洲和中國主要家電市場持續疲軟。由於迄今為止消費刺激計劃的影響似乎還相當溫和，中國原始設備製造商的成品庫存仍然很高。

However, we did see a meaningful drawdown in channel inventory for Consumer in Q4, giving us added confidence in our growth expectations for 2025. Industrial revenues were down 10% sequentially, largely driven by the timing of shipments for metering applications.

然而，我們確實看到第四季消費通路庫存大幅下降，這讓我們對 2025 年的成長預期更有信心。工業收入環比下降 10％，主要受計量應用的出貨時間影響。

Revenues from the Computer category were down mid-single digits sequentially on lower sales and notebooks. While the Communication category was up mid-single digits on stronger cell phone revenue.

由於銷量下降和筆記型電腦銷量下降，電腦類別的收入環比下降中個位數。而由於手機收入增加，通訊類收入則出現中等個位數成長。

Total channel inventory fell slightly to 8.4 weeks compared to 8.6 weeks last quarter as distribution sell through exceeded selling by about $2 million. For the full year, sell through exceeded selling by about $12 million. Revenue mix for the quarter was 37% consumer, 35% industrial, 15% computer, and 13% communications. Non-GAAP gross margin for the fourth quarter was 55.1% unchanged from the prior quarter.

由於分銷銷售額超過銷售額約 200 萬美元，總通路庫存從上季的 8.6 週略微下降至 8.4 週。全年銷售額超過銷售額約 1200 萬美元。本季的收入結構為：消費性 37%、工業類 35%、電腦類 15%、通訊類 13%。第四季非美國通用會計準則毛利率為55.1%，與上一季持平。

Fully a non-GAAP gross margin was 54.4% up more than 2% points from the prior year driven by the weaker [yen] and favorable mix with lower self -[hold] revenues and higher percentage of sales from Industrial and Consumer.

非公認會計準則下的毛利率為 54.4%，比上年增加了 2 個百分點以上，這得益於日圓走弱、自有收入下降以及工業和消費品銷售比例上升等有利因素。

Non-GAAP operating expenses were $44.6 million for the quarter consistent with our guidance. For the full year non-GAAP OpEx was $174 million up 4% from the prior year including about 0.5-percentage-point stemming from the Odyssey acquisition.

本季非公認會計準則營業費用為 4,460 萬美元，與我們的預期一致。全年非 GAAP 營運支出為 1.74 億美元，較前一年成長 4%，其中約 0.5 個百分點源自於收購 Odyssey。

The non-GAAP tax rate for the quarter was negative 3% reflecting a reversal of FIN 48 reserves. The reversal resulted in an [EPS] benefit of $0.02 per diluted share. Including the tax benefit, non-GAAP earnings for Q4 were $0.30 per diluted share. Share count for the quarter was 57.1 million up slightly from 57 million in the prior quarter.

本季的非公認會計準則稅率為負 3%，反映了 FIN 48 儲備金的逆轉。這一逆轉導致每股攤薄收益為 0.02 美元。包括稅收優惠在內，第四季非公認會計準則每股收益為 0.30 美元。本季股票數量為 5,710 萬股，較上一季的 5,700 萬股略有增加。

Inventory days rose to [315] at quarter end up [24] days from the prior quarter reflecting the sequentially lower revenues. Inventory on the balance sheet fell by $2 million during the quarter. Inventory will remain well above our target level throughout the year but should begin to taper down in the second half.

本季末，庫存天數較上一季增加 [24] 天至 [315] 天，反映出營收連續下降。本季資產負債表上的庫存減少了 200 萬美元。庫存全年仍將遠高於我們的目標水平，但下半年將開始減少。

Cash flow from operations was $15 million for the quarter while CapEx was $3 million. We used $12 million for dividends after the 5% increase that took effect in Q4 and we used $2 million to buy back shares. For the year, we generated $81 million in cash from operations with just over $17 million in CapEx resulting in free cash flow of $64 million. We returned $74 million to stockholders through dividends and buyback.

本季經營活動現金流為 1,500 萬美元，資本支出為 300 萬美元。自第四季起 5% 的股息上調後，我們使用了 1,200 萬美元作為股息，並使用了 200 萬美元回購股票。今年，我們從營運活動中產生了 8,100 萬美元的現金，其中資本支出略高於 1,700 萬美元，產生了 6,400 萬美元的自由現金流。我們透過股息和回購向股東返還了 7,400 萬美元。

Turning to the Q1 outlook, we expect revenues to be flat sequentially plus or minus 5%. Non-GAAP gross margin should be between 55.5% and 56% compared to [51.5] -- 55.1% in Q4. The sequential increase reflects favorable end market mix and incremental benefit from the dollar-yen exchange rate.

展望第一季前景，我們預期營收將與上一季持平，增減 5%。非 GAAP 毛利率應在 55.5% 至 56% 之間，而第四季為 51.5% - 55.1%。連續的成長反映了有利的終端市場組合和美元兌日圓匯率帶來的增量效益。

For the year, I expect gross margin to be around 55.5%. That would be up about one point versus 2024 with higher back-end production volumes and favorable mix, offsetting higher input costs. Non-GAAP operating expenses for Q1 should be around $45 million, a slight increase from Q4 driven by the resumption of FICA taxes and modestly higher head count.

我預計今年的毛利率將在 55.5% 左右。與 2024 年相比，這一數字將上升約 1 個百分點，因為後端生產量會更高，且產品組合也會更有利，抵消更高的投入成本。第一季的非公認會計準則營業費用應為 4,500 萬美元左右，較第四季略有增加，原因是恢復聯邦保險捐款法 (FICA) 稅以及員工人數略有增加。

For the year, I expect non-GAAP OpEx to increase by about 6%, about 1-percentage-point of the increase is a result of the full year of Odyssey expenses compared to half a year in 2024. Finally, I expect our effective tax rate for the first quarter of the year to be in the range of 5% to 6%. And now operator, let's begin the Q&A.

對於今年，我預計非 GAAP 營運支出將增加約 6%，其中約 1 個百分點的增幅是由於奧德賽全年的支出與 2024 年半年的支出相比有所增加。最後，我預計今年第一季的有效稅率將在 5% 至 6% 之間。現在接線員，我們開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) David Williams, The Benchmark Company.

（操作員指示）大衛威廉斯（David Williams），基準公司。

Good afternoon, everyone. And by the way, let me just first say, congratulations on the retirement. It's well deserved and we'll miss you and wish you the best.

大家下午好。順便說一句，首先請允許我說一句，恭喜您退休。這是你應得的，我們會想念你並祝你一切順利。

Thanks, David.

謝謝，大衛。

So first, it really seems -- I mean, you've obviously been very upbeat on GaN opportunity over the last couple years but it sounds like you've got greater conviction today in meeting that higher power and even talking about the EV drive train in those areas. Can -- has anything changed maybe over the last couple of quarters that's given you more confidence there, maybe something that's come along with the Odyssey. Or just maybe internal efforts but just anything around that your confidence in that -- in the GaN transition that to the power train potential. Thank.

首先，看起來——我的意思是，過去幾年你顯然對 GaN 的機會非常樂觀，但聽起來你今天對滿足更高功率甚至談論這些領域的電動車傳動系統有了更大的信心。在過去幾個季度裡，是否發生了一些變化讓您更有信心，也許是奧德賽帶來的一些變化。或者可能只是內部的努力，但只是圍繞著你對 GaN 轉變為動力傳動系統潛力的信心。感謝。

Thanks, David. Absolutely. We talked about it the last quarter as well. I would say in the last year, we have made significant strides in our technology that will allow us now to address tens of kilowatts. And that's why we are now talking about AI data center opportunity. We think with the technology we have today, we can go up to perhaps 50 kilowatts worth of applications.

謝謝，大衛。絕對地。我們上個季度也討論過這個問題。我想說，去年我們在技術上取得了重大進步，現在我們可以解決幾十千瓦的問題了。這就是我們現在談論人工智慧資料中心機會的原因。我們認為，憑藉我們現有的技術，我們的應用功率可以達到約 50 千瓦。

Now, the new technology we are working on, which is the reason we acquired Odyssey Semiconductor, will allow us to go to much higher power levels, hundreds of kilowatts. That's when we'll be able to get into EV drive train. And we believe we can be very competitive or actually much lower cost than silicon carbide and provide even higher performance than silicon carbide.

現在，我們正在研究的新技術，這也是我們收購奧德賽半導體公司的原因，它將使我們能夠達到更高的功率水平，數百千瓦。到那時我們就能進入電動車傳動系統了。我們相信，我們的產品非常具有競爭力，實際上成本比碳化矽低得多，但性能卻比碳化矽更高。

So that's kind of the holy grail that we are working towards. And there we are making good progress, we still have some ways to go. We think we can be there in the three-to-five-year time frame and acquiring Odyssey is really going to help us get there faster than we originally thought.

這就是我們努力追求的聖杯。我們已經取得了很大的進展，但我們還有很長的路要走。我們認為我們可以在三到五年的時間內實現這一目標，而收購 Odyssey 確實會幫助我們比原先想像的更快地實現這一目標。

And that's the reason I'm very optimistic about GaN in general. But I would also say from a business side, I'm really impressed how broadly GaN has been adopted. It is no longer just cell phones, we are talking about notebooks, tablets, you know, monitors, TVs, appliances, industrial applications. So it's it's really across all of the markets and that's why we believe this year is going to be a significant growth for us and going forward, it'll grow even faster.

這就是我對 GaN 整體非常樂觀的原因。但我想從商業角度來說，GaN的廣泛應用令我印象深刻。我們談論的不再只是手機，還包括筆記型電腦、平板電腦、顯示器、電視、家用電器、工業應用。所以它確實遍布所有市場，這就是為什麼我們相信今年對我們來說將是一個顯著的成長，並且展望未來，它的成長速度會更快。

So I am very, very confident GaN will be the high voltage switch of choice for the future. And of course, all of our products have them so that's going to make a huge difference to us. And also, we are so far ahead of our competitors in terms of voltage level, in terms of reliability, in terms of cost, we feel very, very strong that GaN would be a huge benefit for us -- differential benefit for us as a company.

因此我非常有信心 GaN 將成為未來的首選高壓開關。當然，我們所有的產品都有這些功能，所以這對我們來說意義重大。此外，我們在電壓水平、可靠性和成本方面都遠遠領先於競爭對手，我們非常堅信 GaN 將為我們帶來巨大的利益——為我們公司帶來差異化利益。

Fantastic progress there and making a lot of headway. But I guess maybe secondly, on the automotive, you also talked about that now and where you're playing. Can you update us on maybe how many [exonowings] you have in the automotive space. And maybe the just kind of speak to the magnitude that you're expecting from getting an automotive over this year and maybe in the next couple of years. How that should trend?Thanks.

那裡取得了巨大的進步和進展。但我想也許其次，關於汽車，您現在也談到了這一點以及您在哪裡工作。您能否告訴我們，你們在汽車領域擁有多少個 [exonowing]？這可能只是說了你對今年或未來幾年購買汽車的期望值。那應該如何發展？

Yeah, just to be clear, a lot of the designs that we are already in. We have about 20 designs that, you know, are in production right now. They are either silicon or silicon carbide. We recently introduced the 900 volt GaN that will be suitable for the 400 volt battery system and we are actually getting designments on that.

是的，需要明確的是，我們已經進行了很多設計。我們大約有 20 種設計目前正在生產中。它們要么是矽，要么是碳化矽。我們最近推出了適用於 400 伏特電池系統的 900 伏特 GaN，我們實際上正在進行相關設計。

And of course we have the 1,700 volt silicon carbide but we will also have the 1,700 volt GaN-based device for automotive as well. And that is that is required for the 800 volt battery. So the 400 will be required in a 900 volt GaN and the 800 volt battery will require 1,700 volt GaN.

當然，我們有 1,700 伏特碳化矽，但我們也將擁有用於汽車的 1,700 伏特基於 GaN 的設備。這就是 800 伏特電池所需要的。因此，900 伏特 GaN 需要 400 伏特，而 800 伏特電池則需要 1,700 伏特 GaN。

So we are in very good shape to address those markets with GaN. But on top of that, there are other sockets in the car. Like for example, these DC converters to replace 12 volt batteries. So we are working on products using GaN. It is in a higher power version of InnoSwitch and that will provide us additional sockets and significant dollars for that matter.

因此，我們完全有能力利用 GaN 來滿足這些市場的需求。但除此之外，車內還有其他插座。例如，這些直流轉換器可以取代 12 伏特電池。所以我們正在研發使用 GaN 的產品。它是 InnoSwitch 的更高功率版本，它將為我們提供額外的插座和大量的資金。

Right now, our primary socket is the emergency power supply in the drive train and also auxiliary power supplies for various subsystems. But the DC converter is a much bigger dollar content and then once we have the 10, 20 kilowatt type of solutions that we're working on, we can also address the onboard charger application. And then we have to wait for our high power GaN to go into the EV drive train.

目前我們的主要插座是傳動系統中的緊急電源以及各個子系統的輔助電源。但是直流轉換器的成本要大得多，一旦我們有了正在研發的 10、20 千瓦類型的解決方案，我們也可以解決車載充電器應用的問題。然後我們必須等待高功率 GaN 進入電動車傳動系統。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Ross Seymore, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的羅斯·西摩。

Thanks. May I ask a couple questions and first and foremost, congratulations. As David said, very, very well deserved and we'll be missing you on these calls. So I guess for my first question, the report and guide were pretty much in line. It didn't even look like the end markets were terribly surprising. So what would you describe as the biggest update of what you're seeing overall from a market environment today versus 30 days ago? What's changed?

謝謝。我可以問幾個問題嗎？正如大衛所說，您當之無愧，我們將在這些電話中想念您。所以我想對於我的第一個問題，報告和指南是基本上一致的。終端市場甚至看起來並沒有什麼太令人驚訝的表現。那麼與 30 天前相比，您認為今天的市場環境整體上最大的變化是什麼？有什麼改變？

Well, that's a good question. Not a significant change. The only thing I would say is in 2025, that is this year, we expect to see a significant growth in Industrial which is kind of a little bit out of sync with the rest of the semiconductor market.

嗯，這是個好問題。沒有什麼重大變化。我唯一想說的是，在 2025 年，也就是今年，我們預計工業將顯著成長，這與其他半導體市場有點不同步。

And that's because we have some really unique opportunity that will go into production. Things like infrastructure-related projects, you know, renewables, high voltage DC transmission systems, electric locomotives and that's in the high power part of the business.

這是因為我們有一些真正獨特的機會可以投入生產。諸如基礎設施相關項目、再生能源、高壓直流輸電系統、電力機車等​​等，都屬於業務的高功率部分。

But beyond that, we're also doing very well in meters which is also infrastructure related. We talked about the India meter opportunity and then we are doing very well in the home and building automation, and power tools, and so on.

除此之外，我們在與基礎設施相關的儀表方面也做得很好。我們討論了印度電錶的機會，我們在家庭和建築自動化、電動工具等領域做得非常好。

So this year, Industrial is going to be the strongest growth market which again is a little bit unique but part of it is because some of the infrastructure projects which are supposed to start last year have been pushed to this year. But that bodes really well for the industry of this year.

因此，今年工業將成為成長最強勁的市場，這再次有點獨特，但部分原因是一些原本應該在去年啟動的基礎設施項目被推遲到今年。但這對今年的產業來說確實是一個好兆頭。

And I guess, as my second question and you know, not to ask too much. But I think in your last call, you talked about -- you thought all four segments would grow this year. Is that still the case?

我想，作為我的第二個問題，不要問太多。但我認為在您上次電話會議中，您談到 - 您認為所有四個部門今年都會實現增長。現在還是這樣嗎？

From the best, you know, modeling we have done all four should grow but Industrial would be the largest growth.

您知道，從我們所做的最佳模型來看，這四個領域都應該會成長，但工業的成長將是最大的。

Yeah. In dollar terms, Industrial will grow followed by Consumer; but we expect all four. And even in Communication we are expecting growth with the two areas of cell phone as well as a networking product. So we've got growth in all areas.

是的。以美元計算，工業將成長，其次是消費；但我們希望四個都實現。即使在通訊領域，我們也預期手機和網路產品兩個領域都會成長。所以我們在各個領域都取得了成長。

Yeah, just to amplify on that and you know, we talked about the networking product that this is the residential networking, the fixed 5G network. But we are also going to see growth in the remaining cell phone market because of content growth.

是的，只是為了擴大這一點，你知道，我們討論了網絡產品，這是住宅網絡，固定 5G 網絡。但由於內容的成長，我們也將看到剩餘手機市場的成長。

We have growth because we are able to upgrade to you know, InnoSwitch3-PD, which has the PD protocol built into it. So that increases our dollar content. Also, many of the products are good. I mean, that is also move towards higher power to charge AI-based forms. And that loss increase our valve content because they'll then move on to GaN for higher power charges.

我們之所以實現成長，是因為我們能夠升級到 InnoSwitch3-PD，它內建了 PD 協定。這樣就增加了我們的美元含量。此外，很多產品都很好。我的意思是，這也是朝著更高功率為基於人工智慧的形式充電邁出的一步。這種損失會增加我們的閥門含量，因為它們隨後會轉向 GaN 以獲得更高的功率充電。

Got it. Thanks guys and congrats again.

知道了。謝謝大家，再次恭喜。

Thanks, Ross. I appreciate it.

謝謝，羅斯。我很感激。

Tore Svanberg, Stifel.

托爾·思文伯格（Tore Svanberg），Stifel 公司。

Yes. Thank you and congratulations on your retirement. It's been a true honor working with you and covering prior integrations during your tenure; I wish you all the best. So the first question that I had is on the near term by segment. I assume the Communications segment will probably be down seasonally but you know, how should we think about the four segments into the March quarter?

是的。謝謝您並恭喜您退休。我非常榮幸能與您共事並在您任職期間負責先前的整合工作；祝你一切順利。所以我的第一個問題是關於近期各部分的情況。我認為通訊部門可能會因季節性而下滑，但您知道，我們應該如何看待三月季度的四個部門？

Yeah, the way I would look at it that -- you would see that basically, the Consumer and Industrial will grow and come and the Communication and Computer would be down.

是的，我的看法是——基本上，你會發現，消費品和工業將會成長，而通訊和電腦將會下降。

Great. And as my follow up question, channel inventory and I know sometimes, in the March quarter, there's a lot of, you know, moving parts, especially with Chinese New Year and so on and so forth. So I know channel inventory came down a couple of days, I believe you said this in Q4. But how should we think about channel inventory target in Q1?

偉大的。我的後續問題是通路庫存，我知道有時在三月季度，會有很多活動部件，尤其是農曆新年等期間。所以我知道通路庫存下降了幾天，我相信你在第四季就說過這件事。但我們該如何看待第一季的通路庫存目標呢？

I think at the best I know, I think sell in and sell through to should be around similar. So I think the channel inventory should hold and in fact, this is one of the good things for us for 2025. You know, we have -- we are coming -- starting off with what I call the normal weeks and with all the growth drivers that Balu talked about really -- we feel very good about our growth. And really think even for the year, sell in and sell through should be pretty close, give and take.

我認為就我所知，最好的情況是，銷售量和銷售率應該大致相同。因此我認為通路庫存應該保持，事實上，這對我們 2025 年來說是一件好事。你知道，我們已經 - 我們即將 - 從我所說的正常幾週開始，並且有了巴魯真正談到的所有增長動力 - 我們對我們的增長感到非常滿意。而且真的認為，即使是一年，銷售量和銷售量也應該非常接近，有得有失。

Very good. And just one last question for you, Balu, you talked about some early revenues in data center power supplies scheduled for early next year. Are those GaN and silicon products or either one or the other?

非常好。最後一個問題，Balu，您談到了計劃於明年初實現的資料中心電源早期收入。這些是 GaN 和矽產品嗎，還是其中一種？

Sorry, first of all, thank you for the congratulations. Yeah, just to be clear, I said that our first product for data centers will be available next week, next year, but we won't see revenue until 27 or 28. We may get a little bit in 27 but really, it'll be 28 before we get a significant revenue and the products are entirely gan because Gan is where we have a really an advantage in the, in the A I data center power supplies. But I do want to remind you, we are already designed into A I you know, server power supplies with our standby products which are also GAN based.

抱歉，首先謝謝你的恭喜。是的，需要明確的是，我說過，我們的第一款資料中心產品將於下週、明年上市，但我們要到 27 或 28 日才能看到收入。我們可能在 27 年獲得一點收入，但實際上，我們要到 28 年才能獲得可觀的收入，而且產品全部是 GaN，因為 GaN 在人工智慧資料中心電源方面真正具有優勢。但我確實想提醒你，我們已經設計了 A I，你知道，伺服器電源和備用產品也是基於 GAN 的。

And we, that will grow very nicely this year and next year, but that market is not as big as the main power supply. For example, the standby market is about roughly $100 million of s whereas the main power supply is you're talking about more than, a billion dollars. You know, once we introduce the two or three products we are planning for it.

今年和明年我們的成長將會非常好，但是這個市場並不像主電源那麼大。例如，待機市場規模約為 1 億美元，而主電源市場規模則超過 10 億美元。你知道，一旦我們推出我們正在規劃的兩三款產品。

Great congratulating. Thank you.

非常恭喜。謝謝。

Thanks. Sorry.

謝謝。對不起。

Christopher Rolland, Susquehanna Financial Group.

薩斯奎哈納金融集團 (Susquehanna Financial Group) 的克里斯多福羅蘭 (Christopher Rolland)。

Thanks for the question and blo I echo my congrats. You look great for 71 by the way.

感謝您的提問，我對此表示祝賀。順便說一句，你 71 歲了，看起來還不錯。

That, that is a little over.

那、那有點過頭了。

I need your skin care routine.

我需要你的皮膚護理程序。

Okay, so my, my question is around Gan and it seems like you're really focused on high power. Do you think like the low end of the market commoditizes between like in the science on one side and you know, 300 millimeter from infineon the other at the low end and then on high power, is this like a sustainable competitive advantage or do you think others are going to catch up here as well?

好的，我的問題是關於 Gan 的，看起來你真的很關注高功率。您是否認為，低端市場在科學領域和英飛凌的 300 毫米低端及高功率領域實現商品化，這是否是一種可持續的競爭優勢，還是您認為其他人也會趕上來？

I believe, first of all, thank you for the compliments, but I believe we can compete very well across the entire power spectrum from low power to high power. And let me talk a little bit of the two examples you gave. You know, first of all, we don't sell the street gain people who sell the street, I think have a very tough challenge with some of the chinese suppliers, especially in our science. We sell a system and the benefit there is that we really can extract the most value out of the ga at the system. Level in terms of efficiency, in terms of protection and so on and so forth. So that's one thing. So we think we can compete very well in the low power area.

我相信，首先，感謝您的讚美，但我相信我們可以在從低功率到高功率的整個功率範圍內很好地競爭。讓我稍微談談您舉的兩個例子。你知道，首先，我們不向街頭銷售產品，我認為我們與一些中國供應商面臨非常嚴峻的挑戰，特別是在科學領域。我們銷售一個系統，這樣做的好處是我們確實可以從該系統中提取最大的價值。在效率、保護等方面的水準。這是一回事。因此我們認為我們可以在低功耗領域中具有很好的競爭力。

When you go to high power, the dollar content is much higher and the benefits we can bring is also more significant. And we think that that's a huge growth path for us. If you look at the data center, we think that will provide us a strong revenue growth because of the products will bring such significant advantage in terms of size and efficiency.

當你走向高功率時，美元含量會高得多，我們能帶來的利益也會更顯著。我們認為，這對我們來說是一條巨大的成長道路。如果你看看資料中心，我們認為這將為我們提供強勁的營收成長，因為產品在規模和效率方面將帶來如此顯著的優勢。

Now talking about 300 million millimeter, there are two things that I think it's really important to know. First of all that this point, we don't know of any equipment that can do high voltage scan on 300 millimeters. I believe the announcement that we made are for low voltage scan. When I say low voltage less than 600 volts, which is basically we are in 100 200 volts may be possible, but to really go to higher voltages, you need much thicker.

現在談到 3 億毫米，我認為有兩件事非常重要。首先這一點，我們不知道有任何設備可以對300毫米進行高壓掃描。我相信我們所發布的公告是針對低壓掃描的。當我說低於 600 伏特的低壓時，基本上我們在 100 到 200 伏特的情況下可能是可行的，但要真正達到更高的電壓，就需要更厚的材料。

And the challenge with that is first of all, the cost of gain is really in the P SOFER makes not that much difference.

而這樣做的挑戰首先在於，收益成本實際上在 P SOFER 中並沒有太大差異。

And to the extent the wafer size makes some difference, the fact that we have growth such the KP on such a large wafer creates a humongous amount of stress. I mean they call it, I think they call it as a, poor chip. That's what it looks like. And what that means is that to deal with that stress when you do that, the yield goes down significantly. So it is not clear to me that going to a larger size Wafer is a benefit for high voltage GAAP. Just just to be clear what we are doing is reducing the cost in other ways like device design, process design and and you know, really dramatically reducing the die size. The difference in wafer size is is not very significant in terms of cost.

如果晶圓尺寸有所差異，那麼在如此大的晶圓上實現 KP 這樣的增長就會產生巨大的壓力。我的意思是他們稱它為，我認為他們稱它為，劣質晶片。看起來就是這樣。這意味著當你這樣做時，為了應對壓力，產量會大幅下降。因此，我不清楚採用更大尺寸的晶圓是否對高電壓 GAAP 有益。只是為了清楚起見，我們正在做的是透過其他方式來降低成本，例如設備設計、製程設計，以及大幅縮小晶片尺寸。從成本角度來看，晶圓尺寸的差異並不大。

Interesting, thank, thank you. The next one is maybe for Sandeep. Sandeep, you always have Macro thoughts. I appreciate those. Sounded like in the press release, there was some commentary around tariffs. One of your, your thoughts there also you're usually plugged in on Chinese subsidies. Seems like you had some commentary there as well. And then anything else Macro that, that you want to add? I would appreciate.

有趣，謝謝，謝謝。下一個可能是給 Sandeep 的。Sandeep，你總是有宏觀思維。我很感激這些。聽起來新聞稿中有一些有關關稅的評論。您的想法之一也是通常關注中國的補貼。看來你在那裡也有一些評論。然後您還想新增其他巨集嗎？我將不勝感激。

Yeah, I mean, basically, we felt the subsidies of the full effect of that hasn't been. Now, there was also there could be some pull in because of tariffs. I really want to see the sell through in first quarter, which will give me a better idea of whether it was tariffs or whether it is the subsidies. So I'm waiting to watch that. I think the trade policy is obviously something we are watching because we have a lot of tariffs and it has an impact on end market demand that can also impact us. You know, at the end of the day, we go into things like appliances and there are other and that, it becomes very expensive, can impact demand. But I think if things really don't go extreme and are normal, I think the areas that blu has highlighted of growth in our appliances as well as in our industrial applications. We really believe that we will have a very good growth here this year. So obviously a thing which is hard to predict is the real impact of tariffs, which you know whether it's a wait and watch. But I think, all these things that come even out over a period of time but do have short term impact. So, but I think we have enough growth drivers that if things are normal, that we'll have a very good year.

是的，我的意思是，基本上，我們還沒有感受到補助的全部效果。現在，由於關稅的原因，也可能會有一些拉動。我真的很想看看第一季的銷售情況，這將讓我更了解這是關稅還是補貼。所以我等著看這個。我認為貿易政策顯然是我們正在關注的事情，因為我們有很多關稅，這對終端市場需求有影響，也會對我們產生影響。你知道，到最後，我們會購買諸如家用電器之類的東西，還有其他東西，這會變得非常昂貴，會影響需求。但我認為，如果事情真的沒有走向極端並且處於正常狀態，我認為 blu 所強調的領域將是我們的家用電器以及工業應用領域的成長。我們確實相信，今年我們將實現非常好的成長。因此，顯然很難預測關稅的實際影響，你是否需要等待和觀察。但我認為，所有這些事情都會在一段時間內逐漸平息，但確實會產生短期影響。所以，但我認為我們有足夠的成長動力，如果一切正常，我們將迎來非常好的一年。

Excellent, thanks so much guys.

非常好，非常感謝大家。

Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder. Should you have any questions? Please press the star key followed by the number one.

女士們、先生們，提醒一下。您還有什麼疑問嗎？請按星號鍵，然後按數字 1。

We will pause for a moment.

我們暫停一會兒。

There are no further questions at this time. Please proceed with closing remarks. Okay.

目前沒有其他問題。請繼續致結束語。好的。

Thanks Andrew. I know it's a busy, busy day of earnings out there. Thanks everyone for listening. There will be a replay of this call available on our website investors dot power dotcom. Thanks again and good afternoon.

謝謝安德魯。我知道今天是忙碌的賺錢日。感謝大家的聆聽。我們的網站 investors dot power dotcom 上將提供本次電話會議的重播。再次感謝，下午好。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，並請您斷開線路。