沛齊 (PAYX) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone, and welcome to today's Paychex Second Quarter Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this call is being recorded, and that I'll be standing by should you need any assistance. It is now my pleasure to turn today's program over to John Gibson.

大家好，歡迎參加今天的 Paychex 第二季財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，此通話正在錄音，如果您需要任何協助，我將隨時待命。現在我很高興將今天的節目交給約翰吉布森。

Thanks, Chelsea. Thank you, everyone, for joining us for our discussion of the Paychex Second Quarter Fiscal 2024 earnings release. Joining me today is Bob Schrader, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝，切爾西。感謝大家加入我們對 Paychex 2024 財年第二季財報發布的討論。今天加入我的是我們的財務長鮑勃‧施拉德 (Bob Schrader)。

This morning, before the market opened, we released our financial results for the second quarter. You can access our earnings release on our Investor Relations website, and our Form 10-Q will be filed with the SEC within the next day. This teleconference is being broadcast on the Internet and will be archived and available on our website for approximately 90 days.

今天早上，在開盤前，我們發布了第二季的財務表現。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上造訪我們的收益發布，我們的 10-Q 表格將在第二天內提交給 SEC。本次電話會議將在網路上進行廣播，並將在我們的網站上存檔並提供約 90 天的時間。

I'm going to start today with a brief update on the business highlights for the second quarter, and then I'll turn it over to Bob for a financial update and then, of course, we'll take your questions.

今天我將首先簡要介紹第二季度的業務亮點，然後我會將其轉交給鮑勃以獲取最新的財務信息，然後，當然，我們將回答您的問題。

We had solid results in the second quarter and for the first half of the fiscal year, with particularly strong performance in the PEO, mid-market HCM and retirement. Revenue for the first half was up 6% year-over-year, and our adjusted diluted earnings per share was up 10%, double digits.

我們在第二季和上半財年取得了穩健的業績，特別是在 PEO、中階市場 HCM 和退休方面的表現尤其強勁。上半年營收年增 6%，調整後攤薄每股收益成長 10%，達到兩位數。

The demand for our HR technology advisory solutions remains strong as business leaders continue to face a very challenging small and midsized business environment. The tight labor market and rising healthcare and benefits costs are forcing many to rethink their HR and benefit strategies. And they can turn to Paychex as a trusted business partner in these times.

由於企業領導者繼續面臨非常具有挑戰性的中小型企業環境，對我們的人力資源技術諮詢解決方案的需求仍然強勁。勞動力市場緊張以及醫療保健和福利成本上升迫使許多人重新考慮他們的人力資源和福利策略。他們可以將 Paychex 作為值得信賴的業務合作夥伴。

As we sit here today, the selling season for our mid-market HCM and our PEO teams are in their final phases, and our insurance open enrollment is underway. All are going well and in line with our expectations. Our pipelines for these solutions are strong and up from this time last year.

當我們今天坐在這裡時，我們的中端市場 HCM 和 PEO 團隊的銷售季節正處於最後階段，我們的保險公開註冊正在進行中。一切進展順利，符合我們的預期。我們的這些解決方案的管道很強大，而且比去年這個時候還要多。

In the small business market, selling season is just ramping up. We still have a critical third quarter to go, both in terms of selling and delivering for our clients during year-end, but we are fully staffed and well positioned at this critical time of year. Our revenue retention remains above pre-pandemic levels as we continue to focus our resources on acquiring and retaining high-value clients. Client retention has improved over last year, and retention in our HR outsourcing solutions remains at record levels.

在小型企業市場，銷售旺季才剛開始。無論是在年底為客戶銷售還是交付方面，我們還有一個關鍵的第三季度，但在一年中的這個關鍵時刻，我們人員配備齊全，處於有利位置。隨著我們繼續將資源集中在獲取和留住高價值客戶上，我們的收入保留率仍高於疫情前的水平。客戶保留率比去年有所提高，我們的人力資源外包解決方案的保留率仍保持在創紀錄的水平。

I'd like to highlight the success specifically in our PEO business, which we've talked about on prior calls. It has continued to gain momentum with strong results during the first half of the fiscal year. We have seen a shift back towards the PEO offering, both outside and inside our client base. This shift in mix has a long-term positive impact on customer lifetime value on our business model, particularly as clients attach insurance benefits.

我想特別強調我們在 PEO 業務方面取得的成功，我們在先前的電話會議中已經討論過這一點。該公司在本財年上半年繼續保持強勁勢頭，並取得了強勁業績。我們已經看到，無論是在我們的客戶群外部還是內部，都出現了向 PEO 產品的轉變。這種組合的轉變對我們業務模式的客戶終身價值產生長期正面影響，特別是當客戶附加保險福利時。

We previously discussed actions we took to help the PEO recover after last year's challenges, including: one, redesigning our health offerings; second, leveraging AI to revamp our sales and marketing models and to identify and attract high-value prospects; three, putting more focus on upgrading existing HCM and ASO clients to the PEO model; and finally, improved sales execution. As mentioned earlier, our insurance enrollment is underway, and the tax rates are up after a challenging year last year. I want to specifically thank and congratulate our PEO team for all the hard work and success in the past year so far.

我們先前討論了為幫助 PEO 在去年的挑戰後恢復過來而採取的行動，包括：一、重新設計我們的醫療服務；其次，利用人工智慧來改善我們的銷售和行銷模式，識別和吸引高價值的潛在客戶；三、更重視將現有的HCM和ASO客戶升級為PEO模式；最後，提高銷售執行力。如前所述，我們的保險註冊正在進行中，並且在經歷了去年充滿挑戰的一年後，稅率也有所上漲。我要特別感謝並祝賀我們的 PEO 團隊在過去一年中所付出的努力和取得的成功。

The macro environment and labor environment continue to be challenging for small and midsized businesses. Our small business employment watch continues to show moderation in both job growth and wage inflation, which is indicative of a stable macro environment and that the actions taken by the Fed are having their desired impact. While we haven't seen any normal signs of a recession in our data, we started to see some softening in seasonal hiring in the quarter, particularly in our large client segments, including our HR outsourcing businesses, many of which typically add seasonal employees at this time of the year.

宏觀環境和勞動力環境對中小企業來說仍然充滿挑戰。我們的小型企業就業觀察繼續顯示就業成長和薪資通膨放緩，這表明宏觀環境穩定，聯準會採取的行動正在產生預期的影響。雖然我們的數據沒有看到任何正常的衰退跡象，但我們開始看到本季季節性招聘有所放緩，特別是在我們的大型客戶群中，包括我們的人力資源外包業務，其中許多業務通常會在每年的這個時候。

SMBs are still challenged with access to capital, the high cost of capital, inflation and macro uncertainty. While we certainly don't see any signs of economic downturn, we are ready to take the required actions if such trends emerge. As one of the best operators in the business, we have demonstrated that we are able to respond and successfully navigate changes in any economic environment.

中小企業仍面臨融資管道、資本成本高、通貨膨脹和宏觀不確定性等挑戰。雖然我們當然沒有看到任何經濟衰退的跡象，但如果發生這種趨勢，我們準備採取必要的行動。作為業內最好的營運商之一，我們已經證明我們能夠應對並成功應對任何經濟環境的變化。

I know that AI and related technology advancements remain a hot topic in our industry. As I've noted in past calls, AI at Paychex is nothing new. We have over hundreds of -- and growing models, AI models that are actively working in our business today designed to provide valuable insights fueled by our vast data assets.

我知道人工智慧和相關技術進步仍然是我們行業的熱門話題。正如我在過去的電話會議中指出的那樣，Paychex 的人工智慧並不是什麼新鮮事。我們擁有數百個且不斷成長的模型，人工智慧模型正在我們今天的業務中積極發揮作用，旨在透過我們龐大的數據資產提供有價值的見解。

The exciting transformation that is now occurring around generative AI opens up the opportunity for us to bring AI solutions to our employees, so they can be more effective and efficient, and to our clients. We are actively investing in gen AI and exploring how it can be used to improve efficiency and the customer experience and provide actual insights to us and our clients to help them succeed.

現在圍繞著生成人工智慧發生的令人興奮的轉變為我們提供了為員工和客戶提供人工智慧解決方案的機會，使他們能夠更加有效和高效。我們正在積極投資新一代人工智慧，探索如何利用它來提高效率和客戶體驗，並為我們和我們的客戶提供實際的見解，幫助他們取得成功。

Currently, recently, we partnered with Visier, a global leader in people analytics and workforce solutions, to offer new benchmarking reports and AI-powered HR analytics solutions to our customers. This enhances our current reporting and analytics available in Paychex Flex and will perfectly complement our industry-leading HR advisory services. The partnership provides core HR and compensation analytics and compensation in salary benchmarking, an AI-driven model with benchmarks against 750 million market data points. This offering, in addition to our AI-driven retention insight solution that we launched over a year ago, is just the beginning of how we will leverage AI to help businesses succeed.

最近，我們與人員分析和勞動力解決方案的全球領導者 Visier 合作，為我們的客戶提供新的基準測試報告和人工智慧驅動的人力資源分析解決方案。這增強了 Paychex Flex 中現有的報告和分析功能，並將完美補充我們業界領先的人力資源諮詢服務。該合作夥伴關係提供核心人力資源和薪酬分析以及薪資基準補償，這是一個人工智慧驅動的模型，以 7.5 億個市場數據點為基準。除了我們一年多前推出的人工智慧驅動的留存洞察解決方案之外，這項產品只是我們利用人工智慧來幫助企業成功的開始。

Partnerships with Visier, like our recruiting and onboarding partnership with Indeed, is another example of how Paychex is bringing together the power of partnerships, our large data assets and integration to improve the customer experience and deliver real value and business outcomes for our clients.

與Visier 的合作夥伴關係，就像我們與Indeed 的招募和入職合作夥伴關係一樣，是Paychex 如何將合作夥伴關係、我們的大數據資產和整合的力量結合在一起的另一個例子，以改善客戶體驗並為我們的客戶提供真正的價值和業務成果。

We are also pleased that for the seventh consecutive year, we have been positioned in the leader quadrant as part of the NelsonHall 2023 Vendor Evaluation report for payroll service providers. This provides further evidence of our leadership position based on our robust technology and customer support. We're also very proud to be recognized in the Sapient Insights Group Voice of the Customer Top 5 Vendor Survey for 2023 and 2024, receiving top 5 ratings in six categories spanning payroll, HR, time and attendance, learning and performance.

我們也很高興地看到，作為 NelsonHall 2023 年薪資服務提供者供應商評估報告的一部分，我們連續第七年被評為領導者象限。這進一步證明了我們基於強大技術和客戶支援的領先地位。我們也非常自豪能夠在Sapient Insights Group 2023 年和2024 年客戶之聲前5 名供應商調查中獲得認可，在薪資、人力資源、時間和出勤、學習和績效等六個類別中獲得前5 名評級。

And really, what I'm most proud of is that the Sapient report is actually based on actual voices of our customers and customers from across the competitors, which demonstrates our leadership position across the industry. As we head into selling season in calendar year-end, I'm confident in our global Paychex team and that they will constantly deliver and consistently deliver for our clients. We remain driven to be the trusted partner for small and midsized businesses that deliver industry-leading HCM technology and advisory solutions that help our clients succeed. I'll now turn it over to Bob to give you a brief update on our financial results in the quarter. Bob?

事實上，我最自豪的是，Sapient 報告實際上是基於我們的客戶以及來自競爭對手的客戶的實際聲音，這證明了我們在整個行業中的領導地位。隨著年底銷售季節的到來，我對我們的全球 Paychex 團隊充滿信心，他們將持續為我們的客戶提供服務。我們始終致力於成為中小企業值得信賴的合作夥伴，提供業界領先的 HCM 技術和諮詢解決方案，幫助我們的客戶取得成功。現在我將把它交給鮑勃，向您簡要介紹我們本季度的財務業績。鮑伯？

Thanks, Johnny, and good morning, everyone. I'd like to remind everyone that today's commentary will contain forward-looking statements that refer to future events that [pertain] involve some level of risk. I'll refer you to our customer disclosures in our press release as well as our Investor Relations presentation that should be on our website.

謝謝強尼，大家早安。我想提醒大家，今天的評論將包含前瞻性陳述，涉及涉及一定程度風險的未來事件。我將向您推薦我們新聞稿中的客戶披露資訊以及應在我們網站上發布的投資者關係簡報。

I will start by providing a summary of our second quarter financial results. Total revenue for the quarter increased 6% to $1.3 billion. Management Solutions revenue increased 4% to $931 million. That was primarily driven by growth in a number of our clients served across our suite of HCM solutions, price realization and increased product penetration and growth in ancillary services.

我將首先概述我們第二季的財務表現。該季度總營收成長 6%，達到 13 億美元。管理解決方案營收成長 4%，達到 9.31 億美元。這主要是由於我們的 HCM 解決方案套件所服務的客戶數量的成長、價格實現、產品滲透率的提高以及輔助服務的成長所推動的。

PEO and Insurance Solutions revenue increased 8% to $296 million. That was driven primarily by higher revenue per client, including higher insurance revenues and average worksite employees. As John mentioned, our PEO saw continued momentum in sales activity and medical plan purchase and volumes during the second quarter. Interest on funds held for clients increased 44% to $31 million. That was primarily due to higher average interest rates. Total expenses increased 5% to $752 million. Expense growth was largely attributable to higher compensation costs, PEO direct insurance costs and continued investments in sales, marketing and technology.

PEO 和保險解決方案收入成長 8%，達到 2.96 億美元。這主要是由於每個客戶的收入增加，包括保險收入和平均工作場所員工的增加。正如約翰所提到的，我們的 PEO 在第二季度看到了銷售活動、醫療計劃購買和數量的持續成長勢頭。為客戶持有的資金利息增加了 44%，達到 3,100 萬美元。這主要是由於平均利率較高。總支出成長 5%，達到 7.52 億美元。費用成長主要歸因於薪酬成本、PEO 直接保險成本的增加以及對銷售、行銷和技術的持續投資。

Operating income increased 7% to $506 million for the quarter with an operating margin of 40.2%. That's a 50 basis point expansion over the prior year period. And both diluted earnings per share and adjusted diluted earnings per share increased 9% to $1.08 per share.

該季度營業收入成長 7%，達到 5.06 億美元，營業利潤率為 40.2%。這比去年同期成長了 50 個基點。稀釋每股盈餘和調整後稀釋每股盈餘均成長 9%，達到每股 1.08 美元。

I will now quickly touch on the results for the first 6 months of the year. Total revenue grew 6% to $2.5 billion. Management Solutions revenue in the first half of the year increased 5% to $1.9 billion. PEO and Insurance Solutions was up 7% to $593 million. And interest on funds held for clients increased 62% to $64 million.

我現在將快速談談今年前 6 個月的結果。總營收成長 6%，達到 25 億美元。上半年管理解決方案營收成長 5%，達到 19 億美元。 PEO 和保險解決方案成長 7%，達到 5.93 億美元。為客戶持有的資金利息增加了 62%，達到 6,400 萬美元。

Our total expenses for the first half of the year were up 5% to $1.5 billion. And our operating margins for the first 6 months were 41%, and that was a 60 basis point improvement over the prior year. Diluted earnings per share and adjusted diluted earnings per share both increased 10% to $2.24 and $2.23, respectively.

我們上半年的總支出成長了 5%，達到 15 億美元。前 6 個月我們的營業利益率為 41%，比前一年提高了 60 個基點。稀釋每股盈餘和調整後稀釋每股盈餘均成長 10%，分別達到 2.24 美元和 2.23 美元。

I'll take you through a quick overview of the company's financial position. As you all know, we maintain a strong financial position with high-quality cash flows and earnings. Our balance for cash, restricted cash and total corporate investments was more than $1.4 billion, and our total borrowings were approximately $812 million as of the end of November.

我將帶您快速了解公司的財務狀況。眾所周知，我們保持著強勁的財務狀況，擁有高品質的現金流和收益。截至 11 月底，我們的現金、限制性現金和企業投資總額餘額超過 14 億美元，借款總額約為 8.12 億美元。

Cash flow for operations for the first 6 months of the year were $1 billion, and that's up 40% compared to the same period last year. This was primarily driven by higher net income and fluctuations in working capital. Do want to call out, similar to last quarter, there are some timing differences there based on where the quarter ended, ended on a collection date that's driving higher operating cash flows. That's why you see the 40% level. That will moderate as we move through the year.

今年前6個月的營運現金流為10億美元，比去年同期成長40%。這主要是由於淨利潤增加和營運資本波動所致。確實想指出，與上季類似，根據季度結束的時間和收款日期的不同，存在一些時間差異，這推動了更高的營運現金流。這就是為什麼您會看到 40% 的水平。隨著這一年的推移，這種情況將會有所緩和。

We returned a total of $811 million to shareholders during the first 6 months. That includes $642 million of dividends and $169 million of share repurchases. And our 12-month rolling return on equity remained strong at 47%.

前 6 個月，我們總共向股東返還 8.11 億美元。其中包括 6.42 億美元的股息和 1.69 億美元的股票回購。我們的 12 個月滾動股本回報率仍保持在 47% 的強勁水準。

I'll now turn to our guidance for the fiscal year ended May 31, 2024. We've raised guidance on certain measures based on performance this past quarter. For other measures, I will also provide some color on where we now expect to be within the ranges, and certainly, we can provide some more detail when we get to the Q&A.

現在我將談談我們對截至 2024 年 5 月 31 日的財年的指導。我們根據上個季度的業績提高了對某些措施的指導。對於其他措施，我還將提供一些關於我們現在期望在範圍內的位置的顏色，當然，當我們進行問答時，我們可以提供更多細節。

The outlook assumes the current macro and competitive environment, which has some uncertainty, particularly as it relates to future interest rate changes in the economy. So our current outlook is as follows: Management Solutions is unchanged, with growth in the range of 5% to 6%, although we do anticipate it will now be at the low end of the range. PEO and Insurance Solutions is now expected to grow in the range of 7% to 9%, that's up from our previous guidance, which was 6% to 9% expectation. Interest on funds held for clients has not changed. We still expect that to be in the range of $140 million to $150 million. Total revenue is expected to grow in the range of 6% to 7%, but we now expect it to be more in the middle of the range. I know last quarter, we thought that might be a bit stronger. We now expect the total revenue guidance to be more aligned with our original guidance of 6% to 7%.

該前景假設當前的宏觀和競爭環境存在一定的不確定性，特別是因為它與經濟未來的利率變化有關。因此，我們目前的展望如下：管理解決方案保持不變，成長在 5% 至 6% 範圍內，儘管我們確實預計它現在將處於該範圍的低端。 PEO 和保險解決方案目前預計將成長 7% 至 9%，高於我們先前的指導（6% 至 9% 的預期）。為客戶持有的資金利息沒有改變。我們仍然預計該金額將在 1.4 億至 1.5 億美元之間。總收入預計將成長 6% 至 7%，但我們現在預計成長幅度將在該範圍的中間。我知道上個季度，我們認為這可能會更強勁一些。我們現在預計總收入指引將與我們最初的 6% 至 7% 指導更加一致。

Operating income margin is expected to be in the range of 41% to 42%, although we now anticipate that we'll probably be towards the upper end of that range. Other income net is expected to be income in the range of $35 million to $40 million, and that's raised from our previous guidance of $30 million to $35 million. No change to the effective income tax rate. We still expect that to be between 24% and 25%. And then adjusted diluted earnings per share is now expected to grow in the range of 10% to 11%. So we raised that last quarter to 9% to 11%, just based on what we're seeing, we expect that to be a bit stronger, and we're raising that guidance to 10% to 11%.

營業利潤率預計在 41% 至 42% 之間，儘管我們現在預計我們可能會接近該範圍的上限。其他收入淨額預計為 3,500 萬美元至 4,000 萬美元，高於我們先前指導的 3,000 萬美元至 3,500 萬美元。有效所得稅率沒有變動。我們仍然預計該比例將在 24% 至 25% 之間。然後調整後的稀釋每股盈餘目前預計將成長10%至11%。因此，我們將上一季的指導值提高到9% 到11%，根據我們所看到的情況，我們預計這一數字會更強一些，並且我們將這一指導值提高到10% 到11% 。

Now I'm going to turn to the third quarter to give you a little color on the third quarter. We are currently anticipating total revenue growth for the third quarter to be in the range of 5% to 6% and operating margins to be in the range of 44% to 45%. As it stands right now, we would expect to pretty much be right in the middle of those two ranges.

現在我將轉向第三季度，為您提供有關第三季度的一些資訊。我們目前預計第三季總營收成長將在 5% 至 6% 之間，營業利潤率將在 44% 至 45% 之間。就目前情況而言，我們預計幾乎處於這兩個範圍的中間。

And I'd like to remind everyone that we've talked about this in the past, that ERTC becomes a headwind in the back half of the year. If I go back and look over the last 2.5 years that we've been selling ERTC, Q3 of last year was the largest quarter that we had with ERTC. And so that's a bit more of a headwind in Q3 than Q4, but will be a headwind in the back half of the year.

我想提醒大家，我們過去已經討論過這一點，ERTC 會成為今年下半年的阻力。如果我回顧過去 2.5 年我們銷售 ERTC 的情況，去年第三季是我們銷售 ERTC 的最大季度。因此，第三季的阻力比第四季大一些，但在今年下半年將是一個阻力。

Of course, all of this is based on our current assumptions, which are subject to change. We'll come back and update you again on the third quarter call. As I mentioned, our investor slides are posted on the website, so I'll refer you there for additional information. And with that, I will turn it back over to John.

當然，所有這些都是基於我們當前的假設，這些假設可能會改變。我們將在第三季的電話會議上再次向您通報最新情況。正如我所提到的，我們的投資者幻燈片發佈在網站上，因此我將向您推薦該網站以獲取更多資訊。有了這個，我會把它轉回給約翰。

Okay. Thank you, Bob. We will now open it up -- the call for questions. Chelsea?

好的。謝謝你，鮑伯。我們現在將打開它——提問。切爾西？

(Operator Instructions) And our first question will come from Kevin McVeigh with UBS.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題將來自瑞銀集團的 Kevin McVeigh。

And congratulations as you close out the year. John, Bob and I want to thank Efrain, because I think this is the last quarter Efrain will be on the call, too.

恭喜您結束這一年。約翰、鮑伯和我要感謝 Efrain，因為我認為這是 Efrain 也將參加電話會議的最後一個季度。

So John or Bob, I think you talked about revenue retention at record levels and client retention improving. Can you maybe dimensionalize that a little bit? And -- because it feels like that's getting a little bit better, but the revenue may be more the middle of the range. So what's driving the improvement? And then kind of maybe just the tweak on the revenue expectations overall?

約翰或鮑勃，我認為你們談到了創紀錄水平的收入保留和客戶保留率的提高。你能稍微把它維度化一下嗎？而且——因為感覺情況有所好轉，但收入可能更處於中間範圍。那麼是什麼推動了這種改進呢？然後也許只是對整體收入預期進行調整？

Yes. Kevin, I'll start off on retention, and we can talk a little bit about the revenue expectations. Bob will add some color on that, and then I'll jump in.

是的。凱文，我將從保留率開始，我們可以談談收入預期。鮑伯會在上面加上一些顏色，然後我會介入。

Look, we continue to be very pleased with where we are on revenue retention. I think as we've continually talked about, we've really been highly focused on having an impact in those critical areas where it counts, and that's our high-value segments, and that's what we've seen.

看，我們對收入保留的情況仍然非常滿意。我認為，正如我們不斷談論的那樣，我們確實非常注重在那些重要的關鍵領域產生影響，這就是我們的高價值細分市場，這就是我們所看到的。

Our HR outsourcing business, both ASO and PEO, record levels of retention, and we're very pleased with that. Client retention across the business was actually better in the first half of this fiscal year than it was last fiscal year, and that's really attributable to the team's great job of really managing the controllables.

我們的人力資源外包業務（包括 ASO 和 PEO）的保留率都達到了創紀錄的水平，我們對此感到非常滿意。本財年上半年，整個業務的客戶保留率實際上比上財年要好，這實際上要歸功於團隊在真正管理可控因素方面所做的出色工作。

We're continuing to see on the lower end of the market, bankruptcies out of businesses and noncontrollable losses being higher year-over-year. That's not surprising to me when you see the level of business starts that we've seen during the COVID period really at elevated levels. And we just know a lot of those small companies that start out 2 years ago, most of those have trouble financially.

我們繼續看到，在低端市場，企業破產和不可控制損失逐年增加。當你看到我們在新冠疫情期間看到的業務開工水平確實處於較高水平時，這對我來說並不奇怪。我們只知道很多兩年前成立的小公司，其中大多數都遇到了財務困難。

And so overall, revenue retention continues to be at pre-pandemic levels, which I would remind you, was at near historic highs for the company.

因此，總體而言，收入保留率繼續保持在大流行前的水平，我想提醒您的是，該公司接近歷史高點。

Yes, Kevin, I'll just add on the guide. As you guys remember, at the end of Q1, I think where we ended the quarter, we had said we expected to be towards the high end of the range. I think there were a couple of reasons at that time why we felt confident in saying that. I would say, one, the positive trends that we were seeing in the PEO business, I think we wanted to wait another quarter before we raised the PEO guidance. But we definitely saw some positive trends really going back to the end of last year. That continued into Q1. I'd say that gave us a little bit of confidence.

是的，凱文，我將添加指南。你們還記得，在第一季末，我認為我們在本季結束時曾說過，我們預計將達到該範圍的高端。我認為當時我們有信心這麼說有幾個原因。我想說，第一，我們在 PEO 業務中看到的積極趨勢，我認為我們想再等一個季度，然後再提高 PEO 指導。但我們確實看到了一些積極的趨勢，可以追溯到去年年底。這種情況一直持續到第一季。我想說這給了我們一點信心。

And as you guys know, we did do a small acquisition at the end of Q1. Not a big contributor to growth, but I think those two things combined really gave us a bit of confidence that we thought we might be towards the upper end of the range. I'd say as we got through Q2, the one thing that I'll highlight -- I think John made reference to it -- although we didn't have big growth assumptions in the plan related to employment growth, particularly in our larger employee sizes across both Management Solutions and the PEO, we typically get some seasonal hiring. We expected to see some growth there. That didn't materialize to the level that we expected and certainly what we've seen in the past. And so that's given us a little bit of pause.

正如你們所知，我們確實在第一季末進行了一次小型收購。對成長的貢獻不大，但我認為這兩件事結合起來確實給了我們一點信心，我們認為我們可能會達到該範圍的上限。我想說，當我們完成第二季時，我要強調的一件事——我認為約翰提到了這一點——儘管我們在與就業成長相關的計劃中沒有大的成長假設，特別是在我們更大的經濟體中。管理解決方案和 PEO 的員工規模，我們通常會進行一些季節性招聘。我們預計那裡會出現一些增長。這並沒有達到我們預期的水平，當然也沒有達到我們過去所看到的水平。這讓我們暫停了一下。

And as I mentioned, that was across both categories, Management Solutions, and PEO, insurance. The PEO insurance for the most part, they've been able to outrun that, I would say, just given the strength of the business. John talked about the strong demand there. And some of the action plans that we've taken have really paid off there. But on the Management Solutions side, it's been a little bit of a headwind. And that's kind of what you see in the quarter as well as kind of the fine-tuning of the guidance range that I just provided.

正如我所提到的，這涉及管理解決方案和 PEO、保險這兩個類別。我想說，PEO 保險在很大程度上能夠超越這一點，只是考慮到業務的實力。約翰談到了那裡的強勁需求。我們採取的一些行動計劃確實得到了回報。但在管理解決方案方面，這有點不利。這就是您在本季度看到的情況，也是我剛剛提供的指導範圍的微調。

Our next question will come from Andrew Nicholas with William Blair.

我們的下一個問題將由安德魯·尼古拉斯和威廉·布萊爾提出。

Really strong quarter on the PEO front. I wanted to ask about pricing dynamics there. And in health insurance, more specifically, we've heard from some competitors within the space that there are certain players that are being more aggressive on the health side during this year's renewal cycle. I'm just kind of wondering if you've seen that, how Paychex is navigating that environment, stacking up in terms of rate increases relative to those peers? And maybe just how you're faring broadly on the pricing side?

PEO 的季度表現非常強勁。我想詢問那裡的定價動態。更具體地說，在健康保險領域，我們從該領域的一些競爭對手那裡聽說，在今年的續保週期中，某些參與者在健康方面更加積極主動。我只是想知道您是否已經看到，Paychex 是如何駕馭這種環境的，以及相對於同行的費率增長情況如何？也許你們在定價方面的表現如何？

Yes. So thanks for the question, Andrew. I'll say this. The PEO, you can tell by the growth numbers continued to improve as the year has gone on. And I would tell you that our pipeline is very strong in comparison to last year. So whatever the competitors are doing, our value proposition is resonating. I can assure you that we're not using cheap health as a [vast] part of the value proposition.

是的。謝謝你的提問，安德魯。我就這麼說吧。隨著時間的推移，PEO 的成長數字持續改善。我想告訴你，與去年相比，我們的管道非常強大。因此，無論競爭對手在做什麼，我們的價值主張都會引起共鳴。我可以向您保證，我們不會將廉價醫療作為價值主張的[很大]一部分。

So we go at it more as a comprehensive HR outsourcing value proposition. And if clients are looking for cheap health, they're probably -- we're probably not engaging in that conversation very long. We have the capability, as you know, to also leverage our insurance agency within our PEO as well. But very pleased with where we are on the -- with the PEO right now, very strong performance. The pipeline is solid. We are in the final stages, as you can imagine. That in the mid-market, as you know, typically, the selling season as much earlier, it's pretty much in the final innings. And both pipelines, I would say for the PEO, are very, very strong, both in terms of insurance attachment and in terms of sales.

因此，我們更將其視為全面的人力資源外包價值主張。如果客戶正在尋找廉價的醫療服務，他們可能會——我們可能不會參與這種對話很長時間。如您所知，我們也有能力在我們的 PEO 內利用我們的保險機構。但我們對 PEO 目前的表現非常滿意，表現非常出色。管道牢固。正如你可以想像的那樣，我們正處於最後階段。如你所知，在中端市場，通常銷售季節會更早，幾乎是在最後一局。對於 PEO，我想說，這兩個管道都非常非常強大，無論是在保險附加方面還是在銷售方面。

Great. And if you don't mind, just a follow-up on ERTC. It sounds like that's trending towards your expectation that the comp in the fiscal third quarter is a bit tougher. Just wanted to confirm that. And then also, it looks like the IRS has taken a stance with respect to ERTC and potentially making PEOs liable for that. Just wondering if that presents any risk or how you're kind of thinking about that dynamic in that part of the business?

偉大的。如果您不介意，請看 ERTC 的後續報導。聽起來這正符合您的預期，即第三財季的競爭會更加艱難。只是想確認一下。此外，美國國稅局 (IRS) 似乎已對 ERTC 採取了立場，並可能讓 PEO 對此承擔責任。只是想知道這是否會帶來任何風險，或者您如何看待這部分業務的動態？

Yes. I'll start on just kind of the financials. I'd say, for the most part, ERTC, we finally got it right from a forecasting standpoint after 3 years. It's been a little challenging to forecast that. But for the most part, it has lined up with our expectation. Most of that was assumed to be in the front half of the year. That's behind us.

是的。我將從財務方面開始。我想說，在很大程度上，ERTC，三年後我們終於從預測的角度得到了正確的結果。預測這一點有點具有挑戰性。但在很大程度上，它符合我們的期望。其中大部分預計發生在今年上半年。那是在我們身後。

There still is a little bit in the back half of the year. But for the most part, it has lined up. I've gotten this question a lot. I promised to provide an update on ERTC. So I'm going to stick to my word, which was essentially, we had said prior that we expected it to be a slight tailwind in the front half of the year. That's where the front half landed. It was a slight tailwind. We expected it to be a headwind in the back half of the year. It will be a headwind in the back half of the year.

下半年還有一點時間。但大多數情況下，它已經排隊了。我已經被問過很多次這個問題了。我承諾提供 ERTC 的最新資訊。因此，我將堅持我的諾言，這本質上是我們之前所說的，我們預計今年上半年會出現輕微的順風。這就是前半部落地的地方。這是一個輕微的順風。我們預計這將成為今年下半年的逆風。這將是今年下半年的逆風。

But I wanted to provide a little bit more color, and you guys can kind of do the math and back into it. But on a full year basis, with the tailwind in the front half and the headwind in the back half, we would expect it to be about a 1% headwind on a full year basis to growth. And then I don't know, John, do you want to address the PEO?

但我想提供更多一點的色彩，你們可以做一下數學計算然後再回顧一下。但從全年來看，由於上半年順風，下半年逆風，我們預期全年成長的逆風約為1%。我不知道約翰，你想對 PEO 說話嗎？

Yes. Yes. I think relative to your question on the PEO and ERTC and the IRS, it stands on it. I would say the IRS has been trying to look for bad actors in both parts of that equation and tighten rules. As you can imagine, we've been very diligent with our compliance teams and setting up our process. In fact, we were a little slower going out on the ERTC product in the PEO because we wanted to work through all of those compliance and the way we approach the contracting with our clients for that services. So I would tell you, Andrew, we feel very good about our position and where we are in terms of managing that risk.

是的。是的。我認為相對於你關於 PEO、ERTC 和 IRS 的問題，它是正確的。我想說的是，美國國稅局一直在努力尋找這兩個方面的不良行為者並收緊規則。正如您可以想像的那樣，我們一直非常努力地與我們的合規團隊合作並建立我們的流程。事實上，我們在 PEO 中推出 ERTC 產品的速度有點慢，因為我們希望解決所有這些合規性問題以及我們與客戶就該服務簽訂合約的方式。所以我想告訴你，安德魯，我們對我們的處境以及我們在管理風險方面的進展感到非常滿意。

Our next question will come from Ramsey El-Assal with Barclays.

我們的下一個問題將來自巴克萊銀行的拉姆齊·阿薩爾。

I had a follow-up on ERTC. It strikes me that there's a kind of a backlog building, right, as they paused processing. So is this the type of thing that we should think about? Yes, it's a headwind in the back half of the year. But eventually, as the IRS begins processing again, that revenue might start to flow again in the future. Is it sort of more of a shift of revenue into the future? And I know it's complicated and they're rolling in some deadlines in '24 -- calendar '24. So I was just curious how we should -- how you're thinking about that ERTC revenue, not just for the following quarters, but maybe a little bit beyond that?

我對 ERTC 進行了跟進。讓我驚訝的是，當他們暫停處理時，有一種積壓的情況，對吧。那麼這是我們應該考慮的事情嗎？是的，這是下半年的逆風。但最終，隨著國稅局再次開始處理，這些收入可能會在未來再次開始流動。這更像是將收入轉移到未來嗎？我知道這很複雜，他們在 24 年曆上規定了一些最後期限。所以我只是好奇我們應該如何考慮 ERTC 的收入，不僅是接下來幾季的收入，還可能是超出這個收入的一點？

Yes. Not really, Randy, because what we're basically doing is we're amending the returns and filing the submissions for our clients, which the IRS continues to accept. And so we're recognizing the revenue. And as we do that and they're still accepting submissions. So there's really not a timing shift there. The change that the IRS made at the end of Q1 really has impacted our ability to continue to go into our base and sell it, really hasn't impacted our forecast from a revenue standpoint.

是的。蘭迪，不完全是這樣，因為我們基本上所做的是修改申報表並為我們的客戶提交提交的材料，國稅局繼續接受這些內容。所以我們正在確認收入。當我們這樣做時，他們仍在接受提交。所以那裡確實沒有時間轉變。美國國稅局在第一季末做出的改變確實影響了我們繼續進入我們的基地並出售它的能力，但從收入的角度來看，實際上並沒有影響我們的預測。

The big difference is that you have the deadline, you're approaching a deadline here at the end of this fiscal year. And we're 3 years into it. And we've been through our base and really have identified all the clients that are qualified for the opportunity. We've talked to them. And if we haven't talked to them, you can turn on the radio Everyone else has talked to them. So it's just, "Hey, we're 3 years into it." And I think most small businesses that qualified for this benefit have taken advantage of the opportunity. And there may be some a little bit that flows into next year, but nothing of significance. I'm hoping at some point in time, I can stop talking about ERTC, but there's really no timing shift there related to what the IRS did.

最大的區別是你有最後期限，你即將在本財政年度結束時接近最後期限。我們已經投入三年了。我們已經通過我們的基地並真正確定了所有有資格獲得該機會的客戶。我們已經和他們談過了。如果我們還沒有與他們交談過，您可以打開收音機 其他人都與他們交談過。所以只是，“嘿，我們已經做了三年了。”我認為大多數有資格享受這項福利的小企業都利用了這個機會。可能會有一些流入明年，但沒有什麼意義。我希望在某個時間點，我可以停止談論 ERTC，但實際上與 IRS 所做的事情沒有任何時間上的轉變。

Great. That's very helpful. And a follow-up, SECURE Act 2.0, is that in any of your conversations in the selling season, give us kind of your latest view about how that opportunity is framing up for Paychex?

偉大的。這非常有幫助。後續的「安全法案 2.0」是指，在銷售季節的任何對話中，請向我們介紹您對 Paychex 的機會如何構建的最新看法？

Yes. I think we highlighted and mentioned, first half 401(k), a very solid continued performance. So we're very pleased with that offering. I think as you know, we probably go out to the market with the most comprehensive retirement offerings for small businesses, anywhere from simple IRAs to our step plans that we are one of the largest providers, if not the largest provider of pet plans.

是的。我認為我們強調並提到了上半場 401(k)，這是非常穩定的持續表現。所以我們對這個產品非常滿意。我認為如您所知，我們可能會為小型企業提供最全面的退休產品，從簡單的 IRA 到我們的階梯計劃，我們即使不是最大的寵物計劃提供商，也是最大的提供者之一。

So very pleased with that. It is part of our selling season campaign. I think, as I said, one of the things we've learned a lot about the retirement business from some of the state mandates, I continue to try to pound this in, is this is one of the things you still have a lot of education to do, for the small business owner. Even though there's a lot of benefits to it, there are costs involved, there's compliance issues. And so this is not something that people just sign up for. So there's a lot of education and pre-marketing that has to be done, but we're certainly leveraging the SECURE Act as a means to entice clients into a conversation and are finding it successful once we do and getting them to understand the benefits of our offerings.

對此非常滿意。這是我們銷售季節活動的一部分。我認為，正如我所說，我們從一些州的強制規定中學到了很多關於退休業務的事情之一，我繼續嘗試著深入研究，這是您仍然有很多事情之一為小企業主提供教育。儘管它有很多好處，但也涉及成本和合規問題。因此，這不是人們只需註冊即可獲得的東西。因此，有大量的教育和行銷前工作要做，但我們肯定會利用《安全法案》作為吸引客戶參與對話的一種手段，一旦我們這樣做，我們就會發現它是成功的，並讓他們了解了這樣做的好處我們的產品。

Our next question will come from Bryan Bergin with TD Cowen.

我們的下一個問題將由 Bryan Bergin 和 TD Cowen 提出。

So I wanted to start on Management Solutions. The light seasonal hiring that you've called out here that drives the weaker view, can you just dig in more on that client profile? And is this more so a pullback in demand for employees or issues in the hiring? So I'm curious what you might be seeing as it relates to clients' talent acquisition funnels and job openings, background checks, things like that.

所以我想從管理解決方案開始。您在這裡所說的淡季招募導致了較弱的觀點，您能否進一步深入了解該客戶資料？這更多的是員工需求的下降還是招募中的問題？所以我很好奇你可能會看到什麼，因為它與客戶的人才獲取管道、職缺、背景調查等相關。

Yes, Bryan. It's a good -- that's a very good question, very insightful question because we're trying to get under that as well. Here's what I'll tell you. It is a very challenging environment for small and midsized businesses. I think they are still challenged, and we're seeing it in our HR advising, they're still challenged with a very challenging labor market in terms of finding qualified workers. I always leave it at that. So I think that's certainly part of the issue.

是的，布萊恩。這是一個很好的問題，非常有洞察力的問題，因為我們也在努力解決這個問題。這就是我要告訴你的。對於中小企業來說，這是一個非常具有挑戰性的環境。我認為他們仍然面臨挑戰，我們在人力資源建議中看到了這一點，在尋找合格工人方面，他們仍然面臨著非常具有挑戰性的勞動力市場的挑戰。我總是這樣。所以我認為這肯定是問題的一部分。

I think they're -- certainly with the high cost of capital, also with lower access to capital, I think they're being very cautious about investing for growth. So they're trying to figure out how do I do more for less. So there may be a little bit of a hesitancy. At the same time, while we hear our people want to hire qualified people. And I think they had some experience, a little small group that I was talking to where what they found was they were paying higher rates for less qualified people. And then our HR matters that we were dealing with, disciplinary issues, no shows, all these types of issues, I think a lot of business owners are saying, if I can't hire a qualified person, I may be better off to try to figure out how I can use the people I have to get there.

我認為他們——當然資本成本很高，而且獲得資本的機會也較少，我認為他們對成長投資非常謹慎。所以他們試圖找出我如何花更少的錢做更多的事情。所以可能會有一點猶豫。同時，我們聽說我們的員工想要雇用合格的人才。我認為他們有一些經驗，我正在與一小群人交談，他們發現他們為不太合格的人支付了更高的費用。然後我們正在處理的人力資源問題，紀律問題，缺席，所有這些類型的問題，我想很多企業主都在說，如果我不能僱用合格的人，我可能最好嘗試一下弄清楚如何利用我所擁有的人員來實現這個目標。

So I just -- I read that as a macro environment because we're not seeing anything in our data that would say mass downsizings or reductions. That's not what we're seeing. I think in the higher-end enterprise side, you are seeing rightsizing going on in the business. When you get into the mid-market, really, what we're seeing is a little more choppiness in hiring across various industries. And particularly, it's mostly upmarket and what I would say where we've typically seen seasonal hiring. That's where we did not see that at the rates that we historically have seen.

所以我只是將其視為宏觀環境，因為我們在數據中沒有看到任何表明大規模裁員或裁員的資訊。這不是我們所看到的。我認為在高端企業方面，您會看到業務正在進行規模調整。事實上，當你進入中階市場時，我們看到的是各行業的招募更加不穩定。特別是，它主要是高端市場，我想說的是我們通常會看到季節性招聘。這就是我們沒有以歷史上看到的速度看到這一點的地方。

Now what's interesting about that, I'll point out, is when you see that -- when I see the impressive results of our PEO team -- remember, a lot of our PEO clients are in Florida, which, as you can imagine, is a pretty seasonal state this time of year. So the growth numbers you're seeing there were -- with a headwind of not having as much seasonal hiring. We saw the similar thing in our ASO business, which is in Managed Solutions and to a lesser extent, in our HCM mid-market business. So I would say more choppiness there.

現在，有趣的是，我要指出的是，當你看到這一點時——當我看到我們的PEO 團隊令人印象深刻的成果時——請記住，我們的許多PEO 客戶都在佛羅裡達州，正如你可以想像的那樣，每年的這個時候是一個非常季節性的州。因此，你看到的成長數字是存在的，但季節性招募的不利因素並不多。我們在 ASO 業務（託管解決方案）以及 HCM 中端市場業務（較小程度）中看到了類似的情況。所以我想說那裡更加不穩定。

In the small market, it's more of the same moderation that you see in our index, really not what I would say downsizing or clients taking actions from an employment perspective, but more of either they can't find people to fill the spots they want or they're being hesitant on adding additional headcount at this time. So I don't know if that gives you some additional color.

在小市場中，更多的是你在我們的指數中看到的那種適度，實際上不是我所說的裁員或客戶從就業角度採取行動，但更多的是他們找不到人來填補他們想要的職位或他們此時正在猶豫是否要增加額外的員工人數。所以我不知道這是否會給你一些額外的色彩。

Bryan, I just want to add a little bit. You didn't specifically ask this, but just as your comment as it relates to weaker Management Solutions. The other part of that beyond the softer hiring versus what we expected, the other part of that has to do with the strong performance in PEO as well. We talked to you guys about the PEO business. We've had a lot of questions on that and our ability to kind of reaccelerate growth there.

布萊恩，我只想補充一點。您沒有具體詢問這一點，但正如您的評論涉及較弱的管理解決方案一樣。除了招募相對我們預期的疲軟之外，另一部分也與 PEO 的強勁表​​現有關。我們和你們討論了 PEO 業務。我們對此以及我們重新加速成長的能力有很多疑問。

And one of the strategies there was that we knew the ASO was really strong last year. We had put a plan together to really go back inside of the base, leverage our data, leverage our AI models, really look at the clients that we thought would be good PEO fits. And we've been executing on that plan over the last 6 months, and that has actually been a little bit better than what we anticipated.

其中一個策略是我們知道 ASO 去年非常強大。我們制定了一項計劃，真正回到基地內部，利用我們的數據，利用我們的人工智慧模型，真正了解我們認為適合 PEO 的客戶。過去 6 個月我們一直在執行該計劃，實際上比我們的預期要好一些。

So now the pendulum has swung back a little bit the other way. We probably should just put these two businesses together in one category. It would make my -- and John's job much easier. But we've had a lot of success with PEO. I think that's why you see the rate there. And that is impacting to some extent, to use your word, the little bit weaker performance in Management Solutions.

所以現在鐘擺已經往另一個方向擺動了一點。我們或許應該將這兩項業務歸為一類。這將使我和約翰的工作變得更輕鬆。但我們在 PEO 方面取得了很大的成功。我想這就是為什麼你會看到那裡的匯率。用你的話來說，這在某種程度上影響了管理解決方案的效能稍弱。

Okay. That's all helpful color. And I fully understand the ASO versus kind of PEO shift there. And maybe just a follow-up here on the PEO. Can you just dig in a bit more around the expectations of at-risk health insurance attachment participation rates as you go towards the 1/1 go-live period? And specifically, did PEO bookings accelerate in the quarter relative to last quarter?

好的。這都是有用的顏色。我完全理解 ASO 與 PEO 的轉變。也許只是 PEO 的後續行動。在 1/1 上線期間，您能否進一步深入了解高風險健康保險附加參與率的預期？具體來說，本季 PEO 預訂量是否較上季增加？

Well, let me take the last one first. Yes, I would tell you that -- we talked about the PEO in the fourth quarter of the last fiscal year. We told you about many of the changes we were making across that business. We began to see acceleration there. It accelerated further in the first quarter, and it continued in the second quarter. And it continued both outside the base as well as inside the base. So as Bob pointed out, this ASO to PEO conversion. So we've seen a very healthy pipeline. And I would say not only in the PEO, also in our mid-market.

好吧，我先來說最後一個。是的，我會告訴你——我們在上一財年第四季討論了 PEO。我們向您介紹了我們在該業務中所做的許多改變。我們開始看到那裡的加速發展。一季進一步加速，第二季持續加速。而且無論是在基地外還是在基地內，它都在繼續。正如 Bob 指出的，ASO 到 PEO 的轉換。所以我們看到了一個非常健康的管道。我想說，不僅在 PEO，也在我們的中端市場。

So when you look at the two businesses, that are -- that -- in summary, if you -- if we're sitting here today in the selling season in our mid-market HCM and PEO, they're well underway. They're really in the final stages. Our pipeline was very strong. And then the enrollment of the insurance, it was very strong as well.

因此，當你審視這兩項業務時，總而言之，如果我們今天坐在這裡，正處於中端市場 HCM 和 PEO 的銷售季節，它們正在順利進行。他們確實處於最後階段。我們的管道非常強大。然後保險的加入，也非常強勁。

I would tell you that we're getting back in line to where we've been historically. If you remember, we had a little degradation. And actually, what we saw inside the existing customer base was an increase, I would say, maybe single-digit increase in penetration similar to last year. We had some employees in it sign up for plans. We did some things on changing our plan lineup. We did some things in the way we're doing education and open enrollment there. And the team has done a great job of improving our attach rate within the existing client base as well during this enrollment.

我想告訴你，我們正在回到歷史的狀態。如果你還記得的話，我們有一點退化。實際上，我們在現有客戶群中看到的是滲透率的成長，我想說，滲透率可能與去年類似，呈現個位數成長。我們有一些員工簽署了計劃。我們做了一些改變計劃陣容的事情。我們在教育和開放招生方面做了一些事情。在本次註冊期間，團隊在提高現有客戶群的附加率方面也做得非常出色。

Our next question comes from Jason Kupferberg with Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Jason Kupferberg。

I wanted to ask a follow-up just on Management Solutions. I mean, I know we're talking about the lower end of the 5% to 6% for the year. So you basically need to maintain the 5% growth rate that you saw in the first half, in the second half, despite the fact you're lapping ERTC and it sounds like maybe the tone on overall health of SMBs is downticking a little bit.

我想問有關管理解決方案的後續問題。我的意思是，我知道我們談論的是今年 5% 至 6% 的下限。因此，你基本上需要維持上半年和下半年看到的 5% 的成長率，儘管事實上你正在超越 ERTC，而且聽起來中小企業整體健康狀況的基調可能有點下降。

So just wanted to get your perspective on the visibility of Paychex's ability to maintain that 5% growth in the second half given some of those moving parts out there?

因此，我只是想了解一下您對 Paychex 在下半年保持 5% 成長的能力的看法，因為其中存在一些變動因素？

Yes. I mean, I can start and then John can add on. I mean, obviously, there is the headwind there with ERTC, but there's other areas of the business. And although ASO, we had some of the hiring challenges that John referenced as well as better PEO performance, ASO still continues to be a strong contributor to growth, and we expect that to continue to be the case in the back half of the year.

是的。我的意思是，我可以開始，然後約翰可以補充。我的意思是，很明顯，ERTC 存在逆風，但還有其他業務領域。儘管 ASO 我們遇到了約翰提到的一些招募挑戰以及更好的 PEO 績效，但 ASO 仍然是成長的強大貢獻者，我們預計今年下半年將繼續如此。

We talked about retirement. That has been a really strong driver of growth for us and just really increased product penetration. We expect that to continue into the back half of the year, Jason. That will offset, to some extent, some of the ERTC headwind. And again, we did do a small acquisition. It's not a huge contributor to growth on -- on a full year basis. But again, that will help mitigate some of that headwind as we move into the back half of the year. And when we kind of put all those things together, we would expect Management Solutions to be in a similar growth rate in the back half of the year than the first half -- or same as the first half.

我們談論了退休的事情。這對我們來說是一個非常強大的成長動力，並且確實提高了產品滲透率。傑森，我們預計這種情況將持續到今年下半年。這將在一定程度上抵消 ERTC 的一些不利影響。再說一次，我們確實進行了一次小型收購。從全年來看，這並不是對成長的巨大貢獻。但同樣，當我們進入今年下半年時，這將有助於減輕一些不利因素。當我們把所有這些事情放在一起時，我們預計管理解決方案在今年下半年的成長率將與上半年相似，或與上半年相同。

Yes. Jason, I just think the other thing I would add on commentary, relative to the SMB market, we're not even in really the key selling season. So we're just in the selling season. That's just beginning to -- to kick off, and we have a lot of execution during January, as you know, to go out in the marketplace. So that's just starting.

是的。傑森，我只是認為我要在評論中補充的另一件事是，相對於中小企業市場，我們甚至還沒有處於真正的關鍵銷售季節。所以我們正處於銷售季節。這才剛開始，如你所知，我們在一月有很多執行工作要進入市場。所以這才剛開始。

So the areas where we are nearly complete with the selling season, the mid-market, the PEO, the high end of ASO, those pipelines are full, much better than last year. And really in that small market, we're just beginning to enter the selling season with a lot of execution to go in the next 60 days.

因此，我們銷售季節即將結束的領域、中階市場、PEO、ASO 高端，這些管道都已滿，比去年好得多。事實上，在這個小市場中，我們剛開始進入銷售季節，在接下來的 60 天內將有大量的執行工作。

Okay. That's good color. I know you talked about how you're thinking about overall revenue growth for Q3 versus Q4, but can you just parse out maybe your segment level growth expectations for Q3 versus Q4, just so we get our models tuned properly? Thank you, guys. Have a great holiday.

好的。這顏色真好啊我知道您談到了您如何看待第三季度與第四季度的整體收入增長，但是您能否分析一下您對第三季度與第四季度的細分水平增長預期，以便我們正確調整模型？感謝你們。祝你假期愉快。

Yes, I'm just -- I'm taking a look at that, Jason. Obviously, the Management Solutions will probably be a bit lower in Q3 than Q4 because of the -- the headwinds that we talked about being greater with ERTC in Q3. And then the PEO in insurance, those growth rates are going to be similar to where they were in Q2. And hopefully, when you look at the full year guidance, the guide that I gave you on Q3, you can kind of do the math and should get you close.

是的，我只是——我正在看這個，傑森。顯然，第三季的管理解決方案可能會比第四季低一些，因為我們談到的 ERTC 在第三季面臨的阻力更大。然後是保險領域的 PEO，這些成長率將與第二季度相似。希望當您查看全年指導（我在第三季度為您提供的指南）時，您可以進行數學計算，並且應該讓您接近。

Yes. The other thing, Jay, I just think, again, on color of this -- Bob said that this geography shifting that we have going over last year counter rotated the ASO from the PEO offering when we're offering both. There's more movement that way. So we're talking geography. Now we're talking the geography move from Management Solutions to PEO insurance because it's tilted kind of the other way.

是的。另一件事，傑伊，我只是想，再一次，關於這一點——鮑勃說，我們去年經歷的這種地理變化，當我們提供兩者時，ASO 與 PEO 的產品反向旋轉。這樣就有更多的運動。所以我們正在談論地理。現在我們正在討論從管理解決方案到 PEO 保險的地理轉移，因為它有點向相反的方向傾斜。

The other thing that I would remind everybody, which is a little different on the ASO to PEO conversions. There's not a selling season for that. We do those migrations all year long. And so we continue to see good traction there, and we don't intend to slow that down. There's no reason to -- it's higher revenue, it's a higher lifetime value in our overall model. So again, just relative to forecasting between the two areas as well doing, Bob's got a model, he'll go through it with you. But the caveat I always have that I'll say that geography thing is if we can continue to move more of our clients from HCM and ASO to PEO in the back half of the year, we'll do that.

我要提醒大家的另一件事是，ASO 到 PEO 的轉換略有不同。沒有銷售季節。我們全年都在進行這些遷移。因此，我們繼續看到那裡的良好牽引力，並且我們不打算放慢速度。沒有理由這樣做——這是更高的收入，是我們整體模式中更高的生命週期價值。再說一次，就這兩個領域之間的預測而言，鮑伯有一個模型，他會和你一起完成它。但我始終要注意的是，地理問題是，如果我們能夠在今年下半年繼續將更多客戶從 HCM 和 ASO 轉移到 PEO，我們就會這麼做。

Our next question will come from Peter Christiansen with Citi.

我們的下一個問題將來自花旗銀行的彼得·克里斯蒂安森。

Thanks for the question. Nice execution here. John, Bob, I was just hoping if you could talk a little bit about balance of trade. Any trends that you're noticing, particularly in the Management Solutions area? And then -- and John, you also mentioned AI playing a part in the sales role. Just wondering if you could dig a little bit into that and give us a sense of where you're making headway on that front? Appreciate the commentary. Happy holidays.

謝謝你的提問。這裡執行得很好。約翰、鮑勃，我只是希望你們能談談貿易平衡問題。您注意到什麼趨勢，特別是在管理解決方案領域？然後，約翰，您還提到人工智慧在銷售角色中發揮了作用。只是想知道您是否可以深入研究一下，讓我們了解一下您在這方面取得的進展？欣賞評論。節日快樂。

Yes. Thank you very much. No, look, I think relative to across the platforms in the mid-market, very pleased with the growth we have there. We've talked about the PEO already, very happy with where we are there. As I look across the small business -- it's a competitive market. I wouldn't say there's any major changes. And I would say I've talked about on the last call, our balance of trade metrics continue to look solid. I always say we're entering the selling season, and the next 60 days is about -- is all about that, and it's a competitive market. So we'll see.

是的。非常感謝。不，我認為相對於中端市場的各個平台，我們對那裡的成長感到非常滿意。我們已經討論過 PEO，對我們所處的位置非常滿意。當我觀察小型企業時——這是一個競爭激烈的市場。我不會說有任何重大變化。我想說的是，我在上次電話會議上談過，我們的貿易平衡指標看起來仍然很穩健。我總是說我們正在進入銷售季節，接下來的 60 天就是這樣，這是一個競爭激烈的市場。所以我們拭目以待。

But as we sit here today, the known knowns -- very happy with our progress, upmarket in the mid-market HCM, very pleased with where we are on PEO, upper end of the ASO market. And then as I said, as we sit here today, I'm pleased with our balance of trade in the other areas. There was another question -- I missed something...

但當我們今天坐在這裡時，眾所周知 - 對我們在中端 HCM 市場的高端市場的進展非常滿意，對我們在 PEO（ASO 市場高端）的地位非常滿意。正如我所說，當我們今天坐在這裡時，我對我們在其他領域的貿易平衡感到滿意。還有一個問題——我錯過了一些東西…

On the AI front, I think you mentioned it.

在人工智慧方面，我想你提到過。

Oh, yes. I can't believe I passed up an opportunity to talk about AI. Look, AI is -- I will tell you, we've been doing a lot around this for decades. And now it's kind of out there in the public domain, but it's really quite amazing. So let's talk about on the sales side, we talk about on the PEO side. We're using it in our underwriting. We're using it in our targeting and we're using it in the mining of our base. The productivity lift that we get in terms of being able to understand where we can add value -- you're almost getting to the point where you almost like have a pre-proposal because you almost know the client is going to be -- is going to like what they see. So we're doing a lot of things there using AI models and our data models there.

哦是的。我不敢相信我錯過了談論人工智慧的機會。看，人工智慧——我會告訴你，幾十年來我們一直在這方面做很多事情。現在它已經進入了公共領域，但它確實非常令人驚奇。那麼讓我們來談談銷售方面，我們來談談PEO 方面。我們在承保中使用它。我們在定位中使用它，在基地採礦中使用它。透過了解我們可以在哪些方面增加價值，我們獲得的生產力提升——你幾乎已經達到了你幾乎喜歡有一個預先提案的地步，因為你幾乎知道客戶將會是——是會喜歡他們所看到的。因此，我們正在使用人工智慧模型和我們的資料模型在那裡做很多事情。

Doing a lot of this -- we talked a bit about pricing. And one of the things we now have is we have all of our major sales teams on one common platform in terms of proposal, proposal management and pricing management. And we're actually building AI models, started to use that in the mid-market that actually then gives our sales reps in real time based upon numerous factors, what price and what level of discounting we would allow for a particular client based upon the value of the client, based on the competitive set, et cetera. And that's actually allowing us to maximize both volume and rate. And we're going to continue to refine those models and expand those across the teams.

做了很多這樣的事情——我們討論了一些關於定價的問題。我們現在擁有的一件事是，我們所有的主要銷售團隊在提案、提案管理和定價管理方面都在一個通用平台上。我們實際上正在建立人工智慧模型，開始在中端市場使用該模型，然後根據多種因素實時為我們的銷售代表提供信息，我們將根據特定客戶的價格和折扣水平來提供信息基於競爭環境的客戶價值。這實際上使我們能夠最大限度地提高數量和速度。我們將繼續完善這些模型並將其擴展到整個團隊。

But what we're getting from a sales productivity perspective, what we're getting in terms of a marketing targeting perspective, what we're getting in terms of the ability to set the right price and rate to get the biggest competitive advantage, all of those things are pretty impressive. Then on top of that, we're actually using it for analytics. We're actually taking and using voice analytics on the conversations we're having with prospects and in real time, able to give coaching to our sales teams relative to what phrases are working, what messages are working, and we can dynamically change those things on the fly with our marketing message and sales scripts accordingly.

但是，我們從銷售生產力的角度得到的東西，從行銷目標的角度得到的東西，我們從設定正確的價格和費率以獲得最大競爭優勢的能力方面得到的東西，所有這些事情都令人印象深刻。除此之外，我們實際上將其用於分析。我們實際上正在與潛在客戶進行即時對話，並使用語音分析，能夠為我們的銷售團隊提供關於哪些短語有效、哪些消息有效的指導，並且我們可以動態地改變這些事情相應地使用我們的營銷信息和銷售腳本。

So just a ton of very interesting things that we're doing. It was interesting as a lot of these changes to our go-to-market, we actually started piloting in the PEO back in the second half of the last quarter when we were having some challenges. We thought that was the best place to start and to see if we could get some lift. And some of what we've seen in the PEO, I think is a direct result of some of these tactics.

我們正在做很多非常有趣的事情。有趣的是，我們的市場推廣發生了許多變化，實際上我們早在上個季度下半年就開始在 PEO 中進行試點，當時我們遇到了一些挑戰。我們認為這是最好的起點，看看我們是否可以獲得一些提升。我認為我們在 PEO 中看到的一些行為是其中一些策略的直接結果。

Our next question will come from Kartik Mehta with Northcoast Research.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Northcoast Research 的 Kartik Mehta。

You talked a little bit -- John, you talked about -- a little bit about the key selling season, obviously, in the SMB. And I'm wondering if you've seen any kind of change in price competition or if you're seeing anything that is a little different this time than last year?

你談了一點——約翰，你談了一點——顯然，在中小企業的關鍵銷售季節。我想知道您是否看到價格競爭有任何變化，或者您是否看到這次與去年有些不同？

Kartik, look, I don't -- look, it's a competitive market, and it has been as long as I've been in the industry, 27 years. So look, I think there's all kinds of tricks. There's all kinds of market and we're even using them. The fact of the matter is I think there's a lot of offers out there when you get under the details of how long you have to be there, what are the strings attached. Really what it is, it's basic, it's the same kind of environment in terms of -- of discounting. It is very aggressive.

Kartik，看，我不會——看，這是一個競爭激烈的市場，而且我進入這個行業已經有 27 年了。所以你看，我認為有各種各樣的技巧。有各種各樣的市場，我們甚至正在使用它們。事實上，我認為當你詳細了解你必須在那裡待多久、附加條件是什麼時，就會有很多工作機會。事實上，它是基本的，就折扣而言，這是同一種環境。它非常具有攻擊性。

But I would say this. I mean, look, we continue to see that we have price value and pricing pressure -- pricing power, both within our base and in the market. And that was very high in the last 2 years. I think we have been very able with the PPP and the ERTC to be able to really command very strong pricing power. That being said, we've done it for decades. I mean, we're not the lowest cost provider out there, and haven't been for decades.

但我想說的是。我的意思是，我們繼續看到我們在我們的基礎和市場上都有價格價值和定價壓力——定價能力。過去兩年這個數字非常高。我認為我們非常有能力透過 PPP 和 ERTC 真正掌握非常強大的定價權。話雖這麼說，我們已經這樣做了幾十年。我的意思是，我們並不是成本最低的供應商，幾十年來一直如此。

And I think what you see is when you look at our retention levels with our existing clients at record highs, I think that says something about the value proposition. At the end of the day, I think small, medium-sized business owners buy on value, not necessarily on price. So we're going to be competitive. We're going to meet people where they are head to head, but we're not going to be stupid. And you can see that we're being competitive, we're winning where we've been in combat in the market. We've got a good pipeline and a good track record of success. And as you can tell from our margins, we're not giving away the store.

我認為，當你看到我們現有客戶的保留水準創下歷史新高時，你會看到，我認為這說明了價值主張。歸根究底，我認為中小型企業主購買的是價值，而不一定是價格。所以我們將具有競爭力。我們將與人們正面交鋒，但我們不會犯傻。你可以看到我們正在競爭，我們正在贏得市場競爭。我們擁有良好的管道和良好的成功記錄。正如您從我們的利潤中可以看出的那樣，我們不會放棄商店。

And then, Bob, just on the Management Solutions and you're talking about the seasonal employees. Is that just -- if we kind of -- kind of consolidate all that, is it just a matter of your pays per control expectations were X, but they came in a little bit less because of what you're seeing?

然後，鮑勃，就管理解決方案而言，您正在談論季節性員工。這是否只是 - 如果我們有點 - 鞏固所有這些，這只是你的每個控制期望的報酬是 X 的問題，但由於你所看到的，它們的收入有點少？

Yes. I'd say it's more than that, Kartik, because as we've talked about on a full year basis, we had some moderate expectations for clients adding employees. It wasn't a big driver of growth overall, as I mentioned, across both Management Solutions and PEO, that was a little bit softer. But what we're really seeing is not on the low end of the market. It's with our larger size clients, particularly in those ASO and PEO models. They're bigger client sizes, and we typically get some seasonal hiring. We get it every year. We had some assumptions around what that would look like in Q2, and that hasn't materialized to the level of our assumption or what we've seen in prior years.

是的。我想說，卡蒂克的情況不止於此，因為正如我們在全年基礎上討論的那樣，我們對客戶增加員工有一些溫和的期望。正如我所提到的，這並不是管理解決方案和 PEO 整體成長的主要動力，而是有點疲軟。但我們真正看到的並不是低端市場。這是針對我們規模較大的客戶，尤其是 ASO 和 PEO 模式的客戶。他們的客戶規模更大，我們通常會進行一些季節性招聘。我們每年都會得到它。我們對第二季度的情況做出了一些假設，但這些假設尚未實現到我們的假設水平或我們前幾年所看到的水平。

So it's really -- it is across the board. It's a little bit softer than what we anticipated. But to John's point earlier, it's not that small businesses are getting rid of employees, they're just not adding to the level that we assumed in the plan.

所以這確實是全面的。它比我們預期的要軟一些。但就約翰早先的觀點而言，並不是小企業正在解僱員工，而是他們沒有增加我們在計畫中假設的水平。

Our next question comes from Samad Samana with Jefferies.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Samad Samana。

Maybe just stepping back. Since the last time you guys reported, the company has put out midterm financial goals. And I was wondering if maybe you could just provide us some context on the assumptions in that upper single-digit growth target for revenue, especially as we think about employment may be peaking, and rates doing what they are, just what was in that assumption, especially given that it was put out there between the last time you guys reported? And now -- just -- maybe help us understand what the building blocks are?

也許只是後退一步。自從你們上次報告以來，公司已經訂定了中期財務目標。我想知道您是否可以為我們提供一些有關收入上個位數增長目標的假設的背景信息，特別是當我們認為就業可能已見頂，並且利率正在發生變化時，這正是該假設中的內容，特別是考慮到它是在你們上次報道之間發布的？現在——只是——也許可以幫助我們理解構建模組是什麼？

Yes.

是的。

You want me...

你需要我...

Go ahead.

前進。

Yes, Samad. I've gotten this question a lot. I think if you look back at -- we've talked about this. I've talked about it with many of you on this question specifically. But if you look at what we've done from a revenue growth, whether it's over the last 5 years or 10 years, it's well within the range of that midterm guidance that we gave.

是的，薩馬德。我已經被問過很多次這個問題了。我想如果你回顧一下——我們已經討論過這個問題。關於這個問題，我和很多人都專門討論過。但如果你看看我們的收入成長情況，無論是過去 5 年還是 10 年，你都會發現它完全在我們給出的中期指導範圍之內。

I would also say the guidance that we're providing this year, at least the way I think about it is well within that range as well. And as you know, better than anyone, we have a way we go about delivering that growth. It's a mix of client base growth. And then I would say that we would assume that to be similar with past performance.

我還想說，我們今年提供的指導，至少我的想法也在這個範圍內。如您所知，我們比任何人都更有能力實現這種成長。這是客戶群成長的綜合結果。然後我想說，我們會假設這與過去的表現相似。

One thing that we're really good at is getting a larger share of wallet out of our client base with our -- particularly with our higher value solutions, ASO, PEO, retirement. We still think there's a lot of opportunity inside the base. When you look at a lot of those key solutions, the penetration rates are fairly low. And so we believe we have a lot of opportunity to continue to drive growth there.

我們真正擅長的一件事是從我們的客戶群中獲得更大份額的資金——特別是透過我們更高價值的解決方案、ASO、PEO、退休。我們仍然認為基地內部有很多機會。當您查看許多關鍵解決方案時，您會發現滲透率相當低。因此，我們相信我們有很多機會繼續推動那裡的成長。

As John mentioned, we have pricing power, right? We deliver a strong value proposition and our expectation is that, hey, we might not be capturing price at the level that we did over the last couple of years where inflation was, but we believe we have a strong value proposition that is going to enable us to continue to capture price in the future. And I think when you put all that together, I'd say the other component of it, when you look back historically as we have used M&A as a way to drive growth in the business, and that has been part of our growth formula. It's part of what we've delivered over the last 5 and 10 years. And we expect that we'll continue to look for opportunities, and that will be part of our growth in the future.

正如約翰所提到的，我們有定價權，對吧？我們提供了一個強大的價值主張，我們的期望是，嘿，我們可能不會像過去幾年通貨膨脹那樣捕捉價格，但我們相信我們有一個強大的價值主張，這將使我們未來將繼續捕捉價格。我認為，當你把所有這些放在一起時，我會說它的另一個組成部分，當你回顧歷史時，因為我們使用併購作為推動業務成長的一種方式，這一直是我們成長公式的一部分。這是我們過去 5 年和 10 年所交付的成果的一部分。我們預計我們將繼續尋找機會，這將成為我們未來成長的一部分。

So when you kind of put that all together, that gives us confidence that we can continue to deliver in that upper single-digit level. It's not going to be -- it will vary year by year, but for the most part, we expect to be in that range.

因此，當你把所有這些放在一起時，這給了我們信心，我們可以繼續以較高的個位數水平實現目標。它不會——每年都會有所不同，但在大多數情況下，我們預計會在這個範圍內。

Understood. And then maybe just a follow-up, based on the trends that you guys have called out so far or what you observed in this most recent quarter, how should we think about maybe your own near-term hiring plans for quota-carrying sales reps or just in your own sales organization? Any change to that plan based on what you just observed in the prior quarter?

明白了。然後也許只是一個後續行動，根據你們迄今為止指出的趨勢或你們在最近一個季度觀察到的情況，我們應該如何考慮你們自己的配額銷售代表的近期招聘計劃或者只是在您自己的銷售組織中？根據您在上一季觀察到的情況，該計劃有何變化？

No. We're fully staffed, and our intent is to continue to grow sales. Look, the business starts are up. We feel like the opportunity in the marketplace is strong. Now I will tell you the thing we are trying to balance is the productivity gains that we can get out of some of the go-to-market strategies. As I said, we did some testing words in the PEO that showed some really good lift. And so quite frankly, I think we're going to apply those in the mid-market and the upper end of the SMB market. And I think those could also be a lift as well. But we have no plans of pulling back on investing in growth.

不會。我們人員齊全，我們的目的是繼續增加銷售額。瞧，生意開始起來了。我們認為市場機會很大。現在我會告訴你，我們正在努力平衡的是我們可以從一些進入市場策略中獲得的生產力收益。正如我所說，我們在 PEO 中做了一些測試，結果顯示出一些非常好的提升。坦白說，我認為我們將在中端市場和中小型企業市場的高端應用這些技術。我認為這些也可能是一種提升。但我們沒有計劃縮減成長投資。

Our next question will come from Bryan Keane with Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題將來自德意志銀行的布萊恩·基恩。

Just a couple of clarifications from me. When you talked about SMBs investing for growth, hesitation, some hesitation there. Does that impact their willingness to buy ancillary services and maybe has impacted the management services growth as well?

我只是做一些澄清。當您談到中小型企業為成長而投資時，猶豫不決，有些猶豫。這是否會影響他們購買輔助服務的意願，或許也影響了管理服務的成長？

We've really not seen that, Bryan. I think what we see is probably in the case of -- and I'll just use an example, [let's take] an example. You may have a very good -- a business owner has opened a couple of franchises, doing very, very well financially, and probably could justify adding another franchise store somewhere. But the cost of capital, access to capital is constrained, and they're holding back on doing that because the hurdle rate just can't be met. So that's more what I see than people pulling back and saying that I don't need that.

我們真的沒有看到這一點，布萊恩。我認為我們所看到的情況可能是—我只舉一個例子，[讓我們舉]一個例子。你可能有一個非常好的情況——一位企業主開設了幾家特許經營店，財務狀況非常非常好，並且可能有理由在某處增加另一家特許經營店。但資本成本和獲得資本的管道受到限制，他們之所以不這麼做，是因為無法達到最低門檻。所以我看到的更多是人們退縮並說我不需要它。

Again, most of the time, when you look at our products and the services that we're offering, they're either driving efficiency or they're helping them retain and attract our quality employees, either by enhancing their benefits or by having an HCM solution. So I kind of view that most of our clients that are looking at our services understands the value of the products and services and believe that they're actually going to help their business be more successful. And so I don't think they always view it as an expense line item, if you know what I mean.

同樣，大多數時候，當您查看我們的產品和我們提供的服務時，您會發現它們要么提高效率，要么幫助他們留住和吸引我們的優質員工，無論是通過提高他們的福利還是通過擁有HCM解決方案。因此，我認為大多數關注我們服務的客戶都了解產品和服務的價值，並相信他們實際上會幫助他們的業務取得更大成功。因此，如果您明白我的意思，我認為他們並不總是將其視為支出項目。

Got it. Got it. And then the other clarification I had is, the shift to ASO to PEO, did that surprise you guys? Or was that all part of the plan and pretty typical?

知道了。知道了。然後我得到的另一個澄清是，從 ASO 到 PEO 的轉變，這讓你們感到驚訝嗎？或者這都是計劃的一部分並且非常典型？

No. I mean, it's something we've always historically done. What I would say is that it turned out better than we expected. Now let's keep in mind that last year, when we're out in the market with the PEO and ASO offering, we saw a tilt towards -- we had great HR outsourcing sales last year. We have great HR outsourcing sales. This year, they're just in different locations on the reporting structure.

不，我的意思是，這是我們歷史上一直在做的事情。我想說的是，結果比我們預期的還要好。現在讓我們記住，去年，當我們在市場上推出 PEO 和 ASO 產品時，我們看到了一種傾向——去年我們的人力資源外包銷售額很高。我們的人力資源外包銷售非常出色。今年，它們只是在報告結構中處於不同的位置。

And so last year, we knew we had a lot of clients that we would have typically seen be great candidates for PEO. And they, for whatever reason, went to the ASO offering. And we said in the calls, we felt like that would be a good opportunity to go back to them once they've experienced our human capital management system, the benefits of our HR advisory solutions and our HRG to go back and kind of reintroduce them to the comprehensive outsourcing of the PEO model. That's exactly what we did. And so we had a bigger group of clients inside the base because of the success of ASO last year to go in mind.

去年，我們知道我們有很多客戶，我們通常認為他們是 PEO 的絕佳候選人。不管出於什麼原因，他們都參加了 ASO 產品。我們在電話中表示，一旦他們體驗了我們的人力資本管理系統、我們的人力資源諮詢解決方案和我們的 HRG 的優勢，我們覺得這將是一個很好的機會，讓他們回去重新介紹他們。到PEO模式的全面外包。這正是我們所做的。由於去年 ASO 的成功，我們在基地內擁有了更多的客戶群。

And then the other point that I said, what we're doing in terms of analytics to be able to identify clients that we have a high degree of certainty that they're going to benefit from the co-employment relationship that a PEO provides. And that's enabling us to what I would say, a little bit better cherrypick inside our vast customer base, who we should go after.

然後我說的另一點是，我們在分析方面所做的工作是為了能夠高度確定客戶將從 PEO 提供的共同僱傭關係中受益。我想說的是，這使我們能夠在我們龐大的客戶群中更好地挑選我們應該關注的客戶。

Got it. That's helpful. And then just a quick one for Bob. Just to quantify the small acquisition, does that add about 1 to 2 points of revenue for third quarter? Or how do we think about that?

知道了。這很有幫助。然後給鮑伯簡單介紹一下。只是為了量化小額收購，這是否會為第三季的收入增加約 1 到 2 個百分點？或者我們如何看待這個問題？

No. It's small. I don't have the exact number, Bryan. On a full year basis, we said it's not a material contributor to revenue growth at all. I mean, way less than 1%. I don't have the split in front of me by quarter.

不，它很小。我沒有確切的數字，布萊恩。就全年而言，我們表示這根本不會對收入成長做出實質貢獻。我的意思是，遠低於 1%。我面前沒有按季度劃分的情況。

Yes, I was just thinking maybe you could offset some of the ETRC.

是的，我只是想也許你可以抵消一些 ETRC。

I mean it certainly is -- and that's assumed in the guide, and it certainly is offsetting it. But ERTC was so large in the back half of last year, particularly in Q3. Unfortunately, it comes nowhere near close enough to offset the full thing. But it does minimize it a little bit, the headwind.

我的意思是它肯定是——這是指南中假設的，它肯定會抵消它。但 ERTC 在去年下半年的規模非常大，尤其是在第三季。不幸的是，它還遠遠不足以抵消全部的影響。但它確實將逆風最小化了一點。

Our next question will come from James Faucette with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題將來自摩根士丹利的詹姆斯·福賽特。

Just a couple of quick follow-up questions. In terms of back to this point on seasonal hiring maybe being a little bit weaker, I'm just wondering, from your perspective, if there's been any impact or truth even before out to this narrative that we've heard a lot around labor hoarding and that smaller businesses, in particular, were keeping people on payroll or employed that they maybe otherwise wouldn't have just because they were concerned about shortages? And just wondering if you've seen any evidence of that actually in your customers and if that could be impacting the seasonal hiring at all?

只是幾個快速的後續問題。回到這一點，季節性招聘可能有點弱，我只是想知道，從你的角度來看，甚至在我們聽到很多關於勞動力囤積的敘述之前，是否有任何影響或真相尤其是小企業，是否因為擔心短缺而保留了員工的薪資或就業機會？只是想知道您是否在您的客戶中看到了任何實際的證據，以及這是否會影響季節性招募？

Well, James, I actually would say in the small business, it's not been hoarding at all. It's been a deficit. Now to be fair, in our index, which we follow very closely -- and I've reported a lot on this, small businesses, probably 9 months ago, kind of got back to a level playing field.

好吧，詹姆斯，我實際上會說，在小企業中，根本沒有囤積居奇。已經是赤字了。公平地說，在我們密切關注的指數中，我已經對此進行了很多報道，小型企業大概在 9 個月前就已經回到了公平的競爭環境。

I think where you saw hoarding was more in the upper end in enterprise side of the space. I think you saw that. Now -- so that's where I think you saw hoarding and hiring of people maybe they didn't even need. And the sets where you've seen some of these bigger downsizing.

我認為你看到的囤積物更多是在空間的企業側的上端。我想你已經看到了。現在——所以我認為你看到了囤積和僱用可能他們根本不需要的人的地方。您會看到一些更大規模的縮小規模的佈景。

I think to the point you may be making is I do think that small and midsized business owners were reluctant to change employees out. And because we're trying a lot of focus on retention. That's why we launched the Retention Insights AI offering over a year ago because small business owners want to keep their good employees. I do think now that small business owners are trying to make sure that they have high-quality workforces. And that's what we see them talking to our HR generalists about is really more about how do I weed and feed my employee base? I maybe don't have the employee base that I wanted because I was kind of forced to hire some people 2 years ago when it was hard to find people. Now there's more opportunity to upskill my workforce. That's kind of what we're seeing in the low end. I wouldn't say any hoarding.

我認為你可能想說的是，我確實認為中小型企業主不願意更換員工。因為我們正在嘗試將重點放在保留上。這就是我們一年多前推出 Retention Insights AI 產品的原因，因為小企業主希望留住優秀員工。我確實認為現在小企業主正在努力確保他們擁有高素質的勞動力。這就是我們看到他們與我們的人力資源通才談論的內容，實際上更多的是關於我如何剔除和養活我的員工基礎？我可能沒有我想要的員工基礎，因為兩年前很難找到人時，我被迫僱用了一些人。現在有更多機會來提高我的員工技能。這就是我們在低端市場看到的情況。我不會說有任何囤積行為。

Okay. Got it. I just wanted to make sure that I was interpreting that correctly. And then you mentioned that we still are in a period of strong business starts. What about on the other end? I think there had been this viewed over -- in the economy generally that we weren't seeing failure rates or out of business rates get back to pre-pandemic levels yet, but can you just give us an update on what kind of out of business levels we're seeing? And -- and how much -- and particularly in the context of continued strong business starts, I'm just wondering on that component of the customer set.

好的。知道了。我只是想確保我的解釋正確。然後您提到我們仍處於業務強勁起步的時期。那另一端呢？我認為，在經濟總體上，我們還沒有看到失敗率或停業率回到大流行前的水平，但您能否向我們介紹一下最新情況，說明是什麼樣的停業？我們看到的業務水平？而且——以及有多少——特別是在業務持續強勁啟動的背景下，我只是想知道客戶群的組成部分。

Yes. I would tell you that bankruptcies are up and have been on the rise probably over the last year. You're still seeing births outpacing deaths. And now deaths typically report a little lag. I would just tell you in our data that bankruptcies continue to accelerate this year over last year in terms of out of business reasons.

是的。我想告訴你的是，破產數量正在增加，並且可能在去年一直在增加。你仍然會看到出生率超過死亡率。現在，死亡報告通常會出現一些延遲。我只想在我們的數據中告訴你，就業務原因而言，今年的破產數量比去年繼續加速。

Again, what I always want to warn people here because I think people read into that data, other concerns on a macro basis, I don't view it that way. The fact of the matter is we had such high levels of new business births 2 years ago during the pandemic, that if you just do the math of survivability rates of those businesses, that -- most of them are gone after 5 years. And 50% of them are gone in the first 2 years.

再說一遍，我一直想警告這裡的人們，因為我認為人們會從宏觀角度解讀這些數據和其他擔憂，但我不這麼認為。事實上，兩年前的新冠疫情期間，我們誕生瞭如此高水準的新企業，如果你計算一下這些企業的生存率，就會發現，大多數企業在 5 年後就消失了。其中 50% 在前 2 年內就消失了。

So what you're seeing is that shedding of that big bulk that started 2 years ago. The first group of those are going out of business. And so I think it's not a sign that there's an abnormal level of bankruptcies given the level of business starts that we had over the last 3 years, if that makes sense. Did I say that properly?

所以你所看到的是兩年前開始的大量脫落。其中第一組正在倒閉。因此，我認為，考慮到我們過去三年的開工水平，如果這有意義的話，這並不是一個破產水平異常高的跡象。我說得對嗎？

It does -- Yes, I just -- on that point, so clearly, bankruptcies have been rising, but have they -- in your customer sets, have they surpassed pre-COVID levels? Or not yet? Or -- and it sounds like given that large number of births, we probably should expect them to surpass pre-COVID levels at some point if they haven't, right?

確實如此——是的，我只是——在這一點上，很明顯，破產率一直在上升，但是在你的客戶群中，它們是否超過了新冠疫情前的水平？還是還沒有？或者——聽起來鑑於出生人數如此之多，我們可能應該預期他們在某個時候會超過新冠疫情前的水平，如果他們沒有的話，對嗎？

Yes. I -- I would let me here -- because -- what I would tell you is bankruptcies are definitely up and have surpassed the fiscal year '20 levels, which is just a (inaudible) pandemic.

是的。我——我會讓我在這裡——因為——我要告訴你們的是，破產數量肯定會增加，並且已經超過了 20 財年的水平，這只是一場（聽不清）的流行病。

Got it.

知道了。

And just a mark in the second quarter.

第二季僅取得了一個成績。

Our next question will come from Mark Marcon with Baird.

我們的下一個問題將由貝爾德和馬克馬爾孔提出。

So on Management Solutions, John and Bob, you started off by talking about the upper -- the mid and upper end being a little bit stronger and seeing good performance there. I'm wondering, to what extent is that being driven by some of the new tools that you've recently introduced? In other words -- and what are you seeing just in terms of the strength dissecting between new logos versus further upsells into the existing client base?

因此，在管理解決方案中，約翰和鮑勃，你們首先談論了上層——中端和上端稍強一些，並且在那裡看到了良好的表現。我想知道，您最近推出的一些新工具在多大程度上推動了這一趨勢？換句話說，您從新商標與向現有客戶群進一步追加銷售之間的實力對比中看到了什麼？

Yes. I mean, as John mentioned, I think we've seen a lot of strength in the mid-market. And from a sales performance standpoint, our unit performance that we had in Q2, I think you mentioned in the prepared remarks, John, was above where we were at this time last year. We continue to see strong penetration within the existing client base, upsells into the base, whether that's ASO, PEO, retirement. But I would say, Mark, there's strength across the board, both from a new logo standpoint, particularly in the mid-market as well as upsells into the base.

是的。我的意思是，正如約翰所提到的，我認為我們在中端市場看到了巨大的實力。從銷售業績的角度來看，約翰，我認為您在準備好的發言中提到，我們在第二季度的單位業績高於去年此時的水平。我們繼續看到現有客戶群的強勁滲透，向該群的追加銷售，無論是 ASO、PEO 還是退休。但我想說，馬克，無論是從新標誌的角度來看，還是從新標誌的角度來看，尤其是在中端市場以及向基礎市場的追加銷售，都有全面的優勢。

Great. And then despite that strong growth, we're basically assuming a slightly slower pace with -- so it basically would be the SBS side, and you've mentioned an increase in terms of bankruptcies. In terms of the selling season, are there any things that you're seeing in terms of differences between Paychex versus SurePayroll? Any sort of differences -- and I know it's still early in the selling season, but any color that you would -- that you would provide above and beyond what you've already said?

偉大的。儘管成長強勁，但我們基本上假設步伐會稍慢一些，所以基本上是 SBS 方面，而且您提到了破產數量的增加。就銷售季節而言，您認為 Paychex 與 SurePayroll 之間有差異嗎？除了你已經說過的以外，你還會提供任何類型的差異——我知道現在還處於銷售季節的早期，但你會提供任何顏色？

Yes. No, Mark. I would say what we're seeing is what we've typically seen, again, SurePayroll more in the micro set. So if I look at the micro set, continuing to see similar type of -- there's a lot of new business starts. So there's a lot of opportunity there for growth. And then in the small business, we're just so early in the key selling season. Really, as you know, the next 60 days are really going to tell us how that's going to shake out.

是的。不，馬克。我想說的是，我們看到的是我們通常看到的，再次強調，SurePayroll 更多的是在微觀領域。因此，如果我觀察微觀環境，就會繼續看到類似類型的東西——有許多新業務開始啟動。因此，那裡有很多增長機會。然後在小型企業中，我們正處於關鍵銷售季節的早期。確實，如您所知，接下來的 60 天將真正告訴我們情況將如何變化。

Back to I think what your original question was as well on -- on Management Solutions is, remember, you have the geography issue occurring at the same time. So while we're selling a lot more inside our human capital management base and into our ASO base, some of what we're upselling is PEO. And so they're moving over to the other geography on the P&L, which is a good thing from a long-term perspective. And then as we said, this issue relative to the seasonal hiring which happened in the upper end of the market, that impacted both the PEO on the PEO and insurance side and the ASO market on the Management Solutions side.

回到我認為你最初的問題也是關於管理解決方案的，記住，你同時發生了地理問題。因此，雖然我們在人力資本管理基礎和 ASO 基礎上銷售了更多產品，但我們向上銷售的部分產品是 PEO。因此，他們正在轉向損益表上的其他地區，從長遠來看，這是一件好事。正如我們所說，這個問題與高端市場發生的季節性招聘有關，它影響了 PEO 和保險方面的 PEO 以及管理解決方案的 ASO 市場。

That's a great point. And then on the PEO side, just one question with regards to the insurance costs. On an apples-for-apples basis, what sort of price increase are you seeing for similar plans relative to what was offered last year through your various health insurance partners for this coming enrollment season?

這是一個很好的觀點。然後在 PEO 方面，只有一個關於保險費用的問題。在同類計劃的基礎上，相對於去年透過您的各個健康保險合作夥伴為即將到來的註冊季節提供的類似計劃，您認為類似計劃的價格上漲了多少？

Yes. Look, you're pointing to an item which I think is a -- is a tailwind that I think will continue to evolve in that is healthcare inflation. And really, I think you'll see that evolve in the future, post pandemic. Pushing costs through the health system is a slow process. It starts with more expenses at the hospital. They have to negotiate with carriers. They have contracts that takes years to do. In our local community, there's unionization and strikes going on at the local hospital for more pay. Then that has to get approved by state legislature. So the cost increase that we saw inflationary in health care, last 2 years is going to start making its way to health plan costs in the future. We're certainly aware of that, and we're doing things to prepare for that.

是的。聽著，你指的是一個我認為是醫療保健通膨的順風車，我認為它將繼續發展。事實上，我認為你會在未來、疫情之後看到這種情況的發展。透過衛生系統推動成本是一個緩慢的過程。首先是醫院的費用增加。他們必須與運營商談判。他們的合約需要數年時間才能完成。在我們當地的社區，當地醫院正在組織工會並舉行罷工，要求加薪。然後必須得到州立法機關的批准。因此，過去兩年我們看到的醫療成本增加將開始影響未來的醫療計畫成本。我們當然意識到了這一點，並且我們正在為此做準備。

And when we talked about that last year, we did a lot of changes in our healthcare lineups to give more choices to people, making sure that we have the right plans. And I would say that our apples-to-apples was actually highly competitive to what the general inflation was. And we're keeping our MLRs in line to where they've historically been at the same time. And so through some plan designs and some other ways in which our teams have been creative in coming up with some creative health solutions, I think we've got a good portfolio of products and services that our clients are finding very competitive to alternatives that they have. I don't know if that helps.

當我們去年談論這個問題時，我們對醫療保健陣容做了很多改變，為人們提供更多選擇，確保我們有正確的計劃。我想說的是，我們的同類產品實際上與整體通膨率相比具有很強的競爭力。我們的 MLR 與歷史同期保持一致。因此，透過一些計劃設計和我們的團隊創造性地提出一些創意健康解決方案的其他一些方式，我認為我們已經擁有了良好的產品和服務組合，我們的客戶發現這些產品和服務與他們的替代品相比非常有競爭力。有。我不知道這是否有幫助。

It does. But would you say, John, that you would be looking at increases for this year in terms of -- would they be higher than last year? And then what sort of impact does that have? Does it make your PEO offering more or less attractive relative to everything else that's out there, as a small business owner that's trying to manage through that situation?

確實如此。但是，約翰，你會說你會考慮今年的成長嗎——它們會高於去年嗎？那麼這會產生什麼樣的影響呢？作為一個試圖應對這種情況的小企業主，它是否會讓您的 PEO 服務相對於其他所有產品更具吸引力或更少吸引力？

Well, I would say, given the results and the pipeline that I see that's made us more successful. That's the results I look at. We're not in a -- we're in a very competitive environment. So most of the deals that we're involved in, someone else is involved in. And I think our lineup is very comparable.

嗯，我想說，鑑於我所看到的結果和管道，這使我們更加成功。這就是我所看到的結果。我們不是處於一個競爭非常激烈的環境。所以我們參與的大部分交易都是由其他人參與的。而且我認為我們的陣容非常具有可比性。

I think what you -- what I would say is that we manage our plans in such a way that we tend to beat the standard health inflation, and we've broadened our portfolio of offerings, such that I think there is something for every client, they can find something that they want in our plans. And I think that breadth of services and breadth of options is one of the things that differentiates us from others.

我認為你 - 我想說的是，我們以這樣一種方式管理我們的計劃，我們傾向於擊敗標準的健康通貨膨脹，並且我們擴大了我們的產品組合，這樣我認為每個客戶都有一些東西，他們可以在我們的計劃中找到他們想要的東西。我認為服務的廣度和選擇的廣度是我們與其他公司的差異之一。

Our next question will come from Scott Wurtzel with Wolfe Research.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Wolfe Research 的 Scott Wurtzel。

Just one from me quickly. Can you remind us of what your top end market exposures are by vertical, maybe in the PEO segment? We have heard from one of your peers who were seeing some challenges sort of on the pace per control worksite employee side and PEO mostly due to some certain end market exposures. So it would be very helpful if you guys can just remind us of where you guys have some of your larger exposures in the PEO.

快點給我發一份吧。您能否提醒我們一下，您的高端市場在垂直領域（也許是 PEO 領域）的曝險是什麼？我們從您的一位同行那裡得知，他們在每個控制工作場所員工和 PEO 的速度方面都遇到了一些挑戰，主要是由於某些終端市場的暴露。因此，如果你們能提醒我們你們在 PEO 中擁有哪些較大的風險敞口，那將會非常有幫助。

Scott, we do not have any high concentrations in our PEO. It's the general market. Remember, historically, our PEO was really an upsell within our client base, our payroll client base. Our payroll client base is diverse as the country's small business market.

斯科特，我們的 PEO 濃度不高。這是一般市場。請記住，從歷史上看，我們的 PEO 實際上是在我們的客戶群、我們的薪資客戶群中進行追加銷售。我們的薪資客戶群與該國的小型企業市場一樣多樣化。

We didn't originate in a vertical strategy as a business from PEO perspective. So we never got highly concentrated in any particular area. We maybe had some geographic concentration before the acquisition of the Oasis, but the Oasis acquisition really made us a broad national player. And so there's no one industry concentration that really drives that business.

從 PEO 的角度來看，我們並不是源自於垂直策略的企業。所以我們從來沒有高度集中在任何特定領域。在收購 Oasis 之前，我們可能有一定的地理集中度，但收購 Oasis 確實使我們成為了一個廣泛的全國性參與者。因此，沒有一個產業集中度能夠真正推動這項業務。

Our next question will come from Ashish Sabadra with RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題將來自加拿大皇家銀行資本市場的 Ashish Sabadra。

This is David on -- David [Page] for Ashish. I just had a quick one regarding the organic growth in Management Solutions in the quarter. It looks like you grew revenue by 4%. But maybe you could just -- if you could remind us what the organic growth is? It looks like you had a small $200 million acquisition. So that would be helpful.

這是大衛--大衛[佩奇]為阿什許。我剛剛快速了解了本季管理解決方案的有機成長。您的收入似乎成長了 4%。但也許你可以 - 如果你能提醒我們有機成長是什麼？看來您進行了一筆 2 億美元的小額收購。所以這會很有幫助。

Yes. Yes, I mean, that was a very small contributor, David, to growth in the quarter. And the other thing you need to keep in mind, we kind of gave you color on ERTC being a slight tailwind in the first half. It was actually a headwind in Q2. So most of that came in Q1. So you're kind of -- you have the headwind of ERTC, you have a slight tailwind from the acquisition. But the organic growth rate is not going to be too far different from what you see as reported.

是的。是的，我的意思是，大衛，這對本季的成長貢獻很小。您需要記住的另一件事是，我們向您介紹了 ERTC 在上半場的輕微順風。這實際上是第二季的逆風。所以大部分都出現在第一季。所以，你有 ERTC 的逆風，而收購則有輕微的順風。但有機成長率不會與您所看到的報告相差太大。

Our last question will come from Tien-Tsin Huang with JPMorgan.

我們的最後一個問題將由摩根大通的黃天欽提出。

Yes, just to close out the call. You mentioned the LTV for the PEO business being attractive. I don't think I've heard that from Paychex for all these years. So could you elaborate on that relative to the ASO or HRO or you think you can't size it just the ratio there? Just love to learn more on that.

是的，只是為了結束通話。您提到 PEO 業務的 LTV 很有吸引力。我想這些年來我都沒有從 Paychex 那裡聽過這樣的消息。那麼您能否詳細說明相對於 ASO 或 HRO 的情況，或者您認為您不能僅根據那裡的比率來確定其規模？只是喜歡了解更多相關資訊。

Yes. I mean we've talked about it in the past that certainly when we look across all of the different solutions that we offer, the PEO is certainly the highest lifetime value. And as you can imagine, when you start getting all of the -- you get into that PEO model, and they have -- the client has their health insurance and their workers' comp and insurance and they're [SUI] with us and all the different offerings. That's really our full solution that we offer. You're getting more hooks into them.

是的。我的意思是，我們過去已經討論過，當我們審視我們提供的所有不同解決方案時，PEO 無疑是最高的生命週期價值。正如您可以想像的那樣，當您開始獲得所有 - 您進入 PEO 模型時，他們擁有 - 客戶擁有他們的健康保險以及他們的工人補償和保險，他們[SUI]與我們在一起並且所有不同的產品。這確實是我們提供的完整解決方案。你會對它們產生更多的興趣。

And particularly when they have their health insurance with us, if they have their health insurance with us, if they were to leave the PEO, that would be very disruptive for their employees. They may have to get new insurance cards. They may have to -- they might be in a different network, might have to change doctors. So that's very disruptive. And so you get a lot of hooks into them in that model.

特別是當他們有我們的健康保險時，如果他們有我們的健康保險，如果他們離開 PEO，這將對他們的員工造成很大的傷害。他們可能必須獲得新的保險卡。他們可能不得不——他們可能處於不同的網路中，可能不得不更換醫生。所以這是非常具破壞性的。因此，在該模型中您會遇到很多問題。

And as you know, retention is a big driver of lifetime value. So although when we're selling clients, we want to put them in the right model that meets their needs, ultimately -- and that was, as we've talked about, one of our strategies this year is really to go back into that base, get them over into that PEO model because the economics in that model over the long term are very favorable. And so that's part of our strategy.

如您所知，保留率是終身價值的重要驅動力。因此，儘管當我們向客戶銷售時，我們希望最終將他們置於滿足他們需求的正確模式中 - 正如我們所討論的，我們今年的策略之一確實是回到這個模式讓他們進入PEO 模型，因為從長遠來看，該模型的經濟效益非常有利。這是我們戰略的一部分。

Got it. Yes. I know the notionals are high. But in my mind, the payroll -- the [costs] as payroll business and retention (inaudible) margins are so high. I figured that was also a tough competition.

知道了。是的。我知道觀念很高。但在我看來，工資業務——工資業務和保留（聽不清楚）利潤率的[成本]是如此之高。我認為這也是一場激烈的競爭。

Yes, it's really the retention that drives up...

是的，確實是留存率提高了...

Yes. Tien-Tsin, I think it's a very easy thing. If you think about the way we approach it, you've got our HCM platform, and you know that on a stand-alone basis is a good business to be in. We then add our what you'd say is ASOs. You add an HR professional, then you got someone advising your business. There's more value there. We know our retentive nature of that is high.

是的。天進，我覺得這是一件很容易的事。如果您考慮我們的處理方式，您將擁有我們的 HCM 平台，並且您知道在獨立的基礎上這是一項很好的業務。然後我們添加您所說的 ASO。您新增了一名人力資源專業人員，然後有人為您的業務提供建議。那裡有更多的價值。我們知道我們對此的記憶力很高。

Now you get into adding the insurance and as Bob said, because we've done such a strong job of managing that over the long term, that there's a predictable health inflation metric that becomes very attractive in terms of certainty for the clients there. And then you mentioned [SUI], you mentioned everything else. So you've got a profitable business on top of a profitable business on top of a sticky product. And so you just keep it there.

現在你要增加保險，正如鮑伯所說，因為我們在長期管理方面做得非常出色，所以有一個可預測的健康通膨指標，對於那裡的客戶來說，它的確定性變得非常有吸引力。然後你提到了[SUI]，你提到了其他一切。因此，除了黏性產品之外，你還擁有一項可獲利的業務。所以你就把它放在那裡。

And I think the evidence is, both in terms of you look at the national studies, et cetera, is the survivability and others, to be fair, tends to be more attractive to larger clients, 20-plus, if you will. So they naturally have a higher survivability rate. But the simple fact is what we see is there's a higher business survivability rate in those that are going with the PEO solution. And then they're staying with us longer, and we're getting all of the flow through and benefit of the HCM and the HR Outsourcing margins.

我認為證據是，無論是從國家研究等方面來看，還是生存能力和其他方面，公平地說，往往對大客戶（20 歲以上）更具吸引力，如果你願意的話。所以他們自然有更高的生存率。但簡單的事實是，我們看到採用 PEO 解決方案的企業的業務存活率更高。然後他們會在我們這裡待得更久，我們就能獲得 HCM 和人力資源外包利潤的所有流量和收益。

And the [CAC] is also low because a good chunk of it is still selling into it. I know you said it's coming -- proposed.

[CAC] 也很低，因為其中很大一部分仍在出售。我知道你說過它即將到來——提議。

Good point.

好點子。

Good point. Yes.

好點子。是的。

Okay. I think that was it. At this point, we'll close the call. If you're interested in a replay of the Webex of this conference call will be archived for approximately 90 days on our website. We would certainly want to wish all of you and your families a very safe and happy holiday season. I want to continue to thank you for your interest in Paychex and hope everyone has a great day. Take care.

好的。我想就是這樣。此時，我們將結束通話。如果您有興趣重播本次電話會議的 Webex，我們的網站將存檔約 90 天。我們當然希望祝福您和您的家人有一個安全、快樂的假期。我想繼續感謝您對 Paychex 的興趣，並希望每個人都有美好的一天。小心。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's program, and we appreciate your participation. You may disconnect at any time.

謝謝你們，女士們、先生們。今天的節目到此結束，感謝您的參與。您可以隨時斷開連線。