PagSeguro Digital Ltd (PAGS) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good evening. My name is Carolyn, and I will be your conference operator for today. Welcome to PagSeguro Digital Earnings Call for the Third Quarter 2023. (Operator Instructions) This event is also being broadcast live via webcast and may be accessed through PagSeguro Digital website at investors.pagbank.com. Participants may view the slides in any order they wish. Today's conference is being recorded and will be available after the event is concluded. I would now like to turn the call over to your host, Éric Oliveira, Head of IR. Please go ahead.

晚安.我叫卡羅琳，今天我將擔任你們的會議操作員。歡迎參加 2023 年第三季 PagSeguro Digital 收益電話會議。（操作員說明）該活動也透過網路廣播進行現場直播，並且可以透過 PagSeguro Digital 網站 Investors.pagbank.com 進行存取。參與者可以按照他們想要的任何順序觀看幻燈片。今天的會議正在錄製中，並將在活動結束後提供。現在我想將電話轉給主持人、IR 主管 Áric Oliveira。請繼續。

Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining our third quarter 2023 earnings call. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. Before proceeding, let me mention that any forward-looking statements included in the presentation or mentioned on this conference call are based on currently available information and PagSeguro Digital's current assumptions, expectations and projections about future events. While PagSeguro Digital believes that the assumptions, expectations and projections are reasonable in view of currently available information, you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements.

大家好。感謝您參加我們的 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。演講者發言後，將進行問答環節。在繼續之前，請允許我提一下，簡報中包含的或本次電話會議中提到的任何前瞻性陳述均基於當前可用的信息以及 PagSeguro Digital 目前對未來事件的假設、期望和預測。儘管 PagSeguro Digital 認為，鑑於當前可用信息，這些假設、預期和預測是合理的，但請注意不要過度依賴這些前瞻性聲明。

Actual results may differ materially from those included in PagSeguro Digital's earnings presentation or discussed on this conference call for a variety of reasons, including those described in the forward-looking statements and Risk Factors of PagSeguro Digital's most recent annual report on Form 20-F and other filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which are available on PagSeguro Digital's Investor Relations website at investors.pagbank.com. Finally, I would like to remind you that during this conference call, the company may discuss some non-GAAP measures, including those disclosed in the presentation. We present non-GAAP measures when we believe that the additional information is useful and meaningful to investors.

由於多種原因，實際結果可能與 PagSeguro Digital 的收益演示或本次電話會議中討論的結果存在重大差異，包括 PagSeguro Digital 最新 20-F 表格年度報告中的前瞻性陳述和風險因素中描述的結果以及向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件，可在PagSeguro Digital 的投資者關係網站Investors.pagbank.com 上取得。最後，我想提醒您，在本次電話會議期間，公司可能會討論一些非公認會計準則措施，包括演示中揭露的措施。當我們認為附加資訊對投資者有用且有意義時，我們會提出非公認會計準則衡量標準。

The presentation of this non-GAAP financial information which is not prepared under any comprehensive set of accounting rules or principles, is not intended to be considered separately from or as a substitute for our financial information prepared and presented in accordance with IFRS as issued by the IASB. For more details, the foregoing non-GAAP measures and the reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable IFRS measures are presented in the last page of this webcast presentation and earnings release.

本非公認會計原則財務資訊的列報並非根據任何全面的會計規則或原則編制，因此不應單獨考慮或取代我們根據國際財務報告準則編制和列報的財務資訊國際會計準則理事會。有關更多詳細信息，本網絡廣播演示文稿和收益發布的最後一頁介紹了上述非公認會計原則財務指標以及這些非公認會計原則財務指標與最直接可比的國際財務報告準則指標的調節表。

With that, let me turn the call over to Ricardo. Thank you.

現在，讓我把電話轉給里卡多。謝謝。

Hello, everyone, and thanks for joining our third quarter 2023 earnings call. Once again, I have the company of Alex, our CEO; and Artur, our CFO.

大家好，感謝您參加我們的 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。我們的執行長 Alex 再次陪伴著我；還有我們的財務長阿圖爾。

Going to Slide 3. I'm happy to announce in Q3 2023, we have reached the largest net income, both GAAP and non-GAAP in the history of the company.

轉到幻燈片 3。我很高興地宣布，在 2023 年第三季度，我們已經實現了公司歷史上最大的淨利潤（GAAP 和非 GAAP 淨利潤）。

In the past years, we have successfully managed the impacts related to the high interest rates for a longer period while reshaping our funded structure backed by deposits. More recently, we have been seeing better operating trends in our volumes, combined to Brazilian interest rate decrease, which should positively contribute to our funding strategy to keep delivering growth with the profitability. Our non-GAAP net income reached BRL 440 million, growing 7% year-over-year. Despite our increasing footprint to merchants, largely in the long tail, accretive to gross profit besides lower take rates, our margins continue to improve, resulting in BRL 894 million EBITDA, reaching the highest margin since Q3 2021.

過去幾年，我們成功地應對了較長時期內高利率的影響，同時重塑了以存款為支撐的資金結構。最近，我們看到銷售的營運趨勢有所改善，再加上巴西利率下降，這應該會對我們的融資策略產生積極貢獻，以保持獲利能力的成長。我們的非 GAAP 淨利潤達到 4.4 億雷亞爾，年成長 7%。儘管我們對商家的影響力不斷增加（主要是長尾），除了較低的接受率之外，還增加了毛利，但我們的利潤率持續改善，實現EBITDA 8.94 億雷亞爾，達到2021 年第三季以來的最高利潤率。

Total revenue was flattish year-over-year and grew 5% quarter-over-quarter, reaching BRL 4 billion. Disciplined CapEx deployment resulted in BRL 10.6 billion in net cash balance in the end of the quarter, 17% higher than previous year, driven by 36% growth in cash earnings versus Q3 2022.

總收入較去年同期持平，季增 5%，達到 40 億雷亞爾。嚴格的資本支出部署導致本季末淨現金餘額達到 106 億雷亞爾，比去年同期增長 17%，這得益於現金收益較 2022 年第三季增長 36%。

Going to the Financial Services section, we have continued (inaudible), constantly improving our risk management models. We have been exploring new addressable markets by offering collateralized products and despite the interchange cap impact in our revenues from Financial Services division, revenues posted a quarter-over-quarter growth, and EBITDA was positive again, reaching BRL 2 million. PagBank cash-in was BRL 56 billion, driving up deposits to the all-time high level, reaching BRL 21.6 billion, reinforcing the closed loop advantage backed by a comprehensive set of payments beyond cards accepted while lowering the company's cost of funding.

轉到金融服務部分，我們繼續（聽不清楚）不斷改進我們的風險管理模式。我們一直在透過提供抵押產品來探索新的潛在市場，儘管金融服務部門的收入受到互換上限的影響，但收入環比增長，EBITDA 再次為正，達到 200 萬雷亞爾。 PagBank 現金現金為 560 億雷亞爾，推動存款達到歷史最高水平，達到 216 億雷亞爾，強化了除接受卡之外的綜合支付支持的閉環優勢，同時降低了公司的融資成本。

In payments, we keep growing in a profitable way and our TPV reached almost BRL 100 billion, 11% year-over-year growth. Going to Slide 4, our focus on new technologies and product developments continue in 2023. In this slide, we share the main milestones of our company. In October, our company executed its first transaction using DREX, the Brazilian digital currency through the blockchain platform, embracing the digital assets revolution. This month, we just announced the facial authentication feature for our clients aiming to use our payment link option, reinforcing our security features while improving user experience and confidence.

在支付領域，我們持續獲利成長，TPV 達到近 1,000 億雷亞爾，較去年同期成長 11%。轉到投影片 4，我們將在 2023 年繼續專注於新技術和產品開發。在這張投影片中，我們分享了我們公司的主要里程碑。 10月，我司透過區塊鏈平台完成第一筆巴西數位貨幣DREX交易，擁抱數位資產革命。本月，我們剛宣佈為客戶提供臉部驗證功能，旨在使用我們的支付連結選項，增強我們的安全功能，同時提高用戶體驗和信心。

On payments, we announced our Tap On phone solution, fully embedded in PagVendas app, our proprietary ERP software with more than 1 million users. We also launched our collection platform, a comprehensive set of payment solutions, covering cards acceptance, PIX QR Code and boleto issuance, empowering merchants to accept all payment options. On Financial Services, in addition to products launched for consumers, such as investment options, debit cards and so on, we also launched products focused on SMBs and larger merchants. This year, we have launched our payroll solution, allowing entrepreneurs to manage their employees' paychecks in a seamless way, and we also launched our PagBank business account that allows direct deposits from third-party acquirers into PagBank account.

在付款方面，我們推出了 Tap On 手機解決方案，該解決方案完全嵌入 PagVendas 應用程式中，PagVendas 應用程式是我們擁有超過 100 萬用戶的專有 ERP 軟體。我們也推出了收款平台，這是一整套支付解決方案，涵蓋卡片受理、PIX二維碼和Boleto發行，讓商家能夠接受所有支付方式。在金融服務方面，除了針對消費者推出的產品，如投資選擇、金融卡等，我們也推出了中小企業和大型商家的產品。今年，我們推出了薪資解決方案，讓創業家以無縫方式管理員工的薪資，我們也推出了 PagBank 企業帳戶，讓第三方收單機構直接存款到 PagBank 帳戶。

Now I pass the word over to Alex for the commentaries on the third quarter 2023 operational highlights.

現在我將 2023 年第三季營運亮點的評論轉交給 Alex。

Thank you, Ricardo. Hello, everyone. We show on Slide 5 that our merchant acquiring business remains solid and through the combination of our superior value proposition and the broad reach of our sales channel, we have been able to accelerate TPV growth faster than the industry, driven by our merchant segments. TPV reached almost BRL 100 billion, growing 11% year-over-year. We continue to observe better TPV growth through the first weeks of the fourth quarter. MSMB TPV posted 15% growth versus third quarter 2022, primarily driven by SMBs, followed by micro-merchants. As Ricardo mentioned earlier, we also noted a rebound in TPV growth from large accounts, which is composed by merchants with TPV above BRL 500,000 per month.

謝謝你，里卡多。大家好。我們在投影片5 中顯示，我們的商家收單業務依然穩健，透過卓越的價值主張和廣泛的銷售管道相結合，在商家細分市場的推動下，我們能夠以快於行業的速度加速TPV 的增長。 TPV 達到近 1000 億雷亞爾，年增 11%。我們在第四季度的前幾週繼續觀察到 TPV 的更好成長。 MSMB TPV 較 2022 年第三季成長 15%，主要由中小企業推動，其次是微型商家。正如里卡多之前提到的，我們也注意到大帳戶的 TPV 成長出現反彈，這些帳戶由每月 TPV 超過 50 萬雷亞爾的商家組成。

Moving on to Slide 6, the instant prepayment product which combines payment service and financial service through PagBank account, has promoted an increasing footprint in larger merchants, resulting in 22% year-over-year growth in TPV per merchant. Our strategy to focus on disciplined CapEx deployment did not interfere in our POS sales uptrend.

再來看 Slide 6，透過 PagBank 帳戶將支付服務和金融服務結合起來的即時預付款產品，推動了大型商家的足跡不斷擴大，導致每個商家的 TPV 年比增加 22%。我們專注於嚴格的資本支出部署的策略並沒有乾擾我們的 POS 銷售上升趨勢。

In August, we presented the record POS sales level since January 2022, with the highest POS activation ratio since mid-2021. Consequently, we reached 6.7 million active merchants. At first glance, the net merchant's loss has been raising concerns about our ability to grow our business and revenues. However, when we consider active merchants with at least one transaction in the past 30 days, excluding nano-merchants, the positive trend is revealed, supported by our TPV growth rebound in all segments and the improving cash earnings generation.

8 月份，我們創下了自 2022 年 1 月以來的最高 POS 銷售水平，並創下了 2021 年中期以來的最高 POS 激活率。因此，我們的活躍商家達到了 670 萬人。乍一看，網商的損失引起了人們對我們業務成長和收入成長能力的擔憂。然而，當我們考慮過去30 天內至少進行過一筆交易的活躍商家（不包括納米商家）時，在我們所有細分市場的TPV 成長反彈和現金獲利能力改善的支持下，積極的趨勢就顯現出來了。

PagBank clients grew 16% year-over-year, surpassing 30 million clients, placing us among the most relevant Brazilian financial institutions, adding more than 4 million new clients in the past 12 months, as shown on Slide 7.

PagBank 客戶年增 16%，客戶數量超過 3,000 萬，使我們躋身巴西最相關的金融機構之列，在過去 12 個月內增加了超過 400 萬新客戶，如幻燈片 7 所示。

Our active clients base reached 16.7 million clients, leading to BRL 56 billion in PagBank cash-in, composed by PIX and P2P wire transfers inflows into PagBank accounts from other financial institutions. Combined, TPV and PagBank cash-in led deposits up 11% compared to the third quarter of 2022 and 18% quarter-over-quarter, reaching a record of BRL 21.6 billion. This deposit level was boosted by our AAA rating attributed by S&P Global, which enhanced our CD distribution among the institutional and retail investors on- and off-platform. Checking accounts balance, the cheapest funding source and a key performance indicator to measure client engagement, grew 43% year-over-year, driving down our annual percentage yields to 93% of the CDI.

我們的活躍客戶群達到 1,670 萬，導致 PagBank 現金收入達 560 億雷亞爾，其中包括從其他金融機構流入 PagBank 帳戶的 PIX 和 P2P 電匯流入。 TPV 和 PagBank 的現金存款合計較 2022 年第三季成長 11%，較上季成長 18%，達到創紀錄的 216 億雷亞爾。這一存款水準得益於標準普爾全球 (S&P Global) 給予我們的 AAA 評級，這增強了我們在平台內外機構和散戶投資者中的 CD 分配。支票帳戶餘額是最便宜的資金來源，也是衡量客戶參與度的關鍵績效指標，年增 43%，導致我們的年收益率下降至 CDI 的 93%。

Slide 9 shows that our credit portfolio reached BRL 2.5 billion due to our ongoing run-off of the working capital loan portfolio, combined to the tax planning write-off of nonperforming loans we started in the last quarter. Payroll loan and FGTS already accounts for half of the portfolio, expanding our offerings to consumers primarily through a seamless experience and a cheaper cost structure. Our go-to-marketing strategy for secured loans is based on competitive APRs and a digital end-to-end onboarding risk assessment, underwriting and collections. This also includes our offering of credit cards backed by investments and savings. The total credit portfolio share composed by secured products reached 60%, resulting in the ongoing downtrend in NPL 90+ to 10.7%. Now I turn over to Artur for the financial highlights of the third quarter '23. Artur, please.

投影片 9 顯示，由於我們不斷減少營運資金貸款組合，加上我們上季開始的不良貸款稅務規劃沖銷，我們的信貸組合達到了 25 億雷亞爾。薪資貸款和 FGTS 已佔投資組合的一半，主要透過無縫體驗和更便宜的成本結構向消費者擴展我們的產品。我們的擔保貸款行銷策略是基於有競爭力的年利率和數位化端到端入職風險評估、核保和催收。這也包括我們提供以投資和儲蓄為支持的信用卡。擔保產品構成的信貸組合總份額達60%，導致不良貸款90+持續下降至10.7%。現在我請 Artur 了解 23 年第三季的財務亮點。阿圖爾，請。

Thanks, Alexandre. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us in the call. This quarter, I am proud to announce all-time high net income, GAAP and non-GAAP. Total revenue and income grew 5% due to TPV growth and gross profit grew 3% on a quarterly basis, also positively impacted by lower losses and higher level of deposits that reduced financial expenses. Our commitment to efficiency led another decrease in operating expenses, driving 5% EBITDA growth quarter-over-quarter with similar improvement in EBITDA from payments vertical while EBITDA from Financial Services got back to the positive territory despite the effects related to the cap on interchange of prepaid cards, lowering our revenues since second quarter.

謝謝，亞歷山大。大家好，感謝您加入我們的通話。本季度，我很自豪地宣布 GAAP 和非 GAAP 淨利潤創歷史新高。由於 TPV 成長，總收入和收入增長了 5%，毛利按季度增長了 3%，這也受到虧損減少和存款水準提高從而減少財務費用的正面影響。我們對效率的承諾導致營運費用再次下降，推動 EBITDA 環比增長 5%，支付垂直領域的 EBITDA 也有類似改善，而金融服務領域的 EBITDA 又回到了正值，儘管存在與交換上限相關的影響。預付卡，自第二季以來降低了我們的收入。

Net income on a non-GAAP basis reached BRL 440 million, growing 6% quarter-over-quarter and 7% year-over-year. Earnings per share reached BRL 1.27, BRL 0.09 better than last quarter and 10% higher than third quarter 2022. Cash earnings amounted to BRL 365 million, 40% higher than the second quarter of 2023 and 36% versus the same quarter of last year.

以非公認會計準則計算的淨利潤達到 4.4 億雷亞爾，季增 6%，年增 7%。每股盈餘達1.27雷亞爾，較上一季成長0.09雷亞爾，較2022年第三季成長10%。現金收益達3.65億雷亞爾，比2023年第二季成長40%，比去年同期成長36%。

On Slide 11, revenues from Payments unit grew 5% quarter-over-quarter, while gross profit grew 4% in the same period. TPV growth and transaction cost savings due to interchange cap impacted positively the current performance versus third quarter 2022. Comparing quarter-over-quarter, the increase was due to lower take rate partially led by client mix change towards large merchants with lower take rates but incremental gross profit contribution.

在投影片 11 中，支付部門的營收季增 5%，而同期毛利成長 4%。與2022 年第三季相比，TPV 的成長和交易成本的節省對當前業績產生了正面影響。與上一季相比，成長的原因是採用率較低，部分原因是客戶結構向採用率較低但增量的大型商家轉變。毛利貢獻。

Adjusted EBITDA on the Payments division reached BRL 892 million, an increase of 5% quarter-over-quarter and 7% year-over-year. On the next slide. Financial Services vertical's total revenues reached BRL 260 million in third quarter of 2023, 8% higher than the second quarter. On the other hand, gross profit decreased to BRL 101 million, down 9% on a quarterly basis, mainly led by an increase in provisions for losses due to a credit model update based on IFRS 9. Besides the higher provision levels, adjusted EBITDA grew BRL 64 million from third quarter of 2022, back into the positive territory.

支付部門調整後 EBITDA 達到 8.92 億雷亞爾，季增 5%，年增 7%。在下一張投影片上。 2023 年第三季度，金融服務垂直領域的總收入達到 2.6 億雷亞爾，比第二季度成長 8%。另一方面，毛利下降至 1.01 億雷亞爾，按季度下降 9%，主要是由於根據 IFRS 9 更新信貸模型導致損失撥備增加。除了撥備水平較高外，調整後 EBITDA 也有所增長從2022 年第三季開始，營收為6,400 萬雷亞爾，重新回到正值區間。

Moving to Slide 13. Financial expenses closed at BRL 820 million versus BRL 921 million in the third quarter of 2022. This decrease is mainly explained by our lower average cost of funding, driven by higher level of deposits. On a quarterly basis, financial expenses increased due to more 2 working days in third quarter 2023 versus last quarter. Total losses decreased 39% year-over-year, accounting BRL 165 million, driven by lower provisions for expected credit losses, healthier coverage ratio and credit underwriting mostly on secured projects. On the other hand, the increase quarter-over-quarter is mainly due to higher provisions led by modeling review for working capital and payroll loans.

轉向投影片 13。財務費用最終為 8.2 億雷亞爾，而 2022 年第三季為 9.21 億雷亞爾。這一下降主要是由於存款水準較高導致平均融資成本較低。以季度來看，由於2023年第三季比上季增加了2個工作天，財務費用增加。總損失年減 39%，達 1.65 億雷亞爾，原因是預期信用損失準備金減少、覆蓋率更健康以及主要針對擔保項目的信貸承保。另一方面，環比增長主要是由於營運資金和工資貸款模型審查導致撥備增加。

Operating expenses reached BRL 583 million, down 5% year-over-year and 1% quarter-over-quarter. This amount represents 14.5% of total revenue and income lower than the level of third quarter 2022. Despite of lower revenue levels derived from the regulatory change and even with 5% of inflation in the last 12 months, our headcount resizing and marketing and infrastructure optimization led to the leverage. In the Slide 14, our cash earnings continued to gain momentum, driven by discipline in total costs and expenses, revenue growth, stable CapEx and higher margins, reaching a positive amount of BRL 365 million, up 36% versus same period of 2022. CapEx marked BRL 529 million, up 5% year-over-year due to inflation and the upbeat trends in merchants' gross adds that requires additional POS inventory levels, but lower quarter-over-quarter, driven by better merchants' cohorts and POS activation, our discipline in capital allocation and efficiencies in IT investments remain, which we expect to result in a similar or lower capital expenditure disbursement versus last year.

營運費用達 5.83 億雷亞爾，年減 5%，季減 1%。這筆金額佔總收入的14.5%，收入低於2022 年第三季的水平。儘管監管變化導致收入水平下降，而且過去12 個月的通貨膨脹率為5%，但我們仍進行了人員規模調整以及行銷和基礎設施優化導致了槓桿。在投影片14 中，在總成本和費用、收入成長、穩定的資本支出和更高的利潤率的推動下，我們的現金收入繼續保持成長勢頭，達到3.65 億雷亞爾的正值，與2022年同期相比增長36%。資本支出 由於通貨膨脹和商家總增加額的樂觀趨勢（需要額外的POS 庫存水平），實現了5.29 億雷亞爾，同比增長5%，但由於商家群體和POS 激活情況的改善，季度環比有所下降，我們在資本配置和 IT 投資效率方面的紀律仍然存在，我們預計這將導致與去年類似或更低的資本支出支出。

Depreciation and amortization, including POS write-off, totaled BRL 393 million, representing close to 10% of total revenue and income, keeping the pace to coverage to CapEx levels in the coming quarters to unlock additional profitability in the future. We expect this stabilization to happen in the second half of 2024, in line with CapEx. On the final slide, our net cash balance ended the third quarter at BRL 10.6 billion. In the past 12 months, our cash generation amounted to BRL 3.7 billion, which we invested BRL 1.8 billion in POS purchase and technology developments and BRL 330 million in buyback shares.

折舊和攤銷（包括 POS 沖銷）總計 3.93 億雷亞爾，佔總收入和收入的近 10%，保持了未來幾季資本支出水準的覆蓋率，以在未來釋放額外的獲利能力。我們預計這種穩定將在 2024 年下半年實現，與資本支出一致。在最後一張投影片中，我們第三季末的淨現金餘額為 106 億雷亞爾。在過去 12 個月中，我們產生的現金達 37 億雷亞爾，其中 18 億雷亞爾用於 POS 採購和技術開發，3.3 億雷亞爾用於回購股票。

In October, treasury holds more than 4% of total shares issued. The company bought back BRL 1 billion since 2021. That represents 81% of the total program approved in 2018. Our equity position continued to increase with 58% being composed by returning earnings, reinforcing our commitment to shareholders on capital allocation and returns.

10月份，財務部門持有已發行股份總數的4%以上。公司自2021 年以來回購了10 億雷亞爾，佔2018 年批准計畫總額的81%。我們的股本部位持續增加，其中58% 由收益回報構成，強化了我們對股東的資本配置和回報承諾。

Now we have ended the presentation, and we will start the Q&A section. Operator, please.

現在我們的演講結束了，以下開始問答環節。接線員，請說。

(Operator Instructions) The first question comes from Mario Pierry with Bank of America.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自美國銀行的 Mario Pierry。

Congratulations on the quarter. Let me ask you 2 questions, please. First one is on the take rate. We saw that it declined quarter-over-quarter from 4.06% to 3.97%. You talked about a change in client mix to the large accounts, it seems like it. But I was wondering if that's all of the impact was just from changing mix, how are you seeing the pricing environment, how are you seeing the competitive environment and how do you think your take rate behaves going forward?

恭喜本季。請讓我問你 2 個問題。第一個是關於接受率。我們看到它環比從 4.06% 下降到 3.97%。您談到了大客戶客戶組合的變化，看起來是這樣。但我想知道這是否所有的影響都只是來自於組合的變化，您如何看待定價環境，如何看待競爭環境以及您認為未來的採取率表現如何？

And then the second question is related to -- like you talked about having BRL 10.6 billion in cash, how you have this buyback program opened since 2021, you executed 80% of the program so far. But I was wondering like how do you see future distribution of excess capital, either in buyback or dividends?

第二個問題與您談到的擁有 106 億雷亞爾現金有關，自 2021 年以來您如何啟動該回購計劃，到目前為止您已執行了該計劃的 80%。但我想知道您如何看待未來多餘資本的分配，無論是回購還是股利？

This is Eric. Thanks for the question. When we think about the take rate trajectory, we always have to remind that the breakdown take rates are based on the merchants' mix, like you said, duration mix and also promotional prices that we also make for a certain period of time. If you remember, we started doing the promotional prices for our online sales channel in the beginning of the year and necessarily as we continue to see uptrend beat, and uptrend in gross adds, naturally, most of these gross adds comes from micro-merchants, which have access to the promotional prices for the first month's transaction with us, so promotional prices for a certain period of time, merchant mix and also duration mix.

這是埃里克。謝謝你的提問。當我們考慮採取率軌跡時，我們總是必須提醒，細分的採取率是基於商家的組合，就像你說的那樣，持續時間組合以及我們也在一段時間內製定的促銷價格。如果您還記得，我們​​在年初就開始為我們的線上銷售管道進行促銷價格，並且必然隨著我們繼續看到上升趨勢和總增加的上升趨勢，自然，這些總增加大部分來自微商戶，可以獲得與我們的第一個月交易的促銷價格，因此在一定時間內的促銷價格、商家組合以及持續時間組合。

We understand that the take rate trajectory in the short term should be slightly down, especially in Q4 for seasonality reasons as debit cards tend to increase the penetration in comparison to overall TPV. But moving forward, as our footprint in larger merchants stabilize, take rates combined to the financial services revenues should also stabilize over 2024. So I think it's reasonable to expect take rates in a consolidated view to stabilize in 2024 but naturally always considering merchants mix, duration mix and promotional prices that we do. Now let me pass the word to Artur.

我們知道，短期內的採用率軌跡應該會略有下降，特別是在第四季度，由於季節性原因，因為與整體 TPV 相比，借記卡往往會提高滲透率。但展望未來，隨著我們在大型商家中的足跡趨於穩定，金融服務收入的合併費率也應在2024 年穩定下來。因此，我認為，綜合來看，預計費率在2024 年穩定是合理的，但自然總是考慮商家組合，我們所做的持續時間組合和促銷價格。現在讓我轉告阿圖爾。

Mario, it's Artur speaking. Thank you for your question. Good to talk to you. Regarding to buyback program and the BRL 10.6 billion of net cash balance that we have, BRL 10.6 billion, it's important to mention that it's a comparison of assets and liabilities, operational assets and operational liabilities. At this point, we do not have the intention to distribute dividends. We have been buying back shares every quarter. We are expecting to continue doing that due to the current attractive valuation of the company.

馬裡奧，我是阿圖爾。謝謝你的問題。很高興和你說話。關於回購計畫和我們擁有的 106 億雷亞爾的淨現金餘額，106 億雷亞爾，值得一提的是，這是資產和負債、營運資產和營運負債的比較。目前，我們無意分配股利。我們每季都會回購股票。由於該公司目前的估值具有吸引力，我們預計將繼續這樣做。

The buyback program launched in 2018. We executed 81%. There is BRL 200 million available at this point. And there is a new buyback program under discussion in the company and as soon as possible and as soon as we decide to launch this new one, we will inform the market. And so this is the thing that we are thinking about the share buyback.

回購計畫於 2018 年啟動。我們執行了 81%。目前有 2 億雷亞爾可用。公司正在討論一項新的回購計劃，一旦我們決定推出這項新計劃，我們就會盡快通知市場。這就是我們正在考慮股票回購的事情。

Great. Let me follow up then on what Eric talked about the promotions that you started promotions for online at the beginning of the year, so is it fair to assume that these promotions have been going on since the beginning of the year or have you stopped the promotions?

偉大的。接下來讓我跟進一下Eric談到的你們年初開始的網上促銷活動，那麼可以公平地假設這些促銷活動從年初開始就一直在進行，或者你們已經停止了促銷活動嗎？ ？

Yes, since the beginning of the year. But when we look at the cohorts evolution in the time line, we see the decisions that we took 3, 6 months ago, posting benefits, especially in the gross adds 6 months later. So the decision that we took in the beginning of the year are reflecting in better gross adds trend and necessarily the share of promotional prices for a certain period of time, much more now than the first half '23.

是的，從今年年初開始。但是，當我們查看時間線上的群組演變時，我們會看到 3、6 個月前做出的決定帶來了好處，尤其是在 6 個月後的總增加中。因此，我們在今年年初做出的決定反映了更好的總增加趨勢以及在一定時期內促銷價格的份額，現在比 23 年上半年要高得多。

Okay. And how are you seeing the competitors behaving, Eric?

好的。艾瑞克，你如何看待競爭對手的行為？

Mario, this is Ricardo. We don't see competitors being irrational. Of course, there are some competitors that are trying to get some market share for a while. But once they realize that it's hard to make money, they give up, they step back. So we don't see anyone being irrational. If you look at what happened in Q3, looking at the trends more recently, we were the company that grew more quarter-over-quarter than all the market. We grew like 8% quarter-over-quarter and the market grew 4%.

馬裡奧，這是里卡多。我們不認為競爭對手是非理性的。當然，也有一些競爭對手試圖暫時獲得一些市場份額。但一旦他們意識到賺錢很難，他們就會放棄、退縮。所以我們沒有看到有人不理性。如果你看看第三季發生的事情，看看最近的趨勢，我們是一家比所有市場季度比去年同期成長更多的公司。我們季度環比成長了 8%，市場成長了 4%。

So I mean, we've been executing well. As Eric said, we also have this promotion that we are getting some results at this point. But going back to your question, we don't see anyone being irrational. And we think we have a good pricing point as of now to keep growing. And as you can see in our results, we had the highest net income in both GAAP and non-GAAP. So I mean -- we think we are in the right lever in terms of price and growing.

所以我的意思是，我們執行得很好。正如艾瑞克所說，我們也有這個促銷活動，目前我們已經取得了一些成果。但回到你的問題，我們沒有看到有人不理性。我們認為，到目前為止，我們有一個很好的定價點來保持成長。正如您在我們的結果中看到的，我們在 GAAP 和非 GAAP 下的淨利潤都是最高的。所以我的意思是——我們認為我們在價格和成長方面處於正確的水平。

The next question comes from Jorge Kuri with Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的豪爾赫·庫裡。

Everyone, congrats on the numbers. I wanted to ask you about your credit portfolio. I'm looking at Slide 8 of your presentation. We continue to see the total loan book coming down quarter-on-quarter. I'm wondering where is your risk appetite? At what point do you think this can start inflecting -- some of the smaller, more fintech-driven lenders like Banco Pan, Banco Inter, Nubank are showing significantly more growth. What do you need, either internally or externally to start to see the portfolio of credit really taking off and making best use of your capital and your deposits?

大家都對這個數字表示祝賀。我想問一下你的信貸組合。我正在看您簡報的第 8 張投影片。我們繼續看到貸款總額環比下降。我想知道你的風險偏好在哪裡？您認為這種情況何時會開始改變——一些較小、更受金融科技驅動的貸方，如 Banco Pan、Banco Inter、Nubank 正在顯示出顯著的成長。您需要什麼，無論是內部還是外部，才能開始看到信貸投資組合真正起飛並充分利用您的資本和存款？

Artur speaking. Our credit portfolio is growing when you consider where we have focused on payroll loan, FGTS and credit card backed by CDs. So the portfolio is growing. But at this quarter, we also had some write-offs for the working capital loans. It's our running off operation. Regarding to when we can back to offer credit, at this point, we consider focus on secure rate. We still see difficulties in the market when we compare to other players and the banks reducing the limits for credit cards. We are waiting for the conditions in the market to improve to back to offer maybe in a different way, credit.

阿圖爾在講話。當您考慮到我們專注於薪資貸款、FGTS 和 CD 支援的信用卡時，我們的信貸組合正在不斷增長。因此，投資組合正在成長。但在本季度，我們也沖銷了一些營運資金貸款。這是我們的逃跑行動。至於我們什麼時候可以重新提供信貸，目前我們考慮關注安全利率。當我們與其他參與者和銀行降低信用卡限額相比時，我們仍然看到市場的困難。我們正在等待市場狀況改善，以便以不同的方式（信貸）重新提供報價。

But at this point and in the coming quarters, we will focus 100% in the secured portfolio in the secured originations and focus on payroll loan, FGTS and credit card backed by any investment that we receive from the clients. We continue working in the models and all the, I would say, infrastructure to offer credit at the right moment, we will be able in the future to talk in a different way about credits.

但目前和未來幾個季度，我們將 100% 專注於有擔保來源的有擔保投資組合，並專注於由我們從客戶收到的任何投資支持的工資貸款、FGTS 和信用卡。我們繼續研究模型和所有基礎設施，以便在適當的時候提供信貸，我們將來將能夠以不同的方式談論信貸。

The next question comes from Gabriel Gusan with Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的加布里埃爾古桑（Gabriel Gusan）。

Maybe to follow up on Jorge's question about the credit portfolio. Can you talk about your appetite specifically to the SMB segment? I understand, of course, in your first attempt, there was a mix of micros and SMBs and how you continue to see the growth in SMBs outpacing micros. Is that something that should continue seeing that we will see PAGS more active in this SMB space? And my second question is about CapEx. We see it's stubbornly high despite you reducing your exposure to micro-merchants, focusing more on SMBs. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Thank you.

也許是為了跟進豪爾赫關於信貸組合的問題。能具體談談您對中小企業細分市場的興趣嗎？當然，我理解，在您的第一次嘗試中，微型企業和中小企業混合在一起，以及您如何繼續看到中小企業的成長超過微型企業。我們會看到 PAGS 在這個 SMB 領域更加活躍嗎？我的第二個問題是關於資本支出的。儘管您減少了對小微型商家的接觸，並更多地關注中小企業，但我們發現它仍然居高不下。所以我想聽聽你對此的想法。謝謝。

Gabriel, This is Ricardo. Regarding the SMBs, as Artur said to Jorge, we are looking at this point and we are focused on secured products, secured credit products which means FGTS, payroll loan and credit card backed by CDs. It doesn't matter to our consumers if you're an SMB business. That's the -- those are the products that we're going to focus on and we're going to keep accelerating in the following quarters. At some point, of course, if you want to be a bank, you've got to have unsecured products, but we just don't think that's the right time to do so.

加布里埃爾，這是里卡多。關於中小企業，正如 Artur 對 Jorge 所說，我們正在關注這一點，我們專注於擔保產品、擔保信貸產品，這意味著 FGTS、工資貸款和 CD 支持的信用卡。如果您是中小型企業，對我們的消費者來說並不重要。這就是我們將重點關注的產品，我們將在接下來的幾季繼續加速發展。當然，在某些時候，如果你想成為一家銀行，你必須擁有無擔保產品，但我們認為現在還不是這樣做的合適時機。

When you look at the market, we see even the incumbent banks struggling with some NPLs and delinquency rates. It seems that it's getting better, the scenario. But at this point, we don't think it's worth to take the risk. We are going in a healthy way in this secured products, and we'll keep investing on that. So if your question was related to unsecured products to SMBs, we do not expect to do that in the short term. If something changes, we'd let you know, but we don't expect to have this type of products in the short term. We'll keep working on secured products (inaudible) CapEx.

當你觀察市場時，我們會發現即使是現有銀行也在與一些不良貸款和拖欠率作鬥爭。看來，劇情越來越好了。但目前，我們認為不值得冒這個風險。我們正在以健康的方式開發這種安全產品，並且我們將繼續對此進行投資。因此，如果您的問題與中小企業的不安全產品有關，我們預計短期內不會這樣做。如果發生變化，我們會通知您，但我們預計短期內不會推出此類產品。我們將繼續致力於安全產品（聽不清楚）資本支出。

It's Artur speaking. Thanks for the question, and good to talk to you, too. Regarding to CapEx, we remain disciplined on this investment that we are doing. It's important to mention that the CapEx is not only related to POS, but also related to technology developments, and we see many opportunities to develop new features and also improve the features that we have today to getting better the offer to our clients as most as possible. We are expecting to have a CapEx this year slightly lower than 2022.

說話的是阿圖爾。感謝您的提問，也很高興與您交談。關於資本支出，我們對正在進行的這項投資仍然保持紀律。值得一提的是，資本支出不僅與 POS 相關，還與技術發展相關，我們看到了許多開發新功能並改進我們現有功能的機會，以便盡可能為客戶提供更好的服務可能的。我們預計今年的資本支出將略低於 2022 年。

That means the level of CapEx today is reasonable for us and is a good lever to maintain the company running and attract new clients, increasing the gross merchants for the company. In 2024, we probably will have the similar CapEx of 2023. And it's important to mention that in the second half of 2024 onwards, our CapEx levels tend to be similar to our D&A plus POS write-off. So in the past years, the expenses related to DNA and write-off increased a lot and put pressure on our bottom line. And we are seeing that in the second half, we have a better way to see the bottom line for the company.

這意味著今天的資本支出水準對我們來說是合理的，並且是維持公司營運和吸引新客戶、增加公司總商家的良好槓桿。 2024 年，我們的資本支出可能與 2023 年類似。值得一提的是，從 2024 年下半年開始，我們的資本支出水準往往與 D&A 加 POS 沖銷類似。所以在過去的幾年裡，DNA和核銷相關的費用增加了很多，對我們的利潤帶來了壓力。我們看到，在下半年，我們有更好的方法來了解公司的底線。

The next question comes from John Coffey with Barclays.

下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的約翰·科菲。

Alex, I had one question for you on some of your prepared remarks. I think you said that you continue to see better TPV growth through the first weeks of the fourth quarter. Should I interpret that as meaning that you're seeing growth around 11%, more than 11%. So I'd just be interested in your thoughts on that. And then for my second question. It was really on the financing expenses that you have. And I'm just, I think, going over to Slide 13 in your deck, where I think one of the drivers for having the lower financing expenses year-over-year have been your deposits. Should we take this just to mean that you're becoming more and more insulated from the impacts of the Selic rate that perhaps as the Selic declines, it makes less of a difference in your financing expenses because you're almost funding most of the book or a lot of the book from your deposits. So those are my 2.

亞歷克斯，我有一個關於你準備好的發言的問題要問你。我想您說過，您在第四季度的前幾週繼續看到了更好的 TPV 成長。我是否應該將其解釋為您看到的成長率約為 11%，甚至超過 11%？所以我只是對你對此的想法感興趣。然後是我的第二個問題。這實際上取決於你的融資費用。我想，我只是轉到投影片 13，我認為融資費用逐年降低的驅動因素之一是您的存款。我們是否應該認為這只是意味著您越來越不受Selic 利率的影響，也許隨著Selic 利率的下降，它對您的融資費用的影響越來越小，因為您幾乎為這本書的大部分提供了資金或從你的存款中取出很多書。這些是我的 2。

Okay. John, this is Alex and I will answer the first part of your question. Actually, we are growing higher than 11% in the first weeks of the fourth quarter and we see a very good trend in terms of growth moving forward. This is the result of this new growth cycle. We're just starting the beginning of the second semester of this year. First semester, we did a lot of optimization and adjustments in our operation, and we suffered in terms of TPV growth. And now we are regaining this growth momentum, and we are doing better in the fourth quarter than we did in the third quarter.

好的。約翰，我是亞歷克斯，我將回答你問題的第一部分。事實上，第四季前幾週我們的成長率高於 11%，我們看到了未來成長的良好趨勢。這是新的成長週期的結果。今年第二學期才剛開始。第一學期，我們在營運上做了很多優化和調整，冠捷成長受到了影響。現在我們正在重新獲得這種成長勢頭，我們第四季的表現比第三季更好。

And John, this is Ricardo and I will start the answer to the second question regarding the dependence or the linked with Selic. You're right. When you look at the Slide 13, we are more and more using deposits for funding and for all the operations that we have, meaning prepayment and also the credit that we offer for our clients. We -- at the end of the day, if Selic goes down, it's good news because we're going to have lower costs. And even if you have deposits, they are linked with Selic. So look at Slide 8. We see that our deposits, we are paying the blend and 93% of Selic. So if Selic goes down, we're going to take advantage. So as deposits grow more and more, we don't need to rely on third parties for the funding, and we have a lower cost as a percentage of Selic considering the deposit.

約翰，我是里卡多，我將開始回答第二個問題，有關依賴性或與 Selic 的聯繫。你說得對。當您查看幻燈片 13 時，我們越來越多地使用存款來提供資金和開展我們所有的業務，這意味著預付款以及我們為客戶提供的信貸。歸根結底，如果 Selic 下降，這是個好消息，因為我們的成本將會降低。即使您有存款，它們也與 Selic 掛鉤。所以看看幻燈片 8。我們看到我們的存款，我們正在支付混合和 93% 的 Selic。因此，如果 Selic 出現故障，我們將利用這一點。因此，隨著存款越來越多，我們不需要依賴第三方提供資金，考慮到存款，我們的 Selic 百分比成本也更低。

So answering that in a different way. If Selic goes down, we're going to take advantage because at the end of the day, the cost that we have for partnership expenses are linked to Selic, and deposits have a lower cost than third parties operations that we might have in the market.

所以用不同的方式來回答這個問題。如果 Selic 下降，我們將利用這一優勢，因為歸根結底，我們的合作夥伴費用成本與 Selic 相關，而且存款的成本低於我們在市場上可能擁有的第三方業務。

Complementing the answer. When we talk about deposits, especially when we see deposits on our platform, it's most cheaper than the deposits received from out of our platform and third-party platforms. So we have (inaudible) that considers deposits, on capital. That is based on return net earnings. There is no impact in the P&L, in the cost of the P&L. And we mix with other funding institutions that also help us to run the business.

補充一下答案。當我們談論存款時，尤其是當我們在我們的平台上看到存款時，它比從我們平台和第三方平台收到的存款最便宜。因此，我們（聽不清楚）考慮了存款和資本。這是基於淨利潤回報。對損益表和損益表成本沒有影響。我們與其他也幫助我們經營業務的融資機構合作。

Going forward, we are expecting to have or to continue to have this good performance in financial expenses because we are most efficient every time. And so this was the first time when we compared year-over-year that we are reducing (inaudible) so it's good for the company. Obviously, part of that is related to Selic down I would say downtrend because we are expecting to have more cut in December, but also because we are more efficient in the funding that we developed for the company.

展望未來，我們期望在財務費用方面擁有或繼續擁有這種良好的表現，因為我們每次都是最高效的。因此，這是我們第一次同比減少（聽不清楚），因此這對公司有利。顯然，部分原因與 Selic 下降有關，我想說下降趨勢，因為我們預計 12 月會有更多削減，但也因為我們為公司開發的資金更有效率。

The next question comes from Yuri Fernandes with JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的尤里·費爾南德斯。

I have a question here on PIX P2M. I would like to know if you can share anything with us how relevant is it becoming -- some competitors are starting to disclose that information. So just checking if you can help us to understand a little bit this PIX? And then I will ask a second question?

我有一個關於 PIX P2M 的問題。我想知道您是否可以與我們分享任何信息，它的相關性如何——一些競爭對手已經開始披露這些信息。那麼請問您是否可以幫助我們稍微了解一下這個 PIX？然後我會問第二個問題？

This is Ricardo. Thank you for the question. Well, first of all, it's important to say that our take rates, we consider (inaudible) revenues, and we also consider PIX volumes in the denominator. We know some other players in the market that may differ, but we use the PIX revenues to our code, and we also use the PIX TPV denominator. We don't disclose exactly number or the volumes of PIX that we have, but they are similar to what you see in the market with other players. Yes, so as a percentage of TPV, it is very similar to what you see in other players in the market.

這是里卡多。感謝你的提問。嗯，首先，重要的是要說我們的收取率，我們考慮（聽不清楚）收入，並且我們還考慮分母中的 PIX 交易量。我們知道市場上的其他一些參與者可能會有所不同，但我們在代碼中使用 PIX 收入，我們也使用 PIX TPV 分母。我們沒有透露我們擁有的 PIX 的確切數量或數量，但它們與您在市場上看到的其他參與者類似。是的，所以就 TPV 的百分比而言，它與您在市場上其他參與者中看到的非常相似。

That clearly helps a lot. And on deposits, you already discussed in the previous question, but it was not very good, right? 20% quarter-over-quarter. This is not a seasonal quarter, right? It seems we're doing something differently. What are the drivers for this growth? Why was deposit stable for, I don't know, 3 quarters and now we are seeing deposits accelerating? What are you doing to bring these deposits (inaudible)?

這顯然有很大幫助。至於存款，你在上一個問題中已經討論過，但不是很好，對吧？環比增長 20%。這不是季節性季度，對吧？看來我們正在做一些不同的事情。這種成長的驅動因素是什麼？我不知道，為什麼存款連續三個季度保持穩定，但現在卻看到存款加速成長？您正在做什麼來帶來這些存款（聽不清楚）？

It's Artur speaking. Relating to deposits, it's not a silver bullet that we are doing. It's many things differently. The management is 100% focused on that because we know that it's important to us, increase the number of deposits. We are working to provide better service to the clients. The AAA rating that we received from S&P Global is also helping us to bring this money to the company in the cheapest way. TPV volume growing helped us because part of this deposit come from merchants. So it's several things that we are doing. And also, I can tell you that we increased the level of the features that we are offering to the clients and it is much better than in the past. And so many things that we are doing, it's not only one thing that brings this result to us.

說話的是阿圖爾。關於存款，這不是我們正在做的靈丹妙藥。很多事情都不同。管理層百分之百專注於此，因為我們知道增加存款數量對我們很重要。我們正在努力為客戶提供更好的服務。我們從 S&P Global 獲得的 AAA 評級也幫助我們以最便宜的方式為公司帶來這筆資金。 TPV 銷售量的成長對我們有幫助，因為部分存款來自商家。所以我們正在做幾件事。而且，我可以告訴你，我們提高了向客戶提供的功能水平，比過去好得多。我們正在做的很多事情，為我們帶來這個結果的不僅僅是一件事。

The next question comes from Kaio Prato with UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的 Kaio Prato。

Hello, everyone, and good evening. Thank you for questions. I have 2 on my side, please. First, on your reported losses this quarter. So we saw that the expected credit losses increased during the quarter, and you mentioned that it was related to some change regarding the IFRS 9. So I just would like to have more details here. What was the change? If this was a one-off effect or not? And also, still on losses, if you could better explain the drivers behind the sequential increase on chargebacks which surpassed the level of TPV growth. So just like to understand the drivers behind that.

大家好，晚上好。謝謝您的提問。我這邊有 2 個，請。首先，關於本季報告的虧損。因此，我們看到本季度的預期信用損失有所增加，您提到這與 IFRS 9 的一些變化有關。所以我想在這裡了解更多詳細資訊。有什麼變化？這是否是一次性效應？此外，仍然是虧損，如果您能更好地解釋退款連續增長超過 TPV 增長水平背後的驅動因素。所以只是想了解背後的驅動因素。

And if this is related to the prepayment product with instant settlement or not, if you are offering these nowadays or not? And the second question is related to the expectations for 2024. If you can provide us some details and if you expect to provide any type of guidance for the year, I don't know, in the coming quarters? That's it on my side.

這是否與即時結算的預付款產品有關，你們現在是否提供這些產品？第二個問題與 2024 年的預期有關。您是否可以向我們提供一些細節，以及您是否希望在未來幾個季度提供今年（我不知道）的任何類型的指導？我這邊就是這樣。

Artur speaking. Good to talk to you. Regarding to expected credit losses, this quarter, we had the impact of payroll loan and working capital loan IFRS 9 review. That increased the provisions. This is the explanation why we increased the provisions at this point. On a yearly basis, we use it to review the models to ensure we have the right level of provisions to cover expected losses or future expected losses.

阿圖爾在講話。很高興和你說話。關於預期信用損失，本季我們受到了工資貸款和營運資金貸款 IFRS 9 審核的影響。這增加了規定。這就是為什麼我們此時增加規定的原因。我們每年都會用它來審查模型，以確保我們有適當的準備金來彌補預期損失或未來預期損失。

But the most important point is the new credit originations are secured, which relies on a lower level of provisions going forward because we are increasing this origination related to secured products that will represent a lower provisions going forward. Regarding to chargebacks, we include their operational losses, we include other things related to issuing cards and chargebacks from online and POS chargebacks. If we compare the amount, okay, it's higher. But when we compare in terms of basis points, it is lower than the last year. That is most important to us because we are seeing that our fraud prevention is increasing.

但最重要的一點是，新的信貸發放是有擔保的，這依賴於未來較低水準的準備金，因為我們正在增加與擔保產品相關的發放，這將代表未來較低的準備金水準。關於退款，我們包括他們的營運損失，我們包括與發卡相關的其他事項以及線上退款和 POS 退款。如果我們比較一下金額，好吧，更高。但如果我們以基點來比較，則低於去年。這對我們來說最重要，因為我們看到我們的詐欺預防措施正在不斷加強。

Regarding 2024, Kaio, we still think it is a little bit early to give some color about 2024. But I would say to you that as Alex said in his speech, we are seeing very good growth in terms of volumes, TPV growth in Q4. We also expect the interest rate of the country is still to have another cut, maybe 25 or 50 bps at the beginning of December. So we are optimistic with Q4 to be a very good one.

關於2024 年，Kaio，我們仍然認為現在對2024 年進行一些描述還為時過早。但我想對你們說，正如Alex 在他的演講中所說，我們在第四季度的銷量和TPV 增長方面看到了非常好的成長。我們也預計該國的利率仍將再次下調，可能在 12 月初下調 25 或 50 個基點。因此，我們對第四季的表現持樂觀態度。

Usually in Q4, we have more volumes because of the holiday season with Black Friday and Christmas and so on. So we are very optimistic with Q4. And from there, we can give more color about 2024. But I mean we are confident it's going to be a good quarter as far as we have the previous numbers. We are in half of the quarter at this point. So we are optimistic about it.

通常在第四季度，由於黑色星期五和聖誕節等假期，我們的銷量會增加。所以我們對第四季非常樂觀。從那時起，我們可以對 2024 年給出更多的信息。但我的意思是，就我們之前的數據而言，我們有信心這將是一個不錯的季度。此時我們已進入本季的一半。所以我們對此持樂觀態度。

Next question comes from James Friedman with Susquehanna.

下一個問題來自薩斯奎哈納的詹姆斯·弗里德曼。

So Artur, just in response to the prior answer, because the IFRS issue came up with one of your competitors as well though it may have been for a different reason. But do you mind just elaborating on what you just said in the prior response about the impact of the working capital. And as you answer that, are there any other changes in IFRS that you're anticipating that we should also be aware of before they happen?

阿圖爾，只是為了回應先前的答案，因為國際財務報告準則問題也出現在您的競爭對手之一身上，儘管可能是出於不同的原因。但您介意詳細說明一下您剛才在先前的回覆中所說的關於營運資金影響的內容嗎？當您回答這個問題時，您預計我們也應該在 IFRS 發生任何其他變化之前了解這些變化嗎？

Thank you for the question. So the most relevant impact is related to the runoff operation of working capital. So we increased a little bit the provisions at this point. It's -- I would say that it's like a one-time impact in this quarter. We are not expecting any other change in the coming quarters.

感謝你的提問。因此，最相關的影響與營運資金的徑流運作有關。所以我們此時增加了一點規定。我想說，這就像本季的一次性影響。我們預計未來幾季不會發生任何其他變化。

Okay. Clear. And then just a kind of a higher-level question, but I realized for a while now, you have just on extent emphasized SMB to deemphasize the less structured long tail. But I'm just wondering if you're anticipating any additional consequences of that, whether it's -- how you see like the take rates evolving longer term or the additional opportunities that will create just as you transition the company that way for -- and I know it's a very open-ended and big-picture question, but as you move the company in that direction, how do you anticipate the financial results are going to evolve?

好的。清除。然後只是一個更高層次的問題，但我現在意識到，你只是在某種程度上強調了中小企業，而淡化了結構化程度較低的長尾。但我只是想知道你是否預計會產生任何額外的後果，無論是——你如何看待長期變化的採取率，或者當你以這種方式轉變公司時會創造的額外機會——以及我知道這是一個非常開放和宏觀的問題，但當你讓公司朝這個方向發展時，你預期財務表現將如何發展？

James, this is Ricardo. Just to be clear, we are not emphasizing the long tail. We're just saying that we're seeing a big opportunity in SMBs. As you can see, (inaudible) we are growing like SMBs 18% and long tail growing 9%, important in Slide #5. So we are growing -- even if we consider long-tail, we are growing 9%, which is the same growth of the industry. And remember, some of our long-tail clients, they become SMBs as time passes by.

詹姆斯，這是里卡多。要先明確的是，我們並不是強調長尾。我們只是說我們在中小企業中看到了巨大的機會。正如您所看到的，（聽不清楚）我們像中小企業一樣成長了 18%，長尾成長了 9%，這在幻燈片 #5 中很重要。所以我們正在成長——即使我們考慮長尾，我們也成長了 9%，這與產業的成長相同。請記住，隨著時間的推移，我們的一些長尾客戶變成了中小企業。

They keep working with us, at some point their businesses grow and then they become an SMB. So if you look at the composite of these 2 parts, both SMB and long tail are growing 15% which is like 60% more than what the industry grew in Q3. So it doesn't mean that we are deemphasized, but we are seeing a very good opportunity in SMBs as well, not only in acquiring but also in the banking side. We have a very strong, very powerful value proposition for this type of clients. That includes instant settlement, banking, (inaudible) software.

他們繼續與我們合作，在某個時候他們的業務不斷發展，然後他們成為中小企業。因此，如果你看一下這兩個部分的綜合情況，中小企業和長尾都成長了 15%，比第三季產業成長高出 60%。因此，這並不意味著我們不再受到重視，而是我們在中小企業中也看到了非常好的機會，不僅在收購方面，而且在銀行方面。對於這類客戶，我們有非常強大的價值主張。其中包括即時結算、銀行業務、（聽不清楚）軟體。

So that's why we see opportunities coming there. In terms of -- coming from there. In terms of financial results, as we tried to explain before, our take rates might go down as a percentage, but in absolute terms, it makes total sense because SMBs have much more volume when compared to long tails, sometimes 10x bigger. So as a percentage, the net rate is lower, but as absolute term, absolute dollars makes total sense. So that's why we keep growing. That's why in Q3, we had the highest net income of the company ever.

這就是為什麼我們看到那裡有機會。就——來自那裡而言。就財務表現而言，正如我們之前試圖解釋的那樣，我們的採用率可能會下降，但從絕對值來看，這是完全合理的，因為與長尾相比，中小企業的交易量要大得多，有時大10 倍。因此，從百分比來看，淨利率較低，但作為絕對術語，絕對美元是完全有意義的。這就是我們不斷成長的原因。這就是為什麼在第三季度，我們獲得了公司有史以來最高的淨利潤。

And we don't think that's going to change. I mean take rates might go down as we said before or maybe stabilize or slightly go down. But in absolute terms, we expect to keep growing. So that's the overall picture. We still see opportunities in long tail, and we also see opportunities in consumers as well. We keep growing in Q3 this year. If you look at net adds, PagBank was the best quarter of the year. So I mean, we still see some avenues of opportunities to explore going forward.

我們認為這不會改變。我的意思是，正如我們之前所說，採用率可能會下降，或者可能會穩定或略有下降。但從絕對值來看，我們預計將繼續成長。這就是總體情況。我們仍然看到長尾的機會，我們也看到消費者的機會。今年第三季我們持續成長。如果你看看淨增加，PagBank 是今年最好的季度。所以我的意思是，我們仍然看到一些未來探索的機會途徑。

Also, I would just like to complement that in this quarter, we had a record of POS sales since January 2022, with the highest POS activation since mid-2021.

另外，我想補充一點，在本季度，我們創下了自 2022 年 1 月以來的 POS 銷售記錄，並創下了自 2021 年中期以來最高的 POS 激活量。

Next question comes from Neha Agarwala with HSBC.

下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Neha Agarwala。

A few observations from your comments so far. It seems like on credit, you are not even testing or piloting the unsecured loan product at the moment because you are fully concentrated on the secured lending side. But first, is that right? Or it's something different? And I do not understand correctly. Because when we talk to most of the other players in the market, while they had been restricting originations so far, even the larger banks are now talking about the potential acceleration in growth.

到目前為止您的評論的一些觀察。看起來在信貸方面，您目前甚至沒有測試或試行無擔保貸款產品，因為您完全專注於擔保貸款方面。但首先，這是對的嗎？還是有什麼不同？我理解不正確。因為當我們與市場上的大多數其他參與者交談時，雖然他們迄今為止一直在限制發放，但即使是較大的銀行現在也在談論成長的潛在加速。

So I just want to understand that if you're not testing, if you're not open to lending in the unsecured market, then your competitors will be ahead of you when the market conditions improve. So what are your thoughts on that? And did I understand correctly that lending to the (inaudible) is not your priority because I would assume that the SMBs are probably less risky than the long tail when it comes to unsecured lending product, so clarification there. And this goes to my next question, which is on the take rate. The take rate has been coming down given the change in mix. And next year, you see more stability in terms of mix, so take rates should stabilize. But what about '25, '26, do you see take rates continue to come down due to competition? Or do you think new products like banking or credit would be able to offset any pressure on take rates from competition or lower rates? So some clarification on the trends there?

所以我只是想了解，如果你不進行測試，如果你不開放無擔保市場的貸款，那麼當市場狀況改善時，你的競爭對手將領先於你。那麼你對此有何看法？我是否正確理解，向（聽不清楚）貸款不是您的首要任務，因為我認為在無擔保貸款產品方面，中小企業的風險可能比長尾風險要小，所以需要澄清一下。這就是我的下一個問題，即接受率。由於組合的變化，採用率一直在下降。明年，您會看到混合方面更加穩定，因此採取率應該穩定。但是「25」、「26」呢？您是否認為由於競爭，轉換率繼續下降？或者您認為銀行或信貸等新產品能夠抵銷競爭或較低利率帶來的利率壓力嗎？那麼對那裡的趨勢有一些澄清嗎？

This is Ricardo. I'll try to address your question. If not clear, let me know. But we are testing unsecured credit for small volumes for some clients. And for -- we have some credit pilots, we are doing a small test for different clusters of clients. So we do have processes in place as we have the models, we have the billing process in place and so on. So we are testing that. But the point is even when you look at the credit cycle, as I said before, it seems getting better. It doesn't mean it is already the time to jump in. But it seems to be getting better.

這是里卡多。我會盡力回答你的問題。如果不清楚，請告訴我。但我們正在為一些客戶測試小額無擔保信貸。我們有一些信貸試點，我們正在針對不同的客戶群進行小型測試。因此，我們確實有適當的流程，因為我們有模型，我們有適當的計費流程等等。所以我們正在測試這一點。但關鍵是，正如我之前所說，即使你看看信貸週期，情況似乎也在好轉。這並不意味著現在已經是介入的時候了。但情況似乎正在變得更好。

Many, many big banks or the incumbent banks in Brazil, they had -- they struggled with NPLs in the previous quarters. Now in Q3, a little bit better for some of them, but it doesn't mean that it's time to jump in. We are ready to do that when you think it's the right time, when you think the risk return makes sense. But to be honest, we find a way with secured products that we are happy with that and we'll accelerate that as much as we can. It doesn't mean that we cannot make unsecured products in the near future.

巴西的許多大銀行或現有銀行在前幾個季度都在與不良貸款作鬥爭。現在到了第三季度，對其中一些人來說，情況好一點了，但這並不意味著是時候介入了。當你認為時機成熟，當你認為風險回報有意義時，我們就準備好這樣做。但說實話，我們找到了一種安全產品的方法，我們對此感到滿意，我們將盡我們所能加速這一過程。這並不意味著我們在不久的將來不能生產不安全的產品。

I'm just saying that's not the focus, but we do -- we are testing, just to answer your first question. In terms of SMBs, we see that we have a strong value proposition that doesn't require us to offer credit for these clients that we are getting our base. Of course, there could be some SMBs out there that they just want to have an acquiring company, there is any loan or lending offer and so on. But we don't see that as a block for us to keep growing. As I said before, in Slide 5, we are going like 18%, double of the industry in SMBs year-over-year.

我只是說這不是重點，但我們正在測試，只是為了回答你的第一個問題。就中小企業而言，我們看到我們擁有強大的價值主張，並不要求我們為我們的基礎客戶提供信貸。當然，可能有些中小企業只是想擁有一家收購公司，有任何貸款或貸款優惠等等。但我們並不認為這會成為我們持續成長的障礙。正如我之前所說，在投影片 5 中，我們的比例約為 18%，是中小型企業產業的兩倍。

Still a lot of room to grow in SMBs. We see there is bad service out there, and we can get these clients with the value proposition, instant settlement, digital free banking and so on. But we don't think that -- we don't have the plan to keep offering loans for the SMBs at this point. Regarding take rates, as we said, 2024 is likely downward stable. In 2025, 2026, it's hard to give you some visibility. But remember that as we grow our Financial Services business unit, we also are going to have a tailwind in our take rate because they're going to have more revenues with the same clients.

中小企業仍有很大的發展空間。我們看到那裡的服務很差，我們可以透過價值主張、即時結算、數位免費銀行等來吸引這些客戶。但我們不認為——我們目前沒有繼續向中小企業提供貸款的計劃。至於採取率，正如我們所說，2024 年可能會穩定下降。 2025年、2026年，很難給你一些能見度。但請記住，隨著我們金融服務業務部門的發展，我們的接受率也將順風順水，因為他們將從相同的客戶那裡獲得更多的收入。

So it's hard to say to you how it's going to be in 2025, 2026. But structurally saying, what we see at this point is TPV that we are seeing in Q4 is growing. Interest rate seems to go down, not only in Brazil but all over the world. So all the headwinds that we had like 2 years ago, we are seeing that they are disappearing or getting better as we look into the future.

所以很難告訴你 2025 年、2026 年會怎樣。但從結構上來說，我們目前看到的是冠捷在第四季正在成長。利率似乎在下降，不僅在巴西，而且在全世界。因此，當我們展望未來時，我們看到兩年前遇到的所有不利因素正在消失或變得更好。

So I mean, I cannot give you what's gonna be in 2025, 2026, but it seems like Q4 is going to be a good quarter and we expect to have a good 2024 as well.

所以我的意思是，我無法告訴您 2025 年、2026 年會發生什麼，但第四季度似乎將是一個不錯的季度，我們預計 2024 年也會有一個好的季度。

The next question comes from Joshua Siegler with Cantor Fitzgerald.

下一個問題來自約書亞·西格勒和坎托·菲茨杰拉德。

Nice print today. First of all, I was wondering if you could comment on how you're thinking about the longer-term capital allocation of the business given the cash generation you have going?

今天印得很好。首先，我想知道您是否可以評論一下，考慮到您擁有的現金產生能力，您如何考慮企業的長期資本配置？

Well, Josh, it's Artur speaking. Thank you for the question. Regarding to long-term capital allocation, what I can tell you is we are 100% focused and continue to delivering the results that we are delivering, growing quarter-over-quarter and using part of these results to reinvest in the company to reduce the dependency on other financial institutions to fund part of the operation. We have very good margins on advancing receivables to merchants, and we will continue doing that.

好吧，喬什，我是阿圖爾。感謝你的提問。關於長期資本配置，我可以告訴你的是，我們百分百專注，並繼續交付我們正在交付的成果，逐季度增長，並利用這些成果的一部分對公司進行再投資，以減少依賴其他金融機構為部分營運提供資金。我們在向商家預收應收帳款方面擁有非常高的利潤，我們將繼續這樣做。

On top of that, we have this buyback program that we expect to approve a new program in the coming months, and then we will inform to the market that we have a new program and the rules of this program. And at this point, we are not discussing dividends. So -- just our focus on continuing delivering results, investing part of this money to buy back shares, investing part of this money in the operations.

最重要的是，我們有這個回購計劃，我們預計將在未來幾個月內批准一個新計劃，然後我們將向市場通報我們有一個新計劃以及該計劃的規則。此時，我們不討論股息。因此，我們專注於繼續交付成果，將部分資金投入回購股票，並將部分資金投資於營運。

Great. That's helpful. And I just wanted to dive a little bit deeper into 2024, potential stabilization of take rate. Can you give us some more KPIs that would be integral to seeing that take rate really start to stabilize?

偉大的。這很有幫助。我只是想更深入地探討 2024 年，採用率可能趨於穩定。您能為我們提供更多關鍵績效指標（KPI）嗎？這些指標對於確保轉換率真正開始穩定至關重要？

Well, when we see, again, take rates, we have not stopped moving up market only to post higher take rates because by the end of the day, I think we have been showing quarter after quarter that as the company keeps moving your strategy to extend the services beyond long tail, this business looks accretive to EPS. What are the drivers for that? Primarily better spreads, given the deposit base by lowering our cost of funding structurally. And also the financial services uptrend in terms of revenues that can contribute positively to the take rate evolution moving forward.

好吧，當我們再次看到採用率時，我們並沒有停止向市場進軍，只是為了發布更高的採用率，因為到一天結束時，我認為我們已經一個又一個季度地表明，隨著公司不斷將策略轉向將服務擴展到長尾之外，這項業務看起來會增加每股收益。其驅動因素為何？主要是透過結構性降低我們的融資成本來改善存款基礎。金融服務收入的上升趨勢也可以對未來的利率演變做出積極貢獻。

Naturally, we expect in some point a much more stabilized TPV mix breaking down by merchant size than we have nowadays that necessarily should bring more stable take rates moving forward. But again, we are not looking take rates. We are looking merchants growth and how they contribute to the bottom line. If we look only take rates, we are losing the focus, which is necessarily grow with profitability by delivering EPS growth quarter-over-quarter and year-over -year.

當然，我們預期在某種程度上，以商家規模劃分的 TPV 組合會比現在更加穩定，這必然會帶來更穩定的採用率。但同樣，我們並不是在尋找佣金率。我們正在關注商家的成長以及他們如何為利潤做出貢獻。如果我們只關注利率，我們就會失去焦點，而焦點必然是透過實現每股盈餘季度環比和同比增長來實現盈利能力的成長。

Okay. That's very helpful, Eric. And congrats again on the quarter.

好的。這非常有幫助，埃里克。再次恭喜本季。

The next question comes from Soomit Datta with New Street Research.

下一個問題來自 New Street Research 的 Soomit Datta。

And great, great numbers. Just on that point, it seems like the momentum in the business in Q3 and in early Q4 is really strong. You talked about some initiatives in the first half of the year really coming through. I mean just to dig into that in a bit more detail, you talked about some promotional pricing being part of that. Maybe just help us understand what else you've done and what else is happening to continue that TPV momentum would be helpful. And then I have a quick follow-up, please.

數量非常非常多。就這一點而言，第三季和第四季初的業務勢頭似乎非常強勁。您談到上半年的一些措施確實取得了成效。我的意思是為了更詳細地探討這一點，您談到了一些促銷價格是其中的一部分。也許只是幫助我們了解您還做了什麼以及正在發生什麼來繼續 TPV 的勢頭就會有所幫助。然後我會快速跟進。

Thank you for the question. Good to hear. It's Ricardo. The promotions that we have, we always have promotions all the time depending on the seasonality, if it's a holiday, if it's a Black Friday, we always have promotional prices. But -- at the end of the day, the idea is to have a driver to get new clients that are looking for specific promotions, specific features, specific, I don't know, pricing structure. But to be honest, this promotion doesn't move the needle because they are very small in terms of the TPV that they have today.

感謝你的提問。很高興聽到。這是里卡多。我們的促銷活動，我們總是根據季節進行促銷，如果是假期，如果是黑色星期五，我們總是有促銷價格。但是，歸根結底，我們的想法是有一個驅動力來吸引新客戶，這些客戶正在尋找特定的促銷、特定的功能、特定的（我不知道）定價結構。但說實話，這次促銷並沒有起到什麼作用，因為就目前的 TPV 而言，他們的規模非常小。

So we have BRL 100 billion in TPV in Q3. So imagine that we are getting new clients, but they are a small portion of the total. So I don't think that, to be honest, these promotions will move the needle in terms of, I don't know, take rates going down (inaudible) so on because it's like very small when compared to the whole volumes. What we do have is like when you go to mix of clients shifting towards SMBs because, again, they have much more volume than long tail, although they have a lower take rate, it does makes sense for us to go for these clients because they use not only the acquiring, but we are getting more penetration of digital banking in these clients.

因此，第三季我們的 TPV 為 1000 億雷亞爾。想像一下，我們正在獲得新客戶，但他們只佔總數的一小部分。所以說實話，我不認為這些促銷活動會帶來什麼影響，我不知道，利率下降（聽不清楚）等等，因為與總量相比，它的影響非常小。我們所擁有的情況就像是當你轉向中小型企業的客戶組合時，因為它們的數量比長尾大得多，儘管它們的採用率較低，但對我們來說，選擇這些客戶確實有意義，因為它們不僅使用收單方式，而且我們還在這些客戶中進一步普及數位銀行業務。

And as time passes by, we can cross-sell more products to them. So going back to your question, we do have promotions all the time depending on the type of clients, depending on some period that we have, related sometimes limit to volumes, sometimes the promotion is only debit, other times in credit. So we always have promotions. And we -- sometimes we may have more than one promotion at the same time. It's very common. So it's not an issue and it's not something new. What it seems that you are getting more clients, more SMBs, they are getting mature.

隨著時間的推移，我們可以向他們交叉銷售更多產品。回到你的問題，我們確實一直在進行促銷，具體取決於客戶的類型，取決於我們的某些時期，有時與數量有關，有時促銷僅借記，其他時候以貸記形式。所以我們總是有促銷活動。有時我們可能會同時進行不只一項促銷活動。這很常見。所以這不是一個問題，也不是什麼新鮮事。看起來你正在獲得更多的客戶、更多的中小企業，他們正在變得成熟。

Some of them may be using other (inaudible) now they're using us more and more because they have this (inaudible) and so on. So -- but as you said in your question, we are having a good momentum in our view and growing more in the market quarter-over-quarter and a strong TPV growth in Q4 as well.

他們中的一些人可能正在使用其他的（聽不清楚），現在他們越來越多地使用我們，因為他們有這個（聽不清楚）等等。所以，正如您在問題中所說，我們認為我們的勢頭良好，市場季度環比增長更多，第四季度 TPV 也強勁增長。

Okay. That's clear. And quick follow-up, if possible, please. Again, just referring back to Slide 5, when there's a bit of granularity on the different segments. Can you just maybe help us understand how much of the volume is SMB today? And can you remind us of what the cutoff is, what the definition is of SMB versus long tail is. And then just finally, the chart on the right-hand side showing the relative growth rates, not sort of precisely, but is that broadly how you'd expect to see the kind of relative segments going forward, that relative difference between the 3?

好的。很清楚。如果可能的話，請快速跟進。再次回到投影片 5，不同的部分有一定的細微度。您能否幫助我們了解當今 SMB 的交易量有多少？您能否提醒我們界線是什麼，中小企業與長尾的定義是什麼？最後，右側的圖表顯示了相對成長率，雖然不太精確，但大致上是您期望看到的相對細分市場的類型，即三者之間的相對差異？

We do expect SMBs to grow more in TPV because, again, they have more absolute TPV than other clients that you have the long tail. We are seeing good momentum in the SMBs. And as I said before, some of their clients, they became SMB. So that's why once they reach some level of TPV, they go to the SMB niche or cluster, so to say here. So that's why SMBs may take advantage of clients that are growing within our base. But yes, we do expect SMBs to grow more than long tail (inaudible) the same difference that you have in this Slide #5.

我們確實預期中小型企業的 TPV 會成長更多，因為他們比其他長尾客戶擁有更多的絕對 TPV。我們看到中小企業的良好勢頭。正如我之前所說，他們的一些客戶成為了中小企業。這就是為什麼一旦他們達到一定的 TPV 水平，他們就會進入 SMB 利基或集群，可以這麼說。這就是為什麼中小型企業可以利用我們基地內不斷成長的客戶。但是，是的，我們確實預期中小型企業的成長速度將超過長尾（聽不清楚），與投影片 #5 中的差異相同。

But if you expect SMB TPV to grow more than long-tail (inaudible). Anything else? I don't know if I answered fully your question.

但如果您預期 SMB TPV 的成長速度會超過長尾（聽不清楚）。還要別的嗎？我不知道我是否完全回答了你的問題。

I just wondered, did you have to cut off the TPV definitions between SMB and long tail and enterprise, that would be helpful?

我只是想知道，您是否必須切斷 SMB、長尾和企業之間的 TPV 定義，這會有幫助嗎？

We don't disclose exactly the level of each one. But you may expect that long tail with more clients and SMBs, you have a small business with a few employees and so on. So we don't have to exactly give a number, we don't disclose that, but it's similar to what some other players in the market, they disclose. And usually, the TPV from SMBs are 5 to 10x larger than long tail.

我們不會透露每個人的具體程度。但您可能會期望擁有更多客戶和中小企業的長尾，您擁有一家只有少數員工的小型企業等等。因此，我們不必給出確切的數字，我們不會透露這一點，但這與市場上其他一些參與者所揭露的類似。通常，中小企業的 TPV 比長尾大 5 到 10 倍。

The next question comes from Pedro Leduc with Itau BBA.

下一個問題來自 Itau BBA 的 Pedro Leduc。

So congrats on the quarter and good disclosure. Question quickly on the selling expenses that have been quite controlled year-to-date, but they seem to have moved up in 3Q and looking at almost 20% Q-on-Q jump. I'm wondering if it's related to that heavy activation of POS that you mentioned more recently or if it has to do with the greater SMB profile, again, essentially trying to (inaudible) of your total cost and expenses, but this line, in particular, everything else was quite controlled. This one caught our attention. Just wondering if there's any specifics here you want to share with us?

因此，請祝賀本季的業績和良好的披露。快速質疑今年迄今已獲得相當控制的銷售費用，但他們似乎在第三季度有所上升，並且環比增長近 20%。我想知道這是否與您最近提到的POS 的大量激活有關，或者是否與更大的SMB 配置文件有關，再次，本質上是試圖（聽不清）您的總成本和費用，但是這條線，在特別是，其他一切都受到了很好的控制。這引起了我們的注意。只是想知道您是否想與我們分享任何具體細節？

Well, Pedro, thank you for your question. It's Artur speaking. It's a mix of things in this line moving up, moving down. We have a little bit of sales force increase in the last months of the quarter. That is pushing a little bit this line up. But also we increased the level of chargebacks and provisions for credit. And so the most relevant impact is coming from total losses.

好吧，佩德羅，謝謝你的問題。說話的是阿圖爾。這是這條線上的各種事物的混合體，向上移動，向下移動。在本季的最後幾個月，我們的銷售人員有所增加。這有點推動了這條線。但我們也提高了退款水準和信貸準備金。因此，最相關的影響來自於總損失。

Exactly, Pedro, because by the end of the day, even though chargebacks as a percentage of total payments has decreased 1 basis point in comparison to Q3 '22, naturally, it grows with TPV, but also the higher level of expected credit losses given the credit model update accordingly to the IFRS 9 that made us to additionally increase our provisions in the short term. We had also an increase in sales force, reinforcing in some geographies or operations, a slightly increase. So necessarily when we combine all of these deployments necessarily, we had this kind of trend in Q3.

確切地說，佩德羅，因為到一天結束時，儘管拒付佔總付款的百分比與22 年第三季度相比下降了1 個基點，但它自然會隨著TPV 的增長而增長，而且考慮到預期信用損失的水平也較高根據 IFRS 9 進行的信貸模型更新使我們在短期內額外增加了撥備。我們也增加了銷售隊伍，加強了某些地區或業務，略有增加。因此，當我們將所有這些部署結合起來時，我們在第三季必然會出現這種趨勢。

Super clear because indeed, personnel expenses doesn't look like to have gone up that line specifically but (inaudible). Much appreciated, Eric and Artur. Thank you.

非常清楚，因為確實，人員費用看起來並沒有特別上升，但是（聽不清楚）。非常感謝，埃里克和阿圖爾。謝謝。

The next question comes from Alexander Markgraff with KeyBanc.

下一個問題來自 KeyBanc 的 Alexander Markgraff。

Just one for me. I was wondering if you all could comment on a metric that you disclosed in the past, the clients using PagBank as a primary bank. I don't think you've shared it for a couple of quarters. Just wanted to get your observations around that metric, both for consumers and merchants?

只給我一個。我想知道你們是否可以評論一下你們過去披露的一個指標，即使用 PagBank 作為主要銀行的客戶。我想你已經有幾個季度沒有分享過它了。只是想了解您對消費者和商家對該指標的觀察嗎？

Alex, this is Ricardo. We -- you're right, we don't have the information here, but we used to have like 60% using that in the consumers and 50% in the merchants. That didn't change too much. It might grow a little bit amount and so on, but it's -- you can -- I don't have the numbers on top of my mind here, but you can consider that as the same level, 60% for consumers and 50% for merchants using PagBank as the primary bank.

亞歷克斯，這是里卡多。我們——你是對的，我們這裡沒有相關信息，但我們過去有 60% 的消費者使用該信息，50% 的商家使用該信息。這並沒有改變太多。它可能會增加一點點等等，但它是 - 你可以 - 我這裡沒有想到這些數字，但你可以將其視為同一水平，60％為消費者，50％為消費者適用於使用PagBank 作為主要銀行的商戶。

Okay. And is that true as well for the newer cohorts that have onboarded?

好的。對於新加入的群體也是如此嗎？

Yes, that is true for the newer cohorts. To be honest, for some of them is even higher, but you can consider very similar to what we had.

是的，對於新群體來說確實如此。老實說，有些甚至更高，但你可以認為與我們的非常相似。

The next question comes from Sheriq Sumar with Evercore ISI.

下一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 Sheriq Sumar。

It's nice to see the trajectory on the margins. I just wanted to get a sense as to how should we think about for next year in terms of the margin trajectory as to how focused is PAGS on driving margin expansion? And also on the operating expense side, also, like we saw a nice decline as a percentage of top line to like 14.5%. I mean I know you kind of also answered to that. But is there like a target on that as to what's the baseline for that, which we could see for 2024 and even for the fourth quarter as well?

很高興看到邊緣的軌跡。我只是想了解我們應該如何考慮明年的利潤軌跡以及 PAGS 對推動利潤擴張的關注程度如何？在營運費用方面，我們也看到收入百分比大幅下降，降至 14.5% 左右。我的意思是我知道你也回答了這個問題。但是否有一個目標，即我們可以在 2024 年甚至第四季看到的基線是什麼？

Thank you for the question. I'll let Artur in a few minutes for him to complement. But in terms of margins, it's also worth to say and to remember everyone that we are the most profitable company in this market if you consider TPV for every real or every dollar that you have in volumes, transaction in our POS devices or online solutions, we are the one that translate that in profits in the bottom line more than any other player.

感謝你的提問。我會讓阿圖爾幾分鐘後讓他補充。但就利潤率而言，也值得一提並記住的是，如果您將TPV 的每一筆實際金額或每一美元的交易量、我們POS 設備或線上解決方案中的交易量考慮到TPV，那麼我們是這個市場上最賺錢的公司，我們比任何其他參與者都更能將這一點轉化為利潤。

So relevant to our competitors, we have the -- we are the most profitable company in this market. So margin is a consequence of what you're doing and what you're growing in terms of clients. And as we said, as we have this mix shifting from less to long tail and more to SMBs, we see that the net take rate is lower, but in absolute terms, it's higher. So in dollars, in absolute dollars it is higher. So we don't look to margins as the main driver for the company because at the end of the day, what we want to do is to have EPS accretion.

與我們的競爭對手如此相關，我們擁有——我們是這個市場上最賺錢的公司。因此，利潤是你所做的事情以及你的客戶成長的結果。正如我們所說，隨著這種組合從較少轉向長尾和更多轉向中小企業，我們看到淨採用率較低，但從絕對值來看，它較高。所以以美元計算，以絕對美元計算，它更高。因此，我們並不將利潤率視為公司的主要驅動力，因為歸根究底，我們想要做的是增加每股盈餘。

And this quarter, we had 7% EPS accretion quarter-over-quarter and 10% EPS accretion year-over-year. So that's the main driver that we look for to generate value to our shareholders, EPS accretion. Margin is kind of the consequence. But to be honest, it's not the main focus. And you can see that the margins are very stable in the past quarters. Even this quarter, we grew like 10 bps. So that's the main view how we see margins. But Artur can give you more color to you.

本季度，我們的每股盈餘環比成長 7%，年增 10%。因此，每股盈餘的增加是我們尋求為股東創造價值的主要驅動力。利潤是一種結果。但說實話，這不是重點。你可以看到過去幾季的利潤率非常穩定。即使在這個季度，我們的成長也達到了 10 個基點。這就是我們看待利潤率的主要觀點。但Artur可以給你更多的色彩。

Okay. As Dutra was saying, we will keep growing our business in payments, in financial services and all of the segments are contributing to the bottom line. We had all-time high net income GAAP and non-GAAP this quarter that we are proud on announcing that. We are not putting a lot of focus on margins, but in nominal growth, yes, we are focused on that. And it's true that going forward, lower interest rates and better performance in financial services can help us to increase margins. We are not providing any guidance for the future.

好的。正如杜特拉所說，我們將繼續發展支付、金融服務領域的業務，所有領域都將為獲利做出貢獻。本季我們的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 淨利潤創歷史新高，我們很自豪地宣布這一點。我們並沒有過多關注利潤率，但在名目成長方面，是的，我們關注這一點。確實，展望未來，更低的利率和更好的金融服務表現可以幫助我們提高利潤。我們不為未來提供任何指導。

But it's true that those 2 things and the focus on reducing expenses and continue to grow in both business can help us to deliver that.

但確實，這兩件事以及對減少開支和業務持續成長的關注可以幫助我們實現這一目標。

The next question comes from Tito Labarta with Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的蒂托·拉巴塔（Tito Labarta）。

Just a follow-up on the Slide 5. Thanks for the disclosure on the growth side, the different segments. And I know you mentioned that SMB probably still grows faster. But should we expect some type of conversions between SMB and long tail, just in the sense for the take rate to stabilize, they probably have to begin to stabilize. So there could be some deceleration in SMB and maybe some acceleration in long tail. And maybe not a completely fair question, but one of your competitors gave some long-term guidance on 30% CAGR and SMB TPV growth.

只是投影片 5 的後續內容。感謝您對成長面、不同細分市場的揭露。我知道您提到中小企業可能仍然成長得更快。但是，如果我們預期中小企業和長尾之間會出現某種類型的轉換，就拿取率穩定而言，它們可能必須開始穩定。因此，中小型企業可能會出現一些減速，而長尾可能會出現一些加速。也許這不是一個完全公平的問題，但您的一位競爭對手給了一些關於 30% CAGR 和 SMB TPV 成長的長期指引。

Just you're growing 15%. But how do you think about the sustainability of the micro and SMB TPV over time? You think you should be able to gain share, growing up of the market is like a mid-teens type TPV growth sustainable over the coming years?

只是你成長了 15%。但您如何看待微型和中小型冠捷科技隨著時間的推移的可持續性？您認為您應該能夠獲得份額，市場的成長就像 TPV 在未來幾年可持續的成長一樣？

I will start backwards and then Eric or Artur can talk about take rates. We always say that we try to go more than the industry in a profitable way, and we try to keep doing that in following years. So we kind of decelerate a little bit our TPV in Q1 this year or a little bit in Q2. But in Q3, we saw this rebound again. Q4, we have fair numbers in the first 45 days, and we will try to keep growing more than the industry in a profitable way in the niches that we decide to grow, which is SMBs, long tail and SMBs. Of course, if you look at TPV, we have relatively more penetration in long tail than SMBs related to the market.

我將從倒退開始，然後埃里克或阿圖爾可以談論採取率。我們總是說，我們試圖以盈利的方式超越行業，我們將在接下來的幾年中繼續這樣做。因此，我們今年第一季或第二季的 TPV 略有放緩。但在第三季度，我們再次看到了這種反彈。第四季度，我們在前 45 天內有相當多的數字，我們將努力在我們決定成長的利基市場（中小型企業、長尾企業和中小型企業）中以盈利的方式繼續超過行業增長。當然，如果你看看冠捷，我們在長尾方面的滲透率相對於與市場相關的中小企業要高。

So that's why SMBs TPV grow more when compared to long tail. We keep working on these 2 different niches, so to say, but we really have lower exposure to SMBs at this point, and that's why we are growing. And we don't see good service out there that we need to grow there and decrease prices and so on. We can go there with our value proposition. We try not to compete with price. And looking forward, the long-term view here is to keep growing more than the industry in the niches that we decide to play.

這就是為什麼中小型企業的 TPV 比長尾成長更快。可以這麼說，我們一直致力於這兩個不同的利基市場，但目前我們對中小企業的接觸確實較低，這就是我們不斷成長的原因。我們沒有看到良好的服務，因此我們需要在那裡發展並降低價格等等。我們可以帶著我們的價值主張去那裡。我們盡量不與價格競爭。展望未來，我們的長期觀點是在我們決定涉足的利基市場中保持比行業更快的成長。

If there is a huge growth in large accounts and we don't grow in this type of client, that's fine. We will play in SMBs. We cannot comment on some of other company's CAGR and we don't know what is the assumption behind that. But our view is to keep growing more than the industry in this niche in SMBs.

如果大客戶數量大幅成長，而我們的這類客戶卻沒有成長，那也沒關係。我們將在中小企業中發揮作用。我們無法評論其他公司的複合年增長率，我們也不知道背後的假設是什麼。但我們的觀點是，在中小型企業這一利基市場中，持續維持超過產業的成長速度。

And one of the things, Tito, that if the CAGR is a reality, I think this is positive news, especially for new players like us, right? Because by the end of the day, when we look at the small and medium businesses despite we see much more companies talking about this existing opportunity, we have the merchant acquiring and digital bank fully integrated. We have been growing almost 20% year-over-year. So there is still further room to keep growing on that. And necessary, if it's feasible, that's good. It implies to say that the economic outlook and the industry trend should continue to improve as we saw in Q3 in comparison to Q2. This also implies that the card penetration should increase and necessarily our market share gains in all segments and overall market share.

其中一件事，蒂托，如果複合年增長率成為現實，我認為這是一個積極的消息，特別是對於像我們這樣的新玩家來說，對嗎？因為歸根結底，當我們審視中小型企業時，儘管我們看到更多的公司在談論這一現有機會，但我們已經將商家收單和數位銀行完全整合在一起。我們的年成長近 20%。因此，這方面仍有進一步成長的空間。而且是必要的，如果可行的話，那就好。這意味著經濟前景和行業趨勢應該會繼續改善，正如我們在第三季度看到的那樣，與第二季度相比。這也意味著卡片的滲透率應該會增加，並且必然會增加我們在所有細分市場和整體市場份額中的市場份額。

So I think it's a good message when we hear that the outlook for the next years is competitive because the opportunity primarily will be for the new players like us. And secondly, we have the advantage of having the lower average cost of funding similar to bank acquirers, and we have a value proposition similar or better than the new players. So we have this vast combination. So this is why, again, we are not looking for take rates because when we look at the total addressable market, it's huge, right?

因此，當我們聽說未來幾年的前景充滿競爭時，我認為這是一個很好的訊息，因為機會主要是為像我們這樣的新玩家提供的。其次，我們的優勢是與銀行收購者類似，平均融資成本較低，而且我們的價值主張與新參與者類似或更好。所以我們有了這個巨大的組合。因此，這就是為什麼我們不再尋找轉換率，因為當我們查看整個潛在市場時，它是巨大的，對嗎？

We only have 10% to 11% market share. So we are aiming to explore this market share. And when we look at the take rate trajectory, again, it will depend on mix. Right now, we have seen better momentum on all the segments if we grow faster in large accounts, and necessarily, there will be a take rate trajectory differently, right? If it's accretive to bottom line, that's amazing, right? So this is what we are looking for, and this is what we are working for. So thank you so much.

我們只有10%到11%的市佔率。所以我們的目標就是開拓這個市場佔有率。當我們再次觀察採用率軌跡時，它將取決於組合。現在，如果我們在大客戶方面成長得更快，我們在所有細分市場上都會看到更好的勢頭，並且必然會有不同的採用率軌跡，對嗎？如果它能增加利潤，那就太棒了，對吧？所以這就是我們正在尋找的，這就是我們正在努力的。非常感謝。

Great. That's helpful. Appreciate it. And just one follow-up kind of on the first point. But is it fair to say that for the take rate to stabilize, you do need a little bit of a conversions between the SMB and the long tail on the growth, just given the different dynamics there?

偉大的。這很有幫助。欣賞它。第一點，只有一個後續。但公平地說，為了使利用率穩定，你確實需要在中小企業和長尾成長之間進行一些轉換，只是考慮到那裡的不同動態？

It depends on how both segments work. It's early to say anything about conversions right now.

這取決於兩個部分如何運作。現在談論轉換還為時過早。

Yes. No, my question is more for the take rate to stabilize, you would need to see the growth be closer between the 2 segments, right? Because otherwise, if you keep growing faster in SMB just by nature, the take rate will come down. So take rate stabilization that you pointed to, they would be growing a little bit more at a fuller pace. That's just what I'm trying to understand?

是的。不，我的問題更多的是為了穩定使用率，您需要看到兩個細分市場之間的成長更加接近，對吧？因為否則的話，如果你本質上在中小型企業中保持更快的成長，那麼採用率就會下降。因此，以您指出的利率穩定為例，它們將以更充分的速度成長一點。這正是我想理解的？

Tito, we are not concerned about take rates. We are concerned about profit growth necessarily as the convergence of SMBs, micro-merchants and overall market share breaking down in large accounts, SMBs and long tail. Necessarily, if this stabilizes, take rates stabilize. So it's -- we don't have right now any commentary on the convergence of take rates of SMBs and long tail. But while we can say it's for the long tails to necessarily keep growing their businesses, they can have better offerings if it makes sense, but we always evaluate the cross-selling opportunities and how to create a win-win relationship for merchant acquirement take rates and financial services revenues and what (inaudible) that we have here.

蒂托，我們不關心收費率。隨著中小企業、小型商家的整合以及大客戶、中小企業和長尾的整體市場份額的下降，我們必然擔心利潤成長。如果這種情況穩定下來，利率必然會穩定。所以，我們現在對中小企業和長尾的採用率趨同沒有任何評論。但是，雖然我們可以說長尾必然會繼續發展他們的業務，如果有意義的話他們可以提供更好的產品，但我們總是評估交叉銷售機會以及如何為商家獲取率創造雙贏關係和金融服務收入以及我們這裡擁有的（聽不清楚）。

Okay. I can follow up with more specific question.

好的。我可以跟進更具體的問題。

Thank you all very much. This concludes our Q&A section of the call. I'd like to turn the conference over back to the management for your closing remarks. Please go ahead.

非常感謝大家。我們的電話問答部分到此結束。我想將會議轉回給管理階層，請您致閉幕詞。請繼續。

Thank you very much for your participation in the call. Thank you for investing the time. Talk to you on the next call. Thank you very much.

非常感謝您參與此通話。感謝您投入時間。下次通話時再與您交談。非常感謝。

This concludes today's conference. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

今天的會議到此結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。