PagSeguro Digital Ltd (PAGS) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good evening. My name is Audir, and I will be your conference operator for today's call. Welcome to PagSeguro Digital earnings call for the second quarter of 2024.

晚安.我叫奧迪爾，我將擔任今天電話會議的會議接線生。歡迎參加 PagSeguro Digital 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。

The slide presentation for today's webcast is available on PagSeguro Digital's Investor Relations website at investors.pagbank.com. (Operator Instructions)

今天網路廣播的幻燈片簡報可在 PagSeguro Digital 的投資者關係網站 Investors.pagbank.com 上取得。（操作員說明）

Today's conference is being recorded and will be available on the company's IR website after the event is concluded. I would now like to turn the call over to your host, Éric Oliveira, Head of IR. Please go ahead, sir.

今天的會議正在錄製中，活動結束後將在該公司的 IR 網站上發布。現在我想將電話轉給主持人、IR 主管 Áric Oliveira。請繼續，先生。

Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining our second-quarter 2024 earnings call. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session.

大家好。感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。演講者發言後，將進行問答環節。

Before proceeding, let me mention that any forward-looking statements included in the presentation or mentioned on this conference call are based on currently available information and PagSeguro Digital's current assumptions, expectations and projections.

在繼續之前，請允許我提一下，演示文稿中包含的或本次電話會議中提到的任何前瞻性陳述均基於當前可用的信息以及 PagSeguro Digital 當前的假設、期望和預測。

While PagSeguro Digital believes that those are reasonable in view of currently available information, you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements as actual results may differ materially from those included in PagSeguro Digital earnings presentation or discussed on this conference call for a variety of reasons, including those described in the forward-looking statements and Risk Factors section of PagSeguro Digital's most recent annual report on Form 20-F and other filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which are available on PagSeguro Digital's Investor Relations website at investors.pagbank.com.

儘管PagSeguro Digital 認為，鑑於當前可用信息，這些內容是合理的，但請注意不要過分依賴這些前瞻性陳述，因為實際結果可能與PagSeguro Digital 收益演示中包含的內容或本次電話會議中討論的結果存在重大差異。關係網站上取得： Investors.pagbank.com。

Finally, I would like to remind you that during this conference call, the company may discuss non-GAAP measures. We present non-GAAP measures when we believe that the additional information is useful and meaningful to investors. The presentation of this non-GAAP financial information, which is not prepared under any comprehensive set of accounting rules or principles is not intended to be considered separately from, or as substitute for, our financial information prepared and presented in accordance with IFRS as issued by the IASB.

最後，我想提醒您，在本次電話會議期間，公司可能會討論非公認會計準則措施。當我們認為附加資訊對投資者有用且有意義時，我們會提出非公認會計準則衡量標準。本非公認會計原則財務資訊的列報並非根據任何全面的會計規則或原則編制，不應與我們根據 IFRS 頒布的財務報告準則編制和列報的財務資訊分開考慮或替代。

For more details, the foregoing non-GAAP measures and the reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable IFRS measures, are presented in the appendix of this webcast presentation and earnings release.

有關更多詳細信息，上述非 GAAP 衡量標準以及這些非 GAAP 財務衡量標準與最直接可比的 IFRS 衡量標準的調節，請參見本網絡廣播演示文稿和收益發布的附錄。

With that, let me turn the call over to Ricardo. Thank you.

現在，讓我把電話轉給里卡多。謝謝。

Hello, everyone, and thanks for joining our second quarter 2024 earnings call. Tonight, I have the company of Alex, our CEO; and Artur, our CFO. And I'm proud to announce the company had a very strong quarter with all-time high in key financial metrics, such as revenues and net income. Hence, you see many all-time highs at the beginning of the slides' titles throughout presentation.

大家好，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。今晚，我們的執行長 Alex 陪伴著我；還有我們的財務長阿圖爾。我很自豪地宣布，該公司的季度業績非常強勁，收入和淨利潤等關鍵財務指標創歷史新高。因此，在整個簡報過程中，您會在投影片標題的開頭看到許多歷史新高。

On this first section, I will share the main operational and financial highlights for the quarter. Starting with slide 4. Total revenue grew 19% year over year, reaching BRL4.6 billion, an all-time high quarter result with a strong TPV and revenue growth in all client segments. Our gross profit margin ended the quarter close to 40%, in line with the current guidance and 86 basis points increase in comparison to Q2 2023.

在第一部分中，我將分享本季的主要營運和財務亮點。從投影片 4 開始。總營收年增 19%，達到 46 億雷亞爾，創歷史最高季度業績，TPV 強勁，所有客戶細分市場收入均實現成長。本季末，我們的毛利率接近 40%，符合目前指引，與 2023 年第二季相比增加了 86 個基點。

On a year-to-date basis, we ended the semester with a gross profit margin of 40.3%. We also reached the all-time high net income in GAAP and non-GAAP basis, which reached BRL542 million, a 31% year-over-year growth. in the less bullet, we can see our EPS reached BRL1.68, 32% higher than Q2 2023, also an all-time high.

年初至今，本學期結束時，我們的毛利率為 40.3%。我們的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 淨利潤也創歷史新高，達到 5.42 億雷亞爾，年增 31%。在較小的項目中，我們可以看到我們的 EPS 達到了 1.68 巴西雷亞爾，比 2023 年第二季高出 32%，也是歷史新高。

Moving on to slide 5. We reached 31.6 million clients by the end of June, adding more than 2 million clients in the last 12 months with 17.7 million active clients. We also had an all-time deposit level reaching BRL34.2 billion, an impressive 87% increase year over year. This increase shows the power of our value proposition, which has been contributing to improved client engagement and to lower our cost of funding, supporting our profitability metrics.

繼續看投影片 5。截至 6 月底，我們的客戶數量達到 3,160 萬，在過去 12 個月內增加了超過 200 萬客戶，其中活躍客戶達到 1,770 萬。我們的歷史存款水準也達到了 342 億雷亞爾，年增了 87%，令人印象深刻。這一成長顯示了我們價值主張的力量，它有助於提高客戶參與度並降低我們的融資成本，支持我們的獲利指標。

Down in the slide, in the first bullet, we can see, we also had a AAA rating from Moody's. Now PagBank has AAA rating from both agencies, Moody's and S&P. Also worth to highlight in the bottom right of the slide, our PagBank app evaluation of 4.9 stars in App store and 4.8 in Google Play.

在投影片下方的第一個項目符號中，我們可以看到，我們還獲得了穆迪的 AAA 評級。現在 PagBank 獲得穆迪和標準普爾兩個機構的 AAA 評級。同樣值得在投影片右下角強調的是，我們的 PagBank 應用程式在 App store 的評價為 4.9 顆星，在 Google Play 的評價為 4.8 顆星。

Moving on to slide 6. We share some highlights of the payments and banking units. In payments, we have been able to maintain a strong growth and our TPV reached BRL124 billion, 34% year-over-year growth, 3 times more than the cards industry growth, which was 11%. We had strong growth in MSMBs and LMEC merchants as a result of our strategy of attracting merchants with monetization potential on financial services.

繼續看投影片 6。我們分享支付和銀行部門的一些亮點。在支付領域，我們能夠維持強勁成長，TPV 達到 1,240 億雷亞爾，年成長 34%，是卡片產業成長率（11%）的 3 倍。由於我們採取了吸引具有金融服務貨幣化潛力的商家的策略，我們的中小型企業和中小型企業和中小型企業商家實現了強勁成長。

On the banking side, in the mid-column, we can see our cash-in reached BRL76.4 billion, a 52% growth year over year, aligned to our strategy to successfully stimulate principality from our clients.

在銀行業務方面，在中間欄，我們可以看到我們的現金達到 764 億雷亞爾，年成長 52%，這與我們成功激發客戶本金的策略一致。

Our credit portfolio grew 11% year over year to BRL2.9 billion, the third consecutive quarter of expansion driven mainly by our credit underwriting on secured products. In the last two bullets, we can see our early prepayment of receivables from other acquirers will start now in Q3 and also our NPL 90 reached 3.2% in Q2 2024.

我們的信貸投資組合年增 11%，達到 29 億雷亞爾，這是連續第三個季度的擴張，主要是由我們對擔保產品的信貸承銷推動的。在最後兩個項目中，我們可以看到我們將從第三季開始提前預付其他收購者的應收帳款，並且我們的不良貸款 90 率在 2024 年第二季達到 3.2%。

Now I pass the word over to Alex for the commentaries on the business unit highlights for the quarter.

現在我將這個消息轉交給亞歷克斯，讓他對本季業務部門亮點進行評論。

Thank you, Ricardo. Hello, everyone. On this section, we will break down our business unit's performance through the second quarter of 2024.

謝謝你，里卡多。大家好。在本節中，我們將詳細分析我們業務部門截至 2024 年第二季的業績。

Starting with payments on slide 8, we show that our merchant acquiring business keeps growing faster than the industry with strong growth registered in all segments. TPV reached BRL124 billion in Q2 '24, growing 34% year over year, with TPV per merchant growing 42% on a yearly basis and active merchants on a 30 days criteria, excluding nano-merchants, grew 4% year over year. These results are a consequence of our strategy to expand our payments business focused on merchants' profile with better engagement and profitability.

從幻燈片 8 中的付款開始，我們表明我們的商家收單業務的成長速度一直快於產業，所有細分市場均出現強勁成長。2024 年第二季度，TPV 達到 1,240 億雷亞爾，年成長 34%，每個商家的 TPV 較去年同期成長 42%，以 30 天標準計算的活躍商家（不包括奈米商家）年增 4%。這些結果是我們擴大支付業務策略的結果，該策略專注於商戶形象，具有更好的參與度和獲利能力。

Moving on to slide 9. Let's look further into the MSMB segment, which gathers merchants with monthly TPV up to BRL1 million. MSMB's TPV grew 28% year over year, reaching BRL83.6 billion in the second quarter of 2024. The strong merchants gross adds positively contributed to this performance, combined with higher productivity and expansion in our HUBs resulting year-over-year TPV addition of BRL18.2 billion, which is 5 times larger than in the previous year.

繼續看投影片 9。讓我們進一步了解 MSMB 細分市場，該細分市場聚集了每月 TPV 高達 100 萬雷亞爾的商家。 MSMB的冠捷科技年比成長 28%，2024 年第二季達到 836 億雷亞爾。強勁的商家總成長對這一業績做出了積極貢獻，再加上我們中心的生產力提高和擴張，TPV 同比增加了 182 億雷亞爾，是上一年的 5 倍。

We have been recording strong POS sales across multiple channels and geographies, which is an important sign of how consistent and robust our current growth and performance are. This is only possible due to the unique value proposition that our company has for MSMB clients in Brazil.

我們在多個通路和地區的 POS 銷售一直表現強勁，這是我們當前成長和業績持續強勁的重要標誌。這之所以成為可能，是因為我們公司為巴西的 MSMB 客戶提供了獨特的價值主張。

Through unrivaled instant settlement solution, we offer the cheapest working capital source empowering businesses to thrive without financial strength. In addition, we provide a fully integrated platform combining a complete set of payment products, a broad suite of financial service and a comprehensive portfolio of embedded software solutions from more than 350 partners.

透過無與倫比的即時結算解決方案，我們提供最便宜的營運資金來源，使企業能夠在沒有財務實力的情況下蓬勃發展。此外，我們還提供一個完全整合的平台，結合了來自 350 多個合作夥伴的一整套支付產品、廣泛的金融服務和全面的嵌入式軟體解決方案組合。

On the next slide. Here on slide 10, we show how our TPV from LMEC segment has performed comprised by large merchants, e-commerce and cross-border clients. In the second quarter of 2024, this segment posted 50% TPV growth in comparison to Q2 '23, reaching BRL40.8 billion in volume accounting for approximately a third of our total TPV.

在下一張投影片上。在投影片 10 中，我們展示了由大型商家、電子商務和跨境客戶組成的 LMEC 部門的 TPV 的表現如何。2024 年第二季度，該細分市場的 TPV 與 23 年第二季度相比增長了 50%，銷量達到 408 億雷亞爾，約占我們總 TPV 的三分之一。

We are increasing our share of wallet on larger merchant, segment that gathers business with monthly TPV above BRL1 million with the strong growth on cards-not-present transactions, expanding our market beyond POS. We have also seen a strong TPV growth on new growth verticals in special our online segment with e-commerce and cross-border.

我們正在增加我們在大型商家錢包中的份額，該細分市場收集每月 TPV 超過 100 萬雷亞爾的業務，無卡交易強勁增長，從而將我們的市場擴展到 POS 之外。我們也看到冠捷在新成長垂直領域的強勁成長，特別是我們的電子商務和跨境線上細分市場。

Our online payments platform ensures trust and reliability for online clients and an integrated solution under the brand PagSeguro International for the cross-border segment.

我們的線上支付平台確保線上客戶的信任和可靠性，並為跨境市場提供 PagSeguro International 品牌的全面解決方案。

Moving on to the banking business on slide 11. Our strategy to provide a seamless experience combining payments, value-added service and banking through multiple interface for merchants and consumers continues to drive engagement up.

前往投影片 11 上的銀行業務。我們的策略是透過多種介面為商家和消費者提供將支付、增值服務和銀行業務相結合的無縫體驗，從而持續提高參與度。

These engagement increase resulted in over BRL76 billion in PagBank cash-in, composed by PIX, P2P, wire transfers and deposits through boletos and invoice into PagBank accounts from other financial institutions. Our active banking clients base reached 17.3 million customers, growing 5% year over year.

這些參與度的增加導致 PagBank 現金收入超過 760 億雷亞爾，包括 PIX、P2P、電匯和透過 boletos 存款以及從其他金融機構存入 PagBank 帳戶的發票。我們的活躍銀行客戶群達到 1,730 萬客戶，較去年同期成長 5%。

As a result, cash-in per active client, an important indicator of our client engagement grew 44% year over year, reaching BRL4,400 per client. The constant evolution of engagement is shown in the bottom right graph, which demonstrates the increasing penetration of our investments and credit products, expanding at a much faster pace than our active client base.

結果，每位活躍客戶的現金收入（我們客戶參與度的一個重要指標）年增了 44%，達到每位客戶 4,400 巴西雷亞爾。右下圖顯示了參與度的不斷演變，這表明我們的投資和信貸產品的滲透率不斷提高，其擴張速度遠遠快於我們的活躍客戶群。

On slide 12, we shared that deposits were up 87% compared to the second quarter of 2024, reaching a record of BRL34.2 billion, boosted by our AAA rating attributed by S&P Global, which enhanced our CDs distribution among retail and institutional investors, on and off-platform. Just last month, we received a AAA rating by Moody's as an additional sign of the financial strength of our banking platform.

在投影片12 上，我們分享了存款較2024 年第二季成長了87%，達到創紀錄的342 億雷亞爾，這得益於標準普爾全球給予我們的AAA 評級，這增強了我們在散戶和機構投資者中的CD 分配，平台內和平台外。就在上個月，我們獲得了穆迪的 AAA 評級，這是我們銀行平台財務實力的另一個標誌。

Checking accounts balance, the cheapest funding source and a key performance indicator to measure client engagement, grew 39% year over year, reaching BRL11.5 billion. Annual percentage yield for Checking accounts and total deposits remain compelling, creating a unique engine connecting pricing power without harming profitability by lowering the average cost of funding for the company. In this sense, as we grow deposits franchise, we are also exploring alternatives to further reduce the current cost of funding.

支票帳戶餘額是最便宜的資金來源，也是衡量客戶參與度的關鍵績效指標，年增 39%，達到 115 億雷亞爾。支票帳戶的年收益率和總存款仍然引人注目，創造了一個獨特的引擎，連接定價能力，而不會透過降低公司的平均融資成本來損害獲利能力。從這個意義上說，隨著我們擴大存款業務，我們也正在探索進一步降低目前融資成本的替代方案。

Moving on to the next slide. Slide 13 shows that our credit portfolio grows at a steady pace since presuming growth on Q3 '23. This quarter, it reached BRL2.9 billion with increasing share of secured products, which currently represent 80% of our book loan, promoting financial inclusion, education and important financing lines to our clients through these products. Our NPL 90, on the bottom right of the slide, demonstrates the improvement on our asset quality in the last 12 months, moving from 14.4% to 3.2%.

轉到下一張投影片。投影片 13 顯示，自假設 23 年第三季成長以來，我們的信貸投資組合以穩定的速度成長。本季度，擔保產品的份額達到 29 億雷亞爾，目前占我們圖書貸款的 80%，透過這些產品向我們的客戶促進金融包容性、教育和重要融資額度。幻燈片右下角的 NPL 90 顯示了過去 12 個月我們資產品質的改善，從 14.4% 升至 3.2%。

Now I turn over to Artur for the financial highlights of the second quarter of 2024. Artur, please?

現在我請 Artur 介紹 2024 年第二季的財務要點。阿圖爾，請嗎？

Thanks, Alexandre. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us in the call. In this last section of our presentation, I will share our consolidated financial results for the second quarter of 2024. Here on slide 15, I am proud to announce, once again, an all-time high quarterly net income, which reached BRL542 million on a non-GAAP basis, growing 31% versus Q2 '23, with non-GAAP earnings per share reaching BRL1.68.

謝謝，亞歷山大。大家好，感謝您加入我們的通話。在演示的最後一部分，我將分享 2024 年第二季的綜合財務表現。在投影片 15 上，我很自豪地再次宣布，季度淨利創歷史新高，以非 GAAP 計算，達到 5.42 億雷亞爾，比 2023 年第二季度增長 31%，非 GAAP 每股收益達到雷亞爾1.68。

Net income on a GAAP basis reached BRL504 million, in the second quarter, growing above 30% year over year with earnings per share on a diluted basis, marking BRL1.56, a 32% increase on yearly comparison. This result was especially driven by a strong operational and financial performance as shown in the coming slides.

第二季以公認會計原則計算的淨利達5.04億雷亞爾，年增30%以上，稀釋每股收益為1.56雷亞爾，較去年同期成長32%。這一結果尤其受到強勁的營運和財務表現的推動，如接下來的幻燈片所示。

Moving on to slide 16. Q2 '24 total revenue and income growth accelerated to 19% on a yearly basis, positively impacted by higher volumes from acquiring and the acceleration of our banking platform. Consolidated gross profit margin keeps in line with the current guidance, reaching 40.3% over the total revenue on a year-to-date basis as we have been successful in balancing growth on all segments and profitability, driven by the execution of our strategy, focus on clients with better unit economics and higher engagement.

繼續看投影片 16。24 年第二季總營收和營收年增率加速至 19%，受到收購量增加和我們銀行平台加速的正面影響。綜合毛利率與當前指導保持一致，年初至今達到總收入的 40.3%，因為在戰略執行的推動下，我們成功地平衡了所有部門的增長和盈利能力，重點關注面向具有更好單位經濟效益和更高參與度的客戶。

Looking at our business segments. In the graph on the right side, payments revenue reached BRL4.1 billion, a 17% year-over-year growth, with a gross profit margin marking 38%. Banking revenue grew 41% year over year, mostly driven by interest income from credit, float from cash position combined to service fees linked to client engagement with a higher profitability.

看看我們的業務部門。右圖中，支付收入達41億雷亞爾，年增17%，毛利率達38%。銀行收入年增 41%，主要是由信貸利息收入、現金頭寸浮動以及與盈利能力較高的客戶參與相關的服務費推動的。

Gross profit from our banking segment remains at 60% or higher for the third consecutive quarter. It is important to mention that the gross profit margin in banking is higher than payments even based on our strategy of underwriting mostly secured credit products that naturally presents low yields combined to high yields paid on deposits to attract and engage new clients in the short term.

銀行業務毛利連續第三個季度維持在60%以上。值得一提的是，即使基於我們承保的主要是擔保信貸產品的策略，銀行業的毛利率仍高於支付業務，這些產品自然呈現出低收益率與存款支付的高收益率相結合，以在短期內吸引和吸引新客戶。

In the next slide, we share how our discipline in capital allocation has been an important tool to balance growth and profitability, leading to higher value creation with an earnings before tax growth of almost 20% this quarter versus the same quarter of last year. Here, let me focus on our cost breakdown and operating expenses and what do we expect moving forward.

在下一張投影片中，我們將分享我們的資本配置紀律如何成為平衡成長和獲利能力的重要工具，從而創造更高的價值，本季稅前利潤與去年同期相比成長近 20%。在這裡，讓我重點介紹一下我們的成本明細和營運費用以及我們對未來的期望。

I would like to start by highlighting the increasing efficiency coming from our main costs, including transaction and financial costs. Transaction costs decreased more than 11 basis points as a percentage of TPV, benefiting from the TPV mix driven by a higher share of PIX. On a similar trend, financial costs also show a positive performance of 16 basis points as a percentage of TPV, mainly due to our powerful deposit franchise. We expect to keep this trend in the next quarters.

首先，我想強調我們的主要成本（包括交易和財務成本）所帶來的效率不斷提高。交易成本佔 TPV 的百分比下降了超過 11 個基點，受益於 PIX 份額增加推動的 TPV 組合。同樣的趨勢，財務成本佔 TPV 的百分比也呈現出 16 個基點的正面表現，這主要歸功於我們強大的存款業務。我們預計未來幾季將保持這一趨勢。

Operating expenses remained at 26% of our total revenue and income, same level of last quarter. The year-over-year increase was mainly driven by marketing expenses to acquire new payment clients and distribute financial services and personnel expenses, reflecting the strengthening of our sales force concluded at the end of Q1 '24.

營運費用占我們總收入和收入的 26%，與上季持平。同比增長主要是由獲取新支付客戶和分銷金融服務的營銷費用以及人員費用推動的，這反映出我們在 2024 年第一季末加強了銷售隊伍。

The expansion was aimed at supporting the company's current growth cycle with a positive impact on our TPV. The increase is on the quarterly basis as most of those initiatives are already concluded or should register a more stable trajectory, thus creating opportunity for operating leverage in the next coming quarters.

此次擴張旨在支持公司當前的成長週期，並對我們的冠捷產生積極影響。這一成長是按季度進行的，因為大多數舉措已經完成或應該呈現出更穩定的軌跡，從而為未來幾季的營運槓桿創造機會。

The year-over-year increase in D&A and POS write-off in nominal terms, is aligning to the current capital expenditure cycle and is steady in comparison to the previous quarter. It is important to highlight that tax efficiency initiatives are part of our strategic plan and are running well above expectations, reducing income tax charges. This quarter, we have successfully advanced in optimizing our tax structure abroad and the use of Lei do Bem benefits.

以名目價值計算，D&A 和 POS 沖銷的同比增長與當前資本支出週期一致，並且與上一季相比保持穩定。需要強調的是，稅收效率舉措是我們戰略計劃的一部分，並且其運作遠遠超出預期，從而降低了所得稅費用。本季度，我們在優化國外稅收結構和利用 Lei do Bem 福利方面取得了成功。

Considering the volume growth level, also above expectations, and efficiencies identified as mentioned before, during the second quarter, we decided to further improve our client experience and actively address clients' needs by strengthening our initiatives in customer care, product development and service level agreements, which increased operating expenses.

考慮到數量成長水準也高於預期，以及前面提到的效率，我們決定在第二季度透過加強客戶關懷、產品開發和服務水準協議方面的舉措，進一步改善客戶體驗並積極滿足客戶的需求，這增加了營運費用。

However, we are confident that these investments will return in higher client engagement, strong cross-selling, lower churn and a larger profit to be captured in the coming years as the cohorts mature, without impacting 2024 net income guidance.

然而，我們相信，隨著這些群體的成熟，這些投資將在未來幾年內帶來更高的客戶參與度、強勁的交叉銷售、更低的客戶流失率和更大的利潤，而不會影響2024年淨利指引。

Moving on to slide 18, we show how solid it is the capital structure for this PAGS momentum. Equity position expanded to BRL14.3 billion with a retained earnings representing 62% of the total, which demonstrates the success of our strategy of best balancing growth and profitability.

繼續看投影片 18，我們展示了 PAGS 勢頭的資本結構是多麼穩固。股權部位擴大至143億雷亞爾，留存收益佔總額的62%，證明了我們最佳平衡成長和獲利能力的策略的成功。

Cash and financial investments ended the second quarter of 2024 with BRL6.2 billion within the 40% to 50% range of our equity balance, which is what we consider a good reference for a recurrent level.

截至 2024 年第二季度，現金和金融投資為 62 億雷亞爾，占我們股本餘額的 40% 至 50% 範圍，我們認為這是經常性水準的良好參考。

Here we highlight, as mentioned in the previous call, that in the last week of March, we anticipated fund raising from April, that increased cash position in Q1 '24, which led to the higher cash position on the previous quarter.

在這裡，我們強調，正如先前電話會議中提到的，在3 月的最後一周，我們預計從4 月開始籌集資金，這會增加24 年第一季的現金頭寸，導致上一季的現金頭寸增加。

On the final slide, we are increasing our guidance for the year, enforcing our sentiment that we have started the year at a very good pace. The current performance is a positive surprise in terms of growth rate, especially in larger segments and its new growth avenues such as cross-border.

在最後一張投影片中，我們正在增加今年的指導，強化我們的觀點，即我們已經以非常好的速度開始了今年。目前的業績表現在成長率方面令人驚喜，尤其是在較大的細分市場及其新的成長途徑（例如跨國）方面。

We are also happy with the results coming from our banking platform. The success of our strategy to reach those larger merchants to foster our deposit franchise is key to balancing a higher country interest rate than expected.

我們也對我們銀行平台的結果感到滿意。我們接觸大型商家以培養存款特許經營權的策略能否成功，是平衡高於預期的國家利率的關鍵。

As a result, we take the opportunity to increase our guidance as shown. We now expect the total payment volume to achieve between BRL480 billion to BRL505 billion, with a healthy profitability. The guidance on gross profit margin remains unchanged, above 40% over total revenue and income as we are currently delivering 40.3% in the first half.

因此，我們藉此機會增加了我們的指導，如圖所示。我們目前預計支付總額將達到4,800億雷亞爾至5,050億雷亞爾之間，獲利能力良好。毛利率指引維持不變，高於總收入和收入的 40%，目前我們上半年的毛利率為 40.3%。

Net income on a non-GAAP basis should be between BRL2.1 billion to BRL2.2 billion, considering a more efficient level of effective tax rate than 2023, as we have been currently achieved. CapEx remains unchanged higher investments deployed this quarter are in line with business expansion, while we raise the coverage ratio to support future growth.

考慮到我們目前所達到的比 2023 年更有效的有效稅率水平，非公認會計準則基礎上的淨利潤應在 21 億雷亞爾至 22 億雷亞爾之間。資本支出保持不變，本季部署的較高投資與業務擴張相符，同時我們提高了覆蓋率以支持未來成長。

Nonetheless, the current guidance remains between BRL2 billion to BRL2.2 billion. D&A plus POS write-offs amount should end the year between BRL1.7 billion to BRL1.8 billion, benefited by an ongoing improvement in POS management.

儘管如此，目前的指導仍在 20 億雷亞爾至 22 億雷亞爾之間。由於 POS 管理的持續改進，年底 D&A 加上 POS 沖銷金額應在 17 億雷亞爾至 18 億雷亞爾之間。

Now let me give the word back to the operator, and we will start the Q&A session.

現在讓我將話回話給接線員，然後我們將開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Kaio Prato, UBS.

（操作員說明）Kaio Prato，UBS。

Good evening. I would like to explore a little bit more the guidance change that you made for this quarter. So we saw a big adjustments in the TPV expectations acquired. It was an increase of around 10% versus your previous guidance. Then we had a reduction of around BRL200 million in D&A and write-offs. However, your net income guidance increased only by 2% versus the midpoint that we had previously.

晚安.我想更多地探討一下你們為本季所做的指導變更。因此，我們看到冠捷收購的預期發生了重大調整。與您之前的指導相比，增加了 10% 左右。然後，我們在 D&A 和沖銷方面減少了約 2 億雷亞爾。然而，與我們之前的中點相比，你們的淨利潤指導僅增加了 2%。

So it seems a little bit conservative, especially after the net income of the first half of the year and even lower than expected effective tax rate. So just wondering if you can provide more details around that, what lines of your P&L are your expect to be worse than previously expected in order to offset this better TPV, D&A and also tax rate? Please, thank you.

所以看起來有點保守，尤其是在上半年淨利甚至低於預期的有效稅率之後。因此，我想知道您是否可以提供更多詳細信息，您預計損益表中的哪些項目會比之前預期的更差，以抵消更好的 TPV、D&A 和稅率？拜託，謝謝。

Kaio, thank you for the question. This is Ricardo. You're right. When you already did the guidance, the increase in TPV and also the decrease in D&A. But remember, there are many moving parts in our P&L, and it is very dynamic.

凱奧，謝謝你的提問。這是里卡多。你說得對。當您已經完成指導時，TPV 會增加，D&A 也會減少。但請記住，我們的損益表中有許多活動部分，而且非常動態。

Just to give an example of one of the assumptions that we had at the beginning of the year that by the end of the year, interest rates would be around 9%, base interest rate of the economy in Brazil. And today, it's 10.5% and there is no visibility that it's going to go down.

舉個例子，我們在年初做出的假設之一是，到年底，利率將達到 9% 左右，這是巴西經濟的基本利率。如今，這一數字為 10.5%，而且看不到它會下降的跡象。

So that's one of the variables that impact our P&L, and then we need to manage in such a way that you can decrease financial expenses by having more deposits by having different source of funding and so on. So that's one of the examples that would be worse than what we expected.

因此，這是影響我們損益的變數之一，然後我們需要以這樣的方式進行管理，即您可以透過擁有更多的存款、擁有不同的資金來源等來減少財務費用。所以這是比我們預期更糟糕的例子之一。

But at end of the day, the company has the ability and the discipline to control costs. We've shown that in 2022, 2023. So that's why we -- even with this moving parts, some tailwinds, some headwinds, the best information that they have today is that our net income could be higher than the previous or the original guidance that we had at the beginning of the year.

但歸根究底，公司有能力也有紀律來控製成本。我們已經在 2022 年、2023 年證明了這一點。因此，這就是為什麼我們 - 即使有這些變化，一些順風，一些逆風，他們今天掌握的最好信息是我們的淨利潤可能高於之前或年初的原始指導。

And remember, we're always looking here for sustainable growth to build the company for the future to grow in this new avenue, which is banking, grow our credit operation and so on. So the idea here, as we always said is to balance growth and profitability. We could prioritize short-term profit. However, we think that the best way is to increase profit and at the same time, keep growing the company. So that's mainly the overview of the guidance that you have today.

請記住，我們一直在這裡尋求永續成長，以建立公司，以便未來在銀行業、發展我們的信貸業務等新途徑中發展。因此，正如我們常說的，這裡的想法是平衡成長和獲利能力。我們可以優先考慮短期利潤。然而，我們認為最好的方法是增加利潤，同時不斷發展公司。這主要是對今天的指導的概述。

Okay. Thank you very much.

好的。非常感謝。

Pedro Leduc, Itaú BBA.

佩德羅·勒杜克 (Pedro Leduc)，義大利 BBA。

Thank you, guys. Congrats on the quarter. A little bit on the SG&A side. In the prepared remarks, you mentioned a rollout of higher commercial investments, part of this is driving revenues now, part to come. I would just like to understand a little bit how you're looking at this reinvestment pay? And is it perhaps one of the reasons also that net income revision was a bit more modest in the revenue or gross margins.

謝謝你們，夥計們。恭喜本季。SG&A 方面有一點。在準備好的發言中，您提到了更高的商業投資的推出，其中一部分是現在增加的收入，一部分是未來的收入。我只是想了解您如何看待這筆再投資費用？這也許也是淨利修正在收入或毛利率方面較為溫和的原因之一。

Just for -- and also in the call, you mentioned efficiencies in the second half. Again, trying to get a little more color around this line. Thank you.

只是為了——也在電話中，你提到了下半年的效率。再次嘗試在這條線周圍添加更多顏色。謝謝。

Thank you, Pedro. This is Ricardo. Well, in terms of SG&A, we invested in the second quarter and not to say in the first semester, as you could see in our P&L. We invested more in marketing, we invested more in personnel, we don't think there is going to be an increase in the level of investments or expenses that you had in these two lines of our P&L in the second half. So we expect that to be kind of stable.

謝謝你，佩德羅。這是里卡多。嗯，就銷售管理費用而言，我們在第二季度進行了投資，更不用說在第一學期進行了投資，正如您在我們的損益表中看到的那樣。我們在行銷方面投入了更多，在人員方面投入了更多，我們認為下半年損益表這兩條線的投資或支出水準不會增加。所以我們預計這會保持穩定。

So the size of the sales personnel that we have today, it seems to be stable and at the same size for the second half. That's one of the -- let's say, the expectation that we have.

因此，我們今天擁有的銷售人員規模似乎很穩定，而且下半年的規模相同。這是我們的期望之一。

We invested also in our customer experience or call center and everything that relates to customer relationship. And we also invested in product development. We've been launching new products, just to name a few here, investing in -- we launched the multiple cards now in Q3. We're also in the multi acquiring and other features for the SMB.

我們也投資於客戶體驗或呼叫中心以及與客戶關係相關的一切。我們也投資於產品開發。我們一直在推出新產品，僅舉幾例，投資 - 我們現在在第三季推出了多張卡。我們也致力於為中小型企業提供多重獲取和其他功能。

So that's why when you look at the expenses, the operating expenses, we see this increase, but specifically in SG&A marker, it seems to be -- we expect to be stable. And that's looking forward. That's why we reviewed the guidance BRL50 million more in the middle point for the net income, even with this all moving parts with the interest rates that it seems to be higher than what you expected.

因此，這就是為什麼當你查看費用、營運費用時，我們會看到這種成長，但特別是在 SG&A 標記中，我們預計會保持穩定。這很令人期待。這就是為什麼我們在淨收入的中間點上多審查了 5000 萬巴西雷亞爾的指導，即使所有這些因素的利率似乎都高於您的預期。

D&A lowered what we expected. So there are many moving parts. But I would say the big one is D&A, it should be lower as we see in the guidance and financial expenses should be higher because of the basic interest rate of the economy, and we should offset that with more deposits and cost controlling in other lines that you -- at the end of the day, we have conditions to control.

D&A 降低了我們的預期。所以有很多活動部件。但我想說，最大的一個是D&A，正如我們在指導中看到的那樣，它應該更低，由於經濟的基本利率，財務費用應該更高，我們應該通過更多的存款和其他方面的成本控制來抵消這一點歸根結底，我們有條件可以控制。

Okay. That's clear on SG&A. And if I may, for the second question that's unrelated, but also important on the credit portfolio, especially on the SME side, merchant clients, the working capital loans were more modest. Of course, you're banking more for this guy. Are you feeling on the comfort of going originating more in working capital? Thank you.

好的。這在SG&A 上很清楚。如果可以的話，對於第二個問題，雖然不相關，但對信貸組合也很重要，特別是在中小企業、商業客戶方面，營運資金貸款較為溫和。當然，你為這傢伙存了更多錢。您是否對增加營運資金感到放心？謝謝。

Well, Pedro, we do expect that to grow. We are still, to be honest, in baby steps. We launched it now by the end of Q2, to be honest, we launched the working capital and also the overdraft. These two products are still small in terms of credit portfolio, but it is growing. We do have expectations that we will be able to grow these two products a little bit faster in the following quarters in such a way that we can see the results in the financial services P&L.

好吧，佩德羅，我們確實預計這一數字會成長。老實說，我們仍處於起步階段。我們現在在第二季末推出了它，說實話，我們推出了營運資金和透支。就信貸組合而言，這兩種產品仍然較小，但正在成長。我們確實希望在接下來的幾個季度中能夠以更快的速度成長這兩種產品，以便我們可以在金融服務損益表中看到結果。

The small tests that we have so far have been very successful, very, very successful the way that the SMBs ask for the working capital, the way they are paying. So today, I don't have a guidance to give to you because it's still very small in baby steps, as I mentioned before. But we do have expectations. These two products will grow faster in the following quarters.

到目前為止，我們進行的小型測試非常成功，非常非常成功，就像中小企業要求營運資金的方式以及他們支付的方式一樣。所以今天，我沒有給你任何指導，因為正如我之前提到的，它還處於初級階段。但我們確實有期望。這兩種產品將在接下來的幾季成長更快。

That's very useful. Thank you.

這非常有用。謝謝。

Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

馬裡奧·皮里，美國銀行。

Congratulations on the results. I wanted to ask a little bit about your volume growth on the LMEC segment, growing 50%.

祝賀結果。我想問貴公司 LMEC 領域的銷售成長情況，成長了 50%。

I wanted to understand a little bit better the take rates and the profitability of this product versus volume growth at the MSMB segment because what I'm trying to get to is given the increase in the guidance that you're giving for volumes, how come that's not translating into a higher net income and you already explained that you are facing higher financial expenses? But I was wondering if the growth is -- the higher guidance is because of stronger growth at the LMEC and that's a lower profitability product? Thank you.

我想更好地了解該產品的採用率和盈利能力與 MSMB 細分市場銷量增長的關係，因為我想要得到的是考慮到您給出的銷量指導的增加，為什麼會這樣？為更高的淨收入，並且您已經解釋過您面臨更高的財務費用？但我想知道成長是否——較高的指導是因為 LMEC 的成長強勁，而這是一個獲利能力較低的產品？謝謝。

Mario, thank you for the question. You're right. We grew 50% TPV in LMEC and 28% in SMB. And they do have a lower margin in larger merchants, e-commerce and cross-border. At end of the day, in absolute terms, in absolute figures, it makes sense because it is accretive, not as accretive as it is in the MSMBs.

馬裡奧，謝謝你的提問。你說得對。我們在 LMEC 中的 TPV 成長了 50%，在 SMB 中成長了 28%。他們在大型商家、電子商務和跨境領域的利潤率確實較低。歸根結底，從絕對值來看，從絕對數字來看，這是有道理的，因為它是增值的，而不是像中小型企業那樣增值。

But in terms of volumes, they bring more volumes and it is accretive in the bottom line. But if you look at what we have in terms of results in both segments, LMEC, we grew 50% and SMBs, we grew 28%.

但就銷量而言，它們帶來了更多的銷量，並且增加了利潤。但如果你看看我們在這兩個領域的業績，LMEC，我們成長了 50%，中小企業，我們成長了 28%。

All of these figures, they are much, much higher than what is in the market. Remember, the market grew 11%. The cards industry in Brazil grew 11%, and we grew 28% in MSMB and 50% in LMEC. So yes, it is growing faster. But if you look at the core or the beginning of the company, the origin of the company, MSMBs and [longtail], so one is still growing 28%, which is very healthy.

所有這些數字都比市場上的數字高得多。請記住，市場成長了 11%。巴西的銀行卡產業成長了 11%，MSMB 成長了 28%，LMEC 成長了 50%。所以是的，它的成長速度更快。但如果你看看公司的核心或開始、公司的起源、中小型企業和[長尾]，那麼它仍然成長 28%，這是非常健康的。

But as we have the opportunity to grow more in the LMEC, we keep growing there and getting these clients. But going back to your question, yes, they do have lower margins, it's growing faster, but they are accretive by the end of the day, and both segments are growing much, much faster than the whole industry in Brazil.

但由於我們有機會在 LMEC 實現更多成長，因此我們不斷在那裡發展並獲得這些客戶。但回到你的問題，是的，他們的利潤率確實較低，但成長速度更快，但最終它們會不斷增值，而且這兩個領域的成長速度都比巴西整個產業快得多。

Right. That's clear. What explains the acceleration in growth in the LMEC because you were growing close to 30% and now you jumped to 50%. Does it have to do like gaining on the increase, we keep hearing about sports betting and things like that in Brazil, is that one of the drivers? And why did the growth accelerate so much?

正確的。很清楚。LMEC 成長加速的原因是什麼？ 先前成長接近 30%，現在躍升至 50%。它是否必須像獲得增長一樣，我們不斷聽到體育博彩之類的事情在巴西發生，這是驅動因素之一嗎？為什麼成長速度如此之快？

There are many reasons here. One of the reasons, say, we finally integrated all the platforms. Remember, we acquired MOIP by 2020 and then you had all this work to bring MOIP inside the company and then integrate the platform. Now we have the unique platform -- only one platform to serve the online clients. That's one of the reasons. The other one, we try to bring large merchants and also integrate our banking solutions to them.

這裡有很多原因。例如，原因之一是我們最終整合了所有平台。請記住，我們在 2020 年收購了 MOIP，然後您需要完成所有這些工作才能將 MOIP 引入公司，然後整合平台。現在我們擁有了獨特的平台—只有一個平台來服務線上客戶。這是原因之一。另一方面，我們嘗試引入大型商戶，並將我們的銀行解決方案整合到他們身上。

So some of the bankings are using our CDs and so on, which is a kind of way to be different in the market in order to go there and compete with price. And also in that, we are having new clients in (inaudible) when you think about cross-border. and also online.

所以一些銀行正在使用我們的CD等，這是一種在市場上與眾不同的方式，以便進入市場並進行價格競爭。而且，當你想到跨國時，我們在（聽不清楚）有新客戶。並且還在線。

So it's a mix of everything. But I would say that is very balanced. There is no growth in one specific area that we are concentrating. It's a mix of online clients, cross-border, larger merchants coming because of the bank. So it's a combination of these reasons, I would say to you.

所以它是一切的混合體。但我想說這是非常平衡的。我們所關注的某一特定領域並沒有成長。線上客戶、跨境客戶、大型商家因銀行而湧入。我想對你說，這是這些原因的結合。

Okay. No, great. Thank you very much.

好的。不，太好了。非常感謝。

Right. Thank you, Mario.

正確的。謝謝你，馬裡奧。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

蒂托·拉巴塔，高盛。

Hi, good evening. Thank you for the call. Actually, a little bit of a follow-up to Mario's question on the TPV. I guess, one first to clarify, is the pressure on the take rate, simply a function of mix, just to make sure , you kind of mentioned that you're not really competing on price. But just to think about the competitive dynamics a little bit in the two different segments.

嗨，晚上好。謝謝您的來電。實際上，這是馬裡奧在 TPV 上提出的問題的一點後續。我想，首先要澄清的是，接受率的壓力，只是混合的函數，只是為了確保，你提到你並沒有真正在價格上競爭。但只要稍微考慮一下這兩個不同細分市場的競爭動態即可。

I think with the large merchants, one competitor is in the middle of being privatized. So I don't know if that's maybe contributing as well to your ability to grow with large merchants and again, the first part of the question, is all the take rate pressure just mix? And should we expect this trend to continue where you can continue to grow faster with larger merchants, at least in the shorter term, that could maybe put further pressure on the take rate going forward.

我認為對於大商人來說，一個競爭對手正處於私有化之中。所以我不知道這是否也有助於您與大型商家一起成長的能力，問題的第一部分是所有的接受率壓力都是混合在一起的嗎？如果我們預期這種趨勢會持續下去，你可以繼續與大型商家一起更快地成長，至少在短期內，這可能會對未來的接受率造成進一步的壓力。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tito. Yes, the growth of our larger merchants is going to be larger than the MSMB. And remember, I just answered, Mario, that even MSMBs, if you look at the growth in MSMB is 28%, it's much more than the cards industry in Brazil.

鐵托。是的，我們大型商家的成長將比中小型企業更大。請記住，我剛剛回答過，Mario，即使是 MSMB，如果你看看 MSMB 的增長率也是 28%，這比巴西的銀行卡行業要高得多。

It's a very healthy growth in MSMB. But in larger merchants, e-commerce and cross-border, we are growing almost double of that, reaching 50%. And part of that, we'll keep growing this dynamic. So today, 67% of our TPV in Q2 was MSMB TPV and 32% in LMEC. So if we look forward probably, the share of MSMB should go down because LMEC growing faster.

MSMB 的成長非常健康。但在大型商家、電子商務和跨境領域，我們的成長幾乎翻倍，達到 50%。作為其中的一部分，我們將繼續發展這種活力。因此，今天第二季我們 67% 的 TPV 是 MSMB TPV，32% 是 LMEC。因此，如果我們展望未來，MSMB 的份額可能會下降，因為 LMEC 成長更快。

But again, it's accretive to the bottom line. There is no relation with the one company being privatized or some policies -- pricing policies and other companies much more related to what we've been doing out there in the street.

但同樣，它會增加利潤。與一家被私有化的公司或某些政策（定價政策和其他公司）沒有任何關係，這些政策與我們在街上所做的事情更相關。

And one thing that is very important, also to mention, is that larger merchants for us as you don't have a definition in the market, what is larger merchant? Remember, for us, larger merchants is a merchant with the TPV of cards larger than BRL1 million per month.

值得一提的是，非常重要的一件事是，對我們來說，大型商家因為市場上沒有定義，什麼是大型商家？請記住，對我們來說，大型商家是指每月卡片的 TPV 超過 100 萬雷亞爾的商家。

If you look at the competitors or in the incumbents, the acquirers from the incumbent banks, probably this is going to be a medium clients to them. So the definition for us is around after BRL1 million. We consider larger merchants. So it's not that large, if you look at the market, but still we are growing in a very healthy in both segments today.

如果你看看競爭對手或現有銀行的收購者，這可能會成為他們的中等客戶。所以我們的定義是在 100 萬雷亞爾左右。我們考慮較大的商家。因此，如果你看看市場，它並沒有那麼大，但我們今天在這兩個領域仍然在非常健康地成長。

Okay. Great. That's helpful. And following up a little bit, like continued strong growth in deposits. Are you seeing -- any color you can provide, and some of these deposits because you're growing with larger merchants and that's helping to drive that growth in deposits? Any color on the mix of the deposits between large merchants and SMB?

好的。偉大的。這很有幫助。跟進一點，例如存款的持續強勁成長。您是否看到 - 您可以提供任何顏色，以及其中一些存款，因為您正在與較大的商家一起成長，這有助於推動存款的成長？大型商家和中小企業之間的存款混合有什麼色彩嗎？

So I would say to you that large commercial, of course, helped, but it's not the main driver for this growth. This growth is much more related to SMBs. And also consumers tend to the larger merchants because as you can, as we expect some larger merchants, they do have corporate accounts the larger banks at this point and some of them just use as an acquirer in CDs, but not exactly deposits. So that's why we I would say to you the main driver for the deposits are SMBs and consumers at this point.

所以我想對你們說，大型商業當然有幫助，但它並不是這種成長的主要動力。這種成長與中小企業密切相關。而且消費者也傾向於較大的商家，因為正如我們預期的一些較大的商家一樣，他們目前確實擁有較大銀行的公司帳戶，其中一些只是用作CD 的收單機構，但不完全是存款。因此，這就是為什麼我要對你們說，目前存款的主要動力是中小企業和消費者。

Okay, very clear. Thank you very much.

好的，非常清楚。非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Neha Agarwala, HSBC.

尼哈·阿加瓦拉，匯豐銀行。

Thank you for taking my question. My first question is on your guidance. What is the implied average SELIC that you have incorporated in your guidance, both the old and the new one? Has that changed?

感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於您的指導。您在新舊指南中納入的隱含平均 SELIC 是多少？那改變了嗎？

Second question is, again, on the LMEC segment that you have here, which is growing extremely strongly. Is this comparable to the ABECS TPV that we look at for the system because I believe the e-commerce and the cross-border. volumes which you're including, it's probably not included in the ABECS system.

第二個問題又是關於 LMEC 細分市場，該細分市場成長極為強勁。這是否可以與我們尋找系統的ABECS TPV相媲美，因為我相信電子商務和跨境。您所包含的捲，它可能不包含在 ABECS 系統中。

So that kind of distorts comparison on apples to apples. And will it be possible for you to break it down for us to see what is comparable to that of the system to get a more -- a better sense of the market share? And maybe we'll go with that and then I'll ask my third question.

因此，這種情況扭曲了同類之間的比較。您是否可以將其分解，讓我們看看與該系統的可比性，以便更好地了解市場份額？也許我們會同意，然後我會問第三個問題。

Neha, thank you for the question. I'll start backwards. The TPV that we report here is not 100% compared to ABECS. So that's why when I say the card industry in Brazil is growing 11% and our TPV includes PIX as well. But let's say the participation of PIX in our TPV is a high-single digit today. So even if you discount the PIX participation in our TPV, we are growing much, much more than the ABECS and much more than the competitors. Regarding the interest rates, I'll pass to Artur to answer.

內哈，謝謝你的提問。我將從倒退開始。與 ABECS 相比，我們在此報告的 TPV 並非 100%。這就是為什麼我說巴西的銀行卡產業成長了 11%，而我們的 TPV 也包括 PIX。但假設今天 PIX 在我們的 TPV 中的參與度是高個位數。因此，即使你不考慮 PIX 對我們 TPV 的參與，我們的成長速度也比 ABECS 和競爭對手都快得多。關於利率，我會交給Artur來回答。

So Neha, this is Artur speaking. In terms of guidance, what we are considering in the interest rate for our country is something above our business plan, the original business plan that we had at the beginning of the year. And today, it is 10.5%, and we do not consider any reduction going forward, okay?

尼哈，我是阿圖爾。在指導方面，我們正在考慮的國家利率高於我們的業務計劃，即我們年初制定的原始業務計劃。今天是10.5%，我們不考慮未來任何減少，好嗎？

Neha, just to complement here. We do have some scenarios because, of course, we don't know what's going to be the interest rate by the end of the year. So we have some scenarios, if you have some increase in interest rates as some banks have been saying the past weeks. We also have some other scenarios to control other lines of P&L in order to deliver the guidance that we're showing to you in this presentation.

Neha，只是為了補充一下。我們確實有一些情景，因為當然，我們不知道年底的利率是多少。因此，我們有一些情景，如果像一些銀行過去幾週所說的那樣，利率有所上升。我們還有一些其他場景來控制損益表的其他行，以便提供我們在本簡報中向您展示的指導。

So of course, we have some conservative interest rates, some aggressive. And then depending on the scenario, we're going to manage the company to deliver the guidance that we have here in this presentation.

當然，我們有一些保守的利率，也有一些激進的利率。然後根據具體情況，我們將管理公司以提供本簡報中的指導。

Great. Perfect. That's very helpful. And lastly, on the MSMB segment. So we see the overall take rate has been going down, which is mostly because of the strong growth in the LMEC segment. But just talking about the core MSMB segment, what is the take rate for that particular segment? And how has that take rate evolved over the last year?

偉大的。完美的。這非常有幫助。最後是 MSMB 領域。因此，我們看到整體採用率一直在下降，這主要是因為 LMEC 領域的強勁成長。但僅就核心 MSMB 細分市場而言，該特定細分市場的採用率為何？去年的使用率有何變化？

Neha, we don't disclose this exactly take rate. Let's say to you, it decreased a little bit from one year to the other, not a big decrease but it decreased a little bit, a few basis points. But I'd say to you is very healthy to-date. Competition has been rational. We keep growing in a very healthy way in this segment, as you could see, it's 28% growth. But let's say, the take rate went down just a little bit, but it's still very healthy margins, very accretive to the bottom line, a very good business, to be honest.

Neha，我們沒有透露確切的收費率。比方說，一年比一年下降了一點，下降幅度不是很大，但下降了一點點，幾個基點。但我想說的是，到目前為止，它非常健康。競爭是理性的。我們在這一領域持續以非常健康的方式成長，正如您所看到的，成長了 28%。但我們可以說，採用率略有下降，但說實話，它的利潤率仍然非常健康，非常能增加利潤，是一項非常好的業務。

Super. Thank you so much.

極好的。太感謝了。

Jorge Kuri, Morgan Stanley.

豪爾赫·庫裡，摩根士丹利。

Hi, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity to ask questions. I wanted to go back to the marketing and selling expenses. And your -- for the first half of the year, according to your press release, your selling expenses are up 42% year on year.

大家好。感謝您有機會提問。我想回到行銷和銷售費用。而你們——根據你們的新聞稿，今年上半年你們的銷售費用年增了 42%。

That's 2.5 times the revenue growth, 2 times the MSMB-TPV growth. If I look at just the marketing expenses, they're up like 70%, I believe. And I guess the question is what gives you comfort that this is going to allow you to accelerate revenue or keep the same pace of revenue without necessarily having to continue investing in marketing and selling at this space? And I asked that because we're seeing exactly the same thing from your peers.

這是營收成長的 2.5 倍，是 MSMB-TPV 成長的 2 倍。如果我只看行銷費用，我相信它們增加了 70%。我想問題是，是什麼讓您感到放心，這將使您能夠加速收入或保持相同的收入速度，而不必繼續投資於該領域的營銷和銷售？我這麼問是因為我們從你們的同行那裡看到了完全相同的情況。

The same thing happened at Stone, at Cielo, at Rede, at Getnet, I mean everyone is adding sales people. Everyone is adding sales capacity, marketing capacity. So if everyone is adding, you're all at the same place, right? I mean you're not better than the guy next door.

同樣的事情也發生在 Stone、Cielo、Rede、Getnet，我的意思是每個人都在增加銷售人員。每個人都在增加銷售能力、行銷能力。所以如果每個人都在添加，那麼你們都在同一個地方，對吧？我的意思是你並不比隔壁的那個人好。

So what gives you confidence that this is indeed an effort that surpasses your peers and will allow you to grow above average going forward? And then I'll ask my second question.

那麼，是什麼讓您相信這確實是一項超越您同行的努力，並將讓您在未來取得高於平均水平的成長呢？然後我會問第二個問題。

Jorge, thank you for the question. Let me start and then Artur can complement more with the numbers, but I would say in a more qualitative way, so to say, here, when you look at what happened with the company in this quarter, we've been investing. And as I said at the beginning of the presentation, it is an all-time high presentation.

豪爾赫，謝謝你的提問。讓我開始，然後阿圖爾可以用數字來補充更多，但我會以更定性的方式說，也就是說，在這裡，當你看看公司本季發生的情況時，我們一直在投資。正如我在演講開始時所說，這是一場空前的高水準演講。

All the slides that we have starts with all-time high. So TPV grew 34%, revenue grew 19%, deposits 87%, cash-in 52%. Banking net adds accelerated versus Q1. Banking revenues grew 41%. We had a TPV record in June 8 and now a new record in July 6.

我們所有的幻燈片都以歷史最高點開始。因此冠捷成長了 34%，營收成長了 19%，存款成長了 87%，現金成長了 52%。銀行業淨增加較第一季加速。銀行業收入成長 41%。我們在 6 月 8 日創造了 TPV 記錄，現在又在 7 月 6 日創造了新記錄。

So listen. So the company is doing very well and it's growing. And part of the investment, of course, is to bring this growth. We could have a look at the short-term profits and not to invest in the growth.

所以聽著。所以公司經營得很好並且正在成長。當然，部分投資是為了帶來這種成長。我們可以著眼於短期利潤，而不是投資成長。

But you do have the confidence that these investments will be paid back because I've seen in terms of cohorts, the way that clients come to us, the way they engage with the app, the way they do the cash-in and the way they start using our products gives us the confidence that we are bringing very good cohorts for the company. And of course, there is a lag between the investments, getting the client and then start generating the revenues.

但你確實有信心這些投資會得到回報，因為我已經看到了群體、客戶來找我們的方式、他們與應用程式互動的方式、他們兌現的方式以及他們的方式。有信心為公司帶來非常好的團隊。當然，投資、獲得客戶和開始產生收入之間存在著一個滯後期。

But when you look at the qualitative way that the clients are using our products and all the ecosystem, that's why we keep investing on that. And I know that sometimes we do compare peers and so on. But to reinforce that, probably, we are the only one with this very, very powerful combination of acquiring and banking at the same app.

但是，當你看到客戶使用我們的產品和整個生態系統的定性方式時，這就是我們繼續投資的原因。我知道有時我們確實會比較同行等等。但為了強調這一點，我們可能是唯一一家在同一個應用程式中擁有這種非常非常強大的收單和銀行業務組合的公司。

Not only the players, they have the [D plus zero] they don't have the same logistics that they have. They don't have the same complete accounts that we do have today and that we invest and also for MSMB. So I would say that it's not the same animals. So that's why we are confident that our value proposition is stronger than competition.

不只是玩家，他們還有[D加零]，他們沒有相同的後勤保障。他們沒有我們今天所擁有的、我們投資的、中小型企業的完整帳戶。所以我想說這不是同一種動物。這就是為什麼我們相信我們的價值主張比競爭對手更強。

Maybe one competitor is better in a specific feature. The other one is better than another one. But a competitor that has all the combinations and features that we have in our ecosystem, I don't see one to compete with us in a very powerful way for longtail MSMB and the consumer as well, I would say.

也許某個競爭對手在某項特定功能上會更好。另一件比另一件好。但我想說的是，一個擁有我們生態系統中所有組合和功能的競爭對手，我認為沒有一個競爭對手能夠以非常強大的方式與我們競爭長尾中小型企業和消費者。

So we're launching new products. Portfolio is growing, NPL is trending down. So when you look at the numbers and the qualitative cohorts, that gives us the confidence to keep investing.

所以我們正在推出新產品。投資組合不斷成長，不良貸款呈下降趨勢。因此，當您查看數字和定性群組時，這讓我們有信心繼續投資。

And regarding the numbers, and specific percentage, I guess, Artur can give us more color. Thank you.

至於數字和具體百分比，我想阿圖爾可以給我們更多的色彩。謝謝。

Well, to complement what Dutra mentioned, I would like to reinforce that the higher expenses and investments that we are seeing right now are in 2024. And by the way, we achieved at the level that we expected for this year in the second quarter. It's a little bit higher than the first quarter, but it's in the same level when you compare quarter over quarter.

好吧，為了補充 Dutra 提到的內容，我想強調一下，我們現在看到的更高的支出和投資是在 2024 年發生的。順便說一句，我們在第二季度實現了今年預期的水平。比第一季略高，但季度與季度比較時處於同一水平。

But those investments are part of our strategy for 2024 as we reduced costs and expenses in 2022, part of our strategy for that moment. In 2023, we also had a very good discipline on the cost and expenses, part of our strategy again in 2023.

但這些投資是我們 2024 年策略的一部分，因為我們在 2022 年降低了成本和開支，這是我們當時策略的一部分。2023 年，我們在成本和費用方面也有很好的紀律，這也是我們 2023 年策略的一部分。

And based upon the big strategy that we have that is balanced growth and profitability, not reaction on competition and so on but the balance of growth and profitability now is a moment of growth, and we achieved the level of investments that we see important to the growth, the growth that we are expecting going forward.

基於我們的大策略，即平衡成長和獲利能力，而不是對競爭等做出反應，但成長和獲利能力的平衡現在是成長的時刻，我們實現了我們認為對公司很重要的投資水準。我們期望未來的成長。

And as Dutra mentioned, we had a lot of all-time high numbers in this quarter, and we are expecting to have very good numbers going forward in terms of growth engagement and activation of clients.

正如杜特拉所提到的，我們在本季度取得了許多歷史新高的數字，我們預計未來在客戶的成長參與度和活化方面將取得非常好的數字。

Let me ask a second question, if you don't mind. A different topic on payroll loans, which you basically doubled over the last year in terms of RHB portfolio. Can you help us -- can you give us some color on what is your payroll loan business? Are these payroll loans for retirees, for government workers, FGTS loans, private workers? What is the ticket size? How many clients? What percentage of your clients have a payroll loan?

如果您不介意的話，讓我問第二個問題。另一個關於薪資貸款的話題，就 RHB 投資組合而言，去年你的貸款基本上翻了一番。您能幫助我們嗎？這些薪資貸款是為退休人員、政府工作人員、FGTS 貸款、私人工人提供的嗎？門票尺寸是多少？有多少客戶？您的客戶中有多少比例擁有薪資貸款？

And if you can also help us dimension just how big this business could be either you have x number of retirees in your base and only x percent have a payroll loan or government workers, any way you want to help us try to get our arms around how big this could be given that, indeed, it's growing very rapidly. Thank you.

如果您還可以幫助我們衡量這項業務的規模，要么您的基地中有 x 名退休人員，只有 x% 有工資貸款，要么是政府工作人員，您想以任何方式幫助我們盡力幫助我們考慮到它確實增長得非常迅速，它的規模有多大。謝謝。

Jorge, at this point, we are not doing for private employees, but we do have some products in our ecosystem, which are FGTS, products for retirees. The size of the average ticket for this product is similar to what we have in the industry. We keep growing and trying to digitalize all these products in such a way that we can take it out the friction that some products have today that you've got to talk to someone and then send the commendation and so on. The total addressable market for these products is around BRL600 billion.

Jorge，在這一點上，我們不是為私人員工做的，但我們的生態系統中確實有一些產品，那就是 FGTS，為退休人員提供的產品。該產品的平均門票規模與我們行業內的類似。我們不斷發展並嘗試將所有這些產品數位化，這樣我們就可以消除某些產品目前存在的摩擦，即您必須與某人交談，然後發送讚揚等。這些產品的潛在市場總額約為 6,000 億雷亞爾。

So if you look at our portfolio, it's a percentage of the 3%, it was like BRL2 billion out of a term of BRL600 billion. But going back to your question, we are not doing private at this point. It doesn't mean that we'll not do in the future. But at this point, we are focusing more in retirees and FGTS, and try to digitalize this process as much as we can and the size it's similar to what you have in the industry. It's not different than we have in the market.

因此，如果你看看我們的投資組合，它是 3% 的百分比，相當於 6000 億雷亞爾中的 20 億雷亞爾。但回到你的問題，我們目前還沒有進行私有化。這並不意味著我們將來不會這樣做。但目前，我們更專注於退休人員和 FGTS，並嘗試盡可能將這一流程數位化，其規模與行業中的規模相似。和我們市場上的沒有什麼不同。

And are these like fully originated digital loans or you're using [pastinas] or you're buying portfolios from some of the intermediaries, is 100% of the origination done at your point of your clients mobile?

這些是否像是完全起源的數位貸款，或者您正在使用 [pastinas] 或您從一些中介機構購買投資組合，是否 100% 的起源是在您的客戶行動端完成的？

Jorge, for some products, it is 100% online; for other products, it's part -- it's pastinas is online. At this point, we haven't bought any credit portfolio from someone. So we bought in the past, but at the very beginning, but if you look at the last 1.5 years, we didn't buy any credit portfolio from other companies.

Jorge，對於一些產品來說，它是100%在線的；對於其他產品來說，它是一部分——它的 Pastinas 是在線的。目前，我們還沒有從某人那裡購買任何信貸投資組合。所以我們過去購買過，但從一開始就購買過，但如果你看看過去 1.5 年，我們沒有從其他公司購買任何信貸投資組合。

So today, everything is originated through us. Some products are 100% digital, some products, we still use pastinas. But as time passes by, the participation of pastinas is going down. So more and more, we are having more digitalized, more through the app without friction or without intermediaries.

所以今天，一切都是由我們起源的。有些產品是100%數位化的，有些產品我們仍然使用patinas。但隨著時間的推移，帕斯蒂納斯的參與度正在下降。因此，我們越來越數位化，更多地透過應用程序，沒有摩擦或沒有中介。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Thank you, Jorge.

謝謝你，豪爾赫。

John Coffey, Barclays.

約翰‧科菲，巴克萊銀行。

Great. Thank you very much for taking my questions. Two questions I had just referred to a couple of things that you had in your slide deck. So the first was on slide number 6. I think your third bullet where you're talking about early payments and receivables from other acquirers. Could you help me size this? I just want to get to see it better -- I guess trying to understand there's a different kind of economics here than maybe some of your other prepayments and just really how big this opportunity is.

偉大的。非常感謝您回答我的問題。我剛才提到了您幻燈片中的一些內容的兩個問題。所以第一個是在第 6 號投影片。我認為你的第三個要點是關於其他收購方的提前付款和應收帳款。你能幫我量一下這個尺寸嗎？我只是想更了解它——我想試著了解這裡有一種不同於其他預付款的經濟學，以及這個機會到底有多大。

And I can just ask my second question here. And that was on slide 9, you talk about geographic expansion. Were you not fully expanded in Brazil? Or were there pockets in which you really didn't have a lot of penetration. So I'd just be very interested in knowing more about where that geographic expansion was, if there's still a little bit more runway to expand more in that particular area or other areas in Brazil.

我可以在這裡問第二個問題。在投影片 9 上，您談到了地域擴張。你們在巴西的業務還沒有完全擴張嗎？或者是否有一些地方你確實沒有太多的滲透力。因此，我非常有興趣了解更多關於地理擴張的信息，是否還有更多的跑道可以在巴西的特定地區或其他地區進行更多擴張。

John, thank you for the question, starting backwards again. So in terms of geographic expansion, of course, digital, we serve everyone in Brazil, but we do -- we've seen some opportunity to have hyperlocal sales force to serve some clients in specific regions of Brazil. So that's why we reached some -- we hired some new personnel and part of the operating expenses increase is because of that for specific regions, specific niche where we see some potential TPV.

約翰，謝謝你的提問，我們從頭開始。因此，就地理擴張而言，當然是數位化，我們為巴西的每個人提供服務，但我們確實看到了一些機會，可以讓超本地化的銷售團隊為巴西特定地區的一些客戶提供服務。這就是為什麼我們達到了一些目標——我們僱用了一些新人員，部分營運費用的增加是因為我們看到一些潛在的 TPV 的特定地區、特定利基市場。

And in our analysis, the coverage was not good enough to get the clients and to give the right treatment for this type of merchants. So that's why that's geographic expansion. It is within Brazil in specific regions of Brazil.

根據我們的分析，涵蓋範圍不足以吸引客戶並為此類商家提供正確的待遇。這就是地理擴張的原因。它位於巴西境內的巴西特定地區。

Regarding the slide 6 that you mentioned about the early prepayments. Today, we have in Brazil, this chamber of receivable that is finally is working properly. And we have some clients that use PagSeguro and other acquirers and have the opportunity to early prepay for these clients through our app. If we look at the total addressable market, two-thirds of TPV in Brazil is done through credit, so with installments or without installments, but two-thirds is done through credit.

關於您提到的有關提前預付款的幻燈片 6。今天，我們在巴西，這個應收帳款商會終於正常運作了。我們有一些使用 PagSeguro 和其他收單機構的客戶，並且有機會透過我們的應用程式為這些客戶提前預付款。如果我們看一下整個潛在市場，巴西三分之二的 TPV 是透過信貸完成的，因此可以分期付款或不分期付款，但三分之二是透過信貸完成的。

So you can -- at the end of the day, you can anticipate everything of these two-thirds. Part of them already anticipate because they receive D plus zero or they have some specific contracts with some acquirers but part of them are not included in this, I would say, lock up.

所以你可以——最終，你可以預見這三分之二的一切。他們中的一部分人已經預料到了，因為他們收到了D加零，或者他們與一些收購方簽訂了一些具體合同，但我想說的是，他們中的一部分人不包括在鎖定中。

So we know that for larger clients, it's a pricing war like you have been acquiring with the big, big clients the acquiring is based on price and the acquiring for incumbents are working there, incumbents banks are working with these clients. So we are more in the SMBs.

所以我們知道，對於大客戶來說，這是一場價格戰，就像你一直在與非常大的客戶進行收購一樣，收購是基於價格的，而現有銀行的收購正在那裡進行，現有銀行正在與這些客戶合作。所以我們更多的是中小企業。

And it's too early to say the economics of this product. But at the end of the day, we're going to anticipate with a spread based on the cost of funding that we have that is very competitive when compared to competitors because we do have deposits. But I mean, it's too early stage.

現在談論該產品的經濟效益還為時過早。但最終，我們將根據我們擁有的融資成本來預期利差，與競爭對手相比，這是非常有競爭力的，因為我們確實有存款。但我的意思是，現在還為時過早。

I guess we can give you more color, I don't know, next or two quarters from now, we could have more information about this project. But we will launch now in Q3.

我想我們可以給你更多的色彩，我不知道，從現在起的下一兩個季度，我們可以得到有關這個項目的更多資訊。但我們現在將在第三季推出。

All right. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

尤里‧費爾南德斯，摩根大通。

Thank you very much. And congrats on the volumes and creating this closed loop here. I have a question on financial costs. When I go to page 8 of your press release, we see securitization cost down a lot, like 40% quarter over quarter. And I understand this is likely because of your deposit growth, so maybe it makes less sense for you to continue doing securitization.

非常感謝。祝賀這些卷並在這裡創建了這個閉環。我有一個關於財務成本的問題。當我查看你們新聞稿的第 8 頁時，我們看到證券化成本大幅下降，比上季下降了 40%。我知道這可能是因為您的存款成長，所以也許您繼續進行證券化的意義不大。

So just want to track, if this makes sense, if the costs are similar, if you are paying somewhat the same for your time deposits? Because I know the average cost is [96], that maybe is lower than the securitization. But not all your deposits are paying like 96, right, this is a blended. So probably on time deposits, you are paying higher than that. So just checking, if you will continue to do more deposits and less securitization.

因此，只想追蹤一下，這是否有意義，成本是否相似，您為定期存款支付的費用是否相同？因為我知道平均成本是[96]，這可能低於證券化。但並不是所有的存款都像96那樣支付，對吧，這是混合的。因此，對於定期存款，您支付的費用可能會高於此。因此，只需檢查一下您是否會繼續增加存款並減少證券化。

And then my second question, this is related to this one is regarding our net cash. If you continue to do more deposits, you have BRL12 billion of net cash that we report on your presentation. You continue to generate cash, you are relying less on proprietary cash as deposits grow, I would assume.

然後我的第二個問題，與此相關的是我們的淨現金。如果您繼續進行更多存款，我們將在您的簡報中報告您將擁有 120 億雷亞爾的淨現金。我認為，隨著存款的成長，你會繼續產生現金，對自有現金的依賴也會減少。

So what you do here, like M&A, dividends, buybacks? Like what should you do with this excess cash you have been accumulating given your funding has somewhat migrating towards deposits?

那你在這裡做什麼，例如併購、股利、回購？鑑於您的資金在一定程度上轉向了存款，您應該如何處理您累積的多餘現金？

And finally, just a very quick follow-up on the first question from Kaio. I understood your message on the guidance. People already explored this. But given your D&A is moving down, right, your write-off of POS is moving down, is it fair to say that your cash earnings is going down, like with all those moving parts because you have a lower noncash expenses, but like a very marginal guidance revision? Thank you.

最後，對 Kaio 提出的第一個問題進行快速跟進。我理解您關於指南的資訊。人們已經對此進行了探索。但考慮到你的D&A 正在下降，對吧，你的POS 沖銷正在下降，可以公平地說你的現金收入正在下降嗎？就像非常邊際的指導修訂？謝謝。

Well, Yuri, It's Artur speaking. Let's try to talk about each one in generally. And so financial cost, when you talk about financial costs, it's really that we are doing here a great deposit franchise. Our time deposit presents today a very low cost to us, 68% in average.

嗯，尤里，我是阿圖爾。讓我們試著概括地討論每一個。因此，財務成本，當你談論財務成本時，實際上我們在這裡做了很棒的存款專營權。如今，我們的定期存款成本非常低，平均為 68%。

The total deposits that we have to fund the operation 96%, that is awesome to see that we are funding the operation below the country cost in Brazil, specifically to the second quarter and it's part of the decisions that we take.

我們必須為營運提供 96% 的存款總額，看到我們為營運提供的資金低於巴西的國家成本，特別是第二季的成本，真是太棒了，這是我們做出的決定的一部分。

We reduced it a little bit AR securitization through bank issuers, but it was only for the Q2. If you remember in the first call, we commented that we had a large AR securitization in the end of March. And then we used this cash during April in the second quarter.

我們透過銀行發行人減少了一點 AR 證券化，但這只是針對第二季。如果你還記得在第一次電話會議中，我們評論說我們在三月底進行了大規模的 AR 證券化。然後我們在第二季的四月使用了這筆現金。

But going forward, we expect to have our deposits growing more and more. All the management is focused on increasing the volumes on deposits. And also, we are balancing AR securitization and third-party distribution of products or financial ladder or CDs that we distribute in third-party platforms.

但展望未來，我們預期存款會越來越多。所有管理層都專注於增加存款量。此外，我們正在平衡 AR 證券化和我們在第三方平台上分發的產品或金融階梯或 CD 的第三方分發。

It's important to mention that the financial cost in Q3 is also affected by four working days more than Q2. So everybody needs to prepare it's model to understand that we have four days more in the Q3. And we are working to balance all the funding sources that we have to mitigate any impact that we can have in this more number of days.

值得一提的是，第三季的財務成本也比第二季多了四個工作天的影響。因此，每個人都需要準備好模型，以了解第三季還有四天。我們正在努力平衡所有的資金來源，以減輕在這更多天數內可能產生的影響。

In terms of cash balance, it's true we achieved BRL12 billion. We are growing quarter over quarter, every time we see the company growing in the volumes, growing prepayment for merchants and also we measure this net cash balance as a very healthy for the company because we are increasing quarter over quarter.

就現金餘額而言，我們確實實現了 120 億雷亞爾。每當我們看到公司的銷售成長、商家的預付款增加時，我們都在逐季成長，而且我們也將淨現金餘額視為對公司來說非常健康的，因為我們逐季成長。

This excessive cash, as you mentioned, we are always assessing the capital structure based on this cash flow generation. At this moment, we are seeing our business growing faster than expected, and we decided to use on cash to support that growth.

正如您所提到的，這種過多的現金，我們總是根據現金流量的產生來評估資本結構。目前，我們看到我們的業務成長速度快於預期，我們決定使用現金來支持這種成長。

Obviously, we can do using on cash or third party. But at this moment, we prefer to support the growth based on our own cash that is cheaper, and it's better when you are negotiating with the banks and other financial institutions in a more positive scenario.

顯然，我們可以使用現金或第三方。但目前，我們更願意基於我們自己的現金來支持成長，因為它更便宜，而且當你在更積極的情況下與銀行和其他金融機構談判時會更好。

Furthermore, we see several initiatives to better invest our cash. Increased volumes that we are seeing right now, engage clients, improve customer care and launching new products, as we mentioned in the call and in the presentation.

此外，我們還看到了一些旨在更好地投資我們的現金的舉措。正如我們在電話會議和演示中提到的那樣，我們現在看到的銷售量增加，吸引了客戶，改善了客戶服務並推出了新產品。

On top of that, financial industry is huge and beyond payments. And we are on the very early stage of exploring credit bank investments, insurance opportunities as we have been doing with our complete banking offer. And we are always balancing growth and deploy capital. It's part of our strategy to maximize shareholders' return, and we're always doing that management in the capital structure.

最重要的是，金融業規模龐大，超出了支付範圍。我們正處於探索信貸銀行投資和保險機會的早期階段，就像我們一直在提供完整的銀行服務一樣。我們始終平衡成長和部署資本。股東回報最大化是我們策略的一部分，我們一直在資本結構中進行這種管理。

And the third question related to write-off of POS that it's part of our P&L. So we have some policies to read the usage of our POS. And when the POS is not used anymore, we have this practice of write-off POSs. It's only impacting our economics, but not impacting our cash flow because we have this CapEx in years before of this write-off.

第三個問題與 POS 沖銷有關，它是我們損益表的一部分。因此，我們有一些政策來讀取 POS 的使用情況。當POS不再使用時，我們就有沖銷POS的這種做法。它只會影響我們的經濟，但不會影響我們的現金流，因為我們在沖銷之前的幾年裡就有了資本支出。

Super clear, thank you. If I may, just a follow-up on the second point on the use of cash. Like just a more openative take from yourself and if you believe like this industry should be consolidated at some point, like what are things going to happen in this industry, right?

超清楚，謝謝。如果可以的話，請跟進有關現金使用的第二點。就像對自己更加開放的看法一樣，如果您相信這個行業應該在某個時候進行整合，就像這個行業會發生什麼，對嗎？

Because there are so many economies of scale, like you have this ecosystem, you have the deposits, you have the banks. So I would like to hear your thoughts on how you see this industry? I don't know what's going to happen with the payment industry in Brazil like 5, 10 years from now?

因為有很多規模經濟，就像你有這個生態系統，你有存款，你有銀行。所以我想聽聽您對這個行業的看法？我不知道5年、10年後巴西的支付產業會發生什麼事？

Yuri. Well, it's hard to give a prediction of what's going to happen with the industry in 5, 10 years from now because, I mean, the industry is very dynamic. Remember, this has been changing a lot in the past years. We are -- to be honest, we are very active looking for opportunities in the market in different business units of the company. So payments, credit and other products.

尤里。嗯，很難預測這個產業 5 年、10 年後會發生什麼，因為我的意思是，這個產業非常有活力。請記住，過去幾年這種情況發生了很大變化。說實話，我們非常積極地在公司不同業務部門的市場中尋找機會。所以支付、信貸和其他產品。

When you think that you have a good target that we could approach and with the right price and similar culture to us and so on, of course, we move forward. But I mean, it's hard to predict, there's going to be consolidation or not. We keep very active in the market looking for accretive M&A that could create shareholder return. But at this point, there is -- I mean, nothing to be announced and then nothing happening too that should give you some information in this call.

當您認為您有一個我們可以接近的良好目標，並且具有合適的價格和與我們相似的文化等等時，我們當然會繼續前進。但我的意思是，很難預測是否會出現整合。我們在市場上保持非常正面的態度，尋找能夠創造股東回報的增值併購。但目前，我的意思是，沒有什麼要宣布的，也沒有發生任何事情可以在這次電話會議中為您提供一些資訊。

Thank you very much, guys.

非常感謝你們，夥伴們。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Bryan Keane, Deutsche Bank.

布萊恩‧基恩，德意志銀行。

Hi, guys. Congrats on the quarterly results. Just wanted to follow up on the acquiring TPV. It continues to kind of beat and gain share versus the market. And I know the comps start to get a little more difficult, especially as we get into the fourth quarter. So thinking about SMB and the LMEC separately, how sustainable do you think some of the changes you guys are making that you will be able to continue to outpace and take share from the market in those two segments?

嗨，大家好。恭喜季度業績。只是想跟進收購冠捷的情況。它繼續擊敗市場並獲得市場份額。我知道比賽開始變得更加困難，特別是當我們進入第四季時。因此，分別考慮 SMB 和 LMEC，您認為你們正在做出的一些改變將能夠繼續超越並從這兩個細分市場中奪取市場份額，其可持續性如何？

Bryan, this is Ricardo. Well, we've seen what happened this year. We've been growing faster than the market. We've seen that happened in Q1 and Q2. Q3 is not that different.

布萊恩，這是里卡多。好吧，我們已經看到了今年發生的事情。我們的成長速度快於市場。我們已經看到第一季和第二季發生了這種情況。Q3 並沒有那麼不同。

We keep growing in a very healthy way. And what we always say is it's trying not to compete this price, try to have a different value proposition with cross-selling opportunities and trying to use banking as a differentiator for our clients. That's why I've been -- that's why we've been investing in PagBank since 2019 -- 2019.

我們以非常健康的方式不斷成長。我們總是說，它試圖不與這個價格競爭，嘗試透過交叉銷售機會提出不同的價值主張，並嘗試利用銀行業務作為我們客戶的差異化優勢。這就是為什麼我 - 這就是為什麼我們自 2019 年以來一直投資 PagBank - 2019 年。

But going back to your question, we do think it is sustainable to grow more than the market in the following quarters. But again, the industry is very dynamic, but we have a strong value proposition, the processes in place, and there is some inertia that we've been seeing in our sales force, productivity per employee is growing because they get more and more trained and understand better the ecosystem.

但回到你的問題，我們確實認為在接下來的幾個季度成長超過市場是可持續的。但同樣，這個行業非常活躍，但我們有強大的價值主張、適當的流程，而且我們在銷售隊伍中看到了一些慣性，每個員工的生產力正在增長，因為他們接受了越來越多的培訓並更了解生態系統。

We've been launching new products such as CDs that serves not only MSMBs, but also LMEC. So I mean, looking forward, I don't see many changes in the dynamics. It's hard to say what's going to be the level, but I don't see a change in these dynamics that we keep gaining share.

我們一直在推出 CD 等新產品，不僅為 MSMB 提供服務，也為 LMEC 提供服務。所以我的意思是，展望未來，我沒有看到動態發生太多變化。很難說會達到什麼水平，但我沒有看到我們不斷獲得份額的動態發生變化。

Got it. Got it. And then as a follow-up, just thinking about the pipeline for acquisitions or what you guys are thinking about that you might want to add to the portfolio?

知道了。知道了。然後作為後續行動，只考慮收購管道或你們正在考慮哪些可能想要添加到投資組合中的內容？

Are there things out there that you guys are looking at that could make sense for acquiring or building internally to build on the portfolio for cross-selling opportunities?

你們是否正在尋找一些對於收購或內部建立以建立交叉銷售機會的投資組合有意義的東西？

We look for I mean sometimes we can bring some clients and try to bring the P&L of the company out there. And sometimes we are only looking for kind of the acquihire to bring some new talents and to bring the product that could complement our ecosystem.

我們尋找我的意思是有時我們可以帶來一些客戶並嘗試將公司的損益錶帶出來。有時我們只是在尋找某種收購人員來帶來一些新人才並帶來可以補充我們生態系統的產品。

So those are the two rationales that you have here. One is more related to the economics of the company we are looking to acquire. The other one is more related to the knowledge and to the talent that this company could bring to us.

這就是你在這裡的兩個理由。其中之一與我們希望收購的公司的經濟狀況更相關。另一個更與這家公司可以帶給我們的知識和人才有關。

If you look at the history of the company, we have some acquisitions in the past years, most of them related to the second vertical, I'd say, more related to the products. We keep looking to that.

如果你看看公司的歷史，我們在過去幾年進行了一些收購，其中大部分與第二垂直領域相關，我想說，更多與產品相關。我們一直在關注這一點。

What is the type of start-up or companies that could bring new features and speed up or time to market, but there's nothing that we can give more information on this call at this point. I mean, we keep working on. We have our own proprietary M&A team, but there's nothing new at this point, to be honest.

哪些類型的新創公司或公司可以帶來新功能並加快或縮短上市時間，但目前我們無法就此次電話會議提供更多資訊。我的意思是，我們繼續努力。我們有自己的專有併購團隊，但說實話，目前並沒有什麼新鮮事。

Okay. Thanks so much.

好的。非常感謝。

Yes.

是的。

Gustavo Schroden, Bradesco BBI.

古斯塔沃·施羅登，布拉德斯科 BBI。

Hi, good afternoon, everybody, and thanks for taking my my question. Sorry to insist in this LMEC economics, but I think it is very, very important. It is -- my question here is, would it be correct to assume that these marginal TPV that you are including in the LMEC, is it still or hasn't reached the breakeven. I'm asking this because we have all these positive news on the TPV in the quarter.

大家下午好，感謝您提出我的問題。很抱歉堅持 LMEC 經濟學，但我認為這是非常非常重要的。我的問題是，假設您納入 LMEC 的這些邊際 TPV 是否仍然或尚未達到損益平衡，是否正確。我問這個問題是因為我們在本季度收到了關於冠捷的所有積極消息。

But the pretax earnings were stable, and you already explained that there is -- there was some pressure on the operating expenses side. You already mentioned that the take rate is below the average below the other products.

但稅前收益穩定，您已經解釋過，營運費用方面存在一些壓力。您已經提到，採用率低於其他產品的平均值。

So my question is, would it be correct to assume that it is -- you are still ramping up in this segment and maybe the operating leverage will come in the coming quarters? Or is it was just one quarter with some specific investments and is -- I mean, that would be like a nonrecurring, let's say, let's put in this words, a weaker quarter for the LMEC. Thank you.

所以我的問題是，這樣的假設是否正確——你們仍在這一領域加大力度，也許營運槓桿將在未來幾季出現？或者這只是一個有一些特定投資的季度，我的意思是，這就像一個非經常性的，讓我們說，讓我們用這樣的話來說，LMEC 的一個較弱的季度。謝謝。

Gustavo, the LMEC, they are profitable, they are positive. The company doesn't have any policy here to buy market share or just to get TPV, increase our market share and not to make margins from this specific TPV. Remember, our large merchants start with BRL1 million in cards. So it's not, sometimes you say large merchants, people think that we are talking about the Walmarts in Brazil.

Gustavo，LMEC，他們是盈利的，他們是積極的。該公司沒有任何政策來購買市場份額或只是為了獲得 TPV、增加我們的市場份額，而不是從這個特定的 TPV 中賺取利潤。請記住，我們的大型商家的卡片起始金額為 100 萬雷亞爾。所以，有時你說大商家，人們認為我們在談論巴西的沃爾瑪。

So they are not. BRL1 million per month in LMEC. They are positive. We're looking for clients that they have positive margins. In the LMEC, we also have e-commerce, and we also have cross-border. So it's not only larger merchants.

所以他們不是。LMEC 每月 100 萬雷亞爾。他們是積極的。我們正在尋找具有正利潤的客戶。在LMEC，我們也有電子商務，我們也有跨境。所以不只是規模較大的商家。

Indeed, the margins of these clients, they are smaller than MSMBs as a percentage. But if you look at in absolute terms and absolute figures, as they have higher volume, it is accretive to the bottom line. And it is a good business at the end of the day.

事實上，這些客戶的利潤率比中小型企業還要小。但如果你從絕對值和絕對數字來看，因為它們的交易量更大，所以它會增加利潤。歸根究底，這是一筆好生意。

When you think -- when you grow 50% year over year in a profitable way, it's a very strong growth and healthy growth, I would say. Also, these merchants, they also bring deposits because, again, when I said that larger merchants could not bring deposits, I'm talking about the Walmarts in Brazil.

當你想——當你以盈利的方式同比增長 50% 時，我會說，這是一個非常強勁的增長和健康的增長。另外，這些商家也帶來存款，因為當我說大型商家不能帶來存款時，我指的是巴西的沃爾瑪。

They have their own banking solutions out there. But when you think about the merchants that is BRL1 million in cards, we are very competitive for these clients. We have higher CDs and other options that can use as an account to them.

他們有自己的銀行解決方案。但當你想到信用卡金額達 100 萬雷亞爾的商家時，我們對這些客戶的競爭力非常強。我們有更高的 CD 和其他選項可以用作他們的帳戶。

So when you think of the mix and the client is in the whole portfolio, not only the acquiring but also the banking, your cost of funding and so on, they are positive, and they help us our deposits. And yes, so that's why we do think it's going to grow. It keeps growing, and it's a good business at the end of the day.

因此，當你考慮到整個投資組合中的組合時，客戶不僅包括收購，還包括銀行業務、融資成本等，它們是積極的，並有助於我們的存款。是的，這就是我們確實認為它會成長的原因。它不斷增長，最終成為一筆好生意。

If you could grow more in both segments, of course, we'll grow. But to think we grew 28% in MSMBs, it's very strong growth as well. It's not that we are only focused on LMEC. Both segments are growing in a very strong way, I would say, and they are both profitable.

如果你能在這兩個領域都取得更大的成長，我們當然也會成長。但想想我們的中小型企業成長了 28%，這也是非常強勁的成長。這並不是說我們只關注 LMEC。我想說，這兩個細分市場都在以非常強勁的方式成長，而且都是獲利的。

And if I may, the second question is related to your deposits and also your credit portfolio. As you mentioned, indeed, your deposits, it is growing very fast. But when we analyze the loan-to-deposit ratio is around 8%, so below 10%.

如果可以的話，第二個問題與您的存款和信貸投資組合有關。正如您所提到的，您的存款確實成長得非常快。但我們分析貸存比在8%左右，低於10%。

And you mentioned that while we should expect some acceleration in the loan portfolio in the coming quarters. But what is the reasonable target here in terms of a loan-to-deposit ratio? I'm asking this because it is very important to monetize and to improve the profitability of the whole business, right? So what would be a fair launch deposit ratio that we could forecast? Thank you.

您提到，雖然我們應該預期未來幾季貸款組合會有所加速。但貸存比的合理目標是多少呢？我問這個問題是因為貨幣化和提高整個業務的獲利能力非常重要，對嗎？那麼我們可以預測的公平啟動存款比率是多少呢？謝謝。

Gustavo, we don't have a specific number to these guys to you or to give this you because remember, we also use deposits for the prepayment. So in a daily basis, we look at the best capital allocation also to support our prepayments because sometimes we should go to refactoring with the banks, and sometimes we do use our own deposits.

古斯塔沃，我們沒有這些人的具體號碼給您，也沒有給您這個號碼，因為請記住，我們也使用押金來預付款。因此，我們每天都會尋找最佳的資本配置來支持我們的預付款，因為有時我們應該與銀行一起重構，有時我們確實會使用自己的存款。

So we don't have a guidance to give to you about the loan-to-deposit ratio. But I mean, at the end of the day, it's very good news that deposits are growing in this space and 87% year over year is a very strong growth. And it helps the company as a whole.

因此，我們無法向您提供有關貸存比率的指導。但我的意思是，歸根結底，這個領域的存款正在成長，而且比去年同期 87% 是一個非常強勁的成長，這是一個非常好的消息。這對整個公司都有幫助。

We can use these deposits for the credit business or for the prepayments in the acquiring. So I mean, I don't have here specific loan duration to give to you at this point. And just to complement the first question that you asked about the earnings before taxes, we took the conscious decision to invest in the growth of the company because we knew that we could have higher operating expenses and still grow the bottom line. So that's why we invested more in operating expenses in Q2 in order to keep the growth, keep supporting this growth.

我們可以將這些存款用於信貸業務或收購中的預付款。所以我的意思是，目前我沒有具體的貸款期限可以給你。為了補充您提出的有關稅前收益的第一個問題，我們有意識地決定投資於公司的成長，因為我們知道我們可能會承擔更高的營運費用，但仍然會增加利潤。這就是為什麼我們在第二季增加了營運費用投資，以保持成長，繼續支持這種成長。

And as I said before, in key metrics, we are growing much, much more than the market, 34% TPV, 19% revenues and so on. So that's why we knew that would have this efficiency in tax rate and then we reinvested part of that in the growth of the company.

正如我之前所說，在關鍵指標上，我們的成長遠超過市場，TPV 為 34%，營收為 19% 等等。這就是為什麼我們知道稅率會有這種效率，然後我們將其中的一部分再投資於公司的成長。

Okay. Thank you very clear.

好的。謝謝你說得很清楚。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Daniel Vaz, Safra.

丹尼爾·瓦茲，薩弗拉。

So hi, everyone. Congrats on the results again. And thank you for the Q&A. I think most of the questions have been answered. I wanted to touch base on your credit. I know you're rolling out working capital loans and overdraft.

大家好。再次恭喜結果。感謝您的問答。我想大部分問題已經得到解答。我想了解一下你的信用。我知道你們正在推出營運資金貸款和透支。

And when I look at your current credit portfolio, it's still disconnected to your payment strategy. So you're moving up from long tail and individuals to SMBs and large merchants. So trying to pick up your brains for the long term here. How this credit portfolio look like in the future, right?

當我查看您目前的信貸組合時，它仍然與您的付款策略脫節。因此，您正在從長尾和個人升級為中小型企業和大型商家。因此，請嘗試從長遠來看，集中精力。這個信貸組合未來會是什麼樣子，對嗎？

So do you expect retail loans to be a smaller portion as you grow further in wholesale? So I mean any breakdown or any color you would pass to us, it would be very helpful to try to forecast for the next years your wholesale and retail portfolio here?

那麼，隨著批發業務的進一步成長，您是否預期零售貸款所佔的比例會更小？所以我的意思是您將傳遞給我們的任何細分或任何顏色，嘗試預測您未來幾年的批發和零售投資組合將非常有幫助？

Daniel. Looking forward, we expect this credit portfolio to be more balanced because it is pretty much focused on the payroll and also credit cards. But it just started working capital again and overdraft as well. Overdraft, we are offering not only for consumers but also to merchants.

丹尼爾.展望未來，我們預期這個信貸投資組合將更加平衡，因為它主要關注薪資和信用卡。但它剛剛再次開始營運資金並透支。透支，我們不僅為消費者提供，也為商家提供。

So looking forward, we do expect this to be more balanced with more credit portfolio based on consumers and also in merchants, merchants from different sizes. Of course, it depends on how it will evolve in the following quarters, the acceptation of our offers, NPLs and so on.

因此，展望未來，我們確實預期這種情況會更加平衡，更多基於消費者以及不同規模的商家的信貸投資組合。當然，這取決於接下來幾季如何發展，我們的報價接受情況、不良貸款等等。

At the end of the day, we are looking for credit margins, not only NPLs, of course, but it's going to depend how it's going to evolve in the following quarters. But to give, let's say, a big guidance here will be to have a more balanced credit portfolio with merchants and consumers and merchants from different sites using different products.

歸根結底，我們正在尋找信貸利潤率，當然不僅僅是不良貸款，但這將取決於接下來幾季的發展。但可以說，這裡的一個重要指導是，與來自不同站點、使用不同產品的商家、消費者和商家建立更平衡的信貸組合。

We just launched the working capital and overdraft in last month, two baby steps. But following quarters, probably, we're going to have more color to give on that. But it's a huge opportunity at the end of the day.

我們上個月剛啟動了營運資金和透支，這只是兩個小步驟。但接下來的幾個季度，我們可能會對此有更多的闡述。但歸根結底，這是一個巨大的機會。

If you look at -- we have -- we're going to have this year, if you look at the guidance of around BRL500 billion in TPV and the credit portfolio is only BRL3 billion. So it's a huge opportunity. We just need to find the right offer and the way that we work with our merchants in order to increase the credit portfolio for the merchants as well.

如果你看看——我們已經——我們今年將會有，如果你看看 TPV 大約 5000 億雷亞爾的指導，而信貸投資組合只有 30 億雷亞爾。所以這是一個巨大的機會。我們只需要找到合適的報價以及與商家合作的方式，以增加商家的信貸組合。

Okay. If I may, a quick follow-up on the LMEC. When do you expect this to convert to similar growth rates to MSMBs? I mean, are you still seeing opportunities for further penetration way higher than the MSMBs that we are seeing right now?

好的。如果可以的話，請快速跟進 LMEC。您預計何時會達到與中小型企業類似的成長率？我的意思是，您是否仍然看到比我們現在看到的中小型企業進一步滲透的機會？

This is Alexandre speaking. We still see room for growth and fast growth on LMEC segment since a big portion of this segment is related to e-commerce and cross-border, which are card-not-present transactions. And our first fair share in card-not-present transactions is much lower than our fair share on card-present transactions. So we still have room to grow in this segment. And even though the margins are smaller, they provide good margins for us and accretive profit on this segment.

我是亞歷山大。我們仍然看到 LMEC 領域的成長空間和快速成長，因為該領域的很大一部分與電子商務和跨境相關，即無卡交易。我們在無卡交易中的第一公平份額遠低於我們在有卡交易中的公平份額。所以我們在這個領域仍然有成長的空間。儘管利潤率較小，但它們為我們提供了良好的利潤率並為該細分市場帶來了增值。

But obviously, MSMB segment is our core, and we keep invest in the growth of this segment, and that's why we are growing MSMB 28%, which is much higher than the market growth.

但顯然，MSMB 細分市場是我們的核心，我們持續投資於該細分市場的成長，這就是為什麼我們的 MSMB 成長了 28%，遠高於市場成長。

Perfect. Thank you again and congrats again, guys.

完美的。再次感謝你們，再次恭喜你們。

Gabriel Gusan, Citi.

加布里埃爾古桑，花旗銀行。

My question is about CapEx. It is running above the higher end of your guidance at BRL2.4 billion annualized. And my question is more on the qualitative side. Should the business continue to require the same over BRL2 billion per year in CapEx going forward now that you have less micro-merchants or are you investing less in that segment. You're going more into LMEC. So over time, we should expect that line to be nominally reduced?

我的問題是關於資本支出的。它的運行速度高於您的指導上限（年化 24 億雷亞爾）。我的問題更多的是定性方面。既然您的微型商家數量減少了，或者您在該領域的投資減少了，那麼您是否應該繼續要求每年超過 20 億雷亞爾的資本支出？您將更多地關注 LMEC。那麼隨著時間的推移，我們應該預期這條線名義上會減少嗎？

It's Artur speaking. Thank you for your question. Related to the investments that we are doing since -- or over the past four years, we achieved at the same level on average, BRL2 billion per year. Part of these investments are not related to POS, as we always mentioned, the majority of the investments or more than 50% is related to technology, our products, services features that we launch, new products and -- to our clients and that the remaining portion is related to POS.

說話的是阿圖爾。謝謝你的提問。與我們自此以來或過去四年所做的投資相關，我們平均實現了每年 20 億雷亞爾的相同水準。這些投資的一部分與 POS 無關，正如我們一直提到的，大部分投資或超過 50% 與技術、我們的產品、我們推出的服務功能、新產品以及我們的客戶以及剩餘部分與POS相關。

For this year or the first half of this year, we anticipated purchases of POSs, increasing the coverage ratio. It is totally aligned to our strategic plan for the year. That means in the coming quarters, we will reduce, in nominal terms, the investments that we are doing to achieve the CapEx that we remain stable since the beginning of the year from BRL2 billion to BRL2.2 billion in this year.

今年或今年上半年，我們預計會購買POS，提高覆蓋率。這與我們今年的戰略計劃完全一致。這意味著在未來幾個季度，我們將減少名義上的投資，以實現今年年初以來保持穩定的資本支出，從 20 億雷亞爾減少到今年的 22 億雷亞爾。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous Research.

雷納托·梅洛尼，自主研究。

Thanks for taking my questions here, too. So for my first question, I wanted to focus again on profitability. I'm looking here as gross profit as a percentage of TPV, which had been stable in line to your previous comments, but we saw 11 bps decline this quarter. So my question here is, was this also related to LMEC or if there's other elements here? And then looking into the second half, do you still expect some compression here given the growth in the segment?

也感謝您在這裡提出我的問題。因此，對於第一個問題，我想再次關注盈利能力。我在這裡查看的是毛利佔 TPV 的百分比，該百分比與您之前的評論一致，但我們看到本季度下降了 11 個基點。所以我的問題是，這是否也與 LMEC 有關，或者這裡是否有其他元素？然後展望下半年，考慮到該細分市場的成長，您是否仍預期會出現一些壓縮？

And if you allow me for a second question, I wanted to focus on your cost of funding for deposits. And going back to your remarks, during the call when you said you were exploring some alternatives to reduce costs here. So if you could expand on those comments and maybe if there is a target of, as a percentage of CDI, where you're trying to get there. Thank you.

如果您允許我問第二個問題，我想專注於您的存款融資成本。回到你的言論，在電話會議中你說你正在探索一些替代方案來降低成本。因此，您是否可以擴展這些評論，也許是否有一個目標（以 CDI 的百分比形式），您試圖實現這一目標。謝謝。

Well, I'll start with the first part, and then I'll move on to that. LMEC may pressure a little bit down, the percentage of gross profit over TPV and there is also the mix of products that we have seen in all segments, not only in LMEC, but also in MSMB segment, the growth of some of the products such as PIX, PIX QR Code, P2M.

好吧，我將從第一部分開始，然後繼續。LMEC可能會有點壓力，毛利率相對TPV的百分比，還有我們在所有細分市場都看到的產品組合，不僅在LMEC，而且在MSMB細分市場，一些產品的增長，例如如PIX、PIX 二維碼、P2M。

And just to complement here, I mean we cannot overlook the genetic rate, gross profit as the only drivers for the company's profitability. There are many other cost expenses in the P&L that we need to manage, such as financial costs, which is one of your questions.

在這裡補充一下，我的意思是我們不能忽視基因率、毛利作為公司獲利能力的唯一驅動因素。損益表中還有許多其他成本費用需要我們管理，例如財務成本，這是您的問題之一。

So I mean, at the end of the day, there are several drivers that could impact the kinetic rate gross profit and so on. But we are here reinforce in our guidance because we are confident that we can manage the company. We keep growing in a sustainable way, looking for the future, not only for the specific quarter, building a sustainable business, bringing new clients, thousands of clients, hundreds of thousands of clients.

所以我的意思是，歸根結底，有幾個驅動因素可能會影響動態毛利率等。但我們在這裡加強我們的指導，因為我們有信心管理公司。我們以永續的方式不斷成長，展望未來，而不僅僅是特定的季度，建立永續的業務，帶來新客戶、成千上萬的客戶、數十萬的客戶。

And so that's why we keep growing pretty strong in the top line, and it's still reinforcing the guidance. Just not to keep focus on only one metric because, at the end of the day, there are many moving parts and many movements and actions that we could take in the company to keep the profitability of the company as a whole.

這就是為什麼我們的營收保持強勁成長，並且仍在強化指導。只是不要只專注於一個指標，因為歸根結底，我們可以在公司中採取許多活動部件以及許多動作和行動來保持公司整體的盈利能力。

Artur speaking, I will talk about the target of funding costs that we have. There is no specific target that I can provide to you at a certain level that we would like to have in terms of cost versus CDI. But we are always looking for opportunities to reduce as much as possible the cost that we have based on the strategy that we also have, sometimes we pay higher yields to some clients to attract them to the company and then cross-sell other products. And we have a rationale behind that.

阿圖爾先生，我將談談我們的融資成本目標。我無法向您提供我們希望在成本與 CDI 方面達到的特定水平的具體目標。但我們一直在尋找機會，根據我們現有的策略，盡可能降低我們的成本，有時我們會向一些客戶支付更高的收益，以吸引他們加入公司，然後交叉銷售其他產品。我們有一個理由。

And what we are doing as much as possible to diversify the funding sources that we have. We would like not to depend on one bucket to take money from the market, but we identify many lines, many different third-party providers that we can use, and we are doing that as time goes by.

我們正在盡可能地使我們擁有的資金來源多樣化。我們不想依賴某一桶從市場上獲取資金，但我們確定了許多可以使用的產品線、許多不同的第三方供應商，隨著時間的推移，我們正在這樣做。

Understood. Thanks, everyone.

明白了。謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。

William Tang, Susquehanna International Group.

William Tang，薩斯奎哈納國際集團。

Good results here. I just had a quick question on slide 8. I was looking at your merchant count. And it looks like your active merchants are falling, but I think that's largely due to the offboarding of nano-merchants. Is that right? And then if so, what's a good way to think about your gross or net adds at the MSMB level? Can you help us there? Thank you.

這裡有好的結果。我剛剛對幻燈片 8 有一個簡短的問題。我在看你的商人數量。看起來你們的活躍商家正在下降，但我認為這很大程度上是由於奈米商家的退出。是這樣嗎？如果是這樣，那麼考慮 MSMB 層面的總增加或淨增加的好方法是什麼？你能在那裡幫助我們嗎？謝謝。

Thank you for the question. You're right in your -- in your conclusion. If you look at slide 8 in the graph in the bottom right, you're going to see that the -- excluding nano-merchants, we grew 4% year over year. And even if you look at the bottom left that you said that the merchants are going down, but it's slowing down. This decrease is lower and lower.

謝謝你的提問。你的結論是對的。如果你看一下右下角圖表中的幻燈片 8，你會發現——不包括奈米商人，我們比去年同期成長了 4%。即使你看左下角，你說商家正在減少，但它正在放緩。這個下降幅度越來越低。

So it used to be like 100,000, 150,000 one year ago and today it is around 40,000. So it's kind of stabilizing the sales -- the number of active merchants. The loss is more related to nano-merchants as you said in your question.

一年前是10萬、15萬，現在是4萬左右。所以這在某種程度上穩定了銷售——活躍商家的數量。正如您在問題中所說，損失更多地與奈米商人有關。

And to be honest, of course, we look for active merchants, but the main focus here is to bring merchants with decent volumes of TPV in such a way that they could be profitable very soon. I mean, the payback in terms of subsidies of the POS and so on, they can be profitable very soon.

老實說，我們當然尋找活躍的商家，但這裡的主要重點是為商家帶來可觀的 TPV 數量，以便他們很快就能獲利。我的意思是，透過 POS 補貼等方面的回報，他們很快就能獲利。

So that's why we look at the -- This slide, we see the TPV per merchant grew 42% year over year because. We're bringing merchants that they activate more, they use more and so on. But yes, going back to your question, if you do not consider nano-merchants, we grew 4% in our base and it is kind of stable. If you look at the numbers of merchants, the active merchants, it's kind of stable.

這就是為什麼我們看這張投影片，我們看到每個商家的 TPV 年比增加了 42%，因為。我們為商家帶來了更多的活化、更多的使用等等。但是，是的，回到你的問題，如果你不考慮奈米商人，我們的基數成長了 4%，而且是穩定的。如果你看一下商家的數量，活躍商家的數量，它是穩定的。

That's perfect. Thank you.

那很完美。謝謝。

Thank you. That's all the questions we have for today.

謝謝。這就是我們今天要問的所有問題。

I will now pass the line back to Artur for his closing remarks. Mr. Artur, you may proceed.

現在我將把話轉回給阿圖爾，讓他作結束語。阿圖爾先生，您可以繼續了。

Before we end the call, I would like to inform you of our recent change within our company's Investor Relations team. Éric Oliveira has accepted a new position in the company. In this new role, he will lead the team focused on banking growth initiatives, which is a key element of our strategy. We would like to sincerely thank Éric for his dedication and invaluable contributions during his tenure in our IR team.

在結束通話之前，我想通知您我們公司投資者關係團隊最近的變化。Áric Oliveira 已接受公司的新職位。在這個新職位上，他將領導團隊專注於銀行業成長計劃，這是我們策略的關鍵要素。我們衷心感謝 Áric 在我們 IR 團隊任職期間的奉獻精神和寶貴貢獻。

Where, among many milestones, he enhanced our communication and engagement with our investor community. Éric, thank you very much for all the support and results we achieved together. And I wish you the best in the new challenge.

在許多里程碑中，他加強了我們與投資者社群的溝通和參與。Áric，非常感謝您的所有支持和我們共同取得的成果。我祝福你在新的挑戰中一切順利。

In light of this transition, I am pleased to announce that Gustavo Sechin is joining our team on August 26 as the new Head of Investor Relations, ESG, Market Intelligence and economy. Gustavo brings his extensive experience in investor relations and finance positions. His last position was as CFO of subsidiaries at Santander Brasil. Before that, he was CFO and CRO at Getnet and has led the proprietary M&A team in Brazil.

鑑於這一轉變，我很高興地宣布 Gustavo Sechin 將於 8 月 26 日加入我們的團隊，擔任新任投資者關係、ESG、市場情報和經濟主管。古斯塔沃帶來了他在投資者關係和財務職位方面的豐富經驗。他的最後一個職位是擔任巴西桑坦德銀行子公司的財務長。在此之前，他曾擔任 Getnet 的財務長和首席風險官，並領導巴西的專有併購團隊。

He has got a long journey in the financial market, including equity research for Banco Votorantim and Investor Relations of ABN Amro Bank. Gustavo completed an MBA in Finance from FGV and graduated in accounting from the University of São Paulo.

他在金融市場經歷了漫長的旅程，包括 Banco Votorantim 的股票研究和荷蘭銀行的投資者關係。Gustavo 獲得了 FGV 金融 MBA 學位，並畢業於聖保羅大學會計。

I am confident that Gustavo will continue to uphold our commitment to transparency, effective communication and a strong relationship with our valued investors and analysts. Éric and Gustavo will work together for a while to make a smooth transition.

我相信古斯塔沃將繼續恪守我們對透明度、有效溝通以及與我們尊貴的投資者和分析師建立牢固關係的承諾。埃里克和古斯塔沃將共同工作一段時間，以實現平穩過渡。

Please do not hesitate to reach out to Éric, Gustavo and I, if you have any questions. Gustavo, welcome to PAGS team, and thank you for engaging in our proposal of making the financial life of individuals and businesses easier.

如果您有任何疑問，請隨時聯絡 Áric、Gustavo 和我。Gustavo，歡迎加入 PAGS 團隊，感謝您參與我們關於讓個人和企業的財務生活更輕鬆的提案。

Thank you all for participating in our second quarter 2024 earnings call, and we look forward to meeting you in our next call.

感謝大家參加我們的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議，我們期待在下次電話會議中與您見面。

This does conclude PagSeguro Digital's conference call. We thank you for your participation, and wish you a very good evening.

PagSeguro Digital 的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與，並祝您有個美好的夜晚。